Bay 12 Games Forum

Quote from: Williham on February 18, 2016, 04:16:26 pm

I tore down the library entirely and made a new location. Soon as I did, work resumed.

For about 5 minutes. 

The Scribes copied two books and called it a day. Work stalled again.

You say your scribes are jotting it all down. Do your scholars actually have enough materials to produce new work? If all your paper is being routed to your scribes (via them claiming to use it, a lot like bins and barrels about to go out to a place or be used), thats probably a good reason why you're being left high and dry.

Greetings. My basic suggestion is that by application of work orders pools or just in general, smears of blood can be collected for extract piles.

Example

"Dwarves collect/ignore liquids"
"Collect/ignore refuse from outside"

instead of cleaning a surface, instead they will bottle whatever they can find, this may mean everything from the random blood scraps of your enemies, friends, raw vomit of your friends drinking too much to indescribable but *convenient* slime/blood that falls from the sky. they may also bottle spare water took from melted glaciers that will become pourable and drinkable, with additional bits of luck they might find some dregs of booze and return it to your booze stockpiles.

To complement these, i would also recommend that butchery creates a pool of blood/or a amount  that gets passively cleaned away unless refuse collection on liquids is on.

> Off the radar or enforced/encouraged vampirism gets a boost
> If space becomes a concern, just dump the liquids and turn refuse collection off to recollect the containers and let dwarves clean up
> Selling blood is a valuable enterprise, especially if obtained by slaughtering valuable animals
> Opportunity to transfuse blood to hospital patients
> Can be dumped in specific places in order to coat objects
> Extracting poison may be possible from the butchery screen
> 'Armok Wills It'

Feedback would be appreciated. Thanks

What I'd like to see is cultural-specific food dishes, such as

->not!Curries, which would require mashed herbs, spices, etc, some form of dairy, and some form of meat or vegetable
->not!Pies, which would require a pastry shell and a meat or jam or fruit or vegetable+egg filling.

"This is a elven grown croissant, it is made out of grown wheat flour, filled with the exceptionally diced meat of the fallen warrior Urist Mclovin, seasoned with grown walnuts and a glaze of honey"

[ITEM_FOOD:PIE] *Universal i would think*
[ITEM_FOOD: PORRIDGE] *Human mush from all those above ground plants and their dinky little handheld pestles, probably needs seasoning with a little dwarven sugar or a kegful of drink*
[ITEM_FOOD:BROTH] *Goblin speciality for boiling down barely edible meat & bones, would probably keep their carnivorous tendencies in check and supply them with food & to some extent drink*
[ITEM_FOOD:SALAD] *No comment needed, shouldn't even exist*
[ITEM_PREPARED_FISH] *Requires a bone extraction knife to double/increase by a quarter of cooked goods (could use a similar method to keeping materials in reserve like metal forging) and avoid negative thoughts, incrementally increases waste with spare unusable fish bones*

Some interesting things to talk about. Yes. expanding on Muse's point there for a second, culturally divided dishes that require a little more work and additional tools to use *cauldrons for one besides from cooking liquids, and perhaps converting things into liquids instead*

What i really want to see out of expanded cooking are intense steel-armok-wok festivities.

"At the chime of a enourmous copper gong, both chefs wrestle and strike down the tethered black bear, strangle it with its guts, then have 12 minutes to prepare those guts to a judge's required expectations. The first one to win this stage will then get a headstart to the second phase of beating the opponent in combat unconcious or to the death with a large masterwork steel wok to be declared the victor. Bystanding elves in the audience will suffice as a worthily unworthy opponent instead."

Word to the wise with designating armour sizes, not all creatures are listed on there. The best you can do is compare the sizes roughly to creatures equivalent to them. This is particularly important for custom races/creatures.

Example - Polar bears are about the size of a troll (not literally speaking but in RAW terms) therefore trolls will be able to fit in polar-bear man sized armour and polar bear men should be able to fit in troll armour/clothing.

A chart of size can be found here for reference, besides digging into the raws and pulling out info on what 60,000 (dwarf size) is compared to a human's (70,000) size.
DF WIKI:Creature

I'm thinking it is something to do with the [SLOW_LEARNER] token, actually; it seems to be one of those tokens that has a collection of functions. It seems to imply [INTELLIGENT] to some degree, but it also makes the race count as a pet in many ways and is not an acceptable tag for a civ level entity (you can generate a world with a SLOW_LEARNER race, but trying to play fortress mode with them results in auto-collapse). I imagine the pet-forcing behavior of the token doesn't change the "no butchering sapient species" rule.

Not necessarily true. You can play with a slow learner race as long as you have at least one 'normal' civilian creature to buffer up the rest.  (true with fortress mode too)

example:

[STUPID_AS_ROCKS_CIV]

[SITE_CONTROLLABLE]
[CREATURE: *Custom intelligent creature you've made yourself or a relevant imported animalman/other as a 'buffer' to stop worldgen crashes*]
[CREATURE: TROLL]
[CREATURE: OGRE]
[SUBSELECT_SYMBOL:WAR:NAME_WAR]
[SELECT_SYMBOL:UGLY]
[SUBSELECT_SYMBOL:PRIMITIVE]
[WEAPON/ITEM/ARMOUR/TOOL etc.]

