inb4nkEveryone hates Wuba so much that he gets NK'd even in games he's not playing in.
Sometimes you think that to murder is fine and the win will be formed as they fall. Then you see that you have misjudged it. You most likely fudged it after all.Can I have a protect please? Why must these goddamn Jesters tease?
Looooong liiiiive Wuuuuubaaaaa, heeeeee loooooves youuuuuu... Siiiiiing thiiiiiiis sooooooong or you know what heeeeeee'll dooooo...Sometimes you think that to murder is fine and the win will be formed as they fall. Then you see that you have misjudged it. You most likely fudged it after all.Can I have a protect please? Why must these goddamn Jesters tease?
Iiiiisss iiit... something you can flip?Oh, definitely.
the game will start shortly thereafter.Zeroth rule of Mafia modding: REMEMBER THE TIMEZONES AND USE THE ACTUAL FUCKING TIME.
How about you learn some patience and remember that people aren't robots and are therefore subject to whatever schedule they want?the game will start shortly thereafter.Zeroth rule of Mafia modding: REMEMBER THE TIMEZONES AND USE THE ACTUAL FUCKING TIME.
I have nothing against 'in five hours'. I have something against 'in the morning/evening/tomorrow' and 'some time later'. This time I really was unnecessarily harsh and I apologize for it. I just can't wait for this game to start. :PHow about you learn some patience and remember that people aren't robots and are therefore subject to whatever schedule they want?the game will start shortly thereafter.Zeroth rule of Mafia modding: REMEMBER THE TIMEZONES AND USE THE ACTUAL FUCKING TIME.
Also, if someone says "In five hours", DO SOME MATH. Time doesn't mystically disappear between time zones, and since we're all likely moving at similar pace through time, I can safely assume that five hours for me is five hours for you. If it isn't, then it really isn't my fault for not being a time traveler.
I realize this is a stunning revelation, but nothing in Toaster's post revealed that he had a specific intention of starting the game at any particular time.
Also, that should've stated Think's post. Not Toaster. I seem to have forgotten whom is whom now.I have nothing against 'in five hours'. I have something against 'in the morning/evening/tomorrow' and 'some time later'. This time I really was unnecessarily harsh and I apologize for it. I just can't wait for this game to start. :PHow about you learn some patience and remember that people aren't robots and are therefore subject to whatever schedule they want?the game will start shortly thereafter.Zeroth rule of Mafia modding: REMEMBER THE TIMEZONES AND USE THE ACTUAL FUCKING TIME.
Also, if someone says "In five hours", DO SOME MATH. Time doesn't mystically disappear between time zones, and since we're all likely moving at similar pace through time, I can safely assume that five hours for me is five hours for you. If it isn't, then it really isn't my fault for not being a time traveler.
I realize this is a stunning revelation, but nothing in Toaster's post revealed that he had a specific intention of starting the game at any particular time.
I have to say, I love this game already.
Jack A T, which non Cult/SK third party are you most afraid of? Assume Lynchers and Assassins have you as targets.
You'll find that I use this question a lot, mainly because I like third parties.What do you like about them?
PPE: Goddamnit Orangebottle. You really are part ninja.Hehehe.
I have to say, I love this game already.I don't like dealing with Jesters, due to the sheer amount of WIFOM and confusion they produce. That, and the mere existence of a jester would put us the equivalent of one scum closer to LYLO, if one is in this game.
Jack A T, which non Cult/SK third party are you most afraid of? Assume Lynchers and Assassins have you as targets.
Darvi: Are you excited about this game?A bit. Mostly because out of curiosity about what the role I named got turned into, who got it, etc. Would probably be even more exited if I hadn't an exam in a couple hours.
Darvi: What's your theory on when a cop should claim?Is that a reference to RL mafia 1?
Shakerag/Orangebottle: I have no idea how I got those two mixed up. I blame derp.Sure it's not a Freudian slip?
Shakerag/Orangebottle: I have no idea how I got those two mixed up. I blame derp.Sure it's not a Freudian slip?
Darvi: What's your theory on when a cop should claim?Is that a reference to RL mafia 1?
Darvi: I see.Shakerag/Orangebottle: I have no idea how I got those two mixed up. I blame derp.Sure it's not a Freudian slip?
Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
Orangebottle: What is your least favourite role, other than vanilla townie, to play?Pretty much anything from Witches' Coven.
OB: Which player, who isn't wuba, worries you the most`Because wuba worries everybody the most, obviously.I think Dariush and Ottofar worry me the most. Ottofar for his incredibly lurky meta, and Dariush for his ETERNAL RAGE AND HATRED FOR ALL THINGS.
And sometimes a cigar is your scumbuddy!I was sorely tempted to do a "Your Mom" joke there.
...
Well, that certainly sounded cooler in my head.
I think Dariush and Ottofar worry me the most. Ottofar for his incredibly lurky meta, and Dariush for his ETERNAL RAGE AND HATRED FOR ALL THINGS.So you're more worried about terribad town than good scum?
Awful town can lose a game faster than good scum can win it.I think Dariush and Ottofar worry me the most. Ottofar for his incredibly lurky meta, and Dariush for his ETERNAL RAGE AND HATRED FOR ALL THINGS.So you're more worried about terribad town than good scum?
JAT: Would you rather be a doctor or a roleblocker?First, please call me Jack A T, or at least Jack. JAT doesn't really catch my attention as well when I'm searching for questions to answer.
First, please call me Jack A T, or at least Jack. JAT doesn't really catch my attention as well when I'm searching for questions to answer.But I was going for people with acronyms D:
Wuba, how long will you last ? Wich faction do you believe will try to remove you the soonest ?I'm assuming one Day, after which I will have been murdered by the mafia, all vigilantes, and all third parties. Luckily, I'll dodge every kill but one.
Unvote, vote Shakerag: I find it interesting that you're throwing so many jokes around all of a sudden. Are you still serious about the Toaster vote? If not, is there a reason it's still on?
webadict: This isn't a bastard game, so what's with the early massclaim?Because I said so.
No.webadict: This isn't a bastard game, so what's with the early massclaim?Because I said so.
I like how your "claim" is a mash-up of your role and Think's role from the last BYOP. I'm willing to bet that your last ability will tell us the number of remaining scum, like Powder Miner's last role.Yep. Don't worry. If you thought THOSE two were blatant rip-offs, then you're in for an awesome surprise. Though, to be fair, my new ability actually lets me dodge kills, too. I might live to see tomorrow.
How incrediblyfakeconvenient.
No, we're massclaiming. I'm proving that it beats RVS. In fact, not mass claiming makes it look like you can't come up with a good fakeclaim.No.webadict: This isn't a bastard game, so what's with the early massclaim?Because I said so.
Just...
No.
What exactly is your definition of "so many"? Looking at the posts of the other players so far, I'm hardly the first person to crack a joke. Also: vodka. Puts a smile on my face."So many": Yes, other people (including me) have made jokes so far. You had almost as much in the way of jokes as you did content, though.
Re: Toaster - I was contemplating keeping my vote there for one more post from Toaster just to see if being called on the whole you/Urist mixup was going to cause any significant reaction, but I think that's unlikely now. Unvote.
I find it interesting that you're so concerned about my vote being on Toaster. Any particular reason why?
Also, my abilities are fairly easy to prove.
No, we're massclaiming. I'm proving that it beats RVS. In fact, not mass claiming makes it look like you can't come up with a good fakeclaim.I spent a good twenty minutes laughing my ass off at this. I was the last remaining scum in the last game, because of my fakeclaiming.
When did NUKE hack Webadict's account?
Webadict, I don't even... Why?Because I said so, it's better than any question I've seen so far, and it stops fakeclaims later. Come up with a reason why not, and we'll talk.
When did NUKE hack Webadict's account?Well, if everyone wanted to use their actions on me, there'd be a significant amount of failure. It is still provable through failed attempts, though your abysmal tries to discredit me are noted.
Also, my abilities are fairly easy to prove.
Not really, no. That would require everybody not targeting you night one.No, we're massclaiming. I'm proving that it beats RVS. In fact, not mass claiming makes it look like you can't come up with a good fakeclaim.I spent a good twenty minutes laughing my ass off at this. I was the last remaining scum in the last game, because of my fakeclaiming.
My gut is telling me that you're a jester, which is the only thing keeping me from voting you right now.
"Because I said so" is a terrible reason. So is,"It's better than any question I've seen so far".Webadict, I don't even... Why?Because I said so, it's better than any question I've seen so far, and it stops fakeclaims later. Come up with a reason why not, and we'll talk.
However, Orangebottle, seeing as how you have just proven that fakeclaims are better to have earlier in the game, as then you cannot change your role to fit other people's actions, your twenty minutes go completely counter to your message. Explain how hiding your pathetic role makes sense. Is it because you're mafia, and incredibly unintelligent? I mean, I remember it taking you a good amount of time for you to fakeclaim in BYOP, so I can understand the need to buy time.Nice job, implying that scum are the only people who want to hide their roles on day one. I'm only buying time for everybody by opposing the massclaim. Cops, trackers, watchers, etc. need time to do their thing. If I wanted to fakeclaim, I would've done it already. I'd need even less time on day one, because I wouldn't need to claim actions and make sure everything fits.
This way, the most information is shared to the most number of players. And seeing as how I may or may not be dead tomorrow, I'm going to order a massclaim today, because I think RVS is one of the most useless pieces of garbage that has ever existed.I have never seen you say that before. Ever.
So, fell free to claim any time now, and I'll consider unvoting you. (I won't actually consider unvoting you because you're acting far too sly too allow to live. Especially with passive attacks.)Passive attacks? I don't see any.
Also, consider your own words: You think I'm a jester. Why? If I WERE a jester, explain how NOT lynching me would be more beneficial to anyone. If you lynch a jester, nothing happens except them winning. So, why are you purposefully avoiding being suspicious of me? It's really just a lazy attempt to ignore me. Not only that, but you're worried far too much about third party roles, rather than scum.As I said, it was mostly a gut feeling. One that's definitely changed over the course of this post. Not lynching a jester means you have a vote you can use to potentially lynch scum. And yes, I'm worried about third party roles, for very good reasons. DEFCON is not a fun way to end a game at all.
Dariush, if you were a jester, how and when would you try to get yourself lynched?On D1, subtly. Overreacting to RVQuestions, obviously tunneling, rolefishing, etc.
Dariush. Let's say you're a combined Doctor-roleblocker that can perform both actions at once. Where does your protect land tonight? Your block? Why?I'll protect someone I consider town and block someone I consider scum. Why the oddly specific question?
Toaster:How does Jack = Imiknorris? Your nervous is showing, scum.Also this. Obvious rolefishing is obvious, OB.
Who are you going to use the mafia kill on tonight?
Powder Miner: That's why you're so excited right now! You drew third party. So, tell us, which third party are you?
Dariush and Ottofar, who would be your N1 kill if you were a vig or an SK?Wuba because he's always scum. Also obvious rolefishing is obvious.
I thought I'd ask something a little more interesting this game, but in asking a specific question I wanted a specific answer. Care to provide one?Dariush. Let's say you're a combined Doctor-roleblocker that can perform both actions at once. Where does your protect land tonight? Your block? Why?I'll protect someone I consider town and block someone I consider scum. Why the oddly specific question?
Yes, because rolefishing is bad. Except, I'm rolefishing someone who I believe isn't town. Why wouldn't town be interested in the roles of other factions?Powder Miner: That's why you're so excited right now! You drew third party. So, tell us, which third party are you?Also this. Obvious rolefishing is obvious, OB.
Your response to Webadict reeks of OMGUS.And? When two people suspect eachother, OMGUS tends to happen. It's not even the worst type of OMGUS, which is reasonless.
Since Web's reasons for trying to "force through a massclaim" are "awful", what would be a good reason for a D1 massclaim?Maybe somebody getting daykilled, and definitely a lot of people getting daykilled all at once.
Yes, because rolefishing is bad. Except, I'm rolefishing someone who I believe isn't town. Why wouldn't town be interested in the roles of other factions?Ignoring the obvious hipocrisy up there, we don't know for sure you're town. Actually, who am I kidding, you're scum. [/sarcasm]
Dariush: Why are the person you would vig and the person you are voting not the same person? That is not a townie behavior.Because I would actually think at the end of day whom to kill instead of choosing someone randomly at the beginning and my previous reply was a sarcastic retort to ECF's rolefishing.
"Because I said so" is a terrible reason. So is,"It's better than any question I've seen so far".That's not true at all. Anyone that claims right away is obviously not lying, as they are claiming as soon as possible. It's the ones that fight and fight about it that are attempting to delay the inevitable, especially idiots like you that have no better reason to NOT claim than "I don't want to." I'd count your other reasons, except that they're blatantly false.
Finally, it doesn't prevent fakeclaims now. Fakeclaiming now actually makes it easier for one to continue fakeclaiming as the game progresses.
A massclaim at this point will cause one of three things to happen:A) That's incredibly stupid and false on premise. There are undoubtably doctors and watchers and other roles. Not only that, but you're assuming that some roles are BETTER than other roles, which just isn't true.
A)It will expose all of our roles, and we'll get to watch as the more powerful ones get picked off by scum.
B)It'll cause everybody to scramble for safe fakeclaims, causing a bunch of mislynches when these fakeclaims are found out.
C)There's a small chance of a scum slipping up on their fakeclaim and getting lynched.
The risks of an early massclaim far outweigh the benefits.
Nice job, implying that scum are the only people who want to hide their roles on day one. I'm only buying time for everybody by opposing the massclaim. Cops, trackers, watchers, etc. need time to do their thing. If I wanted to fakeclaim, I would've done it already. I'd need even less time on day one, because I wouldn't need to claim actions and make sure everything fits.New flash: you're not any more important just because you're a(n) [insert role], and wanting to hide your role is more scummy than not wanting to. Feel free to play the Night game, while I instead force the Day game to be more important. Your argument is faulty on so many levels, it's not even funny. Seeing as how EVERYBODY has a role, then all roles are important.
I have never seen you say that before. Ever.Which part? That RVS is utter garbage, or that MCing gives everyone information? Because I have said these before many times. Both.
Passive attacks? I don't see any.
How incrediblyLearn to read.fakeconvenient.
As I said, it was mostly a gut feeling. One that's definitely changed over the course of this post. Not lynching a jester means you have a vote you can use to potentially lynch scum. And yes, I'm worried about third party roles, for very good reasons. DEFCON is not a fun way to end a game at all.But, if you're afraid of third party roles, it STILL doesn't make sense. If I'm dead, then I'm CLEARLY going to doomspeaker you. Not only that, but you should be a little more worried about finding all scum, instead of asking every single player whether they're third party. Instead, you're looking for third parties; NOT mafia. So, I'm assuming that you have no intention of doing so.
Webadict. Trying to force through a massclaim for absolutely awful reasons is not a townie action. If you happen to actually be a jester, congratulations! You've earned my vote for the rest of your short life.It's not awful reasons. It's better than RVS. It forces fakeclaims out now to find. It focuses the game to a Day game.
Webadict: I can see what you're going after, but you'll pardon me if I'm a little skeptical. You didn't see it worth asking the opinions of others of a massclaim?Nope. I didn't. Why would I? I'm proving that D1 Massclaims are superior to RVS, especially after looking at every question that had been posted. Every single one was pointless, so I figured I'd try out MCing. It'll force fakeclaims out right now, give all others as much information before they die, and it'll promote discussion.
To suspect someone, it implies that one person actually finds another person suspicious. You don't actually suspect me because you're scum, especially given your reasons which are "I don't want to claim." However, I'm glad you believe I'm town.Your response to Webadict reeks of OMGUS.And? When two people suspect eachother, OMGUS tends to happen. It's not even the worst type of OMGUS, which is reasonless.QuoteSince Web's reasons for trying to "force through a massclaim" are "awful", what would be a good reason for a D1 massclaim?Maybe somebody getting daykilled, and definitely a lot of people getting daykilled all at once.
Everyone knows that only the mafia are worried specifically about third parties this early on. Isn't that right, Powder Miner?Well, mafia and other third party scum. But yes, pretty much.
Leafsnail: Isn't that right?
Everyone's here... except for Leafsnail, Dariush, and Ottofar. So Leafsnail, what are your preferred teams to play on?Bastard serial killer then town. Being a normal serial killer is no fun, but making devil deals and reviving everyone is awesome. Although if I can't have access to crazy abilities that noone else could possibly predict then I actually prefer to be town, since that takes the pressure of and just allows me to play.
I spent a good twenty minutes laughing my ass off at this. I was the last remaining scum in the last game, because of my fakeclaiming.Webadict has expressed his enthusiasm for early massclaims in the Game Theory Discussion (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=98055.msg2856556#msg2856556) thread (well, he suggested it for Paranormal but that should equally apply to a role heavy game like this one). Are you suggesting he somehow predicted he'd be a jester in the next game and therefore decided to set himself up as doing this in advance?
My gut is telling me that you're a jester, which is the only thing keeping me from voting you right now.
Those claiming the earliest are in most danger of being caught out in a lie as mafia. Especially since everyone has a night action and we'll be able to observe those whose actions are comfirmable, as well as using our inspections to eradicate liars. So I'll claim now and vote anyone who remains reluctant to claim. What do you think of that, Dariush? Fakeclaims are easiest when you're the last one to claim (see: Bellsounder, where I managed to dodge a massclaim by being dead at the time). Right? I think lynching the most reluctant person to claim could provide a good incentive to claim early rather than tailor your fakeclaim to those who have already gone.Welp, there's scum #2. I'm guessing their strategy this game is,"Be first people to claim so we can't possibly look like scum, then force everybody else to claim by pressuring them." #3 is probably Jack.
Webadict has expressed his enthusiasm for early massclaims in the Game Theory Discussion (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=98055.msg2856556#msg2856556) thread (well, he suggested it for Paranormal but that should equally apply to a role heavy game like this one). Are you suggesting he somehow predicted he'd be a jester in the next game and therefore decided to set himself up as doing this in advance?No. I'm suggesting nothing beyond the text of that quote.
Either a redirect* or a vote steal.JackUrist Imiknorris: What reasonably balanced power, other than an extra kill, would you consider scariest in the hands of the Mafia?
Welp, there's scum #2. I'm guessing their strategy this game is,"Be first people to claim so we can't possibly look like scum, then force everybody else to claim by pressuring them." #3 is probably Jack.No. You're transcending the simple OMGUS and are now attacking everyone who agrees with webadict because they must obviously be scum. It's all a damn conspiracy to force a massclaim, you tell us.
I'm inclined to agree with webadict this time, actually. Those claiming the earliest are in most danger of being caught out in a lie as mafia. Especially since everyone has a night action and we'll be able to observe those whose actions are comfirmable, as well as using our inspections to eradicate liars. So I'll claim now and vote anyone who remains reluctant to claim. What do you think of that, Dariush? Fakeclaims are easiest when you're the last one to claim (see: Bellsounder, where I managed to dodge a massclaim by being dead at the time). Right? I think lynching the most reluctant person to claim could provide a good incentive to claim early rather than tailor your fakeclaim to those who have already gone.There are three things wrong with this argument - first, I may simply be not around to claim before everyone else does, living on the other side of the world and everything. Second, by your logic you claimed early on specifically to paint yourself in townie light. Third, there's absolutely no difference for the fakeclaimer when to do so - it's not like the roles can be checked during the first day.
Orangebottle:You're right. Just webadict and leafsnail are scum.Welp, there's scum #2. I'm guessing their strategy this game is,"Be first people to claim so we can't possibly look like scum, then force everybody else to claim by pressuring them." #3 is probably Jack.No. You're transcending the simple OMGUS and are now attacking everyone who agrees with webadict because they must obviously be scum. It's all a damn conspiracy to force a massclaim, you tell us.
Firstly, you're not on the other side of the world. You are posting.Everyone except me and two other people posted between game start and the time I got to my computer. Go figure.
Secondly, I claimed early to help pressure the scum into claiming.And how exactly would your claim pressure (other) scum into claiming?
Third, you're stupid. There's a large difference for a fakeclaimer. If you know the town roles before you claim, you can try and slip in a role that they can't detect.They can't detect how? By there being cops/trackers/whatever?
Everyone except me and two other people posted between game start and the time I got to my computer. Go figure....So? It's a massclaim. You're online now. You can claim, but you are resisting. You are trying to delay your claim so your falseclaim will be stronger.
And how exactly would your claim pressure (other) scum into claiming?Because I can demonstrate the massclaim is happening and tell others to claim or get lynched. Kindof like I'm doing to you.
They can't detect how? By there being cops/trackers/whatever?I'm not gonna tell you how to falseclaim better, scum. I can talk to you about Mafia Falseclaiming For Idiots Who Cannot Use Basic Logic after you claim or after you get lynched. Whichever comes first.
It's nice how your logic goes 'claim because if you don't I won't tell you why I want you to claim', Leafsnail. Exactly like scum's logic would go.Huh? You were asking me how to falseclaim better. I'm not gonna give that information to someone who could be desparately trying to think of a falseclaim.
I'm Coach from L4D2. I'm a Tough Guy To Put Down (the last person to lynch or action me will die), I can Assist someone (target can't be blocked or redirected) and I can send a Signal Flare (the target receives a PM telling him that I'm town). I won't tell the role I sent in yet to catch potential fakeclaims. Not likely, but better to be on the safe side.So, unlike every other role in the game you have no one-shot and instead two night actions? Also noone will fakeclaim the rolename, ever. Unless one mafia member happened to send in another mafia member's role, and even then it'd be completely pointless. I guess you've at least claimed though. Unvote.
Orange: At what point does a massclaim rally stop being rolefishing and start being... a massclaim? How many people have to claim first (for you to get a good fakeclaim going)?Incredibly passive attack aside, this is more than enough for me to claim. One was more than enough for me to claim. I just don't agree with a day one massclaim because of the huge risks involved.
Leafsnail: Why OB?He didn't claim, and was aggressively resisting claiming. And was randomly calling anyone who disagreed with him scum. A few votes thrown his way made perfect sense and seems to have made him see some sense.
"Someone Else's Role."
With that in mind: unvote. Darvi.Any specific reasons?
Darvi : Depending on how goes the game. If we have multiple killer (mafia and a few third parties) and town is getting decimed early i'd use early (think day 2-3) on my biggest suspicion, else id keep it in case of a lylo.And what if somebody claims vig, explaining those extra kills? Does that change anything? Unvote, though.
Yes, because rolefishing is bad. Except, I'm rolefishing someone who I believe isn't town. Why wouldn't town be interested in the roles of other factions?Rolefishing is rolefishing. If you're certain somebody is anti-town, you should try to press on their scumminess, not on their roles.
You're right. Just webadict and leafsnail are scum.Indeed OB, disagreeing with you makes one automatically scum.
I've analysed my anti-massclaim thinking and found a huge fucking error.So what is the conclusion you came to and why did it make you change your mind?
I've been acting like this is a normal game, where we don't know the names of eachothers roles.
I am a huge derp.
Any specific reasons?You hadn't claimed yet. Unvote. Shakerag.
Leafsnail, why didn't you claim your sent role? Or if you did please link the post where you did and I'll hit my head against a wall :I claimed to have sent in webadict's role ("The 14th Player") and insinuated that I know a possibility for his one-shot.
Orange: At what point does a massclaim rally stop being rolefishing and start being... a massclaim? How many people have to claim first (for you to get a good fakeclaim going)?Incredibly passive attack aside, this is more than enough for me to claim. One was more than enough for me to claim. I just don't agree with a day one massclaim because of the huge risks involved.
I've analysed my anti-massclaim thinking and found a huge fucking error.
I've been acting like this is a normal game, where we don't know the names of eachothers roles.
I am a huge derp.
This is one of the worst logical leaps I've seen in a while. Do you really think the rolenames will make such a big difference as to being able to catch fakeclaims? It's not like one role name is inherently more scummy- it's not like there's a giant DEFCON warning going on.Yes.
Nope.You're right. Just webadict and leafsnail are scum.Indeed OB, disagreeing with you makes one automatically scum.
Bolded it for you, as it appears I wasn't clear enough the first time.I've analysed my anti-massclaim thinking and found a huge fucking error.So what is the conclusion you came to and why did it make you change your mind?
I've been acting like this is a normal game, where we don't know the names of eachothers roles.
I am a huge derp.
Nope.Snarkasm man, do you speak it?
We just disagreed. I don't think you're any scummier for it.
If you put sarcasm/a joke/funny stuff onto a vote I take it seriously.Nope.Snarkasm man, do you speak it?
We just disagreed. I don't think you're any scummier for it.
Welp, there's scum #2. I'm guessing their strategy this game is,"Be first people to claim so we can't possibly look like scum, then force everybody else to claim by pressuring them." #3 is probably Jack.Someone does not agree with you implies they are scum? That's the spirit!
I've analysed my anti-massclaim thinking and found a huge fucking error.How does knowing the name of a role help or change things at all? I can't figure out how you came to that conclusion.
I've been acting like this is a normal game, where we don't know the names of eachothers roles.
I am a huge derp.
I claim Z, Darvi claims Y, Toaster claims X, and you claim W.Logic fail. Either I or toaster had to lie.
I claim to have sent in Y, Darvi claims to have sent in Z, Toaster claims to have sent in W, and you claim to have sent in Q. Either you or Toaster must be lying.
Shakerag: Why'd you wait until you got pressure on your vote to remove it?
Awww, i wished for a Chocolate Helicopter. Oh well.
I'm not claiming my role-name until the sick bastard that sent it in claims.
That post was directed towards webadict, you goof.I claim Z, Darvi claims Y, Toaster claims X, and you claim W.Logic fail. Either I or toaster had to lie.
I claim to have sent in Y, Darvi claims to have sent in Z, Toaster claims to have sent in W, and you claim to have sent in Q. Either you or Toaster must be lying.
Yes, you sick bastard.I'm not claiming my role-name until the sick bastard that sent it in claims.
I have a funny feeling that may be me. Is it ... "Dariush/NUKE slashfic"?
Jack, is it a coincidence that your claim happens to be about vodka?Yes.
Jack, why were you so eager to go with the massclaim?RVS is tiresome, I'm interested in trying something new, this at least has the potential to be good, and the mafia theory thread showed that this isn't some sudden new evil Webadict plan.
Welp, there's scum #2. I'm guessing their strategy this game is,"Be first people to claim so we can't possibly look like scum, then force everybody else to claim by pressuring them." #3 is probably Jack.Orangebottle: ...huh?
You're right. Just webadict and leafsnail are scum....So, um, about how sure were you that I was scum?
I've analysed my anti-massclaim thinking and found a huge fucking error.And this is enough to make up for the rest of your massive number of arguments against massclaiming?
I've been acting like this is a normal game, where we don't know the names of eachothers roles.
I am a huge derp.
*Shakerag: Adolph <insert long name here> (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=98843.msg2903197#msg2903197), sent in Dariush/NUKE slashficSorted.
*ECrownofFire: Dariush/NUKE Slashfic (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=98843.msg2902595#msg2902595), sent in French Taunters
*Powder Miner: French Taunters (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=98843.msg2902536#msg2902536), sent in Annelida
*Orangebottle: Annelida (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=98843.msg2902540#msg2902540), sent in the Terraria Voodoo Doll
*Darvi: Terraria Voodoo Doll (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=98843.msg2902808#msg2902808), sent in Someone Else's Role
*Leafsnail: Someone Else's Role (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=98843.msg2901765#msg2901765), sent in 14th Player
*Webadict: 14th Player (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=98843.msg2900827#msg2900827), sent in tcidabeW.
*Dariush: Coach (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=98843.msg2902131#msg2902131), no submission given
*MysteriousBluePuppet, no claim, presumably submitted Huge-ass Name
*Ottofar: the Man Who Arranges the Blocks (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=98843.msg2902096#msg2902096), sent in Egregious
*Jack A T: Egregious (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=98843.msg2900986#msg2900986), sent in Western Block Party
*Toaster: Western Block Party (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=98843.msg2902360#msg2902360), sent in El Camino
*Imiknorris: El Camino (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=98843.msg2901826#msg2901826), sent in Man Who Arranges the Blocks
No I wasn't.It's nice how your logic goes 'claim because if you don't I won't tell you why I want you to claim', Leafsnail. Exactly like scum's logic would go.Huh? You were asking me how to falseclaim better.
Anyway, it's pretty damn simple. Let's say you wait until the end of the claim and see there are no rolecops. Great, you can falseclaim your abilities as something else and use your real abilities behind everyone's backs without their suspicion. Or if you find there are an abundance of cops you'll know it might be a good idea to claim miller. And you can also avoid making your role sound too similar to anyone else's (since that would be weird and could lead to suspicion on you).That makes sense. Was that so hard to tell before covering everyone in shit for not claiming in time? Unvote.
Er, the Signal Flare is one-shot.I'm Coach from L4D2. I'm a Tough Guy To Put Down (the last person to lynch or action me will die), I can Assist someone (target can't be blocked or redirected) and I can send a Signal Flare (the target receives a PM telling him that I'm town). I won't tell the role I sent in yet to catch potential fakeclaims. Not likely, but better to be on the safe side.So, unlike every other role in the game you have no one-shot and instead two night actions?
Also noone will fakeclaim the rolename, ever. Unless one mafia member happened to send in another mafia member's role, and even then it'd be completely pointless.Actually I've thought about sending in 'Guaranteed Scum' role (though I didn't in the end). That's what pushed me onto this thought track.
Dariush: So you're saying that you gave no real thought to his question? Why not answer it hypothetically, then? (As in "I'd kill off someone for doing X or Y")Because I haven't thought of answering this way. What's the difference, anyway?
Also, I'm not known for my incredibly intelligent town play. Quite the opposite, actually.Did you... did you just cite your stupidness meta?...
Anyway, I get lynched as town day one for retarded/scummy shit pretty often. Fighting it usually only makes it worse, anyway.WHAT THE FUCK OB. Do you mean we shouldn't lynch you because you pretty often get lynched as town?...
Well, I suppose that Dariush is the creator of that huge name then.Yep.
Got webadict sggestion, and proposed Coach. WIll post role tommorow, too late for that here.Explain how it is too late? I saw someone post their role in a one sentence description. It takes me about 30 seconds to write my role, and that's with a bunch of fancy language. It should only take you about 15 if you're just writing quickly.
But no sane person would ever claim something they DIDN'T have, because someone out there KNOWS you're lying.That post was directed towards webadict, you goof.I claim Z, Darvi claims Y, Toaster claims X, and you claim W.Logic fail. Either I or toaster had to lie.
I claim to have sent in Y, Darvi claims to have sent in Z, Toaster claims to have sent in W, and you claim to have sent in Q. Either you or Toaster must be lying.
