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Messages - GoblinCookie

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2041
DF Suggestions / Re: Procedural Gender Systems
« on: December 09, 2014, 12:35:15 pm »
Since personality traits are defined at the caste level, you could contrive a species that has different castes that prefer different types of roles.  A simple form would be to have a CISMALE (biologically MALE with masculine personality), CISFEMALE (biologically FEMALE with feminine personality), TRANSMALE (biologically FEMALE with masculine personality) and TRANSFEMALE (biologically MALE with feminine personality), and possibly FLUIDMALE and FLUIDFEMALE who have middling personalities.

The problem is that the vanilla game has no personality differences between genders, so adding all of this to vanilla Dwarves won't change anything.

What? You can add personality differences at caste level.  You could mod the vanilla dwarves to have different personality, indeed even completely different bodies, symbols, colours and pretty much everything else.

2042
DF Suggestions / Re: Procedural Gender Systems
« on: December 09, 2014, 12:18:00 pm »
If you try to treat it as a mental illness, it will cause people to kill themselves.

Don't be part of that.

It is funny how you use a link about bullying in attempt to bully those you disagree with. 

Agree with me or else people will die.  Lovely little blackmail you have going there.

2043
DF Suggestions / Re: Procedural Gender Systems
« on: December 09, 2014, 12:15:29 pm »
I'm not sure sex-dysphoric is really a proper term, or what transgendered individuals would like to be referred to. It implies something is wrong with the mind, which, as I said, not just I, but the trans community would disagree with. It would be the same thing as saying gay people are mentally ill, even though, in both cases, treating it as a mental illness has very very bad effects. Which is why perhaps I seem so hostile when that was suggested.

Yes there definitely is a difference between gender roles and gender identity. And I think, even without gender roles, such as in dwarf society, there would be gender identity. That was my point. Where one line ends and the other begins... it's hard to say, tbh.

And yes, I apologize for hijacking the thread.

I disagree.  At the moment dwarf fortress society (of any race) has effectively no gender roles (elves do a little bit), even the names are not gendered and it is actually fairly hard to tell at a glance what gender a character is unless you go into a detailed look at them in a more general sense. 

For a dwarf at the moment to be transexual is therefore rather like a dwarf with a long nose claiming that really he actually has a short nose, because gender does not have any meaning or significance beyond the physical biology.  In the event that a dwarf was ambiguious biologically the matter would be subject to 'interpretation' but that would not have any real bearing on the life of the dwarf any more than not being able to decide whether a dwarf's nose is really long or short (it is a matter of subjective measurement).

To have transexuals you must have a sense of dualism by which there is the physical appearance of the sexes and then the socially defined nature/roles of the genders.  It must be the case that male and masculine, female and feminine are seen as distinct concepts from eachother before a person who is born biologically of one sex can rationally view themselves as the opposite gender.

This means that until restrictive sex roles are added into the game having transexual dwarves is nonsense.  But why do we need those roles, given they add nothing to the game and only serve to make the game-world more like your standard fantasy setting.  The near-abscence of gender is something unique to the game that makes the game and it's societies more interesting to think about.

2044
Mushrooms are edible, but not brewable. Underground plants are presumably similar.

We have no reason to think that underground plants are being brewed for actual alchohol.  They may well simply be extracting narcotic substances from the mushrooms that have a generally similar effect to alchohol. 

2045
DF Suggestions / Re: Adventurer drinking stagnant water when dehydrated
« on: November 27, 2014, 11:57:35 am »
From my experience, an adventurer will never drink stagnant water regardless of how much they need it.

It might be a bug but that should definitely be changed. Just like when your character is starving, they will ignore the ethics for a while and butcher any dead creatures regardless of how much he liked them or their intelligence.

They will do that already.  They just have to be very thirsty and it does not refill their entire thirst needs. 

2046
DF Suggestions / Re: Communism
« on: November 27, 2014, 11:56:41 am »
Real feudalism didn't quite work like that, any more than other government types. In any geographical location, you normally get exactly one lord (baron or higher) or knight (appointed by a baron) as the local ruler, rather than a heirarchy of rulers and governments in the same location. The purpose of having vassals was to get them to manage the lands that you couldn't personally oversee. So you'd expect 1 noble or knight controlling a location, and a separate mayor if there's a town nearby. This is what we already see in DF, so it's already pretty realistic. We just need tribute caravans and liege lords in different fortresses now.

