Bay 12 Games Forum

I am using the definition of the word used in Game Theory. This strikes me as being quite appropriate to use in a discussion about game systems and AI.

Citation needed.

This is just not true. For example, against a perfect tic-tac-toe AI, it is impossible for you to win. Tic Tac Toe is a Solved Game.

A perfect AI is something that cannot exist. In fact, anything dealing with perfection tends to be in that regard. At least, 'true' perfection.

Prove to me that the "possibility of a human beating an AI is incredibly low". Without a complete solution, there may always be unknowns you just don't know about yet e.g. there may be some unutilised anti-computer tactic that has yet to be discovered, or some flaw in the heuristics used in deciding a move we have yet to find.

These potential strategies that may or may not exist is the reason why saying it is impossible to say it is impossible to beat Chess AI.

I didn't even say impossible there tnt, I said 'incredibly low'. I'll redraw the statement that it is 'impossible' (at least by the strictest definition of the term), however, you can't argue against the fact that currently there... Are no recorded instances of a human beating the currently top-level Chess AI.

Can you even prove to me that humans are currently capable of beating top level Chess AI?
Currently, not taking into account techniques that we don't know about and may or may not actually exist.

You're taking the definition of literal impossibility and applying it to a conversation about practical impossibility.

Strictly speaking, there is almost nothing in the entirety of existence that is literally impossible save things that are mutually exclusive, and even then they're impossible really only due to our human understanding of them.

That is to say, there are things that have a chance of one on ten to the googolplex to the googolplex (1 / (10)^(10^100)^(10^100) that strictly speaking aren't impossible, but the chance of it actually occurring is so low it may as well be zero. Positive Zero, so to speak.

Pausing momentarily, Abel mutters to himself.

"I'm somehow getting the feeling that somewhere, some terrible things are happening...

"Oh well, I'm sure it doesn't matter. To me, at least."

When I mention Abel running into one of the groups randomly, I mean that either that group can decide he shows up, I'll pick at some point, or Soly can roll for it or something.

Avoiding the L/L one though, 'cause it looks like srs bzns.

Quote from: Shadowlord on March 12, 2015, 07:50:20 am

The only thing I'm aware of being solved is tic-tac-toe, and that's no surprise because you can solve that without even needing a computer.

Checkers is solved too. Chess most definitely is not.

Ah, I must have gotten confused with Chess and Checkers. I remembered it being one of the games more complex than tic-tac-toe (which is insanely simple.)

Regardless, I'm pretty sure it has gotten to the point where it's impossible for a human to beat a computer at Chess.

Chess has been 'solved'. It has a low enough number of possible moves and gamestates that a modern supercomputer can take the option that is ALWAYS the best.

"That white-haired guy, is he... Always like that?"

G-14 and staaab the skelarcher.

@Soly: Requesting PS change of Supreme focus to

"Madness' Embrace: Abel has + 2 base damage against enemies he is adjacent to."