Bay 12 Games Forum

I discovered Dwarf Fortress earlier this week, played around with the Fortress mode a bit, then decided to give Adventure mode a spin. I had several fighters, they were ripped apart by scorpions, leaopards, some ratmen, but the main threat was cyclops's, every time I fought them they tore me apart. Once I brought 6 friends along and still died (although two of them did finally kill it, they were so injured though they probably didn't make it out alive. Finally I gave a spear character a try, and trained and fought, I would kill animals, I would go into caves, kill the weaklings, and run away once I found the cyclops, I slaughtered undead, until finally I was thought I was ready for a cyclops. I destroyed him, and the next, endlessly seeking bigger fish I eventually got to my first dragon, this is that story:

The flying X*iron arrow*X strikes The dragon in the right front claw!
The shot glances away.
You stab The dragon in the lower body with your ®bronze spear¯!
The shot glances away.
You stab The dragon in the left rear claw with your ®bronze spear¯!
The shot glances away.
The dragon breathes fire!
You block the dragonfire.
You stab The dragon in the left rear leg with your ®bronze spear¯!
The shot glances away.
The dragon charges at You!
The dragon strikes at You but the shot is blocked!
The dragon collides with You!
You are knocked over!
The dragon strikes at You but the shot is blocked!
You stand up.
The dragon misses You!
You counterstrike!
You stab The dragon in the right rear leg with your ®bronze spear¯!
The shot glances away.
You stab The dragon in the upper body with your ®bronze spear¯!
The shot glances away.
The dragon misses You!
You counterstrike!
You stab The dragon in the right rear leg with your ®bronze spear¯!
The shot glances away.
You stab The dragon in the head with your ®bronze spear¯!
The shot glances away.
You stab The dragon in the tail with your ®bronze spear¯!
The shot glances away.
The dragon misses You!
You counterstrike!
You stab The dragon in the lower body with your ®bronze spear¯!
The shot glances away.
You stab The dragon in the upper body with your ®bronze spear¯!
The shot glances away.
You stab The dragon in the tail with your ®bronze spear¯!
The shot glances away.
The dragon misses You!
You counterstrike!
You stab The dragon in the head with your ®bronze spear¯!
The shot glances away.
You stab The dragon in the right front leg with your ®bronze spear¯!
The shot glances away.
You attack The dragon but She jumps away!
You pick up the small Siltstone rock and put it in your lion leather backpack.
The spinning small Siltstone rock strikes The dragon in the lower body!
The shot glances away.
The dragon charges at You!
The dragon attacks You but You jump away!
The dragon rushes by You!
You pick up the small Granite rock and put it in your lion leather backpack.
You stab The dragon in the right front leg with your ®bronze spear¯!
The shot glances away.
You stab The dragon in the lower body with your ®bronze spear¯!
It is badly pierced!
The dragon looks sick!
The dragon's pancreas has been badly pierced!
The dragon's lower spine has been badly pierced!
The dragon breathes fire!
You block the dragonfire.
You stab The dragon in the right front claw with your ®bronze spear¯!
The shot glances away.
You stab The dragon in the head with your ®bronze spear¯!
The shot glances away.
You stab The dragon in the left rear claw with your ®bronze spear¯!
The shot glances away.
The dragon vomits.
The dragon misses You!
You counterstrike!
You stab The dragon in the upper body with your ®bronze spear¯!
The shot glances away.
You stab The dragon in the head with your ®bronze spear¯!
The shot glances away.
The dragon vomits.
You grab The dragon by the throat with your ®bronze spear¯!
The dragon vomits.
You adjust the grip of Your ®bronze spear¯ on The dragon's throat.
You adjust the grip of Your ®bronze spear¯ on The dragon's throat.
The dragon misses You!
The dragon vomits.
You adjust the grip of Your ®bronze spear¯ on The dragon's throat.
You take The dragon down by the throat with Your ®bronze spear¯!
You adjust the grip of Your ®bronze spear¯ on The dragon's throat.
You punch The dragon in the lower body with your left hand!
The shot glances away.
The dragon stands up.
You punch The dragon in the tail with your right hand!
The shot glances away.
You adjust the grip of Your ®bronze spear¯ on The dragon's throat.
You release the grip of Your ®bronze spear¯ on The dragon's throat.
You stab The dragon in the right rear leg with your ®bronze spear¯!
The shot glances away.
You stab The dragon in the left front leg with your ®bronze spear¯!
The shot glances away.
The dragon misses You!
You counterstrike!
You stab The dragon in the upper body with your ®bronze spear¯!
The shot glances away.
You stab The dragon in the head with your ®bronze spear¯!
The shot glances away.
You stab The dragon in the right front leg with your ®bronze spear¯!
The shot glances away.
The dragon charges at You!
The dragon strikes at You but the shot is blocked!
