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Messages - ldog

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151
Utilities and 3rd Party Applications / Re: DFHack: quickfort | buildingplan | blueprint | blueprints/library
« on: January 25, 2021, 04:00:16 pm »
Continuing from 1/20 I decided to dig out the farm level first, I want to say it was finished around 2/16. The miners shot up 3 levels, which is good since I don't want the other 4 guys going past lvl 5 (moods).
Bronze picks are done too, but for the moment I want everyone crafting since the farm level needs stuff. Letting the doors wait, it's just way too many so early, stone is actually at a premium.

So we made it to summer without incident this time. Industry is about 80% dug out with just the 2 miners mining. Farming is done. So the extra unskilled miners wouldn't have made much difference.
I put another 2 hatches in the lower ramp, and locked them, prior to the crash we had a hungry head infestation. IIRC building destroyers can't destroy stuff about them, and I don't think flying building destroyers are upper cavern monsters anyway.
I worked around the build orders with a combination of creating them by hand/copying the individual spreadsheet contents to the csv. Being particular (AR) about which blocks get used for what, I designated the few surface floors and walls by hand.
So we are more or less secure (from low level threats) and food is underground.
*Bug* Seeds & booze wound up in cookable food. Technicaly they are but wrong pile. Also half the tallow is not forbidden, and it's run of the mill stuff not procedurally generated.
4/10 Industry dug out. Not too shabby. We can concentrate on finishing the farm layer furniture now.
Lay down industry2, adjust my feeder piles, remove forge/smelters, dig out magma tunnels and layout smelters

Got a very decent first migrant wave for a change! 7 adults. Legendary Dr, Glass worker. Someone with steel & axe pref (will be another weaponcrafter). No useless pets. A passable soldier.
Starting dig for services, after due consideration I am skipping the wells in the cells. I just don't think they merit their own wells and the risk of them running out of booze should be slim. As Aahz said, "I said bring me something to drink, not something to bathe in!"
Singletile piles too, I can't see tying up a lot of resources. Also I won't actually build the jail stuff until later. Hospital and tavern are priorities or I would dig this level later.
As I'm going to tap the nearby brook for water I add 3 mechanisms, a floodgate and a grate to build orders

So I'm getting a lot of job cancellations for storing items - dangerous terrain. Seems to be the double ramp somehow. I've never had these issues with the single, or even the triple I used extensively in another design. Possibly because of the way it is crammed in the space, so will stick with the plan (thank god for tiletypes)
I let things settle a bit (building & hauling) it is now 5/12,
Run import automation - create the other jobs I mentioned. Change the lye-making, also make seperate 1 tile piles for lye and milk of lime with a barrel since I want to experiment.
Turn booze cooking back on (now that we have no fear of cooking all our booze)
I have 3 miners now (1 immigrant was lvl 6), while I tend to turn on peasant labors for most dorfs, reading up on guild formation it sounds like a bad idea now - I don't mind a guild for each craft group, but I don't need 10 different farming peasant skill guilds FFS! (anyone made a mod to cut down on this?)
*WARNING* Process plants to barrel is no bueno; getting them to cook with syrup requires so much shenanigans to be not worth it. Better to make sweet pods into booze. I know some people like it as a trade good but at least set the input very high.
Magma is just reaching the forges (5/16)
Make a maximum size zone across farming level for plant gathering (since we've got cave fungus)

Made it to the fall. Things are quiet. Slow going all the masonry. Still making doors for farming2, just barely started on blocks for surface4. Need more masons!

*BUG* Meltables piles taking from cloth QSP (which was original metal QSP location) sorry I didnt notice this earlier.
*SCIENCE!* So about the lye. My order works. The trick is making it stop ;) The lye has to be in a barrel to count as the shutoff for the work order to make lye. For making soap it will count lye in buckets or barrel. So the single tile stockpile with a barrel. I haven't gotten around to paper but I imagine it works more or less the same, will see when I get enough pigtails.

