I would be interested, but I have never played Mafia before. Reading the wiki, it does not seem too difficult to pick up. Is it more complicated than it appears?I had that same mindset, the mechanics aren't difficult but actual player sometimes is. I suggest you wait until the next Beginners Mafia game pops up, since this is a bastard game that doesn't use the standard mechanics of a normal mafia game.
Having seen the wiki, I must say the game has piqued my interest! I can watch this one until a novice-friendly game is introduced, though...I would be interested, but I have never played Mafia before. Reading the wiki, it does not seem too difficult to pick up. Is it more complicated than it appears?I had that same mindset, the mechanics aren't difficult but actual player sometimes is. I suggest you wait until the next Beginners Mafia game pops up, since this is a bastard game that doesn't use the standard mechanics of a normal mafia game.
no just a mafia game is rather time consuming and there is already 4 in progress, so a lot of people don't wanna be in more then one at a time.Oh, okay. That makes sense. From what I have seen, a single game at a time is engaging enough in and of itself.
I had no idea the recruiting process was such a stretch...
Are there so few regulars on these forums that know how to play?
I had no idea the recruiting process was such a stretch...
Are there so few regulars on these forums that know how to play?
Mmmmmmmm.
In
Screw it, in! I REGRET NOTHING!
Mmmmmmmm.
In
Great. One more, and any more players after that will result in Bonus Content.
:3Screw it, in! I REGRET NOTHING!
:D
Now we just have to get Flandre to come back and in! <3 <3 <3
A question about the lyncher role - after they win and turn to villager, what happens to them if town wins? If town loses?Would the lyncher not win also? Being a villager, he/she would not stand to benefit if the townies were to all die.
Would the lyncher not win also? Being a villager, he/she would not stand to benefit if the townies were to all die.But they already won. It would be pretty ridiculous, forcing someone to win twice in a row, with second time as a confirmed town, thus being a primary target for an NK.
Would the lyncher not win also? Being a villager, he/she would not stand to benefit if the townies were to all die.But they already won. It would be pretty ridiculous, forcing someone to win twice in a row, with second time as a confirmed town, thus being a primary target for an NK.
Oh. I was under the impression that the lyncher kept his role a secret, even after the deed was completed. His victory would not be announced, and the only prize for killing Player X would be the removal of any necessity to do anything suspicious from then onward.Would the lyncher not win also? Being a villager, he/she would not stand to benefit if the townies were to all die.But they already won. It would be pretty ridiculous, forcing someone to win twice in a row, with second time as a confirmed town, thus being a primary target for an NK.
When would this start?
Would the lyncher not win also? Being a villager, he/she would not stand to benefit if the townies were to all die.But they already won. It would be pretty ridiculous, forcing someone to win twice in a row, with second time as a confirmed town, thus being a primary target for an NK.
Oh. I was under the impression that the lyncher kept his role a secret, even after the deed was completed. His victory would not be announced, and the only prize for killing Player X would be the removal of any necessity to do anything suspicious from then onward.
Maybe the lyncher should simply leave play when he wins?Pretty much. You should know don't you.
Maybe the lyncher should simply leave play when he wins?That would be no fun...
The night only one player is killed instead of two indicates that the lyncher was either killed the previous night, or has completed the deed and has become a townie.Wait what? Lynchers can't NK.
Oh. I overlooked that bit...The night only one player is killed instead of two indicates that the lyncher was either killed the previous night, or has completed the deed and has become a townie.Wait what? Lynchers can't NK.
Lynchers know who their target is from the start and they don't have any special powers. That is the start and the end of it.I must be over-speculating, then...
This dead?No, LNCP is still working on it. It will be ready within a few days.
Darvi is out?
If you needed him for something, I could take he's place. Not being in a game is doing my head in. I mean technically it is a replacement not a sign up...
Although these things tend to work better with an odd number of people.
SUPER busy until the 16thish, please don't start until then D:
That's the spirit!
...
Wait, have we started up the 'die in Mafia, die in real life' system yet?
read the flavour for detective work (highly recommended!)
Simple: What characteristics would you want in an ideal scum partner?Good town play facade,activity and knowledge of these type of setup.
Dariush: In a semi-bastard mod like this, would you rather be town or scum?Scum because having scumbuddies to help is a good thing.
There was an actual person named Innocent VIII?Critical Research Failure (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CriticalResearchFailure) much?
Noted and appreciated reminder.read the flavour for detective work (highly recommended!)
IronyOwl, have you managed to find anything of interest yet?Are you rolefishing?
I find the pope's name--"innocent 8" to be interesting, as it seems to imply that only eight of us are fully townies. Furthermore, 14-8 = 6, which might explain the groups of 3 mentioned in the OP.What groups of 3?
Jim: Assuming you were a cop: Would you instantly claim a scum result under any circumstance? If you had a town result on someone who was headed for a lynch, would you be their knight in shining armor and claim to save them?
Jim, roleblocker or cop? Does anything about this game change that answer from normal?
Vector Do you think we'll have any survivor roles? Which ones would seem the most dangerous for town?
Are you rolefishing?
What groups of 3?
Strangers sit in the field by their fire waiting for dawn, always coming - and passing - in threes. The wilds are their home, however, and each night the fires will be lit anew. Each night, they will flee into the woods.
It cannot go any other way.
Vector, what do you make of that we're going on a literal witch hunt?
Max, would you prefer being a cop, a doc or a roleblocker?Cop, It makes my life a lot easier...
Max How many bastard mod type games have you played? Do you have a strategy as town for them in particular?This is realy more of a semi-bastard mod, so not all that different I'm guessing from a normal game, but to the question! Never before, unless you count supernatural currently going, but I plan read every last scrap of flavour text, it has been hinted to have clues.
Jim: Oh hod big and manly and strong you are! Also, if you were a miller, would you claim d1?
Urist, in a semi-bastard like this, would you rather have a role that's powerful or unexpected?
UristMcArathos: You are still new, and the players here aren't sworn to help you, so what is your plan of action if you find yourself needing advice?
Roleblocker. Other bastard games have shown me the limited usefulness that a cop inspect has. Roleblocker doesn't have that doubt.Next question: Roleblocker or vig?
Absolutely not. There's a reason why I provided analysis from the publicly available flavortext. I'm still curious to hear your thoughts.I'm curious about the very second sentence, whether it's relevant and whether "the dog's death" refers to the figure dying or the witness dog.
but I plan read every last scrap of flavour text, it has been hinted to have clues.Have you done so with what we've got? Did you get anything from it?
IronyOwl: Hello! Firstly, this has been bugging me because I don't know and everybody else seems to, where is your avatar from? Also, let's say you were a third party role with a wincon that revolved around having a witch night killed rather than lynched, how would you go about achieving this.Franken Fran, horror/weird stuff manga. She's so cute. :3
Have you done so with what we've got? Did you get anything from it?
when all the sane are asleep.This might be a hint that no townie has a night ability, although this seems a little contrary to the day 1 opening post, that seems to imply seven town power roles... So not that much for sure yet, I think we need more to go off.
Such an impressive shiny head, and a strong masculine nostril!
So you would lie to the town to cover your own ass? Don't you think if you were inspected (And I mean it if you, of coarse you are inspected!) it would be better if you claimed early?
Roleblocker. Other bastard games have shown me the limited usefulness that a cop inspect has. Roleblocker doesn't have that doubt.Next question: Roleblocker or vig?
Flandre, let's say you're a town roleblocker. What sort of qualities would you look for in a target?To put it bluntly, I would look for scummy behavior as per usual.
Flandre, let's say you're a town roleblocker. What sort of qualities would you look for in a target?To put it bluntly, I would look for scummy behavior as per usual.
There is little else to it, because I would not likely risk blocking the role of some misjudged townie, and for those I was absolutely sure were scum, I would still withhold my block to avoid any vote-role associations on the scum's part. Townie roleblocking does not seem particularly advantageous, I think.
What if you had only murky reads on people? Would you still block somebody?If I had nothing substantial to go on for an intelligible use for my role, then I would not use it. Otherwise, it is just as well that I randomly select an individual, block him/her, and hope for the best.
IronyOwl: Hello! Firstly, this has been bugging me because I don't know and everybody else seems to, where is your avatar from? Also, let's say you were a third party role with a wincon that revolved around having a witch night killed rather than lynched, how would you go about achieving this.
On a somewhat unrelated note, I remain 100% in favor of claiming miller D1, first post of the game.
What if you had only murky reads on people? Would you still block somebody?If I had nothing substantial to go on for an intelligible use for my role, then I would not use it. Otherwise, it is just as well that I randomly select an individual, block him/her, and hope for the best.
IronyOwl: Hello! Firstly, this has been bugging me because I don't know and everybody else seems to, where is your avatar from? Also, let's say you were a third party role with a wincon that revolved around having a witch night killed rather than lynched, how would you go about achieving this.
That is a very specific question.
I think I'm a miller. It doesn't specifically say in my role PM, but the flavour text does seem to imply it, and the theme of the game seems to be extracting things from flavour. When I asked LNCP about it no answer was given, I got a reply but very specifically no answer.
So do you mix potions in cauldrons with newt eyes, but they don't do anything? Do you run around with a broomstick between your legs, flapping your arms trying to fly? Does your trochaic tetrameter end up more like iambic whatevermeter?Well I live further out from the village than most, and invest in the purchase of many books. I also enjoy a spot of carpentry, and before these gentlemen turned up on horses there was gossip going around about me. Walking around town I would catch whispers of people claiming I carved 'totems' and that the books in my house contained dark magic.
Well I live further out from the village than most, and invest in the purchase of many books. I also enjoy a spot of carpentry, and before these gentlemen turned up on horses there was gossip going around about me. Walking around town I would catch whispers of people claiming I carved 'totems' and that the books in my house contained dark magic.
Also, while we are on the topic of minor details that may mean nothing, I purchase most of my food from merchants but living off a simple diet. Anybody have anything relevant?
Not really. I'm a landlord's son who enjoys spending my father's money. Not for any productive purpose, of course.
| Think0028 | - 1 - | Urist_McArathos, |
| BDthemag | - 0 - | |
| Vector | - 0 - | |
| Toaster | - 1 - | Flandre, |
| Dariush | - 1 - | Think0028, |
| Pandarsenic | - 1 - | Ottofar, |
| TolyK | - 1 - | Simple, |
| Urist_McArathos | - 0 - | |
| IronyOwl | - 0 - | |
| Flandre | - 0 - | |
| Simple | - 0 - | |
| Ottofar | - 0 - | |
| Jim Groovester | - 1 - | IronyOwl, |
| Max White | - 1 - | Dariush, |
| - | ||
| Not Voting | - 0 - | BDthemag, Pandarsenic, TolyK, Max White, Toaster, Jim Groovester, Vector, |
| No Lynch | - 0 - | |
| - | ||
| Extend | - 0 - | |
| Shorten | - 0 - |
Such an impressive shiny head, and a strong masculine nostril!Why are you projecting scum fear of inspection on someone else ?
So you would lie to the town to cover your own ass? Don't you think if you were inspected (And I mean it if you, of coarse you are inspected!) it would be better if you claimed early?
Yea, that sounds like you Jim. :PCoffee beans as in trade or as in "i got plantation somewhere" ?
I'm a self made man, who is currently living off some wise investments I made in coffee beans.
LNCP: Why is this not a role playing mafia? It would have been perfect for this game!
I'm a merchant, resting at the inn. I could be the merchant you purchase your supplies from, Max.What's the inn name ?
Why are you projecting scum fear of inspection on someone else ?Digging for info. I wanted to know more about why Jim wouldn't claim as miller, so that I could make a more informed choice for myself. I was thinking strongly about claiming, as it seems to be a popular choice for kooks in paranormal, but still better to double check.
Coffee beans as in trade or as in "i got plantation somewhere" ?I'm not sure, just that I made my money from investment, and that could be either. Based on the fact that I get to live out my days reading books, I would guess I own a plantation, but that is speculation.
Also, before I forget, what of the three role types town have to lynch worries you most, Simple?Have to ? Well i guess it would be witch and the unknown second threat (that could as well not exist?). As for what powers : some kind of multi-kill, cult-like ability and maybe a time-based win condition role ?
Hmm, ok. So I as told there were four types of roles to look out for, and you didn't pick up on that. Interesting. I would be worried if you hadn't then named some of the entities.I'm not sure what you mean by four types of roles to look our for. We know of townie/witch/miller/lyncher, right ? Unless have access to some information i'm not aware of ? Or i missed something important ?
As for magical entities, things like lynchers (Requires a certain player to be lynched to win), assassins (Requires a certain player to be NKed), observers (Need to survive for a certain number of days or need the game to go for a certain number of days) and maybe a cult might be involved. I'm not sure what else.
Actually LNCP, are millers informed of their millerhood?
Miller Villager
Abilities: Will show up as a Witch to any investigative roles. The player may or may not know about this.
Wincon: Eliminate all Witches, Witch-aligned entities, magical entities and killers present from the game.
I'm not sure what you mean by four types of roles to look our for. We know of townie/witch/miller/lyncher, right ? Unless have access to some information i'm not aware of ? Or i missed something important ????
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\_/In any case, what do you hope to get out of flavorfishing?
Flandre: I have the most trouble reading Jim, Vector, and Ottofar, though Otto I tend to read as scum rather than town. I think Jim could pull it off the best through sheer force of personality.Okay. What is it about Ottofar that constantly gives you these scum readings?
In any case, what do you hope to get out of flavorfishing?
What do you think wouldn't be gotten out of flavorfishing? I'm the one who started it, after all, and the point was to discover any commonalities in things that don't look role-sensitive.
The uninformed majority needs some information, and we might just as well try to get it.
*Sigh* My double posting and badly trimmed quotes lead my to think I have come down with Panda syndrome, where as my ability to post fails when I'm tired. This will be my last before bed then.What the hell are you talking about ? I understand role types as jester,lyncher, godfather,roleblocker etc. what you listed are alignments as far i know. And aside from that i read your question as "which three role types..".I'm not sure what you mean by four types of roles to look our for. We know of townie/witch/miller/lyncher, right ? Unless have access to some information i'm not aware of ? Or i missed something important ????
Witch, witch aligned, magical and killers. How did you not know that?
Simple: Do you agree that failure to know the townie wincon means that you're not a townie?If it wasn't listed in the OP then i could agree. Also i believe that asking "are you scum?" isn't very efficient way to scumhunt but that's just my opinion.
If there were no witches, or at least nobody we had to lynch, we would have filled our wincons, packed our bags, and be in post game as soon as d1 kicked off.Yeah but it's bastard game for some reason or another :P Bluh, not that we could do anything about that at this stage anyway.
FlandreWhat role you would not want to see in this setup ?
Hard to say, given that we don't know the full implications of flavor. I still want to hear his answer on the subject.Sorry, didn't notice this before.
Allowing a night kill before anybody has had a chance to post is a bit of a bitch slap to who ever signed up then get killed, so it seems reasonable that the scum didn't have a kill.Do you think something else might have happened overnight to justify the existence of N0? If so, what do you think it was?
Having said that, there are different sorts of scum, we could be dealing with a cult, that recruits a player each night instead of killing one, or an arsonist mafia, that works by 'priming' a target each night, then igniting them all at once, leading to mass death. Both tend to be harder to spot than a normal mafia because they don't limit the number of players in a game.
Or, if somebody had a protect or block or something, we could have gotten very lucky.
