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Dwarf Fortress => DF Dwarf Mode Discussion => Topic started by: franti on July 27, 2011, 09:22:47 am

Title: ...I think I spawned somewhere odd (spoiler) + Slade testing
Post by: franti on July 27, 2011, 09:22:47 am
All the rock around me is Slade, there's a Slade floor. There are these weird...things. They look like * and they're in the same formation as a magma vein, but they go up to like z150. I'm on z40. And when I got up from my spawn point...there is magma above me. I don't see any demons on my map, and my FPS is as about what it normally is except when I try to dig out the Slade, then the game crashes. Can I mod the Slade to be diggable?
Title: Re: ...I think I spawned in hell
Post by: jaxy15 on July 27, 2011, 09:28:03 am
You can mod the slade to be diggable, just go into the raws, find the entry for it, and remove [UNDIGGABLE]
Beware, it's REALLY heavy.
Title: Re: ...I think I spawned in hell
Post by: franti on July 27, 2011, 09:29:41 am
REALLY heavy? Can I mod it to be craftable into bolts?
Title: Re: ...I think I spawned in hell
Post by: franti on July 27, 2011, 09:30:26 am
Oh wow. Yeah. It IS heavy. I'm going to add that bit of text from the Obsidian entry to see if I can't get Slade Shortswords.
Title: Re: ...I think I spawned in hell
Post by: jaxy15 on July 27, 2011, 09:30:54 am
You might wanna decrease the solid density.
Title: Re: ...I think I spawned in hell
Post by: franti on July 27, 2011, 09:33:49 am
Why? What would decreasing the Solid Density do? Wouldn't density make Bolts/Shortswords better because they're so heavy?
Title: Re: ...I think I spawned in hell
Post by: Repulsion on July 27, 2011, 09:36:54 am
The best weapon for slade would probably be hammers, maces, other bludgeoning weapons. The sheer weight of the slade would make such weapons devastating.
Title: Re: ...I think I spawned in hell
Post by: franti on July 27, 2011, 09:38:53 am
The best weapon for slade would probably be hammers, maces, other bludgeoning weapons. The sheer weight of the slade would make such weapons devastating.
I know, obviously, but since the crossbows fire everything at the same velocity, Slade Bolts would be the closest thing the Dwarves have to a .50cal rifle.
Title: Re: ...I think I spawned in hell
Post by: jaxy15 on July 27, 2011, 09:40:58 am
Dwarves take some time to carry heavy stuff.
And when they carry something THAT heavy, it'll take many seconds.
Title: Re: ...I think I spawned in hell
Post by: franti on July 27, 2011, 09:42:07 am
Does anybody know where I can find a "how to edit slade" post?
Title: Re: ...I think I spawned in hell
Post by: TurkeyXIII on July 27, 2011, 10:06:14 am
Your world gen has glitched, it's likely that it'll continue to crash at random.  Unless you really want to try to dig a fort into the Slade, you're best to gen a new world and try again.
Title: Re: ...I think I spawned in hell
Post by: Tharwen on July 27, 2011, 10:29:54 am
There's probably an adamantine spire above you. Maybe you can find it and make a home in the slade?

It's only worthwhile if the elves have to take a glass tunnel through magma and a rickety bridge over the eerie pits to get to the depot.
Title: Re: ...I think I spawned in hell
Post by: ImBocaire on July 27, 2011, 10:41:37 am
Nah, there's probably no adamantine in the world at all. Spawning on top of Hell doesn't mean you're underground; it means that all the layers above hell are missing.
Title: Re: ...I think I spawned in hell
Post by: lanceleoghauni on July 27, 2011, 10:45:24 am
Obligatory SPOILER YOUR TITLE Comment.
Title: Re: ...I think I spawned in hell
Post by: Noir on July 27, 2011, 11:31:40 am
Quoted. Please spoiler.
Title: Re: ...I think I spawned in hell
Post by: OMGTANGERINES on July 27, 2011, 12:48:23 pm
Obligatory SPOILER YOUR TITLE Comment.
Agreed, was just about to post this.
To mod slade, go into the DF folder, into the raw folder, into the objects folder, and open up inorganic_stone_mineral.txt
the entry is thus:

