I'll trade you my IC spot and take over for Vengeful if you're interested.
If I'm understanding RVS correctly....Don't worry about trying to understand RVS. Just try to get a feel for what other players are doing. Are they trying to fit in? Are they trying to find information? Look at what they do and how they do it.
So, Heliman, you've been in the last Beginner's Mafia, with the ICs we have, so who do you think us newbies should watch out for?
OK then. Just gonna wait for Heliman to answer.
Okami no Rei how do you think this game is going to go?Well. As long as the fresh blood doesn't develop chronic lurkitis, I like the mix of experience I'm looking at. This will be an interesting game.
anzki4: If you were scum, what qualities would you like in your scum partner?
Supercharizard - Hiding something?
Okami No Rei - True, however at this stage we have no idea on how everyone plays. Better to get an insight now than getting one too late.
Taricus: What do you think is the best way to hunt scum?
You haven't even responded to Toaster's query yet:Wait, that wasn't a theoretical question, crap. (I'm talking about toasters by the way). So one bad question is what makes you suspisous then. Fair point too though so...Taricus: What do you think is the best way to hunt scum?
So, Heliman, you've been in the last Beginner's Mafia, with the ICs we have, so who do you think us newbies should watch out for?Who should you watch out for? Everyone! look at everybody! Everyone here has a chance of being scum, you need to look at them all and see for yourself! That's mafia!
Heliman, if you were scum, would you be annoyed that you were singled out in the flavour text?Flavor text is just that, flavor text. Wouldn't be worried at all.
But you tell me, Toaster if I were scum, would you be a good partner to me?Anzki4, Toaster is an IC, are you doubting his ability to play already?
Jim Groovester, what you need the information about the doctor for?
Toaster - The way I think is best is to listen, read and wait. Pounce once they have given themselves away and utterly destroy them. Do not let them escape with anyones support.
The passive approach to scumhunting fails miserably against all scum save for completely new, never played a mafia before, scum. You can't expect that the scum will make mistakes for you. You have to press players and ask them prodding questions and keep them off balance, and otherwise force them into making revealing mistakes. Otherwise, you'll never find scum.
Stay active. Do all that you can to keep the conversation moving, preferably in a direction you want to take it. If you're not sure what to do, look through everybody's posts, ask questions about them, or ask for opinions about other players. If you're not active, you won't find scum. What's worse, you'll look like scum.
anzki4: If you were scum, what qualities would you like in your scum partner?
If I were scum, I would prefer my partner to be someone deceptive, who knows how to lie.
But you tell me, Toaster if I were scum, would you be a good partner to me?
Okami No Rei - True, however at this stage we have no idea on how everyone plays. Better to get an insight now than getting one too late.
I'm not sure you understood me. Let me reiterate. YOU are being lazy and scummy by bandwagoning Supercharazad without even offering a question.
"Hiding something?" is not a question. He's not hiding something unless he's scum or he's cop/doctor. Either way, he's certainly not going to tell you.
Just as you are seeking insight into everyone, so do we need insight in you. Why would you be exempt from this? Participate. Ask questions. Answer them. You haven't even responded to Toaster's query yet:Taricus: What do you think is the best way to hunt scum?
Toaster - The way I think is best is to listen, read and wait. Pounce once they have given themselves away and utterly destroy them. Do not let them escape with anyones support.
So one bad question is what makes you suspisous then. Fair point too though so...0.o
Unvote Supercharizard
Okami No Rei - No substance to the attack, and not very convincing argument means it'll fall through.Are you talking about my attack on you, or are you answering my question? Either way, it's RVS. I'm pushing you for a lead because you might be scum, and you might slip and give me something solid to work with. You need to do the same. Take your minor suspicions and substance-less attacks and use them as tools to harvest material for convincing arguments and uncover solid evidence.
Why'd you vote him in the first place if you weren't interested in questioning him? Why aren't you questioning anyone right now?
Okami No Rei - The minute I tell everyone I'm not scum is the minute I get lynced completely.
Powder miner - What do you mean, He caught without an answer, So I'm wrong.
Okami No Rei Nothing personal, though I'm getting a bit suspicious of you...Good! You should be suspicious of everyone! Not a question, though...
*False at very advanced levels
Carry on :3
Jim G: Would you enjoy the chance to be scum in this game to be able to personally tutor someone in the way of scum as well as teaching everyone how to be town?
Okami No Rei - The minute I tell everyone I'm not scum is the minute I get lynced completely. And I-hell with it.
Okami No Rei Nothing personal, though I'm getting a bit suspicious of you...
Powder miner - What do you mean, He caught without an answer, So I'm wrong.
Me, Jim, and Toaster have all been trying to explain to you how to act in a manner that benefits Town, and you haven't been listening.
Think0028, let's say you're the Doctor. What criteria would you use to make a decision about who to protect, and why?
Think0028, let's say you're the Doctor. What criteria would you use to make a decision about who to protect, and why?
First day, I'd protect whoever is the most active and doesn't give me a scum reading, as I'd feel that as scum, I'd pick off the more active players first so I could get a win through more easily against the more passive players. Afterwards, I'd look for people who suddenly become more aggressive, on suspicion of them being a cop. What would you do as doctor?
Anzki4, Toaster is an IC, are you doubting his ability to play already?Not at all. Just question about his fittingness to the part of a scum.
It's a hypothetical question designed to give me insight into how Think0028 thinks0028. I'm not actually looking for information about the Doctor.Very well. Unvote Jim Groovester.
Okami No Rei - No substance to the attack, and not very convincing argument means it'll fall through.
Okami No Rei - The minute I tell everyone I'm not scum is the minute I get lynced completely. And I-hell with it.
Okami No Rei Nothing personal, though I'm getting a bit suspicious of you...
That would be inexperience. Coupled with a lack of social skills.
Toaster, what would you do on the first day if you were a cop? What do you feel about Okami vs. Taricus right now? Personally, I feel that Taricus is being suspicious, but more in a noob way than in a scum way.
Any opinion on anyone else in the game besides Taricus?
During the day, I'd play as I would if I was vanilla town. At night, I'd either investigate my strongest suspicion or someone I had trouble reading- former if said suspicion was very strong, latter if I was unsure.
Okami seems to know what he is doing while Taricus is clearly new. I'm not yet getting strong scum vibes from either of them. But since I'm here...
Okami: Clearly you've played before. Do you prefer playing town or scum? Why?
Supercharazad - Stacking votes already? Interesting. In your opinion, how many votes constitutes a bandwagon in nine player RVS?
Supercharizard - Hiding something?
Vauge?
Ah, many thanks Anzki.
It would've generated A response, something I could worked with.
I understood it after you pressed on...
Ah, many thanks Anzki.
I understood it after you pressed on...
And how do you know that? Because I have no clue at what is going on right now...
And how do you know that? Because I have no clue at what is going on right now...
Ah, many thanks Anzki.
There is no detail to it, plain and simple. You want needless elaboration and detail in which I may possibly be able to deceive you with a wall of text, go get someone else. I give it as simply as I can. Not to mention I do forget things...
It would've generated A response, something I could worked with.
Why not say that when you understood it, not after I pressed you?
And the fact is, I gave you an answer. I you don't want to read out of delusion, fine by me.
There is no detail to it, plain and simple. You want needless elaboration and detail in which I may possibly be able to deceive you with a wall of text, go get someone else. I give it as simply as I can. Not to mention I do forget things...
And I'll say it again, I understood it after you pressed it.
I don't actually know if there's 2 mafia or not.
And I don't even remember. If I don't answer you, it means I don't have an answer. Enjoy your anger.
I don't actually know if there's 2 mafia or not.
There's always a 2/9 scumteam in these games unless someone has grievously fucked up.
And I don't even remember. If I don't answer you, it means I don't have an answer. Enjoy your anger.
Fact is I don't have much information to give.
Pressure applied to someone doesn't equal the fact that you'll get much out of them. Not to mention that a scum would be more subtle than me.Fact is I don't have much information to give.
You're going to get pressured in this game- everyone does. Come to expect it.
Pressure applied to someone doesn't equal the fact that you'll get much out of them. Not to mention that a scum would be more subtle than me.Fact is I don't have much information to give.
You're going to get pressured in this game- everyone does. Come to expect it.
Thank you, I'll unvote Toaster. But before I go on, I'd like to ask you and Jim Groovester the same question, seeing as you're both experienced on playing Mafia on these forums. Do you prefer playing town, or scum? Also, if town, would you prefer to have a power role or be vanilla? As scum?
Also consider that if all townies are extremely open, then if the scum clam up, it's obvious who's scum. This forces the scum to open up and provide more information for us to analyze.
In summary: if you're a townie, you want to share information. If you're scum, you want to share information so that you aren't obviously scummy.
No information, no motive yet. I say we attempt a stalemate for the lynch this round, call suspicions rather than voting.
Possibly, though they get a kill reguardless if we get one of them this day or not, and whoever got killed at that night may either been onto something or completely off.
Possibly, though they get a kill reguardless if we get one of them this day or not, and whoever got killed at that night may either been onto something or completely off.
Spoilspec me on this one, if ya don't mind.
Well then, I've nothing.
There is no detail to it, plain and simple. You want needless elaboration and detail in which I may possibly be able to deceive you with a wall of text, go get someone else. I give it as simply as I can.I think this is the third time you've made it clear that you know what we expect of you, yet you continue to fail to deliver.
Not to mention I do forget things...No excuse for that. It's all there for you to read.
Pressure applied to someone doesn't equal the fact that you'll get much out of them. Not to mention that a scum would be more subtle than me.
No information, no motive yet. I say we attempt a stalemate for the lynch this round, call suspicions rather than voting.I don't know what (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CaptainOblivious) to think (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ObfuscatingStupidity).
Well then, I've nothing.And I've had it with you.
Speaking of your motives, why the hell are you being so hard on Taricus? You're putting a lot of pressure on him. I don't think it's because you actually think he's scum. I think it's because you want to make a good show of scumhunting.You're right. I don't think he's scum. I don't think he's not scum, either. At this point I've been more interested in seeing the reactions to my pressing him. Specifically, I've been using him as bait while trawling for bandwagoning scum. That plan's over now I've said it, which is why I waited until tonight rather than last night to post again (needing to sleep and go to work played a role in the decision as well). Now I've got a veritable mountain of reactions to sift through.
You know what scumhunting for appearances' sake is? Scummy.
Okami no Rei. While I understand that Taricus is throwing a very large scumtell of active lurking and lacks meat to his attacks, I feel like he's reacting more like a inexperienced town than a bandwagoning scum. Consider that he folded almost instantly when you started pushing him and hasn't fought back. I believe as a scum he would be more concerned with his appearances, especially as a beginner on the first day. Do you think that Taricus is scum, or are you pressuring him to improve his game?I was directing the pressure to try and improve his game, but the primary concern is to create a sufficient amount of chaos that opportunistic, inexperienced scum scramble out of the woodwork at the the smell of an easy lynch.
And Taricus, I wonder if your answers are just inexperience, which most of us here posses, or is there something else behind it...This response reeks of scumminess. You're encouraging the bandwagon without actually hopping on, but why? What 'something more' do you suspect?
Unvote Think0028, Taricus Well, gee. You fail to answer his questions, and when he continues to press, you OMGUS him. Any reason for that?Since Powder Miner was only the second vote and actually brought an original accusation to the table...
Supercharizard - Hiding something?
unvote
So, as a matter of fact, I'm not.
Tell me, why the vauge RV? What possible outcome would that answer have generated other than a "no"?
Tacricus, Why the vauge RV? Also, who would prefer as your scumpartner?
Supercharazad - You're rehashing my arguments without providing original material, you were the third vote on the bandwagon, and judging by your post history, you've been around long enough to know better. Explain yourself.Ah, many thanks Anzki.
If you know what I meant now, then why not answer?
Not answering questions, that'd be a scumtell you know.
Do I really need to add 'and why?'? How many in RVS? Not in general.
Supercharazad - Stacking votes already? Interesting. In your opinion, how many votes constitutes a bandwagon in nine player RVS?
2, unless it's RVS or the second person has their own argument.
Okami: Clearly you've played before. Do you prefer playing town or scum? Why?Scum, of course! Much more interesting, though substantially more difficult. I enjoy the meta-challenge of keeping my scum and town behaviour consistent, without deliberately playing town poorly to keep my scumgame easy.
Okami, I have not read any games with Heliman in them unfortunately.Darn. Looks like I'll have go find and read it/them myself.
@ONR: Do I know you from somewhere?
More appropriately, where have you played before?
Hmm... intentional evading of my questions, and a laughing man avatar... no questions about mafia, and an easy alighnment with the ICs... an aggressive, familiar playing style.Intentional? I haven't even posted since you asked the first one...
I'll resume questioning post-game, because I think it's a distraction right now. However, ONR, I've got my eye on you.
Hmm. You'd be way more suspicious to me if this wasn't a Beginner's Mafia, but Taricus's game needs such obvious help that this seems highly plausible. I would've done the same if you didn't. Unvote.Okami no Rei. While I understand that Taricus is throwing a very large scumtell of active lurking and lacks meat to his attacks, I feel like he's reacting more like a inexperienced town than a bandwagoning scum. Consider that he folded almost instantly when you started pushing him and hasn't fought back. I believe as a scum he would be more concerned with his appearances, especially as a beginner on the first day. Do you think that Taricus is scum, or are you pressuring him to improve his game?I was directing the pressure to try and improve his game, but the primary concern is to create a sufficient amount of chaos that opportunistic, inexperienced scum scramble out of the woodwork at the the smell of an easy lynch.
