Looking forward to this. Also, a warning to you all; I live in south east Asia, and may not be able to answer all your questions immediately. If you would like to know what times I'm on, just check my profile page. I will be on mostly after 4:00 PM my time.
Mafia rule #76 - never explain yourself before being asked to. Keep valid excuses as aces up your sleeves.
I didn't expect this from a man who had that 'harder ball' quote for his signature for quite a while. :P But really, explaining something before being asked to may be considered an overdefence.Mafia rule #76 - never explain yourself before being asked to. Keep valid excuses as aces up your sleeves.
This isn't exactly the sort of thing I want you to emphasize as an IC.
I want them to learn how to play good, solid, fundamental town games, not a bunch of dirty scum tricks. They can figure those out on their own or they can pick them up from other players on their scumteam in other games.
Alternatively, we can kick out previous BM players out who probably don't need to play another one.
ansontan2000, you suspect someone as a cop, but your night action says they are town, how do you proceed?
ansontan2000, you suspect someone as a cop, but your night action says they are town, how do you proceed?
Andrew425, I've seen you around here before, in previous games when reading them. If you were a doctor, how would you choose your target?
Remalle
Random votes suffice until the game gets going.The above quote is kinda misleading - sure, you may choose to waste the RVS (aka random vote stage) away by useless questions and wait for something to happen, but it is a better idea to push someone suspicious meanwhile, thus forming an opinion of them based on their response. (and yes, I know that the original quote referred to the inadvisability of FoSes this early, but someone may get a wrong opinion from reading it)
FanofgamingI was a bit disappointed, to be honest -- I was hoping to be scum. I also found the PM to be extremely misleading, what with the "WE ARE ALL MAFIA" thing.
How did you react when you read your alignment?
What are you talking about? Only the cop can see the scum.
Nilum, I've never seen you around here before, so answer me a question. Let's say you're scum and somebody's been somewhat successfully hounding you all of Day 1. Do you kill them during Night 1? What if they've been unsuccessfully hounding you? What if they've been very successfully and you only made it through Day 1 by a miracle?A battery of questions right off the bat. To answer:
Unvote, Nilum, say you are scum, your scumbuddy is in trouble. Do you lynch him to make yourself look better, protect him and risk getting called out for it or try to ignore his predicament?I would lynch him immediately. Busing is rarely expected.
Mormota: It depends on the situation. If someone quite obviously has shown that they're that role, then it could very easily backfire on me. However, if I had that role, I would have told it out to prevent myself from being lynched if possible should I know who the scum are.
FanofGaming, If you were about to get lynched and you were scum, what would you try to do to convince the others to not lynch you?
Dariush, if you were a godfather and a cop investigated you, and came up with town, what would you do if he said it in the thread?
FanofGaming, If you were about to get lynched and you were scum, what would you try to do to convince the others to not lynch you?That's a somewhat silly question. I'd probably just keep scumhunting. I might claim doctor (maybe cop, but not likely) if it looked as if there were no other way out and if my scum partner were alive.
Because I'd written most of the post before he had even voted for me. I spent more than the interim 6 minutes composing my message, and even though he voted me before I actually hit 'post', my reasons for questioning Halmie still remained. I'd think it scummy to refrain from questioning someone out of fears of sending a null tell. Do you disagree?FanofGaming, If you were about to get lynched and you were scum, what would you try to do to convince the others to not lynch you?Nilum, You seem to have directed your vote at the person who voted for you. Why would you do that?
Unvote, Nilum, say you are scum, your scumbuddy is in trouble. Do you lynch him to make yourself look better, protect him and risk getting called out for it or try to ignore his predicament?
Fanofgaming, if your scum partner was going to be lynched, would you bus him to look less scummy when there could be a chance that he could be saved?
Dariush, if you were a godfather and a cop investigated you, and came up with town, what would you do if he said it in the thread?This is the exact opposite side of the situation Halmie asked you about. Why don't you come up with your own questions?
Please elaborate. By anthill pokers, if there were more than one, how would you choose them?
Andrew, assume you are a doctor, and N1 you save someone and there is no nightkill. The following day, town is trying to lynch the person you saved. Do you claim, or otherwise attempt to deflect suspicion?
Andrew, what did you mean by 'only the cop can see the scum'?As per my understanding of the rules, only the cop can use the night action to determine scum or not. I'm wondering why someone would be in the situation that they suspect a guy as being the cop and then find out he's town through a night action.
Andrew, that question was not directed at you. Why did you respond? If you were scum, who would you want your scum partner to be?I wasn't responding to your question I was trying to wonder what you meant. As I wrote above, to my knowledge, only the cop uses a night action to see if other people are scum or not. If I was scum I would want, barring the ICs, probably Remalle as I have played with him before.
Dariush, if you were doctor, would you protect someone N1?Considering that scum have the only kill, it is pretty obvious I would protect someone. There's simply no point in doing otherwise.
Dariush, if you were a godfather and a cop investigated you, and came up with town, what would you do if he said it in the thread?I would do the same thing I would if I was not a godfather and cop investigated me, coming up town. Even if I was regular ol' scum. Yes, I'm looking at you, Remalle.
MormotaQuoteAndrew, that question was not directed at you. Why did you respond? If you were scum, who would you want your scum partner to be?I wasn't responding to your question I was trying to wonder what you meant. As I wrote above, to my knowledge, only the cop uses a night action to see if other people are scum or not.
If I was scum I would want, barring the ICs, probably Remalle as I have played with him before.
Unvote,Mormota
You would claim a role you didn't have so the town wouldn't lynch you?
Considering that scum have the only kill, it is pretty obvious I would protect someone. There's simply no point in doing otherwise.
Fanofgaming, if your scum partner was going to be lynched, would you bus him to look less scummy when there could be a chance that he could be saved?If I were scum, then I wouldn't hesitate to bus my partner if he were acting scummy.
Because I'd written most of the post before he had even voted for me. I spent more than the interim 6 minutes composing my message, and even though he voted me before I actually hit 'post', my reasons for questioning Halmie still remained. I'd think it scummy to refrain from questioning someone out of fears of sending a null tell. Do you disagree?Fair enough, I suppose.
RemalleUm, to play better, I guess? I'm not entirely sure what you mean by "techniques". Do you mean stuff like scumhunting, because yeah, I'm fairly sure I'll be scumhunting in this game.
We've played before, how will you apply the techniques we learnt last time to this game?
Remalle, last BM you claimed Doctor despite being a regular townie. Are you going to retry the same trick again?Not unless I had to, and before you ask, I don't know yet in what situation I would have to. Since I only pulled that trick out in the last game, nobody's going to be trusting me with any claims just now, but there is the chance that someone will take my claims at face value just because they don't expect me to try the same gambit twice in a row.
Yes, I'm looking at you, Remalle.lolwut
Mormota, if you were townie and it looked as if you were about to get lynched, would you claim a role? (lol)
How 'bout a nice game of chess
Mormota. How experienced are you in mafia?
Remalle, do you feel you can accomplish much by spreading your effort among so many people? Or will you only ask follow-up questions where you get something suspicious?A bit of both. I want to try and figure out people's thought processes and play styles from their answers, thus asking a bunch of people different questions.
Andrew: I'm flattered that you'd pick me as your partner, but do you really think having played together before is the best qualification? What would your ideal scumbuddy be?
Fanofgaming,It might be a bit too early to claim a town read on someone, but if it looks like I am acting town, then I'm glad to hear that, I guess. I'm just asking and answering questions, which won't be acceptable on its own after the RVS (which should be ending pretty soon, I think). So I guess that means I'll be scumhunting like a police drug dog. May I also request that you bold names when asking a question to someone? Thanks.
My read on you is that you are acting fairly town, how will you keep up your appearances?
Unvote, Nilum, say you are scum, your scumbuddy is in trouble. Do you lynch him to make yourself look better, protect him and risk getting called out for it or try to ignore his predicament?Fanofgaming, if your scum partner was going to be lynched, would you bus him to look less scummy when there could be a chance that he could be saved?
Mormota, I was not aware that we can't steal other's questions. What if we wanted to ask the same question, but to different people?
Also, Remalle, I would kill the cop and block the doctor at all times, as it would bring less chance of the cop finding out who we are. Then for the next night kill I could take out the doctor.
What did I say about this before? Oh yeah, right.Dariush, if you were a godfather and a cop investigated you, and came up with town, what would you do if he said it in the thread?This is the exact opposite side of the situation Halmie asked you about. Why don't you come up with your own questions?
You still did not respond to it, and did it again. Only this time, you asked the same thing worded differently.
Unvote; Andrew, you now have the most votes. What do you think about that? Even though it's early in the game, do you have any reads on anyone yet?
Andrew, you asked Remalle what he thought about Mormota's saying he'd fakeclaim. Why? Are you trying to buddy up with Remalle? Or perhaps Remalle is your scum buddy?
Everyone, what would be your favorite role to play in Mafia?
Remalle,I don't like it. Too much of a chance of throwing the town into unnecessary confusion just to cover his own ass.
What do you think of Mormota saying that he would fake claim if it would save him from a lynch?
My ideal scumbuddy would be someone who could lead a crusade, you did that fairly well last time and had some good intuition on when or if to claim so someone like you only more experienced and maybe less gutsy.K then.
Everyone, what would be your favorite role to play in Mafia?I like third party roles, especially the serial killer and cultist. It's just a different experience, I guess.
Oh, yeah. Remalle, you asked a question to everybody except Nilum and myself. What gives? This isn't so much me finding that scummy as it is me feeling left out. :-(I'm so sorry :-\ I ran out of punctuation.
Nilum: Do you prefer to be vanilla mafia or vanilla town? Why?I'll just go sit in the corner and cry now.
Halmie, assume you're a cop and town is dead-set on lynching a lurker who you know to be innocent. What would you do? What if instead of a lurker, it were an active pro-town player?I wouldn't try extra hard to defend the lurker, I couldn't fully guarantee that he is town. If it were an active pro-town player then I might see who is attacking him, though I would suspect mafia to
Alright, RVS time. Halmie. What did you think when you got your role PM with its implication that everyone is mafia? Were you confused?I was confused for a few seconds.
Dariush; what role were you hoping for coming into this game? Are you disappointed with what you got?Doing some rolefishing are we? How is he supposed to answer the second part of the question adequately without giving anything away that might help scum?
So, Jim. Let's assume for a second that you're scum. Do you think the fact that you're an IC would give you a massive advantage in remaining undetected?
