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Messages - IndigoSnake

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DF Dwarf Mode Discussion / Re: Which animals SHOULD be war trainable?
« on: June 30, 2019, 07:37:30 am »
The arbitrary distinction of animals into normal, war and hunting variants predates the personality system and in my opinion it should be scrapped and replaced with simple, exaggerated personality traits and skills (already implemented) for animals. In the child stage, an animal trainer could impart "aggression", "stealth"' "labor" or tricks" in a child animal, with each training facet increasing relevant skills and personality traits (e.g. training for aggression increases Fighter, Discipline, Biter if the animal has an appropriate body part, etc.).  When the animal becomes an adult, its personality and skills are fixed and potentially some labors enabled (e.g. an animal highly trained in tricks will dance if its owner is also doing a performance task (or sing if it's a bird?), and an animal trained in labor will haul items for its owner (but not do more complex tasks like crafting). Higher animal trainer skill increases traits faster or decreases cooldown time between when  an animal can be trained. Animal species and caste could affect how much skills are trained by each session, so e.g. a monkey could train tricks very fast but protectiveness very slowly. Training aptitude could be handled by evaluating existing tokens and implementing a handful of new ones.
That sounds really cool! So I imagine you could assign any animal to a dwarf, but only those with high discipline would help their owners fight, as opposed to fleeing with supreme terror? I suppose you could make that influenced by size-difference as well; then, all of Urist's war-hippopotamus galloping off could be a subtle hint to the player that fighting that extremely muscular ogre might be a bad idea!

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DF Modding / Re: Syndrome questions
« on: June 29, 2019, 01:52:00 am »
won't respect non-hostile combat
Could you elaborate on this? I know sometimes interactions won't fire in the arena, even though the AI should use them, so I figure it must be related to this.
Though in that case might alternatively look into assigning individual caste flags directly.
A dfhack script that would correctly apply [CAN_LEARN] whenever a relevant is syndrome applied would probably be my favorite dwarf fortress mod ever. Would objectively improve the game. Though, we don't necessarily know that it isn't being applied, just that the skill learning element appears to be broken; removing [CAN_LEARN] from a creature before killing and butchering it results in usable resources for bone-crafts, for example.

The transformation thing is interesting, my only concern is that the constant "Urist the dog has transformed into dog!" interrupting announcements might get annoying if you don't change announcements.txt.

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DF Modding / Re: Syndrome questions
« on: June 27, 2019, 04:29:16 pm »
Well, it is a shame that idea didn't work, IndigoSnake. Got to say, this idea is relevant to my interests as well.

Personalities are mostly already present and moddable.
Syndromes can grant a creature the ability to speak, it's just that the code that determines if a player can open the talk menu doesn't account for it - you'll notice AI creatures affected by the syndrome can talk just fine :(. As for dogs that can learn combat skills, you could always try giving them [CAN_LEARN] or [SLOW_LEARNER] in their creature raws (I believe the game checks their caste to see if the can learn skills, rather than accounting for syndromes?), and then setting the SKILL_LEARN_RATES for non-combat skills to 0. You'd gain the additional problems that intelligence grants (like needing to eat, sleep, have personalities(?), not be butcherable), and it'd be up to the game whether it actually respects those rates when generating those creatures.

Well observed; I did my testing in arena mode and fortress mode so I managed to miss the talking thing.
Wasn't the butchering glitch fixed recently? I vaguely remember reading something about being able to butcher dwarf castes with [PET] tokens.

[NO_EAT] and [NO_SLEEP] can be added via syndromes, so I guess there is still a small hope for making this work using SKILL_LEARN_RATEs. At that point the possible obstacles would include dogs throwing tantrums from being naked for too long and possibly un-respected SKILL_LEARN_RATES during world-gen. More !SCIENCE! is needed, but there is also the possibility that removing CAN_LEARN using syndromes works as intended for everything other than skill learning, [SKILL_LEARN_RATE] might be our messiah if so. I know sentient chickens at least will use nest boxes if their sentience is removed via syndrome, something sentient creatures allegedly refuse to do. So again, there is a small hope.

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Code: [Select]
[SELECT_MATERIAL:ALL]
add snydrome stuff here, mainly SNY_INJESTED should be an intake type
Awesome, thanks! Interestingly, it would appear that creatures with GOBBLE_VERMIN will never contract syndromes for eating live vermin. Eating prepared vermin, ala [FISHITEM], will though.

EDIT: Eating live vermin in adventure mode will also trigger it... Hmm...

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You could use the syndrome to grant an on_self interaction that triggers the interaction you really want.
Am I correct in saying those are only used during combat in the current version?
'Tis a shame I can't just make a syndrome that only affects [CAN_LEARN] creatures without making it either an interaction OR giving every single [CAN_LEARN] creature a creature-class.