Guess my oneshot will go unused. Shame, cause it's a pretty good oneshot. Since I'm probably going to be the day one mislynch of the game, I'll just go ahead and claim it.What makes you say that it will go unused?
Seriously, EVERYWHERE tells me which actions happened during the night, along with who their targets were.
webadict, does your auto-ability affect kills?I think he said that somewhere. Forgot what exactly he said, though, and cannot find the post on short notice.
As far as I can tell, yes. It says all actions, so I assume that includes kills, as well. I suppose I could inquire, just to be sure, but if it doesn't, then the ability was poorly written.Guess my oneshot will go unused. Shame, cause it's a pretty good oneshot. Since I'm probably going to be the day one mislynch of the game, I'll just go ahead and claim it.webadict, does your auto-ability affect kills?
Seriously, EVERYWHERE tells me which actions happened during the night, along with who their targets were.
...So, um, about how sure were you that I was scum?Exactly 0%. My brain likes to shit all over the place sometimes. It usually happens somewhere around midnight.
My points against it were:I've analysed my anti-massclaim thinking and found a huge fucking error.And this is enough to make up for the rest of your massive number of arguments against massclaiming?
I've been acting like this is a normal game, where we don't know the names of eachothers roles.
I am a huge derp.
Unvote, vote Orangebottle. What are the real reasons why you finally claimed? I somehow doubt that making it hard to fakeclaim names is enough to make up for all of the points you tried to make against massclaiming.
WHAT THE FUCK OB. Do you mean we shouldn't lynch you because you pretty often get lynched as town?...No. I'm saying that the only time I do incredibly scummy/stupid shit, I'm town. There are plenty of examples I could cite to support this.
But no sane person would ever claim something they DIDN'T have, because someone out there KNOWS you're lying.That's a good point. Didn't even consider that.
I was assuming that your change of mind would come from something I purposefully didn't mention earlier: Flavor. Particular roles are going to kill in particular ways. Someone with a flamethrower is going to burn someone to death. A car? Run someone over.
But, to catch potential fakeclaimers? No. No one can fakeclaim a name on Day 1. NO ONE. You can fakeclaim a name on Day 2 or later, but Day 1? There is literally no chance to succeed, unless you're a Jester, in which case, that's a hilarious strategy.
What makes you say that it will go unused?Cause I'm about to get lynched.
Also, I'm about 95% certain that either Ottofar, ECoF or Shakerag is scum.Why?
Wouldn't Leafsnail then get to use it?What makes you say that it will go unused?Cause I'm about to get lynched.
Because I find it difficult to believe that all three roleblockers would be town.QuoteAlso, I'm about 95% certain that either Ottofar, ECoF or Shakerag is scum.Why?
A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. Being familiar with your own meta (as you demonstrated in the post Dariush voted you for) allows you to intentionally drop your town tells as scum. As such, your acting like a moron is a null tell once you've acknowledged it. Now would you like to explain why your FoS of Dariush isn't an OMGUS?WHAT THE FUCK OB. Do you mean we shouldn't lynch you because you pretty often get lynched as town?...No. I'm saying that the only time I do incredibly scummy/stupid shit, I'm town. There are plenty of examples I could cite to support this.
Nice bandwagon, though. Scumone has found an easy lynch to hop onto. Dariush.
Wouldn't Leafsnail then get to use it?Assuming Leafsnail isn't lying scum, yes.
Now would you like to explain why your FoS of Dariush isn't an OMGUS?Oh, it totally is. A very valid OMGUS. In one post he went from not voting me to,"FUCK YOU GO DIE!" because he has no actual suspicions, yet he needs to look town to avoid being suspected.
Also, he never answered my question (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=98843.msg2901476#msg2901476).So it didn't occur to you to just ask him to answer your question instead of FoSing him?
That's not OMGUS, that's voting (or FoSing) because you think he's scummy.QuoteNow would you like to explain why your FoS of Dariush isn't an OMGUS?Oh, it totally is. A very valid OMGUS. In one post he went from not voting me to,"FUCK YOU GO DIE!" because he has no actual suspicions, yet he needs to look town to avoid being suspected.
Not if he responded to the post, but not the question (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=98843.msg2901505#msg2901505). The post itself being very sparse as far as textual content goes.Also, he never answered my question (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=98843.msg2901476#msg2901476).So it didn't occur to you to just ask him to answer your question instead of FoSing him?
Because there's a realistic chance of him having missed it.
Okay. I was under the impression that voting anybody who's voting you is an OMGUS, mostly because of Webadict accusing me of it when I have legitimate reasons to think he's scum.That's not OMGUS, that's voting (or FoSing) because you think he's scummy.QuoteNow would you like to explain why your FoS of Dariush isn't an OMGUS?Oh, it totally is. A very valid OMGUS. In one post he went from not voting me to,"FUCK YOU GO DIE!" because he has no actual suspicions, yet he needs to look town to avoid being suspected.
So... we have 3 one-shot killers claimed (Shakerag, ECrownofFire, Urist Imiknorris), and me, who can reuse a one-shot kill. I'm thinking we should fire off these kills tonight, and I'll use my one-shot for a kill as soon as possible too. That should give us a headstart over the mafia in terms of kills (ie we can slaughter scummy/ useless people) and prevent lylo breaking. I feel like we might be able to pretty much lock down the mafia from killing too.What.
Orangebottle: Your one-shot is ridiculous (tells you who the mafia is) and clearly can't belong to a townie. What is your alignment?I'm town. My oneshot tells me which actions affected which targets. It says nothing about who performed them, so I'll send Think a PM for verification. Only scum would be worried about the ability you thought I had, Leafsnail.
For one thing, we don't know who is scum and who isn't. We're far more likely to hit town than scum with these oneshot kills. Useless people still have a function: they prevent scum from winning. Townies aren't machines; we're human. We make mistakes and can also drop scumtells, and be seen as scummy. So you want all of our oneshot kills to be used on targets that could also be town. This would be a waste of three oneshots....What? Under this logic, we shouldn't lynch either. We should lynch the person we think is scummiest, then shoot the 3 people we think are next scummiest. Otherwise we're just throwing the decision over to the mafia, who will kill someone who is 100% town and the person they want eliminated most. Summary: Kill on a person who most of the town thinks is scum vs kill on the person the mafia wants dead most.
Furthermore, that doesn't keep scum from killing at all. It just makes it so they don't need to kill as much.That particular plan doesn't. The fact that we have a tonne of roleblockers, redirecters and other disrupters does.
I'm town. My oneshot tells me which actions affected which targets. It says nothing about who performed them, so I'll send Think a PM for verification. Only scum would be worried about the ability you thought I had, Leafsnail.I'm not "worried" about your role, and I never said anything remotely to that effect. I can just see that it's far too good for a townie to have. It's like how the Exterminator Alien can have access to Intel in Paranormal, but that information would clearly be broken in the hands of a town player. I guess I don't know much about Think's modding, but this ability just seems like a very cheap way to net scum (since you don't even have to aim it). So in other words, I felt like your role was one that a survivor/ serial killer might have, or else a mafia role.
Guess my oneshot will go unused. Shame, cause it's a pretty good oneshot. Since I'm probably going to be the day one mislynch of the game, I'll just go ahead and claim it.
Seriously, EVERYWHERE tells me which actions happened during the night, along with who their targets were.
Assuming Leafsnail isn't lying scum, yes.
Also assuming that Leafsnail wants to use his oneshot to use my oneshot.
Also assuming that Leafsnail doesn't get killed in the middle of the night.
Also assuming Leafsnail's oneshot isn't blockable.
Gee, that's a lot of assumptions.
Also, I'm about 95% certain that either Ottofar, ECoF or Shakerag is scum.
...Fire off three one-shot kills tonight? Before any inspects? ... ... ...
Dariush: So you're saying that you gave no real thought to his question? Why not answer it hypothetically, then? (As in "I'd kill off someone for doing X or Y")Because I haven't thought of answering this way. What's the difference, anyway?
Darvi: So... out of everyone else who has an auto, a night action, and a one-shot, you have nothing? Nothing at all? No hints as to possible changes?I did say that I something might happen if I died. But I'd rather not want to find out. I like being alive.
This doesn't strike you as odd?
Leaf: Do you think those kills targets should be predetermined so there's no wasted actioning?Yeah. Like a quadruple lynch. Obviously it'll be complicated by whoever has some kind of kill resistance.
So... we have 3 one-shot killers claimed (Shakerag, ECrownofFire, Urist Imiknorris), and me, who can reuse a one-shot kill. I'm thinking we should fire off these kills tonight, and I'll use my one-shot for a kill as soon as possible too. That should give us a headstart over the mafia in terms of kills (ie we can slaughter scummy/ useless people) and prevent lylo breaking. I feel like we might be able to pretty much lock down the mafia from killing too.
You're forgetting the long-term consequences of killing three easy (mis)lynches - they don't have a chance to clear themselves and scum don't have a chance to slip up when trying to mislynch/bus them. Also it brings us a day and a half closer to LyLo if we all hit town (which is far too likely for my tastes).For one thing, we don't know who is scum and who isn't. We're far more likely to hit town than scum with these oneshot kills. Useless people still have a function: they prevent scum from winning. Townies aren't machines; we're human. We make mistakes and can also drop scumtells, and be seen as scummy. So you want all of our oneshot kills to be used on targets that could also be town. This would be a waste of three oneshots....What? Under this logic, we shouldn't lynch either. We should lynch the person we think is scummiest, then shoot the 3 people we think are next scummiest. Otherwise we're just throwing the decision over to the mafia, who will kill someone who is 100% town and the person they want eliminated most. Summary: Kill on a person who most of the town thinks is scum vs kill on the person the mafia wants dead most.
There's no reason to hold onto these kills - they could be lost when the person dies or used to break lylo if the person is a mafia member.Yes there is - we've only got one shot each, and I refuse to waste it on someone I'm not sure of.
Orangebottle: Your one-shot is ridiculous (tells you who the mafia is) and clearly can't belong to a townie. What is your alignment?I see you're going after people whose roles would benefit scum. Could it possibly be because you want to use their abilities, Leafsnail?
Ottofar - Boy, that's a nice scum role. Very disruptive and rolefishy. I wonder if you're gonna actually do anything today other than be passive and bandwagon?
Summary: mislynch a townie, then kill five more and win for the scum. I say five because the scum are almost guaranteed to be using their kills. We have one person who is definitely scum(You), and one who everybody else thinks is scum(me). If any kills are used, they should be on you for making this stupid plan.For one thing, we don't know who is scum and who isn't. We're far more likely to hit town than scum with these oneshot kills. Useless people still have a function: they prevent scum from winning. Townies aren't machines; we're human. We make mistakes and can also drop scumtells, and be seen as scummy. So you want all of our oneshot kills to be used on targets that could also be town. This would be a waste of three oneshots....What? Under this logic, we shouldn't lynch either. We should lynch the person we think is scummiest, then shoot the 3 people we think are next scummiest. Otherwise we're just throwing the decision over to the mafia, who will kill someone who is 100% town and the person they want eliminated most. Summary: Kill on a person who most of the town thinks is scum vs kill on the person the mafia wants dead most.
There's no reason to hold onto these kills - they could be lost when the person dies or used to break lylo if the person is a mafia member.If the user of the oneshot doesn't have anyone who is obvscum in their mind, they're probably going to hit town. If any of them are scum, they're going to use it on the town anyway.
Your plan included none of these, and it was a horrible plan. Feel free to come up with a better one while you get lynched.Furthermore, that doesn't keep scum from killing at all. It just makes it so they don't need to kill as much.That particular plan doesn't. The fact that we have a tonne of roleblockers, redirecters and other disrupters does.
I don't know how to respond to this. BSER - Paranormal is not an easy comparison to make; there are far too many differences between the two. To name a couple:I'm town. My oneshot tells me which actions affected which targets. It says nothing about who performed them, so I'll send Think a PM for verification. Only scum would be worried about the ability you thought I had, Leafsnail.I'm not "worried" about your role, and I never said anything remotely to that effect. I can just see that it's far too good for a townie to have. It's like how the Exterminator Alien can have access to Intel in Paranormal, but that information would clearly be broken in the hands of a town player. I guess I don't know much about Think's modding, but this ability just seems like a very cheap way to net scum (since you don't even have to aim it). So in other words, I felt like your role was one that a survivor/ serial killer might have, or else a mafia role.
I guess you clearing up the misinterpretation of it makes it a lot weaker and maybe plausible for a townie to have, but it still means that the mafia definitely cannot kill in the night you use it (because we'd just have to see whoever's action is missing and bam, that person killed (and it'd be worse if someone falseclaimed at some point). You wouldn't be able to lie about using it either if some players had semi-randomized targets under the plan). And if you went through with your initial decision not to claim this, that would've made it even more broken.There was no room for misinterpretation at all. I specifically claimed that I'd see the action and the target. You're also stating a blatant falsehood. Scum can kill in the night I use it.
But in any case there's no point in lynching you today because, whatever your alignment, you claiming this has completely locked the mafia down for tonight. Heck, if you die sometime I could even use your ability again to leave the mafia completely helpless for another night.Hey there buddy. Did you really think that'd get me off your back, scum? See, I know that you already knew that I was town. You stated it right here. From your point of view, how is it impossible that I'm fakeclaiming scum? You've been avoiding my bandwagon ever since I claimed, probably to distance yourself from my mislynch.
This is known as blackmailing the town. It's scummy as hell.I said some other reasons, but I can't be arsed to find them through all these walls. I believe it was in response to Webadict or Darvi.
In any case, your rolename business for flipping your opinion of claiming is crap. Anyone not braindead could come up with a passable fakeclaim using the exact same name.
The argument was that my oneshot would never be used. If Leafsnail's fakeclaiming scum(which he most definitely is), he can't/wont use my oneshot on someone. If I'm fakeclaiming scum(which I'm not), then it would never have been used anyway. I didn't start that conversation, Imiknorris did. You should probably be asking him this question.Assuming Leafsnail isn't lying scum, yes.
Also assuming that Leafsnail wants to use his oneshot to use my oneshot.
Also assuming that Leafsnail doesn't get killed in the middle of the night.
Also assuming Leafsnail's oneshot isn't blockable.
Gee, that's a lot of assumptions.
Every one of those assumptions minus the second applies just as much to you. What difference does that make?
Leaf: Do you think those kills targets should be predetermined so there's no wasted actioning?What.
This doesn't strike you as odd?
So... we have 3 one-shot killers claimed (Shakerag, ECrownofFire, Urist Imiknorris), and me, who can reuse a one-shot kill. I'm thinking we should fire off these kills tonight, and I'll use my one-shot for a kill as soon as possible too. That should give us a headstart over the mafia in terms of kills (ie we can slaughter scummy/ useless people) and prevent lylo breaking. I feel like we might be able to pretty much lock down the mafia from killing too.
...No, fuck you. Mass murder is not the answer, and I won't be wasting my kill unless I'm damn certain the target's scum.
-SNIP-
I see you're going after people whose roles would benefit scum. Could it possibly be because you want to use their abilities, Leafsnail?
Darvi: You're untrackable scum, aren't you?
This is known as blackmailing the town. It's scummy as hell.I said some other reasons, but I can't be arsed to find them through all these walls. I believe it was in response to Webadict or Darvi.
In any case, your rolename business for flipping your opinion of claiming is crap. Anyone not braindead could come up with a passable fakeclaim using the exact same name.
I claim Z, Darvi claims Y, Toaster claims X, and you claim W.
I claim to have sent in Y, Darvi claims to have sent in Z, Toaster claims to have sent in W, and you claim to have sent in Q. Either you or Toaster must be lying.
It makes it a hell of a lot easier to find fakeclaims.
Or my mind could just be fucking me over again and I wouldn't know otherwise.
QuoteThe argument was that my oneshot would never be used. If Leafsnail's fakeclaiming scum(which he most definitely is), he can't/wont use my oneshot on someone. If I'm fakeclaiming scum(which I'm not), then it would never have been used anyway. I didn't start that conversation, Imiknorris did. You should probably be asking him this question.Assuming Leafsnail isn't lying scum, yes.
Also assuming that Leafsnail wants to use his oneshot to use my oneshot.
Also assuming that Leafsnail doesn't get killed in the middle of the night.
Also assuming Leafsnail's oneshot isn't blockable.
Gee, that's a lot of assumptions.
Every one of those assumptions minus the second applies just as much to you. What difference does that make?
QuoteLeaf: Do you think those kills targets should be predetermined so there's no wasted actioning?What.
This guy is guaranteed to be scum.
And you're agreeing with his incredibly shitty plan.QuoteThis doesn't strike you as odd?
No, I think it was something else.This is known as blackmailing the town. It's scummy as hell.I said some other reasons, but I can't be arsed to find them through all these walls. I believe it was in response to Webadict or Darvi.
In any case, your rolename business for flipping your opinion of claiming is crap. Anyone not braindead could come up with a passable fakeclaim using the exact same name.
You mean this?
snip
It's pretty much the same thing and it's equally unhelpful.
I'm interested in your opinion, since you said it.Okay. It changes nothing.
I'm questioning him over it. If I was agreeing, I'd be either asking him what I should do or proposing a course of action.What do you think about his plan, then?
Do you think there should be a preplanned sequence of actions?No.
First of all, nobody thinks that LS is scum but you. For flimsy reasons, too. So he's hardly obvscum, and even less likely to be lynched.Hmm...
LeafsnailHMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM.......
Next, scum can use their kill, and then they'll have a hard time explaining why they targeted somebody who got murdered that night.Okay, genius. Think for a second. Who can scum kill that makes it so they wouldn't have to explain why they targeted that person that night?
Next, if you're fakeclaiming scum, then that can be easily determined by having a few guys target somebody without you knowing who. If your claim doesn't account for their actions, you're scum.That wasn't part of Leafsnail's plan. He hadn't considered that, and thus that is invalid.
If, on the other hand, you're town and don't want to use the skill anyway, then we don't have any reason to let you live anyway.I'm an unredirectable, unblockable watcher with a oneshot that essentially watches everyone.
Hmm...I doubt that Urist thinks that LS is obscum unless I'm colourblind.
Hmmmmmmm........LeafsnailHMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM.......
And no, my reasons are fine. I don't remember:Wait, who said again that they were being a derp when saying that?
-Making plans that largely benefit scum.
-Buddying.Pic or it didn't happen.
-Knowing I'm not scum without being a daycop, and when I've been acting scummy.What?
being town things.
Okay, genius. Think for a second. Who can scum kill that makes it so they wouldn't have to explain why they targeted that person that night?Nobody, because we have a doc.
That wasn't part of Leafsnail's plan. He hadn't considered that, and thus that is invalid.Fine then. It is my plan, however, rendering your argument doubly so invalid.
I'm an unredirectable, unblockable watcher with a oneshot that essentially watches everyone.The part where you conveniently ignore the part where I said "if you don't want to use your ability anyway"
And you don't want to keep my alive.
What's wrong with this picture?
I doubt that Urist thinks that LS is obscum unless I'm colourblind.
First of all, nobody thinks that LS is scum but you.
What?
But in any case there's no point in lynching you today because, whatever your alignment, you claiming this has completely locked the mafia down for tonight.
Right. I'm running under the assumption that scum has roles that are stronger than town roles.QuoteOkay, genius. Think for a second. Who can scum kill that makes it so they wouldn't have to explain why they targeted that person that night?Nobody, because we have a doc.
That would work. But it doesn't explain why Leafsnail thought I wasn't. You mentioning it first would just make him saying that parroting.QuoteThat wasn't part of Leafsnail's plan. He hadn't considered that, and thus that is invalid.Fine then. It is my plan, however, rendering your argument doubly so invalid.
And why wouldn't I want to use my abilities?QuoteI'm an unredirectable, unblockable watcher with a oneshot that essentially watches everyone.The part where you conveniently ignore the part where I said "if you don't want to use your ability anyway"
And you don't want to keep my alive.
What's wrong with this picture?
Meh. I meant to say obvscum. But eh.I doubt that Urist thinks that LS is obscum unless I'm colourblind.First of all, nobody thinks that LS is scum but you.
"Wjatever your alignmet" != "You are town"But in any case there's no point in lynching you today because, whatever your alignment, you claiming this has completely locked the mafia down for tonight.
Right. I'm running under the assumption that scum has roles that are stronger than town roles.Sure. I think Think knows better than making a heroic guard even more useless.
That would work. But it doesn't explain why Leafsnail thought I wasn't. You mentioning it first would just make him saying that parroting.So you are saying, were he to agree with me, he would only be parotting me?
QuoteI'm an unredirectable, unblockable watcher with a oneshot that essentially watches everyone.
And you don't want to keep my alive.
What's wrong with this picture?QuoteAnd why wouldn't I want to use my abilities?I think I read you saying so. Can't find the relevant post, though.
Hence why I underlined "There's no point in lynching you today.""Wjatever your alignmet" != "You are town"But in any case there's no point in lynching you today because, whatever your alignment, you claiming this has completely locked the mafia down for tonight.
So you are saying, were he to agree with me, he would only be parotting me?I want to hear him say his reason for it, not yours. It'd be a hell of a lot less believable if he said yours, because I'd think he was parroting.
I said I wouldn't be able to, because I'm about to be lynched.QuoteQuoteI'm an unredirectable, unblockable watcher with a oneshot that essentially watches everyone.
And you don't want to keep my alive.
What's wrong with this picture?QuoteAnd why wouldn't I want to use my abilities?I think I read you saying so. Can't find the relevant post, though.
Oh wow, you sure know how to lie properly, you scumfuckingbag. Except not really. First of all, I stopped being satisfied with your answers due to rolefishing since my first post in the game (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=98843.msg2901235#msg2901235) and then you pulled up some hipocrisy to cover yourself and THEN you went all preemptive defence on our heads while citing your town meta, and THEN you OMGUS'd me. And then you lied. My hands itch to pothole one of those 'then's to the Running Gag page on TvTropes.QuoteNow would you like to explain why your FoS of Dariush isn't an OMGUS?Oh, it totally is. A very valid OMGUS. In one post he went from not voting me to,"FUCK YOU GO DIE!" because he has no actual suspicions, yet he needs to look town to avoid being suspected.
Also, he never answered my question (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=98843.msg2901476#msg2901476).The answer is the same as to ECF's - I don't know what I'm going to do in the night at the beginning of the day, and go fuck yourself anyway, I won't tell you whom not to kill tonight, scum.
However, if you guys "predetermine" the shots nicely into town, and we lynch a town, that puts us down to 8/13. Assuming there are 3 scum, that's MyLo right there.The town can choose the targets of the kills. Again, it's just like lynching, except we can do it 4 times in a row without the mafia being able to kill between them.
Lolno. I'm running under the assumption that the scum is just as powerful, if not moreso, than the town.Summary: mislynch a townie, then kill five more and win for the scum. I say five because the scum are almost guaranteed to be using their kills."Kills"? Mafia tend to get one group kill. I think this is what you call a scumslip, Mr Serial Killer.
In any case, if you use your ability, no, neither the mafia nor any serial killers will be able to kill, because you'll just need to look at whose action is missing, then lynch them (example: let's say that webadict decided to go against the plan and kill. You'd just look at the list and see that his "Make targets immune to blocks, redirects and randomizations" is missing from the list. Then we lynch him).I get that.
The town.Let's see here.
Will decide.
Who gets killed.
In advance.
Yes? Understood? Read what I just said again in case it didn't sink in. They are as likely to hit town as the lynch is. What we have been given is effectively 4 day one lynches before the mafia has a chance to off the good players. Even if we miss, at least we got those mislynches out of the way without the mafia getting a chance to snipe the towniest person in the night.
The mafia one-shoots would shoot town... UNLESS we tell them who they have to shoot in advance. In that case if we choose scum they can either kill their partner or get lynched for not killing their partner.There was no room for misinterpretation at all. I specifically claimed that I'd see the action and the target. You're also stating a blatant falsehood. Scum can kill in the night I use it.Scum can kill, but you would immediately know who it was (since everyone has a night action and you have a list of all the night actions performed, just see whose night action isn't on the list and they were the one killing).
I have a question.QuoteHey there buddy. Did you really think that'd get me off your back, scum? See, I know that you already knew that I was town. You stated it right here. From your point of view, how is it impossible that I'm fakeclaiming scum? You've been avoiding my bandwagon ever since I claimed, probably to distance yourself from my mislynch.I didn't say you were town in that quote. In fact, I think you're probably scum. But your claim means that scum can't kill, regardless of your alignment (since you'll have to use your ability tonight, and you won't be able to lie about the result of your ability without clashing with someone), so there's no point in lynching you today.
I'm saying that there's no point in lynching you today. Because if you're scum you'll have to honestly use your ability if we make a plan (I have a feeling this is why you're against making a plan) and thus lockdown the scumteam.That's not why I'm against making a plan at all. Perhaps you should read more. I've already said something about that.
Lolno. I'm running under the assumption that the scum is just as powerful, if not moreso, than the town.There is no reason to believe that scum is more powerful than town. Their main advantage is knowing who's on their team and who's not.
Besides, that scumslip doesn't point to me being a serial killer. Even I know that, and you're much better at this game than I. Why are you so reluctant to call me scum?Technically, SK's are scum too.
So y u no want to cooperate?QuoteIn any case, if you use your ability, no, neither the mafia nor any serial killers will be able to kill, because you'll just need to look at whose action is missing, then lynch them (example: let's say that webadict decided to go against the plan and kill. You'd just look at the list and see that his "Make targets immune to blocks, redirects and randomizations" is missing from the list. Then we lynch him).I get that.
Let's see here.As I stated previously, if we assign the abilities correctly, you have a very good chance of surviving. And even if you don't, chances are that any mafia 1-shot kills would be gone by then and then LS can pick up where you started. At which point we can attempt to confirm or deny his roleclaim.
-We have a doctor and a bodyguard.
-We have multiple roleblockers/delayers, at least one is scum.
-You can't use my oneshot until after I'm dead.
-Scum blocks/delays the doctor and bodyguard, then kills me.
-Scum doesn't have to worry about the claim in the morning.
There's also the same situation if I get lynched, except with you as the target.
I have a question.It's called blackmail. "Hey guys, don't lynch me because I have this awesome one-shot that you wouldn't want to lose."
If I'm scum, what would I gain from claiming this oneshot?
What do I lose?
That's not why I'm against making a plan at all. Perhaps you should read more. I've already said something about that.If you really do agree to use your oneshot then I agree with letting you live. Then we can lynch you next day.
Also, nobody seems to agree with you as far as not lynching me. Good luck with that.
One or more of those roleblockers/redirectors are scum. Imiknorris's logic regarding that is safe enough.Lolno. I'm running under the assumption that the scum is just as powerful, if not moreso, than the town.There is no reason to believe that scum is more powerful than town. Their main advantage is knowing who's on their team and who's not.
Besides, with all the roleblockers and redirectors around, chances that the scum will even get near you are slim.
So y u no want to cooperate?Because I think KILL EVERYONE LOLOLOL is a terrible idea.
True.QuoteLet's see here.As I stated previously, if we assign the abilities correctly, you have a very good chance of surviving. And even if you don't, chances are that any mafia 1-shot kills would be gone by then and then LS can pick up where you started. At which point we can attempt to confirm or deny his roleclaim.
-We have a doctor and a bodyguard.
-We have multiple roleblockers/delayers, at least one is scum.
-You can't use my oneshot until after I'm dead.
-Scum blocks/delays the doctor and bodyguard, then kills me.
-Scum doesn't have to worry about the claim in the morning.
There's also the same situation if I get lynched, except with you as the target.
Okay. How about that second question, then? What would I lose?QuoteI have a question.It's called blackmail. "Hey guys, don't lynch me because I have this awesome one-shot that you wouldn't want to lose."
If I'm scum, what would I gain from claiming this oneshot?
What do I lose?
Because you still didn't tell me why you revealed it in the first placeWhat, confusion regarding my reasons for objecting to the massclaim, and "I'm about to be lynched" aren't reasons enough for you?
This actually makes for a good part of a plan. I just don't like the shit about using up a bunch of our oneshots on day one to kill people who aren't guaranteed to be scum.QuoteThat's not why I'm against making a plan at all. Perhaps you should read more. I've already said something about that.If you really do agree to use your oneshot then I agree with letting you live. Then we can lynch you next day.
Also, nobody seems to agree with you as far as not lynching me. Good luck with that.
One or more of those roleblockers/redirectors are scum. Imiknorris's logic regarding that is safe enough.Which is why we're gonna keep them busy. If we tell a roleblocker to block player X, and player X doesn't blocked, then we know the blocker's scum. If player X does get blocked, then the doc's got nothing to keep them from protecting. Same goes for redirectors.
Also, that assumption comes from the last BYO. While it's not an accurate comparison, the scum had a multikill(Killed the target, the target's target, and everyone targeting their target), a limited multikill(Killed the target and any doctors targeting their target), and a combined untrackable godfather/friendly neighbor.Yeah. I remember how much that helped you guys. We found all of them except for you and you wouldn't be lynched because all that was left were useless wastes of space and SK-Jim.
Okay. How about that second question, then? What would I lose?Exactly nothing. You'd be lynched for failing to deliver.
What, confusion regarding my reasons for objecting to the massclaim, and "I'm about to be lynched" aren't reasons enough for you?Just checkin'. Because that second reason is hella scummy.
This actually makes for a good part of a plan. I just don't like the shit about using up a bunch of our oneshots on day one to kill people who aren't guaranteed to be scum.I personally am fine with killing people who are prone to lurking or otherwise triggering false positives straight away. Because what if you don't use them that way? You keep on to them and then either die use them on those people who would be lynched anyway.
I'll still be using it tonight, regardless of what goes through(Well, I can't use it if I'm dead).
Also, don't tell everyone what to do with their roles. Rigid plans are easily broken and very easily exploitable if t he planner is scum.The whole point of massclaiming is to make a plan, and if the whole town plans it then THE PLANNER CAN'T BE ENTIRELY SCUM. Dear god how can you be so stupid about this. Mafia can use their abilities for their own purposes if left to their own devices.
I will point out that you found Andrew out when he tripped up with a mispelling of a fake ability during the massclaim. During the day. I think we found the other one we killed as well via day, not night. Rushing in and killing everyone we can is stupid.You might notice that BYOP has no relevance to my idea at all.
Also, don't tell everyone what to do with their roles. Rigid plans are easily broken and very easily exploitable if t he planner is scum.I think I already mentioned somwhere that not everybody will be told their target beforehand. Instead, a few people who can block or redirect or whatever will have a couple of potential targets (non-overlapping, of course, because that way we can cover the most people), and they will decide their targets themselves. That way not only will we keep the scum guessing.
