Bay 12 Games Forum

@Blue:

Quote from: ToonyMan on May 01, 2021, 11:24:16 am

Quote from: BluarianKnight on May 01, 2021, 11:09:13 am

Toony - Do you think fake-claiming is better or worse for scum?

I have an answer for this, but I'm not giving scum advice.

You already answered this - but I wanted to know if you'd change your mind.

Yes, I did state how I believe mafia should play before the game started.

I'm not confirming anything now as an in-game player, however, let's make something clear:

I have to believe Web and Jack if nobody claims otherwise. There is no argument in the world that will convince me Web and Jack are scum besides a counter-claim. Every player is alive right now on D1, the real Engineer and Coroner are here with us. From their POV letting Web and Jack run the show with lies would make the game unwinnable for town, therefore, the real Engy and Coroner must counter-claim. If there are no counter-claims, Web and Jack are real.

@Jack:

Quote from: ToonyMan on April 30, 2021, 08:00:19 pm

Quote from: EuchreJack on April 30, 2021, 07:46:37 pm

ToonyMan, why are you trying to get me killed so soon, and the cop engineer too?

Claiming paints a target on the rest of town's back, Jack.

Kinda confused by that.  More explanation would help.

Okay.

Scenario 1:
Town have a Guardian Angel that can stop a Gnosia kill at night. If an Engineer or Coroner claim goes unchallenged on Day 1 then we can assume the person claiming is legit. The Guardian is going to protect an unchallenged Engineer or Coroner on Night 1 because they're guaranteed town, thus Gnosia have a 50/50 chance of actually getting their kill off on one of them, or they have to go for a human player who hasn't claimed (it's possible they kill the AC Follower by accident which is why I'm not just saying "town player" here).

If Gnosia don't try to kill the unchallenged Day 1 Engineer and Coroner claims then they will eventually be routed, but if they do try to go for the PR kills then the Guardian makes it very challenging for them.

Scenario 2:
The Engineer and/or Coroner claims are challenged by either the real ones, an AC follower, or a Gnosia. In this case we'll have two Engineers and/or two Coroners, but we won't know which one is legitimate. The town doesn't want to lynch the players that have claimed, because if we get it wrong then we'll have a fake Engineer or Coroner lying to us for the rest of the game. The Gnosia can't kill the players who claimed Engineer or Coroner at night because then the other player left alive is confirmed scum or possibly real if the player killed was an AC follower. Gnosia will be trying to figure out who the AC follower is so they don't kill them, but they can't know for sure until at least Day 2 meaning that PR claims are basically guaranteed to survive until the end game when we need to determine who's legit or not.

In other words, town players that haven't claimed Engineer or Coroner will be the targets tonight.

In either scenario it's very unlikely you or Web will die tonight.

---

@Vector:

Quote from: webadict on April 30, 2021, 08:28:14 pm

Hey Vector, are you Gnosia?

No, I'm not, but you're a pretty good candidate for the AC follower.
Trying to out the real Engineer for the scumteam to pick off, Web?

Sounds like scum logic to me Vector.

@Everyone:
I see that Webadict has done this already, but this is important.

The Engineer and Coroner should come out and claim today. If one of you guys dies at night without claiming that opens up a huge can of worms.

If Webadict is lying I strongly recommend the real Engineer to come out. We can deduce who is real as the game progresses.

And no, I am not the Engineer or Coroner.

@NQT:
What are you going to do to improve your mafia game?

@Jim:
What are you going to do to improve your town game?

@Tric:
Lynch all lurkers? Yea or nay?

@Caz:
Who would you target at night?

I don't know about tomorrow, but I can probably play on Saturday.

My sockpuppets are all good, as am I.

How will the setup work for 9 players, assuming no one else joins?

Persus if you lied and said you picked left, everyone would have voted you and if villagers vote someone when there's no wolves then the minion wins. Does the minion need to get someone else voted off? That's stupid it shouldn't matter if the minion is by himself since if there's any wolves the minion wants to get eliminated!

On the flip side, if you picked left for real and lied and said you picked right, nobody would vote you and you would win since you're really a wolf.

Basically honestly claiming your action was paradoxically the wrong move to make if you wanted to win, since you weren't town and needed to realize that before claiming truthfully.

Part of my reasoning for my fake VI rotation claim was to give myself wiggle room if it turned out I had made myself a wolf. I suspect Toony withholding his Troublemaker info was a way of doing the same thing.

Yep.

OOPS Secret's incredibly foolish fake-claim keeps messing me up.

Corrections:
4maskwolf started as Cursed, not Prince.
NQT is now the Cursed.

For completion's sake I swapped NQT and 4mask which effectively did nothing as both started as town, Village Idiot and Cursed.