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Messages - ldog

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136
Looking at what you are doing today. Constructed walls include a walkable floor on top, so the long paths aren't necessary.
I'm more inclined to keep that main pasture stairwell. While the undead siege thankfully didn't climb the outside stairs and jump down through my unfinished roof, I would expect goblins to.
Secured with a hatch it makes it easy to build more levels later if desired.

Should probably add an order for leather cloak, I still don't really know how tailor plugin works but assuming it won't create military uniform. Pre-candy I add a leather cloak to the all steel uniform, also don't know if you missed but absolutely yes, BP & greaves + mail shirt & leggings. The only reason I don't assign pants, shirt, socks, mittens as well are because the idiots have trouble dressing themselves and will leave a boot or glove off.

I still need to verify if the soldiers will store their civilian clothes in cabinets in barracks when assigned to store personal goods. Getting steel going now and actually got a decent armorer in 3rd migrant wave so will find out soon.

137
Oh, the masons aren't any fault of Quickfort, it's DF. Construction (at least for skill requirement jobs, not the general hauling) should be higher priority than crafting but it isn't.
The other issue is even when they get out of the shop it's like they would rather do ANYTHING except construction. Same for mechanic and carpenter. They will start hauling even. I guess I should turn that off on them too when I need them. Generally I have pretty much everyone haul everything. I've found that craftjobs take up so little time, especially for legendary skilled that having everyone haul when they aren't otherwise occupied works well.

Can you chain the orders? Like I will queue them all up, but like I will make surface6 jobs trigger when 5 is done, 5 when 4 is done, etc.

Seeing my mechanic is done with making mechanisms, it seems construction actually is part of the problem. He'd rather work on walls/floors than build traps.

Just queued services order, still confused how it comes up with orders for 5 blocks, 5 wells, 5 blocks, which is 1.25 builds not 5.

Actually I am liking that inside stairs for permanant roof access. With a hatch over it of course. I don't think there are any flying building destroyers.

138
A categorized announcement viewer with bells and whistles? Heresy!
Why is this not in the LNP!
Really awesome, looking forward to giving this a whirl.
Can it filter out sparring?

It's filtered by default in a way - the gamelog doesn't specify whether it's the real combat or just training, so with default filters DFAssistant only shows combat events that result in someone(thing) losing a body part or dying. That way it filters out all sparring, since usually training doesn't result in maiming.

Also, in terms of spam, it's especially an issue when dwarves are constrained to a borrow, and they can't reach something. Gamelog generates a stupid amount of spam in those cases. The way DFA handles that is two-fold: it'll simply "count" repeating messages that go one after another ("dwarf can't reach ale (x178)") and you can also disable the sound alerts for the Engineering advisor to not hear its notification sound during heavy log spam.

Thirdly, if you really don't want to see certain messages, remember that you can also edit the filters in the settings file to your liking.

Very cool! Thanks!

139
Does anyone have a good set of filters, either for this or any of the clones (soundcense, soundsense rs) to filter out sparring?
I have gotten rid of just about every sound I can think of that I could and yet still the noise is constant. My soldiers are always sparring, which defeats the purpose of the sound engine like the boy who cried wolf. I've gone back to this version since the other ones fail to work more often than not (rs plays when it feels like it, c just doesn't want to load).

The problem seems to be NOT "(.+), lightly tapping the target!" needs to be appended to every hit entry if possible (which wouldn't be too bad) or every stinking hit entry needs to be created with every combination other than "(.+), lightly tapping the target!" which would suck in the extreme. I can't believe I am the only one who has slowly been driven insane by this over the years.

There isn't any way to differentiate between an attack that's attempted in combat versus sparring, since the "lightly tapping" message never occurs. That means you can't have any sound for misses or dodges, for starters. It should be possible to differentiate between some of the blows that land, however. I don't think wrestling joint locks occur in sparring, for example.

What I ended up doing is just commenting out most of everything in battle.xml, hitevents.xml, and strikes.xml that doesn't relate to taking damage. (I also disable the vomit sounds in status.xml.) It's unfortunate that you can't hear when creatures are merely trying to kill each other, but it's better than turning off combat sounds altogether.

The problem with the lightly tapping is it is always tied to a regular strike. I did rip out all the miss/block/dodge.
Like you and DarkDyr suggested, filter down to the damage seems the only viable option.