152
Utilities and 3rd Party Applications / Re: DFHack: quickfort | buildingplan | blueprint | blueprints/library
« on: January 24, 2021, 09:51:08 pm »
It would make sense to share my embark too I guess. It's a variation off ye venerable craftlords & all it's variants. A little more noob friendly than the purer ones, not as good for moodables, designed for getting dug in rapidly.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
New activity log: (and I'm just going to keep adding to this like a running checklist/notes)
Set additional labors with DT
Set bookkeeper (and full precision),manager, broker
Adjust autobutcher settings
Set all dogs to be war trained (and not butchered). Designate booze not for cooking.
Designate wagon to disassemble (because it is far from my building spot anyway)
Find spot with surface 4, unset, designate surface 1. Clean up some undesired tiny ponds with tiletypes
Redesignate zones, assign geese, pack animals. Do not assign dogs until they are trained. Place nestbox. Add gather plants & clay, meeting zone(temp because wagon is far) to main pasture zone.
Build mason, smelter, forge
Queue orders for: 10 quartzite blocks, 2 coke, 1 bronze from ore, 4 bronze picks, 3 willow buckets, 9 willow wheelbarrows (obviously I've brought the materials)
Unpause
2 miners grab the copper picks and get to it
carpenter assigned woodcutter, grabs copper axe and cuts trees
weaponsmith/grower starts building forge
other 3 knuckleheads train the dogs and then I turn on plant gathering, cooking, brewing, milk, cheese, butcher, tanning, forge operator for them
since I've breached the cavern (on purpose), I designate some of the ramps mark only so that I am only vulnerable to flyers, until I can make a secure entrance
run surface2 and industry1 (1/18)

And the game crashed at that point. It is possible I screwed up with the zones though (was trying to be lazy and use the namer), will go back and comment them out.

Reload from embark (fortunately I keep ALL levels of saves and backups enabled)

baG - turn off everything except blocks
run surface2 and industry1 (1/20 was slower this time)
I undesignate the crafter and mechanic since I will not run the orders that need them until industry2 is underway
I also make some changes to the pile more suited to what I brought - this is a highly personalized thing since it depends what one brought, everyone should adjust as needed
*STRONG RECOMENDATION* Do not seperate surface temp food piles, just make 1 big 1, will cut down early game barrel shenanigans. Recommend for everyone.
Are 60 surface plots really necessary? :P I'd say designate less initially, ain't nobody got time fo'dat!
I undesignate the crafter and mechanic since I will not run the orders that need them until industry2 is underway. I do leave the 2nd mason so that the stonecrafter can also help make blocks
I also make some changes to the pile more suited to what I brought - this is a highly personalized thing
Designate temp kitchen, still, farmers workshop - brew the plump helmets before my fucktards eat them, milk yak and make cheese,  cook some meals
Queue up 4 hatch covers, they will go on surface to provide some minimal protection (I went with dual 2-wide ramps)
I run combine-plants & combine-drinks as needed to keep things tidy (I wish there was a way to automate these to run periodicly)
Now because I've collected all these stupid misc plants I wish I had put my custom booze reactions back in, I want the plumpers brewed first. At least I can turn the others off from the kitchen for the moment.
Bronze picks completed (2/12) as soon as they are finished up with the current orders everyone else but the carpenter/woodcutter will go help mine. Industry1 is half dug at this point.

   Status Update 3/1 All digging, maybe 3/5 done with industry1. I had to give the miners a kick in the ass, for some reason they stopped working.
I find changing the priority designation on a few tiles usually gets their asses in gear, but I feel I should have been further along by now. Of course there is so much work to be done and so few dorfs to do it. All wine is brewed and as many lavish meals as we could make. I'll butcher the yaks as soon as we get farming level shops in. Which probably won't be til next season.
Buried in creepy crawler remains (90+) sick of looking at them, autodump into volcano.

Can't figure out how to make orders work from xlsx. I put the csv back into the directory as well, just have to be careful not to mix stuff up and cancel what is no longer needed.

Industry finished digging (3/23) forgot to mention we queued up orders, probably later than we should have, but at least I can cancel the blocks since I have the quartzite blocks.
How come the orders don't take into account what you already have?
Channels are dug already, onto farming dig!
I make my adjustments to the feeders (which is why we made wheelbarrows ahead of time, willow is the lightest wood I have available)
I also cancel all the smelters and forge since I am going right for lava and designate the channels & tunnel to volcano
We get rid of all surface piles except food and all except carpenter and mason are dismantled. As soon as orders are finished they will go. Orders for farm won't get placed until then. I want all future work orders being done inside

*Possible bug* Are my aliases out of date? Stoneworker feeder set to ALL.
*Suggestion* Sandbags in metal QSP closer to glassmaker. I also enable the potash since it's only excluded bar, just have to remember to add a take from for the fertilizer pile near farm.
*To investigate* Putting lye and milk of lime into piles with a single barrel. *Bug* Glad I checked this pile was set to all food. A bunch of piles are wrong. Will undo and reapply to make sure I didnt maybe use the wrong file (habit).
I most certainly ran the right one, about half of the piles got jacked. Might be from WIP industry build?
I downloaded the file again, something is very messed up even though it all looks correct. I'm too tired to troubleshoot it tonight.
Ahhhh! Yup, I need bronze weapons alias.

And I had a crash again, on 3/28. I used the buildplanner again for some magma smelters (because my quartzite blocks somehow disappeared even though I have more than enough of them for ALL the workshops and trackstops). FUUUUUCKKKKK!!! I haven't saved since 1/20. An ironman save system for a buggy alpha is just assinine! Calling it a night.

