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Topics - Jiri Petru

Pages: [1]
1
I believe we are at a point where, using DF Hack and the power of overlays, we can redesign DF's user interface to something sensible and make the game actually playable for normal people. To kickstart the discussion, I'm posting my thoughts on UI and the following slightly modified version of DF 34.11. The purpose of the thread is simply to give some spotlight to fascinating possibilities and tools that have shamefully been mostly overlooked. Please note none of it is my work, I'm not a coder. And none of it is new - it's just a combination of tools that have been available for quite some time, namely falconne's DFhack plugins and the Mouse Fortress tool.

DOWNLOAD HERE

To run it, open Dwarf Fortress and then run the file /mouse/launch.exe.



What you can do:

Camera Controls
- Use mouse wheel to change Z-levels (zoom has been remapped to F1 and F2). To move the map, use either the traditional arrow keys, or left-click and move the cursor.

Viewing and Selecting
- Hover cursor on anything and it will tell you what it is in the right menu.
- Left-click on anything you want to select, be it a building, dwarf, animal, statue, whatever. If there's more things on top of each other, simply click more times. ONE CLICK TO RULE THEM ALL. Falconne has thus eliminated the single worst feature of Dwarf Fortress, the infamous LKVQT five-different-modes-of-selection system.

Building
- Ignore the game's cluttered main menu. Simply right-click and choose what you want to build. Click where to place it. Things have been regrouped to be more logical.

Other Tasks
- The right-click menu has all functionality of the original game's main menu. (Not much thought has been given to its organisation yet)

Labour Assignment
- Don't assign jobs to your dwarves. Just ignore it. The "autolabor" plugin handles everything, turning labours on and off as needed. The whole supercomplicated feature, which required the use of external slightly less complicated tools such as Dwarf Therapist, is thus eliminated from the game. You won't miss it. (Experimental).


Read below for my thoughts on what more could easily be possible.



So that was just a demonstration, very weak and not very useful yet. But I'm fairly certain we could build proper UI overlays, bypassing DF's native UI for the most part. The power comes from two things:
- DFHack can manipulate the game directly.
- Programs like Mouse Fortress can send keypresses to the game, allowing you to e.g. build anything through their menus. More importantly, they can send commands to DFHack, meaning anything DFHack can do can be put into a graphical interface. And DFHack can do an awful lot of things.

Mouse Fortress isn't super useful simply because the right-click pop-up menu isn't very pleasant to use. But a coder shouldn't have any trouble creating a proper menu (with graphics and buttons and texts of various sizes and colours) in a separate windows that would overlay Dwarf Fortress. Players could then control most of the game by clicking on menus and buttons, just like in any other game. This is already technically possible, it's just that noone has done it.

Once we have proper menus with integrated DFHack controls, we can focus on the development of plugins that would bypass the game's most blatant UI problems. Falconne has alread done an amazing job, and I have no doubt more can be done. To kickstart the discussion, I would like to ask the DFHack crowd if the following can be done?


(1) Can we bypass zones?

A huge problem of Dwarf Fortress is that is has too many ways to build things. The distintion between workshops, furniture-designed rooms, zones etc. is horribly confusing. Ideally, the inner workings of the game should be hidden to the user who should be able to simply click "Build > Bedroom", "Build > Farm Plot", "Build > Hospital" and then click to plop them on the map. Zones are the great troublemaker here, because you need to build them first and then set their properties, which is counterintuitive like hell. Can we somehow bypass them?

By that I mean, can we create a "Build a hospital" command that would allow the user to designate a specific area, and then feed this data to DFHack which would tell the game something to the effect: "Build a zone in these squares, then turn on the Hospital toggle". I have high hopes that this would be possible.


(2) Can we bypass furniture placement?

The same issue - you can't "Build a bedroom", you must place a bed and then designate a bedroom from it. Horrible. So can we somehow via DFHack magic create bedrooms (and offices, and barracks etc.) without any furniture? The player would then place furniture in those empty rooms as needed. Basically just turn the process around. Who knows Prison Architect knows what I'm talking about.

This might be more problematic because things like bedrooms might be tied to furniture in the game's code. I don't know. But if we cannot build empty unfurnished rooms, can we at least use DFHack to "Build bedroom" in a certain area, upon which DFHack would order a bed to be brought up (or created), place it somewhere in the chosen area, then automatically turn the bedroom option on and flow it to the previously specified size?

If we can get everything to work according to the "Build > ROOM NAME" schematic, the game will instantly be 100 % more playable.