IronyOwl: Hello! Firstly, this has been bugging me because I don't know and everybody else seems to, where is your avatar from? Also, let's say you were a third party role with a wincon that revolved around having a witch night killed rather than lynched, how would you go about achieving this.
That is a very specific question.
This was such an understatement I laughed.
That is indeed a very specific question. I'd like to see it answered.
Yep. I would be horribly annoyed if we would lost to jester. Mislynch is bad and irritating but directly losing due to it would be just depressing. That's just more of my mindset than something that worries me because it's dangerous to town however. Especially since i find jester hard to fit in the game theme ( not that means anything )FlandreWhat role you would not want to see in this setup ?
Simple: I do not find the presence of any common role particularly worrisome, but since this is a bastard game, I would be wise to brace for any unpleasant role-related surprises. An exception to this might be the Vigilante in the hands of a dumb townie, for obvious reasons. Is there a role you would not like to see, Simple?
So do you mix potions in cauldrons with newt eyes, but they don't do anything? Do you run around with a broomstick between your legs, flapping your arms trying to fly? Does your trochaic tetrameter end up more like iambic whatevermeter?
IronyOwl, do you expect that this game's semi-bastard nature will affect your ability to gather suspicions??Not really. I read semi-bastard as "unusual," so I don't think there'll be much that interferes with normal scumhunting or reasoning. The only thing I'd be wary of is the possibility that some people wouldn't know they're actually part of a cult or whatever, since obviously there'd be no way to figure out they're scum until they themselves find out about it.
Simple: Do you agree that failure to know the townie wincon means that you're not a townie?If it wasn't listed in the OP then i could agree. Also i believe that asking "are you scum?" isn't very efficient way to scumhunt but that's just my opinion.
Max: Why are you more interested in playing with flavor and tossing theories than finding scum?
On waiting: Fine, but I don't trust you.
read the flavour for detective work (highly recommended!)
Vector: Can you think of a situation where you would you lynch someone over flavor?
Umm, can I tell you after we get some more info? I don't want people to know what I'm looking for, lest they try to give me what I want to hear, or avoid what I don't.You have something awfully specific in mind that you're fishing for. Why focusing so hard on that?
Vector examines her surroundings.
Vector examines her surroundings.
There are exits NORTH, SOUTH, and DENNIS.
What makes you something like this is going to work at all?
What makes you something like this is going to work at all?
Yeah, you're far more likely to be stuck wondering Why, oh Why you can't Get Ye Flask!
Because Wuba's not going to tell you, and there's no precious graphics to help you either.
What makes you something like this is going to work at all?
KWN:DE and IMBML(BM(M)), which both had similar things as a vital mechanic.
I hope you have more to contribute than to respond to my joke.
Is there some reason you think I am trying to stop you?
I don't think it's going to work, but I'm only asking questions.
Vector: Can you think of a situation where you would you lynch someone over flavor?
Without other clues, like the ones that come from scumhunting? I probably wouldn't. Bastard games, however, usually require that you solve a puzzle in order to help figure out what's going on, and how to hunt. As such, working out mechanics are necessary.
Lynching without other evidence, unless this is a game where the scum don't know they're scum... no. I consider myself a better player than that, and literary analysis (which is what we'd be doing) is always up to interpretation.
If I was a JOAT, my strategy (given that I was a townie and I understand this role) might be as follows:How would you decide which of these to use on a given night, though?
-My inspect would be used on someone who satisfies the above criterion.
-My kill would be directed at the person I have inspected and confirmed to be negatively aligned, unless his situation changes and he was lynched on his own. Otherwise, I would save it for when I was absolutely sure someone was scum and the rest of the town refused to buy it. I would also be careful not to openly vote for him/her to prevent the scum from connecting my vote to the kill, mistaken me for a Vigilante, and do away with me that night.
-I would probably avoid roleblocking as a townie, due to my preference in voting for someone who I found was scummy over blocking whatever role he may have. Blocking the role of someone I was unsure about is to be further avoided. (This is the brief version of an answer I provided just a little while ago.)
-I would simply protect whoever I deem to be both dangerous to the scum, and whose death would yield the least clues for scum-hunting the following morning. In essence, I would have to think like one of them. Being a doctor is not an exact science, though, so there is little I could offer with general strategies.
Flandre Do you think we'll suffer any consequences for not lynching? I'm just wondering how stern those guards will be if we don't have someone ready for that noose, and a mislynch is generally a setback for town.I hadn't really considered nolynching anyway, but this is an interesting theory.
You have something awfully specific in mind that you're fishing for. Why focusing so hard on that?Yes, I do, and now that Urist has responded I think this will answer Toasters question as well.
I'm a merchant, resting at the inn. I could be the merchant you purchase your supplies from, Max.I also find it in interesting that he made an effort to attach he's back story to mine. This could be an attempt to add validity by building on an already existing role flavour. If there was going to be story consistency, I would expect it to be with the name of the inn, something he can not provide.
MaxWell firstly there could be a brother style role, that is a role that is aligned to the mafia, and counts towards their numbers, but does not have scum chat, and doesn't know who the mafia players are, and they do not know him. He must just try to mislynch and hope he isn't NKed. Apart from that, I can't think of any others, apart from maybe brothers with night actions like kills or inspects.
The game references "witch-aligned entities" as well as witches. What kinds of roles do you think would be "witch-aligned"? Do you think they'd be a cult-like faction, or...well, I don't know enough to toss out other possibilities. Basically, what the hell else do you think we need to worry about besides the scum themselves?
| Think0028 | - 0 - | |
| Vector | - 0 - | |
| Toaster | - 0 - | |
| Dariush | - 1 - | Think0028, |
| Pandarsenic | - 1 - | Ottofar, |
| TolyK | - 1 - | Simple, |
| Urist_McArathos | - 0 - | |
| IronyOwl | - 0 - | |
| Flandre | - 1 - | IronyOwl, |
| Simple | - 0 - | |
| Ottofar | - 0 - | |
| Jim Groovester | - 0 - | |
| Max White | - 3 - | Dariush, Toaster, Urist_McArathos, |
| - | ||
| Not Voting | - 7 - | Pandarsenic, TolyK, Jim Groovester, Vector, Max White, Flandre, |
| No Lynch | - 0 - | |
| - | ||
| Extend | - 6 - | Jim Groovester, Flandre, Simple, Toaster, Vector, Think0028 |
| Shorten | - 0 - |
MOD: Can you make certain that Bdthemag, Tolyk, and Pandarsenic, and possibly any others I might have missed who haven't posted since game start, are actually playing?
Vector examines her surroundings.
Simple: Any chance you could elucidate us with some more information as to the extortionists?In description of my life prior to this day was mentioned that i had no problem with any "funny business,riots or extortionists". It was a bit too precise to be accidental to me so i mentioned it. Sadly there's nothing more about that.
Weird we have that many merchant roles if the town is on "minor trade route" and my pm mentions only "occasional merchant". Maybe i shouldn't read too much into it but bit more information can't be bad.
Um, no more info Max, sadly. No, not even the name of the inn. I won't copy my entire PM (duh), but that's all there is. I'm a merchant, resting at the inn. Oh, and I like to drink, apparently. That's everything. There's a ton for me to read through, so Unvote for now; I'm satisfied with Think's answer, and feel there's a LOT of juicier stuff to dig through tonight.
Bdthemag: If someone was lurking in such a way as to appear irrefutably scummy, would you vote for that person, or withhold judgement to avoid a comment directed at your own notorious lurking habits?
Dariush: Does the fact that this is a semi-bastard mod affect your opinion at all?Semi-bastard? Maybe you meant 'semi-closed setup'? And in any case, no.
Dariush Would you rather want to be against standard mafia or cult ?Definitely against standard mafia.
Actually I phrased that incorrectly.
Considering that scum are witches, it would rather be expected that the traditional millers would be some females which are interested in books. Putting actual millers as miller role is quite illogical (considering you fit the rest of the game so neatly together).
Flandre Do you think we'll suffer any consequences for not lynching? I'm just wondering how stern those guards will be if we don't have someone ready for that noose, and a mislynch is generally a setback for town.I am open to the possibility. I don't think it would be too much trouble to steer clear of a no-lynch situation, and regardless of what might happen if we turn up empty-handed, it is better to be safe than to be sorry.
Specifically, when one actively lurks and intentionally overlooks questions. I was trying to elicit a defensive response from Bd by asking what he would do if he encountered a player who operated like he himself did in the last BM.Bdthemag: If someone was lurking in such a way as to appear irrefutably scummy, would you vote for that person, or withhold judgement to avoid a comment directed at your own notorious lurking habits?
At what point does lurking become criminal?
How would you decide which of these to use on a given night, though?I would probably inspect near the end of D1, protect during N1, kill whoever seemed scummy, yet unlikely to be lynched that day (taking into account the results of the inspection, and the behavior of the inspected that morning) on D2, and roleblock never. Things might be switched around depending on the situation, but I believe this is a good place to start as any.
I'm sorry, Bd, but...
*wipes tear from eye*
That was amusing! Also, two people think they are millers, one is confirmed to be a miller... Jim is sure he isn't, and I'm going to believe him.
MOD: Can you make certain that Bdthemag, Tolyk, and Pandarsenic, and possibly any others I might have missed who haven't posted since game start, are actually playing?
They are all playing. I have prodded TolyK and Pandarsenic.
JOAT one-shots are usually night actions. Assuming just one action per night, what would your order/criteria be? What might mix that up?How would you decide which of these to use on a given night, though?I would probably inspect near the end of D1, protect during N1, kill whoever seemed scummy, yet unlikely to be lynched that day (taking into account the results of the inspection, and the behavior of the inspected that morning) on D2, and roleblock never. Things might be switched around depending on the situation, but I believe this is a good place to start as any.
As far as I know, nobody's PM explicitly mentioned anyone else. The number might be significant, though it could just be an excuse for not everyone to be from around these parts.Weird we have that many merchant roles if the town is on "minor trade route" and my pm mentions only "occasional merchant". Maybe i shouldn't read too much into it but bit more information can't be bad.
Actually, I would definitely read something into it; my role PM didn't mention any other merchants, or a large caravan or the sort of thing that would require several merchants. As far as I know, I'm the only merchant here, just resting after the journey. It's entirely possible that people are lying about their flavor text.
Unvote. Thank you for your prompt answer...now to figure out what to ask next.Maybe something of or about the two other merchants you suspect?
What's the inn name ?What is the inn name, Simple?
Considering that scum are witches, it would rather be expected that the traditional millers would be some females which are interested in books. Putting actual millers as miller role is quite illogical (considering you fit the rest of the game so neatly together).
What are you getting at?If all townies are millers*
No matter what I can think of I can't escape how dumb it is.
Surprise me with your intelligent reasons.
Given that I am the only person who fits that in the game, no, I don't think I've been made evil just because I'm one of two girls and happen to like books.One of two girls? Who is the other?
Oops. You even mentioned in the question that they were only night actions. How did I miss that?JOAT one-shots are usually night actions. Assuming just one action per night, what would your order/criteria be? What might mix that up?How would you decide which of these to use on a given night, though?I would probably inspect near the end of D1, protect during N1, kill whoever seemed scummy, yet unlikely to be lynched that day (taking into account the results of the inspection, and the behavior of the inspected that morning) on D2, and roleblock never. Things might be switched around depending on the situation, but I believe this is a good place to start as any.
One of two girls? Who is the other?*raises hand*
What are you getting at?If all townies are millers*
No matter what I can think of I can't escape how dumb it is.
Surprise me with your intelligent reasons.
And Jim is not a miller
Then Jim is not a townie
Seemless logic even a trained monkey could get. The problem is the * in there, and as such your free from being a real suspect unless people keep flipping miller.
When the mod advises to read the flavour for detective work, it would be foolish to ignore it.So basically you're doing that because you like it more than scum hunting ?
Also, It's like being part of a murder mystery book, how could you not be getting in on the flavour? That is like going on a roller coaster and not screaming on the loops.
My pm was not very short, I just felt most of it was not pertinet to Max's questions. For example, I also saw a man run through some woods, but that hardly seems noteworthy on its own. I really don't see how my post could be taken as building credibity when it makes me look like a quiet stranger.Well i don't see why you should be worried about revealing flavor text, even if it makes you "suspicious" it's only flavor text after all.
Hmm ? I don't get why you fos'd me but anyway it looks like nobody pm mentioned my inn name so : name's Flaming Hen.What's the inn name ?What is the inn name, Simple?
Like I said, your question about what made me think I am a miller made me think you might have been trying to gauge what a miller is to judge against your own PM, and if your flavour makes you think you could be a miller if it was more clear, maybe you are something clearly worse.
Considering that scum are witches, it would rather be expected that the traditional millers would be some females which are interested in books. Putting actual millers as miller role is quite illogical (considering you fit the rest of the game so neatly together).Dariush: Were you trying to connect real-world, or in-game genders to roles?
Much of what we are discussing involves hidden details that are relevant. It is not only flavor text, in other words.My pm was not very short, I just felt most of it was not pertinet to Max's questions. For example, I also saw a man run through some woods, but that hardly seems noteworthy on its own. I really don't see how my post could be taken as building credibity when it makes me look like a quiet stranger.Well i don't see why you should be worried about revealing flavor text, even if it makes you "suspicious" it's only flavor text after all.
Max White:Sooo... You just produced a complete and unbelievable theory out of thin air and based your suspicions on it ? Besides that i'm also pretty sure i'm not a miller.Yes, I did. Well I don't think it is entirely impossible, but it is some pretty big speculation, thus blue instead of red.
I asked you to clarify because you were vague about it.Yea, maybe. If my PM isn't telling me explicitly I am a miller, would a witch aligned know for sure? I mean the scum chat would be the obvious thing, but what about somebody who is scum without the chat?
I also don't really see the logic in this. To clarify, you think that I 1) Fished for miller flavor, 2) To compare against my own flavor, 3) So I can find out if I'm scum or not.
Am I getting this right?
-snip-What i meant was that if you're townie revealing flavor shouldn't be a big problem unless you have some really game-changing information to share that could be completely false.
Much of what we are discussing involves hidden details that are relevant. It is not only flavor text, in other words.
And how would you test it ?Max White:Sooo... You just produced a complete and unbelievable theory out of thin air and based your suspicions on it ? Besides that i'm also pretty sure i'm not a miller.Yes, I did. Well I don't think it is entirely impossible, but it is some pretty big speculation, thus blue instead of red.
Is there something wrong with somebody speculating in a closed game type, when there is a way to test out such a speculation?
Yea, maybe. If my PM isn't telling me explicitly I am a miller, would a witch aligned know for sure? I mean the scum chat would be the obvious thing, but what about somebody who is scum without the chat?
Well i don't see why you should be worried about revealing flavor text, even if it makes you "suspicious" it's only flavor text after all.
Why shouldn't I be worried? As we've already discussed, the flavor text may be more important than we're giving credit. What if my flavor text reveals I'm a power role to someone else? What if that person I spotted running through the woods is an SK, or Scum? If I reveal I know something that may damn them later, they can choose to hide it (or worse, use that knowledge against Town).Then why did you choose to reveal that you saw a man running through the forest?
Jim: At this point, I have no real leads. This is one of those D1s where I get muddled and lost. I don't even suspect Dariush yet, and that's unusual for me!
Who do you suspect?
I'm not attending to hunting until tomorrow morning, but I'm going to request that we keep from wasting our energy on Pandar until we verify whether or not he's actually playing in this. He requested universal replacement a little bit back, and I haven't seen him post since.
