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Messages - Xob Ludosmbax

Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 12
1
DF Dwarf Mode Discussion / Re: How to build quantum waste disposal
« on: June 10, 2014, 03:13:00 pm »
I wanted to point out that you must make sure the magma is not directly below, but rather 2 levels below.  Otherwise you get magma mist and !!FUN!! whenever a larger item gets dumped.  Also, stairs do not work.  And if you are in a reanimating biome, it is possible for something to come back to life between the time it's dumped and the time it burns up, and zombies catch fire, but do not burn up, so you may need to account for that in your design.

But otherwise, the steps are:

Create stockpile (Is the stockpile being filled with refuse?)
Create dump stop
Create route on top of dump stop
Assign minecart to route (Is there a minecart on top of the stop?)
Set route to take all refuse from stockpile and to dump immediately (Is the minecart filled with refuse?)

2
DF Dwarf Mode Discussion / Re: I've never seen a vampire in any of my fortresses.
« on: June 02, 2014, 10:34:16 am »
I have similar issues with low to no vampires when I generate pocket worlds.  I never investigated the issue, but it makes sense that world size has an effect just like world age. 

3
DF Dwarf Mode Discussion / Re: Volcano question
« on: June 01, 2014, 01:30:40 am »
Yes, a volcano will refill, and quite quickly.  In short, each empty level of the caldera will have magma spawning periodically in a seemingly random tile.  So, the bottom levels will fill a lot quicker as the magma falls in and fills them.  The top levels will fill a bit more slowly because there is less or no magma flowing into them from above.

We did some !!SCIENCE!! on building inside a volcano without draining it first here:  http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=134907.0  The same methods can be adapted to drain a volcano, although it will still refill.

4
DF Dwarf Mode Discussion / Re: So like, hypothetically...
« on: May 19, 2014, 09:59:27 am »
I remember this being discussed in the Dwarven Child Care thread; first mention here.  Searching the thread may yield more results.

5
DF Dwarf Mode Discussion / Re: can you specify/change path for saved games?
« on: March 03, 2014, 03:01:17 pm »
In case anyone wants to do it under Windows, I use junction.exe from sysinternals or linkd.exe from the MS resource kit to make the links.  (I also just discovered fsutil hardlink while googling up the URLs, but haven't used it yet.)

Also, Google Drive chokes on links, so put the original data in the GD directory, and point to it from your DF directory (or whatever - I use Pidgin, Truecrypt and Google Drive in that type of setup.)  Please feel free to ask questions if anyone actually wants to do this.

6
DF Dwarf Mode Discussion / Re: How do I dump trash in a volcano
« on: February 08, 2014, 04:47:55 pm »
I always use a minecart linked to a refuse pile similar to how a quantum stockpile works. 

7
DF Dwarf Mode Discussion / Re: Dwarven Submarines, Hollow Cave-Ins & Instant Obsidian Spires !!SCIENCE!!
« on: February 05, 2014, 12:31:25 pm »
Yes.  It produces somewhat different results.  (See http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=8391)  There may be some other configurations that produce useful results; I haven't had time to check. 

The reason it doesn't need natural stone walls is that the lower z-levels produce stone walls, and the top z-level keeps the center clear (usually).  The overlap with the edge of the magma tube allows building over SMR.  Having enough height is critical when building over SMR in that it needs to be tall enough to catch the side of the tube. 

8
DF Dwarf Mode Discussion / Re: Dwarven Submarines, Hollow Cave-Ins & Instant Obsidian Spires !!SCIENCE!!
« on: February 04, 2014, 10:03:17 pm »
An alternate method that I've been experimenting with is to build the following (cross section, support not shown)

|     _______  |
|     ||222||  |
|     |77777|  |
|     |77777|  |
|     |77777|  |
|     |77777|  |
|     |77777|  |
|           ___|
|77777777777|
|77777777777|
|77777777777|
|77777777777|
|77777777777|
|77777777777|
|77777777777|
|77777777777|
7777777777777
7777777777777
7777777777777
#############


Which gives you the following results:

|            |
|      |   ||
|      |   ||
|      |   ||
|      |   ||
|      |   ||
|      |   ||
|      |   ||
|777777|   ||
|777777|   ||
|777777|   ||
|777777|   ||
|777777|222||
|777777|___||
|777777||||||
|777777|777||
7777777777777
7777777777777
7777777777777
#############


Haven't worked up the exact numbers yet with regards to column heights, and some parts may not be required, or may be suboptimal.

9
DF Dwarf Mode Discussion / Re: Dwarven Submarines, Hollow Cave-Ins & Instant Obsidian Spires !!SCIENCE!!
« on: February 04, 2014, 02:15:11 am »
Very exciting results.  It's a pity my dreams of paving the ocean are smashed.  I updated the topic title accordingly.

Can you provide some more details on these two points?

