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Messages - ToonyMan

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3241
Mafia / Re: MATRIX6- Magic Tric Newbie Mafia 9/9 [Day 1: Hackers Among Us]
« on: June 29, 2021, 10:31:09 pm »
My Reads:

Town
Roden - I think we're both town that found each other, their reasoning for town reading me felt super genuine and they backed off Jack in a natural way
Jack - unless partners with FoU

Weak Town
FoU - Web could have been pocketing Jack so I'll put them in weak town
Magma - hasn't done anything suspicious but I also haven't seen any big town tells, going to be cautious
Bluarian - dropping a bit from a solid town read based on the Jack stuff

Null
Pref - kind of unsure currently, dropping a bit like Blue
Rolan - complete wild card

Scummy
Hedgerow - blatantly scummy, if they're not a hit then I think the two mafia are in Magma/Blu/Pref/Rolan

Other Player's Reads:

Spoiler: BluarianKnight's Reads (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: EuchreJack's Reads (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Prefuzek's Reads (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Magma Mater's Reads (click to show/hide)

FallacyofUrist doesn't have a reads list so I'll use what Webadict had instead for this slot.
Spoiler: Web/FoU's Reads (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Hedgerow's Reads (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Roden's Reads (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Rolan's Reads (click to show/hide)

A Note:
Some of these reads aren't quite the latest but this is what I'm using unless said otherwise.
If somebody is currently voting someone that person will automatically be a strong scum read for them.
I'm using FoU's comments for some of Web's reads.


Town/Scum Scores

This is each player's total read score based on how every other player feels about them.

The points are valued as such:

Strong Town Read = +2
Mild Town Read = +1
Null = 0
Mild Scum Read = -1
Strong Scum Read = -2

Total Points:

The score addition order is (Toony, Bluarian, Jack, Pref, Magma, Web/FoU, Hedgerow, Roden, Rolan).

Magma Mater (+1,+1,+0,+2,+2,+0,+2,+0) = 8

BluarianKnight (+1,-1,+1,+1,-1,+0,+1,+0) = 2
EuchreJack (+2,-2,+0,+1,+2,-2,+1,+0) = 2
Roden (+2,+0,-2,+1,+2,+1,-2,+0) = 2

Rolan7 (+0,+1,+0,+0,+0,+0,+0,+0) = 1

ToonyMan (+1,-1,-1,-2,+1,+0,+2,+0) = 0

prefuzek (+0,+1,-1,-1,+0,+0,+0,+0) = -1
hedgerow (-2,+1,+0,+0,+0,+2,-2,+0) = -1

FallacyofUrist (+1,+0,+0,-2,-2,+0,+0,+0) = -3


Observations:

Magma is almost universally town read.

Bluarian, Jack, and Roden are slightly town read.

Rolan has a point thanks to Bluarian for some reason, basically true neutral though.

I am polarizing with players. I'm thankful for the suspicion though since it makes me a less likely nightkill target.

Pref isn't actually strongly read by any players, could be scummy since it means they might be purposely avoiding heat.

Hedgerow is mostly null or negative reads, similar status as FoU.

FallacyofUrist is almost entirely null read except for the two votes by Pref and Magma recently. Their situation is very similar to eliminating Rolan.

3242
Mafia / Re: MATRIX6- Magic Tric Newbie Mafia 9/9 [Day 1: Hackers Among Us]
« on: June 29, 2021, 04:01:58 pm »
@Roden:
Quote from: Roden on June 29, 2021, 03:15:53 pm
Quote from: ToonyMan on June 29, 2021, 07:49:50 am
@Roden:
I think you're right about Jack. Although I'm a bit miffed my reads are wrong, this definitely looks like a flaying townie now which I suppose is the exact info we need. This makes Web/FoU look better if true although not as cleared.

