Post by: narhiril on May 08, 2011, 12:56:09 am
(http://i.imgur.com/PThtIHh.png)
(LFR)
(LFR)
A major Dwarf Fortress expansion modification for DF 0.34.11 by narhiril. Now with ASCII!!! :)
(http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/7919/lfrlizardmen.png)
(http://img545.imageshack.us/img545/9716/lfrmeowkin.png)
You (the dwarves) are not the first people to walk the earth. You are not the largest, not the strongest, not the most advanced or intellegent, and certainly not the most prosperous. What becomes of your race is your doing - will you thrive or will you split into warring sects? Will you make peace with your neighbors or be destroyed by them? Will you adapt and invent, or will you fall behind? Will your people learn from the mistakes of past civilizations, some far more advanced than your own, or will you be doomed to repeat them? Uncover their legends. Discern their secrets. Strike the earth, but be prepared for the earth to strike back.
Spoiler: The LFR Design Manifesto (click to show/hide)
DOWNLOADS
LFR 0.21a Pre-Installed Ironhand Graphics Version (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=4242)
LFR 0.21a Pre-Installed ASCII Version (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=7620)
Current version: 0.21a
Legacy version (v0.19c raws only for DF v0.34.11) (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=4230)
Legacy version (v0.15a for DF v0.31.25) (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=5529)
0.21a released on 12/2/2013. As this was a very large update, the next version will deal with any issues that come up.
What does this mod do?
LFR turns the world of Dwarf Fortress into a living, breathing high fantasy universe without sacrificing the randomness and spirit that makes Dwarf Fortress what it is. LFR fixes issues with vanilla DF, performs significantly better, and overwrites only a tiny fraction of the original raws in doing so. So what does LFR add to the game? I'm so glad you asked...
-The bog trolls, a divided race of individual warlords and followers that inhabit the swamps and seek to win individual power and recognition.
-The nephilim, a winged race of angelic humanoids who believe that they have been cast out from paradise as punishment for allowing the lesser races to endure.
-The lizardmen, a tribal race of aquatic bipedals that are extremely xenophobic.
-The voidwalkers, an insectoid mystery race with technology and materials that will challenge even the most established fortresses.
-The meowkin, a trading race of cat people with questionable morals and a bizarre fashion sense.
-The shedim, a race of wrinkled beasts that devour the flesh of other races to survive.
-The moroii, a race of underground tribal people that cling to the relics of a long forgotten civilization.
-The grum, a long-nosed race of blind underground miners who do not welcome other races into their domain.
Every race has its own nobility structure, its own lore files, its own language, its own military technology, and its own graphics. The shedim have caste-level graphics.
-Mithril, a rare, dwarf-exclusive lighter counterpart to steel that must be refined in order to be used. Mithril does not require flux.
-Vanadium, an economic metal used in the production of goods and high-strength alloys.
-Damascus steel, an alloy of steel and vanadium for superior strength and performance.
-White gold, an economic alloy of gold and nickel.
-Voidshard, an unusual, very powerful metal that must be taken (by force) from the race that carries it.
-Ether, a light, very high strength weapons material that can only be acquired through alchemy experiments. More on that later.
-Tungsten, a magma-safe weapon material of higher density than silver.
-Iovium, a rare, super-heavy, super-dense weapons material. The adamantine of blunt weapons.
-A few other economic metals (cobalt, palladium, neodymium) used in higher level technical advancements. Which bring me to the next feature...
LFR introduces technical progression into Dwarf Fortress. When you embark, you can build all of the buildings you always could, but some other ones - and the special reactions they allow for - must be unlocked. LFR has two branches of progression - The "mechanical" tree and the "ritual" tree.
The mechanical tree follows dwarven alchemists and scientists as they make new discoveries, create new materials, improve old designs, and ultimately, create mechanical creatures. The tree has a very mad scientist/steampunk theme to it. The mechanical tree is structured vertically, with each advancement leading into the next advancement, from the humble beginnings of the dwarves in the Alchemy Labs to the cutting edge weapon and technologies of the Prototype Workbench and Mechanized Defense Laboratory. The mechanical tree currently has four "tiers" of advancement. Some possible products of this tech tree...
-Hybrid melee/ranged weapons.
-Engraving weapons and ammunition with runes, giving them magical effects
-Advanced forms of armor.
-Experimental weapons, of which there are over seventy new types - many with special attacks for the combat logs!
-Training workshops for martial, survival, and medical skills.
-New uses for existing materials - for example, the ability to make bins out of stone or cheese from plants.
-New materials, like ether (metal) and hadrine, a super-heavy material.
-Lab accidents, making research a bit more !!FUN!!
The ritual tree follows dwarven mystics and priests from their beginnings, offering prayers to a stone altar in the hope of earning some sort of favor, to the establishment of a pantheon and themed temples to various deities. The ritual tree is structured more horizontally than the mechanical tree, with higher level buildings simply requiring a larger resource investment. The ritual tree currently has three "tiers" of advancement, with a fourth in the works. Some possible products of this tech tree...
-Unorthodox ways of producing resources via ritual - i.e. exchanging plants or bones for weapons and armor.
-Prayers - reactions that slowly generate specific resources while staffed.
-A few new types of weapons, armor, trap components, and other surprises - like fireproof backpacks.
-Gods' favor, allowing dwarves to transform into units that borrow power from their god's sphere of influence.
-Combo abilities between units from different gods - i.e. a unit of Pharis (goddess of darkness) and a unit of Kerox (goddess of earth) can team up to provide nearby dwarves with a resistance to voidshard weapons.
LFR seamlessly integrates the procedurally-generated local deities (the "New Gods") with its own static pantheon (the "Old Gods," including Armok).
-New megabeasts, like the wyvern (flying dragon), ice-breathing dragons, manticores, behemoths, aatxes, and more!
-Creatures with unusual abilities, like the jagged crystal dragon, which fires crystal projectiles in bursts, or the rakshasa, which creates illusionary copies of itself in combat.
-New and terrifying natural threats, like the deep wolf, a creature that attacks in enormous swarms, and the damascus sentinel, a mechanical construct of an ancient civilization long since gone from the world.
-New friendly creatures, like the bronze-shelled tortoise, a harmless above-ground creature that is a breeding source of shells, the sabre-toothed tiger and pygmy ankylosaur, two new war animals, and the carbuncle, a domestic creature with a lot of surprises to discover - which brings up one more of LFR's most prominent features...
EVERY LFR creature has a unique graphic.
-New plants, alcohols, and food types.
-Many, many easter eggs.
-Rare creatures and rare creature drops.
-Ancient underground ruins.
-Mythical weapons, which grant the user buffs, abilities, or even curses!
-New symbols, inscriptions, secrets, curses, and weather types.
-Silly hats.
-What you encounter in one fortress will not be the same as what you encounter next time!
LFR also include a manual, guides, and resources to help you navigate the brave new world you're entering. This is just a taste of the included features. If you want to learn more, you'll have to learn it yourself. LFR is there to be discovered, not revealed. Also, as I am very much obsessive-compulsive, expect frequent posts and updates until/unless otherwise stated.
While preliminary bug testing has been done to the best of my ability, some bugs or quirks are to be expected. Please report these to this forum thread, or contact me by email (provided in the manual).
It is strongly advised that you use a high or very high mineral distribution setting with this mod, as rare metals were balanced for this setting before the option to reduce mineral distribution existed. For those of you using advanced world generation, set "mineral scarcity" to a value between 100 (very frequent) and 300 (a bit less frequent) for best results.
New Races
-The bog trolls, a divided race of individual warlords and followers that inhabit the swamps and seek to win individual power and recognition.
-The nephilim, a winged race of angelic humanoids who believe that they have been cast out from paradise as punishment for allowing the lesser races to endure.
-The lizardmen, a tribal race of aquatic bipedals that are extremely xenophobic.
-The voidwalkers, an insectoid mystery race with technology and materials that will challenge even the most established fortresses.
-The meowkin, a trading race of cat people with questionable morals and a bizarre fashion sense.
-The shedim, a race of wrinkled beasts that devour the flesh of other races to survive.
-The moroii, a race of underground tribal people that cling to the relics of a long forgotten civilization.
-The grum, a long-nosed race of blind underground miners who do not welcome other races into their domain.
Every race has its own nobility structure, its own lore files, its own language, its own military technology, and its own graphics. The shedim have caste-level graphics.
New Metals
-Mithril, a rare, dwarf-exclusive lighter counterpart to steel that must be refined in order to be used. Mithril does not require flux.
-Vanadium, an economic metal used in the production of goods and high-strength alloys.
-Damascus steel, an alloy of steel and vanadium for superior strength and performance.
-White gold, an economic alloy of gold and nickel.
-Voidshard, an unusual, very powerful metal that must be taken (by force) from the race that carries it.
-Ether, a light, very high strength weapons material that can only be acquired through alchemy experiments. More on that later.
-Tungsten, a magma-safe weapon material of higher density than silver.
-Iovium, a rare, super-heavy, super-dense weapons material. The adamantine of blunt weapons.
-A few other economic metals (cobalt, palladium, neodymium) used in higher level technical advancements. Which bring me to the next feature...
The Mechanical Tree
LFR introduces technical progression into Dwarf Fortress. When you embark, you can build all of the buildings you always could, but some other ones - and the special reactions they allow for - must be unlocked. LFR has two branches of progression - The "mechanical" tree and the "ritual" tree.
The mechanical tree follows dwarven alchemists and scientists as they make new discoveries, create new materials, improve old designs, and ultimately, create mechanical creatures. The tree has a very mad scientist/steampunk theme to it. The mechanical tree is structured vertically, with each advancement leading into the next advancement, from the humble beginnings of the dwarves in the Alchemy Labs to the cutting edge weapon and technologies of the Prototype Workbench and Mechanized Defense Laboratory. The mechanical tree currently has four "tiers" of advancement. Some possible products of this tech tree...
-Hybrid melee/ranged weapons.
-Engraving weapons and ammunition with runes, giving them magical effects
-Advanced forms of armor.
-Experimental weapons, of which there are over seventy new types - many with special attacks for the combat logs!
-Training workshops for martial, survival, and medical skills.
-New uses for existing materials - for example, the ability to make bins out of stone or cheese from plants.
-New materials, like ether (metal) and hadrine, a super-heavy material.
-Lab accidents, making research a bit more !!FUN!!
The Ritual Tree
The ritual tree follows dwarven mystics and priests from their beginnings, offering prayers to a stone altar in the hope of earning some sort of favor, to the establishment of a pantheon and themed temples to various deities. The ritual tree is structured more horizontally than the mechanical tree, with higher level buildings simply requiring a larger resource investment. The ritual tree currently has three "tiers" of advancement, with a fourth in the works. Some possible products of this tech tree...
-Unorthodox ways of producing resources via ritual - i.e. exchanging plants or bones for weapons and armor.
-Prayers - reactions that slowly generate specific resources while staffed.
-A few new types of weapons, armor, trap components, and other surprises - like fireproof backpacks.
-Gods' favor, allowing dwarves to transform into units that borrow power from their god's sphere of influence.
-Combo abilities between units from different gods - i.e. a unit of Pharis (goddess of darkness) and a unit of Kerox (goddess of earth) can team up to provide nearby dwarves with a resistance to voidshard weapons.
LFR seamlessly integrates the procedurally-generated local deities (the "New Gods") with its own static pantheon (the "Old Gods," including Armok).
New Creatures
-New megabeasts, like the wyvern (flying dragon), ice-breathing dragons, manticores, behemoths, aatxes, and more!
-Creatures with unusual abilities, like the jagged crystal dragon, which fires crystal projectiles in bursts, or the rakshasa, which creates illusionary copies of itself in combat.
-New and terrifying natural threats, like the deep wolf, a creature that attacks in enormous swarms, and the damascus sentinel, a mechanical construct of an ancient civilization long since gone from the world.
-New friendly creatures, like the bronze-shelled tortoise, a harmless above-ground creature that is a breeding source of shells, the sabre-toothed tiger and pygmy ankylosaur, two new war animals, and the carbuncle, a domestic creature with a lot of surprises to discover - which brings up one more of LFR's most prominent features...
EVERY LFR creature has a unique graphic.
Hidden Features and More
-New plants, alcohols, and food types.
-Many, many easter eggs.
-Rare creatures and rare creature drops.
-Ancient underground ruins.
-Mythical weapons, which grant the user buffs, abilities, or even curses!
-New symbols, inscriptions, secrets, curses, and weather types.
-Silly hats.
-What you encounter in one fortress will not be the same as what you encounter next time!
LFR also include a manual, guides, and resources to help you navigate the brave new world you're entering. This is just a taste of the included features. If you want to learn more, you'll have to learn it yourself. LFR is there to be discovered, not revealed. Also, as I am very much obsessive-compulsive, expect frequent posts and updates until/unless otherwise stated.
Release Notes
While preliminary bug testing has been done to the best of my ability, some bugs or quirks are to be expected. Please report these to this forum thread, or contact me by email (provided in the manual).
It is strongly advised that you use a high or very high mineral distribution setting with this mod, as rare metals were balanced for this setting before the option to reduce mineral distribution existed. For those of you using advanced world generation, set "mineral scarcity" to a value between 100 (very frequent) and 300 (a bit less frequent) for best results.
Post by: narhiril on May 08, 2011, 12:57:08 am
CONFIRMED BUGS/ODDITIES:
Version numbers are weird, but this is intentional. I consider LFR to be a constant work in progress, and use the pre-1.0 version numbers to show this. You may see a version number like 0.19a and say to yourself, "oh, great, more pre-alpha garbage that is chock full of bugs and hasn't been refined at all," but you'd be wrong.
The errorlog will occasionally kick out an "Impoverished Word Selector" error in worlds with large numbers of civilizations. This has no noticeable effect on gameplay, and can be safely ignored or deleted.
The foundry is known to cause all of the stones that it can produce blocks from to be listed as economic stones by default. This is annoying, as you will have to manually change them back to mundane stones in the stone menu, but does not otherwise affect gameplay. There is currently no fix for this.
While not a bug, it is strongly advised that you use a high mineral distribution setting with this mod, as rare metals were balanced for this setting before the option to reduce mineral distribution existed. For advanced worldgen users, use a value between 100 and 300 for best results.
Sentinel drones don't behave properly in arena mode (arena allegiances override natural inclinations).
Specific brew reactions don't work properly, kicking out generic "drinks." I am working on a fix for this.
Orichalcum precision tools cannot be made at a magma-powered alchemy lab. This is fixed for the next release.
Attempting to view the thoughts and preferences of an emberlight warrior will usually crash the game. I am investigating this issue further.
Fear the void energy projector.
Post by: narhiril on May 08, 2011, 12:57:46 am
Currently outdated, stay tuned for new updates!
These raws are early renditions of planned features for LFR that I have not yet had time to thoroughly test, or that I would like to open up to in-depth feedback. It is recommended that you use a world without anything terribly important in it when testing any of these raws.
(3/31/12) This link has been updated to contain test raws for the shedim, a new entity. It is compatible with LFR v0.16b and v0.17a.
(12/28/11) This link has been updated to contain a test save file for new developments. LFR-SC can now be found at a more permanent link from the main post.
(11/12/11) This link has been updated for an 0.14e-compatible release.
(10/17/11) This link has been updated for an 0.14d-compatible version.
(10/1/11) This link now contains the first release of LFR's "simplified clothing" plug-in mod.
(7/11/11) - revised alpha version, removed problematic fire and ice castes, tweaked remaining castes (bugfixes).
(7/6/11) - uploaded "zingers" alpha raws by request.
----
Reserved for future developments.
Post by: Ult1mara on May 08, 2011, 04:27:24 am
Post by: narhiril on May 08, 2011, 07:32:05 am
Wait Narhiril is this the new Forgotten Realms Mod thread?
Yes. I wanted to get the poll fixed, and I was informed that the only way to do that was to start a new thread and set it to unlimited duration this time (something about the way SMF handles permissions). Rather than bother a moderator about something trivial like that, I just moved the main post over here. It seemed an opportune time to change the name of the mod, too, because I get way too many people asking me about DnD / expressing disappointment about a lack of DnD and then moving on without bothering to look at what actually is here. I kept the acronym, for convenience's sake.
Also, I put up a small bugfix this morning (v0.11c). Damascus sentinels (and their spoiler-related version) weren't showing up in the xml dumps of populations, so it took me some time to figure out what was wrong with them since the error log was blank. They should be fixed and spawning consistently now. I also decided to play around a little with sphere alignments, particularly with the dwarves. I got a legendary axe dwarf with the epithet "the bodice of crews." I didn't think that was very dwarfy (or intimidating, for that matter), so I've messed around with the permitted symbols for dwarven names. Rest assured, Urist is still in there, but some others might not be as familiar.
Also, I found that the number of ambushes was getting silly. It was at the point where a meowkin caravan would show up only to be attacked by no less than NINE simultaneous ambushes of lizardmen, bog trolls, nephilim, and goblins. I thought this was getting out of hand - I'm working on ways to cause a bit more fighting between lizardmen, bog trolls, and nephilim. I have some ideas, but need some time to test them.
Oh, and I wrote all of the raws for the Advanced Mechanics Workshop today. I need a break, I have three finals this week. After that, I can hammer out some more.
Post by: Stormcloudy on May 08, 2011, 02:30:21 pm
I would personally like more mysticism than mechanics in this mod, but maybe I just don't see dwarves as machinists.
Post by: Carn on May 09, 2011, 10:18:27 am
Post by: narhiril on May 09, 2011, 12:42:27 pm
Watching. Glorious. THIS is how DF should feel.
I would personally like more mysticism than mechanics in this mod, but maybe I just don't see dwarves as machinists.
I just want to say that I came back to play DF solely because of this mod, and the potential it has. Thank you.
I really appreciate it, guys. I really do take feedback seriously, and I am glad to know that the hours I have put into this are helping someone's experience.
---
In other news, I got a bit of time today to hammer out some new concepts (and even some raws) for some buildings and "tech advancements" that will come from the Advanced Mechanics Lab. Here's what I've got so far.
The Advanced Mechanics Workshop - requires precision tools to construct. Produces more precision tools and advanced mechanisms.
The first precision tools can be acquired either by...
1) Striking orichalcum (a new metal) and producing precision tools from it using a new reaction at the alchemy lab.
2) Salvaging a clockwork pendant from a damascus sentinel (also done at the alchemy lab).
Both of these reactions use the mechanics skill and neither of these reactions have hazardous byproducts or fuel requirements.
The Morgue - consumes corpses to train the diagnosis skill. Requires precision tools and advanced mechanisms to construct.
The Mechanical Sparring Partner - trains any weapon skill. Requires advanced mechanisms, a spear, and an armor stand to construct.
The Mechanical Obstacle Course - trains dodge and armor user. Requires several mechanisms and advanced mechanisms to construct.
The Medical Dummy - trains all medical skills except for diagnosis. Requires precision tools, any splint, and several advanced mechanisms to construct. Training wound dressing and suturing requires cloth and thread, but does not consume either.
The Crematorium - consumes a corpse or five vermin remains to create ash. This building is not linked or related to the tech tree. This is an idea that has been floating around the forums for a while, so I want to make sure I don't step on any toes or fail to give due credit before implementing it.
---
As always, feedback is encouraged. Also, I have not forgotten those of you who have expressed interest in mythical elements to the tech tree. This is by no means a complete list of future developments. I have some very fun, mythical-themed elements planned for these next few releases as well, but I don't want to give them away just yet.
Post by: Stormcloudy on May 09, 2011, 01:16:16 pm
I know it was supposed to be "Atlantean Copper", or somesuch like. Did that mean it was just an isotope thereof?
Post by: narhiril on May 09, 2011, 01:54:52 pm
I thought Orichalcum was an alloy?
I know it was supposed to be "Atlantean Copper", or somesuch like. Did that mean it was just an isotope thereof?
In real life, most scholars think it was the same thing as rose gold - a copper-gold alloy.
I wanted to add a new metal for the "tech tree," but I wanted it to be pretty rare. I haven't settled on a name yet. I would consider one of the rare earth metals, but I was having trouble justifying it in my head. It has to be something that could be made into "precision tools," which means it has to have some set of properties not already found on in-game metals in order for me to justify only being able to make precision tools out of it (at least, for the first set, and then the first set could be used to make more tools out of more mundane materials).
I was thinking if I use a mythological metal, I can superimpose any properties I want onto it. With adamantine and mithril already in use, orichalcum was the first name that came to mind. I'm open to other ideas, though.
Right now, it's an orange metal that appears infrequently in a few types of common stone. I can change the color and name without much difficulty or thought, but I'm pretty confident that I have it where I want it from a distribution standpoint (I want it to appear infrequently on every map).
Post by: narhiril on May 09, 2011, 10:49:46 pm
I am considering implementing more creatures with a "rare drop." That is, 9 out of 10 or even 49 out of 50 will die and leave corpses, as usual, but the occasional one will instead drop an item of some sort. This is possible and well within my ability to do using the caste system, but I am wondering how people feel about it. Should I reserve this sort of thing for the occasional easter egg, or would you like to see more of it? I don't want "farming" for drops to be necessary, because that's not particularly rewarding in my opinion, so these items will be purely fun in nature - perhaps in the form of a unique (but statistically unremarkable) weapon or armor/clothing item. I'm thinking these could be great fun for adventurers as well.
Oh, and I wrote the raws for the medical dummy earlier. Silly me, I should be studying. Oh well :)
Post by: Patchouli on May 10, 2011, 02:12:53 am
The only real problem is making sure that whatever has a "rare drop" isn't something that you can tame and breed, which is pretty easy to deal with, and making sure that it isn't in the realm of basically unobtainable because the chances are so low.
Post by: narhiril on May 10, 2011, 12:46:10 pm
As there seems to be a lot of distaste for the human language file, I'm moving the nephilim to Latin. I don't know who wrote the Latin language file that's been floating around (Reely didn't either), but if anyone has any idea, I'd like to include credit for it. I'm actually considering scrapping the human language altogether, as there are a number of other great language files floating around out there, but for now, I'm leaving it in.
The lizardmen have not been left out, either. I've got a special procedurally-generated language file for them based on the Basque language. That combined with some messing about with symbols leaves them with some pretty exotic names that I think you'll enjoy. .
I am leaving the bog trolls as is, because of their lore relation to the trolls of Goblin civilizations. It didn't seem unrealistic that they would use the same language, for names at least.
--
Two more finals for me. Then I can really kick 0.12 into high gear.
Post by: narhiril on May 11, 2011, 09:18:07 am
It had to be shared. I stumbled on this in legends mode today.
I'm still not sure why meowkin lads are being picked for that position, but I don't think I'll bother to try to fix it - that's kind of how the Meowkin roll anyway. They're the comic relief of a mod otherwise populated by terrifying dangers.
For the record, the Dwarven king's name was "Sakrith Steelecho." How BA is that?
--
Also, thank you Patchouli for the feedback. Your ideas and concerns seem to match up with what I was thinking. I will probably use an uncommon (but not extremely rare) cavern creature for the first implementation - this should assure that it will show up on just about any embark.
--
Last final is today. Expect some more updates/musings later in the afternoon. Right now I'm trying to get the populations of a spoiler-related creature right.
Post by: Stormcloudy on May 11, 2011, 11:51:05 am
Post by: narhiril on May 11, 2011, 01:36:49 pm
On Orichalcum again, maybe you could make it starmetal/thunderbolt/meteoric iron ? While Dwarves are more technologically advanced than almost everyone, I wouldn't think the meteoric deposits would be cashed yet. And of course, historically, meteoric iron was a highly prized resource for (usually more primitive) many societies.I appreciate the feedback, but there are some qualms I have about this idea.
I am hesitant to use meteoric iron because it's chemically the exact same thing as regular iron. Also, and probably more importantly, I had some plans for the distant future to use meteoric iron as another ore of iron that can be found in some unusual places.
Iron meteorites are thought to be the only source of a few rare elements on Earth (i.e. Iridium), but the properties of these metals don't really seem to make sense for making "precision tools." I mean, iridium is used in solar cells, but that's WAY beyond the level of tech advancement I want to create.
I have searched for names of other mythical metals with limited success. Names like vibranium and unobtanium came up, but I have discovered that most fictional metals are tied to specific fantasy or science fiction universes, which doesn't make them very attractive to me. If I do wind up creating a new, unique metal, I would prefer it to have a more unique name. Vibranium is used in Marvel comics, and unobtanium sounds stupid (I'm sorry James Cameron and material science theorists, but it really does).
I feel like the modding forum doesn't need any more variations of steel or iron. I included damascus steel because it's a real (but still somewhat mysterious) metal and it fills a space between steel and adamantine, but that's as far as I want to go down that path.
--
Here's what I'm left with.
I need a metal that...
-Is a base metal.
-Is rare, but occurs in most types of stone.
-Has a property that makes it ideal for manufacture of precision tools without making it an obscenely powerful weapon material.
-Has a name that is either original, mythological, or derived from a real life element.
--
The second criterion means that I more or less have to use a fictional metal. Since I don't want to rip a name from another specific fantasy universe, that leaves me with two options.
1) Orichalcum - a legendary orange metal mentioned in ancient writings, associated with the lost city of Atlantis. It is unclear whether or not this metal was entirely fictional or an alloy. The Romans translated this as "aurichalcum," which resulted in alloys of gold and copper being named "orichalcum," but no one knows what the original metal actually was - if it even existed at all.
2) An original name - I'm open to more ideas here. I have to approve it, which means it cannot include the words "steel" or "iron."
It would be really nice if I could get some more feedback on this. I didn't think orichalcum was such a bad choice, myself, seeing as the other two traditional fantasy metals (mithril and adamantine) are already in-game. To be completely honest, the more I think about it, the more attracted I am to the idea of just leaving it as "orichalcum."
Actually, a better idea: let's put a poll up for it.
Post by: NobodyPro on May 12, 2011, 04:43:56 am
Post by: narhiril on May 13, 2011, 01:10:25 pm
Hadrium, you could make it very resistant to blows but heavy (slow) and blunt.
I like this idea, but not for this particular metal. I may add a "heavy armor" metal down the road.
I've got all of the raws for v0.12 written (unless I decide to add a creature or two, in which case I'll need a few days to do graphics). I'm just bug hunting now. Cave oysters and pigeons were dying out very fast in worldgen, so I'm changing them into vermin. I'm not sure how this will affect pigeon training, graphics, or oyster pearls, but they're at least surviving now.
Here's what 0.12 currently has:
-Orichalcum (turned into precision tools at Alchemy Lab or Magma-Powered Alchemy Lab, also a decent crafting metal (value 35)).
-The Advanced Mechanics Workshop (requires precision tools, produces precision tools and advanced mechanisms)
-The Mechanical Sparring Partner (requires advanced mechanisms, a spear, a shield, and an armor stand, and trains any weapon skill)
-The Medical Dummy (requires a splint, precision tools, and several advanced mechanisms, trains surgery, suturing, bone setting, and wound dressing)
-The Morgue (requires precision tools and advanced mechanisms, trains diagnose skill using corpses)
-The Mechanical Obstacle Course (requires several mechanisms and advanced mechanisms, trains dodge, armor, and ambusher skills)
-The Crematorium (requires fire-safe material, turns corpses or five vermin remains into ash)
-A few new hidden items (wink).
-A hidden, incredibly (though not invulnerably) powerful creature (with graphics).
-Bugfixes for cave oysters, pigeons, and a spoiler-related oceanic creature that wasn't spawning properly.
-Reduced overall Meowkin population by making their "kitten" stage longer, resulting in slightly better megabeast survival rates.
-A change to clockwork pendant salvaging, which now yields a precision tool, a mechanism, and one to three advanced mechanisms
-Revised entity relations (see a later post on this page)
A couple of ideas on the table for additional 0.12 content:
-New HFS, to replace or compliment procedurally generated clowns.
-Mood Armor, though I'm not sure how many more armor types I can really think of.
-Rare Drops (will involve new creatures).
-NobodyPro's "heavy armor" metal concept.
-More tech tree elements.
NOW IT'S YOUR TURN
I plan to visit each of these concepts, but I am debating when would be a good time to do so. What do you guys think? Do you want v0.12 a little bit sooner, or would you rather wait a bit and see a few more new features added? If you'd rather wait, what concepts would you most like to see expanded on?
Post by: narhiril on May 13, 2011, 01:21:31 pm
Post by: Carn on May 13, 2011, 03:06:32 pm
On a related note, your mod has excellent ways to fill in the gaps for farming and metal working, but one gap I always found in DF was fuel sources. If you want a thriving metalworking (or glassworking) economy (and you need it to survive in this mod, as everything laughs off stone fall traps and there are WAY too many monsters spawned at once for cage traps to handle, even from just ambushes).
Perhaps some way to get a longer lasting fuel source, or more efficient use of fuel? Perhaps found via alchemy? Basically, something to help bridge the gap between the early stages of wood/coal burning until you can get to magma, and also make alchemy more important earlier (so we can have more irradiation accidents!)
To balance it out, it could be more dangerous to obtain (SCIENCE) than wood or coal, but more reliable (ie: you could get an economy going on maps with little coal or trees). Yes, I know you can trade for wood or coal, but it's never sufficient for the needs of a fortress since beds can only be made from wood.
Alternatively (or in addition) perhaps harvesting a tree would give you multiple units of wood based on woodcutting skill and/or tree type, and wood items would use different amounts. Perhaps a bed would use more than bolts, for instance.
Just some ideas. Rare drops and heavy armor sound cool, too!
Post by: Interus on May 13, 2011, 03:13:04 pm
Wish I could remember my chemistry enough to come up with some really good names. Basically though, I'm in favor of a name associated with your own mythology, and not borrowed from anywhere else. I'm not opposed to orichalcum either though, since it is such a well known fake-metal.
Post by: SirAaronIII on May 13, 2011, 05:46:13 pm
How about khalkine (after a town on an island in Greece, I liked the name)? Or intium (after the Inca sun god)?
Post by: narhiril on May 13, 2011, 07:56:10 pm
I would love to see more tech progression myself. As much as DF is a sandbox game, having some (admittedly optional) goals to work towards are nice.
On a related note, your mod has excellent ways to fill in the gaps for farming and metal working, but one gap I always found in DF was fuel sources. If you want a thriving metalworking (or glassworking) economy (and you need it to survive in this mod, as everything laughs off stone fall traps and there are WAY too many monsters spawned at once for cage traps to handle, even from just ambushes).
This is an issue that I am working to resolve in the very near future. Ambushes in particular with more than one hostile race get overwhelming (especially to trade caravans) very quickly, and this was not the mod's intention. Having eight ambush groups pop up on top of a caravan the instant it enters your map is not particularly fun, in my opinion, so I am trying to implement the following changes.
-Nephilim are no longer hostile by default. They will not ambush you - ever - but will siege you if at war. You can also trade with them, which is nice because they carry steel weapons (including the lance, a new type of pike unique to them).
Status: done and implemented for 0.12.
-Bog trolls should now be hostile to goblins and lizardmen (who, for technical reasons, are still allied). Thus, since the majority of ambushes in the current version are lizardmen and bog trolls, they should go after each other instead of lingering on your map waiting for a caravan to stomp.
Status: done, in theory, but not yet tested
-Voidwalkers are hostile by default to everyone except the bog trolls (who they usually consider a waste of time and effort to bother killing). When a voidwalker siege shows up, it will wipe the map of most other opposing forces. Voidwalkers are tough enough without stacking other armies on top of them.
Status: done, but I still haven't had enough time testing to actually trigger a voidwalker siege.
Perhaps some way to get a longer lasting fuel source, or more efficient use of fuel? Perhaps found via alchemy? Basically, something to help bridge the gap between the early stages of wood/coal burning until you can get to magma, and also make alchemy more important earlier (so we can have more irradiation accidents!)
To balance it out, it could be more dangerous to obtain (SCIENCE) than wood or coal, but more reliable (ie: you could get an economy going on maps with little coal or trees). Yes, I know you can trade for wood or coal, but it's never sufficient for the needs of a fortress since beds can only be made from wood.
Alternatively (or in addition) perhaps harvesting a tree would give you multiple units of wood based on woodcutting skill and/or tree type, and wood items would use different amounts. Perhaps a bed would use more than bolts, for instance.
Just some ideas. Rare drops and heavy armor sound cool, too!
I like this idea. Unfortunately, most of the reaction raws (i.e. construct bed) are not public, and the number of logs from each tree is hard coded (to my knowledge), but I am not opposed to "alternate" fuel sources involving alchemy.
I really need to play this since I like the idea so much. I don't know enough about it to make proper suggestions, but I think that your tech-tree-precision-metal thing should probably bring to mind an ancient civilization. I was about ready to suggest aurium or something, because I liked the sound of it, until I remembered that it's just gold. I'd like to suggest quintessium or omniscium. Quintessium came about because I looked up alloys and a 5-part alloy is called a quinary alloy. I figured an advanced enough civ would be able to combine several materials to produce their ideal metal. Also, it obviously sounds like quintessential. Which is why omniscium came to mind too. Also I like Q's, and Quin adds nicely to any alloy terms.
Wish I could remember my chemistry enough to come up with some really good names. Basically though, I'm in favor of a name associated with your own mythology, and not borrowed from anywhere else. I'm not opposed to orichalcum either though, since it is such a well known fake-metal.
Alloys are not something I have really bothered to touch yet (besides damascus steel), but I plan to introduce a number of alloys as "value multiplier" alloys, which will reward those who bother to gather their (numerous) necessary components with a sharp increase in net value - primarily for trade purposes. Your love of the letter "q" has also been noted. :)
Orichalcum should be a more advanced metal. Don't really have any good suggestions (besides Paracelsium/ine/ite/whatever mineral-sounding ending you want but that should be more advanced), but I think the name of the first metal should end with an -ine. Just my opinion.
How about khalkine (after a town on an island in Greece, I liked the name)? Or intium (after the Inca sun god)?
I like "intium" quite a bit. However, I'm not sure what you mean by "more advanced." Are you referring to an advanced weapon material, or something with a very high value? I feel like, even though the material value is modest (35), orichalcum is still quite advanced because it opens up the entire mechanics arm of the tech tree, which leads to combat and medical training workshops - plus possible "second tier" mechanics advances down the road.
The problem with making it an advanced weapon material is that I don't feel like there's a lot of room for that, since mithril, damascus steel, iovium, ether, and voidshard all exist in the gap between steel and adamantine. I'm also quite adamant (pun intended) about not creating a metal more powerful than adamantine, because I feel that adamantine epitomizes the risk-reward concept, and I don't feel like I have the tools or any real reason to create a bigger risk than the one associated with adamantine.
Post by: SirAaronIII on May 13, 2011, 08:22:42 pm
I like "intium" quite a bit. However, I'm not sure what you mean by "more advanced." Are you referring to an advanced weapon material, or something with a very high value? I feel like, even though the material value is modest (35), orichalcum is still quite advanced because it opens up the entire mechanics arm of the tech tree, which leads to combat and medical training workshops - plus possible "second tier" mechanics advances down the road.I meant more difficult to access, like you have to do more steps. Because in the poll, it says the FIRST tech advancement metal, so there should be others after it, right?
Post by: narhiril on May 13, 2011, 08:31:13 pm
I meant more difficult to access, like you have to do more steps. Because in the poll, it says the FIRST tech advancement metal, so there should be others after it, right?
I'm actually not quite sure yet. I have some other ideas for ways to stagger "tech advancements" besides just striking new minerals. It's considerably rare in testing - only two thousand or so on an average sized map with the highest mineral distribution (about the same rarity as iovium, though a bit more spread out), but not rare enough to not appear on most maps. But yes, it is a base metal - this is to maintain some consistency with Plato's texts, which say that orichalcum was mined in Atlantis.
Right now, the "step" to acquire it is you have to find it. It's there, spread thin in a few very common types of rock, but it's not like gold which you can strike by randomly swinging a pick for a minute or two. I feel like it's rare enough to be exciting when you find it, but not rare enough to be frustrating. As you dig, you'll probably hit it - almost assuredly if you are doing exploratory mining. If you somehow manage to not find it, there's the option of using a clockwork pendant to advance, which drops (100%) from damascus sentinels in the third cavern level.
I also added a note to the front page that this mod was designed and tested to use standard or higher mineral distributions - primarily because I wrote the raws for mithril before mineral distribution was even a setting.
Post by: Carn on May 13, 2011, 11:49:11 pm
A lump of highly radioactive material could be dangerous, but possibly used as a fuel source or requirement for more SCIENCE!
Also, there are very limited ways to melt ice (or anything else). Toady never put in an option to build a bonfire, or anything like that. Or even a fire trap. Obviously, we've all been pumping magma to do these things, but a more limited way to do it on a smaller scale could be nice. For making one shot fire traps that are faster and easier to build, but not reusable (or as lethal) or heck, just for melting ice for drinking water for the wounded.
Although the possibility of using radioactive waste to melt drinking water.....hmmmm.....
Just tossing out more ideas.
Post by: Carn on May 13, 2011, 11:52:49 pm
Post by: Carn on May 14, 2011, 12:46:33 am
Not sure how much of a pain it would be to make, but perhaps another use for advanced mechanics might be parts for additional siege weapons?
I've always found siege weapons to be fairly useless and incredibly difficult to manufacture. Sure, they're some of the most powerful things in the game, but the crews are civilian so they flee. They're also very difficult to hit with, and have possibility of horrible friendly fire. Since Ambushes love to go after caravans, they aren't viable at all for defending the caravans.
I'm not sure what the technical limitations of siege weapons are, but it's another area that could possibly use the helping hand of SCIENCE!
Perhaps a one man(dwarf) bolt thrower, mounted on a swivel or tripod so as it could get a good field of fire? Basically a javelin thrower, but stationary and using the siege skill (but without the downside of Z level restriction or fixed facing of ballista). That would make it simply a weak javelin thrower, but perhaps it could use rocks for ammo? Or just fire crossbow bolts very quickly?
Ideas, ideas. I'm full of them when I should be sleeping.
Post by: SirAaronIII on May 14, 2011, 01:17:01 am
Post by: darkflagrance on May 14, 2011, 04:30:14 am
Have a reaction that consumes experimental alchemical resources and requires the presence of glass vials, and has a 1/100 chance to output a rare reagent. This reagent can be further reacted in similar reactions until you produce some new kind of precision tool. This can then be used as the requirement for a workshop that allows the production of new weapons, substances, or more research.
For example, you might have a "Experiment with gold and silver" reaction that has a 1/100 change to yield raw orichalcum. This could then be used in the "Purify raw orihalcum" reaction that has a 1/50 chance to produce purified orihalcum. Then, the Orihalcum Alchemical Forge would require a unit of purified orihalcum to make, and would allow the player to further synthesize pieces of orihalcum or forge orihalcum into weapons or tools.
You could probably use this idea in creating tiers of technology in your own mod.
Post by: narhiril on May 14, 2011, 09:12:46 am
Alchemy has a million and one possible things you could add to it, perhaps even having multiple tiers of alchemy labs, like you do with mechanics. Perhaps if you get enough or certain kinds of radioactive reactions, you can have an advanced alchemy lab (mad science sanitorium?)
A lump of highly radioactive material could be dangerous, but possibly used as a fuel source or requirement for more SCIENCE!
Also, there are very limited ways to melt ice (or anything else). Toady never put in an option to build a bonfire, or anything like that. Or even a fire trap. Obviously, we've all been pumping magma to do these things, but a more limited way to do it on a smaller scale could be nice. For making one shot fire traps that are faster and easier to build, but not reusable (or as lethal) or heck, just for melting ice for drinking water for the wounded.
Although the possibility of using radioactive waste to melt drinking water.....hmmmm.....
Just tossing out more ideas.
The bolded statement is something I have great interest in. Not a "nuclear reactor" sort of thing, but I think it's well within universe to add a rock that constantly leaks power that could be harnessed by alchemy to produce fuel.
The problem I am facing with fires is how to safely start them. Since dwarves produce workshop products right beneath their feet, there's a good chance that they'll wind up lighting themselves on fire. As an alchemical disaster, this was quite humorous, but makes the practicality of intentionally lit fires a bit difficult. Toady stated in the development logs that this is a planned future feature, but I will look into some other mods that deal with this concept to see if they have a more effective methods of dealing with unwanted side effects. Maybe I can track down something that works and permissions to use it.
Also, am I doing something wrong or are bog trolls so enormous they can't even be killed by dropping atom smasher bridges on them?
Atom smashing has been greatly "nerfed" since 40d. It's not a surprise to me that it isn't working on bog trolls, especially if there's more than one of them. It's really only useful for garbage disposal nowadays, or as a light defense mechanism against smaller creatures (i.e. goblins).
Sorry, but I think siege engines are hardcoded. That's why in some total conversions, we have ballistae even when the setting is OUTER SPACE. Kinda weird.
This is correct. Unfortunately, it makes ideas like Carn's stationary bolt thrower impossible. I will, of course, revisit some of these ideas if new versions of DF make them possible.
Here's a thought I'm planning to implement in my current mod: Research.
Have a reaction that consumes experimental alchemical resources and requires the presence of glass vials, and has a 1/100 chance to output a rare reagent. This reagent can be further reacted in similar reactions until you produce some new kind of precision tool. This can then be used as the requirement for a workshop that allows the production of new weapons, substances, or more research.
For example, you might have a "Experiment with gold and silver" reaction that has a 1/100 change to yield raw orichalcum. This could then be used in the "Purify raw orihalcum" reaction that has a 1/50 chance to produce purified orihalcum. Then, the Orihalcum Alchemical Forge would require a unit of purified orihalcum to make, and would allow the player to further synthesize pieces of orihalcum or forge orihalcum into weapons or tools.
You could probably use this idea in creating tiers of technology in your own mod.
This is similar to my line of thinking for second tier advances, though how I go about the "chances" for advancement may be a bit different. There are literally a million things that can be done with this idea - which is part of the reason I'm so surprised that it hasn't really been explored very much. Some sort of synthesis of tech advancement and the "heavy armor" concept is something I would like to play around with.
Post by: narhiril on May 14, 2011, 04:09:23 pm
If I can't get a fix, I might have to just cut their trade caravans altogether.
Post by: SirAaronIII on May 14, 2011, 04:20:13 pm
Post by: narhiril on May 14, 2011, 05:04:07 pm
Maybe you could make them have only flying pack animals, if possible. But then other races might get the animals too which might kind of get weird.
Right, this is the problem. There are only one or two tokens that influence which animals are used, and neither of them offer the possibility of adding a new pack animal and setting a civilization to only use that one.
I'm not cutting nephilim caravans solely because doing so would effectively remove them from the game, since wars aren't declared nearly often enough for that to be a viable option. I am instead tweaking the lore files to reflect their current behavior. Nephilim will come to your trade depot en route to other nephilim settlements, but will refuse to allow you to touch any of their goods. You can still forcibly steal their goods, but doing so too often will incur their wrath.
Post by: Carn on May 14, 2011, 09:32:48 pm
If ambushes could be scaled to the wealth/population of a fort in terms of frequency and / or size, that would be ideal. I thought sieges worked that way already, but I could be wrong.
Post by: Alem on May 14, 2011, 09:40:47 pm
Post by: Carn on May 14, 2011, 09:43:56 pm
How does DF handle wealth in terms of items from invaders? Once they enter your area, does it belong to your fortress? Once they die?
I don't know if it's a possibility to have thieves or other mischievious creatures steal items from the deceased. The main reason being that it would reduce the amount of "free goodies" a fort would get from ambushes killing each other.
I personally like to play in horrifying undead and savage areas, and in vanilla skeletal eagles and trolls and such would often murder goblin ambushes for me. This result in both thinning out wandering threats and providing free loot.
Perhaps a creature who eats items? Rust monster, slime, something like that? That might be a neat idea even if ambush on ambush action isn't viable. Another possible threat to forts, that's rather subtle and unique. You'd have to be unconventional in fighting them if they could eat away weapons and armor, too....
Post by: narhiril on May 15, 2011, 11:50:52 pm
Is there a way to simply remove them from ambushing, but not sieging or thieving? Or modifying the frequency at which they ambush, or the size of their ambush parties? I figure you would have looked into one or all of those already, but I know nothing about the way DF handles such things. They weren't the only offenders in terms of ambushes anyway, if 3 lizard ambushes, 2 bog trolls, and 2 goblins all hit a caravan at once it, telling the vivisected traders "hey - at least no nephilim were there to help gut you" is a small comfort.
If ambushes could be scaled to the wealth/population of a fort in terms of frequency and / or size, that would be ideal. I thought sieges worked that way already, but I could be wrong.
The way DF handles things is quite confusing. Certain tokens affect diplomatic relations in ways that complicate modding a fair bit. For example, the [ITEM_THIEF] and [BABYSNATCHER] tokens not only make that civilization steal from others, but also forces them to ally with the goblins and forces them into conflict with the dwarves. These tokens seem to completely discard the ethics tokens for determination of war and peace. Also, removing [CAN_SPEAK] has no effect on social skills, but forces hostility. In Fortress Defense, hostile races used this workaround to force them to attack the player. Some of these races would also attack the goblins, and declare war on each other from time to time. What gets really confusing is when these tokens are overlapping - like a race without [CAN_SPEAK] but with [ITEM_THIEF] - will it be hostile to the goblins or friendly to them? Unfortunately, I need to plug through these possible permutations until I get results that resemble the concepts.
All in all, I'm left with a mess of intertwined tokens that somehow (not always logically) influence friend and foe. I would love nothing more than a token to disregard all of these complicated interactions and simply force a race into alliance or hostility with another (I put up a post in the suggestions forum to this effect), but unless something like that comes along, I will have to work out how these tokens interact with each other through mostly trial and error. This is what is slowing down the diplomatic changes - I know exactly what I want the mod to do, but need to figure out what configuration of tokens will produce that result.
I'm devoting the next few days to testing. So far, the nephilim are behaving as intended - friendly to the dwarves, hostile to ambushers. Their caravans didn't quite work (flying civilizations' caravans don't work right in the current game), but I'm simply writing this into the lore as an unusual racial unwillingness to allow their goods to pass into foreign hands. I *think* (cross your fingers) that I am within two or three test builds of getting the relations right. Then I can move on to jamming a bit more content into this next update, which is still on schedule for late this month.
I hate to be a tease, but it's looking really nice. The "tech tree" is working perfectly so far.
Post by: narhiril on May 16, 2011, 05:43:39 pm
Training reactions will output a single "slab of accreditation." These slabs are otherwise worthless, but can be removed from the game at an alchemy lab (ten at a time). This reaction re-uses the slabs for documentation of !!SCIENCE!!, thus consuming them and training the organization skill. For the reasons stated above, this reaction must output one slab of accreditation in order to train the skill, resulting in a net loss of nine slabs per reaction. But, in the spirit of alchemy, if you're very lucky, your scientists may create something special, which I have some very, very cool plans for.
That's all I'm going to say for now. I am changing the poll up here in a moment - it looks like Orichalcum is going to be the name of the tech tree metal, but I will consider revisiting other names if future needs demand them.
Post by: Alem on May 16, 2011, 11:19:02 pm
Post by: narhiril on May 16, 2011, 11:28:57 pm
Something I just ran into recently, and am uncertain if it is something I did wrong or a random quirk. The magma powered alchemist lab didn't seem to be recognizing the iron bucket as magma safe. Tried moving the bucket around from stockpile to stock pile and no dice until I removed the tag requiring magma safe buckets. Now to see just how badly I maim my alchemists :D.
Noted and fixed for 0.12a. Thanks!
Still can't get will o' wisps to spawn properly... Not sure what's wrong with them. That's the last major issue that I know of. After that, I can give testing one more spin, and if bog trolls and goblins start fighting each other, I'll have the version ready to release.
Post by: Alem on May 17, 2011, 12:31:32 am
Post by: SirAaronIII on May 17, 2011, 12:36:45 am
Anyway, my !!FUN!! with this mod.
So I built a Dodge This trap. Since the drops gasp weren't immediately killing, I decided to build a machine to pour water in there so that enemies who didn't die would drown (except for those who don't breath). Guess what happens next? That's right, the machine horribly fails and floods everything. Now those poor humans can't get in to trade. :'(
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
is kind of fitting cuz he's sitting in a lil' pool. Ha.Post by: narhiril on May 17, 2011, 12:39:01 pm
Post by: Carn on May 18, 2011, 02:01:26 am
So, Nephilim are currently planned as a sort of counter-ambusher? They only send caravans (unless you're at war with them) and their purpose is essentially to lure out and attack ambushes?
Post by: narhiril on May 18, 2011, 11:35:51 am
Very cool, I look forward to discovering in what new ways we can get our dwarves horribly murdered!
So, Nephilim are currently planned as a sort of counter-ambusher? They only send caravans (unless you're at war with them) and their purpose is essentially to lure out and attack ambushes?
Essentially, yes. They won't actually offer you any of their goods, but they'll come to your depot and they're not terrible fighters.
I actually have an interesting idea for more of this in the future in the form of a race of powerful but peaceful beings who will be capable of taking on two or three ambushes at once with their caravan guards. I just need some time to write their raws, come up with some lore, make their graphics, and tweak them to make sure that they won't obliterate everyone else in worldgen. My kingdom for [FORCE_RELATIONS].
Bog trolls are not fighting with goblins, so I'm instead replacing their weapons with wooden ones, and they will no longer send ambushes (it doesn't make sense for something so large and obnoxious to be able to ambush anyway). This combined with changes to Nephilim should make the world a little less volatile - at least, for young fortresses (wait until the Voidwalkers show up... teehee). It's still going to be much more challenging than vanilla, but the difficulty should be staggered a bit better now.
Expect a release on Friday unless otherwise stated. Oh, and I changed the poll, seeing as things are going more smoothly than anticipated.
Post by: Ult1mara on May 18, 2011, 04:59:06 pm
Post by: Seriyu on May 18, 2011, 06:23:47 pm
Post by: narhiril on May 18, 2011, 06:42:14 pm
Personally If you wanna make stuff more difficult I'd rather he buff the current civs. Getting sieged by six civs at once isn't so much difficult as "well gotta stay locked up for another 3 months." :P
Unfortunately (or, perhaps, fortunately for some), there isn't really a way I can make a civilization that is able to overcome this strategy. Nothing can break down drawbridges or walls, and flying creatures will only fly over them if a path already exists (it usually doesn't, because that's the whole point of a fortification). I'm going to let Toady do his thing with the military arc before I attempt anything drastic. In the meantime, I'm nerfing bog trolls a bit more to make multiple ambushes a little bit less challenging (though they're still very, very challenging). Don't get too comfortable though - those of you who haven't seen a voidwalker annihilation force because of a low population cap are in for a rougher ride this time. I nearly shat my pants when i saw them show up at my fortress of just over 60 dwarves, but that's what too much wealth will do to you.
I haven't been unlucky enough to run into their most dangerous units yet, though.
Anyways, the idea is sort of to force you to either fight or withdraw. If you fight, you hold the above-ground resources, but lose lives. If you wall yourselves in, you need to go to the caverns. And trust me, this mod puts some nasty stuff in the caverns. Those devourer silk webs don't make themselves. Maybe you'll do a little of both - maybe if you dig down, you'll progress technologically and gain the upper hand over the forces besieging you. Or, more likely, you'll die. You can hold out for a while with walls and drawbridges, but it will halt your progress. If you want a baron or a duke or a king or even just more migrants, that means that sooner or later, through ingenuity or raw power, you'll need to hold the surface. The tech tree updates in the future will give you even more avenues through which to mount your defense. This first installment offers a small taste of what is to come.
If you dig even deeper, you'll ... never mind. I'm not telling you. When you think you've conquered it all, I'll just let it show up. And don't bother looking in the arena, because it isn't there.
---
Dwarf Fortress is, in my opinion, best described as an epic tale generator with varying levels of user input. LFR is designed to make each of those tales even more epic.
LFR is about fundamentally raising the stakes of Dwarf Fortress without changing any of the things that make it already so enjoyable. The ultimate goal is that you won't get "bored" anymore. Instead of sitting on a heap of goblin corpses, lauding yourselves and letting your citizens grow fat and old, you'll need to fight for every inch of your legacy. The bog trolls want your stuff. The lizardmen and goblins want you dead. The voidwalkers will do anything to prevent you from reaching their level of technical prowess. Sure, there are the meowkin and nephilim and elves and men who will help you, to varying extents, but to obtain their help, you need to help them get to you. Your race is besieged on all sides by forces larger, more numerous, and more advanced than your own. They will drive you from the earth, or they will drive you deep underground, where even more savage threats lurk. But with this risk comes reward. With desperation comes opportunity. You must hold the deep to hold the surface, and only through constant struggle will you create anything worth engraving on a wall. Even if you somehow prevail, the attacks will continue on all sides until you fall or your computer explodes. Everything you do will feel more important.
In that way, I don't see fortification or "withdrawal" as a bad thing at all. I see it as a natural step in the evolution of a successful fortress. You fortify to buy yourself time to innovate and advance so that you won't have to fortify anymore. Even if your current dwarves are safe, you cannot interact with the outside world if you shut yourself in a hole, and there is so much more glory to be gained from that interaction. No one will remember you if they don't know you exist. There is so much more glory to be won, so many more legacies to be written. If you're a real dwarf, that's motivation enough.
Dig deeper. Invent. Create. Research. Advance. You must do these things or you will do what countless others have done before you - die in isolation, leaving little more behind than piles of rock and ash. Is it more exciting to read - or, through DF, experience - a story that ends with an impenetrable, but isolated fortification, or the twists and turns, mishaps and breakthroughs of a society that flourishes because it refuses to die even in the face of impossible odds? I don't think I need to put up a poll for that question. Rather than atop the bones of goblins, your civilization will be built with the bones of your heroes who will lay down their lives and legacy for a chance to preserve your race for one more generation. Your graveyard will be littered with memorials to dwarves, each with a different role in the tale.
An alchemist who gave his life to the study of materials, bringing about the discovery of ether.
A swordsman, who took up the first ethereal weapon and held off the forces of the lizardmen council while the unarmed civilians retreated behind the walls to begin the siege.
An engineer, who devised the trapped corridor that would break that siege.
A miner, who struck orichalcum whilst hewing out the trap chamber.
A machinist who took the new metal and created the first training dummy.
An axe master, who trained for years on that training dummy and saved the fortress from a threat from below.
This is all possible with LFR - and I assure you, there is more to come.
The Voidwalker Patriarch Obliterator bludgeons the Auxiliary in the head with his (-*glistening voidshard cudgel*-), shattering the skull through the *steel helm*!
Post by: Carn on May 18, 2011, 11:55:45 pm
A constant level of threat and/or promise of power, the proverbial carrot on a stick, that continues to advance as long as you continue to survive and grow your fortress. THIS is what makes LFR so great. Yes, more civs and and metals and monsters and plants are nice, but other mods have done them. LFR knows that there needs to be risk to counter reward, and a feeling of progression and accomplishment throughout the life (or fiery, irradiated death) of your fortress.
This is the reason I came back to DF.
Post by: SirAaronIII on May 19, 2011, 01:42:30 am
Post by: narhiril on May 19, 2011, 01:50:43 am
This is why I love this mod. Not just simply increased difficulty, but scaled properly over the development of the fortress, so that there is always a sense of threat, of urgency, of importance. Sure, you could edit the raws and make everything hostile and do infinite damage. LFR makes sure you're never *complacent*. And, when the threat grows overwhelming, there is always a new avenue of research or power to pursue. These aren't just handed out though, and getting to them may end up being as dangerous as the forces driving you to pursue them.
A constant level of threat and/or promise of power, the proverbial carrot on a stick, that continues to advance as long as you continue to survive and grow your fortress. THIS is what makes LFR so great. Yes, more civs and and metals and monsters and plants are nice, but other mods have done them. LFR knows that there needs to be risk to counter reward, and a feeling of progression and accomplishment throughout the life (or fiery, irradiated death) of your fortress.
This is the reason I came back to DF.
I'm very glad that you're enjoying it. You'll have to just take my word for it, but 0.12a is WORLDS ahead of 0.11c. I hope you won't be disappointed come Friday, which is when I plan to have all of the tests wrapped up. There is a final, hidden feature I will be testing tomorrow, but it isn't showing anything in the error log, so I expect it will work properly. It's a preview of things to come in the second "tech tree" update. The second update will focus a bit on mechanics and a bit on more mystical elements, likely including alchemy. My intention is to get a number of "base level" tech tree advances that start to converge and combine into higher level, more exciting developments which will be different for different fortresses depending on biome, resources, playstyle, etcetera. I intend to make most of these advances cross-compatible, so that players who gravitate towards a certain playstyle or "tree" of advancement will not be barred from advancing it, even though it may be easier in some situations than others. Orichalcum, which is found virtually everywhere in small quantities, is one of these factors. There will be others, perhaps involving chance-based "research" reactions, odd reagents, or other concepts yet to be shared or developed.
I feel like now is an opportune time to mention that nearly 1/4 of the content of this mod shows up in the change logs as "Added new easter eggs" or "Added new hidden features." This release will have even more than most other releases in that department, including some foreshadowing of tech tree concepts on the horizon.
If you find something not mentioned in the notes, go ahead and post a screenshot. Odds are that if you find something unusual, you're probably the first one besides myself to see or play with it. There's multiple creatures and other goodies that have been in the game since release that have not, to my knowledge, ever been seen outside of testing, even though they're working and are always there in worldgen. Today's testing session was the first time I had ever seen a will o' wisp outside of arena tests.
I always felt that the games that stuck with me the longest were the ones where hours of work and effort went into features that only a handful of players would ever experience. In Bioshock, for instance, it is a well known part of the story that there are audio "journals" included to help the player piece together the puzzle. One of these diaries is from a mother, who talks about the little sisters' orphanage, where her daughter was taken. Much later in the game, out of the way, there's a room with two corpses lying intertwined on a bed - one male, one female. Next to the bed is a picture of a little girl. A canister of pills is spilled out next to it. If you blink, you'll miss it, but if you see it, it's an experience that sticks with you, even years later. For that one moment, the game takes your breath away. For one moment, you feel that inexplicable connection to the developer. If I can create a similar experience for one person who downloads this mod, I will consider it a tremendous success.
That last bit with the descriptions of what's possible in LFR... you should add that to the OP. It's so epic.
Done. :)
Post by: Ult1mara on May 19, 2011, 05:22:16 am
That last bit with the descriptions of what's possible in LFR... you should add that to the OP. It's so epic.
I agree with this statement The end of that little explanation of LFR was great ^_^
Post by: Pan on May 19, 2011, 06:45:56 am
The Voidwalker Patriarch Obliterator bludgeons the Auxiliary in the head with his (-*glistening voidshard cudgel*-), shattering the skull through the *steel helm*!
Through the steel helm? How powerful are voidshards? As powerful as cotton candy?
By the way, how can I use voracious maws as bio weapons? I currently have no time to play DF, but I am really dying to know.
Post by: narhiril on May 19, 2011, 01:15:17 pm
The Voidwalker Patriarch Obliterator bludgeons the Auxiliary in the head with his (-*glistening voidshard cudgel*-), shattering the skull through the *steel helm*!
Through the steel helm? How powerful are voidshards? As powerful as cotton candy?
By the way, how can I use voracious maws as bio weapons? I currently have no time to play DF, but I am really dying to know.
Voidshard is much more powerful than steel, and second only to cotton candy. Ether is of comparable strength. The downsides are that ether can only be produced through dangerous alchemical experiments (and only then in small quantities) and that voidshard is voidwalker-exclusive. If you want voidshard, you'll have to pry it off of them. Even if you get an upper hand with cotton candy, your dwarves will not be invincible. The voidwalkers are meant to challenge even the best equipped dwarven military.
Voracious Maws brew into an alcohol called "Atrophic Bliss." If you position this alcohol strategically and ignite it with magma, it carries an extremely powerful inhaled syndrome called "Atrophic Aftershock" that weakens the walls of blood vessels and prevents coagulation. In other words, it causes bleeding from every possible body part, usually resulting in death (and quite a mess).
Post by: narhiril on May 19, 2011, 03:44:03 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I sent a marksman to the wall to fire some javelins at the siege forces. I didn't notice the annihilator veteran. The shot knocked him backwards off of the wall. Amazingly, he survived both the shot and the fall, but he's going to be spending a fair amount of time in the hospital.
Oh, and voidshard is working, this one particular unit just happened not to be carrying any of it.
Post by: Ult1mara on May 19, 2011, 04:28:45 pm
Post by: narhiril on May 20, 2011, 01:51:06 am
v0.12a is the most exciting release yet, pioneering the "tech tree" concept, which will be an integral theme of future updates. It's a whole new ballgame now. You will need to generate a new world, as a metric ton of new things have been added or tweaked.
As always, report any quirks or issues to this thread or to my contact information (provided in the manual).
Post by: Carn on May 20, 2011, 02:54:33 am
Post by: Yoink on May 20, 2011, 04:19:57 am
Post by: Pan on May 20, 2011, 04:39:03 am
Say, what are your plans for the next release?
Post by: narhiril on May 20, 2011, 02:23:44 pm
Can't wait to get some free time to try this out :D
Say, what are your plans for the next release?
Second-tier tech advancements, some new minerals and alloys, possibly a new civilization, and, of course, more easter eggs. I have some interesting plans that I'm not ready to reveal yet.
Some of the concepts on the table for v0.13:
Oil shale - found in layers, can be burned for a 50% refined coal yield. Very high on the tech ladder, I may improve the efficiency of this process. Normally, oil shale can be burned as low-quality fuel, but requires intense heat and pressure to be converted into actual oil. But dwarves have magma... so I'm considering a later tech tree advance that will yield more fuel. In an effort to make things as realistic as possible, the [MATERIAL_VALUE] of this stone will double with each subsequent update.
That last sentence was a joke, in case you were wondering.
More mechanical advances, including new trap components (I MAY have accidentally leaked one of these into v0.12a... Maybe.) and improvements to existing technologies. Expect improved javelin thrower technology, armor advances, and material science improvements, involving new alloys. This will likely include hadrine, a metal of immense strength but very high weight. To prevent this from unbalancing blunt weapons, this alloy will not be available for use in weapons or ammunition.
I am also considering removing [ACTIVE_SEASON:AUTUMN] from all LFR hostile races. That way, if you keep the map relatively clear of previous ambushes and siege forces, the dwarven and meowkin caravans should be able to get through more frequently. I think this will make the game more enjoyable, though sieges that last multiple seasons will still need to be broken to allow for trade. This is a very quick modification and may be released as a v0.12b feature depending on feedback.
I am playing around with using the theme of rituals for a parallel tech tree (that will later combine with the mechanical one). I haven't decided how to go about it, though - specifically, what skill would it use? Alchemy was easy, because it was just laying there, unused, ready to exploit. Rituals would likely involve gems and body parts.
A few new creatures, some with "rare drops" that will be statistically unremarkable, but nevertheless cool and fun.
The new civilization is still very much in the design phase. I need to determine what role I want them to fulfill before I go further with them.
That's all I'm willing to share at the moment. It's only been hours since I put 0.12a up, I need some time before 0.13 starts to take more shape.
Post by: Carn on May 21, 2011, 10:51:04 am
Instead of weakening them, though, perhaps we could reuse an idea I remember from another mod some time ago - defense golems you could buy at the embark screen (or from dwarf merchants).
I think they were set up as pet animals, basically, but when they died they broke into rock blocks, and didn't reproduce. Essentially super war dogs without the need for training, but more expensive and lacking reproduction or ability to be butchered. This gave forts starting off in extremely brutal areas a chance to get going, as the golems could potentially hold off initial undead / savage animals / thieves.
As it stands now, early defenses are limited to stone fall traps and war dogs, both of which seem completely useless. Perhaps slightly buffing one or both of those would help?
Perhaps golem creation could also be worked into the tech tree, with more advanced golems being researched, and only basic ones available at the embark or from merchants. They could also have different qualities, so some would not be strict upgrades over others. Maybe obsidian has more damage potential with blades on it, granite is tougher? Perhaps a difficult to build high tech one with some kind of range attack?
Golems wouldn't replace your militia or other defense options as you can't order them, they can't train, and can't use gear. Care would have to be taken to balance them, but it's an idea. Having one bog troll get through my traps only to butcher an entire nephilim caravan plus guards, and then all thirty dwarves I conscripted into the military and set to kill him made me really wish for some early defense with a kick to it. Granted, they were largely untrained and unarmed dwarves, but still.....I'm still watching them go at it as I write this after conscripting the entirety of my fort into the militia, and the troll is healing as fast as he is hurt. He now has half a dozen scars, and basically every bone in him is broken, but it doesn't seem to phase him at all. I'm not sure how he can swing a club with two broken arms and two broken legs, to say nothing of the other injuries.
If caravans are ever fixed to bring their full compliment and wagons again, this would be somewhat less of an issue as they would have more guards and animals, as well as bringing much needed materials to an early fort. Still, bog trolls are complete death machines and can't really be handled by a militia unless they have some training and decent gear, neither of which a fort has to begin with.
Another way to mitigate this could be to limit the frequency and amount of migrants. I don't know if it's DF2010 or this mod but I seem to get boatloads of the idiots showing up very rapidly, which naturally brings the bigger threats along. I don't know if migrants can really be controlled, as I don't remember a mod ever doing it. This is probably the single biggest issue - without constant migrant waves, sieges wouldn't show up until later, giving more time to prepare traps, forge weapons, and train militia. This would also make individual dwarves more important, as well as medicine, as replacing dwarves would be more difficult. I really like the idea of caring about dwarf wellbeing. Of course, if forts grow more slowly they would have a greater need for early protection, too.
Perhaps have another race that attacks early, but in smaller numbers or smaller individuals, and move bog trolls up the threat timeline a bit? Perhaps a race that doesn't use items, and relies on natural weapons/defenses, so they could provide a threat without giving the fort any resources upon defeat.
Anyway, some ideas. And tears.
TLDR Bog trolls beat my ass, boohoo.
Post by: Carn on May 21, 2011, 11:01:54 am
Or even just a brazier or stove that creates heat without spewing flames, just enough to melt ice.
I don't remember, can elves trade you more fearsome animals capable of being war-trained and bred? It would give you a reason to care somewhat about trading with them. I am of the opinion that while walling yourself off should be an option, trade should be important enough that hiding from the world is a big setback. Obviously the caravans are currently a bit broken, so that hurts their importance. Still, if they brought something besides a million cloth and wooden piccolos it would be worth caring about. Elves are the biggest offenders here, but other races do seem to bring plenty of useless crap. Perhaps give the elves and meowkin merchant liasons so you could order from them, as the humans and dwarves have?
Another Idea I had was for some kind of sapper class that could accompany some race's sieges, that could sneak and ahead of the assault break traps without triggering them. This would mean the race as a whole couldn't ignore traps, but would mean you couldn't rely completely on traps to stop them either. Traps would remain a viable addition to defense, without being overpowered or requiring all high threat enemy races to avoid traps. I know some races tend to mill about for a while as they gather morale or whatnot for their charge during a siege. I'm not sure how that works, but it would be the perfect time for sappers to slip in. Perhaps assassins could be done in a similar fashion to target nobles or powerful military dwarves.
Thanks again for your work on this mod! I know there are plenty of people throwing out tons of suggestions, but that is simply because of the fun and potential for growth your mod has shown.
Post by: Pan on May 21, 2011, 11:04:22 am
...defense golems you could buy at the embark screen (or from dwarf merchants)...
Golems remind me of the Damascus sentinels, except made out of rock. But anyway, Carn raises a fine point on the need for early defense, so I second his opinion.
By the way, an alchemist's results is based purely on luck, right? If not, what skill does alchemy govern?
Post by: narhiril on May 21, 2011, 02:47:56 pm
...defense golems you could buy at the embark screen (or from dwarf merchants)...
Golems remind me of the Damascus sentinels, except made out of rock. But anyway, Carn raises a fine point on the need for early defense, so I second his opinion.
By the way, an alchemist's results is based purely on luck, right? If not, what skill does alchemy govern?
It only determines quality of the product. Since most alchemy reactions aren't affected by this, it's kind of irrelevant, but it does have an effect on the reverse-engineering reactions. A skilled alchemist performing the "sentinel core research" reaction will have a better chance of kicking out a masterwork weapon.
A way to melt ice without magma would be fantastic. I don't know if it's possible to rework a spike or weapon trap so that it requires fuel, and creates fire when triggered (by lever, pressure plate, whatever)
Or even just a brazier or stove that creates heat without spewing flames, just enough to melt ice.
I don't remember, can elves trade you more fearsome animals capable of being war-trained and bred? It would give you a reason to care somewhat about trading with them. I am of the opinion that while walling yourself off should be an option, trade should be important enough that hiding from the world is a big setback. Obviously the caravans are currently a bit broken, so that hurts their importance. Still, if they brought something besides a million cloth and wooden piccolos it would be worth caring about. Elves are the biggest offenders here, but other races do seem to bring plenty of useless crap. Perhaps give the elves and meowkin merchant liasons so you could order from them, as the humans and dwarves have?
Another Idea I had was for some kind of sapper class that could accompany some race's sieges, that could sneak and ahead of the assault break traps without triggering them. This would mean the race as a whole couldn't ignore traps, but would mean you couldn't rely completely on traps to stop them either. Traps would remain a viable addition to defense, without being overpowered or requiring all high threat enemy races to avoid traps. I know some races tend to mill about for a while as they gather morale or whatnot for their charge during a siege. I'm not sure how that works, but it would be the perfect time for sappers to slip in. Perhaps assassins could be done in a similar fashion to target nobles or powerful military dwarves.
Thanks again for your work on this mod! I know there are plenty of people throwing out tons of suggestions, but that is simply because of the fun and potential for growth your mod has shown.
Traps are hardcoded. Believe me, I'm as sad about that as you are.
I believe the animals that elves bring are random, but I'll look into the liaison idea. I might be able to make that work.
Sappers are an interesting idea that might actually be possible, to an extent. I believe there is a somewhat obscure token present on gremlins that causes them to break through and cause mischief. I might be able to give this to a specific caste, which would then work in a similar fashion. This idea has never, to my knowledge, been done before, and will require a ton of testing, but the technical aspects seem within limits. I'll look into this.
It is impossible to create or use a non-vermin creature in a reaction. This was an idea that surfaced very early in the tech tree design, that's been bugging me ever since. I think the problem is that Toady doesn't want people modding in reactions that consume cats and kick out bars of compressed felinium, or reactions that consume babies and kick out piles of ash. While I understand his concern for limiting possibilities based on ethics, it is a frustrating problem for those of us who need those tokens for some very in-universe mod ideas. I should also note that any vermin produced in reactions have broken AI.
Bog trolls are the only race that isn't quite balanced yet. I'm looking into possibilities for them. Right now, they're using wooden weapons. This should make it a little bit easier to out-gear them.
Perhaps I am terrible at this game, but early bog trolls sieges (3 in one year) are devastating.
Instead of weakening them, though, perhaps we could reuse an idea I remember from another mod some time ago - defense golems you could buy at the embark screen (or from dwarf merchants).
I think they were set up as pet animals, basically, but when they died they broke into rock blocks, and didn't reproduce. Essentially super war dogs without the need for training, but more expensive and lacking reproduction or ability to be butchered. This gave forts starting off in extremely brutal areas a chance to get going, as the golems could potentially hold off initial undead / savage animals / thieves.
As it stands now, early defenses are limited to stone fall traps and war dogs, both of which seem completely useless. Perhaps slightly buffing one or both of those would help?
Perhaps golem creation could also be worked into the tech tree, with more advanced golems being researched, and only basic ones available at the embark or from merchants. They could also have different qualities, so some would not be strict upgrades over others. Maybe obsidian has more damage potential with blades on it, granite is tougher? Perhaps a difficult to build high tech one with some kind of range attack?
Golems wouldn't replace your militia or other defense options as you can't order them, they can't train, and can't use gear. Care would have to be taken to balance them, but it's an idea. Having one bog troll get through my traps only to butcher an entire nephilim caravan plus guards, and then all thirty dwarves I conscripted into the military and set to kill him made me really wish for some early defense with a kick to it. Granted, they were largely untrained and unarmed dwarves, but still.....I'm still watching them go at it as I write this after conscripting the entirety of my fort into the militia, and the troll is healing as fast as he is hurt. He now has half a dozen scars, and basically every bone in him is broken, but it doesn't seem to phase him at all. I'm not sure how he can swing a club with two broken arms and two broken legs, to say nothing of the other injuries.
If caravans are ever fixed to bring their full compliment and wagons again, this would be somewhat less of an issue as they would have more guards and animals, as well as bringing much needed materials to an early fort. Still, bog trolls are complete death machines and can't really be handled by a militia unless they have some training and decent gear, neither of which a fort has to begin with.
Another way to mitigate this could be to limit the frequency and amount of migrants. I don't know if it's DF2010 or this mod but I seem to get boatloads of the idiots showing up very rapidly, which naturally brings the bigger threats along. I don't know if migrants can really be controlled, as I don't remember a mod ever doing it. This is probably the single biggest issue - without constant migrant waves, sieges wouldn't show up until later, giving more time to prepare traps, forge weapons, and train militia. This would also make individual dwarves more important, as well as medicine, as replacing dwarves would be more difficult. I really like the idea of caring about dwarf wellbeing. Of course, if forts grow more slowly they would have a greater need for early protection, too.
Perhaps have another race that attacks early, but in smaller numbers or smaller individuals, and move bog trolls up the threat timeline a bit? Perhaps a race that doesn't use items, and relies on natural weapons/defenses, so they could provide a threat without giving the fort any resources upon defeat.
Anyway, some ideas. And tears.
TLDR Bog trolls beat my ass, boohoo.
I can knock their triggers back a bit. I'm looking into possibilities for civilizations to fill the gap.
1) A weak, equipment-free race that attacks early. Fortress Defense does this, so I can probably get it to work as well.
2) A strong but peaceful race whose caravan guards would be formidable.
3) A new underground, tribal race. I haven't played with this idea yet, but I have some ideas.
Post by: Alem on May 21, 2011, 03:41:33 pm
Post by: Carn on May 21, 2011, 04:06:37 pm
Dreams of mechanized dwarven death machine legions are crushed. So sad. Well, perhaps merchants/embark golem guards would still be a possibility. Or more powerful animals. The golem idea I like simply because it's easier to balance - you can't breed them. You pay for what you get. This also adds more value to trade caravans! Simply adding bigger guard animals could work too I suppose. Basically something to help fill in the gap before you have a trained and equipped militia.
How does war-training an animal work? It does change the animals stats, right? Perhaps a new kennel type building could be used to upgrade store-bought golems with advanced tech/magic? It could require higher tech parts to build the kennel/magic/tech upgrade building, even if you can't make the kennel require resources for training. Can workshops be made to deconstruct after use? Perhaps a small explosion, enough to break the upgrade building if it is made of out very fragile parts, but not enough to damage the golem or operating dwarf too much, would mean that this would be a significant investment each time. Perhaps it's both tech and magic, and as far as story goes, the sacrifice of the dwarf in the resulting explosion is necessary for the construction, as their spirit is transferred into this powerful new body.
So - siege weapons are hardcoded, and traps are hardcoded. Are all lever-activateable (or pressure plate) items hardcoded? Gears, floodgates, whatnot? If that isn't possible to modify for defense or heat production, would it be possible to add a delay on a new workshop? If the alchemy lab can explode, perhaps a new workshop could be made to generate heat on purpose. Even without a delay on it, it would be useful, you'd just have to sacrifice some beards to get the party started. (Probably don't want to set this to repeat...)
Are migrant chances/numbers hardcoded as well? I like having dangerous or even suicidal options for my dwarves such as alchemy or golem creation or suicide fire creation or whatever, but it feels easy to throw away migrant peasants when they flock to my doorstep.
I am excited about the possibilities of you mentioned. Also, I saw my first easter egg today and did a double take. Can't wait to find more!
Thanks again for your work!
Post by: Carn on May 21, 2011, 04:16:29 pm
For Carn, I have had elf caravans in vanilla bring me lions, tigers, and bears so they are definitely capable of bringing the heartier animal stock. I think it has to do with what area they end up making their cities in, I recall someone mentioning that if you manage to get them to settle in a jungle you have a chance of them bringing you a Tigerman to be your next mayor. I for one strongly support war animal options, as I found dogs woefully ill equipped to do more anything than distract the target while the dwarf attacks.
Thanks! I know I used to play with a mod in 40d that had more guard animals available from dwarves (giant beetles and such) which is also where I saw golems. I remember getting the elves to bring a variety of animals sometimes, it's just that 99% of the time they seem to bring only the rope reed cloth we all know and love. I've never had a tigerman mayor, that sounds hilarious. How does that even work? You can have non-dwarves as citizens?
If that's the case, perhaps that opens up some kind of mercenary option. I'm not sure how that would really work - as it stands now I guess you can only have things delivered in cages. Perhaps another modified trade depot that a mercenary liason would come to, selling contracts? With my luck trade depots are hardcoded as well.
At some point in the FAR future, perhaps toady will put in more diplomatic and military interations between civs, but for now.....like most things, I'm looking for workarounds.
Post by: Patchouli on May 21, 2011, 04:25:34 pm
Workshops can't be made to deconstruct after use. Burn, maybe.
You can't make a new kennel.
You can't add a true delay on a workshop. Only via workarounds, like a chance of making the dwarf using it unconscious, or burning a stone to make the workshop unusable.
Migrant numbers are hardcoded.
You can't modify trade depots.
Read the wiki to get a better idea about what's hardcoded.
Post by: TwilightWalker on May 21, 2011, 04:57:40 pm
Post by: Carn on May 21, 2011, 05:08:28 pm
Post by: Pan on May 21, 2011, 06:21:10 pm
Post by: narhiril on May 21, 2011, 07:57:56 pm
You could always use Warlord's Bonfire Mod (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=58806.0) for your personal fires. I'm currently sticking it in now with a few suggested edits to see if I can do that weaponized poison booze thing.
Toady has stated repeatedly that he plans to include this in the future. That combined with Warlord's very capable bonfire mod have led me to conclude that my own version isn't necessary.
Warlord's bonfires can be easily installed over LFR, as long as you remember to permit them in the entity_default file.
Dreams of mechanized dwarven death machine legions are crushed. So sad.
Not crushed entirely, but definitely delayed. The great thing about DF is that it's still very much in development. Every time a new version comes out, I get new tools for the LFR toolbox. Rest assured that I will monitor these developments closely and play with any new tokens that come out.
I am excited about the possibilities of you mentioned. Also, I saw my first easter egg today and did a double take. Can't wait to find more!
Thanks again for your work!
PM me about that easter egg. You're the first person to ever actually report finding one, and I'm curious what it was.
Or just post and spoiler tag it.
Post by: Alem on May 21, 2011, 08:00:11 pm
Post by: Carn on May 21, 2011, 08:10:22 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: TwilightWalker on May 21, 2011, 08:24:23 pm
The easter egg was aand I was very confused when I first saw it. Made me smile.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Heh, I just started this game up, and saw it too. Very interesting! I'll be on the lookout for more.
And yeah Narhiril, I wasn't suggesting it to you in particular, but mentioning it to those who keep asking of ways to do fiery stuff. :P
Edit: I currently have
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: narhiril on May 21, 2011, 10:06:35 pm
The easter egg was aand I was very confused when I first saw it. Made me smile.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Some more about that... (click to show/hide)
If anybody finds some more easter eggs, drop me a message or spoiler-tagged post here. Your reward will come in the form of some useless but sometimes amusing development information, and possibly some foreshadowing of future features or planned developments that I haven't yet publicized.
Post by: TwilightWalker on May 22, 2011, 01:27:07 am
Post by: narhiril on May 22, 2011, 02:25:18 am
Oh my God. Ladies and gents, don't perform the banshee funeral rites until you're alchemist is of excellent skill. I did it when I got a bit of ecto just to see what happend, and the sheer value of what came out, even at 'well-crafted' quality is rather...nice.
Banshees are quite rare - I only ever saw one during testing. But yes, this is good advice. It's meant to be a one-of-a-kind piece.
Post by: TwilightWalker on May 22, 2011, 02:39:09 am
Post by: darkflagrance on May 22, 2011, 05:29:38 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Patchouli on May 22, 2011, 05:49:26 am
Suggestion for Will o'wisps:Is it not possible to also make an ITEMCORPSE caste with a low population percentage?Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: narhiril on May 22, 2011, 02:24:07 pm
Suggestion for Will o'wisps:Is it not possible to also make an ITEMCORPSE caste with a low population percentage?Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I wrote that manual entry before I started playing with castes. That's how rare drops currently work. Only one or two creatures currently have them (incubi come to mind), with more planned for 0.13. It would not be difficult for me to implement that will o' wisp suggestion, either making them always drops hearts that sometimes react into remnants, or sometimes drop hearts that react into remnants more often. Expect it in the next release.
Oh, and while writing the raws for this, I discovered an unintended feature of will o' wisps that was causing nearby enemies to burn to death when fighting them (it was actually hot enough that it was destroying their drop, which was a problem). For the next version, they will use a new "cold flame" material template to better reflect the description in the manual.
Right now, I'm going to see what devious ideas I can come up with for the STATE_COLOR token.
Post by: sadron on May 23, 2011, 01:22:47 am
Post by: Alem on May 23, 2011, 01:51:19 am
Post by: Gearskull1 on May 23, 2011, 03:30:23 pm
Post by: narhiril on May 23, 2011, 03:33:37 pm
Hey, So i just stumbled apon this mod, and am eager to try it out but I'm having a weird issue. When I downloaded it, it seems to be in notepad format, and crashes when I open it. Is this an issue with my computer? I'm confused and any help would be appreciated, thanks!
This is a problem I haven't heard of before. What OS are you using?
Post by: Gearskull1 on May 23, 2011, 04:04:44 pm
Post by: utuki on May 24, 2011, 04:37:58 pm
Post by: narhiril on May 24, 2011, 05:06:41 pm
Just got sieged by bog trolls in year 2 with only 17 population O_O according to raws shouldnt they start sieging from 80 population like goblins ?
This seems to be an unwanted side effect of removing the [CAN_SPEAK] token. Unfortunately, it looks like I'm not going to be able to get inter-faction fighting (outside of random wars) and siege triggers to work properly at the same time with the current tool set. Since this is a much larger hurdle for a new fortress, I'll be putting the [CAN_SPEAK] tags back in. You can fix this problem yourself by adding [CAN_SPEAK] to creature_bog and creature_void (you will probably need to gen a new world for this to take effect).
EDIT (5:30pm central US): I'm home now, expect a new version to be uploaded within the hour. This will include the few necessary bug fixes and a few new (mostly hidden) features.
EDIT2 (5:59pm central US): Up and running. If you downloaded in the last few minutes (I don't think anyone did in this approximately 2-minute window, but just to be sure), please re-download because I accidentally left the new manual out of one of the files the first time around. The few known bugs should be fixed, and darkflagrance's will o' wisp suggestion has been implemented. A complete change log can be found in the manual. Thanks to everyone for feedback and bug reports!
Post by: darkflagrance on May 24, 2011, 11:15:47 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Just set the production and trade triggers higher than the pop triggers to reduce the chance that they will be triggered earlier. Also, CAN_SPEAK does not require a regen, if I recall correctly.
Post by: narhiril on May 24, 2011, 11:55:36 pm
I doubt that CAN_SPEAK is causing the early invasion of bog trolls. The ability to speak does not determine whether a civ follows PROGRESS_TRIGGER tags, in my experience. Either utuki started out not merely hostile but at war, which would tend to cause early invasions, or one of the progress triggers below was somehow met by his small fortress.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Just set the production and trade triggers higher than the pop triggers to reduce the chance that they will be triggered earlier. Also, CAN_SPEAK does not require a regen, if I recall correctly.
Triggers were changed, but I'm adding [CAN_SPEAK] back anyway.... mostly because dropping it wasn't causing the results I wanted.
Post by: utuki on May 25, 2011, 07:19:23 am
I doubt that CAN_SPEAK is causing the early invasion of bog trolls. The ability to speak does not determine whether a civ follows PROGRESS_TRIGGER tags, in my experience. Either utuki started out not merely hostile but at war, which would tend to cause early invasions, or one of the progress triggers below was somehow met by his small fortress.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Just set the production and trade triggers higher than the pop triggers to reduce the chance that they will be triggered earlier. Also, CAN_SPEAK does not require a regen, if I recall correctly.
I am not at war with them, had 33k created wealth and 1k exported.
Bog trolls seem hard to fight with that size advantage, they wipe out my 4 legendary dwarves with poor iron weapons and some armor easily : /
haha next season 2 squads siege arrived. season after that, 4 more squads. i now have 90 bog trolls and 10 normal trolls outside :D
Post by: Teach on May 25, 2011, 05:33:35 pm
Post by: narhiril on May 25, 2011, 05:36:32 pm
Are you planning to have vanilla dwarfs?
How do you mean? I have not modified the dwarf creature entries as of yet, though this may see some expansion in the future in the form of specialized castes.
Post by: Teach on May 25, 2011, 09:56:05 pm
Also, is ether any good for blunt weapons?
Post by: Alem on May 25, 2011, 10:55:06 pm
Post by: Putnam on May 25, 2011, 11:00:34 pm
or they decide to kill the bog troll invaders coming in
Post by: narhiril on May 25, 2011, 11:11:11 pm
Yeah, though I think specialized castes or overly powerful ones would go against the spirit of this mod (aside from the obligatory rare caste). I like that the dorfs in this mod are weak and grow in strength proportional to their tech. This mod has that really good "feel"to it. It somehow captures the atmosphere of games like Shadow of the Colossus and old platformer games where your tiny avatar faces off against large fire-breathing aberrations. I feel contempt toward squads of dwarves armed with iron spears and armor charging a megabeast after seeing 2 archers with javelin throwers blow a FB to bits in seconds.
Also, is ether any good for blunt weapons?
Not particularly. Ether is quite light.
And yes, javelin throwers are powerful, but the ammo is extremely expensive. They take 1/3 of a bar per shot, which adds up quickly. Also, they're quite valuable, so if you decide to pump out a bunch of javelins to prepare yourself for threats, you'll find that those threats become more severe more quickly - especially if you're using gold hammerheads. From a cost-benefit standpoint, they are an extremely poor weapon. One or two javelin throwers can be equipped for about the same cost as an entire squadron of crossbowmen. However, they do allow the power of an individual unit to greatly exceed what is possible with a crossbow. No matter how good your marksdwarves are, you'll never see one decapitate a bog troll with a bolt. For the same marksdwarves with some decent quality javelins, every shot will take a limb - but you'll run out of metal in a hurry if you try to equip too many of them.
If you're lucky enough to get a masterwork or artifact javelin thrower, though, putting your best marksdwarf on it can turn the tide of battle, especially against a single, powerful unit like a forgotten beast. There are situations where this is a better option, but there are also situations where crossbows will be a better choice. Because of this, I think it's both extremely powerful and balanced at the same time.
Totally random thought, but seeing as how you made the alchemist skill worth something now, any ideas to do something to make strand extractors do anything but twiddle their thumbs until cotton candy is found?
There are plans to use this skill in future tech tree developments. Like yourself, I feel that it's a skill that allows for some possible expansion.
Wait, are Nephilim supposed to be, well, usually hostile? I've genned about ~14 worlds with this mod, and in all of them, I've had Nephilim at war with no one. Also, they come in trading caravans that happen to not sell anything and, when they leave, they actually hang around in the depot until I kill them...
or they decide to kill the bog troll invaders coming in
They were originally planned as a hostile race, but are now friendly by default due to problems getting them to fight both the player and the other hostile races at the same time. They will now only attack you if their trade caravans keep getting killed, or if they declare war (randomly determined by ethics during worldgen).
They won't offer their goods to you because flying civilizations do not behave properly with the current caravan system (they abandon their pack animals, fly to the depot, "unload" and then realize that the stuff that they're "unloading" isn't there yet, so nothing ends up getting moved to the trade depot). They will come to your depot, but they will also leave if a path exists. If you are shutting a drawbridge (likely to keep those trolls out), they won't leave because of the weird way that DF calculates pathing for flying creatures. They will only fly over your walls if a ground path to the other side exists (or sometimes if they are very, very close to an enemy on the other side). If you really want them gone, break into the first cavern layer and they'll stroll out through there.
Post by: Putnam on May 26, 2011, 09:00:16 am
They were originally planned as a hostile race, but are now friendly by default due to problems getting them to fight both the player and the other hostile races at the same time. They will now only attack you if their trade caravans keep getting killed, or if they declare war (randomly determined by ethics during worldgen).
They won't offer their goods to you because flying civilizations do not behave properly with the current caravan system (they abandon their pack animals, fly to the depot, "unload" and then realize that the stuff that they're "unloading" isn't there yet, so nothing ends up getting moved to the trade depot). They will come to your depot, but they will also leave if a path exists. If you are shutting a drawbridge (likely to keep those trolls out), they won't leave because of the weird way that DF calculates pathing for flying creatures. They will only fly over your walls if a ground path to the other side exists (or sometimes if they are very, very close to an enemy on the other side). If you really want them gone, break into the first cavern layer and they'll stroll out through there.
I had a perfectly open route to the edge of the map, I broke into the first cavern layer, the second cavern layer, and HFS, and they didn't leave through all that.
Post by: narhiril on May 26, 2011, 02:51:29 pm
They were originally planned as a hostile race, but are now friendly by default due to problems getting them to fight both the player and the other hostile races at the same time. They will now only attack you if their trade caravans keep getting killed, or if they declare war (randomly determined by ethics during worldgen).
They won't offer their goods to you because flying civilizations do not behave properly with the current caravan system (they abandon their pack animals, fly to the depot, "unload" and then realize that the stuff that they're "unloading" isn't there yet, so nothing ends up getting moved to the trade depot). They will come to your depot, but they will also leave if a path exists. If you are shutting a drawbridge (likely to keep those trolls out), they won't leave because of the weird way that DF calculates pathing for flying creatures. They will only fly over your walls if a ground path to the other side exists (or sometimes if they are very, very close to an enemy on the other side). If you really want them gone, break into the first cavern layer and they'll stroll out through there.
I had a perfectly open route to the edge of the map, I broke into the first cavern layer, the second cavern layer, and HFS, and they didn't leave through all that.
Well I'm not sure what's wrong with them, then. I never encountered this problem in testing. Sometimes caravans (even default ones) behave in weird ways when one or more of their members dies. With the nephilim, this tends to be the pack animals.
I really wanted nephilim to fly, so much as I realize that the caravan AI doesn't quite work for them, I'm pretty adamant about leaving them the way they are.
Post by: narhiril on May 26, 2011, 04:49:40 pm
Finished
Some new easter eggs
A more efficient javelin caster unlocked through research (1/5 bar per javelin instead of 1/3)
In Progress
More tech tree advances, including a new material and armor set that will involve strand extraction.
Even more easter eggs
The mod's first foray into dwarven castes
Planned
A new, underground civilization, which will use a new language file
More rare drops
A few additional creatures
A new type of synthetic gemstone
A creature available for helping early fortress defense against goblins, bog trolls, and lizardmen.
I have some very interesting ideas for this update which I will release more information about as they take shape.
Post by: Alem on May 26, 2011, 05:54:53 pm
Post by: Patchouli on May 26, 2011, 05:58:43 pm
Post by: narhiril on May 26, 2011, 06:22:49 pm
The problem is that you can't specifically tell Nephalim to use those animals. You can sort of "force" them to use it via use of the GOOD/EVIL tags and changing the entity tags a bit, but it'll affect the player's variety in good/evil surroundings.
This is the reason I haven't done that, Alem. Tokens dealing with pack animals are not diverse or advanced enough to allow me to specify a single, specific pack animal for a given entity without radically altering a large number of other creatures (for example, I could remove "good" tokens from all other "good" pack animals, but this would mess up the wildlife in those biomes). I am hoping that, in the near future, Toady's "caravan arc" will bring with it new tokens or caravan AI to change this. Until then, I'm kind of stuck with the Nephilim caravans. I could make them hostile again, but it sounds like people are struggling enough with the new races without throwing another flying steel-clad enemy into the mix.
Bog troll siege triggers were moved back in 0.12b. Hopefully, this will put them in a position where they're easier to manage.
I'm working today on the raws for the new underground civ. This civilization will not be particularly powerful or organized, but is instead portrayed as a tribal race that worships the artifacts left in the underground by a far more advanced, extinct civilization that left the damascus sentinels behind. You won't find many objects of value in their camps, but you may find one carrying an item from that ancient civilization that your scientists could find interesting. I won't say any more about that, though.
Post by: darkflagrance on May 26, 2011, 10:15:37 pm
The problem is that you can't specifically tell Nephalim to use those animals. You can sort of "force" them to use it via use of the GOOD/EVIL tags and changing the entity tags a bit, but it'll affect the player's variety in good/evil surroundings.
What about combining EVIL and DOMESTIC on a pack animal? Then only an evil domestic using civ would use those creatures. You could give all the other domestic animals GOOD and DOMESTIC and make all other domestic user civs GOOD to achieve essentially the status quo for the other civs.
Post by: narhiril on May 27, 2011, 12:11:44 am
The problem is that you can't specifically tell Nephalim to use those animals. You can sort of "force" them to use it via use of the GOOD/EVIL tags and changing the entity tags a bit, but it'll affect the player's variety in good/evil surroundings.
What about combining EVIL and DOMESTIC on a pack animal? Then only an evil domestic using civ would use those creatures. You could give all the other domestic animals GOOD and DOMESTIC and make all other domestic user civs GOOD to achieve essentially the status quo for the other civs.
This would also have the effect of moving all wild [COMMON_DOMESTIC] creatures out of neutral biomes, wouldn't it? That's what I'm trying to avoid.
UPDATE: I've made some headway on castes. There will be four new castes in v0.13. These castes will not differ physically from regular dwarves, but will have [SLOW_LEARNER] tokens and a single, very high natural skill. They are also fairly rare, and their influence on your fortress will be subtle, but not insignificant.
Post by: Alem on May 27, 2011, 03:40:26 am
Post by: narhiril on May 27, 2011, 05:56:28 pm
Lustrum Extractor
-requires advanced mechanisms and a rare product of documentation
-allows conversion of lustrum into large quantities of fuel
-slight risk of a syndrome from reaction
-can produce more items to allow for more workshops ("unlocks" itself)
Aside from the last "unlock" reaction, this building is already in 0.12b as a preview.
Advanced Casters
-magma and normal versions
-produce javelins at a more efficient rate - 15 javelins only requires 3 bars (normally 5).
-requires an advanced casting device (constructed at advanced mechanics workshop) and a different rare product of documentation.
-can produce more items to allow for more workshops ("unlocks" itself)
Experimental Materials Workshop
-requires a rare product of documentation.
-can produce more items to allow for more workshops ("unlocks" itself)
-produces hadrine, a high-density alloy of mithril, tungsten, and steel, which also requires ash and fuel.
-hadrine is not technically a metal, so it is produced in blocks and cannot be melted
-hadrine blocks can be turned into hadrine thread by a strand extractor.
-hadrine thread can be woven into a hadrine mesh by a weaver.
-a hadrine mesh and three advanced mechanisms can be turned into a new type of plate mail or helmet. These are extremely protective, more so than anything short of adamantine, but also extremely heavy.
-production of hadrine has a chance of producing a rainbow diamond as a byproduct. Since the cost of each hadrine reaction is fairly high, this chance is significant (25%). Rainbow diamonds are a high-value gem that will be used as an "unlock" for tier three advances down the road.
Post by: narhiril on May 27, 2011, 10:15:21 pm
--------
-A fix for the kobold starving bug. This is not mod-related, but since I will be replacing the creature_standard file, I figured I might as well just fix it myself.
-A new underground civilization called the Moroii, named for phantoms of Romanian folklore. More on them later.
-The aforementioned tier two tech advances.
-Some new easter eggs.
-A new domestic creature, the carbuncle, with an associated hidden feature.
-Rare drops for leviathans.
-Meowkin and Nephilim diplomats, similar to those of humans. This feature still needs a LOT of testing. My hope is to completely replace Nephilim caravans, which are kind of dysfunctional, with diplomat visits, but I don't know if this is possible yet.
-Dwarven savants. Occasionally, a dwarf will be born with a learning disability, but an extremely high natural skill in weaponsmithing, armorsmithing, alchemy, or bowmaking. Caste-level creature descriptions will reveal when this occurs.
-Two new creatures, the Humbaba and Amarok, based on different world mythologies, are planned, but have not yet been coded.
--------
If you have information pertaining to custom diplomats, or any other suggestions for this release, please feel free to post them.
Post by: Carn on May 28, 2011, 11:39:59 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKmqPyuv0vo
I laughed so very hard.
Post by: narhiril on May 28, 2011, 11:44:31 am
First thing I thought of when I heard "dwarven savant"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKmqPyuv0vo
I laughed so very hard.
One of the caste-level descriptions references that :P
Also, I've finished up the graphics and raws for everything creature-wise except the carbuncle, which I hope to finish later today. Leviathans now have a chance of dropping a "rusty iron sword," which is a slightly weaker version of the gladius, and is there mostly for entertainment value and speculation on how it ended up there. A future easter egg reaction may use this as a reagent. Humbabas and Amaroks turned out a lot better than I expected, as well.
Moroii are a race of subterranean people with extremely wrinkled, white skin and huge, black eyes. They wield a limited assortment of bronze weapons and wooden helmets and shields. While not advanced, the moroii use a unique language, and roam the depths searching for relics of the civilization that created the damascus sentinels, whom they revere as gods. Periodically, a moroi may be found in possession of one of these relics, which can provide an alternative method of advancing the "tech tree," or another, more unique opportunity.
The diplomats are the only feature I'm a bit concerned about, and will probably consume the bulk of the testing time. Other than them, things are shaping up nicely, and well ahead of schedule. What that means for you guys is that now is an excellent time for suggestions.
Post by: Eagle_eye on May 28, 2011, 04:48:31 pm
Post by: Teach on May 28, 2011, 06:00:53 pm
Post by: narhiril on May 28, 2011, 07:12:37 pm
Yea I played through one long and awesome fortress and then couldn't start another because it kept crashing on the embark screen.
I love this mod, but I find it difficult to get very far as I have a crash at least twice a year. Is anyone else experiencing similar problems?
Try turning TrueType off. It's got some kinks that haven't been fully worked out yet. It doesn't usually cause problems for me, but it's different for different people. This can be found in init.txt.
Post by: SirAaronIII on May 29, 2011, 12:39:32 am
I love this mod, but I find it difficult to get very far as I have a crash at least twice a year. Is anyone else experiencing similar problems?Post the errorlog, please. Maybe me and my noob skills can help.
Post by: narhiril on May 29, 2011, 02:15:40 am
I love this mod, but I find it difficult to get very far as I have a crash at least twice a year. Is anyone else experiencing similar problems?Post the errorlog, please. Maybe me and my noob skills can help.
I'm guessing it's truetype because the errorlog for 0.12b was blank.
Post by: Carn on May 29, 2011, 02:35:15 am
Perhaps an alternative to cats for pest control? You could have one in addition to cats, but it could be more effective at vermin control and perhaps be less of a cute pet to give dwarves happy thoughts. It wouldn't be an upgrade, just an different choice. Faster perhaps, or flying, or both? Perhaps some dwarves could find them ugly or dislike them, to further balance them.
Of course, a *more* likeable pet, with less vermin hunting ability, could also be possible, something with universal appeal and some happy thought generation but no other utility.
Neither of those animal options would really change gameplay that much, but would offer a little variety in options for fort happiness and pest control.
Perhaps some additional subterranean animals that are tameable by dwarves? Or edit some of the creatures that already exist for that purpose? Giant worms, beetles, cave crabs, axolotl, bats? The pest control animal could fit here too I suppose. These would be largely meant to be improvements over basic animals that fill the same role. Livestock, resource production animals (wool, milk, etc), pest control, or war animals for defense. Since they are more dangerous to acquire they could be more efficient or powerful. This means that trapping, animal caretaking, and animal training would be a more important skill, and would effectively have a tech advancement option. Perhaps upgraded mechanisms (or another advancement) could be required for the traps to capture these creatures?
The early attacking but poorly equipped race possibility you mentioned as a possibility earlier would be fantastic. Since Bog trolls have moved to be a later threat, this would maintain an early (but not necessarily overwhelming) threat to work against early forts, without giving them much in return if they defeat them (no free items from weak enemies to sell or melt). Perhaps this is the plan for the moroii, but it sounds like they're meant to be an interesting addition and optional way to start the tech tree (which is a great idea, thank you!). If you have to breach the underground to see them, chances are they couldn't really be an "early threat" to work against. Ideally, this threat would be mostly able to be defeated by caravans without aid, so it would mean using wood, bone, obsidian, and leather items (or common metals) early would be useful for starting a militia and/or traps, rather than just waiting until a supply of iron or steel is available. This effectively increases the amount of metals and weapon/armor materials in the game without having to add them in the mod, since (to my experience) no one bothers making equipment out of weaker materials as a general rule. Perhaps I'm mistaken, but that has been my impression. It forces the player to scrape together more desperate means of combat early. Once they have a trained and equipped fighting force, or simply enough effective traps, this stops being a concern. The idea there is to keep the player on their toes early without beating them to the floor. Just something that would give civilian dwarves trouble, but crude weapons and armor with poor fighting skills would defeat.
Another possibility would be splitting the forge so that there are two: a common metals forge and a more powerful metals forge. One that could be used early, for making copper and bronze and the like, and one that requires a minor advancement in order to produce items of iron, steel, or better materials. Perhaps the upgraded forge could simply require more anvils and/or better quality anvils? The means by which this is made more difficult to acquire don't matter that much I suppose. It would be an additional way to force players to utilize weaker materials early and "tech up" by making more anvils or whatever they need to build the next forge. This would also make the player have to choose between outfitting their forces with as much copper / bronze / etc as possible or spending it on teching up and leaving themselves more vulnerable while they build or trade to get the parts needed. The cost to upgrade would have to be significant but not prohibitive in order to achieve that. Perhaps, instead of requiring anvils, it requires some other part made form the basic forge in the same manner that you've used for other tech advances. This would mean that the player would not be able to directly trade for the advancement, and would need to manufacture them, taking and materials to do so. The materials could perhaps be traded for, so that if you were on a map with only more powerful metals you could still use them. For instance, if you started surrounded by iron or mithril but lacked any weaker metal like copper or silver, you could trade for the weaker metals just to upgrade. This would also have the addition of making trade more vital, again encouraging players to keep their forts open for business and defended rather than walling themselves in right away.
Did the "sapper" idea pan out? Can gremlin tags be added to other race castes or creatures that could accompany a race (as trolls do on goblin sieges) to provide that additional threat of trap dismantling or lever pulling?
Anyway, there are some ideas. Hopefully there is something inspiring there.
Post by: nordak on May 29, 2011, 02:51:18 am
Post by: narhiril on May 29, 2011, 05:00:50 am
How is compatibility with df therapist? This will be my first run of this mod, just wanted to ask in advance.
Fully compatible. All labors used in this mod are easily toggled with dwarf therapist. The one exception is non-medical training workshops, since you cannot toggle those skills at all, dwarf therapist or otherwise. These buildings are better controlled using permitted workers in the workshop profile - left uncontrolled, any idle dwarf will go train there if training is queued as a task. In the case of the obstacle course, that may actually be for the better.
Perhaps an alternative to cats for pest control? You could have one in addition to cats, but it could be more effective at vermin control and perhaps be less of a cute pet to give dwarves happy thoughts. It wouldn't be an upgrade, just an different choice. Faster perhaps, or flying, or both? Perhaps some dwarves could find them ugly or dislike them, to further balance them.
Of course, a *more* likeable pet, with less vermin hunting ability, could also be possible, something with universal appeal and some happy thought generation but no other utility.
Very possible. I can get started on something to this effect very shortly.
Neither of those animal options would really change gameplay that much, but would offer a little variety in options for fort happiness and pest control.
Perhaps some additional subterranean animals that are tameable by dwarves? Or edit some of the creatures that already exist for that purpose? Giant worms, beetles, cave crabs, axolotl, bats? The pest control animal could fit here too I suppose. These would be largely meant to be improvements over basic animals that fill the same role. Livestock, resource production animals (wool, milk, etc), pest control, or war animals for defense. Since they are more dangerous to acquire they could be more efficient or powerful. This means that trapping, animal caretaking, and animal training would be a more important skill, and would effectively have a tech advancement option. Perhaps upgraded mechanisms (or another advancement) could be required for the traps to capture these creatures?
That last bit, unfortunately, requires new furniture and trap raws (which are not possible right now). The rest of this suggestion is both very possible and very constructive. Given a little time, I think I can get some first generation creatures that fill these roles.
The early attacking but poorly equipped race possibility you mentioned as a possibility earlier would be fantastic. Since Bog trolls have moved to be a later threat, this would maintain an early (but not necessarily overwhelming) threat to work against early forts, without giving them much in return if they defeat them (no free items from weak enemies to sell or melt). Perhaps this is the plan for the moroii, but it sounds like they're meant to be an interesting addition and optional way to start the tech tree (which is a great idea, thank you!). If you have to breach the underground to see them, chances are they couldn't really be an "early threat" to work against. Ideally, this threat would be mostly able to be defeated by caravans without aid, so it would mean using wood, bone, obsidian, and leather items (or common metals) early would be useful for starting a militia and/or traps, rather than just waiting until a supply of iron or steel is available. This effectively increases the amount of metals and weapon/armor materials in the game without having to add them in the mod, since (to my experience) no one bothers making equipment out of weaker materials as a general rule. Perhaps I'm mistaken, but that has been my impression. It forces the player to scrape together more desperate means of combat early. Once they have a trained and equipped fighting force, or simply enough effective traps, this stops being a concern. The idea there is to keep the player on their toes early without beating them to the floor. Just something that would give civilian dwarves trouble, but crude weapons and armor with poor fighting skills would defeat.
I will look into some possibilities here. The moroii are not intended to be a true "hostile" race as much as a curious race that you can interact with (read:kill) as an alternative means of technical advancement. Though they aren't very powerful, they also won't go looking for you - you'll have to dig down to the second cavern level or lower to find them. While I like the idea, the amount of testing involved with each new civilization I add means that this probably won't make it into 0.13 (or at least not into 0.13a), but is a development for the near future.
Another possibility would be splitting the forge so that there are two: a common metals forge and a more powerful metals forge. One that could be used early, for making copper and bronze and the like, and one that requires a minor advancement in order to produce items of iron, steel, or better materials. Perhaps the upgraded forge could simply require more anvils and/or better quality anvils? The means by which this is made more difficult to acquire don't matter that much I suppose. It would be an additional way to force players to utilize weaker materials early and "tech up" by making more anvils or whatever they need to build the next forge. This would also make the player have to choose between outfitting their forces with as much copper / bronze / etc as possible or spending it on teching up and leaving themselves more vulnerable while they build or trade to get the parts needed. The cost to upgrade would have to be significant but not prohibitive in order to achieve that. Perhaps, instead of requiring anvils, it requires some other part made form the basic forge in the same manner that you've used for other tech advances. This would mean that the player would not be able to directly trade for the advancement, and would need to manufacture them, taking and materials to do so. The materials could perhaps be traded for, so that if you were on a map with only more powerful metals you could still use them. For instance, if you started surrounded by iron or mithril but lacked any weaker metal like copper or silver, you could trade for the weaker metals just to upgrade. This would also have the addition of making trade more vital, again encouraging players to keep their forts open for business and defended rather than walling themselves in right away.
Did the "sapper" idea pan out? Can gremlin tags be added to other race castes or creatures that could accompany a race (as trolls do on goblin sieges) to provide that additional threat of trap dismantling or lever pulling?
Anyway, there are some ideas. Hopefully there is something inspiring there.
Forge reactions are hard coded, but hadrine (a new feature of the tech tree that will be in 0.13) attempts to do something along these lines. Voidshard was initially planned to only be available through a complex and dangerous reaction chain using a claimed voidshard item, but this was undermined by the hard-coded behavior of metals to be melt-able at a smelter. Hadrine gets around this because it is technically a typeless inorganic material instead of a metal, but this also means that hadrine cannot be used for anything outside of the few specific reactions designed for it.
I have attempted to stagger the metals by making high-level metals (iovium, mithril, damascus steel, ether, voidshard) much more difficult to obtain than simply smelting an ore. Iovium requires extra fuel, and is extremely scarce. Mithril is fairly rare, but also highly impure, requiring four ore and five reactions to produce a single combat-grade bar. Damascus steel is only available through a complex reaction chain, involving the smelting of iron into pig iron, the smelting of steel using pig iron, iron, and flux, and then the alloying of steel with vanadium (which also has to be smelted). Ether is a chance product with all of alchemy's associated risks, and is unreliable when trying to outfit more than a single unit (and it also can't be used for armor). Voidshard is simply melt and then forge, but you'll have to liberate it from its extremely vicious owners in order to get your hands on it. Adamantine is the ultimate risk-reward, because mining it runs the risk of dooming your entire fortress (if you're not very, very, very prepared). Hadrine will fill a role somewhere in the ballpark of ether, except it is only available for two unique armor pieces, and requires a LOT of tech advances and reactions to produce. Hadrine armor is the most protective armor you can get short of artifact Adamantine plate mail, but it is also very, very heavy.
I feel that trade caravans already play an important role, because they can bring limited quantities of these materials when you do not have the capability to make them yourself. The dwarven caravan can even bring orichalcum for the first tier tech tree advancement upon request. I expect further developments in the caravan arc, including the reimplementation of wagons, to make these even more important opportunities. A single new token could open up an entire world of possibilities. For example, a token multiplying the price of trader goods would allow me to create a race that could "sell" tech advances for exorbitant prices without causing weird side effects of toggling the actual item's values... Actually, scratch that. I just had an idea for a roundabout way that I can accomplish a similar effect in the current version. Woohoo, another idea for 0.13 (or maybe 0.14). Unfortunately, buying one of the items would not devalue it, but this could be a built-in mechanism to discourage buying too many tech advances, lest the voidwalkers come knocking a bit sooner.
As for sappers, I have put together a special caste of lizardmen to fill this role, though I am unsure how well the AI will utilize it. It will probably not make a noticeable difference in sieges, but thieves of this new caste arriving at the same time may be able to get through and cause mayhem... Or open your main gates, if you're not careful.
Post by: nordak on May 29, 2011, 10:50:16 am
Post by: Carn on May 29, 2011, 12:42:35 pm
Started playing... Unfortunately I found a DF path bug... not related to the mod. Just had a cliff all my dwarves jumped off of, so I was unable to get much of a feel of it... All dwarves died to "Accidents" before summer...
Best fort ever?
Narhiril, you're right, you already make the new high tier metals difficult to obtain. I was just trying to think of ways to stretch the tech progression out a bit more by encouraging the player to start out using the very weakest of materials. Anyway, I'm glad you found some useful or inspirational ideas somewhere in that block of text I left!
Post by: narhiril on May 29, 2011, 08:40:45 pm
Post by: narhiril on May 30, 2011, 11:34:51 pm
EDIT: Fixed. v0.12c is up. There are no other changes to this version, so if you're enjoying v0.12b, there's no need to upgrade just yet, but know that this change will persist in future versions of this mod.
Also, for future reference, don't ever give a creature [MEGABEAST] or [SEMIMEGABEAST] and forget to give it an attack trigger. I just had an amarok show up and annihilate my fortress before the first migrant wave. Test fortress 2, here we go...
Post by: Pan on May 31, 2011, 09:49:27 am
By the way, just a suggestion, but perhaps you should ask and incorporate the bonfire mod in here for the next update? It would convenience many things.
Post by: narhiril on June 01, 2011, 02:01:52 pm
Lizard man opening main gates if your 'not careful'? Could you have simply added some lever pulling tag to it?
By the way, just a suggestion, but perhaps you should ask and incorporate the bonfire mod in here for the next update? It would convenience many things.
I'll see if I can get a hold of Warlord for that.
I've also learned a bit more (through trial and error) about the artifact system. It appears that dwarves will first check their (random) preferences for weapon types, then if nothing matches, they will randomly select one from the permitted list (ARGH!). This is resulting in mood weapons being much, much rarer than originally intended. In order to get a mood weapon, you need to get a dwarf who happens to have a bizarre preference to raise his weaponsmithing skill up higher than other mood skills, then pray that he gets a strange mood. This is still possible, but much, much harder than originally conceived.
In order to make these extremely fun types of weapons more readily available, I am adding another tier two tech advancement - the Advanced Weapons Concept Laboratory. This workshop will perform a "research" reaction that can kick out a random weapon from a given weapon-grade metal. This will take a fair amount of time to write the raws for, but I'm confident that I can still meet the target date of late June/early July for 0.13a. Expect some screenshots of this shortly.
Here are a few testing screenshots.
Spoiler: A carbuncle, up and right of the X (can barely be seen, but it's there) (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: An alchemical experiment gone... awry. (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: The advanced mechanics lab, enhanced (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: This thing rolled through my first test fortress... (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: The top of T2 (click to show/hide)
Post by: Alem on June 01, 2011, 09:36:26 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: narhiril on June 01, 2011, 10:09:43 pm
Just ran into an odd hiccup with what might be an easter egg, so spoilering itSpoiler (click to show/hide)
That is an easter egg, but the lack of a prefstring is not intended. Thanks for the update, I'll go ahead and revise that creature entry.
Post by: Alem on June 02, 2011, 04:54:35 am
Post by: Pan on June 02, 2011, 09:09:33 am
By the way, any thoughts on them animals?
Post by: narhiril on June 02, 2011, 10:10:54 am
Carbuncle? I google'd it, but all I got was some pages on skin diseases or something ???
By the way, any thoughts on them animals?
Google "carbuncle mythology." It's unfortunate that a skin disease happens to share the same name lol.
I haven't gotten round to many other new creatures yet. So far it's carbuncles, amaroks, and humbabas. I intend to do more, with some more emphasis on different roles in Dwarven societies (economics, livestock, vermin hunters, etc), but I've spent the entire night hammering out and testing raws for the Weapons Concept Laboratory and I think I've finally got the probability numbers where I want them. Rest assured, creatures are the next (and probably final) piece of the puzzle for this version, but they require a fair bit of testing and time to write and to do sprites for. Things are pretty much on schedule so far, so expect some new creature information over the next few days.
Also, don't ever mix up product number and [PRODUCT_DIMENSION], especially with thread, or you'll end up with 15,000 queued hauler jobs. Fortunately, dfautodump is your friend. Glad I caught that one before release >.>
Post by: Carn on June 02, 2011, 10:15:47 am
Heh, you answered while I was typing my post. So yes, what he said.
Post by: narhiril on June 02, 2011, 10:39:43 am
Carbuncle is a mythical creature that looks something like an armadillo with a ruby growing in it's face. Although maybe Narhiril used his own interpretation? Only way to find out is to play the next release.
Heh, you answered while I was typing my post. So yes, what he said.
My version is fluffier. But the gem on the forehead is still there.
Post by: Alem on June 03, 2011, 01:54:24 am
I just checked my raws and the reaction is there, and the reaction is permitted. Everything looks identical to the other reactions, which I have available. Its only surgery missing, which is rather confusing.
Post by: narhiril on June 03, 2011, 03:50:43 am
Just noticed the Medical Training Dummy doesn't have the train surgery option. If that is intended nevermind, just read in the manual that it is supposed to be everything but diagnostics :)
I just checked my raws and the reaction is there, and the reaction is permitted. Everything looks identical to the other reactions, which I have available. Its only surgery missing, which is rather confusing.
I'm having trouble reproducing the issue. It's working fine on my end. Check the errorlog?
Also, is it appearing in the manager screen?
Post by: Alem on June 03, 2011, 04:53:10 am
Post by: Carn on June 03, 2011, 06:26:51 am
http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/Civilization_Forge
Post by: narhiril on June 03, 2011, 01:52:47 pm
I'm still tweaking the numbers, but I've got something that's roughly working the way I want it. This workshop will be unlocked with an item produced in documentation, making it a "tier two" building. Though the item required is a chance product of documentation, it is significantly more common than most of the other unlocks, meaning that beginning documentation reactions will unlock this building pretty quickly.
These are the exact reaction raws:
Spoiler: Documentation (click to show/hide)
Obviously, there is a duplicate reaction for the magma alchemy lab. The "treatise" and "theory" are currently unused, but are planned for future developments or easter egg reactions. The "concept" tool unlocks the weapons concept laboratory. The other unlocks are fairly obvious by their names.
The first number, in case you're not familiar, is the percent chance per reaction. This may seem very low, but you have to remember - if you have even a single training workshop from tier 1 operating, you will be pumping out enough slabs of accreditation to put this reaction on repeat (set n' forget). In testing, unlock times have been variable, but generally very reasonable. It usually takes only a few seasons to unlock the more common tier 2 advances, but it can take several workshops and several years to get them all unlocked. There is technically a possibility that you will unlock them sooner, or never at all, but these chances are so remote that I won't expect them to affect gameplay in a negative way. If they do, for some reason, I have alternative methods of unlocking them in mind for future versions.
In testing, it took me about a year of game time after training reactions started to unlock the experimental materials workshop (the rare one) on average, which I think is very reasonable.
---
But back to the new stuff - the weapons concept lab. How this is currently working is...
1) It takes three bars of a specified metal and fuel (if non-magma).
2) It produces a random "mood" weapon of that material about 50% of the time. Roughly 40% of reactions will yield no product (failed concept). Roughly 10% will produce more than one weapon. Many weapons available from this reaction are significantly more powerful than their plain counterparts to balance out the risk.
3) Individual metals use different reactions, to prevent you from getting useless products. For example, the iovium reaction will never produce an edge weapon, and the adamantine reaction will never produce a blunt weapon. Though probabilities differ slightly, they roughly follow the 50-40-10 ratio.
4) It uses the weaponsmithing skill to determine quality.
There are two versions of this workshop - one with magma, one without.
Post by: Carn on June 03, 2011, 06:55:38 pm
Or are they strictly a higher tech option for later game (ie: only use rare materials)
I guess it doesn't matter, either way they seem like a fun idea.
Post by: narhiril on June 03, 2011, 08:02:21 pm
The weapon labs sound like an excellent addition to the tech tree, and I'm excited to try them out! Do they exclusively use the higher tiers of metal or are they just better forges for weapons (with a risk of producing nothing at all)? Meaning, if you had an overadundance of mediocre metal (more than you need to outfit your militia) you'd still use the laboratory because you can afford to waste materials for superior gear.
Or are they strictly a higher tech option for later game (ie: only use rare materials)
I guess it doesn't matter, either way they seem like a fun idea.
They will accept any weapons-grade metal. If you can make a weapon out of it at a forge, you can use it for weapons concepts. Obviously, a copper zomgsword (there isn't really a zomgsword, but I don't want to give any of the possibilities away) isn't going to rock as hard as a steel zomgsword, but you aren't restricted to using expensive metals. However, the possible reward for risking valuable metals is much greater. I did, however, try to cull the weapons based on metal properties (so you won't ever get an adamantine blunt weapon or a silver edged weapon). I felt that the three bar requirement plus a chance of failure was risk enough without pumping out useless weapons.
I thought it was a fun and thematically fitting way to make all of the weapons a little more accessible without flooding the forge with new permitted weapon types..
Post by: Carn on June 03, 2011, 10:23:51 pm
Post by: narhiril on June 04, 2011, 01:58:19 am
Spoiler: The first ever mood weapon (click to show/hide)
Post by: Pan on June 04, 2011, 07:55:26 pm
Cuz three of my recent migrants have some extremely high toughness and durability, and since I already have a couple other squads of assorted weapons, I thought it may be interesting if I could have some around-the-city-entrance-corner tankers. (running speed doesn't matter in close confines).
Post by: SirAaronIII on June 04, 2011, 09:05:30 pm
Post by: narhiril on June 04, 2011, 11:09:48 pm
Yes, he has, I think. It's pretty hard to get though. I don't remember the exact details on how to get it.
Hadrine didn't make it into 0.12. Lustrum did (alternate fuel source), but hadrine is a new material for 0.13a. It does not occur naturally, so you'll have to create it in the experimental materials workshop (also in 0.13a).
I had a nephilim diplomat show up, so I'm considering the test fortress a success. One or two more last minute additions, and 0.13a will be out within a week or two.
Post by: Pan on June 05, 2011, 04:00:56 am
I'm quite finicky, and I could waste up to two hours looking for a good embark site, and even then, I usually get disappointed or bored after a year or two, or something happens that disillusions me. This is the first fort in a couple months that I have kept up for a couple of years and not given up, so I thought I'd ask.
Post by: Alem on June 05, 2011, 04:14:54 am
Post by: Pan on June 05, 2011, 04:19:38 am
Post by: narhiril on June 05, 2011, 04:57:46 am
I wouldn't beleive so, as when you add new things into the raws you need to generate a new world for them to show up. There is a mod supposedly that lets you put them in to running worlds, DF world tinker I beleive its called, but I was unable to use it successfully and ended up slagging a very profitable fort.
Nuts... :(
It's an inexact science, but hadrine is not actually a natural mineral, so it won't have any effect on existing stone layers. The problem is that entity changes usually require a new world. You could give it a try with tinker, but I can't make any promises. Unfortunately, that's the way it is right now.
If it makes you feel any better, I use to be VERY picky about embarks, but the sheer number of new test builds I've had to load has changed that. I tend to just embark in the middle of the desert now and grab wood and water from the first cavern level (or aquifer, if available). I like my maps nice and flat.
Post by: Pan on June 05, 2011, 08:11:07 am
If it makes you feel any better, I use to be VERY picky about embarks, but the sheer number of new test builds I've had to load has changed that.
What modding will change in a man, eh? Actually, thinking on your part, it must be quite a bore embarking from scratch everytime you need to test a new feature... Another reason modding was something I never really paid any attention to.
Are you considering that golem idea Carn bought up a couple weeks ago? I recall the idea was that they can't breed, and can only be bought from caravans, and are good for defending embarks. Cuz I feel like winning in a melee fight against voidwalkers.
Also, I think it will make the game more interesting if you could add some dwarf domesticated animals. It would be interesting to have a livestock with very high quality meat (sugar beetles or something), but big grazing needs. And perhaps some dwarf domesticated cave animal (can't think of anything atm though) that would be a little more useful as a war animal than a dog?
Post by: narhiril on June 05, 2011, 10:27:16 am
If it makes you feel any better, I use to be VERY picky about embarks, but the sheer number of new test builds I've had to load has changed that.
What modding will change in a man, eh? Actually, thinking on your part, it must be quite a bore embarking from scratch everytime you need to test a new feature... Another reason modding was something I never really paid any attention to.
Are you considering that golem idea Carn bought up a couple weeks ago? I recall the idea was that they can't breed, and can only be bought from caravans, and are good for defending embarks. Cuz I feel like winning in a melee fight against voidwalkers.
Also, I think it will make the game more interesting if you could add some dwarf domesticated animals. It would be interesting to have a livestock with very high quality meat (sugar beetles or something), but big grazing needs. And perhaps some dwarf domesticated cave animal (can't think of anything atm though) that would be a little more useful as a war animal than a dog?
These are both fantastic ideas that will probably round out the lineup for 0.13a. I am deliberately withholding golems until the next version of DF because I have some ideas for those that will involve the new features in that.
And I actually managed to fight off a voidwalker ambush squad with zero casualties yesterday. It took a squad of well trained and well equipped (damascus steel and some hadrine and mithril pieces) soldiers, but it is possible to beat them. Even fighting a larger number of them, it is possible to win, though it is a costly affair in most cases. They're meant to be very challenging. Even though they're immune to fear, traps, and pain, there are ways to defeat them.
1) A well geared and well trained military. I wouldn't even look at them without steel or better.
2) Slightly superior gear (adamantine - which has its own risks).
3) Indirect means. Repeating spikes, cave in devices, drops, magma. Note that voidshard is not magma safe (in fact, it blows up in a cloud of extremely dangerous fumes when heated to magma's temperature).
Post by: Teach on June 05, 2011, 03:28:16 pm
Also, I'm not sure if it's possible but perhaps a novelty caste would be an ultra rare dwarven android or clockwork dwarf. Make them immune to pain and fear and perhaps change all their organs into machines (not sure if it's possible) and have them bleed black oil or teal coolant or something like that. You allude to an advanced civilization that was wiped out before the current Civs came to be that left behind many artifacts. Perhaps this clockwork dwarf was put in place by the progenitors of the dwarven race to oversee their development before they all mysteriously disappeared.
Post by: darkflagrance on June 05, 2011, 03:49:45 pm
Post by: narhiril on June 05, 2011, 06:11:41 pm
I myself absolutely cannot stand an embark that is not flat. It's mainly just an aesthetic for sieges because I like to see the enemy off in the distance as opposed to having to go observe their movements with the z level keys. I had an idea for post endgame content while playing adventure/dwarf mode yesterday. I have a really mature fortress with about 20 legendary marksdorfs, around 20 conscripts (of varying skill), and a squad of 10 super soldiers (most have triple digit kill counts) and they seem to wipe out most sieges relatively easy. Anyways, later I was playing Genesis ADV mode as a giant and I noticed that they take years to bleed out (yes it is this peculiarity that inspired me). I was thinking a race of hyperadvanced giants with their own unique material (without armor they would just be huge pinatas full of blood).
Also, I'm not sure if it's possible but perhaps a novelty caste would be an ultra rare dwarven android or clockwork dwarf. Make them immune to pain and fear and perhaps change all their organs into machines (not sure if it's possible) and have them bleed black oil or teal coolant or something like that. You allude to an advanced civilization that was wiped out before the current Civs came to be that left behind many artifacts. Perhaps this clockwork dwarf was put in place by the progenitors of the dwarven race to oversee their development before they all mysteriously disappeared.
I have big plans for after the next DF release. The new tokens and syndromes will allow me to do some very interesting things with creatures and castes for the next version.
As for post-endgame content, it's something I have given a considerable amount of thought to. The voidwalkers are the most obvious challenge, but there are (growing) number of other surprises in LFR to that extent, but that's all you're going to get out of me about that right now.
Post by: Pan on June 06, 2011, 02:40:05 am
However, I noticed a Nephilim archer was doubling back (the siege caught the back of the long caravan, and the archer was in front), so I thought that, since I had nothing to do with the gate sealed, I'd watch him die. Turns out, he began to fire at the bog trolls in the air, and killed 4 of them! (Of course, he then charged downwards after his ammo ran out to bash the Bog Troll leader on the head with his bow, swiftly getting evicerated. But before this, the bog trolls could do nothing!)
Anyway, after that I started wondering if, perhaps you could mod in a ranged weapon that's good in melee, and remove most of their current melee weapons? and After all, they are supposed to be some great empire of fallen angels anyway, so making them more powerful would make sense. It would be quite a challenge when they eventually come and siege you cuz since they can fly up z levels, they can target the usually invincible, 1 z-level higher marksdwarves (who are only vulnerable to elite marksmen). After all, if you could fly, why use weapons like swords and axes anwyay?
It probably wouldn't even be overpowered, since they don't get pissed off till late game (unless you act stupid), where you'll have a good military going.
Post by: narhiril on June 06, 2011, 09:08:00 am
Today I just noticed how amazing the Nephilim's archers can be. There was a small siege of a single squad of bog troll pokers when the Nephilim 'merhants' showed up, and they immediately bull rushed the 'caravan'. The bog trolls had (if i recall) copper and bronze stuff while the Nephilim melee guards had steel and some bronze stuff. The melee guards were immediately defeated, though they moderately wounded a few, failing to kill a single bog troll.
However, I noticed a Nephilim archer was doubling back (the siege caught the back of the long caravan, and the archer was in front), so I thought that, since I had nothing to do with the gate sealed, I'd watch him die. Turns out, he began to fire at the bog trolls in the air, and killed 4 of them! (Of course, he then charged downwards after his ammo ran out to bash the Bog Troll leader on the head with his bow, swiftly getting evicerated. But before this, the bog trolls could do nothing!)
Anyway, after that I started wondering if, perhaps you could mod in a ranged weapon that's good in melee, and remove most of their current melee weapons? and After all, they are supposed to be some great empire of fallen angels anyway, so making them more powerful would make sense. It would be quite a challenge when they eventually come and siege you cuz since they can fly up z levels, they can target the usually invincible, 1 z-level higher marksdwarves (who are only vulnerable to elite marksmen). After all, if you could fly, why use weapons like swords and axes anwyay?
It probably wouldn't even be overpowered, since they don't get pissed off till late game (unless you act stupid), where you'll have a good military going.
Out of curiosity, did he have a great bow? Nephilim and elves have access to different, more powerful bows than other civilizations. Of course, nephilim actually use metal arrows, so they're a fair bit more dangerous than standard archers, though nowhere near void energy projector territory.
I've found through testing that they're already quite challenging foes. Even voidwalker ambushes don't always kill them smoothly. However, I'm reluctant to turn up the power dial on them, seeing as their role is mostly to provide tentative ambush relief. I don't want them doing all of the work for you, after all. Against a more competent siege force, they won't win with just their caravan guards.
That doesn't mean, however, that hybrid melee-ranged weapons are out of the question. There's still a lot to be done with the tech tree ;)
---
Putting the finishing touches on two new creatures today. One will be a vermin hunter that does not adopt its owner.
Spoiler: Are you ready for it? (click to show/hide)
The other will be a less common creature found in the caverns that can be tamed and used as a powerful war animal.
Post by: narhiril on June 06, 2011, 11:55:53 am
Current changelog for v0.13a (subject to final tweaks, but fairly complete):
Added nephilim and meowkin diplomats. Added carbuncles, a new common domestic creature. Added dwarven savants - more details on this later. Added the second tier of the "tech tree," including five new buildings and lots of associated reactions. Added new easter eggs. Added new graphics for relevant creatures. Added the moroii, a new underground tribal race. Added rare drops for more creatures. Moved bog troll siege trigger back slightly. Took the opportunity to fix a bug with kobolds that was causing them to starve to death by year 4 of worldgen. It is now possible for players to purchase tame tortoises at embark. Pet value for tortoises has been adjusted for this purpose. Added amaroks and humbabas. Added jackalopes and sabre-toothed tigers. Added a caste of lizardmen which carry mischievious behavior tokens. Removed a special caste of pigeons from the arena spawn list. Resolved an issue causing widow's tears to appear as black squares.
Tier 2 tech tree:
Buildings
Advanced Metal Caster
Advanced Magma Caster
Experimental Materials Workshop
Weapons Concept Laboratory
Magma-Powered Weapons Concept Laboratory
Experimental Lustrum Energy Extractor
Reactions
Efficient javelin casting
Random weapon fabrication
Hadrine synthesis and reactive armor
Unlock reactions for new buildings
Spoiler: Tech tree flowchart (large image) (click to show/hide)
Post by: Mandango on June 06, 2011, 05:17:49 pm
Post by: Hoooooooar on June 06, 2011, 06:18:34 pm
On my first fort i had a d.steel epic line going i found a map with ferrorstuff, coal, and gold, it was amazing. I had a city built on gold, and an army with nothing but d.steel suits, i had about 60 or so dwarves just about to be drafted up and begin training when the first epic invasion came. I was accustomed to the little ambushes which my 20 man city guard at the front dealt with rather nicely, however when the first "big" one came........ well the 20 guards went down with great easy, taking a considerable amount of lizards and trolls with them, one almost master speardwarf fought off the horde while the rest of everyone ran to the armory and grabbed what they could, by the time the trolls and lizards made it past the cage traps their numbers had decreased but there were easily 30 or so left, my rag tag army, well armed army, but still green managed to defeat them, a once glorious clean city built out of gold with a population of 270 dwindled to 68 after the epic battle. The crybabies found their way to magma heaven while everyone else was happy enough living in a city of gold and each having a golden apartment and masterpiece meals and drinks. My 3 man team of legendary mechanics went to work to replace the traps, but as it was happening a glorious merchant arrival spurred on another wave, this time voidwalkers were involved. The entire populace immediately rallied to the baron's room (former room, it was converted into a mass graveyard) for the last defense, extremely well armed this go round the voidwalkers were defeated, the population has fallen to a new epic low of 30 something and little did i know that there was an army of trolls hanging out near the front door, eventually they worked their way down to the final battle where the remaining 30 dwarves met their demise at the hands of some trolls. I tried to reclaim but that wasn't happening with the massive massive massive amount of everything thrown all over the place, all 280 apartments had cab's and chests, all gold. and they were everywhere. I don't use any cheats except for dfdig, because there is no sense in manually mining out a vein, i dont consider it a cheat anyways :0
I plan on starting a new game tonight and maybe the 60 or so people can train on those mechanical dummies for a while, put a bunch of them in the meeting hall so bored dwarves can at least train up for the wave that will come eventually.
Post by: Pan on June 06, 2011, 08:13:45 pm
I've tried a lot of the other mods but i think i like this one the best, keep up the great work. This stays close to the core game.
I agree. The mod is very original with the tech tree. Many mods strive to add tons and tons of new fauna, civs, and weapons that, while is great and very nice of those authors, feels pretty old for me after awhile.
Post by: Pan on June 08, 2011, 09:10:41 am
Post by: narhiril on June 08, 2011, 09:57:43 am
Unintentionally awkward criticisms aside, I just had a bog troll siege at my second Spring. I'm using 0.12a, but is this intentional?
There have been a substantial number of changes to them since 0.12a. At the time, they were supposed to do that and use weaker weapons to compensate, but I decided based on feedback that it was better to give them their metal weapons back and move their siege triggers back substantially.
If you're set on using 0.12a, you can get rid of them by removing all of the [ACTIVE_SEASON] tokens from their entity raws. This change, unlike most entity changes, does not require a new worldgen. Though I wouldn't get too attached, as I'm planning to have 0.13a up and running this weekend, and it runs circles around 0.12.
Also, I'm ditching TrueType until it gets fixed (according to Baughn, it's much better in the next DF version). Some of the items involved in the tier 2 tech tree have very long names, and this was causing a TrueType-related crash on some occasions. Though most of you have probably already done this, it will be turned off by default for the next version.
Post by: thatkid on June 08, 2011, 12:57:52 pm
I'm using tanmod, wanderer's friend, a slightly modified version of kobolds, and a replacement for dragons that I made if that matters at all.
Post by: SirAaronIII on June 08, 2011, 02:35:09 pm
Post by: Alem on June 08, 2011, 02:47:55 pm
Post by: thatkid on June 08, 2011, 02:57:35 pm
Yeah, that's a known thing. It's because the nephilim fly ahead of their pack animals or something.Ah, alright. I'll rationalize it as a Nephilim military squad stopping in at an ally's base while on patrol, then. This makes even more sense in the story-I write in my head as I play, because my fort would have been wiped out by a goblin ambush a moment ago had the nephilim not been visiting.
On a side note, it would appear that the Kobolds are stealing voidshard during worldgen (or otherwise acquiring it somehow) because I've killed two thieves with voidshard daggers so far. No complaints on that, the little guys can use all the help they can get and I like to picture some poor cutebold thief slipping through voidwalker defenses to steal some of the stuff.
Post by: narhiril on June 08, 2011, 04:02:47 pm
Just out of curiosity, is it intentional that bog trolls and void walkers are sending thieves as of 12c? Not that there is anything wrong with it, just recalled they weren't doing that before (and the voidwalker thieves come totally unarmed).
Yes. Voidwalker thieves are unarmed because they do not have a permitted dagger-type weapon. I'm still debating whether or not I want to leave this the way it is or not. I think I might go ahead and give them a type of dagger. Even if they're still basically fodder, you'll have to kill a fair number of them to get even a single voidshard bar's worth of melt objects.
Not sure if this has been reported already or not, but Nephilim traders bring items but refuse to actually trade them.
I'm using tanmod, wanderer's friend, a slightly modified version of kobolds, and a replacement for dragons that I made if that matters at all.
That's, unfortunately, a problem I can't solve without removing the [FLIER] token altogether. The justification you used is consistent with the lore file (how I imagined it). Perhaps in the future, caravan scripting will be modified to accommodate flying civilizations, but that's something that's beyond my ability to do with the raws.
On a side note, it would appear that the Kobolds are stealing voidshard during worldgen (or otherwise acquiring it somehow) because I've killed two thieves with voidshard daggers so far. No complaints on that, the little guys can use all the help they can get and I like to picture some poor cutebold thief slipping through voidwalker defenses to steal some of the stuff.
Curious. I have seen kobolds with steel before, but this is the first time I've heard of them getting their hands on voidshard. I don't think I'll make any effort to change this - I also kind of like the idea of a particularly lucky one of them pilfering a voidwalker outpost, and I highly doubt it will significantly augment their limited combat capabilities.
Oh and I'm changing the poll, seeing as v0.13a is almost finished and just requires a few more days of testing and polishing. Expect a release by Saturday or Sunday.
Post by: Alem on June 08, 2011, 06:14:08 pm
Post by: Pan on June 08, 2011, 06:21:19 pm
That's, unfortunately, a problem I can't solve without removing the [FLIER] token altogether. The justification you used is consistent with the lore file (how I imagined it). Perhaps in the future, caravan scripting will be modified to accommodate flying civilizations, but that's something that's beyond my ability to do with the raws.
Maybe you could give the pack animals they have flier tags? Like, special pack animals only available to them?
Post by: Patchouli on June 08, 2011, 06:50:42 pm
Post by: Pan on June 08, 2011, 10:20:51 pm
Post by: Patchouli on June 08, 2011, 10:25:08 pm
Post by: Patchouli on June 08, 2011, 10:25:36 pm
Post by: Pan on June 08, 2011, 10:34:50 pm
Discussion regarding pack animals with more elaboration: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=84186.msg2301682#msg2301682
Don't let my snarkiness (that's snarkiness, right?) get to you or anything. I just act like that for the heck of it.
So uh... weekend release, is it? Can't wait!
Post by: SalmonGod on June 09, 2011, 03:47:14 pm
Post by: Pan on June 10, 2011, 06:16:18 am
And one of my marksdwarves just oneshot a bog troll in the head with a goat bone bolt, sending his beakdog mount running around riderless. Pretty cool.
Post by: narhiril on June 10, 2011, 08:05:40 am
I'm using 0.12a, and noticed my chief doc is not performing an autopsy with a corpse, but with a stone, then an endless reaction with the slab of accreditation it produced (using the slab to create another slab, gaining exp in the meantime). If you think this is present in 12c, then perhaps you should fix it before you release 13a?
And one of my marksdwarves just oneshot a bog troll in the head with a goat bone bolt, sending his beakdog mount running around riderless. Pretty cool.
Yeah, there seems to be a problem with using corpses in reactions. I changed it over to just take vermin remains in 0.12b, and cut out the "cremate corpse" reaction until I can figure out what's wrong with it. It's not present from 0.12b onward.
I've got a lot of things to do today that are unrelated to DF, but I just need to package and upload the files for 0.13a and edit the main post. I think I can get around to it later today.
(http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/2637/lfrmoroii.png)
Post by: narhiril on June 10, 2011, 02:32:35 pm
Post by: Pan on June 10, 2011, 09:09:40 pm
By the way, what makes sabre tooth tigers so formidable? Cuz I don't think they can stand up to, say, an armored lizardman or goblin. Maybe mod those sabre teeth to be as strong as a weak sort of metal? (copper?)
EDIT: Just tried in the arena, pitting a sabre tooth tiger against an iron equipped goblin. The tiger was mangled and bruised all over, but won. Sure is better than your average wardog, anyway.
Post by: thatkid on June 10, 2011, 10:25:03 pm
One thing I have noticed though, is that the meowkin are about on par with nephilim and voidwalkers during the Worldgen. In fact, in the three worlds I've generated they actually have more megabeast kills than the other two races (not combined though). From looking at the lore files, it seems like the nephilim and voidwalkers are supposed to be fairly powerful, but the meowkin should probably be on par with humans/elves since they're just cat-people who are slightly unhinged.
I'm not sure how you'd go about it, because their size doesn't appear to be the issue, but perhaps it would be a good idea to tone them down a bit? Unless that sort of thing is intended.
Post by: narhiril on June 10, 2011, 10:48:39 pm
Downloading now.
By the way, what makes sabre tooth tigers so formidable? Cuz I don't think they can stand up to, say, an armored lizardman or goblin. Maybe mod those sabre teeth to be as strong as a weak sort of metal? (copper?)
They're quite large - much larger than dwarves or war dogs. Actually, they're significantly larger than grizzly bears or damascus sentinels (but damascus sentinels still pound the stuffing out of them).
They're not tide-turningly powerful, but they're a significant upgrade to war dogs. Against a group of 5-8 trogdolytes, a group of 3-4 sabre-toothed tigers would usually win without casualties, whereas an equivalent number of dogs would be slaughtered. Against a copper-equipped (armor and weapon) goblin, the outcomes were less consistent one-on-one, with the one landing the first decisive hit usually winning. Two tigers would just about always beat a goblin, though. I distinctly remember seeing one tear a lung through a copper breastplate during testing.
These were the test results I got from playing around with (and ultimately settling on) their size. The best way to get a feel for them, however, is to pull open the arena and try them out yourself. :)
I've only been using this mod for about two days now, but it's pretty awesome. I just lost a kobold camp to a nephilim siege composed of lancers (the battle itself was a part of Bellum Contiger, the War of Lancers), and since I've only played adventurers so far (save for a single dwarf fortress that only lasted up to the third migrant wave before a misplanned mining operation caused the fortress to flood while I wasn't paying attention) I haven't gotten much of a chance to see all the features but it still has been really awesome.
One thing I have noticed though, is that the meowkin are about on par with nephilim and voidwalkers during the Worldgen. In fact, in the three worlds I've generated they actually have more megabeast kills than the other two races (not combined though). From looking at the lore files, it seems like the nephilim and voidwalkers are supposed to be fairly powerful, but the meowkin should probably be on par with humans/elves since they're just cat-people who are slightly unhinged.
I'm not sure how you'd go about it, because their size doesn't appear to be the issue, but perhaps it would be a good idea to tone them down a bit? Unless that sort of thing is intended.
First of all, I'm glad you're enjoying it!
The problem you mentioned with meowkin was much more exaggerated in earlier versions. It seems to be based more on population than size or strength. I found that extending the childhood and shrinking the "litter" size of the meowkin brought their world gen domination down to the on-par level that they are now. On the occasions that nephilim and voidwalkers are at war with them, however, I have noticed (albiet from a limited sample size) that the meowkin don't match up nearly as well as they do in megabeast-slaying.
There will likely be further tweaks to the effect of reducing their influence a little bit more in the future, but they're a lot better now than where they were when I started. I appreciate the feedback, though, as it gives me information and perspectives that are difficult for me to get from testing.
In other news, I managed to inject the experimental weapons lab into an old save from a previous test build using zilpin's dfworldtinker, which means I don't have to start that fortress over, so I know what I'll be up to this weekend.
Post by: Pan on June 12, 2011, 09:47:48 am
Post by: Merijeek on June 12, 2011, 12:04:29 pm
Can anyone explain to me what to do with the accreditation certs?
-Joe
Post by: thatkid on June 12, 2011, 01:28:57 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Also, how do you go about making your tech trees? I noticed today that Kobold Camp has an 'altar' building that doesn't actually do anything, and I've been considering adding a religion-based tech tree with various rituals for my own use (and I guess I'd probably throw it over towards the KC thread so anyone who wants it can grab it), but I don't even know where to begin.
Post by: Patchouli on June 12, 2011, 01:51:51 pm
-Custom instruments/toys that are used as regents in a workshop.
-Custom materials that are used as regents in a workshop.
Toys and instruments can be dropped by monsters or churned out as a product in a reaction, which can then be used as a regent for a different reaction when you have five of them or something similar. Material reaction products/classes can be used to do the same thing.
Post by: narhiril on June 12, 2011, 02:10:25 pm
Another thing I've noticed is thatkeep showing up as dead on my unit screen, without my ever having seen them or breached the caverns. I'm not sure why this is, or if it's already been reported, but I just thought I'd give you a headsup that they're maybe burning alive in the magma layer or something somehow?Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Also, how do you go about making your tech trees? I noticed today that Kobold Camp has an 'altar' building that doesn't actually do anything, and I've been considering adding a religion-based tech tree with various rituals for my own use (and I guess I'd probably throw it over towards the KC thread so anyone who wants it can grab it), but I don't even know where to begin.
Yeah... they're fighting other stuff down there. While they're very strong, they don't hold out forever. I don't know how to make them non-hostile to certain randomly-generated creatures that they're fighting with. I wish they wouldn't show up in the units list because it hints at one (well, actually, quite a bit more than one) of LFR's biggest secrets, but it won't really affect anything because their population is functionally unlimited, so more will eventually show up even if some die. Trust me, you'll know when you find one.
The tech tree is done, as Patchoulli says, by requiring custom items (generally tools and toys) for workshop constructions. LFR uses a chain of these (which is getting increasingly complex) to create different "levels" of the tech tree. These special items are obtained by...
1) Acquiring them from a creature drop (i.e. damascus sentinel)
2) Acquiring them from a rare creature drop (i.e. moroii)
3) Requiring a special material to produce (i.e. orichalcum)
4) Producing a chance product from a "research" reaction (i.e. documentation)
Loving the mod. Too bad about the Neph caravans.
Can anyone explain to me what to do with the accreditation certs?
-Joe
There is a reaction in the alchemy and magma alchemy labs called "document alchemical research" that takes ten of these slabs and produces one, functionally eradicating nine of them (the reason it does this is technical - reactions do not advance skills unless they produce a product of some sort). This reaction will train the organizer skill and remove the clutter that inevitably builds up around training workshops, but is also a method for unlocking further technical advances, since this reaction has a number of uncommon "chance" products needed for tier two workshops. For example, sometimes documentation will produce a "perplexing slab detailing the experimental synthesis of hadrine," which is needed to unlock the experimental materials workshop. The occasional masterwork slabs being destroyed in this reaction will not cause negative thoughts in their creators (I have personally and extensively tested this).
It's also worth noting that these items have extremely long names, which WILL cause crashes if you are using the current version of TrueType, so it is highly recommended that you leave that off until it is fixed in future versions of DF.
In case you're having trouble reading the full names, or if changing the layout of the screen is irritating, they all start differently...
perplexing = experimental materials
detailed = lustrum extractor
carved blueprints = advanced casters
hastily chiseled = experimental weapons
carved treatise = currently no function, planned for future developments
inscribed = currently no function, planned for future developments
Post by: thatkid on June 12, 2011, 02:28:23 pm
I'm going to start by having the shaman (or whoever is given the task of working at the altar) make fetishes out of bone and wood. These fetishes will then be used to perform rituals which will have a small chance of creating other items which can be used for more advanced altars, which will in turn allow for more advanced mystical tools to be made and thus more advanced rituals which have the potential to reward the user with even cooler miracles.
Post by: narhiril on June 12, 2011, 02:29:49 pm
Alright, cool. Thanks :D
I'm going to start by having the shaman (or whoever is given the task of working at the altar) make fetishes out of bone and wood. These fetishes will then be used to perform rituals which will have a small chance of creating other items which can be used for more advanced altars, which will in turn allow for more advanced mystical tools to be made and thus more advanced rituals which have the potential to reward the user with even cooler miracles.
Wait until 0.31.26 - that's when the real "cooler miracles" begin :)
But yes, essentially you have the concept of how the "tech tree" works figured out.
Post by: Merijeek on June 12, 2011, 03:21:03 pm
-Joe
Post by: narhiril on June 12, 2011, 06:33:31 pm
Actually, my question on the certificates was from the weapons and dodging training stations. Certs pile up, but how do they get used?
-Joe
Every training workshop produces slabs of accreditation from a successful training session. The production of these slabs is what makes training reactions work - it doesn't matter what skill a reaction uses, a dwarf will not gain any skill points unless the reaction produces a product. Skill gains are linked to the number of products: more products = more skill points. I discovered this the hard way when I accidentally set the experimental materials workshop to produce 15000 hadrine strands instead of one hadrine strand with [PRODUCT_DIMENSION:15000] - the strand extractor went from dabbling to +5 legendary in an instant, and the frame rate dropped about 10fps until I dfautodestroy-ed all 15000 of them. To be fair, it was very late and it was about my ninth test build that night.
So you will generate slabs of accreditation from the morgue, medical training dummy, mechanical sparring partner, and mechanical obstacle course every time they are used. Naturally, these pile up quickly and can cause performance hits both on your workshops and your framerate if not disposed of, so the "document alchemical research" reaction at the alchemy lab is there to get rid of them, nine at a time (well, ten removed and then one added back to train organization).
Unlike most other alchemy lab reactions, this reaction does not require the alchemy labor to be enabled, nor does it require fuel or have any risks associated with it. Any idle dwarf on the lab's permitted workers list (which is everyone by default) will perform the labor. If you are using a training workshop, you will probably want to build an alchemy lab nearby and set documentation to repeat. This will get rid of the slabs and "research" (read: randomly produce) the items you need for tier two workshops.
Slabs of accreditation are only used at the alchemy lab (document alchemical research). They have no other function. You can safely export or atom-smash them if you have no desire to use them for that research reaction. The reason they exist at all is because training workshops don't work without them, and they offered me a convenient way to stagger the tier two advances based on how much you utilize the tier one training workshops.
I hope I have answered your question. If not, I'm afraid you'll need to rephrase it for me. Glad you're enjoying it, though :)
Two voidwalker thieves during two seperate events just put my entire, iron equipped militia of 6 in the hospital. One's dead, the other trapped in barracks. I think the story behind voidwalker thieves shouldn't be 'to keep an eye on us', and more of 'infiltrators'.
I'll rename them next version :D
Post by: Merijeek on June 12, 2011, 09:03:32 pm
-Joe
Post by: narhiril on June 12, 2011, 10:33:25 pm
Right, got it. They do absolutely nothing but get created. I was thinking they had to get cashed in to produce XP or something.
-Joe
Ah, I see what you meant. Right, from a technical standpoint, it's the reaction that creates the slab that gives the experience and not the slab itself. I could have made the training reactions produce a rock instead for the same result, but I liked the way the slabs fit into being re-used for documentation. Plus, who doesn't have too many rocks lying around already?
Post by: Dohon on June 13, 2011, 03:33:02 am
Post by: Pan on June 13, 2011, 08:16:47 am
Post by: narhiril on June 13, 2011, 11:48:14 am
While I haven't played your mod yet due to time constraints, I did have a look at the mod documentation and this thread. My mind was boggled, then blown. The depth in the tech tree is just ... staggering. I'm deeply impressed and I'm looking forward to more of it!
It's going deeper. Like Leo DiCaprio. I hope you enjoy it as much as I've enjoyed putting it together.
So, narhiril, what are your plans (that you are OK with revealing) for the next release? Give some of us something to look forward to. :D
Here are some things on my mind for the next version...
I have some massive plans that, unfortunately, require the new features of 0.31.26 to work, so I'll probably hold off on the parallel "ritual" tech tree until then. What I can share is that this tree will be themed around ritual, offerings, and runic inscriptions, and will primarily (though not exclusively) use the engraver skill.
Those that have discovered the (literally) deepest secrets of LFR will find these greatly expanded for the next version. There are currently two of these hidden features, which will be expanded to six or more in the next version, with plans to utilize dropped items.
The two currently useless byproducts of documentation will have functions introduced.
Custom reactions that produce gloves currently don't work because there isn't a token to force them to create left and right gloves. Hadrine greaves, however, will be added.
I am experimenting with the idea of allowing the metal caster to produce siege ammo. If this is possible, it will probably make its way into the next version.
A method for creating rock bins. This will consume a large amount of stone.
Post by: thatkid on June 13, 2011, 04:19:56 pm
Post by: SirAaronIII on June 13, 2011, 04:52:49 pm
Post by: Pan on June 13, 2011, 09:56:37 pm
If you find some interest in the above idea, then I'll be looking forward to some fun with the prisoners in the arena. Dropping prisoners in with wild beasts/military gets really old after a while, (Another fight to the death with a tiger? *yawn*) and nothing would be more fun than dropping a group of goblins in with a (literally) live grenade.
Also, while we're on animals, it's been three years and I have not seen (much less caught) any of the sabre tooth tigers. :(
Post by: narhiril on June 13, 2011, 11:36:49 pm
I had an idea today when I saw the effects of a voidwalker dying. How about, for variety, adding in a tameable cave creature which releases poisonous fumes on death to use as a bio weapon? Like a glow scarab (from Cobalt Fortress, the forum game) or something. After all, if you've already added bio weapons in the flora section, why not one for fauna?
If you find some interest in the above idea, then I'll be looking forward to some fun with the prisoners in the arena. Dropping prisoners in with wild beasts/military gets really old after a while, (Another fight to the death with a tiger? *yawn*) and nothing would be more fun than dropping a group of goblins in with a (literally) live grenade.
Also, while we're on animals, it's been three years and I have not seen (much less caught) any of the sabre tooth tigers. :(
I can't make them wander onto your map, unfortunately. They're down there, but I don't know when they'll show up. I am considering ideas for another domesticated war creature which would be available on embark.
And if you want a living grenade, I can swing something along those lines. Do you prefer poison, frostbite, or fire?
Post by: sigefread on June 14, 2011, 12:34:37 am
For my question to what degree would this affect adventure mode. (As I am a fairly nostalgic person that likes to visit old fortresses (partly to scavenge amazing equipment partly cause I like to feel like a real adventurer learning about old ruins))
As for a request would you happen to be able to make it able to be toggled? As me and my brother both play this game and he really likes vanilla and I would rather not have to re install on a simi-daily basis.
Post by: Putnam on June 14, 2011, 01:02:41 am
It's a damn big update.
Post by: Patchouli on June 14, 2011, 02:12:33 am
I really like the sound of this mod but I am a bit hesitant. So if I may a question and a request.Just have 2 different DF folders, one for LoFR and one for Vanilla.
For my question to what degree would this affect adventure mode. (As I am a fairly nostalgic person that likes to visit old fortresses (partly to scavenge amazing equipment partly cause I like to feel like a real adventurer learning about old ruins))
As for a request would you happen to be able to make it able to be toggled? As me and my brother both play this game and he really likes vanilla and I would rather not have to re install on a simi-daily basis.
Post by: sigefread on June 14, 2011, 02:36:20 am
I tried that but the DF.exe always opens the original file (The one that isn't DF_(2)) So that doesn't quite work. Hmm sure there is a work around but my brain is pretty much shut off at 3A.M.I really like the sound of this mod but I am a bit hesitant. So if I may a question and a request.Just have 2 different DF folders, one for LoFR and one for Vanilla.
For my question to what degree would this affect adventure mode. (As I am a fairly nostalgic person that likes to visit old fortresses (partly to scavenge amazing equipment partly cause I like to feel like a real adventurer learning about old ruins))
As for a request would you happen to be able to make it able to be toggled? As me and my brother both play this game and he really likes vanilla and I would rather not have to re install on a simi-daily basis.
EDIT: Sudden stroke of (Possible) Insomnia induced brilliance.
Is it possible to add [FLIER] to only a gender of an animal? If so you could make a custom animal that was designated to a certain biome and only designate one of the genders casts as fliers. As an added bonus only designate that gender as being a pack animal from there make them both [good] and the race with the problems use only [evil] animals and designate the gender that can fly as both good and evil. Seeing as how only one gender will appear in the evil biome it will die out without causing much harm. (It would also keep the evil races from getting an animal they are not supposed to have) while they will still use the flying animal as the pack animal. Of course this all hinges on being able to designate tokens to the different gender castes. Though I think it would work because most races that use evil animals don't trade with you anyhow.
Example
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Sorry if my tokens are a bit off I'm really tired
Post by: Pan on June 14, 2011, 05:18:04 am
I can't make them wander onto your map, unfortunately. They're down there, but I don't know when they'll show up.
I'm just commenting on their rarity. It'll make their capture all the more sweet.
As for the exploding cave creature, I was thinking poison, like the glow scarabs in Cobalt Fortress. Like a corrosive poison that eats away the skin or something (not too overpowered). By the way, what are the symptoms of the voidwalker's posthumous attack?
Are you willing to share anything on those war trainable animals on embark? Like, are they some sort of dog? Giant insect?
Post by: narhiril on June 14, 2011, 11:44:37 am
I can't make them wander onto your map, unfortunately. They're down there, but I don't know when they'll show up.
I'm just commenting on their rarity. It'll make their capture all the more sweet.
As for the exploding cave creature, I was thinking poison, like the glow scarabs in Cobalt Fortress. Like a corrosive poison that eats away the skin or something (not too overpowered). By the way, what are the symptoms of the voidwalker's posthumous attack?
Are you willing to share anything on those war trainable animals on embark? Like, are they some sort of dog? Giant insect?Golem?(Oh wait, your saving this one for the update. :P)
I'm perusing lots of legends and mythical creatures for inspiration, so I can't say anything for sure just yet.
Voidwalker death cries cause brief disorientation (dizziness). It's not a long-term concern, but it's enough to stun a dwarf long enough for another voidwalker to get a shot in.
I tried that but the DF.exe always opens the original file (The one that isn't DF_(2)) So that doesn't quite work. Hmm sure there is a work around but my brain is pretty much shut off at 3A.M.I really like the sound of this mod but I am a bit hesitant. So if I may a question and a request.Just have 2 different DF folders, one for LoFR and one for Vanilla.
For my question to what degree would this affect adventure mode. (As I am a fairly nostalgic person that likes to visit old fortresses (partly to scavenge amazing equipment partly cause I like to feel like a real adventurer learning about old ruins))
As for a request would you happen to be able to make it able to be toggled? As me and my brother both play this game and he really likes vanilla and I would rather not have to re install on a simi-daily basis.
EDIT: Sudden stroke of (Possible) Insomnia induced brilliance.
Is it possible to add [FLIER] to only a gender of an animal? If so you could make a custom animal that was designated to a certain biome and only designate one of the genders casts as fliers. As an added bonus only designate that gender as being a pack animal from there make them both [good] and the race with the problems use only [evil] animals and designate the gender that can fly as both good and evil. Seeing as how only one gender will appear in the evil biome it will die out without causing much harm. (It would also keep the evil races from getting an animal they are not supposed to have) while they will still use the flying animal as the pack animal. Of course this all hinges on being able to designate tokens to the different gender castes. Though I think it would work because most races that use evil animals don't trade with you anyhow.
ExampleSpoiler (click to show/hide)
Sorry if my tokens are a bit off I'm really tired
Not flawless, but it does get me thinking. I'll do some experimentation along these lines.
Post by: thatkid on June 14, 2011, 05:11:22 pm
I imagine I just got lucky with the RNG (and outnumbered her greatly), because she was able to take off a dog's entire leg with her steel razor. That being said: Is that just so we can't get our hands on voidshard items by harvesting thieves or is there something wrong with my world and the voidwalkers aren't obtaining their special metal?
Edit: Two more revealed themselves after my forces were chasing the fleeing goblins from the entrance corridor. This time the dwarves didn't mess around, as they had goblins to hunt and the voidwalkers were just a mild distraction. After limbs went flying courtesy of the axedwarves, I checked to see what they had. Two razors, one steel one damascus steel.
I have no complaints about free steel, but if this is intentional may I ask how you ensured that voidshard knives weren't made?
Post by: narhiril on June 14, 2011, 06:55:51 pm
My dwarves just taught a voidwalker matron thief not to mess with The Tenacious Fortresses. She was revealed in the courtyard by one of our cats, and because there was a goblin siege right outside the door she had no escape paths. Within seconds my ten military dwarves had her cornered against a wall, and were administering a regular beat-down composed mostly of kicks to the face and gut. After a while they got bored, and with the dogs (and cougars and scorpions) holding her down, the axe-dwarf of the squad systematically removed every limb before beheading her.
I imagine I just got lucky with the RNG (and outnumbered her greatly), because she was able to take off a dog's entire leg with her steel razor. That being said: Is that just so we can't get our hands on voidshard items by harvesting thieves or is there something wrong with my world and the voidwalkers aren't obtaining their special metal?
Edit: Two more revealed themselves after my forces were chasing the fleeing goblins from the entrance corridor. This time the dwarves didn't mess around, as they had goblins to hunt and the voidwalkers were just a mild distraction. After limbs went flying courtesy of the axedwarves, I checked to see what they had. Two razors, one steel one damascus steel.
I have no complaints about free steel, but if this is intentional may I ask how you ensured that voidshard knives weren't made?
They do make voidshard ones, but it's random. Usually a voidwalker will show up with a few pieces of steel and damascus steel with some voidshard mixed in - however, since thieves don't carry shields or armor, it's just the dagger. Sometimes it will be steel, sometimes it will be damascus steel, and sometimes it will be voidshard.
Thieves are poorly armored, so they're not too difficult to take down with a few military dwarves, but they can pack a punch if you're unprepared. Voidwalker "razors" are a unique but statistically unremarkable type of dagger. They're not bad weapons (especially because the mechanical sparring partner allows you to train the dagger skill), but it takes melting down quite a few of them to get any metal.
I've noticed that chance products of documentation tend to pile up over long periods of time, and while they can be exported or used for buildings, most of the time they're just littering the workshop floors after you build the first workshop for each of them. I'd like to introduce some method for using them or just getting rid of them. Naturally, the first thing to come to mind was this (http://images.sodahead.com/polls/001120837/D20Serrano20Chop20US20Open2003_xlarge.jpeg), but I'm also considering other ideas.
Post by: Pan on June 15, 2011, 07:58:31 am
Post by: narhiril on June 15, 2011, 01:29:57 pm
Why give the voidwalkers steel? Why not just voidshard? Is it to give us more of a chance of defeating them?
Civilizations do weird things with metals. I found, during testing, that they always seem to show up with some assortment of the three best metals they are allowed. If steel and damascus steel were removed, they would show up with voidshard, iron, and tungsten, which was weird and made them much easier than intended. Steel and damascus steel were added to their permissions to partially resolve this issue.
I'm playing with some alternatives for this. I haven't explored what happens if I change their voidshard-generating reaction to another labor and forbid the furnace operator job. If this has the result of only giving them voidshard, I'll consider implementing it.
...But I do like the way that the mix of steel, damascus steel, and voidshard limits the amount of usable voidshard pieces obtained from defeating a single ambush, so I'm a bit inclined to leave them the way they are. They're still quite challenging, even for well-equipped and well-trained military dwarves. So I suppose the best answer to your question would be "sort of, but also to limit the influx of voidshard items to the player."
Post by: sigefread on June 15, 2011, 07:44:00 pm
Why give the voidwalkers steel? Why not just voidshard? Is it to give us more of a chance of defeating them?
Civilizations do weird things with metals. I found, during testing, that they always seem to show up with some assortment of the three best metals they are allowed. If steel and damascus steel were removed, they would show up with voidshard, iron, and tungsten, which was weird and made them much easier than intended. Steel and damascus steel were added to their permissions to partially resolve this issue.
I'm playing with some alternatives for this. I haven't explored what happens if I change their voidshard-generating reaction to another labor and forbid the furnace operator job. If this has the result of only giving them voidshard, I'll consider implementing it.
...But I do like the way that the mix of steel, damascus steel, and voidshard limits the amount of usable voidshard pieces obtained from defeating a single ambush, so I'm a bit inclined to leave them the way they are. They're still quite challenging, even for well-equipped and well-trained military dwarves. So I suppose the best answer to your question would be "sort of, but also to limit the influx of voidshard items to the player."
An Idea (Sorry if I'm bugging you I'm good with concepts not so much with actual modding) Voidwalkers are the only ones who can make voidshards without having to melt down things that are already in existence right? They also as far as I know have to go through the process of making it. Why not have a few different grades of it with names accordingly and make the the stats like weight sharpness etc different enough to be noticeable but close enough to not make any one better. From there you could have all of it be void gear but with the different levels of it it would still be hard enough to get a good amount to actually make anything out of it yourself. Just a thought to try and keep them more with the lore
Post by: Pan on June 16, 2011, 06:19:43 am
Post by: SirAaronIII on June 16, 2011, 12:20:05 pm
Post by: sigefread on June 16, 2011, 03:59:24 pm
What sigefread is trying to say, in case anyone didn't get it, is that since voidwalkers can only use the three best metal they can get their hands on, then why not mod in three different types of voidshards that have a slight difference (that causes them to be roughly the same), so the voidwalkers will use voidshards exclusively. (since the three different types of voidshard will be the best material for them, they won't touch anything below.)
But you would also want to make them different enough so they are not just copy pasted, Like for instance one type has better sharpness and is somewhat light weight making it better for edge and worse for blunt attacks or one is light weight but not very sharp making it useless for weapons but decent for armor. From there hope the AI for the voidwalkers makes the items accordingly or else this plan would back fire and it would be really easy to beat them half the time
Post by: thatkid on June 16, 2011, 05:20:47 pm
Well, no. Even if you made the voidshards better than each other in various categories each individual type would still need to be superior to all other metal on their own in order for the voidwalkers to use them. It wouldn't make sense from a tactical direction to use, say, lusterless voidshard for a reaver and glittering voidshard for a bastion but it would still be better than if they used damascus steel for those two things because the lusterless voidshard, though it has less of an edge than glittering voidshard, would still need to be superior to damascus steel in virtually every way in order to prevent them from swapping it out.What sigefread is trying to say, in case anyone didn't get it, is that since voidwalkers can only use the three best metal they can get their hands on, then why not mod in three different types of voidshards that have a slight difference (that causes them to be roughly the same), so the voidwalkers will use voidshards exclusively. (since the three different types of voidshard will be the best material for them, they won't touch anything below.)
But you would also want to make them different enough so they are not just copy pasted, Like for instance one type has better sharpness and is somewhat light weight making it better for edge and worse for blunt attacks or one is light weight but not very sharp making it useless for weapons but decent for armor. From there hope the AI for the voidwalkers makes the items accordingly or else this plan would back fire and it would be really easy to beat them half the time
(I'm using Lusterless and Glittering descriptors just because, the three types could be separated in any way)
Post by: sigefread on June 16, 2011, 09:02:08 pm
Well, no. Even if you made the voidshards better than each other in various categories each individual type would still need to be superior to all other metal on their own in order for the voidwalkers to use them. It wouldn't make sense from a tactical direction to use, say, lusterless voidshard for a reaver and glittering voidshard for a bastion but it would still be better than if they used damascus steel for those two things because the lusterless voidshard, though it has less of an edge than glittering voidshard, would still need to be superior to damascus steel in virtually every way in order to prevent them from swapping it out.What sigefread is trying to say, in case anyone didn't get it, is that since voidwalkers can only use the three best metal they can get their hands on, then why not mod in three different types of voidshards that have a slight difference (that causes them to be roughly the same), so the voidwalkers will use voidshards exclusively. (since the three different types of voidshard will be the best material for them, they won't touch anything below.)
But you would also want to make them different enough so they are not just copy pasted, Like for instance one type has better sharpness and is somewhat light weight making it better for edge and worse for blunt attacks or one is light weight but not very sharp making it useless for weapons but decent for armor. From there hope the AI for the voidwalkers makes the items accordingly or else this plan would back fire and it would be really easy to beat them half the time
(I'm using Lusterless and Glittering descriptors just because, the three types could be separated in any way)
I haven't quite gotten far enough along to get damascus steel or the current Void shard yet how big is the gap between the two? If from what I have read on here is true it should be large enough to change up the stats a simi-noticeable amount and still have it be better shouldn't it?
Post by: thatkid on June 16, 2011, 10:14:39 pm
I haven't really done any in-game testing, and I haven't really delved into the Forlorn Realms RAWs yet for fear of ruining any surprises for myself...so I don't know. But in order for it to work, I think you'd need them all to be fairly similar anyways with only basic changes.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I haven't quite gotten far enough along to get damascus steel or the current Void shard yet how big is the gap between the two? If from what I have read on here is true it should be large enough to change up the stats a simi-noticeable amount and still have it be better shouldn't it?
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Of course, this is all hypothetical and it all comes down to whatever narhiril decides to do. I'm interested in hearing what changing the skill of the reaction does, to be honest. If that works, I think it would be a lot more elegant of a solution and it would also open up some other interesting possibilities as far as customizing what materials, and maybe even items, an entity has access to.
Post by: narhiril on June 17, 2011, 01:48:01 am
Voidshard is currently a bit lighter than intended, coming in slightly lighter than mithril. It will likely be moved to be a midpoint between damascus steel and mithril in terms of weight. This will make blunt voidshard weapons a bit more effective. Its statistical comparison to damascus steel is a bit complex. It's about a 20% better armor material, but holds a much sharper edge. In testing, it slightly outperforms damascus steel as an armor material, but these effects are difficult to quantify.
My concern here is that I'm throwing a lot of time and attention at something that I'm not fundamentally convinced is broken. I could go in and add new variants of voidshard or play with the furnace operator job permissions, but I'm not convinced that the end result will be any better than what I've already got. The question is, how worthwhile is the complexity of these proposed changes to the game experience? Is it better to have an advanced race that has access to an exclusive material, but does not use it exclusively (current version), or is it better to force them to only use exclusive materials and weave complex and confusing webs of reactions to prevent the player from obtaining too much of it too fast? All in all, I feel like it's kind of a moot point, because voidshard is already outmatched by adamantine, so further efforts to complicate its acquisition are unnecessary.
From my perspective, I'm leaning a bit towards leaving things the way they are (aside from the slight voidshard stat tweaks). There are all sorts of reasons I can imagine why the voidwalkers would not use voidshard exclusively, especially considering that nothing is really revealed in the lore files about how voidshard is obtained. Perhaps even the voidwalkers cannot drum up unlimited reserves of the stuff, and so are forced to rely on strong but otherwise "primitive" alloys to round out their arsenals.
I don't currently feel that the proposed changes add enough to the immersion value of the game to warrant the added development time and complexity. By all means, I welcome new ideas, but that's my current perspective on it. I will go ahead and try tweaking reaction labors and furnace operator permissions to see what happens in the interim - at the very least, that's information that could be useful to other modders.
EDIT: It seems that the tweak to the furnace operator labor and custom reactions is something darkflagrance has already tested and employed in Fortress Defense. It *should* be possible to force the voidwalkers to only use voidshard for their metal equipment. The question of whether or not they should is another matter entirely, and is something I'll give some more thought to.
Post by: Pan on June 17, 2011, 02:17:14 am
(cotton candy really isn't hard to extract. Just carve fortifications into them before mining them out, and you won't breach HFS)
Post by: narhiril on June 17, 2011, 02:47:05 am
Hell, I couldn't care less about voidshard (or anything related to them) myself, since I usually go for the shiny blue stuff asap, and I'm only looking forward to the new animals you might add in the next update. EDIT: Oh, and also that whole ritual stuff. That too.
(cotton candy really isn't hard to extract. Just carve fortifications into them before mining them out, and you won't breach HFS)
It's going to be a busy weekend for me, but I should have some sort of a preview to that effect in the next few days.
Post by: Carn on June 17, 2011, 03:21:35 am
I haven't seen anyone else mention it, so they must be working. I just don't know how to make the dwarves get in them. This is the first time I've tried using them (in previous versions I was always steamrolled by bog trolls before I could build any).
What am I missing? Anyone?
EDIT: Sparring partner works fine. Obstacle course still troubling.
Post by: Pan on June 17, 2011, 03:23:08 am
Post by: Carn on June 17, 2011, 03:45:05 am
I can live with having to manually go in and pick what dwarves I want to use the sparring partners - I can just build different rooms for different weapon skills to make it easier. I'm really not sure what to do about the obstacle course though. I feel like I'm missing something since other people haven't mentioned trouble with them.
Or have others not built them yet either?
Post by: Pan on June 17, 2011, 04:28:47 am
By the way, narhiril, could you make your mod compatible with Pheobus graphics mod? Or Mayday? Cuz while I do like some sprites in Ironhand, I really dislike the floor tiles and the dark feeling it gives.
Also, I remembered back in Dig Dwarfier, there is a plant which takes a long time to grow, but can have a reaction for the plant to be pressed together (with a reaction) into a tower cap log. They were called Tower Husks, and the in game description for them were that they were a breakthrough on dwarven botanists. Anyway, the whole 'dwarven botanists' thing got me thinking, and perhaps you could add in this into your whole tech tree thing? Being able to grow wood would be advantageous in glaciers where lots of wood is needed for certain industries. I, for one, cannot live in glaciers or deserts (like, without a woodland bordering it) cuz I MUST have clear glass windows and constructions (aesthetics) and soap (I feel guilty whenever I have not prepared soap and I see a soldier get an infection). The caravan and cavern wood are just not enough for a big enough industry.
Post by: Carn on June 17, 2011, 11:31:30 am
Not entirely though, since SO MANY industries rely on wood, and plenty of important things can ONLY be made from wood. Even objects that can be made from other materials usually need wood to power furnaces in order to make them. In addition, it's often the only resource you have early besides stone. Wooden cages and stone mechanisms mean cage traps!
In 40d I refused to play unless I could start next to a surface source of lava - even with a 100% chance to find lava if you dig deep enough these days, I'm starting to think I'll go back to that.
Wood is so important even when you have lava nearby I don't really consider it cheating or nitpicking too much. Plus, building around a volcano feels pretty dwarfy. Magma makes everything better.
EDIT: Also, if the caravans ever get fixed, we'll be able to import a LOT more wood as well, especially since there are extra races in this mod that will trade.
Post by: narhiril on June 17, 2011, 12:22:04 pm
I think the wood problem is more because of the way the game can't distinguish between the amount of wood needed for a huge bed, and the amount needed to make a crossbow. If the game handled wood the way it handles metal and cloth (in pieces, with each bar/log/bolt of cloth being worth X resources) then much of the problem would go away.
Not entirely though, since SO MANY industries rely on wood, and plenty of important things can ONLY be made from wood. Even objects that can be made from other materials usually need wood to power furnaces in order to make them. In addition, it's often the only resource you have early besides stone. Wooden cages and stone mechanisms mean cage traps!
In 40d I refused to play unless I could start next to a surface source of lava - even with a 100% chance to find lava if you dig deep enough these days, I'm starting to think I'll go back to that.
Wood is so important even when you have lava nearby I don't really consider it cheating or nitpicking too much. Plus, building around a volcano feels pretty dwarfy. Magma makes everything better.
EDIT: Also, if the caravans ever get fixed, we'll be able to import a LOT more wood as well, especially since there are extra races in this mod that will trade.
Alternate sources of wood is something I'm exploring. If you find it, lustrum is a lucrative fuel source. I struck three veins of the stuff in my test fortress and once I unlocked the extractor, I never needed coke or charcoal again for years.
Beds from alternate materials is a planned future tech tree advancement.
Just built a sparring partner to test that - seems like the sparring partner works as advertised. It's just the obstacle course that's weird for me then. Anyone else have any issues with dwarves refusing to use the obstacle course?
I can live with having to manually go in and pick what dwarves I want to use the sparring partners - I can just build different rooms for different weapon skills to make it easier. I'm really not sure what to do about the obstacle course though. I feel like I'm missing something since other people haven't mentioned trouble with them.
Or have others not built them yet either?
This is a problem I've been unable to replicate. They work fine on my end. Are the reactions queuing? As in, can you tell the workshop to "run dodging course"? Dodging is not a permissible labor, so any dwarf should perform it unless otherwise specified in the workshop profile. Check the list of permitted workers and also check the bottom right corner of the workshop profile. If the minimum threshold is set above "dabbling," it will prevent any dwarves not already skilled in dodging from using the course.
Post by: Whivy on June 17, 2011, 01:14:20 pm
but i got a problem, i can tame any animals. Whenever i click on "tame large animal" i got nothing on my list (i have a fox, 2 rats, 3 wolves in cages, which are usually tamable, aren't they?)
Post by: narhiril on June 17, 2011, 03:42:48 pm
Great mod you made here narhiril =)
but i got a problem, i can tame any animals. Whenever i click on "tame large animal" i got nothing on my list (i have a fox, 2 rats, 3 wolves in cages, which are usually tamable, aren't they?)
Thanks! After a few minutes of examining raws, I think I've found your problem.
Rats are considered vermin, and so are considered small animals by taming. Wolves and foxes are both exotic pets, which require a dungeon master to tame. This is the way they are in vanilla, and I have not changed them at all. Since the dungeon master rarely (read: next to never) actually shows up in fortress mode, it is usually nearly impossible to tame these creatures in vanilla DF.
Fortunately, LFR allows you to appoint a dungeon master as soon as you get a mayor instead of waiting (usually in vain) for one to immigrate.
Post by: Whivy on June 17, 2011, 04:55:45 pm
The thing is, even with my dungeon master appointed (a immigrant with great animal training skill) and pleased (tomb, splendid room, candy, MTV shows...), i can't tame anything.
I'm surprise that i'm the only with that problem, which occured on my two differents computers.
Post by: narhiril on June 17, 2011, 05:27:48 pm
Thanks for the answer . hm, i have always played on the genesis mod, which made almost all animals tameable, that's explain why i didn't know they weren't without a dungeon master ^^
The thing is, even with my dungeon master appointed (a immigrant with great animal training skill) and pleased (tomb, splendid room, candy, MTV shows...), i can't tame anything.
I'm surprise that i'm the only with that problem, which occured on my two differents computers.
I was able to track down this link (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=2036)
It seems that the results are mixed. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Fortunately, there's a workaround.
I was also able to track down this (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=59411.0) utility, which will comb through your raws and remove all of the exotic tokens. I don't *think*this change requires a regen, but I'm not 100% sure. This tool should not cause any problems with LFR.
Post by: sigefread on June 17, 2011, 06:36:44 pm
Post by: Whivy on June 17, 2011, 07:31:28 pm
Thanks for the answer . hm, i have always played on the genesis mod, which made almost all animals tameable, that's explain why i didn't know they weren't without a dungeon master ^^
The thing is, even with my dungeon master appointed (a immigrant with great animal training skill) and pleased (tomb, splendid room, candy, MTV shows...), i can't tame anything.
I'm surprise that i'm the only with that problem, which occured on my two differents computers.
I was able to track down this link (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=2036)
It seems that the results are mixed. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Fortunately, there's a workaround.
I was also able to track down this (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=59411.0) utility, which will comb through your raws and remove all of the exotic tokens. I don't *think*this change requires a regen, but I'm not 100% sure. This tool should not cause any problems with LFR.
Thanks, i'll try this tomorrow. If i remember correctly, this needs a fresh start to works, but whatever, dwarf fortress is a game that you can star over easily!
Post by: narhiril on June 17, 2011, 07:44:58 pm
Interesting thing happened I breached HFS and there where no "Fun" new pets. First I thought I had just got lucky and they where under a different pillar so I walled off and started looking for them. But absolutely nothing is down there. Part of the mod or did I just get lucky and an unlikely event wiped them all out?
The latter. I didn't remove any procedural demons. The only thing LFR adds down there doesn't affect the horde that spawns when you breach the adamantine tube.
Post by: thatkid on June 17, 2011, 10:15:21 pm
Post by: Pan on June 18, 2011, 07:54:37 pm
Also, is there any way I can place Mayday or Pheobus tileset over the mod and not get roughly hewn walls to turn into trees or oysters or something?
Post by: Merijeek on June 19, 2011, 03:28:54 pm
Post by: thatkid on June 19, 2011, 04:00:58 pm
Any guesses why I can't make precision tools? I've got orichilam. Isn't it done in either a forge or a crafts shop?It takes place at an alchemist's shop.
Post by: Pan on June 20, 2011, 07:45:21 am
Post by: SirAaronIII on June 20, 2011, 12:30:46 pm
Post by: narhiril on June 20, 2011, 12:53:18 pm
Hopefully, yes, it will be, but we can't be too sure. It'd be nice if narhiril shed some light on that.
There are a few things I've been working on for the current version of DF. It all depends on how soon the next version of DF comes out, really. I'm currently planning to go ahead with the next version expecting the new DF to be delayed. If it comes soon, wonderful, but if it takes a bit longer, I don't want to hold up the mod waiting for it.
I'm currently trying to decide if I want to go ahead and push out a 0.13b with fixes for the few bugs and anomalies I have encountered, or just save those fixes for 0.14. Nothing I have found requires a new world to fix, so I'll probably upload that later, even though most of what I've found has been rather insignificant. The biggest problem I've found is that the "cast bismuth hammerhead javelins" reaction is erroneously named "cast bismuth bronze hammerhead javelins" for the non-magma advanced caster.
Version 0.14 will include three new workshops, large amounts of hidden content, and several new creatures. I'm sure there will be more thrown into it as I get working, but that's what's currently in progress.
Post by: thatkid on June 20, 2011, 04:07:51 pm
I'm using a few others mods as well, and I didn't build the regular workshop till after getting orichalcum so it could be that you need to build the magma workshop after or there's some conflict with the stuff I'm using though (though the only other mods I'm using that effect reactions and entities are KC and Bonfire)
Post by: EvilWink on June 20, 2011, 05:00:27 pm
Post by: Alem on June 20, 2011, 05:15:07 pm
Post by: narhiril on June 20, 2011, 07:35:52 pm
It would appear that at the moment you can make precision orichalcum tools at a regular alchemist workshop, but not a magma one.
I'm using a few others mods as well, and I didn't build the regular workshop till after getting orichalcum so it could be that you need to build the magma workshop after or there's some conflict with the stuff I'm using though (though the only other mods I'm using that effect reactions and entities are KC and Bonfire)
bog trolls seem to die out in world gen pretty quickly
I am investigating both of these reports at the moment. I'll get back to you when I have news. Thanks for the feedback, it helps make the mod better :)
Post by: thatkid on June 20, 2011, 08:15:18 pm
Is there a use for it at the moment?
Edit: Also, you will get a notice when bog troll thieves become enraged or cease to be enraged, but the bogtroll might not be revealed. I guess we can rationalize this as the dwarves hear the bog trolls angry shouts, but don't realize there's a thief abouts.
Also, having Nephalim show up every season is a tad annoying. Is it possible to change their active seasons without regenning, does anyone know?
Post by: Pan on June 20, 2011, 08:29:07 pm
... several new creatures...
Looking forward to this.
bog trolls seem to die out in world gen pretty quickly
I can second this. My last world had no bog troll after 500 years of generation. I figured I was just unlucky at that time, but if it isn't just me, then bog trolls need some more world gen survival-ibility.
Post by: narhiril on June 20, 2011, 08:41:00 pm
How does one make use of a slab documenting an expanded theory on celestial mechanics?
Is there a use for it at the moment?
Edit: Also, you will get a notice when bog troll thieves become enraged or cease to be enraged, but the bogtroll might not be revealed. I guess we can rationalize this as the dwarves hear the bog trolls angry shouts, but don't realize there's a thief abouts.
Also, having Nephalim show up every season is a tad annoying. Is it possible to change their active seasons without regenning, does anyone know?
There is currently no use for those slabs, but one is planned for the near future.
Also, you can safely modify active seasons without a need for a new world. Go into entity_nephilim and add/remove [ACTIVE_SEASON:XXXX] tokens as you see fit. Just make sure you make the necessary changes in the region save file raws.
Post by: Pan on June 20, 2011, 08:51:46 pm
Also, having Nephalim show up every season is a tad annoying.I'm setting up a drowning Trade Depot as we speak, just for these bloody freeloading do gooders. I've never even done this to the elves, who at least got me a breeding pair of
Post by: thatkid on June 20, 2011, 08:57:21 pm
And I'm looking forward to seeing what that slab is used for. It sounds cool/ritual-tech-tree-related.
Speaking of, from a lore standpoint will the ritual tech-tree deal with the Nephilim, or at least their religion/background and the like?
I've tried starting a war with them, because at least then I can get some metal from the sieges but even after slaughtering their caravans and leaving some survivors for three years straight they keep coming to hang out in my trade depot. It wouldn't be so bad if they couldn't fly, but as it is I can't even lock them out. Drowning them is a good idea though.Also, having Nephalim show up every season is a tad annoying.I'm setting up a drowning Trade Depot as we speak, just for these bloody freeloading do gooders. I've never even done this to the elves, who at least got me a breeding pair ofgoblin executionersgiant lions.
Post by: Pan on June 20, 2011, 09:14:13 pm
Post by: thatkid on June 20, 2011, 09:35:31 pm
By the way, nightwing attacks on my (just embarked, sinister fortress) surface herd of goats are now repelled by the pastured nearby tortoises zerg rushing the nightwing and breaking every bone in their body, pinning it down for the dwarf with the axe to come along and finish it. I'm pretty sure tortoises don't have [LIKES_FIGHTING] or whatever.Clearly you brought along the teenage mutant ninja turtles.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: narhiril on June 21, 2011, 01:27:12 am
By the way, nightwing attacks on my (just embarked, sinister fortress) surface herd of goats are now repelled by the pastured nearby tortoises zerg rushing the nightwing and breaking every bone in their body, pinning it down for the dwarf with the axe to come along and finish it. I'm pretty sure tortoises don't have [LIKES_FIGHTING] or whatever.Clearly you brought along the teenage mutant ninja turtles.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
That. Is. Awesome.
Tortoises in LFR are quite large, about twice the size of a full-grown human once they reach maturity. They are also, however, docile and slow. If they land a lucky incapacitating early strike, they can defend themselves, but they won't get many attacks in on their own. But, as you have witnessed, numbers are a powerful thing in DF.
Spoiler: For thatkid... (click to show/hide)
An update on the reported issues. Bog trolls are being created in world gen, and are sometimes surviving. If you embark within the first 200 years or so, they're almost always there, but in longer histories without extremely abundant civilizations, they are dying out a little bit more often than other races. This is something I will look into a fix for.
Magma alchemy labs and casters are not showing anything in the errorlogs, but are not always recognizing the reagents for their reactions as present. Results have been mixed. While this is relatively meaningless for precision tools, which don't require fuel anyway, it is something that I need to take a deeper look at to determine what exactly is causing the problem and if the problem is on my end or a hangup with DF itself.
Post by: Pan on June 21, 2011, 05:44:39 am
And uh, you are going to be incorporating those tameable, explode on death cave creatures that was discussed last week, right?
Post by: narhiril on June 21, 2011, 11:07:57 am
Still, I find this quite unrealistic. What can I change in the raws to make them docile like the goats I have? Do I remove something like [LIKES_FIGHTING] or something?
And uh, you are going to be incorporating those tameable, explode on death cave creatures that was discussed last week, right?
Spoiler: Image (click to show/hide)
I didn't find the size that unrealistic, when you consider that the distinction between weight and size in DF is dubious, at best. They don't have [LIKES_FIGHTING] or [PRONE_TO_RAGE:X], but they don't have [BENIGN] either. [BENIGN] makes them flee from attackers when possible - which I thought was silly for something with an enormous shell on its back - but if they are savagely attacking in packs (lol), adding that would make them try to run away instead.
Also, that's a yes to walking bombs.
Post by: Pan on June 21, 2011, 11:11:19 am
And by unrealistic, I was talking about the turtles swarming like piranhas. Not the size.
Post by: thatkid on June 21, 2011, 11:16:03 am
The spoiler makes me unusually happy. :DBy the way, nightwing attacks on my (just embarked, sinister fortress) surface herd of goats are now repelled by the pastured nearby tortoises zerg rushing the nightwing and breaking every bone in their body, pinning it down for the dwarf with the axe to come along and finish it. I'm pretty sure tortoises don't have [LIKES_FIGHTING] or whatever.Clearly you brought along the teenage mutant ninja turtles.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
That. Is. Awesome.
Tortoises in LFR are quite large, about twice the size of a full-grown human once they reach maturity. They are also, however, docile and slow. If they land a lucky incapacitating early strike, they can defend themselves, but they won't get many attacks in on their own. But, as you have witnessed, numbers are a powerful thing in DF.Spoiler: For thatkid... (click to show/hide)
An update on the reported issues. Bog trolls are being created in world gen, and are sometimes surviving. If you embark within the first 200 years or so, they're almost always there, but in longer histories without extremely abundant civilizations, they are dying out a little bit more often than other races. This is something I will look into a fix for.
Magma alchemy labs and casters are not showing anything in the errorlogs, but are not always recognizing the reagents for their reactions as present. Results have been mixed. While this is relatively meaningless for precision tools, which don't require fuel anyway, it is something that I need to take a deeper look at to determine what exactly is causing the problem and if the problem is on my end or a hangup with DF itself.
Post by: narhiril on June 21, 2011, 11:52:40 am
By the way, just got a 'Master Armor prodigy'. I take it this is those savants that I keep hearing about?
And by unrealistic, I was talking about the turtles swarming like piranhas. Not the size.
Yes, and I'll toss [BENIGN] in there for the next release.
It reads funny on the skills screen, but it will show up on the announcements as "Urist McArmor has become an armor prodigy," and the job name will be "armor prodigy" if you don't override it with a custom job name.
I am quite busy this week, but I think I can get a streamlined version 0.13b up by Friday.
Post by: EvilWink on June 21, 2011, 03:42:57 pm
Post by: narhiril on June 21, 2011, 04:07:04 pm
One problem I have noticed is that the names of the options at the advanced mechanical lab are too long and go offscreen, is there a way to fix that?
This is a problem that is on hold until the TrueType crash bug is fixed. In the meantime, try adjusting the in-game screen proportions (tab key).
Spoiler: You should get something like this... (click to show/hide)
When you're done, cycle back to your default arrangement with the same key.
Post by: Seriyu on June 21, 2011, 07:40:44 pm
Post by: narhiril on June 21, 2011, 09:29:59 pm
Are there any plants to create "underground livestock" for dwarves? I always thought it was wierd that they had cows and yaks and sheep and such.
I've been getting a lot of creature requests lately, so I'll go ahead and bite on this one while I'm at it. The short answer is "yes," but I haven't quite decided which new creatures to implement yet. Carbuncles are the first creatures to fill this sort of role, but larger and more butcher-friendly creatures are something I can definitely include in the near future. Carbuncles multiply like rabbits, but they're not very big and don't eat much grass. Also, if you leave them near a nest box, you might get a surprise.
Post by: Pan on June 21, 2011, 09:36:34 pm
And do be a little creative with the underground livestock. ;)
Post by: Seriyu on June 21, 2011, 11:09:49 pm
Are there any plants to create "underground livestock" for dwarves? I always thought it was wierd that they had cows and yaks and sheep and such.
I've been getting a lot of creature requests lately, so I'll go ahead and bite on this one while I'm at it. The short answer is "yes," but I haven't quite decided which new creatures to implement yet. Carbuncles are the first creatures to fill this sort of role, but larger and more butcher-friendly creatures are something I can definitely include in the near future. Carbuncles multiply like rabbits, but they're not very big and don't eat much grass. Also, if you leave them near a nest box, you might get a surprise.
Funny you should bring it up, because I just caught and nest boxed one due to the suggestion by the manual. Neat. And okay, good to hear! Going with the creativeness suggestion by Pan too, it's something I haven't seen much of, and I feel like there's a lot of room for neat stuff.
Post by: EvilWink on June 21, 2011, 11:15:41 pm
Post by: Pan on June 21, 2011, 11:17:45 pm
It would be useful for there at be an alchemical reaction with flux stone as a product
Yes! This! Although don't make the reaction too easy. That would negate the need to look for embark sites with flux stone.
Post by: EvilWink on June 22, 2011, 12:15:34 am
It would be useful for there at be an alchemical reaction with flux stone as a product
Yes! This! Although don't make the reaction too easy. That would negate the need to look for embark sites with flux stone.
perhaps have flux stone as an outcome for the normal "conduct alchemical experiment," or you could make it like the plant transmutation, only with rock, where a random rock is genned each time, with the off chance of flux
Post by: narhiril on June 22, 2011, 01:24:27 am
Are there any plants to create "underground livestock" for dwarves? I always thought it was wierd that they had cows and yaks and sheep and such.
I've been getting a lot of creature requests lately, so I'll go ahead and bite on this one while I'm at it. The short answer is "yes," but I haven't quite decided which new creatures to implement yet. Carbuncles are the first creatures to fill this sort of role, but larger and more butcher-friendly creatures are something I can definitely include in the near future. Carbuncles multiply like rabbits, but they're not very big and don't eat much grass. Also, if you leave them near a nest box, you might get a surprise.
Funny you should bring it up, because I just caught and nest boxed one due to the suggestion by the manual. Neat. And okay, good to hear! Going with the creativeness suggestion by Pan too, it's something I haven't seen much of, and I feel like there's a lot of room for neat stuff.
The surprise is related to a rare caste, so you probably won't see anything happen if you simply put one in a room with a nest box. However, if you breed them in proximity to nest boxes, good things can happen.
Post by: Pan on June 22, 2011, 09:18:19 am
Easter Egg suggestion:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
(it's an internet meme) By the way, is damascus steel better than mithril?
Post by: Seriyu on June 22, 2011, 04:42:20 pm
The surprise is related to a rare caste, so you probably won't see anything happen if you simply put one in a room with a nest box. However, if you breed them in proximity to nest boxes, good things can happen.
Ohhh, I thought the surprise was
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
If it is, uhh, all 4 carbuncles I caught from the wild are doing it. If not, well, I look forward to it!
Post by: narhiril on June 22, 2011, 05:27:56 pm
The surprise is related to a rare caste, so you probably won't see anything happen if you simply put one in a room with a nest box. However, if you breed them in proximity to nest boxes, good things can happen.
Ohhh, I thought the surprise wasSpoiler (click to show/hide)
If it is, uhh, all 4 carbuncles I caught from the wild are doing it. If not, well, I look forward to it!
It is, but only certain castes do it.
When do you think you can release the next version? I, for one, simply cannot wait. :D
Easter Egg suggestion:Spoiler (click to show/hide)
By the way, is damascus steel better than mithril?
Damascus steel is slightly better than mithril (it's not much of a difference - maybe 5%) but also heavier.
I don't have an ETA on the next version yet, unfortunately. I try not to set them until I know I can meet them, which is usually about halfway through testing. Right now, I'm still writing raws.
Post by: narhiril on June 24, 2011, 09:57:29 pm
I will post more news about 0.14 once I have it. Like I said, I've been busy this week, but a good portion of the new raws are written for it already. Rest assured that progress is being made.
Post by: Pan on June 25, 2011, 06:25:50 am
Post by: thatkid on June 25, 2011, 12:18:12 pm
I then always have them decked out in as much steel as possible: Helm (Great Helm for the commander and captains), Breastplate, Mail Shirt, Greaves, Leggings, Gauntlets, High Boots.
All shields are copper.
I save half of any mithril I find for the creation of hadrine, because I figure someday I'll be able to do that. The rest of the pure mithril I get is made into great helms (for the commanders. Steel Great Helms are melted down or given to more skilled troops), or breastplates.
Any voidshard I get is made into axes or spears. Damascus steel is used for all weapons but war hammers and maces, if it's not a damascus steel edge weapon its a steel one. If its blunt, it's made of silver. If I get ether, I use that for long swords...but that's more of a flavor choice.
Once the majority of a squad is adequate or better in its weapon, they do frequent sweeps of the caverns, killing anything I can find down there. They're only ever off cavern duty when another squad is ready to take their place. Cavern duty is all done manually using the move or kill commands, I don't use patrol routes because when they're done with their sweep of the area I want them to go directly back to regular training.
I generally find that if I have a squad or three set up like this training year round, they can beat anything when it arrives. Up to and including voidwalker ambushes.
Of course, this actually all might be overkill. I'm a little insane, so even my fortress guard is armed with at least copper or better weaponry, but they spend a third of their time training, a third of their time stationed at the only entrance (to catch thieves and the like), and a third of their time off duty with the only jobs they're given being to work at the obstacle course or training dummy.
EDIT: Forgot to add, once I have around ten whips from goblinite invasions I'll set up an entire squad that trains solely with whips. This is because lightsabers are awesome.
Post by: Pan on June 26, 2011, 08:31:15 am
I save half of any mithril I find for the creation of hadrine
You... you use mithril for hadrine?? *facepalm*
Anyway, I found some things worth looking into. Firstly, the egg laying problem with turtles. Being grazers, they starve themselves when laying eggs. Secondly, you may want to change the amount of eggs other egg layers can lay. (this is a vanilla problem, but I'm wondering if you can change it with modding)
Post by: narhiril on June 26, 2011, 10:25:40 pm
I save half of any mithril I find for the creation of hadrine
You... you use mithril for hadrine?? *facepalm*
Anyway, I found some things worth looking into. Firstly, the egg laying problem with turtles. Being grazers, they starve themselves when laying eggs. Secondly, you may want to change the amount of eggs other egg layers can lay. (this is a vanilla problem, but I'm wondering if you can change it with modding)
And that bug rears its ugly head once again. I had seen...
Spoiler: spoiler-related creatures (click to show/hide)
...do that, but assumed it was because they were waiting for unusual eggs to hatch (which never happens, obviously), but I didn't know this was also affecting tortoises. The grazer tokens will be removed from both of these creatures until this is remedied.
And if you want to modify the number of eggs things lay at a time, this is the token you're looking for.
[CLUTCH_SIZE:4:15]
First number is minimum, second number is maximum. I do not plan to change these tokens for vanilla creatures with LFR, but you are free to do so as you like, and I am happy to assist in any way I can.
---
Now, regarding the next update. This version will contain the first "hybrid" building, which will tie into both the mechanical and upcoming ritual tech trees. I have designed a few ritual buildings as well, but most of the functions associated with these will likely not make it into the game until the next DF release. However, I'm so excited about how things are shaping up that I'm going to share a little about what I have in mind.
Ritual buildings are the other side of the coin when it comes to advances in dwarven technology and lifestyle (it's currently a two-sided coin, but it may get a bit more prismatic in the future). While the mechanical tech tree is based on step-by-step advances and research, the ritual tech tree is based almost entirely on fortune and sacrifices. It is theoretically possible to unlock the deepest secrets of the ritual tech tree in a single motion, should Armok or another extend you his favor, but it is both unlikely and highly dangerous.
The ritual tech tree will consist of NINE "tier one" buildings. All nine buildings will be able to perform a similar function - to appeal to a higher power for favor and gifts. The difference lies in how they go about it, and what "gifts" they are able to receive.
Three of the buildings are classified as "altars."
The dwarves will be able to perform sacrifices of varying scales upon these altars. A small sacrifice will only require one or two reagents, but will most likely go unnoticed by higher beings. If it does attract their attention, it is as likely to anger them as it is to appease them, resulting in a number of possible risks and rewards. Those of you who have been avidly performing alchemical experiments will see some similarities here, though most of the products will be entirely new in form and function. A large sacrifice can bring greater rewards, but also has a greater risk of angering rival powers.
The "Altar of Life" is a small building dedicated to the sacrifice of organic materials to appeal for divine favor. "Organic materials" will include plants, logs, and certain plant products (booze).
The "Altar of Death" is a similar altar that accepts skulls, bones, blood, and vermin remains for sacrifice.
The "Altar of Riches" will be yet another altar that accepts coins, gems, and large gems.
So what are the other six buildings, you ask? Well you're going to have to wait for those. That being said, the ritual tech tree does some things with buildings that are new and bold even by LFR's standards.
Post by: thatkid on June 27, 2011, 12:07:25 am
And that's saying something.
Is it even possible to use blood as a reagent at the moment though? I thought that was glitched along with a few other weird extracty things? Or maybe I'm just misinformed...
Post by: narhiril on June 27, 2011, 04:10:57 am
I am actually more eager to see the ritual tech-tree in all its glory than I am for the new Elder Scrolls Game.
And that's saying something.
Is it even possible to use blood as a reagent at the moment though? I thought that was glitched along with a few other weird extracty things? Or maybe I'm just misinformed...
I don't actually know the answer to that, it's something I'll need to examine (obviously) as things progress. Right now, aside from some building raws, the ritual tech tree is mostly still in the conceptual phase. The portion of the update I have been more actively working on is focused on creature requests and implementing new uses for unused products of documentation, since there are some things I want to do with the ritual tech tree that will require the new version of DF to work properly.
Post by: Trapezohedron on June 27, 2011, 04:58:10 am
I am actually more eager to see the ritual tech-tree in all its glory than I am for the new Elder Scrolls Game.
And that's saying something.
Is it even possible to use blood as a reagent at the moment though? I thought that was glitched along with a few other weird extracty things? Or maybe I'm just misinformed...
One way to use blood for reagents is to add a reaction class to the blood template and make reactions that use both blood and the container containing it.
As for blood making reactions, I'll see what I can cook up.
Post by: Teach on June 28, 2011, 06:01:52 pm
On the topic of ether, how many labs do you guys usually have running after you've set up your basic infrastructure? And how often do you guys get ether? For me usually by the end of year 2, I've had 1 reaction. I tend to only use 2 labs though. Also, how long does it usually take you to get the Experimental materials and the Weapons workshop? If I plunge into the tech tree I can get both as early as the end of the 2nd year but usually I spend more time on my military and so I end up with these workshops around year 4-5.
Post by: SalmonGod on June 28, 2011, 06:54:43 pm
Edit: Almost forgot... I've been meaning to ask if there's any likelihood of a Phoebus version at some point?
Post by: narhiril on June 28, 2011, 08:25:56 pm
Just want to say, I'm loving this mod. My first attempt at it is still very young, but just reading the features is exciting. So many creative gameplay ideas for making DF more varied, balanced, and unpredictable.
Edit: Almost forgot... I've been meaning to ask if there's any likelihood of a Phoebus version at some point?
This is something I need to devote a fair chunk of time to in order to make possible. The problem is that every graphics set has different tile numbers, so if I just import all of the raws into a Phoebus version, the mushrooms will look like swords and the swords will look like lobsters, and while everyone wants a lobster sword, this makes things very, very confusing. What I need to do is familiarize myself with the Phoebus pack and tiles and then manually comb through the raws and adjust the tile numbers.
The raw-only release has a Phoebus version that is a work in progress to this effect. If you really want to play the mod with the Phoebus set immediately, you can download that and copy+paste the raws in. They're fully functional, but bear in mind that some things (particularly the workshops) may look unusual. Most of the minerals and plants have had their tile numbers adjusted, though.
If you want a tl;dr version, it's planned, but I don't have a timetable for it right now. You're welcome to load up the early raws, though. It would actually help me immensely if I knew which things needed to be changed for the Phoebus version and which ones were alright.
Post by: SalmonGod on June 28, 2011, 08:42:28 pm
Post by: Pan on June 29, 2011, 08:32:07 am
The most important resource you have in the fight against voidwalkers are migrants. Against melee combatants you shouldn't have a problem provided your dwarves are trained properly. For the ranged squads however, you should send in 10-20 migrant shock troops decked out in full damascus steel (you'll be able to recover it soon enough). I really like the custom metals in this mod, most people just add a plethora of diverse races which are just fodder for trained dorfs. The deadly power of voidshard adds a nice element of danger to the game.
On the topic of ether, how many labs do you guys usually have running after you've set up your basic infrastructure? And how often do you guys get ether? For me usually by the end of year 2, I've had 1 reaction. I tend to only use 2 labs though. Also, how long does it usually take you to get the Experimental materials and the Weapons workshop? If I plunge into the tech tree I can get both as early as the end of the 2nd year but usually I spend more time on my military and so I end up with these workshops around year 4-5.
I agree on the marksdwarves. In my army, I find the biggest killers are the marksdwarves, who managed to cripple three out of four of the squads the bog trolls sent during the last siege, allowing my melee soldiers to sally out (I have never done this before. Usually I let the enemy run through the siege weapon array first) and perform coup de grace on the unconscious bog trolls lying around (including their warboss).
However, I'm a little worried that my copper and silver bolts are not going to be able to penetrate the voidwalker's voidshard armor. Will upgrading my marksdwarves to using javelin throwers give me more of a chance against them?
I have never gotten very far with the tech tree. I've actually been neglecting the alchemy experimenting parts of the tech tree in favor of getting the alchemists to turning stone to gold instead. (I like gold statues) Iwe've never gotten ether (is it better than adamantine?), experimental workshops, or weapons workshops (I find 'traditional' weapons quite enough at the moment.)
Post by: SirAaronIII on June 29, 2011, 12:32:38 pm
Post by: thatkid on June 29, 2011, 01:16:12 pm
I used to think that the regular weapons were good enough for my military, too. But then I played an adventurer who started with a pair of katara.I agree on the marksdwarves. In my army, I find the biggest killers are the marksdwarves, who managed to cripple three out of four of the squads the bog trolls sent during the last siege, allowing my melee soldiers to sally out (I have never done this before. Usually I let the enemy run through the siege weapon array first) and perform coup de grace on the unconscious bog trolls lying around (including their warboss).Spoiler (click to show/hide)
However, I'm a little worried that my copper and silver bolts are not going to be able to penetrate the voidwalker's voidshard armor. Will upgrading my marksdwarves to using javelin throwers give me more of a chance against them?
I have never gotten very far with the tech tree. I've actually been neglecting the alchemy experimenting parts of the tech tree in favor of getting the alchemists to turning stone to gold instead. (I like gold statues) Iwe've never gotten ether (is it better than adamantine?), experimental workshops, or weapons workshops (I find 'traditional' weapons quite enough at the moment.)
After realizing how completely badass some of the exotic weapons are, I always try to set up an experimental weapons workshop just so I can have a squad or two composed of ninjas or whatever.
Post by: sigefread on June 29, 2011, 08:57:38 pm
I agree on the marksdwarves. In my army, I find the biggest killers are the marksdwarves, who managed to cripple three out of four of the squads the bog trolls sent during the last siege, allowing my melee soldiers to sally out (I have never done this before. Usually I let the enemy run through the siege weapon array first) and perform coup de grace on the unconscious bog trolls lying around (including their warboss).
However, I'm a little worried that my copper and silver bolts are not going to be able to penetrate the voidwalker's voidshard armor. Will upgrading my marksdwarves to using javelin throwers give me more of a chance against them?
Javelin throwers are good to have but not in large numbers.
Javelins take A LOT of metal to maintain a good stock of them but they do larger damage and do pierce better than bolts.
Bolts are cheap to make the can pierce Cotton candy armor in the hands of a good marksman/dwarf/etc but they have more of a chance at being deflected by shields.
This is all anecdotal though and you may have different circumstances than me so the best thing you can do is experiment with your squad layouts a little.
On the note of marksmen I made crossbows out of silver and when enemies came close enough that I had to order a retreat deeper into the fortress one of the marksdwarves that got surrounded during the retread managed to kill a couple of bog trolls and then escape. I know that one is very unlikely even with the power of numbers but two?
EDIT: Found out why, He had legendary striking due to an artifact haha, I smell a new commander
Post by: thatkid on June 29, 2011, 11:02:03 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I gave it to my Master Alchemist, who is actually a savant and also the captain of the guard and the head doctor. She now runs around in a leather coat, a silk tunic, leather trousers, silk socks, leather boots, leather gloves, and this tophat. It's pretty awesome, in my mind's eye.
I'm thinking of making her not-the-military-commander and having all my alchemists in a similar get-up, now I that I think about it...
EDIT: Also, out of curiosity...can you loot the display cases in adventure mode? I doubt it, but I figure it's worth asking.
Post by: Pan on June 30, 2011, 01:45:34 pm
Post by: narhiril on June 30, 2011, 02:30:14 pm
Look what I got~Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I gave it to my Master Alchemist, who is actually a savant and also the captain of the guard and the head doctor. She now runs around in a leather coat, a silk tunic, leather trousers, silk socks, leather boots, leather gloves, and this tophat. It's pretty awesome, in my mind's eye.
I'm thinking of making her not-the-military-commander and having all my alchemists in a similar get-up, now I that I think about it...
EDIT: Also, out of curiosity...can you loot the display cases in adventure mode? I doubt it, but I figure it's worth asking.
Unsure on that, as I've never played much adventure mode, but I know you can take the upright weapons from a certain underground place, so maybe? Any adventurers out there to give me a hand with this one?
Also, congratulations on that little hidden surprise. There are quite a few others, by the way ;)
These javelin throwers are really something. I'm seeing an improvement in one shot kills when the javelin throwing marksdwarves are stationed behind the walls.
Yeah, they're fun and hilariously powerful, but that's why they're so expensive :)
They're part of the reason I designed the champion mini-squad, because I found that mixing them in with crossbow squads results in everyone picking up the wrong ammunition.
Post by: Pan on July 01, 2011, 08:33:22 am
Post by: Hitty40 on July 01, 2011, 11:29:45 am
Post by: thatkid on July 01, 2011, 11:59:43 am
What do you mean by a 'tech tree'?There are several new buildings added in this mod. Along with these buildings, there are also several new items and metals and the like. Varying buildings allow you to do varying things of increasing coolness, but in order to do those things one needs to find certain metals, acquire certain items, or otherwise unlock the next tier by random chance. It's not incredibly difficult to progress along the tech-tree, nor is it necessary, but it does take time.
I don't want to spoil anything, and narhiril can probably give a much much better explanation than I ever could, but here's an example: The dwarves of defensepicks have a robust alchemy program, it hasn't really provided them much of use until now. While mining out the hauler's quarters, they came across a vein of a strange ore which they were quick to dub "Orichalcum". After smelting this ore into bars, the metal was tossed off into a backroom stockpile for a number of years until one day a curious alchemist took one bar to his workshop in order to test its properties. While working, he discovered that the metal had a strange shape-memory property, and he was soon able to create a set of tools out of them.
A passing mechanic saw this set of tools, recognized them for what they were, and dashed off to build an Advanced Mechanics Shop. Here, he was able to create more of those tools with the right metals, as well as advanced mechanisms which were put to use in creating obstacle courses, mechanical training dummies, and various training courses for the fort's medics.
As these dwarves trained, they documented their progress in a variety of ways. Alchemists took these documents and studied them, eventually coming up with a variety of scientific advances, one of which allowed the fortress to harness the raw energy found in a stone called Lustrum, essentially removing their reliance on wood for fuel.
Post by: Hitty40 on July 01, 2011, 01:04:11 pm
What do you mean by a 'tech tree'?There are several new buildings added in this mod. Along with these buildings, there are also several new items and metals and the like. Varying buildings allow you to do varying things of increasing coolness, but in order to do those things one needs to find certain metals, acquire certain items, or otherwise unlock the next tier by random chance. It's not incredibly difficult to progress along the tech-tree, nor is it necessary, but it does take time.
I don't want to spoil anything, and narhiril can probably give a much much better explanation than I ever could, but here's an example: The dwarves of defensepicks have a robust alchemy program, it hasn't really provided them much of use until now. While mining out the hauler's quarters, they came across a vein of a strange ore which they were quick to dub "Orichalcum". After smelting this ore into bars, the metal was tossed off into a backroom stockpile for a number of years until one day a curious alchemist took one bar to his workshop in order to test its properties. While working, he discovered that the metal had a strange shape-memory property, and he was soon able to create a set of tools out of them.
A passing mechanic saw this set of tools, recognized them for what they were, and dashed off to build an Advanced Mechanics Shop. Here, he was able to create more of those tools with the right metals, as well as advanced mechanisms which were put to use in creating obstacle courses, mechanical training dummies, and various training courses for the fort's medics.
As these dwarves trained, they documented their progress in a variety of ways. Alchemists took these documents and studied them, eventually coming up with a variety of scientific advances, one of which allowed the fortress to harness the raw energy found in a stone called Lustrum, essentially removing their reliance on wood for fuel.
Wow. Just wow.
Post by: narhiril on July 01, 2011, 05:36:14 pm
What do you mean by a 'tech tree'?There are several new buildings added in this mod. Along with these buildings, there are also several new items and metals and the like. Varying buildings allow you to do varying things of increasing coolness, but in order to do those things one needs to find certain metals, acquire certain items, or otherwise unlock the next tier by random chance. It's not incredibly difficult to progress along the tech-tree, nor is it necessary, but it does take time.
I don't want to spoil anything, and narhiril can probably give a much much better explanation than I ever could, but here's an example: The dwarves of defensepicks have a robust alchemy program, it hasn't really provided them much of use until now. While mining out the hauler's quarters, they came across a vein of a strange ore which they were quick to dub "Orichalcum". After smelting this ore into bars, the metal was tossed off into a backroom stockpile for a number of years until one day a curious alchemist took one bar to his workshop in order to test its properties. While working, he discovered that the metal had a strange shape-memory property, and he was soon able to create a set of tools out of them.
A passing mechanic saw this set of tools, recognized them for what they were, and dashed off to build an Advanced Mechanics Shop. Here, he was able to create more of those tools with the right metals, as well as advanced mechanisms which were put to use in creating obstacle courses, mechanical training dummies, and various training courses for the fort's medics.
As these dwarves trained, they documented their progress in a variety of ways. Alchemists took these documents and studied them, eventually coming up with a variety of scientific advances, one of which allowed the fortress to harness the raw energy found in a stone called Lustrum, essentially removing their reliance on wood for fuel.
Wow. Just wow.
That's pretty much exactly how I envisioned and implemented it. Well done, thatkid.
The "tech tree" currently consists of a variety of mechanical and technological advances. None of these are essential to gameplay in any way, but they can open up new opportunities for your dwarves if you choose to pursue them. The tech tree branches off into a variety of possibilities, including training workshops, new fuel sources (as mentioned above), new materials, and other surprises. For example, while dissecting a rat corpse to train diagnosis, a doctor notes that a fork was an effective tool for perforating the muscle layers (for SCIENCE, of course). While filing the research notes, a clerk notices this note and visualizes a giant fork-wielding company of dwarves slaughtering the goblin siege outside. Scribbling some notes on a blank slab, he runs off to create a workshop for testing this weapon concept and, with the help of a weaponsmith and a mechanic and a number of wasted bars of metal, they create a prototype *giant steel fork* which the fortress champion claims, slays a giant poison-spitting fox with, and names "Prongheart."
Obviously, for logistical reasons, I cannot get the slabs themselves to show these scribblings. The advances themselves simulate these situations using a combination of prerequisite items and randomized products. However, this situation described pertains to a very real part of the mod, which is not restricted to giant forks (there are dozens of possible weapons concepts, some bad, some good, some heinously powerful). This story is only a slightly embellished version of a thoroughly tested feature of the mod.
Post by: SirAaronIII on July 01, 2011, 06:31:45 pm
Post by: thatkid on July 01, 2011, 08:07:04 pm
Your mod is probably one of the better documented mods out there.
Either way you're going to be in the credits section because Forlorn Realms is what inspired me to really start modding (where before I just sort of dicked around to see what I could break)
Post by: piecewise on July 01, 2011, 09:29:11 pm
Post by: thatkid on July 01, 2011, 09:31:01 pm
Hey narhiril, have you ever thought about releasing a version of this aimed at adventure mode? One where all those diverse weapons are actually used by in game civs? I'm probably just going to edit your raws to let humans use them all for now, but it would be nice to see the weapons and other neat aspects of the game arranged into something more adventure focused, if only as a side release or something.Adventurers will actually spawn with the exotic weapons sometimes, if that's what you mean. I've had kobolds using kataras and rakes.
Post by: narhiril on July 01, 2011, 09:43:57 pm
narhiril, I'm going to be releasing a mod of my own soon. Would it be alright if I used the LFR manual and lore files as a basis for my own readme (and maybe lore)?
Your mod is probably one of the better documented mods out there.
Either way you're going to be in the credits section because Forlorn Realms is what inspired me to really start modding (where before I just sort of dicked around to see what I could break)
If you're just using the format (section headers, table of contents, subsections, directory numbers, etc), I don't even require credit for that. If you, for instance, want to rebuild alchemy in your own way from scratch, I by no means own any patents or intellectual claims to that. I am not the first person to utilize the alchemy skill in a mod, and I know I won't be the last. If, however, you want to expand, copy, or use my raws or lore compositions as a template for your own modifications, I would like credit for that.
In a nutshell, go for it, just make sure anything you take directly from LFR has credit associated with it, and make sure that anything you take is not already credited in the LFR manual to someone else. If you wanted to use the foundry, for instance, you'd see in the manual that I got those raws with permissions from Kipi, so you'd want to talk to the original author in those few cases.
Generally, ideas and mods on these forums are shared in good faith. As long as you're not claiming someone else's work as your own, most of the community is fine with sharing things as long as they are asked for permission and due credit is given.
Post by: thatkid on July 01, 2011, 09:51:16 pm
narhiril, I'm going to be releasing a mod of my own soon. Would it be alright if I used the LFR manual and lore files as a basis for my own readme (and maybe lore)?
Your mod is probably one of the better documented mods out there.
Either way you're going to be in the credits section because Forlorn Realms is what inspired me to really start modding (where before I just sort of dicked around to see what I could break)
If you're just using the format (section headers, table of contents, subsections, directory numbers, etc), I don't even require credit for that. If you, for instance, want to rebuild alchemy in your own way from scratch, I by no means own any patents or intellectual claims to that. I am not the first person to utilize the alchemy skill in a mod, and I know I won't be the last. If, however, you want to expand, copy, or use my raws or lore compositions as a template for your own modifications, I would like credit for that.
In a nutshell, go for it, just make sure anything you take directly from LFR has credit associated with it, and make sure that anything you take is not already credited in the LFR manual to someone else. If you wanted to use the foundry, for instance, you'd see in the manual that I got those raws with permissions from Kipi, so you'd want to talk to the original author in those few cases.
Generally, ideas and mods on these forums are shared in good faith. As long as you're not claiming someone else's work as your own, most of the community is fine with sharing things as long as they are asked for permission and due credit is given.
I saw that section. It was actually one of the big reasons why I asked, as I've never had to write a legal mumbo-jumbo/credits thing before, since generally when I make something and release it to the public I don't care what happens to it (but this time I actually intend to continue working on it), and I figured I could just paraphrase what you wrote in regards to all that. xD
That, and the lay-out was nice.
Since a lot of my testing it getting done alongside Forlorn Realms, I'm not taking anything from it. But I am making sure my mod is compatible.
Post by: Pan on July 01, 2011, 10:15:49 pm
I had the good fortune to embark with a Bowyer Prodigy who is also a weaponsmith. :D
Sadly, bowyers are bowyers and weaponsmiths are weaponsmiths. Actually, savants are not hard to get. I have no less than three armor prodigies arrive in my 150 dwarf fortress, two of which are actually hauling stuff and waiting for the one working as an armorer to die.
I'm finally getting voidwalkers to attack me. After all the preparations and fortifications, it turns out my two man squad of swordmasters (in masterwork adamantine) manhandled the squad of voidwalker lashers that ambushed them at the main gate. Their stones of banishment goes straight to lining the sides of the memorial hall. (13 blocks of it and counting)
What's your mod going to be about, thatkid?
Post by: thatkid on July 01, 2011, 10:25:46 pm
I've been really inspired by celtic mythology lately though, and I've been playing a lot of adventure mode as well, so the past few days I've been making a Tuatha De Dannan race, some seelie and unseelie fae, and magical instruments that can only be made and played (using rare ingredients) as an adventurer (right now you can only use a flute). The instruments I likely won't do much with till the next DF version because there are only so many syndromes. I think that I'm probably going to follow that path for a while though, so for at least the first few complete releases it's basically going to be a mod that's heavily influenced by ancient pagan/celtic myths. Once I'm satisfied with that, I'll likely move on to other mythologies or something.
And I've noticed that savants are fairly frequent as well. In one of my current forts I have around 4 weapon savants. Sadly, the only armor savant died in a cave-in while I was digging out the dining-hall basilica-thing.
Post by: Pan on July 02, 2011, 12:50:47 am
Post by: piecewise on July 02, 2011, 03:18:23 am
Post by: Pan on July 02, 2011, 08:44:01 am
Are the nephlim supposed to have weapons in adventure mode? Because all I can find are wrestlers and they really are no match for my rapier.
I think narhiril probably followed the example of the vanilla raws to make his civs, so I personally find it unlikely it's the mod's fault. In fortress mode, they show up with their weapons just fine. Maybe your just unlucky? I'll go and gen a world and test this out. Although... how do you get into a nephilim settlement as fast as you can? Not very experienced with adventurer mode.
I gotta say how much I love stones of banishment. Firstly, it adds some colour to my all white (and gray) fortress. Secondly, lining the big memorial hall with pillars literally made with the remains of your enemy really gives me a smile.
Today while fighting the voidwalkers (first siege! But all they did was retire my now single armed axedwarf recruit), I noticed that they no longer emit a wail on death. I remember how I had turned off the temperature to save FPS. Could this be the problem?
Post by: narhiril on July 02, 2011, 12:25:26 pm
Are the nephlim supposed to have weapons in adventure mode? Because all I can find are wrestlers and they really are no match for my rapier.
I think narhiril probably followed the example of the vanilla raws to make his civs, so I personally find it unlikely it's the mod's fault. In fortress mode, they show up with their weapons just fine. Maybe your just unlucky? I'll go and gen a world and test this out. Although... how do you get into a nephilim settlement as fast as you can? Not very experienced with adventurer mode.
I gotta say how much I love stones of banishment. Firstly, it adds some colour to my all white (and gray) fortress. Secondly, lining the big memorial hall with pillars literally made with the remains of your enemy really gives me a smile.
Today while fighting the voidwalkers (first siege! But all they did was retire my now single armed axedwarf recruit), I noticed that they no longer emit a wail on death. I remember how I had turned off the temperature to save FPS. Could this be the problem?
Masterwork adamantine will cut through just about anything without trouble, voidshard included.
You'll likely be disappointed by the answer to your question. Temperature needs to be on for a fair number of the mod's features to work. Without temperature, voidwalkers won't do death cries, alchemy reactions will produce weird (and by "weird" I mean unintentional and non-functional) byproducts, and a fair number of creatures will be rendered nearly harmless. The fact that you're seeing stones of banishment at all told me that something was wrong - they're an internal name for voidwalker death wails. I couldn't even tell you what color they are off the top of my head because I never intended them to be used for anything other than instantly vaporizing upon being called into existence (this is how death wails work). If you want a colorful stone, however, I can try to arrange something to that effect.
Turning temperature off can help FPS, but I find that it wrecks most of the game's best features. Even in vanilla, you can't cause magma or fire-themed death traps, and dragons will breathe clouds of Febreeze at you.
Post by: darkflagrance on July 02, 2011, 04:00:04 pm
Post by: narhiril on July 02, 2011, 05:03:34 pm
So in other words, Pan's dining hall is lined with the unearthly dying curses of a planeswalking race. Only in Dwarf Fortress...
That pretty much sums it up. Not an intended feature in this case, but that's not to say that similar themes and elements aren't coming down the road.
I am a grappling with how far I want the ritual tech tree to go before the next version. I would rather not have to later back-adjust existing reactions to add in new consequences, so I've drawn up a rough schematic of what I want to do for tier one and part of tier two. What I am debating right now is whether or not to make separate altars for different spheres, or merge them all into one generic "altar" and let the reactions govern which sphere is being tampered with. The former opens up some opportunity for future additions to the first tier, but the second significantly cuts down on the number of buildings. Seeing as DF does not support subcategories for the workshop menu, I'm concerned that adding a bunch of altars will result in a lengthy workshop selection, especially as more workshops work their way into things. Thoughts and suggestions regarding this are welcome, as always.
The previously unused products of documentation are going to have uses introduced. The "expanded theory on celestial mechanics" will be used in the construction of the orrery, which is a bulky workshop that will train the teacher and observer skills. The "carved treatise on the effects of gasoline on fire," originally intended to be little more than a Homestarrunner joke, will be used for a tie-in to the second tier of the ritual tech tree.
The first tier of the ritual tree will be entirely functional in this version. The second tier will have a number of buildings available for construction, but these buildings will only be partially functional. Right now, they only contain reactions to get rid of excess building materials for some modest rewards (there is one exception, but I am not finished with it yet). These buildings will have more interesting functions introduced with the next release of DF in the form of numerous new reactions.
It's been a productive day, methinks.
Post by: Putnam on July 02, 2011, 06:20:36 pm
Are the nephlim supposed to have weapons in adventure mode? Because all I can find are wrestlers and they really are no match for my rapier.
It's because Nephilim infighting is best handled by wrestling. Fly up, wait for enemy nephal, throw, they slam into an obstacle, give in to pain, bite throat, shake, repeat.
Post by: Pan on July 02, 2011, 07:18:26 pm
If you want a colorful stone, however, I can try to arrange something to that effect.
I really only put pillars of that stone for the whole 'I killed you, muthafucka, and your remains are now a trophy I show off to friends' thing. I never really cared about the colors of stones. Except microcline. It's annoying when my dining rooms are half blue, half gray. Very un-uniform.
Still, I'll be turning to temperature on again. Will the pillars immediately (and the stones on the battlefield from the last siege) turn into a cloud of death wails?
Post by: thatkid on July 02, 2011, 07:56:16 pm
I'm pretty sure they will.If you want a colorful stone, however, I can try to arrange something to that effect.
I really only put pillars of that stone for the whole 'I killed you, muthafucka, and your remains are now a trophy I show off to friends' thing. I never really cared about the colors of stones. Except microcline. It's annoying when my dining rooms are half blue, half gray. Very un-uniform.
Still, I'll be turning to temperature on again. Will the pillars immediately (and the stones on the battlefield from the last siege) turn into a cloud of death wails?
That should be a fun little dinner for your dwarves.
Post by: Pan on July 03, 2011, 12:12:15 am
Pro tip, kids. Hamerhead javelins are crap (made of silver, supposedly one of the few good materials for blunts. Use broadheads. They severe limbs and actually kill things.
Post by: Icee77 on July 03, 2011, 02:48:50 pm
Post by: darkflagrance on July 03, 2011, 04:51:26 pm
Post by: narhiril on July 03, 2011, 05:07:08 pm
Um...I think a found something you may want to fix. When A Nephilim Caravan comes, and an animal gets too near, all of the Nephals fly up into the sky and attack, leaving their animals to wander around. I may have killed those animals to get the goods.....and maybe gave a few of the Nephal's goods back to them to get on their good side....
This is a known problem with flying civilizations that has come up in a number of mods. Short of a radical overhaul of vanilla pack animals (and even this is untested), there's nothing that can be done about it at the moment. This is a problem that I am hoping Toady will address later in the caravan arc.
Post by: SirAaronIII on July 03, 2011, 06:51:49 pm
(http://img.ie/18820.png)
Post by: narhiril on July 03, 2011, 07:41:46 pm
In case you still need pictures of mood weapons being created, here's one I just got. Too bad my computer spontaneously restarted soon after. :'(
(http://img.ie/18820.png)
AWESOME, thank you!
Post by: goukaryuujin on July 03, 2011, 11:31:28 pm
So in other words, Pan's dining hall is lined with the unearthly dying curses of a planeswalking race. Only in Dwarf Fortress...
Mind if I sig this? :P
Post by: Pan on July 04, 2011, 07:22:21 am
Post by: Icee77 on July 04, 2011, 03:17:19 pm
Post by: thatkid on July 04, 2011, 03:21:37 pm
Post by: Pan on July 05, 2011, 06:23:44 am
Post by: narhiril on July 05, 2011, 04:34:05 pm
Say, narhiril, I remembered suggesting some living grenades that can be tamed from the caverns. Gotten around to that yet? (as in, will it be out in the next version?)
