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Messages - ToonyMan

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3571
Mafia / Re: Who are the Gnosia? Day One - 9/9 Alive
« on: May 03, 2021, 09:57:52 am »
Tric, if we cold sleep Web and they come back as Gnosia tomorrow, great!

BUT

If Web is real Engy or AC Follower he'll come back human for Jack tomorrow and we'll be stuck in a position where Vector is either real Engy or Gnosia. If we lynch Vector to confirm then either:

1. They're also human which means Web was real and got 0 results OR Vector was real and got 1 result, but we can't be sure which is true.
2. They're Gnosia and we have one Gnosia left.

Scenario 2 is possible, but wishful thinking.

3572
Mafia / Re: Who are the Gnosia? Day One - 9/9 Alive
« on: May 03, 2021, 08:09:06 am »
Quote from: webadict on May 03, 2021, 06:42:32 am
You know what?

Fuck it. Caz.

LAL. It's what Caz would do.
It's obvious AC follower bait though.

If we hit Gnosia today Jack can confirm tomorrow and we can actually win through brute force no matter who the remaining Gnosia is between Web/Caz/Vector.

In other words, the Web/Caz/Vector Gnosia cannot bus their partner today or it's an instant lose.

PPE:
Woooah.

3573
Mafia / Re: Who are the Gnosia? Day One - 9/9 Alive
« on: May 03, 2021, 12:02:49 am »
@Tric:
Quote from: TricMagic on May 02, 2021, 09:11:12 pm
The issue here is why do you want to survive webadict? If vector is fakeclaiming, he's Gnosia with caz's backtracking. Coroner can confirm that. If Coroner dies, then you can confirm someone. If you die, then Coroner is protected by the guardian angel. But as Gnosia, this is a bad scenario to be in, since coroner would confirm vector as human. Which makes you the lier. This is based on the GA always choosing to protect the Coroner as the one who can confirm things. Of the two, being able to tell what someone was is more important than the cop in this case. I'd much rather remove one of the two Gnosia immediately than let them live to sow confusion.
Again, we can't put Web into cold sleep today for the same reasons as Vector.

For one thing it would allow Gnosia to try to kill the remaining Engineer or Coroner.

No, Gnosia are looking for the Guardian Angel right now. If they can kill the Guardian then they can kill Jack.


@Blue:
Quote from: BluarianKnight on May 02, 2021, 07:34:36 pm
I'm not putting effort in - because I don't think it'll matter.
Why? Mislynching is a big deal.

Quote from: BluarianKnight on May 02, 2021, 07:34:36 pm
Fuck it, shoot me then.
Quote from: BluarianKnight on May 02, 2021, 07:34:36 pm
Investigate me.
How do the Engineers investigate you if we're putting you in cold sleep?

I don't understand the resigned attitude if you want an Engineer to clear you as well.

I'm willing to vote Caz instead, but I suspect you as Gnosia more currently.


PPE:

@Caz:
Quote from: Caz on May 02, 2021, 11:55:43 pm
i'm pretty happy if you lynch me as long as you promise to watch web that forced the folk to show their things for no reason.
Why are you willing to be lynched? Mafia-ally?

3574
Mafia / Re: Who are the Gnosia? Day One - 9/9 Alive
« on: May 02, 2021, 08:07:37 pm »
@Blue:
We can't eliminate Vector because they claimed Engineer.

1. If we're wrong and they're the real Engineer it would be devastating for town.
2. If we're right and they're a fake Engineer then Web or Jack have a 50/50 chance of dying.

In fact, they claimed Engineer even though two other players (Web and Caz) had claimed Engineer at the time, a very odd choice if they're fake-claiming. Why wouldn't Vector claim Coroner instead here? Two Coroner and two Engineer claims makes way more sense than three Engineer and one Coroner claim. They may have claimed Engineer because they had to, which leads credence to their claim.