Unvote, Nilum, say you are scum, your scumbuddy is in trouble. Do you lynch him to make yourself look better, protect him and risk getting called out for it or try to ignore his predicament?I would lynch him immediately. Busing is rarely expected.
Mormota, Yes I would claim a role if possible, should it make the rerst of the town not lynch me.
Please, we need more comedic relief if people continue to be as insane as this.
Jim, what are your thoughts on Dariush, both as a player and an IC?
Jim,
Do you enjoy RVS or is it tiresome for you?
Everyone, what would be your favorite role to play in Mafia?
Requesting votecount please.
Fakeclaiming is a generally serious and dangerous action for town, but if you know that you're town and you're about to be lynched at LyLO, it's better to fakeclaim than it is to just sit there and die... most of the time. You might accidentally draw out the actual holder of the role, but I'd hope that they wouldn't be dumb enough to immediately counterclaim. I would never fakeclaim as town outside of LyLO.
To answer you: If it was LyLO, most definitely. If someone has that role, he'd think I'm scum and probably lynch me anyways. If nobody does, then there's a chance we'll lynch scum.Except this is exactly what scum would do. Any fakeclaim is an anti-town move. (well, ninja'd by Jim)
If it wasn't LyLO, then I would probably still do it. A possible scum lynch instead of a certain town lynch? Why would I choose the second?
Why would I protect randomly when I can save not only the most useful player but also the likeliest one to be attacked? What are you getting at with those questions, Mormota?Considering that scum have the only kill, it is pretty obvious I would protect someone. There's simply no point in doing otherwise.
Would you choose who to protect randomly, or would you try to protect the person who seems best at scumhunting? Perhaps one of the ICs? Yes, I am aware you are an IC in this game, but we're talking about a hypothetical game.
Mormota, if you were townie and it looked as if you were about to get lynched, would you claim a role? (lol)No, no, no, NO. This is not how things are done. The only time joke questions like this are accepted is when they are sandwiched between actual useful (or at least as useful as RVS question get) questions at the start of the game.
Fanofgaming,Again, an absolutely wrong and scummy question to ask. It has no answer that won't incriminate the answerer, it gives absolutely no information and it is just frankly a bad idea to claim that you think someone is town, especially while we're still in RVS, since they will no longer feel pressured by you.
My read on you is that you are acting fairly town, how will you keep up your appearances?
You act as if that was my only post so far. Hell, you're making it seem like that was the only purposeful thing I put in that post. Is it a crime to throw in a joke after answering questions directed at you? And is it even more of a crime when the aforementioned joke actually serves a purpose? Way to misrep me. My eye = on you.Mormota, if you were townie and it looked as if you were about to get lynched, would you claim a role? (lol)No, no, no, NO. This is not how things are done. The only time joke questions like this are accepted is when they are sandwiched between actual useful (or at least as useful as RVS question get) questions at the start of the game.
Besides Mormota admitting he's scum? No, everyone else is doing a decent job but then again it is very early into the game.
(I think you're ready.)
Just don't do it, not while I'm watching all of you.
Dariush, if you could choose one scumpartner, who would it be (non IC)
Jim: I want to know everyone's favorite roles to play, as it may have a chance to actually be the role they have, as was proven with Shark last BM.
I'm trying to teach you what would and wouldn't get your sorry ass lynched, you halfwit. Jokes themselves are okay if you're considerate while dispatching them, but if you address someone while joking it means that you're expecting an answer. Do you see the problem with answering joke questions?You act as if that was my only post so far. Hell, you're making it seem like that was the only purposeful thing I put in that post. Is it a crime to throw in a joke after answering questions directed at you? And is it even more of a crime when the aforementioned joke actually serves a purpose? Way to misrep me. My eye = on you.Mormota, if you were townie and it looked as if you were about to get lynched, would you claim a role? (lol)No, no, no, NO. This is not how things are done. The only time joke questions like this are accepted is when they are sandwiched between actual useful (or at least as useful as RVS question get) questions at the start of the game.
I'm trying to teach you what would and wouldn't get your sorry ass lynched, you halfwit. Jokes themselves are okay if you're considerate while dispatching them, but if you address someone while joking it means that you're expecting an answer. Do you see the problem with answering joke questions?You act as if that was my only post so far. Hell, you're making it seem like that was the only purposeful thing I put in that post. Is it a crime to throw in a joke after answering questions directed at you? And is it even more of a crime when the aforementioned joke actually serves a purpose? Way to misrep me. My eye = on you.Mormota, if you were townie and it looked as if you were about to get lynched, would you claim a role? (lol)No, no, no, NO. This is not how things are done. The only time joke questions like this are accepted is when they are sandwiched between actual useful (or at least as useful as RVS question get) questions at the start of the game.
Mormota, don't ignore me.
Why would I protect randomly when I can save not only the most useful player but also the likeliest one to be attacked? What are you getting at with those questions, Mormota?
Mormota: Answer to first question: Yes I have found people suspicious. Specifically, Andrew based on his actions and questions beforehand. The reason i'm still asking around? If I am wrong and he justifies himself, I can still take an instant lead on someone based on their answers to my questions now.
Second question: Why wouldn't I? If I could find out who the Roleblocker or Godfather are, it would help us townies find scum.
And a question to you: What are your suspicions on Andrew?
Mormota: Answer to first question: Yes I have found people suspicious. Specifically, Andrew based on his actions and questions beforehand. The reason i'm still asking around? If I am wrong and he justifies himself, I can still take an instant lead on someone based on their answers to my questions now.
What I'm doing is trying to catch you desperately flailing as you realize "hey, I never got that message, how can I respond without that knowledge oh nooooo". I guess not, though.Alright, RVS time. Halmie. What did you think when you got your role PM with its implication that everyone is mafia? Were you confused?I was confused for a few seconds.
You seem to be trying to paint yourself as a townie by hinting that you got that as role message.
Dariush is a big boy. I'm sure he can take care of himself when the big bad Remalle comes and asks him a question. And you seem to be implying that you somehow know he's not scum...?Dariush; what role were you hoping for coming into this game? Are you disappointed with what you got?Doing some rolefishing are we? How is he supposed to answer the second part of the question adequately without giving anything away that might help scum?
Remalle.omg, u suk
Nilum: Do you prefer to be vanilla mafia or vanilla town? Why?Vanilla mafia seems like it'd be more entertaining; town is interesting, though. I certainly need more experience practicing my basic skills. I suppose I'd go with the latter.
Mormota
ansontan2000
Fanofgaming
Remalle
The 'have-not-posted-enough-to-get-a-read' club:
Halmie
Dariush
Jim Groovester
First off, deliberately misinterpreting someone!
'Randomly' is a pretty poor metric to choose your target, as a doctor. Why not go for someone who you think is going to be nightkilled? If a cop "appears" (I assume by claiming...) you say you'd protect them, but what if that cop was really scum falseclaiming? You've informed everyone of your plan, and if the mafia decide to no-kill (and you protect the one who's false-claiming cop), you'll assume you've got a confirmed town player! Who's also a cop! What luck!! Practically invulnerable, too!!!
This is a poorly thought-out answer. Worse, as you've got experience, one of the novice players might decide to follow your 'plan' (I hesitate to call it that). You could destroy all hopes of town winning. For the sake of all of us, please don't spread horrible, horrible advice. It's in your best interests to avoid spreading it, too, unless you're scum.
Andrew's suspicious actions, he straight-out lied.Please point me to that place.
If you find Andrew suspicious, why do you not ask him a question? And why do you ask about my suspicions on Andrew, if you share them?That's a deflection if I've ever seen one.
Andrew, Why did you think I appeared town? Do you still think that I do?
You point out where I said that right now. Or I will see you hang, liar.
MormotaQuoteAndrew's suspicious actions, he straight-out lied.Please point me to that place.
Besides Mormota admitting he's scum?
MormotaQuoteIf you find Andrew suspicious, why do you not ask him a question? And why do you ask about my suspicions on Andrew, if you share them?That's a deflection if I've ever seen one.
And a question to you: What are your suspicions on Andrew?
I could just pull a Dariush and say: My suspicion is that he's scum.
But I know that's not what you meant. Just to point out the most recent of Andrew's suspicious actions, he straight-out lied. Town does not want to incriminate other people, scum do. Yes Andrew, I'm calling you scum.
MormotaQuoteYou point out where I said that right now. Or I will see you hang, liar.Would you Fakeclaim?
"most definitely"
Your move, scum.
Just to point out the most recent of Andrew's suspicious actions, he straight-out lied. Town does not want to incriminate other people, scum do. Yes Andrew, I'm calling you scum.
Unvote,Mormota
You would claim a role you didn't have so the town wouldn't lynch you?
I believe this is again the same question someone asked already. More specifically, I did. God, why can't people come up with their own questions?
To answer you: If it was LyLO, most definitely. If someone has that role, he'd think I'm scum and probably lynch me anyways. If nobody does, then there's a chance we'll lynch scum.
As you wish.
Just to point out the most recent of Andrew's suspicious actions, he straight-out lied. Town does not want to incriminate other people, scum do. Yes Andrew, I'm calling you scum.
Two things here: Same thing as to ansontan: You know I find someone asking the same question as someone else scummy, yet you can't find any other question to ask. How so?
Andrew425, I find your behaviour a tell-tale sign of being scum.OMGUS
As you wish.Where?
If you had read I had already asked you to point me to the place where I lied.
Of course I was going to ask that question again, because I couldn't believe that you would say it. Not only did you confirm it (That fakeclaiming is an okay tactic for you) you also say to Remelle that this isn't your first time playing so you don't have any excuses.
OMGUS
To clarify. You say it's OK to fakeclaim = You are scum.
Unvote,MormotaTo answer you: If it was LyLO, most definitely. If someone has that role, he'd think I'm scum and probably lynch me anyways. If nobody does, then there's a chance we'll lynch scum.
You would claim a role you didn't have so the town wouldn't lynch you?
If it wasn't LyLO, then I would probably still do it. A possible scum lynch instead of a certain town lynch? Why would I choose the second?
It's nice of you to say my name first, but... Huh?Yeah, that would mean that he thinks you're acting scummy. I don't entirely disagree, but I wouldn't say you're in my top three scummiest players at this point. I might have some questions for you a bit later, when I'm done with Andrew.
You call that a flat-out lie? You said you'd probably fakeclaim at any point if you're about to be lynched. Doing it at LyLO is one thing, but 'just whenever'? Though I agree that it's not the same as admitting you're scum, it's not a lie.MormotaQuoteAndrew's suspicious actions, he straight-out lied.Please point me to that place.
