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Messages - GoblinCookie

Pages: 1 ... 136 137 [138] 139 140 ... 149
2056
DF Gameplay Questions / Re: So dwarves cannot tame trolls?
« on: November 08, 2014, 02:58:26 pm »
Quote from: Aslandus on November 08, 2014, 02:21:03 pm
1. Dwarves always have the same domesticated beasties in worldgen, and they are never, nor will the ever be trolls. It's just too far outside their ethics.
2. If you tell the dwarves to bring a caged troll to the trade depot, they will release the troll in the animal stockpile then carry the cage to the depot, because dwarves refuse to even imply selling thinking creatures. The troll will then be free to wander around your fortress from wherever your animal stockpile is that it was released from.
3. ^
4. Pasture it like you would any other animal, once the dwarf has put it in the pasture it will leave because Trolls are free spirits and don't abide by your rules, man (actually it works with any non-tamed animal, but be careful because the troll may attack the dwarf that pastured it. Again, I always kill them immediately, so I don't know if they attack dwarves that are nearby or not)

I created a pasture right next to the edge of the map (on the surface) and assigned the troll to it.  The troll was led to the pasture without incident and the moment it was released left the map.

It is not the ethics that prevents you from taming trolls.  The reason you cannot tame trolls is that trolls have the EVIL tag in the creature file and dwarves do not have USE_EVIL_ANIMALS in their entity file.  Goblins can use trolls not because their ethics are different but because they have USE_EVIL_ANIMALS and USE_CAVE_ANIMALS in their entity file.  I am rather pleased and a little bit irritated at the same time by the fact that Fortress mode follows the same rules as World-Fen.

Trolls are also quite harmless to people.  There was never any risk that the troll would suddenly turn on any of my dwarves, the only problem is only that they are building destroyers and like to smash stuff that isn't people into tiny pieces.  No need to kill trolls unless they are close to your buildings. 

Trolls are not considered people by the game.  They are unbutcherable animals and that is only in fortress mode (due to a bug) and IF tamed they can do work.  The CAN_LEARN tag is entirely based upon being tamed, it is absolutely no use to a wild animal at all. 

2057
DF Gameplay Questions / Re: Why can't I butcher a dog that died?
« on: November 08, 2014, 02:00:46 pm »
Quote from: Garath on November 08, 2014, 01:56:11 pm
That's very logical, unfortunately, logic and DF don't always mix

Dwarf Fortress inches ever closer to realism.

2058
DF Gameplay Questions / Re: Dwarves not shearing
« on: November 08, 2014, 01:57:32 pm »
Quote from: LMeire on November 07, 2014, 09:42:40 pm
It can, but there'll be a delay on when you can use it without the job cancelling as long as the refuse pile takes wool. It messes up any job that wasn't ordered by the manager if you don't take timing into account.

I am not worried then.  I would never order someone to spin wool until I had yarn stockpiled. 

2059
DF Gameplay Questions / Re: Getting Necromancer Towers
« on: November 08, 2014, 01:54:57 pm »
Quote from: Garath on November 08, 2014, 01:51:37 pm
just checking, but is it now that a person must be of an evil race to go for necromancy? It used to be neutral too and the only requirement being mortal (afraid of death, set out to find the secret of immortality)

No it is not.  Only humans and dwarves can become necromancers and neither of them are evil races. 

2060
DF Gameplay Questions / Re: Why can't I butcher a dog that died?
« on: November 08, 2014, 01:52:31 pm »
Quote from: §k on November 07, 2014, 08:41:48 pm
A dog that died in defending the fort shouldnt be eaten.

A dog happy to die defending the fort in life should be happy to defend the fort with it's bones in death.  :)

2061
DF Gameplay Questions / Re: So dwarves cannot tame trolls?
« on: November 08, 2014, 01:50:19 pm »
Quote from: Aslandus on November 08, 2014, 12:41:46 pm
Trolls have the "learns" tag, which means they can gain skill and are considered intelligent creatures by dwarves, just like animal people, so they can't be tamed or butchered. It seems you're right about the evil thing too, so trolls are double untamable to dwarves.

