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Messages - Blood_Librarian

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1531
You keep desisting my revision ont he current version of Athena by the usage of "It's an AI" counterargument even though it's not an AI right now, and it's really frustrating.

I legitimately don't see how giving Athena a personality makes it a better combatant, or at least a better combatant then the revision I have put in instead of yours.

1532
snip

Potential conflict in how the system functions: This is for including new or isolated systems, preemptively making including foreign systems easier. It Makes non-Athena Systems into Athena systems easier.  It's kind of like how even though every nerve is part of the brain, not every nerve does the job of the cerebellum.
System Drift:This expands on the effects of Isolated systems, explaining it more in depth. Not. A. Repeat.
Chain of Command: Or: "We dedicate nodes to certain tasks with clearly defined roles."
Vulnerability:Oh, because having multiple security layers between one network and another TOTALLY doesn't decrease vulnerability? It gives more chances for the interception of hostiles because there are multiple borders between a theoretical breach and critical systems, instead of having the entire network being exposed from the breach point.  I am thinking of the network breach from alocal point, not from the ENTIRE network itself, IE the local units that it can individually sabotage.  This is also assuming that they can go around breaking the network with he digital equivalent of a machete. They may be able to do some damage and break or otherwise subvert the system if they put effort into it along with captured units; By placing the group system into action, there can be security systems and networking control between more risk adverse units so as to prevent risks. (Eg, A hacker using a captured ground drone won't be able to modify critical IFF information on the tank  without red flags being lifted.)
One-Path System:Oh Really?
Code: [Select]
The already capable Athena is now an even more fearsome foe. The integration of a form of neural network has allowed for her to 'learn' on a far more advanced level. This hasn't had a massive effect on her accuracy against standard foes, but she can quickly identify evasive tactics and compensate for them. It has also improved her target-acquisition to the point where human intervention is not really necessary. Not only that, but by feeding her data on the Cuttlefish's movement, she has developed her own evasive maneuvers. They aren't substantially better than human- but that's due to a lack of processing power on a single Cuttlefish. Put several Cuttlefish together, and Athena's 'intelligence' increases. The more ships in the fleet, the better she handles them.
Code: [Select]
TAthena really isn't a massive step up from Cerberus, techwise. She's just substantially more well made.
Securely encrypted intership communication and robust onboard computers integrate seamlessly with any sort of sensor you care to plug into the system. Currently, that only consists of our basic radar, and visuals. Since the system would be a bit lacking with only the basic radar, we put a little bit of effort into souping it up- our radar is now slightly more effective.
Athena can easily distinguish between enemy ships, friendly ships, and pieces of rock- and with basic learning abilities, will quickly integrate new information into herself, meaning the appearance of an unidentified ship will not faze her for long. She relays all this information to the crew through a basic holographic projector*, allowing them to pick priority targets for her to fire on (though she will attempt basic threat analysis herself without input, and choose targets based on that).
Her targeting abilities are exceptional, and we predict that her accuracy against Odin-esque targets should be around 90% (at medium range), and about 66% against the smaller and faster Lokis (which compares very favourably to the Cerberus System). She can also coordinate fire from multiple ships/turrets to 'box in' more agile foes, leading to all-but guaranteed hits.
She also has a nice voice and artificial personality- not anything like actual AI, but it raises the morale of the crew somewhat to hear Athena talk.

*We checked in with Moira Libum to see if she had any holographic technology. She was asleep at the time, and remained so for the 18 hours we spent poking around her home. We found nothing useful for us on this occasion. Fortunately, the local library was more forthcoming, and we were able to throw together a primitive system.
Both those texts from the GM Never mention that its an AI. None of the revisions or designs emplaced on it make it an AI. It is a smart network that learns. That's it. Unless somehow that's the same thing, then the revisions I have given push it to form a Smart Network that consists of several smaller smart networks. This segmentation is designed to make the network able to handle things besides spaceships besides "Make it into one network and cross our fingers." The Subsystems that handle creativity and innovation are vaguely defined, and that makes them inherently inferior to a system which is defined specifically, simply because I can't pick out their flaws. (The machine learns because it can! versus The machine learns by testing with experimental Subgroups!)