Yes, but I'm still playing with them. I accidentally lit the cavern on fire with one the other night, which was both cool and an FPS nightmare. I'm trying to decide the best approach to this. If they drop an item on death, they'll spread fire, frostbite, or poison. I wish I could get them to drop an item which explodes and causes cave-in knockback, but this is currently impossible. Right now, I'm testing a version that causes extreme bleeding to simulate shrapnel. If this works properly, I'll probably make different castes with different effects - fire, ice, bleeding, and possibly something a bit more amusing.
Post by: Pan on July 05, 2011, 09:41:38 pm
syndromes. Your obviously more creative with the whole 'killing people horribly' thing. :P
Also, what exactly are they? Like, the creature.
Post by: narhiril on July 06, 2011, 05:27:51 am
I was really only thinking something that emits something like a voidwalker death wail, except having some more poisonous
syndromes. Your obviously more creative with the whole 'killing people horribly' thing. :P
Also, what exactly are they? Like, the creature.
Think of a koosh ball with legs. I haven't quite decided what to call them yet, though.
Post by: SalmonGod on July 06, 2011, 03:10:52 pm
Post by: narhiril on July 06, 2011, 05:08:56 pm
Right now there's a flashbang zinger (blind, dizziness, and brief stun), a pyrophoric zinger (lights things on fire), a frigid zinger (extreme cold), and a fragmented zinger (heavy bleeding). The creature uses castes to differentiate between them.
I'm finalizing a "putrid zinger," which will throw out severe nausea and possibly some oozing. Zingers are immune to their own syndrome effects, but may take damage from nearby fire or ice blasts.
I am toying with some other variations, but don't have names or effects pinned down yet. There may be more when syndromes get expanded.
Post by: thatkid on July 06, 2011, 05:12:33 pm
Urist likes pyrophoric war zingers for their spots.
Post by: narhiril on July 06, 2011, 05:14:09 pm
I like the name "Zinger"
Urist likes pyrophoric war zingers for their spots.
Adding that as a prefstring.
Post by: Pan on July 06, 2011, 08:42:58 pm
Post by: narhiril on July 06, 2011, 10:44:00 pm
May I have the raws? I can't really wait for the next version :P
DFFD Download (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=4637)
Will not work without material_template_narhiril.txt (part of LFR v0.13a-b). Drag them into your raws and fire up the arena or a new world. Note that these are an alpha version of a feature for v0.14a. They do not yet include a graphic and have not been thoroughly tested. That being said, they should at least return a clean errorlog.
Post by: Pan on July 06, 2011, 11:14:33 pm
Aahh, excellent.
EDIT: I've been testing them out, and other than the putrid zingers (who make the enemies nauseous and unconscious, then fly kicks them in the head till death), the others do very little damage. Also, their actually pretty OK in a fight against, say, an alligator, and two of them are locked in a tussle with one. Might wanna reduce their melee prowess a little, and they really can kick...
Post by: Carn on July 07, 2011, 05:19:59 am
Think of a koosh ball with legs. I haven't quite decided what to call them yet, though.
I am so very excited about unleashing koosh ball death upon the bloodthirsty hordes.
Post by: Pan on July 07, 2011, 05:38:42 am
Test subject 2 aatxes was presented with a flashbang zinger. He figured it out and hurled the bomb against a far away wall, where it detonated harmlessly. I encased him in obsidian for being a smartass.
Test subject 3 aatxes was presented with a flashbang zinger. He attacked it, and the white light paralyzed him, and he suffocated shortly afterwards.
The other tests are mostly the zingers detonating and the subject being unharmed. Looks like flashbangs and putrids are the only ones that work.
Post by: thatkid on July 07, 2011, 02:20:26 pm
I get the feeling that most zingers are meant to disable or hinder enemies without killing them outright, including the flashbang zinger...
Post by: narhiril on July 07, 2011, 08:08:59 pm
The paralysis associated with flashbangs is only supposed to last a few ticks (in real time, less than a second). If this is causing death by suffocation, something is wrong with it and I'll need to find some alternatives.
I will remove the drowsiness effect (comas) from putrids.
The problem with frigid and pyrophorics seems to be related to exposure time, which is very short. The only way I can think to counter this is by removing their own heatdam and colddam points and giving them superheated or supercooled liquids as blood. Note that this will likely make these two castes very, very, very dangerous.
I do not know why the fragmented ones aren't working, but this may be related to some problems I've had with inhaled syndromes. For some reason, being caught in a cloud of a gas with an inhaled syndrome is not always enough to transfer the syndrome, and I'm not entirely sure why (again, likely a problem with exposure time). I'll comb through the raws later and see what I can do for the three non-temperature related effects. The ice and fire might need a bit more creativity.
UPDATE: fragemented ones are working (causing a huge mess), but lack the significant punch intended. These will be revised to have a more pronounced effect.
Post by: Pan on July 07, 2011, 10:19:42 pm
By the way, request to add the mod in the Community Mods and utilities list.
Post by: narhiril on July 08, 2011, 07:03:08 am
Well, either way, I found the ice and fire guys a little less realistic than the others. I mean, fragmentation and putrids are possible in insects in real life, such as how some ants can literally explode to defend their nest, and lots of animals give very putrid smells. Even flashbangs can more or less be explained by how they have some sort of chemical reaction in them that activates on death. But a creature that freezes enemies or burns enemies on death is a little less explainable. And from what your planning, you might really just be overpowering them with the whole dangerous blood thing. In any case, I'll be removing the ice and fire zingers from any of my future downloads, no offense intended or meant.
I know bombardier beetles (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombardier_beetle) can burn their enemies, but freezing is a bit harder to explain. Even an endothermic chemical reaction would be difficult to justify. More importantly than justification, however, are technical aspects. I can't seem to get frigid ones to ever do damage, no matter how cold I make them. Even with temperatures below absolute zero (which shouldn't even be possible), they aren't damaging anything other than items. I have concluded that this is probably due to insulating tissue layers and extremely brief exposure time. Results have been a little better with pyrophorics when I dialed the temperature up, but burns are inconsistent and tend to be on the extremeties.
The results suggest that giving them the axe might be the better solution, at least for now. I'd rather not introduce another technical headache if I can avoid it. Putrids and flashbangs are working properly now. Fragmenteds are a little on the weak side, but they are at least causing some pretty heavy bleeding, and I can revisit these if need be. I'll post up a revised alpha version later today.
By the way, request to add the mod in the Community Mods and utilities list.
This would be most welcome. :)
Post by: thatkid on July 08, 2011, 07:06:53 am
Should you ever decide to give frigid zingers another try, maybe have them bleed a gas with a fixed temp =<5000, but not be immune to its effects?
Post by: Teach on July 08, 2011, 03:05:10 pm
Well, either way, I found the ice and fire guys a little less realistic than the others. I mean, fragmentation and putrids are possible in insects in real life, such as how some ants can literally explode to defend their nest, and lots of animals give very putrid smells. Even flashbangs can more or less be explained by how they have some sort of chemical reaction in them that activates on death. But a creature that freezes enemies or burns enemies on death is a little less explainable. And from what your planning, you might really just be overpowering them with the whole dangerous blood thing. In any case, I'll be removing the ice and fire zingers from any of my future downloads, no offense intended or meant.But dragons, immortals, and eldritch abominations crawling from the dredges of the earth are realistic? ;) What about the alchemy labs and their functions, or giant animated statues of bronze? You'd have to remove a fair bit of content from the raws to make this game realistic. I'm just teasin though, I'm sure you've thought of this before (or heard of it) since it's a very common refutation that you often see used in arguments pertaining to realism in literature, movies, and games.
By the way, request to add the mod in the Community Mods and utilities list.
Post by: Teach on July 08, 2011, 06:36:12 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Pan on July 09, 2011, 12:57:25 am
Well, either way, I found the ice and fire guys a little less realistic than the others. I mean, fragmentation and putrids are possible in insects in real life, such as how some ants can literally explode to defend their nest, and lots of animals give very putrid smells. Even flashbangs can more or less be explained by how they have some sort of chemical reaction in them that activates on death. But a creature that freezes enemies or burns enemies on death is a little less explainable. And from what your planning, you might really just be overpowering them with the whole dangerous blood thing. In any case, I'll be removing the ice and fire zingers from any of my future downloads, no offense intended or meant.But dragons, immortals, and eldritch abominations crawling from the dredges of the earth are realistic? ;) What about the alchemy labs and their functions, or giant animated statues of bronze? You'd have to remove a fair bit of content from the raws to make this game realistic. I'm just teasin though, I'm sure you've thought of this before (or heard of it) since it's a very common refutation that you often see used in arguments pertaining to realism in literature, movies, and games.
By the way, request to add the mod in the Community Mods and utilities list.
Yeah, I know :D But since this is wildlife, not magically animated objects... But anyway, yeah, magic is a very convenient thing to have to explain lots of things that seem impossible.
Post by: NobodyPro on July 09, 2011, 09:32:10 am
Post by: Pan on July 09, 2011, 12:10:08 pm
Wow, Dorf ingenuity at its finest.What should I do with this? Wait for Voidwalkers to bring me ammo?Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Won't be easy. Good luck.
And yeah, that's an awesome artifact.
Post by: Merijeek on July 09, 2011, 12:39:03 pm
Also, I'm noticing my badly-equipped soldiery is throwing people around a lot. Is it because they're wrestlers, which I never use? Or is something special going on?
Post by: Pan on July 09, 2011, 12:56:24 pm
Post by: thatkid on July 09, 2011, 02:08:34 pm
But yeah, those pigeons get annoying. Either kill them, or just way for them to bugger off.
Or capture them. I think they might be war trainable, but I don't remember.
Post by: Seriyu on July 09, 2011, 02:45:04 pm
Post by: thatkid on July 09, 2011, 02:54:49 pm
Aren't they naturally legendary fighters or something?
Post by: thatkid on July 09, 2011, 03:40:35 pm
Post by: narhiril on July 09, 2011, 07:15:32 pm
Might be a good idea to make them a little bit rarer, then.
Aren't they naturally legendary fighters or something?
Yes, but they're also about the size of your hand. If they manage to actually hurt anything that severely, I'd be surprised. During testing, even in large numbers, they couldn't inflict much more than surface wounds.
Post by: thatkid on July 09, 2011, 07:21:12 pm
Ah, yeah. I didn't really take that into consideration.Might be a good idea to make them a little bit rarer, then.
Aren't they naturally legendary fighters or something?
Yes, but they're also about the size of your hand. If they manage to actually hurt anything that severely, I'd be surprised. During testing, even in large numbers, they couldn't inflict much more than surface wounds.
Post by: Pan on July 10, 2011, 09:04:46 am
Also, I sort of miss the early bog troll sieges from 0.12 something, where they come at year 2. It adds more challenge to the game. How can I tweak them to attack earlier?
Post by: narhiril on July 10, 2011, 02:30:16 pm
Hey, Narhiril, perhaps you could make alchemical researches give a slab of accredition? So it can also contribute to the tech tree advancement?
I have not done this because it would effectively allow you to skip the first tier of the tech tree without unlocking advanced mechanisms and precision tools. From a lore standpoint, it doesn't make sense for the dwarves to be able to create things like the experimental materials workshop without first developing the technologies that it uses, even though these technologies are, for simplicity's sake, not always individually required for each workshop's construction.
You are free to make this modification on your own by tacking the product lines from training workshops onto the alchemical reactions. This should not require a new world to take effect. However, after giving it much thought, I have no plans to officially include this as a feature of the mod - though I appreciate any and all suggestions.
Also, I sort of miss the early bog troll sieges from 0.12 something, where they come at year 2. It adds more challenge to the game. How can I tweak them to attack earlier?
Within the entity_bog.txt file, locate the lines...
[PROGRESS_TRIGGER_POPULATION:3]
[PROGRESS_TRIGGER_PRODUCTION:4]
[PROGRESS_TRIGGER_TRADE:4]
[PROGRESS_TRIGGER_POP_SIEGE:3]
[PROGRESS_TRIGGER_PROD_SIEGE:4]
[PROGRESS_TRIGGER_TRADE_SIEGE:4]
These numbers correspond to in-game values, which you can look up on the wiki under "entity tokens." Lowering the numbers (particularly population) will make them appear earlier. You do not need to gen a new world for these changes to take effect, provided you remember to also modify the save raws.
Post by: Pan on July 10, 2011, 07:16:00 pm
I have not done this because it would effectively allow you to skip the first tier of the tech tree without unlocking advanced mechanisms and precision tools. From a lore standpoint, it doesn't make sense for the dwarves to be able to create things like the experimental materials workshop without first developing the technologies that it uses, even though these technologies are, for simplicity's sake, not always individually required for each workshop's construction.
Ah, good point. Good point. Agreed.
Post by: Mandango on July 10, 2011, 07:17:22 pm
Post by: Pan on July 10, 2011, 07:33:38 pm
Drop the roof on the meowkin and her kids if they are an eye sore, or install upright spikes around the area to stab her and her kids to death.
Post by: thatkid on July 10, 2011, 07:34:54 pm
Maybe your baron is busy? Conduct Meeting is not a high priority job. If they can path to your baron, and he is not doing anything, then it may be a bug, although probably not from the mod. I don't have this problem.Or rather than risk dwarf lives, just order your military to kill 'em
Drop the roof on the meowkin and her kids if they are an eye sore, or install upright spikes around the area to stab her and her kids to death.
Post by: Mandango on July 10, 2011, 07:44:57 pm
Maybe your baron is busy? Conduct Meeting is not a high priority job. If they can path to your baron, and he is not doing anything, then it may be a bug, although probably not from the mod. I don't have this problem.Or rather than risk dwarf lives, just order your military to kill 'em
Drop the roof on the meowkin and her kids if they are an eye sore, or install upright spikes around the area to stab her and her kids to death.
Haha, both of you immediately think of killing them, such a dwarf response. I was more hoping that the children would become citizens of my fortress. Plus they're not eating my food so it's all good. And yes, I've got my mayor doing absolutely nothing and still no luck. I have considered whether making the meeting hall in the mayor office to see if that works.
Post by: narhiril on July 11, 2011, 12:40:27 am
Maybe your baron is busy? Conduct Meeting is not a high priority job. If they can path to your baron, and he is not doing anything, then it may be a bug, although probably not from the mod. I don't have this problem.Or rather than risk dwarf lives, just order your military to kill 'em
Drop the roof on the meowkin and her kids if they are an eye sore, or install upright spikes around the area to stab her and her kids to death.
Haha, both of you immediately think of killing them, such a dwarf response. I was more hoping that the children would become citizens of my fortress. Plus they're not eating my food so it's all good. And yes, I've got my mayor doing absolutely nothing and still no luck. I have considered whether making the meeting hall in the mayor office to see if that works.
Diplomats won't meet with a mayor once you have a baron, and will meet with the baron one at a time. If there are multiple diplomats around, one will chase the baron while the others stand around aimlessly. If your baron is busy, this can persist for a very long time.
Post by: Lovechild on July 11, 2011, 04:06:47 am
Anyway, very nice mod.
Post by: Lexx on July 11, 2011, 08:31:39 am
Post by: Pan on July 11, 2011, 10:59:37 am
Just wanted to say what your doing is great. I was starting my own mod but this mod has most of what i want in a mod. As a suggestion would you add in orcs? I can send the basic orc creature and civ I have made if you want to add them to your mod.
It's always nice to have another different race to throw into the arena. Although, thinking on that, orcs are already in a ton of other mods... maybe you could change their race and appearances, but keep the raws for the whole 'proud warrior race' theme?
Post by: Lovechild on July 11, 2011, 02:01:47 pm
It was just another day at Cruxboulder. Dwarves were running to and fro, working on the fortress' mighty battlements. Suddenly one of the masons shouted, "Angels!"
The dwarves dropped their work and looked to the skies. Two winged beings, tall yet beautiful, soared effortlessly high above the ground. Between themselves they were carrying a water buffalo, heavily laden with packs and bags. They nodded approvingly at the dwarves, then dropped the water buffalo.
The animal fell screaming and hit the ground, blowing apart in an explosion of blood and limbs. The wares it was carrying scattered everywhere. Above, the angels flew away. The dwarves gazed at them in wonder, until they disappeared in the clouds.
Then, the dwarves ran out of the fortress to gather the goods strewn about the buffalo's remains. "The gods have blessed us!" they cried. "Praise to the angels!"
Post by: narhiril on July 11, 2011, 05:35:20 pm
Just wanted to say what your doing is great. I was starting my own mod but this mod has most of what i want in a mod. As a suggestion would you add in orcs? I can send the basic orc creature and civ I have made if you want to add them to your mod.
Bog trolls are basically my version of Orcs, but much larger. They draw pretty heavily from the Warhammer universe, but use more traditionally orcish graphics (jet black skin and horns). That being said, I have set up LFR so that it does not conflict with other civilization mods, so you're free to put Fortress Defense or your own civilization in on top of it without causing any technical problems.
I am a bit fed up with civilizations at the moment, to be completely honest. They're very fun to make, but a nightmare to try to balance, especially when you start getting more than 5 or 6 of them. My current stand on civilizations is best summed up as follows.
-LFR has all of the civilizations it needs to utilize its current features. As new features become possible, new civilizations will be looked into as an option for exploring them.
-LFR's current number of (mostly) balanced civilizations is restricted by hard limits on inter-civilization relations and my desire to make LFR challenging, but not as overwhelming as the constant attacking armies of Fortress Defense. If these limits are expanded, civilization development will also follow. The "military arc" that Toady has planned will likely factor into this, but it is too early to make any serious speculation. A token to force hostilities between specific entities would allow some relief from the pressure of constant siege by forcing armies to fight each other when both arrive on your doorstep, but this is currently impossible to do.
-The (currently theoretical) diplomatic tokens would allow some previously impossible or horribly unbalanced features, such as a civilization of extreme power that is hostile to everyone (the "common enemy" or "greater evil"), or a civilization of "peacekeepers."
If, however, you sent me your Orc creature raws, I would be more than happy to include the creature and create graphics for it. It would not be a full civilization as of yet, but it would be complete and usable in the arena. Credit, of course, will be given.
---
Trivia: There is actually a language file for the originally planned "extreme power" civilization included as part of LFR, but it is not used by any current civilizations. This civilization was meant to be based in the deserts/savannahs and attacked in vast numbers. Though the original idea was shelved pending further developments, occassionally a world may generate with a name taken from this language file. If the tokens necessary for it are developed, I will revisit this concept and consider others.
Post by: thatkid on July 11, 2011, 05:41:02 pm
Voidwalkers weren't meant to be a supreme evil "here to destroy the world but taking their time about it" race?
Post by: narhiril on July 11, 2011, 05:59:43 pm
Wait, wait, wait
Voidwalkers weren't meant to be a supreme evil "here to destroy the world but taking their time about it" race?
They're a technologically superior race who looks down on everyone else, but they are only aggressive when threatened or when a civilization starts to accumulate too much technology and power. They are not evil for evil's sake, though they certainly aren't the most friendly bunch. The voidwalkers have a secret motive for their unusual pattern of actions, but this has not yet been explored in the mod and is strictly lore-based at the moment.
The unreleased civilization was more like the Tyranids from Warhammer 40k in terms of behavior. They are more of a virus-like civilization, which exists only to consume the resources and lives of other civilizations for the sake of creating more of themselves. Unlike the voidwalkers, this civilization would attack indiscriminately with no regards for complex strategy or even weapon technology. Their strength would come from overwhelming numbers, anchored by a few "champion" units of extreme size. When an army or "swarm" of these showed up at your door, they were meant to viciously attack anything they saw, including animals, merchants, and other armies. Unfortunately, due to the somewhat bizarre way DF currently handles interspecies relations, forcing them to be hostile to everyone proved impossible, and they were far too powerful to be allied with any other civilizations. In the end, I had to axe them, and I put the unfinished raws and graphics aside until I, hopefully, get some new tokens to make them work propoerly.
It's a pity, really. They would have been pretty awesome. But maybe they'll make a comeback as DF grows some more.
---
Voidwalkers = small number of extremely powerful units, motivations unclear (rational, but based on facts and concepts that have not yet been released in LFR), extremely advanced civilization and heirarchy.
Unused Civ = extremely large number of weak units, no motivation other than to expand and consume, no societal structure whatsoever.
Post by: narhiril on July 11, 2011, 06:08:52 pm
Frigid and pyrophoric zingers have been axed due to technical problems. Flashbang zingers will no longer cause death by suffocation. Fragmented zingers now actually do something (lol).
Post by: Pan on July 11, 2011, 09:09:48 pm
Wait, wait, wait
Voidwalkers weren't meant to be a supreme evil "here to destroy the world but taking their time about it" race?
They're a technologically superior race who looks down on everyone else, but they are only aggressive when threatened or when a civilization starts to accumulate too much technology and power. They are not evil for evil's sake, though they certainly aren't the most friendly bunch. The voidwalkers have a secret motive for their unusual pattern of actions, but this has not yet been explored in the mod and is strictly lore-based at the moment.
The unreleased civilization was more like the Tyranids from Warhammer 40k in terms of behavior. They are more of a virus-like civilization, which exists only to consume the resources and lives of other civilizations for the sake of creating more of themselves. Unlike the voidwalkers, this civilization would attack indiscriminately with no regards for complex strategy or even weapon technology. Their strength would come from overwhelming numbers, anchored by a few "champion" units of extreme size. When an army or "swarm" of these showed up at your door, they were meant to viciously attack anything they saw, including animals, merchants, and other armies. Unfortunately, due to the somewhat bizarre way DF currently handles interspecies relations, forcing them to be hostile to everyone proved impossible, and they were far too powerful to be allied with any other civilizations. In the end, I had to axe them, and I put the unfinished raws and graphics aside until I, hopefully, get some new tokens to make them work propoerly.
It's a pity, really. They would have been pretty awesome. But maybe they'll make a comeback as DF grows some more.
---
Voidwalkers = small number of extremely powerful units, motivations unclear (rational, but based on facts and concepts that have not yet been released in LFR), extremely advanced civilization and heirarchy.
Unused Civ = extremely large number of weak units, no motivation other than to expand and consume, no societal structure whatsoever.
About those unused civs, when you do use them, perhaps they could be related to those
Halo references aside, it would actually be pretty cool, if unoriginal, to fight them.
One complaint I have with huge numbers of enemies- no clothes please. Just armor, or if you want to be mean and don't give us armor to melt, skin with metal properties. Clothes are a bitch to clean up.
Post by: narhiril on July 11, 2011, 10:15:35 pm
Though they behave as one force, they were not "hive minded." They have no concept of a greater cause or purpose. They exist only to consume, and they seem to band together only because they do not find each other fit for consumption.
They were called the "Shedim" in early testing, though this name is not set in stone. They even have a partial lore file (not included with LFR- yet, at least). Early concepts for their appearance and physical properties were recycled and modified to create the Incubi, which are in game, but very rare due to exclusively appearing in an extremely uncommon biome. Pray that you never embark on top of them, because they'll tear you apart.
Lore for the Shedim places them as a very young race with minimal societal structure. Their existence in the world of LFR has been brief, but they have proven to be resilient due to their numbers. Almost impossible to wipe out entirely, their threat can be managed by thinning their ranks and forcing them to rebuild their population. Deprived of new resources, their growth and territory can be managed by a well-trained and well-equipped army, but unchecked, they will spread like a plague to devour everything they touch. All other races attack them on sight, even the Voidwalkers, who know that their technical prowess and objectives in the world of LFR can only prevail as long as the numbers are kept in check.
That being said, the Voidwalkers do not fear them. In fact, during tests, they were hilariously efficient at killing them as long as the numbers stayed within reasonable limits. They started to lose momentum at about the 5:1 population mark. Against an average Voidwalker siege, both sides would sustain pretty heavy losses - at least, in theory. I never got an opportunity to really test this because I couldn't make them fight everyone else, and I anticipate that population tweaks would be needed to get it finely balanced. It is my hope that the military arc will flush out some of these setbacks and make the original concepts possible.
Post by: thatkid on July 12, 2011, 12:28:30 am
On the note of Voidwalkers attacking only when you grow too powerful: I've been seeing voidwalker thieves and ambushes right alongside bog trolls and goblins. So either they're showing up too early, or I'm just getting very lucky in that the other dudes are showing up too late. I'm going to be starting a new fort soon, maybe, and I'll try to get hard numbers on pop, wealth and year the next time they show up.
Also, a question about the megabeasts added by this mod: Do they have unique hides/bones/teeth/etc? I've found that this is a pretty good way to keep stuff alive in world gen, maintain a sense of danger when fighting them in adventure mode, and also provide a reward in the form of unique leather armor and bone weaponry and the like.
Post by: Carn on July 12, 2011, 12:50:57 pm
Post by: thatkid on July 12, 2011, 05:32:53 pm
Even more awesome: Nephilim arrived mid-fight, cut a path to the trade depot, and are now just sitting there while a battle rages just around the corner.
Post by: Pan on July 12, 2011, 05:49:05 pm
Post by: thatkid on July 12, 2011, 06:53:26 pm
It was hilarious though. The voidwalkers killed a few cats, and started to make their way towards the entrance when a flood of smiley faces surged forward. A burst of yellow gas appeared as an annihilator became a living (and then dead) pin cushion, but it barely slowed the smiling typhoon. Soon the voidwalkers were running.
And then the Nephalim showed up, and then several thieves were revealed and the ambushers were like "Oh. Wait." and started killing my dwarves again.
Post by: narhiril on July 13, 2011, 12:14:16 am
Also, a question about the megabeasts added by this mod: Do they have unique hides/bones/teeth/etc? I've found that this is a pretty good way to keep stuff alive in world gen, maintain a sense of danger when fighting them in adventure mode, and also provide a reward in the form of unique leather armor and bone weaponry and the like.
They don't at the moment. Being one of the first additions to the mod, I was only just getting familiar with creature tokens. This is something I plan to possibly revisit in the near future, particularly the idea of powerful bone weaponry.
The exception right now is the land mover, which uses a modified material for its shell.
Post by: Seriyu on July 13, 2011, 02:10:09 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
which appear to have died on embark despite me not doing anything to them.
EDIT: Make that three, this one died after embark, so it's not some wierd cave in incident or something.
Post by: narhiril on July 13, 2011, 03:12:14 am
So far I've spotted twoSpoiler (click to show/hide)
which appear to have died on embark despite me not doing anything to them.
EDIT: Make that three, this one died after embark, so it's not some wierd cave in incident or something.
They're not friends with other things lurking down there, and while they are very tough, they don't hold out forever. I don't currently have a way to stop them from fighting each other, unfortunately. You'll know when you find them, though.
Post by: Merijeek on July 13, 2011, 10:50:22 am
I've got brand new fort started up. It's going relatively well. Problem is, I'm stuck at the very bottom of the tech tree because I haven't found any orichalum yet. Is there any other way to get on the tech tree? Every other LFR fort I've tried has had the stuff in the first fifteen minutes or so...
-Joe
Post by: Stuebi on July 13, 2011, 11:38:16 am
To share some of the awesomeness: (keep in mind im a df noob tough, so this might be uninteresting for most of you)
My first Fort in this mod held out for about 3 Years, a Bog Troll attack tore me apart. I Had set up my Military a year earlier, with an almost full Mithril Set for every Soldier (Some had a bit of Steel here and there, whcih i traded off a Caravan, i hillariously overdid it in Terms of Wealth). Half a Year after the funding i finally found some Orichalcum and made use of the Training Buildings, i was pretty confident my 10 Guys would be able to deal with most Threats that could come from outside. I was wrong, very wrong. When the Bog Trolls came i lured them into my Entrance Hallway, so my Dorfs could deal with one or two at a time, and not the entire Hoard. Still those Guys killed one Soldier after another, i dont know if i can be proud about this, but atleast i killed 3 before my Military fell. Afterwards i pulled all other Civilians into the Military and tried a Suicide attack. Funny enough, The Dwarf that survived the longest was the Legendary Cheesemaker that migrated into my Fort and was compeltely useless til the attack.
That stuff happened about an hour or two ago, and i have to say it was the most epic DF Fort i ever played. But i will probably have to change my habits and Buildorders for this mod if i want to survive other Onslaughts like that^^
Anyway, really great Mod and a big Thank you from Switzerland for making it!
PS. Just a quick Question, are Deep Wolves Trap and Tameable?
Post by: thatkid on July 13, 2011, 02:57:15 pm
Question...Order some raw orichalcum, or some orichalcum bars, from your trade liaison.
I've got brand new fort started up. It's going relatively well. Problem is, I'm stuck at the very bottom of the tech tree because I haven't found any orichalum yet. Is there any other way to get on the tech tree? Every other LFR fort I've tried has had the stuff in the first fifteen minutes or so...
-Joe
You can also dig down to the caverns and hope some of the rare drop creatures pop up.
Post by: narhiril on July 13, 2011, 09:22:08 pm
Question...Order some raw orichalcum, or some orichalcum bars, from your trade liaison.
I've got brand new fort started up. It's going relatively well. Problem is, I'm stuck at the very bottom of the tech tree because I haven't found any orichalum yet. Is there any other way to get on the tech tree? Every other LFR fort I've tried has had the stuff in the first fifteen minutes or so...
-Joe
You can also dig down to the caverns and hope some of the rare drop creatures pop up.
Also, dig around if you find microcline, since that's where it's usually hiding.
Post by: Pan on July 13, 2011, 09:51:39 pm
First of all, freaking Great Mod! I almost cant stop playing df since i use it^^
To share some of the awesomeness: (keep in mind im a df noob tough, so this might be uninteresting for most of you)
My first Fort in this mod held out for about 3 Years, a Bog Troll attack tore me apart. I Had set up my Military a year earlier, with an almost full Mithril Set for every Soldier (Some had a bit of Steel here and there, whcih i traded off a Caravan, i hillariously overdid it in Terms of Wealth). Half a Year after the funding i finally found some Orichalcum and made use of the Training Buildings, i was pretty confident my 10 Guys would be able to deal with most Threats that could come from outside. I was wrong, very wrong. When the Bog Trolls came i lured them into my Entrance Hallway, so my Dorfs could deal with one or two at a time, and not the entire Hoard. Still those Guys killed one Soldier after another, i dont know if i can be proud about this, but atleast i killed 3 before my Military fell. Afterwards i pulled all other Civilians into the Military and tried a Suicide attack. Funny enough, The Dwarf that survived the longest was the Legendary Cheesemaker that migrated into my Fort and was compeltely useless til the attack.
That stuff happened about an hour or two ago, and i have to say it was the most epic DF Fort i ever played. But i will probably have to change my habits and Buildorders for this mod if i want to survive other Onslaughts like that^^
Anyway, really great Mod and a big Thank you from Switzerland for making it!
PS. Just a quick Question, are Deep Wolves Trap and Tameable?
Deep wolves are not trainable, although I did see a [PET] tag.
And yea, those bog trolls... I changed my tactics from the usual, vanilla '10 or 12 guys of various weaponry decked out in iron/steel/adamantine' to 'around 15 melee guys or so decked out steel/adamantine plus around another 15 marksdwarves'. The first tactic rewarded me with pretty much the same thing as you. Then I relied more heavily on marksdwarves, and the casualties stopped piling up so high. Bog trolls feel pain, so a wooden bolt to the spleen will very likely render them unconscious.
The last fort that died of FPS issues had a bog troll siege (4 squads) where my 15 marksdwarves killed around 3 bog trolls, but rendered almost 2 and a half squads unconscious on the causeway to my entrance! The melee soldiers, most of them just out of boot camp (there isn't one) sallied out, swarmed the ragtag squad that made it to the gates, and delivered coup de grace to the three squads of unconscious bog trolls, their civ leader included. I later added javelin throwers to the mix, and saw a lot more kills to the marksdwarves credit. And a lot more clean up from all the limbs.
Post by: Putnam on July 13, 2011, 10:54:56 pm
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/13790475/Second%20age%20of%20Myth.png
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/13790475/Second%20age%20of%20Myth%202.png
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/13790475/Age%20of%20Legends.png
Post by: Stuebi on July 14, 2011, 04:57:37 am
First of all, freaking Great Mod! I almost cant stop playing df since i use it^^
To share some of the awesomeness: (keep in mind im a df noob tough, so this might be uninteresting for most of you)
My first Fort in this mod held out for about 3 Years, a Bog Troll attack tore me apart. I Had set up my Military a year earlier, with an almost full Mithril Set for every Soldier (Some had a bit of Steel here and there, whcih i traded off a Caravan, i hillariously overdid it in Terms of Wealth). Half a Year after the funding i finally found some Orichalcum and made use of the Training Buildings, i was pretty confident my 10 Guys would be able to deal with most Threats that could come from outside. I was wrong, very wrong. When the Bog Trolls came i lured them into my Entrance Hallway, so my Dorfs could deal with one or two at a time, and not the entire Hoard. Still those Guys killed one Soldier after another, i dont know if i can be proud about this, but atleast i killed 3 before my Military fell. Afterwards i pulled all other Civilians into the Military and tried a Suicide attack. Funny enough, The Dwarf that survived the longest was the Legendary Cheesemaker that migrated into my Fort and was compeltely useless til the attack.
That stuff happened about an hour or two ago, and i have to say it was the most epic DF Fort i ever played. But i will probably have to change my habits and Buildorders for this mod if i want to survive other Onslaughts like that^^
Anyway, really great Mod and a big Thank you from Switzerland for making it!
PS. Just a quick Question, are Deep Wolves Trap and Tameable?
Deep wolves are not trainable, although I did see a [PET] tag.
And yea, those bog trolls... I changed my tactics from the usual, vanilla '10 or 12 guys of various weaponry decked out in iron/steel/adamantine' to 'around 15 melee guys or so decked out steel/adamantine plus around another 15 marksdwarves'. The first tactic rewarded me with pretty much the same thing as you. Then I relied more heavily on marksdwarves, and the casualties stopped piling up so high. Bog trolls feel pain, so a wooden bolt to the spleen will very likely render them unconscious.
The last fort that died of FPS issues had a bog troll siege (4 squads) where my 15 marksdwarves killed around 3 bog trolls, but rendered almost 2 and a half squads unconscious on the causeway to my entrance! The melee soldiers, most of them just out of boot camp (there isn't one) sallied out, swarmed the ragtag squad that made it to the gates, and delivered coup de grace to the three squads of unconscious bog trolls, their civ leader included. I later added javelin throwers to the mix, and saw a lot more kills to the marksdwarves credit. And a lot more clean up from all the limbs.
Thanks for the hint! But personally im not really confident if i could train marksdwarves myself. I Heard they tend to have horrible aim, and also like other Military skills, it takes ages to train it^^
But im probably gonna try out Javelin Throwers, considering all the Splatter you mentioned :P
Post by: Pan on July 14, 2011, 11:28:01 am
Give you marksdwarves javelin throwers only when their higher leveled. The ammo is expensive like hell. Also, use broadheads. Hammerheads are absolutely useless. Not too sure on piercing, but limb severing is more reliable.
Post by: thatkid on July 14, 2011, 01:15:46 pm
Post by: The Master on July 14, 2011, 11:04:09 pm
Post by: Pan on July 15, 2011, 05:36:59 am
Post by: thatkid on July 15, 2011, 12:48:36 pm
I'd say give it to the most experienced crossbowman who isn't using a jav thrower.
Post by: narhiril on July 15, 2011, 07:08:09 pm
I just got another milestone in my DF histoy - the first useful artifact for the military. A fey bowyer made a wooden repeating crossbow. Is it actually better than an actual crossbow? Cuz I know how rate of fire cannot be changed, so how much better is it than the vanilla one?
It's probably worth noting that the repeating crossbow uses blowdarts instead of bolts (though it still uses the crossbow skill). You'll likely want to put whoever's wielding it in a separate squad, both to make them easier to control and to make sure other squad members don't decide to march up to the ramparts with the wrong ammunition.
But since it's an artifact, it's going to be very accurate. It's not the best possible ranged weapon, but it's a very nice find for an expert or master marksdwarf. Expect that guy to rack up some kills as long as you remember to make some ammo for him (dwarves CAN make blowdarts and arrows in LFR from metal, wood, or bone).
--
I'm working on the raws for another new building tonight, the crystal growth tank. This building will allow a sufficiently advanced dwarven civilization to produce "crystalline blocks" of any color on demand using only mundane stone, intended to help with megaprojects and large works of art and engineering. For those of you who aren't already motivated to use this technology for decor, these blocks will also be slightly more valuable than mundane stone blocks.
Post by: thatkid on July 15, 2011, 07:10:44 pm
Post by: narhiril on July 15, 2011, 07:22:43 pm
Can we get some crystalline windows as well, maybe?
That can be arranged.
Post by: thatkid on July 15, 2011, 07:29:18 pm
Post by: Putnam on July 15, 2011, 10:31:19 pm
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/13790475/Brouillard.png
This is the meowkin that took the world out of the age of land mover and mountain titan and into the age of Doigt.
Note that Brouillard's daughter, Nageoire Whirldrank, killed the giant that killed Brouillard in 46 at the age of 14.
Also, Brouillard's father was the first princess (father was a princess? How elven!) of the Adoration of Autumn. Damn, this guy's interesting!
Genning the world again, and the world, after going about 100 years in the age of the mountain titan, switched to age of the meowkin. I imagine the entire world is populated by Brouillard's father's descendants at this point :P
Post by: narhiril on July 15, 2011, 10:44:54 pm
Why are meowkin and nephilim apparently so much more powerful than the default intelligent creatures?
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/13790475/Brouillard.png
This is the meowkin that took the world out of the age of land mover and mountain titan and into the age of Doigt.
Note that Brouillard's daughter, Nageoire Whirldrank, killed the giant that killed Brouillard in 46 at the age of 14.
Also, Brouillard's father was the first princess (father was a princess? How elven!) of the Adoration of Autumn. Damn, this guy's interesting!
I honestly don't know the answer to that question. Nephilim have access to steel and build numerous fortifications, but I haven't been able to figure out exactly what is causing the Meowkin to beat the ever-living crap out of megabeasts at such an alarming rate when their best equipment is made of bronze and they're smaller than every other intellegent race in the mod.
I need to generate a sample batch of worlds and look over population and biomes pretty closely to get to the bottom of this one.
Post by: thatkid on July 15, 2011, 11:10:17 pm
Post by: trees on July 16, 2011, 01:41:12 am
Post by: Putnam on July 16, 2011, 03:56:45 am
Oh man, I haven't had a chance to play this yet, but your description already has me hooked. I can't wait to give this a try.
This mod is interesting; it doesn't change the feel of the game at all, rather, adding something that feels like a natural progression. You see, this game adds a few more RTS elements to the game, which, considering the fact that the game is a real time strategy, makes nearly everything this mod adds feel completely natural. It makes the game harder, in the siege sense, because, let's be honest, who actually LOSES to sieges when you've got traps set up in the vanilla game? A bridge and a long series of weapon traps makes the only thing that can beat you at all titans, and even those are pretty easily resolved by military dwarves. This mod has ways of beating you without making it feel unfair; Hide behind forbidden doors, hoping to make siegers run into your trap corridor? Say hi to bog trolls. Hiding behind traps? Say hi to voidwalkers. This mod is unusually balanced; everything that may be overpowered is quickly balanced by something else out to get you, in quite an amazing way. It's undoubtedly one of the best mods I've ever used; both my "vanilla" copy (I can't keep it vanilla, because I have to have LFR!) and my mod !!experiment!! copy have LFR installed, and a third copy of mine happens to be LFR merged with Genesis (I kind of gave up on that when I realized that I would have to rewrite a bunch of creatures to support all of Genesis's features in LFR). Don't you love the way I ramble when I go on about things I like? This is somehow considered good writing in a school environment (99%! Great writing, but it didn't have an ending!)
Post by: Pan on July 16, 2011, 05:03:12 am
(made sabre tooths and zingers embarkable but expensive pets since I couldn't find a trace of them down in the caves)
I'm also looking forward to those crystal windows. But make them a little hard to get, else there really is no need at all to look for sand on embark.
Just had one pretty cool goblin siege. Cool cuz I was able to inflict heavy casualties with some different tactic than 'CHAAARGE THOSE ENEMIES WHO GETS PAST THE TWO LINES OF WEAPON AND CAGE TRAPS!'.
The 5 squads or so of goblins and their ogre and troll buddies milled around my raised drawbridge gate, their unarmed general in the middle of the hoard. Then the bridge opened. Instead of armored, dwarven soldiers screaming bloody murder pouring out, there was... an empty corridor with a tall ceiling. The ogres and trolls roared in triumph, their simple brains sensing no trap but slaughter and destruction awaiting them, led the assault, charging in, three getting snagged by a cage trap. The goblins advanced warily behind them.
However, just as they began to reach the doors at the end of the corridor, the sounds of grinding mechanisms reached their ears. Out of the ceiling, hatches opened, and zingers fell into the horde. The height of the fall instantly killed and detonated the creatures. Almost an entire three squads of the goblins, and almost all of the ogres and trolls were paralyzed by the blinding light or poisoned and unconscious from the noxious gas. The doors then, unsurprisingly, swung open to reveal a small army of taunting and screaming dwarven soldiers, who charged the broken goblin horde. The crossbow goblin squad and their spearmaster leader, who had been coincidentally at the back, immediately broke for the way out, only to watch, horrified, as a raised drawbridge part of the wall behind them lowered, releasing a large pack of lean, sabre tooth tigers, who descended upon them in a maddened fury.
It took me an entire season to clean up all the dead goblins and their severed lower bodies.
Anyway, now that my attempt at storytelling is (thankfully) over, I can say that all of the above were true. The goblins and their -10 star general came into the main corridor, I pulled the lever which opens the hatches above, dropping the zingers a couple of z levels onto the goblins. Two of the zingers I dropped died instantly like I said, but the one zinger who broke everything on its body and survived was killed by an axe goblin, dooming the gobs next to him (hehe). Since I was using the first raws for the zingers the flash and putrids were quite overpowered (I had manually removed the frag, pyro and ice). Then I ordered my 15 melee dwarves clad in iron with assorted mithril, damascus and vanilla steel weapons and shields to attack.
I had thought the crossbow gobs were a concern, but I laughed when they just fired a few (missed or blocked)shots and tried to run. Then I pulled the lever which releases the caged tigers that was in a room (sealed by a raised drawbridge)right at the side of the entrance, surrounding the goblins and effectively massacred them. The goblin general was, sadly, not caught in a trap for my amusement, but at least I had the satisfaction of reading the report of a sabre tooth tiger gnawing at him here and there, then getting his head smashed in with an =iovium war hammer=. I lost 4 sabre tooth tigers, 3 zingers and no dwarves to this siege.
Best siege ever.
Post by: narhiril on July 16, 2011, 06:35:31 pm
Things will settle down for me in about a week and a half, and then I can really start cranking it out. I just felt that since this update is taking significantly longer than previous (and planned future) updates, I owed some of you more of an explanation than "I'm working on it."
That being said, I'm working on it.
Post by: thatkid on July 16, 2011, 06:36:36 pm
Post by: Pan on July 17, 2011, 08:12:13 am
Although a full list on what to expect next version would be nice. Something to look forward to.
And what's up with the moroii? I mean, are they just there, or serve some sort of purpose?
Post by: narhiril on July 17, 2011, 10:54:20 pm
Eh, most of us here are pretty OK with the current version. Take your time ;D
Although a full list on what to expect next version would be nice. Something to look forward to.
And what's up with the moroii? I mean, are they just there, or serve some sort of purpose?
The moroii serve as yet another method for technical advances. They are disorganized and unfriendly to outsiders, but they look for and treasure relics of the civilization that built the Damascus Sentinels. Killing them will sometimes yield one of these relics, which can be used for some tier 2 tech advances in lieu of unlocking them by documentation. Aside from that, they're just there to add one more bit of variety to the underground.
As for a (planned) list of features, it's looking something like this.
LFR v0.14a
-Addition of the Orrery as a tier two training workshop (uses an already present but unused product of documentation). The orrery can train teaching, student, and observer skills, which can be useful for making squad training sessions more productive. Like any other training workshop, it produces slabs of accreditation.
-Addition of the Trash Compactor, which will have reactions to destroy technical advancement items three at a time. This is useful post-T2 for cleaning out the excess slabs, treatises, and other advancement items produced by documentation after you have built all of the possible tier 2 buildings, which can produce these items on-demand if you ever need more of them. Removal is done three at a time in order to preserve at least two backup copies if the reaction is left to repeat. This reaction yields a boulder of "amalgamite," a unique but otherwise uninteresting stone-like material inspired by these (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Railroad_tie#Plastic.2FRubber_Composite) (though lower-tech).
-Addition of the Crystal Growth Tank. This tier three mechanical building will produce "crystalline blocks" of any color, which are useful for megaprojects and colored artwork. These blocks require two mundane stones as reagents. While the reaction will usually (always) produce imperfected color crystals for the blocks (that are not transparent), it will sometimes (25% or so) also produce a rough crystal gemstone of the same color. These crystals are relatively low in value, making them a poor choice for decoration of goods, but excellent for colorful gem windows. This building is constructed using an empty barrel and a rough rainbow diamond, a gemstone that is a byproduct of hadrine synthesis. Because it now serves a function besides decoration, the chance of production of rainbow diamonds during hadrine synthesis has been increased from 25% to 50%, and their value has been decreased from 200 to 125.
-Official addition of zingers as portrayed in their 0.02a alpha release, but with graphics.
-Addition of a few new easter eggs.
-Addition of the first tier and part of the second tier of the parallel "ritual" tech tree. I have not made significant progress on this part yet, so I'll release more about that later, as my concepts are subject to modification as I go. What I can share right now is that advancement in the ritual tech tree is based more on resources invested rather than the mechanical tree's time and chances. The two tech trees will "cross over" at points with buildings and technologies requiring sufficient advances in both to unlock.
Post by: TehNoob on July 17, 2011, 11:59:51 pm
Post by: narhiril on July 18, 2011, 06:41:30 am
Long time lurker here! Just registered to tell you that this is a really awesome and creative mod. Keep it up and cheers! Btw, I tried today and found a minor problem - the training workshop takes any weapon, instead of a spear. Its fine by me tho. Good for putting the useless goblin stuff to use. :)
This requirement was changed late in development. It's supposed to take any weapon, but early documentation for the mod might not reflect this. I'll take a look at the manual and make sure it isn't telling people incorrect things again (it tends to do that when I write the entries before finalizing the raws).
Post by: trees on July 18, 2011, 03:07:52 pm
I haven't gotten much siege-wise, only goblins so far (pretty sure that bog trolls are extinct in my world, even though it said we were at war in the embark screen) but I'm partially terrified, partially looking forward to meeting some voidwalkers.
Post by: sir labreck on July 18, 2011, 03:28:43 pm
Post by: The Master on July 18, 2011, 04:43:58 pm
For what I read (the whole topic in fact) and people commenting it, it seem a great mod and I'll try it. Hopefully, it will be able to keep me scotch again my screen for hours (a thing, for how much I like DF, isn't able to do) :p Time to kick some bogtroll ass :D Or get destroy by them for as much as I know.trust me, It is THE BEST MOD EVER. It feels like(I think I've said this before) this was always in the game. it doesn't even feel like a mod! :D
Post by: narhiril on July 18, 2011, 07:44:42 pm
The errorlog had a single entry - I had misspelled "ALCHEMIST" in the crystal tank raws once. Armok has blessed this mod with a ten second period of cleaning up the errorlog. I can only hope that the rest of the raws go half as smoothly.
Of course, I still need to test these features in game for balance, looks, feel, and to make sure they stay true to the concepts, but the game can at least read everything I've put in so far, and that's normally a major time-consuming process.
All this means that I am likely to get to the ritual tech tree sooner than I had expected, which means more revelations coming soon.
Post by: Pan on July 18, 2011, 08:20:29 pm
Post by: trees on July 18, 2011, 08:41:34 pm
Post by: narhiril on July 18, 2011, 10:20:12 pm
Alchemy disasters can produce a variety of ailments, the most visible of which is radiation sickness (which can include light to heavy vomiting, fever, and very occasionally, excruciating death). Other possible results include (but are not limited to) your dwarf lighting themselves on fire (I lit up an entire map by accident one time, very FUN), temporary blindness, and easily-infected chemical burns and rashes. Though the possibility of a serious disaster is fairly low, alchemists who continue to experiment for long careers are much more likely to die or be horribly disfigured than just about anyone else, except perhaps a front line military grunt.
The next update of Dwarf Fortress is greatly expanding the possibilities for syndromes, so expect future developments in this department of risk and reward, particularly with the planned elements of the ritual tech tree. Version 0.14a will lay the tier one and tier two framework for this, but the ritual tech tree will not see a good portion of its features until 0.15, which is waiting for the next version of DF.
---
A little more about the ritual tree. The ritual tech tree is another system of linked buildings that runs parallel to the mechanical tech tree. It is not necessary to being the mechanical tech tree to begin or advance through much of the ritual tech tree, though there are a few planned "crossover" elements that will require certain advances in both trees.
The mechanical tech tree, thus far, has been based on percentage-chance research and development, relying on discoveries and the like to progress. The ritual tech tree, though chance is not completely absent, is based much more on the investment of large quantities of resources. Initially, the only ritual buildings available will be the altars. While altars do contain a number of chance-based reactions (making offerings to certain spheres in hope of rewards and not retribution), these reactions are not the means by which the tree is advanced. Unlocking the next advances in the ritual tech tree generally requires the accumulation of enough resources to build a larger and more extravagant ritual platform. Sometimes, you will need a few of a rare resource (i.e. platinum) to construct the statues necessary for a new temple. Sometimes, you will need a vast quantity of mundane resources (i.e. stone blocks) to create the arches and spires of a new shrine. In many cases, you will need some combination of the two. As the dwarves "advance" down the ritual tech tree, the temples and altars will become exponentially more lavish and complex, and the rituals performed at each will grow potentially more rewarding.
Also unlike the mechanical tech tree, the ritual tech tree does not "unlock" structures in the same way. While dwarves can record and document their technical advances for replication, temples and shrines do not become significantly cheaper with time or advancement. Thus, unlike the mechanical tech tree's "back up" copies of advancement items, you will be more inclined to defend your ritual buildings, as constructing a replacement is much more of a daunting challenge. The sheer size (in terms of both resources and tile space) of later ritual buildings makes this increasingly difficult, but increasingly rewarding.
--
While much of the ritual tree is still in the conceptual phase, a working preview of tiers one and two will be included with 0.14a.
Rest assured, the planned features for 0.14a's ritual tech tree are dynamic and very fun, but they account for less than half of what is planned in the future just for tiers one and two alone.
Post by: Pan on July 18, 2011, 10:28:15 pm
Post by: narhiril on July 18, 2011, 10:39:47 pm
I personally would like to see more the alchemy part expanded a little bit, and perhaps incorporated into the tech tree?
You'll be happy to hear this, then.
I have some concepts drawn up for an "advanced alchemy lab" as part of mechanical tier three, which will require more difficult reagents and produce more unique opportunities (and more potential for disasters). It is unlikely that this building will be finished for 0.14, but it's definitely on the horizon for the next version of DF.
Post by: Pan on July 19, 2011, 07:44:45 am
Anyway, I've decided to use the new zinger raws. After testing them out, I have some opinions on the situation. I used 5 wolves, and tested the syndromes by dropping a fragmentation zinger on them. Nothing happened. The putrids caused nausea just fine, and the fragmentation caused dizziness, but no blindness.
Some other things I've noticed is how zingers are hard to kill. Perhaps you should make them easier to kill? For living hand grenades, they really stink at detonating. While it's perfectly fine for the enemy to stab them to death, causing them to explode, it's really weird that way.
And maybe giving them pus instead of blood and reducing the amount of organs. Make them like cave blobs and floating guts - mysterious, cave creatures. Not complex, don't really fit with the ecology, and unknown. After all, dwarves are deliberately dropping them onto upright spikes to detonate them in the faces of goblins, so it may be better that they are less like an animal, and more like some primordial creation of nature.
Post by: Ult1mara on July 19, 2011, 06:46:50 pm
Ne ways thats me actually back this time and recording a Forlorn Realms Ep as we speak ^_^
Prob wont start putting any up till next week however
Ne ways hope to see good things ^_^
Ult1mara Out
Post by: Putnam on July 20, 2011, 02:50:29 am
Spoiler: Tag contains spoilers (click to show/hide)
I'm not sure if it removes aggressiveness towards the denizens, but it's worth a try.
Post by: narhiril on July 20, 2011, 06:20:37 am
I'm not sure (too difficult to test, I think), but I think I have a solution to your very deep-underground easter-egg creature fighting-with-local-denizens woe.Spoiler: Tag contains spoilers (click to show/hide)
I'm not sure if it removes aggressiveness towards the denizens, but it's worth a try.
I had the same idea at some point, but it didn't end up working out. Unfortunately, this token does not work outside of the procedural generated .dat files. Attempting to put it into the raws will throw out an unrecognized token error. The same is true for the token that denotes forgotten beasts.
As sad as I am to say so, this bug has run up against a technical limitation that I currently cannot get around. Fortunately, even though they die sometimes, their populations are so high that wandering replacements are inevitable. Consider their corpses an omen of things to come.
Although I'm a bit curious that no one has run into anything else fighting the stuff down there, since these guys are not the only surprise I have added. This suggests that there either there is something different about this particular creature that is causing the mayhem, or that there is some problem with the other creatures that is not revealing itself, even in world population dumps. Given the limited sample size, though, I have to consider the possibility that there's no more information simply because no one has thoroughly explored it yet.
Post by: Putnam on July 20, 2011, 01:48:26 pm
I'm not sure (too difficult to test, I think), but I think I have a solution to your very deep-underground easter-egg creature fighting-with-local-denizens woe.Spoiler: Tag contains spoilers (click to show/hide)
I'm not sure if it removes aggressiveness towards the denizens, but it's worth a try.
I had the same idea at some point, but it didn't end up working out. Unfortunately, this token does not work outside of the procedural generated .dat files. Attempting to put it into the raws will throw out an unrecognized token error. The same is true for the token that denotes forgotten beasts.
As sad as I am to say so, this bug has run up against a technical limitation that I currently cannot get around. Fortunately, even though they die sometimes, their populations are so high that wandering replacements are inevitable. Consider their corpses an omen of things to come.
Although I'm a bit curious that no one has run into anything else fighting the stuff down there, since these guys are not the only surprise I have added. This suggests that there either there is something different about this particular creature that is causing the mayhem, or that there is some problem with the other creatures that is not revealing itself, even in world population dumps. Given the limited sample size, though, I have to consider the possibility that there's no more information simply because no one has thoroughly explored it yet.
If you're talking about the
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Then, yes, I've seen them fighting often, too.
Post by: sir labreck on July 20, 2011, 01:55:20 pm
The meowkin are cool imo. I have read that you have some trouble to getting them being at the right place (too much powerful for what they should be). One idea would be to create special, small weapon, that they can only use. Such small weapon could be made not really effective. I remember a mod that focus mostly on creating a cat race (Catsplosion), the number were ridiculous, on any given period of time, the world contained 10k of this race. They would beat up the crap of elf, but they were no match to iron/steel dwarf. That exactly what the creator did, giving small, innefective weapon (Xbow replace by blowgun as an example :p). If they breed like crazy, survival shouldn't be a problem in worldgen.
Otherwise, you could put in lore that in fact they are pretty powerful as a civilization, but underestimate by the other because of their fashion (effeminate cloth for male, small size, etc.). Knowing that in small band they are weak, that should do the trick, one way or the other.
1 question, is it DF vanilla or something my side not correct, my dog don't stop fighting, so much I had to put them in a pit to avoid they kill my hen. Ha also, meokin are crazy, they pillaged 35 times a gobo town before destroying it, 25 times in the same wars :p
Post by: thatkid on July 20, 2011, 02:27:03 pm
Post by: sir labreck on July 20, 2011, 03:37:11 pm
Post by: thatkid on July 20, 2011, 03:42:51 pm
They need pasture? Didn't know about that, ho well, they are fine in their pit.Well, I occasionally pasture dogs who can't be trained because they came with an owner. I assumed you did the same thing.
As far as I know, that's the only reason animals will start to fight each other.
Post by: sir labreck on July 20, 2011, 03:45:42 pm
Post by: narhiril on July 20, 2011, 07:48:48 pm
If you're talking about theSpoiler (click to show/hide)
Then, yes, I've seen them fighting often, too.
Thank you for confirming that they are, in fact, working.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Pan on July 20, 2011, 08:45:23 pm
Post by: Pan on July 21, 2011, 01:22:51 am
Post by: SalmonGod on July 21, 2011, 03:55:52 am
Uh.. I just, um, got 10 ethereal spheres. Is this intentional? I mean, sure, it took a year of alchemy experiments, 2 alchemists barfing everywhere, and a quantum stockpile three tiles away, but 10 bars of adamantine grade metal? Isn't that a wee bit...
It's happened to me too. A couple times. With just one alchemist, who happened to migrate in as a high master, over a couple years. After melting down those spheres, it was only enough ether for a long sword and a spear. No big deal.
Post by: Ancient Thingy on July 21, 2011, 04:23:03 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: narhiril on July 21, 2011, 06:15:15 am
Uh.. I just, um, got 10 ethereal spheres. Is this intentional? I mean, sure, it took a year of alchemy experiments, 2 alchemists barfing everywhere, and a quantum stockpile three tiles away, but 10 bars of adamantine grade metal? Isn't that a wee bit...
Because of the way DF handles melting, it only yields two bars.
I have a (minor) problem with theAnyway, loving your mod! Thanks for making it.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I have not been able to replicate this problem. Please check your error log and post any contents.
Post by: Remuthra on July 21, 2011, 08:11:13 am
1) Special Operations Pigeon
(http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/703/specopspigeon.png/)
a spec ops pigeon? these guys are always around my fort, special pigeon easter egg?
2)Wierd Savant Guy
okay so I got this migrant wave on my 2nd year, and i was sorting them for what im going to stick them doing, and i go to the last one, pull up his skills and hes got something wierd about him.
(http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/856/wierdsavant1.png/)
Whats a savant skill? I figure i should go check the info screen since this guy is probably some wierd savant or a hidden caste or something, and i get this.
(http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/837/wierdsavant2.png/)
Whats enchanting? I dont see an enchanting related workshop. Is this a super secret eaqster egg? Maybe a new feature? In any case, anyone know what this guy is used as? I might as well use him for his savant skill, but i have no idea where to put him.
Post by: Pan on July 21, 2011, 10:51:57 am
Still, one of my luckiest fortress ever, beating even that other fort where I got a high master grower and high master mason in the first migrant wave- when the first
Then the next mood got me a alder statue worth as much as the ether one. Then here's what I got for the next few moods: an iron artifact mace (better than iovium? Cuz I mined out all the small pockets of it, and I've got 10 bars of it, plus 3 abyssmal eyes, so I'm currently contemplating what to do), an iron reactive breastplate (how good are these, and what does the 'reactive' mean?). Then my luck ran out and I got an artifact craft, and then the master armor prodigy died of a mood cuz I have no yarn(He was gonna make something awesome with a mithril bar! >:().
Savants should show what their good at when you view their skills.
Post by: Carpman on July 21, 2011, 11:18:51 am
Post by: thatkid on July 21, 2011, 11:23:29 am
okay 1st of all great mod first one ive added to my repertoire since i dont like game changing or anything being easier, the whole point of df is that you survive despite huge seiges and creepy stuff trying to maul you, and even as you find better things to help you, the enemies get stronger, and you're never safe. This is a principle that should be added to minecraft, imo, because it doesn't have enough threats. 2ndly, i think ive found 2 easter eggs in my game, so heres the screenshots.
1) Special Operations Pigeon
(http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/703/specopspigeon.png/)
a spec ops pigeon? these guys are always around my fort, special pigeon easter egg?
2)Wierd Savant Guy
okay so I got this migrant wave on my 2nd year, and i was sorting them for what im going to stick them doing, and i go to the last one, pull up his skills and hes got something wierd about him.
(http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/856/wierdsavant1.png/)
Whats a savant skill? I figure i should go check the info screen since this guy is probably some wierd savant or a hidden caste or something, and i get this.
(http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/837/wierdsavant2.png/)
Whats enchanting? I dont see an enchanting related workshop. Is this a super secret eaqster egg? Maybe a new feature? In any case, anyone know what this guy is used as? I might as well use him for his savant skill, but i have no idea where to put him.
Savants are good at Alchemy. They are the original savant, the OS if you will. All other savants are just copy cats, they be steppin' and trying to get in on the savant's game, but being able to make really cool crossbows does not at all compare to...whatever it is that alchemists do which makes use of quality modifiers.
Carpman, IIRC there's no way to make the alchemy skill selectable in that regard. Also, as far as I know, you won't get any migrants with the alchemy skill pre-given save for the aforementioned savants.
Post by: Pan on July 21, 2011, 11:27:40 am
Keep in mind to put it at a distance from other things. My two alchemy labs have a channel, two sets of doors, and a raisable drawbridge between them and the other magma workshops.
Post by: Carpman on July 21, 2011, 11:32:52 am
Post by: Carn on July 21, 2011, 11:38:46 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I sure do like spoiler tags today.
Post by: SalmonGod on July 21, 2011, 03:45:18 pm
Alchemist skill does not matter. My alchemists were useless peasants (a potash maker and a novice clothier, I believe). Have a quantum stone dump next to them, and only conduct alchemy experiments in magma labs. Most of the time, you'll just receive useless copper, silver or gold. Occasionally mithril, and rarely ectoplasm (for banshee funeral rites) and ether. Alchemists always get sick from over exposure, and will barf all over the place. They might occasionally die from the rarer but deadlier symptoms, so alchemy skill does not matter.
My level 12 alchemist has been going for 3 years, and has yet to get sick or injured and produces a lot of gold, silver, and pig iron + enough ethereal spheres for 3 bars of ether, a valuable statue from a banshee rite, and several bars of mithril and steel. It seems to me like the skill level does matter.
Post by: narhiril on July 21, 2011, 03:49:33 pm
okay 1st of all great mod first one ive added to my repertoire since i dont like game changing or anything being easier, the whole point of df is that you survive despite huge seiges and creepy stuff trying to maul you, and even as you find better things to help you, the enemies get stronger, and you're never safe. This is a principle that should be added to minecraft, imo, because it doesn't have enough threats. 2ndly, i think ive found 2 easter eggs in my game, so heres the screenshots.
1) Special Operations Pigeon
(http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/703/specopspigeon.png/)
a spec ops pigeon? these guys are always around my fort, special pigeon easter egg?
2)Wierd Savant Guy
okay so I got this migrant wave on my 2nd year, and i was sorting them for what im going to stick them doing, and i go to the last one, pull up his skills and hes got something wierd about him.
(http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/856/wierdsavant1.png/)
Whats a savant skill? I figure i should go check the info screen since this guy is probably some wierd savant or a hidden caste or something, and i get this.
(http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/837/wierdsavant2.png/)
Whats enchanting? I dont see an enchanting related workshop. Is this a super secret eaqster egg? Maybe a new feature? In any case, anyone know what this guy is used as? I might as well use him for his savant skill, but i have no idea where to put him.
The pigeons are an easter egg. Don't worry, they're so small that they won't affect game play. The savant is a naturally gifted alchemist. The reference to "muttering the word 'enchantment'" in his description is a nod to Sandal from Dragon Age.
Alchemy skill impacts the quality of the products from alchemy reactions. For alchemical experiments that yield bars, this is irrelevant, but if you're performing a banshee funeral rite or sentinel core research, you're more likely to get a better quality reward from a skilled alchemist.
I love that theuses aSpoiler (click to show/hide)Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I sure do like spoiler tags today.
I am pleased that someone notices the little things ;)
Post by: SalmonGod on July 21, 2011, 03:55:25 pm
Alchemy skill impacts the quality of the products from alchemy reactions. For alchemical experiments that yield bars, this is irrelevant
Actually, it kind of is relevant. I've had to melt down a bunch of masterwork ethereal spheres, which made my alchemist unhappy. He killed some poor mason in one punch.
Post by: thatkid on July 21, 2011, 04:35:03 pm
He had obtained the perfect tools with which to learn more about the ethereal, and your fortress melted them down so some dude could have a nifty sword.Alchemy skill impacts the quality of the products from alchemy reactions. For alchemical experiments that yield bars, this is irrelevant
Actually, it kind of is relevant. I've had to melt down a bunch of masterwork ethereal spheres, which made my alchemist unhappy. He killed some poor mason in one punch.
Wouldn't you be angry?
Post by: Carn on July 21, 2011, 04:37:25 pm
Just out of curiosity, I know by default ice can't be used to make anything apart from being used as a building material for walls and the like, and it doesn't show up in the list of stones. Is this editable? Icicle spears and bolts and ice spike traps and the like would be pretty awesome.
edit: I know traps can't be edited, I meant using spikes made out of ice, for a spike trap.
Post by: narhiril on July 21, 2011, 07:09:25 pm
My hunter just managed to (somehow) down a leviathan that crawled out of the frozen arctic ocean and sloooooowly hauled its body to the butcher shop....I now have enough food to last *years*. I imagine the dwarves just dragged the entire thing into the dining room and are slowly carving chunks off it's frozen bulk. I'll probably lose the fort to lack of water if anyone stubs a toe though....unless I can mod in those bonfire's of warlords without ruining the save. Probably should have done that before I started.
Just out of curiosity, I know by default ice can't be used to make anything apart from being used as a building material for walls and the like, and it doesn't show up in the list of stones. Is this editable? Icicle spears and bolts and ice spike traps and the like would be pretty awesome.
edit: I know traps can't be edited, I meant using spikes made out of ice, for a spike trap.
I'll look into this, but I don't believe ice is even included in the raws. It might, however, be possible to use it in reactions.
Post by: Merijeek on July 21, 2011, 07:20:26 pm
What is that? Savant teacher?
Post by: thatkid on July 21, 2011, 07:23:22 pm
Question...I've got a miner that's a "Master Savant".
What is that? Savant teacher?
-snip-
Savants are good at Alchemy. They are the original savant, the OS if you will. All other savants are just copy cats, they be steppin' and trying to get in on the savant's game, but being able to make really cool crossbows does not at all compare to...whatever it is that alchemists do which makes use of quality modifiers.
-snip-
Post by: Carn on July 21, 2011, 08:45:09 pm
I'll look into this, but I don't believe ice is even included in the raws. It might, however, be possible to use it in reactions.
Thanks! I doubt I'm the only one, but I have a thing for ice forts - harsh, unforgiving environments that have the potential to kill you just from exposure! Freezing temperatures mean all sorts of crazy freezing trap project possibilities!
Glaciers, tundra, and arctic ocean embarks also tend to be very flat, which I also like. Low elevation, too, if it's near an arctic ocean - faster access to caverns! I hate digging 50-100 levels and not finding them.
Post by: thatkid on July 21, 2011, 09:23:39 pm
If it isn't possible, I'd be more than happy to create a building that converts water into blocks of ice and then turns those ice into weapons. It wouldn't be 'real' ice, mind you, but it would still do the trick.I'll look into this, but I don't believe ice is even included in the raws. It might, however, be possible to use it in reactions.
Thanks! I doubt I'm the only one, but I have a thing for ice forts - harsh, unforgiving environments that have the potential to kill you just from exposure! Freezing temperatures mean all sorts of crazy freezing trap project possibilities!
Glaciers, tundra, and arctic ocean embarks also tend to be very flat, which I also like. Low elevation, too, if it's near an arctic ocean - faster access to caverns! I hate digging 50-100 levels and not finding them.
Post by: Pan on July 21, 2011, 09:52:07 pm
Alchemist skill does not matter. My alchemists were useless peasants (a potash maker and a novice clothier, I believe). Have a quantum stone dump next to them, and only conduct alchemy experiments in magma labs. Most of the time, you'll just receive useless copper, silver or gold. Occasionally mithril, and rarely ectoplasm (for banshee funeral rites) and ether. Alchemists always get sick from over exposure, and will barf all over the place. They might occasionally die from the rarer but deadlier symptoms, so alchemy skill does not matter.
My level 12 alchemist has been going for 3 years, and has yet to get sick or injured and produces a lot of gold, silver, and pig iron + enough ethereal spheres for 3 bars of ether, a valuable statue from a banshee rite, and several bars of mithril and steel. It seems to me like the skill level does matter.
Both of mine have been going for 2 years. They are both unskilled. I have gotten a valuable statue from the banshee rite, 2 bars of ether, and lots of gold, silver and pig iron as well as 3 bars of mithril. However, they've been sick 90% of the time. But looking through the raws, I think the byproducts that cause sickness are totally random, and aren't affected by the skill. So how did you manage to get them going 3 years without even a fever?
Post by: Ancient Thingy on July 22, 2011, 04:52:05 am
Post by: grank6 on July 22, 2011, 10:20:36 am
also i just got a giant eagle from the elves i'm so building a temple to worship them for that eagle
Post by: TehNoob on July 22, 2011, 10:25:11 am
A strange mood armorsmith took me ether bar... :'( How good are they as armor?
>:( >:( >:( >:( >:( It wasnt even an armorsmith mood! He used his novice metalcrafting and mooded a F***KING ETHER TRUMPET! RAGEQUIT
Post by: Carn on July 22, 2011, 11:38:29 am
Too bad, guess u can't have any... Re gen the world? Check to see if you really cant get it from home city.
A strange mood armorsmith took me ether bar... :'( How good are they as armor?
>:( >:( >:( >:( >:( It wasnt even an armorsmith mood! He used his novice metalcrafting and mooded a F***KING ETHER TRUMPET! RAGEQUIT
But hey, your fortress will have beautiful music, right?
Post by: grank6 on July 22, 2011, 11:45:49 am
basicly the dwarf plays music with a instrucment and it raises the spirt of the dwarfs
also on topic
i found some orichalcum at my embark site it was part of the natural wall in volcano i guess dwarf fortress hack lied to me when i checked to see if there was any
Post by: TehNoob on July 22, 2011, 11:46:00 am
Post by: Carn on July 22, 2011, 11:55:36 am
If it isn't possible, I'd be more than happy to create a building that converts water into blocks of ice and then turns those ice into weapons. It wouldn't be 'real' ice, mind you, but it would still do the trick.
Honestly, if you call it ice, and it has the material properties of ice, it is ice. Perhaps you can say the dwarves used rune magic or SCIENCE to keep it ever-cold. With that excuse, you wouldn't even have to really keep ice material properties per se. Actually, that would be a pretty cool tech tree option. A god of winter you could sacrifice to, and get ice blocks to build with, or ice bars to make ice weapons?
I like ice.
Post by: narhiril on July 22, 2011, 03:14:54 pm
Blown through the material that signifies those who are damned? (the syndrome intended for ether was something about the damned)
Leftover code from very early testing (0.04, which wasn't even public). Ether was supposed to cause syndromes in certain creatures when a weapon made out of it became stuck in them, but due to the way syndromes and contact tokens currently work, this wasn't possible. It may be revisited in the future as syndromes are expanded.
Ignore it for now, it doesn't actually do anything.
Honestly, if you call it ice, and it has the material properties of ice, it is ice. Perhaps you can say the dwarves used rune magic or SCIENCE to keep it ever-cold. With that excuse, you wouldn't even have to really keep ice material properties per se. Actually, that would be a pretty cool tech tree option. A god of winter you could sacrifice to, and get ice blocks to build with, or ice bars to make ice weapons?
I like ice.
This idea has now been noted. :)
Post by: SalmonGod on July 22, 2011, 03:36:21 pm
Post by: Carn on July 22, 2011, 04:19:52 pm
On the same note as ice, I'd like to see bone usable as a building material. Walls, bridges, etc made of bone would be amazingly awesome. I imagine this is really easy to do, and I've been planning to look up how on my own at some point... but I thought I might as well mention it.
Oh, I like this. I do. Possibly more than ice, even. I am picturing this: http://www.ludd.luth.se/~silver_p/NewSedlec/index.htm
Post by: SalmonGod on July 22, 2011, 04:22:55 pm
On the same note as ice, I'd like to see bone usable as a building material. Walls, bridges, etc made of bone would be amazingly awesome. I imagine this is really easy to do, and I've been planning to look up how on my own at some point... but I thought I might as well mention it.
Oh, I like this. I do. Possibly more than ice, even. I am picturing this: http://www.ludd.luth.se/~silver_p/NewSedlec/index.htm
You just gave me the awesome idea of constructing soldier's tombs from the bones of their slain enemies. The more successful they were in battle, the larger the tomb :)
Post by: Merijeek on July 22, 2011, 05:12:47 pm
Post by: TehNoob on July 22, 2011, 05:16:27 pm
Post by: Carn on July 22, 2011, 05:43:56 pm
You just gave me the awesome idea of constructing soldier's tombs from the bones of their slain enemies. The more successful they were in battle, the larger the tomb :)
I like this. Very much.
On an unrelated note, is there any way to tell if an embark has underground water? In 40d you could search for underground rivers / pools, not so here.
Post by: SirAaronIII on July 22, 2011, 06:40:40 pm
Post by: narhiril on July 22, 2011, 09:16:50 pm
't' at the lab ;)I got the hadrine workshop, saved up pure mithril, steel and tungsten bars, and made some ash. The reaction's still red.(lol, never mind. Forgot I had turned all the steel into the damascus variety.) Also, once I made the hadrine block, extracted the strands and woven it into mesh, how can i make armor out of it?
The reactions you are looking for are "fashion reactive platemail" and "fashion reactive helmet." They can both be found at the advanced mechanics workshop, and require one hadrine mesh an three advanced mechanisms of any material(s). I am going to go back and make sure that the manual has a note about this for future versions.
I am also planning to look into more uses for bone in the future, including new types of bone, bone furniture, and bone-derived building materials. I'm looking into (read: experimenting with) moving the legendary creatures - such as wyverns, amaroks, aatxes, etcetera - to a stronger, modified bone template. This should make their bones both significantly more useful and may help a bit with keeping them alive in longer world gens. If things look promising, I may even go back and adjust their leather material properties.
Post by: Carn on July 22, 2011, 10:04:11 pm
't' at the lab ;)I got the hadrine workshop, saved up pure mithril, steel and tungsten bars, and made some ash. The reaction's still red.(lol, never mind. Forgot I had turned all the steel into the damascus variety.) Also, once I made the hadrine block, extracted the strands and woven it into mesh, how can i make armor out of it?
The reactions you are looking for are "fashion reactive platemail" and "fashion reactive helmet." They can both be found at the advanced mechanics workshop, and require one hadrine mesh an three advanced mechanisms of any material(s). I am going to go back and make sure that the manual has a note about this for future versions.
I am also planning to look into more uses for bone in the future, including new types of bone, bone furniture, and bone-derived building materials. I'm looking into (read: experimenting with) moving the legendary creatures - such as wyverns, amaroks, aatxes, etcetera - to a stronger, modified bone template. This should make their bones both significantly more useful and may help a bit with keeping them alive in longer world gens. If things look promising, I may even go back and adjust their leather material properties.
Leatherworkers and bonecrafters rejoice! I like the risk vs reward style of this. I also like the idea of wearing dragonscale armor and leviathan fang spike traps, etc.
Also, if you're allowing bone to be made into weapons it would give an early option other than wood for basic weaponry. Options are good. Especially since wood is so crucial early. No two embarks are identical (ie, little metal), so having viable non-metal progression is pretty awesome. I know the mod mentions that it was designed for high ore frequency, but options like this would help alleviate that a bit. The whole feel of enhancing leather and bonecrafting in this manner just feels right. Like the rest of this mod, it feels natural. It feels like things toady should have put in already.
Ice and bone everywhere!
Post by: Pan on July 23, 2011, 02:44:58 am
Post by: Carn on July 23, 2011, 11:21:24 am
The idea of praying into a bucket amuses me, but really I would like to see the game be playable in more environments (glacier/desert/tundra/badlands/etc) where water is scarce or nonexistant. Kinda like toady putting in the ability to buy bags of sand from traders for maps with no sand.
Anyway, just a thought.
Post by: Carn on July 23, 2011, 03:23:33 pm
Post by: SalmonGod on July 23, 2011, 03:47:16 pm
In a similar vein, being able to produce small amounts of magma would be pretty amazing, too. Not really sure what kind of container that would require though, or if it would still ignite the dwarf carrying it.... or I guess it could just flow out of the altar, which could be hilarious.
This could be the result of failed ritual attempts. The gods in DF could think the same way we do.
"These dwarves have become a problem. It was cute at first, but they will not leave me the hell alone. That's it. I'm pouring magma on it."
Post by: narhiril on July 24, 2011, 08:32:48 pm
What does the 'reactive' in the armor and helm mean? And how much more powerful are reactive armors? (artifact iron reactive armor. How good is this?)
Reactive armor uses a series of spring-loaded mechanisms behind a flexible hadrine mesh to "kick back" when struck, absorbing a good portion of the impact.
It's very loosely based on an early version of a real-life technology, which usually employs explosives or extreme voltage rather than mechanisms for greater effect. Modern day "explosive reactive armor" is used in armored vehicles to absorb the force of explosive or penetrating munitions.
In a similar vein, being able to produce small amounts of magma would be pretty amazing, too. Not really sure what kind of container that would require though, or if it would still ignite the dwarf carrying it.... or I guess it could just flow out of the altar, which could be hilarious.
This is significantly more problematic than water production. Magma, unfortunately, cannot be "created" in the same way. Even if I threw in a reaction to put out an object of sufficient fixed temperature to melt on creation, you would be left with an item called "magma" sitting in the workshop - very hot, but unable to be converted to the red fluid you desire.
For water, this is not as much of an issue because there is an in-game mechanism to transfer water from a bucket object to a fluid - pond designations. If I produce a bucket of water in a reaction, it can be "dumped" into a usable fluid, or simply used from the bucket for many applications.
I still anticipate a bit of a technical hurdle here, as water/ice is not a raw-defined material, so I need to find a way to produce it in a reaction without being able to simply look up its ID, which may or may not be possible (I really don't know, I'll be looking and asking around about this). For ice as a building material, I can simply create a "water" duplicate material, call it "ice," and give it whatever properties I want, but the game needs to recognize liquid water for its special functionality, so this method isn't an option for water reactions. If I want a reaction to produce water, it needs to produce the hard-coded kind rather than a modded "clone" version that cannot replicate all of water's usual functions.
That being said, I really like the idea of being able to use the ritual tech tree for an unorthodox water source, so I hope I can get it to work.
Post by: SirAaronIII on July 24, 2011, 10:42:25 pm
Post by: Hitty40 on July 24, 2011, 11:00:40 pm
Rather than magma, you could use another explosive material like those in alchemy called "divine rejection" or something. :P
I can imagine someone using that and then it explodes.
"AND THE HEAVENS SHALL TREMEBLE."
Post by: narhiril on July 25, 2011, 01:43:14 am
Rather than magma, you could use another explosive material like those in alchemy called "divine rejection" or something. :P
Oh don't worry, there will be plenty of this. I'm just holding most of it off until the next version of DF, when some more interesting forms of divine intervention (for better or worse) become possible.
Now, when it comes to lore, I'm at a bit of a crossroads when it comes to gods and the like. I can either clearly define them or leave them extremely ambiguous. If I chose to leave them ambiguous, there won't be any conflict with randomly-generated gods and goddesses. However, if I choose to define some that "transcend" world generation (similar to how Armok is the blood god no matter what else happens), it will make for some much more interesting lore.
My current plan is to incorporate a little bit of both. The temples and altars will be named for the virtues, elements, or symbols they represent (very generic), but there will be items added with references to the upcoming lore. That way, you may have genned a world with a fire god named "Amshil," but you may still get a "Breath of Valkor" at your temple, which lights everything on fire (I know, been there, done that, but it's just an example). The way I was planning to explain this was to introduce the concept of "old gods."
"Old gods" would, in lore, be the premium divine powers of each of their respective spheres. However, these powers were split, withdrew, or were otherwise disposed of thousands of years prior to the world of LFR. The usurpers, those who came after them, took up their mantles and fought over the shreds of power left behind. These "new gods" would be the randomly-generated ones, but their powers would be derived from the "old gods." Armok would be considered the only one of the old gods to have remained. Prayer to an altar would fall upon the ears of a new god, but the powers (or retribution) bestowed would bear the names and marks of an old god.
This seems like a good topic for a poll, but rather than giving you all the immediate option to tell me what you think using my packaged one-word answers, I'd like to hear some opinions - agreement or disagreement equally welcome - on what I've got so far.
Post by: Carn on July 25, 2011, 03:08:44 am
Rather than magma, you could use another explosive material like those in alchemy called "divine rejection" or something. :P
Oh don't worry, there will be plenty of this. I'm just holding most of it off until the next version of DF, when some more interesting forms of divine intervention (for better or worse) become possible.
Now, when it comes to lore, I'm at a bit of a crossroads when it comes to gods and the like. I can either clearly define them or leave them extremely ambiguous. If I chose to leave them ambiguous, there won't be any conflict with randomly-generated gods and goddesses. However, if I choose to define some that "transcend" world generation (similar to how Armok is the blood god no matter what else happens), it will make for some much more interesting lore.
My current plan is to incorporate a little bit of both. The temples and altars will be named for the virtues, elements, or symbols they represent (very generic), but there will be items added with references to the upcoming lore. That way, you may have genned a world with a fire god named "Amshil," but you may still get a "Breath of Valkor" at your temple, which lights everything on fire (I know, been there, done that, but it's just an example). The way I was planning to explain this was to introduce the concept of "old gods."
"Old gods" would, in lore, be the premium divine powers of each of their respective spheres. However, these powers were split, withdrew, or were otherwise disposed of thousands of years prior to the world of LFR. The usurpers, those who came after them, took up their mantles and fought over the shreds of power left behind. These "new gods" would be the randomly-generated ones, but their powers would be derived from the "old gods." Armok would be considered the only one of the old gods to have remained. Prayer to an altar would fall upon the ears of a new god, but the powers (or retribution) bestowed would bear the names and marks of an old god.
This seems like a good topic for a poll, but rather than giving you all the immediate option to tell me what you think using my packaged one-word answers, I'd like to hear some opinions - agreement or disagreement equally welcome - on what I've got so far.
I really like this idea. It even gives a lore reason of why you might "advance" up the ritual tech tree - uncovering lore of old gods, bringing their power back to the world in more dramatic displays - perhaps seeking favor of specific old gods ....
... all this mentioning of old gods has me envisioning some hapless dwarf tinkering in the orrery and suddenly realizing that "the stars are right" and bam, death by Cthulu
Post by: Pan on July 25, 2011, 03:28:31 am
Post by: sir labreck on July 25, 2011, 01:43:45 pm
Post by: thatkid on July 25, 2011, 01:57:10 pm
Post by: narhiril on July 25, 2011, 09:45:01 pm
Right now, I have finished about a quarter of the raws for tier one. I have decided on a generic "sacrificial altar" for the main tier one building. On this altar, you will be able to make two kinds of sacrifices to three (or possibly four, depending on how well the water thing works out) causes - shelter, power, wealth, and (possibly) sustenance. In addition to these six to eight sacrifices, there will be another workshop for creating components of the tier two buildings (I haven't even started these yet, but I have some ideas written down).
The "shelter" rituals are currently completed and functional - at least, I think. The error log is blank and they seem to load up fine, but I have decided to put off formally testing them until I have most of the other ones done to save on development time a bit.
--
"Lesser Ritual of Shelter"
This ritual consumes five of any plant. It can produce low quality shields or small amounts of wood. It has a small probability of evoking disfavor of the gods, resulting in chastisement (severe pain for a short duration) of the performer of the ritual and *possibly* the torching of anything left on the altar. Performing this ritual in close proximity to grass or a wood stockpile is generally considered a bad idea, but the direct risk level to dwarven lives is very low.
"Greater Ritual of Shelter"
A more extravagant version of the ritual, this consumes fifteen plants of any kind. In addition to the possible rewards from the lesser version (whose rates have been increased substantially), this ritual is capable of drawing a stronger response from the divine powers. You may find a shield or weapon of a unique material and/or design (comparable in strength to iron). This allows a dwarven civilization to potentially arm itself before it finds metal, though the quantity of these weapons is, of course, limited by probability. However, being a more evocative reaction, the chances of drawing disfavor are also slightly higher.
These rituals will be mildly useful for some dwarven civilizations, but extraordinarily useful for those in harsher environments, where metal or wood (or both) are scarce. Though they are not the most interesting concepts ever to surface here, note that these are base level reactions which do not require anything other than the construction of an altar from a few common building materials. The more exciting rewards and consequences will come later on, as the potential for risk and reward is expanded in the next version of DF.
Post by: Pan on July 25, 2011, 11:57:23 pm
Post by: Hitty40 on July 26, 2011, 12:45:23 am
Plants? Plants for the blood god? Blasphemy! Elf worshipping heretic! Lynch him!
Look at whose talking, you should be lynched! Your talking about another person giving plants to the blood god! Everyone knows plants have blood in them, and you still want to lynch him?!
Post by: narhiril on July 26, 2011, 12:50:44 am
A temple to one power will invoke the blessings of that power or the wrath of others. Sacrificing a great deal to Visthel will incur her blessings, but also the jealousy of the other gods. Expect to see the retribution and influences of gods not limited to their respective temples and rituals. If a priest of Visthel comes running to the hospital, bleeding from every orifice, you can be sure that Armok had a hand in it. Oops, I leaked a name. Silly me.
I have some very FUN plans for this in tier two and beyond that I am not currently willing to reveal. Unfortunately, many of them - both positive and negative - involve the currently unreleased features of the next version of DF, so I can't do much more than framework at this point.
Post by: Pan on July 26, 2011, 01:41:09 am
Plants? Plants for the blood god? Blasphemy! Elf worshipping heretic! Lynch him!
Look at whose talking, you should be lynched! Your talking about another person giving plants to the blood god! Everyone knows plants have blood in them, and you still want to lynch him?!
The common definition of blood is usually not the life fluids found within plants, good sir.
Anyway, is it even possible to make reactions that take edible meats (and organs), and nothing else?
Post by: Carn on July 26, 2011, 02:30:51 am
Post by: Pan on July 26, 2011, 09:18:16 am
Also, I melted some masterful ethereal spheres I got from a Savant alchemist. He tantrumed, punched a brewer, and got lashed to death by the voidshard whip wielding fortress guard.
Has anyone gotten hadrine yet? I've gotten a few woven meshes, enough for 11 pieces of hadrine equipment. Should I make helmets or chestplates?
Post by: thatkid on July 26, 2011, 11:28:52 am
Just had a voidwalker siege show up with a bunch of war spec ops pigeons. Might want to fix that.
Also, I melted some masterful ethereal spheres I got from a Savant alchemist. He tantrumed, punched a brewer, and got lashed to death by the voidshard whip wielding fortress guard.
Has anyone gotten hadrine yet? I've gotten a few woven meshes, enough for 11 pieces of hadrine equipment. Should I make helmets or chestplates?
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Pan on July 26, 2011, 12:31:54 pm
Post by: narhiril on July 26, 2011, 02:34:16 pm
In response to the image, the voidwalkers weren't exactly riding them. The pigeons just sat at the edge of the map when I opened the ballista salvo corridor to let the voidwalkers in. It was a slaughter, and I only had a broken swordsdwarf nose to show for it.
How I can't wait for moddable siege engines... (WAY down the road).
Anyways, that pigeon thing is a side effect of giving them a trainable token (since they show up in very common biomes). Consider yourself lucky they didn't bring an animal that can actually kill you. Think of it as a (failed) test of the voidwalkers' new "homing pigeon defense array." Not all technologies work out in the end.
Also, I melted some masterful ethereal spheres I got from a Savant alchemist. He tantrumed, punched a brewer, and got lashed to death by the voidshard whip wielding fortress guard.
Has anyone gotten hadrine yet? I've gotten a few woven meshes, enough for 11 pieces of hadrine equipment. Should I make helmets or chestplates?
This problem seems to originate from the melt reaction (which is hardcoded). For some reason, melt reactions cause negative thoughts in the creators, but custom reactions do not - this was a major concern when I was testing slabs of accreditation, which turned out, thankfully, to be unfounded. I will probably introduce a special reaction to the smelter to specifically consume ethereal spheres and produce ethereal bars - this should give the same result without the tantrum effect since the object is "used" rather than "destroyed" by the internal definitions. This is something I can easily tack on to the next version.
And if your military is wearing anything less than d-steel, make helms. Helms save more lives. If you've got other high quality metals, though, chest plates have some excellent coverage. Putting both together is like creating a little mountain of metal that is only truly vulnerable at its extremities.
Also, in case you were wondering, it's impossible for me to create usable hadrine gloves due to the way DF handles left/right glove assignments (this cannot be replicated in a custom reaction right now). I could theoretically create boots and greaves, but they might come much later.
Post by: Carn on July 26, 2011, 04:40:59 pm
Human defender: "The enemy will overwhelm us!"
Dwarf: "Bloody hell they will, this is a DWARVEN fortress!"
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
It's so beautiful. I shed a tear.
Post by: narhiril on July 26, 2011, 04:44:06 pm
And @ Carn, no, unfortunately, but Assassins of Kings is one of the things I have been meaning to buy for a while (I fell in love with the first one when it came out). That alone sounds like reason enough to buy it.
In other news, I am working on "enhanced" material templates for legendary creatures. So far, I've only finished the bone, but it's working just fine - material properties and values seem to be working fine. Also, I finally got around to annihilating that minor bug with "world bearer's shell" being listed in the stones menu. Land movers should now be an order of magnitude more durable, and most large creatures (including leviathans, wyverns, etc) will have stronger and more valuable bones. Since dragons are in a file I have already modified, I will be back-adjusting them as well. The manual will include sufficiently detailed (and brief) compatibility instructions for this change, if anyone is actively using this mod with other mods that modify that file.
Improved leather is in the works for this update as well - I will likely be able to do this quickly by just tacking it on to the new material template I am using for legendary creatures.
Post by: Carn on July 26, 2011, 06:05:16 pm
Spec ops pigeons. No less ridiculous than spec ops clowns (http://artoftrolling.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/chatroulette-trolling-untitled47.jpg).
And @ Carn, no, unfortunately, but Assassins of Kings is one of the things I have been meaning to buy for a while (I fell in love with the first one when it came out). That alone sounds like reason enough to buy it.
I loved the first, got the second during the steam summer sale event. The devs have already put out a balance patch and an optimization patch, and the game is fantastic. I do wish they hadn't added all the pre-order stuff to any new game, because it makes finding new items boring for the first part of the game (since the pre order stuff is so good) but I suppose it can be modded out (or just dropped/sold)
Post by: Carn on July 26, 2011, 06:07:21 pm
In other news, I am working on "enhanced" material templates for legendary creatures. So far, I've only finished the bone, but it's working just fine - material properties and values seem to be working fine.
I must have posted just as you were editing to add this, I missed it the first time. This sounds promising! Tons of potential here. I'm excited. Thanks!
Post by: narhiril on July 26, 2011, 06:20:13 pm
In other news, I am working on "enhanced" material templates for legendary creatures. So far, I've only finished the bone, but it's working just fine - material properties and values seem to be working fine.
I must have posted just as you were editing to add this, I missed it the first time. This sounds promising! Tons of potential here. I'm excited. Thanks!
Yeah, sorry, I edit a lot >.>
There's a bit more now.
Post by: SalmonGod on July 26, 2011, 08:05:37 pm
Just wondering if anyone else has been playing the second witcher game, and gotten to the siege of the dwarf fortress....
Human defender: "The enemy will overwhelm us!"
Dwarf: "Bloody hell they will, this is a DWARVEN fortress!"Spoiler (click to show/hide)
It's so beautiful. I shed a tear.
You just single-handedly sold the game to me. I've had The Witcher on my steam account for about a year, but haven't gotten around to playing it and didn't have it as a high priority. It's now next on my list.
Post by: Pan on July 26, 2011, 08:23:25 pm
In response to the image, the voidwalkers weren't exactly riding them. The pigeons just sat at the edge of the map when I opened the ballista salvo corridor to let the voidwalkers in. It was a slaughter, and I only had a broken swordsdwarf nose to show for it.
(failed) test of the voidwalkers' new "homing pigeon defense array."
...
You have a very active imaginary life, narhiril. :P
But to make the voidwalkers even harder - maybe their sieges could be done in stealth? That would up the difficulty a lot. The reason I can kill voidwalkers all the time is that they need to path through lots of marksdwarves, and that's because I can see they have no energy projecting voidwalkers in their ranks. If their sieges are stealthed, it would significantly up the difficulty, since I would hesitate to send marksdwarves to their doom. (It's their cloaking technology)
I always sort of imagine voidwalkers sort of like the Protoss. It's the flash of yellow when they die that does it. (protoss zealots teleport away in a flash when they are heavily injured - 0 hit points.) Also, your graphical representation of them are all grey, no mouths, and shining eyes.
Post by: narhiril on July 26, 2011, 08:30:30 pm
In response to the image, the voidwalkers weren't exactly riding them. The pigeons just sat at the edge of the map when I opened the ballista salvo corridor to let the voidwalkers in. It was a slaughter, and I only had a broken swordsdwarf nose to show for it.
(failed) test of the voidwalkers' new "homing pigeon defense array."
...
You have a very active imaginary life, narhiril. :P
But to make the voidwalkers even harder - maybe their sieges could be done in stealth? That would up the difficulty a lot. The reason I can kill voidwalkers all the time is that they need to path through lots of marksdwarves, and that's because I can see they have no energy projecting voidwalkers in their ranks. If their sieges are stealthed, it would significantly up the difficulty, since I would hesitate to send marksdwarves to their doom. (It's their cloaking technology)
I always sort of imagine voidwalkers sort of like the Protoss. It's the flash of yellow when they die that does it. (protoss zealots teleport away in a flash when they are heavily injured - 0 hit points.) Also, your graphical representation of them are all grey, no mouths, and shining eyes.
Who said it was imaginary? I have a HPDA prototype in my basement...
...That's actually one of the few things I don't have a prototype of in my basement, but that's another story.
I'm not sure if it's possible to make their sieges stealth - I have never put an AMBUSHPREDATOR token on an entity race before, and I have no idea how they would react to it. It's something I'd like to test at some point, even if it doesn't make it into the voidwalker raws (this would require a lot of testing).
Post by: Pan on July 26, 2011, 09:52:43 pm
Post by: Carn on July 26, 2011, 11:20:34 pm
I can't for the life of me remember it's name now, but it was pretty good.
Post by: Carn on July 26, 2011, 11:23:02 pm
Just wondering if anyone else has been playing the second witcher game, and gotten to the siege of the dwarf fortress....
Human defender: "The enemy will overwhelm us!"
Dwarf: "Bloody hell they will, this is a DWARVEN fortress!"Spoiler (click to show/hide)
It's so beautiful. I shed a tear.
You just single-handedly sold the game to me. I've had The Witcher on my steam account for about a year, but haven't gotten around to playing it and didn't have it as a high priority. It's now next on my list.
That's from the second witcher game, which is basically everyone good about the first one but better. Also, everything that wasn't great, is now great. Seriously, it's in the patch notes.
The first witcher is pretty good, but the second is leagues beyond the first. Still, first is worth buying.
Post by: Pan on July 26, 2011, 11:31:54 pm
There was a mod in 40d that had sand people who did everything from stealth, including sieges - same one that had golems available for embark (just strong creatures that couldn't breed, basically)
I can't for the life of me remember it's name now, but it was pretty good.
It was Civilization Forge. I was actually going to mention them, but I was afraid Narhiril may be unfamiliar, so instead I mentioned the elves. The sand people were like humans, but sieged like elves.
Post by: narhiril on July 26, 2011, 11:35:55 pm
I thought the elves were stealth siegers?
I'm not entirely clear on the functionality of the [AMBUSHER] token - does it just cause ambushes or does it also cause sieges to be stealthy?
Post by: Pan on July 26, 2011, 11:51:47 pm
Post by: Carn on July 27, 2011, 12:15:52 am
There was a mod in 40d that had sand people who did everything from stealth, including sieges - same one that had golems available for embark (just strong creatures that couldn't breed, basically)
I can't for the life of me remember it's name now, but it was pretty good.
It was Civilization Forge. I was actually going to mention them, but I was afraid Narhiril may be unfamiliar, so instead I mentioned the elves. The sand people were like humans, but sieged like elves.
YES, thank you, that's right. I remember thinking it had some cool features. I liked the rare elemental crystals that could be woven into iron to make different metals for different purposes, earth for heavy armor, fire for flaming weapons, storm for powerful bolts, etc - or all together for elementium, a really powerful metal. I think it actually had a bit TOO many civilizations, it could get really cluttered with all the trade wagons and sieges and ambushes. Still, the alternative smithing options and golems were cool.
Nar has pretty much already done alternative metal options, and they are cool and better balanced with risk vs reward, I think. With the new legendary bone and leather options, that will carry risk vs reward into a new category, giving more alternatives for badass dwarf equipment. Also....leviathan skull thrones. I can dream.
I do have to admit that I've modded sabretooth tigers to be embark purchaseable though - they're expensive enough I don't feel it's overpowered, and they are by no means invulnerable. It's the only real option for embarking in hostile areas for early defense at the moment. They also don't seem to reproduce all that quickly. Even if gear and training for a couple of combat dwarves on embark was cost effective it would mean less dwarves to set up critical early industry and less time to do so, because you'd be bringing less supplies. The catch here being that some of the more hostile environments are also difficult to set up shop in due to extra work being needed to get water and agriculture going, and hunting and fishing being difficult if not impossible.
Still - Nar, you did say you had some kind of early defense option in mind after the update, that what you wanted to do with golems (or whatever) wasn't possible just now?
I only mention this because as it stands, the modded sabretooth fill a gap that could be taken up by more disposable embark options (something that wouldn't continue to add to the power and wealth of a fort by breeding) which would then leave sabres open as an upgrade to them (perhaps not individually, but with the ability to breed). Actually, having an early embark defense option with a short life span would further encourage this - it could buy valuable protection and therefore time, but it wouldn't be around for too long. Useful, but only as a stopgap towards another goal, or to supplement defenses if you can afford to have a caravan bring more. If they were heavy, that would significantly put stress on your trade as well (couldn't bring other needed supplies in bulk).
my $0.02
I do so wish the game had an option to force more undead areas. I'm not sure how it calculates a plague of undeath being present or not, I know the area has to be evil, but not all evil areas are plagued.
Anyway, this mod is great fun and continues to improve!
Post by: Carn on July 27, 2011, 12:29:37 am
Not that living creatures don't have bones, but it seems more appropriate to have a necromantic looking fortress is the midst of haunted forsaken wastes where the dead do not rest easy.
Post by: Pan on July 27, 2011, 12:55:15 am
Yes, it's the [AMBUSHER] tag in the entity file.
That gives them the ability to stealth siege.
I do have to admit that I've modded sabretooth tigers to be embark purchaseable though - they're expensive enough I don't feel it's overpowered, and they are by no means invulnerable. It's the only real option for embarking in hostile areas for early defense at the moment. They also don't seem to reproduce all that quickly. Even if gear and training for a couple of combat dwarves on embark was cost effective it would mean less dwarves to set up critical early industry and less time to do so, because you'd be bringing less supplies.
Aye, I'm guilty of making them embark purchasable. I mean, why not? It's easy to just make up a story on how the dwarves found and tamed the great beasts underground. And their very rare in caverns, so I decided to hell with that.
Hmm, just got a large goblin siege that is closely followed by a voidwalker annihilation force. The two large army is duking it out at the edges of the map, with 4 squads of gobs and 2 squads of trolls vs 3 squads of voidwalkers. This is going to be fun.
EDIT: The voidwalkers have routed the goblins, but lost almost half of one squad to the goblin crossbow squad. They charged to my entrance, and two were seriously injured by the ballista salvo. My less than experienced archers whittled down another one. Then I noticed they were heading for an unsealed side door that I had made to retrieve the loot faster. 4 voidwalkers including a champion rushed through before the drawbridge sealed, crushing two others. The other voidwalkers then took the longer, intended path. There was panic in the barracks area, but the recently trained lasher squad managed to hold off the voidwalkers till the axe squad put them down. The lasher squad was, however, cut down to the last man.
Then the battle went as intended - the sabre tooth tiger bomb detonated on the voidwalkers and distracted them as the military cut em down. Then just as I ordered the civilian burrows turned off... a bog troll siege sounded. 4 squads mounted on giant toads. I still remember the last time they did that - quarry bush leaves + toad meat roasts for everyone again!
Post by: Carn on July 27, 2011, 01:58:10 am
Maybe I should look into using quickfort to ease along the beginning of my forts, since I seem to spend the most time in the first year or two.
Post by: Pan on July 27, 2011, 02:23:11 am
1. Animal bombs (cages in a room at the side of the corridor sealed with a drawbridge stuffed with tigers linked to a lever. I know, very long.) are very good against hardhitting voidwalkers. They attack the tigers instead of the dwarves, who really cannot afford to get hit by a *glistening voidshard whip*. Be prepared to request for tigers and even dogs every year for this. Tigers > dogs because they take more punishment, therefore reducing cleanup. And it's just the Rule of Cool. Also, don't put them all in one cage. Only one dwarf will be assigned the Cage Large Creature job. I count the war tigers I have, then divide them up in the cages so multiple dwarves will load up the cages. It's faster this way, since this is such a crucial tactic against voidwalkers. Without it, my dwarves fall to pieces against voidwalkers. (since I havent managed to equip everyone with voidshard yet, and also cuz I'm challenging myself not to mine addy.)
2. Sieges like mine drain FPS like crazy. Conserve FPS by atomsmashing stone and clothes. This map of mine is a 3*3. My usual FPS was at 50 ish. The siege was at 10, then 20 when the goblins routed, then 15 when the bog trolls showed up. Then it was at 30 when the dust cleared (all the clothes and miasma etc)
3. Do all your fighting inside instead of meeting them in an open field. The main reason isn't archers, but clean up. Seriously, that stuff drains FPS and you DONT want a hauler walking to the edge of the map to pick up voidwalker shoe. Avoid the caverns unless you really need it. In this fort, I avoided it and this is the fastest fort I've ever had. (although this being the first 3*3 embark, and all the atom smashed stone probably helped. Still, caverns are a drain.)
4. Mid game fatigue was something I suffer from. The fort looks ugly, the migrants suck, the clever designs you thought up to mangle goblins isn't operational, and ambushes are lurking around every corner while your army is still in unskilled peasant and unforged metal bar form. I posted this in the Dwarf fort discussion forum once, and it's advised you just brave through it best you can.
5. During the animal bomb, or even in normal fights, sending 100% of your dwarves into the fray may not be a good idea. Lots of dwarves at once will kill voidwalkers fast, but their AoE death wails will usually affect them all. I usually leave one squad off the fight, so if the frontline fighters are all dizzy and shit from the death wails, these fresh fighters can go in and continue the fight. This is a risky approach, though, since voidwalkers need every dwarf you have to be attacking them so their not doing the same to your dwarves. I noticed this problem in a siege yesterday, all my dwarves dizzy and vulnerable, prompting me to train up a new squad for this reserve tactic. Since all the voidshard whips were lying around, I drafted some farmers into the late lasher squad.
My 3*3 embark has no flux, but lots of minerals. Iron, iovium (small amount) and orichalcum are present. Ferrovanadium is also present, but not in the layers I operate in. Tetrahedrite galena and splaherite is also present, but they goes without saying.
Post by: TehNoob on July 27, 2011, 02:29:20 am
This inspires me to go on DF now and gen a new fort to resist the voidwalking basterds!
Post by: Carn on July 27, 2011, 11:21:32 am
I posted this in the Dwarf fort discussion forum once, and it's advised you just brave through it best you can.
It saddens me that any suggestion about improving the core game is met like this. I understand the fanbase's love of the game and it's creator, but ANYTHING can be improved. DF certainly has massive issues with optimization and especially it's UI, being often non-intuitive , and the learning curve (most menus don't even use the same letters for the same furniture or building). If anyone saw the NY times interview with today recently ( called "the brilliance of dwarf fortress" ) The interviewer said the one time he was bitter was when he mentioned minecraft, and how it did so well financially and was so popular. Toady raged at it being due to a "problem with society". The problem being that people like to be able to play the game I suppose.
Anyway, enough about that, it can't be helped. Thank you for the tips about sieging! If I manage to stick with one fort long enough to see a big siege, they should certainly help the FPS.
Do you request whips from human caravans, or make them yourself? I know people are all excited about whips vs light armor because of the way they're written in the raws, just wondering what the best way to acquire them is.
I honestly think they're a little silly, I'd rather not see them carve people apart the way they do, but to still be effective if they could have some kind of pain or paralysis attached to them, that only works when they contact bare flesh.
That's kind of how whips actually work anyway, they're used to disarm, disable, and disorient. They are for making an opponent easier to beat, not cut them in half.
Post by: Pan on July 27, 2011, 01:20:17 pm
I get the whips from voidwalkers. Glistening voidshard whips are quite dangerous.
Post by: Carn on July 27, 2011, 02:06:58 pm
The mid game fatigue? Thats like, a player condition. I'm not sure what you mean. ???
I get the whips from voidwalkers. Glistening voidshard whips are quite dangerous.
I know whips are so dangerous because they apply their attack over a very tiny area, making them kind of like lasers.... Does being made out of voidshard help this? I thought blunt weapons were better if they were more dense, and voidshard wasn't that dense (so a silver whip would be really powerful?)
Post by: SalmonGod on July 27, 2011, 02:13:49 pm
It saddens me that any suggestion about improving the core game is met like this. I understand the fanbase's love of the game and it's creator, but ANYTHING can be improved. DF certainly has massive issues with optimization and especially it's UI, being often non-intuitive , and the learning curve (most menus don't even use the same letters for the same furniture or building). If anyone saw the NY times interview with today recently ( called "the brilliance of dwarf fortress" ) The interviewer said the one time he was bitter was when he mentioned minecraft, and how it did so well financially and was so popular. Toady raged at it being due to a "problem with society". The problem being that people like to be able to play the game I suppose.
This is because Toady is approaching the project with maximization of long-term development efficiency in mind. He intends to continue adding features and core functionality to the game for a long time. Considering he doesn't know what code added to the game later will look like, or what changes he will have to make to code that already exists to accomodate new features, it would increase the difficulty and time consumption of development greatly if he concerned himself with maintaining a clean UI and optimized performance. Instead, he has an outline of all the core functionality he wants in the game, and will begin optimizing after all of that stuff has been implemented.
You might argue that he subsists on donations from people who are currently playing the game and thus it would be wise to maintain a good level of playability. That is a perfectly valid argument. It's also a matter of balance between priorities that is entirely personal judgment in Toady's hands. We have seen optimization in recent releases, so he is at least trying to ensure that his game remains playable throughout development. He's just not bothering with keeping it maximumly convenient at all times.
Post by: Pan on July 27, 2011, 09:24:34 pm
The mid game fatigue? Thats like, a player condition. I'm not sure what you mean. ???
I get the whips from voidwalkers. Glistening voidshard whips are quite dangerous.
I know whips are so dangerous because they apply their attack over a very tiny area, making them kind of like lasers.... Does being made out of voidshard help this? I thought blunt weapons were better if they were more dense, and voidshard wasn't that dense (so a silver whip would be really powerful?)
I just assumed voidshard was sharper. Whips deal goring damage, right? So the sharper the better?
Post by: thatkid on July 27, 2011, 09:29:16 pm
Only two damage types: Blunt and Edge.The mid game fatigue? Thats like, a player condition. I'm not sure what you mean. ???
I get the whips from voidwalkers. Glistening voidshard whips are quite dangerous.
I know whips are so dangerous because they apply their attack over a very tiny area, making them kind of like lasers.... Does being made out of voidshard help this? I thought blunt weapons were better if they were more dense, and voidshard wasn't that dense (so a silver whip would be really powerful?)
I just assumed voidshard was sharper. Whips deal goring damage, right? So the sharper the better?
Last I checked whips were blunt, though scourges are the real killer.
Post by: Teach on July 27, 2011, 09:51:53 pm
Post by: Putnam on July 27, 2011, 09:53:29 pm
Post by: narhiril on July 27, 2011, 10:09:32 pm
That gives them the ability to stealth siege.
Thank you, I'll play around with that for the voidwalkers.
Aye, I'm guilty of making them embark purchasable. I mean, why not? It's easy to just make up a story on how the dwarves found and tamed the great beasts underground. And their very rare in caverns, so I decided to hell with that.
Hmm, just got a large goblin siege that is closely followed by a voidwalker annihilation force. The two large army is duking it out at the edges of the map, with 4 squads of gobs and 2 squads of trolls vs 3 squads of voidwalkers. This is going to be fun.
WAIT wait wait wait... What? You got those damn things to fight each other? I've been trying to get them to do that for five versions now. Did you add the [AMBUSHER] tag to the voidwalkers?
Yeah, a voidshard scourge should be awesome in every sense of the word.
There is a pseudo "legendary" whip variant that is even better. I won't tell you what it is though, just hope you get lucky with weapons concepts. :)
My laptop decided today was the day to roll over and die, so I've been frantically running around town today trying to salvage the hard drive. Thankfully, everything is ok, and I saved all of the work I'd done over the last few weeks. I'm back with a new rig, built to simulate some dwarves.
Post by: Pan on July 27, 2011, 11:23:40 pm
WAIT wait wait wait... What? You got those damn things to fight each other? I've been trying to get them to do that for five versions now. Did you add the [AMBUSHER] tag to the voidwalkers?
Nope. Everything is LoFR vanilla. I did minor things like tweaking out many clothes to save FPS (no more socks).
Although that was only the goblins the voidwalkers fought. The voidwalkers are perfectly at peace with the lizard folk. Not sure about the bog trolls, since the voidwalkers were already dead when them trolls showed up.
Post by: Palpatine on July 27, 2011, 11:42:08 pm
Post by: narhiril on July 27, 2011, 11:58:41 pm
Hello, just a suggestion for helping to make the ritual tree differentiated from tech. One of the things you could do is offer the ability to summon servants from various deities as one of the ritual branches. A successful ritual for this purpose would make a caged, tame, non-breedable special being appear.
Creatures cannot be created, destroyed, or even involved in custom reactions. It would be fun, but it can't be done, unfortunately.
Post by: Carn on July 28, 2011, 01:48:16 am
Think of it as an excuse to upgrade?
Post by: narhiril on July 29, 2011, 12:10:55 am
As someone who recently lost their hard drive I am glad to hear the death of the laptop didn't wipe out your work on the next version!
Think of it as an excuse to upgrade?
"Upgrade" is an understatement. I went state of the art and converted the old one to an external hard drive. I'm running with over a terrabyte of free memory now, with 8G ram and a hardcore dedicated gfx card on a laptop. The thing is monstrous - it's bigger than the bag I used for my last computer.
Someday in a few years I'll look back on this post with my 300T rig and go "lol terrabyte nub," but for now I'm on the bleeding edge.
Now lets see if it can handle 200 dwarves >.>
Post by: Carn on July 29, 2011, 12:51:11 am
As someone who recently lost their hard drive I am glad to hear the death of the laptop didn't wipe out your work on the next version!
Think of it as an excuse to upgrade?
"Upgrade" is an understatement. I went state of the art and converted the old one to an external hard drive. I'm running with over a terrabyte of free memory now, with 8G ram and a hardcore dedicated gfx card on a laptop. The thing is monstrous - it's bigger than the bag I used for my last computer.
Someday in a few years I'll look back on this post with my 300T rig and go "lol terrabyte nub," but for now I'm on the bleeding edge.
Now lets see if it can handle 200 dwarves >.>
It slays me that you're only sort of joking about not being sure if it can handle that =P
Post by: Eldrick Tobin on July 29, 2011, 07:35:19 am
As someone who recently lost their hard drive I am glad to hear the death of the laptop didn't wipe out your work on the next version!
Think of it as an excuse to upgrade?
"Upgrade" is an understatement. I went state of the art and converted the old one to an external hard drive. I'm running with over a terrabyte of free memory now, with 8G ram and a hardcore dedicated gfx card on a laptop. The thing is monstrous - it's bigger than the bag I used for my last computer.
Someday in a few years I'll look back on this post with my 300T rig and go "lol terrabyte nub," but for now I'm on the bleeding edge.
Now lets see if it can handle 200 dwarves >.>
It slays me that you're only sort of joking about not being sure if it can handle that =P
After you try 200 dwarves, try 10K of History. I can't do that on my gaming rig(Vista 64), but my webserver(2008 Std SP2) can often get that far.
Comments on the Mod: Everything I read about it sends chills down my spine ^^; Voidshard -just how the words hit my brain- sounds like the kinda thing where you buy a KITCHEN KNIFE OF IT and let some other schmoo try it out while you're behind thick walls... 'just in case'
Post by: The Master on July 29, 2011, 09:55:56 am
Post by: Pan on July 29, 2011, 11:09:49 am
Anyway:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Of course, that could make them voidwalkers quite powerful, and they already are. And would stray a little far from the game. But here's just my little idea anyway.
Post by: SirAaronIII on July 29, 2011, 11:35:46 am
Post by: thatkid on July 29, 2011, 12:23:31 pm
Do the Elcar REPLACE dwarves? I'm asking this because I haven't seen dwarves at all with this mod, but the elcar do share the same creature description.What is an Elcar? This Mod does not add anything of that sort.
Post by: narhiril on July 29, 2011, 07:25:04 pm
Nar, I understand you probably wouldn't want to stray too far from the vanilla game, but today I had a thought while reading the posts about the scourge/whips overpowered-ness.
Anyway:Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Of course, that could make them voidwalkers quite powerful, and they already are. And would stray a little far from the game. But here's just my little idea anyway.
I'll consider this, but first I need to more thoroughly test them with stealth sieges. Giving them two upgrades in one version is just mean. :)
I can't wait for the army arc. I have big plans for these guys.
Do the Elcar REPLACE dwarves? I'm asking this because I haven't seen dwarves at all with this mod, but the elcar do share the same creature description.What is an Elcar? This Mod does not add anything of that sort.
I am equally confused. The meowkin, nephilim, lizardmen, bog trolls, voidwalkers, and (underground) moroii are the races associated with this mod.
In other news, though, the second set of altar rituals is almost finalized.
---
Lesser Ritual of Power
Consumes three totems - because nothing shows your devotion to conquest better than your enemy's head made into a trinket. This ritual can yield substantial quantities of crossbow ammunition and bloodstone gems, but also carries the risk of disfavor.
Greater Ritual of Power
Consumes eight totems. The risk of disfavor for this reaction is slightly lower (though the disfavor itself is more dangerous), and potential rewards are more lucrative. Most of these rewards also come in the form of crossbow ammunition, some of unusual and powerful materials including stronger bone and metal. There are also a number of unique rewards from this ritual, which you'll have to discover for yourselves.
EDIT: Another bit of exciting news - I've gotten a dummy (test) reaction to produce potable water. This means that using the ritual tech tree as a water source is now an option. Dwarves can drink or use the water right out of the bucket. The only quirk is that if you wish to use the water as a fluid (i.e. for a pond), you must assign a viable water source activity zone before dwarves will use the buckets from the ritual to fill it (the game will not recognize an altar as an acceptable water source, so another one must be assigned for the job to occur, even though that particular source does not have to be used- or even accessible - the dwarves can then use the ritual buckets as long as this other water source exists).
Post by: Palpatine on July 30, 2011, 02:40:38 am
Post by: TehNoob on July 30, 2011, 03:26:30 am
Post by: narhiril on July 30, 2011, 10:35:27 am
Any chance for the ritual tech tree to incoprate miraculous healings? Urist McHouse can sometimes be great, but even when he's on, he's still got limits. And when he's off, it's like you may as well not even have a hospital at all.
This is something I've wanted to do for a long time, but there currently isn't a way to do it.
... For some obscure reason, this gave me an idea for a totally unrelated (but very cool) mechanical advancement. It's really been irritating me lately that fish keep running out, so I aim to do something about that in the way of a new building - probably another little something for tier three.
Post by: Lycus on July 30, 2011, 03:37:57 pm
Post by: Putnam on July 30, 2011, 04:44:10 pm
Does this mod enhance adventure mode in any way?
You can play as nephilim, who can fly.
So kind of.
Post by: TwilightWalker on July 31, 2011, 03:17:33 am
Does this mod enhance adventure mode in any way?
You can play as nephilim, who can fly.
So kind of.
Also, if your fort makes some of those experimental weapons out of the new metals, you can use them for all sorts of badassery.
Post by: The Master on July 31, 2011, 08:25:30 am
Do the Elcar REPLACE dwarves? I'm asking this because I haven't seen dwarves at all with this mod, but the elcar do share the same creature description.What is an Elcar? This Mod does not add anything of that sort.
Quote
I am equally confused. The meowkin, nephilim, lizardmen, bog trolls, voidwalkers, and (underground) moroii are the races associated with this mod.Bah, who knows! I have so many mods installed! sorry!
Post by: Carn on August 01, 2011, 01:07:42 am
You are my hero. I guess if it can't be put in ponds, forts relying on it as a source of water will simply need a lot of buckets.
Post by: narhiril on August 01, 2011, 01:44:24 am
Nar, the created water can be used for everything but filling ponds? So the essential things (drinking, giving water to wounded, washing wounds and doctor's hands) all work with it?
You are my hero. I guess if it can't be put in ponds, forts relying on it as a source of water will simply need a lot of buckets.
You CAN put it in ponds, but you need to have another water source set in order to do so (the pond fill job requires a defined water source activity zone, and the game will not recognize an altar as a viable water source). Once you've assigned a water source, however, the dwarves can use the altar's buckets to fill the pond. The water source itself doesn't even have to be accessible, it just has to exist for the labor to trigger.
But yes, apart from that minor pond anomaly (which you can work around), it functions the same as if you pulled it from a well or stream. That means drinking, washing, casts, etc. I need to double check this, but it seemed to work just fine in the brief period I was able to spend today testing it. I was able to directly observe drinking and pond filling - I am assuming the other uses will be fine because I can't think of any logical reason why they wouldn't. If a problem somehow slips through the cracks (which I doubt), I will, of course, get it fixed as soon as possible.
I'm getting close to finalized release notes. After some (probably brief) cleanup and barring any unforeseen difficulties, it'll be ready to play within a week or two.
I don't normally post my raws, but if anyone is curious, this is the reaction code that did the trick. It took me a couple of guesses to get it right.
Spoiler: reaction_ritual_t1 (click to show/hide)
Post by: Trapezohedron on August 01, 2011, 03:35:27 am
I'm considering about downloading this, as I'm kinda bored and frustrated about modding my DF game. What's a quick rundown of the features, like how would you rate this mod's difficulty?
Post by: Putnam on August 01, 2011, 03:58:31 am
Hey, how about adding some kind of soul to soulgem conversions, and reactions that require soulgems?
I'm considering about downloading this, as I'm kinda bored and frustrated about modding my DF game. What's a quick rundown of the features, like how would you rate this mod's difficulty?
It's more difficult than vanilla, but far more rewarding.
Features include: many new plants, new animals, new megabeasts, a couple new, very Fun civilizations, and a tech tree!
That's not nearly an exhaustive list.
Post by: Pan on August 01, 2011, 08:35:31 am
The main feature of the mod that separates it from many other mods is how it adds creative ideas and reactions. You have a certain type of booze to burn as bio weapon. You have explosive creatures to unleash on your enemies. You have the technology tree that expands the gameplay by providing stronger materials for armors, colored high quality crystals for high quality furniture and colorful megaprojects (next version), advanced mechanics that trains the skills of various professions, and the ability to produce advanced weaponry more efficiently.
So in a nut shell, the mod has difficult combat (not as extreme as, say, fortress defense. But enough to challenge the average DF player.) and a technology tree that adds to the experience by enhancing different fields.
EDIT: Also, could one of the rituals give uncut gems or anything? Gem cutters need jobs when the map's all mined out and sand is limited...
Post by: Putnam on August 01, 2011, 03:34:56 pm
sand is limited...
That's a paradox if I've ever seen one!
Post by: narhiril on August 01, 2011, 04:05:00 pm
The enemies in the mod are quite challenging, and are balanced in quite an interesting way. Like how each race plays a certain 'role'. Lizardmen are thieves, and have a 'sapper' caste to pull unguarded levers and open cages. Bog trolls are muscles who smash through doors and are all raw power. Vanilla gobbos are the in between guys, what with their average fighting skills and pet trolls. Voidwalkers are just like your dwarves - powerful soldiers with good quality armor and weapons (they are slightly better, such as feeling no pain and releasing a stunning death wail upon death).
The main feature of the mod that separates it from many other mods is how it adds creative ideas and reactions. You have a certain type of booze to burn as bio weapon. You have explosive creatures to unleash on your enemies. You have the technology tree that expands the gameplay by providing stronger materials for armors, colored high quality crystals for high quality furniture and colorful megaprojects (next version), advanced mechanics that trains the skills of various professions, and the ability to produce advanced weaponry more efficiently.
So in a nut shell, the mod has difficult combat (not as extreme as, say, fortress defense. But enough to challenge the average DF player.) and a technology tree that adds to the experience by enhancing different fields.
EDIT: Also, could one of the rituals give uncut gems or anything? Gem cutters need jobs when the map's all mined out and sand is limited...
Most of the currently written rituals have an uncut gem or two as a possible byproduct. Also, the crystal growth tank (which is done and ready for 0.14a) heavily employs the gem cutting labor. I am always looking into exploiting labors that exhaust their usefulness at some point. Fishing is next - I have a somewhat elaborate plan for making that work. Fishing will get a ritual/tech tree crossover building that *might* just make it into 0.14a.
Post by: Sirdrake on August 01, 2011, 04:27:09 pm
And would like to ask a question does this mod add the greater demon of wrath
Post by: Sirdrake on August 01, 2011, 04:33:09 pm
Post by: Sirdrake on August 01, 2011, 05:05:11 pm
Is this a glitch or just something else
EDIT just lookd at unit list and it says there are caged animals but they dont show up on trade list
Post by: Palpatine on August 01, 2011, 05:45:33 pm
got a caravan from the nephilim and they didnt bring anything with them at all :( ???
Is this a glitch or just something else
EDIT just lookd at unit list and it says there are caged animals but they dont show up on trade list
Sirdrake, the Nephilim can't trade because they are flying creatures, and in the current DF version fliers can't be enabled to allow trading.
Post by: Sirdrake on August 01, 2011, 07:07:33 pm
got a caravan from the nephilim and they didnt bring anything with them at all :( ???
Is this a glitch or just something else
EDIT just lookd at unit list and it says there are caged animals but they dont show up on trade list
Sirdrake, the Nephilim can't trade because they are flying creatures, and in the current DF version fliers can't be enabled to allow trading.
So why did they come
Post by: Pan on August 01, 2011, 08:53:08 pm
sand is limited...
That's a paradox if I've ever seen one!
Well, sand is unlimited when your in a place with at least one sand tile. What I meant was when you have no sand tiles at all, and need to import all the sand from caravans. That's when it's 'limited'.
got a caravan from the nephilim and they didnt bring anything with them at all :( ???
Is this a glitch or just something else
EDIT just lookd at unit list and it says there are caged animals but they dont show up on trade list
Sirdrake, the Nephilim can't trade because they are flying creatures, and in the current DF version fliers can't be enabled to allow trading.
So why did they come
Cuz they aren't there to trade. Their there to 'rest' between their own trade routes. If that annoys you, you could drown the merchants (who arrive before the animals) in the depot. The pack animals will just flee after that.
But technically speaking, it's cuz what Palphatine said. Narhiril is just not willing to remove them, since this probably adds variety.
They make free stuff sometimes when their pack mules die from heights or from ambushes. Free steel. Be sure to use DFhack to hack some magma on those tiles and destroy all those annoying clothes and other stuff that are not worth the time being hauled inside.
Post by: astianax on August 02, 2011, 07:13:34 am
my previous fort crumbled when the voidwalkers came in force...with whips. nothing survived
the current one is an ocean embark, i figured i'd use an enclosed beach area as my entrance...only one small path non flying/swimming enemies can come through. all was good until the lizardman seige, where they just swam straight up to my front door (and promptly got slaughtered by my military and guard war everythings). something i found interesting, and not sure if you managed to do this on purpose or not, was the last surviving lizardman didn't flee like goblin seigers do. i mean, he ran away, yeah. but straight into the ocean, then while i watched, circled back around, and tried a one lizard assault from a different angle, and partially concealed by ocean mist. again, he died, but it's the thought that counts.
also, the current fort has no orichalcum ore, and the dwarf civ doesn't seem to have heard of it, either. luckily, the humans have access and kindly donated a bar with their first caravan. after they and the nephilim killed each other while locked in the depot after their guards weapons and armor were stripped away. unarmed, the nephilim sure love to resort to biting and shaking.
and once, i even got the nephilim to trade. the one time they decided to head down the same ramps the packbeasts had to use, instead of flying straight in. i was pretty shocked, actually
Post by: TehNoob on August 02, 2011, 08:47:57 am
Post by: narhiril on August 02, 2011, 10:50:59 am
Not to put any pressure, but when will the next version be released?
That's fair. I have two more things to write and test - tier 2 ritual framework and two other new buildings (one for fishing, one for manufacturing temple components). If everything goes smoothly and my real-life schedule stays constant, I anticipate it being done in no more than two weeks, and possibly as early as next week.
After that, if any bug fixes are necessary, those will be released as soon as possible - usually within a day or two of being reported.
Post by: Teneb on August 03, 2011, 06:49:41 pm
Post by: narhiril on August 03, 2011, 07:12:35 pm
Narhiril, would you mind if I used the weapons featured in your mod (an excellent and original one, I might add) in my own mod? My time has been rather short lately, and I might not be able to add as I would otherwise. Proper credit will be given, obviously.
It's fine with me, but you'll probably need to do some work on entities or custom reactions to make them available, as most of them are exclusive to the weapons concept laboratory (which is pretty deeply entangled in the tech tree raws).
Post by: Teneb on August 03, 2011, 07:20:12 pm
Narhiril, would you mind if I used the weapons featured in your mod (an excellent and original one, I might add) in my own mod? My time has been rather short lately, and I might not be able to add as I would otherwise. Proper credit will be given, obviously.
It's fine with me, but you'll probably need to do some work on entities or custom reactions to make them available, as most of them are exclusive to the weapons concept laboratory (which is pretty deeply entangled in the tech tree raws).
Not a problem, thank you
Post by: Merijeek on August 03, 2011, 10:27:03 pm
Post by: narhiril on August 03, 2011, 11:53:12 pm
Allright, what's the process to actually making use of my slab showing the design of a super new and cool javelin thrower? I can't build an advanced metal caster without making it...
It is a random product of the "document alchemical research" reaction.
If you have any training workshops running, they will kick out slabs of accreditation for the documentation reaction. The "document alchemical research" reaction gets rid of these slabs and also has a chance to produce different slabs for other advances. The slab required for the advanced metal caster is one of these chance products.
The best way to unlock it is to have one or more training workshops running smoothly, then to dedicate an alchemy lab to "document alchemical research" on repeat. Check back periodically to see if they've got any new advances for you. As I recall, the advanced metal caster advancement is one of the more common of the possible ones.
Post by: Captain Insano on August 04, 2011, 03:12:41 am
EDIT: I offered them about 2000 dwarfbucks worth of stuff, and I dumped what I thought was an appropriate amount from their animals. I hope they don't get pissed off at me.
DOUBLEDIT: It seems that I can't release the TAME animals that I dumped off of them either. Every time I try it spams me with a "Cannot release large animal. Needs empty cage." Anyone know what this is about?
Post by: astianax on August 04, 2011, 04:03:34 am
i normally just steal the weapons/armor of the guards (armor for melting down) and leave 'em be. occasionally lock 'em in the depot with humans or elves, so both races will decide to slaughter each other and give me more to cook
as for the animals, as long as the merchant that owned them is still on the map, they belong to him, even if you stole 'em. once he leaves, they should become yours. if you look at the unit list, they'll still be listed as merchant related units
Post by: The Master on August 04, 2011, 06:19:27 am
I'm not sure if this has been brought up yet, but I found a bug. I had three Nephilim traders come at the end of summer, so I brought out my goods and all that good stuff, and I noticed that the Yak they brought hadn't come inside the fort, and they left it behind. Then i noticed that both the Yak and the Donkey they had still had all of their goods on it and that nothing was actually in the depot to trade. Is this just an error somehow on my part?I've had similar problems. 'cept they won't leave if you offer them ANYTHING. they're like mercs!
EDIT: I offered them about 2000 dwarfbucks worth of stuff, and I dumped what I thought was an appropriate amount from their animals. I hope they don't get pissed off at me.
DOUBLEDIT: It seems that I can't release the TAME animals that I dumped off of them either. Every time I try it spams me with a "Cannot release large animal. Needs empty cage." Anyone know what this is about?
Post by: TehNoob on August 04, 2011, 06:59:05 am
Post by: astianax on August 04, 2011, 07:27:52 am
as is, i use them to find ways fliers can get into my fort while i'm sealing it off. much nicer that they show me before a titan, nightwing, or harpy pack does...
Post by: Pan on August 04, 2011, 09:51:53 am
I'll get to using DFHack one of these days to create magma and incinerate those pack yak and horse corpses piled with all the unmeltable stuff.
Post by: Merijeek on August 04, 2011, 01:39:38 pm
Allright, what's the process to actually making use of my slab showing the design of a super new and cool javelin thrower? I can't build an advanced metal caster without making it...
It is a random product of the "document alchemical research" reaction.
If you have any training workshops running, they will kick out slabs of accreditation for the documentation reaction. The "document alchemical research" reaction gets rid of these slabs and also has a chance to produce different slabs for other advances. The slab required for the advanced metal caster is one of these chance products.
The best way to unlock it is to have one or more training workshops running smoothly, then to dedicate an alchemy lab to "document alchemical research" on repeat. Check back periodically to see if they've got any new advances for you. As I recall, the advanced metal caster advancement is one of the more common of the possible ones.
Sorry, I wasn't clear. I've got loads of that certificate/slab/whatever.
What do I stick it in to actually PRODUCE the thing so that I can then build the advanced metal caster?
Post by: thatkid on August 04, 2011, 01:41:31 pm
Alchemist LabAllright, what's the process to actually making use of my slab showing the design of a super new and cool javelin thrower? I can't build an advanced metal caster without making it...
It is a random product of the "document alchemical research" reaction.
If you have any training workshops running, they will kick out slabs of accreditation for the documentation reaction. The "document alchemical research" reaction gets rid of these slabs and also has a chance to produce different slabs for other advances. The slab required for the advanced metal caster is one of these chance products.
The best way to unlock it is to have one or more training workshops running smoothly, then to dedicate an alchemy lab to "document alchemical research" on repeat. Check back periodically to see if they've got any new advances for you. As I recall, the advanced metal caster advancement is one of the more common of the possible ones.
Sorry, I wasn't clear. I've got loads of that certificate/slab/whatever.
What do I stick it in to actually PRODUCE the thing so that I can then build the advanced metal caster?
Post by: Merijeek on August 04, 2011, 02:49:55 pm
Don't even have those in red!
Post by: astianax on August 04, 2011, 03:15:30 pm
Post by: Putnam on August 04, 2011, 03:48:49 pm
document alchemical research.
That's the one.
Post by: astianax on August 04, 2011, 08:13:35 pm
kinda sucks, 'cause i was excited when i saw that the now extinct dwarves started out with access to war giant desert scorpions...first i've seen that since i made them non exotic and war trainable, months ago. good news is, nothing in error logs, so i got the mishmash all working together, though
Post by: Carn on August 05, 2011, 01:57:43 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I just encountered some playing a desert fort, they seem fairly rare and nonthreatening. Went down from one dwarf using bone/leather armor and wood weapons in melee. The AI for it also seemed to be similar to a rhesus. They seem to slowly move about, getting closer and closer to the fort, but flee when they see actual dwarves rather than attack. Is this intended? This is my first time seeing them. Looking at their description, they sound terrifying, and their performance and fleeing don't quite match that. Am I simply prejudiced because they're ugly, and they are simply misunderstood? Or perhaps they're supposed to be more frightening and my heroic half naked dwarf was really lucky in combat?
They have fantastic descriptions and interesting abilities (though it didn't save them) and I'd love to see more interesting additions like that, to make the harsh and scary parts of the world seem a bit more harsh and scary.
I know the tech tree is priority one for now, just wondered about people's experiences.
Post by: Carn on August 05, 2011, 02:00:23 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Pan on August 05, 2011, 09:42:05 am
The harsh and scary thing sounds good to me too. The 'past civilizations' thing that LFR talks about has potential for some interesting creatures.
And the whole thing with kittens kicking all that ass... Why? Aren't they smaller and all that? Maybe reducing their litter size or something would help?
Post by: narhiril on August 05, 2011, 12:41:49 pm
So, Narhiril, the release next week is on Monday, or a little later than that?
The harsh and scary thing sounds good to me too. The 'past civilizations' thing that LFR talks about has potential for some interesting creatures.
And the whole thing with kittens kicking all that ass... Why? Aren't they smaller and all that? Maybe reducing their litter size or something would help?
Mmmm... Monday might be a bit early for me, since I'm travelling most of Saturday and Sunday. Tuesday or Wednesday is more likely, unless something goes horribly wrong with these last few raws (I don't anticipate this).
Ugh, those damn kittens. I'll be testing a few fixes for them over the next day or two.
Post by: Carn on August 05, 2011, 12:58:38 pm
The harsh and scary thing sounds good to me too. The 'past civilizations' thing that LFR talks about has potential for some interesting creatures.
You have a good point there! Plus, Narhiril mentioned new types of bone/leather etc for nasty beasties, too. So, scary monsters, and chairs made out of scary monsters! Everyone wins.
Post by: astianax on August 05, 2011, 02:02:53 pm
interesting things of note: they very frequently give birth to triplets. three or four seem to be able to overwhelm and kill a bog troll thief. like gremlins, gorlaks, and animal men, if they're brought to your map already tame, they have names. and all their kids will be named, even if the parents weren't (mind you, taming them requires modding their raws). and, like the children of gremlins and gorlaks, their kids will be targeted by snatchers, if they're closer than your dwarven children. much nicer to lose one of those than a dwarf kid. or, as usually happens, have the parents make a meal of the would-be snatcher
also, on their cloud/syndrome attack, it's really great. i even pointed it out in another thread to someone who was looking to make something really similar. hope you don't mind, narhiril
and, on those damned kittens. i don't mind it at all. it actually sorta fits, in a way. real cats are all nice, cute and fluffy one instant, and tearing things to shreds the next. so, a race of them, when something pisses them off enough to get the claws out...it ain't gonna be pretty. the previous fort (one mentioned above) had the humans at war with the meowkin, and they were both pretty much at a draw. guess that other world, they just got lucky with their bit of warmongery. normally, they're just fine. the cute, cuddly traders you expect
Post by: Carn on August 05, 2011, 07:08:01 pm
Perhaps this will be added to DF one day.
Post by: narhiril on August 05, 2011, 11:12:10 pm
If only there was a way to exert more control on the numbers and type of animals / non civ units spawned on a map. Then there could be a sort of progression for wildlife (and undead, semi-megabeasts, tribals, wandering monsters, etc) so that new forts wouldn't have to contend with 10 giant skeletal eagles, but a later well established fort could still be confronted by a similar threat.
Perhaps this will be added to DF one day.
Rest assured that I'm in for the long haul. As long as there's a new version of DF on the horizon, expect a new version of LFR to be close behind.
I should warn you all, however, that I have some health problems that will likely warrant a pretty invasive operation within a year or two. I will likely be out of commission (just for a few weeks or so) when that happens. I will, of course, give notice when that time comes.
Post by: narhiril on August 06, 2011, 01:43:34 am
Spoiler: Patch notes for 0.14a (click to show/hide)
This is pretty close to finalized. The next few days will be spent travelling and testing before a release on Tuesday or Wednesday.
Post by: Carn on August 06, 2011, 01:51:08 am
This is pretty close to finalized. The next few days will be spent travelling and testing before a release on Tuesday or Wednesday.
Exciting!
Also, I know you said it wasn't for some time in the future, but good luck on whatever that operation is. As someone that's been in hospitals a couple times before, I know it can be an unpleasant experience.
Post by: Carn on August 06, 2011, 01:52:04 am
Post by: narhiril on August 06, 2011, 02:31:25 am
Also, I just noticed you mentioned me in the manual. I'm famous!
I try to keep a running tab of people whose continued feedback has substantially helped improve the mod. For anyone else, if you feel like you have been overlooked, please go ahead and say something. As they say, the squeaky elf gets the axe... Or something like that.
This is pretty close to finalized. The next few days will be spent travelling and testing before a release on Tuesday or Wednesday.
Exciting!
Also, I know you said it wasn't for some time in the future, but good luck on whatever that operation is. As someone that's been in hospitals a couple times before, I know it can be an unpleasant experience.
I sincerely appreciate that.
Also, arejust something to sell?Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I apologize, I seem to have overlooked that post. They can be sold or used as a fairly decent blunt weapon.
so, my latest test fort, making sure some of my own mods worked, as well as mixing two other full mods with lfr worked fine (one only introduced the drow and all their related stuff, the other was a huge one, direforged) and discovered that my civ was both at war with the meowkin and extinct. went and checked in legends...those little kittens are vicious when they get all warmongery! they've taken out my dwarf civ, the local drow civ, *and* one of the local human civs. apparently still on trading terms with the other two humans, the neph, and the rest of the not immediately aggro groups in their vicinity
kinda sucks, 'cause i was excited when i saw that the now extinct dwarves started out with access to war giant desert scorpions...first i've seen that since i made them non exotic and war trainable, months ago. good news is, nothing in error logs, so i got the mishmash all working together, though
A slight tweak to the Meowkin is coming for 0.14a, which seems to partially alleviate the frequency and severity of that sort of thing.
--
Going to bed, I've got a long day of driving tomorrow. I'll get on to check and respond when I get to the hotel.
Post by: Putnam on August 06, 2011, 11:51:52 pm
Post by: narhiril on August 07, 2011, 12:03:13 am
I'd like to ask permission to use some of your weapons; not many, I may add, but a few. They'll probably be renamed, but most of them will be about the same, and you'll get more credit than you already have in the mod :3
Heh, no problem.
Got some raws finished up today for a few last-minute additions, including a new building. I've been having a little bit of trouble getting it to do exactly what I want it to do, but I have a working alternative that will probably have to suffice.
In case you're curious, I was trying to get a reaction to produce a butcherable corpse, but this is causing all sorts of problems, so I will likely need to simply make it produce the meat directly. Another day of driving and some last minute testing to clean up any glaringly obvious problems, and this one will roll out on schedule - certainly by Wednesday, but it's looking more and more likely that I can get it wrapped up for Tuesday. Tonight was mostly combing through some minor issues - In summary, a bit of me being dumb and assigning the same hotkey to two different reactions at the altar, tweaking workshop appearances, playing around with percent chances, a few last-minute easter eggs, and typing up a pretty decent new lore file. Oh yeah, and crashing my modified test copy with the CORPSE token.
I really don't know why we even have that token. It doesn't work in reagent lines and it crashes the game in product lines. [/rant]
Post by: Pan on August 07, 2011, 12:45:42 pm
Also, I just noticed you mentioned me in the manual. I'm famous!
I try to keep a running tab of people whose continued feedback has substantially helped improve the mod. For anyone else, if you feel like you have been overlooked, please go ahead and say something. As they say, the squeaky elf gets the axe... Or something like that.
Hehe, I was reading the manual the other day when I was on holiday at an internet-less hotel and was surprised to see my name there.
Anyway, these past few days saw an end to my fortress. Voidwalkers ::). I was running out of sabre tooth tigers, and I had challenged myself to not use adamantine so as to fully experience fighting a technologically superior opponent. Suffice to say, the experience did not end as well as I had hoped. Those earlier battles where I had triumphed against voidwalkers were mostly due to the sabre tooth tigers distracting them while my poorly equipped soldiers tried their best to hack them apart. As the voidwalker sieges got larger and piled up, I lost the war of attrition. Had a hell of a last stand, though, with the remaining soldiers (clad in voidshard and all a weapon lord/master) patched up in time for another siege and most civs issued crossbows or whips against a 50-ish something voidwalker siege. Lost 40 something guys and abandoned.
Was hesitant to start new fort, so I've been patiently *twitch* waiting for the update for the past 3 *twitch* days.
Gave adventurer mode a try, and it was fun for a while when i rolled up demigods and killing people by maiming their faces while their unconscious.
Post by: narhiril on August 07, 2011, 05:04:30 pm
Also, I just noticed you mentioned me in the manual. I'm famous!
I try to keep a running tab of people whose continued feedback has substantially helped improve the mod. For anyone else, if you feel like you have been overlooked, please go ahead and say something. As they say, the squeaky elf gets the axe... Or something like that.
Hehe, I was reading the manual the other day when I was on holiday at an internet-less hotel and was surprised to see my name there.
Anyway, these past few days saw an end to my fortress. Voidwalkers ::). I was running out of sabre tooth tigers, and I had challenged myself to not use adamantine so as to fully experience fighting a technologically superior opponent. Suffice to say, the experience did not end as well as I had hoped. Those earlier battles where I had triumphed against voidwalkers were mostly due to the sabre tooth tigers distracting them while my poorly equipped soldiers tried their best to hack them apart. As the voidwalker sieges got larger and piled up, I lost the war of attrition. Had a hell of a last stand, though, with the remaining soldiers (clad in voidshard and all a weapon lord/master) patched up in time for another siege and most civs issued crossbows or whips against a 50-ish something voidwalker siege. Lost 40 something guys and abandoned.
Was hesitant to start new fort, so I've been patiently *twitch* waiting for the update for the past 3 *twitch* days.
Gave adventurer mode a try, and it was fun for a while when i rolled up demigods and killing people by maiming their faces while their unconscious.
It's coming on Tuesday, most likely. I've only run into a few things so far that need any revision.
Also, go ahead and break out the adamantine. The voidwalkers are MUCH more dangerous in this coming version, and they'll be quite a challenge even with exceptional gear. As the ritual tree develops, I might be able to buff them even more. I stated very early in development that I don't ever plan to make a metal of equivalent or superior quality to adamantine, and I haven't changed my mind about that, but there are other things I can tweak on both sides of the battlefield. This next version of DF is going to make some revolutionary things possible.
Post by: Pan on August 07, 2011, 07:51:49 pm
(...) I don't ever plan to make a metal of equivalent or superior quality to adamantine, and I haven't changed my mind about that
So hadrine does not count as a 'metal', then? And by the way, just making sure, one hadrine reactive chest plate can be worn with a mail shirt, right? Cuz I don't want to make a whole bunch of hadrine reactive chest plates + adamantine mail shirts, only to discover the name was misleading me.
Post by: narhiril on August 07, 2011, 08:28:46 pm
(...) I don't ever plan to make a metal of equivalent or superior quality to adamantine, and I haven't changed my mind about that
So hadrine does not count as a 'metal', then? And by the way, just making sure, one hadrine reactive chest plate can be worn with a mail shirt, right? Cuz I don't want to make a whole bunch of hadrine reactive chest plates + adamantine mail shirts, only to discover the name was misleading me.
Hadrine is not technically a "metal" because I wanted to restrict its uses to the two custom reactions. Hadrine is also not as strong as adamantine, but reactive armor can only be made out of hadrine (or if you get VERY lucky with an artifact), and reactive armor has better coverage than anything you can make from adamantine. Chain mail and caps CAN be worn under reactive armor and helmets.
A hadrine reactive chest plate and an adamantine chain shirt are a "side grade" to an adamantine mail shirt and breastplate. The adamantine set will be able to absorb slightly more of an impact, but the hadrine/adamantine hybrid set will cover more of the body, resulting in the armor applying its bonuses to more impacts.
Which is more effective is something that's mostly a matter of preference - the hadrine will do more to prevent injuries to the upper arms and legs, but the adamantine breastplate will protect the chest better. Both can be worn over a chain shirt for substantially greater effect. Personally, I like the hadrine pieces more because they're better at protecting the extremities, but there are a few situations where a hadrine plate will yield while an adamantine plate will not (this is a trade-off that I am willing to make with my dwarves, but some players might not be - a "side grade").
Post by: The Master on August 07, 2011, 09:39:07 pm
Post by: narhiril on August 07, 2011, 09:52:39 pm
I can't wait for version 0.14b!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D
To fix all the bugs you expect with 0.14a?
I'm flattered, I guess.
;)
Post by: trees on August 07, 2011, 09:59:43 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I've been really enjoying this mod lately, btw, especially just looking over and reading the raws. It's helped me out quite a bit with the little experiments I've been tinkering with lately. Can't wait for the next version.
Post by: narhiril on August 07, 2011, 10:07:15 pm
I just bought afrom the elves. He was also an adequate presser. I'm guessing this is because of CAN_LEARN, right? Will he actually fly around and set bones of the injured? Because that would be pretty awesome.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I've been really enjoying this mod lately, btw, especially just looking over and reading the raws. It's helped me out quite a bit with the little experiments I've been tinkering with lately. Can't wait for the next version.
That little find of yours was not intentional, but I doubt it's worth fixing. A few stock creatures do that periodically as well, and it is linked to the CAN_LEARN tag. I have no idea what it will do, to be honest - probably not much that a pigeon doesn't normally do. And thank you, I appreciate the praises, and wish anyone good luck on their own endeavors. :)
I'm currently over on the KSP forums, trying to get an answer (between the intermittent server crashes) as to why the most popular addon database is willing to host every part but mine. I'll be checking back every few minutes if you all have any questions about the latest version of LFR.
Post by: TehNoob on August 07, 2011, 10:10:01 pm
Post by: narhiril on August 07, 2011, 10:17:39 pm
I think spec ops pigeons should be made more rare and less likely to be encountered in a serious situation. It's funny to see them in a cage bought by the elves, or one in a few large groups of pigeons. But it gets a little annoying and ruins the experience when they are brought along in sieges or something.
I agree with this, actually. I axed the [TRAINABLE] token in the most recent test build. They were supposed to be a rare reward for breeding pigeons, but turned out to be pretty useless due to their size, and them showing up in sieges is a little ridiculous.
From 0.14a on, they won't have [CAN_LEARN] or [TRAINABLE]. You'll see one periodically, but they won't be an active participant in combat anymore - the pigeons, after all, have their own agenda.
They are getting their own lore file, but that's a ways down the road. :)
Post by: narhiril on August 08, 2011, 01:42:43 am
I have changed the downloads to a .zip file for easier accessibility - if for some reason this is a problem for you, please let me know. As always, report bugs and anomalies as they come up in order for them to be fixed as soon as possible.
Post by: Pan on August 08, 2011, 02:29:47 am
Could you post all the things you have added in here? I'm going to start a fort as soon as possible, but I would like to hear what the new reactions and workshops and other stuff are before I start. You know, for planning my fortress.
Also, some tips on how they should be used is appreciated (like that ritual that gives you wooden weapons or something? The one that you wrote in green colored text.)
Post by: trees on August 08, 2011, 04:03:31 am
Post by: Pan on August 08, 2011, 05:44:38 am
Maybe you could add a new clear glass item (clear glass tank) just for this? Like how the clear glass box is used for display cases and display cases only.
Post by: narhiril on August 08, 2011, 12:23:29 pm
Narhiril, I must say this just made my week. And it's Monday!
Could you post all the things you have added in here? I'm going to start a fort as soon as possible, but I would like to hear what the new reactions and workshops and other stuff are before I start. You know, for planning my fortress.
Also, some tips on how they should be used is appreciated (like that ritual that gives you wooden weapons or something? The one that you wrote in green colored text.)
The lore_pantheon.txt file details most of the rituals, but I'll go ahead and transcribe the full reaction list.
--Sacrificial Altar--
All rituals have a chance of "divine displeasure," which causes intense pain for a little while and might light things on fire periodically.
Lesser Ritual of Shelter (s)
Takes 5 plants, can produce wood, shields, rubies, and helms. Useful for fortresses without ample wood supplies, and for some cheap shields.
Greater Ritual of Shelter (S)
Takes 15 plants, can produce greater quantities of wood, rubies, shields, helms, and a few items of unique materials, including a unique sword and shield (rare). Useful for fortresses without ample wood supplies, and for some cheap shields and possibly weapons.
Lesser Ritual of Power (p)
Takes 3 totems, can produce bone (or another unique material similar to iron) bolts, bloodstones, and a decent, unique blunt weapon. Useful for outfitting fortresses that rely on hunting or raising livestock.
Greater Ritual of Power (P)
Takes 8 totems, can produce bone or "strong" bone bolts, javelins, a unique (rare) trap component, and a small assortment of unique weapons. Useful for outfitting fortresses that rely on hunting or raising livestock.
Lesser Ritual of Sustenance (u)
Takes 1 bucket, can fill the bucket with water (60%). Useful for fortresses with limited or no water supply.
Greater Ritual of Sustenance (U)
Takes 1 bucket and 1 live vermin, more likely to fill the bucket without consequence. Useful for fortresses with limited or no water supply.
Lesser Ritual of Wealth (w)
Takes 1 stack of coins, can produce low level gems, white gold arrows and blowdarts, and a unique weapon (rare). Useful for fortresses looking to convert cheap metals into more valuable ones.
Greater Ritual of Wealth (W)
Takes 3 stacks of coins, can produce low level gems, white gold arrows and blowdarts, white gold bars, white gold trade goods, and the same unique weapon (less rare). Useful for fortresses looking to convert cheap metals into more valuable ones.
Lesser Ritual of Knowledge (k)
Takes 3 stacks of cloth, can produce magma-proof barrels, buckets, and mechanisms. Useful for keeping your buckets safe in the ritual of sustenance, as well as any magma-related applications.
Greater Ritual of Knowledge (K)
Takes 10 stacks of cloth, can produce larger quantities of magma-proof barrels, bins, buckets, and mechanisms, as well as precision tools (rare). Useful for keeping your buckets safe in the ritual of sustenance, as well as any magma-related applications. Can advance the mechanical tech tree in the absence of orichalcum.
Banshee Funeral Rite (b)
Takes 1 ectoplasmic remnant, creates one ethereal statue (moved from Alchemy Lab).
Kogut's First Sacrifice (x)
Takes 1 of each shrine component (see below), produces an item needed to build the fishing pond.
--Temple Component Foundry (TCF) --
Can create enormous goblets (several gold bars), candelabras (several silver bars and rough gems), and overgrown pedestals (stone and plants), which are used in
the construction of the shrines and in a special sacrifice at the altar (see above).
--Shrines--
The reactions available at the shrines don't currently do anything significant - they are placeholders for later developments.
--Crystal Growth Tank--
A "tier three" mechanical building requiring a rainbow diamond (made sometimes from hadrine synthesis). Converts mundane stone into a stone of a chosen color, and often produces similarly-colored gems as a byproduct (for windows). Useful for selectively coloring your constructions. The appearance of this workshop is admittedly lackluster and is subject to further revision.
--Trash Compactor--
A "tier one" mechanical building for converting excess tech advancement slabs to a unique (but unremarkable) stone. Used as a "sink" for clutter once advances are unlocked. Future developments are planned for this workshop.
--Orrery--
A "tier two" mechanical building that trains the teacher, student, and observer skills, and produces slabs of accreditation. Intended to make combat demonstrations more effective, as well as contributing to documentation.
--Fishing Pond--
A "hybrid" building, requiring a product of the altar and advanced mechanics workshop. Used for indoor fishing when natural supplies run out. Can be used to fish without input, or can be used to create "lures" from stone and thread, which can then be used to provide a possible (very) large catch.
--Smelter--
A reaction has been added to this workshop to melt down ethereal spheres without producing a tantrum spiral.
Post by: narhiril on August 08, 2011, 12:36:50 pm
0.14a was supposed to be a final update before the new features of Dwarf Fortress. Since the new version of Dwarf Fortress has not yet been released, 0.14a has grown a lot bigger than originally planned, and the agenda for the next update is not completely certain. That being said, I hope you enjoy the new features of 0.14a. The fishing pond is my personal favorite.
Post by: TehNoob on August 08, 2011, 01:18:59 pm
Also, you might want to update the manual. For example, voidwalkers being cloaked in sieges do not really go with 'voidwalker extermination force on the horizon is a terrible sight to behold' unless the dwarves are using some scrying technology.
Also, maybe a little (just a little) lore on how the sabre tooths were domesticated? Some may raise eyebrows without this.
Post by: narhiril on August 08, 2011, 02:42:40 pm
New reactions are just fine, narhiril. I'll be abandoning my current fort and starting a new one. I'll let you know if I find anything buggy ;)
Also, you might want to update the manual. For example, voidwalkers being cloaked in sieges do not really go with 'voidwalker extermination force on the horizon is a terrible sight to behold' unless the dwarves are using some scrying technology.
Also, maybe a little (just a little) lore on how the sabre tooths were domesticated? Some may raise eyebrows without this.
I seem to have missed that little detail about the voidwalkers. Thanks, I'll have it rewritten for the next version.
Although I wasn't planning on going into detail about the sabre-tooths because the procedurally-generated legends deal with taming. Periodically you will see an engraving with "refers to the taming of the (some underground creature) by (some guy) in (some year)." Anything more that I wrote for them would likely conflict with that, which is something that I'm trying to avoid when possible.
Right now, the only other issue I've noticed is that I misspelled "sustenance," but I'm sure a few other quirks got through as well. 0.14b will be released as soon as most of these are flushed out. I don't anticipate it requiring a new worldgen from 0.14a.
Post by: The Master on August 08, 2011, 03:41:51 pm
;D Pretty much!I can't wait for version 0.14b!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D
To fix all the bugs you expect with 0.14a?
I'm flattered, I guess.
;)
Post by: Putnam on August 08, 2011, 05:10:55 pm
...Is this normal?
Post by: narhiril on August 08, 2011, 05:30:19 pm
Uh, so I just walked through an evil tundra, and, after a zombie polar bear vanished after a bit of fighting, I found three leviathans, who ran away upon seeing me.
...Is this normal?
No, but they can survive on land, so they move around a bit. It seems most likely that they came from a nearby frozen ocean biome. They would be nearly harmless if I didn't allow them to survive on land.
I envisioned them kind of like sidewinders (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crotalus_cerastes). Only bigger, amphibious, and a lot more angry.
Post by: Pan on August 09, 2011, 09:18:00 am
And them I'll use them as bio weapons (as advertised). Problem is, how long do they burn? I'll drip magma down on the stockpiled barrels (placed in the ballista hallway) while the enemy charges through it. But I want it to emit the vapors for a period of time or this method won't be worth the trouble. So... does it emit the vapors for some time before distinguishing? Or is the poison gas instant like zinger explosions and voidwalker death wails?
Post by: narhiril on August 09, 2011, 04:14:18 pm
I'm going to start a fortress in an terrifying area. I will plant the foraged voracious maws for atrohpic bliss.
And them I'll use them as bio weapons (as advertised). Problem is, how long do they burn? I'll drip magma down on the stockpiled barrels (placed in the ballista hallway) while the enemy charges through it. But I want it to emit the vapors for a period of time or this method won't be worth the trouble. So... does it emit the vapors for some time before distinguishing? Or is the poison gas instant like zinger explosions and voidwalker death wails?
It's instant because there isn't currently a way to make it behave otherwise. If this ever becomes possible, I will have another look at it.
Post by: Merijeek on August 09, 2011, 06:06:29 pm
Post by: Putnam on August 09, 2011, 06:23:28 pm
I just grabbed the new version and ported an old save over. Do I need to regenerate a new world to get things like the altar and other new buildings? I'm not seeing them.
Yeah, you always need to gen a new world for entity file changes, and the entity file needs to change to support new buildings.
Post by: Merijeek on August 09, 2011, 06:35:03 pm
Post by: ciadude2 on August 09, 2011, 08:38:34 pm
Post by: narhiril on August 09, 2011, 10:43:27 pm
Fungus no longer grows indoors, though shrubs still do, after piercing a cavern. Is this a bug or working as designed?
LFR does not add, subtract, or modify any files related to grasses/floor fungus. I have no idea what's causing that behavior, but I haven't been able to reproduce it on my own copy.
Post by: trees on August 10, 2011, 12:00:44 am
Post by: astianax on August 10, 2011, 12:09:25 am
i thought the just 'grass' bug happened because of certain evil areas, but all my 'grass' this time was only in the good parts of the map (i always try to get embarks that are part good, part evil, and have savage mixed in somewhere) so that threw my theory out the window...
interestingly, the first time i had no fungus in the cave layer (which was way before i tried *any* mods, really) when i breached it, it still had fungus grow in my soil areas. this time, not so much. and layer 2 was about 90 levels down, so animals would have starved before i reached it. i didn't notice 'til they were saying they were hungry that the surface wasn't the mix of grasses we're used to now
Post by: Pan on August 10, 2011, 03:31:26 am
So anyway, what are your immediate plans now, Narhiril?
Post by: Carn on August 10, 2011, 10:31:15 am
Now I have Korgoth's intro stuck in my head.
Post by: Carn on August 10, 2011, 01:44:14 pm
Post by: narhiril on August 10, 2011, 02:11:56 pm
Is it just me or do dwarves and animals seem to suffocate to death a lot for no reason? I had this issue in earlier versions too, I don't know if it has anything to do with LFR since I only play with LFR, though. Probably just stubbed a toe against a wall and forgot to breath from the pain? Only in DF will creatures forget to breath because of the intense pain of toe-stubbing.
It happens in vanilla, too. Certain animals like to kill each other when put in the same pasture, usually by suffocation.
I think the lack of cave grass is caused by the lack of water in the caverns. Not an LFR bug, anyway.
So anyway, what are your immediate plans now, Narhiril?
The immediate plans are to play while you guys play, trying to weed out any further bugs or inconsistencies for 0.14b. School starts up for me with a bang in two weeks, so I'll be finding ways to plan my schedule around that (I actually developed many of the early parts of LFR during class, so this isn't bad news for development at all).
There may be a few more things I can do with the ritual tree before the next version of DF - namely introducing unconventional methods of acquiring soap and flux stone. I also have a fair number of spoiler-related creatures to hammer out for future use.
Post by: Carn on August 10, 2011, 04:07:20 pm
Post by: narhiril on August 10, 2011, 04:20:54 pm
Dwarves make pizza now? This is the best fort ever.
Yeah I *might* have thrown a few Godfather-inspired food items in there. But only because I *might* have been watching Mob Week on AMC.
Keep an eye out for the calzones. :)
Post by: Carn on August 11, 2011, 08:03:05 am
Though if I was going to live in an undead infested glacial hellhole, I'd probably want a large stockpile of frozen pizzas, too.
Post by: Pan on August 11, 2011, 09:23:29 am
The immediate plans are to play while you guys play, trying to weed out any further bugs or inconsistencies for 0.14b. School starts up for me with a bang in two weeks, so I'll be finding ways to plan my schedule around that (I actually developed many of the early parts of LFR during class, so this isn't bad news for development at all).
There may be a few more things I can do with the ritual tree before the next version of DF - namely introducing unconventional methods of acquiring soap and flux stone. I also have a fair number of spoiler-related creatures to hammer out for future use.
I was checking the manual for some inconsistencies. I noticed that Thyme is part of something planned for 'advanced cooking'? I'm interested in what that means.
Also, some inconsistencies:
'Sabre-toothed Tigers
While not technically a friendly creature, sabre-toothed tigers can be captured and tamed...'
'Zingers
Zingers are benign creatures found in the shallow caverns that can be captured and trained.'
Post by: Carn on August 11, 2011, 11:46:17 am
So, if we're going to have godfather pasta cooking dwarves, does that mean there will be dwarf hitmen with thompsons?
Or should I fuggedaboutit
Post by: Carn on August 11, 2011, 11:46:51 am
Post by: Carn on August 11, 2011, 02:57:45 pm
Post by: narhiril on August 11, 2011, 05:45:52 pm
The immediate plans are to play while you guys play, trying to weed out any further bugs or inconsistencies for 0.14b. School starts up for me with a bang in two weeks, so I'll be finding ways to plan my schedule around that (I actually developed many of the early parts of LFR during class, so this isn't bad news for development at all).
There may be a few more things I can do with the ritual tree before the next version of DF - namely introducing unconventional methods of acquiring soap and flux stone. I also have a fair number of spoiler-related creatures to hammer out for future use.
I was checking the manual for some inconsistencies. I noticed that Thyme is part of something planned for 'advanced cooking'? I'm interested in what that means.
Also, some inconsistencies:
'Sabre-toothed Tigers
While not technically a friendly creature, sabre-toothed tigers can be captured and tamed...'
'Zingers
Zingers are benign creatures found in the shallow caverns that can be captured and trained.'
Thanks, I forgot to update those.
Also, "advanced cooking" was something that I had hoped would be possible in the future - right now, the raws for food items are very limited. All you can do is set the name and cooking "level" (2 for easy, 3 for fine, 4 for lavish). You can't even put a prefstring on them right now...
Spoiler: I tried. (click to show/hide)
Thyme benefits cooking right now in the sense that it has an abnormally high material value when processed. Food with higher value is more likely to cause positive thoughts.
Post by: NobodyPro on August 11, 2011, 06:22:08 pm
Post by: Patchouli on August 11, 2011, 07:25:57 pm
Post by: narhiril on August 11, 2011, 07:38:29 pm
I'm going to give it a few more days, both for my own testing and for others, before I compile anything resembling a bug fix version. I don't feel like any major issue has come up yet, which is both relieving and a bit unnerving at the same time. I don't think it will hurt to wait a little bit longer and try to get a more complete update.
That being said, I'm not completely happy with the way things are going with the ritual tech tree - I know that it's still three tiers behind the mechanical tree in terms of development, but I'm still feeling compelled to work on some ideas for some preliminary uses for the shrines. Since all of the ritual rewards so far are intended for early game uses, I'd like to introduce a thing or two for the second tier that gives the tree a little more viability in the late game. A number of rewards are planned for higher tiers, including more powerful and unique pieces of armor, weaponry, clothing, and ammunition, but it is unlikely that anything far superior to iron will work its way into LFR before the next version of DF - primarily because I do not yet have the tokens necessary to implement the "risks" for such rewards (and for some of the rewards themselves - I have some VERY interesting plans here).
Expect new methods of acquiring soap, flux stone, and possibly food. Future (tier two and up) developments are not something I am willing to share right now because I do not know exactly what will be possible with the next version. I have a lot of circumstantial information, but until I actually see the tokens and how they work, I'm not saying anything more about what I want to do with the ritual tree.
Nice to see I'm not the only one making concept art for a mod for a game that uses a tileset :).
I've been drawing up artwork for video game concepts for years. LFR is no exception. Dwarf Fortress appealed to me for a number of reasons, particularly the fact that I've played a dwarven character at every opportunity in any context (I was heartbroken when Dragon Age 2 didn't let you start as a dwarf, which is most of the reason I haven't been playing it as religiously as the first one).
I always vowed never to implement anything into a game that I did not feel was up to the standard of the game's existing material - which was a problem, considering that I have no money and thoroughly average artistic ability, which is no match for a development company with unimaginable resources and talent. I am, however, fairly good at creating concepts and balancing them, even though my background in programming is brief, at best (for now- which is what I'm going to school for). I have always felt that I had a great intuitive sense of what makes games fun and what makes people remember the experience you give them as a gamer. Dwarf Fortress was the first time I had found a platform for which I had all of the abilities to make content that I consider high enough quality to share.
LFR is my first major attempt at a comprehensive and extensive modification for a game that is not solely for personal use. Being the first platform for me to really implement some of these concepts, there is a fair amount of concept art lying around in notebooks affiliated with this project.
And in case anyone's wondering, that last poll option is related to what I did last night. In response to continued harassment of my position, I mounted a shock-and-awe campaign against the hornets living on the side of my building under cover of nightfall, using a modified, extended-range bottle of RAID. I have not yet passed by to evaluate the damage for fear of an impending counterattack.
Post by: Carn on August 11, 2011, 07:59:49 pm
Post by: TehNoob on August 11, 2011, 08:03:01 pm
Post by: Pan on August 11, 2011, 10:04:12 pm
Post by: narhiril on August 11, 2011, 10:11:18 pm
Ether bars can be imported in my fortress. Might want to get that fixed.
Interesting. This seems to be a problem originating from the new reaction. Apparently, dwarves will never melt down objects on their own (which is why they weren't carrying them in all previous versions), but this new reaction gives them a non-melting way to obtain them - even though it's functionally identical.
What I'm going to do here is replace the "melt ethereal spheres" reaction with a "prepare ethereal spheres" reaction, which will take one ethereal sphere and produce one ethereal sphere. Regular ethereal spheres can be melted normally, while masterwork ones can be put through this reaction to create non-masterwork ones without causing a tantrum spiral.
That way, if you're having problems with masterwork ethereal spheres, melt all of the regular ones and then put the masterwork ones through this reaction to make them lower quality (by deleting them and replacing them with another one - custom reactions that consume masterwork items do not cause tantrums) before melting them as well. This reaction will no longer require fuel, but will still be found at the smelter. Expect this change for 0.14b.
If you're impatient (like I would be), here are the reaction raws.
Spoiler: reaction_alchemy_narhiril.txt (click to show/hide)
Post by: Pan on August 11, 2011, 10:15:44 pm
Post by: trees on August 11, 2011, 10:20:02 pm
On a similar note, I've had a weird issue regarding ether (or I'm just not understanding something): I have never seen an ethereal sphere, not even from the banshee funeral reaction. I've only seen an "ethereal statue of a dwarf" a few times, which is unable to be melted or used in the reaction to produce bars of ether. This is probably me messing something up since I use your mod as a base for my own weird attempts at creating things, but I don't think I've ever messed with any items outside of weapons. It's happened to me both in the current version and in 13b, help would be appreciated.
Post by: narhiril on August 11, 2011, 10:20:40 pm
What if the furnace operator is a high master, and processes the ethereal spheres to be masterwork as well? Keep preparing the prepared spheres till it's not masterwork? Cuz that works, sure. But it's a little weird. Might as well make a reaction called 'Process Ethereal Sphere' which takes 5 spheres and produces one bar.
This won't solve the problem of dwarven caravans still being able to bring ethereal bars. What I've done is made the reaction require an obscure skill. Surely you have someone around who isn't a master potash maker?
Post by: narhiril on August 11, 2011, 10:26:01 pm
That would make getting ether bars a chore and you'd still be able to import them.
On a similar note, I've had a weird issue regarding ether (or I'm just not understanding something): I have never seen an ethereal sphere, not even from the banshee funeral reaction. I've only seen an "ethereal statue of a dwarf" a few times, which is unable to be melted or used in the reaction to produce bars of ether. This is probably me messing something up since I use your mod as a base for my own weird attempts at creating things, but I don't think I've ever messed with any items outside of weapons. It's happened to me both in the current version and in 13b, help would be appreciated.
Heh... this is a hidden balance mechanic. Ethereal statues actually use a different material with the same value and properties (called ETHER_STONE instead of ETHER_METAL), except that it uses a stone template instead of a metal one, meaning you can't melt the statues. This was intentional - melting the statue would be too easy. I wanted you to have to risk some lives if you wanted the metal. ;)
They're not supposed to be importable. They're supposed to be RARE products from alchemy. Statistically, you can do just as well with voidshard (which can make armor, too).
Ether is tied for the third most effective metal in the game with voidshard (both behind adamantine and hadrine). The idea here is that you cannot advance beyond damascus steel without taking some risks. Ether requires luck, patience, and perhaps the sacrifice of some scientists. Voidshard already has a (quite pissed off) owner. Hadrine requires a lot of development and can only be used for two pieces of armor. Adamantine carries the risk of annihilation.
Post by: trees on August 11, 2011, 10:29:49 pm
I thought the Banshee funeral rite was supposed to produce ethereal spheres? I think I am probably just not understanding something, I'll read through the manual bit again.
Post by: narhiril on August 11, 2011, 10:30:36 pm
Er, yeah, the second part of my post was supposed to be a response to why Pan's solution wouldn't work.
I thought the Banshee funeral rite was supposed to produce ethereal spheres? I think I am probably just not understanding something, I'll read through the manual bit again.
I apologize, I acknowledge that this is a bit confusing. The banshee funeral rite only produces statues. They're quite nice for your legendary dining room, but they cannot in any way be converted to ether bars, even though they have the same material properties and name. As silly as it sounds, this is primarily to prevent frustration - melting a statue does not give enough metal for a bar, and since it is unlikely that you will end up with a large number of ethereal statues, I wanted to make melting impossible so that no one accidentally destroyed their statue by mistakenly thinking it could be made into a weapon.
Post by: trees on August 11, 2011, 10:31:53 pm
Post by: Pan on August 11, 2011, 10:33:02 pm
Ethereal spheres are from the alchemical experiements in the alchemy labs. They are rare, and probably the reason you've never seen them.
What if the furnace operator is a high master, and processes the ethereal spheres to be masterwork as well? Keep preparing the prepared spheres till it's not masterwork? Cuz that works, sure. But it's a little weird. Might as well make a reaction called 'Process Ethereal Sphere' which takes 5 spheres and produces one bar.
This won't solve the problem of dwarven caravans still being able to bring ethereal bars. What I've done is made the reaction require an obscure skill. Surely you have someone around who isn't a master potash maker?
Oh... good point. Well, in case you weren't joking (you probably were), you should still try to make it make sense. Like, make it at an altar? Request the gods to help you process this sphere with a 'Flatterer' or 'Concentration' skill or something. Dorfs with these skills are rare.
Holy shit, with my internet speed, I've been ninja'd since I tried to reply to tree's first comment...
... And ninja'd again.
Post by: narhiril on August 11, 2011, 10:36:31 pm
Alright, thanks for the quick replies, heh. I understand now.
You raise a valid point, though - it is much more confusing that it needs to be. It would probably be beneficial if I simply renamed it to "phantasmal." I don't think this statue was ever mentioned by name in the documentation (I think I called it a "special reward," but I will double check), so that should be a very easy change to implement.
Post by: narhiril on August 11, 2011, 10:38:03 pm
Ethereal statues are from another reaction, the 'Perform Banshee Rite', which takes a ectoplasm residue and frees the spirit inside or whatever. The spirit, in return, gives you an expensive statue.
Ethereal spheres are from the alchemical experiements in the alchemy labs. They are rare, and probably the reason you've never seen them.What if the furnace operator is a high master, and processes the ethereal spheres to be masterwork as well? Keep preparing the prepared spheres till it's not masterwork? Cuz that works, sure. But it's a little weird. Might as well make a reaction called 'Process Ethereal Sphere' which takes 5 spheres and produces one bar.
This won't solve the problem of dwarven caravans still being able to bring ethereal bars. What I've done is made the reaction require an obscure skill. Surely you have someone around who isn't a master potash maker?
Oh... good point. Well, in case you weren't joking (you probably were), you should still try to make it make sense. Like, make it at an altar? Request the gods to help you process this sphere with a 'Flatterer' or 'Concentration' skill or something. Dorfs with these skills are rare.
Holy shit, with my internet speed, I've been ninja'd since I tried to reply to tree's first comment...
... And ninja'd again.
I chose potash maker because I wanted to eliminate the possibility for someone to abuse the reaction to train an obscure skill. There's no quality modifier for potash, so there's no incentive to leave the reaction on repeat to get a better potash maker- as opposed to social skills, which help ever so slightly in terms of happiness and mayoral elections (and perhaps more in future updates of both DF and LFR). You can put it on repeat, but who really needs a high master potash maker?
Post by: TehNoob on August 11, 2011, 10:47:20 pm
What about the processing reaction doing this?
Takes one 'ethereal sphere' and gives out a 'processed ethereal sphere'. The 'processed ethereal sphere goes and gets melted, and you can't set it on repeat cuz the reaction only takes an 'ethereal sphere', not a 'processed ethereal sphere'. (which are both completely different objects anyway. This means you won't be able to train your social skills like this.
Post by: narhiril on August 11, 2011, 10:50:49 pm
I think it'll cause confusion. I would be.
What about the processing reaction doing this?
Takes one 'ethereal sphere' and gives out a 'processed ethereal sphere'. The 'processed ethereal sphere goes and gets melted, and you can't set it on repeat cuz the reaction only takes an 'ethereal sphere', not a 'processed ethereal sphere'. (which are both completely different objects anyway. This means you won't be able to train your social skills like this.
It also means that if your little dude makes a masterwork processed ethereal sphere, you're SOL - which is the problem that this reaction was originally implemented to circumvent. Previously, melting a masterwork ethereal sphere would cause tantrums in the alchemists that created them. The reason that the reaction produces spheres at all (instead of bars directly) is to prevent the caravan from bringing them. Everything would be fixed with a [CANNOT_IMPORT] token, which, unfortunately, does not exist.
This solution isn't perfect, but I like it a lot better than caravans carrying ether or alchemists losing their minds over the spheres. Alchemists should lose their minds in other, more exciting ways.
Oh... good point. Well, in case you weren't joking (you probably were), you should still try to make it make sense. Like, make it at an altar? Request the gods to help you process this sphere with a 'Flatterer' or 'Concentration' skill or something. Dorfs with these skills are rare.
The labor is the only thing I'm still up in the air about. I need a skill that provides no feasible benefit, but also makes sense. Is MAGIC_NATURE still a valid labor token, or was that axed after 40d?
Post by: TehNoob on August 11, 2011, 10:59:47 pm
Anyway, your mod. Just don't forget to make it clear it's a potash maker task.
Post by: narhiril on August 11, 2011, 11:05:03 pm
What are the chances of a unskilled dwarf producing a masterwork?
Anyway, your mod. Just don't forget to make it clear it's a potash maker task.
Next to none, but who's to say the dwarf is unskilled? The only way I can assure that the dwarf is unskilled is to make it require a very, very obscure labor - one that would not under any circumstances be present on a dwarf, but I also want the labor to make sense.
... Actually, thinking about it, you gave me an idea. Is NONE a valid labor token? If not, can you omit the [SKILL:xxx] field to the same effect? I'm going to plug it in and find out. If the game takes it and provides no skill benefits for the reaction, I'm going to go with your suggestion of creating a "processed ethereal sphere."
Post by: TehNoob on August 11, 2011, 11:24:43 pm
If it works, include me in the credits! :D
Post by: narhiril on August 11, 2011, 11:42:54 pm
Building a floodgate requires 'No Special Profession'. Maybe you could look into that?
If it works, include me in the credits! :D
Labor tokens (buildings) and skill tokens (reactions) are a little bit different, but it is encouraging to know that it works for buildings. That in mind,I tried two test builds.
[SKILL:NONE] did not work...
... but omitting the skill token entirely seems to be fine. Because toys do not accept an adjective token, I put it in at the end of the name. A miner took an ethereal sphere to the smelter and produced a base quality 'ethereal sphere (processed)' with no skill gain. It was worth noting that this reaction was instantaneous, since the skill used in a reaction determines its speed, but this is not something I am considering important in this case. These new objects can be melted normally.
I am considering this problem solved for the next release. Thank you to trees, Pan, and TehNoob for the speedy feedback here. Those of you not already mentioned in the special thanks section of the manual are being added to it.
Post by: TehNoob on August 12, 2011, 12:00:19 am
Post by: narhiril on August 12, 2011, 12:31:31 am
Anyway, do shrines have any use at all? Cuz all of the reactions for the ritual tech tree are in the altar. You should either add some shrine reactions, or maybe move the 'greater ritual of ___' rituals to their respective shrines.
I'm working on shrine reactions right now, actually. I've got some ideas for a few more things I can pack into 0.14b.
It turns out, however, that soap is a ridiculously counter-intuitive thing to produce in a reaction. I'm still fumbling around with the reaction raws trying to get it right. The current soap reaction uses these lines...
[REAGENT:tallow:1:GLOB:NONE:NONE:NONE][REACTION_CLASS:TALLOW][UNROTTEN]
[HAS_MATERIAL_REACTION_PRODUCT:SOAP_MAT]
[PRODUCT:100:1:BAR:NONE:GET_MATERIAL_FROM_REAGENT:tallow:SOAP_MAT]
[PRODUCT_DIMENSION:150]
... Which means that in order to get soap from another source, I am going to need to create a reaction for which I will need to create a new item from a new material with [MATERIAL_REACTION_PRODUCT:SOAP_MAT:(material)]. It doesn't look too complicated, but I'm sure I'll find some way to muck it up, so it might take me a day or two to get it working properly. The good news is that the soap maker's workshop is in the raws, so I will be able to produce this special item in the ritual and then convert it into soap with a new reaction at the soap maker.
Post by: narhiril on August 12, 2011, 01:03:45 am
So here it is, guys. I'm cutting the crap and fixing the existing bugs first. The new reactions will be in 0.14c.
In the meantime, here's 0.14b. Enjoy it.
EDIT: Concept art also coming soon.
Post by: Anathema on August 12, 2011, 12:25:33 pm
Post by: astianax on August 12, 2011, 01:18:09 pm
Post by: narhiril on August 12, 2011, 01:38:48 pm
You do realize that your graphical edition is about 75MB larger than it needs to be after unzipping, thanks to some unnecessary files: mainly a few bitmaps depicting DF worlds, and a gamelog.txt with more words than the entire Song of Ice and Fire series? :P I hate to sound overly picky (although it does slow downloading/unzipping a bit), but I notice these things in particular because I run DF off a USB drive with limited space. Which is, incidentally, very convenient if one plays on more than one pc - unlike most games DF will run directly off a USB, no installation or even copying needed.
You mean a log file of every action from the last 200 test builds isn't useful to you? ;)
I can clean that up a bit for the next release - I've literally just been packaging my test copy without the save files. In the meantime, you can safely delete those bitmaps and the game log.
Post by: narhiril on August 13, 2011, 09:09:51 pm
Post by: TehNoob on August 13, 2011, 11:47:59 pm
Post by: narhiril on August 14, 2011, 06:19:15 pm
What I would do is leave all of the stock files, but radically alter the permissions in all of the entity files to use only one or two articles of generically-named clothing. The old types of clothing would still exist for artifacts, but I'm thinking that this can dramatically reduce the amount of frame-eating clutter without removing much from the game's immersion factor. The textile industry would still be viable, because you could still produce and export these few clothing items, but invaders would show up with one or two articles of clothing (plus armor) instead of the ten million that they seem to show up with now. Flavor clothing would be preserved - the voidwalkers would use different generic clothing articles than the meowkin, and so on, but the system would be basically gutted and reworked for one to three items of clothing per race (armor not included). I've been using dfautodestroy to get rid of most of the clutter around my fortress, but frankly, I think it might be more fun if that wasn't necessary. You'll still get artifact socks and so on, but the average citizen will be wearing "(material) dwarven garb" and possibly a hat or two.
I am a bit concerned to go ahead and push this change for two reasons: one, it modifies the entity_default file a lot more extensively than I have before, which is not a good thing for cross-compatibility. Two, it might have unwanted impacts on anyone who may be using LFR for adventure mode, where individual articles of clothing are a lot more significant.
Thoughts?
Post by: thatkid on August 14, 2011, 06:29:28 pm
I play adventure mode, and tend to mix and match mods. I understand how having simplified clothing can help for FPS, but I find it to not help as much as it could and so it's really just an unnecessary dumbing down of the game.
Post by: Pan on August 14, 2011, 08:13:19 pm
However, for the people who like adventurer mode, clothing is quite a valuable trade good.
So you could make 2 versions of LFR. The 'normal' version, and the 'optional' simplified clothing version. I'd play the simplified version for my fortresses, and the normal one for those times I feel like clobbering someone to death with their hacked off limb.
Post by: The Master on August 14, 2011, 10:20:28 pm
Post by: TehNoob on August 14, 2011, 10:26:59 pm
Post by: Pan on August 14, 2011, 10:38:28 pm
Post by: narhiril on August 15, 2011, 01:26:09 am
I'm disappointed that the shrines do nothing. The temple district took me 5 solid minutes of planning and designating, and almost a year to carve out, fill the water areas with water, magma area with magma, and place all the captured goblin cages. Still, it looks pretty nice...
Alright, point taken. You want to know more about those useless buildings that you can spend resources to construct now, right? Here's a little more about the ritual tech tree's upcoming developments.
If you've been conducting rituals, you may have gotten a slight glimpse at the "materials of the old gods," which are all unique to the ritual tech tree. A sacrifice to power might produce "bloodforged bolts," while a ritual of wealth may produce a "dull crystalline shamshir." These materials are tied to the old gods, and are referred to in the raws as "MINOR_METAL_OF_(name)" - the only difference being that they cannot be melted down. Most of the tier one materials are approximately identical to iron in terms of strength, though they vary a bit in terms of weight. As you might expect, higher tiers of the ritual tech tree will be able to create more interesting and more powerful materials that will compliment (or rival) the advances in the mechanical tech tree.
Objectives for the future ritual tree advances include...
-Weapons, armor, and other objects created out of these new materials.
-New methods of acquiring flux stone.
-New methods of acquiring soap.
-New methods of acquiring potash (undecided if this will be ritual or mechanical in nature).
-Miraculous healing. The new version of DF does not mention this as a possibility, but I have a number of ideas for using unorthodox uses of tokens where it *might* be workable.
-Enchanted, syndrome-bearing ammunition (that, hopefully, will actually work).
-Creature material weaknesses.
-A number of "hidden" rewards and risks.
-Unique beverages
-Production of bone furniture.
Planned for the mechanical tech tree:
-Production of larger ammunition stacks.
-Production of stone bins.
-Production of backpacks and quivers from unorthodox materials.
-Production of beds from unorthodox materials.
-A new "distillery process" for an extremely valuable and potent alcohol.
Planned for "crossover" advances:
-A method for growing limited quantities of plants without appropriate soil conditions.
-Living constructs.
Post by: Carn on August 15, 2011, 02:09:33 am
Optional plugin minimods? Bone furniture? Stone bins and non-wood beds? Poison arrows, living constructs?
You make DF better with every update.
Post by: Pan on August 15, 2011, 03:49:18 am
Also, while making a throne from the bones if a dragon is awesome, wouldn't that mean cat/dog/badger/etc bone thrones will also be popping up? That probably isn't a good thing to most people. I mean, the Standardized Leather Mod got quite a good reception, since people are tired (some from the start) of 'kitten leather armor' and stuff. Perhaps you could only allow big, badass megabeasts, titans, semi megabeasts, FBs, and clown bones to be made into furniture?
By the way, Narhiril, what does the concept art look like? I mean, you may want to keep it as a surprise, which is completely fine, but in case your feeling like it, how about telling us what it's going to be about?
Post by: Carn on August 15, 2011, 09:51:51 am
It's what I used to do in 40d to make bauxite floodgates and mechanisms. Still, that's quite a workaround, more efficient reactions would be handy I suppose.
Perhaps some day we'll even be able to specify that you want the stonecarver to make that miniforge your mayor is demanding instead of 574 toy axes.
Post by: narhiril on August 15, 2011, 03:39:04 pm
Will all these awesome, awesome ideas need for us to wait for the next DF update? (By the way, when is that update coming?)
Also, while making a throne from the bones if a dragon is awesome, wouldn't that mean cat/dog/badger/etc bone thrones will also be popping up? That probably isn't a good thing to most people. I mean, the Standardized Leather Mod got quite a good reception, since people are tired (some from the start) of 'kitten leather armor' and stuff. Perhaps you could only allow big, badass megabeasts, titans, semi megabeasts, FBs, and clown bones to be made into furniture?
By the way, Narhiril, what does the concept art look like? I mean, you may want to keep it as a surprise, which is completely fine, but in case your feeling like it, how about telling us what it's going to be about?
The way I've done the new material templates for legendary creatures makes this a very simple thing to do. All I have to do is add a reaction class token to those templates and call it in the reaction to prevent anything of "lesser" bones or leather from being used.
The concept art is not supposed to be a surprise, but is limited by the fact that I don't have access to a scanner until Monday. I suppose I could take pictures of them, but the quality of my camera phone is somewhat lacking.
And no, not all of these ideas will need to wait for the next update. Some of the things within the ritual tree and everything within the mechanical tree's listings are possible with the current version.
Post by: narhiril on August 15, 2011, 06:13:34 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
This also gave me a few ideas for some FUN ritual byproducts. Stay tuned :)
Post by: TehNoob on August 15, 2011, 08:22:27 pm
But still, having a high priest that is blind probably wouldn't be cool. You might want to restrict it to higher tech rituals.
Post by: narhiril on August 15, 2011, 11:36:36 pm
I guess I'll finally have siege operators that won't run away.
But still, having a high priest that is blind probably wouldn't be cool. You might want to restrict it to higher tech rituals.
I was actually talking about plant transmutation at the alchemy lab - one of the possible byproducts causes temporary blindness (it fades after an in-game day or two). Or at least, it's supposed to Right now it doesn't do a thing because it needs the aforementioned fix.
Ritual byproducts currently only cause short-duration extreme pain (usually knocking the dwarf unconscious for a little while) or, in rare and special cases, coughing of blood for a brief duration. They may also light things on fire periodically. All of the current ritual byproducts are short-term effects that do not have much potential to seriously harm as long as you're careful where you put the altars. Consequences of later rituals will be more severe, but the rewards will also be greater. You may even find yourself with a double-edged result - "blessing and a curse," if you will. I won't say much more about that because I don't want to make any commitments to ideas before the tokens even come out, but the gods can be fickle.
I will, however, promise the following. There will never be a ritual or mechanical advancement that comes with hidden risks - reactions and advances that have risks associated with them will always be explicitly noted in the manual - though the exact forms of these risks may not always be fully described, you will know the level of risk associated with each reaction up front. The same cannot be said of rewards - I like to hide these in unusual places sometimes without telling anyone about them. There's actually one or two of these buried in the current version of the ritual tech tree, but I'm not telling you where - it makes the experience for the first person to accidentally stumble upon them that much more magical.
Post by: Pan on August 16, 2011, 12:11:51 am
The concept art is not supposed to be a surprise
In that case, would you like to describe it? What is it, dwarves fighting voidwalkers? Dwarves being smitten by their gods? Goblins bleeding to death from atrophic bliss vapors? An alchemist holding up an ether sphere?
Post by: narhiril on August 16, 2011, 02:22:43 am
The concept art is not supposed to be a surprise
In that case, would you like to describe it? What is it, dwarves fighting voidwalkers? Dwarves being smitten by their gods? Goblins bleeding to death from atrophic bliss vapors? An alchemist holding up an ether sphere?
All of the above, more or less. Concepts of creatures, races, weapons and armor, old gods, and mock-ups of technical advances - some of which made it into LFR, some of which were too ambitious for the current engine.
Post by: Pan on August 16, 2011, 08:28:38 am
And I'd like to see your rendition of voidwalkers. Always sort of wondered what they would look like to the you (the graphics were not very clear).
In fact, to be honest, I don't feel very threatened when the bog trolls and the lizardmen show up. Their graphics don't really make them look serious (the bog trolls look like the flintstones, and a friend asked me once what an army of people in king's robes [the bog trolls] was doing there) and they don't really seem to blend in with the rest of the ironhand graphics. Same goes for the nephilim, who don't really look all that majestic.
No offense meant, though. Sorry if I do sound a bit harsh. I understand you must have spent a lot of time on them. They aren't bad and I couldn't do better myself, just that I have a little criticism to offer .
Post by: narhiril on August 16, 2011, 12:39:39 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/slvKV.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/UMU1c.png)
There's only so much detail you can put into 16x16 squares. I feel like you can at least recognize them. And since when did the Flintstones have two massive horns coming out the sides of their heads?
If you feel that they don't "blend" with Ironhand, it's partly because he uses 18x18 squares and a grayscale background (whereas I use transparent). And because he's a much better artist than I am.
But really, I didn't think they were half bad. Especially the lizardman master spearman and the nephilim consul - the latter of which you won't likely ever see in fortress mode, unfortunately. The hardest ones to do were the voidwalkers, since it was extremely difficult to get them to look even remotely like the concept art, which you'll see as soon as I can get that scanned. I understand that they might not suit everyone's tastes, but I personally spent quite a while on them and I feel like at the very least, they are recognizable.
Which reminds me to add to the changelog... fixed a bug where nephilim diplomats were using the wrong graphic. They should be using the one with the green robe (they only start showing up when you get a baron or higher).
Post by: Seriyu on August 16, 2011, 05:52:41 pm
Post by: Pan on August 16, 2011, 06:25:18 pm
Post by: narhiril on August 16, 2011, 07:05:56 pm
Horns? I thought that was a fur trim :P
They wear a one-shoulder scrap of fabric. The horns are large and forward-facing. Their tattered loincloth things don't have fur trim - that's something a dwarf would make, not a bog troll.
How is Iovium for armor? Obviously it's super dense which is good for blunt weapons, and it'd make the dwarves using the armor incredibly slow considering how heavy it is, but would it provide good protection?
Similar to silver, but heavier. Good for blunt weapons and possibly shields (though they'd be very heavy), but not much else.
Post by: Seriyu on August 16, 2011, 07:15:04 pm
That never occurred to me, thank you.
Post by: Pan on August 16, 2011, 08:06:27 pm
Post by: TehNoob on August 17, 2011, 03:53:19 am
Post by: Pan on August 17, 2011, 08:47:59 am
Post by: narhiril on August 17, 2011, 01:55:25 pm
I'm wondering if I should start a new fortress right now. On one hand, I want to play 0.14b. On the other, I don't want to have a successful fort only for 0.14c to be out. So narhiril, when is 0.14c expected to be released?
Not for a little while, I'm trying to add a few more things to it that will require some testing. Maybe a week or two at the earliest, though I don't like to put dates on versions when I haven't even started testing them yet.
On the other hand, I'm starting a fortress right now. Won't be waiting for an update just to start my fort. Still, narhiril, can you tell me what to add to the zinger raws to make them cause blindness?
Open "inorganic_zinger_death_blasts.txt" and locate the LFR_ZINGER_FLASH entry.
Replace the syndrome's three [CE_blahblahblah] tokens with these (the first and third will now work properly).
[CE_IMPAIR_FUNCTION:SEV:800:PROB:100:BP:BY_CATEGORY:EYE:ALL:START:1:PEAK:5:END:8000]
[CE_DIZZINESS:SEV:400:PROB:100:SIZE_DILUTES:START:1:PEAK:300:END:8000]
[CE_IMPAIR_FUNCTION:SEV:400:PROB:100:BP:BY_CATEGORY:EAR:ALL:START:1:PEAK:300:END:4000]
Post by: Pan on August 18, 2011, 10:13:23 pm
Although actually, just forgot to include the link. You should be the one to provide the latter.
Post by: narhiril on August 19, 2011, 01:41:56 am
You know, narhiril, you should go to the community mods list and request a change in your mod description from 'Lots of stuff' to something else. Last time I requested LFR to be listed, I made the slightly embarrassing mistake of forgetting to provide the link and the description. :P
Although actually, just forgot to include the link. You should be the one to provide the latter.
Working on it. Normally I like to let other people do my descriptions (as mine are quite long-winded), but "lots of stuff" isn't really adequate.
Post by: Seriyu on August 19, 2011, 01:42:58 am
Post by: narhiril on August 19, 2011, 02:02:21 am
Ends up Iovium cannot be used for armor, and thus shields. Oh well.
You'd be better off with copper armor. Iovium is a terrible armor material. I didn't even include the option because I didn't want anyone to waste their entire iovium stock on armor only to find it nearly worthless in combat. I thought it might make a decent shield because shield material is only relevant for shield bash attacks (which iovium is exceptional for), but with the amount of weight you'd be loading on any dwarf carrying it, it might be more of a drawback than an advantage.
Post by: TehNoob on August 19, 2011, 11:56:42 am
And really, the reason profit didn't say anything about LFR is probably cuz Pan didn't mention a description.
Post by: narhiril on August 19, 2011, 06:12:08 pm
Narhiril, I advise shortening your description on the community mods list :D
And really, the reason profit didn't say anything about LFR is probably cuz Pan didn't mention a description.
I don't blame him for it, I just don't think "lots of stuff" is good enough. I gave him some basic info and a link, he can write a description from there - I wasn't expecting him to use mine, as it would span like five lines.
---
News from the 0.14c front.
CURRENTLY COMPLETED
-Fixed a bug that was preventing transmutation and flashbang zingers' blind effects from working properly.
-Clutch size for tortoises has been substantially reduced (50+ being born at a time was a logistical nightmare).
-Excess clutter (gamelog, bmps) has been removed from the pre-packaged version.
-Fixed a bug causing the nephilim diplomats to use the wrong graphic.
-Fixed a bug causing the reaction for lead hammerhead javelins not to show up at the advanced metal caster.
-The rituals of power have had the number of reagents reduced from "3 and 8" to "1 and 3."
-Added a "crush stone" reaction to the trash compactor as yet another stone sink.
IN PROGRESS
-Several new reactions for the shrines.
-Several new reactions and products for the TCF.
PLANNED
-The "Machine Shop," which will be able to create stone bins and beds (requires advanced mechanisms, precision tools, and several metal chains).
---
I start classes on Monday, but I still anticipate being able to get this version completed by the first week in September, at the latest. For those of you who care, concept art will start showing up this coming week. :)
Post by: TehNoob on August 19, 2011, 07:30:14 pm
Post by: The Master on August 19, 2011, 07:33:52 pm
Make stone beds require cloth, please. I mean, sleeping on a wooden husk of a bed (normal vanilla beds need no blankets, it appears) is more or less better than the cave floor. A bed made of stone is just like sleeping on the floor!Not really, Dwarves just need a flat surface to sleep on. If you make things too complicated then you scare off a lot of people who would have got the mod otherwise. what's next, a sowing machine? :P
Post by: TehNoob on August 19, 2011, 07:39:51 pm
Post by: TehNoob on August 19, 2011, 08:30:14 pm
'Conduct plant transmutation from 5 ___.'
'___' is a certain plant. (plump helmet, winding spire, sweet pod, shankweed etc)
Now they won't take the just produced batch of 'vines of xanadu' to make shankweed.
It may be a bit of work for something small, but here's just a thought.
Post by: narhiril on August 19, 2011, 10:54:45 pm
Anyway, the new updates are awesome. However, the plant transmutation reaction... well, it's not buggy if you don't set it to repeat. That's really a bit like saying 'it's not buggy if you don't use it'. I think, perhaps, you could do several reactions for the plant transmutation:
'Conduct plant transmutation from 5 ___.'
'___' is a certain plant. (plump helmet, winding spire, sweet pod, shankweed etc)
Now they won't take the just produced batch of 'vines of xanadu' to make shankweed.
It may be a bit of work for something small, but here's just a thought.
This would require a very, very large number of reactions to account for at least most of the major flora in the game, but I do understand where you're coming from here. It would be far better if the reaction could be safely set to repeat, and a revision of this reaction would not be something that would take a lot of time (it could conceivably be done almost immediately). Here are some options I am looking into...
1) Making a small handful of reactions for a few common plants (plump helmet, shankweed, bluebell, mousebulb, dimple cup, wild strawberry, rat weed). This would ensure that the more valuable products are not consumed in the reaction.
2) Changing the reaction to use logs instead of plants as reagents. I am unsure about this option because I know from experience that the number of enemies and dangerous creatures in LFR makes woodcutting a much more dangerous and difficult job after the first few years.
3) Changing the reaction to use seeds instead of plants as reagents. It would be wise to forbid some seeds as reserves in this case. I am leaning towards this particular option, as it seems to make the most sense.
How do you feel about any of these? Anyone else is free to chime in as well.
Post by: Carn on August 20, 2011, 01:02:27 am
Post by: SirAaronIII on August 20, 2011, 01:55:49 am
Post by: astianax on August 20, 2011, 02:57:36 pm
and, as for the cloth for stone beds, there's another mod that did that. i honestly don't remember which one, atm, unfortunately. i do know that my modified silkworms helped a lot on that, making actual silkworm farming doable. but, if you don't use something like those, cloth can be a bit of a pain, if one doesn't set up a pig tail farm plot or the like. i guess it all depends on how people feel for extra work
Post by: Pan on August 20, 2011, 07:00:14 pm
Although it's made with advanced mechanics... oh well, whatever.
Post by: narhiril on August 20, 2011, 08:18:29 pm
Well... a stone bed, you know? Doesn't strike me as comfy.
Although it's made with advanced mechanics... oh well, whatever.
I'm not seeing how a purely wooden bed is any more comfortable. I was under the impression that the material of the bed was only referring to the frame, and that bedding material was not required simply for simplicity's sake (just as traction benches do not reflect the secondary materials used in their construction). Is sleeping on a hardwood floor any different than sleeping on a stone one?
My point is that, logically, yes, you're entirely right, beds should require cloth or some sort of bedding, but at the same time, I cannot go in and modify the existing hard-coded reaction that produces beds from a single log. I could very easily make the stone beds require cloth, but I think - and correct me if you think differently - that this would just make the default wooden beds look that much more absurd. I feel that by forcing this inconsistency with the default reaction, I would be detracting from the game more than adding to it. In this case, I think simplicity and consistency are more beneficial than accuracy. You are free to try and convince me otherwise - I have been convinced to see things from another perspective in the past. I do, however, feel that the community for this mod, especially long-term supporters and posters such as yourself, are entitled at least to a better explanation than "because that's what I think." If you find yourself saying "oh whatever," it means that either something isn't clear or that I'm doing something without a good reason, both of which are issues that need to be rectified.
Since this is slightly more advanced cutting than simply using a saw, I made the machine shop a tier one mechanical building, which can also construct bins out of stone by cutting pieces that interlock into a box. Since the cutting mechanisms are going to require precision tools, advanced mechanisms, and metal (drive) chains, it is still going to be easier to make beds and bins out of wood if it is available.
I am a bit concerned however, that the availability of stone would essentially make wood obsolete once the workshop is built, which is not something I want to do. To balance this out, I wanted to make this workshop require power, but that would require one of two things...
1) A token which is planned, but does not currently exist.
2) Fuel. Which means I will need to make a magma version as well.
---
So I guess here are the options...
1) Continue with the Machine Shop as is and do not require any reagents other than input stone.
2) Force the Machine Shop to use fuel, and make a magma-powered version as well.
3) Scrap the idea until the ability to require power for buildings is made public.
4) Make it a hybrid building, dipping into the ritual tree to explain the power source.
I am open to any of these possibilities, but numbers 2 and 4 seem to be the ones that I am most inclined to use. I'd like to try to strike as elegant a balance as possible, and for that, I may need to look at the same information from a different angle. Any feedback, comments, or concerns are most welcome.
Post by: Carn on August 20, 2011, 08:57:11 pm
Also, not every embark is drowning in stone. Only when you embark in mountains / high elevation do you get those 100+ z levels of nothing but rock. I like lower elevations because they tend to be flat on the surface and more interesting (deadly) environments, like salt oceans, glaciers, swamps, and deserts. Aquifers can also make rock harder to acquire. Every embark is different. In theory, if you embarked on the most lush forest imaginable, you might even make wood crafts! I never have, because wood is so crucial for fuel and beds and bins and the like, but hey...
Anyway, having the machine shop require tech advancement as you already planned might be all you need to balance stone beds out. Making wood beds would still be more simple and certainly faster early, and that is when harvesting lumber outside is least dangerous (before ambushes and sieges start).
I'm going to be honest, even if stone beds do not require fuel, I will always be requesting wood from caravans, and buying every log I can, as well as clearcutting every tree I find. The amount of wood a fortress needs to run is *insane* if you want to actually use alchemy, melt down metal ore/scrap from invaders, and make metal crafts/weapons/armor. Anything that adds more reliance on fuel would need some significant bonus to be worth adding to that strain. Requiring fuel would eat a log anyway, so it's strictly slower AND less efficient than simply making a wooden bed. Even in a no-tree environment it wouldn't make sense to do this, since you're most likely using trees for fuel. In my experience the game is already irritating to play without starting with magma on the surface. Jobs that require fuel simply do not get accomplished without magma at any reasonable rate, and having more workers assigned to them does not help unless there are infinite trees with no danger to the woodcutters.
I suppose that was a wall of text.
tldr - I see no problem with beds made of rock as a tech advancement
Post by: Pan on August 20, 2011, 11:32:15 pm
After all, in DF, how does the engraver chip rock walls with no tools? Or the fishermen with no net or pole? Or the smith with no hammer?
In any case, dwarves sleeping on rock and wood beds with no cloth isn't the most 'unrealistic' thing out there. ;)
Post by: narhiril on August 21, 2011, 12:13:43 am
@ Pan - Orichalcum is a base metal that is not known for its hardness, but it exhibits shape memory - when bent or reformed into a new shape and then heated, it returns to the shape in which it was forged with an alarming amount of force. This effect can be used to create motors, tools, and seals well beyond the capabilities of most other metals. Orichalcum tools use this force to mold mechanisms of sizes and dimensions identical to a degree of precision not previously known to the dwarves. Orichalcum precision tools can also be used to produce other tools of different metals using this potential for accuracy. This is based on the presumption that a casting mold made of orichalcum would actually grow stronger at the high temperatures of casting, as higher temperature would make the mold more and more resistant to deformation (up until the point of melting, which is very high for orichalcum).
Shape memory is an actual phenomenon (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7jjqXh7bB4), but, orichalcum being a fictional metal, the durability of the metal and strength of the shape memory effect has been exaggerated for artistic purposes. Real shape-memory alloys are more frequently used in precision medicine, a technique originally pioneered by NASA.
Post by: narhiril on August 21, 2011, 12:58:01 am
Post by: TehNoob on August 21, 2011, 09:27:05 am
Post by: Carn on August 21, 2011, 02:46:31 pm
Stone beds would be a thing of beauty!
Post by: narhiril on August 21, 2011, 10:13:46 pm
An executable? Will it work on Macs?
Does LFR currently run on Macs? I honestly know next to nothing about running DF (or just about anything else) on Macs.
If you're using the raw-only release, it isn't going to change anything - the df.exe file is only included with the pre-installed version, and this is the only one that would be updated with this feature.
Maybe it's just me, but I am of the opinion that all fuel consuming jobs should consume less fuel, and there should be less of them. Running out of fuel isn't a lot of fun. When your fuel is also the only thing you can make beds out of, that furthers the fun reduction. It is a slippery slope.
Stone beds would be a thing of beauty!
I'm going to push it through without fuel for now and see how it works. I can always revise it later if it axes (lol "axes") wood's role from the game too much.
Post by: TehNoob on August 21, 2011, 11:29:48 pm
Post by: Fjords to Plowshares on August 21, 2011, 11:40:59 pm
Post by: narhiril on August 21, 2011, 11:52:59 pm
Mostly posting to follow, but since I'm here: are tortoises still OP at embark? In .13 I found them to be about as useful (bone, meat, defense, &c) as dogs, but costing 3 instead of 16. It's good to heAr that they no longer reproduce at ludicrous speed, but is the 100 tortoise embark still workable?
I appreciate the feedback - I'm still not entirely sure how embark point values are calculated for pets (it seems to factor in some combination of PETVALUE and SIZE). I'll add it to the "to do" list.
This will be tweaked to something more reasonable for tortoises in 0.14c - probably something around 20 to 25 points each.
Post by: Pan on August 22, 2011, 01:15:42 am
OK, it's 1 am where you live, narhiril (your in the US, right?) But still, we can expect the concept art sometime today or, failing that, tomorrow? :D
Post by: narhiril on August 22, 2011, 07:44:15 pm
Well, what do you know? It's Monday!
OK, it's 1 am where you live, narhiril (your in the US, right?) But still, we can expect the concept art sometime today or, failing that, tomorrow? :D
I have to dig up some of the earlier ones, but I should be able to have something uploaded by late tonight or tomorrow (latest). Don't expect Van Gogh here - most of the artwork consists of sketches (some hasty, some detailed) on notebook paper, without any vibrant colors. It's remarkably difficult to get away with bringing a box of colored pencils to class nowadays.
I also have to make sure that I don't leak too much in the way of future developments. The concept art tends to be a few steps ahead of the actual project at all times.
First uploads will probably be some early sketches of voidwalkers. Voidwalkers were originally divided into castes, but this was scrapped due to the unavailability of caste-based graphics. They also had a limited flight capability, but this was scrapped as well due to the inability to create it (it's either "cannot fly" or "flies all over the place," without a real possibility for wing-aided "jumping" as was intended - expect this to be re-visited when the ability to breach or climb walls is added). Original voidwalker sketch-ups had six to eight smaller wings.
The original castes:
Void Walker (normal, civilian)
Void Caller (ability to summon reinforcements)
Void Shaper (ability to create objects from nothing)
Void Cutter (massive destructive power at the expense of lowered defense)
The Shaper position later manifested itself as the "invoker" nobility positions, which, according to the lore, are responsible for the creation of voidshard. Cutters and Callers were cut, but both are likely to return in some form once caste-specific graphics are introduced. Cutters will likely have a breath attack, Callers are going to rely pretty heavily on new tokens.
Also featured in the artwork is some concepts of voidwalker weapons, most of which made it into the game. So, hopefully, you will finally be able to see what the hell a "twisted blade" and "void energy projector" are.
I'll try to put down DX:HR long enough to get something posted late tonight.
Post by: TehNoob on August 23, 2011, 12:03:23 am
Post by: Carn on August 23, 2011, 04:46:15 pm
Seeing as how twisted blades are pretty much how they sound and void projectors are already incorporated into the graphics, I'm pretty sure we can all already guess what they look like.
I'd still like to see concept art. Concept art is cool.
Post by: narhiril on August 23, 2011, 08:56:01 pm
Post by: TehNoob on August 23, 2011, 10:49:55 pm
Seeing as how twisted blades are pretty much how they sound and void projectors are already incorporated into the graphics, I'm pretty sure we can all already guess what they look like.
I'd still like to see concept art. Concept art is cool.
Never said I didn't want to either :P
Post by: JimmyBobJr on August 24, 2011, 03:51:38 am
Ive never modded Dwarf Fortress before, so this will be a interesting experience.
I shall report back tomorrow with how i find the mod goes.
Post by: Pan on August 24, 2011, 05:50:58 am
Congradulations, Narhiril, this is the first mod that i found interesting enough to bother downloading.
Ive never modded Dwarf Fortress before, so this will be a interesting experience.
I shall report back tomorrow with how i find the mod goes.
A tip: Invest in flashbang, not putrid or fragmentation zingers. The other two aren't quite as good as the first.
Post by: The Master on August 24, 2011, 05:17:47 pm
But that doesn't make any sense! a flashbang stuns, correct? shouldn't a frag be more powerful, due to the damage?Congradulations, Narhiril, this is the first mod that i found interesting enough to bother downloading.
Ive never modded Dwarf Fortress before, so this will be a interesting experience.
I shall report back tomorrow with how i find the mod goes.
A tip: Invest in flashbang, not putrid or fragmentation zingers. The other two aren't quite as good as the first.
Post by: narhiril on August 24, 2011, 05:37:04 pm
But that doesn't make any sense! a flashbang stuns, correct? shouldn't a frag be more powerful, due to the damage?Congradulations, Narhiril, this is the first mod that i found interesting enough to bother downloading.
Ive never modded Dwarf Fortress before, so this will be a interesting experience.
I shall report back tomorrow with how i find the mod goes.
A tip: Invest in flashbang, not putrid or fragmentation zingers. The other two aren't quite as good as the first.
The frags are admittedly underpowered. I'm looking into some options for them in the next version. Unfortunately, it's impossible to get a syndrome to cause a weapon-type wound, so they just cause prolonged bleeding right now. They're not completely useless, but blind is a much more useful effect at the moment.
Post by: Pan on August 24, 2011, 07:23:46 pm
Although I guess it's not such a good idea to leave a post unfinished for 2 hours before trying to submit it :P
Post by: TehNoob on August 25, 2011, 12:27:27 am
Sorry guys, but it's going to have to wait another day. I've got so much going on tonight :\
I hate waiting. (In Spanish accent)
Post by: The Master on August 25, 2011, 01:01:34 am
Post by: narhiril on August 25, 2011, 01:30:30 am
EDIT: A few concept drawings. I'll add more later, right now this is all I could dig up before I go to bed.
Warning: HUGE images, I'll shrink them down next time.
Spoiler: voidwalker1 (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: voidwalker2 (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: spoiler1 (click to show/hide)
Apologies for my terrible handwriting.
Post by: trees on August 25, 2011, 02:01:29 am
Post by: TehNoob on August 25, 2011, 02:16:03 am
Post by: Pan on August 25, 2011, 02:31:18 am
Sorry guys, but it's going to have to wait another day. I've got so much going on tonight :\
I hate waiting. (In Spanish accent)
I hope I wasn't the only one to catch noob's reference to The Princess Bride. (I hate waiting)
Anyway, narhiril, that was awesome. You humanized them a little too much. I imagined they as a bit of an insectoid race, with no mouth, glowing eyes that look evil, and chitinous hide. But anyway, good job!
Post by: narhiril on August 25, 2011, 03:10:29 am
Sorry guys, but it's going to have to wait another day. I've got so much going on tonight :\
I hate waiting. (In Spanish accent)
I hope I wasn't the only one to catch noob's reference to The Princess Bride. (I hate waiting)
Anyway, narhiril, that was awesome. You humanized them a little too much. I imagined they as a bit of an insectoid race, with no mouth, glowing eyes that look evil, and chitinous hide. But anyway, good job!
They would look less human in color, but it's quite hard to get colored pencils into class nowadays. The skin is supposed to be semi-reflective white, while the eyes are a solid, slightly glowing blue. I'm not good enough to make the skin drawings take on the texture I wanted - which I imagine as something similar to the shell on this (http://www.stuffedsafari.com/v/vspfiles/photos/FA-A14983-2T.jpg) stuffed hermit crab.
Which totally just blew my mind when it showed up in Google images. I want that crab plushie now.
Love them! By the way, what do the spec op pigeons reference?
They were born from a discussion in this (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=82773.msg2205791#msg2205791) thread. Sooner or later, they're going to get their own lore file.
Post by: Pan on August 26, 2011, 11:39:04 am
Objectives for the future ritual tree advances include...
-Weapons, armor, and other objects created out of these new materials.
-New methods of acquiring flux stone.
-New methods of acquiring soap.
-New methods of acquiring potash (undecided if this will be ritual or mechanical in nature).
-Miraculous healing. The new version of DF does not mention this as a possibility, but I have a number of ideas for using unorthodox uses of tokens where it *might* be workable.
-Enchanted, syndrome-bearing ammunition (that, hopefully, will actually work).
-Creature material weaknesses.
-A number of "hidden" rewards and risks.
-Unique beverages
-Production of bone furniture.
Planned for the mechanical tech tree:
-Production of larger ammunition stacks.
-Production of stone bins.
-Production of backpacks and quivers from unorthodox materials.
-Production of beds from unorthodox materials.
-A new "distillery process" for an extremely valuable and potent alcohol.
Planned for "crossover" advances:
-A method for growing limited quantities of plants without appropriate soil conditions.
-Living constructs.
So, which of the above can we expect during the September update?
Post by: The Master on August 26, 2011, 01:17:21 pm
Post by: narhiril on August 26, 2011, 06:32:41 pm
So, which of the above can we expect during the September update?
Stone bins, stone beds (both at the machine shop), soap from rituals, flux from rituals, rock crystal from rituals, a few new hidden features.
Also, the following balance and bug fixes (ripped right from the manual), subject to additions as needed.
-Fixed a bug that was preventing transmutation and flashbang zingers' blind effects from working properly.
-Clutch size for tortoises has been substantially reduced.
-Excess clutter (gamelog, bmps) has been removed from the pre-packaged version.
-Fixed a bug causing the nephilim diplomats to use the wrong graphic.
-Fixed a bug causing lead hammerhead javelins not to show up at the non-magma advanced metal caster.
-The rituals of power have had the number of reagents reduced from "3 and 8" to "1 and 3."
-Added a "crush stone" reaction to the trash compactor (see that entry for details) as yet another stone sink.
-Plant transmutation now uses six seeds instead of eight random plants - as a result, products will no longer be consumed immediately after being produced when -multiple copies of this reaction are queued.
-Tortoises now cost a more reasonable amount of embark points (this was absurdly low in previous versions).
-Added the "high priest" position (two possible).
-Added the machine shop, a new tier one mechanical workshop (see that entry for details).
-Local legends may now make a single demand.
-Added NO_STONE_STOCKPILE to the template for stones which evaporate on creation (alchemy byproducts, etc).
I love the artwork! I just knew SOMEBODY on bay12 had to be related to Vincent Van Gogh!
Thank you! It's funny, actually. I'm not related to Van Gogh or Da Vinci, but I'm very distantly related to the family (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Medici) that bankrolled the latter. My great, great grandfather had a town in Italy named after him (if I told you which town, you could probably trace my identity, since we kept the family name), and my cousin spent a few years living with a few of the more direct descendants as a result. This is way more information than you probably wanted or needed to know.
Post by: Pan on August 26, 2011, 06:54:38 pm
I love the artwork! I just knew SOMEBODY on bay12 had to be related to Vincent Van Gogh!
Actually, he very specifically told us NOT to expect Van Gogh.
Post by: SirAaronIII on August 26, 2011, 06:57:20 pm
Don't expect Van Gogh hereYup, right here. Also:
FTFYI love the artwork! I just knew SOMEBODY on bay12 had to be related to Vincent Van Gogh!
Actually, she very specifically told us NOT to expect Van Gogh.
Post by: Pan on August 26, 2011, 07:06:41 pm
Don't expect Van Gogh hereYup, right here. Also:FTFYI love the artwork! I just knew SOMEBODY on bay12 had to be related to Vincent Van Gogh!
Actually, she very specifically told us NOT to expect Van Gogh.
No, I'm pretty sure Narhiril's a guy. Don't trust what people put on their profiles...
Post by: Putnam on August 26, 2011, 07:16:14 pm
Don't expect Van Gogh hereYup, right here. Also:FTFYI love the artwork! I just knew SOMEBODY on bay12 had to be related to Vincent Van Gogh!
Actually, she very specifically told us NOT to expect Van Gogh.
No, I'm pretty sure Narhiril's a guy. Don't trust what people put on their profiles...
Awfully untrusting, considering what forum you're on. Besides, it's not like there's no precedent in there being girls on this forum.
Post by: SirAaronIII on August 26, 2011, 07:24:23 pm
Post by: Pan on August 26, 2011, 07:29:50 pm
Don't expect Van Gogh hereYup, right here. Also:FTFYI love the artwork! I just knew SOMEBODY on bay12 had to be related to Vincent Van Gogh!
Actually, she very specifically told us NOT to expect Van Gogh.
No, I'm pretty sure Narhiril's a guy. Don't trust what people put on their profiles...
Awfully untrusting, considering what forum you're on. Besides, it's not like there's no precedent in there being girls on this forum.
Well, the thing is that I've met people who claimed they were girls before, and people who's profile has completely fake info, so I've learned to always leave some space for doubt.
But yeah, I suppose I was a bit more 'untrusting' than 'doubt' here.
Ninja'd:
She (?) said that she (?) was adding a person to the manual for being the first to notice that she (?) was a she (?), so I'll believe her (?) on that.
I lose... :P
Post by: narhiril on August 26, 2011, 08:37:42 pm
Just a little heads up, though. I'm a bit self-conscious (and really, really shy in real life - I type more in my average post than I say out loud in the average day), so all I ask is to please be kind about it. I know I'm not a swimsuit model, I don't need to hear that from any of you guys. If this wasn't bay12, I wouldn't even be offering.
Then, later, I'm going to comb through the creature raws and add some sounds for adventure mode, on TomiTapio's suggestion. Immersion factor is important.
Post by: TehNoob on August 26, 2011, 10:32:51 pm
I'm not scanning any lewd pictures of myself to prove it, especially not for Pan. ;)
Your plan failed, Pan.
(I'm joking... :P)
Post by: Pan on August 27, 2011, 05:10:02 am
I'm not scanning any lewd pictures of myself to prove it, especially not for Pan. ;)
Your plan failed, Pan.
(I'm joking... :P)
Well... you know. I make backup plans for important things like these. :P
Anyway, jokes aside, I did already say I'm convinced ::)
Post by: TehNoob on August 27, 2011, 12:36:37 pm
I'm not a swimsuit model
We'll be the judge of that, Ms Lacking Self Esteem. ;D
Post by: Carn on August 27, 2011, 04:32:16 pm
Post by: narhiril on August 27, 2011, 06:32:04 pm
I wondered how long it would take before this happened.
Longer than usual.
Post by: Pan on August 27, 2011, 06:36:21 pm
I wondered how long it would take before this happened.
Longer than usual.
??? The update?
Post by: narhiril on August 27, 2011, 06:56:56 pm
I wondered how long it would take before this happened.
Longer than usual.
??? The update?
Nah, the update's still on schedule. I think he meant this conversation.
Post by: JimmyBobJr on August 28, 2011, 12:47:29 am
Im reporting back (Quite a bit late) with my first three years of my fort "LostBridges".
A Void Thief showed up, massacared me 4 strong Masterwork Candy gear army, slaughtered about 50 dwarves and exploded.
yeeeeaaah.
Turns out that, upon reading the manual, The Void species are immune to traps. So, therefore, my ~10 Green Serrated Disc traps are useless.
yeeeeaaah. :/
In other news, i am still yet to get a Strange mood or a Forgoten Beast. In three years, i find this strange...
Post by: Pan on August 28, 2011, 02:02:25 am
Anyway, weak military can be solved by using orichalcum and making training dummies and orrery to teach teachers how to teach recruits how to use weapons better.
Post by: JimmyBobJr on August 28, 2011, 08:36:25 am
My military WAS very low skilled but had atleast a pair of Candy HBoots, Candy Plate Body, Candy Greaves and a Candy helm each, as well as either a candy spear or candy longsword. And they failed to even kill one Void.
Hoever, they did manage to cut off its wing.
If my fort survives the inevitable tantrum spiral, ill close off the fort and try to train the military first.
Cheers for the hint about dummys, too.
Post by: JimmyBobJr on August 28, 2011, 08:37:10 am
Post by: JimmyBobJr on August 28, 2011, 08:44:17 am
EDIT:
Turns out that the Void was stabbing my dwarves in the upper arm, sending them flying off in a arc. That explains alot, since they didnt have gloves on.
EDIT 2:
Okay, somethings causing my game to crash whenever i attempt to view the inventory of the Void Thief. For some reason, whenever i go "V-I" to check its inventory, it crashes. Whenever the Void dies and drops its stuff, and i claim it, it crashes. Probably something to do with corrupted item data.
Post by: TehNoob on August 28, 2011, 09:36:09 am
But yeah, the Teacher skill is useful for militia captains to teach their subordinates, so the Orrery is an important tool. Training dummies only train weapons skills, not shield or dodging or other combat skills (a training dummy is a one way battering for the dwarf).
I tried a military trained purely with training dummies. They were gooood at killing, but their lack of defense skills caused them to fall when there were more than one enemy (and voidwalkers causes dizziness with their 'explosions'). So I train the militia captains to a high amount of weapon skills and adequate , them make them teach the recruits weapon skills, so the sparring will increase the combat skills.
I use a combination of cave in traps, lots of archers, and a group of elite coup de grace squad against voidwalkers and bog trolls.
And, I realize I sound like a stalker or something like this, but I'm sure some of us are curious of how you look like, narhiril. You know, put a face to you. (Also, maybe just change your profile pic, if a post is too high profile.)
Post by: narhiril on August 28, 2011, 11:45:27 am
I just noticed something aswell. That Void thief- was armed with a steel razor. a *Steel* razor. Somethings up- perhaps my dwarves forgot to put on pants or something?
EDIT:
Turns out that the Void was stabbing my dwarves in the upper arm, sending them flying off in a arc. That explains alot, since they didnt have gloves on.
EDIT 2:
Okay, somethings causing my game to crash whenever i attempt to view the inventory of the Void Thief. For some reason, whenever i go "V-I" to check its inventory, it crashes. Whenever the Void dies and drops its stuff, and i claim it, it crashes. Probably something to do with corrupted item data.
This (http://bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=3762) is a bug with TTF (TrueType font) that crashes the game if an item's name is too long to fit on the screen. Baughn said that this is fixed in the next version of DF. For now, turn TTF off. I know TTF is pretty, but there's nothing I can do about it.
Post by: TehNoob on August 28, 2011, 05:00:34 pm
Come on, guys. We all treat each other the same way until gender comes up and then everything goes weird. Does it really matter who's got what where?
I'm just curious... :'(
But yeah your right.
Post by: Roses on August 28, 2011, 06:54:42 pm
Post by: Pan on August 28, 2011, 09:13:31 pm
I'm just curious... :'(
And you said I was the one with the plan. :P
Anyway, I think it may be a better idea that we get this topic over with and be back to the mod. Narhiril, is it possible to add sound to the fortress mode as well?
Post by: darkflagrance on August 28, 2011, 09:32:13 pm
I'm just curious... :'(
And you said I was the one with the plan. :P
Anyway, I think it may be a better idea that we get this topic over with and be back to the mod. Narhiril, is it possible to add sound to the fortress mode as well?
I'm pretty sure sound can only be added in the soundsense way: by having an external program watching bits of DF's memory/game log and producing the corresponding sounds.
Post by: trees on August 28, 2011, 09:52:56 pm
Post by: narhiril on August 28, 2011, 10:27:00 pm
While not actual sounds, you can add "vocalizations" to creatures with the SOUND token to be heard in adventure mode. I don't think they do anything in fort mode, though.
This is what I was referring to.
Post by: JimmyBobJr on August 29, 2011, 03:11:53 am
I just noticed something aswell. That Void thief- was armed with a steel razor. a *Steel* razor. Somethings up- perhaps my dwarves forgot to put on pants or something?
EDIT:
Turns out that the Void was stabbing my dwarves in the upper arm, sending them flying off in a arc. That explains alot, since they didnt have gloves on.
EDIT 2:
Okay, somethings causing my game to crash whenever i attempt to view the inventory of the Void Thief. For some reason, whenever i go "V-I" to check its inventory, it crashes. Whenever the Void dies and drops its stuff, and i claim it, it crashes. Probably something to do with corrupted item data.
This (http://bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=3762) is a bug with TTF (TrueType font) that crashes the game if an item's name is too long to fit on the screen. Baughn said that this is fixed in the next version of DF. For now, turn TTF off. I know TTF is pretty, but there's nothing I can do about it.
I have a feeling that this is the problem. Whenever i "V" over the Void to see its inventory, i see items like
"splatter of Asdetsa FocusChant's Voidwalker Blood (Third Finger, Rig-"
Where it cuts out. I presume that this is the problem.
However, ive never heard of TrueType before and i have no idea how to turn it off, or even on. Ill do a little search and report back later.
Oh, and why is everyone trying to find out the gender of Narhiril? ::)
EDIT:
Aha!
That TrueType fixed the problem. It does make the text look... strange, but i assume ill get used to it before long. Its that or not play the game anyway ;D
Killed the void (I just dogpiled it with a bunch of Haulers) and closed off the fort. Noone is getting in or out until i get a military.
Post by: Pan on August 29, 2011, 05:25:00 am
Anyway, voidwalkers... real pain the ass, right? Some tips:
In melee combat, I send in the adamantine clad soldiers first, then the rest when the first group are stunned by a death wail, leaving another group of dwarves in reserve if the battle doesn't go well. See, death wails stun soldiers, so dog piling tons of people on more one voidwalker leaves a dead voidwalker (if your dog pilers manage to kill), alive voidwalker(s), and a group of stunned and vulnerable dwarves. So to prevent that, I hold reserves. And also use animals bursting from cages to let the voidwalkers attack something other than important dwarves helps, although my fort fell once when my sabre tooth tigers and dogs all died. (voidwalker sieges eat through your war animals if you use them like this)
Narhiril cleverly (and don't you be modest about it!) countered the situation where a single dwarf reaves some 50 enemy soldiers when he has superior equipment. (of course, that's either a good or bad thing, depending on your opinion)
Post by: JimmyBobJr on August 29, 2011, 06:47:01 am
In other, unrelated news, a FB showed up.
A Flying, Fire Breating Cave Crocodile with Slate Scales.
Walled off aaaaall the caverns.
But now i have to open the fort again for logs D=
And thanks for the Training Dummy tip- Much qucker than sparing, but also not too quick, like with a danger room...
And i also got two artifacts! A Raw Adamantine Toy Axe (Which is encircled with bands of Raw Adamantine, And Menaces with Raw Adamantine) and a Adamantine Gaunet! (Which, Naturaly, Menaces with spikes of Adamantine and Cave Spider Silk).
So it seems my Artifact drops were just slow!
Post by: Deon on August 29, 2011, 06:58:45 am
Post by: Angus on August 29, 2011, 07:21:13 am
Just off the top of my head: 'Modified Javelin Thrower Spear Bayonet' 'Modified Crossbow Hammerhead' 'Modified Crossbow Bayonet' are components that are used in a reaction that takes a ranged weapon and attaches the modifier component to it, making 'Bayonet Crossbow' (and 'Hammerhead Crossbow', and 'Spear Gun Javelin Thrower').
Although this might cause some material problems, such as attaching an adamantine crossbow with a copper modifier causes the weapon to be made into a copper 'Bayonet Crossbow'.
Also, just to chime in on the current popular discussion topic, I've been following the thread for 2 weeks, an read through the entire thread. I would actually like to see what our benevolent modder looks like. And no, not cuz I'm some horny teenager.
Post by: narhiril on August 29, 2011, 04:56:33 pm
Maybe with medium technology, there could be a 'Ranged Weapon Improvement Lab', where you can produce weapon components that can be used to improve ranged weapon users' survivability if they are ever caught in a melee.
Just off the top of my head: 'Modified Javelin Thrower Spear Bayonet' 'Modified Crossbow Hammerhead' 'Modified Crossbow Bayonet' are components that are used in a reaction that takes a ranged weapon and attaches the modifier component to it, making 'Bayonet Crossbow' (and 'Hammerhead Crossbow', and 'Spear Gun Javelin Thrower').
Although this might cause some material problems, such as attaching an adamantine crossbow with a copper modifier causes the weapon to be made into a copper 'Bayonet Crossbow'.
Also, just to chime in on the current popular discussion topic, I've been following the thread for 2 weeks, an read through the entire thread. I would actually like to see what our benevolent modder looks like. And no, not cuz I'm some horny teenager.
This will likely be another step in the mechanical tech tree, though (as you touched upon yourself) I have not yet been able to reconcile the material issues. What will likely happen here is a workshop that is designed for the assembly of these "composite" weapons, which will use custom reactions with multiple bars rather than individually-forged components.
I am a bit distressed by the implications of this (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=91906.15) thread, as LFR relies very heavily on large numbers of custom reactions for the ritual and mechanical tech trees. What's curious, to me at least, is that LFR seems to already greatly exceed the "limit" mentioned in this thread. Estimates for the "cap" are generally between 250 and 290, but LFR already contains well over 300 (the exact number is around 320) permitted reactions for just the dwarves alone - which makes me wonder if this isn't a building reaction cap rather than an entity reaction cap. Nevertheless, I'd be devastated to be forced to delay or cancel an update because of a technical limitation, so I'm waiting on some sort of official word on this.
Right now the features of 0.14c have not run into this problem, so development is proceeding as normal.
