Bay 12 Games Forum

So... a pack of giant tortoises parked themselves on my map and promptly retracted into their shells after my dogs wandered too close. Months later they're still turtling in the same spot (apparently a bug), and it dawned on me that they might make really nice target practice for marksdwarves with wooden bolts (which don't seem to penetrate the shell very well). Unfortunately, I can't get Urist McMarksdwarf to cooperate.

Station order - nothing, tortoise isn't considered hostile (which seems true enough).

Kill order after pitting the tortoise behind fortifications - Urist idles with no valid reachable target.

Kill order in the open - parks himself on the same tile as the tortoise, then empties his quiver into the ground (100% miss rate), then bashes the poor beast with his crossbow until its shell breaks off and he can bonk it on the head. The miss rate is just fine (means the target lives longer), but the bashing instead of reloading is a deal-breaker. Once he's attacking, Urist won't stop even if I cancel the kill order, so even micromanagement wouldn't work.

Is there any other method I should try that I haven't thought of?

40.13, if that matters (not in a hurry to deal w/ new emotions till they get debugged a bit more).

I've been modding in use of borax as a special flux (for working with gold alloys, among other things), and have run into a strange problem: now that I actually care about its existence, I've never found an embark that actually has borax deposits, nor any parent civ that has access to it. While it's possible my changes to raws broke something, I don't think that's the problem: I didn't modify the raws for borax stone, and if I drop a borax stone into a fort using dfhack, the dorfs can process it to borax flux in a kiln, as desired.

So... before worrying further about my raws, I'd like to ask: has anyone else ever seen borax in an embark?

OK, so I was trying to drain my embark's volcano following these instructions (dump water from above, let the obsidan cave in and be destroyed by the SMR below).

I channeled down to a nearby aquifer, built an aqueduct whose spout hung 2-z over the center of the volcano, and connected the two with several pumps:

╔═════════
║.++++++%%▼
╚═════════

The first 1/7 water hit, and caused a cave-in as expected. Great magma sea discovered.

The second 1/7 hit, and caused another cave-in. Raw adamantine, tons of gems, and a few ores discovered.

The third 1/7 caused a cave-in, but also formed a block of obsidian that plugged the water spout. "Eh?" I thought, "That's weird" What's even more weird, though: the tile below that obsidian block *also* contains obsidian. In fact, a column of obsidian extends 160+ z-levels down to the very bottom of the magma sea, with just one empty tile between it and the semi-molten rock.

I just don't see how this could be possible, especially since I only managed to pump about 4 units of water out of the spigot before it plugged.

Save uploaded here, with the spigot loaded with water and ready to start dropping blocks of obsidian to the bottom. Just unpause and watch the fun. You might need to turn the pump back on if the water in the pipe isn't enough to trigger the bug.

Any idea what's going on there?

I recently embarked with the goal to have them up and running before the first dwarven caravan. Parent civ had no coal, embark had very few trees, so metalworking would not be an option until I had access to magma. I don't really like exploits, and 6 months (and 7 dorfs) is nowhere near enough to mess with large-scale power generation, let alone a magma pump stack. I had been using wheelbarrows to haul magma-filled minecarts, but it was really (really incredibly) filddly getting minecarts to go where they belonged; somehow the wheelbarrow always got lost so Urist McWeakling ends up trying to haul a magma-filled minecart 150 z-levels by hand. No good.

After much !!SCIENCE!! and one incinerated manager, I finally got everything working reliably. This method has worked very smoothly for both forts I tried it with (other than the idiot engraver who decided to sleep on the tracks and got run over by the first magma-filled minecart). My current fort had six magma-powered workshops running before the first dwarven caravan. Labor requirements are low enough that I was also able to take care of food production, dig out a good chunk of fort, build the depot, and create a trap hall (stun-bridges and lever-enabled spikes) to soften up the first winter siege before sending in my two military dwarves (who embarked with enough skill to take care of themselves if I could make them weapons and armor in time).

Update: I found two bug fixes for the below. First, in Phase IV, you have to dip the first minecart *after* filling the channel with magma. Otherwise, it will be impossible to dislodge for some reason. Second, if you channel out a bigger space for the pumped magma, you can dip more carts between pump runs. Dipping only works with 6/7 or 7/7, so to dip 4 carts in one go you need 6 tiles of 7/7 magma to start (otherwise you risk having a cart hit 5/7 and going away empty). 8 carts would need 14 tiles.

I have temperature enabled, but carrying and pushing magma-filled carts hasn't melted any hands yet. If hend-melting ever became a problem, "hot" routes could be replaced by a system of stockpiles and wheelbarrows and would work semi-OK (other than the tendency to lose wheelbarrows and the need to walk twice as far to fetch them).

