Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Show Posts

This section allows you to view all posts made by this member. Note that you can only see posts made in areas you currently have access to.

Messages - peasant cretin

Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 71
1
DF Adventure Mode Discussion / Re: About size, strength and muscles
« on: September 11, 2023, 08:40:59 pm »
Quote from: Ziusudra on September 10, 2023, 11:29:22 pm
I've also noticed a bug with the way size is included in the appearance description. A dwarf with both dimensions in the range of 96-104 will not hav any mention of size. This includes not mentioning if they are muscular or fat. But then if either dimension are out of that range but still in the range of 91-109, they will then be described as of average size (or just muscular and/or fat if either of those apply). Only when either or both dimensions are outside that range are they described as short, tall, thin, broad, small, large, stout or lanky (and muscular or fat as applies).
Yeah that makes all the non-description units in adventure mode suspect when scouting enemy profiles, since you dont know how big they are, especially if you are kind of cherry-picking which melee bandits to fight first at the very beginning, to skew your force transfer down to as minimal as possible if using a melee-only character.

But finding a way (at least for modding) to make it more "readable/scoutable" would be good. I haven't been persistent in testing it, but I have tried very high numbers for [APP_MOD_IMPORTANCE:9000] to push that to the very top...the consistency is meh...

2
DF Adventure Mode Discussion / Re: About size, strength and muscles
« on: September 11, 2023, 08:11:21 pm »
An edit to my above post and an answer to:

Quote from: Ziusudra on September 10, 2023, 11:29:22 pm
...(Assuming size gain from muscle is linear.)

For a 60K adult sized, 100 height/100 broadness, 1000 strength creature, with the muscle [THICKENS_ON_STRENGTH] token *active*, but with the fat [THICKENS_ON_ENERGY_STORAGE] *off*, weight increases by 10 urists for every 250 points of strength.

Code: [Select]
strength bodyweight at 60K size
1000 74 urists
1250 84
1500 94
1750 104
2000 114
2250 124
2500 134
2750 144
3000 154
3250 164
3500 174
3750 184
4000 194
4250 204
4500 214

But with the fat [THICKENS_ON_ENERGY_STORAGE] set to *on* there's that 6-8? urist variance.

also the relevant numbers for a "dummy/test unit":
Code: [Select]
muscle [THICKENS_ON_STRENGTH] token brackets *on*, but fat THICKENS_ON_ENERGY_STORAGE brackets *off*

[BODY_SIZE:12:0:60000]

[BODY_APPEARANCE_MODIFIER:HEIGHT:100:100:100:100:100:100:100]
[APP_MOD_IMPORTANCE:500]
[BODY_APPEARANCE_MODIFIER:BROADNESS:100:100:100:100:100:100:100]
[APP_MOD_IMPORTANCE:500]

[PHYS_ATT_RANGE:STRENGTH:1000:1000:1000:1000:1000:1000:1000] <= edit with the strength numbers you want, but the same across the span

^this is what I use for damage testing, so there isn't noise from height/broadness or the unknown extra urists from fat...as well as:
Code: [Select]
[PHYS_ATT_RATES:0:NONE:NONE:NONE] <= no attribute gain
[SKILL_RATES:0:NONE:NONE:NONE] <= no skill gain

so there is only "first spawn first swing damage" for the weapon being tested.

3
DF Adventure Mode Discussion / Re: About size, strength and muscles
« on: September 10, 2023, 03:53:13 pm »
Quote from: Ziusudra on September 07, 2023, 08:25:07 pm
Quote from: eerr on September 07, 2023, 02:56:40 pm
"tall, broad, large"
These are derived attributes that come from the average dwarf comparing themselves to the creature. That change happened in a previous version.
For the second time in as many days I ask if you got any thing to back that up? From the 50.09 raws:
Quote from: creature_standard.txt
   These body modifiers give individual dwarves different characteristics.  In the case of HEIGHT, BROADNESS and LENGTH, the modifier is also a percentage change to the BODY_SIZE of the individual creature.  The seven numbers afterward give a distribution of ranges.  Each interval has an equal chance of occurring.

   [BODY_APPEARANCE_MODIFIER:HEIGHT:75:95:98:100:102:105:125]
      [APP_MOD_IMPORTANCE:500]
   [BODY_APPEARANCE_MODIFIER:BROADNESS:75:95:98:100:102:105:125]
      [APP_MOD_IMPORTANCE:500]
Though apparently I was wrong about the 25% being less likely than the others.

