Bay 12 Games Forum

Has the LITTERSIZE tag been re-added to the game? Or is it still removed?

The only way I can think to test would be to give a creature a huge littersize, then play for a year or so to see if they have 2 offspring or 200. Please save me a few hours.

Every time I go to test something, I end up playing for 5 hours and don't want to stop.

Aside from, "Have some discipline, bro," how do you handle it? Just get it right the first time, so there's no testing necessary? I've taken to modding in cheats so I can avoid actually playing to get to the stuff I need to test.

Sorry for the trolly subject line 

I think it's a change to which older player will have to adjust, but I don't think it makes anything more difficult or annoying.

For example, Tarn and Sal (just to use two fantasy-sounding names) decide on a host of mods they like for a succession game, and Tarn goes first.
Used to be, Tarn would make sure the save he sent Sal had the mods applied to the raws in the save folder. You know that drill.
Now they're playing v50, so Tarn takes the mods they're going to use, and makes a copy of those mods, editing the info files so the mods have an identifier, allowing both of them to know at a glance whether the right mods are loaded or not. AFAIK, load order doesn't matter, as long as the mods don't overlap the objects they affect.
Tarn sends the unique mod(s) along with the save file, so Sal can install the bloodline game's mod(s) when starting her leg of the game. They're both using the same exact mods without any risk of the mods updating and splitting their experience.

Or, Tarn can combine all of the mods they're going to share for this game into one new mod. No harder than combining mods in v47. In games like Conan Exiles this is commonplace, where a server will amalgamize and customize some mods for a server mod that probably holds no interest for anyone not on the server. In DFv50, you can reduce a dozen mods to one single mod for a similar purpose, and without any real increase in tedium.

The biggest drawback I can think of is that instead of saying, "put this in your saves folder and start playing," which is insanely easy, you have to tell all following players to, "put this in your saves folder, then install this game's mod I put on the workshop." I call that a small price to pay for reducing mod complexity, while increasing mod compatibility and wieldiness.

caveat: I haven't done this and tested this, so there might be a couple additional steps involved, especially when it comes to manipulating your loaded mods folder contents, like maybe you have to create a dummy world with the new mod installed, just to get it loaded before you load the shared save, IDK, but it's doable and not that much of a hassle.

Quote

one can use [LOG_CURRENT_ENTRY], which logs the full contents of the object in question to logs\current_entry.txt. This can be useful to make sure that the patch is doing what you think it is.

Thanks for answering part of my question, I appreciate it.

v50.04, no mods; got an expert gem cutter in the migration. 6th gem was a masterwork large gem. Not sure what'll happen after another 200 gems, we'll see.

Edit: 2 more large gems in not much time. Seems about as likely as it was in v47.

I forgot to mention the following token:

[LOG_CURRENT_ENTRY]

It works for all object types that SELECT and CUT work with, and prints the entire entry that contains it into a file. Just in case you want to know exactly what SELECT_CREATURE is doing.

Does this produce an error log? How is the token used? Does it go before or after the file's OBJECT token? Where is the file? I'm guessing it would be in the mod folder, but maybe it's in the installed mods folder version of the mod, or maybe in its own special corner somewhere. edit: found it!

The hierarchy is new in v50 and is exactly as you see in-game: mods are loaded in order, top to bottom. You can change the load order on save load. There are mod info tokens allowing you to force certain mods to be loaded before or after others. Raws within mods are loaded in alphabetical order. Nothing more to it than that.

When I was referring to the hierarchy, I had my macro lens on. Not file hierarchy, but hierarchy of tokens within one entry in the raw. For instance:
[PLANT:MUSHROOM_HELMET_PLUMP] --- Top level
[NAME:plump helmet][NAME_PLURAL:plump helmets][ADJ:plump helmet] --- 1st level subordinate to the top level
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:STRUCTURAL:STRUCTURAL_PLANT_TEMPLATE] --- probably also 1st level sub
[MATERIAL_VALUE:2] --- 2nd level, subordinate to 1st level
At least, I'm guessing that's true. If I wanted to change the MATERIAL_VALUE here, I'd need to know that it's "within" that material template. I'm just inferring that it is, since I can't find anything that explains the hierarchy. The indentation helps, but there are a lot of raws without any indentation, or with spacing that may or may not be indicative of something.

Also, the problems with bone trousers you're getting are explained on the wiki page:

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Craftsmen can make this item from bones. Randomly generated outfits don't include bone armor.

Sorry that I wasn't clear. I'm not at all having a problem with bone armor not showing up in randomly generated outfits. Yes, I mentioned that it wasn't showing up, but just as a detail to confirm that the random outfit aspect is working as expected. The problem I'm having with bone trousers is that the game turns them into jagged bone greaves (or some combination of adjective + not the object it should be) when a save is loaded.

The problems with reloading the world causing off-by-one errors or whatever is probably due to CUT_X being done in the wrong order and thus duplicated raws (what y'all are calling "list shifting", it's been a known thing for years lol) happening, which is odd. Perhaps you're putting your mod before the vanilla items in the load order, which would cause obvious problems.

Obvious enough that even I figured out I should always load my mod last.

Here's something I used for testing. Feel free to fire it up, save, and load to see what happens to the caps:
item_helm

[OBJECT:ITEM]

[CUT_ITEM_HELM:ITEM_HELM_CAP]

[ITEM_HELM:ITEM_HELM_CAP]
[NAME:cap:caps]
[METAL_ARMOR_LEVELS]
[LAYER:OVER]
[COVERAGE:50]
[LAYER_SIZE:10]
[LAYER_PERMIT:15]
[MATERIAL_SIZE:1]
[SOFT]
[LEATHER]
[BARRED] - this has been added
[SCALED] - this has been added
[HARD]
[METAL]
[STRUCTURAL_ELASTICITY_WOVEN_THREAD]
[SHAPED]
It actually works far better than what I expected, because it adds the option to make bone/shell caps to the appropriate menus in the appropriate workshop, without anything else required. I'm totally mystified as to why this causes such problems after the dwarves make the item and the game is loaded from a save.

What I've done to test this:

• First, I tried doing a SELECT_ITEM and then adding the two tokens. Didn't work at all, so switched to this CUT-and-replace method instead.
• New world. Activated this mod, no other mods. Last in load order.
• Build a butcher, craftdwarf 'shop, leather 'shop. Butcher a yak.
• Make a leather cap, and make a bone cap. Save and exit to main menu while the caps are easy for me to find again, in the workshops.
• Load the game, check the workshops. Each cap, both the bone and the leather cap, has been changed to a [adjective] + bone/leather + non-cap item (e.g. "rounded yak leather helm").

It's consistent and repeatable. Either I've done something wrong (not sure how, the item_helm.txt file is the only file in the objects folder), or I've discovered an unexpected behavior that is worth documenting.