Usually, when one finds someone one suspects of trolling and says "You're a troll," they ignore it if they are a troll, and refute it if they are not. Similar for other such matters. In this instance I fucked up, and yet received all the information I needed.Damn it all that was my guess. But they sound so alike...
So you have to keep pressing, upon which point one gains information as to character. A response, to shake the pursuer off, but nothing else. No response. No interest in being helpful to the questioner whatsoever.
To which I say, of course:
At least I know you aren't Zathras/Book.
You're right. I don't think he's scum. I don't think he's not scum, either. At this point I've been more interested in seeing the reactions to my pressing him. Specifically, I've been using him as bait while trawling for bandwagoning scum. That plan's over now I've said it, which is why I waited until tonight rather than last night to post again (needing to sleep and go to work played a role in the decision as well). Now I've got a veritable mountain of reactions to sift through.
I think this is the third time you've made it clear that you know what we expect of you, yet you continue to fail to deliver.
Hmm. You'd be way more suspicious to me if this wasn't a Beginner's Mafia, but Taricus's game needs such obvious help that this seems highly plausible. I would've done the same if you didn't. Unvote.Okami no Rei. While I understand that Taricus is throwing a very large scumtell of active lurking and lacks meat to his attacks, I feel like he's reacting more like a inexperienced town than a bandwagoning scum. Consider that he folded almost instantly when you started pushing him and hasn't fought back. I believe as a scum he would be more concerned with his appearances, especially as a beginner on the first day. Do you think that Taricus is scum, or are you pressuring him to improve his game?I was directing the pressure to try and improve his game, but the primary concern is to create a sufficient amount of chaos that opportunistic, inexperienced scum scramble out of the woodwork at the the smell of an easy lynch.
Okami no Rei isn't from the States.
I think I can pinpoint why because I don't like it either. I don't like Okami one bit, I've been thinking this was a stupid plan, but I've been having trouble getting a read on him. If I softball him, it's because of indecisiveness on my part. I accept it in Beginner's mafia because if this were a non-Beginner's mafia, I would read that entire chain as a failed attack on a townie leading into a springboard off to 'oh, this was all just as planned.' But since this is Beginner's, I can 1) believe he was sincerely trying to help Taricus 2) believe that a townie would come up with this plan.Hmm. You'd be way more suspicious to me if this wasn't a Beginner's Mafia, but Taricus's game needs such obvious help that this seems highly plausible. I would've done the same if you didn't. Unvote.Okami no Rei. While I understand that Taricus is throwing a very large scumtell of active lurking and lacks meat to his attacks, I feel like he's reacting more like a inexperienced town than a bandwagoning scum. Consider that he folded almost instantly when you started pushing him and hasn't fought back. I believe as a scum he would be more concerned with his appearances, especially as a beginner on the first day. Do you think that Taricus is scum, or are you pressuring him to improve his game?I was directing the pressure to try and improve his game, but the primary concern is to create a sufficient amount of chaos that opportunistic, inexperienced scum scramble out of the woodwork at the the smell of an easy lynch.
I don't like this exchange but I can't exactly pinpoint why.
With your first question, you say you suspect him but you don't even make a light accusation in the paragraph you voted him, and the two options you provided him are both positive. You say you suspect him slightly, but you throw him a complete softball.
And then you give it up, and say you'd find it suspicious, but it's a Beginner's game, so you don't. Why does a Beginner's game have anything to do with it? That doesn't make a lot of sense to me. I mean, why are you giving slack to a clearly experienced player, when the only people you should be doing that to, in a Beginner's game anyway, are beginners?
The Book-or-not guessing game is tremendously fascinating but there is a game going on, as in, an actual Beginner's game, where new players play and ICs teach them, and this is distracting everybody from that.
This response reeks of scumminess. You're encouraging the bandwagon without actually hopping on, but why? What 'something more' do you suspect?What can something more possibly mean. Being a scum and pretending - at least to some degree - newbiness.
anzki4 - I think you're covering for/indirectly supporting your partner, which would make Powder Miner or Supercharazad your counterpart.
anzki4, what convinces you that Taricus is scum and not a bad player?I have my suspicion(see above). But I am not so sure about it, that's why the blue color instead of red.
With Heliman posting and answering my question, I'm going to unvote and put my vote on Okami. Now that I think more about your actions and your responses, I see you as pushing for a bandwagon you didn't want to physically participate in that didn't materialize. Now that that's finished, I think you're trying to find someone to pin the blame on.
This response reeks of scumminess. You're encouraging the bandwagon without actually hopping on, but why? What 'something more' do you suspect?
anzki4 - I think you're covering for/indirectly supporting your partner, which would make Powder Miner or Supercharazad your counterpart.
Okami no Rei, who would you be most afraid of if they were scum?Jim - Because then there'd be two scum running around with flawless towngames.
This entire charade could easily be an attempt to quell the players suspicious of you for going after the weakest link.Continuing to interrogate Taricus wasn't exactly getting me anywhere. I don't like doing work and then having nothing to show for my efforts.
It doesn't automatically justify a sham of a scum huntA sham? Do elaborate on this claim. Bring evidence.
followed by a planned lurk, it just introduces WIFOM into the equation.Planned lurk? That's what you call knocking off for the night, and returning the next day? I've got another four of those planned for the rest of this week.
Since you're clearly not a beginner, I'll tell you straight.I never said it was the peak of brilliance. More of a salvage operation of a scumhunt gone sour.
That plan is stupid.
You'll just as easily catch inexperienced town as you will inexperienced scum. And since the game's full of inexperienced players, how actually worthwhile are the results you got?Quite worthwhile, considering I caught someone who's semi-experienced, and, as I said earlier, should know better. I didn't think it would actually yield fruit when I came up with it.
Okami. Now that I think more about your actions and your responses, I see you as pushing for a bandwagonPushing for scum. Bandwagons, like mobs, tend to form around action.
you didn't want to physically participate inCertainly not after I saw I wasn't getting anywhere. Like I said, I like to see results.
that didn't materialize.Because I was the one who shut it down.
Now that that's finished, I think you're trying to find someone to pin the blame on.Blame? For the bandwagon? Who? I'm the one who started it, collapsed it, and am now hunting with its remains.
Unvote Powder Miner. That is a good answer.So you think he's pretending newbiness? Show us the evidence. Just a hunch? Why aren't you interrogating him yourself? You can't just say "I think he's scum" and not be providing reasons or actively searching for them. You're not even voting for him (or anyone else at the moment, for that matter, what's up with that?).This response reeks of scumminess. You're encouraging the bandwagon without actually hopping on, but why? What 'something more' do you suspect?What can something more possibly mean. Being a scum and pretending - at least to some degree - newbiness.
anzki4 - I think you're covering for/indirectly supporting your partner, which would make Powder Miner or Supercharazad your counterpart.anzki4, what convinces you that Taricus is scum and not a bad player?I have my suspicion(see above). But I am not so sure about it, that's why the blue color instead of red.
You were crystal clear. That was a 'we' in the sense of those of us interrogating him.I think this is the third time you've made it clear that you know what we expect of you, yet you continue to fail to deliver.
And there you go with that 'we' business again.
I thought I was clear. Stop that.
*does a spittake*Okami no Rei, who would you be most afraid of if they were scum?Jim - Because then there'd be two scum running around with flawless towngames.
With Heliman posting and answering my question, I'm going to unvote and put my vote on Okami. Now that I think more about your actions and your responses, I see you as pushing for a bandwagon you didn't want to physically participate in that didn't materialize. Now that that's finished, I think you're trying to find someone to pin the blame on.
And then you reverse yourself again. Not because you really pressured him or anything but because I pointed it out to you. Why, you even call what Okami No Rei did a stupid plan, just like I did. Just after I did.
You look like you're trying to be agreeable more than you are trying to find scum, because you caved in and changed your opinion immediately after I asked you about it.
That's very suspect of you.
More of a salvage operation of a scumhunt gone sour.
I was directing the pressure to try and improve his game, but the primary concern is to create a sufficient amount of chaos that opportunistic, inexperienced scum scramble out of the woodwork at the the smell of an easy lynch.
Continuing to interrogate Taricus wasn't exactly getting me anywhere. I don't like doing work and then having nothing to show for my efforts.
No information, no motive yet. I say we attempt a stalemate for the lynch this round, call suspicions rather than voting.
Possibly, though they get a kill reguardless if we get one of them this day or not, and whoever got killed at that night may either been onto something or completely off.
Supercharizard - Hiding something?
unvote
So, as a matter of fact, I'm not.
Tell me, why the vauge RV? What possible outcome would that answer have generated other than a "no"?
Tacricus, Why the vauge RV? Also, who would prefer as your scumpartner?Supercharazad - You're rehashing my arguments without providing original material, you were the third vote on the bandwagon, and judging by your post history, you've been around long enough to know better. Explain yourself.Ah, many thanks Anzki.
If you know what I meant now, then why not answer?
Not answering questions, that'd be a scumtell you know.
Actually, I didn't notice you using those arguments. But, why are you saying that I shouldn't be bandwagoning, when I have my own arguments? Are you trying to defend Tacricus?
Also,Do I really need to add 'and why?'? How many in RVS? Not in general.
Supercharazad - Stacking votes already? Interesting. In your opinion, how many votes constitutes a bandwagon in nine player RVS?
2, unless it's RVS or the second person has their own argument.
In RVS, I think any amount of bandwagoning is fine, so long as you can give a reason and a question.
Supercharazad, do you have an opinion on any other player in the game besides Taricus?
Alright.
But why would Okami No Rei be trying to defend Taricus when at the beginning of the game, he was pressing him?
I don't think there's as much connection between the two as you think there is.
So you think he's pretending newbiness? Show us the evidence. Just a hunch? Why aren't you interrogating him yourself? You can't just say "I think he's scum" and not be providing reasons or actively searching for them. You're not even voting for him (or anyone else at the moment, for that matter, what's up with that?).
Okami no Rei, who would you be most afraid of if they were scum?Jim - Because then there'd be two scum running around with flawless towngames.
You were crystal clear. That was a 'we' in the sense of those of us interrogating him.I think this is the third time you've made it clear that you know what we expect of you, yet you continue to fail to deliver.
And there you go with that 'we' business again.
I thought I was clear. Stop that.
Toaster - You're not voting for anyone, either. In fact, you've been remarkably passive thus far. What do you think of Supercharazad?
With everyone but anzki and Heliman having made enough posts I can sink into, I'd like to ask them some questions. Heliman a question. Who do you have strong reads on? What is your opinion on Taricus and the people voting on him? anzki4, what convinces you that Taricus is scum and not a bad player?
With Heliman posting and answering my question, I'm going to unvote and put my vote on Okami. Now that I think more about your actions and your responses, I see you as pushing for a bandwagon you didn't want to physically participate in that didn't materialize. Now that that's finished, I think you're trying to find someone to pin the blame on.
So here goes; Toaster. If you could decide who to lynch today, and had to lynch someone, who would go?
Think: After reading your waffling on voting Okami several times and trying to decide if it was honest indecision or not, I have to conclude it isn't. Why? Your interim actions.With everyone but anzki and Heliman having made enough posts I can sink into, I'd like to ask them some questions. Heliman a question. Who do you have strong reads on? What is your opinion on Taricus and the people voting on him? anzki4, what convinces you that Taricus is scum and not a bad player?
This is perfectly fine. You back off a suspicion after a satisfactory response and you go on to get two quiet people to talk.With Heliman posting and answering my question, I'm going to unvote and put my vote on Okami. Now that I think more about your actions and your responses, I see you as pushing for a bandwagon you didn't want to physically participate in that didn't materialize. Now that that's finished, I think you're trying to find someone to pin the blame on.
Then you go back after you get what you wanted. Fine.
Except for one thing- anzki never answered you. You didn't actually get what you said you wanted. You asked a question with no intent to follow up on it. The only conclusion here is you're scum hopping back on the wagon. The fact that you revoted after someone else voted Okami stinks too.
Super: If Taricus flipped town either via lynch or NK before D2, what would that do to your opinion of Okami?
Besides, isn't it possible to vote for someone while waiting on questions for someone else? You're doing the same right now with me and anzki4 as well.
With everyone but anzki and Heliman having made enough posts I can sink into, I'd like to ask them some questions. Heliman a question. Who do you have strong reads on? What is your opinion on Taricus and the people voting on him? anzki4, what convinces you that Taricus is scum and not a bad player?
With Heliman posting and answering my question, I'm going to unvote and put my vote on Okami. Now that I think more about your actions and your responses, I see you as pushing for a bandwagon you didn't want to physically participate in that didn't materialize. Now that that's finished, I think you're trying to find someone to pin the blame on.
With everyone but anzki and Heliman having made enough posts I can sink into, I'd like to ask them some questions. Heliman a question. Who do you have strong reads on? What is your opinion on Taricus and the people voting on him? anzki4, what convinces you that Taricus is scum and not a bad player?
You're grouping them together here. You want content from both of them.With Heliman posting and answering my question, I'm going to unvote and put my vote on Okami. Now that I think more about your actions and your responses, I see you as pushing for a bandwagon you didn't want to physically participate in that didn't materialize. Now that that's finished, I think you're trying to find someone to pin the blame on.
And the connection is gone. Anzki hasn't posted between these two posts, yet you lose interest in his response.
This is entirely different from me going after you and Anzki. I am attacking you and trying to get more content out of him in an entirely separate thread. You're just trying to make yourself look better via making me look bad.
And then you reverse yourself again. Not because you really pressured him or anything but because I pointed it out to you. Why, you even call what Okami No Rei did a stupid plan, just like I did. Just after I did.