[INORGANIC:SLADE]
[STATE_NAME_ADJ:ALL_SOLID:slade][DISPLAY_COLOR:0:0:1][TILE:176]
[ITEM_SYMBOL:'*']
[DEEP_SURFACE]
[DISPLAY_COLOR:0:0:1]
[SOLID_DENSITY:200000]
[IMPACT_YIELD:4000000]
[IMPACT_FRACTURE:5000000]
[IMPACT_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:100]
[COMPRESSIVE_YIELD:4000000]
[COMPRESSIVE_FRACTURE:5000000]
[COMPRESSIVE_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:100]
[TENSILE_YIELD:4000000]
[TENSILE_FRACTURE:5000000]
[TENSILE_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:100]
[TORSION_YIELD:4000000]
[TORSION_FRACTURE:5000000]
[TORSION_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:100]
[SHEAR_YIELD:4000000]
[SHEAR_FRACTURE:5000000]
[SHEAR_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:100]
[BENDING_YIELD:4000000]
[BENDING_FRACTURE:5000000]
[BENDING_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:100]
[MAX_EDGE:1000] no swords until you can pick mats
[ITEMS_HARD]
[IS_STONE]
[UNDIGGABLE]

Remove [UNDIGGABLE] to make it diggable; change [SOLID_DENSITY:#] to make it lighter (but less devastating).
Title: Re: ...I think I spawned somewhere odd (spoiler)
Post by: franti on July 27, 2011, 01:19:35 pm
I made Slade diggable.
I made Slade stone drop Slade ore when dug out.
I made Slade ore smeltable into Slade bars.
I made Dwarves able to smelt Slade.
I made Slade bars craftable into weapons and armour.
And I kept Slade at the same density it had earlier. I want to see what a Slade Balistae Bolt does to a Goblin.
Now, getting Slade is going to be a problem. I deleted that world, because I had edited the entities raws, and created a new one. I'll have to get into hell to get Slade, and that sucks. So, I made Humans and Goblins able to smelt Slade. I'm hopping a Human caravan/goblin raiding party will randomly show up with Slade weapons I can smelt down into whatever I want.
Title: Re: ...I think I spawned somewhere odd (spoiler)
Post by: ImBocaire on July 27, 2011, 01:23:12 pm
And you've also made it entirely possible to fulfill the occasional mandate for slade items by a noble!

Granted, it's inconvenient as hell (pun very intended), but inconvenience is no excuse for crime!
Title: Re: ...I think I spawned somewhere odd (spoiler)
Post by: franti on July 27, 2011, 01:24:17 pm
The only nobes I ever use are Cheif Medical Dwarf and Militia Commander/Captain.
Title: Re: ...I think I spawned somewhere odd (spoiler)
Post by: franti on July 27, 2011, 01:25:53 pm
Also, Adamantine has a value multiplier of 300. Would a value multiplier of 200 be reasonable for Slade? Wait, no, dont want that. Value multiplier of .1, buying it from humans on the cheap.
Answered my own question.
Title: Re: ...I think I spawned somewhere odd (spoiler)
Post by: ImBocaire on July 27, 2011, 01:27:47 pm
The only nobes I ever use are Cheif Medical Dwarf and Militia Commander/Captain.

You'll get a mayor whether you want to or not. It just happens. Also, no need to be afraid of the appointed nobles; they don't issue demands and are actually quite useful. Bookkeepers in particular are essential for management of your resources.
Title: Re: ...I think I spawned somewhere odd (spoiler)
Post by: franti on July 27, 2011, 01:29:19 pm
I never found Bookkeepers/managers to be helpful. I'd rather have them hauling stuff. The micromanaging in this game isn't as bad as people seem to think it is.
Title: Re: ...I think I spawned somewhere odd (spoiler)
Post by: franti on July 27, 2011, 01:30:35 pm
My plan is to get several dwarves up to Legendary Axemen, clad them in all Slade armour, Slade Halberds, and have a squad of Slade-bolted marksdwarves backing them up, open hell, and see how many demons I kill.
Title: Re: ...I think I spawned somewhere odd (spoiler)
Post by: ImBocaire on July 27, 2011, 01:30:52 pm
If you haven't found bookkeepers useful, you've probably forgotten to change their settings to max accuracy so you can tabulate every single pebble in the fortress, order all of a specific type of item for dumping, or take note of your crops down to the last seed.
Title: Re: ...I think I spawned somewhere odd (spoiler)
Post by: franti on July 27, 2011, 01:32:40 pm
I don't know how to set up bookkeepers at all. And I don't really need an accurate head count of food. As long as it's at least 200 on my screen, it's no issue to me.
Title: Re: ...I think I spawned somewhere odd (spoiler)
Post by: Lectorog on July 27, 2011, 01:43:13 pm
If you're going to outfit your dwarves in slade armor, make sure to train up their armor user skill. Otherwise, they'll move REALLY slow. That's a lot of weight.

