Bay 12 Games Forum

Yeah, here's the thing.

You've played well this game, CM. And you're very close to winning, as you're aware. Against some pretty long odds.

But you can't just come out and claim admit you're anti-town 3p.

Is sofa pretty likely scum godfather? Yes. The "ooh investigate me", the unexplained disagreement with Max, general demeanour, etc. Had me until Max caught them.

Double godfathers and framer thief makes my role a bit of a joke, but fair enough, any cop beyond a one-shot is pretty OP. I've come to believe that town can only ever lose by default or by daygame, so as the setup was winnable, it was my fault for paying too much attention to mechanics.

I could vote Sofa here and go home with the consolation that I voted out both members of the mafia and lost to a third party. And I could say I did reasonably well, except for the Oliverz elim, especially given the hand dealt to me by the GM and my fellow town.

But I'm not going to do that, because I think players should play to win, and there's still a chance, however small, that sofa is town. Or who knows, a survivor-godfather or something, that would make more sense with his role.

What would I like to do in this position? There's nothing I'd like, I don't want to be kingmaker in a game where I can't even force a stalemate, it shouldn't come down to this.

I've been in this position before on this forum a long time ago, in a closed game known to have a strange setup, where I was basically kingmaker unless there was a soloscum player. I gambled on it being possible rather than choosing the 100% certain loss... and it wasn't soloscum, so the mafia won.

Town yelled at me in the postgame, on the basis that town should rather a 3p/SK win than mafia, but that's stupid. Town loses either way. I fucked up, sure, but earlier in the game by allowing that position to happen. So did the rest of town. This time, I'd going to take the opportunity to tell anyone sore about this where to shove it pre-emptively.

Even when it's basically a lost cause, I play to my wincon, because that's the point. And I can't win by voting Sofa out with you, because even if you're lying about the 50% of votes, mafia wins in a stalemate. The only situation in which I win is when Sofa is town, and he hasn't given me 100% certainty that he's not. Just, like, 80%.

So sofa gets this, one way or another. Well done them.

Save your gloating until after the game, I guess is the lesson here. I'm not going to vote sofa.

Yeah...

CM: you're needed for any elim today, so I guess I'm asking you: what's the plan?

Eh, whatever.

CrystalizedMire, I'm going to choose to believe you about that.

And I guess my inspect on sofa, though that's probably wrong.

GG mafia if so, proud to get one of you.

Side effects high blood pressure, manaical laughter, and include outing yourself as third party. Consult your doctor to see if evil monologues are right for you.

Sofa: what happened between you and Max? Did you actually track him at night?

Well, that's hammer.

I don't think CM could actually hammer. I guess she could double-vote hammer though... but that wouldn't work out unless she also had a mafiakill.

Though I guess it's a good sign that CM wants Sofa out the game rather than Max? mafia!CM could just coast to victory on Max's death. Wouldn't even need to double-vote.

... the double godfathers thing would indeed be crazy. It would however also fit the theme of the game so far, which is to lie to NJW about everything.

I mean, this is a bastard game because it has millers and godfathers. But if there's only one godfather and no death millers then we have the thief and one scum, and there's almost definitely another scum, so either CM is mafia lying about the double-vote or Sofa is mafia.

I don't think CM is lying about the double vote, so I don't think CM is mafia. But it would be weird for CM to be mafia framed as 3p in any case.


Hmph... Eliminating Imp really wasn't the play D2.

I don't think we kill CM here under any circumstances. I think sofa did genuinely want to be investigated... so either they're godfather or town. So there's no point worrying about the implausibility of double godfathers because I'm hypothesising them in either case. Kinda feels like I'm having to second-guess the setup a lot.


I keep coming back to Max or Sofa.

Sofanthiel - roleclaim please.

Fixed. It was Max Spin that didn't vote. The Dead can't vote.

Thanks - sorry to quibble, just wanted to make sure things weren't getting extra-weird.

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...maybe there's an obvious explanation, but I don't think I can mechanically solve this. Might be time to ignore the damn inspect.

In which case... yeah, is it just Max? The guy that suggested we leave mafia alive because they claimed 3p? The guy pushing the idea of a single-player mafia?

It really could be that simple. And while there's some dubiousness to CM this game, blindly following the inspect is clearly a terrible idea, especially as we haven't found the framer. And "framed" is a status effect, suggesting it lingers, giving the framer plenty of time to apply it to a bunch of people.

Which would also chime with no kills happening.

...

Going to take a lot of convincing that it's anyone other than Max at this point. If he's genuinely town and suggested leaving Quarque alive after the guy claimed 3p... maybe just DON'T do that kind of thing in the future?