Bay 12 Games Forum

Fair enough.

It's three to shorten so now if me or NQT votes shorten we would be effectively hammering Jim.

I'm too scared to hammer so if NQT is mafia we'll find out shortly.

Me when I write Wall of Text posts:

Day 1 Who Is Also Blue? - or - Why It Matters To Be Popular Under Construction

Day 1 started with nine players:

Jack, NQT, Tric, Pref, Bluarian, Web, FoU, Jim, and Toony.

Jack, Pref, Web, and FoU are dead town.
Toony and Tric are cleared town.
Blue is dead mafia.
NQT and Jim are the potential suspects with Blue.

So who's the mafia partner with Blue? Who is also Blue?

Bluarian's Interactions with Jim

#54 - Jim asks Blue why they're always scum. Blue responds pretty normally.

Very cheeky of Jim to ask this if they're partners with Blue. It's NAI otherwise though.

#144 - Blue's first reads list. I'll get to this later.

#233 - Jim points out that Blue has a lot of people in their scum range, four players (Jack, Toony, Pref, Tric) to be exact. Blue thinks it's Tric/Pref or Toony/Pref or Toony/X.

This looks like a MxM interaction to me. Jim wants their partner to specify their made up mafia team. It's important to note that all four of these scum read players are actually town.

#277 - Jim pushes Blue to pressure Jack and Tric more, both town players. Blue resolves that they think they're simply newbie and thus null. They move their vote to NQT instead, with Pref as the partner. Jim also responds to Blue's question about SKs, how helpful.

Jim could be trying to get Blue to be more aggressive here, it's a convincing act. We know now that Blue is mafia and that the players they were attacking early in D1 were all town, so I wouldn't put it past mafia!Jim to play with Blue in this way. I'll cover the NQT vote in the next section.

#325 - Pref attacks Blue for voting NQT. Blue defends themselves while throwing shade on Toony, Jim, and Pref.

The slight shade throw on Jim is interesting considering that me and Pref were top scum picks for Blue while Jim was a top town pick for Blue. In fact, NQT dropped a lot from null-townlean to their current vote target.

#353 - The most interesting post Blue has made in the game happens here. Currently, NQT is the top wagon with 4 players on them (FoU, Web, Blue, and Tric). Just recently NQT voted Web and Toony followed suit making the vote count:
notquitethere - 4 - FallacyofUrist, webadict, BluarianKnight, TricMagic
prefuzek: - 2 - Jim Groovester, EuchreJack
BluarianKnight: - 1 - prefuzek
webadict: - 2 - notquitethere, ToonyMan

NQT and Pref are still attacking Blue. NQT thinks that Blue is a bandwagoner and only sheeping people's votes. Blue denies they wagoned Jack, but admits they've been slacking and state they will change that. After defending themselves from Pref as well Blue attempts to start a wagon on Jim, claiming that Jim is sitting back and not exposing themselves.

Huh??

Where the hell did this come from? They rip into Jim with a bunch of shit out of nowhere. Up until this point Blue has made no strong accusations of Jim, they threw slight shade on Jim in post #325 sure, but that was alongside me and Pref. Otherwise Jim and FoU were their top town picks.

It gets more crazy in post #359 when Jim then votes Blue and NQT hops on right after in post #360. Absolute madness.

If the team is Blue/Jim that means Blue jumped off the NQT wagon and the two mafia started a cross vote among themselves. NQT joined up with Jim and voted Blue with him. As did myself and Web.

#394 - Blue reels hard from the wagon that has formed on them at this point after voting Jim. The players on the Blue wagon now are Pref, Jim, NQT, Toony, and Web. Blue states they think both mafia are on their wagon. They think it's either Jim/Toony or Jim/NQT, although NQT was "already laying out multiple suspects, so I think it's Toony and Jim, personally."

Pure WIFOM. We know the last mafia is either Jim or NQT. Blue could be saying they think it's Jim over NQT because Jim is mafia or because NQT is mafia, it's pure WIFOM and we can't consider it.

(Does make NQT look worse though in my opinion.)

#407 - Blue moves their vote off of Jim and onto Web.

Jim was never voted by anybody but Blue. Blue also wasn't lynched on D1, Pref was. So whether the team is Jim/Blue or NQT/Blue it was a success.

#430 - Blue then moves to vote Pref and the day ends with Pref dead.

Jim eventually moves their vote off of mafia!Blue onto town!FoU and then town!Pref.