As you wish.Besides Mormota admitting he's scum?
So let's see what else you got.
You know I find someone asking the same question as someone else scummyI don't understand why you find that scummy. Newbish, I'll agree. Moronic, even. Hell, plain lazy. But it's not scummy.
FanofgamingOkay, so you thought I seemed town until I started attacking you. I see. You're also misrepping the hell out of me. I very clearly stated that I can see where Mormota is coming from, but I would never support a fakeclaim from town outside of LyLO. At this point, I'd be perfectly fine with a lynch on Andrew. And don't say that I'm buddying up with Mormota by saying that, because you seem to be just about everyone's top scum read at this point. Congratulations.QuoteAndrew, Why did you think I appeared town? Do you still think that I do?
I thought you appeared town because up to yesterday you were doing everything right a town should do. Then you buddy up with Mormota on his idea that fakeclaiming is a good idea. So no.
I don't understand why you find that scummy. Newbish, I'll agree. Moronic, even. Hell, plain lazy. But it's not scummy.
You call that a flat-out lie? You said you'd probably fakeclaim at any point if you're about to be lynched. Doing it at LyLO is one thing, but 'just whenever'? Though I agree that it's not the same as admitting you're scum, it's not a lie.
FanofgamingOkay, so you thought I seemed town until I started attacking you. I see.QuoteAndrew, Why did you think I appeared town? Do you still think that I do?
I thought you appeared town because up to yesterday you were doing everything right a town should do. Then you buddy up with Mormota on his idea that fakeclaiming is a good idea. So no.
The moment that I started "buddying up", as he'd say (he stole that term from me, by the way), with you was the same as the moment I started attacking him. Why do you think I asked him that question in the first place? Also, what do you mean by "adding one more 'helping' hand to the lynch"? I legitimately don't understand what you're trying to say by that.FanofgamingOkay, so you thought I seemed town until I started attacking you. I see.QuoteAndrew, Why did you think I appeared town? Do you still think that I do?
I thought you appeared town because up to yesterday you were doing everything right a town should do. Then you buddy up with Mormota on his idea that fakeclaiming is a good idea. So no.
Wait a second there. That sentence right there puts you in a whole other light. Andrew did not state his opinion changed of you because you "attacked" him. That may be true, but you act as if he said that. He did not. That sentence just gives me this gut feeling you're scum, adding one more "helping" hand to the lynch, ensuring the D1 lynch is Andrew.
I'll be keeping an eye on you, Fanofgaming.
The moment that I started "buddying up", as he'd say (he stole that term from me, by the way), with you was the same as the moment I started attacking him. Why do you think I asked him that question in the first place? Also, what do you mean by "adding one more 'helping' hand to the lynch"? I legitimately don't understand what you're trying to say by that.
If it wasn't LyLO, then I would probably still do it. A possible scum lynch instead of a certain town lynch? Why would I choose the second?Because a town lynch is still acceptable. When you die, you cast all the people who accuse you into a new light. And because you're screwing up the rest of us when you lie and say that you are something you aren't. Only scum needs to do that.
What would I need excuses for?For saying something scummy. I was willing to write it off to being a new player, since we are in Beginners Mafia, but since you've proven that you've played multiple times before you have no excuses.
I explained my reasoning behind why I would fakeclaim as town, and whenExplaining your reasons for being scummy doesn't make you less scummy.
Okay, so you thought I seemed town until I started attacking you. I see.Not when you started attacking me, but rather when you said you'd be ok with fakeclaiming. Which raises suspicion in my book
PEdit: Oh, look. Mormota has voted for you, Andrew. It looks like you'll probably be our first lynch.
Because to me it shows he's just trying to emulate people actually scumhunting, and does not feel he can start picking at someone because he knows that someone is town.
Jim: I want to know everyone's favorite roles to play, as it may have a chance to actually be the role they have, as was proven with Shark last BM.
Just to point out the most recent of Andrew's suspicious actions, he straight-out lied.
Besides Mormota admitting he's scum?
So let's see what else you got.
Seriously? RIGHT BELOW THE LINE YOU QUOTED, I QUOTED YOUR LIE! Please, don't be so thick.
'Randomly' is a pretty poor metric to choose your target, as a doctor. Why not go for someone who you think is going to be nightkilled? If a cop "appears" (I assume by claiming...) you say you'd protect them, but what if that cop was really scum falseclaiming? You've informed everyone of your plan, and if the mafia decide to no-kill (and you protect the one who's false-claiming cop), you'll assume you've got a confirmed town player! Who's also a cop! What luck!! Practically invulnerable, too!!!
This is a poorly thought-out answer. Worse, as you've got experience, one of the novice players might decide to follow your 'plan' (I hesitate to call it that). You could destroy all hopes of town winning. For the sake of all of us, please don't spread horrible, horrible advice. It's in your best interests to avoid spreading it, too, unless you're scum.
Yeah, that would mean that he thinks you're acting scummy. I don't entirely disagree, but I wouldn't say you're in my top three scummiest players at this point. I might have some questions for you a bit later, when I'm done with Andrew.
PEdit: Oh, look. Mormota has voted for you, Andrew. It looks like you'll probably be our first lynch.
Unvote; Andrew, you now have the most votes. What do you think about that? Even though it's early in the game, do you have any reads on anyone yet?
I see you aren't getting the connection, saying that you will lie to us in the future if you're in danger means that you are willing to lie. Only scum need to lie, thus you're saying that you're scum. No getting around it.I agree with this. No use arguing it any further, though. You're just repeating yourself at this point. You too, Mormota.
FanofgamingYou really need to stop misrepping people, it's scummy as hell. Fakeclaiming at LyLO if you're about to be lynched and if you know that you're town is what I said I'd be okay with. If you don't claim, town will definitely lose. If you do claim, town might not lose.
Not when you started attacking me, but rather when you said you'd be ok with fakeclaiming. Which raises suspicion in my book
FanofgamingThis seems like a forced claim of indifference and I don't believe it for a second.
Any reason you're mentioning this? Trying to make me squeal? Guess what, somebody has to get lynched first and if it's me then oh well. It'll give the other town more clues on who the scum are on Day 2.
I'm seriously having trouble believing you could say something like this and be town right now.Really? Would you prefer that I just sit here like an idiot and wait for other people to scumhunt for me? Or perhaps I could just sit here and wait for you to tell me to do exactly what I'm already doing. I'm sure you know better than I do that scumhunting is nothing if you're not confident and if you don't keep applying pressure (good job on trying to pressure me, by the way).
I agree with this. No use arguing it any further, though. You're just repeating yourself at this point. You too, Mormota.
PEdit: Ohai, Jim. If you haven't noticed, Andrew hasn't exactly reacted well to the pressure that I've been putting on him. That's what RVS is for, isn't it? Applying pressure to people randomly until someone screws up?
Also...I'm seriously having trouble believing you could say something like this and be town right now.Really? Would you prefer that I just sit here like an idiot and wait for other people to scumhunt for me? Or perhaps I could just sit here and wait for you to tell me to do exactly what I'm already doing. I'm sure you know better than I do that scumhunting is nothing if you're not confident and if you don't keep applying pressure (good job on trying to pressure me, by the way).
Yeah, that would mean that he thinks you're acting scummy. I don't entirely disagree, but I wouldn't say you're in my top three scummiest players at this point. I might have some questions for you a bit later, when I'm done with Andrew.
Why did you answer this question from Mormota directed at Nilum?
Quit trying to cover for your scumbuddy, scum.
They're just wasting each other's time. Assuming that at least one of them isn't scum, that's time (t)he(y) could be spending doing something useful instead of just going around in circles. I was under the impression that it's pro-town to not want to see people wasting time by doing jack shit.I agree with this. No use arguing it any further, though. You're just repeating yourself at this point. You too, Mormota.
What stake do you have in their argument that you want to make it stop?
Being diplomatic and trying to resolve conflict is not a town quality, so you don't have to pretend like you care.
Really? You've been putting pressure on him?Sorry, Jim. I'm not going to go read everything for you. That's your job, not mine. Well, mine too, but I've already done it for myself.
News to me. Mayhaps you'd like to explain just exactly how he's not reacting well to your 'pressure' because I don't see it and I don't buy it.
Stating somebody is likely to get lynched isn't scumhunting. Good job with the speech though, but since it doesn't actually answer anything in specific that I brought up against you it's completely pointless and empty.By telling him that he's probably going to be lynched, pressure is increased and it also makes me seem more confident, which increases pressure even further. But now you've gone and ruined that by making me say it, so good job, Jim.
Also, way to not answer my other question:Sorry, I was under the impression that you had already made up your own answer for me. Which you did. But to humor you, I answered that question from Mormota directed at Nilum because it was a question that I could answer while also throwing in a bit of my own opinion.Yeah, that would mean that he thinks you're acting scummy. I don't entirely disagree, but I wouldn't say you're in my top three scummiest players at this point. I might have some questions for you a bit later, when I'm done with Andrew.
Why did you answer this question from Mormota directed at Nilum?
Quit trying to cover for your scumbuddy, scum.
I didn't consider it WIFOM so much as optimal play. Here's another scenario: let's assume for a moment you're scum. Mafia. Andrew has flat-out said that he will protect the cop if one "appears". It's day 2, and there are 7 players left alive -- 2 scum, 5 town. This is the earliest any cop would claim. Tomorrow will be Lylo if no one is protected and town mislynches again. If a cop claims, and declares he's found scum, it would be in your best interests to leave him alive -- killing him would damn either you or your scumbuddy. As a doctor, protecting the cop would be poor play.'Randomly' is a pretty poor metric to choose your target, as a doctor. Why not go for someone who you think is going to be nightkilled? If a cop "appears" (I assume by claiming...) you say you'd protect them, but what if that cop was really scum falseclaiming? You've informed everyone of your plan, and if the mafia decide to no-kill (and you protect the one who's false-claiming cop), you'll assume you've got a confirmed town player! Who's also a cop! What luck!! Practically invulnerable, too!!!
This is a poorly thought-out answer. Worse, as you've got experience, one of the novice players might decide to follow your 'plan' (I hesitate to call it that). You could destroy all hopes of town winning. For the sake of all of us, please don't spread horrible, horrible advice. It's in your best interests to avoid spreading it, too, unless you're scum.
This is WIFOM. It's not even good WIFOM. It's utterly ridiculous WIFOM.
What are you trying to get at, and how does your extremely creative interpretation and implications based on Andrew425's answer make him scum in any way whatsoever?