Whichever the descriptive term (dwarf is broad, is tall, is thin, is short, large/small, etc) this is relative to all other dwarves who are the mean (100 height and 100 broadness).

4
DF Adventure Mode Discussion / Re: About size, strength and muscles
« on: September 10, 2023, 03:43:13 pm »
Quote from: Conradine on September 06, 2023, 09:02:57 am
Questions about size.

First, can someone explain me precisely the relationship between strength and muscle mass / size?

Weight increases by 10 urists for roughly for every 250 points of strength.

So a creature (dwarf/elf/goblin) at 60K adult size, who is neither tall nor broad (height 100/broadness 100)...

[BODY_APPEARANCE_MODIFIER:HEIGHT:75:95:98:100:102:105:125]
[APP_MOD_IMPORTANCE:500]
[BODY_APPEARANCE_MODIFIER:BROADNESS:75:95:98:100:102:105:125]
[APP_MOD_IMPORTANCE:500]

...at 1000 strength, will weigh 74-76 urists. I say *roughly* every 250 points of strength, because a 60K adult sized, 100 height/100 broadness, 4500 strength creature will weight around 215-220 urists.

This is only true if in the tissue_template_default, the [THICKENS_ON_STRENGTH] token is active for muscle.

If as a modder you make that token inactive, then every 100 height/100 broadness 60K sized creature will weigh 74-76 urists no matter what their strength is.

I guess the interesting thing is how this affects charge attacks.

Excluding mutual entanglements where both units fall to the ground, charge checks first for who is bigger urist-wise. if everyone is the same weight, then charge defaults to checking for who is stronger.

5
DF Modding / Re: METAL_ARMOR_LEVELS/ARMORLEVEL question
« on: November 09, 2022, 09:32:49 pm »
Quote from: Tachytaenius on November 05, 2022, 05:03:02 am
Does armour level even do anything besides determine whether to wear like civilian clothing?
It's mainly useful for separating what melee and range units will spawn/generate with item pop-wise. Melee will use any, but range units are limited: they will never show with hand/foot/pants armor higher than ARMORLEVEL:1.

Quote from: Tachytaenius on November 05, 2022, 07:36:29 am
I suppose I could split items into different variants with set ARMORLEVELs if it turns out ARMORLEVEL has any importance.
This is your solution.

Remove the METAL_ARMOR_LEVELS token and replace it with ARMORLEVEL:1, which is what I have:
Code: [Select]
[ITEM_PANTS:ITEM_PANTS_LEGGINGS]
[NAME:leggings:leggings]
[CHAIN_METAL_TEXT]
[ARMORLEVEL:1] ^pcrtn: 1 means game will let archers use mail
METAL_ARMOR_LEVELS ^pcrtn: no longer needed as leather isn't being used
[LBSTEP:MAX]
[SHAPED]
[LAYER:OVER] ^pcrtn: was armor
[COVERAGE:100]
[LAYER_SIZE:15]
[LAYER_PERMIT:30]
[MATERIAL_SIZE:5]
SCALED ^pcrtn: removed
[METAL]
LEATHER ^pcrtn: removed
BARRED ^pcrtn: removed
[STRUCTURAL_ELASTICITY_CHAIN_METAL]

6
DF Modding / Re: How to make my guns more damaging?
« on: October 25, 2022, 11:45:39 pm »
An interesting, funny trivial finding are when SHOOT_FORCE and SHOOT_MAXVEL are very high, ammo fired experiences xwearx irrespective of whether it hits or misses.

7
DF Modding / Re: How to make my guns more damaging?
« on: October 25, 2022, 11:28:09 pm »
9 is a very low contact area which leans you toward chipping and small bone breaks rather than pulping. 100 or higher is a lot better for this. Your ammo's 3K velocity only applies to the ammo being used in melee as miscellaneous object user skill.

In doing a quick test (re:going more cannon than arquebus/musket), and expecting the shot to propel the target backwards and obliterate, I went with SHOOT_FORCE and SHOOT_MAXVEL at 900K or more with 200 contact area ammo. But you could go much higher at say 900M.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
This was just me mucking about with either SHOOT_FORCE and SHOOT_MAXVEL  and the ammo's contact area.

While I don't know what damage messages you are looking for, I changed the numbers to get cannon ball effect.

8
DF Suggestions / Re: Knitting!
« on: September 14, 2022, 11:47:22 pm »
Hmmm...kinda want there to be a likelyhood that dwarven parent(s) will be prone to knitting for their children. Sort of a mood, but without the madness. Just wholesomeness.

