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Messages - FantasticDorf

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3211
DF General Discussion / Re: Future of the Fortress
« on: July 24, 2016, 04:44:59 pm »

With the approach of the artifact revamp (which may be already out by the time you read this...
It's going to take quite a bit longer than 6 days for the artifact release to happen. Taverns seemed pretty simple and that took a year. The framework and worldgen stuff's only just started, all the in-game things that the player actually gets to interact with hasn't even started yet, and that'll take a while. I have no idea, of course, but I can just imagine Kobold site generation by itself bogging down development for month or two.

With any luck toady might take this year or the next few months ramping up the out-of-site interactions (such as reclaiming relics) to soften them up for the earliest practical iterations of the army arc/regional world gen interactions like hunting or taming great beasts etc, which toady in DFtalk has said he is keen to do. Not to mention the magic arc.

3212
DF Modding / Re: [MODDING] REACTIONS QUESTIONS THREAD
« on: July 24, 2016, 04:25:24 pm »
Anyone know how to make a creature drop a porcelain mug on death?
I know it works like
Code: [Select]
[ITEMCORPSE:something:MUG:INORGANIC:PORCELAIN]but I don't know what that 'something' is.

Yep putnam's right on the money. Goblet is the core type, it'll be automatically re-named into a mug when converting to a HARD MAT type like that anyway.

3213
In theory, unless the necromancer is hellbent to jump through the fortifications to attack, or there is a flaw as to how close that is needed to be required (or another fault) to reanimate a creature this design should work.

Apply a reverse giant cave spider silk web collection room by pitting the necro after stripping them of their possessions (to remove any weapons) into this fortified bolthole, drop non-flying bodies in front of them onto a raised equal height (the ditch is there to put another barrier to creatures climbing up the walls to the fortifications) floor to reanimate when they aggro at the soldiers behind fortifications at the opposite side of the room.

On top of a smoothed out wall infront and one z level below of the fortifications (the ditch is actually 2 wide, if you knock out that wall, smooth natural stone works best because it is poor for climbing) at either side of the room, place a retracting bridge and hook it up to a lever to queue up a lever pull-job to break the line of sight, because it is raised and obstructing the fortifications, it shouldn't atom smash anybody and if done quickly, allows the corpse to rise, get caught in a surrounding cage trap, allow technicians to reset the traps and be ready to use again when a new corpse is ready and squad in position without aggroing the necro further or causing anybody to freak out.

WWB>+++<BF
NFB>+C+<BF
WWB>+++<BF


Walls (W), floor (+), fortification (F), upward slopes (</>), corpses (C), bridge (B)

I would recommend putting doors or a small retracting bridge somewhere so that technicians can get inside safely, keep in mind that animals carry traits in animation so don't pit anything that isn't melee or can't be caught

3214
Pots queued up to jobs that dwarves have targeted will have a little {sign} on them to indicate they are queued for a job.
{} denotes forbidden items - containers, on the other hand, display "<#nnn>" after the item name to denote that they have been assigned to stockpile #nnn.

Ah. got my brain wires slightly crossed. Thanks for the informative correction as always quietust

3215
DF General Discussion / Re: Future of the Fortress
« on: July 24, 2016, 01:26:56 pm »
Another quickfire question for toady.

Are/can slabs be worthy enough artifacts (for both goblins and necromancers) to prompt wars over if they are stolen/claimed by a adventurer or entity? In such a case that goblins may wish to reclaim their demonic master, or as per not engaging in apprentice training, armies of the dead lead by necromancers and apprentices chase down to punish the thief, chasing them and where the tome ends up (potentially in a fortress prompting conflict) all across the land relentlessly as a hostile factional night creature force (like a loyalty cascade where usual night creature pacification rules don't apply, as necro-on-necro macabre pokemon undead infighting)

That humorous bugfix in the post above might be inevitable, but it might also might be a feature in some aspect.

3216
Hello, a long time ago when nightbeasts were introduced there was a hosted dev talk by toady detailing how a greater cast of night creatures may well be coming in via development in the future. A comprehensive list of the ones detailed by Toady (in this DF talk) and on the DFwiki - Night creatures, where the coloured tiles are provided for viewing.