(3) Better Stairs

When I build up stairs, can you designate down stairs on the square above automatically? And vice versa? I want to build stars just with one click.

Leave the Up/Down Stair command untouched for people who like stair shafts. They will have to overwrite the automated second designation, but seeing as it's the same amount of clicks as designating stairs on an empty square, no harm done.

====

Another venue for exploration is automation. We can develop plugins like autolabor to completely automate some features and eliminate them from the user experience (I love autolabor). In a similar fashion, we could considerably streamline and simplify the military system, the burrows and alerts etc.

For example: have the game automatically and without the user's input designate a "Safe Zone" burrow according to some easy criteria - like the burrow automatically contains all meeting areas. Create an "Panic!" button that will automatically activate all military and send the civilians to the safe zones. Put it in the main menu. Voilą! Players can now call emergency shutdowns without having to learn and understand the burrow system.

The military can be redesigned to resemble the old system where a dwarf was either a civilian, or a soldier. Full Stop. No need to fuck around with schedules and activations. Just have a "Put this guy in/out of the military" button and forget about everything else. DFHack can place dwarf in squads automatically. In the background, use some predefined schedule that would have these guys train normally. Use predefined, sensible uniforms. The player has a couple of buttons like "Draft this guy > Make into Melee Soldier", "Draft this guy > Make into archer", and that's it, everything else is handled automatically.

For some reason, most if not all tool development has been focused on making the game even more complex and giving the already overloaded player more and more options. We can instead limit the player's options, cut feature bloat, simplify... streamline. Because I believe that if you cut half of the options from the UI and automate them instead, Dwarf Fortress will be a much better game.

I know this is will sound problematic to expert players - but don't forget that superusers will always have the option to use the vanilla's keyboard interface to do whatever they want. We can create a simplified, automated UI for more casual players and beginners. It's not mutually exclusive.

As I've said, the purpose of this thread is to inspire discussion and hopefully the development of new UI-focused tools that will finally make Dwarf Fortess into a game a normal, non-autist person can play. Especially when you combine these with the current graphic improvements and overlays. Unfortunately I can't code so these won't be coming from me. I can only try to come up with ideas.

I hope this has given you some food for thought.


EDIT: There's already an old interface thread that has about 20 pages of thoughts: Total Interface Overhaul. But only now have we actually the technical power to implement it.
EDIT2: Sorry for spelling mistakes. Written in a hurry. Will fix once I have more time.

2
Other Games / Tell me about game translations in your country
« on: March 16, 2011, 05:10:21 pm »
Hi,

I know these forums have a large international community, and I'd like to use the fact to ask you bit about how games get translated in your country. I've been translating games professionally to Czech for a couple of years, and right now I'm writing a diploma thesis on Czech game localisation scene. I was thinking it would be nice to have a chapter on "how things look like elsewhere around the world" - nothing fancy, basically just a bonus chapter at the end, because I can't really make a proper research (nor is it in the scope of my thesis). So that's where you come in!

Could you briefly describe how do games get translated into your language? (Globally, most games are translated from either English or Japanese). When I say "briefly", I want to say even a single short paragraph would be very helpful.

1. Professional translations from the publishing companies - what percentage of games get them? Do they have the same release date as the original game?

2. Is there an amateur scene of fans who translate for free? If yes, how big or lively is it? Can you provide a link for a central community hub or something?

(Kudos to Deon who already helped me in PM)

Of course, thanks for your help and time!

3
DF Modding / Markus' graphics for unchanged raws [31.18]
« on: December 02, 2010, 05:09:45 pm »
I love playing with graphics but I hate having to modify the raws. All the current major graphic packs (Phoebus, Mayday, Ironhand) require you to use their raws, which means two unpleasant things:
- Every time a new DF version comes out, you have to wait for updated raws
- You can't ever switch to a different pack, which gets complicated if you (like myself) like to keeping your old saves and revisiting them months later

Wiki doesn't offer many graphics that don't modify the raws so I made my own. It's a composite of sprites from many other tilesets, I haven't drawn anything. Credits to the original authors, most notably Guybrush and Phoebus.

The tileset is fully adapted to the changes in 31.18 - eg. it has sprites for night creatures, bogeymen, it correctly shows the new items (cauldrons, ladles) and it's adapted to the bracelets/earrings/rings change. Please let me know if you happen on any tile that shows something else than it should.

It's designed to keep the text readable as much as possible so it doesn't change most of the special characters with acutes, tildas, umlauts, etc. It does change some, but only the most needed ones (eg. levers).