Embark supplies needed:
- 3 garnierite ore (or 10 nickel bars); use iron if nickel is unavailable.
- coal (if possible, otherwise just use wood for charcoal)
- 4 sand bags
- 2 picks
- anvil
- 2 skilled miners is really helpful
- wood

Phase I:

Set both miners to work digging out a few rooms. This should produce fire-safe stone and also lets your dorfs start moving supplies underground to safety. Have your carpenter make a wooden door. Have your furnace operator build a wood furnace and make a charcoal, then use that to jump-start coke-making and smelting. If no coal, then send out a woodcutter and make lots of charcoal instead.

Phase II:

Tell your glassmaker to make a green glass tube, enormous green glass corkscrew, green glass blocks, and green glass grate, and task your metalcrafter with making five nickel minecarts. Also have your carpenter make a wooden minecart.

Meanwhile, assign your faster miner (we'll call him Urist McMagma) to dig a passage away from the fort and then start channeling a downward spiral like this:

z = 0 ################# #▼  ╫ --> to fort    ################# ####

z = -1    #### #▲## #▼##    ####

z = -2    #### ####    #▲▼# ####

z = -3    #### ##▼#    ##▲# ####

z = -4    #### #▼▲#    #### ####

...

Install the door where shown and lock it behind Urist McMagma so he doesn't try to turn back too early (or try to take over Urist McDigger's normal fort-digging). You could probably use burrows as well, but the door will keep him from taking food/drink breaks too soon (and will be useful later as well). He'll make fast progress because he only digs one tile per z-level, so 150 z-levels is similar work to digging out a 12x12 square).

Make sure to enable Urist McMagma's masonry labor, because he's almost guaranteed to breach a cavern or two. Whenever he does, just back him up a z-level or two to floor over the down-ramp and re-seal the caverns; then dig a side tunnel and resume the spiral somewhere better:

Yikes! Poked a hole in the cavern ceiling! ############ #.▲#########    ############ ############

==>

Sealed and resumed digging (further over, with solid rock below) ############ #+▲       ▼#    ############ ############

Meanwhile, one level below... Sorry, Mr. flying FB, no lunch for you! #####·#·#### #·······##▲#    #··F··#·##▼# ##··#·######

If you're lucky, Urist McMagma will channel through the roof of the magma sea. If not (he hits semi-molten rock) then you'll have to sent out side tunnels to find it. You may have to let him out a time or two for food/drink trips (but make sure he's hungry and thirsty to save rount trips). Usually he'll find magma before Spring is over, even if a few side tunnels were involved.

Don't forget to floor over the magma! You don't want any magma crabs or fire imps to wander upstairs in search of entertainment.

Phase III:

Create a stockpile (furniture, trap components, and blocks), and limit its materials to nickel and green glass. Create a new minecart route, with one stop and no departure condition, and set to take nickel and green glass items from the stockpile.

Meanwhile, before you let Urist McMagma head topside for a well-earned break, make him dig out the dipper itself:

z = 4 ▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒      ▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▼═≡▼▒ ▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒ ▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒ ▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒ ▒▒▼▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒ ▒▒▲▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒ ▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒

z = 3 ▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒      ▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▼▲▒▒▲▒ ▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒║▒ ▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒≡▒║▒ ▒▒║▒▒▒▒▒▒║▒║▒ ▒▼▲══════╩═╝▒ ▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒ ▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒

z = 2 ▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒      ▒≡════▼▲▒▒▒▒▒ ▒║▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒ ▒║   ▼▒▒▒▒▒▒▒ ▒×▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒ ▒▲▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒ ▒+▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒ ▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒

z = 1 ▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒      ▒▒▒▒▒▒▲▒▒▒▒▒▒ ▒▒▒▒▒▒%▒▒▒▒▒▒ ▒▒▒▒▒▲%▒▒▒▒▒▒ ▒▒▒▒▒▒#▒▒▒▒▒▒ ▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒ ▒▲7▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒ ▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒

z = 0 ▒▒▒▒▒▒7777777 ▒▒▒▒▒77777777 ▒▒▒7777∙77777 ▒▒77777777777 ▒▒77777777777 ▒▒7777777∙777 ▒▒77777777777 ▒▒77777777777

If he's still willing to work, ennable mechanics and have him build the track stops also; all should be highest friction, and the stop on z=3 should also dump south. The green grate on z=1 is the channeled hole to magma that the pump will eventually draw from; floor it over with a nearby stone to keep the fire snakes at z=0 from causing any trouble while we get things into place.

