Bay 12 Games Forum

Some time ago, a Pew Survey on religion revealed that 21% of Atheists believe in either a Universal Spirit or in a God.

Then they do not know they definition of atheist. The problem people have is that people seem to attach groups or ideas which have a large majority of atheists behind them to the definition of atheist. Atheist has no other meaning than not believing in god(s). Being rational, logical, left-wing, right wing, libertarian, authoritarian, stupid, smart are not defined under the term atheism.

The reason that Atheism is so strongly tied with ration thought and science is that unseen god(s) is not disprovable and thus believing in it is as rational as believing in anything else we can neither confirm or deny exists. That being said plenty of scientists/rational thinkers are theists whether that be through tradition, a true belief in god(s) or for any number of reasons (the "unlikelyness" of the universe, the fact that humans seem to have a fairly inherent belief in god for the most part or some other evidence or interpretation of evidence lending more likelihood of god(s). e.g a "religious moment", belief in personal connection or a structure of something being a sign).

The problem then is how god(s) are going to be included in DF. If they are observable beings then athiests don't really have a leg to stand on. Whereas if they are meant to be "behind it all" and not directly observable (e.g a thunderbolt being from the thundergod) then athiest just means that they don't believe in a god and might take offense in trying to be indoctrinated  but apart from that other personality traits take over since atheists don't share a universal ethics system (I have fellow athiest friend who I disagree with on almost any cultural/moral issues).

EDIT: Also things like Demons and Magic don't necessarily have to be in conflict with atheism. As long as these things are part of the observable world and have a method by which they work then it's part of the natural world no the supernatural. For example if I were to go to the middle ages with a magnet and a coil of wire and rotate one around the other and produce electricity it would be called magic since there's no immediately observable method by which this happens but it doesn't make it supernatural.

Crossbows:
+Can be used by Urist Mcstupid (Point and shoot)
+Can be used by the fairly weak
+Accurate in short range
+Capability to pierce armour if hit at the right angle and distance

-Long reload times (Winding it back)
-Mechanisms unreliable (Chance of something jamming)
-Inaccurate at long distance
-Heavy
-Damaged much more easily

Longbows (Presumably the elves would make some damn good bows):
+Light
+Very accurate even at long range
+More power and better piercing power
+Fast firing
+More sturdy and reliable

-Almost all advantages relied on skill
-Needs a large amount of strength to pull back and hold bow
-Lots of training needed

This is depending on the time period, obviously crossbows improved but this is generally the state of affairs in the 100 years war 1337-1453 which seems to be around the technology of the time DF was set in (This is also a war where cannons and early guns were trialed)

So crossbows only real advantage is that Urist Schmo can use them. So what makes sense is for crossbows to have a very slow RoF which can only be improved slightly by higher skill (It still takes lots of time to wind up). It should be one of the weakest weapons on unarmoured (Sure you might hurt me if you hit me near a vital organ but if I swing a sword through you I'll rip the whole organ out). It should be one of the easiest wounds to recover from (Unless the bolts/arrows have been specifically designed to stick. Crossbows should be able to be wielded by anyone. They should have a chance of jamming or breaking. They should have a chance of piercing plate at short range but only at short range (within 3-4 squares maybe) and have a chance at getting stuck in chain mail in a similar way to firing through fortifications.

Longbows should be more powerful in almost all aspects but only in the hands of an experience user (anything below skilled should have the user being highly inaccurate). They should have a fairly long range with diminishing accuracy over distance. They should be limited to strong and tall creatures. They should need skill to make but cheap (well cut wood instead of cheaply made mechanisms). They should have a RoF highly dependent on skill level.

Most crossbow bolts over a distance should glance off plate unless they get lucky at hit a vital spot (gaps in the armour). Arrows should glance off armour at long distances, be able to hit weakpoints at medium distance and pierce at short distance. Both bolts and arrows should have a high chance to knock over but not damage armour wearers because of the force behind the projectile. Shields should relatively affective (heighten the probability of a hot glancing off) at long and medium ranges but should be able to be shot past at close range (Unless they are tower shields)

And of course temples would be a great way to start introducing context specific engravings, the engravings in a temple should generally be limited to the images and events related to that religion (No Urist waz here crap, and I don't think the God death would take kindly to bunnies being drawn all over the walls.)

