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Finally... => Forum Games and Roleplaying => Mafia => Topic started by: webadict on January 08, 2012, 05:16:59 pm

Title: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Game Over! Mafia Win!
Post by: webadict on January 08, 2012, 05:16:59 pm

Welcome to Beginner's Mafia XXX!

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Introduction

This version of the game is aimed specifically at players who are new to Mafia, or are still relatively inexperienced. Here, it's more about having fun and learning than anything else, so don't give up hope if you find yourself in a bad position!
This Beginners' Mafia will feature playing ICs. This means that two more experienced people will join in the game to help you guys out and will actually be playing in the game. They can also be scum too, so always stay suspicious!
The ICs will never lie to you about the game mechanics though, and will usually have a special IC voice to use when they want to teach you guys, since their goal will be to get you guys ready for a real Mafia game. Just because they're playing doesn't mean you can't learn!

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Gameplay and Concept

In Mafia, you are divided into two parts: 7 Town players and 2 Mafia players:

If you are Town, your goal is to lynch the Mafia. You do this by convincing others that one of the group is scum, and getting enough votes on them to lynch them.  The Town does not know who else is Town.

If you are Mafia, your goal is to kill off the Town until there is an equal number of them to you by getting them to lynch other Town or by killing them. You are given a kill each Night to kill any player in the game.  All the Mafia members know each other, and can communicate privately.

Each Day, everyone votes to lynch a player.  Vote for a player by posting their name in red.  You may change your vote at any time, remove your vote, or vote for No Lynch. Whoever has the most votes at the end of the day gets lynched, even if there is no majority. (Example: Nobody votes except for one guy, who votes Generic_Steve. Generic_Steve would get lynched). If you have a great deal of suspicion for someone, but don't want to vote for them just yet, point their name out in blue.

The Day will not end prematurely unless people vote to shorten the day. That is, there is no "hammer" in Beginner's Mafia, where X amount of votes (more than 50%) on a single person immediately ends the day with a lynch on that person. Some games do that, but not this one, and you would be explicitly informed in the rules if the hammer is active.

If there are tied votes for who gets lynched at the end of the day, the day ends in a no-lynch. (Two people vote for Generic_Steve, two people vote for Unassuming_Mary. Nobody gets lynched.) 

Each Night, you send in your actions. The cycle continues until one side wins. Days are 72 hours and nights are 24 hours. Weekends count for zero hours.

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Rules and Guidelines

• You may not PM other players other than the mod. The mafia will have a place to talk to themselves.
• Never edit your posts, even to fix typos!  If you make a mistake, just double post- it's permitted here. Violation of this rule can lead to deadly repercussions.  I recommend using the preview button every time you post.
• Never quote your role PM or any other PM sent to you by the mod.
• If you need more time to discuss, you may ask for an extension.  If more players ask for one than those who decline one, the day will be extended by 48 hours.
• There are no limit to the number of extensions allowed per day.
   
• Please don't forget about this game if you sign up! If you cannot continue playing, please ask for a replacement! I will prod you via PM if you do not post in 48 hours to remind you that this game exists!
• Note that a Mafia game usually takes a long time to finish: two weeks at least, and sometimes even longer than a month. Be ready for this.
• Upon receiving your second prod, you are forcibly replaced (Another player takes your place) or modkilled (removed from the game) for inactivity. Beware.
   
• Upon being killed, you are entitled to one "Bah!" post, but you are not allowed to post any game-related content. After your Bah post, you MUST NOT POST AGAIN unless you somehow come back to life (impossible in this setup) or replace back in (you must have been town to do this). Failure to comply with this rule can lead to a bad reputation amongst mods, and difficulty in joining other games.
• Never underestimate your importance, and always play to win!

In this setup, there are the possibility of extra roles. These roles are Cop and Doctor for Town, and Roleblocker and Godfather for Mafia.

• A Cop inspects any player at Night. They are told that player's alignment, but not their role.
• A Doctor may protect any player at Night. This stops that player from being killed.
• A Roleblocker stops an extra role from using an action. This stops Doctors and Cops but does nothing for Townies.
• Roleblockers do not actually discover if their attempts were successful or not; that would be too powerful because the roleblocker would know they found a town power role. It isn't an investigative role (the same goes for the Doctor)! The Mafia needs to find the town power roles the old-fashioned way: analyzing behavior and voting patterns.
• Townies do not receive a message if they were blocked by a Mafia Roleblocker. Only a Cop or a Doctor will receive a message.
   
• A Godfather, if investigated by a Cop, looks just like a normal Townie.

There is a 50% chance for any of these roles to show up. It is possible to end up with no or all extra roles.

Extensions require support from at least one of the players.  You may oppose extensions as well, which cancels out an extension request.  For example, if there were five players, with two requesting and two opposing, there would be no extension.  (2-2 = 0 of 5)

Along with opposing extensions, there is also the option to Shorten/End the Day. They work differently from extensions, 33% required to pass with no objections. Shortening the Day ends the Day makes the day end as quickly as I can process it. Due to the nature of these requests, they also act just like Counter-Extensions.

Please bold requests/opposition to extensions, and Mod/my name if you want to ask me a question in-thread.  (IE: Mod: I have a question!)

---

Attendance Sheet

Players:

• Andrew425
• Phantom of The Library
• Tiruin
• ansontan2000
• zombie urist
• Chaos Armor
• stormtemplar

ICs:

• Jim Groovester
• Dariush
• Non-playing Mafia IC: Toaster

Player Replacement Queue:

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Frequently Asked Questions

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

• Oh my god this game seems fun. But wait, what are the rules?
  This (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=39338.0) is a good Mafia tutorial, brought to you by the wise JoshuaFH. Heed his words. It isn't included here because it's rather too long for that.
• People are accusing me of being scum! I'm about to get lynched! What do I do?
  The first and most important order of business is not to give up.
  One, two votes isn't much. Even if someone's got a bandwagon on you and people are writing walls of accusations, do not lose hope. You can still turn this around, no matter how bleak it appears. Fight them with your own arguments, and search for people you may think are scum, and try to turn the votes against them. About the worst thing you can do is give up, whether you are town or scum; you are harming the town by making it lose another member, distracting them from hunts for the true scum, and worsening your own game as well.
  The other players have nothing against you: it's just how the game goes. Even if you foul it up and people yell at you for it, once the game is over we're all friends.
  There are still people who give up, saying things like "You'll all be sorry when you find out I'm just town afterwards!" and "I'm not even going to try, there no way to stop this". Don't be that guy. Not only is it rather selfish, it will simply deepen your grave. You have to get out of it with real, meat-laden arguments, and these empty threats and remarks will only make you appear more scummy.
• Do I have to post so much? I can't be bothered.
  Yes, you do. You have to be an active player to scumhunt effectively, and with a lurking playerbase you might as well just hand it to the scum. There is always something to say; even if someone said what you wanted to, say it anyways in your own words. Always ask questions, always observe.
  This is a very demanding game. If you don't have enough time, then perhaps you should look elsewhere.
• How do I even tell if someone's scum anyways?
  This is, in fact, a difficult question. The game involves a lot of observation, and often it's more about intuition.
  You can often tell with the help of the List of Common Scumtells, provided below, but don't make the mistake of overusing it. Not every accusal against you is an OMGUS, and not all attempts at logic are WIFOM.  If in doubt, always remember Sturgeon's Law: 90% of everything is crap. Don't take anything for granted.
• What's all this wine stuff that players keep talking about? Does Mafia cause alcoholism?
  They are likely referring to the concept of WIFOM. It's a name for the kind of circular reasoning that you'd find when scrutinising scum motives, and is described in the CEAs (Commonly Encountered Abbreviations) and Other Terminology Commonly Found in Bay12 Mafia below. It goes like this:
  
  A: Why didn't our most active player get killed? It would be the scum's goal to kill the most active players to remove accusal, wouldn't it? The only conclusion is that [active player] is scum!
  
  B: Or is it? What if the scum wants to keep the most active player to draw suspicion on him? The scum could then head the attack on this player, thus pushing themselves into a position of trust amongst the town! I've got my eye on you, A!
  
  A: No, that isn't right! Clearly, they would stay in the background, and the people who go for the bait like me would be attacked by the scum, thus making themselves appear insightful! B, how dare you do this to me!
  
  B: Or perhaps the scum would be someone voting for a person that isn't the subject of a bandwagon, thus appearing both inconspicuous and independent! [lurker], you are scum!
  
  As you can see here, both A and B are making wild speculations on the motives of the scum. Their votes and eyes are all over the place, and nothing is really getting done. It distracts from real scumhunting, which is seeing people play and making observations from that, not speculating on how people would or would not play.

---

Resources
Our own Bay12 Mafia tutorial (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=39338.0)
The Notable Games archive. Read a famous game from start to finish! Learn some Mafia history. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=64229.0)
The Mafiascum wiki. Lots of theory, terminology, and game analysis. (http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page)
An Interactive Flash tutorial by one of the Mafiascum.net people. Helpful visualization! (http://cataldo.freeshell.org/mafia/mafiascum04.swf)

Spoiler: Dakarian's Scumhunting Bible, reposted here for your convenience (click to show/hide)

A VERY rough sketch of how a scumhunt is done (to help those who aren't sure now).
Step 1: When you have no suspicions on anyone, pick someone at random (I MEAN random.. some use Random.org for this!), take a glance as their past posts, and talk to them, usually with a vote.  The goal is not to kill but to learn more about them.  The vote is a "Pressure Vote", simply used to make sure they don't ignore you.

Step 2: When someone feels 'off' to you: perhaps you disliked their answer, or maybe they scare you, or confuse you with their text.  Perhaps they look fine but your feelings or your gut says something is wrong. Perhaps you see them do one scumtell.  Don't ignore it: make them your target.  Attack them.  Tell them what bothers you about them.  Push them, harass them.  Tell them how scummy they are.  Ask them every question in the book.. and I mean EVERYTHING:

Litia: "You bother me.  Vote Dakarian!"

Dak: Meh.  Why?

Litia: "Because you bother me.  Why are you pushing me off as if it doesn't matter?"

Dak: "What? No, you just have nothing on me."

Litia: "You're voting for Vector.  why?"

Dak: "He looked scummy.."

Litia: "Vagueness is a scumtell!  "Scummy.. how is he scummy!"

Dak: "He just is.. you don't have a reason to go after me either."

Litia: "OMGUSing now Mr.Scum?  Being defensive?  You also didn't answer my question!"


Note, this is Step 2: Litia doesn't feel like she knows Dakarian is scum.. just had a 'feeling'.  She has no hard evidence, nothing real.  The questions are to add pressure.. make Dakarian crack and panic.  If you did it right, they WILL town or scum.  WHEN they do, you will be able to see more of their true self.  From there, decide if you can find them as scum for truth.  If you don't: pull out and go to your next suspect: if no one else is there, go back to Step 1.

If you do believe they are scum after that, Step 3:


Step 3: When you believe someone is scum, gather evidence.  Find every scum tell, every sign of their true motives.  Pull more from them.  DON'T LET GO!  Even if the town ignores you or even votes for you because of it, DO IT ANYWAY!  Push, push, PUSH, ***PUSH*** until you have solid proof of what they are.

If you can't find enough to prove them and run out of things to say, check one more time to see if you still feel he's scum, then pull back, look at others (Step 2) but be ready to go back to them at any time.  If your convinced and ready to kill them, Step 4

Step 4: Final step.  It's time to convince the town.  Show what you have.  Push the target so they show more scumminess.  Attack, but do it only to demonstrate to the town what you KNOW is true.  You aren't trying to argue with the mafia anymore.. you are trying to show the town why you are right and Mr.Mafia MUST be lynched.  If you are at this point, only 3 things can happen:

1.  The scum is lynched.
2. You are given so much information that you become CONVINCED that the target is town. (no less than CONVINCED.. doubt, maybe, 'perhaps' won't due)
3. You are dead.



That's how a basic scumhunt is done.  One last note on doubt:

Doubt is something that's ok to have but UGLY to show.  If you doubt or have second thoughts, DON'T DISPLAY IT.  If you think "He looks passive but I don't know..."  you SAY "You scum!  Stop being passive!!!"  If you think "He may have a good reason to attack guy really." say "Give me your reasons and stop being vague."

Doubt is something for yourself.  When you have doubt, go back and see if your original ideas still hold up.  If they do or if you find yourself saying "I'm not sure" then go back to the attack until you are sure.  This ain't the USA: we play by Guilty until Proven Innocent here.  Unless you can get yourself to believe they may be honest, keep the attack.

So doubt is ok to have if used right.. but the town does NOT need to hear it.  If you doubt, accuse anyway as if you know.  If you wonder, accuse as if you know it.  If you know the answer, ASK ANYWAY and let THEM answer.  Make them convince you they are town: don't do the job for them.


And that's scumhunting in a nutshell.  Everyone, try to figure out what Step you are on and work accordingly.  Note that you should be almost done Step 1 by the end of Day 1 (though some may be higher by then).  If you aren't, keep random voting and consider an Extension.

If you don't know WHAT you are.. you're in Step 1.  Get to random voting.

Last note: 'Not voting' should only be done when you are doing a quick look over everyone's past.  Otherwise, your vote and your attention should always be on SOMEONE, even if it is at random.

It's best for a lynch to be for a reason reason.. but it's better for someone to be lynched randomly than for no lynch to occur at all.

Spoiler: CEAs (Commonly Encountered Abbreviations) and Other Terminology Commonly Found in Bay12 Mafia (click to show/hide)

Alignment - Who you share a victory condition with. Town-aligned, Scum-aligned, or third party alignments.

Bandwagon - Multiple votes on a single person. Can be justified, or unjustified. Unjustified bandwagons are scummy. Joining bandwagons blindly or without reason is also scummy.

BM - Beginner's Mafia (Or, Bastard Mod, a Mafia game with a purposefully unreliable moderator, or misleading information)

Bus - (noun: the bus ; verb: bussing, throwing him/her under the bus) When a mafia member attacks another one in order to make themselves look like a loyal townie when his or her scumpartner gets lynched.

Cult - A group of players that share a win condition, know each other, and can communicate freely. They are generally a second type of scum, although rarely they can be town-aligned. Instead of a kill, they can recruit players into the cult. There is generally a cult leader, who is in charge of recruiting.

FoS - Finger of Suspicion, writing someone's name in blue signifies a great deal of suspicion. It's kind of like a fake-vote, or the threat of a vote. Good for getting attention.

FTD - Failure to Deliver, also known as Toaster's #1 Scumtell. The act of promising to post more information at a later time, and then failing to do so. A very difficult action to justify as town, because it means you are either lazy or lying, it is therefore seen as a pretty solid scumtell.

IC - Inexperienced Challenged, players who are too experienced to justify playing in a Beginner's Mafia, and act as mentors/guides for the Town or the Scum.

Lurking - Purposefully not posting, so that you have few or no posts that can be analyzed. Generally a good strategy for scum. However, has the danger of earning you prods, getting modkilled, or found out via Zathras' Lurkertracker. Lurking is different than simply being away or unavailable. A good way to tell if someone is lurking is to check their profile's last active time, and compare it to their last post.

LYLO - Lynch or Lose, a situation where Town only outnumbers Scum by a single person (e.g. 3 town vs. 2 scum). During LYLO, Town MUST lynch Scum or instantly lose.

Masons - A group of town-aligned players who know each other to be town-aligned. They can communicate with each other freely.

MYLO - Mislynch and Lose, a situation where Town outnumbers Scum by two people (4 town vs. 2 scum). During MYLO, if Town lynches Town, Scum will win after night-killing town, making it 2 town vs. 2 scum, which is an instant scum win.

NL - No Lynch, to choose to end the day without lynching anyone and see if any information is revealed in the night.

OMGUS - Oh My God U Suck, a vote on someone else simply because they voted or attacked you

PFP - Posting From Phone (or Profession), throwing up a short post to prove you aren't lurking, when you are too busy at the time to make a more complete post.

PL - Policy Lynch, lynching someone for reasons other than scumminess. Variants are Lynch All Lurkers, Lynch All Liars, etc. Also see: Org.

PPE - Pre-Post Edit, typically done when you go to either Preview or Post and notice that someone else has posted before you. PPE is shorthand for acknowledging the "Warning - You may wish to review your post" message.

RIA - Refuge in Audacity, acting really crazy or really scummy to make people think that you couldn't possibly be scum because of how crazy you are. This never works. Neither does sarcasm in general, really. If you want to be sarcastic, make it painfully obvious you are being sarcastic, with <sarcasm>fake sarcasm tags</sarcasm>. Even still, it's not a good idea, because Mafia is SERIOUS BUSINESS

Role - Also called Power Role, any special powers you have. Cops, doctors, roleblockers, and godfathers are examples of classic roles. Some roles are alignment-specific, some aren't, and some can be for any alignment.

Rolefishing - Any question or attempt to learn information about someone's role. Typically something done at the beginning of the game. Typically a scum move, because it is in scum's advantage to find and lynch powerful roles. Can be acceptable later in the game, or in special circumstances where it is beneficial for town to learn someone's role. The reason it is scummy is because the really powerful town roles want to stay hidden so they don't get lynched by scum, and bringing attention to them by rolefishing risks their secrecy.

RVS - Random Voting Stage, the early-early game, shortly after the game begins, where people randomly vote each other and ask each other different questions, trying to find any good reason to suspect someone.

Scum - Mafia, or someone who isn't aligned with the Town. The Informed Minority.

SK - Serial Killer, a third party role with a nightkill, and who is hostile to everyone.

Survivor - a third party role whose win condition requires that they be alive at the end of the game. Normal players can die and still win as long as their team as a whole wins, but a survivor must actually be alive at the end.

Third Party - an alignment that is independent of scum and town. Has a unique victory condition, and is typically a lone wolf type character.

Town - The anti-Scum. The uninformed majority.

Vanilla - Someone who doesn't have a power role. "Vanilla Town", "Vanilla Scum", etc.

WIFOM - Wine In Front Of Me, the circular reasoning that results from trying to determine the choices of an opponent who acted with full knowledge that his behavior would be subject to scrutiny.

Quote from: Princess Bride

"All right: where is the poison? The battle of wits has begun. It ends when you decide and we both drink, and find out who is right and who is dead."

"But it's so simple. All I have to do is divine from what I know of you. Are you the sort of man who would put the poison into his own goblet, or his enemy's?"

WoT - Wall of Text; a really really long post. Sometimes unavoidable, but generally you should try to keep them to a minimum. Sometimes scum use them to seem more active then they are.

Massclaim - When everyone starts roleclaiming, or saying they are a power role.

Spoiler: A List of Common Scumtells (click to show/hide)

(Thanks to IronyOwl for making the orig. version!)

Scumtells are things that someone does or says that imply that they're scum. Usually the reasoning is that it's bad or not productive for townies to do it, so it can be hard to distinguish signs of being scum from signs of being a noob. This is one of the reasons scum almost always win beginner's mafia games.

Note that scumtells are very very subjective; there's no simple way to distinguish a scumtell from a noobtell from being justified and/or lazy. Whether a justified, non-scummy version of a scumtell should still be called by its normal name varies from person to person. (Someone might describe their voting of someone who voted them as "not an OMGUS," other would say it's "a justified OMGUS" for instance)

In any case, common scumtells include:

Bandwagoning: Voting for whoever has the most votes or seems most likely to be lynched, despite having poor/no reasons or not wanting them lynched previously. It implies that you don't care who gets lynched, you just want someone gone, which is generally the case for scum.

OMGUSing: Short for Oh My God You Suck, by the way. Voting or otherwise applying pressure to whoever's voting you. It implies that you're really concerned about being pressured/lynched and want them to stop, which is more a scum thing. A townie would, in theory, be more open to the notion that their fellow townie is attempting to scumhunt at them, and less concerned about being found out.

Defending/Chainsawing: Defending just means what it sounds like: saying things to defend another player's actions or words. Chainsawing or chainsaw defending means attacking someone who's attacking another player in an attempt to get them to stop. The idea in both instances is that townies don't know if their fellow players are innocent or not, and hence have no real reason to defend them from legitimate persecution. Scum, on the other hand, know they're on a team and so are prone to not wanting their buddies found out or pressured.

Lurking: Not posting. Especially suspicious in the case of Active Lurking, which is trying to look active while not actually doing anything (posting frequently but with no substance, for instance). The idea in either case is that townies actually care about finding scum, and so should be doing things. Scum don't care, they just want some random guy lynched so they can kill someone at night.

Appearing Too Townie: There's no official name for this one, but being too concerned about your image; specifically avoiding things that might be seen as scumtells. The idea is that scum are very concerned about being found out, and so want to act nonscummy. Townies know they're not scum, so they're less concerned about LOOKING nonscummy and more concerned about finding scum.

Passiveness: This is when a person refuses, simply hasn't or seems reluctant to take a stance, such as lynches. Scum will be concerned about their image, and thus don't want to be seen supporting a town lynch or an attack on a town.

Backtracking: When a person changes their stance on a subject after stating it, such as supporting a lynch and after doing so claiming that they didn't do it. This is very suspicious, and is often a sign of scum wanting to retreat their position so as to be able to save their face.

Lying: Well this should be obvious, right? It happens when someone fakeclaims (says they're a cop/doc, but is just town for example), fabricates evidence and stuff like that.

Rolefishing: Trying to find powerroles (cop and doc in vanilla Mafia), often via questioning.

Quote from: Argembarger

Resigning yourself to being lynched.
Saying something like "there's no way for me to avoid being lynched so I won't bother trying"
Blackmailing the town, like "You can lynch me, but you'll be sorry when you see I was town all along!"
Voting yourself for any reason.

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If you're still confused, join anyhow and we'll teach you!

And if you have any other questions, just ask!

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Sign-Ups: 0/7, 0/2, 0/1
Post by: Toaster on January 08, 2012, 08:18:18 pm

I'll take Scum IC, with an upgrade to playing IC if the spot doesn't fill.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Sign-Ups: 0/7, 0/2, 0/1
Post by: Jim Groovester on January 08, 2012, 08:18:58 pm

Playing IC in.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Sign-Ups: 0/7, 1/2, 1/1
Post by: Phantom of The Library on January 08, 2012, 08:57:00 pm

Joining.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Sign-Ups: 0/7, 1/2, 1/1
Post by: Phantom of The Library on January 08, 2012, 09:50:46 pm

Sorry I meant
"Would like to join"
Sorry about being pretentious.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Sign-Ups: 0/7, 1/2, 1/1
Post by: Tiruin on January 08, 2012, 09:57:44 pm

I won't go inactive here so I'll just say IN!

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Sign-Ups: 0/7, 1/2, 1/1
Post by: zombie urist on January 08, 2012, 11:20:10 pm

I am in.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Sign-Ups: 0/7, 1/2, 1/1
Post by: Darvi on January 09, 2012, 12:34:37 am

Quote from: Phantom of The Library on January 08, 2012, 09:50:46 pm

Sorry I meant
"Would like to join"
Sorry about being pretentious.

This is the Mafia subforum. If you're worried about pretentiousness, you're in the wrong place, mate.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Sign-Ups: 0/7, 1/2, 1/1
Post by: Dariush on January 09, 2012, 04:06:49 am

In as IC. Let's hope I won't fuck it up like the last time... >_>

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Sign-Ups: 2/7, 2/2, 1/1
Post by: ansontan2000 on January 09, 2012, 10:54:03 am

In again, Hopefully won't be inactive (sorry)

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Sign-Ups: 2/7, 2/2, 1/1
Post by: Urist_McArathos on January 09, 2012, 11:35:54 am

Posting to watch.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Sign-Ups: 0/7, 1/2, 1/1
Post by: Toaster on January 09, 2012, 12:16:13 pm

Quote from: Darvi on January 09, 2012, 12:34:37 am

Quote from: Phantom of The Library on January 08, 2012, 09:50:46 pm

Sorry I meant
"Would like to join"
Sorry about being pretentious.

This is the Mafia subforum. If you're worried about pretentiousness, you're in the wrong place, mate.

Yeah, we're pretty casual.  We're aggressive in-game, but soft and cuddly outside it.

Usually.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Sign-Ups: 2/7, 2/2, 1/1
Post by: Darvi on January 09, 2012, 12:41:41 pm

Actually I meant that this is the place where people were most likely to be extremely pretentious and stuff.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Sign-Ups: 0/7, 1/2, 1/1
Post by: Dariush on January 09, 2012, 12:44:54 pm

Quote from: Toaster on January 09, 2012, 12:16:13 pm

Quote from: Darvi on January 09, 2012, 12:34:37 am

Quote from: Phantom of The Library on January 08, 2012, 09:50:46 pm

Sorry I meant
"Would like to join"
Sorry about being pretentious.

This is the Mafia subforum. If you're worried about pretentiousness, you're in the wrong place, mate.

Yeah, we're pretty casual.  We're aggressive in-game, but soft and cuddly outside it.

Usually.

Ya white-furred asshole.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Sign-Ups: 4/7, 2/2, 1/1
Post by: webadict on January 10, 2012, 09:25:09 am

Sign up, people!

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Sign-Ups: 4/7, 2/2, 1/1
Post by: Phantom of The Library on January 10, 2012, 06:02:44 pm

Maybe send out an advertisement into Forum Games and Roleplaying and General Discussion?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Sign-Ups: 4/7, 2/2, 1/1
Post by: Darvi on January 10, 2012, 06:17:55 pm

That's be spam which nobody likes.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Sign-Ups: 4/7, 2/2, 1/1
Post by: Phantom of The Library on January 10, 2012, 06:39:15 pm

True, know that I think about it, I was reading through the original Begginer's Mafia and someone suggested something similar and I thought that I might as well bring up the idea.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Sign-Ups: 4/7, 2/2, 1/1
Post by: Chaos Armor on January 10, 2012, 08:14:05 pm

I would like to join.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Sign-Ups: 4/7, 2/2, 1/1
Post by: lordnincompoop on January 11, 2012, 08:04:44 pm

Quote from: Phantom of The Library on January 10, 2012, 06:39:15 pm

True, know that I think about it, I was reading through the original Begginer's Mafia and someone suggested something similar and I thought that I might as well bring up the idea.

I do remember it having been tried before, and things like that generally don't succeed very much - there's a (slight) disconnect between FGRP and the Mafia board, not only because the general style of games there are rather different from the ones here (vitriol and aggressiveness are rewarded; don't take Mafia games lightly).

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Sign-Ups: 4/7, 2/2, 1/1
Post by: Darvi on January 11, 2012, 08:08:19 pm

I guess what we cando is misuse our sigs.

Mine's got too much free space anyways.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Sign-Ups: 4/7, 2/2, 1/1
Post by: stormtemplar on January 11, 2012, 10:10:09 pm

I'll play if we need more

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Sign-Ups: 4/7, 2/2, 1/1
Post by: Andrew425 on January 11, 2012, 10:40:12 pm

I'll sign up, though only if no one else wants my spot.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Sign-Ups: 4/7, 2/2, 1/1
Post by: webadict on January 12, 2012, 02:20:22 pm

I believe that we're full now. I'll send out these roles in... several hours.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Sign-Ups: 4/7, 2/2, 1/1
Post by: Dariush on January 12, 2012, 02:35:59 pm

Quote from: webadict on January 12, 2012, 02:20:22 pm

I'll send out these roles in... several hours.

I see you've been training, padawan.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Sign-Ups: 7/7, 2/2, 1/1
Post by: Phantom of The Library on January 14, 2012, 12:24:24 am

*Patiently taps foot*

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Sign-Ups: 7/7, 2/2, 1/1
Post by: webadict on January 14, 2012, 08:55:06 am

I'm on it. I'm just writing paragraph long descriptions for each person.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Sign-Ups: 7/7, 2/2, 1/1
Post by: Strategia on January 14, 2012, 12:29:59 pm

If a slot opens up, I'd like to give this a shot. Posting to reserve, just in case.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Sign-Ups: 7/7, 2/2, 1/1
Post by: klingon13524 on January 15, 2012, 01:11:21 pm

Looks like I'm too late. Add me to the replacement list I suppose.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Sign-Ups: 7/7, 2/2, 1/1
Post by: Dariush on January 15, 2012, 01:44:01 pm

Soooo... several hours on Wuba's clock is three days... and counting. Are you sure you were referring to terrestrial hours and not, say, mercurian ones?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Sign-Ups: 7/7, 2/2, 1/1
Post by: Darvi on January 15, 2012, 07:21:31 pm

He's referring to mafia hours.

And as everybody knows, time stops flowing during the weekends.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Sign-Ups: 7/7, 2/2, 1/1
Post by: Tiruin on January 15, 2012, 10:20:19 pm

To clarify, Mafia time only counts weekdays. By that, the official time is the forum time, not your local timezone right?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Sign-Ups: 7/7, 2/2, 1/1
Post by: webadict on January 16, 2012, 11:15:33 am

Quote from: Dariush on January 15, 2012, 01:44:01 pm

Soooo... several hours on Wuba's clock is three days... and counting. Are you sure you were referring to terrestrial hours and not, say, mercurian ones?

I was having a very busy weekend. I'm still having a very busy weekend. I probably won't start this particular game for another six hours, though.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Sign-Ups: 7/7, 2/2, 1/1
Post by: Phantom of The Library on January 16, 2012, 12:13:39 pm

Understandable, take your time.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Sign-Ups: 7/7, 2/2, 1/1
Post by: webadict on January 16, 2012, 10:39:23 pm

All set and ready to go. I'll be sending them out out soon.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Sign-Ups: 7/7, 2/2, 1/1
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on January 16, 2012, 10:57:14 pm

One week later...

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Sign-Ups: 7/7, 2/2, 1/1
Post by: webadict on January 16, 2012, 11:01:18 pm

Quote from: Urist Imiknorris on January 16, 2012, 10:57:14 pm

One week later...

I was making dinner! D:<

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Sign-Ups: 7/7, 2/2, 1/1
Post by: Phantom of The Library on January 16, 2012, 11:02:05 pm

Quote from: webadict on January 16, 2012, 11:01:18 pm

Quote from: Urist Imiknorris on January 16, 2012, 10:57:14 pm

One week later...

I was making dinner! D:<

For and entire week?  :)

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Sign-Ups: 7/7, 2/2, 1/1
Post by: Shakerag on January 17, 2012, 09:58:09 am

Quote from: webadict on January 16, 2012, 11:01:18 pm

Quote from: Urist Imiknorris on January 16, 2012, 10:57:14 pm

One week later...

I was making dinner! D:<

Ahh, that explains a lot.  Mephansteras must be your dinner guest.  =P

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Sign-Ups: 7/7, 2/2, 1/1
Post by: webadict on January 17, 2012, 10:19:46 am

Alright, I'll send them out now. I was merely making sure there weren't errors.

Please note that flavor is flavor, and that it has NO BEARING ON WHETHER YOU ARE SCUM OR NOT.

I was merely bored with having none.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Sign-Ups: 7/7, 2/2, 1/1
Post by: ansontan2000 on January 17, 2012, 10:24:12 am

YUS! I can finally go to sleep knowing I have something to do in the morning.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Sign-Ups: 7/7, 2/2, 1/1
Post by: Tiruin on January 17, 2012, 10:28:02 am

Nice, it even has flavor text to come along with it!  :D

Quote from: ansontan2000 on January 17, 2012, 10:24:12 am

YUS! I can finally go to sleep knowing I have something to do in the morning.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Sign-Ups: 7/7, 2/2, 1/1
Post by: webadict on January 17, 2012, 10:44:20 am

I walked into the near-deserted town half expecting to see a tumbleweed rolling through the road. A sign hung on two very unsteady poles that read Labella. Hehe, a label for Labella. Doors clattered as the sand-ladden wind pelted the town over and over again. I pulled the hat over my eyes, but it did little good. I opened the door to the building that read Inn, and, to my surprise, I found a real person standing there.

I managed to book the only room in town, which was much more elegant than one could expect from this town. It was really just a collection of miners, deperate for gold. Or at least, what was left of them. The gold had been tapped out a few weeks ago, so I hadn't expected anyone to be here at all.

Making journeys through towns like these were depressing as hell. You only got small glimpses of people's sad existances when you slept in their abandoned shanties, but they were enough for me. I got lucky with this town.

And as such, I pushed my luck further. I found the bar next door was still operating, if only because the hopeful had kept it that way. The owner must've thought they were crazy, but as long as people stayed in one place, he would, too.

I sat down on a wobbly stool and order whatever the owner could find. I looked at a man sitting next to me, his head down, one arm lying dead next to him. He then spoke with a deep and almost hollow voice.

"Do you want to here a story?"

I paused, looking at the rusted badge that was pinned to his vest. "Sure."

"You ain't from around here, then," he spoke and then laughed. "No one wants to hear the same story over and over." I opened my mouth but his words got out first. "Maybe you can solve this crime before I finish." He took a drink. "But, you don't look too smart."

I smirked. "Alright, then," I answered, but before I could say another word, his words won once more.

"Nine neat witches fed nine neat ditches. Two of them tried, two of them lied, and all of them died." I looked at him crazily as he seemed to sing the words. He had a rather stupid-looking smile sat on his face.

"I came up with that on my own. Well?" he asked. "Ready to start?"

---

That day was one of the hottest on record. The miners weren't out long when they came across a motherlode of gold. It was way, way more than they usually brought back, and it was a time of merriment. The town celebrated. As evening came, so did clouds, and then it rained all night.

When everyone awoke in the morning, they found all of the gold had been taken. Someone shouted that they had seen witches outside, and by the end of the finger-pointing, nine women had been brought forward.

---

"Witches?" I asked, interrupting. "Surely, you didn't believe that."

"I am telling the story here," he said, and I was silent. "Besides," he continued, "it's really just a catch-all term."

---

The sheriff began investigating the crime, and began questioning the witnesses. They were unreliable at best, but they were the start. He went through the nine in his mind, and he began debating which one to investigate first.

---

Vote Count
------------------------
Andrew425 -
Phantom of The Library -
Tiruin -
ansontan2000 -
zombie urist -
Chaos Armor -
stormtemplar -
Jim Groovester -
Dariush -

Not Voting - Andrew425, Phantom of The Library, Tiruin, ansontan2000, zombie urist, Chaos Armor, stormtemplar, Jim Groovester, Dariush,

Day Ends Friday 9 PM Central.

It is now Day.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Sign-Ups: 7/7, 2/2, 1/1
Post by: stormtemplar on January 17, 2012, 11:43:41 am

Okay, so how are we going to make this work? I think for starters, everyone should post their ideas of strategy. We could either lynch someone inactive under the assumption that the mafia isn't very good, randomly lynch and hope for luck or vote no lynch and wait for some evidence to pop up. Now, someone MIGHT say something incriminating on the first day, but I doubt it, so how do you guys want to play this?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 1
Post by: Jim Groovester on January 17, 2012, 12:07:34 pm

Now that the game has started and I am now responsible for teaching seven of you how to play a game, I will say the following first.

I will be a completely impartial source of advice that I will freely give at every opportunity, whether I am asked for it or I decide to give it on my own. You can trust that everything I have to say will be given in good faith, even if it comes at a personal cost to me in this game. If you do not listen to what I have to say, for any reason, you will severely hamper your ability to learn how to play the game. So, to reiterate,

Listen to what I tell you.

If you don't, then what's the point of me being here?

For those of you who don't know what to do, games usually start with the Random Vote Stage. You should pick a target randomly, vote them, and ask them a question. The sole purpose of this is to get conversation going when there would otherwise be no reason to do that. I'll start.

Chaos Armor, let's say you're the Cop. What would you look for in a target? How would you pick somebody to inspect? Now, be thorough. I want some serious thinking on your part about the subject.

Ideally you should ask game related questions in the RVS. Asking what kind of flavor of ice cream is a player's favorite does absolutely nothing to help you find scum, which is your primary goal.

And because it bears repeating: Your primary goal is to find scum. Everything you do should help you towards that goal. And I do mean everything.

If you're scum, you will obviously have a different goal: Avoid detection until the end of the game. The best way to do this is to look like you are trying to find scum.

Since many of you are going to have no idea what to do and will mangle scumhunting in just about every possible way, it does you no good to hold back. So be bold, and just do the best you can. Ask lots of questions, try to get a good feel for how the game is played. I'll be there to help you when you go wrong.

Additionally, before anybody else does anything, I will stress the importance of activity. You should be as active as possible. A good guideline is to get one good post in a day, but if you can post productively more often than that it's generally a good idea to do so. As a player, town or scum, being active and visible is very much an asset, as you're out there making yourself readable, and this is considered a town quality. While there are very good personal benefits to being active, the reverse is detrimental to the whole game. Low activity makes games hard to play or outright kills them. This is fun for absolutely no one, so make a good effort and be active.

If you played a Beginner's Game before you probably recognize this spiel, but it's good all the same.

Quote from: stormtemplar on January 17, 2012, 11:43:41 am

Okay, so how are we going to make this work? I think for starters, everyone should post their ideas of strategy. We could either lynch someone inactive under the assumption that the mafia isn't very good, randomly lynch and hope for luck or vote no lynch and wait for some evidence to pop up. Now, someone MIGHT say something incriminating on the first day, but I doubt it, so how do you guys want to play this?

You're going to play this by aggressively questioning everything you find odd or scummy. This is to get you in the habit of asking questions a lot, since that's how the game of mafia is played and won. This doesn't mean you'll have any idea what is odd or scummy, so just ask about what you think is odd or scummy and then I'll tell you whether you're right or wrong about it.

This goes for everybody.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Sign-Ups: 7/7, 2/2, 1/1
Post by: Dariush on January 17, 2012, 12:21:20 pm

Wow, this game started and it's not even February. Who could have guessed.

Quote from: stormtemplar on January 17, 2012, 11:43:41 am

Okay, so how are we going to make this work? I think for starters, everyone should post their ideas of strategy. We could either lynch someone inactive under the assumption that the mafia isn't very good, randomly lynch and hope for luck or vote no lynch and wait for some evidence to pop up. Now, someone MIGHT say something incriminating on the first day, but I doubt it, so how do you guys want to play this?

No, no, no. All wrong. All three proposals are horribly wrong. Lynch All Lurkers (the first variant) works very rarely and never on the first day. Random lynch is just plain stupid and is something that shouldn't be even thought about outside of the horrid fuckden that is Epicmafia. No lynch works only on MYLO and in any case there's absolutely nothing that can happen during the night (well, apart from the cop inspection) that can reasonably help town find scum. So yeah, Jim's proposal is the way to go (not to mention standard procedure).

Tiruin, whom from the present (apart from the ICs) would you prefer as your scumbuddy, if you were scum, and why?

Andrew, whom from the present (apart from the ICs) would you fear most as scumteam, if you were town, and why?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 1
Post by: Phantom of The Library on January 17, 2012, 12:28:16 pm

Ansontan: If you were a doctor, how would you decide on whom you would protect each night?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Sign-Ups: 7/7, 2/2, 1/1
Post by: stormtemplar on January 17, 2012, 12:53:16 pm

Quote from: Dariush on January 17, 2012, 12:21:20 pm

Wow, this game started and it's not even February. Who could have guessed.

Quote from: stormtemplar on January 17, 2012, 11:43:41 am

Okay, so how are we going to make this work? I think for starters, everyone should post their ideas of strategy. We could either lynch someone inactive under the assumption that the mafia isn't very good, randomly lynch and hope for luck or vote no lynch and wait for some evidence to pop up. Now, someone MIGHT say something incriminating on the first day, but I doubt it, so how do you guys want to play this?

No, no, no. All wrong. All three proposals are horribly wrong. Lynch All Lurkers (the first variant) works very rarely and never on the first day. Random lynch is just plain stupid and is something that shouldn't be even thought about outside of the horrid fuckden that is Epicmafia. No lynch works only on MYLO and in any case there's absolutely nothing that can happen during the night (well, apart from the cop inspection) that can reasonably help town find scum. So yeah, Jim's proposal is the way to go (not to mention standard procedure).

Tiruin, whom from the present (apart from the ICs) would you prefer as your scumbuddy, if you were scum, and why?

Andrew, whom from the present (apart from the ICs) would you fear most as scumteam, if you were town, and why?

Huh, I guess I play mafia with very noob people, because lynch lurkers was standard first day procedure.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 1
Post by: Toaster on January 17, 2012, 01:19:40 pm

Let's go team scum!  Steal that gold from those suckers!


Have fun everyone!

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 1
Post by: Andrew425 on January 17, 2012, 02:00:47 pm

Quote

Andrew, whom from the present (apart from the ICs) would you fear most as scumteam, if you were town, and why?

Tiruin, he hoodwinked me pretty bad last game.

Phantom of The Library

I haven't seen you before, what is your plan on winning the game?

stormtemplar
You are the cop, do you invesitage lurkers or active people?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 1
Post by: stormtemplar on January 17, 2012, 02:05:31 pm

Quote from: Andrew425 on January 17, 2012, 02:00:47 pm

Quote

Andrew, whom from the present (apart from the ICs) would you fear most as scumteam, if you were town, and why?

Tiruin, he hoodwinked me pretty bad last game.

Phantom of The Library

I haven't seen you before, what is your plan on winning the game?

stormtemplar
You are the cop, do you invesitage lurkers or active people?

Depends, if someone said something suspicious or much of the suspicion was on an active player, I'd investigate him, otherwise I'd stick with inactives.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 1
Post by: Reverie on January 17, 2012, 02:37:47 pm

Webadict, may I be added to the replacement queue? I ask this tentatively because I am in Spain at the moment, and my availability depends on the chance that I fly home within the next few days.