@Hedgerow:
I don't understand your case against Roden. Also you edited your post again.
In this case, do you think Hedge is our best bet if we were to wagon somebody? I don't think he's playing like a newbie town. I'm trusting you because of your reaction to Jack, you're trying to get him to calm down and stop flooding the thread and you'd have no reason to do that as mafia. Jack feels like a really easy mis-elim at this point.
I think Hedgerow is a better wagon than Jack currently, they're openly scummy but I don't think it's a likely mafia hit. I'm really not feeling Roden/Jack/FoU right now so if we take those players out we're left with Magma/Pref/Blu/Rolan.

That would leave the two mafia inside Magma/Pref/Blu/Rolan. Rolan could be with anyone. Would have to look at the other possibilities.

Do you see anything that looks convincing in there?

3243
Mafia / Re: MATRIX6- Magic Tric Newbie Mafia 9/9 [Day 1: Hackers Among Us]
« on: June 29, 2021, 03:52:48 pm »
@Jack:
Quote from: EuchreJack on June 29, 2021, 02:58:31 pm
Quote from: ToonyMan on June 29, 2021, 11:16:11 am
Stop filling the thread with insane jabbering. I'm serious. This doesn't help.
@Toonyman [Veteran Player]:
Could you please tell me specifically what I'm doing right, so that I can do more of that?
You need to focus your thoughts.

It's hard to follow someone who posts consecutively four or five times and each post is about something completely different.

I do this when I'm posting from my phone because it's easier and I can't format well - so I understand that - but either way you should think to yourself "what am I trying to convey in this post?" before hitting submit. I'm not trying to discourage you from posting, just see whether you can read your post as something effective towards your wincon.

Here is what I do when I'm back at a computer:

1. I read each post that has been made since I was away.
2. I try to understand the what/why each post is saying from that player.
3. I respond to posts with comments or replies directed towards one or more players.

Every once and awhile you should also be checking older posts and taking note of the "process" of each player. This can be daunting when there's a lot of players and it's not something I'm totally an expert at, but keeping track of each player's mental state is critical to scum hunting and why I keep a notepad handy for each game I'm in. People will contradict themselves because it's human nature, but you can definitely pick up on unnatural behavior that could indicate somebody is mafia.

Quote from: EuchreJack on June 29, 2021, 02:58:31 pm
Could you also tell me what I'm doing wrong specifically, so I can do less of that?
If you're town there's technically no downside to what you're doing right now from town's POV as you're making it obvious you're town. But this sort of openness is going to bite back on you hard when you eventually roll mafia. If you are actually mafia then I'm getting owned right now, but I think it's unlikely after witnessing last night and Web's read of you. I don't think you're doing anything super harmful as town besides muddying the waters and drawing attention to yourself.

What I would do in this situation is try to look at how players are reacting to you nearly dying. Are mafia on your wagon? Or are they playing innocent and seem to know you're town unnaturally? Which players?

Quote from: EuchreJack on June 29, 2021, 02:58:31 pm
I mean, you are supposed to helping us play better, right?  And I understand not wanting to help Hedgerow as they are under inspection for being scum, but once you've got a better read on them, could you give them some advice as well?
I want to. I've told Rolan and Hedgerow if they want any advice I can help them. They haven't wanted it.

I don't care if a player is suspected as scum I'm still going to help players in this game if they ask me. I can't help players in this game be good mafia, but I can try to help them be good mafia players.

Quote from: EuchreJack on June 29, 2021, 02:58:31 pm
It seems to me that you're not living up to your Veteran Player responsibilities.  I DON'T mean that as an insult, just my honest impressions.
I think this is the first newbie game I've ever been in. I've never been a mentor before either.

Quote from: EuchreJack on June 29, 2021, 02:58:31 pm
I am trying to post less, and I am probably the only player that needs to post less instead of more.
Try posting less, but with more to say. You don't need to convince people you're town, your actions will.


Newbie Game Philosophy:
I want to win and I'm playing to win, but I don't think I want to take the spotlight from newer players either.

If this game turns into a me/FoU/Blu lylo for example I'm going to cry.