Also, is there an eloquent way to make every material/body-part on a creature cause a syndrome when eaten?

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Can you trigger an interaction on the victim of a [VERMIN_BITE]? I tried to use [CE_BODY_MAT_INTERACTION:MAT_TOKEN:RESERVED_BLOOD:START:0] in a round-about way, ala vampire interaction, without much success.

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DF Modding / Re: Syndrome questions
« on: June 23, 2019, 12:10:45 am »
Uninformed idea, Regarding your cow: Have you tried using it's tile number that you can see with dfhack with gui/gm-editor df.global.world.texture.page? - that page lists all graphics tilesheets, and I've gotten lua viewscreens to display graphics by using numbers from it (for me, they were in the thousands).
I have not, but I am sure as hell trying to figure out how to do it now that you mentioned it!

EDIT: I typed gui/gm-editor df.global.texture.page into dfhack and was able to find the phoebus animals tilesheet. I tried a hundred or so of the numbers there. No luck sadly.

EDIT-2:
Well this is sad. I used the SECRETION creature token with the CONTINUOUS argument to infect dogs using their own sweat, solving my own question from earlier. Unfortunately, what I was trying to do appears to be impossible after experimenting for a bit.

Syndromes can:
take away a creature's ability to speak

Syndromes cannot:
grant a creature the ability to speak
take away a creature's ability to learn skills
grant a creature the ability to learn skills

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DF Modding / Re: Syndrome questions
« on: June 22, 2019, 11:47:04 pm »
Short answer: Permanently remove the "CAN_LEARN" creature token from the affected creature
Long answer:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

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DF Modding / Re: Syndrome questions
« on: June 22, 2019, 08:07:36 pm »
Cheers Meph.
Judging by the lack of the replies, I assume this is just the way it is right now, regarding the first question, which is unfortunate, but good to know.
Just another syndrome question if anyone who happens to know reads this.

What's the best way of ensuring ALL instances of a creature are infected with a specific syndrome, so that as soon as it spawns in/is born it is infected?

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Can I make a caste of a creature that can be created through breeding, but cannot be found in the wild?

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DF Dwarf Mode Discussion / Re: Which animals SHOULD be war trainable?
« on: June 22, 2019, 01:46:31 pm »
Barding  for war-trained animals is the logical conclusion, here.
Trained war monkeys.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

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It may be a bug. I know I've removed can learn and can speak via interactions, but I've never tried adding them. I would suggest changing the end so that it never ends (or ends after a very long time) and then seeing if they learn anything. You could also use dfhack to check their skill levels to see if they gain any experience
Just tried it, it unfortunately looks like a bug. So much for dogs with combat skills  :(

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DF Dwarf Mode Discussion / Re: Which animals SHOULD be war trainable?
« on: June 21, 2019, 03:24:12 am »
Why would you need to do that?  The attributes are all you need, you don't even need minimum requirements at that, just have some kind of computation that makes it increasingly unfeasible to train a given animal if it's relevant scores are not high enough.  At one point you will hit the lifespan of the animal and you have effectively set an "impossible to train" flag on it. 

This way, each animal type only needs its average and standard deviation defined for every attribute (how sentient species are done already) and the natural variance included there gives you a controlled randomization on how many of said species are trainable and to what extent, etc, on average. 
I think Fleeting Frames was speculating on how your idea could be accomplished/approximated by modders, IE without Toady intervention. When Toady One gets around to working on war animals again, your idea would be how I would like to see it implemented, as it makes a great deal of sense. I kind of hope you make a thread on the suggestion forum about it at some point.

EDIT: Fleeting Frames, not Fleeting Flames, my bad!

14
Yes, as CAN_LEARN means the creature is able to learn. Thus adding it with a Syndrome will allow it to learn
Thanks! I'm having a few issues though. I added an interaction to dogs, which targets themselves and gives a syndrome that adds CAN_LEARN for 600 ticks, but checking dfhack's labor menu shows no skill increases when they go a-biting; adding CAN_SPEAK definitely doesn't work, taking control in arena while infected results in "A dog cannot speak". Could this be a bug or have I modded this wrongly? I can say for sure they have the syndrome, because I made it so their tile flashes while infected.

in dog creature definition:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
in interaction_standard:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

an interaction that basically makes any personaility facet that is concerning bravery to be dropped really low
That's pretty clever. Is that actually possible?

15
Two questions:
Adding CAN_LEARN with a syndrome, to dogs lets say, is that enough to allow a creature to learn skills?

Anyone know how I might go around making a creature run away from a specific vermin or creature?

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