EDIT: And even if it is not immediate, I can still poke in daily at about this time, under good circumstances. Sorry for editing, by the way. (I am not playing, so it is sort of a grey area.)

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 1
Post by: webadict on January 17, 2012, 02:46:47 pm

Quote from: Flandre on January 17, 2012, 02:37:47 pm

Webadict, may I be added to the replacement queue? I ask this tentatively because I am in Spain at the moment, and my availability depends on the chance that I fly home within the next few days.

But... nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 1
Post by: lordnincompoop on January 17, 2012, 03:40:24 pm

Quote from: Flandre on January 17, 2012, 02:37:47 pm

EDIT: And even if it is not immediate, I can still poke in daily at about this time, under good circumstances. Sorry for editing, by the way. (I am not playing, so it is sort of a grey area.)

Thus far I have recorded a grand total of zero fucks given about a non-player editing posts.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 1
Post by: Reverie on January 17, 2012, 04:12:19 pm

Quote from: lordnincompoop on January 17, 2012, 03:40:24 pm

Thus far I have recorded a grand total of zero fucks given about a non-player editing posts.

Well, it felt rebellious when I did it.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Sign-Ups: 7/7, 2/2, 1/1
Post by: Jim Groovester on January 17, 2012, 04:57:06 pm

Quote from: stormtemplar on January 17, 2012, 12:53:16 pm

Huh, I guess I play mafia with very noob people, because lynch lurkers was standard first day procedure.

So I take it you have mafia experience.

How extensive is it?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Sign-Ups: 7/7, 2/2, 1/1
Post by: stormtemplar on January 17, 2012, 05:23:38 pm

Quote from: Jim Groovester on January 17, 2012, 04:57:06 pm

Quote from: stormtemplar on January 17, 2012, 12:53:16 pm

Huh, I guess I play mafia with very noob people, because lynch lurkers was standard first day procedure.

So I take it you have mafia experience.

How extensive is it?

Minimal. I played part of one small game and read a few others. I understand the basics, but very little of the finer points.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 1
Post by: Phantom of The Library on January 17, 2012, 06:54:33 pm

Quote from: Andrew425 on January 17, 2012, 02:00:47 pm

Quote

Andrew, whom from the present (apart from the ICs) would you fear most as scumteam, if you were town, and why?[/qu :'(in, he hoodwinked me pretty bad last game.

Phantom of The Library

I haven't seen you before, what is your plan on winning the game?

I plan on deducing who is scum and then helping lynch them.

Andrew45 why so interested in my current strategy?, rather than a hypothetical one?  That seems a little scummy to me. 

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 1
Post by: stormtemplar on January 17, 2012, 08:10:05 pm

Question, Why is everyone putting people in red? Isn't that voting to lynch someone? Why would you do that now? I know we're supposed to be aggressive, but if I voted for someone who was already voted for, couldn't the two mafia potentially vote for him and lynch a townie?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 1
Post by: webadict on January 17, 2012, 08:12:45 pm

Quote from: stormtemplar on January 17, 2012, 08:10:05 pm

Question, Why is everyone putting people in red? Isn't that voting to lynch someone? Why would you do that now? I know we're supposed to be aggressive, but if I voted for someone who was already voted for, couldn't the two mafia potentially vote for him and lynch a townie?

In this particular game, no, as Beginner's Mafia does not have hammers. Also, it would reveal the identity of the scum to do this, so it's not usually a good idea unless they can win immediately afterward.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 1
Post by: Jim Groovester on January 17, 2012, 08:21:12 pm

Quote from: Phantom of The Library on January 17, 2012, 06:54:33 pm

I plan on deducing who is scum and then helping lynch them.

How are you going to do that?

Quote from: Phantom of The Library on January 17, 2012, 06:54:33 pm

Andrew45 why so interested in my current strategy?, rather than a hypothetical one?  That seems a little scummy to me. 

How is it scummy? If you're going to say someone is scummy then you need to explain your reasons for thinking this way.

You always need reasons. Don't neglect them.

Quote from: stormtemplar on January 17, 2012, 08:10:05 pm

Question, Why is everyone putting people in red? Isn't that voting to lynch someone? Why would you do that now? I know we're supposed to be aggressive, but if I voted for someone who was already voted for, couldn't the two mafia potentially vote for him and lynch a townie?

It's the Random Vote Stage. When using votes there's more pressure to answer the question if a vote is used than not. It's not actually a vote for a lynch.

The day ends in several days, so there's lots of time for people to change their votes to the targets they actually do want to lynch once the RVS ends.

Quote from: stormtemplar on January 17, 2012, 08:10:05 pm

couldn't the two mafia potentially vote for him and lynch a townie?

Not if they didn't want to get instantly caught. Scum are better served making moves that don't reveal themselves than they are just knocking off any random townie. It would be horribly stupid to make a move like that, especially on Day 1.

Ninja'd by WUBA.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 1
Post by: stormtemplar on January 17, 2012, 08:54:14 pm

Quote from: Phantom of The Library on January 17, 2012, 06:54:33 pm

Quote from: Andrew425 on January 17, 2012, 02:00:47 pm

Quote

Andrew, whom from the present (apart from the ICs) would you fear most as scumteam, if you were town, and why?[/qu :'(in, he hoodwinked me pretty bad last game.

Phantom of The Library

I haven't seen you before, what is your plan on winning the game?

I plan on deducing who is scum and then helping lynch them.

Andrew45 why so interested in my current strategy?, rather than a hypothetical one?  That seems a little scummy to me.

Phantom  why so unwilling to go into detail? First you give a stupidly general strategy and then accuse someone of being scummy when they call you on it and ask for more info. 

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 1
Post by: Chaos Armor on January 17, 2012, 08:58:28 pm

So Phantom of the Library what do you think about the gold?

Stormtemplar what do you think about the gold?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 1
Post by: stormtemplar on January 17, 2012, 09:03:53 pm

Quote from: Chaos Armor on January 17, 2012, 08:58:28 pm

So Phantom of the Library what do you think about the gold?

Stormtemplar what do you think about the gold?

What do you mean? I don't really understand the question. Could you provide a bit more detail?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 1
Post by: Chaos Armor on January 17, 2012, 09:10:40 pm

About the gold being stolen in the night after the miners discovered it.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 1
Post by: Urist_McArathos on January 17, 2012, 09:11:26 pm

Quote from: Chaos Armor on January 17, 2012, 08:58:28 pm

So Phantom of the Library what do you think about the gold?

Stormtemplar what do you think about the gold?

Quote from: webadict on January 17, 2012, 10:19:46 am

Please note that flavor is flavor, and that it has NO BEARING ON WHETHER YOU ARE SCUM OR NOT.

I was merely bored with having none.

Just pointing out that we don't play RP-style Mafia unless the mod specifically makes the game that way.  The gold and any relevant flavor details, as Webadict mentioned, are just there so you have something fun to read.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 1
Post by: Chaos Armor on January 17, 2012, 09:14:49 pm

Ah, I thought it said that in the rules... sorry.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 1
Post by: Jim Groovester on January 17, 2012, 09:22:34 pm

Chaos Armor, I asked you a question:

Quote from: Jim Groovester on January 17, 2012, 12:07:34 pm

Chaos Armor, let's say you're the Cop. What would you look for in a target? How would you pick somebody to inspect? Now, be thorough. I want some serious thinking on your part about the subject.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 1
Post by: Tiruin on January 17, 2012, 10:28:12 pm

Wow, this went off to a good start. Beautiful morning it is.

Alright:

Quote from: Page 4 questions

Quote from: Dariush on January 17, 2012, 12:21:20 pm

Tiruin, whom from the present (apart from the ICs) would you prefer as your scumbuddy, if you were scum, and why?

> To be truthful, I'm not sure exactly. I don't know the play styles of anyone as I'm a newbie to Mafia. Though, to give a concrete answer, I'd pick Andrew425: as he has some experience being both town and scum, as far as I read.

Quote from: Page 5 questions

No questions?

Phantom of the Library: Let's say that you've been accused of being found out as scum by the cop; and people begin to pile their votes on you without any tangible proof. How would you generally defend yourself?
Andrew425: If a fakeclaim was made before LYLO (like the doctor), and you were the same role as the one claimed, would you respond back by claiming yourself or look over the past pages of posts and find the scuminess of it without revealing your role.
ansontan2000: Let's say you are the cop, and were accused primarily of being scum due to lurking, how would you respond?
Dariush: Let's say it's the third day with town deaths all the way and you had a vote on someone really scummy at the time. If someone fakeclaimed as Mafia, would you find that confusing in such a way as to draw attention from your main target?
stormtemplar: What do you do when the votes are counted against you and if you had a powerrole, in general though, would you make a truthful claim and note the facts to support your claim?.
Jim: Let's say you are the doctor; someone claimed the cop in Day 2 but the his/her attitude seemed very scummy compared to everyone else (no lurkers, all active). Would you protect him that day from a NK?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 1
Post by: stormtemplar on January 17, 2012, 10:39:42 pm

@Tiruin
I would attempt to draw attention away from myself the normal way, try to refute the charges ect. But if placed in a situation where I felt I had no choice, yes I would reveal. The chance of convincing is worth the risk as I'd die otherwise. Also, any particular reason you voted me or did you just want to make sure I answered a question or two?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 1
Post by: Tiruin on January 17, 2012, 10:46:17 pm

Quote from: stormtemplar on January 17, 2012, 10:39:42 pm

Also, any particular reason you voted me or did you just want to make sure I answered a question or two?

RVS stage.  :)

Unvote

Chaos Armor: Let's say you're scum. It is MYLO (Same amount of players in the BM). There was a claimed cop but his reasons are fallible as the votes are split between your scumminess and the cop's claim due to past mistakes but it's leaning on your side due to the belief that 'if he rolls out scum, the cop is telling the truth'.

How will you turn the tide?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 1
Post by: Phantom of The Library on January 17, 2012, 10:58:02 pm

Quote from: Jim Groovester on January 17, 2012, 08:21:12 pm

Quote from: Phantom of The Library on January 17, 2012, 06:54:33 pm

I plan on deducing who is scum and then helping lynch them.

How are you going to do that?

Quote from: stormtemplar on January 17, 2012, 08:54:14 pm

Quote from: Phantom of The Library on January 17, 2012, 06:54:33 pm

Quote from: Andrew425 on January 17, 2012, 02:00:47 pm

Quote

Andrew, whom from the present (apart from the ICs) would you fear most as scumteam, if you were town, and why?[/qu :'(in, he hoodwinked me pretty bad last game.

Phantom of The Library

I haven't seen you before, what is your plan on winning the game?

I plan on deducing who is scum and then helping lynch them.

Andrew45 why so interested in my current strategy?, rather than a hypothetical one?  That seems a little scummy to me.

Phantom  why so unwilling to go into detail? First you give a stupidly general strategy and then accuse someone of being scummy when they call you on it and ask for more info. 

First of all I was vague on my strategy simply because at the moment I had no terribly specific strategy yet.  This is my first time playing mafia and I generally take a little bit of time in games of this sort to formulate a strategy, rather than create one too early and have to heavily revise it or make stupid mistakes because of. 

Second, he never called me out for being vague.  I felt that his asking a question relating to the game at hand was a little bit too similar to role-fishing for comfort.  You seem to be a little too eager to attack someone immediately on a false premises, namely the "fact" that Andrew called me out and that my accusing him was response to such.  He has not even posted since I responded, and my FOS was placed in the same post as my response to his question, therefore he cannot have "called me out" if I had accused Jim of being scummy on the other hand it would be a different story.

Thirdly, on my strategy: I am going to be on the watch for any obvious scum-tells, such as the one that stormtemplar is exhibiting right now by accusing me on false premises, and try to pressure who I see as suspicious.  Really beyond that I haven't formed much of a strategy, because I haven't played the game enough to form a good one.

Quote from: Jim Groovester on January 17, 2012, 08:21:12 pm

Quote from: Phantom of The Library on January 17, 2012, 06:54:33 pm

Andrew45 why so interested in my current strategy?, rather than a hypothetical one?  That seems a little scummy to me. 

How is it scummy? If you're going to say someone is scummy then you need to explain your reasons for thinking this way.

You always need reasons. Don't neglect them.

The fact that he was requesting information about my actual strategy, rather than giving me a hypothetical situation seemed a bit too much like role-fishing and thus a little suspicious, obviously not enough to warrant an actual vote but enough to warrant a FOS.

PPE:

Quote from: Tiruin on January 17, 2012, 10:28:12 pm

Phantom of the Library: Let's say that you've been accused of being found out as scum by the cop; and people begin to pile their votes on you without any tangible proof. How would you generally defend yourself?

I would present the information and logical arguments that proved otherwise and attempt to draw attention to the cop, since he would obviously be scum if he is falsely accusing me, with more attention being paid to keeping myself alive, since if I am lynched the cop will be revealed as scum anyway, unless it is a Lynch-or-Die situation in which case I would put more effort into making sure that everyone realizes the cop is scum, since if I die and he lives it would be game over.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 1
Post by: Tiruin on January 17, 2012, 11:01:47 pm

(Mod/ICs: What is meant by 9pm Central? The time the Day ends? We aren't using forum time?)

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 1
Post by: webadict on January 17, 2012, 11:24:42 pm

Quote from: Tiruin on January 17, 2012, 11:01:47 pm

(Mod/ICs: What is meant by 9pm Central? The time the Day ends? We aren't using forum time?)

Central is about 1 hour off from forum time. I just can't remember in which direction.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 1
Post by: Chaos Armor on January 17, 2012, 11:25:26 pm

Quote from: Jim Groovester on January 17, 2012, 09:22:34 pm

Chaos Armor, I asked you a question:

Quote from: Jim Groovester on January 17, 2012, 12:07:34 pm

Chaos Armor, let's say you're the Cop. What would you look for in a target? How would you pick somebody to inspect? Now, be thorough. I want some serious thinking on your part about the subject.

Very very sorry about that. I thought you weren't really asking me and I was doing something else at the moment of reading that.

I would look for anyone who never got any votes against them. I would also look for behavior patterns in people. Of course I really can't give a good answer because for one I have some trouble describing my thought processes and for two it would depend upon the situation, ie:What people are saying.

I would pick them based on what I think is the threat level.

I'm really sorry but I just can't describe what I'm trying to say and that is due in part to that it all depends on the situation to me. Also since I have never played mafia before, I need time to recognize patterns and strategies. I recognize you are trying to teach me about the different strategies but I don't think I can give a general answer since every situation is different. 
Sorry

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 1
Post by: stormtemplar on January 17, 2012, 11:36:45 pm

My apologies phantom, I misread something. I'm such a spaz. Anyway, I think you're being a bit gung-ho with the "it seems scummy" while accusing me of attacking you on false premises (Which, admittedly was mostly true). However, personally I think it's more you being new to this than actual scummy-ness, so for the moment, you're off my radar.


ansontan2000: You are a normal townie on a LYLO day. Your only suspect has claimed a pro-town power role, but his claims are a little flimsy, while your repuation is reasonably solid. Do you gamble with a fake roleclaim, trusting in your good reputation to bring him down or attempt to investigate further and undermine him normally?

zombie urist: You are mafia, and accused mostly due to inactivity. How would you deflect this accusation?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 1
Post by: Andrew425 on January 18, 2012, 12:41:58 am

Chaos Armor, your typing indicates you're nervous. Any reason in particular?

Stormtemplar, Have you ever heard of buddying?

Tiriun

Quote

Andrew425: If a fakeclaim was made before LYLO (like the doctor), and you were the same role as the one claimed, would you respond back by claiming yourself or look over the past pages of posts and find the scuminess of it without revealing your role.

I'd probably claim right away, unless I was dead sure that the guy was a stupid townie who is trying to win for the team.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 1
Post by: stormtemplar on January 18, 2012, 12:47:15 am

@andrew: I have now, but no, before now I have not heard of it. (Looked it up when you asked) Why do you ask?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 1
Post by: ansontan2000 on January 18, 2012, 04:52:59 am

Quote from: Phantom of The Library on January 17, 2012, 12:28:16 pm

Ansontan: If you were a doctor, how would you decide on whom you would protect each night?

I would see who seems least scummy, or support choose whoever is most active in scumhunting as they would most likely be town.

Quote

ansontan2000: Let's say you are the cop, and were accused primarily of being scum due to lurking, how would you respond?

I would assert myself as a cop and release investigation answers.

Quote

ansontan2000: You are a normal townie on a LYLO day. Your only suspect has claimed a pro-town power role, but his claims are a little flimsy, while your repuation is reasonably solid. Do you gamble with a fake roleclaim, trusting in your good reputation to bring him down or attempt to investigate further and undermine him normally?

Stormtemplar, You should NEVER not be careful on a LYLO day. I would investigate as much as I can into the person, and try to undermine him and try to make him crack.

Why have you asked a question that has such a definite answer about LYLO days?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 1
Post by: Tiruin on January 18, 2012, 05:47:52 am

Chaos Armor: You did answer a question, but only from the IC and not from anyone else. Nervous much, or is this your first real game?

Quote from: Tiruin on January 17, 2012, 10:46:17 pm

Chaos Armor: Let's say you're scum. It is MYLO (Same amount of players in the BM). There was a claimed cop but his reasons are fallible as the votes are split between your scumminess and the cop's claim due to past mistakes but it's leaning on your side due to the belief that 'if he rolls out scum, the cop is telling the truth'.

How will you turn the tide?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 1
Post by: Tiruin on January 18, 2012, 06:47:17 am

Quote from: stormtemplar on January 17, 2012, 11:36:45 pm

zombie urist: You are mafia, and accused mostly due to inactivity. How would you deflect this accusation?

stormtemplar: You laid a vote on him because...of inactivity? The fact that not all of us are from the same area, and are governed by timezones count here. It's early, too early to even say that he/she 'is inactive'. We have two days at most in RL to go on.

Defend yourself. You just labeled him/her a mafioso.

Easily checked by going to their profile.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 1
Post by: Tiruin on January 18, 2012, 07:16:55 am

Wait...just realized that what you said could mean two things.

Stumbled over those words there.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 1
Post by: Dariush on January 18, 2012, 07:47:36 am

Quote from: stormtemplar on January 17, 2012, 08:54:14 pm

snip

Are you intentionally fucking with the quotes?

Quote from: Chaos Armor on January 17, 2012, 08:58:28 pm

So Phantom of the Library what do you think about the gold?

Stormtemplar what do you think about the gold?

1) It is bad practice to ask the same question to different people. 2) Since this is a BM, there's a chance of about -5% of flavor being related to the gameplay in any way at all. Ninja'd by Urist A (by about 10 hours), but whatever.

Quote from: Tiruin on January 17, 2012, 10:28:12 pm

Quote from: Page 4 questions

Quote from: Page 5 questions

Not particularly game-related, but not everyone has the same amount of posts per page. Referring to pages instead of post numbers is confusing and just generally a bad idea.

Quote from: Tiruin on January 17, 2012, 10:28:12 pm

Dariush: Let's say it's the third day with town deaths all the way and you had a vote on someone really scummy at the time. If someone fakeclaimed as Mafia, would you find that confusing in such a way as to draw attention from your main target?

If anybody claimed or fakeclaimed scum, I'd lynch him on the place and do everything in my power to prevent him from ever showing his cretinous snout on this board again. Well, unless the absence of jesters is not guaranteed.

Quote from: Tiruin on January 18, 2012, 06:47:17 am

snip

Quote from: Tiruin on January 18, 2012, 07:16:55 am

Wait...just realized that what you said could mean two things.

Stumbled over those words there.

Why are you so over-eager to show scumhunting that you only stop and think after the accusation, Tiruin?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 1
Post by: Tiruin on January 18, 2012, 08:30:37 am

I've been thinking with every word I type down here actually.

By

Quote from: stormtemplar on January 17, 2012, 11:36:45 pm

zombie urist: You are mafia, and accused mostly due to inactivity. How would you deflect this accusation?

^ accusation, I took that as a real vote (not a random one), because there was no sign of any If's or any assumptions in that whole line.

By what you call eager, I don't see many questions being flung about by some of the other players and since this is the RVS (which lead me to said conclusion after thoroughly re-reading it all) I'm doing my best, or what I think is, to get leads on other players. Right now, we're getting somewhere.

You had your vote on me the whole time by the way, or does double voting for one person have any effect?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 1
Post by: stormtemplar on January 18, 2012, 09:53:44 am

Quote from: Tiruin on January 18, 2012, 06:47:17 am

Quote from: stormtemplar on January 17, 2012, 11:36:45 pm

zombie urist: You are mafia, and accused mostly due to inactivity. How would you deflect this accusation?

stormtemplar: You laid a vote on him because...of inactivity? The fact that not all of us are from the same area, and are governed by timezones count here. It's early, too early to even say that he/she 'is inactive'. We have two days at most in RL to go on.

Defend yourself. You just labeled him/her a mafioso.

Easily checked by going to their profile.

Meh, I didn't actually mean it that way, I was just poking him. Should have realized that. I misphrased my question to sound like an accusation.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 1
Post by: Phantom of The Library on January 18, 2012, 12:53:24 pm

Andrew45 Why haven't you answered my first question?

Quote from: Phantom of The Library on January 17, 2012, 06:54:33 pm

Andrew45 why so interested in my current strategy?, rather than a hypothetical one?  That seems a little scummy to me.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 1
Post by: zombie urist on January 18, 2012, 03:00:07 pm

Quote from: stormtemplar on January 17, 2012, 11:36:45 pm

zombie urist: You are mafia, and accused mostly due to inactivity. How would you deflect this accusation?

Since every person's activity is available for everyone to see, the best way to avoid this sort of thing is to simply be active. Keep in mind that inactivity isn't necessarily indicative of scumminess. However, hesitance to scumhunting is. 

Quote from: Chaos Armor on January 17, 2012, 11:25:26 pm

Very very sorry about that. I thought you weren't really asking me and I was doing something else at the moment of reading that.

I'm really sorry but I just can't describe what I'm trying to say and that is due in part to that it all depends on the situation to me. Also since I have never played mafia before, I need time to recognize patterns and strategies. I recognize you are trying to teach me about the different strategies but I don't think I can give a general answer since every situation is different. 
Sorry

Why are you being so apologetic? You said sorry three times in one response. Also, why are you so unconfident with your abilities to convey your thoughts? Are you scared of saying something you didn't mean?

Quote from: Tiruin on January 18, 2012, 08:30:37 am

I've been thinking with every word I type down here actually.

You had your vote on me the whole time by the way, or does double voting for one person have any effect?

Tiruin I don't think stormtemplar ever had his vote on you. In fact, you chose him in the RVS. And if you are really thinking with every word, then why did you do a triple post instead of taking more time and putting all that into one?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 1
Post by: Jim Groovester on January 18, 2012, 03:36:04 pm

Quote from: Tiruin on January 17, 2012, 10:28:12 pm

Jim: Let's say you are the doctor; someone claimed the cop in Day 2 but the his/her attitude seemed very scummy compared to everyone else (no lurkers, all active). Would you protect him that day from a NK?

Yes.

If he ends up getting targeted and I protect him, then I confirm him as town, as that means the scum believed his claim. If he doesn't end up getting targeted, then I can't really draw too many conclusions about that. It means he's either fakeclaiming, or he's telling the truth and the scum believed his claim, but decided to target someone else.

The risk of protecting scum is worth it to confirm the Cop, because there's nothing significant lost if the scum end up targeting somebody else.

Quote from: Phantom of The Library on January 17, 2012, 10:58:02 pm

The fact that he was requesting information about my actual strategy, rather than giving me a hypothetical situation seemed a bit too much like role-fishing and thus a little suspicious, obviously not enough to warrant an actual vote but enough to warrant a FOS.

So what?

It's not like a member of the town's plan of action is a holy secret he can't reveal, and it's not like the scum knowing what the town is doing is going to protect them from that.

E.G., in most of my games, everybody has a pretty good idea of what I'm going to do. This doesn't mean they're not scared of me, as I get nightkilled all the time.

Quote from: stormtemplar on January 17, 2012, 11:36:45 pm

My apologies phantom, I misread something. I'm such a spaz. Anyway, I think you're being a bit gung-ho with the "it seems scummy" while accusing me of attacking you on false premises (Which, admittedly was mostly true). However, personally I think it's more you being new to this than actual scummy-ness, so for the moment, you're off my radar.

So why did you attack him on false premises?

And why did you admit it?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 1
Post by: Chaos Armor on January 18, 2012, 04:28:25 pm

Quote from:  zombie urist

Quote from: Chaos Armor on January 17, 2012, 11:25:26 pm

Very very sorry about that. I thought you weren't really asking me and I was doing something else at the moment of reading that.

I'm really sorry but I just can't describe what I'm trying to say and that is due in part to that it all depends on the situation to me. Also since I have never played mafia before, I need time to recognize patterns and strategies. I recognize you are trying to teach me about the different strategies but I don't think I can give a general answer since every situation is different. 
Sorry

Why are you being so apologetic? You said sorry three times in one response. Also, why are you so unconfident with your abilities to convey your thoughts? Are you scared of saying something you didn't mean?

Why am I being so apologetic, because it is impolite for one to not anwer anothers question. As for why I'm not so confident in my abilities to convey thoughts, it's not a lack of confidence it's a lack of ability. I just have trouble conveying stuff, especially through writing because I cannot convey the emotions as well.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 1
Post by: stormtemplar on January 18, 2012, 04:47:53 pm

Quote

So why did you attack him on false premises?

And why did you admit it?

The attack was based off something I misread, when I read over it after I posted I realized I was wrong.

I admitted it because pursuing a pretty obviously wrong attack only makes me look bad.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 1
Post by: Andrew425 on January 18, 2012, 05:52:18 pm

Quote

Andrew45 why so interested in my current strategy?, rather than a hypothetical one?  That seems a little scummy to me. 

Sorry for missing this the first time around.

I'm interested in your strategy because I want to know.

I find it interesting that a simple question makes you so edgy. Any reason why that is?

Quote

@andrew: I have now, but no, before now I have not heard of it. (Looked it up when you asked) Why do you ask?

Here I will show you an example of it

Quote

However, personally I think it's more you being new to this than actual scummy-ness, so for the moment, you're off my radar.

Do you see any other cases of it in your posts?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 1
Post by: zombie urist on January 18, 2012, 07:42:42 pm

Andrew425 and stormtemplar Instead of copying and pasting what other people said into your quotes, scroll down to the post itself and press the 'insert quote' on the top right corner and delete the irrelevant parts. This makes it easier for us to see who you're responding to.

Stormtemplar you didn't acknowledge my response. Why not?

Quote from: Chaos Armor on January 18, 2012, 04:28:25 pm

Why am I being so apologetic, because it is impolite for one to not anwer anothers question. As for why I'm not so confident in my abilities to convey thoughts, it's not a lack of confidence it's a lack of ability. I just have trouble conveying stuff, especially through writing because I cannot convey the emotions as well.

Apologizing three times is a little excessive. If it's impolite to not answer other people's questions, then why haven't you responded to other people's questions. In fact, Tiruin explicitly pointed out that, up until that point, you've only answered a question from the IC.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Sign-Ups: 7/7, 2/2, 1/1
Post by: webadict on January 18, 2012, 07:43:10 pm

Vote Count
------------------------
Andrew425 -
Phantom of The Library - Andrew425,
Tiruin - Dariush, zombie urist,
ansontan2000 - Phantom of The Library,
zombie urist - stormtemplar,
Chaos Armor - Jim Groovester, Tiruin,
stormtemplar - ansontan2000,
Jim Groovester -
Dariush -

Not Voting - Chaos Armor,

Day Ends Friday 9 PM Central.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 1
Post by: stormtemplar on January 18, 2012, 07:56:17 pm

Quote

Why have you asked a question that has such a definite answer about LYLO days?

Because I'm a novice and have no idea whether my questions are any good or not and just going with it.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 1
Post by: Tiruin on January 18, 2012, 08:36:26 pm

Quote from: zombie urist on January 18, 2012, 03:00:07 pm

Tiruin I don't think stormtemplar ever had his vote on you. In fact, you chose him in the RVS. And if you are really thinking with every word, then why did you do a triple post instead of taking more time and putting all that into one?

zombie urist: I chose him in the RVS, yes, but that doesn't mean that it is permanently on him. You haven't been asking questions to anyone at all as far as I see.

The triple post, what is wrong with that I ask you? I realized something amiss, posted my thought on it, and then corrected it after re-reading it again.

Quote from: stormtemplar on January 18, 2012, 09:53:44 am

Quote from: Tiruin on January 18, 2012, 06:47:17 am

stormtemplar: You laid a vote on him because...of inactivity? The fact that not all of us are from the same area, and are governed by timezones count here. It's early, too early to even say that he/she 'is inactive'. We have two days at most in RL to go on.

Defend yourself. You just labeled him/her a mafioso.

Easily checked by going to their profile.

Meh, I didn't actually mean it that way, I was just poking him. Should have realized that. I misphrased my question to sound like an accusation.

To be frank, I'm not afraid of answering any relevant questions at all.

But I don't get the bolded part of your post above, and what relation does it have with my choice?

Nervous because of a single vote, zombie urist?

Chaos Armor: You still haven't answered my question. Again.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 1
Post by: zombie urist on January 18, 2012, 08:55:11 pm

unvote
stormtemplar Are you purposely ignoring me?

Quote from: Tiruin on January 18, 2012, 08:36:26 pm

Quote from: zombie urist on January 18, 2012, 03:00:07 pm

Tiruin I don't think stormtemplar ever had his vote on you. In fact, you chose him in the RVS. And if you are really thinking with every word, then why did you do a triple post instead of taking more time and putting all that into one?

zombie urist: I chose him in the RVS, yes, but that doesn't mean that it is permanently on him. You haven't been asking questions to anyone at all as far as I see.
The triple post, what is wrong with that I ask you? I realized something amiss, posted my thought on it, and then corrected it after re-reading it again.
Nervous because of a single vote, zombie urist?

I don't understand why you're bolding this part of my post. I'm responding to the fact that you accused him of voting on you when he hasn't. There is nothing wrong with a triple post in itself, but it makes me feel you are going for quantity rather than quality. I understand that votes get thrown around in the RVS and thus am not overly concerned with his vote on me nor your vote on him. How can you say that I'm not asking questions when you just answered one of mine?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 1
Post by: Tiruin on January 18, 2012, 09:03:04 pm

To clarify, you aren't asking questions to other people, specifically.

Quote from: zombie urist on January 18, 2012, 08:55:11 pm

I don't understand why you're bolding this part of my post. I'm responding to the fact that you accused him of voting on you when he hasn't. There is nothing wrong with a triple post in itself, but it makes me feel you are going for quantity rather than quality. I understand that votes get thrown around in the RVS and thus am not overly concerned with his vote on me nor your vote on him. How can you say that I'm not asking questions when you just answered one of mine?

He did not vote for me, and I know this. I FoS'ed him because of a mistake in understanding, which was cleared.

The bolding, because that certain part of your post caught my attention, why should you dictate how his voting would go?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 1
Post by: Chaos Armor on January 18, 2012, 09:30:23 pm

Quote from: Tiruin on January 18, 2012, 05:47:52 am

Chaos Armor: You did answer a question, but only from the IC and not from anyone else. Nervous much, or is this your first real game?

Quote from: Tiruin on January 17, 2012, 10:46:17 pm

Chaos Armor: Let's say you're scum. It is MYLO (Same amount of players in the BM). There was a claimed cop but his reasons are fallible as the votes are split between your scumminess and the cop's claim due to past mistakes but it's leaning on your side due to the belief that 'if he rolls out scum, the cop is telling the truth'.

How will you turn the tide?

Sorry about that I've been busy and keep missing it. Could you please clarify your statement as I want to make sure that what you are asking me is what you are asking me.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 1
Post by: Jim Groovester on January 18, 2012, 11:02:22 pm

Quote from: stormtemplar on January 18, 2012, 07:56:17 pm

Because I'm a novice and have no idea whether my questions are any good or not and just going with it.

So what if you're a novice.

You can explain what you were hoping to gain by asking the question instead of giving an 'I'm a novice' excuse.

Quote from: Chaos Armor on January 18, 2012, 09:30:23 pm

Sorry about that I've been busy and keep missing it. Could you please clarify your statement as I want to make sure that what you are asking me is what you are asking me.

The game's right here for you to read. You could ask him what question it was, but you could also go back through the thread and look for it yourself.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 1
Post by: Chaos Armor on January 18, 2012, 11:25:36 pm

What I meant about missing it is that I read all of the stuff then I start answering the questions then I forget to answer his.

Also I asked him to clarify the question so I know exactly what he wants.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 1
Post by: Tiruin on January 19, 2012, 12:18:13 am

Now I get what you meant zombie urist.

You misunderstood, my last sentence was directed @Dariush as he voted for me once, then did it again.

Quote from: zombie urist on January 18, 2012, 03:00:07 pm

Quote from: Tiruin on January 18, 2012, 08:30:37 am

I've been thinking with every word I type down here actually.

You had your vote on me the whole time by the way, or does double voting for one person have any effect?

Tiruin I don't think stormtemplar ever had his vote on you. In fact, you chose him in the RVS. And if you are really thinking with every word, then why did you do a triple post instead of taking more time and putting all that into one?

Also, what exactly I want, is your answer Chaos Armor.

Your answer to that question.

Your complete answer in fact.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 1
Post by: Chaos Armor on January 19, 2012, 07:09:40 am

And I want it clarified.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 1
Post by: Dariush on January 19, 2012, 07:24:37 am

Quote from: Tiruin on January 18, 2012, 08:30:37 am

You had your vote on me the whole time by the way, or does double voting for one person have any effect?

No, I just forgot whom I randomvoted at the start.

Why did you choose such an oddly specific question to ask CA? Why didn't you read his response and the request to clarify your question? Finally, why are you so focused on an RVS question?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 1
Post by: Tiruin on January 19, 2012, 08:01:58 am

To clarify,

Five players in question, if my understanding is correct. 2 scum, 3 town = MYLO. There was a cop claim earlier that day, but due to his/her 'scummy' actions the previous days, doubt arises. Other than his investigations on who is the townie, you were found to be scum.

How would you prove him wrong and what would you do the next day if you live?

@Dariush, I did read his response and request, but I'd thought I made it very clear. His response is his own, I'm not the one to dictate what exactly I want.

This is RVS.

By focused, you mean pressing it on right? He didn't answer it in the first place and he seemed to be avoiding it and only answering the IC, which he cleared up.

And oddly specific?

Quote from: Jim Groovester on January 17, 2012, 12:07:34 pm

For those of you who don't know what to do, games usually start with the Random Vote Stage. You should pick a target randomly, vote them, and ask them a question. The sole purpose of this is to get conversation going when there would otherwise be no reason to do that.

Apparently, Chaos Armor and stormtemplar, among the others, aren't initiating any questions. Only answers.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 1
Post by: Phantom of The Library on January 19, 2012, 06:06:53 pm

Quote from: Andrew425 on January 18, 2012, 05:52:18 pm

I find it interesting that a simple question makes you so edgy. Any reason why that is?

I was attempting to pressure you, as I thought that the question was a bit suspicious.  At the time I had little else to go on, so I decided to try to pressure you some.  You seem clean though so far though.

Unvote Ansontan

Chaos Armor Why have you not asked any questions?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 1
Post by: ansontan2000 on January 19, 2012, 06:12:11 pm

Stormtemplar, as Jim said, saying you're a novice is no excuse. apart for Jim and Dariush, we're ALL novices. Explain to me now what exactly you were trying to find out with that question.

And Tiruin, MYLO is 2 scum 4 town. LYLO is 2 scum 3 town/1 scum 2 town.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 1
Post by: Andrew425 on January 19, 2012, 06:39:42 pm

Quote from: Phantom of The Library on January 19, 2012, 06:06:53 pm

Quote from: Andrew425 on January 18, 2012, 05:52:18 pm

I find it interesting that a simple question makes you so edgy. Any reason why that is?

I was attempting to pressure you, as I thought that the question was a bit suspicious.  At the time I had little else to go on, so I decided to try to pressure you some.  You seem clean though so far though.

How would you tell if I was scummy or not?

Anston2000

Two people claim cop, are you more likely to believe the first one or the second one?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 1
Post by: Phantom of The Library on January 19, 2012, 09:37:20 pm

Quote from: Andrew425 on January 19, 2012, 06:39:42 pm

Quote from: Phantom of The Library on January 19, 2012, 06:06:53 pm

Quote from: Andrew425 on January 18, 2012, 05:52:18 pm

I find it interesting that a simple question makes you so edgy. Any reason why that is?

I was attempting to pressure you, as I thought that the question was a bit suspicious.  At the time I had little else to go on, so I decided to try to pressure you some.  You seem clean though so far though.

How would you tell if I was scummy or not?

Anston2000

Two people claim cop, are you more likely to believe the first one or the second one?

As I already said in an earlier post, for now: looking for common scumtells and anything that doesn't quite match up about people's actions.

How are you voting Ansontan if you already have your vote on me?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 1
Post by: Urist_McArathos on January 19, 2012, 09:42:11 pm

Quote from: Phantom of The Library on January 19, 2012, 09:37:20 pm

How are you voting Ansontan if you already have your vote on me?

You do not need to specifically unvote normally.  A new vote overrides the old one.

Exceptions exist depending on the mod, and the presence of a double-voter, etc etc, but none of these exist in Beginner's Mafia.  Here, your most recent vote is the only one that counts.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 1
Post by: Tiruin on January 19, 2012, 10:02:00 pm

Thanks for clarifying ansontan2000.

Restating my vote.

Chaos Armor and stormtemplar; you two haven't even asked any questions as of late. Don't you both want to, at the very least, get a feeling on any of us?

Being a novice is no excuse, this is my first real game in the Mafia.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 1
Post by: Chaos Armor on January 19, 2012, 10:57:11 pm

I have not had any questions to ask.

So Tiruin this is my answer to your question.

I can't really explain it as I said before, but I might try and claim to be a cop myself. Although that is a very flawed offensive counterattack.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 1
Post by: Tiruin on January 19, 2012, 11:17:42 pm

You voted me...without any question or reason.

Right.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 1
Post by: Jim Groovester on January 19, 2012, 11:31:47 pm

Quote from: Chaos Armor on January 19, 2012, 10:57:11 pm

So Tiruin this is my answer to your question.

Um.

Why?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 1
Post by: zombie urist on January 19, 2012, 11:59:15 pm

Quote from: Tiruin on January 19, 2012, 12:18:13 am

Now I get what you meant zombie urist.
You misunderstood, my last sentence was directed @Dariush as he voted for me once, then did it again.

Ok I see what happened. Still I wonder why you said that I didn't ask any questions when I clearly had.

Quote from: Tiruin on January 19, 2012, 10:02:00 pm

Being a novice is no excuse, this is my first real game in the Mafia.

What's the difference between a real game and a fake one?

Quote from: Chaos Armor on January 19, 2012, 10:57:11 pm

I have not had any questions to ask.

If you read Jim's first post, it pretty much says any questions relating to the game are fine.

Quote from: Chaos Armor on January 19, 2012, 10:57:11 pm

Although that is a very flawed offensive counterattack.

Voting him without any evidence is also a very flawed offensive counterattack. It even has a name--OMGUS.

Quote from: Phantom of The Library on January 19, 2012, 06:06:53 pm

Chaos Armor Why have you not asked any questions?

Tiruin has brought this up several times. Do you have anything original to add?

Quote from: Phantom of The Library on January 19, 2012, 09:37:20 pm

Quote from: Andrew425 on January 19, 2012, 06:39:42 pm

Two people claim cop, are you more likely to believe the first one or the second one?

As I already said in an earlier post, for now: looking for common scumtells and anything that doesn't quite match up about people's actions.

This doesn't answer his new question.

Stormtemplar where are you?

EXTENSION

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Sign-Ups: 7/7, 2/2, 1/1
Post by: webadict on January 20, 2012, 12:46:27 am

Vote Count
------------------------
Andrew425 -
Phantom of The Library -
Tiruin - Dariush, Chaos Armor,
ansontan2000 - Andrew425,
zombie urist - stormtemplar,
Chaos Armor - Jim Groovester, Tiruin,
stormtemplar - ansontan2000, zombie urist,
Jim Groovester -
Dariush -

Not Voting - Phantom of The Library,

Day Ends Friday 9 PM Central.

Extension - zombie urist,

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 1
Post by: ansontan2000 on January 20, 2012, 04:06:23 am

Anston2000
Two people claim cop, are you more likely to believe the first one or the second one?
[/quote]

You know as well as I do that I would most likely believe the one that seems least scummy and/or actually investigated me and got my role as scum/town right.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 1
Post by: Tiruin on January 20, 2012, 06:41:55 am

At least the [/quote] tag tells me you aren't voting for yourself, ansontan2000

@zombie urist: Real game - as in my first game not being a replacement. My first game I've participated in the RVS, etc.

What do you mean by a fake Mafia game?! How was that even a question?

...

Mod: If there is a tie on votes between any two players, it will result in a no lynch right? Even if it's just one-one? There can't be more than one lynch per day right?

Extend!