The whole point of massclaiming is to make a plan, and if the whole town plans it then THE PLANNER CAN'T BE ENTIRELY SCUM. Dear god how can you be so stupid about this. Mafia can use their abilities for their own purposes if left to their own devices.This. Giving people some autonomy in who they target is one step in that direction, imo.
I will point out that you found Andrew out when he tripped up with a mispelling of a fake ability during the massclaim. During the day. I think we found the other one we killed as well via day, not night. Rushing in and killing everyone we can is stupid.Yeah. One of our guys was obvscum, the other simply couldn't spell. The third was Webadict.
Also, don't tell everyone what to do with their roles. Rigid plans are easily broken and very easily exploitable if the planner is scum.
Orangebottle because I don't think anyone else should have to suffer Orangebottle's postYeah, I'm not going to justify that spoiler with a response after seeing it's name. It makes me wish I was a serial killer, so I could kill you at night instead of helping the town.
However, Dariush is almost guaranteed to not agree with it. There's no reversing his decision that I'm scum at this point, because I've pissed him off so much(which is why I didn't respond to his last post).I think even he would be okay with delaying your lynch.
So, you want the kills to target Powder Miner, Ottofar, MBP, and Imiknorris? Because you just called them useless.Throw in ECF and maybe Dariush and you pretty much nailed it. You'll notice that two of them have been vehemently opposed to using the one-shot nightkills even though there's pretty good reasons to. I can't tell if they're scum or panicky newblets, though, but the latter are a kind of collateral damage that's acceptable, even meant to happen in fact.
Getting lynched as scum isn't only a personal loss, it's a loss for the scum as a whole. They lose my vote, my abilities, my posts, and any opinions I could give on plans they might make. Also, your answer to the second question invalidates your answer to the first; I gain blackmail that serves no purpose, because I'd be found out by the second day.Uh, no? You being lynched is something that was going to happen anyway, so blackmailing town was pretty much the last saving throw you had. Except maybe proper scumhunting, but you wouldn't want that do you.
Fully claiming before being lynched is scummy? I could've sworn that's why ECrownofFire was lynched a second time in the last BYO. Now I'm confused, thanks.No, he got lynched because he was doing absolutely nothing on D1 but defending himself. His hiding of a resurrect changed nothing, except for NUKE going "told ya it would be useless".
At any rate, I don't like being lynched, no matter what my alignment. It keeps me from playing the game.Well maybe you should l2p first then.
I'm not okay with this plan. The scum are definitely going to try and steer the kills into townies. It's too good of a chance not to.Like, how? "Hey guys, we should totally kill webadict(or any townie who is known for their good play and wouldn't be targeted anyway)!"
that spoiler with a response after seeing it's name. It makes me wish I was a serial killer, so I could kill you at night instead of helping the town.Oh look you're doing it again.
Oh, also my name is Powder Miner.Whatever you say.
Powder Miner.
I'm not okay with this plan. The scum are definitely going to try and steer the kills into townies. It's too good of a chance not to.
-Scum blocks/delays the doctor and bodyguard, then kills me.OB: And then I announce the name of the person who blocked me. Yay!
An extra idea: if we do use all the one-shot kills today, how about we set up two night plans? One for our lynch target being scum, and one for him not being scum?Thought about this more. This isn't a great idea. Too easy for our lynchee to mess around with if scum, and somewhat chainlynchey. Also, I can't see resulting discussions/arguments working well at all.
Orangebottle: But lynching is okay, right? I'm sure scum doesn't try to steer lynches into townies, ever. (Yes, I'm being very sarcastic. Answer the question anyway.)Yes, but lynches don't occur four at a time.
OB: And then I announce the name of the person who blocked me. Yay!Didn't even notice that. Goddamnit brain.
Powder Miner: There is no plan that involves killing three random people. There is a plan that involves killing three people that we, as a group, decide on during the day based on scumminess during the day, but that's not killing random people.You're the only one who's saying that it's solely based on scumminess. Darvi and Leafsnail want it to be based on uselessness as well.
Also, intentionally not replying to posts is two things beginning with S.[ abbr=It's stupid and scummy]Can you guess which?[/abbr]Hmmm...
Uh, no? You being lynched is something that was going to happen anyway, so blackmailing town was pretty much the last saving throw you had. Except maybe proper scumhunting, but you wouldn't want that do you.I've been trying. My attempts have been nothing short of abysmal.
No, he got lynched because he was doing absolutely nothing on D1 but defending himself. His hiding of a resurrect changed nothing, except for NUKE going "told ya it would be useless".I always fullclaim before being lynched, regardless of how scummy it is.
Well maybe you should l2p first then.And how do you suggest I do that? I won't be accepted in a beginner's game.
Like, how? "Hey guys, we should totally kill webadict(or any townie who is known for their good play and wouldn't be targeted anyway)!"Exactly how they do with lynches?
Oh look you're doing it again.I love how you say that I'm scummier for it, but don't say that Leafsnail is, considering he just said he wouldn't acknowledge neither mine nor Powder Miner's posts.
I don't like this plan. It's far too risky that we hit all scum. Reminds me of a chain-lynch too much.Interesting.
How about we just split the kills over tonight and N2? Much less of a chance for fucking everything up that way and going directly into MYLO.
And Jack A T, what the fuck are you saying? We shouldn't lynch OB even though he's probably scum? A useful ability is not useful if scum has it.
And Jack A T, what the fuck are you saying? We shouldn't lynch OB even though he's probably scum? A useful ability is not useful if scum has it.Way to not pay attention fucknuts.
Powder Miner: There is no plan that involves killing three random people. There is a plan that involves killing three people that we, as a group, decide on during the day based on scumminess during the day, but that's not killing random people.With our current information it might as well be random. And it looks like Leafsnail's definition of scummy/useless appears to be everyone who disagrees with him.
With our current information it might as well be random.Okay guys, pack in, you heard the man then there's nothing we can do about it then.
And it looks like Leafsnail's definition of scummy/useless appears to be everyone who disagrees with him.Quote or it didn't happen.
This is one I really, really want answered.QuoteWell maybe you should l2p first then.And how do you suggest I do that? I won't be accepted in a beginner's game.
Either that, or I'll become the Beginner's Webadict, to teach scum who their first NK target should be.
Yes, calls everyone who disagrees with him stupid, and from what I've experienced, the people here think being stupid is being useless right?While useless is not equals scummy, it does distract from finding actual scum. While similar, there's a not-so-subtle difference.
This is one I really, really want answered.For one, stop flailing around at the slightest provocation. Going around voting people for the slightest reasons may be how the game works, but instead of claiming them and anybody supporting them to be scum you should reconsider if they do, in fact, have a point.
Darvi, are you absolutely sure you claimed your role correctly?Technically. I have an auto ability, but that only amounts to "You cannot action. Sucks to be you." Because I'm an inanimate object and all that.
ATM I think Powder for misunderstandings verging on intentional, MBP for not participating, and ECrown for his inability to pay attention (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=98843.msg2907969#msg2907969) and that he hasn't done anything today besides that.Problem: PM cannot be killed. If anything, we'd have to lynch him and kill ECF, in which case he can use his RB twice if he is indeed town.
I think you're lying.Darvi, are you absolutely sure you claimed your role correctly?Technically. I have an auto ability, but that only amounts to "You cannot action. Sucks to be you." Because I'm an inanimate object and all that.
What?And Jack A T, what the fuck are you saying? We shouldn't lynch OB even though he's probably scum? A useful ability is not useful if scum has it.Way to not pay attention fucknuts.
Unfortunately it's true.Why would your Auto ability be that you couldn't do anything? Not only is that unnecessary, seeing as how you could simply have no abilities, but everyone else has 3 abilities. So, why are you unique?
Maybe because I'm different? I think I have dropped a few hints about that already.Unfortunately it's true.Why would your Auto ability be that you couldn't do anything? Not only is that unnecessary, seeing as how you could simply have no abilities, but everyone else has 3 abilities. So, why are you unique?
Your claim is far too different from everyone else's, meaning that you're lying.That's discrimination! D:<
Darvi and Leafsnail have said the same thing Jack did. My ability ensures that the scum can't kill tonight, and if they do then they'll get caught. Were I fakeclaiming scum, I would easily be caught and lynched the next day anyway.What?And Jack A T, what the fuck are you saying? We shouldn't lynch OB even though he's probably scum? A useful ability is not useful if scum has it.Way to not pay attention fucknuts.
I'm somewhat okay with this. This has been a very productive day and the use of one-shot kills right now prevents scum from using them as LYLO breakers. And, of course, this plan effectively gives us more lynches before LYLO. However, I don't really like the rush to kill people with only D1 information.So yeah, it make make sense to kill day 2 if we run out of time today. Although I should add two caveats.
With our current information it might as well be random. And it looks like Leafsnail's definition of scummy/useless appears to be everyone who disagrees with him.My definition of useless is people who don't know basic ideas in mafia that I learnt in pretty much my first set of games on #mafia (more town kills = good, more mafia kills = bad). Or alternatively, you're scum and know this.
Darvi, people don't have to say directly incriminating things. If you went "Quoe or didn't happen" with every inferred thing there would be no scumhunting.Very clever. Completely and utterly refuse to provide any support for your baseless assertion.
Yes, calls everyone who disagrees with him stupid, and from what I've experienced, the people here think being stupid is being useless right?I've called you and Orangebottle stupid for disagreeing with an extremely basic plan without any opposing reason. I want the town to have more say in who gets killed, you repeat that "You won't use your NK unless you're sure the person is scum". Asserting that again and again without explaining why it's different to the lynches we perform every day in every game.
...Eh. I just added that on at a moment's notice and I'm not too confident in it myself. I'm just pissed at Leafsnail for insulting me just because I disagree with him.
Oh, go ahead. As long as it means that there's less of a massacre.Unsupported assertions coupled with emotive words. You're doing it again.
And there may be an advantage to town-directed kills, but not sudden N1 massacres.
People who are on board the "kill three people" plan should come up with targets. ATM I think Powder for misunderstandings verging on intentional, MBP for not participating, and ECrown for his inability to pay attention (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=98843.msg2907969#msg2907969) and that he hasn't done anything today besides that.I'd want to hit Ottofar too (in fact I think he'd be a great lynch which is why I'm voting him) since he hasn't been participating either and what little he has done is very active lurky.
Unless one of our oneshotters is masquerading their mafiakill as a oneshot kill. In which case, they probably can't kill their partner, meaning we find two scum instead of just one.I'm somewhat okay with this. This has been a very productive day and the use of one-shot kills right now prevents scum from using them as LYLO breakers. And, of course, this plan effectively gives us more lynches before LYLO. However, I don't really like the rush to kill people with only D1 information.So yeah, it make make sense to kill day 2 if we run out of time today. Although I should add two caveats.
1. If any killer fires without town permission and kills a townie we lynch them. No idiot defences. No "I was just mistaken" defences. We lynch them (I'm saying this now because I feel like Powder Miner is probably gonna kill me tonight and claim he thought I was scum beyond reasonable doubt). We're not gonna let scum have extra kills due to their delaying the kills.
2. If any killer refuses to fire when the town agrees on their target we lynch them. Because otherwise scum could refuse to kill their partner.
I'd want to hit Ottofar too (in fact I think he'd be a great lynch which is why I'm voting him) since he hasn't been participating either and what little he has done is very active lurky.Ottofar is always like that. He'd be a good NK. If we're going after these four, we must lynch one of PM or ECrown. Cause PM is kill immune and ECrown would just delay it to night 2. Then we need to find another target.
Because Jack explicitly stated it right there. And I didn't exactly look at his claim.Darvi and Leafsnail have said the same thing Jack did. My ability ensures that the scum can't kill tonight, and if they do then they'll get caught. Were I fakeclaiming scum, I would easily be caught and lynched the next day anyway.What?And Jack A T, what the fuck are you saying? We shouldn't lynch OB even though he's probably scum? A useful ability is not useful if scum has it.Way to not pay attention fucknuts.
Out of the three people who were saying this, you chose one and completely disregarded the other two. The one you chose was the claimed doctor.
So, why did you choose jack over Leafsnail or Darvi? And why weren't you paying attention?
I don't have a kill.I'm somewhat okay with this. This has been a very productive day and the use of one-shot kills right now prevents scum from using them as LYLO breakers. And, of course, this plan effectively gives us more lynches before LYLO. However, I don't really like the rush to kill people with only D1 information.So yeah, it make make sense to kill day 2 if we run out of time today. Although I should add two caveats.
1. If any killer fires without town permission and kills a townie we lynch them. No idiot defences. No "I was just mistaken" defences. We lynch them (I'm saying this now because I feel like Powder Miner is probably gonna kill me tonight and claim he thought I was scum beyond reasonable doubt). We're not gonna let scum have extra kills due to their delaying the kills.
2. If any killer refuses to fire when the town agrees on their target we lynch them. Because otherwise scum could refuse to kill their partner.In other words you're slaving the killers to your massacre plan?
Alternatively, another oh-so-basic mafia idea- less needless town deaths = good, more needless town deaths = bad. Or another one. More information = good, less = bad.With our current information it might as well be random. And it looks like Leafsnail's definition of scummy/useless appears to be everyone who disagrees with him.My definition of useless is people who don't know basic ideas in mafia that I learnt in pretty much my first set of games on #mafia (more town kills = good, more mafia kills = bad). Or alternatively, you're scum and know this.
So... I suppose that you disagreeing with me on such a simple point is a result of you being useless or scum, so you've merely got the causality backwards.Or it's because that "basic idea" is being used in a very flawed way.
It's not quite baseless anymore since you just directly confirmed it, but yes I was being stupid.Darvi, people don't have to say directly incriminating things. If you went "Quoe or didn't happen" with every inferred thing there would be no scumhunting.Very clever. Completely and utterly refuse to provide any support for your baseless assertion.
I have had much reason. How about you start reading my posts instead of saying "Oh hurr durr he's saying he won't use his kill" when not only do I not have a kill, I never said I had one. And I have explained it. Read my posts. Do it.Yes, calls everyone who disagrees with him stupid, and from what I've experienced, the people here think being stupid is being useless right?I've called you and Orangebottle stupid for disagreeing with an extremely basic plan without any opposing reason. I want the town to have more say in who gets killed, you repeat that "You won't use your NK unless you're sure the person is scum". Asserting that again and again without explaining why it's different to the lynches we perform every day in every game.
...Eh. I just added that on at a moment's notice and I'm not too confident in it myself. I'm just pissed at Leafsnail for insulting me just because I disagree with him.
Ottofar is still probably scum and he's never disagreed with me, though.Whatever.
What assertion? You mean my basic thesis which I have put out reasons to support but you (as evidenced by the fact you still think I have a kill) blatantly refuse to read?Oh, go ahead. As long as it means that there's less of a massacre.Unsupported assertions coupled with emotive words. You're doing it again.
And there may be an advantage to town-directed kills, but not sudden N1 massacres.
Seriously, what you have just written is not an argument. It's just "You say this and back it up with an argument. But I say this and I am right because MASSACRES".More like "You say this and back it up with ignoring me and using that to try and make arguments. But I say this and I am right because of arguments which you refuse to read."
Alternatively, another oh-so-basic mafia idea- less needless town deaths = good, more needless town deaths = bad. Or another one. More information = good, less = bad.You're talking like you know that all the people LS suggests to kill are town.
Or it's because that "basic idea" is being used in a very flawed way.Okay then mister wiseguy. You come up with a plan that keep scum from using their one-shot kills in a definitively anti-town manner.
It's not quite baseless anymore since you just directly confirmed it, but yes I was being stupid.Confirms what, exactly?
More like "You say this and back it up with ignoring me and using that to try and make arguments. But I say this and I am right because of arguments which you refuse to read."Hello pot. You're black.
I don't believe you. There would either be a reason you're different, you know you're different and refuse to explain how, or you're simply lying and are just like everybody else.Maybe because I'm different? I think I have dropped a few hints about that already.Unfortunately it's true.Why would your Auto ability be that you couldn't do anything? Not only is that unnecessary, seeing as how you could simply have no abilities, but everyone else has 3 abilities. So, why are you unique?QuoteYour claim is far too different from everyone else's, meaning that you're lying.That's discrimination! D:<
Like I said before, we shouldn't be lynching/killing Darvi.Hahaha.
His role was tailored from the Guide Voodoo Doll of Terraria.
In the game, when thrown into magma in hell, it summons a boss monster called the Wall of Flesh.
So, no, we aren't killing/lynching Darvi.
LS said that some of the killers are probably scum. Rolling with that assertion, they'll be able to use their kills to kill town, by getting the town to kill three other town with only D1 information. It's extremely unlikely that we'd hit all three scum with D1 daygaming and info even without scum messing-around-in-things.Alternatively, another oh-so-basic mafia idea- less needless town deaths = good, more needless town deaths = bad. Or another one. More information = good, less = bad.You're talking like you know that all the people LS suggests to kill are town.
Also, less potential mislynches = good and also = more information because then we wouldn't be so busy with following red herrings. In case you really are town, then you'll notice that this is exactly what's happening now.Why would I not notice if I weren't town? Anyway, it's not more information. Being a interrogator and shooting a guy in the head before he answers any questions is not more information. Neither is shooting three people N1.
You haven't done it yourself, nor has Leafsnail, mister wise guy.QuoteOr it's because that "basic idea" is being used in a very flawed way.Okay then mister wiseguy. You come up with a plan that keep scum from using their one-shot kills in a definitively anti-town manner.
That he thinks people are scummy/useless if they disagree with him. He pretty much just outright said it.QuoteIt's not quite baseless anymore since you just directly confirmed it, but yes I was being stupid.Confirms what, exactly?
Go ahead and show me a single example of something I didn't read. I'll then counter your accusation with how I had answered it and how I then used it later on, as well as how many other times I answered the exact same question with answers not read.QuoteMore like "You say this and back it up with ignoring me and using that to try and make arguments. But I say this and I am right because of arguments which you refuse to read."Hello pot. You're black.
I don't believe you. There would either be a reason you're different, you know you're different and refuse to explain how, or you're simply lying and are just like everybody else.I never lied. Trufax. I cannot tell you why I'm different. I have a hunch, but no more.
Anyhow, I'm not really a fan of lies.
Darvi.So. You're voting me.
Challenge accepted.
LS said that some of the killers are probably scum. Rolling with that assertion, they'll be able to use their kills to kill town, by getting the town to kill three other town with only D1 information. It's extremely unlikely that we'd hit all three scum with D1 daygaming and info even without scum messing-around-in-things.Just listen at yourself. The goal is not to instantly kill all scum on N1. The goal was to kill whoever everybody considers to be the most scummy. Exactly like regular dayplay.
Why would I not notice if I weren't town? Anyway, it's not more information. Being a interrogator and shooting a guy in the head before he answers any questions is not more information. Neither is shooting three people N1.What if the interrogee never answers the questions because he's lurking. What if he dodges the questions. What if he is completely motherfucking scummy on D1?
You haven't done it yourself, nor has Leafsnail, mister wise guy.Yes. Yes we did. We were planning. To use the kills. On those people that the town considers worthy to be killed. Instead of letting scum decide who to use their kill(s) on.
That he thinks people are scummy/useless if they disagree with him. He pretty much just outright said it.That is an outright lie because he said you were useless and scummy for initially refusing to reveal any information. Not for disagreeing with you.
Go ahead and show me a single example of something I didn't read. I'll then counter your accusation with how I had answered it and how I then used it later on, as well as how many other times I answered the exact same question with answers not read.I'm not talking about the not reading. I'm talking about the "ignoring [him] and using that to try and make arguments".
Spoiler: Spoilered so only Darvi has to facepalm. (click to show/hide)
So. You're voting me.Hmm... Let's see...
On the grounds that I'm different.
Now tell me, remember when somebody's role was fundamentally different from the others in the first B12 Mafia? I suspect something similar is going on just to make my life harder.
Hmm... Let's see...High-grade WIFOM. "This is a different game so there couldn't possibly be any similar trickery going on".
Does this look like B12 Mafia? No. This looks like BYOP Mafia. That's what it looks like. So, that means that everyone should have a similar role.
Also, if your role does something on death, your role would HINT to it, which you're not telling us.Except I did. I am the Voodoo doll. I am known for doing horrible things when destroyed. My flavour even mentions that this is a thing that regularly happens to others of my kind by people who are either stupid, brave, or insane.
If what you're telling me is correct, then Think0028 has violated Rule 10 on the front page, which wouldn't happen.Outright bending of facts. I am important simply by participating in the game. Because that's what Rule 10 means. "Win to play".
If what you're telling me is correct, then Think0028 has violated Rule 10 on the front page,What?
Not exactly. It's three kills at once at night. That is not dayplay. Lynching someone is dayplay. It is day and night play. Killing four people with Day 1 information- and act that can (although unlikely) put us into MyLo or even LyLo because of the mafiakill, and is likely to put us into near-MyLo, and is in most cases going to kill more town than scum, even more than would four lynchings is not dayplay.LS said that some of the killers are probably scum. Rolling with that assertion, they'll be able to use their kills to kill town, by getting the town to kill three other town with only D1 information. It's extremely unlikely that we'd hit all three scum with D1 daygaming and info even without scum messing-around-in-things.Just listen at yourself. The goal is not to instantly kill all scum on N1. The goal was to kill whoever everybody considers to be the most scummy. Exactly like regular dayplay.
If you buy from an insurance company that claims to save you money compared to others, (and you don't have an accident) do you have more money when you pay the initial charge than before you pay it? No. When you get a wage, do you have more money when you get the wage than before you get the wage? Yes. If you get rid of some apparent wastes of time by NKing three people in the night, do you have more information than before? No. If you play a day and do dayplay, do you have more information? Yes.QuoteWhy would I not notice if I weren't town? Anyway, it's not more information. Being a interrogator and shooting a guy in the head before he answers any questions is not more information. Neither is shooting three people N1.What if the interrogee never answers the questions because he's lurking. What if he dodges the questions. What if he is completely motherfucking scummy on D1? It is more information because then we have gotten rid of those people who would only distract from scumhunting anyway. That, indirectly, leads to more information because then we don't have to bother with them anymore.
Except unless you're scum (I think you are) you have no way of knowing who the town is, and the scum are free to influence the masskillings.QuoteYou haven't done it yourself, nor has Leafsnail, mister wise guy.Yes. Yes we did. We were planning. To use the kills. On those people that the town considers worthy to be killed. Instead of letting scum decide who to use their kill(s) on.
I never refused to reveal any information. I'm not Orangebottle. I know scum like you might have a hard time distinguishing between town members, but you should really try to try harder.QuoteThat he thinks people are scummy/useless if they disagree with him. He pretty much just outright said it.That is an outright lie because he said you were useless and scummy for initially refusing to reveal any information. Not for disagreeing with you.
Here folks is what we call "not reading my posts" or "lying". My arguments are that three kills in one night by town alone make sure there's less information (My main argument- the fact that you don't even count it shows you too are not reading my posts or lying. And by "not reading" I mean not actually deigning to think of it beyond the immediate answer, just skimming it and coming up with a failure refutal, that it's likely to kill town because scum has influence, that it's extreme enough to possibly put us at LyLo or MyLo, and most minorly (I don't even know if I ever said this) that it might not hit scum.QuoteGo ahead and show me a single example of something I didn't read. I'll then counter your accusation with how I had answered it and how I then used it later on, as well as how many other times I answered the exact same question with answers not read.I'm not talking about the not reading. I'm talking about the "ignoring [him] and using that to try and make arguments".
Because your single argument against the masskill is that "Hey that might not kill scum!"
Well guess what genius. So does lynching. Except that way we get four days worth of lynching without the mafia getting a kill in between.The mafia still gets one kill. In any event, you don't get four days' or even two days' worth of information, it's still more likely to hit town because of aforementioned information, instant MyLo and LyLo is possibly whereas N1 MyLo/LyLo is not possible with lynching, even if lynching might still not hit scum (an argument I'm still not sure I even used. You may have conjured it on the spot.)
And if one of the one-shot killers is scum, then at least we can direct them at somebody who town wants to see dead as opposed to somebody who certainly is town.See the earlier section Darvi. Only scum knows who town is. Scum has a near-free hand to mess with town's decision because you forget not everyone knows alignments like you do.
And before you start with "not enough information", have you even read how many people are good lynches by this point? Toaster already suggested a few. If you consider that to be stupid, then you better bring up some good arguments for not lynching any of you guys.Yes, there are good lynches, like you and Leafsnail. If your good lynches are more than three or four though, it's wise not to act on all of them at once. Because you're sure to hit town. This is one of the arguments I've been making.
But you're basically threatening us with your role by stating that you have absolutely no idea what happens when you die (which CANNOT happen unless your Auto ability SPECIFICALLY STATES THIS, as this would be a breach of game modding etiquette).Hmm... Let's see...High-grade WIFOM. "This is a different game so there couldn't possibly be any similar trickery going on".
Does this look like B12 Mafia? No. This looks like BYOP Mafia. That's what it looks like. So, that means that everyone should have a similar role.QuoteAlso, if your role does something on death, your role would HINT to it, which you're not telling us.Except I did. I am the Voodoo doll. I am known for doing horrible things when destroyed. My flavour even mentions that this is a thing that regularly happens to others of my kind by people who are either stupid, brave, or insane.QuoteIf what you're telling me is correct, then Think0028 has violated Rule 10 on the front page, which wouldn't happen.Outright bending of facts. I am important simply by participating in the game. Because that's what Rule 10 means. "Win to play".
Interpreting it as "everybody has the same amount of skills" into it is outright misinformation. So webadict, why are you lying?
And this is why.If what you're telling me is correct, then Think0028 has violated Rule 10 on the front page,What?
That's the biggest load of horseshit I have ever heard.
But you're basically threatening us with your role by stating that you have absolutely no idea what happens when you dieWould it be any different had he claimed,"Apon death, I turn a random person into the Wall of Flesh"?
(which CANNOT happen unless your Auto ability SPECIFICALLY STATES THIS, as this would be a breach of game modding etiquette).Okay. Where is this "game modding etiquette"?
Seeing as how every other player has 3 abilities, I can assume that you are lying. It is incredibly unlikely that you would be different, and I'm willing to bet that you're a filthy liar.It's a safe assumption. Everybody else has 3 abilities; why would Darvi only have one?
Your counter of "meh, I guess I'm different" doesn't make these things alright, and it shows that you seem to have no qualms over these discrepancies, despite that being a rather important difference between you and every other player.Surprisingly believable.
Also, I hate OrangeBottle saying not to lynch you, and want to shove things in his face.I'm actually worried about what would happen upon Darvi's death. Which is why I'm telling you not to lynch him.
I just don't see how Think can violate "Always play to win" when he isn't a player.And this is why.If what you're telling me is correct, then Think0028 has violated Rule 10 on the front page,What?
That's the biggest load of horseshit I have ever heard.
To the first, YES! That would be COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY MORE LIKELY THAN HIS CURRENT CLAIM.But you're basically threatening us with your role by stating that you have absolutely no idea what happens when you dieWould it be any different had he claimed,"Apon death, I turn a random person into the Wall of Flesh"?
Or,"Apon death, I revive and become the Wall of Flesh"?Quote(which CANNOT happen unless your Auto ability SPECIFICALLY STATES THIS, as this would be a breach of game modding etiquette).Okay. Where is this "game modding etiquette"?
Can I have a link?
Something so important must be around here somewhere.QuoteSeeing as how every other player has 3 abilities, I can assume that you are lying. It is incredibly unlikely that you would be different, and I'm willing to bet that you're a filthy liar.It's a safe assumption. Everybody else has 3 abilities; why would Darvi only have one?QuoteYour counter of "meh, I guess I'm different" doesn't make these things alright, and it shows that you seem to have no qualms over these discrepancies, despite that being a rather important difference between you and every other player.Surprisingly believable.QuoteAlso, I hate OrangeBottle saying not to lynch you, and want to shove things in his face.I'm actually worried about what would happen upon Darvi's death. Which is why I'm telling you not to lynch him.QuoteI just don't see how Think can violate "Always play to win" when he isn't a player.And this is why.If what you're telling me is correct, then Think0028 has violated Rule 10 on the front page,What?
That's the biggest load of horseshit I have ever heard.
Unless you mean some totally different front page, in which case, show me.
Not exactly. It's three kills at once at night. That is not dayplay. Lynching someone is dayplay. It is day and night play. Killing four people with Day 1 information- and act that can (although unlikely) put us into MyLo or even LyLo because of the mafiakill, and is likely to put us into near-MyLo, and is in most cases going to kill more town than scum, even more than would four lynchings is not dayplay.You seem to completely misunderstand what dayplay is. Lynching isn't dayplay. Dayplay is figuring out who's scummy and who isn't based on what they do. It is entirely possible to use NK's based on dayplay. And we have done enough of that (or rather, some people have been entirely failing to) top already have some people who would be lynched anyway.
If you buy from an insurance company that claims to save you money compared to others, (and you don't have an accident) do you have more money when you pay the initial charge than before you pay it? No. When you get a wage, do you have more money when you get the wage than before you get the wage? Yes. If you get rid of some apparent wastes of time by NKing three people in the night, do you have more information than before? No. If you play a day and do dayplay, do you have more information? Yes.Captain Miss-the-point strikes again! It isn't about gaining any direct information, it is about from all these potential false positives to distract us from actual information.
Except unless you're scum (I think you are) you have no way of knowing who the town is, and the scum are free to influence the masskillings.And how exactly is this different from lynching? The entire point of this plan is that not every-fucking-body is scum so scum has less of a chance to steer the kills on a direction that they want to. Much less than if they used a kill, in fact.
I never refused to reveal any information. I'm not Orangebottle. I know scum like you might have a hard time distinguishing between town members, but you should really try to try harder.Yes. Yes you did. I asked you to tell me something. You dodged the issue by saying "Quotes aren't everything". And then proceeded not to comply with my demand. That counts as refusing to reveal information.
Here folks is what we call "not reading my posts" or "lying". My arguments are that three kills in one night by town alone make sure there's less information (My main argument- the fact that you don't even count it shows you too are not reading my posts or lying. And by "not reading" I mean not actually deigning to think of it beyond the immediate answer, just skimming it and coming up with a failure refutal, that it's likely to kill town because scum has influence, that it's extreme enough to possibly put us at LyLo or MyLo, and most minorly (I don't even know if I ever said this) that it might not hit scum.It's all the same, though. You think that we are lacking in information and are hence liable to kill town. Except we don't and aren't. Except maybe for town who would be lynched anyway.