Quote from: Ravendarksky on February 03, 2014, 08:27:01 pm
- Roofs are not needed
- Floors can be made of anything
Specifically, what does your roofless structure look like?  Does "Made of anything" include constructed floors or just non-obsidian? 

I've made some minor progress as well. 

Using the inverted water pyramid:
- The outer shell can be made with constructed walls.  (Making it much easier to do without dfhack.)
- The floors still need to be cast, but the lower levels can remain as unmined walls.
- Casting just the roof doesn't work.  (Everything gets swallowed by the SMR)
- Making it with no roof gives you a solid obisidan spire. 

Also, once you get your hollow tube, you can build your glass submarine inside of it; deep within the volcano.  Then use Dwarven Power Mining to remove most of the outer obsidian.  Leaving you with a glass fortress suspended inside the caldera.

(Incidentally, if anyone is wondering, the reason 2/7 water is important is so that our dwarven passengers won't drown.  Nothing magical.)

10
DF Dwarf Mode Discussion / Re: Dwarven Submarines,Hollow Cave-Ins,Instant Spires & Paving the Ocean !!SCIENCE!!
« on: February 02, 2014, 07:53:00 am »
Sorry, I was in a rush when I posted.  I had two new techniques.  I relied on the fact that if you drop water on magma where the magma is in contact with the side wall of the volcano, it will turn into obsidian and not cave-in. 


For the first technique, we start off by draining the volcano.  This is pretty simple, you just drop a water sandwich[1] down the middle of the volcano.  It will turn all of the magma into obsidian, which caves in and falls into the SMR and disappears.  Then we allow the tube to re-fill to the desired height.  Finally, we drop water into the volcano, making sure that at least one edge of the water is up against the edge of the tube.  The water that is against the side of the tube will hit the magma, turn into obsidian, and will not cave-in because it is supported by the edge of the tube. 

Unfortunately, water does not fall evenly, so creating a larger platform may be troublesome.  If you drop all the water at once, you may end up with some holes in your platform.  I did in my test.  If you drop the water a little at a time, the magma may refill too quickly, not allowing you to finish the platform.  I didn't test this.


For the second technique, I created a spire without draining the volcano first.  I tried to duplicate this under controlled conditions, and haven't had any luck yet. 


Also, to answer your earlier question "Can you make a lever which times the dwarfs exit and then very specifically does another action after a series of ticks"; I would use minecarts and pressure plates.  Specifically, I would figure out how long it takes the dwarf to exit, and set up the minecart/plate accordingly.


Finally, I think I understand the spire mechanics.  It's a bug.  The water is pushed down with the cave-in, falling to the bottom instantly.  Then the layer above the water (which pushed the water down in the first place) collapses through the water, pushing the water back up.  Then, (and here is the bug), the code checks to see if it should create the obsidian, and does so, and after it creates the obsidian, it checks if the tile is blocked, and if so, it pushes the water up again. 


Edit:

I keep thinking I'm done, when I come up with something else.  So, this method involves making the submarine taller than the distance between the SMR and the bottom of the volcano tube, and overlapping the wall of the submarine with the volcano tube.  It creates a spire, but no hollow (so far).  You can build the submarine over the volcano, or you can channel out the edge on the inside of the volcano to make room so that it isn't supported. 

Example save at: http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=8390
(Sorry for the sad state of the fortress proper.)

I'm just picturing the goblins looking from a distance at my giant plumes of magma mist 25 z-levels above sea level and saying "Fucking Dwarves".



Edit 2:
Another example save: http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=8391
Hollow spires, has an obsidian floor and 2/7 water half the time.  Refills with magma the other half of the time.  I have no idea what to think of this one.  It's definitely the closest I've come to the dwarven submarine I promised, but I have no idea how or why it works. 

For the download impaired, The top three layers are:

FFFFFFF WWWWWWW  WWWWWWW
FFFFFFF WWWWWWW  WFFFFFW
FFFFFFF WWFFFWW  WFFFFFW
FFFFFFF WWFFFWW  WFFFFFW
FFFFFFF WWFFFWW  WFFFFFW
FFFFFFF WWWWWWW  WFFFFFW
FFFFFFF WWWWWWW  WWWWWWW
and it creates a 5x5 spire with a 3x3 hollow.

11
DF Dwarf Mode Discussion / Re: Dwarven Submarines,Hollow Cave-Ins,Instant Spires & Paving the Ocean !!SCIENCE!!
« on: February 01, 2014, 01:13:46 am »
Very nice work, Ravendarksky.  It's good to have confirmation that it wasn't just a fluke, and the extra !!SCIENCE!! is wonderful. 

I'm sorry, but I don't have a solution to the SMR issue.  I used dfhack to create the base for the submarine to land on. 

Edit:
I just figured it out!

Using Ravendarksky research and Merendel's idea about anchoring it to the sides, I did some experimenting. 

The first experiments weren't very successful, but the technique does drain the level of magma (lava?) within the volcano.  Once you drain the volcano, you can dump some water along the edges to cast an obsidian floor, as long as it has an edge to anchor against at the point the water meets the lava, it will create a wall.

