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Messages - papyrus_eel

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DF Dwarf Mode Discussion / Re: Functional Dwarven Integrators
« on: February 20, 2017, 07:42:49 am »
Unfortunately using a reset lever causes a net loss of 1 mechanism, the pp will give 2 back when deconstructed, but the mechanism attached to the bridge connecting to the pp is still stuck. For a closed loop system the +- should be equal to zero.

Edit: I made the assumption the plate wasn't working because i thought it would automatically send an open single n ms after the trigger, leading me to assume it bugged out. Are you saying that after sending a close signal, the plate is ready to send anothet close signal without having to iterate (like how levers need to pull twice)?

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DF Dwarf Mode Discussion / Re: Functional Dwarven Integrators
« on: February 17, 2017, 10:02:42 am »
I just happen to be interested in computing and programming, and by figuring out how the game works i can learn some fundamental concepts.

@mike

Re: chained conditions

The analogy I'm thinking of is database efficiency. The purpose of caching is to preclude queries to the entire database. Since the order list is always smaller than the item list, it should hypothetically be more efficient to query. But since I don't know how toady implements search, i can't actually say that for sure. It's only speculation.

As far as cancellations, it's caused by dwarves dropping job items down bottomless pits or on top of trees. My standing orders claim death items, so it's just easier to buffer the job items than to hunt down every single inaccessible one. I also get what you're saying about single orders, I use that for anything that rots, since an item check only processes the modulus of the order size, leaving the remainder to rot.

@fleeting frames

The real reason I want to use an integrator is to learn how to build one in the first place. These are things that used to be done by engineers as statr sponsored megaprojects, that someone on the internet can find an easy tool to do it is just amazing.

I know what you mean about pressure plates being finicky, i can program them in principle, but in practice they always seem to mess up. For example my drawbridge sends the close signal all right, but it doesn't send the open signal after the stimulus ends, meaning i have to deconstruct both to reclaim the mechanism. But in theory the close signal should activate just as the enemy traverses the causeway, flinging them into the air, and reset itself after.

For the population sensor, i suppose i could put it in the trap filled maze next to the entrance that dwarves seem to path through on occasion. Extrapolating that weak signal seems more trouble than it's worth honestly, except to establish in principle that it can be done.

Of course it would be far simpler to write a dfhack query to the actual population size, and put that in the conditions screen.

@ taptap

See above.






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DF Dwarf Mode Discussion / Functional Dwarven Integrators
« on: February 14, 2017, 01:43:44 pm »
"An integrator in measurement and control applications is an element whose output signal is the time integral of its input signal. It accumulates the input quantity over a defined time to produce a representative output."

I've been reading up on soviet water integrators, and I've been wondering about using DF as a didactic tool to learn how to set up simple integrator circuits. Currently the manager screen (i'm also using dfhack) allows one to set limits and watch certain stocks to indicate demand, but that only allows a pseudo automation that essentially relies on large surplus buffers of just about everything. I tend to leave the game running while doing other tasks, everything works fine. I just want to find ways of (A) improving fps effficiency, and (B) using more advanced automation for fine tuning.

 Is it more processor efficient to chain order conditions (to other orders), or does the order still query the entire parameter list daily?. Because if it is more efficient, it's possible to query the reagants list in the 1st chain link, and all subsequent orders in the production chain only need an order linkage, since the reagants' state was already cached by the 1st order (as TRUE).

Other applications I've found is the implementation of a simple dwarven calendar. If you set a yearly mint of coins, those coins will have the name of the year on them. If the furnace is linked to a sans-bin stockpile, each individual tile will upon k-look display the year of minting, and the entire stockpile becomes an active screen calendar.

Of course the classic analog mode integrator involves water. For whatever reason, it's hard to find a variable that corresponds directly to fortress population (unless i'm missing something). However, demand is essentially a linear function of fortress population (trust me, i'm an economist), and it's hard to model that using stocks since stock buffers less than ten tend to cause cancellation spam due to hauler idiocy. But it is possible to obtain an estimate of fortress population by placing pressure plates along a main thoroughfare, precisely accounting for delay and water flow, opening a floodgate to a sealed chamber, the integer count of signals equals (water total)/(water per signal) = p, and p/Population gives the percentage of traffic through the area, which can be accounted for by trivial conversion later when initializing finalized params.

The problem with water integration is one of extracting the data once processed. For example, the pressure plate in the sealed chamber, when full, releases the water pressure, which can open a door to a locked stockpile (a really, really convoluted way of managing production by supply), or even more simply, the water releases pressure which sends the contents of a food stockpile down the corridor, through a shaft, falling onto a filtration grate located within the dining room of your safely imprisoned evil monarch (quantum stockpiling without dumping, since after pop 30 my dwarves stopped giving a damn about dumping for some reason).

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DF Modding / Re: [MODDING] CREATURE & ENTITY QUESTIONS THREAD
« on: February 14, 2017, 12:55:31 pm »
I did a dynamic keyword search for *lever in the raws and could not find it. Can someone spot me the raws for levers? I'd like to set levers to be able to link to other levers. This is hugely important. This allows for master and slave control switches. It's currently possible to do the same thing by programming architecturally, putting 1 lever at the end of a corridor and filling that corridor with pressure plates, but that's procedural as all hell and really annoying (plus it needs a dynamic entrance to prevent the lever puller from resetting all the pressure plates when he leaves).

It's also annoying to set up mixed state levers. For example, when the main gate closes, the door to the trap filled maze should open, but single levers can only send an open or close signal, and cannot maintain a mixed state, but hypothetically two levers controlled by a single lever should be able to have open and closed states at the same time, because the original open/close only corresponds to the the direction of the target lever. ( i honestly need to test this, it's possible that it could force the down chain levers to the same state regardless)

tl;dr I'm looking for a way to send a "clopen" or close-open signal.

How do you guys usually split your signals, btw?

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