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Messages - FearfulJesuit

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1
General Discussion / Re: Latin American Politics: Press F to pay respects
« on: October 28, 2018, 09:32:30 pm »
Probably smack Pakistan around diplomatically and make them cough up Bin Laden.

Yeah, Pakistan is a longer-term problem. They knew where Bin Laden was, they've been harboring and funding insurgents to fight a proxy war against us, and they shouldn't be allowed to have nukes any more than your average twelve-year-old should be allowed to own a gun.

Backing Reelya's post, too. It wasn't the intervention that was the problem. It was the execution. We could have done things much better and didn't.

2
General Discussion / Re: Latin American Politics: Press F to pay respects
« on: October 28, 2018, 09:25:34 pm »
Quote
What if we'd engaged in a campaign of detalibanization and enforced liberalism outside of Kabul?

"be liberal or die" that sort of thing? What an oxymoron.

"Forced liberalism" in Afghanistan would entail bringing in enough westerners to enact a complete martial-law government, with massive amounts of security personnel, and a surveillance state. The end result isn't "forced liberalism" at all despite whatever intentions were in place, the end result would be a technocratic surveillance police state with capitalism.

Do you believe that if an American head of household keeps his daughter cloistered in the basement without an education and marries her off at 10, that he should be allowed to do so without any intervention?

Why should the moral reality change when you move from the US to Afghanistan?

The US has the power to protect the weak and innocent from the capricious use of state power by evil men. If human rights mean anything, they mean that the power implies the duty. Again: we enforced liberalism at gunpoint in postwar Germany. Were we wrong?

Do you think a military solution is THE solution to use everytime? Like our only solution should be to bomb and invade the heck out of others?

No, particularly when we're talking about countries with nukes, where the calculus completely changes. But a military solution was the right solution in Afghanistan. The occupation was executed poorly, but that doesn't refute the concept. The question to ask from Afghanistan isn't "did this refute interventionism?" but "knowing what we know now, if we could travel back to September 12, 2001, how would we intervene differently?"

I do think a military solution is probably justified in Saudi Arabia, between 9/11, Yemen, the Khashoggi incident, and tampering with global warming action--every minute the house of Saud continues to rule is a black mark on the West. In Iran it's trickier because the average citizen is pretty pro-American and the régime, while it commits atrocities, could be far worse. The solution to Iran is to keep sanction pressure up, but not to isolate the people, and let everybody know that as soon as they decide to to liberalize or have a revolution, they'll get all the help they want and be inducted into the free world immediately.

3
General Discussion / Re: Latin American Politics: Press F to pay respects
« on: October 28, 2018, 09:19:16 pm »
Quote
What if we'd engaged in a campaign of detalibanization and enforced liberalism outside of Kabul?

"be liberal or die" that sort of thing? What an oxymoron.

"Forced liberalism" in Afghanistan would entail bringing in enough westerners to enact a complete martial-law government, with massive amounts of security personnel, and a surveillance state. The end result isn't "forced liberalism" at all despite whatever intentions were in place, the end result would be a technocratic surveillance police state with capitalism.

Do you believe that if an American head of household keeps his daughter cloistered in the basement without an education and marries her off at 10, that he should be allowed to do so without any intervention?

Why should the moral reality change when you move from the US to Afghanistan?

The US has the power to protect the weak and innocent from the capricious use of state power by evil men. If human rights mean anything, they mean that the power implies the duty. Again: we enforced liberalism at gunpoint in postwar Germany. Were we wrong?