In feudalism the local lord did not control the economy.  Society was stratified between different levels of economic governance, between the peasant household and the royal household, each managing it's own economic affairs and production.  Higher levels had more rights and greater access to wealth than lower one's.

In Dwarf Fortress we have a single level of economic governance where everyone is (mostly) equal in their rights with only the actual officials possibly enjoying a few extra perks like a nicer room.  This does not extend to their friends and family which do not constitute a privilaged group at all.

We have a classless society in dwarf fortress where there is very little private property and the government actually owns all capital.  Everyone in the site is equal, everyone makes use of the common capital and consumes the common stockpiles; sounds like Communism in the ideal sense.  We even have arbitrary production targets and punishments being doled out to random people for not meeting them, sounds a bit like Stalin, meaning we also kinda have Communism in the not so idea sense. 

War happens all the time though. A feudal king gets his troops from those sent to him by fortresses. If he sent troops back to deal with goblin seiges, then he'd just be shuffling the same troops back and forth to literally every fortress, no fortress would get a net benefit from that. Since every fortress is dealing with the same thing every year, seiges would be in the realm of "you guys just deal with that locally and make sure you keep paying your tithes and sending me troops".

The first step to improving that model would be for a "grand army" mechanic, where no matter what government system there is, there are top generals (who could also be a king or duke or whatever in feudalism), the settlements of the nation provide men and resources for building the grand army, and these mega-armies can face off in battle. But they wouldn't necessarily be having this battle in or near a player fortress.


That already exists in World-Gen.  It does however cease to exist the moment that the world is created, once the world is created and things are modelled directly rather than being simulated we get a situation where all armies are actually coming from a particular settlement and going to another and only the underlying diplomacy is at civilization level.   

Thing is though that having an actually functioning central government above settlement level does not equal feudalism unless that central government actually is a seperate entity and is actually living off the resources provided by the lower entities.  At present the central government members are simply members of the capital city government and it provides all their needs just as with it's own local government and everyone else. 

If all we do provide is armies and supplies for military reasons we are still Communist rather than Feudal because there is a lack of a ruling class sustained by our supplies.  Actually the model starts to rather resemble the way the Swiss Republic used to work.

2047
I expect it would still try to assign it to the missing dwarf, unless you designated it as a tomb for the dwarf you actually want to bury.

I do know that deconstructing memorials can/will result in a Murderous Ghost, although I'm not sure if that applies to empty coffins when a slab is already placed. I wouldn't test that one without backing up my save first.

Yes because it goes for the earliest unburied citizen corpse that is not already buried.  It would rather seem then we essentially need both a coffin AND a memorial for those whose bodies are lost while only a coffin for everyone else.

I do not see why things had to work this way.  Why do we not just assign corpses to coffins?

2048
DF Gameplay Questions / Re: Elves accepting soap?
« on: November 20, 2014, 03:48:46 pm »
Just noticed this in my 40.16 world imported to 40.17.

The elves came to my fort this spring (and yet again didn't think to bring a grizzly to complete a mating pair), and once the main trading was done I thoughtlessly marked and offered the loose soap bars in my fort in order to clear room and hopefully entice them to bring more animals next year (and maybe wash out the pine resin smell they carry). They took it without any complaint or incident.

Upon further reflection, they should have gotten mad and left on account of the wood-derived lye. Anyone else noticing this, or is it just me? Not the most serious of bugs, but I couldn't help but notice how odd it was that elves would take soap as a gift.

At present they only object to being sold wood items directly.

2049
As far as I know, coffins are always assigned in death order and there's no way to avoid empty coffins for inaccessible bodies. But given that it's easy enough to build extra coffins, I've never really considered it a problem.

You do still have to build memorials for the unburied bodies?  It is not a problem to create another coffin, it is just that the empty coffin essentially is a memorial so having to have a memorial as well is kinda silly.

The question I am asking is this.  Were I to create a third coffin, bury my dwarf in it and then remove the second empty coffin to reuse later would the fourth coffin I lay down end up being assigned to the fisherdwarf or the new dwarf?

2051
Since my fortress was created 3 dwarves have died.  One went beserk and had to be strangled, one got swept away in a flood and the third was killed by a wereelephant.