In conclusion, Blue barely interacts with Jim while reading them as one of the strongest town in the game. When NQT and Pref pressure Blue over bandwagoning they attempt to start a bandwagon on...Jim. Which backfires horribly, but doesn't end in their death either. Very unnatural vote switch to Jim. It also got a vote off NQT, but not only did NQT and Blue's arguments look natural, why would they butt heads in the first place?

I think it's likely that Jim is the mafia partner from this.


Bluarian's Interactions with NQT

#54 - NQT asks Blue if it's acceptable for town to pick Thief, Blue says "I think so?" with some reasonings after. Pretty normal.

NAI.

#144 - Blue's first reads list. I'll get to this later.

#233 - NQT questions Blue about their vote on Tric. Blue says they think Tric has been getting less scummy each post they make so they unvote Tric. Throws more shade on Pref. NQT voted Blue earlier so Blue also defends themselves by trying to justify their votes on Jack and Tric.

Blue backpedals off of Jack and Tric after NQT votes them over it. Sticks to their guns about Pref though. Doesn't look like MxM to me. NQT is applying pressure on Blue and Blue (being mafia) is trying to justify themselves. It's a harder push than Jim simply questioning Blue's large amount of scum reads.

#277 - After being pushed by Jim, Blue moves their vote onto NQT and states they think the mafia team is NQT/Pref.

This is a very natural looking bus if the team is NQT/Blue. It's so good I don't believe it.

#284 - NQT uses logic to question Blue's statement that NQT and Perf are partners. Blue tries to justify why they're voting NQT.

Again, this looks like Blue trying to attacking a town player. Blue is mafia so they know if they're voting their partner or not. This doesn't look like Blue attacking their partner to me, the act is very convincing if that's the case. In a power heavy game such as this one with 2 mafia and 7 town it's crazy to cross vote and bus each other, which is currently what NQT and Blue are doing on D1. This would be the most omega brained D1 play I've seen from mafia.

#312 - Blue continues to defend their vote on NQT from NQT. They continue to justify why they are voting NQT.

If this is a MxM interaction NQT and Blue are play-acting like champs. To me this looks like Blue trying to legitimately start a mislynch on town!NQT. Remember that a solo scum is especially fucked the earlier in this game mode they have to play solo because of town-confirmable actions.

#325 - Pref attacks Blue for voting NQT. Blue defends themselves while throwing shade on Toony, Jim, and Pref.

Admits to jumping on the NQT bandwagon alongside Web and Tric. Why would mafia bandwagon their own on D1 like this?

#353 - Again, the most interesting post Blue has made in the game happens here. Currently, NQT is the top wagon with 4 players on them (FoU, Web, Blue, and Tric). Just recently NQT voted Web and Toony followed suit making the vote count:
notquitethere - 4 - FallacyofUrist, webadict, BluarianKnight, TricMagic
prefuzek: - 2 - Jim Groovester, EuchreJack
BluarianKnight: - 1 - prefuzek
webadict: - 2 - notquitethere, ToonyMan

NQT and Pref are still attacking Blue. NQT thinks that Blue is a bandwagoner and only sheeping people's votes. Blue denies they wagoned Jack, but admits they've been slacking and state they will change that. After defending themselves from Pref as well Blue attempts to start a wagon on Jim, they move their vote off of NQT to do so.

Not only is the jump to Jim extremely unnatural, but it does remove a vote from the NQT wagon. Was Blue doing this to help NQT out? Why would they even put themselves in this situation in the first place if they're partners together?

It gets more crazy in post #359 when Jim then votes Blue and NQT hops on right after in post #360. Absolute madness. Me and Web soon join right after.

Thus a NQT wagon becomes a Blue wagon. If the team is NQT/Blue this was a huge fuckup from the mafia team. NQT hopping onto the Blue wagon with Jim looks more natural than Blue and Jim crossvoting each other. NQT has stated reasons through the whole game so far why they think Blue is scum. Jim and Blue cross vote like it's a magic trick, out of thin air.

#394 - Blue reels hard from the wagon that has formed on them at this point after voting Jim. The players on the Blue wagon now are Pref, Jim, NQT, Toony, and Web. Blue states they think both mafia are on their wagon. They think it's either Jim/Toony or Jim/NQT, although NQT was "already laying out multiple suspects, so I think it's Toony and Jim, personally."

Pure WIFOM. We know the last mafia is either Jim or NQT. Blue could be saying they think it's Jim over NQT because Jim is mafia or because NQT is mafia, it's pure WIFOM and we can't consider it.