Post by: Pan on August 30, 2011, 01:21:19 am
Post by: Zaerosz on August 30, 2011, 07:03:27 am
Post by: Pan on August 30, 2011, 08:49:54 am
Also, not to rush or anything, but you haven't given up on concept art, right? Cuz the voidwalkers weren't bad at all.
Also, I like Angus' idea. When that gets implemented, my troops will carry javelin throwing spears and crossbows with a BFS attached to it, like a Brute Spiker in Halo. It's almost like the red shirts back in the Napolean days, where they shoot as they advance, then fight with bayonets.
Post by: narhiril on August 30, 2011, 02:57:57 pm
Not sure if this has been mentioned already, but in the female weapon savant entry, it should say [CASTE_PROFESSION_NAME:WEAPONSMITH:weapon prodigy:weapon prodigies] but instead says [CASTE_PROFESSION_NAME:ARMORER:weapon prodigy:weapon prodigies]. And now that I've said that, I'm going to go try this mod for the first time. Certainly looks fun. And Fun.
Good catch, I'll fix this immediately.
Hey Narhiril, 14c will add shrine reactions, right? I mean, I know you'd like to wait till the next version, but I would like to make shrines to have a purpose when I build them. In fact, why not move all the 'greater' type rituals to their respective shrines?
Also, not to rush or anything, but you haven't given up on concept art, right? Cuz the voidwalkers weren't bad at all.
Also, I like Angus' idea. When that gets implemented, my troops will carry javelin throwing spears and crossbows with a BFS attached to it, like a Brute Spiker in Halo. It's almost like the red shirts back in the Napolean days, where they shoot as they advance, then fight with bayonets.
0.14c will add some reactions to the three shrines. The reason I am not moving the greater rituals is because they do not correlate perfectly with the shrine themes (five types of ritual, but only three shrines in tier 2), so I thought it would be more appropriate to leave them at the altar.
Bear in mind that "greater" is a relative term. They certainly have better possible rewards than lesser rituals, but they're still just kicking out items of relatively early-game usage. I don't expect to see anyone carrying a bloodforged club when a (superior) tungsten maul is available. That being said, future advances in the ritual tree will create more lucrative rewards. Expect a reward item from the final tier of the ritual tree to rival the power of ether, hadrine, or voidshard.
So, while it may be called the "greater ritual of power," expect something along the lines of the "ceremonial procession of the martyred" to overshadow it in the future, which may in turn be overshadowed by something like "superior ritual of the encroaching void," which may again be overshadowed by the next tier's "grand invocation of the inevitable tempest."
Note that the exact names of these rituals were just thrown out from the top of my head, and may or may not end up resembling those of actual developments.
The tiers are currently planned out as follows, but some aspects are not yet finalized... (some spoilers present)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Also, expect more concept art over the next few days. :)
Post by: Zaerosz on August 30, 2011, 09:36:59 pm
Post by: narhiril on August 30, 2011, 09:48:02 pm
Another question: for the minor metals of the gods, e.g. clouded crystalline, bloodforged, etc.: are we going to be able to upgrade these in any way, e.g. transmute them into major metals of (god)? Because I was rather excited at getting a -clouded crystalline shamshir- until i looked at the stats and realised it would be about as deadly as a pool noodle.
It's roughly equivalent to a lighter version of iron - a bit better than a pool noodle, but certainly not very useful after a few years or against a stronger enemy.
I had not planned to directly convert these "lesser" weapons to better ones, but the idea behind that is quite doable. A ritual could turn a clouded crystalline shamshir into, say, a translucent crystalline shamshir (roughly equal to steel), and then a radiant crystalline shamshir (roughly equal to damascus steel). This is an interesting concept for a new workshop, and I think I'll play around with it.
Oh, and for the record, bloodforged bolts kick ass. Expect a more direct way to produce them (or something similar) in the future, later tiers.
Post by: Zaerosz on August 30, 2011, 09:54:15 pm
Post by: narhiril on August 30, 2011, 10:42:03 pm
Are they really as strong as iron? The only stats they actually have are density and material value.
They pull most of their properties from a custom template (I think it's RITUAL_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE, just off the top of my head), which is basically copied from iron. The values defined under the individual materials are only needed for when they differ from the template (typically color, name, value, and density).
Post by: Pan on August 30, 2011, 11:01:33 pm
Post by: narhiril on August 30, 2011, 11:19:59 pm
So, narhiril... you're not worried about the limit of custom reactions?
Based on what I've heard recently... not particularly. I'll cross that bridge if I ever come to it, but I'm not even sure there's a bridge to be crossed. While Mephansteras seems to have encountered a legitimate problem, I think, based solely on what he's shared, that it's probably related to him trying to cram too many more reactions into a stock workshop. If there was a hard cap on custom reactions, it seems odd that we'd just be finding out about it now. There are dozens of "mix" mods out there, surely someone else would have stumbled on it before while trying to cram dozens of mods together. Maybe I'm wrong, but I have a hunch that I'm not - and I usually get pretty good hunches.
Development will continue as normal. There's no sense pausing and dealing with a hypothetical issue until I actually run into it - which may not be for some time, if at all. Target date is September 4th, but it may be a day or two early if things go more smoothly than anticipated.
Tonight, I'm working on the soap-producing reaction. I haven't quite gotten it nailed down yet, but I think I'm close.
Post by: Carn on August 30, 2011, 11:59:25 pm
This mod is awesome.
Post by: TehNoob on August 31, 2011, 05:11:56 am
Post by: Angus on August 31, 2011, 08:01:40 am
The Ulbungek (vaguely meaning 'Mule Lizard' in dwarven)
A grazing, hooved large reptilian creature that looks like a rhino, but has many reptilian features (eyes, a frill on it's neck, forked tongue, tail. The head is entirely lizard (think komodo dragon), and the tail of a lizard. The body is scaled). Males have large horns, and both genders have a tusk on the nose. It is prone to rage, but cannot be war trained because of their obstinacy. They require lots of grazing (same as a cow). It lives in caverns, but some have been domesticated by the dwarves (so make a wild and tamed variety). It has a large horn. It can be milked.
This creature can pretty much remove the need for cows, mules and yaks. (not that they had much use in the first place) I also sketched it a little on Paintbrush.app, I'll upload it if you think this is a good idea.
Iron Grub
Another grazer. These creatures appear in caverns, and have a very tough hide. (As hard as bronze/copper/a weak metal, and quite valuable) They could be the lowest of the leather tough creatures of the tech tree you mentioned, narhiril. I would request adding in them shooting rocks (like a magma crab), but I recall a mod 'Slimelands' doing the same, making it seem unoriginal.
Post by: o_O[WTFace] on August 31, 2011, 09:19:19 am
Post by: Pan on August 31, 2011, 03:47:23 pm
Post by: narhiril on August 31, 2011, 09:36:49 pm
Narhiril, it would be nice if you could make a noble position that comes along when a Baron does - HighSepton(Whoops. Been reading too much SoIaF) Priest. He's purely for flavor, and make him able to command a squad of 3 (Plus himself). I would like my high priest to sacrifice some infidel goblin and voidwalkers :P
It's weird that you mention that, high priest was a position I had actually planned to include with this update. I hadn't given them squad command, but it's something I could easily do.
So I noticed weapons and armor still take one bar each to forge. I think this is fixable if you want to, by multiplying all material sizes of weapons and armor by 150. At some point materials were changed to make way for partial bar useage, or something, but the raw values were not increased to account for this. So a breastplate takes 9/150 = 1 bar instead of 450/150 = 3 like it used to.
I typically don't touch stock raws unless I have to. You are free to make this change, but LFR will probably not include it for compatibility purposes.
Creature request, if that's possible or OK with you.
The Ulbungek (vaguely meaning 'Mule Lizard' in dwarven)
A grazing, hooved large reptilian creature that looks like a rhino, but has many reptilian features (eyes, a frill on it's neck, forked tongue, tail. The head is entirely lizard (think komodo dragon), and the tail of a lizard. The body is scaled). Males have large horns, and both genders have a tusk on the nose. It is prone to rage, but cannot be war trained because of their obstinacy. They require lots of grazing (same as a cow). It lives in caverns, but some have been domesticated by the dwarves (so make a wild and tamed variety). It has a large horn. It can be milked.
This creature can pretty much remove the need for cows, mules and yaks. (not that they had much use in the first place) I also sketched it a little on Paintbrush.app, I'll upload it if you think this is a good idea.
Iron Grub
Another grazer. These creatures appear in caverns, and have a very tough hide. (As hard as bronze/copper/a weak metal, and quite valuable) They could be the lowest of the leather tough creatures of the tech tree you mentioned, narhiril. I would request adding in them shooting rocks (like a magma crab), but I recall a mod 'Slimelands' doing the same, making it seem unoriginal.
I'll happily take a look if you upload it.
Post by: Pan on August 31, 2011, 11:15:10 pm
It's weird that you mention that, high priest was a position I had actually planned to include with this update. I hadn't given them squad command, but it's something I could easily do.
Ha! They called me crazy! Those money spent on training telekinesis... worth it!
Anyway, Angus sort had had me thinking about the live stock question - why are we using above ground livestock?
Post by: Carn on August 31, 2011, 11:39:15 pm
Getting giant war trainable animals is pretty much the only reason to trade with elves, besides wood.
Post by: SalmonGod on August 31, 2011, 11:40:50 pm
telekinesis
ahem...
I think you mean telepathy.
Post by: narhiril on August 31, 2011, 11:58:48 pm
telekinesis
ahem...
I think you mean telepathy.
He didn't. My glass of iced tea just moved.
Might have been the dog running into the table again, though (my dog is a moron).
Narhiril, I'll be playing through a game now to get some screenshots for the main page, if that's OK with you. ;D
Sorry I missed this, yes, that's most welcome.
Post by: DaJonkel on September 01, 2011, 12:14:00 am
Can't wait for the next release, allthough I haven't even managed to try all the current thingies yet. (since I'm one of those "oh one tiny thing went wrong, *RESTART*" players)
Post by: Pan on September 01, 2011, 04:31:25 am
telekinesis
ahem...
I think you mean telepathy.
He didn't. My glass of iced tea just moved.
Might have been the dog running into the table again, though (my dog is a moron).
:'( You two...
Why use livestock at all? Grazers, that is. Carnivorous animals have no upkeep. Buy yourself a breeding pair of anything that doesn't graze. Bonus points for them being war trainable. Jam all the babies in one cage until they mature. Grazers are worse in every way than war trainable carnivores. They take up space more space, require healthy grass, don't fight enemies.....
Getting giant war trainable animals is pretty much the only reason to trade with elves, besides wood.
Because firstly, you'll need all the war animals you can get when you use tactics like mine to fight voidwalkers. Secondly, carnivores don't produce milk and fur. And since I use farming overhaul, which lengthens all plant growths, I need my cheese industry going.
Since this mod has kept me up till57 in the morning for the last25 days I'd figured I'd let you know how much I've been enjoying it.
Can't wait for the next release, allthough I haven't even managed to try all the current thingies yet. (since I'm one of those "oh one tiny thing went wrong, *RESTART*" players)
Aye, I'm currently stuck at the fatigue zone as well. Eventually you'll get a fort you like. And when that happens, do share how!
Post by: Carn on September 01, 2011, 05:52:46 am
Then again, I try to embark in areas that are extremely dangerous. I get bored if things aren't actively trying to extinguish the lives of my dwarves. I suppose grazers are more useful for a peaceful simcity fort that tries to cover all the industries for maximum dwarf happiness.
I guess I'm more interested in the survival and defense aspect of DF than the simcity part. Everyone has their favorite playstyle.
Post by: Pan on September 01, 2011, 07:05:22 am
I guess our playstyles just differ. I can't find it in me to care about fancy clothes and many varieties of cheese when trolls and the undead are trying to eat my face.
Then again, I try to embark in areas that are extremely dangerous. I get bored if things aren't actively trying to extinguish the lives of my dwarves. I suppose grazers are more useful for a peaceful simcity fort that tries to cover all the industries for maximum dwarf happiness.
I guess I'm more interested in the survival and defense aspect of DF than the simcity part. Everyone has their favorite playstyle.
Actually, the reason I don't slaughter potential war animals is precisely because of my interest in survival and defense. Hey, the carnivores can kill goblins, and the pastured animals cannot (well, they can. But they'll run away, being all benign). So since I would rather the carnivores be used as cannon fodder, I use livestock. Goats eat very little grass, and a large pasture can substain a reasonable amount of them indefinitely - which is more than enough, since they breed every season. Goat kid bones are as rare as dirt around here. And I wouldn't have to butcher sabre tooth tigers and other war animal that could turn the tide without worrying about decreasing their numbers too much.
Post by: Mistercheif on September 01, 2011, 07:41:39 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
EDIT: Or perhaps its not that much of an easter egg. I just got it again after I regenned the world because I realized that I embarked a 2 squares to the right of where I should have, and I accidentally abandoned...
Post by: narhiril on September 01, 2011, 08:40:43 pm
I just found a pretty cool easter egg with my first world that I found a spot I liked in.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
EDIT: Or perhaps its not that much of an easter egg. I just got it again after I regenned the world because I realized that I embarked a 2 squares to the right of where I should have, and I accidentally abandoned...
*smirk*
You're the first one to mention that. I'm glad you liked it, it's actally pretty uncommon, and its been there for a while. Every update adds at least one new easter egg, some more common than others.
There is an easter egg creature that I have never heard of anyone actually encountering yet, even though it's been there since the first release. The world populations dump assures me that it's out there somewhere, but I wonder how much longer it's going to take for someone to legitimately find one (don't look in the raws, that's cheating ;)).
Post by: Pan on September 01, 2011, 08:55:58 pm
Post by: DaJonkel on September 01, 2011, 10:14:02 pm
Post by: narhiril on September 01, 2011, 11:41:16 pm
Maybe a stupid question, but I can't get bog trolls or lizardmen (and more I suppose looking at the lore) to show up in any of my genned worlds. Are they temporary disabled, or do they require some specific biomes to settle in (that I'm not making due to my heavily changed world gen settings)?
The latter is most likely. They both inhabit a variety of wetlands biomes.
Post by: DaJonkel on September 02, 2011, 02:29:15 pm
I haven't really done a lot of modding, but could it be as simple as changing some [settlebiome:wetlands] variable?
Or would changing them take a lot of work to keep the changes from giving all sorts of errors, as they are tied totally into the "wetlands" by the equipment they use/animals ect.
Post by: 73 on September 02, 2011, 02:32:11 pm
Honestly, this is just pure awesome. I know people have said it before, but this really feels like an extension of the original game. I don't even play vanilla DF anymore. It's just not as fun without adamatine giant forks...
I just wanted to point a few things out:
Back in a fort I had in 0.14a, my legendary weaponsmith created an adamantine mace at the weapons lab. Admittedly, demons were overrunning the fort at the time, so he was probably feeling some pressure, but I think you said somewhere that you had disallowed some possible combinations due to being worthless, like an addy war hammer, and an addy mace doesn't seem much better. I know this is from a earlier version, but I didn't see anything in the notes saying this was modified, so I figured I'd mention it.
Second, the nephilim are really odd when sieging (at least compared to other races I've seen). If they come on mounts, they just mill around randomly. Sometimes they set up camps, other times just wander, kinda like some human sieges. Except that when I charge them with my dwarves, they're still just milling around. They attack if my dwarves are in reach, but if they're even a square out of reach, they don't seem to path toward the dwarf; just random wandering until they decide to run. Because of this, only their archers seem any good at all, and those are weaker than they would be on foot, since they can't fly while mounted.
That, and in 3 years of sieging me 3 seasons out of the year, they almost always wore cloth, even the elites (some had bismuth bronze); no steel, even though they used steel arrows. I suppose I might have just had bad luck.
And it's entirely possible to trade with the nephilim regularly. You just have to abuse the AI pathfinding. Use the Depot Access tool to force all caravans to spawn at one location by building a 5-wide road to the edge of the map, and make sure none of the other map edges are marked Depot accessible. Then build walls along the edges of the road, and build a roof over it to created a tunnel to your Depot. The walls won't be able to get to the edge, but the floor/roof can cover everything. Just be careful that building to the edge doesn't create a valid spawn point on the roof instead.
As long as the AI pathfinding says the road is the quickest map, they won't fly, and will unload their goods like normal. Honestly, though, since they come 3 seasons a year, you need a huge amount of trade goods - those steel goods mean that their caravans are often worth more than everyone else, excluding when the dwarven caravan decides to bring those 20k+ decorated iovium trap pieces.
It's over-complicated and probably not worth it for most people, but it was a nice megaproject to build a tunnel all the way across the map. Of course, you could just build the Depot next to the map edge.
Oh, and I just got the same thing in my embark group like Mistercheif. And I was getting excited about finding something nobody else had mentioned, and then I see that ... Oh well. Anyway, I noticed that he had Proficient Blowgunner and Liar as well as the skills I gave him on the embark screen. Do they just get two random additional skills or something?
Anyway, thanks so much for making this mod! I'm looking forward to the next version!
Post by: astianax on September 02, 2011, 03:47:10 pm
Post by: darkflagrance on September 03, 2011, 04:18:58 am
This mod inspired me to actually get around to creating an account on these forums (which is saying a lot, since I normally stay off forums).
Honestly, this is just pure awesome. I know people have said it before, but this really feels like an extension of the original game. I don't even play vanilla DF anymore. It's just not as fun without adamatine giant forks...
I just wanted to point a few things out:
Back in a fort I had in 0.14a, my legendary weaponsmith created an adamantine mace at the weapons lab. Admittedly, demons were overrunning the fort at the time, so he was probably feeling some pressure, but I think you said somewhere that you had disallowed some possible combinations due to being worthless, like an addy war hammer, and an addy mace doesn't seem much better. I know this is from a earlier version, but I didn't see anything in the notes saying this was modified, so I figured I'd mention it.
Second, the nephilim are really odd when sieging (at least compared to other races I've seen). If they come on mounts, they just mill around randomly. Sometimes they set up camps, other times just wander, kinda like some human sieges. Except that when I charge them with my dwarves, they're still just milling around. They attack if my dwarves are in reach, but if they're even a square out of reach, they don't seem to path toward the dwarf; just random wandering until they decide to run. Because of this, only their archers seem any good at all, and those are weaker than they would be on foot, since they can't fly while mounted.
That, and in 3 years of sieging me 3 seasons out of the year, they almost always wore cloth, even the elites (some had bismuth bronze); no steel, even though they used steel arrows. I suppose I might have just had bad luck.
And it's entirely possible to trade with the nephilim regularly. You just have to abuse the AI pathfinding. Use the Depot Access tool to force all caravans to spawn at one location by building a 5-wide road to the edge of the map, and make sure none of the other map edges are marked Depot accessible. Then build walls along the edges of the road, and build a roof over it to created a tunnel to your Depot. The walls won't be able to get to the edge, but the floor/roof can cover everything. Just be careful that building to the edge doesn't create a valid spawn point on the roof instead.
As long as the AI pathfinding says the road is the quickest map, they won't fly, and will unload their goods like normal. Honestly, though, since they come 3 seasons a year, you need a huge amount of trade goods - those steel goods mean that their caravans are often worth more than everyone else, excluding when the dwarven caravan decides to bring those 20k+ decorated iovium trap pieces.
It's over-complicated and probably not worth it for most people, but it was a nice megaproject to build a tunnel all the way across the map. Of course, you could just build the Depot next to the map edge.
Oh, and I just got the same thing in my embark group like Mistercheif. And I was getting excited about finding something nobody else had mentioned, and then I see that ... Oh well. Anyway, I noticed that he had Proficient Blowgunner and Liar as well as the skills I gave him on the embark screen. Do they just get two random additional skills or something?
Anyway, thanks so much for making this mod! I'm looking forward to the next version!
The problems you're noticing with mounted enemies is probably caused by DF's defective mount AI. Mounted units go where the mount wants to go, not the rider. Often the mounts will refuse to attack and run away from dwarves even if the riders would be belligerent alone.
Post by: narhiril on September 03, 2011, 12:07:56 pm
This mod inspired me to actually get around to creating an account on these forums (which is saying a lot, since I normally stay off forums).
Honestly, this is just pure awesome. I know people have said it before, but this really feels like an extension of the original game. I don't even play vanilla DF anymore. It's just not as fun without adamatine giant forks...
I just wanted to point a few things out:
Back in a fort I had in 0.14a, my legendary weaponsmith created an adamantine mace at the weapons lab. Admittedly, demons were overrunning the fort at the time, so he was probably feeling some pressure, but I think you said somewhere that you had disallowed some possible combinations due to being worthless, like an addy war hammer, and an addy mace doesn't seem much better. I know this is from a earlier version, but I didn't see anything in the notes saying this was modified, so I figured I'd mention it.
Second, the nephilim are really odd when sieging (at least compared to other races I've seen). If they come on mounts, they just mill around randomly. Sometimes they set up camps, other times just wander, kinda like some human sieges. Except that when I charge them with my dwarves, they're still just milling around. They attack if my dwarves are in reach, but if they're even a square out of reach, they don't seem to path toward the dwarf; just random wandering until they decide to run. Because of this, only their archers seem any good at all, and those are weaker than they would be on foot, since they can't fly while mounted.
That, and in 3 years of sieging me 3 seasons out of the year, they almost always wore cloth, even the elites (some had bismuth bronze); no steel, even though they used steel arrows. I suppose I might have just had bad luck.
And it's entirely possible to trade with the nephilim regularly. You just have to abuse the AI pathfinding. Use the Depot Access tool to force all caravans to spawn at one location by building a 5-wide road to the edge of the map, and make sure none of the other map edges are marked Depot accessible. Then build walls along the edges of the road, and build a roof over it to created a tunnel to your Depot. The walls won't be able to get to the edge, but the floor/roof can cover everything. Just be careful that building to the edge doesn't create a valid spawn point on the roof instead.
As long as the AI pathfinding says the road is the quickest map, they won't fly, and will unload their goods like normal. Honestly, though, since they come 3 seasons a year, you need a huge amount of trade goods - those steel goods mean that their caravans are often worth more than everyone else, excluding when the dwarven caravan decides to bring those 20k+ decorated iovium trap pieces.
It's over-complicated and probably not worth it for most people, but it was a nice megaproject to build a tunnel all the way across the map. Of course, you could just build the Depot next to the map edge.
Oh, and I just got the same thing in my embark group like Mistercheif. And I was getting excited about finding something nobody else had mentioned, and then I see that ... Oh well. Anyway, I noticed that he had Proficient Blowgunner and Liar as well as the skills I gave him on the embark screen. Do they just get two random additional skills or something?
Anyway, thanks so much for making this mod! I'm looking forward to the next version!
Liar and blowgunner are additional jokes about Charlie Sheen. Think long and hard about what a blowgun looks like/could be used for. :)
The adamantine mace is a curious development, since maces are not on the list of possible adamantine reaction products for the weapons concept lab. To me, this suggests that the game did not recognize the subtype of the weapon it was told to produce, and then threw it out and used a random weapon. Check your error log for anything along the lines of "unrecogized weapon subtype." If you find something, post it here.
Post by: o_O[WTFace] on September 03, 2011, 01:02:13 pm
Liar and blowgunner are additional jokes about Charlie Sheen. Think long and hard about what a blowgun looks like/could be used for. :)
ahahahah I wondered about that. Anyway I'm having lots of fun. My first fort died to a tantrum spiral that involved goblin lashers and monkeys that stole a masterwork admantine weapon. I like the transmutation experiment stuff and I like how exploring the caverns is more worthwhile with all the goodies you can find.
Post by: Pan on September 03, 2011, 06:14:57 pm
Anyway, how about a list of everything you've added on this update?
Post by: Mistercheif on September 03, 2011, 06:55:47 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
And I've got my alchemists workshops pumping out gold bars so I can build my golden castle!
Post by: TehNoob on September 03, 2011, 06:59:19 pm
Post by: Mistercheif on September 03, 2011, 07:08:33 pm
There's so much hidden stuff in this mod that I'll just assume, if we haven't been told about it, and it sticks out as being funny or slightly out of place, its probably an easter egg.
Post by: narhiril on September 03, 2011, 08:06:47 pm
Narhiril, update's on schedule, right? (tomorrow? Or maybe even 6 hours later during midnight, where it's technically September 3rd?)ON SCHEDULE
Anyway, how about a list of everything you've added on this update?
Pulled from the (new) manual:
Fixed a bug that was preventing transmutation and flashbang zingers' blind effects from working properly. Clutch size for tortoises has been substantially reduced. Excess clutter (gamelog, bmps) has been removed from the pre-packaged version. Fixed a bug causing lead hammerhead javelins not to show up at the non-magma advanced metal caster. The rituals of power have had the number of reagents reduced from "3 and 8" to "1 and 3." Added a "crush stone" reaction to the trash compactor (see that entry for details) as yet another stone sink. Plant transmutation now uses six seeds instead of eight random plants - as a result, products will no longer be consumed immediately after being produced when multiple copies of this reaction are queued. Tortoises now cost a more reasonable amount of embark points (this was absurdly low in previous versions). Added the "high priest" position (two possible). Added the machine shop, a new tier one mechanical workshop (see that entry for details). Local legends may now make a single demand. Added NO_STONE_STOCKPILE to the template for stones which evaporate on creation (alchemy byproducts, etc). All appropriate LFR-related creatures now have sounds associated with them (for adventure mode). Fixed a number of minor bits of erroneous text. High priests and local legends are not duty bound - they can join you in adventure mode (this is intentional). Added rituals and prayer reactions to shrines. Added the first tier two "hybrid" building, the temple of fire, and an associated reaction.
Highlights:
Shrine of Nature
-ritual of nature (takes seeds, produces wooden ammo and potash)
-prayer for amnesty (produces soap)
Shrine of Victory
-ritual of victory (takes body parts and goblets (goblets are preserved), produces anvils)
-prayer for fortitude (produces iron bars)
-create torchbearer gargoyle (takes iron statue, needed to build temple of fire)
Shrine of Prosperity
-ritual of prosperity (takes gold crafts, produces flux)
-prayer for fortune (produces bars of random economic alloys)
-prayer for celebration (requires an empty barrel or pot, can produce a rare alcohol)
Temple of Fire
-prayer for industry (produces flux stone)
---
Rituals consume items to (usually) produce other items. Prayers have no input reagents, but produce their products rarely (it may take a LOT of prayers to get what you want). A few rare, hidden products are sprinkled in for great justice. Tier two rituals and prayers do not currently carry risks of disfavor - this will NOT be true for future tier two rituals.
Post by: Putnam on September 04, 2011, 12:53:01 am
More easter eggs to report. This time its clothing!Spoiler (click to show/hide)
And I've got my alchemists workshops pumping out gold bars so I can build my golden castle!
I'm pretty sure all those clothes show up by default on meowkin, are included in their entity file, and you spawn with them in adventurer.
Post by: narhiril on September 04, 2011, 02:06:50 pm
The good news is that 0.14c is up and should be fully functional.
The bad news is that, due to some real life complications, I haven't tested it as thoroughly as I would have liked. Please report any errors or anomalies so that they can be fixed as soon as possible.
The Temple of Fire is using placeholder artwork (a modified orrery design) right now. Expect this to be revised in the near future.
Post by: 73 on September 04, 2011, 07:59:35 pm
The adamantine mace is a curious development, since maces are not on the list of possible adamantine reaction products for the weapons concept lab. To me, this suggests that the game did not recognize the subtype of the weapon it was told to produce, and then threw it out and used a random weapon. Check your error log for anything along the lines of "unrecogized weapon subtype." If you find something, post it here.Unfortunately, I don't seem to have anything useful in my errorlog; the reclaim attempt I made on that fort and my subsequent adventurer... adventures seem to be all it's got in it at the moment. I suppose that's my fault for not checking to see if anything came up originally. However, I'll build a lab in my current fort and see if I can reproduce it once I strike some addy veins.
Quick question: can alchemy create orialchium bars? I'm asking because I tend to play with the mineral distribution a bit low for the difficulty, which means that the mountainhome usually doesn't have any, and finding it can be a bit hard. I've tried using alchemy, but I haven't been getting any orialchium out of it, so I was wondering if it was actually possible.
And yay, new stuff! *downloads*
Post by: TehNoob on September 04, 2011, 08:42:59 pm
Post by: Pan on September 05, 2011, 02:11:39 am
Post by: The Master on September 05, 2011, 02:29:13 am
So narhiril, not to rush or anything, but when are you planning on the next batch of concept art?she's just one dwarf! Give her time to finish drinking all of the booze in the fortress before asking that kind of stuff! :P
Post by: o_O[WTFace] on September 05, 2011, 04:57:56 am
So narhiril, not to rush or anything, but when are you planning on the next batch of concept art?she's just one dwarf! Give her time to finish drinking all of the booze in the fortress before asking that kind of stuff! :P
And then sleep and then eat and then take a break and then attend a party and then cancel the job due to a groundhog :P
Post by: Pan on September 05, 2011, 05:38:31 am
So narhiril, not to rush or anything, but when are you planning on the next batch of concept art?she's just one dwarf! Give her time to finish drinking all of the booze in the fortress before asking that kind of stuff! :P
And then sleep and then eat and then take a break and then attend a party and then cancel the job due to a groundhog :P
Of course, your not implying narhiril is procrastinating or anything. Your just trying to blunt The Master's point, right? Cuz if so, it's deftly done.
Post by: Mistercheif on September 05, 2011, 09:29:12 am
So narhiril, not to rush or anything, but when are you planning on the next batch of concept art?she's just one dwarf! Give her time to finish drinking all of the booze in the fortress before asking that kind of stuff! :P
And then sleep and then eat and then take a break and then attend a party and then cancel the job due to a groundhog :P
Of course, your not implying narhiril is procrastinating or anything. Your just trying to blunt The Master's point, right? Cuz if so, it's deftly done.
But of course, its impossible to blunt The Master's point because weapon degredation doesn't exist yet! ;D
Post by: superpenut on September 05, 2011, 10:08:56 am
Post by: Pan on September 05, 2011, 10:10:02 am
So narhiril, not to rush or anything, but when are you planning on the next batch of concept art?she's just one dwarf! Give her time to finish drinking all of the booze in the fortress before asking that kind of stuff! :P
And then sleep and then eat and then take a break and then attend a party and then cancel the job due to a groundhog :P
Of course, your not implying narhiril is procrastinating or anything. Your just trying to blunt The Master's point, right? Cuz if so, it's deftly done.
But of course, its impossible to blunt The Master's point because weapon degredation doesn't exist yet! ;D
Well, you blunted it so bad you created weapon degredation.
So anyway, I'll go play LoFR tomorrow. Been kind of playing vanilla, to take a break from my favorite mods.
Post by: superpenut on September 05, 2011, 05:36:47 pm
How do you know or how can you see the results of a sacrifice or alchemy experiment? I see a puff of smoke but can't find a log or anything for the life of me.
Post by: 73 on September 05, 2011, 09:01:49 pm
Unless, of course, the intent is to create lumps of tin to melt down, and I'm just assuming the wrong thing. The grammar just makes me think it's supposed to be a weapon of some sort.
EDIT: Nvm, just realized it's supposed to take 15 plants for the greater ritual of shelter, not 10.
Post by: Pan on September 06, 2011, 02:02:47 am
I am really enjoying this Mod a lot!
How do you know or how can you see the results of a sacrifice or alchemy experiment? I see a puff of smoke but can't find a log or anything for the life of me.
When there's a puff of smoke, it usually means something went wrong. Probably an unhealthy amount of radiation to your alchemist. The smoke has nothing to do with having a result or not. To view what's in a building, press 't' and hover near the workshop.
Quick bug report: My priest, performing the greater ritual of shelter, has created 'tin'. Weight 14, base value 2, description 'This is a tin.' I can provide a screenshot if necessary. I'm assuming it's supposed to be some type of weapon, since he's also been making tin aspises (I have no idea what the plural of aspis is). And no, there's nothing in my error log.
Unless, of course, the intent is to create lumps of tin to melt down, and I'm just assuming the wrong thing. The grammar just makes me think it's supposed to be a weapon of some sort.
EDIT: Nvm, just realized it's supposed to take 15 plants for the greater ritual of shelter, not 10.
What do you mean by the edit? It seems to have no relevance to the rest of the post... ???
Post by: TehNoob on September 07, 2011, 12:22:56 am
Post by: narhiril on September 07, 2011, 07:00:05 pm
Quick bug report: My priest, performing the greater ritual of shelter, has created 'tin'. Weight 14, base value 2, description 'This is a tin.' I can provide a screenshot if necessary. I'm assuming it's supposed to be some type of weapon, since he's also been making tin aspises (I have no idea what the plural of aspis is). And no, there's nothing in my error log.
Unless, of course, the intent is to create lumps of tin to melt down, and I'm just assuming the wrong thing. The grammar just makes me think it's supposed to be a weapon of some sort.
EDIT: Nvm, just realized it's supposed to take 15 plants for the greater ritual of shelter, not 10.
This one took me a while to hunt down. Apparently, the possible byproduct (disfavor of a higher power) of this reaction is actually hot enough to melt tin, resulting in whatever tin aspides are sitting around the workshop momentarily melting and then cooling back into lumps.
Post by: Mistercheif on September 09, 2011, 09:25:20 pm
Is there a way to check its stats?
Post by: SirAaronIII on September 09, 2011, 09:40:13 pm
Post by: 73 on September 09, 2011, 09:58:40 pm
Quick bug report: My priest, performing the greater ritual of shelter, has created 'tin'. Weight 14, base value 2, description 'This is a tin.' I can provide a screenshot if necessary. I'm assuming it's supposed to be some type of weapon, since he's also been making tin aspises (I have no idea what the plural of aspis is). And no, there's nothing in my error log.
Unless, of course, the intent is to create lumps of tin to melt down, and I'm just assuming the wrong thing. The grammar just makes me think it's supposed to be a weapon of some sort.
EDIT: Nvm, just realized it's supposed to take 15 plants for the greater ritual of shelter, not 10.
What do you mean by the edit? It seems to have no relevance to the rest of the post... ???
Woops, I guess I accidentally pasted my edit over the last line rather than under it. I was in a hurry and must not have realized it at the time. As for what I meant, I thought that the ritual of shelter was only supposed to take 10 plants rather than 15, so I thought my dwarf was using too much. Since it wasn't listed in the manual, I didn't realize it was 15 until I got a message when I ran out of plants.
This one took me a while to hunt down. Apparently, the possible byproduct (disfavor of a higher power) of this reaction is actually hot enough to melt tin, resulting in whatever tin aspides are sitting around the workshop momentarily melting and then cooling back into lumps.
*facepalm* I should have realized that... And had a weapon stockpile, too. Sorry for wasting your time.
Also, I wanted to share this... I just got my first voidwalker thief at my newest fortress, on the side of an arctic volcano. My relatively unskilled hunter found her, and immediately broke her spine with a steel bolt (seriously, first move). When the thief tried to flee, she apparently got too close to my slaughter pens I keep outside for livestock, and a pigeon flew up six z levels and attacked her.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Yes, the pigeon just killed a voidwalker matron thief and got a name for it (means Sizzledglens). I only showed the last page of combat reports, but there's 9 pages of the pigeon beating that voidwalker into oblivion without even getting hurt. All the hunter did was break the thief's spine (which made it drop its voidshard razor, probably why pigeon lived) and chip the bone on a leg or so.
I'm not even sure why the voidwalker died at that point; this all happened within under a minute, on multiple z-levels, so I kinda had a hard time keeping up. I suspect the pigeon's high speed made it able to kill the thief so quickly, though.
(And yes, I'm certain it's the pigeon's kill; the hunter doesn't have it listed, and nobody else fought. Plus there's the title and all).
Are pigeons really supposed to be that aggressive? And effective? Or did I just get lucky here?
Post by: Carn on September 10, 2011, 02:50:51 am
Post by: Seriyu on September 10, 2011, 03:18:21 am
Post by: narhiril on September 10, 2011, 12:47:02 pm
Sorry for the recent slowdown in posts, but rest assured that I have not lost any interest - I've simply been very busy at school. I should be able to get some concept art and other stuff done this weekend. :)
Post by: Merijeek on September 11, 2011, 08:03:31 am
Anyway, for some reason none of my alchemy labs will allow me to do "conduct alchemical experiments". Isn't that something with no prerequisites?
Post by: SirAaronIII on September 11, 2011, 12:45:48 pm
Post by: Merijeek on September 11, 2011, 04:28:42 pm
Post by: TehNoob on September 11, 2011, 10:21:04 pm
Probably was out of charcoal at the time. For some reason I forgot they used fuel.
Aye, I also went ' ??? is this a bug' when the 'Conduct alchemy experiment' went red for the non magma version, but still available for the magma one. Forgot it used fuel completely.
Post by: sobriquet on September 12, 2011, 06:55:19 am
LEGENDS OF FORLORN REALMS (LFR)
A v0.14d bug fix version, if needed, will be released as soon as completed.
A major Dwarf Fortress expansion modification for DF 0.31.25 by Narhiril.
NOTE: It is strongly advised that you use a high or very high mineral distribution setting with this mod, as rare metals were balanced for this setting before the option to reduce mineral distribution existed.
You (the dwarves) are not the first people to walk the earth. You are not the largest, not the strongest, not the most advanced or intellegent, and certainly not the most prosperous. What becomes of your race is your doing - will you thrive or will you split into warring sects? Will you make peace with your neighbors or be destroyed by them? Will you adapt and invent, or will you fall behind? Will your people learn from the mistakes of past civilizations, some far more advanced than your own, or will you be doomed to repeat them? Uncover their legends. Discern their secrets. Strike the earth, but be prepared for the earth to strike back.
It is recommended that, if attempting to combine individual elements of different mods, you consult the mod authors.
(http://img.ie/18820.png)
(http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/7919/lfrlizardmen.png)
(http://img545.imageshack.us/img545/9716/lfrmeowkin.png)ScreenshotsOLD, new ones are on the way!Spoiler: Embark (click to show/hide)Spoiler: Alchemy Lab (old screenshot, new reactions have been added) (click to show/hide)Spoiler: A Lizardman Siege (click to show/hide)Spoiler: Alcohol Stocks Screen (click to show/hide)
LFR 0.14c raws only (faster download) (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=4230)
LFR 0.14c Pre-Installed Ironhand Graphics Version (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=4242)
Current version: 0.14c
(ADDED:9/4/11) Version 0.14c Changes
-Fixed a bug that was preventing transmutation and flashbang zingers' blind effects from working properly.
-Clutch size for tortoises has been substantially reduced.
-Excess clutter (gamelog, bmps) has been removed from the pre-packaged version.
-Fixed a bug causing lead hammerhead javelins not to show up at the non-magma advanced metal caster.
-The rituals of power have had the number of reagents reduced from "3 and 8" to "1 and 3."
-Added a "crush stone" reaction to the trash compactor (see that entry for details) as yet another stone sink.
-Plant transmutation now uses six seeds instead of eight random plants - as a result, products will no longer be consumed immediately after being produced when multiple copies of this reaction are queued.
-Tortoises now cost a more reasonable amount of embark points (this was absurdly low in previous versions).
-Added the "high priest" position (two possible).
-Added the machine shop, a new tier one mechanical workshop (see that entry for details).
-Local legends may now make a single demand.
-Added NO_STONE_STOCKPILE to the template for stones which evaporate on creation (alchemy byproducts, etc).
-All appropriate LFR-related creatures now have sounds associated with them (for adventure mode).
-Fixed a number of minor bits of erroneous text.
-High priests and local legends are not duty bound - they can join you in adventure mode (this is intentional).
-Added rituals and prayer reactions to shrines.
-Added the first tier two "hybrid" building, the temple of fire, and an associated reaction.
(ADDED:8/12/11) Version 0.14b Changes
-Fixed a bug causing the dwarven caravan to bring ether bars.
-Changed the name of the reward from the "banshee funeral rite" reaction to avoid confusion.
-Modified the functionality of the "melt etheral spheres" reaction - it is now unlinked, does not require fuel, and is called "process ethereal spheres."
-The above reaction will now produce base-quality "ethereal spheres (processed)" for melting (thanks TehNoob).
-The crystal growth tank now requires two clear glass boxes to construct instead of a barrel (thanks Pan).
-Various lore and manual inconsistencies have been rectified.
Installation instructions included.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
MANIFESTO:
Dwarf Fortress is, in my opinion, best described as an epic tale generator with varying levels of user input. LFR is designed to make each of those tales even more epic.
LFR is about fundamentally raising the stakes of Dwarf Fortress without changing any of the things that make it already so enjoyable. The ultimate goal is that you won't get "bored" anymore. Instead of sitting on a heap of goblin corpses, lauding yourselves and letting your citizens grow fat and old, you'll need to fight for every inch of your legacy. The bog trolls want your stuff. The lizardmen and goblins want you dead. The voidwalkers will do anything to prevent you from reaching their level of technical prowess. Sure, there are the meowkin and nephilim and elves and men who will help you, to varying extents, but to obtain their help, you need to help them get to you. Your race is besieged on all sides by forces larger, more numerous, and more advanced than your own. They will drive you from the earth, or they will drive you deep underground, where even more savage threats lurk. But with this risk comes reward. With desperation comes opportunity. You must hold the deep to hold the surface, and only through constant struggle will you create anything worth engraving on a wall. Even if you somehow prevail, the attacks will continue on all sides until you fall or your computer explodes. Everything you do will feel more important.
Fortification alone will not bring you glory. You fortify to buy yourself time to innovate and advance so that you won't have to fortify anymore. Even if your current dwarves are safe, you cannot interact with the outside world if you shut yourself in a hole, and there is so much more glory to be gained from that interaction. No one will remember you if they don't know you exist. There is so much more glory to be won, so many more legacies to be written. If you're a real dwarf, that's motivation enough.
Dig deeper. Invent. Create. Research. Advance. You must do these things or you will do what countless others have done before you - die in isolation, leaving little more behind than piles of rock and ash. Is it more exciting to read - or, through DF, experience - a story that ends with an impenetrable, but isolated fortification, or the twists and turns, mishaps and breakthroughs of a society that flourishes because it refuses to die even in the face of impossible odds? I don't think I need to put up a poll for that question. Rather than atop the bones of goblins, your civilization will be built with the bones of your heroes who will lay down their lives and legacy for a chance to preserve your race for one more generation. Your graveyard will be littered with memorials to dwarves, each with a different role in the tale.
An alchemist who gave his life to the study of materials, bringing about the discovery of ether.
A swordsman, who took up the first ethereal weapon and held off the forces of the lizardmen council while the unarmed civilians retreated behind the walls to begin the siege.
An engineer, who devised the trapped corridor that would break that siege.
A miner, who struck orichalcum whilst hewing out the trap chamber.
A machinist who took the new metal and created the first training dummy.
An axe master, who trained for years on that training dummy and saved the fortress from a threat from below.
This is all possible with LFR - and I assure you, there is more to come.
---
The mod is designed to...
1 - EXPAND
More creatures, megabeasts, metals, and countless other features.
A combination of original and common high fantasy inspirations, resulting in a new, dynamic world to explore.
2 - ENHANCE
More weapons, armor, and civilizations to trade and war with.
Original graphics for all associated creatures.
The implementation of a "tech tree" style of advancement.
3 - MYSTIFY
Countless hidden features and easter eggs which will not affect gameplay 99 out of 100 times, but are there to be discovered. No playthrough will be the same!
"You have struck raw mithril!"
(http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/5725/lfrtortoise.png)
Notable features:
"With great risk comes great reward."
-Six new civilizations - possibly more down the road.Spoiler: Civilizations (click to show/hide)
-New plants, aimed at filling roles not filled by default plants. This includes...Spoiler: Plants (click to show/hide)
-Nine new metals, including new ores and my previously-released mithril.
-A new, innovative alchemy system.
-A new, innovative "tech tree" system of advancement with two interlocking paths of advancement (mechanical and ritual).
-New clothing, crafts, and armor types to add diversity to new races.
-Tweaks to two-handed weapons to allow dwarves to wield and manufacture some of them.
-A new, powerful, dwarf-exclusive ranged weapon with three types of ammunition.
-New creatures, including ...Spoiler: Creatures (click to show/hide)
-New language files.
-Over sixty new types of weapon.Spoiler: Weapons (click to show/hide)
-Over twenty new buildings, including the alchemy lab, foundry (raws by Kipi), and display case (raws also by Kipi).
-Graphics support for Ironhand and Phoebus graphics packs, and new graphics created specifically for this mod by myself.
-Extensive personally-written lore files.
-An incredibly detailed manual on 90% of new features - I didn't want to give EVERYTHING away ;)
-Modular file structure. If you don't want the graphics, don't include them. If you don't like a new civilization, simply remove them. File names are similar enough to default raws for easy navigation, but different enough to be obvious which files are mod-related.
-This is just a taste of the included features. If you want to learn more, you'll have to learn it yourself. LFR is there to be discovered, not revealed.
Also, as I am very much obsessive-compulsive, expect frequent posts and updates until/unless otherwise stated.
NOTES:
While preliminary bug testing has been done to the best of my ability, some bugs or quirks are to be expected. Please report these to this forum thread, or contact me by email (provided in the manual).
*.*.*
Post by: Putnam on September 12, 2011, 08:35:52 am
Post by: narhiril on September 12, 2011, 02:26:32 pm
Yeah, DFFD is currently down.
That's.... really unfortunate. Sorry about that guys, I'll see if I can find an interim file host. Also, expect more artwork later tonight - some related to an as-yet unreleased civilization that was cut due to balance problems, but will hopefully make it back into the mod as the army arc flushes out.
Cheers!
Post by: Putnam on September 12, 2011, 07:32:38 pm
Post by: Pan on September 13, 2011, 07:49:18 pm
Yeah, DFFD is currently down.
That's.... really unfortunate. Sorry about that guys, I'll see if I can find an interim file host. Also, expect more artwork later tonight - some related to an as-yet unreleased civilization that was cut due to balance problems, but will hopefully make it back into the mod as the army arc flushes out.
Cheers!
Ah. Was curious on how they looked like too. Also, bog troll graphics don't look very threatening, even when I realized the supposed 'fur trim' was their large ass horns, so I would be interested in bog trolls.
Post by: Speakafreak22 on September 14, 2011, 12:10:41 am
Downloading right now, can't wait to try it out!
Post by: Pan on September 14, 2011, 01:27:46 am
Wow this looks amazing.
Downloading right now, can't wait to try it out!
Here's what I always do: Build defenses fast. I mean, at the start of the third year, you should have at least a lock down system, some guys training on training dummy (i bring orihalcum on embark), weapon traps (if that's your thing) and metal armors being assigned. If you like being locked down by a siege, then at least have the drawbridge up. Useless migrants (those who have no skills or physical strengths) gets to be the priests and alchemists.
Post by: Roses on September 14, 2011, 07:02:00 am
Post by: Speakafreak22 on September 14, 2011, 02:55:31 pm
Wow this looks amazing.
Downloading right now, can't wait to try it out!
Here's what I always do: Build defenses fast. I mean, at the start of the third year, you should have at least a lock down system, some guys training on training dummy (i bring orihalcum on embark), weapon traps (if that's your thing) and metal armors being assigned. If you like being locked down by a siege, then at least have the drawbridge up. Useless migrants (those who have no skills or physical strengths) gets to be the priests and alchemists.
Start of the second year... Wow, this mod added A LOT!
I have 2 lines of cage traps up, one swordsdwarf with an iron gladius, iron shield, and full iron plate armor, and a drawbridge system.
Testing out the new buildings now. How do I get the advanced mechanisms? And is orihalcum a rare metal?
Post by: SirAaronIII on September 14, 2011, 05:19:28 pm
Post by: Speakafreak22 on September 14, 2011, 05:38:45 pm
Yes, it's pretty rare. If you're lucky, you can buy it from your civ, but if you can't, then you'll need to wait in the caverns for a special monster.
Ended finding it in my first cavern, so I guess I got pretty lucky.
Still pretty confused with a lot of things with this mod, working them out one by one.
Oh, and do danger rooms still work?
Post by: Pan on September 14, 2011, 07:31:28 pm
Yes, it's pretty rare. If you're lucky, you can buy it from your civ, but if you can't, then you'll need to wait in the caverns for a special monster.
Ended finding it in my first cavern, so I guess I got pretty lucky.
Still pretty confused with a lot of things with this mod, working them out one by one.
Oh, and do danger rooms still work?
Finding orihalcum? Or the special monsters?
Danger rooms still work. Vanilla things all still apply. Anything in vanilla will work in the mod.
Post by: 73 on September 15, 2011, 06:07:33 pm
Stockpiles. Dwarves are unwilling to stockpile the following:
-Insulated buckets/barrels (though they will use them fine, and filled barrels are still used in food stockpiles)
-liberator's aspises or branches of thorns. They will stockpile tin aspises, however.
-phantasmal statues
-clouded crystalline shamshirs
-Bloodforged bolts
Fishing:
-Fish show up as a ? on a red background, like a corpse (when carried; when on the ground it's a red ? on a grey background). Not sure if that's intentional or not.
-Dwarves don't want to stockpile fish. They'll eat the fish, but they won't put it in a food stockpile. It won't even be moved from the fish pond unless you have a fishery, in which case it will just sit there until eaten. Whether or not they'll rot and produce miasma because of this I'm not sure.
-This may be just me, but it seems to take a much longer time to catch fish in the pond than it did in a river. I'm just going on memory, though, since I don't have any fishable water on my current embark; I'm probably just imagining it.
Machine Shop:
-The machine shop will use clay if it's the closest available stone. I have no idea if this is intentional or not. However, any clay bins and beds created won't be placed in a furniture stockpile.
Basically, everything works... my dwarves just don't want to organize things. And yes, I have a stockpile of every type, excluding stone and a block stockpile.
Also, nephilim diplomats will dodge into midair or the like, and then get stuck there because they can't path to my baron or whoever they want to see, and eventually leave unhappy. I'm guessing that's just flying creature pathing and it can't be adjusted, though.
I've also had a pegasus the nephilim brought me out in the snow for several months, and it doesn't seem to have gotten hungry. Are they not grazers?
Post by: Pan on September 15, 2011, 08:19:45 pm
Post by: astianax on September 15, 2011, 10:01:50 pm
Post by: 73 on September 15, 2011, 10:55:32 pm
My priest was performing the greater ritual of power. Been injured before, but never actually anything permanent. This time, I see an explosion, get a cancel message about injury, and see the dwarf take exactly 4 steps.
Then he bled to death. Seconds from the explosion. I've seen dwarves immersed in magma live longer than that...
Post by: narhiril on September 16, 2011, 03:49:03 pm
Holy... remind me never to annoy Armok. Ever.
My priest was performing the greater ritual of power. Been injured before, but never actually anything permanent. This time, I see an explosion, get a cancel message about injury, and see the dwarf take exactly 4 steps.
Then he bled to death. Seconds from the explosion. I've seen dwarves immersed in magma live longer than that...
Thanks for that, I had no confirmation up to this point that this particular syndrome was actually working properly. It's very rare, so it never showed up in my tests. Yes, Armok has a sick sense of humor. Expect more horrible possibilities to come further along in the ritual tree - there are, after all, fates worse than a quick (if messy) death.
on the pegasus, yeah, they were made before the grazing came in. since they were a pre existing creature but not from vanilla (or her own mod, just borrowed, with permission) quite easy to slip through the cracks during updates. prob'ly set 'em similar to the unicorn, that's what i wound up doing. also took deon's idea from genesis and made both unicorns and pegasoi (i think that's supposed to be the proper plural?) milkable and 'cheesabe' which is really nice when you get breeding stock of both going
That's exactly what happened - they're leftover from an older build of DF. I will give them an appropriate graze value in the next update for those who are not making their own modifications (in your case, you'll likely want to replace that particular file in the next release with your own version).
Here's a few things I've noticed while playing my fort a bit more:
Stockpiles. Dwarves are unwilling to stockpile the following:
-Insulated buckets/barrels (though they will use them fine, and filled barrels are still used in food stockpiles)
-liberator's aspises or branches of thorns. They will stockpile tin aspises, however.
-phantasmal statues
-clouded crystalline shamshirs
-Bloodforged bolts
Fishing:
-Fish show up as a ? on a red background, like a corpse (when carried; when on the ground it's a red ? on a grey background). Not sure if that's intentional or not.
-Dwarves don't want to stockpile fish. They'll eat the fish, but they won't put it in a food stockpile. It won't even be moved from the fish pond unless you have a fishery, in which case it will just sit there until eaten. Whether or not they'll rot and produce miasma because of this I'm not sure.
-This may be just me, but it seems to take a much longer time to catch fish in the pond than it did in a river. I'm just going on memory, though, since I don't have any fishable water on my current embark; I'm probably just imagining it.
Machine Shop:
-The machine shop will use clay if it's the closest available stone. I have no idea if this is intentional or not. However, any clay bins and beds created won't be placed in a furniture stockpile.
Basically, everything works... my dwarves just don't want to organize things. And yes, I have a stockpile of every type, excluding stone and a block stockpile.
Also, nephilim diplomats will dodge into midair or the like, and then get stuck there because they can't path to my baron or whoever they want to see, and eventually leave unhappy. I'm guessing that's just flying creature pathing and it can't be adjusted, though.
I've also had a pegasus the nephilim brought me out in the snow for several months, and it doesn't seem to have gotten hungry. Are they not grazers?
Let me try to hit these one at a time.
The stockpile issues are coming from the technical aspects of how "god metals" currently work. I elected to use a modified stone template for these "metals" to prevent them from having full metal functionality (melting and preferences), but this seems to have created some unintended side effects with stockpiling, as there isn't a category for "stone ammunition" or the like. Dwarves will currently use bloodforged bolts (to devastating effect), but will not pick them up afterwards. I need to comb through the wiki and raws to see if there is any way that I can get around this problem - perhaps making them use a wood or even an organic template instead (purely from a technical standpoint - the material properties will be the same). Tin aspides are being stockpiled because tin is a stock metal, not one of these "stone-metal" hybrids that I used for ritual materials.
Fishing. Ugh. I have noticed this as well. The "speed" issue is something that I can easily tweak just by playing with probability numbers, but the generic "fish" products are a bit more complicated. Namely, I don't have a clue how to make them name and stockpile properly. They're produced as FISH_RAW items with the materials set as muscle materials from different fish creatures, which is why dwarves will eat them (and why the "big catch" products are higher value), but despite this specification, the product is still showing up as "fish" and not stockpiling properly. I'll go ahead and tack this up as a "known issue" while I try to find a suitable solution.
The machine shop using clay is an oversight. I will disallow absorbent reagents in those reactions for the next version, which should have no effect on any stone but the several types of clay.
I cannot fix DF's buggy flying creature pathing, unfortunately, so the nephilim diplomat is going to do that from time to time.
If its any consolation, their sieges are wicked fun. I had an epic battle between my army of 33 bronze and mithril-clad dwarves and their army (which, to my surprise, was actually led by their legatus) in the most recent test fortress. I have a picture of the battle, during which my steel razor-wielding champion racked up fifteen kills and my baron took an arrow to the head after wading into the fray with his *iovium pair of knuckles*. It was unfortunate, for he was a good and just baron, but I did at least get the knuckles back, and his tomb of gold furnishings will stand for many a century.
--
On a related, but different note, I sincerely apologize for the delay in concept art. I have had a nightmare of a week, getting home from school after midnight every day so far. I have a number of good pieces to post, but I have been so tired that I have fallen asleep every night without remembering to scan them first (doesn't help that my scanner is at the foot of my bed). The few hours I have been able to put into LFR have been mostly without fanfare - trying to track down and fix issues, anomalies, and revising minute details. Thanks to you guys, I have a bunch more of those to pin down for this coming weekend - and I mean that sincerely. It is much less work for me to target issues that you guys report than for me to have to comb through and find them myself - as they say, sometimes the author is blind to the flaws in his (or her, in my case) creation.
I have also planned out the most extensive and complex easter egg thus far, and the logistics of this are not something I wish to share at this time beyond the fact that it is requiring a new template for some materials planned to be used in very late game mechanical/ritual hybrid technologies. I had to actually write and debug it sooner or later, but its one of those things where I don't have anything wonderfully exciting or spectacular to show for my work thus far. It involves a new, "rare caste" of an existing creature, but takes it to a level of complexity that I have never done before, and I want you guys to stumble upon it rather than listen to me blab about it. If you're using the raw-only release, you'll probably notice that one of the creature files has nearly doubled in size in this next version - the bulk of this content corresponding to a single caste of a single creature. Trust me, when it works, it will be something beautiful to behold.
Post by: 73 on September 19, 2011, 04:34:42 pm
Anyway, there's a few more issues I've run into, several of which were a bit of a pain to find because they involved fighting off 2 voidwalker squads, 4 goblin squads, 2 lizardman squads, 6 - 8 goblin/lizard theives, and another 6 voidwalker theives (who did more damage than everyone else combined). At the same time. Just so I could trade.
This mod can be so hardcore sometimes.
I had one of my soldiers, who had occasionally served as a priest, diagnosed with 'divine displeasure' after he had a disagreement with some voidwalkers and their shiny weapons. However, there was no medical signature for this diagnosis, and I'm not sure if it actually did anything; I haven't had anyone die out of combat or complain of injuries. Then again, said dwarf might have been killed later on by the rest of the enemies rampaging around.
Also, I'm not quite certain that my previously-reported priest's death was due to the ritual itself anymore, because after examining the circumstances a bit, I realized he was also a member of the militia and had grabbed a voidshard shield from one of the ambushes the nephilim killed for me. So I suspect that it may have actually been the voidshard exploding at a high temperature due to the ritual failing. Would that actually be hot enough to trigger voidshard exploding?
Voidwalker thieves behave oddly, which I think is due to their building destroyer abilities. Namely, I had one run straight through my entire military, completely ignoring the beating it received, to travel another 30 squares or so to start trying to kill a door. It seems like half the time when discovered they immediately attack, and the other half they ignore everyone until they find a building. Heck, I've never even had them steal anything, despite the tons of loot from all the dead lying outside that I can't be bothered to clean up.
I've also realized that I've got some ethereal spheres from alchemy. I've never had any before, so they're definitely rare, but I think 24,000 dwarfbucks might be excessive for masterwork spheres. I could buy out a caravan with a few of those.
Also, after you confirmed that the machine shop isn't supposed to use clay, I went and tested my alchemy lab. It tends to use clay too.
Lustrum extraction also trains alchemy absurdly fast (probably due to the number of products), especially when compared with alchemy's normally slow speed, since it requires so many regents. In addition, it doesn't actually seem to have a harmful byproduct - sure, there are explosions, and people go rest in the hospital and leave a few squares of blood spatters, but they have no injuries listed, return to work immediately after being diagnosed, and can be left in bed for half a year (lazy doctors) without any ill effects.
Courage oak may also be overpriced, as a masterwork crutch is worth 1440, versus the 120 or so for normal wood. Dunno if that also effects the other ritual wood; I don't have any handy at the moment.
Also, not really sure if I should mention this or not, since the pegasoi aren't actually your creation, but they can apparently grapple with their wings, which has produced some odd combat logs (it's actually fairly effective, too).
Post by: astianax on September 19, 2011, 07:09:25 pm
and yes, color me interested in the new easter eggs, as well...
Post by: narhiril on September 19, 2011, 11:55:47 pm
I had one of my soldiers, who had occasionally served as a priest, diagnosed with 'divine displeasure' after he had a disagreement with some voidwalkers and their shiny weapons. However, there was no medical signature for this diagnosis, and I'm not sure if it actually did anything; I haven't had anyone die out of combat or complain of injuries. Then again, said dwarf might have been killed later on by the rest of the enemies rampaging around.
Also, I'm not quite certain that my previously-reported priest's death was due to the ritual itself anymore, because after examining the circumstances a bit, I realized he was also a member of the militia and had grabbed a voidshard shield from one of the ambushes the nephilim killed for me. So I suspect that it may have actually been the voidshard exploding at a high temperature due to the ritual failing. Would that actually be hot enough to trigger voidshard exploding?
"Divine displeasure" is a byproduct of rituals. It causes intense pain for a reasonably short amount of time.
And yes, looking at the values, it is actually possible that the voidshard bastion exploded, causing its syndrome. Armok's displeasure causes brief (but severe) bleeding from every orifice, but it seems highly unlikely that this would be enough to kill a dwarf, especially before he even left the vicinity of the altar. That sounds an awful lot like voidshard's effect, so I'm guessing that's probably what happened.
Addressing other issues and concerns - the alchemy lab is supposed to be able to use clay. Pricing issues are related to material values - masterwork ethereal and courage oak pieces are going to be worth more because their materials are worth more. A masterwork ethereal sphere is quite a lucky find, and will be an amazing item to trade or use for a display case.
Lustrum extraction is not meant to be as much hazardous as it is inconvenient. The syndrome slows down production and causes a mess, which is exactly what it's supposed to do. Occasionally, a dwarf may catch a fever, which has a more lingering slowdown effect.
--
The difficulty level of this mod is admittedly quite high at the moment, especially if you are playing in proximity of all possible civilizations. Unfortunately, the plans I have for lightening the burden will not come to fruition under the current version of DF. Later ritual and mechanical advances will be made possible with the next version, allowing for things such as improved war creatures, physically augmented warriors, and more diverse weapons of war which will help tip the scales a bit more in your favor.
Much further down the road, I would like to override the procedural conflict generator and manually set relations between hostile races, which will cause some interesting dynamics (siege armies fighting each other as well as your armies) and should lighten the burden of ambushes on your trade routes. Unfortunately, I do not know when or if this will become possible - probably no earlier than the army arc, which is the next planned major development for DF after the "caravan arc" (in other words, it may be quite some time).
For those of you who appreciate the difficulty and fear that the mod is becoming "dumbed down," you'll find that none of these advances or weapons mentioned will be easy to come by. For those of you that fear that the concept of more dynamic conflicts will make defense much easier, I still have a full new hostile race that has not even been implemented yet simply because they would break the game without this in-fighting mechanic (they would wipe out almost everyone else in legends).
---
Other news, which I thought might intrigue a few of you. Using tentative information about the upcoming Dwarf Fortress update, I have sketched out a method for making fragmented zingers work a lot more effectively.
Fragmented zingers will be given a subcutaneous tissue layer called "trigger fluid." When the skin is broken, the trigger fluid leaks out. Inevitably, some of this trigger fluid gets on the zinger itself, carrying a contact syndrome that changes the fragmented zinger into a "detonating zinger." The detonating zinger carries an undirected dust breath attack - killing itself, causing cave-in knockback, and spreading "bone splinters" which carry a contact bleeding effect. This change will likely have the following effects...
1) Fragmented zingers will be much, MUCH more dangerous, and a much more useful tool in a dwarven arsenal.
2) Instantly lethal wounds will kill the zinger before it can transform and detonate itself - a "dud" effect.
3) Blasts will cause cave-in knockback.
4) The slightest impact, just enough to break the skin, can cause the zinger to detonate. Dwarves using these as weapons must be excessively careful.
But don't get too excited just yet. This change is not currently possible due to the inability of a syndrome to change a creature - a problem which will hopefully be rectified very shortly. However, I wanted to give you a little taste of some of the plans I have for the new features.
Post by: Pan on September 20, 2011, 06:11:44 am
Post by: G-Flex on September 20, 2011, 06:16:12 am
Post by: astianax on September 20, 2011, 10:50:21 am
also, while a lot of people believe that damascus steel is named after the city, that may not be the case. some cite it being named after a swordsmith (damashqui) and some cite it as being named after the patterns in the steel being similar to those found in damask fabrics
so, while damashqui isn't a name any of the races will pick (currently...easily fixed, if one intends to) and damask isn't one of the types of cloth we can use (again, easily fixed, if one wanted) they'd both work quite well for the item being named after them and keeping the same name as its rl counterpart. heck, we could even say the ancient civilization discovered the technique before fading into obscurity was called damascus, itself
Post by: 73 on September 20, 2011, 04:58:22 pm
I guess that syndrome is lethal after all.
Post by: narhiril on September 20, 2011, 11:44:40 pm
Hate to bother you like this, but when's the concept art going to be scanned?
You're not bothering me. I'll have it up tomorrow, promise :)
Post by: astianax on September 21, 2011, 10:07:19 pm
odd, odd migrants, for deciding those were favorites of theirs
in other news, i'm almost giddy at toady's mention of books for the upcoming release. whenever it gets here
Post by: The Master on September 21, 2011, 11:25:46 pm
*taps foot importantly while munching on !!prepared titan intestines!!*Hate to bother you like this, but when's the concept art going to be scanned?
You're not bothering me. I'll have it up tomorrow, promise :)
Post by: narhiril on September 23, 2011, 01:59:08 am
Enjoy some art... and some insight into LFR's future.
Spoiler: shedim 1 (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: shedim 2 (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: a carbuncle (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: ritualistic symbols (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: early divine being concept (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: minor divine being of Armok (click to show/hide)
Post by: GaxkangtheUnbound on September 25, 2011, 01:29:04 pm
Post by: narhiril on September 26, 2011, 02:13:13 pm
This is exactly the type of mod I've been looking for. I already have several other versions of DF, and the tech tree advertised by LFR really encourages me to give it a try.
I don't mean to be an ass, but I, at least, find it pretty entertaining. Expect wonderful things in the future. The words "rite of ascension" don't mean much now, but they will in 0.15. I hope you enjoy it as much as I have.
--WARNING:WALL OF TEXT WITH OCCASIONAL LINE BREAKS FOR GOOD MEASURE---
So I've got most of the issues sorted out now, including that annoying bug with the fishing pond. I'm getting ready to put it together and package it, but I want to comb through for any last minute additions or changes - specifically, I want to know if the soap from the shrines is working properly. This should be a fairly easy thing to test, but I just haven't gotten around to it yet. I'll post a full running change log when I get home later. An exciting new easter egg is also being introduced in this version - I don't want to spoil too much, but so that you know what to look for, it involves a new, rare caste of one of LFR's current domestic creatures.
I also read an interesting investigative report (can't be bothered to dig up the thread right now) on items pertaining to frame rate. Apparently, clothing items cause large amounts of latency, likely relating to the game trying to keep track of the exact wear state of thousands of these items with no apparent way to get rid of them (other than dumping them on caravans or in magma - which is exceedingly labor-intensive). I'm looking into ways to optimize this, especially since I know and admit that LFR's extra races bring an abnormally high number of already excessive clothing into embark areas. Besides the frame rate benefits, I think that having a lot less mundane clothing items eating up space, processing power, and hauler tasks would be an idea that at least some of the community would welcome.
There was talk earlier in this thread about a "plug-in" mod for LFR, which would change all of the civilizations (LFR and stock) over to using vastly simplified clothing - as simple as one or two pieces per race. I realize that this would have a negative impact on some players' preferences, especially in adventure mode, so this will never be a mandatory component of LFR and will likely be updated alongside the main mod. However, I believe that this change could significantly improve the experience for some folks, myself included, without needing to remove any of the absurd trademarks of DF - artifact socks, for instance. There would be no pressing need for me to remove stock articles of clothing from the raws, but rather to exclude them from the entity files. Similar to mood weapons (but a little bit more random), these articles of clothing would still be produced in strange moods, but basic clothing would consist of only one or two possible options for each civilization. I'm thinking something along the lines of "Dwarven work clothes," "Lizardman rags," and "Nephal togas."
The idea behind this plug in is to allow for more combat and less cleanup. For those of you who want to lead your armies into battle with the invaders and have their corpses enshrined without having to wait for the 400 *cave spider silk mittens* to be hauled inside, or for those of you who do not need said mittens cluttering up your screen and processor, this plug in will probably benefit you. For those of you who enjoy Dwarf Fortress the way it is, with full clothing options, you'll be happy to know that LFR will run just fine without this optional component.
A beta version of the LFR "simplified clothing" mod will likely be released shortly after the next bug fix version, which I am tentatively calling 0.14d. I will post the link on the front page when this becomes available for download.
Post by: Putnam on September 26, 2011, 05:03:59 pm
You know what that means, right?
:3
Spoiler: for those not in the know (click to show/hide)
Post by: Carn on September 26, 2011, 05:47:29 pm
A beta version of the LFR "simplified clothing" mod will likely be released shortly after the next bug fix version
I am so very excited about this. I normally just let my dwarves run about naked anyway. Clothes don't provide enough of a concrete benefit (like reducing unhappiness from weather, or effects of heat / cold) for me to bother with them. They were always just an irritation.
Post by: Pan on September 26, 2011, 07:30:16 pm
So we're waiting for the next major DF update before anything big on LFR will be released?
Post by: narhiril on September 26, 2011, 09:11:39 pm
Too bad ethereal weapons only damage a select few with their special effects. But I like that too!
So we're waiting for the next major DF update before anything big on LFR will be released?
The initial syndrome given to ethereal weapons (the one that doesn't currently work) will likely be heavily revised, so expect it to carry a syndrome, but the effects and target creatures are subject to change.
As for the second bit - I would say it's unknown - it all depends on when that is. I'm going to fix whatever issues I can with 0.14d, then try to get that simplified clothing mod up and running. If it's not looking like the release is imminent by that point, I'll start with whatever is possible for me to implement with the current version, including some framework (building raws, creature raws for currently nonexistent creatures, etc) for later developments. I know what I'd like to do with 0.15, but if DF hasn't gotten there yet, I'll find something else to work on in the interim. Maybe I'll go ahead and finish the shedim as another plug-in mod.
Expect a release of 0.14d in the next week or two (latest), as I finish up some streamlining and testing on the new changes. Shortly thereafter, LFR-SC (simplified clothing) will be posted as a test raw download in the usual location. The version numbers for that will likely be along the lines of "0.14d SC." Depending on how that goes, I will revise it as needed. I haven't really planned out the schedule beyond that point - I find that it's a good idea to leave room for unexpected problems or inclusions.
In short, LFR eagerly awaits the new version of Toady's masterpiece to fiddle with and show off new features, but if push comes to shove, LFR's development will not stop during that waiting period - though focus will be temporarily shifted to fixes, tweaks, easter eggs, and plug-in components, with workable new features added as they are completed.
Also, new poll.
Post by: narhiril on September 27, 2011, 11:52:09 pm
Spoiler: Taken immediately after embark (click to show/hide)
This plug-in might be ready a bit ahead of schedule. 0.14d is waiting on completion and testing of a few final inclusions.
Post by: darkflagrance on September 28, 2011, 12:26:10 am
Just thought I'd note this in case it was useful.
Post by: Putnam on September 28, 2011, 12:31:38 am
Things have been going a little bit faster than expected...Spoiler: Taken immediately after embark (click to show/hide)
This plug-in might be ready a bit ahead of schedule. 0.14d is waiting on completion and testing of a few final inclusions.
I don't know, seeing nothing on the lower body makes me think of nekkid dorfs
Post by: darkflagrance on September 28, 2011, 12:35:15 am
Things have been going a little bit faster than expected...Spoiler: Taken immediately after embark (click to show/hide)
This plug-in might be ready a bit ahead of schedule. 0.14d is waiting on completion and testing of a few final inclusions.
I don't know, seeing nothing on the lower body makes me think of nekkid dorfs
But think! Adding pants DOUBLES the amount of trash wore by dwarves and foes alike. Giving them underwear makes a total of THREE TIMES the amount of useless fabric to deal with in the aftermath of a siege. Three times the hauling time, three times the lag, three times the forbidding and dumping etc.
Besides, going commando is Dwarfy ;)
Post by: narhiril on September 28, 2011, 01:29:09 am
I'm play testing the first version of this right now alongside another 0.14d test build, and I have to admit, even before frame rate has become an issue, there seems to be oh so much less clutter, which I'm REALLY liking.
I should be able to have some sort of playable test version up by the end of the work week, for anyone who is interested.
Post by: SalmonGod on September 28, 2011, 02:06:00 am
Post by: Demiurge on September 28, 2011, 03:30:37 am
Post by: narhiril on September 28, 2011, 10:51:58 am
This mod is amazing, I'm really being punished for my usual slow pace with those sieges. Whats a good mineral scarcity value to use? I made a world with a 3800 value and my embark area had nothing but gold and silver hills but at 5000 there's nothing outwards and I'm a bit hesitant to get invested if there's nothing to use.
It's designed for the highest possible mineral distribution setting - "rare" metals in LFR (orichalcum, mithril, iovium) were tested and balanced using this setting. Prior to 0.31.19, there were no other settings at all. Rest assured, things are quite difficult even with abundant metal. A typical 4x4 embark with these settings will have a few hundred to a few thousand orichalcum tiles, which is the intended rarity. Non-volcanic maps will typically have just a few hundred mithril or iovium tiles (volcanic maps may have much more abundant mithril).
Voidwalkers, Meowkin, and Nephilim do not need to mine to generate their equipment, so you'll need all the help you can get. :)
For advanced world gen, I am not sure on the exact values of the preset mineral distributions, but I will plug in a few values and see if I can approximate it. I would guess that it is around 1000, possibly a little lower.
Post by: 73 on September 30, 2011, 10:59:50 pm
Anyway, I'm very happy with the idea of a reduced-clothing mod; my computer's not great as is, and the constant sieges drop clothing faster than I can get rid of it. I'd love to not have to worry about all that clutter.
Also, in my first post on this thread, I reported an adamantine mace from the weapons concept lab... I don't expect anyone to remember, considering how long it was ago. But I finally got around to getting some more testing, and I've gotten another addy mace.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Apologies for the crappy screenshot.
This came up within my first 20 reactions. There's nothing in my error log aside from pathing fails, either. I've done nothing with my raws aside from run the no exotics program, since the dungeon master doesn't work.
On an unrelated note, I recently pierced the caverns and have black squares of widow's tear everywhere. Your notes say that was fixed in 13a, I believe, so I thought I'd mention it was still an issue (I'm using the pre-installed graphics version).
Post by: narhiril on September 30, 2011, 11:31:10 pm
Post by: Demiurge on October 01, 2011, 06:49:51 am
I'm having a great time with this mod, lots of fun things to play around with and a great thing to come back to the game with after 6 months. I'm still having a hell of a time finding a good embark spot though, maybe its because I'm using perfect world generator and I just don't know how to create a good layer spread but I always end up with maps with no more than 3-4 minerals.
Post by: 73 on October 01, 2011, 06:01:58 pm
[PRODUCT:2:1:WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_LABRYS:GET_MATERIAL_FROM_REAGENT:A:NONE]
You don't have any weapon under ITEM_WEAPON_LABRYS. You've got it as [ITEM_WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_AXE_LABRYS].
Unrelated to that, I've been getting figurines and engravings of masterful slabs of accreditation. I guess it was an exceptionally productive training session?
Post by: narhiril on October 01, 2011, 07:20:58 pm
After doing 60 test reactions or so and recording the results, I was able to narrow down the weapons I wasn't getting, and I think I've found the problem:
[PRODUCT:2:1:WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_LABRYS:GET_MATERIAL_FROM_REAGENT:A:NONE]
You don't have any weapon under ITEM_WEAPON_LABRYS. You've got it as [ITEM_WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_AXE_LABRYS].
Unrelated to that, I've been getting figurines and engravings of masterful slabs of accreditation. I guess it was an exceptionally productive training session?
That was indeed the problem. Thanks for going out of your way to hunt that down for me, I'll get it fixed immediately.
Also, lol @ the engravings of masterful slabs. That's not intended, but I think I'll leave it in just because it seems like an awfully dwarfy thing to engrave.
---
A beta version of LFR-SC is now available at DFFD, where the zinger test raws used to be. Pick it up off the test raw link from the front page, or just click here. (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=4637) To install, simply drag the contents of the "objects" folder into your DF/raw/objects directory and generate a new world. As this is a preliminary release, you may want to back up your existing entity raws beforehand - I have not run into any issues testing LFR-SC thus far, but it never hurts to be safe.
Post by: Plutoman on October 03, 2011, 05:37:04 pm
Thanks!
Post by: 73 on October 08, 2011, 04:41:41 pm
I genned a fairly small world with only 1 cavern layer, min history, 500 mineral distribution, all races, and embarked on a haunted tropical biome. No major problems; dug down to magma and got addy armor before year two.
I did notice that there tended to be a lot of black squares of 'dead' shrubs around - evidently some type of the new plants doesn't die well, but I'm not sure which one.
Anyway, everything went fairly well for a year or two. I did note that, in a change from the usual system where only hunters wear leather clothes by default, the leather/cloth distribution for my dwarves tended to be random. Also, none of the traders ever brought any type of clothes, from any race, even their own; was rather odd for the elves, since it meant that the majority of their goods were actually wooden crafts rather than clothing.
I maintained 100+ FPS through almost the entire second year, when it normally doesn't last past the third migrant wave or so; it's definitely a LOT faster.
I was especially grateful after I got the largest ambush I've ever seen in year three, with 4 squads each of goblins, bog trolls, and lizardmen, as well as 15+ theives, at the same time. That would have been impossible to clean up after without the reduced clothing.
My military is also extolling the virtues of adamantine great helms. I have yet to see anything that can even graze them. My militia commander survived 20+ pages of being stabbed in the head by several squads of goblins while unconscious, and even voidwalker thieves' voidshard razors (which I assume are the most effective weapon that any enemy can wield, considering how knives and similar weapons are overpowered) glance off harmlessly. I'll have to test them against the clowns, but so far they're making my military practically invincible.
I also actually constructed the temple of fire this time around; first time doing that. For some reason, it accepts any tool for its construction - such as pots, nest boxes, and the various slabs. Naturally, I used one on gasoline.
As for its reactions, I found that they're far, far too slow to produce usable products to ever be economically feasible. Sure, if a noble wants steel items and you don't have any flux, it could be a lifesaver, but even getting enough for an entire suit of steel armor would take months.
I also built the various shrines, although the ritual of victory is the only one I used significantly. I've encountered some issues with it, though. First, since it's taking two body parts, which are more often than not whole corpses, it's always at maximum clutter and takes forever to actually do anything.
Second, if you're using a fresh corpse, and it becomes a rotten corpse while being used (entirely possible considering how long it takes), it will cancel the ritual claiming that the job item was lost/destroyed. After this occurred, I have been completely unable to reproduce the ritual at all. I've got a metric ton of corpses and body parts, from enemies and wild/stray animals, of practically every single body part. I also have plenty of the rock mugs I previously used for it, and when those didn't work I produced a large amount of silver goblets. Still refuses to register that I have the ingredients, so I'm kinda lost there.
I also began producing hadrine. I thought the capital 'H' for the mesh looked a bit odd, by the way - almost like a corpse. Anyway, I think the value of the mesh may be inflated a bit - no quality mesh is 36k, and if it has any quality at all it's worth more than masterwork addy. Even if it should be worth that much, there's a major difference between the value of the mesh and that of the products - helms and chestplates are worth less than a forth of the value of the no quality mesh used to make them. A masterwork helm is only worth 25k (copper mechanisms). That's a tremendous loss, especially with masterwork mesh (never got any, but judging by the prices, it might be the single most valuable item in existence).
Aside from that, I started growing some crystals. Everything seems to be working fine there; I haven't had it up for long. I did note that it'll use clay to grow them; probably intentional, but I wasn't quite sure.
Also, I'm swimming in lustrum, but in four+ years of having a minimum of three training workshops going at all times, I haven't received a slab about it. Everything else has tons of copies, but no lustrum. Rather irritating with the RNG there. If there was some way to, say, turn 10 slabs of one type into another it would be nice. Could always require a ton of valuable stuff, too. I mean, I'd throw in some addy bars if I could just get it already; I need a way to train my alchemists quickly.
I'm enjoying this version, honestly. I don't have to worry half as much about FPS. The one thing I'm concerned about that I was unable to test is how the simple clothing works in preventing FB rot and the like. I've had my caverns open since the beginning, but no beasts; I suspect they're either dead or didn't exist in the first place.
*ends text wall* Sheesh. My posts always end up so long...
Post by: Demiurge on October 08, 2011, 10:40:33 pm
I've been toying around with the Genesis mod but honestly I think I like this one more since training workshops require me to work for them.
Post by: narhiril on October 08, 2011, 11:10:12 pm
Well, since nobody else seems to have made any mention of results with the new SC version, I suppose I may as well post my results from playing several years of it.
I genned a fairly small world with only 1 cavern layer, min history, 500 mineral distribution, all races, and embarked on a haunted tropical biome. No major problems; dug down to magma and got addy armor before year two.
I did notice that there tended to be a lot of black squares of 'dead' shrubs around - evidently some type of the new plants doesn't die well, but I'm not sure which one.
Sounds like a plant with no dead shrub color value, ill hunt this one down.
Anyway, everything went fairly well for a year or two. I did note that, in a change from the usual system where only hunters wear leather clothes by default, the leather/cloth distribution for my dwarves tended to be random. Also, none of the traders ever brought any type of clothes, from any race, even their own; was rather odd for the elves, since it meant that the majority of their goods were actually wooden crafts rather than clothing.
Not sure what the deal is with this, but seems a very minor issue.
I maintained 100+ FPS through almost the entire second year, when it normally doesn't last past the third migrant wave or so; it's definitely a LOT faster.
I am ecstatic to hear this, as that was the entire reason I made SC.
I was especially grateful after I got the largest ambush I've ever seen in year three, with 4 squads each of goblins, bog trolls, and lizardmen, as well as 15+ theives, at the same time. That would have been impossible to clean up after without the reduced clothing.
My military is also extolling the virtues of adamantine great helms. I have yet to see anything that can even graze them. My militia commander survived 20+ pages of being stabbed in the head by several squads of goblins while unconscious, and even voidwalker thieves' voidshard razors (which I assume are the most effective weapon that any enemy can wield, considering how knives and similar weapons are overpowered) glance off harmlessly. I'll have to test them against the clowns, but so far they're making my military practically invincible.
Right now, adamantine trumps most enemies that are unable to penetrate or circumvent it to kill (a la syndromes). This is a problem that I intend to address with the next release of DF. Both ether and voidshard will be getting a contact syndrome to make them more deadly against certain targets. A number of enemies to be introduced will explore alternate methods of killing. There are plans in place, for instance, for a demon that fights by transfiguring its opponent. Material breath attacks will also be getting an overhaul, possibly allowing for some interesting new dynamics (i.e. frost breath). If the current version isn't posing much of a threat to your military, rest assured that there are new and greater threats around the corner.
I also actually constructed the temple of fire this time around; first time doing that. For some reason, it accepts any tool for its construction - such as pots, nest boxes, and the various slabs. Naturally, I used one on gasoline.
This is a bug. That tool is supposed to be the one required, but there is a typo in the building file. Fixed for 0.14d.
As for its reactions, I found that they're far, far too slow to produce usable products to ever be economically feasible. Sure, if a noble wants steel items and you don't have any flux, it could be a lifesaver, but even getting enough for an entire suit of steel armor would take months.
I wanted to be sure that this reaction could not be abused with numerous workshops. "Prayer" reactions are meant primarily for small-time objectives and mandates. Setting a prayer to repeat will give you a slow supply of its resources, but you must also remember that this supply comes without any cost or risk. The numbers may be tweaked a bit, but this reaction seems to be doing exactly what it's supposed to do. The ritual of prosperity, on the other hand, which uses gold crafts, will produce flux much more reliably. Combined with a reliable fuel source and an alchemy lab (turn stone to gold), this essentially allows you to create flux as needed using only basic stone. There will be other, more reliable (and more costly) methods of obtaining larger quantities of these sorts of resources in the near future. They are primarily waiting on the new syndrome system to use for their "risk" factor.
I also built the various shrines, although the ritual of victory is the only one I used significantly. I've encountered some issues with it, though. First, since it's taking two body parts, which are more often than not whole corpses, it's always at maximum clutter and takes forever to actually do anything.
Second, if you're using a fresh corpse, and it becomes a rotten corpse while being used (entirely possible considering how long it takes), it will cancel the ritual claiming that the job item was lost/destroyed. After this occurred, I have been completely unable to reproduce the ritual at all. I've got a metric ton of corpses and body parts, from enemies and wild/stray animals, of practically every single body part. I also have plenty of the rock mugs I previously used for it, and when those didn't work I produced a large amount of silver goblets. Still refuses to register that I have the ingredients, so I'm kinda lost there.
This ritual isn't working in the way I wanted it to (irritating body parts token, never seems to work right), and will have the reagents revised in the next version.
I also began producing hadrine. I thought the capital 'H' for the mesh looked a bit odd, by the way - almost like a corpse. Anyway, I think the value of the mesh may be inflated a bit - no quality mesh is 36k, and if it has any quality at all it's worth more than masterwork addy. Even if it should be worth that much, there's a major difference between the value of the mesh and that of the products - helms and chestplates are worth less than a forth of the value of the no quality mesh used to make them. A masterwork helm is only worth 25k (copper mechanisms). That's a tremendous loss, especially with masterwork mesh (never got any, but judging by the prices, it might be the single most valuable item in existence).
An oversight with LFR's custom tool objects is causing this. This is fixed in 0.14b.
Aside from that, I started growing some crystals. Everything seems to be working fine there; I haven't had it up for long. I did note that it'll use clay to grow them; probably intentional, but I wasn't quite sure.
Yes, intentional.
Also, I'm swimming in lustrum, but in four+ years of having a minimum of three training workshops going at all times, I haven't received a slab about it. Everything else has tons of copies, but no lustrum. Rather irritating with the RNG there. If there was some way to, say, turn 10 slabs of one type into another it would be nice. Could always require a ton of valuable stuff, too. I mean, I'd throw in some addy bars if I could just get it already; I need a way to train my alchemists quickly.
I'm looking into a way to do this. Since slabs can be produced for free when unlocked, I'm looking at other ways to get them onto the map - possibly higher-level rituals.
I'm enjoying this version, honestly. I don't have to worry half as much about FPS. The one thing I'm concerned about that I was unable to test is how the simple clothing works in preventing FB rot and the like. I've had my caverns open since the beginning, but no beasts; I suspect they're either dead or didn't exist in the first place.
I haven't been able to reproduce that issue. FB's are working just fine on my copy.
*ends text wall* Sheesh. My posts always end up so long...
Responses in bold.
Post by: artyom15 on October 09, 2011, 10:38:52 am
Post by: narhiril on October 10, 2011, 11:45:44 am
(http://i.imgur.com/RddjC.png])
Test results are promising. More importantly, I'm getting better at writing my own body and tissue raws, which will have some fun consequences in the future. I would consider this a "final testing and tweaking" phase leading up to a release, probably by the end of the week. The current changelog:
Spoiler: Changelog 0.14d (click to show/hide)
Post by: 73 on October 12, 2011, 10:07:47 pm
Crystalline blocks weigh under 1, which I think is a bit low. I ran around wielding enough blocks to build a small house without being encumbered (unfortunately, they're not very effective weapons).
Lizardman settlements use 'unknown material' doors with a weight of under 1. Nephilim use normal doors, and you can't go to the other races sites in adventure mode, so those are the only two I could test.
Lizardmen don't seem to have any soldiers except for wrestlers in adventure mode. The only non-wrestlers that belong directly to the civilization were ones who had been at my fort when it died - no more show up. There were also a few that were apparently independent of the civ, since they started killing each other. Ambushes from the civ itself were always wrestlers; never spawned anything else. However, bandit groups with lizardmen members still get normal soldiers. Since there was only one lizardman civ, I'm not sure if it was just an issue specific to that civ, but it seems unlikely that a civ would always get one soldier type purely by chance (especially since I killed a thousand of them).
Nephilim have an equipment manager job occasionally; I've got no idea what that's supposed to be. Still die easily enough, at least.
This one's rather odd, but I found that all the trader animals that were around from having previously visited my fort were actually wearing clothing. Not carrying it, wearing it, whatever the appropriate one was for their race - I ended up killing a lot of Yak Cows in sacred raiments or whatever. I checked this in fortress mode, but they don't wear anything there - seems to be adventure mode specific.
I do like the sound effects you added; very nice touch. Only one I had an issue with was 'the lizardwoman whatever angry hisses!'; needs a little rearrangement there.
Aside from that, orichalcum is listed as used for sharp blades in the stocks menu; not sure why.
Anyway, I'll get back to walling off the map edges on my new fort so I can do some testing on cavern creatures without interruptions. Already got a damascus arbiter to show up (had to let it go, since it was still year 1 and I had no military).
Post by: narhiril on October 13, 2011, 12:45:43 am
Lizardman issues have been hard to track down, but they seem to be symptomatic of the lizardmen not having access to stone or ores. This is probably due to them showing up in a biome which almost always has an aquifer (I don't know how the AI handles that situation). I will give them access to a few reactions to generate stone and copper without having to mine it, and hopefully this will resolve those issues. Also, that screwed up sound effect is an easy fix, (should be "angrily hisses") let me know if you run into any more.
Weight values for crystalline blocks is something I can easily tweak as well (you're right, it's a bit low).
Clothing on pack animals and equipment manager positions are two things I can't explain. I know that equipment managers were a nobility position in earlier versions of DF, which were later cut and replaced by the new squad manager screen. I suspect that these anomalies might be within DF itself.
Anything with a max edge value above a certain threshold (I think it's 10000 or higher, but I haven't thoroughly tested this) will have a "sharp blades" property. This is present on most metals, including orichalcum.
Finally, you're the first person I've ever heard of running into that particular creature. If you can find it again, try to kill it, it has quite a nice little surprise waiting for you. :)
Post by: Pan on October 13, 2011, 08:29:58 am
Post by: Imp on October 14, 2011, 02:28:44 am
Post by: BackgroundGuy on October 14, 2011, 05:03:13 pm
Post by: 73 on October 14, 2011, 06:04:36 pm
Thank god he's not a noble.
In other news, I got ANOTHER damascus arbiter. And I'm very much inclined to agree with them needing tweaked. I've fought this guy twice (savescum), and here are my results:
Military of 10 legendary miners, all iron armor, 1 iovium pick and 9 irons picks. 1 talented macedwarf, damascus steel mace. 5 marksdwarves, wooden crossbows, iron armor, using forgotten beast bone bolts.
Result set 1:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
This thing is fucking INVULNERABLE. The only weapons that even touch it are iovium and FB bone bolts; everything else just glances away or breaks away some of the gas-emitting stuff (which doesn't show up, but eventually it says the gas-emitting pieces in all the body parts are gone; no apparent effect).
It looks like the only possible way to kill this would be with adamantine weaponry. Mithril and damascus steel are supposed to be equallish, if I remember correctly, and neither work. Only things above that are voidshard and addy. This world has no voidwalkers, so that's out, and I'm not sure if that would be effective either. The iovium working is odd; I suppose the game considers it technically 'better' than D. Steel. Unfortunately it's probably impossible to cut something made of d. steel in half with an iovium axe even at legendary.
The beast bone's no good either, since bolts won't sever anything, and you can't make bone javelins (at least, I don't think so). Even if you could, I suspect the results would be similar to the iovium.
So, yeah - this thing is overpowered on a fort-decimating level, and is definitely the strongest enemy I've ever seen in DF that wasn't deliberately designed to be unkillable (like a slade colossus).
Excuse me while I savescum and hope my artifact door distracts it long enough to drop the roof on it; I doubt anything else will kill it.
Post by: narhiril on October 14, 2011, 07:33:23 pm
Finally found time to grow thyme, and soon wondered why my stockpile was full of bluebells - looks like those two plants, once picked, share the same sprite. Is that intended?
No, thyme is supposed to be green instead of cyan. I'll fix this for the next version.
How balanced would a Nephal Commune be, and what would you recommend I add to it to make it more balanced?
Not very balanced since they use a cheat reaction to produce steel, and I don't know how well flying player civs work (I would imagine not too well, foreseeing problems with animal hauling).
I'm deliberately not responding to 73's post right now because I don't have time to do so adequately. I'll address that when I get home later.
Post by: Man of Paper on October 14, 2011, 09:10:40 pm
Gonna get this, even though I can just manage a vanilla fort and can't last for more than a couple years in Genesis (though to be fair, my Genesis world gens have hated me).
Post by: Putnam on October 14, 2011, 10:11:17 pm
Post by: narhiril on October 14, 2011, 10:51:18 pm
The cheat reaction to produce steel won't be available unless there's a building associated with it.
[PERMITTED_BUILDING:METAL_CHEAT]
Post by: Mandango on October 15, 2011, 02:28:29 am
Post by: Putnam on October 15, 2011, 12:01:08 pm
The cheat reaction to produce steel won't be available unless there's a building associated with it.
[PERMITTED_BUILDING:METAL_CHEAT]
Well, then that's all you have to remove to balance it :P
Besides, so far as I can tell, you don't actually need cheat buildings for cheat reactions to work. In my mod, I have cheat reactions but no cheat building, and it mostly works fine.
Post by: Ishar on October 15, 2011, 04:32:39 pm
Sorry, I didn't read all the 60 pages of this topic, only a few random posts, so what I'm asking for might be redundant.
Post by: 73 on October 15, 2011, 05:42:42 pm
I've just downloaded this thing, but the new buildings and things like that confused me a bit. Is there any documentation, or maybe even a beginners' guide somewhere, or does the mod have a 'discover for yourself' policy?
Sorry, I didn't read all the 60 pages of this topic, only a few random posts, so what I'm asking for might be redundant.
There's a manual included with the file. Check the LFR Manual and Lore folder that came with the download. The manual doesn't have everything, but it'll at least explain the basic concepts.
On an unrelated note, today my alchemist suffocated while being carried from his workshop after vomitting all over the entire place. I wasn't paying attention, so I don't know exactly what caused it, but he was performing standard experiments, never been in combat, and no synodromes around. First time I've seen an alchemist die from experiments.
More Damascus Arbiter results:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
With the death of the damascus arbiter, my cavern research continued. Since I used the time he was on the map, when nothing else could spawn, to cover all the edges in cave traps, I got a ton of stuff almost immediately after his death (including a cave dragon). The only creature specific to your mod (at least, I don't recognize them from vanilla), however, was a
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I also wanted to mention that javelins may be overpriced. 15 stack of masterwork iron javelins is 41400 (broad), which is, again, worth a bit more than some addy items. Plus, masterwork javelins are common due to using the furnace operating skill, since legendary furnace operators are a regular occurence.
I'll keep testing and see if I can't catch one of those
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: SirAaronIII on October 15, 2011, 08:05:10 pm
Could there also possibly be a technological advance that would give you a trap that voidwalkers would trigger?No, traps are hard-coded. Every creature either sets off a trap or doesn't, using TRAP_AVOID.
Post by: narhiril on October 15, 2011, 10:14:59 pm
Basically, either Microsoft screwed up and didn't test their damn patches before release (wouldn't be the first time) or Best Buy sold me a duped copy of Windows. Either way, someone is getting a nasty letter.
Hope to have things up and running for 0.14d by Monday. I have this week off, so that shouldn't be a problem.
Post by: 73 on October 16, 2011, 05:32:57 pm
Turns out that's not quite it.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
They spawn in the magma sea. And then they drown in an extremely anticlimatic fashion.
I've seen them in the circus too, but usually magma sea.
Found that by using runesmith to delete all the magma crabs that kept showing up, in an attempt to get more cavern creatures to spawn. Since they didn't, it looks like I killed everything in the area and need to start a new fort. Oh well.
Post by: narhiril on October 16, 2011, 06:24:15 pm
On an unrelated note, today my alchemist suffocated while being carried from his workshop after vomitting all over the entire place. I wasn't paying attention, so I don't know exactly what caused it, but he was performing standard experiments, never been in combat, and no synodromes around. First time I've seen an alchemist die from experiments.
More Damascus Arbiter results:Spoiler (click to show/hide)
With the death of the damascus arbiter, my cavern research continued. Since I used the time he was on the map, when nothing else could spawn, to cover all the edges in cave traps, I got a ton of stuff almost immediately after his death (including a cave dragon). The only creature specific to your mod (at least, I don't recognize them from vanilla), however, was aI'm not sure if she spawned on a trap that had yet to be reloaded (couldn't keep up with the captures), or was trapavoid; she spawned right next to my military and the combat happened immediately. Despite webbing a few people, she was unable to injure my iron armored dwarves, and died fairly quickly.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I also wanted to mention that javelins may be overpriced. 15 stack of masterwork iron javelins is 41400 (broad), which is, again, worth a bit more than some addy items. Plus, masterwork javelins are common due to using the furnace operating skill, since legendary furnace operators are a regular occurence.
I'll keep testing and see if I can't catch one of thoseif one shows up again, since I got a GCS. Or maybe even capture an arbiter... But first things first. Gotta kill enough creatures they start spawning again, since I think I hit the pop limit (or gremlins are hiding somewhere).Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Right, let's take this from the top.
Alchemy can be lethal, though this is extremely rare ("acute radiation sickness" destroys the brain, if I recall correctly, but it's a rare, fast-acting syndrome attached to a rare byproduct). I mourn your loss in the name of !!SCIENCE!!
Damascus Arbiters are some of the most powerful creatures in LFR, outmatching most megabeasts easily. They were supposed to be underground megabeasts, but this idea was scrapped (custom underground megabeasts seem not to work properly, in my experience) in favor of the more secretive "rare wandering creature." Ether, adamantine, and voidshard are the only materials that can kill them with any sort of consistency (iovium whips seem to work well also, but iovium hammers don't). The Damascus Arbiter and Sentinel see some significant revision in v0.14d, where a brain-like appendage ("control module") is added that can be shattered in order to kill them - this is intended to make them slightly more vulnerable to blunt weapons. However, the entire concept of a Damascus Arbiter is that it's a titanic (roughly 160 times the size of a dwarf) construct of a long-dead civilization. While the sentinels were built for patrol and guard roles, the arbiters are very rare and thought to have a more important purpose. There are usually fewer than a thousand of these in existance in even the largest of worlds. From a balance standpoint, they're supposed to be tough as nails. They match up pretty evenly with greater demons - whoever takes off or smashes the head first tends to win these match ups.
Devourers are much larger variants of giant cave spiders, with more power and more valuable silk. They also avoid traps, but are not immune to stuns, so it's conceivably possible to capture one.
Javelin values are a complicated issue stemming from the [SIZE:xxx] token. I have not thoroughly tested how (or even if) this value effects combat performance - if it doesn't, I'll reduce it to bring their value back down to earth. Adamantine javelins don't exist because adamantine bolts were so terrible, but after doing some testing, I've actually found that adamantine javelins aren't that bad. I will add reactions for creating adamantine piercing and broadhead javelins for 0.14d - but be aware that the value of these is likely to be obscene until I can sort out the size problem.
The energy flux modulus does not stockpile properly because it is, technically, a "toy" item made of a gem. Since gems are not usually used for toys, there is no stockpile option for it (you may notice this if you ever get an artifact gemstone toy). I am not sure why the workshop itself would not recognize the reagent - though weird things sometimes happen with workshops with reagents in different burrows. I'm glad you were able to get it to work via the manager, it's really a fun weapon. It's basically an extremely powerful crossbow that has a bayonet melee attack. Expect more technical advances along these lines in future tech tree updates.
You know how there's almost always a dead Greater Demon of Wrath or two on the units screen? I think the explanation you gave was that they weren't friends with anything down in the circus and were getting killed, if I remember correctly.
Turns out that's not quite it.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
They spawn in the magma sea. And then they drown in an extremely anticlimatic fashion.
I've seen them in the circus too, but usually magma sea.
Found that by using runesmith to delete all the magma crabs that kept showing up, in an attempt to get more cavern creatures to spawn. Since they didn't, it looks like I killed everything in the area and need to start a new fort. Oh well.
[UNDERGROUND_DEPTH:4:5]
What do you know, eh? Not intended, I'll get that fixed immediately. Also nabbed a bug with the trash compactor that was causing the blueprint reaction to use the wrong item (I noticed it when I started getting flooded with blueprints).
0.14d is waiting on one last thing, which I'm testing now. I'll have it up for download late tonight or early tomorrow.
Post by: 73 on October 17, 2011, 02:28:10 pm
Devourers are much larger variants of giant cave spiders, with more power and more valuable silk. They also avoid traps, but are not immune to stuns, so it's conceivably possible to capture one.
Quote from: Devourer Raws
[THICKWEB][WEBIMMUNE]
[LARGE_ROAMING][AMBUSHPREDATOR][PARALYZEIMMUNE][NOPAIN][TRAPAVOID]
[NO_SLEEP]
[NOPAIN][EXTRAVISION][NOSTUN][NOEMOTION][NONAUSEA]
I checked that after my capture attempts failed. It appears to be completely impossible to capture one, due to them actually being immune to every sort of unconsciousness and also being immune to webs. Rather disappointing after I set up a GCS and cave-in trap to see if I could get one.
Also, you've got NOPAIN in there twice, for whatever reason.
Post by: narhiril on October 17, 2011, 02:39:32 pm
EDIT: 0.14d is now up and running, along with a new version of LFR-SC that is compatible. As usual, please direct comments or concerns to this thread, or contact me via personal message.
Post by: SirAaronIII on October 17, 2011, 05:08:40 pm
Downloading now. Thanks for dedicating so much of your time into this mod.
Post by: keyreper on October 17, 2011, 06:20:02 pm
Post by: Pan on October 17, 2011, 07:36:42 pm
Post by: Imp on October 18, 2011, 12:09:34 am
Except... My current LoFR fort is... not done. It's perhaps the longest kept fort I've had yet! It's got all of 177 dwarves, tons of animals, a river and waterfall, regular seiges and ambushes and all sorts of unpredictable LoFR goodies I slowly keep noticing.... and the FPS is still around 50 most of the time! It gets up to 70 at moments! This fort flies and sings and dances and... I cannot yet turn from it.
Your new masterpiece must wait to be appreciated by me. I'm to busy appreciating your earlier masterwork!
Post by: TheLinguist on October 19, 2011, 01:32:36 pm
And, having just lost my first LFR fort, and embarked a second one, here's some stuff that I've noticed.
Didn't I see, somewhere in the changelog, a mention that the "World bearer's shell" should stop showing up in the stone list? Yeah, it's still there (I'm using the raw-only download, ASCII version). Both 0.14c and 0.14d.
Lizardman behavior seems kinda funky... at one point, in the fort I lost, they showed up to ambush/siege and just hung around my river. Never leaving, never going in the main gate (which was OPEN), just sitting there, looking threatening. Seeing as I tend to use stationary defenses (which were far away from the river), and had just had my meager army decimated by voidwalkers, the immobile lizardmen were a significant annoyance :P. I think the issue was that I had cut two channels to the river for a water supply and drainage, respectively, and they seemed to really want to go in that way for some reason. The odd thing is, I had two OTHER ways to enter the fort, a waterwheel room and the main entrance, yet the lizardmen chose to hang out next to the entrances blocked off by closed floodgates. Maybe this is a pathing bug, similar to the nephilim?
What's with all the plants that have bright green/blue/etc. backgrounds in ASCII mode? I don't mind colored foregrounds, but the background - in ASCII mode - is something that should probably be left black. After all, it can be a little disconcerting when I see a bright green square in the middle of a cavern, and spawning next to a blue field (bluebells, I think?) in adventure mode makes me think I'm somewhere coastal ;). Is there an easy way to find and change all of those backgrounds back to black? Say, with a search-and-replace on specific files?
Have you thought about adding a way to craft most of the new items in adventurer mode? Say, by giving a modified version of the experimental weapons lab reactions to adventurers, using something similar to the Wanderer's Friend mod? Because LFR is pretty nice as-is, but seems highly oriented towards fortress mode. Adding a way to get the new weapons, without having to detour into fortress mode, would be a nice way to spread the love, methinks. It could also make it so that elves starting in nephilim areas, for instance, don't get totally screwed over by pathing bugs (more on that later). Anyway, if this seems like an interesting idea, I've got more that I could say about good ways to implement it (e.g., don't use stone, to keep the specialness of the new weapons). Heck, I might just implement it myself, if I find time. If so, is the iron experimental weapon reaction a good one to modify?
Nephilim have a nasty pathing bug in adventurer mode, as well. Whenever I go to recruit a nephilim, they wind up flying and... get left behind, somehow. I haven't looked to see exactly WHERE they end up, but I do know that twice now, I've left the fort I recruited them at, fast-traveled with the nephilim flying behind me in some Armok-forsaken location, and I've lost the nephilim allies when I return to local movement. This isn't *too* much of a problem if you start with reasonable weaponry (and tactical know-how from vanilla), but seeing as elves start with a mere wooden spear... yeah, I'm gonna see if I can get Wanderer's Friend to play nice with this mod :P. I want me some 1500+ starting speed!
Nephilim soldiers in adventurer mode also seem to never use weaponry, but I think that's already been reported.
Anyway, nifty mod, now I need to see if magma works better on voidwalkers than mechanical traps did :). Although... voidshard is... not magma safe, huh? Well, guess I'll start with marksdwarves, THEN use magma if/when my bolts fail.
Post by: narhiril on October 19, 2011, 02:08:03 pm
Didn't I see, somewhere in the changelog, a mention that the "World bearer's shell" should stop showing up in the stone list? Yeah, it's still there (I'm using the raw-only download, ASCII version). Both 0.14c and 0.14d.
Yeah, that's an obsolete file that I seem to have accidentally left in for the raw-only release. Go ahead and delete "inorganic_material_land_mover_narhiril.txt" to fix that, it isn't doing anything anyway.
What's with all the plants that have bright green/blue/etc. backgrounds in ASCII mode? I don't mind colored foregrounds, but the background - in ASCII mode - is something that should probably be left black. After all, it can be a little disconcerting when I see a bright green square in the middle of a cavern, and spawning next to a blue field (bluebells, I think?) in adventure mode makes me think I'm somewhere coastal ;). Is there an easy way to find and change all of those backgrounds back to black? Say, with a search-and-replace on specific files?
Have you thought about adding a way to craft most of the new items in adventurer mode? Say, by giving a modified version of the experimental weapons lab reactions to adventurers, using something similar to the Wanderer's Friend mod? Because LFR is pretty nice as-is, but seems highly oriented towards fortress mode. Adding a way to get the new weapons, without having to detour into fortress mode, would be a nice way to spread the love, methinks. It could also make it so that elves starting in nephilim areas, for instance, don't get totally screwed over by pathing bugs (more on that later). Anyway, if this seems like an interesting idea, I've got more that I could say about good ways to implement it (e.g., don't use stone, to keep the specialness of the new weapons). Heck, I might just implement it myself, if I find time. If so, is the iron experimental weapon reaction a good one to modify?
I don't play ASCII mode, personally, so this is the kind of feedback that is very, very helpful. I don't have a script that does this for you, but if you find the token under each plant entry...
[SHRUB_COLOR:2:10:2]
The middle number is background color, set it to zero to get rid of that. I'll go ahead and do the same thing for the ASCII raws for the next version.
I am, also, horribly unfamiliar with the nuances of adventure mode. I am very much open to exploring the "experimental weapons" becoming available in adventure mode more easily - I just need to sit down and do the research on how adventure mode reactions work and how I can balance them.
Pathing issues with the nephilim are starting to irritate me. I think I'll be cutting out the flier token and just giving them very high speed in the next test build, and we'll see how that works. I don't know why they aren't using weapons in adventure mode either - I have an idea of how to fix this, but I need to test it.
Post by: Putnam on October 19, 2011, 05:01:45 pm
1. You don't need a building.
2. Metal bars are glitched; asking for 150 will cost two bars: one for 150 left, one for 0 left.
Other than that, pretty much identical.
Post by: 73 on October 19, 2011, 06:35:46 pm
Pathing issues with the nephilim are starting to irritate me. I think I'll be cutting out the flier token and just giving them very high speed in the next test build, and we'll see how that works. I don't know why they aren't using weapons in adventure mode either - I have an idea of how to fix this, but I need to test it.
That'd be sweet, since it removes the necessity of building tunnels to trade with them. Although really high speed could be a bit overwhelming, given their like of sieging (seriously, it's really, really easy to get them to siege. Two diplomats dead, or even just stealing all the anvils from a few consecutive caravans and they're at my front door).
I did want to comment, though, that I haven't run into issues with nephilim not using weapons. This is based on previous experiences from 14c, since I haven't gotten into adventure mode with 14d yet, but I don't think it should have changed. They've used weapons fine in all my games, multiple soldier types, etc, practically everyone has steel knives (don't attack their villages without adamantine. Seriously). So if there's a bug here, it definitely doesn't show up all the time.
Post by: The Master on October 19, 2011, 09:00:51 pm
Post by: TheLinguist on October 20, 2011, 01:07:07 am
Quote
I don't have a script that does this for you
Luckily, I run Linux. Perl or sed should do the trick :D.
As for adventure mode crafting, I haven't looked at the raws too in-depth, but I have played around with Wanderer's Friend a bit, as well as vanilla adventure mode. Let's see, what have I noticed... rocks are available in vanilla, but are essentially infinite, so probably not good for a rare weapon. Bone and hide are available in a reasonable quantity - you have to actually work for them, but it's not too hard to get a decent supply. Leather and metal could be available in fairly large quantity if you added a reaction to tan hides, or melt gear (just raid a bandit camp for the metal). Tooth and horn are harder to come by, so they might make good choices for a rare weapon reaction.
Although, actually, I think what I'd like is for at least a subset of the experimental weapons to require moderately rare resources, such as tooth, horn, or high-grade animal products. Say, elephant-or-better bones, or something. You'd have to mod in the distinction between hoary marmot bones and elephant bones, true, but then I think you'd be able to strike a nice balance with the rarity: difficult enough to acquire that the weapons would be special, but easy enough to acquire that it's actually conceivable that you could get more than one, if that struck your fancy. Of course, that's just my own opinion, there :).
Edit: Ah, right, buildings change the background color, too. Man, green glass doors and floodgates look weird...
Post by: Putnam on October 21, 2011, 12:29:21 am
Consider it payback for teaching me how to do bodies/creatures :P
Post by: The Master on October 22, 2011, 12:21:06 am
I am, also, horribly unfamiliar with the nuances of adventure mode. I am very much open to exploring the "experimental weapons" becoming available in adventure mode more easily - I just need to sit down and do the research on how adventure mode reactions work and how I can balance them.
PSST! This might help!
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=55259.msg1189820#msg1189820
Post by: Putnam on October 22, 2011, 01:43:12 am
I am, also, horribly unfamiliar with the nuances of adventure mode. I am very much open to exploring the "experimental weapons" becoming available in adventure mode more easily - I just need to sit down and do the research on how adventure mode reactions work and how I can balance them.
PSST! This might help!
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=55259.msg1189820#msg1189820
hmm...
Quote
REMEMBER THAT A REACTION MADE ITEM WILL NOT HAVE QUALITY LEVELS, FOR QUALITY LEVELS YOU ACTUALLY HAVE TO MAKE IT!
Then why do I have so much -artifact grist-?
Reaction-made items have quality levels if the reaction has an associated skill.
Post by: Imp on October 23, 2011, 06:22:08 am
Post by: Imp on October 26, 2011, 02:12:10 am
When I got to look at it, noticed a duplicated descriptor - She has an enourmous build but is very skinny. She has an enourmous build but is very skinny. Her hair is white. Her skin is copper. Her eyes are black.
Post by: Pan on October 26, 2011, 07:20:09 am
Post by: narhiril on October 26, 2011, 02:18:10 pm
Got curious about the lore and manual entries mentioned in the version .14d changes, and searched the pre-installed Ironhand download for the lores and manual but couldn't find the folder. Did find it when I downloaded the raws-only version. Is "LFR Manual and Lore" folder missing from the pre-installed version, or am I just blind?
A thousand apologies, that folder is indeed missing from the Ironhand v0.14d release. You can pick up just the lore and manual here (http://download784.mediafire.com/w83q8k58424g/eq5072aq0h02s2m/LFR+Manual+and+Lore.zip) while I get that fixed immediately.
Finally spotted a special carbuncle in a caravan (very valuable carbuncle :D, made it easy to notice!)
When I got to look at it, noticed a duplicated descriptor - She has an enourmous build but is very skinny. She has an enourmous build but is very skinny. Her hair is white. Her skin is copper. Her eyes are black.
Looking into this - probably just an accidental duplicate line. Thanks for the tip.
Due to attrition, my fortress has finally lost the battle for control of the surface. While sabre tooth tigers and other formidable war animals are useful for distracting, there aren't enough of them in the long run. May I request a creature with harder outer layering, but does little damage? Some tanking animals would be good.
The creature Imp has mentioned was a prototype for something along these lines. With a bunch of templates made to create it, I can have something like this prepared rather quickly, though for balance reasons it might not have as strong of an outer layering.
My current "test" fort is out on a terrifying glacier, and I'm managing to continue to hold the surface after 13 years. Admittedly, I got lucky and embarked on a massive deposit of ferrovanadium, and there have been many casualties and collateral damage, but the roads remain open. Using simplified clothing, it chugs along at about 30 fps. Not the fastest, but very much playable, even with all three caverns open.
My first successful vanilla fortress had reached about 8fps at this point, so I'm pretty happy with the way it's going.
---
EDIT: A new upload of the pre-installed v0.14d is available at DFFD. If you had downloaded this version of 0.14d previously, you can pick up the missing lore and manual files from the temporary link here (http://download784.mediafire.com/w83q8k58424g/eq5072aq0h02s2m/LFR+Manual+and+Lore.zip).
Post by: narhiril on October 26, 2011, 03:55:35 pm
I guess I know what I'll be up to tonight.
Post by: Imp on October 26, 2011, 10:55:04 pm
Starting to wonder if you adjusted the dwarven birthrate though?
I'd never seen a dwarf of mine have more than one child at a time before I played your mod, though I'd read that twins and triplets were possible.
My last fort (before the new update) had among several normal single births a pair of twins and then (to another mother) a set of triplets. And the first birth in my new fort saw the "surprise" of triplets as well, which was more startling than surprising... Are dwarven multiples born on Easter in this mod, or is the RNG actually laughing that hard?
Post by: narhiril on October 27, 2011, 12:10:03 am
Gosh I love this mod :)
Starting to wonder if you adjusted the dwarven birthrate though?
I'd never seen a dwarf of mine have more than one child at a time before I played your mod, though I'd read that twins and triplets were possible.
My last fort (before the new update) had among several normal single births a pair of twins and then (to another mother) a set of triplets. And the first birth in my new fort saw the "surprise" of triplets as well, which was more startling than surprising... Are dwarven multiples born on Easter in this mod, or is the RNG actually laughing that hard?
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
At the moment, in a large fort with a good amount of luck, you can end up with 80 dwarves and 40+ children as a result, which might initially seem a bit extreme, but will become more useful when the ritual tree is fully flushed out. You won't actually be doing anything satanic like sacrificing babies to the blood god or anything, but you will need the steady supply of dwarves soon enough. In the end, the higher tiers of the tech tree will focus more on creation of items, while the ritual tree will focus on creation of creatures (which is why this is waiting for the next version of DF).
Post by: Imp on October 27, 2011, 02:51:53 am
Post by: Pan on October 27, 2011, 05:09:28 am
the ritual tree will focus on creation of creatures
I look forward to lacerators of Armok.
Post by: Imp on October 27, 2011, 09:29:21 pm
It's -so- much fun to watch the grand carbunkle fight, though it appears that various other critters can suffer from being to near the target. A special op pigeon's heart went cyan, and a wardog's brain too, after one massive beast-pile upon an unlucky voidwalker. There was nothing in the combat logs to explain the "wounds", and nothing unusual in the health screen for them, other than a useless diagnosis request (oh, I'd give so much for a vet!) - but they (and many other unharmed beasts) were caught in bursts of bladed air (the other critters, and the voidwalker, appeared unaffected, so far, by this), so am guessing they may have gotten bladed air to the heart or brain?
Amusingly, that fight ended by a glorious giant desert scorpion that a trader had bought - it prefers to grapple instead of sting (unlike the last one I had) and after tearing off a hand and a toe, then totally joint-lock mangling the walker's ankle, it snagged the enemy's glistening voidshard razor and stabbed the walker through the heart. And -kept- the razor, a half season later it still had it and used it (after several instances of being blocked) to attack from behind and again, break the heart. Two kills with this weapon - Both to the cuddly giant desert scorpion, beware it's ability to fight with your weapon better than you can!
Post by: Imp on October 28, 2011, 01:01:46 am
Post by: narhiril on October 28, 2011, 02:29:23 am
I never really played much with fighting. Defensive traps, yeah, keep enemies at a distance and drop them from great heights/cram into small cages, occasionally swarm a sneaky with wardogs.
It's -so- much fun to watch the grand carbunkle fight, though it appears that various other critters can suffer from being to near the target. A special op pigeon's heart went cyan, and a wardog's brain too, after one massive beast-pile upon an unlucky voidwalker. There was nothing in the combat logs to explain the "wounds", and nothing unusual in the health screen for them, other than a useless diagnosis request (oh, I'd give so much for a vet!) - but they (and many other unharmed beasts) were caught in bursts of bladed air (the other critters, and the voidwalker, appeared unaffected, so far, by this), so am guessing they may have gotten bladed air to the heart or brain?
Amusingly, that fight ended by a glorious giant desert scorpion that a trader had bought - it prefers to grapple instead of sting (unlike the last one I had) and after tearing off a hand and a toe, then totally joint-lock mangling the walker's ankle, it snagged the enemy's glistening voidshard razor and stabbed the walker through the heart. And -kept- the razor, a half season later it still had it and used it (after several instances of being blocked) to attack from behind and again, break the heart. Two kills with this weapon - Both to the cuddly giant desert scorpion, beware it's ability to fight with your weapon better than you can!
Awesome story with the scorpion. I am going to be adding common friendly war creatures to the immunity list for bladed air to minimize the friendly fire mess it seems to be causing. I will not be adding meowkin, elves, humans, pack animals, or nephilim to that list in case players desire to fight them. Empyrean carbuncles will not attack them unless they are hostile, but collateral damage might result from a skirmish involving empyrean carbuncles in close proximity to caravans or diplomats, but I agree that it is a bit silly for them to be slaughtering your own war creatures, who are their active partners in combat. Right now, I'm going to keep going down the alphabet with tweaks and minor feature additions. Expect a new, armored, war-trainable creature to join the dwarven arsenal in the near future.
I plan to release at least one more tweak version before 0.15, which will use the upcoming DF release. I am unsure how much of this new release will require me to adjust the existing features of the mod - I am hoping it won't be much, but if it is, it could delay things a bit.
Got a fatal error, alas alac. "Nemisis unit load failed" is the fatal error message. Happened in year 4 (of play, year 129 absolute), winter. Feels more like April Fools than Easter! :-\
I did some research here, and it looks like this (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=1371) has popped up in vanilla as well. I have never actually seen this error before, but I highly doubt that it is something I could have caused with the raws.
Unfortunately, that means I also don't have the slightest inkling of how to fix it. Sorry I couldn't be more helpful.
Post by: fire1666 on October 28, 2011, 07:48:20 am
also just as an idea, dont hit me but, a new workshop that makes a robotic slave/drone this will get designated down a path for example, give it a agri path and it will farm and gather crops for you automaticly, or a mining path, auto mines for your dwarfs, posable a retractive armor addon turning it intoa shield drone, returning some of the damage delt BACK to whoever attacked it, for example, gobling stabs drone, drone's pain mirror or retractive armor deals 25% at most back to the gobling.
on the same note the drones could also take damage for near-by dwarfs example, gobling stabs dwarf, dwarf gets hurt, drone absorbs 25% damage and heal's the 25% damage the dwarf lost.
sorry if these idea's are bad ect but im just trying to help you with this mod.
if you want ideas let me know.
Post by: Pan on October 28, 2011, 08:02:54 am
Post by: fire1666 on October 28, 2011, 08:06:45 am
I don't think all that is possible, fire1666... :(*sobs*
Post by: Imp on October 29, 2011, 02:53:26 am
I did some research here, and it looks like this (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=1371) has popped up in vanilla as well. I have never actually seen this error before, but I highly doubt that it is something I could have caused with the raws.
Unfortunately, that means I also don't have the slightest inkling of how to fix it. Sorry I couldn't be more helpful.
That's plenty helpful! Seems to be a unit trying to accompany the Nephilim caravan, was in winter so that's the only caravan that came. Error happened about 6 times (I'd saved very recently before, so kept restarting in hopes of a gift from the RNG) and then it came... a goblin seige. And no crashy-bug... will see if I need to pray for a seige to save me from every Neph caravan to come (gosh I hope not).
One of the goblin squads is gathered around a cagetrap holding their leader. Shortly after their leader got delayed, several raccoons approached the gathered elk-bird riding goblins, and commenced... dancing with them. There's no combat log, no blood, just a series of units rapidly shifting between each other's squares. Seems the raccoons want to share a square with the goblins, and the goblins don't want this...
Fascinated, I kept watching. Suddenly, a raccoon started to run off... carrying.... a weapon! Hey! That's MIN.... err.... I check, as I'd not left any items there. It had iron arrows, 25, and was rapidly fleeing. Bah. How'd I miss that many arrows? Oh! The goblin it had been dancing with, that was a bowman, yes.... and checking, there's the quiver on its back, empty.
The other two raccoons continue their dance. The combat log doesn't show it, but I recognize that dance now. That's a near endless series of dodges, it must be, as the raccoons "attack", scrambing for the quivers, and the ever so patient goblins move away, lacking orders to slap the annoyances away. There's a couple of macegobs with the stalled siegers, and the raccoons do not seem to care about those. Coincidence? I'll need more raccoons to test that. Hrm....
*Imp, who's having a real blast enjoying each Easter day with this mod, wondering like mad if the things she never noticed before are features of the game or the mod*
Post by: Fairin on October 29, 2011, 06:02:33 am
i came on today and made a new world get my fort plan idea dug out pritty underground fortress begin to equip my military and find out for whatever reason...
i cannot make high boots.. at all it doesnt even show in the menu, so i got curious and checked the raws and referenced it to the 5 other installations of DF (various other mods and vanilla) and cant seem to see anything different. is there a specific place i should be obviously looking to see if i can re-enable making highboots for my dwarves?
-- checked the -default- raws. and none of them seem to bother to include highboots. yet my other realms can make them but not this one, nor any in this specific mods realms anymore
Post by: fire1666 on October 29, 2011, 08:40:23 am
Post by: SirAaronIII on October 29, 2011, 11:15:59 am
i didnt mess with the raws, put in df hack with fusion and whatnot everything runs smoothlyIn te dwarven entity file, high boots are listed as common, which means that usually you should have them but sometimes (like now) you get unlucky and can't use them.
i came on today and made a new world get my fort plan idea dug out pritty underground fortress begin to equip my military and find out for whatever reason...
i cannot make high boots.. at all it doesnt even show in the menu, so i got curious and checked the raws and referenced it to the 5 other installations of DF (various other mods and vanilla) and cant seem to see anything different. is there a specific place i should be obviously looking to see if i can re-enable making highboots for my dwarves?
-- checked the -default- raws. and none of them seem to bother to include highboots. yet my other realms can make them but not this one, nor any in this specific mods realms anymore
Post by: narhiril on October 29, 2011, 06:53:18 pm
hi guys im back, jsut to say about my previous idea, i have a good idea for a workshop, using the same drone / ai slaves consept, it's a workshop that can grow crops inside it like a field, but it will produce more then a field, and quicker, but will need one unit of fuel per month, just an idea to show.
This is a planned tech tree feature that I wasn't planning on revealing yet, but it's called the Hydroponics Lab. I came to the conclusion in testing that it wasn't balanced unless I put it much higher on the tech tree (tier 4 or higher), since it basically allows you to farm anywhere.
Post by: fire1666 on October 30, 2011, 11:14:56 am
wow that was damn lucky on my half, but its a rearly good consept, also i love this mod, joint 1 with genesis on my mod list, keep up the very good work :Dhi guys im back, jsut to say about my previous idea, i have a good idea for a workshop, using the same drone / ai slaves consept, it's a workshop that can grow crops inside it like a field, but it will produce more then a field, and quicker, but will need one unit of fuel per month, just an idea to show.
This is a planned tech tree feature that I wasn't planning on revealing yet, but it's called the Hydroponics Lab. I came to the conclusion in testing that it wasn't balanced unless I put it much higher on the tech tree (tier 4 or higher), since it basically allows you to farm anywhere.
Post by: Tyler6498 on October 30, 2011, 11:57:10 am
hi guys im back, jsut to say about my previous idea, i have a good idea for a workshop, using the same drone / ai slaves consept, it's a workshop that can grow crops inside it like a field, but it will produce more then a field, and quicker, but will need one unit of fuel per month, just an idea to show.
This is a planned tech tree feature that I wasn't planning on revealing yet, but it's called the Hydroponics Lab. I came to the conclusion in testing that it wasn't balanced unless I put it much higher on the tech tree (tier 4 or higher), since it basically allows you to farm anywhere.
Glacier Farm? :o
Post by: Seriyu on October 30, 2011, 06:00:11 pm
Post by: Pan on October 30, 2011, 10:33:35 pm
hi guys im back, jsut to say about my previous idea, i have a good idea for a workshop, using the same drone / ai slaves consept, it's a workshop that can grow crops inside it like a field, but it will produce more then a field, and quicker, but will need one unit of fuel per month, just an idea to show.
This is a planned tech tree feature that I wasn't planning on revealing yet, but it's called the Hydroponics Lab. I came to the conclusion in testing that it wasn't balanced unless I put it much higher on the tech tree (tier 4 or higher), since it basically allows you to farm anywhere.
Usually, by then people would have already have irrigation set up. Also, how long will the reactions in it take? I mean, farming usually has the farmer take a seed, plant it and then go about his business. If this is a workshop, then does it mean the farmer will plant a seed and wait for it to grow the entire duration (the farmer will be in the workshop. So if the reaction is to take a seed into the workshop and produce a plant, then I'd be imagining the dwarf taking a seed into the workshop, planting it and just sitting there waiting. Which is strange.)?
Will being a better farmer make a plant grow faster (since increased skill leads to faster reactions)?
Not that I don't like the idea. Just pointing out some head scratchers here and there.
Post by: Seriyu on October 30, 2011, 10:41:24 pm
Post by: Pan on October 31, 2011, 12:23:48 am
It can be very difficult to get irrigation in areas without rivers, and having a farm in a safe area (IE, not in the caverns or outside, which can be difficult on riverless maps) can be a huge boon. I could definatly see them making more uninhabitable areas a bit easier to live in.
But by the time your at tier 4, you would have been in the game for quite some time already, therefore already having a food source.
I like the idea, and I'm just pointing out some 'against' arguments.
Post by: Fairin on October 31, 2011, 01:13:07 am
maybe make it a -tame- animal spawn and train it as a war animal
make adamantite golem requires 10 wafers 2 abysal eyes -- or rainbow diamonds! walking tank of destruction (as would your dwarf be with 10 wafers of adamantite)
fun way to "weaponize" other metals, along with giveing that option of "fodder" troops or gate guards that dont totally 'suck'
or a full blown golem defense...
i wouldnt suggest making it equipable and assignable to squads. that sounds kind of .. irritateing
Golem foundry tier 1 - copper - bronze - lead golems! (small - weak- say 1/2 size of dwarf)
golem manufactory tier 2 silver gold steel (medium size average - dwarfish)
golem Enchantory tier 3, mithril addy damascus steel? (large size (twice dwarf - strong tougher)
say tier 4 smelts golems (and corpses of) back down to base materials? - with minor chance of failure - possible loss of gem / other resources
editnote - resource idea as well . make ethereal spheres a component? . and make them more common? (never .. ever seen an ethereal sphere in my forts, dozens of phantasmal statues tho!)
Post by: SirAaronIII on October 31, 2011, 01:17:34 am
Post by: Fairin on October 31, 2011, 01:19:54 am
and for numerous times before -.- i do -lurk- abunch on the forums but never seen it mentioned
Post by: SirAaronIII on October 31, 2011, 01:52:22 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: narhiril on October 31, 2011, 09:34:03 am
It can be very difficult to get irrigation in areas without rivers, and having a farm in a safe area (IE, not in the caverns or outside, which can be difficult on riverless maps) can be a huge boon. I could definatly see them making more uninhabitable areas a bit easier to live in.
But by the time your at tier 4, you would have been in the game for quite some time already, therefore already having a food source.
I like the idea, and I'm just pointing out some 'against' arguments.
The advantage would be the ability to farm above-ground plants in biomes that don't support that, as well as give you a bit of a tighter control on your food supply (which, if you're like me, can get out of hand). Of course, you'll need a food source to keep you going until then. I haven't quite worked out the logistics of this workshop yet - I will probably end up using a "percent yield" system (i.e. plant 10 seeds, get 5 plants, plant 10 seeds with fertilizer, get 10-15 plants, etc).
Post by: Putnam on October 31, 2011, 12:06:28 pm
not possible for a workshop to "create" an animal through a reaction?
and for numerous times before -.- i do -lurk- abunch on the forums but never seen it mentioned
MY BUTTON!
Post by: trees on October 31, 2011, 02:43:57 pm
MY BUTTON!
We really need a stickied thread with a list of things that can't be done with modding (yet) or something similar.
Post by: narhiril on October 31, 2011, 06:27:07 pm
The process of exactly how this is done involves creating a large number of "dummy" products out of a special material that vaporizes at room temperature - similar to the alchemical disasters, but without any ill effects. As a result, don't be too alarmed if you see a white puff of smoke coming out of some of your training workshops in the next version. A dwarf caught in a "burst of the pungent scent of progress" is in no danger. These reactions will still produce a slab of accreditation, as usual.
Modifying this old reaction with a new byproduct has also given me a reliable means for finishing another concept. It is now possible for me to create "prayer" reactions that advance a skill by a variable amount (using percentage-chance products of this new material). Conceivably, a dwarf could pray to Armok for a weapon skill with which to slaughter his enemies, and possibly receive a substantial bonus in a weapon skill (or possibly have all of the skin peel off of his face - Armok is a fickle god). The only thing I haven't tested is the impact that creation and subsequent removal of a large (more than 20) number of rapidly-evaporating products has on performance. Hopefully it's not anything worse than a minor hiccup.
Spoiler: Current (confirmed) changelog for v0.14e (click to show/hide)
This is a current (running) changelog of all currently COMPLETED features - it does not include a number of things that I want it to include as of yet. I will update this with new features as they are completed.
Post by: SalmonGod on November 01, 2011, 08:20:45 pm
Post by: Pan on November 02, 2011, 02:06:33 am
Post by: narhiril on November 02, 2011, 03:18:33 am
I saw something about lagging for Nephilim caravans on the front page just now. What's with that?
Its an issue I noticed in a recent test fortress that seems to accompany the nephilim pack animals, causing the game to hiccup when they try to fly after their leaders - temporary, but irritating. It's fixed for 0.14e. I'm debating whether or not to split the upcoming release into 0.14e and 0.15a, so the poll will probably be changed sometime this week. The latter (unfinished) part of this update includes a rather exciting new building that could conceivably take a few weeks to fully hammer out, test, and tweak. It plays with some concepts I haven't yet tested thoroughly, including some new materials, ammunition, and a really bizarre idea for a piece of armor that may or may not end up working out.
"Tank" war pets will be included in 0.14e, but I have not yet decided on which animal or fictional creature to use as a base yet. The armadillo was the first thing that came to mind, but I don't know how other people will feel about dwarf-sized armadillos accompanying their legions into battle. Whatever I do end up deciding on, I'll make sure to make it immune to empyrean carbuncle friendly fire.
Will v0.14e include updated Ironhand graphics?
If and only if I can get permission for hosting them. More on this as soon as its available.
Post by: TheLinguist on November 02, 2011, 03:27:29 am
The armadillo was the first thing that came to mind, but I don't know how other people will feel about dwarf-sized armadillos accompanying their legions into battle.
Surely there's gotta be some extinct megafauna relative you can use... Ah, here we go, maybe a glyptodon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glyptodon)?
Post by: Imp on November 02, 2011, 04:09:51 am
The armadillo was the first thing that came to mind, but I don't know how other people will feel about dwarf-sized armadillos accompanying their legions into battle.
Surely there's gotta be some extinct megafauna relative you can use... Ah, here we go, maybe a glyptodon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glyptodon)?
I'd be fine with that, myself. Or a glyptodon, sure sure. I admit to a certain fondness for the idea of pygmy ankylosaurus though...
Post by: Pan on November 02, 2011, 09:00:20 am
Though the whole 'prehistoric creatures' thing we have here sticks well with the theme here. Hints that your not the first kinds of creature to walk the earth, and these are the remnants of the older beasts that have come and gone before you. (sentinels, sabre tigers and these armadillos from Ice Age)
Post by: Dohon on November 02, 2011, 10:11:21 am
Found here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arctodus
Still a mammal, but a bear about 3 meters tall and weighing over a ton ... Seems dwarfy to me.
EDIT: Some other fearsome critters over here:
http://www.environmentalgraffiti.com/anthropology-and-history/news-five-less-well-known-equally-savage-prehistoric-predators
Post by: narhiril on November 02, 2011, 11:30:27 pm
Post by: Imp on November 03, 2011, 02:51:12 am
Was showing my roommate who doesn't play some of the more enjoyable aspects of the game. He likes blood, and started walking by the screen at random times and calling out "blood" whenever he thought he saw some (quite atmospheric, he's a cleric of Armok or something without even knowing). Often he was wrong, so I'd k over this thing or that to show him what it was.
Most of my bloody squares were on grass, and was showing him the texture difference compared to other non-bloody red or reddish squares. Suddenly he pointed to one of the bloody tiles and said it wasn't blood. I showed him that it was bloody, and he stubbornly insisted it wasn't the pattern of blood, so we both looked closer.
Soon he was tantruming, because the texture of blood on grass looks like a bloodied sand tile "should" - and the texture of blood on sand matches the texture of grass tiles. He continues to tantrum in the background as I type this, so I'm off to have another meeting with him.
Post by: TheLinguist on November 03, 2011, 03:09:01 am
Post by: SirAaronIII on November 03, 2011, 06:42:58 pm
Post by: narhiril on November 04, 2011, 08:57:01 pm
---
Glyptodon - Seen here. (http://www.schleich-s.de/cms_schleich/cms_bilder/detail/16522.jpg)
A nice, "prehistoric" version of the armadillo. [ThatLinguist's suggestion]
---
Pygmy Ankylosaurus - Seen here. (http://bucketfoot-al.tripod.com/DinoModels/Kanky5a.JPG)
A smaller version of one of my favorite dinosaurs, armored and ready. [Imp's suggestion]
---
Arctodus - Seen here. (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/bd/ArctodusSimusReconstruct.jpg/220px-ArctodusSimusReconstruct.jpg)
A giant prehistoric bear. I like this creature a lot, but I'm not sure it really fits the role of a "tank" pet that I wanted here. Nevertheless, a candidate for possible inclusion anyway. [Dohon's suggestion]
---
Giant Armadillo - Seen here. (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b4/Nine-banded_Armadillo.jpg)
An inflated version of the common armored mammal. Recognizable, but lacks some of the originality seen in other LFR creatures - and I'm not sure if Toady plans to include these on his own in the future.
---
Megalania - Seen here. (http://www.artistwd.com/joyzine/australia/articles/megafauna/images/megalania_prisca.jpg)
Immense progenitor of the modern monitor lizard.
Post by: trees on November 04, 2011, 09:07:32 pm
I think armadillos are actually one of the donation animals that are coming up in the next release? Not positive, but I seem to recall Toady mentioning armadillos curling up in to a ball as an example of an interaction.
Post by: Imp on November 04, 2011, 10:17:50 pm
Even unseen, I continue to like the Ankylosaurus (I'd like them even if you made them scabrous and fragile, I simply like them)!
Arctodus is fine, who wouldn't want a "better bear"? And Megalania - who wouldn't want a better (possibly less aquatic) alligator? But those don't really seem tanky to me. (sure thick hair and tough scales can tank quite well, I suppose! I just notice other traits about them)
I really like the glyptodon's appearance, but I have the same hesitation towards it that I do towards the uglier giant armadillo. I don't see these critters as fighters. Curling up into a ball, the body-language equivalent of screaming Don't Hit Me and surviving in the fight is.... probably perfect for the goal. Tankers who do not actually fight back (at least not much) and an amusing thought too.
I just like the idea of the little ankyls screaming Don't Hit Me while shaking and flailing their tails about (occasionally doing some hefty bashing in the process) even more.
Post by: narhiril on November 04, 2011, 10:23:38 pm
When I try to see the pygmy, http://bucketfoot-al.tripod.com/DinoModels/Kanky5a.JPG - I see only an image hosted message, but no image can be seen.
Even unseen, I continue to like the Ankylosaurus (I'd like them even if you made them scabrous and fragile, I simply like them)!
Arctodus is fine, who wouldn't want a "better bear"? And Megalania - who wouldn't want a better (possibly less aquatic) alligator? But those don't really seem tanky to me. (sure thick hair and tough scales can tank quite well, I suppose! I just notice other traits about them)
I really like the glyptodon's appearance, but I have the same hesitation towards it that I do towards the uglier giant armadillo. I don't see these critters as fighters. Curling up into a ball, the body-language equivalent of screaming Don't Hit Me and surviving in the fight is.... probably perfect for the goal. Tankers who do not actually fight back (at least not much) and an amusing thought too.
I just like the idea of the little ankyls screaming Don't Hit Me while shaking and flailing their tails about (occasionally doing some hefty bashing in the process) even more.
Odd, that image works fine for me. Here's (http://www.sciencephoto.com/image/117416/large/C0053494-Ankylosaur_family,_artwork-SPL.jpg) another one.
Post by: Imp on November 04, 2011, 11:15:25 pm
Odd, that image works fine for me. Here's (http://www.sciencephoto.com/image/117416/large/C0053494-Ankylosaur_family,_artwork-SPL.jpg) another one.
Woo, can see this one, thanks!
Post by: narhiril on November 04, 2011, 11:33:23 pm
Did a couple sprites for the ankylosaur... child, adult, skeleton, zombie, war-trained.
Not sure if I will end up using these, but it's something to test with.
Post by: Pan on November 05, 2011, 07:29:20 am
Only that... well, creatures in the caverns are usually very random. I remembered when sabre tooth tigers were first introduced as tamable cavern creatures, I barely saw any and only used them when they were embarkable pets.
Anyway, what are your plans for the next release, Narhiril?
Post by: SalmonGod on November 05, 2011, 05:24:28 pm
Post by: Dohon on November 06, 2011, 05:02:06 am
Post by: astianax on November 06, 2011, 05:51:58 pm
also agree with pan on the "we should get them all, anyway!" (yay, more work for the narhiril, as if she needs it). admittedly, the bear and lizard don't look very tankish to me, but they'd still be fun and maybe even useful (though, again, i like the idea of only the tanker type being a starter domestic). the megalania just has me picturing them used as riding beasts and wagonpullers, but i'm pretty sure that's my drow addiction shining through...
Post by: Pan on November 06, 2011, 09:12:44 pm
Post by: narhiril on November 07, 2011, 02:38:30 am
With such a variety of creatures underground, we're pretty much being promised by the laws of probability that some will show up in the underground caverns and perhaps even in the cage traps.
On this note, I'm severely reducing the frequency of zingers in the caverns. They still exist down there, but they were appearing far too frequently. Its not that I don't want them to be easily available, its that they really mess with hunters down there, and until you kill them (dangerous), nothing else will wander onto the map. Migrants will sometimes bring zingers as pets, and the caravan and embark screen both sell them for fairly cheap, so getting a hold of them shouldn't be too difficult even with this change in place.
I'm thinking I'll probably go ahead and split this into two releases, as some of the features I wanted to include are still very much in conceptual and preliminary testing phases. 0.14e will add ankylosaurs and make a number of tweaks and bug fixes, including a much-needed fix for those damned nephilim caravans (lol). After a few more days of testing and working around my school schedule, I can probably have this up by Friday.
0.15a, as I'm calling it, looks like it isn't going to wait for Dwarf Fortress to update. 0.15a will include an expansion of the third tier of the tech tree (which currently only contains the crystal growth tank), with some new technologies, some combat-oriented, some not. More on that later.
Post by: Pan on November 07, 2011, 10:12:14 am
Anyway, you want to make a list of the things your willing to reveal for the next version? Get the crowd excited?
Post by: narhiril on November 07, 2011, 06:11:27 pm
Aww... so the other cool creatures won't be seen in the caverns? That's a shame.
Anyway, you want to make a list of the things your willing to reveal for the next version? Get the crowd excited?
I never said they won't be seen, just that they're not done yet. I might squeeze one or two more in if I get time.
Updated Running Change Log for 0.14e (subject to further additions or modifications as necessary)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
).Post by: narhiril on November 07, 2011, 09:37:55 pm
---
LFR Technology Tree Tier 3
ADVANCED ALCHEMY LAB
A large workshop requiring a number of reagents to build, including glass vials, a precision caster, precision tools, and several black and yellow crystalline blocks to warn off passers by. This is the site for the majority of the tier three upgrades and development.
The advanced alchemy lab (AAL) specializes in reactions involving a few new metals - specifically (and subject to modification) neodymium, mercury, palladium, and cobalt. Cobalt can be refined from cobaltite and mercury from cinnabar, while neodymium and palladium will come from two new types of stone (monazite and braggite). Because of the special properties of these metals, they will need to be smelted in a special environment - the regular old alchemy lab seems a good candidate. The reason for this is that two of the ores already exist as regular stones in the game, and I would prefer not to touch those raws if I don't have to for compatibility's sake.
I am on the fence as to how risky I want to make this process - in real life, cobalt is notorious for causing allergic reactions, palladium is poisonous, mercury is a known neurotoxin, and neodymium has a habit of spontaneously exploding - but since this is Dwarf Fortress and dwarves are made of sterner stuff (no lead poisoning, right?), I might decide not to add any more risk to a workshop that already seems to have a habit of bursting into flame from time to time. Although, admittedly, the neurotoxin might be fun.
Because these ores are both rare and essential for later tech tree concepts, the experimental materials workshop will be receiving a reaction to process stone in search of trace metals, which will consume stones for a (low, but not too low) chance at producing one of these ores.
The advanced alchemy lab has some more reactions planned, but they aren't yet well tested or set in stone. But, in case you were wondering, one of the reactions will involve...
Spoiler: ...those things... (click to show/hide)
...that you may have noticed lying around from time to time if you've been breeding large numbers of carbuncles.
---
The actual uses of these metals is currently not available for much comment, as there are a few experimental ideas I want to try out before I promise anything really cool that I may or may not be able to deliver right away. However, to get you guys thinking on the right track, here are some possible uses for the metals...
Cobalt is heat resistant, and an anti-corrosive when alloyed with other metals. This isn't relevant in Dwarf Fortress right now, but makes cobalt a useful metal for use in medicine and high-temperature machinery. More advanced mechanical workshops and contraptions (and siege weapons, WAY down the road) will likely call for this material.
Mercury has a number of odd properties, the most notable being that it is liquid at room temperature. While I have not yet quite figured out the logistics of how this will work in game, I'd imagine a dwarf could find something interesting to do with a heavy, conducting liquid - assuming of course, he doesn't inhale too much of it.
Palladium is a component of catalytic converters, which turn highly dangerous chemicals into more benign components. Palladium will be required in fair quantities for another workshop I had in mind down the road, where the same reactions performed without a palladium protective component will yield results both productive and deadly. In other words, there are reactions planned in the future with possible deadly outcomes which can be prevented by using palladium tools. The cheap researcher ends up paying the heftier price.
Neodymium is my favorite new metal. Alloyed with iron (and boron, technically, but this is being left out for simplicity's sake), neodymium creates an extremely powerful permanent magnet. That's all I'm going to say about that right now. ;)
---
I'm curious as to what you guys (and/or girls) think about these concepts, as I might find them exciting, but some of you might find the ideas of dwarven experiments with chemicals, electricity, and magnetism to be a bit out of universe, which is not the goal of LFR. These technologies are, indeed, well beyond the simple ore smelters and stone gears of the default version, but will, in practice, likely take years of in-game progression to unlock and (later) effectively use, during which time your enemies will grow both more numerous and more deadly.
As an end result of the LFR tech and ritual trees, you may end up barely on even footing with LFR's greatest of enemies, which can be just enough to tip the scales of your heroic endeavor towards a lasting legacy, but I can promise you that LFR will never become "easy." If you get too many new tricks up your sleeve, expect your enemies to get some as well down the road. The voidwalkers have a few nasty, unreleased technologies waiting for a worthy opponent, and the shedim haven't even popped their heads out of the woodwork yet.
:D
Post by: Jilladilla on November 08, 2011, 12:04:21 am
[NAME:conjure voidshard]
[BUILDING:METAL_CHEAT:CUSTOM_V]
[PRODUCT:100:1:STONE:NO_SUBTYPE:INORGANIC:SANDSTONE]
[PRODUCT:100:1:BAR:NO_SUBTYPE:METAL:VOIDSHARD][PRODUCT_DIMENSION:150]
is it intentional to just give the lizardmen voidshard?
downloaded the pre installed ironhand file thing...
Post by: narhiril on November 08, 2011, 12:33:08 am
Fixed for 0.14e. In the meantime, enjoy your *glistening voidshard pitchforks,* their days are numbered.
Post by: Putnam on November 08, 2011, 12:37:02 am
just going to leave these here for later :P
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/13790475/inorganic_metal_two.txt
This is every elemental metal I could get data for that wasn't too radioactive. It's as accurate as I believe it gets. I'm not sure, though. Since you're using cobalt for uses OTHER than weaponry, however, you could probably use my pre-existing one (it's actually about as good as iron!). Just save some trouble.
Post by: Pan on November 08, 2011, 05:00:08 am
But anyway, to properly combat enemies, I think you should include powerful weapons throughout the technology tree.
Post by: Jilladilla on November 08, 2011, 05:11:53 am
With the rest of the militia away, one swordsdwarf stood alone against a lasher squad led by a bowmen, due to his extraordinary skill with his weapon, he blocked almost every attack that went against him, and his hardrine chest plate soaked up most of the rest. When he turned his attention to the bowman, an arrow broke his leg, and his arms... and his other leg, and before he could strike the bowman he colasped right in front of him (no seriously and the goblin kept spawning arrows to shoot him with!). Eventually one of the hammerdwarves came back and easily dispatched the bowman... The swordsdwarf survived the battle, but his wounds were too great... A few months later, he succumbed to them... He is currently resting in the Hall of Legends for his sacrifice.
Yep only in dwarf fortress, and ill say this: You made an awesome mod :D
Post by: narhiril on November 08, 2011, 02:11:56 pm
How will the enemies get more deadly? They'll get more numerous, yes...
But anyway, to properly combat enemies, I think you should include powerful weapons throughout the technology tree.
I won't say too much, because a lot of it is waiting on new features (specifically the expansion of the syndrome system), and mobile siege weaponry down the road. It won't just be the voidwalkers either - even the good old lizardmen and bog trolls will be getting some new toys. Bog trolls will be getting giant weapons, lizardmen will be getting poison darts (they technically already HAVE poison darts, but the poisons they use are pretty weak and don't usually work), and voidwalkers will be getting a variety of upgrades in the future to keep them challenging. There are a lot of things I can tweak here to make existing creatures tougher as the dwarven race moves forward.
welli havent been too screwed by this yet, then again i havent been sieged by them yet, my militia takes out lizardman/goblin ambushes fairly easily, only lost one dwarf, quite a story too, how he died...
With the rest of the militia away, one swordsdwarf stood alone against a lasher squad led by a bowmen, due to his extraordinary skill with his weapon, he blocked almost every attack that went against him, and his hardrine chest plate soaked up most of the rest. When he turned his attention to the bowman, an arrow broke his leg, and his arms... and his other leg, and before he could strike the bowman he colasped right in front of him (no seriously and the goblin kept spawning arrows to shoot him with!). Eventually one of the hammerdwarves came back and easily dispatched the bowman... The swordsdwarf survived the battle, but his wounds were too great... A few months later, he succumbed to them... He is currently resting in the Hall of Legends for his sacrifice.
Yep only in dwarf fortress, and ill say this: You made an awesome mod :D
Stuff like this keeps me going. Thanks, I really do appreciate it.
So uh
just going to leave these here for later :P
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/13790475/inorganic_metal_two.txt
This is every elemental metal I could get data for that wasn't too radioactive. It's as accurate as I believe it gets. I'm not sure, though. Since you're using cobalt for uses OTHER than weaponry, however, you could probably use my pre-existing one (it's actually about as good as iron!). Just save some trouble.
This is beautiful and will save me a LOT of work. Thanks a bunch, I'll be sure to give you due credit.
Now, unfortunately, I have quite a bit of work to do before I can get around to my Dwarf Fortress agenda for the day. Today, testing ankylosaurs in combat, testing cavern wildlife, and some final tweaks to LFR's megabeasts (wyvern, behemoth, land mover, manticore).
If I get around to it, I'd like to figure out for the sake of myself and the community exactly what the SOAP_LEVEL token does - if it does what I think it does, it *might* be possible to create a cure for infections (no promises there) - but that might be too ambitious a project for one day. :\
Post by: Pan on November 09, 2011, 12:22:43 am
You mentioned cavern wildlife? You mean the list of prehistorical 'tanks' that was subject to discussion earlier on?
Post by: narhiril on November 09, 2011, 12:48:12 am
So I heard that crystalline blocks are of more value than a stone block. If so, will it make the room it is in more valuable when it is constructed there as a floor or wall? (I know, you can engrave normal rock. But I want the temples to be color coded for aesthetic purposes, and a shrine of victory in a mudstone cave is less inspiring than one in a crystal paved room.)
You mentioned cavern wildlife? You mean the list of prehistorical 'tanks' that was subject to discussion earlier on?
Not all of them yet - haven't had time. Ankylosaurs are basically done and ready to go aside from the graphic - I still can't decide if I should remake that or not. I'm working on megalania right now, which wont take me too long, using cave crocodile as a base and changing or "enhancing" a few things. Still need to do graphics for those, but that isn't that big a deal, either. Unfortunately, today and tomorrow are very busy days for me (lots of due dates), so this stuff that would normally only take me a few hours will take three to four days. Megabeast tweaks turned out to go a lot smoother than expected, which will help speed things along.
Crystalline blocks are worth 9, if i remember correctly (i can't remember off the top of my head lol), while regular stone is 3. So yes, a room of crystalline block constructions is more valuable than anything but some very well-engraved stone. In short, you shouldn't have trouble keeping value up even if you want to pave everything with crystalline blocks.
Post by: Imp on November 09, 2011, 03:53:55 am
(http://i.imgur.com/YgC17.png)
Did a couple sprites for the ankylosaur... child, adult, skeleton, zombie, war-trained.
Not sure if I will end up using these, but it's something to test with.
For what it's worth, I really like the ankyl sprites you showed.
I think I can guess why you might not be 100% content with them... I suspect that has a lot to do with the fact that if you showed those sprites to 20 random people and asked what it was, maybe 19-20 would not guess ankylosaur.... or even guess dinosaur. I bet the most common answer would be "... some sort of animal? I don't know, that doesn't look like anything I've ever seen before...."
This is quite ok with me, because for the average person, ankylosaur is not a concept floating around their head. They "can't" think of it when they see the pic, because expectations are rather limiting.
But, if you said, "hey, do you think this is an ankylosaur?" a good 75% or so of those who know what one is would probably say something like "Oh! Yeah, I think that might be one.... cant be anything else, can it?"
Besides, these are pygmy ankylosaurs. Why wouldn't some dimensions change? Small dogs have rather different conformations, colors, and mannerisms than large dogs do... why wouldn't some miniature dino breeds be slightly different from the full-sized type, and even carry their tails curled upwards most of the time? (Being smaller, the weight of the tail tip is far less of an issue even - maybe every ankyl would carry their tail up if only it wasn't quite so heavy?)
Those sprites fit into my imagination well. They're interesting. The colors used, for each one of them, form a harmonious whole that's pleasing to my eye. I'll be quite happy if you decide to use those sprites... though I'll probably applaud any other choice you make too (while missing the ankyls that almost were ;))
Post by: Pan on November 09, 2011, 04:54:42 am
Post by: narhiril on November 09, 2011, 11:06:28 pm
Post by: Imp on November 09, 2011, 11:52:59 pm
A quick update. Megalania are done and ready to go - you can't embark with them because they're quite huge and strong, but you can capture them in any cavern level, and the will be easier to find now that zingers have been made less common. Once captured, they can be bred and trained without a dungeon master. Seeing as my weather-dependent event on Saturday has been postponed, expect 0.14e on Friday.
*shout of glee* And with that, you've made my weekend 8)
Though I'm sorry to hear that your weekend was unmade!
Post by: Pan on November 10, 2011, 07:27:51 am
Just a thought I've had.
Post by: GaxkangtheUnbound on November 10, 2011, 08:27:27 pm
Blessed Seeds.
Idea:
You can offer seeds of a certain type to the Altar of Nature, and get a chance of blessed seeds in return. These seeds grow about twice as fast as normal crops and can be grown any time of year. I see no imbalance in this as long as the chance to get blessed seeds is at least semi-rare.
Effort Needed: Medium
All it would require is to duplicate the raws for each plant, rename it, and change the growth duration and seasons. After that, the reactions would have to be made.
Post by: Putnam on November 11, 2011, 12:05:18 am
You can choose to sacrifice certain things during pray (through different reactions) or nothing at all.
Sacrificing nothing at all is liable to get you a nethack-like "deathgas everywhere from godly wrath" result.
Sacrificing a good amount (can't take quality into account, unfortunately) is likely to get you the good stuff. Armor, etc.
Post by: IamanElfCollaborator on November 11, 2011, 10:21:39 am
Post by: Fairin on November 11, 2011, 12:48:40 pm
expect 0.14e on Friday.
*WhipCrack* hurry up and make my weekend already !!! >: ) its almost 1pm est !
er... nevermind.. swtor finally sent me the email >: )
Post by: Fairin on November 12, 2011, 12:06:16 pm
Post by: Dohon on November 12, 2011, 12:42:31 pm
Post by: narhiril on November 12, 2011, 07:08:30 pm
0.14e is now uploaded and should be good to go. Those of you using the simplified clothing plug-in will find an updated version of that file as well in the test raw download link off the front page (the usual spot). As usual, please report any bugs, anomalies, comments, or technical difficulties to this thread or to me via private message, and I'll get them resolved as soon as I can.
Enjoy :)
Post by: trees on November 12, 2011, 08:57:49 pm
I haven't played this mod in a while, been a tad busy with my own personal attempts. I think I'll start a new fortress tonight!
Post by: Pan on November 12, 2011, 09:57:51 pm
In future, don't apologize about being sick or anything. Sort of demeaning for you, isn't it? ;)
Post by: narhiril on November 13, 2011, 05:43:29 am
Quick bug report: the raws only download of the new version contains an "item_food_narhiril.txt" and an "item_food_narhiril.txt.txt," causing duplicate errors.
I haven't played this mod in a while, been a tad busy with my own personal attempts. I think I'll start a new fortress tonight!
Thank you, good catch. Re-uploaded with this issue resolved. If you have downloaded (either raw-only or pre-installed) before the time stamp on this post (~10 of you), please go ahead and just delete that duplicate file.
Post by: Dohon on November 13, 2011, 05:57:58 am
Post by: Weaselcake on November 13, 2011, 07:03:35 am
Post by: narhiril on November 13, 2011, 10:18:05 am
Gonna download this and play once I have some more time. Soon, I hope. :) Have you already added the updated Ironhand Graphics set and the Wheel Barrow mod, Narhiril? Or are those future additions? And what are your intentions regarding the Simplified Clothing plugin? Because I'm loving that. ;)
bdog's wheelbarrows are coming along next version, but the new Ironhand graphics are already included.
Simplified clothing is pretty much done, though it will continue to see updates to keep it compatible. It seems to have a measurable effect on performance, presumably because clothing items are one of the game's biggest contributors to lag. In the future, there will likely be more of these little plug-in components. I am considering doing the first versions of the shedim as a plug-in component, so that people can test them, but aren't stuck with them and any associated issues that haven't been ironed out.
Which reminds me, I eventually need to move the SC download to a more permanent link (instead of the test raw spot). I'll let everybody know when that happens, though.
Can someone explain how to add this to the Lazy Newb Pack without any issue? I want to try this mod but I can't really play DF without the LNP. :(
The Ironhand release is a full copy of DF v0.31.25 with Ironhand graphics v0.60 and LFR v0.14e installed. If you're familiar with DF already, it's really just opening the folder and firing up the executable to jump right in. Any utilities (dwarf therapist, dfhack, perfectworlddf, etc) should continue to run without any problems. The init and d_init files might need to be tweaked for your preferences and local machine, but both of those files (found within "LFR Ironhand Graphics Edition v0.14e/data/init") contain some documentation to assist you with those changes, if necessary.
Unfortunately, if you're fond of another graphics set, LFR doesn't currently support anything but Ironhand or ASCII, with some limited (i.e. minerals and plants, but not workshops) support for Phoebus. Wider graphics support is something that's on the "to do" list, somewhere down the road.
Post by: Fairin on November 14, 2011, 09:50:23 am
Apologies, guys and gals, but I ended up having to rush my friend to the hospital with pneumonia last night. Fortunately, she's alright now, but that took up all of my time yesterday that I was planning to use for this release. I haven't gotten Skyrim yet simply because I don't have $60 to spend on it this week, so, while a good guess, that isn't my excuse this time.
Enjoy :)
thats not an excuse, thats a damned good reason. and you don't need an excuse for us Narhiril.
good to hear shes lookin up
just a warning tho.. skyrim has that addiction effect.. just one more corner.. one more horizon... one more quest...
Post by: narhiril on November 15, 2011, 02:33:11 am
Spoiler: Some spoiler-related news (click to show/hide)
Post by: Pan on November 15, 2011, 06:19:15 am
The megalania, on the other hand, are quite tough and can deflect iron weaponry with their skin!
Post by: narhiril on November 15, 2011, 02:58:40 pm
A little size and ability reference chart.
Dwarf = 60k
Dog = 30k, weak defense, mediocre offense, embarkable.
Sabre-tooth tiger = 425k, weak defense, very powerful offense, breeds and matures quickly, embarkable.
Pygmy ankylosaur = 90k, strong defense (~bronze), mediocre offense, lays eggs, embarkable.
Megalania = 600k, very strong defense (between iron and steel), very powerful offense, lays eggs.
Spoiler: "Special" war animals (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Other LFR creatures that you might be curious about (click to show/hide)
Post by: Pan on November 15, 2011, 07:42:15 pm
Post by: astianax on November 15, 2011, 09:00:57 pm
anyway, i looked through the legends for it and stumbled across this nephilim god, who seems to have a whole civ named after him
Germen Futuregrowth the Strapping Fountain of Seeds was a deity that occurs in the myths of the Master of Pregnancy. Germen was most often depicted as a male nephal and was associated with fertility
Post by: narhiril on November 15, 2011, 09:47:33 pm
Sabre toothed tigers are ~10% of the size of elephants (elephants are 5000k). Real sabre-toothed tigers weighed over half a ton, so this didn't seem like an unrealistic size to me, considering that "size" is some vague amalgamation of weight, height, volume, etc.
Here's a (poorly drawn) approximation of the sizes of some of these creatures.
Spoiler: Image (click to show/hide)
Post by: Pan on November 15, 2011, 11:41:27 pm
Post by: Putnam on November 15, 2011, 11:43:05 pm
Post by: Fairin on November 16, 2011, 04:01:38 am
Post by: narhiril on November 16, 2011, 11:27:56 am
great the statue of liberty is going to rampage through my 1 tile wide 1 z-level high fortress hallway .. >< there goes my immersion!!!
Well... sorry. If there was a way to make multi-tile creatures, you can be certain that these would be among them.
If it helps restore a little of your immersion, I also find it worth noting that "size" is an ambiguous token - it's some amalgamation of weight, volume, height, etc. which is left to the imagination. When someone says "the size of the statue of liberty," we usually think of height and volume, but it is possible for a much "smaller" object to be very heavy and therefore to be considered the same "size" in Dwarf Fortress. Think of a lead washer and a tin can - the can is hundreds of times larger in volume, but the washer exceeds it in weight. Demons are very heavy, whereas the statue of liberty is a hollow shell of iron and copper. Make of that what you will. :)
It seems about time to change the poll. I think I mentioned it a while back, so let me find out what exactly it was that I wanted to poll before I actually go ahead and push that.
Post by: narhiril on November 16, 2011, 10:05:16 pm
For those of you who want to try the challenge, a unique weapon drops from these creatures. Only attempt to fight these with the best possible gear and skills - anything short of ether, voidshard, hadrine, or adamantine will get shredded like paper. They're meant to be an extremely challenging enemy to keep you on your toes if you want to go hunting for some of LFR's deepest secrets, some more of which I am currently testing. :)
Post by: Imp on November 17, 2011, 02:07:59 am
Had my laptop today in class..... many exciting words of delightful and horrible future adventures to come, stories to live and fear through... :)
Impet cheers words of encouragement and delight, mind filled with wonder and expectation.
I'm so glad you've made, and continue to make, this mod. Hip hip huzzah for awesomeness already extant and more that is still coalescing!
Post by: Jilladilla on November 17, 2011, 03:29:02 pm
anything short of ether, voidshard, hadrine, or adamantine will get shredded like paper.
:o
So will D-steel be able to do something?
Hope so, I like my steel... a lot... :(
(I'm too conservative with candy... far far too conservative... :-\)
Oh and keep it up narhiril! I can't play DF without this mod anymore!
Post by: GaxkangtheUnbound on November 20, 2011, 12:26:24 pm
His description?
Quote
A short, sturdy creature fond of drink and industry. He is a bit simple-minded, but likes to experiment and constantly mutters the the word ☼enchantment☼.Very clever reference, Narhiril.
EDIT: Not only is he a master alchemist, he is also an expert weaponsmith. How lucky I am!
Post by: narhiril on November 20, 2011, 05:51:29 pm
So, I get this dwarf as a migrant, and he happens to be a savant.
His description?QuoteA short, sturdy creature fond of drink and industry. He is a bit simple-minded, but likes to experiment and constantly mutters the the word ☼enchantment☼.Very clever reference, Narhiril.
EDIT: Not only is he a master alchemist, he is also an expert weaponsmith. How lucky I am!
Teehee :)
anything short of ether, voidshard, hadrine, or adamantine will get shredded like paper.
:o
So will D-steel be able to do something?
Hope so, I like my steel... a lot... :(
(I'm too conservative with candy... far far too conservative... :-\)
Oh and keep it up narhiril! I can't play DF without this mod anymore!
D-steel will still help immensely versus wrestling and blunt force calculations that tend to get thrown around in combat with these creatures, but be aware that their claws, at least, are capable of penetrating it. Don't worry, though, you'll most likely have your ears filled with candy by the time these ever become a problem. The more important aspect of combat here is to just try to keep the numbers even. :)
Post by: Pan on November 24, 2011, 08:30:10 am
Post by: astianax on November 24, 2011, 03:33:00 pm
i've been enjoying my priests quite a bit. they even got their rooms built and smoothed before my starting seven (and before any migrants even showed up). been shoving dwarves with fairly high mentals but likes (blue jay tooth...) that keep them from becoming baron candidates into my religious cadres and decorating their rooms and those with the shrines, altars, and temples (well...temple, currently) with statues of the various gods. i *did* add one building, a meditation garden, so that they could work on their concentration skill in other ways than just "pray at a shrine, stick it on repeat"
oh, and on another note, i know the pegasus isn't technically yours, but it's missing a preference string. one of my recent migrants pointed that out to me. he "likes pegasoi for their " (i put in 'feathery wings' 'cause couldn't think of anything better at the time)
also, i'm loving the ankylosaurs. mine seem to one shot any thief they encounter, even a few voidwalker ones, which caught me offguard. and they do seem to be able to take quite a beating from sieges/ambushes while the other war critters wade in and start with the dismembering (and occasionally getting tripped up on giant spider silk the tarantulas shoot everywhere)
Post by: Pan on November 25, 2011, 12:21:40 am
Post by: astianax on November 25, 2011, 07:27:00 am
and, on silk, i'm a bit of a silk addict, myself. have seven or eight different spiders ranging from cat to horse size, at least that many vermin spiders, and two non-spider silk producing vermin that make hives but aren't artificial-hiveable (they're also pets, which allows bringing some on embark and then having a swarm gather around the cage, producing silk constantly). the cat-sized spider was my next attempt at modding, and replaces cats as my standard vermin hunters.
Post by: Pan on November 25, 2011, 10:09:00 am
Post by: Fairin on November 25, 2011, 11:55:25 am
Post by: Pan on November 25, 2011, 09:17:36 pm
Post by: astianax on November 25, 2011, 11:50:23 pm
and i love decorating things with themed statues. mayor's office always gets statues of the mayor or statues of dwarves doing things for the fortress (the last fortress actually had statues of goblins and elves being killed, goblin and elf skulls, and a tame dragon in the mayor's office). and, now that we've got the religious stuff going on, i build temples, decorated with statues of the deities, for my priests to live and worship in. all the altars and shrines and the temple of fire go in these, themed, if possible. gods of fire and volcanos surround the temple of fire, for example. for me, this'll get even more fun once we get more temples, partially since i read legends mode and try to pick civs with the most interesting deities
my current one has the following:
god of jewels and minerals (standard, boring)
god of darkness
god of light and fortresses (i *almost* chose a civ that had a goddess of darkness and fortresses)
god of wealth (standard, boring)
god of nature, the sun, fire, and metals (sort of odd portfolio, but i can see how they go together in that order)
goddess of disease, death, and war (she's skeletal, and the second most popular deity in the fort)
god of mountains (standard, boring)
god of water
goddess of festivals (oddly, most of her worshipers also worship the death goddess)
goddess of discipline and labor
goddess of murder
i've had much, much odder pantheons, but this post is prob'ly long and dull enough, already. with no real purpose, either
Post by: astianax on November 26, 2011, 12:02:42 am
Post by: Pan on November 26, 2011, 09:53:30 pm
there's always the possibility of incense, too, plant and/or mineral based. incense is very often associated with various religious ceremonies. maybe require certain rituals to burn some types of incense to work, and the burning of it releases...i dunno, a cloud that makes your priest sleepy? disoriented for a bit?
Perhaps using incense for rituals will have better chances of success or better results? (Although this means a lot more custom reactions)
Post by: fire1666 on November 27, 2011, 12:45:20 pm
im trying to edit the entity file for the void walker to alowme to play as them during FORTRESS mode, here is the contence of the file below
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
also when i do embark as them (since i can play as them) i canot have any squands or useless people nobles like milita commanders, can somone tell me whats wrong?
also i dont like repeting my self but i love this mod! keep up the GOOD work! :P
dont worry its fixed now, sry for wasteing time
Post by: narhiril on November 27, 2011, 01:42:33 pm
and i know it's generally bad form to double post like this, but this one is actually lfr related, unlike the above. i finally did a more in-depth poking around in the meowkin raws and saw that they're marked as fishers, but don't have the two fishing-related tags that allow them to bring you fish (i'd sorta been irked that all they bring is plants since cats are carnivorous). said tags are: [RIVER_PRODUCTS] and [OCEAN_PRODUCTS]. dunno if this was intentional or not, so figured i'd just mention it
Good catch (lol puns), this is an oversight. Fixed for next version.
Pan, your ideas for incense and such have not gone unnoticed, but this weekend has been hectic. The only thing I'll be burning today is calories from turkey day - and maybe a relative or two.
Post by: Pan on November 27, 2011, 07:26:09 pm
PanAstianax, your ideas for incense and such have not gone unnoticed...
My idea was that we be able to plant plants that can be processed into wood. (obtain the technology [seeds] via tech tree)
Post by: trees on November 27, 2011, 08:07:21 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
That war that they're locked in with the dwarves has lasted more than eight centuries, and nearly every encounter has ended like that, even when the trolls were drastically outnumbered.
I think I might make a community fort on this world if anyone is interested because I really dig the history.
Post by: Pan on November 27, 2011, 10:07:34 pm
Post by: trees on November 27, 2011, 11:00:53 pm
Post by: Seriyu on November 27, 2011, 11:37:42 pm
Post by: astianax on November 28, 2011, 08:26:33 pm
Post by: narhiril on November 30, 2011, 01:37:34 pm
The new ones are coming along, despite the disappointing lack of caste-level graphics. I've got them ironed out to the point where vibrants and currants are both testable - the currants are very fast (not quite as fast as nephilim though), but lack the size, stamina, or grasp ability of the vibrants. As shown in the concept art, the "head tail" on the back of their skulls is a fully functional, severable body part. I am currently working on discordants, which are weaklings, but carry breath attacks and use a slightly different "two-tailed" head part. I anticipate that these will come along pretty smoothly.
The fun really starts one step up from there, where I have to make ah tels with their four blade arms, which use a highly modified "claw" as a blade - I have some idea of how to do this, but I'm sure some unexpected kinks will come up that I need to iron out. Then, I can get to balancing, which is going to be a headache for such a mixed group of units, but a headache that I am determined to suffer through.
Currently (planned) lineup for the first test release of this component will likely end with ah tels. The castes larger than those are going to take a lot more work to balance and write. Without their capital units, they might even be playable as-is without the diplomatic changes I desire, although the inability to give them caste-level graphics is extremely frustrating to me.
---
For those of you not particularly interested in that development, I thought that this time I've spent messing with body parts and such might be a good opportunity to look back over the aging creature files for LFR's other civs. Voidwalkers in particular could use some work to make them appear more insectoid in origin, like the concepts. I wrote those raws so long ago that I'm sure I can find some things I did that were not necessarily "wrong," but not as well done as they could have been. It also gives me an opportunity to lay some groundwork for future developments there.
Also, expect some future ability for the dwarves to reverse-engineer voidwalker ammunition to some extent. I haven't quite decided which tech tree or what tier I plan to include this ability in, but it will make your artifact fungiwood void energy projectors (which I seem to get all the time) worth something someday. The tech trees are getting to a stage where I can justify more and more creativity - and I like to think that's a good thing.
As some of you may already be aware, LFR will be integrating bdog's wheelbarrows as a feature in future iterations. Head on over to that (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=96088.0) thread for some idea of the basic premise.
That's all for now.
Post by: Pan on November 30, 2011, 10:22:01 pm
I'm still more interested, however, in technology development. Higher technology tree = better weapons? And not just random weapons like the weapon experimental ones? I was thinking weapons with, for example, crossbows attached to it or something. So high tech dwarven soldiers would be dressed in hadrine and voidshard, shoot volleys at charging enemies, then engage in melee when the distance is closed. A bit like redcoat musketeers, actually. With voidwalkers and shedim and everything out for blood, this wouldn't be too far fetched, right?
I've also been thinking, technology enhancements seem a bit... random. Once you find advanced mechnisms (which requires you to work for it, one way or another), you are pretty much set for technology tablets that comes tumbling out through the training workshops. Perhaps you should make the later stages of the tech tree a bit more challenging? Like, make a 'Research Lab' workshop with reactions like 'Research weapon concepts' 'Research more efficient ___' 'Research ___ of ___' etc etc. Different ones of these reactions take different, rather valuable resources (bars of specific types of metal, rare animal products or rare plants') and has chances of success.
Just some thoughts I had during math class.
Post by: narhiril on November 30, 2011, 10:38:39 pm
Shedim brings no profit but their useless dead bodyparts, refuse hauling jobs and the joy of killing itself. Basically, goblins without clothes. Good idea, these shedim!
I'm still more interested, however, in technology development. Higher technology tree = better weapons? And not just random weapons like the weapon experimental ones? I was thinking weapons with, for example, crossbows attached to it or something. So high tech dwarven soldiers would be dressed in hadrine and voidshard, shoot volleys at charging enemies, then engage in melee when the distance is closed. A bit like redcoat musketeers, actually. With voidwalkers and shedim and everything out for blood, this wouldn't be too far fetched, right?
I've also been thinking, technology enhancements seem a bit... random. Once you find advanced mechnisms (which requires you to work for it, one way or another), you are pretty much set for technology tablets that comes tumbling out through the training workshops. Perhaps you should make the later stages of the tech tree a bit more challenging? Like, make a 'Research Lab' workshop with reactions like 'Research weapon concepts' 'Research more efficient ___' 'Research ___ of ___' etc etc. Different ones of these reactions take different, rather valuable resources (bars of specific types of metal, rare animal products or rare plants') and has chances of success.
Just some thoughts I had during math class.
Future tech tree advances are going to focus more on prototypes, which match your "research" idea pretty closely. While the alchemy lab lets you screw around with plentiful resources, the advanced alchemy lab is going to require reagents that are not early as easy to come by for some of its advances. R&D is expensive, after all.
That being said, I really like the way the training and documentation cycle worked out, allowing you to passively move the tree forward while using the new features. I don't have any plans to back-adjust this, though that doesn't at all mean that you won't see a different set of mechanics in later tiers.
Your idea for hybrid troops (i.e. melee shock troops with some ranged ability) is one that I very much had planned to explore. I had originally looked at Roman legionnaires for the inspiration here, who would attack by unloading their javelins before closing the distance. Of course, it won't actually be javelins, because we have the javelin thrower for those, but hybrid ranged/melee weapons are right around the corner for the tech tree. Other advances planned for the next leg of the tech tree include new forms of ammunition, new decorations, and a new shield (this one is highly ambitious and needs testing out the wazoo before I say any more about it).
It's going to get fun. Well, hopefully it already is fun, but it's going to get REALLY fun. :)
Post by: astianax on December 01, 2011, 07:06:23 pm
as for the ah tels, another mod, i believe it's direforged, has a megabeast called the iron devistator. it's got four arms, three of which are weapons (it's a statue, too. and i know at least one weapon-arm is a sword). so, maybe dissecting the author's methods may help you make shorter work of your own? i dunno. just figured i'd mention, in case it has the potential to reduce headaches
also, also, my latest embark, first mood:
¢k Etost–thir, High Priest-Baron Candidate has created Fikod Asrer, a tungsten reactive chest plate!
Fikod Asrer: The Glaze of Appearance (value: 55800 dorfbux)
this is a tungsten reactive chestplate. all craftdwarfship is of the highest quality. the object menaces with spikes of tungsten
so, not much in the way of decoration on it (it *was* the first mood, after all) but quite a lovely surprise, nonetheless
Post by: Pan on December 01, 2011, 07:26:44 pm
Post by: Putnam on December 01, 2011, 07:34:44 pm
It should be better than iron.
Post by: Pan on December 01, 2011, 10:34:16 pm
Post by: narhiril on December 02, 2011, 02:44:27 pm
Tungsten is, as Putnam mentioned, a remarkably hard metal. Tungsten carbide, an alloy of equal parts tungsten and carbon, is harder than steel, and is used in modern machinery and armor-piercing rounds. Unfortunately, it takes very high temperatures to manufacture (hotter than magma). Lower temperature synthesis is possible, but requires some very advanced technology (flourine gas, teflon gaskets, lots of risk of dwarves being melted by acid, etc). That's not to say that tungsten carbide won't ever be a part of LFR, but it will need some serious tech advances beforehand and some creativity on my part to make it seem reasonable. If it does come, it won't be until a very late tier, at which point I must weigh the possibility that the required investment might outpace the potential reward, as I'm not sure how tungsten carbide would compare to something like voidshard - there doesn't seem to be a natural place for it to fall. At this point, it might or might not be included - we'll see how things work out moving forward.
---
For now, the advanced alchemy lab is focused on investigating new materials (with some help from the experimental materials workshop), specifically looking at the first dwarven forays into magnetism and limited use of electricity, which will get a foot in the door to what has always been the sort of "end goal" of the tech tree - mechanical constructs. This tier of the tech tree will look more like traditional, almost steampunk research and development, with investment of highly varied reagents, trial, and error. Mad, bearded scientists test their hypotheses with alcohol, elaborate contraptions, and unstable prototypes, a la Da Vinci or Tesla (much of the inspiration comes from these two inventors). What that means for you is hybrid weapons, experimental combat technologies, more potential disasters and lab accidents, and some other stupid dwarf tricks thrown in for good measure.
Imagine a dwarf tinkering for years with a new weapon/contraption, whilst all of his colleagues think him insane, who goes down in history not for his contribution to the military, but for some very unusual cheese that he accidentally created as a byproduct of his research. That's kind of what this tier is going to look like.
Post by: Jilladilla on December 03, 2011, 01:15:27 am
Imagine a dwarf tinkering for years with a new weapon/contraption, whilst all of his colleagues think him insane, who goes down in history not for his contribution to the military, but for some very unusual cheese that he accidentally created as a byproduct of his research. That's kind of what this tier is going to look like.
lol :D
and btw, are you planning on making it so a construct will sometimes be hostile when its made? just seems natural for some screw ups to happen that way :)
Post by: Irenices on December 03, 2011, 10:33:41 pm
-the errorlog.txt in the main folder says
path fail: dwarf,Store Item in Stockpile,97,130,118 -> 88,108,121: Id #5951:Path Goal Store Item:Station Milling Flood at 98,122,118
Post by: narhiril on December 04, 2011, 06:36:16 am
Imagine a dwarf tinkering for years with a new weapon/contraption, whilst all of his colleagues think him insane, who goes down in history not for his contribution to the military, but for some very unusual cheese that he accidentally created as a byproduct of his research. That's kind of what this tier is going to look like.
lol :D
and btw, are you planning on making it so a construct will sometimes be hostile when its made? just seems natural for some screw ups to happen that way :)
Oh yes, of course :)
The logistics of how I planned to make some friendly and some others hostile are hinging pretty heavily on some clever manipulation of castes. However, I can't say anything for certain. It's hard to know how you're going to build a golem when your toolbox hasn't even arrived yet, if you get my drift.
---
I'm hoping against hope that caste-level graphics make it into this next version of DF. This comment has been isolated from the rest of the post due to its complete irrelevance to your question, but I thought it was worth noting anyway.
---
Im really enjoying this mod so far but im having a crash issue that stops my progression, its happened 3 times now and i have no clue whats causing it as i was doing totally different things each time, none of them out of the ordinary. Its not truetype as i have that disabled and wasnt looking at anything, about 15mins after i load my seasonal save it just bites it, the 3rd time it happened i was tabbed out even.
-the errorlog.txt in the main folder says
path fail: dwarf,Store Item in Stockpile,97,130,118 -> 88,108,121: Id #5951:Path Goal Store Item:Station Milling Flood at 98,122,118
That error has nothing to do with anything related to LFR, and I seem to get those pathing errors dumped into the error log periodically without any sort of crashing. I'm sorry I wish I could be more helpful, but without being able to reproduce the problem, there's not a lot I can do about it. If you don't seem to be able to link it to any specific action, it's probably not a raw issue, and if it's an issue with the program itself, I can't do anything for it.
In the meantime, the only thing I can suggest is to save really, really often, and see if you can't find a consistent, specific moment when it seems to have trouble.
Also, how does the game behave when it crashes? Does it fully crash and kick you to desktop or does it just hang and force you to kill the process?
Post by: narhiril on December 05, 2011, 02:14:40 pm
Which brings me to my point. Vines of Xanadu - do these things actually work? I haven't ever stumbled on them during my play testing (admittedly, they only show up in savage-good biomes, and I tend to test in savage-evil), and I'm curious to know if their long growth cycle is working properly. Of course, I can just tweak some numbers on a copy and make them as common as dirt for testing purposes, but if anyone has actually gotten these things growing and has any experience, I'd love to hear about it - it would save me a lot of time. Every other plant seems to be working properly, at least.
Post by: astianax on December 05, 2011, 06:06:50 pm
i'm gonna modify a few reactions later on, see if i can get any of the good or evil seeds to pop out and see if can plant those. but, i've noticed the vine of xanadu and its prismatic essence when setting up stockpiles (i usually do an "all milled plants but dyes" and a "just the dyes here" stockpile in different areas) and want to use it at some point
i've even started using df hack's prospector option just to see what plants are around. still haven't seen any of the good or evil ones from any of the mods i've got crammed together under the lfr hood, in any of my saved worlds. it's rather disappointing, really
Post by: Putnam on December 05, 2011, 06:32:01 pm
sadly, to my knowledge, we still aren't getting to see any good or evil plants or trees grow anywhere. they somehow got broken, no glumprongs or featherwoods, sunberries or sliver barbs for quite a while, and that's just in the standard game. haven't even seen the tentacle or eyeball grass in ages, and i always start in areas that have good and evil biomes crossing.
i'm gonna modify a few reactions later on, see if i can get any of the good or evil seeds to pop out and see if can plant those. but, i've noticed the vine of xanadu and its prismatic essence when setting up stockpiles (i usually do an "all milled plants but dyes" and a "just the dyes here" stockpile in different areas) and want to use it at some point
i've even started using df hack's prospector option just to see what plants are around. still haven't seen any of the good or evil ones from any of the mods i've got crammed together under the lfr hood, in any of my saved worlds. it's rather disappointing, really
Huh. I just started a succession game (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=97253.0) where there are tentacle/eye grasses, though they don't have the correct tiles.
Post by: astianax on December 05, 2011, 08:33:38 pm
Post by: narhiril on December 05, 2011, 10:55:02 pm
(un)lucky you! i've been trying for ages (and many, many more worlds than i care to admit) and haven't seen any of the 'evil' grasses other than the brain tissue and clattering teeth i snagged from another mod, both grow all willy-nilly in the caverns, not caring if it's good or evil areas, yet both are flagged to only grow in evil caverns. on the surface, still no sign of a good or evil plant of any kind
Ok so this seems like a DF bug rather than a LFR bug. Disappointing, but good to know.
sadly, to my knowledge, we still aren't getting to see any good or evil plants or trees grow anywhere. they somehow got broken, no glumprongs or featherwoods, sunberries or sliver barbs for quite a while, and that's just in the standard game. haven't even seen the tentacle or eyeball grass in ages, and i always start in areas that have good and evil biomes crossing.
i'm gonna modify a few reactions later on, see if i can get any of the good or evil seeds to pop out and see if can plant those. but, i've noticed the vine of xanadu and its prismatic essence when setting up stockpiles (i usually do an "all milled plants but dyes" and a "just the dyes here" stockpile in different areas) and want to use it at some point
i've even started using df hack's prospector option just to see what plants are around. still haven't seen any of the good or evil ones from any of the mods i've got crammed together under the lfr hood, in any of my saved worlds. it's rather disappointing, really
Huh. I just started a succession game (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=97253.0) where there are tentacle/eye grasses, though they don't have the correct tiles.
LFR doesn't add grasses (at least not yet), so that's probably an Ironhand issue. That would be reasonably easy to fix, though - I'll mention it on the relevant thread, but you can open up plant_grasses and edit the tiles of the culprit(s) in [GRASS_TILE] and [ALT_GRASS_TILE] yourself. Shouldn't require a new world, either.
Post by: Putnam on December 05, 2011, 10:57:50 pm
(un)lucky you! i've been trying for ages (and many, many more worlds than i care to admit) and haven't seen any of the 'evil' grasses other than the brain tissue and clattering teeth i snagged from another mod, both grow all willy-nilly in the caverns, not caring if it's good or evil areas, yet both are flagged to only grow in evil caverns. on the surface, still no sign of a good or evil plant of any kind
Ok so this seems like a DF bug rather than a LFR bug. Disappointing, but good to know.sadly, to my knowledge, we still aren't getting to see any good or evil plants or trees grow anywhere. they somehow got broken, no glumprongs or featherwoods, sunberries or sliver barbs for quite a while, and that's just in the standard game. haven't even seen the tentacle or eyeball grass in ages, and i always start in areas that have good and evil biomes crossing.
i'm gonna modify a few reactions later on, see if i can get any of the good or evil seeds to pop out and see if can plant those. but, i've noticed the vine of xanadu and its prismatic essence when setting up stockpiles (i usually do an "all milled plants but dyes" and a "just the dyes here" stockpile in different areas) and want to use it at some point
i've even started using df hack's prospector option just to see what plants are around. still haven't seen any of the good or evil ones from any of the mods i've got crammed together under the lfr hood, in any of my saved worlds. it's rather disappointing, really
Huh. I just started a succession game (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=97253.0) where there are tentacle/eye grasses, though they don't have the correct tiles.
LFR doesn't add grasses (at least not yet), so that's probably an Ironhand issue. That would be reasonably easy to fix, though - I'll mention it on the relevant thread, but you can open up plant_grasses and edit the tiles of the culprit(s) in [GRASS_TILE] and [ALT_GRASS_TILE] yourself. Shouldn't require a new world, either.
Nono, the tiles were unrelated to your mod; the succession game uses my own mod, which runs on ASCII, but the characters for the grasses are the same as all the other grass, but different colored.
Post by: Pan on December 07, 2011, 09:39:21 pm
I'm looking forward to the melee ranged hybrid weapon. Perhaps one that could be upgraded as the technology goes further? Such as how the javelin thrower can be upgraded to be more energy efficient? Maybe this one could be upgraded to have better ammo stacks or better melee ability. Also, are you willing to reveal what this weapon will look like?
Also, I believe that javelin thrower spears are very valuable. Perhaps reduce the javelin value?
Post by: narhiril on December 08, 2011, 04:36:36 pm
Would you be willing to reveal some things on the next release? Perhaps in a list?
I'm looking forward to the melee ranged hybrid weapon. Perhaps one that could be upgraded as the technology goes further? Such as how the javelin thrower can be upgraded to be more energy efficient? Maybe this one could be upgraded to have better ammo stacks or better melee ability. Also, are you willing to reveal what this weapon will look like?
Also, I believe that javelin thrower spears are very valuable. Perhaps reduce the javelin value?
Javelin values are coming from their sizes. I need to play with these to see if I can get them to something more reasonable without affecting combat performance.
Here's what I've got DONE so far...
-Fixed a typo in the description for megalania.
-Added a new easter egg creature.
-Fixed an issue with incubi that was causing them to be much rarer than intended.
-Meowkin traders will now sell fish (thanks astinax).
-Vines of xanadu will now produce "heavenly seasoning" when milled, which carries a material value of 20.
-Nephilim will now use heraldic shields in addition to their previous two types (this change is mostly cosmetic).
-Added the ability to craft hadrine reactive shields (same prerequisites as other hadrine pieces).
IN PROGRESS:
-advanced alchemy lab, prototype workbench, and
-bdog's wheelbarrows.
-a new hybrid weapon - the bayonet crossbow, which will be built from components at the prototype workbench (changes melee skill to spear).
-a new ranged weapon - the magnetic dart launcher, assembled at the prototype workbench.
-an option to upgrade the magnetic dart launcher to also carry a small bayonet (changes melee skill to sword).
-an option to upgrade the bayonet dart launcher with extra capacitors (increases ranged power).
-an option to upgrade the javelin thrower to use a draw mechanism (increases ranged power).
-an option to upgrade the mechanized javelin thrower to carry a detachable general-purpose combat knife (increases melee power, changes melee skill to dagger).
-an option to upgrade the bayonet crossbow to use a draw mechanism (increases ranged power).
-an option to upgrade the mechanized bayonet crossbow to use a spring-loaded bayonet (increases melee power).
-a new type of (extremely unusual) shield.
-new types of ammunition, including magnetic darts for the magnetic dart launcher and throwing knives/axes.
-groundwork for future advancements.
-some unusual research byproducts of varying types.
-revised voidwalker creature raws.
-new easter eggs (duh).
-
Post by: BigFatStupidHead on December 08, 2011, 07:17:54 pm
Post by: Pan on December 09, 2011, 03:21:11 am
Post by: BigFatStupidHead on December 09, 2011, 06:50:57 am
Do shield material matter for anything other than their bashing capabilities?Nope!
Post by: Pan on December 09, 2011, 08:35:11 am
Post by: narhiril on December 09, 2011, 10:15:09 am
Hmm, how would magnetics fire a projectile? Magnetics is things attaching, not shot away, right? Excuse me, not a physics student here.
Electromagnetism is a fascinating thing - it can repel or attract, and repulsion is not even needed for creating a projectile weapon.
An example. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coilgun)
Also called a gauss cannon, a mass driver, or a MAC. Even though most of these weapons are experimental, the technology behind them is remarkably simple - enough so that a dwarven researcher could, conceivably, stumble across it. You can build a (remarkably effective) (http://www.livevideo.com/video/E120E7BEB43340168FD22D594B75C423/coil-gun-in-action.aspx) one of these using some pretty basic electrical components.
Obviously, the LFR version is going to be dealing with relatively low speeds and small projectiles.
May I suggest you add [Leather] to gauntlets, so that there is a non-metal hand armor material option that can be selected when designating uniforms? Your excellent simplified clothing add-on makes gloves foreign, so my leather-bound squads need to rely on the unlisted bone or shell gauntlets.
I had a response to this typed up yesterday, right before the forum crashed. This is a good catch, but I won't be modifying the stock components, if possible - instead, I'm going to just create a new glove item for this purpose ("bracers"). Expect this for both LFR and LFR-SC in the next release, with due credit.
Post by: Pan on December 09, 2011, 10:45:12 am
Hmm, how would magnetics fire a projectile? Magnetics is things attaching, not shot away, right? Excuse me, not a physics student here.
Electromagnetism is a fascinating thing - it can repel or attract, and repulsion is not even needed for creating a projectile weapon.
An example. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coilgun)
Also called a gauss cannon, a mass driver, or a MAC. Even though most of these weapons are experimental, the technology behind them is remarkably simple - enough so that a dwarven researcher could, conceivably, stumble across it. You can build a (remarkably effective) (http://www.livevideo.com/video/E120E7BEB43340168FD22D594B75C423/coil-gun-in-action.aspx) one of these using some pretty basic electrical components.
Obviously, the LFR version is going to be dealing with relatively low speeds and small projectiles.May I suggest you add [Leather] to gauntlets, so that there is a non-metal hand armor material option that can be selected when designating uniforms? Your excellent simplified clothing add-on makes gloves foreign, so my leather-bound squads need to rely on the unlisted bone or shell gauntlets.
I had a response to this typed up yesterday, right before the forum crashed. This is a good catch, but I won't be modifying the stock components, if possible - instead, I'm going to just create a new glove item for this purpose ("bracers"). Expect this for both LFR and LFR-SC in the next release, with due credit.
Would you be willing to describe what the magnetic weapon would look like? It uses the sword skill in close quarters while shooting out magnetic darts like a coilgun. I gotta say that's cool to imagine. But what does it look like?
Post by: narhiril on December 12, 2011, 11:46:30 am
Would you be willing to describe what the magnetic weapon would look like? It uses the sword skill in close quarters while shooting out magnetic darts like a coilgun. I gotta say that's cool to imagine. But what does it look like?
I'll post a doodle of it later today.
In the mean time, here's some goods from the caravan...
Spoiler: :) (click to show/hide)
Post by: astianax on December 12, 2011, 01:51:56 pm
anyway, on the plants angle (the not seeing good/evil tagged plants or trees) i've accidentally found a sort of a workaround to this, thanks to urist da vinci's work, posted here: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=96679.msg2775733#msg2775733
i've taken that, added in all of the lfr plants that are millable (as well as the other assortment of plants i've got crammed into my game) since i was tired of my dwarves making tons of flour out of my booze plants when i wanted dyes made. an unforseen result of this is that my dwarves now start with the seeds/dyes/flours of anything in those reactions, including the plants that only grow in good or evil areas or caverns two and three. and, those seeds *are* plantable, which is a good thing. but also sorta spoils the need to hunt for the fun, rare stuff.
i *did* manage to see my first wild-grown slither weed (evil growing underground plant) ever, though, when i pierced cavern three early (i've been using dfhack's reveal to peek into the caverns, then prospect to see what plants are available down there...then setting my miners to bypass caverns one and two to hit three first, see if the rare plants grew in my fort that way. it's worked this once. none of the previous attempts). so...it's a bit of a start, maybe
i'd also modified the knowledge rituals and plant alchemy a bit, to allow those other hard to find plants to show (also, should point out that base plant alchemy takes 6 seeds, magma version takes 8). or, in the knowledge rituals, i'd added glumprongs and featherwood (as well as the other good/evil trees i've crammed in) at the same rate as courage oaks and widow's tear. that way, it'll help as options for mandates, if needed.
and, on another front, the meowkin. seems river and ocean products aren't quite enough for them to bring you fish. i've made 'em civ controllable for testing, and they *can* and *do* fish on embark, they just don't seem to want to trade those tasty treats. just now added the 'use animal products' tag, as well as making it so meowkin can milk animals, make cheese, shear critters, and spin that into usable wool, but keeping them at 'unthinkable' on killing animals, and no butcher/tanner. although, i did add cook, dyer, miller, and thresher to their jobs too. no clue how much of this is to your liking, but mentioning it all here
haven't managed to test this latest setup out to see if it allows them to give up their tasty fish, but i'll manage to squeeze that testing time in by tonight
Post by: Pan on December 12, 2011, 07:41:07 pm
i *did* manage to see my first wild-grown slither weed (evil growing underground plant) ever
Slither weed? LoFR plant? Huh.
Post by: Pan on December 13, 2011, 06:57:38 am
Post by: Trapezohedron on December 13, 2011, 06:58:58 am
Post by: narhiril on December 13, 2011, 09:16:52 am
Throwing gloves? Or something that resembles a glove, probably, like hand wraps or something.
This was the plan ^.^
Post by: astianax on December 13, 2011, 01:02:01 pm
on other fronts, also still trying to determine why the kittens want to hoard all their tasty fishies instead of selling them to other races. or even their outposts, who have to do all the fishing themselves
Post by: Pan on December 14, 2011, 01:23:26 am
Throwing gloves? Or something that resembles a glove, probably, like hand wraps or something.
This was the plan ^.^
Just for the sake of argument, one can throw projectile weapons barehanded perfectly well. Perhaps the technological advancement is a spring loaded knife in the hilt of a normal weapon? So before charging the enemy, they shoot a knife out the bottom handle of the weapon hilt?
Post by: narhiril on December 14, 2011, 03:52:34 am
I'm debating how I want to do this. It might come as a glove, it might come in the form of a "knife belt" (though, for technical reasons, it's going to have to be equipped in the hand). It's not really about the ability to throw them without a glove, it's about how it will actually work.
I do like the idea of a spring-loaded knife launcher, but I think I'll tack that on to another advancement. I'm leaning towards a "spiked throwing glove" for the basic weapon and using striker for the melee attack. They're really more of a novelty item at this point in time, but they're going to get incorporated in some new weapons down the stretch.
Post by: Trapezohedron on December 14, 2011, 05:13:16 am
Post by: Pan on December 14, 2011, 08:07:38 am
Speaking of knife launchers... this might inspire you guys a bit. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballistic_knife)
I actually googled that up right before I posted 'my' idea. That link is in dark orange for me :P
For the sake of argument, a spiked glove is really not that technologically advanced to make either. It sounds like something that would be available at the start.
Post by: narhiril on December 14, 2011, 08:14:48 pm
Speaking of knife launchers... this might inspire you guys a bit. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballistic_knife)
I actually googled that up right before I posted 'my' idea. That link is in dark orange for me :P
For the sake of argument, a spiked glove is really not that technologically advanced to make either. It sounds like something that would be available at the start.
I agree, which is why I won't be tying it to the tech tree. It will be available from embark, mostly as a way of getting the "thrown" class of ammunition on the table for the tech tree to take advantage of later.
Post by: Pan on December 15, 2011, 05:55:22 am
Speaking of knife launchers... this might inspire you guys a bit. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballistic_knife)
I actually googled that up right before I posted 'my' idea. That link is in dark orange for me :P
For the sake of argument, a spiked glove is really not that technologically advanced to make either. It sounds like something that would be available at the start.
I agree, which is why I won't be tying it to the tech tree. It will be available from embark, mostly as a way of getting the "thrown" class of ammunition on the table for the tech tree to take advantage of later.
Once again, for the sake of argument, barehanded throwing of a knife or axe is still possible, and if I was a dwarf, I would, instead of grabbing an axe throwing glove and a belt full of throwing axes and fighting, I would make the much more sensible choice of a melee weapon + handful of throwing axes (throw them barehanded). Your method works and everything, but frankly I find this a little strange.
On hindsight, though, dwarves carrying crossbows but not side arm melee weapons (not using them when in melee) also doesn't make sense in vanilla gameplay.
By the way, is it possible to get other races to bring their race specific weapons and shields during trade? Cuz if so, perhaps you could give Nephilim powerful weaponry that can only be imported from them. I mean, Nephilim are more advanced than dwarves, right? I've recently seen a movie regarding how during the colonial ages, China and Japan and other less advanced countries would import Western weaponry as expensive but tactically useful weapons. Just a thought.
Post by: Sunday on December 15, 2011, 07:52:57 am
Speaking of knife launchers... this might inspire you guys a bit. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballistic_knife)
I actually googled that up right before I posted 'my' idea. That link is in dark orange for me :P
For the sake of argument, a spiked glove is really not that technologically advanced to make either. It sounds like something that would be available at the start.
I agree, which is why I won't be tying it to the tech tree. It will be available from embark, mostly as a way of getting the "thrown" class of ammunition on the table for the tech tree to take advantage of later.
Once again, for the sake of argument, barehanded throwing of a knife or axe is still possible, and if I was a dwarf, I would, instead of grabbing an axe throwing glove and a belt full of throwing axes and fighting, I would make the much more sensible choice of a melee weapon + handful of throwing axes (throw them barehanded). Your method works and everything, but frankly I find this a little strange.
See, I think the problem with barehanded ax throwing is purely mechanical. "Throwing gloves" are a workaround, not something put in for versimilitude.
One cannot equip throwing weapons in DF fort mode, as much as we would be able to do it. If someone wants to create an "ax thrower" dwarf, there has to be some mechanism for getting the dwarf to equip the axes. To do that, one might have to create a situation analogous to a crossbow: a "weapon" (here, the throwing glove) that fires the "ammunition" (here, throwing axes). One can't just give a dwarf some weapons you've created and tell him to throw them if possible.
Of course, if you can think of a way to implement throwing axes without such a workaround, then that's awesome.
Post by: Pan on December 15, 2011, 08:23:06 am
Speaking of knife launchers... this might inspire you guys a bit. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballistic_knife)
I actually googled that up right before I posted 'my' idea. That link is in dark orange for me :P
For the sake of argument, a spiked glove is really not that technologically advanced to make either. It sounds like something that would be available at the start.
I agree, which is why I won't be tying it to the tech tree. It will be available from embark, mostly as a way of getting the "thrown" class of ammunition on the table for the tech tree to take advantage of later.
Once again, for the sake of argument, barehanded throwing of a knife or axe is still possible, and if I was a dwarf, I would, instead of grabbing an axe throwing glove and a belt full of throwing axes and fighting, I would make the much more sensible choice of a melee weapon + handful of throwing axes (throw them barehanded). Your method works and everything, but frankly I find this a little strange.
See, I think the problem with barehanded ax throwing is purely mechanical. "Throwing gloves" are a workaround, not something put in for versimilitude.
One cannot equip throwing weapons in DF fort mode, as much as we would be able to do it. If someone wants to create an "ax thrower" dwarf, there has to be some mechanism for getting the dwarf to equip the axes. To do that, one might have to create a situation analogous to a crossbow: a "weapon" (here, the throwing glove) that fires the "ammunition" (here, throwing axes). One can't just give a dwarf some weapons you've created and tell him to throw them if possible.
Of course, if you can think of a way to implement throwing axes without such a workaround, then that's awesome.
Yes, I was referring to realistically, a dwarf would not need to equip a spiked glove to be able to throw axes. I understand the mechanics.
I believe I read somewhere before that gnomeblight is fatal to gnomes, who gets necrosis when they step on it. I believe, narhiril, that this could be exploited and shoe horned into the technology tree somewhere to make.. oh I don't know... FACE ROT TO VOIDWALKER SCUM? Perhaps you could make it out of voracious maws? Frankly, I find atrophic bliss' weaponizing effects is... well, I'm sure no one has ever tried doing that before. (I must say it was a rather big let down once I realized the 'weaponizable bio weapon' was severely limited in deployment and effectiveness)
Heck, given the large amount of lore you devote to plants, I'm surprised there is only one reaction (transmutation), not an entire section (or sub section) of technology tree to cover some aspects of it.
Post by: narhiril on December 15, 2011, 09:40:41 am
To be fair, solid material weaknesses won't be possible until the next release, and gnomeblight is not exactly easy to use in its current state. That being said, an alchemical reaction that yields a volatile liquid would work. Actually deploying it is a bit difficult with current abilities, and you would probably need to do something similar to what you have to do with gnomeblight to actually get it working.
It's going to need a contact syndrome, and it's going to be pretty easily countered by any sort of footwear, but I can probably work something out to specifically counter a certain enemy. I could even make it require voracious maws, or use them as a "natural" alternative to another, synthetic reaction (this might be best, given the current state of good/evil plants).
Also, Pan, the only thing I could think after reading your post was "STOP RIGHT THERE, VOIDWALKER SCUM!" Thanks.
Post by: astianax on December 15, 2011, 04:04:05 pm
and, about testing them as a civ, got them delivering fish (with the [USE_ANIMAL_PRODUCTS] tag) but, that tag, even when they refuse to kill animals, even in self defense, has them bringing various meats and leathers to sell, too. grr, frustrating lack of flexibility with some of these tags. can't have them just bring fish, milk, and wool, they've gotta bring meat and hides too or nothing from animals
...what i wouldn't give for variations of the common domestic tag. like aquatic/amphibious, good, evil, savage, or flying (that way, the nephilim could go back to flying and only have flying pack animals)
speaking of the nephilim, pan, if you want to specify them to bring stuff (and any other race, too), there's a guild representative position that can be added to the entity raws. they'll then bring a person to talk to your leader, akin to the dwarf liaison, and let you specify what they bring with their next caravan. although, adding that to the nephilim can get a little overwhelming when they show up 3 times a year...
Post by: Pan on December 15, 2011, 09:14:04 pm
The stressed-out (finals week) college student viciously hacks the quote wall in the lower body with her *mithril reaver*, and the severed part sails off in an arc!
To be fair, solid material weaknesses won't be possible until the next release, and gnomeblight is not exactly easy to use in its current state. That being said, an alchemical reaction that yields a volatile liquid would work. Actually deploying it is a bit difficult with current abilities, and you would probably need to do something similar to what you have to do with gnomeblight to actually get it working.
It's going to need a contact syndrome, and it's going to be pretty easily countered by any sort of footwear, but I can probably work something out to specifically counter a certain enemy. I could even make it require voracious maws, or use them as a "natural" alternative to another, synthetic reaction (this might be best, given the current state of good/evil plants).
Shoes... Hadn't thought of that.
Just a thought, but Shedim do not have clothes, right?
Post by: narhiril on December 17, 2011, 12:41:03 am
Shoes... Hadn't thought of that.
Just a thought, but Shedim do not have clothes, right?
No, shedim don't.
Also, here's a magnetic dart launcher. Hopefully this does it justice, this was my first time ever using gimp for concept art.
Spoiler: MDL (click to show/hide)
The bayonet is made of copper, with a copper dart loaded up. The weapon is held like a crossbow, with one hand on the padded area (between the bayonet and the coil) and one on the bottom handle, resting the stock on the shoulder. It is fired by pulling the entire weapon in towards the dwarf's body, compressing the stock and completing the circuit, which fires the external capacitors and energizes the coil.
Once upgraded with the bayonet, the weapon can be swung by the stock very much like a sword, though only the leading edge will be much use (you can bash them with the coil, I suppose, but there isn't much point, and the alchemists will be furious when they have to fish another set of goblin teeth out of the firing mechanisms).
Because there is no string to draw, the weapon can be loaded and fired as quickly as a dwarf can keep putting darts in it. The downside to the magnetic dart launcher is that it is limited by the amount of power it can hold in its capacitors, meaning it has to sacrifice some power in order to fire a reasonable number of shots before it has to be recharged. This problem can be partially alleviated by research, which can increase the number of capacitors it can carry at once. Also, you're going to need to include iron when making magnetic darts (of any material), so making copper darts will require a copper bar and an iron bar. Fortunately, you get a lot for your investment - magnetic darts are produced in stacks of 50. And if you run out of iron (I don't imagine this ever being a problem, but for the sake of argument), you can always pray for more at the shrine of victory for a slow but inexhaustible supply.
For technical reasons, you won't actually have to recharge the capacitors at any point, they just serve as a component of weapon construction and lore. Just imagine your little military dwarves furiously pumping the handle during their down time to keep them up and running.
Post by: IamanElfCollaborator on December 17, 2011, 04:28:52 am
Post by: Putnam on December 17, 2011, 04:42:28 am
I can imagine that a military dwarf spending his time keeping that up and running would have a very strong left or right arm, depending on which hand he uses to pump it.
giggity
in all seriousness, I'm sure they switch
Post by: IamanElfCollaborator on December 17, 2011, 07:56:59 am
Then they become skilled weightlifters with that arm, the both of them.
Post by: Pan on December 17, 2011, 12:48:48 pm
Because there is no string to draw, the weapon can be loaded and fired as quickly as a dwarf can keep putting darts in it.
I thought firing speed of ranged weapons cannot be changed?
Post by: IamanElfCollaborator on December 17, 2011, 02:36:50 pm
Post by: SirAaronIII on December 17, 2011, 03:01:55 pm
Post by: Putnam on December 17, 2011, 03:06:31 pm
Post by: SirAaronIII on December 17, 2011, 03:11:58 pm
MAXVEL makes shots go faster, and only one shot is allowed from a single creature at a time. So, when MAXVEL goes up, shot rate goes up.yeah this is what I was trying to say but I don't know the mod tags and stuff
Post by: BigFatStupidHead on December 17, 2011, 04:22:02 pm
MAXVEL makes shots go faster, and only one shot is allowed from a single creature at a time. So, when MAXVEL goes up, shot rate goes up.
Hey Putnam, there are factors at work other than some hard-coded "one projectile on screen at a time" rule; by using DFhack's fastdwarf, you can see a single dwarf spraying bolts with dozens on screen at once. As fastdwarf drops all dwarf jobs to be accomplished in zero ticks, this suggests that it is rather something to do with the job-speed of reloading.
Post by: Pan on December 18, 2011, 12:24:06 am
Also, I have noticed that there is no option to embark with javelin thrower ammunition.
Post by: globofglob on December 19, 2011, 02:04:44 pm
1. I found a dwarf with the Master Savant Skill. Dwarf seems to be an adequate markdwarf, hunter, ambusher, etc. Are these her savant skills, or do I have to figure out what skill shes best at?
2. I can't seem to get my dwarves to make an overgrown pillar at the Temple construction part thingy. Noone even takes the job.
3. I have plenty of stone and plants, yet all alchemy processes in the alchemy workshop are red. How do I enable the basic transmutation reactions?
Post by: narhiril on December 19, 2011, 02:13:48 pm
A few questions-
1. I found a dwarf with the Master Savant Skill. Dwarf seems to be an adequate markdwarf, hunter, ambusher, etc. Are these her savant skills, or do I have to figure out what skill shes best at?
2. I can't seem to get my dwarves to make an overgrown pillar at the Temple construction part thingy. Noone even takes the job.
3. I have plenty of stone and plants, yet all alchemy processes in the alchemy workshop are red. How do I enable the basic transmutation reactions?
1) Savant is natural +12 alchemy.
2 + 3) The only thing I can think of is this - workshops tend to do weird things with burrows sometimes. If the required reagents are not part of a burrow that is shared with the workshop, the workshop pretends they don't exist. If you are using burrows to control your dwarves, make sure that there is at least one burrow that contains both the reagents and the workshop. If that doesn't work, try queueing it up with the manager screen and seeing what happens.
Post by: Pan on December 20, 2011, 10:30:08 am
Post by: narhiril on December 20, 2011, 11:07:28 am
So how far are we working towards the next version, Narhiril? Or still toiling in the coffee stained mines for your finals?
Finals ended on Friday for me, so this week should be an opportunity to hammer out some good progress.
Here's how it's looking so far...
Wheelbarrows are done, tested, and ready to go.
Hadrine shields are done, tested, and ready to go.
A number of minor tweaks are done, tested, and ready to go.
New easter egg creatures are done, tested, and ready to go.
Glass savants are done, tested, and ready to go.
Tier 3 mechanical weapons and weapons upgrades are done but not thoroughly tested yet.
Cobalt, neodymium, and palladium are done. Reactions to extract them from ores are not.
Most of the reactions and building raws for advanced alchemy are not done yet.
Two new easter eggs are not done or tested yet.
Post by: narhiril on December 22, 2011, 07:37:43 pm
Because these new metals will play an important role in tier 3's advanced alchemy lab, a "search for trace metals" reaction has also been added to the experimental materials workshop, which takes a few stones and has a small (3-6%) chance of yielding one of these metal bars. That sounds very low, but with all the stone you surely have lying around, you should be able to get a steady, slow supply of these metals, even on maps where they aren't found. You can also request the ores and bars from the Dwarven caravan.
Neodymium will be used in the construction of the magnetic dart launcher and a few other new components. Cobalt can be used for advanced mechanisms and precision tools, and will see some more uses down the road. Palladium will be used almost exclusively for catalytic converters, which will be an optional "safety" component of some new reactions - as in, you can do the reaction with or without them, but having them present removes the possibility for some new alchemical disasters. Or you can be cheap, put some dwarven life on the line, and do it without them. It's totally up to you. :)
--
In case you're wondering how the development process is looking, it's hitting its usual sidetracks. I was playing around with some new concepts for zingers. First, I wanted to bring pyrophoric zingers back, if possible, but I needed a way of making them more effective. So the idea hit me to set their blood ("napalm") to an obscene temperature, which should result in them causing the desired wounds, but also would result in a bunch of flaming hot napalm all over the place afterwards, so I need to find an effective way to get rid of it (besides magma and/or walls). If the blood was set to a temperature where it would ignite, maybe I could make it burn off, but I need to do some playing around to see how contaminants respond to temperature to see if that will work.
Which then got me thinking... I could very easily make acid zingers, with a contact blistering and bruising and pain effect added to their blood, and I wouldn't have to clean that up because it's acid and you'd have to set up a disposal system on your own, but since it doesn't rely on high temperatures, this could be done with water. So now, instead of the advanced alchemy lab, I'm here writing and testing castes for zingers against walruses.
About an hour after that acid zinger idea, I went out for a bit and took a bath when I came home, when the idea hit me for an even more bizarre and hilarious zinger caste. Unfortunately, this one requires the CE_BODY_TRANSFORMATION token, which isn't in game yet, but it basically works by utilizing two castes. Caste #1, the "subcritical zinger," is a regular zinger, but doesn't explode on death. Instead, its blood carries a syndrome that only affects its caste. When something hits it, provided it isn't a one-hit kill, it gets its own blood all over itself, transforming it into a caste #2 (pop ratio 0, so it only occurs this way) "supercritical zinger," which enrages, attacks, and kills itself with an UNDIRECTED_DUST attack, throwing around a contaminant and knocking everything around like a cave-in. If it works, it will be absolutely hilarious, but we'll have to wait and see.
So yeah, that's been my day. Refine reactions, minerals, and playing around with new ways to make zingers blow themselves up. Oh, and testing an easter egg plant. Pretty productive, if you ask me.
Post by: Pan on December 23, 2011, 08:00:49 am
Besides, I think that some civs use zinger leather? I don't see it nowadays, but I remembered it happened before.
Post by: narhiril on December 23, 2011, 02:09:55 pm
Just a thought, but why would enemies kill zingers knowingly? I guess at first, the dwarves would have a secret weapon and the enemies know nothing about it. But after years of sieges, enemies still kill zingers, knowing it'll explode and kill them.
Besides, I think that some civs use zinger leather? I don't see it nowadays, but I remembered it happened before.
I let no one escape, so that information never gets out. :)
But in all seriousness, why do they walk through the same trapped hallways? There's not much I can do about it.
Post by: Pan on December 23, 2011, 07:10:59 pm
Post by: narhiril on December 25, 2011, 06:44:08 pm
Second of all, I've finished most of the legwork for the prototype workbench and reactions. Bayonets (I checked the spelling, turns out I've been spelling it wrong lol, but that's resolved now) will be craftable at a forge from any weapons-grade metal from the get-go, but you won't be able to use them for much until you get the prototype workbench - the reason for this is that making it a permitted tool saved me having to write a new reaction for each bayonet type.
Even with this, however, the number of reactions in this update is extremely numerous - so much so that I'm making another new building, the "scientific library," just to handle the logistics for how new weapon upgrades are unlocked and processed. This building will also be able to transcribe the "unlock" items from the earlier tiers - so in case you got unlucky and somehow missed a technology or two before this point, you can unlock them through this tier three building. The scientific library will require a few tables, cabinets, chairs, and a "file sorting algorithm," which can be researched at the advanced alchemy lab, in order to ensure that this building cannot be built before tier three.
Right now, I'm testing it with placeholder workshop art. The advancements for the weapons require a laundry list of assorted items, which get progressively harder to come by as you get further in. While I'm happy with that sort of investment-based staggering, I'm not sure everyone will be happy with the resources required, which can get a bit... absurd. Of course, this is dwarven !!SCIENCE!!, so the idea is that a lot of embellishments and nonsense goes into every experiment, but I'm not sure how everyone else is feeling about that.
Here's an example reaction for you guys to judge.
Spoiler: reaction (click to show/hide)
This is the "research" reaction for the bayonet dart launcher, which is the first available upgrade (of two) to the magnetic dart launcher. It requires 15 advanced mechanisms, 2 copper bayonets, 1 efficient casting device, 1 tanned hide, 1 magnetic dart launcher (preserved), the tome that unlocks the magnetic dart launcher (also preserved), 1 overgrown pedestal, and 1 silver candelabra. Percent chance of success is 65 - not a guarantee, but high enough that it shouldn't ever take more than a few tries to get it. Thoughts?
Post by: trees on December 26, 2011, 10:35:20 pm
Also, a passing thought about the throwing axes bit you mentioned a few pages back - would it be reasonable for the "launcher" to just be another axe instead of a glove? It would make them a lot more interesting to use as hybrid soldiers instead of just archers, I think, and the idea of a dwarf chucking their last axe in to a crowd of bog trolls with nothing to defend themselves with is a tad silly, although I suppose it's fitting of their average intelligence.
Post by: Pan on December 27, 2011, 09:30:36 pm
I am currently starting a military fortress, and I'm wondering - what weapons work best against bog trolls, Narhiril? Ranged is obviously good, but I would like an opinion regarding melee weapons. Edged weapons usually sever limbs, allowing for a quick advantage. Piercing and blunt deals a lot of pain, but not as much as a severed limb. Blunt is armor piercing. By that logic (which I sort of put together with DF experience. I hope I'm right), edged weapons should be the way to go against bog trolls, who have inferior armor. However, I did not take the bog trolls size into account, and it may not be that easy to slice their limbs off, and it may be preferable to use spears to hit their organs, causing pain, instead. Therefore, should I use spears or axes against bog trolls?
tl;dr Should I use piercing weapons against bog trolls, or edged?
Post by: Meph on December 27, 2011, 09:44:56 pm
Post by: narhiril on December 27, 2011, 10:52:02 pm
I'm testing the advanced alchemy lab for the first time today (outside of firing up the game and resolving error log problems), so I don't know what I'll find. Chances are pretty high that I'll need to fix some things or rebalance some others, but I've managed to get the entire thing into at least a playable state. Six new buildings, 77 new reactions, eight new weapon types (as part of the "upgrade weapons" bit), one new shield, five new tools, a new caste of zinger, dwarven glassmaker savants, optimization tweaks, a few easter eggs, and two new and very unusual types of cheese.
The only thing I haven't gotten around to is the voidwalker creature revamp, but that will be easy to test on its own once it's done. Oh, and that new plant that's supposed to show up under unusual circumstances. I'll save that for tomorrow.
Post by: Pan on December 28, 2011, 03:21:48 am
:o That's a lot of stuff to be added... The new update seems to have as much content as a starting mod... Must take long to test everything out. Just a thought, but perhaps you might like to upload a 'test fortress' save file for some of us to help test all the new reactions?
Post by: nukularpower on December 28, 2011, 03:30:12 am
I seem to be encountering a bug with this mod. When trying to place up/down stairs, up stairs, or up ramps via designation, the designation box just disappears with nothing happening. When trying to build any of those via uild, the symbol appears, the dwarves run stone to it.. and nothing happens. Down stairs and etc, however, work fine.
This is with the preisntalled Ironhand version. It is easy to verify - I reproduced it by dl'ing it anew and trying a quick world just to test it, and it did happen again. Does anyone know if this happens with the raw version? Or is there any easy way to fix this on the install I have? Found a really nice embark I was really looking forward to playing ;D
edit: nm, figured it out ^ ^
Post by: NobodyPro on December 28, 2011, 05:59:42 am
Hello,This is a raw mod and should not effect hard-coded features like stairs or ramps.
I seem to be encountering a bug with this mod. When trying to place up/down stairs, up stairs, or up ramps via designation, the designation box just disappears with nothing happening. When trying to build any of those via uild, the symbol appears, the dwarves run stone to it.. and nothing happens. Down stairs and etc, however, work fine.
This is with the preisntalled Ironhand version. It is easy to verify - I reproduced it by dl'ing it anew and trying a quick world just to test it, and it did happen again. Does anyone know if this happens with the raw version? Or is there any easy way to fix this on the install I have? Found a really nice embark I was really looking forward to playing ;D
Post by: nukularpower on December 28, 2011, 01:32:33 pm
Post by: GaxkangtheUnbound on December 28, 2011, 05:06:08 pm
Post by: narhiril on December 28, 2011, 05:18:47 pm
Might I suggest dwarven knockout gas as a high-tier weapon? Have a process that takes a large amount of a single plant(voracious maws, maybe?) and something else and turn it into a boulder of knockout gas. Apply magma, and you have a horde of unconscious goblins, ready to be experimented on!
This is an interesting idea, especially for capturing TRAPAVOID creatures. Conceivably, you put one of these boulders on a hatch cover or retractable bridge, then drop it into the magma below. In close proximity to cage traps and, if done with the correct timing, this could be a pretty awesome idea, though the range is a bit limited (which could be partially helped by using more than one drop).
Nevertheless, I think this is a very interesting potential advancement. I'll have to play around a bit with syndromes to get it to work the way its supposed to (I've had trouble with CE_UNCONSCIOUSNESS in the past causing suffocation), but when I get it working, I'll be sure to credit you.
One of the new advanced alchemy reactions is designed to more reliably get voracious maws onto the map, so that seems like a good requirement as well.
Post by: GaxkangtheUnbound on December 28, 2011, 05:23:09 pm
Post by: trees on December 28, 2011, 05:32:13 pm
Biological weapons would be very interesting things to use, although actually applying them becomes an issue.
Post by: narhiril on December 28, 2011, 05:48:25 pm
I've actually very recently been working on something that uses a SEV:500 unconsciousness syndrome - in all of my testing of it on dwarves, it hasn't ever caused suffocation. I think undirected paralysis is known for causing suffocation, though.
Biological weapons would be very interesting things to use, although actually applying them becomes an issue.
Oh, you're right, I have my syndromes mixed up. I've had problems with paralysis causing suffocation and I've had problems with unconsciousness never wearing off. But the last time I tested something like that was eons ago, so I'll have to have another look at it.
Pan's post reminds me that I need to go ahead and move LFR-SC to a more permanent download location to free up the test file location. I guess now's as good a time as ever. Then I can get a test world put up for anyone who wants to play around with some unreleased content. :)
EDIT:
LFR-SC (current version = 0.14e) can now be found at this (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=5301) location.
LFR v0.15a (beta 3) test save can now be found at the test raws location - which, for your convenience, is located here (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=4637).
Post by: nukularpower on December 28, 2011, 09:11:11 pm
Post by: trees on December 28, 2011, 09:14:34 pm
Post by: narhiril on December 28, 2011, 09:15:46 pm
They should appear under "toys," I think.
Yeah, they're under toys (they get too easily lost if I make them tools).
Post by: nukularpower on December 29, 2011, 01:10:06 am
Thanks for taking the time to answer! :)
Post by: narhiril on December 29, 2011, 01:51:59 am
Ok, found em, thanks. Now that I have some though, what exactly do you do with them? I processed them at a smelter into "processed ethereal spheres", but I can't find anything that will let me make ethereal bars (which the forges say they need to make weapons out of it.) Is that something you have to unlock?
Thanks for taking the time to answer! :)
Melt them. The easiest way to do that is to open your stocks screen, find "ethereal spheres (processed)," hit "m," then queue up "melt a metal object" at a smelter. Because of the way melting works, you'll get the best results if you only queue up this reaction at one smelter. Ethereal spheres melt down to 1/5th of an ether bar, so a batch of 10 from an alchemy experiment will net you two bars. They can't be used for armor, so don't let anything but a moody dwarf or a highly skilled weaponsmith touch them. Ethereal weapons are roughly equivalent to voidshard in strength, but are much lighter - they make fantastic edged weapons.
---
If you're curious why all of these steps are necessary, it's purely technical. The spheres are produced as toys to make them easy to find, but toys do not accept the [UNIMPROVABLE] token, which means they have quality modifiers - and, if you have a savant or expert alchemist, this means that masterwork spheres pop up from time to time. Melting a masterwork item causes a severe negative thought (and sometimes a tantrum spiral), but using them up in a custom reaction does not, so the spheres are "processed" into another toy in a reaction that does not have an associated skill, so there is no chance of them being of masterwork quality after that, and they are safe to melt down.
Entities do weird things with custom (raw-defined) reactions that enables them to produce the products during worldgen and from caravans without ever meeting the reaction's requirements. For things like special tools, toys, and weapons, this isn't a problem because an entity will not sell you those unless it is explicitly permitted in their entity file, but for ether bars (because they're bars), there is no permission check. These spheres, therefore, need to be melted at the smelter (instead of used in another custom reaction) because making a custom reaction for them would allow you to request them from the dwarven caravan and would cause caravan guards to start carrying around ethereal weapons, which kind of breaks things. I discovered most of this the hard way.
TL;DR version: It's done this way because this is currently the only way I could get their accessibility right where I wanted it.
Post by: nukularpower on December 29, 2011, 04:55:09 pm
Edit: Also, smelting Iovite at a magma smelter still takes fuel. Not sure if intentional.
Post by: GaxkangtheUnbound on December 29, 2011, 05:59:52 pm
Edit: Also, smelting Iovite at a magma smelter still takes fuel. Not sure if intentional.It's intentional. The normal reaction takes 2 fuel.
Ok, thanks, got that. One more question: How many orichalcum bars does it take to enable the first precision tools build at the alchemists? I've got 10, but it's still red when I try to make them. (trying at a magma alc shop, if that matters)Are you sure your alchemist can reach the bars? If he can, try making a non-magma alchemist shop, and fabricate them there.
Post by: Pan on December 29, 2011, 10:54:48 pm
The only thing I haven't gotten around to is the voidwalker creature revamp, but that will be easy to test on its own once it's done. Oh, and that new plant that's supposed to show up under unusual circumstances. I'll save that for tomorrow.
Voidwalker revamp? What's that?
Post by: Meph on December 29, 2011, 11:02:28 pm
Post by: nukularpower on December 29, 2011, 11:37:42 pm
Edit: Also, smelting Iovite at a magma smelter still takes fuel. Not sure if intentional.It's intentional. The normal reaction takes 2 fuel.Ok, thanks, got that. One more question: How many orichalcum bars does it take to enable the first precision tools build at the alchemists? I've got 10, but it's still red when I try to make them. (trying at a magma alc shop, if that matters)Are you sure your alchemist can reach the bars? If he can, try making a non-magma alchemist shop, and fabricate them there.
Yeah, it worked in the normal shop. I made more bars too, so dunno if that had anything to do with it.
lasssst question: Is there a labor associated with using training dummies? Just wondering cuz my jewelcrafter came up and started running on the dodging course even though she is blocked via profile O.o
Post by: narhiril on December 30, 2011, 12:57:11 am
Yeah, it worked in the normal shop. I made more bars too, so dunno if that had anything to do with it.
lasssst question: Is there a labor associated with using training dummies? Just wondering cuz my jewelcrafter came up and started running on the dodging course even though she is blocked via profile O.o
I have never encountered any problems with the workshop profiles as long as I had a standing manager. Check that you have a manager and that his or her requirements are met.
Voidwalkers are a very powerful high-end race in this mod. Revamp just means that she will change some things about them... :)
From a combat balance standpoint, you won't see any significant changes. I'm just going in and adding some more detail to the body to better reflect their pseudo-insectoid design. This is just to fix a few minor lore and art-related inconsistencies (i.e. broken bones in their wings, which shouldn't even have bones).
Post by: Pan on December 30, 2011, 01:08:49 am
Regarding voidwalkers, it appears their void projectors can easily be countered by dwarves who are highly skilled at shield usage. If only there were some way to train the shield skill...
Post by: nukularpower on December 30, 2011, 08:59:00 pm
A small suggestion: Would it be possible to code "events" (ie pauses) for when one of the very low chance reactions happens at the alc shop? I'm especially thinking of ethereal spheres appearing. There is really no way to know when you get these things, other than watching your dwarves as they do the reactions - which is really not feasible when both of them require 10 of their respective materials, which makes a lot of running back and forth.
Anyways, great mod and thanks for makin it!
One more quick question though: any hint as to how you get the thing to unlock the Weapons Concept Laboratory? ^ ^
edit: nevermind the question, I seem to have unlocked it somehow, presumably through the document research thing... again @ that suggestion, though I don't know if it's even possible :)
Post by: Pan on December 30, 2011, 10:33:37 pm
I've been seeing way too many special ops pigeon. Perhaps you could tone that down a little? First time is funny. Afterwards, I just feel its a little out of the DF experience.
I wonder, how does advanced mechanical training dummies work? Anyone can just make a training dummy without some advanced mechanics, so this is obviously different. I'm currently doing a succession fort on this, and I may have to write about this should I use it.
Are nephilim meant to come so often? They come every season. Are they meant to be a often trading race? Perhaps they are powerful due to the importance they put on trade? Anyway, just something I've thought of while playing. Maybe reference this in their lore files?
Bog trolls are really, really powerful in Legends, and my currently civ is being slaughtered by their attacks. A new dwarven general is elected almost yearly after the last one gets stuck on a spike by bog trolls during an offensive or defensive.
Post by: SirAaronIII on December 30, 2011, 10:50:24 pm
2. Agreed. I think I see more specops ones than regular actually. The point is they're very common.
3. It might be a story thing with the advanced mechanisms making the dummy less of a "stand around and get hit" thing and more of a "fighting back" type of deal. Or maybe it's just balance reasons.
4. They were a thing to help break sieges, once, but obviously it's a bit different now.
5. It has to do with their comparative size, probably.
Post by: narhiril on December 30, 2011, 11:35:18 pm
I also acknowledge the need for a more user-friendly bit of documentation for the tech tree and ritual tree, which are getting increasingly complex. Both of these will get more exclusive guides in the near future, as soon as they're done (tech_refsheet.txt and ritual_refsheet.txt).
Post by: nukularpower on December 31, 2011, 01:31:05 am
I've been seeing way too many special ops pigeon. Perhaps you could tone that down a little? First time is funny. Afterwards, I just feel its a little out of the DF experience.