I made a stone coffin and placed it down but the coffin is automatically assigned to the fisherdwarf that got swept away in a floor despite the fact her body is inaccessable and I have already built a memorial.  I have tried it twice but it keeps getting assigned to the fisherdwarf rather than the one that the wereelephant killed.  The body I want to bury is in a refuge stockpile and starting to rot. 

I thought that forbidding the body would sort things out.  It seems that it does not so I have a problem.  I have removed and place the coffin twice now.  Is there some fix for this?

It seems that coffins are assigned in order of death or such like.  Would it work to place an empty coffin, make another one, bury the body and then delete the coffin for the body that is inaccesable in order to reuse it?

2052
You only needed to boil wine due to it being chronically dilute compared to what we are used to. Since dwarves pretty obviously seem to have different livers than we do, I don't think we can assume that they're all drinking small beer and watered wine all the time. They may well be taking everything full strength, and that would be fine for hospitals as well.

HOWEVER, water should need to be accounted for in the creation of that alcohol in the first place. Yes fine for fruit, it might be reasonable to not add water. Might be. For mushrooms and grains, etc. there should be a bucket of water in the reaction.

We need a means of acquiring water, at the moment the only way is wells and rivers.  If you do not have an aquifer or a river then how do you get water for all these processes?

2053
DF Suggestions / Re: Communism
« on: November 20, 2014, 12:30:44 pm »
Heh, dwarves will probably never be Proper Communists™, given their apparently rigid feudal system.

I can totally see the eleves as communists, though. Goblins love their tyranny too much. Some human governments could be run that way, too, should that ever get as randomly generated as it ought to be (and should communism of any sort end up in the game)

They are all Communists as far as we know as they behave like it in Adventure Mode, allowing the use of all fortress goods and the carrying away of plenty.  The dwarves do not actually have a rigid feudal system, what they *do* have is a few isolated elements of a feudal superstructure (3 positions) assimilated into an entirely communist economic and political system.  The situation actually does not make much sense, unless perhaps the dwarves were feudal at some in the past before Yr 0 and those things are a relic. 

Feudalism is a economic/social system, it is not a political regime except in the sene that all economic/social systems perhaps are.  What this means is that merely having Kings/Dukes/Counts does not make you feudal, instead those things were part of the political superstruture of a particular form of feudalism that existed in a particular place.

A feudal version of dwarf fortress would involve having multiple 'governments' in the same site, with a single top government.  You would control only the top government and an AI would govern all the lesser governments production.  Those governments would own their own seperate property and hand over part of their produced wealth.  Your goverment would be expected to carry out particular monopoly functions in retrun, particularly military and legal stuff in return. 

2054
I seem recall an episode of M*A*S*H where British troops with abdominal wounds were given tea for tea time and when they made it to the operating room they had additional problems, as this increased the chance of infection and death. It's the reasoning I've always used for why dwarf patients aren't given alcohol.

Except they will give dwarves muddy and stagnant water to drink or wash wounds instead.

2055
DF Gameplay Questions / Re: So dwarves cannot tame trolls?
« on: November 09, 2014, 08:34:12 am »
They ALSO have the learns tag, as well as the evil tag, which makes them like animal people that are also evil. Both things prevent them from being tamed and the learns tag means they can't be butchered. I don't know why you are so vehement about trolls not being sapient, but the learns tag makes things untamable to dwarves, feel free to search here to prove me wrong:
http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/Category:DF2014:Learns

They might not be considered "people" in the sense of creating their own civilization, but they are considered intelligent enough to gain skills and have professions, and it is NOT a bug that they are unbutcherable. I refer you to the wiki again on Trolls:
http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Troll

I said that there is a bug that causes trolls to be butchered for meat and leather during World-Gen, even though they are not butcherable in Fortress Mode.  They used to be butcherable and then that was removed, but it remains in World-Gen. 

The whole functionality of Can Learn is dependant upon them being tamed, thus presumably that tag allows a creature to be tamed.  Untamed trolls do not have professions, only tamed trolls do.  Can learn means that *if* tamed a creature will be able to do normal work, gain skills and acquire a profession. 

Trolls *are* animals according to the game not people and they can be tamed by anyone who has both Use Cave Animals and Use Evil Animals.  If you wanted dwarves to be able to train trolls all you would have to do would be to remove the Evil tag from trolls or add Use Evil Animals to their entity. 

Trolls are considered animals not people by the game.  This is actually shown by the fact that there are so many trolls in goblin forts, the trolls are treated as livestock and do not compete for space with the goblins. 

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