You can't make up shit to justify your arguments.
Also, if you suspect him, vote for him. Why aren't you, Mr. Scummy Scum Nilum?We have 2 (real) days to go until the day is over. Right now, I'm more concerned with getting lurkers (like Halmie) out here than jumping on the Andrew bandwagon in an effort to do what, exactly? He's scum. He's going to slip under pressure, and placing him at the top of my list achieves everything a vote would, while freeing my vote to actually influence other players.
They're just wasting each other's time. Assuming that at least one of them isn't scum, that's time (t)he(y) could be spending doing something useful instead of just going around in circles. I was under the impression that it's pro-town to not want to see people wasting time by doing jack shit.
Really? You've been putting pressure on him?Sorry, Jim. I'm not going to go read everything for you. That's your job, not mine. Well, mine too, but I've already done it for myself.
News to me. Mayhaps you'd like to explain just exactly how he's not reacting well to your 'pressure' because I don't see it and I don't buy it.
Stating somebody is likely to get lynched isn't scumhunting. Good job with the speech though, but since it doesn't actually answer anything in specific that I brought up against you it's completely pointless and empty.By telling him that he's probably going to be lynched, pressure is increased and it also makes me seem more confident, which increases pressure even further. But now you've gone and ruined that by making me say it, so good job, Jim.
Why did you answer this question from Mormota directed at Nilum?Sorry, I was under the impression that you had already made up your own answer for me. Which you did. But to humor you, I answered that question from Mormota directed at Nilum because it was a question that I could answer while also throwing in a bit of my own opinion.
Quit trying to cover for your scumbuddy, scum.
Mormota: At this point I'm thinking that either you or Andrew are scum. You are scum hunting quite well, and Andrew is seeming to be an active lurker.
Jim: Thanks for the help. My suspicions are mainly on Andrew. The reason why I haven't made a case yet? Because of Mormota prodding. I wanted to make sure of the validity of his answers and making sure HES not scum, as that will just backfire on me.
Andrew: It's time to hang, scum. Why is it you have been showing us all lies from the very start?
Jim: I want to know everyone's favorite roles to play, as it may have a chance to actually be the role they have, as was proven with Shark last BM.
How does this help you find scum?
I didn't consider it WIFOM so much as optimal play. Here's another scenario: let's assume for a moment you're scum. Mafia. Andrew has flat-out said that he will protect the cop if one "appears". It's day 2, and there are 7 players left alive -- 2 scum, 5 town. This is the earliest any cop would claim. Tomorrow will be Lylo if no one is protected and town mislynches again. If a cop claims, and declares he's found scum, it would be in your best interests to leave him alive -- killing him would damn either you or your scumbuddy. As a doctor, protecting the cop would be poor play.'Randomly' is a pretty poor metric to choose your target, as a doctor. Why not go for someone who you think is going to be nightkilled? If a cop "appears" (I assume by claiming...) you say you'd protect them, but what if that cop was really scum falseclaiming? You've informed everyone of your plan, and if the mafia decide to no-kill (and you protect the one who's false-claiming cop), you'll assume you've got a confirmed town player! Who's also a cop! What luck!! Practically invulnerable, too!!!
This is a poorly thought-out answer. Worse, as you've got experience, one of the novice players might decide to follow your 'plan' (I hesitate to call it that). You could destroy all hopes of town winning. For the sake of all of us, please don't spread horrible, horrible advice. It's in your best interests to avoid spreading it, too, unless you're scum.
This is WIFOM. It's not even good WIFOM. It's utterly ridiculous WIFOM.
What are you trying to get at, and how does your extremely creative interpretation and implications based on Andrew425's answer make him scum in any way whatsoever?
You can't make up shit to justify your arguments.
Once a cop has laid out his allegations, it's better he be killed (ideally nightkilled, rather than wasting a lynch) so his allegations can be confirmed. Andrew was saying he would actively work to prevent this from happening. I would rather have a dead cop and a confirmed scum than ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. Even a dead cop and confirmed town is better than the alternative: NOTHING. Who are the only people who want to deprive the town of information? Scum.
Also, if you suspect him, vote for him. Why aren't you, Mr. Scummy Scum Nilum?We have 2 (real) days to go until the day is over. Right now, I'm more concerned with getting lurkers (like Halmie) out here than jumping on the Andrew bandwagon in an effort to do what, exactly? He's scum. He's going to slip under pressure, and placing him at the top of my list achieves everything a vote would, while freeing my vote to actually influence other players.
So, Halmie. Get out here, and tell me: who's scum. Why are they scum, and who's their likely scum partner?
Andrew: Why is it you're only answering questions from Mormota? Why is it, that you're not actually asking questions to people in return? You're not scumhunting at all; you're just answering questions.
Buddy more, scum.
Andrew: It's time to hang, scum. Why is it you have been showing us all lies from the very start?
I see your reasoning now.
could you explain that to me because I can't.The moment that I started "buddying up", as he'd say (he stole that term from me, by the way), with you was the same as the moment I started attacking him. Why do you think I asked him that question in the first place? Also, what do you mean by "adding one more 'helping' hand to the lynch"? I legitimately don't understand what you're trying to say by that.
I see your reasoning now.
So you don't have jack shit then, else you could present it for me.Okay, I can see the logic there. It's very important for me to convince people that Andrew is acting scummy because -- oh, wait. Most of the players have already acknowledged that Andrew is acting scummy. Do you really expect me to spend an hour compiling quotes and responses just to satisfy you? You wouldn't vote for him even if I did because that would be too easy.
You see, this is why you're not town, because somebody who was town would want to present their case to people to try and convince them to come to their point of view. This is how the day game works. People make arguments on other players. Other players might ask about those arguments. The arguments are clarified. If the arguments are good, then the other players will agree and vote with you.
Fanofgaming,
My read on you is that you are acting fairly town, how will you keep up your appearances?
RemalleThis is buddying. I've said it before, and now Nilum has also said it. It's not an extremely solid scumtell, but it's hard to ignore.QuoteAndrew: I'm flattered that you'd pick me as your partner, but do you really think having played together before is the best qualification? What would your ideal scumbuddy be?
My ideal scumbuddy would be someone who could lead a crusade, you did that fairly well last time and had some good intuition on when or if to claim so someone like you only more experienced and maybe less gutsy.
Oh, look. One of his prospective buddies decided that he was acting scummy, so he doesn't want to be friends anymore. I find it very amusing that he's actually stealing my accusations on him and then he tries to use them against me.
FanofgamingQuoteAndrew, Why did you think I appeared town? Do you still think that I do?
I thought you appeared town because up to yesterday you were doing everything right a town should do. Then you buddy up with Mormota on his idea that fakeclaiming is a good idea. So no.
Slight buddying, but more importantly, misrepping.Unvote; Andrew, you now have the most votes. What do you think about that? Even though it's early in the game, do you have any reads on anyone yet?
Besides Mormota admitting he's scum? No, everyone else is doing a decent job but then again it is very early into the game.
FanofgamingMisrepping...QuoteOkay, so you thought I seemed town until I started attacking you. I see.Not when you started attacking me, but rather when you said you'd be ok with fakeclaiming. Which raises suspicion in my book
MormotaMisrepping!QuoteYou point out where I said that right now. Or I will see you hang, liar.
Would you Fakeclaim?
"most definitely"
MormotaFUCKING MISREPPING!
saying that you will lie to us in the future if you're in danger means that you are willing to lie. Only scum need to lie, thus you're saying that you're scum. No getting around it.
Of course I was going to ask that question again, because I couldn't believe that you would say it. Not only did you confirm it (That fakeclaiming is an okay tactic for you) you also say to Remelle that this isn't your first time playing so you don't have any excuses.This is bullshit. It's obvious to me that he's playing this angle as best he can to seem like he is defending everything it means to be town. Especially because almost everything he's argued so far has revolved around this fakeclaiming crap.
Any reason you're mentioning this? Trying to make me squeal? Guess what, somebody has to get lynched first and if it's me then oh well. It'll give the other town more clues on who the scum are on Day 2.This is also bullshit. As I said before, a forced claim of indifference. I don't buy it for a second. Even if he were town, I strongly doubt he'd be so 'meh' about being lynched.
Ansontan You haven't contributed anything to the discussion, content to sit at the back and try to snipe. You're being a lurker.I might be mistaken, but isn't prodding lurkers a minor scumtell? I seem to recall that coming up in the last BM.
Helmie Where art thou? What do you think about this?
I straight copy-pasted his original question. I knew that he'd know that I was joking, and indeed, he knew that I wasn't expecting a response. Also, I'd suggest lightening up on the insults, you brain-dead moron (fair's fair). Making a joke won't get me lynched in a game that has even remotely intelligent people.1) In a game you will be called a fucking bucket of crapsucking shit from hell and nobody will consider it a reason to overreact.
When I was mafia last game, our IC told us not to kill an IC N1, because 1, that would ruin the purpose of the BM if the IC couldn't lead by example and 2, He's most likely to receive protection.And how does this mean that you should protect people randomly?
Of course, this can lead to WIFOM, but you know for pretty much a fact that the IC won't get killed, so you can direct your protection elsewhere. And now comes the surprise, Watson: I ask questions to get answers. It's surprising, I know.No, you don't know it. Otherwise it wouldn't be WIFOM which it is.
1) In a game you will be called a fucking bucket of crapsucking shit from hell and nobody will consider it a reason to overreact.Let me paraphrase what you just said.
2) An out of place joke will get you lynched. People will see a player who can jest and laugh in the middle of a game as scum, since only scum can ever relax during the game.
Is there a place where we can vote on the best ICs on this forum? Because I know exactly who I wouldn't vote for. Honestly, do you even believe the crap that you're trying to spoon-feed me?
Okay, I can see the logic there. It's very important for me to convince people that Andrew is acting scummy because -- oh, wait. Most of the players have already acknowledged that Andrew is acting scummy. Do you really expect me to spend an hour compiling quotes and responses just to satisfy you? You wouldn't vote for him even if I did because that would be too easy.
The case.
This is also bullshit. As I said before, a forced claim of indifference. I don't buy it for a second. Even if he were town, I strongly doubt he'd be so 'meh' about being lynched.
I might be mistaken, but isn't prodding lurkers a minor scumtell? I seem to recall that coming up in the last BM.
Jim: The roles people are playing may influence their decisions. By asking them what roles they would like to play, it may be what they are playing in the first place.
By active lurker I mean he's not a lurker, but he is posting things without any substance. He is only answering questions driven to him by Mormota. If you'll have noticed, my vote was on him since the very beginning.
