Bay 12 Games Forum

PFP really caught up in work right now I'll have the plan update soon

No. Not happening while I'm alive. You want to fuck around, you can do it over my dead body, but I'm going to steal the Shields of anyone that I think is scum because that plan doesn't involve stalling until we have Lvl 5s everywhere.

Go ahead. That is also verifiable.

Which ability finds Mafia, ToonyMan? Tell me that. Which ability inspects alignment so we can mechanically verify everyone.

Resurrects from Monk 5 will create confirmed town. Spotlight from Surveyor 5 can catch scum red-handed, confirming them as mafia.

Or do you just want Lvl 5s everywhere?

We will. If anybody isn't Monk 5 or Surveyor 5 we lynch them. If scum use Resurrect on their buddy we lynch them. If scum use Spotlight they only hurt themselves.

If we have a Level 5 Monk that's mafia that keeps resurrecting their buddy then our stack of Spotlights will find them and we can lynch them first.

@Nirur Torir:

Quote from: ToonyMan on February 16, 2021, 06:06:16 pm

It needs to be everyone playing. It can't be a secondary circle.

Why?
We know there will be defectors, why not let people defect in public, take them out of it, and let everyone else be shielded?

Forcing every mafia member into the shield circle makes them have to play along (and give a kill protect to a townie), or not play along and out themselves as mafia.

Shields don't stop a player from being lynched, this only benefits town.

Allowing any players to act outside the circle means that if at least one outsider is a mafia member they can perform the kill while the remaining mafia members play along in the shield circle.

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@Vector:

Quote from: Jim Groovester on February 16, 2021, 09:38:09 pm

Is this the same webadict who advocated for the mass suicide N1 strategy in BP3 even though that was an even less foolproof plan?
I'm still catching up on the details but this puzzles me.

Toony is actually the progenitor of this plan.

While I would love to credit for the part of the plan that most people agree with, Caz said it first.

So I think Caz is pretty likely town.

Night 1 is pretty locked in.

What we decide to do after Night 1 is still up in the air, but we can discuss it on Day 2. A combination of Monks and Surveyors is sounding good to me, preventing a mafia Ban strategy from working.

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@Jim:

Now that I've thought about it for a touch longer I'm not completely sold on the plan since there are people who are mechanically incapable of following along and as the game goes on there will be more who can't follow since specializing in a role gains flaws. Unless I haven't thought it through completely it looks like it's destined to break down. I'm unbelievably tired right now so I won't rule out not thinking it through completely.

I like giving everybody shields on N1 so that part at least we should do anyway.

You're right. This round robin shield plan will only really hold for the first few nights. Players are more likely to get debilitating flaws as the Days go on.

I think after we all give each other shields on Night 1 we can proceed to spam actions everywhere to detect and stop kills while leveling up to Monk 5 and Surveyor 5 (also Spy 2 and Doctor 2). Combine this with some solid day play and we will completely root out the scum.

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@Webadict:

Things people are trying to do:
Make a plan that tables eliminating scum until... never.

Nope. We're turning Day 1/Night 1 into hell for scum and then we'll pick them off one by one starting Day 2 once we've bulked up.

If scum choose not to kill and all of them play along, then we completely denied the use of their mafiakill and they also won't be allowed to kill anybody Night 1. And it's not even a loss for town since we'll all get kill protects.

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I'll have an update to The Plan next.

@Nirur Torir:

I think it will be more useful to get a list of people who will go along with it and protect each other, to get a list together. I'm up for joining the protection circle, but I'd like it to take second stage and not be the focus of D1.

It needs to be everyone playing. It can't be a secondary circle.

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@Webadict:

Quote from: ToonyMan on February 16, 2021, 05:07:18 pm

A player can't do anything else if they're handing out a shield.

Two scum players in a row make your plan faulty. The second one can do the killing, OR they can make people redirect using the Duelist's Challenge and make other people look scummy. It's not a foolproof plan.

It's not foolproof but it's completely arbitrary with the OP player list so mafia would have to get lucky. I'm not accepting changes unless it's a flawclaim.

Okay, put Luckyowl as Townlean for me, I literally don't think I've ever seen him read the OP ever.

They also aren't ever mafia...

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@Luckyowl:

Yeah, I'm all in on this. I'm a monk my ability is Atone which allows me to remove curses.

You didn't have to claim that, but...sure. Level up Monk starting Day 2 since you have a headstart.