140
Fresh embark with latest files.
Something is wrong with the forbidcrafts alias. And bypassing that it's choking on forbidbronze or something on that line.
Bizarre because the melt pile was all working before.

Otherwise so far so good, just hit Spring with last few workshops on industry level being built. No volcano on this one so regular metalworking for now.
Farming level done, other than the tables/chairs/doors. Already crafting those and then we'll be onto glorious...rock...blocks...

Not sure why this one went so fast, I think closer (like 50 blocks away, so not sure) to the wagon.
I did build temp smelter & forge right next to the wagon. I also slapped down 2 masons and quickly knocked out 10 rock blocks from the starting quartzite and then disassembled them.
I get wheelbarrows made early out of the starting willow to keep the stone moving fast. I don't think I had any more or less trees in my build spot than last embark.
The only other thing I can think of is I skipped plant gathering for now, also the grower didn't bother planting anything this season. That all turned into extra labor. I even did get everyone mining briefly to finish the industry dig.

Farming3 not setting dormitory as dormitory. Hadn't noticed before since I generally designate the rooms by hand, because I can't wait for the level to be done.
Checklist missing "quickfort orders library/dreamfort.csv -n /farming3"
I did another tab for xlsx orders btw.

Outer main and depot gates got skipped for some reason. I just noticed it now, although it was some time ago I ran the command. All it says for them is no building at coordinates, skipping name, there was no build error. The next line is successfully completed. The spreadsheet is correct.

Fall has come. Finishing up the bridges (difficult to get the masons to leave their shops, have to go suspend all their jobs) and ready to run surface5. Guildhall is about half dug as well and services designated. Oh, got 5 adult migrants last season, 2 are legendary bonecrafters lmao, first time I've gotten pre-mooded dorfs, which kinda sucks...also 1 who had been possesed I guess since his skills all suck. Not the greatest but I'm happy to get 5 warm bodies 1st wave.
 
The downward stairs for the roof got removed at some point so they didn't finish building up there.

Life is much better since you told me about using the build planner filter!

141
So I've got a couple issues. It works sometimes. I can't find any logs or config files. I know there is a config stored somewhere, because my volume settings are saved.
Ignore file format is my other, if I can't filter out sparring then any sound program for DF is useless to me, because it is like the "boy who cried wolf" and I just start ignoring the combat sounds.
By year 2 there is never not sparring happening at any given time.

142
A categorized announcement viewer with bells and whistles? Heresy!
Why is this not in the LNP!
Really awesome, looking forward to giving this a whirl.
Can it filter out sparring?

143
Does anyone have a good set of filters, either for this or any of the clones (soundcense, soundsense rs) to filter out sparring?
I have gotten rid of just about every sound I can think of that I could and yet still the noise is constant. My soldiers are always sparring, which defeats the purpose of the sound engine like the boy who cried wolf. I've gone back to this version since the other ones fail to work more often than not (rs plays when it feels like it, c just doesn't want to load).

The problem seems to be NOT "(.+), lightly tapping the target!" needs to be appended to every hit entry if possible (which wouldn't be too bad) or every stinking hit entry needs to be created with every combination other than "(.+), lightly tapping the target!" which would suck in the extreme. I can't believe I am the only one who has slowly been driven insane by this over the years.

144
I went through the automation orders. I saw a few repeats of Lye and soap, I think left over from the experiments. I kept only the original lye and soap from tallow, removing the soap from oil (which I saw had a bad condition -- the one forgotten when a game is reloaded).

You added steel breastplates and greaves. I had left those out since mail shirts and leggings are superior and cover the same body parts (or so I understand). Do we need breastplates and greaves as well?

Uploaded integrated/clean/categorized/alphabetized version here

Oops. There should be exactly 2 make lye and 2 make soap. The make lye as you had it plus 1 that checks the other soap job. The 2nd soap job from oil. I'll have to doublecheck what I did here.
BP & greaves are worn over mail & leggings. The mail is better against blunt and of course the parts the rigid armor doesn't cover but slash/pierce is much better on plate. Armor actually stacks too. Supposedly (I never really played Adventurer) wearing like 6 mail shirts and a bp and other shenanigans used to be the way to go. I never bothered with any of that, but a full suit + cloak is what I usually assign. I gave up trying to do other clothes because of the frustration of them screwing it up, but the cloak gives some level of protection to the entire body. Including the face. I think the armor & weapons stock counts should be higher too. I made half a squad from the last migrant wave, would have been nice to have equipment ready for them.

