Bay 12 Games Forum

It is impossible to have a real discussion with you because you have a religious belief in the open-source movement.  You think there should be no such thing as intellectual property and that all source code should be totally free.  As someone who actually creates software for a living, the idea of just letting people have my work because they think they are entitled to it is obviously absurd.

I just like the idea of df, but I find it very disgraceful that it stalls because of developer and community being stubbornly conservative.

I'll go to sleep now, I have work tomorrow.

Quote from: nogibator on June 04, 2012, 03:25:12 pm

Quote from: Tyler6498 on June 04, 2012, 03:20:08 pm

Nogibator, would you be willing to give me access to all of your finances? It is only right that we make the open source so we can make it so much better than it already is! Also if you want an open source game of DF the closest I can give you is Dungeon Master on byond, and that game went severely downhill when it went open source.

(I know some of you will diss that game but, if it wasn't for that very byond game I would have never found DF.)

I don't store my finances in form of information, because it's stupid and gives banks freedom to create money virtually from air. I receive my pay in paper currency, and would be willing to go with something more physical, like gold coins, if our government wasn't so fascist.

But the banks deserve the rights to your finances just like how the government has the open source to use anything except gold coins you leftist nut.
Although by now I'm pretty sure this guy is just a troll now.

You are just spewing nonsense. Government have open-source for coins? What?

Also you people seem to have great internet discussion tactics:
1. insult you opponent
2. if he isn't lovering himself to your level of argumentation call him a troll
3. repeat

Ok. In that case, there would be no income at all from things like software, music, any media really. Because everyone would just claim it was their's and they didn't have to pay for it.

Therefore, they wouldn't exist.

You may not be able to imagine it, but true artists don't work for money, they work for the sake of expressing themselves, that's why it's called art. Also people are willing to donate for people who actually makes good art. Like people here, who donate for df which is not free but free to download. By your logic no one would be donating to df since you can just download it. So called "Intellectual property" leads to abominations like justin bieber making money off plainly disgusting "art" and things like trajectories(google recent boeing lawsuit) getting legally banned from other people.

Nogibator, would you be willing to give me access to all of your finances? It is only right that we make the open source so we can make it so much better than it already is! Also if you want an open source game of DF the closest I can give you is Dungeon Master on byond, and that game went severely downhill when it went open source.

(I know some of you will diss that game but, if it wasn't for that very byond game I would have never found DF.)

I don't store my finances in form of information, because it's stupid and gives banks freedom to create money virtually from air. I receive my pay in paper currency, and would be willing to go with something more physical, like gold coins, if our government wasn't so fascist.

Quote from: nogibator on June 04, 2012, 03:08:21 pm

How do you even fit in the society with such ideology.

HAHAHAH!

How do you fit in society!?

Do you walk around telling people you refuse to buy their products because you can't do whatever you want with them? Because they made them?
I refuse to buy this game because it's not open source! I refuse to buy this movie, they didn't let me film it.
You know what, screw this! I'm going to refuse to buy food until someone lets me farm it myself.

I just don't use proprietary software as well as i don't support people who act against freedom and good will. You can call it idiocy if you will, but i call it strength of character. Also freedom of information doesn't apply to material goods and such arguments are plainly stupid.

Are you stupid, or just trolling?

Dwarf Fortress is his baby.  This is what he does, what he devotes his time and creativity to.  By rights he could and probably should keep it to himself rather than subject it to the ravages of the loud, ignorant, and probably drooling masses of folk like yourself.  But he doesn't.  He actively encourages modding the game and puts a lot in to make it easy.   Hell, the files to edit game functions are the best-documented part of the whole thing. And when somebody comes up with some very good ideas and shares them with him, such as the research on densities and thermal tolerance on stone by -- I want to say Uristocrat, but not sure -- those may find their way into the game.  You've got no place to demand anything from him, and a very weak foundation on which to be making such a request.

This post composed in Firefox 12.0 for Ubuntu 12.04.  Bitch.

Ritchard Stallman and other hackers and programmers have been doing the same, with the same passion, but were respecting freedom, and it worked out just as good, if not better. Why are you people so close-minded? We're people, not wolves, it's not like everybody wants to hurt you and steal from you. How do you even fit in the society with such ideology.

Also by same logic you have no right to use free software while actively advocating against it.

Quote from: nogibator on June 04, 2012, 02:41:09 pm

Also why are you so aggressive?

I'm not being more aggressive than:

Quote

WHY TOADY WON'T RESPECT OUR FREEDOM?

He is under absolutely no obligation to do anything for you.  Its his property.  Somehow you seem to think that your "Freedom" is being threatened because a guy won't give out his property to you.  That is frankly just silly.

Why not ask Blizzard for the source code to Diablo 3 and Activision for the source code of MW3 while you are at it?

That's wrong! You haven't heard about free software and non-free software, do you?
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html

1. free software doesn't mean "giving" your code to anybody. It means making software free to run, copy, distribute, study, change and improve.
2. It's our responsibility to press the developers to make software free, for the good of everybody. Free software is part of freedom in modern society. When people stop fighting for their freedom- at that moment their freedom is often taken away.

Also Blizzard and Activision are pillars of evil and i boycott their products therefore.

I wanted to start this theme for a while now.

Why Toady keeps df proprietary, when he isn't selling it anyway? Why don't he turn to progressive open-source development? And i mean, if he was a genius-level autistic programmer it could be reasonable to code hundreds of features in his own style and keep lesser men from interrupting, but he is not. Dwarf Fortress is well known for it's issues, there is active feature poll, and it all could be programmed much better and faster, by orders of magnitude, if Toady only turned to repository-based open source development. There are dozens of people here who mod and hack this game as much as they can and they would help develop it.

Toady- I'd like to ask you directly- you claim to be building the game with limitless possibilities. Why don't you let others help?

Are you afraid that somebody may steal your code? But people spew df-clones out at great rate- there are direct clones, there are things like game of dwarves and towns, minecraft, they don't need your code to rip off ideas. Are you afraid that people stop donating? But they didn't go to any other games from dwarf fortress, they won't go to any fork because it's the community that donates you money, and community won't go anywhere from bay12forums.
If that's it, if you are killing this magnificent game because of greed for several thousands dollars- then this is the stupidest monetization method I've ever seen.

And i'd like to urge all the bayers to boycott Toady for disrespecting our freedom. Do not donate- help us make Dwarf fortress better.