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Dwarf Fortress => DF Suggestions => Topic started by: UristMcHuman on June 29, 2011, 04:18:00 pm

Title: Trainable cavalry units
Post by: UristMcHuman on June 29, 2011, 04:18:00 pm
If humans, elves and goblins get to ride things like horses and voracious cave crawlers, why not introduce ponies (not like you're thinkin' of), and be able to train dwarvish cavalry? You could place archers on mounts and they can be as deadly as they used to be. Plus, dwarfs armed with spears could impale things when they use the stab attack.
Title: Re: Trainable cavalry units
Post by: EmperorJon on June 29, 2011, 04:32:42 pm
Check the development pages before suggesting things. The majority of the universe as we know it is down to be developed... one day... possibly.

In this case, release 7 of the caravan arc is down for "Mounted combat rewrite and related changes", which given (I expect) will be done to allow adventurers to have mounts with their trading caravans and such, I guess we'll get cavalry then.

Still, it'll provide a nice use for animal training and caring, and new riding skill maybe?
Title: Re: Trainable cavalry units
Post by: tmrt on June 30, 2011, 04:13:03 am
It's much more likely that dwarves would prefer bear cavalry over ponies… any day.
Title: Re: Trainable cavalry units
Post by: BunnyBob77 on June 30, 2011, 09:43:32 am
Bears would be okay, but real dwarves would ride on trained war elephants!  Also, this is something that WILL be implemented into the game eventually, and you should try to search for mounts before you make a new topic.
Title: Re: Trainable cavalry units
Post by: Stormcloudy on June 30, 2011, 12:29:46 pm
Dragon.
Title: Re: Trainable cavalry units
Post by: UristMcHuman on June 30, 2011, 02:16:02 pm
I said, NOT ponies as you think of them. I was thinking more like Shetland ponies or something. Ponies I'm thinkin' of are miniature horses. And, I think war elephants should be mounts, for both dwarfs AND humans.

Saddles should be necessary for any race to invade whilst mounted, unless they are plains dwellers, in which case they can ride mounts bareback (like Native American warriors of old).
Title: Re: Trainable cavalry units
Post by: Ahra on June 30, 2011, 06:42:09 pm
i got an image of an dwarf riding an werewolf... theyre untrainable right?
Title: Re: Trainable cavalry units
Post by: Archaalen on July 01, 2011, 12:10:58 am
Boars seem most appropriate to me as a dwarven mount, perhaps of the Giant variety.  Strong, Grumpy, hairy, likes mushrooms, gets SERIOUSLY keyed up when fighting, which one am I talking about here?  Both, obviously.  A Boar Cavalry unit in every fortress is a sound policy!
Title: Re: Trainable cavalry units
Post by: Korgus on July 01, 2011, 03:31:31 pm
I think they'd be more likely to use cave creatures than aboveground creatures.
Title: Re: Trainable cavalry units
Post by: Neonivek on July 01, 2011, 04:56:21 pm
One issue with Dwarven Calvalry is how much sense is it for them to really have it? or at least to use it extensively.

They live in carved out mines, underground, in the mountains.
Title: Re: Trainable cavalry units
Post by: UltraValican on July 01, 2011, 06:31:03 pm
One issue with Dwarven Calvalry is how much sense is it for them to really have it? or at least to use it extensively.

They live in carved out mines, underground, in the mountains.
Lat time I checked seiges and ambushes took place outside unless your security REALLY got f*cked over.
Title: Re: Trainable cavalry units
Post by: IT 000 on July 01, 2011, 07:20:25 pm
Additionally the ability to go out and attack other goblin civs is planned. Flying Calvary coupled with a mass of Bear Calvary might come in handy here.
Title: Re: Trainable cavalry units
Post by: Neonivek on July 01, 2011, 07:44:41 pm
Additionally the ability to go out and attack other goblin civs is planned. Flying Calvary coupled with a mass of Bear Calvary might come in handy here.

Yes the utility of things are obvious but to what extent would riding have actually penetrated the dwarven civilisation who by all means have little-no use for it in their daily lives?

They don't even have a good capacity to raise livestock and their master tamer is a "Dungeon Master".
Title: Re: Trainable cavalry units
Post by: nitus on July 01, 2011, 07:48:33 pm
Dwarves are notorious for their dislike of horses and other mounts of the surface folk. In most fantasy continuities it's as much a dwarven trait as beards or a love of mining.
Title: Re: Trainable cavalry units
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on July 01, 2011, 09:14:24 pm
i got an image of an dwarf riding an werewolf... theyre untrainable right?
Of course, now werewolves are human were-wolves (or dwarf were-goats, or elf were-robins, or...)...so...that would be interesting...