153
Utilities and 3rd Party Applications / Re: DFHack: quickfort | buildingplan | blueprint | blueprints/library
« on: January 24, 2021, 08:49:45 pm »
Quote from: myk on January 24, 2021, 08:46:28 pm
awesome -- I'm in the middle of rejiggering the surface level, but it should still work. surface3 is commented out at the moment, but the blueprints that were in there have been moved to surface2, so it should be fine. I haven't tested our changes yet, so keep an eye out for blueprint bugs.

Ok cool. That makes sense, I wind up doing surface 2&3 together usually anyway. Although I bump the priority up for the industry dig. Ok, working off 8:42PM version.

Need to make a different checklist for the xls, but no biggy.

Zones still not active, although I am assuming I need to delete them and make them by hand until DFHack is fixed and distributed.

154
Utilities and 3rd Party Applications / Re: DFHack: quickfort | buildingplan | blueprint | blueprints/library
« on: January 24, 2021, 08:28:56 pm »
Oh, cool, running off the spreadsheets directly makes life a lot easier.

I think that covers everything. I'm ready to make a fresh play-through so we will see.
I did verify my orders will make lye and soap, but I didn't verify that they will stop at the desired thresholds(which is equally important). I also didn't try the single barrel pile, I had let my old game run a season when trying to determine the cause of the crashes, but there's a good bit of lye in the barrel already (I was probably tinkering with work orders still back then) and a ton of soap.

I figured it out with the coffins, depending what material you make them with, you get different burial items. Also interesting note on them, "corpses inside them aren't protected from reanimation", which could lead to some Fun! in the bedroom...

AHhhhhhh! Yer killin me Smalls! I'm going to stop with the 8:42PM Surface file since I see you are still tweaking.

155
Utilities and 3rd Party Applications / Re: DFHack: quickfort | buildingplan | blueprint | blueprints/library
« on: January 24, 2021, 06:16:30 pm »
Quote from: myk on January 24, 2021, 05:19:03 pm
Quote from: ldog on January 24, 2021, 01:39:44 pm
Oh! You did go with my ramp :D
Yeah -- I haven't tested all these changes yet, but unless it causes unforeseen problems, I'm totally open to keeping it.

I'm ready to give the new plans a whirl, but I can't for the life of me figure out how to make the xlsx2csv script work though (yes, I downloaded it and I have Python installed) so having to combine sheets by hand.

Historicly for me, the central ramp works as well as stairs, although the single wide I am concerned about collisions but there honestly isn't much you can do about it, even wide hallways are no guarantee dorfs won't run into each other. The 3 wide was mainly for carvans, I think they still ran into each other just as often, but it would require a 7 wide shaft. I think we could make the ramps 2 wide without otherwise adjusting your layouts, I might give that a shot too. 2x2 wide ramps should be able to handle a lot of traffic.
Quote from: myk on January 24, 2021, 05:19:03 pm
Quote

Also leather armor/shields? Meh! I never use leather armor. Since marksdorfs like to melee more than they should, I give them the same armor, also steel xbows. It also protects them from elite goblin archers sniping them through fortifications (It has happened to me more than I like). I do make leather gloves, hoods, shoes for civilian wear.
I'd like to keep those in to cover players who use the "defaults". The orders only keep one in stock at a time so it's not too much waste for those who don't use them.

Oh good point! I sometimes forget about other playstyles, which becomes a pain when I want to do something different myself. Yes, flexibility is good!

Aack! Speaking of the ramps, found an error. My fault. Starting from 3rd level for the odd levels needs to be(actually it could be done on the first with no harm)
Code: [Select]
#>
h d
` ` `
d h `
#>

So the pattern is:
Code: [Select]
#> # #
h d
`
d h
#> # #
d
h ` h
d
#> # #

There is also no reason the central column couldn't be dug out if desired, as long as those corner tiles are left solid to support the ramps we're good.

Farming plan missing a "Z" on farm workshop center.

156
Utilities and 3rd Party Applications / Re: DFHack: quickfort | buildingplan | blueprint | blueprints/library
« on: January 24, 2021, 01:39:44 pm »
Oh! You did go with my ramp :D
Add another channel/floor over farmers workshop (the rotten cheese incident).
I like the smaller refuse pile, although still say corpses need wheelbarrows. I can make it work in that space though, so I can deal if you are deadset against it.

I'm also rethinking the order; it is much faster to dig in soil so getting farming layer done before industry allows to get buttoned up faster (and I like getting my food & booze underground asap) if a smaller subset of flooring is done for surface.
Since I'm going to gen a fresh world to celebrate my new found freedom from crashes I'll give it a shot if I can figure out how to get this xml converter to work.