The dragon collides with You!
You are knocked over!
The dragon strikes at You but the shot is blocked!
You counterstrike!
You stab The dragon in the left front leg with your ®bronze spear¯!
The shot glances away.
You stand up.
The dragon misses You!
You stab The dragon in the upper body with your ®bronze spear¯!
The shot glances away.
The dragon breathes fire!
You block the dragonfire.
You stab The dragon in the left front leg with your ®bronze spear¯!
The shot glances away.
You stab The dragon in the upper body with your ®bronze spear¯!
The shot glances away.
The dragon misses You!
You counterstrike!
You stab The dragon in the left front leg with your ®bronze spear¯!
The shot glances away.
You stab The dragon in the left front leg with your ®bronze spear¯!
The shot glances away.
You stab The dragon in the head with your ®bronze spear¯!
The shot glances away.
The dragon misses You!
You counterstrike!
You stab The dragon in the left rear leg with your ®bronze spear¯!
It is badly pierced!
You stab The dragon in the upper body with your ®bronze spear¯!
The shot glances away.
You stab The dragon in the left rear leg with your ®bronze spear¯!
The shot glances away.
The dragon misses You!
You counterstrike!
You stab The dragon in the left front leg with your ®bronze spear¯!
The shot glances away.
You stab The dragon in the upper body with your ®bronze spear¯!
The shot glances away.
You stab The dragon in the right front leg with your ®bronze spear¯!
The shot glances away.
The dragon misses You!
You counterstrike!
You stab The dragon in the right rear leg with your ®bronze spear¯!
The shot glances away.
You stab The dragon in the left front claw with your ®bronze spear¯!
The shot glances away.
You stab The dragon in the upper body with your ®bronze spear¯!
The shot glances away.
The dragon misses You!
You counterstrike!
You stab The dragon in the right rear leg with your ®bronze spear¯!
The shot glances away.
You stab The dragon in the head with your ®bronze spear¯!
The shot glances away.
You stab The dragon in the upper body with your ®bronze spear¯!
The shot glances away.
The dragon charges at You!
The dragon strikes at You but the shot is blocked!
The dragon collides with You!
You are knocked over!
The dragon strikes at You but the shot is blocked!
The dragon strikes at You but the shot is blocked!
You counterstrike!
You stab The dragon in the lower body with your ®bronze spear¯!
The shot glances away.
You stand up.
You stab The dragon in the left front claw with your ®bronze spear¯!
The shot glances away.
The dragon misses You!
You counterstrike!
You stab The dragon in the right rear leg with your ®bronze spear¯!
The shot glances away.
You stab The dragon in the upper body with your ®bronze spear¯!
The shot glances away.
The dragon charges at You!
The dragon strikes at You but the shot is blocked!
The dragon collides with You!
You are knocked over!
The dragon breathes fire!
You block the dragonfire.
You stand up.
The dragon charges at You!
The dragon strikes at You but the shot is blocked!
The dragon collides with You!
You are knocked over and tumble backward!
The dragon strikes at You but the shot is blocked!
You counterstrike!
You stab The dragon in the left rear leg with your ®bronze spear¯!
The shot glances away.
You stand up.
The dragon misses You!
You stab The dragon in the left rear leg with your ®bronze spear¯!
The shot glances away.
The dragon charges at You!
The dragon strikes at You but the shot is blocked!
The dragon collides with You!
You are knocked over!
The dragon strikes at You but the shot is blocked!
You counterstrike!
You stab The dragon in the right rear claw with your ®bronze spear¯!
The shot glances away.
The dragon strikes at You but the shot is blocked!
You stand up.
You are no longer stunned.
The dragon misses You!
You counterstrike!
You stab The dragon in the left rear leg with your ®bronze spear¯!
The shot glances away.
You stab The dragon in the left front leg with your ®bronze spear¯!
The shot glances away.
You stab The dragon in the right rear leg with your ®bronze spear¯!
The shot glances away.
The dragon misses You!
You counterstrike!
You stab The dragon in the lower body with your ®bronze spear¯!
The shot glances away.
You stab The dragon in the head with your ®bronze spear¯!
The shot glances away.
The dragon misses You!
You counterstrike!
You stab The dragon in the left rear leg with your ®bronze spear¯!
The shot glances away.
You stab The dragon in the lower body with your ®bronze spear¯!
The shot glances away.
You stab The dragon in the right rear leg with your ®bronze spear¯!
The shot glances away.
The dragon misses You!
You counterstrike!
You stab The dragon in the upper body with your ®bronze spear¯!
The shot glances away.
You stab The dragon in the upper body with your ®bronze spear¯!
The shot glances away.
The dragon breathes fire!
You block the dragonfire.
You block the dragonfire.
You stab The dragon in the lower body with your ®bronze spear¯!
The shot glances away.
The dragon misses You!