Andrew: Why is it you're only answering questions from Mormota? Why is it, that you're not actually asking questions to people in return? You're not scumhunting at all; you're just answering questions.
Ansontan You haven't contributed anything to the discussion, content to sit at the back and try to snipe. You're being a lurker.
If you want to really know how good you are, how about you make a case so good that I become dead quiet, because you know I only speak up when there's something wrong.No offense, but I am thoroughly convinced that no matter how good a case is in a BM game, you're going to find something wrong with it because that's why you're here in the first place.
Well, I guess my case must have been at least decent if all you have to say about it is that Andrew is bad. I'd have an easier time believing it, too, if he hadn't been in the previous BM.The case.
Eh, Andrew425 is just bad. It's not a crime to be terrible at a game, and that's the whole point he's here.
Also, what's your opinion of Nilum doing the same thing (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=97045.msg2805373#msg2805373)?To be honest, I hadn't noticed. I was pretty dedicated to dealing with Andrew at the time. If it's not really a scumtell, though, I guess it doesn't much matter, does it?
Well, I guess my case must have been at least decent if all you have to say about it is that Andrew is bad. I'd have an easier time believing it, too, if he hadn't been in the previous BM.
Also, what's your opinion of Nilum doing the same thing (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=97045.msg2805373#msg2805373)?To be honest, I hadn't noticed. I was pretty dedicated to dealing with Andrew at the time. If it's not really a scumtell, though, I guess it doesn't much matter, does it?
Anyway, believe it or not, I actually do value your advice, Jim. I still think Dariush is feeding me bullshit, though. Probably not on purpose. Considering the fact that you haven't actually mentioned anything to me about the advice that he's been giving me, I'm going to assume that I'm at least partially correct there.
So maybe when people try to fill you in on this sort of thing, you should try being more receptive.I'm more receptive to it than you might think. I'm just also a massive dick much of the time. To be fair, I was acting quite civil until Dariush started to directly insult me.
It does if you're giving one player crap for it instead of multiple players. If you're giving only one player crap for it when there are other players doing the same thing, then you're arbitrarily grilling people for scumtells, which makes it look like you're more interested in finding any lynch than finding and lynching scum. This is scummy.Go look back at my post. I wasn't giving Andrew crap for it. I wouldn't have even noticed if he hadn't posted that right as I was about to post my case on him (it was a PEdit). And how exactly does "I'm not sure if it's a scumtell, but..." qualify as giving him crap for it? I was legitimately asking. And now that you've pointed it out to me that Nilum has also been doing it? It still shouldn't matter that he did it, if it's not scummy in the first place. What else am I supposed to think, what with you just now telling me that it's not really a scumtell? If you're asking if I think Nilum is acting scummy or not, how can I tell? Hasn't he only posted like, five times in this entire thread? I mean, I guess those five or so posts were fairly solid, but it's still not much to go on.
You also haven't answered my question. Sure, you missed it. I can believe that. Now that I've pointed it out to you, what do you make of it?
*sigh* You don't really get this, do you? If everyone treats you like a fluffy bunny, you will crack your skull in the first serious game, after which you'll either whine for a while and ragequit or rescrew your head the correct side up. What I'm trying to do is to cut out the middleman. Judging by your reaction, you belong to the first type.1) In a game you will be called a fucking bucket of crapsucking shit from hell and nobody will consider it a reason to overreact.Let me paraphrase what you just said.
2) An out of place joke will get you lynched. People will see a player who can jest and laugh in the middle of a game as scum, since only scum can ever relax during the game.
1) "I'm going to be a jackass and you're going to like it. ACCEPT MY ADVICE, YOU PIECE OF SHIT!"
2) "If people are calm, lynch them because this is SRS BZNESS. No matter how town they look, people who are funny must die!!"
Is there a place where we can vote on the best ICs on this forum? Because I know exactly who I wouldn't vote for. Honestly, do you even believe the crap that you're trying to spoon-feed me?
I see you aren't getting the connection, saying that you will lie to us in the future if you're in danger means that you are willing to lie. Only scum need to lie, thus you're saying that you're scum. No getting around it.
MormotaQuoteWhat would I need excuses for?For saying something scummy. I was willing to write it off to being a new player, since we are in Beginners Mafia, but since you've proven that you've played multiple times before you have no excuses.
MormotaQuoteI explained my reasoning behind why I would fakeclaim as town, and whenExplaining your reasons for being scummy doesn't make you less scummy.
MormotaQuoteBecause to me it shows he's just trying to emulate people actually scumhunting, and does not feel he can start picking at someone because he knows that someone is town.Feeling the need to say how town you are?
Mormota: At this point I'm thinking that either you or Andrew are scum. You are scum hunting quite well, and Andrew is seeming to be an active lurker.
Mormota
Oh jeez, where to begin with Mormota. He's either scum or stupid, as evidenced by his views on town false-claiming. This horse has been beaten to death though, I'm afraid, and what really struck me as !!SCUM!! was this quote, here:Of course, this can lead to WIFOM, but you know for pretty much a fact that the IC won't get killed, so you can direct your protection elsewhere.To me, this really reads like a hopeful mafia trying to direct the doctor's attention somewhere else so that he can take out an IC -- the most dangerous players by far -- tonight. If I were scum, I would take out an IC tonight. I wouldn't give two damns whether they're supposed to be in this game to 'teach by example', I'm in this game to win.
Fanofgaming and Andrew: If you were the scum, what qualities would you like you scumbuddy to have?
I see you aren't getting the connection, saying that you will lie to us in the future if you're in danger means that you are willing to lie. Only scum need to lie, thus you're saying that you're scum. No getting around it.I agree with this. No use arguing it any further, though. You're just repeating yourself at this point. You too, Mormota.
When I was mafia last game, our IC told us not to kill an IC N1, because 1, that would ruin the purpose of the BM if the IC couldn't lead by example and 2, He's most likely to receive protection.And how does this mean that you should protect people randomly?
Of course, this can lead to WIFOM, but you know for pretty much a fact that the IC won't get killed, so you can direct your protection elsewhere. And now comes the surprise, Watson: I ask questions to get answers. It's surprising, I know.No, you don't know it. Otherwise it wouldn't be WIFOM which it is.
Except that's exactly what you asked about. What was the purpose of your question about protection if you already knew the answer?And how does this mean that you should protect people randomly?Fun fact: It doesn't.
That is retroactive bullshitting if I ever saw one.Notice the pretty much.Of course, this can lead to WIFOM, but you know for pretty much a fact that the IC won't get killed, so you can direct your protection elsewhere. And now comes the surprise, Watson: I ask questions to get answers. It's surprising, I know.No, you don't know it. Otherwise it wouldn't be WIFOM which it is.
Dariush, you are not asking questions. You have made one post teaching people, the rest were just answers.Fun fact: I'm correcting people when they make mistakes. How about you actually go through the thread and my posts before saying something that stupid?
You can't justify it by saying "you're helping us to get good so you can read us", because you aren't helping us. I am not going to let you lie low the entire day.Sure, I'm lying low. Not the people who are either lurking mercilessly or simply need replacing, but big bad me. Yeeeeees. [/sarcasm]
Mormota, lets say you are a cop, and you suspect someone is scum. However, your night action reveals that they are town. The next day, that person has the majority of the votes. What would you do?RVS has long passed. Asking random questions in the middle of a game will not help you neither understand what's happened earlier nor find scum.
Mormota, lets say you are a cop, and you suspect someone is scum. However, your night action reveals that they are town. The next day, that person has the majority of the votes. What would you do?
Sure, I'm lying low. Not the people who are either lurking mercilessly or simply need replacing, but big bad me. Yeeeeees. [/sarcasm]
That is retroactive bullshitting if I ever saw one.Notice the pretty much.Of course, this can lead to WIFOM, but you know for pretty much a fact that the IC won't get killed, so you can direct your protection elsewhere. And now comes the surprise, Watson: I ask questions to get answers. It's surprising, I know.No, you don't know it. Otherwise it wouldn't be WIFOM which it is.
Everyone, how come there have been only two posts since mine a day ago? Scum can wait until a nice, peaceful victory if participation remains at this low.
Everyone, how come there have been only two posts since mine a day ago? Scum can wait until a nice, peaceful victory if participation remains at this low.I was preoccupied over the weekend, but now that I have some time to spare I should be able to contribute a bit more. For the time being, I'll unvote Halmie and vote Andrew425, for reasons previously stated. Also requesting a votecount.
No, what you said is about as far from a 'fact' as is possible. ICs need doctor protection tonight because otherwise they will die. Don't speak lies as if they're the truth. I decided to take a peek at some previous beginner mafias. Literally the second one I opened up: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=87209.285 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=87209.285)Mormota
Oh jeez, where to begin with Mormota. He's either scum or stupid, as evidenced by his views on town false-claiming. This horse has been beaten to death though, I'm afraid, and what really struck me as !!SCUM!! was this quote, here:Of course, this can lead to WIFOM, but you know for pretty much a fact that the IC won't get killed, so you can direct your protection elsewhere.To me, this really reads like a hopeful mafia trying to direct the doctor's attention somewhere else so that he can take out an IC -- the most dangerous players by far -- tonight. If I were scum, I would take out an IC tonight. I wouldn't give two damns whether they're supposed to be in this game to 'teach by example', I'm in this game to win.
I'm pointing out facts. That's not directing the doctor's attention. Period.
Christ, if Andrew265 weren't such obvious scum,
So for townies in the future here is my reads on everybody.Lists are generally a pretty bad idea. If you decide to actually make one, however, make sure to supply it with arguments and whatnot instead of just spewing around probablies. (pun intended)
Anston: Scum, not even good scum.
Mormota: Flawed ideas probably not scum.
Nilum: Probably town
drakon/Remelle: Not enough info for me to make a read.
Jim: If he makes it past the third night then scum
Dariush: no idea
Fanofgaming: I'm thinking scum but I dunno.
Good luck town and sorry for not being that active enough.Double bad idea. Never, never, NEVER resign yourself to getting lynched. If you are going down, try to make as much as possible out of your remaining life. General opinion may even swing in your favor, especially considering that a lead by one vote is not that much to panic.
Stating opinions as facts?Triple bad idea. Hypocrisy is in the '10 worst things you could possibly do in a Mafia game' list, FYI.
...
Anston: Scum, not even good scum.
...
Jim: If he makes it past the third night then scum
Great, now I'm stuck with screwing your collective heads the right side on alone. Mormota, same reasons as yesteday.
