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Messages - DWC

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1
General Discussion / Re: Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« on: August 02, 2013, 10:01:41 pm »
Every country is 'pretty shit' if you dig around in their history enough, the USA included.

So what? I know being a 'victim' is super special nowadays and a well sought after status (note all the absurd tort culture in the USA), but I don't see how it's productive to bring up grievances from over 100 years ago into modern political rhetoric.

Yeah, the USA is pretty shit for having slavery, while talking a lot of rhetoric about 'freedom' and 'individual liberties' and 'self-ownership' but this was a normal thing, for the era. History is history, let's move on to tomarrow, ffs.

2
General Discussion / Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« on: July 21, 2013, 09:15:10 pm »
I think it's more that the US has a ridiculously bloated military

I don't think the US would have such a bloated budget if it was not for the fact that it has maintained it's obligations and has overextended it'self promising protection with allies everywhere in the world. They are acting as 'world police' and the USA's allies have taken advantage of it by cutting their military budgets because "War is impossible, the USA would intervene, we don't need this army stuff, we have more important things to consider" so the USA's military budget is so huge because it is effectively subsidizing the defense of all of it's allies.

The USA isn't oblivious to this fact, it's only recently started complaining now that public opinion there has shifted toward isolationism after their whatever, 12 years of non-stop war. American politics are fickle anyways, it's amazing Americans tolerate such a paradigm when the average American doesn't give half a rat's turd about any other country's well-being unless it's about Israel.

3
General Discussion / Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« on: July 21, 2013, 08:57:50 pm »
European militaries are tiny, underfunded, undermanned and useless. Even in the height of the cold war, this was the case. They had ammunition reserves enough for 15 days of combat, on average.

It's only gotten worse since then. It's basically just a welfare program for show, it doesn't even meet NATO's obligations. The USA covers all of Europe's military weakness so they can focus their money on the burdens of pensions and welfare cheques and going into vast debt.

I have no idea why European countries are in Afghanistan, they've neglected basically every requirement of the alliance. I suppose it's worth the tax-payer funds to send out some soldiers to Afghanistan so they can be accused of 'warcrimes' and 'imperialism' and whatnot so they can stay programmed and give some diplomatic weight with the USA.

4
General Discussion / Re: Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« on: July 21, 2013, 07:39:42 pm »
Our relationship with China is symbiotic. I think it is ultimately a good thing, as economic MAD is preferable to nuclear MAD. We just need to curb our side of the abuses and convince/force/bribe China to do the same with its.

I actually want China to grow economically. Democracy movements have historically flowered upon the enrichment of a population.

The point I am trying to make is that this isn't like with the USSR. Nor can it be. The state of the world is far too interconnected for that situation to exist again.

I think I agree with your assessment, but I think globalism isn't something that will survive forever. It's a product of inexpensive oil, great disparities between labor costs/ exchange rates and free market economies, or at least free market economies exploiting disparities with more centralized nations with artificially depressed economies. None of those things are guarantees in the future.

The world is evolving, the USA is stalling in terms of economic and diplomatic importance while other nations are growing to parity. Especially China. Oil is basically at it's peak in terms as a natural resource and the whole of industrialized civilization is wholly dependent on it, it will only get more scarce and expensive from here on out as a whole. Wide spread information from the internet, social media has changed how politics work in the world. The status quo is less secure then it's ever been.

5
The whole two party system is essentially irrelevant now. You have two groups who each want to chip away at different parts of your rights, then pretend they're polar opposites. And the majority of the public has been conditioned by the media to believe that voting for anyone except a Democrat or Republican is "throwing away their vote".

Man if that isn't the truth.

Notice that restrictive laws never seem to get repealed. It's just both sides of the spectrum denying freedoms 'left and right' after whatever pop culture thing that is in the bydlo fucking awareness at the time.

Both parties are your enemy. Either vote 3rd party or don't vote at all. Voting for the 'lesser of two evils' is just voting in somebody fucking evil who will fuck you apart and YOU are partially responsible.

The USA has enough problems already, don't contribute to them by voting in another facsimile of the assholes that have created this situation.

6
General Discussion / Re: George Zimmerman verdict and THINGS
« on: July 20, 2013, 12:05:17 am »
Yeah I actually agree with you, police should poke around in cases of self-defense. There does seem like there could be some room for abuse in self-defense laws where criminal acts could be disguised as legitimate self-defense. They do this already to an extent. The police did not show up to the scene and say "Oh, ok, good job, you are free to go". They detained him, took his clothes, took photos, prints, his gun and other evidence on the scene. Held him for 5 hours. The next day Zimmerman volunteered, without counsel to re-enact the events to the police at the scene for their investigation.
Apparently the police even wanted to press charges, from what I hear, and investigate quite a bit further than they did. But they couldn't, because of stand your ground. The media was the only reason charges were pressed at all.