And make at least one slade hammer. See how fast it kills things. Should be amazing.
Title: Re: ...I think I spawned in hell
Post by: Leatra on July 27, 2011, 01:45:43 pm
Obligatory SPOILER YOUR TITLE Comment.
I didn't know that slade is located at hell but I do know. Adding a spoiler has just spoiled it :D
Title: Re: ...I think I spawned somewhere odd (spoiler)
Post by: OMGTANGERINES on July 27, 2011, 02:14:58 pm
I don't know how to set up bookkeepers at all. And I don't really need an accurate head count of food. As long as it's at least 200 on my screen, it's no issue to me.

Go to nobles screen, select a bookkeeper, highlight bookkeeper, press "s", set to max accuracy. Make sure you give him an office.
And I'd do anything for more nobles (like a damn baron, they never want to come); they make the game interesting.
Title: Re: ...I think I spawned somewhere odd (spoiler)
Post by: Sutremaine on July 27, 2011, 02:23:03 pm
I don't know how to set up bookkeepers at all. And I don't really need an accurate head count of food.
A good bookkeeper allows you to zoom to any one item on your map. There are a lot of things that having a bookkeeper allows, as ImBocaire points out.

To set up a bookkeeper you need a chair / throne and a dwarf assigned the Bookkeeper position. To do this, you go into the (n)obles screen, pick out a dwarf you can afford to have out of commission for a short while, and give them the job. Use the (s)ettings option on the nobles screen to switch accuracy to high. Build the chair, set it as a throne room / study, and assign it to the bookkeeper. The dwarf will do nothing else until the records are updated. Once you get enough stuff that high accuracy isn't enough, switch over to 'all records accurate'. Once it's up to full accuracy, your bookkeeper will maintain stock control with only the power of their mind.

(on preview -- ...ehh. Better safe than sorry, and I typed it all up already.)
Title: Re: ...I think I spawned somewhere odd (spoiler)
Post by: RAKninja on July 27, 2011, 02:47:09 pm
I don't know how to set up bookkeepers at all. And I don't really need an accurate head count of food. As long as it's at least 200 on my screen, it's no issue to me.

Go to nobles screen, select a bookkeeper, highlight bookkeeper, press "s", set to max accuracy. Make sure you give him an office.
And I'd do anything for more nobles (like a damn baron, they never want to come); they make the game interesting.
the baron does not immigrate in, he is appointed by the liaison.
Title: Re: ...I think I spawned somewhere odd AND weapon testing (spoiler)
Post by: franti on July 27, 2011, 03:38:49 pm
Weapon Tests:

A dwarf in full Slade is carrying ~14x his body weight.
VERY extensive, full arena testing on Slade/Adamantine/Steel/Platinum.
Slade: Predictably good in blunt, predictably poor in cutting, predictably decent in armour
Adamantine: Poor in blunt, good in cutting, good in armour
Steel: Decent in blunt, decent in cutting, good in armour
Platinum: Good in blunt, poor in cutting, poor in armour

Standard dwarf:
Male, Adept Fighter, Adept Weapon skill, Proficient Armour User, Talented Shield User, Competent Dodger.
Shield, Weapon, Mail Shirt, Breastplate, Mail Leggings, Gauntlets, Boots, Helm.

Slade VS Adamantine, Cutting
In a 5 vs 5 between Adamantine and Slade, nothing happened. Pages and pages of deflections. The worst injury, after 5 minutes, was an Adamantine Dwarf who got his hand broken by the pommel of a Slade Shortsword. Had I let it go on long enough, perhaps the Slade Dwarves would've colapsed from exhaustion and been strangled. I don't know.
Adamantine and Slade are not heavy/sharp enough to penetrate each other.
It's worth noting that rather than meeting in the middle of the room, they met ~4/5 to the bottom. Slade makes Dwarves move REALLY slowly. DO NOT give to marksdwarves.

I re-did the test with 20 vs 20, and took away all but the Helm, Shield (changed to Buckler), and Sword. It was over in about 6 seconds. Somehow, the Adamantine Dwarves lost. The Slade Dwarves had 12 left, 3 with injuries that would eventually bleed out, probably, and several more with injuries that may become infected, but ~1/4 of the Slade Dwarves were completely unharmed except for light brusing.