You look like you're trying to be agreeable more than you are trying to find scum, because you caved in and changed your opinion immediately after I asked you about it.
That's very suspect of you.
I am aware it's very suspect, but this is the pattern I went through:
1) Made post in response to Okami, full of doubt.
2) Ruminated on doubt.
3) Saw your post, which pressed my doubts.
4) Decided to go with my doubts.
I swear up and down I thought the plan was bad beforehand, but I have no way of proving that, unfortunately, as I left that out of my posts intentionally, to avoid showing my indecision. Once you pressed it, I decided that the voice in my head shouting "don't trust Okami" is louder than the one shouting "stick with what you said." The vote on Heliman was mostly me stalling for time by waiting for some response from him so I didn't have to keep thinking about Okami. Heliman also suspecting Okami suggested to me that what I saw wasn't something I made up in my head.
With everyone but anzki and Heliman having made enough posts I can sink into, I'd like to ask them some questions. Heliman a question. Who do you have strong reads on? What is your opinion on Taricus and the people voting on him? anzki4, what convinces you that Taricus is scum and not a bad player?
How about you? It's getting a bit late in the day for RV questions. Who do you suspect and why?Unvote Toaster.
Anzki4: Can you reword your question, I don't understand it right now.Yeah. Sorry about that.
Second would be Supercharazad due to his relentlessness.
There are IMO couple more suspicious persons here than the rest. First we have Okami for the reasons already mentioned by others. Secondly there is Taricus, for reasons I have already posted. Thirdly and fourthly there are Heliman and Think0028 for perhaps too eager lynchstacking...
Taricus, who would you at this moment to be the two scums?
Yes, much.
First would be Okami No Rei due to the fact the playstyle seems a bit too townie.
Second would be Supercharazad due to his relentlessness.
I'm not even slightly concerned with making you look bad at the moment, I'm just trying to make my case and explain my actions. My follow-up post was not intended to be "oh yeah well you did that too" but more "isn't this a legitimate thing that can be done? Can't we both be in the right?".
Okami. Now that I think more about your actions and your responses, I see you as pushing for a bandwagonPushing for scum. Bandwagons, like mobs, tend to form around action.you didn't want to physically participate inCertainly not after I saw I wasn't getting anywhere. Like I said, I like to see results.that didn't materialize.Because I was the one who shut it down.
Now that that's finished, I think you're trying to find someone to pin the blame on.Blame? For the bandwagon? Who? I'm the one who started it, collapsed it, and am now hunting with its remains.
Don't need to pillweef, because the answer is simple. You said yourself that you weren't scum hunting Taricus because he was scummy, therefore your scum hunt was a ruse.It doesn't automatically justify a sham of a scum huntA sham? Do elaborate on this claim. Bring evidence.
followed by a planned lurk, it just introduces WIFOM into the equation.Planned lurk? That's what you call knocking off for the night, and returning the next day? I've got another four of those planned for the rest of this week. You're changing your story again, you said that the lurk was a tactical move to get "reactions" and work and sleep played a role in deciding to wait.
Jim Groovester: Who are your two top scumpicks, and why?
Thirdly and fourthly there are Heliman and Think0028 for perhaps too eager lynchstacking...
followed by a planned lurk, it just introduces WIFOM into the equation.Planned lurk? That's what you call knocking off for the night, and returning the next day? I've got another four of those planned for the rest of this week. You're changing your story again, you said that the lurk was a tactical move to get "reactions" and work and sleep played a role in deciding to wait.
Something making you nervous, Heliman?? What make's you so distracted arguing against yourself?followed by a planned lurk, it just introduces WIFOM into the equation.Planned lurk? That's what you call knocking off for the night, and returning the next day? I've got another four of those planned for the rest of this week. You're changing your story again, you said that the lurk was a tactical move to get "reactions" and work and sleep played a role in deciding to wait.
Toaster: They were in no particular order. Probably should've said that.
[/quote]You're changing your story again, you said that the lurk was a tactical move to get "reactions" and work and sleep played a role in deciding to wait.followed by a planned lurk, it just introduces WIFOM into the equation.Planned lurk? That's what you call knocking off for the night, and returning the next day? I've got another four of those planned for the rest of this week.
I should probably rephrase my question to Heliman; What make's you so distracted that you are arguing against yourself?Aww, whose a cute little parrot? You are! Polly want a cracker?
Let me be the first to ask for an extension: there's more to find out today.
I'd have to say Okami no rei for the "two scum running around with flawless town games" thing, and the points everyone else has been making, and still Taricus a little bit, he has been quite scummy.
I'd have to say Okami no rei for the "two scum running around with flawless town games" thing, and the points everyone else has been making, and still Taricus a little bit, he has been quite scummy.I made that point too parrot.
It won't. However my post always seem to start more crap than they finish.
I'd have to say Okami no rei for the "two scum running around with flawless town games" thing, and the points everyone else has been making, and still Taricus a little bit, he has been quite scummy.
I'm not quitting, I'm just trying to think up something that won't get me dogpiled.
How about you, Unvote, Jim Groovester? Who do you find most and second most scummy right now?
Jim Groovester: Who are your two top scumpicks, and why?
Okami No Rei. For pressuring Taricus for show and for changing up his story about what he was actually doing about that.
And then... I'm not sure. After Okami No Rei there's a sharp drop-off in my suspicions. I'd probably say anski4 for the following reasons.
But can you please tell me how I'm being passive/wishy-washy? I'm not trying to be.
...and since I wasn't getting an answer form Taricu, I decided to scumhunt other people. It shows who you are if you have a problem with that.
Anyway, I anwered him perfectly well, although I do admit my tirade as a bit panicky.
Anyway, who's flipping out at this point? Both of us.
And I'm confused about your top point. And Jim Groovester, I'm not going with a continued vote change. I'm RVing. And I know I'm flipping out. If I manage to get enough info to expoe Taricus a scum, even if I die right afterwards, i'll win. One doesn't need to be alive to win, especially as town. Although aliveness is preferable
And I know I'm flipping out.
Ahem...More of a salvage operation of a scumhunt gone sour.
And now you're changing up your story.I was directing the pressure to try and improve his game, but the primary concern is to create a sufficient amount of chaos that opportunistic, inexperienced scum scramble out of the woodwork at the the smell of an easy lynch.
You could understand how somebody could get the impression that it was your plan from the start to use Taricus as bait for inexperienced scum, considering that it was apparently 'the primary concern'.
And now you're saying that it was a scumhunt gone sour.
So which is it?
From the start, I was questioning him in order to get a read on him. When he proved unreadable, my priorities changed to salvaging the interrogation by pushing it beyond reasonable territory, thereby getting reads one everyone from the responses to it. So it's both. Only by twisting my words do you arrive at the conclusion that my stories changed.Speaking of your motives, why the hell are you being so hard on Taricus? You're putting a lot of pressure on him. I don't think it's because you actually think he's scum. I think it's because you want to make a good show of scumhunting.You're right. I don't think he's scum. I don't think he's not scum, either. At this point I've been more interested in seeing the reactions to my pressing him. Specifically, I've been using him as bait while trawling for bandwagoning scum. That plan's over now I've said it, which is why I waited until tonight rather than last night to post again (needing to sleep and go to work played a role in the decision as well). Now I've got a veritable mountain of reactions to sift through.
You know what scumhunting for appearances' sake is? Scummy.
Semantics. Again, you twist my words to have your own meaning. Do I need to spell it out for you?Continuing to interrogate Taricus wasn't exactly getting me anywhere. I don't like doing work and then having nothing to show for my efforts.
Ah, so I was right. You were just pressuring Taricus for show.
I did expect things to happen in the 18 hours I was gone. On my return, I analyzed what had happened. The bandwagon did materialize, and one of the members looked like scum. I am now interrogating him. Had the bandwagon never materialized, which is what I assume you meant, I'd have come up with a new plan, or revised my old one to work in the new environment.Okami. Now that I think more about your actions and your responses, I see you as pushing for a bandwagonPushing for scum. Bandwagons, like mobs, tend to form around action.you didn't want to physically participate inCertainly not after I saw I wasn't getting anywhere. Like I said, I like to see results.that didn't materialize.Because I was the one who shut it down.
There was a fair bit of time between you starting the push on Taricus and you 'revealing' your master plot. About 24 hours or so. While I understand that you can only make so many content filled posts or so, you can't say that you didn't expect anything to happen in those 24 hours. What would you have done if the bandwagon really materialized? Maybe it's just me, but I feel like you're pushing for someone to hang, even if they're non-scum.
Because Taricus (FAKEDIT: And now Powder Miner, I suppose) is the easy lynch right now. The ones that hopped on the bandwagon aren't so easy as you seem to think, since everyone's looking at them as victims right now. I'm pushing for one of them because I think one of them is scum, not because he's easy.Quote from: Okami no ReiTo blame for hopping onto a bandwagon of your own creation. It's one thing to point out people hopping onto a bandwagon, it's another if you're driving it. Why should we believe that you aren't scum pushing for the easy lynch? First you go for the guy unwilling to commit or post anything, then you go for the ones who hop on a bandwagon, again, that you started.Now that that's finished, I think you're trying to find someone to pin the blame on.Blame? For the bandwagon? Who? I'm the one who started it, collapsed it, and am now hunting with its remains.
What I don't see is someone who's actually concerned with finding scum. What I see is someone who's concerned with finding lynchable people. Why Supercharazad? What makes you think that his vote is a scum vote and not a beginner townie vote?
I said I stopped trying because I didn't think he was scum, but I didn't think he was not scum, either. I couldn't get him to play, so I couldn't get a read on him, so continuing was a waste of my time.Don't need to pillweef, because the answer is simple. You said yourself that you weren't scum hunting Taricus because he was scummy, therefore your scum hunt was a ruse.It doesn't automatically justify a sham of a scum huntA sham? Do elaborate on this claim. Bring evidence.
I was fixing to retire for the night at the time anyways, then Jim calls me out on pushing Taricus as hard as I was, and I knew the plan was shot. So I decided to get some sleep and explain myself the next day, in order to give the plan time to generate results before I had to blow it out of the water.You're changing your story again, you said that the lurk was a tactical move to get "reactions" and work and sleep played a role in deciding to wait.followed by a planned lurk, it just introduces WIFOM into the equation.Planned lurk? That's what you call knocking off for the night, and returning the next day? I've got another four of those planned for the rest of this week.
To everyone, I might not be playing well today due to a series of events, including kneeing my own neck, resulting in a bad cold and a neck that is very painful when I turn it. Thus, my concentration is probably going to be a bit off.No kidding. You're using Toaster's points now as well.
Are you trying to defend Tacricus?Heavens, no. If he won't take the time and effort to play, I'm certainly not going to take the time and effort to defend him.
In RVS, I think any amount of bandwagoning is fine, so long as you can give a reason and a question.You hopped on a bandwagon. You gave several questions. Let's see your explanation:
Actually, I didn't notice you using those arguments. But, why are you saying that I shouldn't be bandwagoning, when I have my own arguments?You've got arguments, sure, but none of them are, as you say, your own.
vsSupercharizard - Hiding something?
Taricus - Nothing to add? At least he included a decent RVS question when he stacked votes. Jumping on an easy target like that, without even contributing to the investigation, is downright lazy, and terribly scummy. Try again.
I've already called him out on his poor excuse for a RV.Supercharizard - Hiding something?
unvote
So, as a matter of fact, I'm not.
Tell me, why the vauge RV? What possible outcome would that answer have generated other than a "no"?
Tacricus, Why the vauge RV? Also, who would prefer as your scumpartner?
vsOkami No Rei - No substance to the attack, and not very convincing argument means it'll fall through.Are you talking about my attack on you, or are you answering my question? Either way, it's RVS. I'm pushing you for a lead because you might be scum, and you might slip and give me something solid to work with. You need to do the same. Take your minor suspicions and substance-less attacks and use them as tools to harvest material for convincing arguments and uncover solid evidence.
You still haven't addressed the primary concern. Are you bandwagoning scum or aren't you? If not, why?
Answering the following might help your case:Why'd you vote him in the first place if you weren't interested in questioning him? Why aren't you questioning anyone right now?
You're activelurking right now, which only benefits the scum. Defend yourself! Attack somebody! Do something!
If you know what I meant now, then why not answer?and
Not answering questions, that'd be a scumtell you know.
I've already hammered him for not answering questions and playing passively.No information, no motive yet. I say we attempt a stalemate for the lynch this round, call suspicions rather than voting.
Passiveness: Scumtell.
vsPressure applied to someone doesn't equal the fact that you'll get much out of them. Not to mention that a scum would be more subtle than me.Fact is I don't have much information to give.
You're going to get pressured in this game- everyone does. Come to expect it.
Pressure generally won't go away if the person applying it doesn't like what they get out of it.
Beyond that, that logic you used ("Scum me wouldn't do this") is actually no good, commonly referred to here as WIFOM (http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=WIFOM). Simply put, 99 times out of 100 that type of statement does no good and shouldn't be used.
I don't see you applying pressure of your own. Why aren't you questioning people?
Toaster's already pointed out the WIFOM.Possibly, though they get a kill reguardless if we get one of them this day or not, and whoever got killed at that night may either been onto something or completely off.
They MAY have been on to something. WIFOM right here.
Fine, untilSo you think he's pretending newbiness? Show us the evidence. Just a hunch? Why aren't you interrogating him yourself? You can't just say "I think he's scum" and not be providing reasons or actively searching for them. You're not even voting for him (or anyone else at the moment, for that matter, what's up with that?).
