March 6, 2024: Dwarf Fortress 50.12 has been released.
News: February 3, 2024: The February '24 Report is up.
News: February 4, 2021: Dwarf Fortress Talk #28 has been posted.
News: November 21, 2018: A new Threetoe story has been posted.
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By having some of them require co-operation with other players you could have discussion and information exchange going on.Which would be entirely unrelated to hunting scum , since there's no way to distinguish between other players vis a vis their guilt beyond mechanical advantage since there's not information asymmetry with regards to the murder and this does nothing to change that.
The idea is that everyone has that same win condition, and it's up to you when and if you become scum to try and win the game.How are you supposed to hunt between a group of players (suspects) when each of them was literally trying to do the same thing and has no actual preference in who they would kill (i.e. each of them would be just as happy with the situation, given their wincon, if they happened to be the one who made the kill - to the point where we can imagine that each player could have chose the same list and the mod picked the winning submission)? It strikes me that the core game loop is concerned about figuring out who is lying about their power role (probably everyone) and how (probably a lot), and then divining the killer from there; if this is the case, then hunting is based purely on parsing mechanical information and a light bit of cold reading on claims.
doll, the "group therapy" behaviour you despise is Mafia as serious business.I don't despise it. It's not ideal for me, obviously, but that's just a mismatch between my priorities and those of the community.
A few loose, messy thoughts:While your analysis is of course correct if you include the wider context of the players-as-people within the scope of what is called 'The Game of Mafia', within the alternate interpretation of 'The Game of Mafia' (my view) where a narrower scope of variables is included and deviance amongst players from their presumed position in this set (i.e. elements outside of core competencies and availability to play) is a deviance from the game known as 'Mafia'.
Mafia is, to a certain extent, a giant pile of principal-agent problems. Each faction has interests to pursue, but can only pursue them through its members, who have their own separate and oft-competing interests. We are not automatons translating our factions' interests into actions. We are people, complicated and flawed as we all are. We see the effects of this all the time, most notably in the way almost every player wants to survive more than their faction wants them to.
TBF tries his best (he can only post by phone, he's pretty much young, and he's on the autism spectrum yet is pretty awesome like everyone else); so using whatever you've seen in him (but not mentioned about it at all to him or in public), shouldn't be used as a basis.Y'know, Tiruin, I've always assumed you were aware, but maybe you actually aren't. I've got something to tell you, if that's the case:
This is a game about managing people, among other things.Yes, and when I manage people at work, I am able to achieve discrete, actionable objectives. You could say that doing so is no different from manging people in a game of mafia. The difference is, of course, that one is work and the importance to me of the objectives achieved and the quality of the atmosphere and the individuals contributing thereto within that work context is far greater, while the other is ostensibly play yet revolves around literally asking autistic children not to intentionally lose easy games.
And yes, Bay 12 Mafia behaviour is influenced by local social norms. Mafia is greatly shaped by any community's social norms, shared ideas, and social structures. To horribly paraphrase Alexander Wendt, Mafia is what players make of it. To have certain tactics be taboo is quite normal, and hardly a sign of non-seriousness. The norm you note, though, is not as strongly town-leaning as you seem to think: while faking that sort of appeal is taboo, the underlying issues are hardly exclusive to town. Scum can be as thrown off as town is by the same forces, and can express it as much as town can.Within the context in which it was expressed, there can be no doubt that Flabort's outburst was a towntell. Of course, if you attempt to construct and stretch a general case wide enough, you will notice errors in your model. In this case, however, the specific case of Flabort was extraordinarily polarized and direct.
I make a lot of points. You gotta keep up!EBWOP:True, but you're kind of a dick about it. Nobody really understands your points because you make a point and then disprove it through your own actions.
Letting players like TBF or (doll) back into games after disrupting them is how you kill communities. It's not a good idea in my opinion.
Like: How did the thinking even get to 'coddle group' than anything actually therapeutic? That's how I sensed out your idea of support group or otherwise--not really like a support group.It really is like a support group - players come and play, and except when an issue weighs heavy on their mind, in which case they share it and other members of the community literally offer support. The issue is, of course, that this gets in the way of the play. It's a perfectly reasonable position from the point of view of the one asking for support, since the support is likely to have more value for them than the game itself. The other players keep the institution in place presumably in order to benefit from it themselves at a later date. The whole process lies against the interest of causal actors such as myself who don't benefit from the system, and so we seek to take preliminary action against it. Of course, a wider range of activity in response to this system requires much more work than the benefit is worth.
You're a lot better than how bitter you were, here. And you're always welcome into this community (sockpuppet or not...but preferably as 'not a sockpuppet' :v because why anyway); it's moreso the bitter attitude that's not that welcome x.xIt is instructive that you think I'm bitter, because in this case I am merely acting out of narcissistic and self aggrandizing motives to carry on a conversation about myself. Similarly, where I do not write for a specific objective, it should be presumed (as in the general case) that I am writing for the benefit of myself, and so do not intend to communicate anything in great detail excepting in that case.
Which had been great, had you given any kind of hint that you didn't care what people thought or could come up with, instead you asked what people thought so I thought you'd have at least a slight interest in it.Pull your head out of your ass.
If there never was any way to sway your shots, there were never any purpose of doing anything the last 3 days, because it's essentially all the same kills that would always have gone through, so why all the theatrics about asking if anyone had issues with your bot three?
But sure go afk till day-end instead because nothing more productive can be done I'm sure, that's a great attitude >_>He's not going afk until day-end, you're encouraging everyone in the game to go afk until the end of time because you're dragging out a day where nobody can apply any more pressure (because the lynches etc. are set in stone at this point) and nobody really cares that much because the flips and night-actions are going to change all their reads anyway.
Pozzai - Why HAVEN'T you done it yourself yet? You made how important you think it is quite clear.This is pretty much why I called you bad earlier.
Who does WIFOM benefit? Nobody but scum. But Doll here has created much more WIFOM than anyone in the game.
Reads
doll:1) Either I've fucked up Day 1 for no reason at all and am the most obvious lynch possible on Day 2, or I'm not going to be here come Day 2
2) Therefore, vote me if I am alive D2+ and don't vote me otherwise
Plenty of WIFOM here. Time to throw some more out.
I'm probably going to get daykilled or something anyway