That led me to investigate the combat reports, and here's the conclusions I've drawn as to why Slade won:
-Slade Shortswords are terribly heavy compared to Adamantine Shortswords. Perhaps the increased weight allowed easier severing of body parts, as many Adamantine Dwarves bled out rather than got struck down. In fact, no dwarves were struck down. Striking down generally requires a head shot, and all dwarves had inpenetrable helms.
-Many Adamantine Dwarf bodies weren't holding either a sword or shield, but had both arms. Upon reading the combat reports, it would appear that spinal/nervous injuries in the Adamantine Dwarves were approximately FIVE times more prevalent than in the Slade Dwarves. This may be due to the heavier weapon materials: A Slade Buckler strike would break an arm, and in once remarkable incidence, shattered the lower arm, jammed it through the upper arm, and jammed the upper arm through the shoulder (I shit you not), whereas an Adamantine Buckler strike would bruise the skin and muscle. Same for pommel/flat-of-the-blade strikes.

Slade VS Platinum, Blunt.
I gave both sides a Helm, Breastplate, Mace, Bucker, and Gauntlets to preven weapon-dropping, but the Platinum armour wasn't tough enough to stop Slade, but Slade could stop Platium most of the time. The fight ended predictably. I re-did it with no armour or shields. The Platinium did better this time.
In a 10 VS 10, only 2 Slade Dwarves survived, and one was near dead. I did the test multiple times, and it generally comes out to a narrow Slade Victory.

Slade VS Steel, Piercing
Having trouble here. How to I get dwarves to use Bolts? There are no quivers.
Title: Re: ...I think I spawned somewhere odd (spoiler)
Post by: franti on July 27, 2011, 03:39:25 pm
I don't know how to set up bookkeepers at all. And I don't really need an accurate head count of food. As long as it's at least 200 on my screen, it's no issue to me.

Go to nobles screen, select a bookkeeper, highlight bookkeeper, press "s", set to max accuracy. Make sure you give him an office.
And I'd do anything for more nobles (like a damn baron, they never want to come); they make the game interesting.
the baron does not immigrate in, he is appointed by the liaison.
I always say "no" to the baron option.
Title: Re: ...I think I spawned somewhere odd (spoiler) + Slade testing
Post by: ImBocaire on July 27, 2011, 04:08:32 pm
Enjoy never being able to ask for specific items from the outpost liason, then XD

Also, nice read so far. Slade's kind of a mystery in terms of properties, since you're not really supposed to ever be able to interact with it; it's a surface and nothing more. It's been known that slade warhammers are absolutely staggeringly effective, but the other properties not so much.
Title: Re: ...I think I spawned somewhere odd (spoiler) + Slade testing
Post by: franti on July 27, 2011, 04:19:20 pm
I've decided that smelting Slade will yield Processed Slade. Processed Slade will not be used to make armour/weapons, and will hold an edge poorly, but can still be used to make anvils and will still be super dense.

Smelting 1 Processed Slade with 1 Steel, 1 Pig Iron, and 1 Coke will yield ONE bar of a metal which I have not as of yet named. This metal will be a sharper, significantly heavier version of Steel, and will be dark red (darker than Blood Thorn Red).
It will be to Adamantine what Glumprogs are to Feather Trees. Evil VS Good, Heavy VS Light. (I believe I read somewhere that Adamantine was created by the gods to plug up holes to hell, sealing the demons off from the rest of the world).

I think I'll call it Rathesteel, from the only good MMO I've ever played (Ultima)

Title: Re: ...I think I spawned somewhere odd (spoiler) + Slade testing
Post by: franti on July 27, 2011, 04:32:42 pm
Also, and this is a bit silly, but:
Smelting 2 Copper, 1 Zinc, and 1 Processed Slade will yield 4 Goblinite Bars. It will be almost as good as Iron, but heavy as Lead. (Brass, I feel, is the most evil metal). Only Goblins can smelt Goblinite, although Dwarves can use it if they pick it up.