Some more work order stuff:
Dwarven peanut butter (rock nut paste & oil, soap). I think I use the tallow for cooking instead of making soap, although I guess one could do both.

mill seeds/nuts to paste
at least 30 unrotten PRESS_LIQUID_MAT-producing seeds
at most 10 non-pressed PRESS_LIQUID_MAT-producing

press liquid from paste
at least 1 non-pressed PRESS_LIQUID_MAT-producing glob
at least 1 liquid container
at most 10 SOAP_MAT-producing liquid

make soap from oil
at least 1 lye-containing item
at least 1 SOAP_MAT-producing liquid
at most 25 soap bars

Make cheese
at least 1 unrotten milk item

Brew drink from plant could use a check for empty food containers to reduce cancellation spam.
Could also use a brew drinks from fruit.

Add at most 0 bit & lignite to make charcoal order. (wood is either common or a precious commodity depending on embark, plus cutting/gathering/processing all that wood is a big time sink)
Auto-smelt for the other ores.

I'm guessing the auto-tailor works? I haven't gotten that far, but will try it without my usual clothing orders. Also leather armor/shields? Meh! I never use leather armor. Since marksdorfs like to melee more than they should, I give them the same armor, also steel xbows. It also protects them from elite goblin archers sniping them through fortifications (It has happened to me more than I like). I do make leather gloves, hoods, shoes for civilian wear. Also would benefit from "type leather" added to stock check, unless the idea is they are only made if there is a lack of metal armor.

Oh, as far as the job cancellations, I did come across a note somewhere about job cancellations being caused by item scatter (from deconstructing workshops), highly likely I had some of that going on since I start removing the surface workstations before industry2 is done.

Can confirm my lye-making order works correctly.

157
Utilities and 3rd Party Applications / Re: DFHack: quickfort | buildingplan | blueprint | blueprints/library
« on: January 24, 2021, 12:29:12 pm »
Quote from: myk on January 24, 2021, 11:16:49 am
Quote from: ldog on January 24, 2021, 03:02:50 am
Well I had my discussion with the liason and am actually conducting a trade, no crash.
So I guess it was the zones. I'm glad I popped in this thread, the zones were the last thing I thought it might be.
I'm wondering now if I delete them from some of the other saves if they will stabilize.
I just verified this with the save you posted. Removing all zones before the merchants unload avoids the crash.

pull request with the fix: https://github.com/DFHack/dfhack/pull/1759
Thank you very much for finding this and helping me debug it!

Awesome! Glad I could help.
Glad I can play now too :D

158
Utilities and 3rd Party Applications / Re: DFHack: quickfort | buildingplan | blueprint | blueprints/library
« on: January 24, 2021, 03:02:50 am »
Well I had my discussion with the liason and am actually conducting a trade, no crash.
So I guess it was the zones. I'm glad I popped in this thread, the zones were the last thing I thought it might be.
I'm wondering now if I delete them from some of the other saves if they will stabilize.

Quote from: myk on January 24, 2021, 02:04:32 am
Quote from: ldog on January 24, 2021, 01:42:49 am
Quote from: myk on January 24, 2021, 12:51:47 am
so, upper meltables: steel and bronze, lower meltables: all metals other than steel and bronze?
That's what I went with. Iron is still better than bronze but I don't think I've ever not had flux and had iron, but I have had flux and no iron. If I didn't have iron on the map I would be recycling it from goblinite in all liklihood.
that sounds like the upper meltables should be steel, iron, and bronze then, no?

Quote
I wish I could isolate it down to something repeatable. Other than the caravan crashes nothing is reproduceable. https://dffd.bay12games.com/file.php?id=15384 is a save that will crash reliably shortly after unpause. It's been verified on Linux as well.
Thanks for that save. It's crashing due to stack overflow in the DF binary -- infinite recursion. I'm getting more suspicious of the "I'm my own grandparent" behavior that DFHack has with created zones. (see the bug for more details)

Quote
Just took a peak at the latest, I think I'd push the cells up even further (even with the tavern rooms) and then maybe put a barracks for the city guard in between the cells and the stairs.
I had intended the barracks to be built in the empty room across from the trade depot on the surface. Do we need another one down on the services level?

I'm torn on the iron, probably the lower. The only time I wouldn't have coal/flux/iron on my embark are if I wanted to make myself suffer. I would go so far to say as long as there is steel, candy and sand I will deal with anything else the game can throw at me (although I'm not a fan of syndrome rains and reanimation)

Oh, I build 1 barracks per squad usually, and I tend to have 2 infantry and 1 marksdorfs, like I said I don't usually use the city guard, but I'd make them another marksdorf squad for a total of 4.
The surface location is good, I'd put an inf squad there, another at my cavern entrance. I pretty much don't want anything coming into the fort without going past an inf squad. Sometimes I have extra barracks as well. I might go a bit overboard, but I'd probably do a duty rotation with this fort to prevent cave adaptation on them.