Quote from: Chaos Armor on January 19, 2012, 10:57:11 pm

Quote from: Tiruin on January 19, 2012, 08:01:58 am

To clarify,

Six players in question, if my understanding is correct. 2 scum, 4 town = MYLO. There was a cop claim earlier that day, but due to his/her 'scummy' actions the previous days, doubt arises. Other than his investigations on who is the townie, you were found to be scum.

How would you prove him wrong and what would you do the next day if you live?

I can't really explain it as I said before, but I might try and claim to be a cop myself. Although that is a very flawed offensive counterattack.

Quote from: Jim Groovester on January 17, 2012, 12:07:34 pm

Chaos Armor, let's say you're the Cop. What would you look for in a target? How would you pick somebody to inspect? Now, be thorough. I want some serious thinking on your part about the subject.

Quote from: Chaos Armor on January 17, 2012, 11:25:26 pm

Very very sorry about that. I thought you weren't really asking me and I was doing something else at the moment of reading that.

I would look for anyone who never got any votes against them. I would also look for behavior patterns in people. Of course I really can't give a good answer because for one I have some trouble describing my thought processes and for two it would depend upon the situation, ie:What people are saying.

I would pick them based on what I think is the threat level.

Fixed the MYLO thing by changing it to six players.

Just say what you really think Chaos Armor, so we could at least get what you mean. In the specific sense.

Give a good reason why you voted me. OMGUS.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 1
Post by: Dariush on January 20, 2012, 07:22:49 am

Quote from: Andrew425 on January 19, 2012, 06:39:42 pm

Anston2000

Two people claim cop, are you more likely to believe the first one or the second one?

Just making up shit as you go is not the way to go. You should ask questions that can at least be plausibly answered, not simply imitate activeness to make sure you aren't going to get lynched as a lurker.

Quote from: Tiruin on January 19, 2012, 08:01:58 am

I'm not the one to dictate what exactly I want.

Uh, what? Are we supposed to guess what do you want?

Quote from: Tiruin on January 19, 2012, 08:01:58 am

And oddly specific?

Quote from: Jim Groovester on January 17, 2012, 12:07:34 pm

For those of you who don't know what to do, games usually start with the Random Vote Stage. You should pick a target randomly, vote them, and ask them a question. The sole purpose of this is to get conversation going when there would otherwise be no reason to do that.

Yes, that's right. You should get a conversation going, not investigate for the other player's response to a pretty much impossible situation and then press on to demand the answer as if his aligment hangs on it.

Quote from: Tiruin on January 19, 2012, 10:02:00 pm

Chaos Armor and stormtemplar; you two haven't even asked any questions as of late. Don't you both want to, at the very least, get a feeling on any of us?

And again you put far too much weight on the RVS. In large games it's not uncommon for someone who has come in only after someone else made a scumslip or something else discussion-worthy to skip RVS entirely. That point also goes to Phantom. The goal of the game is not to ask random questions. Remember that.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 1
Post by: Chaos Armor on January 20, 2012, 07:25:20 am

Right now I can only answer why I voted you because of lack of time.

Why because you continued to ask me a question, a hypothetical one at that, even though you knew that I was going to have a very very hard time answering it.

Why did you ask me a hypothetical question?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 1
Post by: Tiruin on January 20, 2012, 08:17:26 am

Because it's RVS. I can't say that you really are scum or town as I have no current knowledge of anyone's role or alignment in this game.

Look at all the other questions out there. It's not only mine that is hypothetical.

@Dariush: Thanks for clarifying that, all of it actually. But when I said 'I'm not the one to dictate what exactly I want.' I meant by: asking them for their honest answer on what would they do in that current situation, not something based on what I need to know. Their reasoning in short.

The thing was, of all the things said from the past, they seem the most vague in their actions. I wanted to see why.

@Chaos Armor: You could request for an extend to add time. The info is on the first page.

And...why do you assume I'm asking you a hard question and that I know that I am? I don't know you, and I don't know that you have problems answering questions- unless you believe your image is at stake.

I'm not psychic by the way. Read the past posts please.

Quote from: ansontan2000 on January 20, 2012, 04:06:23 am

Quote from: ansontan2000 on January 20, 2012, 04:06:23 am

Anston2000
Two people claim cop, are you more likely to believe the first one or the second one?

You know as well as I do that I would most likely believe the one that seems least scummy and/or actually investigated me and got my role as scum/town right.

ansontan2000: A fakeclaimer could make a logical guess and then say if you were town or to a lesser extent, mafia. Why are you assuming that Andrew would know how you would act by the way?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 1
Post by: ansontan2000 on January 20, 2012, 09:03:14 am

Quote from: Tiruin on January 20, 2012, 08:17:26 am

Quote from: ansontan2000 on January 20, 2012, 04:06:23 am

Quote from: ansontan2000 on January 20, 2012, 04:06:23 am

Anston2000
Two people claim cop, are you more likely to believe the first one or the second one?

You know as well as I do that I would most likely believe the one that seems least scummy and/or actually investigated me and got my role as scum/town right.

ansontan2000: A fakeclaimer could make a logical guess and then say if you were town or to a lesser extent, mafia. Why are you assuming that Andrew would know how you would act by the way?

I have seen Andrew in a couple of Mafia games here through reading them. As he is more experienced than you and I, I thought he may be able to assume what we plan to do.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 1
Post by: zombie urist on January 20, 2012, 11:45:25 am

Quote from: Tiruin on January 20, 2012, 06:41:55 am

@zombie urist: Real game - as in my first game not being a replacement. My first game I've participated in the RVS, etc.
What do you mean by a fake Mafia game?! How was that even a question?

That's the point I'm trying to make. There's no such thing as a fake game. All mafia games are real mafia games.

Quote from: ansontan2000 on January 20, 2012, 04:06:23 am

/quote]

Why are you being so careless with your posts. A preview would have made it really obvious that something was wrong with your quotes.

Quote from: ansontan2000 on January 19, 2012, 06:12:11 pm

Stormtemplar, as Jim said, saying you're a novice is no excuse. apart for Jim and Dariush, we're ALL novices. Explain to me now what exactly you were trying to find out with that question.

You haven't really been contributing anything new to the conversation. Also, why are you being so forceful?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 1
Post by: Jim Groovester on January 20, 2012, 04:35:50 pm

Quote from: Chaos Armor on January 20, 2012, 07:25:20 am

Why because you continued to ask me a question, a hypothetical one at that, even though you knew that I was going to have a very very hard time answering it.

And how is this a good reason for a vote?

How does this make him scum?

Quote from: Chaos Armor on January 20, 2012, 07:25:20 am

Why did you ask me a hypothetical question?

People ask hypothetical questions for lack of anything better to ask.

Extend.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 1
Post by: Andrew425 on January 20, 2012, 06:12:21 pm

Quote from: Dariush on January 20, 2012, 07:22:49 am

Quote from: Andrew425 on January 19, 2012, 06:39:42 pm

Anston2000
Two people claim cop, are you more likely to believe the first one or the second one?

Just making up shit as you go is not the way to go. You should ask questions that can at least be plausibly answered, not simply imitate activeness to make sure you aren't going to get lynched as a lurker.

I think it's a valid question, why do you think it isn't?

Quote from: zombie urist on January 20, 2012, 11:45:25 am

Why are you being so careless with your posts. A preview would have made it really obvious that something was wrong with your quotes.

Why are you nitpicking?


Also, Extend

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 1
Post by: Chaos Armor on January 20, 2012, 08:03:08 pm

Tiruin if you had read my answer to Jim then you would know what my problem was. And by the way it is not just anwering questions in general, its answering questions about Mafia and its also answering questions through writing. If we could sit down right now and talk I could answer your question in full.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 1
Post by: Chaos Armor on January 20, 2012, 08:05:06 pm

Ah, sorry for the double post but I forgot:

Extend.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 1
Post by: Phantom of The Library on January 20, 2012, 10:44:45 pm

I vote for Extension as well. 

Quote from: zombie urist on January 20, 2012, 11:45:25 am

Quote from: Tiruin on January 20, 2012, 06:41:55 am

@zombie urist: Real game - as in my first game not being a replacement. My first game I've participated in the RVS, etc.
What do you mean by a fake Mafia game?! How was that even a question?

That's the point I'm trying to make. There's no such thing as a fake game. All mafia games are real mafia games.

What I think he means is that the only time he has played mafia so far was a replacement on the last day of the last BM, thus he didn't really get the full experience of playing the entire game, why are you attacking him so much for such a small harmless statement?

Quote from: zombie urist on January 20, 2012, 11:45:25 am

Quote from: ansontan2000 on January 19, 2012, 06:12:11 pm

Stormtemplar, as Jim said, saying you're a novice is no excuse. apart for Jim and Dariush, we're ALL novices. Explain to me now what exactly you were trying to find out with that question.

You haven't really been contributing anything new to the conversation. Also, why are you being so forceful?

I agree, almost the only thing you have done so far is attack me or urist.  Both on false charges.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 1
Post by: Tiruin on January 20, 2012, 11:06:09 pm

Quote from: Chaos Armor on January 20, 2012, 08:03:08 pm

Tiruin if you had read my answer to Jim then you would know what my problem was. And by the way it is not just anwering questions in general, its answering questions about Mafia and its also answering questions through writing. If we could sit down right now and talk I could answer your question in full.

Yes, conveying what you really want to say is different when it's face to face than on the net.

But remember that this is Mafia, don't be afraid of slipping up in your words, people do that often. Just...more subtly than others.

Quote

A good guideline is to get one good post in a day, but if you can post productively more often than that it's generally a good idea to do so. As a player, town or scum, being active and visible is very much an asset, as you're out there making yourself readable, and this is considered a town quality. While there are very good personal benefits to being active, the reverse is detrimental to the whole game. Low activity makes games hard to play or outright kills them. This is fun for absolutely no one, so make a good effort and be active.

You know, you could work on it in the meantime.

I'm torn between thinking that you're too concerned about your image or the fact that you're really being new here.

And yes, I did read your answer to Jim. So let's change it then to make it easier.

Why did you place a vote for me just asking you a question?

---

@Andrew425: I think Dariush got the grasp on it. Your question depends on the quality of each cop's claim, but you did not specify exactly how. It could be easily answered by the way, without specific information.

@zombie urist: Phantom explains my idea on the real game. Why did you ask that question anyway? It leads nowhere to finding scum.


Unvote ; Ansontan2000:

Quote from: ansontan2000 on January 20, 2012, 04:06:23 am

I have seen Andrew in a couple of Mafia games here through reading them. As he is more experienced than you and I, I thought he may be able to assume what we plan to do.

You do know, that people mostly can't predict another's moves unless they have a good feeling on them, and even then it could be open to fallacy.

You got any extra information there that you aren't spilling?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 1
Post by: Jim Groovester on January 21, 2012, 03:22:36 am

Quote from: Chaos Armor on January 20, 2012, 08:03:08 pm

Tiruin if you had read my answer to Jim then you would know what my problem was. And by the way it is not just anwering questions in general, its answering questions about Mafia and its also answering questions through writing. If we could sit down right now and talk I could answer your question in full.

And then I asked how you thought that made him scum and then you didn't decide to answer.

So, Chaos Armor even though I'm pretty sure I'm already voting you: how about you answer my goddamn question.

What is so offensive about the question he asked that made you crap your pants and vote for him?

Quote from: Tiruin on January 20, 2012, 11:06:09 pm

But remember that this is Mafia, don't be afraid of slipping up in your words, people do that often. Just...more subtly than others.

Actually, since this is forum mafia, you effectively have infinite time to look over each post you make to make sure what you're saying is exactly what you want to say, and also to make sure that you communicate everything clearly as well.

Advising people to be looser with their words is unwise given the medium we're dealing with.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Sign-Ups: 7/7, 2/2, 1/1
Post by: webadict on January 21, 2012, 06:15:23 am

stormtemplar has asked for a replacement. As such, he will be replaced by Strategia.

Vote Count
------------------------
Andrew425 -
Phantom of The Library -
Tiruin - Dariush, Chaos Armor,
ansontan2000 - Andrew425, Tiruin,
zombie urist - Strategia,
Chaos Armor - Jim Groovester,
Strategia - ansontan2000, zombie urist,
Jim Groovester -
Dariush -

Not Voting - Phantom of The Library,

Day Extended. Day Ends Tuesday 9 PM Central.

Quote from: Tiruin on January 20, 2012, 06:41:55 am

Mod: If there is a tie on votes between any two players, it will result in a no lynch right? Even if it's just one-one? There can't be more than one lynch per day right?

If there is a tie, I will extend the Day for 24 hours for you all to change your minds. If there is still a tie after that, then there will be a No Lynch. Because I'm nice like that.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 1
Post by: Dariush on January 21, 2012, 07:39:09 am

Quote from: Andrew425 on January 20, 2012, 06:12:21 pm

I think it's a valid question, why do you think it isn't?

Because your question goes along the lines of 'you can choose to lynch the first person to sign up or the last, whom will you choose?'. There is equal probability of cop claiming and scum counter-fakeclaiming and vice versa. There are far too many other things to consider to simplify the situation to such a question.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 1
Post by: Tiruin on January 21, 2012, 08:04:24 am

So I understand that weekends do not count?

Four happy days it is then.

Umm, I'd take it storm templar got replaced by Strategia in the vote count?

Just read the top text.

---

Strategia: Is this your first game at all in Mafia. Specifically, did you do any reading in the wiki or the FAQ?

Nevertheless: Let's say you are a Mafioso, it is LYLO and there is a claimed cop. Your scumteam has no roleblocker, and the cop has marked your buddy as mafia. His other investigations are all dead men/women. People are piling up their votes on him (Your buddy). He isn't yielding though and is giving his best at his defense, but it isn't enough. What would you do, in the day and night?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 1
Post by: Strategia on January 21, 2012, 09:48:16 am

Quote from: Tiruin on January 21, 2012, 08:04:24 am

Strategia: Is this your first game at all in Mafia. Specifically, did you do any reading in the wiki or the FAQ?

Yes, this is my first game of Mafia, I have read the new player guide and the FAQ, I did some light browsing on the wiki, and I am currently re-reading this entire thread.

Quote

Nevertheless: Let's say you are a Mafioso, it is LYLO and there is a claimed cop. Your scumteam has no roleblocker, and the cop has marked your buddy as mafia. His other investigations are all dead men/women. People are piling up their votes on him (Your buddy). He isn't yielding though and is giving his best at his defense, but it isn't enough. What would you do, in the day and night?

That depends on several factors, such as the atmosphere of the game, the behaviour of the players and any role I (or my buddy) might possess that isn't a roleblocker. I wouldn't rule out the possibility of throwing him under a bus, but only if that gives me the best shot at offing the others (e.g. people are already suspicious of another townie, especially if it's the cop being suspicious and he's paranoid). I could protect him if I'm a mafia doctor, or perhaps use a one-shot to redirect the lynch, if that's at all possible, there are just too many variables, I really couldn't say anything else.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 1
Post by: Chaos Armor on January 21, 2012, 09:55:44 am

I'm sorry Jim I wasn't quite sure what to answer. It was more of a lets see what his reaction will be.

I didn't want to triple post when I did have my answer and I ended up falling asleep.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 1
Post by: Tiruin on January 21, 2012, 10:20:45 am

Quote from: Chaos Armor on January 21, 2012, 09:55:44 am

I'm sorry Jim I wasn't quite sure what to answer. It was more of a lets see what his reaction will be.

I didn't want to triple post when I did have my answer and I ended up falling asleep.

You've been giving the same answer for the past posts, worded differently.

And I get that you voted me...to see my reaction? Ok. No reason or fact behind that.

And, your real answer is...What exactly?

@Strategia: Should've said that question in the bounds of a BM.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 1
Post by: Phantom of The Library on January 21, 2012, 10:39:31 am

Quote from: Tiruin on January 21, 2012, 10:20:45 am

Quote from: Chaos Armor on January 21, 2012, 09:55:44 am

I'm sorry Jim I wasn't quite sure what to answer. It was more of a lets see what his reaction will be.

I didn't want to triple post when I did have my answer and I ended up falling asleep.

You've been giving the same answer for the past posts, worded differently.

And I get that you voted me...to see my reaction? Ok. No reason or fact behind that.

And, your real answer is...What exactly?

@Strategia: Should've said that question in the bounds of a BM.

Agreed, just answer the question. You say you have an answer but you didn't bother to write it out.  Even a short answer would be better than what you have now.

If you were trying to get a reaction, then you would/should have used a FOS.  It more to me like an OMGUS.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 1
Post by: ansontan2000 on January 21, 2012, 10:43:07 am

I'l post in the morning, it's really damned late.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 1
Post by: Chaos Armor on January 21, 2012, 10:56:35 am

Quote from: Phantom of The Library on January 21, 2012, 10:39:31 am

Quote from: Tiruin on January 21, 2012, 10:20:45 am

Quote from: Chaos Armor on January 21, 2012, 09:55:44 am

I'm sorry Jim I wasn't quite sure what to answer. It was more of a lets see what his reaction will be.

I didn't want to triple post when I did have my answer and I ended up falling asleep.

You've been giving the same answer for the past posts, worded differently.

And I get that you voted me...to see my reaction? Ok. No reason or fact behind that.

And, your real answer is...What exactly?

@Strategia: Should've said that question in the bounds of a BM.

Agreed, just answer the question. You say you have an answer but you didn't bother to write it out.  Even a short answer would be better than what you have now.

If you were trying to get a reaction, then you would/should have used a FOS.  It more to me like an OMGUS.

unvote ; Tiruin

I have answered the question.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 1
Post by: Strategia on January 21, 2012, 12:51:40 pm

Quote from: Tiruin on January 21, 2012, 10:20:45 am

@Strategia: Should've said that question in the bounds of a BM.

Same caveats apply, it depends on the specifics of the situation.

Phantom of the Library, why are you covering for zombie urist, chainsawing people who investigate him? Protecting your scumbuddy?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 1
Post by: Phantom of The Library on January 21, 2012, 01:14:26 pm

Quote from: Strategia on January 21, 2012, 12:51:40 pm

Quote from: Tiruin on January 21, 2012, 10:20:45 am

@Strategia: Should've said that question in the bounds of a BM.

Same caveats apply, it depends on the specifics of the situation.

Phantom of the Library, why are you covering for zombie urist, chainsawing people who investigate him? Protecting your scumbuddy?

I do not believed that I have "chainsawed" anybody who I was not already suspicious of before he even posted.  Yes, I have agreed with him several times recently, but I do not recall a single time that I have "protected" him other than the time that your predecessor accused him of lurking when he had not even logged on since an hour or two before the game started, I was already suspicious of stormtemplar at that point anyway. 

I have agreed with him a lot recently, but that is because he brought up good points that I agreed with.

Besides, if I was scum then the last thing I would want to do is defend my scum-buddy, as that would make it blaringly obvious that we were working together.

What about you Strategia?  If you were scum would you protect your scum-buddy?

Quote from: Chaos Armor on January 21, 2012, 10:56:35 am

I have answered the question.

Please show me your answer, I do not see it anywhere, all I see are a bunch of apologies and dodging.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 1
Post by: Dariush on January 21, 2012, 01:34:25 pm

Quote from: Phantom of The Library on January 21, 2012, 10:39:31 am

If you were trying to get a reaction, then you would/should have used a FOS.  It more to me like an OMGUS.

Actually, it's commong practice to use pressure votes to get a reaction. People may not pay enough attention to a FoS to give a satisfying answer.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 1
Post by: Strategia on January 21, 2012, 04:36:50 pm

Quote from: Phantom of The Library on January 21, 2012, 01:14:26 pm

Yes, I have agreed with him several times recently, but I do not recall a single time that I have "protected" him other than the time that your predecessor accused him of lurking when he had not even logged on since an hour or two before the game started, I was already suspicious of stormtemplar at that point anyway. 

I see you hitting Tiruin and Stormtemplar for hitting Zombie Urist. You're also lashing out at Ansontan and Chaos Armor simultaneously. "Random Vote Stage" doesn't mean pick a random target with every post. Trying to get the townies to slip up, or just making it seem like you're doing more than just covering your buddy?

Quote

Besides, if I was scum then the last thing I would want to do is defend my scum-buddy, as that would make it blaringly obvious that we were working together.

You say that now.

Quote

What about you Strategia?  If you were scum would you protect your scum-buddy?

I haven't played enough to have an idea of what I'd do in any given situation. This is Beginner's Mafia, after all. Besides, that's an awfully quick, pointed question. Did I hit a nerve? Did you hope I'd help you deflect suspicion away from yourself?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 1
Post by: Strategia on January 21, 2012, 04:43:10 pm

Unvote for now btw. Forgot to put that in there.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 1
Post by: Phantom of The Library on January 21, 2012, 05:27:11 pm

Quote from: Strategia on January 21, 2012, 04:36:50 pm

Quote from: Phantom of The Library on January 21, 2012, 01:14:26 pm

Yes, I have agreed with him several times recently, but I do not recall a single time that I have "protected" him other than the time that your predecessor accused him of lurking when he had not even logged on since an hour or two before the game started, I was already suspicious of stormtemplar at that point anyway. 

I see you hitting Tiruin and Stormtemplar for hitting Zombie Urist. You're also lashing out at Ansontan and Chaos Armor simultaneously. "Random Vote Stage" doesn't mean pick a random target with every post. Trying to get the townies to slip up, or just making it seem like you're doing more than just covering your buddy?

For one, I have never attacked ansontan, he was my first and only vote, true, but I redacted the vote a while ago and have neither pressured nor attacked him in any way shape or form since, and other than my initial questioning I never have.  You on the other hand seem to be carrying on stormtemplar's fine tradition of making attacks on false premises.

Moreover I just defended Tiruin against zombie urist, if you could please show me all the times you claim I have "covered urist" other than the time that I defended him from stormtemplar when he was making a false claim.  In fact, overall I've defended Tiruin more than urist!  Do you have a single claim that actually holds up under scrutiny?

Ah, there is one, I have been attacking Chaos Armor, but not without reason.  Nearly half his posts have been "I didn't have the time" or "Oh, sorry I missed that."  which is at the very least suspicious, as he seems to be avoiding answering as much as possible.

Quote from: Strategia on January 21, 2012, 04:36:50 pm

Quote

What about you Strategia?  If you were scum would you protect your scum-buddy?

I haven't played enough to have an idea of what I'd do in any given situation. This is Beginner's Mafia, after all. Besides, that's an awfully quick, pointed question. Did I hit a nerve? Did you hope I'd help you deflect suspicion away from yourself?

I was simply trying to carry on the conversation and make a point.

Strategia:The fact that both you and your predecessor have made so many attacks on false premises, makes me think that you look a lot like scum.  If you aren't, then kindly explain you and your predecessor's actions to me, as I can't see any reason why someone who is town would resort to such tactics.

Once I could understand, but multiple times?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 1
Post by: Strategia on January 21, 2012, 06:07:02 pm

Quote from: Phantom of The Library on January 21, 2012, 05:27:11 pm

For one, I have never attacked ansontan, he was my first and only vote, true, but I redacted the vote a while ago and have neither pressured nor attacked him in any way shape or form since, and other than my initial questioning I never have.

I'll concede you this on the grounds of RVS. I see he can be replaced in my argument however with Andrew245, another random target of yours.

Quote

You on the other hand seem to be carrying on stormtemplar's fine tradition of making attacks on false premises.

I don't know what stormtemplar's motivations were, and my attack on you is not on false premises.

Quote

Moreover I just defended Tiruin against zombie urist, if you could please show me all the times you claim I have "covered urist" other than the time that I defended him from stormtemplar when he was making a false claim.  In fact, overall I've defended Tiruin more than urist!  Do you have a single claim that actually holds up under scrutiny?

I haven't seen you defend Tiruin once, yet I have seen you speak for zombie urist. You didn't attack stormtemplar for making the false claim, you defended his target. You threw halfhearted attacks hither and yon, even after you started going after Chaos Armor.

Quote

Strategia:The fact that both you and your predecessor have made so many attacks on false premises, makes me think that you look a lot like scum.  If you aren't, then kindly explain you and your predecessor's actions to me, as I can't see any reason why someone who is town would resort to such tactics.

Once I could understand, but multiple times?

And there's the almighty Mr. OMGUS. Like I said, I can't speak for stormtemplar, but I've only made one attack before this post. I got suspicious of you when I re-read the thread after joining, so I started pushing. It seems to be working too, you're being very defensive given that this is only my second interaction with you and I've only FoSed you so far. I can't say for sure you're not town, but you're giving me a funny feeling inside, and I'm not talking about the one where I buy you flowers and chocolate.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 1
Post by: Tiruin on January 21, 2012, 11:13:36 pm

Spoiler: To Strategia and/or Phantom (click to show/hide)

Quote from: Strategia on January 21, 2012, 06:07:02 pm

Quote from: Phantom of The Library on January 21, 2012, 05:27:11 pm

Moreover I just defended Tiruin against zombie urist, if you could please show me all the times you claim I have "covered urist" other than the time that I defended him from stormtemplar when he was making a false claim.  In fact, overall I've defended Tiruin more than urist!  Do you have a single claim that actually holds up under scrutiny?

I haven't seen you defend Tiruin once, yet I have seen you speak for zombie urist. You didn't attack stormtemplar for making the false claim, you defended his target. You threw halfhearted attacks hither and yon, even after you started going after Chaos Armor.

What I got was, the thing about the difference between fake and real Mafia games.

And to the post above, how can that be an OMGUS when you just fingered him? I thought an OMGUS was based on a vote?

Quote from: Phantom of The Library on January 20, 2012, 10:44:45 pm

Quote from: zombie urist on January 20, 2012, 11:45:25 am

Quote from: Tiruin on January 20, 2012, 06:41:55 am

@zombie urist: Real game - as in my first game not being a replacement. My first game I've participated in the RVS, etc.
What do you mean by a fake Mafia game?! How was that even a question?

That's the point I'm trying to make. There's no such thing as a fake game. All mafia games are real mafia games.

What I think he means is that the only time he has played mafia so far was a replacement on the last day of the last BM, thus he didn't really get the full experience of playing the entire game, why are you attacking him so much for such a small harmless statement?

@Chaos Armor:

Spoiler: This is for you. All of it. Including the text below. (click to show/hide)

This would have applied.

Quote from: Dariush on January 21, 2012, 01:34:25 pm

Quote from: Phantom of The Library on January 21, 2012, 10:39:31 am

Quote from: Phantom of The Library on January 21, 2012, 01:14:26 pm

Quote from: Chaos Armor on January 21, 2012, 10:56:35 am

I have answered the question.

Please show me your answer, I do not see it anywhere, all I see are a bunch of apologies and dodging.

If you were trying to get a reaction, then you would/should have used a FOS.  It more to me like an OMGUS.

Actually, it's commong practice to use pressure votes to get a reaction. People may not pay enough attention to a FoS to give a satisfying answer.

But your answer is just a repeat of what you said. No pressure behind a completely intangible vote that only carried a lynch behind it, moreso if it had no obvious reason.

Over and over again.

Nothing new there. Your answer was even a quote from others. Not in your words!

Got any extra voices there that you're relying on for info Chaos Armor?

Yeah, I'm still torn between you playing new, and the many obvious reasons above (Like your overreaction to your image, and that OMGUS). But by now I'd think you would've learned.

From what I see, Jim is trying to help you being the IC he is, and when he starts swearing then something isn't going right. That, or I read the past BMs too much.

Are you so content with everyone else doing the work for you, that you won't be bothered to even defend yourself?

You do know, that none of us can get any sort of feel on you. Other than your problems with answers.

Also:

Quote from: Jim Groovester on January 21, 2012, 03:22:36 am

Actually, since this is forum mafia, you effectively have infinite time to look over each post you make to make sure what you're saying is exactly what you want to say, and also to make sure that you communicate everything clearly as well.

We have two to three whole days in RL to hash this out. Give something reasonable.

Oh, before you say what you've said before, I'm just trying to get this whole thing straight before there is a mislynch that mostly always happens on the first day.

Anyway, back on topic.

---

Andrew425:

Quote from: Andrew425 on January 20, 2012, 06:12:21 pm

Quote from: Dariush on January 20, 2012, 07:22:49 am

Quote from: Andrew425 on January 19, 2012, 06:39:42 pm

Anston2000
Two people claim cop, are you more likely to believe the first one or the second one?

Just making up shit as you go is not the way to go. You should ask questions that can at least be plausibly answered, not simply imitate activeness to make sure you aren't going to get lynched as a lurker.

I think it's a valid question, why do you think it isn't?

Quote from: zombie urist on January 20, 2012, 11:45:25 am

Why are you being so careless with your posts. A preview would have made it really obvious that something was wrong with your quotes.

Why are you nitpicking?

Why are you asking questions that could well be reasonably answered by seeing them logically? You haven't made a post since Dariush answered you, and it seems that you aren't focusing any effort on anyone else and are just waiting on ansontan2000 to clear himself up. You seem pretty lax in your posts, in my opinion, care to explain why?

---

Mod/ICs:Didn't know that votes get carried over, do the same questions that people asked stormtemplar get directed to Strategia?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 1
Post by: Chaos Armor on January 22, 2012, 12:02:48 am

I don't know how many times I'm going to have to say it... I have answered your question. Unless you mean another question.

What do you mean my answer was in quotes?

Quote from: Chaos Armor on January 21, 2012, 09:55:44 am

I'm sorry Jim I wasn't quite sure what to answer. It was more of a lets see what his reaction will be.
I didn't want to triple post when I did have my answer and I ended up falling asleep.

Answered question.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 1
Post by: Tiruin on January 22, 2012, 12:04:43 am

Ok then, why aren't you adding anything to the general conversation by the way?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 1
Post by: Jim Groovester on January 22, 2012, 12:10:07 am

Quote from: Chaos Armor on January 21, 2012, 09:55:44 am

I'm sorry Jim I wasn't quite sure what to answer. It was more of a lets see what his reaction will be.

There's something that you'll need to learn very quickly, and that's it you need to answer every single question directed at you, without exception. And you better do a damn good job of answering them, or you'll end up lynched at the end of the day.

Player's don't take it too kindly when they get ignored, and they will get more and more aggressive to get the answers they want. And the thing is, that's optimal play. There's no avoiding it, because good players will not give up until they get an answer they like or they see you dead.

So when I ask you a question about why you voted someone, I want a damn fucking good answer.

Now, I'm not some needlessly harsh taskmaster here to drive you into the ground and beat you to a bloody pulp for every mistake you make. I am very forgiving to Beginners. So I'll ask you a different question instead:

Your answer here, that you were testing his reaction, is contradictory to your answer here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=98714.msg2918208#msg2918208), where you state that you voted him because he asked you a hypothetical question you couldn't answer. Why the two stories? It's not because you're scum and you don't have any idea what you're doing, is it? (As a general note, if you keep with the game, you're going to get asked lots and lots and lots of loaded questions, especially if somebody suspects you, which I do. In most cases, they're not interested in getting an answer to their loaded question. Answer the substance of the inquiry with substance.)

Quote from: Strategia on January 21, 2012, 12:51:40 pm

Phantom of the Library, why are you covering for zombie urist, chainsawing people who investigate him? Protecting your scumbuddy?

You have a few posts you could link to that make you think this way?

Quote from: Phantom of The Library on January 21, 2012, 01:14:26 pm

Besides, if I was scum then the last thing I would want to do is defend my scum-buddy, as that would make it blaringly obvious that we were working together.

This is WIFOM. You should avoid it. It's not really something you can expect scum universally wouldn't do, so it doesn't make a very good defense.

Quote from: Tiruin on January 21, 2012, 11:13:36 pm

Mod/ICs:Didn't know that votes get carried over, do the same questions that people asked stormtemplar get directed to Strategia?

You can't expect that a replacement will have answers for the player he's replacing.

There's nothing stopping you from asking, however.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 1
Post by: zombie urist on January 22, 2012, 05:34:13 pm

Unvote

Quote from: Andrew425 on January 20, 2012, 06:12:21 pm

Quote from: zombie urist on January 20, 2012, 11:45:25 am

Why are you being so careless with your posts. A preview would have made it really obvious that something was wrong with your quotes.

Why are you nitpicking?

Andrew425 I'm being thorough. Scum aren't going to reveal themselves. You're deflecting my inquiries. Why?

Quote from: Tiruin on January 20, 2012, 11:06:09 pm

@zombie urist: Phantom explains my idea on the real game. Why did you ask that question anyway? It leads nowhere to finding scum.

"Real" wasn't the correct word to use then. I asked because it makes you are trying to make yourself look like a newbie also.

Quote from: ansontan2000 on January 21, 2012, 10:43:07 am

I'l post in the morning, it's really damned late.

Where is it?

Chaos Armor You've been defensive this entire game. Any reason why you're not scumhunting?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 1
Post by: Andrew425 on January 22, 2012, 07:55:44 pm

Quote from: zombie urist on January 22, 2012, 05:34:13 pm

Quote from: Andrew425 on January 20, 2012, 06:12:21 pm

Quote from: zombie urist on January 20, 2012, 11:45:25 am

Why are you being so careless with your posts. A preview would have made it really obvious that something was wrong with your quotes.

Why are you nitpicking?

Andrew425 I'm being thorough. Scum aren't going to reveal themselves. You're deflecting my inquiries. Why?

Deflecting your inquiries? I'm asking you why you are nitpicking the fact the he messed up his post. It seems like you're grasping for straws. Find an actual argument instead of that bs.

Quote from: Dariush on January 21, 2012, 07:39:09 am

Quote from: Andrew425 on January 20, 2012, 06:12:21 pm

I think it's a valid question, why do you think it isn't?

Because your question goes along the lines of 'you can choose to lynch the first person to sign up or the last, whom will you choose?'. There is equal probability of cop claiming and scum counter-fakeclaiming and vice versa. There are far too many other things to consider to simplify the situation to such a question.

And how then is it any less valid then any other sort of RVS type question?

Chaos Armor: You've been less then forthcoming with any sort of answers, and haven't been hunting. Is it laziness, scuminess or noobishness?

Jim As a IC do you think that when you vote, people are more likely to bandwagon behind you? Does this stop you from going after people?

Strategia Welcome to the game! Let's say you are the doctor tonight, which one of us would you be most likely to save?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 1
Post by: Jim Groovester on January 22, 2012, 09:49:21 pm

Quote from: Andrew425 on January 22, 2012, 07:55:44 pm

Jim As a IC do you think that when you vote, people are more likely to bandwagon behind you? Does this stop you from going after people?

Yes, and no.

I'm the IC. I've got the arguments to back up any assertion I can make. If people vote my targets then it's not a surprise.

I don't really stop going after people just because people are bandwagoning with my arguments. All it does is make me look at the people just agreeing with me.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 1
Post by: Strategia on January 22, 2012, 11:02:18 pm

Quote from: Tiruin on January 21, 2012, 11:13:36 pm

Spoiler: To Strategia and/or Phantom (click to show/hide)

Quote from: Strategia on January 21, 2012, 06:07:02 pm

Quote from: Phantom of The Library on January 21, 2012, 05:27:11 pm

Moreover I just defended Tiruin against zombie urist, if you could please show me all the times you claim I have "covered urist" other than the time that I defended him from stormtemplar when he was making a false claim.  In fact, overall I've defended Tiruin more than urist!  Do you have a single claim that actually holds up under scrutiny?

I haven't seen you defend Tiruin once, yet I have seen you speak for zombie urist. You didn't attack stormtemplar for making the false claim, you defended his target. You threw halfhearted attacks hither and yon, even after you started going after Chaos Armor.

What I got was, the thing about the difference between fake and real Mafia games.

And to the post above, how can that be an OMGUS when you just fingered him? I thought an OMGUS was based on a vote?

As far as I can tell, OMGUS applies when someone gets attacked, and then turns around on their attacker, with or without lynch vote, more or less because they're being attacked, rather than for any other reason. Given that, as far as I can tell, Phantom only voted me because I pitbulled him, I see it as an OMGUS.

Quote

Mod/ICs:Didn't know that votes get carried over, do the same questions that people asked stormtemplar get directed to Strategia?

I'd assume that any questions to stormtemplar were directed at him specifically, however I'll try to answer any question directed at me.

Quote from: Jim Groovester on January 22, 2012, 12:10:07 am

Quote from: Strategia on January 21, 2012, 12:51:40 pm

Phantom of the Library, why are you covering for zombie urist, chainsawing people who investigate him? Protecting your scumbuddy?

You have a few posts you could link to that make you think this way?

While I admit "chainsawing" may have been a hyperbole, and I used the term at least in part because I pulled it off the glossary in the first post, this (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=98714.msg2920092#msg2920092) reply turned a nagging suspicion into alarm bells for me. Phantom is defending urist for apparently no particular reason, and essentially speaking for him. If my opening, shall we say, inquiry was rather on the vicious side, then maybe it turns out that I'm a vicious player.

What first set me off was this post (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=98714.msg2912348#msg2912348) however. He'd already thrown open scum accusations around for little reason, and here's also the first time he's gone on the defensive after being called out on it and some mild prodding (even without the pointed language I used later). He seems eager to paint the slightest suspicion anyone has of him as a scumtell, right down to the first question Andrew asked of him. A more minor point is the fact that in his reply to Tiruin's hypothetical question, the last part of his post, Phantom's a little too eager to say that he's town and the hypothetical cop is scum, which bends and twists the question horribly. There's the WIFOM of this post (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=98714.msg2921339#msg2921339), asking me whether I would defend a scumbuddy (which is either a way to get me to help him seem less scummy, or a gateway to more WIFOM), and then there's this post (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=98714.msg2921879#msg2921879), where he accuses me of being scum just for deigning to attack him. He's even outright lying here; he has never once defended Tiruin as far as I can tell, so this just paints his defence of zombie urist in an even scummier light.

The more I think about it, the more I am sure. Phantom of the Library is scum. We lynch scum.

Quote from: Andrew425 on January 22, 2012, 07:55:44 pm

Strategia Welcome to the game! Let's say you are the doctor tonight, which one of us would you be most likely to save?

I'm not entirely sure. I haven't given much thought to the matter, but off the top of my head, possibly you or Tiruin. I'd have to do a thorough re-reading of the thread so far if I was to make an actual decision, though.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 1
Post by: Strategia on January 22, 2012, 11:06:25 pm

I knew I forgot something. zombie urist himself doesn't look that squeaky clean; here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=98714.msg2924181#msg2924181) he's throwing a baseless scum accusation at Andrew, and he's jumping on the Chaos Armor bandwagon. I strongly believe he's Phantom's scumbuddy, but Phantom is the more dangerous of the two in my eyes. Let's lynch zombie urist after we get rid of Phantom, shall we?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 1
Post by: Jim Groovester on January 22, 2012, 11:59:20 pm

Quote from: Strategia on January 22, 2012, 11:02:18 pm

While I admit "chainsawing" may have been a hyperbole, and I used the term at least in part because I pulled it off the glossary in the first post, this (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=98714.msg2920092#msg2920092) reply turned a nagging suspicion into alarm bells for me. Phantom is defending urist for apparently no particular reason, and essentially speaking for him. If my opening, shall we say, inquiry was rather on the vicious side, then maybe it turns out that I'm a vicious player.

What the hell are you talking about, Phantom of the Library is clarifying a point on behalf of Tiruin, not zombie urist.

Quote from: Strategia on January 22, 2012, 11:02:18 pm

He's even outright lying here; he has never once defended Tiruin as far as I can tell, so this just paints his defence of zombie urist in an even scummier light.

See the point above.

If you're going to make a devastating and sweeping accusation you might try to make sure you have your facts straight first.

Quote from: Strategia on January 22, 2012, 11:06:25 pm

Let's lynch zombie urist after we get rid of Phantom, shall we?

If your arguments are good they will stand well enough on their own that you don't have to resort to asking people to vote with you.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 1
Post by: Tiruin on January 23, 2012, 01:13:03 am

Oh no.

No, no no no.

We do not agree on who to lynch first unless we are sure of who is who. Or at least have a good feel on it.

That Chaos Armor Bandwagon isn't one because: It is in bold, no color. He isn't voting on him, just asking a question.

Andrew425: You haven't answered my question. Last post I made before this.
ansontan2000: Busy there? You were online until Jan 22 and are not replying, last post was on Jan 21, both forum time. Lurking?

---

PPE (Post by Jim): Unvote Strategia: You are very intent on lynching Phantom and/or zombie urist there and you expect them to already be scum. I don't think defending was the right word he used, clarifying seems better as zombie urist looks like he's taking my words at a wrong angle.

Quote from: Strategia on January 22, 2012, 11:02:18 pm

Quote from: Andrew425 on January 22, 2012, 07:55:44 pm

StrategiaLet's say you are the doctor tonight, which one of us would you be most likely to save?

I'm not entirely sure. I haven't given much thought to the matter, but off the top of my head, possibly you or Tiruin. I'd have to do a thorough re-reading of the thread so far if I was to make an actual decision, though.

And specifically why either me or Andrew? (@Andrew425: I think you should put a 'and why?' statement there, or in most of your questions. Helps with the explanation.)


Chaos Armor: You've been giving blunt answers the whole day and aren't helping in the conversation at all. If you're town, then you know you are innocent and will defend yourself, if you're scum, then you still would defend yourself.


Why aren't you doing anything, short of discussion?![/b]


zombie urist: I am a newbie, what difference does it make in this?



