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Messages - Digganob

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46
DF Modding / Re: Can someone walk me through replacing dwarves with another species (0.50.x)?
« on: August 14, 2023, 10:00:08 pm »
Making a new civilization like that isn't too huge of an undertaking, especially if your civilization is going to be quite similar to dwarves already, and if the creatures are derivative of some other one. If your creatures are very unique, that's likely to be the hardest part of making the mod. I tried making a pretty strange creature for use in my own civilization, with several different castes and even magic, but it didn't take too many evenings.

What kinds of things are you trying to do with the mod? Anything specific we can help you with, beyond the modding guide already provided on the wiki?

47
DF Modding / Entity with [UTTERANCES] creatures receiving dwarven names (sometimes)
« on: August 14, 2023, 09:55:10 pm »
My mod entity is producing historical figures with dwarven last names, despite their having no intelligible speech. They entirely lack the [CAN_SPEAK] token, but still have the [UTTERANCES] token, as kobolds do, and yet some of them, seemingly at random, and even at the very creation of the world, have dwarven last names.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

^ The raws for my entity. I think the issue might just have something to do with positions somehow, as even though they don't seem to adopt titles in the course of political careers, they didn't seem to (though I may have just not been paying attention) have any dwarven last names before I added them.

48
DF Modding / Re: Mod Bug with Item Thieves
« on: August 05, 2023, 07:31:47 pm »
Ah I see, I didn't know that. Thanks.

49
DF Modding / Re: Siegers with less armor?
« on: August 04, 2023, 12:50:46 pm »
Interesting. I suppose that does make sense. I was hoping to have it so that, say, humans will usually have chainmail, but only sometimes have breastplates, and I suppose that's not really possible. Perhaps I could make chain mail shaped, then, and buff it otherwise.

50
DF Modding / Mod Bug with Item Thieves
« on: August 03, 2023, 11:19:55 pm »
This is a bug that has to do with modded entities, so I am unsure if it should be posted here or reported as a proper bug.

If you have more than one entity with [ITEM_THIEF], it appears that all entities nearby with this token will send out thieves to rob you at the same time. I have had thieves visit three or four times now, and each time, both kobolds and my modded creatures with [ITEM_THIEF] in their entity raw came at the same time. Interestingly, however, they came as separate little groups, from different edges of the map.

51
DF Modding / Re: STRANGE_MOODS for non-intelligent pets.
« on: August 03, 2023, 09:49:19 pm »
I... don't think that this line of research has been trod, yet. This seems to be something worthy of testing.

First you need to see if they can actually perform labors as livestock/pets. If it is possible, then try making a fort with the dwarves edited so they no longer have strange moods. Then play that fort for a few years with some of the creatures. No strange moods, it's not possible. Is it necessary they should not have [CAN_LEARN]? If not, then try them with it.

However, if you were to make this new creature a new caste as part of the dwarven race, then it may just be possible they can have strange moods. This has an obvious downside of them not being a separate race, of course, and also necessitates them being genderless, as otherwise you'll have servantrace-dwarven marriages, which is really weird... but it may just work, anyways.

The last option is to make them their own entity. Then make their civilization as close to dwarves in values as possible, so they become allies, and inter-mingle, thus allowing them to become citizens in your fort as guests apply for citizenship. Then, make your own little breeding program to marry the creatures so you have a proper class of laborers, similar to breeding animal people for various purposes.

This idea is walking a very thin line between animal abuse and human rights violation.

52
DF Modding / Re: What are the mechanics of the Demonic Fortress? Are we able to use them?
« on: August 03, 2023, 07:06:16 pm »
I don't suppose we're able to re-introduce a site like this, or any other site, are we?

53
DF Modding / !!SCIENCE!!: An ascent from the pit of hubris.
« on: July 28, 2023, 06:12:51 pm »
I have mistakenly posted research which was based upon erroneous raw edits. However, I have returned with truth.

In my work to create a mod of my own, I have come upon the question of how, precisely, castes and their sizes impact the size of armor a civilization may wear.