I am of course assuming none of these things changed from 44 to 47.

Edit - Oh, I forgot, you didn't have the ash and empty buckets checks. I'm always trying to minimize the job failure spam. The lye condition sorta works, the problem was when the barrel got tasked it stopped seeing it, which caused the trigger, and then the job went again, and the barrel got tasked again, and the job triggered again. Ad nauseum. Unneeded with the soap job trigger, I was curious to see how it works with buckets since the stockpile doesn't have barrels.

Some of the other jobs I am thinking of cutting to smaller batch sizes too.

Keep forgetting, barracks only needs like 1-2 coffers. For ammo mostly (they should store packs & waterskins in it when not in use). Squad ammo bugs were finally fixed some time ago. I'm not sure about racks and armor stands at the moment (if they actually work for storing things, I think it was a DFHack that made them useable and I don't see it anymore). Need cabinets so they don't drop all their clothing all over. Hospital doesn't need them (unless it's just for decoration) again 1-2 coffers. I think they'll bathe with the soap from the hospital storage too. I had a fort once with a marksdorf who had an infection that never went away (he was badly wounded in the first siege and I kept waiting for him to die, he never did). I made him a hunter, and in between hunts I observed him grabbing a bucket and soap and going to wash at the well regularly.

Oh! The lye-containing items is the bugged one? Can remove it from the oil soap, it'll work similar to the tallow one then.