Mod Requesting votecount please.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 1
Post by: zombie urist on January 23, 2012, 02:29:09 am

Quote from: Andrew425 on January 22, 2012, 07:55:44 pm

Quote from: zombie urist on January 22, 2012, 05:34:13 pm

Quote from: Andrew425 on January 20, 2012, 06:12:21 pm

Quote from: zombie urist on January 20, 2012, 11:45:25 am

Why are you being so careless with your posts. A preview would have made it really obvious that something was wrong with your quotes.

Why are you nitpicking?

Andrew425 I'm being thorough. Scum aren't going to reveal themselves. You're deflecting my inquiries. Why?

Deflecting your inquiries? I'm asking you why you are nitpicking the fact the he messed up his post. It seems like you're grasping for straws. Find an actual argument instead of that bs.

Unvote Ok this is the problem when you don't quote completely. I thought you were the one that messed up the post when instead it was actually Ansontan. I'll let him respond before I continue further with these arguments. The only way to find scum is to question everything. He already made a pretty obvious mistake, so I'm just pressuring him more.

However it does feel strange that you're calling me out on his behalf. All your posts are very short and mostly consist of you asking other people questions. Are you going to do anything other than just ask questions?

Quote from: Strategia on January 22, 2012, 11:06:25 pm

I knew I forgot something. zombie urist himself doesn't look that squeaky clean; here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=98714.msg2924181#msg2924181) he's throwing a baseless scum accusation at Andrew, and he's jumping on the Chaos Armor bandwagon. I strongly believe he's Phantom's scumbuddy, but Phantom is the more dangerous of the two in my eyes. Let's lynch zombie urist after we get rid of Phantom, shall we?

I'm asking chaos armor questions about his responses, which I've been doing since my first post. You are very insistent on the "we" and are really eager and absolute in your decisions. Any specific reason you consider Phantom to be so dangerous?

Quote from: Tiruin on January 23, 2012, 01:13:03 am

zombie urist: I am a newbie, what difference does it make in this?

Same point Jim made to stormtemplar earlier. None. Don't expect sympathy for being a newbie. When you pointed out that it was you "first real game", it looked like you were trying to make yourself look less experienced as to get some slack.
You also seem to be merely repeating a lot of things other people said especially Jim and myself. Do you have anything original to contribute?

ansontan2000 My still standing questions to you: why didn't you post like you said and why didn't you check that previous post you made before submitting?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 1
Post by: Tiruin on January 23, 2012, 04:20:13 am

zombie urist: To be clear, I am not relying on my newness here so anyone can give me slack. In fact, I hoped nobody would notice that tiny indention and would treat me just like everyone else-- a Mafia player. I do not want any sympathy, nor do I want any kind of holding back and I'm obviously not asking for it.

Phantom fixed that up, if you missed it. My last game was BM XXIX, and I was a replacement on that, far in game too so I only experienced part of it yet had to read all of it.

*Points at title* Beginner's Mafia.

And by repeating? You make it seem like only you and Jim are giving substantial amounts of information to this whole game by that single sentence in itself. If you feel that I'm posting huge walls of text just to look active, then say so. But read what I have in my posts before you say that.

I would've also been called out by the ICs if I've done nothing but repeat repeat repeat. They are the impartial source of information, and are here to help all of us. Even if they are scum.

But back on topic, shall we? Before we continue this pointless debate on how my newishness has any of it's effects on my own posts and written word. Why aren't you scumhunting? You, yourself stated that in your first post by the way.

Spoiler: All I see in your posts are answers and help to everyone else, but nothing on finding and questioning. Related on playstyle in game that is. (click to show/hide)

Quote from: zombie urist on January 18, 2012, 03:00:07 pm

Quote from: stormtemplar on January 17, 2012, 11:36:45 pm

zombie urist: You are mafia, and accused mostly due to inactivity. How would you deflect this accusation?

Since every person's activity is available for everyone to see, the best way to avoid this sort of thing is to simply be active. Keep in mind that inactivity isn't necessarily indicative of scumminess. However, hesitance to scumhunting is. 

Quote from: Chaos Armor on January 17, 2012, 11:25:26 pm

Very very sorry about that. I thought you weren't really asking me and I was doing something else at the moment of reading that.

I'm really sorry but I just can't describe what I'm trying to say and that is due in part to that it all depends on the situation to me. Also since I have never played mafia before, I need time to recognize patterns and strategies. I recognize you are trying to teach me about the different strategies but I don't think I can give a general answer since every situation is different. 
Sorry

Why are you being so apologetic? You said sorry three times in one response. Also, why are you so unconfident with your abilities to convey your thoughts? Are you scared of saying something you didn't mean?

Quote from: Tiruin on January 18, 2012, 08:30:37 am

I've been thinking with every word I type down here actually.

You had your vote on me the whole time by the way, or does double voting for one person have any effect?

Tiruin I don't think stormtemplar ever had his vote on you. In fact, you chose him in the RVS. And if you are really thinking with every word, then why did you do a triple post instead of taking more time and putting all that into one?

Quote from: zombie urist on January 18, 2012, 07:42:42 pm

Andrew425 and stormtemplar Instead of copying and pasting what other people said into your quotes, scroll down to the post itself and press the 'insert quote' on the top right corner and delete the irrelevant parts. This makes it easier for us to see who you're responding to.

Stormtemplar you didn't acknowledge my response. Why not?

Quote from: Chaos Armor on January 18, 2012, 04:28:25 pm

Why am I being so apologetic, because it is impolite for one to not anwer anothers question. As for why I'm not so confident in my abilities to convey thoughts, it's not a lack of confidence it's a lack of ability. I just have trouble conveying stuff, especially through writing because I cannot convey the emotions as well.

Apologizing three times is a little excessive. If it's impolite to not answer other people's questions, then why haven't you responded to other people's questions. In fact, Tiruin explicitly pointed out that, up until that point, you've only answered a question from the IC.

Quote from: zombie urist on January 18, 2012, 08:55:11 pm

unvote
stormtemplar Are you purposely ignoring me?

Quote from: Tiruin on January 18, 2012, 08:36:26 pm

Quote from: zombie urist on January 18, 2012, 03:00:07 pm

Tiruin I don't think stormtemplar ever had his vote on you. In fact, you chose him in the RVS. And if you are really thinking with every word, then why did you do a triple post instead of taking more time and putting all that into one?

zombie urist: I chose him in the RVS, yes, but that doesn't mean that it is permanently on him. You haven't been asking questions to anyone at all as far as I see.
The triple post, what is wrong with that I ask you? I realized something amiss, posted my thought on it, and then corrected it after re-reading it again.
Nervous because of a single vote, zombie urist?

I don't understand why you're bolding this part of my post. I'm responding to the fact that you accused him of voting on you when he hasn't. There is nothing wrong with a triple post in itself, but it makes me feel you are going for quantity rather than quality. I understand that votes get thrown around in the RVS and thus am not overly concerned with his vote on me nor your vote on him. How can you say that I'm not asking questions when you just answered one of mine?

Quote from: zombie urist on January 19, 2012, 11:59:15 pm

Quote from: Tiruin on January 19, 2012, 12:18:13 am

Now I get what you meant zombie urist.
You misunderstood, my last sentence was directed @Dariush as he voted for me once, then did it again.

Ok I see what happened. Still I wonder why you said that I didn't ask any questions when I clearly had.

Quote from: Tiruin on January 19, 2012, 10:02:00 pm

Being a novice is no excuse, this is my first real game in the Mafia.

What's the difference between a real game and a fake one?

Quote from: Chaos Armor on January 19, 2012, 10:57:11 pm

I have not had any questions to ask.

If you read Jim's first post, it pretty much says any questions relating to the game are fine.

Quote from: Chaos Armor on January 19, 2012, 10:57:11 pm

Although that is a very flawed offensive counterattack.

Voting him without any evidence is also a very flawed offensive counterattack. It even has a name--OMGUS.

Quote from: Phantom of The Library on January 19, 2012, 06:06:53 pm

Chaos Armor Why have you not asked any questions?

Tiruin has brought this up several times. Do you have anything original to add?

Quote from: Phantom of The Library on January 19, 2012, 09:37:20 pm

Quote from: Andrew425 on January 19, 2012, 06:39:42 pm

Two people claim cop, are you more likely to believe the first one or the second one?

As I already said in an earlier post, for now: looking for common scumtells and anything that doesn't quite match up about people's actions.

This doesn't answer his new question.

Stormtemplar where are you?

EXTENSION

Quote from: zombie urist on January 20, 2012, 11:45:25 am

Quote from: Tiruin on January 20, 2012, 06:41:55 am

@zombie urist: Real game - as in my first game not being a replacement. My first game I've participated in the RVS, etc.
What do you mean by a fake Mafia game?! How was that even a question?

That's the point I'm trying to make. There's no such thing as a fake game. All mafia games are real mafia games.

Quote from: ansontan2000 on January 20, 2012, 04:06:23 am

/quote]

Why are you being so careless with your posts. A preview would have made it really obvious that something was wrong with your quotes.

Quote from: ansontan2000 on January 19, 2012, 06:12:11 pm

Stormtemplar, as Jim said, saying you're a novice is no excuse. apart for Jim and Dariush, we're ALL novices. Explain to me now what exactly you were trying to find out with that question.

You haven't really been contributing anything new to the conversation. Also, why are you being so forceful?

Quote from: zombie urist on January 22, 2012, 05:34:13 pm

Unvote

Quote from: Andrew425 on January 20, 2012, 06:12:21 pm

Quote from: zombie urist on January 20, 2012, 11:45:25 am

Why are you being so careless with your posts. A preview would have made it really obvious that something was wrong with your quotes.

Why are you nitpicking?

Andrew425 I'm being thorough. Scum aren't going to reveal themselves. You're deflecting my inquiries. Why?

Quote from: Tiruin on January 20, 2012, 11:06:09 pm

@zombie urist: Phantom explains my idea on the real game. Why did you ask that question anyway? It leads nowhere to finding scum.

"Real" wasn't the correct word to use then. I asked because it makes you are trying to make yourself look like a newbie also.

Quote from: ansontan2000 on January 21, 2012, 10:43:07 am

I'l post in the morning, it's really damned late.

Where is it?

Chaos Armor You've been defensive this entire game. Any reason why you're not scumhunting?

And that post above.

Quote from: zombie urist on January 23, 2012, 02:29:09 am

Quote from: Andrew425 on January 22, 2012, 07:55:44 pm

Quote from: zombie urist on January 22, 2012, 05:34:13 pm

Quote from: Andrew425 on January 20, 2012, 06:12:21 pm

Quote from: zombie urist on January 20, 2012, 11:45:25 am

Why are you being so careless with your posts. A preview would have made it really obvious that something was wrong with your quotes.

Why are you nitpicking?

Andrew425 I'm being thorough. Scum aren't going to reveal themselves. You're deflecting my inquiries. Why?

Deflecting your inquiries? I'm asking you why you are nitpicking the fact the he messed up his post. It seems like you're grasping for straws. Find an actual argument instead of that bs.

Unvote Ok this is the problem when you don't quote completely. I thought you were the one that messed up the post when instead it was actually Ansontan. I'll let him respond before I continue further with these arguments. The only way to find scum is to question everything. He already made a pretty obvious mistake, so I'm just pressuring him more.

However it does feel strange that you're calling me out on his behalf. All your posts are very short and mostly consist of you asking other people questions. Are you going to do anything other than just ask questions?

Quote from: Strategia on January 22, 2012, 11:06:25 pm

I knew I forgot something. zombie urist himself doesn't look that squeaky clean; here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=98714.msg2924181#msg2924181) he's throwing a baseless scum accusation at Andrew, and he's jumping on the Chaos Armor bandwagon. I strongly believe he's Phantom's scumbuddy, but Phantom is the more dangerous of the two in my eyes. Let's lynch zombie urist after we get rid of Phantom, shall we?

I'm asking chaos armor questions about his responses, which I've been doing since my first post. You are very insistent on the "we" and are really eager and absolute in your decisions. Any specific reason you consider Phantom to be so dangerous?

Quote from: Tiruin on January 23, 2012, 01:13:03 am

zombie urist: I am a newbie, what difference does it make in this?

Same point Jim made to stormtemplar earlier. None. Don't expect sympathy for being a newbie. When you pointed out that it was you "first real game", it looked like you were trying to make yourself look less experienced as to get some slack.
You also seem to be merely repeating a lot of things other people said especially Jim and myself. Do you have anything original to contribute?

ansontan2000 My still standing questions to you: why didn't you post like you said and why didn't you check that previous post you made before submitting?

All your posts are listed above by the way. In order.

Skipping the spoiler, it seems in my opinion that you have no inclination to give out your own questions-- an RVS question even, and are beginning to set out like you have outside information!

Also, not to answer for him/her but I guess Strategia already gave his/her reason why he/she considers Phantom to be dangerous. In that post.


Oh, right. Something original to contribute, got it.

zombie urist: I've underlined and outlined some very nice statements you made in orange above, in your posts. Its like, you have another source of information out there. You haven't given any RVS questions at all: this is what I meant by not asking any questions. Like you bother not to know anyone's style or what they would do in a given situation.

It's like when you say "give something original to contribute" means you want more info from them-- us, being the case; you aren't asking us anything short of Mafia itself. Like you're trying to set everyone else right, without adding to the hunt. You harrage us for lack of info, to say bluntly.

Like you're trying to get us to stop pressing the attack and lead us in circles by asking us to give answers from our complete lack of information. None know the roles of everyone else, except the scum who know those that must die for them to win!

I believe you're relying on someone else to get said information.

The pretty obvious mistake ansontan2000 did was in formatting, how does that make him scum? The reason for my unvote. For Andrew425, formatting also.

You also assaulted stormtemplar on...what question was that exactly? Wait, there was no question. What response was there to acknowledge, may I ask?

Also, all your votes are just based on pressuring them to answer you; none of which have any connection to spotting scum. Have you no real mark?

I apologize then, if I answer your question with a question:

Quote from: zombie urist on January 22, 2012, 05:34:13 pm

Any reason why you're not scumhunting?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 1
Post by: ansontan2000 on January 23, 2012, 05:55:30 am

Sorry, it's Chinese new year and the past two days have been full of running around trying to prepare the house for the family.

Anyways,
Unvote, zombie urist: Where do I start? Oh, yes. First of all, this is NOT a discussion about the way to make your posts. This is a game of mafia.
Second, your continuous poking of me leads to me believing that you have absolutely NO lead at all on who is scum. Care to try and actually scumhunt mate? As Tiruin very kindly pointed out with his large spoiler, you have not been RVSing at all and have instead been poking at people, trying to nitpick, snipe, and bandwagon. Don't prod lurkers. Even beforehand you spent an awfully large amount of time poking stormtemplar. You asking why i'm being so forceful is completely irrelevant. Remember that this is not a friendly discussion.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 1
Post by: zombie urist on January 23, 2012, 11:55:08 am

Quote from: Tiruin on January 23, 2012, 04:20:13 am

zombie urist: To be clear, I am not relying on my newness here so anyone can give me slack. In fact, I hoped nobody would notice that tiny indention and would treat me just like everyone else-- a Mafia player. I do not want any sympathy, nor do I want any kind of holding back and I'm obviously not asking for it.

I'm not saying you are, but the fact that you even mentioned it made you look like you wanted sympathy.

Quote

And by repeating? You make it seem like only you and Jim are giving substantial amounts of information to this whole game by that single sentence in itself. If you feel that I'm posting huge walls of text just to look active, then say so. But read what I have in my posts before you say that. I would've also been called out by the ICs if I've done nothing but repeat repeat repeat. They are the impartial source of information, and are here to help all of us. Even if they are scum.

I'm not saying your walls of text are to look active. I'm just saying a lot of what you said, others have said already. Also you spent a lot of time going back and forth with Chaos Armor, without much to show for it. Sometimes even the IC's miss stuff. You also tend to repeat stuff within posts. In that post alone, you've said I haven't asked any RVS questions twice.

There's a serious communication issue between us. How did you conclude that 'only Jim and I were contributing' from that statement?

Quote

Skipping the spoiler, it seems in my opinion that you have no inclination to give out your own questions-- an RVS question even, and are beginning to set out like you have outside information!

It's true that I skipped the RVS stage. The reason for RVS is to get discussion started for the lack of anything better. When I joined, I thought people already contributed enough to skip that area. I don't understand how you jumped from "you're not asking RVS questions" to "you might be getting outside information". RVS is not a to get to know someone's playstyle. People say and do different things under different conditions. Also, hypotheticals very rarely play out exactly the way they are phrased in the game.

Quote

zombie urist: I've underlined and outlined some very nice statements you made in orange above, in your posts. Its like, you have another source of information out there. You haven't given any RVS questions at all: this is what I meant by not asking any questions. Like you bother not to know anyone's style or what they would do in a given situation.

How do the outlined statements lead to the conclusion of an outside information source? By going through all my posts and outlining the 'nice statements' leads to confirmation bias. See above on the RVS issue.

Quote

It's like when you say "give something original to contribute" means you want more info from them-- us, being the case; you aren't asking us anything short of Mafia itself. Like you're trying to set everyone else right, without adding to the hunt. You harrage us for lack of info, to say bluntly.

That's not what that means. I want you do your own scumhunting. A lot of what you've said so far are repeats, clarifications, and that side argument with Chaos Armor.

Quote

Like you're trying to get us to stop pressing the attack and lead us in circles by asking us to give answers from our complete lack of information. None know the roles of everyone else, except the scum who know those that must die for them to win!

I have no idea what this means.

Quote

The pretty obvious mistake ansontan2000 did was in formatting, how does that make him scum? The reason for my unvote. For Andrew425, formatting also.

You also assaulted stormtemplar on...what question was that exactly? Wait, there was no question. What response was there to acknowledge, may I ask?

I responded to his question, and he didn't acknowledge my response. Assault is such a strong word. Are you saying you unvoted ansontan because he made a formatting error? I'll get to ansontan in my next post.

Your entire post reads like an OMGUS, especially answering a question with the exact same question. The only reason that you're voting me is that I haven't asked any RVS questions. It looks like you've given up on Chaos Armor and are looking for a new target. What's wrong with my scumhunting?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 1
Post by: Jim Groovester on January 23, 2012, 02:46:52 pm

Quote from: Tiruin on January 23, 2012, 04:20:13 am

zombie urist: I've underlined and outlined some very nice statements you made in orange above, in your posts. Its like, you have another source of information out there. You haven't given any RVS questions at all: this is what I meant by not asking any questions. Like you bother not to know anyone's style or what they would do in a given situation.

zombie urist has been in Beginner's Mafias before.

WUH OH

Players who play in multiple Beginner's Mafias usually perform significantly better than completely new players. His 'nice source' is probably experience from other games, in which case, it's not surprising that he has a better idea of what to do and not indicative at all that he's getting outside help, i.e., Toaster.

You're also overestimating the importance of the RVS. It's much better to learn people's playstyles by watching what they do instead of asking them about it.

Quote from: Tiruin on January 23, 2012, 04:20:13 am

Also, all your votes are just based on pressuring them to answer you; none of which have any connection to spotting scum. Have you no real mark?

Right.

So, zombie urist isn't hunting. What about all that orange shit you highlighted? That looks like scumhunting to me.

Quote from: ansontan2000 on January 23, 2012, 05:55:30 am

Sorry, it's Chinese new year and the past two days have been full of running around trying to prepare the house for the family.

Anyways,
Unvote, zombie urist: Where do I start? Oh, yes. First of all, this is NOT a discussion about the way to make your posts. This is a game of mafia.
Second, your continuous poking of me leads to me believing that you have absolutely NO lead at all on who is scum. Care to try and actually scumhunt mate? As Tiruin very kindly pointed out with his large spoiler, you have not been RVSing at all and have instead been poking at people, trying to nitpick, snipe, and bandwagon. Don't prod lurkers. Even beforehand you spent an awfully large amount of time poking stormtemplar. You asking why i'm being so forceful is completely irrelevant. Remember that this is not a friendly discussion.

This is a transparent bandwagon.

Why are you bandwagoning transparently?

I can't think of anything significant you've done, yet here are you are voting for zombie urist while borrowing Tiruin's reasons wholesale and adding none of your own. That's, like, the definition of a bandwagon.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 1
Post by: Phantom of The Library on January 23, 2012, 06:01:55 pm

Quote from: Strategia on January 21, 2012, 06:07:02 pm

I don't know what stormtemplar's motivations were, and my attack on you is not on false premises.

Actually you do.  You inherited his alignment when you replaced him if I'm not mistaken.  And as has been shown many times you are attacking on false premises.

Quote from: Strategia on January 21, 2012, 06:07:02 pm

And there's the almighty Mr. OMGUS. Like I said, I can't speak for stormtemplar, but I've only made one attack before this post. I got suspicious of you when I re-read the thread after joining, so I started pushing. It seems to be working too, you're being very defensive given that this is only my second interaction with you and I've only FoSed you so far. I can't say for sure you're not town, but you're giving me a funny feeling inside, and I'm not talking about the one where I buy you flowers and chocolate.

Actually my vote was not an OMGUS, it was what was called a Pressure Vote.  It's something that's done in RVS and the game in general. 
I was suspicious of stormtemplar before he dropped out and thought that he stood the highest chance of being scum out of anyone.  When you joined and attacked me right off the bat with several false claims I decided to lay a Pressure Vote on you and redact it around today if you seemed clean.  Guess what?  You look like a gigantic scumbag. 

You are relentlessly attacking me because I put a little pressure on you and claim that I am the one getting defensive.  Your original claim that I was covering urist has a grand total of ONE instance.  As Tiruin has provided examples of; I have defended Tiruin the same number of times as I have urist and have actually agreed with his points more than urist.  That is what I meant be defended him, I will admit that a better word to use might have been collaborated with.

Quote from: Strategia on January 21, 2012, 06:07:02 pm

Quote from: Phantom of The Library on January 21, 2012, 05:27:11 pm

For one, I have never attacked ansontan, he was my first and only vote, true, but I redacted the vote a while ago and have neither pressured nor attacked him in any way shape or form since, and other than my initial questioning I never have.

I'll concede you this on the grounds of RVS. I see he can be replaced in my argument however with Andrew245, another random target of yours.

Quote

You on the other hand seem to be carrying on stormtemplar's fine tradition of making attacks on false premises.

I don't know what stormtemplar's motivations were, and my attack on you is not on false premises.

Quote

Moreover I just defended Tiruin against zombie urist, if you could please show me all the times you claim I have "covered urist" other than the time that I defended him from stormtemplar when he was making a false claim.  In fact, overall I've defended Tiruin more than urist!  Do you have a single claim that actually holds up under scrutiny?

I haven't seen you defend Tiruin once, yet I have seen you speak for zombie urist. You didn't attack stormtemplar for making the false claim, you defended his target. You threw halfhearted attacks hither and yon, even after you started going after Chaos Armor.

In the same post you admit that this is RVS and then accuse me of attacking random people, I was under the impression that we were supposed to pressure multiple people in this stage.  My strategy that I have developed so far consists of putting pressure on any weakpoint I see in anyone until I find someone who looks scummy enough to go after, and to answer the coming question, this only became a solid plan and not a random idea after the question about my strategy.

Quote from: Strategia on January 22, 2012, 11:02:18 pm

Quote from: Tiruin on January 21, 2012, 11:13:36 pm

Spoiler: To Strategia and/or Phantom (click to show/hide)

Quote from: Strategia on January 21, 2012, 06:07:02 pm

Quote from: Phantom of The Library on January 21, 2012, 05:27:11 pm

Moreover I just defended Tiruin against zombie urist, if you could please show me all the times you claim I have "covered urist" other than the time that I defended him from stormtemplar when he was making a false claim.  In fact, overall I've defended Tiruin more than urist!  Do you have a single claim that actually holds up under scrutiny?

I haven't seen you defend Tiruin once, yet I have seen you speak for zombie urist. You didn't attack stormtemplar for making the false claim, you defended his target. You threw halfhearted attacks hither and yon, even after you started going after Chaos Armor.

What I got was, the thing about the difference between fake and real Mafia games.

And to the post above, how can that be an OMGUS when you just fingered him? I thought an OMGUS was based on a vote?

As far as I can tell, OMGUS applies when someone gets attacked, and then turns around on their attacker, with or without lynch vote, more or less because they're being attacked, rather than for any other reason. Given that, as far as I can tell, Phantom only voted me because I pitbulled him, I see it as an OMGUS.

Quote

Mod/ICs:Didn't know that votes get carried over, do the same questions that people asked stormtemplar get directed to Strategia?

I'd assume that any questions to stormtemplar were directed at him specifically, however I'll try to answer any question directed at me.

Quote from: Strategia on January 21, 2012, 12:51:40 pm

A more minor point is the fact that in his reply to Tiruin's hypothetical question, the last part of his post, Phantom's a little too eager to say that he's town and the hypothetical cop is scum, which bends and twists the question horribly.

I fail to see how this is a horrible twisting of the question.  I was under the impression that the question was meant to be answered from town point of view only.  Here's an answer from the scum point of view if you so desire it: I would do the exact same thing.  Since anything other would label me as scum.

Also, you seem to be attempting to start a bandwagon:

Quote from: Strategia on January 22, 2012, 11:02:18 pm

The more I think about it, the more I am sure. Phantom of the Library is scum. We lynch scum.

Quote from: Strategia on January 22, 2012, 11:06:25 pm

Let's lynch zombie urist after we get rid of Phantom, shall we?

Instead of providing a logical argument and proof to back it up, you seem to be trying to get everyone to hop onto your two chosen targets.

I can see a few possibilities here:

• You're scum
• You're lazy, given the fact that you claim to have read the entire game again this is unlikely
• You somehow got this strange idea that townies are supposed to act like scum
• You're sleep deprived
• You're new and/or incompetent, possibly combined with any of the above.

Defend yourself Strategia.

PPE: Before you accuse me of lurking I didn't have the time yesterday to sit down and look at mafia, only enough to look at my other regularly visited places and make a couple posts.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 1
Post by: Strategia on January 23, 2012, 07:35:19 pm

Quote from: Phantom of The Library on January 23, 2012, 06:01:55 pm

I can see a few possibilities here:

• You're scum
• You're lazy, given the fact that you claim to have read the entire game again this is unlikely
• You somehow got this strange idea that townies are supposed to act like scum
• You're sleep deprived
• You're new and/or incompetent, possibly combined with any of the above.

Defend yourself Strategia.

I'll start with this one right off the bat, as it saves me from giving the same reply several times. Your last two points are dead on. I live in Europe, GMT +1, and I submitted that post immediately after 5AM. Truth be told, I picked you for RVS, initially deciding to pressure you specifically rather than going after multiple people at once. The fact that stormtemplar was already attacking you had nothing to do with it, I have had absolutely no communication with him. I did pick up a funny feeling from some of your posts, but then I opened up far too viciously. One thing I interpreted from the opening post was that doubt was good to have but bad to show, and another was that you're supposed to press on in a scumhunt. By then, given the fact that I was already outright accusing you, I just ran with it. Combine that with the aforementioned fact that my previous post was written in the wee hours, and you get a perfect storm of suspicion and misinterpretation feeding each other.

Unvote for now, until I have a clearer picture of the game. I'm still keeping an eye on you, but I'll concede that a lot of what I already said was outright wrong.

And now the rest of my responses in chronological order.

Quote from: Jim Groovester on January 22, 2012, 11:59:20 pm

If you're going to make a devastating and sweeping accusation you might try to make sure you have your facts straight first.

If your arguments are good they will stand well enough on their own that you don't have to resort to asking people to vote with you.

My sleep-addled brain thought it had the facts straight. As it turns out, I've been over-eager as well as vicious up to this point, so I'll try to dial it down to normal. I knew I didn't have much to go on, but I somehow thought that putting my suspicions out in the open at that point was the best thing to do. It kinda, wasn't. The suggestion to vote was meant to be rhetorical, part of my usual style. I don't often write it out, but I often imagine such rhetorical questions when I'm developing arguments to make a point.

Quote from: Tiruin on January 23, 2012, 01:13:03 am

That Chaos Armor Bandwagon isn't one because: It is in bold, no color. He isn't voting on him, just asking a question.

That's partially a result of interpreting common terms rather loosely. I saw several people pressuring Chaos Armor throughout the game, and I've seen some people keep their votes on him, so when zombie urist pressured Chaos Armor as well it looked like an easy bandwagon to me at the time, especially given that I was already accusing him of being scum.

Quote

And specifically why either me or Andrew? (@Andrew425: I think you should put a 'and why?' statement there, or in most of your questions. Helps with the explanation.)

I hadn't given much thought to it, and I mainly wanted to finish writing and go to bed so I didn't read the thread again. Basically, I thought Phantom and zombie were scum, I'd seen people pressuring Chaos Armor, and I hadn't seen any pressure being applied to the ICs, so that left the two of you. I still don't know who I'd protect, but if I actually was a doctor, I'd certainly give it some good thought. I don't know if I'd openly announce it though, for various reasons (letting the scum go after a townie I'm not protecting, or accidentally protecting scum which then tries to get me to protect them every night).

Quote from: zombie urist on January 23, 2012, 02:29:09 am

I'm asking chaos armor questions about his responses, which I've been doing since my first post. You are very insistent on the "we" and are really eager and absolute in your decisions. Any specific reason you consider Phantom to be so dangerous?

Sleep deprivation, 5AM, et cetera. The "Phantom is dangerous" bit is part of what I described above, taking a bad idea and running with it.

Quote from: Phantom of The Library on January 23, 2012, 06:01:55 pm

Actually my vote was not an OMGUS, it was what was called a Pressure Vote.  It's something that's done in RVS and the game in general. 
I was suspicious of stormtemplar before he dropped out and thought that he stood the highest chance of being scum out of anyone.  When you joined and attacked me right off the bat with several false claims I decided to lay a Pressure Vote on you and redact it around today if you seemed clean.  Guess what?  You look like a gigantic scumbag. 

You are relentlessly attacking me because I put a little pressure on you and claim that I am the one getting defensive.  Your original claim that I was covering urist has a grand total of ONE instance.  As Tiruin has provided examples of; I have defended Tiruin the same number of times as I have urist and have actually agreed with his points more than urist.  That is what I meant be defended him, I will admit that a better word to use might have been collaborated with.

I decided to attack you partially as RVS and partially because I really do have my suspicions, and I kept attacking you because..... well, bad idea, running, you get the picture. I felt I should make at least one solid post per day, but I kept putting it off until it was well past 4AM and my higher reasoning was shutting down. So consider this to be the thought-out, well-reasoned post I should have made either earlier or not at all yesterday. I misinterpreted some of your posts, made some huge mistakes, and I realised I may have done something very wrong the moment I woke up today.

Quote

Also, you seem to be attempting to start a bandwagon:

Quote from: Strategia on January 22, 2012, 11:02:18 pm

The more I think about it, the more I am sure. Phantom of the Library is scum. We lynch scum.

Quote from: Strategia on January 22, 2012, 11:06:25 pm

Let's lynch zombie urist after we get rid of Phantom, shall we?

Instead of providing a logical argument and proof to back it up, you seem to be trying to get everyone to hop onto your two chosen targets.

Well, like I said above, that's a combination of spectacularly poor judgement and a misapplied flair for rhetorical questions.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 1
Post by: Strategia on January 23, 2012, 07:49:28 pm

Also I really need to stop putting off posting. I could've (and should've) made the above post several hours ago, but I thought I'd play some Terraria first. Again, not my greatest idea ever.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 1
Post by: Tiruin on January 23, 2012, 10:39:37 pm

Now you're jumping to conclusions.

Quote from: zombie urist on January 23, 2012, 11:55:08 am

Quote from: Tiruin on January 23, 2012, 04:20:13 am

zombie urist: To be clear, I am not relying on my newness here so anyone can give me slack. In fact, I hoped nobody would notice that tiny indention and would treat me just like everyone else-- a Mafia player. I do not want any sympathy, nor do I want any kind of holding back and I'm obviously not asking for it.

I'm not saying you are, but the fact that you even mentioned it made you look like you wanted sympathy.

The thing is, I didn't mention it specifically, you pointed it out and acted on that for a few posts.

Quote from: zombie urist on January 23, 2012, 11:55:08 am

Quote

And by repeating? You make it seem like only you and Jim are giving substantial amounts of information to this whole game by that single sentence in itself. If you feel that I'm posting huge walls of text just to look active, then say so. But read what I have in my posts before you say that. I would've also been called out by the ICs if I've done nothing but repeat repeat repeat. They are the impartial source of information, and are here to help all of us. Even if they are scum.

I'm not saying your walls of text are to look active. I'm just saying a lot of what you said, others have said already. Also you spent a lot of time going back and forth with Chaos Armor, without much to show for it. Sometimes even the IC's miss stuff. You also tend to repeat stuff within posts. In that post alone, you've said I haven't asked any RVS questions twice.

There's a serious communication issue between us. How did you conclude that 'only Jim and I were contributing' from that statement?

Not a conclusion. It was an answer to: "You also seem to be merely repeating a lot of things other people said especially Jim and myself. Do you have anything original to contribute?"

Quote from: zombie urist on January 23, 2012, 11:55:08 am

Quote

Skipping the spoiler, it seems in my opinion that you have no inclination to give out your own questions-- an RVS question even, and are beginning to set out like you have outside information!

It's true that I skipped the RVS stage. The reason for RVS is to get discussion started for the lack of anything better. When I joined, I thought people already contributed enough to skip that area. I don't understand how you jumped from "you're not asking RVS questions" to "you might be getting outside information". RVS is not a to get to know someone's playstyle. People say and do different things under different conditions. Also, hypotheticals very rarely play out exactly the way they are phrased in the game.

Yes, people say and do different things based on the immediate event. Yes, I understand the purpose of the RVS, the thing is: I'm just asking you why you aren't asking things straight to the point. You keep on shifting your votes just to pressure others, but I'm curious why you aren't questioning in detail-- meaning why you aren't making any aggressive moves.

Quote from: zombie urist on January 23, 2012, 11:55:08 am

Quote

zombie urist: I've underlined and outlined some very nice statements you made in orange above, in your posts. Its like, you have another source of information out there. You haven't given any RVS questions at all: this is what I meant by not asking any questions. Like you bother not to know anyone's style or what they would do in a given situation.

How do the outlined statements lead to the conclusion of an outside information source? By going through all my posts and outlining the 'nice statements' leads to confirmation bias. See above on the RVS issue.

Well, you are participating in the conversation, but not in the way that would directly lead to finding scum. Your answers were not to the essence behind those posts, from where I see it.

Quote from: zombie urist on January 23, 2012, 11:55:08 am

Quote

It's like when you say "give something original to contribute" means you want more info from them-- us, being the case; you aren't asking us anything short of Mafia itself. Like you're trying to set everyone else right, without adding to the hunt. You harrage us for lack of info, to say bluntly.

That's not what that means. I want you do your own scumhunting. A lot of what you've said so far are repeats, clarifications, and that side argument with Chaos Armor.

I am doing my own scumhunting. That "Side Argument", as you put it, seems like one because I can see that Chaos Armor is just repeating himself, not posting at all since some time ago.

Quote from: zombie urist on January 23, 2012, 11:55:08 am

Quote

Like you're trying to get us to stop pressing the attack and lead us in circles by asking us to give answers from our complete lack of information. None know the roles of everyone else, except the scum who know those that must die for them to win!

I have no idea what this means.

Won't you at least give your own opinion then?

Quote from: zombie urist on January 23, 2012, 11:55:08 am

Quote

The pretty obvious mistake ansontan2000 did was in formatting, how does that make him scum? The reason for my unvote. For Andrew425, formatting also.

You also assaulted stormtemplar on...what question was that exactly? Wait, there was no question. What response was there to acknowledge, may I ask?

I responded to his question, and he didn't acknowledge my response. Assault is such a strong word. Are you saying you unvoted ansontan because he made a formatting error? I'll get to ansontan in my next post.

Your entire post reads like an OMGUS, especially answering a question with the exact same question. The only reason that you're voting me is that I haven't asked any RVS questions. It looks like you've given up on Chaos Armor and are looking for a new target. What's wrong with my scumhunting?

An OMGUS? Seriously? Can you point out then where I'm going wrong? Where I'm showing any signs of cracking under pressure? Did you not read anything I stated?

Quote from: webadict on January 08, 2012, 05:16:59 pm

OMGUS - Oh My God U Suck, a vote on someone else simply because they voted or attacked you.
OMGUSing: Short for Oh My God You Suck, by the way. Voting or otherwise applying pressure to whoever's voting you. It implies that you're really concerned about being pressured/lynched and want them to stop, which is more a scum thing. A townie would, in theory, be more open to the notion that their fellow townie is attempting to scumhunt at them, and less concerned about being found out.

I found no reason behind your statement of OMGUS, your vote on me was based on the wrong reasons. Misreading in short. How does that even qualify as such? I'm voting you because I think you are scum.

On ansontan2000, I've stated my unvote wrong. I unvoted him because that (my vote) was just to pressure him to state his reasons and answer. Why would I put a vote on him because of formatting-- his formatting in question had the vote on himself by the way. I'm not backtracking by this too, it's pretty obvious there. Afterwards, you also voted him on to get his answer as I see it.

I've not given up on Chaos Armor. The lack of posts from him makes him look like a lurker in my eyes. He isn't participating at all here, and I don't think you read the last statement I said about him. The one in bold and underlined? He is still active on the forums, but isn't giving anything at all here making him very vague. Since Jim's post, he hasn't done anything. That's as far as I can say about him, can you add to it?

And by answering a question with the exact same question? Quote it for me, if you may.

Besides, who or what are you really scumhunting for, if you state so?

---

Quote from: Jim Groovester on January 23, 2012, 02:46:52 pm

Quote from: Tiruin on January 23, 2012, 04:20:13 am

zombie urist: I've underlined and outlined some very nice statements you made in orange above, in your posts. Its like, you have another source of information out there. You haven't given any RVS questions at all: this is what I meant by not asking any questions. Like you bother not to know anyone's style or what they would do in a given situation.

zombie urist has been in Beginner's Mafias before.

WUH OH

Players who play in multiple Beginner's Mafias usually perform significantly better than completely new players. His 'nice source' is probably experience from other games, in which case, it's not surprising that he has a better idea of what to do and not indicative at all that he's getting outside help, i.e., Toaster.

You're also overestimating the importance of the RVS. It's much better to learn people's playstyles by watching what they do instead of asking them about it.

Quote from: Tiruin on January 23, 2012, 04:20:13 am

Also, all your votes are just based on pressuring them to answer you; none of which have any connection to spotting scum. Have you no real mark?

Right.

So, zombie urist isn't hunting. What about all that orange shit you highlighted? That looks like scumhunting to me.

Alright, to clarify: There are those that have been in multiple BMs before, zombie urist has been in one: BM XXVI to be exact; but as far as I know, Andrew425 has also been in BMs, albeit more in number than zombie urist.

Yes, I am overestimating the importance of such, but because I can't get any read on zombie urist's playstyle other than what I see as one-sided answers and his lack of aggression, maybe because nobody is voting him? Also, when he stated that: "Do you have anything original to contribute" to others: ansontan2000, Phantom of the Library and Me amongst the rest, he asks the same thing later on in his posts makes me suspicious, as well as annoyed because that seems like we aren't giving suitable information. That, and if he was scumhunting, then he would give his thoughts in detail about everyone's posts, I guess.

I'm only acting on what I know and what I can read from what others posted.

---

Andrew425: Where are you and what do you see on all this?
Chaos Armor: Have you given up and are not posting at all?
Dariush: What is your view on this matter, could you also point out what our mistakes are?

I'm not looking for anyone to back me up if anyone is curious, it's just that day is almost over and they haven't posted recently.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Sign-Ups: 7/7, 2/2, 1/1
Post by: webadict on January 23, 2012, 10:42:08 pm

Chaos Armor has asked for a replacement. As such, he will be replaced by klingon13524.

Vote Count
------------------------
Andrew425 -
Phantom of The Library -
Tiruin - Dariush,
ansontan2000 - Andrew425, zombie urist,
zombie urist - Tiruin, ansontan2000,
klingon13524 - Jim Groovester,
Strategia - Phantom of The Library,
Jim Groovester -
Dariush -

Not Voting - klingon13524, Strategia,

Day Ends Tuesday 9 PM Central.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 1
Post by: klingon13524 on January 24, 2012, 01:49:10 am

Looks like I've got some drama to catch up on.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 1
Post by: klingon13524 on January 24, 2012, 02:09:28 am

ansontan2000... Who would you be least likely to investigate if you were a cop, and why?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 1
Post by: Jim Groovester on January 24, 2012, 02:29:24 am

Walls of text are awesome.

As a general point, the deeper you get into a broadsides to broadsides wall of text battle with someone, the less involved everyone else is going to be in the argument and the more trouble you'll have convincing everybody about your points, because they're simply not paying attention. Does arguing about every single niggling little detail help you prove that somebody is scum? Usually it doesn't, and it also makes your arguments less effective. Focus on the strongest points that demonstrate your argument, i.e., the most telling pieces of evidence that a player is scum. Have all your other points handy though, in case somebody asks you if you have anything else against your target.

If you really want to though, you can type up lengthy, scathing rebuttals. Don't be surprised if I don't read them though.

Quote from: Tiruin on January 23, 2012, 10:39:37 pm

Alright, to clarify: There are those that have been in multiple BMs before, zombie urist has been in one: BM XXVI to be exact; but as far as I know, Andrew425 has also been in BMs, albeit more in number than zombie urist.