4
General Discussion / Re: Latin American Politics: Press F to pay respects
« on: October 28, 2018, 08:58:43 pm »
We interfered in elections in postwar France and Italy to keep the communists out, and we were right. We should have interfered in the 1933 Reichstag elections, and we would have been right in invading after Hitler remilitarized the Rhineland. We should have interfered when Ukraine starved in the 1930s. We should have intervened in Syria when Assad used sarin. We would be vindicated right now if we were to invade Saudi Arabia and send the royal family to the Hague.
The fact that interventionism has so often been used for evil purposes doesn't write it off as a principle. Human rights don't exist unless somebody enforces them. Brazil has no nukes and a military that is a threat only to its own citizens.
We have the power to restore and maintain liberalism, and with the power comes the duty.
America did intervene in Syria, Iraq and Libya, to the point where it's a fucking meme at this point where you can continually destabilise countries and install a foreign regime backed by US military power and intelligence in the name of freedom. Because nothing says liberalism quite like reverting a democratic vote through the CIA.
Old democracies are not made overnight. It takes stability, practice and generations. The USA has the power to stop blowing up everyone, and with that power comes the duty to stop blowing everyone up. Living under the shadow of American hegemony will merely create more millions who are disillusioned with American liberalism without having altered the fundamentals which caused them to disagree in the first place, completely disregarding whether disagreeing is a just mandate to execute whatever foreigners you want. The "everyday until you like it" approach does not work, especially when you're killing leaders who:
1. Have popular support.
2. Get more popular for surviving assassination attempts.
To replace them with a leader drawn from the previous failure of an establishment, WHO CREATED the mess which has made Bolsonaro popular to begin with. Not every problem can be solved with more bombs and assassination, American investment would do more to help create a strong Brazilian middle class than blowing up all of the leaders they support would ever do in a thousand lifetimes

Counterpoint: Germany after the war.

I agree that we've tended to make a mess of things recently, as in Iraq and Afghanistan. But I think the experience of postwar Europe should tell us that the real problem wasn't that we intervened too much but that we were unwilling to commit to the intervention. Liberalism won in Germany, in large part, because we enforced liberalism and engaged in ruthless denazification of the country's institutions. We didn't let Germany try Nazism again after the war. That's a good thing.

What if we'd engaged in a campaign of detalibanization and enforced liberalism outside of Kabul?

(And of course, we poured vast amounts of money into Germany after the war, too. We should have done that in Afghanistan. Nothing makes people like you more than free money; a $200/month welfare check per Afghan household in villages that don't harbor insurgents and treat their women fairly would have been a cheaper, and more lasting, way of getting people to like us than trying to wage a guerilla campaign.)

5
General Discussion / Re: Latin American Politics: Press F to pay respects
« on: October 28, 2018, 08:40:32 pm »
Under any other US administration I'd say the CIA should assassinate Bolsonaro and install a liberal puppet government. But we don't have the moral authority.
Is there any point where you have the moral authority to assassinate world leaders to install puppet governments

Seems like a dick move that will have long term consequence literally every time it has ever been done

We interfered in elections in postwar France and Italy to keep the communists out, and we were right. We should have interfered in the 1933 Reichstag elections, and we would have been right in invading after Hitler remilitarized the Rhineland. We should have interfered when Ukraine starved in the 1930s. We should have intervened in Syria when Assad used sarin. We would be vindicated right now if we were to invade Saudi Arabia and send the royal family to the Hague.

The fact that interventionism has so often been used for evil purposes doesn't write it off as a principle. Human rights don't exist unless somebody enforces them. Brazil has no nukes and a military that is a threat only to its own citizens.

We have the power to restore and maintain liberalism, and with the power comes the duty.

You have it backwards, the US installs the fascists not the democracy.

Past performance doesn't, and shouldn't, dictate future results. (Though it is one of the few small mercies of this administration that it's isolationist, because I don't even want to think about what an interventionist Trump would do.)

Honestly though, I think we should stay completely out of it (militarily wise anyway and possibly CIA stuff) and let Brazil make the same mistakes we did on their own continent.

Glad to know the thousands who're going to be killed under the Bolsonaro régime can be comforted by the fact that other people minded their own business.

6
General Discussion / Re: Latin American Politics: Press F to pay respects
« on: October 28, 2018, 08:32:40 pm »
Under any other US administration I'd say the CIA should assassinate Bolsonaro and install a liberal puppet government. But we don't have the moral authority.
Is there any point where you have the moral authority to assassinate world leaders to install puppet governments

Seems like a dick move that will have long term consequence literally every time it has ever been done

We interfered in elections in postwar France and Italy to keep the communists out, and we were right. We should have interfered in the 1933 Reichstag elections, and we would have been right in invading after Hitler remilitarized the Rhineland. We should have interfered when Ukraine starved in the 1930s. We should have intervened in Syria when Assad used sarin. We would be vindicated right now if we were to invade Saudi Arabia and send the royal family to the Hague.

The fact that interventionism has so often been used for evil purposes doesn't write it off as a principle. Human rights don't exist unless somebody enforces them. Brazil has no nukes and a military that is a threat only to its own citizens.