The mafia still gets one kill. In any event, you don't get four days' or even two days' worth of information, it's still more likely to hit town because of aforementioned information, instant MyLo and LyLo is possibly whereas N1 MyLo/LyLo is not possible with lynching, even if lynching might still not hit scum (an argument I'm still not sure I even used. You may have conjured it on the spot.)Okay then. Imagine we wouldn't kill. We would then wasting the entirety of the next days wasting our time with lynching people who are on the hitlist rght now to begin with. That is not gaining information. Also, the scum would have three additional kills, which would result in an even worse scenario.
See the earlier section Darvi. Only scum knows who town is. Scum has a near-free hand to mess with town's decision because you forget not everyone knows alignments like you do.
And how exactly is this different from lynching? The entire point of this plan is that not every-fucking-body is scum so scum has less of a chance to steer the kills on a direction that they want to. Much less than if they used a kill, in fact.
Yes, there are good lynches, like you and Leafsnail. If your good lynches are more than three or four though, it's wise not to act on all of them at once. Because you're sure to hit town. This is one of the arguments I've been making.Yay for even more issue dodging. I told you to refute any arguments for killing these people if you really cared. You proceed to ignore me and continue with the OMGUS.
I also don't think there should be no lynching.Who ever said that?
I, as I have said a billion times before and you have not read, just think we should not kill three people in one night for reasons you need to read. Because you haven't. Stop using these "your only argument" arguments, because they only prove that you either haven't looked at my posts, you're lying scum, or you're being ignorant.How funny. I could say the same thing about you. Because you keep ignoring both LS' and my arguments. And as I said before, lack of information and killing town is, in this context, identical.
But you're basically threatening us with your role by stating that you have absolutely no idea what happens when you die (which CANNOT happen unless your Auto ability SPECIFICALLY STATES THIS, as this would be a breach of game modding etiquette).Some things aren't written in roles. Like insane inspectors, mystery roles, or whatever. It is also entirely possible that I, in fact, don't have any effect on the game other than being a player.
It is because of these things that I am certain you're lying. Your flavor is not the same as an action, and because you have just claimed that your Auto ability states you have no action, it seems almost contradictory to even HAVE that Auto ability, as that itself could be shown by having NO abilities, period!Maybe that ability is only there to rub my impotence into my face. I don't know, but considering my next paragraph it seems likely.
Your counter of "meh, I guess I'm different" doesn't make these things alright, and it shows that you seem to have no qualms over these discrepancies, despite that being a rather important difference between you and every other player.No. As I said, I have a hunch for why I am different, but since you won't listen to me anyway, I guess I'll have to tell you anyway.
Also, I hate OrangeBottle saying not to lynch you, and want to shove things in his face.That I agree on, because buddying. I didn't want to point it out though because I felt it would reflect badly on me.
To the first, YES! That would be COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY MORE LIKELY THAN HIS CURRENT CLAIM.Except I had no incentive to say so because I have no actual ability saying so. Also, if I did in fact claim that then everybody's reaction would probably be to lynch me for being a horrible murder machine.
To the etiquette, it's considered poor manner to have hidden aspects to roles without warning the players first.Except I did get a warning of sorts in my flavour, what with people summoning the WoF and whatnot. And before you say anything, yes that counts. Witches' coven is a good example of this because millers weren't informed of their millerness.
To the 10th rule, I'm specifically referring to the importance of each role. Each role is meant as a counter to other roles, and having a role with no actions counters no one.Some roles don't counter anything, though, and are entirely proactive. Vigs and inspectors come to mind. And assuming what the mod would do is WIFOM.
Also, scum cannot kill, because if they do, eitherYou got my name wrong.PMOB rats the killer out or he is scum who will be lynched.
I am a survivor. Basically my goal is to not end up like all the other voodoo dolls before me and stay alive until the game ends. Me having no ability is basically the same as the as the archcherub role in B12mafa in that it means "Have fun trying to convince people that you in fact have no ability".
I have no reason to buddy. I'm going to be lynched tomorrow. Period. It is guaranteed. Buddying won't change that.QuoteAlso, I hate OrangeBottle saying not to lynch you, and want to shove things in his face.That I agree on, because buddying. I didn't want to point it out though because I felt it would reflect badly on me.
Some roles don't counter anything, though, and are entirely proactive. Vigs and inspectors come to mind.Vigilantes counter every killable scum role.
Darvi, if lynching isn't dayplay, three NKs in the night isn't scummy.Not exactly. It's three kills at once at night. That is not dayplay. Lynching someone is dayplay. It is day and night play. Killing four people with Day 1 information- and act that can (although unlikely) put us into MyLo or even LyLo because of the mafiakill, and is likely to put us into near-MyLo, and is in most cases going to kill more town than scum, even more than would four lynchings is not dayplay.You seem to completely misunderstand what dayplay is. Lynching isn't dayplay. Dayplay is figuring out who's scummy and who isn't based on what they do. It is entirely possible to use NK's based on dayplay. And we have done enough of that (or rather, some people have been entirely failing to) top already have some people who would be lynched anyway.
Also, scum cannot kill, because if they do, either PM rats the killer out or he is scum who will be lynched.I'm not Orangebottle I also don't have Orangebottle's oneshot. GET IT STRAIGHT. Good point on the mafiakill though. Make it only MyLo possible then.
Captain Miss-the-point strikes again! It isn't about gaining any direct information, it is about from all these potential false positives to distract us from actual information.[/quote] You just grandly missed the point. It doesn't matter if you prevent yourself from being distracted from getting information if you have no opportunity to get it in the first place. It's like trying to get people to give you a basketball when they're still setting up the court.QuoteIf you buy from an insurance company that claims to save you money compared to others, (and you don't have an accident) do you have more money when you pay the initial charge than before you pay it? No. When you get a wage, do you have more money when you get the wage than before you get the wage? Yes. If you get rid of some apparent wastes of time by NKing three people in the night, do you have more information than before? No. If you play a day and do dayplay, do you have more information? Yes.
Also your hard to understand metaphor makes me think you're complicating things on purpose.Think that if you will.
And then I promptly admitted in the next post (which I guess you didn't read) that I hadn't known what I was talking about. And then Leafsnail posted on it.QuoteExcept unless you're scum (I think you are) you have no way of knowing who the town is, and the scum are free to influence the masskillings.And how exactly is this different from lynching? The entire point of this plan is that not every-fucking-body is scum so scum has less of a chance to steer the kills on a direction that they want to. Much less than if they used a kill, in fact.QuoteI never refused to reveal any information. I'm not Orangebottle. I know scum like you might have a hard time distinguishing between town members, but you should really try to try harder.Yes. Yes you did. I asked you to tell me something. You dodged the issue by saying "Quotes aren't everything". And then proceeded not to comply with my demand. That counts as refusing to reveal information.
Except we do and are, as we have hunches, and think people are scum, but different ones of us think different people are scum. Unless you would like to argue that some of us see ourselves as scummy? I love how you yell at me last post or so of yours for supposed baseless assertions and then you do it yourself.QuoteHere folks is what we call "not reading my posts" or "lying". My arguments are that three kills in one night by town alone make sure there's less information (My main argument- the fact that you don't even count it shows you too are not reading my posts or lying. And by "not reading" I mean not actually deigning to think of it beyond the immediate answer, just skimming it and coming up with a failure refutal, that it's likely to kill town because scum has influence, that it's extreme enough to possibly put us at LyLo or MyLo, and most minorly (I don't even know if I ever said this) that it might not hit scum.It's all the same, though. You think that we are lacking in information and are hence liable to kill town. Except we don't and aren't. Except maybe for town who would be lynched anyway.
Not just people who are on the hitlist right now. We would use information gained from the different days to lynch perhaps some hitlist people but probably to lynch people like you and Leafsnail who are scum, instead of three townies at once and then more nks in the following days for scum.QuoteThe mafia still gets one kill. In any event, you don't get four days' or even two days' worth of information, it's still more likely to hit town because of aforementioned information, instant MyLo and LyLo is possibly whereas N1 MyLo/LyLo is not possible with lynching, even if lynching might still not hit scum (an argument I'm still not sure I even used. You may have conjured it on the spot.)Okay then. Imagine we wouldn't kill. We would then wasting the entirety of the next days wasting our time with lynching people who are on the hitlist rght now to begin with. That is not gaining information. Also, the scum would have three additional kills, which would result in an even worse scenario.
Also, scum does not, in fact, get a kill without at least one of them being publically revealed. But you haven't been paying attention either it looks like.
Now you're just being ridiculous. I have explained how it's different from lynching many, many times. Go read them. And sure not everyone's scum. But it's not like everyone is in a vacuum and it's not like people aren't influenced at all! not everyone has to be scum.QuoteSee the earlier section Darvi. Only scum knows who town is. Scum has a near-free hand to mess with town's decision because you forget not everyone knows alignments like you do.Quote from: Me, right nowAnd how exactly is this different from lynching? The entire point of this plan is that not every-fucking-body is scum so scum has less of a chance to steer the kills on a direction that they want to. Much less than if they used a kill, in fact.
Oh, you're a laugh. Darvi. You said to refute any argument for lynching these people if you really cared. I then explained that I don't think there should be no lynching. And then it's somehow OMGUS that I call you scum despite the fact that you haven't even voted for me and despite the fact that I have reasons for calling you scum, have been going on in this attack, and am not voting you.QuoteYes, there are good lynches, like you and Leafsnail. If your good lynches are more than three or four though, it's wise not to act on all of them at once. Because you're sure to hit town. This is one of the arguments I've been making.Yay for even more issue dodging. I told you to refute any arguments for killing these people if you really cared. You proceed to ignore me and continue with the OMGUS.
And again the "Because you're sure to hit town" aka MASSACRE. I'll repeat it as often as I have to: lynching is also almost just as sure to hit town.No, actually. You'll note that in BYOP the scum who died were lynched. Because the town got them from stuff in the day. And this is a simple numerical argument. If you kill more people than there are scum, you'll kill town.
You did.QuoteI also don't think there should be no lynching.Who ever said that?
QuoteI, as I have said a billion times before and you have not read, just think we should not kill three people in one night for reasons you need to read. Because you haven't. Stop using these "your only argument" arguments, because they only prove that you either haven't looked at my posts, you're lying scum, or you're being ignorant.How funny. I could say the same thing about you. Because you keep ignoring both LS' and my arguments. And as I said before, lack of information and killing town is, in this context, identical.QuoteGive me a single argument I've ignored. I'll show you where I answered it, where you ignored me answering it, and where I later used it against you or referenced it. And lack of information and killing town are not identical arguments. If you're going to go that path. Everything you said is the same therefore I don't have to listen to it.
Yeah. That makes real sense.
They both lead to death of town and survival of sucm and loss of town, but that's what any incorrect town action will do, so your argument is just doing what I said that kind of argument does.
No, actually. You'll note that in BYOP the scum who died were lynched. Because the town got them from stuff in the day. And this is a simple numerical argument. If you kill more people than there are scum, you'll kill town.Wrong. Webadict was killed N1, and I was endgame killed.
Also, scum cannot kill, because if they do, either PM rats the killer out or he is scum who will be lynched.
PPE2: Waitwaitwait ... Darvi, who's role name is taken from an item that is supposed to be chucked into lavaThere's your answer.
But! On the other hand, webadict, you're going to have to serve me a slice of "what the fuck are you talking about" in regards to this 10th rule business. Assuming for a minute Darvi currently doesn't have any explicit abilities, his presence in the game (and thereby his ability to ask questions, scumhunt, etc.) and his vote are things that I would qualify as having importance. Ah, and I see as I'm reading Darvi has already stated much of the same thing.Other than the fact that he's lying about his role:
And Jack A T, what the fuck are you saying? We shouldn't lynch OB even though he's probably scum? A useful ability is not useful if scum has it.Crown: Basically, OB claimed a power that is extremely useful to us if he is town, which also happens to be a power which would get him killed if he's faking it. We're forcing him to use it tonight, while taking action to prevent him from lying about it safely. Basically, either scum doesn't get to kill whoever they want, scum killer dies, or scumOB dies.
People who are on board the "kill three people" plan should come up with targets. ATM I think Powder for misunderstandings verging on intentional, MBP for not participating, and ECrown for his inability to pay attention (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=98843.msg2907969#msg2907969) and that he hasn't done anything today besides that.Kill/lynch targets: Currently, lynch Powder Miner for evasiveness/refusing to explain his accusations/general lack of awareness of everything/seemingly deliberate inability to understand direct democracy, kill Darvi for unfitting and suspicious claim/being a claimed non-town, kill ECrownofFire for extreme inactivity/lack of awareness of everything...not sure who would take the last slot.
Alright, fine.And Jack A T, what the fuck are you saying? We shouldn't lynch OB even though he's probably scum? A useful ability is not useful if scum has it.Crown: Basically, OB claimed a power that is extremely useful to us if he is town, which also happens to be a power which would get him killed if he's faking it. We're forcing him to use it tonight, while taking action to prevent him from lying about it safely. Basically, either scum doesn't get to kill whoever they want, scum killer dies, or scumOB dies.
So let's just lynch anyone that doesn't agree with you then.I'm somewhat okay with this. This has been a very productive day and the use of one-shot kills right now prevents scum from using them as LYLO breakers. And, of course, this plan effectively gives us more lynches before LYLO. However, I don't really like the rush to kill people with only D1 information.So yeah, it make make sense to kill day 2 if we run out of time today. Although I should add two caveats.
1. If any killer fires without town permission and kills a townie we lynch them. No idiot defences. No "I was just mistaken" defences. We lynch them (I'm saying this now because I feel like Powder Miner is probably gonna kill me tonight and claim he thought I was scum beyond reasonable doubt). We're not gonna let scum have extra kills due to their delaying the kills.
2. If any killer refuses to fire when the town agrees on their target we lynch them. Because otherwise scum could refuse to kill their partner.
More town kills is not necessarily good if they're all based on D1 knowledge, which might as well be random. Not to mention that everyone that has a 1-shot kill is not necessarily town in the first place.With our current information it might as well be random. And it looks like Leafsnail's definition of scummy/useless appears to be everyone who disagrees with him.My definition of useless is people who don't know basic ideas in mafia that I learnt in pretty much my first set of games on #mafia (more town kills = good, more mafia kills = bad). Or alternatively, you're scum and know this.
So... I suppose that you disagreeing with me on such a simple point is a result of you being useless or scum, so you've merely got the causality backwards.
Powder Miner: If, say, mechanics allowed four lynches to be decided during the day at the same time (taking effect at the same time, as well), would you consider those four lynches to be dayplay? I can't believe I'm asking this question.Yes they're dayplay, but no, they're not useful. There's no information in between the lynches themselves (i.e. whether or not the lynched people were scum or not). And generally speaking, town wants to avoid a fast game. Speeding our way to MYLO as fast as possible is not a good idea. We want information and scum deaths from lynches, not random town deaths.
Alright, Leafsnail, your plan is idiotic and basically amounts to chain-lynching with zero information between kills based on D1 knowledge, which is pretty fucking stupid.I couldn't put it more concisely myself.
Everyone who supports the quadrilynch plan:That's the point. If a killer is scum, we can keep them from using it in an anti-town manner, namely by using it on people that the town wants to die.
What the unholy fuck makes you think that all three of our one-shot killers are pro-town or that their one-shot is indeed one-shot?
I'll just go ahead and do nothing today.Tell me why we shouldn't get rid of you for that.
No. If people are told not to kill by everybody else, and proceed to kill anyway, or refuse to kill when told to by general consensus, then they should hang for doing not exactly what town wants to. You're misinterpreting stuff here. On purpose even because it says so pretty clear in LS' post.So yeah, it make make sense to kill day 2 if we run out of time today. Although I should add two caveats.So let's just lynch anyone that doesn't agree with you then.
1. If any killer fires without town permission and kills a townie we lynch them. No idiot defences. No "I was just mistaken" defences. We lynch them (I'm saying this now because I feel like Powder Miner is probably gonna kill me tonight and claim he thought I was scum beyond reasonable doubt). We're not gonna let scum have extra kills due to their delaying the kills.
2. If any killer refuses to fire when the town agrees on their target we lynch them. Because otherwise scum could refuse to kill their partner.
Darvi, if you want the answer to that read my earlier posts. You know, the discussion we've been having?I see what you did there. That is, once again dodging the question. Give me a straight answer
Hey Darvi. Something's not happening that you said would happen.I'm not going to let you off until we have a general idea what is going to happen and it was ensured that it was going to happen. Because there's no reason to keep you around if you can fakeclaim due to not everybody being accounted for.
It has something to do with the votes, and me promising to use my oneshot tonight.
If you really do agree to use your oneshot then I agree with letting you live.I'm pretty damn sure I agreed.
Um, hey. Darvi. If everybody's actions aren't predetermined, doesn't that make it harder for me to fakeclaim?Hey Darvi. Something's not happening that you said would happen.I'm not going to let you off until we have a general idea what is going to happen and it was ensured that it was going to happen. Because there's no reason to keep you around if you can fakeclaim due to not everybody being accounted for.
It has something to do with the votes, and me promising to use my oneshot tonight.
I'm pretty damn sure I agreed.Nothing keeping you from fakeclaiming so far, as far as I can see.
Hey, so, we should lynch Darvi for being a lying jerk.While ignoring people have been purposefully been ignoring the game, dodging questions and lurking the day away.
Well, no, not entirely. Lynching survivors is a totally valid reason by itself, but the fact that you were and still currently ARE lying should be enough. Not only that, but explain how a survivor would live with no abilities in a game with 3 one-shot killers and a mafiakill? Hope for a protect?Hey, so, we should lynch Darvi for being a lying jerk.While ignoring people have been purposefully been ignoring the game, dodging questions and lurking the day away.
With reasons you have no proof for other than wine. Sure.
That's the point. If a killer is scum, we can keep them from using it in an anti-town manner, namely by using it on people that the town wants to die.And guess why the scum will follow through with the kill? Because they knew the target is town. Otherwise, they can just claim being blocked or shit.
If their kill isn't a one-shot, then they either are town (unlikely because lying) or a SK, which can be easily found out. Because a dual-kill mafia is OP (RL 2 much?)Who said anything about dual-kill? The normal mafiakill is enough.
To all of you opposing the N1-kill plan: How about a compromise. We either only use one kill tonight, per night, until N3. Or we do the plan, but on N2.I still don't like this plan, but what the fuck. Let's go with the first variant lest we waste some vigkills. And I'll use my night action to make sure the killers don't fuck around. Count me in. But OB still hangs because one-shot or not he's a scummy asshole.
But OB still hangs because one-shot or not he's a scummy asshole.Nah. I kinda like him living. He cannot possibly lie about his action tonight. And we have better targets.
Everyone else has 3 abilities, an auto, an action, and a one-shot. Therefore, it is logical that you do as well and are lying. That is 12 people that are the same in a game with 13 people, so what are the chances of the 13th player being different? Not nearly high enough to take the chance.This. Is exactly the kind of WIFOM that I am talking about. Also, read this. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ProofByExamples)
You have claimed survivor. Therefore, it is logical that you should have abilities fitting a survivor such as revival, hiding, etc.I think a resurrect would be kind of a pro-survivor ability, no? Except there's no way of finding that out until I die and I'd really rather not have that.
You claimed a pro-scum role. Therefore, as you are basically one step closer to lylo, lynching you should be imperative. Not only that, but since this is Day 1, you are a perfect player to lynch. You have no claimed actions, and you are a survivor.Lies and slander. I have not claimed a pro-scum role. It is also in my interest to be pro-town until lylo because it is way harder to not only find out who's scum, but to also build a case on people who I think are town, and not get called out on it.
You have claimed an ability that states you do nothing. Therefore, it is illogical, as the removal of that ability would show the exact same thing. Not only that, but BYORs are role-heavy, meaning everyone should have at least one action. This can be shown again by deduction, as every BYOR that has ever run had every player with an action.Think may very well have been simply a dick.
So, the best reasons to lynch you are:Those aren't reasons to kill me, either.
1. You're a CLAIMED survivor with no actions. This is indisputable.
2. You are CLAIMED to be incredibly different from every other player. This is indisputable.
3. You have previously lied to the town. This is indisputable.Again, lies and slander unless you can prove it.
4. You haven't taken any care to disprove my theories other than that the basis is on deduction rather than induction. This does not show that the conclusion is false. This shows that the conclusion COULD be false. However, it is EXTREMELY LIKELY TO BE TRUE. This is only slightly disputable.Your deduction is based on "Everybody else has 3 roles, so Darvi must also have one" Which you not only cannot prove, but I also have no way of disproving. It is also a blatant fallacy.
5. You have FoOMGUSed me for suspecting you. That's a combination FoS OMGUS. This is only slightly disputable.I FOS'd you for falsely interpreting the meaning of Rule 10.
Explain these away, idiot.Done, aaand, done.
All of my "WIFOM" theories go in to show HOW these are suspicious. They do not remove these reasons.I cannot remove these reasons because I don't have to, and cannot. There's no way to prove that I cannot action.
Also, I think you made an error in whatever it was you were saying.Wheeee more misinterpreting.
I was never lurking.
Questions I've dodged were either questions that I preferred not to answer at that time (or said previously I was doing as such) or questions I missed. If you can find said missed questions, I'll gladly answer them. If they're ones I'm not answering, then I'll tell you that, too.
And that first point... isn't a point.
And guess why the scum will follow through with the kill? Because they knew the target is town. Otherwise, they can just claim being blocked or shit.Except that we have a claimed omniscient tracker who can confirm or deny any roleblocks on them. And if he's lying about that, we ask the killer to target the same person again. Simple enough.
Who said anything about dual-kill? The normal mafiakill is enough.Again, omniscient tracker. Either he tells us who did the kill or he is even more confirmed to be scum.
So, you said you'd unvote me if I agreed to use my oneshot tonight. I did. You have failed to deliver, on the ground of,"I may be fakeclaiming."I'm pretty damn sure I agreed.Nothing keeping you from fakeclaiming so far, as far as I can see.
Want to hear my theory? OB is lying about his one-shot, and it's actually something that will save him tomorrow. Well, that or his buddies have something to save him tomorrow. Taking this kind of risk is stupid, IMO.And then what? It saves him the next day? It saves him at night? What?
To the etiquette, it's considered poor manner to have hidden aspects to roles without warning the players first.
I'll just go ahead and do nothing today.
Extend.
I think any replacement requesters should be killed at night, in any case, to them not be around at LyLo
More town kills is not necessarily good if they're all based on D1 knowledge, which might as well be random. Not to mention that everyone that has a 1-shot kill is not necessarily town in the first place.
Powder Miner: If, say, mechanics allowed four lynches to be decided during the day at the same time (taking effect at the same time, as well), would you consider those four lynches to be dayplay? I can't believe I'm asking this question.Yes they're dayplay, but no, they're not useful. There's no information in between the lynches themselves (i.e. whether or not the lynched people were scum or not). And generally speaking, town wants to avoid a fast game. Speeding our way to MYLO as fast as possible is not a good idea. We want information and scum deaths from lynches, not random town deaths.
Everyone who supports the quadrilynch plan:
What the unholy fuck makes you think that all three of our one-shot killers are pro-town or that their one-shot is indeed one-shot?
Want to hear my theory? OB is lying about his one-shot, and it's actually something that will save him tomorrow. Well, that or his buddies have something to save him tomorrow. Taking this kind of risk is stupid, IMO.
Quote from: Jack A TPowder Miner: There is no plan that involves killing three random people. There is a plan that involves killing three people that we, as a group, decide on during the day based on scumminess during the day, but that's not killing random people.With our current information it might as well be random. And it looks like Leafsnail's definition of scummy/useless appears to be everyone who disagrees with him.
Alternatively, another oh-so-basic mafia idea- less needless town deaths = good, more needless town deaths = bad. Or another one. More information = good, less = bad.
LS said that some of the killers are probably scum. Rolling with that assertion, they'll be able to use their kills to kill town, by getting the town to kill three other town with only D1 information. It's extremely unlikely that we'd hit all three scum with D1 daygaming and info even without scum messing-around-in-things.Alternatively, another oh-so-basic mafia idea- less needless town deaths = good, more needless town deaths = bad. Or another one. More information = good, less = bad.You're talking like you know that all the people LS suggests to kill are town.
Webadict:Yes. It's pretty bad to have intentionally hidden aspects to a role. Everybody should have learned.To the etiquette, it's considered poor manner to have hidden aspects to roles without warning the players first.
Just like BYOR 5.5, right?
Want to hear my theory? OB is lying about his one-shot, and it's actually something that will save him tomorrow. Well, that or his buddies have something to save him tomorrow. Taking this kind of risk is stupid, IMO.Okay.
-snip-Actually, you're right. Voting you doesn't really achieve anything. PM because I shoulda done so ages ago.
Darvi: Did you realize your "I hate being town" meta is showing? Somehow I doubt a survivor role could set it off that much.You mean how I'm more active than usually? That's because as town I can still win if I'm dead. As a survivor, not so much. I figured the best way to not get lynched is to put more effort into scumhunting than usual.
and Darvi. Killing a survivor is hardly a waste of an action.Go fuck one of wuba's lemons.
Sure. Take the easy way out by not answering the question I asked you in that post. That'll get me off your ass real fast.-snip-Actually, you're right. Voting you doesn't really achieve anything. PM because I shoulda done so ages ago.
So, why are you so afraid of untying the vote?Considering you just re-tied the vote, it's still a valid question.
Vote hopping is an incredibly effective method of showing you're scum.-snip-Actually, you're right. Voting you doesn't really achieve anything. PM because I shoulda done so ages ago.Darvi: Did you realize your "I hate being town" meta is showing? Somehow I doubt a survivor role could set it off that much.You mean how I'm more active than usually? That's because as town I can still win if I'm dead. As a survivor, not so much. I figured the best way to not get lynched is to put more effort into scumhunting than usual.Quoteand Darvi. Killing a survivor is hardly a waste of an action.Go fuck one of wuba's lemons.
Sure. Take the easy way out by not answering the question I asked you in that post. That'll get me off your ass real fast.
Considering you just re-tied the vote, it's still a valid question.
Vote hopping is an incredibly effective method of showing you're scum.Even if I have called my new target scummy several times before?
Three for Leafsnail and three for PM.Sure. Take the easy way out by not answering the question I asked you in that post. That'll get me off your ass real fast.
Considering you just re-tied the vote, it's still a valid question.
Wait what, tied? I count two people voting for you and three for PM, unless I'm mistaken.
Anyway, I told you why. I didn't want you to get into night without having some sort of backup to ensure the most reliable results....
Of course, in hindsight, I have realized that there is no fakeclaim that would incriminate scum any more than ensuring your lynch (which is kinda redundant anyway) so you would be able to fakeclaim without repercussions. Which is why I stopped voting for you.That doesn't make any sense.
Well, no, not entirely. Lynching survivors is a totally valid reason by itself, but the fact that you were and still currently ARE lying should be enough. Not only that, but explain how a survivor would live with no abilities in a game with 3 one-shot killers and a mafiakill? Hope for a protect?
Shakerag: You're worrying me. Your last post is the first in a while, and the only one to contain real pertinent information. You talk a lot about what's going on, but only a little about meaning and implication. Finally, you don't actually take a firm stand on any issue, especially waffling back and forth there at the end. You're not voting- who should we lynch? Who, if anyone, should be NKed tonight?
Want to hear my theory? OB is lying about his one-shot, and it's actually something that will save him tomorrow. Well, that or his buddies have something to save him tomorrow. Taking this kind of risk is stupid, IMO.
Also ... I didn't see anyone else mentioning this, but I can't imagine I'm the only one thinking it ... assuming OB's abilities are true, shouldn't we be concerned that the scumteam would likely want to NK him?Enter Herr Doktor, solver of mafiakill-related problems.
Also ... I didn't see anyone else mentioning this, but I can't imagine I'm the only one thinking it ... assuming OB's abilities are true, shouldn't we be concerned that the scumteam would likely want to NK him?Enter Herr Doktor, solver of mafiakill-related problems.
Kill/lynch targets: Currently, lynch Powder Miner for evasivenessWhere?
/refusing to explain his accusationsJust because you people on board with the plan don't read my myriad explanations doesn't mean I'm not saying them.
/general lack of awareness of everythingI love how you don't substantiate that charge in any way. Incorrect insults are not points, Jack.
/seemingly deliberate inability to understand direct democracyOh yeah, I don't agree with you, so I clearly don't understand direct democracy! If we used this in real life elections, we could get a one=party system going!
Powder Miner: If, say, mechanics allowed four lynches to be decided during the day at the same time (taking effect at the same time, as well), would you consider those four lynches to be dayplay? I can't believe I'm asking this question.Yes. In a Lights Out game like that, my view of what dayplay would be would be different, so In would think it dayplay. But this is not Lights Out.
To all of you opposing the N1-kill plan: How about a compromise. We either only use one kill tonight, per night, until N3. Or we do the plan, but on N2.That first one sounds great.
As I've already said, information is also daygaming.
Powder:Quote from: Jack A TPowder Miner: There is no plan that involves killing three random people. There is a plan that involves killing three people that we, as a group, decide on during the day based on scumminess during the day, but that's not killing random people.With our current information it might as well be random. And it looks like Leafsnail's definition of scummy/useless appears to be everyone who disagrees with him.
This is just poor play. There's plenty of information to go on here- waiting on an inspect is just weakness in your day game.
My gut's telling me you're a serial killer, but any flavor of scum is a good reason to lynch you.This isn't a reason.
Townies do die. But we shouldn't rush to do a plan that can kill enough of them to put us at D2 LyLo. And even thoguh th town is there, the influential ones could be mafia. Like I think Leafsnail's scum, and look how influential on the whole thing he's been.Alternatively, another oh-so-basic mafia idea- less needless town deaths = good, more needless town deaths = bad. Or another one. More information = good, less = bad.
Townies die. It sucks, but it happens. This is a chance for more kills that are not picked out completely by the mafia. Do you see the benefit in that?
Yes, more voices but not necessary as influential voices. How many times do I have to say this?LS said that some of the killers are probably scum. Rolling with that assertion, they'll be able to use their kills to kill town, by getting the town to kill three other town with only D1 information. It's extremely unlikely that we'd hit all three scum with D1 daygaming and info even without scum messing-around-in-things.Alternatively, another oh-so-basic mafia idea- less needless town deaths = good, more needless town deaths = bad. Or another one. More information = good, less = bad.You're talking like you know that all the people LS suggests to kill are town.
Again, poor play. Here you're saying that the scum will dictate to the town who to kill, which is wrong. The town has more voices in this- if you're town and just sit back and let things happen, you have no one to blame but yourself. It's exactly the same thing as if you sit back and scum direct the lynch. There is no difference.
Can you name four people you find scummy and are worthy of being removed? I bet you can't.No, because I'm not trying to kill everyone at once.
I wanted to vote Darvi and suggest Powder Miner for being NK'd, but I suppose I can settle on reversing the order.