Yes, you could call that just a hunch. And about not voting Taricus, like I already said, my suspicion is not strong enough. And about the not voting anyone part; I had to hurry to school when I last made a post, so I didn't have time to RV anyone and make a question.
There are IMO couple more suspicious persons here than the rest. First we have Okami for the reasons already mentioned by others. Secondly there is Taricus, for reasons I have already posted. Thirdly and fourthly there are Heliman and Think0028 for perhaps too eager lynchstacking...You start interrogating Taricus. Progress. But you turn right around and say you're suspicious of me, don't bother asking me a question, and fail to provide original reasoning. Finally, you accuse Heliman and Think0028 of behaviour that you, yourself, are encouraging. So, you're supporting my bandwagon, you're condemning its participants, and the only person you're interrogating in all this is Taricus. What's your motive for all this? I'll tell you. You're pushing for what you percieve to be an easy lynch on me, you're covering your tracks by condemning my attackers, and you're continuing to pursue the old easy lynch in case my bandwagon falls through.
Taricus, who would you at this moment to be the two scums?
You're not even serious about questioning Taricus.Anzki4: Can you reword your question, I don't understand it right now.Yeah. Sorry about that.
Who would you, at this moment, think to be the two scums?
Better? :D
Unvote Taricus: fair enough.And now you're trying to cover your tracks after Jim called you out on not directly attacking me, by going after Heliman over what? A post that's clearly mangled only due to some quote tagging errors? You're really reaching now.
Jim Groovester: like I said in my previous post, the listing was in random order, so Okami is not my "prime suspect." I honestly did not have one before this:Something making you nervous, Heliman?? What make's you so distracted arguing against yourself?followed by a planned lurk, it just introduces WIFOM into the equation.Planned lurk? That's what you call knocking off for the night, and returning the next day? I've got another four of those planned for the rest of this week. You're changing your story again, you said that the lurk was a tactical move to get "reactions" and work and sleep played a role in deciding to wait.
I don't know that, but I would be very concerned about scum getting one-on-one coaching from him, and it's the worst case scenario I'm assuming in any theories around his being scum.*does a spittake*Okami no Rei, who would you be most afraid of if they were scum?Jim - Because then there'd be two scum running around with flawless towngames.
What? Two flawless scum? how could you possibly know that?
Okami:Powder Miner was my choice up until this post:Okami no Rei, who would you be most afraid of if they were scum?Jim - Because then there'd be two scum running around with flawless towngames.
So who's the other scum with a flawless towngame?
Not posting, just privately. Shoulda made it clear. Middle school keeps me from posting most of the day. And I meant before I NOTICED he made the point. Never mind. Anyway, I'm keeping my vote on Tarius because he's still scummy seeming and I'm afraid I'll get accused of bandwagoning if I vote for Okami.
"Us vs Him" would be more appropriate, in this case. I'm quite frustrated with his behaviour. I second the call to Replace Taricus.You were crystal clear. That was a 'we' in the sense of those of us interrogating him.I think this is the third time you've made it clear that you know what we expect of you, yet you continue to fail to deliver.
And there you go with that 'we' business again.
I thought I was clear. Stop that.
It's still light buddying- you putting up an "Us vs Them" situation.
But is he scum?Toaster - You're not voting for anyone, either. In fact, you've been remarkably passive thus far. What do you think of Supercharazad?
Super? After his RV, he tunneled Taricus for a while for being so uncooperative before moving on. His play is reasonable, but I'd like to see him spread his questioning a bit broader.
What do you think of the four votes on you? What is the likelihood that at least one is scum? Think both scum are in on it?
"Us vs Him" would be more appropriate, in this case. I'm quite frustrated with his behaviour. I second the call to Replace Taricus.
I did expect things to happen in the 18 hours I was gone. On my return, I analyzed what had happened. The bandwagon did materialize, and one of the members looked like scum. I am now interrogating him. Had the bandwagon never materialized, which is what I assume you meant, I'd have come up with a new plan, or revised my old one to work in the new environment.
Because Taricus (FAKEDIT: And now Powder Miner, I suppose) is the easy lynch right now. The ones that hopped on the bandwagon aren't so easy as you seem to think, since everyone's looking at them as victims right now. I'm pushing for one of them because I think one of them is scum, not because he's easy.They're looking at them as victims because you called them out as the culmination to a half-assed plot you grabbed to try and save yourself. The easy lynches are the guy you were pushing for and the guy who flipped out in the middle of your posting, so you can hardly say that you were good and noble and virtuous not pushing for Powder Miner. You're voting for a guy who agreed with you when you were supposedly acting as town. This is all just you sowing suspicion now that your attempts to take someone down are failing.
Taricus is OMGUSing, which is a nulltell like everything else about him. Heliman and Think are following Jim as the Voice of Authority and Reason. Not a scumtell, since he's an IC. Jim's is the only vote that really means anything. At least one is scum? Very likely if I'm wrong about Super and Anzki. Which one is the question. I'm still working out Jim's game. I'd lay even odds that Think or Heliman is scum. Are both? Taricus and Think are the only possibility that springs to mind. Heliman and Jim are a longshot. None of the other combinations work.
They're looking at them as victims because you called them out as the culmination to a half-assed plot you grabbed to try and save yourself. The easy lynches are the guy you were pushing for and the guy who flipped out in the middle of your posting, so you can hardly say that you were good and noble and virtuous not pushing for Powder Miner. You're voting for a guy who agreed with you when you were supposedly acting as town. This is all just you sowing suspicion now that your attempts to take someone down are failing.
You're being extremely panicky and reactionary. Toaster's pressure wasn't really all that fierce, so I've got to wonder, what is it about you that makes you panic from so little pressure? Could it be, that you're scum? And now that somebody's voting you you don't know what to do? I dunno. Seems like that could be the case to me.
To everyone, I might not be playing well today due to a series of events, including kneeing my own neck, resulting in a bad cold and a neck that is very painful when I turn it. Thus, my concentration is probably going to be a bit off.No kidding. You're using Toaster's points now as well.Are you trying to defend Tacricus?Heavens, no. If he won't take the time and effort to play, I'm certainly not going to take the time and effort to defend him.In RVS, I think any amount of bandwagoning is fine, so long as you can give a reason and a question.You hopped on a bandwagon. You gave several questions. Let's see your explanation:Actually, I didn't notice you using those arguments. But, why are you saying that I shouldn't be bandwagoning, when I have my own arguments?You've got arguments, sure, but none of them are, as you say, your own.
Allow me to demonstrate:vsSupercharizard - Hiding something?
Taricus - Nothing to add? At least he included a decent RVS question when he stacked votes. Jumping on an easy target like that, without even contributing to the investigation, is downright lazy, and terribly scummy. Try again.I've already called him out on his poor excuse for a RV.Supercharizard - Hiding something?
unvote
So, as a matter of fact, I'm not.
Tell me, why the vauge RV? What possible outcome would that answer have generated other than a "no"?
Tacricus, Why the vauge RV? Also, who would prefer as your scumpartner?vsOkami No Rei - No substance to the attack, and not very convincing argument means it'll fall through.Are you talking about my attack on you, or are you answering my question? Either way, it's RVS. I'm pushing you for a lead because you might be scum, and you might slip and give me something solid to work with. You need to do the same. Take your minor suspicions and substance-less attacks and use them as tools to harvest material for convincing arguments and uncover solid evidence.
You still haven't addressed the primary concern. Are you bandwagoning scum or aren't you? If not, why?
Answering the following might help your case:Why'd you vote him in the first place if you weren't interested in questioning him? Why aren't you questioning anyone right now?
You're activelurking right now, which only benefits the scum. Defend yourself! Attack somebody! Do something!If you know what I meant now, then why not answer?and
Not answering questions, that'd be a scumtell you know.I've already hammered him for not answering questions and playing passively.No information, no motive yet. I say we attempt a stalemate for the lynch this round, call suspicions rather than voting.
Passiveness: Scumtell.
PPE: I wish I were in cahoots with Taricus. Then at least I could try to coach him privately. Not that'd he'd listen to me anyways.
It won't. However my post always seem to start more crap than they finish.
Explain.
Explain.
Well, you see, Powder Miner asked me a question, but since you asked me an identical question earlier in the game, I just quoted myself on the answer.
All that stuff about being panicky and reactionary wasn't about you, it was actually directed at Powder Miner, but I could see how you got confused about that. I got confused about it looking back just now too.
Taricus:That last bit there is the reason WHY I'm not saying much. I can't do that.I'm not quitting, I'm just trying to think up something that won't get me dogpiled.You shouldn't be afraid to speak your mind. If you say what's on your mind and are honest and forthright, people will listen to you. You may get attention if your reasons or logic sucks, but that gives you a chance to clarify it.
Taricus:That last bit there is the reason WHY I'm not saying much. I can't do that.I'm not quitting, I'm just trying to think up something that won't get me dogpiled.You shouldn't be afraid to speak your mind. If you say what's on your mind and are honest and forthright, people will listen to you. You may get attention if your reasons or logic sucks, but that gives you a chance to clarify it.
Well, Toaster, for one, he's Only aq little bit susipicious at this point due to him acting less scummy. And my passive play? You must be blind. If you open your eyes, you'll see that I actually got annoyed and pulled Taricus over here, and... guess what: I asked a question! Oh, what a shocker (sarcasm if you fail to understand it as such)! Now, YOU on the other hand, I haven't seen many posts from you and certainly not a lot of scumhunting. So are YOU being passive? (Heck, you're the only one who wasn't voting up until now. Hmm....)
Anyway, It won't hurt to scumhunt someone else.
How about you, Unvote, Jim Groovester? Who do you find most and second most scummy right now?
Taricus:That last bit there is the reason WHY I'm not saying much. I can't do that.I'm not quitting, I'm just trying to think up something that won't get me dogpiled.You shouldn't be afraid to speak your mind. If you say what's on your mind and are honest and forthright, people will listen to you. You may get attention if your reasons or logic sucks, but that gives you a chance to clarify it.
You generally want to stay very grounded in your accusations. If you start thinking too far ahead of the facts you start losing sight of what actually made somebody scummy. You can still make suppositions about the motives behind someone's actions, but if you start thinking that everything somebody does is scummy or that everything is part of some scummy plan to be incredibly devious and mislead the town, you're taking it too far.
That last bit there is the reason WHY I'm not saying much. I can't do that.
You're funny.
I request a spoilspec and get an invitation to replace someone. Der fuck.
Sure, I guess. Just don't put me officially in till the end of day1. I need to read the thread.
Jim, I've already told you my reasons, but: I've been going onto Taricus because of that OMGUS and his lurking. But now it's seeming more like it's not because he's scummy, but just noobtells, although I'm not really good enoughn to tell the difference. Yet I'm still going to press him because I'm not convinced he's town, he hasn't been lynched, and I'm not dead. So I'll continue to press him. I hope that clears it up.
That was me tripping on my own inexperience.
Then, to scumhunt more people, I'm going to wait until Okami coomes on beause I'm going to question him. And I've stated before that I was a little suspicious of Okami, and because he bugs me, I'm going to scumhunt him, which you seem to have a problem with me doing (scumhunting) for some reason.
Actually, I do want to lift a finger against Okami.
1. I don't understand what you're trying with the profanity. I'm simply calling him out. And if you look at my previous post, I really did say that he'd attempt to call me out on passivity- an argument he's been recycling- and he did. And he has been refusing to answer my points, he's just been continuing to use the same question (Which Toaster had just used against me mind you). I don't see the problem.
2. I've never attempted to focus ONLY on Taricus. Doing so would be bad for town. I'm scumhunting multiplem people. And judging by his tunneling, I'm guessing I'm being fairly successful. And Taricus is also an easy lynch. I want to see about other people as well before I go for a throat.
3. My suspicions? I still have them. I just don't HAVE any actual questions for him yet and I don't want to steal an argument.
4. I'm certainly not attacking Jim for scum behavior. Tunneling, deflection, OMGUS, and recycling arguments are in no way IC behavior. They're scum behavior. Why are you defending Jim from my scumhunting over that?
5. Again with the profanity. No idea what you're trying to prove there.
Stop tunneling.
Stop recycling the same argument over and over again.
Sotp deflecting.
Don't OMGUS.
Do I really have to plead with you to get you to use logic?
So, Okami. Why would you not scumhunt directly? Why would you have to weave an elaborate supposed bandwagon trap, and end up using it to blame someone of being scum, namely everyone else who scumhunts Taricus. And then why would you have to defend Taricus? Why not just go out and scumhunt.
That was easier than expected.
I don't like how you're purposely twisting Okami's words here. He's not saying "show" he's saying "to show for my efforts," which denotes a meaning that translates to "to get from all this."Continuing to interrogate Taricus wasn't exactly getting me anywhere. I don't like doing work and then having nothing to show for my efforts.Ah, so I was right. You were just pressuring Taricus for show.
Heliman now. He's already parroting Jim. Presciently, even.Excuse me? Where and how.
(Debasing my reaons to get me off of people is something you seem to be doing a lot lately: I believe it's called chainsaw defending)With no scum flips, a suspected Chainsaw defense is a Null Tell.
Oh, and scumhunting aggressively does NOT equal flipping out, so you know? Why are you so annoyed about me scumhunting you and Think, Jim?Powder, if there's anyone flipping teh fuck out right now, it's you, to the point where you're even getting worked up over cussing.
Why are you pressing me so hard to only go for Okami, who you're trying to get lynched?No he isn't still going for Okami, he's going after you. You know, with that red vote that looks kinda like Unvote,Vote Powder Mines (hoo hoo subtle vote haa haa)
That's right Jim, your attempts to get me to stop scumhunting you have failed.