We have the power to restore and maintain liberalism, and with the power comes the duty.

7
General Discussion / Re: Latin American Politics: Press F to pay respects
« on: October 28, 2018, 08:23:21 pm »
Under any other US administration I'd say the CIA should assassinate Bolsonaro and install a liberal puppet government. But we don't have the moral authority.

8
Right-oh, first idea group.

No votes for Administrative, Diplomatic or Offensive. Twelve total.

1-3 will give us Trade; 4-5 Exploration; 6-8 Economic; 9 innovative; 10 or 11 Aristocratic; 12 Quantity.



And exploration it is!

9
Play With Your Buddies / Re: FearfulJesuit plays EU4: Denmark!
« on: October 13, 2017, 04:27:29 am »
The Reign of Christopher III: 1449-1460

The 1450s, wrote a later historian, were nothing short of disastrous for Denmark.



Saddled by debt from the war with Novgorod and its prestige entirely sapped among the courts of Europe, the 1450s saw the once-proud Danish army whittled down to virtually nothing, the abandonment of the country's forts, and--most importantly--the War of Swedish Independence, which saw Jemtland, Gotland and Smålenene ceded to the new Swedish crown. The annexation of Holstein comprised a small bright spot in this decade of woe.

<narrator>Yeah, it's been one of those turns.</narrator>

Start with the money, Rødgrød would later tell his dinner guests after his exile to northern Norway. Once the war with Novgorod was finished, we found ourselves broke--so I suggested that the king mothball the forts. An invasion of Gotland seemed unlikely.



Worked for a while. And a gift from the Polish throne helped us along, as well. We paid a couple of loans off.



The problem, though...the problem is that Christopher can't keep his fingers out of other pies. We're walking a fine line, and we didn't have the sheer clout to do whatever we wanted. Which explained why he launched an investigation into going to war over Novgorod...



...and nearly got us into war with the Teutonic Order over Danzig in 1451. In fairness, it would have been a great time to jump for it if we'd had the cash. The Poles were whupping their asses.



But we didn't have the money on hand, and like hell I was going to take out more loans to finance another war. He backed down.

We'd also heard about a new concept called the 'Renaissance' that had been developed in northern Italy, in Verona. He wanted to develop Sjælland and take out loans to 'embrace' it. I said no. He backed down on that, too, thankfully.



Of course, Christopher wasn't getting any younger, by this point. Holstein made us an offer we couldn't refuse to put a relative of theirs in line to avoid a nasty succession war. Came with a nice bit of pocket change.



I immediately set to work getting them annexed. The last thing we need is Holstein pressing a claim to Denmark's throne down the line. That was done by 1455.



And then...in the spring of 1457, we started getting reports that the Swedes were really getting restless. The Scottish ambassador disappeared without a word. 'Let the Swedes go,' I told the king. 'It's not worth the misery.' He was sick of listening to me, so...I got kicked out and got sent up here.

And I was right. That June the Swedes pulled the trigger.


We didn't have the manpower or the money to fight them, or the Scots. Never mind.



And, to be sure, we won a couple of battles.



But we didn't have anything resembling the capacity to take Stockholm and risk another war. And the winter of '57 was a bitch. So, by April...



...we had to cede some provinces, too. Couldn't just give them independence. They wanted blood.

So here we are in the year of our lord 1460...Sweden's friendly, Poles and Brandenburg are allies, most everyone else is somewhere between 'hates our guts' and 'dislikes us'.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

There's some hope that there might be some new ideas coming down the pipe in the administration, though. No idea what. They don't tell me anything anymore.

<narratorvoice>So, yeah, I should just have cut Sweden off early and saved myself a lot of pain.

I think we have potential, though. Norway's not going anywhere, and we can cannabalize what's left of Novgorod. It would be nice if we could take the province of Novgorod, too--Muscovy's currently got it, but taking it would keep them from ever forming Russia. And we've just hit Admin Tech 5, which means we can unlock our first idea group. That's in the poll, now.</narratorvoice>

10
Play With Your Buddies / Re: FearfulJesuit plays EU4: Denmark!
« on: October 10, 2017, 02:33:07 pm »
Slowly working on the next part; I've been distracted by work and a new (probable; we're both horribly indecisive people) girlfriend.