PM has a reason other than "I don't want to waste the kills". He said it, but you ignored it.Strawmen arguments aren't really worth responding to. I'll give you a hint: I'm not advocating killing 3 random people, and "discussion between kills" shouldn't matter so much unless we're chainlynching.I've answered it over and over and I see you haven't listened- the clear difference is that these kills are over in one idiotic charge. With lynches, there's discussion in between kills, results of gameplay between days. I'm fine with deciding via discussion and daygame who is scummy and lynching them. Making a snap decision now and killing three random people has little of such discussion, if any.
Speaking of which, why did you suddenly decide to stop ignoring PM?I said I'd stop ignoring him and you when some people who can play got into this thread. That happened so I'm not longer ignoring him.
Unless one of our oneshotters is masquerading their mafiakill as a oneshot kill. In which case, they probably can't kill their partner, meaning we find two scum instead of just one.Yep. Although scum doing that seems pretty silly since it couldn't really have any positive effect.
Ottofar is always like that. He'd be a good NK. If we're going after these four, we must lynch one of PM or ECrown. Cause PM is kill immune and ECrown would just delay it to night 2. Then we need to find another target.A delayed action kill on ECrown wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing. But yeah, that makes sense.
I don't have a kill.Must have got you confused with some else. This is good though, since I no longer care in the slightest what you think about the extra lynches plan. If you want to argue more about the merits of extra town kills we can do it after the game has finished.
I don't have a kill.
I don't have a kill.
I don't have a kill.
How many times do I have to say it?
Alright, Leafsnail, your plan is idiotic and basically amounts to chain-lynching with zero information between kills based on D1 knowledge, which is pretty fucking stupid.There's no chainlynching at all. Chainlynching is lynching one person then lynching the person who lynched them if they're town. This is eradicating useless and scummy people. Such as yourself. So it makes perfect sense that you'd want to get rid of me before we can do that.
Everyone who supports the quadrilynch plan:THE FACT THAT THEY MIGHT BE SCUM IS EXACTLY WHY WE WANT TO ASSIGN THEM TARGETS WHO ARE SCUMMY
What the unholy fuck makes you think that all three of our one-shot killers are pro-town or that their one-shot is indeed one-shot?
In summary, we should lynch Powder Miner (lynch since he's claimed unkillable) and kill Ottofar, MBP, and Darvi. Killing a survivor is hardly a waste of an action. Tomorrow, if OB is lying, he's lynched. Otherwise, we see his results and go from there.I can pretty much get behind these (Powder Miner for being far more focused on ensuring that we don't try to kill scum than finding scum, Ottofar for being scum and a lurker and Darvi for having a 0% chance of being town). Except I'd kill Dariush (probably over MBP) since he's a useless asshole as town and I hate making allowances for scummy play constantly just because it's "in someone's meta".
I still have no idea what you mean by this, Darvi.QuoteOf course, in hindsight, I have realized that there is no fakeclaim that would incriminate scum any more than ensuring your lynch (which is kinda redundant anyway) so you would be able to fakeclaim without repercussions. Which is why I stopped voting for you.That doesn't make any sense.
More on this later, cause I'm short on time.
There was no sarcasm there. We have a doctor and a bodyguard, and some roles that can ensure that they make it to their target.Also ... I didn't see anyone else mentioning this, but I can't imagine I'm the only one thinking it ... assuming OB's abilities are true, shouldn't we be concerned that the scumteam would likely want to NK him?Enter Herr Doktor, solver of mafiakill-related problems.
Forgive me for being awfully thick, but I don't see why the sarcasm was necessary. I'm trying to address what I believe is a legitimate concern.
When does the day end today?Thursday.
Acting like scum and is immune to kills.I don't see the first part. But, I do see why lynching him may be beneficial to you.
Today/Tonight I would remove Leafsnail and Darvi.I'd be willing to do this too, especially if Leafsnail flips scum.
Orangebottle: You're still defending him, even if you later attack him.Okay.
I feel like you're saying this because that's what you want to believe is true.No, I'm saying it because I believe it's true.
Do you have something to hide that OB's ability is making you nervous about, Dariush?No, I don't.
YES??? UNDERSTAND? Look, if they are scum, they could just kill a townie any time and say "Oh, I thought he was scum". If we force them to kill a scummy person now then we could out them (if they refuse to kill a partner), kill their partner or at least have a scummy person dead rather than a townie person....you really are stupid. If we assign them somebody who happens to be of their aligment, they may just lie about being blocked. Otherwise, they will be blocked by scum if they target scum. And our only way to check out the truth of that is by using OB's oneshot, assuming he isn't scum, that he isn't fakeclaiming, that he doesn't go all angsty D2 because waaah we wanted to lynch him and refuse to tell us the results, that he will be protected (or at least not killed), that scum don't have any way to bypass the protection on him and kill him anyway, don't have a daykill, can't skew his results in some way, assuming, assuming and assuming some more. This plan has more holes in it than a plan with a LOT of holes in it. Which means a LOOOOOOOOOOOT. Also, that PM bandwagon. Leafsnail.
I don't see the first part. But, I do see why lynching him may be beneficial to you.Well, lynching scum is pretty beneficial to me. The hint at the first part is how he's spent the whole day arguing that we shouldn't try to kill scum rather than finding scum (and voted me purely for a plan that would help us off scum).
Today/Tonight I would remove Leafsnail and Darvi.I'm scummy for wanting people killed tonight so you want to kill people tonight. Awesome.
I'd be willing to do this too, especially if Leafsnail flips scum.Lolchainlynch. Seriously, what.
...you really are stupid. If we assign them somebody who happens to be of their aligment, they may just lie about being blocked. Otherwise, they will be blocked by scum if they target scum. And our only way to check out the truth of that is by using OB's oneshot, assuming he isn't scum, that he isn't fakeclaiming, that he doesn't go all angsty D2 because waaah we wanted to lynch him and refuse to tell us the results, that he will be protected (or at least not killed), that scum don't have any way to bypass the protection on him and kill him anyway, don't have a daykill, can't skew his results in some way, assuming, assuming and assuming some more. This plan has more holes in it than a plan with a LOT of holes in it. Which means a LOOOOOOOOOOOT. Also, that PM bandwagon. Leafsnail.This is amazingly incoherent. If scum blocks them then we'll just see whose block is missing and lynch them (because people know if they're blocked). And then you say a bunch of things that are extremely unlikely and paint them as if they're big holes in the plan.
Powder: Two? No one else is scummy?Well, I haven't got to anyone else yet.
Would you rather the people with one shot kills use them from consensus, use them on their own choice, or hold on to them?They'll easily be blocked if it's by consensus, and that's when the scum are actually able to influence it, by convincing other people to change their votes. So actually, by choice.
Also I've just noticed that ALL the people voting me are completely coincidentally the same people who intentionally stalled their claims when we MC'd. But I'm not making any insinuations that they're once again trying to block a town plan that will damage them.You didn't notice that I completely coincidentally never stalled my claim.
Yes I'm aware they can't all be scum some of them must just be double stupid.
For the other kill tonight I'd go for a lurky scummy person. IE Ottofar. I mean are his posts invisible to everyone except me?Posts? What posts? Who is this "Ottofar"?
One kill a night sounds better than any other option right now. Let's have Imik do the kill if a replacement arrives in time.
One kill a night sounds better than any other option right now. Let's have Imik do the kill if a replacement arrives in time.Why do you think Imik should do the kill rather than yourself?
It's a quick way to determine scum. When somebody's been requesting a replacement, there's not exactly much to go off of.One kill a night sounds better than any other option right now. Let's have Imik do the kill if a replacement arrives in time.Why do you think Imik should do the kill rather than yourself?
Webadict: What are your opinions on Powder Miner and Leafsnail?I think Powder's being dumb, and I think Leafsnail is being himself.
But first of all, why the fuck would you kill me purely on being inactive?
2. Days are 72 hours while Nights are 24 hours. Neither time span includes weekends, though I may end weekend-spanning nights after 24 hours if all night actions are in. Unless otherwise stated, days and nights end at 11 PM EST.
I think the Doctor and the Bodyguard should both be protecting me, just in case one of them is scum.If we follow this plan, the only people who won't be drunk in the morning should be ECrown, you, Toaster, and Jack AT himself. Jack will be blocked and ECrown's kill should be visible, so if you die the only possible killer would be Toaster. If anyone else dies, it's you or Toaster (either way we can lynch you both then continue with the drunk plan).
You can never be too careful.
...Aaaccttuually, why don't we just get as many of us as possible to target Jack AT? Everyone who uses an action against him will have an alibi for the mafia kill if they make one (assuming he isn't killed, and he shouldn't be since MBP can "copy-protect" him).We should be doing this.
...Aaaccttuually, why don't we just get as many of us as possible to target Jack AT? Everyone who uses an action against him will have an alibi for the mafia kill if they make one (assuming he isn't killed, and he shouldn't be since MBP can "copy-protect" him).
I'm not sure if it's even worth killing anymore if we can flawlessly stop the mafia kill. We should probably stick to just ECrown killing Darvi for tonight though since he should die.
Leafsnail's oneshot, assuming he's telling the truth.I'm not sure if it's even worth killing anymore if we can flawlessly stop the mafia kill. We should probably stick to just ECrown killing Darvi for tonight though since he should die.
Isn't OB's ability a one-shot? I'm not sure how we can keep the mafia kill locked down after tonight.
Alright.
ECrown kills Darvi.
Toaster guards Orangebottle.
Orangebottle one-shots.
Everyone else targets Jack.
Tomorrow, Darvi should be dead. Orange can confirm the actions.
That work for everyone else?
French Taunters - Town:
(Source: Monty Python and the Holy Grail)
You have the role of a bunch of very silly and aggressive French soldiers. You hole up in your giant castle and mock all comer-bys.
(Auto) Giant Castle: It's really quite hard to attack a guy in a giant castle, you know. You are immune to kill actions.
(Night) Taunt Relentlessly: You mock the target relentlessly, demoralizing them and stalling them as they fruitlessly try to reason with you. Target's action is delayed to the next day.
(One-shot) Fetchez La Vache: And thus your target is crushed by a cow. ... it's not a fatal wound, though. The target is unable to vote or take action for the next day and night phase.
Also, ECrown- You lack details on your claim, which automatically makes it suspect. Does it matter if he is lynched or NKed? Did you see what his abilities are after a transform? What's the best way to deal with him?No details on any of that. Just says "dies". WoF is described as devouring everything in its path. Also his wincon is being the last man standing.
Way to completely ignore my claim Urist.
So if you want him dead, why aren't you voting for him?Darvi. Happy now?
Not really. Your claim is pretty weak, and the natural townie reaction to finding a serial killer would be getting rid of it.I want to see what the plan is for getting rid of him without a kill going off from him (or multi-kill, since the WoF is so powerful).
Since you didn't, ECrown, you are lying scum.
So I guess we need explanations from Jack AT and CoF.
I have no idea what happened. From what I can tell from the PM, the guard was successful, but I have no idea why OB is dead now, unless OB is indeed some sort of adv dopp. Time to read back and see who wanted to keep him alive.
Jack: Did anyone not target you that was supposed to do so? Or the other way?
ECrown: Are you able to tell us Darvi's full role? It should have 3 actions.That is his full role. It's an Auto ability. All it says is that when he dies, he revives as the WoF. Beyond that, nothing else.
Here's a really good question, Crown:ECrown: Are you able to tell us Darvi's full role? It should have 3 actions.That is his full role. It's an Auto ability. All it says is that when he dies, he revives as the WoF. Beyond that, nothing else.
Also, vig has about the same consequences as a role-cop. So I figured it's a safe enough claim to make so that I don't end up N1 killed/blocked.How would claiming Vigilante stop you from being killed and blocked?
Because a cop is somebody the scum want to get rid of immediately.Right. So, instead of killing Darvi, like you were supposed to, you DIDN'T kill Darvi. And told us that we have to kill him. Possibly twice. And instead of telling us you could inspect, which would have been more useful, you fakeclaim and waste your one-shot on a dead man.
And I claimed 1-shot vig, not a full vig.
Admittedly, having to kill Darvi twice does fuck things up a bit.Because a cop is somebody the scum want to get rid of immediately.Right. So, instead of killing Darvi, like you were supposed to, you DIDN'T kill Darvi. And told us that we have to kill him. Possibly twice. And instead of telling us you could inspect, which would have been more useful, you fakeclaim and waste your one-shot on a dead man.
And I claimed 1-shot vig, not a full vig.
Wow. That has got to be the WORST plan I have ever heard of. Am I actually awake?
...wait a second.This seems reallllyyyy scummy. Like you were planning to blame Toaster for Orangebottle's "death" when he used his dopplesnatch. There's no way you'd attack Toaster before ECrown after recent events.
Toaster, why the fuck are YOU still alive? You were supposed to protect Orangebottle. You didn't. Your claimed role means you should have died in his place. You're not dead.
Explain yousrself, now.
Actually, I believe ECF. If he was scum, claiming about the fakeclaiming would be stupid. Besides, this way the scum team would be throwing his life in exchange for a possible Darvi lynch. Nah, Darvi it is.You're allowing RiA to pass? And the scum could easily have a rolecop, they might genuinely know that Darvi is an SK. But you know what? ECrown is still scum, even if he's now telling the truth about his role. Again, there was no reason at all for him to lie about his role and his talk of a gambit makes no sense.
Toaster: Could you please give some more idea of the flavour for each of your powers? I find your names, at least, somewhat unfitting for a tiny, rather peaceful separatist party.
I do have to lynch you and your partners to win if that's what you mean, yes.
Also, webadict has been unusually quiet.Yeah, my bad. I'm mostly doing other things. Also thinking. Mostly because the Night should have turned out completely different.
I don't like this remark. I find it scummy.Hmm, maybe you need an actual scummy statement to help calibrate your scum-o-meter.
Well, my gambit worked. So now it's time to reveal my REAL role.See? Absolute scumminess right there. Scum who was hoping to pass off his mafia kill as his one-shot but couldn't. So why aren't you voting him?
I am neither a RBer nor a 1-shot killer. I am in fact a Cop, with a 1-shot Role Cop.
(with your one-shot inspection, which would be the ONLY TOWN INSPECTION ROLE IN THE ENTIRE FUCKING GAME)Go back and read his realclaim again.
You're forgetting that I still have a night ability. Namely, one that's the only remaining inspect in the entire fucking game.That's what I just said. You still wasted your inspect for the night.
And by inspecting Darvi, I was hoping to learn that he was a survivor. Him turning out to be an SK kind of fucked that up. And quite frankly, him reviving as the WoF isn't exactly helpful.Why? The two alternatives are that he was a survivor (in which case we should kill him) or that he was scum pretending to be a survivor (in which case we should kill him). Either way we should kill him and your inspect adds nothing to that.
Do I have to remind you that I still have a regular inspect?GYAH I ACKNOWLEDGED THIS IN MY LAST 2 POSTS AND IT'S IRRELEVANT TO WHAT I'M SAYING.
... And why would we kill a survivor? That's just pointless. Barring any LYLO situations, but that's not exactly a concern at 11 people.There are two responses, so I'll make both.
One kill a night sounds better than any other option right now. Let's have Imik do the kill if a replacement arrives in time.So you tried to hide the fact that you were lying about your role and get someone else to kill Darvi.
Because I didn't really care if Darvi died either way at the time. I wanted to know whether he was really a survivor and killing him would be pointless, or if he was something else (i.e. a SK).ECrown... I am so not in the mood to read anything you post.
Well, my gambit worked. So now it's time to reveal my REAL role.
I am neither a RBer nor a 1-shot killer. I am in fact a Cop, with a 1-shot Role Cop.
I used my 1-shot on Darvi last night, and discovered that he is in fact the Guide Voodoo Doll. However, he is a Serial Killer. When he dies, he turns into the Wall of Flesh, which is Very Bad for us.
Auto - Any night-action that targets me is delayed.
Night action - RB
1-shot - Kill
See? Absolute scumminess right there.Uh, I don't.
Incorrect. If ECF is scum, then he would absolutely need to change his claim.See? Absolute scumminess right there.Uh, I don't.
If ECF was scum, there was no point whatsoever for him to change his claim, knowing that such act will probably get him lynched. The only way that could work is if he indeed inspected Darvi and it turned out he's such a huge danger to scum that they decided to exchange a probability of his lynch (and it won't be even that if ECF flips scum) for the guaranteed lynch of ECF. Well, that or both ECF and Darvi are scum, and Darvi has a very good role. Since the second probability is hilariously unlikely, Darvi's lynch is the way to go.
Except that if ECF was scum, he'd have easily claimed being blocked. With OB dead there's no one to verify the claim (well, unless he just happened to be tracked, though I don't know whether that detects blocks).Nope. He claimed that his auto-ability would delay any action that happened on him for the night. Since this is the first night, there is absolutely no outside factor that could prevent him from performing the kill.
...oh.This is exactly the reason, along with the inability to use two mafiakill abilities at Night, since I'm assuming Orangebottle was mafiakilled in some way.
I totally forgot about his auto.
ECF.
Let's not forget about what we're doing tonight. We still have two claimed one shot kills to test, and scumbag Ottofar (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=98843.msg2910761#msg2910761) to kill. Urist I or Shakerag are both available to kill him.You mean Darvi. We're killing Darvi.
Why not both?Because Darvi should have died a long time ago.
This is exactly the reason, along with the inability to use two mafiakill abilities at Night, since I'm assuming Orangebottle was mafiakilled in some way.Don't forget advanced doppelganger type roles because that looked suspiciously like advanced doppelganger flavour (ie we can't even tell who it was who's been knocked out, and if it's a "role-wiping" advanced doppelganger that would explain why Jack AT's ability suddenly stopped working too. Actually I'm liking that theory - dopps decided that sacrificing ECrown was worth it if it meant they could remove our perfect alibi system and make Orangebottle not get lynched in the morning). "Hide the roleflip" mafia roles have never been particularly popular around here, although I guess Think could be trying something new.
Again, that would be a type of mafiakill. It still requires them to have Orangebottle preform the mafiakill.This is exactly the reason, along with the inability to use two mafiakill abilities at Night, since I'm assuming Orangebottle was mafiakilled in some way.Don't forget advanced doppelganger type roles because that looked suspiciously like advanced doppelganger flavour (ie we can't even tell who it was who's been knocked out, and if it's a "role-wiping" advanced doppelganger that would explain why Jack AT's ability suddenly stopped working too. Actually I'm liking that theory - dopps decided that sacrificing ECrown was worth it if it meant they could remove our perfect alibi system and make Orangebottle not get lynched in the morning). "Hide the roleflip" mafia roles have never been particularly popular around here, although I guess Think could be trying something new.
I agree that Darvi and Ottofar should be killed as soon as possible after ECrown.
Jack: Did you action last Night?
Ottofar: Any specific reason why?I do have to lynch you and your partners to win if that's what you mean, yes.I don't like this remark. I find it scummy.
I targeted Jack AT with a random dead player's night action (obviously it was Powder Miner's). It said I successfully delayed him.
Jack: Did you action last Night?
Nope.
ECF - Well, that was a moronic thing to do. It was fairly well established that Darvi was scheduled for killing, so inspecting him (not to mention using a 1-shot inspect) goes pretty well into pants-on-head retarded land. As has been stated, regardless of what his ability is, if he's an SK, he has to die before town can win.He did NOT do "something moronic". He lied to us at massclaim and was decisively caught in his lie. If you're prepared to let massive, unexplained lies slip by you like this then there's no point in claiming at all.
Having said that, and assuming your second claim is true, you do have the only inspect in the game. I'm just not getting a strong scum vibe from ECF. Yes, he did something totally moronic, but being a moron isn't a scumtell. The ECF bandwagon feels like the scumteam focusing on someone who made a mistake as an easy mislynch target, and getting rid of an ability that can oust them as a bonus.
OB disappearing: The "advanced dopp" theory is an interesting one. I hadn't thought of that. Could it also be a possiblity that OB lied about having an auto ability where his role was hidden on death? I'm pretty sure I saw a game on here once that had a role ability like that. Like a modified Death Miller type of deal. Maybe more of a longshot, but could it even be some ability to fake his own death, like the Ken Kesey Xylbot role?If he were a modified death miller townie he would have claimed. If he were a modified death miller mafia member then whoever killed him would have claimed (unless Darvi is the kind of SK with a kill, in which case ECrown is lying and you should lynch him). Ken Kesey fakes his death then immediately revives so he's not that.
If you're gonna chainsaw, at least do it properly. The action worked, but Powder Miner was not a "see if they have an action cop" (heck, you've seen his role pm).Quote from: LeafsnailI targeted Jack AT with a random dead player's night action (obviously it was Powder Miner's). It said I successfully delayed him.Jack: Did you action last Night?
Nope.
Does that seem right?
Quote from: LeafsnailI targeted Jack AT with a random dead player's night action (obviously it was Powder Miner's). It said I successfully delayed him.Jack: Did you action last Night?
Nope.
Does that seem right?
Okay, busy weekend/day. Catching up on the D2 posts now.What? You can't be serious. What ECrown did was FAR worse than a simple mistake. He lied so badly that there is no way it was a simple mistake. Not at all. Try to explain HOW that could be a mistake.
ECF - Well, that was a moronic thing to do. It was fairly well established that Darvi was scheduled for killing, so inspecting him (not to mention using a 1-shot inspect) goes pretty well into pants-on-head retarded land. As has been stated, regardless of what his ability is, if he's an SK, he has to die before town can win.
Having said that, and assuming your second claim is true, you do have the only inspect in the game. I'm just not getting a strong scum vibe from ECF. Yes, he did something totally moronic, but being a moron isn't a scumtell. The ECF bandwagon feels like the scumteam focusing on someone who made a mistake as an easy mislynch target, and getting rid of an ability that can oust them as a bonus.
Web: Someone needs to shoot Darvi in the night. If he doesn't stay dead, we can lynch him in the day.Who's doing the killing? Which one of them is planning on failing this time? I think Shakerag should do it.
McArathos: Why did you unvoke Jack when he hadn't addressed your accusation of him being a killer?
He's been quiet and lurky
You're defending ECrown. That's good enough for me.He's been quiet and lurky
If by quiet and lurky you mean I have a full time job during the day and then I spend my evenings taking care of the most ungrateful and emotionally/verbally abusive significant other someone could have, then sure.
Also, fuck you.
Ottofar: Do you have any original opinions as to who is scum?
He's been quiet and lurky
If by quiet and lurky you mean I have a full time job during the day and then I spend my evenings taking care of the most ungrateful and emotionally/verbally abusive significant other someone could have, then sure.
Ottofar: Do you have any original opinions as to who is scum?
Leafsnail.
Ottofar:Ottofar: Do you have any original opinions as to who is scum?
Leafsnail.
Is it any wonder I want you taken out?
What the fuck is "wasting a N1 kill" supposed to mean? If you didn't notice, everybody that still has a kill is still alive.Your scumteam now has more nights to take out/ block the other killers.
Also, I think lying at massclaim is a pretty fucking valid strategy for the only fucking cop in the entire game.No. No, it's not.
Shakerag:Quote from: LeafsnailI targeted Jack AT with a random dead player's night action (obviously it was Powder Miner's). It said I successfully delayed him.Jack: Did you action last Night?
Nope.
Does that seem right?
Does it? What are you trying to say here?
What? You can't be serious. What ECrown did was FAR worse than a simple mistake. He lied so badly that there is no way it was a simple mistake. Not at all. Try to explain HOW that could be a mistake.
Because nothing made sense at that time. Jack losing his ability, then ECF admits he lied D1 (and his claim was awful to boot), and Toaster's inability to save OB all added up to one weird ass night. I wanted a chance to look over things today to try and make sense of what's going on before voting any further. I had voted Jack originally because I figured my redirect had a part to play in it, but it soon became clear that N1 was a mess.
You're defending ECrown. That's good enough for me.
Also, I think lying at massclaim is a pretty fucking valid strategy for the only fucking cop in the entire game.
Ottofar: Do you have any original opinions as to who is scum?
Leafsnail.
Leafsnail, you still haven't said anything that doesn't boil down to "you lied".Well... yeah. And I don't see why I should have to. It's 100% decisive evidence against you since you have absolutely no explanation for why you lied, the lie only makes sense if you're mafia and you only changed your story once you were caught in the lie.
Leafsnail, you still haven't said anything that doesn't boil down to "you lied".You majorly lied?
Shakerag: Do you have any idea why you're getting the gut feeling from Shakerag that you are getting?
ECF: Nice job not answering questions. I'd really like to see an answer to Webadict's question here. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=98843.msg2922443#msg2922443)Well, if a kill/block is delayed, a protect's going to be delayed as well.
But you wouldn't be afraid of them, and you wouldn't have a reason to lie right away, because your reason doesn't make sense.ECF: Nice job not answering questions. I'd really like to see an answer to Webadict's question here. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=98843.msg2922443#msg2922443)Well, if a kill/block is delayed, a protect's going to be delayed as well.
WAIT....
I remembered now.
I assisted ECF last night and PM said I did it succesfully. I didn't give it much thought (since I forgot about his auto), but now that I remembered it...
He lied about his auto.
*ominous thunder*
Shakerag.
Anyway, last reminder for everyone: If you aren't ECrown, Jack AT, Toaster or Orangebottle, then target Jack AT. Ok? Don't say you didn't know about the plan tomorrow.It's weird, I posted this specifically so people like Dariush couldn't herp-a-derp their way out of targetting Jack AT in the night. So why did you ignore this, Dariush?
Dariush, why weren't you following the plan?
I missed it. Besides, I'm pretty sure I said on D1 I'm going to assist ECF.Anyway, last reminder for everyone: If you aren't ECrown, Jack AT, Toaster or Orangebottle, then target Jack AT. Ok? Don't say you didn't know about the plan tomorrow.It's weird, I posted this specifically so people like Dariush couldn't herp-a-derp their way out of targetting Jack AT in the night. So why did you ignore this, Dariush?
I missed it. Besides, I'm pretty sure I said on D1 I'm going to assist ECF.
Looks like it was in my mind.I missed it. Besides, I'm pretty sure I said on D1 I'm going to assist ECF.
[citation needed]
You know what wasn't in your mind?Looks like it was in my mind.I missed it. Besides, I'm pretty sure I said on D1 I'm going to assist ECF.
[citation needed]
Dariush: So, is there a reason why you didn't read the last 19 posts (that almost 2 whole pages for the default settings) of day 1? Because our plan, which you apparently missed, happened to be the subject of discussion for those posts. Basically, how did you miss that much? Do you have any idea?Actually I was aware of everything apart from that single sentence which told everyone to target you. My bad.
...Aaaccttuually, why don't we just get as many of us as possible to target Jack AT? Everyone who uses an action against him will have an alibi for the mafia kill if they make one (assuming he isn't killed, and he shouldn't be since MBP can "copy-protect" him).(+ a quote from webadict expressing approval)
[long post detailing plan which mentions Dariush by name]
If we follow this plan, the only people who won't be drunk in the morning should be ECrown, you, Toaster, and Jack AT himself.
No, Leaf is talking about Jack's auto ability, which lets him know who targeted him in the morning. If there's a mafiakill, anyone who did target Jack couldn't have done it. Jack gives everyone an alibi.
ECrown kills Darvi.(plus the time that Jack AT quoted this whole post and expressed approval)
Toaster guards Orangebottle.
Orangebottle one-shots.
Everyone else targets Jack.
...Okay, looks like I did miss a page or two. How exactly does it matter now, after his auto got destroyed?How were you supposed to know his auto was going to be destroyed?
I didn't....Okay, looks like I did miss a page or two. How exactly does it matter now, after his auto got destroyed?How were you supposed to know his auto was going to be destroyed?
Then your excuse makes no sense except on the grounds that it was destroyed, but you should've had no way to know it was going to be destroyed.I didn't....Okay, looks like I did miss a page or two. How exactly does it matter now, after his auto got destroyed?How were you supposed to know his auto was going to be destroyed?
Which is why I made that excuse only after it was destroyed.Then your excuse makes no sense except on the grounds that it was destroyed, but you should've had no way to know it was going to be destroyed.I didn't....Okay, looks like I did miss a page or two. How exactly does it matter now, after his auto got destroyed?How were you supposed to know his auto was going to be destroyed?
Which is why I made that excuse only after it was destroyed.It means you cannot use that as an excuse unless you knew his auto was going to be destroyed.
Soooo... you knowingly used an excuse that made no sense?Exactly why doesn't the fact that I missed the part about everyone targeting Jack make any sense, especially considering that it got destroyed anyway?
What you said doesn't make any sense. If I knew his auto was going to be destroyed, there would be some difference if I claimed it before he claimed that it got destroyed.Which is why I made that excuse only after it was destroyed.It means you cannot use that as an excuse unless you knew his auto was going to be destroyed.
...Okay, looks like I did miss a page or two.You are lying. From your claim, it's clear that you you knew ECrown would be doing the kill, so you must have read the page(s) in which we repeatedly told you and everyone else to target Jack AT (as well as telling ECrown to kill). Why are you lying?
How exactly does it matter now, after his auto got destroyed?Because it means that you ignored a plan that would have prevented the mafia from ever killing. My guess is that you knew you didn't have to target Jack AT so you targetted someone else and cheerfully forgot that you were meant to be targetting someone else because of the plan (and later decided that your claim could be used to bus ECrown, forgetting that it implies preknowledge of Jack AT's action being destroyed).
Yep, continue deceiving yourself with your cretinous theories. Obviously it's infathomable that I missed several posts, but absolutely clear that I had a line of communication with ECF and that he told me to... what? To claim going against the plan? Securing ECF's lynch? After Jack claimed that his ability got destroyed (so if I indeed intentionally ignored the plan there was no need for me whatsoever to claim)? Do you even realize how absolutely idiotic that is?...Okay, looks like I did miss a page or two.You are lying. From your claim, it's clear that you you knew ECrown would be doing the kill, so you must have read the page(s) in which we repeatedly told you and everyone else to target Jack AT (as well as telling ECrown to kill). Why are you lying?
...Well, actually I guess you could be not lying about not reading the end of the day if you somehow got private communication from ECrown. I wonder how that could have happened.How exactly does it matter now, after his auto got destroyed?Because it means that you ignored a plan that would have prevented the mafia from ever killing. My guess is that you knew you didn't have to target Jack AT so you targetted someone else and cheerfully forgot that you were meant to be targetting someone else because of the plan (and later decided that your claim could be used to bus ECrown, forgetting that it implies preknowledge of Jack AT's action being destroyed).
And I just said that yes, you decided this would be a good way to bus ECF when you realised he had zero chance of survival.Oh. Okay, I see, let's say I decided to do that. Only one little question remains.