Max: Do you find said revelation suspicious?I do a little. At first he insists that there is nothing more to he's role, but then when I point out a lack of detail he decides to inform us of the most interesting thing any bodies role has given yet, and then decides to keep quiet but insist he's role has all sorts of interesting things that he isn't telling us about.
10. Please make an effort to post at least once daily. If you do not post for 36 hours, you will be prodded. If I don’t hear from you within 24 more hours, you will be replaced and/or modkilled.
Jim: Do you think you are a mason (sic)? Protip, now is a very good time to be honest.Why'd you throw in the bolded part? I see you were riding your theory that 'all villagers are millers, all non-millers are scum' at the time, but why so desperate about it?
| Think0028 | - 0 - | |
| Vector | - 0 - | |
| Toaster | - 0 - | |
| Dariush | - 0 - | |
| Pandarsenic | - 2 - | Ottofar, Max White, |
| TolyK | - 2 - | Simple, Jim Groovester, |
| Urist_McArathos | - 1 - | Dariush, |
| IronyOwl | - 0 - | |
| Flandre | - 2 - | IronyOwl, Think0028, |
| Simple | - 0 - | |
| Ottofar | - 0 - | |
| Jim Groovester | - 0 - | |
| Max White | - 0 - | |
| - | ||
| Not Voting | - 6 - | TolyK, Vector, Pandarsenic, Flandre, Urist_McArathos, Toaster, |
| No Lynch | - 0 - | |
| - | ||
| Extend | - 3 - | Jim Groovester, Toaster, Think0028 |
| Shorten | - 0 - |
Dariush: Were you trying to connect real-world, or in-game genders to roles?In-game, of course.
Dariush, who do you suspect?Nobody as of yet.
TolyK is up for Replace.
Flandre: What do you think about Max now, after your vote for him earlier?Not much, just judging by the answer he has given me. It did not help that my follow-up question was literally answered in his response to my first, so I decided to just let it be. I will wait until I scour the thread later tonight to interrogate someone else.
Flandre: How do you define active lurking?
Okay, thank you for clearing that up for me.Dariush: Were you trying to connect real-world, or in-game genders to roles?In-game, of course.
Simple, who do you suspect?To be honest there wasn't many things i could call scummy enough to lynch over them but most notable were max flavor frenzy, dariush flavor claim is incompatible with mine and there's strange pandar non-playing. I hope something else comes up till the end of day because right now my vote would be based more on gut feeling than anything solid. :\
dariush flavor claim is incompatible with mineWait what? I'm an owner of a tavern, you're of an inn. What's incompatible in that?
Dariush: What's worse : finding dead vigilante or dead cop at dawn ?Definitely a cop. Especially at LYLO, when vig's kill or decision not to can screw everything up.
Vector: If you were SK, who would be your first target ?
Uhh, sorry i misread that flavor part (in my pm it's only one hostel that is a tavern as addition...). Unvote.dariush flavor claim is incompatible with mineWait what? I'm an owner of a tavern, you're of an inn. What's incompatible in that?Dariush: What's worse : finding dead vigilante or dead cop at dawn ?Definitely a cop. Especially at LYLO, when vig's kill or decision not to can screw everything up.
Simple: Are you asking me what I think about the possibility of someone being a "cop" in their flavor text, but vanilla town for their role? Please clarify what you are asking me.I meant the cop that instead of definite mafia/town alignment receives flavor description on inspects. E.g "You find lots of suspicious books in his house!". This is extension of "why not reveal flavor?" question.
If I were being vindictive, Dariush or Max White.Why these two ?
Max: If Pandar comes back and posts worthy content, would your vote go back to Urist?Back to Urist? No, I didn't vote him before. It would go on him though, as were in extended time, and he is my best lead.
To pretty much force a mislynch. It will be a dumb theory if we don't get any reply, and Panda is lynch, and especially if he flips scum, and if so, no harm done, but it couldn't hurt to try.
Name :Woah as i write that i realized maybe witches could use our names in some way since it's pretty common theme when dealing with magic e.t.c So i guess i not reveal my name for now (damn i'm too paranoid probably).What sort of power do you think requires knowing someone's name to use?
What sort of power do you think requires knowing someone's name to use?
Thank you, Urist. I am familiar with this, but I wanted to ask Simple what he thought might be a Witch's role that required a name to use--how the idea might be engineered to fit into the game.What sort of power do you think requires knowing someone's name to use?
The question is not addressed to me, but I do know that in some occult and mysticism practices, names can be used to confer power over another creature. Some even believe that every entity has a True Name, a sort of unique code for them, that if known, can allow untold power over the creature.
Typically though, these rules seem to apply to demons and such more than mortals, but I can see where the idea that witches might use our "real" names to do harm can come from. I don't necessarily agree, since I don't recall it being a part of witch folklore, but I get the gist of the idea.
It also seems that whatever is keeping him from posting has nothing to do with his alignment.
Bolded for answer. I found it suspicious that you supposedly knew the name but at least two other people didn't.Hmm ? I don't get why you fos'd me but anyway it looks like nobody pm mentioned my inn name so : name's Flaming Hen.What's the inn name ?What is the inn name, Simple?
IronyOwl, who do you suspect?Mainly Max, for going off on all sorts of flavor tangents with absolutely zero actual scumhunting. Granted, this is Max, so that's somewhat to be expected, but still.
With nothing else to go off of I'm perfectly happy to lynch players who are apparently playing but have not posted, i.e., TolyK and/or Pandarsenic.
Keep playing as normal, wait to see if we get a flood of millers or a mix of roles, easy.Like this. When you say "keep playing as normal," do you mean start playing as normal, or continue to throw up what-ifs until a lot of people have died?
Apart from that, not a huge amount has revealed itself. Are we all a little scared of the unknown? I hope not! Get busy living or get busy dying! Extend, I guess.And here. You're claiming to be encouraging everyone to play, but not doing it yourself. Why is that? You're not even throwing up a crackpot theory with it, you're just spouting pro-town jargon.
Jim mentioned earlier that he wouldn't outright claim if he got miller, I wanted to press that if he was a miller, he really should, as if he was I would be further drawn to the idea that all townies are millers.Here's a question: Why does it matter? Unless we're swimming in cops also, I really don't see this being a big enough deal to focus a lot of time and energy on.
Also, two people think they are millers, and a third was confirmed to be one. Three millers seems like a lot to start off with, I'm still wondering if there are more. LNCP either wanted to weaken the cop with millers, give us wine to drink when there is no cop, or make a puzzle out of having all the town inspect as scum and the scum inspect as town.
IronyOwl: Would you lynch someone over flavor evidence only ? How many scum do you expect to be playing ?Not unless it was incredibly strong, like two people claiming to run the only inn in town.
Irony: What do you think the fact that we started in a night phase means?This I don't know, but I do find it interesting. My first instinct is that it's some sort of divination phase for the scumteams to hunt each other out- that might explain why there was no kill as well.
This is a good theory, especially since we probably won't get anything useful out of sharing names.What sort of power do you think requires knowing someone's name to use?
The question is not addressed to me, but I do know that in some occult and mysticism practices, names can be used to confer power over another creature. Some even believe that every entity has a True Name, a sort of unique code for them, that if known, can allow untold power over the creature.
Typically though, these rules seem to apply to demons and such more than mortals, but I can see where the idea that witches might use our "real" names to do harm can come from. I don't necessarily agree, since I don't recall it being a part of witch folklore, but I get the gist of the idea.
It also seems that whatever is keeping him from posting has nothing to do with his alignment.What makes you say that?
Hey guys, I'm back. Archive-diving the thread momentarily, then posting, then... eh, cooking dinner probably.This is kind of nonchalant for lurking through an extension.
So yeah.
Had some shit related to my move-in, which I'm attempting to deal with appropriately or just get over as necessary.
He was gone too long to expect to get away with lurking, if that was his intention. 'Seems' is the code word for WIFOM here. Cue guilty face.It also seems that whatever is keeping him from posting has nothing to do with his alignment.What makes you say that?
Pandar: If you were scum, which person here would you most fear as scum? What about the reverse?
Pandar, are you going to actually play this game?
Pandarsenic: Would you be more suspicious of a lurker, or a player claiming to be miller?
Pandar, you are here, aren't you? What do you think the size and semi-bastardry of this game will do to its general setup?
Jim mentioned earlier that he wouldn't outright claim if he got miller, I wanted to press that if he was a miller, he really should, as if he was I would be further drawn to the idea that all townies are millers.
Also, two people think they are millers, and a third was confirmed to be one. Three millers seems like a lot to start off with, I'm still wondering if there are more. LNCP either wanted to weaken the cop with millers, give us wine to drink when there is no cop, or make a puzzle out of having all the town inspect as scum and the scum inspect as town.
Simple: Are you asking me what I think about the possibility of someone being a "cop" in their flavor text, but vanilla town for their role? Please clarify what you are asking me.I meant the cop that instead of definite mafia/town alignment receives flavor description on inspects. E.g "You find lots of suspicious books in his house!". This is extension of "why not reveal flavor?" question.
Max, you've done zero scumhunting but are going to town with wild theories based on flavor. Do you really think who's scum has been written into the opening posts and whatever role PMs they choose to share like that?Now I have to point out a distinction here. I haven't been going off flavour as in 'Oh look, the victim has a stab wound in he's right side, and X said they were left handed, so it was them!', but rather I have shown a reason that a scum player would lie about their flavour (Because if they just told us all they were a witch they would be lynched) and pointed out that Urist was the most likely to have lied about he's flavour.
Here's a question: Why does it matter? Unless we're swimming in cops also, I really don't see this being a big enough deal to focus a lot of time and energy on.Why wouldn't it matter? Until we have some more to go off, everything matters.
And here. You're claiming to be encouraging everyone to play, but not doing it yourself. Why is that? You're not even throwing up a crackpot theory with it, you're just spouting pro-town jargon.I would like for people to be a little more active, yourself included. No really, do you think you have done enough to say anybody else isn't playing? Hell, Panda has had a greater impact on the game so far! This wasn't just standard 'Go team!' dribble, this was 'Get your ass into gear and do something!'
I AM GOING TO BE ACTIVE! :DOk, if you had reasons to be absent, and LNCP is ok with that, I am too. Unvote.
Max: So far I see a lot of setting up people as scum on metagame mechanics and flavor and basically nothing resembling actual hunting in the slightest. You pushed Urist a little bit but now don't seem to be DOING anything with him, even though you've announced you're suspicious of him repeatedly. And now you're voting Pandarsenic even though you're repeatedly saying "BUT WHAT IF IT'S A MISLYNCH WE NEED TO BE CAREFUL GUYS". Why vote him if you have so many reservations about him? Or are you just trying to give yourself a plausible excuse?Read above for the 'not doing anything' part.
Only Max, who drives me insane doing this shit every game.Love you too Panda :P
Now I have to point out a distinction here. I haven't been going off flavour as in 'Oh look, the victim has a stab wound in he's right side, and X said they were left handed, so it was them!', but rather I have shown a reason that a scum player would lie about their flavour (Because if they just told us all they were a witch they would be lynched) and pointed out that Urist was the most likely to have lied about he's flavour.Actually, there's a lot of reasons because of which one can lie about his flavour. Like being pretty much any power role, for instance.
Do you see the difference?
| Think0028 | - 0 - | |
| Vector | - 0 - | |
| Toaster | - 0 - | |
| Dariush | - 0 - | |
| Pandarsenic | - 2 - | Ottofar, Toaster, |
| TolyK | - 2 - | Simple, Jim Groovester, |
| Urist_McArathos | - 1 - | Max White, |
| IronyOwl | - 0 - | |
| Flandre | - 1 - | Think0028, |
| Simple | - 0 - | |
| Ottofar | - 0 - | |
| Jim Groovester | - 0 - | |
| Max White | - 3 - | IronyOwl, Think0028, Dariush, |
| - | ||
| Not Voting | - 5 - | TolyK, Vector, Pandarsenic, Flandre, Urist_McArathos, |
| No Lynch | - 0 - | |
| - | ||
| Extend | - 5 - | Jim Groovester, Toaster, Think0028, Max White, Pandarsenic |
| Shorten | - 0 - |
Can we please get another or a longer extension? 16 hours from now is so not enough.
LNCP: Dariush is voting for me, not Urist.
I would expect a power role to be less worried about constantly fitting in than the scum, and so refuse to give info, rather then lie to look like town.Power role should be worried about not revealing that it's a power role. Thus lying.
Is this your revenge for the last two times I had something to do with your lynching Dariush?Nope.
To pretty much force a mislynch. It will be a dumb theory if we don't get any reply, and Panda is lynch, and especially if he flips scum, and if so, no harm done, but it couldn't hurt to try.If he's scum it would be harmful...
What sort of power do you think requires knowing someone's name to use?Basically what urist said , getting some power over someone trough their name is pretty popular dark magic theme and while i don't expect this to be Death Note mafia something like role reveal or roleblock are sensibly powerful to be gained this way (which basically requires victim help). Besides that names are completely useless unless they are references so revealing them would bring no benefit to the town.
Thank you, Urist. I am familiar with this, but I wanted to ask Simple what he thought might be a Witch's role that required a name to use--how the idea might be engineered to fit into the game.You mean what Witch role ? Oooh That's interesting! I never know the witches have many different roles! Is there something else that you know about them Flandre ?
TL:DR That would be a drastic and scary change, with unpredictable impact on balance, and I as a player wouldn't like it.Would you reveal flavor-inspect result to the town ? I don't like bringing theories from nowhere that are used as a evidence of someone scuminess, bringing up theories about game mechanics or scum powers is fine if it does not interfere with scumhunt. And if i find some flavor to be non consistent it's rather obvious i will be interested in it.
While we're on the topic, Simple, why the continued interest in specific flavor details? I find it odd because you were critical of Max's constant theorizing, yet are doing some similar things yourself. It's odd, contradictory behavior to me.
I would expect a power role to be less worried about constantly fitting in than the scum, and so refuse to give info, rather then lie to look like town.So power roles are more suspicious to you than scum and you believe you would find power role first ?
Is this your revenge for the last two times I had something to do with your lynching Dariush?
Because, as your being up for lynch D1 of every game shows, you need to clean up your playstyle.I was trying to be a little more laid back in this game too, maybe have some fun trying to figure out what clues meant with others while scum try to be misleading about their interpritations. Well, these things happen. You get lynched until you learn how to play, and I wouldn't have it any other way. No Org sheilds, even for me.
If he's scum it would be harmful...If he was scum he would need to show up and explain himself or suffer a lynch.
So power roles are more suspicious to you than scum and you believe you would find power role first ?Power roles, or at least town ones, are looking for scum. Scum, on the other hand, are trying to hide. Making an attempt to lie about your flavour is trying to fit into the town through deceit.
IronyOwl, I'll grant you that Max White has been very odd this game, but tons of scumhunting isn't really something anybody has a definitive claim to so far. Why are you holding Max White accountable for it?Most people have been waffling around a bit, or poking at flavor while poking less at scumhunting. Max is being very active and focused, but it's in a mostly useless series of directions. If most people are lurking, he's activelurking.