Oh, and what's a scum flip?
And what IS a null tell? No idea.
@Jim,I don't like how you're purposely twisting Okami's words here. He's not saying "show" he's saying "to show for my efforts," which denotes a meaning that translates to "to get from all this."Continuing to interrogate Taricus wasn't exactly getting me anywhere. I don't like doing work and then having nothing to show for my efforts.Ah, so I was right. You were just pressuring Taricus for show.
I always flip out about profanity.
Jim, I DO seriously think you're scum. I've been scumhunting you all this time, or at least been trying to.
I always flip out about profanity.Oh fuck, that's a problem then, If you saw [img=http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=78826.0]The Why would you do that Mafia game going on right now you would probably herniate or something.[img]
And I didn't say that he's going only after Okami. I said that he's trying to get me to only go after Okami.Again, you said "Why are you pressing me so hard to only go for Okami, who you're trying to get lynched?" The second part of the sentence clearly accuses Jim of trying to get Okami Lynched, so the sentence reads "Why are you pressing me so hard" then "to only go for Okami" then "who you're trying to get lynched?"
And also, Heliman I didn't say that Jim was flipping out. You're misunderstanding what I'm saying pretty badly.If you make a whole new post starting with "Oh, and scumhunting aggressively does NOT equal flipping out, so you know?" followed by a sentence that says "Why are you so annoyed about me scumhunting you and Think, Jim?" I can only assume that you're referencing to Jim.
|I don't like how you're purposely twisting Okami's words here. He's not saying "show" he's saying "to show for my efforts," which denotes a meaning that translates to "to get from all this."Continuing to interrogate Taricus wasn't exactly getting me anywhere. I don't like doing work and then having nothing to show for my efforts.Ah, so I was right. You were just pressuring Taricus for show.
Yep, I know.
But Okami No Rei's hard to attack. I don't like what he's doing but don't have a perfect answer for how to deal with him.
I don't think I'm wrong about it though. I do think he only pressured Taricus because he thought he would be an easy target as well as to make a show of scumhunting, because it was clear almost from the moment Taricus spoke that he was only inexperienced. But I'm at a complete loss about how to nail him to the wall about it. I tried what you pointed out to see if I could get anything to stick.
Nope.
I'll use this to point out that this is excellent advice for everybody. As a member of the town, you want to be as open and transparent as possible. (Barring information about your role, of course.)Well if you knew what he meant beforehand, you aren't following your own advice. You're not being transparent by hiding what you really feel about a statement. That doesn't look like a townie thing to do.
But seriously though, you took that passivity thing from Toaster.
Jim Groovster: I was off playing a game for half an hour.
I actually don't have very many suspicions besides Taricus, although the reasoning you people've been bringing to bear on Okami is beginnign to make me suspicious of Okami. However, I'll refrain from voting until I question Okami myself. Because otherwise it would be a bandwagon, and from personal experience, (I've tried hosting several Mafia games on a forum Igo to), bandwagons don't usually end well for town.
I'll use this to point out that this is excellent advice for everybody. As a member of the town, you want to be as open and transparent as possible. (Barring information about your role, of course.)Well if you knew what he meant beforehand, you aren't following your own advice. You're not being transparent by hiding what you really feel about a statement. That doesn't look like a townie thing to do.
Good, and very necessary if do want to win and/or survive ingame.
I'm pretty sure that's the only way to play mafia.I love it when people use what I say against me.I'll use this to point out that this is excellent advice for everybody. As a member of the town, you want to be as open and transparent as possible. (Barring information about your role, of course.)Well if you knew what he meant beforehand, you aren't following your own advice. You're not being transparent by hiding what you really feel about a statement. That doesn't look like a townie thing to do.
I made a shaky accusation to see if it would turn anything up. This is known as reaction testing. It's a fairly common tactic, and the only reason it's not very effective is because pretty much everybody can recognize what's going on. It is, unfortunately, in apparent violation of what I said about being transparent, because it's a tactic that requires some subtlety. I can't tell Okami No Rei that I'm testing for his reaction, now can I?In the same way, wouldn't what Okami did be reaction testing? Why would you agree with me in the first place if that was the case?
Replacement needed? Huh. I feel like playing a rather plain game (haven't played anything but BYOR-type games for a bit), so...I'm in, if that's acceptable.I think Breadbocks is already subbing in.
Well, I'm posting more and I'm starting to ask a few questions so I'd say I'm starting.
I made a shaky accusation to see if it would turn anything up. This is known as reaction testing. It's a fairly common tactic, and the only reason it's not very effective is because pretty much everybody can recognize what's going on. It is, unfortunately, in apparent violation of what I said about being transparent, because it's a tactic that requires some subtlety. I can't tell Okami No Rei that I'm testing for his reaction, now can I?In the same way, wouldn't what Okami did be reaction testing? Why would you agree with me in the first place if that was the case?
I love it when people use what I say against me.I'm pretty sure that's the only way to play mafia.
I'm going to need some seriou s advice on how to play once this is over.
So... your saying that your advice is really meaningless statements presented as if they were significant?Well, yeah, but I seem especially prone to people using my mafia platitudes as attacks against me or a defense against what I have to say about them.I love it when people use what I say against me.I'm pretty sure that's the only way to play mafia.
Where does the line between a lie and a reaction test end, exactly?Yeah, that was reaction testing. But I don't like it and I don't believe that he was doing it to try and catch scum. Or even that he was actually trying to do a reaction test in the first place.I made a shaky accusation to see if it would turn anything up. This is known as reaction testing. It's a fairly common tactic, and the only reason it's not very effective is because pretty much everybody can recognize what's going on. It is, unfortunately, in apparent violation of what I said about being transparent, because it's a tactic that requires some subtlety. I can't tell Okami No Rei that I'm testing for his reaction, now can I?In the same way, wouldn't what Okami did be reaction testing? Why would you agree with me in the first place if that was the case?
I agreed with you because I actually was twisting his words, but I knew full well what I was doing and what I was trying to accomplish by doing that.
There's nothing wrong with reaction testing, and there's nothing wrong on the surface about what I did or what Okami No Rei did. It comes down to a question of motives, just like everything else.
I think he was trying to be malicious about it, so it ultimately comes down to whether you think I was trying to do the same when I was testing for his reaction.And ultimately, your defense comes down to a WIFOM scenario.
So... your saying that your advice is really meaningless statements presented as if they were significant?
Where does the line between a lie and a reaction test end, exactly?
And ultimately, your defense comes down to a WIFOM scenario.
Unvote
Vote Jim Groovester.
Then you may want to look at the definition of "platitudes" again.So... your saying that your advice is really meaningless statements presented as if they were significant?
No, it's good advice. It's definitely worth listening to.
In saying "Ah, so I was right. You were just pressuring Taricus for show." Because you knew that your interpretation truly wasn't what he meant, you made, strictly speaking, a lie. You say you used this lie as a mechanism for a reaction test, so I'm asking you, where's the difference? What makes the lie suddenly okay? Okami didn't lie when he tried to do a reaction test, he just aggrandized the truth, so what stopped you from doing the same?Where does the line between a lie and a reaction test end, exactly?I have no idea what you're talking about. There's no specific relationship between lies and reaction tests so I don't know why you're asking for the line between the two.
And ultimately, your defense comes down to a WIFOM scenario.What the hell are you talking about, that's not a WIFOM scenario.
Unvote
Vote Jim Groovester.
In saying "Ah, so I was right. You were just pressuring Taricus for show." Because you knew that your interpretation truly wasn't what he meant, you made, strictly speaking, a lie. You say you used this lie as a mechanism for a reaction test, so I'm asking you, where's the difference? What makes the lie suddenly okay? Okami didn't lie when he tried to do a reaction test, he just aggrandized the truth, so what stopped you from doing the same?Where does the line between a lie and a reaction test end, exactly?I have no idea what you're talking about. There's no specific relationship between lies and reaction tests so I don't know why you're asking for the line between the two.
WIFOM is the circular reasoning that results from trying to determine the choices of an opponent who acted with full knowledge that his behavior would be subject to scrutiny. Your defense was telling me that in order for me to consider you scum, I have to decide weather or not your actions were malicious. This means that you invited me decide weather or not you were scum by scrutinizing your behavior and therefore formed the following question: "Why would I do something malicious if I'm Town?"And ultimately, your defense comes down to a WIFOM scenario.What the hell are you talking about, that's not a WIFOM scenario.
Unvote
Vote Jim Groovester.
If I were trying to use WIFOM to defend myself I would be saying something along these lines: "Why would I do something as x if I were y?"
Do you see me doing that? No. I've explained exactly what I was doing completely unambiguously.
Would you like to vote me for something else you clearly don't have a full understanding of? I would love to correct you about it.
Flummoxed? I don't need to hear complaints like that from an IC. I've only been around a bit and I've already caught him with a scum slip that many people are giving him the eye for! Perhaps you can't find an avenue of attack because you're scum and you know that he's town?In saying "Ah, so I was right. You were just pressuring Taricus for show." Because you knew that your interpretation truly wasn't what he meant, you made, strictly speaking, a lie. You say you used this lie as a mechanism for a reaction test, so I'm asking you, where's the difference? What makes the lie suddenly okay? Okami didn't lie when he tried to do a reaction test, he just aggrandized the truth, so what stopped you from doing the same?Where does the line between a lie and a reaction test end, exactly?I have no idea what you're talking about. There's no specific relationship between lies and reaction tests so I don't know why you're asking for the line between the two.
I tried to get him to slip up. I used a lie to do this. It's a tactic. I explained exactly what I was doing and what its purpose was when I was asked. If it worked I would have ended up with something usable, more than a worthy goal. It didn't work. Just because it didn't doesn't mean the attempt was some horribly scummy thing to do. (I'll mention that there are tactics out there that are completely dangerous and stupid and scummy to use; a worthy goal doesn't justify using a tactic if it's incredibly risky, but the most that could happen from reaction testing is that somebody points out that you're reaction testing. It's a pretty safe thing to do.)
What would I have used to 'aggrandize the truth'? I used what I thought I could since I've already stated Okami No Rei is hard to attack. I did everything I could think of to do.
'Aggrandizing the truth' still would've been dishonest of me, so if you've got a problem with just the dishonesty itself I guess you're suggesting that I shouldn't try anything at all if I'm completely flummoxed by a difficult opponent where my normal methods wouldn't work at all.
To say that statement twice in a row without a reason would just be a pointless waste of space, because everyone, especially me, knows that already. But, you put meaning behind your statement by posting it and I can only take that meaning as a concealed WIFOM. WIFOM isn't good WIFOM just because it comes in a pretty bottle, sometimes the best WIFOM doesn't even have a label.Well, then, you should clarify. I did not use WIFOM. I did nothing of the sort. You're just reading too much into what I said and putting words in my mouth that I did not say or mean. Now who's fault is that?WIFOM is the circular reasoning that results from trying to determine the choices of an opponent who acted with full knowledge that his behavior would be subject to scrutiny. Your defense was telling me that in order for me to consider you scum, I have to decide weather or not your actions were malicious. This means that you invited me decide weather or not you were scum by scrutinizing your behavior and therefore formed the following question: "Why would I do something malicious if I'm Town?"And ultimately, your defense comes down to a WIFOM scenario.What the hell are you talking about, that's not a WIFOM scenario.
Unvote
Vote Jim Groovester.
If I were trying to use WIFOM to defend myself I would be saying something along these lines: "Why would I do something as x if I were y?"
Do you see me doing that? No. I've explained exactly what I was doing completely unambiguously.
Would you like to vote me for something else you clearly don't have a full understanding of? I would love to correct you about it.
I told you to look at it and make a judgment for yourself. In case it's not obvious, that's what you're supposed to be doing for everything you come across.
Why are you saying I've tried using WIFOM when I told you to do something that isn't even remotely remarkable or objectionable at all?
Flummoxed? I don't need to hear complaints like that from an IC. I've only been around a bit and I've already caught him with a scum slip that many people are giving him the eye for! Perhaps you can't find an avenue of attack because you're scum and you know that he's town?
You can use almost any fact to aggrandize the truth. Fact+Suitably Ridiculous Summation= Aggrandized truth, Case in point, the last sentence of my first paragraph would be one such aggrandized truth.
Also you seem to be vague about "If it worked." You know full well that Okami wasn't going to cave to pressure, what were you expecting?
To say that statement twice in a row without a reason would just be a pointless waste of space, because everyone, especially me, knows that already. But, you put meaning behind your statement by posting it and I can only take that meaning as a concealed WIFOM. WIFOM isn't good WIFOM just because it comes in a pretty bottle, sometimes the best WIFOM doesn't even have a label.
So..... Okami, why haven't you been posting?
Good, and very necessary if do want to win and/or survive ingame.
I don't like how you're purposely twisting Okami's words here. He's not saying "show" he's saying "to show for my efforts," which denotes a meaning that translates to "to get from all this."Continuing to interrogate Taricus wasn't exactly getting me anywhere. I don't like doing work and then having nothing to show for my efforts.Ah, so I was right. You were just pressuring Taricus for show.
Supercharizad: Why haven't you posted today?
Technically yesterday for me, different timezones and that.
I have to start the ball rolling.
Supercharazad: You seem a bit on edge today, why?
Supercharazad: You seem a bit on edge today, why?
Wait, is the day over? Is it too late to ask for an extension and a votecount?
Sorry. You're right. That was out of line."Us vs Him" would be more appropriate, in this case. I'm quite frustrated with his behaviour. I second the call to Replace Taricus.