I think they'd be more likely to use cave creatures than aboveground creatures.
Is that why they tame dralthas, jabberers, crundles, and purring maggots instead of water buffalo, dogs, cats, and cattle? Oh, wait, they don't.
Title: Re: Trainable cavalry units
Post by: Neonivek on July 01, 2011, 10:35:26 pm
One issue is the height addition when your riding an animal... underground... where the roof is likely not too high.
Title: Re: Trainable cavalry units
Post by: Archaalen on July 01, 2011, 10:45:08 pm
I believe the idea is to use them mostly above-ground.  Besides, ceilings can be made higher for cavalry quarters if necessary.  And, I still say boars are better than bears.  You could never get bears to breed fast enough, or get mothers to part with their cubs early enough.
Title: Re: Trainable cavalry units
Post by: Neonivek on July 01, 2011, 10:47:15 pm
I believe the idea is to use them mostly above-ground.  Besides, ceilings can be made higher for cavalry quarters if necessary.  And, I still say boars are better than bears.  You could never get bears to breed fast enough, or get mothers to part with their cubs early enough.

Can boars support a Dwarf (who is just as heavy as humans are... if not heavier)?

The Lightest horses, outside a pony, seem to be as heavy as a boar... With more of a place to sit.

Bears suffer from one thing significant... They arn't good mounts for riding and most art depicting them being ridden tends to contort their backs or give their riders magic butts.

How exactly do you ride a bear, that is running, properly?
Title: Re: Trainable cavalry units
Post by: Mckee on July 02, 2011, 03:08:35 am
I think the point made about why would dwarves have mounts, considering their culture is one that needs answering. If they live underground, mounts seem too large and unweildy, even if you make larger passage ways, you wouldnt want to be crushed up against a tunnel wall when Urist Mcnotgoodatriding screws up. Now, when armies are sent out, it makes sense that the dwarfs might use cavalry, but given the current limitations with AI tactics, cavalry wont act any different than normal foot soldiers, which is a shame.
Title: Re: Trainable cavalry units
Post by: Neonivek on July 02, 2011, 03:24:31 am
One of the major ways I can see Dwarves having mounts is through their relationships with the other races.

It would be something I'd think Dwarves would never start the game with (as it wouldn't be something that naturally stems from their culture) but something they would develop from other races.
Title: Re: Trainable cavalry units
Post by: UristMcHuman on July 02, 2011, 09:14:06 am
I think the point made about why would dwarves have mounts, considering their culture is one that needs answering. If they live underground, mounts seem too large and unweildy, even if you make larger passage ways, you wouldnt want to be crushed up against a tunnel wall when Urist Mcnotgoodatriding screws up. Now, when armies are sent out, it makes sense that the dwarfs might use cavalry, but given the current limitations with AI tactics, cavalry wont act any different than normal foot soldiers, which is a shame.

I was sort of thinkin' that the dwarf riding the (miniature horse) pony or boar would be able to go as fast as the animal when the rider brings the mount to a gallop or run, which is why I said archers could be more deadly and mounted spearmen could impale targets.
Title: Re: Trainable cavalry units
Post by: Pan on July 02, 2011, 09:33:48 am
The mongols used ponies. It was less 'little girl' than 'almost pillaged Rome'.

But won't dwarves, perhaps, use cavalry in underground caverns? After all, the underground caverns would be sort of like the open wilderness above ground (mostly).
Title: Re: Trainable cavalry units
Post by: Neonivek on July 02, 2011, 12:51:05 pm
The mongols used ponies. It was less 'little girl' than 'almost pillaged Rome'.

But won't dwarves, perhaps, use cavalry in underground caverns? After all, the underground caverns would be sort of like the open wilderness above ground (mostly).

From what I can gather the player fortresses are unique in this respect.

The Dwarves normally want nothing to do with the extensive underground.
Title: Re: Trainable cavalry units
Post by: Sadrice on July 07, 2011, 06:45:59 pm
I just want my dwarves to ride into battle on giant olms.  Perhaps they would make the cave lakes a little more navigable?
Title: Re: Trainable cavalry units
Post by: Rowanas on July 08, 2011, 11:21:55 am
Given that dwarven networks would be primarily underground, it makes sense for them to ride subterranean animals as messengers, rather than warriors. When mounted, the dwarf loses his traditional low centre of gravity, which would be like fighting with a lead hat on.

However, I support the taming and riding of animals as a means for dwarves to take messages around, and as a byproduct of the meat industry (the best riding animals get sold for profit).