159
Utilities and 3rd Party Applications / Re: DFHack: quickfort | buildingplan | blueprint | blueprints/library
« on: January 24, 2021, 01:42:49 am »
Quote from: myk on January 24, 2021, 12:51:47 am
Quote from: ldog on January 23, 2021, 08:46:32 pm
Oh, I looked on your google Myk, just make the corridors to hospital and tavern 2 blocks longer each, magma will fit in 11 blocks wide.
Voila!
fair enough. done. This let me reorganize the jail cells into a nicer pattern as well.

Quote
If you leave the stairs out of level plans, it makes it much easier for me to update mine if I don't have to rip them out of every level ;)
will do.
Awesome! Thanks!

Quote from: myk on January 24, 2021, 12:51:47 am
so, upper meltables: steel and bronze, lower meltables: all metals other than steel and bronze?
That's what I went with. Iron is still better than bronze but I don't think I've ever not had flux and had iron, but I have had flux and no iron. If I didn't have iron on the map I would be recycling it from goblinite in all liklihood.

Quote from: myk on January 24, 2021, 12:51:47 am
This crashiness worries me. I've been through dreamfort dozens of times, and the only times I've gotten DF to crash are when I've recompiled DFHack and reinstalled it while the game is running. If this is a problem with quickfort (or with the DFHack library functions it calls), it's going to be hard to track it down. I'll try to reproduce it while playtesting the new dreamfort changes.
Yeah, it's been a nightmare. I have generated at least 7 worlds with 47.04 now and all have suffered the same fate. I haven't crashed again since reload with this one, mid-June, got first migrant wave, still going strong. I have plant gathering set on the surface zones, although hating it...the miners would rather pick fruit than mine even. I still suspect the plant gathering.
Quote from: myk on January 24, 2021, 12:51:47 am
Quote
I was in the middle of using planning mode to build the ashery (because some workpile decided to snatch my barrel).
barrel snatching stockpiles are the *worst*. I try to build industry before farming for that reason.
I've complained about that in the past. I see it still isn't fixed (I don't give a fuck what Mr "I don't play fortressmode" Toady says, I consider it an undesirable feature). Once again something from the old Quickfort; the small booze piles on every level. Worked great except each tied up an extra barrel. Somehow between the food and the booze pile on the surface 1 of them decided they needed an extra barrel. I think I made a really good case about why this was a worse issue than whatever it potentially was useful for but was shot down, and I let it go.

Quote from: myk on January 24, 2021, 12:51:47 am
on another note, buildingplan is the other potential source of crashes. I essentially rewrote the entire plugin for this release so it could support all the building types. It is *possible* that I have a bug somewhere in there. If only I could reproduce the crash, then I could run df in a debugger and get the stack trace.

Quote
Industry2 gets a lot of job cancellations in general (lost or missing). I was trying to pre-empt by cancelling and designating normal builds. Actually I am getting the same lost/missing BS with regular jobs just as much. This feels like the worst version of DF ever.
even with buildingplan enabled, you're still getting job cancellations? that's what buildingplan is supposed to prevent..

just to clarify, quickfort uses buildingplan to build buildings regardless of whether "planning mode" is enabled for that building type. As long as the buildingplan plugin itself is enabled, quickfort will use it.

I wish I could isolate it down to something repeatable. Other than the caravan crashes nothing is reproduceable. https://dffd.bay12games.com/file.php?id=15384 is a save that will crash reliably shortly after unpause. It's been verified on Linux as well.

Yes, the industry level in particular for some reason. The farming level not so bad. I can't get much further to date.
I'm assuming buildingplan is enabled.

Just took a peak at the latest, I think I'd push the cells up even further (even with the tavern rooms) and then maybe put a barracks for the city guard in between the cells and the stairs.

LMAO! So with all the vents, where do I get miasma? From a piece of rotten cheese in the farmers workshop. Too funny.

160
Utilities and 3rd Party Applications / Re: DFHack: quickfort | buildingplan | blueprint | blueprints/library
« on: January 23, 2021, 08:46:32 pm »
Quote from: A_Curious_Cat on January 23, 2021, 08:31:35 pm
Quote from: myk on January 23, 2021, 07:22:50 pm
Bah. after removing the baths on the services level, there is no longer enough room for magma, so I swapped the clothier and metalworker sections back to their original locations. I'll add a note to the walkthrough to suggest leaving an empty level underneath industry for magma purposes.

What about the necessary holes that need to be channeled for the magma workshops?

