Bay 12 Games Forum

Lenglon: I'm not sure if I said this already, I may have ended up scrapping the post where I said this, but here's the thing: all that stuff that happened while I was away?  I read it, but it's hard for me to form opinions on it because I'm not reading it in a present context and a lot of stuff gets questioned and explained without me being able to say anything because, y'know, I'm away.  So nothing I say will be heavily influenced by all the stuff I missed.  Also, another note as to why it's harder for me to form opinions on, it's a lot of information I'm trying to digest at once rather than the bite-sized chunks when I'm following the thread normally (although bite-sized is a bit of a misnomer when I wake up to two whole pages of new posts, I haven't seen that since my second ever game here, smstr w/ love).

With that disclaimer aside, it's time to comment.  Jack A T I don't really have a strong opinion on.  He had a good start to the game but I haven't seen basically anything from him more recently so I don't have much to base an opinion off of other than half-remembered "he did good" vibes from day start.  TolyK, however, has given quite a bit more content since my return, but... so much of it is about this cult leader freak-out that everyone is having
and the game mode freak-out he is having.  Seriously, what self-respecting cult leader says he can add you to a quicktopic as a way to try and excuse his later conversions?  Actually I need more info on TolyK to form a proper idea, gimme a moment.

TolyK: Look, I know the game mode mechanic is kinda weird.  I don't know what it does any more than the average person, and yeah, that is kinda concerning: but no more so than any of the other powers that the scumteam may be hiding (assuming that the scumteam is the one who activated it and not a mafia-ally of some kind or even a town-aligned role using an ability that has a hidden, town-benefiting aspect).  Yes, it's possible that it could have hidden effects, yes, we don't know who did it, but freaking out about it helps nobody, and at this point it almost seems like you're making a scene to fish for reactions to it to see if any townies know more than they should so you can mafiakill them.  So, can you give me a good reason why we should focus on the game mode, which is at least an evil we know and can take into account?

Everyone talking about the cult leader thing: Why?  Just why?  I'm having flashbacks to Leafsnail in Paranormal 25 and that's not a good thing.  I have a lot of respect for Leafsnail overall, especially as mafia, but he tunneled way too hard on the idea that the game was too easy and there must be a hivemind cult lurking among us and if the other town weren't so united it had real potential to derail the actual scum-finding that was going on.  Look, there could be a cult, it's a thing, it's happened in the past, but why is this even being given any credibility D1 over someone saying they could create quicktopics, something that, again, is not that uncommon in BYORs.

Lenglon: Personally I'd remove TDS from that list because, upon reading his recent posts, he doesn't really strike me as scum.  I don't have as much to say about him as flabort because it's more of a gut feeling and I'm writing this haven just woken up and read the posts, but I'll try.  Just looking through his reads he seems to have done his research and have more substance than a lot of players and while I disagree with some of them he seems secure in his beliefs, which I read as townie.

TolyK: I know nothing of the game modes beyond what's been said in the thread, and it'd be weird if I did because my role is not related to games or modes in any way.  Wer mit Ungeheuern kämpft, mag zusehn, dass er nicht dabei zum Ungeheuer wird. Und wenn du lange in einen Abgrund blickst, blickt der Abgrund auch in dich hinein.

TBF: Do you have any cases to push?  Because mostly I've seen you being on the defensive this game.

doll: Actually the reason I'm being aggressive during the times I'm active on D1 today is a) because I do need to get better at D1 anyway and b) I don't feel like spending all of D1 bickering with you, that can wait until later in the game if we happen to be on different teams.  It's pretty NAI.

Even without a full analysis of what all has gone on I have huge problems with flabort's so-called "reads list" that I'd like to talk about for a moment.

Allow me to list my problems in a shorthand form.  Very few scumreads with most of them being on strong players who, if not scum, could be a danger to the scumteam?  Check.  A lot of reads that give little more description than buzzwords like "content" and "activity"?  Check.  Agreeing with a person voting on you, a reasonably common scum strategy to try and buy some capital with said player?  Check.  Seemingly arbitrary town/scum values to some players in the middle range?  Check.