I am NOT making up problems that "Don't and Wouldn't exist". I am pointing out problems that can exist, but just because they would only happen by BAD ROLLS doesn't mean they shouldn't be preemptively fixed so that only problems that would be less disabiliating would appear instead. Why are we risking major flaws (inability to bring in foreign networks) simply because they would only happen on a bad roll? This is substituting the problems that we don't want to happen with problems that we can let happen or are beyond our control.



If you had looked at the title, I had put "Revision/Design", as I was not completely sure which one would make more sense.

The Personality matrix does not give enough benefit(Lets Crew interact with the AI slightly better) when what we have is sufficient. I would support a revision if it was to implement it into our society on a widespread scale before we commit to the plainly banal idea of making a SmartNetwork/Artifical network into something that can pretend to be human slightly better.

Furthermore, I would plan to push away all revisions and upgrades to AI and possibly orbital related systems until we can push the ground better.

Much more efficient and robust then a meaningless "upgrade" that would barely do anything.

1533
Right now we should focus on tactics, the design/revision I posted earlier is not for the tactics phase of the arms race.

Will we have additional ships built or are the ones in the field all we have?


Quote from: Vote Plan
Plan A - dockyard (1) : Andrea, Blood_Librarian


1534
In the discussions I've had in the discord, it came to attention that there are plans to emplace Athena into other theaters, such as ground forces, the industry, and perhaps other places, I propose a robust system to make sure that it would function in a manageable and efficient way.

The current system we have the entire network be one system.  Every individual piece of equipment assists by "donating" its processing power to the center, and works together with every other piece of equipment/node/etc to be smarter. The immediate group theoretically cannot communicate eight others, not in immediate range for more power intensive problems, but they could still operate independently, just not as powerfully. They also pool their supposed knowledge together, so the more they become, the more "skilled" they become.

This can be prone to several problems, although currently, they are all theoretical, I'll list them below, and I will add to the list as it comes by
  • Potential conflict in how the system functions: if two networks separated for a period of time come together; The way they run could have changed drastically, specializing towards the systems that they run and nothing else, I don't list HOW they could change because I assume there are multiple ways of running a Futuristic AI network that can be better at certain tasks than others at the minimum of Structure ( Look up types of LAN Networks; Ring, Star Mesh). This is assuming that not only is it more efficient to run certain networks in different configurations, the systems themselves would be fundamentally specialized towards different tasks (the tasks they were designed to do as part of a collective). (One may act as a weapon platform, another may relay orders, while another processes Strategic level intelligence) which would require different networks based upon that system.
  • System Drift: This goes back to the conflict in how a system functions. If a Network of systems is hypothetically separated, they may over time evolve into something fundamentally different than to what we have, which may cause incompatibility to our overarching network. We cannot assume that they will be compatible by default unless we force them together. This is assuming that the system is not currently designed to assimilate relatively exotic systems without any chance of malfunction, permanent knowledge loss or inefficiencies..
  • Chain of Command: From what I gather, The system is not designed for "individuals" to exist. Not individuals in the sense of thinking beings, but systems "individualized" for a role. This means that there could be a potential conflict where information could be sent multiple times or relayed to the wrong systems. This is assuming that the System does not correct itself and is smarter then I am giving it credit, but I know for a fact that it is not a General AI, Yet. Please don't say "Its an AI" and throw the argument away, since I am assuming that just like a human mind, It is not able to multitask effectively enough to micromanage every single "node" to be an efficient system, because it has better things to do; It would be far better to just build an efficient protocol in the first place.
  • Vulnerability: If the system experiences significant loss to the unit operation or even hostile attack in the form of info warfare, the entire network is at risk, with the potential of the entire network either failing or being subverted. It is also possible that with a distributed network losing a large portion of its units, critical knowledge may be lost on a large scale if certain units are lost. If it gets hacked by the foreign power(s), the entire network could be exposed to their ilk, even if it is an AI system.
  • One-Path System:Simply put, the system does not appear to experiment with alternate or otherwise purposely commit to changed "personality" or operative procedure as well as it could do. This could be accomplished by allowing some systems or a subgroup of the entire network to temporarily experiment with a different layout than the rest of the system. As far as I can tell, this is impossible to commit under our current system since it is not designed to commit to such a task.

