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Topics - PatrikLundell

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121
DF Gameplay Questions / Strange embark
« on: December 04, 2015, 06:07:44 am »
[0.42.01] I've embarked in what I thought was a single biome savage, completely flat, deadlands. However, my fortress was wiped out by undead ravens late spring. Save scumming...
Later, towards the end of the first winter, I built a watch post above the trade entrance tunnel (only entrance so far), with the recessed courtyard and original entrance floored over. Since I started building one level above the ground, I've gotten reports of rain of dwarven blood. The strange thing here is that I've gotten blood in the building (before the roof was put up) and on top of the building, but nothing on the ground anywhere, including the floor covering my courtyard?!

I know I have evil areas nearby, so the undead could possibly have migrated, but not the weather, presumably.

Do I have some kind of vertical biome separation shear? I recall encountering an oddity way back with 0.40.09(?) where I could farm properly at ground level, but not a couple of z levels directly above (on a muddied floor) close to the boundary to a mountain biome.

Edit: Looking in the air I can find invisible pools of dwarven blood 1, 2, and 3 levels above the ground. (Invisible = nothing seen graphically, but randomly moving the cursor about in the 'l'ook mode reveals them). The don't seem to fall either...

122
I've got a fight raging in the sea since half a year or so. Both combatants are using fire based attacks, which are about as effective as you could expect, given the location. I want them gone, both to get rid of the fight reports and to remove future threats.
I'm thinking about engineering a cave-in of the area above them in the hope they'll get crushed, but since cave-ins over the magma sea are rather odd, I'm not sure it will work. I've got a significant dorfpower shortage, so I'd rather not embark on the task only to find the cave-in just disintegrates as it hits the magma without eliminating the trouble makers.

Does anyone know if it will work?

123
Treesplosions are annoying as they can completely junglify an embark that was sparsely forested initially. Not only does an excessive tree take a toll on the FPS, they can also block off parts of the embark completely (especially in the caverns).

My suggestion is to implement an algorithm that causes sapling maturation to slow and stop as the tree density increases. I'd try something along these lines:
- When a sapling is due to mature, make a random determination of whether it is a candidate or if it succumbed to background circumstances (being eaten, parasites, ...). I believe this is basically how it works today, but instead of becoming a tree on a successful roll, the sapling would move to the next stage. The maturation threshold should probably be lowered to compensate for losses in the following stage, though.
- Each biome would have its own set of parameters that controlled maximum tree density.
- I'd try to use two factors to control the process: Distance and Density_Acceptance. The Distance would determine how far away other trees would influence the maturation of a sapling, while Density_Acceptance would be an adjustment factor that determines how many trees' worth of neighbors a sapling can tolerate to have any chance to mature (or, rather, when the chance is reduced to zero).
- I'd have a distance drop-off relation to give a higher weight to an adjacent tree than to one further away. You could e.g. give a weight of 1/distance to each tree within the cutoff Distance.
- You could either use an actual distance to a neighbor tree, or just use the larger of the X or Y distance.
- You would have an overall maximum distance of e.g. 20 tiles.
- Each tree within the maximum distance would add a value of 1/distance/Density_Acceptance of the biome that tree resides in, with 0 if that biome's Distance is shorter than the actual distance (this should result in a gradual density gradient in biome border regions).
- If a tile is a non tree supporting tile (air, rock, water, treeless desert, etc) I'd add a value of 1/320/distance (with a 20 tile max X/Y distance that should mean a single tile surrounded by non tree supporting tiles would have a 50% chance of maturing, if I've calculated it correctly). This is intended to provide some negative pressure from non tree supporting areas.
- The sum of all the results out to the maximum distance should then sum up to a chance of (1.0 - Sum) of maturing, which can be negative, i.e. no chance at all.
- I would probably only check the same Z level as that of the sapling, but it would be possible to check upwards/downwards if desired, to cater for trees below or a canopy above, with the associated complications of a potential floor in between. My guess is that taking Z levels into account isn't worth the effort.

A jungle might have a short Distance of e.g. 3, while a sparsely wooded desert might use the maximum Distance. Similarly, a jungle should have a higher tolerance for competition than less densely forested biomes.

I think sapling maturation happens infrequently enough that the extra CPU used to calculate maturation is more than offset by the savings resulting from not having to calculate the growth of as many trees.