That's what Myk was talking about. I'm not sure you can build a normal shop over them so it's something to be done by hand. Like my current embark is on a volcano so I can get right to them, but if I had to bring it up from the magma sea then I would be running regular shops for some time in all liklihood. (verified, you can't place non-magma shops over a hole)

Oh, I looked on your google Myk, just make the corridors to hospital and tavern 2 blocks longer each, magma will fit in 11 blocks wide.
Voila!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

If you leave the stairs out of level plans, it makes it much easier for me to update mine if I don't have to rip them out of every level ;)
Even if you don't adopt the ramps, I would just make the stairguide 3x3 and leave it at that. If you're thinking about early time spent mining exploratory stairs, then this is as good a time as any to introduce noobs to our good friend "Marker Only"

Ordinarily I would just as soon spread across more Z-levels but I tend to play with custom worlds designed by Vjek and the 1 big flaw (for me) is they tend to be shallow. I've been foregoing guilds level and squeezing them into services levels too.

Piles working fine with new alias. More thought about them, I'd combine steel and bronze instead of iron, since if I can't make steel (perish the thought!) then I'm probably making my gear from bronze, not iron.

So we made it almost until the end of the first season and then we crashed. I was in the middle of using planning mode to build the ashery (because some workpile decided to snatch my barrel). Industry2 gets a lot of job cancellations in general (lost or missing). I was trying to pre-empt by cancelling and designating normal builds. Actually I am getting the same lost/missing BS with regular jobs just as much. This feels like the worst version of DF ever.

Had to repeat most of the month of March, but didn't crash again (also didn't play with planning mode again) and we made it to Summer. I went and cancelled any leftover gather plant designations before the end of the season.

By the by, doing this with mason 5, carpenter 5, mechanic 5, stonecrafter 5, weaponsmith5/grower3, miner5x2. Only brought an axe, had to make bronze picks but equipped all 6 non-woodchopper. The non-miners made level 2-3 and the miners made 7. So have managed to dig out surface 3, industry1, about half of farming1. Tunnel dug, magma should arrive by the time they get the smelters built.

Still not really sure if it's worth bringing trained miners or not, but definitely not if you are making picks. I think it takes too long getting temp forge setup and picks made and it costs too much time, on a dangerous embark I'd have been screwed. I will probably still bring mats for bronze but also bring 2 picks next time.

161
Utilities and 3rd Party Applications / Re: DFHack: quickfort | buildingplan | blueprint | blueprints/library
« on: January 23, 2021, 08:43:26 pm »
Quote from: myk on January 23, 2021, 07:22:50 pm
Bah. after removing the baths on the services level, there is no longer enough room for magma, so I swapped the clothier and metalworker sections back to their original locations. I'll add a note to the walkthrough to suggest leaving an empty level underneath industry for magma purposes.

Shouldn't take too much room, although I don't know how much you've condensed the level. Just short tunnels from smelter to smelter, joining at the forge (for volcano embark). If I was carting it up then of course just 1x1 in the right places.
Here is how I redid industry2, but granted that was with original services underneath.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Have made it to early March (whatevs) without crashing, so cautiously optimistic. Besides the zones I also did tree & gather designations by hand. Curious to see next season if the plant gathering bug happens again too.

So do you really make use of the huge refuse pile? Being as you have the quantum. I've always gotten by with 2 small feeders (1 light, 1 hvy) and usually an incinerator but sometimes a quantum. Would help early security having less open roof. I'm torn about the vents in general. On the 1 hand I seldom have miasma issues, on the other hand, when I do, I wish I had something like this.

162
Utilities and 3rd Party Applications / Re: DFHack: quickfort | buildingplan | blueprint | blueprints/library
« on: January 23, 2021, 06:56:41 pm »
Quote from: myk on January 23, 2021, 06:50:44 pm
Quote from: ldog on January 23, 2021, 05:19:45 pm
You mean without having quickfort place the zones or without them altogether? I can modify the plans easy enough. Already been slowly customizing. If you mean play without zones altogether I don't really see how. I went and commented them out, along with the cut trees and gather plants (which I heavily suspect at the moment)
Right - without having quickfort place the zones. Try a game manually placing them instead, and see if that stops the crashes. What's your operating system?

btw, to fix the bad config for the iron/steel meltables, you can add this to your aliases.txt file:
Code: [Select]
ironweapons:   {metalweapons}{forbidmetalweapons}{permitironweapons}
copperweapons: {metalweapons}{forbidmetalweapons}{permitcopperweapons}
steelweapons:  {metalweapons}{forbidmetalweapons}{permitsteelweapons}

Just set the files up and I had a backup of the embark so loaded that up. *Fingers crossed*
Win10 Pro.

Thanks! I hadn't gotten around to playing with the aliases, I know you did a tremendous amount of work on them though.