I want to see good town play and good mafia play from the players I've never seen before. I will still play to the best of my ability, but as a secondary goal I want to see someone like Magma/Roden/Hedgerow/Rolan carry the game once I'm dead. I want to see a big convincing case from town on the last mafia member, or even the mafia pulling off a crazy gambit to bamboozle the town.

3244
Mafia / Re: MATRIX6- Magic Tric Newbie Mafia 9/9 [Day 1: Hackers Among Us]
« on: June 29, 2021, 12:26:30 pm »
Quote from: ToonyMan on June 29, 2021, 12:01:06 pm
I don't think Jack being mafia makes sense unless the team is exactly Jack/FoU, but FoU should always be the one eliminated here first out of the two.
Let me expound on this.

Fact:
Web is good at reading Jack, it's likely his read would be accurate. This carries forward into the Web/FoU slot.

Scenarios:
(from most to least likely)

#1
Jack and FoU are town.
Possible.

#2
Jack is town. FoU is mafia.
Possible. Feels slightly less likely than scenario #1.

#3
Jack and FoU are both mafia.
Unlikely. Jack spewed a bunch of reads while presenting a case against Roden who was very unlikely to be eliminated today when under vote pressure instead of say, Hedgerow. This attitude makes no sense from a mafia POV as Jack flipping mafia would invalidate their case they bothered to write on Roden. During last night mafia!Jack would have pushed for a more likely mislynch instead of going for Roden's head. They also voted FoU at one point but the pressure was very light.

#4
Jack is mafia. FoU is town.
Almost impossible. This means Jack had a very convincing town act when on death's row while also Web was wrong about Jack.

3245
Mafia / Re: MATRIX6- Magic Tric Newbie Mafia 9/9 [Day 1: Hackers Among Us]
« on: June 29, 2021, 12:01:06 pm »
@Bluarian:
What has Hedgerow done that is townie?

I don't think Jack being mafia makes sense unless the team is exactly Jack/FoU, but FoU should always be the one eliminated here first out of the two.

Rolan is a complete wild card. Their first post did not feel alarming but I think it means very little towards their alignment.

3246
Mafia / Re: MATRIX6- Magic Tric Newbie Mafia 9/9 [Day 1: Hackers Among Us]
« on: June 29, 2021, 11:16:11 am »
@Jack:

Stop self voting

Chill, relax

Think about the game clearly. Look back at what people have said or not said. Stop filling the thread with insane jabbering. I'm serious. This doesn't help. I'm only town reading you because of the vote pressure that was applied to you during the course of last night as you were very likely to die, but did not act in the way I thought you would as mafia. I don't know how you would play as mafia. If the answer to town!Jack is whether they're spewing like a madman and I don't even need to read their posts because they're going to be pushing inane cases and not thinking clearly then so be it.

I would like to hear more from Bluarian yes so that's a good point.

Rolan7 needs a prod. FoU has time to post more now too.

3247
Mafia / Re: MATRIX6- Magic Tric Newbie Mafia 9/9 [Day 1: Hackers Among Us]
« on: June 29, 2021, 09:07:25 am »
I'm not here to publicly identify whether a player is a PR or not. Why make mafia's job easier?

3248
Mafia / Re: MATRIX6- Magic Tric Newbie Mafia 9/9 [Day 1: Hackers Among Us]
« on: June 29, 2021, 08:56:15 am »
I don't think Roden and Jack could possibly be on a team together.

Vote for an extension while you're here.

3249
Mafia / Re: MATRIX6- Magic Tric Newbie Mafia 9/9 [Day 1: Hackers Among Us]
« on: June 29, 2021, 08:18:05 am »
@Hedgerow:
There's two groups of players that can narrow down the setup on D1.

1. The town PRs, whether there's one or two they can't talk in private
2. The mafia, who can talk in private

Your argument against Roden, from what I can understand, is that they have additional info that vanilla townies wouldn't have. Is this a line worth pursuing solely? You're completely devoted to mechanics and analyzing the setup instead of just scumhunting.

How do you feel about the players? Who's scum for reasons other than possibly having additional knowledge?