No, absolutely not. Not a fucking chance.
This is a Beginner's Game. If he's got issues with his play, then he's in the right place.
Who the fucking hell do you think you are to demand replacements of other players in a Beginner's Game?
Powder Miner unvoted.
I think that's the only error.
I don't really know about Jim anymore, but I refused because I wanted to wait for Okami to post something I could bite into instea of recycling arguments.
I don't really know about Jim anymore, but I refused because I wanted to wait for Okami to post something I could bite into instea of recycling arguments.
This is a start, but the question is weak. You should have enough content by now to be asking prying questions regarding statements the target has made, not offhand questions that could be dismissed with a simple "I've been busy."
...and that "two scum with flawless towngames" quote that Heliman had noticed.
He did explain it? Where?
I don't know that, but I would be very concerned about scum getting one-on-one coaching from him, and it's the worst case scenario I'm assuming in any theories around his being scum.
My accusations of Supercharazad are independent of his jumpiness, and I also found Anzki. Deliberately failed bandwagon. Successful scumhunt.I did expect things to happen in the 18 hours I was gone. On my return, I analyzed what had happened. The bandwagon did materialize, and one of the members looked like scum. I am now interrogating him. Had the bandwagon never materialized, which is what I assume you meant, I'd have come up with a new plan, or revised my old one to work in the new environment.
You got Supercharazad, the (now second) jumpiest player I've ever seen on this forums, and Powder Miner, who as we now see is extremely excitable, to actually vote. I'd count that as a failed bandwagon.
To save myself? No. I already said I did it to salvage a day of failed scumhunting.Quote from: Okami no ReiBecause Taricus (FAKEDIT: And now Powder Miner, I suppose) is the easy lynch right now. The ones that hopped on the bandwagon aren't so easy as you seem to think, since everyone's looking at them as victims right now. I'm pushing for one of them because I think one of them is scum, not because he's easy.They're looking at them as victims because you called them out as the culmination to a half-assed plot you grabbed to try and save yourself.
The easy lynches are the guy you were pushing for and the guy who flipped out in the middle of your posting, so you can hardly say that you were good and noble and virtuous not pushing for Powder Miner.His flipout looked like honest panic rather than scum panic to me at the time that I posted. I wouldn't say I was good, noble, and virtuous as much as tired, confused, and not ready to deal with this right now.
You're voting for a guy who agreed with you when you were supposedly acting as town. This is all just you sowing suspicion now that your attempts to take someone down are failing.I'm voting for the guy who I believe to be semi-experienced jumping onto a bandwagon and then lying about the reasons he gave for jumping on, and the guy who more or less subtly supported said bandwagon. These two are the first people I've seriously pushed to take down, and I don't see it failing yet.
I'm not 'sowing doubt' as you say. I'm making a prediction based on my grasp of the current situation combined with the restrictions Toaster placed on the request.Quote from: Okami no ReiTaricus is OMGUSing, which is a nulltell like everything else about him. Heliman and Think are following Jim as the Voice of Authority and Reason. Not a scumtell, since he's an IC. Jim's is the only vote that really means anything. At least one is scum? Very likely if I'm wrong about Super and Anzki. Which one is the question. I'm still working out Jim's game. I'd lay even odds that Think or Heliman is scum. Are both? Taricus and Think are the only possibility that springs to mind. Heliman and Jim are a longshot. None of the other combinations work.
Lumping me in with the guy who refuses to say anything, thanks. So I'm possibly scum because I agree with two other people (and one who's OMGUSing you, but he's not relevant to this conversation)? This is all just sowing doubt to distract us from the issues at hand.
You tried to lead an attack on someone, it failed, and now you're trying to use that attack to implicate other people. You aren't scumhunting. You're scum.I tried to press someone, and got stonewalled, so I pressed harder and am now hunting people based on their reactions to my actions.
If Okami's latest post is true, and he saw Jim's post before quitting, he knew even back then that it was instantly called out as not helpful for town and didn't explain himself then. Okami, why do you still think your plan has merit? Why did you go through with it after Jim called you out?Jim didn't call me out on my plan, he called me out on pressing Taricus. Pressing Taricus alone had no further merit. That's why I decided to press harder and trawl for reactions. All Jim calling me out on it did was push forward my timeline. I still believe my plan has merit because I still believe it caught scum.
Why are you so certain that of the two people who voted with you, a scum was one of them?Because he slipped up.
If we believe you that you were pressing Taricus to get him to play better, why don't we believe Supercharazad, who repeatedly pressed Taricus on being a better player?Your comparison of us lies on faulty logic. If I made you a sandwich out of peanut butter and jelly, and he made you a sandwich out of peanut butter and cyanide, would we be equally at fault because we both used peanut butter?
Okami No Rei, why Supercharazad over anzki4? You've accused both of them of similar things, and in my mind, what anzki4 did was worse, what with parroting Supercharazad over broken quote tags. I think your points about Supercharazad parroting you are, quite frankly, crap, and calling him a liar when it could just as easily be that he saw the same things about Taricus that you did is stretching it pretty far. anzki4, though, you've got something there, something I can totally see, so why's your vote on Supercharazad?Because I pieced the post together chronologically, and I'd already written my vote onto him when I got to anzki. Both deserve it.
That seems inconsistent. And lies? Yeah, right. That's hyberpole to make what Supercharazad did seem scummier than what it actually was. In other words, that was disingenuous and you should be lynched for it.One lie. Claiming his arguments were his own and not that of others.
So, basically, you're saying I shouldn't play because other people get to see their posts before me?Every single post I provided as evidence against your claim was posted prior to your own. You're saying you didn't see them? They were there for you to read. I can understand missing one, but all of them?
You think I should stay perfectly silent because my arguments have been used once before?No, but when your sole justification for speaking out is clearly a fabrication, that tends to set off a few alarm bells.
So, Okami. Why would you not scumhunt directly?I was scumhunting directly, and I was also scumhunting indirectly. I've been attacking on multiple fronts the entire game.
Why would you have to weave an elaborate supposed bandwagon trap,Because I can.
and end up using it to blame someone of being scum, namely everyone else who scumhunts Taricus.Get your facts straight. I was looking for reactions. Joining the bandwagon is a reaction. The manner in which they joined the bandwagon is the important part, and the part I'm using against people.
And then why would you have to defend Taricus?I'm not defending him. Please provide evidence.
Why not just go out and scumhunt.Because it's more Fun this way.
That was easier than expected.Keep it up, then.
Okami, who you're trying to get lynched?Supercharazad and anzki4
So..... Okami, why haven't you been posting?I've been busy.
@OkamiHeliman now. He's already parroting Jim. Presciently, even.Excuse me? Where and how?
@Think
Okami. Why? WHY??? Ok I'll tell you.
@Okami
I'm not falling for this load of "Oh no I was just pretending to hunt newbie scum the others scum hunting this guy are the real scum!" Bullshit. This entire charade could easily be an attempt to quell the players suspicious of you for going after the weakest link. It doesn't automatically justify a sham of a scum hunt followed by a planned lurk, it just introduces WIFOM into the equation.
Since you're clearly not a beginner, I'll tell you straight.It's not a perfect comparison, but it did allow me to use the word parrot.
That plan is stupid.
You'll just as easily catch inexperienced town as you will inexperienced scum. And since the game's full of inexperienced players, how actually worthwhile are the results you got?
To everybody else who isn't a beginner: Don't even think about trying to be clever. I don't want to see any clever plans or carefully laid traps or anything like that. If I have anything to say about it you'll learn a decent, basic, fundamental town game first, and then after you've got the basics down, then you can think about being clever.
Everybody got that? NO CLEVER PLANS. Good fundamental scumhunting habits are vastly more important.
He did explain it? Where?
I don't know that, but I would be very concerned about scum getting one-on-one coaching from him, and it's the worst case scenario I'm assuming in any theories around his being scum.*does a spittake*Okami no Rei, who would you be most afraid of if they were scum?Jim - Because then there'd be two scum running around with flawless towngames.
What? Two flawless scum? how could you possibly know that?Okami:Powder Miner was my choice up until this post:Okami no Rei, who would you be most afraid of if they were scum?Jim - Because then there'd be two scum running around with flawless towngames.
So who's the other scum with a flawless towngame?Not posting, just privately. Shoulda made it clear. Middle school keeps me from posting most of the day. And I meant before I NOTICED he made the point. Never mind. Anyway, I'm keeping my vote on Tarius because he's still scummy seeming and I'm afraid I'll get accused of bandwagoning if I vote for Okami.
Heliman now. He's already parroting Jim. Presciently, even.
And you're right. I AM waiting for Okami to post, because I haven't been paying attention to his posts.You couldn't take the time to sit down and read his posts? If you're really a townie, why couldn't you just wait a little while to respond and formulate a good response? I think the reason you couldn't wait was because you're scum and you wanted your reputation cleared as soon as possible.
Toaster - If no one else posted for the rest of the day, would you leave your vote on Powder Miner or switch it to me?
Okami No Rei, why Supercharazad over anzki4? You've accused both of them of similar things, and in my mind, what anzki4 did was worse, what with parroting Supercharazad over broken quote tags. I think your points about Supercharazad parroting you are, quite frankly, crap, and calling him a liar when it could just as easily be that he saw the same things about Taricus that you did is stretching it pretty far. anzki4, though, you've got something there, something I can totally see, so why's your vote on Supercharazad?Because I pieced the post together chronologically, and I'd already written my vote onto him when I got to anzki. Both deserve it.
Why didn't you question anzki about parroting, if it's so awful?
That seems inconsistent. And lies? Yeah, right. That's hyberpole to make what Supercharazad did seem scummier than what it actually was. In other words, that was disingenuous and you should be lynched for it.One lie. Claiming his arguments were his own and not that of others.
Powder Miner - You're panicking, dropping WIFOM like candy, and making excuses. Why shouldn't I drop everything and vote you right now?
Okami:Ideally, yes. However, the choice for me is less clear cut, since I won't be around at days end.Toaster - If no one else posted for the rest of the day, would you leave your vote on Powder Miner or switch it to me?
Nasty choice. I'm pretty convinced Powder is scum, and you ping only faintly on my scumdar. No-lynch helps no one, so I probably would switch as a last resort.
I assume you'd switch to Powder to prevent a no-lynch?
Sure can. If it's important, I do.Okami No Rei, why Supercharazad over anzki4? You've accused both of them of similar things, and in my mind, what anzki4 did was worse, what with parroting Supercharazad over broken quote tags. I think your points about Supercharazad parroting you are, quite frankly, crap, and calling him a liar when it could just as easily be that he saw the same things about Taricus that you did is stretching it pretty far. anzki4, though, you've got something there, something I can totally see, so why's your vote on Supercharazad?Because I pieced the post together chronologically, and I'd already written my vote onto him when I got to anzki. Both deserve it.
Why didn't you question anzki about parroting, if it's so awful?
So, what? You can't go back and edit your post halfway through?
I asked you why Supercharazad was more worthy of a vote, and your answer is that you put red text around Supercharazad's name first?I didn't, and still don't, have any reason to suspect one over the other.
That's weak.
I didn't question anzki4 about it because 1) I'm not obsessed with calling everybody a parrot like you are, and 2) it looked like a noob mistake.Didn't you just say
in my mind, what anzki4 did was worse, what with parroting Supercharazad over broken quote tags. I think your points about Supercharazad parroting youYou're appear to be more obsessed with the parroting than I am, and seem to think anzki's parroting was important.
I don't think he's scum, and this close to day end, I'm not going to put my vote on him just to apply pressure. I'm voting to lynch.Powder Miner - You're panicking, dropping WIFOM like candy, and making excuses. Why shouldn't I drop everything and vote you right now?
Good question. Why aren't you? Those are several very good reasons to vote for somebody. What's holding you back? You're not partners with him, are you?
Votecount:
Supercharazard - 1 - Okami No Rei
I asked you why Supercharazad was more worthy of a vote, and your answer is that you put red text around Supercharazad's name first?I didn't, and still don't, have any reason to suspect one over the other.
That's weak.
I didn't question anzki4 about it because 1) I'm not obsessed with calling everybody a parrot like you are, and 2) it looked like a noob mistake.Didn't you just sayin my mind, what anzki4 did was worse, what with parroting Supercharazad over broken quote tags. I think your points about Supercharazad parroting youYou're appear to be more obsessed with the parroting than I am, and seem to think anzki's parroting was important.
So, is it or isn't it?
I've never been attacking anzki for parroting.
Something making you nervous, Heliman?? What make's you so distracted arguing against yourself?And now you're trying to cover your tracks after Jim called you out on not directly attacking me, by going after Heliman over what? A post that's clearly mangled only due to some quote tagging errors? You're really reaching now.
I've never been attacking Supercharazad for parroting.
Supercharazad - You're rehashing my arguments without providing original material, you were the third vote on the bandwagon, and judging by your post history, you've been around long enough to know better. Explain yourself.
I don't think he's scum, and this close to day end, I'm not going to put my vote on him just to apply pressure. I'm voting to lynch.Powder Miner - You're panicking, dropping WIFOM like candy, and making excuses. Why shouldn't I drop everything and vote you right now?
Good question. Why aren't you? Those are several very good reasons to vote for somebody. What's holding you back? You're not partners with him, are you?
You can use almost any fact to aggrandize the truth. Fact+Suitably Ridiculous Summation= Aggrandized truth, Case in point, the last sentence of my first paragraph would be one such aggrandized truth.
What about: "So I was right: You were just pressuring Taricus for show."
I mean, it meets your criteria.