145
    TODO:
    • Heavy feeder stockpiles for corpses, boulders, and ores. this includes designing and implementing a mechanism for blueprints to specify (at stockpile creation time) how many wheelbarrows a particular stockpile should have
    I think you should go ahead and add the piles, it's easy enough to manually add wheelbarrows until you get the code for them, but would save a lot of trouble. Cut the current feeder to 6 tiles. Make a 12 tile feeder for gems (build a 4x5 around the other piles, works out to 12 useable). Remove gems from stone. Metal just keeps the stones, everything else goes to the light feeder. Split the current trash feeder into 2 2x3. Corpses (both types) go into the lower pile, the refuse stays in the top. Add the 3 new piles to the hauling routes. Done. Even without the wheelbarrows it won't make anything any worse (other than the potential for more concurrent hauling jobs, which situationally can be good or bad).
    Notes:
    • From your reports, it seems that the current lye-soap order chain is the best we can do (for now). is that right?
    Yeah unfortunately. There's a few things in workorders I wish Toady would fix. Milkable animals another condition that doesn't work, I tried adding it to the autogenerated milking order. Material exclusions another thing I wish for (use any wood other than willow, any stone other than jet, specific plants, etc). Still it has come a long way.
    • It wouldn't be too difficult to extend combine-plants and combine-drinks to iterate over all stockpiles and automatically combine stockpiles that have the appropriate item types enabled. I suggest filing a feature request bug
    Oh that would be awesome. Would save me a lot of trouble. I run them frequently.
    • If you want walls/floors built out of a particular material, you can set the filter in buildingplan and quickfort will use it. for example, to set walls to be made out of quartzite: bCwPM{Right}quartizite{Enter}{Shift}{Enter}. you just have to set the filter before you run the quickfort blueprint.
    That's awesome too. Was going to ask if there was any way to do that. Do I leave it open instead of "k-menu"?
    • I forbid tallow in the cookables pile since it's enabled in the 'goods' quantum on the industry level (for use in soap). the kitchen will still use it, but with it stored so far away, all the higher-quality cookables will be used first.
    Yeah, I realized that at some point after I mentioned it. Makes perfect sense.
    • Right now I only enable crafts in the trade depot QSP. are there any other item types we should add here?
    That's a very discretionary item. Eventually I like to trade away EVERYTHING less than masterwork, other than most metal goods (higher than 33% return on melting). Obviously one cannot start out that way. My first caravan trade usually consists of 20-30 spiked wooden balls (which is pretty much enough to buy out the caravan, even giving them insane profit; happy carvan master==larger immigrant waves). As I said on another strategy-crafting thread once, DF trade is not like RL trade. It isn't to make a profit, it is to get rid of unwanted shit.
    • I normally dig a quarry below the apartment levels for more stone for the masons. would this be useful to add to the blueprint set?
    If you've got something elaborate (or even just something cool), maybe with minecart tracks? (I'd love to see someone actually do something with them). I normally use reveal to find a patch of whatever I want and then just designate a large block/the entire vein as needed.
    • The traps outside the main gate aren't very useful for sieges (since you can't protect them with bridges to reset them during the siege), but they're great capturing wildlife that are pathing past your fort in peacetime. I found they are excellent for harvesting wild meat.
    I actually caught a couple keas in them so I am now a big fan.
    #$%@&! keas!
    • Barracks on the surface is in it's own stage, true, but the roof needs to be completed first, otherwise we can't place the beds (need to be "indoors"). When I split the roof construction, though, I can make sure the beds tiles are covered in an early stage
    Found that out the hard way lol.
    • Re: I unsuspended jobs that didnt have materials ready for them -- yeah, this is buildingplan's bane. It's on my backlog to see if I can prevent buidlingplan-managed buildings from being manually unsuspended from the jobs list. They're already protected when querying the building itself, but, as you found, there are other ways to unsuspend.
    I can break anything. I am the reason error-trapping is a thing. ;)
    • Sandbags in metal QSP - I'm having second thoughts about this one. I'm worried splitting furniture across two stockpiles will cause confusion. the current furniture QSP is really not that far away -- just 12 tiles (true, the metalworker QSP is only 4 tiles away, but is the increased efficiency for making glass worth the added complexity?)
    I think you are right. For ease of designation it is fine to leave them. The few extra tiles probably doesn't make much difference (only for heavy things like stone does it really matter). I tend to get all granular with the piles, but even the master himself(https://www.reddit.com/r/MechGuides/) only uses 5 piles. I'm not sure the way I do them is worth the extra work, but workflow wasn't a thing back when I originally started using QSP.
    New aliases needed in your aliases.txt:
    (until the next DFHack release, when they'll be in the standard alias library)
    [/list]
    Code: [Select]
    crafts: {finishedgoodsprefix}{Right}f{Right}{Down 9}{togglesequence 9}^
    forbidcrafts: {finishedgoodsprefix}{Right 2}{Down 9}{togglesequence 9}^
    permitcrafts: {forbidcrafts}
    bronzeweapons: {metalweapons}{forbidmetalweapons}{permitbronzeweapons}
    forbidbronzeweapons:  {weaponsprefix}{Right}{Down 2}{Right}{Down 6}&^
    permitbronzeweapons:  {forbidbronzeweapons}
    bronzearmor: {metalarmor}{forbidmetalarmor}{permitbronzearmor}
    forbidbronzearmor: {armorprefix}{Right}{Down 6}{Right}{Down 6}&^
    permitbronzearmor:  {forbidbronzearmor}
    Ahhh, thanks for that!

    146
    Spring of 2nd year and surface mostly done. Getting the traps built takes forever. Did get a 2nd (low-level) mechanic in this wave at least.
    Wave after wave of keas have shown up this year, I forgot how truly annoying they are. Much cancellation spam. Militia squad has been killing them at least.
    Thought I was going to have goblins, but it turned out to be just a human thief; a couple wardogs ripped her apart.
    Realized I missed the 1 tile dump zone in services (was getting crashes again).
    Had some oddities and aggravations, partly because I want particular stone used for particular things, partly because trying to work in your own side projects while the quickfort orders & builds are processing just leads to fighting over resources. I had to unbuild quite a bit.

    So is it just me or did crafting times get longer (last time I played was when 44 was current)? I feel like my starting 7 used to be able to accomplish more. Granted sieges were also guaranteed to come by 1st winter if not before so there was much more rush to get dug in.


     

    147
    I tested the new layout and ironed out the obvious bugs, but I got distracted: since you've been seeing crashes, I've been running DF in a debugger while I playtested the new layouts, and I finally got it to crash. With lethosor's help, I think I tracked down the reason. It shouldn't be too hard to fix, but it might take me a few days to write and test the code. Once it's merged, you could pick up a dev build and overwrite your LNP version. Fewer crashes might be better for your psyche : )

    I like how compact everything is now - it really makes it easier to get settled.