And that's pretty much it. Blue then moves off of Jim onto Web and then Pref.

NQT never moves their vote off of mafia!Blue.

In conclusion, NQT gets in a huge battle with Blue throughout Day 1. With the help of Pref they both attack Blue who defends themselves from NQT before switching to Jim, which never takes off. Their arguments look natural and hostile. If there's a bus going on this would be a very strong bus on D1.

Therefore I think NQT is likely town.

---

Why It Matters To Be Popular has been delayed. I don't feel like including it in this post. It will be about other player's reads of Jim and NQT.

I don't really want to make one giant post, plus I'm busy, so I thought it would be fun to write some smaller posts on NQT vs Jim.

Let this be a lesson for future mafia players.

These posts won't be in chronological order and just things I want to point out at the time.

---

First things first, Day 3.

Day 3 FoU Mislynch - or - The Attitude of Mafia vs Town Towards A Mislynch

Day 3 starts with Webadict killed, there's five players alive.

NQT, Tric, Bluarian, FoU, Jim, and Toony.

There's only one mafia left, so the remaining mafia killed Webadict.

Tric and Toony have hard alibis.

FoU has a soft alibi.

NQT and Jim have no alibi.

We're only going to be looking at NQT and Jim as one of them is the remaining mafia.

Jim

#616 - Jim starts the day wondering if maybe Web caused the death of himself by using their Scroll of Command to kill themselves on FoU. They also claim Random Scavenger along with their night actions.

Protecting NQT N2 is an odd choice, otherwise that part is NAI. Musing that Web may have killed himself using a Scroll of Command on FoU is like Jim is trying to open the POE. He needs to plant the idea in your head that FoU is still a possible killer as well. Could be scummy, could be NAI.

#630 - Jim votes for FoU. They think that regardless of the POE or not FoU is most likely scum. They state that if FoU isn't scum then the game gets more interesting, but they don't want to bother thinking unless they have to.

Lazy Jim = Mafia Jim.

#645 - Jim gives me their list of items and night actions. It's done in a timely manner. Jim defends themselves from FoU's accusations. Jim thinks Tric is most likely town.

Jim respecting my request is polite, it's not clear whether they're lying or not so that's NAI. Jim throws shades on FoU which is expected. They also clear Tric as town, but interestingly don't address NQT at all. Mafia!Jim could be leaving NQT open as the next mislynch. I don't see any towntells in this post.

#659 - Jim defends themselves from NQT after NQT supposes that Jim is the killer if FoU is not. Jim brings up good points for why NQT could be scum instead of himself.

Defensive Jim. I like their points against NQT, but obviously I can't tell if he's being honest or not.

#673 - Jim asks Toony if there's anything FoU could possibly dig up to convince him. Jim doesn't like the defeatist self-vote, but doesn't think FoU should struggle to try if nothing comes of it.

Weirdly pessimistic post from Jim. Why shouldn't FoU try? FoU was clearly trying during D3 even though they self-voted, it's what made me unsure of their alignment personally. I really hated the self-vote and it meant nothing to me, but trying to help town with info felt very townie. If FoU kept their vote on Jim I was seriously considering switching my vote. Let that be a lesson for townies that self-vote.

Overall, Jim is underrepresenting himself and not trying to solve. He gives the impression that he may have already been aware that FoU was innocent. He is either having a seriously poor town game or they're mafia.

NQT

#617 - NQT starts the day intrigued and claims they also picked Random Scavenger. They list their night actions. They're surprised Web was picked as the kill (instead of Toony or Tric?)

Protecting me for N2 as the most likely to be town makes sense, otherwise it's a NAI post.

]#621 - NQT thinks the mafia has to be between themselves and Jim unless FoU got around the redirect. They question how Tric could think that they're partners with Blue. They vote Jim.

Voting Jim here first instead of FoU is incredibly gutsy as mafia. Mafia!NQT would be willingly setting themselves up for POE, knowing that Tric has a vendetta against them and that Jim would flip town in this world. It's a losing play. This is a town POV post.

#626 - NQT switches their vote to FoU after Toony votes for FoU. They give vote analysis reasons as for why. They admit they thought FoU was town before, but aren't so sure now. They tell Tric they can confirm themselves tonight.

NQT justifies their vote switch and gives reasons for why. Could just be mafia switching from one town or another still so let's not give them the benefit of the doubt and go with NAI.