Fact: Okami No Rei was pressuring Taricus.
Suitably Ridiculous Summation: He was doing it for show.
Incorrect. I made that sentence with the sole intention of using it as an example in the next paragraph. According to what I have learned, a reaction test has no weight if caught out in the open, so pointing it out as a reaction test in my the very next paragraph would be a tad pointless if such a test was my intention.Also you seem to be vague about "If it worked." You know full well that Okami wasn't going to cave to pressure, what were you expecting?
What are you expecting with your aggrandized truth in your first paragraph? You can't be expecting much. But you did it anyway. Why? I bet you thought it wouldn't hurt.
Same deal.
You're mincing words here. I'd be lying if I said I hadn't minced words in the past, but I really think you've got nothing here. Yes, you should be open, but you can't tell someone why you're asking them a question if you're looking for a specific reaction out of them.But Jim didn't look for a specific reaction, did he? I'm pretty sure he just said that it wouldn't hurt.
Just so I'm clear at what's going on in your head, who is your #2 pick and why?Well now that were on that, my first pick is Okami once again, now that he's finally posted. Yes like Powder I was waiting for him to show up but I made sure I didn't twiddle my thumbs in the meantime. But since he's my first scum pick now, the second one is Powder, because of those outbursts of his. It doesn't look like how the classic newbie town would panic to me, but that's just opinion.
My accusations of Supercharazad are independent of his jumpiness, and I also found Anzki. Deliberately failed bandwagon. Successful scumhunt.Scumhunts aren't successful until something flips scum, you have to convince town to do that. Considering the votes at the moment, you haven't been doing much of that.
Oh and were supposed to believe everything you say then? Yeah, right.To save myself? No. I already said I did it to salvage a day of failed scumhunting.Quote from: Okami no ReiBecause Taricus (FAKEDIT: And now Powder Miner, I suppose) is the easy lynch right now. The ones that hopped on the bandwagon aren't so easy as you seem to think, since everyone's looking at them as victims right now. I'm pushing for one of them because I think one of them is scum, not because he's easy.They're looking at them as victims because you called them out as the culmination to a half-assed plot you grabbed to try and save yourself.
No it doesn't allow for calling me a parrot. My post in this instance came before Jim's. I can't be called for parroting things that haven't been said yet. This is a pretty weak gambit to try and group me together with Jim and Think (at least I think it was Think) just so our points seem less important.@OkamiHeliman now. He's already parroting Jim. Presciently, even.Excuse me? Where and how?
I was thinking of these two posts:@Think
Okami. Why? WHY??? Ok I'll tell you.
@Okami
I'm not falling for this load of "Oh no I was just pretending to hunt newbie scum the others scum hunting this guy are the real scum!" Bullshit. This entire charade could easily be an attempt to quell the players suspicious of you for going after the weakest link. It doesn't automatically justify a sham of a scum hunt followed by a planned lurk, it just introduces WIFOM into the equation.Since you're clearly not a beginner, I'll tell you straight.It's not a perfect comparison, but it did allow me to use the word parrot.
That plan is stupid.
You'll just as easily catch inexperienced town as you will inexperienced scum. And since the game's full of inexperienced players, how actually worthwhile are the results you got?
To everybody else who isn't a beginner: Don't even think about trying to be clever. I don't want to see any clever plans or carefully laid traps or anything like that. If I have anything to say about it you'll learn a decent, basic, fundamental town game first, and then after you've got the basics down, then you can think about being clever.
Everybody got that? NO CLEVER PLANS. Good fundamental scumhunting habits are vastly more important.
I'll admit that I'm panicky as heck, and was making a few excuses in my feeble attempt to defend against Jim.
But WIFOM? What WIFOM? I have no circular reasoning, anf you really shouldn't try to just drop the word WIFOM in there to try to get me on a false charge. IT's worse than what I was just doing.
Also, why are you trying to lynch anzki when he didn't even get on the bandwagon, and has only been questioned a little bit?
Super: I'm not seeing enough content out of you to satisfy me. Can you restate your cases on your top two or three picks?
Well, I don't know what questions to ask, so could you give me a few pointers? (If you already have, mind linking me back to it?0
Taricus, you bother me.FoS Taricus.
Taricus, you bother me.FoS Taricus.
Why?
Yes, you have to say why, even if it's "obvious."
Taricus, you bother me.FoS Taricus.
Why?
Yes, you have to say why, even if it's "obvious."
Because he bothers me.
Why are you trying to defend him, Toaster?
Et tu, assassin assholes? Then fall! Heliman!Ah, gotta love the "Bah" post. Always interesting to see what people say. And on the same vein of death, LNCP, did you remember to give the lynchee(s) the deadchat link?
I didn't refuse to press. I was waiting for another post from him because I hate recycling other people's ideas- as I've had to mention several times, but which has been repeatedly ignored by you, Think.
And wait, he claimed I was town? I didn't really notice that. Where, please? The only time he mention me-at least as far as I can see. is in his bandwagon trap, and not to call me town.
I don't think he's scum, and this close to day end, I'm not going to put my vote on him just to apply pressure. I'm voting to lynch.
So, Toaster, why do you think Powder is suspicious enough to earn a second vote this early into D2? Think clearly stated why he thought Powder was suspicious, but you just look like you're looking for an excuse to bandwagon with "Who are your top two suspects now? Why?".
Taricus, you bother me.FoS Taricus.
Why?
Yes, you have to say why, even if it's "obvious."
Because he bothers me.
Why are you trying to defend him, Toaster?
Valar morghulis.
So you've got an afternoon to play RTDs and other Forum games but not a moment to spare for mafia.Thread locked before I could ask for a Replace though...
Right.
Sure.
Hectic.
Toaster, the last Beginner's Game where both ICs survived through to the second day was when you were scum.
Is there something I should look into there?
I hate how I'm scummy-looking enough to be getting scum advice when I'm not even scum.
Super: Have your suspicions changed any?
So, supercharazad, do you have any reasoning other than "Hiding something?" and "You bother me", or are you going to bandwagon and OMGUD all day long?
Super: ... Okami's dead.
Are you paying attention?
Do you have a secondary pick besides Powder?
unvote, Vote Taricus
And the Day 1 OMGUSFoS. I'm not stupid, I actually look for evidence when I pressure someone.
Further fakeedit: Gah, what was I thinking calling you passive at all? I need to check the pages I've been gone for more closely.
Wow. You need reasons, not just jumping on bandwagons all day long.
So what are you doing? What do you expect to gain from pressing players who aren't here?
You're missing critical facts about players you 'suspect', so I'm starting to get the sense that you're more interested in the appearance of scumhunting than actually scumhunting.
Because, you know, a critical part of scumhunting is paying attention to what's going on.
Oh, yeah. I keep wondering about shortens. Since it seems their's nothing going on right now, why would it be better to wait for the day to end, rather than just going on and ending it, so we can either finish the game, or move on to the point where there would be stuff to discuss?
So, Super. Why did you bandwagon Taricus D1, and go back at him later in the day with a simple "You bother me?" And don't give the excuse: "I'm applying pressure!" You're nto applying pressure if you're not asking questions or even providing reasoning. You had another reason for doing those votes, and it wasn't pressure.
I think the day should be over, so I'll throw out a word on extensions and shortenings.^
Seriously though, Powder should get a fair chance to set up a defense. Someone may want to grill someone else.If you thought Powder should have gotten a fair chance to set up a defense, why did you think the day should have ended there?
The fuck is going on.What is confusing to you?
I think the day should be over, so I'll throw out a word on extensions and shortenings.^
|
VSeriously though, Powder should get a fair chance to set up a defense. Someone may want to grill someone else.If you thought Powder should have gotten a fair chance to set up a defense, why did you think the day should have ended there?
But judging by the diction in the post you said that yesterday, you weren't taking the mod-timer seriously.I thought the day should have ended as in that post was made past the time the mod said the day would end. He had plenty of time to defend himself.I think the day should be over, so I'll throw out a word on extensions and shortenings.^
|
V
(extended the second quote for fittyness)Because by mod-timer, the day has already ended.If you thought Powder should have gotten a fair chance to set up a defense, why did you think the day should have ended there?
Seriously though, Powder should get a fair chance to set up a defense. Someone may want to grill someone else.
Heliman: What do you think of your predecessor's case on Taricus?He didn't have a case, to me, Super was just trying to probe him. Taricus probably smelled funny to him. Unfortunately, Taricus was absent most of D2, once again preventing any case to be formed on himself by not doing fucking anything.
Jim: What value do you put on Powder's suspicion of Super?
I need to study Okami's interactions to see what can be gleaned from them, but here's this first. More will come later.
Taricus, why you gotta avoid us?
Thread locked before I could ask for a Replace though...
President Nickson
Toaster: A few things.I need to study Okami's interactions to see what can be gleaned from them, but here's this first. More will come later.
So, anything come from that? Unfulfilled promises of scumhunting set me on edge.
Can you explain what about Okami No Rei made him ping low on your scumdar (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=84271.msg2283810#msg2283810)? What's more, you never really said anything about him. You only answered questions directed from him to you. Did nothing about him set you off?
I wish Beginner's Mafias didn't have such a high replacement rate, because there's stuff I'd ask anzki4 and Supercharazad if they were still around.
Here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=84271.msg2276403#msg2276403) anzki posts that he has suspicions without saying what they are nor doing anything about them- a weak post overall. Here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=84271.msg2277253#msg2277253) a lot of suspicion is being spread for weak reasons, and again not much is done about them. When he finally votes on it (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=84271.msg2277653#msg2277653), it's for a terrible reason- a broken quote. Really? Shit happens and this is the best vote on it?A horrible reason for voting is more indicative of a newbie than a scum. It's rather common for greenhorn town to have crazy and outlandish theories like that.
So I ask you now, if it's not you, who is scum? Why?Am I the only one that's getting a Red Scare vibe from this? Toaster, is there any reason why you ask questions irrelevant to your case? Because to me, it just looks like you're trying to lock-up his scumhunting.
Not really. Nothing useful, just some WIFOM in guessing his motives.
Can you explain what about Okami No Rei made him ping low on your scumdar (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=84271.msg2283810#msg2283810)? What's more, you never really said anything about him. You only answered questions directed from him to you. Did nothing about him set you off?
I wish Beginner's Mafias didn't have such a high replacement rate, because there's stuff I'd ask anzki4 and Supercharazad if they were still around.
I found him to be aggressive and interested in finding scum. I didn't see any holes in his armor, and I had other targets I was more interested in.
So I ask you now, if it's not you, who is scum? Why?
Also, LNCP: I think Jack A T said he'd replace.
I'll replace in again if LNCP is cool with it....Unless Think does.
So you're not going to address the contradiction I pointed out? Treating the mod timer like it was not a big deal at the time sort of invalidates the defense you made.Here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=84271.msg2276403#msg2276403) anzki posts that he has suspicions without saying what they are nor doing anything about them- a weak post overall. Here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=84271.msg2277253#msg2277253) a lot of suspicion is being spread for weak reasons, and again not much is done about them. When he finally votes on it (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=84271.msg2277653#msg2277653), it's for a terrible reason- a broken quote. Really? Shit happens and this is the best vote on it?A horrible reason for voting is more indicative of a newbie than a scum. It's rather common for greenhorn town to have crazy and outlandish theories like that.So I ask you now, if it's not you, who is scum? Why?Am I the only one that's getting a Red Scare vibe from this? Toaster, is there any reason why you ask questions irrelevant to your case? Because to me, it just looks like you're trying to lock-up his scumhunting.
Not really. Nothing useful, just some WIFOM in guessing his motives.
So why'd you say it?
Why did you forget to mention it later?
Can you explain what about Okami No Rei made him ping low on your scumdar (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=84271.msg2283810#msg2283810)? What's more, you never really said anything about him. You only answered questions directed from him to you. Did nothing about him set you off?
I wish Beginner's Mafias didn't have such a high replacement rate, because there's stuff I'd ask anzki4 and Supercharazad if they were still around.
I found him to be aggressive and interested in finding scum. I didn't see any holes in his armor, and I had other targets I was more interested in.
And nothing about his inconsistent arguments and rapidly changing stories made you the least bit interested in asking him, oh, anything at all?
So I ask you now, if it's not you, who is scum? Why?
Oh, well, when you phrase it like that, how can I do anything but agree?
I do want to hear from breadbocks (who hasn't posted despite being available) but I really don't like the way you're making it seem like he's the only and obvious choice here.
Breadbocks: As a replacee yourself, what do you think having a second replacement will do to the game?Not much. I think we'll need to grill him all the harder to pick apart his mind.
Breadbocks: You, however, I think are scum.Well, this is awkward. You vote me before I even get the chance to answer you question. Should you continue to attack me, let it be known that the reason I didn't answer your last question right away is because I didn't have access to internet.
Here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=84271.msg2276403#msg2276403) anzki posts that he has suspicions without saying what they are nor doing anything about them- a weak post overall. Here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=84271.msg2277253#msg2277253) a lot of suspicion is being spread for weak reasons, and again not much is done about them. When he finally votes on it (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=84271.msg2277653#msg2277653), it's for a terrible reason- a broken quote. Really? Shit happens and this is the best vote on it?
I realize that was your predecessor and you can't directly answer for what he did, but the actions are still there. However, I'm not done.
After you replace, you start D2 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=84271.msg2299252#msg2299252) by voting me for voting Powder, saying I'm looking for an excuse to bandwagon. You seem to completely ignore my D1 case against him. Once I remind you of that case, you vote Powder (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=84271.msg2301976#msg2301976) with what is basically a rehash of old arguments. You don't bring anything else to the table.