    Btw, the new trade goods quantum needs a new alias: crafts. I'll post the definition when I get back to my computer (on phone).

    If you're updating the automation orders in your fort, could you export the json and upload it somewhere (or post it here)? If you are already expanding the orders and updating the conditions, I'd hate to just be duplicating your work.

    Glad you guys are tracking down and fixing bugs. I've only had the odd crash since we figured out the zone issue.

    I tried the new layout out last night, even with some mishaps (dead civ - wound up with the king already, aquifer all over this embark - cancellations make me nuts, and I needed to divert for engraving) making good progress, caravan just leaving and I have drawbridges and levers down, ready to start walls. I went with 2 full masons this time. I got the bright idea to make the masons engravers and the miners architects (flipped from my usual) after reading up on guilds a bit. I regret it and will revert next embark. Mason & engraver are considered the same general guild. I think it isn't as bad as I originally thought with the individual skill guilds since I believe it is not just dorfs with levels of skill, but it being their actual profession (highest skill). As there are a dozen guilds just to cover the basics I really don't want anymore, although I might be making something out of a non-issue. We will see. Most of the new features seem to add nothing but headaches.

    I'll be happy to export the orders.
    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1lK8bRqN0_d3T7YeSZIpRCryftMF-dfVu/view?usp=sharing

    Added make cheese, mill seeds, press oil, make soap from oil, coal & lignite check to charcoal, barrel req to brew drinks, brew drinks from fruit, steel pick/crossbow/breastplate/greaves, smelt orders for all other ores and alloys. I think that's everything. Scaled brew orders in half for more reliable production. I was getting dangerously low on booze waiting for 10 empty pots.

    I'm still getting a lot of dangerous terrain cancellations around the ramps, I don't understand. This has never happened before. Are you seeing them as well? It's like they all got butterfingers and drop items on the ramp all the time. Figured this out too, tree root right next to ramp made a hole. Fixed the hole and problem went away.

    10/12 - Roof 1/4 done, but I had some issues with the walls not being finished in spots and trying to snag blocks is hard. I think I'd like more hard stops in between some stages. The roof being a good example since it can wait a bit usually. Roof over center and doorways in surface5 (because those evil keas), the rest in surface6. Barracks maybe becomes 7. I do like the idea of barracks in it's own stage so it can be ordered and built sooner if needed. Also getting floors made out of potash and gold even though I have all but blocks disabled. NM, I know what happened, I unsuspended jobs that didnt have materials ready for them.

    I don't remember crafting being a higher priority than building construction. Annoying me to no end that of the 3 masons none can find time to build/destroy in months. The quirks of this game seem worse than ever.

    148
    It would make sense to share my embark too I guess. It's a variation off ye venerable craftlords & all it's variants.

    Oh wow, is Craftlords venerable now? I feel honored! And old!

    Have you seen the current "Annotated" version where I explain the design choices?

    I'm waiting for the next release to update it.

    Well hello. I have actually, nice work on it! The equipment loadout I went with is actually based off that one, although disciplined craftlords has been a heavy influence on all my embark profiles over the years. I'm still a huge advocate of discipline for everyone.

    Quartzite is my choice over bauxite because I get a distressing amount of fails on bauxite and I like the nice clean white.
    I bring a nestbox because I've found it will be Fall before I can be arsed to make them otherwise. The need to get cleared and dug in fast I also brought the axe and picks. Since the crashes gave me the joy of restarting over and over again, I did get to closely observe some things. Even making 6 picks it is still less productive than embarking with 2. I can't seem to get it done in less than a month. Then of course with this fort your 4 basic crafters are tied up forever. Pretty much leaves the farmer doing everything until migrants.