11
Play With Your Buddies / Re: FearfulJesuit plays EU4: Denmark!
« on: October 05, 2017, 05:02:53 am »
Spoiler: A queen! (click to show/hide)

A good deal of fanfare, most of it orchestrated by Rødgrød himself, accompanied the bonds of Danish-Lithuanian matrimony and subsequent alliance. Morta was renowned as an unusually learned sort, acting almost as second-in-command in her father's administration of the country. And Christopher...well, he didn't dislike her, exactly, it seemed. Rødgrød remarked over the coming months that things could have gone much worse.

Of course, Morta had her dark side. Various chambermaids and servants could be heard gossiping in corners about the Queen's cruelty and sadistic treatment of her inferiors.

Well, thought Rødgrød, peasants will be peasants...

If the royal wedding hadn't confirmed that Christopher III's reign had finally come into its own, the opening months of 1445 silenced any doubters. On the fifth of February, the upstart pretender Gryf landed in Gønge. At first, the Danish forces assembled to meet him seemed to flail in the face of an army half their size...


...but in the ensuing hours they regained their bravery and defeated Gryf, chasing him to Bleking, where he was finished off.


To the east, however, the world was changing. That June, the Polish nobles overseeing the interregnum period invited the king of Lithuania to take the Polish throne, making Lithuania a junior partner in personal union and nullifying its never-invoked Danish alliance.



I'm sure the Poles will find an alliance perfectly acceptable with a bit of persuasion, thought Rødgrød, and sent a new ambassador to Warsaw to spend several years schmoozing with the Polish court.

Not three months later, news arrived from even further east: Muscovy had invaded Novgorod.



The perfect opportunity, thought Rødgrød. Within hours, the Novgorodian ambassador had been banished from Copenhagen with a declaration of war in hand.



Of course, war didn't come cheap. The main portion of the Danish army was still tied up in Gotland, besieging Gryf's last and most desperate acolytes. The only thing for it was to raise a new army, and that took cash...



I'm sure we can pay them back once the peace deal comes through, thought Rødgrød. In any case, the king still had some Bavarian holdings whose rents were now flowing into the Danish coffers, to the tune of 8 ducats a year.



Just in time, too.



Ten days into the year of our lord 1446, news arrived that Gotland had finally fallen after eight and a half months of waiting.



That meant ten more regiments newly ready to join the war; the royal Navy obligingly ferried them to Vyborg, and the territory surrounding the mouth of the Neva had fallen by April.



Over the following six months, Danish and Swedish armies occupied the Kola peninsula and most of the land around lake Ladoga with nary a peep from the Novgorodian armies. Novgorod, however, stubbornly insisted that Neva would never be given up so long as Danish flags were absent from Novgorodian castles...

...hard to pull off, since Muscovy was besieging Luki and Novgorod itself.

During the summer of the campaign, moreover, luck smiled upon the court.



It soon became clear--to Rødgrød, at least, if not the king himself--that the child hadn't a kingly bone in his body. In Rødgrød's opinion, which became stronger by the day, it would be better to plunge the kingdom into uncertainty again than to allow the dull-witted and sickly Frederik to succeed his father. The royal astrologer, when pressed, confirmed as much. A bumbling maidservant was drafted to take the blame for the prince's unfortunate disappearance during a stroll through the royal woods.



The news sent shock waves throughout the courts of Europe; Danish artists were quietly dropped from kings' rosters as the kingdom's prestige sank like a stone.



Not that Rødgrød cared. He had bigger fish to fry.

1447 opened with fortunate news: Muscovy and Novgorod reached a peace agreement in March, ceding Novgorod itself and leaving Luki and the capital fort of Kholmogory as the only remaining obstacles to a peace deal. Rødgrød hoped he could have the thing in the bag by Christmas by taking Luki.

But it didn't turn out that way. Luki did indeed fall that December, leaving Novgorod itself in control only of Kholmogory and Mezen, another god-forsaken province in the far north...but no troops reached Kholmogory until October 1447, and the long arctic winter was favorable to Novgorod.

It didn't help that the Swedes weren't in any mood to help out.



At least England was in no shape to pull off anything of the sort.



Finally, in November of 1448, Kholmogory fell, and a peace treaty was signed the next day.



So, one port down, two to go. But the kingdom's finances were in dire straits--the ducats won from the Novgorodian peace treaty had only been able to pay for two loans, and there were still four outstanding--and the Swedes were getting restless. It was going to be a difficult peace.