#628 - NQT agrees with Toony that FoU could still be the killer actually. Says that FoU fits better for scum with Blue here and that Jim needlessly imperiled their partner Blue here.

Again, NQT goes out of their way to reason they think FoU is more likely scum than Jim behaviorally, and now that they've realized the "Web using a Scroll of Command on FoU" angle they're willing to vote FoU. This looks natural to me. This post is from a town POV. NQT isn't aware that FoU is actually town.

#648 - NQT covers Jim from FoU. They state that Toony and Tric look to be mechanically cleared.

NQT stands up for Jim here, stating that behaviorally they wouldn't be partners with Blue. He pushes the "Web kills himself with Scroll of Command" scenario as why FoU could have still performed the kill, the very scenario that Jim implants at the start of the day. NQT's post here is sticking up for everyone as town besides FoU. It's insane from a mafia POV.

#651 - NQT hypothesizes the Scroll of Command scenario again. They state that alternatively Jim would be the killer and that we'll find out very soon. They jokingly ask scum to throw in the towel.

This post could be scummy, it makes sense from NQT's POV but for people who don't know his alignment I find it unnerving.

#652 - NQT justifies the Scroll of Command scenario further. Asks the mod a question.

Normal, nothing to say here.

#653 - NQT defends Jim as town with evidence. "Goes well beyond just distancing. Not impossible but not expected."

This post is super townie. Why does mafia!NQT even bother? If NQT is mafia this is the best I've ever seen him play as mafia. Mafia knows FoU is a mislynch, they don't need to look into other players for townie behavior.

#654 - NQT attacks FoU with evidence. "Just on the D1 behavior alone, Jim comes out over Fallacy.

An understandable accusation towards FoU. Is clearly trying to solve the game.

#658 - NQT looks through more of D1 and finds possible evidence towards Jim being mafia from a past-NQT thought, albeit unlikely.

Looks genuine. Proactive.

#660 - NQT is going to think more about Jim being mafia. Points out that if Blue had a Potion of Insurance then his buddy will have a Rare item of some sort.

NAI post.

#669 - NQT doesn't like self-voting as a town strategy. Tries to pull more info out of FoU.

Just like myself, NQT is trying to learn more from FoU in case he's wrong. It doesn't look like NQT knows that he's wrong.

#676 - NQT defends themselves from Toony. Thinks that FoU should be trying more.

Opposite opinion of Jim. NQT even says "no real push on Jim or mine's behavior" which is interesting, he even includes himself.

#679 - NQT finally claims their items. They address what they will be doing at night.

The extremely late item claim is annoying because I was asking for it a lot, so scum points for being so late about it. I thought it was pretty obvious they would be targeting Tric last tonight so that's NAI.

#684 - NQT is the third and final vote on shortening the day, effectively hammering FoU.

Could be scummy. I was fed up with FoU self-voting so I decided to shorten, FoU and NQT appeared out of nowhere right after to shorten. Could be NQT trying to push for their win, but NQT clearly doesn't have a lylo breaker as they didn't attempt to kill last night. I purposely threw shade on NQT to make it unclear who I would block last night, so NQT should have went for the kill if they had a lylo breaker, but they didn't. I can only conclude that NQT doesn't have a lylo breaker.

Overall, NQT is active and appears to want to solve. They don't appear to be aware of FoU's alignment. This is the best I've seen NQT's mafia play or they're town.

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Tune in next time for Day 1 Who Is Also Blue? - or - Why It Matters To Be Popular

Nah, use the Wand of Ill Will on Jim in that case, there's a chance it poisons or he randomizes onto himself.

I picked up a Wand of Shapeshift from the public item pool at the end of D3. I don't have anything else now.

If you're going to tell me there's no combination of items that you could have used to 'confirm' yourself while performing a kill, that is incorrect. Potion of Rage exists, which is a rare item. Hey, what rarity of item did BluearianKnight's Potion of Insurance bring into the game after his death?

Is it likely? Not really.

It's actually impossible.

Potion of Rage item description:

In addition to your other action, you kill your target. You may only take one other action tonight regardless of other effects, and you cannot vote the next day due to exhaustion, but this kill is unblockable and bypasses one protection.

Vote Count at end of D3:

Vote Count:

notquitethere: TricMagic
TricMagic:
FallacyofUrist: ToonyMan, notquitethere, Jim Groovester, FallacyofUrist
Jim Groovester:
ToonyMan:

Not Voting: