Bay 12 Games Forum

@TricMagic:

I can answer the question of the badge seller. So long as I am alive new stock will be added each phase. I didn't expect everyone to instantly get 100 pons though, otherwise I would have picked a different badge to sell. Specifically the No Bonk Badge which causes kills you do to fail.

Why didn't you pick the No Bonk Badge in the first place?

Also, you turned onto me pretty quickly Toony

Did I? I can only recall finding you scummy and evasive.

---

@Luckyowl:

Quote from: TricMagic on December 26, 2020, 04:22:07 pm

Quote from: Luckyowl on December 26, 2020, 04:16:09 pm

Juicebox: I understand my playstyle is weird. But you really have to trust me("he said trust me!, he's scum!). I got some townsread on a few. But, I'm not really good at the whole argument and debating. What I'm really looking forward is catching the scum through mechanics than words. And looking at my roles I'm confidence on catching the Mafia next night.  I just need to find my fellow townies so we can work together.  Right now, I'm extending my trust on Nirur Torir, and ToonyMan. I still have a day action and hopefully out of the three that I trust will make use of my day action. If I'm to die right here.

Really don't know what to say to this other than Why? Given that two actions seem to have gone off already I'm hoping there aren't any more.

I haven't done any action yet and my action is more of a Support action.

Oookay...

---

@NJW2000:

In any case: IcyTea claims the PMs weren't even sent at the same time, rather at least a couple of minutes apart. There's definitely the possibility that heydude was sent his even earlier. Also, even if IcyTea can be considered to have 100% confirmed that heydude was completely truthful about the times, the following logic holds

I think I can see what you're saying. Let me try to break this down:

Case 1:
1. Heydude is the contract sender
2. Heydude sends a contract to IcyTea and then claims he was targeted as well
3. Heydude fakes a contract that incriminates IcyTea, nearly getting him modkilled
4. IcyTea obviously calls him out for lying
5. Heydude backs down off IcyTea

I think this is more likely than Case 2. Heydude could be town or mafia here, but I don't believe this right now.

Case 2:
1. The contract sender is someone else, possibly on a scum team with Heydude
2. Heydude "receives" the contract earlier than he claims, possibly coordinates with his buddies first
3. Heydude pretends to flip out and creates a fake PM that incriminates IcyTea, nearly getting him modkilled
4. IcyTea also claims to have received a contract, obviously calls Heydude out for lying, is able to verify the contents
5. Heydude backs down off IcyTea

This only makes sense if Heydude is scum, but I don't believe this is true either. It implies Heydude and the contract sender are on the same team, and it makes their actions baffling just to take down IcyTea, who was already a lynch candidate.

So Toonyman, why is rapidly sharing information someone else has anyway indicative that the sharer is town?

My impression from Heydude's panicking is that he didn't know anyone else had that information and wanted to help town ASAP, did you know?

---

@FallacyofUrist:

Jim Groovester, ToonyMan, 4maskwolf, I also have my eyes on y'all.

I was also fried today. I assume this was your doing. I don't know what this entails but we shall see.

Oddly enough though, even though the Tric train is biggest right now, only my vote on him has substance behind it. Leafsnail's vote on him was an RVS vote and Toony / Vector's votes barely had justification behind it at all.

Bite me.

---

@dolores:

ToonyMan: what's your position on the alignments of dolores and ICT? Why have you dropped the strand of ICT self-voting in RVS that made you want to go after him? Why aren't you voting for me, is just because you feel very strongly that TricMagic needs to be lynched?

I've come to the conclusion that we don't agree on a metaplay level, and I don't think your scum hunting has stood out as bad so far so whatever.
IcyTea stopped voting himself so I'm a bit happy about that too, but I don't believe their alignment one way or the other yet.

'Scum' players (4maskwolf, Leafsnail, TricMagic, ToonyMan): it'd help a lot if you could post a set of articulated reads, particularly 4mask/Leaf/Tric since I don't know what you're thinking and where your opinions are at in the game so far.

Sure.

4maskwolf - can't say
Leafsnail, he's being way too quiet, I can confirm this is a scumtell of his
TricMagic, survivor at best, incredibly unhelpful, wants IcyTea dead for his own benefit

Some other thoughts I don't know where to put:
Jim Groovester is being very laaazy which I think is a scumtell of his
Luckyowl strikes me as newbie town, after playing with them in Bastard Paranormal 3
Juicebox feels like 4maskwolf to me right now, don't know

Toaster and Vector haven't pressured me at all, but I also agree with their points, unsure of them.

Quote from: ToonyMan on December 26, 2020, 12:29:22 pm

Is...is everyone jesters? Holy shit.

Is this your claim post?

No. I'm annoyed by the amount of openly anti-town behavior.

Is...is everyone jesters? Holy shit.

I don't know what was posted, but I think if Heydude changed enough in the quote it's reasonable to assume it could be real or he's faking it. In other words everything is cool. It would be lame of Webadict to modkill him over this.

@dolores:

FoU is already hot and if they just stopped posting altogether there's a high chance that they would get lynched. But I don't actually especially think that FoU is scum, though lurking is within his scum meta if I'm remembering this right (I'd need to reread their games including more recent ones before I'd be at all happy with joining or starting a lynch over this).

FallacyofUrist

Quote from: FallacyofUrist on December 25, 2020, 04:30:22 pm

IcyTea31, just for the sakes of making there be three votes on someone instead of two and making people react.

What a great post, really finds the scum.
What happened to your case on Vector?

Which is it? You're voting FoU but don't think they're scum?

---

@Luckyowl:

With that out of the way. Because IcyTea31 opened with that really cool overly confidence self-voting.  I'm going to say IcyTea31 is townie and is the only I trust so far.

So who's scum?

@IcyTea:

I'm still voting myself

IcyTea, IcyTea, IcyTea. Why did you reveal your nefarious plot now? Luckyowl hasn't even posted yet. Why should town listen to anything an unjustified self-voter has to say?

---

@NJW2000:

Toonyman:Why do you doubt that dolores' [REDACTED] ability is the scumkill? Why did you feel the need to say so?

Quote from: ToonyMan on December 25, 2020, 07:53:04 am

Quote from: NJW2000

it would be hilarious if the [REDACTED] ability Dolores is allowed to use was the scumkill.

I doubt it.

I'm guessing. Your general musing is a guess too, no? I'm not going to hide my thoughts if I read something I want to point out.

---

@FallacyofUrist:

IcyTea31, just for the sakes of making there be three votes on someone instead of two and making people react.

What is this? That's not scum hunting FoU!

---

@Tricmagic:

As a question to everyone, why would you want the badge being sold? For me it's mostly to avoid being roleblocked when I need to do something.

As that would reveal parts of my role, I'm not commenting.

---

@Webadict:
Are there other badges for sale? Can we see them?

Unvote Caz.

@dolores:

Quote from: ToonyMan on December 24, 2020, 07:19:22 pm

Getting voted and lynched wouldn't count as being targeted by an ability though right?

That's my understanding. I'm unlynchable though.
(me, the player, not anything mechanically relevant concept)
Like I said to ICT, my main mechanical fear is external vote manipulation which I don't necessarily have the ability to prevent. I don't think that many townies will be talked into seriously committing to a dolores lynch.

You're undisputedly pro-town, but don't believe in vote pressure?

Right, so what's this right after:

FallacyofUrist
I kinda dislike unvoting caz here because I don't think their behavior to date is acceptable, but I also think a resting vote is going to bother FoU a lot more

You're voting FoU to pressure them.

Quote from: NJW2000 on December 24, 2020, 08:08:05 pm

What's going on with "Leave Comments"?

I can't use it though, and can't be targeted, so unless the the town alignment wincon that I share is changed or my revealed ability is targeted by name and changed it can only impact my game indirectly.
If it can be used to kill Wacky And Hilarious Hijinks, that's probably part of a possible route for an all-players win (I have an extra and very easy wincon that is blocked by it, so if someone can pass around copies of my role with the action-blocker removed it shouldn't be too hard to organize).

And how would we go about removing your action-blocker to do this? By targeting you?

If you take off my shackles though I'm just going to fuck off into the winners lounge at the earliest opportunity rather than help anyone else, though.

Yeah...go away.

Quote from: Toaster on December 24, 2020, 11:35:04 pm

Interesting.  What do you believe in?  How do you get information out of someone recalcitrant, if not pressure?

There's no way of getting information out of someone recalcitrant. You can always just not post, and it's impossible to really draw any kind of conclusions from that; eventually all you know is that the person isn't contributing to the town. Ideally, I'd have some indicator that the person doesn't have an interest in doing so, like a bad reply to a post where they're accused of (active) lurking from before they go radio silent, which increasingly helps me convince other players to vote for them as it goes unresolved but does not actually tell me any more about their alignment than it did the first time they posted the response.

And...? Not posting is a completely possible and even effective scum tactic. This is especially true past Day 1.

Quote from: Toaster on December 24, 2020, 11:35:04 pm

Really?  You don't think it's possible for a scum player to accidentally out their buddy or reveal a non-mafia through excessive force?  I have pegged a townie before by seeing a mafioso tunnel down said townie with silly arguments.  You don't ever look for that?

