Post by: TolyK on June 20, 2011, 06:16:15 am
Welcome to Beginner's Mafia XXIV! Mint City!
Where the events of a counterattack take place.
Where the events of a counterattack take place.
Introduction
It's a pleasant day in the refrigerator of Mint city. The lights were of, the air was cool, and since it's the middle of winter nobody's going to eat you.
Unfortunately, the citizens are thinking otherwise.
See, a few months ago, a pair of radical scoops of mint went over to Vanillatown, trying to kill them all.
They failed, and the surviving pair of scoops of vanilla ice cream swore eternal vengeance against the scoops of mint ice cream.
They moved away from Vanillatown, waiting for the right moment to strike back.
That moment is now.
You have all assembled at mint square, where you find a pair of horribly mutilated corpses lying around.
With their green blood, somebody wrote "You will be next... D&T" next to them.
You stare at each other with horror. The Vanilla Scoops have come to kill you all.
You have to find and eliminate the Vanilla before they eliminate you!
Unfortunately, the citizens are thinking otherwise.
See, a few months ago, a pair of radical scoops of mint went over to Vanillatown, trying to kill them all.
They failed, and the surviving pair of scoops of vanilla ice cream swore eternal vengeance against the scoops of mint ice cream.
They moved away from Vanillatown, waiting for the right moment to strike back.
That moment is now.
You have all assembled at mint square, where you find a pair of horribly mutilated corpses lying around.
With their green blood, somebody wrote "You will be next... D&T" next to them.
You stare at each other with horror. The Vanilla Scoops have come to kill you all.
You have to find and eliminate the Vanilla before they eliminate you!
This version of the game is aimed specifically at players who are new to Mafia, or are still relatively inexperienced. Here, it's more about having fun and learning than anything else, so don't give up hope if you find yourself in a bad position!
This Beginners' Mafia will feature playing ICs. This means that two more experienced people will join in the game to help you guys out and will actually be playing in the game. They can also be scum too, so always stay suspicious! They will not be both scum, however, and there will be one non-playing IC as well.
The ICs will never lie to you about the game mechanics though, and will usually have a special IC voice to use when they want to teach you guys, since their goal will be to get you guys ready for a real Mafia game. Just because they're playing doesn't mean you can't learn!
Don't worry about the flavor for this one, it's just there for fun :P
Darvi and I will be co-modding.
Gameplay and Concept
In Mafia, you are divided into two parts: 7 Town players and 2 Mafia players:
If you are Town, your goal is to lynch the Mafia. You do this by convincing others that one of the group is scum, and getting enough votes on them to lynch them. The Town does not know who else is Town.
If you are Mafia, your goal is to kill off the Town until there is an equal number of them to you by getting them to lynch other Town or by killing them. You are given a kill each Night to kill any player in the game. All the Mafia members know each other, and can communicate privately.
Each Day, everyone votes to lynch a player. Vote for a player by posting their name in red. You may change your vote at any time, remove your vote, or vote for No Lynch. Whoever has the most votes at the end of the day gets lynched, even if there is no majority. (Example: Nobody votes except for one guy, who votes Generic_Steve. Generic_Steve would get lynched). If you have a great deal of suspicion for someone, but don't want to vote for them just yet, point their name out in blue.
The Day will not end prematurely unless people vote to shorten the day. That is, there is no "hammer" in Beginner's Mafia, where X amount of votes (more than 50%) on a single person immediately ends the day with a lynch on that person. Some games do that, but not this one, and you would be explicitly informed in the rules if the hammer is active.
If there are tied votes for who gets lynched at the end of the day, the day ends in a no-lynch. (Two people vote for Generic_Steve, two people vote for Unassuming_Mary. Nobody gets lynched.)
Each Night, you send in your actions. The cycle continues until one side wins. Days are (at least) 72 hours and nights are (at least) 24 hours. Weekends count for zero hours.
Rules and Guidelines
- You may not PM other players other than the mod. The mafia will have a place to talk to themselves.
- Never edit your posts, even to fix typos! If you make a mistake, just double post- it's permitted here. Violation of this rule can lead to deadly repercussions. I recommend using the preview button every time you post.
- Never quote your role PM or any other PM sent to you by the mod.
- If you need more time to discuss, you may ask for an extension. If more players ask for one than those who decline one, the day will be extended by 48 hours.
- There are no limit to the number of extensions allowed per day.
- Please don't forget about this game if you sign up! If you cannot continue playing, please ask for a replacement! I will prod you via PM if you do not post in 48 hours to remind you that this game exists!
- Note that a Mafia game usually takes a long time to finish: two weeks at least, and sometimes even longer than a month. Be ready for this.
- Upon receiving your second prod, you are forcibly replaced (Another player takes your place) or modkilled (removed from the game) for inactivity. Beware.
- Upon being killed, you are entitled to one "Bah!" post, but you are not allowed to post any game-related content. After your Bah post, you MUST NOT POST AGAIN unless you somehow come back to life (impossible in this setup) or replace back in (you must have been town to do this). Failure to comply with this rule can lead to a bad reputation amongst mods, and difficulty in joining other games.
- Never underestimate your importance, and always play to win!
- A Cop inspects any player at Night. They are told that player's alignment, but not their role.
- A Doctor may protect any player at Night. This stops that player from being killed.
- A Roleblocker stops an extra role from using an action. This stops Doctors and Cops but does nothing for Townies.
- Roleblockers do not actually discover if their attempts were successful or not; that would be too powerful because the roleblocker would know they found a town power role. It isn't an investigative role (the same goes for the Doctor)! The Mafia needs to find the town power roles the old-fashioned way: analyzing behavior and voting patterns.
- Townies do not receive a message if they were blocked by a Mafia Roleblocker. Only a Cop or a Doctor will receive a message.
- A Godfather, if investigated by a Cop, looks just like a normal Townie.
Extensions require support from at least one of the players. You may oppose extensions as well, which cancels out an extension request. For example, if there were five players, with two requesting and two opposing, there would be no extension. (2-2 = 0 of 5)
Along with opposing extensions, there is also the option to Shorten/End the Day. They work differently from extensions, 33% required to pass with no objections. Shortening the Day ends the Day makes the day end as quickly as I can process it. Due to the nature of these requests, they also act just like Counter-Extensions.
Please bold requests/opposition to extensions, and Mod/my name if you want to ask me a question in-thread. (IE: Mod: I have a question!)
Frequently Asked Questions
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Resources
Our own Bay12 Mafia tutorial (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=39338.0)
The Notable Games archive. Read a famous game from start to finish! Learn some Mafia history. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=64229.0)
The Mafiascum wiki. Lots of theory, terminology, and game analysis. (http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page)
An Interactive Flash tutorial by one of the Mafiascum.net people. Helpful visualization! (http://cataldo.freeshell.org/mafia/mafiascum04.swf)
Spoiler: Dakarian's Scumhunting Bible, reposted here for your convenience (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: A List of Common Scumtells (click to show/hide)
If you're still confused, join anyhow and we'll teach you!
And if you have any other questions, just ask!
P.S. Sorry for taking so long :D
Post by: TolyK on June 20, 2011, 06:17:32 am
Players:
- Max White
- Powder Miner
- Think0028
- Kilakan
- breadbocks
- bdthemag
-
Playing IC's:
-
- Vector
SIC:
- IronyOwl
Notes:
PM me or Darvi to ask questions/etc.
Max White and Jim reserved ;)
The role names are flavor'd as well.
Post by: Jim Groovester on June 20, 2011, 06:31:30 am
Post by: TolyK on June 20, 2011, 06:32:13 am
Post by: Jim Groovester on June 20, 2011, 06:34:26 am
I'm not really sure a neutral IC is necessary to begin with, but I guess we'll see how it goes.
Post by: TolyK on June 20, 2011, 06:44:31 am
Post by: TolyK on June 20, 2011, 10:24:28 am
Post by: Heliman on June 20, 2011, 01:38:33 pm
Post by: TolyK on June 20, 2011, 01:44:20 pm
???
Post by: Think0028 on June 20, 2011, 01:45:19 pm
Post by: TolyK on June 20, 2011, 01:53:03 pm
possibly, if they roll that way. that's a detail I have to go over with Darvi. ;)
Post by: Think0028 on June 20, 2011, 01:57:28 pm
Post by: TolyK on June 20, 2011, 02:04:51 pm
It'd help if the Neutral non-playing IC stopped in the Mafia thread to provide support, in case they don't get an IC. I'd in, but I'm probably at my limit with King, Paranormal, and Third Party. Once the inevitable happens and I die in one of Paranormal and Third Party, I'll join.oookaydokay.
now we need players :P
Post by: Powder Miner on June 20, 2011, 06:13:49 pm
Post by: webadict on June 20, 2011, 06:34:58 pm
Post by: lordnincompoop on June 20, 2011, 07:43:15 pm
I'd Neutral if I weren't being the tofu of mafia (Get it? Because I'm a substitute?) But, my suggestion is that the Neutral help out the Mafia and the Town.
Tofu isn't just a substitute thingus, yanno. :V
Yeah, I agree on the dual-factions point here. I think the mafia suffered a bit in previous games from not having a dedicated Scum IC, and though this isn't quite there, it's a step on the way.
Post by: Max White on June 20, 2011, 09:42:53 pm
Post by: webadict on June 20, 2011, 09:59:10 pm
For some reason, the expert players seem to take more interest in these than the newbies...You must understand the culture of the Mafia subforum. We here are interested in "propects." We have our own... families, let's say, and we're all looking at how the newbies play and then we fight over the pickings, starting minor feuds and occasionally killing everyone. Then, we indite our choices into our families.
We classify our players like that. I think if we decided to typify players, there would be different ways:
There's the Org way of playing, which is to say you basically say things that are put directly through Babelfish several times and then vote whoever makes the least amount of sense to vote. Basically, you use the power of illogic to win games, and it, illogically, works.
There's the Toaster way of playing, which is the normal ask lots of questions style of play. These players look for things that are "wrong" with an answer to find scum, and it has mixed results. It definitely is the most recommended way to play, as you don't act like a complete moron, but you also don't take a lot of risks, which isn't a bad thing.
There's the Vector way of playing, where you use aggressive action to find scum. It involves a lot more risks and tends to have a lot more follies, but if used correctly, destroys a lot of other ways of playing.
There's the newbie way of playing, where you play super defensively. It has a lot of follies, in that you worry too much about how you play yourself that you pay no attention to how anyone else plays.
There's the dakarian way of playing, where you post ridiculously long Walls of Texts that hardly anyone reads. It tends to be very analytical, but while it tends to be more right, it has less ability to convince others.
There is no webadict manner of playing, since I basically do whatever I feel like. Whenever I feel like. Because I'm webadict! And this method fails for anyone else that tries to use it.
Post by: Toaster on June 20, 2011, 10:18:06 pm
For some reason, the expert players seem to take more interest in these than the newbies...
Plus, we're losing players and we hate it. We want fresh blood!
(Complimented that I'm now archetypal. Too bad I'm actually bad at my own type! [Don't tell anyone, but I'm not great at finding scum.])
Post by: Max White on June 20, 2011, 10:24:21 pm
~SnipWell, I guess I'm going to get conscripted into the Org family, for my total lack of coherent reasoning?
Post by: Jim Groovester on June 20, 2011, 10:30:21 pm
(You should join this game. I think you could stand to benefit from some nannying from the experienced players on the board.)
Post by: Max White on June 20, 2011, 10:34:06 pm
Anyway, I joined this game before this game was even posted.
Post by: Jim Groovester on June 20, 2011, 10:37:47 pm
That was a stupid mistake to make.
Post by: Think0028 on June 20, 2011, 11:15:20 pm
Post by: Max White on June 20, 2011, 11:28:29 pm
Post by: Vector on June 20, 2011, 11:38:03 pm
There's the Vector way of playing, where you use aggressive action to find scum. It involves a lot more risks and tends to have a lot more follies, but if used correctly, destroys a lot of other ways of playing.
... <3
Posting to watch, and potentially to IC. I have to get caught up in Paranormal first, which means getting caught up in some other stuff first, like tonight's housing search. But, ah, we'll see.
Post by: IronyOwl on June 21, 2011, 01:00:34 am
There's the Org way of playing, which is to say you basically say things that are put directly through Babelfish several times and then vote whoever makes the least amount of sense to vote. Basically, you use the power of illogic to win games, and it, illogically, works.So we've got House Derp, House Playing Mafia, House Rage, House Noobscum, House Textwall, and The Prince of Assholes.
There's the Toaster way of playing, which is the normal ask lots of questions style of play. These players look for things that are "wrong" with an answer to find scum, and it has mixed results. It definitely is the most recommended way to play, as you don't act like a complete moron, but you also don't take a lot of risks, which isn't a bad thing.
There's the Vector way of playing, where you use aggressive action to find scum. It involves a lot more risks and tends to have a lot more follies, but if used correctly, destroys a lot of other ways of playing.
There's the newbie way of playing, where you play super defensively. It has a lot of follies, in that you worry too much about how you play yourself that you pay no attention to how anyone else plays.
There's the dakarian way of playing, where you post ridiculously long Walls of Texts that hardly anyone reads. It tends to be very analytical, but while it tends to be more right, it has less ability to convince others.
There is no webadict manner of playing, since I basically do whatever I feel like. Whenever I feel like. Because I'm webadict! And this method fails for anyone else that tries to use it.
I think we need more playing styles. :-\
Also, in as an IC. Preferably playing, but I'll fill anything we need.
Post by: Toaster on June 21, 2011, 08:11:55 am
Alternatively, have a volunteer scum IC, who goes and scum ICs if neither of the playing ICs are scum. Said person would obviously have to keep his/her mouth shut in the thread.
Post by: TolyK on June 21, 2011, 09:13:35 am
So we've got House Derp, House Playing Mafia, House Rage, House Noobscum, House Textwall, and The Prince of Assholes.There's also my style, where I just try to shake things up. :P
I think we need more playing styles. :-\
Quote
Also, in as an IC. Preferably playing, but I'll fill anything we need.OK.
The issue with a single neutral IC is that it's hard to be a good impartial town IC if you know who the scum are. I'd suggest either making said person a scum IC or making a nonplaying IC for both sides... but then you have four ICs and that's just way too many.Yeah.... dunno.
Quote
Alternatively, have a volunteer scum IC, who goes and scum ICs if neither of the playing ICs are scum. Said person would obviously have to keep his/her mouth shut in the thread.But that would obviously mean that one of the other IC's were scum if they didn't join, or that the other IC's weren't scum. Er... I'll just make one Town and one Scum IC I guess... i dunno...
Post by: Toaster on June 21, 2011, 09:51:13 am
QuoteAlternatively, have a volunteer scum IC, who goes and scum ICs if neither of the playing ICs are scum. Said person would obviously have to keep his/her mouth shut in the thread.But that would obviously mean that one of the other IC's were scum if they didn't join, or that the other IC's weren't scum. Er... I'll just make one Town and one Scum IC I guess... i dunno...
That's why they say nothing in main thread and aren't listed as having joined.
Also, you can't do that. Then you just lynch an IC D1. If he's town, lynch the other. If scum, other is confirmed townie.
Post by: Think0028 on June 21, 2011, 05:45:44 pm
Post by: TolyK on June 21, 2011, 11:39:57 pm
Welp, that was anticlimatic. In.Just as planned. >:D
Also, ironic (*looks at co-mod*)
Post by: Max White on June 21, 2011, 11:41:11 pm
*Checks*
Aww shit...
Post by: Heliman on June 22, 2011, 04:05:30 am
...
...
Ok now I'm getting the sneaking suspicion that there is no house style and everyone thinks that they are their own unique player and also 4 players have a constant style going. >_>
I suppose I'm a pretty aggressive player, so I guess I'm house vector then.
BTW I'd like to in but I want more new people to come instead.
Post by: Darvi on June 22, 2011, 04:10:15 am
I don't follow your logic. Whether there's a scum IC or not doesn't change anything about the other IC's, so I don't get why anybody would lynch an IC on day 1 except for the stupid "one IC has to be scum"-newbie reasoning.QuoteAlternatively, have a volunteer scum IC, who goes and scum ICs if neither of the playing ICs are scum. Said person would obviously have to keep his/her mouth shut in the thread.But that would obviously mean that one of the other IC's were scum if they didn't join, or that the other IC's weren't scum. Er... I'll just make one Town and one Scum IC I guess... i dunno...
That's why they say nothing in main thread and aren't listed as having joined.
Also, you can't do that. Then you just lynch an IC D1. If he's town, lynch the other. If scum, other is confirmed townie.
Post by: Heliman on June 22, 2011, 04:26:59 am
Post by: Darvi on June 22, 2011, 04:27:43 am
Post by: Heliman on June 22, 2011, 04:42:41 am
Post by: Jim Groovester on June 22, 2011, 04:44:31 am
Also, let's get more new people in here instead of more repeats (unless they could use the help).
Post by: TolyK on June 22, 2011, 08:33:56 am
Post by: Think0028 on June 22, 2011, 10:45:21 am
Post by: kilakan on June 22, 2011, 12:38:08 pm
Post by: TolyK on June 22, 2011, 12:42:23 pm
3 more, hopefully 1 more IC.
Lookin' good!
Post by: Vector on June 22, 2011, 03:02:03 pm
I suppose I'm a pretty aggressive player, so I guess I'm house vector then.
Weasel words, asshole?
(Kidding, kidding. Good to have you for my house =)
Eh... I sort of want to IC, but I'm not too sure about my ability to do a good job of it. Also, my style has become less straightforward over the past few months.
Judgment call should be on someone else.
Post by: Darvi on June 22, 2011, 03:15:01 pm
Post by: Vector on June 22, 2011, 03:39:28 pm
Post by: UltraValican on June 22, 2011, 06:59:20 pm
Post by: IronyOwl on June 22, 2011, 09:51:07 pm
Post by: Heliman on June 23, 2011, 12:59:01 am
Only to bitches, Whore bat ;-)I suppose I'm a pretty aggressive player, so I guess I'm house vector then.
Weasel words, asshole?
Post by: breadbocks on June 23, 2011, 01:17:15 am
Post by: Bdthemag on June 23, 2011, 01:20:05 am
Post by: TolyK on June 23, 2011, 10:30:04 am
Post by: Darvi on June 23, 2011, 01:46:17 pm
Now, do either Jim or Irony mind being the Scum IC?
Post by: TolyK on June 23, 2011, 01:50:02 pm
Post by: webadict on June 23, 2011, 02:23:22 pm
Post by: TolyK on June 23, 2011, 02:24:27 pm
Could work. Vector - PM sent.
Post by: Darvi on June 23, 2011, 02:34:29 pm
Err, that's not how it goes! Give someone else the scum IC position. Someone not playing!Yeah, but Vector asked to be a playing IC, so I was asking if anybody would want to give her that spot.
Post by: Jim Groovester on June 23, 2011, 02:39:35 pm
Post by: TolyK on June 23, 2011, 02:41:01 pm
Post by: IronyOwl on June 23, 2011, 03:05:36 pm
Post by: TolyK on June 23, 2011, 03:08:51 pm
I'll start this tomorrow (morning), Darvi please get everything set.
Post by: Darvi on June 24, 2011, 06:49:14 am
Determing roles and alignments now, sending them to Tolyk.
Post by: Max White on June 24, 2011, 06:51:49 am
*Salutes*
Post by: Darvi on June 24, 2011, 07:48:19 am
Once Tolyk is back this can officially start.
Post by: TolyK on June 24, 2011, 12:14:37 pm
The thought of being killed caused a commotion among the mint citizens. You don't want to diiiieeeeee!!!
Eventually, the one known as Jim steps out. Alright erveryone, calm down!
He has an idea.
The vanilla town managed to survive by playing a sort of game.
A game of psychology, deception, and mercyless murder.
Eventually they managed to find out who was the one who kept killing their friends and killed him in turn.
So he suggests that mint city does the same.
Not a bad idea, the one known as Vector replies.
The two of them have quite some experience in that game, so the rest of the town should better listen to their advice.
As everyone calms down, the citizen known as Max fetches a Whiteboard and a marker.
So basically we diplomatically decide who to kill? Kilikan asks.
Basically yes, Vector replies.
Now get started.
***********Eventually, the one known as Jim steps out. Alright erveryone, calm down!
He has an idea.
The vanilla town managed to survive by playing a sort of game.
A game of psychology, deception, and mercyless murder.
Eventually they managed to find out who was the one who kept killing their friends and killed him in turn.
So he suggests that mint city does the same.
Not a bad idea, the one known as Vector replies.
The two of them have quite some experience in that game, so the rest of the town should better listen to their advice.
As everyone calms down, the citizen known as Max fetches a Whiteboard and a marker.
So basically we diplomatically decide who to kill? Kilikan asks.
Basically yes, Vector replies.
Now get started.
Day 1
Max White - 0 :
Powder Miner - 0 :
Think0028 - 0 :
Kilakan - 0 :
breadbocks - 0 :
bdthemag - 0 :
UltraValican - 0 :
Jim Groovester - 0 :
Vector - 0 :
Not Voting: Max White, Powder MIner, Think0028, Kilakan, breadbocks, bdthemag, UltraValican, Jim Groovester, Vector
Voting ends June 29 at ~12:00 PM Central
Post by: breadbocks on June 24, 2011, 02:00:28 pm
Post by: UltraValican on June 24, 2011, 02:04:40 pm
Post by: lordnincompoop on June 24, 2011, 02:21:39 pm
Post by: Darvi on June 24, 2011, 02:30:46 pm
Post by: kilakan on June 24, 2011, 03:10:21 pm
Post by: TolyK on June 24, 2011, 03:10:52 pm
my internet connection just revived, I'm being an Insomniac.
hold on while I send PMs.
@ninja: lol
Post by: Jim Groovester on June 24, 2011, 03:20:58 pm
You need that too.
Post by: TolyK on June 24, 2011, 03:23:50 pm
Deadline is also in progress, converting timezone stuff :P
Post by: Jim Groovester on June 24, 2011, 03:25:26 pm
I will be a completely impartial source of advice that I will freely give at every opportunity, whether I am asked for it or I decide to give it on my own. You can trust that everything I have to say will be given in good faith, even if it comes at a personal cost to me in this game. If you do not listen to what I have to say, for any reason, you will severely hamper your ability to learn how to play the game. So, to reiterate,
Listen to what I tell you.
If you don't, then what's the point of me being here?
For those of you who don't know what to do, games usually start with the Random Vote Stage. You should pick a target randomly, vote them, and ask them a question. The sole purpose of this is to get conversation going when there would otherwise be no reason to do that. I'll start.
UltraValican, I've never seen you around here before, so answer me a question. As a cop, how would you determine who to inspect at night?
Ideally you should ask game related questions in the RVS. Asking what kind of flavor of ice cream is a player's favorite does absolutely nothing to help you find scum, which is your primary goal.
And because it bears repeating: Your primary goal is to find scum. Everything you do should help you towards that goal. And I do mean everything.
If you're scum, you will obviously have a different goal: Avoid detection until the end of the game. The best way to do this is to look like you are trying to find scum.
Since many of you are going to have no idea what to do and will mangle scumhunting in just about every possible way, it does you no good to hold back. So be bold, and just do the best you can. Ask lots of questions, try to get a good feel for how the game is played. I'll be there to help you when you go wrong.
If you played a Beginner's Game before you probably recognize this spiel, but it's good all the same.
Post by: kilakan on June 24, 2011, 03:32:25 pm
-If you were a doctor, how would you go about determining the most likely person to be targeted by the scum at night, so you might best protect them?
Post by: UltraValican on June 24, 2011, 03:33:09 pm
If I was a cop I would investigate down the list of players, unless of course someone do/say something scummy, then they get highest priority provided they arn;t already going to get lynched
Max White If you were scum how would you determine who to kill?
Post by: kilakan on June 24, 2011, 03:38:23 pm
@ JimUltraValican-Why would you not reciprocate an answer to Jim? not only would it not hurt you at all, but it is a suspicious thing to do attempting to not get tied into an answer/question circle with someone and instead bounce a question onto the next person.
If I was a cop I would investigate down the list of players, unless of course someone do/say something scummy, then they get highest priority provided they arn;t already going to get lynched
Max White If you were scum how would you determine who to kill?
Post by: UltraValican on June 24, 2011, 03:49:44 pm
The reason I didn't recipricate a question back to Jim was simply because I hadn't thought to but since you put it that way....
@ JimWho are you most suspicious of at the moment
@ kilakanWhy do you care if I asked jim a question or not.
Post by: Max White on June 24, 2011, 04:04:15 pm
Max White If you were scum how would you determine who to kill?Inactive players would be my target of choice. They are less of a force on the game, so cause smaller waves if they are killed.
Vector: How are you feeling about the game? Think you stand a good chance to win?
Kilakan: So, Mafia IC's seems sort of scary, right? Will you be taking the IC's on their word?
Post by: Jim Groovester on June 24, 2011, 04:15:02 pm
@ JimUltraValican-Why would you not reciprocate an answer to Jim? not only would it not hurt you at all, but it is a suspicious thing to do attempting to not get tied into an answer/question circle with someone and instead bounce a question onto the next person.
If I was a cop I would investigate down the list of players, unless of course someone do/say something scummy, then they get highest priority provided they arn;t already going to get lynched
Max White If you were scum how would you determine who to kill?
Not really. What he did was fine.
@ JimWho are you most suspicious of at the moment
The game just started. I am suspicious of no one at all.
Unvote. Bdthemag, I noticed in other games you have a habit of not playing at all. Is that going to happen here?
Post by: kilakan on June 24, 2011, 04:16:25 pm
from kilikan UltraValican-Why would you not reciprocate an answer to Jim? not only would it not hurt you at all, but it is a suspicious thing to do attempting to not get tied into an answer/question circle with someone and instead bounce a question onto the next person.I care because it was a suspicious act, and as such it is something I noticed, and since I noticed I brought it into light, you were avoiding having more questions asked of you, and having to give more answers.
The reason I didn't recipricate a question back to Jim was simply because I hadn't thought to but since you put it that way....
@ JimWho are you most suspicious of at the moment
@ kilakanWhy do you care if I asked jim a question or not.
UltraValican-Why would you assume Jim would have suspicions already? so far he has posts from two other people, though your reluctance to think of a better question, and do the minimal scum-hunting to just keep suspicion off of you I am finding pretty scummy. I have a FoS on you.
I think that the idea of a mafia IC is a bit unsettling, and as such I shall be taking both with a grain of salt, but the IC who offers the least advice would likely be my target for a potential Mafia IC.Max White If you were scum how would you determine who to kill?Inactive players would be my target of choice. They are less of a force on the game, so cause smaller waves if they are killed.
Vector: How are you feeling about the game? Think you stand a good chance to win?
Kilakan: So, Mafia IC's seems sort of scary, right? Will you be taking the IC's on their word?
MaxWhite-How would you avoid detection as a Scum, if you plan on taking out the lurkers at night?
pre-post edit*Blargh ninjas, gonna post this anyways.
Post by: Max White on June 24, 2011, 04:20:39 pm
MaxWhite-How would you avoid detection as a Scum, if you plan on taking out the lurkers at night?Have an axe to grind. Try to get a reason to begrudge a player, then focus everything you have at them, even if nobody else is going to vote them. That way you have a reason to not vote for anybody else, including your mafia friends.
Also, I'm not one of the IC's, if your looking for tips on how to not be lynched the first day, your scumchat will provide you more useful information than I can.
Also, again...
Kilakan: So, Mafia IC's seems sort of scary, right? Will you be taking the IC's on their word?
Post by: UltraValican on June 24, 2011, 04:25:55 pm
on that not
@ Kilikan, if you were scum who would you kill, or if you feel you don't have any incentive to kill yet, how would you go about killing
Post by: Think0028 on June 24, 2011, 04:36:35 pm
Post by: Max White on June 24, 2011, 04:38:41 pm
Post by: Bdthemag on June 24, 2011, 04:44:03 pm
Post by: Think0028 on June 24, 2011, 04:44:36 pm
Think: Do you approve of a lynch on day one, even if we are not fully sure of Mafia status, just some what sure?
Yes. Not lynching on Day 1 just gives scum a free kill, and means that if we have 2 mislynches, the Mafia win.
Post by: kilakan on June 24, 2011, 04:52:33 pm
already answered the question, I just should of made it clearer.Kilakan: So, Mafia IC's seems sort of scary, right? Will you be taking the IC's on their word?I think that the idea of a mafia IC is a bit unsettling, and as such I shall be taking both with a grain of salt, but the IC who offers the least advice would likely be my target for a potential Mafia IC.
@ Kilikan you were the one asking/pressuring me to ask me a question (or at least thats how I interperted the move ::) the game just startedand not many players have posted yet so I don't have much to work with but if you feel like im trying to dodge questions that's simply not the case, feel free to ask me anythingI was pressuring you, and I will continue to pressure you, just because it's the first day and there's not many posts is not any reason to be slack, the more you know about a person the more likely it is that town can get the correct lynches.
on that not
@ Kilikan, if you were scum who would you kill, or if you feel you don't have any incentive to kill yet, how would you go about killing
With the town and mafia IC's and since we know who the IC's are, if I was mafia, I would know who the Mafia IC is and as such I would know who the townie IC is, and while it may sound like a good idea to take out the Town IC since they are the most experienced player, I would avoid that initially, instead I would kill the person who proves to, while not be exactly the best player, is probably the second best and is the person asking the best questions, just not getting anyone to listen yet. I would leave the better few, just to leave in the possible suspition that they could be Mafia, and if they lynch a townie, then it's all likily the town will lynch them next, so if you leave the betters, they will take out themselves. You would also not want to take out the worse, since they are possible fall-back people that you could draw false suspicion onto. anyways that's my cyclical thought on killing as scum.
UltraVatican-Would you think it could be a good idea to lynch an IC, since it's 50% likely we could get the scum IC?
Think-But if lynching on day 1 gives a mislynch that would just make the mafia win faster, so:What happens if you are not sure of anything at the end of the first day, how would you go about picking who to random-lynch?Think: Do you approve of a lynch on day one, even if we are not fully sure of Mafia status, just some what sure?
Yes. Not lynching on Day 1 just gives scum a free kill, and means that if we have 2 mislynches, the Mafia win.
Post by: Darvi on June 24, 2011, 04:55:17 pm
Post by: kilakan on June 24, 2011, 04:57:13 pm
Hint: The scum IC is not playing. The IC's who are playing have a 2/9th chance of being scum, like any other person.Thank you for clairfying that, I thought I had read that one would be scum.... though your way makes more sense.
Post by: Max White on June 24, 2011, 04:57:23 pm
Kilakan: So, Mafia IC's seems sort of scary, right? Will you be taking the IC's on their word?I think that the idea of a mafia IC is a bit unsettling, and as such I shall be taking both with a grain of salt, but the IC who offers the least advice would likely be my target for a potential Mafia IC.
You should remember that these are seasoned professionals in a beginners game, I don't think they care that much about winning, but would rather get us all up to scratch to help enrich the game across the forum. I plan on taking their advice to heart.
Hint: The scum IC is not playing. The IC's who are playing have a 2/9th chance of being scum, like any other person.Ah, good to know!
Post by: Jim Groovester on June 24, 2011, 05:28:01 pm
Jim Groovester I plan on playing more now that I atleat have a basic understanding of the strategies to play, before i'd just get nervous and stop playing all together.
Words are nice, but I really want to see actions instead.
So when are you going to start taking actions?
Post by: breadbocks on June 24, 2011, 05:39:59 pm
breadbocks: You were in the last beginner game I played, and I've seen you play others, how do you consider yourself a beginner still, and what do you believe you need improvement at that would constitute you still being in a Beginner game?I am entirely bad at Mafia, with no natural talent, which means I have to spend that much more time learning. If you paid attention to the games I was in, you'd see how abominable my play was. I need to work on learning how to scumhunt in a way that makes the effort I'm putting into it visible to others.
-If you were a doctor, how would you go about determining the most likely person to be targeted by the scum at night, so you might best protect them?
Were I the doctor, in this particular style, I'd pick one of the ICs, since ICs are almost always targeted first by scum, an d in this particular lineup, at this point in time, I'd pick Vector, since I know the way she scumhunts would be a lot more effective at catching beginner scum than Jim's.
Vote Jim, who, of the nonICs would you be most worried about being scum, and why?
Post by: Bdthemag on June 24, 2011, 05:41:27 pm
Post by: Think0028 on June 24, 2011, 05:45:45 pm
Think-But if lynching on day 1 gives a mislynch that would just make the mafia win faster, so:What happens if you are not sure of anything at the end of the first day, how would you go about picking who to random-lynch?
1) It doesn't make the mafia win faster, actually: if you work it out, you'll find the only difference between lynching day 1 and not lynching is that there's 1 more person at every stage, and the game ends at the exact same time as it would otherwise.
2) That's what extensions are for. If I really don't know what's going on, I'd vote to extend the day and keep talking.
Post by: Max White on June 24, 2011, 05:47:53 pm
Jim: Do you think random voting time has any advantage over just random question time?
Post by: Jim Groovester on June 24, 2011, 06:00:23 pm
Vote Jim, who, of the nonICs would you be most worried about being scum, and why?
Think0028, because he's the best of the bunch (I have no idea why he joined up for this game). If anyone can play a decent scum game it's going to be him.
However, players who self destruct easily under pressure are also worrisome, because it's not clear if they're town or scum from the reaction. Players like Powder Miner, at the very least. If there's anybody else, I haven't seen them do it yet.
It's a tricky dance, judging whether a new player is being new or being new scum.
Hey look, Jim is on.
Jim: Do you think random voting time has any advantage over just random question time?
Yes. A vote always carries weight, even if it ultimately leads to nothing. It gets speedier answers to questions than without it.
Post by: UltraValican on June 24, 2011, 06:13:32 pm
@ kikilan, if which one of the ic's are you most worried about being scum (if your worried at all)
@ Max White besides the fact that the ICS are here to help us better are mafia game, why are you taking such interest in finding out how much stock people take in their words
Post by: Max White on June 24, 2011, 06:18:06 pm
@ Max White besides the fact that the ICS are here to help us better are mafia game, why are you taking such interest in finding out how much stock people take in their words
A player who can afford to ignore IC's here, might have a scumchat to get advice from. Somebody acting out of line with what the IC's are saying, but still doing well, could be getting advice from a scum IC.
Although that was an assumption based on when I was under the impression there was at least one scum IC, and Darvi came to clear that up.
Post by: Bdthemag on June 24, 2011, 06:24:15 pm
Post by: Jim Groovester on June 24, 2011, 07:00:19 pm
@ Max White besides the fact that the ICS are here to help us better are mafia game, why are you taking such interest in finding out how much stock people take in their words
A player who can afford to ignore IC's here, might have a scumchat to get advice from. Somebody acting out of line with what the IC's are saying, but still doing well, could be getting advice from a scum IC.
Although that was an assumption based on when I was under the impression there was at least one scum IC, and Darvi came to clear that up.
There is no player who can afford to ignore the ICs.
Jim Groovester how do you imagine the game is going to play out compared to the last few Begginer games you IC'ed in?
They're all pretty identical, at least in terms of how I see it.
Plenty of opportunity to teach people. The only difference is in how much teaching is needed or not.
Town won the last BM. That was different from usual, I guess.
Post by: Vector on June 24, 2011, 08:52:16 pm
I prefer to teach by example. Therefore, I am going to provide you a tutorial in how to create a case on someone. If you have any questions, then feel free to toss them about. I'm better at answering questions after they're asked than I am at anticipating them preemptively.
On the other hand, I like answering questions. So you got lucky.
This is the first time I've acted as a playing IC, though, so please bear with me as I get around to things like "learning to put things in my IC voice rather than my game-playing voice." Shouldn't take more than an RL day, though, so bother me if I screw up any longer than that.
UltraValican, I've never seen you around here before, so answer me a question. As a cop, how would you determine who to inspect at night?
-If you were a doctor, how would you go about determining the most likely person to be targeted by the scum at night, so you might best protect them?
Notice patterns in people copying/mirroring others. This is a subtle form of buddying I call "emotional alignment." In case you're wondering about this, I read in a book that autistic kids don't realize that they should copy their friends' opinions in order to get along with them. Identify themselves as the same team, as it were. So: buddying.
UltraValican-Why would you not reciprocate an answer to Jim? not only would it not hurt you at all, but it is a suspicious thing to do attempting to not get tied into an answer/question circle with someone and instead bounce a question onto the next person.
Notice people trying to start a fight and declare suspicion for non-suspicious things. This is also called town direction, usually performed with a dish of sidelining.
In this instance, perceive attempts to create a situation in which OMGUS-wars are occurring.
The game just started. I am suspicious of no one at all.
I care because it was a suspicious act, and as such it is something I noticed, and since I noticed I brought it into light, you were avoiding having more questions asked of you, and having to give more answers.
UltraValican-Why would you assume Jim would have suspicions already? so far he has posts from two other people, though your reluctance to think of a better question, and do the minimal scum-hunting to just keep suspicion off of you I am finding pretty scummy. I have a FoS on you.
. . . Righto.
Examine reasoning. "Your behavior was suspicious because it was suspicious. You did not ask questions of your questioner because you wanted to avoid being questioned." Mark that down in the "bullshit" column, under the other entries.
Note (casually) the lack of vote on the theoretically scummy target.
Perceive increase in run-on sentences, often a sign of anxiety.
Note painting of a poor question and noobish scum-hunting behavior (despite ignoring the hunt of others) "reluctance," rather than "inability" or "failure." The language is loaded.
I think that the idea of a mafia IC is a bit unsettling, and as such I shall be taking both with a grain of salt, but the IC who offers the least advice would likely be my target for a potential Mafia IC.
Again: undermining the biggest town asset and pitting the ICs against each other.
MaxWhite-How would you avoid detection as a Scum, if you plan on taking out the lurkers at night?
For someone who is ragging on someone else for asking bad questions, he asks some pretty terrible questions.
Also seems to have a weird thing for talking to Max White, without showing any interest in the answers.
I was pressuring you, and I will continue to pressure you, just because it's the first day and there's not many posts is not any reason to be slack, the more you know about a person the more likely it is that town can get the correct lynches.
With the town and mafia IC's and since we know who the IC's are, if I was mafia, I would know who the Mafia IC is and as such I would know who the townie IC is, and while it may sound like a good idea to take out the Town IC since they are the most experienced player, I would avoid that initially, instead I would kill the person who proves to, while not be exactly the best player, is probably the second best and is the person asking the best questions, just not getting anyone to listen yet. I would leave the better few, just to leave in the possible suspition that they could be Mafia, and if they lynch a townie, then it's all likily the town will lynch them next, so if you leave the betters, they will take out themselves. You would also not want to take out the worse, since they are possible fall-back people that you could draw false suspicion onto. anyways that's my cyclical thought on killing as scum.
UltraVatican-Would you think it could be a good idea to lynch an IC, since it's 50% likely we could get the scum IC?
Holy mother of Batman, that's a lot of run-on sentences.
Also, the usual issue with folks nudging other folks to consider lynching them gosh-darned ICs off the planet. Because they might just give bad and misleading advice, as they've sworn not to do. Hurm.
Think-But if lynching on day 1 gives a mislynch that would just make the mafia win faster, so:What happens if you are not sure of anything at the end of the first day, how would you go about picking who to random-lynch?Think: Do you approve of a lynch on day one, even if we are not fully sure of Mafia status, just some what sure?
Yes. Not lynching on Day 1 just gives scum a free kill, and means that if we have 2 mislynches, the Mafia win.
And... what looks like working with Max White in order to pressure for no-lynches D1 if one isn't "sure."
Here's a lesson about mafia, dudes.
You are pretty much never sure. You take your best guess, smear some questions, make some cases, do some reading, and hope for the best. If your case is shit and you can't prove jack, you abandon it and look for someone else. You play hardball. You look for folks tailing you, and for folks smearing you. You look for manipulators. You look for quiet people. No matter what, you have to be utterly focused on your goal at the same time as you keep your mind open to other interpretations.
Mafia is a game of insight.
It is also a game of ruthless rhetoric. Whether you're scum or town, you need to pay attention to your words, and how you say them. Those who are too concerned with this will tend to look self-preserving. However, it is important to pay attention to how you come off. This is where my theory breaks from Dakarian's, who thought that townies will tend to drop scumtells and not care. I personally believe that you should care, and notice, and remove them wherever they are not necessary. If someone votes you and you think they're scum, hammer them down with a great case and say "fuck you" to the guys who say you're OMGUSing. If you think you can make someone slip up, then yeah, stretch the evidence a little bit in order to add some more pressure. Your goal is to get the scum through whatever means necessary. Your goal should also be to minimize town suspicion on you to the absolute necessary amount.
Take risks, and then accept the consequences of your actions. Do the very best you can. This game is never clear-cut, and never will be, so do your best to follow the guidelines when helpful--and don't be afraid of ignoring them when you have the scum by the tail. That's the best way to support the town.
Final step:
Vote the object of your suspicions.
In this case: Kilakan.
I'm going to add here that I made an odd choice in the above passage.
Because I used language targeting the reader, rather than addressing the target, it could be said that I was attempting to shift the reader's suspicions to the target in a manipulative sort of way. I would find this questionable if someone else did it while paired with a lot of other things.
On the other hand, one does, generally, need support for one's suspicions. One does not suspect and accuse in a vacuum. Dakarian typically went so far as writing a big, long appeal to the rest of the players at his endgame.
So, please note here: the process of creating a case should be noted, and in the future you can expect the vast bulk of my cases to be addressed to the target.
However, there are some good reasons to address the other players, instead of the target.
First, the target may see the entire town as opposed to him, rather than simply one very, very bullheaded IC. This can create more pressure.
Second, inviting the rest of the players to examine a target can help trap folks looking to hop on a bandwagon train or buddy up. This must be done carefully with supplemental questioning for anyone you catch. If your questioning is shallow or cursory, you're just creating more false waves of suspicion for the scum to play with--you screw up both yourself and whoever you're questioning.
Let's do our best to make this a good game.
Post by: Vector on June 24, 2011, 08:53:14 pm
Don't edit your posts, even if you can slip under the edit-without-a-timestamp-margin.
Vector: How are you feeling about the game? Think you stand a good chance to win?
Fine, and of course. I'm an IC. The hard part of this game will be attempting not to piledrive the newbies and, you know, be more useful/transparent than tricky.
I'm answering this question honestly, of course. Players should generally strive to be as honest as possible. That goes for both scum and town.
Also note that Max's question is basically bullshit.
Kilakan: So, Mafia IC's seems sort of scary, right? Will you be taking the IC's on their word?
FOS (finger of suspicion--check the mafia terminology guide!) for attempting to disseminate fear. Specifically, fear of the teachers' guidance.
Well, also for asking loads and loads of bullshit questions in an attempt to appear active.
Post by: Bdthemag on June 24, 2011, 09:07:00 pm
I care because it was a suspicious act, and as such it is something I noticed, and since I noticed I brought it into light, you were avoiding having more questions asked of you, and having to give more answers.You seem to be overreacting, atleast in my opinion. You scold someone for asking a question of who they think is suspicious at the beggining of the game. Then you say he is doing minimal scum-hunting to ward of suspicion. This is the beggining of the game, its the RVS. Not alot of scumhunting can be done until someone say's something stupid.
UltraValican-Why would you assume Jim would have suspicions already? so far he has posts from two other people, though your reluctance to think of a better question, and do the minimal scum-hunting to just keep suspicion off of you I am finding pretty scummy. I have a FoS on you.
Post by: Jim Groovester on June 24, 2011, 09:26:53 pm
Well, also for asking loads and loads of bullshit questions in an attempt to appear active.
Hey, now. Baby steps.
Not everyone's going to be instantly awesome at mafia, and I'd rather encourage people to be active and ask questions, even if the questions aren't all that great, than immediately cast them down and berate them for their quality.
Actively asking questions is a fantastic trait to see in a new player.
Post by: Vector on June 24, 2011, 09:36:47 pm
Hey, now. Baby steps.
Not everyone's going to be instantly awesome at mafia, and I'd rather encourage people to be active and ask questions, even if the questions aren't all that great, than immediately cast them down and berate them for their quality.
Actively asking questions is a fantastic trait to see in a new player.
... You're right about this.
Folks should listen to Jim and feel good about themselves, because, er, I am a rather nasty player and occasionally forget people need positive feedback >_> I'll try to be nicer, since this is a failing of myself as an IC.
However, here is my main point of the original comment, which I can see needs clarification:
Asking question after question, with no followup or analysis, is going to cause you issues. The problem with setting off cycles where player A asks a question of B, which B answers while adding an unrelated question for A, etc., etc., is that it's so easy to just lob things back and forth, wasting your own time. Shitty intro questions are fine, though you should (of course) try to improve them with time. I am frankly terribly at asking RVS questions and getting data off of them, which is one of the reasons why I have such a confrontational style and try to jump straight to case-making.
Question after question between two people, though, with no/little analysis or reflection, causes tunneling and can totally pillage your ability to keep your peripheral vision. Encouraging this is a travesty.
Post by: Max White on June 24, 2011, 09:40:58 pm
Post by: TolyK on June 25, 2011, 01:26:06 am
Just saying that I won't be on AT ALL this weekend.
Post by: Max White on June 25, 2011, 01:33:19 am
Post by: TolyK on June 25, 2011, 01:37:45 am
sorry, I'm leaving now. :( Like, right now.
Darvi can do that, he just needs to post again :D
Post by: Darvi on June 25, 2011, 08:45:28 am
Whiteboard
kilakan - 2 - bdthemag, Vector
breadbocks - 1 - kilakan
Max White - 1 - UltraValican
bdthemag - 1 - Jim Groovester
Powder Miner - 1 - Think0028
Jim Groovester - 1 - breadbocks
Not voting: Max White, Powder Miner
3 votes to extend, 5 to shorten, no hammer!
Post by: UltraValican on June 25, 2011, 08:53:52 am
kikilan What did you think of vectors nice little tutorial on mafia, and particularly his tone on suggesting that you might be of an alignment that wants to hinder the town(scum basically)?
@every one who is not an IC or kikilan:(can i direct a question at everyone?) on a scale of one to ten how suspicious would you be of someone who was trying to get one of our valuble ICs lynched?
Post by: webadict on June 25, 2011, 09:23:11 am
Unvote MaxWhitePlease use only red for unvoting and voting.
kikilan What did you think of vectors nice little tutorial on mafia, and particularly his tone on suggesting that you might be of an alignment that wants to hinder the town(scum basically)?
@every one who is not an IC or kikilan:(can i direct a question at everyone?) on a scale of one to ten how suspicious would you be of someone who was trying to get one of our valuble ICs lynched?
OR FEAR MY WRATH!
Post by: kilakan on June 25, 2011, 09:40:52 am
Kilakan So, when do you think the RVS stage will end?From my previous experiences RVS rarely seems to end before the start of day two, but as of the moment, it's getting close to ending already.
Unvote MaxWhiteI don't think you read vectors tutorial very well, since it sounds to me like you've just bandwagoned him with a rather bullshit question. Though I think it's a pretty good explanation, and tutorial, though i'm getting the feeling that he's using me to draw out people like you, who jump to agree with him, without adding much of anything yourself.
kikilan What did you think of vectors nice little tutorial on mafia, and particularly his tone on suggesting that you might be of an alignment that wants to hinder the town(scum basically)?
@every one who is not an IC or kikilan:(can i direct a question at everyone?) on a scale of one to ten how suspicious would you be of someone who was trying to get one of our valuble ICs lynched?
In response to the fairly unexplained bandwagon, short of "The IC voted him so I shall too" along with my prevoiusly explained suspitions about you, mostly used to pressure you.
Unvote Breadbocks
Vote UltraValican
so I'd like to ask
UltraValican-Why would you vote me, what are your reasons?
((IC question:What exactly constitutes pointless questions, normally I see people asking what would they do if they were type things, and I thought that was vaguely how the questioning started?))
Quote from: Vector
"Large discussion"You may have missed that after I asked all those questions and talked so much, that I learned that there may not be a mafia IC, I had thought it was a certain thing. Oh and how should I go about quoting you, should I do what I've done here, or just hack out parts of your post, or repost the whole thing despite the insane clutter it will cause?
Vector-Would you consider using a patsy to draw out potential Bandwagoners a valid strategy in scum hunting?
***If I missed any questions just point me towards em, I'm reading from a phone so I may have scrolled past one****
Post by: Darvi on June 25, 2011, 09:42:42 am
I know, gurl in teh interwebz, no wai. But true.
Post by: UltraValican on June 25, 2011, 10:12:41 am
Now why would I vote you
-to get an answer out of you
- The fact that you were attempting to make me seem suspicious simply for not asking a question,
- suggesting the I agreed with someone’s argument made me seem suspicious
- Claiming that I was not asking questions on the grounds that I wast rying to evade being asked questions, again I have no problem answering anyones questions
- And my most recent reason.. REACTIONARY VOTING!
- finally its the random voting stage and you taking being singled out very badly
@Max White how do you feel about vectors accusation of kikilan
@ think0028 I've heard you've played decent scum before. Between all of the players who do you think is might likely scum.
Post by: kilakan on June 25, 2011, 10:21:29 am
Ok kikilan, the reason I voted for you was simply because I wanted you to answer my question very carefully, I was planning to unvote you when you answered my questionThe vote for you was more that I realized I was most suspicious of you, and that I had no reason to stay voted on Breadbocks, as for your reasons, it really sounds to me like you are holding the IC's in way too good of a light, you are either complementing them or siding with them on every case. As for taking being signled out badly, it's more along the lines of that I'm a usually agressive player, in defending myself and attacking. Yet again you are avoiding directly asking questions of the person confronting you.
Now why would I vote you
-to get an answer out of you
- The fact that you were attempting to make me seem suspicious simply for not asking a question,
- suggesting the I agreed with someone’s argument made me seem suspicious-Atempting to discredit/ get one of the ICS lynchedIn all fairness this reason may just be paranoia, but still atempting to discredit a valuble town asset sounds pretty scummy.
- Claiming that I was not asking questions on the grounds that I wast rying to evade being asked questions, again I have no problem answering anyones questions
- And my most recent reason.. REACTIONARY VOTING!
- finally its the random voting stage and you taking being singled out very badly
@Max White how do you feel about vectors accusation of kikilan
@ think0028 I've heard you've played decent scum before. Between all of the players who do you think is might likely scum.
UltraValican-If you have o problem answering questions, then answer me this. Why do you hold the IC's so valuable? we do have a non-playing IC for advice, is it simply that you are scummy, and attempting to avoid having the IC's targeting you by showering them with praise and complements?
Post by: UltraValican on June 25, 2011, 11:09:51 am
- to prevent a mislynch
- to prevent the townie IC from getting mislynched which would put the town at a severe disadvantage
@ kikilan which of the IC's are, you most suspicious of being scum since scum Ics seem to be a major concern for you, if it is a major concern.
Post by: kilakan on June 25, 2011, 11:19:07 am
@ kikalan wait, there is a non-playing IC? I complely forgot about him/her, in that case disregard the IC suspicion in my previous post, I was in no means trying to shower the IC's with praise and I’m not quite sure where I did try to shower them with praise. I hold the IC's valuable because this IS my first game of mafia ever so i figured it would be important to keep them alive until had a suspicion that they would be scum. So really the only reasons I was protecting the IC's werePerfectly valid reasons, but I'm not sure of you yet. To answer you question, my major concern for a mafia IC is Jim, he seems to be a bit of a lurker, and really passive scum hunter so far, it may very well be that he is just trying to go easy on us, but it is making me suspicious. Vector on the other hand, is being active, and teaching by example, while aggressive, I find it less unusual for someone to be over aggressive then passive.
- to prevent a mislynch
- to prevent the townie IC from getting mislynched which would put the town at a severe disadvantage
@ kikilan which of the IC's are, you most suspicious of being scum since scum Ics seem to be a major concern for you, if it is a major concern.
As for the townie IC being lynched, there is no sure thing that one is Mafia, and it's all likely that the neutral is giving the scum help in the scum chat, and by no means does it put us at a disadvantage, I mean we would lose a experienced player, but in that case it's likely that they will get killed at night time in the first few days. We will still get advice, and if they aren't here, it is just one less experienced player who could possibly be working against us.
UltraValican-Since I've told you my IC suspicions, I would like to ask if you have any suspicions about other people so far?
Post by: Vector on June 25, 2011, 12:53:03 pm
Unvote MaxWhite
kikilan What did you think of vectors nice little tutorial on mafia, and particularly his tone on suggesting that you might be of an alignment that wants to hinder the town(scum basically)?
Use fewer weasel words.
@every one who is not an IC or kikilan:(can i direct a question at everyone?) on a scale of one to ten how suspicious would you be of someone who was trying to get one of our valuble ICs lynched?
You can direct a question at everyone, with the danger that I might also answer it.
I would be suspicious of:
People trying to lynch an IC on good evidence: 0
People getting excited about IC-lynching just because "one might be scum and they'd be dangerous and it's better to lynch first, scumhunt never:" 5-8, depending on time and circumstance.
From my previous experiences RVS rarely seems to end before the start of day two, but as of the moment, it's getting close to ending already.
Over here, we try to end it as soon as possible. Preferably almost immediately after the start of D1. It's already over.
Though I think it's a pretty good explanation, and tutorial, though i'm getting the feeling that he's using me to draw out people like you, who jump to agree with him, without adding much of anything yourself.
I'm voting you because you're scum. You made a hell of a lot of mistakes, bucko.
((IC question:What exactly constitutes pointless questions, normally I see people asking what would they do if they were type things, and I thought that was vaguely how the questioning started?))
Questions become pointless when they're asked and you do nothing with the information retrieved but ask another question. I already explained that shitty questions exist in order to start talking, but volleying back and forth with no requests for questions on information previously revealed is a big problem.
You may have missed that after I asked all those questions and talked so much, that I learned that there may not be a mafia IC, I had thought it was a certain thing. Oh and how should I go about quoting you, should I do what I've done here, or just hack out parts of your post, or repost the whole thing despite the insane clutter it will cause?
There's a non-playing scum IC, but they don't talk in-thread; there may also be a playing IC who is scum.
You can either cut the entire body of the post and respond to the empty quote with a piece-by-piece argument, or hack it to pieces. I typically prefer the latter. Definitely don't clutter any more than necessary.
Vector-Would you consider using a patsy to draw out potential Bandwagoners a valid strategy in scum hunting?
No, because I'd never attack anyone I didn't at least somewhat suspect.
This technique has many pieces.
The first piece is the attack on the suspect.
The second piece is the encouragement to other players to consider the suspect.
The third piece is the analysis of reactions in order to find new suspects.
The fourth piece is the selection of a new primary target, or continuation of pressure.
The fifth piece is the creation of other opportunities for those who have messed up in the first round to hurt themselves.
Town is a subtle game.
we do have a non-playing IC for advice
The non-playing IC only helps the scum team. IronyOwl is actually not allowed to post in the thread.
I am going to say this once and only once:
It is good that folks suspect the ICs. However, the way to get something out of this suspicion is not to shuffle around your feet, whispering about us. Levy attacks, assaults, whatever you have to in order to get a read. We're not omnipotent. Your passive sitting about is just an entrance for the scum.
@ kikilan which of the IC's are, you most suspicious of being scum since scum Ics seem to be a major concern for you, if it is a major concern.
Too passive. You're leaving holes in your arguments for people to escape through.
Also, you generally don't have to justify your reason for asking a questions. Some questions, yes. Most questions, no.
UltraValican-Since I've told you my IC suspicions, I would like to ask if you have any suspicions about other people so far?
This is not a tit-for-tat game, and you don't have to ask permission to grill someone. Here is how to rephrase your question:
Who[m] do you suspect, UltraValican?
Post by: Think0028 on June 25, 2011, 01:32:55 pm
@ think0028 I've heard you've played decent scum before. Between all of the players who do you think is might likely scum.
1) So far I've only been scum in one game, and that game didn't even finish properly.
2) Powder Miner, because he still hasn't posted. Aside from that, I'm still asking questions.
Powder Miner: get in here.
kilakan: You've had an awfully fun time debating about ICs with UltraValican. Are you going to act on your suspicions at all? You've been tunnelling UltraValican for while now. Any questions for anyone else?
UltraValican: Why cast your vote on someone who has two votes already without explanation? Clearly after you were questioned on it you came up with reasoning. Where was it when you were actually voting him?
MAJOR PET PEEVE TIME: Seriously, guys. Take a second and look at how the other posters' names are spelled. It's very easy to just copy paste and get their name right. You have no excuse for not taking another 30 seconds to spellcheck your post and make sure you didn't get their name wrong.
Post by: breadbocks on June 25, 2011, 02:11:07 pm
Unvote MaxWhiteWoah woah woah.
kikilan What did you think of vectors nice little tutorial on mafia, and particularly his tone on suggesting that you might be of an alignment that wants to hinder the town(scum basically)?
@every one who is not an IC or kikilan:(can i direct a question at everyone?) on a scale of one to ten how suspicious would you be of someone who was trying to get one of our valuble ICs lynched?
Vote Valican. You've got some explaining to do. That's a pretty blatant bandwagon. And then you go straight to mind games by painting the ICs as some magical angels who will save us from sure destruction. Wakeupcall: They can teach equally well while dead (An exception to the only one "Bah" post is made for them.) and they have an equal chance of being scum as the rest of us. If something one of the ICs says strikes Kikilan as scummy, it's well within his responsibilities to question them on it.
Valican, do you have any points of your own in pursuing Kikilan, or are you just mooching off one of the ICs questions to drive a mislynch?
Post by: breadbocks on June 25, 2011, 02:12:53 pm
Post by: Darvi on June 25, 2011, 02:33:40 pm
We're not omnipotent.What a plot twist!
No seriously, I didn't expect that.
Post by: Vector on June 25, 2011, 02:36:03 pm
What a plot twist!
No seriously, I didn't expect that.
Until this becomes a "press X to kill scum" game, I don't have mod powers.
Just the usual dose of awesome and asskicking that comes of being Vector. I.e., what may be effective omnipotence, but not truly absolute power.
Post by: Max White on June 25, 2011, 03:37:37 pm
@every one who is not an IC or kikilan:(can i direct a question at everyone?) on a scale of one to ten how suspicious would you be of someone who was trying to get one of our valuble ICs lynched?
Hmm, 7? They could be scum, but then this is a beginner's game, so they could be missing the point. More likely paranoid scum though.
@Max White how do you feel about vectors accusation of kikilanWell let's look at her reasoning, and assess each point on it's own merit.
Yes Vector, the new player is copying the actions of the guy who knows what he is doing, and being scum is the only reason? Vector has accused both Jim and kilakan of being scum for this argument to work, as the entire thing is based on a relationship between the two. But I see a good chance that a new player wasn't exactly sure of how to g about things, so is copying the actions of somebody who does. This is hardly reasonable evidence of a scumtell.UltraValican, I've never seen you around here before, so answer me a question. As a cop, how would you determine who to inspect at night?-If you were a doctor, how would you go about determining the most likely person to be targeted by the scum at night, so you might best protect them?
Notice patterns in people copying/mirroring others. This is a subtle form of buddying I call "emotional alignment." In case you're wondering about this, I read in a book that autistic kids don't realize that they should copy their friends' opinions in order to get along with them. Identify themselves as the same team, as it were. So: buddying.
Well maybe Vector, but I think you give a new player a little too much credit. This looks a lot more like amateur scum hunting then a cunning plot devised by scum master mind.UltraValican-Why would you not reciprocate an answer to Jim? not only would it not hurt you at all, but it is a suspicious thing to do attempting to not get tied into an answer/question circle with someone and instead bounce a question onto the next person.
Notice people trying to start a fight and declare suspicion for non-suspicious things. This is also called town direction, usually performed with a dish of sidelining.
In this instance, perceive attempts to create a situation in which OMGUS-wars are occurring.
Yea, I'm lost on this one too, and putting it in the 'lulwut' pile. Not sure what logical reasoning came out here at all.The game just started. I am suspicious of no one at all.I care because it was a suspicious act, and as such it is something I noticed, and since I noticed I brought it into light, you were avoiding having more questions asked of you, and having to give more answers.
UltraValican-Why would you assume Jim would have suspicions already? so far he has posts from two other people, though your reluctance to think of a better question, and do the minimal scum-hunting to just keep suspicion off of you I am finding pretty scummy. I have a FoS on you.
. . . Righto.
At this stage we were all under the impression that one of you wanted to slit out throats, and would be supporting the mafia rather then townies, you were alredy pitted against each other. I had to convince myself that the IC's were my friends in this game (And trusting somebody isn't something you do naturally in one of these games) so I can't blame somebody for being a little paranoid.I think that the idea of a mafia IC is a bit unsettling, and as such I shall be taking both with a grain of salt, but the IC who offers the least advice would likely be my target for a potential Mafia IC.
Again: undermining the biggest town asset and pitting the ICs against each other.
Wait, let me get this right. Somebody askes what I would do as scum, with no follow up, and they asked a fine and dandy question, somebody else does the same, and it is a 'terrible question' and 'without showing any interest'. This is a massive double standard, and looks to me like Vector cares more about piling something on kilakan then hutning scum.MaxWhite-How would you avoid detection as a Scum, if you plan on taking out the lurkers at night?
For someone who is ragging on someone else for asking bad questions, he asks some pretty terrible questions.
Also seems to have a weird thing for talking to Max White, without showing any interest in the answers.
Well that wasn't just a little emotive, don;t you think Vector. This starts out with a comment on the lengh of sentances? Will we start calling scum because somebody used a semi colon when a colon was due? It even ends with a trademark 'hurm', in what has no debating value, it just undermines the integrity of the post on an emotional level.~Oh just snip, dammit.
Holy mother of Batman, that's a lot of run-on sentences.
Also, the usual issue with folks nudging other folks to consider lynching them gosh-darned ICs off the planet. Because they might just give bad and misleading advice, as they've sworn not to do. Hurm.
So now their is a relationship between kilakan and myself showing that we are scum, bringing the total to three now? Kilakan, Jim and Myself? So do you honestly think that in your first post you managed to find all three scum players, Vector? When a player asked a good question, and another gives a scumm answer, that does not mean the first player must have been conspiring with the other. What sort of half baked reasoning is that? We hunt scum, expect interesting answers from questions asked by honest people. This looks like nothing more than another attempt to tunnel kilakan.Think-But if lynching on day 1 gives a mislynch that would just make the mafia win faster, so:What happens if you are not sure of anything at the end of the first day, how would you go about picking who to random-lynch?Think: Do you approve of a lynch on day one, even if we are not fully sure of Mafia status, just some what sure?
Yes. Not lynching on Day 1 just gives scum a free kill, and means that if we have 2 mislynches, the Mafia win.
And... what looks like working with Max White in order to pressure for no-lynches D1 if one isn't "sure."
So all in all I think Vectors reasoning was total BS, focused waaay too much on one person, and those that have interacted with him (No really, other people play this game too) and didn't ask a single question.
Great, didn't want to go into all that, Vector being an IC and all, but you asked.
Post by: breadbocks on June 25, 2011, 03:51:41 pm
Post by: Max White on June 25, 2011, 03:58:24 pm
Regardless, as you cans see, being an IC won't stop me from being suspicions of somebody, or posting why if prompted.
Post by: Jim Groovester on June 25, 2011, 04:30:26 pm
@every one who is not an IC or kikilan:(can i direct a question at everyone?) on a scale of one to ten how suspicious would you be of someone who was trying to get one of our valuble ICs lynched?
This question reeks of buddying.
@ kikalan wait, there is a non-playing IC? I complely forgot about him/her, in that case disregard the IC suspicion in my previous post, I was in no means trying to shower the IC's with praise and I’m not quite sure where I did try to shower them with praise. I hold the IC's valuable because this IS my first game of mafia ever so i figured it would be important to keep them alive until had a suspicion that they would be scum. So really the only reasons I was protecting the IC's were
- to prevent a mislynch
- to prevent the townie IC from getting mislynched which would put the town at a severe disadvantage
@ kikilan which of the IC's are, you most suspicious of being scum since scum Ics seem to be a major concern for you, if it is a major concern.
And more buddying.
Is there any reason why you are both buddying up to the ICs, while at the same time testing the waters for how suspicious it would be to lynch them?
I'd say that's a pretty inconsistent thing to do. Which is scummy.
You should be careful with the questions you ask, because the ones you did just betrayed what your motives are. You should ask questions that make it look like you're interested in finding scum.
((IC question:What exactly constitutes pointless questions, normally I see people asking what would they do if they were type things, and I thought that was vaguely how the questioning started?))
Any question that doesn't lead to you finding scum somehow.
Well let's look at her reasoning, and assess each point on it's own merit.
You didn't really have to answer the question in that much detail (i.e., you could've said "It's crap" and said a brief explanation why), though it's good that you did.
Though, now that you did, you can turn some of those points into questions aimed at Vector. If you think Vector's points are bullshit, you can and should press her about it.
Max, the last line really doesn't need to be and shouldn't be there. IC shouldn't mean anything to your thought process, except when reading advice.
Yes, listen to this guy. He knows what's up.
If you don't attack us when you have reason to, that's just as bad as not attacking any other player when you have reason to.
I would prefer waiting to argue with ICs until a little later on, especially when I think one of them is scum. Might be something to learn from them.
Regardless, as you cans see, being an IC won't stop me from being suspicions of somebody, or posting why if prompted.
No, go argue with them now. You're sitting on decent points against Vector and you're not doing anything with them.
If you've got an angle on a player, pursue that motherfucking angle. Any player, whether they're an IC or not.
I hope you understand me. Delaying just gives people time to prepare a defense, and you want to catch people off guard with probing and difficult questions. That's the whole point of scumhunting.
Post by: Max White on June 25, 2011, 04:58:44 pm
UltraValican
@ JimWho are you most suspicious of at the momentWhy so paranoid? A few posts in, before some people had even posted, and already your worried about who Jim is suspicious of? One of the most powerful players in the game, who is very capable of spotting scumtells, and your worried about he's opinion.
@ Kilikan, if you were scum who would you kill, or if you feel you don't have any incentive to kill yet, how would you go about killing(For future reference, remember that vector had not yet shown to be active) for a new player, asking who to kill could very well be because they want to know who to kill. Something that could be easily answered in their scum chat, if only the other mafia player had shown up there yet.
@ kikilan, if which one of the ic's are you most worried about being scum (if your worried at all)Once again, paranoid about who is suspicious of whom. In this case he is looking to see if anybody has somehow picked out he's buddy scum.
~SnipI have been over this post. Just about every point is BS. This is the single most scummy act the entire game. It was all about incriminating Kilakan without a second glace at anybody else, apart from when it supported her argument against Kilakan. Scum trying to tunnel a new player into a mislynch first day.
[/color]kikilan What did you think of vectors nice little tutorial on mafia, and particularly his tone on suggesting that you might be of an alignment that wants to hinder the town(scum basically)?Newby mistake. Buddying your scum partner so much as to follow there lead in voting.
@every one who is not an IC or kikilan:(can i direct a question at everyone?) on a scale of one to ten how suspicious would you be of someone who was trying to get one of our valuble ICs lynched?
@Max White how do you feel about vectors accusation of kikilanFishing to see who believed Vector. He wants support against kikilan.
Massive buddying going on UltraValican behalf. Vector ignoring he's mistakes. The two of them focusing on a single player. UltraValican ultra paranoid about who is onto the scum.
Post by: Vector on June 25, 2011, 06:20:20 pm
Yes Vector, the new player is copying the actions of the guy who knows what he is doing, and being scum is the only reason? Vector has accused both Jim and kilakan of being scum for this argument to work, as the entire thing is based on a relationship between the two. But I see a good chance that a new player wasn't exactly sure of how to g about things, so is copying the actions of somebody who does. This is hardly reasonable evidence of a scumtell.
This is based on a player who has played a BM here before (before asking for replacement) copying the IC's question. It stinks.
It requires no assumption whatsoever that they are in cahoots, simply that one player is riding on the other's coattails.
Well maybe Vector, but I think you give a new player a little too much credit. This looks a lot more like amateur scum hunting then a cunning plot devised by scum master mind.
That is to be determined by the results of the attack. I didn't say I was lynch-prepped, now did I?
At this stage we were all under the impression that one of you wanted to slit out throats, and would be supporting the mafia rather then townies, you were alredy pitted against each other. I had to convince myself that the IC's were my friends in this game (And trusting somebody isn't something you do naturally in one of these games) so I can't blame somebody for being a little paranoid.
Fair.
Wait, let me get this right. Somebody askes what I would do as scum, with no follow up, and they asked a fine and dandy question, somebody else does the same, and it is a 'terrible question' and 'without showing any interest'. This is a massive double standard, and looks to me like Vector cares more about piling something on kilakan then hutning scum.
I've been over this previously in this thread, but I'll say it again: it's not so much about the questions you ask as what you do with them. One question without followup is an RVS that failed. That happens. Asking the same person 6 unrelated questions is an exercise in smokescreening absurdity.
Well that wasn't just a little emotive, don;t you think Vector. This starts out with a comment on the lengh of sentances? Will we start calling scum because somebody used a semi colon when a colon was due? It even ends with a trademark 'hurm', in what has no debating value, it just undermines the integrity of the post on an emotional level.
I'm not going to say how many people I've caught based on things like changing the way they type; often, run-ons fit with fear, and so on, and so forth. It's a valid tactic. But if you want to know, "Pandar, twice" is part of that group of people.
"Hurm" is going to stay. If you don't like it, tough pancakes.
So now their is a relationship between kilakan and myself showing that we are scum, bringing the total to three now? Kilakan, Jim and Myself?
Since when did I say Jim was scum?
Do you know something I don't?
So do you honestly think that in your first post you managed to find all three scum players, Vector?
There's two scum players in this game.
Also, no. I haven't played seriously for nearly a year, now. Good reason why I'm actually playing in a BM.
When a player asked a good question, and another gives a scumm answer, that does not mean the first player must have been conspiring with the other. What sort of half baked reasoning is that?
I suppose I should have said "playing off of Max White's question." I meant "working with the material provided, perhaps unintentionally, by Max White." My mistake.
We hunt scum, expect interesting answers from questions asked by honest people. This looks like nothing more than another attempt to tunnel kilakan.
Is there some reason why you take issue with my attacking him?
I am asking a question of him--the question everyone should be asking everyone. "Are you scum, bucko?" It just has an exclamation point, rather than a question mark, at the end. That's something you should be able to see by now.
So all in all I think Vectors reasoning was total BS, focused waaay too much on one person, and those that have interacted with him (No really, other people play this game too) and didn't ask a single question.
And I think the fact that you totally ignored my FoS on you is pretty annoying. I'd like it if you addressed that at some point, if only by saying "noted."
Your understanding of my reasoning is flawed in places--I have attempted to amend this as necessary. As you may have noticed, there was a bit of a snafu where it became clear that my understanding of the IC setup is different from that of some of the players. Kilakan's questions occurred in a different context than the one I considered obvious. I will consider unvoting him once he has responded to my allegations, as is logical.
That's right, I didn't ask any questions and I largely focused on one person, with a couple of statements on another. Why is that an issue?
Great, didn't want to go into all that, Vector being an IC and all, but you asked.
Poor baby.
I have been over this post. Just about every point is BS. This is the single most scummy act the entire game. It was all about incriminating Kilakan without a second glace at anybody else, apart from when it supported her argument against Kilakan. Scum trying to tunnel a new player into a mislynch first day.
Then why aren't you voting me?
Who was that FoS on, anyway? Was it levied for stuff Kilakan did? I'd go back and check to see what I actually wrote.
Also, no, I am not tunneling for a mislynch ::) I'm making material. Going, as always, for Zugzwang (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zugzwang).
Vector ignoring he's mistakes.
Spoiler: Nah. (click to show/hide)
It's hardly been 24 hours since game start. The fact that I don't mention every little scummy thing or attack every bad behavior head-on with full-power wrist-slapping does not mean that I'm not paying attention to it.
Post by: kilakan on June 25, 2011, 07:00:42 pm
A problem is that I can only vote on one person at a time, and my suspicions about ultravalican outweigh those for Vector. As for questions? Not really everything I can think of that would be useful is already being asked, when I think of something I'll ask it.
kilakan: You've had an awfully fun time debating about ICs with UltraValican. Are you going to act on your suspicions at all? You've been tunnelling UltraValican for while now. Any questions for anyone else?
Quote from: Vector
This is based on a player who has played a BM here before (before asking for replacement) copying the IC's question. It stinks.Ok so now your lying, what a scum move. For the record I was in a BM about 9 months ago, that ended when 4/7 players were lurkers, was not one of them, I never asked for a replacement, and both the scum were inactive, so it ended. Gratz you pick on someone for being 'experienced' in a game they played once, a long time ago, that ended halfway through.
It requires no assumption whatsoever that they are in cahoots, simply that one player is riding on the other's coattails.
As for responding to your allegations? I asked a question at basically the same type someone else did, I didn't copy, I just didn't read the ninja post, attempt to read time stamps.
You are pretty active on jumping on the slightly less nooby character, who brought up suspicions on someone who seems happy to hide under you shadow, then you attack someone else who makes a good point about the same person, seems like you are freinding and defending the other scum who's on his way to being lynched.
As for not acting on suspicions, I mainly would prefer NOT to lynch an IC day 1, when I have greater suspicions about someone else, my chat was simply to bring the point in that an IC might be scum.
Sorry for run on sentences, I'll try and spread everything out like you. If I want to explain my thoughts in a single paragraph, I think I'm allowed to in the English language.
You seem to have an awful high opinion of yourself, yet at another point claim that you haven't played in a long time and need to play a BM to practice. So either keep your self flattering ways out of here, or prove it. Use some of those awesome player skills and actually ask me some questions, juxtaposed to just pointing out minor flaws in my plan, and claiming I must be a mastermind of decit.What a plot twist!
No seriously, I didn't expect that.
Until this becomes a "press X to kill scum" game, I don't have mod powers.
Just the usual dose of awesome and asskicking that comes of being Vector. I.e., what may be effective omnipotence, but not truly absolute power.
For all the flaws I've had so far, my previous mafia experience involves real-life mafia games, sitting at a table, so much of my tactics comes from watching facial responses, not planning out questions in advance via typing.
so what else can I answer?
Post by: Darvi on June 25, 2011, 07:09:35 pm
kilakan - 3 - bdthemag, Vector, UltraValican
UltraValican - 3 - kilakan, breadbocks, Max White
bdthemag - 1 - Jim Groovester
Powder Miner - 1 - Think0028
Not voting: Powder Miner
3 votes to extend, 5 to shorten, no hammer!
Post by: Bdthemag on June 25, 2011, 07:14:55 pm
Post by: Jim Groovester on June 25, 2011, 07:28:46 pm
You are pretty active on jumping on the slightly less nooby character, who brought up suspicions on someone who seems happy to hide under you shadow, then you attack someone else who makes a good point about the same person, seems like you are freinding and defending the other scum who's on his way to being lynched.
Accusations are great. Evidence is even better. If you can find a few posts of Vector's where it can be clearly seen that this is happening, then you should bring them up. All you need to do is point to them with links or quote the most relevant part. If you do, it will greatly strengthen your case.
If you can't find any posts where this is happening, then you're essentially spouting off hot air, and hot air doesn't really make for a convincing case. Even if you can find posts where this is happening, not everybody will agree with you on it, so it's up to you to explain it better or find something else.
Powder Miner, we haven't heard a lot from either of you. Anything to say?
You should say something. Inactivity is a bad trait to have for new players. It means I can't correct their play.
Kilakan, Vector is an IC. Its her job to point out flaws in what you say, regardless of how big or small it is.
This is true, but if Vector's going to vote him for it, then kilakan gets the chance to defend himself.
Do you have anything more to add? Like, say, your thoughts on recent events? Perhaps a list of suspects?
See my point about inactivity. If you're not going out of your way to make posts then I'm going to have a hard time telling you how to improve.
Post by: kilakan on June 25, 2011, 07:39:35 pm
Kilakan, Vector is an IC. Its her job to point out flaws in what you say, regardless of how big or small it is.Pointing out Flaws is ok, pointing out non-existent flaws, backed up with lying about my experience is not.
Post by: Max White on June 25, 2011, 07:52:29 pm
This is based on a player who has played a BM here before (before asking for replacement) copying the IC's question. It stinks.Now in the original quote, you didn't just say he was copying the IC, you said he was buddying.
It requires no assumption whatsoever that they are in cahoots, simply that one player is riding on the other's coattails.
Notice patterns in people copying/mirroring others. This is a subtle form of buddying I call "emotional alignment." In case you're wondering about this, I read in a book that autistic kids don't realize that they should copy their friends' opinions in order to get along with them. Identify themselves as the same team, as it were. So: buddying.Your trying to change the meaning of your words, hoping people will forget the original context. Scummy.
That is to be determined by the results of the attack. I didn't say I was lynch-prepped, now did I?So we are meant to sit and watch you build a case, voting for another player, and even get some support, but it doesn’t count for anything until you specifically say you are ' lynch-prepped'? Bullshit. When you say something you mean it, that's why there is no edit button. Trying to downplay your attack because it has become incriminating to yourself in a scum move.
I've been over this previously in this thread, but I'll say it again: it's not so much about the questions you ask as what you do with them. One question without followup is an RVS that failed. That happens. Asking the same person 6 unrelated questions is an exercise in smokescreening absurdity.Great little scum tactic here. Not addressing the point. I pointed out there was a double standard here, and you go off on something less related. If you were scum hunting, you would have called both posts, but you chose to only point out the player who you wanted to lynch.
I'm not going to say how many people I've caught based on things like changing the way they type; often, run-ons fit with fear, and so on, and so forth. It's a valid tactic. But if you want to know, "Pandar, twice" is part of that group of people.And your most likely not going to say how many townies you have lynched like that either.
Since when did I say Jim was scum?Why you implied it in your first point. Here we have denying actions, trying to say you never inferred something. Scummy.
Do you know something I don't?
Also, no. I haven't played seriously for nearly a year, now. Good reason why I'm actually playing in a BM.You want a lolly pop? If your not up to scratch, don't IC, otherwise keep your head in the game. Being rusty is no excuse for sloppy work, especially when that sloppy work shows yourself to be scum.
I suppose I should have said "playing off of Max White's question." I meant "working with the material provided, perhaps unintentionally, by Max White." My mistake.Should have, but didn't. Why didn't you?
This is good. This is REALY good. Everybody, take note of this. I'm keeping my quote in here for this one.We hunt scum, expect interesting answers from questions asked by honest people. This looks like nothing more than another attempt to tunnel kilakan.
Is there some reason why you take issue with my attacking him?
I am asking a question of him--the question everyone should be asking everyone. "Are you scum, bucko?" It just has an exclamation point, rather than a question mark, at the end. That's something you should be able to see by now.
This is scum splitting up quotes to take them out of context, and make the scum hunter look bad. Vector just admitted she worded her question very badly, but then takes part of the quote were I point this out and tries to change the context. I was defending my right to ask questions, and she tries to infer I have a problem with attacking him. This is a scum move if you ever saw one.
[/quote]
And I think the fact that you totally ignored my FoS on you is pretty annoying. I'd like it if you addressed that at some point, if only by saying "noted."I'll get to that next post then, this one is starting to look sort of long.
That's right, I didn't ask any questions and I largely focused on one person, with a couple of statements on another. Why is that an issue?Attempting to railroad a player into being lynched, without even looking at other players. Sounds like scum.
Then why aren't you voting me?Because I only get one vote at a time, if I had a second, it would be on you.
Also, no, I am not tunneling for a mislynch ::) I'm making material. Going, as always, for Zugzwang (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zugzwang).Your trying to implement a tactic that is designed to force your opponent into making a move. Implying you know who your opponents are? You sounds like scum trying to force so much pressure onto a new player, that they crack and act like scum, despite being a townie. Your interrogating until you get a false confession.
This has just been advice, rather than actively pursuing scum tells. Your trying to help he's scum game.Spoiler: Nah. (click to show/hide)
It's hardly been 24 hours since game start. The fact that I don't mention every little scummy thing or attack every bad behavior head-on with full-power wrist-slapping does not mean that I'm not paying attention to it.
Post by: UltraValican on June 25, 2011, 07:53:20 pm
Most if not all of my questions about asking about suspicion were simply throw away questions that I could honestly care less about being answered, the most I had to gain from asking about who was suspicious of whom was to see if I had any similar suspicions, especially if the suspicion is coming from an experienced player which brings me to my next point.
I never meant to be showering the IC’s with praise, now that I know that they can still help us after they've been lynched I could now careless about an IC being lynched unless they are town.
Back to the suspicion questions, someone claimed that i should use scum chat, I don't now what the hell that is so how could I use it?
@ Max White, why are you so sure that vectors scum?
@ Breadbocks again, I did not know that Ic's were an exception to the one "bah" comment see above. My reasoning for targeting kikilan is simple
- he's done some scummy thing which I think I've explained before
- In my opinion he's the (or was) the most suspicious of me
As for me and vector, If someone could provide me a good reason why I should think vector is scum, than by all means feel free to tell me and I will unvote kikilan immediately
@ kikilan concerning my ic suspicions, vector on the acount that using his aguments about to get me killed :P
Post by: Max White on June 25, 2011, 07:57:55 pm
FOS (finger of suspicion--check the mafia terminology guide!) for attempting to disseminate fear. Specifically, fear of the teachers' guidance.The following quote is from before Vector showed up.
Now tell me, does that look like spreading fear? Your argument there is a lie, as it apparently is not what I have been doing.Kilakan: So, Mafia IC's seems sort of scary, right? Will you be taking the IC's on their word?I think that the idea of a mafia IC is a bit unsettling, and as such I shall be taking both with a grain of salt, but the IC who offers the least advice would likely be my target for a potential Mafia IC.
You should remember that these are seasoned professionals in a beginners game, I don't think they care that much about winning, but would rather get us all up to scratch to help enrich the game across the forum. I plan on taking their advice to heart.
Well, also for asking loads and loads of bullshit questions in an attempt to appear active.I'll let Jim take this one.
Hey, now. Baby steps.No need to reply, I already have it.
Not everyone's going to be instantly awesome at mafia, and I'd rather encourage people to be active and ask questions, even if the questions aren't all that great, than immediately cast them down and berate them for their quality.
Actively asking questions is a fantastic trait to see in a new player.
So that was also a half ass attempt at making me look like scum for what amounts to nothing.Hey, now. Baby steps.
Not everyone's going to be instantly awesome at mafia, and I'd rather encourage people to be active and ask questions, even if the questions aren't all that great, than immediately cast them down and berate them for their quality.
Actively asking questions is a fantastic trait to see in a new player.
... You're right about this.
Post by: Max White on June 25, 2011, 07:59:59 pm
@ Max White, why are you so sure that vectors scum?
She isn't hunting, she is just focused on lynching a single player, with what amounts to nothing.
Post by: UltraValican on June 25, 2011, 08:06:16 pm
@ Max White@ Max White, why are you so sure that vectors scum?
She isn't hunting, she is just focused on lynching a single player, with what amounts to nothing.
Okay, I finally see what you getting at here, and juging by your agument it is perfectly understandable why going behind what vector says seems scummy, I would vote vector but...theres one..teensy..problem..if I do that ill end up as dead doorstop, and im not to fond of dieing in the first round but..what the hell its just a game in
unvote kikilan
vote vector vector you have some splaining to doooooo!
Post by: Bdthemag on June 25, 2011, 08:10:08 pm
Post by: Jim Groovester on June 25, 2011, 08:14:32 pm
The best thing you have against her is that she's being hard on kilakan, while being easy on UltraValican, for unclear reasons. Everything else you have is junk. Going line by line and saying "Vector is scummy because of this thing she said," is completely ineffective and means you're dangerously close to tunneling her. Not everything Vector says is going to be scummy, and if you see it that way, then you're taking it too far.
Step back, clear your head a little, look back at it again, and ask her good questions and bring up good points.
Most if not all of my questions about asking about suspicion were simply throw away questions that I could honestly care less about being answered, the most I had to gain from asking about who was suspicious of whom was to see if I had any similar suspicions, especially if the suspicion is coming from an experienced player which brings me to my next point.
Then why did you ask the questions? How are you going to find scum by asking worthless questions you have no interest in hearing the answer to?
@ Max White
Okay, I finally see what you getting at here, and juging by your agument it is perfectly understandable why going behind what vector says seems scummy, I would vote vector but...theres one..teensy..problem..if I do that ill end up as dead doorstop, and im not to fond of dieing in the first round but..what the hell its just a game in
unvote kikilan
vote vector vector you have some splaining to doooooo!
That was quick. How about you tell me exactly what you suspect Vector for, because I don't believe you do for a second.
Unvote, UltraValican.
Post by: kilakan on June 25, 2011, 08:17:11 pm
FOS on UltraVatican, first of all you seem to jump the bandwagon on vector to divert attention from yourself. You have three people voting for you, and a few people start saying that Vector is acting scummy. So you promptly change votes and switch to Vector. This seems pretty scummy to me.You are gone all this time and that's the only thing you can point out. Lurker scum. You are still voting with just the RVS, you haven't followed up on that RVS, and you've contributed nothing so far. Trying to hide or what, you better start being active, because you are actually here, but you are definitely trying to hide.
Post by: UltraValican on June 25, 2011, 08:18:33 pm
FOS on UltraVatican, first of all you seem to jump the bandwagon on vector to divert attention from yourself. You have three people voting for you, and a few people start saying that Vector is acting scummy. So you promptly change votes and switch to Vector. This seems pretty scummy to me.Why would I puposly put myself on the chopping block to divert attention, in voting for vector, I haver basically dug my on grave, which defeats the purpose of trying to distract people. If Vector WAS my scumbuddy and if i were scum then there would be no point in me trying to put atention on him since he's relativly safe from being lynched today.
Post by: Max White on June 25, 2011, 08:20:28 pm
Why would I puposly put myself on the chopping block to divert attention, in voting for vector, I haver basically dug my on grave, which defeats the purpose of trying to distract people. If Vector WAS my scumbuddy and if i were scum then there would be no point in me trying to put atention on him since he's relativly safe from being lynched today.So basically, you want everybody to go through a WIFOM thought process, and come out believing that you are innocent, because you act guilty?
Post by: Bdthemag on June 25, 2011, 08:22:48 pm
Just because I haven't posted for one page doesn't mean im lurking. I prefer not to make giant ass reports. You seem to be trying to pressure me in taking my vote off of you.FOS on UltraVatican, first of all you seem to jump the bandwagon on vector to divert attention from yourself. You have three people voting for you, and a few people start saying that Vector is acting scummy. So you promptly change votes and switch to Vector. This seems pretty scummy to me.You are gone all this time and that's the only thing you can point out. Lurker scum. You are still voting with just the RVS, you haven't followed up on that RVS, and you've contributed nothing so far. Trying to hide or what, you better start being active, because you are actually here, but you are definitely trying to hide.
Post by: Jim Groovester on June 25, 2011, 08:25:19 pm
Just because I haven't posted for one page doesn't mean im lurking. I prefer not to make giant ass reports. You seem to be trying to pressure me in taking my vote off of you.
Yes it does.
You should post more. You're around a lot, aren't you?
I hate having to prod new players in Beginner's Games. Be active of your own accord.
FOS on UltraVatican, first of all you seem to jump the bandwagon on vector to divert attention from yourself. You have three people voting for you, and a few people start saying that Vector is acting scummy. So you promptly change votes and switch to Vector. This seems pretty scummy to me.Why would I puposly put myself on the chopping block to divert attention, in voting for vector, I haver basically dug my on grave, which defeats the purpose of trying to distract people. If Vector WAS my scumbuddy and if i were scum then there would be no point in me trying to put atention on him since he's relativly safe from being lynched today.
Keep ignoring my questions, scumfucker. See how well that works out for you.
Post by: UltraValican on June 25, 2011, 08:26:43 pm
@ Jim MY previous post should explain why there is no point in diverting attention away from myself
Quote
So basically, you want everybody to go through a WIFOM thought process, and come out believing that you are innocent, because you act guilty?
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
The reason I'm voting vector is to prove to everyone that im am not scum, which now is a top priorty considering theres going to be a noose around my neck by the time the sun rises in ice cream land. I denounce any instance of agreeing with him.
@ jim no need to be rude I was getting to that you double townie.
Post by: Jim Groovester on June 25, 2011, 08:31:09 pm
Well I'm bonedHaving lots of FUN
@ Jim MY previous post should explain why there is no point in diverting attention away from myself\
I don't give a shit about that. I want you to answer the questions I asked you directly.
Do you understand me?
The reason I'm voting vector is to prove to everyone that im am not scum, which now is a top priorty considering theres going to be a noose around my neck by the time the sun rises in ice cream land. I denounce any instance of agreeing with him.
So, what? You don't actually think she's scum?
Maybe you ought to rethink exactly what you're supposed to be voting people for. You do not vote people to save your own skin. You vote people because you think they are scum.
Your reasons are utterly atrocious and insufficient and contradictory with what you've previously stated on the matter and I've got no qualms about seeing you hang today. Maybe if you actually start scumhunting for real instead of this lazy charade you've been doing this whole time you've got a chance of making it through to Day 2.
You've got you're work cut out for you. I suggest you hop to it, otherwise, your neck's in the noose.
@ jim no need to be rude I was getting to that you double townie.
I'll be as fucking rude as I want to be.
Post by: Max White on June 25, 2011, 08:32:26 pm
It means just about the same thing in these games.Well I'm bonedHaving lots of FUN
That is called distancing. It is a common scum move, and not proof of anything. If anything, your eagerness to try that tactic was what got you into this.QuoteSo basically, you want everybody to go through a WIFOM thought process, and come out believing that you are innocent, because you act guilty?Spoiler (click to show/hide)
The reason I'm voting vector is to prove to everyone that im am not scum, which now is a top priorty considering theres going to be a noose around my neck by the time the sun rises in ice cream land. I denounce any instance of agreeing with him.
@ jim no need to be rude I was getting to that you double townie.
Post by: breadbocks on June 25, 2011, 08:35:18 pm
@ Breadbocks again, I did not know that Ic's were an exception to the one "bah" comment see above. My reasoning for targeting kikilan is simpleYe gods, this is difficult to read.
- he's done some scummy thing which I think I've explained before
- In my opinion he's the (or was) the most suspicious of me
Anyways, this does nothing to alleviate my suspicions, and your jumping on the Vector bandwagon only further condemns you in my eyes, and every post you get worse.
Post by: Darvi on June 25, 2011, 08:36:48 pm
UltraValican - 4 - kilakan, breadbocks, Max White, Jim motherfucking Groovester
kilakan - 2 - bdthemag, Vector
Powder effing Miner - 1 - Think0028
Vector - 1 - UltraValican
Not voting: Powder Miner
3 votes to extend, 5 to shorten, no fucking hammer!
How's that fo' rude?
Post by: Max White on June 25, 2011, 08:38:18 pm
White friggin' board
Hey, what I do with the board is none of your business!
Post by: Think0028 on June 25, 2011, 08:38:34 pm
Post by: Darvi on June 25, 2011, 08:39:42 pm
If he doesn't post until I get up on Monday I'll prod him. Unless Tolyk does it first.
Post by: kilakan on June 25, 2011, 08:42:47 pm
Kilakan So, when do you think the RVS stage will end?Good enough question, for the start, doesn't really add much does it?
Jim Groovester how do you imagine the game is going to play out compared to the last few Begginer games you IC'ed in?Yet again, relativity pointless, but not altogether a bad question, Minimal to not get noticed.
Pretty great contradiction there, you say that someone should have suspicions and as such it is a good question, then you turn 180* and say that's it's the beginning of the game and the RVS stage, so not much scumhunting is done.I care because it was a suspicious act, and as such it is something I noticed, and since I noticed I brought it into light, you were avoiding having more questions asked of you, and having to give more answers.You seem to be overreacting, atleast in my opinion. You scold someone for asking a question of who they think is suspicious at the beggining of the game. Then you say he is doing minimal scum-hunting to ward of suspicion. This is the beggining of the game, its the RVS. Not alot of scumhunting can be done until someone say's something stupid.
UltraValican-Why would you assume Jim would have suspicions already? so far he has posts from two other people, though your reluctance to think of a better question, and do the minimal scum-hunting to just keep suspicion off of you I am finding pretty scummy. I have a FoS on you.
Kilakan, Vector is an IC. Its her job to point out flaws in what you say, regardless of how big or small it is.This makes sense, but again doesn't add anything.
FOS on UltraVatican, first of all you seem to jump the bandwagon on vector to divert attention from yourself. You have three people voting for you, and a few people start saying that Vector is acting scummy. So you promptly change votes and switch to Vector. This seems pretty scummy to me.So you bandwagoning on the UltraValican train isn't wrong?
You've given no reason to keep the vote, no reason to vote anyone else, and then rat on not making giant reports, all your quotes together barely makes a normal post. You've posted often enough just without any real substance, and you are not helping anything. Thus you are a lurker in actual work towards scumhunting, and that's scummy, you post barely enough to not get noticed, yet not so much you do get noticed. Who are we watching out for here, yourself. That's a scum move.Just because I haven't posted for one page doesn't mean im lurking. I prefer not to make giant ass reports. You seem to be trying to pressure me in taking my vote off of you.FOS on UltraVatican, first of all you seem to jump the bandwagon on vector to divert attention from yourself. You have three people voting for you, and a few people start saying that Vector is acting scummy. So you promptly change votes and switch to Vector. This seems pretty scummy to me.You are gone all this time and that's the only thing you can point out. Lurker scum. You are still voting with just the RVS, you haven't followed up on that RVS, and you've contributed nothing so far. Trying to hide or what, you better start being active, because you are actually here, but you are definitely trying to hide.
Post by: kilakan on June 25, 2011, 08:44:42 pm
Post by: Max White on June 25, 2011, 08:45:37 pm
Post by: Bdthemag on June 25, 2011, 08:46:14 pm
breadbocks: You were in the last beginner game I played, and I've seen you play others, how do you consider yourself a beginner still, and what do you believe you need improvement at that would constitute you still being in a Beginner game?Kilakan's first question is innocent enough. Nothing wrong with asking this.
-If you were a doctor, how would you go about determining the most likely person to be targeted by the scum at night, so you might best protect them?
I care because it was a suspicious act, and as such it is something I noticed, and since I noticed I brought it into light, you were avoiding having more questions asked of you, and having to give more answers.Kilakan after seeing Valican's post, immediately jumps on him for what seems
UltraValican-Why would you assume Jim would have suspicions already? so far he has posts from two other people, though your reluctance to think of a better question, and do the minimal scum-hunting to just keep suspicion off of you I am finding pretty scummy. I have a FoS on you.
to me a simple RVS question. Its the start of the game and he is already accusing
people of not doing any scumhunting.
I don't think you read vectors tutorial very well, since it sounds to me like you've just bandwagoned him with a rather bullshit question. Though I think it's a pretty good explanation, and tutorial, though i'm getting the feeling that he's using me to draw out people like you, who jump to agree with him, without adding much of anything yourself.Without a follow up question to Breadbocks, he then votes Vatican. This is
In response to the fairly unexplained bandwagon, short of "The IC voted him so I shall too" along with my prevoiusly explained suspitions about you, mostly used to pressure you.
Unvote Breadbocks
Vote UltraValican
so I'd like to ask
UltraValican-Why would you vote me, what are your reasons?
either him OMGUSing, or buddying.
UltraValican-If you have o problem answering questions, then answer me this. Why do you hold the IC's so valuable? we do have a non-playing IC for advice, is it simply that you are scummy, and attempting to avoid having the IC's targeting you by showering them with praise and complements?He then goes on to say that Vatican is "Showering" the IC's with praise and complements.
Which is frankly a stupid accusation to make towards a new player in a game with experienced players
helping out the newer ones.
Right now it seems to me Kilikan either likes to play "aggressive" only towards
people who disagree with him or vote for him.
Also excuse me for the format of the post, I just wrote it up in notepad for some reason.
Post by: Darvi on June 25, 2011, 08:50:20 pm
Um Darvi, your white board has 3 votes for me but two names.That's because Vector is actually a double voter. And now I must modkill you for finding out this secret.
Post by: Max White on June 25, 2011, 08:51:16 pm
I saw that edit.Um Darvi, your white board has 3 votes for me but two names.That's because Vector is actually a double voter. And now I must modkill you for finding out this secret.
Post by: UltraValican on June 25, 2011, 08:51:51 pm
I wouldn't have to distance myself if you didn't lump me and him together in the first place.
as for evidence...
I have very little and what little evidence I do have dosn't realy matter since every thing I've said and done has led to a quest to smite me.
@ Jim as to my "pointless questions", when I said they were poitless i should have elaborated a little more. I was asking them to gain intell on who thought what about whom but seeing as that has landed me in hot water
You know what screw it
No I’m not that’s just my inner douche talking
I personally have no idea who’s who so unvote vector
NO vote
After all, of this i haven’t the time to gather info do to me trying to save my own ass
but Jims right I have been lazy in this game and i took things a bit to lightly and now I’ve paid the price
However, that’s beside the point
@ Vector, how much fun are you having watching me fall into your little alignment trap and get your ass out here.
*takes out cigar*
Well gentlemen it’s been a blast and a pleasure playing goodnight and good luck
Also if the Ics are going to critique me mark "self preservation" off the list, I've think I learned my lesson about where that gets you.
Sorry about spelling and grammer.
Post by: kilakan on June 25, 2011, 08:55:04 pm
Quote from: Bdthemag
Right now it seems to me Kilikan either likes to play "aggressive" only towardsI like to play agressive to everyone I go after.
people who disagree with him or vote for him.
Quote from: Bdthemag
Kilakan after seeing Valican's post, immediately jumps on him for what seemsI was trying to force him into losing his cool, and breaking quickly. If you look at the current situation it seems to have worked.
to me a simple RVS question. Its the start of the game and he is already accusing
people of not doing any scumhunting.
Quote from: Bdthemag
Without a follow up question to Breadbocks, he then votes Vatican. This isIt was still in the RVS stage, I saw an opening with Valican and I used a vote to pressure him.
either him OMGUSing, or buddying.
Quote from: Bdthemag
Also excuse me for the format of the post, I just wrote it up in notepad for some reason.Is this a preemptive, that's not what I mean? No you aren't excused, you don't get to be excused, write it the god damn right way that you want it to be the first time.
Now reply to my last set.
@ Max WhiteCommon scum tell is self preservation, townies win even if they die. Besides it's the weekend, you have 2 days before anyone dies, really isn't a time to fully break now.
I wouldn't have to distance myself if you didn't lump me and him together in the first place.
as for evidence...
I have very little and what little evidence I do have dosn't realy matter since every thing I've said and done has led to a quest to smite me.
@ Jim as to my "pointless questions", when I said they were poitless i should have elaborated a little more. I was asking them to gain intell on who thought what about whom but seeing as that has landed me in hot water
You know what screw itI am scum
No I’m not that’s just my inner douche talking
I personally have no idea who’s who so unvote vector
NO vote
After all, of this i haven’t the time to gather info do to me trying to save my own ass
but Jims right I have been lazy in this game and i took things a bit to lightly and now I’ve paid the price
However, that’s beside the point
@ Vector, how much fun are you having watching me fall into your little alignment trap and get your ass out here.
*takes out cigar*
Well gentlemen it’s been a blast and a pleasure playing goodnight and good luck
Also if the Ics are going to critique me mark "self preservation" off the list, I've think I learned my lesson about where that gets you.
Sorry about spelling and grammer.
Post by: Think0028 on June 25, 2011, 08:56:41 pm
Under no condition should you simply give up in a game! If you no longer feel like playing, or feel that Mafia is not the game for you, talk to the mod if necessary and ask for a replacement. However, simply giving up and asking to be lynched is extremely rude to everyone else! It hurts your team, and Mafia is a chaotic game: it is quite possible you can survive even the most dismal of situations. If you do not want to or do not feel you can, however, ask for a replacement, so that the game may go on.
Post by: Jim Groovester on June 25, 2011, 08:57:35 pm
Right now it seems to me Kilikan either likes to play "aggressive" only towards
people who disagree with him or vote for him.
You want my opinion?
It has nothing to do with who kilakan agrees or disagrees with. If kilakan thinks your play is insufficient, he's got good reason to think that way.
I've told you the exact same thing, but you completely ignored what I had to say. I mean, I'm just the IC. What do I know?
You know what screw itI am scum
You shouldn't say things like that. There are more than enough people here who wouldn't think twice about lynching you for saying that, even if they know you're joking.
I'm one of them.
Post by: UltraValican on June 25, 2011, 09:17:56 pm
Theres still hope for my sorry ass
Vote Vector
I still want to hear what you have to say about all of this.
My Reasoning behind this
Even at the begining of the game I may have had a slight dispostion against kikilan, i am still slightly suspicious of him but not as much as vector
I feel that vector may have picked up on my disposition against kiklan and used it to drive a mislynch. Why?
Almost all of the players agree that ive been sucking up to the ICs, so vector took advantage of this and puposly made the post seem like it was levying against kikilan, to make me seem like i was all to eager to jump on the bandwagon i hopes to drive a mislynch. other than that I have no real thoughts on the other players at the moment besides several crackpot theorys, and if the above accusation isn't scumhunting you may need to give me a definition of what that is, that only reason I've done minimum scum be because im not playing mafia right now, I'm playing UltraValican v.s everybody else
@ Jim Groovester
I have my finger of suspicon on you to, you've seem to be all to eager to have me killed for just about anything now.
Again apologize for spelling and grammer.
Post by: Jim Groovester on June 25, 2011, 09:35:37 pm
@ Jim Groovester
I have my finger of suspicon on you to, you've seem to be all to eager to have me killed for just about anything now.
Again apologize for spelling and grammer.
Gwahahaha.
If I had a nickel for every time a noob suspected me for giving them crap about their game, why, I'd have a dollar.
There's nothing wrong with wanting to see people lynched. It's how the game is played, after all. You might object to it being you, but your objections don't make strong bases for your suspicions.
Pffffft, just about anything. The gall.
Post by: UltraValican on June 25, 2011, 09:37:47 pm
Post by: Vector on June 25, 2011, 10:09:41 pm
I'll stick to the obvious:
Jesus fuck, you guys.
What the hell is all this.
Post by: kilakan on June 25, 2011, 10:11:10 pm
I'm going to go get dinner, and then I'm going to come post. But right now, if I talk I'll just say stupid things.A beginner mafia game?
I'll stick to the obvious:
Jesus fuck, you guys.
What the hell is all this.
Post by: UltraValican on June 25, 2011, 10:12:25 pm
I'm going to go get dinner, and then I'm going to come post. But right now, if I talk I'll just say stupid things.ScottValican vs the motherf***ing world sir or madam, thats all this is.
I'll stick to the obvious:
Jesus fuck, you guys.
What the hell is all this.
Post by: Max White on June 25, 2011, 10:13:58 pm
Post by: Vector on June 25, 2011, 10:28:39 pm
Madam. Vector is female. Has long girly hair and rides a giant eagle, also had a crush on one of her professors. Or maybe I have said too much...
Vector also placed second in the "manliness" competition here, is majoring in math (and possibly rhetoric!), and enjoys beating shit with sticks.
Oh, and I pretty much ran this board for a while--set up a lot of the bureaucracy and standards, anyway.
Y'all are welcome :D
Post by: UltraValican on June 25, 2011, 10:31:18 pm
Post by: Max White on June 25, 2011, 10:32:04 pm
Post by: Vector on June 25, 2011, 10:39:25 pm
If you want to brag that your dick is bigger than mine, the Games Threshold Discussion thread would be ideal. Until then, I await your epic manly reply.
Yeah, my dick is huge. So huge that I don't have one.
I'm still eating dinner >_>
Post by: UltraValican on June 25, 2011, 10:40:41 pm
If you want to brag that your dick is bigger than mine, the Games Threshold Discussion thread would be ideal. Until then, I await your epic manly reply.
Help, the bad people ar talking about there no-no parts!!! I need an ADULT!!!!!!
Post by: Max White on June 25, 2011, 10:41:04 pm
Post by: UltraValican on June 25, 2011, 10:49:05 pm
I am an adult.
OH NOES, but in all seriuosness we should take this somewhere else I'm sure the others won't apreciate coming back to further grill my incompetent and aparently scummy ass and find this bastard of a converstion.
Post by: Vector on June 25, 2011, 10:50:57 pm
We'll thank you for getting me boned just so you know...you have some explaining to do.
No, you got you boned. I made a post, you reacted, and you boned yourself. You don't get to pin this one on me, attractive as it may be.
Explanations pending.
Post by: UltraValican on June 25, 2011, 10:58:48 pm
Before I start:We'll thank you for getting me boned just so you know...you have some explaining to do.
No, you got you boned. I made a post, you reacted, and you boned yourself. You don't get to pin this one on me, attractive as it may be.
Explanations pending.
Fair enough, any advice( I don't give a damn if your scum or not) on how to unbone myself?
Post by: Vector on June 26, 2011, 12:10:42 am
Spoiler: Response to Kilakan (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Response to Max White (click to show/hide)
More in a minute.
Post by: Vector on June 26, 2011, 12:16:59 am
So that was also a half ass attempt at making me look like scum for what amounts to nothing.
. . . I FoS'd you.
Why are you so fucking jumpy? Yeah, I didn't get much out of the FoS. So what? I pointed out something I thought was a bit off; it turned out that all was clear. Now you're hyperventilating about me "trying to lynch Kilakan" and "trying to make you look like scum."
Cool it.
@ Max White, why are you so sure that vectors scum?
She isn't hunting, she is just focused on lynching a single player, with what amounts to nothing.
. . . I focused on attacking a single player, and every one of my allegations turned out to be cleared. That is how hunting works.
One more time. I posted an attack, waited for a response, and unvoted.
Responses to UltraValican in the next post.
Post by: Vector on June 26, 2011, 12:51:20 am
Okay, I finally see what you getting at here, and juging by your agument it is perfectly understandable why going behind what vector says seems scummy, I would vote vector but...theres one..teensy..problem..if I do that ill end up as dead doorstop, and im not to fond of dieing in the first round but..what the hell its just a game in
"I would bandwagon, but I'd die?"
Really?
And here I was thinking you'd voted me because... oh, right.
The reason I'm voting vector is to prove to everyone that im am not scum, which now is a top priorty considering theres going to be a noose around my neck by the time the sun rises in ice cream land. I denounce any instance of agreeing with him.
Yeah, that's not contradictory at all.
I have very little and what little evidence I do have dosn't realy matter since every thing I've said and done has led to a quest to smite me.
You're playing the victim. Your emotional appeals are foul.
You also know that people who are smote are generally, you know, sinners... right? Your word choice looks pretty bad, here.
@ Vector, how much fun are you having watching me fall into your little alignment trap and get your ass out here.
I warned you about it and you pushed yourself in. You even call it the "alignment trap," thus implying that you fell in based on alignment.
This is somewhat pathetic.
I came back as soon as I could. I had important things to do, like making sure I have somewhere to live in August.
Even at the begining of the game I may have had a slight dispostion against kikilan, i am still slightly suspicious of him but not as much as vector
There was no implication that you were ever suspicious of me until Max White counter-attacked. There was no implication that you were suspicious of Kilakan until I attacked.
I feel that vector may have picked up on my disposition against kiklan and used it to drive a mislynch. Why?
He isn't dead. There is no "mislynch" that has been driven, and Kilakan's alignment has not yet been revealed.
Almost all of the players agree that ive been sucking up to the ICs, so vector took advantage of this and puposly made the post seem like it was levying against kikilan, to make me seem like i was all to eager to jump on the bandwagon i hopes to drive a mislynch.
I attacked Kilakan, yes. There is no "purposely made it seem," here. I, in fact, attacked Kilakan all by myself. You, in fact...
Unvote MaxWhite
kikilan What did you think of vectors nice little tutorial on mafia, and particularly his tone on suggesting that you might be of an alignment that wants to hinder the town(scum basically)?
@every one who is not an IC or kikilan:(can i direct a question at everyone?) on a scale of one to ten how suspicious would you be of someone who was trying to get one of our valuble ICs lynched?
Bandwagoned. Passively. While asking
a. what my target thought of my attack and whether I was being too aggressive.
b. whether or not we should all have a party and go kill Kilakan.
You are responsible for your own behavior, scumbucket. You chose to bandwagon after I warned against it. I played softly for you and didn't immediately rip you to shreds, even giving you advice--you continued to vote-hop for inane reasons. You drove your own mislynch. If this is a result of psychological weakness, that weakness is your own.
other than that I have no real thoughts on the other players at the moment besides several crackpot theorys
Better to put this out there than apply all this bullshit.
and if the above accusation isn't scumhunting you may need to give me a definition of what that is
Go reread Dakarian's Scumhunting Bible.
that only reason I've done minimum scum be because im not playing mafia right now, I'm playing UltraValican v.s everybody else
I seem to remember a part of the game where no one was attacking you and I was, in fact, giving you extra leeway--which you wasted by hopping from one bandwagon to another, after you'd already been told to quit it.
Also, I'm a girl.
Post by: Vector on June 26, 2011, 01:05:39 am
Fair enough, any advice( I don't give a damn if your scum or not) on how to unbone myself?
Reread the thread. Stop being so fucking jumpy. Ask some questions of people. Think seriously about whether or not someone is lying.
Reread Dakarian's Scumhunting Bible, five times if you have to, and then try to follow what it says.
Oh, and keep on improving your punctuation. It actually helps a lot.
I'll be doing a thread reread tomorrow to get a fuller picture of this entire mess. For those who are wondering why I'm not voting UltraValican, I'll just say that there's no point in putting my vote on someone who's already been "hammered," and who I'm starting to think/hope is just a really, really bad player. Like ExKirby. He never jumped out of his pants or OMGUSed when he got voted, he deflated. He engages in conspiracy theories and jokes about a "list of advice for next time." All these little things that I see newbie town doing all the time, but don't see scum ever falling into. Scum have their own mistakes.
Not that he shouldn't be lynched just for precedent reasons (because no one who admits to being scum gets to stay), but I figured I'd make my opinion known.
Anyway, more tomorrow.
For now, I want a prod on Powder Miner. It's been more than 24 hours. Yeah, weekends don't count, but he wasn't here on Friday, either. It's high time for him to show up.
Post by: Max White on June 26, 2011, 02:02:03 am
. . . I thought he was copying the IC's question in order to slide himself onto the IC's side, which I thought was town. Buddying. Buddying is when scum sidle up to townies. It doesn't require both participants to be scum.And you think copying somebody that is there to be a good example is scummy?
Exactly the same thing I said in both quotations
You seriously think I was trying to lynch him with that post--the very first of the game? What's your damage?Questioning? I sure didn't see any questions. Just the largest case built against another player so far. If that was questioning, you took it to an extreme far beyond anybody else, including Jim, another IC. That was no questioning, that was a case.
I ran into the thread, jumped on the first scumtell I saw, and built a case in order to apply pressure. I voted the person in question. What, do we not vote during RVS now? Do we not vote the person we're questioning?
Make no mistake, I meant everything I said. Kilakan looked scummy as hell. I received new information (the goal of an attack, in case you were wondering) and he looked less scummy. Then he proceeded to not look scummy at all. That's the way it works when you attack for information and happen to get the wrong guy. Often it takes more time than this, but this is good for now.Yea, you unvoted. After some pressure was put on you. In fact you were so late to unvote that it was in the very post I am quoting that you finally did unvote. I can't predict what you are going to do, so unvoting is hardy justification for anything beforehand.
Furthermore, don't blame me for that the "support" I got--i.e. opportunistic bandwagoners, some of the response I was trying to draw out if I didn't manage to strike scum! It's not like I encouraged them. I even warned them about the trap I was laying, but they fell in it anyway.I'm blaming the bandwagoners for their bandwagoning. Thus where my vote is.
So, uh. What's this downplaying? You need to learn the difference between assault and attempted murder, bucko.So that's your excuse? You weren’t trying to vote anybody out, you were just in it for shits and giggles. Well that is some what unprovable.
I'll remind myself, next time, to call out every single scummy thing that anyone does immediately, never allow scum to relax and think that they're okay so that I can check for particular behaviors, never set traps for people and nudge them in. I'll make it totally clear for everyone exactly what I'm doing at all times. Furthermore, I'll never do anything but ask questions until I'm ready to lynch someone. Damn, I'm glad that I chose to play in this game, because the ICs are so smart, and there's so many of them to educate little old me.
I even warned them about the trap I was laying, but they fell in it anyway.
I don't follow. Your contradicting yourself.
I was pretty tired.So you were in a state where you were more likely to say something stupid to reveal yourself as scum, and when you did, you blame being tired? Being tired is hardly any excuse. Nobody forced you to play. If your in a state of mind where a slip of the tongue might give yourself away, it isn;t my fault.
I'm not railroading him into being lynched. There's a reason why I said I'd consider unvoting after he replied.So if things go well, you keep up the attack, and if things go badly you lay off. Problem is that things went badly either way. If your mafia then things seem to have gone very badly, and plenty of reason to lay off. Saying that hardly covers your ass.
Furthermore, it's fairly clear that I looked at other players, given that I had an FoS on you. Or perhaps that doesn't count anymore.You put FoS on the guy who you linked to your target. Putting FoS on me served to help your case against Kilakan.
... You said it was the single scummiest action in the game. I guess you're just saving me for later, once you've flushed out the partner I don't have? Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.Your still an IC, and I'm still looking for tips and hints. I would prefer to milk you for all your worth. Thus why I was reluctant to go into any of this. If you get lynched for day, we just lost a lot of good advice first day, even if you are scum. Not good taking the context of the game into account.
Uh... my attack is based on the idea that any move the scum team makes is a bad move, and that I just need to be able to interpret it as such. Yeah, I know the basic idea of who my opponents are--whoever got the scum roles in their PMs (for those watching at home, no, I don't actually have the names or something). I'm pretty intimately familiar with that role and its associated hangups. I'm fairly confident that my tactics will work, better and better as I polish them through the years.If your looking to interpret moves in a negative way, your going to start seeing scum moves where there are none. Anything can be scummish if you use WIFOM enough.
And now, as your IC, I will say something:Ok, so against the players you played against it took a lot of effort to crack a townie. Were these players thick skinned, experienced players, who were on a similar skill level to yourself, or new players? I mean have you seen the beginners vengeful? It took a page or two to have me looking like scum, despite being a townie.
I've cracked townies before, accidentally--as town. It usually happened by harassing them for 6 or more pages and analyzing every single thing they posted in the worst possible light. I've also cracked as town. A lot.
Never took so little as a single post. You cannot make that allegation without a hell of a lot more material to work with.
I gave him an opportunity to shape up or ship out. Often, in BMs (or to noobs in other games), when someone has been just exploding with scumtells I try to give them advice. Scum often find themselves incapable of taking this advice. The beginner townies catch on soon enough.
I also played "softly" in order to get reactions from everyone else. As I said--making material.[/spoiler]
Softly...I ran into the thread, jumped on the first scumtell I saw, and built a case in order to apply pressure.Yes, very soft.Folks should listen to Jim and feel good about themselves, because, er, I am a rather nasty player and occasionally forget people need positive feedback >_> I'll try to be nicer, since this is a failing of myself as an IC.Nice and easy and soft.. . . I FoS'd you.If you haven’t noticed, I like to give full answers.
Why are you so fucking jumpy? Yeah, I didn't get much out of the FoS. So what? I pointed out something I thought was a bit off; it turned out that all was clear. Now you're hyperventilating about me "trying to lynch Kilakan" and "trying to make you look like scum."
Cool it.And I think the fact that you totally ignored my FoS on you is pretty annoying. I'd like it if you addressed that at some point, if only by saying "noted."I was just giving you what you wanted. I couldn't care less about your FoS, and figured it's two measly points were some what feeble, enough so that I couldn't care, but you pushed for a reply. Then, when you got one, I'm suddenly 'jumpy'? You wanted me to say something to incriminate myself, then when I didn't, you decided to make something up.
Post by: Max White on June 26, 2011, 02:03:17 am
I gave him an opportunity to shape up or ship out. Often, in BMs (or to noobs in other games), when someone has been just exploding with scumtells I try to give them advice. Scum often find themselves incapable of taking this advice. The beginner townies catch on soon enough.Softly...
I also played "softly" in order to get reactions from everyone else. As I said--making material.
I ran into the thread, jumped on the first scumtell I saw, and built a case in order to apply pressure.Yes, very soft.
Folks should listen to Jim and feel good about themselves, because, er, I am a rather nasty player and occasionally forget people need positive feedback >_> I'll try to be nicer, since this is a failing of myself as an IC.Nice and easy and soft.
. . . I FoS'd you.If you haven’t noticed, I like to give full answers.
Why are you so fucking jumpy? Yeah, I didn't get much out of the FoS. So what? I pointed out something I thought was a bit off; it turned out that all was clear. Now you're hyperventilating about me "trying to lynch Kilakan" and "trying to make you look like scum."
Cool it.
And I think the fact that you totally ignored my FoS on you is pretty annoying. I'd like it if you addressed that at some point, if only by saying "noted."I was just giving you what you wanted. I couldn't care less about your FoS, and figured it's two measly points were some what feeble, enough so that I couldn't care, but you pushed for a reply. Then, when you got one, I'm suddenly 'jumpy'? You wanted me to say something to incriminate myself, then when I didn't, you decided to make something up.
Post by: Jim Groovester on June 26, 2011, 02:52:28 am
I can't leave anybody here unsupervised, can I?
You have a model of how a good player plays. I have a model of how a good player plays.
Yep. Me!
I'll be doing a thread reread tomorrow to get a fuller picture of this entire mess. For those who are wondering why I'm not voting UltraValican, I'll just say that there's no point in putting my vote on someone who's already been "hammered," and who I'm starting to think/hope is just a really, really bad player.
I don't approve.
Your vote should always be where your suspicions lie, regardless of whether or not a player's been hammered already. It's a cowardly move not to.
However, you've already stated that you don't think he's scum, which is something I don't have a problem with.
Max White, you're tunneling. Remember when I warned you about it? You might try listening, instead of ignoring me and going off to do the exact thing I warned you against.
You're giving Vector a hard time for no good reason. Not that I don't think Vector can handle it, she can, but it's a complete waste of time for you to do this.
So I've got to ask: Why did you ignore me and go against my advice and decide that tunneling Vector was really the smartest thing to do? I am the IC. I do not like being ignored.
If you're going to keep up this attack, you better justify every accusation you've made with evidence. I don't want your suppositions about Vector's motives, which are basically complete bullshit. I want posts, and the ones you link better make it clear to everyone exactly what your accusations are and where they're coming from.
I think you'll find this difficult, and that means your attack amounts to nothing. Forcing a baseless attack is a scummy thing to do, and your time would be better spent looking elsewhere, or for more effective evidence.
...This is exactly why I hate walls of text. They completely obfuscate whatever argument you have, and you and your target get so completely absorbed into sniping each other into worthless line by line arguments that nobody can or wants to follow. It's the most demanding method to scumhunt but it's one of the least effective. Don't do them. They're stupid. Always focus on the most effective and damning evidence. Always. Your argument will be vastly more convincing because other players don't have to wade through metric tons of worthless argumentation to see your points.
Post by: Max White on June 26, 2011, 03:03:40 am
Since many of you are going to have no idea what to do and will mangle scumhunting in just about every possible way, it does you no good to hold back. So be bold, and just do the best you can. Ask lots of questions, try to get a good feel for how the game is played. I'll be there to help you when you go wrong.
Oh Jim, I'm so confused :P. Ok, change of tact. I'm going to get back onto what I was looking at before Vector showed up then. Putting Vector into the 'to do' basket.
Be back after rereading the thread.
Post by: Jim Groovester on June 26, 2011, 03:16:34 am
Good on you for being bold, but you're also (mostly) wrong, and it's my job to tell you when that happens.
You've still got some (some) stuff worth looking at about Vector, but is taking her posts line by line and saying everything she's doing is scummy the way to do it? No. It's not. That's a waste of your time, and it ruins your case.
Focus and press on your most effective points. Calling Vector scum because she unvoted late is not an example of effective evidence.
Fair enough, any advice( I don't give a damn if your scum or not) on how to unbone myself?
It's never too late to start scumhunting. A real effort at scumhunting, not just trying to save your skin. If you make a real effort at scumhunting, you'll find that all your votes will magically disappear.
The reason this is, is because scumhunting is the one and only way to look like town. One and only. Isn't it convenient how the one and only way to look like town is also the best way to look for scum? Amazing how these things work. It's like we thought this through.
Also, listen to Think0028. Never give up. Giving up gives everybody no reason to reconsider their votes. Of course, not giving up isn't going to instantly do that either, but it certainly helps.
Post by: Vector on June 26, 2011, 03:22:30 am
IC is pronounced icy, by the way. Think of this post like ice cream. It is so chill. So sweet.
And you think copying somebody that is there to be a good example is scummy?
Down to the very question asked--not verbatim, but close enough? Yeah, I generally consider that to be a scumtell. In this instance I'm dropping it because the other evidence has become totally inconclusive, and that tell alone is no longer an acceptable voting offense.
Kind of like if I went around everywhere copying Webadict. He isn't "there to be a good example" in quite the same way, but if I were going to copy someone and have an excuse for doing so, I'd copy him. And, hopefully, I'd get in trouble for it.
Questioning? I sure didn't see any questions. Just the largest case built against another player so far. If that was questioning, you took it to an extreme far beyond anybody else, including Jim, another IC. That was no questioning, that was a case.
... I should explain myself.
In higher-powered games, very frequently part of the RVS will involve grabbing some poor sap who has done something vaguely scummy and beating the crap out of them to see what happens; usually, the "beating the crap out of them" stage is pretty short. Some other people drop random scumtells (Solifuge, I am looking at you); others break the usual protocol and just call the town to lynch a particular person, straight up. Reaction-testing, in a word. In this instance, I thought I had a lot of material to work with. If you let anyone onto it while you're doing it, it doesn't work--and it pretty much only works during RVS.
Yes, that was "questioning," because I wasn't sure about him. I acted sure about him in order to become sure about him... mafia has some intricacies like that. Questioning in that it was focused information-seeking behavior, guided by internal lack of knowledge, not in that it contained statements ending with question marks. A case in that it was an analysis of a large body of behavior, not in that it was a lynch attempt. Damn this English language.
And yes, I take these things to extremes. If you remember from the thread, before the game started, there's a reason why "House Vector" is known for being an extremely aggressive and risky style across the board. This is what it looks like, though it has developed a little bit since I dropped out of school.
Make no mistake, I meant everything I said. Kilakan looked scummy as hell. I received new information (the goal of an attack, in case you were wondering) and he looked less scummy. Then he proceeded to not look scummy at all. That's the way it works when you attack for information and happen to get the wrong guy. Often it takes more time than this, but this is good for now.Yea, you unvoted. After some pressure was put on you. In fact you were so late to unvote that it was in the very post I am quoting that you finally did unvote. I can't predict what you are going to do, so unvoting is hardy justification for anything beforehand.
That quotation says nothing about voting or unvoting. The quotation you quoted explains that I was not attempting to lynch Kilakan. I do not understand why you have suddenly started talking about my unvote, or lack thereof, as justification for your hyperbole.
Furthermore, don't blame me for that the "support" I got--i.e. opportunistic bandwagoners, some of the response I was trying to draw out if I didn't manage to strike scum! It's not like I encouraged them. I even warned them about the trap I was laying, but they fell in it anyway.I'm blaming the bandwagoners for their bandwagoning. Thus where my vote is.
The quotation in question has to do with whether or not I had an intent to lynch, and whether bandwagoners jumping on my vote can refer to my intentions. Please stop bending the facts.
So, uh. What's this downplaying? You need to learn the difference between assault and attempted murder, bucko.So that's your excuse? You weren’t trying to vote anybody out, you were just in it for shits and giggles. Well that is some what unprovable.
I don't see why I need an "excuse" for a post which you magically decided was a lynch attempt.
I was not in it for shits and giggles. I was also not in it for a lynch. There is space between fucking around and lynching.
I'll remind myself, next time, to call out every single scummy thing that anyone does immediately, never allow scum to relax and think that they're okay so that I can check for particular behaviors, never set traps for people and nudge them in. I'll make it totally clear for everyone exactly what I'm doing at all times. Furthermore, I'll never do anything but ask questions until I'm ready to lynch someone. Damn, I'm glad that I chose to play in this game, because the ICs are so smart, and there's so many of them to educate little old me.I even warned them about the trap I was laying, but they fell in it anyway.
I don't follow. Your contradicting yourself.
I warned them about one part of one trap. It's not like I warned them about all the traps that might have confused them. That would've just been no fun.
Above, I outlined an extreme behavior, as explained through bolded type. The fact that I occasionally agreed with that behavior does not mean that, in not adhering to its exact opposite, I was contradicting my general point.
I was pretty tired.So you were in a state where you were more likely to say something stupid to reveal yourself as scum, and when you did, you blame being tired? Being tired is hardly any excuse. Nobody forced you to play. If your in a state of mind where a slip of the tongue might give yourself away, it isn;t my fault.
You asked why, and so I told you why. I posted while tired because I was excited about playing this game and I wanted to make sure I did a good job as an IC--that I got out there and gave a good example of an attack, so that folks would have a model. The last time I IC'd, by the way, my team lost and I was blamed. I really want to make sure that that doesn't happen this time.
I never said it was your fault. Stop putting words in my mouth.
I'm not railroading him into being lynched. There's a reason why I said I'd consider unvoting after he replied.So if things go well, you keep up the attack, and if things go badly you lay off. Problem is that things went badly either way. If your mafia then things seem to have gone very badly, and plenty of reason to lay off. Saying that hardly covers your ass.
No, things went well either way. If I find scum, I win. If my case is cleared and I get a good townie vibe from whomever, I also win. If my case isn't cleared and I have lots of data from other people, I still win. No matter what, I get what I want.
If my case weren't cleared and I had no data from other people, I wouldn't be ICing.
You put FoS on the guy who you linked to your target. Putting FoS on me served to help your case against Kilakan.
Not really. I don't see how it made my case on him stronger at all. It's not like I said "Welllll, if there weren't this thing from Max, I'd unvote you!"
As far as I can tell, it just served to piss you off. That ended up being helpful, but it's taken a while.
Uh... my attack is based on the idea that any move the scum team makes is a bad move, and that I just need to be able to interpret it as such. Yeah, I know the basic idea of who my opponents are--whoever got the scum roles in their PMs (for those watching at home, no, I don't actually have the names or something). I'm pretty intimately familiar with that role and its associated hangups. I'm fairly confident that my tactics will work, better and better as I polish them through the years.If your looking to interpret moves in a negative way, your going to start seeing scum moves where there are none. Anything can be scummish if you use WIFOM enough.
Well, lookie here... isn't that exactly what can be applied to your entire argument against me? Step back and take a look for about two minutes before you restart the attack.
Seriously, is there some reason why you're trying to teach me how to play? I didn't say "interpret negatively," I said "is bad for scum." The scum have to act, and that is bad for scum, because with every word they throw out there's a better probability that I catch them.
And with every word that you throw out, you look like more and more of a tunneling dumbass.
Ok, so against the players you played against it took a lot of effort to crack a townie. Were these players thick skinned, experienced players, who were on a similar skill level to yourself, or new players? I mean have you seen the beginners vengeful? It took a page or two to have me looking like scum, despite being a townie.
You seem to not understand the meaning of "cracking a townie" in this case. Cracking a townie means that they'll basically do anything to make it stop, because you're psychologically assaulting them. It's something I try really hard not to do. It isn't "make them look like scum," it's "make them feel cornered and desperate." It isn't that hard to do to most people, either, especially if they're impatient. It just takes a long time.
And yes, because I was a beginner when I did it, they were new players. So was I. Check out BMII, if you like. Or, if you want to see me being cracked (by Free Beer), check out NSBMI. It takes a long time to crack a beginner and longer time to crack most skilled players.
I gave him an opportunity to shape up or ship out. Often, in BMs (or to noobs in other games), when someone has been just exploding with scumtells I try to give them advice. Scum often find themselves incapable of taking this advice. The beginner townies catch on soon enough.Softly...
I also played "softly" in order to get reactions from everyone else. As I said--making material.I ran into the thread, jumped on the first scumtell I saw, and built a case in order to apply pressure.Yes, very soft.Folks should listen to Jim and feel good about themselves, because, er, I am a rather nasty player and occasionally forget people need positive feedback >_> I'll try to be nicer, since this is a failing of myself as an IC.Nice and easy and soft.
I already explained why I don't apply equal pressure to everyone, and why I thought I would get particular advantages out of playing more gently in UltraValican's direction. As such, I am not rehashing those explanations. Just because my usual description might include the words "flaming asshole" doesn't mean that, in not playing to type at all times, I am lying.
I was just giving you what you wanted. I couldn't care less about your FoS, and figured it's two measly points were some what feeble, enough so that I couldn't care, but you pushed for a reply. Then, when you got one, I'm suddenly 'jumpy'? You wanted me to say something to incriminate myself, then when I didn't, you decided to make something up.
I wanted you to reply. This is perfectly reasonable.
Do you know what the Org Theory of Scummitude is? It's that if you make an accusation and someone ignores it, it's actually true. I've actually used it to find multiple trolls online. It doesn't just work in Mafia. As such, it's important to me to try really hard to get an answer, instead of just letting people hop out of town. False positives in the OToS are really, really bad and end up being difficult to dig your way out of.
So I could have gone with that, but seeing as it was just a little FoS, I figured I wouldn't make a big deal out of it.
You're sitting here like a rabbit on crack blowing everything I say out of proportion, reading extremes into my statements, looking for contradictions that aren't there, and ... get this... when I accuse you of something, correct or not, you make a big show about how I want you to say something to incriminate yourself and turn to making things up when I can't find something.
Look at your posts for just five minutes and see for yourself just how you come off. See if it's jumpy or not. Not "Oh no, I'm scum!" jumpy, but "Hoho, I am so ragingly masculine and watch me hop back and forth shouting en garde!" jumpy. You aren't being clever. You aren't "trapping" me. You aren't even applying any sort of pressure, because I'm about as afraid of you as I am of a toothpick.
You are being as annoying as fuck. I say this with the greatest softness I can muster in my tone: "Max White, you are pissing me off and I want to boot you in the face right now." But because I don't think you're scum, I'm not voting you. So stop being such a chittering bag of febrile tit-monkeys and shape up.
Post by: Vector on June 26, 2011, 03:25:44 am
However, you've already stated that you don't think he's scum, which is something I don't have a problem with.
Pretty much. The mileage I'd get out of voting him over the same shit everyone's voted him for is less than the mileage I'd get out of bothering someone I suspect more and questioning him without a vote. Adding a vote will do nothing good unless I want to lynch him, because he's already pretty much cracked. So, since I need more data before I'd want to lynch, I'm going to hopefully put my vote elsewhere and my questions thereish.
Post by: Max White on June 26, 2011, 03:32:46 am
You are being as annoying as fuck. I say this with the greatest softness I can muster in my tone: "Max White, you are pissing me off and I want to boot you in the face right now." But because I don't think you're scum, I'm not voting you. So stop being such a chittering bag of febrile tit-monkeys and shape up.
Man, it's too bad I just buried the hatchet, because that was some what amusing. I'll have to pick this up again some time later on then. :P
In the meantime, only a few pages to go.
Post by: Max White on June 26, 2011, 03:49:34 am
Can we please poke Powder Miner?
Post by: Darvi on June 26, 2011, 07:55:02 am
Vector also placed second in the "manliness" competition here, is majoring in math (and possibly rhetoric!), and enjoys beating shit with sticks.If enjoying to beat people with sticks is a quality that makes people "manly", that would put me on your level, only because you're better at math :V
I need an ADULT!!!!!!'sup. Whiteboard time.
... nothing happened. Cool.
I leave here for a couple hours and then everybody starts talking about Vector's penis.Soooo going to OoC this.
Just as a reminder, the day ends next Wednesday 12 PM Central, unless there's extensions or shortenings. Whenever this 12 PM is because every day has two of them and wherever Central time is because I have no idea when that is either.
Post by: UltraValican on June 26, 2011, 08:57:54 am
I can't really blame you for thinking I’m scum considering that I’ve done everything I’m NOT supposed to do( and I've been an ass about) that’s why I’m requesting a replacement. I might try again next time good luck and if I have done something rude or something that offends ANYONE, I apologize. Good Luck to all, I am hoping this turns out to be a valuable learning experience for everyone.
Post by: Darvi on June 26, 2011, 09:07:40 am
Post by: UltraValican on June 26, 2011, 09:11:42 am
Post by: lordnincompoop on June 26, 2011, 11:10:18 am
And after all, you'll never learn if you never try.
Post by: Darvi on June 26, 2011, 11:42:49 am
And after all, you'll never learn if you never try.This. Chances are, once you keep asking for replacements the instant you start looking bad, you'll keep doing it in further games and never learn.
Never mind that it means trouble for mods and other players alike.
Post by: UltraValican on June 26, 2011, 11:44:57 am
Post by: TolyK on June 26, 2011, 01:16:10 pm
First note: replies ~170-181 were ... umm... :-X
Second note: ACTIVITY AHOY!
Third note: ... except for a few certain someones.
Fourth note: Remember that this is a Beginner's Mafia, a full-fledged game, yes, but still you might not want to bang everyone else on the head with a giant car.
Fifth note: wait what did I just say?
Sixth note: darn too many notes
Seventh note: Prodded Powder Miner.
Spoiler: Eighth note: (click to show/hide)
Post by: Jim Groovester on June 26, 2011, 02:48:38 pm
Why so quiet, quietfaces?
Post by: UltraValican on June 26, 2011, 02:56:08 pm
Post by: TolyK on June 26, 2011, 03:05:13 pm
the other guys posted, they won't be prodded until maybe monday.
Post by: kilakan on June 26, 2011, 03:57:17 pm
Post by: Max White on June 26, 2011, 04:01:21 pm
ORLY?Think: Do you approve of a lynch on day one, even if we are not fully sure of Mafia status, just some what sure?
Yes. Not lynching on Day 1 just gives scum a free kill, and means that if we have 2 mislynches, the Mafia win.
You have been given every reason, and every chance to lynch UltraValican, yet you have not. Why the change of heart?
Post by: TolyK on June 26, 2011, 04:02:21 pm
Post by: Darvi on June 26, 2011, 04:02:53 pm
Well, if the day ends todayIt doesn't. And believe me, nobody's gonna get 15 shorten votes in that short time.
Ninja.
Post by: Think0028 on June 26, 2011, 04:07:50 pm
Think0028, Powder Minder, Bdthemag, all three of you are quiet.
Why so quiet, quietfaces?
I only woke up two hours ago, and half my time has been spent just reading everything that got posted. Jim's point about walls of text from the last page sums up everything I feel in a nutshell. That said, currently UltraValican hasn't responded to the question I posted.
Kilakan: Fair enough. Seeing as you've since additionally started questioning BD, I'm currently satisfied.
Powder Miner: poooooooost. While my vote is currently on him (originally as an RV, lingering because he's a lurker), as he hasn't been on since Friday morning, I'm beginning to suspect he will eventually need a replacement.
UltraValican:
UltraValican: Why cast your vote on someone who has two votes already without explanation? Clearly after you were questioned on it you came up with reasoning. Where was it when you were actually voting him?You jumped on a bandwagon, you're panicking, you 'confessed', pinning blame on other posters, asking for a replacement when under pressure. Can you give explanations for why you did these?
BD: You've been tunnelling kilakan for a while now. Have any suspicions on anyone else? Your evidence to date is
Quote from: Bdthemag
Right now it seems to me Kilikan either likes to play "aggressive" only towards.
people who disagree with him or vote for him.
1) For concluding that someone's scum, that's pretty insufficient. Do you have more reasoning? Not just your
2) You post again after seeing some of UltraValican's reactions and kilakan's responses to you and you... promptly do nothing. What gives? Going to interact with your main suspect?
Max: what the fuck are you talking about. I'm not voting no lynch, I'm voting Powder Miner. I seriously have no idea what the fuck you're suggesting.
Post by: Max White on June 26, 2011, 04:23:00 pm
Max: what the fuck are you talking about. I'm not voting no lynch, I'm voting Powder Miner. I seriously have no idea what the fuck you're suggesting.
Why Powder Miner? While he hasn't posted anything yet, we are not hunting for the least active player, we are after scum. He hasn't had a chance to incriminate himself yet. UltraValican has, however, had every chances, and taken every one of them, and still you keep your vote on Powder Miner. Why do you want to lynch somebody day 1, just not UltraValican. Do you know something I do not?
Post by: Think0028 on June 26, 2011, 04:37:07 pm
Max: what the fuck are you talking about. I'm not voting no lynch, I'm voting Powder Miner. I seriously have no idea what the fuck you're suggesting.
Why Powder Miner? While he hasn't posted anything yet, we are not hunting for the least active player, we are after scum. He hasn't had a chance to incriminate himself yet. UltraValican has, however, had every chances, and taken every one of them, and still you keep your vote on Powder Miner. Why do you want to lynch somebody day 1, just not UltraValican. Do you know something I do not?
UltraValican: I'm debating whether he's a cracked beginner or a cracked scum, and I want to see his responses some more, especially as the day doesn't end until Wednesday. I explained why my vote's staying on Powder Miner: he's lurking, and I don't want him to just skirt by on that alone.
... Wait, are you thinking that we're doing hammers? Because my vote won't suddenly lynch him, this is deadline, whoever has the most votes come the end of the day.
Post by: Max White on June 26, 2011, 04:39:50 pm
Well that is heart breaking. I thought this was an 'on the edge of our seats' moment, with the day ready to end at a single vote now that it was just one vote for majority. What will the viewers at home think?
Ah well...
Post by: UltraValican on June 26, 2011, 04:52:45 pm
Post by: Max White on June 26, 2011, 04:57:16 pm
You still have time, just relax, and know that votes aren't personal, and will go away very quickly once something more relevant comes up. Believe it or not, but every person in this thread is working for you in one way or another, doing there best to find and confirm scum, even if you are scum you can use that to your advantage.
Post by: Bdthemag on June 26, 2011, 04:59:18 pm
Post by: UltraValican on June 26, 2011, 05:01:17 pm
You jumped on a bandwagon, you're panicking, you 'confessed', pinning blame on other posters, asking for a replacement when under pressure. Can you give explanations for why you did these?
UltraValican: Why cast your vote on someone who has two votes already without explanation? Clearly after you were questioned on it you came up with reasoning. Where was it when you were actually voting him?
They all have one or two similar explanations choose whichever one you like
1. I suck at this game, I really suuuuckIf there is another question feel free to ask me.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
ninja'd
I'm not that upset if theres one thing df taught me its how to have FUN. I'm still reviewing the other posts.
Post by: UltraValican on June 26, 2011, 05:02:26 pm
Post by: kilakan on June 26, 2011, 07:52:58 pm
Post by: Jim Groovester on June 27, 2011, 05:58:57 pm
I hate them.
Get in here and post, dammit.
Post by: Powder Miner on June 27, 2011, 06:17:42 pm
Post by: Max White on June 27, 2011, 06:21:05 pm
Sorry, I was out at my grandparents' cabin with no wi-fi. I'll be checking the thread over now. I'll do a more detailed post in a bit.Holy crap, Powder is here!
Post by: Powder Miner on June 27, 2011, 06:22:47 pm
Post by: Max White on June 27, 2011, 06:27:41 pm
Plus it makes for some pretty good entertainment, so, you know, get reading!
Post by: Vector on June 27, 2011, 07:17:49 pm
Meh. Screw this. Reading fifteen pages is a monumental task. Anyway, to the question I was asked earlier, I would naturally want either of the ICs on my scumteam- their experience would give me a significant boost.
I don't think this is the response you wanted to give.
I think the response you actually intended to ply us with involved more quotes of other people's statements, with responses afterwards--perhaps even containing a bit of budding snark, a touch of elegant alliteration.
Barring that, stupid-ass questions like "Who would you protect if you were the doctor" or "what are your suspicions right now."
But I'm not voting right now, and you're already starting to piss me off. Get to work or I'll vote you instead one of the other sorry shlubs I've got my eye on.
Post by: Think0028 on June 27, 2011, 07:25:44 pm
Post by: UltraValican on June 27, 2011, 07:45:37 pm
Bd, kilakan, UltraValican: The three of you promised posts. I see no posts. This is a problem.
Do you have any questions, cause i still have nothing.
Post by: Vector on June 27, 2011, 07:49:55 pm
Bd, kilakan, UltraValican: The three of you promised posts. I see no posts. This is a problem.
Do you have any questions, cause i still have nothing.
a. Reread the game.
b. If at any point you don't understand someone's motivation for asking a question/making a particular retort, or something seems fishy, put it in your Big Fat Reply with a query under it.
c. If you find any contradictions, put them down, too, with the possible addendum of "what the fuck is this," or similar.
d. When you start getting information back, consider who you should vote. Either that, or vote the person with the most incomprehensible/contradictory quotes (other than yourself).
Post by: Jim Groovester on June 27, 2011, 07:57:25 pm
Bd, kilakan, UltraValican: The three of you promised posts. I see no posts. This is a problem.
Do you have any questions, cause i still have nothing.
Nothing's going to just fall in your lap. Go look for it.
You're still top target to hang. If you want to live, I suggest putting a little more effort into scumhunting than you are right now.
Post by: Powder Miner on June 28, 2011, 12:07:38 am
Upon close questioning of his vote on someone, he withdraws, unvotes and doesn't even ask any questions or even attempt to scumhunt. He proceeds to stay like this, getting in a completely unrelated conversation whilst still not scumhunting. You continue to be jumpy and bandwagon people with no prior reasoning, and whenever questioned on it you pull off again from voting. Oftentimes you (this may sound a bit hypocritical coming from me, but whatever) try to get out of suspicion by lamenting about your newbieness. I sucked too but at least I tried to get scum. All you have is a half-hearted attempt to look like you are, with horrible logic that looks like you just put nonsense and prior reasoning in a blender, set to "crush ice", and dumped the haphazard chunks all over your bandwagons. Now, I'm not an IC. I don't have to feel mercy for you because you suck. So I'm going to press you, without mercy, I want an explanation for your actions. And not "I suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck". UltraValican. Pressure vote. Answer.
Post by: Vector on June 28, 2011, 12:31:37 am
Give me your second pick.
Post by: kilakan on June 28, 2011, 06:04:14 am
Meh. Screw this. Reading fifteen [pages is a monumental task. Anyway, to the question I was asked earlier, I would naturally want either of the ICs on my scumteam- their experience would give me a significant boost.You know what, that's bloody wierd, just don't post, or atleast be a little more non-chalant about it.
Bd, kilakan, UltraValican: The three of you promised posts. I see no posts. This is a problem.Ya, well sometimes things roll over to other days, and I have something to say, just look at the bottom of this post.
Bleh I sleeped in super late again, like really late. Give me a bit to post.For the amount you are active on the rest of the forums buddy you must be a god damn sloth. Post a bloody reply or just admit you are scum, or that you need a replacement.
Read the thread! And I'm going to start with my suspicions on UltraValican, based on what I've read. I kind of forgot the first few pages but:Gratz, you just repeated everything else everyone already said with a bit about a blender. At this moment a pressure vote is bloody pointless, try asking some other people some questions. For having as much time as you did, You should have been able to atleast comment on a few other things.
Upon close questioning of his vote on someone, he withdraws, unvotes and doesn't even ask any questions or even attempt to scumhunt. He proceeds to stay like this, getting in a completely unrelated conversation whilst still not scumhunting. You continue to be jumpy and bandwagon people with no prior reasoning, and whenever questioned on it you pull off again from voting. Oftentimes you (this may sound a bit hypocritical coming from me, but whatever) try to get out of suspicion by lamenting about your newbieness. I sucked too but at least I tried to get scum. All you have is a half-hearted attempt to look like you are, with horrible logic that looks like you just put nonsense and prior reasoning in a blender, set to "crush ice", and dumped the haphazard chunks all over your bandwagons. Now, I'm not an IC. I don't have to feel mercy for you because you suck. So I'm going to press you, without mercy, I want an explanation for your actions. And not "I suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck". UltraValican. Pressure vote. Answer.
Bloody hell man, atleast go back and attempt to re-answer some of the questions you blew so hard the first time.Bd, kilakan, UltraValican: The three of you promised posts. I see no posts. This is a problem.
Do you have any questions, cause i still have nothing.
As for powderminer finally showing up, and BD being as quite as a dead man, I'd like to vote to EXTEND
((OK IC's-I'm going to be having minimal time until Sunday of this week on the computer, for a number of different reasons, largest being work. I can still read most things using my phone (which costs me a lot of money if I try and post), and I'll attempt to get a good post in atleast once a day, but if this is gonna be a problem I'd like to ask for a replacement now, rather then get voted out for being a lurker. I figured it would be best to warn everyone ahead of time.))
Post by: UltraValican on June 28, 2011, 08:41:31 am
Read the thread! And I'm going to start with my suspicions on UltraValican, based on what I've read. I kind of forgot the first few pages but:Okay, you want an explanation on what I did here is your explanation
Upon close questioning of his vote on someone, he withdraws, unvotes and doesn't even ask any questions or even attempt to scumhunt. He proceeds to stay like this, getting in a completely unrelated conversation whilst still not scumhunting. You continue to be jumpy and bandwagon people with no prior reasoning, and whenever questioned on it you pull off again from voting. Oftentimes you (this may sound a bit hypocritical coming from me, but whatever) try to get out of suspicion by lamenting about your newbieness. I sucked too but at least I tried to get scum. All you have is a half-hearted attempt to look like you are, with horrible logic that looks like you just put nonsense and prior reasoning in a blender, set to "crush ice", and dumped the haphazard chunks all over your bandwagons. Now, I'm not an IC. I don't have to feel mercy for you because you suck. So I'm going to press you, without mercy, I want an explanation for your actions. And not "I suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck". UltraValican. Pressure vote. Answer.
Quote
You continue to be jumpy and bandwagon people with no prior reasoning, and whenever questioned on it you pull off again from voting. Oftentimes you (this may sound a bit hypocritical coming from me, but whatever) try to get out of suspicion by lamenting about your newbieness. I sucked too but at least I tried to get scum. All you have is a half-hearted attempt to look like you are, with horrible logic that looks like you just put nonsense and prior reasoning in a blender, set to "crush ice", and dumped the haphazard chunks all over your bandwagons.That is exactly what I intended to do, jump on bandwagons for people I was suspicous of.
@ Vector why the sudden vote for powder miner?
Post by: Powder Miner on June 28, 2011, 11:36:16 am
And my second pick would probably be you Vector, for your early tunneling of kilakan. It seemed rather like you were just tryign to get him lynched, not scumhunting.
Post by: Powder Miner on June 28, 2011, 11:37:48 am
Post by: kilakan on June 28, 2011, 11:45:00 am
Bandwagons are scummy because they show you want to get someone lynched with no real reasoning. AKA scum trying to thin the ranks.I'm not defending her, but that's a crappy reason to call someone scummy, there's plenty of other things shes done you could call her on. The tunneling I just took as attempting to make me break quickly, sort of what I tried on UltraValican, though he was easier.
And my second pick would probably be you Vector, for your early tunneling of kilakan. It seemed rather like you were just tryign to get him lynched, not scumhunting.
Kilakan, everyon else has mentioned that because hmmmm I've been kinda gone for15 pages and not been there to make responses.Boo bloody hoo, think of something else, like in the last couple of pages, not that hard to come up with new ideas or point out things people missed. Hell even discuss the things that other people pointed out.
If you can't think of anything to add to the UltraValican discussion then go after a different person, kinda interesting how you call him scummy for bandwagoning but you voting him when you regurgitate what you read about him and then vote him isn't scummy?
Sorry, I was out at my grandparents' cabin with no wi-fi. I'll be checking the thread over now. I'll do a more detailed post in a bit.Powder Miner-A detailed post isn't just recapping what other people discussed, Even if you don't wanna draw from the first 10 pages, pick up something to comment on that's recent and actually your thoughts.
Post by: Vector on June 28, 2011, 01:10:35 pm
@ Vector why the sudden vote for powder miner?
I voted for Powder Miner because I think he's scum. Either that, or a really bad player--and in either case I'm going to press him until he becomes
a. a better player or
b. dead
First he showed up and decided not to do anything except answer the RVS on him. I gave him a framework for how he should behave upon coming into the thread late. He ignored it and double-bandwagoned, citing other people's arguments.
And my second pick would probably be you Vector, for your early tunneling of kilakan. It seemed rather like you were just tryign to get him lynched, not scumhunting.
Oh, it did? Thank you for rehashing Max White's argument for me, and choosing the second-most-discussed target. I feel that you have fulfilled my question most nobly.
Now you have the same burden on you that Max White had.
How did it seem that I was "just trying to get him lynched?" What does scumhunting look like?
Here's a cute hint: in my book, you aren't doing it. Ask me a question or throw a quote at me, but don't just lazily pick up bandwagons like your top scum pick.
Hypocrite.
Post by: Darvi on June 28, 2011, 03:26:32 pm
UltraValican - 5 - kilakan, breadbocks, Max White, Jim Groovester, Powder Miner
Powder Miner - 2 - Think0028, Vector
kilakan - 1 - bdthemag
Vector - 1 - UltraValican
3 votes to extend, 5 to shorten, no hammer!
One vote for extension!
Post by: Vector on June 28, 2011, 03:27:59 pm
Do you have a case or a query to do with that vote, or do you want it sitting on me and chewing the fat?
Post by: TolyK on June 28, 2011, 03:29:21 pm
:o
Post by: UltraValican on June 28, 2011, 03:39:19 pm
Oh, and UltraValican:
Do you have a case or a query to do with that vote, or do you want it sitting on me and chewing the fat?
Oh unvote vector
no vote
Wouldn't want a mislynch now would we? :P
Post by: Vector on June 28, 2011, 03:45:01 pm
Now find someone and ask them a question, bucko.
Post by: Ottofar on June 28, 2011, 03:48:21 pm
Meh. Screw this. Reading fifteen [pages is a monumental task. Anyway, to the question I was asked earlier, I would naturally want either of the ICs on my scumteam- their experience would give me a significant boost.
Protip: Go to your profile page and set displayed posts per page to 50.
Post by: Bdthemag on June 28, 2011, 04:40:06 pm
Post by: Vector on June 28, 2011, 04:57:32 pm
So, I have no real evidence against Kilikan so im going to have to Unvote him. At the time I thought it would be best to try to get information out of him, although I have to say it failed. Im not going to keep my vote on him any longer due to the fact I have nothing against him at this point.
Uh-huh.
Top two scumpicks after him, please. If you don't have any, pick a few people and start asking them questions. They can be anyone, though the less scrutiny they've been under, the better.
Post by: kilakan on June 28, 2011, 05:06:27 pm
So, I have no real evidence against Kilikan so im going to have to Unvote him. At the time I thought it would be best to try to get information out of him, although I have to say it failed. Im not going to keep my vote on him any longer due to the fact I have nothing against him at this point.You still have no reply to anything I said about you 2 pages ago. You sir are either terrible or you are scum.
Post by: Max White on June 28, 2011, 05:48:32 pm
Post by: Bdthemag on June 28, 2011, 05:54:06 pm
Powder Miner read the last 15 pages, then tell me what you think of Max Whites responses to Vectors questions. DO EET.
Post by: Vector on June 28, 2011, 05:55:25 pm
Powder Miner read the last 15 pages, then tell me what you think of Max Whites responses to Vectors questions. DO EET.
Provide me with the motivation for this question, please.
Post by: Bdthemag on June 28, 2011, 05:57:54 pm
My general planning with this is, do to the responses to your questions it got me a bit suspicious of Max White. Since Powder Miner and Max White are my scumpicks then im going to see his response to Max White. If its something along the lines of "Blah blah blah he's not suspicious" then that shows signs of buddying. If its something along the lines of "YEAH HE IS SCUMMY" that might be something along the lines of a bus.Powder Miner read the last 15 pages, then tell me what you think of Max Whites responses to Vectors questions. DO EET.
Provide me with the motivation for this question, please.
This totally makes more sense in my head.
Post by: Vector on June 28, 2011, 06:11:04 pm
If its something along the lines of "Blah blah blah he's not suspicious" then that shows signs of buddying. If its something along the lines of "YEAH HE IS SCUMMY" that might be something along the lines of a bus.
This totally makes more sense in my head.
It looks like, no matter what, you've decided Powder Miner is scum. There's no way to find a townie under that, is there?
Also, what made you decide on Powder Miner?
Post by: UltraValican on June 28, 2011, 06:20:44 pm
Do you think that is a good idea now considering that he can totalyy see your post.My general planning with this is, do to the responses to your questions it got me a bit suspicious of Max White. Since Powder Miner and Max White are my scumpicks then im going to see his response to Max White. If its something along the lines of "Blah blah blah he's not suspicious" then that shows signs of buddying. If its something along the lines of "YEAH HE IS SCUMMY" that might be something along the lines of a bus.Powder Miner read the last 15 pages, then tell me what you think of Max Whites responses to Vectors questions. DO EET.
Provide me with the motivation for this question, please.
This totally makes more sense in my head.
[It was a good idea but it is fairly moot if he knows what your thinking.
Bd, kilakan, UltraValican: The three of you promised posts. I see no posts. This is a problem.You seem to forget that powder miner didn’t post at all when you made this post care to explain why you were so soft on the most obvious lurker, Think0028
?
Post by: Max White on June 28, 2011, 06:24:05 pm
Or I'm wrong and your not involved at all, if so, never mind.
Now I know I said I would drop the Vector case, but fuck it, this is new stuff. Both Jim and Bd are not going to be happy... :P
I voted for Powder Miner because I think he's scum. Either that, or a really bad player--and in either case I'm going to press him until he becomesThis looks like a rerun of 'StarMafia: A New Hope'
So UltraValican's head in on the block, and in some time nothing new happens. Then Powder Miner turns up and Vector is all like 'BAM!' vote him, he is the scum! Final chance to draw attention off of UltraValican and he's scum partner is all over it. Vector even goes so far as to justify her vote either way, stating that Powder is so bad that lynching him into the ground will improve he's game sooner or later. Were lynching Powder for he's own sake, right Vector?
Oh unvote vectorYour vote is going to cause a mislynch? Your singular vote? This looks a lot more like UltraValican could not give a damn about a mislynch, just wanted the chance to imply that Vector was townie, and he was also a caring townie trying to not lynch anybody. In reality, he's vote wouldn't have caused any mislynch if vector was townie, so why worried about it beyond appearance sake?
no vote
Wouldn't want a mislynch now would we? :P
Read: Your looking for other peoples opinions of an argument against me? Why? Could it be because it is right and I don't want other people to know?Powder Miner read the last 15 pages, then tell me what you think of Max Whites responses to Vectors questions. DO EET.Provide me with the motivation for this question, please.
Post by: UltraValican on June 28, 2011, 06:43:04 pm
The mislych comment was ment to be ironic.
Post by: Max White on June 28, 2011, 06:45:50 pm
Post by: Vector on June 28, 2011, 06:46:30 pm
So UltraValican's head in on the block, and in some time nothing new happens. Then Powder Miner turns up and Vector is all like 'BAM!' vote him, he is the scum! Final chance to draw attention off of UltraValican and he's scum partner is all over it. Vector even goes so far as to justify her vote either way, stating that Powder is so bad that lynching him into the ground will improve he's game sooner or later. Were lynching Powder for he's own sake, right Vector?
Uhhhh... no. UltraValican has five votes on him. I don't think he's scum, and even if he is scum, adding a vote isn't going to add much pressure. I can give him information on how to play town better in hopes of him improving his presentation without additional pressure, because he has more than enough pressure. I'm almost certain he's going to be lynched without a chance to take a breather and learn how to play, but, well... that's how it goes.
I intend to bother Powder until either a. he has improved his playstyle or b. he is dead. Either or. He's just entered the game and some good, old-fashioned shin-kicking intimidation goes a long way. This has nothing to do with "lynching him is good for him," it's "I respect my skills as a pedagogue enough that I'm sure he'll clean up soon enough--if he's town."
I'm not lynching him. When I want someone lynched, you'll know it. Right now, he's being educated.
You need to learn that, aggression or not, I am not trying for a lynch every single time I rest my vote somewhere.
so why worried about it beyond appearance sake?
Because a vote on someone for no reason whatsoever is a vote that isn't scumhunting.
In case you don't remember, I am an IC--which means that I am currently telling a lot of people what to do in a way that I wouldn't normally in a Mafia game. In this case, UltraValican desperately needs to be scumhunting right now. So I'm telling him to either put some questions where his vote is or move it somewhere useful.
I wasn't expecting him to just unvote, given all my other advice, which is why I added:
Hohoho.
Now find someone and ask them a question, bucko.
Read: Your looking for other peoples opinions of an argument against me? Why? Could it be because it is right and I don't want other people to know?Powder Miner read the last 15 pages, then tell me what you think of Max Whites responses to Vectors questions. DO EET.Provide me with the motivation for this question, please.
. . .
Read: is he trying to kick up that fight again indirectly, or use Powder Miner to throw Max White under a bus? Why is that the first question he's asking of his scumpick? Does he have any evidence?
This doesn't look very good...
Max White, you're picking at straws and every time you bring in the same stupid arguments and suspicions. I explain to you how you're extrapolating data sets and twisting information. You go through the same bull-headed fight with me and don't pay any attention, because Vector Might Be Scum Oh My God Think of the Children.
You're wasting your time and energy, and as far as I can tell you aren't learning a blasted thing from it. Hell, you're wasting my time and energy, which just makes me into an even grumpier IC.
And I can answer that question to IronyOwl, at least partially: play a lot of games and pick the style that works best for you. There's no point in adopting a style poorly suited to your personality and limitations.
@Max White
The mislych comment was ment to be ironic.
You're online, but not asking any questions. Why?
Post by: Max White on June 28, 2011, 06:48:53 pm
Because Vector Might Be Scum Oh My God Think of the Children.This is totally going in my sigtext for the week.
Post by: UltraValican on June 28, 2011, 06:56:54 pm
@ MaxWhite, Vector was questioning a lurker who has just psoted for the first time, it seems pretty natural to question someone who hadn't posted in a while ,even more so when the man in question is trying to make an excuse to not do anything simply because 15 pages seem "too damn long"
Sounds like your OMGUS acusing Max White so thats why I have my FOS on you.
Post by: Vector on June 28, 2011, 06:59:26 pm
More questions are generally good, but you're doing a lot better for now. Keep up the good work.
Post by: Max White on June 28, 2011, 07:00:56 pm
@ MaxWhite, Vector was questioning a lurker who has just psoted for the first time, it seems pretty natural to question someone who hadn't posted in a while ,even more so when the man in question is trying to make an excuse to not do anything simply because 15 pages seem "too damn long"
Sounds like your OMGUS acusing Max White so thats why I have my FOS on you.
I'm not saying that Vector questioning is suspicions, I'm saying that instantly calling him scum with little foundation is suspicions. He hasn't shown up the entire game, so there is a chance some people were thinking of policy lynching him already, accuse him of being scum and you have the perfect scapegoat.
Post by: Vector on June 28, 2011, 07:07:09 pm
It looks like, no matter what, you've decided Powder Miner is scum. There's no way to find a townie under that, is there?
I voted for Powder Miner because I think he's scum. Either that, or a really bad player.
Ah, yes. I'm totally scapegoating him and trying to manipulate everyone into thinking he's scum.
Post by: Jim Groovester on June 28, 2011, 07:24:02 pm
IronyOwl: I see you there, on the sign up sheet. I suspect you were told to help the mafia in their scumchat, but aren't in the game, so not allowed to post here, thus why we have not seen you. This is a bit of a stretch, but let's imagine this is true and cross our fingers. Both Jim and Vector have been showing differing styles of play, so as a newer player, what style do you think I should try to adopt to most help the town and hide myself when required? If you could answer in your scumchat, I will read it after the game.
Or I'm wrong and your not involved at all, if so, never mind.
Mine.
It's really hard to fuck up with my style. It's bold, direct, aggressive, and transparent. It's specifically tailored to look as maximally town as possible. It's also devastatingly effective to all but the most skilled scum teams.
Although UltraValican does seem scummy, I think he's more of the confused noob who kinda gives up after awhile (Like me.). My two scum picks right now are Max White and Powder Miner. But first i'll start with Powder Miner.
Powder Miner read the last 15 pages, then tell me what you think of Max Whites responses to Vectors questions. DO EET.
Cozying up to the IC, I see.
My general planning with this is, do to the responses to your questions it got me a bit suspicious of Max White. Since Powder Miner and Max White are my scumpicks then im going to see his response to Max White. If its something along the lines of "Blah blah blah he's not suspicious" then that shows signs of buddying. If its something along the lines of "YEAH HE IS SCUMMY" that might be something along the lines of a bus.
This totally makes more sense in my head.
That's a pretty terrible plan, but I'll give you credit for trying.
What do you make of UltraValican and Max White? What's your opinion of them? Does anything about their play bother you? (If it does, you should ask them about it.)
Vector, if you're so busy voting people to pressure them, who do you actually suspect?
Think0028, if you thought0028 I wouldn't notice you over in the corner over there, sitting around, not doing anything, not speaking up, you're wrong. You could almost say, dead wrong.
Why are you being so quiet? How come you have nothing to add?
Post by: Vector on June 28, 2011, 07:32:50 pm
I'm information-plowing. Sorry.
But other than that:
Powder Miner
Think0028
Jim Groovester
I'm kind of busy trying to get the folks who I think are noobtown to stop pinging my radar, because if they learn how to scumhunt then I'll be benefited quite a bit. Hopefully I'll be able to stop doing so much pedagogical work after D1.
Post by: Max White on June 28, 2011, 07:34:25 pm
Does the day end today?
Post by: Darvi on June 28, 2011, 07:35:48 pm
Post by: Max White on June 28, 2011, 07:38:37 pm
Still need to figure out the conversion between Australian and American time from memory.
Post by: Think0028 on June 28, 2011, 07:39:53 pm
=Actually, Powder Miner had posted at that point. He said he was rereading the thread an hour before my post.Bd, kilakan, UltraValican: The three of you promised posts. I see no posts. This is a problem.You seem to forget that powder miner didn’t post at all when you made this post care to explain why you were so soft on the most obvious lurker, Think0028
?
Bd: Your second scum pick is Max White, right? Why? Any questions for him? Your 'question' for Powder is awfully leading: either Powder is scum buddying town or Powder is scum bussing someone else. Do you have more to say?
Powder Miner: Why so flippant when you finally posted? Where are your questions for Vector? Do you have any questions for UltraValican other than 'explain yourself'? If you're pressuring him 'without mercy', where is the rest of your assault on him? Why pressure vote someone who's already at majority?
Jim: I was writing a post at the same time you were. Yesterday I was busy with friends after 8:00 forum time, so I didn't see Powder Miner and today's posts til now.
Post by: Jim Groovester on June 28, 2011, 07:42:19 pm
But other than that:
Powder Miner
Think0028
Jim Groovester
Reasons?
Post by: Vector on June 28, 2011, 07:51:11 pm
Reasons?
Powder Miner - already discussed extensively.
Think - He's a strong player while he's here, but he's not often here and I haven't gotten a good read on him. That'll come soon enough.
You - Gut/process of elimination. I'm waiting on this for now because I don't have the energy to work on Fortress Groovester, and nothing has pinged me about you especially badly. As I said... just a weird feeling.
Basically, I have six mental categories.
A - Folks who are CTs. Me.
B - Folks who I've fought with enough to think they're town, and play okay. Kilakan, Max White.
C - People who play terribly but are probably town. BDthemag, UltraValican.
D - People who play terribly and are probably scum. PowderMiner.
E - People who I haven't fought with yet and aren't giving off an especially reassuring aura. Think0028, Jim Groovester.
F - ... People I forgot about until I started this list. FUCKING BREADBOCKS.
BREADBOCKS, GET YOUR ASS OUT HERE OR SO HELP ME GOD I WILL SET IT ON FUCKING FIRE.
Post by: Max White on June 28, 2011, 07:57:55 pm
Hmm... Well We have some time to pass, and UltraValican has a few votes on him already, mine isn't doing that much more for him. Might as well do something to amuse myself, and hey, might even find out something new.
Unvote
Breadbocks: Who is your second pick and why?
Don't worry sports fans, I'll be back onto Valican before long.
Post by: kilakan on June 28, 2011, 08:00:32 pm
Quote from: Vector
C - People who play terribly but are probably town. BDthemag, UltraValican.Why would you say that BD is town, so far he's avoiding every single thing I've said about him. Like reading a post explaining why what he does is scummy, is admitting it's scummy.
Post by: Vector on June 28, 2011, 08:09:11 pm
Why would you say that BD is town, so far he's avoiding every single thing I've said about him. Like reading a post explaining why what he does is scummy, is admitting it's scummy.
He did something scummy, I asked him why, he immediately gave me an explanation of the theory behind it. No jumping, no fussing around. The theory even made sense in a stupid and naive sort of a way.
He shouldn't be ignoring you, but right now... as I said, I'm getting newbie-rolled. The most I can really do is take a guess, hope, and know that there will be more information tomorrow. The heavy-duty lurkers or terrible town players or group of folks that I don't have any information about make up three times the number of scumbuckets I need. So... for now, I'm throwing my darts.
Post by: kilakan on June 28, 2011, 08:10:38 pm
Post by: Max White on June 28, 2011, 08:53:36 pm
Hope you do conditional replacements.
Unvote
Note to self: Bread or UltraValican.
Post by: Powder Miner on June 29, 2011, 12:11:24 am
Meanwhile, due to my absence, I haven't been able to RVS- nd have had to ue the iformation that was all used up in the past fifteen pages- And so I went by what I trawled off of what I read. But now, RV time.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UG9nzUZ_Dtk
It's a trap :)
Now off to read those pages.
Post by: Powder Miner on June 29, 2011, 12:18:36 am
Post by: breadbocks on June 29, 2011, 03:22:30 am
F - ... People I forgot about until I started this list. FUCKING BREADBOCKS.What? What do you want me to say? Do you have a question? Am I just supposed post every now and then "Hi. I'm still watching, waiting for UV to justify himself."?
BREADBOCKS, GET YOUR ASS OUT HERE OR SO HELP ME GOD I WILL SET IT ON FUCKING FIRE.
That's right, Breadbocks is in this game, isn't he? Fucking pro lurker.My second pick? It's kinda early for scumteam assembly, but I'd say Vector, if only for the strange amounts of (is buddying the right term?) what seems to me to be teaming up with him. Still not near enough to warrant a FoS, never mind a vote.
Hmm... Well We have some time to pass, and UltraValican has a few votes on him already, mine isn't doing that much more for him. Might as well do something to amuse myself, and hey, might even find out something new.
Unvote
Breadbocks: Who is your second pick and why?
Post by: Jim Groovester on June 29, 2011, 05:11:37 am
What? What do you want me to say? Do you have a question? Am I just supposed post every now and then "Hi. I'm still watching, waiting for UV to justify himself."?
Good thing you went out of your way to try and prod him into answering your questions, instead of doing nothing for a large span of time. Because doing nothing is never an advisable strategy.
Post by: Darvi on June 29, 2011, 08:24:39 am
Barring extension, the day ends in 12 hours and 30 minutes (give or take a few).
Post by: Max White on June 29, 2011, 08:28:07 am
Maybe it's because I got bored and skipped the last few pages (the ones I came in at), but I don't really see much suspicious things in Max's answers. And now of course according to your TRAP! I'm a scum for buddying! Yeah, no. And because I forgot to actually RV, Unvote UltraValican, Max White Who would you pick Night 1 as mafia, to kill?Well, under normal conditions, Jim would be a dead man, because Jim must always be night killed, or pulled into the cult, or assassinated by something, or anything. That's just Jim.
But he is an IC in a learning game. We are here to learn from him, so we should sort of not kill him, even if we can. With that in mind, Bread is a good lurker, so nobody will notice if he is killed. :)
My second pick? It's kinda early for scumteam assembly, but I'd say Vector, if only for the strange amounts of (is buddying the right term?) what seems to me to be teaming up with him. Still not near enough to warrant a FoS, never mind a vote.But then your greatest piece of evidence depends on UltraValican being scum. If he turned out to be a townie, how would your answer change?
Memo to self and all of you guys:Thank ye kindly, good sir.
Barring extension, the day ends in 12 hours and 30 minutes (give or take a few).
Post by: Max White on June 29, 2011, 08:34:31 am
Vote UltraValican.
Post by: Darvi on June 29, 2011, 08:54:01 am
But he is an IC in a learning game. We are here to learn from him, so we should sort of not kill him, even if we can.You do know that a dead IC is still an IC right?
Post by: Max White on June 29, 2011, 08:58:29 am
Still, Jim thinks he is good, so I'm taking notes of the wild Groovester in it's natural environment, hoping that modern science can extract useful genes to splice me into a better player. Best done while he is still fresh and kicking.
Post by: Powder Miner on June 29, 2011, 10:16:07 am
Post by: Max White on June 29, 2011, 03:06:38 pm
Max White If you were scum how would you determine who to kill?Inactive players would be my target of choice. They are less of a force on the game, so cause smaller waves if they are killed.
As scum, your focus should be players who do not impact gameplay much at all. Anything else you risk people somehow linking it back to you, WIFOM be dammed.
Post by: Vector on June 29, 2011, 03:23:18 pm
And if you suspect me, you can damned well start asking me questions instead of disappearing.
Hmmm, Max White why would you only kill people that would be expected or not noticed? Must just be play style... Oh well, I've already got my answer, so Unvote Max White.
Got a next step on that, or are you just checking "RVS" off your list?
As scum, your focus should be players who do not impact gameplay much at all. Anything else you risk people somehow linking it back to you, WIFOM be dammed.
Hurm. We have completely opposite points of view on the nightkill, then.
Post by: breadbocks on June 29, 2011, 03:25:04 pm
Already answered that one.Max, that's just not true. As someone with quite a bit of scum experience, you want to kill the person who's the biggest asset to the town. Nightkills are the worst evidence, period.Max White If you were scum how would you determine who to kill?Inactive players would be my target of choice. They are less of a force on the game, so cause smaller waves if they are killed.
As scum, your focus should be players who do not impact gameplay much at all. Anything else you risk people somehow linking it back to you, WIFOM be dammed.
Vector, what are your thoughts on PM?
Post by: Vector on June 29, 2011, 03:30:38 pm
Vector, what are your thoughts on PM?
They've already been established, multiple times, within the last five pages. Go take a look.
Post by: Darvi on June 29, 2011, 07:23:35 pm
If tolyk doesn't show up, I'll post the end of day post and expect all of you not to post afterwards.
Post by: breadbocks on June 29, 2011, 07:28:07 pm
Hurp derp mistyped. I was reading what you were saying about PM when I was typing the post. I meant to say Think0028. >.>Vector, what are your thoughts on PM?
They've already been established, multiple times, within the last five pages. Go take a look.
Post by: Jim Groovester on June 29, 2011, 07:28:24 pm
Post by: Darvi on June 29, 2011, 07:35:08 pm
UltraValican - 4 - kilakan, breadbocks, Max White, Jim Groovester
Powder Miner - 3 - Think0028, Vector, bdthemag
Think0028 - 1 - UltraValican
No vote: Powder Miner
3 votes to extend, 5 to shorten, no hammer!
One vote for extension!
Post by: UltraValican on June 29, 2011, 07:39:16 pm
Post by: Darvi on June 29, 2011, 08:57:08 pm
I'll start writing up the post, so if you have anything to say, DO IT NOW.
If anybody posts after my next post, they'll get modkilled with extreme prejudice.
Post by: Darvi on June 29, 2011, 09:12:18 pm
After an entire day of heated (except not literally, since they all live in a refridgerator. duh) discussion, the mint citizens came to a conclusion.
You! they told UltraValican.
Why are you going for a lynch this early?
Are you really trying to find the killers?
Or are you one yourself?
No! He replies.
It's my job to find and persecute criminals!
We don't believe you! Jim said.
If it really was your job then you'd do a better job of it than that!
He grabs a spoon and walks toward the doomed scoop.
Noooo!
Then he stikes. And strikes. And strikes.
After several minutes of green juice splattering around it became obvious that the poor guy was mint after all.
Oh look what he was carrying, bdthemag says.
He holds up a police badge.
So he was an investigator after all.
WHO TOOK MY WALLET? Vector screams.
With the police mintspector dead, the criminals of Mint City have begun to steal and vandalize without repercussions.
Nice job breaking it heroes.
The mint citizens are tired, and go to rest to gather energy for the next day.
UltraValican was Mintspector Clouseau, Town Cop.You! they told UltraValican.
Why are you going for a lynch this early?
Are you really trying to find the killers?
Or are you one yourself?
No! He replies.
It's my job to find and persecute criminals!
We don't believe you! Jim said.
If it really was your job then you'd do a better job of it than that!
He grabs a spoon and walks toward the doomed scoop.
Noooo!
Then he stikes. And strikes. And strikes.
After several minutes of green juice splattering around it became obvious that the poor guy was mint after all.
Oh look what he was carrying, bdthemag says.
He holds up a police badge.
So he was an investigator after all.
WHO TOOK MY WALLET? Vector screams.
With the police mintspector dead, the criminals of Mint City have begun to steal and vandalize without repercussions.
Nice job breaking it heroes.
The mint citizens are tired, and go to rest to gather energy for the next day.
Scum and power roles, send in your actions now!
Post by: TolyK on June 29, 2011, 11:03:37 pm
Also: ...
Post by: Darvi on June 30, 2011, 03:43:39 pm
At the dawn of a new day, the mint citizens reassembled at the town square.
The corpses have been carried away too, which is good because nobody wants to debate with the smell of rotten milk around.
Wait. Somebody's missing.
Even though everybody has been waiting, Jim Groovester has yet to appear.
As they investigated his appartment, they found Jim.
He was, to make it short, a bloody(minty?) mess.
I won't go into any more detail as I don't want you to throw over in nausea.
The seven mint citizens quickly left the flat and headed back to the town square.
With one of their experienced scoops gone, they feel the need to find the vanilla ice cream more than ever before.
And even though he's dead, they still feel that Jim is still with them, in spirit, supporting them.
The corpses have been carried away too, which is good because nobody wants to debate with the smell of rotten milk around.
Wait. Somebody's missing.
Even though everybody has been waiting, Jim Groovester has yet to appear.
As they investigated his appartment, they found Jim.
He was, to make it short, a bloody(minty?) mess.
I won't go into any more detail as I don't want you to throw over in nausea.
The seven mint citizens quickly left the flat and headed back to the town square.
With one of their experienced scoops gone, they feel the need to find the vanilla ice cream more than ever before.
And even though he's dead, they still feel that Jim is still with them, in spirit, supporting them.
Jim Groovester got killed! He was a Mint Citizen!
Day ends on Monday 10PM GMT, because I don't want to stay up until 4AM again :/
Whiteboard
Not voting: Max White, Powder Miner, Think0028, kilakan, breadbocks, bdthemag, Vector
2 to extend, 4 to shorten, no hammer!
Post by: Jim Groovester on June 30, 2011, 03:47:16 pm
As said before, I'll still be around to offer teaching tips.
Post by: Vector on June 30, 2011, 03:48:42 pm
Also, I fucking told you. About UltraValican, I mean. I didn't have a read on Groovester.
Anyway, without further ado...
I want suspect lists and reasonings from everyone, with questions and comments to folks as necessary.
I'm saying that as both your IC and a player, by the way. At this part of the game, given the size of the bandwagon on UltraValican, you guys are going to have to really step up your analyses.
Especially PowderMiner and Breadbocks.
Also:
Hurp derp mistyped. I was reading what you were saying about PM when I was typing the post. I meant to say Think0028. >.>
I already gave you my thoughts on him, but now that we've hit D2 and gotten our corpses, my worries about him as a sideliner have somewhat increased.
I'll be doing my best to get a read on him today.
Business as usual.
As said before, I'll still be around to offer teaching tips.
... Well, now I feel slightly worse about my opening remarks. Damn you, Groovester, for being so chill. Damn you.
Post by: Darvi on June 30, 2011, 03:51:18 pm
She told you dawgs. 8^y
Post by: Jim Groovester on June 30, 2011, 03:54:30 pm
... Well, now I feel slightly worse about my opening remarks. Damn you, Groovester, for being so chill. Damn you.
You can't scare them with hellfire all the time.
In fact, you probably shouldn't. Maybe once in a while, to really make a point that people aren't getting. Otherwise, calm the fuck down.
Post by: Vector on June 30, 2011, 03:58:06 pm
You can't scare them with hellfire all the time.
In fact, you probably shouldn't. Maybe once in a while, to really make a point that people aren't getting. Otherwise, calm the fuck down.
You're probably right about this. High-energy pedagogy works very well when directed at me, but I need to learn to be more considerate of others.
Okay, I will try. Jim Groovester, will you help IC my ICing? I don't want to make this a disaster because I ended up turning on too much energy for anyone to deal with. So, just... tell me to cool it once in a while, when I need it, okay? Please?
I'll do my best all the same, though.
I'm very sorry, everyone. Let's have a good game together =)
Post by: Jim Groovester on June 30, 2011, 04:00:24 pm
Post by: Darvi on June 30, 2011, 04:00:37 pm
Jim Groovester, will you help IC my ICing?Yo dawg, I heard you like mafia...
Post by: Vector on June 30, 2011, 04:02:15 pm
Only if you stop acting so guilty from a little corrective advice.
I'm acting guilty because you're right, and this is a problem I tend to have pretty much... always. I get more excited than other people can stand, and then I end up needing to do stuff myself.
So, I'm trying to correct it here, a place where I think about my social interactions with others, in hopes of fixing it in the outside world.
And yeah, I'll do that, too. Thank you.
Post by: lordnincompoop on June 30, 2011, 04:08:24 pm
GOOD MORNING ASSHOLES ARE YOU HAVING A GOOD DAY?
Honestly, I just found this to be funny, and the following remarks to be, well, authoritative.
Post by: Vector on June 30, 2011, 04:19:52 pm
I'm just dropping in to say that this game has been very educational so far. Thank you.GOOD MORNING ASSHOLES ARE YOU HAVING A GOOD DAY?
Honestly, I just found this to be funny, and the following remarks to be, well, authoritative.
Haha, okay. I'll keep your opinion in mind, too.
I'm glad that you've found the game educational, by the way. Hopefully it will continue to be so =)
Post by: Max White on June 30, 2011, 05:01:55 pm
Vector: You scummy troll, well clearly your plan was to buddy a townie so that we mislynch them without drawing suspicion to yourself. :P No, I'm joking of coarse. Your clear with me for now.
UltraValican: If your reading this, DAMN IT MAN! You could have saved yourself by voting for Powder and making a tie, giving you a read for the night. Even if you were lynched the next day, you would have had some show and tell for us.
Scum: You may sit back and laugh, but you just lost any ambiguity about cop claims, so things are going to get a little more clean cut with any luck. So fuck you.
Breadbocks: Your first vote onto UltraValican was a RVS vote, and you never pulled it off, or bought new evidence into light. Can you explain your beliefs.
You also placed this vote as soon as Ultra and Kilakan started into their argument, thus bandwagoning hid as a RVS. Just saying.
*Yawn* I'll go get the evidence stack after breakfast and such. Just woke up after all.
Post by: Jim Groovester on June 30, 2011, 05:10:38 pm
UltraValican: If your reading this, DAMN IT MAN! You could have saved yourself by voting for Powder and making a tie, giving you a read for the night. Even if you were lynched the next day, you would have had some show and tell for us.
No, that would've been a bad idea. It would've infuriated me to no end, and I wouldn't have held back about it.
If you're town, the only way you can save yourself from the lynch is by scumhunting well in advance of it. Gaming votes to save yourself is scummy fucking bullshit and you should never, ever, ever do that.
Lynches are valuable town resources. They're the primary way the town investigates its suspicions, so it's absolutely critical that the town make each and every one count, by lynching the top suspects with excellent arguments. Even if it's a mislynch, it narrows down the field and forces the town to reevaluate their suspicions, helping them get closer and closer to scum.
It's true that UltraValican could have saved himself, but he would've screwed over the town by doing that.
Post by: Darvi on June 30, 2011, 05:49:58 pm
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Dead: Jim Groovester, Town: Posts: [0] (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=87209.msg2371223#msg2371223)[1] (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=87209.msg2371230#msg2371230)[2] (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=87209.msg2373597#msg2373597)[3] (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=87209.msg2373624#msg2373624)[4] (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=87209.msg2377329#msg2377329)[5] (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=87209.msg2381646#msg2381646)[6] (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=87209.msg2384931#msg2384931)[7] (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=87209.msg2384945#msg2384945)[8] (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=87209.msg2385070#msg2385070)[9] (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=87209.msg2385252#msg2385252)[10] (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=87209.msg2385322#msg2385322)[11] (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=87209.msg2385436#msg2385436)[12] (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=87209.msg2385726#msg2385726)[13] (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=87209.msg2387669#msg2387669)[14] (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=87209.msg2388030#msg2388030)[15] (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=87209.msg2388159#msg2388159)[16] (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=87209.msg2388201#msg2388201)[17] (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=87209.msg2388215#msg2388215)[18] (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=87209.msg2388306#msg2388306)[19] (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=87209.msg2388394#msg2388394)[20] (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=87209.msg2388959#msg2388959)[21] (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=87209.msg2388989#msg2388989)[22] (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=87209.msg2389869#msg2389869)[23] (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=87209.msg2393205#msg2393205)[24] (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=87209.msg2393503#msg2393503)[25] (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=87209.msg2396489#msg2396489)[26] (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=87209.msg2396530#msg2396530)[27] (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=87209.msg2397530#msg2397530)[28] (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=87209.msg2399184#msg2399184)[29] (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=87209.msg2401419#msg2401419)[30] (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=87209.msg2401450#msg2401450)[31] (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=87209.msg2401481#msg2401481)[32] (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=87209.msg2401713#msg2401713)
Dead: UltraValican, Cop: Posts: [0] (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=87209.msg2379276#msg2379276)[1] (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=87209.msg2384750#msg2384750)[2] (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=87209.msg2384968#msg2384968)[3] (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=87209.msg2385010#msg2385010)[4] (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=87209.msg2385105#msg2385105)[5] (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=87209.msg2385345#msg2385345)[6] (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=87209.msg2386685#msg2386685)[7] (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=87209.msg2386806#msg2386806)[8] (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=87209.msg2386910#msg2386910)[9] (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=87209.msg2388089#msg2388089)[10] (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=87209.msg2388130#msg2388130)[11] (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=87209.msg2388180#msg2388180)[12] (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=87209.msg2388206#msg2388206)[13] (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=87209.msg2388284#msg2388284)[14] (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=87209.msg2388356#msg2388356)[15] (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=87209.msg2388400#msg2388400)[16] (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=87209.msg2388478#msg2388478)[17] (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=87209.msg2388513#msg2388513)[18] (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=87209.msg2388543#msg2388543)[19] (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=87209.msg2388560#msg2388560)[20] (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=87209.msg2388579#msg2388579)[21] (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=87209.msg2389355#msg2389355)[22] (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=87209.msg2389381#msg2389381)[23] (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=87209.msg2389585#msg2389585)[24] (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=87209.msg2389885#msg2389885)[25] (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=87209.msg2390114#msg2390114)[26] (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=87209.msg2390144#msg2390144)[27] (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=87209.msg2390149#msg2390149)[28] (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=87209.msg2393467#msg2393467)[29] (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=87209.msg2394836#msg2394836)[30] (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=87209.msg2395871#msg2395871)[31] (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=87209.msg2396350#msg2396350)[32] (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=87209.msg2396395#msg2396395)[33] (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=87209.msg2396434#msg2396434)[34] (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=87209.msg2399206#msg2399206)
Post by: Vector on June 30, 2011, 05:52:35 pm
Post by: Darvi on June 30, 2011, 05:53:26 pm
Post by: Vector on June 30, 2011, 05:56:59 pm
Damn new-fangled technology!
On the other hand, I guess this is a faster way of getting all of a player's posts. It's also kind of nice that I don't have the most posts in the game, for once. Hmm ;3
Post by: Max White on June 30, 2011, 06:07:20 pm
Get used to it, so far in every game I have played I've had the most posts.
Post by: Vector on June 30, 2011, 06:09:02 pm
I like to be active, work out a little, really grind those levels up until I'm useful. :P
Get used to it, so far in every game I have played I've had the most posts.
When you start posting useful information in all of that logorrhea, I'll consider feeling a midge insecure.
Post by: Jim Groovester on June 30, 2011, 06:10:33 pm
Post by: breadbocks on June 30, 2011, 06:18:52 pm
Now, before I start on my list, where's yours? What, you think you're going to get away with bullshitting because you're the one who
Max, I don't know what you're smoking, but in no way was my vote on Valican RVS. I spotted something off, and I pressed. And he crumpled. He then went on to (falsely) admit to being scum. Are you familiar with the BBB Gambit? You're throwing shit and missing the fan by a mile.
Now for that list!
- Max White: A fair bit suspicious. He seems to be trying his damnest to twist words and has been awfully inane with everything he's done so far. He gets my vote because he's the most of a lead.
- Powder Miner: There's too little there for me to judge from. Def needs to post more.
- Think0028: I'm thinking he could be scum. Too little posting, too little content to the posts.
- Kilakan: It seems like he's trying to scumhunt, and is just being ineffective.
- bdthemag: Lurky-lurk-lurk.
- Vector: Something odd strikes me about her posts. I can't place why, and I'm not sure if it's a scum oddity, so no vote.
My turn.
Max, when will you start being useful to the town? So far you've been doing just about anything to try and start a vote on somebody.
Bdthemag, are you planning on participating? What do you think about policy lynching lurkers?
Post by: Vector on June 30, 2011, 06:31:05 pm
Tell you what Vector, say "I told you so" all you want. It's not going to make Valican or Jim come back from the dead.
Now, before I start on my list, where's yours? What, you think you're going to get away with bullshitting because you're the one whopointed the fingerdemanded the lists? Haha, nope. Also, you haven't given me your thoughts on Think. You've said you thought his slightly suspicious, and a little bit about why, but I'm not biting you "already gave" me your thoughts on him.
It's not going to make Valican come back from the dead, no, but hopefully it'll stop people from their myopic tunneling and make them think a little bit more.
I gave you everything I have on Think. I have almost nothing on him. Pressing me will not make me give you information I don't have.
I think I'm going to get away with not giving a list because I gave a list right before the day ended, and pretty much no one posted after that. But, because you seem to need it restated for you:
Powder Miner (starting to want to lynch)
Think0028 (worries me)
Breadbocks (needs to get over lurking)
BDthemag (also needs to get over lurking, and possibly learn how to play)
Right now, I'm largely concerned with getting these folks to post. Once they've posted, I'll have more to work with. At the moment, however, I am having a very hard time.
Are you familiar with the BBB Gambit?
There are no jesters in this game.
The fact that Valican crumpled like that should have been a sign to you that he didn't have two other people backing him up psychologically, and didn't value his life much. Hopefully you'll learn from this experience.
Post by: Max White on June 30, 2011, 06:33:47 pm
Max, when will you start being useful to the town? So far you've been doing just about anything to try and start a vote on somebody.
That is a bit of a loaded question isn't it breadbocks? You might as well ask me when I'm going to stop drowning kittens. Had Ultra been scum, you would instead be saying I was very useful to the town, so what, you expect me to know for sure who is scum and who is town? Sorry, but not everybody can do that.
As for this ' just about anything to try and start a vote on somebody', I can't respond to that, because I'm not sure what you mean. Do you have posts I can address or something.
Your questions were very vague and open.
Post by: Think0028 on June 30, 2011, 07:08:45 pm
Suspicion 2: breadbocks, initially for massive amounts of lurking. Why didn't you post at all over the weekend? If you were observing as you said you where, what were your opinions of what was going on?
I don't have a very clear read on Max (he's absolutely flooding the thread with unhelpful posts, and rarely clear about what he's thinking) and Vector (she's big and mean and scary, but big and mean and scary != scum). I'm feeling fairly safe on kilakan and Bd at the moment.
Post by: TolyK on July 01, 2011, 01:11:05 am
And yeah, Jim, please use IC Voice to remind folks you're an IC ghost now.
;)
(mostly JK)
Post by: Think0028 on July 01, 2011, 01:14:57 am
Post by: Max White on July 01, 2011, 01:17:32 am
Thaaaaaat could get irritating REALLY fast. I'd like to request we all just realize that Jim is dead and that he does not do that.Yes yes, carefully noted.
So Think, what do you think about the choice of nightkill?
Post by: Jim Groovester on July 01, 2011, 01:24:47 am
And yeah, Jim, please use IC Voice to remind folks you're an IC ghost now.
No, that's silly.
I already made it clear that despite being dead I'll keep on giving IC advice.
Post by: Max White on July 01, 2011, 01:26:03 am
Post by: TolyK on July 01, 2011, 01:30:14 am
TolyK: Was Ultra a cop or a doctor? Your lynch report says cop, but your front page says doctor.Whoops.
You are mint city's top investigator, MINTSPECTOR CLOUSEAU.Updated OP.
Every night, you can inspect one player and find out their alignment.
You win if both scoops of Vanilla die.
Post by: Think0028 on July 01, 2011, 11:46:52 am
Post by: Darvi on July 01, 2011, 11:51:07 am
Post by: breadbocks on July 01, 2011, 03:36:05 pm
Suspicion 2: breadbocks, initially for massive amounts of lurking. Why didn't you post at all over the weekend? If you were observing as you said you where, what were your opinions of what was going on?I already said why I didn't post on the weekend. I was waiting for something worth saying something about, either through UV doing enough to convince me of his innocence, which would be nigh on impossible, or someone else seemed scummier. Neither of those happened. As far as I could tell, the larger portions of what happened was Vector telling him "You're being stupid. Try to prove your innocence." and UV flailing around, and then towards the end, people grilling PM about not being here.
Max, not good enough. First off, I'm not assuming you have precognitive powers, and thus wouldn't be able to say when by my standards you started being useful. It's called a rhetorical question. As for you not understanding my second question, bullshit. I made it clear that from my point of view you were twisting words till they snapped, and outright lying. You would like an example? I don't even need to go back that far.
Breadbocks: Your first vote onto UltraValican was a RVS vote, and you never pulled it off, or bought new evidence into light. Can you explain your beliefs.In fact, when I voted UV, I was clear as daylight it was an RVS. You've said numerous other things that are clearly lies, and each one hurts your credibility.
You also placed this vote as soon as Ultra and Kilakan started into their argument, thus bandwagoning hid as a RVS. Just saying.
Post by: Max White on July 01, 2011, 03:49:02 pm
Maybe your seeing something in the questions that isn't there, because you are reading it from scum eyes?
Post by: Powder Miner on July 01, 2011, 05:35:44 pm
Also, Jim got nightkilled. Why in the world am I not surprised?
Post by: Vector on July 01, 2011, 06:46:07 pm
If I really wanted ihm lynched, I would have continued to vote for him until the end od the day, which, as you'll note, I did not.
Also, Jim got nightkilled. Why in the world am I not surprised?
a. Ah, yes, you didn't want him lynched... of course. I understand, honey.
Who the fuck did you want lynched? No one? Why didn't you question anyone, then?
b. Commenting on the nightkill.
Common scumtell.
Hang.
Post by: breadbocks on July 01, 2011, 08:55:40 pm
Was there a question in all that? Or was it just your reaction to somebody showing some interest in you? I said you RVS voted UV, you did, I said you never pulled it off, you didn't. I didn't imply anything from it, but rather asked for your beliefs, giving you a chance to put forward evidence, and you jump like I set your pants on fire, and still have not answered it at all.Sigh. LTR doesn't begin to cover this. A vote made during RVS does not equal a RV. A random vote, oddly enough is made randomly, as in, arbitrarily and with no reason. As I clearly provided a reason, what you said is rendered a lie. Only scum and doctors/cops have reason to lie, and I doubt you are a doctor.
Maybe your seeing something in the questions that isn't there, because you are reading it from scum eyes?
If I really wanted ihm lynched, I would have continued to vote for him until the end od the day, which, as you'll note, I did not.That is an incredibly scummy thing to say. NK is one of THE scummiest things to discuss and use as evidence. But you want to talk nk? Fine. It proves Vector is innocent. ICs in BM are puppet masters, full tilt. By killing them, all you do is take away one of the votes they control. That means there at 5 people left, 2 of which are scum. I now thing Max and you are both scum.
Also, Jim got nightkilled. Why in the world am I not surprised?
Post by: Vector on July 01, 2011, 08:56:43 pm
But you want to talk nk? Fine. It proves Vector is innocent.
Buh?
Post by: breadbocks on July 01, 2011, 09:01:56 pm
Like I said. BM ICs are puppet masters. You would know that killing Jim would do nothing to stop his effect on the flow of the game. You are aggressive enough to not let a noob scum partner go through with it. Thinking any further about it is WIFOM.But you want to talk nk? Fine. It proves Vector is innocent.
Buh?
Post by: Vector on July 01, 2011, 09:08:03 pm
Like I said. BM ICs are puppet masters. You would know that killing Jim would do nothing to stop his effect on the flow of the game. You are aggressive enough to not let a noob scum partner go through with it. Thinking any further about it is WIFOM.
Oh my god ::)
No. Compare amount and content of Jim's posts from before, compared to know. Rethink your hypothesis and don't use this shitty reasoning.
... Also, I'm not going to be able to post much for the next couple of days, because I'm having... issues. I'll just call it that and say I'll do my best, but things are being troublesome.
Post by: Max White on July 01, 2011, 09:09:00 pm
Sigh. LTR doesn't begin to cover this. A vote made during RVS does not equal a RV. A random vote, oddly enough is made randomly, as in, arbitrarily and with no reason. As I clearly provided a reason, what you said is rendered a lie. Only scum and doctors/cops have reason to lie, and I doubt you are a doctor.
Breadbocks: You are still blatantly refusing to answer the question. I will ask you again, on day one, what reasons did you have for suspecting Ultra past the first time you voted for him. What did he do beyond that to make you even more suspicions?
Your doing everything you can to avoid the question, a very scummy thing to do. Explain your thought process.
Post by: Jim Groovester on July 01, 2011, 09:13:00 pm
But you want to talk nk? Fine. It proves Vector is innocent.
What, no it doesn't.
Guess who the biggest threat to a scum IC is. Hint: It's not any of the nubfaces.
When I tell new players that they can't draw any conclusions from the nightkill, I really mean you can't draw any conclusions from the nightkill. None. Zip. Nada. Zilch.
And what are you doing here? Drawing conclusions from the nightkill.
Like I said. BM ICs are puppet masters. You would know that killing Jim would do nothing to stop his effect on the flow of the game. You are aggressive enough to not let a noob scum partner go through with it. Thinking any further about it is WIFOM.
If only. I can't attack people or tell you who to suspect. All I can do is correct you when you go wrong. Such are the limitations of being a dead IC.
Post by: Think0028 on July 01, 2011, 11:27:11 pm
Powder Miner: Your scumhunting to date has been abysmal. Why haven't you fielded more questions to your suspicions? Why don't you have suspicions? Who did you actually suspect during the last day? How did you not see the votes piling on UltraValican? You said yourself you saw he was the most discussed player.
Max: Nightkill is WIFOM and I'm not touching it with a 10 foot pole.
Post by: Darvi on July 02, 2011, 07:15:08 am
That was their first prod.
Post by: breadbocks on July 02, 2011, 07:39:48 am
breadbocks: You're contradicting yourself. First you say your vote wasn't bandwagoning because it was RVS, which would only make sense if it was truly random. Then you say it obviously wasn't random. What's the matter? Can't keep your story straight? Why the NK WIFOM?Actually, I didn't say it wasn't bandwagoning because it was RVS. Prove to me there's some ghost running my accout that I don't know about.
As for why the NK WIFOM, it was purely me expressing my thoughts about the NK.
Post by: Think0028 on July 02, 2011, 01:13:06 pm
Breadbocks: Your first vote onto UltraValican was a RVS vote, and you never pulled it off, or bought new evidence into light. Can you explain your beliefs.In fact, when I voted UV, I was clear as daylight it was an RVS. You've said numerous other things that are clearly lies, and each one hurts your credibility.
You also placed this vote as soon as Ultra and Kilakan started into their argument, thus bandwagoning hid as a RVS. Just saying.
Right here. Max White says that you were bandwagoning but hiding your vote as an RVS. Your only defense is that you were 'clear as daylight it was an RVS', which:
1) Doesn't actually mean Max is wrong, as his whole point is you were making it look like RVS.
2) Is probably the worst out of multiple plausible arguments you could have made.
3) Says you weren't bandwagoning because it was RVS.
And you evaded my second question entirely. Why did you decide to express your thoughts about the NK? You had the choice to call it out as WIFOM and ignore it. Why not?
Post by: breadbocks on July 02, 2011, 01:20:59 pm
And now me not reading over my post has cause no end of confusion twice now. :-\
As for expressing my thoughts about NK, honestly, it was vocal thinking. I put my thoughts down in text and then decided to keep it there for the actual post. I stand by what I said.
Post by: kilakan on July 02, 2011, 02:29:14 pm
My Thoughts to date:
Vector-While I was having suspicions before night one about her, they have evaporated a bit. First of all I seriously doubt that Jim would have been a target for her the first night. Secondly she did try and deter the lynching of UltraValican, something I doubt a scum would put any effort into doing if they knew he was town.
BDtheMag-So far he's avoided replying to other peoples comments and only actually shown that he notices someone talking about him if you ask him a direct question. Jim Showed some interest in him the first day, but not enough to warrant suspicions about BD if Jim was killed, making me think that he took the opportunity to get rid of a major scum-hunter when everyone was still overlooking him. He has done minimalist activity (something I myself admit to being guilty of the last few days) and his answers seem to constitute not actually saying anything, just enough to remove suspicion. He reeks of scummyness to me through the fact that he avoids confrontation, stays out of the way, and only scum hunts, when the person he's asking questions of is already tied up with someone more aggressive then himself.
So get the hell in here and actually reply to what others say about you, give a reason for what you've done and stop hiding on the edges of inactivity.
Post by: Max White on July 02, 2011, 05:14:02 pm
HURRR TYPOS I MISTYPED WASN'T.Protip: If you don't lie, you don't have to remember what you say, and end up confusing yourself less.
And now me not reading over my post has cause no end of confusion twice now. :-\
As for expressing my thoughts about NK, honestly, it was vocal thinking. I put my thoughts down in text and then decided to keep it there for the actual post. I stand by what I said.
Post by: Darvi on July 02, 2011, 05:24:03 pm
Powder Miner -2- Vector, Think 0028
Max White -1- Breadbocks
Breadbocks -1- Max White
bdthemag -1- kilakan
2 to extend, 4 to shorten, no hammer
Post by: Powder Miner on July 02, 2011, 06:10:40 pm
I came fifteen pages into the game. I had figured that if I went by what I saw on the last fifteen pages, It'd be called bandwagoning which it has. So I randomvoted, and it's not my fault if you're all stupid enough to be manipulated by the scum. (And when I die, I am immediately telling my two deadman companions who it is,and I will gloat over it afterwards. I. Will. Gloat.
Post by: Vector on July 02, 2011, 06:15:38 pm
The fact remains that you haven't answered my questions. I don't see any reason to gloat over being not only a terrible player, but also uncooperative.
Oh, and PowderMiner... you haven't voted.
Assuming that the town is lynching you, how the fuck do you know who the scumteam is?
Post by: Jim Groovester on July 02, 2011, 08:40:14 pm
Welp, the problems I metioned I would have caught up to me yesterday, and I've been completely swamped, anyways the weekend looks clear so far so all should be good from now on for my attendance. Now to this predicament.
My Thoughts to date:
Vector-While I was having suspicions before night one about her, they have evaporated a bit. First of all I seriously doubt that Jim would have been a target for her the first night. Secondly she did try and deter the lynching of UltraValican, something I doubt a scum would put any effort into doing if they knew he was town.
BDtheMag-So far he's avoided replying to other peoples comments and only actually shown that he notices someone talking about him if you ask him a direct question. Jim Showed some interest in him the first day, but not enough to warrant suspicions about BD if Jim was killed, making me think that he took the opportunity to get rid of a major scum-hunter when everyone was still overlooking him. He has done minimalist activity (something I myself admit to being guilty of the last few days) and his answers seem to constitute not actually saying anything, just enough to remove suspicion. He reeks of scummyness to me through the fact that he avoids confrontation, stays out of the way, and only scum hunts, when the person he's asking questions of is already tied up with someone more aggressive then himself.
So get the hell in here and actually reply to what others say about you, give a reason for what you've done and stop hiding on the edges of inactivity.
Did you miss my memo about drawing conclusions from the nightkill?
You can't draw any, dammit!
And then lookit here, where you're drawing conclusions from the nightkill and using it to guide your scumhunting. That's two things you should never ever ever ever ever do.
It's poor hunting, both ways. You'll cause so many mislynches with this thinking that you should take my word for it that it's something you should never ever ever ever ever do.
I may be dead, but goddamn, you still have to listen to me.
es, I really was using the scumhunting as argument, espiecially how with I totally said things about people because of it. I'm saying this ebcause Jim always gets killed, in his own words. But if you really want to lynch me, go ahead, and I'll laugh at your stupidity afterwards. I even rolled a die to get UltraValican as my RV target. Because that's what it was, an RV.
I came fifteen pages into the game. I had figured that if I went by what I saw on the last fifteen pages, It'd be called bandwagoning which it has. So I randomvoted, and it's not my fault if you're all stupid enough to be manipulated by the scum. (And when I die, I am immediately telling my two deadman companions who it is,and I will gloat over it afterwards. I. Will. Gloat.
This is something really stupid to be gloat about.
If you get lynched it will be for good reasons, and it's not going to be anybody's fault except your own. I.E., you are giving people reason to suspect you. Let me repeat that.
You are giving people reason to suspect you.
Gloating about how you're town when people are heavily suspecting you is a waste of time. How does it help you find scum? It doesn't. And don't you remember everything I said in my opening post for this game? Everything you do should help you find scum.
So instead of being dumb and gloating about something dumb, how about you try to be productive and hunt for scum instead. You've been here before; you can make a decent effort to attack somebody when you want to. I want to see some of that effort right now to present a compelling case on the person you suspect.
Quit wasting time. Get to work, and for the love of God, quit gloating about stupid shit. Don't make me hound you again about how you're deliberately playing poorly.
Bdthemag, I'm starting to get the sense that you don't really want to play this game. Why do I get this sense? Well, you're around elsewhere on the forums but you're not posting here.
You should realize that as an IC I am incredibly jealous and demand most of your time and become envious if you spend it elsewhere. And it infuriates me to see a player actively posting on the forums but completely ignoring the games he signed up for.
So where are you? Do you want to play? Do you want to learn? I won't be offended if you answer no to either of these questions, but what will offend me is if you tell me yes but continue to play arm's length away like you currently are.
Post by: kilakan on July 02, 2011, 08:43:02 pm
Post by: Bdthemag on July 02, 2011, 08:45:58 pm
Kilikan- I believe I have been answering questions directed at me, besides the "GET PLAYING" questions. Care to quote a question I have failed to answer?
Breadbocks- Why do you seem so focused on convincing us that Max is twisting your words around after you made a mistake? I have seen no clear evidence towards Max doing this, just mainly him pointing something out.
Post by: Jim Groovester on July 02, 2011, 08:50:53 pm
So get into better posting habits soon so I don't have to drag your ass in here every day and remind you about what you signed up for.
oh sorry Jim, I tried to read through the last 4 pages I missed, but I must have missed that post.
Every time you see my scowling visage you should probably pay very close attention because what I have to say is of earth-shattering importance.
Also, I'm an IC, so there's that to consider too.
Post by: kilakan on July 02, 2011, 09:16:05 pm
It's not the questions, it's the complete and utter failure to reply to any comments about you, or explain yourself or your actions.
Kilikan- I believe I have been answering questions directed at me, besides the "GET PLAYING" questions. Care to quote a question I have failed to answer?
Post by: breadbocks on July 02, 2011, 09:38:51 pm
Breadbocks- Why do you seem so focused on convincing us that Max is twisting your words around after you made a mistake? I have seen no clear evidence towards Max doing this, just mainly him pointing something out.That particular example of Max word-twisting was just the first I found. There's plenty more to be had.
Fix'd that for you.HURRR TYPOS I MISTYPED WASN'T.Protip: If you check over every word you type, you don't have to remember what you say, and end up confusing yourself less.
And now me not reading over my post has cause no end of confusion twice now. :-\
As for expressing my thoughts about NK, honestly, it was vocal thinking. I put my thoughts down in text and then decided to keep it there for the actual post. I stand by what I said.
Post by: Max White on July 03, 2011, 12:18:14 am
Post by: Vector on July 03, 2011, 12:19:34 am
Protip: If you check over every word you type, you don't have to remember what you say, and end up confusing yourself less.Fix'd that for you.
That should be a given. This is Mafia.
Post by: Max White on July 03, 2011, 12:30:32 am
Post by: Vector on July 03, 2011, 12:35:31 am
As soon as I am capable of such, however, I will answer your question.
Post by: Max White on July 03, 2011, 12:42:05 am
I was never good at keeping track of time zones.
Post by: Vector on July 03, 2011, 12:47:50 am
Yeah, my social skills are very tired; the previous warning was because I was suffering sensory overloads on Friday, which make it very, very hard for me to concentrate. Fortunately, they were relatively mild.
Anyway, I will of course ask for an extension if one is necessary.
Post by: kilakan on July 03, 2011, 09:11:32 am
Post by: Think0028 on July 03, 2011, 11:52:48 am
Post by: Darvi on July 03, 2011, 12:04:37 pm
Really, I don't think I'm going to extend because not everyody has them.
Post by: Vector on July 03, 2011, 01:37:02 pm
um that's not cool Vector, the day I got called on for being away was Canada day for me... so I don't think you get to count monday as a weekend.
I apologize for attempting to negotiate a typical amenity granted on these forums.
In any case, I will certainly not be posting much today, and probably not be posting much tomorrow. This is not because of the celebration, but because of ... well, just call it disability leave or whatever. I'll get back to it when I can.
Post by: kilakan on July 03, 2011, 01:54:24 pm
Post by: Vector on July 03, 2011, 05:09:32 pm
I have no problem with you telling us you're gonna be away for a fair bit, but wanting it to become a weekend day is too far.
I have no 4th of July celebrations planned. Not even watching 1776.
I was actually trying to be considerate of other people. However, it seems that I have just made people angry, so, again--I apologize.
Post by: Max White on July 03, 2011, 05:26:34 pm
This is a game, it takes second preference to real life situations, so patriotism aside, if a lot of people are likely to be taking that day off, nothing will be happening here anyway, so don't count the day. Simple!
Post by: breadbocks on July 03, 2011, 05:49:48 pm
Post by: Darvi on July 03, 2011, 05:50:46 pm
Post by: breadbocks on July 03, 2011, 06:12:23 pm
Post by: Max White on July 03, 2011, 06:27:14 pm
Post by: Bdthemag on July 03, 2011, 06:28:07 pm
Post by: Darvi on July 03, 2011, 06:28:22 pm
Post by: Jim Groovester on July 03, 2011, 06:37:49 pm
If you've got unanswered questions I suggest you start demanding answers from your targets in a vehement way.
If you don't have any unanswered questions I suggest you start pushing for a lynch. Go bother people about their suspicions, and convince them that your target is scummier than their target. You might even get decent reads on people in the process.
Indeed good sir's! Extend
You're obviously reading the game. Why aren't you playing it?
You're on the forums aaaaaaaaaaall daaaaaaaaay loooooooooong and you barely post here. I can't teach an unwilling student, and even though you said you wanted to play I remain unconvinced that you actually do.
Post by: Max White on July 03, 2011, 06:49:18 pm
Bdthemag: I didn't want this, because I think your a townie, but dammit I don't know any other way! Activate, now! Who are your first and second scum picks, giving reasons, and quotes where required.
Post by: Bdthemag on July 03, 2011, 07:16:59 pm
Read the thread! And I'm going to start with my suspicions on UltraValican, based on what I've read. I kind of forgot the first few pages but:Here he jumped on the UltraValican bandwagon, the question he asked Ultra was just like everyone elses.
Upon close questioning of his vote on someone, he withdraws, unvotes and doesn't even ask any questions or even attempt to scumhunt. He proceeds to stay like this, getting in a completely unrelated conversation whilst still not scumhunting. You continue to be jumpy and bandwagon people with no prior reasoning, and whenever questioned on it you pull off again from voting. Oftentimes you (this may sound a bit hypocritical coming from me, but whatever) try to get out of suspicion by lamenting about your newbieness. I sucked too but at least I tried to get scum. All you have is a half-hearted attempt to look like you are, with horrible logic that looks like you just put nonsense and prior reasoning in a blender, set to "crush ice", and dumped the haphazard chunks all over your bandwagons. Now, I'm not an IC. I don't have to feel mercy for you because you suck. So I'm going to press you, without mercy, I want an explanation for your actions. And not "I suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck". UltraValican. Pressure vote. Answer.
Bandwagons are scummy because they show you want to get someone lynched with no real reasoning. AKA scum trying to thin the ranks.He's contradicting himself here, bandwagons are scummy but yet he does it. Then he goes on to say that his second pick is Vector, odd how he chooses that Vector is his second scumpick once she votes for him.
And my second pick would probably be you Vector, for your early tunneling of kilakan. It seemed rather like you were just tryign to get him lynched, not scumhunting.
Maybe it's because I got bored and skipped the last few pages (the ones I came in at), but I don't really see much suspicious things in Max's answers. And now of course according to your TRAP! I'm a scum for buddying! Yeah, no. And because I forgot to actually RV, Unvote UltraValican, Max White Who would you pick Night 1 as mafia, to kill?This is him going into the whole nightkill discussion, since its silly to talk about night kills since only the killer knows why they wanted that person dead.
Hmmm, Max White why would you only kill people that would be expected or not noticed? Must just be play style... Oh well, I've already got my answer, so Unvote Max White.He then immediately unvotes, which is odd since I was expecting he would do a follow up on that question.
After that quote he's been completely quiet.
Now onto Breadbocks
Here he said at first that he didn't post because he was waiting for something worth saying about, no scumhunting just him wanting to share his insight onto the current situation which is pretty scummy.Suspicion 2: breadbocks, initially for massive amounts of lurking. Why didn't you post at all over the weekend? If you were observing as you said you where, what were your opinions of what was going on?I already said why I didn't post on the weekend. I was waiting for something worth saying something about, either through UV doing enough to convince me of his innocence, which would be nigh on impossible, or someone else seemed scummier. Neither of those happened. As far as I could tell, the larger portions of what happened was Vector telling him "You're being stupid. Try to prove your innocence." and UV flailing around, and then towards the end, people grilling PM about not being here.
Max, not good enough. First off, I'm not assuming you have precognitive powers, and thus wouldn't be able to say when by my standards you started being useful. It's called a rhetorical question. As for you not understanding my second question, bullshit. I made it clear that from my point of view you were twisting words till they snapped, and outright lying. You would like an example? I don't even need to go back that far.Breadbocks: Your first vote onto UltraValican was a RVS vote, and you never pulled it off, or bought new evidence into light. Can you explain your beliefs.In fact, when I voted UV, I was clear as daylight it was an RVS. You've said numerous other things that are clearly lies, and each one hurts your credibility.
You also placed this vote as soon as Ultra and Kilakan started into their argument, thus bandwagoning hid as a RVS. Just saying.
Then he goes onto trying to convince people that Max is twisting his words around to make him seem scummy, and its totally not his fault.
He goes on to say just because he voted during the RVS stage that doesn't mean his vote is random, this is reasonable to some extent. Then he say's that talking about the NightKill is scummy but then he say's what he thinks about the night kill.Was there a question in all that? Or was it just your reaction to somebody showing some interest in you? I said you RVS voted UV, you did, I said you never pulled it off, you didn't. I didn't imply anything from it, but rather asked for your beliefs, giving you a chance to put forward evidence, and you jump like I set your pants on fire, and still have not answered it at all.Sigh. LTR doesn't begin to cover this. A vote made during RVS does not equal a RV. A random vote, oddly enough is made randomly, as in, arbitrarily and with no reason. As I clearly provided a reason, what you said is rendered a lie. Only scum and doctors/cops have reason to lie, and I doubt you are a doctor.
Maybe your seeing something in the questions that isn't there, because you are reading it from scum eyes?If I really wanted ihm lynched, I would have continued to vote for him until the end od the day, which, as you'll note, I did not.That is an incredibly scummy thing to say. NK is one of THE scummiest things to discuss and use as evidence. But you want to talk nk? Fine. It proves Vector is innocent. ICs in BM are puppet masters, full tilt. By killing them, all you do is take away one of the votes they control. That means there at 5 people left, 2 of which are scum. I now thing Max and you are both scum.
Also, Jim got nightkilled. Why in the world am I not surprised?
Post by: Max White on July 03, 2011, 07:34:45 pm
Powder Miner: Defend thou self, lest my vote chop off your head! A few people currently think your the scum, assuming you are a townie, what is your opinion of those who are accusing you?
Post by: Jim Groovester on July 03, 2011, 07:52:46 pm
Stuff
That's good.
But what's your point? What are you trying to do with this wall of text?
Post by: Bdthemag on July 03, 2011, 07:56:42 pm
Breadbocks if there are so many other examples as you say, then how about you share them with us and tell us why you think that is Max twisting your words around.
Powder Miner Get over here!
Post by: Jim Groovester on July 03, 2011, 08:16:38 pm
Keep it up. I don't want to have to drag you here from inactivity every single day, so be active.
Post by: Think0028 on July 03, 2011, 08:23:56 pm
breadbocks: You still did very little after putting that vote on Valican, and let it ride on him all the way to lynching. Why didn't you keep pressing him, or gather additional information on other people?
Post by: breadbocks on July 03, 2011, 08:35:33 pm
So, we start here, his first post with any real sort of scum hunting. I'm putting comments in blue text because I'd rather avoid futzing with quotes.
And then he ends it in a poorly founded Ethos argument to try and take moral high ground.Holy mother of Batman, that's a lot of run-on sentences.Well that wasn't just a little emotive, don;t you think Vector. This starts out with a comment on the lengh of sentances? Will we start calling scum because somebody used a semi colon when a colon was due? It even ends with a trademark 'hurm', in what has no debating value, it just undermines the integrity of the post on an emotional level.
Also, the usual issue with folks nudging other folks to consider lynching them gosh-darned ICs off the planet. Because they might just give bad and misleading advice, as they've sworn not to do. Hurm.
See, here he's strawmanning about, fair is fair, a strawman. Both are little more than shit arguments. He then complains about word choice, doubling up the strawmen in one post, in addition to contradicting what he said about punctuation in the first strawman.So now their is a relationship between kilakan and myself showing that we are scum, bringing the total to three now? Kilakan, Jim and Myself? So do you honestly think that in your first post you managed to find all three scum players, Vector? When a player asked a good question, and another gives a scumm answer, that does not mean the first player must have been conspiring with the other. What sort of half baked reasoning is that? We hunt scum, expect interesting answers from questions asked by honest people. This looks like nothing more than another attempt to tunnel kilakan.And... what looks like working with Max White in order to pressure for no-lynches D1 if one isn't "sure."Think-But if lynching on day 1 gives a mislynch that would just make the mafia win faster, so:What happens if you are not sure of anything at the end of the first day, how would you go about picking who to random-lynch?Think: Do you approve of a lynch on day one, even if we are not fully sure of Mafia status, just some what sure?
Yes. Not lynching on Day 1 just gives scum a free kill, and means that if we have 2 mislynches, the Mafia win.
Here he again presses a claim that somewhere along the way, Vector accused Jim of being scum, which I just can't find. An outright fabrication.
Great, didn't want to go into all that, Vector being an IC and all, but you asked.
Here's another good one:
And there you go. Calling kilakan scum outright, and he never followed up on it.MaxWhite-How would you avoid detection as a Scum, if you plan on taking out the lurkers at night?Have an axe to grind. Try to get a reason to begrudge a player, then focus everything you have at them, even if nobody else is going to vote them. That way you have a reason to not vote for anybody else, including your mafia friends.
Also, I'm not one of the IC's, if your looking for tips on how to not be lynched the first day, your scumchat will provide you more useful information than I can.
Max White gets scummier and scummier.
Post by: Max White on July 03, 2011, 08:51:24 pm
See, here he's strawmanning about, fair is fair, a strawman. Both are little more than shit arguments. He then complains about word choice, doubling up the strawmen in one post, in addition to contradicting what he said about punctuation in the first strawman.This is Vector I was talking about, I would expect her choice of words to be more careful than anybody else. She has shown to be carefully looking at the wording of her own posts and others
Because I used language targeting the reader, rather than addressing the target, it could be said that I was attempting to shift the reader's suspicions to the target in a manipulative sort of way. I would find this questionable if someone else did it while paired with a lot of other things.so if anybody is going to try to deceive with language, it is well within her abilities. Pressing somebody for something they said that could be suspicious is not twisting words, it is trying to force them to give a clearer explanation of their intent.
Here he again presses a claim that somewhere along the way, Vector accused Jim of being scum, which I just can't find. An outright fabrication.Ok, I shall admit my error here. When Vector accused kilakan of buddying
I assumed she meant that kilakan and Jim were working together as a team. Is it really expected that we fully understand all the termanology in a beginners game?UltraValican, I've never seen you around here before, so answer me a question. As a cop, how would you determine who to inspect at night?-If you were a doctor, how would you go about determining the most likely person to be targeted by the scum at night, so you might best protect them?
Notice patterns in people copying/mirroring others. This is a subtle form of buddying I call "emotional alignment." In case you're wondering about this, I read in a book that autistic kids don't realize that they should copy their friends' opinions in order to get along with them. Identify themselves as the same team, as it were. So: buddying.
And there you go. Calling kilakan scum outright, and he never followed up on it.Reaction test, brosoph. If he had of made a big deal of it, I would have pressed on, but he passed. Also, that isn't an example of twisting words, just scum hunting.
Post by: Max White on July 04, 2011, 01:35:31 am
breadbocks: What is your opinion of Powder?
Post by: TolyK on July 04, 2011, 07:11:33 am
Really, guys.
You might get the extension (from me, since minecraft) but i dunno about darvi - 3 strikes and you're on the stove...
Post by: webadict on July 04, 2011, 10:17:26 am
Post by: kilakan on July 04, 2011, 12:38:27 pm
Dammit man, I can't lynch scum by myself! I require voters. TOWNIES, COME TO MY AID!!!! Because seriously, if you guys keep lurking, I am going to do things with a fishhook you didn't think were possible, and your going to see things you never knew you had...Hey what gives you the idea he's town, give me a few examples of where he proves himself.
Bdthemag: I didn't want this, because I think your a townie, but dammit I don't know any other way! Activate, now! Who are your first and second scum picks, giving reasons, and quotes where required.
Now things are getting better. A little bit of proding and people start posting again. Now to address some points here.So what side would you consider someone to be on the edge of paranoid about their wording to be on?See, here he's strawmanning about, fair is fair, a strawman. Both are little more than shit arguments. He then complains about word choice, doubling up the strawmen in one post, in addition to contradicting what he said about punctuation in the first strawman.This is Vector I was talking about, I would expect her choice of words to be more careful than anybody else. She has shown to be carefully looking at the wording of her own posts and others
It was more that she accused me of budding since I in essence copied Jim's question, which I just did since I thought it was a valid question. Declaring one person buddying doesn't incriminate the other, it says they are attempting to become friends with a townie.Because I used language targeting the reader, rather than addressing the target, it could be said that I was attempting to shift the reader's suspicions to the target in a manipulative sort of way. I would find this questionable if someone else did it while paired with a lot of other things.so if anybody is going to try to deceive with language, it is well within her abilities. Pressing somebody for something they said that could be suspicious is not twisting words, it is trying to force them to give a clearer explanation of their intent.Here he again presses a claim that somewhere along the way, Vector accused Jim of being scum, which I just can't find. An outright fabrication.Ok, I shall admit my error here. When Vector accused kilakan of buddyingI assumed she meant that kilakan and Jim were working together as a team. Is it really expected that we fully understand all the termanology in a beginners game?UltraValican, I've never seen you around here before, so answer me a question. As a cop, how would you determine who to inspect at night?-If you were a doctor, how would you go about determining the most likely person to be targeted by the scum at night, so you might best protect them?
Notice patterns in people copying/mirroring others. This is a subtle form of buddying I call "emotional alignment." In case you're wondering about this, I read in a book that autistic kids don't realize that they should copy their friends' opinions in order to get along with them. Identify themselves as the same team, as it were. So: buddying.
Post by: Max White on July 04, 2011, 04:35:33 pm
Hey what gives you the idea he's town, give me a few examples of where he proves himself.I said assuming he was a townie, so the answer he would give if he was a townie. I didn't imply he was a townie. Also, since when do we ask for proof that somebody is a townie? This looks a little like your pushing for a lynch without being able to show he is scum, so you demand I show he is townie instead.
So what side would you consider someone to be on the edge of paranoid about their wording to be on?
That question didn't make sense in the current context. I need a 'somebody' or an 'edge' to work with, or else the question has two many blanks.
Post by: kilakan on July 04, 2011, 05:02:20 pm
You didn't say assuming, you said that you think Bdthemag is a townie. I asked why do you think that. Simple enough question.Hey what gives you the idea he's town, give me a few examples of where he proves himself.I said assuming he was a townie, so the answer he would give if he was a townie. I didn't imply he was a townie. Also, since when do we ask for proof that somebody is a townie? This looks a little like your pushing for a lynch without being able to show he is scum, so you demand I show he is townie instead.
I was referencing what you were saying about Vector so let me rephrase that for you: You say that Vector chooses her words far more carefully then others, and looks far more critically at the wording of her own posts and others posts. So what do you think that says about her? Since if you thought it was a pointless statement, then why would you say it.So what side would you consider someone to be on the edge of paranoid about their wording to be on?
That question didn't make sense in the current context. I need a 'somebody' or an 'edge' to work with, or else the question has two many blanks.
Post by: Max White on July 04, 2011, 05:16:16 pm
You didn't say assuming, you said that you think Bdthemag is a townie. I asked why do you think that. Simple enough question.
Oh yea, your right, were talking about BD, sorry, early morning. Thought this was about Powder. My mistake!
How about because he hasn't done anything that scummy. I mean really, when I thought it was about powder I was just pointing out that it looked scumy without suspecting you at all, but your asking me to prove bd is townie? Hell no, prove to me he is scum! I think he is townie, so show me otherwise if you want a lynch, because calling everybody who doesn't see the world the same way as you scum is a rather scummy act. Fear tactics are scum moves.
I was referencing what you were saying about Vector so let me rephrase that for you: You say that Vector chooses her words far more carefully then others, and looks far more critically at the wording of her own posts and others posts. So what do you think that says about her? Since if you thought it was a pointless statement, then why would you say it.It means she is careful with her words, and I expect both scum vector and town vector to do the same. Although I would expect scum vector to try and destroy the town, so I was looking to see if she was attempting just that.
If I say vector is careful with her words, it means I think vector is careful with her words. That's what it says about her.
Post by: kilakan on July 04, 2011, 07:01:47 pm
Post by: Jim Groovester on July 04, 2011, 07:22:05 pm
it makes a useful lure for potential bandwagoners too.
Making yourself a target is generally a poor strategy.
Because what if it you do it too well????
Then you're fucked.
Whether you do it poorly or well, it has a high chance of backfiring, because, well shit, you're making yourself a target.
It only really works against players without much experience anyways, because if you pull that trick on a player with a lot of experience they know enough about the game to argue themselves out of it and utterly destroy you in the process. And there are a lot of ways to catch inexperienced players, many of which aren't risky. As a new player I'd advise going for safer options.
Post by: kilakan on July 04, 2011, 08:05:34 pm
Post by: Bdthemag on July 04, 2011, 08:50:14 pm
Post by: Jim Groovester on July 04, 2011, 10:54:03 pm
I don't think you understood what I was talking about Jim, I meant more like lay on the fear to another player, not myself. Like pull up everything I can find on them, attack, call them scum, without actually having committed to lynching them yet, until I can see their responses. Thus they fear being lynched, try and talk their way out of it, let me see how they react. That way if someone else jumps on the person I am attacking, without having any real idea of their own as to why, then they make my next target since they jumped at the chance of having someone to lynch. So I'm not making myself a target, I'm making the person I am attacking a target to lure band wagoners onto them. either way it's not something I would do past day one, or in a talented group. It's more to try and get untalented scum to try and buddy me by voting the person I'm attacking prematurely.
Gotcha.
If you want to lure bandwagoners you're going to have to lay into somebody a lot harder than you are right now. You're more just putting pressure on him.
I don't think much of luring bandwagoners as a strategy either. Untalented scum will bandwagon of their own accord without you building an unnecessarily hostile case on somebody, and you run into trouble because you're attacking somebody disingenuously, and being disingenuous even if you're town and trying to scum hunt is always playing with fire. Additionally, you might catch untalented scum doing something like that, but you'll catch untalented town just as frequently. (To be fair, you'll catch untalented town for a lot of stuff, but at least you're not lynching them because they agreed with your case and didn't know better.)
You should just make a good, strong case against somebody you actually suspect and press people about their suspicions instead. You'll get roughly the same results, without all the hassle of people giving you crap for making and pressing a case you didn't actually believe.
Blah blah Jim Groovester's Mafia Theory blah blah get back to hunting.
Post by: breadbocks on July 04, 2011, 11:35:08 pm
Nothing is happening again...
breadbocks: What is your opinion of Powder?
- Powder Miner: There's too little there for me to judge from. Def needs to post more.Please. Prove me wrong; that you aren't scum. And you know how you do that? By actually scumhunting.
Post by: Think0028 on July 05, 2011, 01:30:30 am
breadbocks: You haven't answered my question. Why didn't you continue scumhunting after you placed your vote on UltraValican?
Post by: Max White on July 05, 2011, 03:11:55 am
Prove me wrong; that you aren't scum. And you know how you do that? By actually scumhunting.Alright, scum hunting, eh?
Breadbocks: Let's go over this again. Post voting for Ultra, did you find any other reasons to think he was scum, and if so, what were they?
Post by: Jim Groovester on July 05, 2011, 04:25:40 pm
Deadline's tonight. Make up your minds.
Post by: Darvi on July 05, 2011, 04:31:39 pm
Post by: Darvi on July 05, 2011, 04:34:41 pm
breadbocks -2- bdthemag, Max White
Powder Miner -2- think0028, Vector
Max White -1- breadbocks
bdthemag -1- kilakan
not voting: Powder Miner
If the votes don't change there will be no lynch!
1 more to extend, 4 to shorten, no hammer!
Post by: Think0028 on July 05, 2011, 04:35:29 pm
Post by: Think0028 on July 05, 2011, 04:35:49 pm
Post by: Darvi on July 05, 2011, 04:36:29 pm
Post by: TolyK on July 05, 2011, 04:38:29 pm
30 minutes left, to be exact. Hurry up!yep.
MR RESIDENT INSOMNIAC is here to lock the thread.
...
or not.
Whiteboard
breadbocks -3- bdthemag, Max White
Powder Miner -1- think0028, Vector
Max White -1- breadbocks
bdthemag -1- kilakan
not voting: Powder Miner
breadbocks will be lynched if nothing changes!
DAY EXTENDED!
um... is it OK to extend it 20 hours? I will probably be awake then...
Post by: Vector on July 05, 2011, 04:41:07 pm
Failing that, I want to lynch him. I want to lynch him very, very badly.
Post by: Think0028 on July 05, 2011, 04:44:28 pm
Vector: Where is your read of breadbocks you promised?
breadbocks: Where is your response to my questions?
Powder Miner: Where are you, period?
As for my vote, unvote, Powder Miner now that the game's extended.
Post by: Darvi on July 05, 2011, 04:45:17 pm
Wait. Can you sheath a mace?
Post by: Vector on July 05, 2011, 04:52:04 pm
Vector: Where is your read of breadbocks you promised?
He's my second-tier pick right now; BDthemag is currently sitting in third.
I sort of feel like he's trying to draw fire to Max White right now. The bit where he waffled on whether or not he was RVSing is data I'd throw out, because it'll just drive everyone crazy. That, and all of his picks/attacks have felt fairly weak to me.
And, finally, my gut feels a bit weird about him. BDthemag feels more overtly scummy to me, but then I also feel that Breadbocks and PowderMiner may have been avoiding each other. Of course, should anyone happen to kick up an interaction between the two of them, I'll wind up with a different opinion.
^ Sorry for weird writing; I mean a significant interaction, rather than just a little "oh hi there yeah we totally aren't scum buddies" thing.
It's very hard for me to take care with my posts right now, because the text wrap for writing them is so danged broken.
Post by: Think0028 on July 05, 2011, 04:54:37 pm
Post by: Darvi on July 05, 2011, 05:02:48 pm
I was going to PM this to Vector,Whoawhoawhoa.
Quote
*everything else*Oh. That. Meep.
Post by: Max White on July 05, 2011, 05:11:33 pm
Failing that, I want to lynch him. I want to lynch him very, very badly.While I understand that you have your reasons for Powder, this specific post raises the question of what is your stance on policy lynches. I mean personally I see them as a sheild for scum to hide behind as they kill off the town, and thus you shouldn't lynch just because somebody is inactive, but what of your opinion?
And, finally, my gut feels a bit weird about him. BDthemag feels more overtly scummy to me, but then I also feel that Breadbocks and PowderMiner may have been avoiding each other. Of course, should anyone happen to kick up an interaction between the two of them, I'll wind up with a different opinion.Not that hard to do Vector. Geeze, if I didn't know that you were taking it easy I would accuse you of trying to avoid conflict, still, I don't think you would lie about meta game, it seems very unsports like.
BDthemag: What do you think of Powder?
I was going to PM this to Vector, but this'll be important for everyone since we like writing big posts: clear your cache. The forum software update made the old CSS now bug out on the post text boxes, so clearing your cache will load the new correct CSS.Thanks for the heads up! :)
Wait. Can you sheath a mace?I think your missing the point. Your a mod, you could sheath a horse and rider if needed.
Post by: Vector on July 05, 2011, 05:22:29 pm
All of the stuff he did beforehand was good grounds for lynching. His lurking is relevant only so much as it really pisses me off.
b. I didn't mean "you go create an interaction."
I meant things that they willingly did themselves. I don't remember Breadbocks and PowderMiner attacking or questioning each other. In fact, I feel like Breadbocks is deliberately shifting away from PM.
What I meant was: "Should anyone happen to remember anything, I'd be interested in hearing it--but right now I do not have spades and spades of time to go looking through the thread so that I can read all of the posts either of them ever wrote."
Sorry for the confusion.
Also, I am feeling very sure about PowderMiner right now, so... frankly, it's really hard for me to do anything with the main player in the feud gone.
Other than this:
I would like anyone who is against lynching PowderMiner to tell me why.
Post by: Max White on July 05, 2011, 05:28:15 pm
Yo, dawg!
Because to be honest, I don't see it. Not that I feel strongly that he is town, the bastard hasn't been here long enough for me to feel anything about him beyond the fact that he doesn't do anything. And while you were right, vector, about Ultra, I'll be dammed if that is enough for me to follow you to the end of the earth. Yea, he is more lynch worthy than some others I have seen, but when Breadbocks is doing the scum dance so well, why settle for the lurker?
Post by: Vector on July 05, 2011, 05:30:29 pm
I would be quite interested in hearing everyone else's answers, however.
Post by: TolyK on July 05, 2011, 05:31:08 pm
I would like anyone who is against lynching PowderMiner to tell me why....
Post by: Bdthemag on July 05, 2011, 06:03:28 pm
Post by: Vector on July 05, 2011, 06:14:51 pm
Why aren't you questioning and attacking them?
Post by: Bdthemag on July 05, 2011, 06:16:52 pm
BDthemag, who do you think is scum?First of all im mainly waiting for Powder to get in here to actually answer my question. Since currently he's on the top of my scumlist.
Why aren't you questioning and attacking them?
Post by: Darvi on July 05, 2011, 06:31:09 pm
Post by: Max White on July 05, 2011, 08:04:28 pm
Vector, BD, seems you no longer need to wait. If Powder doesn't show up to defend himself he isn't any worry for you, and if he does you can start questioning him, so no reason for us to sit on our hands something happens. We were very kindly given an extension, perhaps we could use it.
Kilakan: We already have one person on the ropes for being inactive, please do not make it two. Who are your favourite picks and for what reasons?
Post by: breadbocks on July 05, 2011, 08:11:24 pm
breadbocks: You haven't answered my question. Why didn't you continue scumhunting after you placed your vote on UltraValican?Ah, sorry. Missed it. I didn't continue scumhunting because I was confident UV was scum, and scumteamhunting would be hellish in the clusterfuck that it was.
breadbocks: Where is your response to my questions?Well, let's see... 5PM today... I was asleep. I've been quite ill recently, and as a result, my sleeping schedule has been upside down. This would be fine evidence were it not for the fact I hadn't posted at all today when you posted that.
As for PowderMiner, this is getting kind of ridiculous. He's already been prodded twice, right? If he needs to be prodded again, I honestly think a modkill is in order.
Max, who are you planning on nightkilling?
Post by: Max White on July 05, 2011, 08:21:59 pm
But no, seriously, that's it? Asking lame, loaded questions that went out with the RVS? That's your idea of scum hunting? Make an effort man, that is just sad.
Post by: Vector on July 05, 2011, 08:28:03 pm
Vector, because we all know girls fall for a bad boy that is no good for them. Just watch twilight for proof. :P
But no, seriously, that's it? Asking lame, loaded questions that went out with the RVS? That's your idea of scum hunting? Make an effort man, that is just sad.
The correct answer is "no one, because I don't have a nightkill."
Explain.
Vector, BD, seems you no longer need to wait. If Powder doesn't show up to defend himself he isn't any worry for you, and if he does you can start questioning him, so no reason for us to sit on our hands something happens. We were very kindly given an extension, perhaps we could use it.
I've been posting what I could post, mostly questions of people who have finally shown up to do something. It's not like I'm waiting around doing nothing.
Post by: Max White on July 05, 2011, 08:32:27 pm
Explain.I'm finding it harder and harder to take Breadbocks seriously, when he pulls out a question like that, how am I meant to keep a straight face.
I expect a page long analysis of each and every post I have made, going into how it is scummy, and all I get is a RVS question? I realy did want more from him. Game has been long and slow, I thought Breadbocks would make a nice challenge now that I am content with you, and he broke my heart.
No, I don't have a night kill, but really, if there is a correct answer to that question, can giving the stock standard answer hold any real merit?
Post by: Vector on July 05, 2011, 09:05:14 pm
Seriously.
I don't feel very good about you right now, Max White.
Post by: Max White on July 05, 2011, 09:13:20 pm
I don't have much to do right now, and my other game is still in night time, and this has turned into a lurk-off. If Breakbocks can't form an argument, then why don't you have a go. We have some time, might as well use it for something.
But really, you think I forgot that townies don't get a NK? Is that really the most plausible explanation in your mind? Or is this just a small detail that you want to be a real argument because it is your chance to save your buddy Breadbocks? Powder is going to get modkilled, and Bread seems to have become a popular choice, so now he might become lynch of the day, and you don't want that, do you?
Who is your first choice and why, vector, not counting Powder. Now that it counts for something, do you still suspect Bread, or have you quickly changed your mind?
Post by: Vector on July 05, 2011, 09:26:13 pm
I thought Breadbocks would make a nice challenge now that I am content with you.
I'm sorry, but what happened to this about two minutes ago? I am not wasting my fucking energy arguing with you unless you have some allegations to bring or you do something REALLY stupid.
I told you that Breadbocks was my second choice after PowderMiner. Period. He has been all Day; he's been in that position since D1.
I haven't quickly changed my mind, you festering asshole. You said something that I think is an elementary mistake, and yeah, if you'd said it D1 you'd be dead. But I have other suspects I'm working with, and we're running out of time.
So fuck off, because I frankly am tired of you monopolizing my time and getting excited every time I have something to say about your behavior.
Post by: Max White on July 05, 2011, 09:35:03 pm
You suck. Fine, go do something constructive... I'll just be here watching the hours tick away. I guess I should find something better to do until then anyway. Yea, that argument was basically build on WIFOM, but if your in no mood for this today then what ever.
Post by: Vector on July 05, 2011, 09:45:42 pm
So yeah, don't you dare try to start up an argument in this game just because you're bored. Have some compassion for other people's feelings.
Post by: Jim Groovester on July 05, 2011, 11:25:38 pm
Not how I would like to see him get killed, but he seems to have little interest in this game... If he were a townie, would he's death as a modkill shorten the number of days that townie have to win?
Not necessarily. If he were modkilled the best move for the town would be to no lynch today, and then Day 3 would be lylo.
But this is not ideal, since modkilling him forces the town to no lynching when they could otherwise lynch their choice of target.
Modkills are also pretty extreme. I doubt Powder Miner needs that. A replacement would work just as well.
Max this lurking is really odd, but then again I also went through a period of lurking. He could be scum, but then again he could be the nervous newbie. Currently though he's seeming more scum than nervous newbie at the moment, but hopefully he can come in here and actually show us why we shouldn't think he's scum.
He could be, he could not be, he could be, he could not be.
Be firmer with your opinion. Say exactly what you think at the start instead of meandering around all potential options. Your opinion looks weaker if you do that, and having a weak opinion will you get in trouble since people will think you're scummy for it, i.e., you don't want to tread on a lot of toes.
So fuck off, because I frankly am tired of you monopolizing my time and getting excited every time I have something to say about your behavior.
Have a little patience, Vector.
Post by: Vector on July 05, 2011, 11:31:26 pm
This has been one of the worst days I've had for a long, long time. My temper is a little bit short.
Post by: Darvi on July 06, 2011, 04:14:32 am
Post by: Max White on July 06, 2011, 04:55:20 am
Post by: Jim Groovester on July 06, 2011, 05:07:55 am
No.
Post by: Darvi on July 06, 2011, 05:32:39 am
And before anybody gets any stupid ideas, this also goes if he's scum. Only the replacement knows his alignment. Aaaand maybe his scumbuddy/mason/brother.
Post by: Max White on July 06, 2011, 05:56:46 am
You mean like a replacement that also makes a confirmed townie?Na, I meant with the same alignment, so exactly like a replace, but Darvi get's to feel good about himself. :P
It just struck me, I should not be playing right now... The amount of alcohol I just had is making it hard to type. See you guys tomorrow morning.
Post by: kilakan on July 06, 2011, 09:37:16 am
Ya sorry sleep and 12 hour work days makes for little time to play mafia.
Kilakan: We already have one person on the ropes for being inactive, please do not make it two. Who are your favourite picks and for what reasons?
Anyways My top picks are BDthemag and breadbocks.
As for BDthemag, I'm unsure as to whether it's simply he's new so that when he posts and scum hunts it seems incredibly minimalistic. He tends to focus on one person, that tends towards those who don't post very much, he gives very little reasons for anything he does. For anything solid? Well this is a bloody mess so far, and with me not being able to get on as much as I like, well I'm getting confused and losing track, so it's really just a feeling.
Breadbocks-
Really so you pick one person, get yourself somewhat sure about the person, and then shut off? What the hell is this shit. You can be as sure as hell about someone, that doesn't mean that you just stop, give the person a bloody chance to explain themselves and actually watch others posts for suspicious things. Or was it that you knew he was town and there was a decent chance he'd get lynched so you stayed on him!breadbocks: You haven't answered my question. Why didn't you continue scumhunting after you placed your vote on UltraValican?Ah, sorry. Missed it. I didn't continue scumhunting because I was confident UV was scum, and scumteamhunting would be hellish in the clusterfuck that it was.
Oh ok then, you're sick, and I guess that when you get sick you must become blind and unable to move? Maybe if you are so sick that a computer would make you puke you should ask for a replacement.breadbocks: Where is your response to my questions?Well, let's see... 5PM today... I was asleep. I've been quite ill recently, and as a result, my sleeping schedule has been upside down. This would be fine evidence were it not for the fact I hadn't posted at all today when you posted that.
As for PowderMiner, this is getting kind of ridiculous. He's already been prodded twice, right? If he needs to be prodded again, I honestly think a modkill is in order.
Max, who are you planning on nightkilling?
Ah yes, pushing for a modkill, because you shutting off when you think someone is scum isn't ridiculous? It also seems to be ok for you to lurk when you're sick, maybe someone should check powderminers activity recently. Guess what I did and he hasn't done anything since the second, so maybe he can't post? I think a replacement is better when someone actually hasn't done anything on any part of the forum for 4 days.
Post by: breadbocks on July 06, 2011, 10:11:35 am
Breadbocks-Let's be very, very clear on this. Every post he made at that point made him seem scummier and scummier. And then he said that he was scum. That is the scumminess event horizon. You cannot go back from there. Also, lulzily enough, I gave him "a bloodychance to explain [him/herself] and actually watch[ed] other[']s posts for suspicious things"Really so you pick one person, get yourself somewhat sure about the person, and then shut off? What the hell is this shit. You can be as sure as hell about someone, that doesn't mean that you just stop, give the person a bloody chance to explain themselves and actually watch others posts for suspicious things. Or was it that you knew he was town and there was a decent chance he'd get lynched so you stayed on him!breadbocks: You haven't answered my question. Why didn't you continue scumhunting after you placed your vote on UltraValican?Ah, sorry. Missed it. I didn't continue scumhunting because I was confident UV was scum, and scumteamhunting would be hellish in the clusterfuck that it was.
Oh ok then, you're sick, and I guess that when you get sick you must become blind and unable to move? Maybe if you are so sick that a computer would make you puke you should ask for a replacement.breadbocks: Where is your response to my questions?Well, let's see... 5PM today... I was asleep. I've been quite ill recently, and as a result, my sleeping schedule has been upside down. This would be fine evidence were it not for the fact I hadn't posted at all today when you posted that.
As for PowderMiner, this is getting kind of ridiculous. He's already been prodded twice, right? If he needs to be prodded again, I honestly think a modkill is in order.
Max, who are you planning on nightkilling?
Ah yes, pushing for a modkill, because you shutting off when you think someone is scum isn't ridiculous? It also seems to be ok for you to lurk when you're sick, maybe someone should check powderminers activity recently. Guess what I did and he hasn't done anything since the second, so maybe he can't post? I think a replacement is better when someone actually hasn't done anything on any part of the forum for 4 days.[/quote]
No, being ill doesn't innately make me blind and/or paralyzed. This particular illness, does, however, cause my sleep schedule to be more than I'm awake, and at nocturnal times, meaning I wasn't awake when he posted that message. As you can see, I'm confident I can work while sick, but you need to recognize that my posting times won't be 24/7. As for pushing for a modkill, a replacement would work just as well, but I honestly would like to see if he flipped scum or not.
Post by: Jim Groovester on July 06, 2011, 12:59:05 pm
Or somebody, at the very least.
Post by: breadbocks on July 06, 2011, 02:09:40 pm
Max, my vote's going right back on you once I'm not running the risk of a no-lynch.
But since we are running the risk of no-lynch, Powder Miner has a fair bit to answer for.
Post by: Max White on July 06, 2011, 03:08:36 pm
*Shakes fist*
Get out of my town scum!!!
UltraValican: If your reading this, DAMN IT MAN! You could have saved yourself by voting for Powder and making a tie, giving you a read for the night. Even if you were lynched the next day, you would have had some show and tell for us.
No, that would've been a bad idea. It would've infuriated me to no end, and I wouldn't have held back about it.
If you're town, the only way you can save yourself from the lynch is by scumhunting well in advance of it. Gaming votes to save yourself is scummy fucking bullshit and you should never, ever, ever do that.
Lynches are valuable town resources. They're the primary way the town investigates its suspicions, so it's absolutely critical that the town make each and every one count, by lynching the top suspects with excellent arguments. Even if it's a mislynch, it narrows down the field and forces the town to reevaluate their suspicions, helping them get closer and closer to scum.
It's true that UltraValican could have saved himself, but he would've screwed over the town by doing that.
One out of one proven townie IC's believe lynching to try and save your own ass is an unforgivable scum move.
Post by: breadbocks on July 06, 2011, 03:13:54 pm
Post by: TolyK on July 06, 2011, 03:32:41 pm
;)
Post by: Darvi on July 06, 2011, 04:10:34 pm
Post by: TolyK on July 06, 2011, 04:13:05 pm
Post by: Darvi on July 06, 2011, 05:10:30 pm
In all the turmoil, one scoop of ice cream didn't bother to participate.
He simply stood there, just outside of the debating group.
You! Vector yelled at him.
Why aren't you doing anything?
You're just standing there and waiting for us to kill each other aren't you! She accused him.
Stop yelling at him like that! bdthemag intervenes.
You keep doing that, he's probably scared shitless by now!
She's right though, breadbocks replies.
If he's not helping us, he's against us. He has to die.
Nobody objected, or at least it went unnoticed, so he grabbed the scoop.
Any last words? He asked.
...
Thought so.
And with one swing of the deadly object, he cut of Powder Miner's head right off.
Before the ice cream even hit the ground the scoops noticed that they made an error in judgement.
And even before the green juice stopped spilling out of the corpse, they lied in bed, in ashamed about what they did.
He simply stood there, just outside of the debating group.
You! Vector yelled at him.
Why aren't you doing anything?
You're just standing there and waiting for us to kill each other aren't you! She accused him.
Stop yelling at him like that! bdthemag intervenes.
You keep doing that, he's probably scared shitless by now!
She's right though, breadbocks replies.
If he's not helping us, he's against us. He has to die.
Nobody objected, or at least it went unnoticed, so he grabbed the scoop.
Any last words? He asked.
...
Thought so.
And with one swing of the deadly object, he cut of Powder Miner's head right off.
Before the ice cream even hit the ground the scoops noticed that they made an error in judgement.
And even before the green juice stopped spilling out of the corpse, they lied in bed, in ashamed about what they did.
Powder Miner -3-Vector, Think0028, breadbocks
breadbocks -2- bdthemag, Max White
bdthemag -1- kilakan
Not voting: Powder Miner
Powder Miner has been lynched! He was a regular Mint Citizen!
It is now Night. Scum and power roles, you know what to do.
Post by: Darvi on July 07, 2011, 04:40:33 am
The scoops returned to the city square on the next morning, and this time all of them were there and ready to get started.
Well, sort of.
Vector at least wasn't ready, what with her being nailed to an ice lolly stick.
Don't ask how the stick got into the ice cream,but the poor woman will not be able to help anybody anymore.
Okay now that was a lie.
With them outnumbering the Vanilla Townies by only one, the Mint Citizens knew that they couldn't afford to make any more mistakes.
Nervously, they wiped the board and started what might be their last session forever.
Well, sort of.
Vector at least wasn't ready, what with her being nailed to an ice lolly stick.
Don't ask how the stick got into the ice cream,
Okay now that was a lie.
With them outnumbering the Vanilla Townies by only one, the Mint Citizens knew that they couldn't afford to make any more mistakes.
Nervously, they wiped the board and started what might be their last session forever.
Vector got nightkilled! She was a regular Mint Citizen!
Whiteboard
Not Voting: breadbocks, Max White, Think0028, bdthemag, kilakan
Barring extensions, the day ends on Monday, 10PM GMT
2 votes to extend, 3 to shorten, no hammer!
Post by: breadbocks on July 07, 2011, 04:53:16 am
Bdthemag, you need to be more active.
Post by: Max White on July 07, 2011, 05:06:11 am
breadbocks: When are you going to stop drowning kittens?
Post by: Jim Groovester on July 07, 2011, 08:08:57 am
You have only one lynch remaining, so make it count. Closely examine the posts of everyone in the game, picking at anything and everything you can find. Then, make your decision.
Activity from everybody is required at this point in the game. If anybody doesn't carry their weight, you will lose.
Good luck.
Post by: kilakan on July 07, 2011, 09:42:38 am
Do I need to go over this? I have made my case already.Holy hell of a pointless question bro.
breadbocks: When are you going to stop drowning kittens?
MaxWhiteScared to reexplain yourself? I'd like you to bring up as many points for yourself as to why you are not scum.
Whelp. Max, I am convinced you're one of the two scum. I've a 50/50 chance of being right, statistically. I've got all the points scattered around, I'll see if I can get them all in one post.Your math is incorrect you have a 2/5 chance which equates to 40/60.
Bdthemag, you need to be more active.
breadbocks-I'd like to see all your points for your second scum pick too.
Umm... What? I wouldn't be lynched. It would be a no-lynch, which is one of the worst things for town, except in very special cases.You would have been lynched if one person changed their vote, good for you no one did.
Post by: Jim Groovester on July 07, 2011, 03:03:52 pm
Your math is incorrect you have a 2/5 chance which equates to 40/60.
Nope, your math is incorrect.
He knows his own alignment. If he is town, then there are two town remaining that are not him, and two scum remaining that are not him.
50/50.
Post by: Max White on July 07, 2011, 07:18:03 pm
Not answering questions.
Breadbocks: Your first vote onto UltraValican was a RVS vote, and you never pulled it off, or bought new evidence into light. Can you explain your beliefs.I never got an answer to this. I spent a good effort trying to drag out an answer too! I guess that makes bandwagoning another point here, because we just could not get an answer, and the more anybody pushed Breadbocks for it, the more he confused himself.
You also placed this vote as soon as Ultra and Kilakan started into their argument, thus bandwagoning hid as a RVS. Just saying.
In fact, when I voted UV, I was clear as daylight it was an RVS. You've said numerous other things that are clearly lies, and each one hurts your credibility.
Actually, I didn't say it wasn't bandwagoning because it was RVS. Prove to me there's some ghost running my accout that I don't know about.So, random vote, right? Well...
As for why the NK WIFOM, it was purely me expressing my thoughts about the NK.
Sigh. LTR doesn't begin to cover this. A vote made during RVS does not equal a RV. A random vote, oddly enough is made randomly, as in, arbitrarily and with no reason. As I clearly provided a reason, what you said is rendered a lie. Only scum and doctors/cops have reason to lie, and I doubt you are a doctor.So it wasn't a random vote, it was chosen and justified right? Breadbocks didn't sort out he's story before hand, and now he's scummy ass will pay for it.
He made a bandwagon vote an is now trying to cover up any way he can by swapping between saying it is and is not a random vote, and he still refuses to address this point.
Asking Subjective questions.
Max, when will you start being useful to the town? So far you've been doing just about anything to try and start a vote on somebody.The problem with this question is that it really is as worthwhile as asking when somebody is going to stop drowning kittens, but without clearly being a joke. What do you expect me to do, question people? Well I have been doing that the entire time! Lynch scum? Nobody has yet, so I'm on par. This is just a loaded question, however it's the kind of thing that if scum manages to push really well, they might get a mislynch over.
Max, who are you planning on nightkilling?This one is a lot more fitting, in random question time maybe. Once again, some what pointless.
Being incredibly defensive.
Breadbocks: Your first vote onto UltraValican was a RVS vote, and you never pulled it off, or bought new evidence into light. Can you explain your beliefs.I would say that is a fair question to ask. All I wanted was for him to explain himself, now let's look at the response I get. This is breadbocks next post in it's entirety, no trimming.
Tell you what Vector, say "I told you so" all you want. It's not going to make Valican or Jim come back from the dead.Now not only did I not get my response, but he totally started to lash out at me with allegations with no foundation and weak questions. As soon as he is pressed for the answer to a simple question, those questioning him suddenly become scum in he's eyes.
Now, before I start on my list, where's yours? What, you think you're going to get away with bullshitting because you're the one whopointed the fingerdemanded the lists? Haha, nope. Also, you haven't given me your thoughts on Think. You've said you thought his slightly suspicious, and a little bit about why, but I'm not biting you "already gave" me your thoughts on him.
Max, I don't know what you're smoking, but in no way was my vote on Valican RVS. I spotted something off, and I pressed. And he crumpled. He then went on to (falsely) admit to being scum. Are you familiar with the BBB Gambit? You're throwing shit and missing the fan by a mile.
Now for that list!
- Max White: A fair bit suspicious. He seems to be trying his damnest to twist words and has been awfully inane with everything he's done so far. He gets my vote because he's the most of a lead.
- Powder Miner: There's too little there for me to judge from. Def needs to post more.
- Think0028: I'm thinking he could be scum. Too little posting, too little content to the posts.
- Kilakan: It seems like he's trying to scumhunt, and is just being ineffective.
- bdthemag: Lurky-lurk-lurk.
- Vector: Something odd strikes me about her posts. I can't place why, and I'm not sure if it's a scum oddity, so no vote.
My turn.
Max, when will you start being useful to the town? So far you've been doing just about anything to try and start a vote on somebody.
Bdthemag, are you planning on participating? What do you think about policy lynching lurkers?
Buddying up to powerful forces.
This is a lie built to try and buddy up to Vector. Even Vector thinks this is shitty reasoning.Like I said. BM ICs are puppet masters. You would know that killing Jim would do nothing to stop his effect on the flow of the game. You are aggressive enough to not let a noob scum partner go through with it. Thinking any further about it is WIFOM.But you want to talk nk? Fine. It proves Vector is innocent.
Buh?
Like I said. BM ICs are puppet masters. You would know that killing Jim would do nothing to stop his effect on the flow of the game. You are aggressive enough to not let a noob scum partner go through with it. Thinking any further about it is WIFOM.
Oh my god ::)
No. Compare amount and content of Jim's posts from before, compared to know. Rethink your hypothesis and don't use this shitty reasoning.
Lurking
As you can imagine, there is no single post by breadbocks to show this, but Vector summed it up well.
BREADBOCKS, GET YOUR ASS OUT HERE OR SO HELP ME GOD I WILL SET IT ON FUCKING FIRE.He just found a nice place to sit a vote, and then let it ride out without contributing anything. He is lazy lurker scum.
Post by: Think0028 on July 07, 2011, 08:41:27 pm
Post by: Max White on July 08, 2011, 12:10:05 am
Post by: Bdthemag on July 08, 2011, 12:19:09 am
Think you seem to have not been in any big arguements involving anyone, as a matter of fact I don't remember you in anything special besides a few remarks about who's scummy every once in awhile. Why so quick to jump the Breadbocks bandwagon, care to find something against him that wasn't already brought up?
Post by: Jim Groovester on July 08, 2011, 02:58:08 pm
Post by: Darvi on July 08, 2011, 03:00:33 pm
White's board
breadbocks -2- Max White, Think0028
Max White -2- breadbocks, kilakan
THink0028 -1- bdthemag
Post by: Vector on July 08, 2011, 03:08:46 pm
Vector is displeased.
Post by: Darvi on July 08, 2011, 03:09:59 pm
IS THIS LOUD ENOUGH FOR YOU GUYS?
Seriously now, at least kilakan will receive a prod if he doesn't turn up soon.
Post by: Think0028 on July 08, 2011, 03:17:12 pm
Post by: breadbocks on July 08, 2011, 03:35:19 pm
Do I need to go over this? I have made my case already.That question is horrible. It isn't something even remotely related. Make your case, and quit being defensive, scum.
breadbocks: When are you going to stop drowning kittens?
I gave my thoughts on my second pick. Lurky lurk lurker lurks lurkingly. Also, hypothetical someone moving their vote to me, and me being lynched is such utter bullshit. If you thought I was scum, why didn't you vote me? Empty hypotheticals mean nothing when there were no votes to be placed on me, unless PM magically showed up.Do I need to go over this? I have made my case already.Holy hell of a pointless question bro.
breadbocks: When are you going to stop drowning kittens?
MaxWhiteScared to reexplain yourself? I'd like you to bring up as many points for yourself as to why you are not scum.Whelp. Max, I am convinced you're one of the two scum. I've a 50/50 chance of being right, statistically. I've got all the points scattered around, I'll see if I can get them all in one post.Your math is incorrect you have a 2/5 chance which equates to 40/60.
Bdthemag, you need to be more active.
breadbocks-I'd like to see all your points for your second scum pick too.Umm... What? I wouldn't be lynched. It would be a no-lynch, which is one of the worst things for town, except in very special cases.You would have been lynched if one person changed their vote, good for you no one did.
Also, I do, in fact have correct math. I know I'm town. The other four, statistically, have a 2 in 4 chance of being scum, or a 1/2 chance, or a 50/100 chance. Therefore, 50/50 chance of scum to not scum. That's how it works.
Breadbocks. Your lurking through D1 riding the UltraValican bandwagon, your failure to keep a straight story, and your WIFOM about the NK all convince me you're scum. Even if it was chaotic, why didn't you put any effort towards questioning even the person you were voting for D1? You knew that your 'theory' about the NK was WIFOM, so why did you bring it up?I didn't question him because I didn't need to. Read back through his posts, and pretend you don't know his alignment. Then come back and tell me he wasn't hemorrhaging scumtells faster than NASCAR goes through a tanker of oil.
Hm? Oh I suppose I have been quiet. Breadbocks is acting scummy, but im going to go with my second scumpick right now.What. I'm sorry, but I'd rather town lose this game than poor play be rampant. Always go for your first scumpick. Always. And quit chainsaw defending me. You just added something onto my case on you.
Again, I really am having time issues. I recognize Max posted his case on me, and I'll respond to that, and post my own case on him if I can fit the time together.
Post by: Darvi on July 08, 2011, 03:36:19 pm
... Um, Darvi? kilakan's post is right there at the top of the page. Has a vote and everything.Bolded excuse for emphasis.
Post by: Max White on July 08, 2011, 05:09:14 pm
That question is horrible. It isn't something even remotely related. Make your case, and quit being defensive, scum.You know what I love, when scum answer themselves. It saves me time.
I recognize Max posted his case on me, and I'll respond to that, and post my own case on him if I can fit the time together.Now...
kilakan: Do you plan on making yourself useful and pulling a case together? Your voting for me, now justify it. Stop riding on Breadbock's coat tails. I want a full report on your top scum pick.
Breadbocks: I recognise that sometimes we all have commitments, but how about you stop making promises and at least make a quick summary like Think's. I can't rip your lies to shreds if your too lazy to post them.
Gentlemen: Would you care to post your second picks, and if possible showing relations to your first pick? I'm currently half way through reading my second pick kilakan's posts, and have yet to comb over both BD and think, but I will post a report soon enough.
Finally, most evidence of breadbocks scummy nature comes out
Rolefishing
Only scum and doctors/cops have reason to lie, and I doubt you are a doctor.Now really, in the given case being the doctor would be totally irrelevant. The only reason you would bring it up is because you want a confession to being the doctor, because that would justify your claims, right? Bullshit. Lazy, scummy attempt at getting me to claim a role by saying that is the only way to justify pushing him.
Post by: webadict on July 08, 2011, 05:26:41 pm
Would you care to post your second picks, and if possible showing relations to your first pick?If I ever catch anyone tying their picks together, I will destroy their soul. You tie people together AFTER one of them is dead. Got it?!? If you tie them together before either is lynched, then you deserve to be smashed in the face repeatedly with molten rocks.
So, let me NEVER EVER catch you saying something stupid like that again, because it's the STUPIDEST thing you can do. Look at connections AFTER scum is lynched.
And by connections, I actually mean lack of connections, since scum hardly ever associate with one another seriously.
Post by: Max White on July 08, 2011, 05:32:30 pm
Fo realz? Well scratch that then. Now I have to reread the thread again.
Post by: webadict on July 08, 2011, 05:49:30 pm
Sup webba.Connections BEFORE someone is lynched leads to forcing people together. This is beneficial to scum, who can play off the tying together to claim buddying if the first person isn't scum or use the second as a tunnel if the first is scum. It's not good in the long run, just as "Lynch me then lynch her" strategies tend to fail hardcore.
Fo realz? Well scratch that then. Now I have to reread the thread again.
Post by: Max White on July 08, 2011, 05:54:06 pm
Post by: Think0028 on July 08, 2011, 07:44:41 pm
Bd: I've been suspecting breadbocks since the opening of D2, and I've provided my reasoning as to why he's scum.
Post by: breadbocks on July 09, 2011, 08:17:10 am
Breadbocks: I recognise that sometimes we all have commitments, but how about you stop making promises and at least make a quick summary like Think's. I can't rip your lies to shreds if your too lazy to post them.First, they aren't my commitments. It's all shit my parents dump on me 24/7 because they're too lazy. I was lucky to find an hour of constant free time yesterday, which I had to spend relaxing before I blew up. Second, there aren't any lies for you to "rip to shreads", because I'm not lying. Also, no. Connecting people until after the fact is only a scum trick.
Gentlemen: Would you care to post your second picks, and if possible showing relations to your first pick? I'm currently half way through reading my second pick kilakan's posts, and have yet to comb over both BD and think, but I will post a report soon enough.
I think I can get a quick and dirty rebuttal to all your arguments before rabid parents descend.
Not answering question
Asking pointless questions: The first was rhetorical, when I posted my reasons for voting you above, and the second was an effective question that just bolstered my case.
Being incredibly defensive: A, I did answer, you just chose to ignore it, and B, you're making bullshit connections between you asking me a question, and me voting you based on evidence I'd gathered so far.
Buddying up to powerful forces: Haha, no. Me saying "This makes me think Vector isn't scum" is not buddying. I gave evidence, however shakey, rather than just go along with what she said. What Bdthemag just did is buddying. He ignored me even though I was his top scumpick.
Lurking: You call it lurking, I call it waiting for UV to explain himself. HE never did.
Rolefishing: No, see, that isn't how rolefishing works. Rolefishing is when you try to get someone to roleclaim, or give away their role. I was stating every single possibility in a BM game for reasons to lie. A cop would lie, so he doesn't get NK'd. The cop was dead. Scum would lie, so they don't get lynched. A doctor would lie so he doesn't get NK'd. I was saying I wouldn't believe you were doctor, and you lied, therefore you are scum.
Think: Because I was focusing on UV. I believe I already answered the NK WIFOM thing, but pressed for time here, so I'll just answer again. I was putting my thoughts where everyone could see them. I didn't change my mind that NK was the worst form of evidence. But it's still food for thought, and eventually you get bowel movement any way you slice it.
Now, I've been in this position before. Me and Max are both digging away at eachother, while the scum is sitting in the background snickering at how well they engineered this situation. But basically, what happened was me and Heliman were convinced the other was scum, one of the scum said "if you really think breadbocks is scum, I'll give you the hammer" and Heliman took the deal. I used my revenge kill on Heliman, town lost. I was really pissed at myself. [Note: It might not have been Heliman, but someone else. I'm just fairly certain it was Heliman.]
Unvote Max.
Let's see. Out of Kilikan, Think, and Bdthemag, one is not like the others. The good news is, the others are the targets.
I think I'll start with Bdthemag. Put everyone into an order of who's scummiest, and give a good explanation.
Post by: kilakan on July 09, 2011, 09:13:16 am
Well your explanation was interesting but you seem to do a hell of a lot of the same things that Breadbock does:
kilakan: Do you plan on making yourself useful and pulling a case together? Your voting for me, now justify it. Stop riding on Breadbock's coat tails. I want a full report on your top scum pick.
Oh ok cause there is definitly a question in there, looks like a random statement which oh look is explained here:Breadbocks: Your first vote onto UltraValican was a RVS vote, and you never pulled it off, or bought new evidence into light. Can you explain your beliefs.I never got an answer to this. I spent a good effort trying to drag out an answer too! I guess that makes bandwagoning another point here, because we just could not get an answer, and the more anybody pushed Breadbocks for it, the more he confused himself.
You also placed this vote as soon as Ultra and Kilakan started into their argument, thus bandwagoning hid as a RVS. Just saying.
While a fucking crappy explanation, what the hell does that make your above point about him not responding?Sigh. LTR doesn't begin to cover this. A vote made during RVS does not equal a RV. A random vote, oddly enough is made randomly, as in, arbitrarily and with no reason. As I clearly provided a reason, what you said is rendered a lie. Only scum and doctors/cops have reason to lie, and I doubt you are a doctor.So it wasn't a random vote, it was chosen and justified right? Breadbocks didn't sort out he's story before hand, and now he's scummy ass will pay for it.
He made a bandwagon vote an is now trying to cover up any way he can by swapping between saying it is and is not a random vote, and he still refuses to address this point.
Asking Subjective questions.Oh ok then, so you contradicting yourself and yet again not actually asking any real questions or pushing for good evidence is you questioning people the entire time eh?Max, when will you start being useful to the town? So far you've been doing just about anything to try and start a vote on somebody.The problem with this question is that it really is as worthwhile as asking when somebody is going to stop drowning kittens, but without clearly being a joke. What do you expect me to do, question people? Well I have been doing that the entire time! Lynch scum? Nobody has yet, so I'm on par. This is just a loaded question, however it's the kind of thing that if scum manages to push really well, they might get a mislynch over.
and then without actually convincing people you immediately move on to this:
Ah yes, because the cop isn't dead, and if there was a doctor he totally hasn't failed miserably at being a bloody doctor. Which leads me to be to think that you purposely overlook things so you can make someone seem scummier then they are. Of course at the time it was bad, but now? Well why the hell didn't you bring it up earlier.That question is horrible. It isn't something even remotely related. Make your case, and quit being defensive, scum.You know what I love, when scum answer themselves. It saves me time.I recognize Max posted his case on me, and I'll respond to that, and post my own case on him if I can fit the time together.Now...
kilakan: Do you plan on making yourself useful and pulling a case together? Your voting for me, now justify it. Stop riding on Breadbock's coat tails. I want a full report on your top scum pick.
Breadbocks: I recognise that sometimes we all have commitments, but how about you stop making promises and at least make a quick summary like Think's. I can't rip your lies to shreds if your too lazy to post them.
Gentlemen: Would you care to post your second picks, and if possible showing relations to your first pick? I'm currently half way through reading my second pick kilakan's posts, and have yet to comb over both BD and think, but I will post a report soon enough.
Finally, most evidence of breadbocks scummy nature comes out
RolefishingOnly scum and doctors/cops have reason to lie, and I doubt you are a doctor.Now really, in the given case being the doctor would be totally irrelevant. The only reason you would bring it up is because you want a confession to being the doctor, because that would justify your claims, right? Bullshit. Lazy, scummy attempt at getting me to claim a role by saying that is the only way to justify pushing him.
Gentlemen: Would you care to post your second picks, and if possible showing relations to your first pick? I'm currently half way through reading my second pick kilakan's posts, and have yet to comb over both BD and think, but I will post a report soon enough.Oh ok then you were halfway done, oh look yesterday. Give me some fucking evidence or ask a fucking relevant question instead of just repeating the lines "He doesn't answer me whaaaa" and "Post your second picks NAOW" You're a fucking broken record, which makes me think that you are trying to get someone lynched for your own gain.
So that's why my vote is still on you, but frankly you aren't my top concern, don't flatter yourself I doubt I'm gonna be lynching you tonight, sadly no one else is really posting or in your case, making a convincing reason for a scum pick.
Now on to Breadbocks:
First, they aren't my commitments. It's all shit my parents dump on me 24/7 because they're too lazy. I was lucky to find an hour of constant free time yesterday, which I had to spend relaxing before I blew up.Why when I read this I picture you in a grungy work outfit in the movie cinderella being worked by two evil people. Oh right because for all I know both of them are complete Fiction. You know what, if you're too damn busy working in a sweatshop then maybe you shouldn't have signed up cause I know that parents don't suddenly change if they work you 24/7 you little fucking whiner.
Second, there aren't any lies for you to "rip to shreads", because I'm not lying. Also, no. Connecting people until after the fact is only a scum trick.oh ya cause you can easily prove that when you say there are no lies, that that is not also a lie. The second part makes no sense, someone above you said connecting people after one is dead is fine, so what do you fucking mean?
I think I can get a quick and dirty rebuttal to all your arguments before rabid parents descend.It's pretty hard to miss three keys, and besides they change the meaning correctly, or should I assume that when you say I CAN NOT LIE it's the truth.
Not answering questions: In fact, I only missed one, and I replied when I was told I missed it. Also, you decided to put my 3 charater typo in this section for some reason. I missed the n key, the ' key, and the t key, and I get people riding my back for it.
Lurking: You call it lurking, I call it waiting for UV to explain himself. HE never did.That is lurking, atleast attempt to go after someone else, especially since you were so adamant that it was a RVS.
Now, I've been in this position before. Me and Max are both digging away at eachother, while the scum is sitting in the background snickering at how well they engineered this situation. But basically, what happened was me and Heliman were convinced the other was scum, one of the scum said "if you really think breadbocks is scum, I'll give you the hammer" and Heliman took the deal. I used my revenge kill on Heliman, town lost. I was really pissed at myself. [Note: It might not have been Heliman, but someone else. I'm just fairly certain it was Heliman.]That is a lot of irrelevant information. You either suck or you are scum backed into a corner.
Unvote Max.Oh look reactive unvote when pushed, without reasons guess you must be scum if you are really pissing yourself that bad. Or did someone hyjack your account and make you do it.
Let's see. Out of Kilikan, Think, and Bdthemag, one is not like the others. The good news is, the others are the targets.Oh oh I love this game. No actually I don't it fucking pisses me off when someone tries to make others guess what they are trying to say, because it leaves a big fucking loophole for you to escape through if someone calls you on it.
I think I'll start with Bdthemag. Put everyone into an order of who's scummiest, and give a good explanation.
breadbocks: You avoid my point that you weren't doing anything about anyone else either. Why not ask other people questions? Why no observations on other people? If you didn't have observations, why didn't you do anything to get more information? And there's still the question of why you discussed the NK at all if it was WIFOM, which you totally avoided as well. Yes, I see you decided to leave it in the post. Why did you? At one point, you said that the NK was the worst form of evidence. Why did you change your mind?Ah yes because you are doing a whole lot else about other people by asking breadbocks two questions and BD one over the course of what two days?
Bd: I've been suspecting breadbocks since the opening of D2, and I've provided my reasoning as to why he's scum.oh good you have been have you? Well you utterly failed to convince anyone else or even bring up a decent arguement as to why. Sure you explained yourself you just didn't bother to fucking do shit all once everyone accepted your explanation.
Ok thanks! I was just thinking that we could assume that who ever we lynch today will be scum, because otherwise we don't get a second pick, but I can see how it might mess up today.Don't fucking assume shit. That's how ultravalican died. He was totally scum so assuming obviously worked there eh?
Hm? Oh I suppose I have been quiet. Breadbocks is acting scummy, but im going to go with my second scumpick right now.Oh ok then he acts scummy so you can't be assed to bother calling him on it or explaining why then?
Think you seem to have not been in any big arguements involving anyone, as a matter of fact I don't remember you in anything special besides a few remarks about who's scummy every once in awhile. Why so quick to jump the Breadbocks bandwagon, care to find something against him that wasn't already brought up?
Think!-Respond to the fucking above statement and vote by BD
Post by: breadbocks on July 09, 2011, 09:36:28 am
That post is such an utter mess. Get your English together, and actually read before you post something as absurd as that. Yes, in fact, there is house work that my parents should be taking a share in, and yes they are dumping every bit of it on me. I'm only even on right now because they aren't aware that I'm awake yet. Now, make it readable, and I'll actually think about reading it.
Post by: kilakan on July 09, 2011, 09:57:21 am
....Well to bad. So you are on now but all you do is make crappy excuses as to why you are not on the rest of the time?
That post is such an utter mess. Get your English together, and actually read before you post something as absurd as that. Yes, in fact, there is house work that my parents should be taking a share in, and yes they are dumping every bit of it on me. I'm only even on right now because they aren't aware that I'm awake yet. Now, make it readable, and I'll actually think about reading it.
Post by: breadbocks on July 09, 2011, 10:25:11 am
That post was both so horribly written and horribly scummy I'm not even going to take the time to mess with quotes.
First off, let me be very, very, very clear. Not all of us are 8 years old, with parents who go out of their way to buy you ice cream. Some of us have jobs, others have unexpected stuff going on which results in more work. Get used to real people being real people. I've been bending over backwards trying to get this game done.
Second, I implore you all to look back over what you all call me not getting my story straight. Out of half a dozen posts, exactly one wasn't me being adamant about it being a non random vote. No waffling was happening, no me changing my mind mind game. I missed a few keys while typing. Here's another thing for you to wrap your 8 year old mind around. Some of us touch type, which means they don't look at the keyboard, which means if they miss keys, they won't know unless they go through the pain to read over every word.
Third, that attack on Max was so horribly worded I can't make heads or tails out of it. Make your point, and quit spamming to make your 100 words look larger.
Fourth, it is actually quite relevant information. It describes exactly the sort of situation, and thus my reason for unvoting Max, which you so selectively decided to ignore.
Fifth, that unvote is nothing near folding when pushed. I've been pressing Max for the larger parts of two days. It also has a reason, but you decided to ignore it because you think it makes me look worse when put like that. In fact, it makes you look worse, because it's an outright lie.
Sixth, I was quite clear about what was being said. Out of the three, one was not scum. That means the larger group is the target.
So, Kilikan, that's quite a bit to answer for, and that's just from one post. Go hang, scum.
Post by: breadbocks on July 09, 2011, 10:26:36 am
Post by: Darvi on July 09, 2011, 10:36:00 am
Post by: kilakan on July 09, 2011, 11:29:41 am
OK, just forged through the post, and wow. Unvote Bthemag. Vote Kilikan.Wow really? That's just terribly bad. So you won't back up your arguments with proof?
That post was both so horribly written and horribly scummy I'm not even going to take the time to mess with quotes.
First off, let me be very, very, very clear. Not all of us are 8 years old, with parents who go out of their way to buy you ice cream. Some of us have jobs, others have unexpected stuff going on which results in more work. Get used to real people being real people. I've been bending over backwards trying to get this game done.Well that would be funny if I wasn't 22 myself. So you've been trying to work hard a getting the game done, don't make excuses for yourself every three seconds just deal with it. My point is that if you have a job and parents who are reportedly so lazy then you shouldn't have signed up, not use it as an excuse to worm your way out of everything.
Second, I implore you all to look back over what you all call me not getting my story straight. Out of half a dozen posts, exactly one wasn't me being adamant about it being a non random vote. No waffling was happening, no me changing my mind mind game. I missed a few keys while typing. Here's another thing for you to wrap your 8 year old mind around. Some of us touch type, which means they don't look at the keyboard, which means if they miss keys, they won't know unless they go through the pain to read over every word.I never called you on not having your story straight, that was max. My point was that you can't just say that you missed a few keys and use that as an excuse to change your whole idea.
I touch type, I also read over what I wrote to make sure something like that doesn't happen. Sure my grammar isn't very good, and the way I talk is weird. I'm just not all that great at English, I never have been. I also use a lot of slang due to where I grew up so if you can't deal with me saying bloody or something every once in a while, then you can shove it.
Third, that attack on Max was so horribly worded I can't make heads or tails out of it. Make your point, and quit spamming to make your 100 words look larger.You know if you used some quotes this might make sense. But let me explain to you how to read the fucking post.
Every sentence is talking about the above quote, it's not that hard to figure out.
Fourth, it is actually quite relevant information. It describes exactly the sort of situation, and thus my reason for unvoting Max, which you so selectively decided to ignore.I have no idea what part of it you are talking about.
If you mean your reactions to what he said about you? That's not a reason to call off your attack on him.
If you mean what happened in another game once? Ya that is useless information, because it was another game. You can take the idea for it and try to learn what to do different, but it can't be used to remove a vote from someone in this game just because the situation is similar.
Fifth, that unvote is nothing near folding when pushed. I've been pressing Max for the larger parts of two days. It also has a reason, but you decided to ignore it because you think it makes me look worse when put like that. In fact, it makes you look worse, because it's an outright lie.I've read everything you said in the post you unvoted him a half dozen times now, and I still fail to see a valid reason to just fold. Quote me the reason, explain the reason and then I can say it wasn't a folding unvote.
Sixth, I was quite clear about what was being said. Out of the three, one was not scum. That means the larger group is the target.So you are so certain about the other person you can safely say he isn't scum? There's only two possible ways that you could be sure of that, one is he is a scum buddy of yours, and the other is that you pm'ed each other which is against the rules. SO calling three people scum at once while saying the person you seemingly unvoted for no reason other then a hypothetical situation is not clear. It also makes you seem scummy.
So, Kilikan, that's quite a bit to answer for, and that's just from one post. Go hang, scum.
Also I have to go to work pretty soon, that's a large part of the reason the post was rushed, but yes I admit that I should have made it clearer for someone like you.
Post by: kilakan on July 09, 2011, 11:33:14 am
Post by: Vector on July 09, 2011, 01:49:37 pm
Also, if an IC could tell me how I could go about improving how I put my arguments, that'd be wonderful.
In general, breathe first, inhale, exhale, and don't insult people unless you're trying to get them to do something.
Being just plain pissed off is not good for you, scum or town. It looks like a defense mechanism.
One of your goals should be to dismantle all defense mechanisms other than cool, calm logic. Attack mechanisms can be far more varied, however. The line between attack and defense is also debatable.
Post by: Jim Groovester on July 09, 2011, 03:38:12 pm
Well to bad. So you are on now but all you do is make crappy excuses as to why you are not on the rest of the time?
Quit giving people shit for not participating as much as you.
People have stuff to do that isn't arguing with assholes on the Internet all day long, and you haven't been the pinnacle of participation in this game either.
I'll look over the rest of the stuff later. Good to see that people are finally taking lylo seriously.
Post by: kilakan on July 09, 2011, 04:15:26 pm
Post by: Jim Groovester on July 09, 2011, 04:26:32 pm
You're a fucking broken record, which makes me think that you are trying to get someone lynched for your own gain.
Wanting someone lynched isn't scummy.
Or did someone hyjack your account and make you do it.
This is vitriol that adds nothing to your attack and is just you being a douche. Leave the crankiness to Vector.
Ya Jim it's not the inactivity, it's the constant excuses as to why. I swear he spends half his time typing excuses as to why he doesn't type more.
I don't care. People have lives and you giving them shit for it is not cool.
Also, if an IC could tell me how I could go about improving how I put my arguments, that'd be wonderful.
If you're responding to a wall of text it's going to be messy no matter what you do. When presenting your own arguments, just find the strongest examples of what you're accusing a player of and a brief summary why. If your evidence is any good it should speak for itself. If it doesn't, try to be more convincing.
And what Vector said. Being calm all the time is a very useful skill for a new player to have. I should say, presenting yourself as calm all the time. You can be raging as much as you want as long as it doesn't come out into how you look.
In general, to everybody, you shouldn't get so worked up over arguing with another player that you lose sight of everyone else.
Post by: Max White on July 09, 2011, 07:40:18 pm
Oh ok cause there is definitly a question in there, looks like a random statement which oh look is explained here:Nice post trimming there, bro. I like how you cut off the part where breadbocks contradicts himself. Your taking my words way out of context by removing important quotes from breadbocks. Scum thing to do. If breadbocks answers a question in two ways, then he has hardly answered at all.While a fucking crappy explanation, what the hell does that make your above point about him not responding?Sigh. LTR doesn't begin to cover this. A vote made during RVS does not equal a RV. A random vote, oddly enough is made randomly, as in, arbitrarily and with no reason. As I clearly provided a reason, what you said is rendered a lie. Only scum and doctors/cops have reason to lie, and I doubt you are a doctor.So it wasn't a random vote, it was chosen and justified right? Breadbocks didn't sort out he's story before hand, and now he's scummy ass will pay for it.
He made a bandwagon vote an is now trying to cover up any way he can by swapping between saying it is and is not a random vote, and he still refuses to address this point.
Oh ok then, so you contradicting yourself and yet again not actually asking any real questions or pushing for good evidence is you questioning people the entire time eh?Engrish, broken! Translation request.
and then without actually convincing people you immediately move on to this:Where to start on this...
Firstly, no, I did not 'immediately move on', there were other points you didn't even try to address. And hell, even when I did move on I noticed something new and added it in. I haven't really 'moved on' at all, just finished summarising my points.
But that's small fries. You claimed that 'and then without actually convincing people', but what gives you the right to speak for everybody? Hell, think seems to agree with me, so that is at least one person, and BD said that
Hm? Oh I suppose I have been quiet. Breadbocks is acting scummy, but im going to go with my second scumpick right now.So it looks like everybody agrees with me to some level except you and Breadbocks. Not only did you try to claim the voice of the group, but very much falsely. Some what scummy of you.
Ah yes, because the cop isn't dead, and if there was a doctor he totally hasn't failed miserably at being a bloody doctor. Which leads me to be to think that you purposely overlook things so you can make someone seem scummier then they are. Of course at the time it was bad, but now? Well why the hell didn't you bring it up earlier.Dude, the chances of the doc making a protect are fairly low when they are playing hit and miss. The doc was first put into mafia so that the cop could claim and still be safe, unless the mafia got lucky. It isn't exactly reasonable to expect them to have saved people after only two NKs.
Although now that things are a little might tight, the chances of them making a save increase, and they become useful enough that the mafia would want them dead more than ever. Scum's gonna role hunt when they thing they have a chance, no matter how much you undermine the townie roles.
And I didn't bring it up earlier because I didn't notice earlier. Scum can be subtle, not my fault if I don't see everything first time over, but it is my fault if I don't bother to read over it again to pick up anything I missed.
Oh ok then you were halfway done, oh look yesterday. Give me some fucking evidence or ask a fucking relevant question instead of just repeating the lines "He doesn't answer me whaaaa" and "Post your second picks NAOW" You're a fucking broken record, which makes me think that you are trying to get someone lynched for your own gain....
You wanted me to go back over my reasons. If I sound like a broken record it is because you can't seem to understand that arguments carry over to the next day and I'm trying to accommodate you. Also, what is wrong with asking for second picks in lylo? I only asked once even, not like a 'broken record' like you seem to think. Having people go over their second picks will at very least ensure everybody is looking at more than one person, and is least likely to tunnel.
Everybody: Now, I would like to draw attention to something rather big that you might have missed. Look at my case on Breadbocks, then look at Kilikans case on me. Notice the biggest difference between them?
My evidence was from the entire game, both d1 and d2, with nothing from today because Breadbocks had done very little at that point.
Kilikans evidence was taken all from a single post, after he voted.
Townies look for scum, form a case, then vote and present, but Kilakan voted and then tried to justify it. He didn't feel obliged to share any evidence from before he voted, just try and pull together an argument afterwards when he was pressed for one.
As such, Kilikan, you have given yourself away.
Post by: Max White on July 09, 2011, 07:58:27 pm
First, they aren't my commitments. It's all shit my parents dump on me 24/7 because they're too lazy. I was lucky to find an hour of constant free time yesterday, which I had to spend relaxing before I blew up.I hope they stitched you back together well. :P
Second, there aren't any lies for you to "rip to shreads", because I'm not lying.In a game where we can't realy take each other on our words, saying your not lying doesn't mean much.
Also, no. Connecting people until after the fact is only a scum trick.Yea, webba addressed that. My mistake, I figured a connection would make for a strong case, but guess not.
Not answering questionNo realy, I'm still not 100% sure if your vote on Ultra was a random vote or not. I think I have put together that it was not a random vote, and then you didn't feel it was required that you push from there, right? Any given answer has just been to vague to be sure.s: In fact, I only missed one, and I replied when I was told I missed it. Also, you decided to put my 3 charater typo in this section for some reason. I missed the n key, the ' key, and the t key, and I get people riding my back for it.
Asking pointless questions: The first was rhetorical, when I posted my reasons for voting you above, and the second was an effective question that just bolstered my case....
Yea, when a question s clearly loaded, it was rhetorical. I see.
Being incredibly defensive: A, I did answer, you just chose to ignore it, and B, you're making bullshit connections between you asking me a question, and me voting you based on evidence I'd gathered so far.You showed no interest in me until I started to press you. Maybe if you had tried to make some of a case on me before I started on you, this would have more merit.
Buddying up to powerful forces: Haha, no. Me saying "This makes me think Vector isn't scum" is not buddying. I gave evidence, however shakey, rather than just go along with what she said. What Bdthemag just did is buddying. He ignored me even though I was his top scumpick.Trying to redirect attention at Bd, noted.
Lurking: You call it lurking, I call it waiting for UV to explain himself. HE never did.He seemed to respond to anything I asked him. If you wanted explanations, perhaps you should have started with questions?
Rolefishing: No, see, that isn't how rolefishing works. Rolefishing is when you try to get someone to roleclaim, or give away their role. I was stating every single possibility in a BM game for reasons to lie. A cop would lie, so he doesn't get NK'd. The cop was dead. Scum would lie, so they don't get lynched. A doctor would lie so he doesn't get NK'd. I was saying I wouldn't believe you were doctor, and you lied, therefore you are scum.But this had nothing to do with the role of the doc, you just dragged it in claiming it was justification for lying. No, it is notjustification for any lies, just covering up your role. By trying to assert that I was lying and this was ok only if I was the doc, you were fishing for me to say I was the doc as justification for pressing.
Now, I've been in this position before. Me and Max are both digging away at eachother, while the scum is sitting in the background snickering at how well they engineered this situation. But basically, what happened was me and Heliman were convinced the other was scum, one of the scum said "if you really think breadbocks is scum, I'll give you the hammer" and Heliman took the deal. I used my revenge kill on Heliman, town lost. I was really pissed at myself. [Note: It might not have been Heliman, but someone else. I'm just fairly certain it was Heliman.]This can be read two ways, the first is 'I won't tunnel you and keep scum hunting, if you don't tunnel me and keep scum hunting' and is a very townie was of thinking, the other is 'I'll unvote you if you unvote me' and is extremely scummy. Trying to guess between them would just come down to WIFOM, but the underlying message is the truth, so reguardless of intention that I'm not going to guess at, this is good advice.
Unvote Max.
Post by: Max White on July 09, 2011, 08:27:42 pm
Vote UltraValican[/color]Here's the vote, just so we have some context
so I'd like to ask
UltraValican-Why would you vote me, what are your reasons?
[/color]kikilan What did you think of vectors nice little tutorial on mafia, and particularly his tone on suggesting that you might be of an alignment that wants to hinder the town(scum basically)?Defencive much? Ultra pushed for a reaction to Vector's accusations, and Kilakan retaliates with a vote back that sat on the bandwagon untill Ultra was lynched.
From then on he did little to push Ultra, or did less of anything else. That was he's day 1.
Care to guess what he did d2? Just that. He sunk an axe into Bd and didn't look at anybody else. He even demanded I prove he was a townie.MaxWhite-How would you avoid detection as a Scum, if you plan on taking out the lurkers at night?Have an axe to grind. Try to get a reason to begrudge a player, then focus everything you have at them, even if nobody else is going to vote them. That way you have a reason to not vote for anybody else, including your mafia friends.
Hey what gives you the idea he's town, give me a few examples of where he proves himself.My reply, for context
How about because he hasn't done anything that scummy. I mean really, when I thought it was about powder I was just pointing out that it looked scumy without suspecting you at all, but your asking me to prove bd is townie? Hell no, prove to me he is scum! I think he is townie, so show me otherwise if you want a lynch, because calling everybody who doesn't see the world the same way as you scum is a rather scummy act. Fear tactics are scum moves.And he's reply
Perfectly valid answers, as for the fear tactic? No I use it more as a pressure/aggressive move to judge a players reactions under stress. Not always is the fear tactic I sometimes use directed to the person I'm talking to, it makes a useful lure for potential bandwagoners too.I call bullshit. Your not 'judge a players reactions under stress', your covering up after I call you out on something scummy.
onto day 3, and I have already covered most of it.
Holy hell of a pointless question bro.Yea, it was a pointless question, put only there with the hope that it would get a smile. Were playing a game, I would like to think we can laugh at a joke or two. My vote was on Breadbocks the prior day, that was just putting it back on after night time... But somehow you feel it is an issue? Why?
MaxWhiteScared to reexplain yourself? I'd like you to bring up as many points for yourself as to why you are not scum.
Afraid to explain myself? Yea, terrified, because if I have to explain myself again I will sound like a broken record.
Post by: Think0028 on July 10, 2011, 01:56:54 am
1) A failure to convince anyone else
2) Bought by everyone else
3) Lacking a 'decent example'
Not only is this contradictory (I convinced no one but everyone accepted it?), it's extremely incomplete. Any care to show how it's not a decent argument?
You also accuse me of 'asking breadbocks 2 questions and Bd one over the course of two days'. Presuming you're referring to real life days and not mafia days, why yes, I used the time I had for posting to grill my main suspect. And I suppose if you reduce each of my posts to one question, then yes, I did ask 'only 2' questions.
How about you? Your first post this day was voting Max with 'tell me why you aren't scum', instead of presenting actual evidence. Considering that in your previous post Max wasn't in your scumlist at all, I'd like to know what changed your mind.
Also, no, I'm not going to change how I post for you. I hate reading long walls of text, and I don't want to force anyone else to read them.
breadbocks: Hrm. Looking over the posts with 'contradictory story', it's obvious in retrospect that you made a typo. One more question. Why did you leave the out when you were questioning Max about his supposed lies of him being a doctor?
Post by: TolyK on July 10, 2011, 11:28:20 am
I'm actually surprised that nobody tried to vote for me or TolyK :VSame. :D
Oh, okay then, so you're contradicting yourself. Are the acts of not asking any real questions and pushing for good evidence really questioning people the entire time? Eh?Oh ok then, so you contradicting yourself and yet again not actually asking any real questions or pushing for good evidence is you questioning people the entire time eh?Engrish, broken! Translation request.
:P
Post by: Max White on July 10, 2011, 01:51:42 pm
It would strategically unwise to lynch either of you today, as you are both clearly so incompetent to preform basic scum duty, that there is a good chance that tonight you will forget to send in the nk. Lynch you tomorrow. :PI'm actually surprised that nobody tried to vote for me or TolyK :VSame. :D
Thank you.Oh, okay then, so you're contradicting yourself. Are the acts of not asking any real questions and pushing for good evidence really questioning people the entire time? Eh?Oh ok then, so you contradicting yourself and yet again not actually asking any real questions or pushing for good evidence is you questioning people the entire time eh?Engrish, broken! Translation request.
:P
Add to the kilikan case
Asking loaded questions
Question implies that I haven't been asking good questions and pushing well, so their is a connotation that I am mafia from the start, and a scum move. He didn't make a real reply, just implied something else. I have been asking good questions and pushing kilikan, regardless of how you try to mislead others.
Also interesting to note that he is trying to chainsaw the integrity of my argument against breadbocks, while attacking breadbocks himself. Makes me wonder if he realy thinks bread is scum and he is scumhunting, or if he is trying a distancing act.
Mods: Time before day ends? Things are starting to warm up, don't want a sudden halt now.
Post by: Darvi on July 10, 2011, 01:53:05 pm
Post by: Jim Groovester on July 10, 2011, 03:05:08 pm
Post by: Darvi on July 10, 2011, 03:08:34 pm
He totally deserved that domination.
Post by: Bdthemag on July 10, 2011, 03:19:22 pm
Unvote, Vote Kilikan your generally asking bullshit questions, and jumping to conclusions really fast. Care to give us actual good reasons why you think someones scum besides "Hurr durr because he got mad at me.".
Post by: breadbocks on July 10, 2011, 03:23:16 pm
First, covering up your role *is* lying. It might not be harmful to town lying, but it's still lying.Rolefishing: No, see, that isn't how rolefishing works. Rolefishing is when you try to get someone to roleclaim, or give away their role. I was stating every single possibility in a BM game for reasons to lie. A cop would lie, so he doesn't get NK'd. The cop was dead. Scum would lie, so they don't get lynched. A doctor would lie so he doesn't get NK'd. I was saying I wouldn't believe you were doctor, and you lied, therefore you are scum.But this had nothing to do with the role of the doc, you just dragged it in claiming it was justification for lying. No, it is notjustification for any lies, just covering up your role. By trying to assert that I was lying and this was ok only if I was the doc, you were fishing for me to say I was the doc as justification for pressing.Now, I've been in this position before. Me and Max are both digging away at eachother, while the scum is sitting in the background snickering at how well they engineered this situation. But basically, what happened was me and Heliman were convinced the other was scum, one of the scum said "if you really think breadbocks is scum, I'll give you the hammer" and Heliman took the deal. I used my revenge kill on Heliman, town lost. I was really pissed at myself. [Note: It might not have been Heliman, but someone else. I'm just fairly certain it was Heliman.]This can be read two ways, the first is 'I won't tunnel you and keep scum hunting, if you don't tunnel me and keep scum hunting' and is a very townie was of thinking, the other is 'I'll unvote you if you unvote me' and is extremely scummy. Trying to guess between them would just come down to WIFOM, but the underlying message is the truth, so reguardless of intention that I'm not going to guess at, this is good advice.
Unvote Max.
Second, it's a "We've both been busting our asses scumhunting eachother, which is the best and one of the only reliable way to identify who is pro-town. Since we're both town, no point attacking eachother till scum wins."
breadbocks: Hrm. Looking over the posts with 'contradictory story', it's obvious in retrospect that you made a typo. One more question. Why did you leave the out when you were questioning Max about his supposed lies of him being a doctor?If you mean my choice of the article 'a' instead of 'the', it was because every doctor has had a reason to lie, and will continue to have a reason to lie. It is understood there can only be one doctor in this game, or else I would have specified. 'A' was also the proper form to use, since earlier in the post I referred to doctors/cops plural, I believe. Anyways, it's semantics that doesn't matter.
Post by: Jim Groovester on July 10, 2011, 03:47:25 pm
I guess what I meant to say is that im the biggest fucking procrastinator you'll ever meet.
Of course. That makes it all better. I've repeatedly told you that you actually have to make an effort to play the game, so it's good to see you completely blowing off everything I've said at every opportunity.
You don't really want to play this game, do you? If you don't want to play, you can ask for a replacement and leave.
I'd prefer you be honest and tell me that, instead of telling me that you do want to play and doing exactly everything to make it look like you don't.
Post by: Darvi on July 11, 2011, 06:21:06 am
kilakan -3- Max White, bdthemag, breadbocks
Max White -1- kilakan
breadbocks -1- Think0028
Day ends in 10h40m.
2 votes to extend, 3 to shorten, no hammer!
Post by: TolyK on July 11, 2011, 08:22:54 am
Darvi I must thank you.
Also just a note that you might wanna claim at LyLo, right Vector/Mr. Groovester? Or am I doing something stupid again...?
Post by: Vector on July 11, 2011, 09:16:08 am
Just... yeah. Cop's dead, not worth it.
Especially because the doctor (if one exists) would be self-revealing just to be knocked off.
Post by: Darvi on July 11, 2011, 05:37:41 pm
After another day of heated discussion, the Mint Citizens came to a conclusion. Kilakan has to go.
As Max grabbed him from behind, breadbocks reached for a can.
Is that what I think it is? Kilakan asks.
Yes. breadbocks answers. He opens he can.
This is a can. He opened it.
You killed its father. He empties its contents on the floor.
Prepare to die. He put several packs of baking powder in it.
Oh, so we're going the ironic death route now? Kilikan remarks, failing to sound sarcastic.
Yep. Max answers.
And your buddy is next. He adds, glaring at breadbocks as the latter shoved the can into the hapless scoop.
After a few seconds of fizzing, kilakan exploded into tiny, sticcky, green gibs.
...
You! Max shouted as he pointed his finger towards breadbocks.
I knew you were a murderer! I shoulda have known!
Shut up you fucking liar! breadbocks shouts back.
You were voting for him after he voted for you! You knew he was onto you!
Says the guy who bandwagonned on him after his death was assured! Max answers. Now die!
And then they fight. Fists into face, knees into stomachs.
Teeth got knocked out, green blood was spilt.
Green?
After a few minutes of beatings, the two quarrelers noticed this little fact.
What...? You...? breadbocks panted.
Of course... what did you idiot expect...?
Clap.
Clap.
Clap.
As the two last scoops of Mint turned towards the source of the clapping, they saw bdthemag standing there.
Very good, you two! He says with a smirk.
Thank you for doing the dirty work for us. Darvi?
I'm on it, Tolyk.
And behind them there stood Think0028, calmly munching on some cookies.
For our dead friends, he said as he marched towards the Mints.
For our killed families, bdthemag continues.
For vanilla town! Think finishes as he cuts his victims with the tasty, delicious, godlike, and... oh wait I'm ranting am I?
Basically he kills them with his trademark cookies.
You coming? Tolyk asks after getting rid of his disguise.
Soon, Darvi answers as he sticks his finger into the green juice and starts writing on the whiteboard.
And then, the two left the city, not once turning their back.
As Max grabbed him from behind, breadbocks reached for a can.
Is that what I think it is? Kilakan asks.
Yes. breadbocks answers. He opens he can.
This is a can. He opened it.
You killed its father. He empties its contents on the floor.
Prepare to die. He put several packs of baking powder in it.
Oh, so we're going the ironic death route now? Kilikan remarks, failing to sound sarcastic.
Yep. Max answers.
And your buddy is next. He adds, glaring at breadbocks as the latter shoved the can into the hapless scoop.
After a few seconds of fizzing, kilakan exploded into tiny, sticcky, green gibs.
...
You! Max shouted as he pointed his finger towards breadbocks.
I knew you were a murderer! I shoulda have known!
Shut up you fucking liar! breadbocks shouts back.
You were voting for him after he voted for you! You knew he was onto you!
Says the guy who bandwagonned on him after his death was assured! Max answers. Now die!
And then they fight. Fists into face, knees into stomachs.
Teeth got knocked out, green blood was spilt.
Green?
After a few minutes of beatings, the two quarrelers noticed this little fact.
What...? You...? breadbocks panted.
Of course... what did you idiot expect...?
Clap.
Clap.
Clap.
As the two last scoops of Mint turned towards the source of the clapping, they saw bdthemag standing there.
Very good, you two! He says with a smirk.
Thank you for doing the dirty work for us. Darvi?
I'm on it, Tolyk.
And behind them there stood Think0028, calmly munching on some cookies.
For our dead friends, he said as he marched towards the Mints.
For our killed families, bdthemag continues.
For vanilla town! Think finishes as he cuts his victims with the tasty, delicious, godlike, and... oh wait I'm ranting am I?
Basically he kills them with his trademark cookies.
You coming? Tolyk asks after getting rid of his disguise.
Soon, Darvi answers as he sticks his finger into the green juice and starts writing on the whiteboard.
And then, the two left the city, not once turning their back.
Kilakan has exploded! He was a regular Mint Citizen!
Think0028(Darvi) and bdthemag(Tolyk) have killed breadbocks and Max White (Mint Citiztens) and won the game.
Whiteboard
kilakan -3- Max White, bdthemag, breadbocks
Max White -1- kilakan
breadbocks -1- Think0028
breadbocks&Max -2- Darvi, Tolyk
Scumchat (http://www.quicktopic.com/46/H/yxkrEwQcp4GS)
Deadchat (http://www.quicktopic.com/46/H/QtZw3ZhZLmX)
- bdthemag (mafioso
- think0028 (roleblocker): You are DARVI. You used to be a scoop of Vanilla, but you have been upgraded, become stronger. Now you are a SCOOP OF COOKIE DOUGH ICE CREAM. Once per night, you can roleblock a player using your
Post by: Think0028 on July 11, 2011, 05:40:07 pm
Post by: Darvi on July 11, 2011, 05:41:09 pm
Post by: Vector on July 11, 2011, 05:47:23 pm
Last. Fucking. Time. One day time limit, and that's it. They're swinging or being replaced.
RAAAAAWWWWGH.
(For reference, I had something in the back of my head saying "there's something wrong with Think and BD, and you're wrong about Breadbocks" for pretty much all of D2.
I'll also add that this is a reason not to wear down other people to the absolute bone and attempt to "break" them. Doesn't leave them much energy to help the town out scumhunting)
Quote
You know, sooner or later Vector is going to get lynched. She is way to aggressive, and a few player's are going to think that means she's scum. Well atleast thats how I imagine it would happen.
Also, no. Try again, scumbags. I'm hardly ever lynched, and my scumdar is usually at at least 66% accuracy D1, even when I'm mostly out of practice.
My main issue is second-guessing myself and giving people free rides because I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings.
Gotta fucking stop that.
Also, I'm in as IC for the next game :I
Post by: Think0028 on July 11, 2011, 05:56:32 pm
Post by: Jim Groovester on July 11, 2011, 05:59:48 pm
Wooooo! First scum game and first scum victory!
This is going down in your meta file.
Tends to be unnervingly quiet when scum.
Congratulations, scumteam.
Post by: Vector on July 11, 2011, 06:01:44 pm
Post by: Darvi on July 11, 2011, 06:03:44 pm
Post by: breadbocks on July 11, 2011, 06:08:03 pm
Also, I've gotta ask. How'd you get the idea I was Doc, scumteam? Me saying I wouldn't believe Max roleclaiming it? As far as I'm concerned, there's never a reason to trust a plain doc roleclaim. A cop roleclaim is fine, since the doc can protect him, and in BM there's no town-friendly NK, so there would be nothing lost. A doc would either be scum, or a legit one would get NK'd and there would be nothing he could do about it. There's no reason for a doc to roleclaim, at least in this variant, so I wouldn't believe it.
Post by: Darvi on July 11, 2011, 06:08:54 pm
Post by: breadbocks on July 11, 2011, 06:11:42 pm
Post by: Think0028 on July 11, 2011, 06:12:50 pm
Post by: Darvi on July 11, 2011, 06:14:30 pm
Post by: UltraValican on July 11, 2011, 06:18:54 pm
Post by: Darvi on July 11, 2011, 06:19:48 pm
I also highly suggest to the town to read through the scumchat. After all the entire point for having a Scum IC was to teach the newbies how to play as Mafia, so that's a good thing to read through.
Post by: IronyOwl on July 11, 2011, 06:21:31 pm
Should be tons of it in Fridgehalla now...Aaaaaaand there's your flavor for the next one.
Post by: Darvi on July 11, 2011, 06:25:28 pm
Post by: IronyOwl on July 11, 2011, 06:26:01 pm
Post by: Think0028 on July 11, 2011, 06:32:05 pm
Re: lurking, yeah, I might've held off posting as much as I usually do, but I still tried to keep to a one/day posting amount. I wasn't confident enough in my abilities to keep cloaking my intentions with multiple posts/day. The few times I really slacked off were due to outside work/sickness crunches. And then there was that notable bit where some 4 pages got posted between 7 PM and noon the next day. I really could not have done anything about that.
And another thing: yes, people should keep an eye out for sideliners more. I got asked what? One, two questions the entire game? Jim was the only guy to call me out for not getting into the thick of things, Bd (my scumbuddy) tossed me an easy question, and Kilakan just asked me to answer it again. I didn't once get asked a substantial question.
Still, fun game, and I'm glad I got to be scum. Although goddamn do I not like being scum. Looking good is a lot harder on me than being good.
Post by: Darvi on July 11, 2011, 06:34:46 pm
Although goddamn do I not like being scum. Looking good is a lot harder on me than being good.Really? I find the opposite to be quite true. Must be because Sense Motive is wisdom based (dump stat), while Diplomacy and Bluff are Charisma and Intelligence based (my best and second best stats, respectively).
Post by: Think0028 on July 11, 2011, 06:38:57 pm
Although goddamn do I not like being scum. Looking good is a lot harder on me than being good.Really? I find the opposite to be quite true. Must be because Sense Motive is wisdom based (dump stat), while Diplomacy and Bluff are Charisma and Intelligence based (my best and second best stats, respectively).
Diplomacy is an awfully large part of being town, y'know. And man, I really need to boost my WIS. Right now I favor Knowledge (Mafia) for my skill checks.
Post by: Vector on July 11, 2011, 06:42:06 pm
Wis and Int are probably okay, though >_>
Post by: Max White on July 11, 2011, 06:46:03 pm
So, reguardles of the crushing fail and lack of dead scum, Jim, Vector and Irony: How's my scum hunting?
Post by: Think0028 on July 11, 2011, 06:47:56 pm
Yeah, I have to get back to playing regularly for a little while because my GUTS stat is not high enough IRL. The experiences of the last two years have killed my ability to take risks, so... time to ride :I
Wis and Int are probably okay, though >_>
oh my god someone else actually plays Monster Rancher II squeeeeeeee
...
Er. Cough. I'm not a rabid Monster Rancher fanboy, why do you ask.
Anyways, about the ICs: Jim was a great IC as usual, and Vector once she got going again was good. Too bad we offed her right after we lynched Powder Miner. Irony was quite helpful in scumchat, and I do believe that having a dedicated scum IC is a great idea that should be kept up if at all possible. It was nice to have an experienced person to bounce ideas off of.
Post by: Bdthemag on July 11, 2011, 06:51:47 pm
Post by: Darvi on July 11, 2011, 06:53:53 pm
Yeah, I have to get back to playing regularly for a little while because my GUTS stat is not high enough IRL.Guts also increase critical hit chance and slows your process of dying.
Good game everyone, I sure as hell posted alot more than the last Beginners Mafia I was in. I think im finally getting the hang of this game.Oh really. /:-l
Post by: Vector on July 11, 2011, 06:54:24 pm
Nice work scum, you did well. Totaly deserve that win.
So, reguardles of the crushing fail and lack of dead scum, Jim, Vector and Irony: How's my scum hunting?
For fuck's sake read what I said in the game.
You drove me bonkers. You're like... SirBayer. That's what you play like. But more so, and with more paranoia and less Mr. Sheepy-Sheep. Uh, the more recent SirBayer.
So yeah, your hunting felt more like you were just trying to kick sand, instead of actually looking at what people were saying and doing and compiling it. There was no judgment phase, just a choice to go for MOAR DAKKA.
oh my god someone else actually plays Monster Rancher II squeeeeeeee
Of course! Not for years, but I really loved that game.
Good game everyone, I sure as hell posted alot more than the last Beginners Mafia I was in. I think im finally getting the hang of this game.
You need to post about 5 times more than you did, bucko. That's not [total] + 5, that's 5[total] for our notation-happy viewers at home. Seriously.
Yeah, I have to get back to playing regularly for a little while because my GUTS stat is not high enough IRL.Guts also increase critical hit chance and slows your process of dying.
Another man with great taste :D
Post by: Darvi on July 11, 2011, 06:55:07 pm
Post by: Bdthemag on July 11, 2011, 06:55:49 pm
Post by: Darvi on July 11, 2011, 06:56:45 pm
Post by: Max White on July 11, 2011, 06:59:53 pm
For fuck's sake read what I said in the game.
You drove me bonkers. You're like... SirBayer. That's what you play like. But more so, and with more paranoia and less Mr. Sheepy-Sheep. Uh, the more recent SirBayer.
So yeah, your hunting felt more like you were just trying to kick sand, instead of actually looking at what people were saying and doing and compiling it. There was no judgment phase, just a choice to go for MOAR DAKKA.
...
:o
The more dakka is the judgement phase, and then if after that they still look scummy, I get serious and bust out a spellcard. :P Also, who is that SirBayer you describe? Any games I should read?
Al right, so note to self: Take breath before you try to destroy somebody.
Post by: Darvi on July 11, 2011, 07:00:51 pm
Post by: Bdthemag on July 11, 2011, 07:01:09 pm
Post by: breadbocks on July 11, 2011, 07:01:18 pm
Post by: Bdthemag on July 11, 2011, 07:02:21 pm
I for one love Moose Tracks.Cookies and Cream is the master race!
Post by: UltraValican on July 11, 2011, 07:02:45 pm
Post by: Darvi on July 11, 2011, 07:03:24 pm
Post by: Max White on July 11, 2011, 07:04:09 pm
Post by: Vector on July 11, 2011, 07:05:45 pm
You really have to adjust your scopes, bucko. Because as-is, you end up just wearing down people's desire to keep posting, without getting them anywhere near closer to being lynched. Your arguments are mostly terrible; they're empty. You pin "desires" on people that would make their actions scummy, but the desire is what would be necessary in the first place to call those actions bad... your arguments are circular.
You should check out BMIV and NSBM: P for Bayer's first game and what amounts to Bayer's most recent game. They're in the archive.
Can I get some feedback on the stuff I posted? Not just the lurky lurky lurk lurk parts.
You didn't post much, and what you did post was unplentiful enough for anyone to say more than I did.
So... post more, because right now your flaws look like they're basic beginner mistakes, which would easily be sanded away by a Day or so of good activity on your part, and a semi-aggressive town to judge you. Not really something I can lay out here; playing good town is an entire way of thinking, which must be learned through experience.
Rum and raisin shall inherit the earth.
I like chai, green tea, pumpkin, and peppermint.
Post by: Max White on July 11, 2011, 07:10:58 pm
No, you just... bleh.
You really have to adjust your scopes, bucko. Because as-is, you end up just wearing down people's desire to keep posting, without getting them anywhere near closer to being lynched. Your arguments are mostly terrible; they're empty. You pin "desires" on people that would make their actions scummy, but the desire is what would be necessary in the first place to call those actions bad... your arguments are circular.
You should check out BMIV and NSBM: P for Bayer's first game and what amounts to Bayer's most recent game. They're in the archive.
Well I guess I will either become a good player, or destroy your soul then. I'm so glad for the internet right now, and the fact that you can't punch me in the face through it.
Post by: Vector on July 11, 2011, 07:13:07 pm
You'll catch on eventually. This is a phase plenty of people have gone through, including myself. So suck it up and keep trying ;]
Post by: Think0028 on July 11, 2011, 07:17:07 pm
Post by: kilakan on July 11, 2011, 07:20:29 pm
I'm the same as you Vector, I really didn't like BD, but I had no idea about Think.
Post by: Max White on July 11, 2011, 07:24:40 pm
Nah, not angry enough to punch you in the face =)I'm just going to leave this here for educational reasons.
You are being as annoying as fuck. I say this with the greatest softness I can muster in my tone: "Max White, you are pissing me off and I want to boot you in the face right now." But because I don't think you're scum, I'm not voting you. So stop being such a chittering bag of febrile tit-monkeys and shape up.
Oh and um, on the topic of me being paranoid. Yea, that might be something I have to bank some exp into. In real life I am a little paranoid too, comes from being a good liar, so I guess it carried over. Just ask Jim, I was never fully convinced he was the brother.
Post by: Think0028 on July 11, 2011, 07:29:53 pm
Post by: Darvi on July 11, 2011, 07:31:04 pm
Not that I did that of course.
Post by: Vector on July 11, 2011, 07:31:20 pm
Quote
Chittering bag of febrile tit-monkeys
Hehehehe, that was pretty good.
Post by: Max White on July 11, 2011, 07:43:13 pm
Y'know, Max, I've SUSPECTED you of being scum so much, I'm curious how you'd behave if you actually were scum. I think that'd be the best thing for your experience. That said, not much you can do beyond RNG praying.Well, when the next beginner's starts you have a 2/7 chance of finding out.
Also, can we reserve spots here? :P
Post by: Darvi on July 11, 2011, 07:45:13 pm
Post by: Max White on July 11, 2011, 07:47:32 pm
...
Breadbocks and I are both going to get town again, aren't we....
Post by: breadbocks on July 11, 2011, 08:02:24 pm
Or hope that the mod is a jerk and chooses the roles on a whim :VSee, that sort of thing means you're a bad mod. It should be complete chance. In something like BYOR where there are a dozen people or so, choosing one person's alignment isn't so bad, but deciding yourself what everyone should be? Not a chance I'd play it.
Not that I did that of course.
Post by: Jim Groovester on July 11, 2011, 09:17:05 pm
Nice work scum, you did well. Totaly deserve that win.
So, reguardles of the crushing fail and lack of dead scum, Jim, Vector and Irony: How's my scum hunting?
You did fine. You took to heart my opening post, which was good. You asked about anything and everything you thought was odd or out of place. You'll go far if you keep doing that.
Though you did give Vector a lot of crap for no good reason, and I wasn't really paying too close attention to your walls of text later on in the game. If I was in the game I would've given you more direct criticism in the form of an attack so I can't really say whether you were doing a good job or not of actually attacking and making your points. (Note: What players accuse you of being scummy for is an excellent barometer for where you need to improve, provided the people attacking you are any good at the game.)
The town at the end couldn't get over attacking each other, and it's unfortunate because there was good reason for the town to do that. Stuff like that happens. That's why it's every townies responsibility to look as town as possible.
Good game everyone, I sure as hell posted alot more than the last Beginners Mafia I was in. I think im finally getting the hang of this game.
You needed to post more.
When it gets to the point where I have to question whether or not you actually want to play the game, there's a problem. It shouldn't even reach that point. I'm glad to see you do, but holy fucking shit why don't you look the part.
I hate playing truant officer to newbies in Beginner's Game, so if you really want to get good, quit patting yourself on the back for your ultra lurker scum victory and start playing the damn game.
Can I get some feedback on the stuff I posted? Not just the lurky lurky lurk lurk parts.
You did fine when you posted.
For the little you did.
As for how everybody else did, I'm happy. Everybody for the most part was active and involved.
Post by: TolyK on July 12, 2011, 06:27:52 am
Scoops in hell, but I guess that works too.Me like.
Oh shit when I made the role PM's I forgot that Tolyk wanted to be rocky road.I noticed, but it's OK.
...
EDIT:
Bd, Powder, please focus on the games more. Really.