    We're into the next year. Levers and links built since we ran out of stone for mechanisms. Outside gate traps set (not sure they are useful, mobs will probably avoid?) Still quite a bit of floor to build. I'm looking forward to the new smaller design for next run.
    Work orders - brew needs check for empty containers (5) to reduce cancellation spam, also brew fruit job. 400 drinks is only 16 barrels, I like to keep more.
    Armor and weapons, I'm torn between liking more stock on hand (sometimes I will designate an entire squad at once) and the fact that this is quick and easy to get running, also for melting & reforging until we get all good pieces. It does keep the workflows running smooth I guess.
    I give up with the lye - 2 orders, 1 tied to tallow soap as original, 1 to oil soap. I also added condition of max 5 lye (in case we somehow do have a barrel full) The 1 barrel stockpile seems fine.
    Still no paper, I can't imagine we haven't produced enough pig tail by now, need to check all the relevant orders, might need to tinker them to ensure stock for all jobs happens from time to time.
    Should probably set limit on plant cloth for process plants job.
    I think too much milling flour instead of making booze going on too. I need to find how I used to handle dye production. At one time I used custom reactions but they got to be a pain (because graphics packs override them, etc) FOUND IT! millable unrotten dye plants (NM, I forgot that won't change the job, it will still mill anything) I think I did it from a specially linked mill & pile, I did a lot of micromanaged shit, unfortunately lost my more recent stuff - dead computer, corrupt/incomplete backups.
    Collect sand - empty boxes and bags at least a few (I use10) , sand-bearing items at most 10 (seems like a good amount). I like to keep orders for green glass stuff and things in stock as well, but I guess this might not be for everyone.
    Make rock crystal into pearlash.

    Actually watching you work on plans in real time. Didn't know the Google had collaboration features.
    siegebait! I love it! Yeah, was gonna mention adding 2nd guard dog pasture, when the one by stairs gets crowded it leads to accidents. As soon as the first litter of pups is born I start spliting them.

    New farm level looks good too. Realized after I said flip it, that the vents would require a full redesign. Also have to worry about trees growing on top of areas that wouldn't have fit in new fort.


    149
    What do you think of this design for the surface level? https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1vlxOuDOTsjsZ5W45Ri1kJKgp3waFo8r505LfZVg5wkU/edit#gid=232787567
    compact enough?

    Yes! Maybe make the trap corridors 1 wide even, since it would force everything through the traps and allow you to start with less of them. Extensions could always be built surrounding the complex later if desired.

    150
    I've been following along with your changes on google drive, so have tried out some of the new surface fort, it helps a lot.
    I ran surface5 finally just as we are about to go into winter.

    The non-booze not having barrels has been a problem for me, it draws more pests, and if you are plant gathering it will get overfull, and then meals will get left in kitchen (I cook a few meals before getting dug in) and rot. I also want all plumps brewed asap, which relies on the barrels from the food used to make the first lavish meal.

    Probably a smaller surface fort. I'd cut the plots, nests and hives in half really. The pastures too. Even for a pop of 200+. Could make it concentric, with the later plans expanding it, wrap the trap lines around the outside, make a killzone, etc. The doublewidth walls can go too (even though they look cool with my texture pack).

    Good on the other tips. That helps a lot. Repeat won't work because the script needs to be ran on a stockpile directly.

    Yes, sandbags are their own item type. Furniture>Types>Sand bags (all the way at the bottom). Been like that long as I can remember.

    The potash count is higher actually (which is good, I like to have extra), but it isn't a big deal since it's not like the ashery is going to get full enough to be cluttered in all liklihood.

    Stock LNP here. After some thought though, I would put the tallow in that pile anyway. Otherwise, the kitchen will be cluttered with tallow within a couple years if you've got an advanced meat industry.

    Oh, do leave space for a QSP near Depot (there is room currently). I like to do an auto-tradetrash dump for low quality crap.

    Walls about done (although much of the floor not, 64 blocks to go...and then the hundreds for the roof)  11/10, of course none of the levers are built, mechanic still has 34 mechanisms to go. I have all 3 masons shops being worked too. The 3 miners barely keeping up for stone too. This is just too labor intensive for early game.

    So I can't seem to reliably get the make lye to stop, some task decides to grab the barrel (probably to dump bucket in) and then the lye in the barrel becomes unseen and the task triggers. Vicious cycle. It could be because I have labor problems, but I'm starting to think your method is better.

    Oh, I think the farming level should be flipped N-S. So piles tend to fill from top left to bottom right, which means it is always a far walk from the kitchen. Also it might help make dorfs prefer to eat meals. I still see too many of them mawing on raw fruits & veggies.

    Along with wheelbarrows, making masons/etc take from QSP prevents the jackasses from running down 10 levels and 40 east to lug a piece of stone back by hand.

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