What do those even do? Been seeing their bodies now and then... not even sure what is killing them.
Quote
Are nephilim meant to come so often? They come every season. Are they meant to be a often trading race? Perhaps they are powerful due to the importance they put on trade? Anyway, just something I've thought of while playing. Maybe reference this in their lore files?
Noticed this too, I always have a nephilim AND whatever other race is coming sitting at my depot together.. good thing they don't seem to be at war with anyone ^ ^
Post by: Pan on December 31, 2011, 05:34:53 am
Noticed this too, I always have a nephilim AND whatever other race is coming sitting at my depot together.. good thing they don't seem to be at war with anyone ^ ^
Once had a meowkin ambush riding on pegasuses (???) that attacked the nephilim caravan that came, then left the map. Isolated event. It was weird, and it was a while back. But that incident was the first thing i remembered when you mentioned the nephilim not being at war with anyone.
Post by: Putnam on December 31, 2011, 06:13:08 am
Also, I'm making a version of my troll mod that's compatible with this one.
Harder than you'd think.
I was thinking "fix some duped raws then copy/paste reactions over", but that would be a hack job and kind of dumb, so instead I started up with making copies of all the casting etc. reactions for the metals in my mod AND making a damascus steel surrogate because my mod race can't make steel.
Anything I may have missed, there?
Post by: narhiril on January 01, 2012, 12:41:11 am
^It's pegasoi.
Also, I'm making a version of my troll mod that's compatible with this one.
Harder than you'd think.
I was thinking "fix some duped raws then copy/paste reactions over", but that would be a hack job and kind of dumb, so instead I started up with making copies of all the casting etc. reactions for the metals in my mod AND making a damascus steel surrogate because my mod race can't make steel.
Anything I may have missed, there?
Not that I can think of at the moment. Feel free to use the building raws, if you want. I'd say go ahead and use the reactions too but it sounds to me like you'd need a good bit of tweaking for your needs, and that you're already making some good progress on your own there, so I don't know how much help that would be.
Post by: Pan on January 02, 2012, 01:52:09 am
(http://img1.imagehousing.com/35/7dfa04ae40d21d2a3b2e5c77306ae666.png) (http://www.imagehousing.com/image/935266)
On a side note, I was just looking through some of the older posts to look for something regarding the mod, Narhiril and am I right to say that you seem to like Romans? Cuz you have renamed short sword to 'gladii'. Earlier screenshots of the mod included void projectors shooting dwarves (fear the voidshard projector) that you've nicknamed 'The Centurion'. When the discussion was regarding hybrid melee ranged weapons, you mentioned Roman legionaires chucking pila javelins before engaging.
Prayers of Amnesty gives 'Visthel's Embrace bars'. I thought it was some sort of powerful weapon grade material before I noticed a wounded dwarf was cleaned by 'Visthel's Embrace'. :P
The ritual of nature gives wooden ammunition by stacks of 50. Even javelins. This is intended?
Post by: narhiril on January 02, 2012, 02:17:35 am
Reavers are not bad. The fact that the user will 'viciously' attack people with it in the description... is it just eye candy? Or is it better than a normal slash from any other edged weapon?
(http://img1.imagehousing.com/35/7dfa04ae40d21d2a3b2e5c77306ae666.png) (http://www.imagehousing.com/image/935266)
On a side note, I was just looking through some of the older posts to look for something regarding the mod, Narhiril and am I right to say that you seem to like Romans? Cuz you have renamed short sword to 'gladii'. Earlier screenshots of the mod included void projectors shooting dwarves (fear the voidshard projector) that you've nicknamed 'The Centurion'. When the discussion was regarding hybrid melee ranged weapons, you mentioned Roman legionaires chucking pila javelins before engaging.
Prayers of Amnesty gives 'Visthel's Embrace bars'. I thought it was some sort of powerful weapon grade material before I noticed a wounded dwarf was cleaned by 'Visthel's Embrace'. :P
The ritual of nature gives wooden ammunition by stacks of 50. Even javelins. This is intended?
1) Its a more powerful slash, not just a cosmetic effect. :)
2) Guilty. Nephilim nobility members are mostly named after Roman public officials. I typically give my military dwarves similar custom professions to keep track of them. The leader of the first squad is the Primus Pilus ("first spear"), the leader of every subsequent squad is a centurion. Those above level 4 weapon skill are legionnaires, those below are auxiliaries. When dwarves start to do some impressive things, however, the system starts to break down, as I like giving custom titles.
3) Yep, that's what it's there for.
4) Intended. The old gods are not bound by silly things like conventional stack sizes.
Post by: Pan on January 02, 2012, 02:47:32 am
Its a more powerful slash, not just a cosmetic effect. :)
To the weapons concept lab!
Post by: narhiril on January 02, 2012, 03:02:59 am
Its a more powerful slash, not just a cosmetic effect. :)
To the weapons concept lab!
A large number of weapons from the weapons concept lab (about 1/4th, including ALL of the "dual" weapons) have "special attacks" like this. Some have more than one. Have fun. :)
Post by: Pan on January 02, 2012, 03:53:29 am
Post by: Putnam on January 02, 2012, 04:06:08 am
So yeah, it's better.
The cutlass is like a better sword with a special attack.
Post by: Pan on January 02, 2012, 04:20:02 am
Post by: narhiril on January 02, 2012, 05:30:52 am
It gets better. Got an ethereal misericorde, and an ethereal dadao. So something that sounds italian, and a big knife?
The misericorde is a large dagger with a weaker slash attack, but a stronger pierce attack. It's pretty nasty. The dadao is a stronger version of the longsword. The cutlass is a smaller version of the longsword that can be swung harder (higher velocity multipliers).
As for the scythe - that thing's monstrous. It's enormous and it does... well, exactly what you'd think it would do. It clears fields. :D
Playing around right now with mechanized bayonet crossbows (second upgrade), which took me a good amount of time and effort to unlock. I'm working my way up to try and unlock the final upgrade for them. So far, things have been going eerily well. The workshops are still using placeholder artwork, but everything else seems to be working properly. The advanced alchemical experiment and advanced transmutation experiment might need some balance tweaks, though - right now, they're not really worth the effort.
In case anyone is still using TrueType, this might be a good time to stop. This upcoming update has some items with some very, very long names, which tend to crash the game if run with TrueType right now. Like "journeyman's carbuncle leather bound tome on magnetic projectiles."
I realize that the intricacies of this mod and the tech trees are getting more and more numerous, so I'll be devoting a good bit of time over the next few days to trying to bring the documentation up to par with it. I realized today that even I didn't know what the hell the ritual of nature did without looking in the manual. Both the ritual and mechanical tech trees will be getting their own documentation files.
Post by: Pan on January 02, 2012, 07:51:31 am
As for the scythe - that thing's monstrous. It's enormous and it does... well, exactly what you'd think it would do. It clears fields. :D
None of my dwarves will pick it up. I've made the selected dwarf drop his shield. I've forbidden and reclaimed it. I've used 'specific weapon' to select the mithril scythe. I've changed the matches to 'Exact match'. None of the speardwarves will pick it up.
Could it be the size or anything? Or perhaps the weapon itself? They pick up other stuff just fine. It's quality is masterful. It's made of mithril. It weighs 11.
Post by: trees on January 02, 2012, 04:20:01 pm
Post by: SirAaronIII on January 02, 2012, 04:21:49 pm
Post by: trees on January 02, 2012, 04:26:33 pm
I think the size requirement tag just determines how big the creature has to be to wield it one-handed. Dwarves can still use mauls and two-handed swords from other civs, but only with both hands.
Nah, that's a different token altogether - [TWO_HANDED:x], where until the creature's size is above x they have to use it two-handed. Mauls and two-handers (in this mod, that is) have a minimum size requirement of 52500, which dwarves are above.
Minimum size isn't always respected, though, it seems. In vanilla, pikes have [MINIMUM_SIZE:62500], but goblins can still show up using them.
Post by: Putnam on January 02, 2012, 04:31:47 pm
I made a compatibility patch between this mod and mine (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=89267.0). It's released and part of the main download under the "mod compatibility files" in the ZIP.
Post by: SirAaronIII on January 02, 2012, 04:34:14 pm
I knew I was remembering something wrong. Thanks for giving me a refresher.I think the size requirement tag just determines how big the creature has to be to wield it one-handed. Dwarves can still use mauls and two-handed swords from other civs, but only with both hands.
Nah, that's a different token altogether - [TWO_HANDED:x], where until the creature's size is above x they have to use it two-handed. Mauls and two-handers (in this mod, that is) have a minimum size requirement of 52500, which dwarves are above.
Minimum size isn't always respected, though, it seems. In vanilla, pikes have [MINIMUM_SIZE:62500], but goblins can still show up using them.
Post by: narhiril on January 02, 2012, 04:49:08 pm
Scythes have a size requirement of 65000. It would be very rare (or maybe impossible? I forget how body size modifiers work) to find a dwarf who could wield one.
This is correct. It's not impossible, but you have to find a very large dwarf to even pick the thing up.
Expect this to become significantly easier in the near future.
Post by: Pan on January 02, 2012, 09:34:56 pm
Scythes have a size requirement of 65000. It would be very rare (or maybe impossible? I forget how body size modifiers work) to find a dwarf who could wield one.
This is correct. It's not impossible, but you have to find a very large dwarf to even pick the thing up.
Expect this to become significantly easier in the near future.
.... Well then, that was a waste of mithril. Still, I'll load it in a weapon trap. This actually makes sense, being a a product from an 'experimental' weapon lab. Any other failed experiments I should be worried about?
Post by: narhiril on January 04, 2012, 01:57:11 am
Scythes have a size requirement of 65000. It would be very rare (or maybe impossible? I forget how body size modifiers work) to find a dwarf who could wield one.
This is correct. It's not impossible, but you have to find a very large dwarf to even pick the thing up.
Expect this to become significantly easier in the near future.
.... Well then, that was a waste of mithril. Still, I'll load it in a weapon trap. This actually makes sense, being a a product from an 'experimental' weapon lab. Any other failed experiments I should be worried about?
Now that you mention it, I might go ahead and put together some more "experimental" trap components and just pepper them into the experimental weapons reactions. On top of the existing stuff, of course.
I find it odd that I would have made a weapon with a size requirement of 65000, as I was well aware of dwarven sizes when I put those together. It tells me that I probably had something specific intended for it (possibly as a voidwalker weapon) which was lost somewhere in translation. The good news is that dwarves with the largest (125%) broadness or height modifiers will be able to pick it up, and you should also see some very satisfying results in a weapon trap. The ritual tree will be offering more options for dwarven capability "enhancement" in the near (I hope) future.
Spoiler: More about that, if you're curious (click to show/hide)
Post by: TehNoob on January 04, 2012, 07:26:23 am
Emberlight warriors for the fire god, and lacerators for the blood god. Anything else?
Post by: narhiril on January 04, 2012, 07:20:45 pm
Make specially designed armor and weapons to equip these large warriors as part of the tech tree, maybe?
Emberlight warriors for the fire god, and lacerators for the blood god. Anything else?
Each old god has two or three affiliated servants. Some of these have been hinted at already, some of them are not quite done yet. Abilities have not yet been set in stone, but emberlight warriors will breathe fire and lacerators will have steel skin.
At the very end, I was going to play around with unique equipment for these guys. Something, perhaps, that causes a syndrome if picked up by anyone else. I'd have to work out a way to prevent regular dwarves from trying to haul these around. It's too early to speculate, though.
Post by: Pan on January 06, 2012, 01:04:08 am
Post by: narhiril on January 06, 2012, 05:27:29 pm
Armok, being the god of violence and blood and stuff, might be happy to receive those useless barrels of blood merchants always bring along for rituals.
I was planning to use these for the lacerator ritual. :)
----
Today's devoted mostly to the relatively dry task of giving the tech and ritual trees their own, more streamlined documentation files.
But while I was going about that, I started to think up LFR achievements - which are in no way, shape, or form practical fr me to actually put into the mod, but very fun to consider nevertheless.
Here are a few I came up with.
PEL'S BLESSING
Strike native orichalcum.
DRAGONBORN
Kill a dragon or a wyvern.
MAKE IT STOP
Kill a land mover.
WELL OILED MACHINE
Kill a damascus sentinel.
DARK LORD
Create an entire set of armor out of voidshard.
WHAT THE HELL AM I SUPPOSED TO DO WITH THIS?
Have a bowyer in a strange mood produce a void energy projector.
SAVANTISM
Have a dwarven prodigy create an artifact.
LEGO MANIA
Build an entire "grand" or better bedroom out of colored crystalline blocks.
GHOSTLY VENGEANCE
Create a masterwork ethereal weapon.
HIGH SPEED DELIVERY
Cut off a bog troll's head with a broadhead javelin.
DODONGOWNED
Lose your fortress to a lizardman attack.
CHEEKY BASTARDS
Allow an elven caravan to be slaughtered by bog trolls.
LINES OF COMMUNICATION
Meet with ten nephilim diplomats.
MEOW MIX
Export over 10000 to the meowkin.
DIS AR FORT NOW
Lose your fortress to a bog troll attack.
EMBRACE ETERNITY
Lose your fortress to a voidwalker attack.
HUNGRY HUNGRY KOGUT
Unlock the exotic cheesery.
VORUK'S BLESSING
Create a "royal" dining hall.
PRACTICE MAKES PERFECT
Build one of each training workshop.
I HAVE MANY LEATHER BOUND BOOKS
Unlock all of the tomes from tier three of the tech tree.
VENKMAN'S CONUNDRUM
Create a phantasmal statue.
ARMOK'S FAVORED
Have one dwarf kill over a hundred notable enemies.
BREATH OF GOD
Clean a wound with Visthel's embrace.
LARGE HADRINE COLLIDER
Create a piece of hadrine armor.
PATTERN WELDING
Create an entire set of armor out of damascus steel.
ITS JUST A LITTLE BUNNY RABBIT
Kill an enemy with an empyrean carbuncle.
OCTOMOM
Have a dwarf give birth to eight or more children.
BIG BANG THEORY
Have an experiment destroy your alchemy lab.
WHAT WE HATH WROUGHT
Create a curious ritual knife.
HOW DO THEY WORK?
Unlock the magnetic dart launcher.
TESLA'S OWN
Unlock the advanced magnetic dart launcher.
WEAPONS OF WAR
Unlock the spring-loaded bayonet crossbow.
HOLY CRUSADE
Kill a greater demon.
VISTHEL'S EDICT
Kill a greater demon with an empyrean carbuncle. Yes, it can be done.
Post by: Imp on January 07, 2012, 07:36:35 am
I've been on break from DF. I returned earlier tonight to the game, and gladly (despite many ungame-related interruptions) prepared to embark upon a new LFR realm. Was rather distracted, scattered, having to turn my attention to other things frequently, deeply hoping I could focus upon the game despite this, suspend disbelief, and get some rich connection to fantasy before I got to tired and had to head to sleep.
I read over the embark screen, smiling at its familiar patterns, until I reached a word unfamiliar to me... humbabas.
Humbabas.
...ere the humbabas get hungry.
I've not looked to see what the heck a humbaba is. I'm not going to, at least not yet. Perhaps latter, after my dwarves have tangled with a hungry one, and my mind has filled even further with wonder and confusion.
Because I'm not confused yet. Right or wrong - right now, in my dazed and semi-sleepy state, almost balanced between normal consciousness and random dreaming, I know what a humbaba is. Baba Yaga was one such, the haglike hermit-witch which flies around on a giant mortar, kidnaps (prolly to eat) children, and lives in a door-less chicken-legged hut that dances from place to place. Humbabas stalk my embark site, and all is well and whole in my imagination. Disbelief has been quite suspended.
Huzzah to Narhiril, modder of endless wonder, delight, and dismay!
Post by: Wwolin on January 07, 2012, 07:04:25 pm
Post by: nukularpower on January 07, 2012, 08:16:13 pm
So was that changed intentionally or is it indeed missing?
Sucks cuz I just found adamantine and my best military dwarf is a legendary dodging, legendary swordsdwarf, so I wanted to try it :)
Post by: Imp on January 07, 2012, 11:48:34 pm
Peace had ruled Orderguards for more than two years past its founding. Some of us settled here seeking peace, and most of us worship dwarven gods of happiness and silence, though a few followed a carbunkle god of animals. The years have been prosperous and largely devoted to preparations towards preserving our peace.
In late spring of the third year, an Aramok was sighted just ahead, and barely to the east, of large group of migrants. The fortress defenses and defenders were ready to handle an Aramok at the gates but not out in the foothills, so there was nothing to do but regret the carnage as the fell canine scattered the once orderly line of dwarves and domesticates.
A foal led the Aramok a small distance from the others before being slain, then the monster turned back to the others, catching and rending a fishery worker and a tanner almost faster than their blood could spurt from their wounds. Most of the other 18 migrants had managed to put significant distance between themselves and the fiend, but not Shazak Silverysnarled, a cook who continued to run even as the beast chased him. Inexplicably, the monster stopped following him as the cook ran around the curve of a pond and hurried on to the fortress gate.
I had Shazak brought to me where I stood upon the wall, watching the Aramok slowly amble in fits and starts towards the gate then appear to regain its focus and steadily lope in a direct line towards the ready defenses. The beast would soon be beyond threatening the safety of any dwarf, but what had saved this wandering cook in his moment of need, who definitely had no speed to outrun the charging Aramok?
Shazak was almost to modest to answer me, but he finally claimed that he had simply concentrated on surviving. I was envious, there are few teachers of concentration and none has ever offered to teach me anything of their mysterious art. Shazak says that he was only competent at this skill and unable to teach me himself, and was unsure if the beast's behavior had anything to do with him, but when he was running he was concentrating, that was all he could say about his survival.
After the Aramok was defeated I gave word for the remains and belongings of the fallen migrants to be gathered, only to be given word that a fishery worker who had been within the first set of migrants to join our seven founders had withdrawn from society. We delayed the funerals, and so discovered that Kerlig Bronzeroad claimed he had known the dead fishery worker, they had been students together under the same teacher. Kerlig's mood had fashioned Drinkmighty, a magnetite coffin marked with an image of dwarves traveling to Orderguards and with three crosses. I found my eyes straying from the third of those crosses to Shazak. Why he was not the beast's third victim I simply do not understand.
Post by: Pan on January 07, 2012, 11:56:10 pm
Post by: Putnam on January 08, 2012, 12:03:01 am
I do believe that the 2 handed sword is the 'long sword', nukularpower.
There's also a normal two-handed sword that is human sized, and I think that's where the confusion comes from.
I'm assuming that dwarves wield the long sword as if it were two-handed.
Post by: nukularpower on January 08, 2012, 11:33:57 am
Anyways I just replaced a reaction in the exotic weapons thing to make a 2h sword, so now all is good :)
Post by: Pan on January 08, 2012, 11:47:03 am
Post by: Putnam on January 08, 2012, 02:44:30 pm
Not sure about that because he mentions the long sword being added as just another normal weapon elsewhere. Also, that swordsdwarf was using one before and it wasnt "multigrasp".
Anyways I just replaced a reaction in the exotic weapons thing to make a 2h sword, so now all is good :)
1. She
2. Hmm...
Post by: SirAaronIII on January 08, 2012, 02:47:41 pm
Post by: narhiril on January 08, 2012, 04:51:38 pm
I always thought you could wield 2H weapons in one hand, but then you'd take a penalty on attacks.
Yeah, they don't work quite right in the current version. You'll see dwarves wielding glaives in one hand sometimes. Not much I can do about it, unfortunately. >.<
Narhiril, I'm currently starting a test fort for your test release. What is available and what isn't on what you uploaded, currently?
It's a *mostly* working preview of the new workshops, which are using placeholder artwork. I've already identified two issues that I have fixed, but are not fixed in the test save. If you're comfortable doing so, here's what needs to be changed. Both of these changes can be safely added to a current save with dfworldtinker (or with a new world).
entity_default, dwarves are missing the line...
[PERMITTED_REACTION:UPGRADE_TOME_XBOW_THREE]
reaction_tech_t3, the reaction [REACTION:ATTACH_CAPACITOR_MAGDART] is missing the line...
[REAGENT:C:1:TOOL:ITEM_TOOL_MAGDART_BLUEPRINT_THREE:NONE:NONE]
... that's all I've found thus far.
Note that the world provided with the test copy uses a bit of an unusual set of parameters, for the purpose of testing certain underground features.
Post by: Imp on January 08, 2012, 08:15:17 pm
Post by: Pan on January 08, 2012, 10:35:36 pm
I always thought you could wield 2H weapons in one hand, but then you'd take a penalty on attacks.
Yeah, they don't work quite right in the current version. You'll see dwarves wielding glaives in one hand sometimes. Not much I can do about it, unfortunately. >.<Narhiril, I'm currently starting a test fort for your test release. What is available and what isn't on what you uploaded, currently?
It's a *mostly* working preview of the new workshops, which are using placeholder artwork. I've already identified two issues that I have fixed, but are not fixed in the test save. If you're comfortable doing so, here's what needs to be changed. Both of these changes can be safely added to a current save with dfworldtinker (or with a new world).
entity_default, dwarves are missing the line...
[PERMITTED_REACTION:UPGRADE_TOME_XBOW_THREE]
reaction_tech_t3, the reaction [REACTION:ATTACH_CAPACITOR_MAGDART] is missing the line...
[REAGENT:C:1:TOOL:ITEM_TOOL_MAGDART_BLUEPRINT_THREE:NONE:NONE]
... that's all I've found thus far.
Note that the world provided with the test copy uses a bit of an unusual set of parameters, for the purpose of testing certain underground features.
Place holder artwork only? So the reactions all work fine? I got some free time right now on sick leave, lying in bed with nothing to do. Let me know if there is anything that may need some beta testing before release :)
I'll just start up a fort now in a new world with the test copy's raws and see how it has been going.
Post by: nukularpower on January 08, 2012, 11:32:05 pm
After spending many hours with LFR now, just wanted to say thanks for the effort you put into making it. Looking forward to these neat sounding crossbows coming up O.o
Post by: narhiril on January 09, 2012, 07:43:48 pm
Small request: For wood (and/or bone, or both together) "practice" javelins. Ideally they would be totally useless in real combat, only really existing to make managing a practice marksman squad you want to use javelin throwers a bit easier, so they have non-metal ammo to practice with. They wouldn't even need to be hammerhead or any special type - totally generic junk ammo.
After spending many hours with LFR now, just wanted to say thanks for the effort you put into making it. Looking forward to these neat sounding crossbows coming up O.o
This would actually solve another problem I have right now - dwarven caravan guards showing up with javelin throwers and no ammunition for them. I think the problem is coming from javelin throwers being a permitted weapon, while javelins are not (instead crafted from a permitted reaction). I was considering moving the javelin thrower to the advanced mechanics workshop to fix this, but permitting a weak type of javelin ammo would both allow for training and at least give the guards something to fire at people.
Post by: Pan on January 10, 2012, 11:50:51 am
Post by: narhiril on January 10, 2012, 05:25:24 pm
So, since the test copy seems rather intact and everything currently works pretty well with no bugs, what's the list of stuff before the next full version, narhiril?
Artwork, some more testing, and a few odds and ends (i.e. practice javelins). I don't want to give a timeframe yet because school starts back up for me this coming week, so I'll have to see what kind of time I have.
Advanced alchemical experiements and advanced transmutation experiments work in the test copy, but they need some tweaking. Right now, they're a pretty poor investment of resources (unless you manage to create the cheese recipe), and I'm not at all satisfied with them...
Aside from...
[PRODUCT:2:1:BOULDER:NO_SUBTYPE:INORGANIC:FAIL_STONE_ALCH_HOLYCRAP]
... I'm satisfied with that line.
Post by: kingfisher1112 on January 10, 2012, 10:27:06 pm
Post by: narhiril on January 11, 2012, 01:40:53 am
Litteraly the first time i played it, i built an altar and it lit fire to everything.
Yeah I did that once when I was testing it :D
Post by: kingfisher1112 on January 11, 2012, 02:09:07 am
Post by: Putnam on January 11, 2012, 02:11:06 am
Post by: kingfisher1112 on January 11, 2012, 02:14:00 am
Post by: Putnam on January 11, 2012, 02:16:21 am
Savant and weapon prodigy. What do they do.
Savants have natural skill in alchemy, and gain alchemy skill faster, but they are slow learners in all else.
Weapon prodigies are the same in weaponsmithing skills.
There are others that are similar.
Post by: kingfisher1112 on January 11, 2012, 02:18:37 am
Post by: Putnam on January 11, 2012, 02:21:10 am
They are castes.
Post by: Pan on January 11, 2012, 03:10:08 am
Post by: narhiril on January 11, 2012, 03:23:40 am
Weapon and armor prodigy guys are pretty common. Frequently have at least one of each in my forts.
That's approximately the desired distribution.
I briefly considered giving all dwarves a natural skill of 1 in weapon, armor, and bowyer skills. That way children would make something useful in strange moods instead of making those damned tetrahedrite mugs over and over again. But I suppose they aren't as much fun if they're too common.
Post by: Pan on January 11, 2012, 04:25:12 am
Bog troll siege came right after a voidwalker ambush and left 2 swordmasters, 1 axelord and the entire iovium hammerdwarf rookie squad of 3 dead. I could swear the bastards planned this shit. The voidwalker ambush had 2 squads of annihilators that crept up the causeway and shot at the marksdwarves in the fortifications, shooting and killing one outright while injuring another (hole in fortifications and two marksdwarves were standing there instead of the 9 tiles they could possibly be at). I sent my swordmasters (3) out to run the bastards off. They were in full damascus steel and wielding a mithril cutlass, ethereal dadao, and a common gladii. They hacked the voidwalkers to pieces, taking no shots thanks to their shields.
Then the bog trolls showed up in the process of the slaughter and made a beeline for my causeway. 2 lasher squads and 1 cutter squad. I retreated the men back in before they could see the bog trolls while on the causeway and charge them, but realized the militia commander was lagging behind due to him lacking a foot and using a crutch. The cutter squad caught up and tried to smash through his armor to no avail. I decided to charge all my soldiers out to save him. When the carnage had ended, I had lost 6 of my fort's best equipped and trained (the latter doesnt apply to those idiots with iovium hammers) to bog troll lashes. Those things are overpowered, them lashes.
Also, causeways are a bad idea to fight on since everyone is always falling off the edge.
Post by: Pan on January 11, 2012, 10:51:47 am
They cannot be stockpiled, either. Whats with that?
Post by: Esta on January 11, 2012, 11:33:54 am
Small request: For wood (and/or bone, or both together) "practice" javelins. Ideally they would be totally useless in real combat, only really existing to make managing a practice marksman squad you want to use javelin throwers a bit easier, so they have non-metal ammo to practice with. They wouldn't even need to be hammerhead or any special type - totally generic junk ammo.
This would actually solve another problem I have right now - dwarven caravan guards showing up with javelin throwers and no ammunition for them. I think the problem is coming from javelin throwers being a permitted weapon, while javelins are not (instead crafted from a permitted reaction). I was considering moving the javelin thrower to the advanced mechanics workshop to fix this, but permitting a weak type of javelin ammo would both allow for training and at least give the guards something to fire at people.
Well, I personally wouldn't advise just making it outright weak. There should definitely be a weakness compared to the better javelins, so that people don't just create lots of them instead of the more powerful javelins, but not so weak that they're useless for the caravan guards to bring and become dead weight (or maybe you do, given the Fun potential.) In any case, I thought of an idea to try to weaken the cheaper javelins somewhat:
Code: [Select]
[ITEM_AMMO:ITEM_AMMO_JAVELINS_NORMAL]
[NAME:javelin:javelins]
[CLASS:JAVELIN]
[SIZE:2000]
[ATTACK:EDGE:100000:100000:strike:strikes:NO_SUB:900]
[ATTACK:EDGE:10:200000:strike:strikes:NO_SUB:1250]
[ATTACK:BLUNT:100000:2000:smash:smashes:NO_SUB:900]My idea is to try to weaken them substantially by cutting the size and making them more unpredictable - they may be far more efficient in javelin-per-bar because the 25-per-1 reaction is hardcoded [I think], but they are also weaker due to their size and speed cut, at least theoretically. I'm not sure how well they'll turn out, and I run so many experimental tests that I'm not sure how balanced they are and that I'm not particularly qualified to try and test them. Hopefully they'll be a good starting point, at least.
Post by: astianax on January 11, 2012, 12:54:43 pm
the first migrant wave consisted entirely of another armor prodigy and his two children, a savant and another armor prodigy. took a bit longer for my first weapon prodigy to arrive, but man was that fort swimming in prodigies. sheer insanity. haven't seen similar since, and that early assortment stuck with me
i also enjoy the 'practice' javelins idea. partially since my forts usually focus on 'steal the shit off the merchant guards to melt down or sell back to them' in the first year or two while still setting up to mass produce everything
Post by: Pan on January 11, 2012, 01:10:03 pm
Post by: nukularpower on January 11, 2012, 02:14:14 pm
I always wondered what the big deal with the accidental cheese is all about. But I suppose LFR is 'there to be discovered, not asked'? ;D
Bog troll siege came right after a voidwalker ambush and left 2 swordmasters, 1 axelord and the entire iovium hammerdwarf rookie squad of 3 dead. I could swear the bastards planned this shit. The voidwalker ambush had 2 squads of annihilators that crept up the causeway and shot at the marksdwarves in the fortifications, shooting and killing one outright while injuring another (hole in fortifications and two marksdwarves were standing there instead of the 9 tiles they could possibly be at). I sent my swordmasters (3) out to run the bastards off. They were in full damascus steel and wielding a mithril cutlass, ethereal dadao, and a common gladii. They hacked the voidwalkers to pieces, taking no shots thanks to their shields.
Then the bog trolls showed up in the process of the slaughter and made a beeline for my causeway. 2 lasher squads and 1 cutter squad. I retreated the men back in before they could see the bog trolls while on the causeway and charge them, but realized the militia commander was lagging behind due to him lacking a foot and using a crutch. The cutter squad caught up and tried to smash through his armor to no avail. I decided to charge all my soldiers out to save him. When the carnage had ended, I had lost 6 of my fort's best equipped and trained (the latter doesnt apply to those idiots with iovium hammers) to bog troll lashes. Those things are overpowered, them lashes.
Also, causeways are a bad idea to fight on since everyone is always falling off the edge.
Whips are extremely overpowered in DF, it's not just a LFR thing. I personally change mine to be an edged attack instead of the defaut blunt (which makes no sense at all) with low penetration. After all, if you whip someone, they get cut, not crushed. They also normally get a 5x velocity damage multiplier, which is 2.5x higher than any unmodded weapon in the game, so I tone that down too (another reason they are so ridiculous normally.)
I find it works out a lot more realistic. There is a reason RL soldiers didnt use whips in big battles - they are totally useless vs armor. DF takes the other extreme, where armor is totally useless against them, thanks to them being classified as blunt for some reason and giving them an extremely small hit area and extremely high velocity multiplier. If it annoys you, try changing it like I did - they are still very effective against low armor, but not the ridiculous, indefensible deathdealers they are by default.
Post by: Imp on January 11, 2012, 11:51:02 pm
I cannot dump the slabs of accreditations. None of my garbagedwarfs will even pick them up. That makes me sad. Is there a reaction anywhere to get rid of them without getting the technology advancement slabs? Cuz I also have a ton of those.
They cannot be stockpiled, either. Whats with that?
Interestingly, I can dump these. In fact, that's how I manage them, every so often I dump over the workstations that produce them, with my active dumpsite the center of the alchemy workshop. Everyone rushes over and rapidly hauls them off, and then my (un)lucky alchemist doesn't have much delay between each new chance to risk his life.
So, in the (o)rders menu, do you have any of your (r)efuse turned off? if not, maybe your difficulty lies in what your garbagedwarves can and cannot haul? I keep all labors on most of my dwaves, so maybe some combination of unpermitted tasks is blocking the dumping for you?
Post by: narhiril on January 12, 2012, 02:04:04 am
Alright, three things to address here.
Esta - I agree, they shouldn't be useless, but clearly inferior to the more expensive javelin types. While I like the idea of a randomized attack, I will probably scale back the numbers and size quite a bit, as a lot of the ranged power of a projectile comes from the weapon with which it was fired, which is not being changed at all.
Pan - I have not had any trouble getting rid of slabs of accreditation. Excess technology advancement slabs can be removed at a trash compactor. I will add another reaction to this workshop to simply destroy the original slabs for use when you've already unlocked everything. This reaction will not use any specific labor, so it will be much faster. The reason that javelins don't work properly with caravan guards is because javelin throwers are a permitted weapon whereas javelins are just products of a permitted reaction - it had to be this way because the stock 25 to 1 bar ratio is hardcoded. Caravan guards will only use permitted equipment, and caravans will only ever trade permitted equipment (this is why you can get bayonets from a caravan, but not advanced mechanisms). I do, however, agree that your fight did not quite work out to be quite balanced. My guess here is that the massive size of the bog trolls (combined with the whip's ridiculous velocity multiplier) is giving them so much armor penetration that they're easily killing much better equipped units. To some degree, they should be challenging foes, but the lashers are still an order of magnitude above the others. Which brings me to my next point...
nuklearpower - do you mind if I make your modification to whips a part of the mod (with credit, of course)? Something as simple as changing the attacks from blunt to edge seems to bring them down to earth considerably, and I like what you did with the velocity multipliers.
Post by: Pan on January 12, 2012, 09:58:11 am
I do, however, agree that your fight did not quite work out to be quite balanced
Ha! Its a challenge and thats good enough for me!
Post by: nukularpower on January 12, 2012, 12:52:09 pm
nuklearpower - do you mind if I make your modification to whips a part of the mod (with credit, of course)? Something as simple as changing the attacks from blunt to edge seems to bring them down to earth considerably, and I like what you did with the velocity multipliers.
Feel free - I suggest increasing their contact area to something bigger than 1 and looking at scourges as well, which are similar if not quite as bad (they are edged already, at least.)
I just got annoyed having adamantine-clad dwarves get oneshotted by goblins with copper whips, or even worse, tungsten ones. How a metal whip works is sort of beyond me, but meh.
Post by: Pan on January 13, 2012, 12:30:53 pm
Post by: narhiril on January 13, 2012, 02:35:48 pm
Knockout gas from voracious maws. Who do they work on?
Anything GENERAL_POISON.... so just about everything. They work by dropping them into magma. I haven't tested them very well yet, so I'm not sure how effective they'll be, but the idea was to line them up atop a bunch of hatch covers and drop them via lever into a magma-lined corridor full of enemies... Then maybe flip some retractable bridges over the magma and charge them with your dudes, or just let the traps go to town. It's a lot more work than just dropping your enemies into magma, but it has more possibilities for capturing trap-avoiding creatures and defeating larger voidwalker attacks in smaller fortresses. Plus, voidshard isn't magma-safe, so you can get the loot if you take the time to kill them this way instead.
I'm reworking the advanced plant transmutation experiment because apparently just getting a hold of voracious maws isn't good enough, you still have to be in a terrifying biome to grow them, so I'm going to greatly increase the yield of that reaction to make it a more viable source for those not in the correct biomes.
Right now I'm playing around with a pretty cool idea for an easter egg that I'm not entirely sure will work, but there's only one way to find out. Also, I'm testing another tweak that might make simplified clothing even better for FPS than it already is. If all goes well, I should be able to prevent clothing from degrading, which will be a nice little performance enhancement.
Post by: Pan on January 14, 2012, 10:34:15 pm
Post by: Pan on January 15, 2012, 04:24:33 am
Post by: Putnam on January 15, 2012, 05:09:25 am
In the test fortress, the merchant asked me if I wanted to import Palladium bars and Neodymium bars. Since I believe they were in the tech tree, is this intentional?
Unfortunately, a side-effect of having a reaction that has ANY metal bar as a product makes that bar show up as tradeable in-game.
Post by: narhiril on January 16, 2012, 02:17:47 pm
In the test fortress, the merchant asked me if I wanted to import Palladium bars and Neodymium bars. Since I believe they were in the tech tree, is this intentional?
Yes, I decided to allow you to import them. You can't use them for much until the tech tree reaches them, so you can take advantage of the trade routes and stock up. It's an incentive for fortresses to better protect their caravans.
I finished up some much better documentation for the tech tree and ritual tree today. School starts tomorrow, so don't expect a whole lot to get done this week, but I was able to get an underground civilization working in hell. :D
Post by: Pan on January 18, 2012, 08:25:13 pm
Post by: narhiril on January 19, 2012, 03:31:44 pm
Looking through the raws, I noticed that the bayonet dart launchers will use the dagger skill instead of the sword skill as previously mentioned?
Oops, I screwed that up. It should be sword. That's what I get for being lazy and forgetting what I used copy+paste with.
I've got a few more things left to do on this version - mostly artwork for the workshops and some re-balancing of the advanced alchemy/transmutation reactions. I also have a possible improvement that I need to test for simplified clothing. Then I've got one really elaborate easter egg that I've been working on, but that might have to wait for the next update.
Dwarves can also now manufacture "crude javelins" out of any normal ammunition material (including bone and wood), which are smaller and substantially weaker than the other javelin types, but should at least make the dwarven caravan guards show up with something to fire from their javelin throwers... and it will allow you to put together javelin squads that can train themselves more effectively.
Post by: Pan on January 20, 2012, 01:40:01 pm
Post by: astianax on January 20, 2012, 04:02:15 pm
Post by: Pan on January 22, 2012, 02:07:28 pm
Something I noticed that's great about nephilim caravans is the huge amount of meltable steel and anti goblin, lizardman ambushes. :D
Post by: narhiril on January 23, 2012, 03:26:17 pm
Wonderful. Alchemy lab exploded somehow and I think something fell into the magma nearby.
Something I noticed that's great about nephilim caravans is the huge amount of meltable steel and anti goblin, lizardman ambushes. :D
That tends to happen from time to time. ;)
Artwork and some much more detailed manual and reference files got finished today, which means that the list of things I have left to do for this release is getting pretty small. I do want to do some extensive testing on this new simplified clothing addition, which will likely take me a day or two, depending on how well it goes.
I'd also like to get a few new still reactions added, so you can brew specific alcohol rather than just setting it to "brew drink /r" and hoping that your dwarves grab the high-value stuff. Oh, and I nerfed whips based on Pan and nuklearpower's feedback. Some of you are probably going to be excited about that. As always, one or two more easter eggs might sneak their way in before the release. I have a somewhat awesome idea for a new piece of armor to "accidentally" leave in the product lines for advanced alchemical experiments >:3
A more long term goal is to get adventure mode reactions done for experimental weapons, but I haven't decided how to balance this just yet, as I have very limited experience with adventure mode. That might not make it into this version, but it's in the works. I'm going to go ahead and update the poll now, as I think I got all of the sort of feedback I wanted for this particular question.
Post by: nukularpower on January 23, 2012, 09:32:30 pm
Anyways, my real answer to the poll question would be this: The Nephilim are very fast and tough and their caravans come, it seems, every single season. They are very good at stopping seiges/ambushes - you don't really need to protect them, cuz they protect you ^ ^
I don't mind them being strong, but imo, it would be nice if there was a higher chance of them being hostile, if it isnt possible to adjust how often they send caravans. Their constant presence sort of takes away from the dangerous feel you otherwise get from the hostile races.
This certainly isn't a problem with the meowkin, btw. Every time they show up when there is a fight going on, they just get butchered, poor things...
Post by: Meph on January 23, 2012, 09:35:45 pm
But so many options to pick from... Maybe allow several votes for each user ?
Post by: nukularpower on January 23, 2012, 09:41:55 pm
Post by: SirAaronIII on January 23, 2012, 10:48:22 pm
Maybe it's just that I'm stupid.
Post by: nukularpower on January 23, 2012, 10:53:02 pm
Post by: Pan on January 24, 2012, 10:19:28 am
My issue is that I can never find any orichalcum ever. Not even the caravans have any. And then once I get it, I have no idea what to do with it. It seems like there's a big gap between regular fort life before orichalcum and after, when all the stuff needing advanced mechanisms and things like that come in.
Maybe it's just that I'm stupid.
Set mineral distribution to 100 and it pops up almost anywhere in clusters.
Post by: narhiril on January 24, 2012, 10:32:54 am
I would place my bet on #12. As unfair as it sounds, it might have not been the best idea to add it, since it will tamper with the results.
But so many options to pick from... Maybe allow several votes for each user ?
I honestly don't know how to do that... the "edit poll" option seems kind of primitive in that regard.
Quick question: I seem to remember reading somewhere that LFR is fully compatible with Fortress Defense. Is that true or did I imagine it? Cuz I've been looking, and I can't find that quote now, if it ever really existed. Been wanting to try them together but dont want to mess everything up in the process.
It existed, and as far as I know, it's still true. FD adds a couple of files to the raws and doesn't touch any of the default ones, while the few stock raws that LFR modifies do not cause any problems in FD.
Simplified clothing will not work for FD civilizations... well, let me put it this way. It will work, but it won't have any effect on those civs, only simplifying the clothing for LFR's entities.
So yes, now that I've pulled up FD's thread and looked at the file contents, I think I can safely say that LFR and FD are still compatible. If you want to add 11 more enemies to LFR's three and a half, I certainly won't stop you. :)
My issue is that I can never find any orichalcum ever. Not even the caravans have any. And then once I get it, I have no idea what to do with it. It seems like there's a big gap between regular fort life before orichalcum and after, when all the stuff needing advanced mechanisms and things like that come in.
Maybe it's just that I'm stupid.
When you get it, you smelt it into a bar at the forge and then use that bar at the alchemy to create a precision tool kit, which is necessary for the advanced mechanics workshop. I have split the tech and ritual trees into their own separate manual and reference files for this coming release.... Obviously that doesn't do you a whole lot of good right now, but it should help you more easily navigate the advancements very shortly.
I will admit that LFR's tech tree is quite complex, but I believe that complexity is what allows me to add all of the little hidden gems that make the game so much fun (for me, at least).
EDIT: Pan beat me to that one ^_^
Post by: narhiril on January 24, 2012, 10:36:14 am
Are you taking bets on which option wins the poll? xD
Anyways, my real answer to the poll question would be this: The Nephilim are very fast and tough and their caravans come, it seems, every single season. They are very good at stopping seiges/ambushes - you don't really need to protect them, cuz they protect you ^ ^
I don't mind them being strong, but imo, it would be nice if there was a higher chance of them being hostile, if it isnt possible to adjust how often they send caravans. Their constant presence sort of takes away from the dangerous feel you otherwise get from the hostile races.
This certainly isn't a problem with the meowkin, btw. Every time they show up when there is a fight going on, they just get butchered, poor things...
Right, I wanted to address this as well. Have you carried them into a barony or higher fortress yet? Because once you get a baron, they start sending diplomats with the caravans, and it only takes losing two or three diplomats to get them very, very angry with you. In the midst of a hidden voidwalker siege, nephal magisters tend to have a very short lifespan.
So basically, they protect you... at first. But sooner or later, they expect you to return the favor. And if you don't, they barricade your trade routes. Some of the most fun battles I've had with LFR have been attempts to break a nephilim siege caused by their earlier sending of diplomats into a mire of bog trolls and voidwalkers. They do show up quite often, though. I might axe a season or two (I believe they are active in three at the moment) in the future to make it more manageable.
Post by: darkflagrance on January 24, 2012, 12:12:41 pm
Simplified clothing will not work for FD civilizations... well, let me put it this way. It will work, but it won't have any effect on those civs, only simplifying the clothing for LFR's entities.
Yes - I believe I removed all clothing for Fortress Defense's civilizations except for armor to reduce clutter from sieges, therefore simplified clothing should not affect already naked soldiers.
On a different note: the more the manual is like a "Dicken's novel", the more awesome it will be in my opinion. I love reading game documentation (unironically!!!)
Post by: Pan on January 24, 2012, 12:58:39 pm
Dumb joke on funny, previously unnoticed voting option aside, I voted on the rather strange artwork. The workshops have rather strange coloring in Ironhand (LoFR's 'default' graphic pack) with brightly colored background tiles. The graphics are almost unplayable in Mayday and very strange looking in Phoebus and ASCII, with bushes and trees having colorful background tiles and rocks like microline looking like there is a blue carbonite goblin in there.
Social life destruction beats a close second, though. ;D
Post by: nukularpower on January 24, 2012, 03:18:39 pm
Are you taking bets on which option wins the poll? xD
Anyways, my real answer to the poll question would be this: The Nephilim are very fast and tough and their caravans come, it seems, every single season. They are very good at stopping seiges/ambushes - you don't really need to protect them, cuz they protect you ^ ^
I don't mind them being strong, but imo, it would be nice if there was a higher chance of them being hostile, if it isnt possible to adjust how often they send caravans. Their constant presence sort of takes away from the dangerous feel you otherwise get from the hostile races.
This certainly isn't a problem with the meowkin, btw. Every time they show up when there is a fight going on, they just get butchered, poor things...
Right, I wanted to address this as well. Have you carried them into a barony or higher fortress yet? Because once you get a baron, they start sending diplomats with the caravans, and it only takes losing two or three diplomats to get them very, very angry with you. In the midst of a hidden voidwalker siege, nephal magisters tend to have a very short lifespan.
So basically, they protect you... at first. But sooner or later, they expect you to return the favor. And if you don't, they barricade your trade routes. Some of the most fun battles I've had with LFR have been attempts to break a nephilim siege caused by their earlier sending of diplomats into a mire of bog trolls and voidwalkers. They do show up quite often, though. I might axe a season or two (I believe they are active in three at the moment) in the future to make it more manageable.
Yes, several. After trying the other mods I've been sticking with LFR - I've had 2 or 3 barony forts. I've definately seen quite a few Neph diplomats, though I guess not enough have died to make them actually declare war - I only really recall one "accident".
Personally I would appreciate turning down their caravans, because aside from what I said before, the constant resupplies take out a lot of the tension of a tough embark, especially since the Neph tend to carry a ton of wood and steel - not to mention hauling trade stuff back and forth is a bit of a pain in the back for my poor dwarves :)
Just to add that, if LFR moves to a modloader type thing like Genesis has, an option to have them start hostile would be pretty rad.
Post by: nukularpower on January 24, 2012, 03:22:01 pm
Post by: narhiril on January 24, 2012, 04:33:30 pm
YEA! Y U NO POST LEWD PICS OF YOURSELF? SO UNREASONABLE! !!RAGE!!
Dumb joke on funny, previously unnoticed voting option aside, I voted on the rather strange artwork. The workshops have rather strange coloring in Ironhand (LoFR's 'default' graphic pack) with brightly colored background tiles. The graphics are almost unplayable in Mayday and very strange looking in Phoebus and ASCII, with bushes and trees having colorful background tiles and rocks like microline looking like there is a blue carbonite goblin in there.
Social life destruction beats a close second, though. ;D
The workshops that you're referring to are getting overhauled today (shrines, experimental materials, and weapons concept) because I'm a little sick of them, too. A lot of the "background color" problems are coming from the earlier raws, which I did without really having any intricate knowledge of how colors worked.
This is the kind of feedback that is helpful, though, because it gives me a specific thing to comb through the raws and target.
Just to add that, if LFR moves to a modloader type thing like Genesis has, an option to have them start hostile would be pretty rad.
You guys are giving me too much credit, I have absolutely no idea how to go about even starting to create something like that. Unless there's some template for that program that I'm missing, I don't have the ability to write something like that on my own.
Post by: SirAaronIII on January 24, 2012, 06:16:54 pm
Post by: nukularpower on January 24, 2012, 10:26:46 pm
You guys are giving me too much credit, I have absolutely no idea how to go about even starting to create something like that. Unless there's some template for that program that I'm missing, I don't have the ability to write something like that on my own.
Eh, I don't think it's that hard.. just have to know how to compile it. Meph can probably send the source, pretty sure I saw him post that he had it (it's the source from the Lazy Newb Pack afaik)
Post by: Pan on January 25, 2012, 09:53:52 am
Narhiril, are you still considering the spring propelled dagger-in-weapon idea?
Also, what experimental weapons can and cannot be used? The last time I made that masterful mithril scythe, it went to waste by being too big for dwarves to carry. I'm just wondering what other weapons will be forced to be loaded into a lowly weapon trap instead of cutting swathes through a horde of trolls in the hands of a hadrine and adamantine clad dwarven juggernaut.
Post by: narhiril on January 25, 2012, 10:21:01 am
Bog troll thief one shotted a recruit. Four Nephilim guards jump him a second later and cut him to pieces. Dual goblin ambushes then appear and proceed to get ripped to shreds by the Nephilim. No problem here!
Narhiril, are you still considering the spring propelled dagger-in-weapon idea?
Also, what experimental weapons can and cannot be used? The last time I made that masterful mithril scythe, it went to waste by being too big for dwarves to carry. I'm just wondering what other weapons will be forced to be loaded into a lowly weapon trap instead of cutting swathes through a horde of trolls in the hands of a hadrine and adamantine clad dwarven juggernaut.
I went ahead and checked, and all of them can be used except for the scythe, which needs an enormous dwarf to wield. I'm going to lower that value for the new release, as I don't really recall what purpose I had in mind when I did that for the scythe. It's being lowered to 45000. If you want to use the masterwork one you made, you can probably dfworldtinker it without much trouble.
"Sidearms," as I like to call them, are something I have not quite worked through the logistics of. It will probably involve me putting a ranged, maxvel, and shoot_force token onto every single melee weapon in the game, then allowing you to unlock throwing knives or spring-loaded projectiles for use with any weapon. I'll need to test that to make sure it works right, but I think it should. I'm not going to force it into 0.15a, as it would delay an otherwise very soon release, but I wouldn't rule it out for 0.15b or 0.15c.
Actually, that gave me a curious idea. Can you give a weapon multiple ranged tokens to allow it to use multiple classes of ammunition? If so, I think that will be another thing worth dropping into the tech tree in the future.
Spoiler: Really long-term hint dropping time (click to show/hide)
Post by: trees on January 25, 2012, 03:34:59 pm
Actually, that gave me a curious idea. Can you give a weapon multiple ranged tokens to allow it to use multiple classes of ammunition? If so, I think that will be another thing worth dropping into the tech tree in the future.
I assume you mean ranged token as in [RANGED:CROSSBOW:BOLT] for weapons / [CLASS:BOLT] for ammo? I recall hearing someone in the modding workshop a while ago say that a weapon can have up to three different ones before acting strangely.
Nothing will go wrong if you give more than one kind of ammunition the same class, though, and that's probably a much easier way to implement it.
Post by: narhiril on January 25, 2012, 06:22:23 pm
Actually, that gave me a curious idea. Can you give a weapon multiple ranged tokens to allow it to use multiple classes of ammunition? If so, I think that will be another thing worth dropping into the tech tree in the future.
I assume you mean ranged token as in [RANGED:CROSSBOW:BOLT] for weapons / [CLASS:BOLT] for ammo? I recall hearing someone in the modding workshop a while ago say that a weapon can have up to three different ones before acting strangely.
Nothing will go wrong if you give more than one kind of ammunition the same class, though, and that's probably a much easier way to implement it.
What I meant was giving a ranged weapon the ability to fire both bolts AND arrows... Thanks for the tip, though, I'll be testing it out.
Post by: Teach on January 25, 2012, 11:27:54 pm
Post by: Pan on January 27, 2012, 10:33:13 am
Spoiler: Really long-term hint dropping time (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: narhiril on January 27, 2012, 01:34:28 pm
Spoiler: Really long-term hint dropping time (click to show/hide)Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Pan on January 27, 2012, 10:38:22 pm
Post by: TehNoob on January 29, 2012, 08:19:39 am
I'm pretty sure corpses and body parts cannot be included in reactions like these? Like how autopsy was supposed to use actual corpses but was scrapped cuz that's not possible.
Post by: narhiril on January 29, 2012, 02:54:45 pm
Would the wheelbarrows in the machine shop be able to load corpses and bodyparts? Because that would be useful to quickly clear an area of dead bodies and such.
I'm anticipating problems here because of how the game handles corpse materials. The wheelbarrow reactions work by destroying the item and then creating an identical copy inside of the wheelbarrow. I doubt the game would let me create corpse pieces from a reaction - this has caused crashes before when I tried it.
Lustrum, I find, is a rather... limited material. On description they are some sort of great fuel, but practical terms you never get that many lustrum in your forts as the veins are just not enough to provide a decent amount in the long term, even if you do bother yourself to mine the veins of this limited and rarely used material.
In case you haven't tried out the test version, lustrum plays a larger role in tier three tech advances as a power source for some of the new devices. I don't know about you, but I find lustrum extremely useful - without any magma, a single vein of lustrum provides literally hundreds of refined coal. I had a fort that was able to deck out an entire army in damascus steel using the lustrum veins found in the caverns, which was actually a lot easier than pumping magma all the way up to the forges.
Are you playing with recommended mineral distribution settings? That makes a BIG difference.
Also, for anyone who is curious, LFR will be incorporating this (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=99864.0) in the next release.
Post by: Pan on January 30, 2012, 07:03:19 am
Just a thought, but do you think Nephilim soldiers will look less like barbie dolls if they wear roman styled helmets in their art?
Post by: narhiril on January 30, 2012, 10:06:39 am
Will the executive be on a separate download? Cuz I play, sadly, on a Mac.
Just a thought, but do you think Nephilim soldiers will look less like barbie dolls if they wear roman styled helmets in their art?
The new .exe will only affect the pre-installed version, which is also the SDL version. I'm honestly unfamiliar with DF on Macs, so if this is causing any problems that I'm not thinking of, please let me know.
... And yeah, I can do that. I can't promise they'll be good, but I'll do it. They need some more graphics if they're ever going to be playable, anyway.
Post by: Pan on January 30, 2012, 10:45:58 am
I had a fort that was able to deck out an entire army in damascus steel using the lustrum veins found in the caverns, which was actually a lot easier than pumping magma all the way up to the forges.
Hmm, although really, a stairwell into the depths and making magma forges above the magma sea is pretty easy and can be set up in the first year.
So I hear the next version is up tomorrow or sometime after that? What's the list of changes here? :D
Post by: narhiril on January 30, 2012, 11:21:43 am
I had a fort that was able to deck out an entire army in damascus steel using the lustrum veins found in the caverns, which was actually a lot easier than pumping magma all the way up to the forges.
Hmm, although really, a stairwell into the depths and making magma forges above the magma sea is pretty easy and can be set up in the first year.
So I hear the next version is up tomorrow or sometime after that? What's the list of changes here? :D
Tomorrow or possibly Wednesday, I'm not sure how much work I'll have for school (I'll know later today).
Ah, the list of changes... I thought you'd never ask. ;)
This is one of the biggest updates LFR has gotten in a long time, so I'm going to embellish it and proclaim its glory to the fullest. Bear with me.
THE CHANGELOG - V0.15A
MINOR CHANGES AND BALANCE TWEAKS
-Fixed a typo in the description for megalania.
-Added a new easter egg creature (this thing is vicious, just warning you guys, but you'll have to go a bit out of the way to find it).
-Fixed an issue with incubi that was causing them to be much rarer than intended.
-Fixed a bug related to vines of xanadu returning a bugged (null) mill product
-Vines of xanadu will now produce "heavenly seasoning" when milled, which carries a material value of 20.
-Nephilim will now use heraldic shields in addition to their previous two types (this change is mostly cosmetic).
-Added the ability to craft hadrine reactive shields (same prerequisites as other hadrine pieces).
-Alchemical experiments now have a small (5%) chance of producing a lustrum rock.
-Added savant castes for glassmakers.
-Zinger anatomy has been vastly simplified.
-Added corrosive zingers.
-Meowkin adult size has been slightly increased.
-Removed a redundant extra "document efficient casting procedure" reaction.
-A certain type of pigeon is now substantially less common, and will use a unique graphic.
-Stock whips have been beaten with the nerf bat of justice and will no longer offer ridiculous armor penetration, which didn't make any sense anyway.
-The trash compactor can now be used to remove slabs of accreditation - unlike documentation, this reaction uses no skill and creates no product, it is purely for disposal of unwanted slabs once things are unlocked.
-Creatures have had their background colors removed, which should make the unit screen a bit easier to look at.
-Plants in ASCII version have had background colors removed.
-Minerals and metals in ASCII version have had their background colors removed.
-Artwork for the experimental materials workshop, shrine of nature, shrine of victory, shrine of prosperity, mechanical obstacle course, medical training dummy, and weapons concept labs has been revised.
-Nephilim will no longer send caravans or diplomats during the spring.
DOCUMENTATION CHANGES
-Added a good amount of documentation for the tech and ritual trees, found in the lfr manual and lore folder.
-The tech tree and ritual tree now have their own dedicated manuals and/or reference sheets.
-Tier three of the tech tree has a guide on how to fully utilize the new features. Speak of the devil...
MAJOR ADDITIONS
-Tier three of the tech tree has been implemented. The full changelog for this is so enormous that it would fill most of the screen, so I'll try to paraphrase.
-Added buildings: the advanced alchemy lab, the prototype workbench, the scientific library, the exotic cheesery.
-Weapons upgrades - the dwarves can perform research at the advanced alchemy lab to unlock upgrades to the crossbow and a new weapon entirely.
-Weapon upgrades can create formidable hybrid weapons, which are capable of great power in both ranged and melee combat.
-The magnetic dart launcher can be researched, unlocked, and then upgraded alongside the crossbow.
-Ammo for the magnetic dart launcher can be manufactured from certain metals in stacks of 60.
-Advanced alchemy experiments - the bigger, meaner cousin of the alchemical experiments of old. New risks, new rewards.
-Advanced transmutation experiments, to much more reliably grant access to rare plants.
-Added the ability to manufacture a potent knockout gas from voracious maws at the advanced alchemy lab.
-New methods for creating cheese.
-In case you missed any tier two advances on the way to tier three, the scientific library can unlock them for you.
-New easter eggs.
--
That's the gist of it. This version has been more heavily tested than most previous numerical upgrades, so I expect it to work and work well. At least, it better. I've been play testing it for a week or so now, only needing a few minor tweaks here and there (like advanced alchemical experiments, which I gutted and re-wrote about 5 times).
MINOR CHANGES AND BALANCE TWEAKS
-Fixed a typo in the description for megalania.
-Added a new easter egg creature (this thing is vicious, just warning you guys, but you'll have to go a bit out of the way to find it).
-Fixed an issue with incubi that was causing them to be much rarer than intended.
-Fixed a bug related to vines of xanadu returning a bugged (null) mill product
-Vines of xanadu will now produce "heavenly seasoning" when milled, which carries a material value of 20.
-Nephilim will now use heraldic shields in addition to their previous two types (this change is mostly cosmetic).
-Added the ability to craft hadrine reactive shields (same prerequisites as other hadrine pieces).
-Alchemical experiments now have a small (5%) chance of producing a lustrum rock.
-Added savant castes for glassmakers.
-Zinger anatomy has been vastly simplified.
-Added corrosive zingers.
-Meowkin adult size has been slightly increased.
-Removed a redundant extra "document efficient casting procedure" reaction.
-A certain type of pigeon is now substantially less common, and will use a unique graphic.
-Stock whips have been beaten with the nerf bat of justice and will no longer offer ridiculous armor penetration, which didn't make any sense anyway.
-The trash compactor can now be used to remove slabs of accreditation - unlike documentation, this reaction uses no skill and creates no product, it is purely for disposal of unwanted slabs once things are unlocked.
-Creatures have had their background colors removed, which should make the unit screen a bit easier to look at.
-Plants in ASCII version have had background colors removed.
-Minerals and metals in ASCII version have had their background colors removed.
-Artwork for the experimental materials workshop, shrine of nature, shrine of victory, shrine of prosperity, mechanical obstacle course, medical training dummy, and weapons concept labs has been revised.
-Nephilim will no longer send caravans or diplomats during the spring.
DOCUMENTATION CHANGES
-Added a good amount of documentation for the tech and ritual trees, found in the lfr manual and lore folder.
-The tech tree and ritual tree now have their own dedicated manuals and/or reference sheets.
-Tier three of the tech tree has a guide on how to fully utilize the new features. Speak of the devil...
MAJOR ADDITIONS
-Tier three of the tech tree has been implemented. The full changelog for this is so enormous that it would fill most of the screen, so I'll try to paraphrase.
-Added buildings: the advanced alchemy lab, the prototype workbench, the scientific library, the exotic cheesery.
-Weapons upgrades - the dwarves can perform research at the advanced alchemy lab to unlock upgrades to the crossbow and a new weapon entirely.
-Weapon upgrades can create formidable hybrid weapons, which are capable of great power in both ranged and melee combat.
-The magnetic dart launcher can be researched, unlocked, and then upgraded alongside the crossbow.
-Ammo for the magnetic dart launcher can be manufactured from certain metals in stacks of 60.
-Advanced alchemy experiments - the bigger, meaner cousin of the alchemical experiments of old. New risks, new rewards.
-Advanced transmutation experiments, to much more reliably grant access to rare plants.
-Added the ability to manufacture a potent knockout gas from voracious maws at the advanced alchemy lab.
-New methods for creating cheese.
-In case you missed any tier two advances on the way to tier three, the scientific library can unlock them for you.
-New easter eggs.
--
That's the gist of it. This version has been more heavily tested than most previous numerical upgrades, so I expect it to work and work well. At least, it better. I've been play testing it for a week or so now, only needing a few minor tweaks here and there (like advanced alchemical experiments, which I gutted and re-wrote about 5 times).
Post by: nukularpower on January 30, 2012, 11:40:55 am
Post by: Pan on January 30, 2012, 11:49:39 am
which I gutted and re-wrote about 5 times
I always wondered how mod authors can be so... not lazy (for lack of a better word) about these things. If I was a modder, I'd procrastinate these less fun parts of modding till my mod dies. What your secret? :D
Post by: narhiril on January 30, 2012, 12:36:22 pm
I play tested the test fortress you uploaded in my spare time, and noticed huge amounts of lag. Also, dwarves constantly attempt to 'Clean Self' and leave contaminants of blood near all the murky pools. If this isn't happening to you, Narhiril, then it's probably an isolated case. It doesn't seem like an LFR thing, but it's strange that it would occur on the test forts and not my old worlds.which I gutted and re-wrote about 5 times
I always wondered how mod authors can be so... not lazy (for lack of a better word) about these things. If I was a modder, I'd procrastinate these less fun parts of modding till my mod dies. What your secret? :D
My secret is that I actually play my own mod, and if something isn't quite balanced, I like to think that I notice it just as much as anyone else would. Old iterations for that reaction were reagent-heavy and had mediocre chances at products, which isn't much incentive to use them, so I revised them a few times to get something more workable.
I haven't been able to reproduce that particular issue. My test fortress (using the same file uploaded) gets a pretty steady 55fps with 175+ dwarves, which is about what I got with 0.14e and the SC plugin.
Post by: narhiril on January 30, 2012, 07:45:52 pm
...and I think a release is a decent enough reason for a double post, no?
0.15a is up and running. As usual, report any issues or direct any comments here... yada yada, have fun guys.
Post by: astianax on January 30, 2012, 08:16:05 pm
joy of joys
i'ma spend the rest of today singing the 'happy happy, joy joy' song thanks to you, nar. reading your stuff and toady's has been getting me itchy for all the upcoming stuff...so, this is absolutely perfect
Post by: SirAaronIII on January 30, 2012, 08:16:48 pm
Post by: Atlan on January 30, 2012, 09:19:24 pm
-
(http://i.imgur.com/2t20v.png)
-
(http://i.imgur.com/ugNoT.png)
-
Nonetheless, I look forward to having tamed war monstrosities to fight off the minotaur and cyclope civilizations. And the forgotten beast civilization, apparently.
Post by: narhiril on January 30, 2012, 09:25:44 pm
Found the culprits. Delete the duplicates of item_food_narhiril.txt, creature_servant.txt, and building_y_temple_lfr.txt. I'll clean that up and get a new upload going asap.
Post by: narhiril on January 30, 2012, 09:39:40 pm
I tried to clean that up once and for all in 0.15a, but I seem to have missed a few, and that is causing the duplicate errors.
If you're comfortable deleting the duplicates yourself, that will fix the problem. If not, I'm uploading a pair of new zips to replace the broken ones.
EDIT: Should be good to go now.
Post by: Atlan on January 30, 2012, 09:44:19 pm
Post by: narhiril on January 30, 2012, 09:51:18 pm
Thank you kindly. Extremely fun mod, by the way.
I appreciate that.
Note that if you just downloaded the raw-only to fix the issue, it won't overwrite the duplicates. You'll either need a fresh copy or to go in and delete them yourself (df/raw/objects).
Post by: simonthedwarf on January 30, 2012, 10:21:58 pm
Really exciting mod.
Next version I would suggest:
- New way of attaining gypser plastum powder
- Make it slightly easier to get precision tools or advanced mechanics, I'm reaching 100 dwarves and I havent found it :(
Post by: Pan on January 31, 2012, 01:14:59 am
My comment so far:
Really exciting mod.
Next version I would suggest:
- New way of attaining gypser plastum powder
- Make it slightly easier to get precision tools or advanced mechanics, I'm reaching 100 dwarves and I havent found it :(
Trade orichalcum from the dwarf caravan. Otherwise set mineral density to 'high'.
Post by: nukularpower on January 31, 2012, 01:44:48 am
Post by: astianax on February 01, 2012, 12:01:16 am
anyway, it seems everyone else who's commented so far either plays with the graphics pack or doesn't check their error logs (mind you, i mostly check mine 'cause i wedge other things in with your stuff and don't wanna break anything)
thanks to reading the log, though, i noticed that you'd updated both inorganic_z_stone_mineral_enlightenment_lfr and inorganic_zinger_death_blasts in the graphics version, but not the ascii version. easy fix for those who have it already, just put the ironhand ones into the ascii, but figured i'd point it out here.
and now, off to have fun with the new zingers, new ways of exploding my dwarves, and, most important of all, new cheese!
Post by: Pan on February 01, 2012, 01:21:22 am
Post by: narhiril on February 01, 2012, 01:31:05 am
took me a full 24 hours after downloading to actually start *playing* it, yay things coming up
anyway, it seems everyone else who's commented so far either plays with the graphics pack or doesn't check their error logs (mind you, i mostly check mine 'cause i wedge other things in with your stuff and don't wanna break anything)
thanks to reading the log, though, i noticed that you'd updated both inorganic_z_stone_mineral_enlightenment_lfr and inorganic_zinger_death_blasts in the graphics version, but not the ascii version. easy fix for those who have it already, just put the ironhand ones into the ascii, but figured i'd point it out here.
and now, off to have fun with the new zingers, new ways of exploding my dwarves, and, most important of all, new cheese!
Good catch, fixed for future downloads.
What would corrosive zingers do?
They cause some pain and swelling with their toxic fluids. Currently, they might be a little bit underpowered, and are subject to some rebalancing down the road.
Post by: simonthedwarf on February 01, 2012, 07:30:37 pm
My comment so far:
Really exciting mod.
Next version I would suggest:
- New way of attaining gypser plastum powder
- Make it slightly easier to get precision tools or advanced mechanics, I'm reaching 100 dwarves and I havent found it :(
Trade orichalcum from the dwarf caravan. Otherwise set mineral density to 'high'.
My last caravan didnt have it. Is this something I must request?
Post by: Pan on February 01, 2012, 08:43:49 pm
My comment so far:
Really exciting mod.
Next version I would suggest:
- New way of attaining gypser plastum powder
- Make it slightly easier to get precision tools or advanced mechanics, I'm reaching 100 dwarves and I havent found it :(
Trade orichalcum from the dwarf caravan. Otherwise set mineral density to 'high'.
My last caravan didnt have it. Is this something I must request?
Yep. Orichalcum ore or bars. Caravan should have either.
Post by: simonthedwarf on February 01, 2012, 11:47:36 pm
Post by: nukularpower on February 02, 2012, 12:46:29 am
I'm pretty excited, my new fort has an underground castle, according to DFhack... Never actually saw one before. This should be fun!
Post by: astianax on February 02, 2012, 02:25:39 am
and, simonthedwarf, sometimes your home civ won't have orichalcum. it's rare, but i've seen it once or twice. the humans might have it, though. check with them. there's also a handful of other ways of getting precision tools, now. a few critters in the caverns may drop stuff to reverse-engineer or one of the new rituals will, rarely, create one. so, the option's still there for ya, just a matter of things cooperating
Post by: Dohon on February 02, 2012, 06:12:55 am
[Unreal Tournament Announcer Voice]Godlike.[/Unreal Tournament Announcer Voice]
Less awesome is my lack of free time, but still, I can read through the manual at least! Outstanding job once again, narhiril.
I did found one problem in the manual. In the section where you explain how to add creature_standard changes, I see that a lot of the savants have POPRATIO 1, yet the Glass savants have POPRATIO 10. I checked the regular raws and there all the savants have POPRATIO 10. Just wanna give a headsup. :)
Post by: narhiril on February 02, 2012, 02:35:32 pm
New version?
[Unreal Tournament Announcer Voice]Godlike.[/Unreal Tournament Announcer Voice]
Less awesome is my lack of free time, but still, I can read through the manual at least! Outstanding job once again, narhiril.
I did found one problem in the manual. In the section where you explain how to add creature_standard changes, I see that a lot of the savants have POPRATIO 1, yet the Glass savants have POPRATIO 10. I checked the regular raws and there all the savants have POPRATIO 10. Just wanna give a headsup. :)
I simply multiplied all the POPRATIO tags by 10 at some point, to let me better control the appearance of an easter egg caste or two. I apologize that the manual does not reflect this, and I will get it fixed for the next release. Regular dwarves should be 1000, savants should be 10, and the two easter egg castes should be 5 and 1.
found a minor typo in the pantheon file in the lore folder. about the 'nehpilim' denouncing voruk
This kind of thing might seem trivial, but I do appreciate these reports and do my best to fix them.
Post by: nukularpower on February 02, 2012, 03:36:05 pm
Post by: billybobfred on February 02, 2012, 03:39:34 pm
Alternately, if it's safe to update an ongoing save, I can do that instead.
Post by: narhiril on February 02, 2012, 03:56:41 pm
I don't suppose you have the .14e raws lying around anywhere? I'm joining Flickeredbrightness (http://"http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=98858.0") and want to switch back to ASCII.
Alternately, if it's safe to update an ongoing save, I can do that instead.
It's not, so here (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=5436) you go. Luckily, I archive these things. :)
Just curious, haven't actually managed to build any dart launchers yet, but what is different about them than normal xboxs? Are they just stronger?
They're different. The ammunition is smaller, and their upgrades diverge from the crossbow's upgrades. The upgraded dart launcher ends up using the sword skill for its bayonet, while the crossbows use the spear skill. Magnetic darts are also different - they're light and you can produce them in stacks of 60, meaning that your dwarves can carry a lot more of them. The downside is, you need a ferromagnetic metal to make them, so you can't pump out wooden ones for training because wooden magnets don't work. ;)
A fully upgraded crossbow does have a bit more force and velocity than a fully upgraded dart launcher, but the dart launcher can pack more ammo and can play a slightly different role in melee combat. That's the real difference. That and a tungsten bar + an iron bar = 60 tiny needles of death.
I'm rather happy with how the dart launcher turned out.
Spoiler: Concept. (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Oh, and this is what I get for using a Latin language file. (click to show/hide)
Post by: Imp on February 02, 2012, 04:13:39 pm
I don't suppose you have the .14e raws lying around anywhere? I'm joining Flickeredbrightness (http://"http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=98858.0") and want to switch back to ASCII.
Alternately, if it's safe to update an ongoing save, I can do that instead.
It's not, so here (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=5436) you go. Luckily, I archive these things. :)
On behalf of Flickeredbrightness, thank you ever so much!
Post by: nukularpower on February 02, 2012, 06:40:29 pm
Post by: simonthedwarf on February 02, 2012, 07:51:51 pm
Post by: narhiril on February 02, 2012, 08:26:21 pm
My dwarfs never ask me what I want next season. I am unable to get Orichaleum. Or whatever it was called. Do I need to re-fort?
Does the outpost liaison show up with the caravan? If not, it means there isn't one, which could mean that your civilization's nobility might be in disarray. This has happened to me before and has nothing to do with LFR. Unfortunately, I think the best solution would be to start again either in a new world or with a different parent civ.
Post by: darkflagrance on February 03, 2012, 03:03:49 am
Post by: simonthedwarf on February 03, 2012, 11:08:04 am
Post by: narhiril on February 03, 2012, 11:26:52 am
Hello again. Liason finaly asked me if I needed somethiong, following my 2nd elevation. Orichaleum is a STONE right? I could NOT find it on the list. What are my alternatives?
It's a metal. The ore is called "native orichalcum."
Post by: Teach on February 03, 2012, 11:03:06 pm
The weapon from the ritual of wealth is being put to good use however, somehow I lucked out and got both of those on my first reaction at the altar. 8)
Post by: Jilladilla on February 03, 2012, 11:40:25 pm
I cannot use the weapon (the bladed one) from the greater ritual of power, what do?i believe that weapon is a trap component
The weapon from the ritual of wealth is being put to good use however, somehow I lucked out and got both of those on my first reaction at the altar. 8)
Post by: nukularpower on February 04, 2012, 03:00:53 am
But what is tickling my brain about it are the Lizardmen. They are low-tech enemies, but I never see them until very late. They show up with their crappy gear usually long after all my dwarves are using voidshard weapons, apparently just to paint my lawn red. It might be neat to adjust them to show up possibly even before goblins (I'm not sure, but they seem weaker than goblins to me, at least.)
Maybe it's just my worlds, dunno.. but like I said, I usually never even see a lizardman thief until very late. Maybe just make them siegers instead of thief-senders?
Anyways, like I said, just a thought. Having fun with the new version so far!
Post by: Imp on February 04, 2012, 03:48:11 am
Thank you again for all the awesome joy you've added to my play and stories!
Post by: Pan on February 04, 2012, 03:53:36 am
They are weaker than goblins. They use blowguns as ranged weapons. Blowguns suck.
Post by: narhiril on February 04, 2012, 04:31:26 am
Tribes of uncivilized lizardmen, dressed in rags, invading before the goblins and trolls, then the voidwalkers does sound sensible. Nukepower has a point - making them appear really early like Genesis' werewolves, Zephyrs of Civilization Forge or the dark stranglers of Fortress Defense.
They are weaker than goblins. They use blowguns as ranged weapons. Blowguns suck.
Consider it done. Lizardmen will now (0.15b) siege when your population hits 20. They're getting the [FLEEQUICK] token so that this change isn't completely overwhelming. If they need any more tweaks after a test, I'll post information about them.
This mod makes me smile so often when I play it! I finally messed around with the Weapons concept laboratory, and the first weapon it gave me I just had to check the raws for. Oh, to get one that you commented no one would probably ever see! No matter how often others surely have seen it before, seeing it tonight filled me with glee.
Thank you again for all the awesome joy you've added to my play and stories!
Comments like this make it all worth it.
Post by: Pan on February 04, 2012, 06:51:36 am
Consider it done. Lizardmen will now (0.15b) siege when your population hits 20. They're getting the [FLEEQUICK] token so that this change isn't completely overwhelming. If they need any more tweaks after a test, I'll post information about them.
Ah, great. Early attacks always make things more interesting, and other than the free loot, it gives us a reason to use those early weapon getting reactions in the ritual tech tree.
I'm currently starting a new fort. Where in the raws shall I edit (and with what) to make the lizardmen attack when my population hits 20?
Post by: simonthedwarf on February 04, 2012, 07:25:58 am
also am I supposed to use voidshard equipment somehow? by just equipping it, am i supposed to melt??
Post by: Pan on February 04, 2012, 08:21:15 am
guess i will download the new version and gen a new fort, maybe this time i'll get the critical orchaleum ore :/
also am I supposed to use voidshard equipment somehow? by just equipping it, am i supposed to melt??
Well I keep the reavers, twisted swords and such since they are able to perform very powerful attacks. Such as how the reavers can 'viciously hack', which is rather powerful. (technically, it's the weapons velocity and penetration etc that decides this. And I believe reavers are supposedly better in such a way than traditional dwarven axes)
Narhiril, that raises another thought. Usually, I abandon traditional dwarven weapons for the powerful voidwalker weapons. This makes me feel like an old sellout to my race. Maybe we could advance the tech tree to create more powerful melee weapons that are even better than the voidwalker's reavers, twisted swords, and such? Or shields with better coverage but are lighter? After all, the tech tree is for one to advance and defeat one's enemies, no? Maybe make a powerful bashing weapon. The iovium war hammers sometimes just don't cut it, with blunt weapons being so useless at times. My squads of hammerdwarves are always the underdogs.
Post by: simonthedwarf on February 04, 2012, 09:12:59 am
Post by: Pan on February 04, 2012, 09:40:06 am
Sorry for spamming this thread, but how can I get precision tools or adv. mechanisms other than Orchaiuelum?
Just need your first precision tool made of orihalcum (from the alchemy lab). Then, with that first advanced precision tool kit you build an advanced mechanics workshop. From then on, the advanced mechanics store can create adv mechanisms and tool kits with other materials.
Post by: simonthedwarf on February 04, 2012, 09:41:44 am
losin the fort? In the raws etc? Greatly appreciated
Post by: simonthedwarf on February 04, 2012, 09:42:12 am
A grizzly bear has guzzled some vodka?
Post by: Pan on February 04, 2012, 09:50:13 am
What ?
A grizzly bear has guzzled some vodka?
This is normal.
Good sir, can you suggest a workaround when worldgen did no make any orihalcum? Is there a way to modify this without
losin the fort? In the raws etc? Greatly appreciated
.. and this shouldn't happen. It never happened for me before. The dwarves always have it for me. And I have heard that the nephilim and humans might bring them too. Make sure you set mineral density to 100 in future, and this shouldn't happen. If it still does, freak occurance.
Post by: simonthedwarf on February 04, 2012, 09:51:46 am
Post by: SirAaronIII on February 04, 2012, 12:34:41 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: simonthedwarf on February 04, 2012, 12:35:15 pm
Post by: nukularpower on February 04, 2012, 01:34:46 pm
This mod makes me smile so often when I play it! I finally messed around with the Weapons concept laboratory, and the first weapon it gave me I just had to check the raws for. Oh, to get one that you commented no one would probably ever see! No matter how often others surely have seen it before, seeing it tonight filled me with glee.
Thank you again for all the awesome joy you've added to my play and stories!
Ha, I got one of those too.. as an artifact!
Re Lizards: Glad to see you like the idea! I'm not sure what other weapons they use (if they use weapons) since I usually just mass dump them after they die in the current version, but if they are coming at 20, might be a good idea to restrict them to blowguns and staffs and wrestlers and such...
Or maybe not.
Anyways, yay!
Post by: Teach on February 04, 2012, 03:14:32 pm
Post by: Pan on February 04, 2012, 07:36:35 pm
Blowguns can be scary when the darts are coated with GCS venom.
Oh dear god, but they aren't... are they?
Post by: simonthedwarf on February 04, 2012, 09:58:41 pm
Post by: smakemupagus on February 04, 2012, 10:31:14 pm
Any secret to finding damascus sentinels?
If you're looking for orichalum, you might be able to order some from the Mountainhome liason, if you don't consider that exploity
edit. Sorry, missed the earlier discussion, i see you aren't getting a liason :(
Post by: simonthedwarf on February 04, 2012, 10:47:34 pm
Based on what's been described the Damscus sentinels are supposed to show up in special chambers underground. I've genned three worlds so far and 4 different embarks, but no sign of any underground buildings or damascus sentinels.
Post by: Putnam on February 04, 2012, 10:47:59 pm
[BIOME:SUBTERRANEAN_CHASM]
[UNDERGROUND_DEPTH:3:3]
Post by: simonthedwarf on February 04, 2012, 10:55:16 pm
Post by: Meph on February 04, 2012, 11:00:16 pm
Post by: Pokon on February 04, 2012, 11:23:41 pm
What ?
A grizzly bear has guzzled some vodka?
Добро пожаловать в Россию, карлик.
Post by: globul on February 05, 2012, 12:06:00 am
It's my first message here, just to say I really enjoy this mod, and I am looking forward playing v0.15. Here are two nice artefacts that my dorfs built in my current fort:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
A few remarks on the mod: I noticed prismatic essence has a value of 15, whereas dimple and emerald dye have value of 20 (I think). Should prismatic essence be the highest value dye?
Also, courage oak seems to be more valuable than common woods by several orders of magnitude. As a consequence, entire caravans can be bought from the products of a certain ritual
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Anyways, thanks for your mod!
Post by: narhiril on February 05, 2012, 01:50:11 am
Consider it done. Lizardmen will now (0.15b) siege when your population hits 20. They're getting the [FLEEQUICK] token so that this change isn't completely overwhelming. If they need any more tweaks after a test, I'll post information about them.
Ah, great. Early attacks always make things more interesting, and other than the free loot, it gives us a reason to use those early weapon getting reactions in the ritual tech tree.
I'm currently starting a new fort. Where in the raws shall I edit (and with what) to make the lizardmen attack when my population hits 20?
entity_lizardmen
[PROGRESS_TRIGGER_POPULATION:1]
[PROGRESS_TRIGGER_PRODUCTION:2]
[PROGRESS_TRIGGER_TRADE:1]
[PROGRESS_TRIGGER_POP_SIEGE:1]
[PROGRESS_TRIGGER_PROD_SIEGE:1]
[PROGRESS_TRIGGER_TRADE_SIEGE:1]
Hi,
It's my first message here, just to say I really enjoy this mod, and I am looking forward playing v0.15. Here are two nice artefacts that my dorfs built in my current fort:andSpoiler (click to show/hide)Spoiler (click to show/hide)
A few remarks on the mod: I noticed prismatic essence has a value of 15, whereas dimple and emerald dye have value of 20 (I think). Should prismatic essence be the highest value dye?
Also, courage oak seems to be more valuable than common woods by several orders of magnitude. As a consequence, entire caravans can be bought from the products of a certain ritualIf this product were made out of widow's tears, it would make it more useful, because of increased density, and less valuable at the same time. Well... Maybe it would make it too powerful...Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Anyways, thanks for your mod!
Good catch here. Both of these are issues - material value for prismatic essence should be 35, and courage oak javelins will be replaced by widow's tear ones in the next version.
Post by: Imp on February 05, 2012, 02:37:26 am
Your mod is random enough to be used for some significant improv!
I so deeply want more of this sort of thing, on all different sorts of levels. Could you give us runes, knucklebones, or stick lengths to cast that 'create' the pattern of one or several images when used (like engraving, but without history details, simply the simpler images and patterns), that could perhaps be dismanted back into their original fortune telling form for future uses?
We can simply 'make up' what we see in the games we play and the stories we tell, but to have the game share in what is made up makes ever so much difference - my imagination soars with things like these, it is not unlike the effortlessness of a bird soaring across the sky on thermals, compared to that bird working so hard to fly on a breezeless day
Post by: TehNoob on February 05, 2012, 07:53:12 am
Greater ritual of knowledge - takes 10 cloth, can produce magma-safe barrels, bins, buckets, mechanisms, a recipe for cheese (very rarely), and precision tools (very rarely).
Post by: simonthedwarf on February 06, 2012, 01:43:59 am
Post by: Pan on February 06, 2012, 08:23:24 am
Narhiril, wouldn't it be interesting for engravers to engrave about the Gods? I believe this sort of things can be possible the same way you have the
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: simonthedwarf on February 06, 2012, 09:11:42 am
Post by: simonthedwarf on February 06, 2012, 09:19:24 am
Post by: Pan on February 06, 2012, 10:12:14 am
Post by: narhiril on February 06, 2012, 10:27:31 am
No idea about your predicament, simonthedwarf.
Narhiril, wouldn't it be interesting for engravers to engrave about the Gods? I believe this sort of things can be possible the same way you have theeaster egg.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
They already engrave images of minions of the Old Gods, but these tend to be rare as they depend heavily on preferences. The list of shapes for a dwarf to prefer is a hell of a lot shorter than the list of creatures, so nyan cats seem to pop up a lot more often. I can very easily add to this category, and symbols and images of Old Gods seem like a very appropriate idea.
You did not fix pets/tamable creatures in this mod? I captured a Giant Rat, and I have a dungeon keeper, the rat is in the cage but I can't select him for taming by the tame large animal job at the kennel.
I do my best not to touch stock raws with LFR for compatibility reasons. Removing the [PET_EXOTIC] tag and just putting in [PET] instead is a good fix for this problem, but I have not done this by default because I would rather allow users as many cross-compatible mod opportunities as possible.
I've solved most of them through modding myself, but I'd like to point out very solemnly that orichalum and a very low chance reaction product being crucial to 2nd advancement of tech tree and it being very random whether or not you find any damascus sentinels for the 3rd makes for extremely annoying gameplay. Your mod is great Nahir but you should make it a bit easier to advance. For instance I do not think it would be a bad idea for damascus sentinels to be sieging from the underground or be a little more frequent. Just my 5 wealth.
Following my own recommended mineral settings, I have NEVER had trouble finding orichalcum, even without a reveal hack or anything of the sort.
As for the second tier... the product you are looking for is either a 1% or 2% product of a documentation reaction, which I will admit, sounds VERY low, but you need to consider that while you are using training workshops, this reaction is basically free. As few as two training workshops - a sparring partner and a morgue are both very easy to get up and running for extended periods of time - can run one documentation reaction on repeat indefinitely. That 1% or 2% chance translates to a few products per year if you're doing hundreds of documentation reactions - all of which can be done completely input-free once it's set up.
I believe there is some confusion here regarding the third tier - damascus sentinels are NOT required to advance the tech tree at ANY stage. Killing a damascus sentinel is a method of obtaining the precision tool kit you need for the first tier, which can ALSO be obtained by finding orichalcum or getting it from a greater ritual of knowledge.
The third tier of the tech tree is unlocked with a rainbow diamond, which will pop up often if you're making hadrine (25% per reaction) or - if you happen to be breeding carbuncles religiously - you may get a nice little surprise.
anyone got some pointers on how I can change the prayer for shelter reaction to add more wood, more frequently?
reaction_ritual_t1
[REACTION:SAC_BASE_ONE]
[NAME:perform the lesser ritual of shelter]
[BUILDING:ALTAR_LFR:CUSTOM_S]
[REAGENT:A:5:PLANT:NONE:NONE:NONE]
[PRODUCT:50:1:SHIELD:ITEM_SHIELD_ASPIS:METAL:TIN]
[PRODUCT:2:1:HELM:ITEM_HELM_HELM:INORGANIC:MINOR_METAL_OF_VISTHEL]
[PRODUCT:10:1:WOOD:NONE:PLANT_MAT:WIDOW_TEAR:WOOD]
[PRODUCT:10:1:WOOD:NONE:PLANT_MAT:OAK_COURAGE:WOOD]
[PRODUCT:5:1:ROUGH:NONE:INORGANIC:RUBY]
[PRODUCT:12:1:BOULDER:NONE:INORGANIC:CURSE_GENERIC]
[SKILL:CONCENTRATION]
The bold number is percent chance.
For some reason, this version of LFR, I keep getting kobold blood tracked all over the damn place. It never happened in the previous version. Dwarves constantly going to 'Clean Self'. Anyone got any idea why this keeps happening?
Not a clue, and I haven't been able to reproduce it. Check your d_init file and make sure you have
[WALKING_SPREADS_SPATTER_DWF:NO]
If that isn't the issue, I'll be happy to take a look at the save.
Post by: Pan on February 06, 2012, 10:40:40 am
Not a clue, and I haven't been able to reproduce it. Check your d_init file and make sure you have
[WALKING_SPREADS_SPATTER_DWF:NO]
If that isn't the issue, I'll be happy to take a look at the save.
Walking spread spatter is on 'No'. The dwarves are not tracking it everywhere, but are getting it on their feet all the time. When it rains and a drop hits a dwarf, the contaminant falls off and gets stepped on by other dwarves. Dwarves will get it on their feet. This causes them to try to clean it by cleaning themselves, dropping a pool of contaminant at the water source, and more dwarves track it on their feet, then clean themselves. I sort of don't mind, since bathing dwarves get a happy thought. But I'm afraid if there are battles, there will be some pretty big number of contaminants being tracked around and the FPS will be an issue.
Post by: narhiril on February 06, 2012, 11:32:03 am
Not a clue, and I haven't been able to reproduce it. Check your d_init file and make sure you have
[WALKING_SPREADS_SPATTER_DWF:NO]
If that isn't the issue, I'll be happy to take a look at the save.
Walking spread spatter is on 'No'. The dwarves are not tracking it everywhere, but are getting it on their feet all the time. When it rains and a drop hits a dwarf, the contaminant falls off and gets stepped on by other dwarves. Dwarves will get it on their feet. This causes them to try to clean it by cleaning themselves, dropping a pool of contaminant at the water source, and more dwarves track it on their feet, then clean themselves. I sort of don't mind, since bathing dwarves get a happy thought. But I'm afraid if there are battles, there will be some pretty big number of contaminants being tracked around and the FPS will be an issue.
Ah, I think I get it. You are using SC, correct? If so, the simpler clothing does not cover the feet, resulting in this happening until a dwarf cleans the contaminant itself off of the floor. This actually is not an in battles because your soldiers will be wearing foot armor, which means they probably won't ever have to clean their feet. If it becomes a crippling issue for either labor or FPS reasons, I'll do something about it, but right now I've not noticed any slowdown.
Post by: nukularpower on February 06, 2012, 12:13:44 pm
You did not fix pets/tamable creatures in this mod? I captured a Giant Rat, and I have a dungeon keeper, the rat is in the cage but I can't select him for taming by the tame large animal job at the kennel.
As far as this goes, its quite easy to install LFR into a Lazy Newb Pack install (just delete the vanilla raws from LNP and replace with LFR) and just disable exotic pets with the LNP option to do so, rather than manually editing the raws. Also has the advantage of easy soundsense, dwarf therapist, and dfhack this way. Still have to take out grazer tags manually though if you want pet elephants and such :/
But, just distributing it like that would be an option if you don't want to make/recompile a mod specific iteration of LNP, Narihil... or having an alternate download, or whatever.
Post by: billybobfred on February 06, 2012, 02:48:04 pm
2. Is a carbuncle what I think it is (http://puyonexus.net/wiki/Carbuncle)?
Post by: narhiril on February 06, 2012, 02:59:03 pm
1. I clicked the "other suggestion" button, and my suggestion is as follows: moar easter eggs plx
2. Is a carbuncle what I think it is (http://puyonexus.net/wiki/Carbuncle)?
Carbuncles make appearances in several fantasy universes, including (but not limited to) Puyo Puyo, Final Fantasy, and others. It is based on a mythical creature from Latin American folklore. The concept for carbuncles is pretty close to universal - small, furry creatures with large ears and gems on their foreheads. The concept for empyrean carbuncles is loosely based on this (http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20101230120538/pokemon/images/archive/8/88/20110115171731!Azelf.png) little guy.
Post by: billybobfred on February 06, 2012, 03:00:07 pm
... I just said "neato" again. What the heck?
Post by: billybobfred on February 06, 2012, 03:06:43 pm
and another manual issue:
Quote
...under [CREATURE:DRAGON], replace the line:
[BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:STANDARD_TEMPLATE]
...with the line:
[BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:ENHANCED_BONE_STANDARD_TEMPLATE]
STANDARD_TEMPLATE is not one of the vanilla body detail plans. I think you meant STANDARD_MATERIALS.
Post by: narhiril on February 06, 2012, 09:45:45 pm
OH here is another thing. The manual has awkward line breaks. Most lines have a few words wrapping when I maximize the window.
and another manual issue:Quote...under [CREATURE:DRAGON], replace the line:
[BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:STANDARD_TEMPLATE]
...with the line:
[BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:ENHANCED_BONE_STANDARD_TEMPLATE]
STANDARD_TEMPLATE is not one of the vanilla body detail plans. I think you meant STANDARD_MATERIALS.
I do. Thanks, fixed.
Post by: Fairin on February 07, 2012, 08:00:45 pm
i cant take him seriously anymore as he froths into a battlerage with a freaking poptart with cat appendages and head shooting rainbows.. of death...
Post by: Imp on February 07, 2012, 09:42:56 pm
Post by: Putnam on February 07, 2012, 10:43:36 pm
What will happen when new players (who need to download LoFR) join the existing forum games that use a previous version of your mod? Will older-version saves run the same in the newest version because the raws travel with the save, or will the older-version save start to function like a new-version save becausethe new version is running it?
Since the material emission (I.E Breath attacks, webs, fire breath of all kinds) stuff has been moved to the interaction framework, a new player would need to download 31.25.
Post by: Pan on February 07, 2012, 11:22:34 pm
i felt as if a part of my soul died when i got my commanders artifact breastplate made from adamantite with a picture of nyancat on it...
i cant take him seriously anymore as he froths into a battlerage with a freaking poptart with cat appendages and head shooting rainbows.. of death...
I can relate to that. Easter eggs are funny at first, but turning them off would be a nice option.
Also, pigeons constantly cause marksdwarves to shoot at them while being very aggressive and un-pigeon like. Perhaps their raws should be revised.
Post by: Imp on February 07, 2012, 11:41:49 pm
Since the material emission (I.E Breath attacks, webs, fire breath of all kinds) stuff has been moved to the interaction framework, a new player would need to download 31.25.
What about the modded save itself? Do modded saved games function the same, regardless of which (modded or not) version of 31.25 are being used to play them? I see that Narhiril's older versions of LoFR are not downloadable, and the new version is different from the last version - will the saved game continue to play 'the same' regardless of if it's being run through her previous version of LoFR or the new one?
Post by: Putnam on February 07, 2012, 11:54:05 pm
Since the material emission (I.E Breath attacks, webs, fire breath of all kinds) stuff has been moved to the interaction framework, a new player would need to download 31.25.
What about the modded save itself? Do modded saved games function the same, regardless of which (modded or not) version of 31.25 are being used to play them? I see that Narhiril's older versions of LoFR are not downloadable, and the new version is different from the last version - will the saved game continue to play 'the same' regardless of if it's being run through her previous version of LoFR or the new one?
The save will have problems just because of the new material emission--the next version won't be save compatible no matter the source.
When it comes to newer versions of the mod, there won't be a difference. Mods are usually raws only, and raws are saved with the region save.
(Note: graphics are also raws)
Post by: Imp on February 07, 2012, 11:58:42 pm
The save will have problems just because of the new material emission--the next version won't be save compatible no matter the source.
When it comes to newer versions of the mod, there won't be a difference. Mods are usually raws only, and raws are saved with the region save.
(Note: graphics are also raws)
Thanks hugely! I'd expected incompatibility of saves between versions of DF proper - but had no idea how saves would behave as play was continued across differently modded versions of the game. Ooh, does this mean that a player running a save created from a modded game wouldn't need to download the mod to run it - just drop the save in their vanilla DF and play on?
Post by: Putnam on February 08, 2012, 12:03:13 am
Also, you'll need to download any tilesets that go with the graphics.
forgot that VERY, VERY important step :P
Post by: Imp on February 08, 2012, 12:07:56 am
Yeah, you'd only need to drop in the save and CHANGE THE INIT FOR GRAPHICS
Also, you'll need to download any tilesets that go with the graphics.
forgot that VERY, VERY important step :P
How delightful! Thank you very much!
Post by: Mobotium on February 08, 2012, 10:17:56 am
Post by: narhiril on February 08, 2012, 10:57:59 am
i felt as if a part of my soul died when i got my commanders artifact breastplate made from adamantite with a picture of nyancat on it...
i cant take him seriously anymore as he froths into a battlerage with a freaking poptart with cat appendages and head shooting rainbows.. of death...
I can relate to that. Easter eggs are funny at first, but turning them off would be a nice option.
Also, pigeons constantly cause marksdwarves to shoot at them while being very aggressive and un-pigeon like. Perhaps their raws should be revised.
Both of these are pretty easy fixes. For the next release, I'll be moving pigeons (the normal kind) over to a different creature file and adding the missing [BENIGN] tag. The only reason that they're in that file at all is because the easter egg variant used to be a caste, but this wasn't working quite well enough so I split it into two creatures.
All of the easter egg creatures are found in creature_easter_egg.txt, so this can just be removed if you don't want any of them. I may also split greater demons into their own file.
The nyan cat thing is actually a shape, so it's found in descriptor_shape_narhiril.txt, which I will be splitting into that file and a "descriptor_shape_easter_egg.txt" file, where they will be moved.
The objective here is that any nonessential, purely "easter egg" features will be removable simply by pulling out all of the files in the raws with "easter_egg" as part of their name. I, personally, don't have any desire to remove them, but I can certainly clean it up a bit for those of you who do.
Question: how did you make your caravans bring wagons? Cause its prety damm awsome!
This is a modified executable which is linked in my signature. I applied a number of Quietust's binary patches with a hex editor to fix a few minor bugs with DF itself - caravan wagons being the most notable of them. You are free to use or re-package that executable in any context, even outside of LFR. It will work just fine with vanilla as well.
Narhiril, wouldn't it be interesting for engravers to engrave about the Gods? I believe this sort of things can be possible the same way you have theeaster egg.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I'm working on this right now, and I'm excited about it.
Post by: Mobotium on February 08, 2012, 11:06:39 am
Post by: BigFatStupidHead on February 08, 2012, 03:40:57 pm
Question: how did you make your caravans bring wagons? Cause its prety damm awsome!Please not that the patched .exe will not work on existing worlds. But fear not! The new version of DFhack has tools that can make it happen in them, too!
Post by: thatkid on February 08, 2012, 06:09:07 pm
I don't actually require boobies to better enjoy the mod, but since I haven't got any other complaints...
Post by: Pan on February 08, 2012, 11:21:58 pm
Back to playing DF again after a long hiatus, and I saw the poll while going to grab the mod (I can't play DF without the mod anymore, it feels weird).
I don't actually require boobies to better enjoy the mod, but since I haven't got any other complaints...
And I thought we were all over this issue months ago. But hey, narhiril, the poll and it's fanboys (no offense) has spoken. :D
Also, cuz of the tileset the ground is full of giant mushrooms (mushrooms are really big in this tileset. Adult jackalopes also look like huge standing bunnies instead of horned rabbits of normal size.)! I dicked around with adventurer mod recently and noticed the aboveground humans planted huge fields of blue and yellow - blue bells and mousebulbs. Realistic or silly is up to you.
Apologies for all this un-positive feedback. But hey, it's what I do.
Post by: Imp on February 08, 2012, 11:47:43 pm
Also, cuz of the tileset the ground is full of giant mushrooms (mushrooms are really big ...
Hrm. The mod has sabretooth tigers, which are a big step back in time, (depending on species, somewhere around 2.5 million to 10 thousand years ago) but then it also has pygmy ankylosaurs (even fuzzier, but estimated at 66.5 to 65.5 million years ago).
Why wouldn't these giant mushrooms also be from a long gone day? Could they not be various types of Prototaxites (considered to be the world's largest organism from about 420 million to 370 million years ago)? My disbelief's fully suspended :P But if they are - then the graphic if anything could handle being enlarged some!
Post by: Dheyjin on February 09, 2012, 02:20:05 am
Got a couple of Meowkin Caravan Guards stuck at my trading post and they start to reproduce...
"Tibita Oiseauxrembourrer - Meowkin Maiden Spear has given birth to a kitten"
Open/Closing the gates doesn't do anything. They won't move.
catsplosion anyone ?
Post by: Pan on February 09, 2012, 04:23:38 am
Also, cuz of the tileset the ground is full of giant mushrooms (mushrooms are really big ...
Hrm. The mod has sabretooth tigers, which are a big step back in time, (depending on species, somewhere around 2.5 million to 10 thousand years ago) but then it also has pygmy ankylosaurs (even fuzzier, but estimated at 66.5 to 65.5 million years ago).
Why wouldn't these giant mushrooms also be from a long gone day? Could they not be various types of Prototaxites (considered to be the world's largest organism from about 420 million to 370 million years ago)? My disbelief's fully suspended :P But if they are - then the graphic if anything could handle being enlarged some!
True, but if the bluebells and mousebulbs were intentionally large, it would have been mentioned somewhere, I should think. Me thinks they are just normal mushrooms. But then again, these are ironhand tilesets anyway. Not in the LFR department.
Caravan guards getting stuck? Probably isn't LFR. Happened to me in vanilla before, too (40d, though). Don't remembered if they bred, though. The merchant horses bred, if I recall, but I think the human caravan went insane.
Post by: Dheyjin on February 09, 2012, 04:42:29 am
Post by: Pan on February 09, 2012, 04:51:37 am
Well I don't really bother with them beeing stuck but I guess breeding Meowkins in my fortress doesn't sound "intended", don't you say ?
I'm going to take a wild guess here and say 'no'. Try deconstructing the depot? Save before doing that, so you can savescum if that doesn't get them to leave. I mean, my depots are filled to the brim with stuff I traded. Deconstructing them or being destroyed via tantrums usually causes a ton of stuff to just fall on the floor.
Post by: Dheyjin on February 09, 2012, 06:43:33 am
As I said, the stuck caravan wasn't the issue here.
But I thought the mod creator might be interested in his civilizations breeding in my fortress and have a look at it.
Post by: Imp on February 09, 2012, 07:35:28 am
I allready got them going. It seems they can't go through 3x3 corridors with 90° corners.
As I said, the stuck caravan wasn't the issue here.
But I thought the mod creator might be interested in his civilizations breeding in my fortress and have a look at it.
I'm not sure this is an LoFR issue. I've occasionally had a caravan guard stay put after the caravan left, though it's rare. I've seen three that I can remember and I've never had two from the same caravan stick around, but that doesn't seem impossible to me. I remember one stayed around the depot and two hung around the edge of the map - none of them went insane and they all eventually left (there was nothing preventing them from leaving that I know of, they could all path out). Think two of them left about a month or two late, and the other stayed over a half year.
About the births, I couldn't find the threads mentioning 'visitors' giving birth, but it has been mentioned on the forums before. I don't recall hearing about guards (or merchants) giving birth, but I believe liaisons very rarely have, and animals brought along for sieges have been reported to (that can be searched for, here's a couple threads mentioning it - http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=49416.msg1026522#msg1026522, http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=37225.0)
I expect that the pregnancy tag had been set before the unit entered the map, and the unit happened to still be there when the time came - seems even vanilla DF has its share of Easter Eggs!
Post by: Dheyjin on February 09, 2012, 08:07:38 am
I expect that the pregnancy tag had been set before the unit entered the map, and the unit happened to still be there when the time came - seems even vanilla DF has its share of Easter Eggs!
yeah, looks like it. I'm not familiar how the scripts work, and haven't seen something like this before. So I thought I post it here.
Seems like I just found a little Dwarf Fortress curiosity. One I won't forget, that's for sure ;)
Post by: simonthedwarf on February 10, 2012, 08:42:44 am
Post by: Pan on February 10, 2012, 08:57:49 am
whats the purpose of the phantasmal statue? i can't melt it
Valuable. Good decor. Story wise, you free a banshee soul with the ectoplasmic residue and it rewards you with a ether statue.
To get ether, conduct alchemy till you receive spheres of ethereal. Designate them for melting and you are good to go. Careful if they are masterwork or the alchemist who made them will get pissed. If the spheres are masterwork quality then just go to the smelter and look for a reaction. It'll change the quality.
Post by: darkflagrance on February 10, 2012, 03:44:34 pm
I expect that the pregnancy tag had been set before the unit entered the map, and the unit happened to still be there when the time came - seems even vanilla DF has its share of Easter Eggs!
yeah, looks like it. I'm not familiar how the scripts work, and haven't seen something like this before. So I thought I post it here.
Seems like I just found a little Dwarf Fortress curiosity. One I won't forget, that's for sure ;)
There's actually an old 40d story about a human caravan guard being trapped in a pit, turned into an exhibit in the fortress zoo, and somehow giving birth to two children. So this bug has been documented in the past, and from the looks of it hasn't been addressed yet.
I've personally experienced sieging enemies giving birth in my fort as well, although never friendlies.
Post by: astianax on February 11, 2012, 08:55:13 am
they all (except the egg-layers, of course) started spitting out kids, and interestingly, all the kids were listed as friendly on the units screen...until, for the usually aggressive sorts, a new ambush or siege of their race showed up. the very next time a new goblin showed on my map, all the gobbo kids went hostile. same for the bog trolls, voidwalkers, and the rest. now, if there were only away to avoid that, and figure out how to get friendlies into a slave population...
Post by: darkflagrance on February 11, 2012, 11:33:04 am
Post by: Meph on February 11, 2012, 05:39:45 pm
Post by: Imp on February 12, 2012, 05:23:13 am
Scary as anything. I'm not enough of a raws-digger to understand syndromes well, nor if they can be directly or indirectly contagious.
Got the message that the extraction was canceled: to injured.
Ahh, someone's wisking the victim off to the hospital already, yay for idlers. Lets check the health screen - hrm, doesn't look like anything's wrong! Diagnosis and then we see, hrm?
Cancel Mr. Diagnoser's training, delight for an instant in his legendary diagnostics, woo - I will really get to know what's wrong now! Unpause.
Diagnosis comes, goes. Both dwarfs start to rush away from the bed, quick, pause! There, now... eww, that's a bloody bed, nasty. But where's the victim going?
Hrm, no treatment needed, she's off to 'clean self'. Spatter of blood on the bed, it's hers, spatters don't sound bad! I'll see if she's blood covered.... eww
She's not, she's pus covered. Doc insists she's in perfect health. She washes and instantly continues to ooze pus from every bodypart, a few faster than others. Oh look, she just paused for a moment.... eww, she's left another spatter of blood behind on the floor, but where exactly is she bleeding from?
This lasted for a couple game weeks or so - but - is it really intended to work that way? Your diagnoser says, 'Just a bad scare. Ignore the skin condition that's about to erupt' and the player's left staring at the pus and periodic bloodspatters, sans wounds, and without more info until the symptoms just fade?
Granted I was able to use that as a story hook, but just about anything can double as a story hook, even most bugs ;p. Is this working as intended?
Post by: simonthedwarf on February 12, 2012, 05:57:57 am
whats the purpose of the phantasmal statue? i can't melt it
Valuable. Good decor. Story wise, you free a banshee soul with the ectoplasmic residue and it rewards you with a ether statue.
To get ether, conduct alchemy till you receive spheres of ethereal. Designate them for melting and you are good to go. Careful if they are masterwork or the alchemist who made them will get pissed. If the spheres are masterwork quality then just go to the smelter and look for a reaction. It'll change the quality.
What category in the stocks are etheral spheres?
Post by: narhiril on February 12, 2012, 04:01:34 pm
whats the purpose of the phantasmal statue? i can't melt it
Valuable. Good decor. Story wise, you free a banshee soul with the ectoplasmic residue and it rewards you with a ether statue.
To get ether, conduct alchemy till you receive spheres of ethereal. Designate them for melting and you are good to go. Careful if they are masterwork or the alchemist who made them will get pissed. If the spheres are masterwork quality then just go to the smelter and look for a reaction. It'll change the quality.
What category in the stocks are etheral spheres?
Toys.
My first accidental overexposure, through lustrum refining (unsure if can be gotten another way)
Scary as anything. I'm not enough of a raws-digger to understand syndromes well, nor if they can be directly or indirectly contagious.
Got the message that the extraction was canceled: to injured.
Ahh, someone's wisking the victim off to the hospital already, yay for idlers. Lets check the health screen - hrm, doesn't look like anything's wrong! Diagnosis and then we see, hrm?
Cancel Mr. Diagnoser's training, delight for an instant in his legendary diagnostics, woo - I will really get to know what's wrong now! Unpause.
Diagnosis comes, goes. Both dwarfs start to rush away from the bed, quick, pause! There, now... eww, that's a bloody bed, nasty. But where's the victim going?
Hrm, no treatment needed, she's off to 'clean self'. Spatter of blood on the bed, it's hers, spatters don't sound bad! I'll see if she's blood covered.... eww
She's not, she's pus covered. Doc insists she's in perfect health. She washes and instantly continues to ooze pus from every bodypart, a few faster than others. Oh look, she just paused for a moment.... eww, she's left another spatter of blood behind on the floor, but where exactly is she bleeding from?
This lasted for a couple game weeks or so - but - is it really intended to work that way? Your diagnoser says, 'Just a bad scare. Ignore the skin condition that's about to erupt' and the player's left staring at the pus and periodic bloodspatters, sans wounds, and without more info until the symptoms just fade?
Granted I was able to use that as a story hook, but just about anything can double as a story hook, even most bugs ;p. Is this working as intended?
It's not always dangerous, but the more often it happens, the more likely it is that you'll see chronic symptoms. It's not supposed to kill your dwarves, but it does slow down the extraction process.
Post by: Imp on February 12, 2012, 05:04:06 pm
It's not always dangerous, but the more often it happens, the more likely it is that you'll see chronic symptoms. It's not supposed to kill your dwarves, but it does slow down the extraction process.
I am sad because this does not appear to 'hook' into the dwarven health care system as currently appears to function and the 'missing bits' are taking punches at my sense of immersion. This astonishes me because LoFR is a very deep and detailed mod, and contains really good consistency and support, even for the Easter Eggs that I have found. I've almost never been jarred in my playing of this mod, so I'm going to explain the dissonance.
I can make myself view it as a purely mechanical 'snag' in the works. But the IC view of how it plays out is what's bugging me.
The healthcare system and wound system seems advanced enough that I've taken for granted I know 'what' is wrong with a dwarf, assuming the diagnoser is up to the task. If a dwarf is bleeding, I expect the game to tell me where it's bleeding from. When a dwarf has no symptoms or wounds but is covered by pus, and then suddenly its blood is on the floor, but no blood on it - and it's still covered with pus... I am picturing bloodcells having joined a cult and teaming up together to mass-teleport from the body to the floor. Is it vomiting blood? Probably not, it's not nauseous, there's no blood on the mouth.... the same lack of evidence trail rules out coughing blood, crying blood, blood oozing from the pores...
With the way the mechanics are playing out in game, it's incredibly hard to tell if the dwarf is still affected or not. Also to tell if it is spreading to other dwarves. In fact, the only reason I happened to check the inventory of the dwarf (and so noticed the pus) was because when it hopped up out of bed after being diagnosed the bed was all bloody - but the health screen said the dwarf was fine and needed no treatment. The dwarf hadn't been bleeding, bled because of the diagnosing, and now is uninjured or what? I had to check everything I could think of about it to try and understand the weirdness.
It was very jarring to watch the dwarf instantly collapse and other dwarves rush to carry it to the hospital, to see the legendary diagnoser run over to it, then have it leap up immediately after diagnosis like 'Oh, silly me, I'm perfectly ok, hehehe', to see health reports of nothing being wrong with this dwarf, but to see the bumbling thing wander off constantly seeping pus and erradically producing blood spatter from nowhere while it, the highly skilled doctor, and the rest of the fortress act like the 'medical emergency' of seconds before had been a false call and everything's great now.
Maybe this is how syndromes always are and have to be! I have almost no prior experience with syndromes affecting my dwarves, and I do have lower standards for syndromes affecting enemies and animals (if something doesn't get health care, I dont expect health care details about it).
In case it isn't clear, I -like- the syndrome. I like stuff like this in general! Make more of them - I just don't like the lack of 'supporting details'. I want to be able to see that the dwarf is still ill or that it has recovered, and I want to see if others catch it - without having to check the inventory of every dwarf in my fortress for a covering of pus :( I want to know where a bleeding dwarf is bleeding from. I'd love to have a sense of if the symptoms are getting worse or better over time.
Is this lack of detail just how syndromes work in DF?
Post by: Pan on February 12, 2012, 06:18:08 pm
Anything beats 'mysteriously teleporting to the ground'.
Post by: Imp on February 12, 2012, 06:35:57 pm
Maybe the blood and pus was just oozing out the skin? Radiation probably turned the blood bad or something? Body trying to get rid of it? The skin was covered, but no wounds. So it's the skin oozing it out like sweat. Doctors will call bullshit, but this hypothesis beats the blood just 'teleporting' there. Story wise, the diagnostician saw that nothing can possibly be done of it except to wait and told him to 'walk it off'?
Anything beats 'mysteriously teleporting to the ground'.
Sure. But the skin wasn't covered with blood - it was covered with pus. Both before and after the blood appeared on the ground. And it wasn't blood and pus on the ground, it was just blood. So somehow the blood came out of the pus-covered body, without removing the pus from the body, without taking the pus with it, and ended up on the floor, without leaving a trace of blood behind on any bodypart, without any 'obvious' symptoms before or after the blood appeared.
The skin can ooze blood - certain hemmoragic fevers can cause separation and bleeding between the layers of the skin, so there is no open wound yet (though the skin usually soon tears open), and the failing skin can ooze blood. This dwarf's skin was not oozing blood, but it was oozing pus - the dwarf cleaned itself at a pool of water, and I was tapping pause and checking (wanted to see where that pus went when it washed off!) as briefly as I could let the instants pass. When the dwarf washed, pus appeared on the ground, and bodyparts started to become covered in pus again. Wasn't all at once, took about a second and a half to cover every bit of the dwarf again, and appeared to be oozing in random order from the whole body.
That doesn't blow my mind. It's gross, but it has its own inherent logic and consistency. In fact - that's awesomely gross. This perfectly fits this game and this mod, in my mind. Add this mysterious 'wait, where did that come from... where -could- that have come from' blood though - and that consistency is blown, along with my sense of immersion. The only explaination I can think of is that awful 'the blood joined a cult and mass teleported away' - which is also jarring but at least fits all the details the game is providing :-[
Dunno, I'm sure I'm making way to much of this
Post by: simonthedwarf on February 12, 2012, 06:42:36 pm
Mad.
Post by: Pan on February 12, 2012, 08:10:51 pm
Maybe the blood and pus was just oozing out the skin? Radiation probably turned the blood bad or something? Body trying to get rid of it? The skin was covered, but no wounds. So it's the skin oozing it out like sweat. Doctors will call bullshit, but this hypothesis beats the blood just 'teleporting' there. Story wise, the diagnostician saw that nothing can possibly be done of it except to wait and told him to 'walk it off'?
Anything beats 'mysteriously teleporting to the ground'.
Sure. But the skin wasn't covered with blood - it was covered with pus. Both before and after the blood appeared on the ground. And it wasn't blood and pus on the ground, it was just blood. So somehow the blood came out of the pus-covered body, without removing the pus from the body, without taking the pus with it, and ended up on the floor, without leaving a trace of blood behind on any bodypart, without any 'obvious' symptoms before or after the blood appeared.
The skin can ooze blood - certain hemmoragic fevers can cause separation and bleeding between the layers of the skin, so there is no open wound yet (though the skin usually soon tears open), and the failing skin can ooze blood. This dwarf's skin was not oozing blood, but it was oozing pus - the dwarf cleaned itself at a pool of water, and I was tapping pause and checking (wanted to see where that pus went when it washed off!) as briefly as I could let the instants pass. When the dwarf washed, pus appeared on the ground, and bodyparts started to become covered in pus again. Wasn't all at once, took about a second and a half to cover every bit of the dwarf again, and appeared to be oozing in random order from the whole body.
That doesn't blow my mind. It's gross, but it has its own inherent logic and consistency. In fact - that's awesomely gross. This perfectly fits this game and this mod, in my mind. Add this mysterious 'wait, where did that come from... where -could- that have come from' blood though - and that consistency is blown, along with my sense of immersion. The only explaination I can think of is that awful 'the blood joined a cult and mass teleported away' - which is also jarring but at least fits all the details the game is providing :-[
Dunno, I'm sure I'm making way to much of this
Another idea! He was pissing and shitting blood. After all, it just appeared on the ground, yea? So he probably pissed blood. And you can't tell if there's anything on his testicles since it's not included in their body part wounds list. After all, dwarves (and all other races) are definitely implied to have testicles, but are just not shown. :D
Post by: astianax on February 12, 2012, 11:26:55 pm
Post by: narhiril on February 13, 2012, 10:33:20 am
(http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/1690/sadhe.jpg)
Mad.
This is the most terrifying weapon I have ever seen.
The healthcare system sometimes does weird things with syndromes. Sometimes you will go ahead and see an alchemist carried off to the hospital and maybe even diagnosed ("lustrum poisoning" or "radiation sickness," usually), but even with stock syndromes, there doesn't seem to be much that the doctors can do about anything that isn't rot.
Don't fear, though - I've never had a problem with lustrum poisoning spreading through blood or pus. It's supposed to be inhaled during the reaction sometimes. Besides being irritating for your staff and causing a mess, lustrum poisoning isn't supposed to be a mortal danger. I have other syndromes for that. ;)
---
I apologize, I've been very busy recently with school, friends, and a new relationship. I did get around to finishing a tier four workshop for the ritual tree, which won't be used until after the next version of DF, but I thought it was worth noting.
Spoiler: it's 22x22. (click to show/hide)
Post by: simonthedwarf on February 13, 2012, 02:39:53 pm
btw, I think voidwalkers being ambushers is making them a tad too strong. it also makes the more of a omnidangerous threat since they have no drawbacks to their civ.
additionally with my embarks they seem to show up right after goblins :/
Post by: Imp on February 13, 2012, 03:02:46 pm
The healthcare system sometimes does weird things with syndromes. Sometimes you will go ahead and see an alchemist carried off to the hospital and maybe even diagnosed ("lustrum poisoning" or "radiation sickness," usually), but even with stock syndromes, there doesn't seem to be much that the doctors can do about anything that isn't rot.
Don't fear, though - I've never had a problem with lustrum poisoning spreading through blood or pus. It's supposed to be inhaled during the reaction sometimes. Besides being irritating for your staff and causing a mess, lustrum poisoning isn't supposed to be a mortal danger. I have other syndromes for that. ;)
Thank you. Part of why I was disturbed was that the only information the game was giving me about that dwarf's health status was coming from obsessively staring at it and constantly pausing to see what if anything had changed. I'd so MUCH prefer to be able to tell by watching the health screen(s) or something, then by having to constantly check the square the dwarf stood on, the squares around that dwarf, the inventory of the dwarf, the health of the dwarf, and so on -and then too for all the dwarves who have come very close to that dwarf, it's blood, or its pus....
The effect is so subtle, other than the initial diagnosis need and the dwarf leaping up afterwards to clean itself, that if I'd just watched for main messages and kept playing - I'd have missed it all. No pus, no blood, no interesting show that you crafted for us to see! :'(
You made it, I want to enjoy it - ideally without having to check 10 different things every half second between the next pause and check those things again. I can't play like that for long! But I blame the syndrome/healthcare results stuff now for not being able to support showing the interesting details that are going on, and am still glad you made it. I've even 'forgiven' the dwarves for claiming I was imagining the pus and blood and all (since they said the afflicted was perfectly healthy) :P
I can hardly wait to play with the new giant workshops!
Post by: astianax on February 13, 2012, 03:38:15 pm
i'm really looking forward to your new stuff, and busily jotting down ideas of my own for the new reactions. an idea that crashed into me while reading simonthedwarf's bit about voidwalkers was maybe turning a dog or something into a 'spotter' with a high situational awareness, so they could see things coming from further away, and stationing them at key locations so ambushes didn't stay concealed until in your hallways.
that, of course, got me to thinking about all those gods that only show up occasionally in your dwarven pantheons, and things that could be done to appease them. like the ones of hunting, caverns, the sky (and related things...including rainbows), fish, plants, muck, death, disease or whatnot. i'd changed my dwarven sphere alignments so more of these show than usual...often a primary god is either of light or darkness (often combined with fortresses, oddly). i usually poke through my civs in legends mode just to see who has the most interesting assortment of deities and play that civ...
Post by: simonthedwarf on February 13, 2012, 06:00:39 pm
Post by: narhiril on February 14, 2012, 02:46:52 am
Temples will allow your dwarves to perform rituals to transfigure themselves into new units (I have not yet worked out the logistics of this - it will either be a change in caste or a new creature entirely). These reactions will have some pretty awesome effects (and, potentially, consequences), giving you access to things like fire-breathing dwarven "emberlight warriors of Zalkor," or a curse in the form of transfiguration into a monstrous, hostile creature.
Tier four buildings, which I am calling "cathedrals" as an umbrella term, will allow for even grander champions, including an "upgrade" system for these new units - for example, a reaction to turn a dwarf into a "lacerator of Armok," and another, unlockable ritual to transform a lacerator into a fabled "hand of Armok." Or maybe a really pissed off greater demon, depending on your luck. ;)
Post by: Teach on February 14, 2012, 04:27:08 am
Post by: Jilladilla on February 14, 2012, 06:36:46 pm
ritual to transform a lacerator into a fabled "hand of Armok." Or maybe a really pissed off greater demon, depending on your luck. ;)
I honestly dont see the problem here, although a "Hand of Armok" sounds a lot more awesome
Post by: Pan on February 14, 2012, 08:07:46 pm
Post by: simonthedwarf on February 14, 2012, 09:41:45 pm
Post by: astianax on February 14, 2012, 09:47:31 pm
as is, stupid 12-hour long workdays keeping me from the shiny, new df 'til this weekend...
Post by: simonthedwarf on February 14, 2012, 09:51:48 pm
Post by: narhiril on February 15, 2012, 04:39:02 am
Will you be starting work on making this mod work with the new version?
Most of tomorrow will be spent trying to get a version up and running for DF 0.34.01. Tonight, I tried to spend a little time combing through the raws and just looking at what needs to be updated in the existing version to bring it up to speed - mostly graphics and breath attacks, but language files need a little work too.
Expect either an update tomorrow or some news about one coming later this week.
Post by: narhiril on February 15, 2012, 12:06:04 pm
The language files all need some new words, and I've taken the liberty of restoring the "obscene" words that were removed in this version - with my thanks to CptMayday. Frankly, Toady can do whatever he wants with making this game family-friendly, but I'm a modder, and if I want my mod to have a goblin named Anusbitch, my mod WILL have a goblin named Anusbitch. Deal with it. *flips down sunglasses*
I have been informed that tortoises are a possible upcoming stock creature, so rather than cut my own tortoises and their pathetic little (and adorable, in a way) graphics, LFR's tortoises will be getting renamed to avoid confusion.
I may be able, depending on timing, to get a 0.34.01-compatible release out by tonight. Since it's as good a time as any, I'll be rolling the completed changes that were slated for 0.15b into this as well.
Spoiler: changelog for 0.15b (click to show/hide)
Post by: narhiril on February 15, 2012, 02:26:12 pm
Oh, and watch out for akumas. They seem to be a lot more dangerous with the new fireball interactions.
Post by: SalmonGod on February 15, 2012, 05:49:05 pm
Post by: narhiril on February 15, 2012, 05:56:29 pm
I can go ahead and make the ritual tree unlock spells now, which is more than I thought I would be able to do, and the floodgates for that haven't even opened yet. I'm also bringing back pyrophoric zingers. It's going to be a HELL of an update :D
Post by: Pan on February 15, 2012, 06:16:35 pm
I have to confess, I've been playing around for the last four hours with emberlight warriors, and I've almost got them to a state where I can go ahead and put them in the mod, so I hope you'll all forgive me, but the wait will be worth it. I just need to tweak them so that they stop melting themselves. Shouldn't take long.
I can go ahead and make the ritual tree unlock spells now, which is more than I thought I would be able to do, and the floodgatesfor that haven't even opened yet. I'm also bringing back pyrophoric zingers. It's going to be a HELL of an update :D
Might as well include in the lacerators and hand of Armok and such in the next update too. Wait will be worth it, I should think.
Post by: Rykan on February 15, 2012, 08:06:23 pm
Post by: Putnam on February 16, 2012, 12:46:42 am
Eagerly awaiting the release. I've been holding off on actually starting a fort until a good mod has been updated to the new version, and this one looks great.
You're hurting feelings here! :P
(though this mod really is far better than any of mine)
Post by: Imp on February 16, 2012, 02:08:08 am
Future releases will no longer support 0.31.25, though a download of LFR v0.15a for DF 0.31.25 will be kept around as a legacy file.
Thank you, thank you, thank you, from the bottom of my story-driven game! All forts and their stories die, but it warms me greatly that they need not die at an arbitrary time because 'the new way is come and the old way is gone'.
Post by: SalmonGod on February 16, 2012, 02:50:55 am
Post by: narhiril on February 16, 2012, 02:54:07 am
Much appreciation for the update!!
The only change I wasn't able to push through was language additions, but the rest should be working. Have fun with Zalkor's minions.
Post by: Pan on February 16, 2012, 04:22:36 am
Eagerly awaiting the release. I've been holding off on actually starting a fort until a good mod has been updated to the new version, and this one looks great.
You're hurting feelings here! :P
(though this mod really is far better than any of mine)
You are being too hard on yourself, my friend. Your mod just doesn't appeal to those who have not read the Homestuck webcomic. From what I see of the mod, I'd say your profile comment tells the truth on your modding skills, Putnam.
Woo! New version! But not to sound whiny or unappreciative, but no lacerators or Hand of Armok reactions? Also, if a dwarf is transformed into an emberlight warrior, is there a chance that they will turn into a different gender emberlight warrior?
Also, apparently, no caste specific graphics... Guess lacerators will look just like dwarves with graphics..
Also: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=101059.0
Post by: narhiril on February 16, 2012, 02:27:26 pm
Eagerly awaiting the release. I've been holding off on actually starting a fort until a good mod has been updated to the new version, and this one looks great.
You're hurting feelings here! :P
(though this mod really is far better than any of mine)
You are being too hard on yourself, my friend. Your mod just doesn't appeal to those who have not read the Homestuck webcomic. From what I see of the mod, I'd say your profile comment tells the truth on your modding skills, Putnam.
Woo! New version! But not to sound whiny or unappreciative, but no lacerators or Hand of Armok reactions? Also, if a dwarf is transformed into an emberlight warrior, is there a chance that they will turn into a different gender emberlight warrior?
Also, apparently, no caste specific graphics... Guess lacerators will look just like dwarves with graphics..
Also: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=101059.0
I don't have the corresponding buildings for any other units done at the moment, which is why it's only emberlights right now. Don't lose hope, though - I may be able to find a way around the graphic issue. I haven't thoroughly tested what turning a dwarf into another civilized creature does.
I structured the reaction so that it turns males into male emberlights and females into female emberlights. Note that it does not work on savants, as there doesn't seem to be any way for me to carry over a natural skill.
Also, try butchering a tortoise now.
Post by: Alkhemia on February 16, 2012, 07:21:08 pm
Post by: Pan on February 16, 2012, 08:27:06 pm
Quick question how do you make wheelbarrows?
Machine shop.
Post by: Alkhemia on February 17, 2012, 12:40:43 am
Post by: narhiril on February 17, 2012, 03:43:36 am
Now I need to figure out if this is a problem with LFR or a new feature (intended or not) of DF.
Post by: Imp on February 17, 2012, 05:08:00 am
Any plans to have alchemy or religion give us a way to make functional antidotes someday? Would that even be possible? ???
Post by: Pan on February 17, 2012, 05:32:50 am
Post by: Meph on February 17, 2012, 12:02:46 pm
Quote
but... these darts have helmet snake venom covering.
You can create covered items ?
Post by: Imp on February 17, 2012, 12:27:22 pm
Quotebut... these darts have helmet snake venom covering.
You can create covered items ?
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
The lizardmen had just spawned, and wanted to know if there were any projectile-ists among them. Blowguns made me think of poison, so I checked.
Wasn't expecting to -see- poison, mind you. Just thought I should check.
And this is in a game based off of the last release, not the newest DF. Happy Easter, every game, every play, everyone! *stares glumly at the siege for a moment, then goes off to work*
Post by: Mobotium on February 17, 2012, 01:23:28 pm
Post by: astianax on February 18, 2012, 02:31:34 pm
first, one of my 450 artifacts made in worldgen was a book made out of sentinel core. that's pretty impressive.
second, there are a *lot* of meowkin necromancers. nothing wrong with that, just interesting. and a fair number of lizardman necros, too
nephilim and hobgoblins (a modded race, stronger, slightly more likeable, and more organized than goblins...with steel) keep moving into each other's cities. a lot of the neph are kidnapped and grow up in the hobgoblin cities (they're babysnatchers) but some seem to move in as adults. and no real explanation for why the hobbos move in with the neph...and are allowed. but i kinda like that
most interestingly, one of my world's early dwarven kings was an emberlight warrior (born to a necromancer, interestingly enough). sadly, he was only king for one year before being killed by the demon that wrote the sentinel core book (and at least 30 other books...)
Post by: narhiril on February 18, 2012, 02:59:20 pm
This release won't see a whole lot of changes - mostly revised entity files to accommodation the new decoration tokens (that I had erroneously left out of the last release), a force multiplier for ethereal weapons against certain targets, and revised LFR language files for the new words in the dictionary.
I would be up to that today, but it happens to be my significant other's birthday, so it's going to have to wait - sorry, I'm making an executive decision.
In the mean time, check out Meph's golem forge for some idea of where the fourth tier of LFR's tech tree will soon be heading. I'll be revising the poll shortly to see whether people would prefer tier four tech or tier three ritual first. The tech tree (t4) will focus on upgraded armor and mechanical constructs. The ritual tree (t3) will focus on servants and blessings of the elemental Old Gods.
Oh yeah, and the shedim might be making a comeback pretty soon. Just a heads up so you can ready the defenses.
Post by: 73 on February 18, 2012, 04:23:39 pm
However, I'm a bit confused on this one minor point:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
That's a room filled with 30+ dwarven children (most of them on top of each other) that I've flooded with magma. The lowest tile is 5/7, with some already filled, and it's been filling for a while.
(For the record, my justification for trying to burn all these kids is that in a fortress of 65 dwarves or so, more than half are children. Damn migrants...)
Anyway, as you might have noticed, they're... not dead. In fact, they're not even hurt, aside from a few who are drowning in magma since their tiles filled.
The magma destroyed their clothes, although said clothing didn't catch fire. But now they're just naked and swimming in it, and have been for quite some time (since the room filled slowly).
This is a completely unmodified version of 15.b, still using 34.01. Really, completely unmodified - I've changed absolutely nothing from the download, including the init files - and yes, temperature is on.
Anyway, I've got no idea if this is due to the new DF version itself or LFR, but I thought I'd post it here, since I hadn't seen any threads for vanilla DF with nonmeltable children.
Post by: SalmonGod on February 18, 2012, 04:29:04 pm
Post by: trees on February 18, 2012, 04:45:20 pm
Code: [Select]
[SELECT_MATERIAL:ALL]
[COLDDAM_POINT:NONE]
[HEATDAM_POINT:NONE]
[IGNITE_POINT:NONE]
[IF_EXISTS_SET_MELTING_POINT:55000]
[IF_EXISTS_SET_BOILING_POINT:57000]
Post by: Pan on February 18, 2012, 08:45:45 pm
Well, the new release has brought me back to DF after a long break, and I have to say that I'm really enjoying playing it with LFR. There's just so much to do; the constant progression forwards is sweet.
However, I'm a bit confused on this one minor point:Spoiler (click to show/hide)
That's a room filled with 30+ dwarven children (most of them on top of each other) that I've flooded with magma. The lowest tile is 5/7, with some already filled, and it's been filling for a while.
(For the record, my justification for trying to burn all these kids is that in a fortress of 65 dwarves or so, more than half are children. Damn migrants...)
Anyway, as you might have noticed, they're... not dead. In fact, they're not even hurt, aside from a few who are drowning in magma since their tiles filled.
The magma destroyed their clothes, although said clothing didn't catch fire. But now they're just naked and swimming in it, and have been for quite some time (since the room filled slowly).
This is a completely unmodified version of 15.b, still using 34.01. Really, completely unmodified - I've changed absolutely nothing from the download, including the init files - and yes, temperature is on.
Anyway, I've got no idea if this is due to the new DF version itself or LFR, but I thought I'd post it here, since I hadn't seen any threads for vanilla DF with nonmeltable children.
I applaud you of this, good sir, and is greatly saddened to see that the children are not harmed. Guess they'll just have to drown instead.
Post by: Alkhemia on February 18, 2012, 11:15:50 pm
I just checked and emberlight warriors have [FIREIMMUNE_SUPER] and I think I remember reading that that's a caste-level token. Possible workaround, used in the dragon's raws (I know that caste-level materials work):Ah that why none of my dwarf burned to death in that fire [FIREIMMUNE_SUPER] go on the whole creature not just the casteCode: [Select][SELECT_MATERIAL:ALL]
[COLDDAM_POINT:NONE]
[HEATDAM_POINT:NONE]
[IGNITE_POINT:NONE]
[IF_EXISTS_SET_MELTING_POINT:55000]
[IF_EXISTS_SET_BOILING_POINT:57000]
Post by: simonthedwarf on February 19, 2012, 06:52:02 am
Post by: narhiril on February 19, 2012, 01:31:23 pm
I just checked and emberlight warriors have [FIREIMMUNE_SUPER] and I think I remember reading that that's a caste-level token. Possible workaround, used in the dragon's raws (I know that caste-level materials work):Ah that why none of my dwarf burned to death in that fire [FIREIMMUNE_SUPER] go on the whole creature not just the casteCode: [Select][SELECT_MATERIAL:ALL]
[COLDDAM_POINT:NONE]
[HEATDAM_POINT:NONE]
[IGNITE_POINT:NONE]
[IF_EXISTS_SET_MELTING_POINT:55000]
[IF_EXISTS_SET_BOILING_POINT:57000]
Squashing that bug now. Expect a 0.34.02-compatible release today.
----
A few hints about upcoming features planned for LFR v0.15d...
TECH TREE
-Mechanical constructs that function as war creatures.
-Armor upgrades.
-A new, special type of alcohol with empowering properties.
-Throwing weapons, which can be used with any one-handed weapon.
-Upgraded throwing weapon ammunition.
RITUAL TREE
-Temples to the other elemental Old Gods
-Spells and units associated with these gods.
-More powerful, unique weapons.
CIVILIZATIONS
-Voidwalker spell casters
-Voidwalker material weakness to ethereal weapons (done and ready for 0.15c)
-Fully functional Shedim race, enemy of all.
-Shedim spell casters
-Shedim caste variations
-Nephal "seraphim" elite units.
-Lizardman poisons.
OTHER
-New secrets to discover.
-New easter eggs. Duh.
Post by: astianax on February 19, 2012, 03:14:34 pm
and a whole lot more emberlight warriors showing up in legends, too. 'a whole lot' meaning i've seen about a dozen mentioned in 250 years of history. most seem to become leaders of some sort for a year or three before stepping down. i've seen them as kings/queens, generals, and the priestly equivalent that has many different names. a few will get killed randomly by vampires, too. they're still set to pop: 0, so apparently legends ignores that or occasionally decides someone's done the ritual. (also, i love that emberlight warriors get a natural cooking skill)
anyway, back to the nephilim. i started noticing some really unexpected actions from a handful...sometimes, those that become scouts decide that's the perfect time to torture and kill other beings they encounter. and they surprised me with the variety of ways they'd do it. one had decapitated or disemboweled some humans, as well as setting others on fire or burying them alive. rather twisted, which made me peek at their ethics...which again was a surprise. you secretly made them the inquisition...which makes perfect sense with their story, now that i think of it
Post by: narhiril on February 19, 2012, 03:19:40 pm
finally saw my first nephilim and voidwalker necromancers in my second world's legends mode. my first nephilim necromancer actually taught necromancy to a voidwalker. and learned it from a lizardman
and a whole lot more emberlight warriors showing up in legends, too. 'a whole lot' meaning i've seen about a dozen mentioned in 250 years of history. most seem to become leaders of some sort for a year or three before stepping down. i've seen them as kings/queens, generals, and the priestly equivalent that has many different names. a few will get killed randomly by vampires, too. they're still set to pop: 0, so apparently legends ignores that or occasionally decides someone's done the ritual. (also, i love that emberlight warriors get a natural cooking skill)
anyway, back to the nephilim. i started noticing some really unexpected actions from a handful...sometimes, those that become scouts decide that's the perfect time to torture and kill other beings they encounter. and they surprised me with the variety of ways they'd do it. one had decapitated or disemboweled some humans, as well as setting others on fire or burying them alive. rather twisted, which made me peek at their ethics...which again was a surprise. you secretly made them the inquisition...which makes perfect sense with their story, now that i think of it
That was intended. They look like angels, but they're a bit overzealous.
The release is waiting on me finishing up the language files. I was able to make up some new words to fit the shedim, moroii, voidwalker, and lizardman languages, and I was able to kludge and Google my way through the Latin one for the nephilim (I took four years of Latin, so that helped a bit), but the French one is the one that is taking the longest. I'm working on that now.
Hopefully I'll have a release up (complete with a new SC) in the next few hours. I just need to finish the language files and make undead graphics for the rest of the civilized races in LFR to open up some new fun and pave the way for the shedim. This shouldn't take long, I already have the graphics, I just need to take a few, feed them through a filter, and do some re-coloring.
Post by: narhiril on February 19, 2012, 05:13:20 pm
EDIT: Ok, here we go. New poll is up... I know it isn't nearly as large as the last one, but it's an important question for the next development arc.
Also, it seems we have a winner from the last poll... A shocking 39.4% of you complained about the author of LFR not posting pictures of her boobies. So without any further distractions...
Spoiler: Boobies. (click to show/hide)
... So what do you guys think? Personally, I'm a little bit insecure about them. The one on the left seems to be both a little bigger and a little perkier. At least they seem to both be pointing in the right direction. I mean, it could be worse - I HATE when the boobies decide to take off in different directions.
Post by: Meph on February 19, 2012, 05:28:44 pm
Post by: Roses on February 19, 2012, 05:32:33 pm
Post by: trees on February 19, 2012, 05:39:46 pm
-Fully functional Shedim race, enemy of all.
Very excited for this!
-Lizardman poisons.
What will this include? Do you mean along the lines of venomous bites, or have you made progress in getting them to coat their weapons with poison?
Post by: Meph on February 19, 2012, 05:40:40 pm
Post by: Teach on February 19, 2012, 05:45:04 pm
I'm all for Voidwalker spells as long as you promise that none of them will be fire based. Maybe some skin melting miasma or something like that I can't really imagine them as traditional wizards. Also, I'm testing forts in evil biomes and I've noticed dwarves don't react to the evil rain. I'm not sure if it's my poor luck or perhaps some tags that are preventing the dwarves from being affected. As for the ethereal force multiplier I'm not sure if we'll notice it cause my Militia commander was already cutting through voidwalkers like butter. Maybe buff the CCS (weapon from the Wealth reaction). It was severing limbs quite nicely but also getting deflected by clothes. Do sieges draw from historical figures now? If so voidwalkers should be properly deadly. Off to test the new version now.
Post by: narhiril on February 19, 2012, 06:00:21 pm
Hey narhiril
I'm all for Voidwalker spells as long as you promise that none of them will be fire based. Maybe some skin melting miasma or something like that I can't really imagine them as traditional wizards. Also, I'm testing forts in evil biomes and I've noticed dwarves don't react to the evil rain. I'm not sure if it's my poor luck or perhaps some tags that are preventing the dwarves from being affected. As for the ethereal force multiplier I'm not sure if we'll notice it cause my Militia commander was already cutting through voidwalkers like butter. Maybe buff the CCS (weapon from the Wealth reaction). It was severing limbs quite nicely but also getting deflected by clothes. Do sieges draw from historical figures now? If so voidwalkers should be properly deadly. Off to test the new version now.
Hahaha... hahahaha... HAHAHAHAHAHA.
You're going to wish I had just given them fire.
As for the weapons from the early reactions (CCS, bloodforged club, etc) - these will be upgraded in tiers three and four of the ritual tree. Stay tuned for that. xD
I saw the post about poision-covered blowdarts in this thread, but somehow never got an answer... how did you do that ? :)
Do you want the short answer or the long answer?
Spoiler: Answers (click to show/hide)
-Fully functional Shedim race, enemy of all.
Very excited for this!-Lizardman poisons.
What will this include? Do you mean along the lines of venomous bites, or have you made progress in getting them to coat their weapons with poison?
For the lizardmen, spitting venom, for starters. I'll be giving that a pretty long cooldown though.
The shedim are nowhere near done, though - I don't even have the templates done for their body parts yet. They're a lot more intricate than any other creature I have done thus far.
Post by: nukularpower on February 19, 2012, 06:00:33 pm
Looking forward to finally seeing the Shedim in action!
Post by: trees on February 19, 2012, 09:04:50 pm
Spoiler: Answers (click to show/hide)
It's probably some hardcoded behavior of blowdarts, then. Odd.
Post by: Pan on February 19, 2012, 09:24:39 pm
Spoiler: Answers (click to show/hide)
It's probably some hardcoded behavior of blowdarts, then. Odd.
That is so cool. I wonder if they work as intended?
Post by: Imp on February 19, 2012, 10:33:48 pm
I believe it almost has to be intended. The poison takes effect when the target gets hit - at least 'some' syndrome affected the animals struck by the blowdarts I mentioned. I can't compare that to a helmet snake bite - I've never seen a helmet snake in my play, but the wiki's list of symptoms didn't conflict.Spoiler: Answers (click to show/hide)
It's probably some hardcoded behavior of blowdarts, then. Odd.
That is so cool. I wonder if they work as intended?
Real-life blowdarts were very commonly poisoned - unless used on a tiny animal blowdarts were not lethal enough for use in hunting or killing (even though they were almost exclusively used for hunting). For me at least - the moment I saw a blowdart I thought to check for poison, and was (dismayed, but) not at all surprised to see there was poison. That's... kinda like what a blowdart's supposed to do, far as I know. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blowgun
Post by: Seraphyx on February 19, 2012, 11:05:00 pm
For example in age of empires you have to build certain buildings to advance in ages, and it tells you what type of buildings you need to advance. How will I know when I can/advance to the next tech?
Post by: narhiril on February 19, 2012, 11:11:06 pm
Got a few questions before I start playing. This "tech tree" advancement, how exactly does it work?
For example in age of empires you have to build certain buildings to advance in ages, and it tells you what type of buildings you need to advance. How will I know when I can/advance to the next tech?
The mod includes a supplementary folder of text files, one of which is named "lfr_mechanical_tech_tree.txt," which explains the features and advancement criteria for each tier of the tech tree in detail. I am told that the documentation for this mod is most helpful to most people, but of course, if you ever have any questions, feel free to post here or message me directly. If you ever have any suggestions for additional documentation or clarification, I would, of course, be eager to hear those as well.
Post by: Seraphyx on February 19, 2012, 11:16:21 pm
Got a few questions before I start playing. This "tech tree" advancement, how exactly does it work?
For example in age of empires you have to build certain buildings to advance in ages, and it tells you what type of buildings you need to advance. How will I know when I can/advance to the next tech?
The mod includes a supplementary folder of text files, one of which is named "lfr_mechanical_tech_tree.txt," which explains the features and advancement criteria for each tier of the tech tree in detail. I am told that the documentation for this mod is most helpful to most people, but of course, if you ever have any questions, feel free to post here or message me directly. If you ever have any suggestions for additional documentation or clarification, I would, of course, be eager to hear those as well.
Ah I should have checked it, I just got done downloading it a few minutes ago and started generating some worlds. And on the topic of generating worlds. If I save a world that was genned with this mod can I play it on a clean install of DF? I'm guessing the answer is no but thought I'd ask anyway.
Post by: narhiril on February 19, 2012, 11:23:53 pm
Got a few questions before I start playing. This "tech tree" advancement, how exactly does it work?
For example in age of empires you have to build certain buildings to advance in ages, and it tells you what type of buildings you need to advance. How will I know when I can/advance to the next tech?
The mod includes a supplementary folder of text files, one of which is named "lfr_mechanical_tech_tree.txt," which explains the features and advancement criteria for each tier of the tech tree in detail. I am told that the documentation for this mod is most helpful to most people, but of course, if you ever have any questions, feel free to post here or message me directly. If you ever have any suggestions for additional documentation or clarification, I would, of course, be eager to hear those as well.
Ah I should have checked it, I just got done downloading it a few minutes ago and started generating some worlds. And on the topic of generating worlds. If I save a world that was genned with this mod can I play it on a clean install of DF? I'm guessing the answer is no but thought I'd ask anyway.
Raws are saved locally for each region, so yes, you probably could.
Post by: Seraphyx on February 19, 2012, 11:26:32 pm
Got a few questions before I start playing. This "tech tree" advancement, how exactly does it work?
For example in age of empires you have to build certain buildings to advance in ages, and it tells you what type of buildings you need to advance. How will I know when I can/advance to the next tech?
The mod includes a supplementary folder of text files, one of which is named "lfr_mechanical_tech_tree.txt," which explains the features and advancement criteria for each tier of the tech tree in detail. I am told that the documentation for this mod is most helpful to most people, but of course, if you ever have any questions, feel free to post here or message me directly. If you ever have any suggestions for additional documentation or clarification, I would, of course, be eager to hear those as well.
Ah I should have checked it, I just got done downloading it a few minutes ago and started generating some worlds. And on the topic of generating worlds. If I save a world that was genned with this mod can I play it on a clean install of DF? I'm guessing the answer is no but thought I'd ask anyway.
Raws are saved locally for each region, so yes, you probably could.
Thanks for the quick answers, much appreciated ;p
Post by: Putnam on February 19, 2012, 11:31:02 pm
Ah, yes
Quote from: 12/13/11 Toady Devlog
Despite soaping out my insides, I managed to get a bit done. Leaders show up properly with their populations and I managed my sewer troubles. For some reason the animal people living in the sewers coated their blowdarts with honey bee venom before shooting me with them as I walked by the sewer outflow. I wonder why the townspeople tolerate them. Dungeon items and a few bugs remain in the dungeon issues list.
Post by: Jilladilla on February 19, 2012, 11:46:32 pm
Got a few questions before I start playing. This "tech tree" advancement, how exactly does it work?
For example in age of empires you have to build certain buildings to advance in ages, and it tells you what type of buildings you need to advance. How will I know when I can/advance to the next tech?
well first off for the tech tree you need precision tools to advance, the "normal" way to get those is from orichalcum, it can be found anywhere, so its likely that your dwarven civ has some if push comes to shove.
after smelting take it to an alchemy lab, make precision tools, and then get an advanced mechanics shop to make more precision tools out of more "conventional" metals and advanced mechanisms, after that, build as many new buildings you care to, and use those as much as possible!
after that is potentially frustrating stuff and, in some cases !!FUN!!
Post by: Imp on February 19, 2012, 11:53:37 pm
Post by: narhiril on February 20, 2012, 12:57:21 am
I just looked at the first page of this thread again. I've just seen the new logo. I love it! But it gives me that 'Dwarves in Space' scary feel - now I'm scared to try and complete the tech tree (someday, when I start playing the current version again!)
I've spent the last few hours playing around with incorporating armor and weapons as body parts for a new creature. Things have been going well, with a fully functional sword and armor test creature.
I also came up with a funny little crazed humanoid creature that could kill eight aatxes and three fully adamantine-clad master fighters at the same time. It got one of its fingers broken in the process. I don't really know what I could possibly do with it - perhaps drop it down in the circus and watch the mayhem, or allow it to be killed only by a certain material or spell. Quite amusing, though.
Also, if you've downloaded 0.15c already, you might want to re-download at least the raws. Turns out I missed a bug with great helm material sizes and a duplicate descriptor, which I thought it was best to fix before doing anything else. This is fully save-compatible, so you won't need to restart anything, just put the new item_armor_narhiril and descriptor_shape_easter_egg files in your save raws. I apologize for the inconvenience.
Post by: Pan on February 20, 2012, 01:25:35 am
How are you planning on creating constructs, by the way? I haven't seen anything in the new version for anything of that sort.
Post by: Imp on February 20, 2012, 01:59:45 am
I'm embarking, I'm looking at the options, and then I see something that.... well. Here's the conversation I'm envisioning over this product.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Cough. This... IS a bug, right? I haven't gone manual- or raws-diving over this. Nor can I believe my eyes. We eat this like wheaties, right? And grow up big and strong? Or it's like.... snake-oil, right? It claims to be this but is really trash?
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: SirAaronIII on February 20, 2012, 03:35:27 am
Post by: simonthedwarf on February 20, 2012, 03:52:43 am
Post by: Imp on February 20, 2012, 04:28:17 am
A peek at Ironhand's Graphics thread made me think, well, it needs raws pasted over! That wasn't the answer either, no change. Would have been surprised if that had worked - is newly made game and all.
My font's all.... thin and squiggly!
My microcline looks edible!
The critters and miners look like I'd expect them to. How do I fix? I miss the old look - is this a new version issue and incurable for now?
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Pan on February 20, 2012, 04:29:22 am
Nahir you should take some of the grievances head on with the most recent version, i would suggest you make sure that your mod is not being filled with animalmen and giant versions of animals, maybe reduce the frequency of those because in 32.02 they are really spammy
True that. But then again, that is vanilla.
Post by: narhiril on February 20, 2012, 04:57:51 am
Am playing with the newest release of 15.c, and it looks... icky. Even the font's different. Aha I thought - there's something wrong in the init! But the init settings for this game look exactly like I'm used to playing with.
A peek at Ironhand's Graphics thread made me think, well, it needs raws pasted over! That wasn't the answer either, no change. Would have been surprised if that had worked - is newly made game and all.
My font's all.... thin and squiggly!
My microcline looks edible!
The critters and miners look like I'd expect them to. How do I fix? I miss the old look - is this a new version issue and incurable for now?Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Wow, ok, yeah, something is wrong here. My guess is that something got screwed up over the jump from 0.34.01 to 0.34.02 with the tile numbers. I'll go fiddle around with the new build from Ironhand to see if I can't get that fixed and up again asap.
I'll address the other questions and suggestions tomorrow, right now I'm too tired to think straight.
EDIT: The pre-installed version should be working properly again. Cheers. ^_^
Post by: Ahra on February 20, 2012, 05:35:44 am
The devlog once mentioned poison-covered blowdarts, let me find it...is that hardcoded or can someone that understands the RAWs find something that makes that possible?
Ah, yesQuote from: 12/13/11 Toady DevlogDespite soaping out my insides, I managed to get a bit done. Leaders show up properly with their populations and I managed my sewer troubles. For some reason the animal people living in the sewers coated their blowdarts with honey bee venom before shooting me with them as I walked by the sewer outflow. I wonder why the townspeople tolerate them. Dungeon items and a few bugs remain in the dungeon issues list.
Post by: simonthedwarf on February 20, 2012, 10:21:40 am
Nahir you should take some of the grievances head on with the most recent version, i would suggest you make sure that your mod is not being filled with animalmen and giant versions of animals, maybe reduce the frequency of those because in 32.02 they are really spammy
True that. But then again, that is vanilla.
last version of this mod I played the only noticable diff to local wildlife is the pigeons, most of the easter egg and the new creatures simply do not show up, (like damascus sentinels)
the siegers and thieves work 100% except that anything lower-tiered than voidwalkers seem to have a very limited window of showing up before being replaced by these (like lizardmen)
im just saying, if she doesnt want her mod stuff to drown in animal men and giant this and giant that she should look into it, wheres the fun in alll the new stuff she has modded in if you dont get to see it
Post by: narhiril on February 20, 2012, 10:55:25 am
Nahir you should take some of the grievances head on with the most recent version, i would suggest you make sure that your mod is not being filled with animalmen and giant versions of animals, maybe reduce the frequency of those because in 32.02 they are really spammy
True that. But then again, that is vanilla.
last version of this mod I played the only noticable diff to local wildlife is the pigeons, most of the easter egg and the new creatures simply do not show up, (like damascus sentinels)
the siegers and thieves work 100% except that anything lower-tiered than voidwalkers seem to have a very limited window of showing up before being replaced by these (like lizardmen)
im just saying, if she doesnt want her mod stuff to drown in animal men and giant this and giant that she should look into it, wheres the fun in alll the new stuff she has modded in if you dont get to see it
I went ahead and did some world gens and population dumps. LFR is indeed working, but the worlds are, as you say, drowning in animal men and giant creatures. I'll playtest it a bit more, but I might end up having to play with population numbers and/or the c_variation_default file. It's a little irritating to see my art be smothered in mosquitoes.
Post by: SalmonGod on February 20, 2012, 11:04:43 am
I do think Dwarf Fortress should have a ton of creatures built into it, but only make use of a portion of them in each worldgen.
Post by: simonthedwarf on February 20, 2012, 11:47:10 am
Post by: Stirk on February 20, 2012, 12:02:06 pm
Post by: Imp on February 20, 2012, 12:25:41 pm
Oh hia. I have been playing this mod for a little while and noticed an interesting bug for the new release. Every so often, a migrant will come and just sit where he enters. They are usually called "Traders" and can be attacked if I wanted to. They have the same sprite as the non-fortress dwarves, interesting enough. Anyone know what is going on?
This one's a DF issue, not a LoFR buggy. http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=5098&nbn=3#bugnotes
Post by: Stirk on February 20, 2012, 12:36:44 pm
Quote
This one's a DF issue, not a LoFR buggy. http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=5098&nbn=3#bugnotes
Many thanks, but I neglected to mention this also happened with a weapon prodigy, so I had assumed it had something to do with this mod. Maybe the trader just happened to be it, I suppose.
Post by: narhiril on February 20, 2012, 01:31:44 pm
I couldn't help myself. Playing with the idea of the tech tree leading eventually (in full Sid Meyer's 'Alpha Centauri' style argh-we-never-wanted-this, of course) to "dwarves in space" got to me. (doesn't matter if anything like that ever happens. Once my imagination gets in gear, it's then really easy to get my attention, and then I'm usually pretty happy with whatever I do get). I'm enjoying the beginnings of the newest release at last.
I'm embarking, I'm looking at the options, and then I see something that.... well. Here's the conversation I'm envisioning over this product.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Cough. This... IS a bug, right? I haven't gone manual- or raws-diving over this. Nor can I believe my eyes. We eat this like wheaties, right? And grow up big and strong? Or it's like.... snake-oil, right? It claims to be this but is really trash?Spoiler (click to show/hide)
The authenticity of that item is questionable. :)
It is a rare product of a new reaction at the temple of fire. It exists to be destroyed, and there's even an automatic reaction at the temple to get rid of it when it shows up. The reason it exists at all is because of problems with the "stone of enlightenment" (unseen, harmless byproduct of some training reactions, adding additional experience) crashing the game when I tried to produce a bunch of them at once.
Post by: nukularpower on February 20, 2012, 01:39:22 pm
I went ahead and did some world gens and population dumps. LFR is indeed working, but the worlds are, as you say, drowning in animal men and giant creatures. I'll playtest it a bit more, but I might end up having to play with population numbers and/or the c_variation_default file. It's a little irritating to see my art be smothered in mosquitoes.
That's an issue with the current DF release, not LFR as such. In fact, one thing I can't stand about this version is all the stupid animalmen that Toady added for some reason. Cuz "birdmen" and "snakemen" just weren't enough, I guess.
Post by: narhiril on February 20, 2012, 01:46:58 pm
I went ahead and did some world gens and population dumps. LFR is indeed working, but the worlds are, as you say, drowning in animal men and giant creatures. I'll playtest it a bit more, but I might end up having to play with population numbers and/or the c_variation_default file. It's a little irritating to see my art be smothered in mosquitoes.
That's an issue with the current DF release, not LFR as such. In fact, one thing I can't stand about this version is all the stupid animalmen that Toady added for some reason. Cuz "birdmen" and "snakemen" just weren't enough, I guess.
I'm going to work on another "plug-in" component to get rid of most of those for whoever it bothers (myself included). I might leave "sperm whale men," though. ^_^
Post by: Imp on February 20, 2012, 02:17:59 pm
I went ahead and did some world gens and population dumps. LFR is indeed working, but the worlds are, as you say, drowning in animal men and giant creatures. I'll playtest it a bit more, but I might end up having to play with population numbers and/or the c_variation_default file. It's a little irritating to see my art be smothered in mosquitoes.
That's an issue with the current DF release, not LFR as such. In fact, one thing I can't stand about this version is all the stupid animalmen that Toady added for some reason. Cuz "birdmen" and "snakemen" just weren't enough, I guess.
I'm going to work on another "plug-in" component to get rid of most of those for whoever it bothers (myself included). I might leave "sperm whale men," though. ^_^
Is this component going to target both the 'giants' and the 'primitives'? If so - would you consider making it two components? Thing is... I like the occasional wandering animal-folk, I assume I can't butcher their corpses though (right, I've not gotten around to actually trying yet, but I figure they're sentients like the tigermen that I had known a little about and thus a 'waste of cage space').
But I like the giant animals. If I had the options, I'd want to make wandering animal people (of many types) extremely rare - but keep giant animals as a distinct possibility. To me the giants are just another of the many, many, many species I like to see on my maps...
Post by: simonthedwarf on February 20, 2012, 03:40:00 pm
Post by: Putnam on February 20, 2012, 05:34:10 pm
Code: [Select]
*** Error(s) finalizing the translation FRENCH
Unrecognized word token: ANUS
Unrecognized word token: BITCH
Unrecognized word token: CROTCH
Unrecognized word token: INCEST
Unrecognized word token: NUDE
Unrecognized word token: NUDITY
Unrecognized word token: PANDER
Unrecognized word token: PISS
Unrecognized word token: RAPE
Unrecognized word token: SLUT
Unrecognized word token: SMUT
Unrecognized word token: SPEW
Unrecognized word token: VOID_VERB
Unrecognized word token: WHORE
Unrecognized word token: INCONTINENT
Unrecognized word token: BUTTOCKetc.
Post by: Imp on February 20, 2012, 06:58:53 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I've selected the unit in the middle, whatever that is.
I can get used to this, surely. But is this how it's supposed to be?
Post by: SalmonGod on February 20, 2012, 07:28:05 pm
unsure if this is a LoFR-related issue or not. When I check my units screen, my 'highlit' unit is actually 'blacklit', which is making it kinda... blacked out. Like this:Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I've selected the unit in the middle, whatever that is.
I can get used to this, surely. But is this how it's supposed to be?
Same here.
Post by: narhiril on February 20, 2012, 08:09:16 pm
unsure if this is a LoFR-related issue or not. When I check my units screen, my 'highlit' unit is actually 'blacklit', which is making it kinda... blacked out. Like this:Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I've selected the unit in the middle, whatever that is.
I can get used to this, surely. But is this how it's supposed to be?
Same here.
This is an issue with TrueType, which you can turn off in the init file.
The non-preinstalled ASCII copy of the mod still has a gigantic errorlog due to the untoward words not being brought back in it.Code: [Select]*** Error(s) finalizing the translation FRENCH
Unrecognized word token: ANUS
Unrecognized word token: BITCH
Unrecognized word token: CROTCH
Unrecognized word token: INCEST
Unrecognized word token: NUDE
Unrecognized word token: NUDITY
Unrecognized word token: PANDER
Unrecognized word token: PISS
Unrecognized word token: RAPE
Unrecognized word token: SLUT
Unrecognized word token: SMUT
Unrecognized word token: SPEW
Unrecognized word token: VOID_VERB
Unrecognized word token: WHORE
Unrecognized word token: INCONTINENT
Unrecognized word token: BUTTOCK
etc.
Ah yes, I replaced all of these words in the pre-installed version, but not in the raw-only one. Go ahead and grab the language_words file from this (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=100787.0) thread to fix those errors in the meantime.
Post by: Imp on February 20, 2012, 09:09:31 pm
I know the 'overabundant giant mosquitoes' issue that DF proper has/had is said to be fixed as of 34.02, but I just got 149 of them. LoFR 0.15c is based on that DF, so... is this a LoFR something or a DF something?
Post by: SalmonGod on February 20, 2012, 10:39:16 pm
This is an issue with TrueType, which you can turn off in the init file.
Actually, Truetype can be toggled with F12 now.
Post by: nukularpower on February 21, 2012, 12:02:05 am
I went ahead and did some world gens and population dumps. LFR is indeed working, but the worlds are, as you say, drowning in animal men and giant creatures. I'll playtest it a bit more, but I might end up having to play with population numbers and/or the c_variation_default file. It's a little irritating to see my art be smothered in mosquitoes.
That's an issue with the current DF release, not LFR as such. In fact, one thing I can't stand about this version is all the stupid animalmen that Toady added for some reason. Cuz "birdmen" and "snakemen" just weren't enough, I guess.
I'm going to work on another "plug-in" component to get rid of most of those for whoever it bothers (myself included). I might leave "sperm whale men," though. ^_^
Just speaking for myself, I would greatly appreciate such a plug-in. Even better if it just set them back to how they were in 31.25, where there were a few types of "men", but not.. every type, if you know what I mean.
I'm getting weird graphics with the Ironhand version. Walls look like chests and so on. Is it just my install or is anyone else? Guessing the tileset isn't fully updated yet, but might as well ask.
Post by: Imp on February 21, 2012, 12:20:58 am
I'm getting weird graphics with the Ironhand version. Walls look like chests and so on. Is it just my install or is anyone else? Guessing the tileset isn't fully updated yet, but might as well ask.
Was addressed about 20 hours ago, so if your download was before then, need to grab the fix. Here's the conversation about that - http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=84186.msg3011349#msg3011349
Post by: Imp on February 21, 2012, 12:36:49 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Pan on February 21, 2012, 01:02:24 am
Really enjoying the new images of gods but they seem a bit recursive, at least on artifacts. Then again, since these are artifacts and this is LoFR with its ever so many Easter Eggs, maybe that's intended...Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Blasphemy! You should have underlined Armok in red and used purple brackets over Visthel!
But really, I often yearn for decorations to be about my fortress' history as well. But it's always some stupid historical person breaking someone's finger on my site. So really, this isn't so bad.
Post by: narhiril on February 21, 2012, 02:22:35 am
Post by: BigFatStupidHead on February 21, 2012, 02:38:46 am
That's an issue with the current DF release, not LFR as such. In fact, one thing I can't stand about this version is all the stupid animalmen that Toady added for some reason. Cuz "birdmen" and "snakemen" just weren't enough, I guess.
I'm going to work on another "plug-in" component to get rid of most of those for whoever it bothers (myself included). I might leave "sperm whale men," though. ^_^
Check out this (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=101096.msg0#new) for Sphalerite's fix for .01. Should stop you from drowning in the animal folk, and let Narhiril's work shine through.
Post by: nukularpower on February 21, 2012, 02:49:21 am
Check out this (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=101096.msg0#new) for Sphalerite's fix for .01. Should stop you from drowning in the animal folk, and let Narhiril's work shine through.
I like that idea, but I would rather not have giant animals messed with - I do enjoy them, as at least you can usually capture and train them. Unlike the totally useless animalmen.
Also, thanks Imp for the link. Wonder if my current fort will work if I just copy it into the fixed version.
Post by: simonthedwarf on February 21, 2012, 07:49:21 am
I dont know if you have read this thread, but it seems useful for what I'm about to suggest:
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=101538.0 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=101538.0)
Suggestion #1
Consider making a ritual where you can turn Dwarves into Golems or stone dwarves. They would similar to vampires stop gaining skills, gain attributes and be unable to recover any damage in case of stone dwarves or golems. But they would still be able to do the same jobs they did when living. That's one of the discoveries of note from that thread that you can make them turn into a tame pet creature that can still do old jobs.
Perhaps you could even go "Gnome" and make a sort of Dwarf Dreadnought, where the wounded dwarf is added into some elaborate magical life support system. The inner layer would be flesh representing the dwarf but the other layer would be some really hard but not really repairable or recoverable tissue.
The tech or ritual requirements should be difficult to attain of course, perhaps be based on some rare creature drop or some highly unlikely reaction product that's not overly spammable (requires scarce commodity to do).
Suggestion #2
Perhaps add in a hostile monster that by syndrome makes Dwaves posessed and turn on their own kind as a lategame challenge or as a very dangerous random enemy. Sorta just adds tags like [HATES_LIFE] [CRAZED] and so on without really changing the base creature, just kind of making it defect from your faction. Perhaps on a timer so that a particulary valuable dwarf could be saved by avoiding maiming or killing him for the duration.
Suggestion #3
The hypnotizer! Adds a weapon or trap etc that makes enemies friendly to your Civ for a duration, kinda like the reverse of suggestion #2.
Again thanks for your mod.
Post by: narhiril on February 21, 2012, 01:13:34 pm
The third suggestion, though, is most interesting. Perhaps I'll use that in the ritual tree. :)
Post by: Imp on February 21, 2012, 03:12:52 pm
Suggestion #3
The hypnotizer! Adds a weapon or trap etc that makes enemies friendly to your Civ for a duration, kinda like the reverse of suggestion #2.
Again thanks for your mod.
The third suggestion, though, is most interesting. Perhaps I'll use that in the ritual tree. :)
This is going to be SO much fun to play with! 8)
Post by: Putnam on February 21, 2012, 08:01:20 pm
Post by: narhiril on February 22, 2012, 12:41:15 am
Is it okay if I use the physical properties of your mithril for my Dragon Ball mod?
Go for it. :)
----
In other news... I've finally had a day to sit down and play, so I'm getting a good idea of what needs a fix in 0.15d. For starters, the custom brew reactions don't work properly right now, but I guess that's what I get for using someone else's template without testing it first. Also, one of the prayers in the temple of fire is missing because its ID is wrong in the entity file. Finally... I think I am going to need to re-work the "powdered remnants" thing, since the clean reaction isn't working properly as is. In the meantime, if your temple of fire gets clogged up with 80 gazillion of those things, destroying the temple and re-building it will get rid of them.
Also, before anyone asks, the extra metal in the forge menu doesn't exist. It was something I accidentally left in the pre-installed copy from a test for a possible future feature. Don't go looking for it because you can't get it anywhere, and I'm not being all mysterious to get you to go look for it - it really isn't there.
Post by: narhiril on February 22, 2012, 11:13:02 am
What that means for you guys is that 0.15d gets a little delayed while I tear out my hair in frustration at this undocumented and completely arbitrary change.
Post by: Imp on February 22, 2012, 11:38:42 am
What that means for you guys is that 0.15d gets a little delayed while I tear out my hair in frustration at this undocumented and completely arbitrary change.
*Cheers narhiril on with the same enthusiastic delight usually reserved for watching unicorn foals take their first steps*
It'll be worth the wait to us, and surely worth the work to you. Can't express how much I enjoy this mod and what I imagine of its future!
Post by: Pan on February 22, 2012, 11:51:47 am
What that means for you guys is that 0.15d gets a little delayed while I tear out my hair in frustration at this undocumented and completely arbitrary change.
*Cheers narhiril on with the same enthusiastic delight usually reserved for watching unicorn foals take their first steps*
It'll be worth the wait to us, and surely worth the work to you. Can't express how much I enjoy this mod and what I imagine of its future!
New version. Everyone's probably getting used to new raws. Bug here or two, no problem.
Post by: narhiril on February 22, 2012, 12:00:43 pm
EDIT: Aaaaaaand fixed. I think. I hope.
Post by: Lupusater on February 22, 2012, 04:11:13 pm
Post by: SalmonGod on February 22, 2012, 04:21:19 pm
There are three now.
Just standing there.
Staring at me.
Forever.
Post by: narhiril on February 22, 2012, 04:29:36 pm
I'm having what appears to be a bug with non-fort dwarves labeled as "Trader" standing motionless on the edge of my map. At first there was just one, but every once in a while, a new one shows up in the same spot.
There are three now.
Just standing there.
Staring at me.
Forever.
This is actually a DF bug. Sorry, but I can't help with that.
I don't know if you've already fixed this, but you need to update your entity files with the new hammerer and the shapes of cut gems.
I have, but thanks for the heads up. Sometimes I overlook things like that.
I'm loading up a test build of 0.15d tonight, which will fix a handful of issues left over in 0.15c. Provided that all goes well, I should have a new version up by tomorrow. Here's the changelog as of right now.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Pan on February 22, 2012, 05:57:24 pm
Post by: narhiril on February 22, 2012, 06:41:05 pm
Will it be dangerous to perform the prayers for armor and weapon? It would suck to lose migrant high master weaponsmiths and armorsmiths...
Nope. Prayers don't ever have negative consequences - they are free, low-yield reactions. It's rituals and ceremonies you need to watch out for. The prayers at the temple of fire have a low chance of training weapon and armor smithing skills. If you don't have a good weapon or armor smith and you on't have a million copper lying around to train someone with, you can beg Zalkor for help. ;)
Post by: simonthedwarf on February 23, 2012, 12:45:14 am
Post by: Pan on February 23, 2012, 06:42:05 am
Post by: simonthedwarf on February 23, 2012, 10:33:52 am
Post by: narhiril on February 23, 2012, 05:38:01 pm
Spoiler: Though I did run into this... (click to show/hide)
The simplified clothing causes dwarves to constantly clean themselves. Over and over and over whenever they step on any contaminant. This causes my soap supplies to run out super fast, thus breaking the healthcare industry for me as well dwarves being inefficient for they constantly clean themselves instead of working.
I tweaked SC to include shoes now, so this shouldn't be an issue anymore. Thanks for the feedback. 8)
Post by: SalmonGod on February 23, 2012, 05:43:10 pm
Post by: Pan on February 23, 2012, 07:17:30 pm
EDIT: But it appears that the fact that only dwarves have shoes will fix that.
Post by: Imp on February 24, 2012, 01:58:58 am
Noticed that the v0.15d changelog says there are readme files for the optional components. I found a readme in the rare animal mod folder, but not in the simplified clothing folder.
Post by: narhiril on February 24, 2012, 03:17:35 am
Thanks again and again for the new releases that come again and again!
Noticed that the v0.15d changelog says there are readme files for the optional components. I found a readme in the rare animal mod folder, but not in the simplified clothing folder.
Ah, bugger, you're right, I must have dragged the wrong folder into the zip. The files all work, but I'll re-upload it correctly for future downloads.
Post by: simonthedwarf on February 24, 2012, 03:37:52 am
Also I killed some moroi for a sentinel core usable in the alchemy lab, what does this entail?
Post by: simonthedwarf on February 24, 2012, 04:12:34 am
Post by: simonthedwarf on February 24, 2012, 04:24:50 am
Post by: simonthedwarf on February 24, 2012, 04:29:24 am
Post by: Demiurge on February 24, 2012, 06:18:22 am
I have a question about clothes though, I really like the feature in Masterwork that removes most clothing from dwarves because it cleans up a ton of clutter. And having bought stuff from the merchants to melt down its just a chore to go through the stockpile list for armor etc to find the stuff I want to melt. Is there any way I can edit LFR to remove clothing in the same manner?
Edit: Nevermind it's one of the optionals included in the download *facepalm*
Post by: Man of Paper on February 24, 2012, 09:35:32 am
Post by: narhiril on February 24, 2012, 12:37:36 pm
also what is the world generation parametres LFR_NODEMON?
That's a parameter set I use to test certain hidden fun stuff. It gets rid of procedurally-generated demons, so you'll just see LFR creatures down there. It also has a fairly high volcano count. I thought with this release I'd roll it in for anyone who wants to play around with it as well.
Had a crash in my 0.15c fortress. Abandoned it. It seems like I get a lot more crashed in 34.02 than I got in 34.01. Not sure if I want to keep playing before the next update if forts keep crashing.
It appears that TrueType causes a crash when the text is too long to fit on the screen. This is a problem with enemies with long names (particularly their blood spatters), as well as a few other things. Turn TrueType off in the init file to resolve this. I know, TrueType is pretty, but it's a work in progress.
Post by: narhiril on February 24, 2012, 04:51:55 pm
Post by: Meph on February 24, 2012, 05:12:48 pm
When you breach the candy spire, only custom demons with a flier tag will be spawned. All non-fliers will only appear like normal wildlife after you survived the initial attack.
All creatures with an underground depths of 5:5 will ignore any POPULATION_NUMBER tags, and be "unlimited" I guess that means they never die out.
Anything you found out about 5:5 plants and layer-linked 5:5 civs ?
Post by: narhiril on February 24, 2012, 05:33:57 pm
After I read about you testing demons and such:
When you breach the candy spire, only custom demons with a flier tag will be spawned. All non-fliers will only appear like normal wildlife after you survived the initial attack.
All creatures with an underground depths of 5:5 will ignore any POPULATION_NUMBER tags, and be "unlimited" I guess that means they never die out.
Anything you found out about 5:5 plants and layer-linked 5:5 civs ?
Plants work, civs do not. Since there isn't any natural mud in hell, there won't be any plants down there, but they will start popping up once you breach it just like any other cavern layer.
The problem with civs is that subterranean animal people do not actually have biome tokens at all, since all of that seems to be controlled through [LAYER_LINKED]. If you give a creature [UNDERGROUND_DEPTH:5:5] and an entity with [LAYER_LINKED], their subterranean civilizations will appear scattered throughout the first three cavern levels while "wild" ones will appear down in hell as normal wildlife.
At least, this is what I've come to conclude so far, based on other people's research and a little of my own.
Post by: Meph on February 24, 2012, 05:42:17 pm
Crap, then my idea of easy cave-civ 1:1, medium cave-civ 2:2 and hard cave-civ 3:3 wont work. I wanted to make the caverns more distinctive.
btw: I have souls walking around my hell. High frequency, no flier tag. You kill all the demons, then mostly tormented souls arrive. They are easy to kill (to free them/sent them to oblivion) and drop nice little things upon death. found the idea in a very old mod, Circus Maximus. :)
Post by: narhiril on February 24, 2012, 05:46:28 pm
Ok, thanks.
Crap, then my idea of easy cave-civ 1:1, medium cave-civ 2:2 and hard cave-civ 3:3 wont work. I wanted to make the caverns more distinctive.
btw: I have souls walking around my hell. High frequency, no flier tag. You kill all the demons, then mostly tormented souls arrive. They are easy to kill (to free them/sent them to oblivion) and drop nice little things upon death. found the idea in a very old mod, Circus Maximus. :)
I'm taking this to PM so that I don't have to give away everything to everyone.
Post by: SirAaronIII on February 24, 2012, 06:17:54 pm
Quote
Circus MaximusI think that is quite possibly the best name for a mod that does stuff with HFS.
Post by: narhiril on February 24, 2012, 10:37:09 pm
What that means is that I probably will have to completely rearrange and partially re-write the creature entry for dwarves to define all of the bodies at caste level. Ugh.
Post by: narhiril on February 24, 2012, 11:25:15 pm
v0.15d (r3) is up. I promise, the damn things actually work this time, and they're tons of fun.
Post by: Pan on February 25, 2012, 01:21:14 am
Post by: nukularpower on February 25, 2012, 02:13:52 am
Revised again to finally fix the emberlight warriors. It took me an obscene amount of time for me to do something that would have taken me thirty seconds in 0.31, but that's the way it is, I suppose.
v0.15d (r3) is up. I promise, the damn things actually work this time, and they're tons of fun.
I'm curious about these guys - dont have time to play a new fort atm. Are they fire dwarves or something, I take it? Do they burn other dwarves/your fort?
Sound like a great way to actually get rid of the (IMO) ridiculous undeads in the new version, assuming the collateral damage isn't too heinous.
Post by: narhiril on February 25, 2012, 03:24:00 am
I'm curious about these guys - dont have time to play a new fort atm. Are they fire dwarves or something, I take it? Do they burn other dwarves/your fort?
Sound like a great way to actually get rid of the (IMO) ridiculous undeads in the new version, assuming the collateral damage isn't too heinous.
They're little bearded tornadoes of flame. Assuming you can control them, they're pretty fantastic against sieges, but try not to mix them with your other dwarves as they're a massive friendly fire risk. They're awesome versus undead, as they burn away the corpses. Also effective for breaching magma tubes and killing dragons and wyverns, since they're completely immune to fire. Other, future ritual units (water comes to mind) may also have fire immunity.
What of the Armok based religious creatures? Lacerators and Hands. Just something I'm wondering.
I'm trying to work the ritual tree from the ground up, starting with the minor gods, then moving towards minor servants of the more important gods, building up to major servants of the more important gods. Armok is at the top of the heap, so expect to maybe see lacerators in the upcoming tier 3, but hands will definitely be in tier 4.
Tier three of the ritual tree is going to involve temple construction and the blessings of the elemental Old Gods. The temple component foundry will be involved in the construction of these buildings, but the majority of the tier will be structured like so...
Temple of Water (Temanat, water and ice)
Temple of the Twins (Kerox and Lemox, earth and wind)
Temple of Light (Gisthel, light)
Temple of Shadow (Pharis, darkness)
Temple of the Orphan (Bartoth, lightning)
Temple of Origin (lesser units of Visthel, Armok, Pel, Voruk, and Kogut)
... that would round it out to 12 possible units, counting emberlights, assuming I can differentiate between their abilities enough to get that many (I probably can). Tier four would introduce an additional five or so, but that's further down the road. Where it's really going to get fun is balancing all of this. I have some FUN ideas in mind. ;)
Post by: Pan on February 25, 2012, 05:15:40 am
Post by: SirAaronIII on February 25, 2012, 11:46:13 am
Lookin' forward to the new temples and especially units.
Post by: Jilladilla on February 25, 2012, 02:09:09 pm
Impressive, Narhiril. Emberlights counter undead, lacerators and the Hand of Armok counter lesser races with their steel skin. Can emberlights shoot fireballs through fortifications? Can they breathe fire, or shoot fireballs, or both?
they have fireballs and firebreath, not sure if they can fire through fortifications
Post by: nukularpower on February 25, 2012, 06:22:57 pm
Post by: Carn on February 26, 2012, 11:55:36 am
Post by: astianax on February 26, 2012, 09:24:37 pm
i do like how worldgen seems to ignore the fact that emberlight warriors are 0% population but, at the same time, still keeps their numbers low. it feels like the ritual for their creation was performed just a handful of times in the world's history. and that actually makes sense
Post by: Palpatine on February 27, 2012, 01:30:05 am
Post by: narhiril on February 27, 2012, 02:50:35 am
I'm wondering how much good lacerators having steel skin will do, since we can pretty much cover our dwarves in steel armour or better. And in this mod, even if iron ore isn't present on the map, we can still acquire enough iron for military usage. So, since anything that punches through the armor will usually keep going right through their skin, this seems like a weak advantage compared to emberlight warriors and other potential transformations.
Don't worry, they've got more going for them than just that. ;)
Post by: Pan on February 27, 2012, 04:53:25 am
So, what to expect for the next version?
Post by: Undeadlord on February 27, 2012, 02:55:36 pm
Any reason for this or is it a weird quirk?
Post by: trees on February 27, 2012, 03:06:26 pm
I am using the latest version of LFR and in my last game I am seeing TONS of children in my immigrant waves, like 10:1 ratios. My fort is 140 dwarfs now and 60 of them are children.
It's a quirk of the .34, not LFR. Entire historical families will migrate now, so you'll get a lot more children than you used to. Setting the first number of BABY_CHILD_CAP in d_init to 30 or so will cap the amount of children there.
Post by: narhiril on February 27, 2012, 03:07:45 pm
I am using the latest version of LFR and in my last game I am seeing TONS of children in my immigrant waves, like 10:1 ratios. My fort is 140 dwarfs now and 60 of them are children.
Any reason for this or is it a weird quirk?
Open up your d_init file. The token [BABY_CHILD_CAP:100:1000] is what you're looking for. I just used the default setting.
Post by: Undeadlord on February 27, 2012, 03:19:34 pm
Thanks for the fix all, I will take full advantage of it!
Post by: Pan on February 28, 2012, 03:19:38 am
I am using the latest version of LFR and in my last game I am seeing TONS of children in my immigrant waves, like 10:1 ratios. My fort is 140 dwarfs now and 60 of them are children.
Any reason for this or is it a weird quirk?
Open up your d_init file. The token [BABY_CHILD_CAP:100:1000] is what you're looking for. I just used the default setting.
What would you change from here to change the children number?
Post by: Imp on February 28, 2012, 03:41:34 am
What would you change from here to change the children number?
It's total children or percent of total pop, like this: [BABY_CHILD_CAP:TOTAL:PERCENT], so if you wanted no more than 20 children and no more than 10% of your population (so if you had more than 200 dwarves, you'd still have just 20), you would use [BABY_CHILD_CAP:20:10]
Note that this does NOTHING about immigrant children, pregnancies that existed before the pop limit was hit, or pregancies that existed in immigrant women, but while the number of children on your map exceeds the total or percent limit that you've set, there will be no new dwarven pregancies created directly on your map.
Post by: groffen on February 28, 2012, 10:16:32 am
Other question: how does reactive platemail stack with other armors? Can you wear a chain shirt with it? I finally made some last night, but didn't get a chance to test.
Also thanks to narhiril - started trying out the mod with 34.02 and greatly enjoying it so far.
Post by: Jilladilla on February 28, 2012, 04:19:46 pm
also hardine is very, very, VERY heavy (dwarves with reactive plate won't be able to chase down much of anything...)
Post by: Pan on February 29, 2012, 04:54:23 am
Post by: narhiril on February 29, 2012, 10:11:56 am
Will LoFR be compatible for the newest version?
Yes. I just haven't gotten around to uploading a new packaged version yet. I'll be working on that this morning.
EDIT: So I go to upload the new version to find that a new version of DF has been released while I was updating it. Oh bittersweet joy! I'm currently working on incorporating that into the release, which should be done within an hour or two.
Post by: narhiril on February 29, 2012, 11:58:11 am
Enjoy ;)
Post by: Man of Paper on February 29, 2012, 01:12:07 pm
EDIT: I'm actually having a bad problem genning worlds. I'll keep trying, but I can't even get through a standard gen without crashing. I still think you're a wizard though.
Post by: Mobotium on March 01, 2012, 02:10:15 pm
I ask cause it would be pretty cool for a "special" tech tree to be hidden away, only to be discovered when a random stoneworker creates a strange mechanism that, when installed in a forge, upgrades the metal smelted in it. Or something like that anyways.
Post by: Stirk on March 01, 2012, 05:58:46 pm
Quote
Hey, I got a question: what exactly is necessary for special weapons/armor that only appears through moods? Does it require the dwarves to have access to the reaction? the weapons? the buildings were it's made? Also, is it possible to make artifact-only variants of other things, such as crafts?
Basically special weapons/armor are made the same as normal mood weapons/armor, a dwarf with high metalsmithing rates takes over a forge and makes one, the same as he would a normal battle axe or sword. Nothing except the normal mood things are necessary. Just the same as a normal mood, besides the end product.
Yes, it is possible to make other things, mostly cloths. I have had a ton of dwarves make hats, probably just my play stile or something. Just look on the equip screen for a full thing of thing, everything from "Top hats" to "Cute French Maid Outfits".
Post by: Jilladilla on March 01, 2012, 06:01:14 pm
Hey, I got a question: what exactly is necessary for special weapons/armor that only appears through moods? Does it require the dwarves to have access to the reaction? the weapons? the buildings were it's made? Also, is it possible to make artifact-only variants of other things, such as crafts?
I ask cause it would be pretty cool for a "special" tech tree to be hidden away, only to be discovered when a random stoneworker creates a strange mechanism that, when installed in a forge, upgrades the metal smelted in it. Or something like that anyways.
i believe the weapons concepts lab was implemented because moods very rarely produce an item you normally cannot produce, so it's probably possible to implement that but it would almost NEVER be used...
Post by: narhiril on March 02, 2012, 10:21:04 am
Hey, I got a question: what exactly is necessary for special weapons/armor that only appears through moods? Does it require the dwarves to have access to the reaction? the weapons? the buildings were it's made? Also, is it possible to make artifact-only variants of other things, such as crafts?
I ask cause it would be pretty cool for a "special" tech tree to be hidden away, only to be discovered when a random stoneworker creates a strange mechanism that, when installed in a forge, upgrades the metal smelted in it. Or something like that anyways.
i believe the weapons concepts lab was implemented because moods very rarely produce an item you normally cannot produce, so it's probably possible to implement that but it would almost NEVER be used...
I've found that this is only true for weapons. Dwarves will only produce a non-permitted weapon if they happen to have a preference for that particular weapon (rare) - this is likely a hard-coded safeguard against dwarves making weapons that are too big to use in vanilla. Funnily enough, this safeguard does not work for anything else - artifact bow, armor, and clothing types are all randomly selected with no regard for entity permissions.
I get artifact armor, clothing, and bows all the time that are not normally produced by the dwarves. I got an artifact spiked mail shirt the other day, as well as a tower-cap spring-loaded bayonet crossbow (which was like... thanks, I guess?) and a few articles of clothing in my most recent fort. Someone a while back mentioned an adamantine reactive chest plate, though I've only ever been lucky enough in testing to get a steel one. The fungiwood void energy projector was a real gem.
I do have a few screenshots, as proof that it actually does happen, but it is significantly more common to get exotic armor, bows, and clothing than it is to get weapons. You are correct, though: this is why the weapons concept lab was added.
Spoiler: Weapon (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Armor (click to show/hide)
If you get lucky enough to nab a runecloak, give it a spin and tell me what you think. It's a prototype for the workings of tier four of the tech tree's "upgraded armor" concept.
Post by: Jilladilla on March 02, 2012, 11:35:22 am
well at least my mistake was corrected
Post by: Pan on March 02, 2012, 11:42:03 am
1. Take unskilled peasants
2. Make them churn out weaponsmithing related activities (making trap components and ammunition)
3. Weaponsmith skills reach a point so that when they get a mood, it's a weaponsmith mood.
4. Profit.
This is good because you not only get artifact weapons of immense value and prowess, but also cheap bolts. Masterwork bolts cause unhappy thoughts when carried away on a retreating goblin's wound, or when you are mass dumping and atomsmashing stuff dumped from the battlefield.
Post by: narhiril on March 02, 2012, 11:49:48 am
Something I've always wanted to try:
1. Take unskilled peasants
2. Make them churn out weaponsmithing related activities (making trap components and ammunition)
3. Weaponsmith skills reach a point so that when they get a mood, it's a weaponsmith mood.
4. Profit.
This is good because you not only get artifact weapons of immense value and prowess, but also cheap bolts. Masterwork bolts cause unhappy thoughts when carried away on a retreating goblin's wound, or when you are mass dumping and atomsmashing stuff dumped from the battlefield.
Or when they're made of wood and your emberlight warriors light them on fire... Along with the dwarf that made them. To be fair, emberlight warriors light everything on fire. Expect future ritual units to play a lot more nicely with regular dwarves. Zalkor is more of a "burn it, then you can ask questions" type of god. You won't have to isolate Visthel or even Armok's servants from the rest of your military.
Post by: Jilladilla on March 02, 2012, 11:55:57 am
Or when they're made of wood and your emberlight warriors light them on fire... Along with the dwarf that made them. To be fair, emberlight warriors light everything on fire. Expect future ritual units to play a lot more nicely with regular dwarves. Zalkor is more of a "burn it, then you can ask questions" type of god. You won't have to isolate Visthel or even Armok's servants from the rest of your military.
but fire = !!FUN!!!
especially for those bog troll thieves that burnt to a crisp due to a massive wildfire they ignited with the help of a zinger (poor guy almost made it to the trade depot which ws acting as my wood stockpile at the time)
Post by: narhiril on March 02, 2012, 12:24:09 pm
Expected abilities (subject to change/balancing)
-Ability to clean contaminants from self at will.
-Ability to clean contaminants from others at will.
-Legendary swimmer skill.
-Fire and frost immunity. This means you can send them in with those emberlight nutjobs.
-Ability to fire ice spikes at enemies.
-Ability to breathe underwater.
Temanat's units will not pose a friendly fire risk to other dwarves.
I might even be able to set up a sort of "synergy' with Zalkor's units, where an ice spike lodged in a wound from one of Temanat's units is melted by Zalkor's flames and causes a syndrome. Admittedly, it's more work than just lighting them on fire, but it could be interesting, particularly versus otherwise fire-immune units.
Also, as I was not expecting the poll to be the sort of deadlock that it has proved to be, I'll be shifting some attention towards the framework for golems, throwing weapons, and armor upgrades later on. Maybe I can be ambitious and try to get a nice little parallel development thing going on here.
Post by: Di on March 02, 2012, 03:49:20 pm
I might even be able to set up a sort of "synergy' with Zalkor's units, where an ice spike lodged in a wound from one of Temanat's units is melted by Zalkor's flames and causes a syndrome.Excuse me, but am I correct to assume that you got SOLID_GLOBs to stick into enemies?
Post by: astianax on March 02, 2012, 06:35:39 pm
also, i'm *still* trying to get that emberlight warrior vampire to show up in my current fort. though i still dunno what i'm gonna do when she arrives...
the same with my general, who happens to be a goblin (from a civ we conquered about a century ago. and he worships the dwarf civ's god of fire)
Post by: Imp on March 02, 2012, 06:56:51 pm
i can only speak for myself, but i'm happy to hear that you're working on (at least trying) the parallel stuff. i know it was hard for me to pick whether i wanted to see the technical or ritual path fill up next
Very similar here. In fact, I was happy as I saw the voting stay mostly balanced... I bet if you had placed the poll with the options of Tech tree, Ritual path, or either/or whatever Narhiril feels like adding next so long as we get both when the time is right, you'd have an overwhelming percentage of either/or votes...
Both are awesome. I happened to vote for.... Ritual I think. Maybe. I deeply want both. I don't care in the slightest which one comes first or if they are both done at the same time. Or if pieces of them are done in any order.
Yes please, to the above, in any order, whenever convenient. Thanks!
I bet a lot of us feel similarly.
Post by: Xiaras on March 02, 2012, 07:05:48 pm
Post by: narhiril on March 02, 2012, 07:11:54 pm
First of all, love the mod. One thing I noticed with this last version is that some of the rock wall tiles look a bit wonky with the Ironhand graphics pack. (Using the crate-ish tile instead of the colored walls as normal.) Not sure if it's just me, though.
Which version are you using? Pre-installed or raw-only?
Post by: Xiaras on March 02, 2012, 07:13:49 pm
Post by: SalmonGod on March 02, 2012, 07:27:26 pm
Post by: narhiril on March 02, 2012, 07:37:35 pm
Pre-installed, actually. Should have mentioned that.
I've noticed the same with the latest pre-installed.
Download and install this (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=2617) to fix that issue (the init and d_init files are optional). I apologize, I overlooked this when packaging everything.
I'll go ahead and update the pre-installed version tonight to include that.
EDIT: DO NOT copy creature_standard from that upgrade link.
Post by: SalmonGod on March 02, 2012, 08:23:10 pm
Post by: Jilladilla on March 02, 2012, 09:38:35 pm
he isn't an emberlight warrior and isn't injured at all, he's been burning for a while... (clothes are in perfect condition too)
raws only download, stitched on to vanilla ironhand DF (was trying to work around graphics problems, that was before the fix tho...)
oh and all the other dwarves who were victems of the conflageration burnt, some survived but most died
Post by: narhiril on March 02, 2012, 10:40:23 pm
It was incredibly minor, and I hadn't even planned on saying anything about it. Appreciate the fix anyway :)
Turns out that fix actually made it worse, since I accidentally overwrote the creature_standard file with Ironhand's default one. It's fixed now (for real this time). If you're comfortable, the manual tells you what changes to make and where, but if not, just grab a fresh download.
Sorry guys, it's been a rough week.
i assume there's a bug in the latest version, I'm fairly certain that Dastot Footcrypts, the eternally burning dwarf, will agree.
he isn't an emberlight warrior and isn't injured at all, he's been burning for a while... (clothes are in perfect condition too)
raws only download, stitched on to vanilla ironhand DF (was trying to work around graphics problems, that was before the fix tho...)
oh and all the other dwarves who were victems of the conflageration burnt, some survived but most died
I haven't been able to reproduce this. As you said, everyone else seemed to burn just fine, no idea why that guy is still alive.
Post by: Pan on March 02, 2012, 10:53:23 pm
Really, I think that's a solution. Just don't let him get near anyone in the meantime. Or draft and order him into water? (then emberlight him, cuz the story telling potential here is golden!)
Just a thought, but I should think that since Emberlights are immune to the flames, they can safely perform the rituals and alchemy experiments that lights people on fire?
And, are you having some writer's block with what the water creatures are called? Or just not revealing it?
Post by: Imp on March 02, 2012, 11:38:32 pm
Temanat's units (as yet unnnamed)
And, are you having some writer's block with what the water creatures are called? Or just not revealing it?
Could it be that suggestions might be welcomed? I, ahh.... bolded the ones I liked better of this list.
Temanatees
Manatees
Purists
Purfectures (pronounced like pure-fectures)
Watered Ones
Wavewills
Clearcolds
Mistkisses
Dewbringers
Dustwashers
Post by: Jilladilla on March 02, 2012, 11:40:30 pm
and then i dogpiled the human merchants (well ONE of their guards) who is apparantly blessed by Armok and slashed them all (the sane ones) to death...
well hilarious ends are fun, and im happy my 1st tantrum spiral came with this mod... first fiery disaster too! (i havent manged to touch emberlights yet tho)
Post by: narhiril on March 02, 2012, 11:57:17 pm
And, are you having some writer's block with what the water creatures are called? Or just not revealing it?
The former. I've got them called "hydromancers" in the raws, but I'm not liking that name as I was planning to use it for a secret.
Imp's ideas have got me thinking, though. Much appreciated.
I've got them completely working in terms of physical attributes and abilities. The only thing left to do is the fun part - the interactions.
Post by: narhiril on March 03, 2012, 12:28:10 am
Expect screenshots of some tests
Also, I will be cleaning up the exiting abilities and perhaps adding another ability to emberlight warriors.
Spoiler: Image 1 (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Image 2 (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Image 3 (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Image 4 (click to show/hide)
Post by: Meph on March 03, 2012, 01:26:50 am
Anyway, looks good. But just wait till Fortress mode ;) Hope it will turn out allright.
Post by: narhiril on March 03, 2012, 01:29:22 am
You renamed blood to precious bodily fluids ? ^^
Anyway, looks good. But just wait till Fortress mode ;) Hope it will turn out allright.
Only for this caste. ;)
Precious bodily fluids. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1KvgtEnABY)
Go to 1:10.
Post by: Imp on March 03, 2012, 02:28:09 am
And these guys can't do friendly fire?
Ahh, That's like... not any ff to anyone friendly? Won't kill pets? Won't kill precious exotic warbeasts? Wont hurt the liaisons and traders?
This makes ME feel very abominably snowmanny myself!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JlVqfC8-UI
Post by: Pan on March 03, 2012, 04:32:24 am
What would a hailstorm do? That sounds like friendly fire issues. What if they work well with emberlight's flames, but freeze emberlights and normal dwarves to death?
Aren't manatees some sort of fat aquatic mammal?
Post by: Man of Paper on March 03, 2012, 03:58:26 pm
Post by: Jilladilla on March 03, 2012, 07:51:06 pm
I wonder how lacerators and Armok's hand are going to be able to top these. Steel skin sure sounds a bit shitty now...
in my opinion, hand's of armok sound a bit more of a caster than a fighter, perhaps they might have the ability to cause stuff to sponaneously bleed to death in a few seconds? (im just guessing here (no matter what tho this mod will remain awesome!))
Post by: Mithril Leaf on March 03, 2012, 08:10:04 pm
Post by: Pan on March 03, 2012, 08:15:51 pm
I wonder how lacerators and Armok's hand are going to be able to top these. Steel skin sure sounds a bit shitty now...
in my opinion, hand's of armok sound a bit more of a caster than a fighter, perhaps they might have the ability to cause stuff to sponaneously bleed to death in a few seconds? (im just guessing here (no matter what tho this mod will remain awesome!))
Fool! It was a lure question for narhiril to reveal more details! You maniac! You blew it all up! Damn you all to Armok! :'(
But yeah, HoAs definitely sound like something of a caster.
Sabre tooths are the way to go. Shame they take so long to breed.
Post by: Xiaras on March 03, 2012, 08:39:57 pm
Post by: narhiril on March 04, 2012, 12:04:49 am
Ooooh! I saw the Manatee in the spoiler 1 make only one hand gesture... and the Emberlight got hit over and over and over again! And the Manatee was free to keep fighting! This is.... this is.... oooh! I'm so glad you're working on this now! (course, I could get equally eager for other things, just this is this now's thing!)
And these guys can't do friendly fire?
Ahh, That's like... not any ff to anyone friendly? Won't kill pets? Won't kill precious exotic warbeasts? Wont hurt the liaisons and traders?
This makes ME feel very abominably snowmanny myself!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JlVqfC8-UI
Units of Temanat will be called "wavebreakers." Though, just for you, I might be bringing in a manatee reference or two. Here is a brief overview of their planned abilities.
Spoiler: Skills/spells (click to show/hide)
None of the skills of Temanat's units are a friendly fire risk, and wavebreakers can be safely mixed with war animals, regular troops, and emberlight warriors. Wavebreakers are also fireproof, can breathe underwater, and are naturally skilled swimmers.
I should also mention, since I think I left it out of the patch notes, that empyrean carbuncles will still cause the "flayed lungs" syndrome (blood cough) in rare animals and non-dwarven traders, but their really dangerous ability will no longer affect these units -I was able to split it from the breath attack using the new interaction system. This change is already present in the current version.
In addition to these abilities, emberlight warriors will be getting another skill called "mind burn," which causes severe pain to the skin of a single target for a moderate duration. It has the same cooldown as Zalkor's flames, the emberlight warrior's existing fire jet spell.
I wonder how lacerators and Armok's hand are going to be able to top these. Steel skin sure sounds a bit shitty now...
I'm just getting started. Trust me, they're going to kick ass.
Tonight I'll be working on the raws for the Temple of Water. If I get done with that, I'll be moving on to Bartoth's units - tempests.
Post by: Imp on March 04, 2012, 12:40:38 am
Units of Temanat will be called "wavebreakers." Though, just for you, I might be bringing in a manatee reference or two. Here is a brief overview of their planned abilities...
I cannot express my enthusiastic joy! So I will express a question instead - how, ahh.... eager are the Wavebreakers to use their
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
It had deadly dust, dear Breakers. Break that dust! I want every square centimeter of this cavern cleaned as only you can do it.
Urist, I don't know what just happened to you... Breakers! Make him as clean and true as he had ever been before!
I'd love to be able to assign their skill to tiles similarly to how smooth/engrave can be designated, and I'd also love to be able to tell them to attempt to use their skill on a dwarf because I think that dwarf needs it, regardless of the game's clues that there is anything contaminate on or about them.
Post by: narhiril on March 04, 2012, 12:45:23 am
Units of Temanat will be called "wavebreakers." Though, just for you, I might be bringing in a manatee reference or two. Here is a brief overview of their planned abilities...
I cannot express my enthusiastic joy! So I will express a question instead - how, ahh.... eager are the Wavebreakers to use theirskill/spell? And if I think a target needs/deserves/should be assigned their attention, will I be able to tell them this?Spoiler (click to show/hide)
It had deadly dust, dear Breakers. Break that dust! I want every square centimeter of this cavern cleaned as only you can do it.
Urist, I don't know what just happened to you... Breakers! Make him as clean and true as he had ever been before!
I'd love to be able to assign their skill to tiles similarly to how smooth/engrave can be designated, and I'd also love to be able to tell them to attempt to use their skill on a dwarf because I think that dwarf needs it, regardless of the game's clues that there is anything contaminate on or about them.
They won't clean tiles, but they are extremely good about cleaning anyone and everyone around them as soon as the cooldown expires on purify essence (which is often). Having a few wandering around your fortress and meeting areas will pretty much keep all of your dwarves squeaky clean, though they'll still need to clean up any spatters on the floor.
Post by: Imp on March 04, 2012, 01:57:46 am
Though I am amused, and they seem able to function just fine and all... when I first noticed it I was still thinking about Wavebreakers. Aquamarine is a nice, Wavebreaker-ish sort of color, no?
*Imp, quite filled with anticipation*
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
*edited to add* And another oddity...
Them necromancers have really strange and terrifying magic, now that I think about it.
Was late summer of the first year of play. High savagry embark, but neutral lands, though in range of a tower by civs screen.
Hide while you can, the dead walk!
It was... a Voidwalker Patriarch corpse. All by its lonesome, or else any companions it has are sneaky and secretive enough that a week after the voidwalker undead attacked I still don't know they are there.
I expected high losses, I've heard how strong undead are, and I know how skilled voidwalkers usually are.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Several things seem weird about this to me.
Are voidwalkers meant to be turned into walking corpses? They... don't corpse. Even this walking corpse could not be turned into a normal corpse, so.... I suppose if it's not a bug (or just not fixable) that for voidwalkers they get turned into walking corpses from some state of life, not death? I could handle that idea...
It seemed really weak. Nothing else touched it, and of course it didn't bleed, but the amputation of hand was almost instantaneous with its death.
Even undead, it wailed. However, the tiger caught in the wail seemed unaffected, or else the syndrome lasted a VERY short time compared to normal.
And neither the tiger nor anything else on the map appears to have gotten credit for the kill - both of my tigers are still unnamed and have no kill credits, and combat log of the walker shows nothing happening to it after it loses the hand.
Unsure if any of this is buggy, but it was weird enough (and scary enough) that I totally forgot about Wavebreakers for almost 15 minutes!
Post by: narhiril on March 04, 2012, 02:09:01 am
Unsure if this is a LFR bug or a DF bug, or even if it's totally unique to this one map. Genned a new newest LFR map. Noticed that all my dwarves, migrants and starting seven, have two sets of skin colors - and none of them have an eye color. As one of the sets of skin colors is 'aquamarine', I suspect that eyes got replaced by skin or something.
Though I am amused, and they seem able to function just fine and all... when I first noticed it I was still thinking about Wavebreakers. Aquamarine is a nice, Wavebreaker-ish sort of color, no?
*Imp, quite filled with anticipation*Spoiler (click to show/hide)
This is a LFR bug. I'm not sure exactly what was wrong but I've managed to re-work it in a way that fixes it for the next version.
Post by: Pan on March 04, 2012, 02:25:23 am
And yeah, the voidwalker issue there seems a tad strange as well.
Post by: Imp on March 04, 2012, 03:01:55 am
How did this bug appear in the first place? Dwarves with blue skins?
It's a syndrome related to contact with colloidal silver, apparently. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argyria http://abclocal.go.com/kfsn/story?section=news/local&id=5843725
http://www.rosemaryjacobs.com/argyria_photos_intro.html
:o
Post by: narhiril on March 04, 2012, 03:06:18 am
Here's my first crack at a custom curse...
Spoiler: Curse (click to show/hide)
Post by: Imp on March 04, 2012, 03:27:57 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: narhiril on March 04, 2012, 03:33:08 am
Another oddish bugish thingy (no idea if it's LFR or DF, but feel nervous offering bugs found in a modded game to the DF bugs list), horses (just horses?) appear to have heard that we like hooves, so they've offered us some hooves to go with our hooves, both right and in arrears:Spoiler (click to show/hide)
That's DF at work there. When used in decoration, crafting, etc., that redundant descriptor goes away.
Post by: Imp on March 04, 2012, 03:39:46 am
That's DF at work there. When used in decoration, crafting, etc., that redundant descriptor goes away.
Fantastic to know. Also, having just gotten my second wave of migrants, I semi-miraculously have... only one child. 11 immigrants total and 10 of them adults. Have you, ahh... done something to change the fertile flood, or is that DF's work too? Or just my silly luck having a grand old time?
Post by: SalmonGod on March 04, 2012, 04:40:20 am
Post by: Putnam on March 04, 2012, 04:59:11 am
Just started a new embark and there are shimmering tiles spread randomly all over the map. They change colors super rapidly and when I loo'k' at them, the name of the tile is flashing at the speed of light through what looks like all various gem types. I'm just wondering if this is some sort of easter egg or a glitch? It's an evil area with a volcano and prospect all shows there's a demon temple.
that sounds like duped raws
Post by: Stirk on March 04, 2012, 02:42:05 pm
"Ning Girethas has created Raltustem, a soap of Visthel bastion!"
.....?
Post by: Mobotium on March 04, 2012, 03:04:50 pm
Another interesting thing, I was in my fortress when an armorer finally got into a strange mood. For some reason, it grabbed Embrace bars instead of metal bars.... Metal soap?
"Ning Girethas has created Raltustem, a soap of Visthel bastion!"
.....?
I seriously want a screen of that.
Post by: narhiril on March 04, 2012, 03:14:07 pm
Another interesting thing, I was in my fortress when an armorer finally got into a strange mood. For some reason, it grabbed Embrace bars instead of metal bars.... Metal soap?
"Ning Girethas has created Raltustem, a soap of Visthel bastion!"
.....?
Yeah, I'm not sure why that's happening all of a sudden, but I have an idea of how to fix it. In the meantime, enjoy your soap shield?
Just started a new embark and there are shimmering tiles spread randomly all over the map. They change colors super rapidly and when I loo'k' at them, the name of the tile is flashing at the speed of light through what looks like all various gem types. I'm just wondering if this is some sort of easter egg or a glitch? It's an evil area with a volcano and prospect all shows there's a demon temple.
Pre-installed or raw only? And post your errorlog if applicable. I know grass tiles flash in evil biomes, but this sounds a little more complicated than that.
Post by: Mobotium on March 04, 2012, 03:55:52 pm
Im prety sure it was either save corruption, or one of my wierd, failed, early attempts at modding without reading any documentation. Try genning a new world, see if that fixes it. Check the error log too.
Post by: narhiril on March 04, 2012, 04:23:10 pm
-Fixed a typo with bayonet crossbow blueprints.
-Added custom secrets and curses.
-Added framework for additional creature developments.
-Revised description for exiled rift wardens.
-Revised graphic for exiled rift wardens.
-Added graphics for hellions.
-Added the temple of water and associated reactions.
-Added dwarven wavebreakers.
-Added "mind burn" ability to emberlight warriors.
-Lowered success rate for the prayer for celebration at the shrine of prosperity.
-Added exiled rift wardens to worldgen as rare megabeasts.
-Fixed an issue with Visthel's embrace that was causing it to be used by metalsmithing moods.
-Fixed an issue with dwarf caste descriptors.
Post by: SalmonGod on March 04, 2012, 06:25:46 pm
Pre-installed or raw only? And post your errorlog if applicable. I know grass tiles flash in evil biomes, but this sounds a little more complicated than that.
Pre-installed. No error log. I already scrapped it, anyway.
Post by: astianax on March 04, 2012, 06:42:12 pm
anway, seems i'm setting up a temple of darkness and the night in my current fort. tough i know that doesn't exist, yet, i'll work something out with statues and other decor. my first migrant wave (three couples) are all from a cult known as 'the invisible cult' and are all ardent worshipers of the god sod holerumors, god of night and darkness. he's cursed two vampires and one wereshrew in my 200 years of history. sounds like a fun guy to have a minor priesthood built around, while waiting to get to the 'real' stuffs of fire temples
...looking through the deity list, seems that my god of festivals is responsible for about half the dwarf vampires in the world. i sure wouldn't expect that from a party god....
Post by: Pan on March 04, 2012, 08:54:26 pm
Another interesting thing, I was in my fortress when an armorer finally got into a strange mood. For some reason, it grabbed Embrace bars instead of metal bars.... Metal soap?
"Ning Girethas has created Raltustem, a soap of Visthel bastion!"
.....?
It'd be worth seeing if this is a good shield, or just good for a display case.
Post by: narhiril on March 04, 2012, 10:55:43 pm
aw, the rift wardens show up next go 'round. my poor chief medical dwarf, who happens to be very fond of rift warden's essence
anway, seems i'm setting up a temple of darkness and the night in my current fort. tough i know that doesn't exist, yet, i'll work something out with statues and other decor. my first migrant wave (three couples) are all from a cult known as 'the invisible cult' and are all ardent worshipers of the god sod holerumors, god of night and darkness. he's cursed two vampires and one wereshrew in my 200 years of history. sounds like a fun guy to have a minor priesthood built around, while waiting to get to the 'real' stuffs of fire temples
...looking through the deity list, seems that my god of festivals is responsible for about half the dwarf vampires in the world. i sure wouldn't expect that from a party god....
Contrary to popular belief, exiled rift wardens CAN be killed, but they are some of the most powerful creatures currently in LFR. For this reason, they will not attack your fortress until you have reached an obscene level of wealth or a population of 150.
Post by: The_Wolfpack on March 04, 2012, 11:23:37 pm
Post by: thatkid on March 04, 2012, 11:38:21 pm
Hi, any idea on how to incorporate this into a linux version of DF and adding Ironhand.Just add the files to the raws?
Post by: Xiaras on March 05, 2012, 01:05:32 am
Post by: Pan on March 05, 2012, 01:07:56 am
Or stock pile the ingredients for emberlights closer, like you would for a butcher shop.
Post by: Xiaras on March 05, 2012, 01:23:51 am
Post by: narhiril on March 05, 2012, 01:24:33 am
So for some reason I can't get -any- of the Temple of Fire interactions to work, other than the free flux/whatever prayer. It's odd, because I have all the materials, but when I try to do something like make an emberlight (I think they're called) dwarf, it won't let me, and "Takes place at Temple of Fire" shows in red.
This is likely a burrow issue. Try creating a new burrow that encompasses both the temple and all of the required ingredients.
Post by: Xiaras on March 05, 2012, 01:51:34 am
Then my game crashed.
Post by: narhiril on March 05, 2012, 02:24:37 am
Hah, well, that could have gone better. First emberlight dwarf I send after a small goblin ambush misses several fireballs and burns down, well, everything.
Then my game crashed.
The only LFR-related crash that I know of is trying to view the description of a transformed dwarf, but this is a known issue throughout the modding community.
Post by: Pan on March 05, 2012, 03:18:57 am
Hah, well, that could have gone better. First emberlight dwarf I send after a small goblin ambush misses several fireballs and burns down, well, everything.
Then my game crashed.
The only LFR-related crash that I know of is trying to view the description of a transformed dwarf, but this is a known issue throughout the modding community.
What? So I cannot view the description and moods of my emberlights?
Also, I was reading the Masterwork mod back there. Seems like the golems there (custom creatures) can be drafted into the army, but still flee even with a kill order? Would this happen with Emberlights? If it does, maybe give them [LIKES_FIGHTING] or whatever?
Post by: narhiril on March 05, 2012, 11:37:54 am
Hah, well, that could have gone better. First emberlight dwarf I send after a small goblin ambush misses several fireballs and burns down, well, everything.
Then my game crashed.
The only LFR-related crash that I know of is trying to view the description of a transformed dwarf, but this is a known issue throughout the modding community.
Also, I was reading the Masterwork mod back there. Seems like the golems there (custom creatures) can be drafted into the army, but still flee even with a kill order? Would this happen with Emberlights? If it does, maybe give them [LIKES_FIGHTING] or whatever?
It won't happen with emberlights because emberlights are a caste of dwarf, whereas golems are a separate creature entirely. Emberlights (and wavebreakers, by the way) will behave like normal military units, except for their special abilities. I'd imagine adding [LIKES_FIGHTING] would make the golems attack. LFR will be getting its own "golems" of sorts in tech tree tiers four and five.
What? So I cannot view the description and moods of my emberlights?
I've gotten it to work a few times, but it's sporadic. This is a known issue. Toady has been saying that the next version supposedly fixes a lot of fortress mode crashes - hopefully it will fix this one as well. Unfortunately, this is one of the difficulties faced when modding the bleeding edge of new content. Toady does a fantastic job, but any issues with DF itself will be inherited by its mods.
If you'd like to monitor the current status of this problem, keep an eye out here (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=5349) for any updates.
Post by: narhiril on March 05, 2012, 01:46:10 pm
Post by: Dohon on March 05, 2012, 05:38:54 pm
Finished up the archaeology lab today - one of the most fun little side projects I've ever done for this. You will be able to unearth ruins and rubble while mining that can be examined for artifacts and precious commodities. The archaeology lab requires precision tools, so it's technically a tier one tech building - I've added small orichalcum clusters to the ruins as well because of this.
Lovin' this, narhiril!
Post by: Jilladilla on March 05, 2012, 07:24:43 pm
Post by: Meph on March 05, 2012, 08:33:13 pm
Quote
The only LFR-related crash that I know of is trying to view the description of a transformed dwarf, but this is a known issue throughout the modding community.
Had it, fixed it. My best guess is this: The color modifiers from the original creature conflict with the new color modifiers and crash the game, when you view the description. It not only shows the description, but also those modifiers... If you have normal eye/hair color, and emberlights have red/yellow ones for example, that might be the cause. I have about 15 transformations in my mod, none crashes.
Golems work as well. Likes fighting and prone to rage did the trick.
About the archeology: Sounds vaguely familiar. ;) Wonder how you set up your raws for that.
Any idea when your next release will be ?
Post by: narhiril on March 05, 2012, 10:44:28 pm
Post by: thatkid on March 05, 2012, 11:18:15 pm
Well, I just had a dwarven emberlight vampire migrate to my test fortress. What are the odds of that?I once stocked a lair full of vampire blood in waterskins, and then created a bunch of emberlight adventurers, vamp'd them, and then retired them just so that would happen. And it didn't work.
What is your seeecret?
Post by: trees on March 05, 2012, 11:34:07 pm
What is your seeecret?You'll have to retire them in a dwarven mountainhome for them to migrate. Their sites don't exist yet, but you can go to where one is located on the world map and you should be able to retire there.
Post by: Pan on March 05, 2012, 11:51:05 pm
please tell me i am not the only one who thought to use a drawbridge as a firing mechanism for zingers! (im happy i figured that out, im planning on making a battleship fortress! :D)
Huh? That works?
Well, I just had a dwarven emberlight vampire migrate to my test fortress. What are the odds of that?
Pretty low.. Are you sure it is not a bug? On this note, are Emberlights immune to magma? That'd be cool, sending in emberlight specialists to combat creatures in magma. (sadly, currently just magma crabs and the occasional imp.)
Post by: thatkid on March 05, 2012, 11:57:02 pm
I turned all Dwarf sites in Cities, and was retiring them there.What is your seeecret?You'll have to retire them in a dwarven mountainhome for them to migrate. Their sites don't exist yet, but you can go to where one is located on the world map and you should be able to retire there.
Not a n00b, yo. I know what's up.
Post by: astianax on March 06, 2012, 01:08:34 am
i'd noticed that the game seems to ignore the 0 population of rare castes. it still keeps them rare, at least, but it'll make a handful of them (well...the named ones, at least. i see one of my more famous goblin generals has 153 emberlight warrior kills in his 'other kills' list). i'd been sorta using the idea of them in lore, of course. i mean, our fort can't be the first one to try the emberlight ritual, so of course there'd be a handful wandering around...
Post by: Meph on March 06, 2012, 01:18:04 am
Post by: narhiril on March 06, 2012, 01:21:24 am
i'm curious about the emberlight warrior vampire, myself. anything special with him, other than...you know, being a vampire? i've got one of those in my worldgen, too, and been hoping she arrives in a migrant wave, but no luck so far.
i'd noticed that the game seems to ignore the 0 population of rare castes. it still keeps them rare, at least, but it'll make a handful of them (well...the named ones, at least. i see one of my more famous goblin generals has 153 emberlight warrior kills in his 'other kills' list). i'd been sorta using the idea of them in lore, of course. i mean, our fort can't be the first one to try the emberlight ritual, so of course there'd be a handful wandering around...
Well he helped me find a bug with mind burn. I knew something was wrong when he decided to attack a greater demon (150 z-levels away and with no line of sight or path) on his way back from the ash stockpile. And that's how I learned that the target letter in the interaction file has to match the target letter in the creature file >.>
Fortunately, that was an easy fix that I didn't need to re-gen for. Also, I ran into a goblin necromancer in legends with 1300 kills over a 225 year history. Not bad. I still haven't quite finished a few things, but the test is going pretty well so far.
Post by: Pan on March 06, 2012, 01:26:01 am
Pop Ratio 0 will cause some trouble, since they get assigned a default number. I settled on giving each caste an increase with the factor of *1000 and making the "should-not-appear-caste" 1.
Are you going to do this for Emberlights in future, Narhiril?
Also, a thought with wavebreakers. Can they breathe underwater?
Post by: Jilladilla on March 06, 2012, 01:39:37 am
please tell me i am not the only one who thought to use a drawbridge as a firing mechanism for zingers! (im happy i figured that out, im planning on making a battleship fortress! :D)
Huh? That works?
well drawbridges launch creatures on them when they're raised and well, fairly easy to figure out the rest (i was gonna tweak it so it would fire on the general area of my trade depot, in case of elves)
if you were talking about the battleship part, i did embark on the coast, with most of the embark being ocean, and as an added challange making the thing out of iron/steel/aluminum only, I SWEAR THIS WILL BE MY THIRD GREAT FORT! (ive abandoned many due to boredom)
Post by: narhiril on March 06, 2012, 01:47:02 am
Pop Ratio 0 will cause some trouble, since they get assigned a default number. I settled on giving each caste an increase with the factor of *1000 and making the "should-not-appear-caste" 1.
Are you going to do this for Emberlights in future, Narhiril?
Also, a thought with wavebreakers. Can they breathe underwater?
I'll continue to test it to see if it's alright in worldgen the way it is. If not, I'll make the necessary adjustments.
Also, wavebreakers have [AMPHIBIOUS], so they can breathe underwater.
Post by: Imp on March 06, 2012, 02:10:34 am
Current (running) changelog, subject to additions...
Finished up .... (more additions)
Narhiril! There's so much cool stuff coming in the next release, you actually have me more interested in playing that then the current ones, even though there's SO MUCH I know I've not yet found!
??? I feel disloyal to your past works :-X And... and.... I'm so excited about this new stuff to play with I barely care! :o
Three cheers for the new release, whenever it is released! :D
Post by: Pan on March 06, 2012, 03:40:08 am
Current (running) changelog, subject to additions...Finished up .... (more additions)
Narhiril! There's so much cool stuff coming in the next release, you actually have me more interested in playing that then the current ones, even though there's SO MUCH I know I've not yet found!
??? I feel disloyal to your past works :-X And... and.... I'm so excited about this new stuff to play with I barely care! :o
Three cheers for the new release, whenever it is released! :D
Heck, I've been holding out till the next version. I don't believe I've touched DF (much) in over 2 weeks.
Post by: narhiril on March 06, 2012, 04:09:23 am
Spoiler: Large image (click to show/hide)
So far, so good. Just need to give them a spin in fortress mode combat and see how the AI handles things. If it's anything like they were in arena mode, wavebreakers should be done.
Which I suppose brings me to my next question... gear up for a release, or keep going? I've got a laundry list of things I want to do next.
Post by: Pan on March 06, 2012, 04:18:56 am
Spoiler: Large image (click to show/hide)
So far, so good. Just need to give them a spin in fortress mode combat and see how the AI handles things. If it's anything like they were in arena mode, wavebreakers should be done.
Which I suppose brings me to my next question... gear up for a release, or keep going? I've got a laundry list of things I want to do next.
I don't see the hurt of releasing now. Release now, people report bugs, and you fix bugs and release new content the next time. The amount of content and bug fixes so far is enough to make one release. I'd say go ahead.
Post by: micelus on March 06, 2012, 04:48:15 am
Post by: TehNoob on March 06, 2012, 05:00:45 am
Ugh, I want to try the wavebreakers! I vote to gear up for a release.
Post by: Imp on March 06, 2012, 05:39:21 am
There's so MANY cool things coming that we know of (and surely more and more and more behind what we can clearly imagine we see now) that I can hardly stand it either way ;D
I don't think there can be 'too many releases'. I don't think you are anywhere close to the edge of offering 'too few releases'.
I don't think you could drive our collective desire to see what you have recently made to much of a higher pitch than you already have - then again, I can imagine things that might kick us into a greater longing, so maybe you are about to prove me wrong :P
Do what you do, Narhiril, and continue to do it with skill and artful tricksyness!
Post by: Jilladilla on March 06, 2012, 05:50:22 am
Do what you do, Narhiril, and continue to do it with skill and artful tricksyness!
i wholeheartedly agree with the above statement
Post by: Pan on March 06, 2012, 10:21:20 am
Post by: narhiril on March 06, 2012, 02:08:57 pm
Between college and work, my playtime's so limited... for me it almost doesn't matter when you release as long as it's before spring break in mid April ::)
My spring break is this coming week, so this version might not stay current for long. ;)
Post by: Imp on March 06, 2012, 02:30:31 pm
Between college and work, my playtime's so limited... for me it almost doesn't matter when you release as long as it's before spring break in mid April ::)
My spring break is this coming week, so this version might not stay current for long. ;)
Completely in character. We have come to expect such future delights from you, for we are spoiled and beloved!
Post by: narhiril on March 06, 2012, 03:34:45 pm
I'd like to boast that this is one of the most well-tested versions in recent memory, but I know that if I do, some glaringly obvious game-breaking bug will come up and force me to do a revision or two. So as usual, report any issues you find.
Post by: Imp on March 06, 2012, 04:17:24 pm
addition of a fair number of miscellaneous other goodies. *snicker*
Ahh, I've not yet seen you snicker... I can hardly contain my eager dread for this future forthcoming release some day!
Post by: Atlan on March 06, 2012, 05:47:47 pm
Post by: narhiril on March 06, 2012, 06:22:34 pm
A lot of you guys have been asking me about lacerators, so I guess I'll bite and give up a little more information about them.
Tier three of the ritual tree is going to have seven temples - six devoted to the elemental Old Gods (Kerox and Lemox share a temple) and one devoted equally to the primary Old Gods, from which tier four will build. I had planned to do the "Temple of Origins" last, as it was both the most complex and the most integral to future advancements, which means that you may not see Pel, Kogut, Voruk, Visthel, or Armok's units for a little while.
I'm not doing this to torment you guys, I'm just very committed to doing this right the first time. Armok being the primarch of the Old Gods, I want his units to be the crown jewel of tier three of the ritual tree. I want to attempt to tackle lacerators only after I have created and balanced all of the units beneath them. That being said, I have a boatload of ideas for their abilities - by far the least exciting of which is steel skin. Rest assured, you will not be disappointed to see them after wading through the rest of the ritual tree. I have more tools and ideas for creating their abilities now than ever before, and I may yet have more by the time they come around.
As for hands of Armok, I probably should not have even brought those up, as they're planned to be Armok's tier four ritual units, which is WAAAAAY down the road. I have an extremely sick idea for what I'm going to do for them, but I don't want to share it until I can be sure that it will work properly.
--
In the more immediate future, the next development mini-arc will be focused on the "Temple of the Twins," Kerox and Lemox, earth and air goddesses, and then the "Temple of the Orphan," dedicated to Bartoth, the god of lightning and unbound energy.
Units of Kerox will be able to manipulate the earth beneath themselves and their enemies. While they will have a rock-based projectile attack for good measure, expect them to function less like soldiers and more like a crowd control unit - not accumulating large numbers of kills on their own, but making a noticeable difference in combat efficiency of your forces. "Earth bind" will slow a large number of enemy units down by a fair amount, while "mark for burial" will make a single enemy almost entirely immobile. "Stone skin" will increase the toughness of nearby allies.
Lemox' units will focus almost entirely on buffing allies to compliment Kerox' units. "Tailwind" will boost the speed of nearby dwarves, while "headwind" will slow a single enemy. Units of Lemox will also be able to augment the agility of allies, and will be legendary dodgers and talented archers. They will also receive a ranged ability that can be fired from extreme range (though it won't be as powerful or as frequent as wavebreaker ice spells).
Bartoth's "tempests" are going to be a bit different in flavor, but more on them later. ;)
Post by: narhiril on March 06, 2012, 06:27:22 pm
Hrm. As I just found out, shale walls and floors are the exact same tile. This makes my shale fortress really difficult to see.
That's something from Ironhand's raws, so I'll make a note to mention it over there.
In the meantime, if you want a fix, pull up inorganic_stone_layer...
[INORGANIC:SHALE]
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:STONE_TEMPLATE]
[STATE_NAME_ADJ:ALL_SOLID:shale][DISPLAY_COLOR:0:0:1][TILE:130] <- change this number to 131
[SEDIMENTARY][SEDIMENTARY_OCEAN_SHALLOW]
[IS_STONE]
... No new world is required for this change.
Post by: Pan on March 07, 2012, 01:20:44 am
By the way, I just remembered that shields, whether made of Visthel soap or not, can't be penetrated, and the material is only modifying the amount of damage the shield bash does. Silly me.
Post by: Meph on March 07, 2012, 01:51:46 am
Quote
"Tailwind" will boost the speed of nearby dwarves, while "headwind" will slow a single enemy.
If you find a way to make them stop spamming "headwind" constantly, even at the same targets, and stop them spamming "tailwind" constantly on your dwarves, even the already boosted ones, please leave me a PM. You know about the problem with healers I have, and they were just a little test. Best of luck and skill with your interactions.
Post by: Imp on March 07, 2012, 02:53:54 am
Oooh, I wonder what these new units will be called. Imp! Do your thing with the creativity! :D
Aww, thanks! I am not so sure that these units are still unnamed, and for that matter, I wouldn't even be adverse to 'units of Kerox/Lemox' if that were chosen.
Still... maybe a list of possible names isn't out of place? Here's some free association:
For Those of Kerox:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
And for Those of Lemox:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: narhiril on March 07, 2012, 11:08:38 am
Spoiler: Don't get too excited, it's a ways away. (click to show/hide)
Also, I have devised a way for lizardman spies to hide themselves among migrant waves. This is a delightfully evil feature, so you'll get both a heads up and a way to counter this when it comes around. Those damnable lizards are getting craftier.
Post by: SalmonGod on March 07, 2012, 03:01:22 pm
Also, I have devised a way for lizardman spies to hide themselves among migrant waves. This is a delightfully evil feature, so you'll get both a heads up and a way to counter this when it comes around. Those damnable lizards are getting craftier.
.........
Ok.... you have to let us craft tin foil hats for our dwarves now.
Post by: Meph on March 07, 2012, 03:16:59 pm
Good to see that you are a more proficient interaction caster then I am. My resurrected creatures startet attacking people ^^
Post by: Pan on March 07, 2012, 05:43:45 pm
I'm so happy that this worked in testing that I'm going to go ahead and share it with you guys.Spoiler: Don't get too excited, it's a ways away. (click to show/hide)
Also, I have devised a way for lizardman spies to hide themselves among migrant waves. This is a delightfully evil feature, so you'll get both a heads up and a way to counter this when it comes around. Those damnable lizards are getting craftier.
Hm, what if the paragons die, and require a burial or memorial slabs? What if you memorialized and buried them? Can they still be revived? What if dismembered? Will they revive the severed arm separately from the body, then the body itself? Or will every bodypart create a new paragon?
Just some precautions.
Post by: narhiril on March 07, 2012, 06:50:26 pm
I'm so happy that this worked in testing that I'm going to go ahead and share it with you guys.Spoiler: Don't get too excited, it's a ways away. (click to show/hide)
Also, I have devised a way for lizardman spies to hide themselves among migrant waves. This is a delightfully evil feature, so you'll get both a heads up and a way to counter this when it comes around. Those damnable lizards are getting craftier.
Hm, what if the paragons die, and require a burial or memorial slabs? What if you memorialized and buried them? Can they still be revived? What if dismembered? Will they revive the severed arm separately from the body, then the body itself? Or will every bodypart create a new paragon?
Just some precautions.
I appreciate the concerns. Here's how it will work...