Here it is:



To use the tileset, simply save it to your data/art folder, give the file some reasonable name, then go to data/init/init.txt and edit the settings accordingly (= enable graphics, set this as the tileset to use).

It doesn't include creature graphics like dwarves and animals. Grab those from Phoebus' or Mayday's.

Here is a simple screenshot that doesn't really show much:

4
DF General Discussion / Post your real-life embark pictures!
« on: August 14, 2010, 05:03:07 pm »
Inspired by the Cook-out thread, I didn't want to derail it.

I'm interested in what embark conditions do DF fans live! Open Google Maps, find your home and post the nearest Google Streetview or Panoramio location here (there is a "Link" command, upper right). You don't have to tell us which of the homes is yours!  :P

Feel free to comment upon other people's embarks, envy them, pity them, whatever. Have fun!

Mine embark conditions here!

5
I love food. That's why the current DF implementation always irked me. The idea that cooks would prepare finished meals which you then store in barrels feels so... wrong and illogical. I wouldn't store my roasted chicken with delicious potatoes in a barrel and eat it half a year later, no sir! Besides, being able to sell this chicken to a caravan wouldn't work well with the upcoming caravan arc. I don't want dwarves storing finished stews in a barrel, I want them storing onions, potatoes and salted meat, and preparing the stew only minutes before eating it. No more cooking steaks, stews, etc., and storing them in stockpiles for years... nor selling them to caravans!

In short: dwarves shouldn't cook and store huge piles of finished meals, they should store raw ingredients and cook only just before eating.

While the change is mostly just cosmetic, it would have many consequences in how stockpiles and workshops are handled. The actual implementation is more complicated and open to discussion (this is the opportunity for you!). Obviously, foods could be eaten raw and some raw ingredients could be preserved indefinitely even without cooking (smoked meat, salted fish...). Also, when it finally gets to cooking, the ways could vary. Individual cooking at home, taverns, food stalls, servant cooks... The options are many. I've tried to come up with a system that is both fun and easy to manage. As little micromanagement as possible, hopefully even less than in current DF. Feel free to come up with your own refinements, ideas, counter suggestions, etc.

This is not a thread about food variety! (We had enough of those) It's about storing, preparation, and eating.

I do realise there's about bazillion of food threads here, and I did read them. I'm stealing ideas all around, most notably from Preparation, Preservation, and Hungry Hungry Hominids. I could have posted this in that thread, I guess, but seeing as it is two years old and that this post is quite long, I decided to create a new thread.

---------

Why change it?
Why change the system "take any food ingredients>cook them>store the prepared meal in a barrel" to something more complex?
  • It feels weird and out of place in a game that simulates yield strength of different metals, individual body tissues or personalities.
  • The old system is bland. Imagine instead of people eating mangled stuff from barrels, they would visit taverns or food stalls, or cook at home, or have servant cooks. New interesting locations or professions!
  • Food could potentialy become an easy way to create differences between a dwarf fortress, human town, goblin tower or elf retreat. I can imagine goblins eating all together from a huge pot, elves eating only raw foods, humans buying food on marketplaces and cooking it home (men could work, women could shop and cook). All of these are viable rooms or workshops for the different game modes.
  • A better system would add flavour to the game and perhaps even make people enthusiastic about food. Take for example how the "realistic" geology made many people interested in stones. Apply it to food (it's healthy and educational  ;D).
  • It completely breaks any economy and I guess it's prerequisite for the caravan arc. You can't just trade prepared steaks and stews without breaking the economy (or at least the immersion).
  • Food has a great gameplay potential in trading or even diplomacy. If storing food becomes more difficult, suddenly some kinds of food become rare and valuable! Caravans of food would suddenly be interesting and important. Trading for exotic foods, grain tributes, etc...

1. Obtaining and storing food
So the food could only be stored before cooking, and cooking a meal would be the end of its career. There are many threads about obtaining food or having different food types so I won't talk about it here. See farming improvements or many others.

To keep it simple, I'd divide foods into things that spoil (vegetables, meat, bread...) and things that never spoil (like alcohol, grain, salted meat, etc.). Things that spoil would all spoil after the same time (say... two seasons in dwarf mode), things that won't will stay forever. It's very simplified, but easy to remember and manage. (Though I can imagine a third group of things that spoil really quickly - like meat - in a month or so). In adventure mode, times could be more varied and realistic, but in dwarf mode, having things spoil only after two seasons or so gives you enough time to process them without much hassle and micromanagement. You would have to eat them or preserve them eventually. Preserved food would never spoil.