There are three methods I know which may be used to change the size of a caste in a creature: The use of, CHANGE_BODY_SIZE_PERC, BODY_APPEARANCE_MODIFIER, and BODY_SIZE, all of which must be placed into each caste via SELECT_CASTE.

TEST STRUCTURE:
These tokens are placed instead of the Xs in the following edited tokens of the human creature:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
The goal of the test is for the armor sizing of humans to remain the same, as is verified by whether they may still, upon the following changes, equip wild boar men and hyena men armor, the two animal men which are close enough to human size for them to wear human armor, and vice versa. This is because they are within about seventh of their size. How precisely this range is determined is unknown.

For this test, each caste has been changed to the following degrees: FEMALEs to 35,000, MALEs staying at 70,000, and BIGMALEs being size 350,000. Theoretically, if armor size is determined by the average of the species, determined by each caste size multiplied by its frequency in birth, then this should result in the average of the species remaining 70,000.

BODY_SIZE for the base creature, for all but test four, remains in adulthood at 70,000

TEST ONE:
If BODY_APPEARANCE_MODIFIER is used, with the values assigned as follows:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
The result is no change to the armor sizing of the civilization, and all humans being able to wear their own human-sized armor. FEMALEs, however, as expected, have a hard time wielding anything with one hand. It is unknown if they are completely unable to wield anything with a one-handed size beyond 35,000, as I have found no examples of it in my tests.

TEST TWO:
If BODY_APPEARANCE_MODIFIER is used differently, with the values assigned as follows:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
The result is no change to the armor sizing of the civilization, and all humans being able to wear their own human-sized armor, despite the actual average of the species being higher than should allow the equippage of hyena men helmets, which are sized for 65,000.

TEST THREE:
If CHANGE_BODY_SIZE_PERC is used, with the values assigned as follows (with males being excluded as nothing new is being declared in the raw):
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
The result is that the armor sizing of the humans becomes ~that of a tiger man, with all humans still being able to wear human-sized armor. This can be inferred by the production of various animal men armor until a size either smaller or larger than allowed is reached, and finding the average of these boundaries. This method is not precise, but it does not need to be, as explained later.

More interestingly is that the weight of armor is halved. This too will be explored later.

TEST FOUR:
If BODY_SIZE is used, with the values assigned as follows:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
The result is the precise same all respects to test three, though this method does allow for more precise control over the body size of each caste, as it allows for the precise body size to be chosen, instead of being multiplied from the body size of the base creature.


From these tests, four primary conclusions are to be drawn:

Firstly, the modifying of BODY_APPEARANCE_MODIFIER results in no changes to the average size of a species, nor to the weight of armor. This allows a method to changing the size of a creature's castes without affecting an entire civilization's armor sizes or weights, while still affecting individual caste's size, as is apparent with their ability to wield various weapons with or without both hands.

Secondly, that CHANGE_BODY_SIZE_PERC and the final BODY_SIZE effect the same value, or rather that CHANGE_BODY_SIZE_PERC changes the value of BODY_SIZE with no apparent effect other than a straightforward change to the value of it.

Thirdly, that the armor sizing of an creature is determined by the average of its caste's size, that is to say, the size of each caste at adulthood, divided by the number of castes a creature manifests.

And fourthly, that the weight of armor is determined by the size of the smallest caste of the creature it is sized for. This is made evident also when the armor of ant men is observed weighing only two kilograms, yet being very close to the same sizing as humans'.

There are many interesting uses for these conclusions, as well as yet more interesting tests which may be done using this knowledge. One which would require more knowledge and confidence in the mechanics than I possess is to test whether ant men armor, being lighter than human armor, but of the same sizing and therefore equippable by humans, allows a human soldier to move quicker while wearing it than when wearing regular human armor, and whether the weight of the armor has any influence on its defensive properties.

I will be using these conclusions myself for the creation of a mod involving a civilization of goblins of varying sizes, which are unable to produce any armor of their own, but should hopefully steal some during worldgen from either humans or dwarves to wear themselves. I will likely be utilizing BODY_APPEARANCE_MODIFIER for this, as the larger castes of my goblins will be very large, and so the creation of redundant classes would be necessary in order to balance the size of the species as a whole.