Dead paragons are revived using their corpse as the target. Since only one corpse is ever created, only one can be revived (the dismembered limbs stay as they were). If these limbs are re-animated by a necromancer, they will function as normal. Buried, memorialized? No problem. You just need the corpse. Preferably, you should try to keep it away from those emberlight nutcases.
Here's where it gets interesting. If an undead limb is healed by a healer, it will remain an undead limb, but will regenerate the rest of the body parts associated with it. Basically, it means that a paragon and a necromancer team can duplicate undead servants, so all I need to do here is restrict the target for the healing interaction so that it can't target undead. Paragons will not resurrect the undead using their heal interactions.
For technical reasons, paragon healing does not have any effect on emberlight warriors or wavebreakers - but I can balance things around this. The heal interaction works by transforming a dwarf into another creature momentarily (I've been using the will o' wisp, it seems appropriate) and then allowing them to revert back to their normal state, fully healed and very much alive. For a creature already under the effects of a transformation (i.e. emberlights), this has no effect, since only one transformation can take place at a time.
Now you may be thinking... but narhiril... if you can't heal or revive transformed creatures, how do paragons heal themselves? Fortunately, I've worked this out.
Emberlights and wavebreakers use body transformations because I needed to do this to change them physiologically (specifically to make them immune to fire). Paragons will just be regular dwarves, given a new name and abilities via syndrome that does not require a transformation. For this reason, they will be able to heal and resurrect. I have also taken the time to verify that syndromes persist through death, so a dead paragon will revive with all of its abilities intact.
It's a little eerie, actually, how well this is working out so far.
Post by: Stirk on March 07, 2012, 07:18:55 pm
It would be kind of interesting to make an invincible fort with a vampire who did the ceremony. Goblin attack, killing fifty somehow? Bring out the vampire, possibly right into the graveyard reviving everyone. Cave crocodiles uninizing and taking down your miners while your military is fighting the goblins? Take out the vampire. Someone died to a vampire attack when the vampire got out? Use the vampire. Emberlight warriors starting a fortress fire? Memorialize the dead and move on.
Another question is how this effects the kill counter. Does the kill count if they get revived again?
Post by: narhiril on March 07, 2012, 07:23:00 pm
I am personally interested in how the whole reviving thing would effect the dwarf's mood. Or more accurately, the mood of everyone else. How does a dwarf feel about a love one dieing and them coming back? Would the family still be sad, or would the mood be gone?
It would be kind of interesting to make an invincible fort with a vampire who did the ceremony. Goblin attack, killing fifty somehow? Bring out the vampire, possibly right into the graveyard reviving everyone. Cave crocodiles uninizing and taking down your miners while your military is fighting the goblins? Take out the vampire. Someone died to a vampire attack when the vampire got out? Use the vampire. Emberlight warriors starting a fortress fire? Memorialize the dead and move on.
Another question is how this effects the kill counter. Does the kill count if they get revived again?
I honestly don't know, as I've not tried this interaction in fortress mode yet. This calls for some !!SCIENCE!!
Post by: o_O[WTFace] on March 07, 2012, 08:14:27 pm
I had no idea the interactions were powerful enough to handle stuff like this. :D
Post by: Meph on March 07, 2012, 09:02:19 pm
Post by: Putnam on March 07, 2012, 09:31:28 pm
Also, I have devised a way for lizardman spies to hide themselves among migrant waves.
Wha? How? I can't even imagine the method through which this would be done.
Post by: SalmonGod on March 07, 2012, 10:09:20 pm
Also, I have devised a way for lizardman spies to hide themselves among migrant waves.
Wha? How? I can't even imagine the method through which this would be done.
I just think it's hilarious that she chose to give this ability to the lizard people :P
If I ever find one of these things infiltrating a fort, I'll seriously mod in tin foil hats myself if I have to, and make them required uniform for the whole fortress.
Post by: Courtesy Arloban on March 07, 2012, 10:15:03 pm
Post by: Pan on March 07, 2012, 10:15:35 pm
Also, I have devised a way for lizardman spies to hide themselves among migrant waves.
Wha? How? I can't even imagine the method through which this would be done.
Indeed, I am also pretty confused by this. And besides, strange new 34.05 interactions aside, how does this even work lore-wise? Pretending to be leper dwarves?
As for the buffs and such for the units of the Twins and Kerox (guys with all the buffs), would they constantly rebuff buffed creatures? Also, will the healer units specifically target injured people instead of spamming this on nearby dwarves whenever the cooldown ends? Apologies I don't really know much about these new interactions.
And a question: Will there be any soldiers who can spew webs? I'd like to capture voidwalkers in cage traps (with ease) without heavily injuring them through a fall or cave in.
Post by: Imp on March 08, 2012, 03:46:01 am
Have next to no time to touch it, but still very pleased with it.
Had a short chunk of time this eve to toy with the newly improved toy.
Spotted two new oddities in the supplies from the parent civ (one's not so odd, but the other makes up for it).
Under bars both the somewhat familiar (I've actually never used it yet) Visthel's embrace and the not mentioned in change log or manual 'dwarven alchemical remedy' are available, each for 25 units apiece. I feel totally spoiled by the 'dar' and imagine that it will cure or reduce in severity illnesses (like the syndromes alchemists can catch)
Post by: narhiril on March 08, 2012, 02:09:57 pm
Mmm. So happy this is out.
Have next to no time to touch it, but still very pleased with it.
Had a short chunk of time this eve to toy with the newly improved toy.
Spotted two new oddities in the supplies from the parent civ (one's not so odd, but the other makes up for it).
Under bars both the somewhat familiar (I've actually never used it yet) Visthel's embrace and the not mentioned in change log or manual 'dwarven alchemical remedy' are available, each for 25 units apiece. I feel totally spoiled by the 'dar' and imagine that it will cure or reduce in severity illnesses (like the syndromes alchemists can catch)
It's a soap that's there to be imported, since you couldn't import soap before. :)
It didn't make the patch notes because it was a rare byproduct of an advanced alchemy experiment that I hadn't fully tested. It wasn't originally supposed to be importable, but I kind of like the way it turned out, so I'm sticking to that.
Also, I have devised a way for lizardman spies to hide themselves among migrant waves.
Wha? How? I can't even imagine the method through which this would be done.
Indeed, I am also pretty confused by this. And besides, strange new 34.05 interactions aside, how does this even work lore-wise? Pretending to be leper dwarves?
As for the buffs and such for the units of the Twins and Kerox (guys with all the buffs), would they constantly rebuff buffed creatures? Also, will the healer units specifically target injured people instead of spamming this on nearby dwarves whenever the cooldown ends? Apologies I don't really know much about these new interactions.
And a question: Will there be any soldiers who can spew webs? I'd like to capture voidwalkers in cage traps (with ease) without heavily injuring them through a fall or cave in.
Lizardman spies are masters of disguise and illusions. On the technical side, it works in a similar way as a vampirism curse, except very heavily modified. In legends mode, you will periodically see "(some new god) smote (some defiler dwarf), allowing an opportunity for a lizardman spy to take his place." Technically speaking, it's still a dwarf, but it has "lizardman spy" appended to its name (and then hidden), and it can immigrate to your fortress. Once there, it will pull levers and empty cages at random (MISCHIEVOUS tag).
In order to counter it, Pel's lesser servants will have an ability called "expose spy" that they will cast if they see a lizardman spy, which turns them into a berserk lizardman, "exposing" their disguise. Ultimately you'll probably have Pel and Armok's servants lined up screening migrants as they enter your fortress, but a lizardman spy can cause some real damage before you unlock those if you're not paying close attention - which is how the lizardmen are supposed to work, through sabotage and subterfuge. Admittedly, this is pretty elaborate, and I'll need to test it very thoroughly before I can speak for the end result, but it works well enough in theory to get a saboteur past your outer defenses long before the DF army arc comes around.
There aren't currently any plans for web dwarves, but tempests of Bartoth will be able to cast a wide-area, short-duration paralyze spell that should have a similar effect. Buffs and debuffs are what I've spent a lot of time recently working on to structure them so that dwarves will only use them when appropriate (which involves a lot of manipulation and testing of target tags). The end result should be dwarves that will not buff already buffed dwarves, will not debuff already debuffed enemies, and will not heal dwarves that aren't injured*.
*The inner workings of the last bit are so elaborate and unproven that I can't yet promise that they will work. Meph and I have been developing a way for dwarves to detect each other's injuries.
Post by: Imp on March 08, 2012, 02:44:58 pm
Lizardman spies are masters of disguise and illusions. On the technical side, it works in a similar way as a vampirism curse, except very heavily modified. In legends mode, you will periodically see "(some new god) smote (some defiler dwarf), allowing an opportunity for a lizardman spy to take his place." Technically speaking, it's still a dwarf, but it has "lizardman spy" appended to its name (and then hidden), and it can immigrate to your fortress. Once there, it will pull levers and empty cages at random (MISCHIEVOUS tag).
In order to counter it, Pel's lesser servants will have an ability called "expose spy" that they will cast if they see a lizardman spy, which turns them into a berserk lizardman, "exposing" their disguise. Ultimately you'll probably have Pel and Armok's servants lined up screening migrants as they enter your fortress, but a lizardman spy can cause some real damage before you unlock those if you're not paying close attention - which is how the lizardmen are supposed to work, through sabotage and subterfuge. Admittedly, this is pretty elaborate, and I'll need to test it very thoroughly before I can speak for the end result, but it works well enough in theory to get a saboteur past your outer defenses long before the DF army arc comes around.
There aren't currently any plans for web dwarves, but tempests of Bartoth will be able to cast a wide-area, short-duration paralyze spell that should have a similar effect. Buffs and debuffs are what I've spent a lot of time recently working on to structure them so that dwarves will only use them when appropriate (which involves a lot of manipulation and testing of target tags). The end result should be dwarves that will not buff already buffed dwarves, will not debuff already debuffed enemies, and will not heal dwarves that aren't injured*.
*The inner workings of the last bit are so elaborate and unproven that I can't yet promise that they will work. Meph and I have been developing a way for dwarves to detect each other's injuries.
Imp has enjoyed experiencing shock and awe recently.
Post by: Meph on March 08, 2012, 05:23:29 pm
Quote
Meph and I have been developing a way for dwarves to detect each other's injuries.
This statement is false. I have done testing which horribly failed, while you offered improvements. You are clearly the developer of that. Btw I had no time yet to test the blood-syndrome idea, but it is slightly faulty, since dwarves get dwarfblood on them all the time without getting injured. Also: It rains dwarf blood.
PS: Immobile tag. well. Everything went better then expected. Thanks for that, smartass :P (they cant move, still be moved by pasturing, and still attack.)
Post by: isitanos on March 08, 2012, 08:11:43 pm
Is advanced tech integral to the mod or relatively easy to remove? If it's part of the core I guess I'll just wait until I'm in the mood for a radical change of setting.
Post by: narhiril on March 08, 2012, 08:27:57 pm
The mod seems interesting to explore, but I'm kind of put off by stuff like "bioelectric capacitors". I like my medieval fantasy, you see.
Is advanced tech integral to the mod or relatively easy to remove? If it's part of the core I guess I'll just wait until I'm in the mood for a radical change of setting.
The tech tree is completely optional. You don't have to use anything you don't like - none of the features of vanilla Dwarf Fortress have been adjusted at all with respect to the tech tree. Though, to be honest, the technological advances are relatively holistic and themed around mechanisms, Tesla-style electrical experiments, and alchemical pseudo-science. It's a lot closer to steampunk than it is to modern, and it fits fairly well, even into a medieval fantasy universe (my opinion, of course, drawing pretty heavily from Warhammer).
Also, your heart contains a bioelectric capacitor. Just saying. ;)
Post by: Stirk on March 08, 2012, 09:04:47 pm
Post by: Stirk on March 08, 2012, 09:37:21 pm
Post by: Putnam on March 08, 2012, 09:45:14 pm
Post by: Meph on March 08, 2012, 10:45:21 pm
Post by: Stirk on March 08, 2012, 10:55:38 pm
But now I have an army of wave breaker babies, so it works out.
Post by: Jilladilla on March 08, 2012, 11:08:37 pm
ahh the things we can do in DF :D
Post by: Pan on March 08, 2012, 11:29:25 pm
Post by: Stirk on March 08, 2012, 11:31:56 pm
Post by: Stirk on March 08, 2012, 11:39:41 pm
Post by: SalmonGod on March 08, 2012, 11:59:32 pm
...But the babies can still use their power. I would post a picture, but I am not sure how to take one.
I recommend zscreen for screen captures.
Post by: Pan on March 09, 2012, 12:03:54 am
Actually, it only does one at a time. But for some reason, it does the baby first, the adult is completely unaffected. Since I have it on repeat, the parent then continues and makes himself a wave breaker (Better than the other way around, when the kid would drown when mom went for a swim...)
So much for mass production of emberlights and wavebreakers then... But at least a potentially big bug is averted, so that's good.
Post by: narhiril on March 09, 2012, 09:19:24 am
Actually, it only does one at a time. But for some reason, it does the baby first, the adult is completely unaffected. Since I have it on repeat, the parent then continues and makes himself a wave breaker (Better than the other way around, when the kid would drown when mom went for a swim...)
So much for mass production of emberlights and wavebreakers then... But at least a potentially big bug is averted, so that's good.
You can get multiple transformations out of one reaction, it's just horribly inconsistent. Unfortunately there isn't any other way to do it, I'm afraid.
Post by: Draxis on March 09, 2012, 10:37:42 am
Post by: narhiril on March 09, 2012, 10:40:15 pm
I have an idea. In the manual, it says that Tungsten Carbide can be used for weapons, but it is above the dwarves' technology level because it takes higher temperatures than magma can provide. Possibly you could make it at some tech building (Experimental Materials?), consuming tungsten and coal (source of carbon) to produce it.
I'm still trying to lay out what's going to be in the next tech tree update, but I'll definitely keep this in mind.
I had my last midterm today, so I came back to play some DF tonight. In my little experimental fortress, a forgotten beast showed up and started lurking right in the waters next to my cavern entrance, so I sent my crack team of 10 military dwarves (3 of them wavebreakers) to guard the water's edge in case it got gutsy. The next time I went to look, the three wavebreakers in that squad had taken it upon themselves to dive in, chase it down underwater, and beat the ever living crap out of it before returning to their posts on the beach. That was better than even I had hoped for them to do.
Post by: Pan on March 09, 2012, 11:56:51 pm
I have an idea. In the manual, it says that Tungsten Carbide can be used for weapons, but it is above the dwarves' technology level because it takes higher temperatures than magma can provide. Possibly you could make it at some tech building (Experimental Materials?), consuming tungsten and coal (source of carbon) to produce it.
I'm still trying to lay out what's going to be in the next tech tree update, but I'll definitely keep this in mind.
I had my last midterm today, so I came back to play some DF tonight. In my little experimental fortress, a forgotten beast showed up and started lurking right in the waters next to my cavern entrance, so I sent my crack team of 10 military dwarves (3 of them wavebreakers) to guard the water's edge in case it got gutsy. The next time I went to look, the three wavebreakers in that squad had taken it upon themselves to dive in, chase it down underwater, and beat the ever living crap out of it before returning to their posts on the beach. That was better than even I had hoped for them to do.
Spec ops :D Were they affected by the forgotten beast's syndromes? They can clean things off, but will it work after being splattered with it? What I want to know.
Post by: Meph on March 10, 2012, 12:23:02 am
I once saw a plaguebearer that fell into a river. The entire river downwards was yellow with plague fluid after a short time.
Post by: Mobotium on March 10, 2012, 04:58:34 am
Maybe there could be some very advanced workshop that worked as a genetics lab, creating mutated pets out of goblins and taking plants to create a faster growing/more valuable/whatever variety.
Also, I though about a new rare mineral, wich would be a remenant of a forgoten meteor/spaceship wich could either be used in combination with steel to forge a more powerfull version (maybe also causing more damage to some creatures?) or researched in some kind of research lab, in order to discover new, advanced things. Creating self-repairing cyborgs out of your dwarves sounds good enough. Also, quite awsome if they happen to gain attached blades in the process. Other than that, turning animals into half-robot-dogs seems cool.
Post by: SalmonGod on March 10, 2012, 05:26:41 am
SO, I got this tech idea...
Maybe there could be some very advanced workshop that worked as a genetics lab, creating mutated pets out of goblins and taking plants to create a faster growing/more valuable/whatever variety.
This gave me an idea... would it be possible to use captured enemies as medical training subjects?
Post by: Pan on March 10, 2012, 05:46:29 am
SO, I got this tech idea...
Maybe there could be some very advanced workshop that worked as a genetics lab, creating mutated pets out of goblins and taking plants to create a faster growing/more valuable/whatever variety.
Also, I though about a new rare mineral, wich would be a remenant of a forgoten meteor/spaceship wich could either be used in combination with steel to forge a more powerfull version (maybe also causing more damage to some creatures?) or researched in some kind of research lab, in order to discover new, advanced things. Creating self-repairing cyborgs out of your dwarves sounds good enough. Also, quite awsome if they happen to gain attached blades in the process. Other than that, turning animals into half-robot-dogs seems cool.
Ooh, interesting ideas. Attack improvements to existing war animals.
Post by: Demiurge on March 10, 2012, 08:21:18 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
As you can see the walls there next to the water look almost exactly like the floors. I've also had problems with text disappearing on menu's but I had this in Masterwork too and the latest update with new fonts fixed that.
Edit: The stone in the screenshot is alunite.
Post by: Pan on March 10, 2012, 10:02:34 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
It would appear the remains of this mysterious race has been located in the caverns... This appear to be circular construction built over the water. What could it be? :o A shrine to a water goddess? A fishing area? A harbor? We'll never know... until we demolish the damn thing! Miners! Have at these ancient, rich ruins with your copper picks! The vanguard wealth and knowledge will be mine! MINE!
But really, these are the times where the creative part of me gets a boner. Shame I'm not writing this fort down as a community story... :D
Post by: Man of Paper on March 10, 2012, 10:55:06 am
That fort also ended spectacularly. As a little backstory, this fortress relied heavily on trade, and had legendary stonecrafters working around the clock while my smiths produced masterwork iovium weaponry. By the middle of the second year I had six dwarves armed with damascus steel and iovium while clad in a mix of mithril and steel armor. The fort was gaining vast riches very quickly. Almost too quickly. Our massive food and drink stockpiles (all bought from caravans, because my dwarves are high class and won't trudge in fields, apparently), as well as our vast riches (but most likely our sweet-ass 40000 dwarfbuck yak bone helmet) got the attention of a dragon.
Now, my last few forts have had a massive female to male population difference. This means most of my military have the ability to have children, and the inexplicable desire to care for them. Such was the case with my swordsdwarf and hammerdwarf (armed with a damascus steel scimitar and an iovium warhammer). They both carried small useless dwarves at all times. This included in the charge towards the dragon.
Issued the kill order, my dwarves charged straight for the dragon, who proceeded to bathe them in flames. My warriors dodged and blocked. This did not appear, however, to carry over to their infants, both of which got incinerated instantly.
My axedwarf lost his life in the battle, but my soldiers quickly prevailed. Then I saw the two flashing red arrows.
Then, "LadyUrist McHammerdwarf goes berserk!"
"Oh god!" I cried out as she smote an innocent mason. I ordered the military to move in.
They proceeded to die at her hands. All but one speardwarf, legs broken. In an almost too good to be true moment, he thrust his spear upwards, killing the angry, angry femdwarf. Except for the fire still raging outside, I thought everything was finally getting back to normal.
"An ambush! Curse them!"
It was them damn goblins! I watched in horror as I got that message a half dozen more times. The goblins slowly massacred my fort.
I have never felt better about losing in my life.
Post by: Pan on March 10, 2012, 11:16:01 am
First time I saw the rubble I thought, "Bah, useless stone to turn into gems." (I didn't know at the time that they were useful) Luckily, I was lazy for about all the game.
That fort also ended spectacularly. As a little backstory, this fortress relied heavily on trade, and had legendary stonecrafters working around the clock while my smiths produced masterwork iovium weaponry. By the middle of the second year I had six dwarves armed with damascus steel and iovium while clad in a mix of mithril and steel armor. The fort was gaining vast riches very quickly. Almost too quickly. Our massive food and drink stockpiles (all bought from caravans, because my dwarves are high class and won't trudge in fields, apparently), as well as our vast riches (but most likely our sweet-ass 40000 dwarfbuck yak bone helmet) got the attention of a dragon.
Now, my last few forts have had a massive female to male population difference. This means most of my military have the ability to have children, and the inexplicable desire to care for them. Such was the case with my swordsdwarf and hammerdwarf (armed with a damascus steel scimitar and an iovium warhammer). They both carried small useless dwarves at all times. This included in the charge towards the dragon.
Issued the kill order, my dwarves charged straight for the dragon, who proceeded to bathe them in flames. My warriors dodged and blocked. This did not appear, however, to carry over to their infants, both of which got incinerated instantly.
My axedwarf lost his life in the battle, but my soldiers quickly prevailed. Then I saw the two flashing red arrows.
Then, "LadyUrist McHammerdwarf goes berserk!"
"Oh god!" I cried out as she smote an innocent mason. I ordered the military to move in.
They proceeded to die at her hands. All but one speardwarf, legs broken. In an almost too good to be true moment, he thrust his spear upwards, killing the angry, angry femdwarf. Except for the fire still raging outside, I thought everything was finally getting back to normal.
"An ambush! Curse them!"
It was them damn goblins! I watched in horror as I got that message a half dozen more times. The goblins slowly massacred my fort.
I have never felt better about losing in my life.
How powerful are dragon flames now? Just want to check from an old timer on this before charging them with emberlights and wavebreakers. :P
To combat this baby thing, I tend to set the ratios in the creature standards for there to be slightly more males (females at 700 - 900, males at 1000).
Also, on a side note, i notice from your profile picture - Kingdom of Loathing?
Narhiril, are you currently working on the rituals or the mechanicals? I ask merely for information.
Post by: Man of Paper on March 10, 2012, 11:23:40 am
-snip-
Thanks for the tip!
And indeed, Kingdom of Loathing. Haven't been on in a while though.
Post by: thatkid on March 10, 2012, 12:45:43 pm
Code: [Select]
Interaction Token not recognized : CLOAK
*** Error(s) finalizing the interaction REZ_SECRET_LFR
Error Initializing Text: raw/objects/text/secret_rez_lfr.txtThe first may not actually be from LFR, I need to check my personal mod to make sure. But it certainly doesn't look like you've included a secret_rez_lfr of any kind.
Post by: vorpal+5 on March 10, 2012, 03:32:17 pm
(http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/4691/sanstitreuul.jpg)
Post by: Alkhemia on March 10, 2012, 03:52:03 pm
Post by: Stirk on March 10, 2012, 03:59:00 pm
My fortress was just invaded full-scale by the goblins, with their demon leader and everything. My well-equipped military I sent to destroy it, fighting long and hard but ended up losing. All looked hopeless as they ran toward the body of my fort...
And got slaughtered. On top of the traps, I had like twenty civilian wavebreakers from the setting it on auto I mentioned earlier. They ended up able to fight off the rest of the siege, beating it, with much fewer casualties as I had assumed. So basically I am fine, with the exception of all the tantrums and the bodies I have to bury, it went a lot easier than I thought it was.
Post by: SalmonGod on March 10, 2012, 04:08:58 pm
Post by: Imp on March 10, 2012, 04:11:23 pm
Is it just me, or is getting the Wave breakers really easy once you get everything you need to make one?
.... I had like twenty civilian wavebreakers from the setting it on auto ....
I suspect, since there -are- quite a few gods involved, that Narhiril may have a few surprises (some surely unfortunate) for us one day, should the religeous composition of our fortress tip to far in certain directions.
Did you allow 90% of your fortress to become one god's chosen ones? Perhaps certain other gods might grow offended from feeling neglected, or become 'distant' as they are not properly focused on by your dwarves. (Perhaps the Earth god might withdraw his bounty, and you find that many of your dug out ores and worked metals have become a simple stone type, or even not yet dug metal and gem veins could turn to basic stone, or Armok send some messengers to remind your fortress that he should be the one given the greatest worship/fear) Maybe the 'over-worshipped' god might start taking 'liberties' to show its appreciation at being so deeply beloved (Temanat might start turning wine into water, or randomly flooding places that you really dont want to see get wet, like tiles containing masterwork engravings).
Perhaps, if your balance goes awry, prayers and rituals to the under-represented gods might cease to work or tend to backfire in much more frequent and horrible ways.
Post by: Stirk on March 10, 2012, 04:25:27 pm
Quote
I'm kind of curious about making an underwater fort with wavebreakers.
I was also thinking about that, maybe with just an air lock with a few doors and the temple to allow migrants to assimilate. Make it next to an ocean, flood every place but the three-tile walkway for caravans, and fill that with traps and you would have amazing defenses...
Quote
Perhaps, if your balance goes awry, prayers and rituals to the under-represented gods might cease to work or tend to backfire in much more frequent and horrible ways.
That would be an interesting way to keep the balance of power, and would keep you from making all of your dwarves invincible steel-skinned Armok worshipers with other amazing powers and keeping anything from killing you. I am not sure how that would be implemented, however...
Post by: Imp on March 10, 2012, 04:35:47 pm
QuoteI'm kind of curious about making an underwater fort with wavebreakers.
I was also thinking about that, maybe with just an air lock with a few doors and the temple to allow migrants to assimilate. Make it next to an ocean, flood every place but the three-tile walkway for caravans, and fill that with traps and you would have amazing defenses...
We as players probably don't care about this as much as dwarves would, but any newborns in this fort would almost certainly die of drowning.
I know that Emberlight females are sterile, to avoid unfortunate newborns. Far as I know, female wavebreakers can still give birth, and the babies are born as normal dwarves.
Has anyone tested yet if a Wavebreaker mother would prioritize a job of rushing her newest born to the temple for transformation, or if an already-Wavebreaker mother would even notice that job, as she herself does not need the transformation?
Testing this is nearly impossible for me with my limited time these days - I've not gotten my new fort past spring yet, there's just no time for me to play :-\
Post by: Man of Paper on March 10, 2012, 04:39:31 pm
Post by: Stirk on March 10, 2012, 04:49:22 pm
Quote
We as players probably don't care about this as much as dwarves would, but any newborns in this fort would almost certainly die of drowning.
I know that Emberlight females are sterile, to avoid unfortunate newborns. Far as I know, female wavebreakers can still give birth, and the babies are born as normal dwarves.
Ah the children! Think of the children!
Well I am about to try it... Perhaps if you make a meeting area in the middle of the ocean water proof with strategic use of pumps, and you could probably place a well there, with other things like another temple to baptize the newborns? That would probably lower child fatality rates significantly.
Quote
Has anyone tested yet if a Wavebreaker mother would prioritize a job of rushing her newest born to the temple for transformation, or if an already-Wavebreaker mother would even notice that job, as she herself does not need the transformation?
I did the whole set to repeat thing, and they still continue even after they have already transformed. It gets annoying when you set it on repeat, but it is easy to walk around, and allows for more baby wave breakers.
Quote
It balances itself out either way. If you use a variety of the "special forces" dwarves you can do a little bit of everything. If you specify, however, you specialize greatly in one area while attaining their critical weakness. For instance, if you use all emberlights, you'll be murderous against sieges (I haven't gotten any yet, but it seems like they're good for crowd control), but your environment, as well as any dwarves you don't change quickly, is going to get burnt a lot.
Forgot about you.
But the emberlight is the only one with such a weakness, if you can call being to powerful a weakness. Wavebreakers don't need extra regents to make one you have the basics to make one, so once you make one you can make unlimited amounts. They have a ton of bonuses, but no negatives. Or the corpse raisers that are planned. They don't sound like they have any weakness. So basically you an have a fortress made entirely of wavebreakers with no ill effect, same for emberlight if you don't mind your grass being burned.
Post by: Meph on March 10, 2012, 07:02:48 pm
Post by: Stirk on March 10, 2012, 07:07:43 pm
Quote
Underwater pathfinding is broken, they only enter deep water to fight as far as I know. Would be glad to be corrected on this.
Could have told me that before I spent the last two ours starting an underwater fort...
Post by: narhiril on March 10, 2012, 07:31:08 pm
This gave me an idea... would it be possible to use captured enemies as medical training subjects?
Can't be done. Sorry.
Using the ASCII portion of the raws only download, I get these errors:Code: [Select]Interaction Token not recognized : CLOAK
*** Error(s) finalizing the interaction REZ_SECRET_LFR
Error Initializing Text: raw/objects/text/secret_rez_lfr.txt
The first may not actually be from LFR, I need to check my personal mod to make sure. But it certainly doesn't look like you've included a secret_rez_lfr of any kind.
That file is erroneously missing from the raw-only download. It's a very minor issue, but thank you for bringing it to my attention.
How powerful are dragon flames now? Just want to check from an old timer on this before charging them with emberlights and wavebreakers. :P
To combat this baby thing, I tend to set the ratios in the creature standards for there to be slightly more males (females at 700 - 900, males at 1000).
Also, on a side note, i notice from your profile picture - Kingdom of Loathing?
Narhiril, are you currently working on the rituals or the mechanicals? I ask merely for information.
Emberlights and wavebreakers are immune to dragonfire. Also, it isn't specified in the documentation, but the transformation to wavebreakers sterilizes females just like the emberlight one.
Right now, I'm working on tweaks and balances to the ritual tree.
It balances itself out either way. If you use a variety of the "special forces" dwarves you can do a little bit of everything. If you specify, however, you specialize greatly in one area while attaining their critical weakness. For instance, if you use all emberlights, you'll be murderous against sieges (I haven't gotten any yet, but it seems like they're good for crowd control), but your environment, as well as any dwarves you don't change quickly, is going to get burnt a lot.
The advantages and disadvantages are going to get more obvious in the near future. I actually don't consider the wavebreaker transformation quite balanced yet, so I might be modifying that in the near future. The most obvious example of a disadvantage that I can think of is that wavebreakers and emberlights are unable to be healed by paragons, but since I haven't actually released paragons yet, that's kind of a moot point.
The wavebreaker transformation will probably see some additional reagents added to it in the next update. For future, more powerful ritual units, there is going to be a substantial risk (as Imp has begun exploring) to attempting to transform a dwarf in the form of uncertainty as to what they're going to transform into. More on that later.
Post by: Pan on March 10, 2012, 10:32:44 pm
The wavebreaker transformation will probably see some additional reagents added to it in the next update. For future, more powerful ritual units, there is going to be a substantial risk (as Imp has begun exploring) to attempting to transform a dwarf in the form of uncertainty as to what they're going to transform into. More on that later.
My current fortress is still young, but I want to know how expensive are wavebreakers and emberlights to transform. I mean, to make a divine being, it's gotta be pretty risky and expensive. But from what I hear, it's not quite the case with wavebreakers, from what i hear.
In future, I believe there are several raws I have observed that will transform your dwarves into large rats and demons. Guess it's better not to set those on repeat.
Post by: narhiril on March 11, 2012, 02:43:53 am
The wavebreaker transformation will probably see some additional reagents added to it in the next update. For future, more powerful ritual units, there is going to be a substantial risk (as Imp has begun exploring) to attempting to transform a dwarf in the form of uncertainty as to what they're going to transform into. More on that later.
My current fortress is still young, but I want to know how expensive are wavebreakers and emberlights to transform. I mean, to make a divine being, it's gotta be pretty risky and expensive. But from what I hear, it's not quite the case with wavebreakers, from what i hear.
In future, I believe there are several raws I have observed that will transform your dwarves into large rats and demons. Guess it's better not to set those on repeat.
Turn them into monsters, give them plagues, unleash a horrible fiery explosion, give them curses... I'm really just hitting the tip of the iceberg here.
Post by: Imp on March 11, 2012, 03:46:22 am
Turn them into monsters, give them plagues, unleash a horrible fiery explosion, give them curses... I'm really just hitting the tip of the iceberg here.
I sure hope there's also going to be an alternate way to make it really, really safe, though probably rediculously more expensive attempt at transformation. Some of us like our transformed dwarves quick and dirty, others prize every one of the buggers, wrap each one in cotton wool, and really prefer that each stays among the living , regardless of cost!
Post by: Pan on March 11, 2012, 03:51:33 am
Turn them into monsters, give them plagues, unleash a horrible fiery explosion, give them curses... I'm really just hitting the tip of the iceberg here.
Uh... heh, good to know! Oh golly gosh, the poll is sure uh.. favoring the other tech tree at the moment. Heh. Who would have guessed people preferred the safer technol- *cue alchemy lab exploding* Well.. fuck.
But hey, what are your next ideas for the mechanical tech tree? Golems and?
Also, how powerful are corrosive zingers?
Just got a historical migrant emberlight. I sent her, after backing up the save, against a tribe of blowgunner cavefish men with nothing but a shield. It was a massacre. Imagine if they were armored and armed. Also, the smoke is fricking annoying because you cannot see shit through it - so i missed out half the battle.
Emberlights are a mystery... How shall I apply them without invoking their friendly fire abilities? I cannot send them with normal soldiers, only waverbreakers. They cannot shoot without fortifications... I know! I'll make an open, fortificationless area with a raisable bridge. When goblins and voidwalkers pass by, I open the bridge and let the emberlights shoot and start a bush fire. Then before archers can return much fire, I close the bridge. Brilliant! :D Will need to be careful not to retract the bridge and crush the dwarf though...
Post by: Man of Paper on March 11, 2012, 01:26:33 pm
The Emberlights and You is a legendary monkeysphere-bound post. The written portion consists of a 1 post plan entitled The Emberlights and You authored by Pan. It concerns the utilization of Emberlight Warriors. The writing is quite cheerful. In the early spring of 2012, The Emberlights and You was created in DF Modding by Bay Watcher Pan. In the early spring of 2012, The Emberlights and You was stored in DF Modding by Bay Watcher Pan.
I'm on the fringe of creating my first Emberlights, and I'm pretty sure I'm going to implement this and see how it works out.
If it doesn't go to well, I'll just revert to my "Iwo Jima" plan, which consists of digging a lot of my 1st level out(my embark is 80% flat and I always start my fortress a few z-levels down so it'll be no problem) and assigning them the whole z-level as a burrow. They'll have food and drink stockpiles, as well as a barracks. I'm going to make sure they get time off-duty so they can wander around (this is very important). "How is this Iwo Jima, you turd?" you probably aren't shouting. Well, I'm going to sprinkle stairways to the ground level all throughout the flatlands. With any luck, I'll activate all of my Emberlight squads when I get besieged, and they'll fire torrents of flame from downstairs. If it doesn't work like that, then the warriors jumping out from all over the place is more than good enough.
I just realized I name all of the plans I use after World War II things, like "Iwo Jima", "Stalingrad" (all dwarves cycle through military duty so I can beat all my foes with a wall of semi-efficient meat), and "Reverse Normandy" (set up on a beachline with bunker-like fortification set ups and hella siege engines pointed inland).
Post by: Stirk on March 11, 2012, 04:28:34 pm
So here are some arena tests on them:
Human swordsman with a steel katana and grand master skill vs carbuncle: Human dies in one hit. "Carbuncle 1 slashes the human in the lower body, tearing the fat! The human is struck down".
This itself is impressive.
Fully armored in iron human swordsman with a katana vs carbuncle:
Test one the human cut off both of the carbuncle's legs and it bled to death.
Epic carbuncles?
I then tried building a new one to fight again, to see if their blades attack is only a once and a while thing.
And the carbuncle won this time. One attack to the head that bounced off his iron helm, then one to his arm and he fell dead. Apparently I didn't armor him well enough. But now I will use a carbuncle for each test.
Now I will go straight to dragon...
And it tied with a dragon. The dragon set the carbuncle on fire, but the carbuncle killed it after it was dead. It suffocated, kind of like my adventurers did.
Wow. Put some of these in a cage as a surprise to invaders and you would be invincible.
*EDIT*
I then put one against an "Unarmed" rift warden. The rift warden beat him in a spectacular way. If they are immune, don't breath, or are just that tough remains a mystery.
So I put four of them against one unarmed, unskilled warden. The warden beat them easily, even though it is suggested that all four used the special that killed dragons in one hit. Wow. Fear the carbuncle plenty, but the wardens more...
*EDIT 2*
And against ten carbuncles it was no different. Taking the form of the warden, it would seem that he just ignores them.
So basically everything except rift wardens seem to die in carbuncle wind. Rift wardens you will have to find another way to kill.
*EDIT 3*
Tried against a hydra, and it died easily.
Upon actually taking a carbuncle over, it would seem I was wrong in thinking that it was the bladed air doing the damage, it was just the stated thing that happened around the same time. The actually attack was "Telekinetic asphyxiation", which seems easily capable of killing anything that needs to breath. This attack also has a high reload rate, so basically in a one-on-one fight, the carbuncle will win with most creatures no matter how strong they are. This also means the carbuncle is either going to win or going to lose, since if it's special works, then the enemy would die, and if it doesn't, the carbuncle would die. The dragon attack earlier was an acceptation, do to the fact that dragons have a range attack as well.
Post by: Meph on March 11, 2012, 04:52:09 pm
Quote
Turn them into monsters, give them plagues, unleash a horrible fiery explosion, give them curses...
Done, Working on It, Done, Not-Done. :)
My magic system is pretty set up, for today it is balancing on the list. If you want a look, just leave me a PM, was glad for your example raws. You know my "turn them into monsters", diseases I made a seperate thread about and hope to start soon, but already know how to do it, and about the horribly fiery explosion: My magmamancer should never get injured enought to decide to flee, otherwise everything in a wide circle around him, including him, will evaporate ^^ Curses I havent done yet, except rheaynas drider curse. Flobulon had a dwarven queen that was cursed to transform into one half dwarf, half spider. ^^
So yeah, I love this new system, it really open clutchy, but unlimited possibilities to simulate most everything. Beware the spanish flu.
Post by: Pan on March 11, 2012, 06:25:02 pm
Well I am going to look into the Empyrean Carbuncles now. My human legendary swordsman was just going about his business after slaughtering an outlaw camp, then something like "Empyrean Carbuncle uses Bladed wind!" twice and my character would slowly suffocate. Twice. One hit, and my legends ended.
So here are some arena tests on them:
Human swordsman with a steel katana and grand master skill vs carbuncle: Human dies in one hit. "Carbuncle 1 slashes the human in the lower body, tearing the fat! The human is struck down".
This itself is impressive.
Fully armored in iron human swordsman with a katana vs carbuncle:
Test one the human cut off both of the carbuncle's legs and it bled to death.
Epic carbuncles?
I then tried building a new one to fight again, to see if their blades attack is only a once and a while thing.
And the carbuncle won this time. One attack to the head that bounced off his iron helm, then one to his arm and he fell dead. Apparently I didn't armor him well enough. But now I will use a carbuncle for each test.
Now I will go straight to dragon...
And it tied with a dragon. The dragon set the carbuncle on fire, but the carbuncle killed it after it was dead. It suffocated, kind of like my adventurers did.
Wow. Put some of these in a cage as a surprise to invaders and you would be invincible.
*EDIT*
I then put one against an "Unarmed" rift warden. The rift warden beat him in a spectacular way. If they are immune, don't breath, or are just that tough remains a mystery.
So I put four of them against one unarmed, unskilled warden. The warden beat them easily, even though it is suggested that all four used the special that killed dragons in one hit. Wow. Fear the carbuncle plenty, but the wardens more...
*EDIT 2*
And against ten carbuncles it was no different. Taking the form of the warden, it would seem that he just ignores them.
So basically everything except rift wardens seem to die in carbuncle wind. Rift wardens you will have to find another way to kill.
At least they are rare, although you only really need one. I guess just to attempt to balance them, I'll give them trapavoid so it's hard to capture one in the wild.
Post by: Imp on March 11, 2012, 08:06:39 pm
Well I am going to look into the Empyrean Carbuncles now. My human legendary swordsman was just going about his business after slaughtering an outlaw camp, then something like "Empyrean Carbuncle uses Bladed wind!" twice and my character would slowly suffocate. Twice. One hit, and my legends ended.
So here are some arena tests on them:
Human swordsman with a steel katana and grand master skill vs carbuncle: Human dies in one hit. "Carbuncle 1 slashes the human in the lower body, tearing the fat! The human is struck down".
This itself is impressive.
Fully armored in iron human swordsman with a katana vs carbuncle:
Test one the human cut off both of the carbuncle's legs and it bled to death.
Epic carbuncles?
I then tried building a new one to fight again, to see if their blades attack is only a once and a while thing.
And the carbuncle won this time. One attack to the head that bounced off his iron helm, then one to his arm and he fell dead. Apparently I didn't armor him well enough. But now I will use a carbuncle for each test.
Now I will go straight to dragon...
And it tied with a dragon. The dragon set the carbuncle on fire, but the carbuncle killed it after it was dead. It suffocated, kind of like my adventurers did.
Wow. Put some of these in a cage as a surprise to invaders and you would be invincible.
*EDIT*
I then put one against an "Unarmed" rift warden. The rift warden beat him in a spectacular way. If they are immune, don't breath, or are just that tough remains a mystery.
So I put four of them against one unarmed, unskilled warden. The warden beat them easily, even though it is suggested that all four used the special that killed dragons in one hit. Wow. Fear the carbuncle plenty, but the wardens more...
*EDIT 2*
And against ten carbuncles it was no different. Taking the form of the warden, it would seem that he just ignores them.
So basically everything except rift wardens seem to die in carbuncle wind. Rift wardens you will have to find another way to kill.
At least they are rare, although you only really need one. I guess just to attempt to balance them, I'll give them trapavoid so it's hard to capture one in the wild.
Personally, I don't think these wee wonders are... rare, depending on your playstyle and choices in game. Ahh, uncommon, at worst. It can take quite a few years to build up a large collection of them, even if you play towards gaining as many of them as possible - but trapavoid isn't the issue here. Still, I'll try to not let the carbuncle to far out of the bag, so if you don't know any other way to catch them beasties then traps.... my mouth is sealed. :-X
Post by: Meph on March 11, 2012, 08:17:01 pm
Quote
Specific brew reactions don't work properly, kicking out generic "drinks." I am working on a fix for this.If this is still an issue: If you got them from the same thread as I did, then the pig tail reaction is missing the "grass_"tail_pig, and the whiskey is linking to a non-existant alcohol of muck root. You have to add it to the plant. I had the same problem and fixed those. See the reaction_masterwork.txt and search for "new still"
If you find any solution to the "stone is economic as soon as it is in a reaction" then please let me know. Someone suggested using reaction classes (for example microcline has the reaction class: destroy_microcline) and then instead of using actual microcline in the reaction to destroy it, just allow all stone with that reaction class. I did not test it as of yet, but I dont believe it to be working. Just wanted to let you know.
Post by: Stirk on March 11, 2012, 08:35:26 pm
Quote
Personally, I don't think these wee wonders are... rare, depending on your playstyle and choices in game. Ahh, uncommon, at worst. It can take quite a few years to build up a large collection of them, even if you play towards gaining as many of them as possible - but trapavoid isn't the issue here. Still, I'll try to not let the carbuncle to far out of the bag, so if you don't know any other way to catch them beasties then traps.... my mouth is sealed. :-X
Personally, I am a little annoyed with their commonness in adventure mode myself. No matter what race you play, what weapon you have, or how strong you are, one of these ends your game and takes out your lungs. Unless you happen to not be able to breath in the first place, in which case you have a whole other set of issues.
Post by: Pan on March 11, 2012, 11:15:14 pm
QuotePersonally, I don't think these wee wonders are... rare, depending on your playstyle and choices in game. Ahh, uncommon, at worst. It can take quite a few years to build up a large collection of them, even if you play towards gaining as many of them as possible - but trapavoid isn't the issue here. Still, I'll try to not let the carbuncle to far out of the bag, so if you don't know any other way to catch them beasties then traps.... my mouth is sealed. :-X
Personally, I am a little annoyed with their commonness in adventure mode myself. No matter what race you play, what weapon you have, or how strong you are, one of these ends your game and takes out your lungs. Unless you happen to not be able to breath in the first place, in which case you have a whole other set of issues.
I'd remove them. They aren't all that big part of LFR, anyway.
Post by: Imp on March 12, 2012, 01:09:27 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Anyway, the bit of me that's not grossed out wants to ask if LoFR is going to eventually treat chitin as a raw material for anything, cause I'd like that option.
Post by: vorpal+5 on March 12, 2012, 02:39:40 am
I told you, it is dumb, but I searched the menus...
Post by: Mobotium on March 12, 2012, 04:11:25 am
dumb question, sorry, how do I make steel from iron and coal?
I told you, it is dumb, but I searched the menus...
http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/Steel
All hail the wiki!
Post by: vorpal+5 on March 12, 2012, 04:52:57 am
Post by: Jilladilla on March 12, 2012, 05:58:23 am
no flux required to do that
Post by: narhiril on March 12, 2012, 02:05:49 pm
QuotePersonally, I don't think these wee wonders are... rare, depending on your playstyle and choices in game. Ahh, uncommon, at worst. It can take quite a few years to build up a large collection of them, even if you play towards gaining as many of them as possible - but trapavoid isn't the issue here. Still, I'll try to not let the carbuncle to far out of the bag, so if you don't know any other way to catch them beasties then traps.... my mouth is sealed. :-X
Personally, I am a little annoyed with their commonness in adventure mode myself. No matter what race you play, what weapon you have, or how strong you are, one of these ends your game and takes out your lungs. Unless you happen to not be able to breath in the first place, in which case you have a whole other set of issues.
This is a legitimate concern. I'll be toning them down significantly in the next version. They will still be dangerous, but not spectacularly lethal against the first thing that crosses their path. I'll most likely turn telekinetic asphyxiation into a very low percentage chance and lower the cooldown a bit - that way they have a chance to instant-kill things, but they're more likely to just get pummeled. I will be giving them a better defensive ability to partially compensate for this in fortress mode.
If this is still an issue: If you got them from the same thread as I did, then the pig tail reaction is missing the "grass_"tail_pig, and the whiskey is linking to a non-existant alcohol of muck root. You have to add it to the plant. I had the same problem and fixed those.
Yeah, that's what I get for incorporating other people's raws without testing them thoroughly. It's fixed now.
Turn them into monsters, give them plagues, unleash a horrible fiery explosion, give them curses... I'm really just hitting the tip of the iceberg here.
I sure hope there's also going to be an alternate way to make it really, really safe, though probably rediculously more expensive attempt at transformation. Some of us like our transformed dwarves quick and dirty, others prize every one of the buggers, wrap each one in cotton wool, and really prefer that each stays among the living , regardless of cost!
I can do this fairly easily, in the same way that palladium functions to make advanced alchemical experiments safer. :)
Turn them into monsters, give them plagues, unleash a horrible fiery explosion, give them curses... I'm really just hitting the tip of the iceberg here.
Uh... heh, good to know! Oh golly gosh, the poll is sure uh.. favoring the other tech tree at the moment. Heh. Who would have guessed people preferred the safer technol- *cue alchemy lab exploding* Well.. fuck.
But hey, what are your next ideas for the mechanical tech tree? Golems and?
Also, how powerful are corrosive zingers?
Golems, throwing weapons, and armor upgrades. Possibly more, depending on how those work out.
Corrosive zingers are quite weak, and I'll be giving them some much-needed attention in the next update. Maybe contact rot or something devilish like that.
Also, the smoke is fricking annoying because you cannot see shit through it
Hardcoded, unfortunately. Sorry about that.
Post by: Meph on March 12, 2012, 02:52:11 pm
Post by: Demiurge on March 12, 2012, 04:38:35 pm
Post by: thatkid on March 12, 2012, 05:39:33 pm
Been having a blast with my latest fort. My civ is at war with the Elves (as it should be) and a party of bowmen ambushed me but they were only able to partially wound a few dwarves with their wooden arrows before my millitia made short work of them. Am I basically going to be able to crush any elven force? Or will they actually become more dangerous later on?AFAIK this mod does not alter elves in any way.
What's with the sudden influx of people asking vanilla questions in the chocolaty mod forum? In this thread alone there's been two today, and there's been a few others in other threads.
Post by: narhiril on March 12, 2012, 06:01:12 pm
Been having a blast with my latest fort. My civ is at war with the Elves (as it should be) and a party of bowmen ambushed me but they were only able to partially wound a few dwarves with their wooden arrows before my millitia made short work of them. Am I basically going to be able to crush any elven force? Or will they actually become more dangerous later on?AFAIK this mod does not alter elves in any way.
What's with the sudden influx of people asking vanilla questions in the chocolaty mod forum? In this thread alone there's been two today, and there's been a few others in other threads.
Not sure, but I think this one was a fair question. No, LFR does not modify the elves significantly at this time. Bows that you import from the elves (i.e. greatbows and composite bows) are stronger than regular bows, but that's about all I did to them. They still use only wood, and it's still not very effective. They do burn quite nicely, though. *Zalkor Stamp of Approval*
Post by: Pan on March 13, 2012, 08:24:50 am
Also, with Wavebreakers being able to fulfill the role of limitless ammo archers, emberlights as glass cannon artilleries, lacerators and HoA as tanks and damage dealing, earth guys as crowd control, archer dudes as elite archers - what on earth do I still need normal soldiers with pimped up crossbows and magnet guns for? The technology tree is obsolete!
I'd advise, Narhiril, to make the divine creature ceremonies expensive. I mean, earlier someone managed to set the wavebreaker ceremony on repeat and get the civilian population of all wavebreakers to break sieges. This is awesome and practical, but doesn't really seem like it's intended.
Anyway, just my opinion.
Post by: Imp on March 13, 2012, 11:00:00 am
I'd advise, Narhiril, to make the divine creature ceremonies expensive. I mean, earlier someone managed to set the wavebreaker ceremony on repeat and get the civilian population of all wavebreakers to break sieges. This is awesome and practical, but doesn't really seem like it's intended.
Anyway, just my opinion.
If I understand right, the current release (and perhaps the next few) is a 'treat' where we all get to hyper-test these units, as they are put into play.
Narhiril never promised LoFR as an 'easy' mod to play or survive.
I suspect that the 'whups' reactions are going to include disasters that are going to wipe forts, just like the 'whew' reactions are going to make units that can save them... and that there may be this quick and dirty path that kills many-a-fort and that slow and safer way that kills few, but results in fewer megaunits and likely at ungodly costs.
I trust Narhiril's innate balance-sensing mechanisms/balance training. This mod's not let me down yet, and I don't see that coming. To many diverse divine creatures? To much variety in this mod of variety? ??? I suspect once it's all done and created, these diverse critters are gonna be scattered few and far between, possibly for reasons that are very in theme and very hard for us to imagine yet.
Post by: Jilladilla on March 13, 2012, 03:16:34 pm
what on earth do I still need normal soldiers with pimped up crossbows and magnet guns for?
you could just give them to the archer dudes? and normal soldiers would still make great cannon fodder no matter what
Post by: narhiril on March 13, 2012, 03:49:32 pm
If I understand right, the current release (and perhaps the next few) is a 'treat' where we all get to hyper-test these units, as they are put into play.
Narhiril never promised LoFR as an 'easy' mod to play or survive.
I suspect that the 'whups' reactions are going to include disasters that are going to wipe forts, just like the 'whew' reactions are going to make units that can save them... and that there may be this quick and dirty path that kills many-a-fort and that slow and safer way that kills few, but results in fewer megaunits and likely at ungodly costs.
I trust Narhiril's innate balance-sensing mechanisms/balance training. This mod's not let me down yet, and I don't see that coming. To many diverse divine creatures? To much variety in this mod of variety? ??? I suspect once it's all done and created, these diverse critters are gonna be scattered few and far between, possibly for reasons that are very in theme and very hard for us to imagine yet.
This is correct. Wavebreakers are currently a sort of "preview" release. Their costs will be sharply increased in the next update (sometime this week).
To keep ritual units few and far between, here's how I'm planning to work this...
TIER THREE
-Elemental ritual units will cost a large amount of resources for each transformation attempt (similar to how emberlights work right now, though I can probably improve efficiency a bit).
-Elemental ritual units will require very different resources. It will be easier for a fortress with steady access to trees and fuel to create emberlights, whereas a fortress more adept at mining out gems will find earth units easier to acquire. Diversifying your forces has its benefits, but is more difficult to set up.
-Units of the five primary Old Gods will require an immense initial resource investment, after which their transformation rituals will be either quite cheap or free (as is the case with wavebreakers right now - you unlock the sacred bath and then use it as many times as you like). To compensate, these rituals will be quite dangerous. Items to make these rituals safer will be available, but extremely costly.
TIER FOUR
-Advanced units of the five primary Old Gods will require an immense initial resource investment, after which their transformation rituals will be either quite cheap or free. To compensate, these rituals will be extremely dangerous. As in, tantamount to a death sentence, at best, or a fortress-ending calamity at worst (if adequate precautions are not taken). If you are lucky, you will be rewarded with an awe-inspiring greater servant of the Old Gods - i.e. a Hand of Armok, a Voice of Pel, a Bringer of Mercy, etc.
Is it really good to have such a wide variety of divine creatures? Makes them less mysterious and rare, and more common and 'meh'. I was excited about the Zalkor and Temanent soldiers, as well as the Armok creatures. Paragons are cool. But those earth guys and archer dudes are really just 'meh'.
Also, with Wavebreakers being able to fulfill the role of limitless ammo archers, emberlights as glass cannon artilleries, lacerators and HoA as tanks and damage dealing, earth guys as crowd control, archer dudes as elite archers - what on earth do I still need normal soldiers with pimped up crossbows and magnet guns for? The technology tree is obsolete!
I'd advise, Narhiril, to make the divine creature ceremonies expensive. I mean, earlier someone managed to set the wavebreaker ceremony on repeat and get the civilian population of all wavebreakers to break sieges. This is awesome and practical, but doesn't really seem like it's intended.
Anyway, just my opinion.
You'll need normal soldiers because ritual units are not going to be enough to save you. As I make ritual units harder to get, the tech tree will be much more viable for general defensive capabilities - especially because if the balance of power shifts too far in your favor, I have a bunch of ways to make the enemies harder. ;)
Remember, the shedim aren't even done yet, and they're all sorts of nasty.
Post by: isitanos on March 13, 2012, 05:07:01 pm
It's nice to know that tech tree is optional, definitely gonna take a look at the mod, then.
Also, your heart contains a bioelectric capacitor. Just saying. ;)Fair enough. But the word used to describe it comes from modern science. If the vocabulary for the tech tree sounded medieval (from alchemy/astrology) or at least renaissance, it would be much more acceptable, in my view. Maybe harder to understand for the player, but much better flavor.
Post by: Darkness on March 13, 2012, 06:06:30 pm
http://dwarffortressde.wikispaces.com/LFR+2012
Thanks to Narhiril for allowing me to use Screens und Textes.
Greets Darkness
Post by: simonthedwarf on March 13, 2012, 07:56:38 pm
Post by: Pan on March 13, 2012, 08:42:30 pm
dear narhiril am i hallucinating or is there no way to build the basic metal caster anymore? I've scrolled through workshops and furnaces build tab 100 times, but i cant seem to see it?
Hm, I just checked. Looks like you'll need to develop better casting device to get your javelins, and just fashion crude javelins for now.
Post by: simonthedwarf on March 13, 2012, 08:44:47 pm
gotta say I find the temple foundry thing pretty frustrating
Post by: narhiril on March 13, 2012, 10:46:17 pm
dear narhiril am i hallucinating or is there no way to build the basic metal caster anymore? I've scrolled through workshops and furnaces build tab 100 times, but i cant seem to see it?
Hm, I just checked. Looks like you'll need to develop better casting device to get your javelins, and just fashion crude javelins for now.
And that would be a bug. Looks like something got screwed up there on the move from 0.31 to 0.34. I'll fix that one right away.
thanks for the headsup pan, thats what ive been doing
gotta say I find the temple foundry thing pretty frustrating
What exactly do you find frustrating about it?
Post by: narhiril on March 14, 2012, 01:44:48 am
Previously (0.15f) - 3 silver + 3 cobalt + 10 stone + 10 gems = infinite wavebreaker reactions.
Now (0.15g) - 3 silver + 6 cobalt + 5 stone = one wavebreaker reaction.
I kind of pulled these numbers out of my
The goal for 0.16a (I think we've gone far enough down the alphabet now ;)) will be for the Temple of the Twins to be fully finished and functional. I will also be adding a bit of framework for plagues and diseases, which will be involved in some new features. Naturally, expect the future tech and ritual trees to contain some safeguards against these new threats - I've worked out how to do permanent vaccines and boosters. I will also be pushing to get at least a few more shedim castes done and functioning, so maybe we'll see a preliminary version of those guys soon.
Post by: Atlan on March 14, 2012, 02:40:14 am
Arziltu Ishduetta Ubukhuanzupsu Bar, Arziltu Caveabyss the Fated Crevice of Umbras
A Towering humanoid composed of Ether. It has an enormous shell and squirms and fidgets. Beware its poisonous gas!
My 30-man militia did just about nothing to it, neither did the guard that travelled with the elves, dwarven caravan or these kind Nephilim.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
They ended up making some interesting artifacts, I especially like the Vanguard Rubble Coffin, and as for the sword... It was created during the beast's rampage, as the beast killed everyone around the one very, VERY determined potash maker. Maybe if he had been a bit faster we could've changed the outcome of the fortress.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
It might be worth noting that the forgotten beast, when fighting zingers, could not for the life of it kill them. It kept hitting them over and over, and every body part except "body" was red, eventually the zingers just bled to death and exploded.
Post by: Pan on March 14, 2012, 03:24:48 am
Previously (0.15f) - 3 silver + 3 cobalt + 10 stone + 10 gems = infinite wavebreaker reactions.
Glad to see the new version, but there is an infinite wavebreaker reaction? Infinite? Really? So I set it to repeat and... what? I thought it produces one reaction stone that transforms a dwarf? How is that infinite?
Post by: narhiril on March 14, 2012, 03:45:12 am
Previously (0.15f) - 3 silver + 3 cobalt + 10 stone + 10 gems = infinite wavebreaker reactions.
Glad to see the new version, but there is an infinite wavebreaker reaction? Infinite? Really? So I set it to repeat and... what? I thought it produces one reaction stone that transforms a dwarf? How is that infinite?
In 0.15f, the reagent was preserved, so it could be used as many times as you wanted. I removed that for 0.15g - you'll need a new ceremonial bath for each reaction. I also tweaked the cost (more cobalt, less stone, removed gem requirement).
Post by: Pan on March 14, 2012, 03:57:31 am
Post by: vorpal+5 on March 14, 2012, 08:48:53 am
Post by: Pan on March 14, 2012, 10:11:55 am
Upon the readme advice I embarked with mineral setting at 200... but then I'm drowning under iron ore... Did I made something wrong, will the game be too easy?
Wait till the bog trolls and voidwalkers show up. You'll be thankful for that.
But yeah, setting the mineral setting isn't just done in LFR. Just about anyone who doesn't want to waste countless embarks in non-weapon grade ore areas will set the mineral setting down.
Post by: narhiril on March 14, 2012, 01:57:17 pm
Here's a thought again - make sure ceremonies don't allow emberlights or wavebreakers or any other ritual units. Make the syndrome only affect dwarves and dwarven prodigies. Just putting it out there as something that may have been overlooked.
It hasn't been - blessings are mutually exclusive. Also, I may have neglected to mention that prodigies are ineligible for transformations because I have no way to make them carry over their natural skill.
Upon the readme advice I embarked with mineral setting at 200... but then I'm drowning under iron ore... Did I made something wrong, will the game be too easy?
You're going to need to do a hell of a lot better than iron before anything gets even remotely easy. ;)
Post by: o_O[WTFace] on March 14, 2012, 02:22:12 pm
Post by: narhiril on March 14, 2012, 04:06:04 pm
During worldgen, a defiler of a temple will occasionally be "smitten" by the (new) god associated with that temple and replaced by a lizardman spy. Lizardman spies are disguised as members of your civilization, assuming the identity of the dwarf whose place they stole.
These spies can arrive as migrants and will cause all sorts of chaos in your fortress - mostly by pulling random levers, emptying cages, and poisoning your citizens. Left alone, these will mess up things pretty nicely. Fortunately, you'll have a weapon to counter this new threat.
"Watchers" are floating, disembodied eyeball creatures that exist only in captivity. They are small and powerless, useless for just about any purpose other than for one - they can point out spies. If a watcher catches sight of a nearby lizardman spy, it will "expose" them, removing the disguise and sending the startled lizardman into a panic. Once exposed, however, lizardman spies can easily kill watchers and will re-disguise themselves after a period of time, so you have to hunt them down and catch them. However, watchers are fairly expensive investments - you'll have to decide either to take the safe route and buy a few for your embark, or if you feel like risking it for a few years until you can import them.
It all works just fine on paper, but I'll be putting this through some rigorous trials in the coming week or so, so no promises yet.
Post by: Teneb on March 14, 2012, 04:30:49 pm
One question, however: why lizardmen?
Post by: narhiril on March 14, 2012, 04:49:15 pm
If that spy thing is possible, it is going to be very Fun indeed.
One question, however: why lizardmen?
I figured that I had to use a race opposed to the dwarves. Lizardmen are crafty and have "sappers" already, so they seemed the most appropriate.
Post by: Pan on March 14, 2012, 09:55:41 pm
If that spy thing is possible, it is going to be very Fun indeed.
One question, however: why lizardmen?
I figured that I had to use a race opposed to the dwarves. Lizardmen are crafty and have "sappers" already, so they seemed the most appropriate.
That's what I thought at first, too. I mean, lizardmen look nothing like dwarves! The skin, eyes, tail... everything is a dead giveaway. Game wise this is awesome. But lore wise, it's a little hard to explain.
Post by: Meph on March 14, 2012, 11:07:52 pm
Even I am impressed, they work a lot better then my experiment with spies/sleeper units. The watcher idea is awesome.
Post by: SalmonGod on March 14, 2012, 11:38:19 pm
If that spy thing is possible, it is going to be very Fun indeed.
One question, however: why lizardmen?
I figured that I had to use a race opposed to the dwarves. Lizardmen are crafty and have "sappers" already, so they seemed the most appropriate.
That's what I thought at first, too. I mean, lizardmen look nothing like dwarves! The skin, eyes, tail... everything is a dead giveaway. Game wise this is awesome. But lore wise, it's a little hard to explain.
Reptilians are masters of holographic technology, which they developed before any of the other races came to be, but you can still catch glimpses of their double eyelids! :P
Post by: Imp on March 15, 2012, 12:53:37 am
These spies can arrive as migrants and will cause all sorts of chaos in your fortress - mostly by pulling random levers, emptying cages, and poisoning your citizens. Left alone, these will mess up things pretty nicely. Fortunately, you'll have a weapon to counter this new threat.
What if I'm hyper alert?
What if I watch an immigrant myself, having no 'watcher' critters, and decide that I'm satisfied that this immigrant's a spy?
Can I give my military a kill order for this spy (assuming it really is a spy) and have them execute the traitor without causing a loyalty cascade?
And when I decide someone's fake and foul and off them (through miliary means or through some other more subtle unfortunate accident), will their corpse or anything else they leave behind offer any proof I was right?
Or will I be left forever wondering if I am more paranoid than crafty?
If that spy thing is possible, it is going to be very Fun indeed.
One question, however: why lizardmen?
I figured that I had to use a race opposed to the dwarves. Lizardmen are crafty and have "sappers" already, so they seemed the most appropriate.
That's what I thought at first, too. I mean, lizardmen look nothing like dwarves! The skin, eyes, tail... everything is a dead giveaway. Game wise this is awesome. But lore wise, it's a little hard to explain.
Reptilians are masters of holographic technology, which they developed before any of the other races came to be, but you can still catch glimpses of their double eyelids! :P
I... don't understand why this is.... hard to understand.
It's ok for any race to be a were-whatever, right? That doesn't really jar anyone's senses of immersion?
So there's a trickster god (of the lizardmen) who loves chaos, confusion, and, well, tricks. There's many forms of 'smitten', and one of these many forms can be 'ignored'. And when the gods ignore you, other gods that usually cannot touch you can have their way with you. I feel no sense of disassociation in the idea that 'good god A' could get so mad at a defiler (accidentally or not) that 'all good gods' turn away from that one. At this point, 'Bad god A' can do their dirty work, and does so, sometimes by creating a variant of 'wereform curse' specific to 'Bad god A'. This curse essentially replaces that unlucky (or awesomely unwise) dwarf with a lizardman spy who has been trained and groomed for this purpose and was just waiting for the opportunity to act.
People used to believe stuff like this, this was why once upon a time people didn't do stuff like spill salt - and if they did, they threw a pinch of it over their shoulders. When you spilled salt (pure Earth), you were believed to have sullied its pureness - and offended the spirits of the Earth that protected you from a great many malicious other spirits. This turned the Earth spirits away from you, and those evil ones could sense this and would come leaping for you to cause you whatever sort of misfortune was theirs to give. You threw some of that spilled salt over your shoulder to scare and sometimes outright harm the spirits leaping to take you - and demonstrated to the Earth spirits that you retained your faith in the purity of Earth and your respect and desire for protection - it was a plea for needed protection that was usually answered by forgiveness and continued protection. And if you didn't throw some salt over your shoulder, then the wicked ones probably would have their way with you and who knew what might happen then!
I like this, Narhiril. This flows for me, and I can't wait to have more reasons to watch 'my' chosen people even more closely than I do.
Post by: SalmonGod on March 15, 2012, 01:23:28 am
If that spy thing is possible, it is going to be very Fun indeed.
One question, however: why lizardmen?
I figured that I had to use a race opposed to the dwarves. Lizardmen are crafty and have "sappers" already, so they seemed the most appropriate.
That's what I thought at first, too. I mean, lizardmen look nothing like dwarves! The skin, eyes, tail... everything is a dead giveaway. Game wise this is awesome. But lore wise, it's a little hard to explain.
Reptilians are masters of holographic technology, which they developed before any of the other races came to be, but you can still catch glimpses of their double eyelids! :P
I... don't understand why this is.... hard to understand.
I'm just making jokes about the real-life conspiracy theories proposed by David Icke (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Icke) claiming that the world is dominated by a secret society of reptilian humanoids called the Babylonian Brotherhood, who hide their true forms with holographic projections that allow them to masquerade as world leaders and celebrities. This was the first thing I thought of when narhiril introduced lizardman spies who disguise themselves as dwarven historical figures and infiltrate your fortress. It's just too perfect :)
Post by: SirAaronIII on March 15, 2012, 01:25:10 am
Post by: vorpal+5 on March 15, 2012, 01:29:36 am
2. Are raids from the same civilization getting stronger as time passes, or not?
3. Is it possible to burn wooden weapons back to coal? What would be the workshop to use if yes? I'm considering seizing the next Elven caravan...
Post by: Pan on March 15, 2012, 08:55:46 am
1. How can I know if a tame animal will attack enemy on sight, as dogs do? I bought a Polar Bear, will it be of any use in defence?
2. Are raids from the same civilization getting stronger as time passes, or not?
3. Is it possible to burn wooden weapons back to coal? What would be the workshop to use if yes? I'm considering seizing the next Elven caravan...
1. It depends on the animal. Polar bears will.
2. Yep :)
3. Nope. Unless you mod. Still, don't let that stop you from seizing the elven wood. That burns into charcoal well.
Narhiril, with the clothing bug fixed, I thought of an idea. You know how small critters like cave spiders can make web? How about making a critter in the caverns that not only make web, but can also start a hive? That way, you can make a silk farm by harvesting these critters and putting them in a honeycomb. Maybe put them in the third cavern layer?
As for the name of this creature... Imp!!! Get over here! There's this 'creativity' thing here needs doing! It's confusing me and making me sad...
Post by: astianax on March 15, 2012, 03:28:05 pm
...not that i've done a lot of testing with vermin colonies or anything...
also, i was excited to hear that toady's next update fixes the good/evil plants/trees. and the clothing issues
Post by: Imp on March 16, 2012, 02:12:36 am
More shock and awe moments from my LoFR game. I'd wondered 'what if', and pondered if such a thing could be, but I never had seen it before. Welp, now I have. And if I'd known about it from the onset, I could have planned to prevent it.... maybe. Maybe. Possibly not.
See, the races that bring you caravans, they... overlap sometimes, don't they?
So the depots are like, this giant tupperware party or something?
Unless a civilization's at war with you, of course. Then they just send war parties, but not caravans. Simple enough.
Until...
Unless....
Has anyone else ever wondered what would happen if two merchant-season overlapping races were friendly to you...
But at war with each other?
This has finally happened to me.
Summer, year two. The Nephal merchants arrive. They safely reach the depot. A few game-days later, the humans arrive and slowly make their way to the depot. They get around the corners, down the ramps, past the various undead and such without mishap, until they too are in sight of the depot...
Combat sounds! (I so love soundsense). My itchy fingers hit spacebar instants later, lest something dare occur in my game that I was not aware of. I expect the combat reports to tell me of the merchants fighting something, probably an undead. As I expect to see merchants, and do see merchants, it is several long moments later, as I read and reread, before I start to understand... Yes, the merchants ARE fighting each other.
Blast. I -like- trade. A lot! The more the more-tupperware-y, and that's always good. But... this. This mess. Gah! I'm carebear enough I want to save every life on my map, save the ones I choose to allow to be destroyed. Looks like I'm going to need to convince myself I 'want' some of my would-be merchants dead, and war with one of these races. Oh goodie.
Post by: Jilladilla on March 16, 2012, 05:13:56 am
Post by: Imp on March 17, 2012, 01:05:14 am
I've seen about 4-5x the frequency of those guys than other prodigies... started a 'start now' embark and got 1 among the starting 7 (with a skill level of 15 - they all are appearing with that), my embark where the merchants fought each other had a total of 4 immigrants arrive (out of a total of 60 dwarves) that were level 15 in crossbowmaking, two other games have seen a level 15-skilled crossbow maker in the first or second immigrant waves... I am getting the other types of prodigies, but very, very rarely, especially compared to the crossbow makers.
Post by: Pan on March 17, 2012, 01:54:18 am
Post by: vorpal+5 on March 17, 2012, 06:56:04 am
Post by: Stirk on March 17, 2012, 11:54:56 am
Quote
Bug? Vanguard Rubble seems to be stockpiled with others stones, and don't have a category on its own in the stone stockpile...
I thought it was piled with metal ores. I will check on this in a second...
And I checked on it. Your right, it doesn't have it's own stockpile in the stones as far as I can see.
Post by: vorpal+5 on March 17, 2012, 11:57:32 am
Plus think of it, a wooden cage? Any goblin thief can cut through it in a matter of minute realistically, with his dagger.
Post by: Stirk on March 17, 2012, 12:04:04 pm
Quote
Would it be possible to have cage made only of a few metal and not wood? I know this can seems extreme but frankly cage traps are just too good right now. Or they must fail to capture quite often but I don't think you can mod that.
There is a fix to that, in this mod we call them "Voidwalkers". They have trap avoid, so no cage traps can stop them. Or anything else.
But if you don't want to use wooden cage traps, no one is stopping you. Just use metal cage traps then. There is really no reason not to if you want that, and it would have the role playing aspect...
I always thought that the cages where pretty thick, like solid oak door thick, and to small for something like a bog troll to swing it's axe efficiently.
Post by: Imp on March 17, 2012, 12:06:48 pm
Would it be possible to have cage made only of a few metal and not wood? I know this can seems extreme but frankly cage traps are just too good right now. Or they must fail to capture quite often but I don't think you can mod that.
Plus think of it, a wooden cage? Any goblin thief can cut through it in a matter of minute realistically, with his dagger.
You can give trapavoid to any enemy you want to not be affected by cage traps; you can limit yourself in where you place them/what materials you make them from.
Over time, a player who uses cages for their primary defense will still have to deal with ever-increasing hordes of enemies who can and will overwhelm their traps -
Leaders tend to get caught before the rest of the squad, then that rest of squad stands around near the leader, often not getting trapped but dangerous to any dwarf trying to go reload traps/carry trapped units to wherever they must be dealt with -
Future waves of attackers can come before you've gotten those traps needing reloading/partially untrapped squads clustering around your trap fields sorted out, compounding and increasing the problem until your trap field is overwhelmed -
How much wood do you really have for cages? How fast can you make and reload them (or even when you can recover the trapped, can you kill/otherwise empty those cages in time to use them again before the field gets overwhelmed? -
Have you spotted those sneaking units that release caged enemies yet? Leave your traps on the field for to long (maybe because they are being guarded by partially trapped squads) and you'll end up with something invisible and trap immune moving across the field and releasing everything that's caged out there - squad leaders, when released, may start to run off, but others continue the attack.... helping add to the overwhelming of the trap field (and continuing to be released again and again as needed) until your cage traps are not seeming very overpowered at all.
Granted, these things are more an issue after the first few years of play. Early on, your 1-2 ambush squads of goblins are getting easily countered and sure, it looks op. Continuing to maintain that level of 'perfect defense' as time passes becomes steadily more logistically challenging!
Post by: Meph on March 17, 2012, 12:56:06 pm
Quote
Have you spotted those sneaking units that release caged enemies yet? Leave your traps on the field for to long (maybe because they are being guarded by partially trapped squads) and you'll end up with something invisible and trap immune moving across the field and releasing everything that's caged out thereWhat ? You dont mean the lizard spies I hope, since they cant come close to goblins and are not invisible. Do goblin thieves do this ?
Post by: Imp on March 17, 2012, 02:24:06 pm
QuoteHave you spotted those sneaking units that release caged enemies yet? Leave your traps on the field for to long (maybe because they are being guarded by partially trapped squads) and you'll end up with something invisible and trap immune moving across the field and releasing everything that's caged out thereWhat ? You dont mean the lizard spies I hope, since they cant come close to goblins and are not invisible. Do goblin thieves do this ?
It's not a unique LoFR feature, I first saw it happen in unmodded DF, back in... two major versions of DF ago, soon after I started playing. Gives the message "Something has emptied a cage!", and sure enough a dratted cage is now empty and the enemy free. This only happens to me infrequently, and only when I've had loaded cages outside my defense perimeter for a while - I've gotten better at rapidly storing used cages and reloading cage traps, so this almost never happens to me anymore. I'm guessing it's master thieves that do this, unsure if race matters. When I have time (tonight maybe?) I'll try to set up a test to verify this still happens in this version of DF, because I became so determined to prevent these releases that I'll use elaborate ruses and multiple entrances and whatever it takes to quickly retrieve and reload these cages that I actually can't verify this is still in the current version of DF. Unless someone else can confirm they've seen it happen?
Post by: trees on March 17, 2012, 03:13:02 pm
It's not a unique LoFR feature, I first saw it happen in unmodded DF, back in... two major versions of DF ago, soon after I started playing.
Sounds like a gremlin to me. They have the [MISCHIEVOUS] token, which makes them sneak in to your fort to pull levers, open cages, jump on pressure plates and such. They were much more common in 2D DF due to how they could just appear out of the chasm and be in the middle of your fortress. Since at least .31 (and maybe 40d?) they've been much more rare:
Code: (from CREATURE:GREMLIN) [Select]
[BIOME:SUBTERRANEAN_CHASM]
[UNDERGROUND_DEPTH:1:3]
[POPULATION_NUMBER:1:1]
Post by: Imp on March 17, 2012, 03:23:03 pm
It's not a unique LoFR feature, I first saw it happen in unmodded DF, back in... two major versions of DF ago, soon after I started playing.
Sounds like a gremlin to me. They have the [MISCHIEVOUS] token, which makes them sneak in to your fort to pull levers, open cages, jump on pressure plates and such. They were much more common in 2D DF due to how they could just appear out of the chasm and be in the middle of your fortress. Since at least .31 (and maybe 40d?) they've been much more rare:Code: (from CREATURE:GREMLIN) [Select][BIOME:SUBTERRANEAN_CHASM]
[UNDERGROUND_DEPTH:1:3]
[POPULATION_NUMBER:1:1]
This may have been it. Seems like any modder who wished could use some classes of invader units that had the MISCHIEVOUS tag to possibly make static/cage based defenses much more complex to use well, at least sometimes. When I can, I'll still try to test and make sure my traps wont be emptied if I leave them vulnerable, would be nice to know that I don't have to hustle as much as I'd learned I had to!
Post by: Stirk on March 17, 2012, 04:25:41 pm
Do you think we could have some kind of "Fire fighter" in the science tree? Somehow my stalk pile of wooden bins has set on fire, I already lost several people and ten master crafted items, and the fire rages on, right after a goblin siege to...
I am not sure how a firefighter would work exactly. Maybe a one-tile thing that acts as a sprinkler, putting out any fire that would start withing ten squares or something? It would just be nice to have some way of putting out fires with all the fires in this mod.
Post by: Teneb on March 17, 2012, 04:52:55 pm
Post by: Pan on March 17, 2012, 07:01:45 pm
QuoteHave you spotted those sneaking units that release caged enemies yet? Leave your traps on the field for to long (maybe because they are being guarded by partially trapped squads) and you'll end up with something invisible and trap immune moving across the field and releasing everything that's caged out thereWhat ? You dont mean the lizard spies I hope, since they cant come close to goblins and are not invisible. Do goblin thieves do this ?
It's not a unique LoFR feature, I first saw it happen in unmodded DF, back in... two major versions of DF ago, soon after I started playing. Gives the message "Something has emptied a cage!", and sure enough a dratted cage is now empty and the enemy free. This only happens to me infrequently, and only when I've had loaded cages outside my defense perimeter for a while - I've gotten better at rapidly storing used cages and reloading cage traps, so this almost never happens to me anymore. I'm guessing it's master thieves that do this, unsure if race matters. When I have time (tonight maybe?) I'll try to set up a test to verify this still happens in this version of DF, because I became so determined to prevent these releases that I'll use elaborate ruses and multiple entrances and whatever it takes to quickly retrieve and reload these cages that I actually can't verify this is still in the current version of DF. Unless someone else can confirm they've seen it happen?
If this is true, then I will place my watchers near the levers and caged stockpiles. Wouldn't want a prison break after a bog troll siege....
Post by: wyrdness on March 18, 2012, 12:08:04 am
Wow. Fire is REALLY common in this mod. I thought this was because I was trying to use emberlights, but now I kind of doubt that...
A lot of my fires are by thieves that have been spotted in crowded areas. They seem to set a fire (I think of them as smoke bombs) to help them get away, or maybe as revenge, I'm not entirely sure. It's very annoying when it happens to me on an early fort before I've managed to put up all my outside walls and still have outside stockpiles of wood because it can quickly turning in to a destructive map wide fire wave.
Post by: Jilladilla on March 18, 2012, 12:27:50 am
as such it's prolly best to keep them inside away from the food stockpile until you deploy them
Post by: Imp on March 18, 2012, 12:29:26 am
Wow. Fire is REALLY common in this mod. I thought this was because I was trying to use emberlights, but now I kind of doubt that...
A lot of my fires are by thieves that have been spotted in crowded areas. They seem to set a fire (I think of them as smoke bombs) to help them get away, or maybe as revenge, I'm not entirely sure. It's very annoying when it happens to me on an early fort before I've managed to put up all my outside walls and still have outside stockpiles of wood because it can quickly turning in to a destructive map wide fire wave.
Am curious - do you both have Emberlights and/or flamey zingers?
I've had 0 trouble with unexplained fires, and almost no trouble -ever- with fires. I've had fires start because of fire imps (back a version ago or so). I've watched firesnakes in my booze stockpile and had a fit, though no fire started.
I've had units spot scores of thieves, but never seen a 'smoke bomb' or any fires start.
I suspect you have emberlights, and should a thief or something be spotted, the emberlights ensure that shortly later you have fire(s). Or an enemy kills a flamey zinger, and then the zingers do their stuff.
Otherwise, I'm at a loss to explain why fire for me has been and remained totally non-existant in LoFR. (I rarely even reach magma, alas)
Post by: Pan on March 18, 2012, 01:19:32 am
Wow. Fire is REALLY common in this mod. I thought this was because I was trying to use emberlights, but now I kind of doubt that...
A lot of my fires are by thieves that have been spotted in crowded areas. They seem to set a fire (I think of them as smoke bombs) to help them get away, or maybe as revenge, I'm not entirely sure. It's very annoying when it happens to me on an early fort before I've managed to put up all my outside walls and still have outside stockpiles of wood because it can quickly turning in to a destructive map wide fire wave.
Guess you should store your large piece(s) of wood in a dark chamber instead of displaying it outside for any thief then... ;D
But really, how do thieves set fires? That's pretty strange. Maybe you have a alchemy workshop that made a bad experiment? Or a pyro zinger? Or is Narhiril not telling us something here?
Narhiril, what if I drafted a lizardman spy while he was still unexposed and sent him against a lizardman siege/ambush? I imagine he'll fight his brethren due to ingame mechanics recognizing him as part of your civ. How will this work out? Maybe give all lizardmen the ability to convert the spies to something friendly for them? Also, have you tested if the [MISCHIEVOUS] tag will actually work when applied to a friendly dwarf part of your civ?
I smell a new version coming up, too, and with it the clothing bug will be gone. Is simplified clothing going to be compatible with it?
Post by: Jilladilla on March 18, 2012, 01:32:44 am
Post by: SirAaronIII on March 18, 2012, 02:29:04 am
Or if they don't get friendly at all, then maybe the spy just has a huge grude on a lot of its kind.
Post by: wyrdness on March 18, 2012, 03:31:42 am
Am curious - do you both have Emberlights and/or flamey zingers?
I suspect you have emberlights, and should a thief or something be spotted, the emberlights ensure that shortly later you have fire(s). Or an enemy kills a flamey zinger, and then the zingers do their stuff.
Otherwise, I'm at a loss to explain why fire for me has been and remained totally non-existant in LoFR. (I rarely even reach magma, alas)
As I often never get around to building a temple I doubt it's emberlights. A couple of times I'm sure it has been zinger pets brought in by migrants but there have been times when I had no zingers of any kind and it has happened.
Guess you should store your large piece(s) of wood in a dark chamber instead of displaying it outside for any thief then... ;D
But really, how do thieves set fires? That's pretty strange. Maybe you have a alchemy workshop that made a bad experiment? Or a pyro zinger? Or is Narhiril not telling us something here?
Pah! Where's the fun in that? :p
I'm a slow builder and half the time I never even get around to building temples or alchemy labs before I have a major fort implosion. It's also definitely not anything magma related as I have yet to dig that far and I hang around close to the surface. Unless I've had emberlights migrate to my fort and never noticed then I'm at a loss as well. Next time it happens I'll check all my nearby dwarves as well to make sure. Though I'd like to add that it's pretty uncommon too, it's not like every time I've had a thief I've also had raging fires.
Post by: Jilladilla on March 18, 2012, 04:57:50 am
Narhiril not telling us something here?
Post by: narhiril on March 18, 2012, 02:41:23 pm
hmm... i would guess the remaining cases would be explained by an alter or...
Narhiril not telling us something here?
I can say for certain that there isn't any hidden feature that would be causing this. Sorry to burst that bubble. :)
Could something have happened to change the frequency of projectile prodigies?
I've seen about 4-5x the frequency of those guys than other prodigies... started a 'start now' embark and got 1 among the starting 7 (with a skill level of 15 - they all are appearing with that), my embark where the merchants fought each other had a total of 4 immigrants arrive (out of a total of 60 dwarves) that were level 15 in crossbowmaking, two other games have seen a level 15-skilled crossbow maker in the first or second immigrant waves... I am getting the other types of prodigies, but very, very rarely, especially compared to the crossbow makers.
Pure coincidence. I haven't done anything to make these any more or less common.
Narhiril, what if I drafted a lizardman spy while he was still unexposed and sent him against a lizardman siege/ambush? I imagine he'll fight his brethren due to ingame mechanics recognizing him as part of your civ. How will this work out? Maybe give all lizardmen the ability to convert the spies to something friendly for them? Also, have you tested if the [MISCHIEVOUS] tag will actually work when applied to a friendly dwarf part of your civ?
I smell a new version coming up, too, and with it the clothing bug will be gone. Is simplified clothing going to be compatible with it?
He would fight his bretheren in order to maintain his disguise. When they go undercover, they go deep undercover. ;)
I have admittedly not actually tested the MISCHIEVOUS tag thoroughly on civ members. Maybe it will work, maybe it won't, but since it's used as a flag for watchers, I don't have much choice in the matter.
Also, simplified clothing will continue to be supported in the upcoming versions. Clothing is still a ton of clutter for your dwarves to manage and a performance nightmare for your CPU, so I will keep SC going to help with these issues.
How's the mod progress going these days, Narhiril? Been a rather quiet few days - not sure if ominous or exciting.
Ominous, unfortunately. I have a pretty nasty eye infection at the moment that is preventing me from staring at my computer screen as much as I would like to. Fortunately, I've seen someone about it and I have a prescription for it, so I should be getting better and more active over the next few days.
Post by: Stirk on March 18, 2012, 06:00:39 pm
I will assume the only thing to be done about them is to create an elite lizard man army, who is kept apart from the normal fortress by locked doors, and is feed by a chute. I then would release them on any invasions.
Post by: Undeadlord on March 18, 2012, 07:42:59 pm
Post by: Pan on March 18, 2012, 08:14:01 pm
hmm... i would guess the remaining cases would be explained by an alter or...
Narhiril not telling us something here?
I can say for certain that there isn't any hidden feature that would be causing this. Sorry to burst that bubble. :)Could something have happened to change the frequency of projectile prodigies?
I've seen about 4-5x the frequency of those guys than other prodigies... started a 'start now' embark and got 1 among the starting 7 (with a skill level of 15 - they all are appearing with that), my embark where the merchants fought each other had a total of 4 immigrants arrive (out of a total of 60 dwarves) that were level 15 in crossbowmaking, two other games have seen a level 15-skilled crossbow maker in the first or second immigrant waves... I am getting the other types of prodigies, but very, very rarely, especially compared to the crossbow makers.
Pure coincidence. I haven't done anything to make these any more or less common.
Narhiril, what if I drafted a lizardman spy while he was still unexposed and sent him against a lizardman siege/ambush? I imagine he'll fight his brethren due to ingame mechanics recognizing him as part of your civ. How will this work out? Maybe give all lizardmen the ability to convert the spies to something friendly for them? Also, have you tested if the [MISCHIEVOUS] tag will actually work when applied to a friendly dwarf part of your civ?
I smell a new version coming up, too, and with it the clothing bug will be gone. Is simplified clothing going to be compatible with it?
He would fight his bretheren in order to maintain his disguise. When they go undercover, they go deep undercover. ;)
I have admittedly not actually tested the MISCHIEVOUS tag thoroughly on civ members. Maybe it will work, maybe it won't, but since it's used as a flag for watchers, I don't have much choice in the matter.
Perhaps give lizardman spies some tags to make them dumb, slow learning and unsociable? I mean, it would be rather stupid to have a lizardman spy rise into the position of king in world gen. And since they are lizardmen savages, they shouldn't exactly be producing masterwork crafts and weapons. Since they are spying, they shouldn't be partying hard and socialising with other dwarves, no?
As for the thing with the other lizardmen - maybe let all the lizardman have a spell like the watcher that exposes their brethren on sight? I mean, the deeply commited thing you mentioned sounds like a handwave on something that just doesn't make much sense...
Hope your eyes get better soon, Narhiril. Computer deprivation is a terrible thing.
Post by: Stirk on March 18, 2012, 09:10:23 pm
Quote
Quick question, building the Temple of Water, trying to build a set of consecrated materials, it asks for a bucket of water. How do I make a bucket of water? Dwarves usually only fill a bucket of water when someone needs a drink or a wash. Atleast as far as I can figure. Any help on this?
I just used the prayer of sustenance or whatever it is called, the minor prayer that fills a bucket with water.
Post by: Jilladilla on March 18, 2012, 09:48:58 pm
QuoteQuick question, building the Temple of Water, trying to build a set of consecrated materials, it asks for a bucket of water. How do I make a bucket of water? Dwarves usually only fill a bucket of water when someone needs a drink or a wash. Atleast as far as I can figure. Any help on this?
I just used the prayer of sustenance or whatever it is called, the minor prayer that fills a bucket with water.
just make sure your coal/wood stockpile isnt near it just in case
Post by: Atlan on March 18, 2012, 10:18:50 pm
Post by: astianax on March 18, 2012, 11:03:16 pm
said emberlight has killed many, many things for me with those random gouts of flame, even though she's not in the military. i've gone ahead and built a grid of sorts over my whole map, using constructed floors to keep the fires contained, since they won't burn past said floors
Post by: wyrdness on March 19, 2012, 01:47:10 am
i just want to verify that you can, indeed, get the occasional emberlight without every performing the ritual. for this, there has to be at least one created in your worldgen (my current one has 3 emberlights, one of whom is a vampire) and one of them showed up as a migrant. rather surprising (and, sadly, it wasn't the vampire)
I've just downloaded the latest pre-installed version of this mod and I haven't had any random fires yet. I'm beginning to think that perhaps it was an emberlight migrant. Since I often get migrant waves of 20-50 at a time I don't always have time to check them all thoroughly and tend to leave them as part time haulers until I need a particular profession. It was probably just a coincidence that I always saw the thief first. :)
Post by: SirAaronIII on March 19, 2012, 01:53:19 am
I could swear bowyer prodigies are at least twice as common as any other savant type.It feels like this for me, too. Once I even embarked with one.
Post by: Undeadlord on March 19, 2012, 08:56:14 am
QuoteQuick question, building the Temple of Water, trying to build a set of consecrated materials, it asks for a bucket of water. How do I make a bucket of water? Dwarves usually only fill a bucket of water when someone needs a drink or a wash. Atleast as far as I can figure. Any help on this?
I just used the prayer of sustenance or whatever it is called, the minor prayer that fills a bucket with water.
Post by: Pan on March 19, 2012, 09:31:23 am
I could swear bowyer prodigies are at least twice as common as any other savant type.It feels like this for me, too. Once I even embarked with one.
On the plus side, your archers have better range! Or so high quality crossbows are supposed to.
Post by: simonthedwarf on March 19, 2012, 11:11:11 am
Post by: narhiril on March 19, 2012, 01:13:47 pm
Interesting, what would happen if a lizard dwarf died and was not properly memorialized? Would it still bring up a ghost? And how do it's friends and family feel about you killing him? I would imagine not to well... And can they still have children with dwarves?
I will assume the only thing to be done about them is to create an elite lizard man army, who is kept apart from the normal fortress by locked doors, and is feed by a chute. I then would release them on any invasions.
They're sterile and assume false identities, like vampires, so you won't see them having children or causing loyalty cascades. It would still bring up a ghost, however, if you don't memorialize them - the ghost of the original dwarf who was smitten by a divine power and replaced with a lizardman in disguise.
The mountainhomes are obsessed with bowyers these days
How many of these are bowyer prodigies and how many of them are just skilled bowyers? You can tell a true savant by the description. They have the same POP_RATIO as every other savant caste, so I don't know why they'd be so common across the board.
Perhaps give lizardman spies some tags to make them dumb, slow learning and unsociable? I mean, it would be rather stupid to have a lizardman spy rise into the position of king in world gen. And since they are lizardmen savages, they shouldn't exactly be producing masterwork crafts and weapons. Since they are spying, they shouldn't be partying hard and socialising with other dwarves, no?
As for the thing with the other lizardmen - maybe let all the lizardman have a spell like the watcher that exposes their brethren on sight? I mean, the deeply commited thing you mentioned sounds like a handwave on something that just doesn't make much sense...
Hope your eyes get better soon, Narhiril. Computer deprivation is a terrible thing.
I like the ideas of slower learning and social awkwardness, but here's the problem I have with the "expose" interaction - I can turn anything into anything else, but I can't add it to the entity of the attacking lizardman army, so even if I did create a watcher-type interaction for lizardmen to reveal a spy, the lizardman army would not recognize it as friendly. It makes more sense for the spy to be deep undercover and even willing to assume the role of a soldier than for him to get cut to ribbons by his own people at the time when he could, potentially, be most useful to them.
Post by: Meph on March 19, 2012, 02:58:23 pm
Post by: Atlan on March 19, 2012, 03:39:52 pm
How many of these are bowyer prodigies and how many of them are just skilled bowyers? You can tell a true savant by the description. They have the same POP_RATIO as every other savant caste, so I don't know why they'd be so common across the board.They're most definitely savants. I started with one in my embark, and I've gotten 2 immigrated. No other savants to speak of, and last game I had 4 immigrants that were bowyers, 1 armorsmith, 1 glassmaker.
Post by: Draxis on March 19, 2012, 07:18:16 pm
Post by: Pan on March 19, 2012, 07:49:43 pm
Did you get positive feedback from your tests with mischivious ?This is what I'd like to know, too.
Post by: narhiril on March 20, 2012, 12:05:05 am
Did you get positive feedback from your tests with mischivious ?This is what I'd like to know, too.
Still in progress, but no dice so far. I might have to scrap the idea of lever pulling (which is unfortunate). The spies will still be pretty dangerous since they'll go around poisoning your citizens with all sorts of nasty stuff until they get caught, but the mischievous token might only serve as a flag for watchers to expose them and a solemn reminder of what (almost) could have been.
Post by: Imp on March 20, 2012, 12:53:28 am
Did you get positive feedback from your tests with mischivious ?This is what I'd like to know, too.
Still in progress, but no dice so far. I might have to scrap the idea of lever pulling (which is unfortunate). The spies will still be pretty dangerous since they'll go around poisoning your citizens with all sorts of nasty stuff until they get caught, but the mischievous token might only serve as a flag for watchers to expose them and a solemn reminder of what (almost) could have been.
Narhiril.... could these spies, um.... let the cat out of the bag, so to speak?
That is... could they have a reaction they can do autonomously, irregularly, and infrequently, that spawns a gremlin or other more-appropriate creature with similar abilities? Maybe they summon it, maybe they 'sneak it in', maybe they brought a few 'fertile and periodically hatching eggs' of this creature with them hidden in their clothing, or maybe invoke a blessing from their malevolent god to open a gate for it (them! The horror of a horde sometimes, perhaps!)
And maybe these 'things' would sometimes be spawned inside the fortress right where they need to be to do considerable mischief on their own? (I say sometimes, because if it's happening randomly, it could also happen out in the willywags when you send Alfric Mclizardspy out to do herbalism or something - but sometimes it's going to be in the worst places possible and at the worst time. Murphy's law and all)
Post by: Vanaheimer on March 20, 2012, 01:40:24 am
I figure I'll be butchered in about twenty minutes.
Post by: Cyco_Chicken on March 20, 2012, 02:37:59 am
Post by: Imp on March 20, 2012, 03:04:50 am
I don't know how to make a slab of of accreditation and it's driving me crazy! But other than that great mod
Try doing some of the things that the level 1 tech buildings let you do - if you have orchalchum and have made your first set of precision tools from that in your alchemy lab, get an advanced mechanics workshop up - this will allow you to make additional precision tools from more metals than just orchalchum - and some advanced mechanisms.
Once you have a slew of those, try building some of the workshops that need a few of them - morgues, mechanical sparring dummies, medical training dummies, and more can produce such slabs.
Have fun!
Post by: narhiril on March 20, 2012, 12:54:50 pm
I don't know how to make a slab of of accreditation and it's driving me crazy! But other than that great mod
Any training workshop will produce these upon a successful training session. That means...
Orrery
Mechanical Sparring Partner
Mechanical Obstacle Course
Medical Training Dummy
Morgue
The more you use those workshops, the more slabs you'll have on hand to put towards advancing the tech tree to tier two. Slabs of accreditation don't have a reagent or even a material (this was done to prevent dwarves from filling your finished goods stockpiles with the damn things) - they exist purely as "proof" of training, which the reaction needs to produce experience.
As you might imagine, these tend to pile up quickly if you have more than one training workshop running full time, which is where the "document alchemical research" reaction comes in at the alchemy lab to get rid of them and produce tier two advances. You can also get rid of them a bit more efficiently with a trash compactor, but this is really just to give players an option to cut down on the labor overhead for training once everything in tier two is unlocked.
---
I am actually considering a revision to this system to make these slabs obsolete as a means of simplifying an admittedly complex tech tree. What I would do is replace the slabs with "stones of enlightenment" (which are already defined) which vaporize harmlessly upon creation and then move the tier two advancement reaction to the advanced mechanics workshop under a new premise. The only two things stopping me from doing this are (1) I don't know what kind of performance hit a bunch of workshops spamming boiling stones would be and (2) the current system has been around for so long and is so ingrained in the documentation and community that attempting to simplify it now might just further complicate it.
---
I'm not ignoring you, Imp, I just don't have time right now for a sufficiently thorough and properly formulated response right now. I'll get back to you on that.
Post by: Imp on March 20, 2012, 02:27:19 pm
(this was done to prevent dwarves from filling your finished goods stockpiles with the damn things)...
(2) the current system has been around for so long and is so ingrained in the documentation and community that attempting to simplify it now might just further complicate it.
For me personally, I would not mind a change to this system. I actualy dislike that I cannot tell my dwarves to move these things around except by dumping (This requires me to keep part of my attention on how long ago/how full up these shops are getting, as clutter appears to slow these workshops just like any other, so I have to directly 'clean them out' over and over again or enjoy the reduced performance if I don't) ; I would enjoy being able to make a dedicated stockpile that accepted just them - I'd even accept if I couldn't isolate them completely.
I have no idea what the boiling stone FPS affect would be, save that trapping a few dozen voidwalkers and killing them simultaneously in a droptrap works without any problems I can detect; all their stones boil away that instant (it's really pretty too!) and their severed bodyparts fall back down and my dwarves run to clean it all up, just like I want them to.
But I'd not miss these slabs of accumulation, personally ;D, as long as I could achieve the good they allow (tech advances) in some other way.
Post by: narhiril on March 20, 2012, 06:40:46 pm
Like so many other things, I'm not sure if this is a bug or intended behavior, but it throws a pretty big wrench into both paragon healing interactions and lizardman spy interactions which I'm not sure I'm clever enough to work around.
I'm going to go ahead and ask around to see what kind of response I get from the powers that be, but lizardman spies might have to be shelved for a little while if my workaround causes too many problems. I have a workaround for the spies at least, but it's very, very messy, and I'd really prefer not to have to use it.
Hopefully I'll be back with some better news next time.
Post by: Meph on March 20, 2012, 07:37:26 pm
Or the watcher can only affect creatures with a certain syndrome active, and your lizardman spy curse would also give the creature this syndrome. Like: Speed percentage 100, with start 0 and no end. This way the watcher will only target the spies.
Post by: narhiril on March 20, 2012, 08:07:04 pm
You can always do the lizard men spies and the paragons by caste definition, not by syndrome effects/curses, as I do.
Or the watcher can only affect creatures with a certain syndrome active, and your lizardman spy curse would also give the creature this syndrome. Like: Speed percentage 100, with start 0 and no end. This way the watcher will only target the spies.
As far as I know, you can't do that, though. You can use syndrome classes as forbid conditions for interactions, but not as requirements, unless there is some token that I am not aware of that allows this. If you've gotten that to work, can you send me an example?
\
Hopefully I'll be back with some better news next time.
I figured out why spirit binders weren't building towers in worldgen, so that will be fixed for this next release. Most of you probably haven't even heard of spirit binders (they're a custom secret), but I've been silently fiddling with them for weeks now and they're getting pretty exciting. Also, I learned how to add custom speech to interactions, so brace yourselves - LFR adventure mode is about to get a lot more FUN.
Yay for good news. :)
Some of you might appreciate this. I'm actually writing from a class, at the moment, but I can't understand a word my professor is saying (really, really thick accent) and I can't see a damn thing out of my right eye, so this is probably the most productive thing I could reasonably be doing at the moment. Don't worry, I read the book. ^_^
Post by: Meph on March 20, 2012, 08:20:16 pm
In short:
give all creatures but the spy a specific class
make the class immune to the interaction
This way only the spy can be targeted.
Post by: narhiril on March 20, 2012, 08:30:39 pm
You can use it in reverse. Give it [IT_IMMUNE_CLASS:GENERAL_POISON] , or any other tag that every creatures has (or restrict it to dwarves with syn_affected_class on the syndrome) and then DONT give the spy the general_poison class. Or whatever you choose to use as class.
In short:
give all creatures but the spy a specific class
make the class immune to the interaction
This way only the spy can be targeted.
IT_AFFECTED_CLASS accomplishes the same thing with less mucking about in other creature files.
The problem lies in actually giving the spy that specific class since the spy has to initially receive the class through the curse interaction's syndrome - as far as I know, this can only be done with a body transformation, and this would muck up the body transformation portion of the exposure interaction since body transformations don't play well with each other.
I could work around this using castes and a body transformation, but it will result in the transformation into an actual lizardman (the removal of the "disguise") not working, and you'll simply get a crazed spy (still in his disguise) with the "spy" suffix appended to his job title. Unfortunately, I might have to go that route. Using a token as a flag was a much more elegant solution, if only it worked properly.
The best solution would be for there to a be another token that was the reverse of IT_CANNOT_HAVE_SYNDROME_CLASS, but there isn't, even though I've been lobbying (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=103879.0) for one.
Post by: Meph on March 20, 2012, 08:44:18 pm
I spend yesterday evening trying to make creatures in workshops, everything from creating eggs (unfertilized, dont hatch), to direct pets/vermin version of creatures (crashes the game after you deconstruct the workshop) over transforming vermin (cant get rid of the vermin tag)... nothing did work.
Anyway, now I understand what you mean. But you still can go the way with the transformation to an actual lizard, since you can restrict to only work on a special caste. The syndrome, not sure about the interaction. Watcher "scans nearest dwarf" will work on all of them, but only the lizardman spy reacts upon it by transforming. I am fairly certain of that, since it would work on my secret castes as well. Still not as elegant as a curse, but hidden caste works. The therapist patch reads out the caste name btw, so you could just name them dwarves, to not give them away in the therapist.
Post by: narhiril on March 20, 2012, 08:48:36 pm
yeah, IT_MUST_HAVE_SYNROME_CLASS would be nice.
I spend yesterday evening trying to make creatures in workshops, everything from creating eggs (unfertilized, dont hatch), to direct pets/vermin version of creatures (crashes the game after you deconstruct the workshop) over transforming vermin (cant get rid of the vermin tag)... nothing did work.
Anyway, now I understand what you mean. But you still can go the way with the transformation to an actual lizard, since you can restrict to only work on a special caste. The syndrome, not sure about the interaction. Watcher "scans nearest dwarf" will work on all of them, but only the lizardman spy reacts upon it by transforming. I am fairly certain of that, since it would work on my secret castes as well. Still not as elegant as a curse, but hidden caste works. The therapist patch reads out the caste name btw, so you could just name them dwarves, to not give them away in the therapist.
Well, if I use a curse, I get assumed identities at the expense of no lizardman transformation on "reveal." If I use a rare caste, I get lizardman transformations, but also immigrants and babies born as spies which cause loyalty cascades when killed. I don't really like either of those options, but that's unfortunately the way it's turning out.
Post by: Meph on March 20, 2012, 08:51:10 pm
Post by: narhiril on March 20, 2012, 08:55:46 pm
You dont get loyality cascades if they turn berserk. :)
I still don't like the idea of a newborn dwarf poisoning his mother before he can understand coherent speech. I can't restrict interactions by age, unfortunately. Which reminds me to throw that into the suggestion thread...
... And I just thought of a way to work around the baby issue. :D
Post by: Meph on March 20, 2012, 09:43:10 pm
Post by: narhiril on March 20, 2012, 10:02:56 pm
Please, enlighten me, since I have the same maniac babies. ;) Plan to give the interaction a wait time of a few years before the dwarf actually becomes a spy after immigrating/being born ? If this is all to spoilerific, you can leave me a PM :)
The problem is that the watchers will identify them years before they become threats. I feel like that makes it a little bit too easy.
Post by: narhiril on March 21, 2012, 10:49:18 am
I might (read: will) end up gutting the lizardman spy code entirely and re-working it under a new dwarven caste called a "saboteur." Saboteurs will develop a deep grudge against their own civilization at a young age, and will eventually start to sow chaos in your fortress by poisoning citizens and starting riots (yes, I can do this xD). Watchers will be able to point them out - that part will remain the same. How you deal with these guys is totally up to you, but they're going to be fairly uncommon - maybe even a little or a lot more so than vampires, depending on your worldgen settings. Which reminds me...
Since LFR is getting more reliant on displacing generated interactions and creatures, I will be packaging some custom world generation parameters for use with this mod. You are free to use these or ignore them completely - LFR will work just fine with the default ones, but these will make the new features a bit easier to find for those who want that. I've barely cracked the shell on secrets and curses so far, and I'm planning a few new weather effects as well.
I don't want to give too much away, but in the next release, you might want to try a fortress in an evil biome... or a good one. ;)
Also, I'm thinking of names for the new elemental units... it hit me today.... "stonekin" is pretty good for the earth units, and it's a nice little Guild Wars reference as well. Just don't expect them to get any overpowered shouts.
Planned abilities for stonekin and zephyrs...
Stonekin (units of Kerox):
"Rock blast" - hurl a stone at the enemy. Medium cooldown.
"Stone skin" - increase the toughness of nearby allies for a short time. Medium cooldown.
"Earth bind" - slow a large number of enemies by a moderate amount. Short cooldown.
"Entomb" - slow a single enemy by a very large amount. Long cooldown.
"Steadfast" - sharply decrease the effectiveness of metal weapons used against the stonekin for a short time. Long cooldown.
Natural skills - 6 concentration
Can be healed
Zephyrs (units of Lemox):
"Tailwind" - boost the speed of a nearby ally by a small amount for a medium duration. Very short cooldown.
"Headwind" - reduce the speed of a nearby enemy by a small amount for a moderate duration. Short cooldown.
"Sonic boom" - send a blast of air at the target to deal light damage and cause dizziness for a short duration. Very long range. Medium cooldown.
"Jet stream" - slightly increase the agility of nearby allies for a medium duration and grant dizziness immunity for a short duration. Medium cooldown.
Natural skills - 6 dodge, 8 archery, 8 throwing, 5 crossbow, 5 bow, 5 blowgun.
Can be healed*
---
Elemental units will also be getting "upgrade abilities" in tier four. I've been planning that for some time, but I've neglected to mention it. Here are some planned upgrades (these will be VERY expensive and a ways down the road)...
Emberlight warrior:
"Zalkor's inferno" - a massive, consuming blast of dragon fire. Long cooldown.
"Immolate" - causes a target (restricted to common enemies) to literally explode in a burst of intense flames. Short cooldown. Must be standing in magma to use. This one requires some testing.
Wavebreaker:
"Temanat's haze" - blinds enemies in a large area with a massive cloud of dense water vapor. Medium cooldown.
"Invoke blizzard" - a multiple-round salvo of "invoke hailstorm," firing a burst of ice blasts in rapid succession before a long cooldown. Yes, this actually works.
Stonekin:
"Ground dasher" - deals severe bleeding and impaired movement to any STANCE body parts of enemies in a small area for a moderate duration. Medium cooldown.
"Petrify" - turn an enemy (restricted to common enemies) into a stone for a medium duration. Long cooldown.
Zephyr:
"Invoke hurricane" - a multiple-target version of "sonic boom." Medium cooldown.
"Second wind" - sharply increase own agility and speed for a short duration. Medium cooldown.
Post by: SalmonGod on March 21, 2012, 01:15:47 pm
I've barely cracked the shell on secrets and curses so far, and I'm planning a few new weather effects as well.
I don't want to give too much away, but in the next release, you might want to try a fortress in an evil biome... or a good one. ;)
I've been playing exclusively in evil biomes since .34 came out and I love them.... except for the damn evil mist/fog! That stuff is waaaay too powerful. Is there any way you might be able to tone it down? Maybe make it so it's less than 100% chance of insta-converting/buffing anything it touches, and doesn't leave a residue so that your dwarves can actually fight whatever it converts without also being converted?
Post by: narhiril on March 21, 2012, 02:00:47 pm
I've barely cracked the shell on secrets and curses so far, and I'm planning a few new weather effects as well.
I don't want to give too much away, but in the next release, you might want to try a fortress in an evil biome... or a good one. ;)
I've been playing exclusively in evil biomes since .34 came out and I love them.... except for the damn evil mist/fog! That stuff is waaaay too powerful. Is there any way you might be able to tone it down? Maybe make it so it's less than 100% chance of insta-converting/buffing anything it touches, and doesn't leave a residue so that your dwarves can actually fight whatever it converts without also being converted?
LFR weather interactions will be both a lot more fun and a lot more interesting than generated ones. For me, "more fun" goes hand in hand with "less irritating." I tend to use contaminants very sparingly, so expect weather to bring more dynamics than just syndromes and contaminants. You'll see dust storms in deserts that reduce visibility, acid rain in evil biomes that eats away at the skin of unprotected creatures, and some other, even more massive surprises. Voidwalkers will get a buff in dark clouds of evil biomes, while the freezing rain of the tundras will sap the strength of the lizardmen. You might even get lucky and find some of LFR's newest and most ambitious secrets. Think something along the lines of meteor storms, resurrection mist, and rips in the fabric of the dimensions.
... But that's all I'm going to say about that. ^_^
Post by: Vanaheimer on March 21, 2012, 03:51:32 pm
I pity anyone who tries to build an above ground fortress.
Post by: narhiril on March 21, 2012, 03:59:07 pm
...meteor storms?
I pity anyone who tries to build an above ground fortress.
Yeah, that one needs some testing before I make it an official feature. ^_^
Post by: Teneb on March 21, 2012, 04:24:21 pm
Post by: Meph on March 21, 2012, 04:28:47 pm
Post by: narhiril on March 21, 2012, 04:31:07 pm
I like firestorms and blizzards, that use actually hot and cold materials for aboveground fires and frostbites.
Meteor storms will basically be flaming rocks raining from the sky. I doubt I can make them actually do damage on impact, but they'll cause all sorts of smoke, dust, fire, and havoc.
Post by: Stirk on March 21, 2012, 04:33:58 pm
Post by: Teneb on March 21, 2012, 04:37:51 pm
It would also be nice to have some weather that would not brutally murder you. Like good rain that does something like raise happiness or heals you? Maybe it would also weaken voidwalkers and empower the angel guys? Or clouds of cotton candy that come and....I don't know... not tear off your skin and turn you into an undead or burn you alive?
Good clouds that turn dorfs into
Post by: narhiril on March 21, 2012, 05:06:52 pm
It would also be nice to have some weather that would not brutally murder you. Like good rain that does something like raise happiness or heals you? Maybe it would also weaken voidwalkers and empower the angel guys? Or clouds of cotton candy that come and....I don't know... not tear off your skin and turn you into an undead or burn you alive?
Here's what I've got actually written and working so far...
Freezing rain is actually beneficial if you're fighting lizardmen, as it slows and weakens them. Dust storms affect friend and foe alike, impairing vision. Void mist clouds will weaken everyone except voidwalkers, who gain a slight buff from them instead.
Dust storms occur in deserts (except for good deserts), freezing rain occurs in tundra and glacier biomes of any alignment, and void mist occurs in evil biomes of all types.
Now... what I'm currently working with. Meteor storms will be exclusive to terrifying biomes and will rain smoke, fire, and dust. Resurrection mist will only occur very rarely in joyous biomes, and will bring both friend and foe back to life (I need to test and balance this one). There are also a few other, more unusual effects related to lore and other races, but I'm not going to reveal any more about those right now. ;)
Finally, there will be a very unusual effect that only occurs in evil biomes. The "mystery cloud" will have randomized effects that are mutually exclusive to each other, so everything that enters the cloud might get a different effect. Maybe part of your enemy's army will be turned to bunnies and frogs before your eyes, or maybe a lone peasant will be transformed into a raging megabeast... or given a terrifyingly powerful spell. Or transformed into a lizardman. Sooner or later, I'm going to turn SOMETHING into a lizardman.
Do you feel lucky?
Post by: Imp on March 21, 2012, 06:14:05 pm
Finally, there will be a very unusual effect that only occurs in evil biomes. The "mystery cloud" ... Do you feel lucky?
This sounds AWESOME.
I would deeply love to be able to do 'something' (ritual? ) that would allow one to cause some 'random happenings' either throughout the map or throughout a small range centered on a building, or maybe even (most awesomely) in some space that one could designate.
Like... a chaos seed, and once it ripens it... instead of becoming a plant, it becomes something that makes a "mystery cloud", or something that maybe could be stored in a (food?) stockpile, but if allowed to rot, will produce a mystery cloud around where it is (instead of miasma?) - which would allow us to play with it where farms could not be made, like on constructed floors or the middle of bridges or such.
This sounds AWESOME!
Post by: o_O[WTFace] on March 21, 2012, 07:01:04 pm
Post by: Jilladilla on March 21, 2012, 09:45:53 pm
That sounds like fun, different biomes will have real differences and gameplay effects. It isn't possible to add clouds and weather to the caverns is it?
why would the caverns have weather? they're underground!
Post by: Man of Paper on March 21, 2012, 09:48:06 pm
That sounds like fun, different biomes will have real differences and gameplay effects. It isn't possible to add clouds and weather to the caverns is it?
why would the caverns have weather? they're underground!
That's what'd make it neat. Especially in an evil biome, where dwarven blood rains from the ceiling of the cavern, pooling on the ground below.
Post by: Stirk on March 21, 2012, 10:18:44 pm
That sounds like fun, different biomes will have real differences and gameplay effects. It isn't possible to add clouds and weather to the caverns is it?
why would the caverns have weather? they're underground!
I can think of a few things that would go good underground, maybe gas leaks and the like in the form of cloud weather. Or locusts. Or something.
The weather does sound interesting...If it continues like that, I will just have to build a roof over the entire fort to keep everything out. Maybe sacrificing the occasional once-caged goblin to the weather, just 'cause.
Post by: Vanaheimer on March 21, 2012, 11:41:00 pm
Is this luck, or do most embark sites find valuable metals so quickly?
edit:
Abyssal Eye too O_o
Post by: Stirk on March 21, 2012, 11:58:20 pm
But the gold is easy to get if you abuse the magma alchemist labs after finding magma. 10 rocks and some time= gold bar, 10 magma alchemy labs, stout labor, and a good metal smith and you can make everyone an item out of pure gold, and have left over for export.
But really, metal is easy to get on this mod. Even if you embark somewhere with no iron, no flux, and only a vain of some galena, you can get pretty much unlimited iron by doing the ceremony of victory with lead goblets (I suggest not drinking from them...) and melting down the anvils, as well as getting some nice damascus steel swords and some steel runecloaks from it. The flux can be claimed from the fire temple, for free.
To recap, yes, if you have your metal on high, but yo don't really need it.
Post by: Vanaheimer on March 22, 2012, 12:08:55 am
Post by: Imp on March 22, 2012, 12:49:52 am
Alright. I was jumping for joy figuring I'd lucked out *chuckles*
You're playing this mod; you have indeed lucked out and shall surely find excessive luck of all possible varieties keeping you jumping on a very regular basis 8)
Post by: Vanaheimer on March 22, 2012, 12:53:22 am
I figured it'd be fun.
Post by: wyrdness on March 22, 2012, 01:18:20 am
Playing this mod and learning how to make a functioning fortress at the same time.
I figured it'd be fun.
That's pretty much what I did. Usually it all goes great... Until everything goes horribly, horribly wrong. So just like vanilla DF for me. ;D
Post by: Vanaheimer on March 22, 2012, 01:53:56 am
Playing this mod and learning how to make a functioning fortress at the same time.
I figured it'd be fun.
That's pretty much what I did. Usually it all goes great... Until everything goes horribly, horribly wrong. So just like vanilla DF for me. ;D
Precisely! And this mod has *More* ways for it to all go terribly wrong!
I'm just waiting until the voidwalkers take notice of one of more forts.
Post by: narhiril on March 22, 2012, 02:12:34 am
Watchers will point out saboteurs, marking them with a name and driving them to attack anything nearby. Since watchers are useless in combat, this means you'll need to have some sort of militia or war animal contingent with a watcher to "screen" incoming migrants... like checking passports. Watchers can point out a saboteur immediately - even before they start poisoning citizens. The piercing gaze of a watcher reveals the dark intention to commit treason in even the most secretive of hearts without fail.
Because saboteurs work using a curse interaction and a transformation, they are a sub-caste of dwarf. That being said, it is technically possible for a dwarf to be born a saboteur and begin poisoning other dwarves a month after its birth - however, this is so absurdly rare that it shouldn't ever become a significant issue. Assuming that pop ratio tokens are working as I have intended, the odds of a dwarf being born a saboteur are roughly one in a quarter million.
Playing this mod and learning how to make a functioning fortress at the same time.
I figured it'd be fun.
That's pretty much what I did. Usually it all goes great... Until everything goes horribly, horribly wrong. So just like vanilla DF for me. ;D
Precisely! And this mod has *More* ways for it to all go terribly wrong!
I'm just waiting until the voidwalkers take notice of one of more forts.
Because of the new ritual units being added in 0.16, voidwalkers will be getting their first basic spellcasters ("mistshrouds"), lizardmen will be getting short-range rock slings, and nephilim will be getting the ability to buff each other. With all of this on top of weather, secrets, and curses, things are about to get much more interesting.
Post by: Imp on March 22, 2012, 02:50:07 am
Assuming that pop ratio tokens are working as I have intended, the odds of a dwarf being born a saboteur are roughly one in a quarter million.
Egads, I hope very few Easter Eggs are -that- rare. This chance seems entirely acceptable to me (besides, we can always have a 'passport station' somewhere near our meetinghalls and main traffic stations; newboteurs could be pointed out in time to mebby save Mom if we wanted to try.
I've got quite a tale of woe to share, at least to me it's quite a tale of woe. It involves Emberlights, undead sieges, and the sneakiest kobolds ever... As well as far more savescumming than I'd usually want to use, but Embers are new to me.... It's longer than most tales so throwing in a spoiler.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: astianax on March 22, 2012, 04:31:21 am
anyway, i tried to come up with some ideas for good rains, but nothing at all came to mind, really, which is sad. mostly because (at the time, at least) we couldn't use the weather to make dwarves happier or heal them and those were the two places my mind kept going and not wanting to think anything more. very curious to see what else you'd managed to whip up
oh, and imp, emberlights get a high natural cooking skill, so may wanna double check any dwarf that shows up as a decent cook...it may be because they like burning everything they see. and, sadly, fire sucks against undead, as you discovered. people report them sitting happily at the bottom of pools of magma, burning for eternity. you may, however, want to start gridding your land like i mentioned before, to contain the spread of fires. unless, of course, you want the whole world to burn
Post by: Imp on March 22, 2012, 04:56:56 am
unless, of course, you want the whole world to burn
Just the undead part of it :'(
Thanks for the tips!
Post by: Pan on March 22, 2012, 06:27:41 am
...world to burn
Post by: narhiril on March 22, 2012, 01:43:55 pm
Assuming that pop ratio tokens are working as I have intended, the odds of a dwarf being born a saboteur are roughly one in a quarter million.
Egads, I hope very few Easter Eggs are -that- rare. This chance seems entirely acceptable to me (besides, we can always have a 'passport station' somewhere near our meetinghalls and main traffic stations; newboteurs could be pointed out in time to mebby save Mom if we wanted to try.
I've got quite a tale of woe to share, at least to me it's quite a tale of woe. It involves Emberlights, undead sieges, and the sneakiest kobolds ever... As well as far more savescumming than I'd usually want to use, but Embers are new to me.... It's longer than most tales so throwing in a spoiler.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Don't worry, I didn't make them that rare for them to be easter eggs - I made them that rare to come as close as I can to eliminating them from birth mechanics completely. I can personally assure you that I haven't added any feature that's anywhere near as rare as that - it would be no fun if nobody EVER saw it. ;)
Post by: Meph on March 22, 2012, 02:48:02 pm
But it was not a surprise that your cook was the emberlight, I had to grin when I read the natural skill in the emberlight raws...
PS: Thanks, I did not even know about that bug. After reading it I am so bold to add that it might be the same for transformed creatures. A creature without a tag that has been transformed into a creature with that tag will not be a valid target for the IT_REQUIRES:TAG. This is untested however.
PPS: My english is weird sometimes, after reading the sentence above I confused myself. I hope you understand what I wanted to say.
Post by: narhiril on March 22, 2012, 04:34:52 pm
I personally believe that the only thing worse then a zombie is a burning zombie. Every horror movie teaches you that ;)
But it was not a surprise that your cook was the emberlight, I had to grin when I read the natural skill in the emberlight raws...
PS: Thanks, I did not even know about that bug. After reading it I am so bold to add that it might be the same for transformed creatures. A creature without a tag that has been transformed into a creature with that tag will not be a valid target for the IT_REQUIRES:TAG. This is untested however.
PPS: My english is weird sometimes, after reading the sentence above I confused myself. I hope you understand what I wanted to say.
Two things. First, in response to the bold, I've actually tested that and found that this is NOT the case - it works as intended when using a transformation, just not with add/remove tag effects.
---
Now... the really exciting part.
I learned something really, really bizarre through performing some !!SCIENCE!!
I already know how to resurrect a dwarf and restore him/her to full health, but since this relies on a transformation, I figured that the full heal effect wouldn't work on a dwarf that had already been transformed. However, since the resurrection effect is different, I thought I'd give that a spin.
What I did was create a test interaction that allows a dwarf to permanently turn itself into an emberlight warrior. I then gave another (fireproof) dwarf a test interaction with only a resurrect effect... and an adamantine great axe. Controlling the second dwarf, I walked over to the first dwarf after he had transformed himself to an emberlight and lobbed his head off. After letting the head roll to a stop and stepping back a few paces, I revived the dwarf with the test resurrect skill. He awoke, arose, and I was able to see that his injuries were still persistant, as was his transformation to an emberlight warrior, and because he was missing his head, he died (again) a frame later. This is all going very much how I had expected.
Here, though, is where things got interesting. For the hell of it, I got rid of my test axedwarf (encased in obsidian) and spawned a dwarven spirit binder, which I immediately took control of.
Since spirit binders are a feature of LFR that currently isn't working outside of arena mode, I'll go ahead and explain. I've since managed to get these working and running in world gen, so you'll see them in the next release, but the gist of it is that a secret can be learned that imparts a sentient creature with the ability to heal itself completely and resurrect/fully heal others. Here's how that particular interaction works...
Spoiler: Spirit binder resurrect effect (click to show/hide)
The interaction resurrects the target and immediately turns it into a will o' wisp, healing all of its wounds when it changes back almost instantly (I chose the will o' wisp because it looks damn cool when you cast it). I assumed, since I was attempting to resurrect a creature that was already under the effect of a permanent transformation syndrome, I would get the same results as before - it would get up, realize it was missing its head, and instantly die again.
Here's the thing though - I was wrong.
Instead of the expected result, the resurrect effect - COMPLETE WITH THE WILL O' WISP TRANSFORMATION - worked. The dwarf got up, turned into a will o wisp, regenerated all of its body parts, reverted to a dwarf, and then immediately reverted to a (fully alive and healed) emberlight warrior. In a sense, I had just done a transformation over another transformation - something I was convinced could not be done.
---
Here's how (I think) it works - when a transformed dwarf dies, their corpse reverts to being a regular dwarf despite any transformation syndromes. However, since syndromes persist through death, the transformation effect is still very much there, but not able to work because the target isn't alive. When the dwarf was resurrected with the spirit binder's spell, the resurrect effect immediately added the syndrome that turns it into a will o' wisp, turning it into a will o' wisp before the existing emberlight transformation could kick in and turn it back into an emberlight - my guess is that the IE_IMMEDIATE tag was checked first. So, a frame later, the emberlight transformation syndrome realized that its target was alive again and queued itself back up, turning the dwarf into an emberlight warrior again as soon as the will o' wisp transformation effect ended.
I had resurrected and fully healed a dwarf already under the effects of a transformation through a loophole in the way the game handles death and transformations.
What does this mean? It means Paragons of Visthel are going to kick all sorts of ass, for one, but more importantly, it means that you can fully revive a dead transformed creature. I imagine that this knowledge will prove quite valuable to other modders who want to write their own secrets, curses, and magical abilities. So yeah, unfortunately, you still won't be able to heal a transformed creature with a short transform interaction while it's alive, but you CAN if it dies. Pretty sweet, eh?
Post by: Meph on March 22, 2012, 05:12:53 pm
This means that you can transform creatures several times, if you give them a syndrome that kills them first, then resurrects them into a new form. Nice find. :)
EDIT: btw, you might want to edit this line: [STRANGE_CLOUD:A_D:D_D:P:R] in your anouncements.txt in data/init. If you add a lot of strange weather to all sorts of biomes people might get fed up with the constant pausing. You just have to remove the : P : R in the end. People still get an anouncement, and if you leave the R it should still refocus on the cloud, but leave the game running.
Post by: Stirk on March 22, 2012, 05:44:41 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
So basically dwarves are now a race of immortals? I still am curios about this whole "Back from the dead" thing. Can dwarves be brought back if they died of old age? Does this mean that to defeat a fortress, you must murder every single dwarf?
I could see a ton of balancing issues with this. How expensive is the ceremony going to be?
I could see something playing out like this:
"Sir! Every race in the world has teamed up against us! Our military is being devoured and our people don't stand a chance!"
"Pull the bar of soap!"
"But sir that will..."
"I KNOW WHAT IT WILL DO! PULL THE BAR!"
(Bar gets pulled and the whole fortress crashes down)
"Sir...Everyone is dead!"
"Not exactly..."
(Vampire in a corner some where comes out of the door that just gets unlocked and revives all 200 citizens of the town)
"...."
"Back to work Sargent".
Post by: DustanH on March 22, 2012, 07:51:25 pm
Quote
"Sir! Every race in the world has teamed up against us! Our military is being devoured and our people don't stand a chance!"
"Pull the bar of soap!"
"But sir that will..."
"I KNOW WHAT IT WILL DO! PULL THE BAR!"
(Bar gets pulled and the whole fortress crashes down)
"Sir...Everyone is dead!"
"Not exactly..."
(Vampire in a corner some where comes out of the door that just gets unlocked and revives all 200 citizens of the town)
"...."
"Back to work Sargent".
ROFL that is great! too bad its too big for a sig...
Post by: narhiril on March 22, 2012, 09:03:46 pm
Paragons of Visthel will be effectively immortal as long as...
1) Their corpses are not destroyed.
2) You have a Bringer of Mercy (an upcoming tier four ritual unit) to revive them. These units are both very expensive and very dangerous to produce.
Paragons and Bringers of Mercy will not ever die of old age. It will be entirely possible (though very rare) to find a thousand year-old paragon in worldgen. They live until their bodies are utterly annihilated.
Post by: Stirk on March 22, 2012, 09:19:09 pm
How the the corpse-eaters doing? They sound powerful enough to take down a civilization easily with a siege, and I would assume that if they are common enough for immortality to be uncommon? I would assume that a huge force eating all the corpses of the dead would effectively keep immortals...mortal. Almost as well as the punishments for failing would.
Post by: Meph on March 22, 2012, 09:59:05 pm
Since the boiling stones dont work 100% of the time I will do the following to balance the reactions:
1. Create a special tool/toy/item out of many, expensive materials
2. Make the transformation reaction use that item, but preserve it.
3. Add a negative effect with the same chance as the transformation.
This way people still need to set up everything with the expensive stuff, but they dont lose it if the reaction is unsuccessful. The negative effect is added to stop people spamming it. I havent quite figured out everything, but this is the theory behind it. As you know I have 3 kinds of magic, I though black magic goes berserk/demon, fire/stone petrifies or sets on fire, and white magic... no idea yet.
Post by: Pan on March 23, 2012, 06:53:40 am
Post by: narhiril on March 23, 2012, 10:42:07 am
Ooh! New version! Will the files in this one be compatible if i copy and paste?
I'm foreseeing that the entity_default file is going to need some updating to accommodate the changes to the dungeon master, but since that's an incredibly minor issue, I think things will work fine for now if you just copy them over. If you really want, I think you can remove the entries for dungeon master and tax collector entirely. Also, successors should actually work now, in case you ever get that far. ;)
Personally, I can't even play until Dwarf Therapist is updated. I've gotten that reliant on it. >.<
Post by: Imp on March 23, 2012, 10:45:09 am
Finally, most of them were 'gone', except for some few... about 15 or so... who were not choosing to approach my temptingly open gates. Thinking that was really weird I finally zoomed to one - and saw them all lurking in various murky ponds. All the others had either wandered off the map (if they do that) or wandered into my trap/kill zone... but these lizardmen were maintaining the siege from semi-concealment (they were all quite visible, once accounting for z-level change) - very smart for some undead!
So I started designating jobs nearish the occupied ponds - the undead lizardmen would charge out and give chase, eventually following their prey back into the killing fields or else giving up the chase and heading.... back to a murky pond.
Until a goblin siege came. I ordered my dwarves to end these luring games and bottled up to see what would happen - still 10 or so lizardmen hither and yon...
The goblins went for them after my gates closed, and all but one were fairly rapidly laid to rest... that last one deciding it had had enough, and it -fled- the goblins, successfully pathing around the groups converging on it to reach the edge of the map and escape.
An undead, fleeing. After having hidden in a pond.
I'd thought the voidwalkers were your 'strange evil stars', a race of mystery and weird power. The meowkin seem at least distantly related to nyan cats to me; cuddly more than strange and definately friendly and just flavorful, but there's nothing really 'inexplicable' about them that I've discovered yet (probably because I've never made them mad...); the 'weirdest' thing I know about voidwalkers is how discovered thieves initially flee about 10 rooms, then turn around and head -determinedly- towards some goal inside my fortress, even running past dwarves and warbeasts hitting them sometimes as they try to reach this mysterious but clearly very motivating goal...
Lizardmen, however, are this huge ball of odd behaviors. I rarely see them; I'd written them off as a primitive race of fairly low significance and expected no real strangeness or unusually behaviors from them; an 'animal race' given the tools of civilization and told to attack others. But... they are the ones who use poisons against me; they are the ones who seem 'sentient' even when undead; they are the ones you see fit to use as the source of crafty and dangerous deeply subtle spies in the future...
These lizardmen have taken top place in my list of enemies to watch and expect surprises from at last, thanks to this. How extremely odd and delightful - their unusual behavior so slowly exposed is almost like watching a dark and unsettling flower unfold!
Post by: Man of Paper on March 23, 2012, 04:34:31 pm
Post by: narhiril on March 23, 2012, 05:46:23 pm
Spoiler: Running changelog... (click to show/hide)
Post by: Pan on March 23, 2012, 10:00:19 pm
Post by: narhiril on March 23, 2012, 10:10:29 pm
Damn... emberlights are not immune to magma. Just want to let people know.
They're resistant to it, but I can't make them fully immune without making the teeth and organs of all castes of dwarf also immune. They can walk through shallow magma and even submerge themselves in it for very short periods of time, but it will kill them after a while.
The problem is that teeth and organs cannot be assigned a different material in the raws - they're hardcoded to use TEETH, SPLEEN, LIVER, etc. These materials can be modified, but only at creature level, resulting in every dwarf having magma-proof teeth and organs if I were to do that. I actually have templates for materials called TEETH_FIREIMMUNE and so on, but there's no way for me to actually substitute them in (that I know of) at caste level.
Post by: Pan on March 23, 2012, 10:15:55 pm
So, just a tentative inquiry: when will the release be up?
Post by: Pan on March 23, 2012, 10:16:39 pm
Post by: Stirk on March 23, 2012, 10:21:32 pm
« Last Edit: Today at 06:18:29 pm by narhiril »
Done twice for your support. So today?
*EDIT*
Wait. Ember light warriors are going to get an attack that they must be in lava to use, but they are not immune to lava?
Post by: narhiril on March 23, 2012, 10:53:55 pm
« Last Edit: Today at 06:18:29 pm by narhiril »
« Last Edit: Today at 06:18:29 pm by narhiril »
Done twice for your support. So today?
*EDIT*
Wait. Ember light warriors are going to get an attack that they must be in lava to use, but they are not immune to lava?
They can stand in lava, they just can't swim in it for very long. Also that edit was just a typo. Sorry to fuel more speculation. ^_^
I still need to test if the reactions for stonekin and zephyrs are working properly, but I'm getting close. In the meantime, here's a teaser.
(http://i.imgur.com/VZlDl.png)
Post by: Imp on March 23, 2012, 11:03:00 pm
Wait. Ember light warriors are going to get an attack that they must be in lava to use, but they are not immune to lava?
They're resistant to it, but I can't make them fully immune without making the teeth and organs of all castes of dwarf also immune. They can walk through shallow magma and even submerge themselves in it for very short periods of time, but it will kill them after a while.
Timing is everything in this case, no?
I can see gloriously intricate areas prepared to control the magmal immersion of Emberlights now.
Are you one of the players who will use a piston to drive magma up through a grate when you want your Emberlights flamin up good, and then pull a lever to open a way for that magma to drain back down a z-level when you think they've had enough?
Will your Emberlights live on the far side of a raised-drawbridge area with an area holding a shallow magma bath, and drop that drawbridge to let them see what they must fight when you want them to risk their teeth and innards to better destroy your enemies?
Shall you take the coward's way out and wrap your Emberlights in asbestos-wool in some deep and hidden safe place where they could never possibly see anything to throw a fireball at; save for when you actually need one to do that last bit of channeling on some warm stone, knowing that this time you wont have to wonder if this dwarf will retreat fast enough?
Mmmm, so MANY possibilities!
Post by: astianax on March 23, 2012, 11:07:41 pm
one of my first encounters with them was a siege at an oceanside fortress i'd made. the lizardmen all spawned on a small outcropping of rock in the water and swam to my unprotected seaside entrance (all the traps and guards and such were up on the level above...everything else had to walk through those to reach the entrance...). they were eventually driven away, but kept slinking down to hide in the ocean and swim back to attack. none ever fled. instead, they'd hide underwater and then attack random individual dwarves that came near the water. and eventually tried to rush inside and got slaughtered. but they really stuck out to me because of their tactics. i think it made me almost as big a fan of 'em as nar herself is
Post by: Stirk on March 23, 2012, 11:14:02 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Well if you are going to fill a place with lava in order for your emberlights to fight in it, why not just instead fill the enemies with magma? I mean if you have the magma there, and are willing to use the emberlight's fire attacks, there is really no reason not to...
Post by: narhiril on March 23, 2012, 11:50:59 pm
Post by: Pan on March 24, 2012, 12:31:40 am
but they really stuck out to me because of their tactics. i think it made me almost as big a fan of 'em as nar herself is
The manual says they aren't really stupid. Just xenophobic and tribal. So I guess it makes sense that they are brave and smart about their tactics. I like em. I still find the meowkin rather insufferable, though.
Well, it looks like at the very least, 0.34.06 broke simplified clothing. Turns out dwarves aren't too happy (in fact, they're REALLY pissed) about not having pants anymore. I'll have to test performance to see what options I have moving forward.
Just give the dwarves pants. I mean, really, how much more fps drain can that cause? These days we have migrants coming in with tons of jewelry from animals they killed. Adding pants isn't really gonna make it that much worse. i had a dwarf come in with jewelry that is more than all the simplified clothing the other dwarves had combined.
Post by: Atlan on March 24, 2012, 12:52:48 am
i had a dwarf come in with jewelry that is more than all the simplified clothing the other dwarves had combined.I just killed a vampire in adventurer mode who seemed to have a trophy from each of his over 800 kills.
Post by: Pan on March 24, 2012, 02:59:56 am
i had a dwarf come in with jewelry that is more than all the simplified clothing the other dwarves had combined.I just killed a vampire in adventurer mode who seemed to have a trophy from each of his over 800 kills.
Imagine what this will do to fortress FPS.
Post by: vorpal+5 on March 24, 2012, 11:16:26 am
better put that in the readme of next version anyway...
Post by: SalmonGod on March 24, 2012, 04:54:21 pm
Post by: Putnam on March 24, 2012, 05:15:04 pm
I can't bring myself to play the new version until this is updated! :(
It works with the newest version fine, don't worry about it.
Post by: narhiril on March 24, 2012, 10:55:04 pm
I can't bring myself to play the new version until this is updated! :(
It works with the newest version fine, don't worry about it.
Yeah, just don't use SC for the new release until I get that fixed. Everything else works fine.
Post by: Pan on March 24, 2012, 11:27:31 pm
Just had an idea for a future mechanical weapon. The 'Pikeshot'. Basically a magnet gun attached to a pike. Uses the pike skill. Basically a very, very powerful penetrating weapon, but very low damage with blunt and slashing. Not a very creative idea, but maybe this could inspire someone else with a better idea of some kind? :P
Anyway, I read through the shedim lore file. These guys sound vicious. When will they be implemented?
Post by: Atlan on March 25, 2012, 12:14:18 am
But the idea that I liked more than that, perhaps in relation to it, is the idea of a "Barbarian", a type of savant who might not Start with any very high skill in anything at all, and be functionally useless at every task that doesn't involve hitting things with other things. They'd be like a weapons-savant, but without being specialized, and perhaps a bit less of a benefit towards a single skill, having been spread out across multiple ones.
I'm torn between whether I'd name the first barbarian immigrant I got "Conan" or "Vanod"
(http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=101941.0 for reference)
Probably Vanod.
Post by: narhiril on March 25, 2012, 12:22:48 am
I had two ideas for Savant types when playing through the new version. The first was, with the addition of all these new taming features, an "Animal Whisperer", who is entirely socially inept, except with animals. (Almost like the dungeon masters of old).
But the idea that I liked more than that, perhaps in relation to it, is the idea of a "Barbarian", a type of savant who might not Start with any very high skill in anything at all, and be functionally useless at every task that doesn't involve hitting things with other things. They'd be like a weapons-savant, but without being specialized, and perhaps a bit less of a benefit towards a single skill, having been spread out across multiple ones.
I'm torn between whether I'd name the first barbarian immigrant I got "Conan" or "Vanod"
(http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=101941.0 for reference)
Probably Vanod.
I like both of these ideas, especially with the new training system. These are not hard to implement, and I can probably squeeze them into the next release.
I noticed that the top half clothing is either 'formal wear' or 'work clothes'. How about doing the same with the pants and the shoes?
Just had an idea for a future mechanical weapon. The 'Pikeshot'. Basically a magnet gun attached to a pike. Uses the pike skill. Basically a very, very powerful penetrating weapon, but very low damage with blunt and slashing. Not a very creative idea, but maybe this could inspire someone else with a better idea of some kind? :P
Anyway, I read through the shedim lore file. These guys sound vicious. When will they be implemented?
Right now I've got it set to use "dwarven formal pants" and "dwarven work pants." The two are mutually exclusive, so you won't have problems with dwarves wearing both at the same time. The previous version of SC only allowed for regular shoes, but I suppose I can vary this up a bit as long as they're mutually exclusive.
The shedim are a massive project requiring custom body definitions, interactions, a thoroughly tested entity file, and some workarounds for graphics. I can say for certain that I've made a lot of progress on them recently, but their implementation, like so many other things, is dependent on how well the initial tests go. I don't plan to try to squeeze them into this release, as they would delay things considerably, but I'm making them a goal for the near future.
Post by: vorpal+5 on March 25, 2012, 10:41:17 am
Post by: narhiril on March 25, 2012, 10:45:19 am
I have an orichalcum precision toolkit. Now what? Sorry I can't find in the doc how to move forward. ::)
Build an advanced mechanics workshop (b->w->T) and use it to produce the components for training workshops.
Post by: Pan on March 25, 2012, 10:54:20 am
Post by: Jilladilla on March 25, 2012, 03:13:55 pm
I have an orichalcum precision toolkit. Now what? Sorry I can't find in the doc how to move forward. ::)
like narhiril said, make an advanced mechanics shop, that'll allow you to make advanced mechanisms and precision tools out of more conventional materials (like iron), after you build a couple of training workshops, use them, a lot.
and set the one reaction at the alchemy lab on repeat too (document research or something like that)
Post by: narhiril on March 25, 2012, 06:40:42 pm
Oh well. I have a tight schedule this week too. Would appreciate an update on the release so I can make the necessary adjustment to sleeping and working schedule :P
I was trying to squeeze throwing weapons into this update, but that did NOT go well. Turns out that adding a ranged attack to all of the melee weapons causes an utter cascade of issues that horrendously complicates things. If I were to bring them in using their current form, you'd need a separate manual to detail all of the things from vanilla that they broke and how to work around them, which isn't any fun for anybody. I spent much of today on the way home from Chicago reverting everything back to the way it was when I started the day.
The good news is that I got Atlan's animal whisperers and naturally skilled warrior castes working fine, so those will be coming up soon.
And by "soon," I mean "within the next ten minutes."
Post by: narhiril on March 25, 2012, 07:12:44 pm
As usual, report any issues you may find. Being a release with mostly new features, I expect there to be a few that come up.
Post by: Atlan on March 25, 2012, 07:14:24 pm
Post by: narhiril on March 25, 2012, 07:17:40 pm
It'd be neat if the barbarians, with their naturally high aptitudes for combat skills, ended up regularly becoming heroes in the legends and migrated to your fortress with sizable war history under their belt. I think both Animal whisperers and Barbarians could be easily explained by all those fortresses players abandon. The children, growing up without their parents or any sort of society, either survive by conquering the wilds or by becoming an animal themselves.
The current (as of like 20 seconds ago) version isn't quite as dramatic as that, but a true "barbarian" or "combat savant" is something I can work on some more. The current version contains animal whisperers and dwarves with a strong combat pretension.
Post by: Atlan on March 25, 2012, 07:21:26 pm
Also the download seems to have a pregenerated world enclosed with it, not sure if intentional.
"[CASTE:BAMBAM_MALE] lol flintstones"
Lol flintstones indeed.
Post by: narhiril on March 25, 2012, 07:25:00 pm
It's still very cool either way, I'm flattered you added it in.
Also the download seems to have a pregenerated world enclosed with it, not sure if intentional.
It's not. I'll go ahead and fix that so that I'm not making people download more megabytes of crap.
---
EDIT: (12:32AM CST, 3/26/12) I think it was worth noting that two otherwise undocumented changes accompanied this re-upload...
-Fixed a bug causing the ritual of victory to preserve its reagents.
-Reverted high priests to a cap of two and removed class restrictions (these weren't working well with transformations).
To the ~14 people who have already downloaded, it's not worth starting a new fort over, but if you haven't started yet and want the very latest, you might want to re-download.
Post by: vorpal+5 on March 26, 2012, 12:37:11 am
Just to be clear, can a 0.34.05 fort with SC on be continued without hidden (or not so hidden) problems with the new LFR version? Sorry to be dense...
Post by: narhiril on March 26, 2012, 12:41:48 am
Thanks for the answer on orichalcum.
Just to be clear, can a 0.34.05 fort with SC on be continued without hidden (or not so hidden) problems with the new LFR version? Sorry to be dense...
No, actually, this is a good topic to bring up. Old versions of SC will cause some serious issues if used with 0.34.06 - since SC did not include pants before 0.16a, trying to play an old SC fortress with the new build of dwarf fortress will cause tantrum spirals due to every dwarf in the fortress being plagued by the new negative thoughts of their own indecency.
Unfortunately, these isn't anything I can do to fix that. All I can do is assure you that the new version of SC works fine.
Post by: Vanaheimer on March 26, 2012, 12:59:53 am
Less so when he's your miner.... and not your swordsman :lol:
Post by: narhiril on March 26, 2012, 02:11:05 am
Some changes I'm hoping to get done quickly...
-Adding an alternate way to acquire mountain hearts for Kerox' ceremony.
-Adding an alternate way to acquire green glass for Lemox' ceremony.
-Tweaking the gas clouds from ceremonies to be color-coded.
-Fixing up some inconsistencies in the manual.
-Officially fixing the (currently somewhat dysfunctional) high priest position.
-Adding a prayer for quivers, backpacks, and bags.
More to come, stay tuned.
Post by: Demiurge on March 26, 2012, 03:43:32 am
Just a heads up... I'm going to be making some balance tweaks tomorrow to resolve a few more issues that came up tonight in tests. Even though it's a new version and I know everyone is like "oooooooh shiny!!!," you might not want to get to attached to any 0.16a forts you happen to start over the next 24 hours.
Download cancelled :(
Post by: Pan on March 26, 2012, 04:37:43 am
Post by: narhiril on March 26, 2012, 10:37:36 am
Ooo, what are mistshrouds? What do their mist do?
It's an identical effect to the "void mist" weather interaction - buffs their allies, debuffs their enemies.
Spoiler: Here are the exact parameters. (click to show/hide)
Just a heads up... I'm going to be making some balance tweaks tomorrow to resolve a few more issues that came up tonight in tests. Even though it's a new version and I know everyone is like "oooooooh shiny!!!," you might not want to get to attached to any 0.16a forts you happen to start over the next 24 hours.
Some changes I'm hoping to get done quickly...
-Adding an alternate way to acquire mountain hearts for Kerox' ceremony.
-Adding an alternate way to acquire green glass for Lemox' ceremony.
-Tweaking the gas clouds from ceremonies to be color-coded.
-Fixing up some inconsistencies in the manual.
-Officially fixing the (currently somewhat dysfunctional) high priest position.
-Adding a prayer for quivers, backpacks, and bags.
More to come, stay tuned.
Alright... everything from this list is done except for the final part, which I'm comfortable delaying until the next release since it's a new feature rather than a balance fix, so I'm going to go ahead and upload it.
Post by: narhiril on March 26, 2012, 11:12:50 am
Spoiler: Image (click to show/hide)
I know the pose is a little awkward, but I'm not the best artist in the world. >.<
Post by: Vanaheimer on March 26, 2012, 12:41:33 pm
Post by: vorpal+5 on March 26, 2012, 03:12:24 pm
I embarked (on a pretty normal world), then check my Dwarfs with DT... And they all have -1 in strength and agility, and uber stats in all the rest. They have no caste, before you ask.
Please confirm this is a bug and we should wait for another version? :o
Post by: narhiril on March 26, 2012, 08:52:26 pm
When I try to extract the files from the .zip to my desktop, it's telling me a bunch of files are password protected?
!!ALERT!!
I embarked (on a pretty normal world), then check my Dwarfs with DT... And they all have -1 in strength and agility, and uber stats in all the rest. They have no caste, before you ask.
Please confirm this is a bug and we should wait for another version? :o
I have not been able to replicate either of these issues. Please let me know which version you are using (raw ironhand, raw ascii, or pre-installed). Also, for vorpal+5, try generating a new world and see if the issue persists.
Post by: Vanaheimer on March 26, 2012, 09:06:36 pm
Okay, the entire object folder, entity_bog, entity_default, entity_lizardmen, entity_meow, entity_moroii, entity_nephillim, entity_void, simple armour, and readme_sc.
I'm entirely unsure if it even makes that much of a difference, I just thought it was odd seeing how it didn't pop up when I downloaded the last version.
Edit:
Still getting the warning,the game sometimes crashes during world gen. I did a little bit of modding after downloading, removing aquifiers, cave adaptation, and changing the age dwarven children mature. I've done it before and never had any issues.
Post by: Pan on March 26, 2012, 11:35:10 pm
Post by: vorpal+5 on March 27, 2012, 12:24:30 am
It seems it was my intermediary version of Dwarf-the-Rapist which gave me a false report. Now all is well under the new version. :P
Post by: narhiril on March 27, 2012, 01:21:08 am
I'm using the preinstalled pack. Lemme try and unzip it again and I'll list off what files it says are protected...
Okay, the entire object folder, entity_bog, entity_default, entity_lizardmen, entity_meow, entity_moroii, entity_nephillim, entity_void, simple armour, and readme_sc.
I'm entirely unsure if it even makes that much of a difference, I just thought it was odd seeing how it didn't pop up when I downloaded the last version.
Edit:
Still getting the warning,the game sometimes crashes during world gen. I did a little bit of modding after downloading, removing aquifiers, cave adaptation, and changing the age dwarven children mature. I've done it before and never had any issues.
I downloaded the raws only on my mac and tried to unarchive it. Archive utility froze up on it.
I apologize, something seems to have gotten messed up in translation with the simplified clothing part of the zip. I've re-uploaded both versions with new archives. If any problems persist, please let me know immediately.
Post by: Pan on March 27, 2012, 06:17:19 am
Also, if I give wavebreakers crossbow and station them behind fortifications, will they use the crossbows or their ability?
Post by: narhiril on March 27, 2012, 12:45:29 pm
Enjoy some art... and some insight into LFR's future.Spoiler: shedim 1 (click to show/hide)Spoiler: shedim 2 (click to show/hide)
Let me resurrect this, since it's relevant and quite difficult to find in the mess of pages attached to this thread...
Note that this was all conceived before the interaction system was introduced, so some things may be adjusted due to new possibilities.
I've spent the last day or so working on a way for these guys to have caste-specific graphics by abusing SKILL_LEARN_RATE and professions. It works, in theory, but I haven't gotten a chance to actually try it yet.
Post by: vorpal+5 on March 27, 2012, 04:08:10 pm
I forgot though to use SC, is it too late now I have embarked? Darn, I don't like seeing anymore 15 clothes per Dwarf... it clutters the display and I don't see the armor easily now.
Post by: Stirk on March 27, 2012, 05:11:09 pm
Playing fine now... I get attacked by horse hair, but this is another story!
I forgot though to use SC, is it too late now I have embarked? Darn, I don't like seeing anymore 15 clothes per Dwarf... it clutters the display and I don't see the armor easily now.
You should be able to, but you may have to put it in the save file to. I am not sure where it goes, since I don't use it myself, but putting it in the save file couldn't hurt. (A features that REMOVES things? Blasphemy! What will I do without a lagoon of socks?)
Post by: Vanaheimer on March 27, 2012, 06:17:20 pm
I must say, I love how prompt you are with fixing things :lol:
Post by: narhiril on March 27, 2012, 09:01:39 pm
Playing fine now... I get attacked by horse hair, but this is another story!
I forgot though to use SC, is it too late now I have embarked? Darn, I don't like seeing anymore 15 clothes per Dwarf... it clutters the display and I don't see the armor easily now.
You should be able to, but you may have to put it in the save file to. I am not sure where it goes, since I don't use it myself, but putting it in the save file couldn't hurt. (A features that REMOVES things? Blasphemy! What will I do without a lagoon of socks?)
As fun as a lagoon of socks can be, SC is meant to improve performance and cut down on the astronomical amount of clutter caused by invading armies. Of course, if you're using emberlights, you can just get rid of extra clothing the FUN way, but not all of us have gaming computers. Even on mine with SC, I tend to stabilize between 50 and 70 fps once I've hit 200 dwarves. Because I've personally tested and verified that clothing is a HUGE drain on fps, I at least like to give the option of a performance enhancer.
The problem with clothing is that it wears down from a quality value of 10000 to 0 over time. When you take into account that every piece of clothing in the game has one of these counters that is constantly ticking down, you can see why removing even just a portion of clothing can drastically improve performance.
Redownloading now.
I must say, I love how prompt you are with fixing things :lol:
I'm honestly not sure how that particular issue even came up. If it's still a problem, please let me know immediately.
Post by: Vanaheimer on March 27, 2012, 09:46:16 pm
Post by: o_O[WTFace] on March 27, 2012, 10:33:25 pm
Post by: narhiril on March 27, 2012, 11:57:24 pm
All of the new animal training related things display ? as there commands, which of course doesn't work. So "?:Train War Animal" and so on. Does animal training require something my dwarfs dont have yet or did I break something tinkering with the files.
You might have overwritten one of the init files (probably interface). These were updated with 0.34.06 to include some new key binds.
Check your interface.txt file. My guess is you're probably missing these lines...
[BIND:ANIMAL_SELECT_TRAINER:REPEAT_NOT]
[KEY:t]
[BIND:ANIMAL_WAR_TRAINING:REPEAT_NOT]
[KEY:w]
[BIND:ANIMAL_HUNTING_TRAINING:REPEAT_NOT]
[KEY:h]
Nope, works fine.
Thanks for confirming that.
Post by: vorpal+5 on March 28, 2012, 01:37:38 am
Post by: BigFatStupidHead on March 28, 2012, 02:20:43 am
So I applied Simplified Clothing to my current save (and to the base raw). The current Dorfs keep their complex clothing (expected) but all new creatures and migrants will arrive with SC on, right?I predict not. Unfortunately, when your current game was generated, the dwarf civilization (entity) you belong to was created with the knowledge on how to make complex clothing, and not simplified clothing. Because entity information gets saved as part of the game world, changing raws that affect entities does not affect pre-existing worlds.
Does that make sense?
Post by: Pan on March 28, 2012, 02:23:04 am
Post by: narhiril on March 28, 2012, 02:27:30 am
For the record, with 4/7 castes done, the shedim creature file is 31kb. By comparison, the voidwalker creature file is 6kb. Just giving you guys some idea of what's involved here.
Post by: vorpal+5 on March 28, 2012, 03:24:41 am
Sounds cool Narhiril, but I need to play DF now! :o
Post by: Demiurge on March 28, 2012, 06:31:03 am
Just a heads up to anyone who is interested... I *might* have an alpha test version of the shedim up in the next few days. I've got four of the seven castes working in arena mode, but I still need to write an entity file and test the graphics workaround.
For the record, with 4/7 castes done, the shedim creature file is 31kb. By comparison, the voidwalker creature file is 6kb. Just giving you guys some idea of what's involved here.
Looking forward to that, I've gotten into modding a few base traits myself and it'll be fun to look through the huge creature raws. Hell, I'll even proof read it for typo's :p
Post by: Vanaheimer on March 29, 2012, 12:30:12 am
Post by: narhiril on March 29, 2012, 01:12:01 am
Does DF Hack work with LFR or am I just something wrong? Every time I start it up, everything crashes.
DFHack doesn't officially support 0.34.06 yet, so technically, no, it doesn't work with LFR... or vanilla DF, for that matter. I know that there's a lot of "temporary" builds that get posted over on that thread, so if you're using one of those, it might be an issue on that end.
LFR doesn't touch the executable or direct link libraries (it did in 0.31.25, but that's ancient history now), so it shouldn't interfere with DFHack. I know it's not the answer you were hoping for, but I can't officially say "it works" or "it doesn't work" until the new version of DFHack is actually released. It's never been a problem in the past, though.
Post by: Vanaheimer on March 29, 2012, 12:33:05 pm
Post by: narhiril on March 29, 2012, 01:30:36 pm
-Castes need to respect POP_RATIO in worldgen. I don't think this will be a problem.
-[OPPOSED_TO_LIFE] and a lack of a [CAN_SPEAK] token needs to make them hostile to all other races. Not sure if this will work.
-They can't consistently get wiped out or wipe out everybody else in worldgen. Not sure how this will work, either.
-They shouldn't be able to learn secrets. I'm fairly confident this will work.
-Profession assignments need to take into account natural skills. I'm not sure if this will work, but the entire graphics component is counting on it.
I'll hammer out some entity raws this afternoon, graphics tonight, and I'll try to get something testable up by tomorrow. Since there are so many aspects that need testing here, I'll upload these as test raws, and I'll be extending an open invitation to anyone to try them out and give feedback.
I think it's safe to say that this is one of the most complicated entities ever attempted. Not to toot my own horn, or anything.
Post by: vorpal+5 on March 29, 2012, 01:50:27 pm
I guess you'll need a lot of debugging patience for these entities then. On the graphical front, have you considered borrowing some graphics of others mod, some are rather neat and I'm sure that if you ask, this would be no problem. Example the Naja.
On other topic, is it possible to have something that allow limb repair or regeneration? That would be really cool when you get attached to a Dwarf but then he loses something precious.
Post by: Teneb on March 29, 2012, 01:53:09 pm
Post by: Demiurge on March 29, 2012, 01:53:54 pm
Post by: narhiril on March 29, 2012, 03:44:16 pm
Default (only used in arena), neoshedim (child), currant, vibrant, discordant, ah tel, ah kora, ah kiral, ah haleel, undead.
Post by: SirAaronIII on March 29, 2012, 03:47:34 pm
Post by: o_O[WTFace] on March 29, 2012, 07:12:04 pm
-They can't consistently get wiped out or wipe out everybody else in worldgen. Not sure how this will work, either.
You could try giving them a very high reproduction rate and a quite restrictive MAX_POP, BIOME_SUPPORT and so forth. The idea would be that they replace their losses before they can be conquered, but can't generally grow numerous enough to overwhelm other civs. A high max site pop number might also make it hard for any of their few settlements to get destroyed. I used settings like this for my orcs in 40d and it more or less worked, but quite a bit has changed since then.
I hope this all works out, plague species are lots of fun and I like their little Cthulhu heads.
Post by: Pan on March 29, 2012, 10:12:05 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/aPkyM.png)
Default (only used in arena), neoshedim (child), currant, vibrant, discordant, ah tel, ah kora, ah kiral, ah haleel, undead.
These graphics... They look better than some of the previous. How?
Post by: narhiril on March 29, 2012, 11:42:30 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/aPkyM.png)
Default (only used in arena), neoshedim (child), currant, vibrant, discordant, ah tel, ah kora, ah kiral, ah haleel, undead.
These graphics... They look better than some of the previous. How?
I'm getting a little bit better I guess? :)
Also, some more news... from the development log...
"...generally made animation/ghost/acquired tags count for more in targeting."
The Toad God has smiled upon my humble request (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=5690).
PRAISE BE!
Post by: vorpal+5 on March 30, 2012, 12:37:09 am
Is the vanguard rubble problem fixed (it does not appears as a stone and will colonize any stockpile)
Post by: nukularpower on March 30, 2012, 12:39:54 am
Post by: narhiril on March 30, 2012, 09:39:14 am
Graphics look really good! How about tweaking slightly the previous ones now? :-*
Is the vanguard rubble problem fixed (it does not appears as a stone and will colonize any stockpile)
Yeah, it was missing [IS_STONE].
Apparently, that's not part of the STONE_TEMPLATE. I guess I learn something every day.
As for previous graphics, I'll probably do a poll asking which ones people want revised. I think deep wolves will be pretty high on that list, but you never know what other people think.
(http://i.imgur.com/aPkyM.png)
Default (only used in arena), neoshedim (child), currant, vibrant, discordant, ah tel, ah kora, ah kiral, ah haleel, undead.
These graphics... They look better than some of the previous. How?
Looking forward to playing with these Shedim!
I'm determined to make the graphics work, which may take a few builds to get right. I'm not sure how DF will handle professions with them - it might rename them all "wrestler" when they attack, which would screw things up a bit. If that happens, I will have to play around with re-defining them as military professions instead, which brings the issue of weapons assignments into play. Seeing as ah tels, ah haleels, and currants don't have GRASP parts, that would complicate things.
I suppose I could give them GRASP tags on their mouthes, but I'd still need to sort out the issue of weaponry - the shedim aren't supposed to have any, but it might not assign the professions properly if the weapon is unavailable. I've even considered the radical solution of an instantly-vaporizing metal... Theory being that the shedim walk onto the map with dummy weapons to set the professions and graphics, then lose them immediately in a poof of smoke. I'm also not sure if skill learn rates are respected in worldgen. Ugh, so many variables.
...Even more radical... I could redefine them all as separate creatures and give the parent race permanent caste-level transform interactions. Not the most elegant solution, but it might have to do.
Alas... my kingdom for caste graphics.
Post by: trees on March 30, 2012, 09:44:54 am
Here it is (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=52988.msg1873107#msg1873107). Hope it helps.
Post by: narhiril on March 30, 2012, 09:47:49 am
I'm pretty sure that someone set up something very similar to what you're trying to do for the illithids in Genesis from .31.25. Let me look...
Here it is (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=52988.msg1873107#msg1873107). Hope it helps.
This is indeed most helpful. Thank you. Believe it or not (expecially considering that illithids bear some resemblance to shedim concept art), I had no idea this little gem existed. The shedim were actually loosely based on these (http://wiki.guildwars.com/images/a/a7/Oni.jpg) guys.
For anyone who is curious, LFR's raws will work with the new version of DF, as none of the files it modifies or adds require any further addendum. I will be packaging the next release with the newest version of the game.
Post by: narhiril on March 30, 2012, 01:45:30 pm
-Vampire hunters.
-Undead-killing priests of light.
-Chain attacks and spells for both fortress and adventure mode.
Tin foil hats, anyone? :)
Post by: Undeadlord on March 30, 2012, 01:51:23 pm
Post by: miauw62 on March 30, 2012, 02:02:29 pm
(and less terryfying then masterwork or genisis)
Will definatly try once i grow a bit better.
Post by: narhiril on March 30, 2012, 02:06:10 pm
Is anyone else getting the issue with selecting hunting or war training for animals? The option to select that are all showing ? instead of something you can actually press. As well with making a zone an animal training zone, the options shows ? and pressing that just brings up the help.
The init/interface.txt file was changed in 0.34.06. If you're using an older version of it, it is most likely missing the lines that assign those hotkeys. Upon closer inspection, it seems that I did not update this file in the most recent pre-installed version, and for that I apologize.
Here (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=6037) is the file you need. Put it in "LFR v0.16b Ironhand Graphics Edition/data/init," overwrite the old one, and restart the game. This does not require a new world or save.
EDIT: Fixed this issue for future downloads, added notification to main page.
Post by: Undeadlord on March 30, 2012, 03:33:41 pm
Is anyone else getting the issue with selecting hunting or war training for animals? The option to select that are all showing ? instead of something you can actually press. As well with making a zone an animal training zone, the options shows ? and pressing that just brings up the help.
The init/interface.txt file was changed in 0.34.06. If you're using an older version of it, it is most likely missing the lines that assign those hotkeys. Upon closer inspection, it seems that I did not update this file in the most recent pre-installed version, and for that I apologize.
Here (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=6037) is the file you need. Put it in "LFR v0.16b Ironhand Graphics Edition/data/init," overwrite the old one, and restart the game. This does not require a new world or save.
EDIT: Fixed this issue for future downloads, added notification to main page.
Wow, I found an honest to goodness bug .. go me :) Thanks! I love this mod!
Also one other quick question for all concerned. Special units, wavebreakers and emberlights, are these units I want to make out of good military units? Are they ever going to see combat? Or are they going to always use special abilities and therefore I should make a seperate non-trained squad of them to backup my melee dwarves?
Maybe I can arena test that?
Post by: Undeadlord on March 30, 2012, 04:08:09 pm
Is anyone else getting the issue with selecting hunting or war training for animals? The option to select that are all showing ? instead of something you can actually press. As well with making a zone an animal training zone, the options shows ? and pressing that just brings up the help.
The init/interface.txt file was changed in 0.34.06. If you're using an older version of it, it is most likely missing the lines that assign those hotkeys. Upon closer inspection, it seems that I did not update this file in the most recent pre-installed version, and for that I apologize.
Here (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=6037) is the file you need. Put it in "LFR v0.16b Ironhand Graphics Edition/data/init," overwrite the old one, and restart the game. This does not require a new world or save.
EDIT: Fixed this issue for future downloads, added notification to main page.
New Post for clarity ...
In the post above you mention the interface.txt, but the link you gave goes to the init.txt? Am I missing something?
Post by: vorpal+5 on March 30, 2012, 04:11:02 pm
In addition to the shedim, here are some other features intended for LFR in the near future... Many of the possible because of this (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=106035.0).
-Vampire hunters.
-Undead-killing priests of light.
-Chain attacks and spells for both fortress and adventure mode.
Tin foil hats, anyone? :)
Looks very good, and I read all your explanation in 'Modder's Resource' thread...But a question... If the items disappears when you heal somebody, and you could heal false positive Dwarves (they get the blood of others because of a spill over), then I believe we are in trouble, no? You don't want to strip naked a full steeclad Urist just because his nearby friend spilled his guts and a cleric is nearby...
Change of topic, will you pull up 34.07 within one day? I got my ass handed, again, in my latest fort!
Post by: narhiril on March 30, 2012, 04:14:51 pm
Is anyone else getting the issue with selecting hunting or war training for animals? The option to select that are all showing ? instead of something you can actually press. As well with making a zone an animal training zone, the options shows ? and pressing that just brings up the help.
The init/interface.txt file was changed in 0.34.06. If you're using an older version of it, it is most likely missing the lines that assign those hotkeys. Upon closer inspection, it seems that I did not update this file in the most recent pre-installed version, and for that I apologize.
Here (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=6037) is the file you need. Put it in "LFR v0.16b Ironhand Graphics Edition/data/init," overwrite the old one, and restart the game. This does not require a new world or save.
EDIT: Fixed this issue for future downloads, added notification to main page.
New Post for clarity ...
In the post above you mention the interface.txt, but the link you gave goes to the init.txt? Am I missing something?
Try it again and let's pretend that didn't happen.
I'm sorry, my eyes are a disaster and I can't even read the damn file names sometimes.
Post by: Jilladilla on March 30, 2012, 04:26:53 pm
Also one other quick question for all concerned. Special units, wavebreakers and emberlights, are these units I want to make out of good military units? Are they ever going to see combat? Or are they going to always use special abilities and therefore I should make a seperate non-trained squad of them to backup my melee dwarves?UndeadLord, KEEP EMBERLIGHTS AWAY FROM NON-EMBERLIGHTS/WAVEBREAKERS!
Maybe I can arena test that?
unless you like !!highly trained militia!!...
zephyrs, stonekin and wavebreakers are perfectly safe (to your dwarves)
zephyrs and stonekin seem to be more about buffing/debuffing stuff and wavebreakers are more offensive
also zephyrs do get some natural dodge + crossbow skill so it's logical to turn untrained dwarves into them to get an instantly (somewhat) trained support dwarf
just wondering, has anyone tryed to have emberlights fight on a large graphite stockpile?
Post by: Pan on March 31, 2012, 08:57:53 am
Post by: Undeadlord on March 31, 2012, 12:57:25 pm
Is anyone else getting the issue with selecting hunting or war training for animals? The option to select that are all showing ? instead of something you can actually press. As well with making a zone an animal training zone, the options shows ? and pressing that just brings up the help.
The init/interface.txt file was changed in 0.34.06. If you're using an older version of it, it is most likely missing the lines that assign those hotkeys. Upon closer inspection, it seems that I did not update this file in the most recent pre-installed version, and for that I apologize.
Here (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=6037) is the file you need. Put it in "LFR v0.16b Ironhand Graphics Edition/data/init," overwrite the old one, and restart the game. This does not require a new world or save.
EDIT: Fixed this issue for future downloads, added notification to main page.
New Post for clarity ...
In the post above you mention the interface.txt, but the link you gave goes to the init.txt? Am I missing something?
Try it again and let's pretend that didn't happen.
I'm sorry, my eyes are a disaster and I can't even read the damn file names sometimes.
You rock Narhiril! Thanks for taking the time to update it!
Post by: narhiril on March 31, 2012, 10:46:45 pm
Change of topic, will you pull up 34.07 within one day? I got my ass handed, again, in my latest fort!
LFR is currently compatible with 0.34.07, but I do not yet have a pre-installed version set up. I can probably get this done within a day or two, since it looks like an actual content update might be a ways out - I've got some kinks that need ironing out and a lot of features that are going to need testing.
Post by: Pan on March 31, 2012, 10:47:42 pm
Change of topic, will you pull up 34.07 within one day? I got my ass handed, again, in my latest fort!
LFR is currently compatible with 0.34.07, but I do not yet have a pre-installed version set up. I can probably get this done within a day or two, since it looks like an actual content update might be a ways out - I've got some kinks that need ironing out and a lot of features that are going to need testing.
How goes the Shedim and their graphics?
Post by: narhiril on March 31, 2012, 10:54:15 pm
Change of topic, will you pull up 34.07 within one day? I got my ass handed, again, in my latest fort!
LFR is currently compatible with 0.34.07, but I do not yet have a pre-installed version set up. I can probably get this done within a day or two, since it looks like an actual content update might be a ways out - I've got some kinks that need ironing out and a lot of features that are going to need testing.
How goes the Shedim and their graphics?
Funny you should mention that. Try them out (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=4637) for yourself. :)
I don't expect them to be perfect - two castes are unfinished and the entity raws and invasions are unproven, but that's why I'm uploading it - so that anyone who is interested can help test them.
Post by: vorpal+5 on April 01, 2012, 01:45:35 am
Change of topic, will you pull up 34.07 within one day? I got my ass handed, again, in my latest fort!
LFR is currently compatible with 0.34.07, but I do not yet have a pre-installed version set up. I can probably get this done within a day or two, since it looks like an actual content update might be a ways out - I've got some kinks that need ironing out and a lot of features that are going to need testing.
So I install 0.34.07, and then overwrite everything with the current LFR? But what about the RAW files Toady tweaked in 34.07, will they not be overwritten by your work?
Post by: Meph on April 01, 2012, 06:05:39 pm
Sorry if this is known, I feel like spamming this around, since I mentioned it in three threads now... ^^
Post by: Ultimuh on April 02, 2012, 06:13:00 am
So which parts of the raws should I be looking for?
edit:
Also.. what parts are related to the Meowkin?
And what can I leave out of their entity file?
Post by: Pan on April 02, 2012, 06:33:02 am
I like the archeology idea and would like to port it over to a personal pack of mixed mods..
So which parts of the raws should I be looking for?
edit:
Also.. what parts are related to the Meowkin?
And what can I leave out of their entity file?
Don't have any love for the meowkin? I'd imagine you just remove the entity file for them. But I'd wait around for someone more skilled at modding to appear here.
Post by: Ultimuh on April 02, 2012, 07:00:35 am
I like the archeology idea and would like to port it over to a personal pack of mixed mods..
So which parts of the raws should I be looking for?
edit:
Also.. what parts are related to the Meowkin?
And what can I leave out of their entity file?
Don't have any love for the meowkin? I'd imagine you just remove the entity file for them. But I'd wait around for someone more skilled at modding to appear here.
Nonono..
I meant I DO like them, but what raws are directly related to them
and what from this mod can I take out of their entety file so that I can use them in another mod?
Post by: narhiril on April 02, 2012, 09:25:34 am
I like the archeology idea and would like to port it over to a personal pack of mixed mods..
So which parts of the raws should I be looking for?
edit:
Also.. what parts are related to the Meowkin?
And what can I leave out of their entity file?
Nonono..
I meant I DO like them, but what raws are directly related to them
and what from this mod can I take out of their entety file so that I can use them in another mod?
Oh boy, where to begin...
LFR's archaeology lab...
building_mechanical_lfr.txt
reaction_archaeology_lfr.txt
inorganic_z_stone_mineral_vanguard.txt
...Unfortunately, you'll find that it's pretty heavily interwoven with other elements of the mod. It requires advanced mechanisms (a custom tool) to construct, which themselves require another custom building, toy, and reaction to unlock...
...And then the reaction products are an even bigger mess, calling custom materials from custom templates, custom weapons, custom gems, custom tool types... You would need to basically gut the reactions and the building reagents if you wanted to actually use any of this outside of LFR and rebuild them from scratch, which is not something you'd need my permission for (except for the building artwork, which you're welcome to use as long as I'm credited).
The meowkin are a lot easier to separate, involving the following files almost exclusively...
item_armor_meow.txt
language_FRENCH.txt
creature_meow.txt
entity_meow.txt
The only issue you should find here is a reference in the entity to a custom weapon (the quarterstaff), which you can easily replace with [WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_SPEAR] or something.
If you want to include the graphics, you'll need...
graphics/lfr_meowkin.png
And you'll need to dig their tile page and offsets out of graphics/graphics_custom_lfr.txt, which is really easy since that file is separated pretty nicely into little sections.
Dont know if you already know this, but you can use CAST_COLOR and ADD_COLOR instead of AS_IS in the graphics file to give the castes a different hue. Not sure how useful that is for you, but I just added it for my magical units, so people can easier identify their mages. Your emberlights could have a red glow on them for example, and they would still use their dwarven sprites.
Sorry if this is known, I feel like spamming this around, since I mentioned it in three threads now... ^^
I appreciate the heads up here. I knew about ADD_COLOR, but not about CASTE_COLOR. Do these take any arguments, and if so, are they in standard 0:0:0 color form or actual color tokens?
Post by: Meph on April 02, 2012, 09:33:29 am
Post by: narhiril on April 02, 2012, 09:37:29 am
CASTE_COLOR:0:0:0 is the tag, defined after SELECT_CASTE. Standard colors to pick from. The background color really only changes the background, the foreground overlays the sprite.
(http://29.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lltzgnHi5F1qzib3wo1_400.jpg)
Narhiril, I see from your screenshots some pretty nice fortress designs. Might I ask that you upload some of your fortress' screenshots? I must say I have been having a creativity blocks with fortress designs, and I must say I am intrigued by what little I see from your screenshots.
Most of my fortresses look the same, since I found a design that works for me and just kind of keep re-using it. Here are a few from my latest test fort...
Spoiler: image 1 (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: image 2 (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: image 3 (click to show/hide)
Post by: narhiril on April 02, 2012, 11:24:28 am
This one was supposed to just be a re-packaging with DF v0.34.07, but it was so much of a task to try to keep all of the new files and changed ones out of it that I decided not to bother. As a result, a number of additions and bugfixes made it in for both the pre-installed and raw only versions.
As usual, please report any issues you find as soon as they come up. This is really more of a revision than the new content release suggested by the version number, but with the new DF build and re-packing everything, it's too heavy a revision not to give it a new number.
Post by: Ultimuh on April 02, 2012, 02:47:10 pm
I like the archeology idea and would like to port it over to a personal pack of mixed mods..
So which parts of the raws should I be looking for?
edit:
Also.. what parts are related to the Meowkin?
And what can I leave out of their entity file?
Nonono..
I meant I DO like them, but what raws are directly related to them
and what from this mod can I take out of their entety file so that I can use them in another mod?
Oh boy, where to begin...
-snip-
Thanks, too bad about the archeologist workshop tough.
Ah well, I'll see what I can do.
Post by: Zanara on April 02, 2012, 06:23:56 pm
Post by: Pan on April 02, 2012, 09:23:26 pm
I like the archeology idea and would like to port it over to a personal pack of mixed mods..
So which parts of the raws should I be looking for?
edit:
Also.. what parts are related to the Meowkin?
And what can I leave out of their entity file?
Nonono..
I meant I DO like them, but what raws are directly related to them
and what from this mod can I take out of their entety file so that I can use them in another mod?
Oh boy, where to begin...
-snip-
Thanks, too bad about the archeologist workshop tough.
Ah well, I'll see what I can do.
Well, you can always do some light modding. Change the materials needed to build the archeology workshop to not have any LFR related things. You then also copy over the stuff needed for the vanguard ruins rock that the archeology workshop uses. I don't know how to do this, but it's definitely possible.
Post by: vorpal+5 on April 03, 2012, 12:50:28 am
I guess I'll have to overwrite the raw of my saves with the raw of the install to have it works properly?
A general question, does it exists some kind of automated defence in the mod? Say automatons, defence turrets, etc.?
Post by: Pan on April 03, 2012, 03:05:03 am
Post by: Pan on April 03, 2012, 06:43:28 am
Although some concerns of mine are in the voidwalkers difficulty that has been ramped up due to the metal requirements the new version adds. I guess I'll have to rely less on soldiers and more on traps.
Post by: Jilladilla on April 03, 2012, 11:22:09 am
Post by: fire1666 on April 03, 2012, 11:26:59 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
but on a side note my dwarf therapist wonr work with the current version of LFR any help?
Post by: Jilladilla on April 03, 2012, 11:56:18 am
(no offance to anyone) im not a great fan of relegion or the idea of using it for weapons but, i do belive it would be good idea to try to make relegion more beneficial like the weapon elemental cross over idea alot, i would love to see my spear dwarfs setting goblings on fire, or freezing them in ice :Dbut anyways, its you mod at the end of the day, do as you please.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
but on a side note my dwarf therapist wonr work with the current version of LFR any help?
well Armok IS the god of blood, war, and by association, death; so getting weapons from him seems to be natural
and remember that emberlights tend to set more than the current siege on fire
Post by: narhiril on April 03, 2012, 12:54:06 pm
Bartoth's "tempests" will be some interesting units... and ones that will probably prove to be the most useful for those of you looking to capture some TRAPAVOID creatures. Tempests will specialize in paralysis, pain, and huge areas of effect. Their power comes at a price, though - tempests suffer from extremely low strength and toughness, so they fight by trying to prevent enemies from ever reaching them.
Planned abilities:
"Thunder wave" - paralyzes enemies in a wide area for a very short duration. Medium cooldown. Pokemon reference. ;)
"Thunderclap" - stuns nearby enemies for a very short duration and removes NOFEAR. Also impairs hearing for a short duration (mostly useless cosmetic effect). Medium cooldown.
"Electromagnetic pulse" - prevents an enemy from being affected by certain abilities for a medium duration*. Short cooldown.
"Plasma build-up" - Allows use of the next ability for a short duration. Long cooldown.
"Plasma barrage" - fires a barrage of plasma at a large area, causing extreme pain and possible (rare) organ failure. Very short cooldown.
"Calm before the storm" - buffs a wavebreaker and/or a zephyr for a combo ability. Discussed below. Short cooldown.
*This ability will block the effect of
Tempests will also possess the first ever "cross-class combo ability" with wavebreakers and zephyrs. Requirements for this ability are as follows...
-A tempest must buff a wavebreaker or zephyr with "calm before the storm." Voidwalker mistshrouds can block this buff within a short radius.
-Potential hostile targets must not have NOEMOTION, NOSTUN, or NOFEAR.
-A tempest must cast thunderclap on potential targets.
Once all of these conditions are met, the following abilites can be used.
Wavebreakers - "Perfect storm" - unleashes a cataclysmic barrage of hail over a short period of time. Also causes blind for a short duration.
Zephyrs - "Gale force" - "knocks down" enemies within range, preventing movement for a short time. Also fires a large number of air blasts (same projectile as usual zephyr abiliy).
This is an extremely ambitious project, which will be a complicated balancing act. Expect further news as it becomes available.
Post by: Meph on April 03, 2012, 01:33:14 pm
Are you certain that there is not too much brain involved in this, considering that the only orders you can give them is: Go someplace near enemies. ?
Post by: narhiril on April 03, 2012, 02:17:59 pm
When I read this I have to think of micromanagement in Starcraft, and how utterly devastating a good mix of abilities is. Then I image Starcraft Units with the AI of a dwarf, and without the ability to give them direct order... the horror...
Are you certain that there is not too much brain involved in this, considering that the only orders you can give them is: Go someplace near enemies. ?
They take care of it on their own remarkably well, actually, simply by restricting targets properly. As I've talked about before, if you do that properly, you can almost fake your way to a new AI. Having a wavebreaker and a tempest in the same squad allows for all sorts of mayhem to start without a need for more than a move order. It should be interesting when you put them together. The upside is that these abilities are very powerful - the downside is that if the fragile tempest dies, they go away, allowing the tides of battle to shift rapidly with the death of a single important unit.
As the dwarven ritual units get more powerful, expect other races to develop counters to them to make things more FUN. Voidwalker mistshrouds, for example, will be able to seal this particular combo ability with an interaction, while nephilim chanters can use morale interactions to put the NOFEAR token on themselves, making them ineligible targets. Like reality, battles with the nephilim will go back and forth based on their ability to motivate their troops against your forces versus your ability to intimidate them. The lizardmen and bog trolls will also get involved in that sort of thing shortly, not to mention the shedim, which seem to be getting close to being officially releasable. If anything, I feel sorry for the poor goblins, who I haven't touched since simplified clothing came out.
Post by: narhiril on April 03, 2012, 03:42:57 pm
Namely, I've been bouncing some around with Meph and D_E about a way to create a creature in a reaction rather than sacrifice a dwarf, and it's showing some promise. Expect a little bit of Elder Scrolls dwemer homage in the next update with LFR's first ever fully functional and controllable mechanical constructs. They're not damascus sentinels, but they're a start.
Post by: narhiril on April 03, 2012, 06:03:52 pm
Spoiler: Images (click to show/hide)
...Overall, a pretty productive afternoon.
Post by: Jilladilla on April 03, 2012, 07:15:05 pm
wow... just wow... i can't really say any more...
keep doing what you do best!
(whats with the dragon thing? just seems utterly random, im not saying that random is bad... its just unexpected)
Post by: Pan on April 03, 2012, 09:23:48 pm
Post by: Jilladilla on April 03, 2012, 09:33:54 pm
now goblins and lizardmen... well i'll let narhiril surprise me there
Post by: Meph on April 03, 2012, 09:42:51 pm
Post by: Pan on April 03, 2012, 09:58:56 pm
Post by: Putnam on April 03, 2012, 11:52:12 pm
Wow... I appear to have underestimated what interactions can achieve.
[VERBAL].
That is all.
Post by: fire1666 on April 04, 2012, 02:28:14 am
bloddy hell...Spoiler: Images (click to show/hide)
...Overall, a pretty productive afternoon.
anyways any answers for my dwarf therapist problem?
plz halp
Post by: fire1666 on April 04, 2012, 02:37:05 am
a (some what) Necromancer that resurrects nearby voidwalkers ONLY, that could make them even more challenging to fight, also possibly reactive armor???
but also i think i need to clarrify what i said earlyer.
(no offance to anyone) im not a great fan of relegion or the idea of using it for weapons but, i do belive it would be good idea to try to make relegion more beneficial like the weapon elemental cross over idea alot, i would love to see my spear dwarfs setting goblings on fire, or freezing them in ice :Dwhat i ment was i think its ok for weapons ect to be enchanted but not dwarfen casters, my reason (yes fire what could possibly be a good reason for this argument)
the last thing we need are 2 10 dorf squads of JUST caster, e.g. fire. then there will be no need for the tech.
otherwise i think this mod looks very good and promasing, i would donate but i dont have credit card + no job atm XD.
but a bit of a bug...
I cant use therapist with current version of LFR this is what i get
Im sorry but I dont know how to talk to this version of dwarf fortress (checksum:0x4f7592fe)
Post by: Pan on April 04, 2012, 04:53:16 am
Post by: fire1666 on April 04, 2012, 11:52:31 am
You voice some valid concerns. Yes, narhiril, what with all the wonders of current ritual, how can the mechanical tech tree ever compete?thx for that :D
the only way i think would be either of the following...
1. explosive ordanance / Explosive arrows /bolts /bullets
2. robotic armor (retractive gauntlet blades)
3. damage reducers (mostlikly impossible)
4.mechanical turrets?
anyways thats what i think would make it awesome :D
maby a tech piece that disables relegion system BUT allows the same benefits e.g. mass fabricator?
possibly something you link to a leaver that takes from ammo depots within (set distance) and automaticly fire in a givern direction.
if u like ideas... good luck implimenting them XD
Post by: narhiril on April 04, 2012, 12:01:35 pm
You voice some valid concerns. Yes, narhiril, what with all the wonders of current ritual, how can the mechanical tech tree ever compete?
Ritual units are rather difficult to amass with the no-guarantees reactions. Right now, we're only dealing with "lesser" ritual units.... a few abilities here and there and that's that. Yes, they're powerful, and they add a versatility to a dwarven force not previously seen, but they're also very unreliable in practice, taking a massive amount of resources for what they give. If need arises, I can tweak this cost as I see fit, but I haven't yet seen sufficient evidence to believe that the current ritual units are anything but fair. If I had to tweak anything, I might move the "prayer for ritual materials" to the temple of origin when it's finished.
Future, more powerful ritual units will carry other risks associated with them. You might get the powerful juggernaut to crown as your champion that you desire, but you might get something else - maybe turning into a chicken or spreading a plague or accidentally summoning a greater demon. Those things tend to screw up fortresses in a hurry. The ritual tree, particularly the higher end of it, is high risk, high reward.
In contrast, the risks of the tech tree are considerably lower. While some reactions may pose risk to individual dwarves or nearby flammable materials, decent stockpile management and workshop placement makes this relatively safe. The rewards from the tech tree are not always as grand in scale as the ritual units, but are every bit as powerful in practice. It takes a lot of time, patience, investment, trial, error, trial, error, and more trial to finally get something like a hadrine or dart launcher production line going, but once established, production is limited only by your resources. Given a choice between a squad of wavebreakers (which takes a LONG time and a LOT of cobalt and silver to build up) and a squad of normal dwarves with hadrine helms with advanced bayonet dart launchers, I'd probably pick the marksdwarves - simply because when a ritual unit (not counting the currently unfinished paragon) dies, the investment is lost with it. When a marskdwarf dies, someone else can grab his stuff and take over. The system is also set up to encourage player choices... You can pour your resources into one tree or the other to advance faster, or you can build them both up (at considerably greater cost) to get a squad of zephyrs with spring-loaded bayonet crossbows - which, might I add, kick a disproportionate amount of ass.
Admittedly, at the moment, the ritual tree is a lot flashier than the tech tree, but here's a glimpse of what's planned for the next tier or two...
-Mechanical constructs - creating special, friendly creatures from reactions. Yes, this works (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=106301.30). The first of these will be the Elder Scrolls style "dwarven spider prototype" seen in the screenshot a few posts back, but these will build up to more advanced systems. Some of these constructs can be repaired if destroyed (don't ask, I haven't written this massive block of interaction code yet).
-Armor upgrades - pieces of armor to be worn on top of regular armor for added protection. If you want to test one of these out, open up arena and equip someone with a "steel strength field barrier pack." in addition to regular armor and watch.
-Vaccines - abilities granted via syndrome to combat the plagues from the future ritual tree advances.
-Elixirs - alcohol that grants special bonuses (speed boost, etc).
-Silk farms.
once again i dont know if this is possible, but i thought of somthing cool for the void walkers.
a (some what) Necromancer that resurrects nearby voidwalkers ONLY, that could make them even more challenging to fight, also possibly reactive armor???
Voidwalkers don't leave corpses, so this is problematic. I am considering this ability for the shedim, however. I have more sinister plans for the voidwalkers once the dwarves get powerful enough to warrant them. :)
I cant use therapist with current version of LFR this is what i get
Im sorry but I dont know how to talk to this version of dwarf fortress (checksum:0x4f7592fe)
I haven't touched the executable, so this is probably a DT issue. Try downloading the latest release over on that thread.
I should also note that the unofficial "caste patch" version of DT doesn't quite work right with LFR - it runs, but it gets the castes wrong. Not really sure why, but it's not my project.
Post by: fire1666 on April 04, 2012, 12:48:56 pm
kk thx for the DT advice ill work on that shortly, also thanks for clarafying the rirural units thing :DYou voice some valid concerns. Yes, narhiril, what with all the wonders of current ritual, how can the mechanical tech tree ever compete?
Ritual units are rather difficult to amass with the no-guarantees reactions. Right now, we're only dealing with "lesser" ritual units.... a few abilities here and there and that's that. Yes, they're powerful, and they add a versatility to a dwarven force not previously seen, but they're also very unreliable in practice, taking a massive amount of resources for what they give. If need arises, I can tweak this cost as I see fit, but I haven't yet seen sufficient evidence to believe that the current ritual units are anything but fair. If I had to tweak anything, I might move the "prayer for ritual materials" to the temple of origin when it's finished.
Future, more powerful ritual units will carry other risks associated with them. You might get the powerful juggernaut to crown as your champion that you desire, but you might get something else - maybe turning into a chicken or spreading a plague or accidentally summoning a greater demon. Those things tend to screw up fortresses in a hurry. The ritual tree, particularly the higher end of it, is high risk, high reward.
In contrast, the risks of the tech tree are considerably lower. While some reactions may pose risk to individual dwarves or nearby flammable materials, decent stockpile management and workshop placement makes this relatively safe. The rewards from the tech tree are not always as grand in scale as the ritual units, but are every bit as powerful in practice. It takes a lot of time, patience, investment, trial, error, trial, error, and more trial to finally get something like a hadrine or dart launcher production line going, but once established, production is limited only by your resources. Given a choice between a squad of wavebreakers (which takes a LONG time and a LOT of cobalt and silver to build up) and a squad of normal dwarves with hadrine helms with advanced bayonet dart launchers, I'd probably pick the marksdwarves - simply because when a ritual unit (not counting the currently unfinished paragon) dies, the investment is lost with it. When a marskdwarf dies, someone else can grab his stuff and take over. The system is also set up to encourage player choices... You can pour your resources into one tree or the other to advance faster, or you can build them both up (at considerably greater cost) to get a squad of zephyrs with spring-loaded bayonet crossbows - which, might I add, kick a disproportionate amount of ass.
Admittedly, at the moment, the ritual tree is a lot flashier than the tech tree, but here's a glimpse of what's planned for the next tier or two...
-Mechanical constructs - creating special, friendly creatures from reactions. Yes, this works (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=106301.30). The first of these will be the Elder Scrolls style "dwarven spider prototype" seen in the screenshot a few posts back, but these will build up to more advanced systems. Some of these constructs can be repaired if destroyed (don't ask, I haven't written this massive block of interaction code yet).
-Armor upgrades - pieces of armor to be worn on top of regular armor for added protection. If you want to test one of these out, open up arena and equip someone with a "steel strength field barrier pack." in addition to regular armor and watch.
-Vaccines - abilities granted via syndrome to combat the plagues from the future ritual tree advances.
-Elixirs - alcohol that grants special bonuses (speed boost, etc).
-Silk farms.once again i dont know if this is possible, but i thought of somthing cool for the void walkers.
a (some what) Necromancer that resurrects nearby voidwalkers ONLY, that could make them even more challenging to fight, also possibly reactive armor???
Voidwalkers don't leave corpses, so this is problematic. I am considering this ability for the shedim, however. I have more sinister plans for the voidwalkers once the dwarves get powerful enough to warrant them. :)I cant use therapist with current version of LFR this is what i get
Im sorry but I dont know how to talk to this version of dwarf fortress (checksum:0x4f7592fe)
I haven't touched the executable, so this is probably a DT issue. Try downloading the latest release over on that thread.
I should also note that the unofficial "caste patch" version of DT doesn't quite work right with LFR - it runs, but it gets the castes wrong. Not really sure why, but it's not my project.
i hope the mod goes well
also i love the idea of making void walkers tougher once again might be impossible to code, but maby the more they get hurt the more fanatical in combact, martial trance on styeroids? i would lol so much about that
Void walker (name) has cancled attack dorf: GONE ABSOLUTLY BAT SH*T INSANE!!!!!
2 minutes later
The siege is over......
9001 dorfs dead with only one voidwalker left standing XD
(sry had to be done)
Post by: fire1666 on April 04, 2012, 12:55:12 pm
Post by: Atlan on April 04, 2012, 01:23:08 pm
could voidwalkers could drop a soul gem that can be made into a void thrall (weaker voidwalker[could conter the no corpse problem])
If they dropped a soul gem and you could recover them before anyone thrall'd, there's all sorts of fun !!SCIENCE!! I could see involved. Slaying your enemies and using their souls as a long-term power source? Refining their very souls into weapons to fight off their friends, some sort of soul spear made to pierce the spirit instead of the physical body? Smells like dwarf fortress.
Post by: fire1666 on April 04, 2012, 01:36:46 pm
smells like a new update to LFR if u ask me XDcould voidwalkers could drop a soul gem that can be made into a void thrall (weaker voidwalker[could conter the no corpse problem])
If they dropped a soul gem and you could recover them before anyone thrall'd, there's all sorts of fun !!SCIENCE!! I could see involved. Slaying your enemies and using their souls as a long-term power source? Refining their very souls into weapons to fight off their friends, some sort of soul spear made to pierce the spirit instead of the physical body? Smells like dwarf fortress.
Post by: Undeadlord on April 04, 2012, 01:52:47 pm
No problem, just get me a few voidwalker, goblin, orc, FB soul gems to power it ... :)
Post by: Atlan on April 04, 2012, 01:54:40 pm
smells like a new update to LFR if u ask me XD
I wouldn't be that overly confident. They're neat ideas, but Narhi has many plans already laid out for the future of LFR. I'm always more interested in the tech tree advances though, and I'll try to come up with some novel concepts that might be used in them. Truth be told, I haven't bothered making a single shrine except one or two plays. !!Science!! > Religion, to me :3
Post by: narhiril on April 04, 2012, 02:06:47 pm
Code: [Select]
[CREATURE:DWARF_SPIDER_ALPHA_LFR]
[DESCRIPTION:A small, eight-legged mechanical device. Through intense research and development, the dwarves have managed to give it a rudimentary control system that can detect and respond to basic threats. It is not very durable, however.]
[NAME:dwarven spider prototype:dwarven spider prototypes:prototype]
[CASTE_NAME:dwarven spider prototype:dwarven spider prototypes:prototype]
[CREATURE_TILE:249][COLOR:6:0:1]
[PREFSTRING:mechanical eyes]
[PREFSTRING:robotic noises]
[PREFSTRING:metal bodies]
[NOT_LIVING]
[SPEED:700]
[LIKES_FIGHTING]
[FIREIMMUNE_SUPER][MAGMA_VISION][AMPHIBIOUS]
[NOFEAR][NOEXERT][NOPAIN][NOEMOTION][NONAUSEA][NO_SLEEP][NOSTUN][NO_EAT][NO_DRINK][NO_GENDER][NO_FEVERS][PARALYZEIMMUNE][NOBREATHE]
[BODY:MECH_SPIDER_LFR:VISUAL_SCANNER_LFR:EXHAUST_PIPE_LOWERBODY_LFR:CONTROL_MODULE]
[BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:MECH_MATERIALS_IRON]
[BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:MECH_TISSUES_IRON]
[BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:MECH_EYE_MATERIALS]
[BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:MECH_EYE_TISSUES]
[BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:CONTROL_MODULE_TEMPLATE]
[BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:CONTROL_MODULE_TISSUE_TEMPLATE]
[BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:MECH_SPIDER_TISSUE_LAYERS:ARMOR:SKIN:BONE]
[TISSUE_LAYER:BY_CATEGORY:EYE:MECH_EYE:NORMAL]
[TISSUE_LAYER:BY_CATEGORY:EXHAUST:ARMOR:NORMAL]
[TISSUE_LAYER:BY_CATEGORY:BRAIN:CONTROL_MODULE:NORMAL]
[CREATURE_CLASS:LFR_MECHANICAL]
[BODY_SIZE:0:0:7000]
[BODY_APPEARANCE_MODIFIER:HEIGHT:75:95:98:100:102:105:125]
[APP_MOD_IMPORTANCE:500]
[BODY_APPEARANCE_MODIFIER:BROADNESS:75:95:98:100:102:105:125]
[APP_MOD_IMPORTANCE:500]
[ATTACK:KICK:BODYPART:BY_TYPE:STANCE]
[ATTACK_SKILL:STANCE_STRIKE]
[ATTACK_VERB:slash:slashes]
[ATTACK_CONTACT_PERC:100]
[ATTACK_FLAG_WITH]
[ATTACK_PRIORITY:SECOND]
[ATTACK_FLAG_EDGE]
[HOMEOTHERM:10020]
[SWIMS_INNATE][SWIM_SPEED:2200]
[NATURAL_SKILL:STANCE_STRIKE:3]
[NATURAL_SKILL:MELEE_COMBAT:3]
[NATURAL_SKILL:DODGING:3]
[NATURAL_SKILL:SITUATIONAL_AWARENESS:3]
[SOUND:PEACEFUL_INTERMITTENT:12:1000:NONE:click:clicks:clicking]
[SOUND:ALERT:100:1500:NONE:clank:clanks:clanking]
[SOUND:ALERT:20:2000:NONE:beep:beeps:beeping at regular intervals]
[CASTE:GENERIC]
[SELECT_CASTE:ALL]
[SET_TL_GROUP:BY_CATEGORY:ALL:SKIN]
[TL_COLOR_MODIFIER:RED:1:GREEN:1:BLUE:1:YELLOW:1:WHITE:1:BLACK:1:AQUAMARINE:1:JADE:1:INDIGO:1]
[TLCM_NOUN:paint:SINGULAR]
This has a fair number of dependencies, but most of it's there... And they kick sickening amounts of ass. I put 8 of them in arena and then put them up against three aatxes (I tend to use the aatxe as a benchmark for strength) and they killed all three within seconds - the only injury sustained being one of them losing a leg in the process. Looks like these little guys are going to be pretty expensive... You'll have to construct the frame and the control core to make one, and I'm currently deciding on what those will require. Obviously, iron and copper will be involved.
What I found so suprising (read: amusing) was that their size is not very big... roughly 11% of a dwarf's adult size, and yet they still swarmed and easily defeated a creature over twenty times larger. If this is any indication, future mechanical constructs are going to be a terrifying thing indeed.
... All of this gave me a sickening idea for a new monster in the deep caverns. Between these, the two new greater demons, and jagged crystal dragons, things underground are about to get a lot more FUN.
Whats that? You want to build a giant mechanical spider of Doom to defeat your enemies?
No problem, just get me a few voidwalker, goblin, orc, FB soul gems to power it ... :)
A "soul gem" system, or soul harvesting, is something I can actually implement. I like the idea of incorporating this into mechanical constructs, so stay tuned for more on that front.
Many of the more advanced mechanical units will require rare reagents, such as ectoplasmic remnants, sentinel cores, clockwork pendants, and twisted prisms (not yet implemented - planned drop for the jagged crystal dragon). Basically, that means you'll need to start hunting down some powerful creatures and/or vanguard ruins if you want some of LFR's most advanced constructs on your side. That's not until tier five, though. ;)
smells like a new update to LFR if u ask me XD
I wouldn't be that overly confident. They're neat ideas, but Narhi has many plans already laid out for the future of LFR. I'm always more interested in the tech tree advances though, and I'll try to come up with some novel concepts that might be used in them. Truth be told, I haven't bothered making a single shrine except one or two plays. !!Science!! > Religion, to me :3
While I tend to agree with you, I think you'll really like paragons and radiant priests. ^_^
Also, I'm making an executive decision to change the "EMP" ability for tempests. Instead of blocking abilities, this spell will interfere with a target mechanical creature. So if you're hunting damascus sentinels, you might want to bring one along... Just try not to let him get punched.
Post by: Atlan on April 04, 2012, 02:13:28 pm
Post by: Vanaheimer on April 04, 2012, 03:27:06 pm
Post by: Jilladilla on April 04, 2012, 05:44:58 pm
Perhaps to make them more expensive you could bump up the quality of the metal? Instead of iron and copper, use steel and orichalcum... that would make them very expensive indeed.
but iron is used for the main chassis of it, if we replaced iron with steel, yes it would be more expensive but it would be that much more powerful!
besides, we might see a disproportionately large amounts of iron needed, because surely something this precise and delicate would warrent several messups
This has a fair number of dependencies, but most of it's there... And they kick sickening amounts of ass. I put 8 of them in arena and then put them up against three aatxes (I tend to use the aatxe as a benchmark for strength) and they killed all three within seconds - the only injury sustained being one of them losing a leg in the process. Looks like these little guys are going to be pretty expensive... You'll have to construct the frame and the control core to make one, and I'm currently deciding on what those will require. Obviously, iron and copper will be involved.
What I found so suprising (read: amusing) was that their size is not very big... roughly 11% of a dwarf's adult size, and yet they still swarmed and easily defeated a creature over twenty times larger. If this is any indication, future mechanical constructs are going to be a terrifying thing indeed.
wow... just wow..... i just got a picture of a kobold storming a dwarven fort in a (stolen) giant mech of doom...
Post by: Undeadlord on April 04, 2012, 07:07:27 pm
Post by: DustanH on April 04, 2012, 07:20:12 pm
Post by: Jilladilla on April 04, 2012, 07:29:13 pm
Maybe keep the material copper to keep it weak? Think that iron and steel are too rigid, only copper has the flexibility to make segmented legs and such. Or some other idea to limit the fact you don't want steel spiders.
if the entire thing was copper... well how would the electrical components work? the entire thing would be one large awkwardly shaped wire
Post by: Pan on April 04, 2012, 08:45:16 pm
I tend to use the aatxe as a benchmark for strength
Obviously not because they are the first units on the list in arena mode. :P
To make constructs expensive, how about requiring lots of orihalcum? I mean, dwarves producing such things is quite unbelievable. I imagine they would need some magical material to aid in that. I mean, creating golems and such in games usually required some form of magic. To be pure engineering... hell, I think we modern day humans are just only starting such things.
So make all contructs require a steady amount of orihalcum. Each tier up will require more and more. Copper, iron and steel are all easy as hell to get once you get the right couple of workshops and natural raw materials up. Orihalcum is hard to get and can therefore turn mechanical contructs expensive - more than any amount of iron, copper or steel ever will.
So we could have the ability to make these spider droids out of mithril, iron, steel or copper. But each reaction not only takes their namesake metal, but also the same amount of orihalcum. Plus the core and frame and stuff as well, of course.
Post by: Stirk on April 04, 2012, 11:59:53 pm
Quote
To make constructs expensive, how about requiring lots of orihalcum? I mean, dwarves producing such things is quite unbelievable. I imagine they would need some magical material to aid in that. I mean, creating golems and such in games usually required some form of magic. To be pure engineering... hell, I think we modern day humans are just only starting such things.
Be fair to the dwarves. They have created force fields they wear on their back, created cannons that fire lava, and have rail guns. They are not exactly medieval technology, and the "Technology" that they have is mostly alchemical and steampunk. I think our dwarves can handle making steampunk spiders.
As for making them more expensive, I suggest adding lustrem to make them for fuel. Unless that is already in there...
Quote
if the entire thing was copper... well how would the electrical components work? the entire thing would be one large awkwardly shaped wire
I assume they don't have bear wire? It would work like any other metal box would. It isn't like steel or iron don't conduct electricity...
Post by: fire1666 on April 05, 2012, 01:53:59 am
i'v used the pre installed LFR with dwarf therapist but it wont work, so what do i do?
should i just wait tilll next update? :D
Post by: vorpal+5 on April 05, 2012, 02:01:51 am
Will the tech tree also allows to get elixirs that repair body parts or regrow them? :D
Post by: fire1666 on April 05, 2012, 02:29:03 am
Will the tech tree also allows to get elixirs that repair body parts or regrow them? :Dthat sounds more like a relegion thingy but very rare :-\
come to think of it that would be so awesome if you did that
Post by: Pan on April 05, 2012, 07:16:51 am
I need this date to fake my own death so I can devote my time entirely to DF LFR. (and AGoT season 2, but that's another story)
Post by: Demiurge on April 05, 2012, 09:12:28 am
Additionally you could have its abilities based on the materials of the components. A bronze mechanism would make it faster than a copper mechanism and a lens made from rarer gems would increase its skills in combat.
Hell I would love for there to be many tiers of golems. For example when starting out in a new area I would create a wooden golem and imbue it with life through a ritual and the only components needed would be wood, two gems for the eyes and successful prayer at the altar (20% success, components lost on failure). Same with stone golems but with slightly higher material costs. That way I could have quick and expendable defences up in the first year with proper preperation.
Edit: For metal golems, how about balancing their higher strength with vulnerable joints? So a strike to the arms or legs would have a chance to shatter the knee or elbow or sever it outright if the golem is not a top tier or war grade production.
Edit2: The best golems should be artifacts! So a smith claims a golem forge and needs components made from very specific materials. Also the only way to obtain mithril or better golems!
Edit3: Here's what I imagine a steel golem would require.
One heart of gold, created in the temple from a gold bar and one fuel.
Three advanced bronze mechanisms, created at the tier 2 mechanics workshop.
Two sapphire lenses, created in the jewellers workshop.
One Steel chasis, forged in the metalsmiths forge from 10 steel bars and the three mechanisms.
One copper dynamo, created at the tier 2 mechanics workshop.
One ectoplasmic remnant
One golem core, created from the heart of gold and the ectoplasmic remnant in the golem forge.
That's just my imagined scenario though :)
Post by: Pan on April 05, 2012, 09:52:27 am
Several tiers of materials for constructs could be implemented. You could have layers of production so you would create the chasis in the forge from iron, steel or whatever and create the fine mechanisms elsewhere. Mechanisms of copper, heart of gold, crystal lenses etc. There's tons of potential for creating the many components needed to complete a final automaton with the payoff being the automaton is stronger.
Additionally you could have its abilities based on the materials of the components. A bronze mechanism would make it faster than a copper mechanism and a lens made from rarer gems would increase its skills in combat.
Hell I would love for there to be many tiers of golems. For example when starting out in a new area I would create a wooden golem and imbue it with life through a ritual and the only components needed would be wood, two gems for the eyes and successful prayer at the altar (20% success, components lost on failure). Same with stone golems but with slightly higher material costs. That way I could have quick and expendable defences up in the first year with proper preperation.
Edit: For metal golems, how about balancing their higher strength with vulnerable joints? So a strike to the arms or legs would have a chance to shatter the knee or elbow or sever it outright if the golem is not a top tier or war grade production.
Edit2: The best golems should be artifacts! So a smith claims a golem forge and needs components made from very specific materials. Also the only way to obtain mithril or better golems!
Edit3: Here's what I imagine a steel golem would require.
One heart of gold, created in the temple from a gold bar and one fuel.
Three advanced bronze mechanisms, created at the tier 2 mechanics workshop.
Two sapphire lenses, created in the jewellers workshop.
One Steel chasis, forged in the metalsmiths forge from 10 steel bars and the three mechanisms.
One copper dynamo, created at the tier 2 mechanics workshop.
One ectoplasmic remnant
One golem core, created from the heart of gold and the ectoplasmic remnant in the golem forge.
That's just my imagined scenario though :)
Not bad ideas at all. Ectoplasmic remnant is a great idea. You get it from tech tree. It's hard to get. It's limited. It's got a good story behind it (a soul sort of thing, no? Ritual with that frees a banshee or something?).
Post by: Demiurge on April 05, 2012, 10:04:55 am
Post by: narhiril on April 05, 2012, 01:23:33 pm
Ive tryed everything now.....
i'v used the pre installed LFR with dwarf therapist but it wont work, so what do i do?
should i just wait tilll next update? :D
Spoiler: Image (click to show/hide)
I'm afraid I can't do anything to fix it if I can't replicate the problem.
As a newbie LFR player, please be sure to keep the documentation up to date on the new features, or they will only be used by a few grognards players who follow the mod everyday. :-\
Will the tech tree also allows to get elixirs that repair body parts or regrow them? :D
I definitely try, and I feel like I've done a pretty decent job thus far. If there is any aspect of the documentation that you find insufficient, please be sure to let me know.
Additionally you could have its abilities based on the materials of the components. A bronze mechanism would make it faster than a copper mechanism and a lens made from rarer gems would increase its skills in combat.
...This would require a different creature (or at least a different caste) for every possible permutation of gems, mechanisms, metals, and so on. I'd finish that by the time DF hit 1.0, if I was lucky.
That being said, a more limited system of material and component advances is something I plan to do.
Not bad ideas at all. Ectoplasmic remnant is a great idea. You get it from tech tree. It's hard to get. It's limited. It's got a good story behind it (a soul sort of thing, no? Ritual with that frees a banshee or something?).
I'm liking that component. :)
I tend to use the aatxe as a benchmark for strength
Obviously not because they are the first units on the list in arena mode. :P
To make constructs expensive, how about requiring lots of orihalcum? I mean, dwarves producing such things is quite unbelievable. I imagine they would need some magical material to aid in that. I mean, creating golems and such in games usually required some form of magic. To be pure engineering... hell, I think we modern day humans are just only starting such things.
So make all contructs require a steady amount of orihalcum. Each tier up will require more and more. Copper, iron and steel are all easy as hell to get once you get the right couple of workshops and natural raw materials up. Orihalcum is hard to get and can therefore turn mechanical contructs expensive - more than any amount of iron, copper or steel ever will.
So we could have the ability to make these spider droids out of mithril, iron, steel or copper. But each reaction not only takes their namesake metal, but also the same amount of orihalcum. Plus the core and frame and stuff as well, of course.
Orichalcum will probably be involved. Lustrum definitely will. Also, touche. :)
Will the tech tree also allows to get elixirs that repair body parts or regrow them? :Dthat sounds more like a relegion thingy but very rare :-\
come to think of it that would be so awesome if you did that
Can do, will do.
So this all just blew my mind. I'm sorry for asking such a pressuring question, but what time do you estimate these features to be completed and ready to release? (complete testing is done, of course, by us)
I need this date to fake my own death so I can devote my time entirely to DF LFR. (and AGoT season 2, but that's another story)
It's probably going to come in waves. The next release, hopefully, will have the shedim fully implemented and the temple of the orphan ready to go. Depending on how that tests, I might be able to squeeze in the initial framework and a few reactions for tech tier four. I know that you guys want to do the testing on your own, but I really need to give it a preliminary screening. Otherwise you get issues like sieges committing suicide because their attack interaction is missing a usage hint, and other less-than-fun things that the errorlog won't catch. I've learned from experience here that "completed" and "ready to release" are very different things.
That being said, if anyone feels like giving me a hand in testing, I certainly won't refuse it. Like, I need someone to give me some feedback on this (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=4637), since I'm testing so many things that I can't devote the kind of time needed to thoroughly test an entity file beyond "does it spawn or not."
Post by: Demiurge on April 06, 2012, 05:27:39 am
Additionally you could have its abilities based on the materials of the components. A bronze mechanism would make it faster than a copper mechanism and a lens made from rarer gems would increase its skills in combat.
...This would require a different creature (or at least a different caste) for every possible permutation of gems, mechanisms, metals, and so on. I'd finish that by the time DF hit 1.0, if I was lucky.
That being said, a more limited system of material and component advances is something I plan to do.
Ouch, yeah I can see that not being feasible. Still this is a great mod, I'm moving between this and masterwork right now (I use masterwork on my laptop since it runs much faster) but with all the new stuff being added I'm definitely playing LFR the most.
Do you have any plans for the new minecarts and physics that Toady is adding? Does it add possibilities for things you hadn't been able to implement before?
Post by: narhiril on April 06, 2012, 10:30:18 am
Additionally you could have its abilities based on the materials of the components. A bronze mechanism would make it faster than a copper mechanism and a lens made from rarer gems would increase its skills in combat.
...This would require a different creature (or at least a different caste) for every possible permutation of gems, mechanisms, metals, and so on. I'd finish that by the time DF hit 1.0, if I was lucky.
That being said, a more limited system of material and component advances is something I plan to do.
Ouch, yeah I can see that not being feasible. Still this is a great mod, I'm moving between this and masterwork right now (I use masterwork on my laptop since it runs much faster) but with all the new stuff being added I'm definitely playing LFR the most.
Do you have any plans for the new minecarts and physics that Toady is adding? Does it add possibilities for things you hadn't been able to implement before?
It planted a few ideas in my head, but I don't care to elaborate at the moment. It's well before I know what will and won't be possible, and I don't want to disappoint anyone by sharing an idea that turns out not to be practical.
Also, out of curiosity (open question), what kind of FPS do you guys get with this mod compared to vanilla/others? Its hard for me to get a sense for it, seeing as I develop and test LFR on a gaming laptop, which I'm quite aware is well above the norm.
Post by: Pan on April 06, 2012, 11:19:54 am
Post by: Vanaheimer on April 06, 2012, 11:32:18 am
Post by: narhiril on April 06, 2012, 11:55:46 am
Unrelated, but I'm having trouble unarchiving the pre installed version.
This always seems to be a problem whenever I update a file or two in an archive instead of re-archiving the entire thing,at least since I switched from a rar to a zip.
From now on, that's what I'll do. Try it again, I re-packaged it.
Post by: vorpal+5 on April 06, 2012, 01:08:29 pm
I think I may wish for the moon in asking you that, but who knows what a modder can do... Any possibility to convert an evil biome tile to a neutral one (with a high level religious reaction called sanctify)... So we can hope to 'reconquer' the lost lands, I have embarked in a place very hostile and knowing that I can cleanse it would be greatly rewarding.
Post by: Demiurge on April 06, 2012, 01:50:45 pm
My machine is also fairly strong, having an i7 3.4ghz CPU. I only play large regions and generate 1050 years of history in about 10-15 minutes.
Post by: Meph on April 06, 2012, 01:54:18 pm
I still start with 120-150 FPS, then go down to 30-50 within 1-2 ingame years. Netbook, 2ghz dual core.
Post by: narhiril on April 06, 2012, 02:02:30 pm
A fix for the "diamond wall" issue is available here (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=6113), in case anyone is still having that problem with the pre-installed version. The latest upload should not have this issue.
Spoiler: Did I mention that I love interactions? (click to show/hide)
Post by: wyrdness on April 06, 2012, 04:39:19 pm
Post by: Vanaheimer on April 06, 2012, 04:47:00 pm
Somehow I did not think that would happen.
Post by: Jilladilla on April 06, 2012, 06:27:44 pm
im sorry about my anti-meowkin sentiments, i only let their intermediarys live so i can "ask" for more stuff to "borrow"
Post by: Vanaheimer on April 06, 2012, 07:19:37 pm
the meowkin must have cheated... or were they REALLY killing nephillim? how do we know they're not just boasting (or delusional)...
im sorry about my anti-meowkin sentiments, i only let their intermediarys live so i can "ask" for more stuff to "borrow"
Well, if the upward of 200 statues and engravings at this point mean anything... they quite frankly massacred them. I might abandon and check legends.
Edit:
JESUS. Checked Legends, Meowkin in this world are apparently godlike. They killed every titan that was killed in world gen except 3 or 4, warred and won against the Nephillim, you name it they killed it.
Post by: Stirk on April 06, 2012, 08:27:28 pm
I have a theory. I think that the Meokins don't like us much, and realize that if they get sent to our fortress they will probably not get much and have high risk. Therefore, they only send their weakest members and slaves after us for trading, so not to risk their epic soldiers.
Post by: Jilladilla on April 06, 2012, 08:46:23 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Vanaheimer on April 06, 2012, 08:48:07 pm
Yes. The Meowkins are badass off screen. Combing it with other mods, and looking at the legends, they have killed everything to an overpowered Cell from the dragonball mod to the riftwardens of this mod. While wearing cute maid dresses and bikini tops.
I have a theory. I think that the Meokins don't like us much, and realize that if they get sent to our fortress they will probably not get much and have high risk. Therefore, they only send their weakest members and slaves after us for trading, so not to risk their epic soldiers.
... I'm going to start massacring Meowkin caravans to see how tough their sieges are.
It's time to start a war.
Post by: Putnam on April 06, 2012, 09:12:03 pm
Yes. The Meowkins are badass off screen. Combing it with other mods, and looking at the legends, they have killed everything to an overpowered Cell from the dragonball mod
Yeah, Meowkin are like that. It was one of the first things I noticed, even before I started modding. I've had 12 ages of myths and legends just because Meowkin kept slaughtering the children of some Amaroks.
Post by: Stirk on April 06, 2012, 09:26:12 pm
They are really as impressive as I thought they were. They have shown the ability to defeat a dragon easily*
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
So we can sleep at night knowing that the shedim will be no threat, with the Meokin defending us.
Post by: Pan on April 06, 2012, 10:18:51 pm
Post by: Jilladilla on April 06, 2012, 10:30:27 pm
Yes. The Meowkins are badass off screen. Combing it with other mods, and looking at the legends, they have killed everything to an overpowered Cell from the dragonball mod to the riftwardens of this mod. While wearing cute maid dresses and bikini tops.
I have a theory. I think that the Meokins don't like us much, and realize that if they get sent to our fortress they will probably not get much and have high risk. Therefore, they only send their weakest members and slaves after us for trading, so not to risk their epic soldiers.
... I'm going to start massacring Meowkin caravans to see how tough their sieges are.
It's time to start a war.
I have a few words to say:
BRING IT ON MEOWKIN! EVEN WITH YOUR SUPER SOLDIERS AND SECRET KILLING METHODS (prolly cave-in traps) I WILL NOT FALL TO YOU NO MATTER WHAT YOU THROW AT ME! AND IF YOU DO THROW ENOUGH ON ME TO MAKE ME FALL, I"M GOING TO TAKE YOU WITH ME! AND SOMEHOW MANAGE TO CONTINUE TO STAND!
(i wonder why i never just outright attempted to start a war... i mean i put the ELVES above them, sure they bring tons of cloth, if i want tons of cloth, i just turn to them, the meowkin have more cluttering their caravans, and requesting cloth just makes it overpriced)
Post by: Vanaheimer on April 06, 2012, 10:31:29 pm
The Meowkin frequently start wars with the Nephilim, I found. Must be the thing with slavery. Once I had a meowkin ambush of meowkin riding pegasus that killed the Nephilim caravan and left. Shame I decided to abandon that fort later, would have been fun to try playing that.
I choose to believe the Nephillim are just so utterly ultra conservative that they will go to war with the Meowkin over sexual depravity.
xD
Edit:
I have genned a world with the express purpose of creating war. Joy of joys, it has several necromancer towers as well.
Time for some fun.
Post by: Stirk on April 07, 2012, 12:19:08 am
Weird glitch(?) they brought with them to. They brought a giant snail, which I had assumed was coming to fight, and then proceeded to murder it themselves.
Fortunately I have it set up so the Naphal will wipe them out, putting them in a good position to surround them.
Post by: Wonderboygod on April 07, 2012, 12:22:42 am
How do I get Dwarf Therapist to work with this mod? I keep getting the message "Sorry, I cannot talk with this version of Dwarf Therapist."
Post by: vorpal+5 on April 07, 2012, 01:05:34 am
As for Ironhands graphics, the ugly diamond of the new version... I'm using a version before this one, sorry can't bear the new one.
Post by: Putnam on April 07, 2012, 02:48:34 am
Narhiril, any comment of your about my question? Is it physically possible for a modder to produce something that would change an evil biome tile into a neutral one? I keep wondering.
Yeah, that's impossible.
Post by: vorpal+5 on April 07, 2012, 08:00:28 am
What the war elephants are supposed to eat? I have pastured them over grass and they don't graze.
Post by: Pan on April 07, 2012, 08:31:06 am
Post by: Wonderboygod on April 07, 2012, 10:35:31 am
Post by: wyrdness on April 07, 2012, 11:21:45 am
Hey, sorry if this is a stupid question.
How do I get Dwarf Therapist to work with this mod? I keep getting the message "Sorry, I cannot talk with this version of Dwarf Therapist."
I believe this is a DT problem rather than an LFR issue. Hopefully following the directions from http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=66525.1680 will be able to help you out. If not there are many helpful people that read that thread that could probably point you in the right direction. :)
Post by: Wonderboygod on April 07, 2012, 05:34:33 pm
Another nooby question though: How do I fill a bucket with water for the "Gather materials for Temanat's Sacred Pool?"
I have the rock, cobalt bars, and buckets for it but it still says I need something, so I'm lead to guess it's the water.
Post by: Stirk on April 07, 2012, 05:39:10 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
What I do is just go to the ritual building and do the "Minor Ritual of substance" or whatever it is called that fills a bucket with water. Easiest way.
Post by: vorpal+5 on April 08, 2012, 03:00:01 am
Post by: Jilladilla on April 08, 2012, 04:57:49 am
Just to be sure I get it right, the training dummy can only work with civilians, right, so I need to remove the dwarf from the military (or put it in an inactive squad). What is the job the manikin needs to be operated?
use workshop profiles to force your military dwarves to use it when off duty
Post by: Pan on April 08, 2012, 06:02:04 am
Just to be sure I get it right, the training dummy can only work with civilians, right, so I need to remove the dwarf from the military (or put it in an inactive squad). What is the job the manikin needs to be operated?
All of Narhiril's training workshops require you to need the manager, so you can set specific civilian dwarves to work on the training workshops. Simply assign a manager in your noble screen so you can set the workshop profile to only accept specific dwarves. Then simply set a few jobs, deactivate all the selected military dwarf's (who is in civilian mode) other jobs and he will go train on the training workshop. (Ninja'd)
As for the bucket of water, I have an idea. I've never performed it, but to get a bucket of water you can pray at one of the prayers which can give a bucket of water(consult the manual ritual file) or you can use the pit/pond designation (select pond) option to force dwarves to get a bucket of water to fill up some place, then cancel it when they filled a bucket of water and is walking towards the pond, so they drop the bucket of water, allowing you to use it for your ritual.
Post by: Jilladilla on April 08, 2012, 06:32:16 am
Post by: Pan on April 08, 2012, 06:41:07 am
medical training dummy does not need the manager, as these labors can actually be assigned and stuff (so one less headache for you)
Yes, of course. It's just that I recently don't build these medical training dummies. I realized that high or low medical skills don't tend to matter with the result, only the speed, with an exception being surgery. But dwarves needing surgery are usually pretty much dead already. The only thing that matters seems to be the dwarf's personal empathy and how much they like to help others, which affects when they go and treat their patients.
What is the dwarven caste that has a knack for destroying things?
Post by: Jilladilla on April 08, 2012, 07:25:02 am
they don't have natural skills, but they do learn military skills 25% faster than normal dwarves (50% faster with certain skills)
Post by: Demiurge on April 08, 2012, 08:29:58 am
Post by: Jilladilla on April 08, 2012, 09:04:49 am
also where do you embark normally? i've been on some volcano embarks where i've seen plenty of the stuff (ok still not in magnetite quantities but a lot more than what i see on non volcano embarks, mithril spawns in igneous layers as small clusters, but spawns in obsidian as veins (look in obsidian)
also, i'm curious, which material is better? voidshard or hadrine... ignoring weight of course...
Post by: Demiurge on April 08, 2012, 10:08:37 am
I almost never bother embarking on top of volcanoes because generally the nearby soil almost never has coal, so I feel its wasted. Lustrum reactors take too long to get going so I'd rather just dig down to the bottom layer and set up my smith's guild city down there.
Post by: Jilladilla on April 08, 2012, 02:28:29 pm
but, we all have our preferences, I like abnormally flat volcano sites (with SOME hills, not completely flat)
you like whatever it is you like...
Post by: narhiril on April 08, 2012, 02:56:19 pm
Yeah, it was actually all my fault, I was using an incorrect version of Dwarf Therapist.
Another nooby question though: How do I fill a bucket with water for the "Gather materials for Temanat's Sacred Pool?"
I have the rock, cobalt bars, and buckets for it but it still says I need something, so I'm lead to guess it's the water.
Sacrificial altar, lesser or greater ritual of sustenance. It might take a few tries and/or have some byproducts (usually for the better, but not always). The lesser one just needs a bucket, the greater one needs a bucket and ash.
Is there any chance that Mithril can be made more common? It's supposed to be a lighter version of steel but with its extreme rarity and the fact it takes 4 ore to create one bar makes it completely impractical to use. It's actually easier to just produce Damascus steel since Vanadium is actually common compared to Mithril.
Mithril veins only occur in obsidian. Everywhere else, it's just small clusters. It's intended to make embarking on volcanoes a bit more exciting, seeing as volcanic areas tend to lack coal and flux. Mithril also holds an edge 20% sharper than steel and equivalent to damascus steel.
i suppose mithril scarcity is intended to be the main limit on the super-material, hadrine...
also where do you embark normally? i've been on some volcano embarks where i've seen plenty of the stuff (ok still not in magnetite quantities but a lot more than what i see on non volcano embarks, mithril spawns in igneous layers as small clusters, but spawns in obsidian as veins (look in obsidian)
also, i'm curious, which material is better? voidshard or hadrine... ignoring weight of course...
You're correct about it being used to limit hadrine production. Hadrine is substantially stronger than voidshard or ether. It can only be made into reactive chest plates, reactive shields, and reactive helms. Hadrine boots actually exist, but they're a hidden reward from something rather than an actual tech unlock.
The meowkin are going to see a bit of revision in the future to solidify their role within the world as traders. Certain items required for mechanical constructs are going to be expensive and resource-heavy, and the meowkin will provide a way for a fortress to obtain some of these items a different way - though, naturally, there will be a bit of a retail mark-up.
Post by: Jilladilla on April 08, 2012, 04:05:01 pm
whats to stop people from just requesting it, then stealing it?
(i think lightness might help, i think i've seen somewhere around these forums that giving good profits to elves encourages lightweight, high cost items (rope reed cloth) but stealing encourage low cost per weight items (wood and caged animals)... but with the liason... should be signifigantly valuble enough to start a war in a very short amount of time i guess? idk... you have a better sense of balance...)
Post by: Demiurge on April 08, 2012, 04:18:21 pm
Is there any chance that Mithril can be made more common? It's supposed to be a lighter version of steel but with its extreme rarity and the fact it takes 4 ore to create one bar makes it completely impractical to use. It's actually easier to just produce Damascus steel since Vanadium is actually common compared to Mithril.
Mithril veins only occur in obsidian. Everywhere else, it's just small clusters. It's intended to make embarking on volcanoes a bit more exciting, seeing as volcanic areas tend to lack coal and flux. Mithril also holds an edge 20% sharper than steel and equivalent to damascus steel.
Oh that makes perfect sense then, I'll have to embark on a vulcano next time. My current fort is drowning in steel right now and I found a massive vein of vanguard ruins. What exactly are the core's and clockwork pendants for right now? I salvaged them but seemed to just yield trade goods. Oh and how strong is a glowing mithril sword?
Post by: nukularpower on April 08, 2012, 04:23:07 pm
but, we all have our preferences, I like abnormally flat volcano sites (with SOME hills, not completely flat)
you like whatever it is you like...
I wish I could find more flat volcano sites, I never seem to get them :/
Post by: vorpal+5 on April 08, 2012, 04:36:28 pm
Post by: narhiril on April 08, 2012, 04:57:20 pm
Is there any chance that Mithril can be made more common? It's supposed to be a lighter version of steel but with its extreme rarity and the fact it takes 4 ore to create one bar makes it completely impractical to use. It's actually easier to just produce Damascus steel since Vanadium is actually common compared to Mithril.
Mithril veins only occur in obsidian. Everywhere else, it's just small clusters. It's intended to make embarking on volcanoes a bit more exciting, seeing as volcanic areas tend to lack coal and flux. Mithril also holds an edge 20% sharper than steel and equivalent to damascus steel.
Oh that makes perfect sense then, I'll have to embark on a vulcano next time. My current fort is drowning in steel right now and I found a massive vein of vanguard ruins. What exactly are the core's and clockwork pendants for right now? I salvaged them but seemed to just yield trade goods. Oh and how strong is a glowing mithril sword?
Pendants can be broken down into mechanisms and precision tools at the alchemy lab. Cores are used for creating a special type of crossbow at the alchemy lab (which is roughly equal to a mechanized bayonet crossbow). Glowing mithril long swords are quite powerful - if your military isn't using adamantine, ether, or voidshard weapons, there aren't really that many better swords that you can make.
There are a lot of creatures without graphics, why not ask if you Narhiril can borrow from others mod, some are rather well furnished!
I'm keeping a close eye on this thread (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=101137.75) to try to fill out the rest of the graphics as they become available. I'll have to see what permissions I can get, but I hope to incorporate some of them.
Post by: narhiril on April 08, 2012, 05:42:49 pm
Emberlight warriors can now safely swim, stand, see, and fight in magma without any negative consequences.
Post by: Vanaheimer on April 08, 2012, 05:57:40 pm
Post by: wyrdness on April 08, 2012, 06:15:27 pm
Post by: Stirk on April 08, 2012, 09:14:01 pm
Other than that, a magma-filled fortress would be amazing to have. It may be a little less piratical than the underwater fortress, considering half the items you use would probably burn, but if you just had a room for food and wood(For making more emberlights) you would be invincible to attack.
