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227
DF General Discussion / Re: Future of the Fortress
« on: April 16, 2018, 09:00:37 am »
I was thinking along the lines of materwork-loss-freakout that's already in the game. If you make one masterwork and it's destroyed, it's the end of the world. If you've made 50 thousand legendary roasts and the haulers allow one to rot you may think twice before randomly throwing a nearby anvil out of pique. Stress needs to have similar, but obviously not identical, mechanisms. And not a catch-all "Doesn't really care about anything anymore" solution either. As Tarn already pointed out, player feedback will be key.
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DF General Discussion / Re: Future of the Fortress
« on: April 16, 2018, 08:49:47 am »
I think the key will be allowing stress levels attached to a particular event to be mutable. If you're a member of a society in a brutal world where war is rampant you should probably be more emotionally resilient to death. A civilization probably wouldn't last long otherwise. Familiarity lending a certain emotional complacency could be part of it.
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DF Suggestions / Re: Its not a bug its a feature - Impossible mandates
« on: April 09, 2018, 08:30:12 am »
I'd like impossible or ridiculous mandates be reserved for the insane or someone using them as a cynical device to further some agenda, and more rarely for the very stupid or vain. Large walls across entire borders comes to mind.
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DF General Discussion / Re: Future of the Fortress
« on: March 29, 2018, 05:45:40 am »Spoiler (click to show/hide)
That's a good point about purely mundane worlds having only humans and thus necessitating that they be playable in fortmode.
It probably should have occurred to me before I asked the question. I guess as ever Toady will have to stay disciplined and be wary of chasing down thousands of related tangents.
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DF General Discussion / Re: Future of the Fortress
« on: March 28, 2018, 04:50:57 am »
With minor modding the current game allows fort mode to be played with humans, goblins, elves and even kobolds. Presumably this hasn't made it into vanilla because they aren't as feature complete as dwarves and not yet differentiated enough. Is the work around the myth generator likely to change this? I assume some work will need to go into shoe-horning randomly generated high-magic-world races into fortress mode and am wondering if you think this will end up incorporating the original races as playable in vanilla at the same time or if they will wait for their own specific releases focused on the features you want present before making them playable?
232
DF Suggestions / Re: Lifespan fuels and limits magic
« on: March 07, 2018, 11:17:09 pm »How does this work with undead?
It's the same considerations as for immortal creatures.
Another problem is that people do things that effect their 'natural' lifespan. How can we sacrifice a specific number of years when we might get extra years (on average) by eating a healthier diet and doing more supersize in the future.
Add the bonus "healthy living" years (assuming that is something added to the game and not simple abstracted by the difference between Minimum Age of Death and Maximum Age of Death) back to the lifespan, or do you mean a problem I'm not understanding?
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DF Suggestions / Lifespan fuels and limits magic
« on: March 07, 2018, 10:05:53 am »
Thematic option for magical world generation: casting a spell removes time from the total years you have left to live.
http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Age says "...the moment of death-by-old-age of a creature is stored from birth." So I assume that when you create Urist McAdventurer the game immediately decides how many years they have to live before dying of old age. My suggestion is that for a world with this magic system, casting a spell simply subtracts an amount of time from the max age value that is already being tracked by the game. In effect your remaining lifespan is the available fuel/mana/reagent/whatever-you-want-to-call-it used to work magic.
Thoughts and ideas in no particular order
http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Age says "...the moment of death-by-old-age of a creature is stored from birth." So I assume that when you create Urist McAdventurer the game immediately decides how many years they have to live before dying of old age. My suggestion is that for a world with this magic system, casting a spell simply subtracts an amount of time from the max age value that is already being tracked by the game. In effect your remaining lifespan is the available fuel/mana/reagent/whatever-you-want-to-call-it used to work magic.