9
DF Modding / Re: Combat Questions
« on: August 26, 2022, 09:32:45 pm »
Putnam's comment on token BAD_MULTIATTACK is about the penalties to a player control unit.

For NPCs, the token BAD_MULTIATTACK is meant to prohibit its paring with ATTACK_FLAG_INDEPENDENT_MULTIATTACK.

Any NPC's initial attack that has token ATTACK_FLAG_INDEPENDENT_MULTIATTACK means that this attack can be paired with any follow-up attack with or without that token, *but* not with any attack that has token ATTACK_FLAG_BAD_MULTIATTACK.

So say you changed the whip to have INDEPENDENT_MULTIATTACK instead of BAD_MULTIATTACK, this would make an NPC who chose lash to pair lash with punch, scratch, bite (all of which are without a flag), but not kick because kick has BAD_MULTIATTACK.


----------------


Also in regard to Sver's mod, a thing (in my view) to keep in mind is, besides being a combat overhaul, his mod is also a force transfer dampening mod. This means his material template changes (to dampen force transfer) are meant to work with his weapon system and this is partly a reason for contact area changes, as well as the intent to allow for armor penetration.

10
DF Modding / Re: What's going on in your modding?
« on: July 13, 2022, 06:22:45 pm »
Any NPC's initial attack that has token ATTACK_FLAG_INDEPENDENT_MULTIATTACK can be paired with any follow-up attack with or without that token, *but* not with any attack that has token ATTACK_FLAG_BAD_MULTIATTACK.

So for me, to differentiate weapon behavior categories, I have anti-armor percussives/force transfer-capable weapons as single action, meaning the AI will make the single action choice, but "lighter" edge weapons like swords allow for "follow up" actions (multi-attacks). In the vanilla game only the hydra runs multi-attack.
 
For example my sword stab and slash attacks have ATTACK_FLAG_INDEPENDENT_MULTIATTACK, but not the pommel shots. This means if a sword & shield NPC chooses stab or slash with sword, they would be given a "follow up" action. If they choose anything else, it's just single action for them.

In the vanilla sense, the follow up could be shield bash, block, punch, bite, scratch, but not kick; as kick have the ATTACK_FLAG_BAD_MULTIATTACK which means they can never be paired up as a multi-attack for the AI.

Basically it's a way of making an NPC martial art. You could do say Art of 8 limbs or whatnot with this. 

11
DF Modding / Re: What's going on in your modding?
« on: July 02, 2022, 03:15:31 pm »
Just re-treading Grimlocke and Sver's steps.

Been mucking about with non-material superiority fort combats since end of 2021. With the main changes to vanilla's combat since 34.11 being 2014's tile-positional/attack-aiming momentum amplifiers versus 2016's addition of unmoderated force transfer and armor wear.

When you mute force transfer, you get 2014 but with armor wear and limb protections. That reduces armored combat to a few low contact area weapons with everything else being not useful.

10 and 20 contact areas make percussion pretty unconditional and favor the level creep advantage where Lvl14's get 2X momentum, which sort of doesnt (to me) make the most of a momentum stacking system governed by dogpile conditions.

Irrespective of succumb or repel invasion, I really didnt want to see an average athleticsim dorf handle a super gooned goblin or vice versa.

So I realized I wanted combats centered around highly regulated force transfer and with a standardized weapon system.

Fortifying muscle/sinew numbers in the material_template_default and the tissue_template_default's token [THICKENS_ON_STRENGTH] for muscle, plus scaling contact to 30-40 was a way to gatekeep damage.

Right now at force transfer soak and delivery being scaled between a strength baseline of 1500 up to 2250; and a weapon skill floor of level 3 to the ceiling of level 11.

Kinda fun to watch arena'd Lvl3 2250 brutes out-gooning the grandmasters. Is true to life.

Randomy random combat thoughts.

12
DF Modding / Re: What's going on in your modding?
« on: December 18, 2021, 01:41:28 pm »
Quote from: Nautilus on December 14, 2021, 07:41:58 pm
Quote from: peasant cretin on October 24, 2021, 08:51:53 am
Part of DF's system for combat is an attacker's number of available attacks applied against the defender's targetable body parts.

Shorter menus for both, IMO equal cleaner simulation for units under AI control.

Besides what Sver and Taffer used for facial features, adding INTERNAL token to toes and fingers, and limiting natural attacks to left/right punch/kick for HUMANOID_NECK creatures achieves this nicely.