Yes, I am overestimating the importance of such, but because I can't get any read on zombie urist's playstyle other than what I see as one-sided answers and his lack of aggression, maybe because nobody is voting him? Also, when he stated that: "Do you have anything original to contribute" to others: ansontan2000, Phantom of the Library and Me amongst the rest, he asks the same thing later on in his posts makes me suspicious, as well as annoyed because that seems like we aren't giving suitable information. That, and if he was scumhunting, then he would give his thoughts in detail about everyone's posts, I guess.

I'm only acting on what I know and what I can read from what others posted.

You've said all of this but I have no idea what point you're trying to make.

All these words, they are useless.

E.G., yes there have been players who have played more than one Beginner's Mafia. So... ... ... ... ...?

Quote from: klingon13524 on January 24, 2012, 02:09:28 am

ansontan2000... Who would you be least likely to investigate if you were a cop, and why?

Sorry, pal. It's too deep in the day for RVS stuff like this to fly.

You're going to need a real vote with real reasons, and preferably soon.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 1
Post by: klingon13524 on January 24, 2012, 03:37:25 am

My "real" reason is that I skimmed over the 12 pages of text, and it's the first day. But if you don't think that my vote is "real" enough, then unvote.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 1
Post by: Jim Groovester on January 24, 2012, 04:01:50 am

Where did you ever get the idea that you could skimp out on putting effort into your vote just because it's the first day?

It certainly wasn't from me.

Pay the game the attention it deserves and come back after you've done a thorough read of the thread.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 1
Post by: Dariush on January 24, 2012, 04:16:15 am

Quote from: Tiruin on January 23, 2012, 10:39:37 pm

Dariush: What is your view on this matter, could you also point out what our mistakes are?

I can only agree with Jim - WoTs are very, very bad. Very bad. Very, very bad. Yes. What I usually do in those cases is:

Tiruin, sum up your case against ZU, with quotes. Preferably back from when all this started.

zombie urist, sum up your case against Tiruin, with quotes. Preferably back from when all this started.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 1
Post by: Andrew425 on January 24, 2012, 05:12:38 am

Anston2000: I see my vote is still on you.

Anston

Quote

I have seen Andrew in a couple of Mafia games here through reading them. As he is more experienced than you and I, I thought he may be able to assume what we plan to do.

Is this an attempt at sucking up?  There are two Scum members, who do you think the other one is?

Quote from: Strategia on January 22, 2012, 11:02:18 pm

Quote from: Andrew425 on January 22, 2012, 07:55:44 pm

Strategia Welcome to the game! Let's say you are the doctor tonight, which one of us would you be most likely to save?

I'm not entirely sure. I haven't given much thought to the matter, but off the top of my head, possibly you or Tiruin. I'd have to do a thorough re-reading of the thread so far if I was to make an actual decision, though.

I don't know why people almost always answer that question with the questioner's name. Why wouldn't you try to save the IC? They are always a target regardless of how much pressure seems to be applied to them.

Tiruin

Quote

Andrew425: Where are you and what do you see on all this?

Quote

Why are you asking questions that could well be reasonably answered by seeing them logically? You haven't made a post since Dariush answered you, and it seems that you aren't focusing any effort on anyone else and are just waiting on ansontan2000 to clear himself up. You seem pretty lax in your posts, in my opinion, care to explain why?

Both of those questions are yours Tiruin. I will answer the first question first. I'm scratching my head watching this whole thing. I don't like how Phantom tried the bandwagon. I don't like how Strategia backs off when he has just a little bit of pressure.

Why am I asking questions that can be seen logically? I was trying to think of a decent RVS question that hadn't been done to death. Sorry i'm not posting twice a day but i've been travelling these last few days. As to my laxness? I don't see it, care to point it out?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 1
Post by: Tiruin on January 24, 2012, 07:45:55 am

(I hate it when you've already written an answer then the internet connection messes up. Thanks Jim  :-[)

zombie urist, why I believe you're scum:

Quote from: zombie urist on January 18, 2012, 03:00:07 pm

Quote from: stormtemplar on January 17, 2012, 11:36:45 pm

zombie urist: You are mafia, and accused mostly due to inactivity. How would you deflect this accusation?

Since every person's activity is available for everyone to see, the best way to avoid this sort of thing is to simply be active. Keep in mind that inactivity isn't necessarily indicative of scumminess. However, hesitance to scumhunting is.

Quote from: Tiruin on January 18, 2012, 08:30:37 am

I've been thinking with every word I type down here actually.

You had your vote on me the whole time by the way, or does double voting for one person have any effect?

Tiruin I don't think stormtemplar ever had his vote on you. In fact, you chose him in the RVS. And if you are really thinking with every word, then why did you do a triple post instead of taking more time and putting all that into one?

Quote from: zombie urist on January 18, 2012, 07:42:42 pm

Andrew425 and stormtemplar Instead of copying and pasting what other people said into your quotes, scroll down to the post itself and press the 'insert quote' on the top right corner and delete the irrelevant parts. This makes it easier for us to see who you're responding to.

Stormtemplar you didn't acknowledge my response. Why not?

Here was the first, your statement did not seem at all like a question, then you kept on questioning without clarification until you dropped him a vote.

Quote from: zombie urist on January 18, 2012, 08:55:11 pm

unvote
stormtemplar Are you purposely ignoring me?

---

Quote from: zombie urist on January 23, 2012, 02:29:09 am

Quote from: Andrew425 on January 22, 2012, 07:55:44 pm

Quote from: zombie urist on January 22, 2012, 05:34:13 pm

Quote from: Andrew425 on January 20, 2012, 06:12:21 pm

Quote from: zombie urist on January 20, 2012, 11:45:25 am

Why are you being so careless with your posts. A preview would have made it really obvious that something was wrong with your quotes.

Why are you nitpicking?

Andrew425 I'm being thorough. Scum aren't going to reveal themselves. You're deflecting my inquiries. Why?

Deflecting your inquiries? I'm asking you why you are nitpicking the fact the he messed up his post. It seems like you're grasping for straws. Find an actual argument instead of that bs.

Unvote Ok this is the problem when you don't quote completely. I thought you were the one that messed up the post when instead it was actually Ansontan. I'll let him respond before I continue further with these arguments. The only way to find scum is to question everything. He already made a pretty obvious mistake, so I'm just pressuring him more.

However it does feel strange that you're calling me out on his behalf. All your posts are very short and mostly consist of you asking other people questions. Are you going to do anything other than just ask questions?
...
ansontan2000 My still standing questions to you: why didn't you post like you said and why didn't you check that previous post you made before submitting?

One problem here, you misstated yourself. You voted Andrew425 to get an answer or just because he asked you a simple question, then stated it like he was at fault for not quoting completely (ansontan2000's post); you were the first to post before him though and by that, I'd think you would already know what you were saying.

Then you blame Andrew for messing up the post. And then you pressure by...commenting on a formatting mistake? Followed by your vote?


Your voting pattern was: Tiruin>stormtemplar>Andrew425>ansontan2000

Most of which were just to find answers to your own questions, most were with the wrong intention too. Making it seem like scumhunting with a blunt stick-- very hard to see the mark, you are also just giving short helpful answers that may help in scumhunting for everyone in discussion. But to me, you aren't personally tracking anyone nor giving who you exactly think is the scummiest.

Spoiler: On that OMGUS and Chaos Armor (click to show/hide)

Also, that OMGUS you stated

Quote from: zombie urist on January 23, 2012, 11:55:08 am

Your entire post reads like an OMGUS, especially answering a question with the exact same question. The only reason that you're voting me is that I haven't asked any RVS questions. It looks like you've given up on Chaos Armor and are looking for a new target. What's wrong with my scumhunting?

One, your vote was made due to a mistake in understanding. No pressure there.
Two, What exact same question? What did you ask that I repeated? I'm not only voting on you because of the lack of RVS but the lack of any read at all. Read the blunt stick above on why.

Also, before it was announced, I did not give up on Chaos Armor. His whole gameplay was on 'I don't know how to answer' and kept it like that. How would anyone gather any info from that? Other than either scum or newbie?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 1
Post by: Dariush on January 24, 2012, 08:48:32 am

Actually, his behavior in those posts looks more like overzealous townie than scum. Pushing everywhere at once, trying not to appear non-thorough, et cetera, et cetera. Going into a kinda meta territory, it doesn't look like he is being advised by someone experienced (I'm looking at you, Toaster).

But still I want to hear his side of things first.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 1
Post by: Strategia on January 24, 2012, 12:57:33 pm

Quote from: Andrew425 on January 24, 2012, 05:12:38 am

Quote from: Strategia on January 22, 2012, 11:02:18 pm

Quote from: Andrew425 on January 22, 2012, 07:55:44 pm

Strategia Welcome to the game! Let's say you are the doctor tonight, which one of us would you be most likely to save?

I'm not entirely sure. I haven't given much thought to the matter, but off the top of my head, possibly you or Tiruin. I'd have to do a thorough re-reading of the thread so far if I was to make an actual decision, though.

I don't know why people almost always answer that question with the questioner's name. Why wouldn't you try to save the IC? They are always a target regardless of how much pressure seems to be applied to them.

It did feel a little like sucking up when I wrote it, but that's the truth. When I wrote that, I was convinced Phantom and zombie were scum, I didn't have much of an opinion on Chaos Armor, and I'd apparently forgotten all about ansontan somehow. I didn't think anyone would really go after the ICs, although if one got NK'd, I might start protecting the other just in case. Then again, there are two ICs, and there's always the chance one of them is actually with the mafia..... It's a moot point though, since the only power I have is apparently the power to make myself look like a scumbag.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 1
Post by: Jim Groovester on January 24, 2012, 01:05:43 pm

Quote from: Tiruin on January 24, 2012, 07:45:55 am

Most of which were just to find answers to your own questions, most were with the wrong intention too. Making it seem like scumhunting with a blunt stick-- very hard to see the mark, you are also just giving short helpful answers that may help in scumhunting for everyone in discussion. But to me, you aren't personally tracking anyone nor giving who you exactly think is the scummiest.

He's getting answers to his questions (which is what he's supposed to do), but the questions are bad or wrong somehow, and he's also holding back who he really suspects. Or so you claim.

As far as I can tell, your argument against him seems to be that he's doing everything he should, but you just don't like it.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Sign-Ups: 7/7, 2/2, 1/1
Post by: webadict on January 24, 2012, 03:11:01 pm

Vote Count
------------------------
Andrew425 -
Phantom of The Library -
Tiruin - Dariush,
ansontan2000 - Andrew425, zombie urist, klingon13524,
zombie urist - Tiruin, ansontan2000,
klingon13524 - Jim Groovester,
Strategia - Phantom of The Library,
Jim Groovester -
Dariush -

Not Voting - Strategia,

Day Ends Tuesday 9 PM Central.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 1
Post by: ansontan2000 on January 24, 2012, 06:04:39 pm

Quote from: klingon13524 on January 24, 2012, 02:09:28 am

ansontan2000... Who would you be least likely to investigate if you were a cop, and why?

Tiruin, because he has been very actively scumhunting and taking on Zombie.
Also, don't you think it's a bit too late to RVS? The day is about to finish. I'm finding it slightly ironic that all my votes are from RVS pressure.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 1
Post by: Chaos Armor on January 24, 2012, 06:14:03 pm

This is my BAH! post of a sorts.

My reasons for asking for a replacement: First my personality conflicts with Mafia in general. I do not like to insult people and have a hard time doing it... a very hard time. Second I do not find any enjoyment in the game. This is a big factor as; if I'm not finding enjoyment in something and it is not necessary then I tend to be... lazy about doing it. Third I have problems expressing my views in writing. Though I can do it on paper I usually write a lot of stuff. And since this game is not enjoyable to me I don't want to write all of that stuff. Also to go along with this I would rather spend my time thinking of other things instead of how many flaws I can get this player on.

Good luck everyone, may the force be with you,
-Chaos Armor

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 1
Post by: zombie urist on January 24, 2012, 09:58:06 pm

Andrew please spell ansontan2000's name correctly.

Quote from: ansontan2000 on January 23, 2012, 05:55:30 am

Sorry, it's Chinese new year and the past two days have been full of running around trying to prepare the house for the family.
Anyways,
Unvote, zombie urist: Where do I start? Oh, yes. First of all, this is NOT a discussion about the way to make your posts. This is a game of mafia.
Second, your continuous poking of me leads to me believing that you have absolutely NO lead at all on who is scum. Care to try and actually scumhunt mate? As Tiruin very kindly pointed out with his large spoiler, you have not been RVSing at all and have instead been poking at people, trying to nitpick, snipe, and bandwagon. Don't prod lurkers. Even beforehand you spent an awfully large amount of time poking stormtemplar. You asking why i'm being so forceful is completely irrelevant. Remember that this is not a friendly discussion.

I'm not discussing how to make posts. When you make such an obvious mistake, it looks like you're not being careful with your posts. Most of your posts are short, answers to other people's questions.   I think this is an example of active lurking, posting enough to get noticed, but not having much substance. This post itself is mainly a summary of what Tiruin's issues with me were. There's a huge difference in being 'not friendly' and 'forceful' and I don't like that you're dismissing your demeanor as irrelevant.

Quote from: ansontan2000 on January 24, 2012, 06:04:39 pm

Quote from: klingon13524 on January 24, 2012, 02:09:28 am

ansontan2000... Who would you be least likely to investigate if you were a cop, and why?

Tiruin, because he has been very actively scumhunting and taking on Zombie.
Also, don't you think it's a bit too late to RVS? The day is about to finish. I'm finding it slightly ironic that all my votes are from RVS pressure.

Simple explanation, with a repeat of Jim's words. I simply don't see you contributing much to the discussion.

Quote from: Dariush on January 24, 2012, 04:16:15 am

zombie urist, sum up your case against Tiruin, with quotes. Preferably back from when all this started.

Tiruin has been misrepresenting my arguments. Here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=98714.msg2927313#msg2927313) I honestly can't tell how he goes from premise to premise.
Also a significant portion of his arguments are repeats of Jim's and other people. This (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=98714.msg2925217#msg2925217) is an example;
first part is a repeat of Jim saying that you shouldn't rally the town to vote with you, the question to anson on why he didn't post I mentioned in my post on the previous page. After the PPE, he pretty much covers the exact same thing Jim does one post above.

Tiruin: Let's stop on the 'real game' issue. It's about as effective as previous arguments with Chaos Armor, no offense. Just to clarify: my vote on Andrew was a COMPLETE MISTAKE on my part. 

Quote

I'm not only voting on you because of the lack of RVS but the lack of any read at all.

So you're saying that you're voting me because you can't tell my alignment?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 1
Post by: Phantom of The Library on January 24, 2012, 11:23:13 pm

Quote from: Andrew425 on January 24, 2012, 05:12:38 am

I don't like how Phantom tried the bandwagon.

Please explain to me how I "tried the bandwagon", what does that even mean?  Are you trying to say that I started one or that I hopped on one?  I don't recall ever doing anything which could be mistaken for either one.

Also why are you not linking many of your quotes?

---

Strategia, You know what?  I think you're just using the last part of my post as an excuse, for all we know you could be a night-owl and that's normal time for you to be awake. 

Why backing off of everything so easily?  Now that you've been found out are you afraid that a mob is going to come after you and lynch you?  I'm the only person voting for you so you can't be that afraid unless you have something to hide.

All you're doing now is apologizing and trying to fade back into the shadows after your mistake. 

I asked you to defend yourself not make a bunch of apologies and try to weasel your way out of my sight Mister Mafioso.

---

Tiruin I would also like you to clarify what your arguments against zombie urist means, as is it seems to me that you are saying that you're voting him because he hasn't given a definite opinion on who is scum.  Please tell me how this is scummy.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 1
Post by: Tiruin on January 25, 2012, 12:19:15 am

His voting pattern, I see it as erratic. It's like using your only weapon to find scum and throwing it around like a threat. From what I see, a townie will not do such unless he/she needs specific information or finds something really wrong with what is stated.

I voted him because of so, I can't see the details on his scumhunting. The better players, I guess, do.

@zombie urist: I'm not misrepresenting them, as I see it. I'm giving my honest answer on what I see on them, just like you did to mine. That created walls of text which I now know is a mistake. Yes, I'm voting you because of that. I'm unsure if your questioning marks you as 'town that wants to help hunt scum' or 'scum that wants to know the plans of town'. This is where I'm stuck on.

The second link you made? The one before the horizontal rule was there before Jim posted, I went around and read the whole thing again and typed it down. It's just that part of what I said coincides with what Jim says so I left it there, unedited and placed a PPE before that specific part.

Quote from: Strategia on January 24, 2012, 12:57:33 pm

Then again, there are two ICs, and there's always the chance one of them is actually with the mafia..... It's a moot point though, since the only power I have is apparently the power to make myself look like a scumbag.

You're admitting that your posts make you look like scum? Or are you saying that we aren't targeting the ICs enough to know if they are scum or not?

---

Spoiler: To Chaos Armor (click to show/hide)

Insults or anything said in Mafia are only restricted to Mafia.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 1
Post by: klingon13524 on January 25, 2012, 03:40:41 am

Quote from: Chaos Armor on January 24, 2012, 06:14:03 pm

This is my BAH! post of a sorts.

My reasons for asking for a replacement: First my personality conflicts with Mafia in general. I do not like to insult people and have a hard time doing it... a very hard time. Second I do not find any enjoyment in the game. This is a big factor as; if I'm not finding enjoyment in something and it is not necessary then I tend to be... lazy about doing it. Third I have problems expressing my views in writing. Though I can do it on paper I usually write a lot of stuff. And since this game is not enjoyable to me I don't want to write all of that stuff. Also to go along with this I would rather spend my time thinking of other things instead of how many flaws I can get this player on.

Good luck everyone, may the force be with you,
-Chaos Armor

And I'm not really enjoying it either, I'll probably end up asking for a replacement.

-New Chaos Armor

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Sign-Ups: 7/7, 2/2, 1/1
Post by: webadict on January 25, 2012, 08:28:29 am

The Sheriff stoops over his drink, covering it from the storm that raged outside. He laughs again.

"My wife... can you believe it?" He picks up his glass and almost throws it against the floor. He manages to catch himself, though. "They thought my wife stole all of that gold. So, I went to her, and I asked her if she did, and she looked me square in the eye and said no. And she wasn't lying."

He takes a drink from his glass. He begins rambling about his wife for a while.

After some time, he returns to his story. "So, anyway, I figured there's no way she coulda stole that gold, right? I start thinking about which of the other 8 it could've been. I ask some questions around town about the eight's whereabouts."

"And when I get home, there she was. Dead." He pauses for a long time.

"But, at least I knew she wasn't the thief."

Vote Count
------------------------
Andrew425 -
Phantom of The Library -
Tiruin - Dariush,
ansontan2000 - Andrew425, zombie urist, klingon13524,
zombie urist - Tiruin, ansontan2000,
klingon13524 - Jim Groovester,
Strategia - Phantom of The Library,
Jim Groovester -
Dariush -

Not Voting - Strategia,

Day Ends Tuesday 9 PM Central.

ansontan2000 has been lynched!

ansontan2000 was a Townie.

It is now Night. klingon13524 has asked for a replacement.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Night 1
Post by: webadict on January 29, 2012, 08:55:29 pm

I snap back awake from my stupor. The sheriff had decided to go off on a tangent about cows or horses or something. I wasn't paying attention. Apparently, though, I had spilled my drink on me. I quickly order another one, and the sheriff, noticing my newfound alertness, continues right back into his story.

They had found the owner of the knife, one of the neighbors, and brought him into questioning. There wasn't much evidence he did anything, but they searched his house for the gold anyhow.

"I knew what it really was," says the Sheriff. "T'was a warning. 'Stay outta this business.'" He looks around at the other tables. One person sat in the corner alone and, upon seeing the Sheriff's eyes, nodded and raised his glass to him. The Sheriff politely raises his back.

He starts talking about the local politics of the area. The mayor. The trader. It was another tangent. I couldn't stand it, so I start looking at one of the pictures on the wall...

klingon13524 has been killed!

klingon13524 was a Townie.

Vote Count
------------------------
Andrew425 -
Phantom of The Library -
Tiruin -
zombie urist -
Strategia -
Jim Groovester -
Dariush -

Not Voting - Strategia, Andrew425, zombie urist, Phantom of The Library, Jim Groovester, Tiruin, Dariush,

Day Ends Wednesday 9 PM Central.

It is now Day.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Night 1
Post by: Andrew425 on January 30, 2012, 04:04:19 pm

I guess I will start then.

Phantom: What do you think about last night's kill?
Tiruin: If you were the cop who would you have investigated last night?

Zombie Urist What is up with your nitpicking? Am I not allowed to spell off memory other then scroll through the pages seeing if I spelt everyone's name right?

StrategiaYou didn't vote at the end of the day. It's ok to mislynch people. It is not ok to not vote. That scummy behaviour

Jim You actually made it to the second day. How often does this happen? How will you play differently now that you have lived this long?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Night 1
Post by: Reverie on January 30, 2012, 04:13:41 pm

Wubs, the thread title still says night one... *Poof*

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 2
Post by: Strategia on January 30, 2012, 04:54:17 pm

Quote from: Phantom of The Library on January 24, 2012, 11:23:13 pm

Why backing off of everything so easily?  Now that you've been found out are you afraid that a mob is going to come after you and lynch you?  I'm the only person voting for you so you can't be that afraid unless you have something to hide.

All you're doing now is apologizing and trying to fade back into the shadows after your mistake. 

I asked you to defend yourself not make a bunch of apologies and try to weasel your way out of my sight Mister Mafioso.

I'd jumped the gun by accusing you on flimsy evidence, I felt that I had two options; one, keep pressing with what I had (not much), aggressively going after you with no support, and thus make myself look more and more like scum (at least, that's what I'd think if I was viewing this from an outside perspective), or two, backing off of you, which I felt needed some justification as to why I was so aggressive initially in the first place. I am trying to fade back into the shadows somewhat, mainly to see how I do when I'm not trying to railroad someone. If you're looking for my defence, I would like to point you here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=98714.msg2924910#msg2924910), where I outline my reasons for calling you scum. If you want more reasons why I backed off, in addition to what I already said, Jim undercutting my arguments here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=98714.msg2925041#msg2925041) forced some perspective on me. I had an IC tell me I needed to get my facts straight, which made me feel that pressing the attack might not be a very good decision.

Quote from: Andrew425 on January 30, 2012, 04:04:19 pm

StrategiaYou didn't vote at the end of the day. It's ok to mislynch people. It is not ok to not vote. That scummy behaviour

After I'd made my last post, I planned to re-read the thread again before continuing. Then when I woke up, I'd found the day had ended, and then the night lasted the better part of a week, so I got distracted by other things. (I still haven't re-read the thread.) Unvoting Phantom was a mistake (but I'll wait until I have good reason this time before voting him again), part of my back-off-and-reconsider plan. I hadn't bothered to translate "9PM Central" to a date and time on my end yet, which is why the night snuck up on me.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 2
Post by: Phantom of The Library on January 30, 2012, 08:55:44 pm

Andrew45: I have no clue why they would NK klingon, he was even asking for replacement.  It doesn't make any sense to me, maybe they didn't know who to NK and decided on the player who wouldn't draw any suspicions towards anybody, maybe they wanted WIFOM to result?  Those are the best guesses I have.

Also, why have you not answered my questions from Day 1?

Quote from: Phantom of The Library on January 24, 2012, 11:23:13 pm

Quote from: Andrew425 on January 24, 2012, 05:12:38 am

I don't like how Phantom tried the bandwagon.

Please explain to me how I "tried the bandwagon", what does that even mean?  Are you trying to say that I started one or that I hopped on one?  I don't recall ever doing anything which could be mistaken for either one.

Also why are you not linking many of your quotes?

---

Strategia

Quote from: Strategia on January 30, 2012, 04:54:17 pm

I am trying to fade back into the shadows somewhat, mainly to see how I do when I'm not trying to railroad someone. If you're looking for my defence, I would like to point you here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=98714.msg2924910#msg2924910), where I outline my reasons for calling you scum.

I did see your defense. You redacted it as soon as I called you out and attempted to hide instead of presenting actual logical arguments to prove the suspicions you say that you still hold.  I was under the impression that avoiding attention was something that you and your fellow scum did when you weren't feeling so confident; not something that town did when they make a mistake.

---

MOD/ICs It is possible for the town IC's to be scum, right?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 2
Post by: Toaster on January 30, 2012, 08:59:40 pm

Quote from: Phantom of The Library on January 30, 2012, 08:55:44 pm

MOD/ICs It is possible for the town IC's to be scum, right?

Yes.  There's a non-playing scum IC (me) who advises the scum team, since a playing IC may or may not be in there to advise scum.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Night 1
Post by: zombie urist on January 31, 2012, 01:35:37 am

Quote from: Andrew425 on January 30, 2012, 04:04:19 pm

Zombie Urist What is up with your nitpicking? Am I not allowed to spell off memory other then scroll through the pages seeing if I spelt everyone's name right?

I just find it annoying. Why are you being so defensive?

Quote

It's ok to mislynch people.

Is this something you really want to say?

Quote from: Tiruin on January 25, 2012, 12:19:15 am

zombie urist: I'm not misrepresenting them, as I see it. I'm giving my honest answer on what I see on them, just like you did to mine. That created walls of text which I now know is a mistake. Yes, I'm voting you because of that. I'm unsure if your questioning marks you as 'town that wants to help hunt scum' or 'scum that wants to know the plans of town'. This is where I'm stuck on.

I think misinterpret is the better word then. What happened to

Quote from: Tiruin on January 23, 2012, 01:13:03 am

We do not agree on who to lynch first unless we are sure of who is who. Or at least have a good feel on it.

Strategia So you backed off of Phantom because you didn't want to look like scum? If that's the case, why are you so afraid people are going to go after you?

Phantom Do you think any of the IC's are scum? If you were mafia, would you have thought to NK Klingon?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Night 1
Post by: Jim Groovester on January 31, 2012, 02:18:16 am

Quote from: Andrew425 on January 30, 2012, 04:04:19 pm

Phantom: What do you think about last night's kill?

Why are you asking? You're not a stranger to Beginner's Mafias, so you know that generally it's a bad idea to look into the nightkill for reads.

Quote from: Andrew425 on January 30, 2012, 04:04:19 pm

Jim You actually made it to the second day. How often does this happen? How will you play differently now that you have lived this long?

It's happened maybe once or twice. Usually because Toaster tells the scum team that it's a good idea to keep me around for longer, so that I have more time to teach everybody before being dead stops me, since that's the whole point of the game.

I'm not going to play any differently, aside from being able to actually play.

Quote from: zombie urist on January 31, 2012, 01:35:37 am

Quote

It's ok to mislynch people.

Is this something you really want to say?

He'd be repeating me if he did.

Mislynches are acceptable only if there were very good arguments for why that player was scum going into a lynch. You have to keep in mind that lynches don't just remove players from the game, they also investigate targets. If the town does their job and does it well, and they still end up mislynching somebody, then that narrows down their list of suspects to a hopefully tighter band of people.

Town gets mislynched all the time. It's not that big of a deal, if the arguments were good and it gets you closer to finding scum.

Quote from: zombie urist on January 31, 2012, 01:35:37 am

Phantom Do you think any of the IC's are scum?

Curious question. Do you have reason to think any of the ICs are scum?

It's weird you'd ask him a question about if he thinks two specific people are scum, instead of what his scumpicks are in general.

Strategia, scum picks and reasons?

Tiruin, there's a bunch of things I want responses to from Day 1, but mostly this:

Quote from: Jim Groovester on January 24, 2012, 01:05:43 pm

Quote from: Tiruin on January 24, 2012, 07:45:55 am

Most of which were just to find answers to your own questions, most were with the wrong intention too. Making it seem like scumhunting with a blunt stick-- very hard to see the mark, you are also just giving short helpful answers that may help in scumhunting for everyone in discussion. But to me, you aren't personally tracking anyone nor giving who you exactly think is the scummiest.

He's getting answers to his questions (which is what he's supposed to do), but the questions are bad or wrong somehow, and he's also holding back who he really suspects. Or so you claim.

As far as I can tell, your argument against him seems to be that he's doing everything he should, but you just don't like it.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 2
Post by: Tiruin on January 31, 2012, 05:46:12 am

Quote from: Jim Groovester on January 31, 2012, 02:18:16 am

Tiruin, there's a bunch of things I want responses to from Day 1, but mostly this:

Quote from: Jim Groovester on January 24, 2012, 01:05:43 pm

Quote from: Tiruin on January 24, 2012, 07:45:55 am

Most of which were just to find answers to your own questions, most were with the wrong intention too. Making it seem like scumhunting with a blunt stick-- very hard to see the mark, you are also just giving short helpful answers that may help in scumhunting for everyone in discussion. But to me, you aren't personally tracking anyone nor giving who you exactly think is the scummiest.

He's getting answers to his questions (which is what he's supposed to do), but the questions are bad or wrong somehow, and he's also holding back who he really suspects. Or so you claim.

As far as I can tell, your argument against him seems to be that he's doing everything he should, but you just don't like it.

Quote from: Tiruin on January 25, 2012, 12:19:15 am

His voting pattern, I see it as erratic. It's like using your only weapon to find scum and throwing it around like a threat. From what I see, a townie will not do such unless he/she needs specific information or finds something really wrong with what is stated.

I voted him because of so, I can't see the details on his scumhunting. The better players, I guess, do.

Andrew: If I was a cop? Phantom, because other than zombie, he has a good hold on what he says, I'd try to make sure that those who are scumhunting aren't scum themselves.

Sorry Jim if I'm replying with a quote, that is what I see as the answer to your question. I'm busy with many things right now (RL).

I'll reply in a few hours.

zombie urist: I don't see Andrew being defensive. It's the spelling of a name.

You're asking quite a one-sided question there, what would you hope to gain from the knowledge of a NK?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 2
Post by: ansontan2000 on January 31, 2012, 07:00:05 am

BAH!

Wells, it was fun. Kinda stupid that i was lynched by RVS votes. Have fun guys, and DIE YOU FUCKING GOLD NABBING SCUMBAGS!

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Night 1
Post by: Dariush on January 31, 2012, 08:11:15 am

Quote from: Andrew425 on January 30, 2012, 04:04:19 pm

StrategiaYou didn't vote at the end of the day. It's ok to mislynch people. It is not ok to not vote. That scummy behaviour

What, really? That's the entire basis for your vote that you can scrap up at the second day?

Quote from: Andrew425 on January 30, 2012, 04:04:19 pm

Jim You actually made it to the second day. How often does this happen? How will you play differently now that you have lived this long?

Kinda ninja'd by Jim, but this is horrific WIFOM and stupid almost-RVS question to accompany it. Don't do it.

Quote from: zombie urist on January 31, 2012, 01:35:37 am

If you were mafia, would you have thought to NK Klingon?

Don't rolefish.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 2
Post by: Phantom of The Library on January 31, 2012, 09:17:14 pm

Quote from: zombie urist on January 31, 2012, 01:35:37 am

Phantom Do you think any of the IC's are scum? If you were mafia, would you have thought to NK Klingon?

I don't think one way or the other, I was just asking if it is a possibility, and it's one that no one seems to have considered yet. 
I really don't know if I would have NK'd Klingon if I were scum, as I said before I have no idea why they did it.

Why are you asking such pointed and fishy-ing questions?  I can't tell if you're just investigating or if you're trying to put suspicion on me or something else. 

Either way you're not doing it well.

---

Tiruin Why weren't you answering questions before now?  I can understand you not answering in full right now because you're busy, but what is your reason before this?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 2
Post by: Jim Groovester on January 31, 2012, 10:37:33 pm

Extension. This day is taking off a little slow.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 2
Post by: Phantom of The Library on January 31, 2012, 10:48:15 pm

Extension agreed.  There's no way we're going to get done by tomorrow night. 

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 2
Post by: Andrew425 on January 31, 2012, 11:11:26 pm

Quote from: Dariush on January 31, 2012, 08:11:15 am

Quote from: Andrew425 on January 30, 2012, 04:04:19 pm

StrategiaYou didn't vote at the end of the day. It's ok to mislynch people. It is not ok to not vote. That scummy behaviour

What, really? That's the entire basis for your vote that you can scrap up at the second day?

Quote from: Andrew425 on January 30, 2012, 04:04:19 pm

Jim You actually made it to the second day. How often does this happen? How will you play differently now that you have lived this long?

Kinda ninja'd by Jim, but this is horrific WIFOM and stupid almost-RVS question to accompany it. Don't do it.

Dariush Every time you post, you criticize unfairly. If my post does nothing more then get the topics rolling then at least it's a start. All you have done thus far in the game has been to stop any sort of conversation from materializing. That is the scummiest thing to do, making it so the scum don't even have to work for a victory. I'm calling you out scum.

Quote from: Jim Groovester on January 31, 2012, 02:18:16 am

Quote from: Andrew425 on January 30, 2012, 04:04:19 pm

Phantom: What do you think about last night's kill?

Why are you asking? You're not a stranger to Beginner's Mafias, so you know that generally it's a bad idea to look into the nightkill for reads.

I haven't talked much to him and I was curious, I'm not really looking for what he says but how he says it.

Quote from: zombie urist on January 31, 2012, 01:35:37 am

Quote from: Andrew425 on January 30, 2012, 04:04:19 pm

Zombie Urist What is up with your nitpicking? Am I not allowed to spell off memory other then scroll through the pages seeing if I spelt everyone's name right?

I just find it annoying. Why are you being so defensive?

Quote

It's ok to mislynch people.

Is this something you really want to say?

Jim answered the second question so I will focus on the first. I think you need to figure out the difference between asking questions and being defensive, right now all you're doing is throwing up a wall accusing others, why do you respond to questions like that?

Quote from: Phantom of The Library on January 30, 2012, 08:55:44 pm

Andrew45: I have no clue why they would NK klingon, he was even asking for replacement.  It doesn't make any sense to me, maybe they didn't know who to NK and decided on the player who wouldn't draw any suspicions towards anybody, maybe they wanted WIFOM to result?  Those are the best guesses I have.

Also, why have you not answered my questions from Day 1?

Quote from: Phantom of The Library on January 24, 2012, 11:23:13 pm

Quote from: Andrew425 on January 24, 2012, 05:12:38 am

I don't like how Phantom tried the bandwagon.

Please explain to me how I "tried the bandwagon", what does that even mean?  Are you trying to say that I started one or that I hopped on one?  I don't recall ever doing anything which could be mistaken for either one.

Also why are you not linking many of your quotes?

Strategia had 2 votes on him. You come out swinging with your wall of text voting for him. People give you crap for it and you back off soon after.

And I don't always link my quotes because sometimes it's easier to just copy paste and throw quote tags around then inserting the quote. Or if its too far back


Also Extend

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Night 1
Post by: zombie urist on February 01, 2012, 12:25:38 am

Extension

Quote from: Jim Groovester on January 31, 2012, 02:18:16 am

Quote from: zombie urist on January 31, 2012, 01:35:37 am

Phantom Do you think any of the IC's are scum?

Curious question. Do you have reason to think any of the ICs are scum?
It's weird you'd ask him a question about if he thinks two specific people are scum, instead of what his scumpicks are in general.

I have no reason to suspect either you or Daruish of being scum. I'm curious since in his asking, he seems to have some reason of suspecting the ICs.

Quote from: Tiruin on January 31, 2012, 05:46:12 am

zombie urist: I don't see Andrew being defensive. It's the spelling of a name.

I do. And it's not just this one incident. I just wanted him to pay more attention to spelling in the future, which only really bothers me personally. But he goes on to continue defending his actions instead of fixing something that's pretty trivial.

Quote from: Phantom of The Library on January 31, 2012, 09:17:14 pm

Why are you asking such pointed and fishy-ing questions?  I can't tell if you're just investigating or if you're trying to put suspicion on me or something else. 

Do you really feel this way or are you just repeating what Daruish said? As I said above, when you asked whether an IC could be scum it felt like you saw something scummy in their behavior.

Andrew425: Your attitude this entire game seems to be about defending yourself and criticizing anyone who picks on you. You're not only being defensive when I'm questioning you. You tend to respond to questions against you with questions back. This seems to be an attempt to deflect attention away from yourself and not in a good way. Two quick examples are here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=98714.msg2927902#msg2927902) and here. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=98714.msg2924491#msg2924491) Normally, asking questions isn't scummy, but you don't seem to be putting much thought into your questions and as such, I think your questions are also attempts to avoid having the spotlight on you.

I'm interested in what you think. Who do you think are the most scummy after Daruish?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 2
Post by: Tiruin on February 01, 2012, 06:24:05 am

Jim Groovester: Alright, based on your answer I guess that isn't what you wanted.

Other than that (the quote), he gets irked by spelling and formatting, not helpful towards finding scum, which is present above. And he mostly messed up his voting by missing crucial parts of people's posts in the first day, being quick to respond without re-reading if what he was asking was exactly what was meant. I don't think a real townie would do that.

Still, zombie urist, ICs can be scum, why should you not suspect them for any reason? Does their being an IC give them a free town pass?

Also, he just asked you about nitpicking. What is so defensive yourself there?

Phantom of The Library: I didn't see any questions directed to me at all. If you mean by Jim's or the rest, then I see I've answered them in my posts. Unless those were not the answers they, or you wanted, quote it for me and I'll answer them to the best of my ability.

Andrew425: Now you're just hitting the IC because he is giving advice. The ICs are impartial sources of knowledge, they won't abuse their status to throw away a scumhunt on them, if they are scum.

Also, I'm wondering why exactly you posed a question like that to me, rolefishing just like zombie urist?

Extend!

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 2
Post by: Tiruin on February 01, 2012, 06:27:34 am

EBWOP

Quote from: Tiruin on February 01, 2012, 06:24:05 am

What is so defensive yourself there?

> Why so defensive yourself there?

Also, 504 gateway error. Almost hit the post button again.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 2
Post by: Dariush on February 01, 2012, 06:54:50 am

Quote from: Andrew425 on January 31, 2012, 11:11:26 pm

Dariush Every time you post, you criticize unfairly. If my post does nothing more then get the topics rolling then at least it's a start. All you have done thus far in the game has been to stop any sort of conversation from materializing. That is the scummiest thing to do, making it so the scum don't even have to work for a victory. I'm calling you out scum.

I'm an IC. My task is pointing out your (plural) mistakes for which you'll get lynched in any serious game and figuring out whether you're scum or not for making them. Besides, I fail to see how critisizing your argument (that single stupid-ass one) for Strategia vote constitute 'stopping any sort of conversation from materializing'.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 2
Post by: Phantom of The Library on February 01, 2012, 05:07:52 pm

Andrew45

Quote from: Andrew425 on January 31, 2012, 11:11:26 pm

Strategia had 2 votes on him. You come out swinging with your wall of text voting for him. People give you crap for it and you back off soon after.

And I don't always link my quotes because sometimes it's easier to just copy paste and throw quote tags around then inserting the quote. Or if its too far back

First of all: Strategia's votes were left over from stormtemplar and everyone almost immediately reassigned them, I was the only person voting for him. 

Second: I fully explained my reasons for attacking him, and he was the one to make the first strike.

Third: I never backed off, in case you haven't been reading my posts, I have been continually attacking him since, perhaps you're confusing me for him, as he's the one who backed off as soon as people started calling him out.

I asked you a simple question and you attacked me on three false premises, moreover you attacked and voted for Dariush when he was just doing his job.  Explain yourself, I fail to see how you're going to though.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 2
Post by: Andrew425 on February 01, 2012, 06:36:23 pm

Quote from: Dariush on February 01, 2012, 06:54:50 am

Quote from: Andrew425 on January 31, 2012, 11:11:26 pm

Dariush Every time you post, you criticize unfairly. If my post does nothing more then get the topics rolling then at least it's a start. All you have done thus far in the game has been to stop any sort of conversation from materializing. That is the scummiest thing to do, making it so the scum don't even have to work for a victory. I'm calling you out scum.

I'm an IC. My task is pointing out your (plural) mistakes for which you'll get lynched in any serious game and figuring out whether you're scum or not for making them. Besides, I fail to see how critisizing your argument (that single stupid-ass one) for Strategia vote constitute 'stopping any sort of conversation from materializing'.

Ok, many times when I asked a question you piped up and said the question was stupid. At least I was talking instead of popping in just to look active.

Quote

Just making up shit as you go is not the way to go. You should ask questions that can at least be plausibly answered, not simply imitate activeness to make sure you aren't going to get lynched as a lurker.

Quote

Because your question goes along the lines of 'you can choose to lynch the first person to sign up or the last, whom will you choose?'. There is equal probability of cop claiming and scum counter-fakeclaiming and vice versa. There are far too many other things to consider to simplify the situation to such a question.

Everybody knows that RVS is a crapshoot to begin with so why when somebody asks an out of the box question do you rain on his parade? Because you're scum and you want the game to go your way.

Quote from: zombie urist on February 01, 2012, 12:25:38 am

Andrew425: Your attitude this entire game seems to be about defending yourself and criticizing anyone who picks on you. You're not only being defensive when I'm questioning you. You tend to respond to questions against you with questions back. This seems to be an attempt to deflect attention away from yourself and not in a good way. Two quick examples are here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=98714.msg2927902#msg2927902) and here. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=98714.msg2924491#msg2924491) Normally, asking questions isn't scummy, but you don't seem to be putting much thought into your questions and as such, I think your questions are also attempts to avoid having the spotlight on you.