Given the new development progress on the construction of artisan worldgen artifacts, im assuming now would be a good time to suggest a way of perverting (naturally thats the first thing any DF player can think of, "how can i pervert/exploit this game mechanic") that development to bring into being the much promised loosely stitched together monstrosities at the hands of very bored and [strange mood] prone bunch of death obsessed necromancers.

Outlining points of constructed horrors.

> Frankensteinian monsters are complex creations by necromancers who bulk up the armies and serve as personal servants and often close guards (at the top of the tower surrounding their masters and traveling with them as companions much like a adventurer, how much intelligence they have is speculative, unless it is forced to speak and be intelligent regardless)
  • These monsters are a advanced threat to civilizations rather than the normally easy to put down shambling dead, being (usually) physically and mentally impressive, and would pose a challenge to adventurers looking to steal slabs as their varied appearance may cause problems slightly more important that hacking off its head if it has three stitched on ones.

> In DFtalk 14 where 'constructed undead' crop up in the discussion, they are described as mismatched monstrosities with usually disproportionate appendages (like gorlak heads) as per larger arms being sown onto smaller bodies etc. Toady also details additional aspects such as piecing together weapons into the anatomy of the creature.
  • In current 'world activation' game mechanic terms, this would mean out of the surrounding lands where necromancers practice within a radius of their site like usual 'taming' (biomes covering the premises of the site and also 1 tile around a site) rules they can source bodies, also accruing them from invaders/defenders and local entities
  • Again with world activation, stealing slabs as a adventurer as per the new artifact rules on declaring to reclaim may cause conflicts to explode when existing tower civs act upon it as a declaration of war and travel great distances outside of their usual radiuses, picking up bodies from battles as they travel along, bringing potentially great ruin to civs and nerfing exploits of taking slabs (your curse to take a slab of a necromancer without first earning it in apprenticeship is to be chased by the dead forever) and dropping them off in settlements to have new owners.

> Possibly via use of a alchemist skill/surgeon (/necromantic spell ability skill?) and a some kind of alchemical bench workshop/study/traction bench (horrific stuff, just a place to graft together body parts and hold the monster down.) a strange macabre (from corpse pieces) or fell mood (involving murdering the nearest dwarf/animal near you for parts) taking place there will construct a monster. Of course under dwarven ethics and generally most ethics, there will be punishment for a act, but unless the necromancer 'gets away' with it via the overseer muddling the judical books deliberately, you may want to have to control this beast for the duration that the necromancer is hostile in prison to avoid a loyalty cascade or forseeable
  • Because a range of mortals join towers as apprentices and in general the secrets of life and death change hands in different ways,we can assume that just having a [STRANGE_MOOD] tag would just improve the slow rate that necromancers produce these unique 'artifact specimens' besides books so that it will remain a feature as long as towers are being generated rather than dwarf necromancer exclusive thing which severely limits the world to set parameters

> Fighting or even looking a constructed horror possibly made out of the people you love ought to be a terrifying and haunting experience, having them about in your own military and fortress should cause extreme morale and mood issues. If you were to obtain a entity 'friendly' example of such a creature, you should probably pit or isolate it for a extreme emergency in which to use it, it would be a excellent creature to build a dungeon or extensive crypt/pit around for atmosphere.
  • Stray horrors (as per master dying or being cast out/spare) should probably be pretty common types to occupy dungeons and catacombs along with other night beasts are usually banished to or go to hide from the authorities within towns, leading to recruiting these horrors if you are a night creature yourself (like subterranean men for a example)
  • A 'friendly' or at-least a infiltrator necromancer (ready to be accused and lynched at a moments notice) walking into a big city, could have a urge to do a experiment (/set of experiments) then trying to hide the evidence of them doing it by stashing the subjects into a dungeon/catacomb and denying it explicitly until the time comes to strike and a small army of the undead underneath emerges from the inner bowels and outcrops of the town for a organised strike

> Clearing out dungeons and forbidden tomb sites in order to steal artifacts by using the undead and night creatures that accumulate there as defensive guardians (as demonstrated by this DF talk, detailing slightly more advanced kinds of dungeons and catacombs, where world generated artifacts and treasure is placed as a reward) is sure to give you a commendable reference list as a slayer of monsters and a source of quest fodder.