I already posted most for this in another thread but here seems to be the best place for it. This all mainly concerns demands, conflict, conversion and gatherings:

Unhappiness/Demands:
-Once you get a decent-ish following (~10-20?) of a god they'd start demanding a place to meet and worship since personal areas don't suit their needs.
-Not providing for large groups of a religious movement could produce unhappy thoughts and become worse the more followers go without a place of worship (e.g. if you have 30 dwarves all following the same god yet no place to meet they could start a riot).
-Dwarves could get jealous if other religions are being favored far more than theirs (their funding/followers ratio being significantly less than other religions). Ranging from unhappy thoughts, to demands to nobles and strikes all the way up to open riot. Differences should matter too much if they are getting adequate funding anyway (e.g. if all the religions are getting lots of money/buildings they wont complain too much about one getting slightly more)

Happiness:
-Religions should give happy thoughts depending on the amount of people, amount of funding, and personality types/relationships with members of the group. (More people = more sense of belonging except for some dwarves who prefer more "exclusive" groups who like more tight-nit/secretive religious groups. More money/impressive buildings/works of art = more happiness. More friends and family in the group = more happiness/sense of belonging, more charismatic/similar minded dwarves = more happiness.)
-More funding = more converts (If you suddenly a religions of six dwarves has gold plated dinning halls other dwarves would be eager to join. This is balanced by other religions jealousy so you can't push it too far)
-Better leader = more converts (Religious leaders with higher social skills/spends more time with other dwarves/gets along well with other personalities should convert better. This means smaller gathering have the advantage of being more personal)
-Regional religions (Obviously there will be a few variants here and there but most areas have a few major religions which that vast majority conform to)

Religious types (I'm not sure if Toady has set in this in stone yet or not):
-Monotheistic (The God of Mountains, Beer and Moles is the ONE AND ONLY!)
-Polytheistic (My personal deity is the God of Mountains, Beer and Moles but I also acknowledge the existence of the God of Unicorns, Nausea and Elves)
-Secular (Secular dwarves should exist, and maybe even demand funding for equality but I'm not sure what for, maybe beer subsidies?)

Obviously Polytheistic religions will get on the best with worshipers of other gods withing their religion and even other Polytheistic religions. Monotheistic religions wont get on with each other quite as well because they have they believe in their one true god, but they will get along better with Monotheistic religions than Polytheistic ones.
The large conflict will be between the types of religions persuasions Polytheistic tend to be more accepting historically, Monotheistic tend to be strong converters and uniters and secular people tend to try and stay out of the whole affair until someone confronts them. (Though you can have anti-religious dwarves as well as non-religious)

This would be great to implement. Apart from the sheer humor and characterization benefits it would also be an easy way to keep the elves out while letting other civs in.

or perhaps the !Mutant Lungfish!

Freedom!

While I do agree that dwarves are on the artisitc side I think they are highly practical as well, if your going to make wooden bolts for training you don't want to put all your effort in to making masterpieces for them just to be shoot at a target once and then thrown away. It should suit the need best so in this case an bolt which just flies straight would be the most sensible and the dwarf could focus on other work.

I do think if a dwarf doesn't make a work to their maximum abilities in a while then it should be an unhappy thought made something like "was given boring tasks all month". But remember people quantity has a certain quality in itself.

edit2: It might be an idea too to have Mil-dwarves go to and from 'high alert' mode automatically when a thread is present or past, without player intervention.
Just to save on micromanagement. Then again...DF seems to attract mm-addicts.

I think I'm way too tired. I read that as:

"It might be an idea to have miller dwarves to go to and from 'high alert' mode automatically when thread (plant thread) exists in the past or present without player interaction. Just to save on micromanagement, then again Dwarf Fortress seems to attracted addicts of candy coated pieces of chocolate".

Re-reading it I understand what it says, obviously my brain works in weird ways. Why miller dwarves should be alarmed when threads are produced (except when there is player interaction) is beyond me, though I do think many DF players are M&M addicts.