You counterstrike!
You stab The dragon in the upper body with your ®bronze spear¯!
The shot glances away.
The ratman charges at You from behind!
The ratman punches You in the right upper arm from behind with his left hand!
The shot glances away.
The ratman collides with You!
You tangle together and fall over!
The dragon strikes at You but the shot is blocked!
You counterstrike!
You stab The dragon in the upper body with your ®bronze spear¯!
The shot glances away.
The dragon strikes at You but the shot is blocked!
The ratman is no longer stunned.
The ratman strikes at You but the shot is blocked!
You counterstrike!
You stab The ratman in the left lower leg with your ®bronze spear¯!
It is mangled!
You stand up.
The dragon misses You!
You counterstrike!
You stab The dragon in the left front claw with your ®bronze spear¯!
The shot glances away.
You stab The ratman in the right lower arm with your ®bronze spear¯!
It is mangled!
The ratman's right elbow has been crippled!
The ratman gives into pain.
You lie on the ground.
The dragon strikes at You but the shot is blocked!
You counterstrike!
You stab The dragon in the right front claw with your ®bronze spear¯!
The shot glances away.
The dragon strikes at You but the shot is blocked!
You stab The ratman in the left lower arm with your ®bronze spear¯!
It is mangled!
The dragon strikes at You but the shot is blocked!
You counterstrike!
You stab The dragon in the right front claw with your ®bronze spear¯!
The shot glances away.
You stab The ratman in the right upper arm with your ®bronze spear¯!
It is mangled!
The ®bronze spear¯ has lodged firmly in the wound!
The dragon strikes at You but the shot is blocked!
You counterstrike!
You punch The dragon in the upper body with your left hand!
The shot glances away.
The dragon strikes at You but the shot is blocked!
You counterstrike!
You punch The dragon in the lower body with your right hand!
The shot glances away.
You maintain possession of the ®bronze spear¯.
The dragon breathes fire!
The ratman has bled to death.
You block the dragonfire.
You block the dragonfire.
You block the dragonfire.
You block the dragonfire.
You block the dragonfire.
You block the dragonfire.
You block the dragonfire.
You block the dragonfire.
You stab The dragon in the right rear claw with your ®bronze spear¯!
The shot glances away.
The dragon strikes at You but the shot is blocked!
You counterstrike!
You stab The dragon in the right rear leg with your ®bronze spear¯!
The shot glances away.
The dragon strikes at You but the shot is blocked!
You counterstrike!
You stab The dragon in the upper body with your ®bronze spear¯!
The shot glances away.
You stab The dragon in the upper body with your ®bronze spear¯!
It is badly pierced!
The dragon is having trouble breathing!
The dragon's right lung has been pierced again!
The dragon's left lung has been pierced again!
The dragon's upper spine has been badly pierced!
The ®bronze spear¯ has lodged firmly in the wound!
The dragon strikes at You but the shot is blocked!
You counterstrike!
You twist the embedded ®bronze spear¯ around in The dragon's upper body!
The dragon gives into pain.
The dragon falls over.
You stand up.
You grab The dragon by the throat with your XX*iron shield*XX!
You place a chokehold on The dragon's throat with Your XX*iron shield*XX!
You strangle The dragon's throat!
You strangle The dragon's throat!
You strangle The dragon's throat!
You strangle The dragon's throat!
You strangle The dragon's throat!
You strangle The dragon's throat!
You strangle The dragon's throat!
You strangle The dragon's throat!
You strangle The dragon's throat!
You strangle The dragon's throat!
You strangle The dragon's throat!
You strangle The dragon's throat!
You strangle The dragon's throat!
You strangle The dragon's throat!
You strangle The dragon's throat!
You strangle The dragon's throat!
You strangle The dragon's throat!
You strangle The dragon's throat!
You strangle The dragon's throat!
You strangle The dragon's throat!
You strangle The dragon's throat!
You strangle The dragon's throat!
You strangle The dragon's throat!
You strangle The dragon's throat!
You strangle The dragon's throat!
You strangle The dragon's throat!
You strangle The dragon's throat!
You strangle The dragon's throat!
You collapse and fall to the ground from over-exertion.
The dragon regains consciousness.
You strangle The dragon's throat!
You release the choke hold of Your XX*iron shield*XX on The dragon's throat.
You twist the embedded ®bronze spear¯ around in The dragon's upper body!
The dragon gives into pain.
You stand up.
You begin sneaking.
You are no longer in hiding.
You place a chokehold on The dragon's throat with Your XX*iron shield*XX!
You strangle The dragon's throat!
You collapse and fall to the ground from over-exertion.
You stand up.
Merir Akrulikud, dragon has bled to death.
You pick up the Merir Akrulikud's corpse and put it in your lion leather backpack.
You put the ®bronze spear¯ into the X*Rope reed quiver*X.
You take out the Merir Akrulikud's corpse.