You've pointed out that, assuming role PMs work like you've assumed they do, Urist is the closest match among people who responded at all. That's not as specific as something about books or what have you, but it shares a vital assumption, a sort of "must be one of them" approach, and a lack of any real way to go any further with it.Max, you've done zero scumhunting but are going to town with wild theories based on flavor. Do you really think who's scum has been written into the opening posts and whatever role PMs they choose to share like that?Now I have to point out a distinction here. I haven't been going off flavour as in 'Oh look, the victim has a stab wound in he's right side, and X said they were left handed, so it was them!', but rather I have shown a reason that a scum player would lie about their flavour (Because if they just told us all they were a witch they would be lynched) and pointed out that Urist was the most likely to have lied about he's flavour.
Do you see the difference?
For one thing, we're not talking about some offhand comment or idle speculation- this has been a major, major point of interest to you, including thinking way ahead to when we've got a lot of bodies to examine for it.Here's a question: Why does it matter? Unless we're swimming in cops also, I really don't see this being a big enough deal to focus a lot of time and energy on.Why wouldn't it matter? Until we have some more to go off, everything matters.
I wouldn't really call getting attention for lurking but not dying "a greater impact," or at least not in a way I'm supposed to be ashamed of. Yes, I've been lurky, but I've been trying to do stuff while I have been here- a lot of more frequent posters, yourself included, haven't been much more productive for it.And here. You're claiming to be encouraging everyone to play, but not doing it yourself. Why is that? You're not even throwing up a crackpot theory with it, you're just spouting pro-town jargon.I would like for people to be a little more active, yourself included. No really, do you think you have done enough to say anybody else isn't playing? Hell, Panda has had a greater impact on the game so far! This wasn't just standard 'Go team!' dribble, this was 'Get your ass into gear and do something!'
Sorry, nope. The game is about flavour, and I used that for finding scum.Do you think you succeeded?
*Sigh*
That makes four, so that must mean at least one townie is voting for me, assuming there are three scum. Why do I get the feeling I'm up for lynch today?Prior to that, what did you think the odds were that all three of your voters were scum?
It isn't about how much somebody gives or doesn't give, it is about how much somebody will chance their stance to try and fit into the town.If this is the real reason, why is this the first time it's been mentioned?
You've pointed out that, assuming role PMs work like you've assumed they do, Urist is the closest match among people who responded at all. That's not as specific as something about books or what have you, but it shares a vital assumption, a sort of "must be one of them" approach, and a lack of any real way to go any further with it.You didn't read what I said, did you? Not because he's role was too short, because he constantly changed he's stance to try and look like town. He bent over backwards contradicting himself to give me what he thought I wanted.
I mean, look at what you're doing with him now. Are you voting to pressure him, or lynch him? If it's pressure, pressure for what? What's he going to say that means he isn't scum anymore? If it's to lynch him, you'll be doing so solely because his role PM claim was too short. That doesn't seem incredibly weak to you?
You've pointed out that, assuming role PMs work like you've assumed they do, Urist is the closest match among people who responded at all. That's not as specific as something about books or what have you, but it shares a vital assumption, a sort of "must be one of them" approach, and a lack of any real way to go any further with it.
I mean, look at what you're doing with him now. Are you voting to pressure him, or lynch him? If it's pressure, pressure for what? What's he going to say that means he isn't scum anymore? If it's to lynch him, you'll be doing so solely because his role PM claim was too short. That doesn't seem incredibly weak to you?
For one thing, we're not talking about some offhand comment or idle speculation- this has been a major, major point of interest to you, including thinking way ahead to when we've got a lot of bodies to examine for it.If I'm speculating as to what to do when we have more bodies, why does it matter until we have the bodies? It isn't a point of interest until it is confirmed. It depends on getting more to go off, more millers.
Secondly, your approach, as I've mentioned, does not seem conducive to getting more to go off.
I wouldn't really call getting attention for lurking but not dying "a greater impact," or at least not in a way I'm supposed to be ashamed of. Yes, I've been lurky, but I've been trying to do stuff while I have been here- a lot of more frequent posters, yourself included, haven't been much more productive for it.My speculation is still more than your seven posts. Hell, even without the speculation I have more than you.
On that note, it doesn't matter what flavor the dribble was supposed to be, because it still wasn't led by example. Unless you meant "Everyone get off your asses and make wild speculation!"
Do you think you succeeded?Yes.
Prior to that, what did you think the odds were that all three of your voters were scum?Not likely, Think seemed to be the most likely for mirroring your argument, and looking for a new lynch the very second Panda shows up.
If this is the real reason, why is this the first time it's been mentioned?You really haven't read the thread, have you? Try to keep up, if you can;t contribute, you should make an effort to know what others have done.
I do a little. At first he insists that there is nothing more to he's role, but then when I point out a lack of detail he decides to inform us of the most interesting thing any bodies role has given yet, and then decides to keep quiet but insist he's role has all sorts of interesting things that he isn't telling us about.There you have it. I have been there, done that.
If a player thinks it is best to keep flavour to themselves, well so be it, but Urist has been inconsistent with he's stance, and seemed to bend every time there was a little pressure on him.
You know what, fuck that, why are we lynching one of the only two people trying to enjoy this game?
It says on the front page that flavour text counts, and it is good to read it, so why not use it? Why are you all so scared to do something fun and try and figure things out from the flavour? Vector and myself are the only two who seem to get this game and are trying to get in on it's quirks, and some of you are making a scare tactic of it.
So you want flavour for your scum hunting, but you don't want anybody to give it out? I'm not looking for power roles, and I don't think from what I have produced you can find them.
I would expect a power role to be less worried about constantly fitting in than the scum, and so refuse to give info, rather then lie to look like town.
Is this your revenge for the last two times I had something to do with your lynching Dariush?
Pandar: If you were scum, which person here would you most fear as scum? What about the reverse?
... Wut? If I was scum, I would most fear some derpist being scum because they might give me away... I guess? This question doesn't really make sense to me.
LNCP: At the time of that vote count, I was voting Pandar. Not any more, though.
This is you breaking, and I'm hard pressed to say it's you breaking town.It is me annoyed because everybody was willing to just ride the Panda lynch to the days end, until he turns up, then decide to vote for the only person trying to do anything.
What exactly are you looking for? Scum? I don't see how you intend to find it, even having read your posts. Why are you not performing traditional scum-hunting while going about your flavor methods?Why be traditional? Scum expect traditional, thus it is less effective. The more well known something is, the less effective it is, because people know how to react. Traditional is an excuse for not thinking.
Both refusing to provide info and lying are anti-town behaviors. Would you force a PR to do either to avoid giving himself away?You know that thing about reading the thread? You too.
I'm a bit in a hurry, but Simple seems scummy enough to vote.
| Think0028 | - 0 - | |
| Vector | - 0 - | |
| Toaster | - 0 - | |
| Dariush | - 0 - | |
| Pandarsenic | - 0 - | |
| NUKE9.13 | - 2 - | Simple, Jim Groovester, |
| Urist_McArathos | - 1 - | Max White, |
| IronyOwl | - 0 - | |
| Flandre | - 0 - | |
| Simple | - 0 - | |
| Ottofar | - 0 - | |
| Jim Groovester | - 0 - | |
| Max White | - 4 - | IronyOwl, Think0028, Dariush, Pandarsenic, |
| - | ||
| Not Voting | - 6 - | NUKE9.13, Vector, Flandre, Urist_McArathos, Toaster, Ottofar, |
| No Lynch | - 0 - | |
| - | ||
| Extend | - 5 - | Jim Groovester, Toaster, Think0028, Max White, Pandarsenic |
| Shorten | - 0 - |
Maybe you should me more careful with votes, seeing as the day ends in 4 hours?...
Flandre - 1 - Think0028, Max White - 4 - IronyOwl, Think0028, Dariush, Pandarsenic,
I'm a bit in a hurry, but Simple seems scummy enough to vote.Why exactly ?
Simple I would trust that info the same way I would if I was a vanilla cop. Seeing as how I've never been a cop before, I guess I'd have to wing it.Are you concerned that i'm asking more questions ? I asked you that question because your stance on flavor fishing was bit off to me. And why should i stop if i don't get answer that satisfies me ? Would you call being completely defensive and prodding lurkers a scumhunt ? No ? Because it's what you're doing right now, and i'm not going to stop looking for scum just because it bothers you.
This is your second question addressed, to me, about some rather specific role hypothetical scenarios. Are you rolefishing? Trying to figure out the likely cop strategy so you can plan? Because it doesn't seem much like scumhunting, Simple, and I wonder the purpose of it.
Vector: Have you found anything yet?
Hang, Lord Nincompoop.You do know he's the mod, right? *kicked out of the thread*
Hang, Lord Nincompoop.You do know he's the mod, right? *kicked out of the thread*
General scumminess.You can do better than that, Ottofar.
-My flavour also tells me that the inquisition frequently wipes out entire villages, then blames it on the witches.
The existence of witch roles were implied here:Thank you, Urist. I am familiar with this, but I wanted to ask Simple what he thought might be a Witch's role that required a name to use--how the idea might be engineered to fit into the game.You mean what Witch role ? Oooh That's interesting! I never know the witches have many different roles! Is there something else that you know about them Flandre ?
Also, witch covens typically fall in groups of three--mother, maiden, and crone.I am guessing that each flavor of witch would have there own ability.
Do we actually have any evidence of the existence of witches?Not that I have seen.
Nuke:Nope. It's just something I picked up whilst travelling through the region- I also get the impression that I am a little bit paranoid. As I said, it probably isn't actually the case; that would pretty much be a full-on bastard mod. But its not impossible, and should no witches emerge/should the inquisition get... pushy, then we have this fall-back theory.-My flavour also tells me that the inquisition frequently wipes out entire villages, then blames it on the witches.
Do you know how you came across this piece of information? It sounds too important to the plot for only you to know out of all fourteen of us.
Unvote, vote LNCPHas that ever worked? Even if it has, we are talking about thirteen basically unarmed villagers versus seven trained inquisitors; from a flavour perspective we would be better of trying to get the mod NK'd.
I suppose it'll be good to check if we can win just by kicking out the Inquisition first.
While your theory about it being safer to kill the mod through an NK makes sense, unless someone claims vigilante and attempts it at night, WITHOUT getting NKed in turn, we have no way to test your theory.They don't have to claim; they can just try it. If it works, and we win, huzzah. If it works and we lose, um, that would be pretty weird. If, more likely, LNCP replies 'LNCP is not a valid target', they can just pick someone else. THE PERFECT CRIME.
| Think0028 | - 0 - | |
| Vector | - 0 - | |
| Toaster | - 0 - | |
| Dariush | - 0 - | |
| Pandarsenic | - 0 - | |
| NUKE9.13 | - 0 - | |
| Urist_McArathos | - 1 - | Max White, |
| IronyOwl | - 0 - | |
| Flandre | - 0 - | |
| Simple | - 1 - | Urist_McArathos, |
| Ottofar | - 0 - | |
| Jim Groovester | - 0 - | |
| Max White | - 3 - | IronyOwl, Think0028, Dariush, |
| - | ||
| Not Voting | - 8 - | NUKE9.13, Toaster, Ottofar, Simple, Vector, Pandarsenic, Flandre, Jim Groovester, |
| No Lynch | - 0 - | |
| - | ||
| Extend | - 0 - | |
| Shorten | - 0 - |
This is the worst D1 ever. THE WORST.Pretty much. Everybody got distracted from Panda, and crossed their arms and said 'Well I'm done! No need to do anything else today'
General scumminess.Very insightful...
Simple: Way to twist my argument without answering my question. First off, I have no issue with asking questions. It's the fact you seem bizarrely interested in a very specific scenario. Second, if you can tell me how what you're doing qualifies as scum hunting, that'd be great. Because it looks a hell of a lot like trying to learn specifics about how I would play a cop. Are you sure it's scum you're looking for?What scenario exactly ? Unless one question is enough for you to qualify as great interest. If i can't understand reasoning behind your play than i ask about it. The point of my question was finding out what really your opinion on flavor sharing is because you seemed a bit inconsistent or at least not throughout enough about it. And maybe i'm blind but i don't see you questioning dariush or me before this post. And if you really are so opposed to open discussion it's your choice.
Oh, by the way, nice strawman there. Let's see, who am I questioning? You and Dariush. Nope, don't see any workers there. Defensive behavior? Yeah, answering your questions freely, then asking you the point is clearly a scramble to clear my name.
No Simple, I think I know who's really acting scum here. You could have just told me why you were so interested in discussing flavor cops, but opted to attack me and throw out some BS to discredit me. THAT is defensive. Nice try. Simple
Simple:So you just take vector speculation as granted ?The existence of witch roles were implied here:Thank you, Urist. I am familiar with this, but I wanted to ask Simple what he thought might be a Witch's role that required a name to use--how the idea might be engineered to fit into the game.You mean what Witch role ? Oooh That's interesting! I never know the witches have many different roles! Is there something else that you know about them Flandre ?Also, witch covens typically fall in groups of three--mother, maiden, and crone.I am guessing that each flavor of witch would have there own ability.
Who do you suspect ? And another : Who do you suspect without taking flavor into account ?This is the worst D1 ever. THE WORST.Pretty much. Everybody got distracted from Panda, and crossed their arms and said 'Well I'm done! No need to do anything else today'
Also,
No questions for me anybody? Not even a little? You guys aren't even trying. If you think I am scum, you would think I know the other scum, and you would be pressing a little for anything I say.
Who do you suspect ? And another : Who do you suspect without taking flavor into account ?Think, for him today has been nothing more than;
So you just take vector speculation as granted ?What she said is completely verifiable, so it is hardly speculation.
Why be traditional? Scum expect traditional, thus it is less effective. The more well known something is, the less effective it is, because people know how to react. Traditional is an excuse for not thinking.
Thank you, Urist. I am familiar with this, but I wanted to ask Simple what he thought might be a Witch's role that required a name to use--how the idea might be engineered to fit into the game.You mean what Witch role ? Oooh That's interesting! I never know the witches have many different roles! Is there something else that you know about them Flandre ?
Unvote Pandar
I haven't posted due to having no real leads. And because I scumhunt terribadly. I'm usually better at knowing who's the scum.
I'm a bit in a hurry, but Simple seems scummy enough to vote.
General scumminess.
always coming - and passing - in threes.They come in threes, or so we have been told.
| Think0028 | - 0 - | |
| Vector | - 0 - | |
| Toaster | - 0 - | |
| Dariush | - 0 - | |
| Pandarsenic | - 0 - | |
| NUKE9.13 | - 0 - | |
| Urist_McArathos | - 1 - | Max White, |
| IronyOwl | - 0 - | |
| Flandre | - 0 - | |
| Simple | - 1 - | Urist_McArathos, |
| Ottofar | - 1 - | Jim Groovester, |
| Jim Groovester | - 0 - | |
| Max White | - 3 - | IronyOwl, Think0028, Dariush, |
| - | ||
| Not Voting | - 7 - | NUKE9.13, Toaster, Ottofar, Simple, Vector, Pandarsenic, Flandre, |
| No Lynch | - 0 - | |
| - | ||
| Extend | - 1 - | Flandre |
| Shorten | - 0 - |
Could someone try something for me? Vote for one of the armored (or unarmored, for that matter) members of the Inquisition (furthest on the left, #2, whatever). I suspect it's not bastardy enough for that, but I'd like to at least try it.What are you thinking?