I think that was just a bad idea. Again, if he'd had his days in court, this would have been a pretty open and shut case most likely. He probably would have got off (again, despite the fact that I think executed some bad judgement). And this wouldn't have become a huge issue.

Instead, we get this. It's just frustrating.

AFAIK, Zimmerman never claimed 'Stand your ground' because he was pinned under Mr. Martin while being attacked and unable to retreat, even if the law required him to, making it a regular self-defense case, like you'd see anywhere in the world where people have the rights to their own life.

Zimmerman might have made some dumb decisions, but... he did nothing illegal. Law in the USA is built on precedence of court cases... Zimmerman didn't do anything illegal... but if he was considered guilty, despite everything. It would blow up the entire legal concept of self-defense.

So, a guy that got yelled at by some frail old grandmother for going on her lawn, would have reason to attack her, as proper
provocation' and then forth the old lady would be absolved of her right to defend herself against lethal force, because she instigated and provoked the guy on her lawn. The guy on the lawn could brain her with a rock, because he was provoked and discriminated against. The old lady would be legally required to take whatever she deserved for her hateful actions.

The USA has universal application of the law. Meaning, the same standard for everyone. It's a democracy, but it doesn't mean mob rule. Just because everyone wants to see Zimmerman die for what he did, doesn't mean he deserves it, nor will he.

The law doesn't make 'special exceptions' it doesn't follow 'common sense' or 'popular opinion'.

7
General Discussion / Re: George Zimmerman verdict and THINGS
« on: July 19, 2013, 09:00:30 pm »
The police did handle this somewhat oddly, but isn't it likely that Zimmerman had a relationship with the police department prior? He was the person behind defending the homeless man who was beaten, and from what I read it caused quite some controversy within the local department. He's also neighborhood watch, meaning he's likely collaborated with the police before.

Not saying that excuses it at all, it's just likely that the police knew him beforehand, and decided not to instantly imprison him due to past events.

Uh, if anything the police would not like Zimmerman because he apparently got into a fist-fight with an off-duty police officer. He was sticking up for some friend of his and the cop didn't announce himself as such, so he got let off on charges of 'assaulting a police officer' so charged but never brought to court.

He might have had some credibility with neighbors he helped, but police don't care. Sanford is part of Orlando, it's a big city. It's not some small-town dump where everyone knows each other since elementary. Nobody knows anybody there. The police only know him by his record.

8
General Discussion / Re: Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« on: July 19, 2013, 08:55:24 pm »
Edit: Speaking of which, Communist is a ridiculously flawed system, inheriant in it's basic philosophy that an individual has absolutely no self-ownership.

No, this is wrong. The communist idea is that of absolute self-ownership, that we are all brothers and no man can own another. Hence why the communist "golden state" is governmentless. Since this is obviously not what happened in the attempted Communist states, this is part of why people are saying they were not "real" communist states.

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The amount of effort put into a communist system has zero correlation to what one received from that system. A 'from each to their ability and to each their needs' creates a system where the least productive and most needy benefit the most and the most productive and resilient people lose. So instead of offering incentive for effort, it punishes it and instead of punishing irresponsibility, it rewards it.

This is a common thought, but it is wrong. Firstly, it assumes one who is productive in one area, say intellectually, can't be unproductive in another - being paraplegic, for example. Hence a great inventor and engineer may still use his skills for the good of society and society takes care of his needs through nurses and other services.

Secondly, it fails to acknowledge that the "least productive and most needy" isn't so because they are lazy, but because they are disabled in either a mental or physical way - or both. That, however, does not mean they are worthless, and it is our moral duty to make sure they do not starve and die or languish in extreme poverty.

Thirdly, it does not recognise that even for the small amount of "lazy coasters", the amount of money they actually get from just drifting along will always be a lot less than if they put in an effort. So no, "the productive" (which, I repeat, are not a group without needs and thus not separate from the "needy") do not lose. They always keep more than they give.

It also doesn't mention how many of the rich and successful supposedly "productive" people are also the biggest leeches on society. Those are the people who wants to enjoy all the benefits of a socialist society - from things such as social services, infrastructure and communications or schools, to safety and health - but doesn't want to pay for it. In my mind - it's the same problem as the "lazy" people, except it's worse since these people have the resources to share to begin with. And that's not even going into the problem of big businesses and fompanies gladly accept millions and millions in grants, which they then call "profit" and store overseas instead of reinvesting into society.