12
Play With Your Buddies / Re: FearfulJesuit plays EU4: Denmark!
« on: October 04, 2017, 03:05:52 pm »
The Reign of Christopher III: November 11, 1444


The morning of November 11, 1444 dawned grey, cold and wet, as November mornings usually dawn in Denmark. First Minister Rødgrød looked onto the Baltic from his mansion overlooking the Copenhagen harbor and reflected on the position of the kingdom he administrated--a position which, like the weather, was frustrating and somewhat depressing, though not disastrous. King Christopher III, a German import in the middle of his fourth year in power, was not exactly the sharpest knife in the box--though he'd managed the administative side of things reasonably well, as long as that meant letting Rødgrød make the decisions, his military and diplomatic instincts were decidedly mediocre at best.

He was, moreover, decidedly uninterested in finding a suitably powerful wife or producing an heir, preferring the somewhat worrying company of lusty squires.

All very well at twenty-eight, but one joust gone wrong and civil war was inevitable, particularly considering the restlessness of his Swedish subjects.

Indeed, a ne'er-do-well member of the lower ranks of the nobility named Eric Gryf had got it into his head to take the throne for himself, and had occupied Gotland with ten thousand of his followers. The latest news was that they were planning a showdown in Gønge.

Additionally, the news had arrived just that past Sunday that the duchy of Novgorod had severed diplomatic ties with Copenhagen, joining England and Scotland as sworn enemies of the kingdom.

He made a mental note to have the Danish ambassadors recalled home, assuming they hadn't already been kicked out.


Rødgrød ordered a double jug of ale with the usual breakfast of rye bread and herring. It was going to be that kind of morning.

-Your Majesty, I would like to request an audience.

-Ah, Rødgrød. Yes, about that hunting trip, I presume. Wonderful boar this year, they say.

-No, your Majesty. It's...do you recall Bishop Døbdøb's recent sermon on matrimony?

-Mmm, never really liked theology, my boy. Can't understand it, you know. Wonderful stuff, I've heard. Did you know they've proven God must have created a boar so tasty that no boar tastier can possibly be imagined?

-Your majesty, it's a matter of state security.

-Ohhhhhhh, said the King, his usual jovial expression sharpening into a frown.

-What would happen, said Rødgrød, if you were to die tomorrow?

-Oh, well I'm sure I'd go to heaven, my boy. I hope they have boar there.

-To the kingdom, sire! To the kingdom!

-Ooooooooooooh, said the King, the fourth and final jigsaw piece snapping into place. This is about my...confirmed bachelorhood, I see.

-I personally don't care how many squires you have in your retinue, your Majesty, but if you have no Queen, and no heir, the kingdom will fall into civil war. The Swedes will almost certainly try to break free, though thank God the Norwegians probably don't have the nerve to.


Alternatively, thought Rødgrød, his chest shrinking in upon itself, that Gryf upstart takes the throne. At least Christopher has never tried to ride into battle with his head facing the horse's tail...


-My boy, I've been thinking about that myself for some time. Who are our allies, again?

-Ah, well, ahem, as you, ah, well know, your Majesty, there's, uhhhhhhh...

Rødgrød racked his brains. Didn't the Brandenburgian ambassador make some sort of...overture about cooperating in the near future at the last harvest festival? Oh well, let's hope I don't have to backtrack on this. Not that he'll care. Or remember.


-Well, as you surely recall, your Majesty, we've been allied with Brandenburg for years now, though we never got around to arranging a royal marriage. Or going to war together.

-Are we really? What a stroke of luck, Rødgrød. You'd find me a wife, then?

-That's the hope, your Majesty.

-And I'd have to do the...you know...

-Only until she gives you a son, your Majesty.

-Oh, well that's not so bad, I suppose. You do always know best. Off you go, Rødgrød, and take care.

Rødgrød breathed a sigh of relief once out of the throne room. Yes, I do always know best...thank god you've got the sense not to interfere with what I'm doing behind the curtains.

Unlimited leeway thus given, Rødgrød walked back to his office and dictated several memos. One to the Minister of War asking him to recruit a decent general for the inevitable showdown with Gryf; one to the Brandenburgian court proposing the establishment and immediate backdating of an alliance; and one to the head of the merchant's guild in Copenhagen proposing that Danish trade outposts be established in the Baltic and in Novgorod to encourage the development of trade flowing towards Copenhagen.