I propose that we commit to several changes to the Athena Network, namely to address the issues listed previously.

Revision/Design: Athena SubStructuring
This changes the Athena system by giving it three separate layers of structure, These are now fundamental to the system. The Composition of these structures, however, can be changed as is how connected they are to another Group/SubGroup/ Individual. This also consists of the proliferation the Athena Network onto every available system we have IF it is a design.

0. The Athena Network: The entire network is connected together, If deemed needed by the network, the groups/etc can be so interconnected that there might as well not be any significant distinction to them or only through the minimum of being able to request information from one another, but the ENTIRE broad network is a Meshed system. Every single Group is connected together, at least slightly.
1. Group Layer: The Athena Network is divided into distinct, whole groups of systems that run in the same Network Theatre. This means that groups of systems (Void Military, Void Logistics, Void Industry, Ground Military, Etc) will operate in the same overarching network, and will share group level information that everyone in the entire network needs, or work together for strategic level thinking and planning. This partially solves the Vulnerability problem, as it means another later of networking and security that a potential intruder has to access before they can acquire production secrets that allow us to produce our equipment. This also increases the efficiency of the system, as only relevant data will be stored in these groups. These groups will self-determine how each subgroup and slash or individual connects to one another, along with their priority in their messages and will also distribute "imprints" to other systems that can receive it. Imprints will be discussed in the Individual layer. Right now Athena, as it is in its current form, would fit in as a single group, With subgroups of fleet.
2.Sub Group: These subgroups are where information and processing power is shared on a more local level, or where critical information is stored behind additional security or other specialized roles that emplaced onto more than one "node". This also allows experimental organizational patterns, network structure, security/ "Software" tests can be fielded without risking the entire network, as its specifically designed to allow the system to self-innovate along with considerations in terms of long-term stability and structure. This allows anything from groups of Uranium Centrifuges to harmonize together, Laser Point defense systems on a starship to target the same place, and everything in between.  Subgroups require a MINIMUM of two units, otherwise, they are simply under the main group as an "autonomous" unit. One Unit can be under multiple groups (Scout, Infantry, Experimental, etc) If required, adding or removing groups is designed to be very fluid and easily done, limited by the information transfer of the necessary knowledge that the subgroup requires. There can be Subgroups within Subgroups
3.The Individual: Each individual is programmed with a very base level set of "preferences" in their day to day operations, with a slight range of preferences towards certain tasks and "Mental" processing. In the scale of the entire network, this acts as the overall "Personality" of the chosen Group/SubGroup. If a query to an entire subgroup/group where Personality based ont he Imprint gets to show is given, Each available Unit answers, and the answers of all machines are composited, and then outputted. This is how divergent thinking is both reigned in and able to be given to the systems, as it gives a chance for potential shifts in thoughts as the base units can learn from each other as well as other information. Imprints are basically the set of values that the unit in question has, and is often overridden periodically with superior imprints founded by hard won experience. Imprints are inherently different for different systems, A imprint for a theoretical spaceship will not fit on a tank or an industrial centrifuge. Worryingly, the Network can and will "weld" these values onto a different system for testing purposes. In one particular instance, this has resulted in a Laboratory Kitchen unit with the mental imprint of a starship astronavigation computer, which promptly self-terminated. Systems with more overall power in their processing or otherwise more access to equipment will have a stronger pull in what to do then a lesser machine in (sub)groups/networks.

How is this better than our current system?

It provides Security, Durability, and function while being more efficient with an increased ability of self-learning and innovation, and it is also distinctly similar to the system of our government if our system of government was less like a system of government and more a tactical smart network.