I'm interested in what you think. Who do you think are the most scummy after Daruish?

Of course i'm defending myself when someone asks questions. That's the point of the game. And yes I think its a good idea to ask questions back otherwise all you get to do is try to pick apart my statements without making any of your own. As for who is the scummiest after Daruish? You and Phantom seem to be next in line.

Quote from: Tiruin on February 01, 2012, 06:24:05 am

Andrew425: Now you're just hitting the IC because he is giving advice. The ICs are impartial sources of knowledge, they won't abuse their status to throw away a scumhunt on them, if they are scum.
Also, I'm wondering why exactly you posed a question like that to me, rolefishing just like zombie urist?

I'm hitting an IC because I think he's scummy. Is that your only reason for voting me? Because you know they can be scum aswell.
It's not a rolefishing question. It's me asking you who you think is the scummiest.



As for Phantoms question, i'm going to go back and reread. I will answer your statements later

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 2
Post by: Phantom of The Library on February 01, 2012, 06:50:32 pm

Quote from: Andrew425 on February 01, 2012, 06:36:23 pm

Of course i'm defending myself when someone asks questions. That's the point of the game. And yes I think its a good idea to ask questions back otherwise all you get to do is try to pick apart my statements without making any of your own. As for who is the scummiest after Daruish? You and Phantom seem to be next in line.

Please explain why you feel this way, it seems to me that what you're just doing is attacking and calling anyone who calls you out as scum.

Quote from: Andrew425 on February 01, 2012, 06:36:23 pm

As for Phantoms question, i'm going to go back and reread. I will answer your statements later

I'm looking forward to hearing you attempt to defend yourself Andrew425.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 2
Post by: zombie urist on February 01, 2012, 07:15:33 pm

Quote from: Tiruin on February 01, 2012, 06:24:05 am

Still, zombie urist, ICs can be scum, why should you not suspect them for any reason? Does their being an IC give them a free town pass?
Also, he just asked you about nitpicking. What is so defensive yourself there?

I never said that ICs should never be suspected, I said that I currently do not suspect either of them of being scum.
As I mentioned earlier, Andrew's behavior is not an isolated incident. I pointed to evidence in my previous post. I do not believe I am being nitpicky in this regard.
Why did you FOS me twice?

Andrew425 I noticed that you tend to appear really angry in response to any criticism. I don't agree that the point of the game is to defend yourself. I believe it is to identify scum. As such, your behavior seems to be really scummy. I also don't quite agree with the questions you are posing. Your questions seem to be using quantity to offset their lack of quality.
I also don't like how all your responses are mostly quotes and really short. Please elaborate on why you believe me and Phantom to be scummy.

Phantom Several of your arguments seem to be repeats from other people. Can you explain to me why you thought my earlier question was 'pointed and fishy-ing'?
You also FOS'd Andrew twice. Is there a reason for doing so?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 2
Post by: Phantom of The Library on February 01, 2012, 07:53:16 pm

Quote from: zombie urist on February 01, 2012, 07:15:33 pm

Phantom Several of your arguments seem to be repeats from other people. Can you explain to me why you thought my earlier question was 'pointed and fishy-ing'?
You also FOS'd Andrew twice. Is there a reason for doing so?

The double FOS was to drive the point home that I'm suspicious of him, in retrospect it was a little unnecessary, why are you asking?  It seems like a rather useless question.

My argument towards you was mostly a repeat, but I felt like I should point it out since I was the one being asked, any others are a case of saying what I was going to say before I could say it.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 2
Post by: Tiruin on February 01, 2012, 09:20:53 pm

@zombie urist: To drive my point home. Give a worded reason why you don't suspect either one of them for being scum, unless you are scum yourself.

Also, on your question to Phantom, an IC just said your question was role-fishy. You didn't even explain why you asked such. Your words and questions contradict themselves yet again.

Quote from: zombie urist on February 01, 2012, 07:15:33 pm

Andrew425 I noticed that you tend to appear really angry in response to any criticism. I don't agree that the point of the game is to defend yourself. I believe it is to identify scum. As such, your behavior seems to be really scummy. I also don't quite agree with the questions you are posing. Your questions seem to be using quantity to offset their lack of quality.
I also don't like how all your responses are mostly quotes and really short. Please elaborate on why you believe me and Phantom to be scummy.

What the...

His target was Dariush and you. How are you bringing Phantom into that?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 2
Post by: Phantom of The Library on February 01, 2012, 09:38:32 pm

Quote from: zombie urist on February 01, 2012, 07:15:33 pm

Phantom Several of your arguments seem to be repeats from other people. Can you explain to me why you thought my earlier question was 'pointed and fishy-ing'?

I nearly missed this, basically it was a little too specific to be an innocent question, it fell almost under role-fishing but not quite.

Quote from: Tiruin on February 01, 2012, 09:20:53 pm

@zombie urist: To drive my point home. Give a worded reason why you don't suspect either one of them for being scum, unless you are scum yourself.

Also, on your question to Phantom, an IC just said your question was role-fishy. You didn't even explain why you asked such. Your words and questions contradict themselves yet again.

Quote from: zombie urist on February 01, 2012, 07:15:33 pm

His target was Dariush and you. How are you bringing Phantom into that?

I think that he's referring to Andrew's statement that:

Quote from: Andrew425 on February 01, 2012, 06:36:23 pm

As for who is the scummiest after Daruish? You and Phantom seem to be next in line.

The you being Urist.
I'm not sure that that's it though.
zombie urist: Were you referring to that statement or are you trying to associate me with you for some reason?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 2
Post by: zombie urist on February 01, 2012, 10:35:07 pm

Quote from: Phantom of The Library on February 01, 2012, 07:53:16 pm

The double FOS was to drive the point home that I'm suspicious of him, in retrospect it was a little unnecessary, why are you asking?  It seems like a rather useless question.
My argument towards you was mostly a repeat, but I felt like I should point it out since I was the one being asked, any others are a case of saying what I was going to say before I could say it.

I'm asking because I too felt it was unnecessary. It feels like a bussing attempt. When you realized your arguments were already said, why didn't you try to provide new insight on the issue instead?

Quote from: Phantom of The Library on February 01, 2012, 09:38:32 pm

Quote from: zombie urist on February 01, 2012, 07:15:33 pm

Phantom Several of your arguments seem to be repeats from other people. Can you explain to me why you thought my earlier question was 'pointed and fishy-ing'?

I nearly missed this, basically it was a little too specific to be an innocent question, it fell almost under role-fishing but not quite.

So now you're saying its not quite role-fishing. What do you really think?

Quote from: Phantom of The Library on February 01, 2012, 09:38:32 pm

I think that he's referring to Andrew's statement that:

Quote from: Andrew425 on February 01, 2012, 06:36:23 pm

As for who is the scummiest after Daruish? You and Phantom seem to be next in line.

The you being Urist. I'm not sure that that's it though.
zombie urist: Were you referring to that statement or are you trying to associate me with you for some reason?

Yes that was the quote I was referring to. I want to know Andrew's reasons, not associate anybody with anyone else.

Quote from: Tiruin on February 01, 2012, 09:20:53 pm

@zombie urist: To drive my point home. Give a worded reason why you don't suspect either one of them for being scum, unless you are scum yourself.

Why did you attitude suddenly change?
I currently don't suspect either ICs because they have been helping and scumhunting. I'm slightly concerned that Daruish hasn't been as active.

Quote from: Tiruin on February 01, 2012, 09:20:53 pm

Also, on your question to Phantom, an IC just said your question was role-fishy. You didn't even explain why you asked such. Your words and questions contradict themselves yet again.

He didn't ask me to explain. If you want an explanation, its because I felt Phantom's answer was very specific whereas Andrew's question was very open. Phantom's answer is more appropriate for a "why do you think scum NK'd Klingon" rather than the broad "What do you think about the NK."

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Night 1
Post by: webadict on February 01, 2012, 10:39:47 pm

Vote Count
------------------------
Andrew425 - zombie urist, Tiruin,
Phantom of The Library -
Tiruin -
zombie urist -
Strategia -
Jim Groovester -
Dariush - Andrew425,

Not Voting - Strategia, Phantom of The Library, Jim Groovester, Dariush,

Day Ends Wednesday 9 PM Central.

Day Extended to Friday.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 2
Post by: Dariush on February 02, 2012, 03:41:44 am

Quote from: Andrew425 on February 01, 2012, 06:36:23 pm

Ok, many times when I asked a question you piped up and said the question was stupid. At least I was talking instead of popping in just to look active.

Talking is not enough. Asking random questions is not enough. Asking rolefishing questions or simply pointless one is enough inverted. Also, you still didn't answer why the fuck you couldn't find anything more significant to vote over than the fact that Strategia didn't vote at the end of day yesterday. Well, apart from me correcting your mistakes, but that hadrly seems to improve your case.

Quote from: Andrew425 on February 01, 2012, 06:36:23 pm

Everybody knows that RVS is a crapshoot to begin with so why when somebody asks an out of the box question do you rain on his parade? Because you're scum and you want the game to go your way.

I may be a baby-soul-eating jerk when I want to but ICing in BMs is not one of those times. As I already said before, I'm correcting your mistakes.

Quote from: Andrew425 on February 01, 2012, 06:36:23 pm

As for who is the scummiest after Daruish? You and Phantom seem to be next in line.

Giving reasons as for why they are the next scummiest is beneath your notice, oh all-knowing one? (er, ninja'd. Well, whatever. Maybe you'll feel more keen to answer the question this way...)

Quote from: zombie urist on February 01, 2012, 10:35:07 pm

He didn't ask me to explain. If you want an explanation, its because I felt Phantom's answer was very specific whereas Andrew's question was very open. Phantom's answer is more appropriate for a "why do you think scum NK'd Klingon" rather than the broad "What do you think about the NK."

If he answered "Why do you think scum NK'd Klingon" instead of what he was supposed to answer, why did you ask him the very same question he answered, except worded differently?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 2
Post by: Jim Groovester on February 02, 2012, 03:23:58 pm

Strategia, quit lurking.

I'm pretty curious why you made such a dramatic and severe attack against somebody yesterday, and then you basically completely petered out after you learned you were wrong. You were really hoping that attack would stick, weren't you?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 2
Post by: Strategia on February 02, 2012, 08:53:48 pm

Quote from: Jim Groovester on February 02, 2012, 03:23:58 pm

Strategia, quit lurking.

I'm pretty curious why you made such a dramatic and severe attack against somebody yesterday, and then you basically completely petered out after you learned you were wrong. You were really hoping that attack would stick, weren't you?

I was just wondering when this was going to happen.

Yes, I was hoping the attack would stick, when I still believed I had a valid point. I didn't, so I reconsidered my strategy. Then when the night lasted for the better part of a week, I got distracted and started doing other stuff (mostly Terraria with a friend), so when activity picked back up I failed to re-focus properly. (Also, I may have jumped the gun a little when joining, since I'd literally only just found out about this board and I'd only read a few pages of one or two threads. I'm not going to back out now, but I probably should've lurked the board a while longer before joining. Blame Darvi and the advertisement in his sig.) I've been meaning to re-read the whole thread again, but I haven't managed to muster the resolve. So I'm going to base this mostly off of a quick browse.

Andrew425, your reason for voting me was..... I unvoted and failed to revote in time? Any reason other than the fact that I was asleep when the day ended you decided to vote for me? (And yes, I know you unvoted me by now.)

Dariush, you haven't said a whole lot other than IC stuff. Why are you active lurking?

I'd also like to question zombie urist, but I can't formulate any good (or even bad) question right now.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 2
Post by: Phantom of The Library on February 02, 2012, 11:23:57 pm

Between internet shutting down and just regular busy-ness, I don't have time to make a proper reply tonight, I should be able to answer  the questions directed at me tomorrow afternoon.

For now, I just realized that my vote didn't carry over from the first day.  It is still on Strategia

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 2
Post by: Dariush on February 03, 2012, 03:00:25 am

Quote from: Strategia on February 02, 2012, 08:53:48 pm

Dariush, you haven't said a whole lot other than IC stuff.

...I don't even know. Maybe... how to put it more delicately... it's because I'm an IC?

Quote from: Strategia on February 02, 2012, 08:53:48 pm

I'd also like to question zombie urist, but I can't formulate any good (or even bad) question right now.

You're a nice little hypocrite, accusing me of activelurking while saying the above. What was the purpose of that sentence?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 2
Post by: Tiruin on February 03, 2012, 06:28:32 am

Mod Webadict: Friday same time? As in 9pm Central right?

Phantom: Votes don't get carried over in between days, reset every end of day. From where did you think I was eluding any questioning by the way, based on your post this day?

Quote from: Phantom of The Library on January 31, 2012, 09:17:14 pm

Tiruin Why weren't you answering questions before now?  I can understand you not answering in full right now because you're busy, but what is your reason before this?

zombie urist: I suspect you very muchly. What did you think my attitude was before this and how does that help at all? Also, I'm curious to know why you aren't explaining what you mostly think based on:

Quote from: zombie urist on February 01, 2012, 10:35:07 pm

He didn't ask me to explain.

You holding something else back there?

Strategia: Do I sense a bit of laziness there? Just ask him a question. You seem passive in my eye but you...rely on the fact that you're new due to the advertising? And you're partly giving up? That's what I got from the gist of your post.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 2
Post by: webadict on February 03, 2012, 09:02:13 am

Quote from: Tiruin on February 03, 2012, 06:28:32 am

Mod Webadict: Friday same time? As in 9pm Central right?

Yep. Might be half an hour to two hours off, but I'll try to keep it around 9.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 2
Post by: zombie urist on February 03, 2012, 11:41:27 am

Quote from: Tiruin on February 03, 2012, 06:28:32 am

zombie urist: I suspect you very muchly. What did you think my attitude was before this and how does that help at all? Also, I'm curious to know why you aren't explaining what you mostly think based on:

Quote from: zombie urist on February 01, 2012, 10:35:07 pm

He didn't ask me to explain.

You holding something else back there?

I'm mostly talking about this statement. Sounds very forceful, no? So far through the game, I've never seen you make such a statement.

Quote from: Tiruin on February 01, 2012, 09:20:53 pm

Give a worded reason why you don't suspect either one of them for being scum, unless you are scum yourself.

It matters because a sudden change in demeanor is a scumtell. I explained my reasoning to my question in my earlier post to you. I took Daruish's post to me as advice to avoid asking such questions.

Quote from: Dariush on February 02, 2012, 03:41:44 am

If he answered "Why do you think scum NK'd Klingon" instead of what he was supposed to answer, why did you ask him the very same question he answered, except worded differently?

My question tried to ask what he would have done if he were on the scum team.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 2
Post by: Phantom of The Library on February 03, 2012, 01:23:18 pm

PFP

Quote from: zombie urist on February 01, 2012, 10:35:07 pm

Quote from: Phantom of The Library on February 01, 2012, 07:53:16 pm

The double FOS was to drive the point home that I'm suspicious of him, in retrospect it was a little unnecessary, why are you asking?  It seems like a rather useless question.
My argument towards you was mostly a repeat, but I felt like I should point it out since I was the one being asked, any others are a case of saying what I was going to say before I could say it.

I'm asking because I too felt it was unnecessary. It feels like a bussing attempt. When you realized your arguments were already said, why didn't you try to provide new insight on the issue instead?

Because I did not see any new insight to provide, and since it concerned me I felt it was necessary to show that I was aware of it.

Quote from: zombie urist on February 01, 2012, 10:35:07 pm

Quote from: Phantom of The Library on February 01, 2012, 09:38:32 pm

Quote from: zombie urist on February 01, 2012, 07:15:33 pm

Phantom Several of your arguments seem to be repeats from other people. Can you explain to me why you thought my earlier question was 'pointed and fishy-ing'?

I nearly missed this, basically it was a little too specific to be an innocent question, it fell almost under role-fishing but not quite.

So now you're saying its not quite role-fishing. What do you really think?

It doesn't quite fit the definition of role-fishing as I understand it, but it is a rather useless question, as town you can't gain any information from it, so thus it is either a useless and poorly thought-out question, or a question posed by scum trying to look town.  For the moment I think it's the former.

---

Quote from: Tiruin on February 03, 2012, 06:28:32 am

Mod Webadict: Friday same time? As in 9pm Central right?

Phantom: Votes don't get carried over in between days, reset every end of day. From where did you think I was eluding any questioning by the way, based on your post this day?

Mostly this:

Quote from: Jim Groovester on January 31, 2012, 02:18:16 am

Tiruin, there's a bunch of things I want responses to from Day 1, but mostly this:

I read that and I thought that I remembered that you forgot to answer a couple questions, mostly relating to your attack on urist, I unfortunately don't have the time to track them down now, but they were Jim's so he could probably tell you which.  I didn't think especially that you were avoinding questioning, it was a more casual question, I didn't know if you were busy then too or if you just missed them, your case on urist was rather shaky, but your other actions don't look particuraly suspicious to me.

I apologize if I missed anything, I will look over this again hopefully before the day ends.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 2
Post by: Dariush on February 03, 2012, 01:37:13 pm

Quote from: zombie urist on February 03, 2012, 11:41:27 am

My question tried to ask what he would have done if he were on the scum team.

And what would be your response depending on his answer?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 2
Post by: Strategia on February 03, 2012, 05:54:16 pm

Quote from: Dariush on February 03, 2012, 03:00:25 am

Quote from: Strategia on February 02, 2012, 08:53:48 pm

Dariush, you haven't said a whole lot other than IC stuff.

...I don't even know. Maybe... how to put it more delicately... it's because I'm an IC?

Well, yes, I realise that, obviously. Don't get me wrong, I'm not criticising you for ICing, it's just that you're a playing IC and I haven't really seen you play much.

Quote from: Dariush on February 03, 2012, 03:00:25 am

Quote from: Strategia on February 02, 2012, 08:53:48 pm

I'd also like to question zombie urist, but I can't formulate any good (or even bad) question right now.

You're a nice little hypocrite, accusing me of activelurking while saying the above. What was the purpose of that sentence?

Kind of a sub-FoS. I have some niggling suspicions at the back of my mind, quite a few actually, but whenever I try to put them in question form it slips through my fingers. Consider it along the lines of "I'm watching you, ZU". There's something I don't like about him, but I couldn't quite put my finger on what.

Quote from: Tiruin on February 03, 2012, 06:28:32 am

Strategia: Do I sense a bit of laziness there? Just ask him a question. You seem passive in my eye but you...rely on the fact that you're new due to the advertising? And you're partly giving up? That's what I got from the gist of your post.

I couldn't think of any particular question to ask. I'm not asking for sympathy or consideration for being new, and I'm not giving up, I'm just saying why my playstyle is all over the place. And acknowledging (albeit belatedly) that Darvi's advertising worked. You know what? I'll do my best not to mention it again. I'm as tired of saying it as you are of reading it.

---

I'm getting mixed feelings from you, zombie urist, but mostly leaning towards "bad". Quite apart from the fact that I don't like how forcefully you jump on typos and formatting errors in a Mafia game, which has no bearing on why I'm voting you now, just wanted to get that out there, you're very keen on spreading suspicion everywhere, between everyone. To me that looks like you're trying your damnedest to prevent or stave off cooperation between the townies, so that it'll be easier to get mislynches and nightkills through. And I'm getting a sneaking suspicion that you're getting help in saying exactly what you need to say. I still don't have a question, but here are my suspicions, and my vote, so no "Strategia didn't vote two nights in a row, he must be scum because he's in a European timezone" stuff this time.

Oh, and please give me more reasons to suspect you. Who knows, maybe I'll actually be able to present a convincing argument based on them, as opposed to my previous vote.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 2
Post by: Jim Groovester on February 03, 2012, 05:59:13 pm

Dariush, day ends today. Where's your vote going to be?

Quote from: Strategia on February 03, 2012, 05:54:16 pm

I'm getting mixed feelings from you, zombie urist, but mostly leaning towards "bad". Quite apart from the fact that I don't like how forcefully you jump on typos and formatting errors in a Mafia game, which has no bearing on why I'm voting you now, just wanted to get that out there, you're very keen on spreading suspicion everywhere, between everyone. To me that looks like you're trying your damnedest to prevent or stave off cooperation between the townies, so that it'll be easier to get mislynches and nightkills through. And I'm getting a sneaking suspicion that you're getting help in saying exactly what you need to say. I still don't have a question, but here are my suspicions, and my vote, so no "Strategia didn't vote two nights in a row, he must be scum because he's in a European timezone" stuff this time.

These are made up accusations. These are exactly the kind of accusations people make when they want to vote somebody but haven't paid enough attention to the game or are knowledgeable enough about their target's actions to provide any concrete evidence.

Prove each and every one, bandwagoning scum.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Night 1
Post by: webadict on February 03, 2012, 06:08:58 pm

Vote Count
------------------------
Andrew425 - zombie urist, Tiruin,
Phantom of The Library -
Tiruin -
zombie urist - Strategia,
Strategia - Jim Groovester, Phantom of The Library,
Jim Groovester -
Dariush - Andrew425,

Not Voting - Dariush,

Day Ends Friday 9 PM Central.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 2
Post by: Jim Groovester on February 03, 2012, 06:13:29 pm

Quote from: webadict on February 03, 2012, 06:08:58 pm

zombie urist - Strategia,

Derp, I'm a retard.

Regardless, I still want evidence for each of those accusations.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 2
Post by: Tiruin on February 03, 2012, 06:17:21 pm

zombie urist: Right. Behavior change a scumtell. So would you like me to buddy up and not suspect you, or anyone else?

No.

What are you trying to play by that question? You did see blue text on your name, most of your questions on day 2 are considerably irrelevant as I see it (Analyzing NK's don't give good reads, town could reasonably guess why, scum can just lie and speculate along) and the other reasons are in my posts to you. You nervous I'm attacking you even if it wasn't a vote, well, you have it now.

Andrew425: Why I voted you, you did attack an IC for his criticism, but in the worst way possible. Scumhunt them down if you believe so much but your reason was not even considerable. Any conversation can materialize, but only if you try. That's like an excuse to why you can't attack him.

Strategia: Are you going to defend yourself other than a single post? So where was that question you are trying to formulate?

---

PPE{Strategia and Jim}: Jim's post let me see I missed something (Strategia's post), leading to strikethrough above.

Bandwagon? I don't see anyone else voting zombie urist.

PPE {Jim again}: Now I get that Bandwagon.


Also, my last post for today, busy in the next hours.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 2
Post by: Andrew425 on February 03, 2012, 07:45:27 pm

K sorry for not posting yesterday.

Quote from: Strategia on February 02, 2012, 08:53:48 pm

Andrew425, your reason for voting me was..... I unvoted and failed to revote in time? Any reason other than the fact that I was asleep when the day ended you decided to vote for me? (And yes, I know you unvoted me by now.)

No real reason, I was just poking around.

Phantom I think I was mistaken. I was thinking of Strategia.

Dariush Answering questions isn't scumhunting. Get in here and do something.

Quote from: Tiruin on February 03, 2012, 06:17:21 pm

Andrew425: Why I voted you, you did attack an IC for his criticism, but in the worst way possible. Scumhunt them down if you believe so much but your reason was not even considerable. Any conversation can materialize, but only if you try. That's like an excuse to why you can't attack him.

If I think a guy is scummy i'm going to go after just about every post of his until he convinces me differently. Sure I may be reaching, but maybe i'll get lucky.

Quote from: zombie urist on February 01, 2012, 07:15:33 pm

Andrew425 I noticed that you tend to appear really angry in response to any criticism. I don't agree that the point of the game is to defend yourself. I believe it is to identify scum. As such, your behavior seems to be really scummy. I also don't quite agree with the questions you are posing. Your questions seem to be using quantity to offset their lack of quality.
I also don't like how all your responses are mostly quotes and really short. Please elaborate on why you believe me and Phantom to be scummy.

Please don't take my wording as angry. It's just a game.

Though I do not understand your point of view. Yes you should be identifying scum. But if you aren't defending yourself then you aren't doing the town any favors.

I like to be succinct.

I think you're scummy because you nitpick. Instead of making any real argument you just criticize formatting issues.

As for Phantom, I think I meant Strategia who at that time hadn't responded to my criticizims

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 2
Post by: zombie urist on February 03, 2012, 08:17:10 pm

Quote from: Strategia on February 03, 2012, 05:54:16 pm

I'm getting mixed feelings from you, zombie urist, but mostly leaning towards "bad". Quite apart from the fact that I don't like how forcefully you jump on typos and formatting errors in a Mafia game, which has no bearing on why I'm voting you now, just wanted to get that out there, you're very keen on spreading suspicion everywhere, between everyone. To me that looks like you're trying your damnedest to prevent or stave off cooperation between the townies, so that it'll be easier to get mislynches and nightkills through. And I'm getting a sneaking suspicion that you're getting help in saying exactly what you need to say. I still don't have a question, but here are my suspicions, and my vote, so no "Strategia didn't vote two nights in a row, he must be scum because he's in a European timezone" stuff this time.

Well what are your reasons for voting for me, other than that you don't like me.

Quote

Oh, and please give me more reasons to suspect you. Who knows, maybe I'll actually be able to present a convincing argument based on them, as opposed to my previous vote.

I honestly can't tell if you're serious or not. You seem to be voting me for the sake of voting, so you don't look scummy, which ironically, is very scummy.

Quote from: Tiruin on February 03, 2012, 06:17:21 pm

zombie urist: Right. Behavior change a scumtell. So would you like me to buddy up and not suspect you, or anyone else?
No.
What are you trying to play by that question? You did see blue text on your name, most of your questions on day 2 are considerably irrelevant as I see it (Analyzing NK's don't give good reads, town could reasonably guess why, scum can just lie and speculate along) and the other reasons are in my posts to you. You nervous I'm attacking you even if it wasn't a vote, well, you have it now.

That is not what I mean. I don't mean behavior change as in scumhunting to not scumhunting, I mean demeanor change such as from calm to agitated, which is what seemed to happen between those posts. Also if you've been paying attention, I've pretty much dropped that line of questioning.

Quote from: Andrew425 on February 03, 2012, 07:45:27 pm

Quote from: Strategia on February 02, 2012, 08:53:48 pm

Andrew425, your reason for voting me was..... I unvoted and failed to revote in time? Any reason other than the fact that I was asleep when the day ended you decided to vote for me? (And yes, I know you unvoted me by now.)

No real reason, I was just poking around.
Phantom I think I was mistaken. I was thinking of Strategia.

You do realize you're responding to Strategia right?

Quote from: Andrew425 on February 03, 2012, 07:45:27 pm

Please don't take my wording as angry. It's just a game.
Though I do not understand your point of view. Yes you should be identifying scum. But if you aren't defending yourself then you aren't doing the town any favors.
I like to be succinct.
I think you're scummy because you nitpick. Instead of making any real argument you just criticize formatting issues.
As for Phantom, I think I meant Strategia who at that time hadn't responded to my criticizims

Your wording feels different when you're defending yourself vs when you're questioning others. If you're going to focus on proving your own innocence you'll never find the scum players.
I've only mentioned syntax errors a few times. I would consider the rest of my posts real arguments.
If you meant Strategia please give me reasons for you picking him.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 2
Post by: Toaster on February 03, 2012, 11:42:51 pm

Quote from: Jim Groovester on February 03, 2012, 06:13:29 pm

Derp, I'm a retard.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 2
Post by: Tiruin on February 04, 2012, 12:33:58 am

Looks like I messed up that time-telling due to timezones. Great...GMT +8 where I am, and I was off by a few hours.

Very strange, from where I see it Strategia already has his reasons on why he is voting you right in that paragraph, just not providing the quotes or evidence to back it up. The reasons are all there zombie urist.

Most of your posts are relaxed and filled with trivialities. Only scum can relax and be passive in their play.

Also, I'm curious to

Quote from: zombie urist on February 03, 2012, 08:17:10 pm

Quote from: Strategia on February 03, 2012, 05:54:16 pm

...you're very keen on spreading suspicion everywhere, between everyone. To me that looks like you're trying your damnedest to prevent or stave off cooperation between the townies, so that it'll be easier to get mislynches and nightkills through.

Well what are your reasons for voting for me, other than that you don't like me.

Quote from: Still Strategia

Oh, and please give me more reasons to suspect you. Who knows, maybe I'll actually be able to present a convincing argument based on them, as opposed to my previous vote.

I honestly can't tell if you're serious or not. You seem to be voting me for the sake of voting, so you don't look scummy, which ironically, is very scummy.

You aren't giving anything on that other than waving it off as a joke. You had all the time to see and reply to it, but instead gave replies to everyone else but that scummy looking Strategia. Stop deflecting.

You also aren't pushing your case on Andrew425. If you really believe him to be scum, why rest on just one post to do all that work?

Explain yourself and Get to the Point, Scum!

---

PPE: Toaster adds something to his quotes.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 2
Post by: Tiruin on February 04, 2012, 12:34:41 am

EBWOP

Forgot to add the zombie urist in my post. That was directed to him.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 2
Post by: Dariush on February 04, 2012, 04:31:02 am

Quote from: Strategia on February 03, 2012, 05:54:16 pm

Well, yes, I realise that, obviously. Don't get me wrong, I'm not criticising you for ICing, it's just that you're a playing IC and I haven't really seen you play much.

That I may have, but I prefer lynching over scummy actions rather than stupid mistakes (both on part of the target and the voter), which seems to be the norm.

Quote from: Strategia on February 03, 2012, 05:54:16 pm

Kind of a sub-FoS. I have some niggling suspicions at the back of my mind, quite a few actually, but whenever I try to put them in question form it slips through my fingers. Consider it along the lines of "I'm watching you, ZU". There's something I don't like about him, but I couldn't quite put my finger on what.

Water, water, water. You just wrote four sentences that don't even begin making a point.

Quote from: Andrew425 on February 03, 2012, 07:45:27 pm

Dariush Answering questions isn't scumhunting. Get in here and do something.

Sure, just ignore 90% of the contents of my posts. At first I wasn't voting you because I thought that what you were doing was too stupid to be scummy. But since you continue pushing on with your shitridiculous case while ignoring your own hipocrisy (about the 'answering questions' part, which seems to be the only thing you are doing), I'll indulge you. Andrew.

Quote from: zombie urist on February 03, 2012, 08:17:10 pm

Quote from: Strategia on February 03, 2012, 05:54:16 pm

I'm getting mixed feelings from you, zombie urist, but mostly leaning towards "bad". Quite apart from the fact that I don't like how forcefully you jump on typos and formatting errors in a Mafia game, which has no bearing on why I'm voting you now, just wanted to get that out there, you're very keen on spreading suspicion everywhere, between everyone. To me that looks like you're trying your damnedest to prevent or stave off cooperation between the townies, so that it'll be easier to get mislynches and nightkills through. And I'm getting a sneaking suspicion that you're getting help in saying exactly what you need to say. I still don't have a question, but here are my suspicions, and my vote, so no "Strategia didn't vote two nights in a row, he must be scum because he's in a European timezone" stuff this time.

Well what are your reasons for voting for me, other than that you don't like me.

Are you even reading the posts you are quoting? Strategia's reasons are quite plainly outlined up there.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Night 1
Post by: webadict on February 04, 2012, 04:35:28 pm

Vote Count
------------------------
Andrew425 - zombie urist, Dariush,
Phantom of The Library -
Tiruin -
zombie urist - Strategia, Tiruin,
Strategia - Jim Groovester, Phantom of The Library,
Jim Groovester -
Dariush - Andrew425,

Not Voting -

Day Ends Friday 9 PM Central.

There is a three-way tie. It is recommended you break it before Monday 9 PM Central.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 2
Post by: Jim Groovester on February 04, 2012, 06:47:59 pm

Quote from: webadict on February 04, 2012, 04:35:28 pm

There is a three-way tie. It is recommended you break it before Monday 9 PM Central.

It was nice of you to do this, but you didn't have to. Letting new players make sub-optimal decisions is perfectly fine, since it's an easy mistake to look at and teach what the correct course of action is. I don't care whether the game goes well, just that they're learning.

But webadict brings up a good point: No-lynching is a good idea only in a few select circumstances, and for a small game like this, it's much better to be lynching people than not. Lynches are the town's only recourse to deal with the scum and they're also the town's primary source of investigatory information. It's not milo, so we need to make up our minds and lynch somebody.

Quote from: Toaster on February 03, 2012, 11:42:51 pm

Quote from: Jim Groovester on February 03, 2012, 06:13:29 pm

Derp, I'm a retard.

Immortalize it forever, why don't you.

Quote from: Tiruin on February 04, 2012, 12:33:58 am

Very strange, from where I see it Strategia already has his reasons on why he is voting you right in that paragraph, just not providing the quotes or evidence to back it up. The reasons are all there zombie urist.

You're awfully cool with Strategia's accusation, what with how vague and contentless it is. Have you actually looked at it? What kind of accusation is spreading suspicion and trying to prevent town cooperation?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 2
Post by: Tiruin on February 05, 2012, 01:24:59 am

@Jim: What I got from what you said is something going along the lines of me defending him. I'm not. I was just pointing out to zombie urist what he missed in his post, though the reasons were not backed up, as Strategia hasn't posted from then on. Which is what I'm waiting for. His explanation and back-up of it which I am also curious on (which may come late as he hasn't logged on since the last post, maybe due to RL or what he said about not giving up would sound like a lie).

Though, why were you quick to name and act as if all those were a bandwagon vote and attack him as if he did it, disregarding the realization later on?

zombie urist:
You hadn't answered this.

Quote from: Dariush on February 03, 2012, 01:37:13 pm

Quote from: zombie urist on February 03, 2012, 11:41:27 am

My question tried to ask what he would have done if he were on the scum team.

And what would be your response depending on his answer?

Strategia: Where is your defense? You just voted without giving much concrete proof, except for speaking your mind.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 2
Post by: Jim Groovester on February 05, 2012, 01:59:43 am

You're reading too much into my question. Did I ask you why you were defending Strategia? No. Why would I want answer to a question I didn't ask?

You say Strategia's reasons for voting are right there, like zombie urist is supposed to respond to them somehow. That's not really possible, given the nature of the accusations.

But really, the point I'm getting at is that a lot of your accusations against zombie urist are weak.

Quote from: Tiruin on February 04, 2012, 12:33:58 am

Most of your posts are relaxed and filled with trivialities. Only scum can relax and be passive in their play.

How do you figure? Is being relaxed a scum tell? How are all his posts filled with trivialities? Is attacking targets and defending himself against accusations trivialities? What makes you so sure scum will be relaxed? Or passive?

Quote from: Tiruin on February 05, 2012, 01:24:59 am

Though, why were you quick to name and act as if all those were a bandwagon vote and attack him as if he did it, disregarding the realization later on?

I can't parse this sentence.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 2
Post by: Tiruin on February 05, 2012, 03:21:15 am

Quote from: Jim Groovester on February 05, 2012, 01:59:43 am

You're reading too much into my question. Did I ask you why you were defending Strategia? No. Why would I want answer to a question I didn't ask?

Quote from: Tiruin on February 05, 2012, 01:24:59 am

Though, why were you quick to name and act as if all those were a bandwagon vote and attack him as if he did it, disregarding the realization later on?

I can't parse this sentence.

On the first paragraph, I was giving what I thought about that question. I was taking "You're awfully cool..." as saying "You seem to be fine with just whatever he said."

On the second:

Quote from: Jim Groovester on February 03, 2012, 05:59:13 pm

Dariush, day ends today. Where's your vote going to be?

Quote from: Strategia on February 03, 2012, 05:54:16 pm

I'm getting mixed feelings from you, zombie urist, but mostly leaning towards "bad". Quite apart from the fact that I don't like how forcefully you jump on typos and formatting errors in a Mafia game, which has no bearing on why I'm voting you now, just wanted to get that out there, you're very keen on spreading suspicion everywhere, between everyone. To me that looks like you're trying your damnedest to prevent or stave off cooperation between the townies, so that it'll be easier to get mislynches and nightkills through. And I'm getting a sneaking suspicion that you're getting help in saying exactly what you need to say. I still don't have a question, but here are my suspicions, and my vote, so no "Strategia didn't vote two nights in a row, he must be scum because he's in a European timezone" stuff this time.

These are made up accusations. These are exactly the kind of accusations people make when they want to vote somebody but haven't paid enough attention to the game or are knowledgeable enough about their target's actions to provide any concrete evidence.

Prove each and every one, bandwagoning scum.

Other than the realization that it wasn't a bandwagon later on, I saw this as a statement based on if he was bandwagoning (other than the fact that it[Strategia's post] had no basis to hold it up, as in links or quotes).

Which, I guess, leads to both of us wanting Strategia's reply.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 2
Post by: Phantom of The Library on February 05, 2012, 06:54:28 pm

Strategia: I too am awaiting your reply, give specific reasons as to why you think that urist is scum, and provide examples, right now all you're saying is: "Oooooh, I'm too lazy to actually look for even a single piece of something to back up any claims I might make, but I can't not vote, so I'm going to put my vote on this guy that the other guy voted for so I don't look like I'm attacking a random person, and then I'm going to put down vague reasons why I voted him, so nobody can tell that I just made them up."
We're waiting scumbag.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 2
Post by: MagmaMcFry on February 06, 2012, 09:05:23 am

Posting to follow and to know when the next BM starts.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 2
Post by: Jim Groovester on February 06, 2012, 02:31:33 pm

Hey, I've got an idea.

Instead of no-lynching, let's lynch lurking scum.

That would be Strategia.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 2
Post by: Tiruin on February 06, 2012, 05:53:50 pm

 :-\

To be honest, I was really expecting either zombie urist or Strategia to defend themselves...

Or even a reply from Andrew425 on his attack on Dariush. Going with my second suspicion then.

Strategia

Although, the rest seem to be lurking too.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 2
Post by: zombie urist on February 06, 2012, 08:54:06 pm

Quote from: Tiruin on February 05, 2012, 01:24:59 am

zombie urist:
You hadn't answered this.

Quote from: Dariush on February 03, 2012, 01:37:13 pm

Quote from: zombie urist on February 03, 2012, 11:41:27 am

My question tried to ask what he would have done if he were on the scum team.

And what would be your response depending on his answer?

Depending on his answers, I would continue asking related questions. I've pretty much given up on this line of questioning though since NKs don't give much information.

Quote from: Tiruin on February 04, 2012, 12:33:58 am

Also, I'm curious to

Quote from: zombie urist on February 03, 2012, 08:17:10 pm

Quote from: Strategia on February 03, 2012, 05:54:16 pm

...you're very keen on spreading suspicion everywhere, between everyone. To me that looks like you're trying your damnedest to prevent or stave off cooperation between the townies, so that it'll be easier to get mislynches and nightkills through.

Well what are your reasons for voting for me, other than that you don't like me.

Quote from: Still Strategia

Oh, and please give me more reasons to suspect you. Who knows, maybe I'll actually be able to present a convincing argument based on them, as opposed to my previous vote.

I honestly can't tell if you're serious or not. You seem to be voting me for the sake of voting, so you don't look scummy, which ironically, is very scummy.

You aren't giving anything on that other than waving it off as a joke. You had all the time to see and reply to it, but instead gave replies to everyone else but that scummy looking Strategia. Stop deflecting.
You also aren't pushing your case on Andrew425. If you really believe him to be scum, why rest on just one post to do all that work?

He wants me to testify against myself. I don't see it as anything other than a joke. I responded to him and would like him to give evidence and support for his accusations. 
Andrew hasn't responded to my last post yet so there's not much more I can say to him or about him.

Quote from: Dariush on February 04, 2012, 04:31:02 am

Are you even reading the posts you are quoting? Strategia's reasons are quite plainly outlined up there.

Yes and they are all pretty empty suspicions. I want to see if he has anything other than what amounts to 'I don't like what you're doing' and 'I need to vote to not look scummy'

Quote from: Tiruin on February 06, 2012, 05:53:50 pm

To be honest, I was really expecting either zombie urist or Strategia to defend themselves...
Or even a reply from Andrew425 on his attack on Dariush. Going with my second suspicion then.
Strategia
Although, the rest seem to be lurking too.

I would also like to hear from Strategia and Andrew425. I'm really interested by how quickly you acted on Jim's suggestion though.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 2
Post by: Andrew425 on February 06, 2012, 09:51:46 pm

Seeing as how a tie has already been broken I guess my vote will remain on Dariush.

As to questions that I haven't answered yet.

Quote from: zombie urist on February 03, 2012, 08:17:10 pm

Quote from: Andrew425 on February 03, 2012, 07:45:27 pm

Quote from: Strategia on February 02, 2012, 08:53:48 pm

Andrew425, your reason for voting me was..... I unvoted and failed to revote in time? Any reason other than the fact that I was asleep when the day ended you decided to vote for me? (And yes, I know you unvoted me by now.)

No real reason, I was just poking around.
Phantom I think I was mistaken. I was thinking of Strategia.

You do realize you're responding to Strategia right?

Woops, I was compiling that post and copying and pasting and I answered a question that I hadn't got around to quoting yet.