Nevermind. Silly.
Title: Re: ...I think I spawned somewhere odd (spoiler) + Slade testing
Post by: ImBocaire on July 27, 2011, 04:34:30 pm
Unfortunately, I don't think the game supports more than a certain number of colors, and blood-thorn red is the darkest red there is (it's also the color of kaolinite, bauxite, and hematite). There are no currently existing metals of that color, though, if I remember correctly.
Title: Re: ...I think I spawned somewhere odd (spoiler) + Slade testing
Post by: franti on July 27, 2011, 04:37:25 pm
Unfortunately, I don't think the game supports more than a certain number of colors, and blood-thorn red is the darkest red there is (it's also the color of kaolinite, bauxite, and hematite). There are no currently existing metals of that color, though, if I remember correctly.
Alright. Blood Thorn Red it is, then.
Also, how do I mod the arena to allow quivers? I want to see Slade Bolts in action.
Title: Re: ...I think I spawned somewhere odd (spoiler) + Slade testing
Post by: dree12 on July 27, 2011, 04:53:38 pm
You can't AFAIK. Trash their shields, and give them some bolts in one hand.
Title: Re: ...I think I spawned somewhere odd (spoiler) + Dark HFS Metal testing
Post by: Powder Miner on July 27, 2011, 04:55:52 pm
Spoiler the title...
Title: Re: ...I think I spawned somewhere odd (spoiler) + Slade testing
Post by: franti on July 27, 2011, 05:26:16 pm
Spoiler the title...
Obligatory SPOILER YOUR TITLE Comment.
I didn't know that slade is located at hell but I do know. Adding a spoiler has just spoiled it :D
At least bother reading the thread.
Also, let me help you with this:
"...I think I spawned somewhere odd (spoiler) + Slade testing"
Title: Re: ...I think I spawned somewhere odd (spoiler) + Slade testing
Post by: franti on July 27, 2011, 05:28:10 pm
You can't AFAIK. Trash their shields, and give them some bolts in one hand.
Thanks.
Update - Slade Bolts rule. They ARE the closest thing dwarves will have to a .50cal rifle. I put a Legendary Marksdwarf/Archer on a bridge with a Slade Crossbow, 100 Slade Bolts, and a group of Goblins. He won.
Title: Re: ...I think I spawned somewhere odd (spoiler) + Slade testing
Post by: franti on July 27, 2011, 08:18:28 pm
Alright. Super update -
My testing was divided into 10 groups, each fighting seperately in a 9x9 room made by placing magma and water on top of eachother. The dwarves were either lightly or heavily armoured:
Light: Weapon, Shield
Heavy: Weaon, Helm, Cap, Breastplate, Mail Shirt, Gauntlets, Greaves, Boots, Shield

All dwarves were: Male, Adept Fighter, Adept Weapon, Talented Shield, Competent Armour, Novice Dodger

1st round: Shortswords.
- In a 1 vs 1 Lightly armoured fight, Slade won 33% of the time. Slate and Steel are both very effective against skin, but Steel is quicker and doesn't weight down Dwarves as much.
- In a 1 vs 1 Heavily armoured fight, Slade won all the time. Steel is not capable of penetrating Slade ever, but Slade will almost always go through Steel. Example:
Dwarf 1 stabs Dwarf 2 in the head with his Steel Shortsword! The attack glances off the Slade Helm!
Dwarf 2 stabs Dwarf 1 in the head with his Slade Shortsword, tearing the muscle and fracturing the skull through the Steel Helm!
- Verdict: Slade is a better armour material the Steel, and in certain cases a better weapon material.

Now, I was concerned that the Shields may have been an issue, as the dwarves may have bashed with them, so I took them out. To prevent to dwarves from picking up another sword, I gave them Halberds to multigrip and changed their skills to this to make them more elite:
Grand Master Fighter, Grand Master Weapon, Grand Master Armour, Grand Master Dodger
- A heavily armoured dwarf in Slade killed EIGHT Steel dwarves with bruising on his Upper Right Arm.
Now, that's insane, but it is how it is.

I wanted to see how good Slade was as a weapon material and as an armour material, without it being both at once.
- I put 4 Steel Dwarves up against a Steel Dwarf with a Slade Halberd. Slade Halberd Dwarf won with no damage most of the time. Weapon test: Slade wins.
- I put 6 Slade Dwarves with Steel Halberds up against a Slade Dwarf. Slade Dwarf won with no damage ~1/2 the time, and never had any major injuries. Armour test: Slade wins.  The fight would be a group of dwarves dancing (dodging) around in a circle for a very long time. Eventually one of the dwarves would land a hit, but if it was a Steel Halberd it would do nothing. However, if the Slade Halberd hit, a small, red 2 would go flying across the map. And I do mean "flying": 55 squares away, 3z up is the record. By the time the fight was over, the map looked like my screen had been shot with a red paintball. Once, the fight went on so long the Slade Dwarf passed out. He just laid there while they tried in vain to kill him. He got up on a minute or two.

Conclusion: Slade is capable of penetrating Slade easier than Steel is capable of penetrating Steel. Slade tires out dwarves quicker than Steel.