The Security is given two-fold. The most obvious fact is that there are multiple barriers between a theoretical subversion of one of our individuals and ALL our individual systems. There is a significantly increased amount of data checkpoints that could be placed than as one permeable layer. It's not likely that our AI could get subverted as a whole, but individual units could fail, and certainly, more could follow if they attempt it. It also provides "structural" security, in the event of large-scale casualties, as large-scale number loss poses less risk in lobotomizing the network (Violent network failure due to nodes failing to communicate resulting in a paralyzed system.) Because it is likely that only Subgroups would die in whole scale numbers, (A squad of 7 getting shelled, a daring fleet squadron getting destroyed, An industrial accident taking out all the alcohol fermenters, etc.) While the larger "Group" network will still be relatively whole.

The Athena system will also be more durable, largely because of the previously mentioned number loss issue. Where it really shines is that it becomes more of a smarter, tactical/strategic network then what it originally was. Without the gigantic task of having to mesh with any non-similar system at any time, the system will be less prone to issues relating to connection failures or exotic systems, because they will be connected at a "Higher" level, rather than from system to system. (Kind of like how multicellular life work.) It is also more readily able to handle exotically structured networks or other systems, as they can be neatly categorized and kept in their state in a subgroup or even their own group if required.

To note, Although this is sectionalizing and "dividing" the Athena network, The network will still have the exact same resources and intelligence that it would normally have, it just organized more sensibly. All the computers are still connected in some way shape or form, and the AI can change how it is connected together specifically. Every system in the network can still pool together to solve a gargantuan problem if they can, but inefficient systems and irrelevant data are either pruned and sent to the proper  Group or sent to the Archives back on the homeworld. Athena can still act as a single system, but its separate parts can act as well.

1535
I think if we are gonna be creating a chemical concoction, @Funk , It will have to be a revised edition of either Spice or Fury, but I think what we should be striving for isn't injectable concoctions, but great vats that would turn a man into something else... something Perfect.

Quote from: Boats
Division of Biological Manipulation: (2) Shadowclaw, Blood Librarian

1536
Forum Games and Roleplaying / Re: SPAMKINGDOM#: King Cyl I of Methiant!
« on: December 01, 2017, 01:12:49 pm »
Burn the Heretic.

1537
In an era of infinite war, where conflict is eternal, who makes sure that the Infernal Eternal Stalin keeps his bloodshed to the enemy?

These are the questions we have to ask.

1538
Forum Games and Roleplaying / Re: SPAMKINGDOM#: King Cyl I of Methiant!
« on: November 30, 2017, 01:19:45 pm »
B

1539
BANE OF ARK RIFLES, BIG INTO EXPLOSIONS.

BANTER

1540
Quote
Stonefish: (0):
Athena's spear (2): joha4270, andrea
Hephaestus Synthesis (2): ChiefWaffles, Pirate joke
Emergency Maneuvering Thrusters (0):
"Groundhog" Light Utility Vehicle (1): 3_14159,
Athena-robust learning (3): chiefwaffles, andrea, Blood_Librarian

1541
The Refinery

A code name for a utterly massive, gargantuan construction solely consisting of dozens of factories, a borehole straight downwards along with intake pipes for Thermal Water, Oils and other products with dozens of other resources available for a centralized and massed production of almost any chemical or resource we require, currently staffed by the maddest and slash or most insane factory workers we have, due to the fact that the amount of smog that it produces tinges the sky to a sickly brownish yellow. Screams regularly echo from the attached prison camp as horrific experiments and their sordid creations churn in conditions that can be uniquely described as scientific and [hospitable]. Gasmasks and anti-chemical warfare gear are required in the inner areas of the Refinery. The Refinery scales all the way into the sky with smokestacks and deep underground with liquid storage tanks and the machinery required for its day to day operations. It is expected to grow bigger every year.

Quote from: The Vote Box
The Refinery (1): Blood Librarian

1542
First draft of a similiar flag that Waffle helped me set up.


1543
Forum Games and Roleplaying / Re: SPAMKINGDOM#: King Cyl I of Methiant!
« on: November 29, 2017, 02:22:48 pm »
B We cannot afford this kind of thing.

1544
Quote from: ebox
Stonefish: (0):
Athena's spear (1): joha4270
Hephaestus Synthesis (3): ChiefWaffles, Pirate joke, Andrea
Emergency Maneuvering Thrusters (0):
"Groundhog" Light Utility Vehicle (2): 3_14159, Blood_Librarian

1545
An edge

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