Quote from: Andrew425 on February 03, 2012, 07:45:27 pm

Please don't take my wording as angry. It's just a game.
Though I do not understand your point of view. Yes you should be identifying scum. But if you aren't defending yourself then you aren't doing the town any favors.
I like to be succinct.
I think you're scummy because you nitpick. Instead of making any real argument you just criticize formatting issues.
As for Phantom, I think I meant Strategia who at that time hadn't responded to my criticizims

Your wording feels different when you're defending yourself vs when you're questioning others. If you're going to focus on proving your own innocence you'll never find the scum players.
I've only mentioned syntax errors a few times. I would consider the rest of my posts real arguments.
If you meant Strategia please give me reasons for you picking him.

I try to prove my innocence and find scum at the same time.

As for the nitpicking, that so far has been our main interactions so that's why.

I think Strategia is scum for the following reasons.

He's been lurking, and this

Quote from: Strategia on February 03, 2012, 05:54:16 pm

I'm getting mixed feelings from you, zombie urist, but mostly leaning towards "bad". Quite apart from the fact that I don't like how forcefully you jump on typos and formatting errors in a Mafia game, which has no bearing on why I'm voting you now, just wanted to get that out there, you're very keen on spreading suspicion everywhere, between everyone. To me that looks like you're trying your damnedest to prevent or stave off cooperation between the townies, so that it'll be easier to get mislynches and nightkills through. And I'm getting a sneaking suspicion that you're getting help in saying exactly what you need to say. I still don't have a question, but here are my suspicions, and my vote, so no "Strategia didn't vote two nights in a row, he must be scum because he's in a European timezone" stuff this time.

He's attacking you for hunting scum and he brings up IC help on his own accord, which seems scummy to suggest it.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 2
Post by: Tiruin on February 06, 2012, 10:22:11 pm

Quote from: zombie urist on February 06, 2012, 08:54:06 pm

I would also like to hear from Strategia and Andrew425. I'm really interested by how quickly you acted on Jim's suggestion though.

Strange, replies only come when a vote {my vote} is changed. For the past...day, if I may say so, no response until the nearing end.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 2
Post by: zombie urist on February 06, 2012, 11:43:03 pm

Andrew425 You've been doing more of the defending than scumhunting. Your reasons for Strategia are pretty bad and totally looks like a bandwagon, which also leads to the question of why you're voting for Daruish if you think Strategia is scum. Please keep in mind that I've never said that making mistakes automatically means someone is scum. I've only ever used it to start questioning people, and your responses have been the most intriguing. It's also interesting to note that the way you're handling my questions now is much different from before.

Quote from: Tiruin on February 06, 2012, 10:22:11 pm

Quote from: zombie urist on February 06, 2012, 08:54:06 pm

I would also like to hear from Strategia and Andrew425. I'm really interested by how quickly you acted on Jim's suggestion though.

Strange, replies only come when a vote {my vote} is changed. For the past...day, if I may say so, no response until the nearing end.

This is probably coincidence and doesn't have anything to do with anything. If you have time, I am interested in why you suddenly switched vote to Strategia.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 2
Post by: Andrew425 on February 06, 2012, 11:50:18 pm

Quote from: zombie urist on February 06, 2012, 11:43:03 pm

Andrew425 You've been doing more of the defending than scumhunting. Your reasons for Strategia are pretty bad and totally looks like a bandwagon, which also leads to the question of why you're voting for Daruish if you think Strategia is scum. Please keep in mind that I've never said that making mistakes automatically means someone is scum. I've only ever used it to start questioning people, and your responses have been the most intriguing. It's also interesting to note that the way you're handling my questions now is much different from before.

Ergo why my vote is still on Dariush.

You wanted to know why I suspect Strategia and I gave them.

What do you mean by that my responses have been the most intriguing? And how is my question handling different?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 2
Post by: Tiruin on February 07, 2012, 06:11:33 am

Quote from: zombie urist on February 06, 2012, 11:43:03 pm

Quote from: Tiruin on February 06, 2012, 10:22:11 pm

Strange, replies only come when a vote {my vote} is changed. For the past...day, if I may say so, no response until the nearing end.

This is probably coincidence and doesn't have anything to do with anything. If you have time, I am interested in why you suddenly switched vote to Strategia.

Coincidence that for the extension, nothing else has been debated on other than what is still known, repeating mostly. Yeah, Coincidence is very likely, or is nobody else interested in whittling out the suspects to find out who really is scum? You and Andrew425 have been lurking, or something close to it, in the past three days.

Nevertheless, Strategia hasn't posted.It is already the end of the day. Forum time (I am not good in time translation) states Tuesday, 5am. Very long for one who has something to say for himself, you two have posted right after me saying 'lurking', but still up to coincidence. But, Why so interested in my vote change?

To answer, other than you being suspicious, Strategia made a post that looks very rushed up and lacking in quotes or links, also based on what goes in on his mind, but nearly no factual evidence though the voice of intuition is in his post "I have a sneaking feeling...", it has no backup. Many of my other reasons coincide with what others have said, to save you from telling me that I'm repeating things.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Quote from: Strategia on February 02, 2012, 08:53:48 pm

Quote from: Jim Groovester on February 02, 2012, 03:23:58 pm

Strategia, quit lurking.

I was just wondering when this was going to happen.
I'd also like to question zombie urist, but I can't formulate any good (or even bad) question right now.

Though part of this may be due to being new (and I don't blame him as it looks like honesty), he responded like lurking was intentional. Indecisive though, but it looks also due to RL.

Still waiting for his reply as only his own words can clear it up. Last logged on a day ago.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 2
Post by: Dariush on February 07, 2012, 08:23:04 am

Quote from: Andrew425 on February 06, 2012, 09:51:46 pm

Seeing as how a tie has already been broken I guess my vote will remain on Dariush.

Oh, that's nice, except not really. Do you care about lynching the person you find suspicious or lynching anyone at all?

Quote from: Andrew425 on February 06, 2012, 09:51:46 pm

Quote from: Strategia on February 03, 2012, 05:54:16 pm

I'm getting mixed feelings from you, zombie urist, but mostly leaning towards "bad". Quite apart from the fact that I don't like how forcefully you jump on typos and formatting errors in a Mafia game, which has no bearing on why I'm voting you now, just wanted to get that out there, you're very keen on spreading suspicion everywhere, between everyone. To me that looks like you're trying your damnedest to prevent or stave off cooperation between the townies, so that it'll be easier to get mislynches and nightkills through. And I'm getting a sneaking suspicion that you're getting help in saying exactly what you need to say. I still don't have a question, but here are my suspicions, and my vote, so no "Strategia didn't vote two nights in a row, he must be scum because he's in a European timezone" stuff this time.

He's attacking you for hunting scum and he brings up IC help on his own accord, which seems scummy to suggest it.

What you're doing there is twisting words. There's no point in Strategia's post where he attacks ZU for scumhunting, and 'bringing up IC help' isn't a scumtell.

Also, Strategia's last post was in this very thread three days ago, so that's not exactly lurking.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 2
Post by: Tiruin on February 07, 2012, 08:30:38 am

Quote from: Dariush on February 07, 2012, 08:23:04 am

Also, Strategia's last post was in this very thread three days ago, so that's not exactly lurking.

So, extend then?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 2
Post by: webadict on February 07, 2012, 09:25:08 am

Sorry guys. I'm gonna extend this for about 12 hours or so.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 2
Post by: zombie urist on February 07, 2012, 11:22:22 am

Quote from: Andrew425 on February 06, 2012, 11:50:18 pm

Ergo why my vote is still on Dariush.
You wanted to know why I suspect Strategia and I gave them.
What do you mean by that my responses have been the most intriguing? And how is my question handling different?

By intriguing I mean that they look the most scummy. Your handling of questions now seems to be a lot more relaxed than before where you were pretty violent and seemed slightly angry. In your earlier posts when someone criticized you you hastily shook it off. You don't seem to be doing that anymore.

Quote from: Tiruin on February 07, 2012, 06:11:33 am

Coincidence that for the extension, nothing else has been debated on other than what is still known, repeating mostly. Yeah, Coincidence is very likely, or is nobody else interested in whittling out the suspects to find out who really is scum? You and Andrew425 have been lurking, or something close to it, in the past three days.

It was the weekend. People have other things to do during the weekend.

Quote

Why so interested in my vote change?

Jim mentioned voting Strategia right above your post. Then you change your mind and decide to go with your 'second' scumpick without presenting any additional arguments, which looks like a bandwagon. Your argument for him lurking seems to be he might be lurking on purpose or he might have RL commitments, which doesn't really say much at all. Your other arguments are better, but still don't account for why you're going with your second instead of first.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 2
Post by: Phantom of The Library on February 07, 2012, 08:47:36 pm

Quote from: Dariush on February 07, 2012, 08:23:04 am

Quote from: Andrew425 on February 06, 2012, 09:51:46 pm

Seeing as how a tie has already been broken I guess my vote will remain on Dariush.

Oh, that's nice, except not really. Do you care about lynching the person you find suspicious or lynching anyone at all?

Quote from: Andrew425 on February 06, 2012, 09:51:46 pm

Quote from: Strategia on February 03, 2012, 05:54:16 pm

I'm getting mixed feelings from you, zombie urist, but mostly leaning towards "bad". Quite apart from the fact that I don't like how forcefully you jump on typos and formatting errors in a Mafia game, which has no bearing on why I'm voting you now, just wanted to get that out there, you're very keen on spreading suspicion everywhere, between everyone. To me that looks like you're trying your damnedest to prevent or stave off cooperation between the townies, so that it'll be easier to get mislynches and nightkills through. And I'm getting a sneaking suspicion that you're getting help in saying exactly what you need to say. I still don't have a question, but here are my suspicions, and my vote, so no "Strategia didn't vote two nights in a row, he must be scum because he's in a European timezone" stuff this time.

He's attacking you for hunting scum and he brings up IC help on his own accord, which seems scummy to suggest it.

What you're doing there is twisting words. There's no point in Strategia's post where he attacks ZU for scumhunting, and 'bringing up IC help' isn't a scumtell.

Also, Strategia's last post was in this very thread three days ago, so that's not exactly lurking.

PFP
But he has logged in at least twice, once earleir today and the other on sunday, I think it was.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 2
Post by: Tiruin on February 08, 2012, 04:02:46 am

Shouldn't this have ended some hours ago?

I've a nagging feeling today wasn't that good (just a feeling on Strategia), but as he hasn't posted, my vote stays on him.

Shorten

(Is that the correct term for ending the day?)

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 2
Post by: Dariush on February 08, 2012, 08:04:55 am

Quote from: Phantom of The Library on February 07, 2012, 08:47:36 pm

But he has logged in at least twice, once earleir today and the other on sunday, I think it was.

So? I have no moral objections to lynching someone who posts somewhere else, but pointedly ignores this game, but the fact that he simply logged in means nothing.

Quote from: Tiruin on February 08, 2012, 04:02:46 am

Shouldn't this have ended some hours ago?

Far, far too keen to have the day ended. Tsk-tsk.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 2
Post by: Tiruin on February 08, 2012, 08:10:30 am

Quote from: Dariush on February 08, 2012, 08:04:55 am

Quote from: Tiruin on February 08, 2012, 04:02:46 am

Shouldn't this have ended some hours ago?

Far, far too keen to have the day ended. Tsk-tsk.

No, I meant by when I saw webadict's post then checking the time on it.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 2
Post by: webadict on February 08, 2012, 02:16:00 pm

Yeah, my bad. Was busy last night. Ending now.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Night 1
Post by: webadict on February 08, 2012, 03:30:08 pm

No time for flavor, sorry!

Vote Count
------------------------
Andrew425 - zombie urist, Dariush,
Phantom of The Library -
Tiruin -
zombie urist - Strategia,
Strategia - Jim Groovester, Phantom of The Library, Tiruin,
Jim Groovester -
Dariush - Andrew425,

Not Voting -

Day Ends Monday 9 PM Central.

Strategia has been lynched!

Strategia was a Townie (town).

It is now Night.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Night 2
Post by: webadict on February 13, 2012, 09:00:59 am

The sheriff went about asking more and more people what they knew. He tried to get past this stupid witch business, but nobody would put it to rest. He tried to keep his anger inside.

This method proved less effective, so he took the remaining suspects and mulled them over in his head. He wasn't getting anywhere.

He thought about his wife and what she would've done.

I told him to excuse me because I needed a bathroom break.

Tiruin has been killed.

Tiruin was a Cop (town).

Vote Count
------------------------
Andrew425 -
Phantom of The Library -
zombie urist -
Jim Groovester -
Dariush -

Not Voting - zombie urist, Dariush, Jim Groovester, Phantom of The Library, Andrew425,

Day Ends Wednesday 9 PM Central.

It is now Day.

Apologies for the long Night.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 3
Post by: Darvi on February 13, 2012, 09:03:28 am

Quote from: webadict on February 13, 2012, 09:00:59 am

Vote Count
------------------------
Andrew425 - zombie urist, Dariush,
Phantom of The Library -
Tiruin -
zombie urist - Strategia,
Strategia - Jim Groovester, Phantom of The Library, Tiruin,
Jim Groovester -
Dariush - Andrew425,

Not Voting -

Uhm, yeah.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 3
Post by: Tiruin on February 13, 2012, 09:15:59 am

So I can give flavor Bah. Don't base anything in it.

Spoiler: Following in spoilers is only to be known as flavor, no clues to you people. Good luck to ye all. (click to show/hide)

Labella, Dawn of the Second day. The Old Shack near the well. Deathrow(?).

Dear Diary,

So, it's me again. Writing my whole night off with nothing else to do except watch the stars and the moon. Maybe listen to those coyotes and their insufferable howling again. Meh, not sure what I'd do this time. Damned witches, stealing all them gold.

At least I've got my hat and jacket with me, as well as all those other comestibles and necessities. I can't say how much I pity them miners and their need to toil everyday for a scrap of food and water. Especially water. The sweet taste on the parched tongue, the glistening feel as the eyes look upon them in this sun-blasted wasteland.

Hmm, maybe I'll write myself to sleep this time, hope that sheriff would do his job. Labella seems sure a mighty fine place for a woman, though I'm not cut out for it.

Well, signing off diary! Sweet dreams! I'm sure to write to you tonight, heh. Maybe another story of how I tossed a tumbleweed with my own two hands? Or maybe a poem? Life is good.

Penelope Pereda,
Deputy/Cop of Labella

Oh, and flavoristic bah. Eat that gold witches and may all your teeth fall out!

Bah I say, BAH!

_{I bet the Gold will win.}

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 3
Post by: webadict on February 13, 2012, 09:21:14 am

Quote from: Darvi on February 13, 2012, 09:03:28 am

Quote from: webadict on February 13, 2012, 09:00:59 am

Vote Count
------------------------
Andrew425 - zombie urist, Dariush,
Phantom of The Library -
Tiruin -
zombie urist - Strategia,
Strategia - Jim Groovester, Phantom of The Library, Tiruin,
Jim Groovester -
Dariush - Andrew425,

Not Voting -

Uhm, yeah.

< Tired

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 3
Post by: Darvi on February 13, 2012, 09:22:48 am

Strategia's still dead. OR IS HE?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 3
Post by: webadict on February 13, 2012, 09:32:15 am

Quote from: Darvi on February 13, 2012, 09:22:48 am

Strategia's still dead. OR IS HE?

Then who did I erase?!

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 3
Post by: Phantom of The Library on February 13, 2012, 09:18:46 pm

PFP

Andrew425 You falsely attacked me yesterday, and if you haven't figured it out by now, that's something that I don't like.  If you aren't scum then tell me who is and why.

---

Dariush You haven't been posting much until recently,any particular reason for that?

---

Quote from: webadict on February 13, 2012, 09:32:15 am

Quote from: Darvi on February 13, 2012, 09:22:48 am

Strategia's still dead. OR IS HE?

Then who did I erase?!

Nobody.
*Suddenly, from back of the bar comes a loud crash and a cyclops comes charging through demanding to see Odysseus's corpse*

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 3
Post by: zombie urist on February 13, 2012, 11:10:41 pm

This game needs more participation.  :(

Votes still on Andrew425. Reasons are strong overreaction to criticism at beginning of game, really weak reasons earlier on Strategia, lots of concern with his image as a town and recently a change in demeanor. He also hasn't posted a while, even before the night phase.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 3
Post by: Andrew425 on February 14, 2012, 06:28:35 am

I think it is lylo.

Quote from: zombie urist on February 13, 2012, 11:10:41 pm

Votes still on Andrew425. Reasons are strong overreaction to criticism at beginning of game, really weak reasons earlier on Strategia, lots of concern with his image as a town and recently a change in demeanor. He also hasn't posted a while, even before the night phase.

Let me get this straight. Your reason for voting for me is because I was acting angry and then when asked about it my posts appeared nicer afterwards? Really?

Quote from: Phantom of The Library on February 13, 2012, 09:18:46 pm

Andrew425 You falsely attacked me yesterday, and if you haven't figured it out by now, that's something that I don't like.  If you aren't scum then tell me who is and why.

I think you are scum because of that post right there.

This is lylo and there are two scum out of the remaining 5 of us. I know i'm a townie and i'm fairly sure Jim is as well. (Unless Web wanted to make an automatic scum win) Which leaves you, zombie and Dariush. I already suspect Dariush but I don't have any concrete evidence so I will go after his scum buddy. Which is you.

Why would somebody start a day off with a FoS on lylo? So you can cast doubt on me without being the first one to just jump on me. Scumwise Scumgee.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 3
Post by: Dariush on February 14, 2012, 08:01:49 am

Quote from: Andrew425 on February 14, 2012, 06:28:35 am

I already suspect Dariush but I don't have any concrete evidence so I will go after his scum buddy. Which is you.

So, do you or don't think I'm scum?

Quote from: Phantom of The Library on February 13, 2012, 09:18:46 pm

Dariush You haven't been posting much until recently,any particular reason for that?

...I wasn't?

Quote from: Andrew425 on February 14, 2012, 06:28:35 am

Why would somebody start a day off with a FoS on lylo? So you can cast doubt on me without being the first one to just jump on me. Scumwise Scumgee.

Oh god more WIFOM.

Quote from: Andrew425 on February 14, 2012, 06:28:35 am

I think it is lylo.

Wrong. It is LYLO. Are you really that afraid of taking even such an insignificant stance, Andrew?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 3
Post by: Jim Groovester on February 14, 2012, 12:57:23 pm

This is a bit surprising. Still being alive.

It's now lylo. The game now requires extra care to get through. Do a reread of the thread and pay close attention to the remaining players in the game. Ask about anything that pops out or bugs you. Once you've read through the thread and gotten answers to all your questions, make your decision.

Quote from: Andrew425 on February 14, 2012, 06:28:35 am

I think you are scum because of that post right there.

Then vote for him. Why haven't you?

Quote from: Andrew425 on February 14, 2012, 06:28:35 am

(Unless Web wanted to make an automatic scum win)

This is WIFOM.

As far as I'm aware of, there's only been one Beginner's game where both ICs were scum, but that still isn't a reason to think any particular player or set of players is one alignment or the other.

I need to do a reread, but I had to get out my standard lylo message in a timely manner.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 3
Post by: zombie urist on February 14, 2012, 11:21:52 pm

Quote from: Andrew425 on February 14, 2012, 06:28:35 am

Let me get this straight. Your reason for voting for me is because I was acting angry and then when asked about it my posts appeared nicer afterwards? Really?

Yes this is one of the reasons.

Quote

This is lylo and there are two scum out of the remaining 5 of us. I know i'm a townie and i'm fairly sure Jim is as well. (Unless Web wanted to make an automatic scum win) Which leaves you, zombie and Dariush. I already suspect Dariush but I don't have any concrete evidence so I will go after his scum buddy. Which is you.

Why do you suspect him if you don't have evidence? Also what is your evidence against Phantom?

Quote from: Jim Groovester on February 14, 2012, 12:57:23 pm

As far as I'm aware of, there's only been one Beginner's game where both ICs were scum, but that still isn't a reason to think any particular player or set of players is one alignment or the other.

Out of curiosity, how did this game go?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 3
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on February 14, 2012, 11:24:31 pm

Quote

Both ICs rolled up scum and proceeded to thrash the town in a manly fashion--other than the fact that one of them died D2 after a carefully launched townie assault.  The other one was Webadict.  Despite the thrashing, this was a surprisingly tense game.  A last-minute townie replacement resulted in a near-loss for the scum team.  Demonstrates insightful playing at its best, on both sides.

That was Beginners' Mafia 3 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=42347.0), brought to you by the Notable Games Archive.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 3
Post by: webadict on February 15, 2012, 08:31:46 am

Aka, Eduren and I won.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 3
Post by: Phantom of The Library on February 15, 2012, 08:36:33 am

PFP

I apologize for being too busy to post yesterday.

I unfortunately do not have the time for a full post right now, but for now I want to say this:
I started with an FoS because it is lylo, and I didn't want to misplace my vote, so I decided to put a little pressure on the person who I found to be the most suspicious, namely Andrew425. I put a little pressure on you and you immediately attack me, just what I would expect scum to do.  You have 12 hours to convince me that you're not scum.

I will provide more reasons later today, if I have the time.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 3
Post by: Jim Groovester on February 15, 2012, 07:11:29 pm

Extend. I haven't been able to give this game the attention it needs. I need a bit more time.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 3
Post by: Andrew425 on February 16, 2012, 12:57:22 am

Going to have to ask for an Extend

and just so we are clear my vote is on Phantom of the Library

Reasons will come later

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Night 2
Post by: webadict on February 16, 2012, 09:49:07 am

Vote Count
------------------------
Andrew425 - zombie urist, Dariush,
Phantom of The Library - Andrew425,
zombie urist -
Jim Groovester -
Dariush -

Not Voting - Jim Groovester, Phantom of The Library,

Day Ends Friday 9 PM Central.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 3
Post by: Tiruin on February 16, 2012, 10:06:34 am

Edited out!

Also, you forgot the extension request  :P.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Night 2
Post by: ansontan2000 on February 16, 2012, 10:09:37 am

Quote from: webadict on February 16, 2012, 09:49:07 am

Tiruin has been killed.

Tiruin was a Cop
Day Ends Friday 9 PM Central.

Uhh...

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Night 2
Post by: webadict on February 16, 2012, 10:19:08 am

Quote from: ansontan2000 on February 16, 2012, 10:09:37 am

Quote from: webadict on February 16, 2012, 09:49:07 am

Tiruin has been killed.

Tiruin was a Cop
Day Ends Friday 9 PM Central.

Uhh...

My bad. Forgot to delete all of that.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 3
Post by: Phantom of The Library on February 16, 2012, 06:50:22 pm

I'm finally able to post again, thank the dogs.

My Reasons For Voting For Andrew425, Otherwise Known As Scum:

First, of all something from Dariush a while ago, that sums up what I would say about said quotes:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Quote from: Dariush on January 31, 2012, 08:11:15 am

Quote from: Andrew425 on January 30, 2012, 04:04:19 pm

StrategiaYou didn't vote at the end of the day. It's ok to mislynch people. It is not ok to not vote. That scummy behaviour

What, really? That's the entire basis for your vote that you can scrap up at the second day?

Quote from: Andrew425 on January 30, 2012, 04:04:19 pm

Jim You actually made it to the second day. How often does this happen? How will you play differently now that you have lived this long?

Kinda ninja'd by Jim, but this is horrific WIFOM and stupid almost-RVS question to accompany it. Don't do it.

Quote from: zombie urist on January 31, 2012, 01:35:37 am

If you were mafia, would you have thought to NK Klingon?

Don't rolefish.

Second, he falsely accused me on three false premises:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Quote from: Andrew425 on January 31, 2012, 11:11:26 pm

Quote from: Phantom of The Library on January 24, 2012, 11:23:13 pm

Quote from: Andrew425 on January 24, 2012, 05:12:38 am

I don't like how Phantom tried the bandwagon.

Please explain to me how I "tried the bandwagon", what does that even mean?  Are you trying to say that I started one or that I hopped on one?  I don't recall ever doing anything which could be mistaken for either one.

Strategia had 2 votes on him. You come out swinging with your wall of text voting for him. People give you crap for it and you back off soon after.

Third, again Dariush pretty much says what I was going to say:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Quote from: Dariush on February 14, 2012, 08:01:49 am

Quote from: Andrew425 on February 14, 2012, 06:28:35 am

I already suspect Dariush but I don't have any concrete evidence so I will go after his scum buddy. Which is you.

So, do you or don't think I'm scum?

Quote from: Andrew425 on February 14, 2012, 06:28:35 am

Why would somebody start a day off with a FoS on lylo? So you can cast doubt on me without being the first one to just jump on me. Scumwise Scumgee.

Oh god more WIFOM.

Quote from: Andrew425 on February 14, 2012, 06:28:35 am

I think it is lylo.

Wrong. It is LYLO. Are you really that afraid of taking even such an insignificant stance, Andrew?

Fourth, he attacked an IC for being an IC.

Fifth, He reacted violently to a FoS, pretty much OMGUS-ing minus the vote.

And Sixth: his OMGUS just now.

As well as being too concerned about his own image, although that's more of a feeling I get and I can't think of any specific examples at the moment.

---

Quote from: Dariush on February 14, 2012, 08:01:49 am

Quote from: Phantom of The Library on February 13, 2012, 09:18:46 pm

Dariush You haven't been posting much until recently,any particular reason for that?

...I wasn't?

This was an honest mistake on my part, I hadn't looked back through the game yet, and I didn't remember you posting much, mostly due to the fact that hardly any of it pertained to me, or I attributed it to Jim by accident in my memory. 

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 3
Post by: Jim Groovester on February 16, 2012, 07:20:48 pm

As I recommended I did a reread of the thread. There was stuff that came up from my reread but for the sake of focus I've left them out. I may ask them later if I think it's important.

Quote from: Dariush on February 14, 2012, 08:01:49 am

Quote from: Andrew425 on February 14, 2012, 06:28:35 am

Why would somebody start a day off with a FoS on lylo? So you can cast doubt on me without being the first one to just jump on me. Scumwise Scumgee.

Oh god more WIFOM.

How?

Quote from: Dariush on February 14, 2012, 08:01:49 am

Are you really that afraid of taking even such an insignificant stance, Andrew?

Then what do you make of Phantom of the Library only throwing an FoS out to start the day?

If you have a problem with Andrew425 not voting, then why don't you have one with Phantom of the Library for that?

Phantom of the Library, all game long your list of suspects have been the people attacking you. Why? Are you so interested in self-preservation that you only bother going after the people who are going after you?

Quote from: Phantom of The Library on February 15, 2012, 08:36:33 am

I started with an FoS because it is lylo, and I didn't want to misplace my vote, so I decided to put a little pressure on the person who I found to be the most suspicious, namely Andrew425. I put a little pressure on you and you immediately attack me, just what I would expect scum to do.  You have 12 hours to convince me that you're not scum.

If you were going for pressure, what the hell for? You already suspected Andrew425 and apparently have lots of reasons for thinking that way. Why not start with a vote?

Throwing down an FoS at the start of lylo makes you look timid, like you don't want to be the first person to vote. This makes me think you're scum.

Saying that Andrew425 did just what you expected scum to do sounds a lot like you're just making shit up to justify your vote. How is it that attacking you for an FoS instead of a vote is exactly what scum would do? Explain this to me.

Quote from: Phantom of The Library on February 16, 2012, 06:50:22 pm

Reasons

Why are so many of these borrowed straight from Dariush without even a summary or a paraphrase by you?

Seems lazy to me. Are you getting lazy? You can see the end of the game in sight, you think the game's already won, time to relax a bit, kick up your shoes, not come up with strong reasons for a vote?

Quote from: zombie urist on February 13, 2012, 11:10:41 pm

Votes still on Andrew425. Reasons are strong overreaction to criticism at beginning of game, really weak reasons earlier on Strategia, lots of concern with his image as a town and recently a change in demeanor. He also hasn't posted a while, even before the night phase.

I'd like to see some posts that show this.

Also, on Day 1: Why the focus on pressuring people who made obvious mistakes with formatting?

Quote from: Andrew425 on February 16, 2012, 12:57:22 am

Reasons will come later

I'm waiting.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 3
Post by: Andrew425 on February 17, 2012, 12:22:18 am

Quote from: Phantom of The Library on February 16, 2012, 06:50:22 pm

My Reasons For Voting For Andrew425, Otherwise Known As Scum:

My reasons for voting Phantom is this.

You have yet to actually come up for a reason for voting anyone in this game. You take other people arguments and use them as your own, this means that you're scum who can't think of their own arguments.

Point by point rebuttal to your attacks?

First: I don't know why you quoted that as it means absolutely nothing

Second: I mixed you and Zombie up.

Third: Using Dariush's horrible arguments as your own, scum?

Fourth: I attacked him because he was doing a terrible job at it.

Fifth: I attacked you because you're uncomfortable calling someone out as scum. Which is one of the biggest scum tells in the book

Sixth: I was afraid the day would end before I got a chance to vote as I was busy that night.

So not only are all you attacks wrong. They're scum tells. So that is why I know you're scum.

Quote from: Dariush on February 14, 2012, 08:01:49 am

Quote from: Andrew425 on February 14, 2012, 06:28:35 am

I already suspect Dariush but I don't have any concrete evidence so I will go after his scum buddy. Which is you.

So, do you or don't think I'm scum?

I think you're scum. I think Phantom is scummier.

Quote from: Dariush on February 14, 2012, 08:01:49 am

Quote from: Andrew425 on February 14, 2012, 06:28:35 am

Why would somebody start a day off with a FoS on lylo? So you can cast doubt on me without being the first one to just jump on me. Scumwise Scumgee.

Oh god more WIFOM.

Jim already asked this, but how is this WIFOM? Why have you been always so quick to call stuff WIFOM?

Quote from: Dariush on February 14, 2012, 08:01:49 am

Quote from: Andrew425 on February 14, 2012, 06:28:35 am

I think it is lylo.

Wrong. It is LYLO. Are you really that afraid of taking even such an insignificant stance, Andrew?

I wasn't 100% sure so I said it like that. Fairly flimsy attack isn't that?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 3
Post by: zombie urist on February 17, 2012, 01:41:52 am

Quote from: Jim Groovester on February 16, 2012, 07:20:48 pm

I'd like to see some posts that show this.
Also, on Day 1: Why the focus on pressuring people who made obvious mistakes with formatting?

Here are some of posts which I think are pertinent. 1 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=98714.msg2916992#msg2916992) 2 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=98714.msg2919449#msg2919449) 3 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=98714.msg2924491#msg2924491) (most recent example) (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=98714.msg2984681#msg2984681) When someone else questions him, he retorts back in a defensive way with a question of his own.
Contrast those posts with this one (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=98714.msg2956628#msg2956628) or this one. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=98714.msg2964122#msg2964122) I feel the tone is different.

I just used the the mistake to start conversation. If he hadn't responded in such a defensive manner, I would have let it drop.

Quote from: Andrew425 on February 17, 2012, 12:22:18 am

Second: I mixed you and Zombie up.

So not only are all you attacks wrong. They're scum tells. So that is why I know you're scum.

Are you saying that I 'tried the bandwagon'? Also, I don't see most of those rebuttals as scumtells.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 3
Post by: Dariush on February 17, 2012, 08:37:42 am

Quote from: Jim Groovester on February 16, 2012, 07:20:48 pm

Quote from: Dariush on February 14, 2012, 08:01:49 am

Quote from: Andrew425 on February 14, 2012, 06:28:35 am

Why would somebody start a day off with a FoS on lylo? So you can cast doubt on me without being the first one to just jump on me. Scumwise Scumgee.

Oh god more WIFOM.

How?

His second sentence may or may not be right, but he assumes it is.

Quote from: Jim Groovester on February 16, 2012, 07:20:48 pm

Quote from: Dariush on February 14, 2012, 08:01:49 am

Are you really that afraid of taking even such an insignificant stance, Andrew?

Then what do you make of Phantom of the Library only throwing an FoS out to start the day?

Caution. It would be suspicious in an experienced player, but not in a BM.

Quote from: Andrew425 on February 17, 2012, 12:22:18 am

Jim already asked this, but how is this WIFOM? Why have you been always so quick to call stuff WIFOM?

Because a lot of stuff you say is WIFOM.

Quote from: Andrew425 on February 17, 2012, 12:22:18 am

I wasn't 100% sure so I said it like that. Fairly flimsy attack isn't that?

How can you not be sure whether or not it is LYLO if we clearly know the number of scum?

Phantom, out of your six arguments two directly quote from me and another one consists of defending me. Why are you trying to hide behind IC's authority?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 3
Post by: Jim Groovester on February 17, 2012, 05:50:40 pm

Extend because I'm not going to be here for the deadline and want more time and Phantom of the Library in case there's no extension.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 3
Post by: Phantom of The Library on February 17, 2012, 07:38:01 pm

Quote from: Jim Groovester on February 16, 2012, 07:20:48 pm

Phantom of the Library, all game long your list of suspects have been the people attacking you. Why? Are you so interested in self-preservation that you only bother going after the people who are going after you?

It's merely a coincidence that the people who went after me were scummy.
In some cases their attack on me confirmed my suspicions that they were scum, or added more evidence to my suspicions, which were confirmed by their actions afterwards. I could care less about my image, if I did then I would be less aggressive not more, all I care about right now is making sure that the scum, namely Andrew4scum5, is lynched so we don't lose.

Quote from: Andrew425 on February 17, 2012, 12:22:18 am

Quote from: Phantom of The Library on February 15, 2012, 08:36:33 am

I started with an FoS because it is lylo, and I didn't want to misplace my vote, so I decided to put a little pressure on the person who I found to be the most suspicious, namely Andrew425. I put a little pressure on you and you immediately attack me, just what I would expect scum to do.  You have 12 hours to convince me that you're not scum.

If you were going for pressure, what the hell for? You already suspected Andrew425 and apparently have lots of reasons for thinking that way. Why not start with a vote?

Throwing down an FoS at the start of lylo makes you look timid, like you don't want to be the first person to vote. This makes me think you're scum.

Saying that Andrew425 did just what you expected scum to do sounds a lot like you're just making shit up to justify your vote. How is it that attacking you for an FoS instead of a vote is exactly what scum would do? Explain this to me.

I started out with an FoS, because I thought that since it was LYLO we should only vote if we are completely sure, so I decided to do one last test to see if he was the scum.  His reaction seems scummy to me because he immediately attacked me and called me scum after I put pressure on him, when he had been completely neutral before and gave no indication that he thought that I was scum, other than his earlier false accusations, which he redacted and claimed to be a mistake.

Quote from: Jim Groovester on February 16, 2012, 07:20:48 pm

Quote from: Phantom of The Library on February 16, 2012, 06:50:22 pm

Reasons

Why are so many of these borrowed straight from Dariush without even a summary or a paraphrase by you?

Seems lazy to me. Are you getting lazy? You can see the end of the game in sight, you think the game's already won, time to relax a bit, kick up your shoes, not come up with strong reasons for a vote?

They are borrowed from Dariush because I thought that what he said sufficiently summed up what I was going to, and I knew that people were going to accuse me of taking arguments from an IC anyway, as many of my cases have already been stated before the ICs before I had a chance to, so I might as well directly quote one.  At the end of my post I will detail my reasons for thinking that Andrew is scum in more depth.

---

Quote from: Andrew425 on February 17, 2012, 12:22:18 am

First: I don't know why you quoted that as it means absolutely nothing

The main point of the quote is the WIFOM and your shaky accusations.

Quote from: Andrew425 on February 17, 2012, 12:22:18 am

Second: I mixed you and Zombie up.

This is what you say.

Quote from: Andrew425 on February 17, 2012, 12:22:18 am

Third: Using Dariush's horrible arguments as your own, scum?

Please explain how they are horrible.

Quote from: Andrew425 on February 17, 2012, 12:22:18 am

Fourth: I attacked him because he was doing a terrible job at it.

The quality of his ICing has nothing to do with whether or not he's scum.

Quote from: Andrew425 on February 17, 2012, 12:22:18 am

Fifth: I attacked you because you're uncomfortable calling someone out as scum. Which is one of the biggest scum tells in the book

I've been perfectly fine with calling people scum, I've done it plenty of times. Scum. I don't see anywhere I seem uncomfortable calling people such.

Quote from: Andrew425 on February 17, 2012, 12:22:18 am

Sixth: I was afraid the day would end before I got a chance to vote as I was busy that night.

So then what were your reasons then?  All I see right now is you attacking my last post, and a single accusation of unoriginality.

Quote from: Andrew425 on February 17, 2012, 12:22:18 am

So not only are all you attacks wrong. They're scum tells. So that is why I know you're scum.

Please explain how these are scum-tells, I fail to see it.  I also fail to see how they are wrong.

---

Quote from: Dariush on February 17, 2012, 08:37:42 am

Phantom, out of your six arguments two directly quote from me and another one consists of defending me. Why are you trying to hide behind IC's authority?

No, most of Andrew's actions that have revealed him as scum, were in his interactions with you, thus the large presence of you in my reasons, also see above for why I used you to paraphrase.

---

For the first reason:
He provided an extremely weak argument as to why he was voting, as he has done again just now.
He also produced one of his many cases of WIFOM.

The second:
He attacked me on false premises and then he backed off after he was called out on it.

The third:
More WIFOM as he has been prone to trying to give out the entire game, and he tried to avoid taking any significant stance whatsoever.

The fourth:
An IC's ability to IC has nothing to do with whether or not they are scum, you're simply trying to look for a reason to cast suspicion on somebody.

The sixth:
Already explained.

The sixth:
He OMGUSed, the moment I actually voted for him he did so in return, correct me if I'm wrong, but this is a very obvious scum-tell.


All in all he seems to have no reason for his arguments and simply makes up reasons to justify them, since there are no actual pieces of evidence to back up his claims.  In addition, he attempts to spread confusion whenever possible, via WIFOM.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 3
Post by: Phantom of The Library on February 17, 2012, 09:16:10 pm

Also,
I vote for Extension because if I die, then we lose, and I can't let that happen, especially when I know that Andrew is scum.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 3
Post by: zombie urist on February 17, 2012, 10:45:33 pm

Extend

I'll do a reread over weekend.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 3
Post by: Tiruin on February 19, 2012, 11:14:31 pm

Sorry, just wondering when the day ends as the Mod didn't say when (or edit it in).

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 3
Post by: webadict on February 20, 2012, 12:15:14 am

Day is Extended until Tuesday.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 3
Post by: Jim Groovester on February 20, 2012, 05:44:33 am

Quote from: Dariush on February 17, 2012, 08:37:42 am

Quote from: Jim Groovester on February 16, 2012, 07:20:48 pm

Quote from: Dariush on February 14, 2012, 08:01:49 am

Quote from: Andrew425 on February 14, 2012, 06:28:35 am

Why would somebody start a day off with a FoS on lylo? So you can cast doubt on me without being the first one to just jump on me. Scumwise Scumgee.

Oh god more WIFOM.

How?

His second sentence may or may not be right, but he assumes it is.

Players make judgments about the motives behind other players' actions all the time. Nobody calls it WIFOM.

Quote from: Dariush on February 17, 2012, 08:37:42 am

Quote from: Jim Groovester on February 16, 2012, 07:20:48 pm

Quote from: Dariush on February 14, 2012, 08:01:49 am

Are you really that afraid of taking even such an insignificant stance, Andrew?

Then what do you make of Phantom of the Library only throwing an FoS out to start the day?

Caution. It would be suspicious in an experienced player, but not in a BM.

Why is Phantom of the Library cautious but Andrew425 is afraid of taking a stance, even an insignificant one?

It's the same goddamn behavior. Why are you treating it differently?

Quote from: Dariush on February 17, 2012, 08:37:42 am

Phantom, out of your six arguments two directly quote from me and another one consists of defending me. Why are you trying to hide behind IC's authority?

Why the change of mind? This is lylo. I want a more extensive breakdown of your reasons, because right now, you don't look like you really care so long as you get somebody.

Quote from: Phantom of The Library on February 17, 2012, 07:38:01 pm

I could care less about my image, if I did then I would be less aggressive not more, all I care about right now is making sure that the scum, namely Andrew4scum5, is lynched so we don't lose.

If you didn't care about it, you wouldn't mention it, because I certainly didn't.

Quote from: Phantom of The Library on February 17, 2012, 07:38:01 pm

I started out with an FoS, because I thought that since it was LYLO we should only vote if we are completely sure, so I decided to do one last test to see if he was the scum.  His reaction seems scummy to me because he immediately attacked me and called me scum after I put pressure on him, when he had been completely neutral before and gave no indication that he thought that I was scum, other than his earlier false accusations, which he redacted and claimed to be a mistake.

You FoSed somebody at lylo, somebody you apparently suspected. There's a discrepancy between your words and your actions. A vote reflects suspicion; not having the former when the latter is present is odd, curious, notable, attention-worthy, and suspicious.

What would have been the right way for him to respond? I've got a feeling you don't know, because there was no way he could've responded that wouldn't have confirmed your suspicions.

Quote from: Phantom of The Library on February 17, 2012, 07:38:01 pm

They are borrowed from Dariush because I thought that what he said sufficiently summed up what I was going to, and I knew that people were going to accuse me of taking arguments from an IC anyway, as many of my cases have already been stated before the ICs before I had a chance to, so I might as well directly quote one.  At the end of my post I will detail my reasons for thinking that Andrew is scum in more depth.

So, no point even paraphrasing them at all? If you're going to get accused of something, you might as well make sure that people are going to be completely right about it?

That's stupid.