54
DF Modding / Re: Trouble making wooden weapons.
« on: July 26, 2023, 08:42:01 pm »
Quote from: chipathingy on July 26, 2023, 08:13:02 pm
Quote from: brewer bob on July 26, 2023, 03:46:20 pm
I believe it's the FURNACE_OPERATOR token which gives them access to available metal ores. For instance, kobolds don't have picks, but they get access to metals because of that token.
No, it gives access to metals IF they have access to ores.

Digganob, I had a thought that because they live underground they might have access to ores by default?

The mere fact of their default site being CAVE_DETAILED does not appear to result in them having access to ore, however, it has just occurred to me that their "liking" regular caves, and therefore inhabiting them often, may result in their having access to metals. However, this too is apparently not the source of their metal.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

^ The raw of the entity, minus ethics, laws, and banditry for brevity. Removing any required reactants from the woodbar raw seemed to have no effect as well.

Given it's not an issue of location, or an issue of the existence of miners or furnace operators within a civilization, I have no ideas at this point where the issue may lie. I had thought before you came along that this was now a universal bug, which prevented any civilization from having only one metal which they used, but you have proven it's entirely possible.

55
DF Modding / Re: Trouble making wooden weapons.
« on: July 26, 2023, 06:17:49 pm »
Quote from: brewer bob on July 26, 2023, 03:46:20 pm
I believe it's the FURNACE_OPERATOR token which gives them access to available metal ores. For instance, kobolds don't have picks, but they get access to metals because of that token.

I would find that strange because chipathingy's wood elves have that token, and yet they only use the metal which they have a reaction for. I will try testing this out, though.

56
DF Modding / Re: Trouble making wooden weapons.
« on: July 25, 2023, 10:59:05 pm »
Quote from: chipathingy on July 25, 2023, 03:27:41 am
You have club listed twice at the top FYI

It could be the pick? Try removing that and see if it works. If this is still the cavern dwelling race it could just be that bug  where they get metal gear though

Oh yeah I know I've it listed twice, I wanted to make it more common for them to use it, and supposedly listing weapons twice does that. Does it cause any issues you figure?

Just tried removing the pick, and also tried making them tree_city-dwelling to see if them living in detailed caves changed anything (they don't live in the cavern layers if that's what you were saying), but they still made weapons out of anything. I'll see about a granular testing gauntlet to see what precisely is causing the difference between my mod and yours, once I get a chance. Doesn't seem like there's anything much left, besides perhaps small changes with reactions.

57
DF Modding / Re: Trouble making wooden weapons.
« on: July 24, 2023, 11:39:12 pm »
Quote from: chipathingy on July 24, 2023, 05:06:13 am
Whoops, didn't see the raws, my bad. Yeah, that's enough.

Elves don't mine ( no miner profession token), and thus don't have access to metal ores and can't smelt them even if they have the furnace operator labour added to their civ. However metals added to the civ that are created from custom reactions rather than smelted from raw ores and the civ will always have access to it - steel is a great example, dwarves will always have access to steel even if they don't have access to iron.

Come to think of it, they might not even need furnace operating if a different profession makes the bars. I'll have to check. They do need weapon/armorsmithing to make the equipment though

Yeah I double checked with your mod to make sure that your wood elves and their "wooden" weapons were still working with the steam version and they are, and so I tried to replicate what you have done with your mod in my own, and changed the entity raws as follows:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I also tried changing the reactions for my wood bars and weapons to be made in smelters and smithies respectively. I even tried removing wood as a necessary reagent.

However, my civ still makes their weapons out of random materials during worldgen.

I'll see about a more thorough investigation and replacement test later, but do you have any observations or ideas?