Conclusion & additional thoughts


I guess the closest comparison to what the night creatures and necromancers might end up looking like at the end of most of these speculative points come true is probably closer to the occultistic forces of (warhammers iteration anyway) Chaos. A bunch of savage nightmarish and twisted beasts and villians mixed in with a bit of vampire lord/tomb lord un-dead. Pity they aren't a entity type we can prod and mod if we can feasably think of necromancer towers as being a fortress type and haunted houses/mini-tombs/pillaged and cursed settlements being hamlets where spare night creatures/zombies can mingle freely with a small array of intelligent undead/vampires etc to run this ramshackle 'town' to abstract normality.

Quote
Urist Grimshackles body was grave-robbed from the fortress Beechoils and brought to the Necromancer's Tower/Crypt city (etc.) Deathhalls to be reanimated as a intelligent un-dead/zombie/part of a construct horror

Necromancers and vampire cults (this may get fleshed out later for more majority organised groups) seem to be the 'leading' types if we assume that under normal circumstances night creatures are just isolated groups that occasionally come into contact (and forced/rational conflict) with each other. A full on 'Thriller' roll-call monster siege or army would be interesting if the world acted too poorly to combat such threats with mobs and creature-hunters and they grew to such power to form a organized force to forward their motives.

Goblins are 'evil' in themselves for violence and brutality but nightcreatures and the undead just want to kill everyone and harvest their bodies and souls or something along those lines for their own needs. Again i might be being personally influenced into making the forces of absolute-darkness a bit of a fantasy trope, but telling me what you think of that would be helpful for everyone.

Anyhow, if anybody has any constructive feedback to support this suggestion, it would be very much appreciated.

BIBLIOGRAPY
Quote
Necromancers and vampires getting powerful and experienced over time. (author-King_of_Baboons - March 11, 2016)  Notes - A very interesting thread from little over a month ago, a particular amount of skill on part of master, not apprentice necromancers putting together solid well built constructs?
Quote
Dwarf Surgeons Get Strange Moods (author- Coidzure Dreams -April 26, 2010)
Quote
Interesting thing about Magic: Necromancy (author - Shadowgandor -  January 01, 2009)
Quote
Do The Undead Have Souls? (author - diefortheswarm- October 18, 2008) Notes - Potentially relevant to created undead.
Quote
Reinstate house Râsh / Armies of the Undead (author-martinuzz - December 19, 2007) Notes - A more civil bunch of necromancers/undead for a more civil age.

3217
I just thought of something. You dont need to create a FURNITURE stockpile of pots to store food inside (on the same stockpile) or link a furniture stockpile (however linking a furniture stockpile of pots is nessecary for workshops that are link restricted, for use of special materials etc, like plump helmet stockpiles linked to a brewery which then needs a pot stockpile because normal collection rules are expelled.), just make sure that furniture stockpile where the pots are being stored is open and not links only and dwarves collect and deposit pots to the number allocated & 1 spare not in use pot as needed.

Pots queued up to jobs that dwarves have targeted will have a little {sign} on them to indicate they are queued for a job.

3218
The heirloom sock, is obviously required, and it should be the main cause of wars in the history of the world, that would be hilarious.

One sock to rule them all, and in the darkness bind us.

3219
You could disassemble the wagon for charcoal if you find ore. Or you could focus on mining until the caravan arrives to make beds and buckets.

You can't make a wood burner to create charcoal unless you bring/find some fire proof hard materials, however you can't use clay (which is infinite) either because that requires building a kiln, if you're on a aquifer embark you'd have to rely on random assorted stones in the caravan, which in that case it will probably take till year 2 with a formalised trade agreement in place and jumped up prices.

Dig for fire proof stone or bust.

