Bay 12 Games Forum

Quote from: ToonyMan on February 17, 2021, 12:46:16 pm

Mightymushroom, claims a flaw that prevents them from following the plan, my guess is they have Blinkered and their target is somebody else. If they choose to admit this we can work around their flaw to have Night 1 work still. Otherwise we'll be in the dark just like Webadict, another good candidate for lynching.

I don't know how you got Blinkered from the post you linked. It's a misstatement of what I claimed.

I'm completely guessing.

Quote from: Nirur Torir on February 17, 2021, 06:54:12 pm

Web and mushroom:
Are you willing and able to take verifiable actions tonight?

There is one verifiable action I could do tonight. The verifiable effect will be too late for tomorrow's discussion however.
I wonder ToonyMan will understand that one.

Hmm, okay.

@Nirur:

I feel like it's important to kill the dummies. But they don't have to both be lynches. I started with assassin 1, and can level it up to 2 tonight to poison one. At worst, it forces the scum to use an action and a level up to counter it, and we have to lynch the bot later instead of now. Their actions are worth more than mine, especially if we can keep verification schemes going to keep their usable action count down.
At best, we get a replacement and can cure the poison.

I appreciate the idea, but I want everyone to be handing out shields tonight.

---

Currently:

The Plan

Everybody get Merchant 1 at the end of day if you don't have it (otherwise work towards your profession).

webadict Sell Shield ToonyMan (50% chance of working)
ToonyMan Sell Shield Caz
Caz Sell Shield FallacyofUrist
FallacyofUrist Sell Shield Vector
Vector Sell Shield Luckyowl
Luckyowl Sell Shield Secretdorf
Secretdorf Sell Shield mightymushroom
mightymushroom Sell Shield juicebox
juicebox Sell Shield Egan BW
Egan BW Sell Shield Nirur Torir
Nirur Torir Sell Shield webadict
TricMagic Sell Shield Jim Groovester
Jim Groovester Sell Shield Toaster
Toaster Sell Shield TricMagic

mightymushroom hasn't changed their stance, while Egan BW and TricMagic will do something random at best or be orchestrated by mafia at worst.

If possible I want someone else to give Jim a shield. I don't mind only having a 50% chance of getting a shield from Web, if scum decide to risk trying to kill me that's their gamble, but I don't want scum getting a free twofer from killing Jim if he's town.

Possible Idea:

webadict Sell Shield ToonyMan (50% chance of working)
ToonyMan Sell Shield Caz
Caz Sell Shield FallacyofUrist
FallacyofUrist Sell Shield Vector
Vector Sell Shield Luckyowl
Luckyowl Sell Shield Secretdorf
Secretdorf Sell Shield juicebox
juicebox Sell Shield Nirur Torir
Nirur Torir Sell Shield Jim Groovester
Jim Groovester Sell Shield Toaster
Toaster Sell Shield webadict

mightymushroom we don't know
TricMagic we don't know
Egan BW we don't know

I popped mightymushroom, TricMagic, and Egan BW out of the list and reconnected everyone. Does this look good to everyone?

If we eliminate one of these three then there's no changes to make. If we eliminate someone else we can make the changes beforehand.

I'll leave this up to any Replacements. This type of play is not my cup of tea. It's sooo boring. If I wanted that, I'd just read a history book.

Is it? From what I can tell Day 2 is going to be very interesting. As will the remaining Days and Nights.

If I was mafia I would be thinking about every way I could screw with town's plans. It would be a blast to outwit them, just sayin'.

@Toaster:

Toony:  I don't understand why you're dead set on a plan that is full of holes past the reasonable Night 1 of getting lots of shields in hands.  Multiple people have pointed out flaws, but your argument against them is basically "it'll be fine don't worry about it."  I'm only in favor of the N1 part; everything past that is too subject to variables that can't be controlled for.

Fair enough. I understand your view.

Web is 100% correct that we can't let it lead away from the daygame, which I've gone and done myself.

Mmm.

Quote from: ToonyMan on February 17, 2021, 02:04:04 pm

If we're eliminating my first pick is Egan BW.

Then why not vote?

Alright, I'll do this so Webadict follows the plan. Plus Egan BW is replacing out and who knows if we'll get a replacement.

Egan BW. Second pick is TricMagic, third pick is mightymushroom.

Regardless of the outcome we'll update The Night 1 Plan to fit together again before hammer/deadline.

---

@TricMagic:

Mostly the point any plans I had on Medium-ing secretly went out the window with this plan. I started poking as many holes into it as I could because it has workarounds that are obvious enough to see. Flowermaidens could for example dope to bypass the shield. I should know given I would have liked that role from the start. As is any longterm plans I had have been completely disrupted by this. On the bright side, that should apply to mafia as well, up till they use teamwork to get around it.