Because you didn't realize your mistake.And I just said that yes, you decided this would be a good way to bus ECF when you realised he had zero chance of survival.Oh. Okay, I see, let's say I decided to do that. Only one little question remains.
Why the UNHOLY DIABOLICAL FUCK would I do that?
Yeah. You can't claim idiocy defences while also saying that there's no way you'd make a mistake (that you clearly made).To make a mistake described I'd have to forget my own scummates. Go use some Occam's razor on your argument, then come back.
So, this razor would also go the same way in stating that you would not miss 7 posts describing the plan you were supposed to do, while simultaneously seeing what else was happening. You're hypocritical in your defenses.Yeah. You can't claim idiocy defences while also saying that there's no way you'd make a mistake (that you clearly made).To make a mistake described I'd have to forget my own scummates. Go use some Occam's razor on your argument, then come back.
So, do we have a plan for tonight, since Jack's ability doesn't work?We could use Ottofar's ability.
Kill Darvi. Really I think we should kill Ottofar too - that means tomorrow night we'd be able to use MBP's ability to completely lock down the mafia kill. Other than that we should be able to create some kind of elaborate alibi web using roleblocks, redirects and stuff.
Let's see... alibi plan:
Shakerag: Kills Darvi. With Darvi dead in the morning he'd have an alibi.
Darvi: Dies. Roleflips.
ECrown: Dies. Roleflips.
Toaster: Guards someone. Is redirected to person X.
Dariush: Uses the signal flare. Not sure about target, someone like Toaster.
Ottofar: Uses super redirect on me, Toaster, Jack AT and webadict. Redirects all of them to the same "person X". If any of the four listed are mafia trying to perform the kill it will be blocked by the others of us. Dies. If he's town, he's locked down the mafia kill. If he's scum, he dies. Great either way.
Urist Imi: Kills Ottofar. Has an alibi from Ottofar dying.
Leafsnail: Attempts to use Orangebottle's one shot. Is redirected.
Jack AT: Protect someone or other, is redirected.
Webadict: Is redirected.
MBP: Copies Dariush for an alibi.
That would have scum in a pretty nasty lock, and we'd have MBP's ability tomorrow to completely stop the kill dead.
Kill Darvi. Really I think we should kill Ottofar too - that means tomorrow night we'd be able to use MBP's ability to completely lock down the mafia kill. Other than that we should be able to create some kind of elaborate alibi web using roleblocks, redirects and stuff.This works for me. Is the person "X" a mystery, or can we force Ottofar to choose a specific person? Just in case Ottofar is scum. I'd volunteer, but my auto might fail. Honestly, I think we should choose Toaster or Jack to be redirected to.
Let's see... alibi plan:
Shakerag: Kills Darvi. With Darvi dead in the morning he'd have an alibi.
Darvi: Dies. Roleflips.
ECrown: Dies. Roleflips.
Toaster: Guards someone. Is redirected to person X.
Dariush: Uses the signal flare. Not sure about target, someone like Toaster.
Ottofar: Uses super redirect on me, Toaster, Jack AT and webadict. Redirects all of them to the same "person X". If any of the four listed are mafia trying to perform the kill it will be blocked by the others of us. Dies. If he's town, he's locked down the mafia kill. If he's scum, he dies. Great either way.
Urist Imi: Kills Ottofar. Has an alibi from Ottofar dying.
Leafsnail: Attempts to use Orangebottle's one shot. Is redirected.
Jack AT: Protect someone or other, is redirected.
Webadict: Is redirected.
MBP: Copies Dariush for an alibi.
That would have scum in a pretty nasty lock, and we'd have MBP's ability tomorrow to completely stop the kill dead.
I don't think it matters who the person being targetted by the kills and protects is. Except it shouldn't be the people slated to die or anyone who protects would/ could fail against. If Ottofar is scum he could just ignore this plan anyway, but I wouldn't mind that too much since he's dying.I chose those two because they have protection roles, so one of them would be protected.
The only thing that worries me is that the whole point of the rolename I sent in is to create problems based on "everyone has an alibi", but nevermind.
Except that would be stupid.I don't think it matters who the person being targetted by the kills and protects is. Except it shouldn't be the people slated to die or anyone who protects would/ could fail against. If Ottofar is scum he could just ignore this plan anyway, but I wouldn't mind that too much since he's dying.I chose those two because they have protection roles, so one of them would be protected.
The only thing that worries me is that the whole point of the rolename I sent in is to create problems based on "everyone has an alibi", but nevermind.
Dariush/NUKE Slashfic - Town:
(Source: Some Sick Bastard's Imagination)
You have the role of... oh god, what? Do I seriously have to write about this? I quit.
(Auto) Who Wrote This: This is the worst thing I've ever read and oh my god I can't look away. Whoever kills you loses their vote for the next day.
(Night) Keen Authorial Instinct: Your 'devotion' to writing people in-character has given you a keen insight into people. You can inspect people at night and determine if they are town or anti-town.
(One-shot) Open For Review: You open up the target's role PM for inspection. You learn the exact contents of their role PM.
I can confirm I was flared. The message was essentially to protect Dariush since he'll have something to tell us later.That's not what his one-shot was supposed to be.
Shakerag: Why is Darvi alive?
Dariush: What exactly is it you have to tell us? And why did you lie about your ability? Because from your claim you said the ability would tell someone you're town. Not that they needed to protect you.Actually, I didn't know I could send an accompanying message until Think told me I could (after I sent a bare-bones 'I want to flare Toaster'), in addition to telling the target I'm town. I don't have anything interesting to tell, I just wanted to see whether Toaster would reveal what I said or hide it and try to get rid of me.
I suppose deaths and revives are not announced then.
Dariush: It didn't actually say you were town, though.Wait what? I'm pretty sure my ability description says I'm 'confirmed as town to the target'. Did you get anything from MBP, who was supposed to mirror my action?
Dariush: It didn't actually say you were town, though.Wait what? I'm pretty sure my ability description says I'm 'confirmed as town to the target'. Did you get anything from MBP, who was supposed to mirror my action?
Orangebottle's One-Shot worked exactly as he claimed it did while he was alive.Why is my action not on there?
The actions that occured last night (need to go, can't analyse right now):
Someone tried to kill me
Someone messaged Toaster
Someone protected me
Someone redirected webadict, Jack, me and Toaster to me
Someone protected me
Someone used "karma" on Darvi
So one of webadict, Jack and Toaster used a kill last night, is the message I'm getting. Pretty sure none of you guys were meant to?
MBP, actually, should be lynched. Darvi isn't a threat right now.
And Ottofar: who did you redirect?
Shakerag, where's your kill attempt on Darvi?Why is there only one kill?
MBP, actually, should be lynched. Darvi isn't a threat right now.
Orangebottle's One-Shot worked exactly as he claimed it did while he was alive.
The actions that occured last night (need to go, can't analyse right now):
Someone tried to kill me
Someone messaged Toaster
Someone protected me
Someone redirected webadict, Jack, me and Toaster to me
Someone protected me
Someone used "karma" on Darvi
So one of webadict, Jack and Toaster used a kill last night, is the message I'm getting. Pretty sure none of you guys were meant to?
What is MBP doing using his action on Darvi?
-snip-
Shakerag, where's your kill attempt on Darvi?
Waitaminute. You were all balls to the wall about getting rid of Darvi yesterday. Why isn't he a threat right now?Because Crown was Town. Therefore, Darvi can't do anything until he's killed, right?
Looking at MBP's ability, I would almost think Dariush would get the message. But since I don't see Dariush getting actioned and MBP doesn't appear to have been roleblocked ... Explanation, MBP. You need one.In #mafia, "karma" means "Use the target's action on them". So basically exactly what MBP claimed. He used it on a completely useless person, but he would seem to have an alibi for trying to murder me last night.
Also, who has an ability named "karma"? Because I can't find anyone claiming it. People who didn't post ability names during the massclaim should do so now.
Secondly, as I stated before, I got flavor back that looked like it went through. Either something totally fucked up is going on at night, or Leafsnail isn't telling the truth. And given that Leafsnail has been a major organizer of all of these night action plans (that somehow seem to end up with a lot of holes in them), as scum he'd be in a great position to influence who does what so as to hide his scumpartners' actions.Well firstly you seem to have forgotten you claimed a role with 50% chance of failed night actions against them. Secondly that night went fine - noone died. Free lynch, and tonight MBP can use his super redirect for a similar effect. And there's even been a suspicious kill attempt which a fair few people have alibis for.
So, yeah, thanks for your service Leafsnail, but we need to relieve you from duty before you screw us over any more.
Maybe it is, wuba dear, and you've just bullied people away from forcing you to claim it the whole game.The actions that occured last night (need to go, can't analyse right now):Why is my action not on there?
Someone tried to kill me
[...]
So one of webadict, Jack and Toaster used a kill last night, is the message I'm getting. Pretty sure none of you guys were meant to?
The actions that occured last night (need to go, can't analyse right now):
Someone tried to kill me[...]
I think the clearest explanation is that Shakerag targeted Leafsnail instead of me.Shakerag: Why is Darvi alive?Fuck if I know, man. From my end it looked like the kill went through on Darvi.
First of all, that whole D1 massclaim thing was... interesting. Certainly changed the flow of the entire game, though hasn't been too successful at actually winning it, has it? I see two (maybe three) townie corpses on the floor, and no scum ones. So not really breaking the game, is it? However, I will agree with a very early comment by Leafsnail (paraphrasing): "it's worth trying once, and and a game where role names can be confirmed is as good a chance as any."To be fair, a lot of the problems with this game came from ECrown being unbelievably stupid and having a great role. If ECrown had claimed truthfully we'd be godstomping this game by now (we have 2 docs and 2 roleblock prevents, for chrissake). We did prevent the kill last night and have some cool information though which is nice.
Alright, I'm here after work.Well, if that's the case, I guess you can kill someone tonight instead. Unvote for now. But... for 4 whole days? Reaaally? Don't mods usually send reminder PMs anyway? Actually: Think - Do you send reminder pms to people who don't action?
To put it bluntly, I forgot about this game during my harried weekend and getting caught up in the other mafia games I'm involved in. I forgot to send in my night action.
It's a lame excuse, but the truth. I'm sorry for it.
Well, if that's the case, I guess you can kill someone tonight instead. Unvote for now. But... for 4 whole days? Reaaally?Alternate explanation: Ottofar and Urist A are scumbuddies, which is why he bought into your plan immediately (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=98843.msg2934853#msg2934853) after it was proposed. It was a golden opportunity to "forget" to off his scumbuddy.
So the two possibilities between Shakerag and Bookthras are:If the first possibility had happened, wouldn't you have seen it in your list of who actioned on whom? As it is, assuming your list is trustworthy, someone did try to kill you, and Shakerag did admit to using his kill. No other attempted kills were recorded, yes?
1. Shakerag killed Bookthras. Bookthras is therefore now a serial killer and is thus obviously lying about being killed last night.
2. Shakerag tried to kill me for some reason, knowing that Darvi's survival would screw him over.
To be honest I'm kindof seeing the first possibility as more likely right now.
Day ends Thursday, and I did not send reminder PMs. Votecount in 2 hours when my schedule clears.
... Well congratulations guys. You somehow broke the LurkerTracker.
Votecount coming as soon as I figure out how you fuckers did that.
Shakerag [3]- Toaster, Jack A T, Bookthras
Bookthras [3]- Dariush, Shakerag, Leafsnail
It depends, honestly. Did you have a context in mind?
In #mafia, "karma" means "Use the target's action on them". So basically exactly what MBP claimed. He used it on a completely useless person, but he would seem to have an alibi for trying to murder me last night.
Alright, I'm here after work.
To put it bluntly, I forgot about this game during my harried weekend and getting caught up in the other mafia games I'm involved in. I forgot to send in my night action.
It's a lame excuse, but the truth. I'm sorry for it.
I think the clearest explanation is that Shakerag targeted Leafsnail instead of me.
Seriously, people, this is bullshit. Bookthras is a confirmed SK, McArathos "forgot" to send in his action, and MBP is both lurking like a boss and didn't follow the plan last night. But I'm getting voted for doing what I was told to do.It's so awesome when someone expresses my thoughts for me, saves me the trouble of actually typing.
Day extended to Monday!Monday?? Yawn. Much rather if we could get it wrapped up by Friday instead of lurking the weekend away, and then locking for half a week for night. *sigh* Whatever.
But I like lynching people! Why can't we do more of that?
Bookthras: I know what Darvi and ECF have said, but I want to hear it from you: What is your alignment? Do you turn into a SK on death? Have you done so and not visibly flipped?Currently, survivor. Yes. No.
If you convince 4 other people that Monday is too far away, then you can request a limited extension
That's a lie. You're an SK right now. ECrown said so in his claim.Bookthras: I know what Darvi and ECF have said, but I want to hear it from you: What is your alignment? Do you turn into a SK on death? Have you done so and not visibly flipped?Currently, survivor. Yes. No.
Guess they forgot the role which I claimed would leave me immune to kills last night anyway.
I would be happy to be a replacement. :)To give you time to catch up, and hopefully one more replacement to jump in, I withdraw my earlier "limited extension" thing, and place a brand new extension from Monday so it can be extended to Wednesday. The game is not as complex as it seems, and the replacements should be able to catch up rather painlessly. But a summary:
For some reason I misremembered ECrown's inspection result (I thought it was "survivor who becomes SK when lynched"). Unvote. Bookthras.
That's a lie. You're an SK right now. ECrown said so in his claim.Bookthras: I know what Darvi and ECF have said, but I want to hear it from you: What is your alignment? Do you turn into a SK on death? Have you done so and not visibly flipped?Currently, survivor. Yes. No.
I used my 1-shot on Darvi last night, and discovered that he is in fact the Guide Voodoo Doll. However, he is a Serial Killer. When he dies, he turns into the Wall of Flesh, which is Very Bad for us.
No details on any of that. Just says "dies". WoF is described as devouring everything in its path. Also his wincon is being the last man standing.
That is his full role. It's an Auto ability. All it says is that when he dies, he revives as the WoF. Beyond that, nothing else.
Orangebottle's One-Shot worked exactly as he claimed it did while he was alive.
The actions that occured last night (need to go, can't analyse right now):
Someone tried to kill me
Someone messaged Toaster
Someone protected me
Someone redirected webadict, Jack, me and Toaster to me
Someone protected me
Someone used "karma" on Darvi
Toaster - Heroic Guard, Gets a number of killers once, RB immune.
I did redirect last night, and I did redirect what LS claimed.You can keep saying that, but there's no way to verify that.
I blocked Jack N1.
Also, Mod: Please prod MBP.
I have provided an explanation - the scum have a protection bypassing kill, and thus thought I'd be a fine target to take out. But forgot that I was immune to kills anyway due to Powder Miner's role.Orangebottle's One-Shot worked exactly as he claimed it did while he was alive.
The actions that occured last night (need to go, can't analyse right now):
Someone tried to kill me
Someone messaged Toaster
Someone protected me
Someone redirected webadict, Jack, me and Toaster to me
Someone protected me
Someone used "karma" on Darvi
The first one is impossible. No one in their right mind would try to kill Leafsnail. It likely covers up a failed kill on me. He was being double protected.
Which is where my next point comes in:...Huh? Guards have a "protect" action too (the action names being generic). I don't know what you mean about being "low down on the list" since there's absolutely nothing to indicate these actions follow any kind of order.QuoteToaster - Heroic Guard, Gets a number of killers once, RB immune.
Toaster is a guard. You should have gotten a guard. There is no second doctor. It also should've been right next to the other protect. It would never have been so low on the list.
The last is MBP's action. That doesn't make any sense at all. I thought about it, and the only thing I can determine is that MBP was actually killing someone last Night. Urist probably was away, but MBP has no excuse. Leafsnail, however, made him one.I didn't "make him an excuse". His action last night was indeed bizarre, and I claimed that bizarre action.
The third and a half is my ability, which is listed there. While technically there's a half-chance that an ability fails on me, I'm still going to use that half a chance against you....Huh. This is... what.
I also assume that Leafsnail was attempting to frame me with his last Night's claim. It doesn't make sense to accuse Jack A T and Toaster, since BOTH of their abilities are supposed to be listed there. So, why even bring that up? He also forgets about the other people that are free to target whoever, and basically points a giant finger at me. It doesn't make any amount of sense.I mentioned Jack AT and Toaster at first since I was in a hurry and couldn't remember which one of you three wasn't a guard. I later realised that you, Shakerag and Urist M are the only three people who had the opportunity to kill me last night. Hence why I switched before realising that Bookthras is an SK anyway (no, I'm not buying that ECrown somehow misread your clearly stated alignment).
ECrown is right: the Wall of Flesh is a Serial Killer, and I will become it if I die. I, however, am not it yet, I am an inanimate object (the voodoo doll), which being inanimate means I have no actions, certainly no kills to be serial about, nor driving passions, interest in any cake, or in anything other than to be left alone to nurse my hangover and for once not be destroyed until the end of the game. If the doll is dipped in lava (dies), the Wall of Flesh will be awakened, which will want to do some devouring, and will be the last one standing.You're saying that ECrown found out that Darvi is a SK as Wall of Flesh, yet somehow was confused about your current status as Survivor?
I have provided an explanation - the scum have a protection bypassing kill, and thus thought I'd be a fine target to take out. But forgot that I was immune to kills anyway due to Powder Miner's role.I'm not going to go with WIFOM. That is really bad WIFOM. And the lying thing doesn't make sense.
The other alternatives are a) WIFOM or b) they had no better option anyway since they were lying about their role and were being redirected to me.
...Huh? Guards have a "protect" action too (the action names being generic). I don't know what you mean about being "low down on the list" since there's absolutely nothing to indicate these actions follow any kind of order.I play where Guards have a "guard" ability. I don't assume it's the same thing, but I guess I can't outguess Think.
I didn't "make him an excuse". His action last night was indeed bizarre, and I claimed that bizarre action.But, MBP still didn't do what he was supposed to. He doesn't have the message to prove his action, which doesn't make much sense at all.
...I mean, I'm actually reaaaally confused on this point. I came up with the plan that would screw a fake MBP over in the night. There was nothing to indicate that anyone else would think of it. And yet I made the plan and also decided to lie to cover MBP even though that'd mean I'd be dragged down with him when he's inevitably lynched.
...Huh. This is... what.I dunno. I'm too tired to think about it really. I guess I'm thinking too much about probabilities.
I mentioned Jack AT and Toaster at first since I was in a hurry and couldn't remember which one of you three wasn't a guard. I later realised that you, Shakerag and Urist M are the only three people who had the opportunity to kill me last night. Hence why I switched before realising that Bookthras is an SK anyway (no, I'm not buying that ECrown somehow misread your clearly stated alignment).It still seems like you defaulted to me rather too fast.
ECrown is right: the Wall of Flesh is a Serial Killer, and I will become it if I die. I, however, am not it yet, I am an inanimate object (the voodoo doll), which being inanimate means I have no actions, certainly no kills to be serial about, nor driving passions, interest in any cake, or in anything other than to be left alone to nurse my hangover and for once not be destroyed until the end of the game. If the doll is dipped in lava (dies), the Wall of Flesh will be awakened, which will want to do some devouring, and will be the last one standing.You're saying that ECrown found out that Darvi is a SK as Wall of Flesh, yet somehow was confused about your current status as Survivor?
SOUNDS TOTALLY REASONABLE TO ME!
Web: That plan seems awfully far fetched. At what point would Leafsnail have come up with it? He'd have to know OB's one-shot to be able to fakeclaim it with his own fake one-shot. Plus, I couldn't have blocked me N1- I'm RB immune.
Are you saying the scumteam is Leaf, Otto, and MBP? Where's your evidence on the latter two that's not just extrapolation from Leafsnail?
webadict Why have you seemed so oddly suspicious this whole time? You went to defend Shakerag, I agree he is probable not scum(Really just less scummy.). You're seeming to make me suspicious, but thats just my feeling. Not to mention, you're making some pretty big accusations.There's something going on, since we have a no flip on Orangebottle, and two amnesias. That doesn't just happen, especially with a massclaim. I'm looking at whose role has to be a lie.
Web: Don't you ignore me too.Honestly, I'm only working under the assumption that Leafsnail is scum. With that as an assumption it's down to either you, Ottofar, or MBP as his scumbuddies. Of course, I thought of Jack A T, but I don't really believe he would go with the exploded Auto as a defense, as that's just really stupid, and both your and Shakerag's amnesia are also stupid. That's why it's likely Leafsnail, Ottofar, and MBP.Web: That plan seems awfully far fetched. At what point would Leafsnail have come up with it? He'd have to know OB's one-shot to be able to fakeclaim it with his own fake one-shot. Plus, I couldn't have blocked me N1- I'm RB immune.
Are you saying the scumteam is Leaf, Otto, and MBP? Where's your evidence on the latter two that's not just extrapolation from Leafsnail?
Honestly, I'm only working under the assumption that Leafsnail is scum. With that as an assumption it's down to either you, Ottofar, or MBP as his scumbuddies.Assumptions can get you killed you know. ;) On the other hand, it can win you games. Now evidence is necessary, not assumptions. Though the Leafsnail theory could be true. Something doesn't add up, though.
Leafsnail You have got some explaining to do.One thing first: can you claim?
Toaster Get me some toast. :D
webadict Though you make Leafsnail very suspicious, you're not leaving my sight for a while, because if Leafsnail ISN'T mafia my valid guess is that you are.QuoteHonestly, I'm only working under the assumption that Leafsnail is scum. With that as an assumption it's down to either you, Ottofar, or MBP as his scumbuddies.Assumptions can get you killed you know. ;) On the other hand, it can win you games. Now evidence is necessary, not assumptions. Though the Leafsnail theory could be true. Something doesn't add up, though.
Leafsnail You have got some explaining to do.One thing first: can you claim?
Toaster Get me some toast. :D
webadict Though you make Leafsnail very suspicious, you're not leaving my sight for a while, because if Leafsnail ISN'T mafia my valid guess is that you are.QuoteHonestly, I'm only working under the assumption that Leafsnail is scum. With that as an assumption it's down to either you, Ottofar, or MBP as his scumbuddies.Assumptions can get you killed you know. ;) On the other hand, it can win you games. Now evidence is necessary, not assumptions. Though the Leafsnail theory could be true. Something doesn't add up, though.
WIFOM. That is really bad WIFOM. And the lying thing doesn't make sense.WIFOM always makes sense as long as you can turn it into a lynch on a townie the next day. And the lying thing makes more sense if you were the one doing the killing, although I feel Shakerag's more likely at the moment.
I play where Guards have a "guard" ability. I don't assume it's the same thing, but I guess I can't outguess Think.Yep.
But, MBP still didn't do what he was supposed to. He doesn't have the message to prove his action, which doesn't make much sense at all.He didn't do what he was supposed to. That may make him scum who thought I would be too dead to out him afterwards. But he didn't try to kill me and he hasn't been inspected as an SK so he's not at the top of my list at the moment.
It still seems like you defaulted to me rather too fast.I'm not sure what you mean by "defaulted to you". I never voted you - I went for Urist M for having a missing action with no explanation and later Shakerag for having his claimed action missing. You are one of three possible suspects - one of you three must be scum. You were the least bad since there's a possible reason your action didn't come up and there wasn't a kill you were meant to be doing that didn't happen.
Leafsnail I'm interested to WHY you lied to protect MBP exactly?I didn't. I reported the exact list which I received last night. MBP did something weird. Maybe because he's scum and thought the kill on me would go through (hence why he made the weird action).
Leafsnail You have got some explaining to do.What explaining? Webadict's come up with a semi-plausible version of events (although it would have me risking my ass for the sake of a player who's disappeared without trace and is about to be modkilled). It's possible, sure, but there's no actual evidence for it being true for me to answer (other than "MBP did something weird" and that's more of an argument for him being scum).
Doesn't matter. I still need you to claim.Leafsnail You have got some explaining to do.One thing first: can you claim?
Toaster Get me some toast. :D
webadict Though you make Leafsnail very suspicious, you're not leaving my sight for a while, because if Leafsnail ISN'T mafia my valid guess is that you are.QuoteHonestly, I'm only working under the assumption that Leafsnail is scum. With that as an assumption it's down to either you, Ottofar, or MBP as his scumbuddies.Assumptions can get you killed you know. ;) On the other hand, it can win you games. Now evidence is necessary, not assumptions. Though the Leafsnail theory could be true. Something doesn't add up, though.
Don't you already know? ;)
tcidabew - Town:
(Source: Bay 12 Mafia Forums)
You have the role of tcidabew, who is absolutely not webadict in any way, shape, or form.
(Auto) Don't Kill tcidabew Ever: When you are killed, whoever killed you is announced the next day.
(Night) Reverse Possesion: You are possessed by your target, and copy any action they perform on them.
(One-shot) Buw Abuw Abuw: Everyone targeting you is redirected to your target.
Orangebottle's One-Shot worked exactly as he claimed it did while he was alive.That is impossible with what I did. Since I see only 2 players(Toaster and me) with the ability to protect. I did nothing day 1 and protected Web day 2. Explain once more please.
The actions that occured last night (need to go, can't analyse right now):
Someone tried to kill me
Someone messaged Toaster
Someone protected me
Someone redirected webadict, Jack, me and Toaster to me
Someone protected me
Someone used "karma" on Darvi
So one of webadict, Jack and Toaster used a kill last night, is the message I'm getting. Pretty sure none of you guys were meant to?
Could someone catch me up on the most recent happens while I sift through the thread?
That is impossible with what I did. Since I see only 2 players(Toaster and me) with the ability to protect. I did nothing day 1 and protected Web day 2. Explain once more please.Uh... what I said exactly matches what you just claimed. You tried to protect webadict and were redirected by Ottofar to me.
Web, agreeing with your theory this is what i did...So you asked Think to send you your night message for night 1, and you didn't have one? Nothing happened to you night 1?
Night 1- NOTHING
Night 2- Protected webadict.
Your theory goes with my claim pretty well, you know.
Bookthras: Is your current wincon explicitly stated?It's not explicitly stated as in "(Survivor)", as I said before. It is described in flavour. When I joined I had to exchange a few clarification PM's with Think to make sure I understood the role, and its being ambiguous is why ECrown misinterpreted it. He saw a "(Serial Killer)" in there, and assumed that was my overall role, but it's attached to the Wall of Flesh auto, as he himself mentioned.
Bookthras: Ambiguous flavor or not, I still think it would be a little difficult to not be able to tell the difference between a survivor and an SK. On one hand, if you really were a survivor right now, I have difficulty understanding why you would vote yourself and give up your revive.The main reason is curiosity. At the time, the game seemed stalled, and I would find it disappointing if we never saw the Wall of Flesh appear; exactly what it does is not stated, but it's implied that it'd be awesome, so I don't mind if it makes an appearance. But since I can't off myself, it's entirely up to you.
Web, agreeing with your theory this is what i did...Actually, Leaf's claim goes well for you. You were redirected before you protected Leafsnail.
Night 1- NOTHING
Night 2- Protected webadict.
Your theory goes with my claim pretty well, you know.
GAH YOU ARE FUCKING KIDDING MEI don't think killing Bookthras just yet will let us win.
BOOK IS A FUCKING CONFIRMED SK
FUCKING OPPOSE EXTEND
GAH YOU ARE FUCKING KIDDING MEI don't think killing Bookthras just yet will let us win.
BOOK IS A FUCKING CONFIRMED SK
FUCKING OPPOSE EXTEND
Web, agreeing with your theory this is what i did...Actually, Leaf's claim goes well for you. You were redirected before you protected Leafsnail.
Night 1- NOTHING
Night 2- Protected webadict.
Your theory goes with my claim pretty well, you know.
I'm for an Extend too. It's better to figure out the entire scum team than just one. They have to be linked too, because Jack A T lost his ability on the first Night, so it's got to be at least one of those that were targeting him, or removing his Auto would be useless.
Why don't we go with yesterday's plan of havingUrist McANative kill Book in the night and just lynch him tomorrow if he revives? That way he's gone either way.
Also, seriously? Let's last night action claim, please.
Actually, Leaf's claim goes well for you. You were redirected before you protected Leafsnail.Do you actually have any case against me at all now that MBP has flipped town? Except that you think it's unlikely the scum would try to kill me (and you've acknowledged another possibility there) you've gone back on or been proved wrong on every argument you had against me.
I assume Leafsnail is scum because hs role seems like the obvious one that can destroy Auto abilities.Huh? No really, huh? What about my role makes it seem like it could destroy auto-abilities? Is it really inconceivable that any of the other roles in the game could do that?
Why don't we go with yesterday's plan of havingUrist McANative kill Book in the night and just lynch him tomorrow if he revives? That way he's gone either way.
Also, seriously? Let's last night action claim, please.
Was it told that my kill is a one-shot? Also, I apparently haven't performed any night actions all game.
Native: I don't know. What does your role PM say?
Someone Else's Role - Town:
(Source: Depends)
You have someone else's role. Not sure which one at the moment - what other roles are there, anyways? Eh, you'll find out as the game goes on.
(Auto) Someone Else's Auto-ability: At the beginning of each day, you have a random auto ability chosen from the people who are currently dead.
(Night) Someone Else's Night Action: When you perform a night action, a random one is chosen from the people who are currently dead.
(One-shot) Someone Else's One-shot: You may perform the one-shot ability of anyone who is dead at the time of the one-shot being used.
The Man Who Arranges The Blocks - Town
(Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWTFG3J1CP8)
You have the role of The Man Who Arranges the Blocks, a glorious worker in the Soviet Union, who drops blocks down and makes walls that constantly collapse.
(Auto) Next Block: You can see what's coming down the pipeline. You know what actions were performed on you during the night.
(Night) Z Block: You block off a perfectly good row with a dumb block. The target is blocked (get it?).
(One-shot) Arranging the Blocks: Pick up to 4 targets. You can redirect all targets to other players.
Shakerag: assisted.
Bookthras: STILL NOT DEAD FOR SOME FUCKING REASON
Woohoo! I'm not dead! Why am I not dead? I thought I'd be dead. I think you guys are just afraid of the infinite pain the Wall of Flesh would unleash unto you.I reset penngo.
A night action claim would be nice. In the mean time, I vote webadict, for leading the lynch on Leafsnail, who flipped town, and for muddying the issue.
So, how many townie corpses on the floor are needed before people admit the "D1 Mass Claim" thing does not help town? I ask everyone yet again: Who is scum and why? You've not managed to find even one of them!
So, how many townie corpses on the floor are needed before people admit the "D1 Mass Claim" thing does not help town?Yeah, probably not. Might work better in a game where roles are static, and not a game like a BYOR.