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So, it's no wonder why every 'communist' or 'socialist' society have been miserable, oppressive hell holes.

Once again. Look at western Europe, all successful social democracies. Look at Scandinavia, all successful socialist countries.

Scandinavia has a thriving free-market economy. They just have a lot of taxes and public welfare. That isn't what socialism is. It's anti-thetical to communism. It rejects most all of communist philosophy. It embraces the free-market and uses the prosperity inherit in it to provide common benefits. Sweden does not describe it'self as 'socialist'. It's a 'welfare state' if you want to apply a label to their system.

Also, communist ideology is a direct negation of the concept of 'self-ownership'. With full self-ownership, society would resemble some anarcho-capitalist Ayn Rand Land. Communism is a society that everyone owes a debt to everyone else. All labor, wealth, material, thought, innovation, is the property of everyone else. You can't 'own' anything, let alone yourself. There isn't anything to 'own' in communism, everything belongs to everyone.

Also, productivity means how much they contribute to society. This can be digging holes all day long, pushing a mop, designing software, defending others from violence, anything you can imagine that contributes to society. In Communism, your contribution to society has no reflection on the rewards gained from society. You can be self-less, hard-working, produce far beyond your share and if you don't need much, healthy, single, used to austere conditions the society would give you what you 'need' which isn't much. While somebody who is lazy, selfish, contributes little or nothing and has immense demands and needs, would contribute little, and gain so much.

So, the human always looking to better themselves, will figure it's a better deal to never go to work, have limitless expenses and that system would accommodate them. It encourages exactly the wrong kind of person to make the system work in theory. That's why the USSR harped on this concept of 'The New Man' or 'The Soviet Man' that contributed more to the system then they took from it. Naturally, nobody is going to do that. They want to contribute less and get more.

9
General Discussion / Re: George Zimmerman verdict and THINGS
« on: July 19, 2013, 08:34:53 pm »
Like what? Justifiable homicide is as old as laws. Zimmerman's case didn't even involve any of the new edgy laws like Stand your Ground. It was regular old self-defense that's legal basically everywhere in the world.

Just as a note, and this is the only problem I personally had with the whole thing other than it being stupid that it's national news - the police didn't charge him, because of the Stand Your Ground laws. They didn't hold him, they didn't charge him, and they had no intention of actually doing so. The problem isn't Stand Your Ground laws - it is Florida's law in particular, which definitely played a major role here.

Florida's Stand Your Ground law isn't the reason he got off - he got off because there was reasonable doubt, and good reason for it. But they are the reason this turned into the national wankfest that it is.

You know those two stories in the OP? I think they serve as good reference points. Despite being on his own property, the one guy was arrested and charged. Despite following someone else in public, Zimmerman was not. The first guy got off, rightly, shortly thereafter. Zimmerman's trial took it's sweet-ass fucking time and only seemed to progress when national rage pushed it forward. At least from what I got talking to people early on, this was what was really infuriating - that instead of letting the law handle it, it felt like Florida was just trying to sweep it under the rug (and from what I understand the provisions of Stand Your Ground saying that the police aren't allowed to hold or charge someone who might have been acting in self defense are a big part of that).

Instead, they waited 45 days to charge him. He wasn't taken into custody. They did not do any drug tests. They did not investigate, and seemed to have no intent on ever actually doing so. Can you blame people for suspecting racism and being furious? Roderick was immediately brought into custody! They investigated! Here, the police refused to do so, and in circumstances that were, let us be honest, a bit more questionable and a lot less clear cut (Roderick case: Crime in progress, own property, multiple witnesses, criminal gets shot, come on, it doesn't even really compare on that front).

This set the theme for the entire shitfest that followed. If the law had responded the way it did in the Roderick case, no one would have given a flying fuck.

I think Travyon's death is tragic. I think the whole situation is sad. I think the only bad guys here are the ones who passed fucked up legislation in Florida that seems to primarily serve the purpose of making everyone look at them and causing people to rage while scoring ideological points among assholes.

My final verdict: Fuck Florida

Here, let me find the reference to what set this whole thing off...
"Police Chief Bill Lee cited the state’s “Stand Your Ground” law and stated publicly there was no probable cause to arrest Zimmerman based on the statute. This sparked outrage and cries for justice across the nation."
http://miami.cbslocal.com/2012/03/28/sanford-police-originally-wanted-to-charge-zimmerman/

Yeah I actually agree with you, police should poke around in cases of self-defense. There does seem like there could be some room for abuse in self-defense laws where criminal acts could be disguised as legitimate self-defense. They do this already to an extent. The police did not show up to the scene and say "Oh, ok, good job, you are free to go". They detained him, took his clothes, took photos, prints, his gun and other evidence on the scene. Held him for 5 hours. The next day Zimmerman volunteered, without counsel to re-enact the events to the police at the scene for their investigation.