I'd do it myself, but I'd rather not leave Max at 2 votes for tie-related shenanigans.
| Think0028 | - 0 - | |
| Vector | - 0 - | |
| Toaster | - 0 - | |
| Dariush | - 0 - | |
| Pandarsenic | - 0 - | |
| NUKE9.13 | - 0 - | |
| Urist_McArathos | - 0 - | |
| IronyOwl | - 0 - | |
| Flandre | - 0 - | |
| Simple | - 1 - | Urist_McArathos, |
| Ottofar | - 0 - | |
| Jim Groovester | - 0 - | |
| Max White | - 2 - | Think0028, Dariush, |
| - | ||
| Not Voting | - 10 - | NUKE9.13, Toaster, Ottofar, Simple, Vector, Pandarsenic, Flandre, Jim Groovester, Max White, IronyOwl, |
| No Lynch | - 0 - | |
| - | ||
| Extend | - 1 - | Flandre |
| Shorten | - 0 - |
| Think0028 | - 0 - | |
| Toaster | - 0 - | |
| Dariush | - 0 - | |
| Pandarsenic | - 0 - | |
| NUKE9.13 | - 0 - | |
| Urist_McArathos | - 0 - | |
| IronyOwl | - 0 - | |
| Flandre | - 0 - | |
| Simple | - 0 - | |
| Jim Groovester | - 0 - | |
| - | ||
| Not Voting | - 10 - | NUKE9.13, Toaster, Simple, Pandarsenic, Flandre, Jim Groovester, IronyOwl, Urist_McArathos, Think0028, Dariush, |
| No Lynch | - 0 - | |
| - | ||
| Extend | - 0 - | |
| Shorten | - 0 - |
posting to follow the thread, because someone (LNCP) didn't mention it was starting so I could follow.
Things are not looking up for us. Three townies dead already...
Flandre:I forgot about Bd's death to inactivity during D1. Three millers and one villager have died in total, making for four dead townies. Sorry.Things are not looking up for us. Three townies dead already...
Something you'd like to tell us about how you call four dead bodies three townies?
I read through my PM again, and I took notice of some minor flavor text that I haven't thought was worth mentioning until now, because it was relayed to me by word of mouth as news going around town. Apparently, witches can possess people, and are behind the crop failures. If this is true, then it may be that not only can anyone be a witch (as indicated by the flavor text at the beginning), but it may be possible to become a witch.
I have a theory that some of us may have small details or fragmented rumors that alone do not seem too important, but collaboratively, could give us something to work with.
Everyone: What do we know about the witches?
...and LNCP for good measure.
Fine. Vote Inquisitor #3.Because obviously riding one failed bastardwagon is not enough, right, Flandre?
IronyOwl, your chance to switch the majority is now.
You also mentioned giants and golems specifically (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=89396.msg2542752#msg2542752), and what do you know, something kills Ottofar with wide footsteps. Maybe you'd like to elaborate a little?I'd gladly elaborate, but unfortunately I'm unable to. I said everything I knew about the creature. Maybe someone else got some flavor tonight that would help to learn more about it.
| Think0028 | - 0 - | |
| Toaster | - 0 - | |
| Dariush | - 0 - | |
| Pandarsenic | - 0 - | |
| NUKE9.13 | - 0 - | |
| Urist_McArathos | - 0 - | |
| IronyOwl | - 0 - | |
| Flandre | - 1 - | Dariush, |
| Simple | - 0 - | |
| Jim Groovester | - 0 - | |
| - | ||
| Not Voting | - 9 - | NUKE9.13, Toaster, Simple, Pandarsenic, Flandre, Jim Groovester, IronyOwl, Urist_McArathos, Think0028, |
| No Lynch | - 0 - | |
| - | ||
| Extend | - 0 - | |
| Shorten | - 0 - |
LNCP: Wasn't Ottofar voting Simple at day end? Shouldn't that have caused a tie?
Simple: I must say I wasn't impressed with your scum hunting yesterday- I get the feeling you were scum looking, not scum hunting. Are you going to hunt today?I'll try my best. To be honest i were rather confused d1 about how bastard this game is but looks like we should just forget about it for now.
...and LNCP for good measure.Fine. Vote Inquisitor #3.Because obviously riding one failed bastardwagon is not enough, right, Flandre?
IronyOwl, your chance to switch the majority is now.
Pandar: Who cares? Down that road lies much wine.
What are you getting at? How is this a reason to suspect somebody, especially in a bastard game?
And why do I feel like you only voted Flandre because Toaster voted her?
Nuke: Have you gone through the posts enough to come up with anything solid yet?Nothing solid.
Jim: My PM talks about my bakery and not much else, unfortunately.Not really.
NUKE9.13: You managed to go through D1 with no significant actions whatsoever. Do you have any suspicions now?
This is very silly. Very, very silly. Are you messing around, figuring that we are still in RVS and things need shaking up, or do you know something about flandre? Because I refuse to believe that you seriously think this is a good enough reason to vote for someone....and LNCP for good measure.Fine. Vote Inquisitor #3.Because obviously riding one failed bastardwagon is not enough, right, Flandre?
IronyOwl, your chance to switch the majority is now.
And it may have no basis, but it makes more sense than someone choosing to kill Ottofar, Town Liability #1.Could it not have been a vigilante?
Jim: My PM talks about my bakery and not much else, unfortunately.Really? Not to question you, but, well, I question this. Everyone else has had at least a few random background things aside from their profession. A hobby, a rumour heard about witches. Frankly, I consider your PM containing nothing other than "you're a boring baker" so unlikely as to consider it suspicious to state that this is the case.
SimpleCould you reiterate this case? Day 1 was huge, but largely insubstantial. We would be better off keeping day 2 clear and organised.
I'm still standing by my case from yesterday for now, though I'm definitely curious about what's going on today.
DariushDitto
I asked you a question at the close of Day 1, probably got lost in the last-minute theories about the guards. Please answer me if you could now that the moment of excitement has passed.
Due to the massive slump in activity, the Day has been modextended to Friday, 9PM GMT.Thank you. I apologize for being too busy to play recently.
IronyOwl, I didn't like your attitude towards Max White. In a sea of players who weren't scumhunting very much or at all, why did you choose him for your vote and hold his lack of scumhunting as an accusation against him?You already asked about this, and I already explained it. It wasn't that he simply wasn't scumhunting, it was that he was active but playing completely without it.
What are you getting at? How is this a reason to suspect somebody, especially in a bastard game?She votes LNCP, sees it doesn't work... and immediatly switches to Inquisitor, which doesn't work either. I want to see her explanation why she didn't make a real vote. Consider it a pressure vote.
And why do I feel like you only voted Flandre because Toaster voted her?Actually, that's wrong. Or are you implying that I attempted to jump on a bandwagon (with an entirely different reason)... consisting of a whopping one vote?
DariushYep, I missed it back then. But why do you bring it up? Why is it so important which suspects I had on D1? And in any case I can't remember my thoughts from then.
I asked you a question at the close of Day 1, probably got lost in the last-minute theories about the guards. Please answer me if you could now that the moment of excitement has passed.
This is very silly. Very, very silly. Are you messing around, figuring that we are still in RVS and things need shaking up, or do you know something about flandre? Because I refuse to believe that you seriously think this is a good enough reason to vote for someone.Wow, this is the largest piece of hypocrisy ever shoved in one post. You accuse me of baselessly voting Flandre... and immediatly do the same with Think, adding that 'you have no better leads'. If you have no leads, maybe you should scumhunt and search for them?
...
Not to OMGUS, but I have no better leads than this, so, Think0028
Uhhh... why are you answering questions directed to other people?SimpleCould you reiterate this case? Day 1 was huge, but largely insubstantial. We would be better off keeping day 2 clear and organised.
I'm still standing by my case from yesterday for now, though I'm definitely curious about what's going on today.QuoteDariushDitto
I asked you a question at the close of Day 1, probably got lost in the last-minute theories about the guards. Please answer me if you could now that the moment of excitement has passed.
Uhhh... why are you answering questions directed to other people?Because I can't tell whether Urist is making a shitty case against Simple or not if I don't know what the case is, and I can't find the case in day 1, because it is friggin huge.
In this situation, I berated you for voting for a stupid reason. I then voted for a sensible reason.Voting someone for not posting full flavor is sensible reason?
In this situation, you removed the actual reason for me voting Think, thereby making it seem like I said that I had no better leads than OMGUS'ing him.I read your reason, deemed it un-sensible and saw no need to include it in my response. I wasn't even aware Think was voting you when I made that post. However, now that you bring it up... You really did OMGUS him with a ridiculously weak reasoning. It looks like you're desperately scraping every surface for future attack, and overdefend yourself while doing it.
SimpleSo despite of today events you will not change the vote ? What makes you so sure nothing will change your decision ?
I'm still standing by my case from yesterday for now, though I'm definitely curious about what's going on today.
What are you getting at? How is this a reason to suspect somebody, especially in a bastard game?She votes LNCP, sees it doesn't work... and immediatly switches to Inquisitor, which doesn't work either. I want to see her explanation why she didn't make a real vote. Consider it a pressure vote.
And why do I feel like you only voted Flandre because Toaster voted her?Actually, that's wrong. Or are you implying that I attempted to jump on a bandwagon (with an entirely different reason)... consisting of a whopping one vote?
Hypocrisy is when you berate someone for doing something, then doing that same thing yourself. In mafia, it can be a scumtell.
Jim Groovester: I belive you are our SK. That's all.
Nuke: Does getting stomped flat sound like a vigilante to you?Not really, but it sounds better than getting blown up in a demonic ritual.
Hmm hmm, hmm.In this situation, I berated you for voting for a stupid reason. I then voted for a sensible reason.Voting someone for not posting full flavor is sensible reason?In this situation, you removed the actual reason for me voting Think, thereby making it seem like I said that I had no better leads than OMGUS'ing him.I read your reason, deemed it un-sensible and saw no need to include it in my response. I wasn't even aware Think was voting you when I made that post. However, now that you bring it up... You really did OMGUS him with a ridiculously weak reasoning. It looks like you're desperately scraping every surface for future attack, and overdefend yourself while doing it.
I wasn't even aware Think was voting you when I made that post~Then why the FLAMING FUDGE would I say 'Not to OMGUS, but'Which, you understand, makes your attack of me seem hasty and poorly-founded.
Nuke9.13: Why you chosen Think if you have no leads ?Here we see a victim of selective editing. What Dariush could have quoted, if disinclined towards bullshit:
See, I did have a lead. Not that Think voted for me, but that think claimed to have an exceptionally bare role PM. This is not an especially damning piece of evidence, but enough, I felt, to vote for Think until he explained this stunning lack of flavour.Jim: My PM talks about my bakery and not much else, unfortunately.Really? Not to question you, but, well, I question this. Everyone else has had at least a few random background things aside from their profession. A hobby, a rumour heard about witches. Frankly, I consider your PM containing nothing other than "you're a boring baker" so unlikely as to consider it suspicious to state that this is the case.
Are you absolutely sure you don't have some hobby or rumour? You don't read books or invest in coffee? Your character was totally uninterested in the rumours of witches that permeated the countryside?
Not to OMGUS, but I have no better leads than this, so, Think0028
I pose that a town player has no reason not to play by his own best judgement; scum may be inclined to accuse people of things they consider acceptable behaviour just to get mislynches.Hypocrisy is when you berate someone for doing something, then doing that same thing yourself. In mafia, it can be a scumtell.Hypocrisy is not a scumtell. It just makes you a hypocrite.
| Think0028 | - 1 - | NUKE9.13, |
| Toaster | - 0 - | |
| Dariush | - 2 - | Jim Groovester, Simple, |
| Pandarsenic | - 0 - | |
| NUKE9.13 | - 1 - | Think0028, |
| Urist_McArathos | - 0 - | |
| IronyOwl | - 0 - | |
| Flandre | - 1 - | Dariush, |
| Simple | - 2 - | Urist_McArathos, Toaster, |
| Jim Groovester | - 0 - | |
| - | ||
| Not Voting | - 3 - | Pandarsenic, Flandre, IronyOwl, |
| No Lynch | - 0 - | |
| - | ||
| Extend | - 1 - | Pandarsenic, |
| Shorten | - 0 - |
Not that Think voted for me, but that think claimed to have an exceptionally bare role PM. This is not an especially damning piece of evidence, but enough, I felt, to vote for Think until he explained this stunning lack of flavour.
Because obviously riding one failed bastardwagon is not enough, right, Flandre?
This is very silly. Very, very silly. Are you messing around, figuring that we are still in RVS and things need shaking up, or do you know something about flandre? Because I refuse to believe that you seriously think this is a good enough reason to vote for someone.NUKE: I don't think that it was that silly. He was probably looking for something to attack, and my bandwagon-hopping was the shiniest. I almost can't really blame him, because most of D1 was unspectacular and dull by comparison. Are you suggesting that I was bussed?
Hmm hmm, hmm.This is a stretch. Withholding everything that did not involve being a baker would qualify as 'not posting full flavor'. Or am I missing something?
Wait a minute.
What do you mean, Not Posting Full Flavour? There's more? Well, that's not what Think said. I thought there probably was, but the way you phrase it, seems like you're quite certain.
Almost as if... you know there's more.
-Ah. Overdefending. Accusation of last resort for weak attacks. However, a word of advice:
OVERDEFENDING.
IS.
A FALLACY.
'Overdefending' is not a scumtell. Being able to explain your actions in meticulous detail just means that you had a good reason for performing said actions. Pre-emptively explaining your actions saves people time. If the action has no reason/a stupid reason, it cannot be explained.
I pose that a town player has no reason not to play by his own best judgement; scum may be inclined to accuse people of things they consider acceptable behaviour just to get mislynches.
Urist: I still don't understand how asking two questions on the same topic is scummy... Unless that's not the core argument in your case agains me ? Or your just bad at playing as Lyncher ? D1 you were pretty consistent about going after me but you never voted even when you were claiming you have no other leads, that's bit suspicious don't you think ?
Dariush your D1 play consisted of slight rolefishing,meta-theories and you start this day with semi-random vote. How long do you want to prolong this type of play ? Do you even have some suspects at this point ?Let's see... Nuke is a scumbag (more about him below), Flandre became less suspicious after her answer, but I'm still not entirely satisfied (more below) and Pandar is lurking and parroting, as per usual.
Dariush: I see nothing wrong with making unorthodox votes at non-player entities, even if I was not the one who came up with the idea. I agree that these were bandwagons, and that I have jumped aboard the both of them, but it is not quite the same as voting to lynch another player on borrowed evidence. The worst that could have happened in the latter case (for example) was the lynching of an inquisitor townie, but a breakthrough like that would have been invaluable regardless.But why didn't you change your vote after seeing that both votes ended up being counted as unvotes?
Dariush: I see nothing wrong with making unorthodox votes at non-player entities, even if I was not the one who came up with the idea. I agree that these were bandwagons, and that I have jumped aboard the both of them, but it is not quite the same as voting to lynch another player on borrowed evidence. The worst that could have happened in the latter case (for example) was the lynching of an inquisitor townie, but a breakthrough like that would have been invaluable regardless.But why didn't you change your vote after seeing that both votes ended up being counted as unvotes?
Jim and Urist, I voted for Flandre above others because she was the only to vote both LNCP and the Inquisitor. That is the sole reason.
Now, Nuke...Interesting that you wait until I have three votes on me before voting yourself. None of these points have changed (much) since your last post. No, this is bandwagoning. Waiting for external support for your case before joining.
No I don't. See my next point for the critical difference:Hey, you make it sound like anybody who adds a fourth or later vote is a bandwagoner regardless of other circumstances.Quote from: dariushNow, Nuke...Interesting that you wait until I have three votes on me before voting yourself. None of these points have changed (much) since your last post. No, this is bandwagoning. Waiting for external support for your case before joining.