Now, a more specific conversation on that last point: I specifically dislike his reads on me, OSG, and Tea.  Let's start with Tea, who I feel was given a rather arbitrary neutral read.  He justifies this read with "nothing unusual enough to base a read on" but let's look at another player like that, I didn't do anything particularly unusual when I was active, and he gave me a "was town but now leaning neutral/third-party" (I'll get to that in a minute).  In addition, everything he said about Tea would indicate a small town read, from "gut feeling to trust her" to "active, lots of content" and yet he hesitates to give her the town read that his description of her actions would warrant without giving any points against her.  This feels very much like a scum trying not to place his scumbuddy too high on his reads list and if flabort is scum I'd say there's better than average odds that Tea is too.

Now, OSG's.  The player who has barely posted this game even by my standards.  The guy who is asking to be replaced.  And yet for some reason flabort decides "oh yeah, OSG is pulling some kind of active-lurking gambit" and then places as neutral despite this accusation.  I have very, very rarely seen anyone lie about their rationale for not being in a game when they explain real life circumstances: in fact, I've never seen it.  The most recent time I saw a scum actively try to avoid attention by disappearing off the face of the planet was TBF in Paranormal 25 and he never gave an explanation for that behavior.  Deciding that this is an activelurking gambit of some kind is just silly and casts needless shade on what is currently an empty slot, and provides nothing to the game itself.

Now, mine.  I have no problem with people calling me out on my inactivity, especially when it's well-deserved (sorry again...).  What I do have a problem with is arbitrary changes to people's reads based on inactivity that don't take into account what benefit the inactivity might have to that player as various roles.  In my case, there was literally no benefit in going inactive: I had a decent position built up and as town, scum, or third-party I would want to further that strength in order to further my goals in the rest of the game.  Going AFK provided no tangible benefit because there was no suspicion to avoid, no unfortunate events to allow to fade from memory, and no reason why I should hold back on my thoughts in a game where I could theoretically die at any moment.  Thus, like with most long periods of inactivity, it is NIA: make up your mind on what I am based on what I say and don't say, rather than a work-induced period of absence.

Also, flabort, do you actually have an explanation for why you called me "leaning third party" or is that just filler too like so much else of your reads?

I will spear your quote pyramids because they are unhealthy for browsers.

Ah ya bastard I was going to ask why they weren't doing anything to get the reads

Too slow.  Find your own things to push on.

Who says I haven't, and wont it counterwork the attempt if I explain what I do to get them?

I certainly didn't, I accepted both possibilities, and perhaps.  It all depends on the method through which you get them.

Leaning town on you for now, not gonna bother pushing any further on the matter.

The theme falls within my ongoing spree of stunt openings, in which I try to get something of actual value by behaving abnormally.  This one sort of fizzled.

Yeah and I'm glad for it, hopefully people will stop doing that shit soon. [/tiltedgrumping]

Quote from: 4maskwolf on May 31, 2017, 04:50:37 pm

Pozzazi: How do games usually go down in the meta you're used to?  What are the most important parts of the game and what is most important to keep an eye out for?  I'm not familiar with the general meta for any of the sites you've played on, only Mafia Universe and Bay12.

 More individual thoughts than direct questions to the game as a whole. More focus on reads and less on claims.

 Like up to this point I have very few indicators of where anyone stands, because it's just a circular discussion about claims, that we can't even process today at all, this presuming people who are town are even telling the truth in the first place.

 I feel like the majority of what has been said, including everything I've said, is NAI. No one is drilling into people's opinions, because there's next to none, no pressure is added, and this feel like at some point during the day someone will throw out a name, everyone will go "well, I don't have anything better so lets go" and a random person will be lynched by that.

What you're describing is pretty standard for early game: people will form opinions and will make accusations, and some of them are already starting to do so now based on people's play so far, but the game is still young and those opinions have little to back them up.  The claims are merely a way to facilitate discussion and fish for reactions that can be used to form actual reads.

h...hector-senpai.  Why did you not notice me?

I have a question about the way you're prodding Persus, hector.  If Persus hadn't said that and instead it had been me saying "There's hammers in this game so don't be a fucking idiot with your vote" would you have interpreted it as wooden?  Is it the content or the way it was said?

If it is, then you're actually pretty awesome.

Speaking of ways to seem like you're participating while not accomplishing anything...