PPE:

I am a pellucid llama.

Alright. That's actually good to know now because:

Quote from: Luckyowl on February 16, 2021, 06:02:36 pm

NQT flipped a coin. *shrugs*

This is actually neat because Lucky has proven that NO ONE ELSE IS LLAMA.

Yep.

Quote from: webadict on February 16, 2021, 06:03:16 pm

This is actually neat because Lucky has proven that NO ONE ELSE IS LLAMA.

...How this?

NQT gave Lucky a unique species since he didn't pick one, according to him. Thus no other llamas.

I have a 50% chance to self-target. So, if you want Jim to live, I'd suggest having someone else do it.

Okay. We can reorganize the daisy chain so that if mafia decide to kill Jim it'll be harder.

The plan works better with Monk. We can rez everyone back, then vet people by lynching and rezzing them.
I don't see a way for scum to win with The Plan, Using Monks. Can we declare a victory point for town, and play the game without a tedious yet near-certain win based on deterministic mechanics?

True. We can decide to use Monks or Surveyors on Day 2.

Also, no. Even if The Plan fails this is excellent info for scum hunting that will bear fruits for the rest of the game.

@TricMagic:

Seriously. Are there any abilities to bypass protects, let me check real quick.

Sure, somebody could get poisoned or doped on Night 1 (not infected).

But they will know they were poisoned or doped and can claim tomorrow. Thus scum is outed.

This just relies on the town not being stupid. Scum and bad town players will want to cast doubt on this plan because it's really good, hehe.

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@mightymushroom:

There are Flaws that would make some people unable to do their part in the chain for non-alignment reasons.
Going down the list: Minimalist, Hazy, Blinkered(sorta), Lender, Magnetic, Intermittent, Wasteful, Afflicted(potentially), Unreliable, Corrupt, Tricksome.
I find it difficult to believe all of the town started with L1 powers, or advanced powers but missed that entire list.
For the plan to begin to work we would need a mass flawclaim, and I'm not sure I'm comfortable turning this into policy-lynch-the-flaws.

I am 100% willing to claim any flaws if they affect this plan. I just happen to have none that do.

We can simply write down a list of players that can't do this plan because they are unlucky town or mafia.

I agree with Vector:

Quote from: Vector on February 16, 2021, 04:23:55 pm

This seems Not Fun :V

ninja'ed

Too bad.

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@Everyone:

Everyone who disagrees with The Plan must volunteer to get lynched, no backsies

I will vote anybody who opposes The Plan instead of no lynching. If you simply cannot follow the plan then make your voice heard and we will try to work around it. You don't need to claim anything but the flaw that is preventing it. I think that's worth the sacrifice.

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Quote from: ToonyMan on February 16, 2021, 04:12:39 pm

MOD Question:
Spotlight can stack, right? If there's more than one spotlight each one will roll 50% for each action?

Correct.

Excellent.

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PPE:

FLOWERMAIDEN! Assassins, and to a lesser extent Doge and Thieves(On the first time before shields show up) can bypass such actions And level 2 Merchants can give out a Duel ability, which shields would stop from occurring, so you'd protect the mafia.. Monks can also delay an action so this plan has been flaed from the start Toonyman

So what? Mafia need to out themselves to do anything you're mentioning here.

You're mafia or an idiot.

No lynching day 1 offers no info to town.

Wrong. Not in this case, our chance of lynching mafia on Day 2 instead is astronomically higher than today with The Plan.

There are still ways for mafia to mess with us, but I will feel bad if this works out perfectly and I didn't notice before the game started.

If you already have a shield from Night 0 or if you're an Antmen that's fine, don't stray from the plan still.

TricMagic Sell Shield ToonyMan
ToonyMan Sell Shield Caz
Caz Sell Shield FallacyofUrist
FallacyofUrist Sell Shield Vector
Vector Sell Shield Luckyowl
Luckyowl Sell Shield Secretdorf
Secretdorf Sell Shield mightymushroom
mightymushroom Sell Shield juicebox
juicebox Sell Shield Egan BW
Egan BW Sell Shield Nirur Torir
Nirur Torir Sell Shield webadict
webadict Sell Shield Jim Groovester
Jim Groovester Sell Shield Toaster
Toaster Sell Shield TricMagic

Let's get rich quick boys.

Does anybody see any problems with this?