Bay 12 Games Forum

Update for 47 - only the raws-only version is updated for now, given the worldgen crashes with the current version. Malefactor addon also updated - infected addon should still work since it lacks any real changes.

Main changes:
-Laser/Frost/Argent bolt attacks are edged now.
-Summons - Summoners, Icons of Sin, Ringmasters, Puppeteers, Clown Cars, Pain Elementals/Rahovarts, Heresiarchs, Serpent Riders and Greater Slayers/Triggermen/Arsonists now have summoning abilities. In the case of Pain Elementals/Rahovarts, it replaces their projectile attack, and in most other cases it replaces reanimation, the only exception being Puppeteers (they can summon one puppet "for free", but for variety's sake they can still puppet-ify corpses).
-Slashing/stabbing attack values rebalanced.
-New creatures - Malefactor Rats and Malefactor Wretches in the Malefactor addon. Malefactor Festers can summon the rats, whereas Malefactor isolationists summon Wretches.  Also, a Man in Black creature also got added - they'll issue warnings to nearby creatures, and once a creature comes too close they'll open fire with their handguns.

I'll release the Necromorph addon once I get the help files for it done, so stay tuned.

Small update for 47 - Leraje's and Forcas' bow/trident attacks are now edged alongside any frost bolt spells, also rebalanced the values of the natural slashing/stabbing attacks some of the demons had. The mend wounds spell some of the demons like Buer have also now stops bleeding, closes wounds, heals tissues and nerves. Hopefully once the worldgen crashes are sorted these'll pop up occasionally as villains.

Awesome.

I reckon even modded raws which worked in 44.12 and are crashing in worldgen in 47.02 must be being caused by vanilla worldgen issues.

Harder to work with I guess. But it can't hurt to post a whole save, especially if it's only you getting those crashes. Some combination of things your mod is pushing raising the chances by a fraction of a percent?

I would guess that in my case whatever's causing the crashes simply occurs faster due to there being more civs and more types of civs.

In any case, I've got my folder backup uploaded here (that is, the entire contents of my raw/objects folder+data/speech, including trunctuated/altered vanilla stuff).

Some crash seeds with this set (also a few non-crash ones for comparisons):
Crashes at year 5 (small world, short history, medium civs, very high everything else)
CREATE WORLD NOW = 3235555
 Seed: gcM4qIE62OMocIGcmKIc
 History Seed: wqG6oQQc84YUwGoWq8qc
 Name Seed: uKmKeW6WyOiakm0esgsq
 Creature Seed: s8aWUCcMsEsoIgSki6QO

Successful generation - year 125 (small world, short history, medium civs, very high everything else)
CREATE WORLD NOW = 3235555
 Seed: akkco02Y6eEm4o6gqyeG
 History Seed: IiCq02YkkSm6EUeeWmyW
 Name Seed: ISC2qEmeykSiUQOEIoQi
 Creature Seed: gcQ86cWGEiyQSS8Ww6Mo

Crash at year 4 - (small world short history, medium civs, very high everything else)
CREATE WORLD NOW = 3235555
 Seed: 25s7UXxpA8XK802JgRGk
 History Seed: 96rlESgq57s3uxnzc9TS
 Name Seed: zALJuffGEhqaWXHsB3Jv
 Creature Seed: NhufYEGmaESHX0Hv0IWK

Crash at year 91 - (medium world, short history, medium civs, high site amount, very high everything else)
 CREATE WORLD NOW = 4234555
 Seed: 3VE0TsCIo8BxzPZBdyFs
 History Seed: dsipqOPOmjZQ7WnGllTU
 Name Seed: 3nERBwZrvyFIuDdlxpZw
 Creature Seed: IT8Yywuim4w18tscQVBo

Crash at year 81 - (medium world, short history, medium civs and sites,  very high everything else)
 CREATE WORLD NOW = 4233555
 Seed: dvgK3U8AM6Nnfb1tTare
 History Seed: 9ScJCYt42bBons7WBDLe
 Name Seed: pFsvlUffZEdqMBD1vVRi
 Creature Seed: QdGuImgCoOOraLWek7pM

Will do more later if needed.

Only natural_skill stuff I really use is unarmed combat skills (grasp/stance strike, wrestling, biting, also general fighter) for wild predators as well as minion creatures and civ pets that aren't found in the wild, and added discipline for the vast majority of creatures, including civilized ones - I vaguely recall the latter being fine (it didn't cause embark crashes which aren't my issue either way), don't remember the former though (although, I'd guess thats mostly fine too since I was able to gen a small world and default amount of civs to 125 years with high everything else - though afterwards with the same parameters it crashed at 40 years).

Now that I think about it, is MILITARY_TACTICS in the list of skills that cause worldgen/embark crashes? I recall giving it to some "leader" castes of beast civs, i.e to Xenomorph queens.

I'll try to get some worldgen params later, can't do so atm, but will post.

Thanks for the hard work Toady. That baby-rider one was nuts. Unfortunately, the first world I generated crashed to desktop in world gen. Here's the seed - happened at year 236. I'm guessing this is the same bug still around - not sure which one.