After playing with this, I tried to drop a 40x40 floor-water sandwich over the top of the volcano.  I thought that it would spill over the sides, but it should drain the volcano all the way down to the SMR, allowing me to cast a floor at the lowest level of the volcano (after it fills back in).  I had some unexpected results.  An obsidian spire all the way down. 

I still need to reproduce it in a more controlled manner, but the answer is: "If the water is next to the wall of the volcano, it will attach."  To do this, you probably need to carve into the edge of the volcano to remove the supports on the z-level below the submarine. 

Also, the sandwich does not need to be directly above the lava - you can have several z-levels of air between the sandwich and the lava.

If I have time, I will experiment some more and post the results. 

12
DF Dwarf Mode Discussion / Re: Dwarven Submarines,Hollow Cave-Ins,Instant Spires & Paving the Ocean !!SCIENCE!!
« on: January 30, 2014, 07:51:10 pm »
Quote from: hiroshi42 on January 30, 2014, 07:21:20 pm
It shouldn't refill as long as it is closed on the bottom, at least it does not when you build normally in a volcano.

This was related to one of my problems, I had to use dfhack to close the bottom, otherwise everything would get swallowed up by the SMR.

13
DF Dwarf Mode Discussion / Re: Dwarven Submarines,Hollow Cave-Ins,Instant Spires & Paving the Ocean !!SCIENCE!!
« on: January 30, 2014, 12:43:37 pm »
No, the inside is obsidian too.  IIRC, the bottom layer was 7x7 and hollow (floor), and the layers above it were 5x5 and filled with obsidian (natural wall). 

14
DF Dwarf Mode Discussion / Re: Do phantom spiders still exist?
« on: January 12, 2014, 05:25:52 pm »
I have gotten phantom spider silk clothing from goblin Christmas recently.

15
DF Dwarf Mode Discussion / Dwarven Submarines, Hollow Cave-Ins & Instant Obsidian Spires !!SCIENCE!!
« on: December 30, 2013, 11:39:15 pm »
The Dwarven Submarine has been a dream of many.  I've discovered an important step in that process.  Unfortunately, I don't have the time to fully explore it, however, I'm hoping that by posting here, someone else can run with the idea.  I did a proof of concept using dfhack, and the idea works.  In my proof of concept, I dropped the submarine into a volcano.  I had to dfhack in a floor (and support for it) because the SMR ate my first attempt. 

The basic premise is:
  • You cast your submersible out of obsidian.
  • Then you carve out the inside with floors, leaving a natural stone outer shell.
  • Now, this is the where the magic happens.  I was diving in magma, and my test submersible was 3 layers (not counting the all floor top), so I filled the three levels with 2/7 water.  2/7 means that your passengers won't drown, but the water does not evaporate.
  • Finally, disconnect the submarine from its support, allowing it to cave in. 

What you get is a single level hollow chamber at the bottom of a huge spire of obsidian.  There is no liquid in the hollow chamber.  The obsidian spire reaches up to your starting point.  As a side effect of this process, you can obsidianize as many levels of magma as you desire with only a small amount of water.  If you are only after the obsidian, you should be able to use constructed walls. 

I would guess this idea can be modified for placing a chamber on the bottom of the ocean.  The bottom layer would be filled with 2/7 water and the levels above it would be filled with magma. It could also probably be used as a very quick way to pave the entire ocean.  I'm not sure if having more than 3 levels would allow you to have a multi-level hollow chamber.  I'm not sure if items underneath are crushed.  Maybe a constructed floor would be better in some situations, because it would deconstruct into blocks.

Some ideas for how to get a passenger to survive the trip:
  • Cave-ins are instant; dropping objects is not.  You may need to drop your passengers and supplies first, then drop the submarine over them.
  • If your passenger is travelling in a minecart, they would not take damage from the fall or from the magma while they are in the cart, and they can leave the minecart without further effort.  I'm not sure if they would leave the minecart early.
  • If your passengers are travelling in a cage, they would not take damage from the fall or the magma while they are in the cage.  How can they exit the cage after the trip?  Would melting (non magma-safe metal) or burning (wood) work?  Maybe one passenger could be engineered to be released first and survive just long enough to release the other passengers?
  • Finally, if necessary, you can remove the fat from your passengers, so that they survive in magma for a slightly longer period of time.

Any thoughts, comments or ideas are welcome, especially since most of this (past the initial proof of concept) is just conjecture.

Edit: IIRC, the bottom level must be a cast obsidian wall in order to "push" the magma out of the way during the cave-in.  When something caves in, any liquids directly below the cave in are instantly displaced directly above the cave-in.  I'm not sure of the exact mechanics behind the obsidian spire though.  It was unexpected.

Edit: Removed "Paving the Ocean from title".  Further research by Ravendarksky shows it doesn't work with magma over water.

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