It takes two dopings to kill someone. They'll know if they've been hit by a dope on Night 1 so they'll claim on Day 2 and we can narrow down who the mafia Flowermaiden is.

If somebody on the mafia team is a Level 1 or 2 Assassin and decides to invest in that and poison somebody tonight we can narrow down who they are and make somebody a Level 1 Doctor to remove the poison before they die.

If mafia got a Level 2 Assassin on Night 0 and poisoned somebody they should claim. Anybody poisoned? I'm not.

How about NO. You're setting up a witchhunt and I don't like it. You'll just whittle us done until we hit level 4, then pull a fast one and end us.
2-1-2/3-2-3/4-3/4-3-4. Day 4 3 people are dead from poison. Day 3 is almost guaranteed to see 2 people dead and resurrection 3 days away. And that's in the case of one poisoner. And on day 4 Monks can trap people, so one more dead f a lynch occurs. 10 people left, and we get resurrections. Except with some not going that route it's not going to work, and a fifth will die to ressurect someone who isn't a monk. Day 5 say we have 8 people left. Assuming 4 mafia, that's game over. All without having to do anything but go along a perfect plan. Not even counting if there are multiple poisoners. Point is we can't afford to coast till we have tier-5 power, we have to lynch someone. And by doing so we get closer to the end with a town loss as the result if this is being orchestrated by mafia. I'm not playing this game where we all slowly die off.

Fine. Don't agree with the plan after Night 1.

I can understand that, but why oppose everyone getting Merchant 1 and daisy chaining shields with each other? Most town players will get kill protects and anybody who doesn't hand out a shield will be incredibly suspect if somebody dies or a shield gets broken.

---

OK, you should definitely not put me on the "for" pile. I don't like a plan that relies on doing No-Lynches for days while steadily accruing flaws.

No. We are not no-lynching after Day 1.

Am I willing to do as you ask in the nightgame on N1? Yes, although I think that if I were playing scum in this game, I would probably no-NK on the first night and try to get people to chain-lynch their way through the town with the resulting WIFOM. So, y'know. Am I willing to sacc the daygame for "the plan"? Not a chance. No. Never.

Day game all you want.

If mafia choose not to kill, then they don't get to kill town and most of us get kill protection.

Quote from: ToonyMan on February 16, 2021, 05:02:31 pm

Too bad.

Knowing that town wins even if dead doesn't always make up for lack of people skills.

Sorry.

---

Players that approve or oppose The Plan Night 1:

Approve
Caz
ToonyMan
Nirur Torir
FallacyofUrist
Vector
Luckyowl
Juicebox
Toaster, at least for Night 1
Jim Groovester, at least for Night 1

Unclear
TricMagic, I think they're opposed? Has no justification except that they think I'm lying scum.
Secretdorf, has avoided the subject
Egan BW, replacing out

Opposes
Webadict, claims they have the Magnetic flaw and also doesn't want to follow the plan, even says they'll actively sabotage it. If they steal?? somebody's shield on Night 1 or whatever we should know. Even if they're magnetic I think they should take the 50% chance of confirming themselves, otherwise they're bullshitting mafia.
Mightymushroom, claims a flaw that prevents them from following the plan, my guess is they have Blinkered and their target is somebody else. If they choose to admit this we can work around their flaw to have Night 1 work still. Otherwise we'll be in the dark just like Webadict, another good candidate for lynching.

---

The Plan

Everybody get Merchant 1 at the end of day if you don't have it (otherwise work towards your profession).

webadict Sell Shield ToonyMan
ToonyMan Sell Shield Caz
Caz Sell Shield FallacyofUrist
FallacyofUrist Sell Shield Vector
Vector Sell Shield Luckyowl
Luckyowl Sell Shield Secretdorf
Secretdorf Sell Shield mightymushroom
mightymushroom Sell Shield juicebox
juicebox Sell Shield Egan BW
Egan BW Sell Shield Nirur Torir
Nirur Torir Sell Shield webadict
TricMagic Sell Shield Jim Groovester
Jim Groovester Sell Shield Toaster
Toaster Sell Shield TricMagic


I need clear stances from Secretdorf, TricMagic, and Egan BW's replacement. Sorry if you made this clear Tric but I missed it.

Right now me and Juicebox (and maybe Jim) aren't receiving shields.

Anybody got any comments?

---

Obviously, ToonyMan, if I'm Mafia, I'll flip Mafia and show your plan is only being fought by Mafia.
But you're gonna be afraid I'm Town. And that will break cohesion. Or you know I'm Town, and KNOW it will. Your plan is bad, and the more you defend it, the more it makes you look like scum. So you probably can't vote me either way, can you?

Nah, you're obviously town.

And Level 5 Doge banning resurrections while giving pardons? An idea I had, as they can just prevent lynches, buy votes, and generally ruin such planning.

We'll have confirmed town at that point.

We can have a confirmed town kill the Doge by whatever means since the Doge will be confirmed scum.