3250
Mafia / Re: MATRIX6- Magic Tric Newbie Mafia 9/9 [Day 1: Hackers Among Us]
« on: June 29, 2021, 07:49:50 am »
@Roden:
I think you're right about Jack. Although I'm a bit miffed my reads are wrong, this definitely looks like a flaying townie now which I suppose is the exact info we need. This makes Web/FoU look better if true although not as cleared.

@Hedgerow:
I don't understand your case against Roden. Also you edited your post again.

3251
Mafia / Re: MATRIX6- Magic Tric Newbie Mafia 9/9 [Day 1: Hackers Among Us]
« on: June 29, 2021, 07:40:47 am »
Can you guys vote for an extension?

Extension

3252
Mafia / Re: MATRIX6- Magic Tric Newbie Mafia 9/9 [Day 1: Hackers Among Us]
« on: June 28, 2021, 11:52:54 pm »
I really think an extension should be allowed for Rolan and FoU.

I feel better about the Web/FoU slot. Here's the thing for me though, Web is really good at reading Jack so if Web thinks Jack is 100% town then that means if Web/FoU is town then Jack is almost certainly town. This point is moot if both are mafia however. I strongly feel Jack is scummy here so I suspect the Web/FoU slot heavily or Web is simply wrong.

I still think Roden and Bluarian are very likely town. These are my strongest town reads.

Pref and Magma feel good, but I could see them as mafia partners with someone else still. Magma's case on me is rational and they're fair points. I did give reads not too much long after even though I was still null about Hedgerow and Rolan. I could have waited like I said I would.

Speaking of those two, I do feel better about Hedgerow although it's like 60% confidence. Rolan is a complete lottery and the big reason I want an extension. Rolan could be partners with anyone too, they need to communicate more.

Jack voting the Web/FoU slot likely means they're not both mafia, even though the vote is unnatural as hell I think it makes Jack look worse than FoU. Like Jack is willing to kill FoU here because they're not their partner. That's how I feel about it.

Who would be Jack's partner here then? My top picks would be either Pref or Magma, but I would always want to eliminate Jack here first.

Town
Roden
Bluarian

Pref
Magma

Hedgerow
Rolan

Web/FoU
Jack
Mafia

Although I'm starting to feel it's unlikely Jack would be partners with Web/FoU. It's also unlikely Jack is partners with Hedgerow which Roden mentions.

If the extension doesn't happen I'll be voting Jack before the deadline tomorrow morning. If it's a hammer vote I'll wait until the deadline.

3253
Mafia / Re: MATRIX6- Magic Tric Newbie Mafia 9/9 [Day 1: Hackers Among Us]
« on: June 28, 2021, 06:58:54 pm »
Rolan7 you need to play, at least Hedgerow is here even if they're being weird.

Eliminating a one-poster is basically a lottery and not ideal in my opinion. Especially in a newbie game where I want newer players to be the ones playing the most.

Is there anything that's confusing you Rolan? I can help with stuff here as long as it's towards a town wincon. I'm not sure anybody else needs any guidance besides Hedgerow honestly. Magma and Roden are both posting well.

3254
Mafia / Re: MATRIX6- Magic Tric Newbie Mafia 9/9 [Day 1: Hackers Among Us]
« on: June 28, 2021, 03:10:39 pm »
PR is short for Power Role, or a role that has an ability.

In this setup the possible town PRs are Jailkeeper, Cop, Doctor, 1-shot Bulletproof, and Tracker. For mafia they could have a Roleblocker and that's it.

3255
Mafia / Re: MATRIX6- Magic Tric Newbie Mafia 9/9 [Day 1: Hackers Among Us]
« on: June 28, 2021, 03:07:08 pm »
Quote from: hedgerow on June 28, 2021, 03:04:13 pm
So, let's explain it in an easier way: we probably have a doctor, an investigative role, and a bulletproof townie.
Just to be clear, this isn't possible. Town have two PRs at most.

Do you have player reads at this point?

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