*To stop inundation i would recommend a high starting pop and a relatively mid-level ending pop (5000 or so) if your citizens are going to be particuarly powerful (blind cave ogres for instance i toyed with) they won't spiral out of control or murder your lag with existing races (which preferably your race should smush quick)

[preferences/jobs/settlement sites & types + ethics: whatever you want or plan to use (i applied artwork values to my mixed race blind ogre civ once as a sort of in-joke/challenge on the basis that they can't see and therefore make terrible engravings and embellishments)]
[Positions: area to tread carefully around, this is a good reason for worldgen crashes, establishing site only roles is recommended and i would highly recommend trying to set your outpost liason to be your intelligent creature type (they can be elected if your races have a low lifespan to cycle them out, i have elected ones on my goblin playthough so im not stuck with the same person) avoid mayoral roles and druidic roles because these incur crashes and keeping broker roles the same stops issues with the trade depot]

The game will collect these and scatter the settlements with single race in each site (so ogre towns and troll towns but no typically mixed settlements), but because trolls and ogre's don't speak, everyone will be hostile to you (embarks will be random chance to spawn with ogres or trolls as citizens, rerolling for your intelligent race or having intelligent common domestics to suppliment is advised - for the purposes of roleplay i suggest hobgoblins or some kind of typically servant race, ensure they have no [PET] tags but carry [COMMON DOMESTIC], squeaky voices are optional and you may opt for strange moodage or other tags just to make things interesting [prone to rage/alcohol dependent etc] this will also let you take them with you en-masse for a slave-force at 1 point each (unless you modify pet-value)

EDIT - Scratch that bit. Im thinking of the time i had my raws jumbled up and it enabled animal men citizens on embark. Though that was sweet, the incurring strangeness of everything else was not.

I forgot to seal up the 2 z layer high caverns properly, meaning that one of my citizens got mauled by bats that flew over my walls and traps, quite a notorious bat fellow it struck down my mechanic and presumably beat up a troll to within a inch of its life.

Hi. As it may be observed, [PET] is the big crutch that is needed surrounding a lot of fortress UI, not least the animals screen,

Take this for instance. Without pet, every animal you bring along be it a pack animal or mount, is entirely restricted to embark specifications and wholly unusable in a time of need such as dire starvation, its meat and bones cannot be collected, and generally it may create a lack of space. It is also in some manners of the word unrealistic, intelligent (or slow-learning) beings for instance are not particuarly made to be doting cattle (unless that they are) and applying the 'unavailable or uninterested' terms similar to cats greyed out to disable use without RAW fiddling would help fit in with the sense of independence as a thinking being (unless we are talking about slavery but thats a topic of more discussion)

I suggest therefore that the regular [PET] tag becomes elevated in the same league as [PACK_ANIMAL] and other tags favorable to preferences on embark with [PET_EXOTIC] remaining much the same, with additional alternative tags determining whether they are trainable or not and other specific details (since [not butcherable already exists])

One such suggestion that comes to mind is [ANIMAL_TRAINER:YES/NO] as a fixed tag applied to all living things that applies training to a animal even if it has no tags with butchering/gelding perks.

> This may raise a opportunity to bring back revised dungeon keeper nobles via example tags of [ANIMAL_TRAINER:YES][DUNGEON_KEEPER:NO] (meaning that yes this creature can be tamed and slaughtered, even if it has no tags, and no this animal does not require the on site presence of a dungeon keeper to orchestrate or firsthand if required and solely proceed with taming themselves)

> Animals with combined roles ie: donkeys ([PET & COMMON DOMESTIC & PACK ANIMAL etc.]) may well be complimented by caravans bringing tamed examples of single role animals (and a general castration of [PET] & [PET_EXOTIC] tags across the board in non-relevant areas such as certain underground creatures not associated with affection)

> taking the example again  ANIMAL_TRAINER:YES would also be tied up to what tags already exist on the animal, with [EVIL] and [GOOD] allowances taken into consideration to what preference entities can access them in exclusivity. For example, a blind cave ogre might be set to ANIMAL_TRAINER:YES but all entities without access to [EVIL_CREATURES] may not tame it, avoiding messy instances where innapropriate leaders trapse around and historically tame 'all the wrong things'.

> It sets up dwarves to become less upset about the death of animals purely destined for a sole purpose in life such as mounts particularly, and also sets up the stage for mounts in the future being individual entities (thinking of dwarves on conveniently sized tiny Mongolian steppe horses the size of ponies) rather than a currently pointless tag thrown on. (Emotional bonds like war trained assigned pets are to be expected but are circumstantial, no theatrical epics about war-dralthas please, though it'd make good reading i guess.)

> Less pet graves, hallelujah. (On a serious side note, might also open the doors to butchering stray animals after death if they don't have [PET] tags or pet-owner relationships that might trigger objection to such a act)

> Pure ANIMAL_TRAINER:YES tag *domestication* levels begin around the same level as [PET_EXOTIC] for reference if they are not in the immediate settled biome/area of access to your civ unless [PET/PET_EXOTIC] affects it otherwise.

This would hopefully remove a lot of issues surrounding animals as a whole.

Feedback would be appreicated  Thanks for reading

Have you tried burrowing your kea-women? It should work in the latest version (40.06) in addition to rounding them up and pasturing them back into their rooms/(pitting them?) in order to keep them there.

If burrowing works on trolls, it should hopefully be fine for your own fortress. Egg collection is more of a issue of concern unless you're managing it carefully and dumping unfertilized eggs onto closed link stockpiles. Your method is somewhat interesting, im trying to experiment with harpy breeding personally for my flying crossbow squadron so this is a nice comparison.