Not at all. This is pure WIFOM. You're basing your reads of other players on the posts of someone with an intrinsic information advantage they want to deceive you about. To give a trivial example, if there was a formula for acting out a sequence where poor arguments are used to attack a player and so subsequently on your lynch the town accepted that that person was probably town, in any mountainous game with more than one mafscum you could act out this scenario with one of your partners, get lynched, and then let them coast to the win on the pro-town-appearance of your act.
I'm hoping to discern the motivations of other players and then judge what alignment that player would have those motivations as. I don't learn anything about a player's motivations from the content of another player (except where it provokes a reaction from the examinee).

No. No.

Unless you're some lame-o who doesn't read their role PM before posting, everyone knows their alignment and possible scum buddies when the game starts. The fact is:
1. Town don't know anybody else's alignment
2. Mafia know their buddies' alignments

People will act differently whether they're town or mafia. Disputing this is the same as denying the game of mafia itself. The challenge is for the mafia players to pass off as town.

---

@NJW2000:

Toonyman: how do you feel about dolores not being targetable? Angry? Envious? Unimpressed? Relieved? Strangely aroused?

Aroused.

Everyone: What's going on with "Leave Comments"?

Not sure. If it can convert alignments then town -> something else is possible, but mafia -> something else likely isn't, and especially not mafia -> town. So I think alignment shifts would be extremely bad and chaotic for town.

Webadict didn't respond to my mod question so obviously it's in the dark.

General musings: the comments thing is freaking me out, there's already two pages since the start of the game despite many people not having posted yet, and it would be hilarious if the [REDACTED] ability Dolores is allowed to use was the scumkill.

I doubt it.

---

@Leafsnail:

Merry 1:30am on Christmas day, everyone! I would sincerely like to know how everyone's Christmas is/was this year.

Quote from: dolores on December 24, 2020, 06:45:24 pm

Leafsnail: I've got it on good authority (my own) that there are wincons in this game besides basic factional ones. How important do you think semi-bastard strats like converting everyone to the same cult and having a huge group/all players win together are likely to be in the game?

My guess would be not very. I assume most players have picked a high level of Shenanigans and that will probably make it very difficult to form any reliable plan at night. That's both due to town roles potentially having uncontrollable elements and the possibility of unclaimed scum roles falling outside of any reasonable expectation. That kind of breaking strategy is much more likely to happen in a game with known or at least relatively sane roles.

Hohoho! Yes I will post on Christmas morning.

So, who's scum? Do you think scum are more likely to have a higher shenanigan number?

---

@Toaster:

LuckyOwl:  Did you kill and eat IronyOwl?  I keep getting confused.

You won't believe how many times I typed IronyOwl in Bastard Paranormal 3.

---

@IcyTea:

Quote from: ToonyMan on December 24, 2020, 07:19:22 pm

There's a few reasons. None of them are "because you're town". I'm going to assume bad play for now though.

It's clear we've played in very different metagames lately, for you to make that analysis, so I'd like to understand you better. Name those reasons.

1. Voting yourself because you're a jester.
2. Voting yourself because your best interests are in survival, aka "not being a jester vote self" gambit.
3. Voting yourself because you're not town.

Seriously why? If you think good town play is to reactionarly catch scum then you're wrong.

---

@Caz:

6 pages already and this game looks to be unpleasant.

It's a 16 player BYOR, what did you expect?

Quote from: IcyTea31 on December 25, 2020, 05:39:19 am

Quote from: Caz on December 25, 2020, 05:15:12 am

6 pages already and this game looks to be unpleasant.

Does that mean you're not going to play for the town wincon? Because that's a thing you do by posting insightful things in the day, not by complaining about the high player count forcing players to cast their nets wide.

yeah i was working on a post but if everyone's going to be like this the entire game from 3am xmas day then definitely not interested.
replace out

Not all of us are crazy. I'm sure people will give you a break for not posting much on Christmas.

Mod Question:
Can "Leave Comment" affect a player's role or alignment enough to change what they are? Or is it purely player's leaving their thoughts on other players?

---

@Caz:

I'm already confused by my role ;_;

I think you're playing dumb. Why act incompetent unless you're anti-town?

---

@Jim Groovester:
Where's Sigma? Do you think you'll survive Day 1 and Night 1? Which one is more likely and why?

@Toaster:
Is ignoring the lynch candidate during the day a scum tell?

@dolores:
Do you think you have a chance of winning this game? Do you think you'll survive to the end as well?

@TricMagic:
Riddle me this, if you had a day ability would you use it Day 1?