Bay 12 Games Forum

Obviously we need to help relieve the spiritual burden.  Confession is a great way to do it - and if citizens confess the sins of others, they are doing their part to save their soul, too!

Food:
(1) Continue all boats fishing: Cnidaros (can this be a default action?)
(1) Return to full rations: Cnidaros

Coal Mining Expedition:
(1) Send 56 people (including mechanical expert) with all tents and coats, two week's rations in backpacks and sleds to carry them if needed, and 10 rifles with ammunition to defend themselves against shoggoths: Cnidaros
(1) On the journey, rotate who gets to sleep inside and outside the tents: Cnidaros
(1) Once they get there, half to build igloos, the other half to begin coal mining immediately: Cnidaros
(1) Dispatch a return party with the tractor and sled to haul back whatever coal they've mined in one week's time: Cnidaros

Shelter:
(1) Build more pit-igloos and smooth floors: Cnidaros
(1) Continue lining igloos with wooden insulation: Cnidaros

Religion:
(1) Church of Kot, Hold Konfessionals: eS, Cnidaros
(1) Build a Chapel of Kot out of the whale's skull and ribcage, using wooden planks to fill in the gaps: Cnidaros
(1) Relocate the gun/ammunition stockpile to the pit-igloo, put a door over it and guard it with a DEATH squad: Cnidaros

Could we change it so the Archer 2 has double hulls? I wil vote the lock then. I just feel it will just better that way.

Quote from: Cnidaros on August 09, 2018, 01:51:02 pm

I like how your worst-case for the missile sub is that the launchers don't work, while your worst-case for the torpedo sub is that it can't submerge or outright sinks. Biased much?

And you're not addressing MoP's point, where he wanted to spend two design actions on the Sobriety instead. Arguing that the Sobriety is going to be the same difficulty is ridiculous, it literally asks for everything the Archer II has, and the VLS cells, and some useless bells and whistles like the IR detection.

In terms of cost, the Archer II again outright wins, given that the Sobriety carries multiple Expensive Saltseekers and will be Expensive or Very Expensive itself.

Also, you want the missile sub to do submerged combat? Yeah, given the Saltseeker is our very first ASM ever, I'm sure the GM will give us a free pass on launching it submerged - something that, in the real world, again took years of engineering to even pull off. And they had working subs to test with, even.

In case you have forgotten, even if we conquer the jungle only the VVF goes down in price (from VE to E) and we still have to cross another sea to get into Cannala proper, while if we lose naval advantage the Cannalans are two turns from outright winning the game, as well as denying us the possibility of winning via nuke via Vlanlados. Navy isn't going to go away, sorry to burst your bubble.

The worst case is that the missiles don't work because even if it can't submerge to employ its torpedo tubes it would still be useful as a missile frigate, so I was applying the outcome that either: the sub's main weapon doesn't work OR it can't submerge to both subs. My point is that if your design has buggy torpedoes or submerging, it's useless, but our sub only has a single point of failure which would make it completely (emphasis on completely) useless which is the missiles.

The missile sub is certainly more difficult, I'd prefer it had no torpedo tubes or IR sensors at all to save on cost and complexity, but relative difficulty isn't important, what's important is the category. The question is if one is going to be Hard or the other Very Hard. I'm saying we don't know and that vertical launch missiles and IR isn't going to put it into a different category of difficulty. but I still think they'll be in the same category of difficulty. I don't have any way of proving it though without a verdict from Sensei.

Aren't you advocating for a transition to missile subs next turn anyways? If that's the case then the expense in the end is the same, at a cost of another action which doesn't need to be spent. I'll agree that the Archer II would be cheaper but it can also be more easily countered. Our enemy has expensive, large cruisers and aircraft carriers, an expensive or very expensive missile sub fills the role just fine.

The Sobriety has two torpedo tubes. I didn't mean to imply we should have underwater launch capable missiles (but I don't think it's a very complicated idea when we already have such sophisticated missile technology).

That's why I want a missile sub, it's a difficult threat to answer quickly and it gives us space to make designs that will win the land war.

But if the Sobriety rolls crap then we have two sunk designs whereas we could do the Sobriety now, and we still have the ability to throw another design (+revisions) down on it should it roll poorly enough. That way we either get Sobriety on a good roll, or get experience even if it's crap, plus have the basic design of what we're going for already accomplished.