my next fight after that:
You bash The troglodyte in the right hand with your Merir Akrulikud's corpse!
It is bruised!

I drug that corpse right back to the King and laid it on his feet. Now I am off to kill another one! I'll let you know how it goes.

For anyone that is interester I am (and was prior to this fight, I think, although I may have gone up in a couple skills during the struggle) Utra-Mighty, Unbelievably Agile, Extremely Tough, Speed 1562, Legendary Wrestler, Master Spearman, Great Shield User, and High Master Armor User.

I have been thinking about the magical creature issue. It has been mentioned that it is quite possible maybe even probable) that these legendary creatures will be hunted to extinction, and there has been discussion of how to fill this void. So I was wondering how to handle the limited number of these creatures, the players affect on their population, other sources of harm to their population, and their history. First I looked at it from the perspective that these animals were doomed to die eventually, which I believe is the common thought process. Slow reproductive rate, player shows up and wipes them out. Then I started thinking, well, if they were that inviable, they should have died earlier, after all, when you get to DF there is already a significant history, one which does not include dragons dying out. One could argue that the mortal creatures (including elves even I suppose, so maybe humanoid is better) have been expanding more and more, pushing the legendary creatures out and taking their life and land. However a common theme in fantasy is that their are generally large civilizations which have existed in the past, and collapsed since then, dragons, hydras, etc lived through this period of dwarven/human/even domination, even though the size of the empire is often larger, and it was more powerful, than it is now. So how have they survived?

One answer, of course, is that they didn’t. At the beginning of the world there were more dragons (for example) than they have ever been, they steadily declined (maybe substantially, such as in the time of the historic Empire) until now, when there are few left. Alternatively the population is relatively stable, dragons are robust creatures after all, and their extinction is nowhere near assured. As great an Empire as the player makes, there have probably been large Empires in the past as well, in DF you exist in the world much more often than you dominate it. For every adventurer that slays a Dragon there are dozens who are torn apart by lions, scorpions, and groundhogs. Look at Copperblazes, that shows you that some players will make extraordinary things that probably have never before been seen in the world, but it should take a player like that to topple one (or more) of the mythical races, not an average one. Now let’s look at a couple ways Dragons can survive over the years, including how they apply to Adventure and Fortress mode.

1.   They are very, very powerful. They are naturally armored, have powerful attacks, including ranged attacks, and they can fly. This means that not just any rabble can take them out, it takes a very powerful (and very rare) hero, or a sizable imperial force.