A quick sketch of food types, just an example:
  • Meat and fish: spoil, can be preserved by drying, salting or smoking
  • Prepared organs: spoil, cannot be preserved
  • Fruit, mushrooms and vegetables: spoil, cannot be preserved (optionally, depending of how many subsystems we want to implement, can be preserved by canning and pickling... with difficulties and in small amounts)
  • Grain: can't be eaten but doesn't ever spoil
  • Bread: spoils, can't be preserved
  • Milk: spoils (alternatively, "spoils very quickly" if we have 3 groups) can't be preserved but can be made to cheese (or perhaps have all milk in dwarf mode immediately made into cheese).
  • Cheese: doesn't spoil (? - I'm thinking hard cheese as the standard), can't be otherwise preserved
  • More details and suggestions in this thread.

Spoiling after two seasons sounds about right... this would mean that eg. humans would be able to live off autumn harvest od vegetables through the winter but come spring they'd be reduced to eat bread only. Unless they had stocks of salted fish or smoked meat, of course. This sounds reasonably historical and prevents you from hoarding huge amounts of food (or at least makes it harder) which is good for game balance I think.

Some kind of AI that would make dwarves eat spoilables first would be nice. Personal preferences would come into play, of course.

NOTE: please don't confuse preserved food which refers to processed raw ingredients (dried meat, salted fish, dried mushrooms...) with prepared meals which refers to cooked meals (biscuits, stews and roasts in the current version).


2. Eating and cooking
Food could be eaten raw (no change here) or cooked. Cooking would happen right before eating, not weeks or months! The player would no longer order food to be cooked - dwarves would cook automatically, by themselves, as needed or as they get hungry. The player would only have to build some kind of a kitchen, then forget about cooking entirely. If the player wouldn't build a kitchen, dwarves would resort to eating raw food. Eating raw food only would probably cause bad mood.

The "prepared meal" items as we have them now would no longer exist. Technically, there would probably still be some "cooked meal" items... existing for a couple of seconds after dwarves take them out of a kitchen, and before they eat them. They would have no gameplay relevance, nor could they be stored. If for some reason a dwarf wouldn't finish his meal, it would count as refuse.

There's many possibilities how to handle "kitchens". Just throwing some ideas (thinking in dwarf mode terms):
  • Individual cooking: a person would grab ingredients and just cook them for themselves. Either in their room (optionally might require a "stove" furniture) or in a communal kitchen that can be used by anyone (implemented the same way as current kitchens, or perhaps as hospital-like rooms where you'd place stoves and food stockpiles). The food turns into prepared meal. Eat it quickly!
  • Family cooking: in non-egalitarian societies (humans?), women wouldn't work (you wouldn't be able to assign any jobs to them). Instead they would obtain/buy food and cook it at home for the whole family. I imagine it implemented via some kind of pot that holds many servings at once. The woman would periodically replenish it so there's food for the family at any time (much easier to implement that to have all the family members eat at once). For the sake of simplicity, the food in the pot wouldn't rot... it's bound be eaten very soon anyway.
  • Communal cooking: very much like family cooking, just for the whole fortress at once. A huge pot or several pots served by full-time cooks. Anyone gets hungry, they come to the mess hall and take a serving of stew from the common pot.
  • Taverns could again use the periodically replenished pot (to have food available at all times). The "pot" system might be expanded to include other meals than stews in other kinds of containers. Like a barbeque "pot" holding a roasted pig, for example.
  • Servant cooks could be implemented the same way as family cooks, so they'd simply keep a continual supply of prepared meals (perhaps better quality) in the lord's manor. Cooking by order would be the hardest to implement since you'd somehow have to synchronise several dwarves to one "job" (the servant cooking and the lord waiting).

Only some ways would be available to a dwarf player, but other races would use different cooking habits. As I've said, imagine dwarves using individual cooking + taverns, humans using family cooking, goblins using large communal pots, etc.

To elaborate on the "pot" idea: I think food in "pots" shouldn't rot or degrade for the sake of simplicity. You can't take it out anyway (so it's almost like it didn't exist), and spoiling would just add too much micromanagement. If fort mode dwarves eat about 8 times a year, then some kind of rotting simplification is necessary. While a pot could still hold prepared meals indefinitely, it would be only small amounts (4 to 10?) - nothing like the thousands of roasts and stews we have in barrells now. The thousands of items would need to be stored in raw/preserved state. Once cooked, food could only be eaten or thrown away, never sold to caravans.