Ranged Testing:
Slade bolts are good, but Steel bolts go through Slade as easily as Slade bolts go through Steel, for some reason, and Steel is much quicker, so I give the win to Steel in this one.
Title: Re: ...I think I spawned somewhere odd (spoiler) + Slade testing
Post by: dree12 on July 27, 2011, 08:27:19 pm
What are the sample sizes of your tests? What appears to be strong results can be quite weak. I used to believe steel crossbows were much better than silver in melee combat, but further testing says silver gangs up better.
Title: Re: ...I think I spawned somewhere odd (spoiler) + Slade testing
Post by: franti on July 27, 2011, 08:39:36 pm
Every battle had 9 others exactly like it going on in a room nearby.
Each test, comprised of 10 battles, was repeated twice more, for a total battle number of 30.
If I recall from statistics, 30(20?) is the smallest sample size you can have that can be used to draw a valid conclusion, so I consider these results legitimate.
The descriptions I provided are compressed and generalized, but the conclusions drawn from them are still 100% valid.
Title: Re: ...I think I spawned somewhere odd (spoiler) + Slade testing
Post by: franti on July 27, 2011, 08:54:49 pm
Next, I will begin the Slade modding I discussed: Smelting Slade makes Processed Slade, smelting Processed Slade with Steel makes Rathesteel. Processed Slade can't hold an edge, Rathesteel is heavyer, sharper steel.
Once I've gotten it modded in, I'll post the RAWs and tell you where to put them, should you care to know.
Title: Re: ...I think I spawned somewhere odd (spoiler) + Slade testing
Post by: franti on July 27, 2011, 08:57:33 pm
Also, I'm going to try to embark with a Slade Halberd for my militia commander, and them immediately start building my fortress in Cavern Level 3. I think an Ogre VS Slade Halberd would be a win for me.
Title: Re: ...I think I spawned somewhere odd (spoiler) + Slade testing
Post by: Lectorog on July 27, 2011, 09:02:17 pm
This is awesome. I'm glad someone did slade testing - there's not been enough data collected lately.

After you're finished making the custom materials, could you post what you did? I think I'd like to use the mod. I'd make slade expensive, though. Just doesn't seem right to be able to have it dirt-cheap.

And have you tried slade bolts vs. slade armor testing? Didn't notice it in the results (might have missed it) and I'd like to know how that turns out.
Title: Re: ...I think I spawned somewhere odd (spoiler) + Slade testing
Post by: astaldaran on July 27, 2011, 10:41:00 pm
"If I recall from statistics, 30(20?) is the smallest sample size you can have that can be used to draw a valid conclusion"

Yes, that is the number I remember as well.

This is great information, you should post the info to the wiki.
Title: Re: ...I think I spawned somewhere odd (spoiler) + Slade testing
Post by: franti on July 27, 2011, 11:14:54 pm
I'm going to give Slade a material value of 200, to reflect its combat equality to adamantine, but also its cumbersome weight.
I'll be away from the internet this weekend, so I can't post it until Sunday/Monday.
I'm going to post a "vanillia" version of the Slade mods, and my "custom" version: includes the Rathesteel listed above. I think that'd be a great metal, and it would be dificult to get, too. More complex/dificult to amass than Adamantine, making it an "end-game" metal.
Title: Re: ...I think I spawned somewhere odd (spoiler) + Slade testing
Post by: franti on July 27, 2011, 11:22:58 pm
Also: Slade Bolts, Steel Bolts, Adamantine Bolts, they all go through Slade Armour. Not sure what it is about crossbows. However, Slade bolts do go through Adamantine noticeably better than Steel bolts, so I would consider them the dwarven .50cal

Another odd thing: I did a test between a Grand Master-everything Slade Dwarf with an Axe and a Grand Master-everything Bismuth Bronze Goblin with a Scourge, and the Goblin caved the Dwarfs head in instantly. Through the Slade Helm/Cap.
Further testing shows that was a bit of a fluke, but that a Bismuth Bronze Scourge is still supprisingly good against Slade. Better than a Steel Mace, in fact. So, just adding this, Slade doesn't turn a Dwarf into a super-tank: goblin seiges can still harm them. As always, use Marksdwarves before closing in.

And another thing: A Professional Marksdwarf/Archer with a Slade Crossbow and Slade Bolts will shoot through Iron/Copper like it was drywall. An unarmoured, Professional Marksdwarf with Slade Bolts against a Professional Bowgoblin with Copper armour/arrows will usually result in a win going to whoever can hit the other's weapon-holding arm first, as both are good against eachother's armour. Try to have numbers on your side, like usual.
Title: Re: ...I think I spawned somewhere odd (spoiler) + Slade testing
Post by: Lectorog on July 28, 2011, 12:58:58 am
That's pretty cool. I'd attribute the death more to the odd qualities of the scourge than weakness in slade, but it does show that accidents still happen. If the poor dwarf only had a cloak...