2.   They are intelligent. This means a couple things, one, they are able to communicate, make deals, make friends (depending on Toady’s vision of dragons, the amount in which they can do this may be extensive or quite limited). This also translates to tactics as well. A zombie well hobble straight into 5 armed knights, a troll may as well. A dragon is smart enough to realize when it should back down. It can run away from a fight, fight dirty, ambush, and attack from behind. Its maneuverability assists it in these things. They also generally have a good idea about what is going on in their territory, giving them the opportunity to attack (or run from), maybe not the lone sneaky adventurer (although maybe if he brings some friends), but definitely a small army.

3.   They do reproduce, just a little slower than normal races. The particular amount they do so (and how quickly and how many stages they go through while growing up) varies a little bit in fantasy, so there is wiggle room for game balance,  but dragons having a batch of 2-3 children every 2-3 centuries sounds pretty reasonable. Let’s say the game world has 20 dragons, even if only 4 of them reproduce regularly you would still be able to run through 4 dragons a century and everything would balance out.

Now 4 dragons a century doesn’t sound like very much. As an adventurer I myself killed two dragons in what was probably not even a couple weeks, however, thinking like this is forgetting that dragons are intelligent; as more of them die off they will get the word and start behaving differently in ways that make them harder to kill. The precise ways in which they realize that they are starting to be killed off could vary, but it is definitely not illogical to assume that many of them would get the memo.

Dragons in general would be on their guard more, they may patrol their surrounding lands more so that they are not taken by surprise. Instead ambushing the attacker outside, where they can make full use of their flight and long range. Forest fires are an excellent defensive mechanism. If the dragons are more intelligent they could trap their mountain a bit, or make a pack with another entity to provide mutual protection. A good dragon may offer to protect a Dwarven Fortress in exchange for them protecting him, an evil dragon may enslave/ally with goblins or trolls. (Not like the random cave monsters you fing in dragon caves now, a real fortress and military) A dragon could be assumed to know something about the killer, perhaps visiting one of the old caves, sniffing around (literally) and looking at the remnants of the fight (spent arrows maybe) would let him know whether it was a human, elf, or dwarf  responsible. Then he may go to the nearest band of those and either torch it, or make inquiries. Lacking that he may just go to the nearest town or large city. A less intelligent (or just very angry) dragon, for example, may destroy it. A more intelligent one could make peace with the king who sent the adventurer, threaten to destroy the palace/town/king unless he gives up the location of the Adventurer, or something else.

If instead of an adventurer an empire/army is responsible it would be much easier to identify the culprits. In this case the consequences would be even more dire. Generally dragons are solitary, however as they start being killed they will feel more vulnerable, and more likely to group together for protection. Therefore it would be perfectly logical for Several dragons to show up at the doorstep of the Kingdom which has slaughtered five of their kin. (Think of when the Ents finally decided they were sick of Saruman killing them off) The kingdom would be hard pressed to fight that off. This isn’t only a problem for Fortresses. An adventurer who has killed several dragons, (and has someone avoided being snuffed out by them, avoiding the destruction they have caused looking for him) May find that the next cave dragon he hunts down has adopted the buddy system and now has a friend to watch his back.

A few additional points, dragons the whole world over may become more paranoid and aggressive, feeling threatened by the humanoids near them and trying to drive them away, also as a last resort the dragons may simply evacuate, leaving for islands or other far off locations that other things can’t get to. Also, the help the mythical beasts get may not be from themselves. A god may decide you are disrupting the natural order of things, or one kingdom/race may like what you are trying to mow off and rise to its defense. Also, other, more powerful legendary beasts may rise to protect their distant cousins or servants.

Lastly, this guide mainly focused on dragons, these are intelligent creatures, and at least slightly social, even if they prefer to be isolated. Thus many of the things talked about may not apply to all legendary creatures. Hydras, for example, may indeed have no idea that most of their race has been hunted to extinction, or may realize it far later than dragons would. Also, there reactions may be limited. A hydra can be more alert, and attack nearby towns and villages, but it probably can’t reason with or blackmail a king.

[ May 11, 2007: Message edited by: Yonder ]