So sorry everyone, but I will have to drop out. Exams at school are here, and the workload is more than ever. I can't play mafia while doing that work. I will have to drop out.
Jim -- probably the strongest player in the game -- is dead. This isn't really surprising
You, sir, are scum trying to sound like town.I think you'll enjoy the noose. For the first ten seconds, it's kinda like you're on a swingset!
Why are you attacking someone who's dropped out of the game and can't defend themselves?
Jim -- probably the strongest player in the game -- is dead. This isn't really surprising, but Mormota, you said earlier that an IC almost surely would not be killed N1. What gave you the confidence to suggest this?
Who would you have killed instead, if you were scum?
I'm just going to leave this (http://www.quicktopic.com/46/H/ELwZBY75WzQXS) here....so, you knew for a fact an IC wouldn't be killed because... why, exactly? Because Toaster told you not to in one of the past BMs?
So you can't even take a guess? Trying to think how scum think is an essential part of scumhunting. Regardless, speculating about the kill won't get us anywhere, so I'll drop it.Who would you have killed instead, if you were scum?What sort of ridiculous question is this? I am not privy to the considerations the mafia team takes.
Bussing is an effective tactic as scum precisely because town doesn't expect it. If one were expected to bus their teammates rather than defend them, the opposite, defending one's own teammates, would be unexpected, and hence more effective. Scum lose something very valuable when they bus: a vote. This prolongs the game, and it gives town a greater chance of winning. It's a risky tactic, and that is why town does not immediately suspect it. "Bussing is rarely expected," is no more 'false information' than is "doctors are often passive." They're both true. They are not absolutes, they are observations.Almost everything in here is foolish and incorrect. Bussing is not effective because it's unexpected, and it's not unexpected. Scum are not expected to defend their teammates. The only thing scum loses when they bus is their teammate. This does not prolong the game because bussing usually occurs when the bussed player is going to be lynched anyway. It does not give the town a greater chance of winning. It is not a risky tactic. The only reason town does not immediately expect it is because we don't know who's scum. Once someone flips scum, it's not uncommon for players to analyze the votes and come up with possibilities based on who voted when and why. I strongly suggest you read up on Mafia theory more, because you clearly don't command any grip of tactics other than "fakeclaiming is bad."
My questioning of Halmie was, frankly, more important than sending a null tell. It's a null tell precisely because I'd do the same thing if I were scum or town. If I were town, I'd vote him anyway, because I don't want to appear scummy and because I want answers out of Halmie. If I were scum, I'd vote him anyway because I'd be trying to act as if I were town.I love how you're so confident in yourself that you're willing to tell me that I shouldn't consider what you're doing as being scummy. I'm not saying that you're scum because you voted for Halmie after he voted for you (it was RVS). At this point, I think it's scummy because you're going out of your way to tell me that it's a null tell. Also, your last sentence there is just ridiculous. "Scum want to act like town" is not grounds for something to be a null tell.
Yes. Really. Are you telling me the lack of a comma prevented Andrew from understanding what Halmie wrote? Really? Whether he was scum or not, he was not expressing genuine confusion, he was grasping for straws trying to get something to use against Halmie -- much like you are for me, right now. Whether this is a scumtell or a newbtell, I can't tell.This is the first part where I really started laughing. First of all, you are not in a position to magically know whether somebody understands something or not. Secondly, how was he grasping for straws with a simple "I don't understand" post? Finally, did you seriously just try to dismiss my entire post by claiming that I'm just grasping for straws? Are you an idiot, sir?
Bolded because that is EXACTLY what I'm doing. How is this a scumtell? If I were scum, town false-claiming at lylo would help me immensely. I wouldn't comment on these 'bad tactics' -- I might even be the one to encourage them. Take a look. You agreed with Mormota's idea. You basically said you'd help scum throw this town into a broiling pit of WIFOM.Yes, that is exactly what you're doing, which is why I said that it was exactly what you're doing. How is it a scumtell? You are not an IC. It is not your job to teach player how to play the game. By doing so, you're trying to make the other players think that you're worth keeping around. You're also trying to drill your own WIFOM into my head by stating what you would do as scum. But if you were scum, why would you not comment on bad tactics? You said earlier that if you were scum, you'd do whatever you thought town would do... but town doesn't need to comment on bad tactics. That's why it's a scumtell. Furthermore, you're continuing Andrew's habit of misrepping me. I'll say it once more (if it come up again I'm just going to repeatedly quote this); I did not agree with Mormota's saying that it's okay to fakeclaim whenever you're about to get lynched if you're town. I said that I would never agree to fakeclaiming as town outside of LyLO. Finally, if anyone's going to throw town into a pit of WIFOM, it's you. Do I need to start quoting your bullshit about "optimal play"? I thought Jim had already done that.
I'm in this game to learn. By finding scum and winning. If I were scum, I'd be in this game to win by doing whatever needs to be done. I didn't say I don't care about the ICs teaching by example. I said if I were scum, I wouldn't care, because I wouldn't. Because they'd be a hindrance. Finding scum is about getting into the mentality scum would have, which is precisely what I was doing.Okay, wait... WHAT? Let me work backwards here. You do realize that Jim said that "looking at the nightkill" stuff to you, right? Wait, what the fuck? I didn't even mention the nightkill here other than "Oh, look, you killed the IC." Also, good job on making the IC's comments look like they were originally your ideas.
Who was killed N1 does not matter. We have no control over it, and obsessing over it or forming arguments based around it is simply playing into scum's hands. Like Jim said, speculating about the nightkill will not bear fruit.
I was trying to help by looking at probable and possible scenarios and understanding how scum would manipulate them in their favor. I realize, looking back, this was pretty stupid and all but pointless, given the sheer number of possibilities. It was definitely a dead-end, but that doesn't exactly indict me.If you don't expect to be attacked for your own poor play, then why the fuck are you attacking Mormota for his?
I voted Andrew to ensure a lynch. I wasn't sure of the exact votecounts at the time, and the deadline was approaching.This is either lazy or bullshit. What's so hard about going to the previous votecount and counting the votes up to the moment in question? Furthermore, if you were so worried about not having a lynch by the deadline, why not request an extend?
I voted Andrew to ensure a lynch. I wasn't sure of the exact votecounts at the time, and the deadline was approaching.Really? You only voted Andrew to make sure that there was a lynch? Were you even suspicious of him at all, or do you not care who gets lynched, as long as its not you? You seem awfully scummy to me, Nilum. I'm going to keep a close eye on you.
I'm just going to leave this (http://www.quicktopic.com/46/H/ELwZBY75WzQXS) here....so, you knew for a fact an IC wouldn't be killed because... why, exactly? Because Toaster told you not to in one of the past BMs?
So you can't even take a guess? Trying to think how scum think is an essential part of scumhunting.
Jim -- probably the strongest player in the game -- is dead. This isn't really surprising, but Mormota, you said earlier that an IC almost surely would not be killed N1. What gave you the confidence to suggest this? Who would you have killed instead, if you were scum?Actually, suggesting that an IC would not be killed and then seeing that IC dead is a cornucopial source of WIFOM. Don't do it.
Did you miss pretty much all of my posts D1 where I listed Andrew as the scummiest, by far? [1 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=97045.msg2805373#msg2805373)] I was on Halmie until the end because lurkers will be the death of this game, like so many others.I voted Andrew to ensure a lynch. I wasn't sure of the exact votecounts at the time, and the deadline was approaching.Really? You only voted Andrew to make sure that there was a lynch? Were you even suspicious of him at all, or do you not care who gets lynched, as long as its not you?
Nilum, I hope you'll pardon me for saying that I laughed out loud at some of your arguments in that response to me. How experienced with Mafia are you? I'm beginning to grow very curious because you conduct yourself as if you're comfortable with the game, but then your arguments are moronic and naive.As the title reads, I'm a beginner and this is my first real game of mafia. Apologies if I'm playing poorly by your standards.
Almost everything in here is foolish and incorrect. Bussing is not effective because it's unexpected, and it's not unexpected. Scum are not expected to defend their teammates. The only thing scum loses when they bus is their teammate. This does not prolong the game because bussing usually occurs when the bussed player is going to be lynched anyway. It does not give the town a greater chance of winning. It is not a risky tactic. The only reason town does not immediately expect it is because we don't know who's scum. Once someone flips scum, it's not uncommon for players to analyze the votes and come up with possibilities based on who voted when and why. I strongly suggest you read up on Mafia theory more, because you clearly don't command any grip of tactics other than "fakeclaiming is bad."Let's check out the mafiascum article on bussing (http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Bussing)!
The only thing scum loses when they bus is their teammate....and, by corollary, their teammate's vote. To win, scum have to outnumber or equal town. Bussing can give town more time, and scum more time to screw up. Bussing is obviously done only when beneficial to scum, but there are still risks involved and it still involves some amount of sacrifice. If your scumpartner were most assuredly going to be lynched, you might hesitate to jump on because at that point, it can't even really be considered bussing. If you want an example of bussing, see Wild West Mafia (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=93649.30). Jim was second on his partner, Diakron, and he stayed on him until the end of D1. He took him out because he might have been lynched, not because he was about to be lynched. Diakron wasn't even really a liability, he just had more to gain (i.e., he'd gain more favor in the town's eyes) by lynching him than by not. Someone like Jim is almost always suspected if he lives too long. He's too damn good. His early bus provided him with enough of a cushion to escape the noose later.
This does not prolong the game because bussing usually occurs when the bussed player is going to be lynched anyway.[citation needed]
I love how you're so confident in yourself that you're willing to tell me that I shouldn't consider what you're doing as being scummy. I'm not saying that you're scum because you voted for Halmie after he voted for you (it was RVS). At this point, I think it's scummy because you're going out of your way to tell me that it's a null tell. Also, your last sentence there is just ridiculous. "Scum want to act like town" is not grounds for something to be a null tell.There are very few genuine towntells. Do you know why? Because scum are trying to act like town. There are mountains of scumtells, things that hurt town and obviously no sane townie would ever do, and there are mountains of null tells, things that help town and are easy to imitate. The only true town tells are things exceptionally difficult to imitate, or risky. "Scum want to act like town, this tactic is very easily imitable," is complete grounds for something to be a null tell. Obviously voting someone who's voting me isn't pro-town; but the contrary, refusing to put a vote on them simply because they're voting for me, is anti-town. If something is neither a scumtell nor a towntell, then what is it? It's a null tell.