Due to force transfer's overpowered numbers, the less pin-to-tile behavior for all AIs involved in group skirmishes, the better, so along with BITE removal there's wrestling controls via prehensile grips.

Insofar as you can tinker with wrestling, I've removed the LIMB token from upper/lower arms, and upper legs to simulate the real world's possible 2 points of contact standing/4 on the ground: hands retain GRASP and lower legs retain LIMB.

Standing units who have been world-genned/assigned with hands filled won't wrestle at all.

To be consistent I guess most creatures not HUMANOID_NECK need the LIMB token removed since wrestling unfortunately can proceed beyond the tie-up contact stage to strangles/joint-locks for many animals. While occasionally funny to watch a horse spam various joint-locks, it's not all that great simulation-wise.

The problem of force transfer can be navigated in Adventure Mode under player control, but it's not well managed for AIs, particularly smaller creatures like your melee squads inflicting force transfer on larger critters like semi/megabeasts. Unsure what I'll do here.

Just removed most of the limb tokens from [HUMANOID_NECK]. When I tested in the arena I was able to break someones hips and they did not fall over. Unfortunately the limb tokens are also used to define the function of the body part bot just for wrestling. After I put the lib tokens back a single broken hip would cause a human to collapse.

Much thanks for pointing that out. That's interesting and unintentional due to my careless reading of the body token page on the wiki.

So, I too have reverted back to the world of eldritch abomination wrestling ^__^ ---> all can/cant_learn animals resume their training under John Danaher.

13
DF Adventure Mode Discussion / Re: Any tips on creating worlds filled with enemies to fight in Adventure Mode?
« on: December 11, 2021, 11:59:32 am »
Play around with advanced world gen, and choose a medium region, as opposed to island.

You'll likely want to stop the world between 200-to-mid300s, because beyond this necromancers will start taking over, unless you want that. Of course you can somewhat manipulate necro as well.

This is the most you can do without modding. In particular in regard to animals.

Another thing to point out is, if you really like the map generated, and you are good with the numbers of semi/mega, titan etc, you can reuse the world seed and regen the same map, albeit with differences as the world chugs along in time.

14
DF Adventure Mode Discussion / Re: Started as a peasant, went to castle and took anything I wanted...
« on: November 17, 2021, 07:15:30 pm »
Quote from: EuchreJack on November 07, 2021, 11:07:25 am
Peasant->Hero->Demigod is simply a rating of how advanced is your starting character, it also has some effect on maximum stats I think?
Yeah. If you use all your attribute points, you get a better stat floor, as the max stat ceiling is 2X the floor.

Contrary to the common belief, IMO peasant isn't more difficult because it starts with a lower point allotment. For example, if a peasant/hero/demigod has level one defensive stats, then they should fight critters who have level zero attack stats.

Higher attributes do provide bonuses to rolls, but a unit under player control doesn't need them like a unit under AI control.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Quote from: Laterigrade on November 07, 2021, 02:00:42 am
...to feel like you have agency.
Quote from: PlumpHelmetMan on November 07, 2021, 04:06:28 pm
I mean I've experienced shades of the kind of disconnected experience peasant cretin is describing, but it's never been enough to turn me off adventure mode entirely (especially since I know it's a WIP that will get better) and I've still had plenty of fun with it.
The weirdness/creepiness isn't off-putting enough to skip Adventure Mode.

Adventure Mode offers you the most in regard to agency (participation vs imposition), despite being less alive.

You can create coherent personalities and character arcs (at least right now) that the world gen units of fort mode won't have.

15
DF Adventure Mode Discussion / Re: Started as a peasant, went to castle and took anything I wanted...
« on: November 06, 2021, 03:24:08 pm »
Quote from: Bralbaard on November 06, 2021, 12:28:25 pm
Actually quite a lot is happening to other parts of the world while you are playing. The main problem is that most citizens are not historical figures and know nothing of these events. Someone could have murdered the king, and they would just continue about their business.

Yeah, events are occurring in both modes, but I meant this more along the lines of aliveness being restricted to your map.

While it can be said that events punctuate the span of a real/fictional person's chronology, it's the in-between moments that act as connective tissue for those events. They are the experience of being alive.

On your map this is the needs system along with areas of activity.

Let's say the king had a child in year 294. It's just an out of context event and prolly wont be made any more real unless he comes to your fort. Two of your spun from air dwarves have a child, this is also an event, but has the context of all those in-between moments fostered by needs/areas.

Adventure Mode is a doll in a popup book world, and that doll very far from being like the Velveteen Rabbit.

Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 71