58
DF Modding / Re: Trouble making wooden weapons.
« on: July 24, 2023, 12:42:25 am »
Quote from: chipathingy on July 23, 2023, 07:53:47 pm
Are you getting 150 clubs per reaction? I know exactly what is happening
One bar is size 150, and when you're putting the quantity on the reagent line you've put in quantity 1. What is happening is that each club uses 1/150th of a bar, but the reaction uses a whole bar and multiplies the output accordingly

Change the quantity of the bar reagent to 150, and it will use one bar per club. Multiples of 150 for multiple bars

FYI it's easier for others to find errors if you post the whole raw

Also you dont usually need to make reactions for weapon or armor production if they're made of metal. Give the entity the weapon/armor tokens, a reaction to make the metal and the furnace operator and weapon/armorsmith professions and they game will generate the right reactions for you
Check out the Wood Elves in my main mod, they do exactly this. I've given them a "metal" called enchanted wood and it is the only metal they will use. https://dffd.bay12games.com/file.php?id=16721

Ah, that is very helpful. I will go ahead and make the change, and test it once I have the chance.

As for the raws, did you find the raws I spoilered to be incomplete? I only posted anything related to the weapons, the material, and the reactions, but that should be enough to determine any issues with them, right?

Anyways, I have indeed added the reaction to make the "wood" bars to my civ, and allowed the necessary weapons, and while they will sometimes make them out of the custom metal, they will still make them of other things as well. I will look through the raws of your mod when I get some time to get back into this problem, but is there any particular reason or method you can point to as to how it has worked in your mod?

Thank you very much for the help, and any more you may give me. I'm quite grateful to receive the advice of someone so experienced in this subject.

59
DF Modding / Re: Castes, body appearance modifiers, armor and weapons.
« on: July 24, 2023, 12:33:20 am »
Quote from: chipathingy on July 23, 2023, 05:33:58 am
For weapons, it's the BODY_SIZE. It should check the actual size but I think it's bugged

IIRC you can wear armor if the creature it is sized for is within 1/7 of the BODY_SIZE. So a human (70k) can wear armor made for creatures between 60k and 80k. What I  don't know is how this works for castes with varying sizes, like you are describing. Sorry

Are they meant to be a playable race? If no, they might even just show up in correctly sized armor and you won't have to worry about it.

Ah, that 1/7 figure is very useful, thank you, it should help me with some tests.

I have already done some tests, and hope to do more, on the relation of differing body sizes between castes, and the armor sizes of species as a whole.

What I have found so far is that modifying the body size percentage of one caste with [CHANGE_BODY_SIZE_PERC] to be smaller than the other results in armor being sized to the average of the two, as long as they are of equal proportion of the population (how much proportion affects the average I will do tests on later). Interestingly, the wieldability of weapons is also determined by this average. So human, for instance, which are normally capable of wielding halberds, are ALL unable to wield them when one of the two genders is made to be half the size of the other. However, if this is balanced by a third, rarer but much larger caste which is added, and brings the overall balance of the species above the normal human average, then all of the members of the species may wield halberds if they are big enough, one or two handed depending on individual size. Additional testing may be necessary to confirm whether this is calculated correctly for individuals too small to carry even two-handed.

Strangely, if [BODY_APPEARANCE_MODIFIER:HEIGHT:90:95:98:100:102:105:110] is changed for one of the genders so that every value is halved, the smaller caste is able to wield ALL weapons, though, it seems, only multi-grasp. This may be due to a small data pool. Effects on armor size have yet to be researched extensively, though all of species are able to wear their sized armor.

Anyways, I will finish my research on this once I have a good amount of time to do so, and post the findings to the general discussions, and perhaps on the wiki, so that other may make something useful of it. I know I will.

I am currently of a mind to create a caste of very rare, very short-lived, ~spermwhale-sized people which would balance the rest of the species I am creating, such that they are in-between the size of a dwarf and a human on average, thus allowing them to wear the armor of both species, without affecting the actual species very much. Hopefully, within a couple months or so, you will see the fruit of this labor.

60
DF Modding / Re: Siegers with less armor?
« on: July 24, 2023, 12:16:28 am »
Quote from: Eric Blank on July 23, 2023, 04:23:12 pm
Only by diluting the pool of options with less protective breastplate alternatives.

The [ARMOR:X] token changes the likelihood of individuals within an entity wearing armor? Not the entity's ability to manifest the armor at all? Has there been any science on this?

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