Post by: Jilladilla on April 08, 2012, 09:27:16 pm
This, combined with it's new and planned abilities, is a great buff for the Ember light. I am only worried about it's path finding....
Other than that, a magma-filled fortress would be amazing to have. It may be a little less piratical than the underwater fortress, considering half the items you use would probably burn, but if you just had a room for food and wood(For making more emberlights) you would be invincible to attack.
what about the HFS? isn't that magma proof?
Post by: narhiril on April 08, 2012, 10:31:36 pm
This, combined with it's new and planned abilities, is a great buff for the Ember light. I am only worried about it's path finding....
Other than that, a magma-filled fortress would be amazing to have. It may be a little less piratical than the underwater fortress, considering half the items you use would probably burn, but if you just had a room for food and wood(For making more emberlights) you would be invincible to attack.
The combat pathfinding, at the very least, seems to work properly. I spawned two emberlights in the arena and put a bunch of lava down between them, and they ignored it and attacked each other anyway, fighting right in the middle of the pool.
Also, new poll. I have a feeling I know where this one is going, but I thought I'd ask anyway.
Post by: Weaselcake on April 08, 2012, 10:42:39 pm
I can't get over ironhands detail, and I can't get over vanillas simplicity. Phoebes is that perfect middle-tileset that I can't play this without.
Please don't make me search 130+ pages to find one. :(
Post by: narhiril on April 08, 2012, 11:47:10 pm
So, Is there a modded phoebes version of this mod?
I can't get over ironhands detail, and I can't get over vanillas simplicity. Phoebes is that perfect middle-tileset that I can't play this without.
Please don't make me search 130+ pages to find one. :(
Support for Phoebus' set is something that I've been meaning to do for a long while, but I've never gotten around to it. It involves combing through raws and manually changing tile numbers... a LOT of tile numbers. Basically, every single tile in every material, tool, and building (UGH) file would need to be re-mapped. That's what's keeping it from happening right now.
Post by: Pan on April 09, 2012, 01:59:54 am
Post by: vorpal+5 on April 09, 2012, 04:23:11 am
vanadium
tungsten
bismuth bronze
I know that heavy is good for blunt weapons so I make my hammers in silver. Is a soft but heavy metal not good for a bolt? I guess so...
Post by: Demiurge on April 09, 2012, 04:35:13 am
I have noticed though that a lot of the surface races use tungsten for edged weapons, which is good, considering it sucks at it :P
Anyway I have a question. Are goblins supposed to be trap avoid? I've had invisible thieves and snatchers trigger my entrance traps and get cut to bits, causing corpses to just magically appear.
And a general question probably not related to the mod. I have a lot of corpses and other things clogging up my surface fort, is there any way to get rid of them that doesn't involve turning on collect refuse on the surface? I'd rather not have my dwarves run out like crazy every time something dies.
Edit: Might be intentional, but I noticed that vanguard artifacts are treated as cassisterite for stockpile purposes.
Post by: Jilladilla on April 09, 2012, 06:12:26 am
it does have a material value of 6, beating bronzes 5
use tungsten the same way you use silver, or save it for hadrine production (i know it's heavy as hell (20% heavier than iovium if i'm reading this correctly!), but hadrine, as narhiril stated earlier, is superior to all except adamantine... and reactive shields FAR outclass tower shields, if your worried about the weight too much: reactive shields)
note that you also need mithril and reguler steel for 1 piece of hadrine armor (as well as advanced mechanisms)
Post by: Demiurge on April 09, 2012, 06:36:12 am
I've been genning worlds for 2 hours now with 200 volcanoes to get a good lava fort going but so far I haven't managed to avoid lizardmen or bog trolls going extinct. Actually come to think of it I've NEVER genned a world where kobolds survived, their numbers are always below a thousand.
Post by: Jilladilla on April 09, 2012, 09:32:20 am
for reference:
bucklers have [BLOCKCHANCE:10]
shields have [BLOCKCHANCE:20]
tower shields have [BLOCKCHANCE:30]
reactive shields have... [BLOCKCHANCE:55]
this makes a hadrine reactive shield the best shield of the game if your willing to ignore the heavy weight
Post by: narhiril on April 09, 2012, 11:38:22 am
*******
-Added dwarven tempests.
-Added the Temple of the Orphan.
-Added wavebreaker and zephyr "cross-combo" abilities with tempests.
-Added the ability for voidwalker mistshrouds to block this new combo.
-Added jagged crystal dragons.
-Emberlight warriors can now safely swim, stand, see, and fight in magma.
-Added a new regional interaction to terrifying swamp biomes.
-Added the (tier 4 tech) mechanized defense laboratory and associated reactions.
-Added dwarven spider constructs.
-Added the shedim as a new, universally hostile race.
-Added priceless vanguard artifacts (VERY rare).
-Changed "prayer for elemental ritual materials" at the Temple of the Twins to "prayer for ritual metals," and removed the gem products.
-Added "prayer for ritual gems" to make up for this at the new Temple of the Orphan.
-Cleaned up some overlapping hotkeys at the Temple of the Twins.
-The fishing pond will now produce raw rainbow trout in addition to the "trout of Kogut" meat it already produces - yield is not much different overall (slightly better).
-The "big catch" reaction at the fishing pond is now a bit more worthwhile and has been given an easter egg.
-The meowkin will now sell "mech parts caches" that can be "unpacked" at the new mechanized defense laboratory for a random assortment of related parts.
*******
All of this loads without any errors. Now, whether or not it all works properly is another matter entirely, but it's a big step. I still have a few odds and ends to clean up before I can really put it through the paces of testing (JCDs need a graphic, priceless artifact reaction needs some tweaking, tier 4 tech needs a new guide file, etc), but we're getting closer to one of LFR's largest content updates to date.
Post by: narhiril on April 09, 2012, 02:40:43 pm
... Which means I'm going to need to use a pretty elaborate workaround to get them into position, involving a new building and an "intermediary" transformation. In order to make them friendly, I need to transform a dwarf, force it to drop a body part, allow it to revert, animate it, transform it, kill it, resurrect it, and transform it again. This actually works, believe it or not, but the problem is the inability to pasture them.
I tried a few workarounds.
Apparently, animated creatures are ridiculously weak, and collapse under any sort of physical damage... and also seem to inherit the OPPOSE_TO_LIFE tag, even if it isn't explicitly given to them. So for my first test run... I had a dwarf create a a spider which immediately went on a rampage and killed 4 dwarves before being struck down by a sabre-toothed tiger. Revise, restart.
This time, I give it a speed percentage effect so that the tiger can kill it without interference. It dies, and I give the dwarf an ability to revive it, and now it turns friendly. Problem is, it won't leave the general area around the workshop.
Next time, I try caging it, but this doesn't seem to make it register as a captured creature either.
It looks like I am going to have to create a new building called a "dwarven spider hub" and move the assembly reaction there, so if you want to station spiders somewhere, you'll need to build that little building and assemble them there, and they'll use that as their permanent base... I figure it fits into the lore pretty well - seeing as these are the first and most primitive of constructs, their pathfinding and navigation skills would be comparable to a small insect. I can even make it so that when they die, you can attempt to rebuild the little buggers. Perhaps I can make later constructs and advancements utilize a sentient being as their intelligence core, which would be far more effective in that it would allow you to train, assign, and pen/pasture them. I like that idea, so that's what I'm going with.
This is why I insist on testing these things first, though, in case you all were wondering. !!SCIENCE!! is fun, but nobody likes it when I release something and the features don't work right.
Post by: Weaselcake on April 09, 2012, 02:56:32 pm
So, Is there a modded phoebes version of this mod?
I can't get over ironhands detail, and I can't get over vanillas simplicity. Phoebes is that perfect middle-tileset that I can't play this without.
Please don't make me search 130+ pages to find one. :(
Support for Phoebus' set is something that I've been meaning to do for a long while, but I've never gotten around to it. It involves combing through raws and manually changing tile numbers... a LOT of tile numbers. Basically, every single tile in every material, tool, and building (UGH) file would need to be re-mapped. That's what's keeping it from happening right now.
You don't HAVE to redo all the new creatures as well. The already-existing sprites could get a simple graphics replacement, and that's it. :/
Post by: Undeadlord on April 09, 2012, 03:02:47 pm
Just a thought!
Post by: Weaselcake on April 09, 2012, 03:10:30 pm
Another example would be the new religious features using primarily Christianity-influenced objects. Not remotely touching on Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, Paganism, etc. even though some of those closer resemble the new religious features ('rituals' and multiple gods) than Christianity.
I guess it's more of a 'MY personal immersiiiiiooooon' thing, but still. :/
Post by: Undeadlord on April 09, 2012, 03:16:05 pm
I enjoy the mods features a lot I guess. But reading through the manuals and the OP sort of bothered me, specifically the 'lore' parts. DF-mods like this should be lore-friendly, with the history actually being written and expanded over what may happen in the world-gen. For example, like seeing the singularly-named brewed drinks (uncle urists etc.) even if the worldgen hasn't had a single urist since dwarven history began, rather than a generated name (would it even be possible to make generated names for an alcohol?)
Another example would be the new religious features using primarily Christianity-influenced objects. Not remotely touching on Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, Paganism, etc. even though some of those closer resemble the new religious features ('rituals' and multiple gods) than Christianity.
I guess it's more of a 'MY personal immersiiiiiooooon' thing, but still. :/
Really? Wow, you must need ALOT of immersion for a game to be good for you. The fact this mod has any lore what-so-ever is HIGHLY impressive to me, as alot of mods don't need it or don't bother. From what I understand about the "christianaity-themed" items its because the Neophilms are basically a type of angel, and most people think of Xtianity when they think angel.
Post by: Stirk on April 09, 2012, 03:44:40 pm
Quote
I enjoy the mods features a lot I guess. But reading through the manuals and the OP sort of bothered me, specifically the 'lore' parts. DF-mods like this should be lore-friendly, with the history actually being written and expanded over what may happen in the world-gen. For example, like seeing the singularly-named brewed drinks (uncle urists etc.) even if the worldgen hasn't had a single urist since dwarven history began, rather than a generated name (would it even be possible to make generated names for an alcohol?)
Another example would be the new religious features using primarily Christianity-influenced objects. Not remotely touching on Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, Paganism, etc. even though some of those closer resemble the new religious features ('rituals' and multiple gods) than Christianity.
I guess it's more of a 'MY personal immersiiiiiooooon' thing, but still. :/
Eh? Urist is basically the stereotypical dwarf name. It is basically a John Mcsmith of fortress. It is basically something you call a dwarf.
...What sect of Christianity has god turning their followers into magical beings breathing fire or shooting ice out of their hands in return for some random objects? And has a ton of gods, lead by a angry god of blood? Really, there is not much with Christian influences, besides maybe the Anglelike beings, but considering the angles are also Jewish and Muslim...
Post by: narhiril on April 09, 2012, 04:13:58 pm
Dwarven Spider Power Relay Station? Spiders have to stay close to powered on? :)
Just a thought!
I wish I could make that actually work, but there's no way with modding for me to be able to enforce that. Right now, it's just a spot to put them all as they get built - kind of like a trap. A nasty, swarming, sentient trap with lots of little sharp metal bits.
Post by: Jilladilla on April 09, 2012, 04:22:00 pm
Dwarven Spider Power Relay Station? Spiders have to stay close to powered on? :)
Just a thought!
I wish I could make that actually work, but there's no way with modding for me to be able to enforce that. Right now, it's just a spot to put them all as they get built - kind of like a trap. A nasty, swarming, sentient trap with lots of little sharp metal bits.
sounds like weapon traps loaded with damascus steel discs.... except for the sentient part...
this sounds like it's going to be a !!FUN!! update!
oh just curious, will the Dwarven Spider Constructs have [WEBIMMUNE]?
i can just imagine throwing prisoners into the spider pit after this goes live ;D
Post by: Stirk on April 09, 2012, 04:48:05 pm
I am picturing a hallway filled with standard traps, a turn, and then a room filled with spiders as a perfect defense against anything.
Post by: Demiurge on April 09, 2012, 04:56:00 pm
Dwarven Spider Power Relay Station? Spiders have to stay close to powered on? :)
Just a thought!
I wish I could make that actually work, but there's no way with modding for me to be able to enforce that. Right now, it's just a spot to put them all as they get built - kind of like a trap. A nasty, swarming, sentient trap with lots of little sharp metal bits.
Clearly we need the DF equivalent of redstone circuits from Minecraft. Bring on the arcane machinery!
Post by: Vanaheimer on April 09, 2012, 11:59:13 pm
And this is why I play LFR.
Oh, I found a rift warden narhiril. I was butchered.
I upped there population to 30 in the raws, I hope to hell I never run in to any more than one of those 30. Ever.
Post by: Jilladilla on April 10, 2012, 12:31:54 am
Post by: Vanaheimer on April 10, 2012, 12:35:46 am
rift wardens... very very scary entities they are... definately something you don't wanna run into...
I'll find a way to kill it, with dwarves and not cave ins. My pride demands it.
Post by: Pan on April 10, 2012, 01:43:05 am
Post by: Jilladilla on April 10, 2012, 01:47:11 am
rift wardens... very very scary entities they are... definately something you don't wanna run into...
I'll find a way to kill it, with dwarves and not cave ins. My pride demands it.
good luck with that! These things require a massively disproportionate amount of conventional killing to die!
Post by: vorpal+5 on April 10, 2012, 07:18:48 am
Post by: Demiurge on April 10, 2012, 08:11:43 am
More mundane question, sorry. Does a workshop exists that can burn remains and such like? I have zombies and they don't want to stay put. If I could burn the remains when they are down, that would be really cool.
Deep garbage pits will work, if its down a few z levels with no way out they'll stay put until you can route some lava to it.
Post by: Pan on April 10, 2012, 08:18:51 am
More mundane question, sorry. Does a workshop exists that can burn remains and such like? I have zombies and they don't want to stay put. If I could burn the remains when they are down, that would be really cool.
No specific workshop. But there are workarounds.
Second workaround only works if the corpses are all outside your fortress.
1. Get haulers to dump the corpses in a garbage zone beneath a raised bridge. Use the bridge to permanently smash the corpses into nothingness.
2. Evacuate everyone somewhere safe. Allow an emberlight to start a bushfire. The dead corpses should burn, although if it burns any normal zombies you will have burning zombies that can have potential !!FUN!!. Only advise you use this method if you can't get haulers to atom smash it, or is lazy and not afriad of burning zombies.
3. I think there's a crematorium in LFR that burns vermin corpses, but not normal creature corpses. Thought you might want to know.
More mundane question, sorry. Does a workshop exists that can burn remains and such like? I have zombies and they don't want to stay put. If I could burn the remains when they are down, that would be really cool.
Deep garbage pits will work, if its down a few z levels with no way out they'll stay put until you can route some lava to it.
Ninja'd. Although I'm not sure lava works against zombies. Heard they just kept burning and not dying.
Post by: vorpal+5 on April 10, 2012, 08:22:02 am
At worse, I knew the solution of the deep pit, but I would have preferred a workshop that can cremate everything, makes sense no?
Post by: Pan on April 10, 2012, 09:30:50 am
Post by: Vanaheimer on April 10, 2012, 02:13:15 pm
rift wardens... very very scary entities they are... definately something you don't wanna run into...
I'll find a way to kill it, with dwarves and not cave ins. My pride demands it.
good luck with that! These things require a massively disproportionate amount of conventional killing to die!
Well then I shall draft my entire fort in to the military if I have too.
If it lives, dwarves can kill it. It's just a matter of figuring out how.
Post by: Meph on April 10, 2012, 06:46:20 pm
Otherwise: Garbade dump in a 1-zlvl pit, done. Called zombie moat ;)
Post by: narhiril on April 10, 2012, 07:29:34 pm
Dwarven Spider Power Relay Station? Spiders have to stay close to powered on? :)
Just a thought!
I wish I could make that actually work, but there's no way with modding for me to be able to enforce that. Right now, it's just a spot to put them all as they get built - kind of like a trap. A nasty, swarming, sentient trap with lots of little sharp metal bits.
sounds like weapon traps loaded with damascus steel discs.... except for the sentient part...
this sounds like it's going to be a !!FUN!! update!
oh just curious, will the Dwarven Spider Constructs have [WEBIMMUNE]?
i can just imagine throwing prisoners into the spider pit after this goes live ;D
Later constructs will have WEBIMMUNE, but the first ones are very small, so they will not.
If I deconstruct the spider hub, will the spiders stay there? If the spiders get drawn off will they, after killing their prey or losing sight or otherwise, return to their stations? Or will they just stand at their new location until they a new enemy comes along?
Good questions. Destroying the workshop has no effect on existing spiders. Unfortunately, spiders lack the pathfinding ability to find their way back to their station once they've chased a target down, so you'll probably need to either replace them periodically or build "spider pits" to drop enemies into. Later constructs will require living creatures as reagents*, so those will behave like normal tame creatures and be able to accept training and pen assignments. Similar to Dragon Age's dwarves, the largest and most complex constructs will tie in with the ritual tree and require dwarven sacrifices.
Because the mechanical construct portion of LFR is going to be pretty groundbreaking and require some creative user input, some new step-by-step guides will be included to help you get familiar with the new technologies and how best to utilize them.
Things you can do with spiders...
-Spider pit traps - drop enemy in, watch carnage, laugh maniacally, collect loot, repeat.
-Spider "rooms" and corridors, where spiders that wander off are just replaced.
-So-called "trigger groups," releasing a bunch of spiders into a cavern layer or the surface to attract and deal with dangerous creatures. Effective against those forgotten beasts with insane abilities. Remember - every blow taken by a spider is a blow that a dwarf didn't have to take.
*I can't require a living creature as a reaction reagent, but I can make it so that the reaction requires you to pen an animal onto or near the workshop to successfully give you the desired result, replacing the creature in question with a construct.
Post by: Jilladilla on April 10, 2012, 09:20:25 pm
Post by: Demiurge on April 11, 2012, 09:39:07 am
Post by: narhiril on April 11, 2012, 11:50:48 am
Can't we just pasture spiders?
Unfortunately, this doesn't work. The method for creating creatures in a reaction marks them a "friendly" rather than "tame."
I am aware of the limitations this presents, and I am working on a way to get better constructs into the tech tree. Right now, though, this is the only way I can actually CREATE a new creature from a reaction. The next constructs will probably require a tame animal as a "platform" for construction. I plan to do this through granting an interaction to the reaction-performing dwarf that transforms the target "platform" creature. The bad news is that this will require the platform creature to be nearby, which will require a bit of pen/pasture micromanagement on your part, but the good news is that even ritual units should be able to perform this reaction successfully.
Things may end up working a fair bit like weapon upgrades, "researching" new constructs, creating blueprints at the scientific library, and finally assembling them. Constructs will be "advanced" as follows.... note that all of this is purely conceptual (except for the bronze spiders).
Spoiler: Level 0 (no additional research past t4 advance) (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Level 1 (one level of additional research required) (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Level 2 (two levels of additional research required) (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Level 3 (three levels of additional research required) (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Level 4 (four levels of additional research) (click to show/hide)
... It's possible that I'll go on beyond that, but that's a good overview of where I'm standing from a conceptual standpoint.
So, the first release of this arc is getting close. The spiders haven't been tested as thoroughly as I would like, but it will take me a few more days to get that done. I've been testing them with a modified copy that removes all the reagents involved, so I haven't really checked resource balancing in-game yet. I'm concerned that they will be too easy to produce, but I might prove myself wrong.
Current (not finalized) reagents for a (bronze) spider...
2 bronze bars
2 copper bars
2 capacitors
4 advanced mechanisms
1 piece of raw clear glass
2 lustrum rocks
1 bronze pipe section
Post by: Stirk on April 11, 2012, 04:18:24 pm
Post by: Meph on April 11, 2012, 04:38:22 pm
And yes, they would be a valid target for killing.
Post by: Pan on April 11, 2012, 07:28:57 pm
Post by: Demiurge on April 12, 2012, 01:21:13 am
What living creature would the tarantulas be needing? Also, could I not pasture 50 creatures in the workshop, start and finish one reaction so they all get caught in the vapor and get transformed through one reaction?
This is how it works in Masterwork at least, it's a consequence of the improvised method which actually works but can be abused like that.
What would it take to talk Toady into implementing a transformation mechanic? I realise it took 3 years for him to start work on hauling but maybe if we got him another cat...
Post by: narhiril on April 12, 2012, 02:21:13 am
What living creature would the tarantulas be needing? Also, could I not pasture 50 creatures in the workshop, start and finish one reaction so they all get caught in the vapor and get transformed through one reaction?
How I was planning to do it was to grant an interaction to the dwarf performing the reaction (via syndrome) to transform a single creature. So, basically, it gives him an interaction to transform one nearby creature which has a cooldown sufficient enough that it can only be used once before the ability to do the interaction expires. As for which creature this will require... I'll get back to you on that one.
One could attempt to put multiple dwarves on top of the workshop to get more than one to receive the benefit, but there really isn't much I can do about that. Conceivably you could abuse burrows, but there isn't much I can do to stop that. I considered giving the interaction via a special alcohol, but then you'd have very little control over.... wait. Heh, I just got an idea.
Disregard the previous paragraph, I'll just grant the syndrome via a single unit of alcohol. The interaction will not require LOS or have a max range, but can only be used once per dose. I'll probably be introducing a new tame creature to serve as a platform for this transformation, which you'll need to either breed or import more of. Yeah, I'm sticking with that story for now.
... And I just got an idea for a diabolical new creature. Hehehehehehehe... More on that tomorrow, if I get time between class, a doctors appointment, and playoff hockey tickets.
Post by: Pan on April 12, 2012, 04:41:55 am
Got a mood weapon from a strange mood weaponsmith. Iovium gladius. How useless and dull. How powerful is iovium as an edged weapon, narhiril?
Some stupid little bugs in voidshard tried to exterminate me earlier. Fools have apparently never heard of the region renown 'Rimarlolor 13z drop'. Guess you should have kept your evolutionary wings, eh???
Post by: narhiril on April 12, 2012, 11:18:19 am
Also, will the dwarf have to lug everything to the deployment zone to build the spider? Or can we assemble it all into a package and bring that one package onto the deployment workshop to quickly assemble the spider. Cuz seeing as I plan to need to constantly replace my spiders in a corridor that may be quite exposed, I would rather my civilian dwarves spend as little time out there as possible.
Got a mood weapon from a strange mood weaponsmith. Iovium gladius. How useless and dull. How powerful is iovium as an edged weapon, narhiril?
Some stupid little bugs in voidshard tried to exterminate me earlier. Fools have apparently never heard of the region renown 'Rimarlolor 13z drop'. Guess you should have kept your evolutionary wings, eh???
The spiders will be packaged for deployment, to allow for minimum down-time in dangerous zones. Note that dwarves are very vulnerable during the actual deployment process, as it relies on a brief transformation to a rather defenseless creature called a "machine constructor." It just has to work this way, logistically.
An iovium gladius is not entirely useless, but does not hold a very sharp edge. Expect to see more broken bones than severed limbs while using it.
Post by: Jilladilla on April 12, 2012, 02:47:52 pm
... And I just got an idea for a diabolical new creature. Hehehehehehehe... More on that tomorrow, if I get time between class, a doctors appointment, and playoff hockey tickets.
I hope it isn't another rift warden.....
Post by: Atlan on April 12, 2012, 04:59:45 pm
For anyone who plays MTG, I shall be known as Yawgmoth, Lord of Phyrexia.
(http://img.aegen.nl/NPH/Phyrexian%20Unlife.jpg)
For anyone who doesn't, a race called Phyrexians use a sort of "Glistening Oil" to forcefully convert living matter into machines, dark, twisted machines. They're ferocious, inhuman monstrosities due to their development and worship the phyrexian infection, forming around a religion called Phyresis.
Post by: Stirk on April 12, 2012, 05:06:24 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Ah alcohol. Truly, the cause and the solution to all of life's problems!
I am now curios what other alcohols he will make. He has some planned a few disease-blocking brews, the bioweapons, and who knows what could be next...
Post by: Meph on April 12, 2012, 07:19:20 pm
Post by: Pan on April 12, 2012, 07:29:06 pm
Post by: Stirk on April 12, 2012, 07:48:22 pm
How can we make this specific dwarf drink the brew?
Well you can lead him to alcohol but you can't make him drink. If for some reason you need a specific dwarf to do it, I suggest locking him in a room with only that drink.
Post by: Pan on April 12, 2012, 09:18:35 pm
Post by: vorpal+5 on April 13, 2012, 02:20:12 am
1. Perhaps Boron (a metalloid) can be included in the game? It is a not that rare mineral and has an interesting property... Boron carbide is super hard, almost as diamond! This could be used to make armors (it is used in ballistic plates sometime).
2. Can you remove all graze tags from war animals? Seeing your war elephants starve or your war pegasus die is not fun and involve unnecessary micromanagement.
3. Are the training dummies also raising attributes like strength and agility? That would be handy.
4. Are the accreditation slab cluttering dummies?
5. Any possibility to dispose corpses with a reaction? Or at least allow dwarves to reuse the bones of sentient so they can be processed.
Post by: Jilladilla on April 13, 2012, 04:23:45 am
Some miscellaneous remarks and questions.
1. Perhaps Boron (a metalloid) can be included in the game? It is a not that rare mineral and has an interesting property... Boron carbide is super hard, almost as diamond! This could be used to make armors (it is used in ballistic plates sometime).
2. Can you remove all graze tags from war animals? Seeing your war elephants starve or your war pegasus die is not fun and involve unnecessary micromanagement.
3. Are the training dummies also raising attributes like strength and agility? That would be handy.
4. Are the accreditation slab cluttering dummies?
5. Any possibility to dispose corpses with a reaction? Or at least allow dwarves to reuse the bones of sentient so they can be processed.
1. we have enough super metals for now (i think our enemies need a buff before we get another way to get awesome stuff), have you gotten hadrine yet? the stuff is HEAVY, but makes superior armor that is better than anything non-candy...
4. yes, use the "Document Alchemical Research" at the alchemy lab to get rid of it, as well as unlock tier II buildings
5. no, but you can alter the dwarven entity file to make them eat sentients, which would allow them to be processed them like any other corpse
Post by: Undeadlord on April 13, 2012, 09:25:32 am
Post by: Demiurge on April 13, 2012, 11:38:49 am
Post by: narhiril on April 13, 2012, 12:23:48 pm
I might be crazy, but I just patched the game to be 64 bit compatible and I'm now genning a large, 10,000 year history world. This will be potentially awesome to adventure through :D
I have never tested LFR on that kind of scale, so I'm curious to see who survives worldgen. I'd love to see a region sites and pops dump for that world.
I was a bit surprised in the poll to see the shedim performing so poorly... then I read through my development notes and noticed that it might be because I haven't officially released them yet. Oops. Oh well.
Right now, I'm working on a creature that can create illusionary copies of itself, among a handful of other abilities. That ought to be interesting. I'll post pictures as soon as I get it all working. I might even be able to weave that ability into a new secret. This version already has one new secret, but I can try to get another in there. After this is done, I'll be finishing up the ah haleel, and we're looking at a release within the next week or so.
The changelog here is massive; I can't wait to finish it. This is probably the biggest update since the tech tree was first added.
Post by: Demiurge on April 13, 2012, 12:34:29 pm
Post by: narhiril on April 13, 2012, 01:41:03 pm
Well, using the interaction system and some modified materials, I was able to get them to do something really bizarre. By abusing the SPEC_HEAT token, I was able to get them to cause localized ice storms that actually persist for some time after their death... As in, the zinger dies, explodes, and then a bunch of blasts of freezing air come from the spot where it died for about ten seconds or so. It only works because of the temperatures I'm working with, but it's pretty damn cool (pun intended). It would only take me a couple of minutes to implement a "frost dragon" and/or "frost wyvern," so I'm going to go ahead and do that now.
Also, in case it isn't obvious, I'm bringing frigid zingers back. Be careful with them, they're loose cannons.
... And I guess this means that I'll need to finish the tempimmune tissues in the same way I did for the fireimmune ones. Bugger. Oh well, it has to be done at some point.
Post by: Teneb on April 13, 2012, 04:59:04 pm
Post by: Stirk on April 13, 2012, 05:18:46 pm
Quote
narhiril, how strong are the shedim supposed to be? Because I just saw an entire siege force being destroyed by 2-3 nephilim caravan guards.
Only the grunts have been implemented, I think. So pretty week. The stronger ones are probably coming in the next huge release.
Post by: Teneb on April 13, 2012, 05:20:00 pm
Quotenarhiril, how strong are the shedim supposed to be? Because I just saw an entire siege force being destroyed by 2-3 nephilim caravan guards.
Only the grunts have been implemented, I think. So pretty week. The stronger ones are probably coming in the next huge release.
I guess that would explain it. I went "oh crap" when I saw it was a shedim siege and was about to initiate fortress lockdown when I saw the guards dispatching them.
Post by: Jilladilla on April 13, 2012, 06:30:02 pm
Quotenarhiril, how strong are the shedim supposed to be? Because I just saw an entire siege force being destroyed by 2-3 nephilim caravan guards.
Only the grunts have been implemented, I think. So pretty week. The stronger ones are probably coming in the next huge release.
i think that shedim sieges are a way for the RNG to potentially completely doom you:
siege full of grunts? no problem.
siege full of ah haleels? pain and suffering for your military...
thats how i see it
Post by: Meph on April 13, 2012, 08:45:22 pm
Post by: nekronuke on April 13, 2012, 09:33:21 pm
I was a bit surprised in the poll to see the shedim performing so poorly... then I read through my development notes and noticed that it might be because I haven't officially released them yet. Oops. Oh well.
My copy is rather... extremely unstable. adventurer mode megabeasts that melt DFs process? CHECK. random crashy-ness? hyes. my awesome save apparently corrupted (still unsure) check-ish.
However, on my awesome save, i was attacked by shedim, some currants and vibrants. Three weapons traps, and four hunters, and a mason with a crossbow fought them off. Nothing more satisfying than seeing a currant rush my hunters, and then have body parts fly EVERYWHERE as he hits a ten-obby sword trap. But... yeah. any idea why its so unstable? im using LNP.
Post by: Stirk on April 13, 2012, 11:25:44 pm
Quote
My copy is rather... extremely unstable. adventurer mode megabeasts that melt DFs process? CHECK. random crashy-ness? hyes. my awesome save apparently corrupted (still unsure) check-ish.\
However, on my awesome save, i was attacked by shedim, some currants and vibrants. Three weapons traps, and four hunters, and a mason with a crossbow fought them off. Nothing more satisfying than seeing a currant rush my hunters, and then have body parts fly EVERYWHERE as he hits a ten-obby sword trap. But... yeah. any idea why its so unstable? im using LNP.
Did you use raw only of prepackaged? I would suggest re-downloading it, and if it is still buggy use the other download. I have not been playing as much as I usually do, but personally have not received many crashes myself.
Post by: nukularpower on April 13, 2012, 11:53:20 pm
I just got finished with a really bizarre !!SCIENCE!! experiment. I was trying to rework frigid zingers. Some of you may remember these guys from very early releases - they exploded in clouds of freezing gas that didn't really do anything due to no significant exposure time.
Well, using the interaction system and some modified materials, I was able to get them to do something really bizarre. By abusing the SPEC_HEAT token, I was able to get them to cause localized ice storms that actually persist for some time after their death... As in, the zinger dies, explodes, and then a bunch of blasts of freezing air come from the spot where it died for about ten seconds or so. It only works because of the temperatures I'm working with, but it's pretty damn cool (pun intended). It would only take me a couple of minutes to implement a "frost dragon" and/or "frost wyvern," so I'm going to go ahead and do that now.
Also, in case it isn't obvious, I'm bringing frigid zingers back. Be careful with them, they're loose cannons.
... And I guess this means that I'll need to finish the tempimmune tissues in the same way I did for the fireimmune ones. Bugger. Oh well, it has to be done at some point.
Is there a graphical effect for the "frost burst" or w/e?
Post by: nekronuke on April 14, 2012, 12:18:04 am
Post by: Demiurge on April 14, 2012, 01:11:05 am
Code: [Select]
Civilized World Population
22876 Bog trolls
16644 Lizardmen
38732 Meowkin
16304 Nephilim
33137 Dwarves
16587 Humans
44607 Elves
32827 Goblins
541 Kobolds
51066 Voidwalkers
Total: 273321
Nothing died out :D There's at least 30 dragons but according to the site list no cave has less than 800 inhabitants. Which could make adventuring interesting to say the least.
Here's the full file. (https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B6rfbxPmmhYAUkVkN1VRYnplbm8)
Post by: vorpal+5 on April 14, 2012, 01:46:42 am
Post by: Atlan on April 14, 2012, 02:41:13 am
It's most likely impossible or just not feasible at the current time, but I'll give some of my thoughts anyway.
It would be neat if alchemical tasks adding slowly to the overall alchemical knowledge of certain elements or forces, say you get lucky and get 2 ethereal reactions right off the bat, your alchemists would learn more about the process of pulling ether from the void and you might have better luck with it, perhaps at enough research poured in, the ability to specifically use a reaction to search for ether.
The same could be for other tenets of dwarven research, from the production of bayonets to the magnetic dart launchers, or delicious, Delicious robotics. If they were randomly generated with the civilizations, albeit with a cap (Nobody who knew exactly how to make the things moved on, only those who may have been involved in the process or used them); Knowledge of their existence is present but not much about making them.
That gives a bit of headway into the pursuit of science, at least for one or two areas, without having to cause some sort of breakthrough to gain access to them (Like the slabs of hastily chiseled, etc) which could be specifically to unlock research areas entirely untouched.
The idea would be that alchemy experiments and the like produce results, which are filed away until a breakthrough is made, the breakthrough officially adds that section of Science to the research pool, and additional dabblings in that area slowly raise your fortress' knowledge of it. Robotics might rise up to General familiarity (They stopped trying to kill us) and you as a result, have better luck building them or possibly access to more designs.
Those are my initial thoughts anyway, I might add more to it later, if everyone doesn't completely hate it. :3
Post by: Pan on April 14, 2012, 03:16:02 am
Firstly, these guys are pretty cute. Yes, I said it. Hairballs with legs and give birth to live, miniature hairballs? Adorable!
Secondly, when I first suggested the idea of zingers I have not imagined them to be such... evolved creatures. I was thinking a rather blind, slow, primordial blob of acid and assorted elements that the dwarves lug around and chuck down chutes to explode on enemies. What we have here is instead a fast creature with a decent kicking ability, sight, hearing (I presume), that give birth to live young that start as babies, children, and then finally adults. I just don't see a live hand grenade here. I see a pretty advanced creature instead of something that's barely alive.
I know, this sounds a bit like a rant on how it's all about me and my ideas. But really, I just don't see the concept I have suggested to you working out. I'm just hoping my little argument here can move you to make some concessions on the zinger creature ai, anatomy and appearance.
Post by: Teneb on April 14, 2012, 10:32:46 am
Post by: narhiril on April 14, 2012, 01:01:37 pm
I guess I should report a bug on the shedim I just found. They bring mounts to siege, but the shedim themselves are opposed to life, while the mounts are not. As such, they are fighting with their own mounts as I type this.
As amusing as that is, I'll have to do some research to see if I can fix that, since I made sure not to give them COMMON_DOMESTIC_MOUNT.
The thing with zingers... I'm finding it hard to kill them off. Several reasons.
Firstly, these guys are pretty cute. Yes, I said it. Hairballs with legs and give birth to live, miniature hairballs? Adorable!
Secondly, when I first suggested the idea of zingers I have not imagined them to be such... evolved creatures. I was thinking a rather blind, slow, primordial blob of acid and assorted elements that the dwarves lug around and chuck down chutes to explode on enemies. What we have here is instead a fast creature with a decent kicking ability, sight, hearing (I presume), that give birth to live young that start as babies, children, and then finally adults. I just don't see a live hand grenade here. I see a pretty advanced creature instead of something that's barely alive.
I know, this sounds a bit like a rant on how it's all about me and my ideas. But really, I just don't see the concept I have suggested to you working out. I'm just hoping my little argument here can move you to make some concessions on the zinger creature ai, anatomy and appearance.
Here's, what they look like before the (massive and largely irrelevant wall of) caste definitions...
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
If I were to remove everything in yellow and bring in a simpler detail plan for some less familiar tissues, would that be more along the lines of what you were thinking? I might also give them [SPEED:2500] to allow them to move around in pens for reproduction, but not much in combat.
I was thinking... I might even be able to recycle the idea of a the adorable little walking ball of hair as the basic platform for creature transformations. Because what would be more dwarven than "aww, it's so cute, let's mount hydraulics, armor, and mithril spikes on it," right?
I feel like they're exactly where I want them from a balance standpoint (we'll see how frigid ones end up working out), and the flavor and immersion aspects are the most flexible. I can see why someone would get attached to the little buggers in their current form, so maybe it's time for some change.
Any plan to add graphics to the many creatures that don't have one? I think even wolverine don't have a graphic right now, I would not mind if they used anything, even leopard sprite...
Yes. A number of others have also been working on this, and I'm going to try to secure a few permissions to fill out some of the unfinished vanilla creatures' graphics.
Wow so this world ended up with a lot more populations than I expected.Code: [Select]Civilized World Population
22876 Bog trolls
16644 Lizardmen
38732 Meowkin
16304 Nephilim
33137 Dwarves
16587 Humans
44607 Elves
32827 Goblins
541 Kobolds
51066 Voidwalkers
Total: 273321
Nothing died out :D There's at least 30 dragons but according to the site list no cave has less than 800 inhabitants. Which could make adventuring interesting to say the least.
Here's the full file. (https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B6rfbxPmmhYAUkVkN1VRYnplbm8)
I'm impressed by my own ability to fall ass backwards into some sort of balance. I'll definitely be giving this a DL. Thanks.
I've been pondering for a time on the use of a research system a lot like the taming knowledge that dwarves collect through animal interaction.
It's most likely impossible or just not feasible at the current time, but I'll give some of my thoughts anyway.
It would be neat if alchemical tasks adding slowly to the overall alchemical knowledge of certain elements or forces, say you get lucky and get 2 ethereal reactions right off the bat, your alchemists would learn more about the process of pulling ether from the void and you might have better luck with it, perhaps at enough research poured in, the ability to specifically use a reaction to search for ether.
The same could be for other tenets of dwarven research, from the production of bayonets to the magnetic dart launchers, or delicious, Delicious robotics. If they were randomly generated with the civilizations, albeit with a cap (Nobody who knew exactly how to make the things moved on, only those who may have been involved in the process or used them); Knowledge of their existence is present but not much about making them.
That gives a bit of headway into the pursuit of science, at least for one or two areas, without having to cause some sort of breakthrough to gain access to them (Like the slabs of hastily chiseled, etc) which could be specifically to unlock research areas entirely untouched.
The idea would be that alchemy experiments and the like produce results, which are filed away until a breakthrough is made, the breakthrough officially adds that section of Science to the research pool, and additional dabblings in that area slowly raise your fortress' knowledge of it. Robotics might rise up to General familiarity (They stopped trying to kill us) and you as a result, have better luck building them or possibly access to more designs.
Those are my initial thoughts anyway, I might add more to it later, if everyone doesn't completely hate it. :3
It is unfeasible right now, but I'm making a note of this in case any of it ever becomes feasible.
Post by: Stirk on April 14, 2012, 01:05:24 pm
Quote
I guess I should report a bug on the shedim I just found. They bring mounts to siege, but the shedim themselves are opposed to life, while the mounts are not. As such, they are fighting with their own mounts as I type this.
Happened to me a while back to. Poor snail never stood a chance.
Lets just handwave it... Perhaps they just bring the mounts for a sacrifice or snack? Some kind of ritual before they attack? It would work with their "Corpse eater baby smasher" kind of lore...
Post by: narhiril on April 14, 2012, 01:20:00 pm
QuoteI guess I should report a bug on the shedim I just found. They bring mounts to siege, but the shedim themselves are opposed to life, while the mounts are not. As such, they are fighting with their own mounts as I type this.
Happened to me a while back to. Poor snail never stood a chance.
Lets just handwave it... Perhaps they just bring the mounts for a sacrifice or snack? Some kind of ritual before they attack? It would work with their "Corpse eater baby smasher" kind of lore...
I'm actually working on a way for them to "devour" corpses for buffs. This makes sense in that context.
Post by: Jilladilla on April 14, 2012, 03:36:31 pm
QuoteI guess I should report a bug on the shedim I just found. They bring mounts to siege, but the shedim themselves are opposed to life, while the mounts are not. As such, they are fighting with their own mounts as I type this.
Happened to me a while back to. Poor snail never stood a chance.
Lets just handwave it... Perhaps they just bring the mounts for a sacrifice or snack? Some kind of ritual before they attack? It would work with their "Corpse eater baby smasher" kind of lore...
I'm actually working on a way for them to "devour" corpses for buffs. This makes sense in that context.
on some embarks a shedim siege might help the fortress more than hurt it if this was implemented
Post by: Stirk on April 14, 2012, 03:47:27 pm
Quote
on some embarks a shedim siege might help the fortress more than hurt it if this was implemented
What do you mean? When is a giant corpseeater devouring your dead and getting even stronger from it ever a good thing?
Post by: Putnam on April 14, 2012, 04:03:40 pm
Quoteon some embarks a shedim siege might help the fortress more than hurt it if this was implemented
What do you mean? When is a giant corpseeater devouring your dead and getting even stronger from it ever a good thing?
One super-powerful giant corpseeater is better than 40 undead corpses.
Post by: Stirk on April 14, 2012, 04:07:14 pm
Quote
One super-powerful giant corpseeater is better than 40 undead corpses.
Would you rather have a small army of undead, or the huge army of corpseeaters? It isn't like you can kill all but one of them. If you are just going to keep one as a pet, then you could have just kept the corpses in it's cage anyway...
Post by: Jilladilla on April 14, 2012, 04:17:47 pm
Post by: Stirk on April 14, 2012, 04:21:29 pm
Quote
what would be easier to clean up on an evil embark: the remains of who-knows-how-many-sieges and wilddeath or the remains of one shedim siege?
Considering how powerful the Shedim are planned to be, the first. I am going to assume that you are probably not going to make it past to many of the most powerful ones without cheating.
Post by: Teneb on April 14, 2012, 05:01:39 pm
Post by: Jilladilla on April 14, 2012, 05:57:47 pm
Quotewhat would be easier to clean up on an evil embark: the remains of who-knows-how-many-sieges and wilddeath or the remains of one shedim siege?
Considering how powerful the Shedim are planned to be, the first. I am going to assume that you are probably not going to make it past to many of the most powerful ones without cheating.
define cheating
raw editing obviously falls here, and i consider cave ins to be cheating too, what about magma? clever dwarven devices? GCS? GDS? carpet zinger bombing?
Post by: Stirk on April 14, 2012, 06:01:20 pm
Quote
define cheating
raw editing obviously falls here, and i consider cave ins to be cheating too, what about magma? clever dwarven devices? GCS? GDS? carpet zinger bombing?
*Shrugs*. You would need something like a danger room to defeat them in any good scale, if they are as strong as I am hoping. Magma is a legitimate way. I basically meant you are not going to beat them using conventional methods. Atom smashers, Emberlight fires, something like that would be needed to beat a number of them. And if you are using those, then why do you have an undead problem?
Post by: Jilladilla on April 14, 2012, 07:10:56 pm
wait, i just thought of a semi-conventional(i think it is?) way that would probably beat a lot of them:
releasing a trapped rift warden on them!
Post by: Putnam on April 14, 2012, 07:35:43 pm
Also, why [CAN_LEARN] & [CAN_SPEAK]? Does it have something to do with interactions?
Also, why such a huge MAXAGE? Nobody's ever going to run a game that long, so why have the MAXAGE at all?
You have two SCRATCH attacks in the rift warden. Couldn't you have the latter one be called SLASH or such, considering that anything goes in that spot?
Damn, I'm feeling comby today >_>
Post by: Pan on April 14, 2012, 08:14:07 pm
I sort like to think, for flavor, that rift wardens were exiled by the gods for releasing the voidwalkers from the void into this world. And the shedim and voidwalkers are related to the collapse of the vanguard civilization. Perhaps the voidwalkers were released by the rift wardens and destroyed the vanguard civilization, who were holding back the shedim.
Post by: Jilladilla on April 14, 2012, 08:24:03 pm
that would explain why the vanguards aren't alive anymore, why the shedim were gone, why the voidwalkers know that "left unchecked, the shedim will eventually overwhelm even the most coordinated and advanced defenses" (copied + pasted straight from the lore)
Post by: Pan on April 14, 2012, 08:50:08 pm
i like to think of it that the voidwalkers and vanguard were close competitors, then the vanguard and shedim fought and severly weakened each other, and then the voidwalkers just cleaned up everything...
that would explain why the vanguards aren't alive anymore, why the shedim were gone, why the voidwalkers know that "left unchecked, the shedim will eventually overwhelm even the most coordinated and advanced defenses" (copied + pasted straight from the lore)
Agreed. Parasitic race wiping out advanced, former civilization seems to be the idea here.
Post by: Putnam on April 14, 2012, 09:02:57 pm
Perhaps the maxage and speaking and learning is just to shape what creature the rift warden is?
I sort like to think, for flavor, that rift wardens were exiled by the gods for releasing the voidwalkers from the void into this world. And the shedim and voidwalkers are related to the collapse of the vanguard civilization. Perhaps the voidwalkers were released by the rift wardens and destroyed the vanguard civilization, who were holding back the shedim.
No, I mean CAN_LEARN & CAN_SPEAK as opposed to INTELLIGENT, which is the same thing as both.
Post by: narhiril on April 15, 2012, 09:05:48 am
Why do the rift wardens have [CRAZED] & [OPPOSED_TO_LIFE]? The former makes them attack everything, while the latter makes them attack everything except other [OPPOSED_TO_LIFE] creatures.
Also, why [CAN_LEARN] & [CAN_SPEAK]? Does it have something to do with interactions?
Also, why such a huge MAXAGE? Nobody's ever going to run a game that long, so why have the MAXAGE at all?
You have two SCRATCH attacks in the rift warden. Couldn't you have the latter one be called SLASH or such, considering that anything goes in that spot?
Damn, I'm feeling comby today >_>
The reason for both is to add another layer of hostile behavior if the CRAZED tag or OPPOSED_TO_LIFE tag are removed. This isn't relevant now, but may be in the future.
Huge values for MAXAGE make it so that creatures will sometimes have a HUGE number as their age. So, you might run into a rift warden that is hundreds of thousands of years old. It's a flavor thing.
Perhaps the maxage and speaking and learning is just to shape what creature the rift warden is?
I sort like to think, for flavor, that rift wardens were exiled by the gods for releasing the voidwalkers from the void into this world. And the shedim and voidwalkers are related to the collapse of the vanguard civilization. Perhaps the voidwalkers were released by the rift wardens and destroyed the vanguard civilization, who were holding back the shedim.
No, I mean CAN_LEARN & CAN_SPEAK as opposed to INTELLIGENT, which is the same thing as both.
Rift warden lore will get fleshed out a little more in the coming updates. They actually don't have much to do with the voidwalkers, vanguard, or shedim, though this was a nice bit of speculation. If you comb through the raws very thoroughly, you might find a hint about the rift wardens (but I wouldn't bother, since it's not in the file you'd expect it to be in). You're correct about the voidwalkers greatly contributing to the downfall of the vanguard, but that's all I'm willing to reveal at this point.
Post by: Pan on April 15, 2012, 09:53:31 am
It is late summer, and the human caravan arrives in the south. However, in a disastrous turn of fate, a bog troll theif spawned right next to it, and slashed the leading merchant and his head off, causing their swift departure. I forbid the items there till I can dig a safe, underground passage to the loot site.
I wait a couple seconds, and a western Nephilim caravan appears, making a beeline for my fortress. However, barely two seconds past when the backdoor entrance came the screams of a marksdwarf - voidwalker! They had ambushed him as he was taking a stroll through the woods (off to send off a message raven to his elven leaders, the sympathizer). He is quickly dealt with, for I have not equipped him with bolts. I ordered the backdoor bridge to be pulled. Here's the brilliant stroke of luck. The delay allowed half the voidwalker foot to step upon the bridge, which immediately raised and atom smashed them. This was key to the resulting battle.
With the back entrance no longer an option, the ambush force leader, a cavalry destroyer mounted on a giant lion circles along my western side of the fortress to get at my south west causeway. This means they pass through the western bunker loaded with 15 novice marksdwarves. I see their numbers, 7+ on foot 1 on lion. I decide it's still risky, and decide to pull the causeway bridge. The bulk of the forces shrug off the blows of the unskilled marksdwarf battalions, who only managed to stop the cavalry soldier by shooting down his lion, and the large force of voidwalkers are nearly past the bridge when it closes, throwing 3 off the causeway. I decide to let the marksdwarves continue shooting them while the sat there unsure what to do. However, I quickly notice the Nephilim caravan, oblivious, was heading towards the voidwalker soldiers. I decide to make a sally with my armored speardwarf squad, so as to prevent harm to the lovely steel trading angels. I lower the bridge and crush the majority of the remaining voidwalkers foot. The soldiers rush forward.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
So ends the first voidwalker encounter. While it felt great, and sort of like a mid-movie victory where after the battle, theres party and trading, you can't help but worry for the big battle later on. I mean, I barely stood a chance with an ambush squad. What if a full on elimination force greets me in a year? Here's hoping I can get the soldier's skill and equipment up.
As I fiddle right now with the bridges and burrows and clean up, I hear a disturbance, and it appears a voidwalker who was on the backdoor bridge, got flung up to the roof, and made the mistake of attacking the western bunker. He is currently being pin cushioned.
Post by: narhiril on April 15, 2012, 12:51:17 pm
Right now, voidwalkers are kind of a roll of the dice when you encounter them. The lashers and "callers" are fairly weak, due to the nerfed whips and a spear concept that never quite worked out the way I wanted it to, so they'll be seeing a bit of revision in this next update. The long-planned "voidwalker creature update" gives them more of the humanoid-insect hybrid feeling that I was going for, as well as overhauling their spear units. The "void hurling staff" isn't going away, but it will be getting an edge attack, and the voidwalkers will be getting access to two additional types of spear (that are far more deadly) to put them on par with reavers and swordsmen, which are an order of magnitude more dangerous right now. Obliterators and arbiters, their mace and hammer units, will likely not be changing much. Likewise, lashers will probably remain largely as-is.
"Callers" are being re-name "impalers" to better suit their new function... and also because "caller" is another caste I planned to give them later on down the road, and I'm going for preempting any confusion that might cause. Also in preparation for any new castes, the "patriarch" and "matron" distinctions will be dropped in this update. From now on, you'll just see things like "voidwalker reaver" or "voidwalker mistshroud impaler."
Likewise, I have more tricks up my sleeve for them and for the other hostile races if things prove to be a little too easy for the new dwarven tech and ritual units.
Post by: Vanaheimer on April 15, 2012, 02:31:47 pm
Post by: narhiril on April 15, 2012, 02:36:56 pm
Tougher Voidwalkers would be nice, whenever they show up my relatively small military tends to waltz through 'em.
Oh, you'll also see shedim corpse devouring in this update. Every time they kill something, they destroy the corpse and spread NOEXERT and NOSTUN throughout their ranks.
Post by: Vanaheimer on April 15, 2012, 02:49:49 pm
Post by: nekronuke on April 15, 2012, 08:47:42 pm
Heres what you need. TROGS! trogs are underdeveloped humanoids, so are easily used for biological experimentation! you could synthesize muscle-mass tonics, growth serums, mutagens of multiple types, and test them on trogs. Make supersoldiers, berserk beasts that kill everything they see, a new type of farm-able animal that bloats itself with meat! creatures that can be milked for serums and extracts... ENDLESS !!SCIENCE!!
Post by: Pan on April 15, 2012, 08:54:55 pm
Vanahelmer, how the heck do you train your military? Danger room? Cuz otherwise the voidwalkers shreds through soldiers not armored in candy like paper, and their archers punch through even addy.
Post by: nekronuke on April 15, 2012, 09:03:14 pm
Good idea. Shame the dwarf will get scared of the hostile trog, and you will have to tame it first. Sadly, trogs cannot be tamed. But Narhiril understands the interactions more than I do, so maybe there could be a compromise for your concept? I've always thought the tech tree was purely mechanical and ethical. We're dwarves, dammit!
Vanahelmer, how the heck do you train your military? Danger room? Cuz otherwise the voidwalkers shreds through soldiers not armored in candy like paper, and their archers punch through even addy.
keep em in cages!
Post by: Stirk on April 15, 2012, 09:30:14 pm
I was personally wondering for the far future of the robotics. We have the technology for AI spiders, what else can we accomplish? Mech armor? Androids? Gods of metal (Duex Ex Machina, if you prefer). The !!SCIENCE!! tree has a lot of potential and I can't wait to see what it accomplishes.
It will also be interesting to see it's parallels to the ritual tree. An archer who throws ice in the ritual tree? Magnetic guns in the science tree. Fire breathing dwarves in the ritual tree? Spider pits in the science tree. Bringing dead paragons back to life? Making elixirs that defend dwarfs from dying in the first place. Hands of Armork with steel skin and amazing powers? Can't wait to see what the parallel is in the !!SCIENCE!! tree...
Post by: Pan on April 15, 2012, 09:33:11 pm
Post by: Jilladilla on April 15, 2012, 11:46:34 pm
Tougher Voidwalkers would be nice, whenever they show up my relatively small military tends to waltz through 'em.
Vanahelmer, how the heck do you train your military? Danger room? Cuz otherwise the voidwalkers shreds through soldiers not armored in candy like paper, and their archers punch through even addy.
i'm assuming a combination of danger room and candy/hadrine armor
Post by: Pan on April 16, 2012, 01:15:04 am
The voidwalker's death screams are the worse. The AoE effect is deadly as it affects all the 50 soldiers dogpiling the voidwalker. Imagine if there are other voidwalkers nearby ready to take on the stunned dwarves...
They are strong and immune to pain. Even two standard voidwalker infantry soldiers is enough to keep almost twice the medium trained soldiers with steel gear busy and at risk, as they are immune to pain and therefore can strike even when they lost two different limbs. Their equipment allows even the most half hearted stike to cripple a nearby soldier.
Their equipment is better, anything short of very well made voidshard equipment, addy and hadrine will fall short. Addy and hadrine is not always a luxury, while voidshard is only mediocre, but renewable.
This is usually if you are careless: void projectors. A hailstorm of their void projectors cut down my infantry in the open field or a distracted army in melee in a corridor... They avoid traps and destroy buildings.
They ambush. So they don't appear till they have already snuck in somewhere, and killed someone.
Another, not a big problem, but a big pet peeve, is their wings. Those useless things will be something else the dwarves can cut off, to no effect. It's something that distracts the dwarves from scoring a lucky head or weapon hand shot. Also, these useless bodyparts clog up the place.
To combat that I suggest:
Pyro zingers. Set the map aflame and smoke an ambush, or an extermination force out. Won't work in mountains, deserts and glaciers.
Checkerboard corridor checkpoints. Place a checkerboard of walls diagonally in a corridor, so their void projectors don't see you until the last second when you stab into them with point stuff.
Diversion animals. Zingers chained in an open field works well. Heck, might not even need chains in future, as Narhiril plans to make them blind. Even if they aren't killed by melee and cause acid or whatever, and are instead shot by void projectors, they are still useful diversions. As a bonus, put a pyro zinger so it sets the map on fire.
Release a cage of sabre tooth tiger, ankylosaurus, dog and megalania horde in front of them in a corridor, then charge your military into them is a good one time use thing, since most animals aren't going to survive.
Shooting them with marksdwarves work. Then their elite ones snipe your marksdwarves through the fortifications and you rage quit and flip the table.
To combat dizzyness, I think a religious unit can buff everyone to stop being dizzy.
Of course, there's also danger rooms for military.
And lots of upright voidshard spear traps connected to a lever. Make them dodge these down a pit, or till they are over exerted. Careful not to let the spears train them into weapon lords! Make sure you use material that can penetrate voidshard, and stop the thing via lever if you see some voidwalkers dodging all of them and becoming stronger.
Post by: Jilladilla on April 16, 2012, 05:27:16 am
Post by: narhiril on April 16, 2012, 10:40:35 am
wouldn't removeing [EXTRAVISION] from them work to make them blind?
Yes, it would. Zingers are getting this change, among others, in the next update. You'll see a vastly simplified anatomy coming up shortly.
Post by: nekronuke on April 16, 2012, 10:56:52 am
Hmm... more mechanical weapons. Autoswords, drill, corksaw... maybe a beam cannon that uses ethereal spheres as ammo?
Post by: Pan on April 16, 2012, 11:04:58 am
Post by: Monk321654 on April 16, 2012, 11:16:34 am
This mod looks good so far, I'll have to give it a go.
Post by: nekronuke on April 16, 2012, 11:29:25 am
Post by: narhiril on April 16, 2012, 12:27:39 pm
It took me hours of writing raws and testing them over and over again (with only minor tweaks every time), but I think I finally have a creature that can summon illusionary copies of itself. The illusions don't really do any damage in combat, but they make targeting a lot more complicated - which was the whole idea. They are supposed to have poison and projectile abilities, as well, but I'm so burned out on them right now that these will probably not get done until tomorrow. I'll post some pictures once the graphics get done - right now, there's nothing terribly exciting to see outside of the combat log.
Post by: Atlan on April 16, 2012, 01:41:43 pm
Post by: Vanaheimer on April 16, 2012, 01:55:43 pm
Tougher Voidwalkers would be nice, whenever they show up my relatively small military tends to waltz through 'em.Vanahelmer, how the heck do you train your military? Danger room? Cuz otherwise the voidwalkers shreds through soldiers not armored in candy like paper, and their archers punch through even addy.
i'm assuming a combination of danger room and candy/hadrine armor
Danger room, and tactics. As soon as I get a basic military going, I start to terraform the area around my fort entrance in such a way as to allow my entire military to surround one or two enemies at a time. It's not perfect, and it *can* backfire, but it usually works pretty well.
As far as armour goes, candy if I have it and steel if I don't.
Post by: Pan on April 16, 2012, 07:25:26 pm
... I spent some of today doing some optimization stuff that had to be done. I got around to writing a new secret, and the new zinger anatomy is done, along with a new graphic to reflect it. Most of the rest of today is going to be dedicated to updating the manual to include the new creatures. Ah haleels still aren't finished, but I'll get around to that after I finish the graphics for giant cannon beetles (which will be war-trainable, by the way, thought a bit difficult to get a hold of) and another new creature, which I'm really excited about.
It took me hours of writing raws and testing them over and over again (with only minor tweaks every time), but I think I finally have a creature that can summon illusionary copies of itself. The illusions don't really do any damage in combat, but they make targeting a lot more complicated - which was the whole idea. They are supposed to have poison and projectile abilities, as well, but I'm so burned out on them right now that these will probably not get done until tomorrow. I'll post some pictures once the graphics get done - right now, there's nothing terribly exciting to see outside of the combat log.
Illusions of itself... That's something I do not want to fight. But then again, it's unlikely to be a friendly animal that will be war trained and paired up with a dwarf.
Will cannon beetles shoot through fortifications? Also, are they tech tree units? Like, you buy the giant beetles and strap a cannon on them?
Is there anyway to make emberlights shoot through fortifications? I don't want to expose them to voidwalker fire on a firing roof with no fortifications. Will upright bars work? I plan to create a tall tower that houses most of the emberlights, and allows them to light the world on fire whenever they spot an enemy nearby.
Post by: Pan on April 17, 2012, 04:14:23 am
Post by: Jilladilla on April 17, 2012, 05:15:32 am
The emberlight reaction isn't quite working, and I have no idea why. I set a hauler to perform the ritual three times. First and third time to no effect, and second time I got a crystal targe. Has anyone else encountered this problem?
the boiling stone method of transforming your dwarves is not perfect, and you get a crystal glass targe from that reaction 30% of the time
Post by: Pan on April 17, 2012, 07:01:44 am
Wow, he just one shot fireballed a lizardman thief. Made the thief double over in pain with a spell, then sniped it with a fireball. The lizardman ran around on fire and died.
Can there be also a prayer for metalsmiths and blacksmiths for the temple? I would like to use all this gold here and create some good statues and such quickly without needing to create a thousand crap first to train them up. Besides, since there already is armor and weapon, why not these two?
Post by: Carn on April 17, 2012, 12:57:22 pm
Post by: narhiril on April 17, 2012, 01:41:06 pm
Haven't played in forever, glad to see my favorite mod is still going strong! I saw LFR was praised in the SA DF thread nar, congrats! Looks like there's another update coming out soon, guess I'll wait for that before diving back in to see how many new ways I can get my fort destroyed. I'm excited already!
I'd love a link to that for the purpose of stroking my own ego... :)
I did manage to find one reference to the mod in there... Someone had this to say.
"Reading through the raws of the mod out of curiosity, it seems like he ran into the same problems I did making WeepAngel's mods. His crossbows gain a bayonet, yeah, but the slashing attacks are the second and third, meaning they might be used ~10% of the time. Also, spring loaded and mechanized change absolutely nothing, as you can't modify reload or firing speed yet, and the shoot force and maximum velocity don't change across the three levels."
...I would just like to assure the community at large that this is blatantly wrong. Edge attacks take a weighted selection priority over blunt attacks in combat calculations, order of attacks in the raws is irrelevant, and shoot force/maxvel actually DO increase for the bayonet crossbow once you research the "mechanized" upgrade. Also, I am a "she."
I acknowledge that this response might seem a bit bitchy, but I really did put a lot of time into that feature, and I feel like I'd like to lose credibility over something I legitimately screwed up rather than something that actually works. I would hop on SA myself to clear that up, but I'm saving every $9.95 I get for a PS3 and Tales of Graces F.
Just got an emberlight after 4 tries. He'll be looked after well, seeing the resources went into...
Wow, he just one shot fireballed a lizardman thief. Made the thief double over in pain with a spell, then sniped it with a fireball. The lizardman ran around on fire and died.
Can there be also a prayer for metalsmiths and blacksmiths for the temple? I would like to use all this gold here and create some good statues and such quickly without needing to create a thousand crap first to train them up. Besides, since there already is armor and weapon, why not these two?
Yeah, I can do that. Expect it in the next update.
... I spent some of today doing some optimization stuff that had to be done. I got around to writing a new secret, and the new zinger anatomy is done, along with a new graphic to reflect it. Most of the rest of today is going to be dedicated to updating the manual to include the new creatures. Ah haleels still aren't finished, but I'll get around to that after I finish the graphics for giant cannon beetles (which will be war-trainable, by the way, thought a bit difficult to get a hold of) and another new creature, which I'm really excited about.
It took me hours of writing raws and testing them over and over again (with only minor tweaks every time), but I think I finally have a creature that can summon illusionary copies of itself. The illusions don't really do any damage in combat, but they make targeting a lot more complicated - which was the whole idea. They are supposed to have poison and projectile abilities, as well, but I'm so burned out on them right now that these will probably not get done until tomorrow. I'll post some pictures once the graphics get done - right now, there's nothing terribly exciting to see outside of the combat log.
Illusions of itself... That's something I do not want to fight. But then again, it's unlikely to be a friendly animal that will be war trained and paired up with a dwarf.
Will cannon beetles shoot through fortifications? Also, are they tech tree units? Like, you buy the giant beetles and strap a cannon on them?
Is there anyway to make emberlights shoot through fortifications? I don't want to expose them to voidwalker fire on a firing roof with no fortifications. Will upright bars work? I plan to create a tall tower that houses most of the emberlights, and allows them to light the world on fire whenever they spot an enemy nearby.
Cannon beetles are wild mountain creatures with their "cannons" built in. They will fire through fortifications, though I'm not sure if emberlights will (fireballs and material globs seem to behave a bit differently).
Any timeframe for this delicious new release?
I'm shooting for Friday. Maybe I'll miss by a day or two, but probably around then.
Post by: Pan on April 17, 2012, 05:44:39 pm
Also, the 'reverse engineered bioelectric capitators' scared away a potential. Oh well, no pleasing everyone I guess.
I just tried emberlight science. They don't shoot through bars, and they don't shoot through fortifications. Looks like a firing platform with an raisable bridge shield is the thing to do then.
Post by: narhiril on April 17, 2012, 05:51:33 pm
Checked the SA forum. It reminds me of a problem again - spec ops pigeons are way too common. They show up in the merchant listings. A little easter egg in the wilds is ok, but this is just retarded as it takes the immersion out of the game.
Also, the 'reverse engineered bioelectric capitators' scared away a potential. Oh well, no pleasing everyone I guess.
I just tried emberlight science. They don't shoot through bars, and they don't shoot through fortifications. Looks like a firing platform with an raisable bridge shield is the thing to do then.
Of all of the easter eggs I put in, the game decides to make THAT one show up in caravans. I'll do some combing through to see if I can't fix that.
I'm finishing up the graphic for one last creature, and then I should be able to give it a final spin before the release, which looks like it will probably be on target, barring any unforeseen problems.
Also, ah haleels work now... be afraid.
Post by: Pan on April 17, 2012, 06:16:30 pm
Post by: Meph on April 17, 2012, 06:59:44 pm
I do have ammo that melts on body temperature, an old trick to use syndromes with those. In Fortress mode they get packed into quivers and are fine, in Arena however they melt in the hands of the dwarf and the user itself gets affected with the syndrome. I dont know if this is because of the higher temperature of the Arena, or the bodytemp of the wearer though.
If these items melt as soon as someone wears them one could make items that transmit syndromes, weapons and armor... make a shield, call it "orb of dragonfire", adds dragonfire to the soldier picking it up for a set amount of time. One use only, since the orb melts, and the amount of tags is limited of course, so some things would have to be done with transformation, but it would allow for all kinds of items.
Post by: Pan on April 17, 2012, 07:26:15 pm
Since these cannon beetles are in the mountainside, I suspect the dwarves may not have already tamed it before my fortress.
Post by: narhiril on April 17, 2012, 07:36:36 pm
Just a very random thing, but I thought you might want to hear it.
I do have ammo that melts on body temperature, an old trick to use syndromes with those. In Fortress mode they get packed into quivers and are fine, in Arena however they melt in the hands of the dwarf and the user itself gets affected with the syndrome. I dont know if this is because of the higher temperature of the Arena, or the bodytemp of the wearer though.
If these items melt as soon as someone wears them one could make items that transmit syndromes, weapons and armor... make a shield, call it "orb of dragonfire", adds dragonfire to the soldier picking it up for a set amount of time. One use only, since the orb melts, and the amount of tags is limited of course, so some things would have to be done with transformation, but it would allow for all kinds of items.
Hmm... I am worried about its performance in more extreme biomes, but I'll definitely play around with it.
And now, as promised, screenshots of my latest project...
Spoiler: Creature (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Description (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Casting (invulnerable) (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Mid-cast (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Spawned illusions (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Illusion description (click to show/hide)
The blood was just a side effect in testing - it has since been removed.
Post by: Pan on April 17, 2012, 07:42:54 pm
Post by: Meph on April 17, 2012, 07:43:22 pm
Apart from that, the new illusions are hostile, not friendly ? Did you find a workaround for that, maybe pet/civ members ? I will do some science combining the limb-dropping with my slaves. Drop limb, transform to broodlord and broodmother (friendly), which give birth to children that transform into dwarves. In theory that should work. Can make a "thrall summoning circle" or a breeding pit then. I could also take out concubines again, since some people might object to legitimate sex workers, might frighten the children.
Or mine-deploy workshops. 1x1 workshop, makes the dwarf spawn 5 landmines around him, stationary.
Post by: narhiril on April 17, 2012, 07:53:53 pm
Will shedim have caste graphics?
Yes. :D
Looks good. What would you say about stationary version that spits out actual enemies every now and then ? D_E posted that idea once for megabeasts, but these are so rare... would be more fun with a race of invaders, or a pet race brought along by invaders. :)
Apart from that, the new illusions are hostile, not friendly ? Did you find a workaround for that, maybe pet/civ members ? I will do some science combining the limb-dropping with my slaves. Drop limb, transform to broodlord and broodmother (friendly), which give birth to children that transform into dwarves. In theory that should work. Can make a "thrall summoning circle" or a breeding pit then. I could also take out concubines again, since some people might object to legitimate sex workers, might frighten the children.
Or mine-deploy workshops. 1x1 workshop, makes the dwarf spawn 5 landmines around him, stationary.
The illusions are just animated parts with a transformation syndrome, so they behave like any other animated creature - they share the allegiance of their summoner, but collapse when they take enough damage. The "friendly" issue only comes up if you go one step further and resurrect and transform the creature again after it collapses. I had to do this to prevent my mechanical spiders from collapsing randomly in combat, but it had the unfortunate effect of marking them as "friendly."
But yes, as long as you don't mind them inheriting the wonky undead die-if-you-sneeze-at-them behavior, a summoning circle is very possible.
Post by: Pan on April 17, 2012, 08:14:41 pm
Also, how would silk farms (a tech advancement mentioned earlier on) work?
Post by: Putnam on April 17, 2012, 08:19:09 pm
Checked the SA forum. It reminds me of a problem again - spec ops pigeons are way too common. They show up in the merchant listings. A little easter egg in the wilds is ok, but this is just retarded as it takes the immersion out of the game.
Also, the 'reverse engineered bioelectric capitators' scared away a potential. Oh well, no pleasing everyone I guess.
I just tried emberlight science. They don't shoot through bars, and they don't shoot through fortifications. Looks like a firing platform with an raisable bridge shield is the thing to do then.
Of all of the easter eggs I put in, the game decides to make THAT one show up in caravans. I'll do some combing through to see if I can't fix that.
Make any PET tokens on the caste-level only so as to exclude special-ops pigeons.
If you want to make them tameable, at least make them PET_EXOTIC.
Post by: Meph on April 17, 2012, 09:44:14 pm
Post by: Pan on April 18, 2012, 08:59:11 am
Post by: Carn on April 18, 2012, 09:42:00 am
Post by: Pan on April 18, 2012, 09:51:26 am
I notice that the Twins reactions for Zephyrs always come true. The emberlight one does not always, as they don't always get caught in the cloud. I have tried 6 rituals, and gotten 3 serrated targes, but only 1 emberlight. Perhaps the layout of the temples is causing the problem? The twims temple is more open, while the emberlight one isn't.
My, serrated targes are good. An axedwarf (my champion, actually) got one shot by a bog troll thief on his weapon arm. He drops his voidshard axe as a result. The thief stabs him in the torso, but it is deflected. He uses this oppurtunity to launch a series of attacks with his targe, and kills the bog troll in a couple of attacks, severly damaging it in different areas before a strike to the head finishes it. Not bad.
Post by: narhiril on April 18, 2012, 11:23:53 am
My fortress has no vanguard ruins. Where do they appear?
[ENVIRONMENT:ALLUVIAL:CLUSTER_SMALL:120]
[ENVIRONMENT_SPEC:GABBRO:CLUSTER:50]
[ENVIRONMENT_SPEC:DOLOMITE:CLUSTER:50]
[ENVIRONMENT_SPEC:ANDESITE:CLUSTER:50]
[ENVIRONMENT_SPEC:GRANITE:VEIN:30]
[ENVIRONMENT_SPEC:GRANITE:CLUSTER:60]
So the illusions are just as strong as the limb ? Cant you spawn an entire new body that drops of and is ready to be reanimated, with seperate bodyparts on itself ? x
Hm... I'll have to play with this. For the illusions, weak is fine, but it might be useful for something in the future.
Ice wolf are vanilla. Why the long break from DF, by the way? :D
I notice that the Twins reactions for Zephyrs always come true. The emberlight one does not always, as they don't always get caught in the cloud. I have tried 6 rituals, and gotten 3 serrated targes, but only 1 emberlight. Perhaps the layout of the temples is causing the problem? The twims temple is more open, while the emberlight one isn't.
My, serrated targes are good. An axedwarf (my champion, actually) got one shot by a bog troll thief on his weapon arm. He drops his voidshard axe as a result. The thief stabs him in the torso, but it is deflected. He uses this oppurtunity to launch a series of attacks with his targe, and kills the bog troll in a couple of attacks, severly damaging it in different areas before a strike to the head finishes it. Not bad.
It doesn't always come true. I could be an ass and tell you that Lemox gives her favor to your fortress more so than Zalkor, but the truth is there just isn't a more reliable way for the transformation to occur. The only thing that would be 100% is a food product, but you'd likely have very little control over who eats it. I have, myself, played around a bit with block tiles to see if they affect the chances, but I've never found anything conclusive.
The "risk" associated with tier three ritual units is that you'll lose all of the input reagents. Tier four will shake that up a bit - you will always get a transformation, but you won't ever be sure what it will be. This is going to be done similar to the way that wavebreakers used to work.
The good news is that I'm damn near finished with tier three, with only two more units to go. Those won't be making their way into this update, though.
Today is going to be the first real test fortress for this version. I'm mostly checking the new zinger anatomy, how spiders will behave in sieges, and whether or not shedim graphics are working properly. If I can get those nailed down, I think I'm just about ready to open it up to you guys. :)
Post by: nekronuke on April 18, 2012, 02:06:03 pm
Post by: Carn on April 18, 2012, 03:10:57 pm
Ice wolf are vanilla. Why the long break from DF, by the way? :D
I tend to get really excited and involved in something I enjoy, and I enjoy seeing projects develop and helping with donations/testing/etc. Since anyone can play a game faster than it is created, I move around from game to game every so often. That way when I come back, there are all sorts of new surprises! LFR is pretty amazing in this regard. I hadn't played DF since before the big magic/curses/necromancy bit either, so I was pretty surprised to see it raining frozen blood in an evil glacier.
Post by: narhiril on April 18, 2012, 04:04:48 pm
Spoiler: EPIC CHANGELOG v0.18a (click to show/hide)
On an unrelated note, if anyone has a screenshot of a shedim siege, I would greatly appreciate having a look at that. It would save me a fair amount of time. Really, it would probably shave a full day off of the testing.
Post by: Monk321654 on April 18, 2012, 04:42:33 pm
And now...No problem, pardner.Spoiler: EPIC CHANGELOG v0.18a (click to show/hide)
Have fun with those!
Oh, and if you ever want to request something, shoot me a call.
Post by: nekronuke on April 18, 2012, 06:00:24 pm
Post by: Pan on April 18, 2012, 06:12:06 pm
i keep seeing lesser demons getting enraged... the hell?
Yea, from there. :D
Watchers can reproduce? H...How? ???
I don't see my Zephyrs on the battlements casting their abilities. What happened? Fortifications restricting that again?
Post by: nekronuke on April 18, 2012, 08:26:46 pm
Post by: Meph on April 18, 2012, 08:36:26 pm
Post by: nekronuke on April 18, 2012, 08:39:52 pm
sorry nekronuke, but the answer is: Spores.
INCONCEIVABLE
Post by: Imp on April 18, 2012, 09:03:07 pm
Watchers can reproduce? H...How? ???
It's all in the eyes.... loving glances.... they've got eyes to die for - they must, for they are watchers!
Post by: Pan on April 18, 2012, 10:53:50 pm
Post by: Stirk on April 19, 2012, 12:03:08 am
Well looks like viodwalkers are in the lead...Apparently people like being cut up?
Meokins are in second. I voted for them personally. I mean, how could you not like the species that whips out all the enemies ever in legends? Not to mention the fact that they do it wearing bikini tops and maid dresses. And they are about to start selling you robots. Why not vote for Meokin? They are the only thing that will stop the Shedim.
Post by: vorpal+5 on April 19, 2012, 03:46:04 am
Post by: Pan on April 19, 2012, 05:16:38 am
It started with a lizardman vanguard that came from the north. A squad of them with hammers, led by a blowgunner. I order the military to position themselves on the fortress entrance. The lizardman soldiers were bombarded when they killed a flashbang and a putrid zinger that were pastured outside. This caused them to be loosely organized, instead of being in swarms where they could easily overwhelm the first dwarf that engages them. With the potentially threatening formation broken, I order the military to advance on them. Facing a tightly packed wave of steel clad beards, the puking and stunned lizardman advance was...
(http://s14.postimage.org/kh4n81cnx/Lizardman_vanguard.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/kh4n81cnx/)
... cut to pieces, with only two escaping by being too near the edge of the map.
The elven caravan was, at this point, arriving in the east. I order the military back to training. However, two voidwalker ambushes were quickly discovered. The half hearted lizardman attack was (story wise) a diversion! And I had let down my guard!
The first attack appeared at the west, with a steel bound energy bolt that missed a marksdwarf by a square. It's a veteran annihilator leading a squad of lashers. I panic and order all marksdwarves on rampants (not a good idea... But meh it worked out. Just watch).
The marksdwarf fires back, but it predicts the unskilled marksdwarf's aim and dodges them before returning fire. It hits the marksdwarf on the chest, tearing a lung and then ripping off a leg. At this point, however, something amazing happened. The marksdwarf commander has arrived on deck, and fires two bolts in quick succession, one lodging itself on the lower body, the other grazing apart the throat. This fatal shot proves the end of the voidwalker, who quickly bleed to death. Gentleman, behold and fear the world's most precise shooter, who may very well have saved the lives of many of his fellow marksdwarves.:
(http://s16.postimage.org/y5pp6rk1d/Marksdwarf.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/y5pp6rk1d/)
However, it is at this point where the shit hit the fans. I was content to let the voidwalkers tear apart the elves while I shot at them in safety. However, another ambush was to be found - the emberlight tower! A squad of giant mosquito mounted voidwalker reavers had sneaked up on the caster. Now, since emberlights cannot shoot through fortifications, I have created a tower that is open, but with raisable bridges to stop arrows in case they appear. An emberlight stands there at all times, scouring the surrounding flammable woodlands for passing enemies. The voidwalker had snuck up on him with the mosquito flyer. The emberlight snaps his fingers and invokes Zalkor's inner fire and hits the mosquito, hoping for it to fall upon the ground, taking it's master with it. It did not work, and the voidwalker hacks the emberlight apart before he could set it alight with a fireball. Across the long overhead bridge that leads to the emberlight tower, a master speardwarf notices the butchering and rushes across to help. But halfway across the bridge, and the emberlight is hewn cruelly apart. He stands at the edge of the bridge, watching the mosquito rider fly away...and is crushed as the bridge was finally raised.
I couldn't stand losing two of my best dwarves at once, and immediately save scummed. So sue me. It's been a bad day...
Post by: Jilladilla on April 19, 2012, 05:36:09 am
Where can I stockpile slabs of accreditation? I don't find anyway of moving them except by dump.im not sure, but are you using the document alchemical research reaction at the alchemy lab?
and pan... wow... nice story, and shame on you for save-scumming!
Post by: Demiurge on April 19, 2012, 06:31:05 am
I've just moved house and been rather busy overall so not had much time to play but my latest tundra fort is doing well. I'm only in the first year but somehow a polar bear managed to get into the fort without my notice and tore apart my armorer prodigy :( I don't have a militia of any sort yet so I walled it off while it was running down a prospecting tunnel so its secure for now. I'll get it trapped later and see if I can tame it.
For now I'm burning through the stockpile of coal I brought to make some decent armor but it'll be a few years before I can really put a military together.
I just hope its stable. I had to turn off seasonal autosaves because 10,000 years amounts to an almost 300mb save file and it takes ages for it to save.
Post by: vorpal+5 on April 19, 2012, 06:45:11 am
Where can I stockpile slabs of accreditation? I don't find anyway of moving them except by dump.im not sure, but are you using the document alchemical research reaction at the alchemy lab?
and pan... wow... nice story, and shame on you for save-scumming!
nice story indeed!
I use the slabs, that's no problem, but I would like to move them closer from the alchemical labs, so I need a valid stockpile ... which is?
and q2... can someone remind me how to move from iron to steel? is it as in vanilla DF?
oh and by the way. Let me reiterate that the mod is great! This courtesy done, any plan to use more graphics for monsters? I have bunch of creatures that are only represented by letters in the games, even mundane animals are and I think it detracts from the beauty of the mod.
Post by: narhiril on April 19, 2012, 12:12:25 pm
Where can I stockpile slabs of accreditation? I don't find anyway of moving them except by dump.im not sure, but are you using the document alchemical research reaction at the alchemy lab?
and pan... wow... nice story, and shame on you for save-scumming!
nice story indeed!
I use the slabs, that's no problem, but I would like to move them closer from the alchemical labs, so I need a valid stockpile ... which is?
and q2... can someone remind me how to move from iron to steel? is it as in vanilla DF?
oh and by the way. Let me reiterate that the mod is great! This courtesy done, any plan to use more graphics for monsters? I have bunch of creatures that are only represented by letters in the games, even mundane animals are and I think it detracts from the beauty of the mod.
There isn't a stockpile for slabs. I did this on purpose, to prevent a ridiculous amount of hauling jobs. You're probably best off building another alchemy lab near your training workshops and using that for documentation (this is what I do). If you've unlocked everything, you can use a trash compactor as well for slightly faster removal.
I'm focusing right now on this update - which, assuming I can get the shedim to siege me today, is on schedule for tomorrow's release - but this graphics dilemma is definitely my next project. Ironhand's been very busy lately (he has a big-time internship at Bethesda, if I recall correctly), so my ironclad plan of waiting for him to do it for me seems to have run into the exiled rift warden of real life. I'll be hitting up this (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=101137.75) thread for some and probably working on some of my own to try to fill out what's missing. Fortunately, BradUffner was able to put together a tool that scans the raws and spits out a list of creatures that are missing graphics, so that will make things go a bit more smoothly.
Post by: Meph on April 19, 2012, 01:11:45 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/3aUn1.png)
Post by: narhiril on April 19, 2012, 01:32:04 pm
Now I just need to play the game until the shedim show up so I can test if their caste/profession graphics are actually working.
Post by: Revanchist on April 19, 2012, 02:08:12 pm
Post by: narhiril on April 19, 2012, 02:36:50 pm
Sorry if this question was asked already (145 is a lot of pages) but I notice the Nephilim are easily the most succesful at land aquisition. They always outcompete the other civs. Was this intentional?
Some of this has to do with the fact that most of the other races use dark fortress or forest retreat homes, which are still very much a work in progress from Toady's standpoint. I have considered moving the meowkin over to cities and towns (as that seems to make a bit more sense), but I haven't had time to test and tune the effect on balance that this will have. Lizardmen are supposed to be xenophobic and tribal, and bog trolls form outposts more so than settlements, whereas voidwalkers genuinely have no interest in land - only in maintaining superior technology. The shedim were not even supposed to have settlements, but they currently use mountain homes because they needed to use something to work properly - I chose mountain homes so that you can't visit their settlements in adventure mode.
Completely unrelated - my test fortress civilization has a meowkin king. I might continue that fort after the release just for grins.
Post by: Jilladilla on April 19, 2012, 03:19:44 pm
and q2... can someone remind me how to move from iron to steel? is it as in vanilla DF?
making steel is the same as in vanilla
but here it can be upgraded into damascus steel with a bar of vanadium
it can also be used to produce hadrine (just a note: this is HEAVY)
Post by: narhiril on April 19, 2012, 04:16:19 pm
Fortunately, I was able to fix it by removing the repeated caste-level references to the STANDARD_MATERIALS body detail plan, which seemed to put everything back to normal. Ugh.
Post by: Pan on April 19, 2012, 05:57:22 pm
Where can I stockpile slabs of accreditation? I don't find anyway of moving them except by dump.im not sure, but are you using the document alchemical research reaction at the alchemy lab?
and pan... wow... nice story, and shame on you for save-scumming!
nice story indeed!
I use the slabs, that's no problem, but I would like to move them closer from the alchemical labs, so I need a valid stockpile ... which is?
I too, cannot find it. Oh well.
Thanks guys. By the way, I cannot stress how powerful the megalania can be. They can reflect anything up to steel, so goblins got nothing on them. A voidwalker with a voidshard mallet was beating at it, and it just kept on on ragdoll shaking it by the foot till the whole thing damn near came off. Anyway, after savescumming I attempted the siege again. The mosquito leader this time attempted to enter through the roof. A macedwarf was up there, and he and his megalania pet managed to kill and hold down the mosquito and the voidwalker scum until reinforcements arrived. Macedwarf finished the mosquito quite spectacularly, shield bash to the face with left hand, and then iovium mace to the head with right hand. The voidwalker bashed at him with a mallet but it's blocked, then megalania jumped it and tore its muscles here and there in several places by shaking it like a dog would a chew toy.
Managed to win this siege, since I lucked out and there were no annihilators.
So sorry I couldn't help test the shedim, by the way. Just too absorbed in this fortress. Looking forward to the release. :)
Post by: vorpal+5 on April 20, 2012, 01:01:03 am
the corresponding txt file would be well appreciated, unless you put out the new version in the new 24 hours :D
Post by: vorpal+5 on April 20, 2012, 01:56:52 am
I understand that any reaction need to produce something though... So here is my proposed rework... And it would add money to the game, see
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=107791.0
Basically, you mint money to get coins. Coins are used for a lot of stuff: training dummies, do alchemical reactions, anything fancy should cost money, as you pay the dwarf to do his work. You would also do alchemical research by spending a lot of gold money.... and if you need gold, you can transmute stone to gold, so you can't be stuck here...
Slabs: alchemical workshop can produce one slab for xxx gold coins. A training dummy needs one slab to operate (plus some coins for the drill master) and produces... one slab. Basically you don't spam slabs as they are continuously produced.
A refinement of the system that I would prefer is that a training dummy costs 5 slabs and produce 4. So from time to time you have to buy new accreditations at the workshops, for a few coins, coins that you would mint with the gold bar you transmute!
Last point, I think that the transmutation of 10 stones to one bar of gold is too generous. I understand that the hidden cost here is that you have to haul 10 stones. Still, even taking that into account I think a cost of 15 stones would be more fit. Obviously this is my point of view on a cost balance, but I have played quite a lot this mod lately and you can really generate a lot of gold bars that are worth quite a lot too once re-manufactured... So I advocate the 15 stones cost.
Narhiril, I would really like you to see interest in my proposal of minting gold bars into gold coins and using this new dwarves money into a lot of new (or not new) reactions, as part of the cost. This would be a new dimension in DF... You could create shopkeepers, black market etc. that would sell stuff. This would also unstuck players from some dire situations. Say you really need one bar of soap or plaster. For a high price (because you want that to be a pricey solution) a shopkeeper would sell you one. Etc.
Post by: Meph on April 20, 2012, 02:35:01 am
Post by: Pan on April 20, 2012, 03:21:33 am
Post by: vorpal+5 on April 20, 2012, 03:37:38 am
At the very least, I see a money system interesting on 2 out of 3 points anyway... The 3 points would be:
a) get rare resources because you are stuck. This is what you fear might be a problem. Ok, we can drop that
b) get a common resource you lack and is crippling you. Say you really need this bar of plaster to fix bones. I believe it is abnormal to lose precious dorfs just because of that. A money system would help, with shopkeepers.
c) have a lot of reactions, shops etc. work with money as input. I see no problem with that and it would add the dimension of 'Dwarves economy'.
So at worst, (b) and (c) seems interesting, and (a) can be touchy as it can lead to exploits.
Post by: Jeoshua on April 20, 2012, 04:10:24 am
Chief Medical Dwarf: "Urist McDwarf is injured? Our finest defender? And we're out of supplies? Quick, nurse! Send word to the magistrate that we need a resupply from the mountain homes as soon as possible! Our finest warrior's life depends upon it! Drain the coffers, if you must!"
Without Money:
Chief Medical Dwarf: "We lose more Dwarves that way"
Rakost "Doc" McDwarf pulls the lever
Magma ensues.
Post by: vorpal+5 on April 20, 2012, 04:17:47 am
Post by: Pan on April 20, 2012, 04:22:31 am
Finally got a second emberlight today. I picked a dwarf that had only one leg, and upon finishing the ritual, his leg was restored to him. So much win and story potential. Also, exploiting crippled dwarves.
Post by: Jeoshua on April 20, 2012, 04:27:05 am
You can get things for any two of the following:
Cheap
Fast
Quality
You cannot have all three. Spending money on goods means they'll either be slow or crappy. So varying qualities of the goods ordered, sometimes verging on the abysmally bad (aka sourced from elves). So the randomness need not be just the black market shops. You might end up with half the order you asked for, or at half the quality. Something like that.
Post by: Pan on April 20, 2012, 04:30:30 am
Post by: narhiril on April 20, 2012, 10:32:44 am
smakemupagus wrote a mod for my mod based on this system. He, and I am well, are still working on balancing it, but the main problem I see with this is that these "blackmarket" traders, merchants, tradehalls or however you want to call them, will trade with you at all time. Even if you have a fortress that is in constant lockdown since 10 years and besieged by everything. It makes normal caravans a lot less interesting and messes up the balancing quite badly.
I can actually think of a way around this. Shops need to be "stocked" with "goods" before they can "sell" them, and "goods" can just be tools that need to be imported. That way you can buy what you want from the shop, but you're limited in how many purchases you can make by how many stock items you import - similar to how mech parts caches are going to work.
I'm not super convinced by the interest of slabs of accreditation in fact. There is a lot produced, so it forces you to have alchemy workshops nearby the training dummies, which is not super logical (I would prefer to leave them in barracks e.g).
I understand that any reaction need to produce something though... So here is my proposed rework... And it would add money to the game, see
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=107791.0
Basically, you mint money to get coins. Coins are used for a lot of stuff: training dummies, do alchemical reactions, anything fancy should cost money, as you pay the dwarf to do his work. You would also do alchemical research by spending a lot of gold money.... and if you need gold, you can transmute stone to gold, so you can't be stuck here...
Slabs: alchemical workshop can produce one slab for xxx gold coins. A training dummy needs one slab to operate (plus some coins for the drill master) and produces... one slab. Basically you don't spam slabs as they are continuously produced.
A refinement of the system that I would prefer is that a training dummy costs 5 slabs and produce 4. So from time to time you have to buy new accreditations at the workshops, for a few coins, coins that you would mint with the gold bar you transmute!
Last point, I think that the transmutation of 10 stones to one bar of gold is too generous. I understand that the hidden cost here is that you have to haul 10 stones. Still, even taking that into account I think a cost of 15 stones would be more fit. Obviously this is my point of view on a cost balance, but I have played quite a lot this mod lately and you can really generate a lot of gold bars that are worth quite a lot too once re-manufactured... So I advocate the 15 stones cost.
Narhiril, I would really like you to see interest in my proposal of minting gold bars into gold coins and using this new dwarves money into a lot of new (or not new) reactions, as part of the cost. This would be a new dimension in DF... You could create shopkeepers, black market etc. that would sell stuff. This would also unstuck players from some dire situations. Say you really need one bar of soap or plaster. For a high price (because you want that to be a pricey solution) a shopkeeper would sell you one. Etc.
Here's the problem with training workshops - right now, they don't make the most sense (producing slabs to be destroyed at an alchemy lab or trash compactor), but they work beautifully, with absolutely no micromanagement once you get them set up. Adding a token system for reagents forces you to constantly monitor your reserves not just of coins, but of the metal they are made from. It doesn't sound like much, but it's one more thing to worry about, and I think it seems a little silly that in an attempt to make an epic last stand for the making or breaking of a fortress, a couple of soldiers would have to worry about paying for the obstacle course. That would be a very human thing to do, but kind of takes away from it, in my opinion.
This doesn't mean that I reject your idea - not in the least. I actually have been meaning to revise a few immersion aspects along the lines of training workshops. I can very easily remove slabs of accreditation from the game entirely and replace them with harmless boiling stones for the same effect without any clutter. I could then use your coin system as a base for the replacement for the "document alchemical research" reaction, where you would be paying your researcher to research new breakthroughs. The only problem I can think of is that there really isn't anything I can convey to the researcher from this, so the "coins" would essentially just disappear and convey no additional benefit to the dwarf performing the research.
I do agree with your point about gold, however. I can up the cost there in a snap - 15 sounds quite reasonable.
Post by: Pan on April 20, 2012, 10:35:26 am
Woah, did not expect a ninja from narhiril...
Post by: narhiril on April 20, 2012, 10:50:40 am
Unrelated but important - how goes the Shedim testing, and with it, the next version?
Woah, did not expect a ninja from narhiril...
The graphics work, and I fixed the bizarre tissue problem, so they're about as ready to go as they're going to be.
I'm currently trying to figure out the best way to package all of this up, so bear with me for a little while as I sort out which files need to go where and what documentation needs to be updated (mostly just the change log, I think). I'll try to get an upload as fast as reasonably possible.
Post by: narhiril on April 20, 2012, 11:34:07 am
Version 0.18a is out (unofficially known as the "lightning, mechs, interactions, and WTF IS THAT THING, OH GOD, IT'S SHOOTING AT ME" update).
Seeing as this is by far the largest update in LFR's history, a few little glitches may have slipped their way in. As usual, please report any issues directly to me via PM or posting here.
Have fun!!!
(http://i.imgur.com/lSDgP.png)
That ah tel did some damage before he went down >.<
Also, happy 4/20 to anyone who is into that sort of thing.
Post by: Pan on April 20, 2012, 03:51:52 pm
Post by: Jilladilla on April 20, 2012, 03:54:26 pm
reaction_ritual-t3
reaction_ritual_t3
they contain mostly duplicate entries, except that reaction_ritual_t3 has the additions and changes you mentioned in the changelog, while reaction_ritual-t3 appears to be carried over from version .17a
Post by: tahujdt on April 20, 2012, 04:28:35 pm
Post by: Pan on April 20, 2012, 04:32:17 pm
How did you get the picture of NyanCat in the stone?
Narhiril designed and built that out of colored crystals. She just felt like sharing it. Has nothing to do with the mod except how you can use the colorful crystals. A reference to internet meme put on the front page? Just Narhiril being Narhiril.
Post by: smakemupagus on April 20, 2012, 04:45:24 pm
smakemupagus wrote a mod for my mod based on this system. He, and I am well, are still working on balancing it, but the main problem I see with this is that these "blackmarket" traders, merchants, tradehalls or however you want to call them, will trade with you at all time. Even if you have a fortress that is in constant lockdown since 10 years and besieged by everything. It makes normal caravans a lot less interesting and messes up the balancing quite badly.
I can actually think of a way around this. Shops need to be "stocked" with "goods" before they can "sell" them, and "goods" can just be tools that need to be imported. That way you can buy what you want from the shop, but you're limited in how many purchases you can make by how many stock items you import - similar to how mech parts caches are going to work.
Oh, that's an interesting idea.
Post by: Meph on April 20, 2012, 04:51:24 pm
Post by: Pan on April 20, 2012, 05:33:44 pm
Post by: Jilladilla on April 20, 2012, 05:56:14 pm
Think there's a problem with the files and everything. Don't know what, but I've used the raws only version to update my game. Same error pops up like the last release did at first.
check your raws, i know i'm using pre-installed ironhand graphics but there was a reaction_ritual-t3.text file and a reaction_ritual_t3.text file in my raws
they contain duplicate reactions, if you have both get rid of the smaller file (reaction_ritual_t3 was the proper text file for me)
Post by: Pan on April 20, 2012, 06:00:17 pm
Post by: narhiril on April 20, 2012, 06:53:40 pm
Delete "reaction_ritual-t3.txt" (the smaller of the two, should be ~5kb) to clear that up. This is fixed in the newest upload of the pre-installed version.
Post by: Pan on April 20, 2012, 07:08:59 pm
Post by: Pan on April 20, 2012, 07:29:01 pm
Post by: narhiril on April 20, 2012, 11:14:38 pm
Nope, doesn't work :(
It might be these damned zip files again. I think I'm going back to rars from now on. Uploading new files for both, in case the problem is persisting for anyone else.
Post by: Pan on April 20, 2012, 11:21:21 pm
By the way, how are the voidwalker's anatomy changed?
Post by: narhiril on April 20, 2012, 11:25:50 pm
Great, I'll try again.
By the way, how are the voidwalker's anatomy changed?
Renaming of the upper body ("thorax") and revised, more insectoid wings made of chitin. I also renamed their spearmen and added a few extra color modifiers. It won't affect gameplay much, but it adds some flavor.
If your problem persists, please let me know. I'm not going to bed until I can get this working.
Post by: Pan on April 20, 2012, 11:45:53 pm
Post by: Pan on April 20, 2012, 11:56:20 pm
Post by: narhiril on April 21, 2012, 12:01:37 am
Raws only version doesn't work. New version works just fine. Good night, Narhiril. :) And again, I feel like such a prick for not helping test the shedim.
Alright well, I'm not sure what would be causing that. At least you got it working, though. And don't worry, there will always be more opportunities to test things. :)
If anyone else runs into this problem, please let me know, and try to give as many details as possible.
Post by: Imp on April 21, 2012, 01:17:07 am
But this caught my eye, and then my attention, and is so unique and different that it makes me really wonder how this happened - I'd ask why it was done, but I cannot imagine this having been done on purpose...
So I'm getting ready to embark on the woo-new LoFR, and I'm buying up some different sorts of cheap meats to give me many easily-emptied barrels (and some motivation to see what animals the parent civ has access to, cause I usually wonder that).
I've looked at a lot of body parts, and bought a lot of the cheap ones over the different games. Carbunkle usually comes in two forms, meat and prepared intestines, and I spotted it where I roughly remember it always being, between the bronze-shelled tortoise and the saber-toothed tiger parts.
Several pages later, and oh, wait.... that's a whole lot of carbunkle parts.
Pretty much the rest of a carcass, all the bits most critters have, but without the meat and intestines, placed between the giant kea bits and the wolf bits.
It's a small thing to have blown my mind so much, but.... I've never, ever seen meat 'out of order' before. Makes me wonder if this is empyrean carbunkle parts, maybe. But if so, it's missing the meat and intestines.... duped over maybe? But there's been empyreans for as long as I've played, but not this weird separate prepared-parts for them.
Ahh well, I may get to caught in the minutia to ever actually get this game started, but you've sure made an interesting-in-VERY-many ways new LoFR :D
Post by: Pan on April 21, 2012, 06:30:46 am
Post by: Pan on April 21, 2012, 08:30:56 am
Voidwalker ambush! The armies are split. The causeway in the middle seperates the soldiers on the west (led by the anonymous hammerlord) and the soldiers in the north (led by the champion axedwarf Fath). Each group consists of a mixture of different soldiers in different squads. Both groups are ambushed by the void obliterators. The west voidwalker force is led by an obliterator veteran, while the northern ambushers answer to the sinister figure that is busy projected energies of the void onto the rampants, slowly tearing apart an unlucky recruit marksdwarf.
(http://s18.postimage.org/v2sp226k5/The_Trap_is_Sprung.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/v2sp226k5/)
There was general panic, as voidwalkers are unstoppable on the field. The western front, however, quickly strikes down a voidwalker. The hammerlord, spearmaster and captain of the guard works their way through the crowd, shattering limbs with each blow from a masterwork iovium hammer, masterwork voidshard spear and iovium mace. The voidwalkers retaliate, and a proficiently skilled swordsdwarf is swarmed and bludgeoned beyond recognition. The spearmaster coup de grace a voidwalker and stabs another full of holes. The captain of the guard has his knees shattered and manages to crawl away from the fighting.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I lost no more than 5 dwarves, while killing about 4 squads of voidwalkers. Although I got a ton of dwarves that have knee caps, legs, and arms heavily injured, meaning I will need to convert them to wavebreakers or something to restore their bodies. That is, if the Temple of Water would stop being buggy and let me build it...
Anyway, just HAD to note this battle down. True, not as well written as it was rushed and informal. But come on guys, dead voidwalkers? Awww Yeaah.
Post by: Stirk on April 21, 2012, 09:35:02 am
Quote
Anyone got trouble constructing the Temple of Water? I have both sacred pool construction sets, but it still says I require that. I'm playing the older version (want to finish off this fort before playing the new one)
Did you bless the water and everything?
Post by: Pan on April 21, 2012, 09:54:56 am
EDIT: Oh I see, silly me. Checked ritual reference.
Post by: NotErich on April 21, 2012, 03:42:56 pm
Post by: Meph on April 21, 2012, 04:09:49 pm
Post by: Imp on April 21, 2012, 04:41:56 pm
And in 83, The Strike of Throwing was created by Libash.
I've never seen a god have such a message before... recieving worship and cursing people, sure.
Has this god made an artifact? If so... I'm very glad for my world that DF doesn't really connect concepts together that tightly. Chaos creating a Strike of Throwing just makes me feel scared for the world!
Post by: Alkhemia on April 21, 2012, 04:50:03 pm
Here's a scary new thing, at least new and scary to me. Was checking the gods of my starting seven and saw that someone worships Libash, the Stormy Thorn, female dwarf of chaos...
And in 83, The Strike of Throwing was created by Libash.
I've never seen a god have such a message before... recieving worship and cursing people, sure.
Has this god made an artifact? If so... I'm very glad for my world that DF doesn't really connect concepts together that tightly. Chaos creating a Strike of Throwing just makes me feel scared for the world!
it made a slab if LFR has any new Secrets then it might be one of those or it just a necromancer
Post by: Pan on April 22, 2012, 06:44:20 am
Narhiril, what will be next on your list?
Post by: fire1666 on April 22, 2012, 06:51:34 am
just a suggestion, add secret underground chambers that have got some living vangard people inside (armed of course).
or a vanguard race (small but VERY powerful).
also like the update spiders are cool
Post by: fire1666 on April 22, 2012, 06:59:57 am
simular tech and socity to dwarfs but with a MASSIVE tech advantage e.g.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
if you want me too i will write down some more information if you need it.
Post by: Pan on April 22, 2012, 07:11:32 am
Post by: Meph on April 22, 2012, 08:29:16 am
Post by: Pan on April 22, 2012, 08:37:02 am
Post by: Stirk on April 22, 2012, 11:42:56 am
But last time I read the lore there is meant to be an underground civilization that uses vanguards tech. But since you can't build farms underground, they all starve, until the mod maker finds a walk around. I think that would be a better solution, it still allows the vanguards to be the vanguard race, but it would bring in the tech you want.
Post by: Demiurge on April 23, 2012, 04:20:51 am
Post by: vorpal+5 on April 23, 2012, 04:40:25 am
1. Is it compatible with old save, I don't want to abandon my fort
2. I'm intrigued by reference to evil biome swamp reaction. What is that? Is Narhiril capable of adding reactions specifics to a biome? Awesomeness has a name then! ;)
3. Rakashas? I want to know more... Not a civ it seems, so what?
4. Is manual well updated with tiers IV novelties etc.? Never forget the hords of mindless players like me that need easy to understand piece of infos! ;)
Post by: Demiurge on April 23, 2012, 04:48:52 am
Post by: Pan on April 23, 2012, 05:07:46 am
We could have vanguard, but personally I think that that would ruin their lore. They are the first civilization, a highly advanced civilization that dissipated, leaving behind ruins and a mysterious history. Making them still alive would kind of ruin that (Dadadush).
But last time I read the lore there is meant to be an underground civilization that uses vanguards tech. But since you can't build farms underground, they all starve, until the mod maker finds a walk around. I think that would be a better solution, it still allows the vanguards to be the vanguard race, but it would bring in the tech you want.
Yea, you have a point.
Quote
I have not tried **yet* the new versions, but still, I have questions!
1. Is it compatible with old save, I don't want to abandon my fort
2. I'm intrigued by reference to evil biome swamp reaction. What is that? Is Narhiril capable of adding reactions specifics to a biome? Awesomeness has a name then! ;)
3. Rakashas? I want to know more... Not a civ it seems, so what?
4. Is manual well updated with tiers IV novelties etc.? Never forget the hords of mindless players like me that need easy to understand piece of infos! ;)
1. No... That's why I'm still playing my old fortress, waiting for it to die before playing the new fortresses.
2. Yes. Aw yeah!
3. Not a civ. Wandering animal men, if I had to guess.
4. I believe so.
You know, with a new version, I was anticipating some discussion. But then again, I myself is still trying to finish off my old fortress first before touching the new version.
Is there a way for the paragon temple to also allow healing for a dwarf? A reaction that gives them a new body? With combat now, the continuous sieges will eventually make sure all your dwarves have severed motor nerves, severed limbs and such. Statistics dictates so. And even then, dwarves with no useless limbs still get infections. :( Eventually, you will be overwhelmed. While I do like that (losing is fun!), I do think a expensive reaction that can give a dwarf a new body (restore limbs, remove infections) will be much appreciated by people here. Is it possible? And if so, will you be interested in this, Narhiril?
Post by: vorpal+5 on April 23, 2012, 07:51:40 am
I'll leave to the veterans there the fine points of discussing with mistress Narhiril if the novelties work well and if they are not bugged. Still fighting zombies with tiers I/II stuff there... I should have probably not played in an evil biome though, but then I want challenge.
As for non compatibility, in which way? :) I mean if I don't get Rakashas I don't mind, but I would have liked to get the tiers IV stuff, this won't be in if I upgrade?
Post by: Pan on April 23, 2012, 09:39:10 am
I seriously hate it when emberlights fuck it all up. And they take so much resources to make, too.
Post by: narhiril on April 23, 2012, 11:59:02 am
I hope Toady gets around to simulating the underground civilizations soon. Back when he had trouble with underground highways for Dwarf civs he just gave up on the whole idea but it'd be cool if he decided to take it up again.
If he did this, I would destroy the shrine to him that is currently sitting in my closet and upgrade it to a temple.
Well, I don't think any of the new workshops and associated reactions in them will be carried over. And that's the meat of the update anyway. The little things that could work without world regen is the changed zinger anatomy and... Pretty much it I guess. I know the feel bro. But then again, my fortress just burned down from Zalkor's flames. So it's off to the new version!
I seriously hate it when emberlights fuck it all up. And they take so much resources to make, too.
I'm actually not quite happy with emberlights right now from a cost-benefit standpoint. The idea behind requiring so many resources was because emberlights were coming from a technically "tier two" ritual hybrid building, so they were going to be the first units available. However, when I ended up turning the ritual tree into more of an investment choice-based progression rather than a linear one, that became kind of a moot point. Right now, emberlights require some ridiculous number of reagents in addition to a tech advancement to unlock, whereas things like tempests are a lot more straightforward. I can tell that they need some tweaking because I'm even just kind of ignoring the Temple of Fire during testing. I'm thinking it might be time for a radical cost readjustment - something along the lines of two iron bars, two ash, and two logs.
That being said, it's an immense amount of fun to build a "lava maze" and force your enemy to walk through it while fighting emberlights. Because they're not the sharpest knives in the drawer, enemies end up dodging into magma, while emberlights who do the same can just climb back out. Just make sure you watch out for voidwalkers when you do this, as that can get ugly in a hurry...
--
On a somewhat unrelated note, I think I've got a much better structure for the training workshop and tier two advancement portion of the tech tree. Training workshops will no longer produce slabs of accreditation in the next update - instead, I'm switching them over to harmless boiling stones. This should both reduce clutter and reduce the spam in your announcement log due to masterwork slabs being produced.
Obviously, with the removal of slabs, documentation needs some revision as well. What I was planning to do was to give alchemical and transmutation experiments a 100% product called something along the lines of "experiment results." These items would then be used for the documentation reaction, which would be re-named "evaluate experimental findings" or something like that to produce the same products it does now. Obviously the ratio will be adjusted - I won't make you do ten experiments for every research attempt. I was thinking more along the lines of one or two. I may even feel like pushing to make this change the bulk of the 0.18b update, since I feel like this is a better system, overall, from both a lore and functionality standpoint. But more on that as it starts to come together.
Post by: fire1666 on April 23, 2012, 12:08:25 pm
if its possible to script, when you find some ruins there is a chance you breakinto a chamber with *slumbering* or inanimate* vanguard's, if you remove ANY treasure or items from the room they *reanimate* or *awaken*, they will then procede to attack you as soon as they see you dwarfs.
i hope that cleared up what i ment :D
Post by: Pan on April 23, 2012, 05:54:52 pm
By the way, what are radiant priests and night stalkers? These are planned, but what's the general idea for them? Also, I thought there would be paragons of Visthels, but the ritual reference did not leave an empty space for it.
Post by: Jilladilla on April 23, 2012, 09:15:00 pm
on a slightly interesting note i found a nephillim civilization that has an Aatxe in a position of authority; it's only a consul though...
Post by: azrael300 on April 23, 2012, 10:06:58 pm
Post by: vorpal+5 on April 24, 2012, 03:27:56 am
Ok, I have a new proposal Narhiril... This is to work on how the various workshops are shown. I think they can be better, more original, cooler, etc.
See what is for me top notch skill for imaginative workshop display... What Deon is doing for his post apoc mod... This is quite awesome. Size, shape, color, everything change...
Don't restrict yourself to 3x3 tiles... Introduce symetry in your workshop so they can be readily recognizable. Dare add big workshops, so you can play with more tiles and color!! Unleash the power in you :P
(http://i.imgur.com/DZtLt.png)
Post by: Demiurge on April 24, 2012, 03:33:57 am
I hope Toady gets around to simulating the underground civilizations soon. Back when he had trouble with underground highways for Dwarf civs he just gave up on the whole idea but it'd be cool if he decided to take it up again.
If he did this, I would destroy the shrine to him that is currently sitting in my closet and upgrade it to a temple.
Did you make the totem out of kitten skulls?
Post by: Jilladilla on April 24, 2012, 03:53:56 am
Don't restrict yourself to 3x3 tiles... Introduce symetry in your workshop so they can be readily recognizable. Dare add big workshops, so you can play with more tiles and color!! Unleash the power in you :P
Have you SEEN the temples? Those things are HUGE!
Also some of the higher tech building need some space...
Post by: Pan on April 24, 2012, 03:55:43 am
will there ever be a addition of engines space planets and plasma weapons?
Probably not. But I guess your questions on this subject is already being answered on the other thread you made.
What I meat with the paragons were why they were not reserved a spot in the manual like the radiant priests and the shadowstalkers. But then again, neither were the lacerators and assorted other previously mentioned religious creatures. Not a big deal, anyway.
I love javelin throwers. They tear apart the enemy. A good marskdwarf one-shot two lizardmen in a row, blowing one's lower body, then shooting off another's head. Then he proceeded to rip apart a megalania. But you need skilled marksdwarves and good quality throwers, or they will just miss and waste those expensive ass javelins.
Idea. How about letting Zephyrs able to temporarily stop a flying creature from flying, causing it to crash? I see no way this can go wrong. Also, their vortexes of air sometimes gets dropped as an item (called 'vortex of air'), which then gets lugged to a food stockpile.
By the way, can zephyrs cast the headwind, tail wind spells through fortifications?
Post by: narhiril on April 24, 2012, 12:46:51 pm
Don't restrict yourself to 3x3 tiles... Introduce symetry in your workshop so they can be readily recognizable. Dare add big workshops, so you can play with more tiles and color!! Unleash the power in you :P
Have you SEEN the temples? Those things are HUGE!
Also some of the higher tech building need some space...
To be fair, some of the older workshops in the mod (advanced mechanics workshop and obstacle course in particular) could use some touch-up work. However, I feel like the newer ones are pretty damn cool. I'm particularly happy with the orrery, advanced alchemy lab, and temples.
will there ever be a addition of engines space planets and plasma weapons?
Probably not. But I guess your questions on this subject is already being answered on the other thread you made.
What I meat with the paragons were why they were not reserved a spot in the manual like the radiant priests and the shadowstalkers. But then again, neither were the lacerators and assorted other previously mentioned religious creatures. Not a big deal, anyway.
Idea. How about letting Zephyrs able to temporarily stop a flying creature from flying, causing it to crash? I see no way this can go wrong. Also, their vortexes of air sometimes gets dropped as an item (called 'vortex of air'), which then gets lugged to a food stockpile.
By the way, can zephyrs cast the headwind, tail wind spells through fortifications?
A good idea, a bug, and yes. Headwind and tailwind do not have text associated with them, so it can sometimes be hard to tell, but I determined that this was better than the alternative (seeing nothing in your combat log but headwind/tailwind).
Post by: fire1666 on April 24, 2012, 01:47:30 pm
just i thought it would be better to tell you about this narhiril before i do release it, implanning to release it either end of this week or end of nxt week.
BTW the voidwalkers will be LORE COMPATABLE, everything i will add for them will be baised on the lore and what i think of it.
also i WILL give credit to narhiril, i don't belive in pleagarism *not sure how to spell it*.
thank you for making this awesome mod narhiril, without you i could not do what im doing now :D.
Post by: narhiril on April 24, 2012, 02:34:50 pm
just FYI for everyone im going to be making a mod that makes the voidwalkers a playable race, kind of a sub mod for legends of forlorn realms, when i upload should I only upload the void entitys buildings custom and the reactions custom files? or can i release the whole of the legends of forlorn realms pre packaged with my mod?
just i thought it would be better to tell you about this narhiril before i do release it, implanning to release it either end of this week or end of nxt week.
BTW the voidwalkers will be LORE COMPATABLE, everything i will add for them will be baised on the lore and what i think of it.
also i WILL give credit to narhiril, i don't belive in pleagarism *not sure how to spell it*.
thank you for making this awesome mod narhiril, without you i could not do what im doing now :D.
I would appreciate if you only uploaded the associated files. I look forward to seeing the results. ;)
Post by: Pan on April 24, 2012, 06:21:42 pm
Making my crippled grand champion a wavebreaker was a very bad idea. Instead of hacking apart his enemies with his voidshard battleaxe, he stands behind and fires chunks of ice at the voidwalkers. Without my champion supporting and killing everyone for them, the other dwarves are hard pressed. Even my grand champions were cut down.
Any other plans for upgraded weapons, narhiril? I do recall you mentioning mechanized javelin throwers packed with knife and throwable weapons. And what is this energy pack thing that is listed in the stockpiles and arena testing, but cannot be made in dwarf mode?
Post by: Jilladilla on April 24, 2012, 06:33:10 pm
Post by: narhiril on April 24, 2012, 06:36:30 pm
Yes, voidwalkers are quite the interesting race, no?
Making my crippled grand champion a wavebreaker was a very bad idea. Instead of hacking apart his enemies with his voidshard battleaxe, he stands behind and fires chunks of ice at the voidwalkers. Without my champion supporting and killing everyone for them, the other dwarves are hard pressed. Even my grand champions were cut down.
Any other plans for upgraded weapons, narhiril? I do recall you mentioning mechanized javelin throwers packed with knife and throwable weapons. And what is this energy pack thing that is listed in the stockpiles and arena testing, but cannot be made in dwarf mode?
I actually tested throwing weapons the other day, but they had some pretty serious negative consequences. They break the "individual choice, melee" command (as expected), but they also break woodcutter and miner item assignments. I'll have to look into this a bit more.
Post by: Pan on April 24, 2012, 11:01:50 pm
Narhiril, what would the next update be consisting of? More mechanical tiers, or more ritual units? Or more interesting creatures?
Speaking of interesting creatures, do humans, meowkin, dwarves settle in savage mountains? I'm hoping they could bring along these newfangled cannon beetles, since my recent mountain biome contained none.
Post by: narhiril on April 24, 2012, 11:36:08 pm
Where can I find mountain hearts? What kind of stone? What layer?
Narhiril, what would the next update be consisting of? More mechanical tiers, or more ritual units? Or more interesting creatures?
Speaking of interesting creatures, do humans, meowkin, dwarves settle in savage mountains? I'm hoping they could bring along these newfangled cannon beetles, since my recent mountain biome contained none.
Mountain hearts are found in raw mithril deposits. Obviously, those are fairly rare, so they can also be obtained from the "prayer for ritual gems" at the Temple of the Orphan.
I'll get back to you on the other points once I get some sleep and can give some more complete answers.
Post by: Imp on April 25, 2012, 12:21:39 am
Where can I find mountain hearts? What kind of stone? What layer?
I've almost always been able to order them through the dwarven caravan. Pricey, but they're usually there. If you're doing a new embark and haven't spent any points yet, you could probably even start with one.
Post by: Pan on April 25, 2012, 01:31:51 am
Post by: fire1666 on April 25, 2012, 01:41:38 am
any guesses what i should do also this is my first mod ever. :'(
so far i have renamed all of the voidwalkers naobles and made them acessable.
added 2 buildings
allowed them to make voidshards.
all void walker weapons craftable *buggy atm fixing it right now*
Post by: fire1666 on April 25, 2012, 01:56:38 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: narhiril on April 25, 2012, 11:29:11 am
when i ask my voidwalker to make any weapons they make a random weapon can someone help?Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Your product lines have an extra argument in them.
[PRODUCT:100:1:WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_VOID_REAVER:GET_MATERIAL_FROM_REAGENT:A:NONE]
...should be...
[PRODUCT:100:1:WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_VOID_REAVER:GET_MATERIAL_FROM_REAGENT:A:NONE]
Post by: fire1666 on April 25, 2012, 12:50:33 pm
thx narhiril :D fixing it right now.when i ask my voidwalker to make any weapons they make a random weapon can someone help?Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Your product lines have an extra argument in them.
[PRODUCT:100:1:WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_VOID_REAVER:GET_MATERIAL_FROM_REAGENT:A:NONE]
...should be...
[PRODUCT:100:1:WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_VOID_REAVER:GET_MATERIAL_FROM_REAGENT:A:NONE]
Post by: Pan on April 25, 2012, 05:57:46 pm
Post by: Jilladilla on April 25, 2012, 08:31:31 pm
Post by: Putnam on April 25, 2012, 08:56:08 pm
I'm asking here now because it's basically going to be a wholesale copy >_>
Post by: narhiril on April 26, 2012, 02:03:07 am
So um.. Regarding the cannon beetles?
To my knowledge, humans, meowkin, and dwarves do not set up settlements in savage mountain biomes. I'll go ahead and investigate this a bit further. If it becomes such that they're nigh impossible to come across, I'll make the necessary revisions.
umm... i just had a shedim siege (yes the shedim eating their mounts thing happened, but this is different) a wallarm (ah kora) got mauled by its own group (which was mostly currants except for the ah tel who put it down)
Not really sure why this happened. Give me a heads up if you see any more weird behavior.
Mind if I take the SHEDIM_CORPSE_EXPLODE_LFR and adapt it to my own purposes?
I'm asking here now because it's basically going to be a wholesale copy >_>
It's far from perfect, but go ahead.
Sorry for the short responses, guys, it's been a busy week. I'll try to make a little more time in the next few days.
Post by: Pan on April 26, 2012, 03:51:28 am
By the way, bog trolls seldom survive world gen in medium worlds. Oh well.
By the way, I know this is really unrelated, but do you see any harm in fixing vanilla bugs? Things such as broken finger nails and certain other body parts being unable to heal and being infected. Or the huge amount of eggs a few poultry can use to feed the entire fortress.
I can see how people will object to some vanilla bugs (like the eggs), so if this seems a good idea to you (another attraction of the mod! Fix irritating bugs and get cool new LFR stuff at the same time!) you could simply put this as an optional component.
Post by: narhiril on April 26, 2012, 01:28:11 pm
Hm. These cannon beetles are the third most exciting thing here... I really wish to see some. For now, I'll just copy paste the location of them to be the same as the megalania. This will make them tamable by dwarves in world gen.
By the way, bog trolls seldom survive world gen in medium worlds. Oh well.
By the way, I know this is really unrelated, but do you see any harm in fixing vanilla bugs? Things such as broken finger nails and certain other body parts being unable to heal and being infected. Or the huge amount of eggs a few poultry can use to feed the entire fortress.
I can see how people will object to some vanilla bugs (like the eggs), so if this seems a good idea to you (another attraction of the mod! Fix irritating bugs and get cool new LFR stuff at the same time!) you could simply put this as an optional component.
A few other known issues with this version...
-Shedim will periodically show up as "elite wrestlers" and ignore their caste graphics. Not much I can do about this, but it's only a minor issue.
-Frigid and pyrophoric zingers refuse to use their breath attacks with the new anatomy. I have a fix for this ready to go.
I can definitely work on a few vanilla issues (particularly the nails that never heal, etc) as optional components. Eggs are a bit more involved because they screw with population numbers if you mess with them, but I'll be sure to look into more options there. Options are good. :)
Bog trolls... well, I've had mixed results with them. They survived that 10000 year worldgen a few pages back, so I think they're doing alright overall, but they do seem to be the one race that dies out more often than others.
Now, if you'll excuse me, I've got three pages of shedim sitting at my front door and my diplomat wants to go home. A perfect time to play with some emberlights. :D
Post by: fire1666 on April 26, 2012, 01:37:10 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: narhiril on April 26, 2012, 02:04:02 pm
DF seems to crash with this, can somone help? (PS this is my first mod so dont hurt me)Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Try using [SKILL:FORGE_ARMOR]
Post by: Jilladilla on April 26, 2012, 05:38:36 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: andy_t_roo on April 26, 2012, 06:10:34 pm
Perhaps some way to get a longer lasting fuel source, or more efficient use of fuel? Perhaps found via alchemy? Basically, something to help bridge the gap between the early stages of wood/coal burning until you can get to magma, and also make alchemy more important earlier (so we can have more irradiation accidents!)
To balance it out, it could be more dangerous to obtain (SCIENCE) than wood or coal, but more reliable (ie: you could get an economy going on maps with little coal or trees). Yes, I know you can trade for wood or coal, but it's never sufficient for the needs of a fortress since beds can only be made from wood.
Alternatively (or in addition) perhaps harvesting a tree would give you multiple units of wood based on woodcutting skill and/or tree type, and wood items would use different amounts. Perhaps a bed would use more than bolts, for instance.
I like this idea. Unfortunately, most of the reaction raws (i.e. construct bed) are not public, and the number of logs from each tree is hard coded (to my knowledge), but I am not opposed to "alternate" fuel sources involving alchemy.
It should be possible to make trees drop a specific type of wood - ie, a "log", which can then be cut into 5 "planks" (masterwork has rough, fine, scrap wood, if you are after examples of how that could work)
Post by: narhiril on April 26, 2012, 09:22:36 pm
well this time i think ive found a bug with making the spidersSpoiler (click to show/hide)
Good catch. The material from reagent B and C should be reversed. I'll get on that and hopefully have a bugfix revision up tomorrow.
The good news is that you can modify that reaction without needed to regenerate.
Spoiler: It should look like this. (click to show/hide)
Post by: vorpal+5 on April 27, 2012, 12:21:14 am
Post by: Putnam on April 27, 2012, 12:23:58 am
Would you be able to make blindfold, so we can blind or not some given dwarves? This would be a modified helmet obviously... And the applications are numerous!
No, not with items.
Post by: vorpal+5 on April 27, 2012, 01:39:31 am
What is the current status, train of thoughts of Narhiril about allowing some potions to restore limbs etc. ?
Post by: narhiril on April 27, 2012, 12:18:40 pm
Would you be able to make blindfold, so we can blind or not some given dwarves? This would be a modified helmet obviously... And the applications are numerous!
No, unfortunately. I'm toying with the idea of a NOFEAR civilian caste to operate siege equipment, but I haven't yet tested it in game.
Ok, so what about potions lasting a while?
What is the current status, train of thoughts of Narhiril about allowing some potions to restore limbs etc. ?
This is an interesting idea that I'll need some time to work out. In the meantime, try breaching the caverns and magma sea and seeing what pops up. LFR actually got its first "potion" alcohol in the most recent update. ;)
Spoiler: If you really need to know... (click to show/hide)
I'm putting up a new version. This fixes the bug with bronze spiders and reworks (complete with documentation) the tier two alchemical advancement reaction, as well as making a few very minor balance changes.
As always, please report any issues you may find. It is unlikely that I will get much done in the way of new content this weekend (you'll have to forgive me, it's almost entirely this thing's fault (http://www.guildwars2.com/en/)), but I will be monitoring things and responding to posts as much as possible, and if any glaring issues come up with this new release, I'll be sure to fix those as soon as possible.
Post by: wyrdness on April 27, 2012, 12:33:24 pm
I'm also just starting my exploration in to shrines and temples. I'm quite glad I'm sitting on a huge chunk of galena now. More silver for the silver gods! Or something like that. :D
Post by: Pan on April 27, 2012, 06:44:05 pm
Not a gameplay bug, but I have noticed that the graphics for the meowkin caravan guards seem to be offset by a few pixels so they get cut off on the right and a random arm appears on the left. I've learnt to ignore it, but I thought I should share. Also, oddly, my meowkin emissary always seems to be a meowkin child but I don't think that's a bug as much as just how the game does things.
I have the same issue.
Post by: azrael300 on April 27, 2012, 08:10:54 pm
i am just giving ideas AND I AM NOT commanding you what to do like a commander.
and i am trying to HELP.
1) books
2) paper
3) ink
4) the pencil
5) customizable civilization
6)the computer
7)the computer virus
8)the car(i don't think it would help much though ... unless it goes up and down instead of left right forward backward)
9)the train(i dont think it would help much though)
10)some type of transportation ...
11)bombs
12) bomb types like mining bombs or trap bombs
13)the musket
14)the flintlock
15)gunpowder
16)uranium power(nuclear or some type of known alternative to it....im just trying to help)
17)powder
18)plastic
19)modern chemical lab
20) modern research lab
21)modern (name) lab
22)asteroid impacts (so rare i dont think it would happen in your fortress in a million years... unless its the size of mount everest)
23)tini asteroids that fall on the ground because there so small..... and can only be found by using water and a magnet and the
asteroid may atract to the magnet.
24)cannons
25)pumpcin cannons (pumpkin chumpkin)
26)anoying creatures that make your dwarfs go mad...
27)jet packs
28)magnets
29)the modern bullet
30)the middle aged bullet (has a bulge at the end but not a contaner behind it that contains the powder ... or to anything else you want)
31)the primitive bullet ... a lead ball
32)the pully
33)buildings
34)concreat
35)cement
36)acid rain (the ones caused by rain cleaning up the pollution... i think....)
37)dont get confused with the one above...literaly acid rain.
38)microphone
39)pda
40)the telescope
41)stuffed toys
42)the television(.... to make dwarfs happy ..... and stop the prisoners from breaking chains because of moving pictures that he never seen in his life....)
43)modern guns and bullet containers ...
44)nukes ..... (ill never let you take this fortress alive ..... BOOOM)
45)soft beds and pillows
46)nasa (for maps.... that you can sell to primitive civilizations and make them think your dwarfs are the best allies they will ever have.... i dont know you chose im not the one commanding im just giving ideas)
47)hovering defending turrets
48)some think that can damage a city or town of a nearby civilization
49) and world map ..... so you can nuke citys and towns to weaken the civilizations.... or anything else you want .... i dont know you chose if you want to add it not me... their just ideas
50)mining machines
51)different machines that help dwarfs like cleaning choping wood ... or just stuff thats funny.
52) .... atomic coliders....
53) physics lab.
54) .... will this help you for now?
remember there just ideas you can dicide to add or not to add if you like and change them to whatever you like..... dude who currently updates this mod.
Post by: narhiril on April 27, 2012, 10:22:08 pm
Not a gameplay bug, but I have noticed that the graphics for the meowkin caravan guards seem to be offset by a few pixels so they get cut off on the right and a random arm appears on the left. I've learnt to ignore it, but I thought I should share. Also, oddly, my meowkin emissary always seems to be a meowkin child but I don't think that's a bug as much as just how the game does things.
I have the same issue.
Thanks guys, I think I found the issue here. When I added the graphic for intermediaries, the canvas got skewed from 16 pixels high to 17. The game is skewing the image to fit within the bounds it was given in the graphics file (16x16).
Change this in graphics_lfr_custom.txt for a temporary fix...
Code: [Select]
[TILE_PAGE:MEOWKIN]
[FILE:lfr_meowkin.png]
[TILE_DIM:16:16]
[PAGE_DIM:16:1]
...to...
Code: [Select]
[TILE_PAGE:MEOWKIN]
[FILE:lfr_meowkin.png]
[TILE_DIM:16:17]
[PAGE_DIM:16:1]
Let me know if that fixes the issue. No new world is required for this change to take effect.
Post by: Pan on April 27, 2012, 11:23:43 pm
idea list... but before that i seem to be very unlucky and most people sort of understand but add other stuff that i did not say... type.
i am just giving ideas AND I AM NOT commanding you what to do like a commander.
and i am trying to HELP.
1) books
2) paper
3) ink
4) the pencil
5) customizable civilization
6)the computer
7)the computer virus
8)the car(i don't think it would help much though ... unless it goes up and down instead of left right forward backward)
9)the train(i dont think it would help much though)
10)some type of transportation ...
11)bombs
12) bomb types like mining bombs or trap bombs
13)the musket
14)the flintlock
15)gunpowder
16)uranium power(nuclear or some type of known alternative to it....im just trying to help)
17)powder
18)plastic
19)modern chemical lab
20) modern research lab
21)modern (name) lab
22)asteroid impacts (so rare i dont think it would happen in your fortress in a million years... unless its the size of mount everest)
23)tini asteroids that fall on the ground because there so small..... and can only be found by using water and a magnet and the
asteroid may atract to the magnet.
24)cannons
25)pumpcin cannons (pumpkin chumpkin)
26)anoying creatures that make your dwarfs go mad...
27)jet packs
28)magnets
29)the modern bullet
30)the middle aged bullet (has a bulge at the end but not a contaner behind it that contains the powder ... or to anything else you want)
31)the primitive bullet ... a lead ball
32)the pully
33)buildings
34)concreat
35)cement
36)acid rain (the ones caused by rain cleaning up the pollution... i think....)
37)dont get confused with the one above...literaly acid rain.
38)microphone
39)pda
40)the telescope
41)stuffed toys
42)the television(.... to make dwarfs happy ..... and stop the prisoners from breaking chains because of moving pictures that he never seen in his life....)
43)modern guns and bullet containers ...
44)nukes ..... (ill never let you take this fortress alive ..... BOOOM)
45)soft beds and pillows
46)nasa (for maps.... that you can sell to primitive civilizations and make them think your dwarfs are the best allies they will ever have.... i dont know you chose im not the one commanding im just giving ideas)
47)hovering defending turrets
48)some think that can damage a city or town of a nearby civilization
49) and world map ..... so you can nuke citys and towns to weaken the civilizations.... or anything else you want .... i dont know you chose if you want to add it not me... their just ideas
50)mining machines
51)different machines that help dwarfs like cleaning choping wood ... or just stuff thats funny.
52) .... atomic coliders....
53) physics lab.
54) .... will this help you for now?
remember there just ideas you can dicide to add or not to add if you like and change them to whatever you like..... dude who currently updates this mod.
Well, what he makes up for the lack of DF modding knowledge, he certainly overcommits in enthusiasm. Maybe you should read up some modding guides and the like, azrael.
Post by: Jeoshua on April 28, 2012, 12:18:03 am
Except Acid Rain. That could be done and probably should be done. Just the !!FUN!! kind tho.
Post by: azrael300 on April 28, 2012, 12:44:42 am
idea list... but before that i seem to be very unlucky and most people sort of understand but add other stuff that i did not say... type.
i am just giving ideas AND I AM NOT commanding you what to do like a commander.
and i am trying to HELP.
1) books
2) paper
3) ink
4) the pencil
5) customizable civilization
6)the computer
7)the computer virus
8)the car(i don't think it would help much though ... unless it goes up and down instead of left right forward backward)
9)the train(i dont think it would help much though)
10)some type of transportation ...
11)bombs
12) bomb types like mining bombs or trap bombs
13)the musket
14)the flintlock
15)gunpowder
16)uranium power(nuclear or some type of known alternative to it....im just trying to help)
17)powder
18)plastic
19)modern chemical lab
20) modern research lab
21)modern (name) lab
22)asteroid impacts (so rare i dont think it would happen in your fortress in a million years... unless its the size of mount everest)
23)tini asteroids that fall on the ground because there so small..... and can only be found by using water and a magnet and the
asteroid may atract to the magnet.
24)cannons
25)pumpcin cannons (pumpkin chumpkin)
26)anoying creatures that make your dwarfs go mad...
27)jet packs
28)magnets
29)the modern bullet
30)the middle aged bullet (has a bulge at the end but not a contaner behind it that contains the powder ... or to anything else you want)
31)the primitive bullet ... a lead ball
32)the pully
33)buildings
34)concreat
35)cement
36)acid rain (the ones caused by rain cleaning up the pollution... i think....)
37)dont get confused with the one above...literaly acid rain.
38)microphone
39)pda
40)the telescope
41)stuffed toys
42)the television(.... to make dwarfs happy ..... and stop the prisoners from breaking chains because of moving pictures that he never seen in his life....)
43)modern guns and bullet containers ...
44)nukes ..... (ill never let you take this fortress alive ..... BOOOM)
45)soft beds and pillows
46)nasa (for maps.... that you can sell to primitive civilizations and make them think your dwarfs are the best allies they will ever have.... i dont know you chose im not the one commanding im just giving ideas)
47)hovering defending turrets
48)some think that can damage a city or town of a nearby civilization
49) and world map ..... so you can nuke citys and towns to weaken the civilizations.... or anything else you want .... i dont know you chose if you want to add it not me... their just ideas
50)mining machines
51)different machines that help dwarfs like cleaning choping wood ... or just stuff thats funny.
52) .... atomic coliders....
53) physics lab.
54) .... will this help you for now?
remember there just ideas you can dicide to add or not to add if you like and change them to whatever you like..... dude who currently updates this mod.
Well, what he makes up for the lack of DF modding knowledge, he certainly overcommits in enthusiasm. Maybe you should read up some modding guides and the like, azrael.
He's an ELF! Burn him, before he contaminates the children with his environmental awareness!
BAN who ever said that! ... admin: why?
because he assaulted me with COMEDY! oh the DWARFMANITY!
thx for making my day
Post by: azrael300 on April 28, 2012, 12:46:54 am
Wow Az. Show some focus. None of that stuff even seems like it might fit into the game in any real, tangible way...
Except Acid Rain. That could be done and probably should be done. Just the !!FUN!! kind tho.
what about apple creatures of doom
Post by: Putnam on April 28, 2012, 01:23:48 am
Wow Az. Show some focus. None of that stuff even seems like it might fit into the game in any real, tangible way...
Except Acid Rain. That could be done and probably should be done. Just the !!FUN!! kind tho.
It fits perfectly in the mod that I'm working on >:)
Post by: Dohon on April 28, 2012, 03:15:51 am
Post by: Pan on April 28, 2012, 05:04:47 am
After reading azrael300's list, a question popped up in my mind. What is your stance on gunpowder and primitive guns, narhiril? Right now, Dwarves are pretty mechanically advanced (springs, moving parts, mechanical armour even), so, guns wouldn't be too farfetched. And it would seem to be a loud, smelly, smokey yet Dwarven counter to the Voidwalkers projectile cannons. To my eyes at least. But then again, I always imagine Dwarves to be short, dour and stocky fellows, clad in masterwork armour, who grumble in their beards as they take aim at a rushing throng of grobbi and then release a thundering salvo of gunpowder-propelled oversized musket balls.
Glorious. I am thinking of fricking Warhammer here, except it's the heavily armored warriors of Khorne with the big ass guns.
Although bullets don't tend to take a limb off. They just blast you full of holes. Not even shotguns shoot arms off. Void projectors can.
By the way, Narhiril, what did you think of my suggestions for the paragon temples to allow a dwarf a new body? Veterans with voidwalkers and bog trolls always have motor nerves severed, or limbs chopped off. I like my veterans for storyline purposes. Just make the reaction expensive. Actually, I don't know why the ritual reactions are all so cheap right now. If turning a normal man takes an aluminum bar and some cyrstals, or some iron bars and fuel, then I'd imagine the entire world to be ritual dwarves. I, for one, find emberlight costs merely makes them all the more real, and it controls me from turning just about everyone into an emberlight. But author and popular opinion comes first, of course.
Post by: azrael300 on April 28, 2012, 11:38:48 am
Post by: wyrdness on April 28, 2012, 01:53:05 pm
(http://wyrdness.magatsu.net/df/offsetmeowkin.png)
Post by: azrael300 on April 28, 2012, 02:03:27 pm
Post by: Lewa263 on April 28, 2012, 02:08:48 pm
Post by: narhiril on April 28, 2012, 02:26:11 pm
I made the changes to my files and now the meowkin emissary isn't a child anymore, but the caravan guards are still cut off in the middle for some reason. At least the lads/ maidens/ traders seem to look fine. Not that it really matters to me, I'm a crochety old dwarf lord and I tend to keep my doors shut against sieges and caravans alike.
(http://wyrdness.magatsu.net/df/offsetmeowkin.png)
Thanks for the screenshot, that helps a lot. If you don't mind, can you also post the contents of your graphics_lfr_custom file?
Post by: wyrdness on April 28, 2012, 03:47:42 pm
Thanks for the screenshot, that helps a lot. If you don't mind, can you also post the contents of your graphics_lfr_custom file?
Err, yeah, I imagine that would be more useful!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Pan on April 29, 2012, 04:14:40 am
Alright, I downloaded this a few days ago and I am liking it. But I feel I sort of trapped by the tech tree and rituals. The results are randomized on many of the reactions involved, and the only way to know what results I got seems to be constantly watching the workshops and checking the items within after the dwarf is finished. Is there a better way to determine this? Some way to make the game announce results, maybe?
I believe narhiril is planning a tech tree overhaul. Look back couple pages, I believe.
Post by: simonthedwarf on April 29, 2012, 11:45:11 am
Post by: Jilladilla on April 29, 2012, 12:50:38 pm
"Kas Leadbreached the Impervious Controller was a colossus bronze born in -190 and died in 80 (Struck) by the kitty kitty meow meow Champignon Riddlewheat, in a duel."
I swear those cats use cave-in traps...
Post by: simonthedwarf on April 29, 2012, 01:15:28 pm
okay
Post by: Putnam on April 29, 2012, 01:58:38 pm
Post by: Stirk on April 29, 2012, 02:29:05 pm
In any way, they get my vote on the top...
Post by: Pan on April 29, 2012, 02:35:49 pm
Narhiril, what would the next LFR version be about?
Post by: Speakafreak22 on April 29, 2012, 11:27:52 pm
Post by: Pan on April 30, 2012, 12:10:59 am
Post by: narhiril on April 30, 2012, 10:41:17 am
Thanks for the screenshot, that helps a lot. If you don't mind, can you also post the contents of your graphics_lfr_custom file?
Err, yeah, I imagine that would be more useful!Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I still don't really know what's wrong, so I'm just going to post one that works for you.
http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=6235
Overwrite both the file and the old image - I suspect the problem is coming from messed up image dimensions.
Alright, I downloaded this a few days ago and I am liking it. But I feel I sort of trapped by the tech tree and rituals. The results are randomized on many of the reactions involved, and the only way to know what results I got seems to be constantly watching the workshops and checking the items within after the dwarf is finished. Is there a better way to determine this? Some way to make the game announce results, maybe?
I wish I could get the game to announce them, but unfortunately, that isn't the case. It probably isn't worth watching every single alchemical experiment and such (I certainly don't). Ritual transformations are announced because the game announces creature transformations. Other than the research for the weapon upgrades, there isn't much that you actively need to watch for. For unlocking the tech advances, just get some few experiments going (ideally with !!MAGMA!!), set the research reaction on repeat, and then check back later to see what you got. Since none of the advancement slabs have a material, they remain in the workshop until otherwise disposed of (this is intentional).
Making the graphics compatible for other tilesets other than Ironhand is something Narhiril will probably work on in the future. I like Mayday too, but there isn't any for now. You could try to install this atop a mayday df. That would result in some tiles being weird (like winding spires looking like vermin) and ores looking like kobolds such. But if you can ignore these things, it should be Mayday - mostly.
For those of you who are curious, this is what graphics support looks like...
1) Changing all of the mineral tiles manually.
2) Changing all of the plant tiles manually.
3) Re-painting every stage of every workshop manually.
4) Maintaining these changed files separately from the ironhand and ascii versions.
These are all things I'm willing to do, but it's a lot of (pretty mundane) work. I can't give you any sort of estimated time frame on that, but it is likely that I will do support for Phoebus' set before Mayday's, seeing as a lot more people have been badgering me about that. It's planned, yes, but it might be a little while before I get around to it.
After reading azrael300's list, a question popped up in my mind. What is your stance on gunpowder and primitive guns, narhiril? Right now, Dwarves are pretty mechanically advanced (springs, moving parts, mechanical armour even), so, guns wouldn't be too farfetched. And it would seem to be a loud, smelly, smokey yet Dwarven counter to the Voidwalkers projectile cannons. To my eyes at least. But then again, I always imagine Dwarves to be short, dour and stocky fellows, clad in masterwork armour, who grumble in their beards as they take aim at a rushing throng of grobbi and then release a thundering salvo of gunpowder-propelled oversized musket balls.
Glorious. I am thinking of fricking Warhammer here, except it's the heavily armored warriors of Khorne with the big ass guns.
Although bullets don't tend to take a limb off. They just blast you full of holes. Not even shotguns shoot arms off. Void projectors can.
By the way, Narhiril, what did you think of my suggestions for the paragon temples to allow a dwarf a new body? Veterans with voidwalkers and bog trolls always have motor nerves severed, or limbs chopped off. I like my veterans for storyline purposes. Just make the reaction expensive. Actually, I don't know why the ritual reactions are all so cheap right now. If turning a normal man takes an aluminum bar and some cyrstals, or some iron bars and fuel, then I'd imagine the entire world to be ritual dwarves. I, for one, find emberlight costs merely makes them all the more real, and it controls me from turning just about everyone into an emberlight. But author and popular opinion comes first, of course.
Let me address these in order.
First of all, primitive gunpowder is something that I was initially more opposed to than I am now. The "hold up," of sorts, has been that small, blunt objects travelling at high speeds don't tend to cause the kinds of wounds in game that you would normally associate with gunshots - either they lack the penetrating power to puncture even the weakest armor, or they hit with so much force that instead of creating an entry wound, the literally just blow the target backwards. The magnetic dart launcher was my attempt at creating a more flavorful experimental ranged weapon (ironically, it takes a higher level of technology than basic firearms would, but I took some artistic liberties). I am not ruling out gunpowder, but I need to work through some issues before I can make it work properly. When custom siege weapons become possible (way down the DF road), I plan to add cannons.
Second, healing. I do plan to implement a reaction to heal a dwarf completely, but I am saving it for the Cathedral of Visthel, which I haven't worked up to yet. It's coming.
Third, and finally, cost of ritual units. Let me hit these one at a time...
----
Emberlights currently cost 10 coal, 2 ash, 1 wood, and 2 iron bars. The major reason that this was reduced from before was because of the extreme length of time it took for a dwarf to assemble the necessary reagents (33 in all, originally). I feel like this adequately restricts emberlights to larger fortresses that have either built magma workshops (and, thus, have earned the favor of the god of fire) which have fuel to spare, or fortresses which are swimming in flammable materials. If you're not sitting on a mountain of coal or a magma pipe, ten fuel can be pretty daunting, especially because the reaction only seems to work about a third of the time - I'm still mad about this, but whatever, can't do anything about it. Even optimistically assuming that one in two reactions works out, that's an average cost per emberlight of 20 fuel plus some ash, wood, and iron. If you're not running magma forges, that's pretty steep.
Wavebreakers take 5 stone, 3 silver bars, and 6 cobalt bars. Again, assume a 50% success ratio. Cobalt is pretty hard to come by until you get the experimental materials workshop going, so this restricts wavebreakers to fortresses that have either imported the material or advanced far enough to make it themselves. Even then, 12 cobalt bars is almost enough to make ammunition for an entire dart launcher squad, and you're paying that, on average, per unit... plus silver.
Zephyrs take three raw green glass gems and an aluminum bar (aluminum, being light, seemed a natural choice for the wind goddess). Aluminum is very, very rare - you're basically forced to rely on imports and the prayer for ritual metals to get any sort of sizable quantity of it. After five years, my (test) fortress has built up about 15 of them. Zephyrs are a little bit easier to make than stonekin, and I might take down the probability of getting an aluminum bar from the prayer and see what that does.
Stonekin cost a silver bar and a rough mountain heart. Mountain hearts are really, really rare, and you can't import rough ones. After five years with the prayer for ritual gems on repeat, I have six of them. That seems pretty fair, in my opinion.
Tempests cost five gold bars. From a cost standpoint, these are probably the easiest to get due to the alchemy reactions to produce gold, but you should take note that turning all of your soldiers into tempests is a really, really bad idea. Tempests take an initial hit to strength and toughness, and also have NO_PHYS_ATT_GAIN, but not NO_PHYS_ATT_RUST - so their physical strength will slowly wither away over years of using their power, making them extremely poor choices for front line troops. In short, you can make a lot of them, but you won't want a lot of them, as they make poor workers and poorer soldiers. It's only worth having one or two around for the combo and stun abilities, preferably stationed on a ranged weapon squad where their frail frames are less vulnerable to being snapped in half by bog trolls.
I appreciate your concern over the cost of ritual units, and I acknowledge that the fine art of balance is never quite finished, but I think the current ritual units are pretty decent from a cost/benefit perspective. Tempests and zephyrs are the most likely to see some tweaks in the future.
I must confess, some of the reasoning that has gone into this development has been partly because of my own bias. I remember nothing in gaming being more frustrating than throwing a ton of time and effort into something with the possibility of no return, so I designed the cost of the ritual units such that failing a few reactions (even in a row) isn't totally crippling, especially considering that these are the weakest of the ritual units to come. With the next tier of ritual units, costs will be a lot more extreme, but they will be one-time unlocks to produce a reusable ritual item. After you invest the resources to acquire this tool, you can use it as often as you like - the catch being that you never know exactly what is going to happen when you do. You could get that paragon you wanted to be your king for the next milennia, but you could also get any number of other things (permanent bunny transformation, nasty contagion, summoning a demon, etc) that will make you think twice about using the item again. What I like about this is that it encourages players to build temples in remote locations, trying to give themselves a buffer zone between their citizens and any potential disasters, you you'll basically have dwarves going on "pilgrimages" for certain gods within your site. It's going to be fun. :)
Post by: Meph on April 30, 2012, 12:31:56 pm
For alchemy as fuelsource I do use alcohol + oil = 3 coke. This way you need to farm it, slow and workintensive, but endless supply. I did not want to base it on inorganic materials, since the normal bituminous/lignite already does this. (I know they are strictly speaking organic, or once were that)
I hope I find the time to check out your fancy new version one day :)
PS: Boiling tree logs with syndromes and even starting fires after a tree is felled does work as well, without the actual tree boiling away or burning down the area when it grows.
Post by: Pan on April 30, 2012, 08:31:08 pm
Post by: wyrdness on May 01, 2012, 12:58:42 am
Post by: lleu on May 01, 2012, 07:43:43 pm
Post by: Pan on May 01, 2012, 09:03:44 pm
I have an army of dwarves!
We have a jagged crystal dragon.
FUUUUUUUUU-
I just started playing this mod, and I'm not sure if this should be like this, but the full download link with the graphics installed is the 0.18a version, not the recently updated 0.18b you have on the first post. Could you check? The raws seem to be the 0.18b, but I haven't installed them yet, nor can I seem to figure out how.
Damn, new versions are causing quite a bit of downloading problem, aren't they? Wish I could help here, but it's up to Narhiril on this.
Post by: Psilobe on May 02, 2012, 05:29:02 am
Post by: Pan on May 02, 2012, 06:18:16 am
I'm having a little difficulty getting specific squads to train at the new sparring partner and obstacle course, any tips on how to prevent other dwarfs from coming running and using the training equipment?
Assign a manager so you can go to the workshop profile. Assign the specific military dwarves you wish to train on each, so only they will use the training workshop. Same goes for ritual workshops and the like.
Post by: narhiril on May 02, 2012, 10:04:28 am
I am uploading a new version (0.18c) to fix these issues, as well as a few minor quirks in the zinger raws (typo, etc). This version should be completely save-compatible with anything you have from v0.18b.
As always, let me know if there are any problems. Hopefully this is all behind us, and I can move forward to some more exciting developments.
Links for the lazy:
Pre-installed (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=4242)
Raw-only (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=4230)
Post by: Putnam on May 02, 2012, 06:26:56 pm
Post by: Cerepol on May 02, 2012, 10:16:15 pm
Post by: Psilobe on May 03, 2012, 06:06:20 am
I must be doing something wrong, the alchemy lab refuses to work, I changed pretty much every stone from restricted to free use in the economy stone tab but my worker still refuses to do any experiments. I have Coke from smelting lignite so I do have fuel.
Did you give someone the alchemist profession?
Another question: Do you need to set any special professions for the dwarfs to use the sparring partner and dodge course?
Post by: Pan on May 03, 2012, 06:44:11 am
I must be doing something wrong, the alchemy lab refuses to work, I changed pretty much every stone from restricted to free use in the economy stone tab but my worker still refuses to do any experiments. I have Coke from smelting lignite so I do have fuel.
Did you give someone the alchemist profession?
Another question: Do you need to set any special professions for the dwarfs to use the sparring partner and dodge course?
The alchemy labs need 'Alchemy' labor. The sparring partner, dodge course, orrerry and training workshops don't need any labors to be set.
Post by: Psilobe on May 03, 2012, 07:32:05 am
Post by: Pan on May 03, 2012, 09:05:32 am
Post by: Meph on May 03, 2012, 04:32:08 pm
Post by: Cerepol on May 03, 2012, 04:33:21 pm
Post by: Stirk on May 03, 2012, 06:29:42 pm
Quote
There is an alchemist, he just yells that he doesn't have 10 of a non-economic stone.
Well...Does he have access to 10 non-economic rocks? You can check in the same screen you check everything else on, and change some stones on if they are off.
Quote
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
From what I heard they are friendly, not pets. Citation needed.
Post by: Cerepol on May 03, 2012, 07:07:57 pm
Post by: Stirk on May 03, 2012, 07:12:11 pm
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I store all my stone in a dump unforbidden. He has access to nearly 1000 shale and it is allowed(green) in the stone status screen.
Lemme thing for a second. If it is green in the economic stone screen, doesn't that make it an economic stone? Try turning it off and trying again.
Post by: Putnam on May 03, 2012, 09:12:56 pm
QuoteI store all my stone in a dump unforbidden. He has access to nearly 1000 shale and it is allowed(green) in the stone status screen.
Lemme thing for a second. If it is green in the economic stone screen, doesn't that make it an economic stone? Try turning it off and trying again.
Red means it's economic, green means it won't be counted as such.
Post by: Cerepol on May 03, 2012, 09:35:49 pm
Post by: Mithril Leaf on May 03, 2012, 10:55:06 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Pan on May 03, 2012, 10:58:03 pm
Post by: Stirk on May 03, 2012, 11:59:04 pm
Quote
Have we addressed the issue of floating meowkin ambushes?
Issue? That is not a feature. That is !!SCIENCE!!
We are getting close to discovering how Meokins can do so amazingly in worldgen. Now that we know they can send flying ones, that brings some extra information into our theories.
Now I have several guess as to what is happening:
1. Meokins have a trained special forces that are ninjas.
2. Meokins have super-saiyan powers when angered
3. Meokin often are launched off a distant-planet to Earth. They are weak against an obscure metal and bulletproof.
We need more information! Keep the fort going!
Post by: wyrdness on May 04, 2012, 01:42:27 am
1. Meokins have a trained special forces that are ninjas.
2. Meokins have super-saiyan powers when angered
3. Meokin often are launched off a distant-planet to Earth. They are weak against an obscure metal and bulletproof.
4. All of the above!
Post by: Psilobe on May 04, 2012, 05:39:15 am
Post by: Pan on May 04, 2012, 06:32:35 am
I think shes a werecreature, on a serious note. In any case, don't let her about easily. She might just ruin your day.
Post by: narhiril on May 04, 2012, 09:58:50 am
I had a little look at your way of doing the spiders. You do drop a limb, animate it, kill it, and transform the corpse into the spider, being a friendly unit ? I didnt check ingame, but that is how it looks to me in textform. Just wanted to ask if it is still friendly, or a tame pet in the end.
Still "friendly," unfortunately.
So, what's happening, Narhiril?
This week and next week are not going to be too productive because of final exams. After that, I hope to get one more release in before my surgery on June 5th, which will take me out of commission for a few days. After that, it's clear sailing. :)
Post by: Meph on May 04, 2012, 03:04:33 pm
Quote
Still "friendly," unfortunately.
Thanks. I continue to try more science with castes this week, maybe I get something. And good luck with your exams. I also send you a little something in a PM, feedback is welcome. :)
Post by: lleu on May 05, 2012, 09:29:43 am
Post by: Pan on May 05, 2012, 10:15:43 am
Post by: lleu on May 05, 2012, 10:37:18 am
Post by: Putnam on May 05, 2012, 10:52:21 am
Ok, sweet. I had been thinking about installing it, but my fortress was running very well, and I didn't want to remake. But a concurrent shedim seige and FUN involving piping magma destroyed it. Sooo, time to install FD!
You can't install FD after the world is already generated.
Post by: Stirk on May 05, 2012, 11:43:50 am
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You can't install FD after the world is already generated.
He can, but he would have to make a new world.
Post by: Stirk on May 05, 2012, 11:52:51 am
Post by: Putnam on May 05, 2012, 12:54:21 pm
I just downloaded raws only, and it seems that it doesn't have any of the necessary components to actually work. It has the lore, optional components, and graphics, but no raws ironically.
Did you look in the LFR_ASCII folder?
Post by: Stirk on May 05, 2012, 01:15:34 pm
Quote
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Wow. I am tired today. I am going to go take a nap and see if I am capable of higher functions when I wake up.
Thanks. Nap time....
Post by: Stirk on May 05, 2012, 05:20:25 pm
Post by: Putnam on May 05, 2012, 06:18:06 pm
Why is it that wooden crude javelins are so weak against armor? My hunters use them to great effect, bones pretty much stand no chance against them and they can take a grizzly down in one hit. But when a goblin warrior comes around, the valiant hunters take a few pop shots as he runs away, and the wooden javelins just bounce off the troll fur shirt. Why is it that something so effective without armor is completely stopped by a thin shirt?
It's troll fur and you don't know how thin it is
Post by: Stirk on May 05, 2012, 06:23:10 pm
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It's troll fur and you don't know how thin it is
Well it will work against actual trolls, hair and all. But apparently goblins put a layer of Kevlar behind every armor piece they make.
Post by: Pan on May 05, 2012, 11:16:41 pm
Narhiril I hope your surgery goes well, and your exams too. At least you are revising and preparing yourself for it, while I am surfing the bay12forums, reddit and 9gag. :'(
About those bug fixes you considered, such as the nails and such, here are some more that I've noticed:
1. Serrated discs buying out entire caravans.
2. Cooking booze and seeds. As if the huge output of food from the tiny farm dug at the corner of the room wasn't already feeding the entire fort and more already...
3. Certain animals dying from grazing, like elephants and such. Not sure if you already fixed this one.
4. Egg laying grazers dying in their nest boxes. Make elk birds graze less, I guess?
And probably more.
Also, anyone else notice any cannon beetles around? They sound like fantastic war beasts, although I still haven't acquired one...
Post by: Stirk on May 05, 2012, 11:31:04 pm
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Crude javelins were meant only for practice, anyway. I recommend getting broadheads. They one shot everything, which seldom happens for bolts. A marksdwarf used one bolt and cut a lizardman in half. Of course, get them skilled.
I usually just send my gunners hunting with wood, it is not like they where meant to be my fighters. They are just out hunting when an enemy goes by, and they shoot at it, which just bounces off the potato sack they are wearing. For their actual combat, I had prepared a good amount of iron broudheads and piercing, for different kinds of enemies, as well as the fact I am on a volcano with an open roof at the beginning of my fortress allows for me to use the marksmen efficiently. I used iron because I tried using copper once and it was unsatisfactory in performance, steel would be to expensive, so iron it was.
I had tried to equip another guy with a legendary greatbow that my bowyer made in his mood, but the soldier didn't seem to comprehend the whole "arrow" thing. I tried setting him out hunting with his bow and some wooden arrows, but he just grabbed the javelin thrower with the rest of the guys. I then made him get arrows and his bow, but he refused to practice. Eventually I just had to let him go....
Quote
2. Cooking booze and seeds. As if the huge output of food from the tiny farm dug at the corner of the room wasn't already feeding the entire fort and more already...
She has removed that. Not sure about the rest. Well drinks removed at least.
*EDIT*
Interesting voidwalker behavior. A thief had broken in, and rather than run like all the other races do, it went straight to my fortress as usual. My forces where currently scattered after two goblin ambushes that devastated the Nephal caravan that was coming, so the only resistance he met was someone's pet dinosaur who got it's leg taken off in one swipe. Then something interesting happened, the voidwalker managed to get into the inner fortress and started standing still in front of a bed. My champion, who was not in the fight at the moment, finally gathered all his equipment and whacked him with a special metal hammer, and I found it odd that he was just standing there. So of course I looked who's bed it was. It was the expedition leader's, the same room that doubles for the meeting area. Was it some form of misguided diplomatic mission? Did we attack? Was he trying to warn us? Only time will tell...
Post by: Pan on May 06, 2012, 03:56:07 am
I just think of them as infiltrators. When discovered, they do not run, but makes a blind charge into the fortress and do as much chaos as they can.
Post by: RetSpline on May 06, 2012, 04:44:59 am
I do have a few questions/problems, but I'd really like all answers to be a spoiler-free as possible! At least give me a vague summary followed by a [spoiler] block, please.
So, the caverns/magma sea seem a lot deeper than in vanilla. I'm at -69 so far and no sign of either. I am aware that it's possible to just slip by the cavern sections if you hit in the right area, but I've been sending out pretty regular offshoots to gather minerals and I haven't hit anything yet. Should I keep going down or have I probably just missed it and should go back and check again?
Also, my chef just fell unconscious for, as far as I can tell, no reason. I only became aware of it when one of my dwarves gave me a "cancels Give Water: no water source" warning. I'm on a tundra and, as I said, haven't found the caverns yet. About how long do I have before this unconscious dwarf dies without intervention? As far as the cause, only two things of note happened recently, the first caravan arrived and I concluded trading with them, and I just hit some sort of rock called Ancient Vanguard Rubble, including a Precious Artifact. Without revealing too much (it seems to me that there's something really cool involved with this stuff, I haven't mined any out yet for fear of some sort of hidden fun stuff, but I've been excavating around it to explore some) could this be the cause for my chef's illness? I kind of wished I'd embarked with a diagnostician. How good is dabbling doctor at getting information? Is it worth it to just give the task to one of my fishery workers?
A lot of questions, I know, but this seems like the sort of mod to engender this sort of mystery :) thanks in advance for any help. I'm going to set up a savscum at this point, just in case things do go as poorly as I fear.
Post by: Pan on May 06, 2012, 04:58:24 am
I can think of another reason from this mod why, although it's quite unlikely. And I don't want to spoil it. Bring watchers.
The layers should not be affected by the mod either. Probably just your luck.
Doctors don't really tell you if there are any syndromes. They will diagnose so other doctors will fix the patient up. You as the player can usually tell what happened to them. Any syndromes, I believe doctors cannot do anything about it.
Post by: RetSpline on May 06, 2012, 05:04:35 am
Okay, so the only combat at all on the map so far was one of the dogs chained up by my entrance biting the other one on the paw, I guess from overcrowding, but that happened after my cook fell unconscious. I guess this might be that "other reason" you mentioned? I have no idea what you mean by "watchers", though.
edit: Oh, one other thing I forgot to mention. Ever since I arrived at the tundra, it's been, "snowing a bitter snow" near constantly. I am sure every one of my dwarves was outside at some point during this snow (which shows up with a red alert, as opposed to the yellow when it's just regular snowing) but the last time any of them were outside was back in spring, and it's winter now. This bitter snow also shows up as a teal blue on the map, as opposed to the white of regular snow. Could this have caused the unconsciousness, perhaps through some slow-acting illness? If not, what does this bitter snow do? Unless it's something really spectacular and mysterious that can be revealed through normal gameplay, I'm alright with this being completely revealed. I've been wondering almost since I started this fort, and the fact that it seems to have had no effect so far just deepens the mystery.
2x edit combo: Okay so my previously-unconscious cook just organized a party. Time to lock him in a very small room, just in case...
Post by: Pan on May 06, 2012, 05:20:41 am
Wow, that was a fast response! Thanks
Okay, so the only combat at all on the map so far was one of the dogs chained up by my entrance biting the other one on the paw, I guess from overcrowding, but that happened after my cook fell unconscious. I guess this might be that "other reason" you mentioned? I have no idea what you mean by "watchers", though.
Watchers are creatures you can order from home civ. They spot... suspicious individuals. Not vampires, though. Mod related suspicious individuals.
I'm working on some incredibly boring and tedious homework. It refreshes my mind to refresh the daily things I check on... It was pure coincidence. Really.. I HAVE A LIFE DAMMIT!
Post by: Sunday on May 06, 2012, 09:00:21 am
I would guess the "bitter snow" is causing a syndrome, knocking people caught in it unconscious. Be sure to monitor people you know who have been exposed for other symptoms, though hopefully those symptoms won't be deadly.
Post by: Stirk on May 06, 2012, 10:52:28 am
Quote
edit: Oh, one other thing I forgot to mention. Ever since I arrived at the tundra, it's been, "snowing a bitter snow" near constantly. I am sure every one of my dwarves was outside at some point during this snow (which shows up with a red alert, as opposed to the yellow when it's just regular snowing) but the last time any of them were outside was back in spring, and it's winter now. This bitter snow also shows up as a teal blue on the map, as opposed to the white of regular snow. Could this have caused the unconsciousness, perhaps through some slow-acting illness? If not, what does this bitter snow do? Unless it's something really spectacular and mysterious that can be revealed through normal gameplay, I'm alright with this being completely revealed. I've been wondering almost since I started this fort, and the fact that it seems to have had no effect so far just deepens the mystery.
That snow could do it, assuming you are on an evil area. Probably best to stay out of that. This mod does add some weather effects, but that might even be vanilla.
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2x edit combo: Okay so my previously-unconscious cook just organized a party. Time to lock him in a very small room, just in case...
He should be fine, at the very worst it isn't him you need to watch out for.
Quote
So, the caverns/magma sea seem a lot deeper than in vanilla. I'm at -69 so far and no sign of either. I am aware that it's possible to just slip by the cavern sections if you hit in the right area, but I've been sending out pretty regular offshoots to gather minerals and I haven't hit anything yet. Should I keep going down or have I probably just missed it and should go back and check again?
This game doesn't touch that, it is jut random.
Quote
Diplomacy? Warning? That's adorable. ;D
I just think of them as infiltrators. When discovered, they do not run, but makes a blind charge into the fortress and do as much chaos as they can.
He was just standing there, after having fought threw terrifying ancient beasts. Are you saying he did all that...just to stand on the bed of our expedition leader?
Post by: Imp on May 06, 2012, 12:26:39 pm
He was just standing there, after having fought threw terrifying ancient beasts. Are you saying he did all that...just to stand on the bed of our expedition leader?
Yes. He probably had 'thought' he'd gone back into ambush mode, and was waiting to kill your expedition leader or family thereof whenever one of them next entered the room.
On my maps voidwalker theives (individual units) tend to arrive in small groups. Once revealed, they each briefly flee like any other race's thieves do - but instead of continuing to flee off the map within a few steps they then turn around and charge back towards my fortress.
Each one seems to have a different level of direct agressiveness. Some charge for the nearest living friendly critter they spot. Others try to get past such targets, but will turn and fight if attacked.
A very few others, and this seems the weirdest and most wonderful to me, totally ignore being attacked. Their goal seems to be somewhere deep inside my fortress, and nothing else seems to please them, not even defending themselves other than running through a gauntlet of attacking warbeasts as far as they can get.
I've never let one of those inside yet, though I've considered burrowing everydwarf in some sealed off location and letting a revealed determined thief in just to see what it would do. One did force its way in once, but I mobilized almost my entire fortress to go mob it when I saw it had managed to run past the warbeasts, which were distracted with trying to kill two other thieves. It destroyed a single workshop and was heading towards a second by the time the mob surrounded it. It never struck back, either overwhelmed by the huge number of unskilled attacks, or because it was trying to do something else, and the first warbeast to finally catch up bit through its skull.
Post by: Jilladilla on May 06, 2012, 12:31:19 pm
a certain modded race will disagree with it being harmless though...
voidwalkers and bog troll theives tend to try to charge in my forts, i think it's the building destroyer tag they have
Post by: Stirk on May 06, 2012, 12:51:30 pm
Quote
Yes. He probably had 'thought' he'd gone back into ambush mode, and was waiting to kill your expedition leader or family thereof whenever one of them next entered the room.
It is possible, but he busted threw a crowded hallway, into a three square room. Someone would notice, wouldn't they? Did he just think that all the people just forgot about the insane man-bug running past them? I suppose he is still more stealthy than the bog troll thieves... "BOG TROLL THIEF IS ENRAGED! HE IS ENRAGED ABOUT THE HORSE! OH HOW DID YOU FIND ME! I AM A STEALTHY THIEF! RAR!".
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
That would be an interesting experiment, I would try it myself but I am pretty sure my dwarves would mess it up some how. I can't build a wall without two dwarves managing to knock themselves out and drown. And I just dug a whole in the middle of a scorching desert, and one of my miners managed to knock himself out and drown. I mean both managed to knock themselves out and drown.
Quote
voidwalkers and bog troll theives tend to try to charge in my forts, i think it's the building destroyer tag they have
Really? All the bog troll thieves I have seen run away once you find them, after they calm down from their rage. And in my case, the voidwalker didn't actually break anything, and had run past a dozen workshops and several Z-levels just to sit in a bedroom.
Post by: narhiril on May 06, 2012, 03:22:44 pm
I'm going to tell you that vanguard rubble had nothing to do with your chief's unconsciousness. Maybe he got in a fight with an animal that was overcrowded?
I can think of another reason from this mod why, although it's quite unlikely. And I don't want to spoil it. Bring watchers.
The layers should not be affected by the mod either. Probably just your luck.
Doctors don't really tell you if there are any syndromes. They will diagnose so other doctors will fix the patient up. You as the player can usually tell what happened to them. Any syndromes, I believe doctors cannot do anything about it.
A skilled diagnostician will be able to tell you the name of the syndrome. If you see "insidious poison symptoms," you might be in a world of hurt.
the bitter snow is a modded weather found on ANY glacier/tundra biome, completely harmless to your dwarves...
a certain modded race will disagree with it being harmless though...
voidwalkers and bog troll theives tend to try to charge in my forts, i think it's the building destroyer tag they have
Correct and correct again. xD
Sorry guys, it's finals week. Don't expect too much out of me until Friday or so. >.<
Post by: Imp on May 06, 2012, 04:39:42 pm
Sorry guys, it's finals week. Don't expect too much out of me until Friday or so. >.<
We expect you to do awesomely upon your finals! Luck and skill to you, in equal amounts!
Post by: lleu on May 06, 2012, 09:20:51 pm
Note: I also started with a legendary weapon prodigy. Does that mean legendary weapon maker, or weapon user?
Post by: Stirk on May 06, 2012, 09:35:48 pm
Quote
So, on my embark screen for a new fortress, I saw that one of my miners was named "Urist McMiner, Bum" instead of the usual peasant. What does that mean? After the embark, he was called a miner like usual, but he had blowgunner and liar skill. Is this an easter egg of some sort? Also, on my last fortress, I had a child that was able to do alchemy. Not sure if it was a bug, but none of my other kids have ever been able to do that. The fortress was wiped out by a FB directly after breaching the first cavern, so he never grew up. Anyone know how, or why that happened?
Note: I also started with a legendary weapon prodigy. Does that mean legendary weapon maker, or weapon user?
It is a caste, just like the prodigies. The child doing alchemy is probably something you did, do you use dwarf therapist? I usually see child labor when I do mass-skill assigning with DT. The weapon prodigy makes weapons.
Post by: Putnam on May 06, 2012, 11:19:24 pm
Also, that bum is another easter egg caste.
Post by: o_O[WTFace] on May 07, 2012, 01:08:37 am
I would guess that a similar psychological conflict is happening when your "watchers" uncover an "anarchist"
Post by: Imp on May 07, 2012, 01:18:05 am
I think that the child was an alchemy prodigy, and, since the child had a natural skill, they immigrated into the fortress with the ability to do that labor. Probably a bug.
In my fortresses, children who arrived (or were born) with prodigy skills simply had the skill - I never noticed it rust, though that might be lack of watching enough. Just like a child can create an artifact and gain a legendary skill that doesn't get used until they become adults, so too do these prodigies have an amazing skill that won't be used until they are 12.
Post by: Imp on May 07, 2012, 01:23:51 am
[ITEMTHIEF] and [BUILDINGDESTROYER:2] do not play nice together, I believe. ITEMTHEIF compels them to run once discovered, but BUILDINGDEST compels them to go knock over your buildings. Sometimes they run in circles, sometimes they just bluescreen and stand there, sometimes they just charge straight at the nearest target.
I would guess that a similar psychological conflict is happening when your "watchers" uncover an "anarchist"
I can see why you refer to it as 'not playing nice', but to me... it's very nice It's strange, confusing, unpredictable, and thus for me quite enjoyable! And it's made me spend a fair amount of time wondering 'what do they want? What is it that I have that they want so much? Why can't I find what they want so much!' and imagining awesome things lost somewhere in my fortress that I and my dwarves never knew were there, or understood what it was that we have here...
Urist McMechanic: Hey, I made a neat dohickey here. Someone haul it to a bin!
Where it sits and sits and would rust if only that were coded in...
Unbenownst to clueless player and undereducated dwarves, this 'dohickey' unlocks tier 5 stuff and is incredibly rare. But this is not obvious - until you are tier 4 (like the voidwalkers are) - in which case you can sense it from half a world away.
Post by: RetSpline on May 08, 2012, 12:50:06 am
This new one's going very well but, as always, has its complications.
For starters, I actually just had my first dwarf death in a long time. I was mucking about with the battlements on my surface walls, building and destroying walls and floors and fortifications all over the place when all of a sudden a deconstructed rock fell on and crushed my only diagnostician, brewer, appraiser, and leader. This is probably a vanilla thing, but I had no idea that falling items actually did any damage! This is really cool, even though it's kind of crippled me for a while.
I'm also having a bit of an immigrant problem. This is, again, probably a vanilla thing (but I figured I'd just post all of my questions in one spot) but I set my population cap at 35 due to my having an incredibly slow and archaic computer. For a few seasons, I had a stable population right at 35 dwarves, but then a large immigrant wave showed up and put me at 50 dwarves. 51, before my leader died. I do have a lot of children, including an incredibly helpful alchemy prodigy child. Are children not counted in fort population for determining new waves? I've been taking pretty severe FPS hits recently and it's getting very unplayable.
Finally, for an LFR related question: there's absolutely no Orichalcum anywhere on my map (confirmed with DFHack) but the manual mentions other ways to acquire precision tools. Can I expect to find any Orichalcum ore or bars in the next trade caravan? Unfortunately, I discovered this problem after I sent the liaison away so I couldn't ask them to bring me some. Some of the things in the manual seemed to hint towards finding interesting things deep in the caverns, if not precision tools themselves, but I'm kind of reticent to start exploring when my militia is still incredibly untrained. What sorts of things can I expect to find in the caverns, and is that a good place to start looking if I want to start getting into the tech tree?
I mean, this is kind of a moot point since I'm strongly considering making (yet another) new fort at this point, at least to apply the things I've learned more efficiently, but I would still like to know. This whole mod creates this interesting dynamic withing me between my love of mystery and my inherent need to know everything there is to know about the games I play. It is a shame that you can't start with a dwarf trained in Alchemy; is that not a thing that can be modded? The time difference between a dabbling alchemist and a master prodigy child alchemist is staggering and the alchemy experimentation mechanic alone is a really neat part of this mod that I like a lot.
One other problem I've been having that I forgot: ancient vanguard rubble has been showing up in all of my stone stockpiles, even piles that only have, say, lignite in them. There doesn't seem to be a way to disable them. Am I just missing something or is there a workaround here? This is kind of starting to severely impact my coke production pipeline.
Anyways, I can't say enough how much I'm enjoying this mod so far, even though I've barely scratched the surface! It's lots of fun, and I can't wait to keep finding interesting new things.
Post by: lleu on May 08, 2012, 04:07:36 pm
Post by: Pan on May 08, 2012, 05:17:14 pm
Post by: Asra on May 08, 2012, 05:58:59 pm
Post by: lleu on May 08, 2012, 06:37:03 pm
Post by: Stirk on May 08, 2012, 06:52:25 pm
I embarked in the middle of the field by a river, no issues with being able to reach my fort. Is there any other way besides checking in the embark screen to see the neighboring civs? Exporting wealth might be the issue, I didn't get much I wanted in the caverns, so I didn't export much.
Did you find Magma yet? Just set up some magma labs and set them to making gold, then make the gold into something you can export for a ton of money. It can be done without magma, but that uses up a ton of fuel.
You can hit the C key, but that only shows civs who have sent someone to you already.
Post by: Meph on May 08, 2012, 07:55:34 pm
Science for tame/civ member spawning in workshops proved unsuccesful, BUT I noticed something else. The AI of friendly units works, so you can spawn buildings destroyers, guzzlers, thieves, lever-pullers and curious creatures. Could be a use, maybe spawn a "imp of termat" as a sideeffect of a reaction that causes some mischief... or a leprechaun having a 1% chance appearing when gold is smelted.. objects getting possessed by poltergeists and you have a alcohol-drinking barrel. You would have to send you military with a kill order after them. The good thing is that they dont frighten civilians, so people dont overreact to a little imp in the dining room. Might be an option worth exploring. I found that out when spawned a building-destroyer 2 that slowly mangled every workshop I had, with my dwarves just watching.
Post by: Alkhemia on May 09, 2012, 12:49:28 am
Post by: Stirk on May 09, 2012, 03:55:35 pm
Quote
Poor meowkin they keep coming to my fortress just to be lit on fire, silly cats
Angering the Meokins? Not a wise idea. You should see what they do in legends....
Post by: tahujdt on May 09, 2012, 08:06:13 pm
QuotePoor meowkin they keep coming to my fortress just to be lit on fire, silly cats
Angering the Meokins? Not a wise idea. You should see what they do in legends....
Actually, legends combat is semi-independent of dwarf mode combat. Someone once modded bunnies to be a playable race, with cute little bunny picks and bunny-sized armor. The bunnies regularly clobbered bronze colossi in legends, but bunnies fully clad in bunny sized steel armor couldn't kill hardly anything.
Post by: wyrdness on May 10, 2012, 08:57:53 am
Post by: tahujdt on May 10, 2012, 04:23:50 pm
I suddenly want a new npc race of bunnies to come trading to my fort. The thought of tiny bunnies with picks and little miner helmets is adorable. Well, up until they inevitably do something horrible. This is Dwarf Fortress after all.Bunnies with beards...
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Pan on May 12, 2012, 08:36:00 am
Post by: Alkhemia on May 12, 2012, 06:11:20 pm
Change HORN:HORN_FIREIMMUNE_TEMPLATE to HORN_FIREIMMUNE:HORN_FIREIMMUNE_TEMPLATE. The idenifiers need to match.also one in RAKSHASA_ILLUSIONARY_COPY
Post by: Stirk on May 13, 2012, 01:59:31 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
!EDIT!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Meph on May 13, 2012, 06:17:45 pm
Post by: Stirk on May 13, 2012, 08:42:53 pm
Quote
These guys are healers, and the "You have transformed into a will-o-wisp"-thing is narhirils way of resurrection and full healing. You transform for 10 ticks, than come back as your original creature, with full health and all lost limbs attached.
Interesting, so why did my enemy use it on me to heal me? It worked out for them, I guess....
!!EDIT!!
And now I started a new character, another martial artist. His starting weapon? Void walker hurling staff, made of copper to boot. No ammo, just an interesting happening.
Post by: simonthedwarf on May 13, 2012, 11:20:05 pm
Atir Egulkalan has transformed into a dwarven tempest!
Post by: Jilladilla on May 14, 2012, 04:36:50 am
Are babies supposed to be able to be turned into tempests? How is that gonna be useful?
Atir Egulkalan has transformed into a dwarven tempest!
it will still grow up and give what is essentially a free tempest (if the mom was also successfully transformed as well)
Post by: simonthedwarf on May 14, 2012, 05:48:35 am
Post by: Pan on May 14, 2012, 08:13:03 am
Might not be 100% accurate, since I've been studying for exams lately and not playing. Just check around the ritual tree for it. Should be easy now that I pointed you in the right direction.
Post by: narhiril on May 14, 2012, 08:04:35 pm
Really guys, really? Why do I even bother?
---
Finals are done now, so expect some new stuff soon. Like I said, this will likely be the last update for a little while, as I have some pretty major surgery at the beginning of June, and I'm not sure how long that will take me out of commission. Sorry for the relative quiet, guys, it's been the month from hell for me.
Post by: Meph on May 14, 2012, 08:06:54 pm
Quote
"I don't like any of them, and my reasons for bothering to vote in this thread are incomprehensible! - 13 (17.8%)"I voted for this :) Sincerely because I havent seen any of the races ingame. But then again if you include options like this, or pictures of strange blue-footed birds in your polls, you shouldnt be surprised if people on the internet are... tempted.
Really guys, really? Why do I even bother?
Hope your next month will be better :)
Post by: simonthedwarf on May 14, 2012, 08:28:16 pm
Post by: Mithril Leaf on May 14, 2012, 09:06:28 pm
Post by: Pan on May 14, 2012, 10:57:47 pm
Narihil, one of the core rules of the internet is that you must never leave a Option C which is Retarded or Some People will chose this
Haha, and here I thought narhiril was internet savvy. :P
What would this next update before the surgery about?
And if you don't mind me asking, how serious would this surgery be?
Post by: Imp on May 15, 2012, 02:21:08 am
"I don't like any of them, and my reasons for bothering to vote in this thread are incomprehensible! - 13 (17.8%)"
Really guys, really? Why do I even bother?
Because of the overwhelming 82.3% of us who express 'with-it-ness' and sincere enjoyment of your mod, despite our rather varied race of greatest appreciation?
Post by: tahujdt on May 17, 2012, 06:42:56 pm
Quote"I don't like any of them, and my reasons for bothering to vote in this thread are incomprehensible! - 13 (17.8%)"I voted for this :) Sincerely because I havent seen any of the races ingame. But then again if you include options like this, or pictures of strange blue-footed birds in your polls, you shouldnt be surprised if people on the internet are... tempted.
Really guys, really? Why do I even bother?
Hope your next month will be better :)
I voted for this too...
Post by: narhiril on May 18, 2012, 02:35:57 am
Narihil, one of the core rules of the internet is that you must never leave a Option C which is Retarded or Some People will chose this
Haha, and here I thought narhiril was internet savvy. :P
What would this next update before the surgery about?
And if you don't mind me asking, how serious would this surgery be?
Sorry for the delay, guys. It's pretty invasive - I'm going to be under for ~6 hours. Fortunately, recovery is supposed to be pretty quick, so I can get back to modding. I wish I had more exciting news than that, but things have been really hectic in my real life over the past few weeks. I'm still shooting to get one more update out before I leave for the hospital on the 4th.
Post by: SalmonGod on May 18, 2012, 03:16:08 am
Post by: Pan on May 18, 2012, 10:11:50 am
I hope the procedure goes well.
Post by: Pan on May 19, 2012, 09:37:35 am
Post by: TehNoob on May 22, 2012, 05:25:08 am
Post by: Pan on May 22, 2012, 07:03:40 am
Post by: ctharvey on May 22, 2012, 02:58:43 pm
"I don't like any of them, and my reasons for bothering to vote in this thread are incomprehensible! - 13 (17.8%)"
Really guys, really? Why do I even bother?
---
Finals are done now, so expect some new stuff soon. Like I said, this will likely be the last update for a little while, as I have some pretty major surgery at the beginning of June, and I'm not sure how long that will take me out of commission. Sorry for the relative quiet, guys, it's been the month from hell for me.
Since I know from personal experience how hard it can be to feel valued for providing for a community... http://minederp.com (http://minederp.com) I wanted you to know I appreciate this mod and always look for it first when a new dwarf fortress update comes out.
Thanks for your hard work!
Post by: SalmonGod on May 22, 2012, 03:01:36 pm
Take your time, though. I understand those rough periods.
Post by: narhiril on May 22, 2012, 10:55:21 pm
Post by: Putnam on May 22, 2012, 11:30:27 pm
[TOOL:ITEM_TOOL_WHEELBARROW]
[TOOL:ITEM_TOOL_MINECART]
However, that would only go for the raw-only release; you'll have to merge the 34.08 color and density changes for full compatibility.
Post by: Pan on May 23, 2012, 12:25:45 am
I just want you guys to know that I haven't given up on this mod or anything - far from it. I've been hard at work these last couple of days trying to catch up with all of the new DF features, and trying to parse what features of the mod might need tweaking. LFR's wheelbarrows, for example, are probably either going to need an overhaul or complete removal due to their new official counterparts. This next release might be just catching up to the latest DF release, but I am still optimistic that I can get a few new features done and released before June 5th.
Who thought the mod's dead? Burn that heretic!
Hey, LFR's been on the front page for over a year. I think occasionally slipping into the 2nd or 3rd, or the author taking a break is quite natural. In fact, I've always thought Narhiril has always been a bit too attentive to the mod. I've never seen her take a break. :P
Post by: simonthedwarf on May 23, 2012, 10:01:31 am
I just find that tech progression can be very slow and random sometimes :(
I've never seen hint of a rainbow crystal/block stone thing for instance.
Post by: Stirk on May 23, 2012, 03:46:30 pm
Quote
I've never seen hint of a rainbow crystal/block stone thing for instance.
What have you been doing? You have to
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: simonthedwarf on May 23, 2012, 07:56:00 pm
Post by: maki32 on May 24, 2012, 04:20:15 am
Burn the elves who claim the mod is dead. LFR is better than vanilla, and to me, slightly better than masterwork.
I just find that tech progression can be very slow and random sometimes :(
I've never seen hint of a rainbow crystal/block stone thing for instance.
I want to try this mod, you say it's better than masterwork, why you think that? How random is the alchemist system and progression? I read there's a good amount of hats, it's true? I'm a fan of hats (TF2 rocks!)
Thank you!
Post by: Pan on May 24, 2012, 05:15:14 am
(TF2 rocks!)
True that. Do I happen to be in the presence of a fellow scout? Or you one of those easy meat campers?
Masterwork is cool, but the races it suggests are rather nonsensical such as creepers, and some of the features seem to be a bit weird (although brilliantly done, such as the concubines). LFR feels a tad more serious, although I'm still not a big fan of the cat people. I still like Masterwork though, just not as much as LFR.
Post by: maki32 on May 24, 2012, 05:19:59 am
I see LFR it's more technological maybe? I saw screenshots of algorithms and such things that sounds technological and crazy! How works the tier? You develop it randomly?
Post by: SalmonGod on May 24, 2012, 05:35:53 am
Post by: Pan on May 24, 2012, 06:30:05 am
I love LFR because it does stuff that not only adds content, but adds depth to gameplay. More importantly, it does so with a cohesive vision, rather than a shotgun approach.
Ah, he speaks my mind.
Post by: maki32 on May 25, 2012, 12:02:51 am
I hope narhiril release a version with 34.10!
Post by: Putnam on May 25, 2012, 12:04:32 am
Post by: SalmonGod on May 25, 2012, 03:11:24 am
I've been thinking about it all day, and don't know how I could do this differently. I just had the thought that perhaps some modding would be appropriate here. Would it be possible to mod in very small remote detonations for this purpose? I really don't know much about modding, but I know from watching this thread that a lot of the more interesting tricks involve temporarily spawning entities to produce an effect and then disappear. Perhaps you could do something like make a building next to the wall you want to remotely destroy, point it towards that wall when you build it, and when you pull the lever it destroys itself and spawns a creature that lives just long enough to mine out that tile?
Post by: Stirk on May 25, 2012, 05:18:43 pm
So I built a magma cistern today, and lost a dwarf. Last time I did this, the magma flow was easily slow enough that the miner could remove that last tile and then have plenty of time to back away. This time the stuff spilled out so fast, it flooded the room with steam and the miner didn't get to take a single step before melting.
I've been thinking about it all day, and don't know how I could do this differently. I just had the thought that perhaps some modding would be appropriate here. Would it be possible to mod in very small remote detonations for this purpose? I really don't know much about modding, but I know from watching this thread that a lot of the more interesting tricks involve temporarily spawning entities to produce an effect and then disappear. Perhaps you could do something like make a building next to the wall you want to remotely destroy, point it towards that wall when you build it, and when you pull the lever it destroys itself and spawns a creature that lives just long enough to mine out that tile?
I don't actually think that that is possible. This mod has several other ways to break the wall, but it was really just poor planning on your part probably. I suggest baptizing your minors in fire before sending them off to the magma.
Doing something like making the path more than one square wide would help him run.
Post by: Jilladilla on May 25, 2012, 06:49:51 pm
Post by: narhiril on May 25, 2012, 09:56:16 pm
Are the tech tree randomized? How can I start to investigate? I tried to do a chemical expermient, and then study the results but only makes a bit of smoke and i didn't see any alert... How does it mean?
I hope narhiril release a version with 34.10!
What's holding this up right now is graphics - I'm trying to find the best solution to mine cart and tile graphics issues, and I haven't yet hit on the solution I'm looking for yet.
Can't find any mitrhil - and btw regarding the perform first sacrifice to kogut - exactly how many overgrown pedestals, candelabra of conquest and enormous goblet do I need? I have 3 items "consecrated" pool stuffs but no magical fish food, and I got several of the required items in my stocks..
You need one enormous gold goblet, one silver candelabra, and one overgrown pedestal.
Post by: Pan on May 26, 2012, 06:15:02 am
Post by: simonthedwarf on May 26, 2012, 01:36:57 pm
Are the tech tree randomized? How can I start to investigate? I tried to do a chemical expermient, and then study the results but only makes a bit of smoke and i didn't see any alert... How does it mean?
I hope narhiril release a version with 34.10!
What's holding this up right now is graphics - I'm trying to find the best solution to mine cart and tile graphics issues, and I haven't yet hit on the solution I'm looking for yet.Can't find any mitrhil - and btw regarding the perform first sacrifice to kogut - exactly how many overgrown pedestals, candelabra of conquest and enormous goblet do I need? I have 3 items "consecrated" pool stuffs but no magical fish food, and I got several of the required items in my stocks..
You need one enormous gold goblet, one silver candelabra, and one overgrown pedestal.
have you considered / is it possible to list requirement item multiples exactly in the job description? instead of just another "s" at the end, where this applies. i suppose theres a technical limitation somewhere.
Post by: Pan on May 28, 2012, 07:22:38 am
In the meantime, I recently read that cavern races can now siege! Hurrah! Any plans for creating something for the earth to strike back?
Post by: simonthedwarf on May 28, 2012, 09:28:56 am
Post by: Demiurge on May 28, 2012, 09:34:54 am
So I built a magma cistern today, and lost a dwarf. Last time I did this, the magma flow was easily slow enough that the miner could remove that last tile and then have plenty of time to back away. This time the stuff spilled out so fast, it flooded the room with steam and the miner didn't get to take a single step before melting.
I've been thinking about it all day, and don't know how I could do this differently. I just had the thought that perhaps some modding would be appropriate here. Would it be possible to mod in very small remote detonations for this purpose? I really don't know much about modding, but I know from watching this thread that a lot of the more interesting tricks involve temporarily spawning entities to produce an effect and then disappear. Perhaps you could do something like make a building next to the wall you want to remotely destroy, point it towards that wall when you build it, and when you pull the lever it destroys itself and spawns a creature that lives just long enough to mine out that tile?
What I do when I have to dig directly into a magma shaft is to channel the square and mine out a small overflow room and put a grate over it. That way when a miner breaches the lava it won't immediately flood over him but instead go through the grate into the buffer allowing him to escape.
Post by: Pan on May 28, 2012, 09:42:02 am
Post by: Meph on May 28, 2012, 12:35:55 pm
Post by: SalmonGod on May 28, 2012, 04:31:06 pm
So I built a magma cistern today, and lost a dwarf. Last time I did this, the magma flow was easily slow enough that the miner could remove that last tile and then have plenty of time to back away. This time the stuff spilled out so fast, it flooded the room with steam and the miner didn't get to take a single step before melting.
I've been thinking about it all day, and don't know how I could do this differently. I just had the thought that perhaps some modding would be appropriate here. Would it be possible to mod in very small remote detonations for this purpose? I really don't know much about modding, but I know from watching this thread that a lot of the more interesting tricks involve temporarily spawning entities to produce an effect and then disappear. Perhaps you could do something like make a building next to the wall you want to remotely destroy, point it towards that wall when you build it, and when you pull the lever it destroys itself and spawns a creature that lives just long enough to mine out that tile?
What I do when I have to dig directly into a magma shaft is to channel the square and mine out a small overflow room and put a grate over it. That way when a miner breaches the lava it won't immediately flood over him but instead go through the grate into the buffer allowing him to escape.
Thanks, I will keep this one in mind.
Post by: wyrdness on May 29, 2012, 09:42:09 am
What I do when I have to dig directly into a magma shaft is to channel the square and mine out a small overflow room and put a grate over it. That way when a miner breaches the lava it won't immediately flood over him but instead go through the grate into the buffer allowing him to escape.
Thanks, I will keep this one in mind.
What I often do when it's time to breech the wall is to channel out one square from the floor directly above it. The miner should stay on the level from where they were digging and not be crispy fried in the magma flow. Afterwards you can then build a new floor/ wall/ workshop/ whatever over the hole to block it up and nobody is the wiser. :D
Post by: narhiril on May 29, 2012, 11:15:20 pm
Planned changes:
-Added compatibility for newest version(s) of Dwarf Fortress.
-Added a reaction at the alchemy lab to create a rainbow diamond from an abyssal eye and a mountain heart.
-Added a reaction at the alchemy lab to create a rainbow diamond from an amethyst, ruby, sapphire, and emerald.
-Removed the loading station, unloading station, and bdog's wheelbarrows (obsolete).
-Added the ability to manufacture stone buckets, stone wheelbarrows, and stone mine carts at the machine shop.
-Rakshasa illusionary copies will no longer drop rib bones on death.
Post by: Pan on May 29, 2012, 11:23:18 pm
Post by: SirAaronIII on May 29, 2012, 11:46:16 pm
Post by: Pan on May 30, 2012, 07:02:47 am
Narhiril, are the graphics fixed? Also, what will you be planning on working on after your surgery? Just to let us have something to think on while you're gone :P
Post by: simonthedwarf on May 30, 2012, 03:13:42 pm
Post by: feralferret on May 30, 2012, 05:16:48 pm
I love LFR because it does stuff that not only adds content, but adds depth to gameplay. More importantly, it does so with a cohesive vision, rather than a shotgun approach.
Couldn't have put it better myself... so I won't try. ;)
I'm really looking forward to the update too. I use ASCII so a raws-only release works just fine for me. Keep up the great work and good luck with your operation!
Post by: narhiril on May 31, 2012, 05:47:03 pm
Isn't a mountain heart even rarer than a rainbow thingy`?
Mountain hearts occur in mithril deposits. More importantly, however, you can get them from the "prayer for ritual gems" reaction. I felt like providing a few extra ways to get rainbow diamonds. If you don't want to worry about mountain hearts and abyssal eyes, breeding carbuncles will provide you with all of the gems you need for the other reaction.
Lol.
Narhiril, are the graphics fixed? Also, what will you be planning on working on after your surgery? Just to let us have something to think on while you're gone :P
The new pre-installed version is going to be using Ironhand v0.72. I haven't quite worked out all the kinks yet, but some progress has been made on that front. I'll definitely have the raw release out in a day or two, tops.
As for more details, I'll be happy to share them when I have a bit more time to do so. ;)
Post by: narhiril on June 01, 2012, 06:21:08 am
I'm not sure how long I will sidelined after that - probably at least two or three days until I get out of the hospital, but possibly a bit longer. Full recovery is supposed to take four to six weeks, though I'll likely be back to modding well before everything's quite back to normal.
Of course, I use the term "back to normal" extremely loosely.
Post by: SalmonGod on June 01, 2012, 06:28:09 am
Post by: narhiril on June 01, 2012, 07:15:35 am
Links
Raw-only (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=4230)
Pre-installed (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=4242)
Post by: Pan on June 01, 2012, 10:29:55 am
Post by: Dohon on June 02, 2012, 06:55:09 am
Hope the surgery goes well!
Ditto!
Post by: o_O[WTFace] on June 03, 2012, 05:08:38 am
Post by: Pan on June 03, 2012, 11:09:46 am
And damn, these guys are strong. It's summer and I have a squad bearing down my neck, a pack of ah tels, vibrants and bladearms. Iron clad military is no match. Should I go for steel next time?
Post by: narhiril on June 03, 2012, 11:23:54 am
Shedim siege - military is slaughtered. However, I notice there are left over 'corpses' that are 'being devoured by a shedim'. The shedim units moved on afterwards, but the corpse remains there. Does it disappear? Can corpses like that be butchered? Are they like that to be unrecognizable or something? They also seem like a unit or something. Is this a bug?
And damn, these guys are strong. It's summer and I have a squad bearing down my neck, a pack of ah tels, vibrants and bladearms. Iron clad military is no match. Should I go for steel next time?
The "corpse devouring" works by resurrecting and transforming the corpse into a creature that kills itself, spreading a buff to nearby shedim by contact with its "fluids." If the half-eaten corpses are persisting, something is wrong and I'll need to figure out what is causing them not to die. Here's the actual creature...
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Pan on June 03, 2012, 11:25:28 am
Crap... earliest save is a season away. Dammit!
Don't you have places to be right now, Narhiril?
I just tested it in arena. Basically the shedum eats it by transforming it to a creature that 'collapses' and releases fumes, right? Works well in arena. Could it be the freezing biome that I played in? The corpses that persisted were megalania and a dog. Didn't really notice the dwarf corpses, if any.
I also noticed that the shedim might even attack the raised corpse.
I edit way to much. Ah heels (rarest guys with stingers) are nigh unstoppable. 10 legendary swordsdwarves in full steel are unable to pierce it's skin, and it chucks them around like nobody's business. And these things siege early, however rare they may be.
Post by: assasinwar9 on June 04, 2012, 05:56:24 am
Post by: Remuthra on June 05, 2012, 03:50:34 pm
Shedim siege - military is slaughtered. However, I notice there are left over 'corpses' that are 'being devoured by a shedim'. The shedim units moved on afterwards, but the corpse remains there. Does it disappear? Can corpses like that be butchered? Are they like that to be unrecognizable or something? They also seem like a unit or something. Is this a bug?Actually, I like the shedim and dont find them all that difficult. I skip iron and go straight for steel while building a cage trap line though.
And damn, these guys are strong. It's summer and I have a squad bearing down my neck, a pack of ah tels, vibrants and bladearms. Iron clad military is no match. Should I go for steel next time?
In any case, I really like how the shedim like to send their advance troops in first to poke your defenses before bringing the other troops in as the vanguard retreats back. It's a really cool thing how they try to use weak troops to soften you up first.
Post by: Pan on June 05, 2012, 07:39:45 pm
Shedim siege - military is slaughtered. However, I notice there are left over 'corpses' that are 'being devoured by a shedim'. The shedim units moved on afterwards, but the corpse remains there. Does it disappear? Can corpses like that be butchered? Are they like that to be unrecognizable or something? They also seem like a unit or something. Is this a bug?Actually, I like the shedim and dont find them all that difficult. I skip iron and go straight for steel while building a cage trap line though.
And damn, these guys are strong. It's summer and I have a squad bearing down my neck, a pack of ah tels, vibrants and bladearms. Iron clad military is no match. Should I go for steel next time?
In any case, I really like how the shedim like to send their advance troops in first to poke your defenses before bringing the other troops in as the vanguard retreats back. It's a really cool thing how they try to use weak troops to soften you up first.
Cool! Do you have problems with them eating corpses, though? I haven't tried lately, but it seems like it's working out for you.
Post by: Carn on June 05, 2012, 09:15:08 pm
Basically the default value for heads is tiny, causing frequent skull fractures and instant death, but someone (scamtank) found that a slightly modified value for head and brain sizes fixed this while still allowing crushing weapons to smash skulls (but not a bare handed slap).
http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3466523&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=185
I don't have much experience testing this out and tend to build forts in horrible evil places with overly complicated defenses, never sending dwarves against things in close combat.
Anyway, figured this would be the best place to spread this information if it is at all useful.
Perhaps I'll even get to trying the new version soon, I heard that floor traps now block trader access? I might have to actually start using a military....or developing much more in depth drowning/lava/cave-in systems.
Post by: Carn on June 05, 2012, 09:26:09 pm
Post by: Demiurge on June 06, 2012, 04:34:34 am
Post by: Pan on June 06, 2012, 06:47:47 am
Oh, there are some nasty ones like deconstructions dropping on heads and the running back and forth. Never mind then.
Post by: Pan on June 06, 2012, 12:33:57 pm
Post by: simonthedwarf on June 06, 2012, 02:26:33 pm
Post by: Pan on June 06, 2012, 07:25:00 pm
I hope she has a better surgeon than most fortresses do.
As we speak, I happen to have a High Master Surgeon running about. :P
Post by: Stirk on June 06, 2012, 11:55:26 pm
Quote
As we speak, I happen to have a High Master Surgeon running about. :P
To be fair, this mod has it easy for training medical skills. In most forts, you would have to injure people constantly to get a good surgeon.
Which would defeat the point.
Post by: tahujdt on June 08, 2012, 08:56:03 am
It would defeat the point in any game but DF. In DF, it is standard procedure.QuoteAs we speak, I happen to have a High Master Surgeon running about. :P
To be fair, this mod has it easy for training medical skills. In most forts, you would have to injure people constantly to get a good surgeon.
Which would defeat the point.
Oh my god, I just had a mental picture of DF mixed with "Flatland". In flatland(a book), convicts are sent to the schools to provide subjects to practice the Art of Feeling on. Maybe dwarven medical schools work the same way.
Post by: narhiril on June 09, 2012, 06:14:37 am
I guess what I'm saying is... for a few days, please do me a favor and spell it out for me in child-like terms. My surgery went perfectly, and I'm recovering just fine, but I'm very sore and it would really help me to get very detailed assessments of what exactly is wrong with the latest release. I know that DF 0.34.11 is now out, and I'll be working to try to get a new version ready for that as soon as possible, but I don't know when that will be. I'm sorry, I've been very sleepy the last few days.
Hm, is it not possible to create cloaks? I like them for roleplay purposes for dwarves.
Cloaks were removed for simplified clothing, but I can re-introduce them for roleplaying purposes quite easily. Expect that soon. :)
I hope she has a better surgeon than most fortresses do.
I laughed out loud. Thanks, simon. :D
Just popped in to offer this bit of information in case it wasn't known, crossposting from SA
Basically the default value for heads is tiny, causing frequent skull fractures and instant death, but someone (scamtank) found that a slightly modified value for head and brain sizes fixed this while still allowing crushing weapons to smash skulls (but not a bare handed slap).
http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3466523&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=185
I don't have much experience testing this out and tend to build forts in horrible evil places with overly complicated defenses, never sending dwarves against things in close combat.
Anyway, figured this would be the best place to spread this information if it is at all useful.
Perhaps I'll even get to trying the new version soon, I heard that floor traps now block trader access? I might have to actually start using a military....or developing much more in depth drowning/lava/cave-in systems.
Intriguing, I'll look into this. :)
Post by: Carn on June 09, 2012, 11:00:39 am
Post by: Imp on June 09, 2012, 04:29:56 pm
My surgery went perfectly, and I'm recovering just fine
It's so great to have you back and healing well. You take as long as you need to get your mind solid again and your fingers firmly on the code, and know that we who are your players are delighted that you and thus your mod are on the road to recovery and will be sources of delight and wonder into the future!
Post by: Pan on June 11, 2012, 07:57:09 am
Narhiril, have you ever considered making the caverns more dangerous? For instance, packs of dangerous wildlife (like crundles and crap, except they don't fall apart after you so much as fart in their general direction) that you would shudder to behold? Most dangerous wildlife tend to be solitary, so dogpiling tends to work. Even devourers just takes some minor tactics (send in some useless potash makers armored for it to chew on, then flank it with adamantine armed weapon masters. A pack of, for example, giant poisonous centipedes in the third layer would really be a challenge.
Cavern civilizations would really spice things up. I currently, for roleplaying purposes, have 4 squads of dwarves 'Wardens of the N/W/S/E Caverns' consisting of one speardwarf (to deal with big creatures - get em in the spleens :) ) and 2 marksdwarves with javelin throwers (lots of goblinite). They man archer towers with drawbridges that extends into the 3 caverns vertically. But they haven't really encountered anything dangerous other than the wayward FB, especially after the cavern specie population has been all but extinct. So with some dangerous cavern civilization and large population dangerous creatures, LFR can live up to the 'strike the earth, but careful for it not to strike back' promise. Although I do suppose most people prefer caverns to be as benign/dangerous as it is now. This could use some discussion, I suppose?
Post by: SirAaronIII on June 11, 2012, 11:51:58 am
Post by: Pan on June 11, 2012, 06:06:53 pm
I agree with adding more dangerous creatures to caverns, but usually when a mod adds animals to the underground, I barely ever see them. Maybe I'm just unlucky.
I've encountered megalania and deep wolves in the caverns. Haven't seen those crystal dragons yet, but I'm sure I will someday and is training my men on that.. Haven't seen damascus sentinels either, but I have orihalcum dug out, so I'm good.
Post by: simonthedwarf on June 11, 2012, 07:26:29 pm
At any rate, it would be a step outside of the more generalized meta-genre of mods to introduce hostiles that encourage you to have internal defence and security. The need for this is non-existent in vanilla DF and afaik in mods as well.
As for creatures in cavern's, again I would propose to step outside the general genre. Cut down on creatures which you see as less important for LFR's general feel and theme, and start focusing on the likelihood of your own added creatures appearing in the cavern's or otherwise. Player's dont react in a way closely identifiable with your mod's theme if animalmen or vanilla creatures are appearing more than your own creations.
A key idea with LFR has been specific creatures that advances tech through what they drop or hoard. This is great - why not make it even more important and more likely to appear as a opportunity?
Perhaps remove giant animals, remove goblins, rework elves. Take control over the features that are not part of the LFR identity. Shedim and voidwalkers are now the main hostiles you worry about in LFR, the others COULD (notice COULD) be changed or removed.
Quote from: Pan
I've encountered megalania and deep wolves in the caverns. Haven't seen those crystal dragons yet, but I'm sure I will someday and is training my men on that.. Haven't seen damascus sentinels either, but I have orihalcum dug out, so I'm good.
Yes, yes and more yes. I haven't encountered more than fragments of the non-civs that LFR add. Make them more numerous and more likely to appear. Seeing something that has a 1% chance of appearing is awesome, but like I outline above a lot of the additions to LFR other than the workshops themselves are not reliably showing up. I would love to see sentinels in a game of LFR, and I haven't encountered them once in five different patch versions.
Post by: Pan on June 11, 2012, 11:44:33 pm
Post by: Stirk on June 12, 2012, 12:04:36 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I disagree with you. Some of the greatest appeal of this game is the fact that it adds a lot without changing anything major or taking stuff away. You could run a completely normal game with this mod if you wanted to, only using the new races instead of the old. The mod ads a nice touch to the world, with all the new features, put forcing the features to be the only thing worth noting takes away from the overall game. What fun is it to climb the tech tree if a sentinel jumps you have way up every game? The whole point of the rare creatures is to be rare, not something that every fortress sees. I like how she is handling the mod, it would be annoying to have been railroaded into one thing or another.
Post by: Meph on June 12, 2012, 12:18:39 am
Quote
At any rate, it would be a step outside of the more generalized meta-genre of mods to introduce hostiles that encourage you to have internal defence and security. The need for this is non-existent in vanilla DF and afaik in mods as well.
I think IT-000 (corrosion) and me would tend to disagree on that one.
@narhiril: Any idea when you will be back in the game?
Post by: Ifeno on June 12, 2012, 12:33:51 am
Post by: simonthedwarf on June 12, 2012, 04:09:34 am
Post by: narhiril on June 12, 2012, 09:13:35 am
I'm sorry guys, recovery has been going smoothly, but it's been a lot harder on me physically and emotionally than I thought it was going to be. I may need some more time before I really can get back into things.
My body is still in shock from all of the drugs, changes, and unusual hormone levels, and I'm having a really difficult time sleeping or even just getting comfortable for an hour or two. I'm still peeing through a tube (though I get that taken out today), and I'm only very recently off of opiate painkillers. I feel compelled to state for the record - morphine withdrawal is NOT fun. My nights this week have consisted of me waking up every few hours drenched in ice-cold sweat, and having to dry myself off, change clothes, and change all of my bedding. To top it all off, I'm off my anxiety medication (a precaution to avoid complications with other meds), so I've been a total nervous wreck over the past couple of days, and I'm really far away from my boyfriend and my home.
Not to turn this into a blog about my life or anything, but I'm just a little overexerted in more ways than one right now. I really hate having to ask for more time, but I'm just not in a good place now for modding. Or sleeping. Or even going to the bathroom by myself. I am hoping things settle down here soon. I can start my old meds again when I get home, on the 19th, which will put me in a place to give a more accurate timeframe for the next update(s).
But right now, I need a hug. T_T
Post by: wyrdness on June 12, 2012, 09:28:10 am
I'd offer hugs, but, well, there's a reason I lurk on internet forums at all hours of the day and night instead of going out and meeting people face to face. Yes, I'm really an elf, but shh! Don't tell anyone! >_> <_<
Post by: Meph on June 12, 2012, 11:48:29 am
PS: I mean it, would be fun to meet some people from the forums, I have been visiting thistleknot in LA and it was fun.
Post by: Sunday on June 12, 2012, 01:39:23 pm
Anyway, many vibes and best wishes, and hope you feel better soon. :)
Post by: narhiril on June 12, 2012, 01:55:35 pm
Then good luck and take your time with your recovery. I wish you all the best, and if you happen to live somewhere between LosAngeles and NewYork, I might even come by the next months and give you a hug ;)
PS: I mean it, would be fun to meet some people from the forums, I have been visiting thistleknot in LA and it was fun.
I live in St. Louis, but I'm currently staying in Philadelphia for recovery until the 19th. Definitely make sure to message me if you're ever in the area!
---
Thank you everyone for your concerns and kind words. I really do appreciate them, and they go a long way towards helping me get better faster.
Now, I may just be delusional from my medications, but I thought I heard somewhere that underground sieges work now? Can I get a source on this please, if it's true?
Post by: Hugo_The_Dwarf on June 12, 2012, 02:24:41 pm
ACTIVE_SEASON and PROGRESS_TRIGGERs to the LAYER_LINKED civs and they will come... I haven't tried underground trading yet tho..
Post by: simonthedwarf on June 12, 2012, 02:28:54 pm
Post by: Imp on June 12, 2012, 02:35:47 pm
But right now, I need a hug. T_T
Consider yourself hugged, and watched over by friendly eyes, and simply prized.
You heal at your own pace, decide what you need and take care of yourself, and know that the next time some of us have a prized dwarf with a injury, especially one that's gone through surgery and isn't getting out of bed yet, that our thoughts might drift to you and any decisions on lever-pulling may be postponed for months longer than otherwise would have been given.
Post by: Meph on June 12, 2012, 07:52:49 pm
offtopic: I do the route 66, which goes through St.Louis, but it will take me about 4-6 weeks till I am close by. I will write you before though. :)
EDIT: They still appear as single/wild units and in camps btw.
Post by: Stirk on June 12, 2012, 09:45:26 pm
Underground sieges do work. They worked in 30.25 as well. Ambushes and Sieges appear in Caverns. The races ignore their depths though, and they can occur in any cavern, 1,2 or 3. Even if the cavern has not been breached yet, which can lead to cavern lvl3 sieges that take a while to defeat. The invaders keep their normal AI, so SIEGER and AMBUSHER tags do work on them. Check my caver entity file, I use 4 cavern races currently.
offtopic: I do the route 66, which goes through St.Louis, but it will take me about 4-6 weeks till I am close by. I will write you before though. :)
EDIT: They still appear as single/wild units and in camps btw.
I thought that they would starve to death since they can't farm? What do they eat?
Post by: Pan on June 13, 2012, 11:09:59 pm
All that sounds like shit, Nar... Hope you recover soon :)
Post by: Carn on June 14, 2012, 07:21:27 am
I thought that they would starve to death since they can't farm? What do they eat?
I thought only player controlled units had to eat, at least in fortress mode?
Post by: Stirk on June 14, 2012, 09:23:29 am
Quote
I thought only player controlled units had to eat, at least in fortress mode?
I am pretty sure that everything has to eat in world gen, that is why kobolds tend to die out, they can never get enough food by stealing it and don't farm. How do you think elves survive but kabolds don't?
Post by: Putnam on June 14, 2012, 01:04:02 pm
Post by: simonthedwarf on June 14, 2012, 02:36:36 pm
Post by: assasinwar9 on June 15, 2012, 02:10:48 am
Post by: Remuthra on June 16, 2012, 05:14:43 pm
Post by: Stirk on June 16, 2012, 07:40:04 pm
So what features are planned next? We have some churches, we have some science, which will be worked on next?
Just had a great adventurer who was set to learn every spell in the world thanks to a tower raid. Then I exited and the game crashed.
Post by: simonthedwarf on June 16, 2012, 08:47:45 pm
I could play a succession fort. Not really doing much right now with it being summer and all.
Sign up in our thread in the community subforum!
Post by: narhiril on June 17, 2012, 09:12:31 am
Never mind, eh.
So what features are planned next? We have some churches, we have some science, which will be worked on next?
Just had a great adventurer who was set to learn every spell in the world thanks to a tower raid. Then I exited and the game crashed.
I don't know why that crashed, unfortunately. I don't play much adventure mode, so it's hard for me to know if it was my fault or a game glitch.
I'm going to finish the third tier ritual tree, as it's still missing two temples (light and darkness). After that... Well, I'm still putting it together myself. Eventually I'm going to flesh out mechanical constructs some more and move the ritual tree up to its more FUN features (accidental transformations, plagues, and ritual units of the primary deities).
Post by: Stirk on June 17, 2012, 10:56:26 am
Quote
I don't know why that crashed, unfortunately. I don't play much adventure mode, so it's hard for me to know if it was my fault or a game glitch.
It is probably my fault. I took two pages of books from the location, the game just went insane trying to figure that out.
Post by: Pan on June 17, 2012, 11:04:30 am
Are humbabas supposed to be dangerous? One saved my fortress from starvation, with 300 units of meat. Only took two spearmen stabbing it to death, too.
Post by: Remuthra on June 17, 2012, 09:23:13 pm
Never mind, eh.
So what features are planned next? We have some churches, we have some science, which will be worked on next?
Just had a great adventurer who was set to learn every spell in the world thanks to a tower raid. Then I exited and the game crashed.
I don't know why that crashed, unfortunately. I don't play much adventure mode, so it's hard for me to know if it was my fault or a game glitch.
I'm going to finish the third tier ritual tree, as it's still missing two temples (light and darkness). After that... Well, I'm still putting it together myself. Eventually I'm going to flesh out mechanical constructs some more and move the ritual tree up to its more FUN features (accidental transformations, plagues, and ritual units of the primary deities).
That reminds me, since the fourth tier mechanical tech tree is robots, does that mean we will eventually have cyborg dwarves or dwarven combat mechs (question mark key broken, cant type it)
Post by: Stirk on June 18, 2012, 12:39:04 am
Quote
That reminds me, since the fourth tier mechanical tech tree is robots, does that mean we will eventually have cyborg dwarves or dwarven combat mechs (question mark key broken, cant type it)
I don't think so, but if I remember correctly there are basically going to be golems that use dwarf life to make, which are kind of the same thing as cyborgs? I don't see how a mech would work myself.
Post by: Remuthra on June 18, 2012, 03:22:51 pm
QuoteThat reminds me, since the fourth tier mechanical tech tree is robots, does that mean we will eventually have cyborg dwarves or dwarven combat mechs (question mark key broken, cant type it)
I don't think so, but if I remember correctly there are basically going to be golems that use dwarf life to make, which are kind of the same thing as cyborgs? I don't see how a mech would work myself.
Still not as cool as Urist McSchwarzenegger
Post by: greycat on June 19, 2012, 11:28:01 am
Just popped in to offer this bit of information in case it wasn't known, crossposting from SA
Basically the default value for heads is tiny, causing frequent skull fractures and instant death, but someone (scamtank) found that a slightly modified value for head and brain sizes fixed this while still allowing crushing weapons to smash skulls (but not a bare handed slap).
http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3466523&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=185
I don't think this has been reported on the bug tracker (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/main_page.php) yet. I also think that it should be, but I have absolutely zero experience messing with creature raws, so I'm not really the best person to report it.
Post by: Dheyjin on June 19, 2012, 11:28:50 am
I guess that shouldn't have happened. ^^
I use your current version, with pre installed graphics.
I did tinker a bit with the creature raws, but only editing some grazer values, childhood length and that sorta stuff. But nothing that could've caused this, I guess.
The embark side is a 5x5 temperate desert / ocean biome.
If you want the save, or want additional information, just ask.
Post by: Putnam on June 19, 2012, 02:08:46 pm
Post by: Dheyjin on June 19, 2012, 05:09:30 pm
Post by: Stirk on June 19, 2012, 05:42:27 pm
Quote
I see, but shouldn't they still attack the fortress instead of leaving after a couple of seconds ?
Normally they do, just using their mounts as mere snacks before they get into the fight. This works out pretty well lore wise, ah?
But the camels must have beat them well enough to make them retreat. So basically the camels broke the siege.
Post by: Putnam on June 19, 2012, 06:02:06 pm
Post by: greycat on June 19, 2012, 09:37:37 pm
One of my dwarves just performed a lesser ritual of power, walked three steps from the altar and died. There's a pool of blood in each of those three steps, and there are four bloodstones on the altar.
Armok's Razor says the ritual caused the dwarf to bleed to death, quite quickly. Am I doing it wrong? Was there some precaution that I should have taken, perhaps?
Post by: TwilightWalker on June 19, 2012, 10:28:54 pm
QuoteI see, but shouldn't they still attack the fortress instead of leaving after a couple of seconds ?
Normally they do, just using their mounts as mere snacks before they get into the fight. This works out pretty well lore wise, ah?
But the camels must have beat them well enough to make them retreat. So basically the camels broke the siege.
There is some 'straw that broke the camel's back' joke to be made here, but I can't quite think one up.
Post by: Stirk on June 19, 2012, 10:42:12 pm
Quote
There is some 'straw that broke the camel's back' joke to be made here, but I can't quite think one up.
Personally I was thinking about something more along the lines of "In Shedim Russia, snack eats you!"
Quote
I just started with this mod. It looks really interesting.
One of my dwarves just performed a lesser ritual of power, walked three steps from the altar and died. There's a pool of blood in each of those three steps, and there are four bloodstones on the altar.
Armok's Razor says the ritual caused the dwarf to bleed to death, quite quickly. Am I doing it wrong? Was there some precaution that I should have taken, perhaps?
Are dwarfs not supposed to spontaneously die? Huh. Maybe I am doing something wrong?
Nah, it is a quark of the ritual to be punished every once in a while. It is rare to die from it, however, he was just unlucky.
Post by: greycat on June 19, 2012, 10:47:40 pm
Geez, I'd hate to see a CURSE_ARMOK_MAJOR....
Post by: Pan on June 21, 2012, 09:04:43 pm
So Narhiril, how's things going? I ask purely out of curiousity.
Post by: Stirk on June 22, 2012, 08:56:21 pm
Do the blessed dwarves abilities protect them from environmental effects? For example, if your in an area where the grass spontaneously combusts and elephants are dying from the heat, would an emberlight warrior be able to live threw it?
Post by: Meph on June 23, 2012, 03:19:33 pm
Post by: narhiril on June 23, 2012, 04:56:59 pm
Post by: astianax on June 23, 2012, 05:12:34 pm
so, yeah, they seem to be unaffected. but i should really take her off weaver duty...
Post by: Stirk on June 23, 2012, 05:58:15 pm
Quote
Emberlight warriors should be completely immune to any fire/heat related effect.
Just wondering. I don't actually know how fire works in its damage effects. It is kind of difficult to do experiments that go further then "Stuff on fire. Stuff dies." This gives emberlight warriors an advantage in high heat worlds, ah?
Quote
Hey guys, I'm getting a lot better now and I'm currently working on getting a new release up to go with the latest version of DF. This release will probably be light on new features, but it will level the foundation for the next major development, which will be the finishing up of the tier three ritual units and a few additions to mechanical constructs. After that comes the FUN part of the ritual tree, with the servants and blessings of the primary deities, surprise results, possessions, demon summoning, plagues, and oh so many more things that will cause all sorts of chaos.
Can't wait....
Quote
i've got exactly one emberlight in my fortress. she's started several large fires while out after webs in the forest and being surprised by various fauna (mostly giant birds) that she decides to lob fireballs at. then she calmly walks through the fires, ignoring the now flaming birds running about in panic, starting more fires, and grabs her web, then walks back through the smoke and fire and mayhem.
so, yeah, they seem to be unaffected. but i should really take her off weaver duty...
I knew they where fireproof, I walked threw fire enough in adventure mode. I was just wondering how fire worked, and if Emberlights where immune to the effects of natural heat.
EDIT
Wait...You where looking for webs on the surface? And you sent your god troops to do it?
Post by: greycat on June 24, 2012, 08:23:19 am
Wait...You where looking for webs on the surface? And you sent your god troops to do it?
grabs her web, then walks back through the smoke and fire and mayhem.
You can't argue with success!
Post by: greycat on June 24, 2012, 08:27:44 pm
Post by: Stirk on June 24, 2012, 08:58:35 pm
Post by: Pan on June 24, 2012, 11:17:24 pm
Hmm... wondering what to do with all these slabs of accreditation the Orrery is producing. The changelog says that they were removed in 0.18b, but they're being churned out by my Orrery in 0.18d. I guess I should atom-smash them.
Probably an oversight by narhiril. Narhiril, can this be changed in a game that's already in progress?
Post by: Meph on June 25, 2012, 12:59:01 am
Post by: Pan on June 25, 2012, 04:35:53 am
Post by: narhiril on June 25, 2012, 08:55:43 am
Hmm... wondering what to do with all these slabs of accreditation the Orrery is producing. The changelog says that they were removed in 0.18b, but they're being churned out by my Orrery in 0.18d. I guess I should atom-smash them.
Probably an oversight by narhiril. Narhiril, can this be changed in a game that's already in progress?
Good catch, I'm on this now. As Meph said, this can be changed without any need for a new world or fortress.
Here's how it should read.
Code: [Select]
reaction_orrery_lfr
[OBJECT:REACTION]
[REACTION:TRAIN_TEACHER]
[NAME:reduce data]
[BUILDING:ORRERY_LFR:CUSTOM_T]
[PRODUCT:100:1:BOULDER:NO_SUBTYPE:INORGANIC:ENLIGHTENMENT_STONE]
[SKILL:TEACHING]
[REACTION:TRAIN_OBSERVER]
[NAME:make observations]
[BUILDING:ORRERY_LFR:CUSTOM_O]
[PRODUCT:100:1:BOULDER:NO_SUBTYPE:INORGANIC:ENLIGHTENMENT_STONE]
[SKILL:SITUATIONAL_AWARENESS]
[REACTION:TRAIN_STUDENT]
[NAME:perform calculations]
[BUILDING:ORRERY_LFR:CUSTOM_S]
[PRODUCT:100:1:BOULDER:NO_SUBTYPE:INORGANIC:ENLIGHTENMENT_STONE]
[PRODUCT:2:1:TOOL:ITEM_TOOL_CONCEPT_LFR:NONE:NONE]
[SKILL:KNOWLEDGE_ACQUISITION]
[REACTION:UNLOCK_ORRERY]
[NAME:document orrery construction logistics]
[BUILDING:ORRERY_LFR:CUSTOM_U]
[BUILDING:SCIENTIFIC_LIBRARY_LFR:NONE]
[PRODUCT:100:1:TOOL:ITEM_TOOL_THEORY_LFR:NONE:NONE]
[SKILL:ORGANIZATION]
Post by: simonthedwarf on June 25, 2012, 10:48:26 am
Nice. I'd rather not have that show up for the succession game I'm in (speaking of which shouldn't be long now... I just can't stop editing here and there :( )
oh no!!!
Post by: narhiril on June 27, 2012, 10:45:36 am
The latest version fixes a few bugs and updates LFR to DF v0.34.11.
Links for the lazy:
-Raw only- (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=4230)
-Pre-installed- (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=4242)
Post by: greycat on June 27, 2012, 05:33:35 pm
Post by: Pan on June 28, 2012, 06:20:35 am
Post by: narhiril on June 28, 2012, 08:38:35 am
Hurrah. Safe to say that LFR's back? :D
Back and kicking! Ok, maybe not literally kicking, but back on track!
Post by: greycat on June 28, 2012, 10:00:09 am
CONFIRMED BUGS:
The foundry is known to cause all of the stones that it can produce blocks from to be listed as economic stones by default. This is annoying, as you will have to manually change them back to mundane stones in the stone menu, but does not otherwise affect gameplay. There is currently no fix for this.
Given the way stockpile/workshop linking works now, is it worth keeping the foundry? You can get the same "churn out 100 blocks of olivine" result without it.
It was my intention to try removing the foundry raws before my most recent world gen, but I forgot. :( Removing them after world gen (and after embark) caused the game to abort with an error when trying to load the save, so I just put them back....
Post by: astianax on June 28, 2012, 07:13:51 pm
...i'd also changed a few of the other things to require or produce blocks instead of boulders, too. but pondering changing those back...
Post by: Stirk on June 30, 2012, 01:43:51 pm
But has anyone seen a cannon beetle yet? A tame one?
*EDIT*
...Are shedim supposed to come naked?
**EDIT**
....Do I see flying lungfish?
***EDIT***
Finally got a full Shedim invasion, they sent their general and everything. I was a little worried since the Giant Cappybara war had just happened and I was weakened, but they started fighting each other and everything worked out...
Post by: narhiril on July 03, 2012, 08:36:28 am
The next version (v0.19a) will finish the ritual units of the elemental gods with the temples of light and shadow.
Gisthal, the god of light, employs units called radiant priests, which have abilities specifically aimed at the undead. Because of their limited target scope, the abilities of radiant priests are a fair bit more potent than most other elemental ritual units - extreme slows, long stuns, and the ability to transform enemy undead into extremely weak forms. Finally, the presence alone of a radiant priest will weaken and slow nearby vampires, providing a subtle hint as to what creatures of the night lurk among your citizens.
Pharis, the goddess of darkness, pays her favor to the umbrals. Umbrals are stealthy, shadowy combatants who carry powerful poisons and blind abilities. Outside of combat, when fleeing, umbrals cast a hide effect on themselves and nearby dwarves, reducing civilian casualties in an ambush (this hasn't been thoroughly tested yet). Umbrals also carry a powerful poison specifically aimed at the shedim.
In addition to these ritual units, the mechanized defense laboratory will be receiving new schematics for new dwarven constructs. More on that as it develops. :)
Post by: Pan on July 03, 2012, 09:18:05 am
But has anyone seen a cannon beetle yet? A tame one?
Nope. That's why I just made them domestic for my succession game.
These new changes sound insanely great, Narhiril. Looking forward to them :D
Post by: ioi101 on July 04, 2012, 06:38:08 pm
Other then that.. great job on the mod heh, I played it in 0.13, it's much improved.
EDIT: Nevermind, solved it with some help from the general forum. Turns out, traps block wagons in .34
Post by: Teneb on July 05, 2012, 03:05:49 pm
Post by: Hugo_The_Dwarf on July 05, 2012, 03:16:22 pm
Here's a little information about what's currently being worked on...Becareful with the Umbrals Hide ability, once used the AI will not leave the "Hidden" state and will move at a crawl until *discovered* It's great for dicated warriors, but not laborers. Shame the HIDE effect couldn't be given a timer, like syndromes. Maybe they cast Hide on themelves and give nearby dwarves a speed boost to run away faster? Currently this might make warriors OP due to more hits, but once Toady gets this next update out that won't be an issue.
The next version (v0.19a) will finish the ritual units of the elemental gods with the temples of light and shadow.
Gisthal, the god of light, employs units called radiant priests, which have abilities specifically aimed at the undead. Because of their limited target scope, the abilities of radiant priests are a fair bit more potent than most other elemental ritual units - extreme slows, long stuns, and the ability to transform enemy undead into extremely weak forms. Finally, the presence alone of a radiant priest will weaken and slow nearby vampires, providing a subtle hint as to what creatures of the night lurk among your citizens.
Pharis, the goddess of darkness, pays her favor to the umbrals. Umbrals are stealthy, shadowy combatants who carry powerful poisons and blind abilities. Outside of combat, when fleeing, umbrals cast a hide effect on themselves and nearby dwarves, reducing civilian casualties in an ambush (this hasn't been thoroughly tested yet). Umbrals also carry a powerful poison specifically aimed at the shedim.
In addition to these ritual units, the mechanized defense laboratory will be receiving new schematics for new dwarven constructs. More on that as it develops. :)
Post by: Pan on July 05, 2012, 08:39:39 pm
narhiril, are banshees supposed to be able to be reanimated by necromancers? I just had to fend of a pack of zombie banshees that came with a necromancer.
Yo dawg, I heard you like zombies...
Post by: Pan on July 09, 2012, 08:59:46 am
Post by: KingFerret on July 12, 2012, 11:26:45 am
Post by: narhiril on July 12, 2012, 06:17:30 pm
Made an account just to say that I can't play dwarf fortress without this mod anymore.The quality is excellent and the addition of the tech and ritual tree are perfectly fitting with this wonderful game's unique style. Erm, so yeah that's pretty much it, a big thank you to Narhiril for putting all of the effort into making this.
Thank you, it really touches me to know that there are people out there who get some joy out of what I do.
What's up Narhiril?
The period of silence preceding this post has been a productive silence - though, unfortunately, I don't have a whole lot of features in a state where I can show them off yet. The obstacle course is getting a makeover, and I've been pouring a lot of time into the designs of the new temples. A lot of the progress in the past few days has been in testing, trying to nail down the abilities of radiant priests and umbrals - I'm not quite there yet, but I'm getting close.
Some of you may remember this screenshot from a while back...
Spoiler: Ironhand version (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: ASCII version (click to show/hide)
Originally earmarked as the "Cathedral of Visthel," this was a design for the next tier of the ritual tree. However, over the last few days, I've grown unsatisfied with it for its intended purpose. I will likely be re-using this design for the upcoming "Temple of Origins," but I feel like a cathedral needs to be a bit more lavish.
...Yeah, I know, I just claimed that my 22x22 workshop "wasn't lavish enough," but hopefully you'll agree with me when you see the new design (coming up later - it's 30x25).
Anyway, since all of that isn't going to be done for this release, here are the two temples (light and shadow) for this coming release.