This is the first part where I really started laughing. First of all, you are not in a position to magically know whether somebody understands something or not. Secondly, how was he grasping for straws with a simple "I don't understand" post?I really don't know how else to say this: Andrew265 was not confused by what Halmie said. It's that simple. Anyone with enough knowledge of English to play Mafia on an English-language forum would be able to figure out what was meant. Let's look at the original sentence again.
ansontan2000, you suspect someone as a cop, but your night action says they are town, how do you proceed?Let's see how this sentence could be interpreted:
Finally, did you seriously just try to dismiss my entire post by claiming that I'm just grasping for straws? Are you an idiot, sir?Yes, I dismissed your entire post by saying you were grasping for straws. Which is why I then proceeded to answer all of your other points.
Yes, that is exactly what you're doing, which is why I said that it was exactly what you're doing. How is it a scumtell? You are not an IC. It is not your job to teach player how to play the game. By doing so, you're trying to make the other players think that you're worth keeping around. You're also trying to drill your own WIFOM into my head by stating what you would do as scum. But if you were scum, why would you not comment on bad tactics? You said earlier that if you were scum, you'd do whatever you thought town would do... but town doesn't need to comment on bad tactics. That's why it's a scumtell. Furthermore, you're continuing Andrew's habit of misrepping me. I'll say it once more (if it come up again I'm just going to repeatedly quote this); I did not agree with Mormota's saying that it's okay to fakeclaim whenever you're about to get lynched if you're town. I said that I would never agree to fakeclaiming as town outside of LyLO. Finally, if anyone's going to throw town into a pit of WIFOM, it's you. Do I need to start quoting your bullshit about "optimal play"? I thought Jim had already done that.(Emphasis mine)
You really need to stop misrepping people, it's scummy as hell. Fakeclaiming at LyLO if you're about to be lynched and if you know that you're town is what I said I'd be okay with. If you don't claim, town will definitely lose. If you do claim, town might not lose.No. Nono. Nononononononono oh god please don't subject me to this anymore. Fakeclaiming (as VT) at LyLO, at best, will cause confusion. At worst, it'll direct the entire town toward two townies: you and the real cop/doctor/whatever. And they will believe that one of you is scum. Even if you're about to be lynched, there is almost always another option. Call for an extension and use your goddamned head to figure out who is scum, and form a coherent argument against them. Without lying.
Okay, wait... WHAT? Let me work backwards here. You do realize that Jim said that "looking at the nightkill" stuff to you, right? Wait, what the fuck? I didn't even mention the nightkill here other than "Oh, look, you killed the IC." Also, good job on making the IC's comments look like they were originally your ideas."I didn't even mention the nightkill except when I mentioned the nightkill."
You're not trying to get into the mentality that scum would have. You're trying to look like a townie who is trying to get into the mentality that scum would have while also throwing in WIFOM for good measure.
If you don't expect to be attacked for your own poor play, then why the fuck are you attacking Mormota for his?Because his poor play, much like yours, is ruinous for everyone but scum.
This is either lazy or bullshit. What's so hard about going to the previous votecount and counting the votes up to the moment in question? Furthermore, if you were so worried about not having a lynch by the deadline, why not request an extend?The last votecount... hm... 56 or so posts before I made my post? Almost half the entire game? That's a lot to keep track of in my head when (to the best of my knowledge!) the day ends in 6 hours, and I have shit to do in the real world in the meantime. I did skim through the 4 pages or so since the last votecount, and honestly, I thought Andrew had either 2 or 3 votes on him. So I placed a (3rd/4th)... because at the time, I was positive he was scum, and I knew full well that a nolynch would hurt us. You're right -- I could've requested an extend, but I didn't. We wound up getting one anyway, and look what we did with it. Oh, right, nothing.
I hope you slept well, because you've got a good bit to answer for.I'm sure it'll please you to hear that the sleep was simply decadent.
I have some more things to say about Mormota, but I'm seriously exhausted. I'll post them when I wake up.
Feel free to.Sure. Most of the suspicions toward you from yesterday still hold. Admittedly, Andrew was rather on-the-nose about some things. Let's take a look.
Yes I am damn well willing to lie if I know that gives us a better chance to win.Lynch all liars is a tactic that is generally pro-town. The only situation this sentence makes sense is if 'us' refers to you and your scumbuddy.
Let me surprise you: Mafia is a game of pure, unadulterated logic. You found what you believed to be a logical falllacy in my posts, and that is what someone calls scummy. I pointed out how it wasn't a logical fallacy. Thus, I am not scummy.It wasn't a logical fallacy he was pointing out, it was anti-town play. You pointed out how you (apparently) thought it wasn't anti-town. (Hint: it was, and still is.)
Of course, this can lead to WIFOM, but you know for pretty much a fact that the IC won't get killed, so you can direct your protection elsewhere.This can't "lead to WIFOM," this is WIFOM. The doctor knows this. The mafia knows this. You were trying to steer the doctor away from the ICs. Looks like it might have worked.
To answer you: If it was LyLO, most definitely. If someone has that role, he'd think I'm scum and probably lynch me anyways. If nobody does, then there's a chance we'll lynch scum.This is pretty much the quote that started it all. The most anti-town post in this entire thread, excepting maybe Fanofgaming's suggestion that town refrain from commenting on poor play. This, right here, is not just bad strategy, Mormota. This is strategy that is destructive.
If it wasn't LyLO, then I would probably still do it. A possible scum lynch instead of a certain town lynch? Why would I choose the second?
Except... it is what you said. Andrew was right, here. There are a few situations when you should falseclaim as a VT, and none of them arise in a beginner's mafia setup. You said you'd definitely fakeclaim at lylo, and probably before it, too.MormotaQuoteYou point out where I said that right now. Or I will see you hang, liar.Would you Fakeclaim?
"most definitely"
Your move, scum.
Just that, you know, that's not what I said.
I'm pointing out facts. That's not directing the doctor's attention. Period.Two things.
So, what the hell is going on and when will the day end now? Let's admit, not much will happen at this rate... I can only guess that all the lazy arses are waiting for D2.Instead of complaining about how nothing was happening, why didn't you make something happen? You really seemed to be looking forward to the next day. Today you haven't said a single thing of value. Where'd that fire from yesterday go? Though on second thought, I really wouldn't call it 'fire'.
What the fucking hell is going on in this game.
I thought you all wanted to learn how to play mafia. Clearly I was wrong, because you'd be actually be trying to play. Instead, I see nothing happening.
Don't make me have to prod you a third time.
Yes I am damn well willing to lie if I know that gives us a better chance to win.Lynch all liars is a tactic that is generally pro-town. The only situation this sentence makes sense is if 'us' refers to you and your scumbuddy.
This entire game you've been spreading misinformation. You've been digging out the foundations that form a solid town, replacing them with your own twisted scum-logic. You've manipulated the town, pushed the doctor away from the ICs.
Here's your voting pattern:
D1: Andrew -> ansontan2000 -> FoS Andrew -> Andrew (3rd) -> FoS anson2000 -> Andrew lynch
Andrew... to anson... then back to Andrew... then, first thing today, back to anson. Except then you realize that anson isn't playing, and hey, attacking someone who can't defend themselves is kind of scummy, right? Better unvote! And with your easy lynch no longer viable, and me and Dariush closing in on you, your scumbuddy jumps to your (chainsaw) defense.
What the fucking hell is going on in this game.
I thought you all wanted to learn how to play mafia. Clearly I was wrong, because you'd be actually be trying to play. Instead, I see nothing happening.
Don't make me have to prod you a third time.
There is an air of strangeness around you, Nilum, and I don't like that, but for now, this game is going nowhere. Lynch all Lurkers activated. Halmie. I believe he is still in the game, though I haven't seen him in a long while.Do you think Lynch all Lurkers is an effective strategy right now, considering the fact that if we lynch town now we go into LyLo? Hell, is it an effective strategy EVER? Right now, I can only imagine scum wanting to do it. Even if it were a valid strategy, why pick Halmie? You can't really even analyze his past posts because he hasn't posted much of anything.
Hell, is it an effective strategy EVER?
Really, Pnx? "Just because" isn't a good reason to vote for someone.I'm sorry, what I probably should have said was "to force the game to move forward and remove an absentee player from the game".
The only people who need to fear zealous inquisition are scum.Didn't the Spanish inquisition say something similar? :D
Nevertheless I'm going to jump on the bandwagon and vote off Halmie. Just because really.
I'm sorry, what I probably should have said was "to force the game to move forward and remove an absentee player from the game".
Halmie I haven't seen any recent post at all from you on your views of the matter.
Halmie I haven't seen any recent post at all from you on your views of the matter.
Tiruin, why would you vote Halmie? To force him out of hiding? That's already happening, bro. Come up with a better reason, because you won't get away with a quick town lynch, scum.
I did not realize that he wasn't coming back. From my viewpoint, I thought he was inactive but yes, now I see what you mean there.
Halmie will be up for replacement if not posting in 12 hours., I'd not want my vote to be carried over.
The brackets are Toaster's IC schtick.I don't get what is meant by the words in bold.
You don't have to do that, since you're just a player and you don't have two modes. I guess you can if you really want to but you're not gaining anything by doing it.
Really, Pnx? "Just because" isn't a good reason to vote for someone.
Oh, shit. The day's supposed to be over now, isn't it?
Last-second extend vote, GO!
Oh, hell. I kinda accidentally slept through all of the day. I hope I can get this post out before Think makes the end-of-day post.
I find Tiruin's voting Halmie to be really silly. You can't expect somebody to post their views on the matter when they haven't posted in... what, a week? Tiruin, you haven't given your views on the matter on a lot of things, because you weren't asked to. We haven't asked Halmie to respond to anything since we realized that he wasn't coming back. That's not necessarily scummy, it's just inactive. Your vote would be almost understandable if Halmie were acting scummy before he went inactive, but right now it just seems like you're hoping to get a quick lynch out by jumping on the biggest wagon.
Tiruin, voting someone else automatically changes your vote to them. It just gives the GMs less of a headache if you put unvote first, which is something that FoG seems to have overlooked.Actually, if Think uses LurkerTracker (and I can't imagine why he wouldn't, considering he made it), the unvotes are irrelevant. But yes, you can vote as many times per day as you want.
Oh hey, this is back alive.Doesn't that make lynching easy as anyone can suspect anyone else?Tiruin, voting someone else automatically changes your vote to them. It just gives the GMs less of a headache if you put unvote first, which is something that FoG seems to have overlooked.Actually, if Think uses LurkerTracker (and I can't imagine why he wouldn't, considering he made it), the unvotes are irrelevant. But yes, you can vote as many times per day as you want.