3575
Mafia / Re: Who are the Gnosia? Day One - 9/9 Alive
« on: May 02, 2021, 12:49:59 pm »
If a PR role is claimed after Day 1 and there have been no claims, we cannot 100% trust these claims. Thus, claiming on Day 1 is the correct play for this setup in particular. It's about figuring out who the fakes are over the course of the game.

I'm 95% sure Web is the real Engy, but a contesting claim from Vector means I'm not 100% sure anymore.

I'm 100% sure Jack is the real Coroner, because it's uncontested.

3576
Mafia / Re: Who are the Gnosia? Day One - 9/9 Alive
« on: May 02, 2021, 12:37:28 pm »
Tric, what should a real Engy or Coroner do if an AC or Gnosia fake-claims their role on Day 1?

Stay quiet and claim on Day 2? No. This makes your claim incredibly unbelievable. Also, what if you're killed before Day 2? You'll never have a chance to contest their claim and the liar will be believed 100% as no one else will contest their clam, making for a guaranteed scum victory.

3577
Mafia / Re: Who are the Gnosia? Day One - 9/9 Alive
« on: May 02, 2021, 12:33:42 pm »
Gnosia can't kill PR claims at night if there's more than one claim. It's the ultimate protection. The Guardian Angel doesn't need to protect contested claims, only uncontested claims (in this case, Jack the Coroner). Gnosia killing a PR claimer outs the other PR claimer as a liar.

PR claiming players will be put into cold sleep after a certain point in the game, never night-killed.

3578
Mafia / Re: Who are the Gnosia? Day One - 9/9 Alive
« on: May 02, 2021, 11:52:43 am »
@Web:
Quote from: webadict on May 02, 2021, 02:41:25 am
I am much rather for Vector's removal, but, it appears that ToonyMan knows that if we launch BK, Vector can't kill me, and I can verify that Vector is Gnosia tomorrow, and Jack will confirm BK is Gnosia tonight.
I like this plan. We can trust Jack's results.


@Jim:
Quote from: Jim Groovester on May 02, 2021, 03:19:32 am
Quote from: ToonyMan on May 01, 2021, 02:34:26 pm
The lack of a second counter-claim means only a single person is fake-claiming, making it almost certain that the fake-claimer is AC and not Gnosia. Another reason why mafia need to fake-claim every claim. I'm disappointed since I made this abundantly clear before the game started.
My dunce sense is tingling. Why is a second counterclaim (or lack thereof) significant?
The AC Follower should always fake-claim, 100% of the time. If there's only one fake-claim it must be the AC Follower.

Caz rescinding their claim confirms this assessment, it would draw too much heat for a Gnosia.

3579
Mafia / Re: Who are the Gnosia? Day One - 9/9 Alive
« on: May 02, 2021, 12:15:30 am »
I'm getting some serious Revolution III flashbacks here.

@Jack:
Quote from: EuchreJack on May 01, 2021, 07:20:10 pm
@ToonyMan: Since I'm the Coroner, I'm not following your logic.
I was sort of baiting Blue or Vector to claim Coroner but it doesn't look like they're budging.

PPE: nevermind


@Blue:
Quote from: BluarianKnight on May 01, 2021, 08:58:05 pm
Also, Caz - it isn't worth it - we know he's AC - given with what's presented, he's an enemy no matter what. Other players don't have that certainty - so investigating them is far more important.
Why do you trust Caz so much over Web? You're writing this like you know Caz is real Engy, but that can't be true for us.


*Vector claims Engineer*

...Interesting play. This confirms between Web/Caz/Vector that one is real, one is AC follower, and one is Gnosia. One real and two Gnosia is possible, but extremely unlikely.

It also removes Vector from the elimination list today.

BluarianKnight

3580
Mafia / Re: Who are the Gnosia? Day One - 9/9 Alive
« on: May 02, 2021, 12:04:51 am »
Wooooooooooooooooooow

3581
Mafia / Re: Who are the Gnosia? Day One - 9/9 Alive
« on: May 01, 2021, 06:37:58 pm »
@Caz:
I was going to recommend the Engineers to inspect each other tonight, but maybe you're right.