And you should probably post a link to the mod when you make it. Not everyone here likes to go trudging through the mess that is DF Modding. :P

Also, I love the fact that your signature has a spoiler in it, the quote itself being a response to a complaint about a spoiler.
Title: Re: ...I think I spawned somewhere odd (spoiler) + Slade testing
Post by: franti on July 28, 2011, 08:40:18 am
That's pretty cool. I'd attribute the death more to the odd qualities of the scourge than weakness in slade, but it does show that accidents still happen. If the poor dwarf only had a cloak...

And you should probably post a link to the mod when you make it. Not everyone here likes to go trudging through the mess that is DF Modding. :P
I'll post a step-by-step guide on what I did. I'll either post it in this thread, or somewhere in the Modding/Dwarf Discussion boards with the title "Slade RAW editing". It'll be up by Monday.

Also, I love the fact that your signature has a spoiler in it, the quote itself being a response to a complaint about a spoiler.
Check this out:
Spoiler the title...
Obligatory SPOILER YOUR TITLE Comment.
I didn't know that slade is located at hell but I do know. Adding a spoiler has just spoiled it :D
At least bother reading the thread.
Also, let me help you with this:
"...I think I spawned somewhere odd (spoiler) + Slade testing"
Title: Re: ...I think I spawned somewhere odd (spoiler) + Slade testing
Post by: lanceleoghauni on August 02, 2011, 10:29:10 am
Spoiler the title...
Obligatory SPOILER YOUR TITLE Comment.
I didn't know that slade is located at hell but I do know. Adding a spoiler has just spoiled it :D
At least bother reading the thread.
Also, let me help you with this:
"...I think I spawned somewhere odd (spoiler) + Slade testing"

It wasn't when I first posted :P
Title: Re: ...I think I spawned somewhere odd (spoiler) + Slade testing
Post by: gomwon on August 02, 2011, 11:08:00 am
Spoiler the title...
Obligatory SPOILER YOUR TITLE Comment.
I didn't know that slade is located at hell but I do know. Adding a spoiler has just spoiled it :D
At least bother reading the thread.
Also, let me help you with this:
"...I think I spawned somewhere odd (spoiler) + Slade testing"

You could read the thread too. It was not spoilered when he posted, and thats why everyone was asking for spoilers.
Title: Re: ...I think I spawned somewhere odd (spoiler) + Slade testing
Post by: CT on August 03, 2011, 02:16:48 am
Oh God why is it that when I read this and he said that slade bolts are like dwarven 50 cals that I pictured a Dwarf on a hill holding a crossbow but everytime he fired it it knocked him on his ass and ripped huge chunks out of anything it hit....I require a mod...
Title: Re: ...I think I spawned somewhere odd (spoiler) + Slade testing
Post by: Oliolli on August 04, 2011, 02:40:35 am
Dwarf Fortress: Where players invade hell simply to start a mining operation there.
Title: Re: ...I think I spawned somewhere odd (spoiler) + Slade testing
Post by: lanceleoghauni on August 04, 2011, 06:41:31 am
Dwarf Fortress: Where players invade hell simply to start a mining operation there.

Well we WOULD if we COULD.
Title: Re: ...I think I spawned somewhere odd (spoiler) + Slade testing
Post by: Oliolli on August 04, 2011, 09:19:23 am
It will begin soon enough, as soon as franti completes this mod.
Title: Re: ...I think I spawned somewhere odd (spoiler) + Slade testing
Post by: franti on August 04, 2011, 10:39:06 am
The best way to get Slade is from an upright sword. You know what I'm talking about.
Once you've beaten hell, you don't really need slade: clearly, regardless of what you're wearing, you're badass.

Mod progress:
I made Slade diggable, and that worked. I made Slade drop Slade Ore, and that works. I made Slade smeltable, and allowed Dwarves to smelt it. That worked. The only issue is that there isn't any option underneath the metalsmiths forge for "Slade" even though I have a stockpile of Slade Bars.

I have no way of knowing of I can make things out of Slade at a forge at all. I'm going to wait for a metalsmith to get a mood and them lock out all of the other metals. I'll just have to wait and hope that my fairly pissed-off weaponsmith doesn't get a Fell Mood.

Interesting note: If a thirsty dwarf decends 100z-levels and accends those same z-levels carrying tons and tons of Slade, he will dehydrate and die in your staircase. Tantrum Spiral!
Title: Re: ...I think I spawned somewhere odd (spoiler) + Slade testing
Post by: franti on August 04, 2011, 10:48:02 am
I'm re-creating the mod to see what the issue is.

At first I thought that maybe the density or high melting point prevented it from being smelted, so I changed those to that of Steel. Nothing.

Second thought: The [DEEP_SURFACE] tag prevents forging. Removed [DEEP_SURFACE] from Slade Bars. Nothing. Replaced [DEEP_SURFACE] with [DEEP_SPECIAL]. Nothing.