163
Utilities and 3rd Party Applications / Re: DFHack: quickfort | buildingplan | blueprint | blueprints/library
« on: January 23, 2021, 05:19:45 pm »
Quote from: myk on January 23, 2021, 03:54:16 pm
I like the idea. Currently, each level has stairs included, but I won't be able to do that with ramps since now each level can have either one of two possible ramp placements. I can change the stair_guide to run the ramp down 10 levels or so, and make that blueprint unhidden so it can be manually run repeatedly to extend the ramps down further as needed. Probably also want to rename it from 'stair_guide' to 'central_ramp'. Overall, this increases complexity for people who are trying to use dreamfort, but results in a better/safer fortress and exemplifies best practices. I'm very wary about making the blueprints any more difficult to apply, but in this case it's probably a good trade-off.
Yeah, it is easy to FUBAR an embark with bad ramp placement. Since I've been doing ramps & quickfort a long time, what I generally do is designate my central ramp for the entire map first thing. Removing stairwells from level blueprints is of course critical to this. If I'm using a larger (I'm a fan of 3 wide so depot can go anywhere I want it) ramp then I will set it to mark only at a reasonable depth, but otherwise I find it useful to get a general idea of the map by digging until you hit an impasse, especially if not using reveal & prospect. I'm a fan of underground pasture too, so getting cavern breached for fungus ASAP is usually important. LOL, I'm a fan of underground in general, I usually even let everyone go cave-adapted. The killzone PeridexisErrant designed (https://df-walkthrough.readthedocs.io/en/latest/chapters/chap09-end.html#chapter09) has been pretty effective for my playstyle. I do like the idea of having a large surface fort for future-proofing though. It just needs to be able to be secured faster.
Quote from: myk on January 23, 2021, 03:54:16 pm
I'd had bad experiences with wheelbarrows in the past, but you're right that they can help here. I'll need to design a new feature for setting the wheelbarrow count for specific stockpiles, though, since the interface for setting wheelbarrows depends on whether you have the stockpiles plugin enabled (so I can't just do it in a #query blueprint). I currently just have a global setting for how many wheelbarrows to set by default for all quickfort stone stockpiles, but that's not flexible enough.
The big thing with wheelbarrows is getting the stockpile settings right, but I never go without them. I've also never found the need to go past 3 per pile, so my designs are vanilla safe. I use "heavy feeders" in a 2x3 for stone and some (large & heavy) furniture. Coupled with 12 tile light receivers. Granted I also tend to be overly granular (AR?) with my stockpiles & workshop links. What I wound up doing with the Dreamfort was making the relevant feeders heavy and then I fit a 12 tile light around them. Also cut a 2x3 chunk out of large trash pile for corpses. Nothing worse than trying to haul some dead megabeast corpse up from the caverns without a wheelbarrow. Oh, you probably want to add sandbags to your metal feeder (furniture, forbid all types but sandbags at bottom, leave the rest).

Quote from: myk on January 23, 2021, 03:54:16 pm
we build lavish jail cells to keep criminals happy of course : )  It was my attempt to follow [some of the] advice on the wiki. I'm open to suggestions, though.

I could totally add walls. At one point I had a library planned out behind the jail cells and I was starved for space, but now that libraries have moved to the (relatively new) guildhall level, there's no reason why we can't make the jail cells more "celly".
Having no experience with jails I'm clueless.
Quote from: myk on January 23, 2021, 03:54:16 pm
I wanted to make them equally usable for players who fill their wells with a bucket brigade and those who fill them by routing flowing water. How do you think they could be improved?

Sigh...the baths have gone through so many design changes and caused so much trouble.. I should just take them out. You're right about the contaminants. There used to be a dwarven shower set up over the baths that would clean the contaminants, but it was just too complex to set up and keep running. It involved a ring mist generator powered by a dwarven water reactor and linked by controllable gears. It was awesome, but it added 3 more blueprint application steps to the services level. Moreover, the whole thing would randomly just stop working and need to be reset. When I removed the mist generator components, I forgot that the whole reason it was there was to clean contaminants.

On the plus side, removing the baths also gets rid of the most difficult manual step in all of dreamfort -- filling them up with water to exactly 3/7 depth.

Before the aquifer change, I've had said no to filling by hand but the light aquifers being next to useless combined with them being too large it might be necessary. I know most players are frightened by aquifers but I used to always make sure I had a partial if no river/brook (and I took to not having river/brook). I'm back to running water on my embark until I figure out my way forward. I generally only ever do a single well somewhere near the hospital with a (probably overlarge) cistern. Dorfs will grab a bucket & soap and bathe at the well. They also don't leave contaminant trails that way.

