Bay 12 Games Forum

Quote from: Putnam on July 09, 2014, 11:11:32 am

Quote from: Evaris on July 09, 2014, 11:07:00 am

Quote from: Henman on July 09, 2014, 10:35:07 am

If you guys are still looking for someone who enjoys DF with no mods, I'm right here.

DF 2014 is a modded DF 2012

What.

I am pretty sure you fully understand what Evaris is saying.  DF 2014 is Df 2012 with Toady modifying the code to add and change stuff to be more fun.
Mods made by players from the last version are also DF 2012 with those players modifying the code to add and change stuff to be more fun.

If you enjoy version releases, it doesn't make much sense to say you don't enjoy mods on principle. Perhaps you don't enjoy those specific mods, but it stands to logic that the main reason for that is the extent to which modders' hands are tied. So... untie them. Although I'm suggesting a more moderate route for doing so than open source.

Part of the reason I don't want to get into Masterwork is that I feel there is no clear vision for what it will become and that I feel it complicates and bloats an already complicated game. So as far as logic dictating that the main reason for that being the extent to which the modders hands are tied being the main reason for not enjoying mods seems silly to me. There are things they have done that still make me actually want to try despite not liking tons of what has been added and tons of what has been removed/changed.

I don't want mods wholesale incorporated into the game. I would like to see some specific bits of mods incorporated into the game but most of these are basically simple additions to fix limitations that don't make sense. ie the lack of adventure mode crafting options or the ability to make an anvil without one.

I also don't know that something like an API for modding makes any sense at this point. While ideally nothing would need to be reworked as Toady adds and/or changes things I can only assume the API would need to be updated eventually. So instead of getting what you want now and having to deal with it breaking or changing every update or every other update or every major update it seems to me like Toady has decided that the game isn't at a point where making an API is worth the effort or headaches it will cause in the long run. Either that or he is against the idea of an API in general in which case this topic becomes totally pointless.

As to community specific input on raws, he has done something like that in the past but I think Toady is already curving his impulses towards super realism and while the community does great things with modding I think most of us are no where near concerned with the details as we are the outcome. But this can sometimes be directly contrary to what Toady wants the game to be.

I think at this point we really need to see how your depot connects to the outside world.

The hallway up to the left has a massive bunch of traps.

My understanding of room value is somewhat shaky but my thought is that dwarf preferences have no effect on room value. What I think it does effect is how likely or how strong the happy thought the dwarf gets from having such a room.

There's absolutely no reason, for example, why you need to wait two years for the "new trees". Imho, this choice of keep development "secret" without releasing it to the public only slow things down immensely, and doesn't ultimately lead to a better game.

I feel like this is partly directed at me, so ... I agree that the trees on their own do not require a two year period but I have already stated that I think longer development cycles are better. Partly to stop the community from totally fracturing, partly because adding the trees on their own is an almost trivial update. I just think there are plenty of reasons to use longer development cycles with larger version differences.
Someone has already pointed out that you come across as not valuing the idea of a living world and I don't think I have really seen you acknowledge or respond to it. From a fortress mode player and in this update in particular it doesn't seem like a big deal but it does seem like it is something that would a) require a lot of work and b) have far less visible effect on the game. I think it is better to wait the 2 years and get what we got then it is to potentially wait the length of time it took to make the world progress post-gen and not really see much change.

AND that he develops the game the way he wants, but without delaying features for years, and more like in 2006 when you saw features go in as they were coded (and they actually worked far more reliably than they do now, believe me).

This seems like incredibly limited thinking. In my experience fixing a bug or making sure something works is much easier when the code interacts with less and is smaller. So seeing the progress DF has made since 2006 it is kind of remarkable that it is as bug-free and playable as it is.
The UI could use some tweaks, and yes it would be nice if the game were bug free but if Toady spends the next three to six months trying to bugfix and gets nowhere with some of them exactly how long should he spend trying to find it before moving on. I can imagine it now:
"JULY 2014:In a surprise move Toady has decide to fix all the current bugs in DF and will not progress until they are all    gone."
"20xx: Today Indy develop Tarn Adams passed away without completing his life's work DF, It has been stuck on v0.40.xx since mid 2014 when he decided to try and fix all the bugs."
Sometimes moving on will shake something loose or provide new information that helps pinpoint the problem. Fresher eyes and whatnot. Toady knows about some bugs and I don't see much reason not to implement fixes for the ones that have them but he does have a right to decide when to move on. More importantly only he really knows whether he figures he is going to have any luck finding the cause or not.

Final note: if you respond with but he could make it open source, etc... I feel compelled to tell you it's his work and he is under no obligation to even give us bug fixes let alone a new release and you really are acting like he owes you something.

This looks like a job for slayrace! Oh wait, DFhack hasn't updated yet. Oh well, guess we'll have to euthanize them the old fashioned way. The good news is we can get away with it as long as we leave no witnesses.

I don't know I up and tried to force an armorer to give me the clothes of his back and then proceeded to kill him in full view of a trade depot full of civilian dwarfs. All they did was comment on how terrifying it was and after that I retired said adventurer in the same building. I didn't try reloading him though.

Everything I have heard/read about this indicates that any aquatic creatures will go extinct from fishing, and possibly just killing in general. I have avoided fishing because of this but while I think this is still true if you can catch fish everything I have heard/read indicates that it is a good food source.