Edit: Below I'm trying to summarize what's known/believed about the current tree behavior, including insights gained after the discussion below occurred.
- A bug correction report indicates adventure mode trees (and a lot of other things) are generated from tile related seeds as the tile is prepared for display.
- There is no indication there is currently any difference in the terminal tree density influenced by the biome. All biomes supporting trees will eventually end up equally dense, apart from inherent differences in canopy suppression (more below) and density of vegetation supporting ground tiles (lots of stones and surface clay can reduce the number of tiles available for vegetation).
- The initial tree density of a fortress biome is probably (my guess) generated using exactly the same algorithm as is used for adventure mode, and that one does, obviously, generate a different tree density appropriate for the biome (as per Toady's interpretation), but has no influence whatsoever for the further tree development.
- Saplings appear to spring up randomly in eligible tiles in competition with other vegetation.
- I haven't heard of any investigation that indicates any pruning of sapling type based on an over abundance of that type of the tree already on the map, although there have been speculations about such a mechanism, I find it unlikely to be present.
- I've speculated above and below that saplings have a random risk of dying rather than maturing. As far as I've seen, that is not the case. Instead, saplings die only because of canopy suppression, physical abuse (trampling), and physical obstructions blocking maturation (ceiling lower than two tiles. Note that bridges do not count as ceilings: trees below will mature and sprout though the bridges [0.40.24, unlikely to have changed]).
- It's currently believed saplings below the canopy of another tree will die, thus providing a small uneven zone around the tree where competition is kept at bay. My experiments indicate this suppression acts ONLY on the level directly above the ground, i.e. the canopy acts identically to a floor above. I've got 3 cases where saplings have matured with a canopy above two tiles above the ground. However, any canopy part, including twigs, seem to suppress sapling maturation if at the appropriate elevation.
- Palm trees and the like have very small canopies, young trees have small, usually lopsided, canopies, and cavern trees are just terrible, with many types just sprouting a pole that may, after many years, grow into a hat, leaving ample time for fences to form. I haven't been able to look too closely at palm trees as I haven't embarked in such biomes much, but there is a risk their canopies actually appear only 2 levels above the ground if they look like real world counterparts, in which case they would provide no suppression at all.

Edit 2:
- After observing a multi biome embark, I've seen the tree maturation rate being considerably higher in the forest biomes than in other biomes. This observation does not contradict the observations above, as it means an undisturbed forest will reach the end density faster than sparser biomes, but the end density will still be the same.

124
The findings below are probably already known, but I haven't found most of them.

I've found that you sometimes can dig Up/Down or Up staircases in SMR or Slade from above provided the area hasn't been revealed and you build (not dig) an Up/Down staircase above to give the miner somewhere to stand. Building a Down staircase above revealed the tile below in all my attempts, but a built Up/Down staircase did not in any case (I tried to build both on a magma flow directly as well as a magma flow converted into sand by building a floor and removing it before building the stair). However, digging the Up or Up/Down staircase is a hit-and-miss proposition that sometimes results in a staircase and sometimes a revealed tile and an "inappropriate dig square" message. I haven't discovered any logic as to when the digging will result in a staircase and when it just results in a revealed tile.
Successfully digging an Up/Down staircase reveals the tile below the staircase and thus blocks further digging, as does conversion of an Up staircase into an Up/Down one.

I've been able to use the staircase method to dig down into rock covered SMR in one instance (the first one failed with a revealed tile an an abortion message), so SMR digging is not tied to the (former) existence of a magma flow on top.

Furthermore, every time I've been able to dig out a Slade tile with either an Up or an Up/Down staircase a Slade boulder has been produced, so Slade mining seems to operate similarly to candy mining (except digging a staircase in candy results in a staircase made out of candy and no boulder, while Slade results in a Slade boulder and a Gabbro staircase).

As far as I know, there is no way to remove a dug Up staircase unless there is a place to stand beside it, so you can't remove a dug staircase to replace it with a built one to repeat the digging downwards. However, with the SMR you should be able to first use the trick to smash a magma flow down one level and then apply the built staircase in the hole followed by a dug one to make a two tile deep hole without any miner sacrifice (but that also destroys the magma flow, so you can't continue downwards using the magma flow method).

The above is basically consistent with the method of digging through the SMR (and Slade) from below using the digging of a staircase, with the difference that that method never fails, as far as I know.

Does anyone know what causes some digging to result in a staircase and some to just reveal the tile?