(http://i.imgur.com/gcULM.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/PBi1n.png)
Ignore the white barrier on those images - it's just a result of some imprecise cutting and pasting on my part.
More information will come as more things reach completion. Next up - new mechanical constructs. :)
Post by: Meph on July 12, 2012, 06:43:37 pm
Quote
...Yeah, I know, I just claimed that my 22x22 workshop "wasn't lavish enough," but hopefully you'll agree with me when you see the new design (coming up later - it's 30x25).
Pushing boundaries ;) I am curious what kind of materials you will request for this. I always liked the idea of a "Sid Meiers Civilization" style worldwonder building (do I make sense ?) that uses max building size and takes years to construct, but never really found a use for it, other then very specialised decoration ;)
Personal Note: I am in Oklahoma City by now, if I know an arrival time for St.Louis I will let you know. I probably stay 2-3 nights there anyway, so no worries about exact timing.
Post by: Roses on July 12, 2012, 08:38:32 pm
Post by: Meph on July 12, 2012, 08:52:35 pm
Post by: Stirk on July 12, 2012, 08:54:19 pm
Post by: Pan on July 12, 2012, 08:57:24 pm
Post by: Hugo_The_Dwarf on July 12, 2012, 09:05:31 pm
32*32Well I'm sure you could go bigger, but the nifty utility for making WS only goes to 32*32 lol
Post by: KingFerret on July 13, 2012, 05:24:18 am
Post by: Pan on July 13, 2012, 07:14:57 am
Just a warning - don't use Tempests at close range under any circumstances. Very bad idea...
They die?
Post by: KingFerret on July 13, 2012, 07:16:22 am
Post by: Pan on July 13, 2012, 08:36:51 am
What mechanical constructs are you working on now, Narhiril?
Post by: KingFerret on July 13, 2012, 11:17:59 am
Anyway, I was just thinking about the Temple of the Orphan. Erm, this may be a stupid suggestion, but all of the other temples require multiple difficult-to-get reagents. What I mean is that the reaction only takes gold bars, whereas the other *super priests* require multiple reagents. Maybe the Tempest might require gold and something...? It just seems to me that the Tempests are a little easy to get (compared to the others, particularly the emberlight and the wavebreaker.
Just thought I'd mention it. Maybe it was an oversight, maybe it was a design choice, or maybe I am just wrong :P
Post by: Mithril Leaf on July 14, 2012, 10:42:07 am
Post by: narhiril on July 15, 2012, 08:56:40 pm
Yes, I embarked on a volcano with no sedimentary layers. As soon as I hit stone I was up to my ears in gold and obviously the magma from the volcano was free easy-to-access fuel.
Anyway, I was just thinking about the Temple of the Orphan. Erm, this may be a stupid suggestion, but all of the other temples require multiple difficult-to-get reagents. What I mean is that the reaction only takes gold bars, whereas the other *super priests* require multiple reagents. Maybe the Tempest might require gold and something...? It just seems to me that the Tempests are a little easy to get (compared to the others, particularly the emberlight and the wavebreaker.
Just thought I'd mention it. Maybe it was an oversight, maybe it was a design choice, or maybe I am just wrong :P
It's still a work in progress regarding all of the costs. I tend to lowball them at first to get people familiar with the new features then work on the balancing act. I'll definitely be doing more playtesting and bearing your feedback in mind for future balance tweaks.
Post by: astianax on July 16, 2012, 06:41:25 pm
Post by: ciadude2 on July 18, 2012, 02:38:15 am
I installed by downloading the newest version, and the mods I'm using are this one, Fortress Defense, and Phoebus's graphics.
The only raws I changed were for getting rid of trap avoid in certain creatures from Fortress Defense, and removing aquifers. Not sure why that would effect the buildings from LFR.
Other than that... the mod works smoothly for me.
Post by: narhiril on July 19, 2012, 12:29:04 pm
So maybe I did something to muck it up but I dunno... Anyway, my problem is that the new minerals, creatures, etc. all work for me, but the buildings don't. Like, I can't build alchemy labs, foundries, etc. and I don't know why.
I installed by downloading the newest version, and the mods I'm using are this one, Fortress Defense, and Phoebus's graphics.
The only raws I changed were for getting rid of trap avoid in certain creatures from Fortress Defense, and removing aquifers. Not sure why that would effect the buildings from LFR.
Other than that... the mod works smoothly for me.
It sounds to me like the entity_default file got overwritten, perhaps by a copy from Fortress Defense. Go ahead and replace that file with the one from LFR or LFR-SC and everything should be fine. It will probably require a new world, though.
Post by: Meph on July 19, 2012, 03:13:05 pm
Quote
It willprobablydefinetly require a new world, though.
Post by: narhiril on July 20, 2012, 09:09:02 am
I've decided to abandon the material components of ceremonial reactions. Instead, I thought - why not, instead of tying ritual units to limited (and often obscure) resources, there was a better way that I could control their influx which also makes a lot more sense from a lore standpoint. From now on, prayers at the temples will sometimes yield a "symbol of (deity)'s favor," which will be the new reagent for transformation ceremonies. Put simply - the more attention you offer to a deity with prayers, the more of that deity's units will be available. Makes sense, right?
Symbols will only be produced by a set of new prayers, all similarly named, which will do nothing but produce symbols at a rate that approaches a constant predicted by the laws of probability. Therefore, if you want to use the temple for prayers for other items, you will need to allocate time on the workshop that could be used for symbol prayers, or build another temple. This also has the neat little side effect of offering some sort of additional incentive to build multiple temples in order to win favor more quickly.
Thoughts?
---
Today has been dedicated to cleanup of the ritual tree and, on a more exciting note, some framework for new dwarven mechanical constructs (that can be pastured/penned). I still have quite a bit to do, including but not limited to a few new b_detail_plans, graphics, finishing the abilities for umbrals, and, of course, testing, but it's going smoothly so far.
Post by: ioi101 on July 20, 2012, 01:21:52 pm
Post by: greycat on July 20, 2012, 07:06:15 pm
Today has been dedicated to cleanup of the ritual tree and, on a more exciting note, some framework for new dwarven mechanical constructs (that can be pastured/penned).
Clockwork sheep sound awesome. ;) Magma sheep, even more so!
Post by: Pan on July 20, 2012, 08:35:54 pm
Post by: simonthedwarf on July 21, 2012, 06:28:31 am
Post by: narhiril on July 21, 2012, 09:51:03 am
Nari do you have LFR 0.10 lying around somewhere? 8)
Wow, there's a blast from the past.
http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=6696
I uploaded 0.10d. If you need an even earlier version, let me know.
Post by: simonthedwarf on July 21, 2012, 07:31:06 pm
Post by: Stirk on July 21, 2012, 08:10:27 pm
Quote
Clockwork sheep sound awesome. ;) Magma sheep, even more so!
I have always dreamed of electric sheep, myself.
How will the organization of the symbol thingies work? Will they fit in a stock pile or just lay on the alter until they are ready to use?
**EDIT**
I am playing a meokin adventurer who goes around owning goblins with a copper butterfly knife. In a fight with some boogeymen, I had misjudged the opponent in front of me, and instead of stepping back like I had planned, got bit. I stepped back and he bled to death, like I had planned, and went back to the village to sleep. Then, gazing upon my injuries, I noticed the part I lost was a valuable organ known as the "Right eye tooth". ...Does...Anyone know what that is? Should I be worried?
***EDIT 2***
What an interesting world this is! I was attacked by a group of goblins who ambushed me. I was of course, ready to fight them, and went to the defense of my Nephal chanter buddy I kept around to get rid of the boogeymen. Strangly, they where uninterested in my, and proceeded to rip apart my buddy. After the fight, I talked to them, and they answered as normal soldiers would. I brought one of them with me, asked one for a quest, and went back on my merry way. I also noticed that underground Armorock thing also has some eye teeth, do all of the creatures of this world have it?
Post by: greycat on July 21, 2012, 09:16:09 pm
Post by: Stirk on July 21, 2012, 09:31:53 pm
Quote
The eye teeth are the teeth directly below the eyes. If something has fangs, these will be the fangs. Otherwise, they're just teeth.
Ah, thanks! Learn something every day.
And for all who wish to learn the fate of said Meokin, he and his goblin companions got in a fight with a land mover. They damaged him greatly, but he took like five hundred hits to take down. The Moekin tried to take shots he could not make and was hit by a counter attack, once on a super hit in the neck he was trying to get and once on the normal hit. Both attacks had him lost a limb to the jaws of the beast, but they fought on. Soon the land mover died the death of a thousand cuts and bled to death, but our adventurer had to retire in the Nephal village. He lost his leg and his arm to the beast, but proved that the Meokins are epic outside of legends as well...
*EDIT*
...Did anyone else know Shedim can swim? RIP river village.
Post by: PlattFish on July 23, 2012, 08:40:08 pm
Post by: Pan on July 23, 2012, 09:31:03 pm
Shedim can swim? :o
Post by: wyrdness on July 24, 2012, 04:20:10 am
Shedim can swim? :o
I consider Shedim to be made of pure evil and I wouldn't put it past them to spontaneously grow wings and fly in to my fort to be honest. A little splishy-splashy time isn't going to stop them!
Post by: astianax on July 24, 2012, 08:31:28 pm
Post by: Pan on July 27, 2012, 08:57:20 pm
Post by: Man of Paper on July 27, 2012, 09:21:19 pm
Shedim can swim? :o
I consider Shedim to be made of pure evil and I wouldn't put it past them to spontaneously grow wings and fly in to my fort to be honest. A little splishy-splashy time isn't going to stop them!
I think of them as similar to the Tyranids from the Warhammer 40K universe. Not sure if that was mentioned during any previous discussion of Shedim (hell, maybe I said it for all I remember). That said, one of the traits the Tyranids have is the ability to evolve and adapt to overcome whatever situation they throw themselves at, so I wouldn't put it past the Shedim to do the same, lore-wise.
Game-wise would be awesome/impossible to accomplish in the game itself (from my extremely limited knowledge of what Dwarf Fortress, as well as the modding community, is able to achieve at this juncture). Unless there was a way to have a Shedim "spellcaster" that could transform other Shedim, maybe to fill the ranks of the hierarchy when one of the elite units falls. Though once again my lack of DF and modding knowledge may have me spewing insanity. I don't think there'd be a way to keep the "spellcaster" from spamming an army of ah haleels.
You make modding look too easy, narhiril. I started trying to learn myself some of this smartbox computing device raws editing you kids love so much thinking, "Hey, I could probably do a Kingdom of Loathing mod real easy!" Besides the soul-crushing knowledge that I now have to devote even more time to Dwarf Fortress, I also noted that you, Meph, and all the other modders work hella hard to implement a lot of this neat stuff. So I'd just like to thank you all real quick for all the work you do!
Post by: narhiril on July 28, 2012, 11:08:47 am
Meph and I actually met up IRL this past week. ^_^
Post by: greycat on July 28, 2012, 06:01:44 pm
She allegedly has "good creativity", too. :o
Post by: Man of Paper on July 28, 2012, 06:05:25 pm
Post by: greycat on July 28, 2012, 07:08:42 pm
Post by: Stirk on July 28, 2012, 07:21:02 pm
**EDIT**
In an unrelated note, I became interested in what god troop is the strongest. What do you guys think? OFF TO THE ARENA!
**********************ULTRA EDIT!!**********************
I have noticed this for a while, but just thought I would report it. Not sure if this is a glitch or not?
As a male adventure Ember light, I noticed that the "Flames of Zorkanankanablasamakun" or whatever was basically five fireballs at once, but when a female uses it, it becomes an attack like dragon fire. Is this intentional?
Post by: narhiril on July 28, 2012, 10:54:55 pm
...You sent blind dwarves off to work? To the Colosseum with you! That is what happens to Nobles who don't do their jobs.
**EDIT**
In an unrelated note, I became interested in what god troop is the strongest. What do you guys think? OFF TO THE ARENA!
**********************ULTRA EDIT!!**********************
I have noticed this for a while, but just thought I would report it. Not sure if this is a glitch or not?
As a male adventure Ember light, I noticed that the "Flames of Zorkanankanablasamakun" or whatever was basically five fireballs at once, but when a female uses it, it becomes an attack like dragon fire. Is this intentional?
Good catch, this is indeed an error on my part.
Post by: Pan on July 29, 2012, 02:52:13 am
Meph and I actually met up IRL this past week. ^_^
:o Cool. I've only ever met one DF player in real life, and I don't really think he counts cuz he got me into it.
Post by: Mobotium on July 29, 2012, 06:18:47 am
/EDIT/: And just after that I got a goblin siege. Fun.
Post by: greycat on July 29, 2012, 08:23:56 am
...You sent blind dwarves off to work? To the Colosseum with you! That is what happens to Nobles who don't do their jobs.
Well, it's not exactly obvious that they're blind. You must explicitly check for it. They walk around normally, accept jobs normally, etc.
Out of curiosity, how long does this sandstorm blindness last? It's... been quite a while now. :(
Post by: Stirk on July 29, 2012, 10:08:05 am
Quote
Well, it's not exactly obvious that they're blind. You must explicitly check for it. They walk around normally, accept jobs normally, etc.
Maybe they are just faking to get disability checks? Just send everyone to the Colosseum, including yourself. That usually fixes all my problems.
Quote
Hum... This has probably been said already, but I recently got a Shedim siege and all of them came mounted in war jaguars and Camels. As soon as they arrived, though, they started murdering the Camels and the war Jaguars (and being murdered) and proceeded to retreat. The siege took a day at most. I believe this is because the Shedim have the "OPPOSED TO LIFE" tag?
Yep. They do that. They take mounts as snacks to eat when they get here, but the weak ones usually get beaten by their own people. Don't worry. The bigger sieges will still wipe you out.
!!EDIT!!
And Armok's power ritual has claimed another life. The one of my doctor. I am starting to think that, maybe, the ritual is not worth it? Small chance of getting something good, large chance of death...
Post by: Pan on July 29, 2012, 11:40:22 am
That's how I deal with such nonsense. Not perfect, but it works :P
Sandstorm blindness didn't last too long. It usually wears off after a bit. I notice patches of shimmering sand washed off dwarves sitting by the well. Maybe they wash it off?
Post by: Stirk on July 29, 2012, 11:46:55 am
I have a better theory. SHedim are actually controlled by someone else, a dark and evil person, much like we control the dwarves. But while we kill of random nobles who make requests, they kill of the peasants. Think about it, since Shedim nobles are usually higher ups, they can't kill them since they are worth to much. So logically they send them to a well defended fortress with a pack of betraying animals. Armok is then pleased for the lack of noble blood.
~~~~I LOVE EDITS~~~~
A Shedim invasion attacked my fortress in the second year. I was of course expecting a few scouts, but I was not prepared for what did happen. A Shedim Ah tel showed up with a few ranged support units and the scouts I was expecting, which could have killed me if I was unlucky. I put my marksdwarves, brave and well armed, but green, on the hole leading to the rest of the fortress. They held there, shooting down several of the weaker enemies, but half of them got shot down by the enemies ranged units. They bravely held out while the enemy rushed toward the incomplete cage trap pit I was making. Fortunately the Ah tel was captured here. I now have a captured Ah tel, what do you guys think I should do with it?
No, I have two strong ones. A destroyer and a blade arm. I built a little Colosseum just for them, and hope to pit them against enemies I find in the future. The others I might just execute by firing squad to train the new troops, since all the old ones got wiped out. I am thinking hooking up the cage to a lever, putting it behind a fortification, and having my men take shots at it. I am just going to capture the enemies in the cage trap and throw them in with the stronger ones, still, of course. Personally I am hoping that I can capture some Shedim from a separate siege and have a clash of the titans, maybe a forgotten beast or something similar.
The destroyer got out, do to a mistake in my part in the Colosseum design, and set the fortress to evacuate so he could be captured again. One of my soldiers stayed back with a cougar that was being attacked, and shot him in the back breaking his spine. The cougar continued to attack, and while all it's attacks bounced off, the enemy died. Aww.
$$$$QUESTION EDIT$$$$
Does anyone know how to get torchbearer gargoyles now? They are not at the shrine of victory, as the reference sheet says...
Post by: narhiril on July 29, 2012, 06:51:39 pm
$$$$QUESTION EDIT$$$$
Does anyone know how to get torchbearer gargoyles now? They are not at the shrine of victory, as the reference sheet says...
That reaction was moved to the Temple Component Foundry.
Post by: Stirk on July 29, 2012, 07:11:45 pm
Quote
That reaction was moved to the Temple Component Foundry.
Ah yes, thanks. Now I can get back to setting the fortress on fire.
And I just figured out that the king of the nation is a Meokin lad. Another testament to their awesomeness. On top of that the goblin's war leader is human...
And now I can't get the Shedim to kill anything I actually want it to kill.
Post by: narhiril on July 31, 2012, 12:38:58 am
The good news? I finished up the mantis construct raws today, and I've got them to work pretty nicely. The description isn't quite finalized yet, but here are some screens.
(http://i.imgur.com/pSi9v.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/TSEab.png)
Mantises (I considered "mantids," but "mantises" is, in fact, the correct plural) are made from a variety of familiar mechanical components. You'll need to make an iron chassis, advanced mechanisms, mechanisms, two iron pipes, a mechanical eye, and a few capacitors. The reaction will utilize a new slug-like domestic creature (called a "slimer," which looks a bit like Gary from Spongebob) as the platform for transformation, integrating it as part of the mantis control module. Of course, if this part is damaged, the mantis ceases to function.
Mantises also have some new parts - notably the three power generators, which are made of lustrum and mounted on their backs. Damage to a power generator will slightly impair the mantis, while damage to more than one will cripple it - much like a dwarf with a spine injury. This feature is still pretty experimental, so it may or may not make it into this release, depending on how things go.
Despite having four armored, but functionally integral components (where the spider only had the one - the control module), the mantis is a little bit stronger than the spider in combat, and also is able to be penned or pastured like any normal domestic creature, rather than appearing as "friendly." Currently, there is only an iron mantis available for construction, but steel, mithril, and possibly even better variants may be available in the future.
Spiders can be constructed out of bronze (already implemented) and iron (finished for next update). There are currently no plans for more advanced spiders, but this may change in the future.
Post by: Pan on July 31, 2012, 10:03:35 am
Post by: ciadude2 on August 02, 2012, 03:31:09 pm
So maybe I did something to muck it up but I dunno... Anyway, my problem is that the new minerals, creatures, etc. all work for me, but the buildings don't. Like, I can't build alchemy labs, foundries, etc. and I don't know why.
I installed by downloading the newest version, and the mods I'm using are this one, Fortress Defense, and Phoebus's graphics.
The only raws I changed were for getting rid of trap avoid in certain creatures from Fortress Defense, and removing aquifers. Not sure why that would effect the buildings from LFR.
Other than that... the mod works smoothly for me.
It sounds to me like the entity_default file got overwritten, perhaps by a copy from Fortress Defense. Go ahead and replace that file with the one from LFR or LFR-SC and everything should be fine. It will probably require a new world, though.
That fixed it up perfectly. Sorry for the late response, I've been very busy with work.
EDIT: Alright I just noticed that the fortress in the world I just spawned has 225 exactly friendly kobolds living in the 4x4 region.
... Well, as long as they're friendly...
Post by: Mobotium on August 02, 2012, 05:26:28 pm
Post by: ciadude2 on August 03, 2012, 01:41:01 am
EDIT: Nevermind I needed a couple of reagents that I was missing. I feel dumb now.
Post by: ciadude2 on August 03, 2012, 02:38:21 am
Alright, so in the fort I started I'm up to the advanced alchemy lab... I can't seem to produce any tomes though. Is there a specific thing you're supposed to do? I keep doing the advanced experiments and whatnot but to no avail.
EDIT: Nevermind I needed a couple of reagents that I was missing. I feel dumb now.
EDIT 2: I've got a dwarven spider deployment hub built but every time I get a kit ready, the hub just kind of... explodes. No spider, no damage to the dwarf as far as I can tell. Just a lot of lost resources.
I'm probably missing something really obvious here.
Post by: Jilladilla on August 03, 2012, 01:47:46 pm
(PS: You can just mass burrow dwarves where you're deploying the mines, there's a good chance at least one of them will be affected and create a spider)
Post by: Stirk on August 03, 2012, 03:39:00 pm
This guy killed TWO ghost dwarves. "Tincuts struck down the ghostly dwarf...". .....How.....just how?
Post by: Putnam on August 03, 2012, 04:28:50 pm
Post by: Stirk on August 03, 2012, 04:50:48 pm
Still impressive.
But then why does the thing say "Ghostly dwarf killed" and then afterwords "Completely normal dwarf killed" often adding another ghostly after that dwarf?
Not that this is the place to ask it...
Post by: Putnam on August 03, 2012, 05:10:26 pm
Post by: Stirk on August 04, 2012, 06:06:13 pm
I was looking at one of my depressed soldiers. He had just watched his wife and baby get chopped down in front of him, on top of being annoyed by a long patrol duty, and got a really low happiness. While I was trying to fix that, I looked at his screen to see his thoughts. I noticed he was still married, so I went and looked at his relationships. His wife's screen still showed up.
"She has been ecstatic lately. She sustained major injuries lately. She witnessed death. She gained a sibling recently. She dined in a legendary dining room recently. She talked with a child recently. She slept in a good bedroom recently. She has been depressed by long patrol duty lately. She has been caught in the rain recently. She has been annoyed by flies. She admired a completely sublime trap recently. She has bee tired of drinking the same old booze lately. "
"She is corpulent. Her upper body is gone."
Huh. I was worried about the dead being revived but it does not seem to effect them...
Same for the baby, even stranger. "He has been ecstatic lately. He has lost a mother to tragedy recently. He is happy to be free. He was caught in the rain recently. He has been annoyed by flies. He has witnessed death."
Dwarfs. Strange creatures. His upper body is gone to. Got to love that family especially, the dad is the only one who is less then ecstatic. The mom got cut in half and is fine. The baby watched his mother get cut in half then got cut in half and is fine. And the daughter was captured by a snatcher, got cut across the head with a dagger nearly killing her, only to be saved by the living soldiers and is still ecstatic.
Post by: Pan on August 04, 2012, 09:01:15 pm
Post by: ciadude2 on August 06, 2012, 07:21:24 pm
Post by: Man of Paper on August 06, 2012, 08:24:16 pm
Glacierfind the Drink of Chanting, a precious Ancient Vanguard Artifact piccolo. It is encrusted with precious ancient vanguard artifact and menaces with spikes of ancient vanguard rubble.
Worth 117600 dorfbux.
Makes me sad he wasted an artifact, but, well, must be a badass piccolo (which, for some reason, conjures an image of an alien martial artist).
I've also got two Traders that are just hanging out at the edge of the map waiting to absorb some blows from the inevitable siege. Is that a vanilla thing, or is there something
EDIT: And I've got some bronze pikes an a spear I know I didn't make or trade for clogging up my choice of weapons for the militia.
EPIC EDIT 2: First encounter with Shedim, took place in the summer of my second year. There were 15 of them, made up of mixed lower-level units, but my militia was balls. Luckily for me, I had walled in my fortress already.
So they showed up right behind the Nephal traders. Some of the caravan guards came in, but I closed the drawbridge before the wagons got through, as the shedim were significantly closer and faster. The caravaneers decided to pile themselves up against the drawbridge, and the Shedim swarmed.
My first time atomizing anything (in fact, this was my first drawbridge and walled in fortress) took out 13 of the Shedim, one Nephal (the Shedim took care of the others waiting for the bridge to drop), and the wagons. I suspect the Nephilim won't be too happy, but faced with the alternative, it doesn't really bother me much.
Post by: greycat on August 07, 2012, 06:54:32 pm
I've also got two Traders that are just hanging out at the edge of the map waiting to absorb some blows from the inevitable siege. Is that a vanilla thing, or is there something
Vanilla bug.
Post by: Pan on August 08, 2012, 09:08:45 am
Post by: narhiril on August 08, 2012, 11:43:56 pm
How are things going, Narhiril?
It's going a bit slowly, unfortunately. I just haven't had as much time to devote to modding and testing as I would have liked over these past few weeks. I get back to school on the 20th, which will actually speed things up considerably.
I'm gunning to get this next release out before that time.
Post by: UnreadCredits on August 09, 2012, 10:34:06 am
Post by: Putnam on August 09, 2012, 11:06:22 am
Post by: UnreadCredits on August 09, 2012, 11:08:15 am
Post by: Putnam on August 09, 2012, 11:19:15 am
Post by: UnreadCredits on August 09, 2012, 11:32:05 am
Post by: Putnam on August 09, 2012, 11:42:48 am
Post by: UnreadCredits on August 09, 2012, 11:51:27 am
Post by: Pan on August 11, 2012, 02:06:57 am
Sorry fuckin dyslexia xD but anywho i see sorry im an idiot sometimes thanks for the help :D
Be more confident about yourself, man. :)
Anyway, how's it going, Narhiril?
Post by: Hurize on August 11, 2012, 08:04:29 pm
You begin sneaking.
Bronze Dwarven Spider 1 beeps.
Bronze Dwarven Spider 1 clicks.
The flying bloodforged arrow strikes Bronze Dwarven Spider 1 in the upper chassis, jamming the bronze through the control module and fracturing the control module!
Bronze Dwarven Spider 1 is propelled away by the force of the blow!
it Bronze Dwarven Spider 1 in the body part, but the attack is deflected by Bronze Dwarven Spider 1's small iron plate skirt!
The Bronze Dwarven Spider 1 slams into an obstacle!
Bronze Dwarven Spider 1 has been struck down.
A metal anything should naturally deflect arrows
Just Sayin
Post by: narhiril on August 11, 2012, 08:22:27 pm
I think I found something that shouldnt happen, Read the logs:
You begin sneaking.
Bronze Dwarven Spider 1 beeps.
Bronze Dwarven Spider 1 clicks.
The flying bloodforged arrow strikes Bronze Dwarven Spider 1 in the upper chassis, jamming the bronze through the control module and fracturing the control module!
Bronze Dwarven Spider 1 is propelled away by the force of the blow!
it Bronze Dwarven Spider 1 in the body part, but the attack is deflected by Bronze Dwarven Spider 1's small iron plate skirt!
The Bronze Dwarven Spider 1 slams into an obstacle!
Bronze Dwarven Spider 1 has been struck down.
A metal anything should naturally deflect arrows
Just Sayin
Iron is harder than bronze, and bloodforged is statistically almost identical to iron (though a bit heavier). You shot it in its most vulnerable location with a superior material, broke the control module, and it stopped functioning. Spiders are fairly small and their armor isn't any thicker than plate mail, which iron or bloodforged arrows go through pretty easily. The only odd thing I see here is that your spider was wearing a plate skirt, but I don't judge.
It's also worth noting that projectiles seem to follow their own (often nonsensical) set of rules, where bone can sometimes penetrate steel, and a fluffy wambler can behead a bronze colossus. I don't know why this happens or even if it's supposed to, but its a behavior present in vanilla DF as well.
Post by: Hurize on August 11, 2012, 09:20:03 pm
Iron is harder than bronze, and bloodforged is statistically almost identical to iron (though a bit heavier). You shot it in its most vulnerable location with a superior material, broke the control module, and it stopped functioning. Spiders are fairly small and their armor isn't any thicker than plate mail, which iron or bloodforged arrows go through pretty easily.The only odd thing I see here is that your spider was wearing a plate skirt, but I don't judge.It's also worth noting that projectiles seem to follow their own (often nonsensical) set of rules, where bone can sometimes penetrate steel, and a fluffy wambler can behead a bronze colossus. I don't know why this happens or even if it's supposed to, but its a behavior present in vanilla DF as well.
(http://i3.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/003/193/1279052383758.jpg)
Post by: ciadude2 on August 12, 2012, 01:54:32 pm
Post by: narhiril on August 12, 2012, 10:30:52 pm
Post by: Putnam on August 13, 2012, 07:27:41 pm
A metal anything should naturally deflect arrows
Just Sayin
No, and there's no way to make it naturally deflect arrows unless you literally make it stronger than adamantine.
It's made of bronze.
Post by: narhiril on August 14, 2012, 12:15:12 am
The "construction" reaction works by imparting a syndrome to the worker, which grants them the temporary ability to transform one slimer into a dwarven mantis construct. It works just fine on paper, but there are a couple of minor technical hangups. Notably, here are the options I am looking at...
For the SYNDROME...
OPTION ONE: Gas cloud - inhaled syndrome with ability applied to laborer.
Advantages
-Syndrome applied instantly, mantis constructed without any delay or micromanagement.
-It works... sometimes.
-"Conflict of allegiance" issue (discussed below) can be partially circumvented with short-range targeting and pen/pasture designations.
Disadvantages
-Multiple dwarves in proximity could result in multiple mantis constructs from a single reaction (exploit).
-It works... sometimes. But sometimes, it doesn't, and resources go down the toilet.
-----
OPTION TWO: Produces a "tonic" (alcohol) that grants the ability when imbibed.
Advantages
-Syndrome applied as soon as tonic is imbibed.
-Always succeeds in applying syndrome - practically no risk of resource loss.
-Effectively limits the reaction to one and only one product, since dwarves cannot drink the same dose at the same time.
Disadvantages
-Some possible (rare) weird behavior with preferences.
-Getting a dwarf to drink the tonic when you want him to may be very difficult. Needs testing.
-Vulnerable to "conflict of allegiance" issue.
-----
OPTION THREE: Gas cloud, apply transformation to the slimer directly.
ADVANTAGES:
-Circumvents any potential conflicts of allegiance (discussed below)
-Instant and localized transformation.
DISADVANTAGES:
-Unreliable - may waste resources, like option one.
-Exploitable - no way to assure one-to-one reaction/transform ratio.
-----
The "conflict of allegiance" issue I had mentioned is a byproduct of the limitations of the transformation interaction - put simply, when i do the transformation through an ability, I have no way of guaranteeing that the transformation will be applied to a FRIENDLY slimer and not a wild or merchant one (targeting tokens are not this advanced).
Option three gets around this by only applying the transformation to slimers pastured on top of it (so unless you're dumb - or determined, I guess - and build your mechanized defense lab right smack in the middle of the road AND try to use it at the exact moment that traders bring slimers by, you're fine). Option three, however, has a number of other glaring flaws that make me uneasy to go that route.
It is unfortunate that none of these options are without drawbacks, but I'm afraid that these issues come up sometimes when you're trying to bend a static system to create content it wasn't designed to support - or, in this case, specifically designed NOT to support. This is, essentially, an elaborate workaround to not being able to use creatures in reactions.
What do you guys, specifically those of you who I didn't lose somewhere in that wall of text, think I should do?
Post by: Pan on August 14, 2012, 02:18:48 am
Post by: Man of Paper on August 14, 2012, 12:53:56 pm
Post by: Kbarbarossa on August 14, 2012, 03:55:56 pm
You could also maybe make an item called a "Mantis Kit" or something that's not consumed in the reaction, but very expensive to compensate for infinite use which would work well for option 3. I saw this used in MW DF.
Just an idea, I don't know if it would work for you, but could you have a reaction that turns the Slimer into an item such as a "Bagged Slimer" or something along those lines which then creates an automatic reaction for the construct like the butcher and tanner work except in the same building. You could then use that in the reaction. Again though, this isn't a direct transmutation.
For a direct transmutation is it possible to make a creature more vulnerable to a syndrome. Again I haven't done any modding, at least not yet, so I don't know if you can do that.
If you were to use your proposed solutions I would prefer the third.
In the end it's your mod so you can do with it what you will.
Post by: narhiril on August 14, 2012, 05:36:14 pm
Yeah, I don't mind a chance of failure or undesired results. It makes a bit of sense, what with how dwarves are.
What are the chances of success? Sometimes? Half the time? Most of the time? Cuz I've had this problem with emberlights, really, and I don't feel it's that big of a bug. Annoying, but everything has a chance of failing, you know?
It's the same as an emberlight transformation - just a boiling stone that the dwarf (or slimer, in option 3) has to inhale. The success rate seems to be somewhere between 30 and 60% on average, which is something that is just inherent in how the syndrome transfer works.
For a direct transmutation is it possible to make a creature more vulnerable to a syndrome. Again I haven't done any modding, at least not yet, so I don't know if you can do that.
I cut out the earlier suggestions from that quote for brevity's sake - I don't plan to use either of them right now, but I have made a note of them. Regarding syndrome vulnerability... it's something that has not been very well researched. There is an attribute called "disease resistance," but I wasn't able to determine anything conclusive after playing around with this for a few hours - it didn't seem to affect the success rate that dramatically (though I had an admittedly small sample size).
After a few hours of thinking it over in the bathtub, I'm actually leaning towards option #1 here, and here's why:
Option #1's primary drawback is that it won't always succeed, but this drawback is shared with option three. Option one does a good job of preventing undesired slimers to be targeted for transformations if you simply pasture your slimers right next to the workshop. However, the strongest reason for why I am choosing this option is the existing layout of the workshop itself - which looks something like this:
10001
01110
00010
01110
10001
The numbers represent block tiles. Since the work area is right smack in the middle, the only approach to the work area is from the entrance on the left, and the workshop's corner block tiles make placing it in the middle of a road impractical. Because of this layout, it would be somewhat difficult to get slimers into the right position for an option #3 transformation without putting them in a very small pen, which causes its own problems when they reproduce and start killing each other.
Since there is always going to be a dwarf at the work location when the reaction completes, I'll be targeting him with the syndrome and using the syndrome interaction to transform a nearby slimer (within a few tiles, let's use three as an arbitrary number). Regardless of how many slimers are around, the dwarf can only turn one of them into a mantis.
The only remaining opportunity for exploits is if a player were to jam a large number of dwarves into the space around the workshop, potentially hitting more than one of them with the syndrome. What I like about this option is that this exploit forces dwarves on top of each other, where they can socialize, meaning that attempting to intentionally abuse this exploit often puts you at a greater risk for tantrum spirals down the line - which may or may not be a good enough reason not to do it, but is certainly worth considering if you want to abuse the system.
So basically, you'll want to pen your slimers in the area right next to the workshop, where the worker will pass when he completes the reaction. I'll be sure to note this in the manual.
...And with that, all that remains is testing and balancing those damned ritual interactions, but don't get me started on that.
Post by: narhiril on August 16, 2012, 11:27:35 am
Tarantulas will be large spider constructs that can be penned/pastured. Scarabs will be even larger constructs with thicker armor that can be war trained. I haven't yet decided if the two other constructs (hornets and scorpions) are going to make it into this update or not, but we'll see. Golems definitely will not, since they're going to be a ritual tree crossover upgrade, and the ritual tree hasn't gotten that far just yet.
Interactions are all done, though. Whew.
Post by: astianax on August 16, 2012, 09:17:34 pm
Post by: Putnam on August 16, 2012, 11:52:28 pm
Post by: narhiril on August 20, 2012, 11:10:07 am
The good news? Tarantulas and scarabs are done. I hadn't planned to including those this release, but I was on a roll with constructs, and I just kind of kept going after mantises.
Post by: Pan on August 21, 2012, 04:38:47 am
Post by: Arkenor on August 23, 2012, 07:50:14 am
I've been struggling with a little project of my own. It seems to me that bowyer is a bit of a wasted skill right now (especially given that it's moodable). They barely make anything in the vanilla game, as as soon as you get your hands on metal, you're unlikely to be making crossbows out of wood or bone any more, and they don't even make their own ammo (though I guess that stops you getting an artifact bolt, which would make me cry). Turns out that getting them to be responsible for the metal crossbows is beyond my paygrade right now. I can't even find the reactions that makes crossbows and bolts. Is it hardcoded or am I just failing at filesearching?
Anyway, I was thinking (and this is why it's vaguely relevant for me to have posted the previous paragraph here): As your mod has bowyer savants turning up who are bad at everything except bowyery, and also introduces a wide range of new crossbows, do you think it might be appropriate for the bowyers to rise up, and maybe take some of those new weapons (or their requisite research) under their jurisdiction? The weapon smiths and smelters have enough to do anyway!
Post by: Demiurge on August 23, 2012, 02:11:07 pm
Post by: narhiril on August 23, 2012, 02:54:08 pm
I think perhaps limiting crossbows to the bowyer and removing reactions for metal ones could be an option. Then just add some mechanics to the mix so that crossbows require mechanisms and maybe some metal bars for the more advanced ones. I agree that it's a shame that once you move on to metal the bowyer is completely useless.
For technical reasons, the material of LFR's upgraded crossbows has to be determined by the bayonet, so even a wooden crossbow can be used in production to the same effect. I'll admit that this makes bowyers only marginally less useless, though. Unfortunately, bowyer artifacts are always going to be made of wood or bone (I have no control over this), and I am a bit limited in what I can do to the existing reactions, as their raws are generated from the entity file and can't be directly modified. I could remove them from the permitted weapons lis and add them through custom reactions, but this causes some other problems with migrants, etc.
That being said, I have no objections to moving the creation reactions for upgraded crossbows and dart launchers from weaponsmithing skill over to bowyer, if that's what the general consensus is. This is something I could change in a matter of seconds.
Post by: Arkenor on August 23, 2012, 05:53:35 pm
I think perhaps limiting crossbows to the bowyer and removing reactions for metal ones could be an option. Then just add some mechanics to the mix so that crossbows require mechanisms and maybe some metal bars for the more advanced ones. I agree that it's a shame that once you move on to metal the bowyer is completely useless.
That being said, I have no objections to moving the creation reactions for upgraded crossbows and dart launchers from weaponsmithing skill over to bowyer, if that's what the general consensus is. This is something I could change in a matter of seconds.
That sounds great to me! How about the javelins themselves, or are they best left in the hands of the smelters?
Post by: Meph on August 23, 2012, 07:36:58 pm
Quote
I think perhaps limiting crossbows to the bowyer and removing reactions for metal ones could be an option.Impossible.
Post by: 73 on August 23, 2012, 11:06:10 pm
Basically, I just got sieged by the shedim. I see the 'vile force of darkness' message, and close all my gates and call out the archers. Once they're ready, I go to look for the shedim... and find that they're all killing each other, and the combat logs are filled with them ripping each other to shreds for quite some time. Shortly thereafter, they retreat, having defeated themselves.
What I think happened is that they had a loyalty cascade. This is because there are some named war leopards mentioned in the logs, who are now all dead, having been killed by the shedim. As no other war leopards existed on the map before the invasion, I'm assuming that the shedim brought them as war animals, and I just didn't notice them when the invasion first started. I think the shedim then killed their war leopards due to being opposed to life, causing them to attack each other. I suspect they need to be stopped from bringing war animals somehow.
Post by: narhiril on August 24, 2012, 10:11:54 am
I'm playing a new game after a break of several months, and this is my first time dealing with the shedim, and I think I've found a bug. Not sure if it's already been reported, since I didn't read back in the thread, but...
Basically, I just got sieged by the shedim. I see the 'vile force of darkness' message, and close all my gates and call out the archers. Once they're ready, I go to look for the shedim... and find that they're all killing each other, and the combat logs are filled with them ripping each other to shreds for quite some time. Shortly thereafter, they retreat, having defeated themselves.
What I think happened is that they had a loyalty cascade. This is because there are some named war leopards mentioned in the logs, who are now all dead, having been killed by the shedim. As no other war leopards existed on the map before the invasion, I'm assuming that the shedim brought them as war animals, and I just didn't notice them when the invasion first started. I think the shedim then killed their war leopards due to being opposed to life, causing them to attack each other. I suspect they need to be stopped from bringing war animals somehow.
Yeah, unfortunately that's a hardcoded behavior. :\
Post by: Arkenor on August 24, 2012, 08:02:45 pm
edit: Actually, no. I think I was talking nonsense, and just don't know how to read the files properly.
edit: Bah, no, I was right the first time. Got myself in a muddle with my mason workshop producing the right block at just the right moment to fill me with doubt!
Post by: greycat on August 25, 2012, 08:32:46 am
In fact, I highly recommend removing the foundry altogether from your raws before worldgen. By doing so, you undo the "all foundry stone types are marked as economic" bug, and you don't lose any functionality.
While we're on the issue of stone, is the alchemist experiment still supposed to cost 10 stones? That's a huge price now (equivalent to 40 stones worth of raw material in 0.34.07). I understand it was intended to "get rid of unwanted stones" back in the older versions, but now you have to do a bunch of extra mining just to get enough stones for it.
Post by: ArchAIngel on August 25, 2012, 03:28:20 pm
Post by: Stirk on August 25, 2012, 03:38:35 pm
Post by: Ultimuh on August 27, 2012, 05:43:56 am
Messing with entities brings so much FUN. :P
Not that I have anything against Meowkins, but their caravans kind of blocked the route to my only trading post.
So i had to pull the lever to one of my bridges.
Next time, I'll make the hallways leading to the trading post wider.
Post by: narhiril on August 27, 2012, 11:22:17 am
Someone mentioned rift warden's essence, which is actually stronger than adamantium, but good luck ever getting it at this point. There are plans to introduce a more user-dependent way to acquire this metal so that it becomes something more than a theoretical material. The only way to get this metal right now is to melt down the drops of exiled rift wardens, and since those are both rare and extraordinarily difficult to kill, getting enough of them to create any usable quantity of it is all but impossible right now.
There will be another way in the future to get a hold of this metal, but it doesn't exist yet primarily because the lore for it isn't quite done yet. However, don't expect it to ever render adamantine obsolete - most well-established fortresses will be lucky to ever forge a single piece of rift warden essence gear. This is tier 5+ ritual stuff, so don't worry about it right now, it's not even close to happening yet.
What IS close to happening is about 80% of the planned mechanical constructs. Right now, I'm working on mithril scarabs and graphics for slimers and tarantulas.
Spoiler: Constructs (in this update) (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Preview description (click to show/hide)
Post by: Arkenor on August 28, 2012, 01:10:35 am
Oh, that's a thought. I have necromancer issues, usually, due to my insistance on moving in next to towers. Are these mechanical marvels immune to getting raised as zombies?
Post by: narhiril on August 28, 2012, 03:02:03 pm
That sounds brilliant. I can't wait to unleash those on my foes!
Oh, that's a thought. I have necromancer issues, usually, due to my insistance on moving in next to towers. Are these mechanical marvels immune to getting raised as zombies?
Yes.
Post by: Stirk on August 29, 2012, 05:41:38 pm
Post by: Hurize on September 02, 2012, 08:38:42 pm
Post by: wyrdness on September 04, 2012, 08:39:08 pm
While we're on the issue of stone, is the alchemist experiment still supposed to cost 10 stones? That's a huge price now (equivalent to 40 stones worth of raw material in 0.34.07). I understand it was intended to "get rid of unwanted stones" back in the older versions, but now you have to do a bunch of extra mining just to get enough stones for it.
I've been wondering about this too. As someone who builds a lot of above ground structures/ fussy with my interior decor and also turns off migration (I hate being dumped with 20-60 new dwarves every season that drink all my booze like little bearded locusts), I tend to have quite small forts and with the new vanilla changes I just don't have the stone available to keep up block production, furniture production, stone crafts for early trading, and alchemy all at the same time any more.
However, in my musings I also took things a step further than just lowering the boulder cost as my thoughts kept getting drawn to how to make alchemy feel more plausible (even in alchemy it was traditionally lead in to gold (or not as the case may be), not some random rock they found on the ground in to gold) without distancing it from it's surrounding fantasy settings, which oddly brought me to Narhiril's mention of the new "object of deity" for ritual transformation. Basically instead of "praying for a gods favour" the alchemist would instead "perform a preliminary experiment" (or whatever) and from that they'd get a "preliminary theory" (object of deity) that could be stocked up (in bins!) and then used for regular alchemy like we already have instead of boulders. Basically substituting raw resources with time to try and keep things balanced.
Not that I'm suggesting changes to alchemy are a priority or anything, but I thought I may as well throw this out there since it was sort of on topic at the moment. :)
Post by: Demiurge on September 05, 2012, 07:43:54 am
Include more materials from animals, for example unprocessed organs from butchery. I think this could be a very interesting and rewarding system, but it would take a great deal of work.
Post by: wyrdness on September 05, 2012, 11:24:39 am
Post by: sum1won on September 06, 2012, 12:20:34 pm
Post by: narhiril on September 10, 2012, 03:49:37 pm
Are crossbows identical to vanilla crossbows, with other ranged weapons in this mod upgrading from there?
Yes, they're unchanged.
I apologize to everyone for the huge delay between posts and updates... Things have been insane in my life right now. I've been juggling school with trying to take care of two of my closest friends, one of whom has gallbladder disease and the other of whom has been staying with me lately to escape from domestic violence. I hope you all understand that I'm doing my best here. The real slowdown has been on the graphical end, but that's almost finished now. I'm hoping to get this release up by the end of the week. I might have to hold off on scarabs to make that deadline, but I'll push to try to get them in as well.
Post by: Arkenor on September 10, 2012, 05:07:37 pm
Post by: Demiurge on September 11, 2012, 04:47:44 am
Post by: narhiril on September 11, 2012, 03:01:08 pm
Nahril, I think the mod would really benefit from a comprehensive wiki resource. Has this been something you've wanted to do but not had time for? I would volunteer to help build one much like magmawiki (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/Main_Page) especially now that the mod is so big and complicated. There are a ton of features and not everything is comprehensively covered in your manual :)
Yes, actually, I'm extremely interested in this.
Post by: agentanorexia on September 11, 2012, 06:35:10 pm
How do I make the orichalcum precision tools? I have ~350 bars according to my stocks screen, the workshops are within 10 tiles of the stockpile. Magma vs non magma makes no difference. I add it to the queue fine but no dwarves ever make them.
Are the meowkin immune to traps? They don't seem to be affected by cage traps, or at least a very tiny percentage chance.
Post by: Putnam on September 11, 2012, 06:52:19 pm
2. If they're not affected by cage traps at all, either a diplomat has seen the traps or they're [TRAPAVOID] (which, IIRC, is the latter in the case of meowkin)
Post by: Stirk on September 11, 2012, 07:53:32 pm
Quote
How do I make the orichalcum precision tools? I have ~350 bars according to my stocks screen, the workshops are within 10 tiles of the stockpile. Magma vs non magma makes no difference. I add it to the queue fine but no dwarves ever make them.
Do you have anyone on mechanic duty?
Quote
Are the meowkin immune to traps? They don't seem to be affected by cage traps, or at least a very tiny percentage chance.
Nope, not if they are an enemy. Not unless their diplomat saw the traps.
Post by: agentanorexia on September 11, 2012, 10:44:40 pm
Guess the diplomat must have seen them then, makes sense. I'm not sure why exactly they attacked me, no big deal. Can always use more layers of defense.
Post by: Stirk on September 11, 2012, 11:35:36 pm
Quote
I've got a bunch of mechanics (traps are a pretty important part of the defense), no warren problems.
Can you do other things with the alchemist lab? They only have one square that you can enter properly, so you may have placed them wrong.
Post by: agentanorexia on September 12, 2012, 04:31:14 pm
Post by: Stirk on September 12, 2012, 04:44:34 pm
But I do think it is probably the zone thing. This is the basic outline of the alchemist lab:
xxx
xux
uux
With the "x" representing blocked off portions and the "U" representing the open areas. You have to be able to get to the bottom or the bottom left corner to be able to use it. Try putting one in an empty room, with a level on space surrounding it, if you need to.
Post by: agentanorexia on September 12, 2012, 05:40:33 pm
Post by: greycat on September 13, 2012, 02:03:29 pm
Post by: Demiurge on September 15, 2012, 12:45:19 pm
Nahril, I think the mod would really benefit from a comprehensive wiki resource. Has this been something you've wanted to do but not had time for? I would volunteer to help build one much like magmawiki (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/Main_Page) especially now that the mod is so big and complicated. There are a ton of features and not everything is comprehensively covered in your manual :)
Yes, actually, I'm extremely interested in this.
I've never actually done anything with a wiki before (except read it), but when you release the new version I'll figure out how to put something up and do some legwork. I'm sure other people in the thread will be happy to contribute too.
Post by: Imp on September 24, 2012, 02:40:25 am
A large group of mostly unskilled miners were carving upwards ramps when Soundsense warned with the clang of a block. Combat reports showed this oddity -
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Is this a DF bug? A LoFR bug? Not a bug at all, but a nefarious action from a disguised double agent, narrowly averted by a feather? I'd made sure the land above the ramps was cleared of boulders, trees, and constructions - and the message was not accompanied by a cave in message or cloud of dust, so I don't think it was the work itself... There's a lot of other dwarves around that broker, all of them appearing to be busily working on the ramps, and none throwing combat messages.
Post by: Pan on September 24, 2012, 05:49:11 am
(I know. I'm a bit late and out of place with condolences with your RL issues. But I still feel I owe my fav mod developer a shallow comment about her issues before I post anything :))
Your screen's a bit weirded out, Imp :P
Post by: Putnam on September 24, 2012, 08:44:35 pm
Back again, delighting in the mystery and majesty which is LoFR.
A large group of mostly unskilled miners were carving upwards ramps when Soundsense warned with the clang of a block. Combat reports showed this oddity -Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Is this a DF bug? A LoFR bug? Not a bug at all, but a nefarious action from a disguised double agent, narrowly averted by a feather? I'd made sure the land above the ramps was cleared of boulders, trees, and constructions - and the message was not accompanied by a cave in message or cloud of dust, so I don't think it was the work itself... There's a lot of other dwarves around that broker, all of them appearing to be busily working on the ramps, and none throwing combat messages.
It's common when skidding is involved.
Post by: Imp on September 25, 2012, 01:47:09 am
It's common when skidding is involved.
Can skidding happen 'just because'? Without combat, without any minecarts, with no (detectable to me) reason to dodge, no water for possible flow?
Post by: Pan on September 25, 2012, 04:48:51 am
Post by: Pan on October 16, 2012, 06:33:36 am
Post by: o_O[WTFace] on October 18, 2012, 12:45:10 am
Community involvement increases fun by over 50%
To make it more interesting, I removed farming (plants don't produce seeds), so a large proportion of the fort will have to be outside hunting and gathering at all times. It should really force everyone to play with all the fun mod features and we might even lose. I hope voidwalkers don't just wipe the floor with us, but I also sortof hope they do.
Post by: Imp on October 21, 2012, 11:37:24 pm
My first large migrant wave with this new map, so I pause and take notice of my various dwarves' gods, looking for some hints as to how many cursed folk I might expect to find nestled amongst my loyal ones. I find a god of disease and blight, creator of a book and worshipped by... necromancers and my dwarves, hrm... but no curses given, for all that I eye his worshippers among my dwarves carefully as I see them. Ah, a second active god, still no curses. And then a third, which makes me wonder, and wonder anew.
I cannot even tell if this is supposed to be a curse. This could even be a blessing for all I know, and it's making visions of tiny manikens dance through my head.... especially as I consider this deity's virtues. Err, and if it is LFR, that's actually a grammar typo, shrunk should be shrank.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Putnam on October 21, 2012, 11:38:46 pm
Post by: Imp on October 21, 2012, 11:40:46 pm
It is LFR, unless you have any other mods.
Thanks for letting me know! Nah, I like my LFR straight up.
Post by: fire1666 on October 22, 2012, 01:54:20 am
When the next version is released I shall decend on the text files and I will Start the second attempt of modding it :D
Quick question though how do I update the submod to next versions of either DF or mod
Post by: Putnam on October 22, 2012, 09:12:45 am
Hi guys, you might rember me saying i was going to make a mod for LFR allowing playing as the void walker, well sadly i cancled it since it was just too hard and everything was going wrong BUT NOT ANYMORE!!!
When the next version is released I shall decend on the text files and I will Start the second attempt of modding it :D
Quick question though how do I update the submod to next versions of either DF or mod
We'll know when the next version comes out.
Post by: fire1666 on October 22, 2012, 10:45:56 am
How about 1 workshop *with 3 different types that you can build but need to get the components first*
Thats is the heart of your voidwalker base, such as relegion and some more ritural powers such as making a voidwalker becom a construct *basicly a retextured version fo the golum but tougher*
Also update, i might not be making this for LFR but i might make it for Masterworks, since some of the stuff is already there at masterwork and its a bit mroe simple + its kind of a blank canvas while LFR is massivly improved and a slight tweek could balls the whole thing up!
what are your thoughts guys.
Masterwork(i could see this mod being EPIC with Masterworks) or LFR(which arguably has most of the stuff there)
Post by: narhiril on October 22, 2012, 10:58:09 am
It makes me SO happy when I play LFR and find new things. Of course, I play so little standard DF these days, I can hardly tell what's new to the game in general, and what's specifically new to this mod...
My first large migrant wave with this new map, so I pause and take notice of my various dwarves' gods, looking for some hints as to how many cursed folk I might expect to find nestled amongst my loyal ones. I find a god of disease and blight, creator of a book and worshipped by... necromancers and my dwarves, hrm... but no curses given, for all that I eye his worshippers among my dwarves carefully as I see them. Ah, a second active god, still no curses. And then a third, which makes me wonder, and wonder anew.
I cannot even tell if this is supposed to be a curse. This could even be a blessing for all I know, and it's making visions of tiny manikens dance through my head.... especially as I consider this deity's virtues. Err, and if it is LFR, that's actually a grammar typo, shrunk should be shrank.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I'm from the midwest, please forgive my occasional grammatical errors. :)
Hi guys, you might rember me saying i was going to make a mod for LFR allowing playing as the void walker, well sadly i cancled it since it was just too hard and everything was going wrong BUT NOT ANYMORE!!!
When the next version is released I shall decend on the text files and I will Start the second attempt of modding it :D
Quick question though how do I update the submod to next versions of either DF or mod
You'll want to keep your own copy of entity_void, and any other files you make should be named not to coincide with existing files. If there are any core changes to LFR's entity_void, they'll show up in the change logs I put out with every version.
Sorry again for the long delay between versions, guys, I'm finally getting to a point where I can sit down and start working on it again. I know it's been a long while, I'll save you the story for another time.
Post by: fire1666 on October 22, 2012, 11:12:59 am
TAKE YOUR TIME
I would prefure to have a good mod come late rater then another version of spore (rushed out and bad)
Also thanks for that, if possible please highlight the voidwalker entitys changes, anything small to really big, thanks in advance.
I am planning on starting after you release the next version,
I might make it also compatable with Dwarf fortress Masterworks, since alot of people use it and its also fairly good, ive played it a few times with the orc fortress expantion, its very fun.
But with tech and relegion tech-trees Ill stick to the best LFR.
Also real quick, i have some ideas for the mod sice as 1 very large building that is the centre of MOST of the important reactions sice as basic ritural's (E.G preying for !!!BEER!!! or preying for VoidShard's[Since they will be no doubt the main matterial for the Voidwalkers]).
I have some problems though, since void walkers will have void shard gear and weps, im concerned that they could be OP V.S siege's. Spoiling the !!FUN!!
and finial What colour are Voidshards?
for lore sake and for design sake...
Post by: Donuts on October 22, 2012, 11:16:54 am
Post by: fire1666 on October 22, 2012, 11:22:39 am
That part with "more hats". Team Fortress 2 even made it to DF?HELL I wish but it fails with the attack i made into hell once in LFR
40 Axe champions and 20 Crossbow experts
And to make sure it worked i decided to also flood hell itself
Thats right i Flooded hell...
Post by: Donuts on October 22, 2012, 11:26:01 am
Wtf does that have to do with my post? ??? ??? ???That part with "more hats". Team Fortress 2 even made it to DF?HELL I wish but it fails with the attack i made into hell once in LFR
40 Axe champions and 20 Crossbow experts
And to make sure it worked i decided to also flood hell itself
Thats right i Flooded hell...
Post by: fire1666 on October 22, 2012, 11:28:43 am
they literaly turned to mist...
have voidwalker bodys been made tougher because im worryed that they could be too weak.
Also with the golums idea ho about a !!!Voidwalker Construct!!!
Basicly a voidwalker turned golum made of voidshard, prefrably with some form of throwing voidshards at the enemy infinitly.
Weak but with MASSIVE peirce so its basicly GOING to hurt nomatter what you ware!
They could be quite the asset during sieges.
AND we could use the raiding system in the Orc Fortress Plugin for Masterworks (found here
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
What are your thoughts?
Post by: fire1666 on October 22, 2012, 11:32:37 am
(http://www.trolino.com/image?id=45938)Wtf does that have to do with my post? ??? ??? ???That part with "more hats". Team Fortress 2 even made it to DF?HELL I wish but it fails with the attack i made into hell once in LFR
40 Axe champions and 20 Crossbow experts
And to make sure it worked i decided to also flood hell itself
Thats right i Flooded hell...
Post by: Donuts on October 22, 2012, 11:34:20 am
Post by: fire1666 on October 22, 2012, 11:55:45 am
!!DOUBLE POST!!D:
Post by: Meph on October 22, 2012, 12:01:59 pm
Also update, i might not be making this for LFR but i might make it for Masterworks, since some of the stuff is already there at masterwork and its a bit mroe simple + its kind of a blank canvas while LFR is massivly improved and a slight tweek could balls the whole thing up!Well, I will gladly help with whatever you need, but what makes you think that Masterwork Raws are more simple ? If you mean less balanced, then yes, I do agree. ;)
what are your thoughts guys.
Masterwork(i could see this mod being EPIC with Masterworks) or LFR(which arguably has most of the stuff there)
Post by: fire1666 on October 22, 2012, 12:05:13 pm
Basicly LFR is a very carefuly balanced game ATM.Also update, i might not be making this for LFR but i might make it for Masterworks, since some of the stuff is already there at masterwork and its a bit mroe simple + its kind of a blank canvas while LFR is massivly improved and a slight tweek could balls the whole thing up!Well, I will gladly help with whatever you need, but what makes you think that Masterwork Raws are more simple ? If you mean less balanced, then yes, I do agree. ;)
what are your thoughts guys.
Masterwork(i could see this mod being EPIC with Masterworks) or LFR(which arguably has most of the stuff there)
Ill be honest with you i made 1 change to LFR and it was WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY to easy *worship to give adamantine at highest temple*
While Masterwork's i have reactions making 6 tanned leather and about 3 flour from one unit of millable material and it still feels.
i dont know.
stable I guess??? It does not feel like im cheating and lets face it you will need a massive meat industry to make tones of leather armour.
An industry it might take several ingame years to get.
Post by: katana on October 23, 2012, 11:38:30 am
Post by: fire1666 on October 23, 2012, 12:37:04 pm
Didn't you just compare giving yourself one of (if not the) best materials in the game to giving more of easily available resources as a reason for balancing...?Yes Yes i did
On a unrelated note, do we have a guessed release ETA for the next update?
Post by: katana on October 23, 2012, 07:13:26 pm
Hammerhead javelins are useless- I've got golden javelins fired from exceptional throwers being deflected consistently by bog troll's cloth armor. When they do hit, they can actually send the troll flying a tile or two back, which is pretty cool. I suggest reducing contact area.
There are no traitor dwarves, or at least they're really rare (or, my watchers aren't detecting them at all).
A friendly dwarf popped up (not under my control) in a recent migrant wave. Is this a problem with the "traitor"s, or was it a werecreature in disguise? (Either way, it was murdered by the merchants, yet I still had to bury it)
Foundries only produce one block, not four. You probably forgot to update this from the older version where stones would always drop (with a legendary miner, at least) instead of 25% of the time.
Post by: Stirk on October 23, 2012, 07:37:28 pm
Quote
Hammerhead javelins are useless- I've got golden javelins fired from exceptional throwers being deflected consistently by bog troll's cloth armor. When they do hit, they can actually send the troll flying a tile or two back, which is pretty cool. I suggest reducing contact area.
Who uses blunt anyway? And why golden? I mean, lead is cheaper, and better...
But you are right, they are useless. But then again, why are you using hammer, when you can cut them in half with broad head?
Quote
There are no traitor dwarves, or at least they're really rare (or, my watchers aren't detecting them at all).
I have not see any either. Maybe they are really good at hiding? (Though to be fair, I have not seen any vampires in a while, so it might just be me not playing as much...)
Quote
A friendly dwarf popped up (not under my control) in a recent migrant wave. Is this a problem with the "traitor"s, or was it a werecreature in disguise? (Either way, it was murdered by the merchants, yet I still had to bury it)
Was it a trader? Friendly dwarfs appearing is a venella thing, though usually they are friendly and not slaughtered by traders.
Quote
Foundries only produce one block, not four. You probably forgot to update this from the older version where stones would always drop (with a legendary miner, at least) instead of 25% of the time.
Yep, and yep. Everyone and their grandma has mentioned this, I am going to assume it is known about.
Post by: katana on October 24, 2012, 04:02:13 am
Post by: Imp on October 24, 2012, 04:29:30 am
I'm using gold hammerheads because I have a huge amount of gold, hundreds of bars compared to other metals. You can only make hammerheads out of gold. It's not an ideal metal, but since it's dense, it should've been decent as a blunt weapon.
None of the theories or hints I mention below come from looking at the raws, though I did have me a good glimpse at the manual that comes with our favorite game before I decided to try and answer ya. So feel unspoiled in reading - unless even the manual's tmi for your playstyle 8)
You mentioned these hammerheads are being deflected by cloth armor... yet there are hints that these javelins are designed to smash through armor. Mayhap 'deflected' is slightly misused in the combat reports...
I suspect that these heavy javelins are intended to be used against heavy armors, and may be impressive if used as intended - they sound as if they are rather thick and thus probably much easier to see coming than the other sorts of sharp-tipped javelins, leading to a lot of enemies 'leaping aside, but getting a bit of the edge of their cloth armor brushed by the javelin as it passes', i.e., deflecting the javelin's path at least a tiny bit.
Instead, use them against the guys that are decked out like tanks, whom are able to laugh at your sharp edged javelins, but who simply cannot shift all that mass against inertia in time to 'dodge' your hammerheads.
Just a theory - but if you happen to be willing/able to test it, by all means please do let us know!
Post by: katana on October 24, 2012, 04:38:34 am
Your theory makes some sense in real life, but remember- we're talking about legendary marksdwarves with exceptional weapons aiming at common thieves. Half the time, targets already lying on the ground and bleeding/unconscious from regular bolts/arrows. I think we still have the problem that I had when I made my own mod ages ago- large creatures have clothing thickness scaled up, so for anything drastically larger than a dwarf, its regular clothes would be impervious to almost anything.
Post by: Imp on October 24, 2012, 04:41:08 am
I'm far too impatient to test things in the arena, so I suppose I'll wait for armored enemies.
Your theory makes some sense in real life, but remember- we're talking about legendary marksdwarves with exceptional weapons aiming at common thieves. Half the time, targets already lying on the ground and bleeding/unconscious from regular bolts/arrows. I think we still have the problem that I had when I made my own mod ages ago- large creatures have clothing thickness scaled up, so for anything drastically larger than a dwarf, its regular clothes would be impervious to almost anything.
Well, if it turns out that your gold hammerhead javs really are useless.... consider the effort required to throw a shotput versus a dart.... or for that matter how much harder it would be to throw a dart made of gold. It is possible (not certain) that golden hammerheads -could- be so much heavier than other types of javs that these cannot be properly thrown even with a thrower, which at very least should make them far easier to dodge/'deflect'.
The throwers are possibly designed to throw lighter javs, Mebby I'll get lucky one of these days and keep at a single fortress long enough to have a chance to find out for myself ???
Post by: Meph on October 24, 2012, 04:52:34 am
Post by: katana on October 24, 2012, 06:46:53 am
Post by: Stirk on October 24, 2012, 03:59:18 pm
Post by: katana on October 24, 2012, 06:25:28 pm
Just wondering if anyone knows this (trying to minimize looking in the raws, as said before): In the manual, the temple of fire is marked as not yet implemented, but exists on the buildings list, and the materials to make it appear to be available. What exactly is un-implemented with it?
Post by: narhiril on October 24, 2012, 06:32:31 pm
Troll thieves (especially master ones) are pretty funny, getting angry at people while hidden and giving themselves away.
Just wondering if anyone knows this (trying to minimize looking in the raws, as said before): In the manual, the temple of fire is marked as not yet implemented, but exists on the buildings list, and the materials to make it appear to be available. What exactly is un-implemented with it?
That's a manual error. Thanks for catching that for me.
Post by: katana on October 24, 2012, 06:47:25 pm
Anything on watchers/traitor dwarves? That entire mechanic seems to be missing.
EDIT: Certain dwarves seem to be immune to the transformations...?
EDIT2: Armor issues. Perfectly covered dwarves will not be affected by the transformation.
Post by: Stirk on October 24, 2012, 10:06:46 pm
Quote
EDIT: Certain dwarves seem to be immune to the transformations...?
EDIT2: Armor issues. Perfectly covered dwarves will not be affected by the transformation.
I have not seen that, my armored dwarfs have been preforming fine. Its more of the random nature of inhaled syndromes...
Post by: katana on October 25, 2012, 11:08:50 am
Every one of my military dwarves that wears armor + clothes (armor over clothing) is immune to the transformation. When I took the same dwarves and told them to replace clothing with armor (and uncover various body parts), they were able to transform.
Things I've found:
Transformation appears to age creatures. I took a 13 year old dwarf, and post transformation, he appeared to be 81.
If your battlefield has grass and/or items strewn about it, emberlight warrior's fireballs will burn stuff and prevent pathing, likely locking themselves for a few days while the fire burns out.
Voidwalkers are just plain underwhelming. They need much higher natural skills or something, a few competent marksdwarves shouldn't be able to kill an ambush.
EDIT: Haven't been getting artifact unique weapons at all. Just me?
Tried reloading like 9 times: long sword, long sword, spear, spear, maul, maul, mace, great axe, great axe. It seems unlikely that if the artifact-only weapons worked, I'd have failed to get one this many times.
Post by: Stirk on October 25, 2012, 05:10:40 pm
Quote
I've sorta tested this (small sample size though)-
Every one of my military dwarves that wears armor + clothes (armor over clothing) is immune to the transformation. When I took the same dwarves and told them to replace clothing with armor (and uncover various body parts), they were able to transform.
Like I said, that is a dirty pirate lie. The syndromes are inhaled. The armor has nothing to do with it.
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Transformation appears to age creatures. I took a 13 year old dwarf, and post transformation, he appeared to be 81.
Possible, but really it does nothing, unless you are going to have a game for fifty in game years...
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If your battlefield has grass and/or items strewn about it, emberlight warrior's fireballs will burn stuff and prevent pathing, likely locking themselves for a few days while the fire burns out.
Yeah. They set stuff on fire. For that information, I raise your rank Colonel. Congratulations, Colonel Obvious!
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Voidwalkers are just plain underwhelming. They need much higher natural skills or something, a few competent marksdwarves shouldn't be able to kill an ambush.
Why not? A larger group (Like a siege) can be devastating. But personally, I have been getting less voidwalker attacks lately. The Shedim seem to have that covered. Would you prefer it took a whole army to beat one of them?
Quote
EDIT: Haven't been getting artifact unique weapons at all. Just me?
Think. How many strange moods did you have? Now think again. How many of those where weapons? If your answer is less then ten, then it is highly unlikely that your strange moods would yield a special weapon.
Quote
Tried reloading like 9 times: long sword, long sword, spear, spear, maul, maul, mace, great axe, great axe. It seems unlikely that if the artifact-only weapons worked, I'd have failed to get one this many times.
Save scummer! *Wriggles finger disapprovingly*. I have not gotten a weapon personally (Though I only have gotten a handful in my whole career....) though I have gotten several hats, a soap shield, and several other mod things, so there is no reason to assume you can't get them.
You should probably get more information before making assumptions, considering the random nature of it all.
Post by: katana on October 25, 2012, 05:25:49 pm
Second- my game's been going for 20 already. Who knows.
Third- Sorry, last time I played was 31.25.
Fourth- We're talking roughly even numbers of non-elite dwarves VS void walkers. I think the almighty feared nigh-godlike civ deserves better than that. For their supposed deadliness, one ambush group even failed to kill a group of dwarven caravan guards.
Fifth- Assuming every weapon has an equal chance of appearing, there are apparently 60 or so "mood" weapons, and approximately 10-15 normally available weapons. This gives me roughly 80% chance to get a mood weapon per mood assuming weapon types are not weighted. I've had 3 weaponsmith moods (along with a few bone carvers, they occasionally make weapons too), all giving me weapons from my civ only.
Sixth- If I want to test something that might be a bug, am I meant to wait for every individual mood? I reloaded 9 times on the third weapon mood. If I have a 20% chance of getting a regular weapon, and I roll this 9 times in a row, I have a feeling something's not working properly.
The mod things you've gotten all sound available to the dwarves through regular crafting (sure you can't make soap shields, but you can make some form of shield etc.), so it's not the same.
Post by: Stirk on October 25, 2012, 05:45:25 pm
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First- I admitted was due to small sample size, and have found that you're right.
Of course. I am always right.
Quote
Second- my game's been going for 20 already. Who knows.
In it's worst case, you will end up with a dead dwarf. I can't dig a hole without losing three, not like it is a big loss.
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Third- Sorry, last time I played was 31.25.
I just assumed that a casual observer could notice "Throwing fireballs around everywhere=forest fires starting". A good deal of post have been dedicated to this, many people have built defenses around this. Pyro zingers are the other fire hazard...
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Fourth- We're talking roughly even numbers of non-elite dwarves VS void walkers. I think the almighty feared nigh-godlike civ deserves better than that.
You under-estimate the power of the crossbows. A squad of dwarves can beat a super saiyan with normal crossbows, a decent squad can take anything really.
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Fifth- Assuming every weapon has an equal chance of appearing, there are apparently 60 or so "mood" weapons, and approximately 10-15 normally available weapons. This gives me roughly 80% chance to get a mood weapon per mood assuming weapon types are not weighted. I've had 3 weaponsmith moods (along with a few bone carvers, they occasionally make weapons too), all giving me weapons from my civ only.
3? How many artifacts do you have?
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Sixth- If I want to test something that might be a bug, am I meant to wait for every individual mood? I reloaded 9 times on the third weapon mood. If I have a 20% chance of getting a regular weapon, and I roll this 9 times in a row, I have a feeling something's not working properly.
No- you should dissect it. Why not just go into the raws and look yourself? Much faster.
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The mod things you've gotten all sound available to the dwarves through regular crafting (sure you can't make soap shields, but you can make shields etc.), so it's not the same.
Yeah- it really is. It was a heraldic shield, which you can't get, it was a top hat, which you can't make, etc.
-----------------------------
EDIT
Waitwaitwait....You have had a fortress for twenty in game years-but you don't even have a decent military of marksdwarves yet? I can get a full squad up with forty people and make them all Legendary in a year, I can't fathom how you could even live that long without a dozen guns on your side.
Post by: katana on October 25, 2012, 06:27:25 pm
It might turn out that these mood weapons are weighted to be less likely or something, but I've gone 11 weaponsmith tries (3x different dwarves) without anything. While typing this, I got another possessed weaponsmith- gladius. Another readily available weapon type.
I think voidwalkers should get higher natural skills, especially dodge or shield user. Their only real advantage over dwarves appears to be equipment and size. In my opinion, one should be at least an even match for an elite (between great and legendary +0 in weapon skill) dwarf. My melee dwarves also destroy them...
I now have 4 artifact weapons:
Adamantine longsword
Adamantine longsword
Adamantine gladius
Low-grade mithril battle axe
(and an enormous rat bone corkscrew)
All of which I can create normally.
EDIT: Just to be clear, the "mood" weapons do exist- I've gotten them from exotic weaponsmithing.
EDIT2: Random fact- the gladius' name is womenshafts.
Post by: Stirk on October 25, 2012, 06:53:18 pm
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I had some marksdwarf recruits at a new, further away fortification, so they found the ambush first.
Without training them first? I will have to assume you wanted them to die, and are simply disappointing that the void walkers where unable to accomplish that.
Putting ten (Being a standard squad amount) marksdwarfs at even adept level in a decent formation with silver bolts against anything from a dragon, to an exiled rift warden, to a bronze collusus. Go ahead and try it out in arena.
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he whole fireball thing was a result of me being used to creatures ignoring fire when considering pathing. (which is the way it's been since fire was added until recently) I never officially knew of the change until now, and it isn't very well documented on the wiki
Did you prefer it when they got themselves burned?
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What am I meant to look for in the raws? I'm pretty sure that there are no tags that determine if a weapon is moodable or not
Exactly. So why wouldn't it be moodable?....
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It might turn out that these mood weapons are weighted to be less likely or something, but I've gone 11 weaponsmith tries (3x different dwarves) without anything.
Oh, so that must mean it is impossible. Put away your vanadium katana, guys! This guy says it is impossible!
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I think voidwalkers should get higher natural skills, especially dodge or shield user. Their only real advantage over dwarves appears to be equipment and size. In my opinion, one should be at least an even match for an elite (between great and legendary +0 in weapon skill) dwarf. My melee dwarves also destroy them...
How many viodwalker sieges have you gone threw? It is a well balanced game, and it isn't like that will stop a hail of crossbows couldn't stop them. Your melee dwarves also destroy them, but in theory they are in admintine armor (Considering you know, the whole "Your a cheap hacker" and "you have admantine elsewhere"0
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I now have 4 artifact weapons:
Adamantine longsword
Adamantine longsword
Adamantine gladius
Low-grade mithril battle axe
(and an enormous rat bone corkscrew)
All of which I can create normally.
Three admantine weapons? Looks like someone has been haxing again.
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EDIT: Just to be clear, the "mood" weapons do exist- I've gotten them from exotic weaponsmithing.
Really? So you are saying that we have not tossed one of the huge modifications of this fortress? Huh. Imagine that.
Post by: katana on October 25, 2012, 07:02:33 pm
QuoteI had some marksdwarf recruits at a new, further away fortification, so they found the ambush first.
Without training them first? I will have to assume you wanted them to die, and are simply disappointing that the void walkers where unable to accomplish that.
Fortification. Almost every enemy up to then had been melee. When lore states that a civ is feared for their ranged weapons, you sorta expect them to have elite archers...
Putting ten (Being a standard squad amount) marksdwarfs at even adept level in a decent formation with silver bolts against anything from a dragon, to an exiled rift warden, to a bronze collusus. Go ahead and try it out in arena.Quotehe whole fireball thing was a result of me being used to creatures ignoring fire when considering pathing. (which is the way it's been since fire was added until recently) I never officially knew of the change until now, and it isn't very well documented on the wiki
Did you prefer it when they got themselves burned?
When did I say that?QuoteWhat am I meant to look for in the raws? I'm pretty sure that there are no tags that determine if a weapon is moodable or not
Exactly. So why wouldn't it be moodable?....
Because something in the game broke for one reason or another.QuoteIt might turn out that these mood weapons are weighted to be less likely or something, but I've gone 11 weaponsmith tries (3x different dwarves) without anything.
Oh, so that must mean it is impossible. Put away your vanadium katana, guys! This guy says it is impossible!
How old is that screenshot? I've gotten random mooded weapons in other versions. I don't like my current theory either, but from what I'm doing, it seems to be correct. Or I broke something else somehow.QuoteI think voidwalkers should get higher natural skills, especially dodge or shield user. Their only real advantage over dwarves appears to be equipment and size. In my opinion, one should be at least an even match for an elite (between great and legendary +0 in weapon skill) dwarf. My melee dwarves also destroy them...
How many viodwalker sieges have you gone threw? It is a well balanced game, and it isn't like that will stop a hail of crossbows couldn't stop them. Your melee dwarves also destroy them, but in theory they are in admintine armor (Considering you know, the whole "Your a cheap hacker" and "you have admantine elsewhere"0
They're armored in a mix of bronze, steel, damascus steel.QuoteI now have 4 artifact weapons:
Adamantine longsword
Adamantine longsword
Adamantine gladius
Low-grade mithril battle axe
(and an enormous rat bone corkscrew)
All of which I can create normally.
Three admantine weapons? Looks like someone has been haxing again.
Dwarves pick the highest value metal unless they have a preference for something else. Are you seriously claiming that by having 3 wafers of adamantine, I'm cheating?QuoteEDIT: Just to be clear, the "mood" weapons do exist- I've gotten them from exotic weaponsmithing.
Really? So you are saying that we have not tossed one of the huge modifications of this fortress? Huh. Imagine that.
When these things happen, most (logical) people would question if the mod was installed properly, and ask the complainer to check. If the weapons didn't exist then I would've screwed up something in installation somehow, and it wouldn't be an issue with the mod/dwarf fortress.
Not sure if trolling, or...
Post by: Stirk on October 25, 2012, 07:14:04 pm
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Fortification. Almost every enemy up to then had been melee. When lore states that a civ is feared for their ranged weapons, you sorta expect them to have elite archers...
They have what are basically guns, and are usually able to kill weak marksdwarfs in mas. Once again, your basing things off of ignorance. Have you even had a siege yet?
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When did I say that?
You play dwarf fortress, so it is assumed.
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Because something in the game broke for one reason or another.
Which of course happens randomly and all the time. Lines of code run out of breaker fluid or something?
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How old is that screenshot? I've gotten random mooded weapons in other versions. I don't like my current theory either, but from what I'm doing, it seems to be correct. Or I broke something else somehow.
11 tests don't prove a theory, they barley make an argument.
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They're armored in a mix of bronze, steel, damascus steel.
....So you DO want them to die. Why not something better? You apparently have a lot of void walker weapons lying around, why not smelt them down and make some nice armor?
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Dwarves pick the highest value metal unless they have a preference for something else. Are you seriously claiming that by having 3 wafers of adamantine, I'm cheating?
Yep. Especially if your going around using BRONZE for the majority of your troops. I don't think I have ever used bronze, how did you even use that?
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When these things happen, most (logical) people would question if the mod was installed properly, and ask the complainer to check. If the weapons didn't exist then I would've screwed up something in installation somehow, and it wouldn't be an issue with the mod/dwarf fortress.
With the difficult "copy" and "Paste" options that always haunt logical people.
Post by: katana on October 25, 2012, 07:21:06 pm
And for the record- when your code randomly generates something and then bases things off of that, you sometimes forget to check if certain values will screw other things up. How many random variables are there in dwarf fortress? Can you even name them? Now imagine if one of those threw off everything. I've missed this when making less complex things before...
Post by: Putnam on October 25, 2012, 07:41:37 pm
Post by: katana on October 25, 2012, 07:43:48 pm
Note that dwarves need a preference for an exotic weapon to create them with moods.There we go.
Now to find which of my novice weaponsmith army actually has preferences for the cool weapons.
EDIT: Bad RNG! Bad! :c
Post by: Stirk on October 25, 2012, 07:48:13 pm
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I give up.
So by the laws of the internet, I WIN!
Wait. You didn't give up. You keep writing...
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d for the record- when your code randomly generates something and then bases things off of that, you sometimes forget to check if certain values will screw other things up.
What value effects strange moods like that?
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How many random variables are there in dwarf fortress?
My sources say "OVER 9000!!!!!11! >:( >:(!"
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Can you even name them?
Of course. UristMcbob. UristMcjohn. UristMcain. Not sure what that has to do with anything.
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Now imagine if one of those threw off everythin
Well considering that this has NOTHING TO DO WITH VARIABLES, I would be really, really surprised.
Post by: greycat on October 25, 2012, 07:55:24 pm
11 tests don't prove a theory, they barley make an argument.
11 trials, all with the same result, can be sufficient to cast serious doubt on a hypothesis. Depending on the hypothesis.
Example: an experiment is conducted in which a coin is flipped, resulting in heads or tails. Our hypothesis is that the coin is "fair" (50% chance of each outcome). If we get 11 heads in a row, we've got statistically strong evidence against our hypothesis. (The odds of 11 heads in a row if the coin is fair are 1 in 2048, or 0.049%.)
Quote from: katana
If I have a 20% chance of getting a regular weapon, and I roll this 9 times in a row, I have a feeling something's not working properly.
Your hypothesis was that you had an 80% chance of a "special" weapon, and you got 11 failures in 11 trials. The odds of an 80% event failing 11 times in a row are 1 in 48,828,125. You've pretty much proved that your original hypothesis was incorrect.
Post by: Imp on October 25, 2012, 09:22:26 pm
If that's the case, you can scum your moody dwarf's creation as often as you like, you'll have 0% chance of seeing one of those exotics from it.
This mod is heralded to be incredibly different. Quotes from the first post: "Countless hidden features and easter eggs which, individually, will not affect gameplay 99 out of 100 times, but are there to be discovered. No playthrough will be the same!" and "When you get a weaponsmith in a strange mood with my mod (or in the unlockable "weapons concept laboratory"), you have no idea what you're going to get. Maybe you'll get a boring old sword or axe, or maybe you'll get "Blacktemples, a mithril khopesh," or "Hauntedrazor, a damascus steel pair of bladed chains." Legendary weapons should be legendary. Your civilization will be known forever for the weapon it creates, which will truly be one-of-a-kind. "
How rare does something have to be, for our (usually very accurate and honest) Narhiril to state that such things "will truly be one-of-a-kind"? I say, very rare indeed. Play/playtest all you want Sir; our modder has promised us a game which will never play the same twice.... and for that matter, this has so far proven true for you too, has it not?
This is, in my opinion, the VERY greatest of the Easter Egg mods (and the very greatest of all other mod categories, but I've more proof to support the Easter Egg category than the others).
Another detail I'd like to comment on, you mentioned running into some disappointing voidwalkers.
I've met some wimpy voidwalkers too. And plenty that were not. Usually intermixed within the same game. There's nothing to say that this one playthrough you are doing now might even have a civilization of voidwalkers who are almost all wimps - that certainly would be a unique happening that I know of. Then again, voidwalkers have their own type of very special projectile weapon, and impressive aim at a distance, even through fortifications... Maybe your game just needs a little more time for them dice to keep rolling.
I expect that THIS mod is going to be very hard for you to accurately define the odds on. It's designed to be very variable; not just across one game but across many games. I suspect some of the random stuff gets decided during world generation, and that there are scads of surprises that absolutely cannot possibly happen in any specific game that is already being played, because the variables that allow for them have already been selected against - that's one very nice way to guarantee that no playthrough will -ever- be the same, after all.
So keep writing of your adventures, and your satisfied or frustrated desires to delimitate and define what you see happening and what you think that means for every other playthrough too - I'd only advise that you perhaps phrase your findings either within the framework of a truly impressive pile of varied experiments that test what you believe you see, or that you speak of them as 'this is what's happening in my game', without adding in 'thus it's what happens in this mod for everyone'. That's likely to keep those of us with teeth and troll-thirst benign, if not benevolent, as we consider your words and decide how to answer you.
Post by: Putnam on October 25, 2012, 09:38:32 pm
Here's another possibility - what if exotic weapons and weapons are not in the same category, and when the mood starts it is already decided if you will be getting an exotic weapon OR a normal one?
As a modder, I can tell you that that is not the case. It is exactly as I said. They make an exotic weapon if they have a preference for it. If they don't, you don't get one.
However, this exact fact is what makes LFR so wonderful--it's a rare event. Nearly everything in LFR is a rare event. It's just that there's a large enough amount that at least one will happen in your fort's lifetime, if it lasts a while.
Post by: Stirk on October 25, 2012, 09:40:49 pm
Quote
Here's another possibility - what if exotic weapons and weapons are not in the same category, and when the mood starts it is already decided if you will be getting an exotic weapon OR a normal one?
Looking into the raws, that is false. They are in the same category, and I don't even know if it is possible to get another category. The simplest way to find something out isn't to test it, it is to go into what creates it and see what it says.
Post by: Putnam on October 25, 2012, 09:41:56 pm
QuoteHere's another possibility - what if exotic weapons and weapons are not in the same category, and when the mood starts it is already decided if you will be getting an exotic weapon OR a normal one?
Looking into the raws, that is false. They are in the same category, and I don't even know if it is possible to get another category. The simplest way to find something out isn't to test it, it is to go into what creates it and see what it says.
Exotic weapons aren't something you can mod with the raws, since they're defined as "weapons that are not defined as makeable in the entity raw".
Post by: narhiril on October 26, 2012, 12:18:36 am
QuoteHere's another possibility - what if exotic weapons and weapons are not in the same category, and when the mood starts it is already decided if you will be getting an exotic weapon OR a normal one?
Looking into the raws, that is false. They are in the same category, and I don't even know if it is possible to get another category. The simplest way to find something out isn't to test it, it is to go into what creates it and see what it says.
There was a change a while back that Toady made where strange mood weaponsmiths would only choose their weapon type from the entity's permitted weapons UNLESS the strange mood dwarf in particular had a preference for another weapon type. As this seriously skewed the probability of getting an unusual mod weapon, the weapons concept lab was added to compensate for this scarcity.
You CAN still get a khopesh, pair of katara, felling axe, etc. from a weaponsmith's strange mood, but ONLY if the dwarf in the strange mood has a preference for it. If those odds aren't good enough for you, there's the weapons concept lab for churning out some random ones. This is the best I can do without any access to the source code.
It does kind of make sense, though, that a dwarf would be inspired to master his craft by creating a pinnacle of one of his culture's signature weapons.
Note that this change was ONLY made for WEAPONSMITHS. Bowyers, bone carvers, tailors, etc. will still select their artifact type at random, ignoring the entity's permissions.
Post by: katana on October 26, 2012, 06:11:07 am
Here's another possibility - what if exotic weapons and weapons are not in the same category, and when the mood starts it is already decided if you will be getting an exotic weapon OR a normal one?
If that's the case, you can scum your moody dwarf's creation as often as you like, you'll have 0% chance of seeing one of those exotics from it.
This mod is heralded to be incredibly different. Quotes from the first post: "Countless hidden features and easter eggs which, individually, will not affect gameplay 99 out of 100 times, but are there to be discovered. No playthrough will be the same!" and "When you get a weaponsmith in a strange mood with my mod (or in the unlockable "weapons concept laboratory"), you have no idea what you're going to get. Maybe you'll get a boring old sword or axe, or maybe you'll get "Blacktemples, a mithril khopesh," or "Hauntedrazor, a damascus steel pair of bladed chains." Legendary weapons should be legendary. Your civilization will be known forever for the weapon it creates, which will truly be one-of-a-kind. "
I know narhiril already explained what happened, but you need to remember- Unless you're able to do something like me (train every single dwarf to adequate weaponsmith), weaponsmith moods will be rare. I'm guessing a typical fortress not actively looking for weaponsmith moods would get 10 at most, and likely much less. WIth 60 new weapon types along with the original 15 or so available wepaons, it's quite likely that things will be unique per playthrough.
How rare does something have to be, for our (usually very accurate and honest) Narhiril to state that such things "will truly be one-of-a-kind"? I say, very rare indeed. Play/playtest all you want Sir; our modder has promised us a game which will never play the same twice.... and for that matter, this has so far proven true for you too, has it not?
This is, in my opinion, the VERY greatest of the Easter Egg mods (and the very greatest of all other mod categories, but I've more proof to support the Easter Egg category than the others).
Oh god the carbuncles my poor lungs they were everywhere D:
Another detail I'd like to comment on, you mentioned running into some disappointing voidwalkers.
I've met some wimpy voidwalkers too. And plenty that were not. Usually intermixed within the same game. There's nothing to say that this one playthrough you are doing now might even have a civilization of voidwalkers who are almost all wimps - that certainly would be a unique happening that I know of. Then again, voidwalkers have their own type of very special projectile weapon, and impressive aim at a distance, even through fortifications... Maybe your game just needs a little more time for them dice to keep rolling.
As said before, I've been playing this fort for roughly 20 years. Maybe you're right and I do need some time, but I'm pretty sure I'm at around the limit where a typical fort dies or is quit for one reason or another.
I expect that THIS mod is going to be very hard for you to accurately define the odds on. It's designed to be very variable; not just across one game but across many games. I suspect some of the random stuff gets decided during world generation, and that there are scads of surprises that absolutely cannot possibly happen in any specific game that is already being played, because the variables that allow for them have already been selected against - that's one very nice way to guarantee that no playthrough will -ever- be the same, after all.
So keep writing of your adventures, and your satisfied or frustrated desires to delimitate and define what you see happening and what you think that means for every other playthrough too - I'd only advise that you perhaps phrase your findings either within the framework of a truly impressive pile of varied experiments that test what you believe you see, or that you speak of them as 'this is what's happening in my game', without adding in 'thus it's what happens in this mod for everyone'. That's likely to keep those of us with teeth and troll-thirst benign, if not benevolent, as we consider your words and decide how to answer you.
(how do you end up with a wimpy civ? I'm not really sure how that works. Will they actually have lower skills than others? If so, ignore the next part. Also- should I leave worldgens long when using this mod? I've been using minimum years out of habit from when kobolds would starve.)
Since I doubt there were castes created specifically to have a "weaker" version of voidwalkers, this means that all voidwalker invaders will have roughly the same skill levels. Every other enemy invader I've ever seen in various has some form of "elite" troop leading a group of lesser ones. It might just be me, but the lore makes it sound like killing even one of them should be a challenge.
I just realized that I'm using overpowered weapons (crossbows, bows) quite a bit, so I'll try some other playthroughs before commenting on enemy balance.
There are certain things I'm pretty sure don't change based on world generation.
The effect of a preset syndrome (to transform creatures) shouldn't change, or we wouldn't end up with the same blessed warriors.
Weapon moods aren't affected by worldgen at all, and that was confirmed to be sorta buggy.
I commented on the strength of an individual voidwalker. I've never seen a case of specific creatures in a civ being stronger/weaker based on worldgen- only their numbers, aggressiveness etc.
I haven't commented on things like devourers of the depths being too common, crystal dragons not existing, or anything that worldgen and luck play a huge part in, have I?
Post by: Pan on October 26, 2012, 06:29:26 am
Post by: katana on October 26, 2012, 06:52:31 am
Woah! Suddenly LoFR turns from a crypt to the House of Parliament.Is that a good thing? :c
Anyway, a few pages back some friend/school issues were mentioned, not sure if they still apply.
EDIT: Caved in and looked at raws. Saboteurs are created through curses, so anyone with short worldgens may end up with little/none.
Post by: Pan on October 26, 2012, 11:52:47 am
Post by: katana on October 26, 2012, 02:31:30 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/PrNe2.png)
Rakshasa scratches are "scratchess" instead of "scratches".
Post by: Pan on October 26, 2012, 10:33:02 pm
By the way, anyone else seen th
Post by: katana on October 27, 2012, 05:39:53 am
I'm also wondering- maybe it doesn't age dwarves, but it sets them to middle age? I'll test this when I get some dwarves 110 or so years old, if I actually make it there.
Post by: ArchAIngel on October 27, 2012, 01:16:03 pm
It would probably need fairly high level magnetic tech, or a new tree, but it would be fun and !!FUN!!
Post by: Putnam on October 27, 2012, 01:19:04 pm
Post by: ArchAIngel on October 27, 2012, 01:24:45 pm
Post by: Putnam on October 27, 2012, 01:27:29 pm
Post by: katana on October 27, 2012, 03:11:39 pm
Post by: fire1666 on October 30, 2012, 02:51:09 pm
or is that still up to debate...
(please be before christmas)
Post by: Tarkanos on October 31, 2012, 09:17:46 am
Post by: Meph on October 31, 2012, 09:32:25 am
Post by: Man of Paper on October 31, 2012, 09:33:21 am
How good is an advanced bayonet dart launcher? I've had probably about zero experience with dart launchers.
Oh, and our second artifact was an iron crossbow with an image of some nephilim prostrating themselves before another dwarf as he proclaimed lordship over their hamlet or whatever. I don't delve into Legends much, so is that land grabbing, or just victory over the wing noobs?
Post by: Tarkanos on October 31, 2012, 09:44:55 am
It does generate flux stone, but the site finder cant find it. It just wont show at the embark screen, but it is there.I thought that might be the other answer, but it seemed less likely. Thanks!
Post by: katana on October 31, 2012, 10:52:24 am
So my first artifact in my first fort in a while was "Topspies (Top Spies or Tops Pies? I like either option) the Lovely Lens, an advanced birchen bayonet dart launcher, adorned with hanging rings of birch and decorated with the image of our king ascending to the throne in Year 1. He is also a vampire.
How good is an advanced bayonet dart launcher? I've had probably about zero experience with dart launchers.
Oh, and our second artifact was an iron crossbow with an image of some nephilim prostrating themselves before another dwarf as he proclaimed lordship over their hamlet or whatever. I don't delve into Legends much, so is that land grabbing, or just victory over the wing noobs?
Dart launchers are apparently railguns lore-wise, I'm pretty sure that translates to "pretty damn powerful".
Post by: Stirk on October 31, 2012, 03:55:25 pm
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Dart launchers are apparently railguns lore-wise, I'm pretty sure that translates to "pretty damn powerful".
MAGNETIC dart launchers are railguns. Dart launchers with a bayonet are still dart launchers. This is an advanced dart launchers, so it is a railgun with a bayonet.
They are pretty good, assuming you can make magnetic darts. They are basically a crossbow with smaller ammo and a higher clip rate, so the dwarves can take more.
Post by: katana on October 31, 2012, 04:09:29 pm
Post by: Man of Paper on October 31, 2012, 04:18:21 pm
Post by: Meph on October 31, 2012, 04:20:36 pm
Post by: katana on October 31, 2012, 04:30:15 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Stirk on October 31, 2012, 05:01:38 pm
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Aren't all dart launchers magnetic? Bayonet dart launchers being magnetic dart launchers that had a bayonet attached. I may be remembering wrong.
No. Most are blown, like the one normal underground creatures have. The advanced ones use magnets.
Post by: Meph on October 31, 2012, 07:50:56 pm
Post by: fire1666 on November 02, 2012, 11:14:31 am
about the voidwalkermod i had plans for BUT i also had ideas for a Shade race.
I have a few plans from there race but i think i could swap them over for the Voidwalkers, let me know if these are good ideas...
Note this was directed a guy whos name on the forum comprised of Toxic (Toxicshadow)
Hi there toxic i had some ideas for buildings for the shades, i can think of some reactions for them too if you want, the names and the requirements to build can be changed if nessasary but i think there fairly good.
1: Shadowy compressor ( MASONRY to build 4 worthless stone and 4 stone mechanisms) basicly creates slade from normal stone's, but can also make slade blocks from those slade stones, can produce slade anvils from slade blocks(2 slade blocks needed), and slade altars from slade blocks (4 slade blocks needed)
2: Darkened slade heater (ARCATECT AND FURNACE OPPERATOR to build 8 slade blocks 8 stone mechanisms) Supper heats the slade blocks into slade supper heated fragments, provides fuel (12 slade fuel from 1 block :D)
3: Darkend Weaponry (WEAPONSMITH to build 8 slade blocks 2 slade bolders,12 stone mechanisms, 4 statues and 1 slade anvil) produces the shade's weapon's of war from Zakarnite (see 6: for how to produce this metal)(NO INCLUDING RANGED WEAPONS) they should have at least 1 or 2 melee weapons of each type so 2 blunt weapons (hammers maces ect) 2 bladed weapons (swords axes ect) and 2 peirce weapons (spears halbards ect)
4: Darkend fletchary (CROSSBOWMAKING [i think thats the skill] to build 8 slade blocks 2 slade bolders,12 stone mechanisms, 4 statues, 1 weapon rack) produces the shades ranged weapons of war at least 2 types (preferable a crossbow and a type of darkness crossbow or normal bow like weapon [more on darkness later ill make seperate post for that ;-)] the darkness bow/cross bow should be FAR more powerful then a normal crossbow or bow) can also produce ammuniton from slade and can even fashion slade quivers from slade blocks
5: Darkend armoury (ARMOURSMITH to build 8 slade blocks 2 slade bolders,12 stone mechanisms, 4 statues, 1 slade anvil and 1 armour rack) produces the shades protective armour from Zakarnite (see 6: for how to produce this metal) full plate armour, shields ect.
6: Zakarnite fabricator (ALCHEMY to build 8 slade blocks 12 stone mechanisms 8 statues 1 slade altar) The Shades have learnd a way of turning the "inferior" metals of this world into a very powerful metal called Zakarnite, Zakarnite is about 1.5 times better then steel in all ways, but is harder to produce,(hard part... making reactions to throw metal bars into the altar for a chance of Zakarnite[copy paste city]).
Post by: fire1666 on November 02, 2012, 11:17:52 am
Hi guys i had an idea.ARGH DOUBLE POST / BUMP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
about the voidwalkermod i had plans for BUT i also had ideas for a Shade race.
I have a few plans from there race but i think i could swap them over for the Voidwalkers, let me know if these are good ideas...
Note this was directed a guy whos name on the forum comprised of Toxic (Toxicshadow)
Hi there toxic i had some ideas for buildings for the shades, i can think of some reactions for them too if you want, the names and the requirements to build can be changed if nessasary but i think there fairly good.
1: Shadowy compressor ( MASONRY to build 4 worthless stone and 4 stone mechanisms) basicly creates slade from normal stone's, but can also make slade blocks from those slade stones, can produce slade anvils from slade blocks(2 slade blocks needed), and slade altars from slade blocks (4 slade blocks needed)
2: Darkened slade heater (ARCATECT AND FURNACE OPPERATOR to build 8 slade blocks 8 stone mechanisms) Supper heats the slade blocks into slade supper heated fragments, provides fuel (12 slade fuel from 1 block :D)
3: Darkend Weaponry (WEAPONSMITH to build 8 slade blocks 2 slade bolders,12 stone mechanisms, 4 statues and 1 slade anvil) produces the shade's weapon's of war from Zakarnite (see 6: for how to produce this metal)(NO INCLUDING RANGED WEAPONS) they should have at least 1 or 2 melee weapons of each type so 2 blunt weapons (hammers maces ect) 2 bladed weapons (swords axes ect) and 2 peirce weapons (spears halbards ect)
4: Darkend fletchary (CROSSBOWMAKING [i think thats the skill] to build 8 slade blocks 2 slade bolders,12 stone mechanisms, 4 statues, 1 weapon rack) produces the shades ranged weapons of war at least 2 types (preferable a crossbow and a type of darkness crossbow or normal bow like weapon [more on darkness later ill make seperate post for that ;-)] the darkness bow/cross bow should be FAR more powerful then a normal crossbow or bow) can also produce ammuniton from slade and can even fashion slade quivers from slade blocks
5: Darkend armoury (ARMOURSMITH to build 8 slade blocks 2 slade bolders,12 stone mechanisms, 4 statues, 1 slade anvil and 1 armour rack) produces the shades protective armour from Zakarnite (see 6: for how to produce this metal) full plate armour, shields ect.
6: Zakarnite fabricator (ALCHEMY to build 8 slade blocks 12 stone mechanisms 8 statues 1 slade altar) The Shades have learnd a way of turning the "inferior" metals of this world into a very powerful metal called Zakarnite, Zakarnite is about 1.5 times better then steel in all ways, but is harder to produce,(hard part... making reactions to throw metal bars into the altar for a chance of Zakarnite[copy paste city]).
the shades are very simular to voidwalkers in design and style.
Replace Zakarnite and shades with voidshard and voidwalkers
TO AVOID 3rd POST
the voidwalkers / shades should have a main building (like a town hall from age of empires) that is needed to make the building's most important parts (Void-energy-Print [building])
Post by: katana on November 02, 2012, 11:20:23 am
Post by: fire1666 on November 02, 2012, 11:26:54 am
We've got enough straight upgrades to steel, new metals should fill a different niche.The main plan was the shades had a focus on either spears or axes so the material would have to have to hold edge 'well' at least thats why they forged Zakarnite from the souls of the dwarfs/elfs/humans that that killed. Which now serves as an almost infinite source from ritural advances.
Since i might not make them but now make good old VOIDIES playable I might scrap the material.
Post by: Pan on November 03, 2012, 03:18:57 am
Post by: Deon on November 03, 2012, 03:24:04 am
Post by: narhiril on November 03, 2012, 06:15:20 am
Narhiril, the evil races are too weak in this game in world gen. Nephilim and humans own shedim in world gen, and bog trolls are nowhere to be found. Could they be buffed up in any way? Most worlds are quite benign and friendly, with even elves owning shedim in world gen.
I've found that this is a difficult thing to tweak directly, and I'm still often left scratching my head as to why certain races seem to dominate. I'm going to play around with the litter sizes and see if I can get it a little bit more balanced.
Is there a reason why glistening voidshard isn't magma-safe, balance or lore-wise?Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Of course it's not great against demons, it's... oh wait, I haven't revealed that yet. Oops.
Woah! Suddenly LoFR turns from a crypt to the House of Parliament. Glad Narhiril's back :) What's the progress, if I may ask?
Getting close. Still finishing up temple building materials, the new ritual transformation reactions, a few graphics, and a few other minor details. Documentation also hasn't quite caught up with the newest features, so I'm pushing to get that done as well. Honestly the most difficult part has been finding exactly where I left off on a lot of these things (I keep my own logs, but it's still a bit of a search), and that's mostly done now. Barring any unforeseen events (meteor impact, plague, tsunami in the midwest, etc), I think it's fair to finally say I'm back on track here.
A few of the constructs planned for this update are going to be backlogged and finished after I can finish and release everything that's partially or almost done. Right now, just mantises made it into the upcoming release, but expect tarantulas and scarabs to follow in the weeks after. I'm also tossing around ideas for farming woody plants, but that won't make it into this update.
Spoiler: Projected update notes (subject to modification) (click to show/hide)
The change in bold is one that I can't recall if I've discussed at any length or not. Basically, I'm scrapping the material components of transformations, and making the only necessary component available through prayer. The more your dwarves pray to a god, the more chances you get to make that god's ritual units. It makes a lot more sense and should be a lot less frustrating that way.
Post by: Pan on November 03, 2012, 01:10:13 pm
And looking forward to the release!
Post by: katana on November 03, 2012, 02:04:56 pm
Giving the shedim a truly terrifying caste that would actually require an army to kill would be interesting, and probably let them stomp on others in worldgen.
EDIT: Fun fact- blessed dwarves will give birth to blessed children. BABY OF LEMOX.
Post by: fire1666 on November 04, 2012, 06:55:53 am
I like the idea of the prayers, the current system is frustrating with dwarves giving up on hauling everything to the ritual or just plain not having materials because I'm doing something else with them.Like a biological tank or mech?
Giving the shedim a truly terrifying caste that would actually require an army to kill would be interesting, and probably let them stomp on others in worldgen.
EDIT: Fun fact- blessed dwarves will give birth to blessed children. BABY OF LEMOX.
I had a simular idea for the voidies, a Void-distructor a voidwalker with absurd melee capabilitys but very fragile at range or very fragile without armour
Post by: katana on November 04, 2012, 10:13:19 am
I like the idea of the prayers, the current system is frustrating with dwarves giving up on hauling everything to the ritual or just plain not having materials because I'm doing something else with them.Like a biological tank or mech?
Giving the shedim a truly terrifying caste that would actually require an army to kill would be interesting, and probably let them stomp on others in worldgen.
EDIT: Fun fact- blessed dwarves will give birth to blessed children. BABY OF LEMOX.
I had a simular idea for the voidies, a Void-distructor a voidwalker with absurd melee capabilitys but very fragile at range or very fragile without armour
Absurd melee capabilities in this game mean being untouchable (say, legendary+20 dodging natural skill level). Being fragile at a range while absurdly powerful in melee isn't possible because of weapon parries being based on melee skill level. Being fragile without armor would mean that all you'd need is two dwarves and it'd go down easily because it can't instantly attack two dwarves at the same time (with a weapon).
You know what enemies are missing? Webs and heavy armor. Webs to make ranged weapons a necessity (ever fought a giant cave spider? Full legendary elite squads can't rush one). Extremely heavy armor that shrugs off bolts without problem, and protects the entire body with one piece of armor (hadrine plate robe?) so enemy civs won't come half-armored. For added evil, combine both :D
Seriously though- a web spewing shedim could be interesting.
Post by: Stirk on November 04, 2012, 03:26:11 pm
Quote
Absurd melee capabilities in this game mean being untouchable (say, legendary+20 dodging natural skill level)
Last I checked, it only goes up to +5.
Quote
Being fragile at a range while absurdly powerful in melee isn't possible because of weapon parries being based on melee skill level.
Actually it is really easy. Being made out of steel, for example, would make you immune to all weapons below steel. But in range, you would still be vulnerable to even wooden bolts.
Quote
Being fragile without armor would mean that all you'd need is two dwarves and it'd go down easily because it can't instantly attack two dwarves at the same time (with a weapon).
Wha....What? It would have armor on. Go to the arena and put a dwarf in adamantine armor against two dwarves with steel weapons and lets see what happens.
Have...Have you ever played dwarf fortress before?
Quote
You know what enemies are missing? Webs and heavy armor. Webs to make ranged weapons a necessity (ever fought a giant cave spider? Full legendary elite squads can't rush one).
Why webs? Just why?
Quote
Extremely heavy armor that shrugs off bolts without problem, and protects the entire body with one piece of armor (hadrine plate robe?) so enemy civs won't come half-armored.
Now take that dwarf in full adamantine armor and put him against a single dwarf with a crossbow and wooden bolts. Notice how it doesn't block anything. At all.
Do you even know how the armor system works in dwarf fortress?
Post by: katana on November 04, 2012, 04:23:55 pm
Now take that dwarf in full adamantine armor and put him against a single dwarf with a crossbow and wooden bolts. Notice how it doesn't block anything. At all.
Do you even know how the armor system works in dwarf fortress?
I know I've sworn to ignore you, but seriously. Crossbow research thread.
Post by: Stirk on November 04, 2012, 04:28:53 pm
Quote
I know I've sworn to ignore you, but seriously. Crossbow research thread.
Apparently you are not very good at swearing things. Or researching things.
The flying mangrove bolt strikes Dwarf 2 in the upper leg, chipping the bone threw the small adamantine chain leggings!
The flying mangrove bolt striked Dwarf 2 in the upper body, tearing the muscle and tearing the liver threw the small adamantine breast plate!
Etc. Etc.
Post by: katana on November 04, 2012, 04:36:33 pm
Post by: Xantalos on November 04, 2012, 04:37:19 pm
Post by: Stirk on November 04, 2012, 04:40:58 pm
Quote
Now we know why your other forum kicked you out.
It has to do with the forum directors wife, the FBI, and something I did with your mom. Feel free to interpret that as you will.
Post by: narhiril on November 04, 2012, 05:30:17 pm
I've heard that increasing the contact area of bolts to 10-20 works to significantly lower the frequency of these events. I can very easily include this as an optional component.
Post by: Pan on November 05, 2012, 09:14:26 am
Anyone else seen a crystal dragon, yet? Or a cannon beetle? Interesting creatures I have never seen before :(
Post by: katana on November 05, 2012, 11:10:57 am
Marksdwarf killed a cavedragon with wood bolts. One shotted the wing and it passed out. Bolts are overpowered.No, but I can tell you that the war carbuncles are freakin' dangerous.
Anyone else seen a crystal dragon, yet? Or a cannon beetle? Interesting creatures I have never seen before :(
Post by: SanDiego on November 05, 2012, 11:32:38 am
Post by: katana on November 05, 2012, 12:06:59 pm
EDIT:
What exactly does alchemical remedy do? And that special cheese? If I'm reading this right,
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
The blessed warrior's descriptions seems a little misleading since none of them actually have stat modifiers/increased learning rates (and the natural skills only apply to newborn children).
Post by: astianax on November 05, 2012, 10:30:29 pm
Post by: narhiril on November 06, 2012, 03:44:17 pm
Following this coming release, I'll be using 0.19b to fix any issues, and probably a few subsequent releases to include the constructs and other components that were planned for this update, but pushed back so that I could get this out by this weekend.
Not to look too far forward, but this will mean that tier 3 of the ritual tree is finally done. Which is a good thing, because I've been itching to start on tier 4 for months now.
Post by: Imp on November 06, 2012, 03:47:13 pm
Post by: narhiril on November 06, 2012, 03:53:13 pm
I am so happy this mod continues to 'live'. Thank you so very much for continuing to work on it!
I really appreciate that. :D
This mod is meant to capture the spirit of Dwarf Fortress - never finished, but stubbornly refuses to die, time and time again.
I want to assure everyone who has continued to support this little project that I have not forgotten you, and that I promised in the earliest days of this mod that it would continue until otherwise stated. I have not "otherwise stated" - nor do I plan to.
Post by: Deon on November 07, 2012, 08:54:02 am
Post by: katana on November 07, 2012, 10:49:23 am
It's not a problem with wood bolts per se. Megabeasts and large creatures should get NOPAIN or special tissues with reduced pain receptors. Just an advice.
The problem with that is that they're still (near) immobile if you shoot all their legs. So unless your beasts are spiders or centipedes, one or two marksdwarves will stop them in their tracks.
Post by: Deon on November 07, 2012, 10:53:07 am
Post by: narhiril on November 07, 2012, 12:34:45 pm
Custom materials help that :).
Sometimes, except when they don't. I've covered a number of creatures in custom materials, from iron to steel and beyond, and many of them still see wooden bolt killshots to the head.
Post by: Meph on November 07, 2012, 01:44:53 pm
Post by: katana on November 07, 2012, 02:21:17 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: narhiril on November 08, 2012, 08:04:40 pm
BUG-Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Having trouble reproducing this one. They're working fine in my arena.
Post by: katana on November 08, 2012, 08:24:10 pm
... For a really long time. Like, a month.
Post by: Stirk on November 08, 2012, 08:35:31 pm
Quote
After re-examining it, it appeared to have been caught in a web.
... For a really long time. Like, a month.
Your really quick to yell "GLITCH!" at things you have not tested, don't know anything about, and randomly find, aren't you?
Post by: Putnam on November 08, 2012, 08:38:43 pm
Post by: Stirk on November 08, 2012, 08:47:20 pm
Quote
Well, it is an alpha version of the game. Weird shit happens. I had a creature with [SPEED:100000]. It moved at extremely fast speeds, but only about once every 5000 frames or so. It just sat in the meantime.
Nothing happens in dwarf fortress without reason- The speed you put was extremely slow....
Here is the wiki, since you have helped me with it much before:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Putnam on November 08, 2012, 08:49:33 pm
Post by: Stirk on November 08, 2012, 08:54:15 pm
Quote
I know it was extremely slow. The creature was a tree, and I couldn't have it be IMMOBILE because it has to breed. The fast moving part was the weird part--it would zip 30 tiles over the course of 100 frames, which is essentially a speed of 30.
I had assumed you knew it-but I could think of a dozen things that need fast speed, but none that would need to be that slow. Why in the world did you need a breeding tree?
Post by: Putnam on November 08, 2012, 08:54:57 pm
Post by: Stirk on November 08, 2012, 08:59:25 pm
Post by: katana on November 09, 2012, 03:05:23 pm
Erm, I ended up with a lizard (at magma level...?) and a forbidden "head inspiration". Is this a failure or erm... I have no idea what it could be actually.
If it helps, halfway through the process, there was a creature spawned, but it had a burned brain and body, boiled body. So now there's just a random forbidden head inspiration (which seems to be the corpse of a creature, based on the fact that it's forbidden and I forbid corpses).
Post by: Pan on November 09, 2012, 04:09:26 pm
Also, I saw in one of the other mods where spider constructs can clean dwarves or something. That seems like a neat upgrade for one of the higher level spiders.
Never tried spiders yet, so I wouldnt know about katana's problem.
Post by: narhiril on November 09, 2012, 05:51:40 pm
Hey Narhiril. I just thought, maybe you could add a small upgrade in one of the earlier levels of tech tree? A studded shield, so shield bashes are slightly more powerful. Maybe unlockable through the evaluate alchemical results reaction.
Also, I saw in one of the other mods where spider constructs can clean dwarves or something. That seems like a neat upgrade for one of the higher level spiders.
Never tried spiders yet, so I wouldnt know about katana's problem.
Spiders are a really messy workaround to not being able to produce a creature in a reaction, so weird stuff comes up with them from time to time. I apologize if it doesn't always work right - I find that it tends to work more often than not, though, and a lot of people wanted to see it implemented even though it's kind of a rube goldberg contraption in terms of scripting.
To give you an idea, the reaction works by transforming a dwarf into a custom creature called a "constructor," which has a limb connected to its body by connecting parts that are set to boil away at room temperature, throwing off the now-disconnected body part, which the constructor then re-animates and simultaneously transforms into a dwarven spider. The result is one very confused dwarf who drops all of his clothes and/or equipment during the reaction, and (usually) a friendly spider loitering around the deployment hub.
The next update introduces the mantis, which is a different type of construct - instead of being created, it is a modification of an existing, breedable creature called a "slimer." So to make a mantis, you'll just need to pen/pasture a slimer next to the workshop when a dwarf performs the reaction, with no intermediate transformation necessary. It still relies on boiling stones, though, so it might not work 100% of the time. The result, however, is a construct that can be penned/pastured.
Post by: katana on November 09, 2012, 06:23:37 pm
(late game spoilers, both vanilla and mod wise)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Putnam on November 09, 2012, 08:26:55 pm
How long does the transformation to a constructor last?
do you use RESURRECT or ANIMATE for the spiders?
Post by: Pan on November 10, 2012, 05:05:55 am
Post by: katana on November 10, 2012, 06:49:50 am
Alchemy still takes 10 stones, is this intended?No, that's a leftover from old versions where stones would drop on every dug tile. Just change it to 2-3 and it'll make more sense.
Post by: Pan on November 10, 2012, 06:52:42 am
Post by: katana on November 10, 2012, 07:06:14 am
The underworld demons are also buggy, don't bother with that for now.
Post by: Pan on November 10, 2012, 08:12:16 am
Post by: fire1666 on November 10, 2012, 12:24:49 pm
Post by: katana on November 10, 2012, 12:31:58 pm
I dont know weather it would feckup the LORE behind LFR but could i create lore for the voidwalkers once ive started work on there mod?
... Wha?
Post by: fire1666 on November 10, 2012, 12:34:18 pm
When LFR gets updated im going to start work on making the voidwalkers playable in fortress mode :DI dont know weather it would feckup the LORE behind LFR but could i create lore for the voidwalkers once ive started work on there mod?
... Wha?
Post by: Stirk on November 10, 2012, 11:11:16 pm
Quote
5-6 tries with normal non-blessed dwarves later, still nothing working.
The underworld demons are also buggy, don't bother with that for now.
Is this like the other breathable syndromes that you claimed "Where bugged so they didn't effect armored dwarves"?
Post by: Pan on November 10, 2012, 11:44:11 pm
Is this like the other breathable syndromes that you claimed "Where bugged so they didn't effect armored dwarves"?
Oh knock it off.
So Narhiril, how's it going?
Post by: narhiril on November 11, 2012, 12:21:24 am
Is this like the other breathable syndromes that you claimed "Where bugged so they didn't effect armored dwarves"?
Oh knock it off.
So Narhiril, how's it going?
It's almost done. Barring any unforeseen difficulties, I should have something up for download tomorrow.
Post by: Pan on November 11, 2012, 01:32:17 am
Post by: fire1666 on November 11, 2012, 03:56:32 am
It's almost done. Barring any unforeseen difficulties, I should have something up for download tomorrow.
[/quote]
:D ill start work tomorrow
Post by: fire1666 on November 11, 2012, 05:43:44 am
in combat tests ive noticed that voidwalkers regularaly suffer from exploding teeth syndrom *all there teeth fly out in an arc* i dont know if this is a bug but its somthing you might wana look into
Post by: katana on November 11, 2012, 06:19:54 am
Post by: fire1666 on November 11, 2012, 07:45:44 am
Fire, in newer versions, strikes to the mouth area can send all teeth flying. Happens to anything with teeth.D: oh wellz...
i had an idea for a voidwalker main headquarters, a spire of zeth *the voidwalker god / Diety / what ever you want to call it*
basicly it converts stone via reaction *workshop* into voidstone which will become there primary building material.
also how to creat custom stones without walls for them?
Post by: Pan on November 11, 2012, 11:58:45 am
Post by: Stirk on November 11, 2012, 12:11:51 pm
Quote
D: oh wellz...
You could just remove the teeth....
Post by: fire1666 on November 11, 2012, 12:13:31 pm
well then how they eat?QuoteD: oh wellz...
You could just remove the teeth....
is it possible to make teeth stronger or sharper as well?
Post by: Pan on November 11, 2012, 12:20:21 pm
Post by: Stirk on November 11, 2012, 12:20:37 pm
Quote
well then how they eat?
Swallow their food whole? Gum it? Use the stuff that comes out when they explode as digestive enzymes? Game play and story segregation?
Quote
is it possible to make teeth stronger or sharper as well?
Yep. Just change their material to something you want, which can be anything from soap to adamantine. For example:
[TISSUE:STEEL] [TISSUE_NAME:steel:steel] [TISSUE_MATERIAL:INORGANIC:STEEL] [MUSCULAR] [FUNCTIONAL] [STRUCTURAL]
[RELATIVE_THICKNESS:2]
[CONNECTS]
[TISSUE_SHAPE:LAYER]
[TISSUE_LAYER:BY_CATEGORY:TEETH:STEEL]
Should turn whatever you put that in's teeth into steel.
Post by: fire1666 on November 11, 2012, 12:22:25 pm
well that could be intresting :DQuotewell then how they eat?
Swallow their food whole? Gum it? Use the stuff that comes out when they explode as digestive enzymes? Game play and story segregation?
Quoteis it possible to make teeth stronger or sharper as well?
Yep. Just change their material to something you want, which can be anything from soap to adamantine. For example:
[TISSUE:STEEL] [TISSUE_NAME:steel:steel] [TISSUE_MATERIAL:INORGANIC:STEEL] [MUSCULAR] [FUNCTIONAL] [STRUCTURAL]
[RELATIVE_THICKNESS:2]
[CONNECTS]
[TISSUE_SHAPE:LAYER]
[TISSUE_LAYER:BY_CATEGORY:TEETH:STEEL]
Should turn whatever you put that in's teeth into steel.
EDIT come to think of it i reckon that could be quite intresting...
QUESTION!!!!!
is it possible for a creature to eat without a mouth / jaw?
Post by: katana on November 11, 2012, 12:28:13 pm
Narhiril, watchers are surprisingly tough. Make them more fragile. One flew out and got dogpiled by a bunch of shedim - still alive with a bruised body. Probably will die soon, but should have died by being punched once, not surviving quite some time after being dogpiled by a group of knife limbed eldritch horrors.Watchers are effectively sponges that don't airdrown (and not immune to infections?).
Post by: Stirk on November 11, 2012, 12:36:31 pm
Quote
Watchers are effectively sponges that don't airdrown (and not immune to infections?).
How hard is it to check?
[GETS_WOUND_INFECTIONS]
Is in it's token. So it gets infections.
It doesn't have anything that would really be a weakspot, no internal organs. But it should bleed, so if you cut it is should die. Arena test confirms this. Blunt does nothing, if you want to kill one, cut it.
Post by: Stirk on November 11, 2012, 12:47:09 pm
Quote
is it possible for a creature to eat without a mouth / jaw?
Yes, it is, if they have the tokens to do it. As far as I know, there is nothing suggesting that you need something to eat with.
Post by: fire1666 on November 11, 2012, 12:48:13 pm
thanks for quick responce, i think ill go with the idea of using the stuff that comes out when they explode XD thats achualy a very cool idea!Quoteis it possible for a creature to eat without a mouth / jaw?
Yes, it is, if they have the tokens to do it. As far as I know, there is nothing suggesting that you need something to eat with.
Post by: Pan on November 11, 2012, 01:22:04 pm
Post by: fire1666 on November 11, 2012, 01:35:16 pm
Shedim are pushovers when fighting them with skilled armored warriors. Guys were armored in iron and won out with few casualties - imagine steel or candy!i usualy have 2 squads of ironclad warrors with axe's by then XD they fall like domonoes
Post by: katana on November 11, 2012, 02:45:30 pm
Shedim are pushovers when fighting them with skilled armored warriors. Guys were armored in iron and won out with few casualties - imagine steel or candy!Agreed. I actually have to hold my soldiers back so I can concentrate the corpses nearer to the atom smasher. The wallarm's arm doesn't actually seem to have very much effect in combat either.
Post by: Imp on November 11, 2012, 03:02:16 pm
Shedim are pushovers when fighting them with skilled armored warriors. Guys were armored in iron and won out with few casualties - imagine steel or candy!
From what I understood of the lore about the shedim, there's various castes. They're all super aggressive, but they're not all super dangerous. The danger comes from their numbers and the fact that sooner or later you're getting some of their strong castes... which top out scary strong. Additionally, some of the upper units can change the fight in interesting ways.
Quotes from shedim lore file:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: katana on November 11, 2012, 03:55:05 pm
In practice, most of the dangerous castes aren't very dangerous.Shedim are pushovers when fighting them with skilled armored warriors. Guys were armored in iron and won out with few casualties - imagine steel or candy!
From what I understood of the lore about the shedim, there's various castes. They're all super aggressive, but they're not all super dangerous. The danger comes from their numbers and the fact that sooner or later you're getting some of their strong castes... which top out scary strong. Additionally, some of the upper units can change the fight in interesting ways.
Quotes from shedim lore file:Spoiler (click to show/hide)
The ranged units are just like any other archer, except they don't run out of ammo.
The wallarm's (ah kora iirc) arm doesn't do anything special, as mentioned before.
The megabeast-sized ones go down as easily as minotaurs or giants (admittedly they're megabeasts, but has anyone ever had a serious military that feared giants?).
By the way- how about giving scouts some sort of dizzying/pain/nausea etc. syndrome explosion on death or something? Your soldiers kill them and are slightly disoriented, making the incoming hordes noticeably more dangerous.
Post by: Putnam on November 11, 2012, 04:01:51 pm
Post by: Pan on November 11, 2012, 06:10:28 pm
So Narhiril, will you be including an archery fix as optional component in today's release as well? Also, are spiders really working? Katana's got me worried there :(
Post by: katana on November 11, 2012, 07:02:37 pm
In the end, it might work on certain fortresses and not others because of things like temperature variation. The cost to get a single workshop set up and make a spider isn't that high, you could give it a shot and leave it if it fails.
Post by: Stirk on November 11, 2012, 10:10:34 pm
Quote
I was working with spiders very near magma (and the corpses of flame/snow creatures), so temperature might've had some effect. Oh, and a frost dragon breathed on some of my dwarves I think.
In the end, it might work on certain fortresses and not others because of things like temperature variation. The cost to get a single workshop set up and make a spider isn't that high, you could give it a shot and leave it if it fails.
Why would temperature be an issue? Those temperatures are above room temperature, so there is no reason that it should have not erupted. You are jumping to conclusions again.
Post by: fire1666 on November 12, 2012, 02:11:25 am
I think what he meens is that is it possible for syndrom based things be affected, because i would like to add ALL my volcano style forts have had no problem against the Shedim at all...QuoteI was working with spiders very near magma (and the corpses of flame/snow creatures), so temperature might've had some effect. Oh, and a frost dragon breathed on some of my dwarves I think.
In the end, it might work on certain fortresses and not others because of things like temperature variation. The cost to get a single workshop set up and make a spider isn't that high, you could give it a shot and leave it if it fails.
Why would temperature be an issue? Those temperatures are above room temperature, so there is no reason that it should have not erupted. You are jumping to conclusions again.
also spider spam = very easy siege defence have about 10 or more by the entrance with 2 squads of 10 crossbow dorfs behind = firing line
EDIT
i spent some time testing around an ive found out any more then 12 spiders can hold off atleast half a voidwalker siege without support, either wounding them all or kiling half outright..........
they dont need to be nerfed XD
Post by: Pan on November 12, 2012, 09:21:32 am
Post by: katana on November 12, 2012, 11:28:50 am
Efficient javelin casting does not seem to exist in the tech tree's 'Evaluate research findings' reaction.Are you sure?
It was a lot rarer than other research findings for me, but I got it after about 30-40 tries.
Post by: fire1666 on November 12, 2012, 11:30:51 am
i got it first time once XDEfficient javelin casting does not seem to exist in the tech tree's 'Evaluate research findings' reaction.Are you sure?
It was a lot rarer than other research findings for me, but I got it after about 30-40 tries.
Post by: Pan on November 12, 2012, 05:44:50 pm
No matter, I've found a bunch of priceless vanguard ruins (right where I'm building the temple sector, too! A sign from the Gods?) and I might find hadrine synthesis in appraising them.
Post by: greycat on November 12, 2012, 06:43:17 pm
... Just how many alchemists do you guys employ? Alchemy takes so long, and the stones are so heavy, and the research findings are such rare percentages.
Make a stone stockpile, large enough to hold enough stones for the alchemy research, directly surrounding the alchemy workshop, or directly south of it (since the entrance is in the south wall). Assign wheelbarrows. Link the stockpile to the workshop, so the alchemist will only use those stones.
Then remove the stockpile link so you can evaluate the findings. Then put it back before you try another experiment. Repeat ad infinitum. (Or, set up a second alchemy workshop to evaluate the findings of the first one.)
If the forthcoming version of LFR doesn't reduce the alchemy research cost from 10 stones to 2-3 stones, then I'd suggest you fix it yourself. 10 stones was the cost in 0.34.07 when you got stones from every tile mined (with Legendary miners). Now that you only get 25% stones, the cost needs to be divided by 4 to keep things balanced.
Post by: Imp on November 12, 2012, 07:43:02 pm
... Just how many alchemists do you guys employ? Alchemy takes so long, and the stones are so heavy, and the research findings are such rare percentages.
Just one, usually, but I also use a nearby stone stockpile, but I 'brute force' getting the stones into the alchemy lab. Alchemist gets a break from his labors and a huge number of stones are designated to be dumped in the center of the lab from the nearby stockpile(s), then unforbidden for him to work with. I temporarily shut down the stone stockpiles until the work's done to ensure that people don't run in to grab those stones and undo that hauling (or expose them to unnecessary flame or something) but the work goes FAST cause the alchemist simply must nod to the current stones to be worked with and start labor, over and over until there's no longer enough stone.
Post by: narhiril on November 12, 2012, 10:26:44 pm
Pre-installed (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=4242)
Raw only (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=4230)
I'm expecting some minor issues to come up in the first few days, so I'll be revising it as those are fixed. Also, depending on how quickly or slowly those trickle in, I'll be working to get the constructs that were cut from this release finished for subsequent releases.
Post by: fire1666 on November 13, 2012, 02:15:00 am
Alright, it's up and ready.YAY
Pre-installed (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=4242)
Raw only (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=4230)
I'm expecting some minor issues to come up in the first few days, so I'll be revising it as those are fixed. Also, depending on how quickly or slowly those trickle in, I'll be working to get the constructs that were cut from this release finished for subsequent releases.
ill be starting work on the mod shortly, thanks for updating :D
Post by: SalmonGod on November 13, 2012, 02:17:32 am
Post by: narhiril on November 13, 2012, 04:02:24 am
Post by: Pan on November 13, 2012, 08:33:34 am
Post by: katana on November 13, 2012, 10:45:45 am
Post by: SanDiego on November 13, 2012, 11:00:00 am
Use it. Love it. Bear it's children.
Post by: fire1666 on November 13, 2012, 01:37:27 pm
Progress is gona be slow though since i would rater not work on it more then an hour a day or ill get boured with it and stop D:
Post by: fire1666 on November 13, 2012, 02:01:44 pm
Can I ask if it would be lore frendly to makevoidwalkers use normal plants for food...
like using the starting material then using them to research extreamly powerful crops later on for voidies only :D
Post by: katana on November 13, 2012, 02:36:30 pm
Wat.
Anyway, why not just make something and then see if nahl's fine with it afterwards, then tweak it? The lore leaves a lot of room for interpretation.
Post by: fire1666 on November 13, 2012, 03:03:47 pm
"Extremely powerful crops"Goodidea + and all the nobles are renamed in code below
Wat.
Anyway, why not just make something and then see if nahl's fine with it afterwards, then tweak it? The lore leaves a lot of room for interpretation.
Code: [Select]
[LAND_HOLDER_TRIGGER:1:20:10000:100000]
[LAND_HOLDER_TRIGGER:2:20:20000:200000]
[LAND_HOLDER_TRIGGER:3:20:30000:300000]
[POSITION:MONARCH]
[NAME_MALE:Etherial:Etherials]
[NAME_FEMALE:Etherial:Etherials]
[NUMBER:1]
[SPOUSE_MALE:Etherials Bloodline:Etherials Bloodlines]
[SPOUSE_FEMALE:Etherials Bloodline:Etherials Bloodlines]
[SUCCESSION:BY_POSITION:SUCCESSOR]
[RESPONSIBILITY:LAW_MAKING]
[RESPONSIBILITY:RECEIVE_DIPLOMATS]
[RESPONSIBILITY:MILITARY_GOALS]
[PRECEDENCE:1]
[SPECIAL_BURIAL]
[RULES_FROM_LOCATION]
[MENIAL_WORK_EXEMPTION]
[MENIAL_WORK_EXEMPTION_SPOUSE]
[SLEEP_PRETENSION]
[PUNISHMENT_EXEMPTION]
[FLASHES]
[BRAG_ON_KILL]
[CHAT_WORTHY]
[DO_NOT_CULL]
[KILL_QUEST]
[EXPORTED_IN_LEGENDS]
[DETERMINES_COIN_DESIGN]
[COLOR:5:0:1]
[ACCOUNT_EXEMPT]
[DUTY_BOUND]
[DEMAND_MAX:10]
[MANDATE_MAX:5]
[REQUIRED_BOXES:10]
[REQUIRED_CABINETS:5]
[REQUIRED_RACKS:5]
[REQUIRED_STANDS:5]
[REQUIRED_OFFICE:10000]
[REQUIRED_BEDROOM:10000]
[REQUIRED_DINING:10000]
[REQUIRED_TOMB:10000]
[POSITION:GENERAL]
[NAME:Deathsworn Primus pilus:Deathsword Primus pilus]
[NUMBER:1]
[SQUAD:10:Deathsworn legionary:Deathsword legionarys]
[APPOINTED_BY:MONARCH]
[RESPONSIBILITY:MILITARY_STRATEGY]
[COMMANDER:LIEUTENANT:ALL]
[PRECEDENCE:50]
[SPECIAL_BURIAL]
[MENIAL_WORK_EXEMPTION]
[SLEEP_PRETENSION]
[PUNISHMENT_EXEMPTION]
[FLASHES]
[BRAG_ON_KILL]
[CHAT_WORTHY]
[DO_NOT_CULL]
[KILL_QUEST]
[ACCOUNT_EXEMPT]
[DUTY_BOUND]
[DEMAND_MAX:2]
[REQUIRED_BOXES:2]
[REQUIRED_CABINETS:1]
[REQUIRED_RACKS:3]
[REQUIRED_STANDS:3]
[REQUIRED_OFFICE:500]
[REQUIRED_BEDROOM:250]
[REQUIRED_DINING:250]
[REQUIRED_TOMB:1]
[POSITION:LIEUTENANT]
[NAME:Deathsworn Centurion:Deathsword Centurions]
[NUMBER:AS_NEEDED]
[SQUAD:10:Deathsworn legionary:Deathsword legionarys]
[APPOINTED_BY:GENERAL]
[COMMANDER:CAPTAIN:ALL]
[PRECEDENCE:100]
[MENIAL_WORK_EXEMPTION]
[FLASHES]
[BRAG_ON_KILL]
[CHAT_WORTHY]
[DO_NOT_CULL]
[KILL_QUEST]
[ACCOUNT_EXEMPT]
[DUTY_BOUND]
[DEMAND_MAX:1]
[REQUIRED_BOXES:1]
[REQUIRED_CABINETS:1]
[REQUIRED_RACKS:2]
[REQUIRED_STANDS:2]
[REQUIRED_OFFICE:100]
[REQUIRED_BEDROOM:100]
[REQUIRED_DINING:100]
[MILITARY_SCREEN_ONLY]
[POSITION:CAPTAIN]
[NAME:Deathsworn Centurion:Deathsworn Centurions]
[NUMBER:AS_NEEDED]
[SQUAD:10:Deathsworn Lesser Legionary:Deathsworn Lesser Legionarys]
[APPOINTED_BY:GENERAL]
[PRECEDENCE:190]
[DO_NOT_CULL]
[DUTY_BOUND]
[REQUIRED_BOXES:1]
[REQUIRED_CABINETS:1]
[REQUIRED_RACKS:1]
[REQUIRED_STANDS:1]
[REQUIRED_OFFICE:1]
[REQUIRED_BEDROOM:1]
[REQUIRED_DINING:1]
[MILITARY_SCREEN_ONLY]
[POSITION:MILITIA_COMMANDER]
[NAME:Deathsworn Lesser Centurion:Deathsworn Lesser Centurions]
[SITE]
[NUMBER:1]
[SQUAD:10:Legionary:Legionarys]
[APPOINTED_BY:EXPEDITION_LEADER]
[APPOINTED_BY:MAYOR]
[RESPONSIBILITY:MILITARY_STRATEGY]
[COMMANDER:MILITIA_CAPTAIN:ALL]
[PRECEDENCE:120]
[DO_NOT_CULL]
[DUTY_BOUND]
[POSITION:MILITIA_CAPTAIN]
[NAME:Deathsworn Lesser Optio:Deathsworn Lesser Optio's]
[SITE]
[NUMBER:AS_NEEDED]
[SQUAD:10:Deathsworn Lesser Legionary:Deathsworn Lesser Legionarys]
[APPOINTED_BY:MILITIA_COMMANDER]
[PRECEDENCE:200]
[DO_NOT_CULL]
[DUTY_BOUND]
[MILITARY_SCREEN_ONLY]
[POSITION:SHERIFF]
[NAME:Deathsworn Judge:Deathsworn Judge]
[SITE]
[NUMBER:1]
[RESPONSIBILITY:LAW_ENFORCEMENT]
[APPOINTED_BY:EXPEDITION_LEADER]
[APPOINTED_BY:MAYOR]
[REPLACED_BY:CAPTAIN_OF_THE_GUARD]
[PRECEDENCE:130]
[DO_NOT_CULL]
[COLOR:1:0:1]
[ACCOUNT_EXEMPT]
[DUTY_BOUND]
[REQUIRED_BOXES:1]
[REQUIRED_CABINETS:1]
[REQUIRED_RACKS:1]
[REQUIRED_STANDS:1]
[REQUIRED_OFFICE:100]
[REQUIRED_BEDROOM:100]
[REQUIRED_DINING:100]
[POSITION:CAPTAIN_OF_THE_GUARD]
[NAME:Deathsworn Citidel Guard Commissar:Deathsworn Citidel Guard Commissar's]
[SITE]
[NUMBER:1]
[RESPONSIBILITY:LAW_ENFORCEMENT]
[SQUAD:20:Citidel Guardsmen:Citidel Guardsmen]
[APPOINTED_BY:EXPEDITION_LEADER]
[APPOINTED_BY:MAYOR]
[REQUIRES_POPULATION:50]
[PRECEDENCE:105]
[DO_NOT_CULL]
[COLOR:1:0:1]
[ACCOUNT_EXEMPT]
[DUTY_BOUND]
[REQUIRED_BOXES:1]
[REQUIRED_CABINETS:1]
[REQUIRED_RACKS:1]
[REQUIRED_STANDS:1]
[REQUIRED_OFFICE:250]
[REQUIRED_BEDROOM:250]
[REQUIRED_DINING:250]
[POSITION:EXPEDITION_LEADER]
[NAME:Citidel Founder:Citidel Founders]
[SITE]
[NUMBER:1]
[REPLACED_BY:MAYOR]
[RULES_FROM_LOCATION]
[RESPONSIBILITY:MEET_WORKERS]
[RESPONSIBILITY:RECEIVE_DIPLOMATS]
[RESPONSIBILITY:MILITARY_GOALS]
[PRECEDENCE:110]
[DO_NOT_CULL]
[ACCOUNT_EXEMPT]
[DUTY_BOUND]
[POSITION:MAYOR]
[NAME:Citidel Minder:Citidel Minders]
[SITE]
[NUMBER:1]
[RESPONSIBILITY:MEET_WORKERS]
[RESPONSIBILITY:RECEIVE_DIPLOMATS]
[RESPONSIBILITY:MILITARY_GOALS]
[REQUIRES_POPULATION:50]
[RULES_FROM_LOCATION]
[ELECTED]
[PRECEDENCE:60]
[FLASHES]
[BRAG_ON_KILL]
[CHAT_WORTHY]
[DO_NOT_CULL]
[KILL_QUEST]
[COLOR:5:0:0]
[ACCOUNT_EXEMPT]
[DUTY_BOUND]
[DEMAND_MAX:2]
[MANDATE_MAX:1]
[REQUIRED_BOXES:2]
[REQUIRED_CABINETS:1]
[REQUIRED_RACKS:1]
[REQUIRED_STANDS:1]
[REQUIRED_OFFICE:500]
[REQUIRED_BEDROOM:500]
[REQUIRED_DINING:500]
[POSITION:MANAGER]
[NAME:Manafacturing Optio:Manafacturing Optio's]
[SITE]
[NUMBER:1]
[RESPONSIBILITY:MANAGE_PRODUCTION]
[APPOINTED_BY:EXPEDITION_LEADER]
[APPOINTED_BY:MAYOR]
[PRECEDENCE:160]
[DO_NOT_CULL]
[COLOR:5:0:0]
[DUTY_BOUND]
[REQUIRED_OFFICE:1]
[POSITION:CHIEF_MEDICAL_DWARF]
[NAME:Head Mecial Optio:Head Medical Optio's]
[SITE]
[NUMBER:1]
[RESPONSIBILITY:HEALTH_MANAGEMENT]
[APPOINTED_BY:EXPEDITION_LEADER]
[APPOINTED_BY:MAYOR]
[PRECEDENCE:165]
[DO_NOT_CULL]
[COLOR:5:0:0]
[DUTY_BOUND]
[POSITION:BROKER]
[NAME:Optio of Merchandise:Optio's of Merchandise]
[SITE]
[NUMBER:1]
[RESPONSIBILITY:TRADE]
[APPOINTED_BY:EXPEDITION_LEADER]
[APPOINTED_BY:MAYOR]
[PRECEDENCE:170]
[DO_NOT_CULL]
[COLOR:5:0:0]
[DUTY_BOUND]
[POSITION:BOOKKEEPER]
[NAME:Citidel Wraithseer:Citidel Wraithseer's]
[SITE]
[NUMBER:1]
[RESPONSIBILITY:ACCOUNTING]
[APPOINTED_BY:EXPEDITION_LEADER]
[APPOINTED_BY:MAYOR]
[PRECEDENCE:180]
[DO_NOT_CULL]
[COLOR:5:0:0]
[DUTY_BOUND]
[REQUIRED_OFFICE:1]
[POSITION:OUTPOST_LIAISON]
[NAME:Citidel Farseer:Citidel Farseer's]
[NUMBER:1]
[RESPONSIBILITY:ESTABLISH_COLONY_TRADE_AGREEMENTS]
[APPOINTED_BY:MONARCH]
[PRECEDENCE:80]
[MENIAL_WORK_EXEMPTION]
[SLEEP_PRETENSION]
[PUNISHMENT_EXEMPTION]
[ACCOUNT_EXEMPT]
[DO_NOT_CULL]
[COLOR:7:0:1]
[DUTY_BOUND]
[DEMAND_MAX:3]
[REQUIRED_BOXES:3]
[REQUIRED_CABINETS:2]
[REQUIRED_RACKS:2]
[REQUIRED_STANDS:2]
[REQUIRED_OFFICE:1500]
[REQUIRED_BEDROOM:1500]
[REQUIRED_DINING:1500]
[POSITION:DIPLOMAT]
[NAME:Dealer of Time:Dealers of Time]
[NUMBER:1]
[RESPONSIBILITY:MAKE_INTRODUCTIONS]
[RESPONSIBILITY:MAKE_PEACE_AGREEMENTS]
[RESPONSIBILITY:MAKE_TOPIC_AGREEMENTS]
[APPOINTED_BY:MONARCH]
[PRECEDENCE:70]
[DO_NOT_CULL]
[COLOR:7:0:1]
[MENIAL_WORK_EXEMPTION]
[SLEEP_PRETENSION]
[PUNISHMENT_EXEMPTION]
[ACCOUNT_EXEMPT]
[DUTY_BOUND]
[DEMAND_MAX:3]
[REQUIRED_BOXES:3]
[REQUIRED_CABINETS:2]
[REQUIRED_RACKS:2]
[REQUIRED_STANDS:2]
[REQUIRED_OFFICE:1500]
[REQUIRED_BEDROOM:1500]
[REQUIRED_DINING:1500]
[POSITION:DUKE]
[NAME_MALE:Wraithlord:Wraithlords]
[NAME_FEMALE:Wraithlord:Wraithlords]
[SPOUSE_MALE:Wraith Seeker:Wraith Seekers]
[SPOUSE_FEMALE:Wraith Seeker:Wraith Seekers]
[SITE]
[LAND_HOLDER:3]
[LAND_NAME:a duchy]
[RESPONSIBILITY:LAW_MAKING]
[RESPONSIBILITY:RECEIVE_DIPLOMATS]
[SUCCESSION:BY_HEIR]
[APPOINTED_BY:MONARCH]
[PRECEDENCE:20]
[SPECIAL_BURIAL]
[MENIAL_WORK_EXEMPTION]
[MENIAL_WORK_EXEMPTION_SPOUSE]
[SLEEP_PRETENSION]
[PUNISHMENT_EXEMPTION]
[FLASHES]
[BRAG_ON_KILL]
[CHAT_WORTHY]
[DO_NOT_CULL]
[KILL_QUEST]
[COLOR:5:0:0]
[ACCOUNT_EXEMPT]
[DUTY_BOUND]
[DEMAND_MAX:5]
[MANDATE_MAX:3]
[REQUIRED_BOXES:5]
[REQUIRED_CABINETS:3]
[REQUIRED_RACKS:3]
[REQUIRED_STANDS:3]
[REQUIRED_OFFICE:2500]
[REQUIRED_BEDROOM:2500]
[REQUIRED_DINING:2500]
[REQUIRED_TOMB:2500]
[POSITION:COUNT]
[NAME_MALE:Wrath:Wrath]
[NAME_FEMALE:Wrath:Wraths]
[SPOUSE_MALE:Wrath seeker:Wrath Seekers]
[SPOUSE_FEMALE:Wrath Seeker:Wrath Seekers]
[SITE]
[LAND_HOLDER:2]
[LAND_NAME:a county]
[RESPONSIBILITY:LAW_MAKING]
[RESPONSIBILITY:RECEIVE_DIPLOMATS]
[SUCCESSION:BY_HEIR]
[APPOINTED_BY:MONARCH]
[REPLACED_BY:DUKE]
[PRECEDENCE:30]
[SPECIAL_BURIAL]
[MENIAL_WORK_EXEMPTION]
[MENIAL_WORK_EXEMPTION_SPOUSE]
[SLEEP_PRETENSION]
[PUNISHMENT_EXEMPTION]
[FLASHES]
[BRAG_ON_KILL]
[CHAT_WORTHY]
[DO_NOT_CULL]
[KILL_QUEST]
[COLOR:5:0:0]
[ACCOUNT_EXEMPT]
[DUTY_BOUND]
[DEMAND_MAX:3]
[MANDATE_MAX:2]
[REQUIRED_BOXES:3]
[REQUIRED_CABINETS:2]
[REQUIRED_RACKS:2]
[REQUIRED_STANDS:2]
[REQUIRED_OFFICE:1500]
[REQUIRED_BEDROOM:1500]
[REQUIRED_DINING:1500]
[REQUIRED_TOMB:1500]
[POSITION:BARON]
[NAME_MALE:Lord:Lords]
[NAME_FEMALE:Lord:Lords]
[SPOUSE_MALE:Lord consort:Lords consort]
[SPOUSE_FEMALE:Lord consort:Lords consort]
[SITE]
[LAND_HOLDER:1]
[LAND_NAME:a barony]
[RESPONSIBILITY:LAW_MAKING]
[RESPONSIBILITY:RECEIVE_DIPLOMATS]
[SUCCESSION:BY_HEIR]
[APPOINTED_BY:MONARCH]
[REPLACED_BY:COUNT]
[PRECEDENCE:40]
[SPECIAL_BURIAL]
[MENIAL_WORK_EXEMPTION]
[MENIAL_WORK_EXEMPTION_SPOUSE]
[SLEEP_PRETENSION]
[PUNISHMENT_EXEMPTION]
[FLASHES]
[BRAG_ON_KILL]
[CHAT_WORTHY]
[DO_NOT_CULL]
[KILL_QUEST]
[COLOR:5:0:0]
[ACCOUNT_EXEMPT]
[DUTY_BOUND]
[DEMAND_MAX:2]
[MANDATE_MAX:1]
[REQUIRED_BOXES:2]
[REQUIRED_CABINETS:1]
[REQUIRED_RACKS:1]
[REQUIRED_STANDS:1]
[REQUIRED_OFFICE:500]
[REQUIRED_BEDROOM:500]
[REQUIRED_DINING:500]
[REQUIRED_TOMB:500]
[POSITION:CHAMPION]
[NAME:Deathsworn Bloodpact Lord:Deathsworn Bloodpact Lords]
[SITE]
[NUMBER:1]
[RESPONSIBILITY:BUILD_MORALE]
[PRECEDENCE:65]
[SQUAD:3:Deathsworn Bloodpact:Deathsworn Bloodpacts]
[APPOINTED_BY:MAYOR]
[PUNISHMENT_EXEMPTION]
[DO_NOT_CULL]
[COLOR:7:0:1]
[ACCOUNT_EXEMPT]
[DUTY_BOUND]
[DEMAND_MAX:1]
[POSITION:HAMMERER]
[NAME:Deathsworn Executioner:Deathsworn Exercutioners]
[SITE]
[NUMBER:1]
[RESPONSIBILITY:EXECUTIONS]
[EXECUTION_SKILL:HAMMER]
[APPOINTED_BY:EXPEDITION_LEADER]
[APPOINTED_BY:MAYOR]
[PRECEDENCE:150]
[DO_NOT_CULL]
[COLOR:0:0:1]
[DUTY_BOUND]
[POSITION:FORCED_ADMINISTRATOR]
[NAME:administrator:administrators]
[CONQUERED_SITE]
[FLASHES]
[BRAG_ON_KILL]
[CHAT_WORTHY]
[DO_NOT_CULL]
[KILL_QUEST]
[EXPORTED_IN_LEGENDS]
[DETERMINES_COIN_DESIGN]
[MENIAL_WORK_EXEMPTION]
[SLEEP_PRETENSION]
[PUNISHMENT_EXEMPTION]
[ACCOUNT_EXEMPT]
[DUTY_BOUND]
[COLOR:5:0:0]
[MANDATE_MAX:2]
[DEMAND_MAX:3]
[PRECEDENCE:65]
[NUMBER:1]
[RESPONSIBILITY:LAW_MAKING]
[RESPONSIBILITY:RECEIVE_DIPLOMATS]
[RESPONSIBILITY:MAKE_TOPIC_AGREEMENTS]
[RESPONSIBILITY:MEET_WORKERS]
[POSITION:LOCAL_LEGEND]
[NAME:Local Legend:Local Legends]
[SITE]
[NUMBER:AS_NEEDED]
[ACCOUNT_EXEMPT]
[APPOINTED_BY:EXPEDITION_LEADER]
[APPOINTED_BY:MAYOR]
[PRECEDENCE:150]
[EXPORTED_IN_LEGENDS]
[DO_NOT_CULL]
[CHAT_WORTHY]
[COLOR:5:0:0]
[REQUIRED_BEDROOM:1]
[REQUIRED_CABINETS:1]
[DEMAND_MAX:1]
[POSITION:HIGH_PRIEST]
[NAME_MALE:Patriarch:Patriarchs]
[NAME_FEMALE:Matriarch:Matriarchs]
[SITE]
[RESPONSIBILITY:RELIGION]
[NUMBER:2]
[SQUAD:5:acolyte:acolytes]
[ACCOUNT_EXEMPT]
[APPOINTED_BY:MAYOR]
[PRECEDENCE:155]
[EXPORTED_IN_LEGENDS]
[DO_NOT_CULL]
[CHAT_WORTHY]
[COLOR:5:1:1]
[REQUIRED_BEDROOM:100]
[REQUIRED_CABINETS:1]
[REQUIRED_BOXES:1]
[REQUIRED_TOMB:100]
[POSITION:SUCCESSOR]
[NAME:Etherial Oathsworn:Etherial Oathsworn]
[SITE]
[NUMBER:1]
[ACCOUNT_EXEMPT]
[APPOINTED_BY:MONARCH]
[PRECEDENCE:40]
[EXPORTED_IN_LEGENDS]
[DO_NOT_CULL]
[CHAT_WORTHY]
[COLOR:5:0:0]
[REQUIRED_BEDROOM:250]
[REQUIRED_DINING:250]
[REQUIRED_CABINETS:1]
[DEMAND_MAX:2]
[MENIAL_WORK_EXEMPTION]Powerful crops = fast growth and load sof yield AND good value cooking meals and drinks
Post by: katana on November 13, 2012, 05:38:17 pm
... In hell.
Post by: fire1666 on November 14, 2012, 11:35:45 am
Post by: Demiurge on November 14, 2012, 11:56:22 am
Post by: fire1666 on November 14, 2012, 01:49:06 pm
Post by: Stirk on November 14, 2012, 05:55:14 pm
Quote
Can voidshard be used to make clothing *in the RAWs*
Probably if you turn it into thread, like adamantine or mythril.
Post by: fire1666 on November 15, 2012, 10:59:02 am
okie thanks :DQuoteCan voidshard be used to make clothing *in the RAWs*
Probably if you turn it into thread, like adamantine or mythril.
do you have to make a reaction to do that?
Post by: Putnam on November 15, 2012, 11:19:03 am
Post by: Pan on November 15, 2012, 11:35:43 am
Post by: fire1666 on November 15, 2012, 12:46:09 pm
Shedim block up a ton of other sieges... The only other race to attack had been a 1 squad goblin attack. I guess this is a good thing, since they provide good experience for soldiers and buy me time to get my guys into shape to deal with the voidwalkers. :)OH TRUST ME when voidwalkers are playable im gona literaly make all the evil races even more fucking powerful if possible...
From better weapons and armour to ranged weps, hell might even make the humans have better guns...
Prase the emperor that everything is going well atm but if somthing is up ill let you guys know imediatly!
Post by: fire1666 on November 15, 2012, 01:52:00 pm
say hello to the citidel heart :D
the main building for voidies :)
Code: [Select]
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[COLOR:3:7:5:7:0:7:5:0:7:5:0:7:5:0:5:7:0:7:5:0:7:5:0:5:0:1:7:5:0:7:5:0:5:7:0:7:5:0:7:5:0:7:5:0:5:7:0]
[COLOR:3:8:5:7:0:7:5:0:7:5:0:7:5:0:5:7:0:5:5:1:5:0:1:5:5:1:5:0:1:5:5:1:5:7:0:7:5:0:7:5:0:7:5:0:5:7:0]
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[COLOR:3:11:7:5:0:5:7:0:7:5:0:5:7:0:7:5:0:7:5:0:7:5:0:7:5:0:7:5:0:7:5:0:7:5:0:5:7:0:7:5:0:5:7:0:7:5:0]
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[BUILD_ITEM:20:NONE:NONE:NONE:NONE][BUILDMAT][WORTHLESS_STONE_ONLY][CAN_USE_ARTIFACT]
and of course the reactions so far!Code: [Select]
********************************************************
**********************CITIDEL HEART*********************
********************************************************
[REACTION:VOIDWALKER_SUMMON_SHARD]
[NAME:Summon Voidshard]
[BUILDING:VOIDWALKER_CITIDEL_HEART:NONE]
[REAGENT:A:1:BOULDER:NONE:NONE:NONE][WORTHLESS_STONE_ONLY]
[PRODUCT:50:1:BAR:NO_SUBTYPE:INORGANIC:VOIDSHARD:A:NONE][PRODUCT_DIMENSION:150]
[SKILL:MASONRY]
[REACTION:VOIDWALKER_SUMMON_JET]
[NAME:Summon Stone from the void]
[BUILDING:VOIDWALKER_CITIDEL_HEART:NONE]
[REAGENT:A:1:BOULDER:NONE:NONE:NONE][WORTHLESS_STONE_ONLY]
[PRODUCT:75:1:BOULDER:NO_SUBTYPE:INORGANIC:JET:A:NONE]
[SKILL:MASONRY]
[REACTION:VOIDWALKER_SUMMON_COAL]
[NAME:Replicate fossil fuels that we do not fully understand]
[BUILDING:VOIDWALKER_CITIDEL_HEART:NONE]
[REAGENT:A:1:BOULDER:NONE:NONE:NONE][WORTHLESS_STONE_ONLY]
[PRODUCT:75:1:BOULDER:NO_SUBTYPE:INORGANIC:COAL_BITUMINOUS:A:NONE]
[SKILL:MASONRY]
[REACTION:VOIDWALKER_REFINE_COAL]
[NAME:Convert fossil fuels into less understood burnable fuel]
[BUILDING:VOIDWALKER_CITIDEL_HEART:NONE]
[REAGENT:A:1:BOULDER:NO_SUBTYPE:INORGANIC:COAL_BITUMINOUS]
[PRODUCT:100:8:BAR:NO_SUBTYPE:COAL:COKE][PRODUCT_DIMENSION:150]
[SKILL:MASONRY]
Nothing wrong so far?
Post by: Stirk on November 15, 2012, 04:54:13 pm
Post by: Imp on November 16, 2012, 12:54:46 am
Anyone else seen a crystal dragon, yet? Or a cannon beetle? Interesting creatures I have never seen before :(
I just started a map on the newest LoFR release (after first a break from DF, and then playing a community game of vanilla DF, oh, how I missed the things I'd come to love through the mod!).
I have no idea if it's still rare to see the critters you were asking about, Pan, but as I checked the local critters about a month after starting play, ahh, there some cannon beetles are.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
The biome's a mix of mountains, rocky wasteland, and temperate savanna, temperate range seems to be mid to high, in case others are still seeking the (no longer rare?) beetle.
Edited to add, these beetles are awesome. They behave exactly how I wish my dwarven ranged troops would. So I have 2 war tigers and 2 war dogs, and all my dwarves but one are gathering plants along the edge of the map where they grow, the one is making picks. As plants get picked the random dwarf runs back to store it... sometimes followed by a war beast, each one was trained by a different dwarf.
The cannon beetles have wandered across much of the map; the war beasts IGNORE them. Even when they get shot by the stones. The beetles shy away from my dwarves and animals, like other harmless wildlife does. This is sad; I'd hoped the war beasts would attack them on sight... I really expected them to fight back once they started getting bruised.
As a dirty save scummer, especially as I check out new game features, I knew just what to do; I'd already saved the game, so I saved it again, in case these stones were capable of doing more than bruising. They were; so I reloaded and drafted everyone to move near a beetle.
Hah. They ignored it, it shied away from them, and continued to lob stones at them from a distance, which they ignored even as they got wounded.
Nothing for it then; kill it guys!
It's fast. And it doesn't slow down to fire the stones, and it apparently has eaten a LOT of them, because it just keeps shooting and shooting. My warbeasts are perfectly happy to follow their trainers; perhaps they could catch the beetle quickly but they're not trying to, they think it's a game I guess...
One of my starting 7 is -just- barely fast enough to close the distance. He dodges a couple stones, gets smacked by a lot of them, mostly bone bruises, though quite a few muscle bruises and a gut bruise too. He gets close enough at last to attack it; of course he's not at all trained, it dodges him and seconds after fires another stone at him, breaking a finger.
Fascinating creatures. I want my dwarves to be like them.
Fire, wanna make a playable cannon-beetle race? ;D
Post by: fire1666 on November 16, 2012, 02:38:11 am
Is the code working so far Fire?yes its working XD
and i wana say somthign real quick
i have no idea HOW its working it just is XD
also this is all within the LORE is it?
Post by: fire1666 on November 16, 2012, 02:43:40 am
double post againAnyone else seen a crystal dragon, yet? Or a cannon beetle? Interesting creatures I have never seen before :(
I just started a map on the newest LoFR release (after first a break from DF, and then playing a community game of vanilla DF, oh, how I missed the things I'd come to love through the mod!).
I have no idea if it's still rare to see the critters you were asking about, Pan, but as I checked the local critters about a month after starting play, ahh, there some cannon beetles are.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
The biome's a mix of mountains, rocky wasteland, and temperate savanna, temperate range seems to be mid to high, in case others are still seeking the (no longer rare?) beetle.
Edited to add, these beetles are awesome. They behave exactly how I wish my dwarven ranged troops would. So I have 2 war tigers and 2 war dogs, and all my dwarves but one are gathering plants along the edge of the map where they grow, the one is making picks. As plants get picked the random dwarf runs back to store it... sometimes followed by a war beast, each one was trained by a different dwarf.
The cannon beetles have wandered across much of the map; the war beasts IGNORE them. Even when they get shot by the stones. The beetles shy away from my dwarves and animals, like other harmless wildlife does. This is sad; I'd hoped the war beasts would attack them on sight... I really expected them to fight back once they started getting bruised.
As a dirty save scummer, especially as I check out new game features, I knew just what to do; I'd already saved the game, so I saved it again, in case these stones were capable of doing more than bruising. They were; so I reloaded and drafted everyone to move near a beetle.
Hah. They ignored it, it shied away from them, and continued to lob stones at them from a distance, which they ignored even as they got wounded.
Nothing for it then; kill it guys!
It's fast. And it doesn't slow down to fire the stones, and it apparently has eaten a LOT of them, because it just keeps shooting and shooting. My warbeasts are perfectly happy to follow their trainers; perhaps they could catch the beetle quickly but they're not trying to, they think it's a game I guess...
One of my starting 7 is -just- barely fast enough to close the distance. He dodges a couple stones, gets smacked by a lot of them, mostly bone bruises, though quite a few muscle bruises and a gut bruise too. He gets close enough at last to attack it; of course he's not at all trained, it dodges him and seconds after fires another stone at him, breaking a finger.
Fascinating creatures. I want my dwarves to be like them.
Fire, wanna make a playable cannon-beetle race? ;D
FFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU-
im currently working on making voidwalkers playable, but i have plans for other races later on, mabe the evil races and some of the good races...
playable cannon beetles would be fucking hillarious but i think i could try to work on that once everything else is done XD
Post by: fire1666 on November 16, 2012, 01:03:38 pm
Code: [Select]
[BUILDING_WORKSHOP:VOIDWALKER_WEAPONS_SUMMONING]
[NAME:Voidwalker weapons summoning rift]
[NAME_COLOR:7:0:1]
[WORK_LOCATION:3:3]
[DIM:5:5]
[BLOCK:1:0:0:0:0:0]
[BLOCK:2:0:0:0:0:0]
[BLOCK:3:0:0:0:0:0]
[BLOCK:4:0:0:0:0:0]
[BLOCK:5:0:0:0:0:0]
[TILE:0:1:32:32:32:32:32]
[TILE:0:2:32:32:32:32:32]
[TILE:0:3:32:32:32:32:32]
[TILE:0:4:32:32:32:32:32]
[TILE:0:5:32:32:32:32:32]
[COLOR:0:1:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0]
[COLOR:0:2:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0]
[COLOR:0:3:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0]
[COLOR:0:4:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0]
[COLOR:0:5:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0]
[TILE:1:1:32:32:32:32:32]
[TILE:1:2:32:32:32:32:32]
[TILE:1:3:32:32:32:32:32]
[TILE:1:4:32:32:32:32:32]
[TILE:1:5:32:32:32:32:32]
[COLOR:1:1:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0]
[COLOR:1:2:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0]
[COLOR:1:3:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0]
[COLOR:1:4:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0]
[COLOR:1:5:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0]
[TILE:2:1:32:32:32:32:32]
[TILE:2:2:32:32:32:32:32]
[TILE:2:3:32:32:32:32:32]
[TILE:2:4:32:32:32:32:32]
[TILE:2:5:32:32:32:32:32]
[COLOR:2:1:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0]
[COLOR:2:2:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0]
[COLOR:2:3:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0]
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[COLOR:2:5:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0]
[TILE:3:1:201:205:205:205:187]
[TILE:3:2:186:137:4:137:186]
[TILE:3:3:186:137:8:137:186]
[TILE:3:4:186:137:137:137:186]
[TILE:3:5:200:199:197:199:188]
[COLOR:3:1:5:7:0:5:7:0:5:7:0:5:7:0:5:7:0]
[COLOR:3:2:5:7:0:7:5:0:5:5:1:7:5:0:5:7:0]
[COLOR:3:3:5:7:0:7:5:0:0:5:1:7:5:0:5:7:0]
[COLOR:3:4:5:7:0:7:5:0:7:5:0:7:5:0:5:7:0]
[COLOR:3:5:5:7:0:5:7:0:5:7:0:5:7:0:5:7:0]
[BUILD_ITEM:6:NONE:NONE:NONE:NONE][BUILDMAT][WORTHLESS_STONE_ONLY][CAN_USE_ARTIFACT]ANDCode: [Select]
********************************************************
******************WEAPONS SUMMONING*********************
********************************************************
[REACTION:VOIDWALKER_REAVER]
[NAME:Summon Void Reaver]
[BUILDING:VOIDWALKER_WEAPONS_SUMMONING:NONE]
[REAGENT:A:450:BAR:NO_SUBTYPE:INORGANIC:VOIDSHARD]
[PRODUCT:100:1:WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_VOID_REAVER:GET_MATERIAL_FROM_REAGENT:A:NONE]
[SKILL:FORGE_WEAPON]
[REACTION:VOIDWALKER_SPEAR_TWO]
[NAME:Summon Void Spike]
[BUILDING:VOIDWALKER_WEAPONS_SUMMONING:NONE]
[REAGENT:A:450:BAR:NO_SUBTYPE:INORGANIC:VOIDSHARD]
[PRODUCT:100:1:WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_VOID_SPEAR_TWO:GET_MATERIAL_FROM_REAGENT:A:NONE]
[SKILL:FORGE_WEAPON]
[REACTION:VOIDWALKER_SPEAR_ONE]
[NAME:Summon Void Polearm]
[BUILDING:VOIDWALKER_WEAPONS_SUMMONING:NONE]
[REAGENT:A:450:BAR:NO_SUBTYPE:INORGANIC:VOIDSHARD]
[PRODUCT:100:1:WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_VOID_SPEAR_ONE:GET_MATERIAL_FROM_REAGENT:A:NONE]
[SKILL:FORGE_WEAPON]
[REACTION:VOIDWALKER_KNIFE]
[NAME:Summon Void Razor]
[BUILDING:VOIDWALKER_WEAPONS_SUMMONING:NONE]
[REAGENT:A:450:BAR:NO_SUBTYPE:INORGANIC:VOIDSHARD]
[PRODUCT:100:1:WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_VOID_KNIFE:GET_MATERIAL_FROM_REAGENT:A:NONE]
[SKILL:FORGE_WEAPON]
[REACTION:VOIDWALKER_CUTTER]
[NAME:Summon Void Blade]
[BUILDING:VOIDWALKER_WEAPONS_SUMMONING:NONE]
[REAGENT:A:450:BAR:NO_SUBTYPE:INORGANIC:VOIDSHARD]
[PRODUCT:100:1:WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_VOID_CUTTER:GET_MATERIAL_FROM_REAGENT:A:NONE]
[SKILL:FORGE_WEAPON]
[REACTION:VOIDWALKER_PROJECTOR]
[NAME:Summon Void Projector]
[BUILDING:VOIDWALKER_WEAPONS_SUMMONING:NONE]
[REAGENT:A:450:BAR:NO_SUBTYPE:INORGANIC:VOIDSHARD]
[PRODUCT:100:1:WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_VOID_THROWER:GET_MATERIAL_FROM_REAGENT:A:NONE]
[SKILL:FORGE_WEAPON]
[REACTION:VOIDWALKER_CUDGEL]
[NAME:Summon Void Cudgel]
[BUILDING:VOIDWALKER_WEAPONS_SUMMONING:NONE]
[REAGENT:A:450:BAR:NO_SUBTYPE:INORGANIC:VOIDSHARD]
[PRODUCT:100:1:WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_VOID_CUDGEL:GET_MATERIAL_FROM_REAGENT:A:NONE]
[SKILL:FORGE_WEAPON]
[REACTION:VOIDWALKER_STAFF]
[NAME:Summon Void Combat Staff]
[BUILDING:VOIDWALKER_WEAPONS_SUMMONING:NONE]
[REAGENT:A:450:BAR:NO_SUBTYPE:INORGANIC:VOIDSHARD]
[PRODUCT:100:1:WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_VOID_STAFF:GET_MATERIAL_FROM_REAGENT:A:NONE]
[SKILL:FORGE_WEAPON]
[REACTION:VOIDWALKER_ENERGY_AMMO]
[NAME:Summon Void Energys For The Projectors]
[BUILDING:VOIDWALKER_WEAPONS_SUMMONING:NONE]
[REAGENT:A:450:BAR:NO_SUBTYPE:INORGANIC:VOIDSHARD]
[PRODUCT:100:30:AMMO:ITEM_AMMO_VOID:GET_MATERIAL_FROM_REAGENT:A:NONE]
[SKILL:FORGE_WEAPON]
Post by: katana on November 16, 2012, 01:26:40 pm
Post by: fire1666 on November 16, 2012, 01:41:00 pm
Post by: Stirk on November 16, 2012, 01:43:57 pm
Quote
Fire, even you're annoyed at your double posting- why not edit?
Because then we don't get the bumps.
Quote
more progres :D
You should probably give the reactions a skill-otherwise they will all end up no quality.
Post by: fire1666 on November 16, 2012, 01:58:17 pm
What im planning on doing is get ALL reactions / buildings DONE THEN set skill's that way the most important part is done, anyways the weapons smith and heart is done, next is the agri building *workshop farm* consumes voidshards and coke + seeds to make full crops, no need for farm plots
sorry for above the quote button broke D:
Post by: Stirk on November 16, 2012, 02:07:53 pm
Quote
What im planning on doing is get ALL reactions / buildings DONE THEN set skill's that way the most important part is done, anyways the weapons smith and heart is done, next is the agri building *workshop farm* consumes voidshards and coke + seeds to make full crops, no need for farm plots
So you are going to finish some of it....then go back and finish it? Why? It can't be easier then just finishing it right now....
Quote
sorry for above the quote button broke D:
......How?
Post by: fire1666 on November 16, 2012, 02:09:10 pm
1: just the way i workQuoteWhat im planning on doing is get ALL reactions / buildings DONE THEN set skill's that way the most important part is done, anyways the weapons smith and heart is done, next is the agri building *workshop farm* consumes voidshards and coke + seeds to make full crops, no need for farm plots
So you are going to finish some of it....then go back and finish it? Why? It can't be easier then just finishing it right now....Quotesorry for above the quote button broke D:
......How?
2: i deleted somthing in the text message XD
Post by: Stirk on November 16, 2012, 02:14:57 pm
Quote
1: just the way i work
It is literally just copying and pasting FORGE_WEAPON to the proper place. It would be like doing most of a math problem, but then leaving out all "2"s to be put back in later.
Post by: fire1666 on November 16, 2012, 02:27:09 pm
i dont want to start a flame war but can i just work the way i want too?Quote1: just the way i work
It is literally just copying and pasting FORGE_WEAPON to the proper place. It would be like doing most of a math problem, but then leaving out all "2"s to be put back in later.
but yah point taken ill remebr for the future
Post by: Pan on November 16, 2012, 09:54:10 pm
Imp, you should capture these beetles. And don't kill them -.- They might go extinct that way.
Post by: Imp on November 16, 2012, 10:21:38 pm
Imp, you should capture these beetles. And don't kill them -.- They might go extinct that way.
Oh, I want those beetles desperately. And I don't especially want to kill them... Especially with their awesome and unique combination of behaviors. I want them tamed. But the thing is... It's a month into start of play. I don't have much means to force them into a trap yet, and my dwarves can't catch them very safely.... my one dwarf that is faster than at least the beetle I picked to try and kill is barely faster... and enough stones fired at him eventually does to much damage. These stones sometimes just bruise, but they also break bones, and a month in I don't have much hospital capacity. I embarked with raw materials, not tools, so my dwarves are not yet underground; I can't even easily shield them from being seen and sniped at - and it is awesome and incredibly annoying that my warbeasts ignore the harrassment.
It's delightful, just rather more delightful than I expected :D
Post by: Pan on November 17, 2012, 12:15:00 am
Post by: Imp on November 17, 2012, 12:28:04 am
Hm, I guess you will have to just ignore the harassment for now and try in future. I guess the simplest option is to herd them into a pre-set line of cage traps, though you'll need a ton of cages and mechanics for that.
::) Ignoring them is hard too. They're not ignoring me! I may be rolling back to my initial save, cause... I do want to play with these guys. Just.... a little later.
Post by: Pan on November 17, 2012, 12:56:37 am
Post by: fire1666 on November 17, 2012, 05:02:25 am
Code: [Select]
[BUILDING_WORKSHOP:VOIDWALKER_AGRI]
[NAME:Citidel food cogintator]
[NAME_COLOR:7:0:1]
[WORK_LOCATION:2:3]
[BUILD_LABOR:HERBALISM]
[BUILD_KEY:CUSTOM_SHIFT_S]
[DIM:11:5]
[BLOCK:1:1:1:1:1:1:1:1:1:1:1:1]
[BLOCK:2:1:0:0:1:1:1:1:1:1:1:1]
[BLOCK:3:1:0:0:1:1:1:1:1:1:1:1]
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[BUILD_ITEM:6:NONE:NONE:NONE:NONE][BUILDMAT][WORTHLESS_STONE_ONLY][CAN_USE_ARTIFACT]and reactionsCode: [Select]
[REACTION:VOIDWALKER_MUCK_ROOT]
[NAME:Sacrafice voidshard for muck-roots]
[BUILDING:VOIDWALKER_AGRI:NONE]
[REAGENT:A:150:BAR:NO_SUBTYPE:INORGANIC:VOIDSHARD]
[PRODUCT:100:12:PLANT:NONE:PLANT_MAT:ROOT_MUCK:STRUCTURAL]
[SKILL:HERBALISM]
[REACTION:VOIDWALKER_SWEET_POD]
[NAME:Sacrafice voidshard for Sweetpods]
[BUILDING:VOIDWALKER_AGRI:NONE]
[REAGENT:A:150:BAR:NO_SUBTYPE:INORGANIC:VOIDSHARD]
[PRODUCT:100:12:PLANT:NONE:PLANT_MAT:POD_SWEET:STRUCTURAL]
[SKILL:HERBALISM]
[REACTION:VOIDWALKER_PLUMP_HELMET]
[NAME:Sacrafice Voidshards For Plump-Helmets, The Plant Of The Dwarfs]
[BUILDING:VOIDWALKER_AGRI:NONE]
[REAGENT:A:150:BAR:NO_SUBTYPE:INORGANIC:VOIDSHARD]
[PRODUCT:100:12:PLANT:NONE:PLANT_MAT:MUSHROOM_HELMET_PLUMP:STRUCTURAL]
[SKILL:HERBALISM]
[REACTION:VOIDWALKER_PIG_TAIL]
[NAME:Sacrafice Voidshard For Pigtails]
[BUILDING:VOIDWALKER_AGRI:NONE]
[REAGENT:A:150:BAR:NO_SUBTYPE:INORGANIC:VOIDSHARD]
[PRODUCT:100:12:PLANT:NONE:PLANT_MAT:GRASS_TAIL_PIG:STRUCTURAL]
[SKILL:HERBALISM]
[REACTION:VOIDWALKER_CAVE_WHEAT]
[NAME:Sacrafice Voidshard For Cave-Adapted-Wheat]
[BUILDING:VOIDWALKER_AGRI:NONE]
[REAGENT:A:150:BAR:NO_SUBTYPE:INORGANIC:VOIDSHARD]
[PRODUCT:100:12:PLANT:NONE:PLANT_MAT:GRASS_WHEAT_CAVE:STRUCTURAL]
[SKILL:HERBALISM]EDITif i doubled the stats on any weapon does it make it 2X more powerful?
im planing on making a upgrade building for weapons and posibly mroe melee weapons.
Post by: Solon64 on November 17, 2012, 11:24:40 am
Doubling the weapon's size might make it too large for smaller creatures to wield (not sure how big voidwalkers are without looking).
Doubling a ranged weapon's firing velocity is unknown and not extremely well tested.
Doubling it's contact area would tend to make its attacks significantly less effective by spreading their force over too much area and they'd have a hard time penetrating armor. This is why skinning knives, butter knives, and flails/scourges/whips are so lethal: EXTREMELY small contact area means they're punching through armor and into spines and necks and heads A LOT.
Etc. etc. I look forward to any !!SCIENCE!! that occurs.
Post by: Stirk on November 17, 2012, 11:29:33 am
Quote
if i doubled the stats on any weapon does it make it 2X more powerful?
im planing on making a upgrade building for weapons and posibly mroe melee weapons.
Well, depending on the stat. For example, raising the weight and velocity of weapon will make it do more damage. If you are going to change the metal, then some are stronger if they are higher, some if they are lower.
You should probably also take into account that if you put it in their entity files, they will be able to make it in the forge.
Post by: Stirk on November 17, 2012, 11:30:50 am
Quote
Doubling the weapon's size might make it too large for smaller creatures to wield (not sure how big voidwalkers are without looking).
Actually, there is a separate token for the size that can wield it. You would just slow them down a lot.
Post by: fire1666 on November 18, 2012, 03:36:49 am
i set a reavers contact area to 1
everything was one shot killed XD
50 dorfs with adamantine and swords got owned by voidies lulz
dont worry about balance though guys ive delt with that, the reaver have its normal stats redone
Post by: lukstra on November 19, 2012, 12:57:24 am
Post by: narhiril on November 19, 2012, 01:36:52 am
I recently downloaded the newest version of the mod, and after a few years of performing alchemical experiments and reviewing the results, I have never gotten a slab for synthesizing hadrine, though I have already gotten many duplicates of all the other advancement items. Has the probability for getting this item been reduced? Or do I just have really bad luck?
Mostly bad luck, I'm afraid, since I haven't touched the percentages on those reactions in a while. If it's any consolation, there are a few other alchemy reactions to produce rainbow diamonds from other gemstones. Breeding carbuncles can also give you a rare caste of carbuncle that lays them as eggs sometimes.
Once you get a rainbow diamond, you can unlock the third tier of the tech tree, netting you a crystal growth tank, then an advanced alchemy lab, and then a scientific library. Once you have the scientific library, you can unlock any upgrades you may have missed from tier two for free.
It's not perfect, but I tried to give players multiple options for advancing the tech tree.
im pissing my self with laughter right now XD
i set a reavers contact area to 1
everything was one shot killed XD
50 dorfs with adamantine and swords got owned by voidies lulz
dont worry about balance though guys ive delt with that, the reaver have its normal stats redone
This is the root cause of the problem with bolts and arrows penetrating armor of higher material quality. One of the optional components of this mod adjusts the contact area of default ammunition to try and alleviate this problem. Depending on how that tests, I may be introducing modifications to ranged weapon velocity and force multipliers as well. This component will remain an optional add-on from here on out.
How is progress, Narhiril? :) Still clinging onto old LFR cuz of a good fort I got, but the new one should catch my attention soon :p
Imp, you should capture these beetles. And don't kill them -.- They might go extinct that way.
First of all, I'm glad someone finally found cannon beetles. You may be interested to know that I am working on a new mechanical construct that emulates their behavior.
Secondly, I'm going to be getting back into LFR at a renewed pace in the coming weeks. My laptop is currently in the shop getting its power jack replaced, which is the only remaining obstacle to finishing up 0.19b.
My dear friend has found an improved living arrangement, and my boyfriend is doing a lot better recently, so I will have more time to focus on LFR than I have in the past few months.
In a sick way, I guess it also helps that the other game that has been consuming some of my free time committed ritual suicide (http://www.gamebreaker.tv/mmorpg/gear-progression-in-guild-wars-2/) this week. I don't care how much money it nets me, I promise not to ever pull a stunt like that. Another topic for another time, though.
Post by: Imp on November 19, 2012, 01:52:15 am
First of all, I'm glad someone finally found cannon beetles. You may be interested to know that I am working on a new mechanical construct that emulates their behavior.
I'm definately interested.
This current game's given me enjoyable tastes of some things I'd not gotten to play with before, from them beetles to the awesome desert sandstorms, so very pretty...
Glad you're level of interaction with LoFR may be on the increase again, but even gladder to hear things are starting to go better for your loved ones. Awesome is!
Post by: Pan on November 19, 2012, 03:56:49 am
Post by: narhiril on November 19, 2012, 07:51:06 am
Post by: Imp on November 19, 2012, 12:38:41 pm
New poll is up. I'm interested in how this one will turn out, since I don't really know where to stand on it myself.
I can't pick any of those options (yet). I haven't actually ever played with constructs but I'm pretty sure I do care, I just don't know how I'd vote.
Post by: narhiril on November 19, 2012, 05:22:20 pm
The bad news is that I was told today that my laptop repair would take a minimum of six weeks, probably needing a new motherboard ($500), and that there was a good chance my hard drive would be wiped out in the process. I'm not a professional, but those terms sounded a little extreme.
The good news is that I declined the offer, and I have my laptop back. It's still got problems charging, and I'll probably need to take it somewhere sooner than later, but for right now, I have time and access to all my development files, which I'm going to be backing up tonight and moving over to my (aging, but still functional) desktop.
A friend of a friend of mine does computer repairs, so I'll probably end up asking him what he thinks I should do.
Post by: SanDiego on November 20, 2012, 05:46:05 am
Post by: Pan on November 20, 2012, 10:09:28 pm
Post by: narhiril on November 20, 2012, 11:57:10 pm
Always back up your hard drive in times of peace. I recently had a cooking accident with my laptop, and I was kicking myself for not backing it up. I did manage to recover the hard drive, but only after a week of nervous waiting.
That belongs in someone's signature.
Post by: Imp on November 21, 2012, 12:00:20 am
Post by: Pan on November 21, 2012, 05:43:53 am
As if never hearing the end of it from my friends wasn't already enough. :P
Post by: Imp on November 21, 2012, 11:46:24 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: narhiril on November 22, 2012, 01:04:48 am
And then there's times when the human merchants just steal the show, along with anything else they can get their clawed crustacean mitts on.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
It's a rare delicacy.
Post by: Pan on November 22, 2012, 05:46:52 am
Post by: narhiril on November 22, 2012, 12:37:55 pm
You can order them live in cages, too. What kind of easter eggs are they, anyway?
The idea was for them to wash up on the beach from time to time as a nice little food bonus with a funny story behind it. I'm actually quite pleased with how they turned out.
On another note, today I'm spending some time playtesting, and I've already identified a few issues to resolve. The most glaring is that slimers are missing a [LARGE_ROAMING] token, and it's preventing them from being available on embark in some circumstances. I'll see if I can round up any more issues today, and then I'll get the first revision out this weekend.
Post by: Imp on November 22, 2012, 03:11:58 pm
and then I'll get the first revision out this weekend.
We have another reason to be thankful today!
Post by: katana on November 22, 2012, 07:04:24 pm
Just a thought- Priests(?) of the gods? These dwarves would act similarly to normal blessed dwarves, but occasionally preach or something, having a chance of converting any regular nearby dwarves.
Post by: Imp on November 22, 2012, 10:30:26 pm
Possible small bug - ancient and priceless ancient vanguard rubble gets placed into stone stockpiles even if you toggle ancient vanguard rubble off.
In fact, if you enable a stone stockpile then forbid every type of stone - ancient and priceless ancient vanguard rubble will still be placed in it (I'm using this sort of stockpile as a 'final filter', it takes from all my other stone stockpiles to get this stuff that I want to save for later safely out of the way).
Post by: astianax on November 22, 2012, 10:40:42 pm
the leviathans are pretty similar, too. and they're not aggressive like i was afraid when there were two hanging out at an ocean embark pretty much right next to my starter seven...
Post by: Imp on November 23, 2012, 12:37:09 am
A weird trap/thief thing just happened.
Got Thief! protect the horde from skulking filth message and checked, one of my dwarves was outside my fortress, in an aboveground walled off area I'd not done any work in in game years, and was headed to drink when he ran into a lizardman mystic thief. I wasn't too surprised, then started to wonder, wait.... do I have enough booze? I did. And there was nothing to drink in the direction that dwarf had been. And it was very far from my entrances, all of which are trap protected, and have been for months...
I watch and the lizardman does indeed get caught as it tries to escape through my traps. So.... how did it get in? And what was my dwarf doing out there in that area to find it? Ahh, so thankful when this game confuses the heck out of me. I suspect my dwarf was considering treachery and had met the spy to plot evil, then regained his loyalty when he remembered that my fort's brew is far better than lizardman murk, and he was going to keep getting thirsty for as long as he lived...
Post by: SanDiego on November 23, 2012, 06:21:22 am
Post by: Pan on November 24, 2012, 04:58:50 am
Ectoplasmic residue is apparently a cut-able gem, too. Not sure if this is intentional.
Narhiril, Shedim sieges are really, really common. By year 5's end, I haven't seen voidwalkers at all beyond thieves, and the bog troll siege has just only begun, with a single warband of prodders.
Also, humans have fields of bluebells and mousebulbs in adventurer. Just wondering if that is intentional.
Shedim devoured corpses stand around as melted undead for a while after leaking a gas. Is there no way to make them disappear immediately?
Guess I should be giving the newest LFR a try soon. Been clinging onto my old fort for too long.
Post by: narhiril on November 24, 2012, 03:28:32 pm
Mm, the whole archeology thing is fun and profitable. And yes, there is still issue of priceless vanguard artifacts and precious vanguard artifacts colonizing stockpiles without option to turn it off in stockpile settings.
I know what's causing this and I am working on a fix for it, which will probably be out either tomorrow or Monday.
Ectoplasmic residue is apparently a cut-able gem, too. Not sure if this is intentional.
Technically speaking, ectoplasmic residue is a stone. All stones can now be cut like gems as of DF 0.34, so this is simply a byproduct of that change.
Narhiril, Shedim sieges are really, really common. By year 5's end, I haven't seen voidwalkers at all beyond thieves, and the bog troll siege has just only begun, with a single warband of prodders.
I'm not sure exactly how this works, as it seems to vary from world to world. I'm guessing it's based on site populations for each neighboring race, but I have no evidence to back that up.
Also, humans have fields of bluebells and mousebulbs in adventurer. Just wondering if that is intentional.
No problem here. They're above-ground plants.
Shedim devoured corpses stand around as melted undead for a while after leaking a gas. Is there no way to make them disappear immediately?
This is another thing I'm devoting a lot of time this weekend to determining the cause of. I'll get back to you guys when I have some conclusive progress.
Post by: narhiril on November 24, 2012, 04:48:33 pm
Shedim devoured corpses stand around as melted undead for a while after leaking a gas. Is there no way to make them disappear immediately?
This is another thing I'm devoting a lot of time this weekend to determining the cause of. I'll get back to you guys when I have some conclusive progress.
Update: I have this fixed now. Devoured corpses will now die immediately as intended, removing the corpse and giving buffs to nearby shedim.
Post by: Pan on November 24, 2012, 09:02:10 pm
First world problems: :'( Shedim don't eat each other's corpses, causes mountain of annoying corpses my dwarves leave behind in their sieges :'(
So, what's up for the next version, Narhiril?
Post by: narhiril on November 25, 2012, 12:23:49 pm
:'( Shedim don't eat each other's corpses
This was by design. Although, now that you mention it, I'm having some ideas for a possible corpse-eater pet to help with cleanup. I doubt that will be done for this revision, but possibly for the next one.
I'm still pushing to get this bugfix version out as soon as possible.
Spoiler: 0.19b Changes (click to show/hide)
Of these, only the final change is still unfinished, but I'm hammering it out and trying to get it tested today. Expect a new version tonight, or tomorrow at the very latest. I'll keep you guys posted.
Post by: narhiril on November 25, 2012, 02:38:21 pm
As always, please report any concerns or issues you may find.
Post by: greycat on November 25, 2012, 07:25:16 pm
Post by: narhiril on November 26, 2012, 10:09:42 pm
Thanks, narhiril! You're awesome. :)
These posts make my day. Seriously. Thanks.
I've been playing a lot today (something I haven't had time for in a long time) and I'm realizing that the gap between tiers 2 and 3 of the tech tree isn't behaving as reliably as it used to due to the new experiment result system.
Consequently, I'm spending tonight tweaking some percentages to try to make examination of experiment results more reliable. I had underestimated the amount of input required to keep the reaction running smoothly, and it's resulting in a lot more micromanagement and frustration than the old system. I'm aiming to remedy that with the next patch.
I'm starting by sharply increasing the percentages of all tech advancement unlocks - some by a few points, some by an order of magnitude. I'm also removing the distinctions between them - one advance will no longer be more common than others. This worked fairly well on the "slab of accreditation" system, where it was perfectly reasonable to have one or two training workshops feed a documentation reaction indefinitely, but it isn't working so well with the advances being tied to experiments - which require actual reagents. The evaluation reaction is catching up to the experiment progress, even when the experiments are given a substantial head start, causing the player to have to constantly monitor it to look for advances which are nowhere near as common as they should be.
In short, it's getting an overhaul this week. Evaluation will more reliably unlock new advances, and the evaluation reaction will queue itself whenever reagents are available for it. In addition, experiment results should not have quality levels - this was an oversight on my part that I am taking this opportunity to resolve as well.
Post by: Pan on November 27, 2012, 04:07:32 am
Thanks, narhiril! You're awesome. :)
^
Hm, a rainbow diamond disappeared :( I was saving it for the crystal growth tank...
Post by: narhiril on November 27, 2012, 04:28:17 am
Thanks, narhiril! You're awesome. :)
^
Hm, a rainbow diamond disappeared :( I was saving it for the crystal growth tank...
Moody dwarves seem to really like those. I usually get the rest of the components together before I make the rainbow diamond, so I can use it immediately. Alternatively, you could forbid it in your stocks menu.
While I'm playing with percentages, prayers for favor are getting a buff. Symbols are produced twice as often as before, and also two at a time.
Post by: Pan on November 27, 2012, 05:17:49 am
(http://i.imgur.com/LxHzl.png)
Was looking through my artifacts to spot which fool used up my rainbow diamonds, and stumbled on someone's stash. Ogh, wasn't counting on that that to happen again... much less in Dwarf Fortress!
Post by: Pan on November 29, 2012, 09:28:49 am
Post by: narhiril on November 29, 2012, 06:48:58 pm
Sup, Narhiril?
I'll be out of town this weekend, but expect things to pick right back up next week.
I spent tonight overhauling the title page. I got rid of the changelog (it's in its own file anyway) and screenshot sections, as they were either dated or unnecessary.
Post by: lukstra on December 02, 2012, 01:38:52 am
Post by: narhiril on December 02, 2012, 01:08:06 pm
Right now the reaction for constructing glass prisms of light produces an altar of shadows, a very minor problem, but just something that could be fixed.
Derp. My bad there, I'll have it fixed for the next release tomorrow or Tuesday. This upcoming one shouldn't require a new world, either - just transplanting the modified files into your 0.19b save will update it.
0.19c will fix a few minor issues and typos, as well as tweaking some probability numbers to make alchemy evaluation and prayers for favor more reliable.
0.19d will introduce scarabs as another construct. After that, we'll see if we can get the really FUN ritual units into play. ;)
Post by: ArchAIngel on December 02, 2012, 04:43:52 pm
Post by: Putnam on December 02, 2012, 04:56:27 pm
Post by: ArchAIngel on December 02, 2012, 04:58:38 pm
Does this work with DfHack? Avuzarros, or Minethrow, needs a good cleaning. 13 fps for 240 dorfs is NOT ACCEPTABLE!
Post by: astianax on December 02, 2012, 09:43:01 pm
Post by: narhiril on December 03, 2012, 12:32:07 am
Ok, are .18e saves compatible with the new version, .19b?
Does this work with DfHack? Avuzarros, or Minethrow, needs a good cleaning. 13 fps for 240 dorfs is NOT ACCEPTABLE!
1) No, they won't be. The only compatible saves will be 0.19b to 0.19c.
2) Yes, this mod works with DFHack. Nothing I have done should interfere with any of its functions.
Post by: Putnam on December 03, 2012, 12:52:50 am
Post by: narhiril on December 03, 2012, 01:06:45 am
In fact, nothing she could do would break DFHack unless she does some weird-ass... I don't even know how you could break it, haha. No need to worry, in other words.
I'd have to mess with the SDL or something - something I have neither the desire nor capability to do.
Post by: Putnam on December 03, 2012, 01:09:02 am
Post by: Pan on December 03, 2012, 06:22:09 am
So, how's about introducing some scary cavern stuff? Or maybe have underground silk farm-able creatures?
Post by: ArchAIngel on December 03, 2012, 10:04:22 am
ARMOK DAMNIT! I AM NOT GIVING UP ON MY 250 MILLION DWARFBUCK FORT! THIS FORT IS ALMOST 400 YEARS OLD! IT. WILL. NOT. FALL!!!Ok, are .18e saves compatible with the new version, .19b?
Does this work with DfHack? Avuzarros, or Minethrow, needs a good cleaning. 13 fps for 240 dorfs is NOT ACCEPTABLE!
1) No, they won't be. The only compatible saves will be 0.19b to 0.19c.
2) Yes, this mod works with DFHack. Nothing I have done should interfere with any of its functions.
Post by: Pan on December 03, 2012, 10:34:49 am
Post by: narhiril on December 03, 2012, 04:27:46 pm
Quick thought I had, I often feel the scariest of cavern creatures are underwater. The Watcher creature in Lord of the Rings scared me half to death as a kid (right along with the scene where Bilbo goes bananas in Rivendell), and I think LFR isn't really delivering that promise of the earth striking back anyway. I never see crystal dragons or sentinels, only megalania and deep wolves.
So, how's about introducing some scary cavern stuff? Or maybe have underground silk farm-able creatures?
The bolded part is an issue with frequency tokens. I knew very little about how the game handled these back when I wrote most of these raws, and as a consequence, they are all substantially rarer than intended. This, too, is getting a fix in 0.19c. Expect to see a LOT more sentinels, devourers, will o' wisps, etc. Jagged crystal dragons are still going to be fairly rare, but they're also being made substantially more common, so you can no longer reasonably expect not to ever encounter one if you're milling around in the deep caverns.
Unlike the other changes from 0.19c, these probably WILL require a new world to take full effect, but won't break your old ones if you include them.
Post by: ArchAIngel on December 03, 2012, 06:26:20 pm
400 years? Really? :oAlmost 400 years, 399 and counting, so will be 400 soon.
Post by: Putnam on December 03, 2012, 06:33:08 pm
Post by: ArchAIngel on December 03, 2012, 06:55:36 pm
IIRC that's a record.What? Really? 0.0
Post by: Putnam on December 03, 2012, 07:00:03 pm
Post by: ArchAIngel on December 03, 2012, 07:03:43 pm
The average fort lasts, like, 2 years. You are an extreme outlier.Really? 2 years? My shortest lived fort has been 4 years, guess I just have long lived forts. Although my liking for turning off invaders until I get about 100 dorfs does affect that.
Post by: Imp on December 03, 2012, 07:19:47 pm
The average fort lasts, like, 2 years. You are an extreme outlier.Really? 2 years? My shortest lived fort has been 4 years, guess I just have long lived forts. Although my liking for turning off invaders until I get about 100 dorfs does affect that.
I'm really curious - and maybe I'm not the only one. Would you be willing to put a copy of this long-lived fort up for download so we can see it?
Post by: ArchAIngel on December 03, 2012, 07:24:16 pm
Post by: Putnam on December 03, 2012, 07:25:56 pm
http://www.7-zip.org/
Post by: ArchAIngel on December 03, 2012, 07:33:06 pm
Post by: Putnam on December 03, 2012, 08:17:01 pm
Step 2. Click upload
Step 3. Title file
Step 4. Use "choose file" button to upload file
Step 5. Use "upload file" button to upload file
Step 6. Wait until uploaded
Step 7. Submit.
Post by: Xantalos on December 03, 2012, 10:58:53 pm
Post by: Imp on December 04, 2012, 12:34:32 am
Post by: narhiril on December 04, 2012, 02:16:17 am
I've read there's neat things that appear after a long in game time, like moss growing on constructed walls.... I'm eager to see what else may be different! I think my oldest fortress was a bit less than 8 years old when I lost it.
My record was 25, but that was way back in the earliest days of the mod. I'm a bit too tired to patch everything together for a release tonight, but it's all finished and I can get it released tomorrow. It's just a bugfix and balance release, so don't get TOO excited. ;)
It does include one new work-in-progress creature, which is only about 80% complete and doesn't yet have graphics. This one's unique in that it doesn't test properly in arena mode, so I'll actually need to encounter one in-game to make sure it's working properly. It's disabled by default, so you won't need to worry about it, but I mention it in case anyone is interested in going to see for themselves.
Post by: Pan on December 04, 2012, 04:49:19 am
I've read there's neat things that appear after a long in game time, like moss growing on constructed walls.... I'm eager to see what else may be different! I think my oldest fortress was a bit less than 8 years old when I lost it.
My record was 25, but that was way back in the earliest days of the mod. I'm a bit too tired to patch everything together for a release tonight, but it's all finished and I can get it released tomorrow. It's just a bugfix and balance release, so don't get TOO excited. ;)
It does include one new work-in-progress creature, which is only about 80% complete and doesn't yet have graphics. This one's unique in that it doesn't test properly in arena mode, so I'll actually need to encounter one in-game to make sure it's working properly. It's disabled by default, so you won't need to worry about it, but I mention it in case anyone is interested in going to see for themselves.
Hm. What manner of creature is this? A hint?
Post by: Imp on December 04, 2012, 05:03:58 am
Hm. What manner of creature is this? A hint?
Ok, I bite! I now bet that the creature is named, 'hint' 8)
Post by: Pan on December 04, 2012, 05:14:46 am
Post by: narhiril on December 04, 2012, 07:16:41 am
I just need to see one in fortress mode to make sure it's actually working before I give it the go-ahead for graphics and finalization. This shouldn't be particularly hard or time consuming, I just haven't done it yet, and there's not much sense in me holding up the release for it.
Post by: ArchAIngel on December 04, 2012, 09:29:44 am
Going to check the age, how long is a "short" history?
EDIT: might want to change the glitch that blacks out sections of the screen over text, turns out what I thought was a 5, was a 2. Avuzarros is only about a hundred years old.
Should I still upload?
Post by: Pan on December 04, 2012, 10:51:28 am
Post by: narhiril on December 04, 2012, 11:02:06 am
Hm.. Narhiril, you ever considered cavern races?
Yes I have. New races are a big project, though, and I want to finish my current project first before starting one of those. Right now that means a bugfix and balance tweak later today, scarabs later this week, also finishing the damascus sentinel drone host if everything goes smoothly. After that, I've got some options on what to do next - a cavern race and ritual tier 4 are among those options.
Post by: ArchAIngel on December 04, 2012, 06:12:50 pm
Post by: Imp on December 04, 2012, 06:54:45 pm
All this excitement over me? :o :) :o
Going to check the age, how long is a "short" history?
EDIT: might want to change the glitch that blacks out sections of the screen over text, turns out what I thought was a 5, was a 2. Avuzarros is only about a hundred years old.
Should I still upload?
I'm still interested!
Post by: narhiril on December 04, 2012, 08:05:28 pm
RITUAL TIER 4! *wantstoseenewgods*
I think you're going to like paragons. They heal at an incredible rate and can resurrect other paragons.
EDIT: might want to change the glitch that blacks out sections of the screen over text, turns out what I thought was a 5, was a 2. Avuzarros is only about a hundred years old.
That's an issue with truetype, which is something Toady or Baughn needs to be the one to fix. Sorry, I can't do much about it. You can turn truetype off, but it takes some getting used to.
http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=5823
Post by: ArchAIngel on December 04, 2012, 08:31:52 pm
Perfect soldiers! Sounds like !!FUN!! for goblins.
I think you're going to like paragons. They heal at an incredible rate and can resurrect other paragons.
Post by: narhiril on December 04, 2012, 08:32:09 pm
As much as I hate to sound like a broken record, please report any feedback or issues you find to me, as always.
Post by: Pan on December 04, 2012, 10:05:54 pm
Post by: narhiril on December 04, 2012, 11:19:48 pm
What are these new cavern races going to be like? Are there going to be anything unusual, or is it a more generic race for flavor?
I honestly don't know yet. Maybe I'll do a poll on it once I get some concept art done.
Post by: ArchAIngel on December 05, 2012, 06:41:53 pm
WHAT.
!!EDIT!!: Minethrow fell. Demons were slaughtered, and no syndromes came, but the fort fell to that dreaded being, a rift warden.
(I had managed to somehow get a caged rift warden. I had dumped it on the demons, and while it killed quite a few, I had expected it to die of its wounds. It proceeded to wipe out my entire fort, even my 43 dwarf military, which were not even scratched by the demons, even though I only used the military to kill the demons.Well, along with siege operators, but I believe those count.)
Post by: narhiril on December 05, 2012, 10:33:16 pm
.....The hell? I just got a artifact gold statue, all fine and dandy, but I look at it and it says that it is "a image of a nyan cat in gold".
WHAT.
LFR has a few jokes and easter eggs thrown into it. That would be one of them. It's quite rare, but if it's wrecking your immersion, just get rid of "descriptor_shape_easter_egg.txt" to stop it from happening again.
!!EDIT!!: Minethrow fell. Demons were slaughtered, and no syndromes came, but the fort fell to that dreaded being, a rift warden.
(I had managed to somehow get a caged rift warden. I had dumped it on the demons, and while it killed quite a few, I had expected it to die of its wounds. It proceeded to wipe out my entire fort, even my 43 dwarf military, which were not even scratched by the demons, even though I only used the military to kill the demons.Well, along with siege operators, but I believe those count.)
Exiled rift wardens will attack ANYTHING - even other exiled rift wardens (at least, I think they will. I've never actually gotten two of them together in fortress mode to find out). Also, I'm curious to hear what you think of LFR's demons, seeing as not many people seem to ever get that far.
Famines are supposed to be the weakest ones, while wraths are supposed to just be ridiculous melee combatants. Pestilence... are admittedly lacking at the moment, because their signature ability (plagues) is something I need to create a viable cure for before I unleash it on the world. The talismans they all drop will have a use in the future, but that's not anywhere near done yet.
Also, did you run into any hellions? Even an exiled rift warden would have trouble with a group of those. You've been warned.
Post by: fire1666 on December 06, 2012, 02:53:47 am
I AM going to start work again shortly after a few quick questions.....
firstly voidwalkers havent been modded recently have they?
and secondaraly can you make seperate txt files to contain the raws for say my voidwalker buildings, this way i can keep them seperate from the rest of the mod
i appologise for the delay but i am aiming or a christmass release so i have pleanty of time to make new things and make this mod hopefuly as epic as the mod its based on.
thanks have a nice day.
Post by: ArchAIngel on December 06, 2012, 09:37:24 am
Post by: Pan on December 06, 2012, 10:01:55 am
Post by: ArchAIngel on December 06, 2012, 07:06:15 pm
EDIT: also, construct light prisms has construct spelled as constrcut, which makes no sense.
Post by: narhiril on December 06, 2012, 09:18:50 pm
I've always hypothesized that rifts had something to do with voidwalkers. Punished cuz they let the voidwalkers into the world?
Maybe rift wardens are like The Last Dwarf in morrowind, survivors of some cataclysmic experiment, possibly involving Kexel. The medallions that they wear are put there by Kexel to keep them under control, and to keep them from repeating it. Harnessing the power of a god would be dangerous.
EDIT: also, construct light prisms has construct spelled as constrcut, which makes no sense.
Typo fixed for next version :D
Rift wardens have a lot of unreleased lore behind them, and it makes me giddy to see the tinfoil hats come out. I'll say a few things for certain...
1) Rift wardens are completely unrelated to the vanguard. A rift warden's power far surpasses even the vanguard in their prime. The vanguard, throughout their illustrious history, had no contact with the rift wardens.
2) Rift wardens and voidwalkers have previous knowledge of each other. The two are not presently in conflict - if they were to be, the voidwalkers would lose very quickly. I can't say more about their history without revealing more than I want to about both of them at the moment - I've actually been planning a seperate, total-conversion mod as a compliment to LFR that tells part of this story with the voidwalkers as the player civilization. Don't worry, fire, you're free to do your own thing with them.
3) Rift wardens live for millions of years.
4) Exiled rift wardens are outcasts, who had a number of their powers revoked and who have gone insane over their long milennia in exile. They attack everything, even voidwalkers and other rift wardens. What offense provoked their exile is another secret not yet ready to be revealed. Not all remaining rift wardens are exiles, though a sizable percentage are.
5) "Kexel" is the mysterious patriarch of the rift wardens.
Post by: Imp on December 06, 2012, 10:14:54 pm
Post by: fire1666 on December 07, 2012, 02:12:51 am
also is anyone going to answer my questions at the top of page 197?
Post by: narhiril on December 07, 2012, 03:19:46 am
okie sure thing narhiril ,but if theres anythign good in my mod can it get added?
also is anyone going to answer my questions at the top of page 197?
Right, let me get to that.
For your first question, voidwalkers last got changed in 0.19a (mistshrouds recieved a new ability). Except for maybe some more profession graphics (which I've been putting off for a good while now), they won't be seeing any changes before Christmas.
Your second question is something I can't answer without knowing your file names. LFR keeps most of its buildings in separate, appropriately-named files. As long as you're adding your own files, you shouldn't have any conflicts with file names, as I certainly won't be going out of my way to cause them. Just try to avoid "building_void," as I might use that someday.
Post by: ArchAIngel on December 07, 2012, 08:30:47 pm
Post by: Putnam on December 07, 2012, 08:37:44 pm
(Machine constructor is the ol' "grasp part falling off creature and animating that and letting the animated one die and resurrecting that workaround, I think)
Post by: lukstra on December 08, 2012, 01:43:02 am
Post by: Putnam on December 08, 2012, 01:48:33 am
Post by: lukstra on December 08, 2012, 01:52:40 am
Post by: fire1666 on December 08, 2012, 03:46:25 am
Post by: fire1666 on December 08, 2012, 04:11:17 am
i had an idea for the voidwalkers that might be very awesome...
im planning on making them use voidshard bars to make armour weapons ectra, but how about a type of material they can summon called voidic essence which will basicly work as a reacton addition but i dont know how to make it D: do i just create a new voidwalker toy or somthign like that or is it more complicated.
Post by: Pan on December 08, 2012, 05:04:21 am
Post by: ArchAIngel on December 08, 2012, 07:06:24 pm
Post by: astianax on December 08, 2012, 07:26:15 pm
The meowkin can now use and manufacture iron products.
i'm glad, although they'd always been my only source of brass anything
Post by: sensei_shade on December 09, 2012, 01:34:58 am
Post by: fire1666 on December 09, 2012, 04:11:49 am
this way i can keep a check on who plays dwarf fortress and it makes it easyer to had out *eventualy* beta test copys.
my steam name is [ThisLD] chaos lord fire1666
and for the love of god say who you are from the forums. almost got hacked a few days ago sadly but dont panic i did not lose anything :D
Post by: narhiril on December 09, 2012, 11:09:14 pm
This is by far the most FUN I've had writing raws in a long time.
Basically, what this means for you guys is that ritual units in tier 4 will work a little differently. In tier 3, you prayed to the elemental gods for symbols of favor, which you could use to "cash in" for a transformation into one of their units. In tier 4, you will only need a single item for the ceremony, which will be constructed once and then reused any time you wish.
So naturally, you're thinking, "that's wonderful, I can turn all of my dwarves into ritual units now!" Well, it doesn't quite work that way. Lore-wise, attempting to channel the power of one of the oldest and most powerful gods - the "originals," Visthel, Armok, Pel, Voruk, and Kogut - brings with it a significant amount of risk. Opening the portal necessary to convey an exchange of that much power leaves the invoker... vulnerable to certain paranormal and extradimensional phenomena that may happen to cross the conduit during the process.
Dwarves performing the ceremony to become a paragon of Visthel may get exactly what they want - or they may get something else. That "something else" ranges from, in the best cases, deteriorating effects on their bodies (syndromes, sickness, etc) to, in the less ideal cases, horrible curses and disfigurement which can even result in fortress-threatening catastrophes of demonic possession. Individually, all of these effects are unlikely to occur, but you never know when you send a dwarf to perform the ceremony if you'll get the paragon you hope for or a horrible accident. It will be important to plan your fortresses accordingly - putting the temple of origins right next to your main stairwell might not be a great plan.
In case you're curious...
Spoiler: Current (finished) possible outcomes of a ceremony: (click to show/hide)
Post by: lukstra on December 10, 2012, 12:02:05 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: narhiril on December 10, 2012, 12:55:13 am
Just a question on on of the possible products of the ceremony.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Don't worry, I wouldn't release a plague without some way of containing it. The plague works using interactions to spread itself, and expires after a while, after which it can be renewed by re-exposure. I have an item already that puts up a permanent, harmless syndrome that can block this interaction. So yes, it will be possible to contain and survive (or even prevent) an outbreak. The plague I've finished up for this particular feature won't be terribly dangerous, either - something like a common cold, which won't be killing off your dwarves in droves. Nevertheless, you'll probably want to prevent it or get rid of it if it springs up.
I'll confess, I haven't tested the effect this will have on performance yet. If it's bad, I might have to axe it for now.
Post by: fire1666 on December 10, 2012, 02:32:45 am
Post by: ArchAIngel on December 10, 2012, 10:01:25 am
EDIT: Just had one of those awesome coincidences that DF throws up from time to time. A single migrant arrived in the middle of a goblin siege, which had butchered a 23-strong dwarven military. Said dwarf was one of those combat savants, and had a steel battle axe decorated with skeletal elk bone. This dwarf was wearing either steel, or kitten or cat leather stuff.He proceeded to destroy the entire siege of about 140 goblins, by himself. No wounds, and he is now a legendary axedwarf. The name? OLON IRONBLOOD.
THE CAPTAIN HAS COME. HOLY SHIT. HE EVEN LIKES BLACK BRONZE.
Post by: SanDiego on December 11, 2012, 07:31:28 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Imp on December 11, 2012, 08:11:49 am
I mean everyone is giving birth like crazy.
Once I have married couples, at least in my forts, I find that they tend to produce 1-2 babies a year - unless I change the childcap. Might want to check your init files, especially if you recently installed a new download - chances are there's something there you don't expect.
Post by: SanDiego on December 11, 2012, 09:44:45 am
Post by: narhiril on December 11, 2012, 08:44:53 pm
I'm only still kind of tossing around the idea, as it's going to be difficult to make something that powerful balanced in any sort of way, but I've got some pretty fun ideas for how it will work. Essentially, it would be a construct built from a slimer, and you'd build a chamber above your fort entrance to "house" it, probably chaining it down. Then, you'd put a drawbridge in front of it to act as a firing mechanism, and some fortifications in front of that to act as its windows outward. When an enemy army enters its firing range, you'd drop the drawbridge and it would launch a hellstorm of meteors at them, throwing them around like ragdolls and lighting everything on fire in the process. All of this would work, in theory, but I'll need to figure out a way to make the cooldown timer on what will end up being a very complex and compound ability work properly. I think it can be done, though. I'm thinking one barrage every six months or so. Not to mention the years of advancement and resource investment to even build one.
I can't wait to build up a dummy creature to test this out.
But since that's a long way off, and while we're on the subject of destruction, I'll be introducing a new form of minecart to the mechanical tech tree in the next update that is designed for use as a weapon. It's called a "rail-guided ballistic ram," and it's extremely heavy. !!SCIENCE!! FTW.
I'll also be taking a second look at saboteurs and seeing if I can find a way to make them more common (i.e. actually happening from time to time instead of once in a million plays). The core issue here is that if they're born into the fortress, the watchers will identify them immediately and you'll have dwarves murdering babies on account of treason, but I think I have a way to fix that potential issue.
Oh, and paragons and exorcisms are working perfectly. Did I mention that already? I may have.
Post by: fire1666 on December 13, 2012, 02:07:12 am
the current release date has now jumped to january or febuary since i have alot of mock and real exams soon and progress WILL be slow.
thanks for your patients and have a !!!FUN!!! day...
Post by: Pan on December 16, 2012, 05:37:46 am
I personally dislike that artillery thing. Takes too long to set up. Much more interested in the expanding of the mechanical and ritual tech trees. And thrilled at the saboteurs appearing. I'd imagine they are quite vicious to have.
Post by: tahujdt on December 16, 2012, 03:05:57 pm
Post by: narhiril on December 16, 2012, 03:09:34 pm
Sup, Narhiril?
I personally dislike that artillery thing. Takes too long to set up. Much more interested in the expanding of the mechanical and ritual tech trees. And thrilled at the saboteurs appearing. I'd imagine they are quite vicious to have.
To be honest, it didn't work out quite as well as I had hoped, so it's back to the drawing board. Progress on saboteurs has been a lot more steady, and I think I have them to a point where they will "activate" themselves only once they've reached adulthood. This means that for the first few years of your fort, you probably won't see any saboteurs, but after that you'll have them start showing up. They're still not going to be common, but they should actually pop up from time to time, and you'll want to deal with them quickly because their actions will grow more deadly the longer they are allowed to continue.
I'm also considering cutting down the length of childhood for dwarves from 12 years to 4, seeing as most forts don't last long enough for repopulating by breeding to be a particularly viable method of keeping your fort going. Also, with this change, you might not be depressed every time a child is born, knowing that you'll actually be able to use them in a somewhat reasonable time frame. Even with optimized FPS settings, DF inevitably slows down over a period of 12 years, and depending on the size and scope of your fortress, it might simply be too long to wait for reinforcements. Thoughts?
Post by: Imp on December 16, 2012, 03:46:35 pm
Even with optimized FPS settings, DF inevitably slows down over a period of 12 years, and depending on the size and scope of your fortress, it might simply be too long to wait for reinforcements. Thoughts?
Regretfully, this might be a useful change for my forts. I say regretful because dwarves are so long lived; it galls to think that they might have so short a childhood.
It might make dwarven societies more robust in world gen too, as they would start breeding more dwarves sooner, and thus have larger populations by the time trouble finds them?
Post by: ArchAIngel on December 16, 2012, 04:09:15 pm
Post by: narhiril on December 16, 2012, 05:11:34 pm
Just got a lizardmen siege, what do lizardman mystics do? They all died to my 3 marksdwarfs before they did anything.
All they do at the moment is protect themselves from ritual unit hexes.
Even with optimized FPS settings, DF inevitably slows down over a period of 12 years, and depending on the size and scope of your fortress, it might simply be too long to wait for reinforcements. Thoughts?
Regretfully, this might be a useful change for my forts. I say regretful because dwarves are so long lived; it galls to think that they might have so short a childhood.
It might make dwarven societies more robust in world gen too, as they would start breeding more dwarves sooner, and thus have larger populations by the time trouble finds them?
I'm not sure what effects i will have in worldgen, though I imagine it won't be terribly profound due to site population caps. Conceptually, I like the twelve year childhood a lot more, but the game just isn't optimized to the point where fortresses can legitimately survive long enough to see more than a few generations. It's always been a dream of mine to see a fortress last for generations, setting up a royal lineage and megaproject after megaproject without succumbing to the currently inevitable slow and painful FPS death.
Post by: ArchAIngel on December 16, 2012, 06:09:21 pm
Thanks! Also, when paragons come out, my commander is SO getting made one. He has killed both of the amaroks that attacked, and got the title "the holy larks-counselors of healing." Although, are amaroks supposed to be this common? They appear to be the only megabeasts that I have ever seen.Just got a lizardmen siege, what do lizardman mystics do? They all died to my 3 marksdwarfs before they did anything.
All they do at the moment is protect themselves from ritual unit hexes.
Post by: narhiril on December 16, 2012, 08:44:06 pm
Thanks! Also, when paragons come out, my commander is SO getting made one. He has killed both of the amaroks that attacked, and got the title "the holy larks-counselors of healing." Although, are amaroks supposed to be this common? They appear to be the only megabeasts that I have ever seen.Just got a lizardmen siege, what do lizardman mystics do? They all died to my 3 marksdwarfs before they did anything.
All they do at the moment is protect themselves from ritual unit hexes.
They're semi-megabeasts that reproduce, so they're not terribly uncommon, but it's unusual to see more than one of them in a short span. Just random, I guess.
Post by: SanDiego on December 17, 2012, 08:19:14 am
Post by: ArchAIngel on December 17, 2012, 09:48:00 am
Another random, possibly noob question - are Lizardmen supposed to be strong, or is it the whips that are hilariously overpowered? My mostly iron/steel armored militia equipped with mostly damascene steel greataxes (also some mithril greataxes, tungsten hammers and random weapons I just made), which already annihilated three voidwalker thieves and several bog troll ones got absolutely massacred by Lizardmen siege that consisted only of copper/bronze equipped lashers and one mystic.Whips are like lightsabers in DF, very damn dangerous.
Post by: Pan on December 17, 2012, 11:50:40 am
Post by: Putnam on December 17, 2012, 08:48:47 pm
Whips are overpowered even in vanilla DF, sorry to say.
Doesn't mean they can't be fixed or removed entirely, of course.
Post by: ArchAIngel on December 19, 2012, 10:28:11 am
Post by: narhiril on December 19, 2012, 12:14:19 pm
What skill does a khopesh use? Just got a artifact one of candy called goremortals.
Swordsmanship.
Post by: ArchAIngel on December 19, 2012, 04:06:15 pm
Post by: narhiril on December 19, 2012, 11:18:04 pm
Whips are overpowered even in vanilla DF, sorry to say.
Doesn't mean they can't be fixed or removed entirely, of course.
I had changed these from blunt to edged attacks, but it seems that they suffer from the same issue as bolts and arrows - namely, that a tiny contact area seems to completely ignore armor more often than not. I'll probably return them to blunt and instead raise the contact area for the next release and see if that helps.
Post by: Pan on December 20, 2012, 01:20:25 am
Post by: narhiril on December 23, 2012, 11:56:01 am
So, what's up now, Narhiril?
A lot of tweaking percentages for the new ritual unit reactions. I want to strike some sort of balance between success and failure that keeps people from trying to convert everyone to paragons, while at the same time not making them nigh impossible to get. It's been difficult to balance, as paragons are functionally immortal, so I can't have a lot of determined people with full squads of them running around like you can do with the earlier ritual units.
One solution was to give them a "per-reaction" cost, but due to the way inhaled syndromes work somewhat unreliably, I disliked the idea of asking players to throw their resources into another sink that may or may not pay off - similar to how constructs work - because I know that can be frustrating to some and I want to give several different options to players when they reach the higher levels of the tech trees on how to spend their time and efforts. Ideally, a flat cost seems to be the most balanced approach, but it remains tantalizingly out of reach without a way for me to place a syndrome on a dwarf from a reaction at a 100% success rate.
What I've come up with instead, at least until the more idealistic options become possible, is a system somewhat like this. You create an "idol of Visthel" out of a variety of materials at the temple component foundry, which serves as the unlock trigger for the reaction, and can be re-used as many times as you like. A dwarf then takes the idol to the temple and attempts to channel the ritual energies to become a paragon. This reaction should be set on repeat (it doesn't use a skill, so it takes place almost instantly) until something happens to the dwarf, at which point you'll have one of a few possible outcomes...
1) The dwarf will be temporarily incapacitated. This varies from a temporary debilitating syndrome effect to a benign transformation that lasts for a month of in-game time.
2) The dwarf will become a paragon.
3) The dwarf will become a temporary danger to nearby dwarves, attacking them at random for a short duration until slain, exorcised (by a radiant priest), or the duration expires.
4) The dwarf will be consumed by the ritual, allowing a malicious creature to take over their body until slain. Dwarves in this state cannot be recovered.
5) The dwarf will contract a plague, which can be passed on to any nearby dwarves that have not been immunized. As I haven't had time to thoroughly test and balance this effect, it probably won't make it into the first iteration of this reaction.
The threat of unleashing horrors on your fortress from a ritual gone wrong needs to be the discouraging factor. I just need to get the relative percentages of these outcomes into place so that players will still be tempted to try the ritual to get a paragon every now and then, but such that it is impractical and unrealistic to attempt to assemble a large number of them. What this means is a lot of trial and error on my part. If the reaction is too generous, the substantial power of paragons will unbalance the game. If it's too dangerous, no one will bother trying. This development will set the precedent for the next series of ritual units, so once I get something I'm happy with, it won't take very long to copy the parameters while making lacerators, eyes of Pel, etc.
In the meantime, happy holidays to everyone. I want to take this opportunity, in the season of giving, to give thanks for all of your continued support of LFR. I know that the DF community is not very large, and the modding community is even smaller, but it's you guys and girls that I keep this project going for. From the fine lines of balancing to the harsh realities of technical limitations, from my first forays into writing lore and pixel art to the universe that LFR has become, this project has been and continues to be a learning experience far beyond the scope of my original vision for it, and I look forward to continuing to grow with it in the coming year.
Post by: Imp on December 23, 2012, 08:59:26 pm
So a fortress that's never-ever had a paragon is greatly safer trying to do this ritual than one which somehow has three? And at some point the odds of a successful transformation becomes 'effectively impossible' at some point, whatever you consider is the limit of reasonable?
Of course, if this works and you use it, a player possibly could create and abandon many fortresses, creating a few paragons in each, then in future fortresses just wait and hope that these previous paragons eventually emmigrate.
Post by: Putnam on December 24, 2012, 12:04:29 am
Post by: Stirk on December 24, 2012, 12:30:19 pm
Post by: Pan on December 27, 2012, 10:43:24 am
Post by: narhiril on December 28, 2012, 09:57:04 am
Post by: Meph on December 28, 2012, 02:10:40 pm
1. Turning dwarves temporarily crazed with CE_ADD_TAG:CRAZED will cause loyality cascades, which might or might not be fixed by the new dfhack.
2.
Meph: I might have something similar to what you're talking about. I'm working on (and mostly done with) a plugin to make boiling rock syndromes apply instantaneously rather than relying on the game to sometimes make them breathe them in and sometimes not. I just tweaked it so that you can call dfhack commands using syndrome classes.
Here's the short version: you make a reaction that produces some rock. The rock has a syndrome. The syndrome has syndrome classes. When the reaction is triggered, the plugin scans for a reaction class called "command". If it finds one, it considers all remaining syndrome classes to be part of a dfhack command. The first subsequent one is a command, and each one after, if any, is an argument.
Early testing is promising. It should work both with scripts and by directly calling plugins.
:)
Post by: narhiril on December 28, 2012, 04:41:01 pm
Before you start, two things...
1. Turning dwarves temporarily crazed with CE_ADD_TAG:CRAZED will cause loyality cascades, which might or might not be fixed by the new dfhack.
I know that, but OPPOSED_TO_LIFE doesn't.
2.Meph: I might have something similar to what you're talking about. I'm working on (and mostly done with) a plugin to make boiling rock syndromes apply instantaneously rather than relying on the game to sometimes make them breathe them in and sometimes not. I just tweaked it so that you can call dfhack commands using syndrome classes.
Here's the short version: you make a reaction that produces some rock. The rock has a syndrome. The syndrome has syndrome classes. When the reaction is triggered, the plugin scans for a reaction class called "command". If it finds one, it considers all remaining syndrome classes to be part of a dfhack command. The first subsequent one is a command, and each one after, if any, is an argument.
Early testing is promising. It should work both with scripts and by directly calling plugins.
:)
This sounds most exciting. Will it interfere with existing syndrome classes? I guess what I'm asking is, will it skip over and leave alone any syndrome classes that aren't valid commands? Also, will it respect the parameters of the syndrome itself (affected creature, etc) when applying it?
Post by: Meph on December 28, 2012, 05:34:57 pm
About the plugin: The text I posted is all the info I have. I am just patiently waiting if he posts anything. If you want more answers now, I guess you should write him. :)
Post by: Pan on January 01, 2013, 01:01:38 pm
So, what's the general idea for the next update?
Post by: narhiril on January 02, 2013, 06:52:48 pm
Happy 2013, Narhiril. Hope this will be a good year for both you and your wonderful mod :)
So, what's the general idea for the next update?
It's taken a rather radical turn after Meph informed me about this plugin that is in development. It's going to take me a bit of time to get everything working, but the plugin uses DFHack to allow a syndrome to be placed directly on a unit (or units, if specified) rather than having to be inhaled randomly. While the documentation has been released for it, the actual plugin won't be released until the next version of DFHack, so I can get to work getting everything set up, but the release is going to have to wait for the plugin to be finished.
After giving it a lot of thought, I've decided that the newer versions of LFR are going to be moving towards full integration of DFHack and its plugins simply because they allow for some exciting new possibilities that mods like Masterwork and Genesis are already starting to utilize. I am reluctant to create any sort of external dependencies, but the increase in both balancing and creative potential has gotten hard for me to ignore.
The way it works is rather exciting, and allows me to utilize the plugin for a "unit creation" reaction with 100% effectiveness, and still keep things like experimental disasters entirely random. It's going to be a bit of work to go back and modify a bunch of existing documentation and reactions to use this new system, but I think it's going to be a lot more pleasing once it's done. Here are a list of changes you can expect to see in the coming days:
-Mechanical construct assembly will no longer fail. Ever.
-Tier 3 ritual units will now have a set cost to build and will always succeed.
-Stacking a bunch of dwarves on top of a workshop to increase the chances of a successful inhalation will no longer be necessary - or effective.
-Tier 4 ritual units (currently only paragons are finished) will have two possible methods of creation. The originally planned random effect (risky) reaction will remain as-is, complete with demonic possessions, curses, etc. A safe, 100% success reaction will be added, but this reaction will require a substantial number of additional reagents.
-It will now be possible to station a squad of soldiers inside a temple to receive a blessing before sending them to battle. I haven't even started on the raws for this, but this plugin makes it possible.
-Effectively coating weapons with poison.
-A building that creates power (a coal version, a magma version, and a lustrum version).
-Manual targeting of siege engines - including firing across z-levels.
-Magical weapons and ammunition.
Stay tuned!
Post by: Imp on January 02, 2013, 10:08:55 pm
Post by: Meph on January 02, 2013, 10:18:14 pm
-Mechanical construct assembly will no longer fail. Ever.
-Tier 3 ritual units will now have a set cost to build and will always succeed.
-Stacking a bunch of dwarves on top of a workshop to increase the chances of a successful inhalation will no longer be necessary - or effective.
-Tier 4 ritual units (currently only paragons are finished) will have two possible methods of creation. The originally planned random effect (risky) reaction will remain as-is, complete with demonic possessions, curses, etc. A safe, 100% success reaction will be added, but this reaction will require a substantial number of additional reagents.
-It will now be possible to station a squad of soldiers inside a temple to receive a blessing before sending them to battle. I haven't even started on the raws for this, but this plugin makes it possible.
-Effectively coating weapons with poison.
-A building that creates power (a coal version, a magma version, and a lustrum version).
-Manual targeting of siege engines - including firing across z-levels.
-Magical weapons and ammunition.
All of this requires dfhack to be active. It also fixes some vanilla bugs automatically.
Post by: Stirk on January 02, 2013, 10:27:47 pm
Meokins never seas to amaze me. They brought in a tamed Clawed Crustacean of the Abyss to sell to the fine people of my fortress. Somehow. Cost me 10k, but no way I am passing up that. Lot and lot of fish.
Post by: Jilladilla on January 02, 2013, 10:53:06 pm
-Mechanical construct assembly will no longer fail. Ever.
-Tier 3 ritual units will now have a set cost to build and will always succeed.
-Stacking a bunch of dwarves on top of a workshop to increase the chances of a successful inhalation will no longer be necessary - or effective.
-Tier 4 ritual units (currently only paragons are finished) will have two possible methods of creation. The originally planned random effect (risky) reaction will remain as-is, complete with demonic possessions, curses, etc. A safe, 100% success reaction will be added, but this reaction will require a substantial number of additional reagents.
-It will now be possible to station a squad of soldiers inside a temple to receive a blessing before sending them to battle. I haven't even started on the raws for this, but this plugin makes it possible.
-Effectively coating weapons with poison.
-A building that creates power (a coal version, a magma version, and a lustrum version).
-Manual targeting of siege engines - including firing across z-levels.
-Magical weapons and ammunition.
Stay tuned!
Err wow... I am impressed at this... Can't wait for the next version, this has become a mod I cannot play DF without
Keep up the good work Narhiril!
Post by: Putnam on January 03, 2013, 07:59:45 pm
Will we need DFhack running in order to play, or will the required bits be incorporated entire into LoFR?
There is really no way to work this without DFHack, since the required bits are DFHack.
I got wind of this plugin too, btw, and I'm really excited now about it. Plenty of cool stuff possible with it.
Post by: Stirk on January 06, 2013, 01:56:41 pm
Post by: ArchAIngel on January 06, 2013, 02:22:11 pm
Post by: narhiril on January 06, 2013, 02:35:28 pm
Just got a carbuncle bone crown with a image of TERRAN PLANETS on it. What the heck? Easter egg, or something else?
Easter egg. In hindsight, "earth-like planets" may have been a better choice of words.
Post by: ArchAIngel on January 06, 2013, 02:42:27 pm
Post by: Imp on January 06, 2013, 03:23:45 pm
Am I the only one who thinks that the Zingers are kind of annoying? I was just attacked by the full goblin siege and a deity, killing their losing only two men, two children when the cave dragon squad got into my fort. We then lost 10 people cleaning up the injured stragglers because a underdeveloped fridged zinger kept exploding randomly on the guard tower. Not to mention the pyro zinger setting my charcoal stockpile on fire all the time. Any way to make them less annoying?
I've never had this problem, actually. Zingers 'go off' when they die, in my experience. I've never had any die of old age.
I keep mine pastured deep inside my fortress in a pretty safe spot. I don't let them get overcrowded. They never fight each other, and the only ones I've seen go off are ones I've placed somewhere I wanted them to die. I've never had any random fires from them or random deaths.
If you're having zingers randomly dying, after a 'diety' came, I suspect there's a syndrome going around, and it's starting to make weaker things die. Zingers do stuff when they die, so.... 'random' zinger things are almost expected if your zingers are running around everywhere when there's a syndrome making them die.
Good luck, and I hope these hints help keep you from getting zinged again!
Post by: Stirk on January 06, 2013, 04:08:11 pm
Quote
I've never had this problem, actually. Zingers 'go off' when they die, in my experience. I've never had any die of old age.
For me, it seems to depend on the type. Flash bangs usually just die, others try to shoot enemies. Usually end up killing my own guys.
Quote
I keep mine pastured deep inside my fortress in a pretty safe spot. I don't let them get overcrowded. They never fight each other, and the only ones I've seen go off are ones I've placed somewhere I wanted them to die. I've never had any random fires from them or random deaths.
What is the point of even having them if you are just going to lock them up?
Quote
If you're having zingers randomly dying, after a 'diety' came, I suspect there's a syndrome going around, and it's starting to make weaker things die. Zingers do stuff when they die, so.... 'random' zinger things are almost expected if your zingers are running around everywhere when there's a syndrome making them die.