Now that's interesting, Dariush. Native doesn't kill Book for whatever reason, and you immediately vote Book without even addressing a question to Native. Trying to distract from your scumbuddy not doing what he was supposed to do?We may deal with Native, whatever his aligment is, later. We have a CONFIRMED SK. About seeing whom dead only I seem to care.
No, not necessarily. It just needs a better setting where it is harder to lie about roles. Like where roles are known information.So, how many townie corpses on the floor are needed before people admit the "D1 Mass Claim" thing does not help town?Yeah, probably not. Might work better in a game where roles are static, and not a game like a BYOR.
Was this a relply to my question about the mass claim? Until we have more data to go on, it seems like a worthy discussion topic.
Regardless of my role, I hereby state: The D1 Mass Claim idea is stupid, and hurts town, mostly because it causes scumhunting to be ignored. People will spend their days bullying people into claiming roles and actions, and coming up with crazy plans, and they will never pan out. Next day, invariably, it'll turn out that someone lied (oh noes! someone lied? in mafia?!), regardless of alignment, and the scum have their scumchat to coordinate. Result: No scumhunting. Lots of dead townies. Stupid Strategy.
D1 Mass Claim? After this game, whoever proposes it is either scum or stupid (or both).
Now that's interesting, Dariush. Native doesn't kill Book for whatever reason, and you immediately vote Book without even addressing a question to Native. Trying to distract from your scumbuddy not doing what he was supposed to do?
Why don't we go with yesterday's plan of havingUrist McANative kill Book in the night and just lynch him tomorrow if he revives? That way he's gone either way.
Also, seriously? Let's last night action claim, please.
Was it told that my kill is a one-shot? Also, I apparently haven't performed any night actions all game.
Native:Killing Bookthras is actually a pretty terrible idea.Why don't we go with yesterday's plan of havingUrist McANative kill Book in the night and just lynch him tomorrow if he revives? That way he's gone either way.
Also, seriously? Let's last night action claim, please.
Was it told that my kill is a one-shot? Also, I apparently haven't performed any night actions all game.
You saw me suggest it, at least. Book, Dariush, and Shakerag all saw it and thought it was going to happen.
Native:Why don't we go with yesterday's plan of havingUrist McANative kill Book in the night and just lynch him tomorrow if he revives? That way he's gone either way.
Also, seriously? Let's last night action claim, please.
Was it told that my kill is a one-shot? Also, I apparently haven't performed any night actions all game.
You saw me suggest it, at least. Book, Dariush, and Shakerag all saw it and thought it was going to happen.
Regardless, I don't see a real reason to kill Bookthras while he's a survivor.He can only be a survivor if Shakerag lied about killing him. Except there's no reason for Shakerag to lie. Sure, we may lynch him and find out the truth, but that'll leave Book alive for one more day if Shakerag was telling the truth and we'll lose a townie. However, if we lynch Book right now, two things may happen: either he resurrects, we get a single night with SK alive, lynch him the next day and Shakerag the day after that, OR he dies and Shakerag becomes a confirmed town, or at least a non-liar. Do I really need to point out why lynching Book is by far the best course we can possible take?
Both of those outcomes are losses or near-losses for the Town. So, why would we do that?Regardless, I don't see a real reason to kill Bookthras while he's a survivor.He can only be a survivor if Shakerag lied about killing him. Except there's no reason for Shakerag to lie. Sure, we may lynch him and find out the truth, but that'll leave Book alive for one more day if Shakerag was telling the truth and we'll lose a townie. However, if we lynch Book right now, two things may happen: either he resurrects, we get a single night with SK alive, lynch him the next day and Shakerag the day after that, OR he dies and Shakerag becomes a confirmed town, or at least a non-liar. Do I really need to point out why lynching Book is by far the best course we can possible take?
Because if we don't get any of them and he turns out to have been killed by Shakerag back then, we'll have an SK among us, who has a bunch of nasty powers if ECF's flavor turns out to be more than flavor.Both of those outcomes are losses or near-losses for the Town. So, why would we do that?Regardless, I don't see a real reason to kill Bookthras while he's a survivor.He can only be a survivor if Shakerag lied about killing him. Except there's no reason for Shakerag to lie. Sure, we may lynch him and find out the truth, but that'll leave Book alive for one more day if Shakerag was telling the truth and we'll lose a townie. However, if we lynch Book right now, two things may happen: either he resurrects, we get a single night with SK alive, lynch him the next day and Shakerag the day after that, OR he dies and Shakerag becomes a confirmed town, or at least a non-liar. Do I really need to point out why lynching Book is by far the best course we can possible take?
But if we kill him, then we go down to 6 people. And since there are three scum, we lose. There is no winning with that logic, Dariush. Even if he wasn't killed, you will then have an actual sk killing people with the mafia.Because if we don't get any of them and he turns out to have been killed by Shakerag back then, we'll have an SK among us, who has a bunch of nasty powers if ECF's flavor turns out to be more than flavor.Both of those outcomes are losses or near-losses for the Town. So, why would we do that?Regardless, I don't see a real reason to kill Bookthras while he's a survivor.He can only be a survivor if Shakerag lied about killing him. Except there's no reason for Shakerag to lie. Sure, we may lynch him and find out the truth, but that'll leave Book alive for one more day if Shakerag was telling the truth and we'll lose a townie. However, if we lynch Book right now, two things may happen: either he resurrects, we get a single night with SK alive, lynch him the next day and Shakerag the day after that, OR he dies and Shakerag becomes a confirmed town, or at least a non-liar. Do I really need to point out why lynching Book is by far the best course we can possible take?
hypocrisy.
If you thought Native's explanation as to why he didn't kill Book is so important, why didn't you ask him for it yourself?hypocrisy.[citation needed]
Bookthras: STILL NOT DEAD FOR SOME FUCKING REASON
Dariush: Because I'd rather question you.
Dariush:I referred to him not getting lynched the previous day and somebody (no one in particular) not killing him during the night.Bookthras: STILL NOT DEAD FOR SOME FUCKING REASONI'm talking about this.
Also, I already answered the second question.That's not an aswer, that's a deflection.Dariush: Because I'd rather question you.
I reset penngo.
Native: Do you really believe Book is a survivor right now?
He lost his Auto ability.I reset penngo.
Wait, why? What was there to reset?
Also, that reminds me. Book, if you're still a survivor (and thus weren't killed), why didn't you attack Shakerag for lying about killing you?
Yes, lynching actual scum is absolutely your best bet. Duh. Why aren't people doing that?
But extend? That's extending the game into Monday! Boooring. I oppose extension onto Monday, but would agree with a limited extension to end of day Friday if people are OK with that.
No, not necessarily. It just needs a better setting where it is harder to lie about roles. Like where roles are known information.Regardless of my role, I hereby state: The D1 Mass Claim idea is stupid, and hurts town, mostly because it causes scumhunting to be ignored. People will spend their days bullying people into claiming roles and actions, and coming up with crazy plans, and they will never pan out. Next day, invariably, it'll turn out that someone lied (oh noes! someone lied? in mafia?!), regardless of alignment, and the scum have their scumchat to coordinate. Result: No scumhunting. Lots of dead townies. Stupid Strategy.So, how many townie corpses on the floor are needed before people admit the "D1 Mass Claim" thing does not help town?Yeah, probably not. Might work better in a game where roles are static, and not a game like a BYOR.
Bleh. I'm telling you guys, if we don't lynch Bookthras, we lose later. Even if we do lynch scum, what happens is:
7 left - 3 T, 3 M, 1 S
Lynch M
5 left - 2 T, 2 M, 1 S
Lynch M
3 left - 1 T, 1 M, 1 S
Lynch M
I guess the best we get is a tie game, since I'm pretty sure Bookthras is an sk, and not a survivor like he claims. If we lynch Bookthras, we're basically gambling that he's killable at some point, but he'll have to kill the mafia, or he loses.
Either that, or we should lynch penngo for lurking.
Toaster, Dariush, Shakerag, Pengo, Webadict, Native: Who is scum and why? What are you doing to find out? Justify your current vote target, please.
But I take issue with your numbers. First, you assume there are three mafia left... but Orange didn't flip, so can't know for sure, right? Even if there are three left, if I'm lynched, I'll kill you tonight (which I guess has a 50% chance of failure):Orangebottle can't be scum. There are a few reasons for this:
It's actually pretty last ditch. We either use the sk as a vigilante, or we lose because he's an sk. Your lack of kill every Night you were supposed to is why you're scum.Toaster, Dariush, Shakerag, Pengo, Webadict, Native: Who is scum and why? What are you doing to find out? Justify your current vote target, please.
Probably either Toaster because he has no apparent leads on D4 or Wubba for promoting a "last ditch" plan that isn't exactly last ditch and I feel will probably result in town losing. I'm not doing a whole lot to find out just yet. Don't have a vote target because I don't like to throw votes around without a good reason.
What makes you think I'm scum? Why are you okay with lynching Penngo for lurking if you don't think he's scum?
What makes you think I'm scum?Because you are scummy. Why, specifically? This very post of yours is scummy! seriously? You suspect Toaster for having no clear leads? Where are everyone else's? And wuba for a plan, which may or may not be optimal, but at least seems a plausible effort? Plus your lack of kills, lurkiness, and the fact that there are not many other options left. I'm pretty sure Toaster and Pengo are town (I'll kick myself if I'm wrong), so it's three out of you, Dariush, Shakerag, and wuba. Wuba being the least scummy of those four. So yeah, you are scum.
Why are you okay with lynching Penngo for lurking if you don't think he's scum?Because I'm not town, silly! Town losing means I win, yes? Or, according to wuba, at least I'm closer to winning, yes? I'd prefer to win with town if possible, but I'm impatient. I'll basically support just about any lynch at this point.
Orangebottle can't be scum. There are a few reasons for this:Yeah, I buy that.
I assume you see that you lose if you're lynched today, which is why you've manufactured these.I see that town loses if I'm lynched today. Me? You underestimate ma powa'!
This is complicated by the fact that NativeForeigner is probably scum,This is indeed, a complication.
Luckily, I have faith that you actually want the Town to win over the mafia, which is why I'm going with this. If, instead, you wish to be vindictive, seeing as how you lose if you kill wrong, well, that's cool.Winning with town would be my preference, yes. But hanging hurts, and I hear the Wall of Flesh has quite a temper and is not one for thinking deeply into reasons... but I guess we'll find out, if this is the way we want to go. Frankly, I'm itching to see the mighty Wall in all its splendor. It's going to be awesome! So I won't hold a grudge if it happens. (though the Wall of Flesh might...)
Toaster: So, in order: no clue, no clue, no clue. Cute. Do you have opinions on the validity of a D1 mass claim as a strategy to achieve a town victory?
How come it's DAY FOUR and there are no clear indications or strong stances on who maybe, perhaps, has appeared somewhat scummy, maybe enough for at least a pressure vote?
Bookthras, I think, still needs to die regardless. Unless anyone can come up with something compellingly awesome, that seems like the best course of action here.Nnnnnope. We need to lynch scum, not SK or a survivor. Looks like my intial read on you was indeed wrong, Shakerag.
Bookthras: Well what do you expect?No, Mr. Bond. I expect you to die.
Could you recap why Toaster and Penngo are town to you? Why are you still voting Toaster instead of Dariush?I could, but I won't. Do your own homework, scum!
Bookthras: Well what do you expect?No, Mr. Bond. I expect you to die.
Could you recap why Toaster and Penngo are town to you? Why are you still voting Toaster instead of Dariush?I could, but I won't. Do your own homework, scum!
Your guesses are your problem. My votes are mine. I'll vote how and when I choose.
Who do you think is scum? Who should be hanged today?
Bookthras, I think, still needs to die regardless. Unless anyone can come up with something compellingly awesome, that seems like the best course of action here.Nnnnnope. We need to lynch scum, not SK or a survivor. Looks like my intial read on you was indeed wrong, Shakerag.
Except you're not a Survivor. If you were a Survivor, you would never have voted yourself earlier today. You're an sk, and we still need to lynch you. It really is the only way to win because tomorrow or the day after, we might not have a chance to lynch you, and then we lose. We either delay your lynch until it comes to some sort of Mexican standoff, or we lynch you before then, and you get your very own problems of who to kill.I assume you see that you lose if you're lynched today, which is why you've manufactured these.I see that town loses if I'm lynched today. Me? You underestimate ma powa'!
But seriously, look at your plan if we go for lynching scum (instead of me):
7 left - 3 T, 3 M, 1 S
Lynch M
5 left - 2 T, 2 M, 1 S
Lynch M
3 left - 1 T, 1 M, 1 S
Lynch M
...You have at least two more days to decide to lynch me or not, as long as you hit scum (and there's plenty of it! You almost can't miss!). If you lynch me, you lose faster. Probably won't survive to tomorrow.
And that's not a possible thing for you. You cannot win with the Town at all. You also cannot win with the Mafia, which is why you're the secret weapon. But waiting to lynch until later will simply not work, because you're not a survivor.Luckily, I have faith that you actually want the Town to win over the mafia, which is why I'm going with this. If, instead, you wish to be vindictive, seeing as how you lose if you kill wrong, well, that's cool.Winning with town would be my preference, yes. But hanging hurts, and I hear the Wall of Flesh has quite a temper and is not one for thinking deeply into reasons... but I guess we'll find out, if this is the way we want to go. Frankly, I'm itching to see the mighty Wall in all its splendor. It's going to be awesome! So I won't hold a grudge if it happens. (though the Wall of Flesh might...)
Because I thought there were more people alive than there actually were and thus that lynching Book was safe.So why did you open the day voting Book?Bookthras, I think, still needs to die regardless. Unless anyone can come up with something compellingly awesome, that seems like the best course of action here.Nnnnnope. We need to lynch scum, not SK or a survivor. Looks like my intial read on you was indeed wrong, Shakerag.
Bleh. I'm telling you guys, if we don't lynch Bookthras, we lose later. Even if we do lynch scum, what happens is:Hang on.....That table doesn't mean anything assuming 3 kills happen(SK,Lynch,Mafia). We also have 2 protects(me, toaster). So that means if we execute decently, we still have a chance.
7 left - 3 T, 3 M, 1 S
Lynch M
5 left - 2 T, 2 M, 1 S
Lynch M
3 left - 1 T, 1 M, 1 S
Lynch M
I guess the best we get is a tie game, since I'm pretty sure Bookthras is an sk, and not a survivor like he claims. If we lynch Bookthras, we're basically gambling that he's killable at some point, but he'll have to kill the mafia, or he loses.
Either that, or we should lynch penngo for lurking.
Vote count!
Shakerag [3] - Toaster, Dariush, NativeForeigner
Toastr [1] - Dariush,
Not Voting: Penngo, webadict
Shakerag. I get the feeling that he and Wubba are afraid of Bookthras more than they should be.Are you serious? He's going to get us killed!
Dude, I have no kill. You know that.I also know you're an sk.
He's going to get us killed!I can't get you killed if I can't kill. That's my point.
So you've said, but:But even if we lynch all the mafia, we still lose.He's going to get us killed!I can't get you killed if I can't kill. That's my point.
a) if that was the case, it still wouldn't be me that got you killed, and b) if you lynch all the mafia, and you still haven't won, you can get rid of me then.Right, so you're an sk. Thanks for admitting it.
I'm not going to get you killed. That is, unless you get me killed first and give me a kill; then the gloves are off. Right now I'm just a spectator.
Look up "if" in the dictionary, dude. I was merely following your chain of thought and showing you that even if I was, I still would not get you killed.Not directly, but indirectly, you would bring about the loss of Town. If you want to get grammatically fascist about it.
you would bring about the loss of Town.You don't need me for that. You guys are doing it pretty well on your own.
"Adolph Blaine Charles David Earl Frederick Gerald Hubert Irvin John Kenneth Lloyd Martin Nero Oliver Paul Quincy Randolph Sherman Thomas Uncas Victor William Xerxes Yancy Zeus Wolfe-schlegelstein-hausenberger-dorffvoraltern-waren-gewissenhaft-schaferswessen-schafewaren-wohlgepflege-und-sorgfaltigkeit-beschutzen-von-angreifen-durch-ihrraubgierigfeinde-welche-voraltern-zwolftausend-jahres-vorandieerscheinen-wander-ersteer-dem-enschderraumschiff-gebrauchlicht-als-sein-ursprung-von-kraftgestart-sein-lange-fahrt-hinzwischen-sternartigraum-auf-der-suchenach-diestern-welche-gehabt-bewohnbar-planeten-kreise-drehen-sich-und-wohin-der-neurasse-von-verstandigmen-schlichkeit-konnte-fortplanzen-und-sicher-freuen-anlebens-langlich-freude-und-ruhe-mit-nicht-ein-furcht-vor-angreifen-von-anderer-intelligent-geschopfs-von-hinzwischen-sternartigraum, Senior". In case of dire need may be shortened to "Wolfe+585, Senior" - Mafia
(Source: Guiness Book of World Records)
You have the role of the man with the longest name in the world. You didn't steal any cake: you deserved the cake. So you got up in the middle of the night and ate a slice as a midnight snack.
(Auto) This Is The Worst Name: Looking you up anywhere is frankly impossible due to sheer human limits. Inspections on you turn up Town because no way is any detective going to be arsed actually finding you, let alone asking sources about your name.
(Night) Rich Family History: You block the target by boring them to sleep.
(One-shot Mafia Kill) Smother: You can bury someone under the weight of all the legal documents needed to hold your name. The target's role is not revealed after death.
Told you fuckers he didn't die yet.You idiot.
I went to kill Wubba, I couldn't find his room.
You should totally kill Dariush tonight, Book.
Btw, can people describe what exactly an sk does? I'm still new to that concept. Bookthras? You could have the honors? XD
Told you fuckers he didn't die yet.You idiot.
I went to kill Wubba, I couldn't find his room.
You should totally kill Dariush tonight, Book.
I have a 50% chance to avoid actions. I told you this.
Book: I'm fairly certain you'll be able to kill Dariush tonight. You only have a 50% chance of killing Wubba tonight. Thus, I propose we Lynch Wubba and then you can NK Dariush.
What do I do? I make your most horrible nightmares true. I rip your head off, piss down your throat, scoop your balls out with a spoon and jam them into your eye sockets. Then I eat you. Then I get nasty.
Book: I'm fairly certain you'll be able to kill Dariush tonight. You only have a 50% chance of killing Wubba tonight. Thus, I propose we Lynch Wubba and then you can NK Dariush.
What makes you so fucking certain? And why shouldn't we lynch the fuck out of YOU, and then I NK the fuck out of Dariush? Not that I want fucking Wubba to not die -- he'll have to eventually, but I don't understand why you are in such a fucking hurry.
That doesn't explain why we shouldn't just fuckin' lynch him, or why we should believe in your good fucking intentions when you're voting the same fucking way he is. I think you two fuckers are fucking scum trying to bait me into a fuckin' trap. Well, fuck you.
Yo, Bookthras, u mad? :P
Yo, Bookthras, u mad? :P
I'm not sure he's joking about your persona or if he's taunting you because he killed you.
Penngo: Did you kill Bookthras?
Nope, I actually did the opposite, I tried to protect him. It was obvious the scum would kill him anyways, also WHY would you even ask that? My role can't even kill anyone.
I have strong suspicions that Wubba and Dariush are scum. Wubba have a 50% chance to not die during the night to your kill, Dariush doesn't. That's why I want to see Wubba lynched and Dariush eaten.Say you're right. So I say let's lynch the fuck out of Dariush, and I eat webadict tonight. I fail, he kills me, and he's still alive tomorrow, then you lynch the fuck out of him. You win. If I succeed, you lynch me tomorrow, you win.
*Dariush: Coach; his killer will die. His target will be blocked or redirected, 1-shot can message a player with an "I'm town" note (spent, messaged Toaster, who claimed Dariush was Town after some confusion).Wait? If you kill Dariush then don't you die?
Nope, I actually did the opposite, I tried to protect him.Mmm-hmmm... Baby penguins are so fucking tasty. And smart! He figured out that I had already figured out the scum's fucking trap! I haven't had one in a while. Tartar sauce and a spicy Chardonnay I think would do the trick. Yeah. Maybe I'm eating some penguin tonight in any case.
Hmm, Bookthras. If you eat me, I could care less. I'll take the same attitude as you. WHO GIVES A CRAP.
Also, Penngo: Do you know why your protect (assuming you really did) failed?Nope, because a scum lied about their role. My guess on the situation is along these lines. A scum got a role that another scum sent in, lied about their role because it was safe. They should be able to destroy auto abilities and roleblock is my guess. I saw you're post by the way. I posted my earlier one way to early to see that one you posted afterwards.
Hmm, Bookthras. If you eat me, I could care less. I'll take the same attitude as you. WHO GIVES A CRAP.
Waaaaaait, you don't want to eat Dariush because you'll die, huh?
Hmm, Bookthras. If you eat me, I could care less. I'll take the same attitude as you. WHO GIVES A CRAP.
You should very well fucking care. If I eat a townie, town fucking loses. If I eat a scum, town may win. If you are town and want town to win, they you should fucking care I leave a townie for last. You can be that last. Do you want to help your precious fucking town? Then vote the fuck out of Dariush.
[OOC: Dude, the attitude is not mine, it's the Wall of Flesh's; don't take it seriously or personally. It's fun; roll with it.]
- Lynch Dariush, eat Wubba, lynch you, Town wins.There you go McFly! Your left fucking neuron finally connected a synapse with the right one! If we lynch Dariush, both town and I have a chance to win. I'm so fucking hangover that I may even take the 50% chance and who gives a fuck. If Dariush is alive, then I will eat a townie. I guaranfuckingtee it. So TOWN: You want to maybe make it? You wanted to use me as a secret fucking weapon? Here's your fucking chance: Fuck Dariush.
- Lynch Dariush, fail at eating Wubba, likely lose a townie. One scum, one SK, Two townies. Lynch scum, you eat a townie, you win.
- Lynch Dariush, fail at eating Wubba, you get NKed. Three townies, one Scum, lynch them and we win.
Waaaaaait, you don't want to eat Dariush because you'll die, huh?Yeah, I fucking believe your fucking "waaaait" as if you only now realised this. The fuck.
- Lynch Dariush, eat Wubba, lynch you, Town wins.There you go McFly! Your left fucking neuron finally connected a synapse with the right one! If we lynch Dariush, both town and I have a chance to win. I'm so fucking hangover that I may even take the 50% chance and who gives a fuck. If Dariush is alive, then I will eat a townie. I guaranfuckingtee it. So TOWN: You want to maybe make it? You wanted to use me as a secret fucking weapon? Here's your fucking chance: Fuck Dariush.
- Lynch Dariush, fail at eating Wubba, likely lose a townie. One scum, one SK, Two townies. Lynch scum, you eat a townie, you win.
- Lynch Dariush, fail at eating Wubba, you get NKed. Three townies, one Scum, lynch them and we win.
Yeah, I fucking believe your fucking "waaaait" as if you only now realised this. The fuck.
Ah-ah-ah, I'll fucking redirect your ass.So, still interested in Dariush not hanging today, aren't you? Why? Didn't you say he was scum?
And are you willing to bet the fucking game that your redirect won't just make me eat a different fucking townie?[/b]
Crap. Flavour failure. Please imagine the above as if it was written in menacing scary letters.
I did say he was scum, because he is.So why the fuck not just lynch him?! Your resistance is extraordinarily scummy.
We lynch his scumbuddy today, I make you eat him tonight, he dies, you die, town wins.Make me? MAKE ME!? I double dog fucking dare you to try to MAKE me, you worthless piece of shit.
You don't have control of where it lands, do you? If there's only one scum and four townies left tonight, isn't there an eighty percent fucking chance I land on another townie?And are you willing to bet the fucking game that your redirect won't just make me eat a different fucking townie?[/b]That's what I'm contemplating about. What makes you think my redirect would do that?
Book: Your point?
See, you keep saying that I'm resisting the lynch of someone I know is scum, that's not true, I'm resisting lynching scum before we know who his partner is. You just keep trying to push us into handing you a victory. You saw me lay out the possibilities. Lynching his partner before lynching him kills all three of town's threats. Lynching Dariush without knowing his partner opens up all sorts of unpleasant possibilities.Da fudge?!
Hmmm... Native's got a good plan for taking care of the Book problem, but it requires both Web and Dariush to be scum. I did get Dariush's message that he's town, but that doesn't truly mean anything (See: BYOP.)Uh, what? No it's not. That's a godawful plan!
Native: How sure are you that Dariush is scum?
Also, what if Book has some sort of kill protection that would prevent Dariush from killing him?
His plan revolves around this: Kill webadict to remove the only semi-kill-immune townie. Redirect Bookthras to nearby townie. Have partner kill the last one. Lynch Bookthras the following day.
Even beside the obviously scum plan, his plan still seems to think Bookthras is going to kill someone. Or that someone is going to kill him. What makes you think that that plan is ANY good, Toaster? There is no way you're even thinking about it.
I think I can safely go back to voting Webadict for that little outburst.Except I'm not scum, you idiot. No "person with a kill" would ever kill at 6 players because that loses games (I consider a OSV to counted as a vigilante for a Night, because one-shot vigilante is still a real role with the word vigilante in it.) You'd have to have an IQ less than 50 to kill at 6p.
First of all, I'm not a vigilante. I had a one-shot kill, bro. I'm not even sure what you're trying to say with that. My kill didn't "fail for a the umpteenth time", it failed the first and only time. It's not because you called me scum yesterday, it's because you kept on pushing the "Kill Book instead of scum!" plan that was almost certainly going to lose the game for town! And now you're flipping out because I'm bringing up plans that will screw you over.
I would scumhunt, but I'm beginning to see that I won't have to.
Again, not sure what you're trying to say with "shoot at 6 players going into the night". Are you saying that no vig would shoot when there's only six players left? I highly doubt that, I would, and did, shoot at you because you're scum. Simple as that. And my plan of "Dariush is scum so let's lynch Webadict" is sound. Dariush can be NKd, you have a chance to avoid it.His plan revolves around this: Kill webadict to remove the only semi-kill-immune townie. Redirect Bookthras to nearby townie. Have partner kill the last one. Lynch Bookthras the following day.
Even beside the obviously scum plan, his plan still seems to think Bookthras is going to kill someone. Or that someone is going to kill him. What makes you think that that plan is ANY good, Toaster? There is no way you're even thinking about it.
No, it revolves around this: Kill webadict to remove the semi-kill-immune scum, redirect Bookthras to Dariush, have everyone lynch Book if he lives. I find it funny that you're attacking someone for agreeing with one of the only plans that will let town win.
Except I'm not scum, you idiot. No "person with a kill" would ever kill at 6 players because that loses games (I consider a OSV to counted as a vigilante for a Night, because one-shot vigilante is still a real role with the word vigilante in it.) You'd have to have an IQ less than 50 to kill at 6p.
Not that it matters, because you don't really care who you lynch today. You don't want to lynch Dariush probably because of his Super Saint ability, which is understandable, because you're assured of his guilt yet don't want to lynch him.
Also, obvious plan hole: Bookthras nones. WOW. Your plan is SO THOUGHT-OUT! I have a plan that's just as good: YOU SHOULD HAVE LYNCHED BOOKTHRAS YESTERDAY! You conveniently forget about your redirect for Bookthras yesterday? Because you all of a sudden brought up this plan today with no consideration about it yesterday.
Killing Bookthras yesterday was the optimum solution. It really was, and I've explained why.
You're not scumhunting because you don't care who's lynched.
And, for the love of God, do not say I'm freaking out. Do. Not. I will PM you and the moderator for a private chat if it comes to it, but I am not freaking out. Got it? This goes beyond the game. If I'm freaking out, I will say so, and I will take the time to fix that, but until then, do not EVER say I'm freaking out, because you're using it as a poor excuse to not scumhunt. That's all there is to say about that.
Now, use an actual argument on me, coward. You're not even trying to come up with anything.
Wait a minute, why did I say day ends tomorrow? Day ACTUALLY ends Monday.
Firstly, I forgot to action tonight, but even if I didn't, there's not much I could've done.Firstly, "I forgot" is something your scumbuddy already used several fucking times. Come up with a better excuse for "I don't want to share my action." Your collective lack of imagination and originality is fucking repugnant. Not that I doubt you are that incompetent, but come on! How many "forgots" before it ceases to be fucking plausible?
Secondly, Toaster has a fucking mod's PM telling him I'm town.Secondly, Toaster claims he got a PM. The PM didn't say you were town. After some messaging back and forth, there is a PM with such a message, but I don't remotely buy that it means you are actually fucking town. Your ability could easily have been "send a message fakeclaiming I'm town". It proves nothing. But let's try this:
Thirdly, could you please use a lighter font, Book? It's badly readable on the Darkling forum theme and I'm not planning to change it because of a fucker like you.Thirdly, fuck you. If you didn't want to deal with the angry voice of the Wall of Flesh, you shouldn't have fucking killed the plaintext-friendly voodoo doll. Poor thing never hurt anybody, minded its own business, and kept a friendly demeanor throughout. But noooo, you had to fucking kill it. Well, this is what you fucking get. Get the fuck used to it, for the brief rest of your miserable revolting life.
Fourthly, if you kill me, have a nice death due to my auto.Fourthly, that's the reason I prefer to see your corpse dangle from a fucking rope; I smell how poisonous your putrid flesh is likely to be, so I rather not soil my delicate palate on your maggot infested carcass. The fact that you are scum means I can probably get the town to help with that. If they don't I'll eat one of them instead.
Okay, good. You said you're not scum so I can go ahead and unvo- wait a second. But you are scum! Tricky, tricky. Yeah, it would be stupid to use a kill with six people, but only if you have no idea what you're shooting at. I did. I was shooting at scum. I said yesterday that my preference was to lynch scum and then I would shoot scum. No one but you had a problem with that. We lynched scum, I went to shoot scum and it failed. You said nothing of it until after Book and I had our little debate.So your godawful plan is just as godawful as your supposed kill you used last Night because it relies on WIFOM? LOL.
Again, I do care who we lynch. Dariush isn't the best target because his buddy (hint: it's you) has an ability that makes him difficult to NK. Also, Dariush would kill the one who kills him, so that's two threats out of the way right there. However, you can't seem to grasp that very simple concept. Or maybe you just refuse to because it would mean you lose.
Okay, book nones. Worst-case scenario, Dariush kills a townie. That leaves two townies (let's assume I'm dead), Dariush, and Book. Town's pretty much fucked, either Dariush or Book is going to win. However, there's an easy fix: I could also redirect Dariush to Book. Either one would work. Whichever one's alive the next day, we lynch. I can understand Book noning, but Dariush? That would pretty much lose him the game.