125
DF Gameplay Questions / No thoughts generated by clowns? [Spoiler]
« on: October 24, 2015, 08:01:38 am »
I'm cleaning out a large pile of dead clowns, but didn't see the expected hike in stress from experiencing several dozens of bodies, so I checked the thoughts of several of those involved in the hauling, and found - nothing -. They didn't feel anything seeing a naked mole dog die, nor anything seeing various FBs die, but the clowns are completely absent from their thoughts. I know from previous experience that clowns aren't butcherable, and while their hair can be made into thread, that thread cannot be woven, so I've been sending these useless bodies to a separate dump (unfortunately directly on SMR, so I can't place a refuse stockpile for degrading there, to see if some of them might yield useful bones, so degrading will take forever).

Aren't dead clowns supposed to generate bad thoughts?

126
DF Dwarf Mode Discussion / Elven caravans not bringing seeds or berries?
« on: October 16, 2015, 02:45:04 am »
The other day I saw a wiki page somewhere that recommended caravans, elven in particular, as a source of seeds for overground crops. However, my experience is that elves never bring anything that can be used for overground cultivation. They bring fruit (from trees), but I don't think I've ever seen any berries (sun berries would be a natural otherwise). They are bringing (empty) chests, but never bags, even though they bring clothes made out of plant fiber. And since they're not bringing any bags, they're not bringing anything that would go in bags (like seeds, although I don't think they ever bring anything in the barrels they actually do bring with them).
Is this an intended behavior, or is it a (known) bug?

127
My king is a miner, and a mood in the fortress resulted in a "rose gold cap", which should be an item fit for a king. Can you assign specific clothing without drafting them into the military (with the attendant uniform clash in the case of miners/woodcutters/hunters). Also, if the military route was used, I doubt the cap would be worn unless replace clothing was used, which would require the specification of a complete set of clothing/armor and manual replacement on wear, since that cap would probably clash with the civilian clothing cap.

128
I have the problem that invaders frequently enter the map, and then slowly drift back and forth along the map edge without finding any of the entrances to the fortress, despite literally climbing down into one of them, only to exit again. If I'm really lucky they find some animal to chase so they find an entrance they like. If I'm moderately lucky they leave after a season, but usually they drift in the outermost tile row of a standard 3*3 embark for a year before leaving.

I've also had cases where the invaders are indifferent to an entrance, but once they find one they like, the previously ignored one becomes attractive if the approved one is closed off.

Does anyone understand what causes some entrances to be "approved" and other to be ignored, and better still, can describe how to make attractive ones, preferably ones that can draw the morons all the way from the edge of the map into an entrance?

Sending the militia out is not an option. Engaging undead armies outnumbering the under equipped and poorly trained militia 5-10:1 is suicidal.

129
DF Gameplay Questions / Stinky dog?
« on: September 28, 2015, 03:54:40 am »
I've got strange miasma in my food stockpile/animal pen. The miasma moves around and does not seem to be caused by food (I've got no lose meat anyway), but rather by a living dog. The dog is slightly damaged in a leg after a bunch of dogs and dorfs decided to attack a giant adder (which I haven't butchered, since I haven't built a butchery yet). Is the miasma some kind of effect of adder poisoning (if so, it doesn't seem to match the wiki description)?

Edit: There are actually two stinky dogs, both of which have slight leg damages, whereas the other dogs are unharmed, so I guess it's actually a poison effect.

130
My duke has ordered a copper door, but even though the order is sitting in the magma forge, nobody acts on it. I believe door construction is a metal crafting job, and a dorf with metal crafting enabled has been sitting on his hands for half a year. The forge is functional, as I've managed to create a silver war hammer, and I've got enough copper bars (at the same place as the silver bar was). The only active burrows is a civilian alert that didn't stop the weapon smith. I've tried to order the job from the manager instead of from the forge, but that doesn't seem to make any difference.
For good measure, I've enabled metal smithing on my weapon smith and my armor smith as well, although they are currently working.

Any idea of what's wrong? A long time ago I made a steel mine cart in that same forge, and I believe that is a metal smithing job as well.

131
I've got a two level deep lake entrance directly under rock in my cavern. In that water a tree grows, blocking my ability to lower the water by blocking off the top level of the water with magma. I tried to fire a ballista bolt at the tree (standard method for getting rid of trees in water) through a fortification with the water entering through the fortification draining downwards and off the map, but it looked like the bolt disintegrated as soon as it hit the first square with water in it.