Indeed, why stop there?



Lübeck, Danzig, and the mouth of the Neva would be splendid additions to the Danish realm, though a couple of wars would have to be fought to get it done. Neva was by far the easiest; the duchy of Novgorod was in a protracted on-and-off spat with Muscovy to its south, which was by far the stronger of the two, and all that was needed was to wait for an opportune inter-Russian war. Danzig was going to be a tough nut to crack; alliances with Poland or Lithuania, both of which hated its Teutonic owners, could be advisable. As for Lübeck, the port city was all but encompassed by Holstein, who happened to be Danish vassals...and could probably be persuaded to become part of Denmark proper after a decade or so of largesse on the part of Copenhagen.



Rødgrød looked out on the Baltic, a faint sparkle of sunlight briefly illuminating the endless pewter. He might not live to see Denmark fully pre-eminent on the European stage, but he was damned if the limelight was never going to shine on her again.

13
Number of voters has been sitting at 8 for a couple of days, now, so I'm going to call it (mostly because I'm hoping I can get some initial discussion rolling, and because I want an excuse to not do work for fifteen minutes).

Nobody voted for Muscovy or Burgundy, so they can be struck from the record. There were 22 votes in total, so I'll ask the gods to roll a number between 1 and 22.

Tunis got two votes, so it will be picked if we roll a 1 or a 2.
Hungary got one, so it will require a roll of 3.
Ethiopia got three votes, rolled on 4, 5 or 6.
Mamluks also got three votes: 7, 8, 9.
Korea got a whopping five votes: 10-14.
Denmark got two: 15 or 16.
Lithuania got three: 17, 18 or 19.
Portugal got three: 20, 21 or 22.



And the winner is DENMARK! Before playing the first part I'll start the game and give the peanut gallery an idea of the starting situation. Expect that this evening.

14
(New thread, after the old one fell prey to the board's poll-making system being nigh-useless...)

So I've been EU4-binging somewhat recently, but the problem with long video game sessions is that they feel like wasted time. To remedy this, I'm thinking of doing a Let's Play for EU4. I'm nowhere near guru-status, but I suspect it'll be more fun that way--mistakes are entertaining.

I'd like to incorporate input from those watching, so I'm putting a poll up. I've got all the DLC except for Third Rome and Mare Nostrum, but maybe I'll get them before starting the game? Paradox games are actually entirely reasonable at Russian prices.

We'll be playing without mods, and possibly with Ironman (which would be new for me). Instead of first-past-the-post we'll be using the random ballot method for voting in polls: a number between 1 and (# of votes) will be picked randomly, and the decision taken will correspond to which option that corresponds to in the polling results. E.g. if there are six options, 25% of 12 votes go for option 1, and the machine draws a 1, 2 or 3, then option 1 gets selected (because 1, 2 and 3 are the first quarter of votes). This means that an option nobody wants can't be selected, an option everybody wants will always be selected, but polls with split votes may have an RNG effect. We'll use the voting system, at least, to select the starting country and idea groups.

We'll start in 1444, as usual, and go to 1821. I'm hoping to post around twice a week, with each turn running about 20-30 years. Alternatively I might post once per monarch.

On the basis of my own personal preferences and general balancing, the following ten nations will be options. You may vote for three, and the deadline is whenever I feel like closing the case on Friday evening Moscow time. I've decided against Ming or Ottomans, since they're OP at start and I'd like a bit of a challenge; so this list mostly comprises regional powers who nevertheless aren't completely hegemonic in their area.

Portugal
Denmark
Lithuania
Korea
Mamluks
Burgundy
Tunis
Muscovy
Ethiopia
Hungary

Pick three, and we'll choose on, probably, Friday evening Moscow time.

15
General Discussion / Re: AmeriPol thread: D. C. on summer break
« on: August 13, 2017, 02:49:06 pm »
But the President making a statement, however forceful, isn't the Government telling anyone to believe something. Politicians are allowed to have and express political beliefs; otherwise, how are they supposed to be politicians? Trump's response isn't the Establishment Clause at work, it's craven moral bankruptcy. If Neo-Nazis start getting sent without due process to re-education camps, we can talk.

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