Optional: I believe this cooking system would be later easily expandable by adding nutritional effects or food diseases/sterilisation by cooking. But that's over the scope of this suggestion. I'd like to keep it as basic as possible.

Economy
Food is the base level for the whole economy. Unless you have food economy functioning properly, you have no economy  :) It's very important to get it right for the caravan arc if Toady wants to have "realistic" worlds. The target we want is: basic foods like grain selling for very low prices in very high quantities (think grain caravans), and moving from villages to towns. Villages keep towns alive, a towns can't survive without food from the countryside. In more concrete terms:
  • Grain, vegetables and fruit are cheap and available in huge supplies. They are only traded in the raw form.
  • Since fruit and vegetables are spoilables, they should have limited caravan "range". Caravans would take them only short distances. Grain doesn't spoil and can be shipped all over the world.
  • Addendum: I think the problem with fruit/vegetables transport wasn't just time, but perhaps more importantly the hazards of medieval travel - insects, bumping and other nasty things that would destroy the fruit after quite a short distance
  • Raw meat and raw fish are average priced and can be traded only locally since they spoil too fast. Prepared organs fall into this category as well, so you wouldn't be able to buy sausages from caravans for example.
  • Meat instead gets traded in livestock form  :)  If you want sausages, you have to butcher the pig yourself! Livestock is expensive and can be traded short distances (I guess?).
  • Preserved (smoked, salted...) meats and fish are expensive but can be traded all over the world.
  • Milk is extremely short distances only.

For dwarf mode players it would mean they could buy quite a limited range of foods, depending on the exact game location. If they are in an isolated area, caravans would only bring things like salted meat, but the player might arrange grain caravans as well. No fruit or vegetables though. If, on the other hand, the fortress was built in an inhabited area, it would get large variety of spoilable foods from the outlying farms.

It's debatable whether to have the same "towns need villages" apply not only to the world, but also to player fortresses. I'd say YES since having to care about food caravans sounds like Fun. But fortunately fortress mode can cheat and use different rules then the rest of the world.


Optional:

If we want fortresses dependent on the outside world, we have to do something about the limited food consumption. As it is now, dwarves eat too little. Butchering one cow yields about 15 meat and 10 organs, which is 25 food units, which means single cow can feed 4 dwarves for a year. Obviously, this totally breaks the whole economy. Unless this is changed, having enough food in fortress mode would stay extremely easy.

Ideally, a dwarf should consume the same amount of food per year in the fortress mode as in the adventurer mode. In adventurer mode, dwarves eat (or will eat) each day. In fortress mode, they eat about 8 times a year. Which means one fortress-mode meal ought to represent 1/8th of 336 = 42 adventurer-mode meals. The question is how to handle this in a way that still is user-friendly. In any case, it would probably require many changes in Numbers(TM)

We have no answer yet, and I would like to ask you to discuss the issue. My original, now outdated proposal is in the spoiler.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
----

Well... and that's about it. I've outlined how I imagine food could be working after the caravan arc. I also recommend reading the thread I mentioned many times for inspiration. Any comments welcome.

6
I can't figure out how the core/total quality in stockpile settings works. I'm quite certain about the core part, but what does the total quality do?

I'm trying to create a stockpile that would accept unimproved crafts or cheap crafts below certain price, to be studded with metal and gems. Once they get improved and more expensive, they should be stored in a different stockpile, far from my workshops. It this even possible?

7
DF Gameplay Questions / Dealing with FUN that has poisonous vapors
« on: April 21, 2010, 11:22:49 am »
I have more than 50 HFS buggers in my cellar, walled of. I thought I might let them in one by one and take them off piecemeal. I let one in and send my 20 soldiers at him. The fight was pretty long, but eventually my soldiers killed him without any casualtied...

...well...

...then they all at once got fever and died. Only one survived, accidentaly the one who killed the beast, thanks to standing on the right side and not getting hit by the vapors. I savescummed, because I don't want to reclaim this fort again.

So what do I do? There's 50 HFSs killing my framerate. I can't kill them from afar, since ranged weapons don't work. I can't kill them in melee without losing the whole military to the first one. Is magma the only option, or am I doing something wrong? Is it even possible to survive poisons or at least protect against them, and if yes, how do I do that?

8
DF Bug Reports / The Eternal Child
« on: December 08, 2009, 11:14:25 am »
In the current Let's Play that's running on Somethingawful (Syrupleaf, and I can only recommend reading it), I've been assigned a character of a dwarf child...