1. I don't know what you mean by "main" mode, as far as I know dwarf fortress mode is the main mode of dwarf fortress
2. Dwarves will not sell any creature they can't tame (it goes against their ethics of slavery, so it wouldn't be any more right to sell them into slavery than to enslave them themselves), regardless of whether the traders would buy them
3. They'll buy the cage if you send it over, but your dwarves will just release the troll directly into your base where it will case a big ruckus if you try to sell the troll
4. Releasing it is  surprisingly easy, just make a pasture (a pit could work too assuming they're not bugged anymore,  and would probably be safer for your dwarves) where you want to release it and send it over, it will wander out almost immediately and then take it off the pasture list so the dwarves don't try to put it back. I usually throw trolls directly into a weapon trap so I don't have to deal with them, but whatever works for you

1.  I mean World-Gen.  That is the main mode I must have been thinking.
2. You mean that I cannot sell them or that the others will not buy them. 
3. So the troll cage can be sold but the troll will immediately be released if I do so.
4. So you mean what I have to do is create a pasture somewhere and then place an animals stockpile on top of it.  Then when the cage arrives with the troll it will immediately be released.  Or do you mean I must add it to the pasture like another animal.

2062
DF Gameplay Questions / Re: Dwarves not shearing
« on: November 07, 2014, 06:47:07 pm »
Quote from: LMeire on November 06, 2014, 07:31:42 pm
If you have a refuse pile that allows wool/hair, then shearing will generate a job to haul the wool there, preventing a spinning job from tasking it.

Can the spinning job not just take the wool/hair from the refuse stockpile?

2063
DF Gameplay Questions / Re: So dwarves cannot tame trolls?
« on: November 07, 2014, 06:45:01 pm »
Quote from: Sirbug on November 07, 2014, 06:20:50 pm
Trolls are sentient, I think. That's why dwarves can't train them. Goblins can.

I think the reason is that they are Evil creatures, as in creatures with the EVIL tag.

Only entities with the USE_EVIL_ANIMALS flag (not necceserily evil themselves) can use trolls.  They are also cave animals so the entity must have USE_CAVE_ANIMALS as well.

Goblins use trolls because they have both flags, dwarves cannot because they only have cave animals.  What I am interested by is that the rules apply in Fortress mode as well.

Quote from: stabbymcstabstab on November 07, 2014, 06:36:11 pm
If you allow Slavery in the ethics it "might" be possible, similar to how cannibalism allows you to eat Sentients.

Trolls are not considered people by the game.  It does not treat them any differently than any other creature, except that they can perform work because they have CAN_LEARN.  They are supposed to be tamed, that is why that flag is there, it does not do anything otherwise.

To be considered a person you have to have INTELLIGENT flag.

2064
DF Gameplay Questions / Re: Why can't I butcher a dog that died?
« on: November 07, 2014, 06:14:25 pm »
Quote from: Illogical_Blox on November 07, 2014, 05:47:06 pm
If you're very lucky, you'll get a gold warhammer/mace from a mood!

It is actually possible for people to create weaponry through moods out of materials that cannot be used to make said items?

Someone wanted me to give them shining bars of metal in addition to the bone from the slaughtered donkey I had to slaughter in order to give them it.  I had hoped it was bone OR metal, turns out it was actually both.  As I struggled to get everything set up to smelt gold for him, he goes beserk and ends up having to be strangled. 

Thus ended Asob Goldenvipers.  My present plans are to some trade gold bars to the elves if they arrive and have anything of value and by Autumn have created a stack of gem-studden, hungry head bone decorated, scepters and crowns out of gold because that is what is in demand.  I 'told' them I wanted metal-grade metal and hopefully I can buy the whole stack of metal bars for said items. 