Apparently nothing seemed weird about his story and no laws were broken, so they let him go.

The evidence correlated with his story, so they let him go. So, maybe Zimmerman shoved Martin or talked shit or something?  I don't see how it really matters. Zimmerman was unlawfully attacked and was forced to shoot in self-defense. Plenty of unwise decisions led up to that, but nothing he did was particularly negligent or over-the-top either. Retrospection is always clearer then in the moment.

The media is blowing this up into something it isn't. The president and everyone else is using this to harp on his anti-gun and anti-self defense agenda, with the typical emotionally-fueled tripe aimed at the lowest common denominator. Politics and media representation have polluted this case and elevated it to some pop-culture travesty and it really doesn't deserve it. The misrepresentation of what this case is, really gets to me.

10
Why do you think Snowden genuinely pulled this off himself? I ask this from the standpoint of someone who thinks this was an intentional leak probably agreed by several governments, though i couldn't tell you any more then the inconsistencies that make me think this.

If some foreign countries convinced him to do this, Snowden surely got screwed pretty badly, since nobody offered him a safehaven to retreat to or any money for doing so.

I did say "managed resistance", e.g, i imagine the US had a hand in it. It would be worth rereading my consecutive post after the one you've quoted, nope, please reread it, and I'm not trying to be a dick.

I'm not familiar with this term "managed resistance". So you mean some faction or officials in the government that maybe had a beef with this program got Snowden to leak it? Or the US government leaked it intentionally because they want to air out other nation's surveillance programs and feel like the program should be accountable or cancelled anyways? Like, I guess France has a similar system? Or some foreign agency convinced Snowden to go public with this and take all the blame and responsibility for it?

That seems less likely then Snowden just doing it himself. He got hired to work for this program, didn't like it, so he made it public because he thought it was the right thing to do and possibly to capitalize on his celebrity status garnered from it. It seems like he could have leaked it anonymously, or arranged a deal with some foreign government before hand or gave him a little bit of time to flee before the gov't zeroed in on him.

What's your whole theory you are hinting at then?

11
General Discussion / Re: George Zimmerman verdict and THINGS
« on: July 19, 2013, 10:55:44 am »
That said, look at the Dorner case. Why didn't that receive nationwide attention? Anyone? No? Guy inside a house being burned to death by a fire intentionally started by police? Guess not.

Seriously. The media went crazy over this Dorner caper until it became obvious the police intentionally set fire to where he was hiding. That shit pisses me off.

So the guy in traffic you are behind can stop and brain you with a tire iron for being a creepy ass cracker following him everywhere?

No, because THAT IS A DIFFERENT SITUATION.

If someone stalks you on a dark street at night then you have the right to defend youself with lethal force.  Trayvon Martin wasn't going to get anyone killed.

Race doesn't even enter into something.  If you provoke a fight with someone and then kill them you are a murderer.  If someone else provokes a fight with you and then you kill them, you are not (although you may or may not be over reacting.)  Zimmerman is a murderer by his own account and it's a shocking oversight in our laws that what he did was legal.

No it isn't different. Approaching somebody isn't provocation and you can't just kill anybody that follows you around in public. It was 7pm and  Martin was 100 feet away from where he lived. If he felt threatened he could have just ran. Instead he decided to jump Zimmerman.

Or who knows? Maybe Zimmerman got out of his car and got confrontational, talking shit. It doesn't justify physical violence on Martin's part. You think Zimmerman would have really called the police on himself if he set out to beat up Martin or kill him?

They both overreacted to the situation, but Martin was the only one that broke the law here by escalating the situation, by attacking Zimmerman in such a way as that Zimmerman could'nt withdraw. If Martin had just gotten into a stand-up fist-fight and Zimmerman shot him when he could have ran, it would be a different story. Instead he pinned Zimmerman to the ground and continued beating on him, a life-or-death situation, so Zimmerman had no choice but to either defend himself or risk his life and hope Martin didn't kill or seriously injure him.

Zimmerman should have just stayed in his damn car, the police were literally two minutes away.

