Bay 12 Games Forum

I think Dwarves need some time to think over some things (meetings with counseling manager?) to get their moods changed.
Still from my observations, some yelling at manager Dwarves stopped being distressed after a while without any noticeable changes to their personality. Still very depression prone.

On other side 25 banished and 6 put down under atom smasher, were not so lucky with the same cure (no hauling + 1 bolt bone per 1 month).
Focus suppose not have any impact on depression and still, it has an impact on stopping many Dwarves from spiraling down the depression well.

What I did:
I have requested 19 workers. My messenger was an administrator hauler turned into an elite swordsmen in my professional military squads. Basically hauler without profession.

What happened:
All 19 requested workers arrived with profession "merchant" and refuse to work. I can't assign them even to military squads. The messenger, who was impossible to be removed from hauling before, now refuses to do anything but non-stop "idle" in yellow or "socializing!" in bright purple color.

Does this feature works for any one? If it works for anyone, then please tell:
- What profession of messenger you had?
- Did the messenger ever got back to work, after that mission?

Quote from: PatrikLundell on March 25, 2020, 08:05:23 am

Quote from: Shonai_Dweller on March 25, 2020, 07:40:30 am

Quote from: Sarmatian123 on March 25, 2020, 07:33:33 am

Some had cloths rotting from them though, as I didn't manage to change all 180 of them with military menu. Mittens, caps, vests, robes, tunics and shoes are banned from my fortress. Selection in military menu is too indistinguishable and too tiny for scrolling 180 Dwarves.

Why do you need to put 180 dwarves in the military just to have them wear clothes? I don't think that's actually a thing, is it?

If you decide to use a play style that does not produce certain clothing layers DF does not provide specific support for that play style to ban all usage of the forbidden layer clothing. A possible work around is to draft everyone in squads and use replace clothing, or else they'll keep the old things until they rot off or can be replaced by items scavenged from invaders (possibly before the player stops them from grabbing replacements). [Trying to explain a reason for having an issue: it's not my play style].
It can be noted that providing all clothing layers possible maximizes the number of happy thoughts dorfs get from acquiring new clothing (at the expense of a rather massive amount of old clothing to deal with).

Fascinating!
One for the suggestions forum I'd think rather than this thread on stress balance.

Suggestions for any fixes in military or in cloths go now in thousands. People had years to write them and they kept doing that tediously. I would have nothing new to add there. Any fixes in military or cloths will be after kitchen been dealt with, which will happen well after map rewrite and magic system. Plus DF could use GPU support at least for Floyd-Warshall algorithm, which handles path finding in linear time. About Floyd-Warshall I could write a suggestion. How to install OpenCL for example (do not touch the 700$ expensive trap SDK from the Intel's site!). With code and some pictures to show time measurements. With math, though this is simple ordo and theta comparisons.

Back to topic.

For some reason cases of depression among my military (60 military and 120 civilian) is far smaller then among civilians. The only difference is, my civilians had rotting cloths (caps, mittens, shoes).

When I started to play, I ignored all petitions for new crafts locations. I think I remember a Dwarf going into tantrums and depression over it, as soon as I started sending Dwarves outside into rain after wood for clear glass making. I restarted of course. All locations got their master steel mechanism in a lever and init_d.txt got correction for no-profession migrants. Not bad thing though. I can hand-pick profession according to their aptitudes, so they skill 2x-5x faster then usual crafts-dwarves. Though you can't expect that from any new player, can you.

I've exiled her, by the way. I didn't want to micromanage her constantly and have a 70-dwarf fort to take care of as well. Oh well.

Next embark on the same map. The third not-scripted migrants' wave. This will be FUN!
Unless, you didn't exiled her to a location, just banished her to wild. There is a bug. Banished to wilderness are often returning. This will be FUN!
I was expelling too. However, when you send haggard, depressed and harrowed 25 Dwarves away, then you start thinking about future migrants' waves.
Now, in my fortress every tantrum or slipping into depression earns after two weeks a master quality slab. It takes as much place as coffin though.
Rain is way too much for my overly nervous Dwarves to deal with, to add sight of dead bodies of sentient beings there as well.

One issue with royal jelly is how to make chefs in kitchen to actually use it.
Even once, we patched with special stockpiles issue of food stored in bags and jugs inside barrels (flour and sugar bags) and bins (jelly jugs),
which makes their contents invisible for cooking. Given everyone has "no mix" in orders menu turned on. (By default it is not. Nice trap Toady!)
It seems cooking has iron priorities in what is getting cooked first and only first.
One priority has to be worked entirely away, before another priority is even considered for cooking.
There is no randomness. It seems most dishes almost always contain only one food.
So forget about cooking lavish meal with 1 dog meat, 1 garden grass with 1 dwarven wheat flour and 1 spice of sorts (there's no spices in DF yet? ).
Combining ingredients coming in small "1" batches with "8" home-grown plants for example, so their satisfaction bonus lasts longer,
seems almost impossible without tedious managing of 4 1x1 food stockpiles (next challenge for automation to have beside 20 auto-stills also 200 auto-kitchens?).