Thoughts and ideas in no particular order
■ It curbs the ubiquity of magic in the world. The more powerful the spell cast, the more time you lose from your max age. The weakest cantrip could cost minutes or hours, a very strong spell could wipe off a decade. Truly awesome magic might kill you instantly. Or it could be random for all magic (but too much random cost would limit plot hooks, I think).
■ If you don't have enough years left to live you can be stopped from casting the spell, you could cast the spell and die, or you can just die without casting.
■ Immortal creatures. Options include locking them out completely from age-burning magic. Losing their immortality if casting spells and then aging like mortal creatures with a max age. Having a certain number of years they "use up" until they can't work magic anymore while they wait for their years to "refill" (mana bar). Or immortality could just grant unlimited age-burning magic, potentially making immortal creatures powerful magic users relative to mortals.
■ Access to certain spells could depend on race (and/or lots of other things). Lets say that immortal creatures don't lose their immortality and can cast as much as they want. That doesn't necessarily make an elf super powerful compared to mortals if all the elf can cast is "raise garden bed" compared to the mortals library of death-dealing magic. In other words, being a creature with a greater max age doesn't necessarily mean you are automatically a stronger magic user compared to a shorter lived creature because it could still depend on which spells you have access to. Having said that, many of the immortal or long-lived creatures are often supposed to be more magically powerful, like dragons etc.
■ Using magic could visibly age you prematurely in line with the amount of lifespan you're sacrificing. A gratuitous magic user of 30 could have the decrepit body of a centenarian. This could work as a tell to let you know when to ease up on the magic missiles ("You look like an irresponsible magic user indeed." "I'm six!"). Sacrificing physical strength/health in order to gain magic power is an established trope. Or instead of visible aging and the accompanying physical weakness that entails, you might change in a more eldritch fashion. You know, weird eyes, scaly skin, growing extra or monstrous appendages which could make you more physically powerful during your shortened life, or subject to prejudice or a myriad other consequences. Or maybe there's no indication at all as to how much of your lifespan you've burned up, and you look and feel exactly your current age, despite the fact that you will croak in 5 minutes from old age despite being 15.
■ Magic that relies on lifespan naturally lends itself to individuals trying to cheat their way around it. So evil beings might search for/discover a way to use magic by sacrificing another creature's years rather than their own. It could be a 1:1 ratio, or less efficient. A less efficient ratio, like using up someones entire 50 years granting you free use of 5, could encourage industrial levels of sacrifice to fuel the spell casting of a tyrannical sorcerer-king or despotic theocracy etc. Other plot hooks include a civilizations rulers grooming a caste of citizens to act as disposable life batteries for use of the ruling class.
■ Instead of sacrificing someones else's years at time of casting, you may be able to leech another's life span to replace your own after the fact of casting. This could work as a world's version of vampires, or in addition to them.
■ It doesn't all have to be evil sacrifice. You're heroic and noble companion might sacrifice their years to empower you to defeat the demon you couldn't otherwise challenge.
■ Magic item creation could also require life span sacrifice which would put downward pressure on the number of powerful magical items in a given world. It might also be a cost in dwarf fortress strange-mood artifacts (although that'd probably be unpopular with most players, I guess). Alternatively, or even additionally, using a magical item, or using it with it's magical properties in effect, would cost you lifespan in the same way as casting magic. There's huge scope for options in this, like using a magic sword being "free" as long as you're regularly killing things so that it saps their life force rather than your own. Or if you're using a sword in strict accordance with some embedded criteria (only killing goblins under moonlight while standing on one leg and whistling) you don't use up your life.
■ This magic system could lend itself to "Oh well, I'm gonna die anyway so I may as well press the Armageddon-spell button now" situations which may or may not be a bad thing. There are lots of ways to counter that, though. Armageddon-level spells requiring a very long casting time is an easy example, so you can't cast one because you've just been disemboweled and max life span is no longer important to you.
■ There's no reason this magic system can't sit alongside others in a world. Although if it isn't relatively powerful in comparison to less punishing means it'd likely be obsolete, which is not necessarily a bad thing.