Any idea of another method to get rid of the tree (cave-in won't work since the tree is too close to the edge, which is the reason I want to get rid of it in the first place)?
Would channeling away the rock above the tunnel-tube tree cause it to grow up there to allow me blast it away? If so, any idea of how long that would take?

Edit: It turned out the siege operator was somehow just a bad shot. A third attempt eliminated the tree. I didn't think you could hit the walls in a straight tunnel, but rather that the walls would guide the arrow.

132
I've muddied a fair number of stone tiles underground (10 levels down) and have been growing on these underground plots successfully for years, but suddenly in year 7 I noticed that nothing was growing (month 7 day 18, I think), and checked why: All of the plots suddenly display the message "No seeds available for this location", despite me having a fair number of underground seeds of all kinds but Dimple Cups, and even then they should be visible, just displayed in red. I've checked that the environment is still displayed as dark/underground (how the surface would get down there without crawling along my convoluted tunnels would be a mystery anyway). This condition remains as autumn turned into winter.
The biome on the surface above the area is arctic sea, and just as an experiment early on I muddied some rock the level below the surface, exposed it to the sunlight, tiled over the opening, and created a farm plot that, as expected, displayed the message I see now.

Any idea of what's happened (probably as summer turned into autumn) and why (This isn't a soy bean plantation on burnt rain forest, after all)?

Edit: I've created a bunch of new plots in the 3:rd cavern under the same biome, and they can be used normally (but I get a long hauling distance).

133
DF Gameplay Questions / Unkillable ram head wool?
« on: September 15, 2015, 09:57:26 am »
I've embarked in an evil reanimating biome with a non evil corner. My refuse stockpile is in the non evil biome, but apparently some wool was reanimated while being carried to the stockpile (butchery and farmer's workshop are both in the "safe" area), and three pieces of wool was dropped on the ground together with some cartilage. The militia was sent to kill it, and that wasn't much of an issue. The second piece of wool was reanimated and quickly dispatched. The third one, however, turns out to be near indestructible. My 10 hammerlords are dying of dehydration and hunger while passed out exhausted, and my woodcutter who I quickly drafted (after disabling woodcutting) is also at it with an artifact bone battle axe. The wool doesn't seem to cause any damage on its own, but the fortress is brought to a standstill with the wool interrupting everyone who come with water for the fighters.
Given past experience of DF militia, retreat and sealing is not possible, and I'm not too keen on losing a quarter or more of my fortress by sealing off the conflict area with everyone in there (total pop 64).

Any ideas on how to win this 'epic' battle?

134
DF Gameplay Questions / Magma pillar & starting a fire
« on: September 13, 2015, 11:46:36 am »
- I have a magma pool in the third cavern that drains off the edge of the cavern. While in the slow process of sealing the pool I've noted occasional odd pillars in the pool, i.e. magma of e.g. depth 4/7 on top of 7/7 on top of 7/7 where the lowest of these sits within a sea of 6/7 and 5/7 (lower towards the edge). Is this some indication that the pool should have been two levels higher, but draining prevents that level from being reached and the pillars are where new magma is generated to top it up?

- I was trying to start a fire in the 2:nd caverns since it's crawling with undead (none of them flying, I think) by dumping a mine cart of magma from above, but all that achieved was to burn the moss in the two tiles where the magma ended up (which you might guess from the wiki). The magma pool in the question above sparks fires from time to time, however. Is there a good way to reliably start a spreading fire? I don't have access to graphite (which I think is supposed to burn for a long time when set alight).
Edit: Would dumping magma into the undead crundle horde work, hopefully they'd then run around and setting each other and the environment on fire rather than just stand there?

135
DF Gameplay Questions / Gremlin duke demand?
« on: August 21, 2015, 02:08:28 pm »
"Stray duke of Wordfortresses (*Trained*) has a new demand."

My duke is a Gremlin, and I've been unable to assign the ducal quarters to him because he won't show up in the list. I have also been unable to see why he was stressed in the past. Now he just came with a demand, but I have no idea what it is and can't find it out (and I guess I can't fulfill it anyway, since it's probably something to be put in his room...).
Normally for demands you go via the Nobles screen and enter the noble in question, but all I find there is a physical description of him, with no thoughts, preferences, or the like.

Any ideas?

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