Bay 12 Games Forum

Sorry, folks!

Couldn't get DF to run smoothly since the update that allowed the window sizes to be changed, and this particular fort was already running slow as hell back then. So I'll have to leave the list for now, or at least until I get my new iMac. 

So yeah, call in the next vict-- err, administrator!

Quote from: Davion on August 01, 2008, 03:05:50 pm

But I guess this is going to turn into a debate about whether or not debating good/bad hacking is worthwhile.

We should debate this turn of events.

Even more because big gaming companies usually can stand something putting a small dent on their sales. Toady doesn't have nearly as much leeway in this situation.

It does matter, actually. Imagine this:

Dwarf Fortress becomes more and more complex, receiving the occasional interface updates just to keep up with its features. At some point, someone comes up with a really powerful program using memory hacking. This program is so good, no one but the hardcore ASCII-forever-and-Toady-for-prez (humour intended) players can or want to play without it. 75% of the userbase (hypothetical number) is then reliant on this very popular 3rd party application that breaks pretty much everytime the game is updated, generating enormous pressure on both the modder (who might not mind doing it) and Toady (who probably minds) to keep things running smoothly, even though they won't cooperate directly.

Not a very good situation, really. So there has to be some sort of limit so the situation won't escape Toady's control. There has to be a line people agree not to cross with their modifications/applications, otherwise the only solution would be banning those methods altogether. And if DF became impervious (or at least resistant) to memory-hacking only after the userbase started relying too much on a third-party application, the backlash would be catastrophic. Think about the "THIS SUCKS!" topics you see every time something is nerfed in any game (such as WoW). We'd then see something like that over here, and I think I'm safe to assume no one wants that.

So, yes: discussion on what should and should not be done must happen early in the development. Players absolutely hate it when something they like is taken away from them (for whatever reasons there would be), so it's better not to let them become spoiled with things that might need to be removed later on.

And people seem quite willing to do trial and error while modding DF, so there is even less need for official support: just give them the basic information and they'll figure everything else out by testing it.


By the way, can we stop with the accusations? They just throw people on the defensive and start flame wars.

Well, the proccess should go like this:

1- Toady provides us with the clay.
2- We designate a farm.
3- A modder comes around and plants the projects.
4-
5- Mods!

No, wait...

Now this is amusing.

Toady, who (at least according to some people here) has all the reasons to be angry/ frustrated/ annoyed, is being perfectly civil and understanding about the whole issue, providing rather interesting developer insight while at it.

Some of his "defenders", on the other hand... 

I do believe we still have plenty of sharp-toothed fish in the river, why not try to cage a few of them and put them in the Foe Flusher? That should keep you busy for a while.

Quote from: Omega2 on July 30, 2008, 10:32:01 pm

Quote from: Torak on July 30, 2008, 10:26:31 pm

We can report posts?

There should be a "Report to Moderator" link on the bottom-right of every post.

Yes, there should be. We should suggest it to toady.

I said that in the sense that "there is" a Report to Moderator link on the bottom-right of every post.

At least here, that is. Maybe it's not showing up on your browser, for some reason. What are you using?