Want a real eye-opener? People need to sleep. You posted in my night, other people voted you in the same night.But everything you list were already complaining about at the time of your last post
Also I presented you a list of valid reasons, half of which you discarded and the other half twisted into OMGUSy scumtells.Of your reasons, I only discarded your accusation of OMGUS. I didn't think it worth explaining, but here:
Somehow your 'defence' only lengthens the list of your offences.My defence was already on your list of offences, numbnuts.
Jim and Urist, I voted for Flandre above others because she was the only to vote both LNCP and the Inquisitor. That is the sole reason.
You OMGUSed Think and me.
That wasn't a lynch vote, but a pressure one - I wanted to see how she would explain her votes.Jim and Urist, I voted for Flandre above others because she was the only to vote both LNCP and the Inquisitor. That is the sole reason.
That's some pretty weak reasoning.
He didn't vote me, but instead attacked and FoSed me out of blue after pretty much ignoring me before that. OMGUS doesn't necessarily involve a vote.You OMGUSed Think and me.
He never OMGUSed you. What are you talking about?
Nuke: I see. I'll just have to disagree with you on overdefending. I'll be curious to see that scumhunting you promised, since you spent so much time defending yourself without putting out any serious new attacks.I think I've said all there is to say on that matter, so we will have to agree to disagree.
Since you're not currently voting, who is your top suspect? Why?
| Think0028 | - 0 - | |
| Toaster | - 0 - | |
| Dariush | - 3 - | Jim Groovester, Simple, NUKE9.13, |
| Pandarsenic | - 0 - | |
| NUKE9.13 | - 4 - | Think0028, Pandarsenic, Urist_McArathos, Dariush, |
| Urist_McArathos | - 0 - | |
| IronyOwl | - 0 - | |
| Flandre | - 0 - | |
| Simple | - 1 - | Toaster, |
| Jim Groovester | - 0 - | |
| - | ||
| Not Voting | - 2 - | Flandre, IronyOwl, |
| No Lynch | - 0 - | |
| - | ||
| Extend | - 1 - | Pandarsenic, |
| Shorten | - 0 - |
| Think0028 | - 0 - | |
| Toaster | - 0 - | |
| Dariush | - 0 - | |
| IronyOwl | - 0 - | |
| Flandre | - 0 - | |
| Simple | - 0 - | |
| - | ||
| Not Voting | - 6 - | Flandre, IronyOwl, Think0028, Dariush, Simple, Toaster, |
| No Lynch | - 0 - | |
| - | ||
| Extend | - 0 - | |
| Shorten | - 0 - |
You need 5 players to Extend and 8 players to Shorten.Just noting that your math is a bit off there.
You need 5 players to Extend and 8 players to Shorten.Just noting that your math is a bit off there.
Jim: Assuming you were a cop: Would you instantly claim a scum result under any circumstance? If you had a town result on someone who was headed for a lynch, would you be their knight in shining armor and claim to save them?
which headed to this village and I approached through woods.
Interesting claim.At N0, I slept in a barn, but planned to rent a room. Apparently, I somehow forgot about it and continued returning to the barn the following nights. My wincon is finding the bracelet.
Where do you sleep at night? Can you explicitly state your wincon?
Ooh so you could be the lone stranger in opening ?Interesting claim.At N0, I slept in a barn, but planned to rent a room. Apparently, I somehow forgot about it and continued returning to the barn the following nights. My wincon is finding the bracelet.
Where do you sleep at night? Can you explicitly state your wincon?
What happens if the holder dies?The bracelet is destroyed, thus rendering my quest unwinnable (though it isn't specified whether or not I'll be aware of it).
If you find it while searching, do you just take it and leave or do you kill the person who had it?I 'am famed for my clean work', so I assume I just take it.
Do you have any abilities besides searching a target?No.
Ooh so you could be the lone stranger in opening ?Uh, what are you talking about? I don't see any mention of any lone strangers.
Hi. I'm the Medium, and the witches have lost. I was a Medium,
Jim was Lovers with Flandre
They saw Dariush leaving the scene of Vector's death.
| Think0028 | - 1 - | Toaster, |
| Toaster | - 0 - | |
| Dariush | - 1 - | Think0028, |
| IronyOwl | - 1 - | Dariush, |
| Flandre | - 1 - | Simple, |
| Simple | - 0 - | |
| - | ||
| Not Voting | - 2 - | Flandre, IronyOwl, |
| No Lynch | - 0 - | |
| - | ||
| Extend | - 0 - | |
| Shorten | - 0 - |
Ah fuck, tried to catch a typo.
Think0028, my role PM states that if Flandre died, I wouldn't necessarily die immediately, but I could die immediately. I imagine it was the same way for Flandre.
Also, I got word of Dariush leaving Vector's house in my result for Night 1. This was a passive ability, where I occasionally get notice of magical happenings during the night. It also explicitly said Dariush was a wizard, because there was magical falloff coming off of him, after a large column of light came from Vector's house. (Apparently I am one of few people who can see magic.)
Also, our wincons say that we have to eliminate the villagers but our flavor indicates no malicious intent whatsoever. Something's up when we have a one shot resurrect we can't use on ourselves.
Also, tell Toaster to stop being dense.
Also, tell everybody that Simple is probably one of the killers because, "Oh, I'm just a simple villager! Not a jot more to say about that!" Liar liar liar liar. Oh, and how he's totally buddying up to Toaster just now.
Also, Toaster is probably who he says he is, because as a witch I did own a pair of iron boots. This was before I possessed the landlord's son, however. Apparently I kept them afterwards, which is news to me.
Jim/Think: Problem over Dariush is that I believe his claim for the same reason that you believe mine- he correctly pointed out something from my flavor that I hadn't mentioned (the fact that I sleep in the chair). It's something that I seriously doubt he'd guess.
The thing is that his wincon is extremely hard, even for a third party- almost too hard. I'd believe that there's something he's not telling us still.
I forgot this:Yeah, that's probably me. Though I don't know what 'dog death' has to do with it. Or maybe it referred to the hound?...
Dariush: there's a mention of lone stranger in the barn in the first post of this thread.
*Dariush: This is Day 3- did you mean N0/1/2 instead of N1/2/3?Yes, that's what I meant.
Many people are missing from deadchat: Nuke, Max, and Bd's souls are all missing, presumably taken by someone.Ooookaaaay... Souls are missing? This fits in with my employer's warning about golem. Probably if I find the bracelet, the souls will be released. Also, I can confirm Think's claim - I didn't mention it, by I'm using a simple spell to track the bracelet. I think that it's magic is what was noticed by Jim and that is why my employer warned me about witches.
We were here to observe something important, still don't know what. Hopefully Dariush's death will tell more.
Okay, I admit to taking the most bullshit way out of this.I don't like this. In addition to either informing me ahead of time that your scumhunting of me is toothless or preemptively admitting that you're trying to lynch for terrible reasons, what do you mean by "way out of this?" That doesn't sound like a "we need to find scum" type phrase.
Irony, you're the only who didn't interact with Urist in the entire game whatsoever.To be honest, I suspect there's a number of people I haven't interacted with meaningfully all game; my activity hasn't been as high as I'd like.
Yeah, that's probably me. Though I don't know what 'dog death' has to do with it. Or maybe it referred to the hound?...So... you raggedly dragged yourself into a barn in the dead of night and just sort of stayed there night after night, never bothering to so much as rent a room.
I didn't mention it, by I'm using a simple spell to track the bracelet. I think that it's magic is what was noticed by Jim and that is why my employer warned me about witches.This is just way too convenient. "Oh yeah, I'm here because of a wizard. What's that, you say I am a wizard? Uh, no, I'm perfectly clean-shaven, that's probably just this spell I have here that I forgot to mention, plus my wizard employer is here pinning the blame on me for some reason!"
PPE: My description clearly mentions that I'm clean-shaven. Huh, it looks like my wizard is also in the village and he's the one doing the killings, trying to blame it on me using the spell.
Okay, so witches don't have anything to do with NK. If Think tells the truth, Flandre is one, which leaves Irony and Simple as a golem and whoever explodes people.And here you forget about your own bullshit wizard claim. Not "the wizard," not "my employer," not even "the guy who's setting me up." Instead, it's "whoever this mysterious person is who's exploding people using unknown means and for whatever reason."
So... you raggedly dragged yourself into a barn in the dead of night and just sort of stayed there night after night, never bothering to so much as rent a room.The fuck? Do you have any basis for your words?
Yet you're clean-shaven.
I wanted to pressure Think first, but this is just too obvious, Dariush. You're a lying wizard who lives in a barn.
Tell me. What does this do to your wincon if the only reason you're here is to fetch an item for someone who's setting you up?I'll first fulfill it and then see the results.
While I was writing that post, Think quoted the appearance of the killer, so before I saw his post, I had no idea about who the killer may be. Now, why are you so sure that I knew that the wizard was doing the killings? Are you one yourself?Okay, so witches don't have anything to do with NK. If Think tells the truth, Flandre is one, which leaves Irony and Simple as a golem and whoever explodes people.And here you forget about your own bullshit wizard claim. Not "the wizard," not "my employer," not even "the guy who's setting me up." Instead, it's "whoever this mysterious person is who's exploding people using unknown means and for whatever reason."
Also, I can confirm Think's claim - I didn't mention it, by I'm using a simple spell to track the bracelet. I think that it's magic is what was noticed by Jim and that is why my employer warned me about witches.
Okay, so witches don't have anything to do with NK. If Think tells the truth, Flandre is one, which leaves Irony and Simple as a golem and whoever explodes people.
PPE: My description clearly mentions that I'm clean-shaven. Huh, it looks like my wizard is also in the village and he's the one doing the killings, trying to blame it on me using the spell. In any case, both Irony and Simple are SKs, so my vote remains unchanged.
I refuse to believe that you're clean-shaven enough for it to be worth mentioning in your role PM, yet living in a goddamned barn.So... you raggedly dragged yourself into a barn in the dead of night and just sort of stayed there night after night, never bothering to so much as rent a room.The fuck? Do you have any basis for your words?
Yet you're clean-shaven.
I wanted to pressure Think first, but this is just too obvious, Dariush. You're a lying wizard who lives in a barn.
Let me rephrase that.Tell me. What does this do to your wincon if the only reason you're here is to fetch an item for someone who's setting you up?I'll first fulfill it and then see the results.
Wait a second. Why did you immediately believe the witches had nothing to do with the killings if you didn't assume a wizard did it?While I was writing that post, Think quoted the appearance of the killer, so before I saw his post, I had no idea about who the killer may be. Now, why are you so sure that I knew that the wizard was doing the killings? Are you one yourself?Okay, so witches don't have anything to do with NK. If Think tells the truth, Flandre is one, which leaves Irony and Simple as a golem and whoever explodes people.And here you forget about your own bullshit wizard claim. Not "the wizard," not "my employer," not even "the guy who's setting me up." Instead, it's "whoever this mysterious person is who's exploding people using unknown means and for whatever reason."
Dariush:Where did I change it? Yes, I didn't mention every single fucking little detail that may or may not have relevance. If I mention everything, it wouldn't be any different from copying role PM (which would actually be the easiest way to do that).Also, I can confirm Think's claim - I didn't mention it, by I'm using a simple spell to track the bracelet. I think that it's magic is what was noticed by Jim and that is why my employer warned me about witches.
Changing your claim again, hmm?
Jim is a witch. Flandre is his lover. Thus, she is also a witch, unless I'm misunderstanding the way it works. Since we have roles of four people, that leaves Irony and Simple as our SKs.Okay, so witches don't have anything to do with NK. If Think tells the truth, Flandre is one, which leaves Irony and Simple as a golem and whoever explodes people.
You're going to have to back up that accusation with facts or reasoning.
PPE: My description clearly mentions that I'm clean-shaven. Huh, it looks like my wizard is also in the village and he's the one doing the killings, trying to blame it on me using the spell. In any case, both Irony and Simple are SKs, so my vote remains unchanged.
SMELLS LIKE BULLSHIT
Unvote Think.
Dariush.
You're going to have to back up that accusation with facts or reasoning.Nice little bit of hypocrisy you put there.
At least tell me how you knew I slept in the chair- it's the only thing that's bugging the hell out of me.Already did.
I refuse to believe that you're clean-shaven enough for it to be worth mentioning in your role PM, yet living in a goddamned barn.LNCP mentioned a whole load of little details, among which was my clean-shavedness. I judged it was relevant now, so I revealed it. Also what the fuck does the fact that I'm clean-shaven and leave in a barn have to do with each other?
Wow, nice. Did you expect LNCP to add in my role PM "Little did you know that the wizard was also going to the village to run around murdering people and frame you for it"? No, I didn't know anything about it until Think's quote of Jim's words. How about you support your accusations with... anything? Except asspulls, that is.Let me rephrase that.Tell me. What does this do to your wincon if the only reason you're here is to fetch an item for someone who's setting you up?I'll first fulfill it and then see the results.
You need to find an amulet for a guy who's running around murdering people and framing you for it, yet you don't know anything about it and aren't on his team.
Bullshit.
Uh. Because Think quoted Jim that they didn't have an NK?Wait a second. Why did you immediately believe the witches had nothing to do with the killings if you didn't assume a wizard did it?While I was writing that post, Think quoted the appearance of the killer, so before I saw his post, I had no idea about who the killer may be. Now, why are you so sure that I knew that the wizard was doing the killings? Are you one yourself?Okay, so witches don't have anything to do with NK. If Think tells the truth, Flandre is one, which leaves Irony and Simple as a golem and whoever explodes people.And here you forget about your own bullshit wizard claim. Not "the wizard," not "my employer," not even "the guy who's setting me up." Instead, it's "whoever this mysterious person is who's exploding people using unknown means and for whatever reason."
By the way, after reading that quote, do you (that means everyone) really think that a wizard would've been given an NK that can be passively detected by a witch? 'A large column of light coming from Vector's house'? Seriously?
Dariush: Fine: not changing it, but adding little details after the fact to excuse what others are claiming against you.Ahem. How was I supposed to know that my facial hair will concern someone in the future?
On lovers: It's actually very frequent in Mafia games that lovers are not of the same alignment.I've never seen a game with this role, but whatever. Let's see what Flandre prepared for us in her roleclaim.
I'll grant you the fact and reasoning bit, so here we go:I stated a theory which may or may not be true (but probably is). Again, I had no way of knowing that the fact I'm using a spell to track a bracelet would be relevant in the future. Do you take me for an Oracle?
You state your claim (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=89396.msg2580050#msg2580050). Jim (via Think) claims something that implicates you (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=89396.msg2580653#msg2580653). You change your claim to accommodate that (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=89396.msg2581798#msg2581798) and then propose something completely outlandish to explain yourself.
Clear?
Do you really think that a wizard would bother sending you down here and then follow you, start killing people, and then try to frame you for it?Why not? This is a bastard mod, after all.
Do you really think that you'd be given such a hard wincon?No, I really think that finding the bracelet isn't my actual wincon, but I have no way of learning the real one before I fulfill the present one (probably).
Dariush:What this spell is supposed to do ?Just find the bracelet.
What is the effect when you target wrong person ?I 'feel tickling in my fingers'.