...the thing is I'm actually an eternal child.


Download the save here.

Now don't take me wrong. This is actually one of the most awesome bugs I've ever experienced in DF. It was a great dilemma, whether I should report it, or not. But I guess I should...
...don't worry about fixing it, though.  ::)


9
DF Modding / 2D version graphics?
« on: September 30, 2009, 03:11:42 am »
I recently started playing the 2D version, using my favourite graphics and tile sets. It works fine in most cases, except with the old nobles that have been cut. So, for example, the game loads no graphics for Trade Master or House Ber Representative.

I'd like to set graphic sprites even for these, but I don't know what their code in RAWS it. I mean what is their equivalent of this:
[TAXCOLLECTOR:DWARVES:10:0:AS_IS:DEFAULT]

Does anyone remember the codes for the old nobles, or can you link me to on old tileset, forum topic, or whatever where I can find them? Thanks a lot.

10
Disclaimer: there's a lot of talk about micromanagement reduction, and standing production orders are the second most wanted feature in the eternal voting. There's also a lot of minor suggestions everywhere. I decided to try and compile these into a coherent system, thinking about the actual implementation, interface, etc. This is the result. A lot of the presented ideas aren't my own, but taken from other topics... I'm too lazy to credit the proper authors, not because I don't want to, but because I've been thinking about this for the past few months and I don't remember where things came from. So sorry if I stole your spotlight.

If you like this system, please vote for it in the eternal voting (search for "automate all labour"... yeah, with the British spelling  :P).


1. The Idea

The present way of handling labor in DF isn't fun. It requires you to renew mundane orders again and again, which only delays the real gameplay. The future goals promise many more items to make, jobs to do and options to select, which means something has to be done, if the game is to remain playable.

The main idea of my proposal is this:

All industries should be able to work by themselves with no player input at all. The player only must build the needed workshops and set the labor preferences of individual dwarves - after that, it works automatically. Of course the player can step in if he wants to streamline the production or create a specific item, but he shouldn't be required to.

My inspiration is The Settlers (aka Serf City) game. It has quite a complicated production chain but once you build the proper buildings, you may as well forget about them, they simply work (but of course there are options to change the defaults). If you haven't played the game, try it, it's the closest game to DF I can think of.

I expect there will be an outcry about how I'm dumbing the game down. First of all, I believe some sacrifices have to be made to make the game more user friendly and open to new players. That being said, please note I keep all the current options (and future ones - like expanded material selection) as they are, I'm not gutting them. I just want them to be optional.


2. Workshops

2.1. Automate the workshops

All* workshops start automated. When automated, workshops produce random** jobs/items from random materials**, indefinitely. When the player places an order (see 3), it temporarily overwrites the automation. Once all orders are completed, the workshops goes back to producing random stuff.

* Or at least most of them. Pumps and siege engines don't really have to start automated :)
** It doesn't really have to be random, it can be based on probabilities, it might randomly do everything but with a few exceptions (like not using adamantine)... whatever system the Toady decides for. As long as the workshops are able to make most items by themselves, anything goes.



The player can turn off the automation, at which point the workshop becomes a normal workshop as we know it from the current version. There should be an ini option that “workshops don't start automated”.

As for the actual workshop interface, it can be filled by options such as allowed dwarves, allowed jobs, allowed materials, etc. As long as I don't have to use them, I'm happy.

2.2. Move Unassigned Jobs to Workshops

Move jobs that currently don't use workshops (like woodcutting) to workshops. Until you do this, you can't really have a control over their automation. These jobs are:
  • Woodcutting - create a woodcutter's workshop
  • Hunting - create a hunter's workshop, or let him work from butchery (?)
  • Fishing - move to fishery
  • Farming - already has a workshop (fields are workshops), I'm only pointing it out.
  • Plant Gathering - create a herbalist's workshop or move to farmer's workshop
  • Mining and Engraving can't be automated (“mine random rock,” hehe), so there's no need to create workshops for them

Once you have them in workshops, you gain much more control over these jobs. You can automate them as in 2.1., you can even place orders like “cut 30 trees” or “catch 15 fish”. It's a win-win situation! All of this should also work without the need to designate areas for woodcutting, plant gathering, etc. - the woodcutter would simply go and fell the nearest tree. Sand Gathering already works a bit like this, but I don't like that I have to set up a sand gathering zone. The dwarves should find the nearest sand by themselves.