Once Urist McMagma has finished his work, unlock the door and designate the entire spiral, plus the dipper paths, for track carving. By now the summer immigrants should have arrived and can be conscripted into the engraving.
While the track carving is in progress, send Urist McMagma back for one more important detail: every 25 z-levels or so, dig a notch out of the spiral and carve track to make a runaway cart siding:

z = 1      #### #▲## #▼##    #### ####

z = 0      #### ####    #▲▼# #╨## ####

z = -1    #### ##▼#    ##▲# #### ####

A cart being guided will make the corner no problem, but runaway carts will go straight and get stuck in the notch. This is crucial because the average dwarf's attention span is somewhat less than 50 steps (less if they're tired/hungry/etc). They have a bad habit of just dropping their current task and wandering away (often to do another task), and a runaway minecart full of magma is just asking for !!FUN!! (literally). Placing these runaway cart sidings at regular intervals gives convenient spots for waypoints in the minecart route, and also catches runaways before they cause too much damage or pick up enough speed to spill. Strangely, that same dwarf that would have dropped the cart halfway through a 150-z guiding job will usually pick up all 6 25-z guiding jobs in a row. Go figure.

Phase IV:

Once the engraving is done, extend the route for the wooden minecart to end at the dumping track stop at z=3. Make sure to designate a stockpile (set to take only from links) in the drop zone so your dorfs don't try to haul everything back topside as soon as it lands.

Once the minecarts and glass components have been delivered, lock in the lucky delivery dorf and enable mechanics, architecture, and masonry. He can build the pump, then deconstruct floor that covers the magma and replace it with the glass grate. Before running the pump, he should also place one nickel minecart in the pump's output tile to prime the system. That way, running the pump for a bit leaves you with a minecart full of magma *and* 7/7 depth in the dipping tile.

The key dipping feature is that 3-z straight ramp. The minecart to be dipped will be pushed west from the yellow track stop on z=4, and will travel one tile of flat before going down a 3-z ramp. If the flat track is missing, there are corners, or if the drop is fewer than 3-z, the cart won't have enough momentum to dislodge a full minecart stuck in the magma that will be waiting at the bottom.

Now you're ready to start dipping in earnest.

Define four identical minecart routes, each with two stops. Place Stop 1 at the yellow '×' on z=2 (guide south immediately always), and Place stop 2 at the track stop on z=4 (no depart condition). Name them "1 M Prep" through "4 M Prep" and assign the non-submerged nickel minecarts to them; we'll deal with the cart currently sitting in the magma in a moment. Urist McSlave should immediately place all four accessible minecarts on the track and guide them up to the top of the dipper.

Next, create a set of four identical routes, this time with three stops each. Stop 1 sits at the track stop on z=4 (push west immediately always), Stop 2 sits at the track stop on z=2 (guide south immediately always), and Stop 3 sits at the yellow '×' on z=2 (no depart condition). Call these ones "1 M Dipper" through "4 M Dipper."

Next, create a "5 M Dipper" which is nearly identical to the previous four, but missing the stop at z=4 (so it starts at the track stop on z=2). Assign the submerged minecart to that route. Also assign a minecart to "1 M Dipper." Note that the overlapping stops mean minecart 1 is exactly where it should be, so Urist will immediately push the cart down the ramp where it can dislodge the full one. The full one will conveniently land on the track stop it was assigned to, and Urist will immediately guide it to its final destination. Once that happens, add the missing stop to "5 M Dipper" so it matches the other four. We need five of this route because one minecart is always assigned to it but stuck in the magma.

At this point you have two carts full of magma sitting next to the spiral ramp, one empty one stuck in the 5/7 magma, and two empties still waiting at the top. Assign Urist to the pump for a bit (filling both cart and channel), then assign two more carts in turn to unused dipper routes (the full ones will remain where they are, at the endpoints of their respective dipper routes). This should leave you with four magma-filled carts next to the spiral, plus one empty stuck in 5/7 magma. If you forgot to refill the channel before sending another cart in, just assign the cart to one of the prep routes to place it for another attempt (but run the pump first this time!).

Phase V:

To bring magma topside, create four identical routes whose starting point is the yellow '×' on z=2 (guide south immediately always), with waypoints at all of the notches along the spiral (each guiding the appropriate direction), and ending at the top of the spiral by the door (no depart condition). Call them "1 M Up" through "4 M Up" and assign each of the four full carts to a route. Unlock the door and a swarm of haulers will start guiding them upward, 25-z at a time, until they reach the top.

From there, create temporary routes for your destinations, each with a single stop at a dumping track stop. Assign a cart to each route and watch the dwarves carry the carts to the track stop.

To return the empty carts, create---you guessed it---four more identical minecart routes whose starting point is by the door, stopping at every waypont notch along the spiral, and ending at the track stop on z=4 (no depart condition). Call them "1 M Down" through "4 M Down." Once a minecart is empty, assign it to an unused "Down" route and it will be quickly guided back to its starting position, ready for a new round of dipping.