1. Seeds (At the beginning of embark unlucky priority for all those, who forget to forbid cooking all seeds from start. Nice trap Toady!)
2. Meats-> Fishes-> Plants and Fruits (Basically basic fresh food for all cooking and eating purposes.)
3. Processed food like flour, sugar and (if jelly's tool-stockpile is closer kitchen then stockpile for flour, and sugar!) _royal_jelly_.

So, basically all foods except flour and sugar have to be disabled for kitchen.
The only way to efficiently empty royal jelly jugs without adding besides "empty water bucket" another process for screw press.
Imho, this information should be mentioned on wiki both with royal jelly information and in kitchen with cooking.
Kitchen is a cumbersome business, as farming and bee-keeping.

You can not expect a new player of Dwarf Fortress to enjoy automating mead brewing and automating royal jelly cooking without this vital information about these priority linkages.

Also, if it wasn't about this guaranteed depression issue in Dwarves none would bother with cumbersome kitchen mechanics. Same meal of dog meat and plump helmets for everyone year around! Though as fulfilling needs fixes only focus, the question is why highly focused Dwarves spiral down in depression less, then unfocused ones? Depression is not caused by (= focus) needs, right? At least !Science! so far claimed. So, why this correlation? Is focus the issue causing depression to spiral down, besides main moods' alterations from rain and dead bodies and such?

Missing needs are not causing stress, they're causing distraction. Unless you've some evidence to dispute the research which people have posted previously.

So "friends & family" is just distraction, while the stress is a result of some angry argument or rain annoyance?

Then explain to me, how focused Dwarves with fewer distractions, can overcome the down-spiraling stress from "annoying rain" and "angry argument", at least temporarily, when those with more distractions fall down the stress' well like a heavy stone. Is this also in that research explained, I would like to know.

For now, as I see this stress issue, the issue is that fulfilled needs do not last long enough and the only thing bringing Dwarves from brink of suicide squad under atom smasher is... no hauling and 1 bone bolt per month. Their "distracting" needs can be fixed and not for focus (but maybe also fo focus), because then and only then they might unwind the stress and recover.

Maybe this is something with last few 0.47.02-0.47.04 versions, after Toady made it possible to recover from stress? So you maybe need that focus to recover now in contrary to old research, when there was no recovery?

Remember needs are needs and stress is stress, the two aren't directly related even if you'll notice some correlation. Satisfy needs to give a dwarf focus (works faster), don't and he'll be distracted (yellow arrow, slow). A dwarf has many needs and prioritises some over others, so you don't need to satisfy them all, a couple will be enough to keep a dwarf from being distracted. Yellow arrow is fairly easily curable (exceot on the occasions that they really want the things you can't actually give them).

Dwarves aren't very good at seeing to their own needs right now though. Needs more work.

Stress on the other hand builds buggily right now due to stacking negative thoughts on corpses, rain, and being away from family and friends and other bits and pieces. Too much, they get the red arrow (time to banish to a quiet hillocks someplace). Can be cured, at least in the initial stages, but again, balance is all out of whack right now (fixes coming in from time to time during Steam development). Some dwarves are more susceptible to stress than others (will mention in their thoughts).

It's certainly better than it was even with the initial fixes in 47.03. Needs more work though.

The point with fixed needs and resulting better focus is to get stressed Dwarves more time to accomplish these missing needs, which are causing the stress.
Though I can not provide unobtainable food, friends and family and such.

This is why depressed, haggard and harrowed are death sentences. These illnesses delete time from Dwarves.

Now, I have 18 types of alcohol. The best mood Dwarves get from drinking alcohol is still content. None gets euphoric. Maybe I should remove temple from drinks' stockpile?

Quote from: Sarmatian123 on March 23, 2020, 06:40:13 pm

...

Code: [Select]

[REACTION:MAKE_SOAP_FROM_OIL]
[NAME:empty water bucket]
...
[REACTION:EMPTY_BUCKET]
[NAME:make soap from oil]
...


Looks like MAKE_SOAP_FROM_OIL and EMPTY_BUCKET need to be swapped.

Not in vanilla game though. Just in a modded game. Playing vanilla games here.