Third thought: I mis-typed something along the way or put a tag in the wrong spot. This is where I am now. I'm going to, basically, re-create Iron with the name Slade, and then if that works add in the Slade features (Super high melting point, high density, high molar mass, etc).
If this doesn't work, I'm going to have to assume that there is something hard-coded into the files to prevent something like this.

Any advice would be helpful. If somebody tried to mod Slade in themselves and posted their experiences, that might help a lot. It'd be nice to bounce ideas off of something.

Also, if I can figure out how to make those little drop-down "spoiler" things, I'll post the RAW mods I've got so far. They're quite voluminous and I'd prefer to not have to take up half the page posting them.
Title: Re: ...I think I spawned somewhere odd (spoiler) + Slade testing
Post by: franti on August 04, 2011, 10:54:05 am
Oh God why is it that when I read this and he said that slade bolts are like dwarven 50 cals that I pictured a Dwarf on a hill holding a crossbow but everytime he fired it it knocked him on his ass and ripped huge chunks out of anything it hit....I require a mod...
Testing in Arena mod shows that that's pretty much what it does.
"The flying Slade Bolt strikes the Troll Troll 1 in the Right Upper Arm, Tearing the Muscle, Chipping the Right Upper Arm Bone, Jamming the Right Upper Arm Bone through the Shoulder, and Tearing the Shoulder."
Title: Re: ...I think I spawned somewhere odd (spoiler) + Slade testing
Post by: UristMcHuman on August 04, 2011, 11:25:59 am
Aren't you the guy that posted the Cave Challenge a few weeks ago?
Title: Re: ...I think I spawned somewhere odd (spoiler) + Slade testing
Post by: Oliolli on August 04, 2011, 12:00:20 pm
Also, if I can figure out how to make those little drop-down "spoiler" things, I'll post the RAW mods I've got so far. They're quite voluminous and I'd prefer to not have to take up half the page posting them.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Just put [ spoiler]TEXT HERE[ /spoiler] without the spaces. Also, there is a "radiation hazard"-ish button in the bar above the text area, that gives those same things.
Title: Re: ...I think I spawned somewhere odd (spoiler) + Slade testing
Post by: Khenal on August 04, 2011, 12:18:00 pm


Any advice would be helpful. If somebody tried to mod Slade in themselves and posted their experiences, that might help a lot. It'd be nice to bounce ideas off of something.



Do you have to put a tag in the slade bars to let the game know to treat it like a metal?
Title: Re: ...I think I spawned somewhere odd (spoiler) + Slade testing
Post by: franti on August 04, 2011, 01:57:31 pm


Any advice would be helpful. If somebody tried to mod Slade in themselves and posted their experiences, that might help a lot. It'd be nice to bounce ideas off of something.



Do you have to put a tag in the slade bars to let the game know to treat it like a metal?
I did. I can smelt slade, and designate slade bars for melting (which may be a glitch), but there isn't an option for slade weapons. it's as if they didn't have the [ITEM_WEAPON] tags.
Title: Re: ...I think I spawned somewhere odd (spoiler) + Slade testing
Post by: franti on August 04, 2011, 01:58:22 pm
Aren't you the guy that posted the Cave Challenge a few weeks ago?
Tis' I
Title: Re: ...I think I spawned somewhere odd (spoiler) + Slade testing
Post by: franti on August 04, 2011, 01:58:59 pm
I've started going about deleteing and re-creating the Slade mods. I'll post the first bits either late today or tomorrow.
Title: Re: ...I think I spawned somewhere odd (spoiler) + Slade testing
Post by: franti on August 06, 2011, 08:35:04 am
Regardless of what I do, I cannot get a Slade option underneath my metalsmith's forge, but I did go ahead and get that Rathesteel metal to work. It's quite a process to get, but arena testing shows it's worth it. I'll post the mods as soon as my internet works for more than 5 minutes. Stupid comcast.

If anybody is willing to take a crack at Slade on their own, that's OK by me, but I'm fine with the metal I have. I made it less dense than slade, but much sharper. It's a better Slashing weapon than Steel and a better Blunt weapon than Adamantine (although, that's not very impressive).

Here's an artistic rending of a full suit of rathesteel armour.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: ...I think I spawned somewhere odd (spoiler) + Slade testing
Post by: franti on August 06, 2011, 10:16:58 pm
Located a mysterious structure, got slade ore, tried to make rathesteel.
I have the opposite problem. There is a "Rathesteel" option underneath the metalsmiths forge, but I can't smelt it.