12
General Discussion / Re: SCIENCE, the Higgs, and everything else!
« on: July 19, 2013, 01:34:18 am »
Even the "light has no mass" people say it has momentum. It is documented and accepted as scientific fact.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_sail

Bro, electromagnetic radiation includes light, but isn't all like light. Light is special, it's like a particle and a wave at the same time. The only thing a laser uses is light, it doesn't spew out gammas or radio wave or infrared or anything else besides light. The sun spews out everything in the electromagnetic spectrum, including light because it's basically a roiling cloud of hydrogen bombs going off. A solar sail would work because of everything it is sending out (besides light) is causing radiation pressure on the object. Not to mention like, regular thermal energy produced by the sun.

Also, outer space is not a perfect vacuum. The space inside a laser could be a perfect vacuum, with perfect lens and perfect mirrors could produce a ridiculously powerful laser, really only limited by the amount of energy put into it. How awesome are fucking lasers anyways?

Ugh, sorry, no. All forms of EM radiation are photons. The only special thing about them is that our eyes are sensitive to them. Also, Lasers dont need to be light - in as much as stimulated emission can produce EM radiation at a range of wavelengths. The same principle has been used with microwaves to make Masers, UV Lasers and in theory could be used for X-Ray Lasers. A Laser can not be a perfect vacuum inside - it needs a resonance cavity with gain medium in it (typically gas or solid state) to actually amplify by stimulated emission - perfect vacuum means no material to emit. The need for a material limits thier power output as energy has to be "pumped" into the gain medium to get population inversion (more stimulated electrons than ground state), which is not an efficient process, typically a few %. Two Perfect mirrors would also be pointless - you need the Laserlight to escape at one end after all.

A soar sail will be pushed along by whatever photons hit it - visible, uv, anything. Most of the high energy stuff passes striaght through one, and the low energy stuff has so little momentum (de Broglie's equation...) it makes little difference unless there happens to be many radio-photons. As for the Sun, treating it like a black body and applying Wien's Law it can be shown that the vast majority of photons from the Sun are at a wavelength of 480 nm - nice and orange. So many infact thatmost other wavelengths become irrelevant.

Physics lecture over. Imma gonna go to work and teach this shit now.

tl;dr

But seriously, why would the momentum of something matter if it doesn't have any mass?

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Two Perfect mirrors would also be pointless - you need the Laserlight to escape at one end after all.

Yeah that's true. Damn. Still, if what you said before is true, then it would be some kind of immovable object vs unstoppable force type problem, where the momentum of the light (apparently) will work through a perfect mirror (somehow), right? So, i'd be like a laser-pipebomb, right?

Kidding asides, now I'm genuinely curious since I've found I'm ignorant on something I thought I understood. I've heard of masers. Could a 'perfect mirror' act in a 'laser' that works off a higher energy EM wavelength, like Gamma-rays or something? Like reflect a certain portion of it back to another mirror to concentrate it's effects? You mentioned X-ray lasers (xrasers?) is there a physical limitation on the shorter wave-lengths like gamma-rays working asides from them just normally plowing through a regular mirror?

13
General Discussion / Re: George Zimmerman verdict and THINGS
« on: July 18, 2013, 11:27:44 pm »
Explain to me in two sentences or less why should I particularly care about this specific murder.

It was legal for a man to murder a teenager in cold blood.  This has showed that there are problems with our criminal codes that we need to fix.

Like what? Justifiable homicide is as old as laws. Zimmerman's case didn't even involve any of the new edgy laws like Stand your Ground. It was regular old self-defense that's legal basically everywhere in the world.

What needs improvement? Should Zimmerman have waited until his brains were leaking out of his ears to defend himself? Should it be illegal to follow somebody? So the guy in traffic you are behind can stop and brain you with a tire iron for being a creepy ass cracker following him everywhere?

Or maybe universal application of law should be revised? If a defendant gets enough popular opinion against them, the law can be exempted and he can be sentenced?

14
'bearer of light'

So Satan is a Bear made of Light, then. Got it.

That works too. You know how sloppy these translations over the centuries have been. All we really know for sure is that Satan is fucking awesome.

15
Yeah, Satan was at one point the most beautiful angeland described as such. Nothing says he was disfigured or anything after he rebelled. Also all angels are not even all humanoid or human looking. They are bizarre things with wheels and lights and multiple faces on a single head, ect, ect.

Lucifer means 'bearer of light'. So, Satan if he looks like anything, is probably a blinding sphere of psychedelic rainbow colors, like really pretty looking, if one could look at it. Like, maybe exactly how the instant of a nuclear bomb going off looks like. Psychedelic colors of everything on the electromagnetic scale blooming at once and radiating outwards along each bandwidth's individual distortion. Beautiful.

No testicles implied. Please, use religious references responsibly guys.

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