On a semi-related note, I believe the area designations for jobs should be killed entirely (with the obvious exception of mining and engraving), and that all industry should be controlled entirely from workshops. Why? In- game consistency and user friendliness! “When I want to produce something, I need to build a workshop” is an easy mantra to learn. “When I want to create this, I need to build a workshop, when  I want to produce this, I have to designate an area, and when I want to gather this, I need to set up a zone,” is needlessly complicated. Get rid of it, pretty please. To retain the precise control over woodcutting and stuff, player should be able to forbid areas he doesn't want to have cut/gathered/whatever. Basically the other way around in comparison with the way things currently work.

The getting rid of designations is frankly just a matter of personal opinion. You can move woodcutting to a workshop and use either of these two solutions. I just believe that there is more players who'd use “cut everything but this” than those who'd  use “cut only this”, so the former should be the default mode. And yes, I'm aware it's probably harder to code.

EDIT: Wait a second. How does fishing work? The fisherdwarves catch fish everywhere, unless told to catch them in a specified area? Could all the mentioned jobs work like this? Personally, anything is fine with me, as long as you choose one approach and make everything use it, not mix the approaches haphazardly like in the current version :p .


3. Player's Input

Now we have all industry in neatly automated workshops. The fortress is self-sufficient and can run even if we don't babysit it. Hooray! The other part is to allow the player to change the default setup, so he can produce specific items, customize production and generally tinker with stuff. There's a lot of means:

3.1. Ordering Items

When you want a specific item to be made, you place an order using the job manager (the interface feature). The manager (the dwarf) then sends your request to the workshops (no change here). Orders temporarily stop automation, but all of them are completed, the workshop goes back to automated mode (unless the automation is forbidden, of course).

This should be the main and most used way how to do stuff. The feature really deserves to be in a well-visible spot in the main menu, not hidden in a sidebar of an obscure submenu.

I'd also propose to disable direct ordering of items in workshops (q -> a, I believe) just to kill the redundancy. But I suppose the public opinion stands against me  ::) .

3.2. Standing Production Orders

We all love and want these, right? The basic idea is to allow the player to set minimum and maximum amounts of specific stocks and then just let the game maintain them. However, when coupled with mine proposal of workshop automation (“do random stuff”), the production orders need to be handled carefully:

1.So we have a system where workshops do random jobs by themselves
2.The player can set minimum and maximum amounts of any stock
  • When there is more than maximum of the stock, the automated workshops won't produce it. Basically, it is taken out of the algorithm that chooses random things to produce. The player can still order it manually, though.
  • When there is in between minimum and maximum of the stock, the automated workshops work normally. They produce random stuff.
  • When there less than minimum of the stock, the manager (the dwarf) orders some to be made. I don't know how many, but “order up to the maximum, but no more than 30 items” sounds well enough. The order behaves like any other order (3.1.), which means it temporarily cancels workshop automation.

BONUS: As for the interface, I think this would fit nicely in the Stocks menu. And because a picture is worth thousand times more than words, here's a graphic proposal. Please note it's just a rough, not well though-out sketch. I is made according to my user interface proposal - if you didn't like it, you may ignore this as well.

EDIT: I forgot to add numbers to the line with Doors, oh well...

Some notes: the items are all organized in three levels that can be expanded and collapsed as needed. The topmost level is the rough group of items (furniture), the second level is item selection (coffins), and the last level is material selection (gold). The same type-material division already works in the current stocks menu, only not in expandable categories.

The unused column lists items that are ready to be used (containers must be empty), the used column list items that can't be used (are unaccessible, part of a building or a full container). The automation system only counts unused items.

Min/Max columns are explained above the picture. I wasn't sure at what level should the automation be allowed . Only at the item level (make any plate mail)? Only at the material level (make iron plate mail)? I tried both, hopefully it won't cause much trouble. In my example, the fortress manager would go and order new “any coffins” and new “golden coffins”... probably at the same time (unless the system is very elaborate and can handle these duplications - but it isn't necessary).

Disallow is a special function that limit the automation. If you disable an item or material, it won't ever produced automatically - a player must order it manually. It applies not only to standing orders (3.2.), but also to random automation (2.1.). In my example, all the coffins would only be made of either rock, or gold. Never from wood nor from other metals.

Using the Min/Max/Disallow system, Toady might easily come with a clever default setup (eg. having all furniture be only made of rock). If the settings could be exported, players could share them or use them in different fortresses.

