Bay 12 Games Forum

Unfortunate ending.

Webadict stands up with a rebuttal. ToonyMan counters!

Quote from: Luckyowl on January 14, 2021, 08:30:03 pm

I feel like Webadict planned this somehow...

No, if I had planned this, it would not have involved you. I'd much rather have Caz here. ToonyMan is using a bunch of fallacious arguments and nitpicks to make a case, and in the end, they couldn't even muster that.

I know what you wanted Webadict, it's clear now. You wanted me to vote Luckyowl. You absolutely wanted me to help you kill Luckyowl, and I didn't fall for it.


1. Vector mentored Luckyowl all of BYOR15 and they were town. I don't want town to lose because somebody I think is likely town is making mistakes. I'm being critical of everyone's play.
2. Not the same. I was 100% sure NQT was town and was trying to cause a mislynch.
Here I was mostly sure Webadict was mafia, but was still incredibly anxious after taking the plunge.
3. I don't know what you mean here?
4. I wanted Luckyowl to elaborate why they hammered Caz.
5. I'm willing to guess TricMagic had no idea you were going to bus him. I pointed out how suspicious your vote swapping was between the two of you.
Luckyowl, you nearly died there. Webadict probably wanted to get a townie on the lynch as well which is why he goaded he would hammer you after.
6. But I never voted Luckyowl because he listened to my advice.
And afterwards, I let Luckyowl decide if he wanted to vote TricMagic or Caz because I was more confident they were town from that. Reason #4 in my case is one of the biggest reasons why I thought you were the flagbearer busser and not Luckyowl. It's so damning.
7. What? I trusted Luckyowl more than TricMagic at that point. TricMagic was clearly going for the easy kill as lazy scum.
8. I regret voting Caz before they said anything. I was busy this morning and didn't expect a 2 hour hammer with Caz literally never posting.
9. The fact you suspect Luckyowl so hard this time is suspicious itself, Webadict.
And it's true. I was reasonably convinced Caz was the flagbearer and that we totally owned the mafia, however I really did want to hear from Caz. That's why I asked them for their opinions at the start of Day 2.
Webadict encouraged the mislynch.
10. Scum should reasonably believe they'll be vengekilled back for hammering. You knew there was no vengekill so there's no such fear. That's my reasoning.
11. Luckyowl voting himself is evidence that he's town. I am also town. So yes, logically you're scum.

You basically forced ToonyMan's hand. Additional time would have eventually shown you were Town, especially since I was attempting to dig further into it. I did not need to push for a vote because additional information would not have been detrimental to me. ToonyMan made an entire case on me without voting. The goal was for you to vote me without having to look suspicious, and so they could hammer. Since ToonyMan couldn't sucker you into voting me, they waited until I came up with statements that would incriminate me, or get you to do it for them. In the end, they couldn't wait anymore. That's what happens when you have to fabricate a reason to vote in order to avoid the Townies finding each other, right ToonyMan?

I had to vote and be correct. Now it's Luckyowl's turn to vote and be correct. I didn't like the bickering between the two of you and wanted to make the rest of the day clear, even if it meant me costing the game. It was scary, but I managed to vote the mafia after thinking about it.

Quote from: webadict on January 14, 2021, 07:24:27 pm

Are we really going to lose because you can't identify Scumowl?

I've never seen Luckyowl as mafia.

To be clear here, what I'm saying is that I don't know what mafia!Luckyowl is because I haven't seen Luckyowl as mafia before. I'm not saying that I've seen Luckyowl as town this whole time. Even when I voted Webadict there was a small chance I felt that I was wrong.

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Yeah, might as well vote ToonyMan. He seem more scummier when you point all that out. Especially when he forced it down on to me again. Got anything else? ToonyMan?

Luckyowl, you're confirmed town again. Can you please act better? I agree with Webadict at least that you're doing the same song and dance as last lylo and it's frustrating. I'm restraining myself because I have much harsher things I want to say, but I really want you and me (and Caz) to win this.

When Webadict comes back he's going to vote me and try to convince you why I'm mafia. I will try my best to refute every claim he makes. It's up to you (again).

*opens eyes after wincing*

...So I take the lack of quickhammer means I'm right?

Yup, my hammer post said it all. I thought you, me and Web were town. Because I never thought a mafia would out their own teammates. Which I assume is the typical strategy for vengeful mafia? So I was right. I caught two mafia with my crazy play in day 1.

Careful now, don't get too full of yourself, we haven't won yet.

ToonyMan: I don't like how you distance yourself. You, Web, and Tric were willing to vote me off. Did you forget about that?

Luckyowl, I've never voted you this game. I had to threaten a vote since you were refusing to unvote yourself.

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More later...

Three figures stand, one is a bussing flagbearer, but who?

Let the deduction battle begin.

I am 80% sure that Webadict is the flagbearer. Here is my case:

1. If Luckyowl is the flagbearer, they voted themselves and had no fear of dying. Maybe they would as a mafioso, but not flagbearer.
2. Webadict and TricMagic were both willing to lynch Luckyowl, who they knew to be a self-voting townie. Webadict shows doubt of Luckyowl's alignment even though his Day 1 play seems about the same? It was only cut short by scum!Me last time.
3. Webadict hammers TricMagic, he has no reason to worry because he's bussing TricMagic.
4. Luckyowl CHOSE to lynch TricMagic over Caz. I gave Luckyowl my word that I would vote TricMagic or Caz with them, they chose TricMagic who was a mafioso. This makes absolutely no sense as the flagbearer and I don't believe Luckyowl is wise enough as a mafia player to pull this off.
5. What Webadict says at the start of Day 3:

I'll be honest and say I wasn't expecting that.

That's almost exactly what I said at the start of Day 2 in Vengeful Mafia 12.5:

Okay. That wasn't what I expected, but it worked out.

I was mafia in that game.

So let's summarize. I don't believe Luckyowl the flagbearer could be real, his actions make no sense.
On the other hand, Webadict the flagbearer seems to fit perfectly.

Counterpoints:
1. I really wish Luckyowl didn't quickhammer Day 2 away. I'm pretty sure we still would have lynched Caz, but I've lost a bit of confidence in my suspicion of Webadict because of your actions. Please help us win the game if you're town.
2. What I find most odd is that Webadict is pushing me as "obvTown" and not working together with TricMagic, but this could be buddying strategy so that I vote Luckyowl.


What do you think guys? I am completely open to your thoughts.

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PPE:

To be honest. I was very convince Caz was the mafia.

Convinced enough to not even hear them out?

So I think Webadict is scum. His behavior is lot different than usual in this game around. He seems a little bit more distance where as in my first mafia game he was a lot more active.

I agree, but why exactly?

I have a moment to spare.

I'll respond to everything once I'm back fully but there's one thing I want addressed:

Luckyowl, why the fuck did you hammer Caz before he could say anything? I want you to explain, in detail, why exactly you thought a two hour Caz-less Day 2 was a good idea.

Caz