@Jack:
I would say there's still some players that could reasonably counterclaim Coroner since they could be town that didn't really understand how this game works.

3582
Mafia / Re: Who are the Gnosia? Day One - 9/9 Alive
« on: May 01, 2021, 02:34:26 pm »
@Jim:
Quote from: Jim Groovester on May 01, 2021, 02:08:44 pm
Quote from: ToonyMan on April 30, 2021, 07:42:05 pm
What are you going to do to improve your town game?
Nothing.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Quote from: Jim Groovester on May 01, 2021, 02:08:44 pm
It makes sense based on the details of the open set up but I'm kind of disappointed that the game type and setup allows for scenarios like this where the optimal play is to claim on Day 1 and then the rest of the game revolves around that. Now that two engineers and the coroner have claimed does the guardian angel have any agency anymore about who to protect? They're going to protect the Coroner because doing otherwise would be suboptimal.
Hey, that's mafia's fault for not contesting both claims.

Quote from: Jim Groovester on May 01, 2021, 02:08:44 pm
Quote from: Caz on May 01, 2021, 01:14:08 pm
I'm the engineer btw. Idk what web is doing. Probably trying to flush out the real engineer like Vector said.
This feels weak compared to webadict's engineer claim even though I must distrust webadict due to his skill as a player.
I agree. I think Web is a good enough player to fake-claim immediately.

Quote from: Jim Groovester on May 01, 2021, 02:08:44 pm
If I had to call the game right now I would say it's Vector and Caz for Gnosia with BluearianKnight being a lesser suspect for not being able to read TricMagic the easiest player to read.
I don't think our Gnosia had the nerve to fake-claim (even though it's 100% the best move for them) so here are my thoughts:

Tric - town
Caz - Engineer or AC Follower
Vector - Gnosia, why vote Web here?
Bluarian - Gnosia, they're signaling to the AC follower to counter-claim here
Web - Engineer or AC Follower (or Gnosia? but then why wouldn't the AC fake-claim?)
NQT - town
Jack - Coroner
Jim - town

The lack of a second counter-claim means only a single person is fake-claiming, making it almost certain that the fake-claimer is AC and not Gnosia. Another reason why mafia need to fake-claim every claim. I'm disappointed since I made this abundantly clear before the game started.

3583
Mafia / Re: Who are the Gnosia? Day One - 9/9 Alive
« on: May 01, 2021, 01:36:31 pm »
Quote from: Jim Groovester on May 01, 2021, 01:27:41 pm
Skimmed through the thread.
No counterclaim of anything from me.
So...Jack is confirmed real Coroner then?

Your role is still important Jack, it forces the fake Engineer to not claim anything that you can contradict.

3584
Mafia / Re: Who are the Gnosia? Day One - 9/9 Alive
« on: May 01, 2021, 01:16:47 pm »
Quote from: Caz on May 01, 2021, 01:14:08 pm
I'm the engineer btw. Idk what web is doing. Probably trying to flush out the real engineer like Vector said.
Excellent. The game has begun.

One of Web or Caz is Gnosia or AC.

3585
Mafia / Re: Who are the Gnosia? Day One - 9/9 Alive
« on: May 01, 2021, 01:11:52 pm »
@Jack:
Quote from: EuchreJack on May 01, 2021, 01:07:05 pm
Leaf, could you confirm whether or not Coroner can autopsy Night Kill Victims?  My read is they can not, but this is one time I'd really like to be wrong.
Quote from: Leafsnail on April 07, 2021, 01:48:12 pm
Role: Coroner
Coroner credentials detected. You may inspect the subject of the cold sleep for signs of Gnosia infection.
Species: Human
Win condition: You win when all the Gnosia have been eliminated.
Abilities: The night after someone is sent to cold sleep (voted off) you will be told what species they were.
Word of caution, the AC follower show up as human.

@Webadict:
Quote from: webadict on May 01, 2021, 01:09:34 pm
Jack, there's no need to analyze NK victims, since they are always Human. Only vote elimination victims can be Human or Gnosia.
Yep. Only humans can die at night.

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