Doesn't that make lynching easy as anyone can suspect anyone else?Uh. Yes?
Doesn't that make lynching easy as anyone can suspect anyone else?Well, you only have 1 vote -- you're just allowed to switch it as much as you want. If you change your mind, or someone's argument convinces you, then you can unvote or change your vote to someone else.
The day is over!So...its night now?
So, uh, how many people saw this post? It was supposed to be a no-lynch, but I messed up the count and accidentally revealed an alignment. If anyone saw it, I'll proceed forward, but.
So FoG was killed off in the night. Was this to silence him? To draw attention away from someone he suspected? Or did someone suspect we might suspect that and use that to their advantage?That is WIFOM, and condensed one at that. Don't do it.
Damn, I hate when I have to figure out if the enemy is using double reverse psychology or just reverse psychology. I suppose it could also just have been at random.
Work.
Work.
Woooooooooork.
You have a lot of it to do. Impress me.
You're right, it's much more probable they just thought he was annoying anyway.So FoG was killed off in the night. Was this to silence him? To draw attention away from someone he suspected? Or did someone suspect we might suspect that and use that to their advantage?That is WIFOM, and condensed one at that. Don't do it.
Damn, I hate when I have to figure out if the enemy is using double reverse psychology or just reverse psychology. I suppose it could also just have been at random.
Nilum, this (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=97045.msg2827880#msg2827880) is that last post made by you I found. That was quite a long time ago. Why were you content to just sit by and let the day pass without a vote? Why did you not do anything?...yeah, I'm still in the game. Check 12 posts above yours. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=97045.msg2838426#msg2838426)
Nilum is still in the game, right?
ICs or Mod:Don't we have about six players still alive? If there is a mislynch and a nightkill tonight then that leaves us with four players. Won't that still make the game playable? Is it possible to ask replacements questions that is normally asked on the first day?
ICs or Mod:Don't we have about six players still alive? If there is a mislynch and a nightkill tonight then that leaves us with four players. Won't that still make the game playable? Is it possible to ask replacements questions that is normally asked on the first day?
I had a vote on you, to the best of my knowledge. At the very least, I hadn't unvoted you. Had I known the day was headed toward a no-lynch, I would've tried to be more active. For most of D2, the town was horribly quiet -- when we finally started getting replacements in, their reads were shallow or just plain stupid. I had assumed things would clear up by today, once we'd struck scum and had more information at our disposal.
Since no one's said it yet: we're at mylo. If we mislynch, we lose. Our best course of action will be to nolynch today. This isn't an excuse to stop scumhunting, though.
Still, Mormota, why did you vote me when you knew that Halmie was going to be replaced?
Strange, the same thought hit me when both Mormota and FanofGaming voted me because of a bandwagon.
Still, Mormota, why did you vote me when you knew that Halmie was going to be replaced?
I don't really see what you're getting at.Strange, the same thought hit me when both Mormota and FanofGaming voted me because of a bandwagon.
How does one vote "because of a bandwagon" if one is the first to vote?
Tiruin, why would you vote Halmie? To force him out of hiding? That's already happening, bro. Come up with a better reason, because you won't get away with a quick town lynch, scum.
No lynch? Why on Earth would we do that? What do you expect to get clearer the next day that we can't get to know now? The only thing that will happen tomorrow is LyLO, scum. Why would you want that, for any reason, unless you were scum?No-lynching is a pretty good idea at MYLO, since next day we'll have one less person to risk mislynching. No lynch, but that isn't a reason to do nothing today.
Mormota, you still haven't answered my question :)
To your first, why did you place a vote on me when you did know that he was going to be replaced, the time was right after it was announced, all I'm asking is a reason though.
Extend. Not much has been done today and I wouldn't feel comfortable about a lynch like this.
Looking at who was nightkilled never gives anybody any productive reads.
Pnx: Why did you stateTo answer your question, it was because I thought I had to say something, and frankly it probably was just because he was prominent and active. But I fail to see how this is actually scummy.Spoiler: this (click to show/hide)
A night kill is a night kill.Looking at who was nightkilled never gives anybody any productive reads.
The person is dead.
N3: I got roleblocked. I could not investigate Pnx.This strikes me as awfully convenient...
Tiruin.There are two things painfully wrong with this argument. 1) Tiruin can either be a cop or scum right now. Townie is just impossible. 2) Him being 'conveniently' roleblocked actually doesn't change anything - he already found two townies so by process of elimination you and Andrew must be scum. That response really looks like an overreaction, Pnx.
What reason do I have to actually believe anything you're saying here? For all I know you've concocted the cop thing in order to lay blame at my feet, because frankly, this:N3: I got roleblocked. I could not investigate Pnx.This strikes me as awfully convenient...
I find it hard to believe a Townie would make something like this up, so honestly, to me, you're looking very, very, scummy right now.
Wow, this game is back from the dead. Who could have thought.A) I was taking the possibility of "insane townie" into account, and I didn't think immediately accusing him of being scum was productive. Although I suppose if this is how people react to me trying not to be too aggressive...Tiruin.There are two things painfully wrong with this argument. 1) Tiruin can either be a cop or scum right now. Townie is just impossible. 2) Him being 'conveniently' roleblocked actually doesn't change anything - he already found two townies so by process of elimination you and Andrew must be scum. That response really looks like an overreaction, Pnx.
What reason do I have to actually believe anything you're saying here? For all I know you've concocted the cop thing in order to lay blame at my feet, because frankly, this:N3: I got roleblocked. I could not investigate Pnx.This strikes me as awfully convenient...
I find it hard to believe a Townie would make something like this up, so honestly, to me, you're looking very, very, scummy right now.
Then we have to ask the question, "what is the probability that both the cop, and the roleblocker survived this long?"
Protip: Statistics are nowhere near as useful at finding scum as you might think.
A) I was taking the possibility of "insane townie" into accountDon't. What Remalle did last time was an incredibly stupid and rare thing to do.
Statistic shit
My guess is that the roleblocked part is lend credence to the story. It comes across as more sly if he was roleblocked before he ever found scum.Just at the top of this post you admitted that you weren't thinking straight when you didn't realize that you and Andrew are outed as scum by process of elimination. Why do you continue defending the thought that whether or not Tiruin was roleblocked changes something?
So I guess it's come down to Tiruin, or me. The question is, do you believe someone who has logic and probability on his side, or someone who is telling a tall tale?And this is the final nail in your coffin. Logic doesn't figure into it, and in any case saying 'It's me or him, choose whom to vote' is an insanely scummy thing to do. So yeah, I wanted to pressure you with my vote, since I wasn't discarding the probability that Tiruin was lying, but it looks like I was right.
(http://www.w3bly.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/client-objection.jpg)Spoiler (click to show/hide)So I guess it's come down to Tiruin, or me. The question is, do you believe someone who has logic and probability on his side, or someone who is telling a tall tale?And this is the final nail in your coffin. Logic doesn't figure into it, and in any case saying 'It's me or him, choose whom to vote' is an insanely scummy thing to do. So yeah, I wanted to pressure you with my vote, since I wasn't discarding the probability that Tiruin was lying, but it looks like I was right.
1) Tiruin can either be a cop or scum right now. Townie is just impossible. 2) Him being 'conveniently' roleblocked actually doesn't change anything - he already found two townies so by process of elimination you and Andrew must be scum. That response really looks like an overreaction, Pnx.This evidence contradicts what you just said, if I'm not scum, and he's not scum, then... nobody is?
Just at the top of this post you admitted that you weren't thinking straight when you didn't realize that you and Andrew are outed as scum by process of elimination
For now I believe Tiriun claim and I will be voting Pnx unless he can convince me that Tiriun is scumThat's not actually going to happen is it?
Tiriun Did you consider roleclaiming yesterday? Why?
What's more, you immediately bandwagoned with Tiruin. Therefor, if Tiriun is scum, then it seems very probable that you two are in on it. If you aren't scum, then why are you doubling back on what you just said?
Eh, fuck it, I give up.Yes, defensive and now giving up. If you do think I'm lying, where is your proof here? I've seen nearly or no scumhunting from you at all this game.
Except I didn't say that. I said that one of you is not scum (thus one of you is scum), but not both.1) Tiruin can either be a cop or scum right now. Townie is just impossible. 2) Him being 'conveniently' roleblocked actually doesn't change anything - he already found two townies so by process of elimination you and Andrew must be scum. That response really looks like an overreaction, Pnx.This evidence contradicts what you just said, if I'm not scum, and he's not scum, then... nobody is?
What's more, you immediately bandwagoned with Tiruin. Therefor, if Tiriun is scum, then it seems very probable that you two are in on it. If you aren't scum, then why are you doubling back on what you just said?1) I didn't double back on what I said. What I said was that I didn't exclude the possibility that Tiruin was scum, thus you were town, and decided to begin with pressuring you. You cracked under pressure. Bad for you. Don't twist my words. 2) It is not a bandwagon with two people on it. 3) If someone believes someone else's claim and the second someone turns out to be scum, that doesn't mean the first someone is scum also. Yes, it is you or Tiruin right now and I see no reason whatsoever to choose him.
Dariush Why where you so quick to believe him?Because of Pnx's reaction.
My question to everybody is why did you go after Pnx and not me? Both of us are equally viable targets so what made you guys want to lynch Pnx more then Halmie?Because of his reaction.
If Tiriun is lying about being the cop then that means that Dariush is likely his scumbuddy as only he would have the skill to coach him through it properly.Scum has a non-playing IC. Stupid conclusion based on not paying attention to the facts.
Welp. I knew it was over when Tiruin fakeclaimed.Noted that scumhunting did die out early, I did not expect Pnx to react like that though. Sorry if I pushed too hard...I guess.
Nilum was a Roleblocker, Tiruin was powerless. There were no Town power roles.Wondered why no one claimed a cop too, I have read the past BMs and mostly there is always someone going against the cop. Or is it just me?
The fact that there was a Roleblocker led me to believe that Town had power roles. Nice :DYeah only because there is a role that relies on other power roles doesn't mean that those other roles in question do in fact exist.
Actually, I was shaken by Mormota and FanofGaming's vote in Day 2. Very much shaken... Fear of slipping up makes it obvious I see.While more experienced players are obviously a lot less nervous, it's good that you now know how and why pressure works.
The thought "how did they catch me?" took hold before any reasoning could come. Glad that didn't kill the game, but it seemed a better end than inactivity.