Generating world using parameter set CREATE WORLD NOW = 1533555
 Seed: iWakcGkogMOSaeWOqOuw
 History Seed: yugSmWQsQEqsA2MGEQSk
 Name Seed: Oeemq4SCm4eg8qcmESsE
 Creature Seed: 62WmMEiwK2QWAk0cYEA4

Getting crashes too, still. Usually takes longer on my end this time, though (though also a bit more irregularly - had one happen at twenty years then later most happen slightly before the 50 year mark).

Still updating mods with summons and the like - these are just some previews. I've split up Warlocks into 3 types and Shamans into 4 as a result of the new summons - some megabeasts and creatures also got their summons (i.e Crypt Lords and nerubian Spiderlords can release carrion beetles), alongside some interactions (i.e Nathrezim have a directed carrion swarm ability, and the aforementioned Crypt Lords and Spiderlords have an undirected locust swarm).

Technically the Warcraft side of things is done in regards to updating (on the most basic level anyway), however I probably won't make a release until 47.02 is out and the crash issues are resolved - currently I cannot get any large world to gen past 30-40 years, consistently crashes (apparently it happens in vanilla too at a smaller rate, but then I'd guess on a larger world with many civs whatever is causing the crash happens faster), so its kind of pointless to even release an update right now. May get in some additional creatures once I'm done updating the Diablo mod, who knows - it'd mostly be some of the new model variations for existing creatures from Reforged (yeah I know it sucks, hopefully it won't curse the mod - atleast the new models look nice and are more varied than the different tints back in WC3), though I also plan on adding some of the hero or caster types as innate castes for some races (i.e goblin tinkers with their claw-hammer backpacks, night elf wardens, undead death knights as a caste rather than a spell user type, gnoll wardens or orc shamans, etc.)

Still probably need to adjust new noble positions too so that might take a while(i.e different names for dungeon master/spymaster, add in the other ones that dont have much effect yet or only have a worldgen effect).

Unfortunately no, its the same issue as with necromancy - targetting for resurrection doesnt take into account whether the target was friendly or not and it doesnt seem to be possible to change it.

Quote from: ZM5 on February 01, 2020, 10:38:21 am

Weird thing - I used a modded summon interaction to summon some sentient creatures in arena mode. When I used k to look at their descriptions in the default arena view (the one thats more like the fort mode view) it crashed the game.
However, when I took control of the summoner, used the interaction, and looked at the description again while still in control, it didnt crash.
Back in the fort mode view it crashed again. I'm not sure if this would translate to fort mode as well but it might be worth looking into if it does - it reminds me of a similar "looking at description" crash when a creature would be permanently transformed in worldgen into something that has descriptors i.e hair and eye colours and/or body part descriptions ("his ears have great, swinging lobes", etc.)

EDIT: Did some more fiddling, seems to happen only with creatures that are capable of speech. Not sure why.

Are you playing in windowed mode? Viewing the description of some creatures in arena crashes in windowed mode for some reason.
http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=10831

I was, but it didn't seem to be consistently occuring with other creatures. Also just now tried it in fullscreen mode, still crashes with the same couple of intelligent summons, so I don't think this is the same issue.

Quote from: Demonic Gophers on February 02, 2020, 02:13:48 am

Quote from: TomiTapio on January 31, 2020, 08:02:37 am

I just found that OldGenesis mod "crash on pressing embark" is caused by our twelve-castes dwarf creature definition.
Using vanilla dwarf creature I was able the remove the crash.

I've gotten a similar crash-on-embark issue and decided to do a little testing.  I put together a lightly modded entity with a fairly simple two-caste creature and was able to embark.  So I switched it for an almost identical creature with 15 castes and three body plans and tried again.  Embarked with no obvious problems, so the number of castes doesn't seem to be the cause.  I'll keep adjusting things and see if I can isolate the trigger.


And seriously, can we try to avoid a fiery social debate on this thread?  Having some entity-level controls on what relationships are considered appropriate would be nice in the long run, but this doesn't seem like the place to hash it out.

Only one person got mad. The rest of us just kinda reacted to it.
But yeah if any more conversing/arguing happens about the subject it should go
On the suggestion forum. ( I personally think the new relationship stuff is cool as heck which is why I tried to explain why it’s awesome)

Eh, I wouldn't even call it getting mad, I do personally agree with both Strik3r's and Chaosegg's sentiments - it definitely would come across as jarring for members of a race defined by its loyalty or one thats very conservative still sleeping around, cheating and divorcing at the same rate as a race like goblins who probably are more loose in that regard.

From a modding perspective, I'd guess some personality+value combinations might affect it, i.e low lustfulness and/or high respect for tradition (though the latter is a bit "eh" since ofc tradition would mean different things for dwarves and goblins) - high loyalty value in a civ may also affect it - I'm slightly confused as to why its a civ value rather than a personality trait, but regardless - individuals in a high loyalty civ probably wouldnt be cheating on each other much and ones that arent loyal most likely wouldnt be able to step outside of the boundaries much lest they be socially shunned - thats what I'd expect, anyway.