■ How to train and gain mastery of this type of magic raises important questions. Do you have to spend some life span to learn or practise to cast the spells? The stronger the spells, the more life you've sacrificed learning them? That would mean that the most powerful casters are also the ones with the least time left to pursue their agendas. Or maybe the more practise done or expertise you've gained lessons the age cost? Or maybe the most desperate people are the ones who choose to delve deeply into this magic. Someone vowing revenge on an enemy they can't hope to defeat normally might decide its worth sacrificing their life to learn and use the magic to achieve the desired outcome. Lots of plot hooks could depend on how you learn and gain power in this type of magic. Of course, learning it could just be via full revelation and free with the only cost being the actual use, and that'd create a different world.
■ Problem: how does a randomized system, generating randomized magic, decide how powerful/utilitarian a spell is and thus give it a proper lifespan cost? Leaving aside balance during actual play, all sorts of world generation bugs could happen if important historical figures are dramatically shortening their lives in silly ways. I don't think it'd be insurmountable for Toady, but I don't think it'd be trivial either. I doubt it'd be a implementation problem unique to this system of magic though, if it even is a problem at all.
234
DF General Discussion / Re: Future of the Fortress
« on: March 04, 2018, 05:13:21 am »Thanks for the answers, Toady!Something that struck me earlier thinking of the myth and magic stuff, and as far as I can remember hasn't been officially talked about (someone please point me in the right direction if it has):
Do the plans for permanent changes to occur to myth-level elements during regular play include changes to races? It's a fairly common fantasy theme after all to have races be cursed and/or corrupted and become dark elves and whatnot.
During the GDS myth talk, there was a piece where a god cursed a group of fey to become demons as a punishment, and I think I remember seeing something about cursing dwarves to become goblins as well. I could see something like this happen where instead of using an existing race, it would derive the new race from the old.
Further to this, the Foul Blendec origin story shows that permanent change/corruption/degeneration of races is something they'd like to explore. http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/story/tt_forest_befouled.html
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DF General Discussion / Re: Murdercrow and Other Travesties (art thread)
« on: March 01, 2018, 09:47:32 am »
This is fantastic
Thanks for sharing.
Thanks for sharing.
236
DF Suggestions / Re: i got some new vermin ideas for dwarf fortress.
« on: February 27, 2018, 08:45:39 am »
Huh. I always read it as Glump-wrong. Only now do I see it as glum-prong. Thank you for opening my eyes, SS. Also, Op, Toady tries to stay away from naming things after real-world place names where possible. So the Suriname toad would probably not be called a Suriname toad if included. It would be called the backward-birthing-toad maybe (I didn't look it up, took your word for it).
237
DF Suggestions / Re: VR Support
« on: February 27, 2018, 08:36:02 am »
I'm trying to decide whether asking a question in the suggestions forum is comparable to or the opposite of making a suggestion in the future of the fortress thread.
Anyway...VR? Sure. Everything is part of the master plan, depending on how much you are willing to read into obsolete dev notes.
Anyway...VR? Sure. Everything is part of the master plan, depending on how much you are willing to read into obsolete dev notes.
238
DF Adventure Mode Discussion / Re: I'm. No. Lady. You male chauvinist PIG!
« on: February 27, 2018, 08:04:23 am »
Posting to chuckle.
239
DF General Discussion / Re: Future of the Fortress
« on: December 19, 2017, 08:02:45 am »The long-term (as in, 20 years) plan is for almost nothing to be abstracted, so there's that.
I don't think that is true.
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DF General Discussion / Re: Future of the Fortress
« on: November 20, 2017, 04:45:03 am »
He's stated that he reads at least the opening post of each thread in the Suggestions forum. I don't see a reason to doubt him. I think it would be a bit much to expect him to reply to each suggestion, even the ones that aren't iterations.