The deity was just a normal enemy, one of those "15 dwarf large!" thing. The same as the kind that was leading the goblins, who was also on my fortress. No syndromes, and he started running as soon as he came. Probably noticed all his worshipers getting slaughtered. And the zingers where still alive and well after the attack anyway. I sent men to pasture it and one finally managed to do it.
Post by: Pan on January 06, 2013, 10:12:05 pm
I lock them up so they breed and I have a renewable supply of bombs.
Post by: Meph on January 06, 2013, 10:35:58 pm
Post by: ArchAIngel on January 12, 2013, 05:05:12 pm
EDIT: forgotten beast with a hunger for warm blood. What does this do?
Post by: Putnam on January 13, 2013, 02:12:26 am
Post by: narhiril on January 13, 2013, 01:41:42 pm
Ok, breached caverns, looking for a rift warden to test a experiment on. I found a bunch of sentinel drones, and they were FRIENDLY! Is this a glitch?
Yes, that's a bug. They shouldn't be showing up at all right now, because they aren't finished, but I probably (accidentally) got a testing file mixed up with the release.
Generally, if it's an LFR-related creature and it doesn't have a graphic, it isn't supposed to be there.
Post by: Stirk on January 13, 2013, 10:48:38 pm
Post by: narhiril on January 14, 2013, 02:38:23 pm
Narhiril, can I use your Rakshasa script in my own mod? I want to modify it a bit, I think it will make a good way for my units to fire missiles, and possibly using it to make constructs...Just felt I should ask permission before working on it.
Yeah, go for it, just please remember to give credit. Those were a pain to write. :)
In case anyone is wondering, LFR is currently waiting for the next release of DFHack so that I can fully take advantage of expwnent's new autosyndrome plugin. This has not slowed down development, as I have generously been allowed to use a beta version for testing, but I can't officially bundle and release anything until the DFHack guys make it public. Progress continues today on updating documentation to contain all of the new balance changes.
For the next release, tier 3 ritual units (this includes emberlights) will follow a new pattern for production - one symbol of favor (obtained through prayer, as is currently in place) and an additional resource specific to each god.
Emberlight Warriors: 1 symbol of Zalkor's favor, 10 iron bars
Wavebreakers: 1 symbol of Temanat's favor, 5 cobalt bars
Stonekin: 1 symbol of Kerox' favor, 10 silver bars
Zephyrs: 1 symbol of Lemox' favor, 2 aluminum bars
Tempests: 1 symbol of Bartoth's favor, 10 gold bars
Radiant Priests: 1 symbol of Gisthal's favor, 3 clear glass gems
Umbrals: 1 symbol of Pharis' favor, 10 obsidian stones
In addition to these cost increases, these reactions will now use the autosyndrome plugin, and will always succeed.
Paragons of Visthel will have two possible reactions associated with them:
Paragon initiation rites (basic) - requires one idol of Visthel (produced using 4 silver, 4 aluminum, and 4 nickel bars), which is preserved. This reaction will produce a random result, ranging from transformation into a paragon to various other effects, temporary transformations, temporary insanity, and, at worst, dangerous permanent demonic possessions. This will eventually include a plague, but that isn't finished yet.
Paragon initiation rites (lavish) - requires six idols of Visthel, 5 gold crafts, 5 silver crafts, 5 copper crafts, and 5 platinum crafts. This reaction always succeeds in producing a paragon. Yes, it's extremely expensive, but paragons are functionally immortal, so I think it's rightfully so.
I'll write more later. Right now I have to pack everything up and go to class. xD
Post by: Meph on January 14, 2013, 03:05:53 pm
Post by: narhiril on January 14, 2013, 03:18:26 pm
Could you please send me a few example reactions on how you handled the autosyndrome, as well as give feedback to expwnent, if you havent done so already. Last thing I heard about the dfhack r3 was 1-3 weeks till release, but of course this can change at any time.
My only feedback was on the order of prioritization for immunities and affected creatures/classes, which I already gave him on the DFHack thread.
But yes, I'll send you an example of a reaction and material that uses it.
Post by: Meph on January 14, 2013, 03:30:40 pm
Post by: simonthedwarf on January 15, 2013, 09:18:05 am
Also LFR seems to be spamming the command "gate" to DFhack, what is this?
Also Also, what job type does the MDL use?
Note: I'm using the iron mantis reaction
Post by: simonthedwarf on January 15, 2013, 11:47:41 am
Post by: astianax on January 15, 2013, 02:00:40 pm
that's not quite how it works, but figured it'd do well enough for explaining. if you set up hotkeys to quickly visit other areas of your fortress (usually, for me, at least, that's bedrooms, dining area, deep mining, crafthalls, and magma forge areas. if not more) then every time you try to zoom to one with one of the f keys, you'll get a message in dfhack about that not being a valid command. annoying, but you get used to it
Post by: narhiril on January 15, 2013, 02:50:27 pm
I thought of PMing you, but others might benefit from this posed question: how does the mantis reaction work? I keep doing the job "assemble iron mantis" but nothing happens, the stuff just gets used up. I've tried having a slimer pastured right next to the MDL, caged and chained. How is this supposed to work?
Also LFR seems to be spamming the command "gate" to DFhack, what is this?
Also Also, what job type does the MDL use?
Note: I'm using the iron mantis reaction
It currently works as a boiling stone, meaning it doesn't always succeed. This will be fixed in the autosyndrome release.
Post by: nekronuke on January 15, 2013, 09:38:30 pm
Post by: Jilladilla on January 15, 2013, 10:35:09 pm
what ammunition does the void hurling staff use?the same as the void energy projector iirc, the projector is much better at firing them however...
Post by: nekronuke on January 15, 2013, 10:35:45 pm
Post by: Stirk on January 15, 2013, 10:40:20 pm
Quote
got an artifact one at the beginning of my fortress
You got to kill some vodies if you want to use it as a ranged weapon. Still might make a decent whacking stick, depending on the material.
Post by: nekronuke on January 15, 2013, 11:16:26 pm
Post by: Stirk on January 15, 2013, 11:19:47 pm
Quote
Darn. I hope the don't trapavoid, so i can just strip them, and dump them into a 6-7 story spike pit
(They are trapavoid. And explode when killed.)
Post by: simonthedwarf on January 16, 2013, 02:29:47 am
Post by: narhiril on January 16, 2013, 01:34:08 pm
what job profession is fabricate magnetic dart launcher? it never seems to get done.
Bowyer. I figured bowyers were pretty useless, so I gave them something to work on.
Post by: simonthedwarf on January 16, 2013, 02:08:29 pm
Post by: Jilladilla on January 17, 2013, 04:41:47 am
My policy of executing bowyer prodigies may have to be changed
..... WHY?
they make good cheap crossbows!
the material doesnt matter much as they turn into metal ones once you put a bayonet on it (which ALSO requires bowyering)!
Post by: SanDiego on January 17, 2013, 08:08:59 am
Post by: simonthedwarf on January 19, 2013, 12:46:33 pm
Post by: javierpwn on January 19, 2013, 01:13:57 pm
Post by: Meph on January 19, 2013, 01:46:36 pm
Post by: Maximiliator on January 20, 2013, 06:26:01 pm
Post by: Stirk on January 20, 2013, 08:17:49 pm
Quote
is this mod well suited for an adventurer?
Adventurer has some additions, the extra races show up for the most part, as well as her adding a bunch of reactions. You can also choose to be one of the god races, meaning you will be able to shoot fire or throw magic stones. The extra weapons do show up, and you can make your own with the new reactions. I would say it is pretty good for adventure, though compared to fortress mode it is a little neglected.
Post by: javierpwn on January 21, 2013, 02:08:40 am
Kill an animal, get their skull or any other random bone
Carve it into 25 bone bolts
Use up 24 bone bolts
Use single bone bolt to make 25 +bone bolts+
?????????
Profit
I've also played as a void walker, it was fun killing everything, until the bogeymen came.....
Post by: simonthedwarf on January 21, 2013, 10:16:45 am
Post by: Pan on January 21, 2013, 10:53:58 am
Also, Narhiril, do you think it'll be terribly unbalanced for the Shedim to have a caste that flies?
Post by: Remuthra on January 21, 2013, 11:01:07 am
Or diversify the LFR creature count? Small touches and additions, here and there. Make people feel like they are truly exploring a 'forlorn realm'. Of course, easier said than done. I'm just throwing an idea out there. I merely suggest cuz I love it when I go into the caverns and see LFR creatures.I wouldn't think so, maybe a caste that flies and avoids traps, since Shedim otherwise are just asking to be caged?
Also, Narhiril, do you think it'll be terribly unbalanced for the Shedim to have a caste that flies?
Shedim are always my favorite race; they have this nasty habit of bringing along war polar bears.
Post by: Pan on January 21, 2013, 12:29:29 pm
Oh, speaking of which, seeing Simonthedwarf and Remuthra and some others (whom I've had the pleasure of having a LFR succession game before)... who's interested in a story oriented LFR succession/community game in the near future? :) I'm almost at the finale of my current succession fortress and wouldn't mind being in another, since the worst of my exams and stuff are over for at least a few months.
Post by: SanDiego on January 21, 2013, 02:17:45 pm
I think Nari should tweak the values a bit for her creature content. Way too often I see boring, standard DF creatures "block" her content. You have to purge the caverns before sentinels show upI don't see 'boring DF creatures blocking her content'. I'm literally swimming in Deep wolves, having commited several annihilation expeditions, sacrificing several military and civilian dwarves in progress. Same goes for sabre-toothed tigers. I'm yet to breach third cavern level, so I can't speak for them, but I'm getting as much LFR-related fun as I could ever want.
Post by: Pan on January 21, 2013, 03:14:20 pm
Post by: javierpwn on January 21, 2013, 03:16:07 pm
Their swarming tactics are almost as bad as crundles.....
Post by: SanDiego on January 21, 2013, 05:34:02 pm
Deep wolves are 4 legged crundles. No threat at all and a cheap source of bad meat. How'd you lose soldiers to them? Get em armored a bit, and he'll slay a pack himself!My soldiers wear full armor (helm, mail, breastplate, leggins, greaves, gauntlest, high boots, shield). The worst metal present is iron. They are armed with mix of damascus steel/iovium/captured voisdhard weaponry. Still, they die.
Post by: javierpwn on January 21, 2013, 06:17:37 pm
Post by: Stirk on January 21, 2013, 10:28:18 pm
Post by: narhiril on January 22, 2013, 03:35:31 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/YI3BUYx.png)
I later ended up moving the word order around so it reads...
"THIS IS JUST THE BEGINNING" (no effect) - runic inscription covering
As this was just a test, the inscription has no effect, but models how runic inscriptions will eventually look, with the text of the inscription in all caps, followed by a description of its effect in parentheses, followed by "- runic inscription covering."
I feel like the text adds a certain level of immersion and fun to the whole process. Ideally, I would have written the inscriptions in a different font or some sort of Gaelic alphabet, but DF isn't allowing me to do that, so just imagine that the dwarves don't really understand the ritual language in which they are written.
Spoiler: Some more planned inscriptions and effects: (click to show/hide)
Post by: Imp on January 22, 2013, 03:45:33 pm
Post by: Remuthra on January 22, 2013, 03:49:20 pm
Post by: Putnam on January 22, 2013, 06:26:09 pm
Just a sidenote, does weapon choice have an effect on attack speed? Because I would see a lot of use from a "YOUR BLOOD WILL FALL LIKE PETALS" inscription on a fast weapon.
Not this version of Dwarf Fortress. Next version of DF should have that, though.
Post by: Pan on January 22, 2013, 10:55:49 pm
Post by: narhiril on January 22, 2013, 11:10:36 pm
Sadly, I assume DF-Hack's clean function will also clean the runes off?
It won't, actually. They thought of that. xD
Post by: Pan on January 23, 2013, 04:41:02 am
So Narhiril, what's the change log for the next version? Any interesting new wildlife, in addition to all this tech tree business?
Post by: narhiril on January 23, 2013, 03:09:48 pm
:o I'm gonna have to visit their thread more often.
So Narhiril, what's the change log for the next version? Any interesting new wildlife, in addition to all this tech tree business?
Currently the only wildlife that is finished is a new form of damascus sentinel that self-repairs and launches attack drones, but from what I'm hearing an unfinished version might already have leaked out in one of the releases on accident. It's been difficult to test because it doesn't work right in arena mode (arena allegiances override natural inclinations, causing the drones to all attack each other), but I think it works properly now and it has a full set of graphics in the upcoming release. My documentation process got a little screwed up due to the whole new computer fiasco, so I'm still working on catching up with the full changelog.
Spoiler: Currently finished changes (click to show/hide)
I apologize that this changelog isn't longer - the testing involved for the new DFHack-dependent components has been a little bit slow, and paragon production chances have been hard to balance. There are a few new creatures, another workshop and its reactions, a new plant, and easter eggs I had in mind for this release that I simply haven't gotten around to yet. Naturally, those are next in line for my attention, and we'll see how much I can get done before autosyndrome goes public and I can finally release all of this stuff.
Post by: Remuthra on January 23, 2013, 03:32:42 pm
Launch fighters!:o I'm gonna have to visit their thread more often.
So Narhiril, what's the change log for the next version? Any interesting new wildlife, in addition to all this tech tree business?
Currently the only wildlife that is finished is a new form of damascus sentinel that self-repairs and launches attack drones, but from what I'm hearing an unfinished version might already have leaked out in one of the releases on accident. It's been difficult to test because it doesn't work right in arena mode (arena allegiances override natural inclinations, causing the drones to all attack each other), but I think it works properly now and it has a full set of graphics in the upcoming release. My documentation process got a little screwed up due to the whole new computer fiasco, so I'm still working on catching up with the full changelog.Spoiler: Currently finished changes (click to show/hide)
I apologize that this changelog isn't longer - the testing involved for the new DFHack-dependent components has been a little bit slow, and paragon production chances have been hard to balance. There are a few new creatures, another workshop and its reactions, a new plant, and easter eggs I had in mind for this release that I simply haven't gotten around to yet. Naturally, those are next in line for my attention, and we'll see how much I can get done before autosyndrome goes public and I can finally release all of this stuff.
Has to be said.
Post by: narhiril on January 23, 2013, 06:38:44 pm
Post by: nekronuke on January 24, 2013, 01:56:08 am
QuoteDarn. I hope the don't trapavoid, so i can just strip them, and dump them into a 6-7 story spike pit
(They are trapavoid. And explode when killed.)
What about drownig?
Post by: SanDiego on January 24, 2013, 08:27:21 am
Post by: narhiril on January 24, 2013, 03:50:46 pm
I found a minor oversight - Shedim Ah Tel have description of discordants.
Thank you, fixed for next release.
I'm having a little trouble with paragons at the moment which I hope I can resolve shortly.
Post by: Pan on January 25, 2013, 12:57:57 am
I'm having a little trouble with paragons at the moment which I hope I can resolve shortly.
Pray, elaborate?
Post by: narhiril on January 25, 2013, 03:57:15 am
I'm having a little trouble with paragons at the moment which I hope I can resolve shortly.
Pray, elaborate?
I'd rather not, at this point, since I've spent half of the day fiddling with it without much success, but I suppose it needs to be said.
Simply put, the resurrect effect isn't working the way it's supposed to. For some obscure technical reason, the ANIMATE effect allows you to fully heal an already transformed unit with another transformation, but the RESURRECT effect does not. In other words, paragons are resurrecting, but not being transformed for that brief moment that would allow them to heal up to full, meaning that they're being revived with all of the injuries that killed them the first time around. In other words, few of them are surviving for more than a frame or two, and limbs are not regenerating at all.
This never showed up in arena testing because I can spawn a paragon directly into arena mode without any active transform effects, but when a dwarf in fortress mode is transformed into a paragon, the transformation interferes with the resurrect effect. Curiously, the same is not true if the resurrect is changed to an animation effect, but doing that raises all sorts of other issues. I can get paragons to work, and I can get a reaction to get dwarves turned into paragons, but I can't get the dwarves turned into paragons to work.
What it means is that I'm going to have to do a pretty radical redesign of the entire paragon concept if I can't find a workaround, and so far, I haven't found a workaround. I tried a variety of different tricks, including pairing the resurrect effect with an animate effect (the animate effect overrides it). Unless someone far better at coding than I am finds a way to do it with an internal call to DFHack, it's not looking so good.
Since paragons work if they are born as such, I may elect to make them a rare caste instead of a ritual unit. I'm tossing around ideas for what this would mean going forward, but at the moment it just means that a lot of editing needs to be done.
Here's the idea I'm leaning towards at the moment - paragons will be a rare caste of dwarf that are born, much in the same way that savants work currently. Paragons are ageless and deathless, but are otherwise identical to regular dwarves and have no innate abilities. Paragons, however, can be "dedicated" at the Temple of Origin to one of the five original gods, which bestows upon them a set of abilities, but locks them out of the abilities of the other four options. Paragons dedicated to Visthel will be able to resurrect other paragons. This does not require an active transformation, so it *should* work.
A reaction will be added to the Temple of Origin to dedicate a paragon to Visthel, bestowing a few abilities onto them. This reaction will be fairly inexpensive - the rarest component will be the paragon. The current expensive and/or risky reactions to "create" a paragon will be reworked to have a much more interesting function.
I apologize for the abrupt change and any delays it may end up causing, but I simply see no other alternative at this point. Hopefully it will still turn out in a way somewhat resembling the original concept. It actually may be for the better that this issue raised its head now, as it gives me a few ideas moving forward.
Post by: simonthedwarf on January 25, 2013, 08:31:41 am
Deep wolves are LFR content? Hot dang diddetidongdongdoo. At any rate these ragged semi-dogs really do feel like four legged crundles, haha. And they show up a bit too often considering how little of a fight/challenge they impose.
I guess my complaint is deep wolf blocking other content! Though I guess its the job of the player to continually do genocides against uninspiring critters ;)
Maybe Nari could add a reaction especially using deep wolf parts? "hood of the wolf rida"
@Pan
Magnificent idea, really. The flying shedim thing. But I think you should take it to the natural conclusion.
You want siegers to impose more challenge, but if you add a caste you'll have the situation where probably one third of the flying caste makes a successfull attack, and the rest wait outside.
No Pan, what Nari should add if she wanted to go "crazy" or lets phrase it to make a real challenge...
Is make a race of flying building destroyers. That's the only way you can scare seasoned DF players currently, in my view.
Its funny when I think about the succession game, since I think I stated early that RL stuff usually dont block my gaming "commitments". And then a huuuuge amount of stuff happened that left me plucked haha. At least I was able to organize the start. How did the fort go?
Im definitely up for another fort. I'd like to do a fort where we attempt to conquer hell using constructs. Doesn't that sound pretty fun? We could say for instance that the fort goal is to produce 50 mantis or tarantulas.
@Nari
Another issue I have with DF/LFR right now is creatures with webs. They are lame in my opinion. I wish we had a construct immune to webs. I'm not saying its too hard, I'm just saying that a single devourer for instance can tie up a huge army in the caverns, while its attacks are glancing off some construct. I'm surprised the mithril tarantula isn't webimmune. Perhaps a weaker "slicker" tarantula with web immunity could be given a construct reaction.
OR.. OR...
Web immune steel spider-dog. I would like to donate 50$ to Nari if she adds that. Its crazy that she dont have a donation box already, I've easily spent 200 hours playing this mod since i found it.
Post by: Putnam on January 25, 2013, 06:10:59 pm
Post by: noppa354 on January 26, 2013, 09:47:32 pm
Post by: Jilladilla on January 26, 2013, 10:51:38 pm
Uh, is the conduct research reaction supposed to make 10 ethereal spheres (various quality levels, quite high though!) and a research result? I knew ethereal spheres were a possible result, but I thought it was one at a time.
yes it is possible for this to happen, it is NOT possible to make the results mutually exclusive
on that note, it is possible for the Weapons Concepts Lab to produce one of EVERYTHING on a single try.
the chance of that is much worse than 1 in a million though :D
Post by: Stirk on January 27, 2013, 01:43:57 am
Quote
yes it is possible for this to happen, it is NOT possible to make the results mutually exclusive
Actually, spheres come in rounds of 10. Always. That is the way they are coded.
Post by: Putnam on January 27, 2013, 01:49:33 am
Uh, is the conduct research reaction supposed to make 10 ethereal spheres (various quality levels, quite high though!) and a research result? I knew ethereal spheres were a possible result, but I thought it was one at a time.
yes it is possible for this to happen, it is NOT possible to make the results mutually exclusive
on that note, it is possible for the Weapons Concepts Lab to produce one of EVERYTHING on a single try.
the chance of that is much worse than 1 in a million though :D
As of the most recent version I have, it's about a 1 out of 10^445 chance to happen.
Shiyat.
Post by: simonthedwarf on January 27, 2013, 06:26:33 am
Post by: Pan on January 27, 2013, 08:46:04 am
Post by: simonthedwarf on January 27, 2013, 11:05:26 am
On a related note, is anyone else getting way too much weapon prodigies? These guys make it too easy to get masterwork weapons.
Post by: Jilladilla on January 27, 2013, 12:52:40 pm
That reaction is bugged. I've never been able to melt etheral spheres to ether bars. I've processed ether spheres at at furnace but it never produces anything, so I've just sold spheres cause they were worth like 10k urists each.
On a related note, is anyone else getting way too much weapon prodigies? These guys make it too easy to get masterwork weapons.
each sphere produces 1/10th of a bar, you need to melt all 10 at the same smelter.
the Process ethereal spheres reaction does NOT melt them, it just strips the quality from them (so your alchemists dont tantrum due to destroyed masterwork spheres)
Melting them is the same as any other metal thing.
Post by: SanDiego on January 27, 2013, 01:48:22 pm
Post by: simonthedwarf on January 27, 2013, 03:33:24 pm
The bowyer prodigies will pay for this with their lives!
Post by: Imp on January 29, 2013, 02:51:18 am
When I noticed that, I considered mentioning it here, then figured, nah, they're normals.
Then a caravan's human guard encountered one. It rolled into a ball. The guard went to town, hacking wildly at it, the first 10 attacks glancing away. The next 6 strikes landed, each one fracturing the shell. That 6th strike apparently managed to break the remaining connective bits, because on the 17th strike the shell was again struck, and severed.
Funny as it is to imagine an armadillo with the shell struck off - rather like the idea of an egg with the shell struck off, somehow without crushing the whole thing - what really amused me happened next. The armadillo stood up, then took off like a dwarf after some socks. I've seen a few faster things in the game, but my oh my oh my could that armadillo, minus a shell, run quick! It got around 25 squares away from its attacker before the apparently surprised human began to chase after it.
Made me think of one of those Looney Tune cartoons, Meep Meep goes the shell-less armadillo, neck and neck with the road runner as they race into the sunset, coyote and human caravan guard watching with equally bemused expressions.
Post by: SanDiego on January 29, 2013, 12:17:43 pm
Post by: simonthedwarf on January 29, 2013, 03:02:02 pm
Post by: Jilladilla on January 29, 2013, 03:23:27 pm
9 slimers pastured on top of the mechanized defense lab, and a total of 2 iron mantis reactions and 5 mithril tarantula resulted in no creatures. Is there a specific tile the slimer needs to be in or does the reaction really have such a low chance of success?
The unreliability is a by product of the current method of creature transformation reactions.
The next version of LFR will fix this, you will always get 1 mantis/tarantula/whatever per reaction (unless you have no slimers).
Post by: nekronuke on January 30, 2013, 09:26:10 pm
EDIT: i think the constructs should have equip-able weapons, or maybe have some ranged variant that uses bolts made of the same material it is?
Post by: simonthedwarf on February 01, 2013, 07:59:28 am
Post by: ArchAIngel on February 01, 2013, 02:30:15 pm
Post by: simonthedwarf on February 01, 2013, 03:37:06 pm
Post by: Jilladilla on February 01, 2013, 04:46:41 pm
Wait, you can't actually breed them from the empyrean. I suppose there is a chance that the normal carbunke gives birth to one?
Yes, there is a (small) chance that a normal carbuncle will give you an empyrean.
Post by: Imp on February 01, 2013, 07:03:46 pm
Yes, there is a (small) chance that a normal carbuncle will give you an empyrean.
Caravans may also bring them.
Post by: Imp on February 02, 2013, 02:45:13 am
They appear in groups of 20-80 with 10-40 war beasts, which they slaughter along the edges of the map. I know that's unfortunate though normal behaviour for them, but then it gets weird to me. After devouring those corpses, the shedim immediately break their siege and leave. Usually no shedim become harmed in that slaughter, and they do not appear to be suffering from a loyalty cascade either. Typically this takes them 1-3 game days, and leaves me with many yummy beast limbs to gather and butcher, but I really don't understand why, having bloodied their teeth and claws, they do not continue to press their siege.
Starting to think of this as Shedim Easter or something ;p
Post by: Remuthra on February 02, 2013, 10:16:09 am
My shedim siegers are acting like weird cultists.That happens to me, but mainly because the Shedim Supreme Commander thought trained War Polar Bears made good snacks. But clearly the Shedim are trying to summon their dark god.
They appear in groups of 20-80 with 10-40 war beasts, which they slaughter along the edges of the map. I know that's unfortunate though normal behaviour for them, but then it gets weird to me. After devouring those corpses, the shedim immediately break their siege and leave. Usually no shedim become harmed in that slaughter, and they do not appear to be suffering from a loyalty cascade either. Typically this takes them 1-3 game days, and leaves me with many yummy beast limbs to gather and butcher, but I really don't understand why, having bloodied their teeth and claws, they do not continue to press their siege.
Starting to think of this as Shedim Easter or something ;p
Post by: simonthedwarf on February 02, 2013, 12:10:20 pm
Post by: Imp on February 02, 2013, 03:05:47 pm
Probably has to with them hating life. Maybe Narihil could make undead mounts for them? SPOOKY
Well, I understand why they're killing their mounts, and that doesn't bug me or surprise me.
What I don't understand is why they break their siege and leave after killing those mounts.
Post by: greycat on February 02, 2013, 05:26:16 pm
Actually, the first ones to show up had no mounts, so they actually attacked. The ones with mounts just kill the mounts, then leave.
Post by: Remuthra on February 02, 2013, 05:28:16 pm
I have no solution, but I can confirm that the shedim do the same thing at my fortress.Doesn't happen to me. I'm playing on .19b, if that helps.
Actually, the first ones to show up had no mounts, so they actually attacked. The ones with mounts just kill the mounts, then leave.
Post by: ArchAIngel on February 02, 2013, 08:03:27 pm
Post by: Remuthra on February 02, 2013, 09:00:25 pm
Dunno if this is happening to me, I set up towers with squads of marksdwarves in them connected to the main fortress by a underground tunnel, so sieges just sort of splat very fast.I set up lengthy underground killzones with a closable side corridor. When the Shedim get there, they just hang out for ages, chasing things on the surface.
Post by: ArchAIngel on February 02, 2013, 09:59:18 pm
My method gets me legendary marksdwarves.Dunno if this is happening to me, I set up towers with squads of marksdwarves in them connected to the main fortress by a underground tunnel, so sieges just sort of splat very fast.I set up lengthy underground killzones with a closable side corridor. When the Shedim get there, they just hang out for ages, chasing things on the surface.
Post by: Remuthra on February 02, 2013, 10:01:30 pm
So does mine. The killzone includes an extensive system of murder holes.My method gets me legendary marksdwarves.Dunno if this is happening to me, I set up towers with squads of marksdwarves in them connected to the main fortress by a underground tunnel, so sieges just sort of splat very fast.I set up lengthy underground killzones with a closable side corridor. When the Shedim get there, they just hang out for ages, chasing things on the surface.
Post by: javierpwn on February 02, 2013, 11:50:51 pm
The flying Shedim Discordant Energy ball strikes the marksdwarf in the upper body, tearing apart the upper spine.So does mine. The killzone includes an extensive system of murder holes.My method gets me legendary marksdwarves.Dunno if this is happening to me, I set up towers with squads of marksdwarves in them connected to the main fortress by a underground tunnel, so sieges just sort of splat very fast.I set up lengthy underground killzones with a closable side corridor. When the Shedim get there, they just hang out for ages, chasing things on the surface.
The nervous tissue in the Upper spine has been severed!
Everytime...... They just aim straight for the spinal tissue.....
Post by: Jilladilla on February 03, 2013, 01:50:36 am
he died when a frigid zinger blew up near him :(
Post by: ArchAIngel on February 03, 2013, 05:06:45 pm
Post by: Jilladilla on February 03, 2013, 05:37:06 pm
Should I use magnetic dart launchers, or crossbows? They seem to be very little different, and I have enough metal to outfit my entire fort in candy, with candy melee weapons and whatever I want for ranged weapons. So, is there a difference?
Magnetic Dart Launchers are slightly weaker than crossbows, however the ammo is made in stacks of 60 for only 2 bars of metal, meaning your ranged dwarves will be able to stay in the field longer before they go to reload/suicide charge. Its also slightly more metal efficient.
Post by: simonthedwarf on February 03, 2013, 07:32:00 pm
Masterwork steel piercing javelins is your friend.
Post by: Jilladilla on February 03, 2013, 09:22:05 pm
I've noticed that darts struggle to hurt the tougher enemies. Bog trolls, voidwalkers will take a huge pelting.
Masterwork steel piercing javelins is your friend.
Except when one or five of them gets stuck them and they leave the map with it, the smith who made it will NOT be happy
Post by: simonthedwarf on February 04, 2013, 12:45:21 am
Angry smiths? There's just so much emotional response you can produce when your dining room doubles as a bowyer torture chamber
Post by: Spectrelight on February 06, 2013, 03:51:50 pm
Post by: Paramatter on February 06, 2013, 04:23:01 pm
Post by: narhiril on February 06, 2013, 04:38:32 pm
Paragons will now behave like savants - being born into society as paragons, which are the same as normal dwarves except with longer lifespans and better natural health and disease resistance. They will gain their special abilities when they are "dedicated" at the Temple of Origin. Right now, only one of these dedications is finished - paragons dedicated to Visthel will gain additional recuperative powers and will be able to resurrect other paragons. Right now, paragon population ratios are identical to bowyer and glassmaker savants - this may be adjusted in the future after some real testing.
Post by: Spectrelight on February 06, 2013, 05:24:29 pm
Did you try hitting "g" when you got to the naming screen? Pretty sure that's how you select the caste of your adventurer at creation...
I tried that, but all it did was switch between male and female.
Post by: Stirk on February 06, 2013, 05:25:03 pm
Quote
I tried that, but all it did was switch between male and female.
You have to play a dwarf.
Post by: nekronuke on February 07, 2013, 02:34:20 am
Post by: Jilladilla on February 07, 2013, 04:29:48 am
i don't see a temple of origin anywhere <_<
It hasnt been updated yet you silly man! Wait for version 20a!
Post by: nekronuke on February 07, 2013, 11:13:15 am
derrrp i knew that <_<i don't see a temple of origin anywhere <_<
It hasnt been updated yet you silly man! Wait for version 20a!
Post by: narhiril on February 07, 2013, 02:46:34 pm
i don't see a temple of origin anywhere <_<
It hasnt been updated yet you silly man! Wait for version 20a!
In case anyone is wondering, DFHack is what I've been waiting on. When autosyndrome is officially released, I'll publish whatever I've got finished as 20a and go from there.
One of the things that's always bugged the hell out of me is how farms 1) don't count as workshops for stockpile links and 2) cannot be easily turned on or off without having to set everything to "fallow" and then reset it all when you want to turn it back on. Tier 4 of the mechanical tree will be getting a new workshop called the Hydroponics Chamber, which will function as a farm alternative.
The Hydroponics Chamber will be a small building that can be built in a grid-like pattern. Each individual chamber will be able to grow any plant at any time of year, though at a substantially lower yield than regular farms (1 seed = 1-2 plants, 3-4 if potash is used). Hydroponics labs are not as compact as farms - each farm square can grow plants, while hydroponics chambers are 4x4 - but have the decisive advantage of allowing you to queue up plants through your job manager and keep a better hold on your food stockpiles and hauling routes. For anyone who is interested, I am also planning to release this as a stand-alone mini-mod.
Post by: Pan on February 12, 2013, 11:23:31 am
i don't see a temple of origin anywhere <_<
It hasnt been updated yet you silly man! Wait for version 20a!
In case anyone is wondering, DFHack is what I've been waiting on. When autosyndrome is officially released, I'll publish whatever I've got finished as 20a and go from there.
One of the things that's always bugged the hell out of me is how farms 1) don't count as workshops for stockpile links and 2) cannot be easily turned on or off without having to set everything to "fallow" and then reset it all when you want to turn it back on. Tier 4 of the mechanical tree will be getting a new workshop called the Hydroponics Chamber, which will function as a farm alternative.
The Hydroponics Chamber will be a small building that can be built in a grid-like pattern. Each individual chamber will be able to grow any plant at any time of year, though at a substantially lower yield than regular farms (1 seed = 1-2 plants, 3-4 if potash is used). Hydroponics labs are not as compact as farms - each farm square can grow plants, while hydroponics chambers are 4x4 - but have the decisive advantage of allowing you to queue up plants through your job manager and keep a better hold on your food stockpiles and hauling routes. For anyone who is interested, I am also planning to release this as a stand-alone mini-mod.
Sounds fun.
Maybe there could be something in the tech tree that unlocks certain plants (that usually cannot be grown) to be grown in these chambers! Like herald's horns or something... Not too sure how this would work, since those are seedless to begin with, but just some food for thought.
I think Bog Trolls die too easily in world generation. Always wiped out by voidwalkers or something. I honestly prefer them as the 'barbarian' enemy race over the lizardmen and goblins (these two races are pretty much the same: thieving, green, weak. Only difference is goblins are slightly stronger while lizardmen swim.) and would love to see them more.
Post by: Pan on February 13, 2013, 02:01:37 pm
Post by: narhiril on February 13, 2013, 04:46:56 pm
Sounds fun.How high on the tech tree are they, and what are the requirements? Clear glass, I'm guessing? They sound like they are mechanical, but would it include any ritual stuff? I'm personally not a fan of the ritual stuff, and like all mechanical stuff (innovation!) but that's just my thought. Will they be aboveground crops or below?
Maybe there could be something in the tech tree that unlocks certain plants (that usually cannot be grown) to be grown in these chambers! Like herald's horns or something... Not too sure how this would work, since those are seedless to begin with, but just some food for thought.
I think Bog Trolls die too easily in world generation. Always wiped out by voidwalkers or something. I honestly prefer them as the 'barbarian' enemy race over the lizardmen and goblins (these two races are pretty much the same: thieving, green, weak. Only difference is goblins are slightly stronger while lizardmen swim.) and would love to see them more.
I haven't decided on components yet, but probably clear glass pipes. There definitely won't be a ritual component to them, though I might end up splitting it into two versions - one that can grow only underground plants and one that can grow above-ground plants as well, which requires additional components (I'm thinking a lustrum lamp, probably made at the lustrum energy extractor). I had initially said tier four, but that seems a bit extreme in hindsight, so I may end up tacking them onto tier 2 and requiring a few advanced mechanisms or something. I was going to make them require seeds and a bucket of water (the water would be used up) for each reaction, but seeing as dwarves are complete morons when it comes to water buckets - preferring to complain about the lack of buckets of water rather than, you know, going to fill up an empty bucket - I probably won't make the water a required component - kind of like how the fishing pond is now.
Bog troll worldgen issues are something I'm aware of, but are a difficult issue to fix. I'm looking into some more solutions for them.
Oh, Narhiril, you ever consider making changes in the farming system? Say, by making the harvest time really long? It'd substantially up the difficulty, I think. I myself usually do this, and my own opinion is that this really hinders turtling and forces me to try my best to keep trade routes open. This would also make the upcoming hydroponics chamber more useful, since by tier 4, most people should be flooded with plants from a 4x4 farm plot and therefore have little reason to use the hydroponics chamber.
It's not a bad idea, and I'll certainly play around with it.
Post by: Lycaeon on February 15, 2013, 10:52:10 pm
Post by: simonthedwarf on February 18, 2013, 11:05:46 am
Make wyvern and ice dragon cooldown on their breath ability a bit more realistic, and make them tougher in melee. Add some resist like you did for empyrean perhaps.
That said wyvern attack (a flier!) was pretty epic. Savescummed that one a few times
Post by: Spectrelight on February 19, 2013, 11:57:22 pm
Post by: narhiril on February 20, 2013, 07:43:43 pm
The manuals are helpful, but there's one question they don't answer: which labors go with the new buildings? I've had jobs queued at my temple component foundry for months, and I have no idea who's even supposed to be doing them.
All of the reactions at the TCF are either stonecrafter or metalcrafter. I'll definitely put reaction skill notes on my "to-do" list for manual revisions.
Suggested creature tweaks:
Make wyvern and ice dragon cooldown on their breath ability a bit more realistic, and make them tougher in melee. Add some resist like you did for empyrean perhaps.
That said wyvern attack (a flier!) was pretty epic. Savescummed that one a few times
Ice breath actually turned out to be a lot more powerful than I had initially anticipated, so I may be revising the cooldown on it in the near future. Right now, ice dragons are actually a lot more dangerous than fire dragons - mostly because of the way ice breath tends to linger over a wide area.
Both dragons and wyverns (of both types) currently use a reinforced bone material, but I agree that they're way too fragile for how much damage they do. Dragons should be more formidable foes than most of the creatures you run into, and shouldn't be as easily slain as they currently are. I could experiment with giving them a new scale material to try and achieve that goal.
Narhiril, may I use the Hydroponics Chamber concept for my own mod? Credits will go to you, of course. Thanks! :)
Yes, by all means. Sorry for the delay.
Post by: noppa354 on February 23, 2013, 06:07:30 pm
Post by: Remuthra on February 23, 2013, 06:23:09 pm
Strange problem... I can't experiment, even though I have both non-economic stone and bins upon bins of coke.Is your alchemy lab in a burrow?
Post by: noppa354 on February 23, 2013, 06:31:53 pm
Oh, wait, everything's economic due to a certain group of reactions *glares angrily at block-making reactions*... but I thought I had it working before with mudstone, which is what I'm trying to use now.
EDIT: destroying and rebuilding the workshop fixed it, not sure what the issue was though.
Post by: tahujdt on February 24, 2013, 08:48:25 pm
No burrows exist.I wish LFR had a quotes page so I could nominate this for listing.
Oh, wait, everything's economic due to a certain group of reactions *glares angrily at block-making reactions*...
Post by: Tevish Szat on February 24, 2013, 09:05:46 pm
The Pale Continent is the largest. It has Meowkin, Lizardmen, Nephilim, Humans, Voidwalkers and Shedim.
The Continent of Dawning has Goblins and Humans
The Land of Rhymes and The Insightful Green Continents both have Elves, Lizardmen, and Bog Trolls
The Grasping Continent, lastly, has Goblins, Lizardmen, and Bog Trolls -- nothing but hostiles.
My question is this: I know that most of the expanded material would be on The Pale Continent... but really, with what's there and what's missing, what sort of experience could I expect on each. of the three with new races?
Post by: SanDiego on February 25, 2013, 08:02:30 am
The Continent of Dawning, The Grasping Continent - no comment, either no new races or no hostiles.
The Pale continent - Nephilim and Meowkin are just an extra caravan (Meowkin are the only race, IIRC, who sell you mech parts) and can be used to... bolster you defenses (in my current fort I have an alarming number of murdered caravans, yet no one seems to be noticing). It's the Shedim and Voidwalkers where the fun begins. Shedim can - and eventually WILL - bring creatures that are either really nasty or carry a nasty syndrome (or both). They also eat your dead, so you will see tombs dedicated to half-eaten corpses. Voidwalkers are nasty. They have brutal weapons and high-quality equipment (all they have is either voidshard or damascus steel). The positive is, that they can provide you with good access to voidshard, allowing you to create your even more brutal weapons at weapon concepts lab (≡glistening voidshard serrated spear≡ in hands of experienced speardwarf is simply the nuke amongst spears).
So, there you go, hope it helps.
Post by: Ashenblaze on March 10, 2013, 04:33:02 am
Going back to the title screen, the game crashed and nothing was saved. Now, I want really want that site and I'll embark there again, is there a way to beat that thing up with 7 dwarves?
(BTW, I consider this cheating but the game crashed and it's my first time seeing a rift warden.)
Post by: Putnam on March 10, 2013, 04:36:17 am
I embarked at a site with an exiled rift warden living in a temple of healing (basically a rectangular smooth stone floor with random pillars) and I immediately died.
You mean a shrine?
Post by: Solon64 on March 10, 2013, 08:50:17 am
is there a way to beat that thing up with 7 dwarves?
Go test the exiled rift warden in arena. Really.
Then go tell me if 7 dwarves, fresh off the embark wagon, would ever have a hope of killing it :p
If you survived longer than 10 seconds, you deserve a medal. And a sock. All the socks.
Post by: Ashenblaze on March 10, 2013, 08:55:27 am
No, it's a vanilla dwarf fortress temple
it's like a 30x40 large smooth stone floor with pillars scattered on top.
I encountered one in adventure mode that has a bronze colossus living on it(or at least guarding something) a few months past.
Solon64
Yeah, I figured after reading about the past posts about it.
So I just gave up and checked him out once more, didn't end well.
Post by: Putnam on March 10, 2013, 01:32:07 pm
Putnam
No, it's a vanilla dwarf fortress temple
it's like a 30x40 large smooth stone floor with pillars scattered on top.
I encountered one in adventure mode that has a bronze colossus living on it(or at least guarding something) a few months past.
Yes, a vanilla shrine. They're called shrines. Titans also tend to be in them. They appear with the same tile as figurines on the map.
Post by: greycat on March 15, 2013, 07:11:19 pm
Post by: Ashenblaze on March 16, 2013, 12:11:31 am
Does watchers and zingers show up as wild animals that wander on the map (or cavern)?
Do hunters hunt them?
(I don't know alot about modding but)
Is there a token that indicates what wild animals can be targeted for hunting so that hunters won't end up getting killed in a forest fire they started?
I think I would like to see random zingers soften up those easy sieges before they get lucky on my militia dwarfs but not injure my hunters.
Post by: Putnam on March 16, 2013, 12:13:42 am
2. If they show up in the wild, hunters hunt them.
3. There isn't one.
Post by: narhiril on March 16, 2013, 02:59:02 pm
DFHack r3 has been released. That means we should see a new LFR in the near future! (If narhiril doesn't have real-life time conflicts.) :D
Yes, it does. There are a few things I'm finishing up before I can release it, but it's not far off.
Post by: smakemupagus on March 16, 2013, 04:19:46 pm
Post by: narhiril on March 20, 2013, 04:07:13 pm
So remember that stuff about paragons being born and then dedicated? Disregard all of that, they're going back to the way they should be - the divine units of Visthel who live forever and can resurrect each other back to full health.
Post by: Remuthra on March 20, 2013, 04:10:29 pm
Post by: narhiril on March 20, 2013, 04:37:02 pm
Post by: narhiril on March 20, 2013, 07:26:24 pm
Unfortunately, yes, that means that you will have to download the whole package deal instead of just the text files, but the instructions for installing the raw-only release now that DFHack has been integrated are getting so extensive that you'd probably be saving yourself a lot of effort just by waiting out a little longer download.
More DFHack information: LFR will come with its own dfhack.init file, so if you're using your own, you'll probably need to include at least the plugin calls from the LFR file. Binary patches and a few useful tweaks are enabled by default. Of course, if you're writing your own dfhack.init files (or plugins, as the case may be), you probably could have figured that out on your own. Ritual units and mechanical constructs rely on autoSyndrome to work properly, and paragons rely on both autoSyndrome and trueTransformations. Runes rely on addSpatter.
In the future, I'd like to put together an executable with a GUI that allows you to toggle the optional components without needing to drag files around on your own, but I'm not nearly as proficient at real code as opposed to DF code, so that might be a ways down the road.
Spoiler: The official "to do" list before this release (click to show/hide)
Post by: Meph on March 20, 2013, 07:34:03 pm
About the blockfactory: Having indiviual block colors is not nearly as important as having individual furniture colors.
I am curious to see how your truetransform will work out (i havent tested it yet), and what you will come up with for itemsyndrome. :)
Post by: narhiril on March 20, 2013, 07:40:26 pm
If you need help with a GUI, I am up for it. LNP is now open source and can easily be modified. Or my own GUI, which is based on the LNPs source code as well.
About the blockfactory: Having indiviual block colors is not nearly as important as having individual furniture colors.
I am curious to see how your truetransform will work out (i havent tested it yet), and what you will come up with for itemsyndrome. :)
I've got truetransform working with paragons - I may end up applying it to other ritual units later on if the need arises. I'd also like to do some exploring with calling DFHack commands through reactions.
I haven't even touched itemsyndrome yet. That's a whole other Pandora's box that would only slow down this update. But rest assured, I've got some ideas for it. ;)
Post by: Ashenblaze on March 21, 2013, 11:24:52 pm
My Weapons Concept Laboratory just made an Iron Giant Spoon.
I know this is a weapon but does it belong under the hammer genre?
Post by: narhiril on March 22, 2013, 02:22:39 pm
Sorry to interrupt but I have to ask.
My Weapons Concept Laboratory just made an Iron Giant Spoon.
I know this is a weapon but does it belong under the hammer genre?
Yes, it's a hammer. :)
Post by: Chagen46 on March 22, 2013, 05:38:03 pm
Post by: Remuthra on March 22, 2013, 05:40:10 pm
Post by: Kamin on March 24, 2013, 12:11:01 pm
Post by: narhiril on March 27, 2013, 02:12:48 pm
EDIT: Ok, maybe one more day... sorry guys.
Post by: ArchAIngel on March 30, 2013, 06:19:53 pm
Post by: Pan on March 31, 2013, 02:57:32 pm
Post by: narhiril on April 01, 2013, 03:24:56 pm
:) Take your sweet time, Narhiril.
Finishing up the documentation for the runesmith's workshop. Sorry about the delay this weekend, something came up. Expect a release later tonight.
I've been struggling with exactly where to put this workshop for some time now, so it may move around on the advancement trees later on depending on how dramatically it affects gameplay. Right now, it requires precision tools (t1 tech) and a ceremonial urn (t1 ritual), in addition to some other common building materials. I strongly recommend using stockpile links to engrave the items you want engraved. Note that despite my best efforts, the runesmith's workshop has not been terribly well tested, so please go play with it later and let me know what you think.
Post by: narhiril on April 01, 2013, 05:44:04 pm
As this one's got a lot of new, complicated features in it, I expect some issues to come up. Please report any that you find so that I can get them fixed as quickly as possible.
Post by: greycat on April 01, 2013, 08:33:21 pm
Good news: :D
- I got it to run on Linux. I was a bit apprehensive about that because the DFhack stuff is entirely new to me, and I didn't know how hard it was going to be. Details below, in case there are others who want to know how.
Bad news:
- The download aborted at 6.8 MB the first time -- no idea why. It downloaded fully the second time.
- No ASCII! :-X
- The capitalization of the LFR_additional_creatures.png file is wrong -- I had to rename it to lfr_additional_creatures.png (non-issue on Windows because the FAT and NTFS file systems automatically translate capital to lowercase or vice versa).
- The reaction_foundry_kipi.txt (and building_foundry_kipi.txt) files are still present, meaning most of the stones get marked as "economic". And I didn't realize this until I'd already world-genned and embarked.
Steps to get it running on Linux (subject to change if I encounter any future issues):
- Install p7zip or some equivalent program to extract a .7z archive.
- Download the LFR .7z archive, the Dwarf Fortress Linux .bz2 archive, and the DFhack .gz archive.
- Extract the LFR .7z archive somewhere.
- Make another directory where you'll actually play the game. I like this to be separate from the extracted archive, because the playing directory will have a big mess of files from three different places all lumped together, plus edited data files, and saves. The extracted LFR archive, with the Manual and stuff, can be kept pristine.
- Copy the contents of the "LFR v0.20a Ironhand Graphics Edition" subdirectory (from the LFR .7z archive) into the play directory. (I use "cp -a" for this.)
- Extract the Linux Dwarf Fortress archive (df_34_11_linux.tar.bz2) inside the play directory. This extracts into a "df_linux" subdirectory. Go into there, and move "df" and "libs" up into the play directory.
- Extract the DFhack archive (dfhack-0.34.11-r3-Linux.tar.gz) inside the play directory.
- Rename the raw/graphics/spoiler_lfr/LFR_additional_creatures.png file so that it's all lower-case.
- Consider removing the raw/objects/*foundry* files, if you wish.
- Edit the data/init/*init.txt files to suit your own preferences.
- Run ./dfhack
Post by: Palpatine on April 01, 2013, 09:14:12 pm
When future bug fixes come out, will we probably be able to keep using a 20.a save, or will we probably need to gen a whole new world for 20.b?
Post by: narhiril on April 01, 2013, 11:23:03 pm
Bad news:
- The download aborted at 6.8 MB the first time -- no idea why. It downloaded fully the second time.
- No ASCII! :-X
- The capitalization of the LFR_additional_creatures.png file is wrong -- I had to rename it to lfr_additional_creatures.png (non-issue on Windows because the FAT and NTFS file systems automatically translate capital to lowercase or vice versa).
- The reaction_foundry_kipi.txt (and building_foundry_kipi.txt) files are still present, meaning most of the stones get marked as "economic". And I didn't realize this until I'd already world-genned and embarked.
I moved the ASCII raws into the optional components folder, because I know some people get more enjoyment from playing in ASCII. You'll have to move a few files around and edit the init files, but it should be playable in ASCII. If there's demand for a pre-installed ASCII version, I'm open to getting one started. It would only take me a little while to get a second download listing up and running.
Yay, glad to see a new version of LFR! :D
When future bug fixes come out, will we probably be able to keep using a 20.a save, or will we probably need to gen a whole new world for 20.b?
I really won't know until the issues actually come up. Certain things can be changed without requiring a new world, but some can't,
Post by: greycat on April 02, 2013, 03:51:20 pm
Yeah, ASCIIfication was simple enough -- just copy the files from one place to another. I removed the foundry files after that, and regenned the world.
The new world seems to have aquifers everywhere, so I chose a spot and dug through the aquifer. Tedious, but I've done it before....
In the summer, some migrants arrived. Two of them are ten years old and married to each other. Did you lower the age of maturity from the standard 12 years?
Post by: greycat on April 03, 2013, 05:56:56 pm
-prickle berry wine Barrel (chestnut) <#1>-
Weight: 24 Basic Value: 20
Contents:
prickle berry wine [4]
dwarven wine [5]
Post by: Putnam on April 03, 2013, 05:58:13 pm
I just noticed a mixture of two different boozes in the same barrel:
-prickle berry wine Barrel (chestnut) <#1>-
Weight: 24 Basic Value: 20
Contents:
prickle berry wine [4]
dwarven wine [5]
Okay? This really doesn't have much to do with the mod...
Post by: Pan on April 03, 2013, 10:30:53 pm
Anyway, Narhiril, really excited for this new release. Is the dfhack and all that compatible with a mac, though? :-\ Usually I download a mac DF and then move all LFR files over. But this time, would the df hack be able to open up or however that works? I'm gonna go test it now.
And while we're at it, Narhiril, how about you discuss your plans for the future? I always love to hear talks about what you're gonna do, what you planned to do, and what not.
Post by: Remuthra on April 03, 2013, 10:32:14 pm
Post by: Pan on April 04, 2013, 12:03:43 am
Post by: Putnam on April 04, 2013, 12:06:59 am
Post by: narhiril on April 04, 2013, 07:44:10 am
A separate pre-installed ASCII download seems like overkill, unless there are a bunch of other players who want it. Please don't feel any obligation to spend time on that just for me. I'll take a look at the optional components folder and see if I can figure it out.
Yeah, ASCIIfication was simple enough -- just copy the files from one place to another. I removed the foundry files after that, and regenned the world.
The new world seems to have aquifers everywhere, so I chose a spot and dug through the aquifer. Tedious, but I've done it before....
In the summer, some migrants arrived. Two of them are ten years old and married to each other. Did you lower the age of maturity from the standard 12 years?
Yes, I did. This was done to compensate for the increased difficulty in replacing lost military forces, due to migrants having to run a potential gauntlet of ambushes to get to your fortress. If it bothers you, you're free to change it back in creature_standard.
Yeah, download it separately. It should work, unless narhiril has included anything extra.
I haven't. :)
Just make sure the contents of hack/raw make it into the corresponding folder of the new version you're downloading, otherwise runes won't work properly.
Post by: DwarfOfTheLand on April 05, 2013, 04:19:55 pm
Post by: Pan on April 07, 2013, 12:59:27 pm
Post by: SalmonGod on April 07, 2013, 02:23:45 pm
Sentinel drones are killing everything in the caverns! More in depth stuff afterwards when I'm less busy.
I'm dealing with this right now as well. I haven't set up my full military yet, only selected a commander. This required an immediate response, so I sent him down there. The guy spends a week drinking, another week gathering up his equipment, and then goes down to the fight. He gets within a few steps of the drone, then turns back around because he needs sleep. Bastard.
Update: My god. I have like a dozen soldiers piled onto this thing right now, and they can't penetrate its armor. I would think the steel battle axe and tungsten maul would at least be able to, but neither of them have had any success either. At least these soldiers are getting some amazing training out of this. It can't penetrate their armor either. So it's like the best sparring ever.
Post by: Pan on April 07, 2013, 10:18:27 pm
Post by: narhiril on April 08, 2013, 01:56:38 am
Yep, that was what I was gonna say. Crude javelin bolts shred them like paper, though, a testament to the overpoweredness of ranged weaponry these days :-\
Javelins were supposed to be that powerful because the ammo is extremely expensive to produce. Crude javelins were supposed to be for training - they were not supposed to be very effective combat weapons. I'll be looking at them closer tomorrow and making adjustments as necessary. Severely crippling the velocity modifier might be what I need to do there. Thanks for the reports, guys.
Post by: SalmonGod on April 08, 2013, 10:09:10 am
Yep, that was what I was gonna say. Crude javelin bolts shred them like paper, though, a testament to the overpoweredness of ranged weaponry these days :-\
Mine was eliminated by a single copper bolt. But only after it killed a bunch of people.
Edit:
My fort's latest artifact. I was hoping for something exotic, but the guy put a lot of work into this and I certainly won't complain about a great axe... but is cobalt a good weapons material? There's no information on it without digging into the raws.
Spoiler: Purpletamed (click to show/hide)
Post by: Pan on April 09, 2013, 12:50:01 pm
These sentinel drones are indestructible to melee, it seems. Good for training, aye :) Not so good for immersion :(
And darn it, DF Hack doesn't run on my mac. Anyone knows how to get around that? :(
Weird thing recently. All migrants have no stats for physical ability. Anyone else get that, or did I do it myself unknowingly through messing with a younger un-updated version of DTherapist or something?
Post by: greycat on April 09, 2013, 06:14:35 pm
And darn it, DF Hack doesn't run on my mac. Anyone knows how to get around that? :(
I'd look in the DFHack thread first. It could be an incompatibility with whatever version of Mac OS you're using, or it could be that you've installed it wrong. I only know Linux.
Post by: Jilladilla on April 09, 2013, 07:51:58 pm
My fort's latest artifact. I was hoping for something exotic, but the guy put a lot of work into this and I certainly won't complain about a great axe... but is cobalt a good weapons material? There's no information on it without digging into the raws.Spoiler: Purpletamed (click to show/hide)
Cobalt is very nearly equal to Iron. Almost. The numbers are ridiculously similar.
Post by: SalmonGod on April 09, 2013, 09:04:31 pm
My fort's latest artifact. I was hoping for something exotic, but the guy put a lot of work into this and I certainly won't complain about a great axe... but is cobalt a good weapons material? There's no information on it without digging into the raws.Spoiler: Purpletamed (click to show/hide)
Cobalt is very nearly equal to Iron. Almost. The numbers are ridiculously similar.
A shame. Looks like this fine piece of work will be going on display. I've started plundering damascus steel and voidshard and turning it into exotic weapons. I'd much rather my soldiers use that stuff. Speaking of exotic weapons...
Spoiler: slight hidden feature spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Putnam on April 09, 2013, 11:00:50 pm
Post by: narhiril on April 10, 2013, 01:12:01 am
I'm gonna guess no. :-\
These sentinel drones are indestructible to melee, it seems. Good for training, aye :) Not so good for immersion :(
I'll look into it. Remember that you're fighting one of the Vanguard's most advanced weapons - they're supposed to be extremely difficult enemies, but I admittedly haven't tested them very extensively.
Post by: SalmonGod on April 10, 2013, 01:22:17 am
I'm gonna guess no. :-\
These sentinel drones are indestructible to melee, it seems. Good for training, aye :) Not so good for immersion :(
I'll look into it. Remember that you're fighting one of the Vanguard's most advanced weapons - they're supposed to be extremely difficult enemies, but I admittedly haven't tested them very extensively.
I don't think that's a problem. What I'm running into is in the first 3 years of my game, I've already seen a couple dozen of them on the first cavern level.
And while they're indestructible, they're not really dangerous either. They were completely incapable of harming my soldiers in bronze armor. The dwarves they did kill were unarmored or dodged off a cliff.
Until one of my markswarves who actually bothered to grab some ammo came and dispatched it with a single copper bolt.
I watched another one fight a forgotten beast for like an entire year. They just couldn't harm each other.
Post by: narhiril on April 10, 2013, 01:51:06 am
I'm gonna guess no. :-\
These sentinel drones are indestructible to melee, it seems. Good for training, aye :) Not so good for immersion :(
I'll look into it. Remember that you're fighting one of the Vanguard's most advanced weapons - they're supposed to be extremely difficult enemies, but I admittedly haven't tested them very extensively.
I don't think that's a problem. What I'm running into is in the first 3 years of my game, I've already seen a couple dozen of them on the first cavern level.
And while they're indestructible, they're not really dangerous either. They were completely incapable of harming my soldiers in bronze armor. The dwarves they did kill were unarmored or dodged off a cliff.
Until one of my markswarves who actually bothered to grab some ammo came and dispatched it with a single copper bolt.
I watched another one fight a forgotten beast for like an entire year. They just couldn't harm each other.
They're definitely not supposed to be that common. Thanks for the report.
Post by: greycat on April 10, 2013, 05:53:49 pm
The new world seems to have aquifers everywhere, so I chose a spot and dug through the aquifer. Tedious, but I've done it before....
And a few years later, I was trying to dig a secondary stairwell upward from the hospital & wells, to the upper work areas. I truly believed the upper areas were 1-2 levels below the aquifer.
Turns out I was wrong. The aquifer extended down an extra couple levels in some spots.
The secondary stairwell happened to be one of those spots.
Right now I'm trying to pump out the area and wall off the stairwell, but it's not going very well. I've got at least 5 dwarves drowned.
(This has nothing to do with the mod, other than the fact that the fortress is being played under it. The same watery FUN would have occurred in vanilla.)
-------
All right, it looks like I've managed to wall off all aquifer egress areas. The worst, of course, was the hallway by the secondary stairwell near the hospital & wells. The hospital included a small stockpile of Visthel's embrace (soap) which was used as building material for the walls on that level. Other points were plugged by constructing walls out of whatever stones were lying nearby, or out of random stone blocks if no stones were close enough.
The final death toll appears to be: 3 dwarves drowned in the hospital, 2 dwarves drowned after being swept down wells by flowing water, and 1 dwarf drowned after failing to complete a wall in time, and then being trapped on the wrong side of the walls that were completed, a bit farther away.
Post by: greycat on April 14, 2013, 08:26:59 am
* I think every immigrant so far has been an adult (by LFR standards). I don't recall seeing any families with small children or babies. Could just be luck, I suppose....
* Every immigrant so far has arrived with Armor User, Dodging, and some sort of weapon skill. Apparently it's a violent world out there.
* Every immigrant so far has arrived with some sort of civilian skill. I haven't seen a peasant yet.
* I had some dwarves suffer a strange rotting syndrome, and I don't yet know what caused it. It didn't seem to spread -- it was just a small number of dwarves. Possible causes: I've been besieged by the walking dead twice, and the first group managed to come into contact with my dwarves. I've been besieged by the shedim several times. (Also goblins, but I don't think they're disease carriers per se.) I've done a bunch of alchemy experiments (though not so many in recent months/years, now that I've got all the experiment results). I've pierced cavern layers to release spores. I have large areas of underground soil where cavern-spore plants grow freely, and my herbalists gather them. Also quite a bit of underground mud thanks to some accidental flooding....
* I generated this world with minerals set just one notch above default, rather than maximum. This fortress in particular does not appear to contain any iron ores. But that merely delays my steel industry! I've set up a couple Shrines of Victory, and my priests and priestesses pray for iron ore continually.
* In fact, LFR allows one to bootstrap a metal industry in any fortress. Set up an alchemist workshop and perform experiments on rocks to generate silver and gold. Use the silver to build a Shrine of Victory to generate iron. Use the gold to build a Shrine of Prosperity to generate economic alloys and flux (consuming more gold). Chop trees and char them, and now you've got steel. After getting orichalcum somehow, and the treatise on gasoline, use some iron to make torchbearer gargoyles and set up a Temple of Fire to produce flux without needing to consume gold. WINNING!
Post by: SanDiego on April 15, 2013, 06:03:33 am
Post by: javierpwn on April 15, 2013, 08:33:54 am
Still hating on the foundry though, having to manually enable every useless stone for normal use.
Still loving sacrifices though.
Post by: greycat on April 15, 2013, 02:18:21 pm
Post by: Palpatine on April 16, 2013, 04:57:27 pm
Post by: Putnam on April 16, 2013, 09:55:45 pm
I can't build a Machine Shop, because it keeps requiring rock chains, instead of metal ones.
There is literally no difference whatsoever. "Rock chains" is just what DF calls metal chains.
Post by: Palpatine on April 17, 2013, 01:45:56 am
I can't build a Machine Shop, because it keeps requiring rock chains, instead of metal ones.
There is literally no difference whatsoever. "Rock chains" is just what DF calls metal chains.
Ok, thanks.
Post by: lukstra on April 19, 2013, 01:17:27 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Remuthra on April 19, 2013, 05:09:26 am
Post by: narhiril on April 19, 2013, 06:32:17 am
Isn't Kexel that secret god in the manual?
Something like that. ;)
Post by: lukstra on April 19, 2013, 02:40:14 pm
What are the advantages or disadvantages of the various upgraded weapons: javelin thrower vs advanced dart launcher vs spring mechanized crossbow?
I am trying to decide what I should arm my ranged squad with.
Post by: SalmonGod on April 19, 2013, 07:18:41 pm
One serious problem I'm noticing is ranged units seem to have major balance issues. My ranged squad is equipped with javelin throwers, and only piercing javelins are capable of doing anything. Every enemy civ I've faced has been some kind of "large" creature, and even plain cloth "large" garments can consistently deflect tungsten hammerhead javelins or steel broadheads.
Post by: Imp on April 19, 2013, 07:49:57 pm
I think it might be time to select a new mayor... Who is Kexel, by the way?Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I kinda think that's neat.
Especially if it could function as a 'way of going to talk to that deity'.
Imagine that, your mayor really does 'have the ear of god' at least on occasion, just by opening a very special door from within his chambers....
Post by: Palpatine on April 19, 2013, 07:59:21 pm
Post by: Remuthra on April 19, 2013, 08:03:17 pm
I don't think it's intended, but it fits pretty well.
Post by: Putnam on April 19, 2013, 08:21:02 pm
I think it might be time to select a new mayor... Who is Kexel, by the way?Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I kinda think that's neat.
Especially if it could function as a 'way of going to talk to that deity'.
Imagine that, your mayor really does 'have the ear of god' at least on occasion, just by opening a very special door from within his chambers....
Spoiler: Actual LFR spoiler (I think?) about the Kexel's stuff (click to show/hide)
Post by: greycat on April 19, 2013, 09:24:39 pm
Post by: SanDiego on April 20, 2013, 01:01:55 pm
(http://i398.photobucket.com/albums/pp70/Salisaad/Dwarven%20Fortress/DFerror_zps9c17986b.jpg) (http://s398.photobucket.com/user/Salisaad/media/Dwarven%20Fortress/DFerror_zps9c17986b.jpg.html)
So, is there some crucial step I missed in the process, or it's a feature of uninstalling tilesets? (yes, I have little to none experience with tilesets).
Post by: Putnam on April 20, 2013, 01:14:41 pm
Post by: greycat on April 20, 2013, 05:39:12 pm
Post by: narhiril on April 20, 2013, 09:55:19 pm
Is it intentional that smelting mithril and iovium ores only yields 1 bar, instead of 4 bars?
No, this hasn't been reconciled to work with the new system. I'll have it fixed for the next version.
All right. Now, I officially give up. I have edited graphics out of my init.txt, I have dropped the alternative raws folder where it belongs, I even tried to delete the entire graphics folder. Yet no matter what I try, I get this:
*SNIP*
So, is there some crucial step I missed in the process, or it's a feature of uninstalling tilesets? (yes, I have little to none experience with tilesets).
I'll be working on getting an ASCII release done this week. I think the LFR ASCII raws are fine, but it looks like there are some Ironhand vanilla raws still in there, which is what's causing that issue. I'll be doing a full install of LFR on a clean copy of DF (no gfx) for the ASCII download, and this should fix that problem. Sorry for the delay.
Post by: Meph on April 21, 2013, 07:22:43 am
Post by: lukstra on April 22, 2013, 02:43:01 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Imp on April 22, 2013, 04:10:32 am
A question about a strange mood armor:Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Gosh, how would that even be worn? Like a backpack? That almost sounds like some sort of ammo for a special type of projectile weapon!
Post by: narhiril on April 22, 2013, 07:20:53 am
A question about a strange mood armor:Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Gosh, how would that even be worn? Like a backpack? That almost sounds like some sort of ammo for a special type of projectile weapon!
The idea is that it's worn like a backpack and projects a protective field around the wearer. Due to technical limitations, it really only covers the chest area, but it can be worn over any other armor.
So... arent all your reactions in reaction_brew_lfr overflowing when you use a barrel and 4-5 plants? I had a problem with this in my mod, had to change the reactions to take either only pots or 2 barrels... Check your workshop, my guess is that 20-25 units of drink are created outside of the barrel, and remain untouchable in the workshop. You can clean it by deconstruction, but no one can drink it.
To my knowledge, I haven't seen this before. I'll have to double check to see if its working properly.
Post by: Palpatine on April 22, 2013, 09:39:29 pm
And for a modest surprise about the Shedim, read the spoiler.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: narhiril on May 01, 2013, 02:52:49 pm
All right. Now, I officially give up. I have edited graphics out of my init.txt, I have dropped the alternative raws folder where it belongs, I even tried to delete the entire graphics folder. Yet no matter what I try, I get this:
*SNIP*
So, is there some crucial step I missed in the process, or it's a feature of uninstalling tilesets? (yes, I have little to none experience with tilesets).
Just gonna drop this here (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=7620)...
Please let me know if you run into any issues.
Post by: greycat on May 03, 2013, 07:33:51 pm
Or... at least, it's present in my fortress's raw directory, and in the extracted Ironhand directory. I seem to have misplaced the original Ironhand 0.20a archive. Anyway, copying that into my data/save/region1/raw/objects/ directory made it work. And it looks much nicer now. :)
Post by: SanDiego on May 04, 2013, 11:54:32 am
Praise be!All right. Now, I officially give up. I have edited graphics out of my init.txt, I have dropped the alternative raws folder where it belongs, I even tried to delete the entire graphics folder. Yet no matter what I try, I get this:
*SNIP*
So, is there some crucial step I missed in the process, or it's a feature of uninstalling tilesets? (yes, I have little to none experience with tilesets).
Just gonna drop this here (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=7620)...
Please let me know if you run into any issues.
Post by: narhiril on May 04, 2013, 12:33:47 pm
The file item_armor_lfr_simple.txt is present in Ironhand but not in ASCII.
Or... at least, it's present in my fortress's raw directory, and in the extracted Ironhand directory. I seem to have misplaced the original Ironhand 0.20a archive. Anyway, copying that into my data/save/region1/raw/objects/ directory made it work. And it looks much nicer now. :)
Looks like I forgot to package the optional components with that one. I spent so much time on the art that I forgot to include all of the essentials... Derp. Fixing it now.
EDIT: Fixed. New downloads will now include the optional components and manual files as intended.
Post by: Ashenblaze on May 07, 2013, 04:59:19 am
If you do, here's mine.
Make a wall trap where you can choose what direction it pushes
eg.
+ = Floor v = Pressure plate
. = empty space
ll = normal wall T = Trap wall
++++ v
. . . . +ll
. . . . +T
. . . . +T
. . . . +T
(sorry in advance because I dont know anything about modding so, I dont know if you can do this)
Post by: sackhead on May 08, 2013, 01:46:08 am
unfortunately moving blocks are impossible
Post by: Ashenblaze on May 08, 2013, 11:22:19 am
that pushes objects and or living things to a direction.
In the example in my previous post, let's move the traps 1 tile more inside the wall.
Walls= []
++++ v
. . . . +[][][] (just changed the walls so it's easier to understand...somewhat)
. . . . ++T[]]
. . . . v[][][]
. . . . ++T[]]
. . . . v[][][]
The traps (assuming its the air generating one) are now positioned to direct the air to the left.
The traps should have a pause between each push and does not tolerate citizens.
The push should be strong enough to push goblins away but weak enough that it cant push big things like minotaurs.
Post by: greycat on May 08, 2013, 01:58:07 pm
For your design, I would think that pumping a bunch of water would be a reasonable approach:
Code: [Select]
########
+++++++###
......+ <- water <-
......+###
......+ <- water <-
......+###
######+#
Post by: Putnam on May 08, 2013, 02:40:29 pm
Post by: SanDiego on May 09, 2013, 06:51:40 am
I don't know modding very well, but in vanilla there's definitely no way to cause a creature to move in a desired direction with any kind of predictability. You can approximate it, though -- retract a retracting bridge, and the creature will move downward (maybe). Introduce flowing water, and the creature may move in the direction the water is flowing. None of these are 100% reliable.Well, the only way to get someone moving against his will in certain direction is bridge-a-pult (at lest as far as I know).
For your design, I would think that pumping a bunch of water would be a reasonable approach:Code: [Select]########
+++++++###
......+ <- water <-
......+###
......+ <- water <-
......+###
######+#
Post by: reemer30 on May 10, 2013, 10:55:16 pm
Post by: narhiril on May 11, 2013, 11:26:43 pm
Hi, I have been working on some random little mods, and I created a fire mage, which after downloading this mod and looking through raws I saw it is very similar to the ember-light dwarf in this mod. I was unable to keep them from lighting the grass ablaze and quickly dying in the inferno. I was wondering if the dwarves here do the same thing and, if not, how you manage to keep them from killing themselves. Thanks in advance!
They're completely and totally immune to fire because all of their body materials have had their properties tweaked to make it so. In short, it doesn't matter what they light on fire because they can't die or be hurt from fire. Bear in mind that this doesn't apply to other dwarves, though. ;)
Post by: greycat on May 15, 2013, 08:33:54 pm
Quote
Prayer for Lemox' favor - no reagents, produces symbols of Kerox' favor (occasionally).
Prayer for Kerox' favor - no reagents, produces symbols of Lemox' favor (occasionally).
I think these descriptions got switched.
Post by: narhiril on May 17, 2013, 11:56:22 am
In lfr_ritual_reference.txt:QuotePrayer for Lemox' favor - no reagents, produces symbols of Kerox' favor (occasionally).
Prayer for Kerox' favor - no reagents, produces symbols of Lemox' favor (occasionally).
I think these descriptions got switched.
They did. Nice catch.
Post by: ArchAIngel on May 23, 2013, 06:21:23 pm
Post by: ArchAIngel on May 28, 2013, 07:46:54 pm
Post by: Meph on May 29, 2013, 11:24:45 am
Post by: narhiril on June 11, 2013, 03:03:42 am
Post by: ArchAIngel on June 11, 2013, 08:20:17 am
Post by: Pan on June 11, 2013, 11:21:15 pm
Post by: simonthedwarf on June 12, 2013, 11:48:58 am
Post by: narhiril on June 12, 2013, 01:43:17 pm
Well, Narhiril, since you've been gone awhile, how about a big post discussing what you intend to do now? What's up for the next release? Are you going to be fixing bugs? (theres some quirkiness here and there, like damascus drone hosts being too common and all that)
There's not a whole lot to fix for this next release, which is a good thing because it means I can start building some new stuff. Drone hosts are definitely the big issue that will be fixed, but the rest is mostly minor stuff. The next release will include banana trees (farmable fruit + wood) and the hydroponics chamber, which will allow you to grow plants of any kind at any time by simulating the conditions they need for growing, using heat lamps (probably lustrum powered), potash, and seeds (water won't be required because dwarves only fill buckets on their own whims and it would probably generate a lot of spam). This will allow you to effectively farm anywhere deep underground, but you'll need a steady supply of potash to keep it going and the yield per hydroponics chamber will not be as high as farm plots of the same size. Still, this can be extremely useful in harsh climates. I'll also continue to expand on mechanical construct research and development.
Depending on how smoothly that all goes, I may even get around to finishing another ritual unit for the Temple of Origin for this release.
still no new version ?
Sorry about the wait, I've just been so busy! I landed an internship for the summer, which is cutting down on my free time substantially, but I'm starting to get into a good groove here where I can get some more LFR done.
Post by: Remuthra on June 12, 2013, 03:34:01 pm
Post by: Pan on June 12, 2013, 11:18:48 pm
I landed an internship for the summer
Gratz. :)
Post by: Pan on June 13, 2013, 12:09:34 pm
Have you thought about making changes to existing races? You know, for story based purposes and stuff to their culture? Just thought you have a very interesting plethora of races here you could work with, like the void walkers and the shedim and especially the vanguard. And even the moroii. Which reminds me, any plans on cavern invaders?
And why bananas? :P I personally hate that mushy, gooey and dry thing, and the chips they make out of it is so bad. Blah. Hate bananas. Unless it's sliced and on pancakes. :) (yeah, Pan likes pancakes. Har har har.)
Post by: SanDiego on June 14, 2013, 08:57:47 am
Post by: Remuthra on June 14, 2013, 09:01:04 am
Post by: SalmonGod on June 14, 2013, 09:14:28 am
Post by: Remuthra on June 14, 2013, 09:15:42 am
Post by: greycat on June 14, 2013, 09:54:05 pm
They're only engaging in psychological warfare -- putting on a show of pointless carnage to unsettle the dwarves with their brutality and fearlessness.
If they think that's going to bother the dwarves, then they haven't met any dwarves.
Post by: Pan on June 15, 2013, 01:39:40 pm
Post by: Remuthra on June 15, 2013, 01:40:52 pm
Post by: narhiril on June 17, 2013, 01:00:43 am
Also, everyone dies to wooden bolts, even damascus sentinels. I don't suppose you would consider fixing archery OPness, or including the Broken Arrow mini mod into this?
Have you thought about making changes to existing races? You know, for story based purposes and stuff to their culture? Just thought you have a very interesting plethora of races here you could work with, like the void walkers and the shedim and especially the vanguard. And even the moroii. Which reminds me, any plans on cavern invaders?
And why bananas? :P I personally hate that mushy, gooey and dry thing, and the chips they make out of it is so bad. Blah. Hate bananas. Unless it's sliced and on pancakes. :) (yeah, Pan likes pancakes. Har har har.)
I'll definitely be taking a look at that Broken Arrow mini-mod to see how the changes made affect things. Cavern invaders I'm still tossing around some ideas for.
And I'm making bananas because people seemed to like voting for that in the poll I put up. XD
Post by: ArchAIngel on June 23, 2013, 12:08:02 pm
Post by: narhiril on June 24, 2013, 02:09:43 am
Ermh, a small request. Could you add in halberds that dwarves can make? I like halberds.
I think that could be arranged. ;)
Aiming for a release by this weekend.
Post by: Pan on June 26, 2013, 01:06:39 am
Post by: SanDiego on June 26, 2013, 09:02:33 am
Post by: narhiril on June 26, 2013, 12:56:19 pm
Nice. What's the release about?
Hydroponics, banana trees (farmable wood + food), some bugfixes and balance tweaks - notably, substantially decreasing the amount of damascus sentinel drone hosts and an overhaul to archery.
Post by: SanDiego on June 26, 2013, 01:11:05 pm
Post by: Thuellai on June 28, 2013, 02:44:50 am
It's a shame I've already tweaked so much of my own raws or I'd be all over this.
...Maybe in a separate release folder... I'll have to redo a lot of my tweaks but it might just be worth it.
Post by: Pan on June 28, 2013, 06:15:57 am
Post by: Thuellai on June 28, 2013, 07:12:02 am
Post by: narhiril on June 29, 2013, 08:07:45 pm
Post by: Thuellai on June 29, 2013, 09:38:50 pm
Post by: Pan on July 01, 2013, 02:15:46 am
Post by: Putnam on July 01, 2013, 03:59:00 am
^ What he said. What's PRIDE, though? ???
http://pridestl.org/
Post by: narhiril on July 01, 2013, 12:56:37 pm
^ What he said. What's PRIDE, though? ???
http://pridestl.org/
Thank you :)
Banana trees are done - basically, they'll be a farmable above-ground plant that grows in the tropics and jungles. Your farmers or gatherers will return them as a "felled banana tree," which will get turned into a fruit (edible), a log, and seeds via an automatic reaction at the quern (I'd use the farmer's workshop, but I don't know if that can be modified yet). I'm working now on the archery tweaks component.
The hydroponics component, which I've decided to rename the "greenhouse," is turning out to be a bit of a headache from a balancing standpoint simply because there's no way for me to simulate a growth cycle via a reaction. Unfortunately, that means I may have to push it back to a later update. Being just a minor update after a major one (.20a), I'd like to try to get the platform as stable as possible before I build it any higher.
So, basically, the highlights of this update:
-Added banana trees (farmable wood)
-Damascus Sentinel Drone Hosts won't show up and obliterate everything in the caverns nearly as often.
-Crossbows, blowguns, and bows are no longer railguns.
-Javelins, upgraded crossbows and dart launchers have been scaled back. Void energy projectors have not. You've been warned.
-Cannon beetles will appear more frequently
-By request, dwarves can now craft halberds. ;)
-Shedim will now siege from the caverns as well as from the surface.
The last change is just to spice things up a bit while I design a new cavern race. Expect some news on that in the coming days. :)
I think it might be time to select a new mayor... Who is Kexel, by the way?Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I kinda think that's neat.
Especially if it could function as a 'way of going to talk to that deity'.
Imagine that, your mayor really does 'have the ear of god' at least on occasion, just by opening a very special door from within his chambers....Spoiler: Actual LFR spoiler (I think?) about the Kexel's stuff (click to show/hide)
LFR leaves a lot of questions unanswered intentionally. All I can say at this time is that I do have plans for answering them, when the time is right. I'm actually in the early stages of writing a sort of "pre-history" mod set in the LFR universe where you play as the Voidwalkers, looking into the evolution of their extremely paranoid society, the fall of the Incubi, and the origin of the Shedim and greater demons. In case you've been wondering just what the hell I've been doing with myself all this time. ^_^
Post by: Pan on July 01, 2013, 03:33:14 pm
1. How powerful are halberds?
2. Will cavern shedims be a seperate race? And any hints on the actual cavern race soon? :P
3. If you're working on that backstory lore mod, are you gonna concentrate on LFR as it is as well? I personally prefer playing dwarves and letting the voidwalkers have an air of mystery as they are.
Post by: narhiril on July 01, 2013, 05:31:54 pm
Man, that sounds swell. I have some questions, as usual, if that's alright :)
1. How powerful are halberds?
2. Will cavern shedims be a seperate race? And any hints on the actual cavern race soon? :P
3. If you're working on that backstory lore mod, are you gonna concentrate on LFR as it is as well? I personally prefer playing dwarves and letting the voidwalkers have an air of mystery as they are.
Don't worry, that idea by no means signifies any sort of break from LFR. It's still in the very early planning stages. Also, halberds are already in-game, just not on the dwarven permissions list - they're similar in strength and function to great axes.
As for the cavern race, right now it will just be the Shedim, identical to their surface counterparts, but I've been tossing around some concepts for subterranean civilizations. Obviously I've already got the Moroii down there, but they're not organized enough to be mounting sieges on you (and don't really have the motive for that, either).
I've been trying to think of a life form underground on which to base them without too much similarity to any of the other races. I'd like them to use some pretty good weaponry, too, so that you can't just let the forgotten beasts take care of them for you. Blind wouldn't be effective against them, either, since they live in darkness. Lore-wise, I've got a vision for them pretty nailed down. They'll be a sophisticated enough society to field their own armies and arm their own troops, but they aren't interested in the surface world and a language barrier prevents them from effectively negotiating with anyone else. Really, the only reason they're fighting you is because you're strip-mining their foraging grounds and killing off their wildlife. I like putting them in a sort of morally ambiguous position, where you could almost sympathize with them if they weren't hell-bent on killing you. I feel like there's a lot more to it than "here's some enemy, go kill it."
However, I'm still missing a name and a physical form for them. Originally I had considered mole people, but I'm afraid of them turning out too similar to the Dredge from Guild Wars. Likewise, a serpentine race would also be fun to do, but I'm afraid of too much similarity to the lizardmen.
One of the somewhat ridiculous ideas I had was to call them "The Grum" and just replace every word in their language file with "grum," but I'm afraid of that becoming more irritating than amusing. It would fit with their lore, though.
Post by: narhiril on July 03, 2013, 12:54:28 pm
Post by: Pan on July 04, 2013, 02:31:33 am
Post by: narhiril on July 05, 2013, 12:59:15 pm
On a more relevant note, I have today off, so I'm just finishing up the shedim cavern entity and packaging everything today. Hopefully I can push this in a few hours and then maybe get started on some concept art for the new cavern race.
I'm going to go ahead and lock down the poll in preparation for a new one. This one kind of surprised me. I didn't expect so many people to actually like the foundry and want it to stick around, and I recognize the inconvenient issue with economic stones that it causes is probably the main reason people dislike it. I can think of a way to fix this involving reaction classes, but it involves messing around with some more stock raws which reduces compatibility with other mods - I'm going to have to do a cost-benefit analysis on that before I officially include it. Maybe it would make a good optional component.
Post by: narhiril on July 05, 2013, 11:39:16 pm
As usual, report any bugs or issues here.
Post by: Thuellai on July 06, 2013, 07:17:41 am
Post by: greycat on July 06, 2013, 12:26:00 pm
Post by: astianax on July 06, 2013, 02:07:18 pm
on a side note, seems like toady's working on stealing your thunder with the bananas whenever his next update gets released. but still, yay for nar's updates. and you really shouldn't feel bad about taking time for any rl things that pop up, ya know. rl is important, esp work and your health. so, don't worry when people around here start seeming impatient. they'll wait, just like the rest of us
Post by: narhiril on July 06, 2013, 04:37:03 pm
yup, you've got people over here rooting for ya! even if we're mostly silent most of the time
on a side note, seems like toady's working on stealing your thunder with the bananas whenever his next update gets released. but still, yay for nar's updates. and you really shouldn't feel bad about taking time for any rl things that pop up, ya know. rl is important, esp work and your health. so, don't worry when people around here start seeming impatient. they'll wait, just like the rest of us
If Toady decides to do bananas, then I'll change them to... I don't know, plantains or something. The point was to have farmable wood. ;)
Post by: Thuellai on July 06, 2013, 09:20:49 pm
I was kind of shocked to see 38 migrants show up one year, but it became totally worth it when I noticed a child blinking...
He's a legendary weaponsmith savant. He's only 3, so doubtlessly it'll rust by the time he matures, and by then I may have other legendary weaponsmiths, but still. I'm assigning him a war animal. I will not have a child prodigy abducted by goblins or whatever.
Post by: Jilladilla on July 06, 2013, 09:54:54 pm
Well, so far so good.
I was kind of shocked to see 38 migrants show up one year, but it became totally worth it when I noticed a child blinking...
He's a legendary weaponsmith savant. He's only 3, so doubtlessly it'll rust by the time he matures, and by then I may have other legendary weaponsmiths, but still. I'm assigning him a war animal. I will not have a child prodigy abducted by goblins or whatever.
I THINK child prodigies will still perform whatever labor they're good at, even if you don't want them to..... Congrats on that legendary 3 year old weaponsmith though!
Post by: Thuellai on July 06, 2013, 10:16:35 pm
Well, so far so good.
I was kind of shocked to see 38 migrants show up one year, but it became totally worth it when I noticed a child blinking...
He's a legendary weaponsmith savant. He's only 3, so doubtlessly it'll rust by the time he matures, and by then I may have other legendary weaponsmiths, but still. I'm assigning him a war animal. I will not have a child prodigy abducted by goblins or whatever.
I THINK child prodigies will still perform whatever labor they're good at, even if you don't want them to..... Congrats on that legendary 3 year old weaponsmith though!
Yep. I was quite surprised to see him take over my forge and start pumping out trap components and weapons for my militia.
Surprised, but pleased.
Now all I can think is, him being a kid means he won't get distracted by any other labor until he grows up.
EDIT: My alchemist lab refuses to do anything. It's powered, but it won't even do basic experiments. It wants non-economic stone, which may be the problem, but I've got tons of stone piled up that I made sure was turned to useable for just this purpose.
EDIT 2: Ignore the previous edit. I put the damn thing in the bottom left corner of a room and failed to notice that this boxed in the lab so that there were no pathable ways out of it. I am dumb.
Post by: greycat on July 08, 2013, 11:46:53 am
This is probably a bug, and it happens in vanilla as well (start a fortress, have some kids harvest crops until they are novice growers, abandon, start a new fortress, kids show up with novice grower skill, game assigns farming (fields) labor, and they start planting -- whether you wanted them to or not).
The other thing to remember about 3 year old weaponsmithing prodigies is they're halfway to adulthood in LFR, since our dwarves mature faster.
I'm not sure whether Legendary skills can actually rust or not. I thought I'd read something somewhere....
Post by: greycat on July 08, 2013, 01:47:58 pm
DFHack fixes are available: Ruby version (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=91166.msg4313566#msg4313566), Lua version (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=91166.msg4312699#msg4312699). The Ruby version appears to be the more polished of the two.
Post by: Putnam on July 08, 2013, 02:58:47 pm
Post by: Agent of Avarice on July 08, 2013, 06:41:59 pm
Post by: Remuthra on July 08, 2013, 06:47:27 pm
Post by: narhiril on July 08, 2013, 06:49:15 pm
I just stumbled across #0006334: Creatures, including dwarves, born in the fortress do not grow to full adult size. (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=6334)
DFHack fixes are available: Ruby version (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=91166.msg4313566#msg4313566), Lua version (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=91166.msg4312699#msg4312699). The Ruby version appears to be the more polished of the two.
Thanks, I'll include that in the next release.
Post by: Agent of Avarice on July 08, 2013, 06:50:23 pm
That's something we're trying to work out. The thread is here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=111103.0).
That was quick, thanks I'll go give my two cents I suppose.
Post by: narhiril on July 08, 2013, 07:16:07 pm
Post by: Remuthra on July 08, 2013, 07:20:10 pm
Post by: narhiril on July 08, 2013, 11:49:07 pm
Do we get to know what the options mean, or is this just a poll to decide the name?
At this point, this is purely for the name.
Note that this poll won't be up for very long, so please, if you want your input to be heard, now's the time.
Post by: Pan on July 09, 2013, 11:58:15 pm
And uhm, Narhiril, wanna join in the succession fort? :)
Post by: narhiril on July 10, 2013, 07:55:43 am
Yeah, LFR fortress is good. Who wants to start it up? I will if no one else will :)
And uhm, Narhiril, wanna join in the succession fort? :)
Why not? :)
Post by: greycat on July 12, 2013, 03:08:29 pm
Are Shedim really supposed to perform a siege when you've only got 22 dwarves? That seems a bit cruel.
Post by: Remuthra on July 12, 2013, 03:10:38 pm
Post by: greycat on July 12, 2013, 03:27:29 pm
They can often come in the first half of the second year if close by.
Well, now we know that they can come in the second half of the first year, too.
Post by: Imp on July 12, 2013, 04:32:39 pm
They can often come in the first half of the second year if close by.
Well, now we know that they can come in the second half of the first year, too.
By chance, did you have unusually high wealth? Possibly even through the vileness of a pre-existing map 'feature' or such? Wealth can trigger stuff too.
Post by: greycat on July 12, 2013, 06:04:50 pm
Post by: Pan on July 13, 2013, 09:08:07 am
I just stumbled across #0006334: Creatures, including dwarves, born in the fortress do not grow to full adult size. (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=6334)
DFHack fixes are available: Ruby version (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=91166.msg4313566#msg4313566), Lua version (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=91166.msg4312699#msg4312699). The Ruby version appears to be the more polished of the two.
Wait, was this bug always there? Ugh, that sure kills immersion.
Post by: greycat on July 14, 2013, 03:15:09 pm
Quote
Create overgrown pedestals - takes 1 stone and 1 plant, produces an overgrown pedestal.
But the game actually grabs 5 stones and up to 2 stacks(*) of plants.
The raws say:
Quote
[ITEM_TOOL:ITEM_TOOL_NATURE_SHRINE_COMP]
[NAME:pedestal:pedestals]
[ADJECTIVE:overgrown]
[VALUE:20]
[HARD_MAT]
[TILE:9]
[SIZE:50000]
[MATERIAL_SIZE:5]
and
Quote
[REACTION:SHRINE_COMP_TWO]
[NAME:fabricate overgrown pedestal]
[BUILDING:TEMPLE_CONSTRUCT_LFR:CUSTOM_P]
[REAGENT:A:5:BOULDER:NO_SUBTYPE:INORGANIC:NONE][WORTHLESS_STONE_ONLY]
[REAGENT:B:2:PLANT:NONE:NONE:NONE]
[PRODUCT:100:1:TOOL:ITEM_TOOL_NATURE_SHRINE_COMP:GET_MATERIAL_FROM_REAGENT:A:NONE]
[SKILL:STONECRAFT]
(*)If the first stack it grabs has >= 2 plants in it, then it doesn't need a second stack. If the first stack has 1 plant, it'll grab a second stack. If the second stack has >= 2 plants, then the extras will not be used up by the reaction.
Post by: narhiril on July 14, 2013, 11:55:46 pm
The manual says:QuoteCreate overgrown pedestals - takes 1 stone and 1 plant, produces an overgrown pedestal.
But the game actually grabs 5 stones and up to 2 stacks(*) of plants.
The raws say:Quote[ITEM_TOOL:ITEM_TOOL_NATURE_SHRINE_COMP]
[NAME:pedestal:pedestals]
[ADJECTIVE:overgrown]
[VALUE:20]
[HARD_MAT]
[TILE:9]
[SIZE:50000]
[MATERIAL_SIZE:5]
andQuote[REACTION:SHRINE_COMP_TWO]
[NAME:fabricate overgrown pedestal]
[BUILDING:TEMPLE_CONSTRUCT_LFR:CUSTOM_P]
[REAGENT:A:5:BOULDER:NO_SUBTYPE:INORGANIC:NONE][WORTHLESS_STONE_ONLY]
[REAGENT:B:2:PLANT:NONE:NONE:NONE]
[PRODUCT:100:1:TOOL:ITEM_TOOL_NATURE_SHRINE_COMP:GET_MATERIAL_FROM_REAGENT:A:NONE]
[SKILL:STONECRAFT]
(*)If the first stack it grabs has >= 2 plants in it, then it doesn't need a second stack. If the first stack has 1 plant, it'll grab a second stack. If the second stack has >= 2 plants, then the extras will not be used up by the reaction.
Nice catch, that's a manual error. Fixed for next version.
Post by: greycat on July 16, 2013, 04:22:37 pm
In the spring of 131, the fortress was visited by Ovexirit Numediumsacrexi, the Minotaur Child. The civilians were ordered inside, while the marksdwarves were ordered to take positions on the walls. The Minotaur approached from the southeast, and nimbly dodged all the bolts that were fired at it, as it made its way toward the open drawbridge in the northern wall.
As the guest approached, it alarmed a Zinger which was pastured just outside the front wall. The Zinger chose to burst into flames, setting a great fire which devoured the grass around it, as well as the Minotaur.
The fire continued to spread, north and south, stopping only for the brook to the east, and the fortress's walls to the west. The civilians were kept inside. The bridge was ordered closed, but not in time; the fire had spread to the grassy inner courtyard. The fire continued to burn around the fortress, devouring all the grass to the north, south and west.
Eventually the fire in the inner courtyard burned out, and the civilians were allowed to take stock of the damages. The cage traps in the courtyard were intact, but the wooden cages had been destroyed. Many dwarves cried out that there were no cages to replace them. Over and over they cried. Orders were given to forge some new copper cages.
One of the ammo bins had also been destroyed, dropping its ammo into a nice little pile on the western edge of the ammo stockpile.
As the fires continued to spread to the far western edge of the land claimed by Fordedsabres, a caravan of elves chosen that moment to appear.
The elves appeared in the west.
In the fire.
Sometimes, Fordedsabres does have a bit of good luck after all.
Post by: lukstra on July 20, 2013, 05:59:00 pm
Anyone have any ideas?
EDIT:
Also, do Shedim eat body parts - like arms, legs, skin etc...? Because those also animate and it would be nice if they could get rid of those too.
Post by: narhiril on July 20, 2013, 08:57:13 pm
I have a fort in an evil region with undead reanimation, and I've found that Shedim are not attacked by the undead. I'm thinking of possibly trapping some Shedim and using them as a "cleanup" to eat corpses before they can animate. Has anyone thought about this already? For me it's just a concept, and I'm not sure how the real setup would created - specifically the problem of separating the undead and Shedim so that I can use traps/rocks to make only the undead collapse, allowing the Shedim cleanup crew to do it's work.
Anyone have any ideas?
EDIT:
Also, do Shedim eat body parts - like arms, legs, skin etc...? Because those also animate and it would be nice if they could get rid of those too.
They don't, unfortunately. By all accounts, they should, but there's an annoying technical reason why they don't. I may have to talk to someone to see if this would be possible with dfhack - Putnam might know, I'll send him a PM.
Post by: greycat on July 23, 2013, 12:01:50 pm
I've got some ethereal spheres from a previous alchemical experiment. I've even managed to find the "process ethereal spheres" job in the magma smelter, so now I have a mixture of "ethereal sphere" and "ethereal sphere (processed)" (the latter being far less valuable, as it has no quality).
I can't find the step by which ethereal spheres can be "melted down into a useable bar", as the manual says. Both of the spheres are listed as "TOY" in the raws. In fact I can't find a single thing that can be done with the processed spheres.
Post by: Jilladilla on July 23, 2013, 01:40:14 pm
My mayor is demanding an ethereal cabinet in her dining room.
I've got some ethereal spheres from a previous alchemical experiment. I've even managed to find the "process ethereal spheres" job in the magma smelter, so now I have a mixture of "ethereal sphere" and "ethereal sphere (processed)" (the latter being far less valuable, as it has no quality).
I can't find the step by which ethereal spheres can be "melted down into a useable bar", as the manual says. Both of the spheres are listed as "TOY" in the raws. In fact I can't find a single thing that can be done with the processed spheres.
Melt them. The processing the spheres is only to get rid of masterpiece status so the creators don't throw tantrums.
Post by: greycat on July 23, 2013, 06:27:10 pm
Looks like I got 2 ether bars from melting down all 10 spheres. That's not enough for the cabinet, so the alchemy continues.
Post by: greycat on July 24, 2013, 03:28:28 pm
The entrance to my fortress goes through a dwarf-wash (a 3-tile trench filled with 2/7 water). At some point, shortly after the arrival of an elven caravan, and a bunch of bog troll thieves and ambushes, and the activation of a cold zinger that arrived with some recent migrants, somehow some extra water ended up in this dwarf-wash. This made the trench too deep to cross, effectively cutting my fortress in half -- nobody could cross the water boundary. It took me a while to figure out why dwarves were just standing around doing nothing, etc. I extended the trench one tile west to spread the water out, and that "fixed" it, but....
Now I'm wondering how this extra water got into the trench. There were supposed to be 6 units of water in the trench, but there were 11 (3/7 + 4/7 + 4/7, currently spread out to 2/7 + 3/7 + 3/7 + 3/7). Somehow an extra 5 units of water got in there. I double-checked that there were no active pond zones on it. (This dwarf-wash has been in place for several in-game years, so that wasn't likely anyway.)
What else, apart from dwarves filling a pond, or flooding, or pumping, could have put water in there? Do bog trolls bleed water, or something? Do zinger explosions cause it to condense out of the atmosphere? I'm wondering what I need to avoid in the future....
Post by: Imp on July 24, 2013, 05:55:47 pm
Do zinger explosions cause it to condense out of the atmosphere?
A tile of any amount of water can be made to freeze. Once frozen, it will completely fill the square that had contained water (possibly blocking movement) and upon thawing it will become a 7-deep square of water which will then behave normally.
By the math you gave, it seems likely that a single 2-deep pond square froze, then thawed to release the extra 5 units of water into your system. This is from DF's programming, not LFR's changes.
Post by: greycat on July 24, 2013, 06:43:15 pm
Those damned zingers... I think I need to figure out a way to arrange some "accidents". Far, far away. Sure, the burning elves were great, but the frozen dwarf babies, not so much. I slaughtered all the non-pet zingers, but the pets can't be dealt with so easily.
Or maybe I can just pasture them all in alcoves and wall 'em up like casks of amontillado. That would be easier....
Post by: Remuthra on July 24, 2013, 06:45:51 pm
Post by: greycat on July 25, 2013, 09:48:01 am
Having the enemies attacked by the zingers isn't helping me either. Either the zinger sets the entire outdoor Z-level on fire, or it causes some sort of super-cold freeze explosion chain reaction, where the zinger explodes and does damage to everything in range, and then the enemy wanders a few steps, and then it starts exploding and doing damage to everything in range, etc.
Surely there's a way to weaponize them without causing more damage to my dwarves than to the enemy, but I'm not clever enough to come up with it.
Post by: Remuthra on July 25, 2013, 09:51:52 am
Post by: Jilladilla on July 25, 2013, 07:14:02 pm
Post by: Imp on July 25, 2013, 07:34:15 pm
Assign 1 non-grazing animal to any of those 1x1 pastures, then forget about it. The creature will be freed from the square if another dwarf or animal enters that pasture - but with ample walking area around, no dwarf should ever do so, and most free animals who happen into the area should go around as well. If the 'locked down' animal gives birth, immediately go to the pasture and free the babies - you do not want 2+ animals standing on the same square for long. I highly recommend assigning each baby to its own lock down immediately after birth. The mother may or may not have 'escaped' in the chaos of birth, but you can safely ignore that - dwarves will quickly return any 'escapees' to their assigned lock down without further interaction required by you.
Bonus trick - if ever animal you have is either caged or pastured, identifying newborns or any accidentally freed from pasture critter you have becomes a snap, when you go to the pasture you've chosen for a new, free beast, all the other critters will be displayed as already having an assigned location, so you just select one of the very few that are free.
Post by: greycat on July 25, 2013, 09:04:02 pm
Consider picking a very safe portion of your fortress which is also distant from areas used for parties or meeting zones and making a series of 1x1 pastures with ample walking space around them, so that each is accessible without a dwarf being forced to walk through any pasture. I consider these 'pastures' to be 'lock downs'.
Well, I started by putting them waaay in the back of the underground sculpture garden, just as a temporary measure.
Then I dug some 1x2 alcoves near the (still unused) prison cells. Built some green glass grates. Assigned pet zingers into the prison alcoves, and installed the grates in front of them.
If they give birth, the mother and child can fight to the death for all I care.
Post by: Putnam on July 31, 2013, 01:41:42 am
Not sure why I feel like I need to gush so much about this, but I just do. It's strangely nostalgic despite being pretty unique as far as content goes that I can think of, and I guess I really like it when things make me feel like I'm 7 years old and playing A Link to the Past again.
Post by: Skasi on July 31, 2013, 01:45:02 pm
Post by: Imp on July 31, 2013, 02:11:48 pm
Typo report from the manual: "Creatures who get dust in their eyes will hav+e their visi9on severely impaired" Too much + and 9! Drama!
Seems like visual impairment to me.
Post by: Remuthra on August 05, 2013, 11:54:08 pm
Post by: Putnam on August 05, 2013, 11:54:24 pm
Does dfhack allow for the kind of syndromes Ether was planned to have? If so, will we be seeing its original concept again?
What kind are those?
Post by: Remuthra on August 05, 2013, 11:56:04 pm
I believe Ether was originally planned to cause harmful syndromes of some sort to the user, but this was scrapped due to DF's syndrome system not allowing for it.Does dfhack allow for the kind of syndromes Ether was planned to have? If so, will we be seeing its original concept again?
What kind are those?
Post by: Putnam on August 05, 2013, 11:57:14 pm
Post by: narhiril on August 07, 2013, 12:12:08 pm
So I've been playing DF again for the first time in quite a while because DFTerm and can I just say again (unless I haven't before) that this is my favorite mod? I just love how... I can't put my finger on it. I actually have fun playing it, like, legitimate child-like fun. I usually don't feel that with games in general, much less DF mods where any sense of childlike wonder is completely crushed by my near-encyclopedic knowledge of DF's game mechanics and modding techniques.
Not sure why I feel like I need to gush so much about this, but I just do. It's strangely nostalgic despite being pretty unique as far as content goes that I can think of, and I guess I really like it when things make me feel like I'm 7 years old and playing A Link to the Past again.
I'm honored! :)
Working on some underground race concept art. I'll be sure to share when it's presentable.
Post by: Meph on August 07, 2013, 02:17:01 pm
Quote
NOTE: For technical reasons, a dwarf that has transformed as part of the ritual tree's ceremony reactions will be unable to successfully assemble a spider construct. Bear this in mind,
and use your manager screen to make sure you're not wasting any efforts!
This can actually be fixed by using the TrueTransformation plugin. I think you know this, so maybe I am just alerting you to an outdated manual entry...
EDIT: Found another one:
Quote
Hostile races will not fight amongst each other (except for goblins) outside of legends mode. This is currently impossible for me to fix given the current engine.Can be done by interactions, for example one race can turn another race opposed_to_life to force an engagement, or by using completely different ethics in their entity files. You have quite a high chance for a war between the civs then. They will fight each other if they meet near your fort. It also makes balancing worldgens harder, because they wipe each other out more easily.
EDIT2: And the ether entry putnam was talking about:
Quote
NOTES: Ether was supposed to cause a syndrome upon contact with certain creatures, but this idea had to be scrapped due to technical difficulties. The remnants of this code have not been removed from the raws, but should not affect anything.Can indeed be done now with itemsyndrome or spatter_add, if you want to make ether-coated weapons.
EDIT3: Greater ritual of sustenance claims to take live vermin as a reagent... at least in the manual. The reaction raws takes ash, among other things, but no vermin. Were you unable to use live vermin as a reagent?
EDIT4: And a last one: I remember there being a problem with civ-member and the mischivious tag. Was that ever solved, does your mystery caste work know? If you cant answer here about it, you can send me a PM, to avoid spoilering people.
EDIT5: Silly me forgot one thing... putnams moddable gods. :) You can add your invented pantheon of Visthel and all the other gods as actual deities into the mod.
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/13790475/sheogorath.PNG)
Post by: narhiril on August 08, 2013, 07:56:16 am
@ Meph, edit3: No, it didn't work, so I changed it to ash and forgot to adjust the manual.
@ Meph, edit4: They don't actually act mischievous, but they go around poisoning your dwarves and watchers look for the tag to expose them.
Post by: greycat on August 08, 2013, 08:40:30 pm
@ Meph, edit4: They don't actually act mischievous, but they go around poisoning your dwarves and watchers look for the tag to expose them.
I've seen these appear in an actual fortress, too.
Post by: !!Fyre!! on August 10, 2013, 07:29:02 am
I came here to post that I seem to be hitting a bug where my alchemist's workshop is not recognizing that I have orichalcum bars available, so i can't progress past tier 0 of the mechanical tree. I'll post screens showing that the bars are sitting there at my smelter (and no they are not tasked for pickup) but the alchemist simply doesn't believe they're there so the option to fabricate precision tools is locked. Any clue how I can fix this?
The Alchemy Lab showing no bars available
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
And the bars sitting at the smelter
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Remuthra on August 10, 2013, 10:30:16 am
First off, I just DL'ed the mod and it's awesome so thank you!What are your burrow settings?
I came here to post that I seem to be hitting a bug where my alchemist's workshop is not recognizing that I have orichalcum bars available, so i can't progress past tier 0 of the mechanical tree. I'll post screens showing that the bars are sitting there at my smelter (and no they are not tasked for pickup) but the alchemist simply doesn't believe they're there so the option to fabricate precision tools is locked. Any clue how I can fix this?
The Alchemy Lab showing no bars availableSpoiler (click to show/hide)
And the bars sitting at the smelterSpoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: !!Fyre!! on August 10, 2013, 01:02:58 pm
EDIT: After checking I did have a burrow i forgot about that i made to force miners into a specific area. The odd thing is that noone was assigned there, but after expanding the burrow to use as my civ alert "inside" burrow, the lab now accepts that the orichalucum exists. Not sure why that worked but thanks.
Post by: Remuthra on August 10, 2013, 01:13:21 pm
No burrows have been created yet.If there is a burrow with either the materials or the workshop but not both in existence, the workshop's red-enabled reactions will not accept the outside materials. It's a weird bug in DF.
EDIT: After checking I did have a burrow i forgot about that i made to force miners into a specific area. The odd thing is that noone was assigned there, but after expanding the burrow to use as my civ alert "inside" burrow, the lab now accepts that the orichalucum exists. Not sure why that worked but thanks.
Post by: !!Fyre!! on August 10, 2013, 05:23:02 pm
Post by: Remuthra on August 10, 2013, 05:27:50 pm
Ok, I'm running into another issue now that I never had in vanilla DF. I've also read the last ten or so pages of posts here and haven't seen this issue discussed. Basically, I have trade relations with humans, elves, meowkin, nephilim, and of course dwarves. At first this seemed cool, but after the first year I started getting 2 caravans at the same time 2x a year, with elves being the one that comes by themselves. The problem is that one of the wagons gets to the depot and starts unloading and the other civ's wagons run into it freezeing them there and causing massive traffic jams. Eventually one or more wagons gets destroyed and that civ tries to pack up and leave. Unfortunately it usually prevents either caravan from unloading before they are ready to leave preventing any sort of trade other than getting the "free" stuff the desroyed wagon drops. The elves of course still get thier full yearly export of terror and offerings of vengance. I tried to alleviate the backups by building additional depots. I still have the same problem except now it's in 3 separate places. Anyone know a way to prevent this?I've never actually had this problem, and I suspect it would be caused by some flaw in your depot system. Only one depot is ever really needed, and when multiple caravans unload to trade, they share the place fine. Selecting Trade opens a menu to select which caravan you wish to direct the trading effort at.
Post by: !!Fyre!! on August 10, 2013, 06:48:36 pm
Edit: This is a pic of the caravan the following season. The dwarves from the past season have not left yet and apparently thier presence is blocking access to the depot. This is still early spring so maybe a month since the Nephilim have shown up and already the traffic jam has killed a wagon.
The pileup
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I have the cursor over the wagon remains so you can see it's not just a stack of wood or a dump pile.
Edit2: This is completely off topic but I just saw how tiny my screenshots are on the forum, how can i get them to be full sized?
Post by: lukstra on August 11, 2013, 03:26:39 am
*edit: and by "straight path" I mean a 3-time wide path with walls on the side, forcing wagons to proceed in an orderly manner. I usually do this right up to the map edge with bridges for the last bit as the only path to the depot, to force the wagons to appear there instead of navigating around the landscape and possibly glitching.
To address your question about screenshots, what I've found that works is if I upload the image to an image-sharing site (flickr in my case), navigate to the URL of the uploaded image (by itself, meaning ww._______.jpg) and inserting that in-between the image tags used for this forum.
Post by: lukstra on August 12, 2013, 12:56:04 am
My rather small fortress was chugging along quietly when I suddenly get a bunch of messages about interruptions by my archer squad captain, of all things. I zoom to the action, and see that the guy is trying to kill everybody, though I can still control him through the squad screen. Looking at the personality screen reveals nothing out of the ordinary, other then that he is suddenly an enemy of my civ. I can't order my militia captain to directly kill him, so I instead station him nearby. He immediately goes to attack the marksdwarf, and after inflicting several wounds, another dwarf comes, picks the marksdwarf up and tries to bring him to the hospital, all the while trying to flee from him at the same time. Eventually, after a chase all over the fortress, interrupting all industry, the marksdwarf is killed.
Is this some kind of hidden feature of LFR? I've never had this happen in a regular game. I don't think this was a loyalty cascade, since nothing had died in almost a year. However, I had just traded for a watcher from a caravan, though it was still sitting in the trade depot in it's cage.
Post by: Remuthra on August 12, 2013, 02:06:34 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Jilladilla on August 12, 2013, 05:30:23 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: lukstra on August 14, 2013, 12:48:26 am
I was intrigued by the problem, and to really see what the cause was, I save-scummed before the incident. However, this time, a dwarf started getting interrupted by a different dwarf, not my marksdwarf. The first time the clothier was interrupted by the marksdwarf, resulting in the rampage I described in an earlier post. This time the armorer was interrupted by the cook, and after the armorer punched the cook in self defense, the cook and the armorer became enemies of my civ and started trying to kill everybody. This occurred immediately after a nephal caravan arrived, though the caravan did not have bring a watcher. So... I save-scummed and tried again. This time, a mechanic was interrupted by a metal-smith, and the same cascade occurred, although with different instigators. What the heck is happening!
Post by: Imp on August 14, 2013, 02:31:00 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
How about what Jilladilla said? Which I support.
If you don't mind being spoiled, open that there spoiler and consider how that could explain what you observed across multiple savescums. If you do mind being spoiled.... keep entertaining us with your experiences, most of us love to hear them! But I fear we have no non-spoiler answers.
Post by: lukstra on August 14, 2013, 04:15:37 am
Coincidentally, two plagues are simultaneously sweeping the fortress. One causes severe and extended vomiting, while the other causes rot and slow, painful death. Ironically, the progression of the plagues is the perfect excuse for isolating dwarfs to narrow down the culprit list. Infected dwarfs are quarantined in their rooms, and eliminated from the suspect list on the event of an attack. As a precaution, the meeting hall has been flooded with slimers and jackalopes to act as a buffer to prevent violence between dwarfs and thus the loyalty cascade that follows. Upon the event of an attack on a pet or fellow dwarf, the attacker is eliminated from the suspect list.
Summer rolls by. The source of the rotting plague has been discovered. It seems that a nephal merchant arrived with the disease, transferring it to hapless dwarfs as they loaded the trade depot with golden crafts and riches.
In the first month of autumn, and only three suspects remain: Atir the carpenter, Sakzul the planter, and Fikod the mason. The break comes as Olon the metal-smith suddenly strikes a slimer. Sakzul, the only other dwarf in the room, does not flee and thus confirms his guilt as the long-sought traitor. Immediate isolation of Sakzul ended the attacks immediately. Thus one problem is solved, while another is posed: What to do with Sakzul?"
Lessons and facts learned:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Imp on August 14, 2013, 04:48:03 am
I have many LFR experiences, but none have taken me along the branch you have walked. I have kept watcher after watcher in game after game scanning dwarf after dwarf, but never, ever have I been blessed with a traitor spotted... or any symptoms of one which somehow was not seen.
Also, merchant after merchant, and all sorts of invaders, none have brought to my fortresses any illnesses by being already sick themselves.
Huzzah to the promise, forever testing true:
-What you encounter in one fortress will not be the same as what you encounter next time!
LFR also include a manual, guides, and resources to help you navigate the brave new world you're entering. This is just a taste of the included features. If you want to learn more, you'll have to learn it yourself. LFR is there to be discovered, not revealed.
Post by: lukstra on August 14, 2013, 12:49:44 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: narhiril on August 14, 2013, 02:02:06 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I'm actually a little bit astounded that they actually worked. Shh, don't tell. xD
After a total fiasco involving my ISP, I should finally be able to get some concept art online later tonight.
Post by: Putnam on August 14, 2013, 05:14:27 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: greycat on August 14, 2013, 07:18:57 pm
At one point I did see one dwarf with the "(EXPOSED)" tag. I was able to search for that in the manual and reverse engineer some of what had happened.
Post by: narhiril on August 16, 2013, 04:33:43 pm
Spoiler: Racial and Mythical Weapons (click to show/hide)
Post by: ArchAIngel on August 16, 2013, 08:10:48 pm
I know I've promised concept art, but I don't have access to a scanner right now, so in the meantime, here's a teaser for the next version.Idea- Humans have swiss pikemen. Those guys were TOUGH. Nice way to make a unique weapon though. Also, maybe humans had a tech advantage long ago, and they are the vanguard? Like halo? Just a thought.Spoiler: Racial and Mythical Weapons (click to show/hide)
Post by: Meph on August 17, 2013, 09:46:52 am
Have you considered classics, like "gauntlets of ogre strength", "seven mile boots" and "invisibility cloaks" and all that? :)
Post by: narhiril on August 21, 2013, 12:29:58 pm
Nice, I am just working on the very same thing. My Warlocks come with cursed armor that drives dwarves mad after a while if they wear it, and the temple has to cleanse this corrupted material first.
Have you considered classics, like "gauntlets of ogre strength", "seven mile boots" and "invisibility cloaks" and all that? :)
I think boots of speed and "power bracelets" will probably make it into this first iteration. ;)
Post by: Putnam on August 21, 2013, 02:07:39 pm
Nice, I am just working on the very same thing. My Warlocks come with cursed armor that drives dwarves mad after a while if they wear it, and the temple has to cleanse this corrupted material first.
If you're using itemsyndrome for that, note that I can't think of a way that you could do that without having it so that any dwarf who puts on the cursed armor at any point for any amount of time will go insane.
Post by: Meph on August 21, 2013, 02:35:59 pm
EDIT: I got it. Item-sets. :)
Code: [Select]
[INTERACTION:ARMOK_BOOST]
[I_SOURCE:CREATURE_ACTION]
[I_TARGET:A:CREATURE]
[IT_LOCATION:CONTEXT_CREATURE]
[IT_CANNOT_HAVE_SYNDROME_CLASS:BOOST]
[IT_CANNOT_HAVE_SYNDROME_CLASS:LOCK_1]
[IT_CANNOT_HAVE_SYNDROME_CLASS:LOCK_2]
[IT_MANUAL_INPUT:self]
[I_EFFECT:ADD_SYNDROME]
[IE_TARGET:A][IE_IMMEDIATE][SYNDROME]
[SYN_NAME:boost]
[SYN_CLASS:BOOST] => also has all the unlocks itself.
[SYN_CLASS:UNLOCK_LOCK_1]
[SYN_CLASS:UNLOCK_LOCK_2]
[CE_SPEED_CHANGE:SPEED_PERC:3000:START:5:END:1000]
[INTERACTION:ARMOK_LOCK_1]
[I_SOURCE:CREATURE_ACTION]
[I_TARGET:A:CREATURE]
[IT_LOCATION:CONTEXT_CREATURE]
[IT_CANNOT_HAVE_SYNDROME_CLASS:BOOST]
[IT_CANNOT_HAVE_SYNDROME_CLASS:UNLOCK_LOCK_1]
[IT_MANUAL_INPUT:self]
[I_EFFECT:ADD_SYNDROME]
[IE_TARGET:A][IE_IMMEDIATE][SYNDROME]
[SYN_NAME:LOCK_1]
[SYN_CLASS:LOCK_1]
[CE_SPEED_CHANGE:SPEED_PERC:101:START:0:END:500]
[INTERACTION:ARMOK_LOCK_2]
[I_SOURCE:CREATURE_ACTION]
[I_TARGET:A:CREATURE]
[IT_LOCATION:CONTEXT_CREATURE]
[IT_CANNOT_HAVE_SYNDROME_CLASS:BOOST]
[IT_CANNOT_HAVE_SYNDROME_CLASS:UNLOCK_LOCK_2]
[IT_MANUAL_INPUT:self]
[I_EFFECT:ADD_SYNDROME]
[IE_TARGET:A][IE_IMMEDIATE][SYNDROME]
[SYN_NAME:LOCK_2]
[SYN_CLASS:LOCK_2]
[CE_SPEED_CHANGE:SPEED_PERC:101:START:0:END:500]
[INTERACTION:ARMOK_UNLOCK_LOCK_1]
[I_SOURCE:CREATURE_ACTION]
[I_TARGET:A:CREATURE]
[IT_LOCATION:CONTEXT_CREATURE]
[IT_CANNOT_HAVE_SYNDROME_CLASS:BOOST]
[IT_MANUAL_INPUT:self]
[I_EFFECT:ADD_SYNDROME]
[IE_TARGET:A][IE_IMMEDIATE][SYNDROME]
[SYN_NAME:b1]
[SYN_CLASS:UNLOCK_LOCK_1]
[CE_SPEED_CHANGE:SPEED_PERC:101:START:0:END:1100]
[INTERACTION:ARMOK_UNLOCK_LOCK_2]
[I_SOURCE:CREATURE_ACTION]
[I_TARGET:A:CREATURE]
[IT_LOCATION:CONTEXT_CREATURE]
[IT_CANNOT_HAVE_SYNDROME_CLASS:BOOST]
[IT_MANUAL_INPUT:self]
[I_EFFECT:ADD_SYNDROME]
[IE_TARGET:A][IE_IMMEDIATE][SYNDROME]
[SYN_NAME:b2]
[SYN_CLASS:UNLOCK_LOCK_2]
[CE_SPEED_CHANGE:SPEED_PERC:101:START:0:END:1100]
Code: [Select]
[INORGANIC:ADAMANTINE1]
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:METAL_TEMPLATE]
[STATE_NAME_ADJ:ALL_SOLID:adamantine]
[STATE_NAME_ADJ:LIQUID:molten adamantine]
[STATE_NAME_ADJ:GAS:boiling adamantine]
[DISPLAY_COLOR:3:3:1] [BUILD_COLOR:3:3:1]
[MATERIAL_VALUE:300]
[SPEC_HEAT:7500]
[MELTING_POINT:25000]
[BOILING_POINT:50000]
[ITEMS_WEAPON][ITEMS_WEAPON_RANGED][ITEMS_AMMO][ITEMS_DIGGER][ITEMS_ARMOR][ITEMS_ANVIL]
[ITEMS_HARD]
[ITEMS_METAL]
[ITEMS_BARRED]
[ITEMS_SCALED]
[ITEMS_SOFT]
[WAFERS]
[SOLID_DENSITY:200]
[LIQUID_DENSITY:2600]
[MOLAR_MASS:55845]
[IMPACT_YIELD:5000000]
[IMPACT_FRACTURE:5000000]
[IMPACT_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:0]
[COMPRESSIVE_YIELD:5000000]
[COMPRESSIVE_FRACTURE:5000000]
[COMPRESSIVE_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:0]
[TENSILE_YIELD:5000000]
[TENSILE_FRACTURE:5000000]
[TENSILE_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:0]
[TORSION_YIELD:5000000]
[TORSION_FRACTURE:5000000]
[TORSION_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:0]
[SHEAR_YIELD:5000000]
[SHEAR_FRACTURE:5000000]
[SHEAR_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:0]
[BENDING_YIELD:5000000]
[BENDING_FRACTURE:5000000]
[BENDING_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:0]
[MAX_EDGE:100000]
[DEEP_SPECIAL]
[STOCKPILE_THREAD_METAL]
[REACTION_CLASS:ADAMANTINE_COATING]
[SYNDROME][SYN_CLASS:DFHACK_ITEM_SYNDROME] for item "armor of armok"
[CE_CAN_DO_INTERACTION:START:0:END:450]
[CDI:INTERACTION:ARMOK_LOCK_1]
[CDI:TARGET:A:SELF_ONLY]
[CDI:VERB:1:lock #1:NA]
[CDI:ADV_NAME:test 1]
[CDI:TARGET_RANGE:A:1]
[CDI:MAX_TARGET_NUMBER:A:1]
[CDI:WAIT_PERIOD:1]
[CE_CAN_DO_INTERACTION:START:0:END:450]
[CDI:INTERACTION:ARMOK_LOCK_2]
[CDI:TARGET:A:SELF_ONLY]
[CDI:VERB:2:lock #2:NA]
[CDI:ADV_NAME:test 2]
[CDI:TARGET_RANGE:A:1]
[CDI:MAX_TARGET_NUMBER:A:1]
[CDI:WAIT_PERIOD:1]
[CE_CAN_DO_INTERACTION:START:5:END:460]
[CDI:INTERACTION:ARMOK_BOOST]
[CDI:TARGET:A:SELF_ONLY]
[CDI:VERB:boost:gets the bonus from the completed set:NA]
[CDI:ADV_NAME:test boost]
[CDI:TARGET_RANGE:A:1]
[CDI:MAX_TARGET_NUMBER:A:1]
[CDI:WAIT_PERIOD:10]
[INORGANIC:ADAMANTINE2]
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:METAL_TEMPLATE]
[STATE_NAME_ADJ:ALL_SOLID:adamantine]
[STATE_NAME_ADJ:LIQUID:molten adamantine]
[STATE_NAME_ADJ:GAS:boiling adamantine]
[DISPLAY_COLOR:3:3:1] [BUILD_COLOR:3:3:1]
[MATERIAL_VALUE:300]
[SPEC_HEAT:7500]
[MELTING_POINT:25000]
[BOILING_POINT:50000]
[ITEMS_WEAPON][ITEMS_WEAPON_RANGED][ITEMS_AMMO][ITEMS_DIGGER][ITEMS_ARMOR][ITEMS_ANVIL]
[ITEMS_HARD]
[ITEMS_METAL]
[ITEMS_BARRED]
[ITEMS_SCALED]
[ITEMS_SOFT]
[WAFERS]
[SOLID_DENSITY:200]
[LIQUID_DENSITY:2600]
[MOLAR_MASS:55845]
[IMPACT_YIELD:5000000]
[IMPACT_FRACTURE:5000000]
[IMPACT_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:0]
[COMPRESSIVE_YIELD:5000000]
[COMPRESSIVE_FRACTURE:5000000]
[COMPRESSIVE_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:0]
[TENSILE_YIELD:5000000]
[TENSILE_FRACTURE:5000000]
[TENSILE_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:0]
[TORSION_YIELD:5000000]
[TORSION_FRACTURE:5000000]
[TORSION_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:0]
[SHEAR_YIELD:5000000]
[SHEAR_FRACTURE:5000000]
[SHEAR_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:0]
[BENDING_YIELD:5000000]
[BENDING_FRACTURE:5000000]
[BENDING_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:0]
[MAX_EDGE:100000]
[DEEP_SPECIAL]
[STOCKPILE_THREAD_METAL]
[REACTION_CLASS:ADAMANTINE_COATING]
[SYNDROME][SYN_CLASS:DFHACK_ITEM_SYNDROME] [SYN_NAME:shield of armok]
[CE_CAN_DO_INTERACTION:START:0:END:1000]
[CDI:INTERACTION:ARMOK_UNLOCK_LOCK_1]
[CDI:TARGET:A:SELF_ONLY]
[CDI:VERB:b1:unlock lock #1:NA]
[CDI:ADV_NAME:test b1]
[CDI:TARGET_RANGE:A:1]
[CDI:MAX_TARGET_NUMBER:A:1]
[INORGANIC:ADAMANTINE3]
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:METAL_TEMPLATE]
[STATE_NAME_ADJ:ALL_SOLID:adamantine]
[STATE_NAME_ADJ:LIQUID:molten adamantine]
[STATE_NAME_ADJ:GAS:boiling adamantine]
[DISPLAY_COLOR:3:3:1] [BUILD_COLOR:3:3:1]
[MATERIAL_VALUE:300]
[SPEC_HEAT:7500]
[MELTING_POINT:25000]
[BOILING_POINT:50000]
[ITEMS_WEAPON][ITEMS_WEAPON_RANGED][ITEMS_AMMO][ITEMS_DIGGER][ITEMS_ARMOR][ITEMS_ANVIL]
[ITEMS_HARD]
[ITEMS_METAL]
[ITEMS_BARRED]
[ITEMS_SCALED]
[ITEMS_SOFT]
[WAFERS]
[SOLID_DENSITY:200]
[LIQUID_DENSITY:2600]
[MOLAR_MASS:55845]
[IMPACT_YIELD:5000000]
[IMPACT_FRACTURE:5000000]
[IMPACT_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:0]
[COMPRESSIVE_YIELD:5000000]
[COMPRESSIVE_FRACTURE:5000000]
[COMPRESSIVE_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:0]
[TENSILE_YIELD:5000000]
[TENSILE_FRACTURE:5000000]
[TENSILE_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:0]
[TORSION_YIELD:5000000]
[TORSION_FRACTURE:5000000]
[TORSION_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:0]
[SHEAR_YIELD:5000000]
[SHEAR_FRACTURE:5000000]
[SHEAR_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:0]
[BENDING_YIELD:5000000]
[BENDING_FRACTURE:5000000]
[BENDING_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:0]
[MAX_EDGE:100000]
[DEEP_SPECIAL]
[STOCKPILE_THREAD_METAL]
[REACTION_CLASS:ADAMANTINE_COATING]
[SYNDROME][SYN_CLASS:DFHACK_ITEM_SYNDROME] [SYN_NAME:sword of armok]
[CE_CAN_DO_INTERACTION:START:0:END:1000]
[CDI:INTERACTION:ARMOK_UNLOCK_LOCK_2]
[CDI:TARGET:A:SELF_ONLY]
[CDI:VERB:b2:unlock lock #2:NA]
[CDI:ADV_NAME:test b2]
[CDI:TARGET_RANGE:A:1]
[CDI:MAX_TARGET_NUMBER:A:1]
Tested with 3 items, sword, shield and armor. When you first put on the item with adamantine1, which has both the locks and the boost, you might get the boost for a few times, before the locks prevent this. I dont know why this happens. And every now and then, maybe once a month, you might get the boost as well, even when the locks are on.
How it works:
The material adamantine1 uses itemsyndrome to add 3 syndromes. LOCK_1, LOCK_2 and BOOST.
LOCK_1 and LOCK_2 add SYN_CLASS:LOCK_1 and LOCK_2.
BOOST has CANNOT_HAVE_SYN_CLASS:LOCK_1 and LOCK_2.
This means the dwarf has the BOOST interaction, but cant target himself, because he has those syn-classes.
Adamantine2 and Adamantine3 are the keys. If you equip an item made of them, they will add a syndrome, UNLOCK_LOCK_1 & 2.
UNLOCK_LOCK_1 & 2 add the SYN_CLASS:UNLOCK_LOCK_1 & 2.
The previous interactions, LOCK_1 and LOCK_2 have CANNOT_HAVE_SYN_CLASS:UNLOCK_LOCK_1 & 2.
This means that wearing these additional items will block the lock 1 and lock 2 interactions. The dwarf with these items is no longer a valid target for the locks.
And if the dwarf is no target for lock_1 and lock_2, then there is nothing that could stop BOOST from targetting the dwarf. Result: If you wear items from 2 of the 3 materials, you dont get a BOOST. Only if you wear items from all 3 materials do you unlock the BOOST.
Hope the example helps if you want to try for yourself, and maybe you can even find a better timing then I did. the START:END:WAIT_PERIOD... those are the key to stopping the random BOOSTS from appearing. I havent found the perfect number yet.
The system can be used on any number of items and any type of items. I assume that the need for a better timing is higher the higher the number of items is.
EDIT2: I am still fiddling around with the start and end times, but the theory is sound :)
Post by: narhiril on August 26, 2013, 11:14:51 am
Today, I'm going to be working on some odds and ends related to the new cavern race (tentatively named "The Grum"). Here's a preview of what to expect:
Spoiler: lore_grum (click to show/hide)
Post by: narhiril on August 26, 2013, 12:08:15 pm
I know I've promised concept art, but I don't have access to a scanner right now, so in the meantime, here's a teaser for the next version.Idea- Humans have swiss pikemen. Those guys were TOUGH. Nice way to make a unique weapon though. Also, maybe humans had a tech advantage long ago, and they are the vanguard? Like halo? Just a thought.Spoiler: Racial and Mythical Weapons (click to show/hide)
There are descendants of the vanguard who are still alive today, but I'm not going to tell you who they are. ;)
Each Old God will have at least one mythical weapon associated with them, which will greatly empower one of their followers, but might not be a good idea to give to someone else. For example, don't give a hellfire brand to a normal soldier. It's funny, but bad.
Likewise, you will find some mythical weapons in places you aren't expecting, and many of them will not offer any clues as to what exactly they do. For example, if you find a cool weapon in a vanguard ruin and start witnessing weird phenomena in your fortress shortly thereafter, it very well might be that you've dug up something perhaps better left untouched. Some mythical weapons will not be so clear-cut - you may very well find a weapon that is both blessed and cursed, and you will have to identify its effects and then weigh its benefits against its risks. Many mythical weapons are game-changing powerhouses, but you would be well advised not to ever pick up a mythical weapon without being prepared for it to be cursed. But hey, maybe if you find a cursed weapon, you can still pawn it off to those naive little elves... Prepare yourself for surprises - It's going to be !!FUN!!
Post by: Iceblaster on August 26, 2013, 04:51:11 pm
Anyway. I will have to redownload this mod and try it out again... maybe later though. Either wya, I'll be back after I play a bit.
Post by: Meph on August 27, 2013, 01:14:53 am
Post by: Putnam on August 27, 2013, 01:28:55 am
That sounds amazing, a lot more intricate and thought through then what I had planned. ^^
welcome to LFR ;)
Post by: Meph on August 27, 2013, 02:01:29 am
Post by: narhiril on August 28, 2013, 10:23:24 am
That being said, emberlight warriors can use them safely... well, safely for them, anyway.
(http://i.imgur.com/ewM62ih.png)
Post by: Meph on August 28, 2013, 11:13:31 am
Post by: narhiril on August 28, 2013, 12:20:18 pm
I assume they get the firebreath, but self-targeted? ^^
It's enemy-targeted, they're just... not particularly bright.
Post by: Meph on August 28, 2013, 12:38:25 pm
Post by: narhiril on August 28, 2013, 03:47:51 pm
Here's what I've got so far:
Goblins gain boosts to several mental attributes while wielding daggers.
Nephilim gain a speed boost while wielding a lance.
Voidwalkers wielding reavers can now enter martial trances.
Humans do not suffer from attribute rust while wielding long swords or scimitars.
Elves gain a large willpower bonus when using greatbows.
Lizardmen cannot overexert themselves while wielding pitchforks.
Bog trolls gain a strength bonus when wielding two-handed swords or claymores.
Dwarves gain a toughness bonus while wielding runic defenders (new type of shield).
Meowkin gain increased agility while wielding quarterstaves.
Grum will be immune to fear while wielding a grum-made weapon.
Moroii and kobolds do not gain any racial weapon benefits. Shedim don't use weapons, so there's no point in giving them one, either.
I may very well do racial armor bonuses later, but for now that's all.
In addition to these, I've also got four or five mythical weapons finished - including the stonecrusher, which I had mentioned earlier, and the hellfire brand. The stonecrusher will most likely be a ritual item from the Temple of the Twins, while the hellfire brand will probably come from the Temple of Fire - other special weapons will be made available through other channels. Some of these ritual-related weapons will grant additional bonuses to units of the appropriate Old God, while some will be dangerous to use for anyone not favored (i.e. hellfire brand), and still others, in the most extreme cases, can only be wielded by the appropriate unit, and any other unit attempting to even pick up the weapon will suffer severe consequences for their hubris. Don't worry - Putnam's script ensures that this will not affect haulers unless specified, so dwarves moving items to stockpiles need not worry.
At least one or two mythical weapons will be added to the experimental weapons lab in addition to the already-present curious ritual knife. I plan to do a few more as monster drops, a few as vanguard artifacts, a few from advanced alchemy experiments, and a few more in even more obscure places. All in all, expect around 20 to 25 to be included in this release, with more to come in the future.
Post by: Putnam on August 28, 2013, 03:49:34 pm
Post by: narhiril on August 28, 2013, 04:00:22 pm
Okay, haha, never thought about giving mundane weapons itemsyndrome bonuses. I guess I did open that gate with creature classes, though.
Most of them are not very large bonuses - just a slight edge to the race that uses them most dominantly.
Post by: Imp on August 28, 2013, 04:04:51 pm
Post by: narhiril on August 29, 2013, 06:44:38 pm
Post by: Remuthra on August 29, 2013, 06:51:03 pm
Post by: narhiril on August 31, 2013, 03:13:08 pm
Currently doing some testing to make sure these weapon abilities actually work properly. If all goes well, I can just start hammering out more.
All went well. The hammering continues.
Post by: narhiril on September 04, 2013, 03:19:18 pm
Post by: SalmonGod on September 04, 2013, 04:33:41 pm
Today's project: the eternity staff. While wielded, the staff grants its user eternal life. They do not age, their muscles do not grow or decay, and their bodies become resistant to disease and attack. When dropped or removed from their possession for longer than a moment, however, the staff claims the life of the one who had used it - a curse that only the most powerful magics are able to stave off. This item will only be available in fortress mode, since there's no way to force a user to use an interaction in adventure mode.
That's a really cool idea!
Post by: narhiril on September 05, 2013, 08:37:14 pm
I've taken note of the poll results - which have changed a bit since I started developing this. For that reason, I'm making an executive decision to go with "grum" as the final name, but I've got a pretty interesting idea for a creature that "rockborn" might fit well.
Post by: Arkenor on September 06, 2013, 01:28:47 pm
Today's project: the eternity staff. While wielded, the staff grants its user eternal life. They do not age, their muscles do not grow or decay, and their bodies become resistant to disease and attack. When dropped or removed from their possession for longer than a moment, however, the staff claims the life of the one who had used it - a curse that only the most powerful magics are able to stave off. This item will only be available in fortress mode, since there's no way to force a user to use an interaction in adventure mode.
I'd be terrified of using that, given how hard it is to get a dwarf to never throw his stuff on the floor. And what about the person who crafts it? Or the dwarf that comes to haul it to the armoury?
Post by: narhiril on September 06, 2013, 06:06:24 pm
Post by: Meph on September 06, 2013, 10:35:51 pm
Post by: Putnam on September 06, 2013, 10:41:01 pm
No Bin of Speed?
Have you done that? :P
Post by: narhiril on September 11, 2013, 01:57:02 pm
No Bin of Speed?
Have you done that? :P
Alright, alright, I'll make a bin of speed. xD
Post by: Meph on September 11, 2013, 03:03:36 pm
Hope the magic items are going well. I got too distracted by other things to work on mine.
Post by: Imp on September 11, 2013, 03:07:10 pm
No Bin of Speed?
Have you done that? :P
Alright, alright, I'll make a bin of speed. xD
Wow. Just wow.
I briefly played with bins, once. I hated how they worked so completely that I have played without any since. [They do wicked things to my mental system of how I visually keep track of storage in my intermixed quantum and non-quantum storage areas, as bins may be full, partially full, or empty, and all look the same and all be filling up the storage space - and that dwarves would rather bin goods than leave them alone in a quantum storage square... which is NOT alright with me, that space is intended for NEW never quantum stockpiled items of whatever type!]
To the point that I would separately mark for purchase every individual item in a trader's bin that contained only things I wanted, because under no circumstances would I ever consider allowing bins among my fortress stocks again.
And this was from before the recent changes, where dwarves lug bins around on collecting tasks. I don't like that idea either. So now I doubly despise bins.
Grats, Narhiril! I feel some urge to revisit my vow to myself, that never again would I pollute my play with bins. I'm actually tempted, another amazement from your mod!
Post by: narhiril on September 11, 2013, 03:38:01 pm
(http://imgur.com/t7G5jZI.png)
The military ones will be substantially more interesting, but I'm not quite finished with those yet. Grum will wield weapons of their own design and gain fear immunity while in possession of one of these weapons. Many of their weapons were designed based on excavation tools. The grum will have access to steel and mithril, and will siege and ambush from the caverns. Grum forces will fight with shedim and forgotten beasts.
Post by: narhiril on September 12, 2013, 08:25:48 pm
Post by: Meph on September 13, 2013, 12:11:26 am
I just had an idea about magical weapons: Adding ADJECTIVE:artefact to all mood-only weapons and armors, and then giving them powerful abilities. This way they are super-rare, and watching a moody smith has even more suspense then it already has. :)
Post by: narhiril on September 13, 2013, 01:30:42 pm
Underground civs ignore the creatures depth:x:x and spawn in any of the three caverns. They can now be targeted with the force script, spawning neither sieges nor caravans. Just saying, in case thats one of your problems.
The actual civs aren't generating properly in the current version. This is fixed for the upcoming release.
Post by: narhiril on September 19, 2013, 07:37:03 pm
Post by: Jilladilla on September 19, 2013, 10:00:37 pm
New poll! Also, this coming version is now in testing! YAY!
Wooo! And new poll alright what do I pick... OH GOD IT'S SO HARD...
Well no matter what wins, I feel the mod will just get better.
Keep up the good work Narhiril!
Post by: Putnam on September 19, 2013, 10:03:26 pm
Post by: narhiril on September 19, 2013, 11:35:59 pm
I voted weapons/armor, but I'm biased :P
Just a little ;)
Post by: greycat on September 20, 2013, 10:38:38 pm
Post by: Remuthra on September 20, 2013, 10:39:40 pm
I'm the only one who loves the Ritual tree? Awww.The ritual tree is fine, but it's not URIST Defense Systems.
Post by: Meph on September 21, 2013, 05:24:23 am
Post by: Remuthra on September 21, 2013, 07:00:23 am
Well, I am the lone guy that voted for Plagues ;)Aww, didn't see that one.
Post by: Imp on September 21, 2013, 04:36:01 pm
I'm the only one who loves the Ritual tree? Awww.
Most assuredly not!
The poll, after all, asks for which one we MOST want to see. So we only get to pick our single top fav.
I'm sure those choices, with the question changed to:
Which of these are you least interested in seeing expanded further in LFR?
Would not see the ritual tree as the top pick.
Post by: narhiril on October 02, 2013, 05:08:40 pm
Post by: Putnam on October 02, 2013, 05:23:55 pm
Yeah, the script threw a fit over it, due to the way I wrote the get material function. I assumed that assigning a value to nil would work. It doesn't, so I made sure that, if the result of the decode is nil, instead of trying to assign that nil, it returns false immediately, which will propagate to the get syndrome from material function, which itself will return false, which will make it ignore the item's material for checking purposes. This was the original intention, but I wrote it wrong.
Post by: narhiril on October 02, 2013, 05:27:33 pm
I got that fixed.
Yeah, the script threw a fit over it, due to the way I wrote the get material function. I assumed that assigning a value to nil would work. It doesn't, so I made sure that, if the result of the decode is nil, instead of trying to assign that nil, it returns false immediately, which will propagate to the get syndrome from material function, which itself will return false, which will make it ignore the item's material for checking purposes. This was the original intention, but I wrote it wrong.
Hey, no worries. I'm just glad it's working now! :D
Post by: SanDiego on October 04, 2013, 08:29:24 am
Post by: SorenCool12 on October 04, 2013, 08:24:12 pm
I am thinking of implementing a concept that hasn't really been used in other mods thus far (that I know of), but is a common element of many video games.its cool that well i think you studied a lot for this mod cool mod btw
I am considering implementing more creatures with a "rare drop." That is, 9 out of 10 or even 49 out of 50 will die and leave corpses, as usual, but the occasional one will instead drop an item of some sort. This is possible and well within my ability to do using the caste system, but I am wondering how people feel about it. Should I reserve this sort of thing for the occasional easter egg, or would you like to see more of it? I don't want "farming" for drops to be necessary, because that's not particularly rewarding in my opinion, so these items will be purely fun in nature - perhaps in the form of a unique (but statistically unremarkable) weapon or armor/clothing item. I'm thinking these could be great fun for adventurers as well.
Oh, and I wrote the raws for the medical dummy earlier. Silly me, I should be studying. Oh well :)
Post by: Putnam on October 05, 2013, 01:18:33 am
Post by: Meph on October 05, 2013, 11:11:23 pm
I am thinking of implementing a concept that hasn't really been used in other mods thus far (that I know of), but is a common element of many video games.
I am considering implementing more creatures with a "rare drop." That is, 9 out of 10 or even 49 out of 50 will die and leave corpses, as usual, but the occasional one will instead drop an item of some sort. This is possible and well within my ability to do using the caste system, but I am wondering how people feel about it. Should I reserve this sort of thing for the occasional easter egg, or would you like to see more of it? I don't want "farming" for drops to be necessary, because that's not particularly rewarding in my opinion, so these items will be purely fun in nature - perhaps in the form of a unique (but statistically unremarkable) weapon or armor/clothing item. I'm thinking these could be great fun for adventurers as well.
Oh, and I wrote the raws for the medical dummy earlier. Silly me, I should be studying. Oh well :)
Will you use itemcorpses for this, or extra-butcher-objects? The first one replaces the corpse, which is why I deleted a system I used once...
Post by: narhiril on October 06, 2013, 02:12:00 am
Post by: Meph on October 06, 2013, 12:07:23 pm
Post by: Putnam on October 06, 2013, 01:53:02 pm
Post by: narhiril on October 07, 2013, 11:07:23 am
Ran into some weird issue with autoSyndrome commands failing to execute sometimes for no discernible reason, but things seem to be *mostly* working, though I still haven't gotten an underground siege yet. I'm starting to wonder if they will actually work or not.
Post by: Meph on October 09, 2013, 06:52:15 am
Quote
Ran into some weird issue with autoSyndrome commands failing to execute sometimes for no discernible reason, but things seem to be *mostly* working, though I still haven't gotten an underground siege yet. I'm starting to wonder if they will actually work or not.Autosyndrome does not trigger when a reaction is set to repeat.
Underground sieges do work in DF, but dont know about your specific setup. they are definitly possible.
Post by: narhiril on October 09, 2013, 12:54:35 pm
QuoteRan into some weird issue with autoSyndrome commands failing to execute sometimes for no discernible reason, but things seem to be *mostly* working, though I still haven't gotten an underground siege yet. I'm starting to wonder if they will actually work or not.Autosyndrome does not trigger when a reaction is set to repeat.
Underground sieges do work in DF, but dont know about your specific setup. they are definitly possible.
Well that explains a lot. As for underground sieges, mine are generating properly but I'm not sure why they're not attacking.
Post by: Meph on October 09, 2013, 01:44:00 pm
Post by: narhiril on October 09, 2013, 02:17:44 pm
I have underground batmen, their pathfinding is broken because they can fly... most other stuff is ambushes, so dwarves run into them automatically. but now that you mention it, I have never seen an army rush up into the fort. I only know that the flee through your fort... the siege gets broken, and the siegers want to reach the map edge, but chose not to flee through the caverns, but rather try to reach the map edge on the surface. very odd.
I can't even get them to show up. Mind if I look through your raws?
Post by: Meph on October 09, 2013, 04:38:10 pm
Post by: narhiril on October 10, 2013, 08:58:46 pm
Code: [Select]
entity_grum
[OBJECT:ENTITY]
[ENTITY:GRUM_LFR]
[LAYER_LINKED]
[START_BIOME:SUBTERRANEAN_CHASM]
[BIOME_SUPPORT:SUBTERRANEAN_CHASM:2]
[CREATURE:GRUM_LFR]
[TRANSLATION:GRUM]
[INDOOR_WOOD]
[USE_CAVE_ANIMALS]
[USE_ANIMAL_PRODUCTS]
[DIGGER:ITEM_WEAPON_GRUM_HAND_DRILL]
[WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_GRUM_ROCK_CRUSHER]
[WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_GRUM_DRIVER]
[WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_GRUM_CLEAVER]
[WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_GRUM_CROSSBOW]
[AMMO:ITEM_AMMO_BOLTS]
[ARMOR:ITEM_ARMOR_BREASTPLATE:COMMON]
[ARMOR:ITEM_ARMOR_TUNIC:COMMON]
[HELM:ITEM_HELM_HELM:COMMON]
[GLOVES:ITEM_GLOVES_GAUNTLETS:COMMON]
[SHOES:ITEM_SHOES_BOOTS_LOW:COMMON]
[PANTS:ITEM_PANTS_LEGGINGS:COMMON]
[PANTS:ITEM_PANTS_GREAVES:COMMON]
[SHIELD:ITEM_SHIELD_BUCKLER]
[SIEGEAMMO:ITEM_SIEGEAMMO_BALLISTA]
[TOOL:ITEM_TOOL_JUG]
[TOOL:ITEM_TOOL_LARGE_POT]
[START_GROUP_NUMBER:8]
[TRAPCOMP:ITEM_TRAPCOMP_SPIKEDBALL]
[TRAPCOMP:ITEM_TRAPCOMP_MENACINGSPIKE]
[INSTRUMENT:ITEM_INSTRUMENT_DRUM]
[CLOTHING]
[SUBTERRANEAN_CLOTHING]
[CURRENCY:COPPER:1]
[CURRENCY:SILVER:2]
[CURRENCY:GOLD:5]
[TOOL:ITEM_TOOL_JUG]
[TOOL:ITEM_TOOL_LARGE_POT]
[START_GROUP_NUMBER:8]
[INSTRUMENT:ITEM_INSTRUMENT_DRUM]
[SELECT_SYMBOL:REMAINING:EARTH]
[SELECT_SYMBOL:REMAINING:WEALTH]
[SELECT_SYMBOL:REMAINING:NAME_CAVE]
[CULL_SYMBOL:ALL:DOMESTIC]
[CULL_SYMBOL:ALL:FLOWERY]
[STONE_PREF]
[AMBUSHER]
[ITEM_THIEF]
[SPHERE_ALIGNMENT:EARTH:512]
[FRIENDLY_COLOR:7:0:1]
[PROGRESS_TRIGGER_POPULATION:2]
[PROGRESS_TRIGGER_PRODUCTION:2]
[PROGRESS_TRIGGER_TRADE:2]
[PROGRESS_TRIGGER_POP_SIEGE:3]
[PROGRESS_TRIGGER_PROD_SIEGE:3]
[PROGRESS_TRIGGER_TRADE_SIEGE:3]
[ACTIVE_SEASON:SPRING]
[ACTIVE_SEASON:SUMMER]
[ACTIVE_SEASON:AUTUMN]
[ACTIVE_SEASON:WINTER]
[MAX_STARTING_CIV_NUMBER:50]
[MAX_POP_NUMBER:5000]
[MAX_SITE_POP_NUMBER:250]
[BEAST_HUNTER]
[SCOUT]
[PERMITTED_JOB:MINER]
[PERMITTED_JOB:CARPENTER]
[PERMITTED_JOB:BOWYER]
[PERMITTED_JOB:WOODCUTTER]
[PERMITTED_JOB:ENGRAVER]
[PERMITTED_JOB:MASON]
[PERMITTED_JOB:HUNTER]
[PERMITTED_JOB:TRAPPER]
[PERMITTED_JOB:FURNACE_OPERATOR]
[PERMITTED_JOB:WEAPONSMITH]
[PERMITTED_JOB:ARMORER]
[PERMITTED_JOB:BLACKSMITH]
[PERMITTED_JOB:METALCRAFTER]
[PERMITTED_JOB:WOODCRAFTER]
[PERMITTED_JOB:STONECRAFTER]
[PERMITTED_JOB:BONE_CARVER]
[PERMITTED_JOB:WEAVER]
[PERMITTED_JOB:CLOTHIER]
[PERMITTED_JOB:STRAND_EXTRACTOR]
[PERMITTED_JOB:COOK]
[PERMITTED_JOB:THRESHER]
[PERMITTED_JOB:BUTCHER]
[PERMITTED_JOB:PLANTER]
[PERMITTED_JOB:HERBALIST]
[PERMITTED_JOB:BREWER]
[PERMITTED_JOB:WOOD_BURNER]
[PERMITTED_JOB:MECHANIC]
[PERMITTED_JOB:SIEGE_ENGINEER]
[PERMITTED_JOB:SIEGE_OPERATOR]
[PERMITTED_JOB:PUMP_OPERATOR]
[PERMITTED_JOB:CLERK]
[PERMITTED_JOB:ADMINISTRATOR]
[PERMITTED_JOB:TRADER]
[PERMITTED_JOB:ARCHITECT]
[PERMITTED_JOB:DIAGNOSER]
[PERMITTED_JOB:BONE_SETTER]
[PERMITTED_JOB:SUTURER]
[PERMITTED_JOB:SURGEON]
[PERMITTED_JOB:GLAZER]
[PERMITTED_JOB:POTTER]
[PERMITTED_JOB:PRESSER]
[PERMITTED_BUILDING:SCREW_PRESS]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:MILL_SEEDS_NUTS_TO_PASTE]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:MAKE_CLAY_JUG]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:MAKE_CLAY_BRICKS]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:MAKE_CLAY_STATUE]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:MAKE_LARGE_CLAY_POT]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:MAKE_CLAY_CRAFTS]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:GLAZE_JUG]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:GLAZE_STATUE]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:GLAZE_LARGE_POT]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:GLAZE_CRAFT]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:PRESS_OIL]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:TAN_A_HIDE]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:RENDER_FAT]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:MAKE_PEARLASH]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:BITUMINOUS_COAL_TO_COKE]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:LIGNITE_TO_COKE]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:BRONZE_MAKING]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:BRONZE_MAKING2]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:BILLON_MAKING]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:BILLON_MAKING2]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:PIG_IRON_MAKING]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:STEEL_MAKING]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:STERLING_SILVER_MAKING]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:ROSE_GOLD_MAKING]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:BISMUTH_BRONZE_MAKING]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:MITHRIL_STRANDS_LFR]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:REFINE_MITHRIL]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:SMELT_MITHRIL]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:SMELT_UNBIHEXIUM]
[ETHIC:KILL_ENTITY_MEMBER:UNTHINKABLE]
[ETHIC:KILL_NEUTRAL:MISGUIDED]
[ETHIC:KILL_ENEMY:ACCEPTABLE]
[ETHIC:KILL_ANIMAL:ACCEPTABLE]
[ETHIC:KILL_PLANT:ACCEPTABLE]
[ETHIC:TORTURE_AS_EXAMPLE:JUSTIFIED_IF_EXTREME_REASON]
[ETHIC:TORTURE_FOR_INFORMATION:ACCEPTABLE]
[ETHIC:TORTURE_FOR_FUN:MISGUIDED]
[ETHIC:TORTURE_ANIMALS:MISGUIDED]
[ETHIC:TREASON:PUNISH_CAPITAL]
[ETHIC:OATH_BREAKING:JUSTIFIED_IF_EXTREME_REASON]
[ETHIC:LYING:JUSTIFIED_IF_EXTREME_REASON]
[ETHIC:VANDALISM:JUSTIFIED_IF_EXTREME_REASON]
[ETHIC:TRESPASSING:PERSONAL_MATTER]
[ETHIC:THEFT:MISGUIDED]
[ETHIC:ASSAULT:PERSONAL_MATTER]
[ETHIC:SLAVERY:PERSONAL_MATTER]
[ETHIC:EAT_SAPIENT_OTHER:PERSONAL_MATTER]
[ETHIC:EAT_SAPIENT_KILL:ACCEPTABLE]
[ETHIC:MAKE_TROPHY_SAME_RACE:MISGUIDED]
[ETHIC:MAKE_TROPHY_SAPIENT:MISGUIDED]
[ETHIC:MAKE_TROPHY_ANIMAL:ACCEPTABLE]
[POSITION:LEADER]
[NAME:governor:governors]
[NUMBER:1]
[ELECTED]
[REQUIRED_OFFICE:10000]
[RULES_FROM_LOCATION]
[MENIAL_WORK_EXEMPTION]
[PUNISHMENT_EXEMPTION]
[RESPONSIBILITY:LAW_MAKING]
[RESPONSIBILITY:MILITARY_GOALS]
[PRECEDENCE:1]
[BRAG_ON_KILL]
[CHAT_WORTHY]
[DO_NOT_CULL]
[KILL_QUEST]
[EXPORTED_IN_LEGENDS]
[COLOR:7:0:1]
[DUTY_BOUND]
[POSITION:FOREMAN]
[NAME:foreman:foremen]
[NUMBER:12]
[REQUIRED_OFFICE:5]
[SQUAD:10:enforcer:enforcers]
[RESPONSIBILITY:ATTACK_ENEMIES]
[RESPONSIBILITY:PATROL_TERRITORY]
[RESPONSIBILITY:MILITARY_STRATEGY]
[RESPONSIBILITY:LAW_ENFORCEMENT]
[APPOINTED_BY:LEADER]
[PRECEDENCE:200]
[DO_NOT_CULL]
[DUTY_BOUND]
[VARIABLE_POSITIONS:ALL]
With this, they generate and show up in the legends dump, but don't actually ambush or siege. I'll try removing the biome tokens and see what happens.
Post by: Pan on October 25, 2013, 10:25:51 am
Some of these reagents are imported, being in brackets, since I had to import the neodymium bars and some leather. Maybe thats the problem?
Edit: And after fiddling for a bit, suddenly its alright. Well, never mind then.
Just out of curiosity, has anyone else really employed spider and other t4 constructs? Sure feels like it took forever for me to get to this level (5 ingame years of micromanagement). Are they effective?
Post by: Remuthra on October 25, 2013, 01:58:49 pm
Hi everyone, I've started up an LFR fort recently, and I've managed to make it quite far up the mech tech tree. However, I've encountered a problem where I can't begin magnetic projectile research, even though I have all required reagents: copper bars, neodymium bars, iron bars, tanned hide and a stack of iron bolts. Anyone else got this?I think you need some sort of Alchemist tech advancement reagent to make those.
Some of these reagents are imported, being in brackets, since I had to import the neodymium bars and some leather. Maybe thats the problem?
Edit: And after fiddling for a bit, suddenly its alright. Well, never mind then.
Quote
Just out of curiosity, has anyone else really employed spider and other t4 constructs? Sure feels like it took forever for me to get to this level (5 ingame years of micromanagement). Are they effective?Is that a relevant question?
Post by: narhiril on October 25, 2013, 08:14:02 pm
Hi everyone, I've started up an LFR fort recently, and I've managed to make it quite far up the mech tech tree. However, I've encountered a problem where I can't begin magnetic projectile research, even though I have all required reagents: copper bars, neodymium bars, iron bars, tanned hide and a stack of iron bolts. Anyone else got this?
Some of these reagents are imported, being in brackets, since I had to import the neodymium bars and some leather. Maybe thats the problem?
Edit: And after fiddling for a bit, suddenly its alright. Well, never mind then.
Just out of curiosity, has anyone else really employed spider and other t4 constructs? Sure feels like it took forever for me to get to this level (5 ingame years of micromanagement). Are they effective?
Spiders are effective in numbers, but generally a pain to get them positioned properly. I've had some success placing them in pits and dropping foes into them or confining them to small "death chambers." As for the more advanced constructs, they're mediocre individually, but in even just a small group they can be frighteningly powerful. My current fort has four mantids and a steel tarantula guarding (pastured at) my fort's surface entrance, and they tear just about anything short of a siege to shreds with some wear and tear and occasional losses, which I import the materials to replace. I haven't had quite enough material for a mithril tarantula yet, but they have an additional attack that injects poison. They keep the trade routes open without throwing away more dwarven lives.
Constructs will really start to shine when I finish up scarabs, which will be made from steel, damascus steel, or mithril, will be war-trainable, and can be assigned to units as extremely powerful permanent bodyguards. Golems are the next logical step after scarabs, but golems will (similar to in Dragon Age lore) require a dwarf rather than a slimer to become part of the golem's interface. Golems will be substantially more powerful than scarabs, craftable from mithril, voidshard, damascus steel, or adamantite, war-trainable, and may come with different variants, each with different special abilities. And before you ask, yes, adamantine golems are going to be overpowered as hell (http://static.fjcdn.com/comments/You+think+that+s+overpowered+_497af2f3dfb11373c022daaf22b932ee.png), but it will take a massive amount of both research and raw materials to create even a single one of them.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Remuthra on October 25, 2013, 08:16:03 pm
Post by: Pan on October 26, 2013, 07:58:20 am
Is that a relevant question?
Yeah. Has anyone used them, and if so, can they vouch for their effectiveness.
Anyway, Narhiril, given the problems at the moment with the Grum and cavern races not sieging during your tests, I take it the current cavern shedim won't, either?
Post by: ArchAIngel on October 26, 2013, 12:51:58 pm
Post by: Remuthra on October 26, 2013, 12:54:03 pm
Ok, rather off topic, but that picture? I want to see that happen. Lightsabre duel with Inigo Montoya? Yes please!That's not just a lightsaber. That's the greatest lightsaber ever crafted. It's balance is perfect.
Post by: ArchAIngel on October 26, 2013, 03:02:52 pm
But is it for a six-fingered left-handed man?Ok, rather off topic, but that picture? I want to see that happen. Lightsabre duel with Inigo Montoya? Yes please!That's not just a lightsaber. That's the greatest lightsaber ever crafted. It's balance is perfect.
Post by: Remuthra on October 26, 2013, 03:09:22 pm
It's for the six-fingered Sith.But is it for a six-fingered left-handed man?Ok, rather off topic, but that picture? I want to see that happen. Lightsabre duel with Inigo Montoya? Yes please!That's not just a lightsaber. That's the greatest lightsaber ever crafted. It's balance is perfect.
Post by: Imp on October 26, 2013, 03:16:27 pm
It's for the six-fingered Sith.
Sure, I can see Inigo Montoya turning to the dark side. He essentially did, between drink and service to an evil boss who he allowed to dominate his choices.
Post by: Remuthra on October 26, 2013, 03:18:05 pm
You have failed me for the last time, Inigo. Your failure is inconceivable.It's for the six-fingered Sith.
Sure, I can see Inigo Montoya turning to the dark side. He essentially did, between drink and service to an evil boss who he allowed to dominate his choices.
Post by: SalmonGod on October 26, 2013, 04:32:44 pm
Just became a mountainhome. The Queen has arrive. Vampire Queen. She's not shy about it, either. Her title upon arrival was "Queen Vampire". With roughly 19000 kills to her name. About 12000 of them dwarves.
Oh, my.
Post by: Remuthra on October 26, 2013, 04:35:43 pm
Playing my first fort in a long time that I've managed to stick with successfully. Haven't messed with a lot of the new stuff in this mod or in 34.11.You should make some sort of palace/battle arena, deck her out, and have her practice on invaders. It's the least you can do to help reach 20000.
Just became a mountainhome. The Queen has arrive. Vampire Queen. She's not shy about it, either. Her title upon arrival was "Queen Vampire". With roughly 19000 kills to her name. About 12000 of them dwarves.
Oh, my.
Post by: SalmonGod on October 26, 2013, 04:38:20 pm
Playing my first fort in a long time that I've managed to stick with successfully. Haven't messed with a lot of the new stuff in this mod or in 34.11.You should make some sort of palace/battle arena, deck her out, and have her practice on invaders. It's the least you can do to help reach 20000.
Just became a mountainhome. The Queen has arrive. Vampire Queen. She's not shy about it, either. Her title upon arrival was "Queen Vampire". With roughly 19000 kills to her name. About 12000 of them dwarves.
Oh, my.
I think she needs some training first. She doesn't show as having any combat skills at all. All of her kills are murders. She doesn't have a single one in actual combat. But yeah... I'll have to do something with her.
Post by: Imp on October 26, 2013, 04:46:57 pm
One of the things I love about LFR - it somehow is chock full of Easter Eggs. Not just the ones Nar has added, but even 'unusual' vanilla stuff seems more common somehow, at least in my playing. And yours, it seems.Playing my first fort in a long time that I've managed to stick with successfully. Haven't messed with a lot of the new stuff in this mod or in 34.11.You should make some sort of palace/battle arena, deck her out, and have her practice on invaders. It's the least you can do to help reach 20000.
Just became a mountainhome. The Queen has arrive. Vampire Queen. She's not shy about it, either. Her title upon arrival was "Queen Vampire". With roughly 19000 kills to her name. About 12000 of them dwarves.
Oh, my.
I think she needs some training first. She doesn't show as having any combat skills at all. All of her kills are murders. She doesn't have a single one in actual combat. But yeah... I'll have to do something with her.
Post by: Thuellai on October 27, 2013, 05:21:40 pm
Native orichalcum all over the place meant I burned through a lot of the tech tree, and funded my needs with orichalcum crafts (moderate value nothin')
Unfortunately, this also meant that my 15-or-so well armed militamen got eaten alive by a pack of 20 or so shedim, including two ah tels and an ah kora.
Luckily the remaining force was small enough to be trapped and annihilated by my 'Zinger Airlock', the finest in self-perpetuating murder devices.
UNluckily, the loss of my militia caused a bit of a tantrum spiral which left the fort rather helpless when the next Shedim invasion came.
Post by: Raap on October 29, 2013, 06:28:16 am
Any ideas? All the infected dwarves have excellent moods and nothing anywhere to indicate a disease or some such. They appear to just walk randomly around the fortress, not even chasing anyone they threaten.
Post by: Meph on October 29, 2013, 08:12:42 am
I'm having a bit of a problem. I'm a few years in and things are relatively smooth, but a few weeks/months after loading my game my dwarves will start attacking each other. For no apparent reason, a few of them will become threatening to the other dwarves, scaring them away, and eventually get themselves killed by threatening one of my soldiers. Soon after, more people will be 'infected' by this whatever, and eventually it all goes to hell.http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=DF2012:Faction&redirect=no#Loyalty_cascade (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=DF2012:Faction&redirect=no#Loyalty_cascade)
Any ideas? All the infected dwarves have excellent moods and nothing anywhere to indicate a disease or some such. They appear to just walk randomly around the fortress, not even chasing anyone they threaten.
Dont know what started it, but this is your explanation.
Post by: Raap on October 29, 2013, 09:12:32 am
The first fighting report I see has to do with a tame Watcher attacking some of the other animals in my pasture. At the time I'm also slaughtering some stuff from that pasture. It's right after the watcher attacks that it all starts, though I'm still not sure how it relates to an Engraver and a Planter, the two people I can find who have declared war on my(and their) civ.
*edit*
Or not. I just noticed that I suddenly and completely lost control over a couple of dwarves. As in, I stopped being able to see their skills and set jobs. Only lasted for a couple of seconds, but it was enough to have them attack another dwarf. Then, just as soon as it came, they reverted back to their normal selves. This didn't appear to be related to loyalty; both before and after the incident, they were members of the correct civ. It might have triggered the loyalty cascade though, if they attacked someone while 'converted', then got attacked back after reverting.
But I've no idea what caused the temporary conversion in the first place. Is there something in the mod that could cause this?
Post by: Putnam on October 29, 2013, 03:00:24 pm
Post by: greycat on October 29, 2013, 05:45:10 pm
Post by: Raap on October 29, 2013, 06:08:05 pm
Post by: SalmonGod on October 29, 2013, 09:08:51 pm
Post by: narhiril on October 30, 2013, 12:29:21 pm
I had this happen in my current fort, too. Massive fight broke out suddenly in the middle of my residential zone. I thought the riot was going to spread and wipe out everything. Luckily, everyone spontaneously got over it after only a few deaths.
I'm glad to hear this is actually working. Honestly, I didn't expect that little feature to work out nearly as well as it did. When I first started playing around with it, I was afraid it might be too ambitious to do with interactions alone and that some unforeseen problem would force me to scrap it. Luckily, the [OPPOSED_TO_LIFE] tag has some special behavior associated with it, and I got it so that exposing and killing a saboteur doesn't cause a loyalty cascade. Leaving one alone however, just might.
Post by: SalmonGod on October 30, 2013, 06:37:46 pm
I had this happen in my current fort, too. Massive fight broke out suddenly in the middle of my residential zone. I thought the riot was going to spread and wipe out everything. Luckily, everyone spontaneously got over it after only a few deaths.
I'm glad to hear this is actually working. Honestly, I didn't expect that little feature to work out nearly as well as it did. When I first started playing around with it, I was afraid it might be too ambitious to do with interactions alone and that some unforeseen problem would force me to scrap it. Luckily, the [OPPOSED_TO_LIFE] tag has some special behavior associated with it, and I got it so that exposing and killing a saboteur doesn't cause a loyalty cascade. Leaving one alone however, just might.
It was really weird...
I just noticed a bunch of cancellation spam and tracked it to this one dwarf that was wandering around making everyone upset. I tried to order my military to kill him (not thinking about potential loyalty cascade), but they wouldn't accept the kill order. So I stationed them next to him, and they attacked and killed him... but then everyone nearby started fighting each other. A few dwarves died as I scrambled trying to quarantine that floor and get everyone sane burrowed somewhere with supplies to wait it out. Hand-picked everyone who wasn't involved in the fight to a burrow, but nobody listened. Made another burrow and assigned the entire fort, thinking the rioters wouldn't listen anyway, and right then the fight just spontaneously dispersed. I think there were even a couple dwarves that were fighting each other who just stopped.
Not sure if that's behaving as you hoped or not :P I'm not really clear on what happened. I've never had a real large-scale loyalty cascade, but it didn't seem to match the ones I've read about.
Post by: narhiril on October 30, 2013, 11:18:51 pm
I had this happen in my current fort, too. Massive fight broke out suddenly in the middle of my residential zone. I thought the riot was going to spread and wipe out everything. Luckily, everyone spontaneously got over it after only a few deaths.
I'm glad to hear this is actually working. Honestly, I didn't expect that little feature to work out nearly as well as it did. When I first started playing around with it, I was afraid it might be too ambitious to do with interactions alone and that some unforeseen problem would force me to scrap it. Luckily, the [OPPOSED_TO_LIFE] tag has some special behavior associated with it, and I got it so that exposing and killing a saboteur doesn't cause a loyalty cascade. Leaving one alone however, just might.
It was really weird...
I just noticed a bunch of cancellation spam and tracked it to this one dwarf that was wandering around making everyone upset. I tried to order my military to kill him (not thinking about potential loyalty cascade), but they wouldn't accept the kill order. So I stationed them next to him, and they attacked and killed him... but then everyone nearby started fighting each other. A few dwarves died as I scrambled trying to quarantine that floor and get everyone sane burrowed somewhere with supplies to wait it out. Hand-picked everyone who wasn't involved in the fight to a burrow, but nobody listened. Made another burrow and assigned the entire fort, thinking the rioters wouldn't listen anyway, and right then the fight just spontaneously dispersed. I think there were even a couple dwarves that were fighting each other who just stopped.
Not sure if that's behaving as you hoped or not :P I'm not really clear on what happened. I've never had a real large-scale loyalty cascade, but it didn't seem to match the ones I've read about.
That's behaving exactly as I had hoped. One of the things that saboteurs do is incite fights, but the fights don't always break out immediately (as that would make it too easy to identify the saboteur). It sounds like some of the fights didn't break out until after the saboteur was killed and the surviving fighters lived long enough to have snapped out of it.
Left alone, saboteurs will cause dwarves that they interact with to occasionally go berserk for a short time, which can be particularly devastating if the dwarf is a military unit. They will also poison civilization members, causing odd and crippling symptoms that only a very talented diagnostician will be able to recognize as a deliberate poisoning.
The only concrete way to identify a saboteur is to have a nearby watcher, which will expose them with an interaction. Note that once exposed, a saboteur will go for broke and attack anything nearby - which usually means that they will break straight for the watcher, which is extremely fragile and doesn't stand a chance on its own. Exposed saboteurs will have (EXPOSED) appended to their names. Killing an exposed saboteur will not cause negative thoughts in their friends and relatives.
Post by: SalmonGod on October 30, 2013, 11:23:59 pm
It's the perfect sort of thing for challenging an established fort.
Post by: narhiril on October 31, 2013, 12:24:19 am
Post by: Pan on October 31, 2013, 02:04:12 am
... break straight for the watcher, which is extremely fragile and doesn't stand a chance on its own...
Actually, I've found watchers to be rather resilient to attacks, given they have only a body. Some watchers somehow got out of the fortress once during a siege (I think they can fly? Not sure.) and were pummeled by a pack of shedim for quite some time before they eventually managed to kill it. Same thing with zingers, which works really well in my favor since I pasture them in range of marksdwarf towers to spot ambushes. Still, I suppose zingers and watchers being able to tank so well is not intended?
Made a bronze spider today. Woo hoo! Glad to see this working at last, though the mechanic does tend to drop all clothing, haha. Just out of curiousity, Narhiril, what is the spider deployment hub supposed to look like, and how does it work, lore-wise? Looks like a purple gem. ???
On a side note, I find it hard to abandon LFR fortresses that I get bored of, given that I will need to tech all over again. Looks like this mod is helping me out with my commitment issues, haha.
Post by: narhiril on October 31, 2013, 02:56:50 pm
Made a bronze spider today. Woo hoo! Glad to see this working at last, though the mechanic does tend to drop all clothing, haha. Just out of curiousity, Narhiril, what is the spider deployment hub supposed to look like, and how does it work, lore-wise? Looks like a purple gem. ???
That "drop all clothing" thing might be a thing of the past soon with some new DFHack magic. The deployment hub is... kind of a work in progress. I should probably change it to look like a box or something.
Post by: Jilladilla on October 31, 2013, 03:06:38 pm
running commands from reactions (oh boy, THIS will be fun).
I don't know whether to be excited or terrified...
Post by: Putnam on October 31, 2013, 03:09:24 pm
however, you can run commands from syndromes in r4, and they can affect the creature who got the syndrome, so... hehe, it's gon be good the kind of stuff you can come up with there.
For my drow mod, I made a "finger of death" interaction that runs a command that causes the affected unit to die instantly of old age. If they can't die of old age, they bleed to death. If they can't do that, they just disappear. It kills anything.
Post by: narhiril on October 31, 2013, 04:03:33 pm
You were able to run commands from reactions back in r3 with autoSyndrome...
however, you can run commands from syndromes in r4, and they can affect the creature who got the syndrome, so... hehe, it's gon be good the kind of stuff you can come up with there.
For my drow mod, I made a "finger of death" interaction that runs a command that causes the affected unit to die instantly of old age. If they can't die of old age, they bleed to death. If they can't do that, they just disappear. It kills anything.
I'm going to have to take a look at that sometime. *devilish grin*
So, is there a way to spawn creatures this way? And if so, is there a way to set them as friend or foe (besides using OPPOSED_TO_LIFE)?
Post by: Putnam on October 31, 2013, 04:34:44 pm
Post by: narhiril on November 06, 2013, 11:40:39 am
You can spawn units with spawnunit (https://gist.github.com/Putnam3145/7257577) by Warmist (linked my version because it doesn't cause death-by-old-age on worlds older than 100 years) and, if the unit has a historical figure, you can add them as an enemy of the state while simultaneously removing them as a member (to prevent loyalty cascades).
I'll be playing around with this. I may be able to use it to clean up the dwarven spider reactions so that they don't require that weird transformation workaround. At the very least, this will allow me to do summoning. xD
Post by: SalmonGod on November 06, 2013, 01:36:23 pm
Post by: narhiril on November 06, 2013, 03:00:03 pm
Hey narhiril, do you have any plans to make use of the plugin that allows creatures to dig or tear down constructions?
I was planning to make it optional. Obviously, that plugin changes the game quite a bit and makes defense much, much harder. Some people are into that, and power to them, but some are struggling as-is and some are perfectly happy with the way things are now. I'm going to be testing it out on my next build.
Post by: SalmonGod on November 10, 2013, 10:19:56 pm
Post by: narhiril on November 10, 2013, 11:42:59 pm
Is it likely there will be one last LFR release before the next big DF release?
Definitely at least one. All this current update is waiting on is testing a few DFHack dependent reactions and finishing a few graphics.
Post by: narhiril on November 11, 2013, 12:12:32 pm
Still no conclusive proof that grum attacks actually work, but that's been a nightmare to try and test. At the very least, mythical weapons work. Most of the mythical weapons in this release have fairly simple effects, but some are very cool and there are more complex ones coming down the pipe.
Right now we've got the following effects, in addition to the racial weapon bonuses:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
: Prevents attribute rust.Post by: Remuthra on November 11, 2013, 01:17:57 pm
Well, I've got itemsyndrome, autoSyndrome, and trueTransformation working properly in r4. There are some things I'd like to play around with using syndromeTrigger, and I haven't got spawnunit working yet, but since neither of those are necessary for this release, I'm going to push those back and try to get some sort of release up by Friday.Have you considered temporarily modifying the Grum files to attack almost instantly?
Still no conclusive proof that grum attacks actually work, but that's been a nightmare to try and test. At the very least, mythical weapons work. Most of the mythical weapons in this release have fairly simple effects, but some are very cool and there are more complex ones coming down the pipe.
Right now we've got the following effects, in addition to the racial weapon bonuses:Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: narhiril on November 11, 2013, 01:27:54 pm
Have you considered temporarily modifying the Grum files to attack almost instantly?
I've got that set up for one more big test fort. Last night's testing session I was tearing my hair out over getting all of the plugins to work with DFHack r4 - autoSyndrome had its raw component changed and itemSyndrome had a bug that Putnam found and fixed. It's all working now, though. I think. We'll find out, I guess.
Post by: Putnam on November 11, 2013, 02:11:03 pm
It won't affect its operation on your end, but it's something to keep in mind.
Post by: SalmonGod on November 11, 2013, 06:14:53 pm
Post by: greycat on November 11, 2013, 08:55:11 pm
I'm going to push those back and try to get some sort of release up by Friday.
Oh, nice! I mean, don't wreck yourself trying to stick to a fixed schedule if things aren't quite ready by then, but this is great news.
Post by: narhiril on November 18, 2013, 04:07:02 pm
...Though I did have time for some new easter eggs, so it wasn't a total washout of a weekend.
Post by: SalmonGod on November 18, 2013, 05:45:04 pm
Post by: narhiril on November 23, 2013, 06:59:54 pm
Post by: Meph on November 23, 2013, 07:06:24 pm
Post by: narhiril on November 23, 2013, 07:18:35 pm
The force event script does not work on layer linked (or thieving) civs, so you cant test it that way, but they should show up in legends. Have you checked legends viewer for the grum?
They do show up in legends. I just have never actually seen them show up in fortress mode.
Post by: narhiril on November 29, 2013, 11:53:58 am
Post by: narhiril on December 02, 2013, 11:15:14 am
Here's the old graphic, blown up. Looks... recognizable, at least, but when zoomed out, it looks very lanky and very awkwardly posed. This was one of the first graphics I did, so I guess that's to be expected.
(http://i.imgur.com/HuoYCcG.png)
Here's the new one. Smaller, more in tune with the creature size, and with a better pose and proportions. I also did a child graphic, so those deep wolf pups will actually be distinguishable now. Background is transparent in game.
(http://i.imgur.com/lb4MAi0.png)
As we somehow managed to have a four-way tie for the poll, I guess I've got four projects to work on next. :D
Post by: Imp on December 02, 2013, 01:58:07 pm
A secret plague of mythical technology? :-X
Plaguing secrets about technological myths? ???
Post by: narhiril on December 02, 2013, 02:15:25 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
A secret plague of mythical technology? :-X
Be careful what you wish for.
Post by: SalmonGod on December 02, 2013, 08:12:17 pm
Post by: greycat on December 02, 2013, 10:48:38 pm
Post by: Morhem on December 03, 2013, 10:02:49 am
Also:
"Half-eaten Corpse Child has died of old age."
This thing REALLY freaked me out. I think I had a bad dream becouse of it.
Post by: Remuthra on December 03, 2013, 02:54:48 pm
I dont know if its fixed already, but shedim sometimes bring animals... fight with them, and leave.That's supposed to happen :P. It's the Shedim Intimidation Combat Effectiveness Tactic (They get a buff from eating something on the field.), though sometimes they decide not to spoil the intimidating effect of devouring things outside your base by actually attacking.
Also:
"Half-eaten Corpse Child has died of old age."
This thing REALLY freaked me out. I think I had a bad dream becouse of it.
Post by: SalmonGod on December 08, 2013, 02:03:34 pm
Post by: Remuthra on December 08, 2013, 02:07:10 pm
Post by: narhiril on December 08, 2013, 07:02:05 pm
Possible bug with the new release: the game crashes every time I try to export map/gen info from legends.
This is not something I've been able to replicate. If you don't mind, could you upload one of the worlds that is doing this so I may take a look?
Post by: Putnam on December 08, 2013, 07:04:10 pm
Post by: SalmonGod on December 08, 2013, 07:24:38 pm
I did make some minor modifications, but nothing that I would expect to cause this issue. I added in the Bloodwinery and Leather Upgrade mini-mods, and removed [HAS_NERVES] from everything.
Post by: narhiril on December 08, 2013, 08:45:29 pm
My guess was DFHack also. I'll upload a save in an hour or so.
I did make some minor modifications, but nothing that I would expect to cause this issue. I added in the Bloodwinery and Leather Upgrade mini-mods, and removed [HAS_NERVES] from everything.
Those shouldn't have caused something like that. Like Putnam said, it's probably something wonky with DFHack.
Post by: greycat on December 08, 2013, 09:18:36 pm
Alas, I forgot to remove the foundry files from the raws before world gen, so most stones are marked "economic"... but I guess I can live with that for now.
Post by: SalmonGod on December 08, 2013, 09:27:34 pm
Post by: narhiril on December 09, 2013, 03:45:58 am
Here's the save (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=8201)
This save gave me no trouble exporting everything from legends. Might I ask what OS you are using?
Post by: SalmonGod on December 09, 2013, 07:25:07 am
Here's the save (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=8201)
This save gave me no trouble exporting everything from legends. Might I ask what OS you are using?
Win 7 x64
Post by: greycat on December 09, 2013, 10:25:52 pm
Then I managed to generate world, embark, and survive three seasons.
After that, I managed to screw up my attempt to divert some magma into a cistern. One of my miners was incinerated before he could get a wall up, and the entire forge area was flooded with earth's blood. This included my only anvil, and most of the (iron) armor that I had made using charcoal.
Then in the spring, the elves came. Did I mention we're at war with the elves? I was completely unable to fight them off, with almost no weapons or armor. After they killed a third of my dwarves, I just abandoned in disgrace. I'll try again later.
Post by: lukstra on December 11, 2013, 04:25:07 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: narhiril on December 11, 2013, 06:47:16 pm
Any hints on fighting a Rakshasa?Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Wow, that's something you don't see every day. They can be struck down and disposed of like any other undead, but it sounds like that would be a pretty massive operation.
If you can get a few decently equipped soldiers out there, they'll take care of them. Rakshasa illusions are just that - illusions. They pretty much die if something sneezes at them, and only exist to distract you from the real target.
Post by: lukstra on December 12, 2013, 10:47:06 pm
-EDIT-
However, this poses the question: Could capturing a Rakshasa allow this process to be automated in order to provide quick training?
Post by: MDFification on December 13, 2013, 02:10:56 am
Post by: greycat on December 14, 2013, 10:19:42 pm
In the winter at the end of our second year, my expedition leader was sleeping, with the meowkin diplomat in her quarters, waiting for her to wake up and finish their meeting. Shortly afterward, the meowkin was seen storming out of the fortress in disappointment, and a mayor was elected. The corpse of my former expedition leader was found, drained of blood. There were no witnesses.
I built a slab to memoralize her, and it says on the slab that she was "drained of blood by the dwarf vampire Lorbam Domainmined". Needless to say, none of my dwarves go by that name.
I looked at Vucar again, and it said that she was suffering from alcohol deprivation. Well, that was enough evidence for me. I assigned her to be the military captain of a brand new squad, with no uniform, replacing clothing -- which left her completely naked. I sent her into the cavern and erected a wall behind her. There wasn't any exploration to do, so I had her station herself in a medium-sized chamber. A giant mole wandered by, so I had her attack and kill the mole, which she did with a single punch to the head. After that, nothing at all happened -- no other creatures wandered by.
Eventually the mole started to decompose, and she became unhappy due to the miasma, and her lack of shoes and clothing. After a while, she went berserk.
I stationed a squad of axes and a squad of crossbows in the tunnel leading to the point where I walled up the cavern, and deconstructed the wall. I thought perhaps Vucar would charge us, but she didn't. She simply stayed in her little cave.
So, I told my military to advance toward her, to force the confrontation. Now, this is where things became interesting:
Quote
The militia commander blocks The spinning ice!
The Dwarf Thresher elementalist hurls a ball of fire!
The Dwarf Thresher elementalist throws a stone!
The militia commander blocks The spinning siltstone!
The militia commander is taken by surprise by the deafening thunder!
At this point, the moss of the cavern floor was on fire. The militia commander was the first to arrive, and was caught in the blaze, and died shortly afterward:
Quote
The Dwarf Thresher elementalist grabs The militia commander by the -sheep leather waterskin- with her left lower arm!
The Dwarf Thresher elementalist punches The militia commander in the head with her right hand, bruising the muscle, jamming the skull through the brain and tearing the brain!
Sirab Kataklor, Axedwarf has been struck down!
The second axedwarf to arrive on the scene, Doren Ilirilrom, was some distance behind, and so was not caught in the spreading fire. Vucar charged toward her, hurling more projectiles. A third axedwarf, Kogan Usenber, also arrived on the scene, and the three fought just outside the flames.
Quote
The Axedwarf hacks The Dwarf Thresher elementalist in the right foot with his -bismuth bronze battle axe-, tearing apart the fat!
The -bismuth bronze battle axe- has lodged firmly in the wound!
The Axedwarf charges at The Dwarf Thresher elementalist!
The Axedwarf hacks The Dwarf Thresher elementalist in the right foot with her (-steel battle axe-), tearing apart the muscle!
Many nerves have been severed!
The Axedwarf collides with The Dwarf Thresher elementalist!
The Axedwarf bounces backward!
The Dwarf Thresher elementalist falls over.
The Axedwarf hacks The Dwarf Thresher elementalist in the left hand with her (-steel battle axe-) and the severed part sails off in an arc!
The Dwarf Thresher elementalist attacks The Axedwarf but She jumps away!
The Axedwarf hacks The Dwarf Thresher elementalist in the upper body from behind with his -bismuth bronze battle axe-, tearing the muscle and bruising the left lung!
The Axedwarf hacks The Dwarf Thresher elementalist in the lower body from behind with his -bismuth bronze battle axe-, tearing the muscle!
The Dwarf Thresher elementalist punches The Axedwarf in the right upper arm with her right hand, bruising the muscle through the ☼winding spire fiber cloak☼!
The Axedwarf hacks The Dwarf Thresher elementalist in the left lower leg from behind with his -bismuth bronze battle axe-, tearing apart the muscle!
A motor nerve has been severed!
The -bismuth bronze battle axe- has lodged firmly in the wound!
The Axedwarf hacks The Dwarf Thresher in the head with her (-steel battle axe-) and the severed part flies off in an arc!
With the flames still spreading, I ordered the squads to fall back to the tunnel leading into the caverns (several Z levels away), to wait for the fire to die out. Later, the bodies will be retrieved and interred, if possible.
Post by: lukstra on December 15, 2013, 12:02:02 am
Post by: narhiril on December 15, 2013, 12:07:17 am
You let a vampire elementalist go berserk and die? So far I've never seen an elementalist migrant, not to mention one that also is a vampire. Before now I didn't even know it could happen. She would be been an awesome one-dwarf army!
They're quite rare, and possess weak elemental powers from fire, air, water, and earth (weak being relative to the elemental ritual units). They don't build any towers, though, due to not having any reanimation abilities. Right now that's a hardcoded behavior.
Post by: lukstra on December 16, 2013, 02:36:56 pm
The image of the unit list:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
The image of the ambush itself (the background is blood on snow [evil region - blood rain])
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: MDFification on December 16, 2013, 02:47:06 pm
So... my fortress was chugging along normally, ignoring the undead crawling around outside, when I got the message: "An ambush. Curse them!" Zooming to the location, I saw some grizzly bears, okapi and horses, all of them named. There are no "conventional invaders" that I can see. What the hell?
The image of the unit list:Spoiler (click to show/hide)
The image of the ambush itself (the background is blood on snow [evil region - blood rain])Spoiler (click to show/hide)
My guess would be that's an ordinary ambush that brought trained animals and mounts for whatever reason. So the invaders are still hidden, but their animals aren't stealthed.
That or the Okapi and the Horses have teamed up and are en route to feed you to their war bears.
Post by: lukstra on December 16, 2013, 03:14:20 pm
EDIT:
A cascade of ambush messages went off. Currently there are about 80 meowkin invaders! So much for a race that: "see war as an obstacle
to profit and fun."
Post by: narhiril on December 17, 2013, 01:56:03 am
An instant after un-pausing, another ambush message went off, revealing meowkins riding the animals. Strange that the animals, excluding the riders, are seen first.
EDIT:
A cascade of ambush messages went off. Currently there are about 80 meowkin invaders! So much for a race that: "see war as an obstacle
to profit and fun."
Evidently they see you and your fields of blood as a bigger obstacle. ;)
Post by: MDFification on December 17, 2013, 08:15:35 am
That or they've realized that killing you and taking your stuff would lead to massive profit and !!FUN!!...An instant after un-pausing, another ambush message went off, revealing meowkins riding the animals. Strange that the animals, excluding the riders, are seen first.
EDIT:
A cascade of ambush messages went off. Currently there are about 80 meowkin invaders! So much for a race that: "see war as an obstacle
to profit and fun."
Evidently they see you and your fields of blood as a bigger obstacle. ;)
Post by: Golbolco on January 02, 2014, 06:24:56 pm
Post by: greycat on January 02, 2014, 08:45:17 pm
Post by: Golbolco on January 03, 2014, 08:15:57 am
Post by: Remuthra on January 03, 2014, 12:11:38 pm
Post by: greycat on January 03, 2014, 07:19:01 pm
Post by: Remuthra on January 03, 2014, 07:26:02 pm
Post by: Golbolco on January 04, 2014, 10:32:51 am
Post by: Remuthra on January 04, 2014, 10:59:37 am
Post by: narhiril on January 05, 2014, 10:22:02 am
Nope, just looked in the raws, and they have no grazer tag.
I decided not to make them grazers because having war animals that need to graze is really, really annoying to micromanage.
Post by: greycat on January 15, 2014, 10:26:15 pm
Quote
10th Felsite, 129: Evaluated
10th Felsite, 129: Evaluated
12th Felsite, 129: Diagnosed with runic defender
12th Felsite, 129: Evaluated
...
Post by: narhiril on January 16, 2014, 08:13:41 pm
Here's something weird: one of my dwarves is in traction, and is being diagnosed frequently (all normal so far -- I've seen the same in vanilla). But one of the diagnoses is odd:Quote10th Felsite, 129: Evaluated
10th Felsite, 129: Evaluated
12th Felsite, 129: Diagnosed with runic defender
12th Felsite, 129: Evaluated
...
That's the behind-the-scenes syndrome that handles the dwarven racial bonus for wielding a runic defender (increased toughness). One of your doctors just happened to be a talented enough diagnostician to pick it out. It's nothing to worry about. If you force the dwarf to drop his runic defender, it should go away, but it isn't harmful, so I wouldn't worry about it.
If it helps you, think of the doctor perfoming an exam, exclaiming "I do say, I think you've got a runic defender," and then all of his colleagues looking at him like he's a complete buffoon.
Post by: weegth on January 27, 2014, 04:39:37 am
Post by: narhiril on January 28, 2014, 10:15:58 am
Ran into a Jagged Crystal Dragon, he seems to be unkillable - there are several pages of messages "The Axe Lord hacks The Jagged Crystal Dragon in the head with his -damascus steel battle axe-, but the attack passes right through!". Is this working as intended? Had to kill him with dfhack.
No, this is not working as intended. Please post your errorlog (errorlog.txt in your DF directory). This is either a tissue definition problem or a very rare bug.
Post by: weegth on January 28, 2014, 02:05:26 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Putnam on January 28, 2014, 02:41:32 pm
Post by: weegth on January 28, 2014, 03:26:16 pm
It's possible that the dragon itself is too big--perhaps remove variation in size.Had the same idea, and you are spot on - created bunch of dragons, checked size with gm-editor - all bugged ones have negative sizes:
(http://i.imgur.com/BBHPSew.png)
What's strange is that status screen says this one is average in size, even though some gigantic ones aren't bugged.
EDIT: Further testing shows that exact same bug occurs for giant sperm whales. However, vanilla dragons seem to work fine (even though they are bigger than JCD) - probably because they never grow old enough! Gm-editor shows that dragons generated in arena are far from their maximum possible size, mostly being 150-200 years old. Guessing further, this is because of integer overflow somewhere - last four numbers in image above equal -2^31. If so, this is a DF bug, and modding in big creatures should be avoided until it's fixed - at least unless they only grow to bugged size very slowly - then we can say they grew so powerful mundane weapons can no longer harm them.
EDIT 2: Nope, it's more complicated than that. Can't seem to reproduce this with normal dragons by making them mature to full size fast.
EDIT 3: Turns out removing MAXAGE token fixes this (out of 60 JCDs not a single one was bugged). This probably makes them immortal, but looks like that was intended anyway.
EDIT 4: Did a bit more testing, and MAXAGE is indeed the culprit - DF spawns creatures with age in some range like [0:MAXAGE], and large value causes integer overflow while calculating size. If MAXAGE is not specified, birth_year is somewhere between -150 and -300 - no overflow.
Statistics on 100 JCD with maxage:
(http://i.imgur.com/7lRzpM2.png)
And without:
(http://i.imgur.com/d3iBqE7.png)
Resolved! 8)
Post by: Remuthra on January 28, 2014, 03:39:10 pm
Post by: narhiril on January 29, 2014, 03:59:46 pm
It's possible that the dragon itself is too big--perhaps remove variation in size.Had the same idea, and you are spot on - created bunch of dragons, checked size with gm-editor - all bugged ones have negative sizes:
(http://i.imgur.com/BBHPSew.png)
What's strange is that status screen says this one is average in size, even though some gigantic ones aren't bugged.
EDIT: Further testing shows that exact same bug occurs for giant sperm whales. However, vanilla dragons seem to work fine (even though they are bigger than JCD) - probably because they never grow old enough! Gm-editor shows that dragons generated in arena are far from their maximum possible size, mostly being 150-200 years old. Guessing further, this is because of integer overflow somewhere - last four numbers in image above equal -2^31. If so, this is a DF bug, and modding in big creatures should be avoided until it's fixed - at least unless they only grow to bugged size very slowly - then we can say they grew so powerful mundane weapons can no longer harm them.
EDIT 2: Nope, it's more complicated than that. Can't seem to reproduce this with normal dragons by making them mature to full size fast.
EDIT 3: Turns out removing MAXAGE token fixes this (out of 60 JCDs not a single one was bugged). This probably makes them immortal, but looks like that was intended anyway.
EDIT 4: Did a bit more testing, and MAXAGE is indeed the culprit - DF spawns creatures with age in some range like [0:MAXAGE], and large value causes integer overflow while calculating size. If MAXAGE is not specified, birth_year is somewhere between -150 and -300 - no overflow.
Statistics on 100 JCD with maxage:
(http://i.imgur.com/7lRzpM2.png)
And without:
(http://i.imgur.com/d3iBqE7.png)
Resolved! 8)
I'll go ahead and comb through the larger creatures and take out those tokens then. Off the top of my head, I can think of about a dozen of them that probably need to be changed. This seems to be a little more complicated, though, as greater demons sometimes still bug out and don't have a maxage token, even though their size is less than 2^31.
Post by: weegth on January 30, 2014, 12:18:09 am
I'll go ahead and comb through the larger creatures and take out those tokens then. Off the top of my head, I can think of about a dozen of them that probably need to be changed. This seems to be a little more complicated, though, as greater demons sometimes still bug out and don't have a maxage token, even though their size is less than 2^31.Yeah, it's a bit more complicated - doesn't happen just if (creature_age*creature_size)>2^31, larger values are required, otherwise vanilla dragons would be affected. Greater demons may be too big regardless of age - with sizes like 1,9e9 and 2e9 just genetic variation of 125 would push them past 2^31.
Post by: mober6 on February 02, 2014, 09:01:57 pm
Also, do vines of xandu even exist? I have been creating worlds with only savage/good lands, and I have yet to come across them, although I have found the heavenly spices, and very very rarely the alcohol.
Also, it would be really nice to know what labor is needed for the ritual tree, because it is nearly impossible to get the right person on the altar you want.
There is also a chance of someone showing up as just a legendary savant? I thought the savants were supposed to start with really high abilities in one job
Post by: Remuthra on February 02, 2014, 09:05:47 pm
Just a question, what exactly does shimmering sand do? AFAIK it just acts like regular sandI think shimmering sand is just a type of sand, like red or black.
Post by: weegth on February 03, 2014, 01:26:34 am
Also, it would be really nice to know what labor is needed for the ritual tree, because it is nearly impossible to get the right person on the altar you want.They use concentration, which can't be turned off. Use profiles.
Post by: greycat on February 03, 2014, 08:00:10 pm
Also, it would be really nice to know what labor is needed for the ritual tree, because it is nearly impossible to get the right person on the altar you want.They use concentration, which can't be turned off. Use profiles.
Yup, that's what I did. I profile the "workshop" (temple) so only my designated Priests can work there, until I've got the symbols I want. Then when I want someone to use the symbol, I profile it so only that person can work there. Then swap back again afterward.
Post by: astianax on February 04, 2014, 08:32:26 pm
when it's found as a layer on embark, or when you buy it from caravans (or on embark), shimmering sand acts just like any other sand. it's actually designed for the savage desert equivalent of evil weather for lfr. it'll potentially blind those caught in a cloud of it. most of us will only be introduced to it as layer material or from caravans or such
vines of xanadu, i've seen, but may have been from my altered versions of the plant-creation reactions. although, honestly, i haven't played df in a while (waiting anxiously for the new update!). do know i've gotten access to their products from caravans before, though.
the ritual tree stuff was already answered, and i pretty much do exactly what greycat does. although, i tend to give my alchemist and priest dwarves custom titles so i can easily figure out which one(s) get access to what workshop
and, for the 'legendary savant' dwarves, that just means they're the alchemy savants. since any other savants will show up as legendary whatever their savant skill is, but alchemist won't show up as a profession
Post by: bluntobj on February 10, 2014, 05:16:40 pm
This tile does not process in the Archeology Lab after it has been mined as the other Vanguard materials do. The command to process a Vanguard Weapons Cache is available, and requires a Weapons Cache as the ingredient. Is there an intermediate step I am missing to process the Armory into a weapons Cache?
Thanks much!
Post by: Jimexmore on February 10, 2014, 11:23:34 pm
.34.11 version
Post by: narhiril on February 11, 2014, 02:05:41 am
Regarding the new Vanguard tile : Ancient Vanguard Armory
This tile does not process in the Archeology Lab after it has been mined as the other Vanguard materials do. The command to process a Vanguard Weapons Cache is available, and requires a Weapons Cache as the ingredient. Is there an intermediate step I am missing to process the Armory into a weapons Cache?
Thanks much!
Huh. There should be, but it's missing - that file must have gotten reverted on accident somewhere. I'll be sure to fix that.
How do I gen a world without it crashing.
.34.11 version
I'm not sure what causes this, but try generating a world with a very short history.
Post by: Paranatural on February 11, 2014, 08:18:11 pm
Post by: Remuthra on February 11, 2014, 08:38:48 pm
Hey, quick question. I have a couple of peasants with 'Legendary Savant' as a skill. I have some other Savants, and Armor and a Weapon one. But These seem...generic?Legendary=Alchemist
What, did you expect a dwarf good at only one skill to not be generic?
Post by: Paranatural on February 25, 2014, 09:26:05 am
Post by: narhiril on February 25, 2014, 09:28:22 am
Post by: Paranatural on February 25, 2014, 11:40:31 am
Post by: mober6 on March 01, 2014, 01:47:54 am
The menu, with normal DFhack allows you to hit [l] and get a list of all dwarfs happy/labor, and generally allows the game to be played much faster
Post by: Pan on March 02, 2014, 05:51:08 am
Edit: By which I mean LFR things... but feel free to throw in something about your day :D
Post by: Remuthra on March 02, 2014, 08:37:30 am
Do you happen to be responsible for this?
Spoiler: Legends of Forgotten Writers (click to show/hide)
Post by: narhiril on March 03, 2014, 07:08:33 am
So… how're things going, Narhiril? :)
Edit: By which I mean LFR things... but feel free to throw in something about your day :D
Unfortunately, it's midterm season, so I've not got a whole lot to share at the moment. I'm going to push to finish the tech tree with the next update and finally get golems working. I've also been testing a couple of plagues. >:]
Hey, Narhiril?
Do you happen to be responsible for this?Spoiler: Legends of Forgotten Writers (click to show/hide)
Shockingly, no, I'm not.
Post by: Ashenblaze on March 07, 2014, 11:04:25 pm
While I'm here I'll just narrate how I indirectly met the Grum:
Having breached the ceiling of the 2nd cavern, I noticed some devourer silk. With a measly militia injured by a recent goblin ambush, I wanted to strengthen my army for a while before I explore what lies in the 2nd cavern.
Having forgotten all about the 2nd cavern, 2-3 months passed and an ambush was detected in the unexplored regions of the 2nd cavern VERY near the area I can see from the hole I made in the ceiling.
I waited for somewhat a minute, then a squad of Grum showed weilding Grum pulverizers and heraldic shields that are made of materials ranging from copper to damascus steel to voidshard, and some wielding Kexel's pulverizers and heraldic shields.
Also, these Grums are coated with forgotten beast blood+ichor and with the forgotten beast showing up in my "dead creatures list" seems like the Forgotten Beast revealed the grums before revealing itself to me and died moments later. (So that's why the Grums took a while to show up on the visible areas of the cave)
Now they lie in wait for me to come down, which seems to be a long time before I do since I want to make sure I can defend the caves, haven't had any experience dealing with underground seiges (and devourers).
Post by: narhiril on March 08, 2014, 08:52:31 am
Having forgotten all about the 2nd cavern, 2-3 months passed and an ambush was detected in the unexplored regions of the 2nd cavern VERY near the area I can see from the hole I made in the ceiling.
I waited for somewhat a minute, then a squad of Grum showed weilding Grum pulverizers and heraldic shields that are made of materials ranging from copper to damascus steel to voidshard, and some wielding Kexel's pulverizers and heraldic shields.
That should definitely not be happening. Thanks for the report. I think I know why that's happening, and I'll get a bugfix release up here as soon as possible.
Post by: Ashenblaze on March 08, 2014, 10:12:23 pm
Also, while I'm here, I'll drop some "not that useful" information because I don't have anything better to do at the moment:
Down in the caverns with the Grum Hammerers:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Meanwhile, up on the surface:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: ArchAIngel on March 09, 2014, 01:06:03 pm
No problem!Just wait until a voidwalker ambush comes. Then the artifact projector is turned into a death machine of horrible-wonderful murdering for all!
Also, while I'm here, I'll drop some "not that useful" information because I don't have anything better to do at the moment:
Down in the caverns with the Grum Hammerers:Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Meanwhile, up on the surface:Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Hotawotwot on March 09, 2014, 08:53:33 pm
Post by: Remuthra on March 09, 2014, 08:59:11 pm
Pew pew pew...
Post by: Hotawotwot on March 09, 2014, 09:06:04 pm
They're space weapons.void projectors i get, its their melee weapons that have me wondering
Pew pew pew...
Post by: Remuthra on March 09, 2014, 09:49:51 pm
I think they're chainswords. All of them.They're space weapons.void projectors i get, its their melee weapons that have me wondering
Pew pew pew...
Post by: Jesterdwarf on March 15, 2014, 07:32:35 am
First, thanks a lot for this mod Narhiril, it's amazing. I registered on Bay12 because i wanted to say that.
Second, i have a question. In the description of dwarves no beards are mentioned, only nails, that are always very long. Is this because of some inner DF restrictions or problems? Typical description looks like this:
He is very skinny. His nails are extremely long. His hair is clean-shaven. His protruding jade eyes are wide-set. His ears are free-lobed. His skin is pink.
I tested it on multiple saves, worlds, versions of DF and LFR, every time the same thing: no beards, long nails. Females have them too (nails, not beards).
(I'm not a native English-speaker, so sorry for brain damage that you might receive reading my post. Feel free to point out any of my mistakes).
Post by: narhiril on March 16, 2014, 09:22:10 am
Hi all.
First, thanks a lot for this mod Narhiril, it's amazing. I registered on Bay12 because i wanted to say that.
Second, i have a question. In the description of dwarves no beards are mentioned, only nails, that are always very long. Is this because of some inner DF restrictions or problems? Typical description looks like this:
He is very skinny. His nails are extremely long. His hair is clean-shaven. His protruding jade eyes are wide-set. His ears are free-lobed. His skin is pink.
I tested it on multiple saves, worlds, versions of DF and LFR, every time the same thing: no beards, long nails. Females have them too (nails, not beards).
(I'm not a native English-speaker, so sorry for brain damage that you might receive reading my post. Feel free to point out any of my mistakes).
Does this same thing happen with vanilla DF? Any changes I made to beards would have been accidental.
Also, thank you, and I'm so glad you're enjoying LFR. :)
Post by: Jesterdwarf on March 16, 2014, 10:05:25 am
Post by: narhiril on March 16, 2014, 12:11:01 pm
No, this happens only in LFR. I play both with and without mod, and beardless dwarves (sounds like an oxymoron, heh) appear only in modded game. Also, as far as i can tell, this "bug" appeared in 0.15a version.
Thanks, that will help narrow it down. I'll take a look at it.
Post by: greycat on March 26, 2014, 09:46:53 pm
Shortly, the predicted ambushers were spotted: a squad of voidwalkers. Somehow their captain -- a reaver -- had become separated from the annihilators. The captain was very close to the fortress's gate, which put him within easy range of the first crossbow squad, who quickly crippled him. He would not last long after that; the Nephilim guards, and the axedwarves and hammerdwarves of Guardsteppes, converged upon him and pounded him without quarter, a Stonekin hammerdwarf finally bashing its brains in with his tungsten war hammer.
Around this time, the Nephilim ambassador, a magister named Inpello Rectusfinis, arrived on site and started toward the fortress from the southeast. Meanwhile, the voidwalker annihilators were slowly advancing south along the eastern wall of the fortress. The second marksdwarf squad was only partially in position, but were able to put a few bolts into a couple of the annihilators.
The dwarves were expecting the magister to enter the fortress and head toward the mayor's office to begin negotiations, but the magister's sheer vitriolic hatred of the voidwalkers came as a shock. A dwarf in a battle rage has been known to charge recklessly into danger, swinging her axe and raising her runic defender against harm; but seeing the slender unarmed magister unfurl her wings and fly straight into the squad of annihilators left the dwarves stunned.
The magister's fury knew no limits. With naught but tooth and claw, she set upon the first annihilator, first tearing off a finger, then fracturing a wing, then biting its foot so viciously that the foot became entirely unusable. As they struggled, the magister shifted her bloodstained jaws to its leg, and then to its arm, biting hard enough to open an artery.
The axedwarves were sent out to assist, but they would need time to reach the battle. The other annihilators began firing their energy weapons at the magister. One of them managed to land a hit on the magister's left leg from behind; the steel bound void energy sliced entirely through the leg, severing it completely. Another shot broke the magister's ribs and knocked her away, where she lay collapsed in pain.
The axedwarves, fortunately, were able to arrive on the scene before the annihilators could follow up; with support from two marksdwarves firing from the eastern wall, they were able to destroy the annihilators.
The magister's fury had finally cooled. She refused all assistance, and hobbled into the fortress on her single remaining leg, to meet with the mayor. Naturally, the thoughtless wench couldn't even be bothered to stop her dodging training until ordered to do so by the manager; at which point she decided to get a drink, and then head to her room for a nap, with the poor blood-soaked Nephilim magister all the while crawling after her begging for a few moments of her time.
Post by: BillCobbett on April 06, 2014, 06:30:11 pm
2. The meowkin emissary just came to negotiate trade terms. They have tamed a race of creatures I have never seen or heard of before called clawed crustaceans of the abyss. It looks like my goblin amphitheater is going to have to become a lake
Post by: Remuthra on April 06, 2014, 06:32:39 pm
1. Just wanted to say fantastic job. I am continually surprised by this mod, truly legendaryI always request a pair of those from the caravan just for amusement value. They're so massive and expensive, it's all they bring.
2. The meowkin emissary just came to negotiate trade terms. They have tamed a race of creatures I have never seen or heard of before called clawed crustaceans of the abyss. It looks like my goblin amphitheater is going to have to become a lake
Post by: spigo on April 12, 2014, 08:05:01 pm
Second, I have a bug to report. There seems to be an issue with the 'Commune with Visthel' reaction. I set it on repeat and profiled it to some sacrificial migrants, and everyone who used it turned into a Paragon. My guess is it has something to do with autosyndrome, but I don't know.
A related issue is that one of them went berserk as well as transforming, which, of course, means she's unkillable. She reverted after a while, but now she's considered an enemy of the fort. I'm now in the peculiar situation of having one paragon smacking the other with his sword, but of course neither of them is dying.
Post by: Visus Draconis on April 13, 2014, 03:13:30 pm
I'm going to give you the credit, of course. I just liked the idea of having dwarves from your fortress destroy it from the inside (actively, that is, not as a result of their own idiocy), so I'm going to make a bunch of them, hehe.
Post by: narhiril on April 14, 2014, 02:33:59 pm
Nar, may I use a feature of your mod as a basis something I'm making? In particular, I'd like to ask for the use of the Saboteur interactions as the base for my cults and infiltrators.
I'm going to give you the credit, of course. I just liked the idea of having dwarves from your fortress destroy it from the inside (actively, that is, not as a result of their own idiocy), so I'm going to make a bunch of them, hehe.
By all means! :)
Post by: narhiril on April 14, 2014, 02:35:38 pm
First off, I want to say I love the mod. Everything seems to fit in right next to vanilla content somehow, and it seems like there's always some easter egg or something to interest me.
Second, I have a bug to report. There seems to be an issue with the 'Commune with Visthel' reaction. I set it on repeat and profiled it to some sacrificial migrants, and everyone who used it turned into a Paragon. My guess is it has something to do with autosyndrome, but I don't know.
A related issue is that one of them went berserk as well as transforming, which, of course, means she's unkillable. She reverted after a while, but now she's considered an enemy of the fort. I'm now in the peculiar situation of having one paragon smacking the other with his sword, but of course neither of them is dying.
It's supposed to be an extremely low chance, and it might be related to autosyndrome firing when it shouldn't. Thanks for the report, I'm looking into it.
Post by: Golbolco on April 16, 2014, 12:07:07 pm
Post by: Remuthra on April 16, 2014, 12:50:45 pm
Post by: Meph on April 16, 2014, 12:53:51 pm
If I remember correctly, rock chains are just metal chains, because DF considers metal to be a rock. Similarly, rock bars are just regular bars.That is correct.
Post by: Golbolco on April 17, 2014, 05:40:18 am
If I remember correctly, rock chains are just metal chains, because DF considers metal to be a rock. Similarly, rock bars are just regular bars.Thanks, that did it for me.
Post by: Jesterdwarf on June 26, 2014, 11:24:23 pm
Post by: Remuthra on June 26, 2014, 11:25:24 pm
Eh, is this mod dead or just plays possum? I would like to know if there is any chances of update coming in the future, or i'm filthy necroposter.I still play. Narhiril just hasn't worked on it in a while.
Post by: SalmonGod on June 26, 2014, 11:42:07 pm
Post by: Jesterdwarf on June 26, 2014, 11:50:59 pm
I still play. Narhiril just hasn't worked on it in a while.Good to know i'm not the only one to play LFR.
Likely waiting to dig into DF2014.Most likely, but i had to ask anyway. Thread just looked... deserted.
Post by: killerx243 on July 09, 2014, 09:08:22 am
Likely waiting to dig into DF2014.
Hope so, I love all the added gameplay.
Post by: Access on July 13, 2014, 01:47:10 am
Post by: SalmonGod on August 16, 2014, 04:48:12 pm
Post by: Teneb on August 17, 2014, 03:42:36 pm
Hey narharil... any plans for DF2014? Now that dfhack is out, I'm getting curious... and it's hard for me to enjoy DF without your mod. You've spoiled me :)You could attempt to convert the mod, since narhiril hasn't posted since april. The things that are needed are:
-Adding gaits to everything
-Attack speed for weapons and creatures
-Smell and odors (optional, but nice)
-Changing HUMANOID, QUADRUPED, etc to HUMANOID_NECK, QUADRUPED_NECK, etc as well as adding necks to custom bodies
-Adding CANNOT_JUMP and CANNOT_CLIMB (as well as STANCE_CLIMBER) to the creatures that need that
-Changing (or just deleting) the old personalities to match the new ones
-Entity values
-Converting custom plants to the new format
EDIT: Forgot some stuff
Post by: SalmonGod on August 17, 2014, 03:55:27 pm
Instead of updating LFR, I think I'd rather properly learn to make something of my own. Given how large and integrated LFR is, the amount of effort would probably be comparable. I'm already writing up some plans and reading up on the raw language. I may or may not dive in and actually do it.
Post by: Putnam on August 17, 2014, 04:10:17 pm
Post by: Teneb on August 17, 2014, 04:24:51 pm
I think she had some deeper stuff than that going on, with more recent versions of the mod. She was starting to integrate DFHack into core mod features and stuff. Way beyond my level.The dfhack stuff will probably need barely any touching on your part. Merely integrating the new dfhack and checking for any plugins not available for the new dfhack.
Instead of updating LFR, I think I'd rather properly learn to make something of my own. Given how large and integrated LFR is, the amount of effort would probably be comparable. I'm already writing up some plans and reading up on the raw language. I may or may not dive in and actually do it.
That said, you are clearly more intrested in making something of your own, so that's alright. I may do a updated version for this, as I quite like this mod and think it's a shame people are locked out of it due to version change, while trying to do as minimal changes as possible to narhiril's stuff so people can play while she doesn't come back. Not unlike what putnam did with my own mod when it came to 0.31 -> 0.34 conversion.
Post by: SalmonGod on August 17, 2014, 09:06:59 pm
It'll probably be less effort to make your own, heh.
That's what I was guessing, but not knowledgeable enough to say for certain. But the larger factor is that so long as I'm putting in a large amount of effort, I may as well make it my own.
Post by: Teneb on August 20, 2014, 10:04:57 am
Deathsword, if you do get the mod caught up for the most recent version of DF, I know I and many other fans of the mod would thank you endlessly for your work. I do so greatly miss LFR and I'm sad to hear narharil has vanished.Keep in mind all I plan on doing is updating. I won't modify anything else.
If you do take the project, know at least that you'll have my appreciation.
Post by: narhiril on August 25, 2014, 02:24:29 pm
I'm sorry, it's been a rough couple of months for me with a broken-off engagement and some weird ups and downs as my doctors have me on some new medications. I've not even really taken a look at what's different in DF2014, and the wall of tasks to fully update compatibility is a little intimidating for me right now. That and I'll have to remember (or re-learn) how plugins work, because there have been a few days where I've looked at my files and wondered how the hell any of it even works. I've never been any good at languages. When I last did anything LFR-related, I was working on plagues that spread via interactions.
I'm not opposed to the idea of accepting outside help at this point. If anyone would like to help me out with some compatibility fixes, they do so with my blessing. It looks like I've got a lot of catching up to do.
Post by: Teneb on August 25, 2014, 03:40:38 pm
The "to-do" list I drafted:
- Update plants to their new format. This is the biggest one in the list due to how radical changes have been.
- Add the new personality tokens (old ones no longer valid) based on the old ones present.
- Add appropriate gaits to all creatures.
- Add SMELL_TRIGGER (determines how good a creature can smell, lower is better, 10000 means no smelling) to creatures as needed.
- Add ODOR_LEVEL (Higher = Smellier) and ODOR_STRING (optional) to creatures as needed.
- Remove SPEED and SWIM_SPEED from creatures.
- Change HUMANOID to HUMANOID_NECK, QUADRUPED to QUADRUPED_NECK and so on, as well as add necks to modded-in bodies that should have it, then remove NECK and THROAT from all creatures that have them.
- Add attack speeds and multiattack flags to all creatures and weapons.
- Add values to entities.
- Check for CHAT_WORTHY on positions aside from the law-maker equivalent on Dark Fortress entities.
- Update the tileset for new animals and the tree tiles.
- Swapping the old starting biomes for the new biome support system.
EDIT: There's also the new HFS (detailed in spoiler) but I don't think that will affect anything in the mod.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: SalmonGod on August 25, 2014, 05:56:54 pm
Post by: narhiril on August 25, 2014, 09:12:08 pm
I've yet to start the updating process, but if you want me to, I'll go through with it. That said, I do not know how to update the DFHack plugins, so they'll be a problem.
The "to-do" list I drafted:
- Update plants to their new format. This is the biggest one in the list due to how radical changes have been.
- Add the new personality tokens (old ones no longer valid) based on the old ones present.
- Add appropriate gaits to all creatures.
- Add SMELL_TRIGGER (determines how good a creature can smell, lower is better, 10000 means no smelling) to creatures as needed.
- Add ODOR_LEVEL (Higher = Smellier) and ODOR_STRING (optional) to creatures as needed.
- Remove SPEED and SWIM_SPEED from creatures.
- Change HUMANOID to HUMANOID_NECK, QUADRUPED to QUADRUPED_NECK and so on, as well as add necks to modded-in bodies that should have it, then remove NECK and THROAT from all creatures that have them.
- Add attack speeds and multiattack flags to all creatures and weapons.
- Add values to entities.
- Check for CHAT_WORTHY on positions aside from the law-maker equivalent on Dark Fortress entities.
- Update the tileset for new animals and the tree tiles.
- Swapping the old starting biomes for the new biome support system.
EDIT: There's also the new HFS (detailed in spoiler) but I don't think that will affect anything in the mod.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Thank you. I'm not concerned with updating the stuff that relies on DFHack until DFHack has an official release for the current version, but a lot of the raws could be updated now. I'm going to start with some of the smaller tasks, like attack speeds and entity values - things that I doubt will be affected by any new developments in the immediate future.
Really sorry to hear about the rough time you've been having, narhiril. Take it easy.
Thank you, I'll do my best.
Post by: Putnam on August 25, 2014, 09:19:15 pm
Post by: Valikdu on September 06, 2014, 02:46:41 pm
Quote
then remove NECK and THROAT from all creatures that have them.
Why?
NECK is now the upper section of the spine, embedded in the neck (insead of the head).
THROAT is unchanged.
Vertebrate creatures should still have both.
Post by: Erde on September 24, 2014, 03:03:57 pm
In the meantime I took some parts of the mod and inserted them to the vanilla game. Now at least I have Meowkin and Carbuncles running around!
Post by: twryst on December 18, 2014, 09:58:14 pm
Thank you. I'm not concerned with updating the stuff that relies on DFHack until DFHack has an official release for the current version, but a lot of the raws could be updated now. I'm going to start with some of the smaller tasks, like attack speeds and entity values - things that I doubt will be affected by any new developments in the immediate future.Really sorry to hear about the rough time you've been having, narhiril. Take it easy.
Thank you, I'll do my best.
Hey- I made this account specifically to say:
A) I absolutely love this mod. I've played DF for... ~6 years, and I love the progression that LFR has, it's just excellent game design.
B) I have never done any modding, but I'd love to step in and help in whatever way I can. I can probably learn whatever is needed. Job Prioritization just got implemented (all glory to the hypno@toadyone) in .40.20 and having LFR up to date with that would be absolutely worthwhile. Also, I'm sorry you're caught up in rough times. Just let me know how I can help.
Post by: Jordan~ on December 23, 2014, 08:05:18 pm
It's strange - I downloaded the r4 version of the plugins, but plug in DFHack returns a full list of all of them except one - automaterial, the one that adds construction designations.
Post by: Golbolco on February 10, 2015, 01:23:04 pm
Can I assign him as a noble? Or, really, do anything with him? Just the sheer thought of having Bat Man run around my fortress is entertaining.
Post by: Zogundar on March 10, 2015, 11:21:51 pm
EDIT 4: Did a bit more testing, and MAXAGE is indeed the culprit - DF spawns creatures with age in some range like [0:MAXAGE], and large value causes integer overflow while calculating size. If MAXAGE is not specified, birth_year is somewhere between -150 and -300 - no overflow.
Old conversation, I know, but I tried removing the MAXAGE tag from Sperm Whales (And unless I misunderstand the way the raws work, Giant Sperm Whales by extension.) I'm still finding Giant Sperm Whales that attacks pass through during Arena matches (With a variety of weapon types and sizes to be on the safe side.)
Sometimes stuff won't pass through, but I don't know what causes that. Several times I've held down arrow keys attacking unconscious ones over and over again and get nothing after 10-15 seconds. Then another time I'll suddenly punch one and send it flying. :-\
Post by: Putnam on March 11, 2015, 01:18:06 am
Post by: Zogundar on March 20, 2015, 07:20:42 pm
Post by: Usul on May 17, 2015, 09:45:13 am
I don't know if narhiril is still active, I sent her a pm and I'll see if she respond, but since I don't think anyone is working on that, I'm planning to update it myself.
Post by: mcolombe on May 17, 2015, 08:35:04 pm
Post by: Usul on May 18, 2015, 10:57:56 am
Then I'll need to run a fortress or two to see what I broke and fix it.
Post by: hatesdigimon on May 19, 2015, 11:49:05 pm
Post by: The Master on May 22, 2015, 08:55:39 am
Post by: BelligerentGnu on May 24, 2015, 10:00:45 pm
Actually I finished everything but the entities and the DF-hack stuff. I just need some time to learn how it worked in 34.11. If I understand it correctly, add-spatter need little to no changes and what I'll have to do is to replace autosyndrome and itemsyndrome by reaction-trigger and item-trigger.
Then I'll need to run a fortress or two to see what I broke and fix it.
Jeez, this is fantastic! I was thinking about starting this project myself, and here you've already got it mostly done.
Would you like any help? I'm pretty much new to modding, but if you have any grunt work left I'd be happy to pitch in. Or if you'd like some help testing, I could do that as well.
Best of luck! Can't wait to see how this goes.
Post by: Usul on May 25, 2015, 03:47:35 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I hope nothing is too wrong, but I am not an experienced modder, so tell me if you think I did something weird.
LFR 0.21a Pre-Installed ASCII Version (http://dffd.bay12games.com/file.php?id=10883)
LFR 0.21a Pre-Installed Ironhand graphics Version (http://dffd.bay12games.com/file.php?id=10884)
Post by: Teneb on May 28, 2015, 11:28:08 am
Either way, good work.
Post by: Usul on May 28, 2015, 12:19:06 pm
Do you plan on adding anything, or are you merely maintaining the mod in narhiril's stead?I don't know, it seems that narhiril was working on another tier of the tech tree and on plagues. I could do the latter (there was a few unused raws that shows well what she wanted to do) but I don't feel like making something like a tech tree. I would go blindly.
This is very, very good news. I'm hoping I can mash it into my Linux build. It's really good to see LOFR return! Thank you, Usul.
Either way, good work.Thanks !
Post by: Meph on May 29, 2015, 05:54:27 am
Post by: Usul on May 29, 2015, 09:49:41 am
And it seems I broke the bog trolls, they are annihilated in worldgen. I will see what I can do.
Post by: BelligerentGnu on May 29, 2015, 12:16:25 pm
And if you are going to continue to work on this, I think that plagues would be a fantastic addition. Out of curiosity, which unused raws were you talking about? I'd like to take a look and try to figure out how they work myself.
Post by: Usul on May 29, 2015, 01:03:51 pm
Post by: hatesdigimon on May 31, 2015, 04:08:19 pm
Post by: Usul on May 31, 2015, 04:19:20 pm
EDIT: It's your tileset or the MH mod, I tested the ascii download and they are fine.
Post by: Usul on May 31, 2015, 04:51:24 pm
-general fixes:I'll fix everything in run into
-add some reactions to make adventure mode more fun
-add some curses/diseases
The curses will be the unwanted results of some reactions of the ritual tree(pray for stuff). They will depend on the god you are praying, and will affect only the worker.
Then there will be diseases. They are supposed to be hazardous, but won't be a fortress-ending thing, provided you act quickly(for example, puting the infected in quarantine).
I'll try to have variety, which means everything in your fortress from plants to domestics animals(and wild ones) could potentially carry a nasty(but rare) syndrome, and that the effects will vary.
I also noticed that the mod needs temperature being on. I know some people turn that off, and I think it's possible to make the mod independent of temperature, so I'll try to do that with extensive use of dfhack.
Post by: grisha5 on June 29, 2015, 09:58:47 pm
Post by: Usul on June 30, 2015, 05:09:32 am
Here it is, from a post 2 pages ago:
LFR 0.21a Pre-Installed ASCII Version (http://dffd.bay12games.com/file.php?id=10883)
LFR 0.21a Pre-Installed Ironhand graphics Version (http://dffd.bay12games.com/file.php?id=10884)
Post by: grisha5 on July 01, 2015, 04:38:31 am
Post by: grisha5 on July 04, 2015, 02:10:40 am
Post by: Usul on July 04, 2015, 02:21:12 am
What were their exact names ? Because I can't find any 'divine sword' in the Arena of a newly downloaded 34.11 version.
Post by: grisha5 on July 04, 2015, 02:34:31 am
Post by: grisha5 on July 04, 2015, 10:11:59 am
Post by: Usul on July 06, 2015, 09:55:52 am
I can't find any mention of an animated weapon in the raws of the 34.11 version, and I don't remember seeing them when I updating the mod. I'm sorry, but I searched in all the raws, checked the manual, then searched again with all the names I could think of. Are you sure you could find them before ? Could you provide a link with a save, or anything ?
Of course, you might be right, and I might be really dumb or just blind, but I just can't find them.
Post by: grisha5 on July 09, 2015, 08:43:40 am
Post by: grisha5 on July 10, 2015, 07:23:55 am
Post by: chipathingy on October 04, 2015, 10:33:13 pm
I think there may be a bug with the shedim devouring corpses. I've had a couple of crashes during shedim seiges and I suspect that it has something to do with this transformation. It doesn't happen when no-one dies.
And would it be possible to make the bog trolls harder? In my current fort they show up in large groups but aren't armed or armoured, except for maybe the leader. My legendary mace and sword lords chew through them in no time at all.
Any tips for attracting voidwalkers? Just the standard increase population and wealth triggers or something else?
Post by: SalmonGod on December 16, 2018, 08:06:04 pm
Enthusiastic +1
I think I have some extra keys on my humble bundle account I've never used that I could chip in, too.
Part of the reason I haven't played a serious fort in the last few years, is a distinct lack of Forlorn Realms.
There are other mods that do a great job of cleaning up and optimizing the game, mini-mods, overhauling individual aspects of the game such as combat, etc... but no major overhauls have drawn me in with their added content as much as Forlorn Realms did.
Unfortunately, I don't think a simple port to newer versions would do this mod justice. It needs a serious overhaul to incorporate stuff that the modding community has improved upon over the last few years, and general updating to current sensibility. I'm thinking the races, crafting progression, artifact system, etc re-built from scratch on top of Revised.
Post by: Putnam on December 19, 2018, 04:16:44 am
Post by: Ptasznikt on January 27, 2019, 02:27:25 am
Post by: Hiro Dark on January 04, 2020, 08:05:01 pm
With that said, I downloaded the Repo provided by Putnam to see if I could make it work for my own use, and assuming that the crashes they were referring to are just after the Civs are placed during worldgen I found what was causing them. In the ENTITY files for the Voidwalkers, the Nobles still had the CHAT_WORTHY tags-which apparently causes crashes if it's placed on Nobles of Dark Fortress Civilizations in the current version, which Voidwalkers are. I tested it out and removing that tag from those ENTITY files does allow the world to get past placing Civs and start generating history, which I think should at least make it playable in 0.43. Looking around the world, I've found Bog Troll, Lizardman, Nephilim, Shedim, Meowkin, and Voidwalker sites. Actually, they seem more common than the basegame race sites. No Grum or Moroii sites but I think they're underground anyways so they might not actually have any, on the overworld at least. I can confirm that Legends and Adventurer mode work at least, and playing as Nephilim, Voidwalkers, Meowkin, ect is all possible and works fine. Haven't tried Fortress Mode just yet but I expect that works fine too.
Unfortunately, I don't know the ins and outs of Dwarf Fortress modding or updating, I just know enough to parse the files and was luckily enough to catch that bit. I also don't know if everything works-I've only given it a cursory test, and besides which I'm not good enough at Dwarf Fortress to test out the more in-depth aspects of the mod-but it's at least playable at current with that edit. I'm hoping that this bit of knowledge might help reinvigorate the efforts to update it to current, but even if that doesn't happen, hopefully people who are wanting to give LFR a try and are willing to use on a slightly out-of-date version of DF will find it and be able to. I know it's always been a must-have for my own Dwarf Fortress playing.
Post by: Putnam on January 25, 2020, 11:48:27 am
Post by: Meph on January 25, 2020, 12:54:02 pm
Those don't work anymore, because the AI changed on how to use interactions. It's the main reason I had to retire most of Masterwork DF after updating from 34.11.
Post by: Erde on February 02, 2020, 08:35:05 pm
Post by: Putnam on February 05, 2020, 06:58:07 am
Post by: Erde on February 05, 2020, 09:38:22 am
Post by: Putnam on February 05, 2020, 09:43:55 am
Also, for the record:
Seeing this updated would be pretty cool. The biggest problem are probably the interactions. Narhiril did a lot with interlocking interactions, for example magic users that only buff other magic users, with exact timing.
Those don't work anymore, because the AI changed on how to use interactions. It's the main reason I had to retire most of Masterwork DF after updating from 34.11.
The new DEFEND usage hint allows for many of them to work, which is pretty great. Crossovers are, ah, still difficult, but I'll see if I can get them to work. If not... it's probably not too much of a problem.
Post by: Abadrausar on February 05, 2020, 04:52:01 pm
Yeah, I've decided to start work on this since 0.47.01 is out...PTW
Post by: Putnam on February 05, 2020, 05:25:57 pm
Post by: o_O[WTFace] on March 01, 2020, 07:06:43 pm
Edit: It will finish worldgen but is allergic to large numbers of civilizations. A medium region with 20 civs seems to generate about 1/3 of the time and crash 2/3.
Post by: stealth121 on March 02, 2020, 03:29:56 am
Unrecognized Usage Hint Token: DEFENSE
Pops up when i try and create a new world, repeated it like 15 times, 1 time on very low civs did it go through.
Post by: o_O[WTFace] on March 03, 2020, 09:54:51 pm
In any case LFR absolutely does work and lives again! Special thanks to Putnam for fixing this. I stopped playing DF when this mod was no longer maintained, and now I can come back.
Post by: Putnam on March 04, 2020, 09:00:03 pm
Post by: stormbot28 on May 31, 2021, 04:53:10 pm