Bay 12 Games Forum

Quote from: Naturegirl1999 on January 26, 2021, 08:10:41 pm

Quote from: Dunamisdeos on January 25, 2021, 09:43:22 pm

Quote from: Iä! RIAKTOR! on January 24, 2021, 07:28:27 am

Quote from: A_Curious_Cat on January 23, 2021, 07:06:10 pm

Quote from: Iä! RIAKTOR! on January 23, 2021, 03:03:40 pm

Quote from: mightymushroom on April 11, 2020, 07:11:55 am

Quote from: gchristopher on February 06, 2020, 10:53:59 pm

If the queen happens to cut herself on some cutlery or something accidentally and is bleeding, be sure to kiss the wound to make it all better.

-1 from me. I may be in the minority, but I'd rather not have vampire Misty.

Quote from: Enemy post on April 11, 2020, 10:15:26 am

-1 from me as well.

Quote from: Mephansteras on April 11, 2020, 10:28:19 am

-1 from me as well

Quote from: Ultimuh on April 11, 2020, 10:45:24 pm

-1 from me as well.
This ISG is called The Littlest Cheesemaker, not The Littlest Vampire Cheesemaker.
Jokes aside, I feel that her becoming a vampire just wouldn't feel right storywise. It would be jumping the shark at this point.

+5 from me, she will have a lot of time for training her cheesemaker skill as vampire, also she will become Overseer

-6.  We don’t want her stuck in a room full of levers for all eternity.

+7, she can break doors in tantrum or just go out when will be her turn for become Overseer.

- (N+1) where N= the previous vote. MISTY IS A WHOLESOME TREASURE AND SHOULD NOT BE DAMAGED BY AN UNENDING THIRST FOR INNOCENT BLOOD, OR WORSE, BEING A DF OVERSEER.

+(v+1) where v is the number that the previous post subtracted

Her becoming a vampire will allow for cheese making practice, also she can subsist on the blood of the animals she milks for the cheese

while (Misty !== Vampire) {
  // disallow vampire
}

Good: All creatures restricted to spawn in good biomes https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Surroundings#Good

Evil: All creatures restricted to spawn in evil biomes https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Surroundings#Evil, bogeyman, nightmares, blind cave ogres, goblins, trolls

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

demons

and probably more. You can just check raw files for [EVIL] token.

Maybe when all the world is consumed by necromancers, the world is magically reset, deleting all necromancers and their influence(sites, slabs, books with necromantic secrets, experiments, everything). The starting population of civilized creatures will be placed back into the capitals of their respective civs and the world starts anew. Probably implied to be Armok’s doing, though this is never explicitly mentioned(perhaps saying that a “divine force has wiped the world clean of all necromantic influence”).

Honestly, this may be a little off topic, but I feel like necromancers shouldn’t all just go out and build towers and stuff like that. Learning the secrets of life and death is just, that. You read a book and you get them. There theoretically shouldn’t be anything that changes a necromancer’s personality, but that is what we see right now, with them having personalities that just make them shitty people(like wanting to conquer the world). Perhaps some necromancers, when they turn, hide their identities and decide to live quietly in a town until they are found. After all, they have become immortals, what else could they want? I’m sure not everybody wants to rule the world. Right???

Optimally, the game should be able to adapt to whatever magic/technology/mechanics are made, and find its own ”balance” that way. This can be done by actors simulating a few strategies and using the one that works best. This mirrors the real world in that major advancements can be done, but eventually are counteracted. Sometimes, the best strategy may very well be to just adapt that advancement in return. Toady has talked about this (in one of the DF talks, I believe). Something like ”magic worlds are inherently imbalanced, but as long as both sides have the magic it should be fine”.

The problem with necromancers, is that using necromancy gives a clear military advantage, but both sides can’t have necromantic powers. The ”good guys” can’t get necromancy as that would turn it into a crapsack world nonetheless, which shouldn’t always happen, and current necromancers have no reasons to turn against each other, being seemingly driven only by a hatred for the living rather than having a wish for world domination. The living also can’t rise up once necromancers have won. The consequence of this is that all worlds with necromancers will sooner or later fall to the armies of undead, and then become stale, the only balance met is that of stagnation.

So how do you solve this?
You could nerf the necromancers, but then that only decreases the likelyhood that they will achieve world domination. It will still happen in older worlds, as they will have more chances during worldgen in those, just as the chance of getting a Nat 20 is higher the more times you roll a die, even if you switch from a D20 to a D100. Nerfing them too much also removes them as a threat for the player to deal with which would be a shame.
Alternatively, you could allow the world to return to ”normal” by having the necromancers and their underlings fight internally. Perhaps the necromancers really want world dominion? Then you could have late-game necromancer entities replacing the mortal ones. The undead lieutenants may also want some share of the power, or maybe the technically mortal experiment populations could rise up against their overlords, wanting to reestablish the old world. You could even go as far as having some natural counter against necromancers, like divine summoning of new populations of dead races to fight back, or anti-necromancers. But these counters must act after the necromancer apocalypse, and be able to arise spontaneously, otherwise the main problem of necromancer stagnation will not have been dealt with.

Quote from: Iä! RIAKTOR! on January 25, 2021, 08:54:18 am

Sorry for curse word, but game really not need any balance at all.

That has nothing to do with what I wrote.

The game does need balance, and real life has balance, too.

Quote from: Iä! RIAKTOR! on January 25, 2021, 04:25:50 am

No damned balance for this game! Real life has no balance, so why magic world can need it?

I'm just going to rehash my response to this nonsense argument that I used the last time you trotted it out:

Quote from: NW_Kohaku on December 25, 2020, 02:44:41 am

Quote from: Iä! RIAKTOR! on December 23, 2020, 03:16:01 pm

Toady not need to do any balancing. Real world have no game balance at all.

While partly true, it's also kind of a false metaphor.  Real-world people react to the "imbalance" of their "game", and that tends to create a new equilibrium we would consider "balance".

To give a very generalized summary of military technology, the Middle Ages were "balanced" around castles and wearing heavy metal armor favoring the super-wealthy that could afford such things dramatically over masses of peasants, and then cannons "ruined the balance" of castles and metal armor, only to create a situation where you tended to have a "rock-paper-scissors" dynamic between musket infantry, cavalry, and cannon units where armor was useless for a few hundred years before that "balance" was ruined by technology like machine guns and tanks in World War One.

In fact, in one game I was playing recently, they included a real-life US Army TRADOC (Training and Doctrine Command) manual that they said inspired the balance of the game, and sure enough, on one of the first pages talking about how infantry should be expected to be carrying anti-tank weaponry, they straight-up include a rock-paper-scissors "balance" of modern military units diagram in a discussion of how there "is no 'ultimate' or invincible weapon. The modern battlefield is a contest of measures and countermeasures which, taken together, and on balance will determine the outcome of battle."

The problem is that, unlike real life, there is a limited capacity to adapt new measures in this game to changes to the meta.  That's why people complain about game balance in games, since you're not allowed to invent your way out of problems the way that real people do by the nature of the game's restrictions.

Not sure if allowed to link to other sites but its the wiki so hopefully its okay.

You can find pages for full lists of entity, creature and profession/skill tokens: https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/Category:DF2014:Tokens

Hope that in some way helps!