And stop lying about your wincon. It's clearly stated that mod will never directly lie so you the wincon you got must be true. Of course i don't believe it's the one you revealed.If the mod doesn't lie, I'm stuck with the one I have. I told the truth, believe it or not.
| Think0028 | - 0 - | |
| Toaster | - 0 - | |
| Dariush | - 3 - | Think0028, IronyOwl, Toaster, |
| IronyOwl | - 1 - | Dariush, |
| Flandre | - 1 - | Simple, |
| Simple | - 0 - | |
| - | ||
| Not Voting | - 1 - | Flandre, |
| No Lynch | - 0 - | |
| - | ||
| Extend | - 0 - | |
| Shorten | - 0 - |
The Day will end in 30 minutes.Oh great, extend.
| Think0028 | - 0 - | |
| Toaster | - 0 - | |
| Dariush | - 3 - | Think0028, IronyOwl, Toaster, |
| IronyOwl | - 1 - | Dariush, |
| Flandre | - 1 - | Simple, |
| Simple | - 0 - | |
| - | ||
| Not Voting | - 1 - | Flandre, |
| No Lynch | - 0 - | |
| - | ||
| Extend | - 3 - | Flandre, Dariush, IronyOwl |
| Shorten | - 0 - |
Also, ask Jim if the wizard has any connections to the witches, why he owned a pair of iron boots, and what he means by possessing the landlord's son.
You said before that Jim magic-sight is unique and now urist have it too ? Jim had no abilities aside from it ? Could you ask everyone who's active on deadchat to state how they died ? Ask Jim if he knows anything about the blue blood found around "wizard" victims.It's not unique, just rare. Jim's has a higher chance of working than Urist's. Jim also had Witchchat, Loverchat, Anonchat, and dies the night phase after his lover is killed. No clue about the blue blood.
Jim also wants to see full flavor claims from Simple and Irony, and wants to know what Toaster's win conditions are explicitly.
Wincon: Eliminate all Witches, Witch-aligned entities, magical entities and killers present from the game.
I've said so this entire time. Jim's not lying to me, and I want to see the killers and magical entities gone as much as anyone else.Still not believing ya. It doesn't matter if you really spoke to Jim and Urist or now; what matters is whether the contents of that quote are true or not. I'm still unconvinced that LNCP would give anyone knowledge of scum's identity in a bastard game (where the possessee may hang them just in case it works). And finally, I don't believe that by a miraculous coincidence, the only remaining denizens of the deadchat are witches. It is infinitely more probably that you simply spoke with Jim and Urist in scumchat.
| Think0028 | - 1 - | Dariush, |
| Toaster | - 0 - | |
| Dariush | - 3 - | Think0028, IronyOwl, Toaster, |
| IronyOwl | - 0 - | |
| Flandre | - 1 - | Simple, |
| Simple | - 0 - | |
| - | ||
| Not Voting | - 1 - | Flandre, |
| No Lynch | - 0 - | |
| - | ||
| Extend | - 0 - | |
| Shorten | - 0 - |
Apparently Otto is present in deadchat, he just can't think of anything to say. I'm asking for any PMs he got and a summary of his flavor, but does anyone have any special requests for him?Ask him what killed him.
| Think0028 | - 1 - | Dariush, |
| Toaster | - 0 - | |
| Dariush | - 3 - | Think0028, IronyOwl, Toaster, |
| IronyOwl | - 0 - | |
| Flandre | - 1 - | Simple, |
| Simple | - 0 - | |
| - | ||
| Not Voting | - 1 - | Flandre, |
| No Lynch | - 0 - | |
| - | ||
| Extend | - 3 - | Think0028, Dariush, Simple |
| Shorten | - 0 - |
Maybe a prod for the Irony wouldn't be misplaced?
Dariush: Who exactly is this wizard that supposedly hired you ? Any details on him ? What's his connection to you ?All that I know is that he is one of the most powerful and influental people in the capital. I met him for the first time when I got this task from him.
So... You know completely nothing of him ? How your pm was like ? Powerful wizard from capital send you here with a spell! Yet he mumbled something about "soul releasing" ? It's sounds pretty inconsistent. Even if you think revealing this is pointless, some decals could be more convincing.Dariush: Who exactly is this wizard that supposedly hired you ? Any details on him ? What's his connection to you ?All that I know is that he is one of the most powerful and influental people in the capital. I met him for the first time when I got this task from him.
Also what the fuck does the fact that I'm clean-shaven and leave in a barn have to do with each other?I really have to explain this? You're the sort of person who meticulously shaves everyday, yet also can't be bothered to rent a room when he's got a nice warm barn to sleep in?
Wow, nice. Did you expect LNCP to add in my role PM "Little did you know that the wizard was also going to the village to run around murdering people and frame you for it"? No, I didn't know anything about it until Think's quote of Jim's words. How about you support your accusations with... anything? Except asspulls, that is.For starters, this would make your wincon either completely nonsensical, as it wouldn't benefit you in the slightest, or an outright lie, as it wouldn't be, imply, or morph reasonably into your real one. Unless you can think of a reason why you'd want that amulet under any and all circumstances, I don't believe you'd be given a wincon like that.
Uh. Because Think quoted Jim that they didn't have an NK?Right, but why did you believe confirmed scum on that? I mean, you questioned it later, sure, but right when it happened you were all "Oh yeah, I know that wizard!"
By the way, after reading that quote, do you (that means everyone) really think that a wizard would've been given an NK that can be passively detected by a witch? 'A large column of light coming from Vector's house'? Seriously?Makes sense if you assume it's basically a random-target magic-only follow action.
As for not mentioning the pillar of light part, I didn't know about the details til Jim and Urist provided some more.So you're telling me Jim was the one who saw an action-movie wizard, robes flowing dramatically, slow-mo walking away from an exploding house, and described this as "I saw him leaving?"
Toaster, yeah, apparently the last witch isn't willing to claim and Jim and Urist aren't telling me who the last witch is. I haven't heard anything from the last witch in my private chat in a while, either.So you're not fucked, haven't given up, and are instead lying to us to try to avoid attention.
Dariush: Fine: not changing it, but adding little details after the fact to excuse what others are claiming against you.Ahem. How was I supposed to know that my facial hair will concern someone in the future?
I stated a theory which may or may not be true (but probably is). Again, I had no way of knowing that the fact I'm using a spell to track a bracelet would be relevant in the future. Do you take me for an Oracle?
Also, a thought just struck me - Think isn't necessarily a medium, but may be another witch who can sense magic, and his Jim's quote is either fully made up or comes from the scumchat. Really, what could have prevented Jim from LYING? If it is true, it would be insanely easy for Think to frame me using details I haven't yet revealed. Or there might be no wizard at all, but just the last witch (Think) with an NK that we attributed to wizard. Really, the whole current situtation hangs on the fact that we assume him to be telling the truth, since most of the information about witches comes from his quote. Unvote meanwhile.
Toaster: I don't like how you marked me as sk just because there are six of us. I know that saying it is basically useless but : i'm a villager. I wouldn't and you marking me such but from my point of view this theory simply cannot be true. I agree that lynching dariush is so far best choice we have but if you're telling the truth we're the only townies left and it makes me feel that we still have chance to win if we play it right so we should be more careful. Even if you don't believe that i'm villager at least consider this option.
Simple: ... and Max White, Nuke, and Bd are all MIA, souls taken by something else.
Simple: Nuke ain't talking, I'll ask the witches about the third witch's powers.
So you're telling me Jim was the one who saw an action-movie wizard, robes flowing dramatically, slow-mo walking away from an exploding house, and described this as "I saw him leaving?"
The third witch has a small chance of being notified of magical actions (McArathos has a medium chance, I have a medium-high chance)Nice slip, you scum.
Simple:Right now it's either flandre (which will explain why they lost already, but the lover part makes it rather unlikely) or think. However looking at all roles i find it very likely that jim tells the truth, town full of millers and one cop aginast sk or two and mafia clouded by bastardness ? Anyway Dariush claim is the most shady and inconsistent so i guess it hardly changes a thing right now.-snip-
So who do you think the last witch is?
...So you're mixing two different events to make him look bad ? Hmm i wonder if the witches have confirmation that you're witch ally... Meh, only you can provide it so it's rather pointless question.
Yep! No slow-motion, though. And the magic was what gave him away as a wizard, not his robes. The robes were from when I died. And only Urist and I saw the explosion. But yes, otherwise, that's exactly right.
...First of all because it was not something very prominent in my pm, and calling someone who takes few drinks on the weekend a drunkard is bit of a exaggeration. The other reason was that i feared that urist example could not be as random as it looked.
Simple: If you were a drunkard, why didn't you mention the alcohol before?
It's kinda awesome how both Toaster and Irony completely ignore the fact that Thinkismay be a lying witch. Totally "awesome".
Christopher Daubernon here.How'd you forget about this the first time? Not only did you mention the relevance of your name at the time, you explicitly asked everyone else about it.
Toaster: Inquisitor. Town.I notice you're The Only Sane Townie, which I suppose makes sense for an Inquisitor, but your reasoning appears to be that I tagged both witches and am therefore a witch myself (which is admittedly also very Inquisitor-appropriate), Think has no glaring holes and is therefore telling the truth, and Simple is the other killer by process of elimination. Most notably, it seems like your standards are a lot lower for Think than for me or Simple.
Flandre: Lover with Jim. Town. Will die tonight (If not, lynch him.)
Dariush: Wizard. Self-aligned. Lynch him today. [1]
Think: Medium. Witch-aligned/ally. I guess he'll lose by default if he can't win?
Irony: The third witch. Lynch him D5.
Simple: The other killer. Lynch him D4.
Irony: Who do you think is the third witch?I think it's Think, though I wouldn't completely rule you out.
Jim:I'll be nice and replace instances of "I" with "Jim," which still explains nothing. Why would you/the scumteam withhold such relevant information?QuoteSo you're telling me Jim was the one who saw an action-movie wizard, robes flowing dramatically, slow-mo walking away from an exploding house, and described this as "I saw him leaving?"
Yep! No slow-motion, though. And the magic was what gave him away as a wizard, not his robes. The robes were from when I died. And only Urist and I saw the explosion. But yes, otherwise, that's exactly right.
IronyOwl: It's convenient that you don't mention uniquely identifiable about you. What would we find if, say, Toaster inspects you three times tonight?I have a logbook used for jotting down numbers and such. Otherwise, not sure; I'm traveling light, but there might be some signs of (former?) luxury or merchant-ness.
I mean, you even make allowances for Dariush not being a wizard, but none for Think being a real witch. Why is that?You parrot my question and then agree that yes, Think is probably lying, but still keep your vote on me. Why is that?
I'll be nice and replace instances of "I" with "Jim," which still explains nothing. Why would you/the scumteam withhold such relevant information?
Dariush: Did LNCP expound on why the town wouldn't need to lynch you? That's a vague statement.'For compatibility purposes' (seriously). Besides, if it wasn't for that rule, I'd have had to both 'NK' the golem and find the bracelet, which is pretty much impossible.
Simple: Why do you think that? That is why I continue to suspect you- I don't think I've seen one scum hunting post from you this whole game. All you do is point fingers without saying why.Why i think what ? If why i think is witch it's because his role is basically impossible to prove trough inspection, everything he said could be gained from scumchat as well and he seems eager to group himself and witches as one.If why i think dariush is lying it's because it seems pretty strange that suddenly we have magical mercenaries and he adjust facts when confronted. I don't get why you find alcohol suspicious but if you find lack of details suspicious i can't do anything about it , working at the inn is essentially all my pm mentioned. That's how the "simple" nickname is explained.
I don't buy that the alcohol isn't important to you. Per a clarification from LNCP, the flavor becomes more specific and helpful each time I investigate you. The expensive whiskey under the bed was the most significant thing I found the third time, besides the lack of the little things you'd expect someone's bedroom to accrue. It's like the only thing you do in your bedroom is manage the inn and drink- zero signs of a personal life. Do you not see how that could be suspicious?
Oh goddammit I hate you all so much. So. Fucking. Much.Just great.You couldn't just this when day started do you ? Extend
First of all, extend.
Yes, I am the wizard. Yes, I killed Vector and Jim. Happy? Now, the catch - I asked LNCP and he directly replied that once I fulfill my win condition, the town won't need to lynch me any longer. Oh, and about that wincon...
If my NK's target is the golem (whom I desperately tried to lure out for the whole game), he becomes my ally, and I win. Not immediatly, for that I'd need to find the bracelet, which is definitely possessed by witches. If the witch that possesses it is lynched or killed, I'll need to wait until the natural end of the game. If the golem is lynched or killed, I lose.
Now stop being dumbasses and lynch that lying face of Think.
Christopher Daubernon here.How'd you forget about this the first time? Not only did you mention the relevance of your name at the time, you explicitly asked everyone else about it.
I notice you're The Only Sane Townie, which I suppose makes sense for an Inquisitor, but your reasoning appears to be that I tagged both witches and am therefore a witch myself (which is admittedly also very Inquisitor-appropriate), Think has no glaring holes and is therefore telling the truth, and Simple is the other killer by process of elimination. Most notably, it seems like your standards are a lot lower for Think than for me or Simple.
I mean, you even make allowances for Dariush not being a wizard, but none for Think being a real witch. Why is that?
Also, tell us more about this Inquisitor you report to. "Andrew," was it? High Inquisitor Andrew, who you went to college with? I'd expect inquisitors to be a bit more formal than that, especially in the middle of a potentially fatal gambit.
Simple: Yes, I meant why do you think the third witch is Flandre or Think. You didn't answer about Flandre, though.If Flandre is a witch it will explain why they think they lost already. But witch-witch lover pair sounds pretty strange so it's less likely than think being the third. I'm not a golem unless i can be one without knowing it (Voight-Kampff Test was inconclusive :P).
Are you the golem Dariush is looking for?
Why urist is dead if golem is now witch-ally (if i get it right) ?What? Why should golem be a witch-ally?
You can search for bracelet AND kill one night or it was made up ?Yes, I can do both.
You have any method of identifying golem other than killing ?It isn't technically killing (since the primary purpose of the ritual is to enslave the golem, and if used on human it kills them as a side-effect, but no, I don't.
Dariush: What do you know of the golem?Below.
Does the golem like to drink?It is a construct, so I guess no.
Why'd you search me instead of kill me- I assume you can either search someone or kill someone?I don't remember why now, but I suspected Jim was a golem, so I ritual'd him. I searched you to make sure not to destroy the bracelet if you had it, since I planned to kill you N3 just because dealing with Simple and Flandre in the endgame would be easier than with you. No offence meant. And I can do both in one night.
How'd you pick your targets?Either the most suspicious one (I killed Vector primarily because of her claim on D1 about her love of books) or the most experienced one.
How exactly does your searching/killing differ?Searching gives me the bracelet if the target possesses it; otherwise nothing happens. If I choose to ritual/kill someone, if they are a golem, they are converted, otherwise they are killed. If they possess the bracelet, it is destroyed (though I am not notified of it, since I asked LNCP whether or not Jim had the bracelet and he didn't tell me).
I don't see how you can not block our wincon while simultaneously remaining to the endgame, seeing as magical entities must be killed.That was exactly what I was afraid of, so I asked LNCP and he gave the answer I quoted earlier.
Also- you missed my question. Who do you think is what amongst the remaining players?Think is witch; Flandre is town; among Irony and Simple one is the golem, the other town, and I strongly suspect Simple is town. One doesn't simply asspull as much flavour as he did on D1.
Every single piece of information you have.Now. Unless you expect us to blindly help SK.My golem (who runs on souls) escaped me; I chased him through the forest to this village. Here, I slept in the barn, the other info from my previous claim is true. Due to my faithful replication of human form, it is impossible to discern him from others. At first he is 'a mindless wretch', but later 'can regain access to his mental faculties'. I know that he is dangerous and fairly powerful, since it destroyed my house. Also, I have a small chance of sensing magical actions (though I didn't sense anything as of yet). And well, that's pretty much it.