I was a big fan of the mist generator since Buketgeshud, and designed an improved version based off that. It's a late game thing though, and requires drains on the lowest level, I never pump the water back through, have just had too many issues with contaminants in old versions. My plumbing systems tend towards the elaborate. I generally will work in several floodgates and grates connected to levers with multiple taps. Besides the well I'll have a cistern for obsidian generator, possibly as many as 8 seperate pipes for mist gens, and of course a water reactor for the magma pump stack.

Quote from: myk on January 23, 2021, 03:54:16 pm
I integrated the tombs into the apartment levels, since dorfs like looking at urns so much.

Unfortunately haven't gotten the bedrooms levels built since I can't get past first caravan so I didn't know about the urns (but I have had dead visitors to bury). I didn't even know urns were a thing, usually build coffins. Is cremation a thing now?
Quote from: myk on January 23, 2021, 03:54:16 pm
Sorry, I should add documentation for this. DF has a bug that prevents 'lye-containing items' from being used as a condition. You can *add* the condition, but it disappears when you save and reload, breaking the manager order that it was attached to. In the dreamfort automation orders, I have it set up so that soap making triggers lye making so lye exists for the *next* bar of soap, but you have to "prime the system" by manually making a few buckets of lye first.

I think the bugs with lye have been fixed for a while now (unless there are new ones). My old fort has a single tile pile for lye, in a barrel even (I remember that was an issue at one time; they put the buckets of lye in the barrel instead of dumping the lye into it). My order condition is "lye" not "lye containing" (which is used making soap), you get it from "p"  I believe it works properly, or at least used to. Understanding your reasoning though, your system is sound as well. Speaking of wood and work orders, that huge charcoal outlay is nuts, I wouldn't do that unless I had no coal. 20 makes sense, 200 ties up too many resources (both wood & labor) early on.

Quote from: myk on January 23, 2021, 03:54:16 pm
The lower meltables stockpile is a superset of the upper, iron/steel-specific one. There are just two meltable stockpiles since dorfs prioritize melting the closest items, so this is how I have them prioritize melting iron and steel items. I didn't see any reason to exclude iron and steel from the lower stockpile -- if you have a lot of garbage iron and steel, you probably want to melt it all first anyway.

I thought about that, the thing is automelt goes through stages. Keep everything, melt everything not steel, melt non-masterwork steel (and possibly I might filter the steel in ascending quality depending how things are playing out). So it'd be easy to toggle on first pile, then second pile. The lower pile will wind up being strictly Goblinite fairly early anyway.

Quote from: myk on January 23, 2021, 03:54:16 pm
ugh, could you possibly try a run without zones? I could prepare a version of dreamfort that skips them.

You mean without having quickfort place the zones or without them altogether? I can modify the plans easy enough. Already been slowly customizing. If you mean play without zones altogether I don't really see how. I went and commented them out, along with the cut trees and gather plants (which I heavily suspect at the moment)


164
Utilities and 3rd Party Applications / Re: DFHack: quickfort | buildingplan | blueprint | blueprints/library
« on: January 23, 2021, 02:47:22 pm »
Quote from: lethosor on January 23, 2021, 01:46:19 pm
Quote from: ldog on January 23, 2021, 01:16:21 am
I don't think my crashes are related to Quickfort, it seems pretty stable. Lethosor has been looking into it.
There is still a possibility that quickfort (or DFHack) is corrupting something that causes crashes later, but doesn't crash immediately when you use it. If you're seeing frequent crashes across different saves, and have been using quickfort in all of them, then I would recommend trying similar things in different saves without using quickfort to see if you also get crashes.

Now that you mention it, the save that never crashes is a mature fort so I haven't run any quickfort commands in it with the new version.
My newly generated save has started crashing, although it's been very infrequent, we'll see when the caravan comes.

Plant gathering seems buggy (I've never been a big fan of it, especially for surface plants) - after a point anyone assigned to it will get stuck, and even unassigning them I still have to wait for a few stragglers always it seems. It seems to happen towards end/change of season when there are leftover designated plants that have died. All of these were done from Dreamfort surface1, since I have been testing it out in all my new games.

And we made it to caravan unloading again and instacrash, every reload now. I'm fucking done!

165
Utilities and 3rd Party Applications / Re: DFHack: quickfort | buildingplan | blueprint | blueprints/library
« on: January 23, 2021, 01:16:21 am »
Quote from: myk on January 23, 2021, 12:00:04 am
I couldn't reproduce the crash, though I gave myself a good forehead smack when I saw the missing active flag. I'll get that fixed up then go back to investigating the crash.

I don't think my crashes are related to Quickfort, it seems pretty stable. Lethosor has been looking into it.

So I swapped the forges with the textiles, I double-checked the settings for the iron/steel weapon meltables and they are correct but same results. Also shouldn't the regular meltables exclude iron & steel or was it mutually exclusive to set?

I just realized you don't have furniture going anywhere either. Is this intentional?

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