3.3. Auto-ordering by Building

Right now I can build a building/furniture only if I have all the necessary items available. Allow it to be build even if none are ready, in which case the fortress manager goes and places an order for them (using any allowed material).

Say I am, for example, building a housing area, and I already dug out all the rooms. Having no furniture on stock, I go and designate 20 beds, 20 coffers and 20 cabinets. After that I only watch how the fortress manager goes and orders these items, how the masons produce them and haulers bring them to the place. Hooray!

Personally, I consider this one of the prerequisites for having more detailed items selection (like special tools that are needed for certain workshops).

3.4. Auto-ordering by Dwarves

In rare cases, dwarves should be allowed to auto-order items by themselves. I'm not speaking about industry, but about some very specific items that add depth to the game, but aren't fun to manage. For example, the next version will include splints and bandages that I'd like to have auto-ordered as needed. This is my other personal prerequisite for detailed items like tools.

Also, this point may be redundant if the standing orders are implemented. I just felt like mentioning it  ::).


4. The End

I have the feeling I had more points prepared, but forgot about some of them. Well, nevermind, I hope the idea speak for itself. The actual nuances can be polished later.

Hope you like this system, and, please, don't forget to vote for it in the eternal voting (search for "automate all labour").

Cheers,
Jiri

11
DF Dwarf Mode Discussion / How to provoke a war?
« on: August 28, 2009, 04:10:15 pm »
The title says it all. I want to provoke war with humans, what's the best way to do it? Will caravan guards attack me if I steal the caravan's stuff?

12
DF Suggestions / Total Interface Overhaul (now with sparkles)
« on: April 29, 2009, 05:33:18 pm »
Updated 06/28/2010

This thread is a repository of ideas and proposals for the improvement of interface. You'll find a lot of different things from different people here, the idea was to provide a fountain of inspiration for Toady to choose from. Please join us with your own proposals or at least comment on the things prepared by others.

Some of the interface ideas here require massive changes in the game (full mouse support, simple graphics, resizable menus), others are mostly little tweaks focused on quick realisation and ease of modification.

Have fun!

Disclaimer: I'd like to keep this topic focused on technical aspects of the interface itself - like what functions to include or not, where to place them, whether to have the mouse as a mandatory control, etc. If you'd like to discuss accompanying stuff like "Toady should do the interface himself/Toady should outsource it" or "The interface is/isn't a priority", please do it in a separate thread to keep this thread useful and free of flames.

Also, when the external voting gets reset I'll put Total Interface Overhaul there and ask you for your support.  ;)



Suggestions repository


These are links to interface proposals by users. Please note that I'm only linking to "major" posts (basically posts with pictures). There is a lot of valuable talk and suggestions between them, and I suggest reading the whole topic.

General Interface

The Many Menus
The game menus could use some streamlining, features could be rearranged, some menus merged, items swapped, etc. The are suggestions about the menus:

Other Screens
Dwarf Fortress has a lot of other screens aside from the main game windows. These are suggestions for these:

Misc
  • Screenflow (Youtube) - showing several Z-levels at once

13
DF Gameplay Questions / [2D Version] Any way to solve permaflood?
« on: April 28, 2009, 06:04:15 am »
I've never played the 2D version and decided to give it a try. Well... after some misunderstanding with floodgates, I flooded not only the entire fortress but also the outside world. I abandoned, then reclaimed, hoping I could settle the fortress again. But the flood is still there and I can't dig into mountain in a different place (gets flooded immediately), neither build anything outsite (water everywhere).

I searched old topics here and found out this is called "permaflood". But I didn't find any solution and the Wiki doesn't have articles about the 2D version.

Does someone remember how to solve permafloods? Or is it even possible?

Thanks

14
Hello everyone,

I'm quite a new player, and I've still played only one fortress, though for a long time and I am near getting the king already. This fortress was in a calm temperate woodland by the base of mountains, which the wiki recommends as a suggested starting are for begginers. There's been a lot of buzz here in the past few days about difficulty, challenge, map features, etc., and I wander what possible emark areas are there? I haven't found a topic like this, so I'm starting a new one.

Could you please recomment me (and other forum members, of course) the areas you are personally finding interesting to build a fortress at? I would make experiments myself, only if I had more time for playing. The most obvious interesting places for me are evil areas and goblin towers. But I also keep hearing about undead elephants, armies of carp, and so on... where are those?

Or, tu put the question in a different way, what combinations of biomes, terrain features and wilderness do you reccomend for an interesting, unique gameplay?

Thanks in advance.


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