3220
DF Modding / Re: [MODDING] CREATURE & ENTITY QUESTIONS THREAD
« on: July 24, 2016, 04:53:22 am »
Alternatively read the detailed change log and 'update notes' of each for auxiliary non-declared changes and consult the wiki. It's contained within 'file changes' in the version DF folder, the latest one will have the current and historical file changes contained within often with a lot of editable RAW centric tags being removed and added.

Again the wiki has a usually up to date collection of tokens to be applied which ill leave a link for you here.
DFWIKI - token

3221
DF Modding / Re: [MODDING] 0.43.x QUESTIONS THREAD
« on: July 24, 2016, 04:49:11 am »
This isn't exactly the place for these questions (i offer my apologies if im being percievably snobby, but this is a MODDING rather than a pixelart thread), but you could create a alternate 'soldier tile' for the creature when it it does equip armor, that's a 0.43 modding thing to do

You can try drawing a weapon for each, but using your imagination with a soldier tile lizard-man is recommended generally.


3222
DF General Discussion / Re: Future of the Fortress
« on: July 23, 2016, 04:44:38 pm »
Well currently you can mod the lifespan of almost everything. I certainly do. My dwarves live for 480 years at most and my elves live to 3000 while goblins have a rather short live at 120 years top (the same as humans I think).
But it's indeed a good question. While you currently can mod the races to be like Tolkien, Warhammer, Warcraft or whatever, would they be affected by the randomness at some point? Or could we choose among several stereotypes of each race or predefined characteristics.

I think the DF races mechanically in the game are represented well. Fantasy characters have never been smooth sailing for interpretation (goblins used to be much different before D&D and subsequent pop culture after that with warhammer and WoW when 'greenskins' as we know them were brought into the main-steam)

Both the elves and goblins have excellent natural memory statistics (so that they never rust or forget a song) to compensate for immortality.

3223
DF Dwarf Mode Discussion / Re: What's going on in your fort?
« on: July 23, 2016, 04:39:34 pm »
Put more nobles with [MILITARY STRATEGY] onto the entity and civs will have the capacity to make more armies out of surplus population. That's to say i don't know the specifics about how armies draft or are divided, though the general benefit is that it makes them more competent at what they do in a sense and i think it nets the individual (i heard a tidbit about this not sure if its true given its hard to confirm) tactics skills if they survive.

Generally without modding to give dwarves a population siege trigger of four (110 people in-site, which seems fair for a siege of 120-150 people wearing steel armour possibly riding cavern beasts from a fortress perspective) to also prompt them to go after the largest and usually capital (In terms of cutting down the largest goblin pits and towers in range) provinces of their own accord, they are actually very good at offensive warfare in this respect because they have lots of worthy site nobles to lead in each site and letting the dwarf civ grow means they can bulk up (also given that they will wear full suits of armor).

The fact that as toady in the devblog points out (dwarves may now have a reason to hover their hand over the trigger to go to war) pretty much excites this fact I've pointed out.

3 armies leading successive hits on a target or multiple targets at once with different nobleman commanders (such as a goblin civilisation given site nobles, as per my own modding to offer more military, directed by a general noble *who might be responsible for manifesting armies, needs science*) can usually crush the enemy with attrition or numbers. Given the defenders have to duel with less people on the 'second-round' it evens out even uphill fights so that wars are more resolute if one sided rather than fizzing out at a peace deal and nothing .

3224
44

One copper pick.
and a copper axe once you update to the last version...

I go with the default so I can copy my embark profile. It really depends on the embark site on what I bring. Some wood if it's a mountain, glacier or desert, stone if I get an aquifer, often cassiterite and tetrahedrite...

Bronze for every eventuality (such as complete civ death, since alloys in embark terms are independent of their reagents) as well as being a generally sharper material would probably be better for a set of picks and battleaxes to a strict 'all eventualities' small budget.

3225
DF General Discussion / Re: Future of the Fortress
« on: July 23, 2016, 02:48:56 pm »
Good news everyone the dev chat just got updated. The heirloom mechanics look nice.

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