Quote from: Phantom of The Library on February 17, 2012, 07:38:01 pm

The second:
He attacked me on false premises and then he backed off after he was called out on it.

If you assume that everything anybody does in a game of mafia is a deliberate, calculated move, you will be very, very surprised to learn how wrong you are.

Quote from: Phantom of The Library on February 17, 2012, 07:38:01 pm

The sixth:
He OMGUSed, the moment I actually voted for him he did so in return, correct me if I'm wrong, but this is a very obvious scum-tell.

Not really. OMGUS is probably one of the most meaningless scum tells ever. It's pretty much never right.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 3
Post by: Dariush on February 20, 2012, 08:12:37 am

Quote from: Jim Groovester on February 20, 2012, 05:44:33 am

Players make judgments about the motives behind other players' actions all the time. Nobody calls it WIFOM.

It is not WIFOM when the judgement has some clear purpose behind it, not vaguely philosophizing for the sake of it.

Quote from: Jim Groovester on February 20, 2012, 05:44:33 am

Why is Phantom of the Library cautious but Andrew425 is afraid of taking a stance, even an insignificant one?

It's the same goddamn behavior. Why are you treating it differently?

Andrew's 'I think it is LYLO' is more, probably intentionally, vague. Since we know the number of both town and scum, we know for sure it is LYLO.

Quote from: Jim Groovester on February 20, 2012, 05:44:33 am

Why the change of mind? This is lylo. I want a more extensive breakdown of your reasons, because right now, you don't look like you really care so long as you get somebody.

Firstly, extend. Secondly, my Phantom vote was mostly pressure, since I wanted to know why he is using me for cover.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 3
Post by: Phantom of The Library on February 20, 2012, 08:39:54 pm

Quote from: Jim Groovester on February 20, 2012, 05:44:33 am

Quote from: Phantom of The Library on February 17, 2012, 07:38:01 pm

I could care less about my image, if I did then I would be less aggressive not more, all I care about right now is making sure that the scum, namely Andrew4scum5, is lynched so we don't lose.

If you didn't care about it, you wouldn't mention it, because I certainly didn't.

You gave the impression that you did though, and I wanted to get back to lynching Andrew as soon as possible, not mentioning it, I felt, would look like I was ignoring the accusation.

Quote from: Jim Groovester on February 20, 2012, 05:44:33 am

Quote from: Phantom of The Library on February 17, 2012, 07:38:01 pm

I started out with an FoS, because I thought that since it was LYLO we should only vote if we are completely sure, so I decided to do one last test to see if he was the scum.  His reaction seems scummy to me because he immediately attacked me and called me scum after I put pressure on him, when he had been completely neutral before and gave no indication that he thought that I was scum, other than his earlier false accusations, which he redacted and claimed to be a mistake.

You FoSed somebody at lylo, somebody you apparently suspected. There's a discrepancy between your words and your actions. A vote reflects suspicion; not having the former when the latter is present is odd, curious, notable, attention-worthy, and suspicious.

What would have been the right way for him to respond? I've got a feeling you don't know, because there was no way he could've responded that wouldn't have confirmed your suspicions.

I was under the impression that a vote, when in LYLO, meant that you were completely sure.
If he had responded more moderately or continued to go after Dariush or urist like he had been doing, then I would have looked over everything again to see who I thought was the most scummy, more carefully reviewing.  After researching, my vote would have landed on him anyway though.

Quote from: Jim Groovester on February 20, 2012, 05:44:33 am

Quote from: Phantom of The Library on February 17, 2012, 07:38:01 pm

They are borrowed from Dariush because I thought that what he said sufficiently summed up what I was going to, and I knew that people were going to accuse me of taking arguments from an IC anyway, as many of my cases have already been stated before the ICs before I had a chance to, so I might as well directly quote one.  At the end of my post I will detail my reasons for thinking that Andrew is scum in more depth.

So, no point even paraphrasing them at all? If you're going to get accused of something, you might as well make sure that people are going to be completely right about it?

That's stupid.

Now that you've made me think about it, it was illogical thinking on my part.  Still, I believe that the large majority of my case is valid.

Quote from: Jim Groovester on February 20, 2012, 05:44:33 am

Quote from: Phantom of The Library on February 17, 2012, 07:38:01 pm

The second:
He attacked me on false premises and then he backed off after he was called out on it.

If you assume that everything anybody does in a game of mafia is a deliberate, calculated move, you will be very, very surprised to learn how wrong you are.

This question is meant as an IC question: isn't that the entire point of mafia though?  Deliberate, calculated moves?  How am I  supposed to accuse anybody if I don't assume that their every move is carefully calculated?

Quote from: Jim Groovester on February 20, 2012, 05:44:33 am

Quote from: Phantom of The Library on February 17, 2012, 07:38:01 pm

The sixth:
He OMGUSed, the moment I actually voted for him he did so in return, correct me if I'm wrong, but this is a very obvious scum-tell.

Not really. OMGUS is probably one of the most meaningless scum tells ever. It's pretty much never right.

Thank you for correcting me on such, I will avoid putting so much weight on it in the future.

---

Quote from: Dariush on February 20, 2012, 08:12:37 am

Quote from: Jim Groovester on February 20, 2012, 05:44:33 am

Why the change of mind? This is lylo. I want a more extensive breakdown of your reasons, because right now, you don't look like you really care so long as you get somebody.

Firstly, extend. Secondly, my Phantom vote was mostly pressure, since I wanted to know why he is using me for cover.

If the vote was pressure, then why did you leave it there where it would have killed me if there hadn't been an extension?  Moreover, why have you not redacted it if it was a pressure vote?

---

Andrew425, zombie urist where are you?

---

PPE: Jim and Dariush, could both of you please explain your reasons behind your voting me?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 3
Post by: zombie urist on February 20, 2012, 09:51:41 pm

Quote from: Phantom of The Library on February 20, 2012, 08:39:54 pm

Andrew425, zombie urist where are you?

Weekend + President's day = time away from computer. I did do a reread though. Also lets have another extension.

Quote from: Dariush on February 20, 2012, 08:12:37 am

Andrew's 'I think it is LYLO' is more, probably intentionally, vague. Since we know the number of both town and scum, we know for sure it is LYLO.
Firstly, extend. Secondly, my Phantom vote was mostly pressure, since I wanted to know why he is using me for cover.

Andrew actually says 'This is lylo' at the bottom of his post. Also, I don't understand what you mean by using you for cover.

Quote from: Phantom of The Library on February 17, 2012, 07:38:01 pm

In some cases their attack on me confirmed my suspicions that they were scum, or added more evidence to my suspicions, which were confirmed by their actions afterwards. I could care less about my image, if I did then I would be less aggressive not more, all I care about right now is making sure that the scum, namely Andrew4scum5, is lynched so we don't lose.

It's funny how Strategia turned up town. I don't see how anyone's role can be confirmed in this game unless you are cop, which you aren't, or they die.
So far your entire game plan has been pressure votes, then accuse them of attacking you on false premises. And it hasn't worked so far.

Quote from: Phantom of The Library on February 20, 2012, 08:39:54 pm

This question is meant as an IC question: isn't that the entire point of mafia though?  Deliberate, calculated moves?  How am I  supposed to accuse anybody if I don't assume that their every move is carefully calculated?

This question doesn't make sense to me. If you assume everyone's moves are perfectly calculated (which is impossible) then there would be no scumtells, or any mistakes that could be used for accusation.

Quote from: Andrew425 on February 17, 2012, 12:22:18 am

My reasons for voting Phantom is this.
You have yet to actually come up for a reason for voting anyone in this game. You take other people arguments and use them as your own, this means that you're scum who can't think of their own arguments.

I count this as only one reason and ironically this was borrowed from Jim.

Quote from: Jim Groovester on February 20, 2012, 05:44:33 am

Quote from: Dariush on February 17, 2012, 08:37:42 am

Quote from: Jim Groovester on February 16, 2012, 07:20:48 pm

Quote from: Dariush on February 14, 2012, 08:01:49 am

Are you really that afraid of taking even such an insignificant stance, Andrew?

Then what do you make of Phantom of the Library only throwing an FoS out to start the day?

Caution. It would be suspicious in an experienced player, but not in a BM.

Why is Phantom of the Library cautious but Andrew425 is afraid of taking a stance, even an insignificant one?
It's the same goddamn behavior. Why are you treating it differently?

It's interesting how Andrew's stance (whether or not it is lylo) is much less significant than Phantom's.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 3
Post by: Jim Groovester on February 21, 2012, 02:10:47 am

Quote from: Dariush on February 20, 2012, 08:12:37 am

Quote from: Jim Groovester on February 20, 2012, 05:44:33 am

Players make judgments about the motives behind other players' actions all the time. Nobody calls it WIFOM.

It is not WIFOM when the judgement has some clear purpose behind it, not vaguely philosophizing for the sake of it.

'Phantom of the Library is scum' isn't a clear purpose? It looks like a pretty fucking clear purpose to me.

And this is where I start suspecting you because you're being inconsistent and not making any sense.

Quote from: Dariush on February 20, 2012, 08:12:37 am

Quote from: Jim Groovester on February 20, 2012, 05:44:33 am

Why is Phantom of the Library cautious but Andrew425 is afraid of taking a stance, even an insignificant one?

It's the same goddamn behavior. Why are you treating it differently?

Andrew's 'I think it is LYLO' is more, probably intentionally, vague. Since we know the number of both town and scum, we know for sure it is LYLO.

This doesn't answer my question.

Why are you describing Phantom of the Library more favorably and Andrew425 less so when their behavior is basically the same? They both opened lylo with statements about their suspicions but did not vote.

Andrew425 being vague about whether it's lylo seems completely insignificant.

Quote from: Dariush on February 20, 2012, 08:12:37 am

Quote from: Jim Groovester on February 20, 2012, 05:44:33 am

Why the change of mind? This is lylo. I want a more extensive breakdown of your reasons, because right now, you don't look like you really care so long as you get somebody.

Firstly, extend. Secondly, my Phantom vote was mostly pressure, since I wanted to know why he is using me for cover.

What was your vote on Andrew425 then? Was that for pressure?

Who do you actually suspect then?

I asked for a more extensive breakdown of your reasoning and you gave me a single line.

Quote from: Phantom of The Library on February 20, 2012, 08:39:54 pm

Quote from: Dariush on February 20, 2012, 08:12:37 am

Firstly, extend. Secondly, my Phantom vote was mostly pressure, since I wanted to know why he is using me for cover.

If the vote was pressure, then why did you leave it there where it would have killed me if there hadn't been an extension?  Moreover, why have you not redacted it if it was a pressure vote?

There's also this point that Phantom of the Library brought up that I'm very interested to hear the answer to.

Quote from: zombie urist on February 20, 2012, 09:51:41 pm

It's interesting how Andrew's stance (whether or not it is lylo) is much less significant than Phantom's.

Is there a point you're trying to make?

Quote from: Andrew425 on February 17, 2012, 12:22:18 am

You have yet to actually come up for a reason for voting anyone in this game. You take other people arguments and use them as your own, this means that you're scum who can't think of their own arguments.

This is weak. Where are your strong arguments?

Quote from: Phantom of The Library on February 20, 2012, 08:39:54 pm

I was under the impression that a vote, when in LYLO, meant that you were completely sure.
If he had responded more moderately or continued to go after Dariush or urist like he had been doing, then I would have looked over everything again to see who I thought was the most scummy, more carefully reviewing.  After researching, my vote would have landed on him anyway though.

You'll never be completely sure about any vote. You can have very strong feelings about it, but you'll never be able to be completely sure. That said, if you suspect someone, then that's where your vote should be. Your vote should represent your best guess about who's scum, and you better have good reasons for thinking that way and be able to provide them.

If Andrew425 was your best guess, you should have voted him. If you weren't so sure, then you should've held back and see what a round of questioning turned up.

Your problem is that you used an FoS. It means you suspected him, and therefore you should have voted him. If you didn't want to vote him right then and there, then you shouldn't have made any statement about your suspicions and it would have been clear to everyone that you were trying to make up your mind. This being lylo, nobody would have faulted you for taking time in making a decision.

Quote from: Phantom of The Library on February 20, 2012, 08:39:54 pm

This question is meant as an IC question: isn't that the entire point of mafia though?  Deliberate, calculated moves?  How am I  supposed to accuse anybody if I don't assume that their every move is carefully calculated?

But people never act in a completely deliberate and calculated manner so it's a moot point.

You can still accuse people because they slip up. This is why you look at everything they've said and done and ask them tough questions, because they may not have been as tight with their game as they should've been, and you can bring these mistakes out to light for everyone to look at.

Quote from: Phantom of The Library on February 20, 2012, 08:39:54 pm

PPE: Jim and Dariush, could both of you please explain your reasons behind your voting me?

Timidity going into lylo, not willing to vote the people you say you suspect.

The more I question you the more I think these mistakes are because you're new instead of because you're scum.

Unvote for now and extend.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 3
Post by: zombie urist on February 22, 2012, 02:00:22 am

Theres no point of having so many extends if no one's going to play...

Quote from: Jim Groovester on February 21, 2012, 02:10:47 am

Quote from: Dariush on February 20, 2012, 08:12:37 am

Quote from: Jim Groovester on February 20, 2012, 05:44:33 am

Why the change of mind? This is lylo. I want a more extensive breakdown of your reasons, because right now, you don't look like you really care so long as you get somebody.

Firstly, extend. Secondly, my Phantom vote was mostly pressure, since I wanted to know why he is using me for cover.

What was your vote on Andrew425 then? Was that for pressure?

Yeah this is making me wonder if you (Daruish) have any real leads on scum, especially this late in the game.

Quote

Quote from: zombie urist on February 20, 2012, 09:51:41 pm

It's interesting how Andrew's stance (whether or not it is lylo) is much less significant than Phantom's.

Is there a point you're trying to make?

It would make sense for Phantom to be more cautious about voting someone wrongly than for Andrew to be worried about whether or not its LYLO.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 3
Post by: Andrew425 on February 22, 2012, 02:32:02 am

Extend

I'm really busy right now

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 3
Post by: webadict on February 22, 2012, 08:28:07 am

You guys have extended like 50 times. You might want to consider actually playing during that time. You have until 9 PM tonight to get posting, otherwise the Day ends then.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 3
Post by: Dariush on February 22, 2012, 11:07:47 am

Quote from: Jim Groovester on February 21, 2012, 02:10:47 am

'Phantom of the Library is scum' isn't a clear purpose? It looks like a pretty fucking clear purpose to me.

And this is where I start suspecting you because you're being inconsistent and not making any sense.

_{Being taken for scum while ICing in a BM, what a great achievement in my Mafia career.}
What I'm saying is: beginning the day with a FoS may or may not be 'casting the doubt and so on'. Andrew didn't continue that line of thinking and didn't even vote Phantom, thus he didn't have what I called 'clear purpose'.

Quote from: Jim Groovester on February 21, 2012, 02:10:47 am

This doesn't answer my question.

Why are you describing Phantom of the Library more favorably and Andrew425 less so when their behavior is basically the same? They both opened lylo with statements about their suspicions but did not vote.

Andrew made a vague statement about the possiblity of LYLO and didn't neither vote nor FoS Phantom, kinda activelurkily drifting by the beginning of the day. Phantom, however, despite admittedly PFPing, made two solid questions. I doubt that can be considered the same behavior.

Quote from: Jim Groovester on February 21, 2012, 02:10:47 am

What was your vote on Andrew425 then? Was that for pressure?

Who do you actually suspect then?

I asked for a more extensive breakdown of your reasoning and you gave me a single line.

Right now I'm sure that either Phantom or Andrew are scum. At first I didn't suspect Phantom, but him using me for cover changed my mind, so I pressured him, especially since Andrew's mistakes, in retrospect, seemed like something Toaster wouldn't advise to do. Phantom's answer satisified me, so Andrew it is.

Quote from: Jim Groovester on February 21, 2012, 02:10:47 am

There's also this point that Phantom of the Library brought up that I'm very interested to hear the answer to.

I think I missed Phantom's response when I made my previous post.

Quote from: zombie urist on February 20, 2012, 09:51:41 pm

Andrew actually says 'This is lylo' at the bottom of his post.

Sure he does, after saying that he thinks it is LYLO. Sure, that is not much, but hesitance is evident.

Quote from: zombie urist on February 20, 2012, 09:51:41 pm

Also, I don't understand what you mean by using you for cover.

Half of his arguments directly referred to me and how Andrew was scum for attacking me.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 3
Post by: Jim Groovester on February 22, 2012, 07:45:25 pm

Ehhhhhhh I can't really make up my mind. I suppose I like a declaration that somebody is scum without a vote less than I like an FoS to start out lylo.

Andrew425.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 3
Post by: zombie urist on February 23, 2012, 12:20:00 am

Quote from: webadict on February 22, 2012, 08:28:07 am

You guys have extended like 50 times. You might want to consider actually playing during that time. You have until 9 PM tonight to get posting, otherwise the Day ends then.

To be fair several of those extensions were on your end.  :P

Quote from: Dariush on February 22, 2012, 11:07:47 am

What I'm saying is: beginning the day with a FoS may or may not be 'casting the doubt and so on'. Andrew didn't continue that line of thinking and didn't even vote Phantom, thus he didn't have what I called 'clear purpose'.

But Andrew did vote Phantom in this post (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=98714.msg2993725#msg2993725) and continued here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=98714.msg2997884#msg2997884) before drifting away from the game. I don't understand what your getting at, especially about 'clear purpose'.

Well right now all 4 of us have votes on Andrew425 and it doesn't look like he'll be talking soon...

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 3
Post by: Andrew425 on February 23, 2012, 02:21:02 am

Sorry guys I haven't been active.

Phantom you seem newish, and I don't really have anything against you.

Unvote

I guess Webs going to end the game, but here's my shot at helping the town.

Jim

Why have you been such a prolific chainsawer? You've been defending me the whole game. At first I thought that you were just pointing out inconsistencies with the other people's arguments but you've spent 3/4 of your last posts just defending me. I can see no reason why a townie would ever defend someone to that extreme.

So i'm calling you out.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 3
Post by: Jim Groovester on February 23, 2012, 02:48:40 am

The whole game, huh? You mean lylo. Because I have not been defending you the whole game.

And the only reason I was 'defending' you was because I was closely examining everybody's arguments and challenging them to see what turns up, which is exactly what you should be doing at lylo.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Day 3
Post by: Dariush on February 23, 2012, 05:08:57 am

Quote from: zombie urist on February 23, 2012, 12:20:00 am

Well right now all 4 of us have votes on Andrew425 and it doesn't look like he'll be talking soon...

Scum celebrating their victory?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Night 2
Post by: webadict on February 23, 2012, 10:38:02 am

As I was walking back into the bar, something caught my eye. It was several makeshift graves, each more poorly constructed than the last. The last two didn't even have names. I looked at the other ones...

Louisa Laskey
Tanisha Thalleau
Melisa Minarik
Grace Guilbeau
Maricela Mitcham
Dollie Denbow
Penelope Pereda

"The last two," said the Sheriff, who had just recently appeared, "are Whitney Whalley and Margery Mendelson. They're the ones that actually took the gold."

The nameless graves were too shallow. "Did you ever catch them?"

"No. The town was so desperate that they just killed everyone they could think of. No investigation. Nothing. And that's why these two got away."

The sun was now setting. I turned to go inside, but the Sheriff stayed. I didn't see him come back in.

I left town the next day. It still felt just as empty as when I entered it.

Vote Count
------------------------
Andrew425 - zombie urist, Dariush, Jim Groovester,
Phantom of The Library -
zombie urist -
Jim Groovester - Andrew425,
Dariush -

Not Voting - Phantom of The Library,

Day Ends Friday 9 PM Central.

Andrew425 has been lynched!

Andrew425 was a Townie (town).

Game Over! Phantom of the Library and zombie urist win!

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Game Over! Mafia Win!
Post by: ansontan2000 on February 23, 2012, 10:41:28 am

I was Tanisha. At least I got second best grave *grumble grumble*

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Game Over! Mafia Win!
Post by: Dariush on February 23, 2012, 11:22:51 am

Gah. For half of the last day my gut was screaming at me that zombie was scum, but I couldn't find any solid case against him. I predict a bright future for you on this forum. ;)

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Game Over! Mafia Win!
Post by: webadict on February 23, 2012, 01:02:00 pm

Cop got blocked and killed.

He inspected both scum. Neither were Godfather.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Game Over! Mafia Win!
Post by: Jim Groovester on February 23, 2012, 01:03:56 pm

FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFf-

Good game, everyone. Being alive at lylo made this one of the more interesting Beginner's Mafias for me.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Game Over! Mafia Win!
Post by: Toaster on February 23, 2012, 01:12:27 pm

It worked, too- you two were beginning to suspect each other.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Game Over! Mafia Win!
Post by: Andrew425 on February 23, 2012, 04:39:19 pm

The last few days I was thinking

It must be Dariush, his scum partner is probably Urist.

It must be Phantom, his scum partner is probably Urist.

It's gotta be Jim, why has he been alive for so long? His scum partner is probably Urist.

Ya, the fact that the IC's weren't dying kinda freaked me out.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Game Over! Mafia Win!
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on February 23, 2012, 04:42:41 pm

Can we see the scumchat?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Game Over! Mafia Win!
Post by: Phantom of The Library on February 23, 2012, 05:10:43 pm

Happy, so happy we won~~  :D

So first off, I would like to apologize to Strategia, it was really hard on me to attack him like that. 

Second I would like to say, that, while I really enjoy Mafia, it's very hard on me, like Chaos I find it hard to insult anybody, unless I'm angry at them, (which is ridiculously rare, but it does happen) or it's in a game setting, even then it's a bit on the hard side.  So I might be taking a break before I do any more, it wears me out a bit emotionally.

Third, I was wondering if the IC(s), mod and/or any of the experienced watchers could give an analyzation of my play.  I really want to know how well I did and any flaws I need to correct.

And finally, would you recommend that I do another BM, or do you think that I'm ready for a full game?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Game Over! Mafia Win!
Post by: zombie urist on February 23, 2012, 07:03:03 pm

Good game guys :)

Here is scumchat. http://www.quicktopic.com/47/H/kSrUWePWFu8v

Quote from: Phantom of The Library on February 23, 2012, 05:10:43 pm

Second I would like to say, that, while I really enjoy Mafia, it's very hard on me, like Chaos I find it hard to insult anybody, unless I'm angry at them, (which is ridiculously rare, but it does happen) or it's in a game setting, even then it's a bit on the hard side.  So I might be taking a break before I do any more, it wears me out a bit emotionally.

Yeah same here. To be honest this is why I became less and less active in my previous game.

Quote from: Dariush on February 23, 2012, 11:22:51 am

Gah. For half of the last day my gut was screaming at me that zombie was scum, but I couldn't find any solid case against him. I predict a bright future for you on this forum. ;)

Thanks! :D

Quote from: Andrew425 on February 23, 2012, 04:39:19 pm

Ya, the fact that the IC's weren't dying kinda freaked me out.

One of the things I especially like to do when playing as scum is to nightkill people who aren't expected to be killed. In fact, if Phantom died I probably would have NK'd you just to stir up the game some more. Although people aren't supposed to think about NKs as it causes WIFOM, theres always some people who do and it always causes some WIFOM. I kind of felt bad for killing Klingon's replacement before he had a chance to play though.

I was really surprised when Strategia replaced in and pretty much immediately identified Phantom and I as scum. That scared me for quite a while.

I've had an interesting thought about playing D1 BMs now, which is to just ignore the role PM until the first night. Since there are no roles that can do anything during the day, it might be a good way to force yourselves to play as town. Also is there any chance I could mod a BM in the future?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Game Over! Mafia Win!
Post by: Toaster on February 23, 2012, 08:36:12 pm

Quote from: zombie urist on February 23, 2012, 07:03:03 pm

I've had an interesting thought about playing D1 BMs now, which is to just ignore the role PM until the first night. Since there are no roles that can do anything during the day, it might be a good way to force yourselves to play as town. Also is there any chance I could mod a BM in the future?

That's actually a good way to play.  I often type up my first post before reading my role PM.  The only time I change it afterwards is if I need to claim miller* which is something I personally do in my first post of the game if it applies.

You (or anyone) should probably get a couple more games under your belt before modding.

*A town role that investigates as scum

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Game Over! Mafia Win!
Post by: Strategia on February 23, 2012, 08:57:30 pm

Quote from: webadict on February 23, 2012, 10:38:02 am

Game Over! Phantom of the Library and zombie urist win!

HA!

Also, sorry for disappearing after my last post, I missed one update email and completely forgot about the game for a week =/ By the time I remembered to check, I felt it was too late even for a BAH! post. Still, it feels good to know that my initial hunch was entirely correct, even if I did approach it in entirely the wrong way. I'll be keeping an eye on this forum, and if another BM starts up, and I feel I can set aside the time and attention the game needs, I'll try again. It was a brief, but fun experience.

Quote from: Phantom of The Library on February 23, 2012, 05:10:43 pm

So first off, I would like to apologize to Strategia, it was really hard on me to attack him like that.

No hard feelings, it's part of the game. And hey, it worked. :P

Quote from: zombie urist on February 23, 2012, 07:03:03 pm

I was really surprised when Strategia replaced in and pretty much immediately identified Phantom and I as scum. That scared me for quite a while.

I picked Phantom basically for RVS, but then I had a hunch, that turned into a niggling suspicion at the back of my mind that wouldn't go away, that turned into..... well, me getting hanged. Could've had a better outcome, but yeah. The problem was that that niggling suspicion was basically all I had, like I said at some point; I strongly suspected you, but trying to formulate a line of questioning or evidence was like trying to grasp mist. That's literally what went through my mind when I thought about how to pressure you, I just couldn't form any kind of coherent argument as to why I was convinced you were scum.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Game Over! Mafia Win!
Post by: Tiruin on February 23, 2012, 10:09:45 pm

I KNEW IT. IT WAS PHANTOM AND ZOMBIE URIST!!!

. . .

I'm practically the worst cop ever.

Roleblock day 1: Phantom.

Day 2: Zombie Urist > NK

. . .

Thanks for the forewarning Mod Webadict. He PM'ed me this.

Quote from: webadict on February 13, 2012, 08:58:04 am

I feel bad for you man. You were totally unlucky.

Quote from: webadict on February 13, 2012, 09:01:57 am

You were killed, but do you want me to ruin the surprise for you?

Oh yes. The best cop ever. Now to read the scumchat and double post my concealed rage. [/sarcasm]

But still, good work scum. You fooled the town. Hurrah!

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Game Over! Mafia Win!
Post by: Toaster on February 23, 2012, 10:16:01 pm

Phantom:  You did a very good job of handling D3 pressure and getting it to go away.  Keeping calm and rational is an excellent way to not get lynched.   That, and "act like you are town" are the two best pieces of advice I can give to any aspiring mafioso.

I'm curious to see the post you didn't post.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Game Over! Mafia Win!
Post by: Tiruin on February 23, 2012, 10:20:17 pm

Quote from: Phantom of The Library on February 23, 2012, 05:10:43 pm

So first off, I would like to apologize to Strategia, it was really hard on me to attack him like that. 

Second I would like to say, that, while I really enjoy Mafia, it's very hard on me, like Chaos I find it hard to insult anybody, unless I'm angry at them, (which is ridiculously rare, but it does happen) or it's in a game setting, even then it's a bit on the hard side.  So I might be taking a break before I do any more, it wears me out a bit emotionally.

Third, I was wondering if the IC(s), mod and/or any of the experienced watchers could give an analyzation of my play.  I really want to know how well I did and any flaws I need to correct.

I have to agree on all three. I'm not that good too with intimidation, but that's what formatting is for.  :P

I knew my intuition was telling the truth on "Why Strategia?!". If only you posted.  :'(

Request Player Analysis

I'm ready to take harsh criticism on how I play.

. . .

I had a hidden card up my sleeve on you ZU if I survived in day 3. Now that you're all clear in the Scumchat, I knew I should've ratified my wording. I got suspicious when both Phantom and ZU were doing 'successful' scumhunting there, knowing I'm town, deciding to push on one.

Though, failed. T'was hard to restrain myself from bumping the thread for those busy in Day 3. Good work again scum!

zombie urist: What do you mean by "fun to play with" when you referred to me?  :P

Also, Toaster, how did I perform from the scum IC's eyes?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Game Over! Mafia Win!
Post by: Toaster on February 23, 2012, 10:22:03 pm

Err... I confess I wasn't analyzing the play of the town.  You'll have to ask Jim or Dariush. Given that you didn't get lynched, it couldn't have been too bad!

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Game Over! Mafia Win!
Post by: Tiruin on February 23, 2012, 10:25:21 pm

Nah, I had something telling me I did play bad, so waiting for full player analysis if possible from anyone.

Also, when Jim posted he wasn't dead on the start of Day 3 continued the WIFOM of "Why am I not dead." that was said by Andrew. Why didn't anyone take that down? Just curious here.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Game Over! Mafia Win!
Post by: IronyOwl on February 23, 2012, 10:29:28 pm

Quote from: Tiruin on February 23, 2012, 10:25:21 pm

Also, when Jim posted he wasn't dead on the start of Day 3 continued the WIFOM of "Why am I not dead." that was said by Andrew. Why didn't anyone take that down? Just curious here.

I wasn't paying strong attention, but most likely because it's a common newbie mistake and he wasn't pushing it too hard or in a scummy fashion. It was more that noobish "Wait a second, I've found something!" that someone then has to explain is worthless.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Game Over! Mafia Win!
Post by: Jim Groovester on February 23, 2012, 10:37:24 pm

Quote from: Phantom of The Library on February 23, 2012, 05:10:43 pm

Second I would like to say, that, while I really enjoy Mafia, it's very hard on me, like Chaos I find it hard to insult anybody, unless I'm angry at them, (which is ridiculously rare, but it does happen) or it's in a game setting, even then it's a bit on the hard side.  So I might be taking a break before I do any more, it wears me out a bit emotionally.

Mafia is a game of observation and intuition and analysis. It's not even about the insults, and the insults only come from hostile posturing to get what you want out of another player.

It's not about the goddamn insults.

Quote from: Phantom of The Library on February 23, 2012, 05:10:43 pm

Third, I was wondering if the IC(s), mod and/or any of the experienced watchers could give an analyzation of my play.  I really want to know how well I did and any flaws I need to correct.

You did well.

Just don't overdo the FoSes. It's a common mistake that new players make, because they know they have to look like they're scumhunting, but it's difficult for them to lie and accuse and vote somebody of being scum when they know they're not, so instead, they FoS them, because it's a weaker, less aggressive gesture. It's something that takes a few games as scum to get over. I mean, really, it's pretty much just a matter of experience.

Because if you hadn't done your FoS at lylo, then I would've been completely blind to even the idea of you being scum.

Quote from: Phantom of The Library on February 23, 2012, 05:10:43 pm

And finally, would you recommend that I do another BM, or do you think that I'm ready for a full game?

I'd say you're ready.

Going in to games with more experienced players, just keep in mind that since you're still inexperienced, you will make mistakes that you don't know you're making and get in hot water because of it. Don't worry about it too much. Just remember that you're learning.

Quote from: Tiruin on February 23, 2012, 10:20:17 pm

Request Player Analysis

You'll do good once you get some experience under your belt. You're active, you're obviously interested, you're aggressive. Now all you need to do is learn what makes a player scum. That comes with experience, so go out there and get it, tiger!

I think some of your attacks were off base, but I didn't give you too much crap about it because I don't like shutting new players down if they're busy being active and aggressive, despite being mistaken about the basis of their attacks. Usually it takes a game or two for a player's scum radar to get pointed in the same general direction as everybody else's, even if it's still not perfectly tuned yet.

I, uh, hope this satisfies you. I don't know if you wanted a more in depth analysis or not. I think you did well.

Losses =/= failure for Beginner's Mafias. The whole point is to learn and give you that critical mafia experience.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Game Over! Mafia Win!
Post by: Phantom of The Library on February 23, 2012, 11:02:58 pm

Quote from: Jim Groovester on February 23, 2012, 10:37:24 pm

Quote from: Phantom of The Library on February 23, 2012, 05:10:43 pm

Second I would like to say, that, while I really enjoy Mafia, it's very hard on me, like Chaos I find it hard to insult anybody, unless I'm angry at them, (which is ridiculously rare, but it does happen) or it's in a game setting, even then it's a bit on the hard side.  So I might be taking a break before I do any more, it wears me out a bit emotionally.

Mafia is a game of observation and intuition and analysis. It's not even about the insults, and the insults only come from hostile posturing to get what you want out of another player.

It's not about the goddamn insults.

I know that it's not, but the fact remains that I'm still insulting people sometimes, I'll probably get used to it after a few games, hopefully.


Thank you for your analysis, it was very much appreciated.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Game Over! Mafia Win!
Post by: Toaster on February 23, 2012, 11:04:34 pm

Agreed- as a whole, everyone seemed to play well.  I'd be happy to face any of you in a regular game. Also, getting thrown into the ring with some hardened veterans will give you a hell of an education in a hurry.

As far as insults go, most people here only apply them in the context of the game.  Outside, we're mostly friendly and cuddly.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Game Over! Mafia Win!
Post by: Tiruin on February 23, 2012, 11:07:28 pm

Quote from: Toaster on February 23, 2012, 11:04:34 pm

Agreed- as a whole, everyone seemed to play well.  I'd be happy to face any of you in a regular game. Also, getting thrown into the ring with some hardened veterans will give you a hell of an education in a hurry.

As far as insults go, most people here only apply them in the context of the game.  Outside, we're mostly friendly and cuddly.

I'm one to agree with this. Bring on your pokerface Phantom, you did it well here. But don't let this post influence that.

Oh, and new BM up for anyone else who hasn't noticed.

No deadchat btw.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Game Over! Mafia Win!
Post by: Phantom of The Library on February 23, 2012, 11:21:26 pm

Quote from: Tiruin on February 23, 2012, 11:07:28 pm

I'm one to agree with this. Bring on your pokerface Phantom, you did it well here. But don't let this post influence that.

It's been brought.  You see this quarter-mask? It covers up the quarter of my face that shows emotion. 

Bring it.

Also, couldn't you provide the link to the deadchat?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Game Over! Mafia Win!
Post by: Jim Groovester on February 23, 2012, 11:33:15 pm

I don't think webadict made a deadchat.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Game Over! Mafia Win!
Post by: Shakerag on February 24, 2012, 12:26:46 am

Quote from: Toaster on February 23, 2012, 11:04:34 pm

Agreed- as a whole, everyone seemed to play well.  I'd be happy to face any of you in a regular game. Also, getting thrown into the ring with some hardened veterans will give you a hell of an education in a hurry.

As far as insults go, most people here only apply them in the context of the game.  Outside, we're mostly friendly and cuddly.

Even Dariush?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Game Over! Mafia Win!
Post by: zombie urist on February 24, 2012, 01:03:22 am

Quote from: Tiruin on February 23, 2012, 10:09:45 pm

I'm practically the worst cop ever.

Nope you were the unluckiest cop ever.  :P

Quote from: Tiruin on February 23, 2012, 10:20:17 pm

I had a hidden card up my sleeve on you ZU if I survived in day 3. Now that you're all clear in the Scumchat, I knew I should've ratified my wording. I got suspicious when both Phantom and ZU were doing 'successful' scumhunting there, knowing I'm town, deciding to push on one.
Though, failed. T'was hard to restrain myself from bumping the thread for those busy in Day 3. Good work again scum!
zombie urist: What do you mean by "fun to play with" when you referred to me?  :P

Jim explains it well.

Quote from: Jim Groovester on February 23, 2012, 10:37:24 pm

You're active, you're obviously interested, you're aggressive. Now all you need to do is learn what makes a player scum. That comes with experience, so go out there and get it, tiger!

Also by then I was fairly confident you had a special role and I knew it would drive you KRAZY if you got roleblocked again.

GAH I knew day 3 lasted longer than it was supposed to!

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Game Over! Mafia Win!
Post by: Dariush on February 24, 2012, 04:50:56 am

Quote from: Shakerag on February 24, 2012, 12:26:46 am

Quote from: Toaster on February 23, 2012, 11:04:34 pm

Agreed- as a whole, everyone seemed to play well.  I'd be happy to face any of you in a regular game. Also, getting thrown into the ring with some hardened veterans will give you a hell of an education in a hurry.

As far as insults go, most people here only apply them in the context of the game.  Outside, we're mostly friendly and cuddly.

Even Dariush?

Obviously not. I'm friendly and cuddly even inside the game. ^_^

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Game Over! Mafia Win!
Post by: Tiruin on February 24, 2012, 05:52:48 am

One last question to the scummies. What made you both suspect me, and maybe guess I had a power role. Thanks Jim, by the way.

Webadict did not make a deadchat, so we were turning in our graves just to get answers.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Game Over! Mafia Win!
Post by: Phantom of The Library on February 24, 2012, 07:21:55 am

Quote from: Tiruin on February 24, 2012, 05:52:48 am

Webadict did not make a deadchat, so we were turning in our graves just to get answers.

Aaaah, derp, I thought you were asking for the link to.

As for what made me suspect you, there was nothing definite, but you seemed to be the strongest player in the game currently
(minus the ICs of course) and I just had this niggling feeling that you had something else about you, I can't remember what exactly it was but there was something about the way you played that said potential power-role.  Keep in mind I had absolutely no experience at this point and it was more lucky guess than anything.

Quote from: Dariush on February 24, 2012, 04:50:56 am

Quote from: Shakerag on February 24, 2012, 12:26:46 am

Quote from: Toaster on February 23, 2012, 11:04:34 pm

Agreed- as a whole, everyone seemed to play well.  I'd be happy to face any of you in a regular game. Also, getting thrown into the ring with some hardened veterans will give you a hell of an education in a hurry.

As far as insults go, most people here only apply them in the context of the game.  Outside, we're mostly friendly and cuddly.

Even Dariush?

Obviously not. I'm friendly and cuddly even inside the game. ^_^

Aaaaah, yes of course you are, extremely friendly and trustworthy, just like you were in C&D.  :P

As for that post that I never made:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Quote from: zombie urist on February 20, 2012, 09:51:41 pm

Quote from: Phantom of The Library on February 17, 2012, 07:38:01 pm

In some cases their attack on me confirmed my suspicions that they were scum, or added more evidence to my suspicions, which were confirmed by their actions afterwards. I could care less about my image, if I did then I would be less aggressive not more, all I care about right now is making sure that the scum, namely Andrew4scum5, is lynched so we don't lose.

It's funny how Strategia turned up town. I don't see how anyone's role can be confirmed in this game unless you are cop, which you aren't, or they die.
So far your entire game plan has been pressure votes, then accuse them of attacking you on false premises. And it hasn't worked so far.

Accusing them of attacking on false premises is not part of my game plan, it happens to be the thing that all the people I ended up attacking have done, usually it was the thing that made me suspicious of them. 
True, all the people I have gone after previously in this game have turned up town, but that does not necessarily imply incompetence on my part.  You do bring up a good point, though, I may want to rethink my pressure vote strategy in the mid-game in the future.

Quote from: zombie urist on February 20, 2012, 09:51:41 pm

Quote from: Phantom of The Library on February 20, 2012, 08:39:54 pm

This question is meant as an IC question: isn't that the entire point of mafia though?  Deliberate, calculated moves?  How am I  supposed to accuse anybody if I don't assume that their every move is carefully calculated?

This question doesn't make sense to me. If you assume everyone's moves are perfectly calculated (which is impossible) then there would be no scumtells, or any mistakes that could be used for accusation.

I'm was not saying that everyone's moves are perfectly calculated, I was saying that I thought that everyone put thought into and/or carefully calculated their moves.  Caution does not imply perfection.  But moot point, Jim already answered the question.

---

Quote from: Dariush on February 22, 2012, 11:07:47 am

Quote from: Jim Groovester on February 21, 2012, 02:10:47 am

There's also this point that Phantom of the Library brought up that I'm very interested to hear the answer to.

I think I missed Phantom's response when I made my previous post.

I don't know what question you're referring to, but you still haven't answered the question from my last post fully.
Here it is for ease of access:

Quote from: Phantom of The Library on February 20, 2012, 08:39:54 pm

Quote from: Dariush on February 20, 2012, 08:12:37 am

Quote from: Jim Groovester on February 20, 2012, 05:44:33 am

Why the change of mind? This is lylo. I want a more extensive breakdown of your reasons, because right now, you don't look like you really care so long as you get somebody.

Firstly, extend. Secondly, my Phantom vote was mostly pressure, since I wanted to know why he is using me for cover.

If the vote was pressure, then why did you leave it there where it would have killed me if there hadn't been an extension?  Moreover, why have you not redacted it if it was a pressure vote?

Still needed a bit of polishing but here it is.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXX - Game Over! Mafia Win!
Post by: Toaster on February 24, 2012, 09:11:33 am

Quote from: Shakerag on February 24, 2012, 12:26:46 am

Quote from: Toaster on February 23, 2012, 11:04:34 pm

Agreed- as a whole, everyone seemed to play well.  I'd be happy to face any of you in a regular game. Also, getting thrown into the ring with some hardened veterans will give you a hell of an education in a hurry.

As far as insults go, most people here only apply them in the context of the game.  Outside, we're mostly friendly and cuddly.

Even Dariush?

Absolutely!  He's the snuggliest of all!