So I ask you now, if it's not you, who is scum? Why?
I'm encouraging him to hunt in addition to defending himself. Town or scum, that's a good habit to have.
Breadbocks: As a replacee yourself, what do you think having a second replacement will do to the game?Not much. I think we'll need to grill him all the harder to pick apart his mind.
Toaster:I'm encouraging him to hunt in addition to defending himself. Town or scum, that's a good habit to have.
I don't believe that. Well, I don't believe that was the reason you tacked that on there at the end.
Your case is weak and you know it. Tacking "If not you then who?" adds nothing to the substance of your argument and strengthens it only superficially. It strikes me as scummy that you'd resort to something like that. So why'd you put it there?
As for who I think is scum? I was going to say I'd like to see what Heliman thought about his current position, seeing as how he's been NK'd once, and now he's replaced back in, how he thinks the scum would react, assuming it isn't him. Super crumpled last game when he was Scum, and the matching behavior strikes the wrong string for me.My current position is interesting, but is unfortunately not very open to exploitation. I have a certain tell that in mind that could occur as a result of this, but it would be a primarily subjective argument. Also I have as much of an idea as you all (minus one scum) do in regards to what the scum was thinking when they killed me, so I have even less of an idea of what they are thinking right now. Their thoughts could literally go across the board.
Heliman, I'd like your read on Toaster and breadbocks (and for kicks, myself and Taricus and/or his replacement if he posts in time), as well as a summary of what your thoughts were while going through Day 2.
No special reason for this. I just want a read on you.
I'm encouraging him to hunt in addition to defending himself. Town or scum, that's a good habit to have.Yeah, if you were encouraging him to hunt more you wouldn't be adding pressure with a vote on him, with newer players that can eventually lead to the mafia equivalent of writer's block.
Taricus' replacement, just post something. Anything.
Should you continue to attack me, let it be known that the reason I didn't answer your last question right away is because I didn't have access to internet.Breadbocks:What does this have to do with anything? I can understand defending yourself against attacks that actually were used, but why against one that was not?
Heliman, so of the remaining players of the game, which ones are you most suspicious of and/or most wary of? You've got your eye on breadbocks for some reason. Who else?1. As far as wariness goes, you and toaster. Two ICs alive on D3? Whaaat. Nothing to back it up with of course, but seriously.
Jack A T, what about the reasons Heliman listed don't you like?*"Contradiction": What contradiction?
*Toaster: Don't like how he saw Okami as completely town (if I'm understanding him correctly). His attack against Breadbocks...I agree with Jim and Heliman when it comes to the question. It just feels unnecessary and pointless. Second pick.
Heliman, so of the remaining players of the game, which ones are you most suspicious of and/or most wary of? You've got your eye on breadbocks for some reason. Who else?1. As far as wariness goes, you and toaster. Two ICs alive on D3? Whaaat. Nothing to back it up with of course, but seriously.
2. Everyone.
I said that he "ping[ed] only faintly on my scumdar." (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=84271.msg2283810#msg2283810)Ah. I was thinking of a different post when I was writing that bit about you. Specifically, the one where you said you "didn't see any holes in his armor". Your response indicates that what I said was definitely a bit of a misunderstanding.
Where do you see Breadbocks as defensive? I'd like to see your reasoning a bit more for a D3 vote.He was defending himself against an attack that never had been used (in addition to attacks that had been used), in his main attack post against you. Essentially, in addition to trying to refute your points against him, he started by trying to defend himself from an attack he seemed to think you would inevitably use. That, on its own, brings him up on my list. It feels overly defensive and somewhat panicky. The fact that he continued on in that post to vote for you because you hadn't voted for him immediately doesn't exactly help his case. I'm currently waiting for an answer to a question about the defensiveness. A question at the start of my "my thoughts on everyone" post. That is my main point against him.
Really, now? See this post (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=84271.msg2300801#msg2300801) for reasons that is dumb.
Breadbocks:Makes sense, I suppose. Unvote ToasterBreadbocks: As a replacee yourself, what do you think having a second replacement will do to the game?Not much. I think we'll need to grill him all the harder to pick apart his mind.
Fair enough.
As for the rest of your post, I never said your lack of response was scummy. That wasn't a part of the case. Your reasoning on the D2 vote is valid, but it doesn't make me think you're innocent.
As for your vote, really? I said twice I was going to reread the thread after I made that post. I knew it would be the next morning, so I threw out some questions to get discussion happening (again, like I said.) Did you read that part? It just feels like you're basing your case on something I never said or even implied.
breadbocks, I don't think your case on Toaster is much better. It's essentially an OMGUS. I'm going to need more than an issue of timing to vote for him. What else you got?Jim Honestly? Nothing. I was hoping that my (pretty damn weak) attack on Toaster would have either him, or someone else commenting on it would give a scumtell. Right now I've literally nothing on anybody right now.
I find it better to nip would-be attacks in the bud. Proactivity > Reactivity, no?Should you continue to attack me, let it be known that the reason I didn't answer your last question right away is because I didn't have access to internet.Breadbocks:What does this have to do with anything? I can understand defending yourself against attacks that actually were used, but why against one that was not?
My thoughts on everyone:
*Toaster: Don't like how he saw Okami as completely town (if I'm understanding him correctly). His attack against Breadbocks...I agree with Jim and Heliman when it comes to the question. It just feels unnecessary and pointless. Second pick.
*Heliman: I don't particularly like some of the things he has pointed out as evidence against Toaster (the "contradiction", the congratulation post). Both he and Supercharazad have shown a lack of awareness of the game. Feels like unaware townie.
*Breadbocks: His attack on Toaster is rather weak and OMGUSy. He's also overly defensive, as well, in my eyes. My current top suspect.
*Jim: Feels kind of town to me, but it's a hunch. I'm having problems reading him.
I find it better to nip would-be attacks in the bud. Proactivity > Reactivity, no?
Really, now? See this post (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=84271.msg2300801#msg2300801) for reasons that is dumb.
It bugs me that you're preemptively nipping this line of thought in the bud before anything comes from it, even though Heliman didn't say he actually suspected anybody for it.
Both ICs being alive is incredibly noteworthy, so why don't you want people talking about it?
Jim:Really, now? See this post (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=84271.msg2300801#msg2300801) for reasons that is dumb.
It bugs me that you're preemptively nipping this line of thought in the bud before anything comes from it, even though Heliman didn't say he actually suspected anybody for it.
Both ICs being alive is incredibly noteworthy, so why don't you want people talking about it?
This is WIFOM and you know it. Why do you all of the sudden blow it off when usually you're down people's throats over it? This is unusual for you.
I'm not going after Jack, yet. I want to have a solider case than "he bandwagon'd lynch him" before I go after him. In effect, I've nothing.
As for the response thing, this is directed at everyone, I was considering the possibility of it being used as a weak reason to continue to persecute me, and headed it off.So...why specifically direct it to Toaster, then? Convenience?
I find it better to nip would-be attacks in the bud. Proactivity > Reactivity, no?Nip would-be attacks in the bud: It's the tone that makes it feel defensive. You used a hostile, "Oh, and before you inevitably use this against me" tone. I personally prefer just quickly apologizing for my inability to post (with the BAND TRIP OF DOOM being an exception). Doesn't seem overly defensive, but still deals with attacks like that.
Also, nice Bandwagon you got there. It'd be a shame if you didn't back it up with real meat. sssssSSSSSSS *BOOM*
Heliman and Jack A T, are the two of you just going to sit back while I pick at Toaster all day long? I don't care if there's nothing to go off of, you still need to post something and make yourselves readable.This is a very busy weekend for me (lots of acting-related stuff). I'm going to do what I can, though.
Heliman and Jack A T, are the two of you just going to sit back while I pick at Toaster all day long? I don't care if there's nothing to go off of, you still need to post something and make yourselves readable.*tiredly looks at thread*
As for the response thing, this is directed at everyone, I was considering the possibility of it being used as a weak reason to continue to persecute me, and headed it off.So...why specifically direct it to Toaster, then? Convenience?QuoteExplain why it could possibly be convenient to target Toaster.Toaster just did the same thing, and you said nothing about him doing it. Are you afraid to go after a better player, Jack?I find it better to nip would-be attacks in the bud. Proactivity > Reactivity, no?Nip would-be attacks in the bud: It's the tone that makes it feel defensive. You used a hostile, "Oh, and before you inevitably use this against me" tone. I personally prefer just quickly apologizing for my inability to post (with the BAND TRIP OF DOOM being an exception). Doesn't seem overly defensive, but still deals with attacks like that.
Also, nice Bandwagon you got there. It'd be a shame if you didn't back it up with real meat. sssssSSSSSSS *BOOM*
To summarize: Calmly noting lack of internet access looks fine. Announcing what is essentially "Oh, and before you attack me for this, here's my defense, Toaster!" looks twitchy and overly defensive.
Heliman and Jack A T, are the two of you just going to sit back while I pick at Toaster all day long? I don't care if there's nothing to go off of, you still need to post something and make yourselves readable.*tiredly looks at thread*
...
Oh yeah.Explain why it could possibly be convenient to target Toaster.As for the response thing, this is directed at everyone, I was considering the possibility of it being used as a weak reason to continue to persecute me, and headed it off.So...why specifically direct it to Toaster, then? Convenience?Toaster just did the same thing, and you said nothing about him doing it. Are you afraid to go after a better player, Jack?I find it better to nip would-be attacks in the bud. Proactivity > Reactivity, no?Nip would-be attacks in the bud: It's the tone that makes it feel defensive. You used a hostile, "Oh, and before you inevitably use this against me" tone. I personally prefer just quickly apologizing for my inability to post (with the BAND TRIP OF DOOM being an exception). Doesn't seem overly defensive, but still deals with attacks like that.
Also, nice Bandwagon you got there. It'd be a shame if you didn't back it up with real meat. sssssSSSSSSS *BOOM*
To summarize: Calmly noting lack of internet access looks fine. Announcing what is essentially "Oh, and before you attack me for this, here's my defense, Toaster!" looks twitchy and overly defensive.
"Toaster just did the same thing": Where? Because I don't see anything like that since I came in. Please clarify.Jim was just going after him for it. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=84271.msg2325688#msg2325688)
Watching thread. I'd like to sign up for future rounds if possible.That would be great, but you might not want to post this in games that are in session! If you want, try posting in the Games Threshold Discussion and List (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=45016.0) It's a stupidly specific and ornate sounding thread title, but it's basically where we talk about general things mafia when not in character for the games.
"Toaster just did the same thing": Where? Because I don't see anything like that since I came in. Please clarify.Jim was just going after him for it. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=84271.msg2325688#msg2325688)
For the record, this applies somewhat to Jim as well- he's being very quiet for a D3.
The Tofu Dog has snuck onto the throne.Wha?
Woah, Toaster was a doctor?Whuh?
BAD ADMIN, BAD.
Nope, it said it was going to end today.
Woah, Toaster was a doctor? Guess it goes to show slight scumminess can mean doctor as well as scum. I never posted it, but I would've lynched you if I was alive and breadbocks wasn't scum.
I do!
Who wants their play analyzed and rated?
I should probably also ask for feedback about the beginner tutorial system in general. Do you like it? Is it stressful? Are we nice enough? Does it make you want to stick around and play mafia?I like it, I think it's one of the better ways to do feedback. Then again, I was never really on the target end of some of the harsher advice, so don't ask me. I don't think there's much that would convince me to go away, I'd been lurking for a month or two before I signed up for this game.
Who wants their play analyzed and rated?I do!
Woah woah no need for bad blood, I was only playing ^.^'BAD ADMIN, BAD.Fuck you, I'm not a dog.
Who wants their play analyzed and rated?Awesome, I'd love to have one of those too.
I should probably also ask for feedback about the beginner tutorial system in general. Do you like it? Is it stressful? Are we nice enough? Does it make you want to stick around and play mafia?I like the tutorial system alot! The only thing I think could make it better would be a something like a Scum Nanny, or a non-playing person who gives advice to scum. Otherwise, it holds up great!
Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee I won anyway! Anyway, Tofu Dog, wut?
Who wants their play analyzed and rated?Awesome, I'd love to have one of those too.
Also, how dare you ignore that picture I worked so hard on!
LNCP: Thanks for hosting!
Also, how dare you ignore that picture I worked so hard on!
I didn't ignore it. It was a beautiful picture that I spent ten minutes in gimp to try and give the background transparency to so I could use it as an avatar for the day, but since I don't know jack shit about gimp I just gave up.
Animated gif that scowls for 30 seconds then smiles for one. Trip people out.Also done because I was bored.
Fun fact: The last time Town won a BM game was BM8- in Feb 2010.
Well, now I feel like REALLY bad scum. I know I played badly, but damn. :(
Who wants their play analyzed and rated?Please do.
And also: This is how you scumhunt, bitches. If I were actually in this game and asking questions about scumminess instead of forum-knowledge, I'd be lynching right now on two posts of information. So pay attention.
Also, you should stop pretending that you're not Book, because it's pretty obvious you are, and you got lynched, as scum, on Day 1, in a Beginner's game, so I'd pretty much say that the jig is up.Oh for the love of- Can we stop talking about god damn Book? Look, if it makes you feel any better, I'm Book, I've been posing as the Heliman you know and love this whole time in order to phase myself seamlessly back in should I be banned.
I'm Book.
Heliman can't be Book, I'm Book!
I am Book!
I lol'd for a good 10-15 seconds. :PI'm Book.Heliman can't be Book, I'm Book!I am Book!
Okay.Spoiler (click to show/hide)