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DF General Discussion / Re: *We need your help to save the noobs!*
« on: November 01, 2019, 06:53:53 pm »
I have to say, I love this game, and I watched a lot of people play it, and have played it myself a lot.
I have a few positive things to say about Dwarf Fortress. It is a game that doesn't "show you the way" and I love that aspect of it. There are very little games like that where you don't feel like the game holds your hand while you learn to deal with it's mechanics and inputs, and even fewer that would have such a complex interface. Gamers that gravitate towards Dwarf Fortress and stick with it draw satisfaction from discovering how to do something themselves, despite it not being obvious at all. Of course i'll be watching a tutorial about how to solve an issue if I can't figure it out myself, and I had a lot of joy watching other people play over on youtube and twitch. Some of those people that showed me the ropes of Dwarf Fortress I would consider as friends, and the Dwarf Fortress community is great for this.
In order to appeal to a newbie, a game doesn't necessarily have to be accessible. At this point we will have to just assume that this is still the direction the devs wanna go, and that the community aspect, and eventually the modding community will play a role in bonding the players that chose to play Dwarf Fortress.
How do you save the newbies? Well you don't, they don't need to be saved from this game. The interface could be more intuitive, the menu more fleshed out, some systems reworked (i'm looking at you millitary system). But Ultimately the choice of a player to "stick" with this game only depends on how much time are they allowing themselves to fail before they succeed. This is a parameter that was very common on older gen games (i'm talking 1980 nintendo and arcade games) because of the limitations of the hardware at the time. Starting over a game because you failed was normal because there were no ways to save the game back then, and that also kept people playing over and over again so as to "complete" the game, with no obvious hints or tips about what went wrong in their last run. Now Dwarf Fortress has the benefit of being an "endless" game, especially fortress mode, and it is a scary proposition. The only measure of how successfull a fort is is how many years did it last, and comparing that with how long the last fort you played lasted. That's also a subjective measure considering the embark would not be exactly the same, and depending on wether both forts are on the same world or not, the previous fort's dwarves could be the new fort's migrants. Hopefully, the player is gonna progress from learning about the game's mechanic as they go, and it would help their forts last.
The issue that new people have with Dwarf Fortress is hinging on that instant gratification that they get from other games, that is very common in newer games that are very popular. Dwarf Fortress have to rely on players having their own goals, and setting new goals as they go. And these two ways to play games appeal to different people. Other games have succeeded in bridging that gap, by having set objectives, timed events, achievements, side missions... all these things can help new players that are missing a goal feel more "involved" in the Dwarf Fortress experience.
I think I drove a few points home, thanks for reading me if you got this far, have a :cookie: on me. Bay12Forums Strike the earth!
I have a few positive things to say about Dwarf Fortress. It is a game that doesn't "show you the way" and I love that aspect of it. There are very little games like that where you don't feel like the game holds your hand while you learn to deal with it's mechanics and inputs, and even fewer that would have such a complex interface. Gamers that gravitate towards Dwarf Fortress and stick with it draw satisfaction from discovering how to do something themselves, despite it not being obvious at all. Of course i'll be watching a tutorial about how to solve an issue if I can't figure it out myself, and I had a lot of joy watching other people play over on youtube and twitch. Some of those people that showed me the ropes of Dwarf Fortress I would consider as friends, and the Dwarf Fortress community is great for this.
In order to appeal to a newbie, a game doesn't necessarily have to be accessible. At this point we will have to just assume that this is still the direction the devs wanna go, and that the community aspect, and eventually the modding community will play a role in bonding the players that chose to play Dwarf Fortress.
How do you save the newbies? Well you don't, they don't need to be saved from this game. The interface could be more intuitive, the menu more fleshed out, some systems reworked (i'm looking at you millitary system). But Ultimately the choice of a player to "stick" with this game only depends on how much time are they allowing themselves to fail before they succeed. This is a parameter that was very common on older gen games (i'm talking 1980 nintendo and arcade games) because of the limitations of the hardware at the time. Starting over a game because you failed was normal because there were no ways to save the game back then, and that also kept people playing over and over again so as to "complete" the game, with no obvious hints or tips about what went wrong in their last run. Now Dwarf Fortress has the benefit of being an "endless" game, especially fortress mode, and it is a scary proposition. The only measure of how successfull a fort is is how many years did it last, and comparing that with how long the last fort you played lasted. That's also a subjective measure considering the embark would not be exactly the same, and depending on wether both forts are on the same world or not, the previous fort's dwarves could be the new fort's migrants. Hopefully, the player is gonna progress from learning about the game's mechanic as they go, and it would help their forts last.
The issue that new people have with Dwarf Fortress is hinging on that instant gratification that they get from other games, that is very common in newer games that are very popular. Dwarf Fortress have to rely on players having their own goals, and setting new goals as they go. And these two ways to play games appeal to different people. Other games have succeeded in bridging that gap, by having set objectives, timed events, achievements, side missions... all these things can help new players that are missing a goal feel more "involved" in the Dwarf Fortress experience.
I think I drove a few points home, thanks for reading me if you got this far, have a :cookie: on me. Bay12Forums Strike the earth!