Of I could make do selling legendery meals instead. Or wooden wheelbarrows like last time.  :) :)

2065
DF Gameplay Questions / So dwarves cannot tame trolls?
« on: November 07, 2014, 06:05:12 pm »
A troll managed to rip through the door and made it's way into a cage trap.  My dwarves hauled it upstairs to the main stockpile where it sits.  Trolls are apparantly harmless to dwarves, but they like to destroy things that are inanimate. 

My plan was to tame the creature like the goblins do.  But it does not show up in my list of creatures to train or tame.  I figure that this is because trolls are classified as evil creatures that delight in the destruction of furniture and such like.  Some questions however.

1. Do the same restrictions on taming apply in fortress mode that apply in the main mode or am I doing something wrong here?
2. Trolls do not have a pet value, does this mean I cannot see it to a trader or is that noone would accept wild animals that they cannot train.
3. Do people buy caged wild animals even if they have a value?
4. How would I go about releasing said creature from it's cage back into the caverns or into the surface world? I know that we cannot actually make troll burgers and if we cannot sell the creature there is not much else to be done.

2066
DF Gameplay Questions / Re: Why can't I butcher a dog that died?
« on: November 07, 2014, 03:07:42 pm »
Quote from: Garath on November 07, 2014, 02:54:54 pm
yup, kinda silly. But hey, the game is pretty much in pre-alpha (0.4, not even version 1 yet) and of all the issues, silly things and plain bugs, this is one of the least problematic ones. Unless you try to explode a tame elephant for more leather

Leather and bones, leather and bones; you can forget about the meat because dwarves can live without it.   ;D ;D

Basically leather and bones makes armour.  I have not so far run into any weapons-grade metal, only a ton of gold which attracts goblins I've heard. 

It is rather problematic because the amount of leather and bones I get has a definite affect on whether I beat the goblins that said gold supply will attract.  Once I have the gold I can hopefull buy weapons-grade metal with gold items, but that requires me to survive until the second autumn. 

2067
DF Gameplay Questions / Re: Why can't I butcher a dog that died?
« on: November 07, 2014, 02:47:51 pm »
Quote from: Garath on November 07, 2014, 02:39:35 pm
nope. I think if it gets raised by a necromancer and then killed again (before it rots), it can be butchered

I will just have to dump it then.  No plans about inviting necromancers over because I am led to believe that they are among the most lethal enemies that the game has to offer.  It is silly that you cannot butcher tame animals that die and do not have owners but lots of things are silly.

2068
DF Gameplay Questions / Re: Why can't I butcher a dog that died?
« on: November 07, 2014, 02:34:12 pm »
Quote from: Garath on November 07, 2014, 02:27:33 pm
tame animals need to be assigned for butchery (slaughter, that is) while alive. If they die of anything before they get led to be slaughtered, it won't work

There is no way you can assign dead tame animals to be slaughtered then?

2069
DF Adventure Mode Discussion / Re: Where are the prisoners kept in hamlets?
« on: November 07, 2014, 02:10:49 pm »
Quote from: Nikow on November 02, 2014, 12:06:36 pm
They are in random homes, shops and taverns... There is no special place. They have usualy title "slave" or "prisoner".

In this case it is easy.  She will be in The Slippery Diversion hall because she was made a Lady while still a prisoner.

2070
DF Gameplay Questions / Why can't I butcher a dog that died?
« on: November 07, 2014, 02:01:14 pm »
One of my dogs has finally expired from her wounds.  I set the stockpile right next to the butcher's shop to accept corpses but when I tell the dwarves to butcher an animal there, they keep complaining about there not being a nearby  unrotten butcherable animal.

The dog in question is a tame animal that was unowned and died of wound sustained in a fight with troglodytes (I have the fortune/misfortune of shallow caverns). 

I really want the bones and I do not wish to play until I sorted this out because otherwise the dog will rot.

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