Why would I have needed my redirect against Book yesterday? I didn't need to consider it yesterday, he was still a survivor. Also, lynching him yesterday would have resulted in an additional kill and one more scum today (unless Book shot true). Instead, because we lynched scum, we have only two scum left and the mafiakill was used on Book. We are down zero townies when we likely would have been down at least one. The fact that you refuse to acknowledge that this was the better path makes me all the more confident that you're scum. Town Webadict wouldn't miss something that blatant.
I'm not scumhunting because I've already found scum
Well what would you call it? You're throwing insults out left and right, attacking everyone that might even be remotely against you, and now you're saying you'll send out PMs if it comes down to it. If you have a personal thing against someone saying that (I'm guessing that's what you mean by saying it goes beyond the game), then I'll certainly refrain from saying it and apologize for saying it before, perhaps I should have said "overreacting". I'm not out to start any sort of personal conflict with you, I'd like to keep any animosity strictly within the game, but I am using it neither to offend nor, in any way, as a poor excuse to not scumhunt.
I don't have to hide behind insults to make a point. My arguments are valid and I don't have to come up with much, you're digging your own hole as far as I'm concerned.
bile
You're not scumhunting because you're scum.Okay, now you're just plagiarizing.
You too!Quote from: Webadictbile
I hate you all.Welcome to the club, pal.
I'm not scumhunting because I've already found scum.
I don't care. I shouldn't even be playing right now, but I figure why not? We've already lost. What do I care? Native is voting me for no reason whatsoever. Toaster is bandwagoning. Bookthras is an sk. Penngo is lurking. You're probably an idiot. And I don't care anymore. I really don't. And I can smash as many holes in the wall on the way out, but no one reads anything longer than a sentence these days. That's why the town loses every single game.Yay, Wuba's mental breakdown. How I yearned for it. Time to bask in it.
So, now, every game I play in is to not care anymore. Done. I will get lynched every game and stop caring. Screw the town. Screw the mafia. Screw third parties. Screw everyone. That's just so much easier than everything.
Screw everything.
Please lynch me
Web:Quote from: Webadictbile
I'm pretty sure this is Scum Webadict speaking here. Given your inconsistent claims previously, I'm seriously starting to doubt your townhood.
If you're town, where's your golden plan for the town win?
Are you crazy scum? Of course you want the day to end sooner. Oppose shorten.
lol.Quote from: WebadictPlease lynch me
Okay!
Webadict.
Lol, are you people stupid? Yo Dariush, Wubba do you not see Native and Toaster? What madness is this? Of course you want webadict dead, because then you win the game. The shorten also speeds up your process. Yo, Bookthras are you just wanting to let town die and let you live? You realize NATIVE KILLED YOU RIGHT? RIGHT? RIGHT? OR ARE YOU SCARED IF YOU DON'T FOLLOW HIM HE WILL REDIRECT YOU TO DARISUH? Oh wait, he'll do that anyways. What happened to you suspecting he was scum early on? I want some not crap hole awnsers from you. Also....
Native- Nice threat, filthy scum.
Toaster-I like the "Webadict is scum cuz hez scum." theory. Oh wait a minute? Since when was that real evidence.
So you're not even playing to win anymore? =.=Lol, are you people stupid? Yo Dariush, Wubba do you not see Native and Toaster? What madness is this? Of course you want webadict dead, because then you win the game. The shorten also speeds up your process. Yo, Bookthras are you just wanting to let town die and let you live? You realize NATIVE KILLED YOU RIGHT? RIGHT? RIGHT? OR ARE YOU SCARED IF YOU DON'T FOLLOW HIM HE WILL REDIRECT YOU TO DARISUH? Oh wait, he'll do that anyways. What happened to you suspecting he was scum early on? I want some not crap hole awnsers from you. Also....
Native- Nice threat, filthy scum.
Toaster-I like the "Webadict is scum cuz hez scum." theory. Oh wait a minute? Since when was that real evidence.
*sigh*
Yes, Native is scum. Not that I particularly care who is scum; you all fuckers gonna die anyway. If the vote allows it, I'll support his lynch, sure, but if I vote him now, the vote is tied. I don't know who killed me, but Native is as good a candidate as any. I don't particularly care (the Wall of Flesh does, though, but I'll lay off the flavour for a bit). I don't care about his redirect, because I don't think he has it, but he's welcome to try.
Anything else?
Told you fuckers he didn't die yet.He immediately votes me because he couldn't kill me last Night. This makes no sense in every context. A town player would never kill at 6p with 2 scum, because he is just as likely to end the game. Couple this with Night 1 no known action, Night 2 kill failure, Night 3 kill failure, and, look at that, Night 4 kill failure. His vote has no initial pretense, no reasoning, and absolutely NO point.
I went to kill Wubba, I couldn't find his room.
You should totally kill Dariush tonight, Book.
In here, you want to kill Dariush and me. Why? No reasoning. You don't care why. You just want it done.Told you fuckers he didn't die yet.You idiot.
I went to kill Wubba, I couldn't find his room.
You should totally kill Dariush tonight, Book.
I have a 50% chance to avoid actions. I told you this.
Well I missed that.
Book: I'm fairly certain you'll be able to kill Dariush tonight. You only have a 50% chance of killing Wubba tonight. Thus, I propose we Lynch Wubba and then you can NK Dariush.
Again, no evidence. Anyone that questions you is clearly scum. Why is that?Are you crazy scum? Of course you want the day to end sooner. Oppose shorten.
I'm beginning to rethink Wubba's partner.
Lynching Wubba guarantees a town winContext is pretty intact to, if you want to argue about that.
Don't be daft, of course I am. But I win when you fuckers are all dead, so I don't care in which order you bite the dust. Just get'er done already!No, you wont live tonight if you act stupidly, which is what you're doing right now. If you make a small mistake you're going to die, you need to realize this. You have the best chance of living if you lynch scum particularly Native, so you don't take the RISK of dying.
And my last ability shall remain a secret for now. If we need it, it'll be revealed. If not, no one gets hurt by it. Promise. And you know you can trust my promises....he doesn't. He holds it back so he can see what everyone else has before he claims it. He knew his scumbuddy Shakerag had a one shot role-hide kill and either him or his other scumbuddy had a one-shot role nuke. What better way to find a good target for them than a massclaim? Given this, he browbeats (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=98843.msg2901078#msg2901078) people (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=98843.msg2901591#msg2901591) until they go along.
Penngo:No, I'm trying to make you and Native lose, you scumbuddies(I'd rather let book win). I still have ideas of my own how to win however, all of them are ridiculously unlikely.
Seriously? Are you trying to help the confirmed serial killer? What the hell are you thinking? Are you trying to get everyone killed?
[Citation Needed]
Are you crazy scum? Of course you want the day to end sooner. Oppose shorten.
I'm beginning to rethink Wubba's partner.
Are you crazy scum? Of course you want the day to end sooner. Oppose shorten.Vote webadict and say shorten, or die ASAP.
Anyway, I finally got the time to collect the data on Web.What? No, seriously. What?
Web starts off by kicking off a D1 mass claim. Except...What the fudge? YOU went along with it! Everyone went along with it except Orangebottle! I figured I'd see how well it went, which is why I offered half up-front and half later! If I offer everything upfront, then it's pointless. Plus, it was a test to see what happened in a game. If it cause me the loss, oh well, lesson learned. I've seen what it does and honestly it doesn't work very well.And my last ability shall remain a secret for now. If we need it, it'll be revealed. If not, no one gets hurt by it. Promise. And you know you can trust my promises....he doesn't. He holds it back so he can see what everyone else has before he claims it. He knew his scumbuddy Shakerag had a one shot role-hide kill and either him or his other scumbuddy had a one-shot role nuke. What better way to find a good target for them than a massclaim? Given this, he browbeats (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=98843.msg2901078#msg2901078) people (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=98843.msg2901591#msg2901591) until they go along.
Here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=98843.msg2947502#msg2947502), come D3, he mentions his action isn't on Leafsnail's list. The obvious answer is because he didn't do it. He never even actually said what his action is supposed to be! He then drove the wagon on Leafsnail, knowing that itSo, I lynched Leafsnail to PROVE my own partner and I were scum? That doesn't make sense in any universe ever. I mean, I realize that sounds like the best idea ever, but I'm clearly not smart enough to think of it.
incriminated him and Shakerag.
D4 it took him two RL days to finally get around to voting anyone. He only votes Book, claiming offing him is the best way to win for the town. He completely ignores his scumbuddy Shakerag who does nothing all that day except sit around and be scum.Lynching Book WAS the best idea. I've already talked about this. He was an sk. He is still currently an sk. NativeForeigner is mafia, and had no kill. We had no vigilante. This is all making my plan look SO BAD!
Today, he suddenly explodes over Native with a OMGUS for wanting to kill the SK, and goes into frothy bilious rage mode. He's not interesting in finding scum- he's just trying to be loud and distracting. This is Scum Webadict, people. Let's lynch him.I thought he was scum yesterday. It's not an OMGUS, either, because my vote has reasoning. His is completely baseless. I'm not being loud and distracting. I'm trying to have an argument with NativeForeigner. You've taken zero looks at him, despite him making NO attempt to come up with a reason to vote me.
Webadict:Oh, I'm sorry. Did you mean the quotes I provided in the post? The ones that are literally RIGHT THERE? Here's some more, you lazy scumbag. I'll even let people click them so they're not out of context.
Webadict is scum.
But really, there's a whole lot of nothing new in your most recent pile of nonsense. Allow me to summarize it:[Citation Needed]
Honestly, where is ANY of your evidence? All I see is a bunch of "You're lying because I said so", lack of proofs (what you do offer as proof is more nonsense), and nonsensical arguments. You're deliberately making posts that I can't appropriately respond to with the occasional insult to try to get a rise out of me and I'm not going to bite. If you truly want a response from me (which I highly doubt) then try making something along the lines of a logical argument.
Where is your proof you used your one shot kill? LOL btw, you're obviously bluffing now, that is why you're pointing it out obviously, I praise Book for pointing that out first though. Even if I was mafia it would be a stupid idea to help webadict, as it would obviously result in me dying, however it is so obvious you and toaster are mafia...What town in their mind would vote for a shorten at the time? That is just idiotic. You obviously want the game to not last that much longer because you're scum. Justify the shorten at least. Preferably now. Also you threaten me with saying
You're kidding, right? This doesn't even sound like you. It sound like you're being coached. Heavily.
First of all, how the hell do you expect me to prove that? I could give you the flavor, but what good does that do you? I'm bluffing because I answered Toaster's question with an appropriate change of plan? You're heavily-steered words aren't making much sense.
Yes, if you were mafia, you wouldn't be making any mistakes at all, and if Wubba was mafia, he wouldn't have let himself make any of his mistakes. Because, you know, everyone who plays mafia plays perfectly. Especially the newbies.
Town that's caught scum and wants the game to move on. Here's my justification: Scumadict's been caught and a plan's been made. Nothing is happening now expect for Webadict spewing more bile and you chainsawing him like mad. I really don't want an entire weekend of that.
Of course I threatened you for your extremely scummy behavior.
Webadict:
I've countered each and every one of those and you keep bringing them up. Your arguments keep going in circles and it's really obnoxious.
Holy God, this NativeForeigner guy is a scummy lazy loser. It's frickin' ridiculous.Any instructions for your Secret Weapon, your Majesty?
Webadict:No you haven't.
I've countered each and every one of those and you keep bringing them up. Your arguments keep going in circles and it's really obnoxious.
[Citation Needed]
Stop posting in maroon, it makes you look like a nancy.Holy God, this NativeForeigner guy is a scummy lazy loser. It's frickin' ridiculous.Any instructions for your Secret Weapon, your Majesty?
Hahahahahahahah! Yes, your Majesty. Good to see you back in form.Thanks. It was kind of hurting my eyes.
No you haven't.
Quotes or it didn't happen you liar.
Yup. OK, it seems we are indeed doing this. I shortened to avoid another impossibly lurky weekend, but I have no objections to it if people are going to actually play. So, two points:
a) Withdraw shorten request.
b) NativeForeigner.
Cute.Am I? According to you, I had lost it already on account of your redirect and whatnot, hadn't I? By your own posted plans, my best chance to win if is you hang today, isn't it? (not that I agree: you don't have Tinkerbell, and my best bet was hanging Dariush).
Withdraw shorten.
You're just losing yourself the game, Mr. Flesh.
Yup. OK, it seems we are indeed doing this. I shortened to avoid another impossibly lurky weekend, but I have no objections to it if people are going to actually play. So, two points:Thank you for not being a complete jerk. I won't mind if you win, so long as the mafia lose. But I'm not going to let you win either. I'll come up with something. As long as I'm alive, I have a chance to completely ignore your kill or whatever it is I'm supposed to be afraid of.
a) Withdraw shorten request.
b) NativeForeigner.
Your attempts to goad me are pathetic at best. Do you really think my pride is so fragile that calling me a coward is going to do anything? Come on, you can do better than that. Or maybe you can't, I certainly haven't seen it. I'm not delaying, I'm not trying to avoid defending myself, I'm refusing to repeat the same thing to you over and over again while you sit in your cute little corner and accuse me of the same thing in different ways while trying to get a rise out of me, probably because you think eventually I'll drop a faketell and get you off the hook. I'm not going to give you the attention you so desperately seek, so either come up with something new and remotely substantial or hold your tongue. I'm guessing you'll do neither.Lol, I don't have to do better than that. The fact that I've gotten time to persuade other people is all I needed. You leave all the evidence behind that I need. They aren't faketells. They're legitimately fishy activities, and they're legitimately scummy. Your refusal to defend yourself is ridiculous, and don't be surprised when it turns around and bites you.
Because your goal is to not get lynched. Everyone's goal is to not get lynched, except for a Jester. Why would I lose gracefully when I can fight to win? Why should you not defend yourself when it is everyone's job to do so? What makes you so much better than everyone else? Apparently, I'm supposed to let you win? No, I don't think so.No you haven't.
Quotes or it didn't happen you liar.
Why do I need to prove it to you? Enough people see you as the scumbag you are. The only reason you're even still saying anything is because you refuse to lose gracefully.
Dariush: Have you posted an opinion today?Dunno.
You do so much, it's ridiculous. Thanks for that. It's totally helpful.Dariush: Have you posted an opinion today?Dunno.
Toaster: I'm starting to have my doubts with Penngo's recent actions. The vehemency with which he's defending Webadict and attacking you and me is ridiculous. He's being just as bad as Webadict about ignore key points in the arguments and the way he opposed the shorten makes me think he was just creating time for Webadict to start ranting again.
So I came up with a slightly different plan, I'm assuming that Dariush was telling the truth about the fact that anyone who kills him also dies (if he was lying, he's probably scum, anyway). So, I'm going to redirect Book to Dariush. Book kills Dariush, Dariush's ability kills book. If Dariush is scum, yay. If he's town, he sacrificed himself for the victory and then you and I lynch Penngo.
however it is so obvious you and toaster are mafia...
Where is your proof
Penngo:No, I'm trying to make you and Native lose, you scumbuddies(I'd rather let book win). I still have ideas of my own how to win however, all of them are ridiculously unlikely.
Seriously? Are you trying to help the confirmed serial killer? What the hell are you thinking? Are you trying to get everyone killed?
Web: Yes, seriously.So, I guess this is "defend NativeForeigner for him" Day? Cool. Why is it never "listen to the guy that's right" day?
Yes, I went with the massclaim once it started rolling. It's an interesting idea, to be sure. The point is you knew it'd benefit your team far more than the town, which is why you kicked it off.
I'll give you that point on Leafsnail- I think I misread that on my reread.
Where'd you think he was scum yesterday?
This is complicated by the fact that NativeForeigner is probably scum
Dariush: If you're not going to play, don't sign up. If you are playing, how can you possibly justify your actions working to fulfill your wincon?Pop quiz: why would town Wuba rally people to lynch an SK at LYLO? (Hint: he wouldn't)
When said SK was our only hope to win. Do I need to explain more?Dariush: If you're not going to play, don't sign up. If you are playing, how can you possibly justify your actions working to fulfill your wincon?Pop quiz: why would town Wuba rally people to lynch an SK at LYLO? (Hint: he wouldn't)
Who do you think is Wuba's buddy, then?Dariush: If you're not going to play, don't sign up. If you are playing, how can you possibly justify your actions working to fulfill your wincon?Pop quiz: why would town Wuba rally people to lynch an SK at LYLO? (Hint: he wouldn't)
Native:And when I get scumkilled and it's just you and Penngo? I don't think you've actually thought this through, or you indeed have and have an entirely different plan.
Crap, didn't think of that. Any alternate ideas? The more I think about it, the more I think Dariush is town and Penngo is scum, but I'm not sure.
Everyone: A tie means a scum victory, just sayin'.
PFP
Everyone: A tie means a scum victory, just sayin'.
And you're really grasping at straws there. If I were scum, how could I know it benefits me more without actually KNOWING what the roles are? I also must've planned this a month before the game started. I'm clearly some sort of omniscient being.
Also, who do you think is scum? Because I want to hear what you're going to say.
Native: You're the mastermind of that plan- what's your opinion of it? Also, what of Think's assertion (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=98843.msg3029676#msg3029676) that you seem to be conveniently ignoring?
Are you really trying to tell me you wouldn't like to know which auto ability isn't the best one to nuke off ahead of time?Web's claimed ability is not to "nuke", but to "reset":
My one-shot's a reset. I turn someone back into their original role.Whether you believe him or not, you pulled "nuke" out of your arse. (or back it up, if you can)
That doesn't mean I wouldn't benefit from some input. I seem to have completely forgotten about scum's NK when I made that plan, because of that oversight, it's a broken plan. As for Think's assertion, I missed that until Book brought it up just now. This isn't a Bastard game, so I would think Think is telling the truth. I'm fairly certain of your townhood, so that leaves Penngo. If we lynch Wubba, I can redirect Book to Penngo or Penngo to book and the remaining townies lynch the one still alive.Yeah, you could use some input. Yeah, your plan is broken. Yeah, you are scum. Yeah, you are sure of Toaster's townhood.
Web:Hehehe.And you're really grasping at straws there. If I were scum, how could I know it benefits me more without actually KNOWING what the roles are? I also must've planned this a month before the game started. I'm clearly some sort of omniscient being.
Are you really trying to tell me you wouldn't like to know which auto ability isn't the best one to nuke off ahead of time?Also, who do you think is scum? Because I want to hear what you're going to say.
You're my top pick, but damned if I can tell who #2 is. Dariush is being... I have no idea what he's doing, but there's Think's clarification that says he is indeed town. Native is bullheadedly stuck to a plan fraught with peril, and Penngo isn't backing up any of his cases.
Native: You're the mastermind of that plan- what's your opinion of it? Also, what of Think's assertion (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=98843.msg3029676#msg3029676) that you seem to be conveniently ignoring?
You? Benefit from input? Is that so you don't have to do anything yourself?Native: You're the mastermind of that plan- what's your opinion of it? Also, what of Think's assertion (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=98843.msg3029676#msg3029676) that you seem to be conveniently ignoring?
That doesn't mean I wouldn't benefit from some input. I seem to have completely forgotten about scum's NK when I made that plan, because of that oversight, it's a broken plan. As for Think's assertion, I missed that until Book brought it up just now. This isn't a Bastard game, so I would think Think is telling the truth. I'm fairly certain of your townhood, so that leaves Penngo. If we lynch Wubba, I can redirect Book to Penngo or Penngo to book and the remaining townies lynch the one still alive.
However, none of that matters if the vote remains tied.
If yes, go ahead and bet the game on a possible mislynch/nolynch.Aren't all mafia games basically that?
If not, then either work at changing his mind and vote Wuba (or a nolynch would happen anyway) or realise that neither Native nor Toaster are about to bus Wuba at this stage, and switch your vote to Native.Stop blackmailing me, you piece of shit.
Stop lurking and play.If yes, go ahead and bet the game on a possible mislynch/nolynch.Aren't all mafia games basically that?If not, then either work at changing his mind and vote Wuba (or a nolynch would happen anyway) or realise that neither Native nor Toaster are about to bus Wuba at this stage, and switch your vote to Native.Stop blackmailing me, you piece of shit.
But sure, say you "redirect Book to Penngo or Penngo to book": how does town win from that?
Webadict: Yeah, I would benefit from input so I don't miss something.Where are these defenses? Where is this reasoning? I'm sorry, but if you have no quotes, then they don't exist.
I've been over this. I've defended myself against the same accusations multiple times, haven't lied, and I've reasoned my vote well enough.
Extend.
I've had a busy weekend and I'm traveling all day today and tomorrow.
Do you really want me to redirect you back to our back-and-forth, where I defended myself multiple times against the same thing?Sure. Feel free to quote the important parts where you defended yourself against specific accusations.
Oppose extension.It's really hard to do something by yourself. Native not doing anything means that no one will participate, meaning that he can lurk the Day away to victory.
I really want to see someone try to do something, but lurking the weekend away, then lurking the Monday away, then lurking the Tuesday away, and extending to keep lurking? Hell no. I'll withdraw the opposition if activity warrants it, but otherwise let's let what's going to happen happen.
Town: a tie means you lose. It behooves you to break the tie one way or another.
Do you really want me to redirect you back to our back-and-forth, where I defended myself multiple times against the same thing?Sure. Feel free to quote the important parts where you defended yourself against specific accusations.
Native: Where is your content? Where are your arguments? Where is your logic and reason? You've gone too long without giving any of it. You've grown complacent with your faulty "plan" and have offered up nothing- nothing!- to replace it.
Why? Because there is nothing else. You're trapped, and you've got nothing. You've been found out, scum.
It's not about proving things to me. It's about not being a lazy scumbag. You're proving yourself to be scum by not defending yourself. If anything, you're making your job even tougher.Do you really want me to redirect you back to our back-and-forth, where I defended myself multiple times against the same thing?Sure. Feel free to quote the important parts where you defended yourself against specific accusations.
I really don't need to prove anything to you, actually.
El Camino - Town
(Source: Chevrolet car)
You have the role of a sweet-ass car.
(Auto) Classic Car: When lynched, your lynchers realize how valuable a car they just destroyed, and one of them kills themselves. One of the people who voted you when you are lynched dies.
(Night) Let's Go For A Ride: You pick up the target and drop them off elsewhere. You redirect the target to another player.
(One-shot) Truckin': You crush the target under your awesome car. You kill the target.
Western Block Party - Mafia:
(Source: Politics)
You have the role of a secessionist Canadian political party. You feel that the bigwigs in the eastern part of Canada haven't been giving as much cake as they should have to the western parts, and thus took a slice for yourself.
(Auto) Coalition Party: As long as another Mafia member is alive, your coalition cannot be stopped! You are immune to roleblocks as long as another Mafia member is still alive.
(Night) Corrupt Federal Health Insurance: You can protect a target. If that target is protected by someone else, both protects fail. However, any additional protects will work as expected.
(One-shot Mafia-kill) Secession: You force a part of the (metaphorical) country to secede, and the target and up to 2 people targeting them die in the resulting civil war that breaks out around them.
The 14th Player - Mafia
You have the role of the 14th player in the game, the secret murderer that shouldn't exist and yet still kills, unstoppably at that. You managed to steal a slice of cake from the closed refrigerator.
(Source: Umineko No Naku Koro Ni)
(Auto) There Are No More Than 13 Players: All actions against you have a 50% chance of failing, as you're not actually supposed to be in the game.
(Night, Mafia-kill) Closed-Room Murder: If you perform the mafia-kill, you ignore protections.
(One-shot) Red Text: With a few short words, you can declare the game to be the way you want it. Target loses their autoability.
Coach - Town:
(Source: Left 4 Dead 2)
You have the role of Coach, a survivor of the zombie apocalypse and one mean shooter.
(Auto) Tough to Put Down: Your grit and determination gives you steadfast determination. You cannot be redirected.
(Night) Assist: You lead the target to their destination, clearing the way for them. Target cannot be blocked or redirected.
(One-shot) Signal Flare: You send a message to the target, and you are confirmed as town to the target.
Really? Oppose shorten? What for? Why not extend to fucking Monday again? Learn to lose with dignity, you little tasty snack.
Oppose opposition, call for an End of Day; unless Penngo thinks he can do anything other than vote me, or force me to unvote him, there's no point in delays.
I call my N6 night action right now: I will eat you. If you really have that "hiding" power you claimed, and you haven't used it, then let's take the night as read (no one dies), the following day D7 (we vote each other), and make it N7 right away: I will fucking eat you twice, since I was hungry the night before.
Now get back here, look DEATH in the face, and meet your maker.
I predict all with 99% accuracy.Your predictions are tasty, and good with ketchup. Please talk to your savoury little offspring there, and tell it to stop running. It's giving me a wicked headache, and he ain't gonna change nothing. Not a fucking thing.
Wall of Flesh - Horrible Horrible Serial Killer
(One-shot) - Extremely Hard to Kill - You are immune to 1 night kill.
(Auto) - Om Nom Nom - The first person to target you every night dies. Violently.
(Auto) - Team Effort - You require an extra vote to be lynched. With 6 people currently alive, that means 4 other people need to vote you in order to lynch you. This ability is lost if your one-shot is used up.
(Night) - Tentacles - You horribly horribly murder someone.
Egregious - Town:
(Source: TVTropes)
You have the role of the word 'egregious', specifically in the context of TVTropes. As such, you're less 'egregious' and more 'horrible mutilation of egregious.' Close enough!
(Auto) Take a Shot: Every time someone sees you, they take a shot. And by shot, I mean bottle of vodka. The hangover is obvious the next day, and you can tell everyone who targeted you during the night.
(Night) Shockingly Bad Performance: You force killers to make an egregious (take a shot) mistake. The target is protected from kills.
(One-shot) Egregious Is Not Gregarious: You are not gregarious, and as such you lock yourself up for the night. All actions against you fail.
Seriously, once you started pressing for an SK-lynch on LYLO it was obvious you were mafia. Shame on you guys not to have voted him.Actually, that was pretty much your only way to win. There was no other way for Town to win. Literally no other way.
Wuba totally fooled me. Since I had no kill, his plan seemed plausible, and he was not nearly as scummy as Native. At D4, I would have bet my left testicle the scum were Native and Dariush. Between the Mod's clarification of the PM thing and Toaster's subsequent scumminess, I would have bet my right testicle it was Native and Toaster... but I never saw wuba coming. Bastard.Duh.
I mostly thought Toaster was town because I voted him (a deciding lynch vote) early D4, before the extension, and thought that if he was scum he'd protest or countervote. Since he seemed OK with it, I assumed he was town. Big mistake, which took a while to remedy.
Regarding Native's Tinkerbell plan, I expected he'd die when targeting me, and if it came to that, I'd burn my 1-shot on Dariush, and survive and still skullfuck the lot of them. I was never afraid of it. But Toaster conveniently exploding himself on Tinkerbell's knickers meant I could expend my horrible horrible kill on a 50% chance on wuba. Dariush tried to help, I think, but died on touching me. Then Penngo was just dessert.
But people, please tell me: who the fuck killed the poor innocent Voodoo Doll, and oh why the fuck WHY!?
I'm not about to argue the point, but I think, in hindsight, that if you had killed a townie instead of the guy who killed you, you may have had a better chance. Maybe.Not the point. The point is that it forced a Town loss. Everyone needed to learn a lesson.
Seriously, what really did him in was Toaster's suicide. Otherwise it would've been a 3p lylo which would've depended entirely on who Pengo voted. Unless toaster voted him, which would also result in a win for you.Nah, I was just gambling on that one. I gambled a lot this game. I was really hoping Bookthras would get killed by it, instead of Toaster, but hey, sometimes you get unlucky.
Seriously, what really did him in was Toaster's suicide. Otherwise it would've been a 3p lylo which would've depended entirely on who Pengo voted. Unless toaster voted him, which would also result in a win for you.I was unlynchable at 3p lylo. Cool, ain't it?
Nah, I was just gambling on that one. I gambled a lot this game. I was really hoping Bookthras would get killed by it, instead of Toaster, but hey, sometimes you get unlucky.I was *this* close to unvote Native once Toaster voted him, but was afraid it would trigger an extension and lots of arguing and gnashing of teeth, so I decided to run the percentage chance. Like when I ate you last night; had I failed, I still would have won, but not as fast, and I didn't know if any of you had unexpected cards up your sleeves.
Yeah but I wasn't sure if you got killed or not and hence lost your lynch-resistance.Seriously, what really did him in was Toaster's suicide. Otherwise it would've been a 3p lylo which would've depended entirely on who Pengo voted. Unless toaster voted him, which would also result in a win for you.I was unlynchable at 3p lylo. Cool, ain't it?
I was *this* close to unvote Native once Toaster voted him, but was afraid it would trigger an extension and lots of arguing and gnashing of teeth, so I decided to run the percentage chance. Like when I ate you last night; had I failed, I still would have won, but not as fast, and I didn't know if any of you had unexpected cards up your sleeves.Ah. You screwed up, Think. Wuba shouldn'ta flipped.
You get WIFOMed too easily.Yeah but I wasn't sure if you got killed or not and hence lost your lynch-resistance.Seriously, what really did him in was Toaster's suicide. Otherwise it would've been a 3p lylo which would've depended entirely on who Pengo voted. Unless toaster voted him, which would also result in a win for you.I was unlynchable at 3p lylo. Cool, ain't it?
Right. They didn't know about my unlynchability, and whether I had been killed. The one time they could have actually lynched me (and maybe should have) they were focused on the wuba-vs-Native thing.You get WIFOMed too easily.Yeah but I wasn't sure if you got killed or not and hence lost your lynch-resistance.Seriously, what really did him in was Toaster's suicide. Otherwise it would've been a 3p lylo which would've depended entirely on who Pengo voted. Unless toaster voted him, which would also result in a win for you.I was unlynchable at 3p lylo. Cool, ain't it?
PPE: Native: But you seemed to have a lot of fun when the Wall of Flesh got vulgar. We spent like 100 posts bantering back and forth in two threads at the same time. *THAT* was a lot of fun!
Oh I sooo wish I had had a chance to meet Tinkerbell. I hope you bought some pretty knickers for her. Too bad Toaster beat me to the prom.
I actually told Think over PM earlier that, if Penngo decided to keep running for another week, I was fully ready to keep up the horrible, horrible banter for as long as there was activity on the thread. I would have enjoyed every second, and hope more games give us similar opportunities.
As you move to help Book, he violently bludgeons you over the head as an automatic reflex. You die.AKA the stupidest mafia death ever.
Even though I've stated it a number of times, I love your flavor Think. It usually made me laugh :)
La de da, gonna murder Wuba and not the mod, la de da de...
Secretly, it turns out there's a cooler party that's right down the block that you're at!
It's at the county morgue. Your ass is stone cold dead.