Dariush: How long has the golem been here?For as long as I was.
What do you know of its motivations?Nothing; it was intended to be a household servant, so 'there's no telling what it could do'. Though considering it's... unusual choice of previous targets, it's probably eliminating me.
Dariush: So what does the bracelet do ?Nothing, simply an artifact the coven stole from me long ago.
Would you disappear from game like pandar or stay if golem would be lynched ?If golem is lynched, I'd insta-lose and disappear. If I both convert the golem and find the bracelet, I'll insta-win and disappear. If I only convert the golem, I'll have to wait until the natural game end or find the bracelet to insta-win.
What do you know of witches ?Absolutely nothing, only that they stole the bracelet from me.
| Think0028 | - 1 - | Dariush, |
| Toaster | - 0 - | |
| Dariush | - 3 - | Think0028, IronyOwl, Toaster, |
| IronyOwl | - 0 - | |
| Flandre | - 1 - | Simple, |
| Simple | - 0 - | |
| - | ||
| Not Voting | - 1 - | Flandre, |
| No Lynch | - 0 - | |
| - | ||
| Extend | - 3 - | Dariush, Simple, Toaster, |
| Shorten | - 0 - |
| Think0028 | - 1 - | Dariush, |
| Toaster | - 0 - | |
| Dariush | - 3 - | Think0028, IronyOwl, Toaster, |
| IronyOwl | - 0 - | |
| Flandre | - 1 - | Simple, |
| Simple | - 0 - | |
| - | ||
| Not Voting | - 1 - | Flandre, |
| No Lynch | - 0 - | |
| - | ||
| Extend | - 2 - | Dariush, Toaster, |
| Shorten | - 0 - |
Simple: You seem awfully easy to convince that Irony is the golem. Why do you agree so readily?Here:
| Think0028 | - 1 - | Dariush, |
| Toaster | - 0 - | |
| Dariush | - 3 - | Think0028, IronyOwl, Toaster, |
| IronyOwl | - 1 - | Simple, |
| Flandre | - 0 - | |
| Simple | - 0 - | |
| - | ||
| Not Voting | - 1 - | Flandre, |
| No Lynch | - 0 - | |
| - | ||
| Extend | - 4 - | Dariush, Toaster, Simple, Think0028 |
| Shorten | - 0 - |
Huh? I thought it was obvious.Well in my opinion dealing with one not-entirely-known threat is better than leaving two alive. Why are you so obsessed about lynching witches if they did (probably) nothing that harmed the town yet ?
We lynch the golem (Irony) -> tomorrow remain Toaster, Simple, Flandre, Think.
We lynch the witch (Think) -> tomorrow remain Irony and three out of the following four: Flandre, Toaster, Simple and me.
Actually wait, I forgot about Flandre dying tonight. Yeah, that brings us down to three either way, but still with the witch if we lynch the golem and without it if we lynch the witch.
Yes, I am the wizard. Yes, I killed Vector and Jim. Happy? Now, the catch - I asked LNCP and he directly replied that once I fulfill my win condition, the town won't need to lynch me any longer. Oh, and about that wincon...I don't believe this at all. There's a number of reasons why, but the most obvious is "why would we think you're telling the truth this time?"
If my NK's target is the golem (whom I desperately tried to lure out for the whole game), he becomes my ally, and I win. Not immediatly, for that I'd need to find the bracelet, which is definitely possessed by witches. If the witch that possesses it is lynched or killed, I'll need to wait until the natural end of the game. If the golem is lynched or killed, I lose.
It isn't technically killing (since the primary purpose of the ritual is to enslave the golem, and if used on human it kills them as a side-effect, but no, I don't.Also, this is just priceless. "Technically it's not killing, it's just a ritual that kills everything but one player that I use for killing."
Reply from Jim, insult preserved:How do you figure?QuoteI'll be nice and replace instances of "I" with "Jim," which still explains nothing. Why would you/the scumteam withhold such relevant information?
They didn't, you dumbshit.
However, I can't help but point out you never actually denied being the third witch.I'm not the third witch. I'm also not fond of stating the obvious.
Here's the thing- if the golem got here the same time all this started, how could he be impersonating an innkeeper? Investigating Simple's flavor indicated much that he's been innkeeping for quite some time. I'd think the golem would be someone that would have no strong ties to the town.Not really. In theory the same ought to be true of all non-town, but it hasn't been for the witches, was lied about convincingly by Dariush, and supposedly is true of the pro-town Inquisitor.
Irony: Let me formalize it: Are you the golem? If not, who do you think is what role? If so, what is your wincon?No. Currently leaning:
Toaster: If he's a golem i have no way of winning so i couldn't care less for this option. It seems unlikely due to inspect stuff(Why would he go around people homes AND kill others ?)What do you mean by this?
Irony: The witches possessed people, per Jim. He was clearly a local per his flavor, and yet was a witch. It's the third parties that appear to be nonresidents. The only people alive who have claimed nonresidence are me, you, and Dariush. Dariush is obvwizard and I know I'm a inquisitor, so you must be the golem.So you're admitting to being third party?
In regards to my wincon, I don't know. I specifically asked about that, and was told I was town aligned, but with a different wincon. Asking what happens if my narrower wincon was filled was met with a generic "You win when your wincon is filled." Didn't I already answer this? In any case, calling it "completely separate" is intentionally misleading.Bullshit. X-Aligned means "not directly on X's team, but wins or loses with them." Claiming you're town-aligned yet have a separate set of wincons is like saying you're a miller who appears townie to inspections- it doesn't exist.
Getting rid of the golem should get rid of the wizard, too, so...Also, I love how you believe half of the obviously lying obvwizard's claim. Killing the golem? That'll get rid of the wizard, the wizard told me so! Bracelet? What bracelet?
IronyOwl: I meant that i'm assuming i still have a chance of winning. Toaster got his hands on some kind of inspect that's certain, it could be either what he claims or it again has something to do with the bracelet (info about which we got only from dariush who can't even say what it does exactly despite being it's creator.). This excludes him being golem in my eyes. If he's a witch i doubt he got any other power than this inspect and i can't see a reason why he wouldn't claim.I'm pretty sure he said something about a "release of souls" earlier, which might tie into Think's claim. Could also be building on each other's lies or something, but if there is a bracelet, there's probably a reason for it. If there isn't, Dariush still has an inspect for something.
Also what role should be lynched today in your opinion ? (Wizard/Golem/Witch/Inquisitor/Something else ?)Dariush. He's the more openly anti-town of the two SK's, deliberately going after experienced targets. I don't know what Toaster's targeting method was, but it mostly worked out for us. I don't think which one we get rid of first matters on a role-level, but we should obviously dispose of a killer if at all possible.
I don't believe this at all.Okay, I stopped considering any input from you after that sentence...
Except for this priceless gem. You are asked what role we should lynch, and you simply point to me.Also what role should be lynched today in your opinion ? (Wizard/Golem/Witch/Inquisitor/Something else ?)Dariush.
Irony: The witches possessed people, per Jim. He was clearly a local per his flavor, and yet was a witch. It's the third parties that appear to be nonresidents. The only people alive who have claimed nonresidence are me, you, and Dariush. Dariush is obvwizard and I know I'm a inquisitor, so you must be the golem.So you're admitting to being third party?
That would help explain why you'd assume a third party couldn't inherit anything from someone they were masquerading as.
Irony: The witches possessed people, per Jim. He was clearly a local per his flavor, and yet was a witch. It's the third parties that appear to be nonresidents. The only people alive who have claimed nonresidence are me, you, and Dariush. Dariush is obvwizard and I know I'm a inquisitor, so you must be the golem.So you're admitting to being third party?
That would help explain why you'd assume a third party couldn't inherit anything from someone they were masquerading as.In regards to my wincon, I don't know. I specifically asked about that, and was told I was town aligned, but with a different wincon. Asking what happens if my narrower wincon was filled was met with a generic "You win when your wincon is filled." Didn't I already answer this? In any case, calling it "completely separate" is intentionally misleading.Bullshit. X-Aligned means "not directly on X's team, but wins or loses with them." Claiming you're town-aligned yet have a separate set of wincons is like saying you're a miller who appears townie to inspections- it doesn't exist.
You even mentioned earlier that as Think was witch-aligned, he must lose when the witches couldn't win- if you were really "town-aligned but that just means pro-town," that would have occurred to you.
Getting rid of the golem should get rid of the wizard, too, so...Also, I love how you believe half of the obviously lying obvwizard's claim. Killing the golem? That'll get rid of the wizard, the wizard told me so! Bracelet? What bracelet?
read the flavour for detective work (highly recommended!)
Why do I say Think is the Witch? Because he's got the bracelet!Why are you so sure?
How do you figure?
By the time you decided to pass this information along to Think for him to tell to us, you had the whole story- robes and rod, magical Dariush, column of light- but just gave us "Dariush was leaving Vector's."
The second sentence about sums up why i'm agreeing with golem lynching plan. Your wincon is the part of your claim that sounds too complex to be true.Why do I say Think is the Witch? Because he's got the bracelet!Why are you so sure?
Besides, why can't we just lynch Think today if the end result will be the same, except I'll win?...
Your wincon is the part of your claim that sounds too complex to be true.Uh. What would be the purpose of me lying about my wincon? If we lynch Irony, I lose. If we lynch Think, I win. It's that simple.
| Think0028 | - 1 - | Dariush, |
| Toaster | - 0 - | |
| Dariush | - 1 - | IronyOwl, |
| IronyOwl | - 4 - | Simple, Think0028, Toaster, Flandre, |
| Flandre | - 0 - | |
| Simple | - 0 - | |
| - | ||
| Not Voting | - 0 - | |
| No Lynch | - 0 - | |
| - | ||
| Extend | - 0 - | |
| Shorten | - 0 - |
| Think0028 | - 1 - | Dariush, |
| Toaster | - 0 - | |
| Dariush | - 1 - | IronyOwl, |
| IronyOwl | - 4 - | Simple, Think0028, Toaster, Flandre, |
| Flandre | - 0 - | |
| Simple | - 0 - | |
| - | ||
| Not Voting | - 0 - | |
| No Lynch | - 0 - | |
| - | ||
| Extend | - 0 - | |
| Shorten | - 0 - |
| Simple | - 0 - | |
| - | ||
| Not Voting | - 0 - | Simple |
| No Lynch | - 0 - | |
| - | ||
| Extend | - 0 - | |
| Shorten | - 0 - |
Here's a followup from the scum. I have recently learned I'm not allowed to quote deadchat, so I will try to paraphrase their words. At Jim's request, I've tried to preserve his insults.
What would have happened if Think and Simple were the last two?
Also, that was an excellent game, LNCP! Hope you've got another one like that up your sleeve!
Quicktopic links, role PMs, yes?
Also: the vengeful spirits thing: very entertaining, kept me a lot more interested in the game then I otherwise would have been. One point of critique: Me and Max should have lost when Irony died. What was that about?
That was part of the original mechanic, to populate the deadchat and allow for more opportunities to use the Hauntings ability (which was a major point in the orig. setup). Sadly, I broke that entire scheme by including a medium, which I probably shouldn't have.Hmm. Perhaps you could have had us be in both dead- and golemchat, as a posthumous mafia. That way the deadchat would have been populated, without denying us our delicious revenge, and Irony his rampant schizophrenia.
You mean I was lovers with a Vigilante.
That would've been nice to know.
So there wasn't any trickiness with the win conditions? Then what were the witches supposed to do there?
So what exactly were everyone's wincons?RARGH. Wait, what gems? I didn't hear about no gems. Also, I was lynched, but what about the guards that I hired? Why didn't they stop you from stealing my horses and what not?
Also GOT MAH GEMS BACK, DUN CARE ABOUT YOUR PETTY INQUISITION.
Yeah, I got that Lyncher win vs. Nuke9.13 handed to me far too easily.
And hey, I just now noticed that I was totally and completely right about Think, and everyone voting for me was non-town. RARGH. IRONY HURRY UP AND KILL THOSE BASTARDS FOR LYNCHING ME.LNCP scored a jackpot for the vengeful spirits actually being exceedingly vengeful.
...
Wait what?
HA! Nice work Flandre! Great play!
Your lynch really sucked, since you were so bang on about the flavor being key.Eh, I got a taste of vengeance.
LNCP: There's quite a bit of secrets already out, what with some people knowing them (due to having said wincon.) I'm quite curious as to what was up with Irony's role.
Nuke had gems that Pandar absconded with after the former got lynched. The spirits were (I assume) the dead guys.
How were the witches supposed to win that game?Bear in mind though, they were all hostile to each other as well. The bigger concern is that witches were known, obvious, and assumed enemies to everyone, whereas all three killers were completely unknown, and in one case even looked like a witch instead.
I mean, I know we came this close, but having three killing roles isn't kind on either team, but more so for the witches since all three killers were hostile to them, and they had no kill of their own.
Looking back, it seems like the odds were really stacked against us. Three killers being able to use their kills on Night 0? Holy shit, that's vicious.
Your lynch really sucked, since you were so bang on about the flavor being key.Eh, I got a taste of vengeance.
Finally, I think the flavor focus was stacked against non-town (or at least non-town non-witch) pretty hard. Being that relevant but different is great from a "we're town how do we solve the puzzle?" perspective, but it makes it a lot harder for non-town to lie their way out of something they never knew had a correct answer, much less what it was.
How were the witches supposed to win that game?
Finally, I think the flavor focus was stacked against non-town (or at least non-town non-witch) pretty hard. Being that relevant but different is great from a "we're town how do we solve the puzzle?" perspective, but it makes it a lot harder for non-town to lie their way out of something they never knew had a correct answer, much less what it was.
By being good. I deliberately made it harder for the Witches, so that they'd need to work to win.
LNCP: What would have happened if Dariush had recruited Irony?
I dunno. No matter how good you play some jackass with a kill can still ruin it all (cf. Dariush).
Still, playing a scum team rich information but low in power was pretty cool. I'd tone down the third party killing roles instead of giving the witch team a kill in future games.
I dunno. No matter how good you play some jackass with a kill can still ruin it all (cf. Dariush).
Still, playing a scum team rich information but low in power was pretty cool. I'd tone down the third party killing roles instead of giving the witch team a kill in future games.
Duly noted.
Well, role PM detail is a good example. Scum had no real idea what went into a townie's PM, making it harder to fake. The fact that specific objects were mentioned, for instance, wasn't something I knew about until much later, which proved slightly problematic. A harsher example would be that, while I was faking being a merchant, I had no idea how merchanty I was really supposed to be. Should I have trade routes, good peddled, a name for my mule? Did I have a cart or what?Finally, I think the flavor focus was stacked against non-town (or at least non-town non-witch) pretty hard. Being that relevant but different is great from a "we're town how do we solve the puzzle?" perspective, but it makes it a lot harder for non-town to lie their way out of something they never knew had a correct answer, much less what it was.
Mind clarifying this a little for me?
Also! Dariush, why didn't you kill N0? I didn't because I was hoping to masquerade as a vig (which wouldn't have worked anyway, since Flandre would have disposed of me to make sure) or at least not reveal the presence of an SK so soon.My role PM mentioned that using ritual would leave a fall-off and may result in my death, so I decided not to risk so early.
Were you telling the truth about your wincon at the end?Yep.